I don't think the other members of the What's My Line panel liked Dorothy Kilgallen, Part 10

Previous thread.

Congratulations to Roz on finishing out Part 9. I don't think she gets nearly the credit she deserves around here for being an absolute icon. Her WML appearance has to be one of the funniest of all time, too.

I don't know if this 1975 IGaS pilot for a four-episode summer CBS series was ever picked up. Back in NYC (after its dismal syndicated, LA-based, series), with Bill Cullen now hosting & Henry Morgan reprising his panelist role.

Continuing the Martin series, here is the episode with Dorothy as the Mystery Guest.

Dorothy not being on the panel and no explanation given made me curious from the start...

It seems like Martin Gabel was the only male guest panelist in the 1959-60 years we've been watching recently.

Going back to the last thread I just want to say Stephen Boyd was a gorgeous man.

And Otto Preminger was a terrible panelist. I wonder if he ever got Boyd for his next film.

R6 - that's because I've been logging his appearances on the panel with any interesting contestants or mystery guests.

The naval commander in charge of launching the Polaris missile has some strange freezes while John talks.

How strange that JCD would choose to wear cowboy boots in a February snowstorm.

When we get to see more of Dorothy from different angles at r4 I noticed she had a rather odd-shaped head in profile.

Dorothy was the chinless wonder.

Ah, Arelene stands for Dorothy's exit. But that pencil chewer Debbie does not.

Love the Saddle Maker's fur hat.

There has never been anyone like Tallulah. Interesting that she commented on Dorothy's recent illness. I guess it was in the news.

Martin gets out from behind the desk to shake Tallulah's hand.

Midgie Purvis was not a success.

How amazing that there were 17 other actors in that flop with Talullah, not even counting the understudies, including DL faves Alice (Gladys Kravitz) Pearce and young Pia Zadora. Musicals today often don't have such large casts. It was written by Mary Chase who'd had a big hit with HARVEY but MIDGIE PURVIS just didn't cut it. I imagine Tallu knew they were struggling in her WML appearance. I hope Martin's new play was a bigger hit.

I guess Martin's play was this.

Oh yes Arlene says so in her intro.

R14 - It's racoon and she made the hat herself.

Martin headed for Philadelphia in Big Fish.

Barrie Chase uses her own voice which is refreshing for a mystery guest. Maybe a good strategy because she was not known for her voice.

The Circus Strongman is hot.

The Circus Strongman is VERRRRRRY hot! So young and slim for a Strongman.

2 things I'd quibble with:

How JCD could say his services could be concerned with a product.

And JCD could say his work was NOT concerned with balancing anything.

[quote]I don't think she gets nearly the credit she deserves around here for being an absolute icon.

People who complete the usual "doesn't get the credit"/"woefully underappreciated" posts seldom go as far as greasily burping "an absolute icon."

What the fuck is that, for those of us who know what the word "icon" actually means. As opposed to an "icon"?

MARY! is not quite the thing, but "Oh, dear!" is.

Bleak Plugugly and Lyin' "It's a Wrap" Reynolds.

Dorothy's shorter hairdo at r24 was quite becoming. She should have stuck with it instead of adding all those silly wiglets and falls as the decade progressed.

Dorothy 'Dottie' Dodgion.

Can anyone find any photos of Ringling Bros. Strongman John Haly? Preferably in costume.

pic of John Haly

bigger pic

R26 You must be a riot to go camping with.

WML, which would give birth to countless DL threads, premiered 75 years ago today, Feb. 2, 1950.

Sheila MacRae's impersonation of Dinah Shore is spot on.

In its Almanac for February 2nd, CBS Sunday Morning overlooked the 75th anniversary of the birth of this classic CBS show. But not so Sid Vicious’s overdose death.

Yet people still trust network news.

The Kennedy Colonel Pilot has odd hair but I like his tie.

New York Times obit.

The Pro Golfer

Did we ever decide if the other members of the panel liked Dorothy or not?

The jury's out, R41.

Okay, then. Carry on.

Actually, because of all these threads and watching lots of WML episodes constantly, what stands out to me now is Dorothy seems softer and warmer than I'd always thought of her.

It's Bennett I now find intolerable with his condescending and unnecessary "compliments" to young and/or pretty women (or girls, as he'd call them) and his annoying questions upon hearing where a contestant is from that never lead to their occupation.

I also find JCD kind of annoying and unfunny with his inevitable schtick about "conferences" with pretty young women. And his overly articulated answers and explanations.

Arlene remains a gem, however. Never tire of her.

R44, are you seriously going to judge mid-century men, born before the first World War, by #MeToo standards?

[quote]Did we ever decide if the other members of the panel liked Dorothy or not?

I think we're probably going to need at least 10 more threads, R41.

[quote]It's Bennett I now find intolerable with his condescending and unnecessary "compliments" to young and/or pretty women (or girls, as he'd call them) and his annoying questions upon hearing where a contestant is from that never lead to their occupation.

And then there's that gayvoice of his.

r45, there were plenty of men appearing regularly on TV in the 1950s who knew how to behave around pretty young women and didn't condescend to them.

Name them, R48.

r48 Just the gay ones.

Perry Como, Ed Sullivan, Garry Moore, Bud Collier, Jack Paar, Steve Allen, Dick Clark, Martin Gabel, Hugh Downs, Bill Cullen are just a few TV personalities who immediately come to mind.

Funny you mention Garry Moore & Bill Cullen, R51. I was just watching an overnight BuzzR TV 1973 TTTT episode this morning in which BOTH exchanged comments that I immediately thought would never pass muster today.

Don't hold back, r52. What were the comments?

R53, they were so of a sexist era - so common for the times - that I didn’t feel the need to memorialize them. I surely would have had I known these two would be cited less than 24 hours later as exemplars of a more enlightened view of women.

there were plenty of men appearing regularly on TV in the 1950s who knew how to behave around pretty young women and didn't condescend to them.

Martin Gabel seems to be more of a gentleman.

The R38 intro has Martin mention Dorothy is writing a book for Bennett. I guess this turned out to be Murder One which I think was published after her death.

Is that the book about the man the TV series The Fugitive was based upon? Was it a bestseller? I don't remember a lot of promotion on it on WML.

Yes The Fugitive was partly based on the case of Sam Shepperd.

The chapters in Dorothy's book are:

A slight case of frigidity; the defendants: Dr. Bernard Finch, Carole Tregoff.

Motive unmentionable; the defendant: Greta Peltz.

Hootch, whores, and homocide; the defendant: Eva Coo.

Sex and the all-American boy; the defendant: Robert Allen Edwards.

Poison and pedophilia; the defendants: Mary Frances Creighton, Everett C. Appelgate.

When justice took the day off; the defendant: Dr. Samuel Sheppard.

The student/alligator wrestler is very cute.

Bennett had to make a comment about how pretty Suzy Parker is.

And isn’t stomach turning, too, R60, when Arlene & Dorothy comment on the appearance of a comely man?

The Peace Corps Member is also cute.

The alligator wrestler is adorable (wish they'd showed a clip of him in action) and so is MG Alan King!

Love seeing all these contestants in the early 1960s whose jobs revolved around the Kennedy administration. It was a hopeful new America for a few years back then.

What's wrong with saying Suzy Parker (a well-known model, not a nuclear scientist) is pretty?

r65, it would be analogous to Suzy Parker telling Bennett (or Albert Einstein, to follow your example) how smart he was. As if she could make that judgment upon him. Of course, no doubt, Bennett would have been thrilled with such a compliment from a pretty young woman, but probably less so from anyone else he considered his intellectual inferior.

They're the sort of "compliments" that just might've been ok said in private in the appropriate context, but announcing such comments publicly on air seems condescending at best and unnecessary now.

Of course, it was all accepted back then.

R66 I didn't see the episode so I don't know what he said, but it's no longer acceptable to comment on another person's attractiveness? Or is it just when a man says it about a woman? Anyhow, I'm in my 60s, glad I'm old so I don't have to care about any of this shit.

Suzy seems to be a provocateur when she introduces Bennett in R62 at the last man who kissed her.

I'll give you that, r68.

She has trouble questing the Peace Corps member. Do you think it is because she is attracted to him?

R63 - Yes I usually not interested in Alan King but I do find him handsome as the MG there. I noted that no one asked if he had been on the panel when he had been.

I thought maybe this Alan King MG appearance was before he'd ever appeared on the panel. And he didn't really disguise his voice very much so I was surprised they didn't guess him sooner.

Yogi Bear has that ugly sexy thing going on.

That’s Yogi Berra, R73.

Mel Bushman!

Ben Gazzara is another one who had been a panelist before becoming a mystery guest. But he whispers to hide his voice.

Suzy Parker as Mystery Guest.

R77 She's lovely. But I'd better not say so.

Martin guesses the female lifeguard in R76.

Glad to see that Martin took care of that pesky skin tag and had it removed while Arlene was in Germany filing One, Two, Three!

Not to blame anyone, and who wouldn't want to stare upon young Ben Gazzara's face, but didn't we just watch that episode with Ben a thread or two ago? I remember the lady pig raisers and the young senate page vividly.

I remember them too, and the Lebensborn lifeguard. But seems Martin doesn't guess correctly very often.

Interesting to watch Suzy Parker and the way her clothes don't seem to sit on her very elegantly. I don't mean it as an insult but that she wears her beautiful suit like it's just some old schmatte.

Martin guesses again - the Yankees ticket seller.

R82 - people said how hot it was in the studio that night so I assumed that's why she was so uncomfortable.

I’m glad there are six thousand replies to this question. Soon we may start to scratch the surface on this matter.

I have to wonder if Dorothy's TV personality softened considerably as she aged. In these dozens of episodes we've been watching lately from the late 50-early 60s, she comes off as very sweet. Not especially aggressive or bitchy at all, as far as I can see.

These threads should become the basis of someone's doctoral dissertation.

R86 - here's Dorothy over time.

Cranberry bog.

Got some laughs from the Duke of Bedford segment though I have no idea who he is or was.

Looking at her, I suspect Dorothy used to partake of Feen-a-mint on more than a few occasions.

I'm baffled how JCD could insist that the plain clothes policewoman could not be considered working with the police.

The Duke of Bedford was kinda cute. I couldn't tell if the panel or audience really had any idea of who he was.

I googled him and discovered he'd been married 5 times.

Arlene guesses the mistletoe girl pretty fast.

I thinik they liked her.

How sweet of Bennett to kiss Dorothy for Christmas.

Nicholas Wegner prancing for The Boys Town boys.

Hugh O'Brian was devastatingly handsome and charming! He should have had a much bigger career in A list Hollywood films. Far sexier than Rock Hudson IMHO.

I also thought Jacques Lemoine the Venezuelan JCD was rather adorable.

Hugh's play First Love on Broadway was a flop.

The Twister and The Bowler.

Cerf is really quite the jerk, isn't he, r100? He throws out 3 different professions in one question, then gets snippy with Daly about it because in his mind, he'd guessed it- but he hadn't specified which one.

Plus Cerf was excessively smarmy and lecherous in regards to the lady bowler. I know they all did that to a degree, especially Daly, but Cerf was particularly creepy in this one.

Rooney as mystery guest was funny.

Dee Purcello in action.

Love a bowler in skirts!

Watched repeatedly, as we are doing here, the constant "comic" sniping between Bennett and JCD is extremely tiresome and unfunny.

I'm curious why people refer to Daly as JCD or John Charles Daly. Was he ever so identified on the show? I always just thought of him as John Daly.

Bennett always intros him as John Charles Daly.

Bennett occasionally refers to him by his full name. John Charles Patrick Croghan Daly.

John Chawles Daywee, our Panel Modewaiter.

The Ping Pong Ball Seller is cute.

He was no John Cameron Swayze.

R106 That explains it. I always skip the intros!

Polly Bergen pushes her book.

Toots Shor whom John is always talking about.

Move it along, Toots!

Martin introduces him also as John Charles Daly.

The Japanese bicyclist has an odd bouffant.

Not to mention pixellated genitalia.

Other than Polly Bergen, I can't think of a panelist from another Goodson/Todman game show ever making a MG appearance on WML. I guess none of them were big enough stars.

Peggy Cass was twice a MG on the network show, R118. Here, in 1963.

And in 1967.

Tom Poston was also a MG.

Bill Cullen was a MG.

In R119 Bennett asks the Canadian policewomen sisters Are there any more at home like you?

I have been proven wrong 4 times!

I do apologize.

The Bathroom Scales Salesman has a great smile.

How peculiar that neither Peggy Cass nor JCD plug To Tell the Truth once she's revealed at r119.

The entire TTTT panel was also once the MG.

The Golf Ball Retriever in R120 is a cutie.

Am I remembering correctly that IGaS panelist Betsy Palmer might have once been a substitute panelist on WML?

IGaS = I give a shit

Yes Betsy was panelist twice, on March 6,1960 and January 22, 1961.

Cave Mushroom Picker.

OMG Martin introed JCD as John Daly!

No mention of the young hot bursting with enthusiasm Horst Bucholz at r132?! He seemed like a lot of fun. Didn't he come out as bi-sexual before he died?

Yep.

Moving on, here's Chubby and Joan.

Chubby is still alive!

[quote]Moving on, here's Chubby and Joan.

Two of the rare celebrities from the original network series who are still alive.

Joan Collins impresses me with her self-confidence.

Is the lipstick tester a new tranny?

Betsy was a tart.

The lipstick tester did seem to have the shadow of a mustache.

In 1962 Chubby Checker was (however briefly) an ENORMOUS sensation. I'm shocked the panel didn't guess him or even come close.

Bennett's question to Joan about her hairdo verged on very rude.

But JCD got a laugh at Bennett being unable to replicate Joan's do.

The cow manicurist is a big fella.

Arlene is funny when she loses her train of thought with the Tax Collector from 6.15.

Probation Officer and Maker of Nitroglycerin.

I saw Betsy Palmer in a couple of plays (A Doll's House, Same Time Next Year), she seemed to be in/on every show when I was growing up. She was an excellent actress, a good game show panelist. She was even on Captain Kangaroo for a while. She seemed very dikey in Mister Roberts. I get a homo vibe from her.

The curvaceous Wine Steward.

How ungracious of Bennett to tell the pretty wine steward that her hairstyle was "startling" as if he was an expert. Oh yeah, it was a different time.

And then JCD mentioned to Gordon MacRae that he was glad to see he was keeping his weight down.

The Wine Steward was half Elly Mae Clampett and half Jessica Lange.

Which halves?

Clyde Beatty

Wow, I knew about this show my whole life and just realized the name has a double meaning. Like an actor saying "What's my line?" ...not just about someone's line of work.

The lady private detective has a very odd way of walking when she exits.

Paul 'P T' Winter

Raymond Nitschke

Even losing his hair Raymond is still hunky.

Raymond looked kinda like Frank Gifford without hair.

Watch Arlene's Freudian slip where she outs Robert Q Lewis.

It starts at 0:55.

Good catch, R157.

Attitudes hadn't changed that much by the time of the syndicated version. I saw a segment last night in which the panel tried to guess the occupation of a blonde who looked like a stripper, complete with large fake boobs. The sniggering from the panel, especially Henry Morgan, was unbearable to watch. But then, she was obviously chosen for the show because of her sniggering potential.

Raymind was aged 26 but he looks in his 40s.

Raymond.

Bennett insults the Scoreboard Operator in R157 calling him hale and hearty which is code for old.

The Professional Pickpocket gets some fat jokes too.

Shaming people about their weight might have had some salutary effect. We had a lot fewer fat people back in the day. And the fat people then wouldn’t even stand out today in our obese America.

The Bowling Ball Hole Driller is kinda cute.

R164 Finding the good in shaming.

Well, R166, human beings, for good or for ill, do tend to conform to peer pressure.

R167 Yeah, Hitler thought so, too.

As I indicated, R168, for good or for ill.

The WML threads appear to be tgexway.

I think at 10 parts, we can have no regrets.

These threads have been slowing down occasionally for a while now, but they never seem to completely drop off the radar, even all this time.

It's really all about the clips that are generously provided by (I'm guessing) one or two posters. If there's something interesting in those episodes, there's always something to chat about.

R170 - what is tgexway?

I thought the Pickpocket was going to be Raymond Burr's stand-in.

Tgexway!

I have the idea that the camera stayed on JCD when the Pickpocket exited because the audience laughed so much when he entered.

Why do they always save the zaniest lines for the 4th slot when there isn't enough time to play the full game? I'm thinking of the passably cute bowling ball hole driller.

my theory is that the last contestant after the mystery guest is a filler spot because there's no way of knowing how long it will take for the panel to guess or not guess the first three. and also sometimes they take time to chat with the mystery guest perhaps because they have decided to not have a fourth contestant.

I get that, r179, but why save the juiciest guests for the filler spot? So often the last contestant has the wackiest job.

Frances Bolton

Oliver P. Bolton

Arlene stands for Madame Bolton but Phyllis Newman does not.

I noticed that, too, r183. I was waiting to see if ether would stand for the elder congresswoman but only Arlene had manners.

I don't think Arlene was fond of Phyllis. Did we discuss that in one of the earlier threads?

I love the white fur trim on her jacket and matching fur cap.

Bennett in the first seat when both Dorothy and Arlene are out sick.

[quote]I don't think Arlene was fond of Phyllis. Did we discuss that in one of the earlier threads?

Some weeks, Phyllis had to do.

The Human Cannonball is nerd cute.

[quote]Bennett in the first seat when both Dorothy and Arlene are out sick.

That time of the month?

Arlene caught chicken pox but was back the next week. Dorothy was out for 4 weeks.

Here's Dorothy back and JCD says something nice to her about being back.

Love the accent of the R186 Rose Grower.

[quote]Arlene caught chicken pox but was back the next week.

"Chicken pox," my eye! It was HERPES!

Kitty is so happy to guess the Human Cannonball.

Kitty was so often positively giddy when she was the only panelist to correctly identify the principal on TTTT.

Probably crabs.

I think Kitty has a ballpark resemblance to Arlene.

I remember Kitty's freckled body and crepe-y skin on To Tell The Truth.

Arlene returns after her chicken pox.

Carol Channing in R190 says she has not appeared in a western or a comedy but she did The First Travelling Saleslady (1956) which is both.

I think at that point in her career Channing was hoping they'd all forget that wretched film.

The Baby Ape Carer looks like Madeline Kahn.

Kitty's gorgeous gown at r186 would still shine on a red carpet today! And what a beautiful figure it displays on that 5-something lady. I wonder what color it was. I'll guess teal or aqua.

Funny to see Carol Channing less than a year before that Dolly musical would change her life.

But it is odd that she doesn't acknowledge that she was in that comedy western film with Ginger Rogers and Clint Eastwood - I think it was called something like The First Traveling Saleslady - which would have thrown the panel off even more.

[quote]Funny to see Carol Channing less than a year before that Dolly musical would change her life. But it is odd that she doesn't acknowledge that she was in that comedy western film with Ginger Rogers and Clint Eastwood

Ginger Rogers later replaced Channing in "Hello, Dolly!" on Broadway.

The Sugar Salesman is chewing gum. How was that allowed on TV?

In an era when people regularly smoked on television, R205?

Anne Bancroft had great hair.

So, the gum chewer was only chewing gum because he liked to chew gum, not to give the panel any hints?

Rude.

Jolly good!

Anne Bancroft's simple black sheath was the sort of 1960s look sported by Elaine May and ladies of that ilk.

R210 Ladies without style.

The Birdhouse Maker reminds me of Maureen Stapleton.

My son attended the same middle school and high school as Carol. The theater at Lowell HS is named after her.

[quote]The Sugar Salesman is chewing gum. How was that allowed on TV?

It's not like he was eating a meatball sandwich.

Lots of famous people went to Lowell, your son excluded.

Wiki page

Lots of "famous" people we never heard of.

Dian Fossey!

Sid Caesar seemed like such a modest sweet man. Very handsome in his way, too.

Interesting how the Restaurant Doorman girl's hairstyle and simple black dress make her look contemporary as opposed to other clothes and hairstyles that make other women look of the period.

The "doorman" was gorgeous. The same kind of timeless beauty as a young Ingrid Bergman.

That's some necklace the chiropractor is wearing.

And Arlene is dressed like a nun.

Bobby Moore.

I love the episodes that have something to do with the space program. Everyone gets so involved and fascinated and excited. It must have been exciting time to live when everything still seems so possible

[quote]Interesting how the Restaurant Doorman girl's hairstyle and simple black dress make her look contemporary as opposed to other clothes and hairstyles that make other women look of the period.

Her look was of the late period Village beatnik style.

She worked at the Penguin Restaurant which was famous back then.

That space on West 9th has held restaurants since the 1880s. The last restaurant to occupy the space was the restaurant Griffou, but it closed after Covid.

....

How did I miss Dian Fossey, r218? Was she in an episode?

I

It looked like Arlene's right arm was in a sling underneath her black cape.

Dian Fossey is one of the graduates of Lowell High School referenced earlier.

Who IS this person? Is it someone from like thte 50's? Are most people like 85 on here?

Arlene's arm was in a sling after being in a car accident in May, 1963.

On May 26, 1963, Francis was involved in a serious car accident while driving alone from a theater on Long Island to the Manhattan studio where she was expected for a live telecast of What's My Line?. The force from a car that struck her car caused her to skid on the wet surface of the Northern State Parkway, jump the highway's concrete divider, and collide with a car containing five passengers, one of whom was killed. Francis suffered a broken collarbone, a concussion and many cuts and bruises.

Poor Arlene...

[quote]Who IS this person? Is it someone from like thte 50's? Are most people like 85 on here.

You're on this thread and posting comments on it. Are you like 85?

Dorothy stands for Allen Ludden and Betty White.

I wonder if Arlene’s concussion played any role in her future Alzheimer’s.

Now her arm is in her pocket.

I think Arlene stood for the couple because, with her arm in a sling, she couldn't properly embrace them sitting down.

Funny seeing Betty White at that happy moment in her life but knowing that unimagined fame and adoration would be awaiting her a couple of decades later. And that her beloved Allen wouldn't live to see any of it.

Oh yes Arlene stood up to receive Allen's kiss but Dorothy stood up for both.

Arlene using her right hand to shake hands in R238 so must be getting better.

Edie Adams was so adorable. I was surprised the panel didn't guess her earlier.

The jockey reminded me of Lesley Gore.

We're in Dorothy's wiglet phase.

Why is there so much discussion of who stands or doesn't stand for guests?

Trying to keep the thread going for another day.

Shall we discuss changes in the opening credits? Of the fact that the chalk “board” was damn flimsy?

[quote] Of the fact that the chalk “board” was damn flimsy?

With the minimal cash prizes & cheap production costs, Goodson Todman had a gold mine.

Did we ever confirm if wardrobe customized masks or was it DIY?

Yes, R246, the production looked cheap -but Bennett and Arlene commented in print that they were paid extremely well. I don't recall the exact amount, but I believe Bennett once said something along the lines of $500 or $600 for an hour's work. $500 in 1958 would be $5,500 today. Not bad! I sure wouldn't quibble about an extra 20 grand for giving up an hour every Sunday night!

That's still some low production costs for a perennially top-rated show.

The game show also provided someone like Bennett with countless high paying public speaking invites and untold social opportunities among the elite of show biz, politics and the sports world.

The production may have looked cheap but no worse than any other game show of the 1950s and early 60s. It was the Goodson/Todman style, after all.

I think the modern eye is so used to hi-def computer generated visual effects that a simple honest ill-lit, barbarically mic'ed theater stage with a live audience shot in b&w can be quite jarring now.

We've spent so much of the last few threads in the mid-1960s, I wonder if it would be too off-putting to go back to the early 1950s when things were even more primitive (and Arlene was a brunette).

I remember reading somewhere (possibly here at DL) that the sign-in chalkboard was actually a piece of black paper. Cheap and easy to change between rounds.

I wonder if it would be too off-putting to go back to the early 1950s when things were even more primitive

R252 - I was planning on logging the Robert Q. Lewis appearances after I was done with Martin Gabel but I can alternate. His first two appearance as panelist in1951 are not available and his first in 1952 has only the MG of Salvador Dali footage available.

oh wow. IMDB has this episode with Robert Q. Lewis but his spot is actually taken by Peter Lawford.

Robert Q. was a panelist one week - in 1970 - on the syndicated version.

It wasn't about the game, it was about the NYC sophisticates *playing* the game.

Ah the Peter Lawford/Dali show is actually 1957. So the 1952 Dali show is not available.

[quote]So the 1952 Dali show is not available.

Goodbye, Dali.

Beatnik Robert Q. had a secret on a 1959 episode of IGaS.

The comments include a reference to him being a closeted gay man. One claims it was Sinatra who said the Q. stood for queer. My understanding is that it was Arthur Godfrey.

Hello Dali. On IGaS.

Poor JCD had such a hard time with Dali.

Poor Robert and Arlene both look terrible on R256.

Wally loooks the chubbo creative guy fired on Mad Men. Not healthy.

That beatnik segment with Robert Q on IGaS was painfully unfunny. Hard to imagine it was even funny in 1959 when beatniks were a thing.

Success with Robert Q.

The 50s episodes seem to have the beloved perp walk and three wild guesses. And here only the MG gets to say goodbye to the panel.

Which, smartly, came to its demise in around 1955.

and back to Martin,

r267, 3 reasons not to return to the early 50s episodes.

Sally Rand.

[quote]Shall we discuss changes in the opening credits? Of the fact that the chalk “board” was damn flimsy?

The show's modernized intro animation that debuted in 1957 was created by Jay Ward the animator of Bullwinkle.

You can see the similarity.

This is the first season (1959) of Bullwinkle. Note how the graphics were ahead of their time. Very 1960s.

Interesting how Bennett went for a tuxedo in the 1960s. In the 50s shows his suit is lighter-colored.

R272 over 11 hours’ worth!

I was shocked to hear Dorothy ask MG Jeanette MacDonald at r266 if she was under 50 in trying to determine her identity! I thought asking a woman her age would have certainly been considered vulgar in 1952. As it happens, Jeanette was 49 that year so she could safely answer yes.

Robert Q Lewis was kind of cute if you could get beyond the bad skin and the greasy kid stuff in his hair. His glasses were sexy.

Bennett looked very handsome in that lighter colored tweed suit.

Dorothy featuring her jewels and furs so far in the Robert Q shows.

That scene where he is eating a meal and smoking at the same time is gross.

[quote] It wasn't about the game, it was about the NYC sophisticates *playing* the game.

R257 I still remember my 11th grade English teacher saying it wasn’t about the game, it was about the witty repartee among the panelists and JCD. I don’t recall how WML came up in class; it was during the time between the network and syndicated versions.

[quote] Sally Rand

R271 Who the hell is Sally Rand?

R277 - wrong thread.

They guessed Alan King pretty quickly.

Paula Murphy

R281 The brilliance of Dorothy. You can see the wheels turning in her head when she puts together the answers the panel has been given. Watch how quickly she guesses the truant officer's occupation at R281. Dorothy is there to play the game.

Paula had a great smile.

Robert Q and Hitch.

[quote] Dorothy is there to play the game.

Maybe why the other members of the What's My Line panel didn't like Dorothy Kilgallen.

R86. Yes.

But we have to remember, Arlene was a TV personality and sometime actress. Cerf had Random House and his books of humor. Occupations that were far removed from guessing someone's line of work.

Dorthy on the other hand, was a reporter/journalist/gossip columnist read by millions. She HAD to present herself to the public as someone who was a good detective, someone with insight, with perception. That was a requirement of her job and her success. She had a brand to promote and protect.

^ Meant for R286

Handsome Alan King really didn't bother to disguise his voice much.

Alfred Hitchcock didn't attempt to disguise his voice either.

Lee Merriweather did but probably didn't need to bother.

Lee had been a winner in the talent portion, as an actress performing a monologue, so she was just showing off a bit.

The only San Francisco girl to win Miss America.

She was merely showing off her bad Southern accent.

... three wild guesses

At R267 mean to write free wild guesses.

Alfred Hitchcock didn't attempt to disguise his voice either

R290 - he did a French accent but yes his voice is still recognizable. He was adorable.

Monsignor Noodle.

Ah they all stood for the Monsignor.

R283 Dorothy takes the game very seriously. She's there to win.

Edgar's on IMDB.

It's funny how much a show can be improved by just eliminating something as simple as the perp walk. Whenever that happened the show just ground to a halt.

Ah they all stood for Goodson and Todman. But what Goodson said about the panelists was very touching.

The perp walk was demeaning to the contestant and embarrassing for the panel, who never quite seemed to know what they were supposed to do with it.

I also thought the free wild guess at the beginning of each game was ridiculous, unfunny and pretty useless.

Dorothy is cute when she looks to the audience who are laughing or anticipating a laugh.

If you’re ever going n doubt don’t SOS

If you're ever in a jam. Here I am.

Robert Q and Jeff.

Martin and George.

Ah Dorothy did not stand for the priest of the non-smoking clinic but Arlene did.

Robert Q and Merle. Watch the panelists enter the set!

R307 Why does this matter?

So, I guess the panel's entrances at r308 was the first time they did their introductions walking in. I wonder how long it took before they complained and insisted the introduction of the next person could be more gracefully done behind the desk?

How in hell could they not recognize or remember the cow washer lady? She had such a particular look and way about herself. Would any DL sleuths be able to find and post her first appearance just 6 months earlier? Loved her orchid corsage (which older women contestants occasionally sported back then).

Was Merle Oberon freaked out to see another Indian woman in the Green Room? She certainly ran off as soon as her identity was revealed.

r309, we keep track of that sort of thing here.

The previous show on October 10, 1954 had the panel start behind their desks, so as JCD declares, the October 17 show changes the front end of the program.

Not sure I would trust that Dentist as she looks like her dentures are slipping.

The Cow Washer's previous appearance was only in May.

Martin and Debbie.

Is the cow washer available?

I found this on a thread about Joey Heatherton, of all people. Dorothy's final show.

I find that very hard to watch, knowing what was to come just a few hours later.

Watching that cow washer in both of her appearances (thank you r312 for finding and posting the second one), it's really astounding the panel didn't recognize her 6 months later. The line of questioning even went in exactly the same absurd fashion.

They didn't guess this later Cow Washer either.

The Wax Museum Guy.

The audience in R315 was full of horny dogs based on their enthusiasm for the plain Dynamite Saleslady and the Football Writer.

The policewoman in R318 didn't appear to know what admonish meant.

I don't know why the panel had to be blindfolded for the Lord Mayor of London's footman. His outfit looked like he could have been head doorman at The Ritz.

Funny how the panel never got around to thinking the cow washer dealt with animals.

Are we finally winding down?

Come on, everyone.....only 277 more posts to move onto Part 11!

Robert Q and Dick.

Iris Blitch

[quote]Iris Blitch

Iris *Faircloth* Blitch

Blitch was a bitch

[quote]A staunch segregationist, in 1956, Blitch was among the 101 Southern politicians to sign the Southern Manifesto.

Well, Dick brought June and June brought her muff.

Because it's June, r328, June June June.

I have to laugh at how the Fish Counter made JCD pick up her purse for her before she exited.

Was curious about how it was said Dick Powell was at the last show.

The fish counter had a lovely aristocratic elegance to her.

I didn't know that Ray Milland had his own sitcom in the 1950s.

Bennett comments that Dick Powell and June Allyson are in the front row of the October 31 show.

Knowing June, she probably had to take a piss and they jumped through the first stage door they came across.

I have a very vague memory of Ray Milland's sitcom which I think I watched in summer morning reruns when I was about 5 years old. And liking it! I think he played a college professor in it.

I wish they'd given him a little time to speak after his identity was revealed. So often JCD gropes for words to say about the MG and one of the panel tries to help him out but it's often rather awkward....until Arlene closes the segment with an encouraging zinger. But the guest doesn't get to say much, as was the case here.

Interesting that Ray Milland had his own TV show while still playing lead in film like Dial M for Murder.

Martin and Steve Allen.

[quote]Interesting that Ray Milland had his own TV show while still playing lead in film like Dial M for Murder.

Which co-starred, in addition to Grace Kelly, Robert Cummings, also known for his 1950s TV sitcom.

I'm sure we've seen the Honey Maker before but he reminds me of a cartoon hero.

Robert Q and Ginger.

Mystery guest Dr. Kildare, looking very very handsome.

Edward Morse.

G Mennen Soapy Williams.

The casting director was rather handsome.

Anyone know what the dramatic/musical TV special was that Ginger performed in?

I'm a little freaked out that I'm wearing the same eyeglasses that Bennett wore in 1954.

She did an episode of Producers Showcase which was broadcast in October.

Martin and Jayne.

Martin is funny the way he gapes at Jayne.

Robert Q and Louis.

Martin and Jayne didn't seem to have much personal affection even though they'd starred together in a play a few years earlier.

Dorothy guesses the Santa Claus man pretty quickly.

Martin and Peter.

Bobby Nichols still alive!

R339 Both shows happened after Dial M for Murder.

But is Joey NIchols still alive?

No, r354, Ray Milland's sitcom was simultaneous to the film release of Dial M. 1954, his TV series was on between 1953 and 1955.

The Cummongs show wasn't.

Would love to know what private things the Shoe Lace Maker said to Bennett and Martin.

A little surprised at the big reaction Peter Lawford gets from the audience when he enters.

R359 He was JFK's brother-in-law. In 1964 that was a very big deal.

I would have said that by 1964, that wasn't such a big deal.

Mourning Becomes Electric on WML

Robert Q and Dan.

Martin and Paul.

Estelle Parsons talks about working with Arlene on the Home show, esp. after 1.30.

Love that, r365. I don't doubt Estelle Parson would tell it like it is, so her endorsement of Arlene is quite heart-warming to hear.

Paul Anka must be one of few surviving mystery guests.

No love for the young pigeon racer raiser at r364? I thought he looked like a rock n roll star. His white socks and smile were dazzling!

It's hard now to go back to those 1950s MG guest segments when the panel wasn't limited to just one question at a time. They always seemed like they were hogging it all.

R367 Jane Fonda, Liza, Barbra, Diana Ross, Woody Allen, Sofia Loren, Fabian, Mamie Van Doren.... there are a number of them still with us.

And Robert Wagner, Kim Novak, Joanne Woodward and Eva Marie Saint.

Has anyone else heard the loud male laugher in the 1950s shows? I assume he is one of the crew.

Though never a Mystery Guest, Pat Boone was a panelist in 1958. Still with us.

Robert Q and Esther.

R369 - But Martin questioning Paul Anka is like the Gestapo.

Er I meant Martin questioning the pigeon racer. Who was a cutie yes.

R368 Can you please give the time on the video?

20: 30.

Thanks.

Lots of laughs with the Chicken Eyeglasses salesman.

I couldn't give you the year/date, but Pat Boone (guessing around 1958) did indeed appear as a Mystery Guest (as well as appearing on the panel).

It was 1958, R381.

I didn't know Esther could sing. I guess MGM didn't think she could sing well enough for Jupiter's Darling cos she was dubbed.

I remember the r182 episode the last time around because of Martin calling Bennett a humanitarian after Bennett makes a sleazy comment about the hypnotist.

Meant r382

If I'm not mistaken, Esther sang in certain movies (like Neptune's Daughter--"Baby, It's Cold Outside"). Maybe in Jupiter's Darling,, the songs were too demanding or she had to sound okay singing with Howard Keel.

R381 Thanks for the correction.

Martin and Eddie.

R371 And to add to those, here are other celebrities that are still alive, who appeared as Mystery Guests on the original 1950-1967 broadcasts:

Carol Burnett, Joey Heatherton, Anna Maria Alberghetti, Ursula Andress, Julie Andrews, Margaret O' Brien, Candice Bergen, Chubby Checker, Joan Collins, Mia Farrow, Connie Francis, George Hamilton, Shirley Jones, Aliza Kashi, Nancy Kwan, Abbe Lane, Carol Lawrence, Hayley Mills, Noel Paul Stookey (of Peter, Paul & Mary), Tommy Sands, Nancy Sinatra, Jean Shrimpton, Dick Smothers, Pat Suzuki, Leslie Uggams, Tuesday Weld

Wonder what they're doing right now.

Was Aliza Kashi really famous enough to be a MG in the original run?

Aliza Kashi appeared as both a panelist and a mystery guest on the syndicated version.

^Never heard of her until just now.

I didn't mean R392 never heard of her, I meant I never heard of her.

[quote] Was Aliza Kashi really famous enough to be a MG in the original run?

She wasn't famous to be on the syndicated version. After recently appearing as a panelist. She gave Soupy hints so as not suffer the ignominy of not being recognized.

Aliza Kashi appeared as a panelist during the original run in 1967. But never as a mystery guest. Sorry for getting that wrong.

That 1967 episode features Abbe Lane as Mystery Guest. Both Aliza and Abbe are still with us.

She wasn't famous enough

She was all over TV for a short while there. A number of appearances on the Merv Griffin show. Mike Douglas. Did the Ed Sullivan Show. I remember her.

I mostly remember Aliza as a vivacious guest on the Merv Griffin Show in which she charmingly mangled the English language. Her singing, IIRC, was overwrought and humorless. But she had a sensational figure and great hair. I think she was mostly forgotten by the 1970s.

Robert Q and Fred.

Some laughs from the lady Men's Barber.

[quote]I mostly remember Aliza as a vivacious guest on the Merv Griffin Show in which she charmingly mangled the English language.

Genevieve, Charo, Reiko, Aliza Kashi....making fun of accents and mangled English was a thing on talk shows for a couple of years back then. It was all in good fun, but you couldn't do that today.

It also wouldn't be particularly funny now.

Martin and Jason.

There is a funny argument between Martin and Arlene in the Diaper Pin Maker segment.

Sometimes Arlene seems a bit embarrassed by Martin's clueless questions and gaffes.

Marty, get it together!

Robert Q and Audie.

Ooh the panel intro's in R407 are right to left! And they sing Happy Birthday to Dorothy.

R402 I never heard of any of those people except Charo. I think she made fun of herself.

What a boring world we live in now, where we have to pretend things that are funny aren't funny, because of PC.

r409, just imagine yourself in China today....or for that matter France.....and you're doing your best to speak their native language and the natives are all laughing at your pronunciation and foreign accent. Hilarious, right?

For R409.

and Aliza.

[quote]just imagine yourself in China today....or for that matter France.....and you're doing your best to speak their native language and the natives are all laughing at your pronunciation and foreign accent. Hilarious, right?

It had nothing to do with that. There is no comparison.

It was part of their act. They were very much in on the joke.

r409, you referred to "the boring world we live in now."

It's hard now to go back to those 1950s MG guest segments when the panel wasn't limited to just one question at a time.

R369 - the show at R407 says it's the first where the panel is allowed only one question at a time to the Mystery Guest.

R414 Yes, I did refer to that, but I'm not R413. I do agree with R413, though.

Martin and panel spouses.

That lady DJ had a bad attitude.

The thread is dying, Egypt, dying.

Cleo, we still have the YT-available episodes of the 7-season, syndicated series to closely parse.

Bennet's wife looks like Dana Delany.

Here's the whole show that the 15 year anniversary show of R417 shows a clip from.

The panel's going to have to dig!

I can dig it. I'm hep!

---Dorothy Kilgallen

[quote]What a boring world we live in now, where we have to pretend things that are funny aren't funny, because of PC.

Robert Q as Mystery Guest.

Ah this is the episode where Arlene laughs as the audience tells her she has guessed the motorcycle lady cop.

That's actually one of the greatest moments on the show, with the cameraman clever enough to be on the panel when the audience erupts, so we get to see Arlene's reaction.

Very funny watching the panel look at themselves 15 years earlier at r417. Back then it would have been a rare treat to so easily be able to do that. All the comments about hair were hilarious.

Yeah, that lady DJ seemed to have a chip on her shoulder. Gloria Swanson, however, was delightfully gracious and modest. Imagine that she was celebrating her 50th year in show biz, beginning in 1915. And not only admitted it but was proud of it.

Unfortunately the July 17 1955 show is unavailable to me.

Martin and James.

In think Carol is a bit dumb but she is so daffy to be funny.

I think ...

Robert Q and Lucy.

Could we see some MGs we haven't seen yet? Or not in a long time? Maggie Sullavan, Ava Gardner, RJ Wagner, Irene Dunne, Charlton Heston, Olivia and Joan, Walter Brennan, Henry and Jane Fonda, Cesar Romero, Tyrone Power, Esther Williams??

Robert Q Lewis is not going to prolong Part 10.

I know- post them yourself, bitch. Still.....

Margaret Sullavan.

I remember the London Pickpocket the last time around but props to him for being a good sport about all the fat jokes.

In time, as Dorothy slipped into drinking more and seeing other men while her marriage sank, the other cast members lost patience. As noted earlier in the thread, Bennett Cerf complained openly about Kilgallen's driven need to win the game. Her appearing drunk on the show was an embarrassment to everyone.

Not that they all didn't drink plenty.

At the time of her appearances, Margaret Truman and Kilgallen lived in the same apartment building.

Por James Mason. How embarrsassing!

Margaret Sullavan was quite adorable even with her Mamie Eisenhower do. I think she was quite beloved among her colleagues.

I found the hippopotamus minder oddly sexy.

Her appearing drunk on the show was an embarrassment to everyone.

I can't recall any show where she was obviously drunk.

Martin and Lucy 1965.

^ Buddy Hackett was a good panelist.

I certainly don't remember any episodes where the other panelists seemed annoyed or embarrassed with Dorothy, either for her rabid gamesmanship or her drunkenness. I know Bennett commented on her competitiveness in that great late in life interview he did, but I don't think he ever let his resentment show in real time.

Ava Gardner

Wasn't Ava once billed by MGM as "the most beautiful animal alive" and r445 is great evidence of that, especially considering the barbaric lighting and tech in that old TV studio. More than any of her films, you get a truer sense of what the woman was like in person and real life.

Ava was beautiful. The first time I saw her was way back when I was a kid and the movie One Touch of Venus was on tv. Wow.

I like the submarine Lt. on before Margaret.

It seems to be a thing in these threads to refer to a mystery guest segment then post the whole episode without any reference to the time it occurs in the episode.

Mr. Pete Sa was too easy. Am surprised it took the panel so long to guess him.

[quote]It seems to be a thing in these threads to refer to a mystery guest segment then post the whole episode without any reference to the time it occurs in the episode.

It's the last segment. Just skip to the end.

[quote]I don't think the other members of the What's My Line panel liked Dorothy Kilgallen

They liked her but they didn't lick like her.

Buddy Hackett was a good panelist.

Maybe but I hate his babytalk schtick.

The Passport Lady had an impressive beehive.

Robert Q and Hal.

Martin and Maurice.

Robert Wagner.

^The first MG after my birth! Ironically, RJ became a treasured friend of my sister.

Re R454 here's Gale Storm's hit song.

I think they overstate the supposed beauty of the Rodeo Trick Rider in R454.

[quote]r440 = Margaret Sullavan was quite adorable even with her Mamie Eisenhower do.

Her daughter was on the homely side.

The previous week from R455 when Dorothy appears although with a shoulder injury.

[quote] The first MG after my birth! Ironically, RJ became a treasured friend of my sister.

Why is that ironic?

What, if any, adjective, would be the preferable?

Robert Q and Debbie and Eddie.

The panel all stand for the exit of Maurice Chevalier. Also he bumps into the set on the way out!

r463, unexpectedly?

Robert Wagner #2

That Calypso Trio number in R456 was very cute.

Robert Wagner IRL was so much funnier than he ever got to be in his movies.

Martin and Jack.

The Sing Sing Warden was also on To Tell the Truth.

There was lots of cross-pollination among the Big 3 Goodson-Todman shows, R471.

The Goose Caller is only a college boy but already losing his hair.

The Knife Throwing Target reminds me of Patty Duke.

Robert Q and Art.