Judy Garland got ripped off by life

Because of capitalism? So much great art and music has come out of socialist/communist countries, hasn't it, you indoctrinated fool.

She didn't get ripped of by life. She threw it away.

R3, you can't argue she was exploited to the point of harm by a system that made money off her. You're quite literal though aren't you, so don't overreact when I say calm down or your head will explode, because it won't, really. But if it did it wouldn't matter because you're obviously an angry moron.

Not quite, R4.

If she were born later, she’d have been diagnosed bipolar and medicated. And, quite likely, doing a lot of DBT to address her Borderline tendencies.

I just don’t think, particularly given the limited understanding of Bipolar Disorder (and BOD) in the 40s, 50s, and 60s, that she had the autonomy to “throw it away”. It’s a painful, wildly unstable diagnosis and one will do what they can to ease the pain.

You’re stupid, R4.

Just watched this clip. Like hearing this song for the 1st time.

R8, Alcohol was very much a part of Bette’s life.

R5, she let herself be exploited by human greed and her own personal demons. You don't think exploitation took place in communist countries? Read the Gulag Archipelago for a start. Mass slavery, mass murder? Nothing compared to the evils of capitalist Hollywood. No, my head won't explode, I'm getting used to dumb, uneducated fools like you. It is almost comical how stupid people like you are and how clueless you are about your own ignorance.

How we got to the Gulag Archipelago (in only ten posts!) in a thread about Judy Garland is beyond me.

R10, decaf. And maybe get laid.

To me her most impressive scene in A Satr Is Born (acting) is when she has the talk with Oliver Niles (Charles Bickford) about Norman in her dressing room, with the fake freckles on her face.

* Or in A Star Is Born

Capitalism, R11, that's how.

Judy was one of the most talented singers ever. She also had a lot of pain and struggle throughout her life. Despite that, she had a good heart, which is hard to encounter in Hollywood. At a time when gay men were oppressed beyond belief, they identified with her struggles, and she theirs.

Having read a few bios of Judy, as well as a day-to-day timeline. It interested me how she had a lot of trouble showing up for work at MGM - going back to the middle 1940s. But right after leaving MGM, she did a show on Broadway at the Palace (winning a Tony) and was able to show up for that every night on time and give an amazing live performance. She also repeated this in London at the Palladium. After she was fired from MGM, Bing Crosby immediately had her on his radio show for numerous appearances. She also later seemed to be there for her TV show and appearances on shows like The Hollywood Palace. I have no answers but have wondered about the discrepancy.

She had sleep problems (probably stemming from when her sleep pattern was disrupted by MGM and given drugs). She had a lot of insomnia, and migraines. She had a hard time getting to a movie studio early in the morning (or even later in the day). She was no morning person. And I think she had a lot of passive-aggressive tendencies towards MGM, a love-hate relationship. Maybe making movies just was not her thing.

I always think of how she called people late at night. Many friends were very indulgent to her about it. I read about how she would always call June Allyson and one night Dick Powell had to get on the phone and remind her June had to get up in the morning and go to work! Poor Judy, poor friends.

OP, Judy was mentally ill like her older sister. Show biz or not, she wouldn't live to see 50.

Ripped off by David Begelman:

[quote]In 1993, a book by Coyne Steven Sanders, Rainbow's End: The Judy Garland Show (Morrow 1990), about the history of Judy Garland's CBS Television series The Judy Garland Show (1963–1964), devoted a chapter to possible embezzlement of Garland's funds by Begelman. Garland's estranged husband at the time, Sid Luft, hired an attorney to audit her income from the time Begelman began representing her with fellow agent Freddie Fields. It was discovered that several hundred thousand dollars were missing, much of it written in checks to "Cash" and endorsed by Begelman at various casinos in Las Vegas. Other entries in her accounts showed large sums paid for "protection" with no authorization, all approved by Begelman, though Garland had no personal security. In addition, a 1963 Cadillac convertible, given to Garland as partial payment for appearances on Jack Paar's television program, was titled to Begelman. Garland never knew the car was part of her compensation for her appearance.

[quote]In addition, Begelman told Garland a photo existed of her, partially nude, having her stomach pumped in a hospital emergency room after a drug overdose in London, and that blackmailers were demanding $50,000 to turn over the picture and all negatives. As she was in negotiations with CBS at the time for her new television series, Garland paid rather than face the adverse publicity and potentially damaging the deal's prospects. Luft's attorney eventually determined that the check went to a holding company with a business address in New York City owned by Begelman, and was further traced to a personal account of Begelman.

Kirk Douglas said a good illustration of Hollywood was that David Begelman got a standing ovation at the Academy Awards, while Cliff Robertson (who Begelman ripped off and embezzled from) was blacklisted for revealing the truth about Begelman.

She wasnt exploited any more than any other show business phenom. Her mother introduced her to amphetamines and barbiturates before she was 12. Whitney as well was introduced to drugs by her brothers long before her first success. There are examples of great talent going down the drain in a haze of substance abuse and examples of those who do not. Having great talent and huge success early in life is hard to handle. For whatever reasons, neither Whitney, nor Judy had there wherewithal to handle it. Sure sharks were all around- but that does not consign blame to them.

PS, Judy was long gone and lost well before Begelman took advantage of her. He tried to step in on early Streisand too and got nowhere. Judy simply never had the ability to take care of herself from a very early age. She was, like a good addict, incredibly adept at keeping the flow c of substances going, even when broke- normal addict behavior.

I am a huge fan of Garland. Her talent was gargantuan and her work, show biz genius. But her life was in large part was incredibly tragic. And I gather her addictions turned her into a bit of a monster, which very normal in those as deep into it as she was-

[quote]Read the Gulag Archipelago

Will it make me as much fun at parties as you?

[quote] PS, Judy was long gone and lost well before Begelman took advantage of her. He tried to step in on early Streisand too and got nowhere. Judy simply never had the ability to take care of herself from a very early age.

I don't understand, are you victim-blaming? The things he did were serious crimes. It doesn't matter who he did them to. She had as much right to her earnings as anyone else. She literally got ripped off, which is the subject of the thread.

[quote]I always think of how she called people late at night. Many friends were very indulgent to her about it. I read about how she would always call June Allyson and one night Dick Powell had to get on the phone and remind her June had to get up in the morning and go to work! Poor Judy, poor friends.

Montgomery Clift was the same way. He was a lonely, needy, insomniac who would call friends at all hours of the night, chatting endlessly with exhausted and exasperated friends. Eventually, those friends abandoned him to save their health and sanity. Not surprisingly, Monty and Judy were good friends. They probably had the same dealer.

[quote]Not surprisingly, Monty and Judy were good friends. They probably had the same dealer.

Snide

The fact that these people were friends, and put up with more than one late night phone call, ought to prove to anyone that there was something there that was worth putting up with.

Judy was good to a lot of people and a lot of people liked her. Leslie Caron said the person she remembered being the most sincerely friendly and welcoming when she came to Hollywood was Judy. Yeah, later most of them were sick of her because she was chaotic. I don't think she was as bad earlier as she got to be later.

It goes without saying that Judy was one of the most talented singers ever. She also had a lot of pain and struggle throughout her life. Despite that, she had a good heart, which is hard to encounter in Hollywood. At a time when gay people were oppressed beyond belief, they identified with her struggles and she theirs.

You said that already.

Yes, R21, and it might actual put an interesting thought or two in that empty head of yours.

Yeah, R28, I’d agree with you, but then we’d both be wrong. I don't think you're the kind of person I want to be. You type like a before picture.

R28 At least I can spell "actually".

When you look at her TV specials from the early 60's, it's shocking how old and bad she looked and she was in her early to mid 40s!

But what resources were available then? People really didn't talk about addiction, abuse, or go to therapists. And women had it particularly rough.

R31 It was a TV series. If that's what you're referring to. The Judy Garland Show. 1963-64. I don't think she was "shockingly" either old or bad looking.

She definitely did go to therapists. She also tried getting rid of her addiction at a couple of places - Peter Bent Brigham hospital in Boston, for one.

She needed medication for bi-polar. No amount of drying out can help that.

Her too?

Armchair psychoanalysis

R15 Ha! Ha! I’ll say.

[quote]For whatever reasons, neither Whitney, nor Judy had there wherewithal to handle it. Sure sharks were all around- but that does not consign blame to them.

Pretty ugly, Charlie.

I feel bad for Ethel Gumm in certain ways. She was married to a gay man who was getting involved with teenage boys and got run out of town. She had a boyfriend, who followed then to California when they moved from Minnesota...but I don't blame her. She probably needed to turn to someone. Judy resented her for making her get an abortion for her career when she was married to David Rose. I don't blame Judy for that. Also, not unusually (for young Hollywood stars, then), Judy more or less supported the mom and sisters and they lived in Judy's house. It must be weird supporting your family when you're a teenager. Judy's estranged mom died while working as a file clerk in Santa Monica and was found slumped between two cars in her work parking lot, in her late 50s. Judy's dad (ten years older than her mom) had died at 49.

Grand Rapids, Minnesota was in the "Goiter Belt" (where food was grown in iodine-depleted soil) and both parents suffered from the condition.

[quote]She needed medication for bi-polar. No amount of drying out can help that.

Where does this diagnosis come from? It's modern gibberish. Judy had a drug and later drug + booze problem. I'm certain amphetamine use mimics mania to a degree. Those things get worse if not treated and hers got worse.

A therapist in Boston told her flat out she was too much Judy Garland and not enough Frances Gumm, which Judy refuted explaining that everyone LOVED "Judy Garland", so what could being more Frances Gumm ever do for her. It's a very basic question. It never resolved in her favor.

She drank Blue Nun wine. She called it “the blue lady.”

R38, Ethel Gumm was a miserable bitch. Judy called her “the real wicked witch of the west.”

R36, please see R9 from the linked 2014 thread.

R40, You can’t get much cheaper than that.

Patty Duke said she believed Judy was bi-polar, and if anyone knew how to recognize bi-polar...

I agree. I love them both. Keep in mind also, that cunt Ethel didn't want any more children, then along came Frances. Ethel would go out of her way to tell anyone who would listen Judy was unwanted and a burden, always making sure Judy was within earshot. That's gotta fuck with your head, which is probably why the fat bitch did it. I don't think Ethel was playing with a full deck herself.

Popularity of wines and wine brands change over time. Wine drinking was not that popular then. There weren't these wine stores with thousands of wines. That was a popular brand at the time.

One of Judy's biographers said Judy had asthma as a kid, and that Ethel would bed her down in the back seat of their car and drive out to the desert (when they lived in Lancaster, CA) and drive her around all night so she could sleep, in the dry air. That sounds like a pretty devoted mother.

Also - amphetamines were given for asthma in those days. Maybe that's when Judy first encountered them.

Judy was basically sold by her mother to MGM. Judy didn't know the business side if things; why wud she. She didn't know how to be a business person and she didn't know her worth. When she needed rest she wasn't allowed enough time off. When they eventually fired her, she was set adrift..and wasn't rich. Sid Luft steered her to huge success but once again Judy didn't understand business and She ended up owing the taxman. She had little or no other avenues to take; she wasn't educated; she had to keep on that treadmill and everyone took advantage. It seems eerily similar with Britney and Whitney too..they weren't qualified to do anything else and people were making money so they had to keep singing. Judy was absolutely not responsible. She was a sweetheart.

r41, Judy had A LOT invested in making her mother the villain in her life. To be sure, Ethel Gum was an ambitious and driven stage mother who acted out her own ambitions on her daughters, but much of her story was embellished by Judy after Ethel died.

On later review it has been determined that for a financial layman Ethel did a good job managing Judy's finances on the whole. She also adamantly argued with Mayer and MGM that they were overworking her daughter and damaging her health. In early 1943 when Judy was still twenty and considered a minor, Ethel was banned from the lot and that was her done, Judy's last real advocate.

On Youtube there's color home movie footage of Judy and Ethel gardening and repotting plants in what looks like 1947 (based on baby Liza's age in them). This was during the disastrous year of "The Pirate", but you'd never know it from looking at them getting along just fine. I believe things really went south for them in 1949, where Judy later claims Ethel suggested a frontal lobotomy as treatment for her daughter. In her defense, it was currently being done for people with issues.

Her old boyfriend Johnny Mercer apparently lit into her at the mother's wake for treating her mother so badly. If the mother was truly a bitch I can't see that happening.

R38, read the chapter about Mrs. Gumm in WAS, by Geoff Ryman. Wonderful story, beautifully written.

R45, Seriously? Wines have been available and popular for many centuries.

Blue Nun has always been known as an inexpensive white wine.

We got ripped off when Garland didn't get to play Rose in the movie of Gypsy.

R22. I am not victim blaming. Begelman I believe committed suicide due to his being brought to justice. Sid Luft (ironically) knew he was ripping her off- tried to intervene but Judy being Judy fucked up. Judy was broke and in debt most of her life because she put herself in the hands of people like Begelman. Mickie Deans was using her as well at the end of her life.

Judy could not take care of herself from the get go. And unfortunately, like most addicts, she attracted to worst. Surely life experience has taught you this R22. Gave you ever known a long term addict and alcoholic, like Judy? Ditto Whitney only she was luckier than Judy. Clive Davis was not a crook. But she married a total gutter dweller. Why? Because that’s where her addictions lived.

Sad, sad, sad.

R50 Commercially available and popularized in the USA. Americans weren't really wine drinkers until later in the 20th century. They drank cocktails and beer. Blue Nun was very popular for a while, Stiller & Meara did ads for it and it sold well.

Don't forget that Judy got the really BIG GUNS when it came to drugs - Seconal, Nembutal, Tuinal, really bad speed - stuff that's been yanked off the market since then. And to have started them in adolescence didn't give her a fighting chance. It's practically a miracle she was able to have the career she did.

R52 Begelman was a major agent and VP, with MCA. He left in the early 60s and formed CMA with Freddie Fields. They had big clients including, yes, Steisand, and Paul Newman, Gregory Peck, McQueen, Astaire, etc. They told Judy they were going to return her to movies (they did - Judgment at Nuremburg, I Could Go On Singing, Gay Puree) and get her into TV (The Judy Garland Show), and get her a recording contract - etc. She wasn't stupid to sign with them, she didn't know what was going to happen.

Quite a few performers in those days were addicted to drugs and alcohol. Marilyn Monroe. Sinatra drank a fifth of Scotch a day. Spencer Tracy, Errol Flynn, Robert Young, Dana Andrews and Clark Gable were alcoholics. So was Jack Lemmon. Begelman still ripped Judy off.

R52 I think she was only broke and in debt after the 1950s. She didn't always attract the worst. She was married to a successful composer-arranger (Rose) a successful director (Minnelli). She had romances with some people one would hardly call "the worst" - Tyrone Power, for one. She had friends like Bogart and Bacall, June Allyson and Dick Powell. Kay Thompson (who went south later, but was doing okay then), Syvia Sidney. I agree she was a mess due to her addiction (which might actually have been her self-medicating, due to other mental and emotional issues). Even in her mid to late 20s. She also didn't have a normal childhood at all, being on the road in vaudeville, then at MGM.

Sadly and ironically, she was a truly great singer because of the pain she endured and tried to overcome in her work. Had she been well-adjusted, happy, in. a good, long-lasting relationship we might be thinking of her like Kate Smith. Personal tragedy brought depth to her art, as it did with Billie Holiday, Chet Baker, et al.

Judy truly was amazing. She was smart and funny. Just incredibly fucked up.

Feel similar about Whitney. I’ve watched a couple docs on her. She comes across as a decent person who got lost in drugs

Absent MGM and hre later career, her family would have made her a mess. Horrible stage mother and gay dad.

[quote]It must be weird supporting your family when you're a teenager.

In the 1930s, hundreds of parents took their little ones to Hollywood hoping they could sell them as the next Shirley Temple...it was the Depression, people tried everything.

And some of those kids ended up being stars.

And most of them became very fucked-up. Temple was probably lucky and failing as an adult probably save her from more.

R47 = Ethel Gumm from the grave.

Remembering Judy Garland

More...

R32 - you think this is what a normal 42 year old woman - WITH tons of makeup and hair done - looks like?

Forty-two!

Yet Shirley Temple ended up a Republican. A fate worse than Judy's.

R66, R32 is 23 years old and has no concept of what anyone over 40 looks like except for his alcoholic parents.

R67 - a lot of washed up actors seem to find a second life with the Republican party or being a huge supporter.

I've always thought it was interesting that, with all of her problems, her children always speak so fondly and lovingly about her. They really adored her. Children of parents with substance issues are exposed to a LOT. Even though Garland had her issues, she did something right as a parent. None of her children seem bitter about what they must have gone through.

[quote]They really adored her.

Of course we did. Mama gave us a home and shared her benzies with me.

Judy’s body of work is amazing considering all the drama /lows of her life and her early death. She left behind so many memorable performances in her films and concerts . Even her TV series , which was her last hurrah, had great moments . She was very fortunate to have that legacy . Although she wasn’t easy to work with , her peers all seemed to like her and mostly say nice things about her in hindsight .

So I don’t buy into the victim /tragic figure yarns..

R37, one of the most salient facts about addiction is that the only person who can change it, is the addict. Garland and Whitney could not and therefore they lived with the wolves. Do you know any addicts or alcoholics R37? There were many other film stars at Metro, and Clive Davis managed many other singers. But Whitney married Bobby Brown and Judy put herself in the hands of a grifter who enabled her habit late in her short life- he even put minders on her to both feed and try to control the habit. That is why she went into business with him- she paid no attention to money or taxes. Bobby was an addict too- so Whitney married him. I have loved at least one addict and it nearly killed me to try and help him until I realized I could not- ever. Many circumstances get someone into trouble with substances. Only one thing gets them out (themself). Until that time their entire lives are one huge mess- that often hurt others and end in an early demise- all which happened to Judy and Whitney and countless others both famous and not famous.

Yeah, the most salient fact about addiction is that it changes the brain.

Back to Salem, Goody Judge.

Judy was one of the most talented singers ever. She also had a lot of pain and struggle throughout her life. Despite that, she had a good heart, which is hard to encounter in Hollywood. At a time when gay men were oppressed beyond belief, they identified with her struggles, and she theirs.

Bette is taking liberties with her upbringing. It was a broken family and her mom was kind of flighty, n'est ce pas?

R53, You’re absolutely wrong and you must know it.

R55, Humphrey Bogart was also an alcoholic, despite Lauren Bacall’s frequent protestations in interviews.

Throw in needy and greedy, R76.

Ruth Davis drained Bette’s bank account with her spending habits.

Bette totally supported her mother and her sister Bobbie for many years.

I feel like Judy Garland ripped me off.

Not sure if Judy was a great mom, or if it was more the case that Vincente "MARY!" Minnelli and Sid Luft were worse.

R77

[quote]Immediately after the repeal of Prohibition, wine consumption dropped as Americans had renewed access to spirits and beer. From the repeal of Prohibition to the late 1950s, high-alcohol dessert and fortified wines dominated the market. These were the darkest days of the history of wine production and consumption. Many fortified wines were produced and sold extremely cheaply, and catered to the "misery market". "Winos" drank these overly alcoholic concoctions because they were the cheapest way to get drunk. In the quest for short-term profits, unscrupulous producers stamped a black mark on the history of wine in America.

[quote]From 1934 to the early 1950s, immigrant families consumed the majority of table wines. Unfortunately, many of their offspring did not follow their parents traditional drink choices and began consuming beer and cocktails as they assimilated into American society. Table wine was a mysterious beverage to most Americans and was associated with high-society and recent arrivals from Southern and Central Europe.

[quote]America's taste for non-fortified wines finally began to develop in the early 1960s. The majority of these new wine drinkers were young, well-traveled, and relatively affluent. As the Baby Boom generation came of age, the ranks of wine drinkers increased. Even still, the majority of consumers bought simple, sweet wines.

Blue Nun (Liebfraumilch) is a simple, sweet wine.

Let me know which part of any of this you can't understand.

I periodically just feel really sad about Judy Garland. My partner has grown used to it and now has pat expressions he uses to condol me.

R3, popular culture historians have always pointed to the FACT that Judy Garland would have blossomed and thrived had she been a movie star in Stalinist Soviet Union or Maoist China.

EDUCATE YOURSELF!

When I first started drinking I ordered a Blue Nun because I had read that it was JG’s drink. It arrived. I took a big swig & immediately spit out that lousy, fermented, melted popsicle. Bad. Really bad.

R57, I disagree. Streisand is her peer as a singer and did not suffer. I can identify many more. Garland was great at every stage of her life until the last 6 or 7 years. One not need to suffer to make great art.

I adore Streisand beyond measure, but have you ever been truly moved by any of her recordings?

Blue Nun reminds me of that scene in The Bell Jar where Esther's bf brings a bottle to her room and shows Esther his dick. Turkey neck and giblets.

Blue Nun was popular in the 1970s with the college crowd because it was cheap.

[quote]it was cheap

...and sweet

I think it's the beauty of her sound as opposed to her interpretation that's moving, r87. Like Ronstadt.

I love cream of Wheat!

To me, Streisand is not a moving singer, though it's apples and oranges. I just happen to like apples (Judy) more than oranges. Streisand is a mediocre actress, besides. Not saying she's bad. But Judy was a much better actress. I mean you can debate how well she utilized that talent, but she had the talent.

I took a wine tasting course at college with a well-regarded professor. He said Blue Nun was a good, inexpensive wine to have with certain foods, like American Chinese. He said it in a "no kidding" kind of way - he wasn't a wine snob. Blue Nun was looked down on but that took a while. In the early 60s (when Judy was into it) it was still sort of trendy.

It is no surprise that Judy drank Blue Nun, she fit the demographic of people who did, as outlined in R82. As mentioned above Blue Nun had an add campaign in the late 60s with Stiller and Meara; another wine that advertised heavily at the time was Mateus Rose. These were inexpensive, sweet wines that were marketed to the lower and middle middle classes. Boone's Farm Strawberry Hill - even cheaper and sweeter - was pitched to the college and high school crowd.

There was nothing about any of them that wine-snobs would like, but there were many fewer wine snobs in America at the time. There was also nothing about them that more experienced wine drinkers would really enjoy, but there weren't many of those in mass-market America at that time either.

Bette Davis’s mother, Ruthie, always reminded Bette about the sacrifices she made on Bette’s behalf. She indeed worked tirelessly and sacrificed a great deal before Bette became a star.

Once Bette was rich and famous, her mother was a parasite. If Bette bought a mink coat, Ruthie wanted one, too. She bought cars, jewelry and spent Bette’s money lavishly. Bette fought with her constantly, for her feckless and spendthrift ways. Bette allowed it out of guilt. Before Ruthie died, she asked Bette to bury her in a solid silver casket. She got her wish, though Bette was enraged.

Bette Davis was extravagant, herself. Had she saved her money and invested it wisely, could’ve selected better projects, like Katharine Hepburn did. Hepburn was wealthy, Bette was wasn’t.

Bette had to support her daughter BD. I don't think BD or her grifting husband ever worked.

There are lots of stories about difficulties with Judy on film sets, which resulted in a lot of bad feelings and frustrations. Yet overall people that knew her spoke highly of her, despite her serious addictions and unpredictability.

"Overall, people that knew her spoke highly of her"

Well, not everyone . . .

Look. Judy was one of the most talented singers ever. She also had a lot of pain and struggle throughout her life. Despite that, she had a good heart, which is hard to encounter in Hollywood. At a time when gay men were oppressed beyond belief, they identified with her struggles, and she theirs.

Judy was rarely "difficult on set", her issue was getting to the set on time. Except for her final week on "Annie Get Your Gun" before being let go, she was prepared and got the job done, she was just too frequently late or completely absent.

On "Annie" she was completely ineffective one day, and not able to perform, and she wrote an apology to the director and staff and returned her pay for the day.

Kate aged with enough of her beauty intact which helped extend her film career longer than Bette, r95. There was no way Bette was going to get to do something like On Golden Pond.

Wasn't she notoriously troubled on the set of I Could Go On Singing?

Hepburn wasn’t half as interesting as Davis on the screen, though.

Director of I Could Go On Singing

No, she was notoriously MIA on the set of I Could Go On Singing. In an interview I watched on Youtube, director Ronald Neame was driven to distraction by this and yet reported when she did finally arrive, although occasionally impossible "she was never unserious, or unprepared".

It's not this interview but it's still interesting.

Van Johnson claims he nearly married Judy Garland (at 1:30).

R106, As if she needed another gay husband.

It's a pity Judy Garland fell apart before her time because she was a courageous entertainer. Fearless. And could surprise you. A Child Is Waiting, 2nd to last film, is a good performance. Bette Davis was fearless and if her lack of wealth forced her to take odd projects, she didn't phone in her performances. I say even Joan Crawford managed creative and surprising performances in middle age and beyond. Katharine Hepburn's most compelling work was in the 1940s, for crissakes! IMO. The 50s were uneven. I don't find surprising performances by Hepburn after the 40s but I haven't seen all the second half of career. She annoys me and I don't like spending 2 hours with her.

The Carnegie Hall recorded performance is really remarkable. You can appreciate it on so many levels. It's wildly entertaining but also so professional and precise, but one feels it as lived in and warm. Onstage, Judy was a well oiled war machine of entertainment.

Agree. That was her finest hour and cemented her legacy for all time, despite her personal problems.

R109, Her only Grammy.

Isn’t there a non profit in Hollywood that takes care of stars as they age? Judy worked very hard, served her time, and continues to contribute to the US economy. She’s made this country millions if not, billions of dollars off of her performances, image, and music. She deserved better. I hope she’s resting in peace.

She died at 47, R112

Right, [R113], but was there any type of organization specifically for actors/actresses that could have helped Judy with finances, housing, rehab? I thought they existed, but maybe not. She’s someone who never should have had to struggle financially. She’s a Hollywood legend. Hollywood should have had her back.

In the film Judy, she was portrayed as not having enough money for housing and couldn’t afford to pay her hotel bills. You’d think someone in Hollywood would have housed her. Frank Sinatra used to take care of stars in various capacities. Who helped Judy?

She was only 47. She had a long career ahead of her. Concerts, film, Love Boat. She'd have only been mid sixties in the late eighties... she could have done a night time soap and ridden that trend wave of hiring great stars for TV. Judy Garland is Constance Colby. Judy Garland is Jacqueline Perrault. Or Judy Garland is Miss fucking Ellie.

What she needed, poor lady, was to beat the pills and the booze to the extent it was a problem. Did the care exist then to make it happen? Or had so many years passed her brain was so changed there was never any hope?

47 was very young to die, even if you'd crammed eighty years of hard living into it.

^ Just to add, we tend to forget she was an accomplished dramatic actress. But every time I see a bit from one her film roles, vs. her musical film roles, I am always blown away by her ability to play drama.

Part of me is very glad we didn't have to endure Judy on Love Boat or Dynasty or Match Game. Surely she could have done roles better suited to her talents and escaped the onus of being a figure of ridicule like Ann Miller or Ethel Merman.

R117, When and where was Ethel Merman ridiculed?

I gather Judy had a great sense of humour about performing. I think she'd have done anything happily, from serious work to a lark.

r118, in her later years, nearly everywhere. They didn't use her as a sight gag in MAD MAD WORLD as a sign of respect.

R118 when and where was she not?

R120, That movie was made when she was 55, twenty years before she died.

The Ethel disco album was pure shit and laughed at for decades.

R123, It’s become a collector’s item.

R123, Judy had her offbeat moments.

Not to me r124

It’s true her story makes me so angry for her

Years ago, somebody here posted this of Garland singing an obscure, wrist-slasher, December holidays song called "After the Holidays".

I thought I'd plumbed every emotion one can have about December holidays until I heard and saw this. And, to me anyway, it only adds to the unbearable poignancy that Garland's voice is shot.

And, if you've ever felt the inevitability of a break-up around the holidays, this is tooo much.

*

[...]

She looks so cracked out in that clip, R129.

[quote]Before Ruthie died, she asked Bette to bury her in a solid silver casket. She got her wish, though Bette was enraged.

Bitch was dead, I'd have put her in a plastic box.

NEVER marry your dealer

[quote]Did the care exist then to make it happen?

Rehab as we know it today did not exist back then. Addicted people didn't really have the resources to get better.

[quote]They didn't use her as a sight gag in MAD MAD WORLD as a sign of respect.

Ethel is hilarious and in no way a "sight gag" in "It's a Mad Mad Mad Mad World". She should have been nominated for Best Supporting Actress!

R135 She was a sight gag in Airplane! (In a good way). In Mad, Mad World she had a large part so I don’t even get how that could be described as a “sight gag”.

My dad watched The Wizard Of Oz with me (on its yearly broadcast) and my mom used to play her Carnegie Hall album. They liked her and like many people almost never talked a lot about her drug use, drinking, or suicide attempts. I hear a lot more about that now than when she was alive. You can’t look at any Youtube video featuring Judy that don’t have comments sections full of posts about her drug addiction and how sad her life was. Over and over.

*videos

James Dean died at 24, when he’d just become a star - talk about being ripped off by life.

And he was molested, besides.

Someone asked why people in Hollywood didn’t try to help her- they did- over and over. Sinatra rescued her financially a number of times. I’m surprised that many on this thread are a bit naive of the cost of serious addiction. She was an addict and alcoholic. No one can rescue anyone from that. No one. Only the addict. I have lost several friends and one uncle to addiction. All were offered help repeatedly over the years of their addictions until finally killed by them. I also have friends who have recovered. And they did so by some fiat of luck that made them realize they had to stop. And yes, in Judy’s time AA and NA were fledgling 12-steps. But she was in at least two dry out clinics. It just never stuck for her.

It's not as simple as realizing you have to stop, though will power has a part to play as well. Sorry to trod upon your expertise and anecdotes, charlie.

At least she looked like she lived to 90

I’m just amazed sometimes by how Judy Garland is regarded as THE Hollywood drug addict. It’s like it’s her identity. Marilyn was also a drug addict, so was Monty Clift, so were people before and since.So was Liza. But it’s always about Judy. It’s as if people can talk of nothing else.

“I’m just amazed sometimes by how Judy Garland is regarded as THE Hollywood drug addict.”

It used to be me.

I think part of it, r144, is that Garland was a live performer for the most part. Her physical deterioration was often present in front of an audience. Monroe, Clift, etc. were only put in front of a camera when they were pretty much presentable.

Also, to the best of my knowledge, the root of their addictions didn't lie in the studio drugging them as part of production.

R147 So?

Because Judy was always Dorothy Gale and it was heartbreaking to see what became of her.

R148, so if she's sort of "THE Hollywood drug addict" it's because of the basis for her addiction. Other people made her into one. She got told to take the drugs as a teenager as a condition of employment. To the best of my knowledge, the other examples of famous addicts you cite didn't become addicts because others chose for them.

She used to shoplift at a nearby Walgreens.

I agree 142- it sounds easy but of course it is not. My point is that it’s the addict that has to hit a bottom of some sort that gets them to stop. I’ve seen an intervention work. But for every time someone has somehow stopped, I know of more who could not and it destroyed them. I might add that the desire to stop usually requires help- lots of it. But the desire has to come from the addict.

That’s not how it goes down R150. Judy was and is not the only Hollywood star- Shirley Temolr was not an addict. deans Durbin was not an addict. Addiction is a complicated affliction that usually develops out of circumstance including trauma, mental illness and plane bad luck. There is also a familial factor.

Deanna

Didn’t Judy enjoy the “poor Judy” legend?

Everything was conflicting with her . From her parents to LB Mayer and MGM, her husbands, friends and beyond. There were good and bad aspects of everything and her own quotes reflect that. Just like most life experiences for normal, everyday people.

[quote]She used to shoplift at a nearby Walgreens.

Suppositories.

It was the death of her.

Her story was truly heartbreaking to me. World famous, an enormously talented woman, and OMG, what a sad life. I had no idea things were so bad for her until I watched the Renee Zellweger biopic. And I had no idea she died so young. Looking at photographs of her a year or so before she died, I just assumed she was older, she looked so bad.

You certainly couldn't get an idea she was enormously talented by watching the Zellwegger movie!

The studios didn't drug Temple or Durbin.

Renee's character was focused on the end of a career not the high points.

R160, Shirley Temple’s mother was there every day.

Jesus Christ R106! Anyone who argues tAnd the fact that Judy proposed to him confirms it. Her Gaydar was unfailing.All her husbands were Gay.

R163 here. Lost half my sentence. I was commenting on Van Johnson who was an absolute Queen by the time of that interview.

Judy was looking for a man like her daddy.

[quote]All her husbands were Gay.

David Rose and Sid Luft were straight.

Sid Luft pissed away Judy's money on gambling and then Fields and Begelmen pissed her money away with embezzlement. She should've been worth a fortune.

I just finished watching the Renee Zellweger movie. She died 6 months after those shows she did in London, in the movie. I think she was mentally ill as well as addicted to prescription drugs and an alcoholic. What a constellation ofshit. She was homeless. I found that really unnerving. She had no where to go.

Wasn’t Luft just a grifter? I think he got to look good in the big Judy bio in the 70s or 80s because they needed his cooperation. Then Lorna usually paints him in a good light.

I read Todd Fisher’s autobiography with a lot about his sister and mom. He said Debbie was homeless and living in her car, at one point.

(Reynolds)

Sid Luft had a gambling addiction and on top of that he made some bad investments. He also liked to live lavishly so he pissed Judy's money away that way too. He was terrible with money.

Was she molested?

I don't understand how Debbie could have been poor. Didn't Carrie have Star Wars money coming in like, all the time?

(I know she was ripped off by husbands and lost money on her museum)

Carrie drank her money, r174.

[quote]Before Ruthie died, she asked Bette to bury her in a solid silver casket. She got her wish, though Bette was enraged.

However, before the Forest Lawn attendants put Ruthie in the hearse, Bette asked for one final moment alone. She locked the chapel door, took the casket key, unlocked the lid, and lifted it. She then climbed on top, straddled, and peed on her mother's corpse, laughing her raspy laugh as she did so.

Judy Garland just ripped a huge fart

R172 Well, I just meant - he was some guy in Hollywood (reminding me of Steve Crane, who was a grifter who eventually made good) - a test pilot - who married first Lynn Bari, then Judy. He was trying to be an entrepreneur, he became a producer - he produced a Bowery Boys movie, somehow - then A Star Is Born - and never produced another film. Did he ever have a job, after that? As you say, he pissed away Judy’s money. hat doesn’t sound like it was his own money. Did he make his own money?

*That

R179, When Steve Crane married Lana Turner, his divorce had not yet been finalized from his previous wife.

R181 He had told her he was some kind of big deal when in fact his family owned a crummy pool hall back home. But he ended up a successful restaurant owner - something he probably never could have been without getting his foot in the door with one of the many trusting saps who were stars in those days.

I heard she was mega constipated.

How edifying.

Just to repeat, Judy Garland was first given the pills by her mother. She was forced into addiction as a child.

Judy Garlic

Bing on working with Judy:

After 4 years, I finally watched Judy, from the nose up, I think Renée did a good job, but she kept doing that weird thing with her mouth.

R185 I just saw a documentary where that was disputed. It was in a biography and was hearsay. There’s no proof it happened.

[quote]She was homeless. I found that really unnerving.

Not in 1969 she wasn't homeless. Judy and her husband Mickey Deans lived on 4 Cadogan Lane SW1 in London where she died.

[quote]Wasn’t Luft just a grifter?

Someone who knew Sid well described him as "...the boy who promised his parents he'd never work a day in his life, and kept that promise!"

Was it apparent in any of JG’s performances on screen, that she was on drugs? She seemed healthy and en pointe in every performance I’ve ever seen of Judy Garland. The way people describe her, JG was under the influence 24/7.

John Garland raped me!

In Gerald Frank's book, he said that especially at MGM, those pills were seen as miracle drugs and they regularly gave them out as vitamins. No true sinister intent.

I feel that way about Tylenol Arthritis - 650mg 8 hr relief

Any good biographies (book or video) to recommend? The bipolar+borderline thing I didn't know about, just the drug use

I've been watching her TV show lately. She was great but it wasn't always a great show. I fast forwarded through a few of the guests' numbers. I enjoyed the show with June Allyson and the one with Streisand. The one with Liza was annoying because Liza was annoying. She got better later. She wanted to be a dancer to begin with but she wasn't a great dancer. She reminded me of her Punchy Players parody. Also enjoyed a conversation with Steve Allen.

And watching this show, she doesn’t look old for 41-42. She didn’t have any work done, unlike today’s Hollywood 40-somethings. And didn’t try to dress like she was 25.

Druggie mental problems PTSD

R198, Judy went on a diet of nothing but tea for thirty days to be thin for the CBS variety series.

Gifted singer.

R200 Not even broth?

Judy's "Kismet" medley duet with Vic Damone remains thrilling.

For a performer who could be so unreliable she seemed to really know her craft and was said to have enjoyed her own singing.

There’s something on YouTube where Radie Harris (I think) taped Judy from the balcony directing her own crew in a rehearsal on the road. It was supposed to show how smart and savvy Judy was, and it did. Just audio but it’s interesting.

Understatement R223. She was one of greatest vocal talents and entertainment geniuses of our age- when healthy and in good voice she was sublime.

MARY!

r204 Your mention of Radie Harris brought to mind an incredibly bitchy, funny and very imaginative bon mot, brought about by the actress, Coral Browne. Browne saw Harris in a London restaurant and snidely remarked, "Oh look, there's Radie Harris with all of London at her foot," (Harris had a wooden leg due to a childhood accident)

Maybe bitchy and imaginative but I’m turned off by comments like that about handicaps. Not very funny.

r208 Harris made good use of it though, and she got her revenge. She took Brown to court and won her case( of which I know no details) Browne, for good or ill, played a gossip columnist, supposedly based on Harris, in the film "The Legend of Lylah Clare." Perhaps by that time Harris and Browne had buried the hatchet.

I'm sorry I offended you, I should have been more circumspect. I do apologize.

100!!!

Radie was fantastic. In the days long before the internet, I would wait for her columns in the Hollywood Reporter.

I live next to Judy Garlic

Judy Garlic...hilarious