The Pope is dead

I thought he was getting better and was out and about.

Jaydee killed him.

They need to investigate Jaydine.

He wasn't hot like Pope John Paul. Now that was a pope.

How creepy that it happened just after his meeting with JD Vance.

He also met with king Charles and Camilla recently.

This conclave could be quite interesting. Did Francis name enough progressive/reform-minded cardinals to tip the balance?

Have Harry and Meghan released a statement yet?

Conclave!

JD, the blessing, and the drive in the pope mobile around St. Peter's were all too taxing for a convalescing 88 year old. They had to take extraordinary measures to keep him alive in a month long hospitization. Perhaps he knew it was time and wanted to see humanity (the crowd, not Vance) one last time.

He just did Easter???

He had a great Mass…

I'm afraid of what Trump’s statement will contain. I can't wait to see who the U.S. delegation to the funeral will consist of.

R11 God gifted him his angel wings on this blessed weekend.

Do you Pope out at parties?

Are you unPopeular?

Susan Dey's Easter Monday Egg Roll has been canceled since the Pope Francis was due to play the Easter Bunny at the annual event.

While the Vatican investigates the cause of death, JD Vance has been named a 'person of interest.'

There is a possibility Vatican authorities could send Vance to El Salvador's notorious CECOT, where migrants from the U.S. are currently being held.

I truly thought Beiber was next.

His altar boys had hot asses, but it couldn't keep him alive forever.

Is this the Official The Pope Is Dead Thread? Because it doesn't follow the usual script.

Well, I'm glad his pain is finally over & they didn't try to unnaturally sustain his life (to the extent he "naturally" lived before). May his memory be a blessing!

And now on to the funeral! I hope the Vatican pulls out the stops, particularly now that Easter is over.

As always, the conclave is gonna be a blast to shitpost through here on DL!

The main thing I'll remember him for is organising a bussing campaign in my country to tank the SSM referendum, so it was defeated with an even bigger margin that the first one under Benedict. I'm not celebrating right now like the TradCaths are because I just don't give a shit anymore either way.

I fully expect someone way worse than him to take his place, however. It would be completely in line with the zeitgeist.

R11 yes he did the Easter mass but he looked like death warmed up.

Glad he made it through Easter. RIP.

God needed another octogenarian.

r24 He didn't do the Easter mass, they just wheeled him out to greet the crowd. Lord knows what drugs they pumped him with just for that short moment.

The coolest moment is from "Habemus papam!" to the reveal of who actually got the gig. In that short period, less than a minute, so many different futures for the Church are possible all at once.

Needless to say, how long the conclave lasts will in itself be very revealing as well.

R26 I know I watched, but he did the urbi et orbi that's what I meant.

On his way out he gave the couchmolester a middle finger

He showed far, far more humanity days before his death that a sizable number of those in Dump's orbit have shown in their entire lives.

[quote]I'm afraid of what Trump’s statement will contain.

We know whatever he says will be an embarrassment. Something along the lines of: "Today, we mourn the Pope's passing. I could've saved him if I was there. No one else, just me. Too bad the radical left news media will cover that more than the daily accomplishments of the greatest administration in U.S. history. For he record, the Pope never beat me in ratings."

^"The Pope called me just the other day and he said 'you're so right about the bond market. I made a killing last week. Thank for making me the richest pope ever.' I'll bet no Pope ever called Sleepy Joe and told him that he made him richer".

Europe's already lost and to a certain extent Brazil as well, so it'll be interesting to see if the next pope is picked to shore up Africa mainly.

Given MAGA Catholics' opinion of "progressive" Pope Francis, I think his statement (on or off the record) might be a little more pointed.

But on the other hand, Francis never seemed to get under Dump's skin like many others have.

Watching the conclaves is so much fun, so I hope they pick someone old. We're probably never going to live through another one again if they pick someone in his 50s.

Thanks, Pope!

[quote] How creepy that it happened just after his meeting with JD Vance.

He realized that Satan is real and that any further battles need to waged outside this mortal realm.

It takes ages to bury a pope because of all the world leaders attending, so the conclave is some time away still.

Anything can happen in these popeless times, between the death of the old one and the election of a new one.

It is curious that with all the chaos, JD chose to visit the Pope who was disliked by right-wing Catholics & of course loathed by the fundies. It's almost like he's trying to distance himself from the shitshow at home...hmm.....

They've now seen what a reactionary pope and a liberal (lol) pope can do. So this time around, they're going to pick a pure centrist to hedge their bets, mark me.

Trump just issued an executive order eliminating DEI from the conclave. “While the Pope does wear a dress, no women, and no blacks,” declared Trump, shall be the next papal leader.

Do we have smoke yet??????

The CIA has already been activated in an effort to elected a MAGA pope.

Everything Trump related is doomed. . Even the Pope couldn’t avoid the curse.

[quote] mark me

With a Sharpie?

The name the new pope chooses for himself will be extremely revealing and will offer us a glimpse into the future direction of the Church even before he steps onto the balcony for the first time.

There's going to be so many conspiracies about this given the timing. Not that I think there is anything to that. Pope was old and had been critically ill. Just yet another thing that has worked out in Trump's favor. Grr.

It's gonna be a real mindfuck for some of our older DLers when they pick a pope who's younger than them.

R36 The Church has nothing but disgust for gay people. It subjugates women. It is where children are raped.

Why would any intelligent person fangurl this repressive homophobic garbage?

r51 I agree with everything you said, but I still enjoy the conclave circus. The drama, the speculation, the pageantry of it all...

JD Vance killed the Pope!

[quote] There's going to be so many conspiracies about this given the timing. Not that I think there is anything to that. Pope was old and had been critically ill. Just yet another thing that has worked out in Trump's favor. Grr.

He was recovering from pneumonia, but he certainly didn't need the added stress of being pressured to meet with that chucklefuck. If JD had a soul, he would feel guilty right now. But that's obviously not the case.

My guess is that the next Pope will be an American. Most likely Sean O'Malley.

That may be why Trump sent JD Vance to the Vatican recently. Perhaps, to influence the upcoming vote.

I didn't realize that the United States has the second largest number of Cardinals in the Vatican, behind Italy:

[quote] Currently, there are 17 American cardinals. Of these, 10 are eligible to vote in a papal conclave (meaning they are under 80 years of age). The United States has the largest number of cardinal electors outside of Italy.

Just imagine the influence Trump would have over the Vatican, if O'Malley becomes Pope.

[quote]And now on to the funeral! I hope the Vatican pulls out the stops, particularly now that Easter is over.

Francis is said to have planned for a much simpler funeral than his predecessors, so we'll see if the Vatican follows up on that.

Perdidimus papam!

Give the Pope three days in the tomb and he will be up and walking again.

The case for Jay Dee's canonization has probably already been opened by conservative Americans Catholics, who hated Francis.

Who is 'papabile' or leading candidate to be pope?

Edward Pentin, the National Catholic Register's longtime senior Rome correspondent, released a book in August 2020 called "The Next Pope: The Leading Cardinal Candidates."

In it, he lists 19 cardinals he considers papabile, or "popeable" frontrunners for the role.

Among them, Pentin notes Cardinal Seán Patrick O'Malley, former archbishop of Boston, as a possible choice for the next pope.

O'Malley retired as the Boston's archbishop over the summer, at the age of 80, but has remained on the Pope's Council of Cardinals. If he's still in the running, his age will likely be a point of discussion. The oldest pope on election was Pope Clement X in 1670 at the age of 79.

The other American on Pentin's list is Cardinal Raymond Leo Burke, who was previously archbishop of St. Louis, Missouri.

Cardinals voting in the conclave may not necessarily choose a pope from among those seen as papabile. However, both Pope Francis and Pope Benedict XVI were considered papabile before being chosen, according to many Vatican experts.

How does the conclave process work?

The papal election, which is called the conclave, occurs when the pope resigns or dies and the College of Cardinals selects a new pope.

According to the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, cardinals typically gather 15 to 20 days after a papal vacancy to partake in the conclave process.

The cardinal electors, which consists only of cardinals under the age of 80, vote by secret ballot at the Sistine Chapel. Four rounds of voting take place every day until a candidate receives a majority two-thirds of the vote.

r55 Doubt it, but we'll see. An American pope gives you literally nothing, it's not like there's going to be an explosion of Catholics in the US because of it. No, other "markets" are much more important right now. Also, the Italian cardinals would shut down any such foolishness, I'm certain of it.

[quote]O'Malley retired as the Boston's archbishop over the summer, at the age of 80, but has remained on the Pope's Council of Cardinals. If he's still in the running, his age will likely be a point of discussion. The oldest pope on election was Pope Clement X in 1670 at the age of 79.

Yeah, he's out.

[quote]The other American on Pentin's list is Cardinal Raymond Leo Burke, who was previously archbishop of St. Louis, Missouri.

Never, ever gonna happen. That book was published before Burke's serious drama with the Vatican.

[quote]According to the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, cardinals typically gather 15 to 20 days after a papal vacancy to partake in the conclave process.

Crucial bit of information, so we can unclench for a bit.

[quote]He wasn't hot like Pope John Paul. Now that was a pope.

I assume you mean JP2, who was dreadful.

[quote]we can unclench for a bit

Pics please.

JP2 was indeed dreadful, but he was also kinda handsome when he got elected. I mean, relatively speaking, of course.

We will see if the Romans will continue the teachings of Jesus or return to the era of the Papa Nazi

Ratzenberger is still kicking.

That's the kind of retirement I want.

Oh for chrissakes. Do we have white smoke yet? I turned off the news and put on The Golden Girls.

r67 do you mean Benedict? He died in 2022.

At least he made it through Easter. And he got to see his team win one more World Cup. RIP, Papa Frankie.

Can someone nominate the young priest Edoardo Santini?

He used to work as a bouncer and he admitted to scoring lots of tail back then. It's crazy to think the fucking pope has had more sex than I ever have (I'm a virgin).

On the other hand, it also must be crazy when that random guy you fucked in Buenos Aires that one night becomes pope fifty years later. I mean, what do you even do with that kind of information? Can you genuinely accept that guy as your pope? I'd probably just kill myself.

It was the meeting with JD Vance that killed him.

r71 Yass, an influencer pope for the influencer age!

May he rest in peace?!?

OP, this is Datalounge.

R68 please watch the episode where the Pope comes to town and Sophia steals his ring. Just as a kind of tribute to all things holy on this awful day.

Phew

The Catholic Church is a sick joke. Read ‘In the Closet of the Vatican’ by Frederick Mertel. They’re ALL gay. Toxic, malignant hypocrisy.

Allegedly, his last words were "We were wrong about gay people. They alright."

Datalounge is where I hear breaking news first. Also some of you seem quite knowledgeable about papal politics.

His death following JD Vance's visit is just screaming for an Onion headline.

R79 are there any good gay people? Every bad person every homophobe every hater can’t be as gay as DL claims all the fucking time.

[quote]His death following JD Vance's visit is just screaming for an Onion headline

How about "Eternal Moonshine of the Empty Mind"?

R76, well, he didn’t die in a grease fire. . . .

Both Benedict and Francis spent considerable effort on cleaning out the gay clique from the Vatican, so that's not such an issue as it used to be.

His final act was a huge middle finger to the Dump administration.

NYTimes:

[quote]In his final remarks, Francis focused on a hallmark theme of his papacy: migrants.

JD killing it!

In view of the time of year, should we maybe wait three days before jumping to any conclusions?

A few months ago, I was the OP of the South America Vacation Ideas thread. I leave for Buenos Aires tomorrow.

It’s gonna be a complete shitshow, isn’t it?

The embalming process starts pretty much immediately with popes, so he'll be more formalin than human three days hence.

As a lapsed Catholic, I might start praying for Francis's intercession to do something about the Dump admin.

It's never too soon to rack up miracles for his sainthood cause.

[quote]I leave for Buenos Aires tomorrow. It’s gonna be a complete shitshow, isn’t it?

Coming back certainly may be.

Complete shitshow is pretty much the default state of Buenos Aires, so you'll hardly know the difference.

To answer R7's question:

"As of April 21 there were a total of 252 cardinals, 135 of them cardinal electors under 80. 109 of the electors were appointed by Francis, 22 by his predecessor Benedict and five by John Paul II."

“There can be no peace without freedom of religion, freedom of thought, freedom of expression and respect for the views of others."

r96 is from Francis's Easter address

R95: GOOD.

r96 I've always hated those kinds of vapid statements that have zero to do with how the world actually works. Someone's religious view is that homos should be thrown off rooftops, should that view be respected as well?

Central Europe is going to melt down if we get a black pope (there isn't a Catholic majority in any Eastern European country). My parents laughed at the idea of a black pope when I floated it once, you have no idea how deep the racism goes here.

Test

r100 Poland? Hungary? Croatia? Lithuania?

Poland, Hungary and Croatia are in Central Europe. Lithuania is in Northern Europe.

^^SHE did it!!!^^

That lady was the first thing I thought when I saw the news.

Maybe she was a secret agent!

*In all classifications except in the CIA Factbook, which hasn't been updated since the Cold War.

Pope Francis wasn’t perfect, but he was the best a pope we had in a while in terms of him being human and following the real message of Jesu

R90 why would it be? People are pretty chill about the Pope here

R2 I hope JD catches whatever the Pope had.

Being forced to meet with that asshole was just too much for the guy.

[quote]It takes ages to bury a pope because of all the world leaders attending.

The pope’s death triggered the start of nine days of mourning known as the Novendiales, and the pope must be buried between the fourth and sixth day after death.

The Pope smelled JD Vance.

And then he DIED.

No longer true, sadly

He looked so bloated, kudos to the people who called his imminent death. I think his heart just gave out.

R100 racism? :-)

When I grew up in the church in the 1950s everyone knew that to be a pope you only needed two critical boxes checked. You had to be a Cardinal and an Italian.

Not generally a fan of the Catholic Church, for many reasons.

But this man was perhaps the most decent Pope to serve for some time. Hope it was a gentle passing for him.

[quote] yes he did the Easter mass but he looked like death warmed up.

More like death warming up. Amirite?

Did god smite him for calling gays “fags” in Italian?

[quote] Central Europe is going to melt down if we get a black pope (there isn't a Catholic majority in any Eastern European country). My parents laughed at the idea of a black pope when I floated it once, you have no idea how deep the racism goes here.

On the other hand African Catholics tend to be more conservative.

[quote]R6 He also met with king Charles and Camilla recently.

Right. Those two little Bible thumpers. They really embody the sanctity of marriage.

Don't expect a lot of pomp at the funeral.

[quote]Francis’ time as pope was a groundbreaking one. Women were given voting rights at a key meeting, the Synod of Bishops, he and cracked open the door of the Catholic church to blessing same-sex unions (though it cautioned those blessings would be kept separate from marriage).“We cannot be judges who only deny, push back and exclude,” Francis wrote in 2023.

[quote]At conclave, cardinals under the age of 80 will select the next pope. As of Jan. 22, there were 252 cardinals worldwide—138 of which fit the age requirement. A two-thirds majority of voters is needed to win.

May he RIP.

I may be an atheist, but that doesn’t mean I don’t recognize genuinely good men & women who are REAL Catholics & Christians, & he was one of those who was.

r118 I mean, he was 88. At that age, you don't get smote, you just drop dead.

He is risen!

[quote]On the other hand African Catholics tend to be more conservative.

Yes, that's why they're stuck between a rock and a hard place. Whomever they choose, they're fucked with some segment and in some region.

He died in a millennial year for the church.

[quote] The coolest moment is from "Habemus papam!" to the reveal of who actually got the gig. In that short period, less than a minute, so many different futures for the Church are possible all at once.

It’s like Schrödinger's pope!

[Quote] The name the new pope chooses for himself will be extremely revealing and will offer us a glimpse into the future direction of the Church

I’m hoping he goes for Buttsex I.

[Quote] He died in a millennial year

He’s GOATed. He’s eating. He’s giving fierce poor vibes.

^^^ pope

Believe it or not, but the world is currently not popeless. There are several lesser-known popes running around right now.

[Quote] Lord knows what drugs they pumped him with just for that short moment.

True dat. I hit him with 20ccs of Epinephrine and two Hail Marys and it did the trick.

Pope John Donald I.

R131, I just watched a movie about one!

[quote] Ratzenberger is still kicking.

[quote] do you mean Benedict? He died in 2022.

No, R69. R67 meant John Ratzenberger.

Thanks r135

[quote] I think his heart just gave out.

He just lost the will to live.

Has Dump called for his posthumous excommunication yet?

The lineup!

r139 Ooh, very helpful, thank you!

He was a stupid foot fetisist freak. Props to him for chewing out JD though.

As a lapsed Catholic this guts me. Long live the Jesuits, man. To this day the best teachers I've ever hard. Rebels within that rigid faith.

r139 So two liberals, two moderates, and five conservatives. Great, so much for the liberal Francis appointing 109 out of 135 electors...

Thank you R139; my Pope ranking is as a follows: - Tagle - Turkson - Zuppi

Add to that, they don't look like old corpses like the others, so they'd be: 1. a first from the country 2. (Likely) still alive in 8-10 years

They keep sending us dirty, tired and paunchy Popes.

Is it so impossible to get an attractive slender Pope? Am I reaching for the stars here? No, I don't think so.

[quote]Rebels within that rigid faith.

That's interesting because the Jesuits were set up as a religious order in 1540 as part of the Counter-Reformation, to defend the faith against the Protestants and be obedient to the pope above all else. Huge pain in the ass for European leaders until practically the modern time.

The whole timing of this is weird - dying on Easter??

Seems a bit too convenient. But then again, a lot of older people die around Christmas.

Maybe the stress of it was too much for him. Or maybe it was....MURDAH!

I'm rooting for Cardinal Tagle! We've never had an Asian pope.

Black Africans are incredibly racist towards Asians. And vice versa, of course. So Tagle would come with his own set of issues.

For my money, I would bet for Italian cardinal Parolin. But personally I would vote for the Filipino cardinal Tagle.

I will follow him….

I imagine an African pope would be socially and doctrinally conservative; with that said, I would also like to see conservative American Catholic heads explode.

JAYDINE KILLS POPE

[Quote] a stupid foot fetisist

Ironyproof

Oh, Ann…

Some of those replies on r155. though.

[quote]I think God had more to do with his removal. Hopefully the next one will be a Christian.

Francis had more Christianity in the nail of his little finger than these conservative Catholic fucksticks have in their entire bodies.

I'm very sorry to learn of his death. He was a good man.

Since the majority of those voting were appointed by Francis, don't expect a Ratzinger clone to be selected.

I do wonder about the timing. What time was he last seen yesterday?

Pobrecito.

I grew up in the Catholic church. . My parents dragged my ass to mass every Sunday. As a gay man, it fucked me up. Hard. I'm sad to see this news

Francis seemed cool to begin with. Then he turned into a judgy bitch like all the others. I don't care anymore. It's been a long time since the Church did anything of merit, morally or politically.

Catholics who didn’t approve of Francis’s policies always struck me as weird and stupid. Supposedly, God speaks through the Pope. So you’re disagreeing with God officially, according to Catholicism.

The problem is that God doesn't appoint the pope, the cardinals do. So the disagreement is political in nature.

I was pointing out how preposterous and hypocritical Catholics are when it comes to what the Pope says, r163

[quote] The problem is that God doesn't appoint the pope, the cardinals do.

Guided by the Holy Spirit!

[quote]He wasn't hot like Pope John Paul. Now that was a pope.

Saint John Paul II now.

He was canonized in 2014.

Well, that's the thing, I don't think they are being hypocritical, I think they're perfectly in their right to complain. Obviously no pope can represent the whole of Catholicdom perfectly.

Catholics having beef with the sitting Pope and his views is as old as Catholicism. It predates the Papal supremacy, even.

The first 'pope' was Peter, who denied Christ three times while Christ was on the cross. Point taken, God.

Should be noted that that's apocryphal, there's really no historical evidence of Peter ever going to Rome. And it would have been weird for him to go there in the first place, what with him being a hillbilly fisherman who spoke only Aramaic (and maybe some Hebrew).

R167, they are totally being hypocritical. The Pope is supposed to be the word of God. The FINAL word is God. Remember “there shall be no other God before me”? (Or something like that.) So according to their own Catholicism religion, they are going against the word of God.

Nonetheless he's the "Rock of the Church". If ind these paradoxes to be at the root of Christianity as I enjoy it.

[quote]The first 'pope' was Peter, who denied Christ three times while Christ was on the cross. Point taken, God.

Incidentally, Peter in JESUS CHRIST SUPERSTAR (1973) was played by Philip Toubus, who became '70s/'80s porn star Paul Thomas.

A timely reminder that even really old guys who get the best heath care and seem like they'll keep going forever eventually wear out.

[quote]Nonetheless he's the "Rock of the Church".

Yes, a very convenient excuse for those early bishops of Rome who started butting into the business of other bishops, which is how the papacy was born. The Donation of Constantine is a forgery as well, and the Catholic Church admits as much now that it doesn't matter anymore.

[QUOTE]The Pope is supposed to be the word of God. The FINAL word is God.

Only when speaking ex cathedra, from the chair, is the Pope infallible, i.e. that it is the final word of God.

[QUOTE]The Pope speaks ex cathedra rarely. In the history of the Catholic Church, only two instances are widely recognized: Pope Pius IX in 1854, defining the Immaculate Conception, and Pope Pius XII in 1950, defining the Assumption of Mary.

r174 I've been saying that to myself like a daily affirmation since 2016 and yet the fucker is still going strong.

r176 Yes, thank you for clearing that up. It's a common misconception that anything that falls out of the pope's mouth should be treated as infallible.

More like "Rockhead of the Church." Amirite?

This bloke could be a shoo in although he’s young.

No one that young is a shoo-in. Quite the opposite actually as most of the cardinals don't want to wait another forty years for the next shot at the papacy.

[quote][R167], they are totally being hypocritical. The Pope is supposed to be the word of God.

No one in the history of the Catholic Church has ever said that the Pope is the word of God. You are mistaking the Pontiff for Republican politicians and their charlatan ministers.

The Bible is the word of God, the Pope is "just" the God's highest official on Earth.

jesus never said to free the slaves, only to love them. so he encouraged the practice and the business of slavery as long as you are kind to your slaves. slaves only become free after dead if they become christians. that is the real abominable word of “God”.

He was the product of his time and place, not some woke king. He didn't say a word about TWOC sex workers either, believe it or not.

Slavery has been present in many -- perhaps even most -- societies throughout recorded history.

The concept of universal emancipation didn't really emerge until the late eighteenth century.

Exactly. Same for animal rights, another very, very recent development.

Can you imagine being a good, decent person all of your life, then, as the end is very near, one of the last human beings you have contact with (outside of your normal circle) is the likes of J D Vance, an emissary of dirtball scumbag Donald Trump.

[quote] Catholics who didn’t approve of Francis’s policies always struck me as weird and stupid. Supposedly, God speaks through the Pope. So you’re disagreeing with God officially, according to Catholicism.

The Catholics who disliked him and his policies are very conservative types who have very nasty beliefs towards gays, poor people, and immigrants. I was raised Catholic, but the parish I attended with my family leaned liberal and one of the priests who served at the parish was friends with my parents and he visited our home regularly. There was one time he and my dad were talking about politics and this priest called a female Republican politician "a heartless bitch" because she wanted to gut assistance programs for the poor. This priest passed away in 2012, if he was alive he would have loathed Trump and JD Vance.

I have mixed views on the Catholic Church and I have known many Catholics who follow the beliefs/teachings of helping the poor, sick, and downtrodden and others who don't follow the beliefs and instead have very nasty views. One of my aunts was a very nasty Republican who hated people on assistance programs like EBT, WIC, etc. She voted for Trump in 2016 and died two years later. Her son and his family are huge Trumpsters. The day after the 2024 election, they were praying rosary because they were thankful Trump was going to be back in office.

Over the years, I follow a lot of Catholic websites, Facebook groups that covering Catholicism and Catholic politicians. The very conservative Catholics loathed Pope Francis and loathe many elected Catholic Democrats. Many were upset when Pope Francis seemed to enjoy his meetings with Biden and Pelosi. I also follow asswipe Sean Duffy, his wife Rachel Campos Duffy, and their brat daughter Evita on social media for laughs. All three love to present themselves as very devout Catholics, but you can tell the only like the ritual part of Catholicism and they don't actually practice any of the beliefs of helping others in need and all three have pretty nasty posts against social safety net programs. Rachel and the brat daughter Evita love posting pics of themselves wearing mantillas, praying the rosary in church and talking about Catholic seasons advent, Lent, Holy Week, etc, but when there no mentions of them ever being involved in RC related groups like Catholic Daughters of America or other groups that help people in need. Rachel's instagram has pics of her kids dressed up as the Virgin Mary, Joan of Arc, and Popes and her son as an altar server. But, it's done in "look how Catholic we are" and look "the kids dress up as Church figures". Again, there is never any mention of the kids helping poor people or Sean being involved in Knights of Columbus another Catholic fraternal organization that does service projects for people in need. I'm surprised Rachel never made Sean join KOC because the KOC regalia aspect seems like would be up her alley.

Since, the news broke of Pope Francis' death broke this morning, the Duffys haven't released any statements on his passing. The Duffys will probably stay quiet because they probably hated Francis' s support for the poor and immigrants. They are probably hoping that the next Pope is some far right type. At the very least, I'm hoping it's at least Centrist type because the Duffys and other far right Catholics will be a bit pissy.

They should choose a woman Pope.

I'm looking at Rachel Cuntos Duffy's twitter and I searched "Pope Francis" in her tweets. Her tweets about him are beyond nasty and referred to him as "Woke Francis" and she has tweets slamming him for meeting with pro-Choice politicians and his talks on climate change.

She's a fucking cunt. If Pope Francis was Woke Francis-- he would have called for women to be ordained as priests, priests to perform gay marriages. Was Pope Francis perfect? No. But, he wasn't a fucking monster like Rachel's Orange Cheeto "God" Trump.

Any baptized Roman Catholic male can be pope.

He hung in there for Easter.

Oh, Marjorie…

r192 There's an ocean between be and become. First and foremost, you need to be a cardinal elector at the time of the conclave as they only vote for each other.

Trad Caths have never prayed harder in their life as they will during this conclave, hoping the next pope will restore their beloved Latin Mass, hugely curtailed by Francis.

bullshit, the bible is a book that encourages slavery and is supposed to be the word of “God”. this evil book is the cery reason why slavery was so accepted.

[quote] I'm afraid of what Trump’s statement will contain.

"I just heard the news. I didn't know the guy. Never met him. I don't know. Some people called him the pope and some called him the pontiff. They drove him around in a Popemobile. Have you seen it? They've got one of these little cars with the wheels and the windows, and they drive him around, and he waves, and they call it a Popemobile. I guess some people say he did great things, but he said some very nasty things about me -- very nasty things. He never said nasty things about Joe Biden, the worst president in history."

Yes, r197. The Qing, Mongol, Aztec, Ottoman, Mughal, et al empires were so very heavily influenced by the Bible.

If the Pope can die from a cerebral hemorrhage, so can Trump!

Let us pray,

God some of the shit you Catholics believe in - it's really crazy. I'm not religious - but wow, the amount of faith in things that have been told to you without questioning it - it's mind boggling.

R201 I was having a conversation about religion with my sister a few months ago and I said, "Come on. Do you really believe Noah gathered two of every animal species and got them on board an ark?" She said, "Why wouldn't I believe it?" I said, "Because, for starters, it would be physically impossible." "You don't know that," she said. "Yes, I do!" I shot back. "You just have no faith," she said.

It's impossible to speak logic to idiots deeply embedded in the cult of religion.

Evangelicals are more into Noah's Ark and similar nonsense than the Catholics, who mainly use it to entertain their kids but don't actually believe it themselves.

R203 Oh, they believe it, all right. I went to Catholic school, and we were taught to accept it as true.

Your Holiness, by the grace of God, we have been led to discover that a certain number of the Jewish and Moorish converts to Christianity are still secretly practicing their former rites and beliefs, thus jeopardizing the purity of our Christian faith. For the protection and benefit of our realm and to preserve the sanctity of our Christian people, we ask for your blessing and permission to establish an inquisition to examine and punish those who are found guilty of such heresies, in accordance with the laws of the Church.

The Pope's response was to grant this request by issuing the bull, "Exigit Sincerae Devotionis Affectus", giving Ferdinand and Isabella the authority to appoint inquisitors. This began the process of the Spanish Inquisition under their control, though still with papal oversight.

r204 Exactly, because you were kids at school. Adult Catholics don't really talk about Noah's Ark and most Catholic priests are too embarrassed to bring it up at mass, same as with most Old Testament stuff.

When Spain expelled the Jews in 1492, Ottoman Sultan Bayezid II mocked the decision, saying, "You have sent us a valuable gift. You have expelled a wealthy and industrious people, and we shall gladly accept them." He welcomed the Jews into the Ottoman Empire, seeing them as valuable assets for their skills and wealth.

R203 is the Catholic who always deflects and says - LOOK AT THE EVANGELICALS! There is no one evangelical church and he tries to smear all protestant denominations with the same brunch, as if they are all evangelical. Less than 23% of US Christians are evangelical.

It's all bull but the extra layers of complexity and bs from the Catholic Church really takes the cake.

[quote]The Pope is dead

🎶 [italic]Let us be glad. Let us be grateful. Let us rejoicify that goodness could subdue.[/italic] 🎶

R206 Which is why my 66-year-old Catholic sister believes it's true.

Try again.

[quote] The coolest moment is from "Habemus papam!" to the reveal of who actually got the gig.

I also like the moment after when the reporters giddily announce who the new pope is: “It’s Bergoglio!” They’re like F. Murray Abraham announcing Geraldine Page as Best Actress winner.

[quote] Which is why my 66-year-old Catholic sister believes it's true.

She believes it BECAUSE it is absurd.

[quote]I went to Catholic school, and we were taught to accept it as true.

I also went to Catholic school and we were taught that it was true but not necessarily a fact. It reveals a truth but may not be a an actual event

“They preach only human doctrines who say that as soon as the money clinks into the money chest, the soul flies out of purgatory.” 95 Theses, Thesis 27 (1517)

“Christians are to be taught that he who gives to the poor or lends to the needy does a better deed than he who buys indulgences.” 95 Theses, Thesis 43 (1517)

“The pope is not the master of the Holy Scriptures, but their servant.” Open Letter to the Christian Nobility of the German Nation (1520)

“A simple layman armed with Scripture is to be believed above a pope or a council without it.” Letter to the Christian Nobility of the German Nation (1520)

“The Roman Church, once the holiest of all, has become the most licentious den of thieves, the most shameless of brothels.” Open Letter to the Christian Nobility of the German Nation (1520)

“I cannot and will not recant anything, for to go against conscience is neither right nor safe. Here I stand, I can do no other.” Diet of Worms (1521)

“I am more afraid of my own heart than of the pope and all his cardinals. I have within me the great pope, Self.” Table Talk (c. 1530s, compiled posthumously)

How's that diet of worms, r214?

R205, that was another pope over 500 years ago. Are you going to lay all the Church's sins at Francis' feet?

R213 - that's the hairsplitting and sophism of the Catholic Church to get their way out of everything. It's true, but not necessarily a fact. WHAT?

There's always some over-orchestrated bullshit answer, trying to separate something into different concepts.

R215 History is fascinating! I'm sorry I was reading all about Spain (the land of rabbits, conejos) last night! It's crazy how much religion was used to make a good society and yet so many people have been killed over disputes on the right way to worship, and all the awful gay persecution. How slavery is just in the Torah, the first five books of the Bible, as an accepted part of the world.

I'm glad that people take religion more with a grain of salt now. It's good to believe in something bigger than yourself and to connect and feel the spirit, something deeper, life beyond, but I think there are many ways you can do that and you don't need a religion to do so.

Can't believe Catholics used to kill other Christians just for you know not believing in the Trinity or whatever. Burning them at the stake. Isaac Newton wrote more about God than anything on math. I'm glad we're progressing.

.

Trump says he's going to the funeral. Hopefully, he'll burst into flames upon entering St. Peter's Square.

R220 Maybe, RFK Jr will go with him in Air Force One.

All that air travel can’t be good for a man that age.

R219 - Issac Newton also kept a lot of his heretical beliefs to himself because of the blasphemy laws. He wasn't as free to speak his thoughts on religion as much as you'd think.

JD Vance HUMILIATED after HORRIBLE MEETING

My money is that the next Pope is going to make the Nazi Pope look like a pot-smoking liberal.

If you look around, the growth areas for Catholics are in ultra conservative countries.

They're going to pander to their growth base.

I was hue-mil-e-ay-ted!

I don’t think they will ever choose an American pope, like, never.

R184, mohammade was an actually slave master and trader, especially sex slaves. People are so ignorant about slavery in human history. It was ubiquitous for tens of thousands of years. It is still going on now, but let's not tell the truth about that either.

Can the Nazi pope come back?

The rapist and his whore will be at the funeral.

"We look forward to being there!"

That's going to be some must see TV. Which leaders will be cool to him and which will suck up on public.

R230 Who the fuck "looks forward to" going to a funeral?

Dumbest fucking individual on the planet.

Of course Trump is going to the funeral.

As much as it pains my typing fingers to type these words, as the US head-of-State, sickening as that is, he should be there.

Besides, what idiot would think he'd pass up a chance to swan around and bloviate on maybe the rarest, biggest world-wide TV event there is, especially when his ratings and popularity are in the toilet?

Trump hated Pope Francis but that doesn't mean that hypocrite isn't going to ride his dead coattails.

But it remains that Trump STILL a massive chicken-shit.

Cowards like him know that, given the occasion, everybody will be on their best behavior.

And spare me that stupid "Fight! Fight! Fight!" fist bump at the attempted assassination to try to argue Trump is somehow "brave."

Bullshit.

You or I could a have done the same thing surrounded by 5 or 6 six Secret Service agents.

I'm surprised smart people even believed in a man God coming to earth, let alone debated and wrote about it, R223.

I'm no genius, but I remember learning about this God's representative story as a child, taking one look at the world around me, half women, different races, and thinking it can't possibly be true and being in disbelief that this was the backbone upon what we believed was God.

I think most of the enlightened world gets it for the creation myth and allegories to teach people to be good, and doesn't take it too seriously.

The woods can breath easy until the next Pope arrives

R233 - well, access to books, scholarship, information and learning is relatively new. Public education past grammar school only started in late 19th/early 20th century. Books were expensive - so was travel.

99% of the world was really ignorant 100+ years ago - without many available resources to change that.

The progress of the 20th century is something nobody has ever seen before. We're just 2-3 generations away from such a different world and mindset.

It's no wonder we are still fighting this hangover of superstition and fairy beliefs even today. Admitting your wrong or what you believed was wrong is just too challenging for most folks - look at Republicans.

I hope the new pope is John Lithgow!

Is twenty hours the usual amount of time for someone to die after having a visit with a demon sent from the AntiChrist?

r228 if slavary existed before the coming of the so called son of God, then he clearly had to problem with it. again, this perfect all loving guy never said , free your slaves, do buy go to a slave market and buy one, he never prohibited the buy and sell of human slaves, he only encouraged slaves owners to be good and kind with their own slaves and those they were going to buy in the future.

.....

The Pope after meeting JD Vance

R238 - which is weird because of all the 'let my people go' bitching and moaning about Jews being slaves in Egypt. But logic and cohesion is not something the Bible is big on.

The Bible is such a mess - if it is the word of God, then God's not so smart or articulate.

R238 I think you are confusing Jesus with Paul, who was primarily addressing Roman slave owners. Jewish slave ownership wasn’t much of a thing by the time of the Roman occupation. But if you think Jesus addressed slavery and I missed it please let me know the reference.

The conflation of truth with objective fact is a very modern obsession.

[quote]The name the new pope chooses for himself will be extremely revealing and will offer us a glimpse into the future direction of the Church even before he steps onto the balcony for the first time.

I hope they go by Sebastian I, Sebastian traditionally being considered the patron saint of the gays and that they insist that their pronouns are they/them. Of course you'd still be able to call them by their drag name: Lexa Proud.

As always, I'm rooting for Sylvester.

.....and then she DIED!

He was a very good-looking young priest...

He was, r246, I don’t think I’ve ever seen any photos of him as a young man. Definitely very nice looking.

He was a nice guy and my last pope. Whoever ‘’wins’’ will be a trump pope setting back any of France’s efforts. The Pope is Dope.

The Catholic Church could not wait till this pope was dead and surprised they didn’t speed up the process years ago. Sadly I have family members who believe he crossed the line years ago by acknowledging LGBTQ and speaking about immigration/deportation

Dear God it’s Margaret. Would you mind striking down the Catholic Church now Francis is gone. It was never an accurate representation of you and your son anyway so you may want to start something new. thanks, take good care,

I want a schism, just like in the old days.

FIGHT! FIGHT! FIGHT! TWO POPES!

The Bible is ridiculous:

Treat your slaves right! Slaves listen to your masters. Don't steal or kidnap a slave. Servitude is ok, but free the Jew slave after 7 years, the Jubilee!

Too stupid to consider hey how about we not enslave anyone? Right up there with maybe women can have rights? Maybe gays aren't so bad?

Was he smelling cookies there?

r252 You want it to detail the perfect economic system, too? Listen, I'm not religious anymore, but the Bible is just a collection of various – and often incongruous – documents from a certain time and place talking about moral principles, not Psychic Sally's How To guide for humanity for all eternity.

Yes, I demand perfection from GOD! It's not perfect therefore it's not from God.

Is that a good job - pope? You get to travel around and stuff? I mean better places than this.

[bold]Cardinal Kevin Farrell is now running the Vatican.[/bold]

Following the death of Pope Francis, a cardinal from the United States has become acting head of the Vatican until a new pontiff is elected.

He is Cardinal Kevin Farrell, a Dublin-born cleric who became a naturalized American citizen after spending many years ministering in the United States. Farrell, a former Bishop of Dallas, holds the position of “camerlengo” (or chamberlain) which tasks him with “overseeing and administering the temporal goods and rights of the Apostolic See” following the death or resignation of a pope.

It is the camerlengo’s job to “officially ascertain the Pope’s death,” place seals on the pope’s bedroom and study and make funeral preparations. The camerlengo is also tasked with making practical arrangements for the conclave, to ensure the confidentiality of proceedings and orderly voting.

Wearing white choir dress and a red stole (a vestment), he presides over the ceremonial service of the certification of death, “a first moment of prayer” following the death of the pope, and the placing of the body into a wooden and zinc coffin, according to a liturgical book for papal funeral rites which Francis had updated last year. He draws up “the authentic act of death” which is then attached to the death certificate that has been drawn up by the Vatican’s Director of the Department of Health and Hygiene. On Monday evening, the Vatican press office said Francis died of a stroke and heart failure.

The camerlengo’s powers are limited to the day-to-day administration of the Vatican and he chairs a committee of three other cardinals as he carries out his duties. When serious matters arise, he must consult with the wider body of cardinals.

Nevertheless, during the papal interregnum - the period between the death of one pope and the election of another - the camerlengo can request financial information from Vatican departments including details of any “extraordinary business” taking place. He can also demand “the budget and consolidated financial statement of the Holy See for the previous year, as well as the budget for the following year,” according to the constitution of the church’s central administration. During a papal interregnum, all leaders of the Vatican offices cease to carry out their work aside from the camerlengo and two others.

Farrell is a well-qualified camerlengo. The 77-year-old is unusual for a high-ranking church leader in holding a Master of Business Administration degree (MBA), from the University of Notre Dame, Indiana. Farrell is the highest-ranking US bishop in the church’s central administration and known as a strong decision maker and organizer who has the advantage of being a fluent English and Spanish speaker, the two most widely spoken languages in the global church. He is also known to speak Italian and Irish Gaelic.

Farrell’s expertise caught the attention of Pope Francis who made him one of his most trusted collaborators. In 2016, Francis appointed the then Bishop of Dallas to be the leader of the Vatican’s family life, later making him a cardinal and then, three years later, choosing him for the important and sensitive position of camerlengo.

r257 Stanley Tucci is much more handsome.

[quote] R257 Stanley Tucci is much more handsome.

Ewan Mcgregor was the best looking Camerlengo, in "Angels and Demons."

I wonder if he’ll be buried in a keffiyeh.

One assumes that the frightful cunt is having a special 3 metre long black funeral tie tailored just for the event. Please god (I’m a former Catholic so can say this) that AF1 explodes in a massive fireball mid Atlantic.

The world needs an American pope like a fish needs a bicycle. But it could be entertaining.

He really did seem to be a nice man. I always wondered why a lung transplant wasn’t done. Maybe the surgery was too risky at his age

[quote]I'm not religious anymore, but the Bible is just a collection of various – and often incongruous – documents from a certain time and place talking about moral principles

But to the religious, the Bible is not just that. They believe it is the Word of God, and it's nigh impossible to reconcile the contradictions, errors and injustices therein with an omniscient being.

Catholic theologians and many mainstream Protestants take a much different approach to Biblical exegesis than Evangelical Protestants.

Was just about to say. To many Catholics, the Bible is more of a suggestion, really. Filled with metaphors and allegories, especially the more magical stuff. You definitely don't get anywhere near the levels of crazy biblical literalism you see among (American) evangelicals.

r266 I have a long-standing interest in the Bible, mainly for literary/historical reasons. I own several translations, including those edited by Protestant Evangelical and Catholic/mainstream Protestant theologians.

One interesting and sharp divide is the question of authorship. Take Daniel and Isaiah. In the Protestant Evangelical translations, there are no ifs, ands, or buts: Isaiah, the prophet, wrote every word of the book we now call Isaiah. However, the Catholic/mainstream Protestant translations are much more skeptical, and since (I think?) the late nineteenth century, it has been posited that Isaiah has three distinct parts that correspond with three separate authors: Proto-Isaiah, Deutero-Isaiah, and Trito-Isaiah.

Similarly, Evangelicals claim Daniel was written by Daniel in the 6th century BCE. But more historically grounded scholars say no, it was likely written by another author in the 2nd century BCE, a period which witnessed the flourishing of the apocalyptic genre.

Somehow, he looks healthier dead than Benedict XVI did when he was alive.

Christ, that's grim. Why didn't they embalm him and touch him up with some makeup?! He's just rotting away, ffs.

Benedict looked like an Egyptian mummy, the Vatican morticians really need to get their shit together.

A now, some music list suggestions for his funeral…

R269 He looks embalmed to me. Embalming gives a body that weird ashen look.

The don’t have some blush in all the Vatican?

r272 Yeah, I guess so. I was just disturbed by that purple blotch on his head, they really should have covered that up.

R273 Makeup? On a man? Who do you think we are, Episcopalians?

You’ve clearly never been to an open casket Sicilian funeral in Dutchess county and it shows R275.

are you in duchess county? my origins.

scuzi. DUTCHESS county.

No, but I’ve been to a lot of funerals there. So much foundation on the deceased.

He'll send your Nonnu off correctly.

It's the same in New Jersey and Connecticut so not just Dutchess County.

Strictly Torsone

LOL!

I still can't believe he's gone. He was alive one day, and the next – dead!

r284 there has LONG been a virulent anti-Catholic strain among American Evangelicals, which makes the recent truce between right-wing Protestants and conservative Catholics all the more striking.

r287 Yeah, some American protestants don't even count Catholicism as Christianity, or themselves as Protestants (lol). I heard this one Canadian(!) bitch on her pop culture podcast say once "No, I'm not a Catholic, I'm a Christian." Immediately unsubscribed.

I think deep down they're just jealous of their long tradition and institutional strength. Their megachurches come and go, but the Vatican remains.

r288 a friend of mine was raised Southern Baptist and converted to Catholicism shortly after his marriage.

I recently had a conversation with him, and he said that the Southern Baptist tradition -- in his experience -- did not expose him to the history of Christianity at all, not even the history of the Protestant Reformation. I found that interesting. The American Restorationist movements, like Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormonism, are also still very anti-Catholic.

r288 I should add that they would probably be equally anti-Orthodox, but they aren't exposed to the Orthodox tradition as much in the US. (Personally, I find Orthodox theology fascinating.)

I have another friend who belongs to the Ethiopian Orthodox Tewahedo Church. She says she finds it highly ironic when American missionaries show up in Ethiopia to try to convert members of that church to Christianity, as Ethiopian Christianity is one of the oldest branches of Christianity. I suppose that American Evangelicals almost perfectly mirror the more general anti-intellectualism that infects so much of American life.

r289 Yeah, the Restorationists are their own special snowflakes, also refusing to categorise themselves as Protestants. That also goes for the ultra liberal Mormon offshoots like Community of Christ, who would be my preferred denomination if I were still religious. They're all deluded, I swear something crazy happens to religion when it comes to America. And of course, the exceptionalism of it all doesn't help either.

[quote]as Ethiopian Christianity is one of the oldest branches of Christianity.

Second oldest nation to adopt Christianity, just after Armenia! And yes, it's always hilarious when American missionaries pull up to proselytise in predominantly Christian countries. There's such an air of imperialism to their project and attitude, it's like no it doesn't matter what you have been doing up to this point, let us show you the right way.

r291 an LDS friend of mine tells me that Mormons are simultaneously drawn to the pomp and circumstance of the Catholic liturgy and also very much anti-Catholic. To reconcile these two things, they attend Episcopalian or Anglican "Catholic-lite" services, which is seen as socially acceptable.

R270: "Benedict looked like an Egyptian mummy, the Vatican morticians really need to get their shit together."

I told JD to bring some Cheeto dust, in a very tasteful gold... What are those things the Wise Men carried? Well, you know. Anyway, looking forward to the funeral!

R289, Baptists believe that Catholicism is a cult, which is rich. They have a big problem with Catholics worshipping the Pope and the Virgin Mary. Baptists also believe that Jews are going to hell because they don't believe that Jesus died for their sins.

r295 I always remember this response from the "Southern Baptist men: tell me about them" thread:

[quote]One thing I’ve noticed about ALL Baptists is that there’s a real trashiness about them. Money with no education and a chip on their shoulders.

[quote]Baptists also believe that Jews are going to hell because they don't believe that Jesus died for their sins.

"I just couldn't believe that his was the people that what killed our Lord."

Why is it all these bishops and cardinals are so unfuckable? Do they not have gyms in the Vatican? Occasionally you'll see some hot priest in his 20s or 30s and it throws you - because the future does not look good for them.

They all turn into these old, bald doughy white blobs. God knows they like their fancy clothes, but their bodies are clearly not a temple.

Here's a Canadian cardinal. I'm not Catholic - but I'm more apt to listen to this guy. He looks mentally fit, energetic, and modern.

I'm tired of old politicians and old church leaders extending their lives and holding on to their power with a death grip.

[quote]He looks mentally fit, energetic, and modern.

Because he's fucking young, just like you said. Give him a decade or two and he'll turn into a slob. The whole appeal of this gig is that you pretty much don't have to lift a finger because everyone is at your beck and call 24/7.

[quote] The Pope is dead

But is he dead dead?

As a non-praticing Catholic, I really don't have any skin in this game.

As long as uber cunt Raymond Burke or one of his allies isn't selected, I'm good with anyone.

If we’re placing bets, I say Zuppi is the next Pope, but it may not happen until next year.

Why, IDK, but that’s my call.

[quote]but it may not happen until next year.

It will be done by the end of May, they're not going to be without a pope for months on end. Even the most obstinate cardinal electors will give in after a couple of rounds when they see where the wind is blowing, and start making backroom deals to try and make the best out of the situation.

The problem with Zuppi is that despite the kind eyes, he lacks lips. I think the cardinals will take aesthetic considerations into account as well.

good riddance. I hate religion

They have easy cushy lives, they wear long clothing so I no incentive to work out lol

[quote] I think the cardinals will take aesthetic considerations into account as well.

Unless the candidates are under 16 I suspect they don’t care.

[quote]This conclave could be quite interesting. Did Francis name enough progressive/reform-minded cardinals to tip the balance?

I saw on the news Pope Francis wanted Cardinal Luis Antonio Tagle, a Filipino prelate, to replace him. Tagle is known as the Asian Pope Francis.

I hope it's Zuppi or Tagle.

I just read the funeral for Pope Francis is this Saturday 4/26 and the first to be televised in 20 years, the last being Pope John Paul. It begins at 10:00 AM Eastern.

I remember JP's funeral like it was yesterday. How time flies.

R310 The funeral begins 10am Rome time and 4am Eastern Time.

His Holiness Pope Frances lies in repose.

What's with the massive bruise on the left side of his head?

I know that he had a "cerebral stroke," but it looks like maybe a blood vessel burst, or something.

That looks really bad.

I'm old and I've been around old people my whole life. And one thing I have seen more times than I can count is how badly people will bruise when they get to a certain age. It literally takes nothing to get old people to bruise. Just a few days ago I found I had been leaning against my arm on the edge of my desk while I worked on the computer, for no more than a few minutes. 2 days later I end up with a huge bruise from my elbow all the way down to my wrist.

We need to find a cure for oldness, is what I'm getting from your post, r315.

Or at least a cure for thin skin and hematomas

[quote] A now, some music list suggestions for his funeral…

[quote]I saw on the news Pope Francis wanted Cardinal Luis Antonio Tagle, a Filipino prelate, to replace him. Tagle is known as the Asian Pope Francis.

Who is Luis Antonio Tagle, the Gay Internet’s Favorite Papal Candidate?

[quote]Following Pope Francis’ death this week at age 88, Catholics around the world (and LGBTQ+ people affected by the Church’s doctrine) are wondering who will take his place. Among the reported frontrunners is Cardinal Luis Antonio Tagle, a close ally and advisor to Francis who could become the first Filipino Pope in history — and potentially continue in the spirit of Francis’ fraught relationship with LGBTQ+ rights. Indeed, in the somewhat ironic Conclave-inspired social media discourse around the selection of the next pope, Tagle has emerged as a queer favorite.

Not to be morbid, r314, but that may be where blood pooled if he was lying down on his side.

Either that, or I wonder if he fell out of his wheelchair when he had the stroke and hit his head?

Of the 135 cardinals eligible to appoint the next pontiff, Pope Francis installed 108.

It might not be a landslide for a conservative pope as I had previously thought.

Also, have the conspiracy wingnuts weighed in yet? Do they think he may have actually died on Easter Sunday, but the vatican didn't like the optics of it, so kept it quiet until the next day?

Hmmm I would think the Vatican would find it, for lack of a better word, elegant if he died on Easter. But what do I know? 🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️🤷‍♂️

Someone help me think of a better word.

Auspicious

Fortuitous

Serendipitous

R323…👏👏👏much better! Thanks!!

Pope Francis’ last words before his death on Monday were an expression of thanks to his personal nurse and caregiver, Massimiliano Strappetti, the Vatican revealed Tuesday while describing the 88-year-old pontiff’s final hours.

Francis hesitated to surprise a throng of 50,000 faithful who amassed in St. Peter’s Square with a ride in the popemobile following his Easter blessing from the balcony of St. Peter’s Basilica, Vatican News reported, with the pontiff asking Strappetti, "Do you think I can manage it?"

Once Francis was reassured, he took his tour of the square, stopping to embrace people, especially children, on his route.

Among Francis’ last words was a heartfelt message to Strappetti.

"Thank you for bringing me back to the Square," Francis, widely known as "the People’s Pope," told his personal health care assistant, Vatican News reported.

Francis rested the rest of Sunday afternoon and had a quiet dinner, according to the official Vatican news agency.

Francis showed the first signs of illness around 5:30 a.m. on Easter Monday and fell into a coma an hour later, according to Vatican News. Before falling into the coma, Francis made "a gesture of farewell with his hand" to Strappetti.

Francis died after going into a coma and suffering a heart attack.

Those at his side during his final moments said Francis did not suffer, and his death happened quickly, Vatican News reported.

r325 His face there is very revealing, his body was retaining so much water towards the end.

[quote]Viewership of “Conclave” spiked 283% on Monday as word of Pope Francis’ passing spread throughout the world, according to Luminate, which tracks viewership of streaming content. “Conclave” generated about 1.8 million minutes viewed on April 20; by the end of April 21, that number had reached 6.9 million minutes viewed.

[quote]Another Vatican-themed film, Netflix’s 2019 drama “The Two Popes,” also generated renewed interest. Viewership spiked 417% from Sunday, when it generated 290,000 minutes watched, to Monday, when it reached 1.5 million minutes watched.

R312 I can't do 4:00 AM! I'll have to watch a repeat.

MPGA

The last pope born in Africa was Gelasius I. Pity the current sub-Saharan African Catholics are so conservative.

Northern Africa used to be the Bible Belt of the Mediterranean back in the early centuries of Christianity, believe it or not.

Speaking of wasn’t Saint Augustine from North Africa?

Yep, he was bishop of Hippo (present-day Annaba in Algeria).

Heaven ! I'm in Papal Heaven!

I really liked Francis. His first Papal visit was to Lampedusa where he highlighted the issue of the forgotten African migrants who drown in such large numbers on the shores of Europe. He washed the feet of Muslim inmates in one of Rome's prisons. He said 'Who am I to judge?' when speaking of gay priests. He called Gaza's Catholics every single night since October, even when in the hospital. He sent his Secretary of State to give JD Vance a lecture on compassion.

Best Pope of the modern era. Perhaps it wouldn't be possible for any Pope to be better.

While he did appoint around 80% of the Cardinal electors, the problem is that he appointed many of them from places in Africa, South America and Asia that have never had a cardinal: like Brunei, Rwanda, Myanmar, Mali and El Salvador. It was the right thing to do from the perspective of where the church is growing, but we can't assume that all these new cardinals will be liberals or progressives.

That said, I suspect that a mushy centrist like Pietro Parolin might be a good bet in the Conclave, even if the Italians never seem to manage to unite around a candidate these days.

I love this photo of him riding the Buenos Aires subway (from 2008). He was totally down to earth and a true man of the people. And a little BDE going on, if I may say so.

Other than Tagle and Zuppi, progressives might also consider cheering for Jean-Marc Aveline, allegedly one of Francis' favourite potential successors....

This will be the third conclave I've watched with you bitches. We have so many knowledgeable posters, it's nice.

Well, what's happening now with the corpse, any updates?

News at 11 on WWKW ( 4/23/31)

Police report that a man named R298 has jumped to his death from the High Street Bridge. His note left behind was “ I am now past 35 I am old fat and unfuckable and going to hell”

In other news puppies escape the 12th street rescue

[Quote]Any baptized Roman Catholic male can be pope.

Don't give Greg any lofty ideas!

Prince William, instead of King Charles, will attend the funeral with Kier Starmer.

Might as well.

PW will be doing this anyway once KC dies and he might as well become more accustomed to attending this type of rare, mega-televised event, not that he isn't already.

Which networks will carry the funeral?

R344 CNN, FoxNews, MSNBC, NBC, CBS, ABC

I wonder Rachel Cuntos Duffy will be on Fox News the day of the funeral. She and her husband Sean have kept quiet on social media about the Pope's death. They are probably rejoicing. Their twat daughter on Evita did a podcast yesterday about selecting the new Pope.

At the very least, I hope a centrist type is elected Pope just so the far right wing Catholics like the Duffys and their ilk will have meltdown.

As I've mentioned in this thread Rachel Cuntos' social media posts on Catholicism are hilarious for different reasons. She and her family only seem to like the ritual aspects of Catholicism and the church's stance on abortion. When it comes to helping the poor, the Duffys are nasty as fuck. On the last feast day of St. Francis of Assisi, Rachel had a tweet about how she recently lost her dog and she knows how "St. Francis understands her sorrow". I'm an animal lover and I have three pets and yes St. Francis is considered he patron saint of animals. But, St Francis also taught and encouraged people to help others in need. Rachel and her cunty family don't following that teaching of St. Francis all they like is probably going to pet blessings on October 4th and that's it.

We know one cunt who won't be attending the funeral. Actually, I wish she would attend and be beaten to death by outraged mourners.

Emperor Constantine didn't like the parts of the Bible about Lilith, Adam's first wife and gutted it.

That's a popular myth, but there's no historical evidence for it. Lilith is mentioned in Jewish mythology and folklore (also in the Talmud), and features in apocryphal and pseudepigraphical texts, but not in the Bible itself. Furthermore, the Council of Nicaea, which Constantine convened, did not concern itself with what constituted the Bible, that was done later at the Council of Laodicea when he was already dead.

[quote] Prince William, instead of King Charles, will attend the funeral with Kier Starmer.

That’s fairly typical. British monarchs don’t not typically attend the funerals of other monarchs, though there have been exceptions. In this instance, the monarch is also the head of a religion, as is the king, and the religion from which the Church of England broke.

Live stream of people visiting his coffin in St Peter's Basilica.

A disgusting display, everyone with their smartphone up in the air trying to get a good shot of the corpse.

The slut is dead long live the slut!

The anti-woke cardinal from Africa who conservative Catholics want as Pope…

r353 Odds schmods. Truth is, no one knows shit right now. Not even the cardinal electors themselves, who will use the first round of voting to gauge where things stand. As an interesting piece of trivia, the last conclave where the pope was elected after the first round already was in 1623.

Ya gotta give Catholics credit we know how to do ritual pomp. The Britsh royals look like cosplay pensioners. We Papists put on a good show. You get your monies worth.

Catholic Taste.

Now, THAT'S what I call paying respect!

I didn't think of that, r350 and it really makes sense.

R351

The Pope's body is not really visible being in that coffin. They are usually laid out uncontained on the top of a bier.

Wonder why the change?

Jorge requested his corpse not be displayed and his simple wooden coffin be closed. Francisco believed it should not be about him but Him. Obviously he was over ruled but as a concession he was made less visable than previous dead pontiffs who were paraded around like Baked Alaska.. We know how Papists revere dead things.

R356 Jesus Christ ! He looks tasty!

r361 Christ, look at all those Eyetalians gawking at him. The most amusing one is the guy in the left corner, *really* pondering what's it all mean.

Also, there's some blush on those cheeks 100%, he looks so much better than Benedict and Francis.

If this can happen to a pope, it can happen to anyone!

[quote] Convicted cardinal demands to be part of conclave to choose new pope, setting up Vatican standoff

A cardinal convicted of financial crimes by the Vatican is claiming he can take part in the forthcoming conclave despite being listed as a “non-elector.”

Cardinal Giovanni Angelo Becciu, once one of the most powerful figures in the Vatican, was ordered by Pope Francis in 2020 to resign the “rights and privileges” of a cardinal after he became embroiled in a Vatican financial scandal.

The Sardinian cardinal previously held the position of “sostituto” (“substitute”) in the Holy See’s Secretariat of State - a papal chief of staff equivalent.

The role offered Becciu walk-in privileges to see the pope and he commanded huge authority across the church’s central government. He was later moved to a position running the Vatican’s saint-making department.

Becciu was convicted of embezzlement and fraud in 2023 and handed a five-and-a-half-year jail sentence. He is the first cardinal to be convicted by the Vatican’s criminal court.

But the cardinal, who has always maintained his innocence, launched an appeal that’s currently still under consideration. He’s allowed to continue to live in a Vatican apartment while this process is underway.

While the Holy See press office has listed him as a “non-elector,” Becciu told a Sardinian newspaper on Tuesday that “there was no explicit will to exclude me from the conclave nor a request for my explicit renunciation in writing.”

The decision of his participation will likely be decided by the dean of the College of Cardinals, Giovanni Battista Re, and Cardinal Pietro Parolin, who will oversee the conclave proceedings inside the Sistine Chapel.

The investigation into Becciu centered on the Holy See’s disastrous investment in a London property that saw the church lose tens of millions of dollars.

During his papacy, Francis sought to clean up Vatican finances and changed the law to ensure that Becciu, as a cardinal, could be judged by a Vatican tribunal of judges.

Although Becciu lost his rights and privileges as a cardinal, he was never technically removed from the College of Cardinals. He is allowed to take part in the pre-conclave discussions.

David Muir said that he will be on ABC live Saturday morning starting at 3:30 AM to cover the funeral.

Thanks r66

"That's a popular myth, but there's no historical evidence for it"

R349 You mean like EVERYTHING in your Book of Jewish Fairytales.

[quote] Jorge requested his corpse not be displayed and his simple wooden coffin be closed.

What are the wake customs in Argentina/Latin America?

I seem to remember photos of Peron remains being displayed.

Alexa, what's the strangest tribute to Pope Francis on the entire Internet?

ya know they've got a hell of a band!

MSNBC's coverage of the funeral starts at 4:00 am eastern on Saturday. I'll probably start the recording an hour before as I will not be awake.

R370, feast your eyes on this.

R373 My hoo hah is wet.

Paddington never died.

Melania, I haven't asked for much, but if you could PLEASE wear that "I really don't care, do you?" jacket to this funeral, all will be forgiven.

r368 I'm not religious, I'm just not a fan of bad history, wherever it might be coming from.

[quote]I seem to remember photos of Peron remains being displayed.

r369 I listened to The Rest Is History podcast series about Evita earlier this year and the shit they did with her corpse is mental and borderline unbelievable.

R377 if you equate anything in the bible with "good history" you're not sane.

r379 And you're being completely disingenuous. I was responding to a poster asserting historical facts about the emperor Constantine that are simply not true given all the historical evidence and scholarly consensus. I said nothing about the nature of the Bible, which is obviously a collection of fairytales and possibly schizophrenic ravings by a disturbed rabble-rouser.

Bitches meet Pope Vivian Vance I

I knew Emperor Constantine. I worked with Emperor Constantine. Emperor Constantine was a friend of mine. R349 you're no Emperor Constantine.

He never accepted his salary as pope. Say what you want about him, but he was an honorable man with principles...truly a dying breed.

[quote] Pope Francis, however, refused the salary ever since he became pope, choosing instead to give the money to the Church or be used for a foundation.

[quote]This is in line with then-Bergoglio's practices as a member of the Jesuit order, who take on a vow of poverty and modest living. The Vatican confirmed in 2001 that Bergoglio never accepted money from the Church.

[quote]For comparison, since becoming pope in March 2013, Pope Francis would have earned $4.64 million or P261 million.

Just how many yarmulkes does he need @ r383?

That's a zucchetto.

[quote]Prelates often give away their skullcaps to the faithful. The practice, which was started in the modern era by Pope Pius XII, involves giving the zucchetto to the faithful, as a keepsake, if presented with a new one as a gift. Popes John Paul II, Benedict XVI, and Francis have continued the custom. The pope might choose not to give the visitor his own zucchetto, [bold]but rather place the gift zucchetto on his head for a moment as a blessing, then return it to the giver.[/bold]

DL was better back when Emperor Constantine was posting here.

Wow what a guy! He could have gone crazy paying for rent at his Vatican digs, firing up his Tesla, flinging high end groceries into his cart at Whole Foods and snapping up all white summer wear from Ralph Lauren.

R383 - the Pope makes $32,000 a MONTH? With all expenses and travel paid?

Yikes - tell me how that doesn't sounds like a business corporation?

Is it all tax free?

That's a good gig! 32k a month, rent and food is covered? Health insurance too?

The Vatican is its own sovereign state of which the pope is the monarch. I’m sure it’s tax free.

R391 - yep - that's what I was thinking because of its sovereignty. It also has its own bank, which has been caught money-laundering and doing other shady things, but that's a different discussion.

But not all priests take a vow of poverty - only the ones in religious orders.

It's not like MegaChurch leaders or Falwell or some of these other tele-evangelists aren't out there making 10-100x more than this.

Approx $380,000 a year for a head of state and CEO of a world wide billions of dollars enterprise. Less than what the 3rd most expensive actor on an episode of a Netflix series might get?

But he has a much better wardrobe, r393.

[quote]the Pope makes $32,000 a MONTH? With all expenses and travel paid?

Piker.

I don't understand why an absolute monarch like the pope even has a salary. Doesn't the whole of the Vatican revolve around him anyway? Also, a salary implies you have a life outside of your job, which the pope does not, nor does he retire. Resignations are also extremely uncommon.

[quote] nor does he retire

I retired to a life of contemplation and prayer.

[QUOTE]But not all priests take a vow of poverty - only the ones in religious orders.

Despite having gone to Catholic grade school and high school, I didn't know most priests do not take a vow of poverty until I was well into my 40s. I thought all priests and nuns did. That explained why the nuns in my parish shared a crappy Chrysler K car while the monsignor drove a top-of -the-line Buick back in the early 80s.

The equivalent of a nun is not a priest, it's a monk. Monks generally live a life of poverty in a monastery together while priests live in (and minister to) a parish.

Funeral is tomorrow

Everyone but the heathenest of heathen whores knows that already, r400.

Selfies with the dead pope is more than I could have imagined. That’s proof there is no God.

Concerned European missing the point as per usual.

R399 doesn't seem to understand that monks have practically ZERO visibility and have jackshit to do with parishioners whom they never minister to unless in detached intellectual, intercessory prayer, which is often performed upon request for donations.

Nuns and priests are hands-on in the community and minister to the laity, so there is equivalence. They are visible through their works. Parish priests do it with considerably more finances and comfort than the female nuns.

CE, again trying to interject his uninformed bullshit. How very Suzy of him.

You're chiding CE, but what you're describing isn't fully correct either, 403. Just to clarify any confusion when it comes to the role of those in religious orders.

Seclusion: monks and nuns

Active engagement in the community (teaching the kiddies etc.): friars and sisters religious

*Sorry, I dropped an r there at r403. I do know how to quote posters, don't come at me!

[quote] as per usual

It doesn't matter who you quoted when parsing words by calling the women in parishes "sisters" vs. "nuns." Sisters, as you preferred reference, also take a vow of poverty and are significantly economically disadvantaged compared to priests.

Gross Susan Collins is in the delegation attending the funeral.

Of course, Concerned Suzy will be there!

She's from the delegation of virtuous Republican females who remained virgins until the age of 59 when she finally married the love of her life.

Will former Trump Ambassadoress to the Holy See, proud adulteress Calista Gingrich, also be present at the funeral?

I think the point is that there is no female equivalent of priests in the Catholic Church and so all religious female orders in the church take a vow of poverty (sisters and nuns) while only some male orders (friars and monks) do. If you want to be a rich Catholic cleric you need to be a priest/bishop/cardinal/pope and to be one of those you need to be a man.

But I’m certainly not a Catholic so what do I know.

Often, those wealthy Catholic clerics come from generational wealth they inherent.

Jesuits aren't friars or monks, for sure.

I don't think all Christian Brothers or Franciscans are either. They have both contemplative and highly community involved branches, but they take the vow of poverty.

I don't care.

Hemant Mehta on why Francis was more like George W. Bush than Jesus.

r407 Nah, you're wrong and trying to worm your way out by weirdly fixating on my quoting. I know, it's hard when you've been using a term incorrectly your whole life and then get called out on it, especially when you're lecturing someone else on incorrectly using another related term.

The fact is, those women weren't nuns, you just (wrongly) called them that because you didn't know any better. Back then or today.

"I called them nuns when I was a kid and so that's what they are, goddammit! Let me cling to my youthful delusions, and by extension – my youth!"

Sisters. Nuns. The important thing is that everyone gets to sing. And be poor.

Who's doing his job? The new one hasn't been announced.

[quote] Who's doing his job? The new one hasn't been announced.

The Office of the Camerlengo, historically known as the Apostolic Camera, is responsible for insuring the continued functioning of the Holy See upon the death of the Pope. It is headed by the Camerlengo, or Chamberlain, of the Holy Roman Church, assisted by the Vice-Camerlengo, who like the Camerlengo is appointed by the Pope. They will be helped by three Cardinal Assistants, one of whom is the Cardinal Coordinator of the Council, and two others, whose appointments are established in the norms concerning the Vacancy of the Apostolic See and the election of the Roman Pontiff.

During the period of the Vacancy the Camerlengo and his assistants gather reports from the departments of the Holy See, including those related to budgets and finances, so that the College of Cardinals is able to manage the ordinary affairs of the Church. This is necessary because all department heads lose their offices with the Vacancy of the Apostolic See, except for the Camerlengo and the Major Penitentiary.

What Happens to Those in Office When the Pope Dies

Since supreme teaching, legislating and judicial authority rests with the Pope, all but the most ordinary business of the Holy See comes to a stop. The highest office holders, such as the Cardinals and others who are Prefects of Dicasteries and Presidents of Commissions and Committees, all lose their offices with the death of the Pope. There are three exceptions: (1) the Cardinal who is Camerlengo (Chamberlain) of the Holy Roman Church, an office which deals primarily with the period of the Papal Interregnum or Vacancy, (2) the Cardinal who is the Major Penitentiary, and responsible for matters concerning the internal forum of conscience (e.g. absolution from excommunications reserved to the Holy See), and (3) the Cardinal who serves as the Almoner of His Holiness and is responsible for charity “toward those experiencing situations of extreme need, exclusion and poverty, as well as grave disasters” (Praedicate Evangelium, art. 80).

Could we witness the miracle of Donald Trump getting stuck in Europe with no way to come back to the U.S. after the funeral? Sane Americans will see this act as worthy of sainthood for Pope Francis.

R410 is correct.

Not all nuns work in the community, some orders are very secluded.

They may be more likely to work in the community than monks because any man who wants to do that kind of work will likely become a priest rather than a monk, while women don't have that option.

For those interested this is a fascinating documentary of an 18 year old girl who decides to become a Carmelite nun and live in almost total seclusion

Cardinal Giovanni Battista Re is 93 but looks 70. I wonder if he is a Datalounger?

So what do the other popes that accept the salary spend it on? Expensive espresso machines? Can't be a fancy car- I expect them to be driven everywhere.

How the Pope responded to a child who made his way onto the stage where the Pope was speaking.

Gay-org at r426.

R427 - did you say gay orgy?

Interesting note - Vatican and the church says homosexual sex is sinful and immoral, but it's not illegal in Vatican City. Nice. Wonder who they're trying to protect?

This is just ONE of the many drug-fueled gay sex party busts.

What if it’s safe sex with the man you love?

R426 - while that was mildly cute - the mom did that on purpose to get close to the Pope and receive some sort of blessing/miracle for her child who just has limited verbal skills.

She wanted to cut the line and get in front - I have no respect for people like that.

Why didn't get go up and get that child off the stage? That shit would have made me furious.

[quote]Vatican and the church says homosexual sex is sinful and immoral...

To be fair, to the Church, all sex outside marriage is sinful, but only gay sex has been singled out by the haters who are rarely told that their pre-marital sex is immoral.

Well, they are told that r431, they just choose not to give a shit about that part. In fact, every blowjob is "sodomy," but again, straight Catholics mostly just ignore that part of it.

R428 The church does not advocate for homosexuality to be made illegal, though some of the African cardinals might oppose legalisation in their own countries.

The vow of poverty means that nuns give up the right to own any private property. This also means that everything is paid for: their clothing, their food, their rent, their healthcare, etc.

Some (not most) convents have budgets and fantastic cooks and great wines, and the sisters get tickets to the ballet and the opera.

"A look back at the day Jorge Mario Bergoglio became Pope Francis"

You can really see why he was beloved.

I didn't realize that there were so many "firsts" in his Papacy.

Conclave starts on the 6th, apparently.

Forgive me father, but he was HOT when he was young. 🥵🥵🥵

My child, there is nothing to forgive.

The Almighty creates beauty in every living thing for your joy. Be joyful, not chastised.