Barbara Bel Geddes

[quote] We never talk about her.

Thank you R1 for proving my point - we never talk about her. That thread is almost three years old and there are three responses.

I think BBG was contractually obligated to have weepy sad face or cry in every episode of Dallas.

She was no Kim Stanley

I only talk about her episode of Alfred Hitchcock Presents where the cops eat the cooked leg of lamb she killed her husband with earlier. Bet she wished she never did the show.

[quote] we never talk about her.

Never talking about her means not a single post or discussion about her. That thread is but one example. As r5 indicated, she is discussed in other threads that are not specific to her (see Rear Window and Dallas threads).

I always liked how Larry Hagman and the others said she was a foul-mouthed chain smoker on the Dallas set. We here at DL love our cunty old bitches!

From her obituary published in the Washington Post (link doesn't seem to work here):

"When she was 16, her mother died, and she was sent to Putney School in Vermont. She was dismissed from the school after she was discovered kissing a boy."

"She had difficulty finding work in Hollywood after refusing to name names during testimony before the House Un-American Activities Committee."

"She retired in 1966 to care for her second husband, Broadway director Windsor Lewis, who died of cancer in 1972. She was "flat broke," she said, when "Dallas" came along."

On the cover of Time magazine in 1951.

She is one of those people like Gertrude Lawrence or Kim Stanley who must have some extra in person on stage - off of the top of my head - The Moon is Blue, Cat on a Hot Tin Roof, Mary, Mary - I “‘ll look - didn’t she do The Gazebo? Those are really plum parts for a plain lady. I know Larry Hagman was crazy about her.

She looks like Joanne Woodward at R9.

That was garbled - I meant she must have had “magic” on stage. ^ Julie Harris always had sparkle.

Ok - she wasn’t in The Gazebo - BUT she was in the OBC cast of The Sleeping Prince aka The Prince and the Showgirl. Again - she must have had something “Extra” to play a role like that.

[quote]Julie Harris always had sparkle

#MeToo

[quote]Ok - she wasn’t in The Gazebo

No -- that was DL fave Jayne Meadows!

She killed Donna Reed.

She always looked like a girl who was born with the girth you saw before you.

"Mary, Mary" was a HUGE hit on Broadway in its day.

She was plain. And she had a schoolteacher's voice. Decent actress, but not a lot of range.

Mary!

Mary! X 2

She's very moving both in "Caught!" and in "Vrtigo."

She rarely got much interesting to do on Dallas, but in the episode for which she won an Emmy--when her character has a masectomy--she's excellent.

I always get embarrassed for her in Vertigo when Jimmy Stewart yells at her over the painting.

A critic of the first revival of Cat said star Elizabeth Ashley was more vaginal than Barbara. When it was posted here, a poster replied that so was Mel Gibson.

She had the build (and look) of a midwestern cornfed linebacker.

And you can't talk about Dallas without talking about how poor Donna Reed was treated horribly by them.

[quote]I always get embarrassed for her in Vertigo when Jimmy Stewart yells at her over the painting.

And to add to her lot in life, her name was Midge.

My post at R6 should’ve read Vertigo rather than Rear Window.

r22 I found her rather ho-hum in Caught!

Loved her as Midge

Midge was a bitch!

And Skipper was a little whore!

Skippa is Dead!

Boo!

Katrin

Not hot, a flattering photo from an accomplished photographer

R8- She was dismissed from the school after be discovered kissing a boy- was her mother a Miss Joan Crawford?

Apparently Barbara knew where to find the BOYS.

She was the taller version of Patricia Hitchcock.

When Tennessee originally wrote CAT he envisioned Maggie as an entitled former cheer leader/Queen of the Prom type to go with Brick's former football hero/King of the Prom. Hence, the casting of former girl-next-door Barbara Bel Geddes. It wasn't until Liz Taylor's steamy portrait of Maggie in the film that the role was seen as a sultry vamp.

DL fave Lois Nettleton was her understudy for Maggie.

And Lois wasn't the sultry type either.

[quote] Apparently Barbara knew where to find the BOYS.

Barbara, please! Please, Barbara!

She's a less attractive Nancy Olson

Lois Nettleton always looked as if she'd just been crying.

I will forever see Lois Nettleton’s face as she discovers George Costanza picking the eclair out of the trash basket.

Another previous discussion:

We don't really have actresses anymore who are foul mouthed, chain smoking bitches and it's a shame.

Hello, r45!!

[quote] DL fave Lois Nettleton

I had no idea Lois was a DL fave. She was also the obsession of one of my favorite authors, James Ellroy. Maybe he is a DLer!

Bel Geddes told People: "They're always making me play well-bred ladies. I'm not very well bred, and I'm not much of a lady."

But wasn't Barbara the daughter of famed theatrical designer and industrial architect Norman Bel Geddes? Once called the Leonardo da Vinci of the 20th century.

She wasn't exactly brought up in a shack.

R49, yep

There's a 10-page chapter about her entitled "The Prodigal Daughter" in her father's biography, "The Man Who Designed the Future," by B. Alexandra Szerlip.

(Click the links twice and the text should be large enough to read.)

Thanks for that book excerpt! Very interesting. I never really knew all that about BBG. I knew her from Dallas and knew she was the original Maggie and was in Vertigo, but that is it. Didn’t know she had a famous father.

Funny someone mentioned Nancy Olson—the first time I saw Sunset Boulevard (in high school) I thought she WAS Bel Geddes at first.

Like others, I wasn't really familiar with her earlier work, but as I recall, she really brought a quiet dignity as the Ewing matriarch, sort of the quintessential southern belle that seems very sweet, but would cut a bitch if necessary.

Besides that chapter in the book, there's just a couple of other interesting things about BBG that the author mentioned.

When she was a teenager she became involved with her cousin and told her father that they were going to get married. This went on for awhile. After she'd been expelled from school she went to Ohio and reconnected with this cousin. Apparently, it was quite the young romance. And again she, said they were going to be married and would elope if they had to. Her father was rather perplexed about what to do and was also concerned because the boy's parents apparently said it was perfectly acceptable and they were okay with it. Her father didn't know these relatives well. The boy's mother was his deceased wife's sister.

Toward the end of his life, her father was becoming financially strapped, and she had to loan him money to keep things going. He then died very suddenly of a heart attack at age 65.

Nancy Olson was a real beauty who resembled Grace Kelly far more than BBG; no comparison to plain-Jane BBG, really.

Olson is still alive at 96.

The many lovely faces of Nancy Olson.....

When the time came to film Mary, Mary Hollywood bypassed Barbara for a bankable star -Debbie Reynolds. According to several who saw BBG onstage, Debbie's performance in the film was a note-for-note impersonation of Bel Geddes. I actually know people who swear that Bel Geddes was in the film! A tribute to how indelible BBG was in the role, and to DR's abilities as a mimic and actress.

Clearly, playwright Jean Kerr loved BBG, as she allowed her to create another leading role in her play Finishing Touches (1973).

BBG’s famous father, Norman, besides being a famed celebrity designer, was quite a character, even dressing as a half-naked wild Indian to greet his guests. Growing up as the daughter of such a center of attention must have been a challenge for BBG. She had to get love from somewhere, and why not an audience.

She had more luck on stage, getting a variety of roles. But films cast her in a succession of secondary supporting roles, if that. Still, apart from “Vertigo,” I like her best in George Stevens’ heartwarming, but much underrated family saga, “I Remember Mama” (1948).

She was only nine years older than Larry Hagman.

Was Mary Martin really much older, r63?

Has anyone ever seen or read MARY, MARY? For such an enormous hit, it's completely unknown and/or forgotten now. I don't think there's ever been a NY revival, major or otherwise.

Even the film, has anyone seen it?

What's it about? Is it reviveable?

R65 There was a revival of it off-off-Broadway at the Gene Frankel Theatre in 2019, a very limited run. Other than that, it sounds like something one might see a community theatre group trying to stage.

the film

Mary Martin was nine years older than Barbara Bel Geddes. Mary was 19 when Larry was born.

Nancy Olson would have been a great replacement for Miss Ellie in the Donna Reed season. They looked remarkably similar.

Did Hagman know that Mary Martin was a lesbian?

Mary Mary, the play, used to be a staple of community theaters, but like most shows it was done so much that audiences tired of it. The film is pretty much a straight filming of the play script, with several of the original cast. The plot is simple:

Mary and Bob McKellaway are recently divorced and haven't seen each other in six months. Bob is planning to remarry the much-younger (and rich) Tiffany, but he's enmeshed in an IRS audit of his publishing firm. The play opens with Bob's tax lawyer, Oscar, going through Bob's finances and warning him that he cannot afford to marry Tiffany. Worse news - Oscar has invited Mary to come over and go through some old checks in hopes of remembering if they are legitimate business deductions. Mary arrives fresh from Elizabeth Arden's and looking amazing. Bob is rude to her and they fight. Enter Bob's old friend, Dirk Winston -a big Hollywood actor who has written his memoirs and wants Bob to publish them. Bob hates the book, but jokingly suggests he'd do it if Dirk would take Mary (and her alimony) off his hands. When Dirk takes Mary to dinner, Bob goes crazy. The story is predictable, but the dialogue is sharp and clever. In the hands of decent actors it's a very entertaining evening. It ran for nearly four years/over 1500 performances. Datalounge favorite Maggie Smith played Mary in London.

For a play that's supposedly been done everywhere forever, I'd bet very few of you old queens know it at all.

I can recite most of Act One from memory...

BBG had at least 3 nose jobs over her career. The 1948, likely original version, in I Remember Mama was quite the schonozla. OP's photo is after the third.

Barb was a pretty good actress. Yet I wonder, why did I get all those wonderful part on Broadway instead of dear Barb. And of course, one shouldn't forget my more-than-one Oscar nominations. But go ahead, I do see that you like to discuss the lesser actresses as well as, you know, me.

[quote]Did Hagman know that Mary Martin was a lesbian?

Everybody knew that broad was a dyke.

[quote]For a play that's supposedly been done everywhere forever, I'd bet very few of you old queens know it at all.

It wasn't "done everywhere forever," even if someone above said that. It was done everywhere but only for a limited time.

It stopped being produced widely long before I was an adult, and I'm close to sixty.

R77 you are right - I’m 59 when I was a teen ager - at school and community theatre I never saw Mary, Mary. When I was a theatre geek teen it was - Butterflies are Free, Barefoot in the Park,Star Spangled Girl, Come Blow Your Horn, The Odd Couple, 6 Rms River View, plus lots of Man WHO Came To Dinner, You Can’t Take It With You, …. by that time no one seemed to be doing Two For the Seesaw either.

Oh and everyone did “Same Time Next Year.”

Knew she was Broadway but didn’t know she originated “Maggie the cat”-great clip you guys can find anything.

From r66 review:

[Quote]EDITOR’S NOTE: This review originally included a passage where the reviewer criticized disrespectful comments she overheard in the audience. However, at the time we didn’t realize that by calling out the comments could do more harm than good. Because of that, we have removed the passage from this review.

Was the audience calling the show’s star fat?

Of the photos posted here, I'm not seeing any difference in BBG's nose over the years. It might just be the different camera angles that appear to change the shape of her nose.

Bel Geddes had such a lovely mellow voice.

You said it, R83! I think her voice really made me love Miss Ellie.

R84- Miss Ellie was one of my favorite characters on Dallas. She was low key and had class unlike JR who was vulgar and shady. Even Jock was low end and tacky and ruthless.

Did BBG ever get it on with Howard Keel? I could see that....

Alfred Hitchcock Presents: The Foghorn.

I’m trying to remember—didn’t Miss Ellie come from money and disappointed her family when she married Jock, who wasn’t rich yet?

R86- Howard Keel seemed like an old queen 👸 to me- so there would never have been any getting it on with Miss Ellie.

R89 - a million years ago in the 80s I worked bunch of tv awards shows. I can’t remember which show it was - but on a rehearsal afternoon there was a large gathering of the “talent” in a banquet room. There was a very tall , tan virile, handsome man at the end of the room. He was about a head taller than everyone else - it was Howard Keel. He must have been well into his seventies by then. He didn’t look it - wow - I can’t imagine how handsome he must have been as a young man!

R88 I'm not a Dallas expert, but as I recall, Miss Ellie inherited Southfork from her parents, with her father having once been a successful rancher.

She was the narrator and star of “I Remember Mama” with Irene Dunne (who I adore). I watch it and sob like a baby every Mother’s Day.

[quote] When Tennessee originally wrote CAT he envisioned Maggie as an entitled former cheer leader/Queen of the Prom type to go with Brick's former football hero/King of the Prom. Hence, the casting of former girl-next-door Barbara Bel Geddes. It wasn't until Liz Taylor's steamy portrait of Maggie in the film that the role was seen as a sultry vamp.

So Maggie is a Patty Symcox type?

The bobbed nose was a mistake. She looked like a lantern jawed German peasant. In I Remember Mama she had a more delicate look.

Jock Ewing has an opinion about Miss Ellie

[quote]I can’t imagine how handsome he must have been as a young man!

News alert: They've invented something called photography that might assist you in seeing for yourself.

Miss Ellie’s family, the Southworths, had owned Southfork since the 19th century.

They were going to lose it during the Depression, when Jock Ewing (who was disliked by Ellie’s father) married Ellie and paid off the ranch’s debts. Ellie married Jock for money and grew to love him.

I don't know if Barbara is considered an Actors Studio girl. Her wiki page doesn't say she studied there. Her acting uses some stammering and word repetition which is an Actors Studio realism thing.

In OP's pic, BGG appears to have some kind of bizarre crossbite, as if she's trying to hide a lizard in her mouth.

Yes, R23.

And we never see her again.

Some very interesting insights from her in this article.

[QUOTE] We never talk about her. Why not?

Because she's a somewhat obscure actress that only a certain type of Eldergay would have a thing for. Or would even be blinkered enough to believe that she is still a thing, in 2024.

DL's eldergays live in the 70s/80s and watched everything that was on tv back then. They can remember every episode of every tv series and every tv movie from 40-50 years ago. It's unbelievable.

I can't remember what happened on an episode of SVU I saw last month.

Well these DLEGs can't remember where they put their dentures, R103.

I always thought Sada Thompson was the poor man's Barbara Bel Geddes.

R105 see R44

Only someone who had only seen Barbara Bel Geddes in Dallas and Sada Thompson in Family would think there was anything similar about them.

R92 Kim Stanley was better as the narrator of To Kill a Mockingbird (adult Scout). She did it uncredited.

[quote]"Kazan was really brutal to me during Cat [on a Hot Tin Roof]. I don't think anyone saw me as Maggie the Cat. Certainly, Roger Stevens didn't: he always looked at me as if I were a rash that just wouldn't clear up quickly enough. Everyone saw Maggie as beautiful and slinky and seductive, and I'm a bit of dumpling, well-meaning, the girl you marry but begrudgingly fuck. I get it. That's me. I can live with that--and have. Kazan, however, told me I was attractive, maternal, and he could see why Brick, a homosexual who marries only to quiet the family, would find me amenable. Kazan also knew that I had been a very fat child and fought my weight at all times. Kazan told me that he had known many former fat girls who had grown into beauties, and no matter how they looked in photographs and no matter how many beaux they gained, they still thought of themselves as fat and ungainly and unloved. 'Use that,' he told me, and again, I was a mess, because not only was I the fat girl, but I was the woman who was married to a gay man who hated her; who was fighting an avaricious and brilliantly manipulative family; who was determined never to be poor again; who was really fighting for her life. Kazan made me really live inside this woman's pathological fear, and it drove me crazy, but it also drove me to a good performance.

BBG would have made a much better Eve Harington in All About Eve than Ann Baxter. Far more believable as a wide eyed admirer and then confidant and having the acting chops to make the later, conniving aspect of Eve works. She had a similar built and colorings as Davis's, as originally was intended for Margo and Eve (Baxter was cast along Claudette Colbert, whom Davis replaced at the last moment). And BBG was the same age as Baxter, not an Oscar winner but already a nominee, and with a stage background and reputation Baxter lacked (and it showed onscreen).

And even if it was all about being a descendent of a top notch American designer, she had about the same pedigree as Baxter's.

But Mankiewicz was a great admirer of Anne Baxter. he wanted her to be in A Letter to Three Wives when it was a Letter to Four Wives.

Good old BarBel. All of my Gen Z students are huge fans of hers and have her old lines memorized.

Was BBG ever on Mama's Family?

Amazon refers to her children's book, "I Like to be Me" as a "collectible" and have a copy for $300+. However, you can find other (hardback) copies of it going for about $50.

Someone at eBay has a copy for sale and the listing includes several photos of pages from it so you can get an idea of what it's about. It's a simple concept, but her drawings are kinda cute.

[QUOTE] Amazon refers to her children's book, "I Like to be Me" as a "collectible" and have a copy for $300+. However, you can find other (hardback) copies of it going for about $50

You can't put a dollar sign on that. It's priceless!

Love that she did the illustrations as well as the prose! Looks very sweet and beguiling.

She did a follow-up the first book about a decade later called "So Do I."

I always like Bel Geddes. When played by her, Miss Ellie was the most interesting character on Dallas. A decent character who was tough and able to stand her ground against people.

Why are the little figures she devises for CHILDREN’S books - r114 r117 - always depicted NAKED??

It’s outrageous. Disturbing!

Midge is one of the most thankless roles of all time.

R119 Not only that. But it's pretty obvious they're all gender nonconforming! And the very idea, "I Want to Be Me" ??? Radical propaganda.

Nepo with the blandest persona .

R105- You've got that wrong

KAY is the poor man's Sada Thompson

and David Groh is/was the poor man's James Caan- as every datalounger knows

note the hot hairy chest

All I see in that photo is the man who beat the shit out of Bobbie Spencer, r124.

[quote] David Groh

I love the Foo Fighters too!

Original production of Cat on a Hot Tin Roof New York Times review.

Bel Geddes is vital, lovely and frank...

Miss Ellie seemed like such a lady and gave the Ewings a very strong heart and a reality. I honestly felt like the Ewings were real. When I met Linda and Larry years later it was magnificent. Linda turned and beamed at me, calling me handsome. Larry gave me mon ey with his face, as JR on it. They were just so nice and friendly and everything youd hope your childhood icons would be. They clearly liked each other too.

She was born to play Ellie. Even at 20.

She was a loyal Dem and a staunch supporter of Trans rights.

R103 The soap operas are easier to remember, because they had continuing storylines to them with impactful moments, plus a prime time one like Dallas was later rerun on TNT, TNN, and SoapNet. (Isn't Dallas streaming on Amazon Freevee right now?) Then there are fans who have put clips up on the tube sites from their old VCR tapes as well as websites that have episode guides detailing storyline. .. And we can't forget about the elder gays who still have all their old copies of Soap Opera Digest that contained detailed summaries of these shows.

R131, I wish I had saved my SODs.

In the late 1990s or early 2000s a few magazines (Playboy, Rolling Stone, The New Yorker) put out digital sets of all issues — I’d love for that to be done with SOD.

[QUOTE] She was a loyal Dem and a staunch supporter of Trans rights.

Yes. She (and Sylvia Rivera) gave us our rights.

I believe she was close to Marsha P. Johnson.

They first met in one of Lee Strasberg’s acting classes.