THEATRE GOSSIP #538: The “Bloody Bloody Norma Desmond” Edition

Link to previous thread:

Great title, OP! Thanks for starting a new thread ☺️

Are we going to discuss the new Sunset Boulevard?

Or the old "Follies"?

How can a production of Sunset Boulevard not have a staircase or a swimming pool?

R5, due to a an epic delusion that the show can stand on its score.

So it sort of sounds like they combined the Eleanor Parker character and the Thelma Ritter character from A Hole in the Head to create a new character for Eydie?

One of the great aspects of A Hole in the Head are all those fabulous actors in supporting roles. Besides Thelma, there's Edward G. Robinson who plays Sinatra's older brother and Thelma's husband, Carolyn Jones as Sinatra's beatnik/surfer girl friend (with blue nail polish - I've never forgotten - Mary!), Keenan Wynn as a pushy gangster type and Joi Lansing as his girl friend, and, of course Eleanor Parker as Sinatra's ultimate love interest and Eddie Hodges, brilliant as the kid.

And then there's the great theme song "High Hopes" which we always sang in grade school! I need to re-watch that movie now. I'm surprised it's not better remembered.

High Hopes was inescapable in my youth. Then it appeared as a JFK campaign song. It was a great idea to use the kids' chorus.

Acc to ATC, Max Von Essen is ill. Hope they can reschedule all of us disappointed fans.

A hat tip tip R596 and R597 from the previous thread. Two reasons why I spend time here... very funny posts.

Thanks you two!

So they're the ones to blame

Did Max Von Essen eat the wrong ass, or is it Covid?

Awww!

Heterosexual musical theatre LOVE.

Sunset Boulevard? All these years I thought the song was about Sunset's bull is hard.

Any good theatre worth seeing in London in November/December? Never seen Private Lives, so thinking of doing the production with Nigel Havers and Patricia Hodge. Looking for other suggestions -- plays or musicals -- but preferably not things one can easily see in the U.S. (like Hamilton, Wicked, Back to the Future etc.)

r7=Shirley Feeney

Love Nigel Havers

My Neighbor Totoro, R15.

Although it will undoubtedly be staged internationally at some point, no plans have been announced yet.

It is one of the most theatrically perfect things I’ve ever seen in my life.

r18 - do you think someone who has zero interest in Japanese animation would enjoy it? You're certainly not the first person to recommend it.

Dinah Shore had a summer variety show in the late 70s which featured up and coming talent like Leland Palmer, Diana Canova. and Gary Mule Deer. Cindy Williams is also in this.

A 71 year old Elliot and a 76 year old Amanda, r15?

Re. Sunset all I have to say is, bring back the damned scenery!

[quote]And then there's the great theme song "High Hopes" which we always sang in grade school! I need to re-watch that movie now. I'm surprised it's not better remembered.

[quote]High Hopes was inescapable in my youth. Then it appeared as a JFK campaign song. It was a great idea to use the kids' chorus.

Incidentally, "High Hopes" won the 1959 Oscar for Best Song. The other nominees were "The Best of Everything" from THE BEST OF EVERYTHING, "The Five Pennies" from THE FIVE PENNIES, "The Hanging Tree" from THE HANGING TREE, and "Strange Are the Ways of Love" from THE YOUNG LAND.

R21. I had the same reaction but you know what? They're both marvelous actors and it must be a master class watching them play Coward.

Beat this…

In the new London Sunset Boulevard revival, Joe still lyrically refers to the swimming pool, but it’s not there.

Post from previous thread discussing Max's devotion to Norma:

[quote]But she had other husbands after Max. It was more than love on his part. I took it as he felt responsible for her.

He did.

(JOE returns from secretly meeting with Betty.)

MAX: Please be careful when you cross the patio. Madame may be watching.

JOE: Suppose I tiptoe up the back stairs and undress in the dark, will that do it?

MAX: It's just that I am greatly worried about Madame.

JOE: Well, you're not helping her any, feeding her lies and more lies. What happens when she finds out they're not going to make her picture?

MAX: She never will. That is my job. I made her a star and I will never let her be destroyed.

JOE: You made her a star?

MAX: I directed all of her early pictures. In those days, there were three directors who showed promise: D.W. Griffith, Cecil B. DeMille, and...

JOE: Max von Mayerling.

MAX: That's right.

r15 will the Burton Gielgud play still be on?

[quote]Beat this…

Challenge accepted, R24. The very first show I saw on Broadway, in 1975, was "Private Lives," starring Maggie Smith. She was sublime.

R29, I saw that same production in Boston.

R29 I saw that production in LA. Maggie Smith was doing Lucy, something noted by almost all the critics. Obviously she ironed things out.

Maggie was doing...Maggie. She did Coward like nobody's business.

I remember she was doing triple takes and really, really trying physical comedy with weird body contortions. That's Lucy.

Oh, and not long after I saw Maggie, I saw Patricia Conolly do Amanda at the Guthrie and she was wonderful. I believe she was also doing Blanche in repertory that season.

Tonight, Max's role was played by composer Walter Marks, and though it wasn't the "historic event" James Morgan claimed it would be, it was a lot of fun, and the composer handled the score pretty well. But for me, it was all about the kid. Benjamin Pajak is the real thing. Not a forced emotion to be seen. He's going to have an amazing career.

^Max Von Essen, not Max from "Sunset".

[quote]Benjamin Pajak is the real thing. Not a forced emotion to be seen. He's going to have an amazing career.

You heard it here first, folks.

I recall uber religious Eydie Gorme having an issue with the revealing costumes worn by the Golden Rainbow chorus girls and insisting they be more covered up.

R37-AlanScott, is that you? Or it it you, mslop?

Eydie had never played Vegas?

Steve Lawrence had a fling with Sally Ann Howes during the run of What Makes Sammy Run?

Did Eydie, who was no actress, insist on being cast in Golden Rainbow to keep an eye on Steve?

[quote]Tonight, Max's role was played by composer Walter Marks, and though it wasn't the "historic event" James Morgan claimed it would be, it was a lot of fun, and the composer handled the score pretty well.

I'm very surprised at that, as I received an email saying that both performances today were canceled.

Saw THE WIZ in Baltimore tonight with a friend who was invited to their "soft" opening --- they're still working on it. It's going to be a hit. It's a great production and Ruffin's book really cleans up all the mess of the original. It's funny, and lots of heart. Much better than her work on "Some Like It Hot." The cast is something --- spectacular vocals, and this must be such a hard show for the sound mixer. Sets are by the "Black Panther" Oscar winner and they are fascinating... bold and fluid. The projections are state of the art, costumes beautiful with a few you could tell they were still working on. The girl playing Dorothy is MAJOR. Like Cynthia Erivo major. Lion, Scarecrow and Tinman all great, and the Tinman is another real find. Audience was wild for it, and it was a mixed race crowd. Probably 50/50 black/white and all having fun. For a "revisal" they got it right.

[quote] Sunset Boulevard? All these years I thought the song was about Sunset's bull is hard.

This is what happens when AI tries to write a joke.

You CAN do Romeo and Juliet with 40 year olds and Private Lives with 60 year olds, but they were written as teenagers and 30 year olds respectively, and it becomes a different play if they're not. Also, Act 2 of PL is very athletic, and the play's commentary on love doesn't work if the stately couple of the first Act don't turn into physically warring demons in the second.

[Quote] The girl playing Dorothy is MAJOR. Like Cynthia Erivo major.

R45 who are you talking about?

Walter Marks played the lead in GOLDEN RAINBOW?? He's 89!

Does no one remember the exquisite Private Lives in 1970 with Tammy Grimes and Brian Bedford? She won the Tony, too.

[quote] I received an email that both of today's performances of GOLDEN RAINBOW were canceled due to illness, with no further details. If it was on such short notice that the cancellation didn't happen until 40 minutes before curtain time of the matinee, I certainly hope it's nothing very serious.

[quote] Covid?

Menstrual Cramps.

[quote]The girl playing Dorothy is MAJOR. Like Cynthia Erivo major.

Yet she didn't make enough of an impression on you to remember her name.

Those UK Cabaret stars never seem to do more than a couple of months.

McAnuff did a great take on The Wiz at LaJolla maybe a decade ago. They keep trying to revive it including the TV special but I think it's just a thing of the past.

Does anyone remember that Joan Collins did PRIVATE LIVES on Broadway in 1992? No Tony for Joan.

R52. Shocking

Liz and Dick in Private Lives. Forgotten already.

"The Wiz" sets Broadway date.

The Grimes/Bedford Private Lives was the best version I've ever seen. Perfection. Nothing has rivaled it. And I didn't like the Rickman/Duncan one. I found them both unpleasant and she was rather robotic. I've loved her in everything since, though.

I was a kid. Saturday matinee of the brand new "The Wiz" fifth row center orchestra. Loved it. While exiting thru the aisle I said to my brother, Diana Ross will play Dorothy in the movie. A matinee matron stopped in her tracks in front of me, turned and said, Oh Dear, Diana Ross is too old to play Dorothy. I also predicted Madonna would play Evita ten years before she did.

[quote]McAnuff did a great take on The Wiz at LaJolla maybe a decade ago. They keep trying to revive it including the TV special but I think it's just a thing of the past.

Especially since there's already THE WIZARD OF OZ (based on the popular MGM film) that gets put on annually by high schools and community theaters.

There's even an abridged OZ Jr. for middle schoolers.

R56 . . .

R61 why are they so swarthy?

The Joan Collins Private Lives was complete camp, but enjoyable. I also thought the Rickman/Duncan one was overrated, although the set was a beauty. And I saw the Kim Cattrall production, but cannot remember a thing about it.

That photo at R61 is horrendous.

Liz looks like Maureen Stapleton's trampy older sister.

Burton looks like he's sweating gin (which, to be fair, he probably was).

John Cullum played the younger man in the Liz/Dick Private Lives??? He was older than Liz!

The Wiz at LaJolla introduced the Witch (called WWW) early on which helped a lot but a big problem is that the songs aren't very good. That doesn't seem to be a problem today but with few exceptions, most of the songs you forget the second after they're performed. I think it's hard to transcribe the difference of the black experience from the 1970s to 2020s.

r59=Miss Cleo

[quote]Liz looks like Maureen Stapleton's trampy older sister.

😂

They do look like the film version of ALL IN THE FAMILY.

[quote]No Tony for Joan.

I beg your pardon!

You forgot Private Lives.

I've had sufficient.

Shame Stephanie Mills never did another Broadway show. Imagine her as Effie in Dreamgirls.

Wasn't Mills in the Wiz for a very long time. She seemed to stay the same size.

[quote] Does anyone remember that Joan Collins did PRIVATE LIVES on Broadway in 1992? No Tony for Joan.

I worked on it. It was nowhere near as horrible as reputation had it. Joan was fine, and the two men (Simon Jones and Edward Duke) were very good. I have two pieces of gossip (one fun, one no big deal).

Joan liked the theater frozen cold because she would sweat off her makeup, so the front of the house had to keep the fire exit doors of the Broadhurst open until the house opened, and then again during intermission. It was the middle of winter and the patrons (most of whom were old bags) complained like crazy.

Joan was boozing it up during the run and was putting on weight. She insisted her wigs be teased out larger and larger to give her face the illusion of looking smaller. By the time of close she looked like one of The Hair Bear Bunch.

I will say that this production really kept things moving. it was staged to feel like a screwball comedy and it worked. Decades later I went to see the deadly dull production done with Paul Gross and Kim Cattrall and it moved at a glacial pace. There was one point where I swore that they had added an act because I didn't remember the show being that long.

I worked on that production, too, r73! Can vouch for all you've said. I found Jones an absolute delight to work with.

[quote]I have two pieces of gossip (one fun, one no big deal).

Which is which?

R73 great memories. Joan will always deserve credit in the world of Noel Coward fans for getting that video version of Tonight at 8:30 done as one of her big projects only a few years after her peak Dynasty fame. Whatever it was that made her choose that material only she knows, and yes, she's in all of the plays, but without her there'd be no professional video version of that show.

R48-Yes, at 89, he played the lead. The company wheeled him on and off stage in a chair on rollers, but he stood with his cane at the curtain. I can only wish my voice is still that strong at 89.

Did anyone on here work on Legends, with Joan Collins and Linda Evans?

Here in Boston, its engagement was shortened due to poor ticket sales.

I worked on the original, r78. That was quite enough.

You deserve a medal, r79.

R79, I heard from someone who worked at the Ahmanson in LA during the run that it was James Kirkwood who was the nightmare. Too much cocaine and not enough talent.

[quote]Too much cocaine and not enough talent.

I beg your pardon, it was exactly the opposite.

[quote]The Wiz at LaJolla introduced the Witch (called WWW) early on which helped a lot but a big problem is that the songs aren't very good.

Couldn't disagree more. There isn't a weak song in the show. I hope your not going by the really disappointing job Quincy Jones did with the movie soundtrack.

The bare staging of Sunset is just unnecessary. It looks dreadful. The original production was insanely expensive but the Glenn Close revival (which I saw in London) was just fine with everything scaled back. Did we need another one so soon? And Nicole Scherzinger is a great singer, but she looks much younger than the role. It's a bit of a strange choice. 50 isn't old but I think you need an element of "hag" to pull it off on stage.

Well, Glenn can certainly provide that.

R83, I'm going by my memory of the original Broadway cast. The songs by the Tinman, Scarecrow and Lion are not just forgettable, they're unmemorable. Ease on Down is fun as is No Bad News but it's saying something when the best song in the show was written by Luther Vandross. Home has become something of a theatrical evergreen but the score has a weird time stamp on it. It's not exactly Motown, not disco, not funk.

[quote[It's a great production and Ruffin's book really cleans up all the mess of the original. It's funny, and lots of heart.

Really? I just noticed that one performer, Melody A. Betts, is doubling as Aunt Em and Evilene, which makes no sense. Of course it makes sense in the 1939 movie that Miss Gulch becomes the Wicked Witch of the West, because they're both malevolent characters, but Aunt Em in THE WIZ especially is written as very kind and nurturing. So I don't get it.

Amber Ruffin? Of SLIH fame?

Sure, Jan.

I was switching channels and....whaddya know?!

I heard that Maggie Smith was asked whether she intended to see the Joan Collins production of "Private Lives." Her response, supposedly, was, "I don't think I have the strength."

I didn't know Joan Collins was ever on Broadway.

Just checked on IBDb and her PRIVATE LIVES only ran for one month?

[quote]I didn't know Joan Collins was ever on Broadway.

She intended to return to Broadway in the production of "Legends!" she did with Linda Evans, but, like the original (which starred Carol Channing and Mary Martin), it closed out of town. I saw it in D.C. It was terrible, but it's a terrible play. I saw the original in Boston, and even Channing and Martin couldn't save it.

Sondheim LOVED the original Wiz and was especially impressed with Ted Ross' Lion. He saw it several times.

On a somewhat similar vein, Sondheim said that Fosse saw the last 15 minutes of Follies, said "Oh Boy" and made a career out of it.

“Everybody Rejoice” and “Believe in Yourself” are also excellent songs in “The Wiz”.

In the movie, That's My Mama Teresa Merritt played Em but on Broadway played Evillene. On tour, Dee Dee Bridgewater played Em and Glinda which makes sense. I'd never heard of Melody Betts but thankfully she's not singing Believe in Yourself in the show. OMG.

R84, Norma is referred to as 40 in this current London revival.

[quote] Just checked on IBDb and her PRIVATE LIVES only ran for one month?

Yes, it was a limited run, but it still closed early.

The 1991-92 season at the Broadhurst was a disaster. The bomb shows, with Private Lives being the longest run of the three. The other two were Andre Heller's Wonderhouse, and Shimada, with Ellen Burstyn and Ben Gazzara, which closed after 5 performances.

I saw Dee Dee in concert this summer at a jazz festival. She was so fucking good. Even at age 75.

Fran Rich on Shimada:

“Yet as drama "Shimada" moves at the pace of bulk mail, and its content is somewhat less scintillating than the typical missive from, say, Publishers Clearing House.”

[quote]I saw Dee Dee in concert this summer at a jazz festival. She was so fucking good. Even at age 75.

Matinee Amanda!

“Perhaps the most novel aspect of the production is its distinction, widely publicized, as the first Broadway show to offer a simultaneous Japanese translation. The headsets can be rented for $5, a bargain when you consider that by turning up the volume of the Japanese translation all the way, you can almost succeed in drowning out "Shimada" in English.”

You gotta love Frank Rich (and I do).

“The Wiz” produced more great songs than “The Wizard of Oz” did.

Was lucky to see her do this three times

[quote]On tour, Dee Dee Bridgewater played Em and Glinda which makes sense.

Yes, that makes perfect sense -- but Aunt Em and Evilene, the Wicked Witch, being played by the same performer is just bizarre.

There were two reasons to combine Em and Glinda in that tour. First, the obvious one being that you're eliminating one actor that does one scene, one song and then is gone from the show. Second, there were people who believed that Bridgewater did not deserve the Tony so they beefed her part up on the road. Truthfully, if I was the one voting, I would have given the award to Mabel King for Evillene and she wasn't even nominated.

The LaJolla Wiz was a disaster, which is why it never moved. I remember McAnuff used those inflatable wind socks with eyes (the shit you see at gas stations and 'going out of business') as a part of the set design.

R96 So when they make the movie with Glenn they'll refer to Norma as 70? "There's nothing tragic about being 70, not unless you try to be 17."

Caption this.

R109, “Smell my finger”

I like Tammy's costume...

R108 I wonder if ALW will cast Scherzinger in the film version. He seems to have a bit of a hard-on for her. It would be in keeping with his tendency to fuck over (according to Patti Lupone) his leading ladies and pit them against each other, etc. Glenn is getting too old to do the film, if it ever gets made (which I doubt). She could probably pull it off, but at this point it sounded like things were starting to happen with it 5 years ago, but it hasn't moved any further ahead that I am aware of. This could well end up being Glenn's equivalent of Faye Dunaway's sad hopes with Master Class getting made into a film, with her starring.

In 1975, I met a nice school teacher from the Bronx at the St. Marks Baths. After the sex, we talked for quite a while and found we had a lot in common. I bravely asked him if he would consider having a "date" with me, and he said yes. So I got house seats to THE WIZ, and we did dinner and the show. I remember exactly where we sat, and I remember exactly how much I loved the show. I also remember his reaction to the performance: meh! I never saw him again.

It's strange how the memory of a beautiful show keeps the memory of a dud date alive.

My memory of The Wiz was that it looked exceedingly cheap, like a community theater production.

I saw The Wiz on Broadway fairly late in the run. Stephanie was still in it, though. I thought it was fairly fun if kinda tired (ditto, R114). Then Stephanie came out alone, stood in a spotlight and absolutely sang the living crap out of Home. Totally worth the ticket just for that.

R112, I can't believe you or anyone still thinks there's ANY chance in hell that a film of SUNSET BOULEVARD starring Glenn Close will be made. I myself doubt any film version of that garbagey show will ever happen, but if it does, it certainly won't be with her starring.

[quote]This could well end up being Glenn's equivalent of Faye Dunaway's sad hopes with Master Class getting made into a film, with her starring.

See also: Babs' "Gypsy."

A friend and I went to see Sherlock Holmes at the Broadhurst. We came out on the most unbelievable Broadway high and we went next door to the Majestic and got tickets to The Wiz. After Sherlock Holmes it was the biggest let down imaginable.

[quote] Second, there were people who believed that Bridgewater did not deserve the Tony so they beefed her part up on the road.

They'd be correct.

The nominees that year for acting were very odd. All the categories had at least 5 nominees (excepting Best Lead Actress in a Musical), with most bursting to six. And some of them were negligible, at best. The fact that neither Mills nor King were nominated, and chaff like Kelly Garrett and Donna Theodore getting in instead makes no sense. I'm certain the stupid rule about billing kept Mills from competing in the lead category, where there was plenty of room, but as fabulous as Bridgewater was on her one song, King was the real deal, giving a terrific comedic performance and tearing the roof off her song.

R119, slight correction. Glinda had two songs, A Rested Body and Believe in Yourself. King's appearance being dragged in by the slaves in Oz caused the audiences to scream.

I saw the national tour of "The Wiz" in Boston in 1977 starring Wren Woods as Dorothy (it was fantastic), and I sort of recall the same actress did play both Aunt Em and Evilene back then too. I think I recall it because it was a strange kind of doubling off such different characters, but it may be a common practice with the show.

I love the show and the score is full of good songs. I recently have been listening to the wonderful Scarecrow song, "I Was Born on the Day Before Yesterday" which is so sweet and that beautiful keyboard intro.

Oh man, Ren Woods had such a fantastic voice. She should have been much more successful.

r121, that was the national tour with Dee Dee. Ella Mitchell played Evillene and they had many of the Broadway cast but Mabel already went on to What's Happening and Addaperle was Vivian Bonnell whose name may not be familiar but you would know her face from her numerous guest appearances.

Mabel on Opening Night.

I'm trying to find the story about Clarice Taylor and Thelma Carpenter working on the same production, one being the other's understudy or standby, and them not getting along. I believe it was Taylor who had the role and Carpenter was her standby. Taylor got to the theater late, and Carpenter was already in her costume and ready to go and they had a fight about who would go on. Nothing comes up on IBDB but it may not have been Broadway. Anyone know?

R125, I'd rather find out about how Butterfly McQueen was. Her part was cut out of town but she still understudied Taylor and she certainly seems like a good fit for the role.

I can't imagine how bad she had to be for Clarice Taylor to replace her. Clarice sounds like she's on her last legs on the cast recording.

There was a kid's show on Sunday mornings in the Tri-state area for many years called Wonderama. I remember as a very young boy watching it religiously. (I even got to be in the audience one episode and got picked to play a game.) They had on the cast of The Wiz during its first year on Broadway and they came to perform a song. (I'm sure it was Ease on Down the Road.) I was absolutely fascinated by them and I begged and pleaded with my parents to take me into NYC to see the show. They refused, looking absolutely appalled that their child would be interested in musicals, and a black one at that. I got my much older cousins to take me to see it when we came up to visit a couple years later during the holidays.

R128 Wonderama was syndicated to other Metromedia local stations…in LA it was KTTV-11. I watched it faithfully…those NYC kids had attitude….and I remember Stephanie Millls quite clearly. Thx for that.

Stephanie Mills slayed as Aunt Em in the tv version.

Oh, was it, R129? I didn't know. That's interesting. I grew up in Florida, but we were in the NY/NJ area a lot because my mother's family all lived there. It most definitely didn't air in South Florida, so I just assumed it was a local show. I guess we didn't have a Metromedia station down there. Our big kids show was called The Skipper Chuck Show.

The Wiz was the only Broadway show I saw until I moved to NYC as a teenager. Funnily enough, after my parents moved back up to NJ, I would take my mom to see shows a few times a year. She loved it. The first thing I took her to see was Starlight Express (her choice, I was appalled, but actually had a good time).

I remember being so fascinated by the local NY/NJ channels as a kid. I always thought they showed much better stuff in the afternoons than the ones in Florida. I can remember my first exposure to horror tv movies was through the 4:30 movie.

[Quote] I got my much older cousins to take me

Hot.

Relax, R132, they were female.

Was Sonny Fox still the host of Wonderama in the 1970s? He was quite the hot daddy when he hosted the show back in the 1950s.

No. It was Bob McAllister

Thank you R111, for the photo of Ms. Grimes, as Elvira in High Spirits. I love the score to that show. How I wish Encores! had put it up years ago (when I had a subscription to the series).

I've never seen the musical, my parents owned the album. I was already a fan of the music when the original "Equalizer" TV show started. Mom casually informed me that the man starring as Robert McCall (Edward Woodward) was Charles on that album.

I think it took a few minutes for me to "get" that some actors had a big range of talent...

[quote] Joan will always deserve credit in the world of Noel Coward fans

That's as may be, but in Cole Lesley's biography he informs us that when young Joan was in a play actually directed by Coward she annoyed him so often about billing her at the end of the cast, preceded by "AND" in a box, that eventually he rounded on her and said, "If I hear another word out of you, I will bill you at the end after "BUT" in a box!"

R137. That story has been attributed to many different actors and playwrights—probably stretching back to Aeschylus and Thespis

[quote]That story has been attributed to many different actors and playwrights—probably stretching back to Aeschylus and Thespis

I have never heard that story before, with any attribution, but I have to say it's quite hilarious, and it certainly does sound like something that the wonderfully witty Coward would have said

R138, Joan worked for them, as well.

I think I read it attributed to Shaw as well.

Cole Lesley was a daily presence in Coward's life and the rest of the book appears credible, so I'm going with his account. It sounds exactly like Coward to me.

Did Shaw direct his own plays? Because if not, how would he have control over how actors were billed?

Bea Lilly's performance in High Spirits drove Coward crazy yet the audience loved her in it. Reminds me of seeing Two by Two with Danny Kaye. Rodgers was furious but the audience loved that he had turned it into The Danny Kaye Show. Very unprofessional but a lot of fun. Even Jerry Lewis played Damn Yankees straight.

Jerry Lewis turned the show into his club act towards the end of his tenure as Applegate.

[quote]Bea Lilly's performance

Oh, dear.

Well Lewis was probably starting to get bored.

As I recall, Coward wasn't upset with her performance (after all, if you hired Lillie for a show, this is what you got; he'd known her for years). It was that she was entering into the first stages of dementia and would frequently forget lines. I saw her in HS and hadn't realized her genius until then. She was divine.

I can't quite imagine in GB Shaw's day any actors were ever billed with "and" and their name in a box.

Such as . . .

I was very underwhelmed by Lillie in HS. She was very - twee. Maybe I was just too young to appreciate her. I was overwhelmed, however, with the other three leads, Tammy Grimes, Edward Woodward and Louise Troy. They were all fantastic.

If you’re not moved by Be a Lion from The Wiz you should see a doctor cuz you might be dead already. I mean, c’mon.

I think the score of The Wiz is somewhere between the Chitlin Circuit and a negro spiritual revival which is perfectly valid.

Was there ever any chance of Stephanie doing the movie version before Diana butted in? They did cast Ted Ross and Mabel King.

Well, Lillie was Tony nominated for HS; Grimes was not. BIG year with Streisand, Channing, Swenson in competition. Not even room for Carol Burnett.

Ross was fantastic in the film version of The Wiz, no matter what the reviews of the film itself. I certainly would have nominated him for an Oscar over Jack Warden doing nothing in Heaven Can Wait.

[quote]Ross was fantastic in the film version of The Wiz

Why, thank you!

[quote]Not even room for Carol Burnett

She knows why.

Diane, while I don't share everyone else's hatred of your performance in The Wiz, fantastic is a (poppy) field afar.

Jack Warden gave the performance of his career in "Heaven Can Wait". The ending with Warden crushed me.

Pearl Bailey turned all of the revival of Hello Dolly into her nightclub act.

Not a great week last week for a lot of shows—who's closing first?

Kimberly Akimbo—$516,983

Purlie Victorious—$259,603 (!!!)

Hadestown—$552,990

Here Lies Love—$577,876

Some Like It Hot—$681,485

But Merrily We Roll Along coming in strong with $1,304,508 from 6 performances.

[quote]Merrily We Roll Along coming in strong with $1,304,508 from 6 performances.

The combination of the lure of Sondheim plus one tremendous film and theater star, one big theater and film star, and one big theater star in the leads is obviously VERY potent, at least in the short term. It will be interesting to see if the huge box office receipts for MERRILY keep up, or if there is a big drop-off after a few months like there was with INTO THE WOODS.

As for the numbers for the other shows $516,983 for KIMBERLY is a lot less dire than $577,876 for HERE LIES LOVE, given what the comparative running costs of those two shows must be.

Is Purlie heavily papered because my friend saw it and said theatre was pretty full. She also loved it (she paid).

Merrily We Roll Along is finally a hit after forty-two years, and I'll wager a review-proof one.

[quote]Merrily We Roll Along is finally a hit after forty-two years, and I'll wager a review-proof one.

Aren't you counting your chickens before...., r164?

Anything can be a hit with the right stars.

TPTB keep saying that stars do not matter anymore, but many people will still go watch a notable person in something, movie or stage show.

Especially if they're cute.

Into the Woods grosses would t have dropped had Sara stayed in.

Stephanie sang the role really well and is a great actress, but she’s not a star.

[quote]Aren't you counting your chickens before....

I looked online and they've sold a lot of tickets already.

[quote]I looked online and they've sold a lot of tickets already.

Opening big doesn't necessarily mean a sustained hit.

I wouldn't call Stephanie J Block a great actress. She's competent but I wouldn't want to see her play Blanche DuBois.

Do you not understand the concept of "advance sales", r169?

Out of ALL the tickets they have, they've already sold A LOT of them, which means they can be a hit regardless of the reviews because there aren't tons of tickets they have left to sell.

Is it a limited run, r171?

Yes, it was a limited run originally set to end January 21st, but they've since extended to March 24th because THEY'VE ALREADY SOLD SO MANY TICKETS!

Honey, relax.

Too bad this is the revised version. If it were the original I would have been interested. The revised version at Encores was crap. The original Hal Prince production had the best use of a revolving stage I've seen since the original Jerome Robbins staging of Fiddler.

Well, r173, I think we're just dealing in semantics here. I would argue that this is a financially successful...limited run. I wouldn't consider it a hit.

Why are we pretending that this Merrily We Roll Along wasn't reviewed already? All the major critics reviewed it at NYTW. Short of it not holding a larger space, they already were pretty ecstatic about it.

Thanks, r177. I was about to post the same thing. Those positive reviews were among the reasons they're selling SO MANY TICKETS!

[quote]Anything can be a hit with the right stars.

"Moose Murders" with Meryl, Hugh Jackman, Barbra Streisand, and Tom Cruise!

Even with the raves it's poised to get, I predict Purlie Victorious is going to be a hard sell.

I think one thing PURLIE VICTORIOUS has going against it is that, apparently, many people are mistaking this for a revival of the musical.

R181-I think you're right, I thought I read somewhere that they're reviving the musical?

I'm a little surprised they're reviving this. Does anyone know if it's the original script? I mean talk about the opposite of woke.

I saw the movie on TV many years ago. I know the plantation owner is portrayed as a villain, but IIRC, he walks around with a whip and threatens to whip the Lutiebell character and the Godfrey Cambridge character (Purlie's cousin?), and I think he even whips his butt in one scene? Maybe they cut that scene and/or did some rewriting?

The revival of " Purlie" will have a much different subtext, especially between Lutiebelle and the master:

Throughout the narrative, the white partners are incapable of recognizing, or naming, their partners race, rather it is because of guilt, or because they get defensive. The play makes whiteness, and white privilege, hyper visible in interracial relationships.

[quote]Merrily We Roll Along is finally a hit after forty-two years, and I'll wager a review-proof one.

Sondheimites will keep it going for 12 to 18 weeks as with all Sondheim shows.

r184, Are you the same loon who says "Sondheimite" in every thread? Aren't you as bored of it as we are with you?

[quote]The revival of " Purlie" will have a much different subtext, especially between Lutiebelle and the master:

If nobody's singing, "I Got Love" I ain't going.

Ditto, r186.

It really is something when a decade old production of one of Sondheim's weaker shows (love the score, but the book is weak), could be a surprise hit. Maybe Maria Friedman should try directing Pacific Overtures next.

In his most recent memoir, Jack O'Brien, who directed Jerry Lewis in that DAMN YANKEES, writes admiringly, even fondly of him and his work in the show. Interesting reading.

What did he say about Jarrod Emick?

Here's how you make big bucks on Broadway: Die.

Jonathan Larson -- RENT

And Stephen Sondheim has the biggest grosses of his career -- SWEENEY and MERRILY -- after he dies.

If you want to make zillions -- die.

[quote]If you want to make zillions -- die.

No shit.

Original orchestrations? You think producers today spend money on musicians? It will sound like some rinky dink community band on Memorial day playing lesser known Sondheim. Which is most of his work.

And the original Pacific Overtures might be the greatest Broadway show I've seen or hope to see. Have never had any desire to see it since then. You are always burned when you see a revival of one of those works. Though I liked the Hearn, Kaye Sweeney.

R191, My death got my wife a talk show gig.

R194 Mary Jo, I can't believe you just said that!

[quote]If you want to make zillions -- die.

[quote]No shit. —Paul Gauguin

Thanks for the advice Paul!

Sweeney Todd is not a hit because Sondheim died. It’s a hit because of Josh Groban/Annaleigh Ashford.

Merrily is not a hit because Sondheim died, it’s a hit because of Groff/Radcliff

Into The Woods was a hit because of Sara.

I never saw a penny. So who got the money?

R198, Your gay nephew, Bruce Van Gogh.

[quote]I never saw a penny. So who got the money?

[quote]—V. VanGogh

Wasn't me.

[quote]Here's how you make big bucks on Broadway: Die.

[quote]If you want to make zillions -- die.

No one mourns the wicked.

Vince that one painting made you millions so I don't know what you're bitching about.

Have we discussed?

This is.... odd.

I did not care for the movie, frankly.

R204 judging by that poster, did they change the main character into a woman?

[quote]Vince that one painting made you millions so I don't know what you're bitching about.

But, I was DEAD!!! DEAD!!! DEAD!!!

[quote]It is estimated that van Gogh made only around 800 euros from the sale of his paintings during his lifetime. In today’s money, that would be equivalent to around 8,000 euros. However, after his death, his paintings rapidly increased in value and today they are worth hundreds of millions of euros.

Taran Killam was hilarious in the Jake Gyllenhaal / Ellen Greene "Little Shop Of Horrors" concert as Orin Scrivello D.D.S.

So is The Wiz becoming the new Follies here? Oh dear.

[quote]Though I liked the Hearn, Kaye Sweeney.

I know who you meant, but for a second I had a vision of Kaye Ballard as Mrs. Lovett.

Betty Boop...

[quote]Taran Killam was hilarious in the Jake Gyllenhaal / Ellen Greene "Little Shop Of Horrors" concert as Orin Scrivello D.D.S.

Okay, I guess.

Love the Betty Boop nod to Sweet Charity....Nice

How about theater producers surprise the audience and NOT always cast black actors in traditionally white roles? It's become too predictable. It's no longer " ground-breaking."

R213, Blame it on David Merrick.

R213 -

Esther Lee "Baby Esther" Jones, a Black Chicago woman and well-known singer of the 1920s, is the initial inspiration for the cartoon character, Betty Boop, who first appeared in the 1930s.

The more you know.

Sure, hon. And Marsha threw the first brick.

r215...

[quote]Betty Boop made her first appearance in the cartoon Dizzy Dishes, released on August 9, 1930, the seventh installment in Fleischer's Talkartoon series. Inspired by a popular performing style, but not by any one specific person, the character was originally created as an anthropomorphic French poodle. Clara Bow is often given credit as being the inspiration for Boop, though Fleischer told his artists that he wanted a caricature of singer Helen Kane, who performed in a style shared by many performers of the day–Kane was also the one who sued Fleischer over the signature "Boop Oop a Doop" line. Betty Boop appeared as a supporting character in ten cartoons as a flapper girl with more heart than brains. In individual cartoons, she was called "Nancy Lee" or "Nan McGrew"—derived from the Helen Kane film Dangerous Nan McGrew (1930)—usually serving as a girlfriend to studio star Bimbo.

Who said Betty Boop was white?

[quote]Who said Betty Boop was white?

Max Fleischer

Where? When?

Betty's only appearance in color...

The character was created as a anthropomorphic dog. You could argue in one cartoon she may have been German Jewish. In another with Cab Calloway you could argue she’s Black. The point being that it is not specified, there is no canon and the producers of the new show cast the lead as they liked.

Go away, bigot.

Casting a black woman in a role originally conceived as white has turned into the biggest cliche in contemporary theatre.

[quote]In another with Cab Calloway you could argue she’s Black.

But, r222...she's Snow White.

*This* is how black people were depicted in cartoons. I don't have an issue with whoever plays her, but the original Betty Boop was white.

Just cut the crap, Klan Granny. Go masturbate on another thread.

That's the DL loon we all know and despise- jump to screaming KLAN GRANNY and shut down all conversation.

You're an asshole.

Incidentally, I recently watched WHO FRAMED ROGER RABBIT, which features a cameo by Betty Boop, which got me curious about he, so I Googled her.

I was shocked to learn that all of her short films (90 of them) were released in the 1930s. Nothing afterward. Except for two half-hour TV specials in the 1980s. That's it.

For some reason, I thought she was like CASPER THE FRIENDLY GHOST and they kept revising her character every generation.

[quote]It really is something when a decade old production of one of Sondheim's weaker shows (love the score, but the book is weak), could be a surprise hit. Maybe Maria Friedman should try directing Pacific Overtures next.

Despite the party line you're being handed by some of the critics and others, this production is a hit NOT because of Friedman's direction but primarily due to the star casting. In fact, IMHO, it's a hit more in spite of her direction than because of it.

What's going on at Golden Rainbow? Is Walter Marks funding a new complete cast recording that includes all the cut songs? Did Max Von Essen recover? Will Marilyn Maye drop in and sing her chart of the title song in her original key?

[quote]So is The Wiz becoming the new Follies here? Oh dear.

Well no one will sing "Ease On Down The Road" as well as Dorothy Collins!

No —not all discussion. Just the bigoted bullshit. And by that mean the shit you’re shoveling.

Try as you may you can't rewrite history, r232.

Marilyn Maye = leather lungs

[quote] No —not all discussion. Just the bigoted bullshit. And by that mean the shit you’re shoveling.

I'm not the person discussing the topic on here, just someone reading the comments and letting you know you're blowing everything way out of proportion. No one is being racist about the topic. You're just an asshole.

Will Steve Lawrence make a surprise visit to Golden Rainbow?

R236 I have it on good authority that Ricky Martin will be attending Golden Shower

Well, you can't have a Golden Rainbow, without a Golden Shower, so . . .

It would seem to be that Betty Boop is the new Follies!

R236. Over my dead body

r240 Who?

Betty Boop played a lot on NY stations when I was a boy. She kind of frightened me. She was voiced by Mae Questal the film Mrs Strakosh in Funny Girl. She also did Olive Oyl.

By the way Merrick was criticized about the black Pearl Bailey Hello Dolly from people calling it a minstrel show. Being David Merrick he didn't give a shit.

A favorite story of mine was Bailey would have endless curtain calls. One night a musician got fed up with it and could be loudly heard from the pit saying something like 'Oh for Christ's sake get on with it!' He was just required to apologize to her. Don't know if she wanted to have him fired or couldn't be because the musician's union was so strong then.

Jonathan Tunick speaks to Michael Riedel about his work with Sondheim, including on the upcoming Here We Are... (well... he can't say much about it due to confidentiality agreements)

[quote]By the way Merrick was criticized about the black Pearl Bailey Hello Dolly from people calling it a minstrel show.

I don't remember that, r242. It was the same show as Channing's.

Dr. Strangelove coming in 2024!

Who are the Slim Pickenses of today?

Yes but all the entire white cast was replaced by an entirely black one. A gimmick some people did not like.

[quote]A favorite story of mine was Bailey would have endless curtain calls.

I don't think she did endless curtain calls, but she did famously do a "third act" of the show every night -- after the curtain calls -- wherein she bantered with the audience for a while.

The only complaints about the Pearl Bailey Hello Dolly! were on DataLounge 1969.

[quote]Yes but all the entire white cast was replaced by an entirely black one. A gimmick some people did not like.

I think you're misremembering. Maybe the replaced cast members had a beef, but an integrated Dolly wouldn't have flown in 1967.

Maybe some people didn't like it, but a lot more did. It was a huge success and incredibly fun. I saw it and you can hear the joy on the cast album.

Maybe someone can conform, but I think Bailey did a Dolly tour later on that was integrated. A white friend claims he was in the chorus, but he's been known to fib.

R251 it's referenced above. It was around 1975 was integrated and had Billy Daniels as Horace. Bailey broke character so often it became the Pearl Bailey show.

Well, the production was smack dab in the middle of the very volatile years of the civil rights movement. Bailey's version was during the assassinations of MLK and RFK. It's certainly possible that there were people out there who thought the show was taking that movement backwards, as they saw an all-black cast in an old fashioned show as being akin to the days of minstrels (which was certainly not Hello, Dolly, but people then AND NOW have a way of looking at things inflexibly).

I can understand how people (of any race) who were so committed and passionate about the Civil Rights movement would think- what a step back.

Actually, r253, the reality is that it employed more black performers than if it had been integrated. Nobody looked at it as a step back then nor did they when there was the black Guys and Dolls.

[quote]How about theater producers surprise the audience and NOT always cast black actors in traditionally white roles? It's become too predictable. It's no longer " ground-breaking."

What are you complaining about? Betty Boop was originally a dog.

Purlie reviews mostly raves. Will it sell now?

[quote]What are you complaining about? Betty Boop was originally a dog. - Lassie.

And YOU were a male. You fucking fake.

[quote]: All nine Lassies have been male dogs. Mature female collies go into heat twice a year and shed a large part of their coats during that time. That ruins the dog’s appearance for as much as a third of the year.

[quote]Dr. Strangelove coming in 2024!

Needs to be a musical. I've got the closing number.

[quote]All nine Lassies have been male dogs

Not true! Everyone who ever worked with Lassie said she was a real bitch!

Or was that Helen Lawson ...

[quote] Actually, [R253], the reality is that it employed more black performers than if it had been integrated. Nobody looked at it as a step back then nor did they when there was the black Guys and Dolls.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all. I'm just trying to pose some plausible scenarios for why there was a backlash against that production of the show.

R246, the role Slim Pickens played will probably cast with Black actor David Harewood since he was so believable as William F. Buckley on the London stage earlier this year.

Fuck off 261.

Can you link to the "backlash", you refer to, r260? I'm over a decade older than you are and I don't remember anything like that.

Pearl had a successful run, won a special Tony and recorded a new cast album. If there was backlash it certainly didn't hurt Pearl or the show.

[quote] Can you link to the "backlash", you refer to, [R260]? I'm over a decade older than you are and I don't remember anything like that.

I didn't make the claim of backlash. I was just responding to the person who said that there was. I don't know that there was as it was before my time, but the claim of the person who made it seemed like something they remembered specifically, and that it was not from a racist point of view, but from the view of activists who thought it was setting the civil rights movement back. I was just offering possible reasons for those views.

[quote]Too bad this is the revised version. If it were the original I would have been interested. The revised version at Encores was crap.

Bizarre!

The first order of business was to jettison the super fun and not broken "Rich & Happy" from near the top of Act I! WTF? It actually worked perfectly well, even in 1981! The new awful number called "Oh, Frank" or some bullshit doesn't even sound like a Sondheim song. Sondheim was always able to write dreck and lose sight of his own work the same as every other songwriter, but this has to be the clearest example of it!

Nobody thought it set the movement back, r265.

[quote] Nobody thought it set the movement back, [R265].

So I should ignore what the person upthread claimed because you tell me to?

Oh, okay.

Believe whatever you want to, r268.

[quote]Dr. Strangelove coming in 2024!

My precious bodily fluids are simmering in anticipation!

[quote] Believe whatever you want to, [R268].

I don't necessarily believe or disbelieve either of you. But I absolutely find it plausible that there was a faction (however small or large) who looked at an all-Black Hello, Dolly in the thick of the civil rights movement as detrimental. I don't agree with it, but I can understand it surfacing. And unless you're the reincarnation of David Merrick, I'm not sure you can disprove it. Just because you never heard of it doesn't mean it didn't happen. And just because the poster upthread said it happened doesn't mean it did. I can just see it as a possibility.

I like Coogan, but am dubious about even a non-musical stage adaptation of "Dr. Strangelove." What can the theater add that the movie lacks? And Russians aren't the best choice for comic adversaries right now...

NYT reviews "Purlie Victorious":

Deadline:

[quote]But I absolutely find it plausible that there was a faction (however small or large) who looked at an all-Black Hello, Dolly in the thick of the civil rights movement as detrimental.

Fine, r271, believe what you want. I'm telling you I have no memory of that reaction and the other poster provided no link to prove his assertions. Finally it's idiotic to think it was a setback to the civil rights movement because an entirely black cast was getting to perform in the hottest show on Broadway. Again, believe what you want.

Fine, dear. Are you happy you got the last word, too?

I have the Best of Enemies to watch, but to be honest, the casting of a black man as Buckley just seems fucking stupid.

But and this is a big but Pearl was known to miss a few too many performances which infuriated Merrick because if she wasn't in it you got your money back and she made it a sell out. Not sure if this is correct but it was Thelma Carpenter who went on a few more times than she should have.

'She replaced Pearl Bailey more than 100 times and became the fully billed matinee star, with her name in all ads.'

I wish I had seen the '75 production. Maybe Bailey's record of showing up was better in that one.

I hesitate to contribute more vague memories of a possible "backlash" to Pearl Bailey's "Hello, Dolly!," but I do recall reading a review of the production when it opened, and I'm pretty sure it was in the New York Times (so, maybe written by Clive Barnes?), that generally praised the show while noting that "at times it resembles 'Blackbirds of 1928.' " I was a young teenager at the time and had never heard of "Blackbirds of 1928" (a big hit in its day), so the line really jumped out at me, and I suspected it was not meant to be complimentary. It seemed to imply there was something retro, rather than progressive, about doing a musical with an all-black cast.

R279 your vague memory is easily checked. If what you think is true, then you’d be able to find and share the original review from the online NYT archive. So you go do that and report back.

It won’t matter the raves that Purlie gets.

Unless a play has a HUGE star, or is a new/classic masterpiece, they don’t sell.

R279 go it it wrong. Clive Barnes wrote that going in he had his doubts about a non integrated black show-that the idea struck him as maybe offensive or patronizing….but then he says that was completely mistaken.

“But believe me, from the first to the last I was overwhelmed. Maybe Black Power is what some of the other musicals need.”

It was a rave…

Another poster here who saw Pearl in DOLLY as a high schooler and loved the whole production and remember nothing in the press or Broadway gossip (which I followed rabidly even then) concerning issues of retro-racism or whatever. Audiences were ecstatic!

Hello, Dolly! was embraced by LBJ and Lady Bird, first with Channing and then with Pearl.

Hello, Lyndon! became his 1964 campaign song.

They both attended the show more than once when Pearl was Dolly.

Yea—it’s funny how some of these trolls just ‘misremember’ things when it suits them, in support of their half-assed posts.

Or demand posters prove it didn't happen, rather than demand the person making the claim prove it did.

Robbie Fairchild To Star In Stage Adaptation Of Oscar Winner ‘The Artist’:

I know this story has been told before and I hope it's true but here goes.... Thelma Carpenter was on for Dolly one night when Pearl showed up at the theatre thinking she could step in mid performance. Carpenter saw Pearl standing in the wings and figured out what was going on so she mouthed 'fuck you' and went on with the performance.

I was in college when I saw Bailey's DOLLY on Broadway and can attest to the ecstatic reception it received. Had there been some major backlash against the production, I doubt I would have been aware of it; no social media to fan the flames. The times were different then. Had there been picketing outside the theater, I suspect we would have heard.

Pearl was not known for her generosity to fellow performers. Ask Diahann Carroll (if you could) about losing a major song in HOUSE OF FLOWERS because Bailey grabbed it for herself.

Merv Griffin, Barbara Walters, Lauren Bacall, Pearl Bailey . . . all gone.

Hey - I was the secret weapon in that Pearl Bailey production

r291 Where did they go?

Gone Are the Days! (aka Purlie Victorious / The Man From C.O.T.T.O.N.) is a 1963 American comedy-drama film starring Ossie Davis, Ruby Dee and Godfrey Cambridge. It is based on the 1961 Broadway play Purlie Victorious, which was written by Davis.[1] Davis, Dee, Cambridge, Beah Richards, Alan Alda and Sorrell Booke reprised their roles from the play. This was also Alda's film debut.

A young, idealistic man returns home to the plantation where he grew up in servitude. With him, he brings his fiance, Lutiebelle, in hopes of convincing the plantation owner that she is really his cousin in order to secure the family inheritance. To aid in the comic complications that follow are his family members Missy and Gitlow, and the plantation owners endearing (but ineffectual) son Charlie. - Wikipedia/TCM Database

we loved the show until toward the middle when Pearly Mae started to get uppity.

So long, Tom Schumacher. Don't let the door hit you on your way out.

[quote] Or demand posters prove it didn't happen, rather than demand the person making the claim prove it did.

No one has done that in this particular case.

Thanks to whoever posted that story about Bailey and Carpenter. I had written earlier that I thought I'd remembered something similar between Carpenter and Clarice Taylor, but could find no incidence where they were in the same show together, so I knew I had one of the details wrong.

[quote]Video: See Cast of Harmony Perform Songs From the Show

Thoughts?

More about Tom Schumacher, please! This is the first I'm hearing of this.

Here you go.

Looks like the they are merely kicking him down the hall, not out the door.

That Anne Quart person who was his assistant and will now succeed him (co-running with someone else) is a horrible person and has no vison or imagination. Why doesn't Disney get it together creatively and hire a genuine artist?

This move is long overdue. His track record hasn't been the best.

r301

[quote]I have made the decision to shift into a solely creative capacity by assuming the new role of DTG’s Chief Creative Officer. This role allows me to focus on the aspect of our work that is closest to my heart. I’ll continue to report to Alan Bergman in this capacity.”

[quote]Flatt will serve as EVP, Managing Director, with responsibility for DTG’s core strategy and business operations, including finance and technology, business and legal affairs, HR and DEI, labor relations, marketing, publicity, sales and education, merchandise, domestic touring and international partnerships, as well as general oversight of licensing globally, including long-standing relationships with partners like Feld Entertainment and Music Theatre International.

[quote]Quart will serve as EVP, Producing and Development, as well as Executive Producer on current and future shows, overseeing global slate from inception to execution.

So now three people will be running Disney Theatrical? I'm sure that won't create any corporate drama. Well, I say three, it's pretty obvious from the details that the role Quart is being given is pretty much a figurehead thing

[quote]I didn't make the claim of backlash. I was just responding to the person who said that there was. I don't know that there was as it was before my time, but the claim of the person who made it seemed like something they remembered specifically, and that it was not from a racist point of view, but from the view of activists who thought it was setting the civil rights movement back. I was just offering possible reasons for those views.

R265, I understood exactly what you meant, and I'm sorry that some people are simply too stupid to get it.

And those possible reasons offered weren’t accurate. That’s all.

[quote]Fine, [R271], believe what you want. I'm telling you I have no memory of that reaction and the other poster provided no link to prove his assertions. Finally it's idiotic to think it was a setback to the civil rights movement because an entirely black cast was getting to perform in the hottest show on Broadway. Again, believe what you want.

R275, there is no polite way to tell you that you are an idiot if you don't believe ANYONE at the time objected to the all-black HELLO, DOLLY! as minstrelsy and/or on the grounds that the cast was entirely black, which certainly could be perceived as segregation. And AGAIN, this DOES NOT mean that I or anyone else here agree with those sentiments, but it's asinine to think that NO ONE at the time felt that way.

Couldn't you take this particular discussion to the Heartstopper thread?

They live for this kind of shit.

Fine, r308, as I've said...believe what you want. I remember when Pearl went into Dolly and I *don't* remember any kind of backlash. That was my lived experience.

Find one for us—there’s whole web out there you can search. Name ‘em—just one.

If you two don't take this ridiculous debate outside, I swear I will fill this thread with Follies.

[quote]Yes but all the entire white cast was replaced by an entirely black one. A gimmick some people did not like.

Well, r247, Who *were* these people you refer to? Link?

That's hardly a threat, r312

BOOP is gonna be a yuuuge flop.

This thread—

Moving along then!

Who are the producers looking to move "Suffs" to Broadway?

Now [italic] this [/italic] is a backlash. We all hate you both.

We've moved on, r319.

It is not two posters. Several keep alleging a scenario without any supporting evidence. Many others point out that lack of evidence and even provide info to the contrary. The end. Don’t be so dramatic

Meet Betty Boop!

I'm getting Jackee vibes from the actress playing Betty B. She certainly looks adorable.

[quote]In BOOP!, Betty's dream of an ordinary day off from the super-celebrity in her black-and-white world leads to an adventure of color, music, and love in New York City—one that reminds her and the world, “You are capable of amazing things.”

Maybe this will be what New York, New York wasn't.

From this LIFE magazine retrospective piece:

Interestingly, Bailey told LIFE that when she signed on as Dolly, she was not told anything about the racial composition of the rest of the cast. The choice to use only Black actors was not without its dissenters—including Frederick O’Neal, who was the first Black president of Actor’s Equity and felt that a mixed-race cast would be more in line with the goal of integration. LIFE also cited white critics who found the idea of an all-black cast condescending, and mentioned that some wondered if this might lead to an all-white Porgy and Bess.

Bailey’s response to LIFE was: “If anyone was worried about integration, why didn’t they worry about it at the time of the first Dolly?”

Team Pearl—

No push back

Thank you, r325, I wasn't aware of that.

R325, It was the ultimate stunt casting, something David Merrick excelled at.

According to Bruce Vilanch, Merrick toyed with the idea of Jack Benny playing Dolly to George Burns’ Horace.

R328 Phyllis Diller said that. When the stunt casting didn't go through, he hired Diller.

Hardly the *ultimate* stunt casting, r328, Pearl was perfectly suited for the role.

R313 why don't you read the entire thread? You don't seem to have done that. The Clive Barnes review alone. Are you just making an effort to be dim?

[quote]Interestingly, Bailey told LIFE that when she signed on as Dolly, she was not told anything about the racial composition of the rest of the cast. The choice to use only Black actors was not without its dissenters—including Frederick O’Neal, who was the first Black president of Actor’s Equity and felt that a mixed-race cast would be more in line with the goal of integration. LIFE also cited white critics who found the idea of an all-black cast condescending, and mentioned that some wondered if this might lead to an all-white Porgy and Bess.

Thanks, R325. I don't think ANYONE here suggested that there was any sort of a major backlash to the all-black HELLO, DOLLY! Nevertheless, several idiots in this thread have gone to the extreme and insisted that there were NO objections to the casting whatsoever, demanding proof in the form of at least one example. So thanks again for providing it.

[quote]In BOOP!, Betty's dream of an ordinary day off from the super-celebrity in her black-and-white world leads to an adventure of color, music, and love in New York City—one that reminds her and the world, “You are capable of amazing things.”

A show that takes place in NYC? How imaginative!!! It's never been done. And, to top it off, female empowerment? Amazing!

That’s a second-hand source. It’s not the original article.

I don't think it has anything to do with female empowerment, r333. Sounds like it's more about being optimistic... like Annie.

R334, just stop it.

I’ll push back against implied or expressed bigotry where and when I choose, in my own way. Your beef is with those who started this with bigoted comments and not the rest of us. Thank uou..

You know that song from Frozen, r337?

FOLLIES!

[quote] I’ll push back against implied or expressed bigotry where and when I choose, in my own way. Your beef is with those who started this with bigoted comments and not the rest of us. Thank uou..

There haven't been any bigoted comments about the Hello, Dolly situation, only thoughtful discussion... with ONE exception. YOU.

Florenz Ziegfeld Jr. attended performances, and purchased some of the content of Darktown Follies for use in Ziegfeld Follies

[quote]I’ll push back against implied or expressed bigotry where and when I choose, in my own way. Your beef is with those who started this with bigoted comments and not the rest of us.

That's an incredibly asinine comment, because however anyone feels about some people wondering if there was any backlash to the casting of the all-black HELLO, DOLLY!, there is literally nothing about doing so that indicates "bigotry."

Read the entire thread, if you can read. TIA

Sweetie, more than one person has told you there's been no bigotry in the Hello, Dolly conversation. Maybe you're misremembering, since we all know your memory ain't that sharp.

Worst theater gossip thread ever.

Gosh, if Betty Boop takes place in NYC do you think there could be a funny scene of harried NYers at rush hour cramming onto the subway and miming holding the handstraps as they all crush into Betty's boobs?

Some Like it Hot posts closing notice.

December 30.

The bitchy YKW will start in 3…2…1

[quote]Worst theater gossip thread ever.

Nah

So when Baillie was replaced by dealer, did they fire the entire Black company? Did they rehire the prior White company?

Bailey. Diller. Voice-typing

I have to imagine that once Will Swenson's done on Oct. 29, A Beautiful Noise will also pack it up.

ABN is doing decent numbers all of a sudden. But they'll never get a name to headline this shitshow.

Do you think any of the alte kakers who are going to that have any idea who’s in it?

[quote]Worst theater gossip thread ever.

[quote]Nah

Agree. Not even close, r349. Started really strong, right on time, great title. Got waylaid a bit in the middle there, but it's meandering back on track.

Sorry to hear about Some Like It Hot, but they had a good run, all things considered. I'm intrigued by Boop.

[quote]Started really strong, right on time, great title.

Yeah, great title.

It's okay. Seems better than it is only because the last several were positively terrible.

The Great Gatsby at Paper Mill Playhouse begins with Jeremy Jordan removing his mask and singing, "I don't know about you, but I'm done with the Spanish flu."

It's certainly a choice.

Holy Christ, did the Simpsons writers create that?

New Orleans!

You're a dame and I'm a fella

Stanley stop or I'll tell Stella.

I hate every ape I see

From Chim Pan A to Chim Pan Zee!

Waaaaay better than this.

R361, Is that you Marc Shaiman?

[quote]Sorry to hear about Some Like It Hot, but they had a good run, all things considered.

I don't know what you mean by "all things considered," but your statement is not true. By present-day standards, a run of just over a year is NOT a "good run" for a new Broadway musical. Even back in the 1950s, a run of less than two years would have been considered disappointing.

Marc Shaiman posted the following on social media:

"We just never took off at the box office enough to survive. It's a new, terrible world. Everyone thought it was such a hit, thinking it would be there forever, no rush, and now, well....If you want to see it, you have 13 weeks to do so."

That's an interesting way of looking at it, to say the least: "We're closing because people thought the show was a big hit so they didn't rush to buy tickets." Does he mean that if all those people who haven't seen the show yet had thought it WASN'T a hit, they would have bought tickets sooner?

Also, I'm not sure exactly what he means by "It's a new, terrible world," and though I think many of us would agree with him on that in some ways, I expect some producers of other shows would disagree.

[quote]Sorry to hear about Some Like It Hot, but they had a good run, all things considered.

[quote]I don't know what you mean by "all things considered," but your statement is not true. By present-day standards, a run of just over a year is NOT a "good run" for a new Broadway musical. Even back in the 1950s, a run of less than two years would have been considered disappointing.

Well, I'll get right on that getting disappointed thing, R363. :)

I always assume people understand that most of what anyone posts here is opinion. My opinion was that SLIH had a pretty good run, meaning it exceeded my expectations of how long it would run.

At the risk of changing the subject, MERRILY is doing very well indeed at the Hudson (a perfect theater for this show). If they could just get rid of the dross—everything with GUSSIE, I mean EVERYTHING—it would be a joy. The cast couldn't be better and seem to be having a helluva good time. Saw Maria Friedman giving tech notes after the show, so guess there could be some further tightening. The audience was highly enthusiastic without the banshee screaming that greets so many other shows. Can't wait to return .

PS. When did some theaters start serving drinks in glass containers? I kept tripping over glass cocktail glasses and champagne flutes between the rows. Accidents waiting to happen.

Some Like It Hot is a C+ effort of a show. It should have been gone a long time ago.

[quote]My opinion was that SLIH had a pretty good run, meaning it exceeded my expectations of how long it would run.

Well, by that definition, your comment makes sense. But I don't think that's what's generally meant by "a good run," and I doubt that the people involved in the show would label it that way.

By the way, it was announced at the end of August that J. Harrison Ghee would be out of the show for at least six weeks for surgery. So I wonder if he'll return sometime in late October or November or whenever to finish out the run? And on that note, it can't have helped this show at the box office that it's one Tony winner in the acting categories had to be absent for all that time.

[quote]My opinion was that SLIH had a pretty good run, meaning it exceeded my expectations of how long it would run.

[quote]Well, by that definition, your comment makes sense. But I don't think that's what's generally meant by "a good run," and I doubt that the people involved in the show would label it that way.

It's funny you would phrase it that way, because I've been involved in many shows, and I was always more than happy with a show than ran as long as SLIH. Take a little break, regroup, move on to the next show.

Sorry I wasn't clearer.

By all accounts Phyllis Diller was wonderful in Dolly. I wish I had seen her and Pearl Bailey.

I've seen clips of Ginger Rogers who stank, imo. She's just a phoney actress. She opened the show in London so I guess she got people to buy tickets.

The Tom Kirdahy School Of Producing.

Ginger Rogers opened "Mame" in London; she was the second Dolly on Broadway, replacing Carol Channing. London Dolly was Mary Martin, succeeded by Dora Bryan.

Ethel!

[quote]Ginger Rogers opened "Mame" in London

I didn't know Angela Lansbury didn't do the original London transfer. I just always assumed she did.

Did Angela go on tour in the states with Mame after her Broadway run?

A friend did ushering for two perfs of Kimberly(her theater is dark.)

Once she did the mezz and said it was mostly empty. Second she was in the orch and it was 3/4 full.

When I saw the Encores Merrily I was wondering why there was so much Gussie. It was a small role in the original and needed no expanding.

There must be quite a lot of people trying the lottery every day.

Too bad we'll never see the beautiful original again. But I may be the only one who feels that way.

[quote] Did Angela go on tour in the states with Mame after her Broadway run?

Celeste Holm did the national tour. After Broadway, Angela played Mame in San Francisco and Los Angeles, something of a tryout for the film version.

Anyone see the new Sondheim?

[quote]Too bad we'll never see the beautiful original again. But I may be the only one who feels that way.

I feel that way, too. I even miss the graduation bookends. I dislike the way the show opens now. There's no longer a context for the song "Merrily We Roll Along."

Catch Me If You Can was a much better Marc Shaiman musical than Some Like it Hot and it closed in five months.

If the version of Catch that opened in Seattle had made it to Broadway, it would have run much longer.

So how much were the producers pouring into Hot every week after its opening? Look like they are going to lose so much more than the original investment. Probably a tax write off for whatever corporation invested in it.

[quote]Everyone thought it was such a hit, thinking it would be there forever, no rush, and now, well....If you want to see it, you have 13 weeks to do so."

It's not 1975 where as a kid on Sunday morning with a hot buttered onion bagel, I was sprawled on the living room floor with The New York Times entertainment section. That's all I had, a full page ad announcing a new show to decide if I wanted to see it. Now with all the pre-opening hoopla, nothing I saw gave me any desire to see this show. Nothing.

r382 There's a rumour on social media that it's one benefactor in particular who has been keeping it open

[quote]Did Angela go on tour in the states with Mame after her Broadway run?

In the summer of '72 I saw Lansbury as "Mame" at the Westbury Music Fair on Long Island. It was "in the round" so I'll assume she did a tour of similar theatres around the country.

R384 Do they know who, specifically?

r386 Nope

If Jule Styne couldn't write a good score for a show like this nobody could(and I saw Sugar 3 times for Morse and Ritchard.) Maybe if he had written it 10 years earlier when he was still at the height of his powers. After Funny Girl which is a sensational score he never came close again. It's as if he had used up all his remaining musical gifts with that show.

Well that obviously very very rich benefactor loved the show or somebody in it. There were a few flop shows I loved I would have done that for.

Having Jay Gatsby sing the opening suggests a deep misunderstanding of the source material. There's a reason he doesn't show up until Chapter 3 in the novel.

[quote]We just never took off at the box office enough to survive. It's a new, terrible world.

But whose fault is that? I've been considering theatre trips to both New York and London (hey, Ouiser!) and the prices for good seats are astronomical, let alone the prices for really good seats.

The quality of the material aside, purely from an economic standpoint, is theatre (or I guess more musical theatre) meant to create massive profits that can even create fortunes like Lloyd Webber's or Cameron Mackintosh's?

It's a terrible new world for everybody. At this rate, in London, the only thing standing will be Phantom and Les Mis and the rest will run for four months.

I LOVE this quote from bloody Norma:

"There are so many parallels between Sunset Boulevard and what you have to do to make it in Hollywood."

Well... yeah.

Reminds me of when Brooke Shields once said, "Smoking kills and If you're killed, you've lost a very important part of your life." 😂

Casey Garvin has been putting his OnlyFans earnings into the show and that's what's been keeping it running.

Well that'd be a balcony seat paid for

There they are...

'Here We Are'?

I hate those kinds of titles.

'I'm Not There' is another one.

And 'This Is Us.'

Where’s the Rest of Me?

I wonder if Frank Rich will write that she was miscast?

I'm so glad they changed AWAY WE GO! to OKLAHOMA! when they musicalized the play.

What was wrong with “ Green Grow the Lilacs”?

Lilacs are purple.

[quote]'Here We Are'? I hate those kinds of titles.

Perhaps it is a callback to "I'm Still Here"?

And there you are!

I know it was posted upthread, just sharing the Deadline article on the closing

I"m getting ASSASSINS meets RENT energy from the photo at R396. Set in a suburban mall somewhere, maybe.

“Here We Are” sounds like it should be a musical version of Dorothy Parker stories.

I wonder if Shaiman means/thinks that SLIH because of anti trans sentiment and that’s why it’s a terrible world

I always remember Nicole for her appearance on Conan.

[quote]It's funny you would phrase it that way, because I've been involved in many shows, and I was always more than happy with a show than ran as long as SLIH. Take a little break, regroup, move on to the next show.

But on what level were you involved? Were you actually in those shows? Of course, I'm talking from the point of view of the producers and the investors, also the perception of the general public as to whether or not a show was a hit. I'm surprised if that's not clear to you.

"Here We Are" reminded me of a "Skin of Our Teeth". Lots of dream logic and a feeling you just have to go along with the absurd plot. It made me more curious about the Bunuel movies.

Denis O'Hare was a standout as various mean servers and then the one who holds the group "hostage " in the second act. Steven Pasquale was perfectly sleazy as a politician(?) from an imaginary country.

I like the music, which is almost all in the first act, but I'm a huge fan of the "talking to music"/Pacific Overtures/downbeat Follies sound. I kept hearing something that was like a "Someone in a Tree" remix/rhythm repeatedly.

There is a more traditional duet between the two younger characters that was cool, it seemed to get the most applause.

The crowd was younger than I thought it would be, having only seen pretty old people at The Shed. I definitely want to revisit and see how/if it changes.

In the only clip of Ginger Rogers as DOLLY! that I've seen, her performance does indeed come across as very fake, with a lot of indicating. Judge for yourselves:

[quote]The figures suggest a fairly steady decline in audience interest from the show’s most recent high point of $1,143,488, which came in June following the musical’s decent showing at the Tony Awards, where J. Harrison Ghee took the coveted trophy for best lead actor in a musical.

Interesting that neither the Deadline article nor the press release about the show's closing happen to mention that Ghee has been out of the show since the beginning of September due to surgery. At the time that was announced, it was said that he would be out of the show for "at least six weeks," which would mean he's not expected back till mid-October. I wonder what's the status of that?

Is Discreet Charm the Bunuel film with the priest who (I won't say it because it would be a spoiler)does something you don't expect.

This show would benefit from the star power of Mandy Patinkin!

R411 t-shirt sales

Oh Mandy there isn’t a stick of scenery in the world you haven’t chewed.

R414. Ghee was photographed at an opening a few weeks ago so I hope that means he's on the mend and will be returning soon.

She was a bright and shiny Mame...

With the failure of Some Like It Hot, cooler heads should seriously rethink the dismal SMASH reboot idea with the same writers/producers. No one wants to see that dross, either.

I would be more interested in seeing them put BOMBSHELL on stage instead of SMASH. But I doubt that would succeed either. Lili Cooper IS Marilyn Monroe!

R413 You're right but it's still enjoyable.

Marc Shaiman needs to realize he had one hit musical 20 years ago and call it a day. No one is interested in his bag of tricks this late in the game.

[quote] I wonder if Shaiman means/thinks that SLIH because of anti trans sentiment and that’s why it’s a terrible world

More like it's a terrible world when we have to change everything to fit PC bullshit.

[quote]Interesting that neither the Deadline article nor the press release about the show's closing happen to mention that Ghee has been out of the show since the beginning of September due to surgery.

What surgery?

R426, Transitioning.

[quote]More like it's a terrible world when we have to change everything to fit PC bullshit.

Yeah, I would agree with Shaiman if that's what he meant, but I HIGHLY doubt that's what he meant.

Then what did he mean by "terrible world" in regards to SLIH?

Here We Are, tonight.

I'm not there tonight, r430...

[quote]Then what did he mean by "terrible world" in regards to SLIH?

I dunno, you'll have to ask him. But maybe he just means it's a terrible world in which he's underappreciated and most of his Broadway shows since HAIRSPRAY have flopped to one degree or another. And that would include CATCH ME IF YOU CAN, CHARLIE AND THE CHOCOLATE FACTORY, and now SOME LIKE IT HOT

[quote] Yeah, I would agree with Shaiman if that's what he meant, but I HIGHLY doubt that's what he meant.

No, I'm sure that's not at all what he meant. I was just being facetious (though I agree with my statement, as well).

[quote] What was wrong with “ Green Grow the Lilacs”?

They should have titled it, “Green Grow The Lilacs, The Musical!”

How about Loud Sing the Lilacs?

Liliom, The Musical!

Don't forget LOOK TO THE LILLIES!

[quote]Don't forget LOOK TO THE LILLIES!

Why? Everyone else has.

[quote]I agree with my statement, as well

A brave, brave, brave position to take!

Brazilian Beanie

[Quote] I agree with my statement, as well

Needs to be in the next thread title

"It's a new, terrible world"

He's right. We're living in a moment where the excitement/awards around a show just isn't having the impact it used to. That fact that both SLIH and Kimberly haven't soared/SROed is disappointing, because they stack up well against many other musicals that have run longer. Everything is so expensive now that investors are fatigued, and HOT, NY NY, HERE LIES LOVE, and Brittany were all around $20 million are totally goose eggs. That's $80 million burned. That has to be an impact.

Any shows this evening cancelled because of the flooding ?

Miss Charlotte has said the shows will go on!

[quote]The show makes its posthumous world premiere beginning September 28.

Its posthumous world premiere? In other words, "Here We Are" will be dead on arrival?

R428, Maybe he just means that he hasn’t gotten laid in a while.

Well, Ghee clearly didn't get new tits.

Thanks for the Ginger Rogers link R413. You're right; it looks like the ASL version of BEFORE THE PARDE PASSES BY.

Is anyone besides me appalled at the prices for some Broadway shows? I didn't go to see MUSIC MAN because of the absurd prices, and I'm skipping MERRILY (a show I love) for the same reason. An orchestra seat for MERRILY can cost as much as $500 before tax and fees.!

The problem is you’re a theater fan who lives in NYC

Broadway is for tourists now. There’s no room for us there anymore.

I'm old enough to remember when Broadway was first and foremost for NY theater lovers and then if the show was a big enough hit the tourists would follow. It was pretty great.

That also why there are no Broadway stars. The people who get marquee billing are film and TV stars.

So you must really enjoy watching The Gilded Age, R452.

Some of us enjoyed LIVING it, r454.

The reason I think "Some Like it Hot" failed to really resonate is because the TWO MAIN THINGS the story is NOT about is female empowerment, and the male characters having ANY identification/feelings about being actual women!

Those issues as well as anything to do with race have exactly zero to do with the story of the film that everybody already knows, and to layer them in in this "modern" ham-handed way just kills the fun! People want to be entertained not preached at and educated about the moral and spiritual superiority of people suffering from gender dysphoria! I don't give a fuck how many "progressives" keep bullying us, it's just not anything worth our time!

SLIH's failure is obvious:

Fans of the film didn't want to see a bastardization of it.

Non-fans of the film had no interest in seeing a musical based on a film they don't care about (and without stars).

It's pretty simple actually, Mark.

I think Shaiman's particular disappointment on SLIH is because the audiences and certainly all of his friends were going nuts for it during 4 weeks of previews. Word of mouth was actually pretty strong back then. So, I think he's just confused about the lack of enthusiasmm and Box office after it opened (and to pretty great reviews IIRC).

Also, anyone who thinks J Harrison Ghee's presence onstage at this point, Tony Award or not, is going to make any difference in the box office is deluded.

Unless it's a big star revival (like Hugh in MM or Bette in Dolly) audiences, old and young, want to see something new and fresh in Broadway musicals, like Hamilton. And I agree with the poster above who said Smash is gonna flop big. It was awful TV and the awfulness will only be more magnified on a Broadway stage.

Audiences are still willing to pay for shows they actually want to see. And that they have a great time at and tell their friends. The problem with the ticket prices isn't the amount per se, it's that if that is going to be the price, the show has to be A+ unmissable and life changing. There's no room for a 'soft hit' or a show that chugs along but is never anyone's first choice.

The people who complain about ticket prices are cherry picking to make a point. Go on Today Tix or TDF if you can get a membership and see the overwhelming majority of Broadway shows for well under $100, and off-Broadway for even less than that. Rush and digital lotteries help but you can get less expensive tickets without those. Join a papering service for $100 or so a year. It may be that you don't see your first choice shows from the best seat in the house, or on a Friday or Saturday night in the moment when the show has the most momentum, but keep trying and you'll get it somewhere near the price point you want at some point in the life of nearly every show.

About the same as the price per head of a full meal at a decent NYC restaurant (appetizer, cocktail, entree, dessert).

Music Man I saw for under $100. Here We Are is going to be under $150, which is about as high as I'll go for any single ticket. But Some Like It Hot and Kimberly Akimbo? Saw those long ago for under $50 each IIRC. You could spend that at an NYC movie on the IMAX ticket and refreshments.

It's when you paint yourself into a corner with "I'm only in New York this Saturday night and I have to see Show X, no other show will do" that they get you.

[quote]So, I think he's just confused about the lack of enthusiasmm and Box office after it opened

And that's showbiz, kids!

Marc was lied to and he was too stupid to see that they were lying.

r459, that's simply not true about hit Broadway shows unless you're willing to sit in the upper mezzanine or balcony or extreme rear sides of the orchestra. When you get to a certain age, that just isn't good enough.

[quote]Brazilian Beanie

To my dying day I will thank all the gods and goddesses that wasn't a pic of her bikini wax.

I had a different problem with Some Like It Hot. There's just no heat or sexiness driving the couplings. The Sugar and Joe relationship goes through all of its machinations, because that's the plot, but where is the attraction and fun that Tony Curtis and Marilyn Monroe generate in the movie? Does the Osgood-Daphne pairing work if, as is this case here, Osgood is more camp than Daphne? Even the change from Miami to San Diego proves deflating.

Thanks, R441, but what a POS article that is. It says that Ghee has been cleared to return to the cast of SLIH, but it doesn't give even a rough indication of when that might happen. And this is only the latest report to mention that Ghee had surgery without bothering to mention what TYPE of surgery, not even in general terms. Is it some sort of surgery that Ghee is trying to hide? If not, why be so mum about it?

R451 no. The problem is people are too discerning. If the show is good, New Yorkers will pay through the nose. We did it early on for Hamilton, etc etc.

The issue is the constant flow of subpar entertainment.

We don't have brilliant creators anymore.

[quote]"There are so many parallels between Sunset Boulevard and what you have to do to make it in Hollywood."

LOL! ! Hilarious, R392

[quote]"There are so many parallels between Sunset Boulevard and what you have to do to make it in Hollywood."

"There are so many parallels between 'Oklahoma' and what you have to do to make it in Oklahoma."

If Curly had married Jud instead of Laurey, he would be Curly Fry.

Honestly, R468, I could not fucking believe it. Jesus, that's some stupid.

"I think - when Norma kills Joe - she's just so angry she could kill!"

R470 that made me laugh out loud.

R462 you prove my point and you type old. The cheaper tickets are there, you just don't want them because of their location. The good seats are more, even to the shows that aren't selling out. The tickets to the hits are more.

There's still plenty of Broadway available if you're willing to bend on seat location and not seeing the hottest hits, and sometimes putting in a little extra effort (lottery or rush).

When has "I want a great seat at a low price to the hottest hit on Broadway" ever been a real and regularly available thing?

Why is Will Swenson-McDonald leaving the Neil Diamond musical?

[quote]When has "I want a great seat at a low price to the hottest hit on Broadway" ever been a real and regularly available thing?

This Eldergay is willing to pay up to $200 for a good seat, and by "good seat," I mean the first 15 rows of the orchestra (not extreme sides) and the first two rows of the front mezzanine. Until just a few years ago, that was a real and regular thing. Dynamic pricing has ruined it for most regular theater-goers.

[Quote] you prove my point and you type old

You’re a dick. I went to F&F you and saw I already had, which means you’re always a dick.

r475 You'll have to confine your theatergoing to "the regions."

[quote]If Curly had married Jud instead of Laurey, he would be Curly Fr.

OKLA-HOMO!

[quote]Fans of the film didn't want to see a bastardization of it.

[quote]Non-fans of the film had no interest in seeing a musical based on a film they don't care about (and without stars).

Agreed. If they had been faithful to the source material AND cast the show with actual stars, it would have been a hit.

[quote]Marc was lied to and he was too stupid to see that they were lying.

Yes, he was obviously surrounded by yes-men, if all he heard was positive feedback about the show.

I seriously doubt many of the theater goers today have ever heard of Some Like It Hot the movie.

[quote]Yes, he was obviously surrounded by yes-men, if all he heard was positive feedback about the show.

Based on the fact that Shaiman actually thought the Broadway production of CHARLIE AND THE CHOCOLATE FACTORY was a good show that failed for inexplicable reasons, rather than recognizing it for the awful production of a les than mediocre musical that t was, my guess is that he has become completely delusional in his old age.

R480 Then you live in a theater bubble.

Most theatergoers are not theater geeks.

They just want to be entertained or see their favorite movies brought to life.

R482, that wasn't my point. It's that most people have never heard of Some Like It Hot the movie.

Some like it Hot was 1959, almost 65 years ago. Back to the Future was 1983. What movie do you think most theatergoers would remember?

On the DL? Birth of a Nation

Shaiman should definitely be taking lessons from you lot.

R485, they saw opening night of the dance of the seven veils.

The jubilant orgy of ageism here is as revolting as most of the posters' taste in theater.

Don't be so touchy, sage.

My drag name is Ann Octaroon

Bernie and Lea!

How nice to have a FULL orchestra playing Sondheim. You hear that, Sonia & Maria?

R483, “Some Like it Hot” is a classic film and considered by many to be the best comedy ever made.

Arguably Marilyn Monroe’s best movie, it has remained popular for decades and I cannot see it ever becoming forgotten.

R492, it was 65 years ago. Maybe you can't see it being forgotten but if you did your own straw poll, I'd bet the majority of general populace never heard of it, especially the younger ones. The means of seeing it have radically changed and you have to seek it out.

R493, “Some Like it Hot” is easily accessible on multiple streaming services.

Classic films such as “Gone With the Wind”, “The Wizard of Oz”, “It’s a Wonderful Life”, etc. are over 80 years old and still remain popular today.

“The Sound of Music” is nearly 60 years old and earns a high rating when ABC airs it every December.

Good quality films are never forgotten.

There are very young youtubers who review old classic films they might have heard of, or their watchers suggest to them and you follow them as they watch it and they make comments. You don't watch them watch the whole film it's edited down to about 45 minutes. Some like It Hot is one of those films. I don't think it's as famous today as some people would have it. Maybe Gentlemen Prefer Blondes for Marilyn and Tiffany's for Audrey. But they are more known for being icons than their actual film work. Of course when Sugar opened everybody knew the movie and with the cast and creators it was expected to be a huge sell out hit. It wasn't. It was a matinee show. A pleasant way to pass an afternoon for old ladies. It wasn't even good enough to be a tired business man's musical.

But I tap-rap-tap did a great tap-tap-tap job.

R495 . . .

“Where is Some Like It Hot rated on AFI's 100 best movies list?

14th on AFI's 100 Greatest American Movies of All Time by American Film Institute.

19th on John Kobal Presents the Top 100 Movies by John Kobal.

21st on 100 All-Time Greatest Movies by Entertainment Weekly.

25th on The 100 best movies of all time by Time Out.”

Are you being deliberately obtuse? Or do you genuinely believe younger audiences are consulting those lists to decide what movies they want to watch?

Christ, I've seen some of the reaction channels r495 is talking about do Jurassic Park as a film they've never seen before.

It's not like in the 70s and 80s where there were fewer channels and SLIH was regularly shown as the afternoon movie. Regardless of it's prestige, it's definitely no WOZ which still gets yearly showings on TV.

I think you're the one being deliberately obtuse in thinking Some Like it Hot is akin to some forgotten pre-code film that only has a half disintegrated nitrate print left.

r500 But no-one is claiming that. What is being said is that younger audiences simply aren't aware of it. How is that in any way contentious? If I framed it as "dumb gen zs have never even heard of classic movies" would that make it more palatable for you?

If you're seeing anything contentious, it's because I'm just throwing your words back at you.

I want to be underwhelmed - Theatre Gossip Edition

R501 is selling younger people short. I have encountered numerous twentysomethings who are huge fans of TCM and old Hollywood.

This notion that younger generations will not watch a B&W movie is ridiculous.

Encountered? Seems rather fleeting to learn of such a distinct area of interest.

Here's what no one has ever acknowledged about of SLIH. The lyrics are just too much. Just try listening to the recording. Almost every song hasomnanywordssingingsofasttogiveyoualltheplot that you just shut down. Whitman keeps trying to be "witty" instead of finding the heart of the characters, or let the audience soak it in and fall in love with these people. Added Nicholaw's equally relentless direction and choreography and it all just stays distant and removed. The actors do what they can, but the woman playing Sugar just has no real star power, and her ridiculously clichéd song about escaping to the movies does nothing for the show or her, but boy can she BELT! It's all just B work, and that's why it never caught on. But I place the primary blame on Whitman.

[quote]Almost every song hasomnanywordssingingsofasttog - iveyoualltheplot that you just shut down.

I didn't know LuPone recorded it.

[quote], they saw opening night of the dance of the seven veils.

I saw the revival with Beanie Feldstein. They needed twelve veils.

R505, If you ever left your basement, you might encounter some too.

For what it's worth, SOME LIKE IT HOT is one of Marilyn Monroe's most popular films and she's still very popular.

After BLONDE came out last year and was Oscar-nominated for Best Actress, there were many youngsters seeking out MM's films, including SLIH.

SOME LIKE MY TWAT

Some Like My Cum Hot

THE SIGN IN SIDNEY BRUSTEIN'S SNATCH!

Oh, R509, you write professionally I'm guessing?

[quote]—DL never fails to amuse

You are the exception to the rule, r513.

I'll do it!

r506, your post would have been even "wittier" if you'd gotten the spelling of lyricist Scott Wittman right.

R506 . . .

For me it was simple: The film Some Like It Hot had enormous charm. The musical had none.

[quote]This notion that younger generations will not watch a B&W movie is ridiculous.

No, it's not ridiculous. The fact that a significant number of young people feel this way has been well documented, though I'm not aware of any survey that has determined exactly how large a percentage of young people that entails.

[quote]it's definitely no WOZ which still gets yearly showings on TV.

Are you posting from 1968, R499? The days of "The Wizard of Oz" getting an annual showing on CBS are long gone, although "The Sound of Music" and "The Ten Commandments" still get such showings, the latter at Easter. "Oz" is occasionally shown on TCM, say, when Judy Garland is the "star of the month," and of course has been available on home video for many years, including deluxe DVD and Blu-ray editions.

Does it stream? If not I don’t know her…

[quote]This notion that younger generations will not watch a B&W movie is ridiculous.

Again, that isn't what was being argued. The fact posters keep creating strawmen rather than arguing the actual point - that most young people have never heard of the film version of SLIH - says it all.

I've been teaching in a grad drama program at an Ivy League college for the past 30 years and have definitely seen a difference in the last 10 years. When I mention actors like Fred Astaire, Bette Davis, Grace Kelly, Cary Grant, Clark Gable or Vivien Leigh, for 6 examples, I get a lot of blank stares and furious (and sometimes eager) fiddling with iphones to google the name for an image.

They will recognize names like Marilyn and the 2 Hepburns, but only have a slight idea of what they've done. So I definitely think MOST people under 30 would only have the vaguest recognition of the film of SLIH, beyond perhaps the title. Trust me, I witness this daily.

But then, TBH, if you put photos of Zendaya, Jacob Elordi and Lizzo in front of me I'd be challenged to identify them and certainly couldn't expound on them.

R524, I blame the parents.

The trailer for the York Theatre's Mufti production GOLDEN RAINBOW was posted on YouTube.

When did Max Von Essen become a "daddy"?

The final word . . .

R524–there’s your problem right there …a bunch of culturally illiterate Ivy grad students. Duh

[quote]The trailer for the York Theatre's Mufti production GOLDEN RAINBOW was posted on YouTube.

"For Once in Your Life" is what becomes the freewheeling patio number.

I wish Kelly Bishop had showed up with her feather boa...

[quote]Again, that isn't what was being argued. The fact posters keep creating strawmen rather than arguing the actual point - that most young people have never heard of the film version of SLIH - says it all.

Exactly. I'm glad that I was taught years ago to recognize straw man arguments right off the bat. Once you understand what the phrase means, those arguments are very obvious, and they are the refuge of people who don't have the ability to argue the actual subject(s) under discussion -- usually because their opinions on those subjects are dead wrong.

Does Mufti usually do those glossy videos for their shows?

R521 WOZ was on TBS just a few weeks ago. When was the last time SLIH was on? And yes, a big reason is that it's B&W.

I actually think the story revisions in SLIH could have brought another layer of fun to the musical.

The real problem was the songs. I wanted to see the show before it opened. But then every clip I saw made it less and less appealing. Each song and each number seemed to be duller than the last.

Instead of pastiche and clever lyrics, wouldn't be a novelty just to have good songs?

Omar Shariff is the last show tune that one could listen to over and over. And how many years ago was that?

It's on PBS at least once every 6 weeks on Saturday nights. At least that's what it feels like.

The great Len Cariou turned 84 today.

I sent him an Old Spice gift set and a carton of Luckies.

R534 . . .

“Watch Some Like It Hot with a subscription on Max, rent on Vudu, Amazon Prime Video, Apple TV, or buy on Vudu, Amazon Prime Video, Apple TV.“

Rotten Tomatoes . . .

I notice in the description of the film just above that they somehow never mention the characters struggle for self-actualization, their racial strife, sour youths, and gender dysphoria!

I guess they wasted too much time on the clever funny parts.

r528, thanks for posting the doc on SLIH! Great watch , enjoyed all the talking heads especially IAL Diamond's widow and the ladies who played Sweet Sue's girls, they were all still recognizable. Except for listening to that sleazy old Tony Curtis (his reputation really would have survived nicely had he died young), it was a lot of fun.

[quote] Again, that isn't what was being argued. The fact posters keep creating strawmen rather than arguing the actual point - that most young people have never heard of the film version of SLIH - says it all.

You're hardly in a position to get on a high horse. You're the one who's been shrieking RACISM during the Hello, Dolly conversation. You may want to climb up on that pole and scare the crows away, straw man.

r543 No, I'm not. But thanks for showing you're one of those posters who thinks there can only possibly be one person who doesn't agree with you.

[quote] [R543] No, I'm not. But thanks for showing you're one of those posters who thinks there can only possibly be one person who doesn't agree with you.

I'm not talking about others. I'm talking about you.

r545 Except you're not. Go check my post history before you embarrass yourself further.

[quote]Instead of pastiche and clever lyrics, wouldn't be a novelty just to have good songs?

Pastiche seems to be all that team can write, but sometimes (HAIRSPRAY) the scores that result are a LOT better than others (SLIH, CHARLIE AND THE CHOCOLATE FACTORY).

ANYWAY, anyone seen Golden Rainbow? What happened to the original Mufti program anyway?

I know there were other developmental/Encores style programs in last few decades and am sad they don't tend to last. Maybe a tech millionaire who needs to see "Lolita My Love" needs to invest ?

R548, what do you mean by "the original Mufti program?"

I like the name Mitzi Mufti.

R548, Mufti did "Lolita My Love" back in 2019. I think there's a bootleg video of it, I remember hearing about someone who recorded all of their productions.

Was Mufti the one that did the Jane Powell 70 Girls 70?

R539, I could probably stream Mama's Family on those same services and it would probably get more hits than SLIH.

I teach in a college. None of my students has seen Some Like It Hot. One has seen Singing in the Rain. None have seen Gone with the Wind, Sweet Smell of Success, All About Eve, or A Place in the Sun.

What does it feel like having such idiots for students R554?

R554, That’s pitiful.

[quote]I teach in a college. None of my students has seen Some Like It Hot. One has seen Singing in the Rain. None have seen Gone with the Wind, Sweet Smell of Success, All About Eve, or A Place in the Sun.

I know for a fact that many middle/high schoolers are familiar with SINGIN' IN THE RAIN.

The Broadway adaptation, which is very faithful to the original film, gets licensed annually to high schools across the country and abroad (Canada, UK, Ireland, Australia).

There is even an abridged 1-hour version for middle schoolers called SINGIN' IN THE RAIN, Jr. that also gets put on yearly.

Just this September, King's Academy in Florida put on an excellent production.

In November alone, the show is being mounted in high schools in Utah (Dixie), Iowa (Bishop Garrigan), South Carolina (Paul M. Dorman), and Arizona (Gilbert Christian).

Naturally, the kids watch the original film for inspiration.

In recent years, the musical has gained popularity due to the 2020s AI parallels with the 1920s talkies, when the advent of sound shook up the film industry.

[quote]I teach in a college. None of my students has seen Some Like It Hot. One has seen Singing in the Rain. None have seen Gone with the Wind, Sweet Smell of Success, All About Eve, or A Place in the Sun.

And they are all the poorer for it.

[Italic] So what have we learned? [/Italic]

Young people only care about the very most recent pop culture.

Old people will continuously argue a point until you either want to push them out a window or jump through it yourself.

r554, are you teaching a film course? If so, shouldn't you be assigning at least these films as part of the curriculum?

How many would like to see R559 jump through the nearest open window?

Eldergays get hostile when their indulgent prattle is halted or questioned.

R562, Someone found their thesaurus.

Is that [italic] really [/italic] your comeback, r561, you fungus – riddled shut-in? We enjoy these boards for gossip and playful bitchy – but you bring nothing but toxicity.

Says a post full of toxins…y’all are😵‍💫

I saw KA, Sweeney, and SLIH on successive nights and going in expected to like them in that order. But I pretty much hated KA (bland and twee) and really enjoyed the pep of SLIH. (For Sweeney I was surrounded by screaming Josh fans, which was distracting.)

R564, Calm down, cunt face. The government shutdown was averted, so your monthly freebies will be uninterrupted. You should be reveling!

I think it's about time for a freewheeling toilet number.

I'd like to defenestrate the lot of you.

[quote] I teach in a college. None of my students has seen Some Like It Hot. One has seen Singing in the Rain. None have seen Gone with the Wind, Sweet Smell of Success, All About Eve, or A Place in the Sun.

Okay, but hang on a minute- You're talking about kids anywhere from 18-21. I'm a filmmaker and I can tell you that when I was that age, I hadn't yet seen half of those. I did start exploring older cinema right around that age, but that was also in the late 1980s. Kids today have another 30+ years of cinema to explore that all happened before they were born than some of us did. And it's not surprising that teenagers aren't necessarily interested in watching 60+ year old movies. Some will get there, but some won't. I have a friend who is about a decade younger than me (early 40s) and he's just now exploring movies that came out when he was a kid or a young adult, and some from well before he was born.

It took me until I was 32 to finally see Gone With the Wind (which I liked very much), and I still haven't seen The Sound of Music (which I have zero interest in). Some movies you just don't get around to.

[quote]I think it's about time for a freewheeling toilet number.

Rousing song from the toilet musical

Can't we have ONE gossip thread without two people getting into a fight?

Can't we have anything nice?

It's boring......ignore each other.....we keep trying.

^ Amen. A disagreement is fine, a couple of barbs amusing, but an extended volley of hissing.....Zzzzzzzz.... caftans at dawn, what a value add.

I avoided Miss Carlisle’s pussy

The name of the station is Times Sq-42nd Street

R575, So did I.

[quote]Just this September, King's Academy in Florida put on an excellent production.

Here it is:

I saw a SITR production at LA's Hamilton High around 2000 and it was better than the Broadway revival. I was looking for some YT videos but no luck. Hamilton was one of the best performing arts magnets during those years but they've fallen on hard times, like every public school in LA.

Live Aid: The Musical is on its way:

Anybody go to the flea market today? It seemed bland to me.

R570, THE SOUND OF MUSIC remains one of the most popular films of all time. For any member of the general public never to have seen it would be pretty surprising, but for a "filmmaker" like you not to have seen it is shocking and embarrassing. Even if you expect you would hate the movie, it behooves you to see if only for its place in history. (Sort of like THE BIRTH OF A NATION, though in a very different way.)

[quote]I saw KA, Sweeney, and SLIH on successive nights and going in expected to like them in that order. But I pretty much hated KA (bland and twee) and really enjoyed the pep of SLIH.

If you found KA "bland" and "twee," either you slept through half of the show or you don't understand the meaning of those words.. Or maybe you just have terrible taste, as indicated by the fact that you enjoyed the "pep" of SLIH but apparently weren't bothered by the fact that the story and characters are ridiculous while the score is extremely derivative.

r582 Why would a filmmaker be expected to watch a film just because it's popular? There's nothing particularly special about the direction or production of The Sound of Music.

Ah, should've waited for your post at r583 to pop up - so basically you think only your opinion is the right one, and anyone who has a different one has terrible taste

[quote]There's nothing particularly special about the direction or production of The Sound of Music.

LOL

I'm honestly surprised some of you people can enjoy anything, the way you carry on here.

The opening lyrics of Kimberly Akimbo—

[quote]It's Saturday night at Skater Planet / The Zamboni's on the ice / So we hang around here waiting / All the action's at the mall / But we'd rather be here skating / In New Jersey

—are the very epitome of bland and twee.

Sorry, R584, but I find your comment as closed-minded as R570's attitude. Again, I would think a filmmaker would want to watch one of THE most successful films of all time if only to see if he can discern what made it so extraordinarily popular, and regardless of whether he expects to love or hate the film.

What is it, you cunt face?

R585, not at all, but I'm allowed to express MY opinion that YOUR opinion shows a lack of taste (and a misunderstanding of what the words "bland" and "twee" mean. Interestingly, it seems to me the word "bland" is one that a lot of people throw around when they have no better away to express why they didn't like a show or a performance or whatever.

R588, I disagree with you about those lyrics, and I think it's unfair of you to take them out of context.

r589 Ah the poster who accuses others of bad taste just because they don't share the same opinion is accusing others of being "closed-minded".

Presumably you also think a filmmaker should watch Marvel films, given how popular they are too. Ah, but you probably don't like Marvel, so in that case they can be left out, right?

[quote] Sorry, [R584], but I find your comment as closed-minded as [R570]'s attitude. Again, I would think a filmmaker would want to watch one of THE most successful films of all time if only to see if he can discern what made it so extraordinarily popular, and regardless of whether he expects to love or hate the film.

Perhaps if I were looking to make an old-fashioned musical, I would watch it for research for sure. I've watched movies I would otherwise not be interested in for several reasons- to look at actors, to see how a particular sequence was handled, etc. Not having any desire (or need) to sit through The Sound of Music doesn't make me close-minded at all. I just have no interest in it. I don't care for the music, and the clips I've seen don't engage me. I also don't watch superhero movies because they don't interest me. Your argument thus holds no water, as several of them rank and the most popular and successful of all time.

r591 Once again, there is more than one other poster on this thread, and I've never used the words bland or twee in this thread.

R592, I love that we just made the same point seconds from each other.

Someone I know saw "Sunset Boulevard" on the West End and said that Norma twerks and does a split in this version.

[quote]Presumably you also think a filmmaker should watch Marvel films, given how popular they are too. Ah, but you probably don't like Marvel, so in that case they can be left out, right?

[quote]I also don't watch superhero movies because they don't interest me. Your argument thus holds no water, as several of them rank and the most popular and successful of all time.

I have almost no interest in Marvel movies, so I almost never see them -- but I am not a filmmaker. If I WERE a filmmaker, I would make it a point to see at least some Marvel movies if only to try to understand what it is about them that appeals to so many people. And if I couldn't understand that even after seeing several of those movies, that in itself would be a learning experience that would be extremely valuable to me as a filmmaker.

[quote]Norma twerks and does a split in this version.

I assume this happens on a patio.

[quote]I'm honestly surprised some of you people can enjoy anything, the way you carry on here.

I have discovered that ultraliberals ('woke') are very pessimistic and negative about most everything.

People into theater tend to be ultraliberals.

Hence why this theater thread (and DL in general) tend to be so damn negative.

And why movies and plays have gotten so dark and pessimistic, because Hollywood and Broadway are currently being run by gloomy ultraliberals.

New thread: