I don't think the other members of the What's My Line panel liked Dorothy Kilgallen, Part 9

Previous thread.

Why doesn't anybody like me?

Shelley Berman panelist.

When did June Allyson turn into Rose Marie? All that's missing is the bow.

Johnnie Ray liked you, Dorothy. Doesn't that count?

June introduced her new off the forehead hairstyle in her TV series.

I have to laugh at Shelley's laughing at the rocking chair maker. It's fun when his hysterics infect Dorothy too.

It's hard to imagine that if Johnnie Ray wasn't gay....the woman he'd be having sex with was Dorothy Kilgallen.

I always imagined her as a kind of Mrs. Robinson, convincing Ray that she could "straighten" him out...

Well, r8, I know Johnnie was deaf but was he also blind?

Plus when he speaks in the episode at the end of the last thread, 10 purses fall out of his mouth.

R7 and R9 ... what are you saying? Bennett and the male guest of the week always raved about how beautiful the "girls" of the panel were. Surely they couldn't have been lying!?

Arlene is a handsome woman with a sexy, coquettish way about her - more attractive at 50 than she was at 30, which might account for some of her relentless flirting (making up for lost time, that is).

Dorothy is no beauty, but she's not repulsive, either. She probably mothered Johnnie and made him feel protected and loved - plus they were probably both drunk as skunks when he fathered Kerry.

If you read Ray's bio at Wikipedia, it seems he remained emotionally attached to her and was deeply upset by her death.

Were any of Dorothy's vacancies due to visits to a "spa" for her drinking?

A new thread has to include the posting of my favorite contestant - Toni West.

Toni at work.

last Shelley Berman as panelist.

Johnny Ray makes me feel ill. I can not imagine anybody finding him attractive. Absolutely the most confounding star I have ever seen

1959 June

That Branch Rickey has the personality of a door.

[quote] Over the next few weeks, Ms. McGee showed off her skills on “The Tonight Show Starring Johnny Carson” and “The Mike Douglas Show.” She was also on the game show “What’s My Line?,” where the actress Arlene Francis correctly guessed what Ms. McGee was known for before the three other panelists had a chance to ask any questions.

Patti McGee's WML appearance.

Here's the whole show.

Liza was only on the show that one time.

June Allyson 1960.

Dorothy's anecdote to June is a backhanded compliment. That woman has a pretty dress and a wonderful figure. It's June Allyson?!

Torps flea circus

Dorothy stands for a nun at the start of her segment.

ooh they all stood for her exit.

Kind of sad to watch Judy Holliday in that MG moment at r15. She had just opened on Broadway in a HUGE flop musical called HOT SPOT in which she played a daffy Peace Corp worker (I think) in Africa Terrible reviews after tortuous out of town tryouts and creatives being fired left and right. IIRC there was finally no director even listed in the Broadway Playbill. It was written by Mary Rodgers (daughter of Richard) but it was no ONCE UPON A MATTRESS, Mary's previous show. Mary didn't have the nicest things to say about Judy in her bio.

The run probably didn't last much longer than that WML appearance. But she and JCD and the panel put on good faces and talked about the show as if it was a triumph. Of course, Judy's performance probably was triumphant in any case, her final Broadway show, I think. A brilliant career cut short if there ever was one.

Hot Spot musical

I wonder if the pretty blonde dental technician from West Point at r23 didn't get any whistles or catcalls on her entrance because her Private 1st Class uniform intimidated the wolves in the audience. She was certainly more attractive than most contestants.

Maybe they were put off by the mole on her face.

Judy Holliday is also in the episode with Toni West and I think tries to parody Toni's sexiness. Big mistake!

The space airman is kind of cute in this other Judy Holliday episode.

Dorothy and Arlene both stood for Norman Vincent Peale as he exited. Did he write How to Make Friends and Influence People? Was that the title?

Did Toni West go on to perform in show biz? She was quite adorable.

Lots of dick jokes later in the segment with the bell hop.

[quote]Dorothy and Arlene both stood for Norman Vincent Peale as he exited. Did he write How to Make Friends and Influence People? Was that the title?

No, dear. That was Dale Carnegie.

NVP's big thing was the power of positive thinking.

There was a stripper named Norma Vincent Peel.

R34, have you ever heard of the newfangled thing-a-ma-jig that all the kids use called [bold]GOOGLE[/bold]?

Hint hint.

Why google when I have my dear friends here to answer my queries?

Donald Farrell in space

Toni West ... was quite adorable.

Arlene gets in a few quips about her.

Everybody stood for the 78 year old bartender lady too.

Everyone stood for Eleanor Roosevelt. Was she also a 78-year-old bartender lady?

I hate it when the camera stays on John Charles Daly rather than showing us someone exiting via the panel. And I hope whoever decided to insert that Look magazine ad during the exit of Dr. Norman Vincent was FIRED.

Bobby Darin

Got some chuckles from the cow mattress salesman segment though his hair is weird.

Episode with football player Raymond Nitschke

I like the bobby pin salesman too.

The bobby pin salesman looked like a footballer player, too. Kinda hot!

I had to look up Vaughn Meader. A novelty performer of the JFK era.

Vaughn Meader's JFK impersonation and comedy albums were quite popular for a brief period, but his career came to a crashing halt on November 22, 1963.

Popular? It was the biggest selling album of its time.

Not to sully this thread with talk of the election, but I know I'm going to continue to watch episodes of "What's My Line?" and fondly remember when America really was a smart nation.

Like the reindeer raiser.

The reindeer raiser could have played Popeye without prosthetics.

Arlene never looked as pretty as she did in that episode. Very refreshed!

r44: the tugboat chef was so delightfully charming, and the cow mattress manufacturer was hilarious. And Alan King was so sexy.

The porpoise trainer is a big gun.

Dorothy stood for Bette Davis' exit.

Dame Bette!

Art Linkletter as Mystery Guest.

Art exited BEHIND the panel - first time I have seen someone do that.

Linkletter had been a guest panelist numerous times.

Art first time as Mystery Guest 1956.

He played with children!

R54, Arlene looks great. Those fluffy 1960s hairstyles were flattering on her, and she’s wearing a beautiful dress she wore for several seasons – black (?) velvet (?) with a long, flowing skirt and mink-trimmed bodice. It’s a timeless silhouette and the mink sets it off nicely.

Maybe it was the lights or something about her makeup, but her face looks completely unlined and relaxed in that episode, r64. Yes, and she always rocked a halter strapped dress.

Art first panelist.

Art panelist

Maurine

Why do we keep focusing on episodes featuring old dowdies like Art Linklater, Jack E Leonard and Shelley Berman when so much hot beefcake in its prime appeared on WML? Where are Sean Connery, Hugh O'Brian, Jim Garner, Vince Edwards, Richard Chamberlian, Rober t Wagner, Tab Hunter, et. al??

R69, perhaps people are trying to post episodes that haven't been posted before. All of the men you mention have already made appearances over these many threads. However, since you asked for beefcake, here is hot-as-a-firecracker Ben Gazzara as the MG on September 3, 1961. He was also on the panel a couple of times. (This has definitely been posted before, but what the hell. He's gorgeous.)

[quote]perhaps people are trying to post episodes that haven't been posted before. All of the men you mention have already made appearances over these many threads.

If it weren't for repetition, we wouldn't be up to Part 9 and counting. We can hardly expect posters to comb through eight previous threads to try to avoid repeats. That said, this thread was created two weeks ago, and the pace has slowed down, understandably.

The play Martin was in rehearsal with in R67.

Poor John Charles works like mad to get that senate page boy to relax but fails.

I swear one of those pig raisers is in drag. Despite the tight dresses, not one wolf whistle.

It's interesting to see that some of the curvaceous attractive women did NOT get wolf whistles. The shipboard operator didn't, and she was a Scandinavian blonde bombshell.

Also, the very stylish Black Lincoln Tunnel toll collector but I wonder if that was intimidation by the color of her skin.

The female lifeguard in R70 is pretty in a lebensborn way.

At first, I thought lebensborn might have been auto-correct for....well, you can guess what. But googled it and the lifeguard indeed was of the Lebensborn persuasion.

Art panelist

The running joke with Art is that he never does very well with the game guessing and he always looks so hurt when he gets a no.

Genevieve was very charming at r78. Did anyone in America ever figure out what she did other speak in a funny French accent? Whatever became of her?

Same episode, I couldn't figure out why JCD was, at least initially, so insistent that roller skates were not worn. Also thought it strange that he and the contestant said that men's and women's versions of the product looked the same. As a child in 1961, I remember women's skates were always white or beige and men's were black or brown.

Wiki on Genevieve.

She was an Edith Piaf type.

Her stepdaughter (Ted Mills' daughter), Alley Mills, starred in the TV series Wonder Years and was married to Orson Bean.

That’s making a full circle on the panel game show routine.

Genevieve had quite a luscious and powerful voice, as heard in r82. I'm sad her career didn't last longer. I had only thought of her as one of those personalities Jack Paar would have on constantly, just to chat and amuse.

Art panelist

Darren McGavin panelist.

Sam Yorty

Previous appearance of Mr. Singh.

Sam Yorty could not even properly pronounce the name of the city he governed. A hick.

The anesthetic doctor in R85 must have been under the gas when she did her hair for the show.

Darren McGavin is hot at R86. There was almost a glut of sexy men men in that late '50-early '60s era. I wish they could send some our way!

I love Dorothy's dress. McGavin is right - it's a dress made for doing the Twist, and I'll bet Dorothy was a champ.

Since this multi-volume thread has come to encompass the entirety of the Goodson-Todman oeuvre, the death of distinguished journalist of Jim Hoagland has a connection to the Goodson-Todman family. Hoagland's widow, Jane Stanton Hitchcock. is the daughter of Joan Alexander, a regular on The Name's the Same, an early '50s game show.

The Name's the Same.

the play Darren McGavin was in at the time of R86

I worked with Darren McGavin around 1990. By then he was just a gruff old man. Crotchety.

I'd had a daddy crush on him as a wee gayling from, I think, a TV series called River Boat.

R88 shows us there was a WML board game!

Of course there was, r96. Although it doesn't appear to be a board game.

Riverboat

OMG, Darren McGavin, Burt Reynolds and Aldo Ray all in one episode of Riverboat? How did Barbara Bel Geddes bear it??

Art panelist

Art finally guessed one right!

Like Fred in earlier years, Art hogs too much time for himself.

Art panelist

Poor Jackie Mayer… as a young wife she suffered a massive stroke and had to re-learn how to walk and talk.

Art hogs too much time for himself.

I think when someone is used to having their own TV show it's hard for them to be in an ensemble. Groucho was another one guilty of same.

[quote]OMG, Darren McGavin, Burt Reynolds and Aldo Ray all in one episode of Riverboat? How did Barbara Bel Geddes bear it??

Gallons of lube.

Zanuck may have been a brilliant businessman, but he had the personality of a brick. I saw an interview with Celeste Holm where she said the same thing.

Arlene was a bit tipsy in R103.

I can't remember the panel ever coming off as dim and clueless as they did at r103, led by Art Linklater, skirting around all the obvious clues to the first 2 contestants to little avail. Perhaps Arlene was a bit tipsy as even she didn't think she could be correct when she stumbled onto the female jockey.

They were finally somewhat redeemed by Bennett's correct guess at Miss America but, as we've discussed in many DL threads over the years, back then, becoming Miss America was practically akin to winning the Presidential election (for a woman, anyway). And she'd only been elected a couple of weeks prior to her WML appearance.

A somewhat painful episode to watch.

Mayer seemed like a very nice person. She graduated from Northwestern, so she was no dummy. She had her stroke after a Thanksgiving dinner, which would probably wreck anyone's cardio vascular health.

[quote]Art Linklater

LINKLETTER

DIANE

Art panelist 1963

John Charles mentions to Carol Lawrence they had her husband on recently.

r114 is the infamous episode in which Dorothy appears to have a mini-stroke as she attempts to introduce Bennett. Or perhaps she was trying very hard to stifle a sneeze. Or a yawn.

Also, fun seeing all those brilliant Englishmen Dudley Moore, Peter Cook, Joanathan Miller and Alan Bennett when they were just the very beginning of their careers. Arlene raved so very highly of their newly opened Broadway show Beyond the Fringe, it really made me regret I never saw it. I wonder if the humor would still hold up.

Have a look

Bennett gives Dorothy a dirty look in the Mystery Guest segment when she asks two questions.

And Art LinkLETTER continues to annoy me with his obnoxious questioning......

Can't locate the Robert Goulet 1964 episode but here is his 1965.

C. Charles Nash.

Robert Goulet, Robert Goulet, my God, Robert Goulet!

Grouch was the worst panelist. I hated him. He could tone it down for a whole 22 minutes of filming?

Groucho was a funny man but had a huge inferiority complex because of his lack of education. So he had to be the smartest one in the room. This could be exhausting to witness.

Groucho is among the few, if not only, comic(s) from his generation I find funny.

[quote]Grouch was the worst panelist.

The dwarf? His name was Grumpy.

No comments on the mega-hunky sewer cleaner at r120?? I wish we could have seen him in a less baggy suit.

What is about Robert Goulet that he looks vastly more handsome at r119 than he did in his earlier appearance? Is it just the tan?

R126 - Arlene quips We must go into more sewers, Dorothy.

Arlene is funny with the cow manicurist.

1955 Rosemary Clooney.

Mrs. Strom at r130, the creator of "Brenda Starr" was delightful! She could easily have been a Goodson/Todman panelist herself.

I wondered if maybe Dorothy was pregnant during that episode and it's why the panelists didn't enter? Or were they never entering back in 1954?

I didn't know Dale Wessick was a pseudonym.

[quote]On April 24, 1955, she appeared on What's My Line? After Dorothy Kilgallen correctly identified her as a comic strip artist, the panel was given a full description of her real name, professional name and job as "illustrator" of Brenda Starr, Reporter.

[quote]On May 5, 1960, Messick appeared as a contestant on To Tell the Truth. None of the panelists correctly identified her.

[quote] She said in a 1986 article in the San Francisco Chronicle, "I used to get letters from girl reporters saying that their lives were nowhere near as exciting as Brenda's. I told them that if I made Brenda's life like theirs, nobody would read it."

Dale Wessick was Mrs. Strom's maiden name, not quite a pseudonym.

Oops, sorry, I misspoke. Dale Wessick was indeed Mrs. Strom's pseudonym as she changed her first from Dalia to Dale to disguise the fact that she was a woman. There was something of a prejudice against women comic strips artists when she began.

Thank you to r133, who so generously provided the wiki with that info, which I should have read before posting.

Well,, r134, it was half a pseudonym that was meant to deceive.

Arlene had some bumbling with the tax collector at R29. See from 6.20.

[quote]I wondered if maybe Dorothy was pregnant during that episode and it's why the panelists didn't enter? Or were they never entering back in 1954?

The "parade of panelists" started sometime in '55 or '56 (I'm sure someone here will know exactly when), but after the April '55 episode at R130. Dorothy's last pregnancy was in '54. She gave birth to her son Kerry on March 19, 1954.

Around this time in early 1955 they eliminated the awkward walk of the contestants past the panelists - where it was never clear who would shake hands and who wouldn't - and the stupid, waste-of-time random guesses. All three changes were major improvements, which is presumably why they lasted until the end of the series.

[quote] I didn't know Dale Wessick was a pseudonym.

I thought she was a Protestant.

Here's November 1955 and they still are seated at the opening of the show.

No one ever expected or considered themselves worthy to expect Groucho Marx to be part of an "ensemble."

Starting with his brothers, about whom the same can be said.

Such low-end "reviewers" here, among so many great ones!

R140 has the appearance of the small conference paddle!

December 1955 and the panelist ENTER!

Interesting that both Arlene and Dorothy are without their white gloves there at r143. Dorothy continued to wear hers for her entrances well into the 1960s.

They entered the week before too.

First show for entrances appears to be November 27, 1955.

Re R67 - who knew Tallulah was so nice?

Tallulah again.

Sad now to think what a big deal the Macy's-Gimbel's rivalry was. Everybody around the country knew about it, and many other cities had their own mini-version with competing department stores. There was something exciting about a big department store that shopping online or at Costco will never equal.

Also, re the IRS Commissioner: The top Federal income tax rate in 1955 was 91%. Anyone earning enough to be in the top bracket likely had various loopholes and dodges to reduce what they owed (there were even more back then than there are now), but still ... damn. 91%.

^^^Oops! R149 refers to the show at R143.

How nice for Martin to compliment Dorothy's power of analysis in R148.

R149 The chief chemist at Clairol also referenced does Macy's tell Gimbels. That was quite an interesting episode including two male models.

Watching a BuzzR TV overnight 1974 episode of TTTT from last night, one of the imposters was future actor Timothy Patrick Murphy, then a high school sophomore, who died of AIDS in 1988. His fellow imposter, another then-high school sophomore, was the future record producer Shep Pettibone.

Re R148 and the dresses of Arlene and Dorothy. Maybe because it's summer or the 1960s but the fabrics seem less formal.

Bennett was outspoken and highly dismissive of rock and roll stars, women's sacque dresses, Biblical epics and Henry Morgan.

Yet, R155, both Bennett & Henry aligned on their utter distaste of rock & roll.

....and Waiting for Godot.

Part 9 is drying up—

Two frumps and Green Acres.

Ben-Gay lotion penetrates.

Gay penetration has always worked for me!

Watching BuzzR TV overnight of an another 1974 episode of TTTT from last night, there was a principal, Kenny "Claude" Sacha, a female impersonator of Barbra Streisand & Bette Midler, who, too, would succumb to AIDS (in 1992).

More about Kenny "Claude" Sacha.

That was the only time Eddie Albert was on the show.

What took him so long?

His wife Margo was never on the show.

Name two Margo movies, r166.

The Leopard Man

Behind the Rising Sun.

[quote]His wife Margo was never on the show.

She was too busy helping her father behind the notions counter.

My favorite Margo movie was the original Frank Capra Lost Horizon.

Eddie and Eva at r159 are so sweet! How lovely for them to have such a late in career success with Green Acres.

JCD looks like death warmed over. He really aged rapidly in the mid-60s. Was 1966 the final year for WML's original run?

Suzy Knickerbocker always seemed so benign for a gossip columnist. Was she of a kinder breed than Dorothy, Hedda and Louella?

the end of its network run on September 3, 1967.

Suzy Knickers aka Aileen.

The *legendary* Aileen Mehle...

Was Suzy famous for ever breaking any scandals or stories?

Watching BuzzR TV's overnight 1974 TTTT episodes, I make it a point to see if I can learn what happened to the identifiable contestants. In just the last couple of weeks, two of the principals died very young. A 10-year old trapeze artist died at 16 in 1980 from a fall during a practice session, & an author of a book about plants also died in 1980, from cancer at the age of 34.

Suzy/Aileen New York Times obit

I remember Suzy's son once appeared as a special mystery guest. He was in the armed services, in uniform, and looked nothing like you might expect her son to look.

I'll leave it at that.

Her son was quit successful in his own right.

quite*

The son died just last month^

Suzy as panelist 1

Suzy as panelist 3.

Suzy was a very sharp player. I wonder if she would have become a permanent panelist had the show lasted longer.

I know R184 is a repeat with the handsome John T. Pennel.

Suzy as panelist 4

Larry Blyden was so cute ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[quote] [R114] is the infamous episode in which Dorothy appears to have a mini-stroke as she attempts to introduce Bennett. Or perhaps she was trying very hard to stifle a sneeze.

R115 The first time I saw that, I thought she was reacting either to the copious amount of “greasy kid stuff” in Buddy Hackett’s hair and/or the cologne he might have slathered on because he schvitzed so much that he wanted to cover the odor for the classy ladies he was sitting between!

[quote] I remember Suzy's son once appeared as a special mystery guest. He was in the armed services, in uniform, and looked nothing like you might expect her son to look.

R179 If I recall correctly, her son Roger had come home early from the service, unbeknownst to her. When she realized it might be him, she screamed out “Roger?” almost in disbelief.

I enjoyed Suzy’s visits on the panel. I thought she was camp and didn’t take herself and the game as seriously as Dorothy did.

R190

I see the lovely and talented Arlene Dahl was the mystery guest, and she mentioned she was appearing as Margo Channing in Applause. A little research revealed that the show had been recorded with Bacall for television but might not be available today. Any ideas where I can see this?

It's on YouTube, R192.

Tragique!

New for 1972, by Coty.

Arlene Dahl.

The beefy Ferry Boat Captain is sexy.

Anne Baxter in Applause

Arelene with Fernando.

I think the Professional Pickpocket and the Ferry Boat Captain would both be very welcome on our Fit-Fat Thread.

Arlene Dahl always had a beautiful face but a rather matronly figure.

There must have been a nicer way to describe the fat men's clothing store owner.

In R195 either the tape jumps or Arlene exits abruptly after she is guessed.

Arlene 1959.

Arlene “the living” Dahl.

r202 has the deliciously catty remarks between Dorothy and Arlene (Dahl). Dorothy just keeps digging deeper and deeper. Arlene won't hear of it.

*2* REDHEADS *2*

Charlie Conerly was handsome.

What episode is Charlie Conerly on? I thought I'd watched all the recent links but don't remember seeing him.

Never mind. I see him at r202. I had only watched the MG part of the show with Ms Dahl.

His wife is the first contestant in R202 as the newspaper columnist and then he appears at the end of her spot.

Fernando Lamas wasn't classically handsome but he OOZED sex appeal.

And once again, they put the most fun guest in 4th place and left little time for the panelists to have fun with her. I'm talking about r198. Bennett was really such a letch. He never would have survived the 21st century.

Arlene Francis has a great laugh when Fred quips Fernando appears to be a silent star.

R204 I don't get the sense that Arlene Dahl is being catty. But she certainly arrives with an attitude. See how she reacts against JCD when he wants to have a conference.

Poor Dorothy was only trying to throw Arlene Dahl a compliment about her silly sci-fi movie but when she foolishly gushed that Arlene would surely be Oscar-nominated for Journey to the Center of the Earth, Arlene was rather ungracious.

Was Arlene Dahl pissed that Dorothy guessed Rhonda Fleming by mistake? Is that why Arlene said I thought you saw the movie?!

My mistake. she said Maureen O'Hara.

David Niven's first appearance on the show as the MG seems to be not available. His first appearance on the panel was in 1956.

Bennett references Ben Grauer, a person I am not familiar with.

First contestant Charlie Robertson.

I loved the vivacious comedy writer lady at r216. I wish they'd had more time with her, she certainly was more interesting than the Reno card dealer.

What are the years of the missing WML episodes? 1951 & 1952?

Had to look up Jo Stafford's early days on film.

Jo had perfect pitch and impeccable musical taste.

There are some 1952 episodes on YouTube but not the David Niven as MG one.

David Niven as panelist again 1956.

Barbara Hammer became Barbara Avedon.

[quote] Jo [Stafford] had perfect pitch and impeccable musical taste.

R222 All the more reason why her alter ego, Darlene Edwards, who sang perfectly out of tune and with terrible musical style, was so funny.

[quote] Fernando Lamas wasn't classically handsome but he OOZED sex appeal.

R210 Lamas was also funny. During an interview on the Johnny Carson show, he was intimating about canoodling with some Hollywood starlets, and when Johnny asked how he handled that sort of thing with his wife Esther Williams, Lamas shouted, “Deny, deny, deny!” Carson, being a great straight man for comics, began to ask Lamas other questions about his questionable behavior, to which Lamas kept answering, “Deny, deny, deny!” The audience roared with laughter each time.

[quote] Bennett was really such a letch. He never would have survived the 21st century.

Why? It hasn’t hurt Trump.

r225, how did you make the connection between the two Barbaras? Unless I'm missing something (perfectly likely!), IMDb doesn't seem to list her former 1950s credits with her original name.