Putin is Running Out of Time and Money, part IV

Link to Part I

Link to Part II

Link to Part III

Related/concurrent news: Russian civil war thread: Prigozhin Time

"Russian military attacks Russian military

It’s Russia v Wagner group which is effectively the Russian military"

He needs to ride his caspian pony into the sunset

There's some republican twat showing videos of Muscovites weekend partying to downplay what's happening. If those videos are real Russians are a completely different breed because even if this does come to nothing how do you go out on a Friday night when different parts of your army are shooting at each other less than 12 hours away from you? It's like something from the fall of Rome.

r6 This all kicked off last night, so of course the regular folk still went out to party. It wasn't even in the news, only those following special military channels were aware of the developments. And like you said, they're like a thousand kilometres removed from the capital right now and Putin has hundreds of thousands of Rosgvardia to deal with Prigozhin's ∼20k men, this circus won't ever reach Moscow.

What happened to our tankies and troll farm trolls?

Crying and raging somewhere out of sight, R8

"Russia's weakness is obvious. A full-scale weakness. And the longer #Russia keeps its troops and mercenaries on our soil, the more chaos, pain and problems it will have for itself. This, too, is obvious. #Ukraine can protect Europe from the spread of Russian evil and chaos," Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy commented on recent events."

Dear Tucker and RFK, Jr:

You're both low IQ simps.

Love,

Prigozhin

"Prigozhin Says Putin's Reason for Invading Ukraine Was a Lie"

Oryx has come out of retirement to document equipment losses for the insurgency. So far he's confirmed 7. This is Russians destroying their own!

Now that Putin's speech has made clear what his position is, things will be a lot harder for Wagner.

Videos of some civilians telling Wagner soldiers to surrender. 'Didn't you hear what Putin said?'

Kadyrov makes it clear that he's with Putin

Wagner recruitment ads are being taken off billboards and their offices raided.

Dump trucks filled with sand have been deployed to blockade Moscow. An oil depot in Voronezh has been blown up, possibly to restrict Wagner access to fuel.

Exactly how big is Wagner's army? Are the Russian state troops just outmanned, or are they outweaponed? Why would they surrender so quickly?

Delicious gossip.

"Putin's plane reportedly attempted to enter Kazakhstan air space but was turned away. Kazakhstan President Tokayev commented: "The current events are Russia's internal affair.""

"Ruble - US Dollar exchange rate now 96.20 rubles at Alfa Bank in Russia. It was 84.62 at Friday close before the coup started."

"Interestingly, for the past three months Ukrainian intelligence officials were very confident that all hell was about to break loose in Russia in ways that were dismissed by Western counterparts"

"In modern Russia where there is no official ideology and allegiances are based on money and raw power, not principles, people will choose the side that appears more powerful. Right now, while Prigozhin's stock is rising and Putin's is falling, the elites are silently taking note."

[quote], people will choose the side that appears more powerful. Right now, while Prigozhin's stock is rising and Putin's is falling, the elites are silently taking note.

I really don't agree with this. I still fail to understand how Prigozhin is going to do this or how he's going to get enough people to join him. Most Russians prefer to stay with what they know and don't want a violent civil war. They will likely stay with Putin. It's not as if Prigozhin wants something radically different - he's just another blood-hungry and corrupt oligarch.

[quote]It's not as if Prigozhin wants something radically different - he's just another blood-hungry and corrupt oligarch.

Preferably one named Prigozhin.

[quote]Most Russians prefer to stay with what they know and don't want a violent civil war.

Prigozhin's public line is that he's maintaining the status quo—including the Ukraine invasion—against the current incompetent leadership, so he's giving those Russians a reason to support him. In any case the Russian masses don't have any influence on these political changes.

He's very well-known for wanting conscription and to send men to Ukraine, not something many Russians are a fan of. And he's not promising to improve their lives or tackle corruption, he's part of that machine. So I don't think he has much appeal over Putin who is a known quantity.

Well technically he’s against the corruption that has led to the military being in such shoddy shape and poorly provisioned and let the upper classes of Russia escape military service. He’s not wrong about that. But he’s certainly a monster otherwise.

Tangentially the timing on hosting Modi at the WH was really terrific. I am sure that with Russia collapsing that would have put India in a very uncomfortable position where they might have thought there only option was to strengthen their relationship with China if that high profile dinner and chat hadn’t happened.

Do we think Putin is frantically phoning Xi who is declining to pick up?

Their only option

"For Prigozhin to seize power, a lot of people have to die. For the security elite to get rid of Prigozhin, only Prigozhin has to die."

I think the elite would prefer to stay with what they have rather than chaos and upheaval. So they'll prefer the above is my thinking.

[quote]Do we think Putin is frantically phoning Xi who is declining to pick up?

Sorry, ElderLez, I don't know her!

R14, Prigozhin's group is about 25,000 men, and they are probably pretty well-equipped. Russia has a huge National Guard, it's over 300,000 men, but, as I understand it, they were intended to be located all over the country. I don't know how many can be immediately summoned, nor do I know how combat-ready they are.

R22, Prigozhin is so volatile that it's hard to tell where he really stands on anything. Immediately prior to heading back to Russia, he announced that the whole basis of the invasion of Ukraine was a lie.

[quote] What happened to our tankies and troll farm trolls?

They are still around EL. Check the Best Asses 2023 & the Side-tie Bikini threads.

Shall Iran & Brazil come to Pootie’s rescue?

Go into Crimea NOW, Zelensky.

Hoping the Ukrainians use this to their every advantage!

Russian Apathy and Cynicism:

"@jonnytickle

striking how so many of my Russian friends and acquaintances don’t seem to actually care who wins between MoD and Wagner"

Isn't it ironic that Republicans and MAGAts who have been touting Putin and Trump's superior political and tactical skills (they're geniuses) for years are now finding these two ass clowns at the literal end of their ropes?

MAGAts always throw in with the exact wrong choice, double-down with their mistake, and take their anger over their poor choices out on other people.

It’s particularly challenging for the Russian military because they are all quite drunk right now. Smart move to start a coup on a Friday night.

Video of Russians digging trenches in roads to try to stop Wagner advancing on Moscow.

The Russians are destroying Russian infrastructure as if they are in Ukraine. 🍿

Has Trump truthed his support to his favorite savvy genius pal and maybe even a comforting landing spot in beautiful mar-a-lago yet?

For treacherous bitches like Trump and Putin, it's every man for himself when times get tough, R18.

They're allies in name only. As soon as one gets the stench of failure on him, the other one will desert him in a nanosecond.

R37 I'm struck by how powerful tanks could just drive around those trenches. Already they've done that to blockades made up of coaches or trucks. Russia's military intelligence isn't particularly good,

R28 too funny.

R38- He has quite all day and last night. Spooky, isn't it?

Trump, Tucker Carlson, Flynn, Rand Paul, the House “Freedom Caucus”, Murdoch & son, Koch, & MAGA factions, must currently be quite stressed.

Does Jill Stein have a fainting couch?

[quote] I'm struck by how powerful tanks could just drive around those trenches

and into minefields

R45 good point but I was thinking that the opposite lane would be an easier and more clear a target. However, we don't know if they dug trenches or mined there after that video was taken.

I'm still popping popcorn.

Putin's plane disappeared from radar. Did it crash?

Please note that r45 is a pro-Russia troll.

Civilians are fleeing Rostov, videos of huge crowds at the train stations.

BBC breaking that Lubeshenko negotiated a de-escalation. Wagner's standing down

Putin has his adversaries and critics poisoned or tossed from atop buildings, off balconies, and high store windows. Others are imprisoned on false charges. He created numerous and brutal war crimes in Syria, Chechnya, and Ukraine. He paid Taliban fighters who killed U.S. military personnel.

He deserves whatever grief he receives. I want to see him removed from office and delivered to The Hague, or Kiev, or face demise before anti-Putin partisans. He is an extreme sociopath who has ruthlessly engaged in land-grabbing.

Will it be Texas or Florida that hosts an exiled Putin?

He should be executed for this alone:

Russia's Prigozhin admits links to what U.S. says was election-meddling troll farm. - Yevgeny Prigozhin, the head of Russia's Wagner mercenary group, said on Tuesday that he founded and financed and the Internet Research Agency, a company Washington says is a "troll farm" which meddled in the 2016 U.S. presidential election.

Prigozhin, an ally of Russian President Vladimir Putin, spent years operating on behalf of the Kremlin in the shadows, but has emerged in recent months as one of the most high profile figures connected with Russia's invasion of Ukraine.

He has previously admitted interfering in U.S. elections, but his statement on Tuesday appears to go further than before in outlining his specific links to the St. Petersburg-based Internet Research Agency (IRA).

"I was never just the financier of the Internet Research Agency. I thought it up, I created it, I managed it for a long time," Prigozhin said in a post shared on social media by the press service of his Concord catering group.

"It was created to protect the Russian information space from the West's boorish and aggressive anti-Russian propaganda," Prigozhin said.

Prigozhin was first sanctioned by the United States over his links to the Internet Research Agency in 2018 and charged with conspiracy to defraud the United States.

Continued at link:

Is Prigozhin just a Russified spelling of Petrossian?

R51, this just doesn't make sense. It's suicide for Prigozihn to turn back trusting in some negotiated deal. Putin will eliminate him ASAP, regardless of what agreement they arrange.

R56, Prigozhin must know that. Everyone involved in this is someone you would never trust to do anything.

So that's just it? What, are they going to share a beer and some laughs over the whole thing? Wtah.

Putin is channeling Mithridates. And that makes him dangerous.

Will Trump claim he negotiated a truce between Prigozhin & Putin?

I let Lukashenko help a little, R60!

This is Dan from Ukraine. He is said they are trying to divide them in order to start a civil war. He says the same thing is happening now here and warned not to fall for it, don't allow them to divide us. Then I read a comment from a women who posted that there is increased military activity here in the US. Her son who is in the military warned her to be careful now. Has anyone else seen or heard anything like that? .

There is a large buildup in the Pacific since the military is convinced China is preparing for war. The military is less concerned with Russia at this time.

R63- Thank you for the information. How many here believe what happened today was real and how many believe it was staged? ( Why it would be staged idk. )

Well, it doesn't make sense for Putin to stage it because he looks weaker than ever. Why did Lukashenko have to do the negotiating?

And where the hell is Shoigu? Not a peep out of him for all this time?

Between Putin and Prigozhin is a choice between the devil you know and the devil you don't for most Russians, I'm quite certain. Both are "strongmen", meaning they operate by getting the loyalty of the military or a militia by passing out favors and bribes and then calling in those favors to try to eliminate opposition. It's not exactly a win for Russia if Putin is ousted and replaced by Prigozhin, because he would rule in a very similar way. With no meaningful media, and all opposition parties squelched or imprisoned in Russia, the average citizen must feel completely helpless to effect change. Just pawns in these struggles against totalitarian figures.

Boys, boys, don't make me come up there!

America, look to Russia for your future controlled by Koch and Musk.

Controlled by Koch, Musk and the Republicans.

Knew it. Prigozhin had no chance if nobody much was joining his 'March for Justice' and no top generals or organizations were supporting him. I'm a little surprised a deal was done after Putin's speech but it makes sense to avoid futile damage on both sides and if he has to leave for Belarus, that's like exile.

And Wagner is over.

"Kremlin spox Dmitry Peskov:

– charges dropped against Prigozhin, who will leave Russia for Belarus

– Wagner fighters who didn't take part in the uprising will sign contracts with the MOD

– Wagner fighters who did take part not charged

– No word on potential MOD leadership changes"

I really believe that this was a ruse for Prigozhin to remove himself from the war. He knew he risked being tossed out of a window if he resigned, so now he at least gets to live out his life. Of course, that’s not to say that Putin won’t try to off him.

[quote]I really believe that this was a ruse for Prigozhin to remove himself from the war. He knew he risked being tossed out of a window if he resigned, so now he at least gets to live out his life. Of course, that’s not to say that Putin won’t try to off him.

Oh honey, no. Why do you have to try to make everything so unnecessarily complicated and a conspiracy when sometimes things are as they look. Prigozhin was already pretty much being removed from the war. There was no risk. He could have stepped down and retired to his activities in Africa or somewhere with his money with no issue. He was angry and he took a big risk by doing this. It did not work and now he is in exile.

Isn't Belarus just a puppet state of Putin's? How safe is Prigozhin going to be and for long with Putin's flunkies and lackeys swarming around? I'd sleep with one eye open.

[quote]I'd sleep with one eye open.

I would too but Prigozhin had no realistic choice. His ~10k men (I don't buy the 25k figure) wasn't going to do this without significant amounts of people defecting to him and he's just not popular or appealing. He's a corrupt oligarch who wants to send masses of Russian men to die in Ukraine. What's appealing about that compared to Putin?

Wrong man for this and the hubris is quite something but I like that he has done quite a bit of damage to Putin's reputation - and destroyed six Russian helicopters in the process!

Russia is going down. They are trying 16th century domination strategies. Not gonna fly into today's connected wireless. He had no idea what to do.

I feel cheated, I wanted heads on pikes.

Just wait, R76.

Is that ... all there is?

It's already been suggested that the US has paid Prigorzhin $6 billion for this.

Because...of course.

R6

Is it any different than Americans partying with guns in the hands of millions of citizens?

[quote] It's already been suggested that the US has paid Prigorzhin $6 billion for this.

I was thinking in the hundred million dollar range. If he scored over a billion he really suckered Joe

The guarantee that Prigozhin will be able to leave for Belarus is Putin's word, the Kremlin said.

He's not that stupid, is he? He probably had a contingency plan and provisions for an escape.

I admit I'm naive in the ways of wackadoo conspiracy theories, but can R79 and R82 really be suggesting that the US paid an even crazier, more militaristic warlord to topple a crazy, militaristic warlord? Or are they suggesting the US paid him to step back? Please help me out here.

So are the Wagner forces now going to trek back into Ukraine and start shooting 'em up again, or are they abandoning the Russians in Ukraine? Seems to me a really important question.

I can’t quite wrap my head around Lukashenko brokering this deal. I mean on the one hand he’s Putin’s close ally, but yet Putin has been threatening to annex Belarus which might mean deposing him. And Russia is allegedly moving to Nukes to Belarus, but so far Belarus has not sent its troops to Ukraine. From the outside it almost looks like a frenemies situation. What happens if the Wagner groups joins with the Belarus army?

The silver lining is how Prigozhin was able to make bunker hiding, scaredy-ass Putin FLEE from Moscow like the pussy bitch he really is in front of the oligarchs, Big Daddy China, and the entirety of the world.

No matter what happens to that ugly goblin Prigozhin in the future and how much longer that dwarf Putin clings to the rotting throne of Russia, Prigozhin showed The House of Poots' is in DISARRAY.

[quote]So are the Wagner forces now going to trek back into Ukraine and start shooting 'em up again, or are they abandoning the Russians in Ukraine? Seems to me a really important question.

Supposedly, those who didn't participate in the mutiny are going to sign contracts with the Russian MoD (this was the thing that allegedly set Prigozhin off, he didn't want to give up control). The ones who did participate are given immunity and I guess they will go to Africa.

Either way, you'd think Putin's forces in Ukraine will be weakened. There won't be as many, and those who sign with the MoD won't be as well organised or resourced, that having been a key issue in their protest. Go Zelensky!

Regarding R88's observations, commentators were saying on the news tonight that the situation might well encourage someone high up the tree to assassinate Putin, not having thought it possible before.

High up the tree in. Russia or China. The wheat harvest fell short in China this year. They need the bread basket back on line.

"Putin could not control a mercenary force that he created & run by his buddy. He had to rely on Lukashenko of all people to cut a deal with a guy he called just hours ago a traitor. These are signs of real weakness, not strength."

"Putin could not control a mercenary force that he created & run by his buddy. He had to rely on Lukashenko of all people to cut a deal with a guy he called just hours ago a traitor. These are signs of real weakness, not strength."

It's not clear to me what exactly is going to happen to the Wagner troops that accompanied Prigozihn in the mutiny. According to the announced part of the deal, the Wagnerites that didn't march on Moscow will be "free" to sign a contract with the MOD, so presumably they'll be added to existing units in Southern Ukraine, but where do the others go? Are they going to go to Belarus and still be commanded by Prigozhin? If so, they've got a long trek ahead going around the long way to the North.

Also, it's been reported that many Wagnerites are not happy that Prigozhin abandonded the rebellion, they bought the line they were going to topple the military leadership. They feel they were misled. They are doubly-angry about the prospect of being co-opted into the regular army, who they deem as being incompetent and led by fools. This is not a recipe for stability.

[quote] It's already been suggested that the US has paid Prigorzhin $6 billion for this.

Yes R79, a cunning plot carried out by dementia-addled Joe Biden and all to distract from Hunter Biden’s crime spree!

As per Mykhailo Podolyak. Adviser to the Head of the Office of President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelenskyy:

"What new things do we now know about the state called "RF"? 1. There is no military infrastructure inside Russia. There are no combat-ready units. 2. The Rosgvardiya and the FSB are incapacitated and unprepared for real large-scale protests. 3. The people absolutely does not support the government, will not come out to support it and on the contrary will welcome any alternative force. 4. Putin's elite are well aware of the weakness of the "vertical" and are ready to flee on the jets at any moment. 5. There are not and will not be capable negotiators in the interests of the elites. 6. In the case of the slightest crisis, Putin disappears at lightning speed, refusing to take responsibility and make decisions... And most importantly: since the weakness of Russia is obvious to many, attempts to take over power will only increase. Chaotization and anarchization in Russia will also increase. The only optimal scenario that would guarantee predictability for all is a clear transit of power in Russia, namely the obligatory replacement of Putin's elite. But this is only possible if the military potential of Russia in the occupied territories is quickly reduced to zero..."

As per Mykhailo Podolyak. Adviser to the Head of the Office of President of Ukraine Volodymyr Zelenskyy:

"The tragicomedy of recent days eloquently explains to the leaders of other countries why Ukraine does not see it possible to negotiate with Putin's Russia today. A simple question. Who can we talk to about anything if the main subject literally has power slipping out of his hands like sand between his fingers, and everyone is wiping their feet on the strategic military command? The days of this gang are numbered, there is no master in the house. The situation inside Russia is uncontrollable, the flimsy structure is held together by inertia on a wing and a prayer. Meanwhile, forecasters predict new gusts of wind..."

Interesting take:

"Playing the scenarios here, and the only one that makes sense — assuming this deal is indeed legitimate — is that Prigo had allies in very high places and Putin had no choice. But even then, how does Putin survive under those circumstances. He’s a hostage, not a tsar.

Thank you for posting that r96/97.

[QUOTE]Chaotization and anarchization in Russia will also increase.

I love how they're throwing Putin's word right back in his face with a twist: the real life consequences of his pursuit of the "denazification" of Ukraine.

It reminds me how good their messaging and PR has been since the start of the war. Zelensky's messages during and at the end of the insurrection were nothing short of eloquent. Probably written by Mykhailo Podolyak.

What's the betting China is looking at this and seeing how EASY it would be to take land in eastern Russia that used to be part of China? Part of me thinks they're too cautious for that though.

Various possible scenarios now.

R101 I just don't agree with a lot of that but the guy is in Ukraine's government so he has to push these lines for morale.

Russians didn't actively support anyone and that's a bit depressing. They are cynical, they shrug their shoulders unless it directly affects them. It would take a special person to get past that. So I think that's negative to thinking that soldiers and officials will rebel - at least in the near future. (I could be wrong of course.)

Kadyrov is loyal. Prigozhin has been neutralized for now. So what clans will be warring against each other now? Many of the elite are just interested in keeping their power and money.

Japan still wants the Kuril Islands back.

From April, ‘23, XI Jingping supports Russia over Kuril Islands dispute. He reversed Mao’s policy on the matter.

R104, probably because Xi wants the islands once China takes over Siberia.

R104 Natasha?

Prigozhin might be done with the armed coup but he is still spilling the tea!

"Interesting. In his latest audio message, Prigozhin casually says “When we worked in Africa and Ukraine, when we messed up in America, they were fine with us paying cash…”.

I wonder what he means by “messing up in America” & whom he paid cash there.

R107, he’s referring to interference in the 2016 election. His involvement was known, or at least suspected.

"Wagner’s Aborted Mutiny Leaves No Winners in Russia

The authority of the Russian state has sustained lasting damage, inviting future challenges

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TEXT SUBSCRIBE SIGN IN Wagner’s Aborted Mutiny Leaves No Winners in Russia The authority of the Russian state has sustained lasting damage, inviting future challenges

The Russian Southern Military District headquarters in Rostov on Sunday, a day after it was seized by Wagner forces. NIKOLAI TRISHIN/ZUMA PRESS By Yaroslav TrofimovFollow June 25, 2023 6:26 am ET

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TEXT Shaken by the Wagner mutiny, Russia began addressing the damage of Saturday’s bout of violence as its citizens tried to understand how these events will affect President Vladimir Putin’s regime, which has shown itself so unexpectedly vulnerable.

The whereabouts of Wagner owner Yevgeny Prigozhin were unclear on Sunday, and neither he nor Putin made public remarks about the conditions under which the rebellion ended. The Russian minister of defense and the head of Russia’s armed forces also remained out of sight.

One widely shared conclusion in Russia, however, was that none of the key players in the power struggle—beginning when Prigozhin seized the southern city of Rostov Saturday—has been strengthened by the ordeal that brought the country to the edge of civil war.

Putin, who earlier in the day demanded his security forces crush what he described as a treasonous mutiny, ordered amnesties for Prigozhin and his men by the evening, after Belarus President Alexander Lukashenko negotiated a face-saving compromise.

I assume he's talking about his troll farm - he probably means something more like "meddled" or "made a mess"

Prigozhin famously setup and ran “The Internet Research Agency”, one of the mega troll farms that interfered in the 2020 election. He’s a wanted man in the US for it. He was tasked by Putin to do this.

"...Prigozhin, who showed Wagner’s strength by marching two-thirds of the way toward Moscow with little opposition, ended up aborting the rebellion and accepting, at least for now, exile in Belarus. The Russian army and security forces, meanwhile, displayed little glory as their troops proved reluctant, if not outright afraid, to try stopping Wagner. Flying Russian flags, large Wagner columns on Sunday were driving south on the Moscow-Rostov highway.

“The entire system has lost yesterday, including Prigozhin, who is also part of the system,” said Andrei Kolesnikov, a senior fellow at the Carnegie Endowment who was in Moscow on Saturday. As for Putin, he added, “it turned out that the czar is not a real czar because he couldn’t control a man from his own system who’s supposed to be under his full control.”

As a result, the authority and self-image of the Russian state has sustained lasting damage, likely fueling future challenges to its writ regardless of what happens to Prigozhin. That is especially so as the war in Ukraine, which helped precipitate the Wagner mutiny, continues raging with no end in sight, causing mounting casualties on both sides.

The whereabouts of Wagner owner Yevgeny Prigozhin were unclear on Sunday, and neither he nor Putin made public remarks about the conditions under which the rebellion ended. The Russian minister of defense and the head of Russia’s armed forces also remained out of sight.

One widely shared conclusion in Russia, however, was that none of the key players in the power struggle—beginning when Prigozhin seized the southern city of Rostov Saturday—has been strengthened by the ordeal that brought the country to the edge of civil war.

Putin, who earlier in the day demanded his security forces crush what he described as a treasonous mutiny, ordered amnesties for Prigozhin and his men by the evening, after Belarus President Alexander Lukashenko negotiated a face-saving compromise.

Yevgeny Prigozhin, the head of the Wagner paramilitary group, marched toward Moscow and then pulled back his troops, all within 24 hours. He agreed to leave Russia after a deal was brokered between him and Russian President Vladimir Putin.

Wagner’s forces Saturday shot down six Russian helicopters and an IL-22 airborne command-center plane, killing 13 airmen, according to Russian military analysts—deaths that will not be easily forgotten, particularly inside the Russian air force, which is commanded by Prigozhin’s onetime ally Gen. Sergei Surovikin. Damage included bridges and roads destroyed by authorities that aimed to stop Wagner’s march and a jet-fuel depot that was hit and burned down in the city of Voronezh."

"Prigozhin late Saturday night left the headquarters of the Southern Military District in Rostov, to an unknown destination. Disconcertingly for Putin, many locals cheered Wagner’s troops as they withdrew from the city—and jeered the regular police that reappeared on Rostov’s streets after hiding for a day.

In Moscow, too, feelings about Prigozhin were mixed at best on Saturday. “There was a moment of total loss of control. Moscow was already awaiting him, the city froze in expectation that some groups of people would enter,” Kolesnikov said. “And people were not afraid. Putin was afraid of him, but not the country’s population.”

A volatile personality and a former inmate of Soviet prisons, Prigozhin isn’t necessarily the favorite alternative for many Russians, particularly the Moscow elites. That is especially so because Wagner’s ranks include thousands of violent criminals recruited in Russian prison camps.

Yet, the very fact that there was so little spontaneous rallying for the Russian president on Saturday, in Rostov or in Moscow, showed the pent-up hunger for change after 23 years of Putin’s rule, many Russian analysts noted.

As of Sunday morning, Wagner remained in charge of the Millerovo military airfield in southern Russia, according to Russian reports. It wasn’t clear when and how Prigozhin will leave for Belarus, and how many of his men will follow suit.

Fighters loyal to Chechen warlord Ramzan Kadyrov, who has had his own feud with Prigozhin, deployed to the outskirts of Moscow and erected roadblocks—once Wagner had turned around its columns.

Prigozhin, so far, hasn’t spoken in public about leaving Russia, saying only that he had agreed to Lukashenko’s request to cease the march on Moscow in order to avoid bloodshed. Putin, too, hasn’t made any public remarks since accusing Prigozhin of treason on Saturday morning."

"Russia’s minister of defense, Sergei Shoigu, whose removal was Prigozhin’s key demand, hasn’t been seen since before the mutiny. Neither has the chief of general staff, Gen. Valery Gerasimov. Shoigu maintained silence on Sunday, even as Russian social media lit up with unconfirmed rumors of his likely replacement in coming days.

“The entire world has seen that Russia is on the brink of the most acute political crisis,” Sergei Markov, a former Putin adviser and a political analyst in Moscow, said on Telegram. “Yes, the putsch failed now. But putsches have fundamental reasons. And if the reasons remain, a putsch will happen again. And it could be successful.”"

[quote] many Russian analysts noted.

Since the days of the Comintern down to the present, "Russian analysts" have been a bad joke. The last four days being just the latest example.. Generations of credulity only briefly interrupted in the Reagan years over the vociferous objections of the "experts".

The exact quote is certainly very stupid:

[quote]Yet, the very fact that there was so little spontaneous rallying for the Russian president on Saturday, in Rostov or in Moscow, showed the pent-up hunger for change after 23 years of Putin’s rule, many Russian analysts noted.

I strongly disagree with that statement - what it was was simply indifference and cynicism. There's no 'pent-up hunger for change'.

So now that this nasty business has been settled, Trump can expect the Russian rubles to continue to flow into his campaign war chests, and Jordan, Boebert, Greene, et al can continue to receive their regular monthly "gratuities" on time??????

[quote] So now that this nasty business has been settled

I don't think any nasty business has been settled. For Russia, it's only just beginning.

A few decades back I was on a plane sitting next to an American businessman from out west, who frequently traveled to Russia to buy handmade fishing lures/flies. He conveyed the guy who made them was very gifted and his product was superior. He said on his last visit to purchase the lures, he mistakenly told the lure maker the price he sold each lure in the U. S. The Russian got angry and immediately destroyed the new batch of lures he was about to sell the American businessman. He said, paraphrasing, “you sell my lures for ten dollars each, you give me ten dollars each and that includes what I sold you previously”. Obviously, this Russian didn’t grasp the concept of capitalism at the time.

For centuries, Russians have embraced authoritarianism. They expect their dictators to be benevolent; but that rarely happens. Democracy is not a concept they universally understand or have experienced in any sustained way. I doubt Russians, particularly the older ones, have a yearning for representative government beyond a single party system with control from the top down. An authoritarian leader who screws-up or becomes extensively unpopular, the solution is to have the bureaucracy install a new authoritarian figure and create staged elections, fooling the populace that they have a real say.

Here's an idea: let's send them Trump and the "Freedom" Caucas to take over for Putin.

^the Ginni Thomas will be a prominent oligarch.

Prigozin has been silent the last 24+ hours. His Wagner media is not saying anything. Was he ambushed somewhere on the road to Belarus? Was his family threatened? Something is amiss or deceptive.

Has Putin even left his bunker yet?

The interests on Twitter that are against funding Ukraine’s defense against Putin’s aggression, are certainly not fond of Lindsey Graham.

MAGAt tears over Putin's humiliation have been hilarious.

The GQP'S new motto, everybody!

"There's a little Hitler in EVERYONE (which is what we're hoping when we refuses you contraception and abortion)!"

"After Wagner withdrew from Rostov-on-Don, protestors came out against the police, chanting "shame on you" and waving Wagner flags. Russians are now even more united in their view that the state is corrupt, cowardly, and inept."

[quote]The interests on Twitter that are against funding Ukraine’s defense against Putin’s aggression, are certainly not fond of Lindsey Graham.

I think the complaint is more about his inefficient douching.

[quote]"After Wagner withdrew from Rostov-on-Don, protestors came out against the police, chanting "shame on you" and waving Wagner flags. Russians are now even more united in their view that the state is corrupt, cowardly, and inept."

How the fuck do you get to that from cheering on *Prigozhin*? That's just a terrible statement on so many levels. Those people are minority of extreme right-wingers.

And this is like highlighting the few protesters against the war and claiming they represent most Russians. They don't.

Let's see how Rostov residents, particularly the females, feel about their "guests" once they realize Prigozhin has abandoned his mercenary and recently released violent criminal contractors behind and left them to their own devices right in their city and suburbs.

Unlike most of the Ukraine war hawks, Graham. isn't a hypocrite. He was always an unapologetic neocon.

CNN — In its early phases, Ukraine’s counteroffensive is having less success and Russian forces are showing more competence than western assessments expected, two western officials and a senior US military official tell CNN.

The counteroffensive is “not meeting expectations on any front,” one of the officials said.

According to the Western assessments, Russian lines of defense have been proving well-fortified, making it difficult for Ukrainian forces to breach them. In addition, Russian forces have had success bogging down Ukrainian armor with missile attacks and mines and have been deploying air power more effectively.

Ukrainian forces are proving “vulnerable” to minefields and Russian forces “competent” in their defense, one of the Western officials said.

Ultimately, the counteroffensive is proving a “tough drive” for Ukraine and Russia, one of the Western official said, with both sides incurring heavy losses.

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky admitted Wednesday that progress had been “slower than desired.”

"Russia finished preparations for the act of terror on Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant" - head of @DI_Ukraine, Kyrylo Budanov.

According to Budanov, the cooling pond and 4 out of 6 station's energy blocks have been mined by Russian military.

Russia might create a zone of nuclear catastrophe to prevent advancing of Ukrainian troops, in case it suffers losses on left bank of Dnipro river or attacks the plant as a preventive measure to freeze the frontlines in their current state - Budanov.

He added that the situation has never been as serious as it is now.

[quote] Russia might create a zone of nuclear catastrophe

The entire rest of the world really needs to unite and destroy CUNT-Russia for threatening and greatly inconveniencing the rest of us. Fuck Russia.

The twitter post at r133 contained a joke now being told by the Russians.

[quote] "All that we found out today is that if, God forbid, NATO attacks us, the most we'll be able to do is to dig out the asphalt and call Lukashenko"

I'm still wondering if NATO would respond or not. I know that Miss Lindzebelle had strong words which is appreciated but can he even make that call?

I've been wondering whether Putin agreed to remove Shoigu and Gerasimov as part of the deal with Prigozhin to stand down but Russia's defence ministry has just published a video of Shoigu inspecting a command centre and being briefed on the war so it looks like not.

The mining of the Zaporizhzhia power plant has me seriously spooked. This is on another scale than just blowing a large dam (bad as that was).

R122's comments concern me too. Famous spy move, to double-cross someone after the deal has been announced.

But of course, if that did happen, next time there would be no stopping the insurgency.

Russian paper Kommersant says that as of this morning, Yevgeny Prigozhin remains under investigation for inciting an armed mutiny despite Kremlin spokesman Dmitry Peskov saying late on Saturday that the charges against him would be dropped.

So he has to stay in exile?

[quote]Yevgeny Prigozhin remains under investigation for inciting an armed mutiny

Window-dressing for the rubes, R140. Putin, the emperor, has been shown to have no clothes and he's furious about it.

Has Putin left his bunker, yet? China wants a word with him.

"Today’s Russian newspapers on Prigozhin’s armed uprising: “Russia displayed its vulnerability, to the whole world & to itself.”

“The events of 24 June will have long term consequences for the country…” #ReadingRussia"

"Putin humiliated by Wagner coup with '39 pilots and crew' lost in worst day for air force

The Russian president faced pressure after losing a number of aircraft to the mercenary group, who remain a threat to Putin's regime"

^^ Please don't use Express links - it's a terrible newspaper and not a good source (even if that story is correct, it'd be better to find a more reliable source).

Sergei Lavrov says that Wagner activities will carry on in Africa, plus Wagner recruitment offices in Russia have been re-opened.

Prigozhin has spoken out for the first time since leaving Russia. He said, "We didn't march to overthrow Russia's leadership. The aim of the march was to avoid destruction of Wagner and to hold to account the officials who through their unprofessional actions have committed a massive number of errors". He says Wagner regrets "they had to hit Russian aviation" and they turned around "to avoid spilling blood of Russian soldiers."

He further stated that he has No Remorse for Organizing the Rebellion.

Gossipy article about Shoigu. My fav bit is this:

"There were also claims that Yelena Shebunova, a woman alleged to have intimate ties to Shoigu, had earned £80 million from military contracts. A former flight attendant with the emergency situations ministry, she is said to own an £18 million property near Moscow.

More recently, Shoigu has come under fire over revelations that Danila Shebunov, his son with Shebunova, fled to a Turkish holiday resort days before Putin announced mobilisation in September. Shebunov, 22, is a pop singer who goes by the stage name Sheba. His relationship to Shoigu was not public knowledge until this month."

Bad news - the troll farm is back up and running too:

"St. Petersburg publication Rotonda reports that the Wagner center housing Prigozhin’s infamous Internet “troll factory” has also resumed operations. Computers confiscated during searches of the property are now being returned."

Posted this in the "Russian military invades Russian military" thread so might as well here

[QUOTE]Anyone paying attention in DC? #Mexico has been accrediting new Russian diplomats at levels that the depth and breadth of bilateral ties between MexCity and Moscow simply do not justify. 36 newly-accredited "diplomats" since the start of the UKR invasion👇🏽

[quote]Anyone paying attention in DC? #Mexico has been accrediting new Russian diplomats at levels that the depth and breadth of bilateral ties between MexCity and Moscow simply do not justify. 36 newly-accredited "diplomats" since the start of the UKR invasion👇🏽

Yawn.

Pootie gave another speech to the nation but with nothing much new. Ranted angrily some more about the mutiny, repeated that they can sign up to the MoD or go to Belarus. Did not mention Prigozhin by name again (seems like cowardice - why didn't he talk to Prigozhin himself which could have have prevented the mutiny even). Praised Lukashenko. I've linked to a subtitled video but it's pretty boring.

Then a video of him meeting top officials - including Shoigu - was released.

It must be deflating for Putin to realize that no one in the entire country, apparently, cares whether he lives or dies. Where was the spontaneous outpouring of support? Where was the patriotism? Nowhere. Russians were just standing around waiting to see what would happen.

America's MAGAdonians were weeping and tweeting their support for Poots. They really ought to pack up and haul ass over to Russia where they can have their MACHO MACHO MAN dictator, where gays are punished with prison terms, and where you're LOCKED UP forever if you question Dear Leader.

It would be heaven on earth for those choads!

Tucker Carlson praises and defends Putin obsessively. However, you don’t see him packing and moving to Russia, or even making an extended visit there. Do you?

"@mitchellreports

Senate Intel Chair tells me Prigozhin is in Minsk, Belarus, reportedly in a hotel without windows. If those reports true, smart move considering the number of Putin opponents who have somehow “fallen” from windows…"

If anyone's wondering what hotel that could be -

"@KyivPost

Belarusian media reported that #Wagner PMC chief Yevgeny #Prigozhin was seen at the Green City Hotel in Minsk."

Apparently it's actually more 'windows that don't open'.

Thoughts?

"BREAKING: Russian authorities have dropped charges against mercenary chief Yevgeny Prigozhin and others involved in the armed rebellion."

[quote] Russian authorities have dropped charges

The "Russian experts" strike out again

[quote]"BREAKING: Russian authorities have dropped charges against mercenary chief Yevgeny Prigozhin and others involved in the armed rebellion."

Huh? This was part of the agreement this past weekend.

It was from an updated AP article from about an hour ago, R160.

Yeah, and it reports something we've known since Saturday.

Actually no, R162. There was a lot of conflicting information put out by various Russian sources since the original announcement of amnesty on Saturday. The FSB launched an "investigation" of the mutiny, which a lot of people expected would give Putin cover to arrest Prigozhin anyway. This new announcement is about the conclusion of the FSB "investigation"

Perhaps you should take it up with AP, then? A strongly worded letter!

I don't think Putin has ever admitted that Wagner is funded by the state before (he created Wagner for plausible deniability that way). If the Hague ever gets to him for financing war crimes, they'll be able to use this admission:

"Putin says Wagner was entirely financed by the Russian state through the MOD and the state budget.

From May 2022 to May 2023, the state paid Wagner 86 billion rubles and Prigozhin's catering company earned a further 80 billion, Putin says."

DecodïngTrolls @DecodingTrolls ⚡️Wanger - World's First Full Spectrum Genocide as a Service (GaaS) Firm.

Ruschian gas may be sanctioned, but Wanger GaaS is going at full steam. Demand for Genocide as a Service has never been higher globally. And Wanger is at the forefront of exciting innovative opportunities in projecting stealth genocide as a service globally.

Clue is in our name - Wanger. We're named for German Nazis favourite composer Wanger BECAUSE Wanger was German Nazis favourite composer.

We feature regularly on the front pages of the world's premiere media - they advertise our Genocide as a Service every time our chief Chef Saucerer's words are used to populate some story about our most successful Genocide as a Service operation yet: Ukraine.

Wanger started in Russia occupied Luhansk in 2014 where we killed and tortured anyone who opposed Ruschist occupation. Continued at link:

"Russian troops withdraw from Moscow after mercenary revolt ends"

A Russian missile strike tore into a popular pizza restaurant at dinnertime in the eastern Ukrainian city of Kramatorsk on Tuesday, killing at least four people and injuring more than 40 others, according to Ukrainian officials.

Trouble in paradise, already?

"Listening to Lukashenka is a bit surreal. He is gloating about how he saved Putin. The power dynamic seems to be shifting. Lukashenka seems emboldened. Putin lost face with strongmen and likely his own elites."

Another 30 Bradley Infantry Fighting Vehicles and 25 Stryker Armored Personnel Carriers will be headed to Ukraine as part of the Pentagon’s latest tranche of aid, valued at up to $500 million. To date, Ukraine has seen 10 of 109 Bradley variants already delivered destroyed, two damaged, and another 12 damaged and abandoned, according to the latest figures from the Oryx open source intelligence tracking group. That figure could be higher, because Oryx only tabulates equipment it can visually verify.

"During its summer campaign, Ukraine has already liberated approximately 300 km² of its territory. That translates to an area approximately the size of Athens, Ga

[quote]Apparently it's actually more 'windows that don't open'.

Yet.

[quote]He is gloating about how he saved Putin. The power dynamic seems to be shifting. Lukashenka seems emboldened.

Oh dear. We've all read THAT book before.

I guess Putin will have to come out of the bunker for a little while to sort out who is "loyal" and who is "disloyal". SAD!

As per the NYTimes:

""A senior Russian general [Surovikin] had advance knowledge of Yevgeny Prigozhin's plans to rebel against Russia's military leadership, according to U.S. officials ...there are signs that other Russian generals may have also supported Prigozhin's attempt""

Pootie needs to re-make his image; withdraw from all of Ukraine, trans to Irina, become an humanitarian, and find a hot Boris to marry.

So what’s the deal on the nukes in Belarus that are arriving in July? We know that Pootie can threaten all he wants, but he can’t actually unilaterally launch any nuclear weapons because the Soviets had the sense to build a three person mandatory approval protocol in to the system. Does that three person mandate come with? Or is the move an opportunity to override the controls? And will control be under Lukashenko?

Because the way I see it, come July Belarus is going to have an intact military; a ruthless, but competent, military leader with his own loyal troops and potentially launchable nuclear weapons. And I don’t see the West objecting if he wants to make a deal - he gets European Russia and sanctions dropped in exchange for restoring Ukraine’s territorial integrity and a non-aggression pact.

"And it would be right for Russia to ask for Ukraine's membership in NATO now.

Because NATO members defend themselves, not attack.

NATO states defend nations, not rush into their neighbors to destroy their future.

Russia, as the aggressor, knows this better than anyone else, a Russia that is now entering an era of rebellion and systemic weakness, is more than anyone interested in security on its internationally recognized borders.

Therefore, Russia is also interested in Ukraine being in NATO" - .@ZelenskyyUa

[quote] Because NATO members defend themselves, not attack. NATO states defend nations, not rush into their neighbors to destroy their future.

Yeah right.

[quote]So what’s the deal on the nukes in Belarus that are arriving in July?

There aren't going to be launchable nukes in Belarus. You shouldn't believe everything the Russians say. They are saying this for a reason as well - because 'nukes!' is the one thing that seems to put the fear into people consistently.

Baza: Vice President of Loko-Bank dies after falling out of apartment window.

A woman this time! 28-year-old Kristina Baikova.

Baikova fell out of the window of an apartment on Khodynsky Boulevard on the evening of June 23. She died on the spot from her injuries.

"@thebell_io is reporting that Prigozhin's "troll farm" is about to be under new management soon. (Yuri Kovalchuk, one of Putin's buddies from the Ozero Cooperative and already under heavy sanctions, will apparently be taking over.)"

78% of Ukrainians have relatives or friends who have died or been wounded in the war.

That’s 4 out of 5.

Re: R181

Horrifying. Russians are a disgusting people

If true, this is really scaring.-

Russia is decreasing the number of personnel at Zaporizhzhia NPP - Ukrainian intelligence @DI_Ukraine

Reportedly, Russian personnel is instructed to leave the plant by 5th July, and the number of military on the plant and in temporarily occupied Enerhodar is decreasing as well.

Russia has announced in the UN Security Council they are not going to blow up the NPP - the same people who swore they would not invade Ukraine.

The situation is a global threat. And it is getting increasingly more dangerous. Terrorist state Russia is holding Ukraine and the whole world hostage.

If they blow up that plant I hope that entire country is nuked flat.

This could be Ukraine's Chernobyl !

R183, yes, that is a worrying development. Any time Russia says it won't do something, it does it. I hope all of the NATO countries are working their back-channels to make it clear that blowing this plant would mean the immediate end of Russia.

The depressing thing is that I have a bad feeling that NATO still wouldn't act decisively. I've just read that the Biden administration doesn't want Ukraine to be able to take back Crimea because they're afraid that would create instability in Russia, which seems mad.

R187, it’s probably best for the U.S. to say the blandest things things possible right now.

R185 The original Chernobyl was already in Ukraine: "near the city of Pripyat in the north of the Ukrainian SSR in the Soviet Union"

Russian occupiers are reducing their presence at Zaporizhzhia NPP, reports Ukrainian intelligence.

Among the first to leave the plant were three Rosatom employees. Ukrainian employees who signed a contract with Rosatom were also advised to evacuate.

Look at this if something bad happens....

I have no doubt they will do it. But what do they hope to gain? They aren't protecting Russian speakers there...they are murdering them. The land will be unusable. Russians in Russia will be affected. The country will become even more of a pariah state.

Putin is like a family annihilator at this point - "if I can't have what I want, nobody can!"

R191- That is what is frightening about him and Trump. When trump had COVID and looked like death I worried that he would be bitter about dying and burn the world down on his way out. It was confusing because I also prayed he would die. 🙃

American special nuclear monitoring aircraft WC-135R Constant Phoenix arrived in Europe to take samples of atmospheric air and detect radioactive emissions.

That's ominous, R193

The possible consequences of this are monstrous. Large areas of the world depend on Ukrainian grain. What happens if it's irradiated, perhaps for many years? Large numbers of people around the world will starve. If the Dnipro is poisoned by radioactive water (ala Fukushima), then the Black Sea and the Mediterranean could be poisoned. It's simply not thinkable. Let's hope someone somewhere in Russia has some sense.

R195- At this point that is a lot to hope for. This is terrifying.

Keeping up to date on this, monitoring SM posts, is the only reason I had Twitter. Musk sucks.

Horrific attack on fearless journalist Elena Milashina and lawyer Nemov in Chechnya: car surrounded, beaten, gun to head. Elena had her head shaven, fingers broken, says Memorial.

Milashina broke the story to the world of Kremlin-backed warlord Ramzan Kadyrov's deadly purge of gay men in Chechnya.

The Russian currency slides to over 90 per dollar and 98 per euro. The ruble is tanking due to Kremlin's reduced FX income from oil sales and a sharp increase in political instability.

Trying everything to make it look like their leader isn't weak and their country isn't in collapse by abusing others. Too late, you pieces of shit!

R193

‼️ Zelenskyy: Occupiers have placed items that look like explosives at the Zaporizhzhia NPP

"Now the whole world must realize that general safety fully depends on global attention to the actions of occupiers at the plant. Russia must be clearly aware: the world sees what scenarios the terrorists are preparing for, and the world is ready to react.

Radiation is a threat to everyone in the world, and a nuclear power plant must be fully protected from any radiation incidents. The different nations of the world have their own intelligence and other capabilities to know exactly what is going on and who is to blame.

Now we have information from our intelligence that on the roof of several power units of Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant the Russian military have placed objects that look like explosives. Probably to simulate a strike on the plant. Perhaps they have some other scenario. But in any case, the world sees - and cannot but see! - that the only source of danger for the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant is Russia, and no one else.

That's horrible, R200. Isn't there anything to be done to prevent it?

I had just listened to a youtube expert who said he didn't think Putin would blow up the plant because it would cause greater concern among the west and would make them more likely to keep supporting Ukraine.

Oh well...

It feels almost inevitable. The Russians have done so many other horrific things so it's hard to think they'd stop at that and I'm having a hard time seeing NATO doing anything as well.

[quote] Zelenskyy: Occupiers have placed items that look like explosives at the Zaporizhzhia NPP

IAEA inspectors found this was a lie..

Despite continued accusations from Ukraine that Russia is planning to “blow up” the Zaporizhia NPP (ZNPP), the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) says its experts at the site “have so far found no visible indications of mines or other explosives”.

The IAEA said its experts were able to inspect parts of the plant’s cooling system, including some sections of the perimeter of the large cooling pond and the isolation gate of the discharge channel of the nearby Zaporizhia Thermal Power Plant (ZTPP). It noted that both this channel and the cooling pond “hold reserves of water that remain available for use by the ZNPP despite the destruction of the downstream Kakhovka dam more than three weeks ago”.

The IAEA experts have also been conducting regular walkdowns across the six reactor units and other areas around the site. Access to further areas is still expected, including parts of the turbine halls and some parts of the cooling system. “As previously indicated, the IAEA is aware of reports that mines and other explosives have been placed in and around the ZNPP, including mines near the cooling pond.”

IAEA Director General Rafael Mariano Grossi said such reports are taken very seriously IAEA experts at the site had been instructed to look into the matter and request necessary access. “Until now they have not observed any mines or other explosives. Further access will still be needed.”

So why is Russia's Foreign Ministry spokeswoman claiming Ukraine is going to blow it up if they don't have a false flag attack planned? I sincerely hope nothing will happen, but Russia is evil enough to follow through.

Only a moron would believe that Ukraine would blow up a nuclear power facility and subject their people and land to the effects.

Then again, "false flag" believers are generally stupid so they'll probably buy into this bullshit completely.

Chinese leader Xi Jinping warned Russian President Vladimir Putin against a nuclear attack in Ukraine.

Source: Financial Times with reference to a senior US administration official, a former Chinese official, Western officials, a senior adviser to the Chinese government, and sources close to the Kremlin.

Details: According to the sources of the publication, Xi made this statement during a visit to Moscow in March. Since then, Chinese officials have credited themselves with making progress in persuading Putin to abandon veiled threats to use nuclear weapons against Ukraine.

But the Kremlin contradicted the FT report about the warning from China:

[quote] The Kremlin has denied a report that the Chinese president, Xi Jinping, had personally warned his Russian counterpart, Vladimir Putin, against using nuclear weapons in Ukraine.

[quote] “No, I can’t confirm it,” Putin’s spokesperson, Dmitry Peskov, told reporters on Wednesday when asked about a Financial Times report that said Xi delivered the message when he visited Moscow in March.

Then Sophie from "Sophie's Choice" had this comment:

[quote] "Ah, the truth, ah, the truth, I don't even know what is the truth - after all these lies I have told."

So they can live in their own little "Alternative Facts" world where Russia isn't a murderering, raping, hated shithole of a force and their country isn't collapsing around them. Another genius move.

"Last night, Russia tested disconnecting itself from the global internet.

On June 5, around 2-4am Moscow time, 🇷🇺 authorities tested the Sovereign Internet system which led to disruptions of various websites & government infrastructure services 1/"

"2/ Russian railroad services and food safety systems were reportedly disrupted after the Sovereign Internet testing on the morning of July 5"

"3/ Experts also reported various disruption of Western internet services such as .@Google .@Wikipedia .@getlantern .@PsiphonInc between 2 and 4am Moscow time on July 5"

"4/ Given the fears of blocking of YouTube, Telegram, and the last remaining sources of accurate information in Russia, this development is extremely alarming #KeepItOn"

"5/ the first tweet should say *July 5* of course, not June"

[quote] Russia tested disconnecting itself from the global internet

That should work out well for them.

If I were Russian, being disconnected from the internet would enrage me. Work, banking, social media, source of a lot of information, being able to make bookings, all gone? I'm surprised they're considering that.

That said, I've heard that Putin doesn't use the internet so he's probably out of touch with what it would mean.

Macron thinks that's a great idea

[quote]If I were Russian, being disconnected from the internet would enrage me. Work, banking, social media, source of a lot of information, being able to make bookings, all gone? I'm surprised they're considering that.

I think the plan is to create a "great firewall" a la the Chinese. They have internet but block all those evil foreign Western sites. Whatever they see is highly restricted and censored.

I don't agree with Macron doing that but it's really not the same thing - it's censorship of part of the internet (and it's something people can easily get around with a VPN). What Russia is proposing is a whole other thing.

[quote]I think the plan is to create a "great firewall" a la the Chinese. They have internet but block all those evil foreign Western sites. Whatever they see is highly restricted and censored.

Russia already does that though? They block quite a few sites and social media. Most Russians have a VPN because of it.

Prigozhin has returned to Russia! In defiance of his peace deal with Putin, or whatever's going on.

"To contain the counteroffensive of the Defense Forces of Ukraine, Russia has withdrawn military formations from all over the country, British intelligence

📍The 58th Combined Arms Army of the Russian Federation, which usually deals with security in the Caucasus region, operates in the Zaporizhzhia region.

📍In the area of ​​Velika Novosilka, in the Donetsk region, positions are held by the 5th combined army and marines. The Russian Federation used this formation as a countermeasure to China.

📍The defense around Bakhmut is now mainly held by the airborne forces, which are usually stationed in the west of Russia and act as an elite rapid response force in case of tension in relations with NATO.

Intelligence noted that this shows how the war against Ukraine "displaced Russia's established national strategy.""

If the Russians are moving troops to Ukraine that normally keep peace within Russia, sooner or later the wheels will come off and Russian internal colonialism will spin apart.

I'm sorry to be so dense but this entire fiasco with Prigozhin is nothing but confusing to me. Maybe that is because I have never witnessed anyone challenging Putin and living to tell the tale. They are " dispatched" and very quickly. Yet this man has openly defied him and still walks free. Nothing about this makes sense to me.

Could it be that Putler is afraid killing Prigozhin would send the Wagner troops into a rage and they would start causing even bigger problems?

If Miz Lindz wants to visit the baths of Istanbul, she would need to be concerned about the level of protection Erdogan provides. Pootin wants her, and had issued a warrant to have the lady in his possession. That’s a totally unacceptable ambition. No way Miz Lindz should allow herself to succumb to the conniving, sinister Pootin.

DJT may now try to sell Miz Lindz to Pootin in exchange for millions, but the media worldwide would destroy DJT and Pootin over such a deal if it got exposed.

Miz Lindz, for your well-being, stay off DJT properties; you don’t know what the orange menace will order Walt to do.

The Biden administration is expected to announce Friday that the U.S. will provide cluster munitions to Ukraine, according to multiple administration and defense officials, a controversial move to boost the country’s military in its fight against entrenched Russian forces.

President Joe Biden signed a presidential waiver on the transfer of the weapons in recent days, two officials said.

The US plan to send cluster bombs to Ukraine fighters has been denounced by NATO ally Germany amid opposition to the deployment of weapons known to kill civilians and other non-combatants.

Germany opposes sending cluster munitions to Ukraine, its foreign minister said on Friday, a day after US officials said Washington was planning to provide Kyiv with the weapons, widely denounced for killing and maiming civilians.

Human rights organisations oppose such a move and German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock said that Germany, as one of 111 states party to the Convention on Cluster Munitions (CCM), did as well. The United States is not a party to the convention.

Asked for a comment on what US officials had said, Baerbock told reporters at a climate conference in Vienna: “I have followed the media reports. For us, as a state party, the Oslo agreement applies.”

Baerbock was referring to the CCM, which was opened for signature in the Norwegian capital in 2008. It bans the use, stockpiling, production and transfer of cluster munitions.

The munitions, banned by more than 120 countries including Australia and the United Kingdom, typically release large numbers of smaller bomblets that can kill indiscriminately over a wide area, threatening civilians.

Bomblets that fail to explode pose a danger for years after a conflict ends.

----------------------

Princess Diana was unavailable for comment

[quote] Human rights organisations oppose such a move and German Foreign Minister Annalena Baerbock said that Germany, as one of 111 states party to the Convention on Cluster Munitions (CCM), did as well. The United States is not a party to the convention.

Oh, fuck off! Russia has been using these munitions on CIVILIANS since day 1. Ukraine needs these to effectively neutralize the invaders on their soil and won’t be targeting their own people with them.

The more Orcs these bombs kill, the better.

As I said…..

Why did they send Ukraine cluster munitions to escalate the war?

[quote]Why did they send Ukraine cluster munitions to escalate the war?

"Escalate the war", you mean like how Putin bought a bunch of crappy Iranian drones for the sole purpose of targeting Ukrainian civilians? Or triggered an ecological catastrophe by blowing up a major hydroelectric dam? Or by kidnapping tens of thousands of Ukrainian children and shipping them to Russia, forever?

R230, escalating -- ha! Russia can always feel free to end this stupid, disastrous war of theirs that they started.

I immediately F&Fed that post at R230 when I saw it. It just seemed too obviously a pro-Russia post to be real.

𝐑𝐞𝐩𝐮𝐛𝐥𝐢𝐜𝐚𝐧𝐬 𝐜𝐡𝐞𝐞𝐫 𝐝𝐞𝐩𝐥𝐨𝐲𝐦𝐞𝐧𝐭 𝐨𝐟 𝐛𝐚𝐧𝐧𝐞𝐝 𝐰𝐞𝐚𝐩𝐨𝐧

Republican lawmakers —House Foreign Affairs Committee Chairman Michael McCaul of Texas, Senate Foreign Relations Committee Ranking Member Jim Risch of Idaho, and Senate Armed Services Committee Ranking Member Roger Wicker of Mississippi — sent out a joint press release praising the decision

Past US leaders have also moved to halt the spread of those controversial weapons. For example, the Consolidated Appropriations Act of 2010 and 2019 limited Washington from transferring cluster munitions unless the submunitions failure rate is below 1 percent, a figure below the Pentagon’s assessment for the weapons bound for Ukraine.

Briefing reporters at the Pentagon Friday, Under Secretary of Defense for Policy Colin Kahl said Biden has the right to waive that requirement on national security grounds. Although he did not disclose which “newer” DPICM variants are bound for Ukraine, or how many, he said those weapons have a 2.35 percent failure rate or below, based on five tests occurring between 1998 and 2020. However, the public won’t get a chance to see details because they are classified.

-----------------------

𝐈𝐥𝐡𝐚𝐧 𝐎𝐦𝐚𝐫 𝐜𝐨𝐧𝐝𝐞𝐦𝐬

“We have to be clear: if the US is going to be a leader on international human rights, we must not participate in human rights abuses. We can support the people of Ukraine in their freedom struggle, while also opposing violations of international law. (In fact, the innocent victims of the cluster munitions will almost exclusively be Ukrainian civilians).”

Biden say the decision was made because the faltering Ukrainian offensive was running out of munitions

I suppose by "escalate the war" the Putin-licker upthread means escalate the defense of Ukraine and of the principle of national sovereignty—which I'm okay with.

Why all the countries can not live peacefully? Why they fight for territory and resources all years? Why some countries keep producing big weapons, even nuclear bombs to threaten the whole world? Why are the politicians hypocrites? Why? Why? Why?

I told my BF I am sick of this world. He said I am a drama queen! Now I am depressed.

R236 Try telling Russia to drop their weapons and let people peacefully live - they won't, they want to kill as many Ukrainians as they can and destroy Ukraine. You sound a bit naive.

I'm feeler sicker and sicker about this damn war. All the people dying - even the young stupid Russian soldiers. They don't know why they're there - they don't want to be. All this shit for one aging megalomaniac who is scared to death at the thought of losing his miserable 70 year old life, yet happy as a lark to kill hundreds of thousands, many just kids. For what? Just to save his ass.

The quality of pee girls Pooty is sending to the orange menace in Mar-a-Lago have regressed in recent times.

Ukrainian Ministry of Defense: "Just because we are quite does not mean that we are not busy."

[bold]Ukraine spy chief says nuclear threat at Zaporizhzhia plant subsiding [/bold]

Budanov did not give details of what had been done to reduce the threat, or what it consisted of. He made clear he believed the threat had only been postponed until later.

"Sorry I can't tell you what happened recently but the fact is that the threat is decreasing", he said. "This means that at least we have all together with joint efforts somehow postponed a technogenic catastrophe".

"It's not eliminated. As long as the station is occupied this can happen again any time if they want", he said.

[quote] Budanov did not give details of what had been done to reduce the threat,

Unsurprising. Per the IAEA inspectors found nothing to confirm the Ukrainian story.

IAEA experts on site at the Russian-occupied plant -- the largest in Europe -- in recent days had inspected parts of the facility and continued to conduct regular walking inspections across the site. They were able on July 6 to check a wider section of the perimeter of the ZNPP’s large cooling pond than previously possible, he said.

International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) experts present at Ukraine’s Zaporizhzhya Nuclear Power Plant (ZNPP) have in recent days and weeks inspected parts of the facility – including some sections of the perimeter of the large cooling pond – and have also conducted regular walkdowns across the site, so far without observing any visible indications of mines or explosives, Director General Rafael Mariano Grossi said today.

This included a visit to the isolation gate separating the cooling pond from what remains of the Kakhovka reservoir after the destruction of the dam a month ago. The gate has been reinforced with counterweights and sand and there appeared to be no leakage of water from the pond, Grossi said.

"500 days of full-scale war and unwavering fighting for life. Thousands of human tragedies and millions of brave hearts beating as one. Over 27,000 of air raid alerts, 1,600 settlements liberated and one day closer. Closer to victory over the aggressor."

Turkey just approved Sweden's application to join NATO. This on top of returning the Azov commanders and announcing they would defend Ukrainian grain ships against Russian attack if Russia drops out of the grain deal. Turkey has definitely had enough of Russia.

Bloomberg: Zelenskyy to attend NATO summit in Vilnius

Ukrainian President Volodymyr #Zelenskyy will attend the #NATOSummit in Vilnius in order to gain support of the meeting participants in the issue of his country's joining the North Atlantic Alliance.

Stanislav Rzhytskiy, the former commander of the Russian Black Sea fleet submarine "Krasnodar", who fired missiles that killed many people, was shot dead by an unknown assailant this morning.

He was shot four times while jogging and interestingly he had a profile on Strava, where he posted his runs and bike rides....

R246 - SAD!

R245 - WONDERFUL!

It's reported that the assailant managed to avoid all surveillance cameras. This definitely seems to be a professional hit that has been planned for a while.

What - no windows handy?

I suspect that lots of Russians who feel they have strayed from Putin's favor avoid all buildings taller than 2 stories now.

On the heels of Finland joining NATO, Sweden has now been given the go-ahead to join too.

Putin's manicall aggression seems to be working out so well...for NATO.

As someone I heard put it, the Baltic is now a NATO lake, right up to the steps of the palace of the Summer Palace of Peter the Great in St. Petersberg.

[quote] St. Petersberg

Oh, dear.

Score for Putin.

"It’s unprecedented and absurd when [a] time frame is not set neither for the invitation nor for Ukraine's membership. While at the same time vague wording about ‘conditions’ is added even for inviting Ukraine," Zelenskyy said in a lengthy tweet Tuesday morning. He also said the international alliance was disrespecting his country and was subsequently "motivating" Russia in the process.

President Biden made it clear in a CNN interview that aired Sunday that he does not support Ukraine joining the alliance during its present war with Russia. 𝐵𝑖𝑑𝑒𝑛 𝑎𝑙𝑠𝑜 𝑛𝑜𝑡𝑒𝑑 𝑐𝑒𝑟𝑡𝑎𝑖𝑛 𝑖𝑠𝑠𝑢𝑒𝑠 𝑤𝑖𝑡ℎ 𝑈𝑘𝑟𝑎𝑖𝑛𝑒'𝑠 𝑒𝑙𝑖𝑔𝑖𝑏𝑖𝑙𝑖𝑡𝑦, 𝑠𝑢𝑐ℎ 𝑎𝑠 𝑎 𝑙𝑎𝑐𝑘 𝑜𝑓 𝑑𝑒𝑚𝑜𝑐𝑟𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑧𝑎𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛. While he said there should be "a rational path for Ukraine to be able to qualify to be able to get into NATO," he did not go into specifics.

Surely a country has to be fairly democratic for a famous comedian to win 72% of the vote? That does not sound like a Deep State intervention to me.

According to Zelensky's own previous work there is a systemic corruption problem in Ukraine, but that can be sorted out when the West assists them to rebuild, if the US is careful to keep its own tabs on where the money flows.

I don’t know r256. We elected a reality star. But Zelenskyy has my respect for refusing to give in to Dump’s extortion attempts. I think he’s the real deal.

Even though smart people hate it, a reality star being able to be elected is democracy. And the fact that he was able to be voted out after 4 years.

Look at this list of the current longest-serving leaders of the world which I got in my Axios newsletter this week. Not a single first world country amongst them (no, Russia doesn't count as one - they're a 2nd world country to me).

Democracy is good because once dictators get a grip, things tend to stagnate or go to shit.

$200 billion of munitions and other aid and they're defenseless?

Wagner mercenaries will start training Belarusian army.

In Belarus, mercenaries of the Russian PMC "Wagner" will be involved in training the army, reports the Ministry of Defense of the Republic.

Training and "exchange of experience" will begin after the PMC fighters arrive in the country and "disperse at its firing ranges". The Defense Ministry reports that the majority of mercenaries have not yet arrived in Belarus. According to the monitoring group Belaruski Hayun, there are about 200 "Wagnerites" in the country at the moment. They are located at the firing range "Losvido" near Vitsebsk, where they teach shooting to some army units.

Erdoğan to get his payoff for approving Swedish NATO membership

I really dislike how one country can hold everyone else hostage like this/blackmail to get a pay off in return. I think it should be a majority vote. The EU has a similar problem when countries like Hungary have a veto.

[quote]Look at this list of the current longest-serving leaders of the world which I got in my Axios newsletter this week. Not a single first world country amongst them (no, Russia doesn't count as one - they're a 2nd world country to me).

Of course, if QEII hadn't died she would have been at the top of that list with 75 years. Jordan is a monarchy just as is Britain.

R264 Not the same thing - the Queen effectively had no power in reality (she was just a symbolic head of state) while Jordan's king holds wide executive and legislative powers

Another unhappy commander. Major General Ivan Popov has been removed as commander of 58th Army in Zaporizhzhia

He released an audio recording in which he confirmed that he was relieved of command. "Our army could not be broken from the front by the Ukrainian military, we were stabbed in the back by the senior commander [Gen. Gerasimov]. He treacherously & despicably decapitated the army at the most difficult and tense moment."

"A difficult situation arose with the high command. I either had to keep quiet & be a coward & say what they wanted to hear, or call a spade a spade. In the name of all of you & all our dead friends, I had no right to lie."

"I therefore laid out all the problems existing in the army..I expressed myself at the highest level - frankly, extremely harshly.. Apparently, the high command felt some kind of danger from me & promptly, in 1 day, cooked up an order from the Defense Minister.. & got rid of me."

R265 - And yet that Senile Old Bitch still thought she could disband Parliament because Boris-What's-His-Name told her to do so. Shades of Charles I . . .

It IS the same thing.

Zelenskiy’s either letting the hero worship go to his head or he is starting to panic.

𝐔𝐒 𝐚𝐧𝐝 𝐔𝐊 𝐜𝐚𝐥𝐥 𝐟𝐨𝐫 𝐦𝐨𝐫𝐞 𝐠𝐫𝐚𝐭𝐢𝐭𝐮𝐝𝐞 𝐟𝐫𝐨𝐦 𝐊𝐲𝐢𝐯 𝐚𝐟𝐭𝐞𝐫 𝐙𝐞𝐥𝐞𝐧𝐬𝐤𝐢𝐲’𝐬 𝐍𝐚𝐭𝐨 𝐜𝐨𝐦𝐩𝐥𝐚𝐢𝐧𝐭

Britain’s defence secretary and the US national security adviser have suggested Ukraine ought to show more gratitude for the help it has received from the west, in response to Volodymyr Zelenskiy’s complaints that his country has not been issued a firm timetable or set of conditions for joining Nato.

Their unscripted remarks – at two different events on the margins of the second day of the Nato summit in the Lithuanian capital, Vilnius – appeared to prompt a change of tack from the Ukrainian leader on Wednesday, who later said he was “grateful to all leaders of Nato countries” for their support and help.

Ben Wallace, the UK defence secretary, said that “whether we like it or not, people want to see a bit of gratitude”, when asked about Zelenskiy’s frustration at not being presented with a formal invitation to join Nato, and he advised Ukraine that it might help if it took a different approach.

Presenting his remarks as helpful advice, Wallace said Ukraine had a habit of treating allies, including the UK, as if they were an Amazon warehouse with lists of demands for weapons – and was not always careful to try to win over more sceptical politicians in the US Congress and elsewhere.

“Sometimes you’re persuading countries to give up their own stocks [of munitions],” Wallace said. “Sometimes you’ve got to persuade lawmakers on the Hill in America. You’ve got to persuade doubting politicians in other countries that, you know, that it’s worthwhile.”

Wallace said it was not the first time he had spoken to Kyiv about this. “𝘐 𝘵𝘰𝘭𝘥 𝘵𝘩𝘦𝘮 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘭𝘢𝘴𝘵 𝘺𝘦𝘢𝘳, 𝘸𝘩𝘦𝘯 𝘐 𝘥𝘳𝘰𝘷𝘦 11 𝘩𝘰𝘶𝘳𝘴 𝘵𝘰 𝘣𝘦 𝘨𝘪𝘷𝘦𝘯 𝘢 𝘭𝘪𝘴𝘵, 𝘵𝘩𝘢𝘵 𝘐’𝘮 𝘯𝘰𝘵 𝘭𝘪𝘬𝘦 𝘈𝘮𝘢𝘻𝘰𝘯,” he said, and he observed that Ukraine had a habit of, once it had obtained one type of weapon, immediately starting to lobby for another.

Jake Sullivan, the US national security adviser, argued that “the American people do deserve a degree of gratitude”, in response to a pointed question from a Ukrainian activist who asked if Joe Biden was withholding Nato membership because he was “afraid of Russia losing, afraid of Ukraine winning”.

Sullivan, clearly irritated, said: “The United States of America has stepped up to provide an enormous amount of capacity to help ensure that Ukraine’s brave soldiers have the ammunition, air defence, the infantry, fighting vehicles, the mine-clearing equipment.”

The two men’s similar language suggested a degree of coordination and marked a rare check on Ukraine’s repeated requests for military and diplomatic help

R267 No. The Queen could only ever do what democratically elected Parliament/politicians told her to do. Your example isn't even the Queen unilaterally deciding anything - that's an elected POLITICIAN's decision.

On Wednesday, Russia’s Defense Ministry said it had taken possession of hundreds of tanks, rocket launchers and artillery pieces from Wagner as well as 20,000 assault rifles and other small arms and 2,500 tons of ammunition.

If true, that would likely leave any remaining Wagner units in Russia or Ukraine largely without weaponry.

"Currency collapse and capital withdrawal from Russia - Russian media The Moscow Times

A failed mutiny of Wagner PMC under the leadership of Yevgeny Prigozhin, which came as close as 200 km to Moscow, led to serious consequences for the Russian economy. As a result of the rebellion, a large-scale withdrawal of capital from the Russian banking system was observed.

According to the Central Bank of the Russian Federation, foreign currency deposits in Russian banks fell by $9.1bn in June. This led to a drop in the total amount of currency held by individuals and legal entities in the Russian banking system to $152.4bn - a new low since 2008. Experts point out that the sharp decline in foreign currency deposits directly indicates a powerful outflow of capital from the country.

Reduction in the supply of currency was one of the reasons for the collapse of the ruble after Wagner PMC rebellion. The ruble reached new lows since the start of the war, exceeding the mark of 102 rubles per euro and almost 94 rubles per dollar. The Bank of Russia stated in its monthly review that the main reason for the devaluation was a reduction in the supply of currency. The largest exporters also reduced their exchange sales in June by 23%, selling $7bn less than in May.

The situation with capital withdrawal and currency collapse had a negative impact on Russia's balance of payments. According to the data of the Central Bank of Russia, in April-June the country received only $5.4bn of balance of payments surplus, which is 14 times or 93% less than in the same period a year earlier. If we compare it with the first quarter of this year, the economy's notional foreign exchange earnings fell almost threefold.

Analysts attribute the fall in the balance of payments to Russian oil quotations, which continue to remain low. Discounts on Russian oil, which is priced at less than $50 a barrel, have reduced the economy's export earnings by $25bn, according to Goldman Sachs estimates.

Deterioration of the balance of foreign trade also plays a negative role in the Russian economy. Energy sanctions are becoming more significant, while domestic demand for imports is growing. Alexander Isakov, chief Russia economist at Bloomberg Economics, says that this reduces the ability to channel capital to finance infrastructure projects needed to overcome the effects of sanctions. Thus, the Russian authorities and economy find themselves in a quandary."

WSJ:

"Surovikin, known as General Armageddon for bombing campaigns he waged in Syria, is being held and interrogated in Moscow, the people said. He hasn’t been charged with a crime. One said Surovikin knew about plans for the insurrection but that the general wasn’t involved in the mutiny.

The Kremlin’s effort to weed out officers suspected of disloyalty is broader than publicly known, according to the people, who said at least 13 senior officers were detained for questioning, with some later released, and around 15 suspended from duty or fired.

“The detentions are about cleaning the ranks of those who are believed can’t be trusted anymore,” one said."

And the meltdown continues. Let's pop more popcorn.

[quote]I'm sorry to be so dense but this entire fiasco with Prigozhin is nothing but confusing to me. Maybe that is because I have never witnessed anyone challenging Putin and living to tell the tale. They are " dispatched" and very quickly. Yet this man has openly defied him and still walks free. Nothing about this makes sense to me.

Absolutely nothing about the Prigozhin situation makes sense. I've heard seasoned Russia experts, gobsmacked, unable to explain what the fuck's going on.

Funniest things I've read today:

[quote]Matt Gaetz Would Rather Have Russia Than Ukraine in NATO

I don't think he quite grasps the concept.

Merrick Garland may have made a huge mistake not prosecuting Gaetz.

Russia doesn't want to join NATO, you dumbfuck Gaetz. He must be really slow.

Gaetz also doesn't seem to get that Russia isn't anti-China and doesn't seem to want to join an anti-China alliance.

The Wall Street Journal: General Surovikin was detained and interrogated hours after the Prigozhin mutiny began.

Surovikin is in custody. About 30 other military officers were detained along with him.

13 senior officers have been detained for questioning. 15 military officers have been suspended or dismissed.

Surovikin reportedly knew of Prigozhin's plans, but did not participate in the mutiny himself.

Biden reverses stance concerning the prospect of Putin using nukes in Ukraine.

Putin has already lost? Then kick his ass off Ukrainian soil, including Crimea.

Link:

from r280. Joe Biden on Thursday said he doesn't believe there is a real danger of Russian President Vladimir Putin using nuclear weapons against Ukraine. His statement on the topic follows contrasting remarks made less than a month ago, when he said that the threat of Putin using tactical nukes is "real."

A year and a half of scaremongering down the drain

R282, I have to say, if Biden is so boldly pronouncing Putin the loser - R283's comment withstanding - then the US Gov, who always knows more than they talk about, must really know some shit. I think Russia is totally imploding and I'm here for it. I sympathize with progressive and democratic-leaning Russians and do not hate them as a people, but I hate Putin and "Russia" as a government. I hope we end up chopping it up into pieces forever and ever and ever.

I suspect that most democracy-loving Russians got out in the past year.

I could be wrong of course.

R285, if they have the money of course. And most don't.

Has anyone noticed that he is taking a fucking long time to run out of time and money?

It will take even longer when they get BRIC up to speed. American sanctions will mean less and less.

Up to speed on what?

AFAIK all of the BIC countries are fully up to speed on taking advantage of R’s current economic struggles to get oil at outrageously low prices. Why would they help Russia when its demise is working out so well for them?

Hahahahahahahahahah R288!

BRICS is a fucking joke.

Brazil - corrupt shithole that has NEVER had its economic and political act together Russia - no need to say anything further, but this is a country, that before the war had an economy the size of Illinois’, that likely won’t exist as a unitary state 12 months from now India - its economy and future is dependent on ability to replace China as a major manufacturing centre, which means getting more closely entwined with the west, not less. Also in a regional rivalry with fellow BRICS “partner” China and has already said no to a BRICS currency China - politically and economically peaked in about 2019. It’s about to undergo a rapid aging and collapse of its population (thanks to one child policy and mass urbanization leading to plummeting birth rates) and is in debt up to its tits. Also may not exist as a unitary state by 2030 South Africa - can’t even keep the lights on for half the day

R286 is right. The Russians with the money are generally not the ones who love the idea of democracy. Journalists and other people with connections in the West might make it out, but not the average working Russian, no matter how well educated and enlightened. Added to which, Russians are as patriotic as Americans: they are imbued with their culture and history and don't want to leave, they just want their politics to get better.

Parasitic. dictatorial counties enabling the cruel, mass serial killer in Moscow, deserve disdain by nations that have a recognized measure of respect for human rights.

Oh hey look. One Russian soldier who freely admitted to torturing Ukrainians is on vacation in NYC this week.

Maybe some Ukrainians over at Veselka can give him an extra-special welcome!

AP: Russian President Vladimir Putin wants to attend an economic summit in South Africa next month and the country is desperately trying to persuade him to stay away to avoid the legal and diplomatic fallout over his international arrest warrant, South Africa's deputy president said in an interview with a news website on Friday.

As a signatory to the treaty establishing the International Criminal Court, South Africa is obliged to arrest Putin on an indictment the court issued against the Russian leader in March for war crimes involving the abduction of children from Ukraine.

South African authorities are likely to breach the treaty and not arrest Putin, but some opposition parties, rights groups and legal activists have said he should be arrested and have threatened to do it themselves, raising security issues for the BRICS summit in Johannesburg.

R293, wouldn't it be something if he had an accident off of the Empire State Building?

Not very brave of South Africa. If they arrested him and Russia arced up in a big way (threatening them with nukes etc) they could always back down and say he escaped, but surely the odds are good that Russia would say, "I don't know him."

Putin got permission from Big Daddy GYNA to go to a Lunch n Learn in South Africa? That's cute.

At least one bridge span has collapsed on the Kerch Bridge after an apparent missile strike by Ukraine. All traffic stopped. It's 5am there currently. The bridge connects occupied Crimea and Russia.

Isn't that the same bridge where an abutment was damaged by an explosive on a boat some time ago?

Yep, they fixed the bridge after that.

It's not clear what actually damaged the bridge in the first attack, it could have been a truck bomb or a missile. It caused spans to collapse and lit a fire on a stopped fuel train that damaged the rail bridge. I think Ukraine would be better served by hitting the rail bridge since that cuts off more war material, but disrupting the motor traffic is fine with me too.

There's a video of the bridge at the link. It shows that the road has been cut at one part.

Love these threads. The title makes a mockery of the misguided belief Putin is losing. But the stupid Op keeps posting them.

Well, he... is. The Ukrainians are slowly making gains every week. The Russians are completely unable to make an offensive which is what Putin wants (to take over all of Ukraine) - they can only defend right now.

People thinking this can be over in a month are deluded - it will take a long time - but people who think Putin is winning are deluded as well.

[quote] The Ukrainians are slowly making gains every week.

Per the New York Times, five miles in a month. At heavy cost.

In the first two weeks of Ukraine’s grueling counteroffensive, as much as 20 percent of the weaponry it sent to the battlefield was damaged or destroyed, according to American and European officials. The toll includes some of the formidable Western fighting machines — tanks and armored personnel carriers — the Ukrainians were counting on to beat back the Russians.

The startling rate of losses dropped to about 10 percent in the ensuing weeks, the officials said, preserving more of the troops and machines needed for the major offensive push that the Ukrainians say is still to come.

he losses have also slowed because the counteroffensive itself has slowed — and even halted in places — as Ukrainian soldiers struggle against Russia’s formidable defenses. And despite the losses, the Ukrainians have so far taken just five of the 60 miles they hope to cover to reach the sea in the south and split the Russian forces in two. One Ukrainian soldier said in an interview this week that his unit’s drone picked up footage of a half-dozen Western armored vehicles caught in an artillery barrage south of the town of Velyka Novosilka. “They all burned,” said the soldier, who identified himself as Sgt. Igor.

Ukraine’s 47th Mechanized Brigade, one of the three Western-equipped and trained units that were deployed early in the campaign, was set to receive 99 Bradleys, according to the leaked U.S. military plans for the counteroffensive from February — still the most recent that have been made public.

Data from Oryx, a military analysis site that counts only losses that it has visually confirmed, show that 28 of those Bradleys have been abandoned, damaged or destroyed, including 15 in a village in Zaporizhzhia Province on June 8 and 9 as the 47th was attacked by helicopters while trapped in a minefield. Six additional Bradleys were reported abandoned or destroyed in Mala Tokmachka on June 26, but Oryx researchers said these losses had occurred earlier, although it is not clear exactly when.

Given that the 47th was the only brigade initially slated to receive the Bradleys, that means that nearly one-third of the original vehicles have been lost — although all but seven of them were blown up at one battleground.

The brigade lost 30 percent of the Leopards it was given — all but two of them in the first week of fighting, the Oryx data show.

Feel free to block me, tankie at R303. I will somehow manage to live without you.

Russia is pulling out of the agreement to allow Ukraine to ship its grain. China isn’t going to like that so it’s a sign of desperation.

No, that 5 miles in a month figure only covers one area in the south. Surovikin built a lot of defense lines over the winter which are hard to penetrate. (But again, that is not what Putin wants - he wants an offense.)

The ISW calculates that the Ukrainians have taken 97 square miles in about a month and they follow the war intensively.

"@TheStudyofWar· 4h

ISW calculated based on its own control of terrain data that since the beginning of the #Ukrainian counteroffensive on June 4 to July 9 Ukrainian forces liberated approximately 253 square kilometers (97 square miles) of territory."

[quote]🤡 "I wish Biden to die, and Zelenskyy to die too, and Putin to prosper": this was the wish of the odious propagandists "Gruzdev sisters" at a concert in a children's summer camp in Belarus. By the way, there are children in this camp who were kidnapped by Russian occupiers from Ukraine and taken to the territory of Belarus and Russia.

[quote] The ISW calculates that the Ukrainians have taken 97 square miles in about a month

That would almost correspond to an army capturing Denton Texas 96.4 sq mi.

Indeed, R287

Sergei Lavrov will replace Putin at the BRICS summit in South Africa amid ICC arrest warrant. In this farce, South Africa actually applied to the ICC to be allowed to let Putin to attend without arresting him because not to do so would be 'a declaration of war'. But it looks like the ICC said no and that Putin is a pariah on the world stage.

Meanwhile the Russians conducted a massive strike on Odesa. The Ukrainians say that most of it was aimed at the grain terminals and infrastructure.

I knew Putin wouldn't attend because he is a coward, and I strongly suspected they'd strike at the grain port at Odessa to underline the expiration of the grain deal and retaliation for the bridge. He never disappoints.

Wagner-linked Telegram channel releases stats for warlord Yevgeny Prigozhin's mercenary group from battle of Bakhmut:

-78,000 fighters, 49,000 of which were convicts

-22,000 killed, 40,000 wounded

-25,000 are now "alive and healthy"

-10,000 of those already in or going to Belarus

A White House National Security Council spokesperson has said that the U.S. has information indicating that Russia has laid additional sea mines in the approaches leading to Ukrainian Ports.

The U.S. is not ruling out that Russia might expand its attacks against civilian shipping in the Black Sea and blame Ukraine.

Wow, Girkin/Strelkov's lawyer has confirmed to the BBC that he's been detained and there's a video of him in a Moscow court for his initial hearing.

Court records show that Strelkov is being charged with felony incitement of terrorism, and investigators want him locked up in pretrial detention.

Girkin has made the mistake of not having his own army, unlike Prigozhin, but this appears to be Putin realising that he let the nationalists get away with too much and that it can blow up in his face.

The head of the British intelligence agency, MI6, said that Prigozhin's rebellion proved that Putin’s strategy for the invasion of Ukraine—his belief that Russia could simply hold out longer than the West—was wrong. Portions of Russia’s military were already objecting to the war and Putin’s obviously false reasons for it.

"John Steenhuisen MP @jsteenhuisen The South African government has applied for a warrant to arrest Vladimir Putin. This comes in direct response to the DA’s court case to compel the government to comply with the ICC directive to arrest Putin for abducting Ukrainian children. The DA also won costs.

Despite President Ramaphosa’s efforts to shield Putin – including his absurd claim that our Constitution somehow prohibited him from complying with the ICC directive – it is now clear that the DA’s commitment to justice and the rule of law has been completely vindicated.

This DA victory sends a clear message to the global community that, thanks to a patriotic official opposition and a justice system anchored in our Constitution, South Africa is not yet a lost cause in the global fight for a better world."

(DA = Democratic Alliance, South Africa's second biggest party.)

Good on South Africa’s Democratic Alliance!

"@Gerashchenko_en

Yet another mysterious death of a top-manager in Russia: Anton Cherepennikov, owner of Russian IKS Holding, died. He was 40 years old. The preliminary cause of death, according to official sources, was a heart stop.

Cherepennikov's IKS Holding is the largest company in Russia in the area of informational security and operative-investigative systems (more commonly known as "wiretapping").

His company has been serving Russian law enforcement structures and controlled by them for a long time. It executed a lot of measures connected to "Yarovaya law" - requiring Internet and telephone companies to disclose private communications and data of their users. Cherepennikov took part in developing a face ID system in Moscow.

In 2023 Cherepennikov and IKS Holding were sanctioned."

R320, he’s already been added to Wikipedia’s entry on “Mysterious Deaths of Russian Businesspeople.” In the article itself, one journalist speculated that many of these deaths may actually have been suicides, in that the people who killed themselves were ordered to do so.

Falling out a ten story building can cause heart stoppage at 40.

Deaths of dozens of his top generals. Deaths of generations of his country's young men. Killing scores of his own business leaders. Destroying his country's economy. Causing his people to become global pariahs except around trash like scrotal-skinned hags like Marge Pipe Bomb. Caught by the entire world fleeing and hiding in a bunker when Prigozhin and Wagner announce they're coming to chat. Owes Big Daddy GYNA everything.

Well done, I guess. Big winner.

Pootin issued a warrant to arrest the alluring Miss Lindzey. Silly Pootin, he’s not getting any of that with such a disdainful approach.

Russia has continued their war-crime bombarding civilian targets in Odesa with cruise and drone missiles. They intentionally attacked a UNESCO world heritage protected monastery claiming Ukrainians were assembling weapons there.

Putin seems to be on a strange anti-Polish troll at the moment. Threatening to invade (unlikely when they're a NATO country although it'd be interesting to see whether NATO would react if Wagner did) - and now a memorial to Polish victims of repression has overnight been removed in St Petersburg.

Link is to the before and after pictures of the memorial.

^Yeah, that'll make the Polish people like Russians more. Good going, Putin. Always playing "12-dimensional chess." HA!

He did make strange comments warning Poland against attacking Belarus, and that western Poland is a “gift from Stalin” (the Soviet Union and Stalin annexed what was eastern Poland).

"@ABarbashin

Russian authorities are blocking Wikipedia. Something you would not need to do if you have a full support for Putin’s policies. The longer this war goes the more denying open access we will see."

R329, maybe the Russian authorities can block themselves from the entire internet. The world would be a better place without their 'online' presence.

I wonder how our drunk Polish poster from the early days of the war is doing.

I think Poland has had sufficient.

Pathetic, desperate despot.

R332, yeah, I don't see the Polish people putting up with Russian BS.

R333 It's like a tragic comedy show....

Resupply

AP.- Land mines are in place around a Russian-occupied nuclear plant in Ukraine, UN watchdog warns.

KYIV, Ukraine (AP) — The U.N. atomic watchdog says its monitors at the Russian-occupied Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant reported seeing anti-personnel mines around the site as Ukraine’s military pursues a counteroffensive against the Kremlin’s entrenched forces after 17 months of war.

The International Atomic Energy Agency said its team observed the mines Sunday in a restricted area that is off-limits to the plant’s Ukrainian staff. The agency did not directly attribute the placement of the mines to the Russians but said its experts were told “it is a military decision, and in an area controlled by military.”

So where did all the tankies go?

Ran out of funding?

Krokodil overdoses?

Turned into Ukrainian cannon fodder?

The possibilities are endless!

"@JimmySecUK

Russian sources continue to be far more bullish on the performance of the Ukrainian counteroffensive than most Western commentators.

Key point in this extract... "if the West does not abandon Ukraine again... one can expect breakthroughs on the (Russian) front..."

I've linked to the milblogger translation which is in an image.

Shoigu is currently on an official visit in North Korea. To 'celebrate the 70th anniversary of the end of the Korean War' but one wonders if he's really there to beg for weapons/ammo/soldiers.

Soldiers? North Koreans would fight for Russia against Ukraine? Why??

Food.

I'll take "so they won't get shot" for $200, Alex.

From yesterday's WaPo, an overview of Putin's shockingly weak response to Prigozhin's march: he "appeared paralyzed and unable to act." The Kremlin issued no orders for hours as everyone in the world watched Wagner group soldiers move towards Moscow. Said a senior Moscow financier with ties to the Russian intelligence service: "Russia is a country of mafia rules. And Putin made an unforgivable mistake. He lost his reputation as the toughest man in town."

Sergei Shoigu called the North Korean army "the strongest in the world."

[quote]The Russian Mafia is “furious” with Vladimir Putin and reportedly looking to kill the Russian leader over his “disastrous” war against Ukraine, RadarOnline.com has exclusively learned.

[quote]In a shocking development to come 17 months after Putin’s forces first invaded Ukraine in February 2022, the Russian leader has seemingly found himself in the crosshairs of the dangerous Russian mob.

I don't think I buy that mafia article. The article claims they've tried to take Putin out three times - twice with grenades and once taking out 12 members of his staff. Wouldn't that have made the news?! Every time there's a fire or a drone attack in Russia someone takes a video and it ends up on social media.

[quote]“Twice, they tried to take out his car in a motorcade with RPG grenades and missed,” the insider spilled. “Another attempt involved rigging an elevator Putin was due to enter but didn’t. Instead, he lost 12 members of his staff – including the head of his security team!”

[quote] I don't think I buy that mafia article.

Perfectly in line with a year and a half of junk Russian coverage. Putin is about to die, Russia is out of weapons, Russia collapsing, etc

It's just a shitty source. Radaronline? I looked up what it is and it's an "entertainment and gossip website". There are way better sources so people just need to be more mindful of what the source is.

Radar online is a lot like TMZ. yes, a gossip site but they’re legitimate. I actually believe the story, although I’m not sure about the veracity of the details of any attempt on Putin’s life. The mafia is probably losing millions, maybe billions, to this folly.

The murderous thug and war criminals needs to be disposed and eliminated. He sees the demise of his own soldiers as simple fodder as he pursues his warped and sinister ambitions.

[quote] I don't think I buy that mafia article. The article claims they've tried to take Putin out three times - twice with grenades and once taking out 12 members of his staff.

Apparently, the Russian mafia are amateurs. With the one real and original Cosa Nostra, Putin would've awakened in bed months ago next to his prized horse's head.

[quote]I actually believe the story, although I’m not sure about the veracity of the details of any attempt on Putin’s life. The mafia is probably losing millions, maybe billions, to this folly.

Then you're a fool. Use some critical thinking. Taking out 12 members of security including his head of security would have been big news and very unlikely to have been kept secret. Nobody else is reporting that. Radaronline is based in the US and has no people in Russia, no quality reporting on Russia. The whole thing is pure fiction.

And what do you mean by 'the mafia' anyway? The oligarchs who are dependent on Putin's patronage anyway? Prigozhin has a private army but nobody else really has the kind of power that you need to get close to paranoid Putin who has a significant personal guard.

R352, you sounded reasonable until you questioned the existence of organized crime in Russia. It has nothing to do with the oligarchs. The Russian mafia is very powerful, and has flourished since the 1980s; numerous books have been written about it. Before the invasion of Ukraine, Russian and Ukrainian gangs were used to working together to move drugs into Europe. Apparently they have tried to carry on as usual but the war has been a real problem for them.

R353 Your own link said oligarchs!

[quote]“He has cut off the oligarchs and their criminal associates from legitimate and underground dealings with Ukraine, the rest of Europe, and the United States,” the source told us. “They’re furious.”

R352… ummm, isn’t that what I said? That I believed the story about the attempts but doubt the details? Like the 12 security members being killed?

And mafia? It’s organized crime and corruption, call it mafia or the oligarchs. Are you denying it isn’t prevalent in Russia? You’re hung up on semantics. But we’re the fools?

Drones hit Moscow this morning!

How unfortunate. I guess Muscovites get to experience, firsthand, the cause-and-effect of their ill-fated, stupid attempt at an invasion.

"Russia’s state-controlled television channels said nothing about the latest drone attacks on Moscow during their morning news broadcasts, focusing instead on a parade in St. Petersburg and the birthday of a celebrated gymnastics coach."

No wonder Telegram use by Russians has more than doubled:

[quote]Since the launch of Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine, Telegram’s reach in Russia has more than doubled. In January 2022, according to Mediascope, it was 25.5 million users per day. And by May 2023, 51.2 million citizens used Telegram (42% of Russia’s entire Internet audience). Back in October last year, the Russian Public Opinion Research Center (VTsIOM) recorded that the share of Russians who choose the Internet as the main source of information had reached 29% (66% among younger citizens), while TV remained the main source of information for only 16% (there are no more recent VTsIOM studies on this topic).

I'm so glad the arrogant and privileged Muscovites are getting a taste of war and bombing in their backyard. Now they live with just a small fraction of the fear that their country has unleashed in Ukraine.

Another reason to be glad is war in their backyard will make the Russians in Russia wake up - and have more reason to oppose the war and oppose Putin. I think there are elections soon? Not that they're run fairly but maybe there's some semblance of choice?

And if the war ends sooner than fewer Ukrainians AND Russians will die, because a lot of young men in the Russian army are being killed, whether the civilians are or not.

[quote] I'm so glad the arrogant and privileged Muscovites are getting a taste of war and bombing in their backyard.

Wouldn't be the first time.

This isn't going to have a significant effect on Russians. No-one died and it was only a few offices that got targeted.

[quote]I think there are elections soon? Not that they're run fairly but maybe there's some semblance of choice?

Elections aren't free in Russia. Putin is already planning to rig them so that he wins a big majority.

I think the drone attacks on Moscow are strategically the wrong move. They're more likely to stir a patriotic response since Russians are already paranoid about the world wanting to attack them. Hence all the propaganda about Russia already at war with NATO.

Disagree. I think it's the only way to get Muscovites to give a shit because otherwise they just keep living in their protected bubble where they think nothing can possibly affect them.

[quote] They're more likely to stir a patriotic response since Russians are already paranoid about the world wanting to attack them.

Don't worry. If this backfires as seems likely everybody will tidy it up by declaring it was a false flag by Putin after all.

R364, why would a few explosions convince them if killing hundreds of thousands of their sons hasn't?

^Because the vast majority of the dead are from the far-flung poorer regions. Hardly anyone from Moscow has been mobilized and they are trying to keep it that way.

R361, the videos of Russians crying all over Twitter say otherwise.

In slightly happier news, a Ukrainian fencer who was disqualified after refusing to shake hands with the Russian opponent (who she beat), got disqualified. But the IOC stepped in and issued an invitation to her to participate in the Paris Olympics.

R368 And what are they going to do? Nothing much. They will have shrugged it off within a day or two.

We'll see who's right. If things have changed significantly by September, then you're right and I'll apologise.

🤦

Russian MFA spokeswoman Maria Zakharova told African partners that the Russians are fighting in Ukraine for Africa

“They [the russians] defend with their lives the right of the African continent and all people on our planet to be free.”

Putin & Friends:

Ukraine is about to step up domestic production of drones.

Guessing the drone attacks won't be going away anytime soon.

Keep the Russkies on their toes, I say.

R371, Prigozhin himself was at that conference in St. Petersburg, bragging about being behind the uprising in Niger. It’s such a tangled web in Russia. I wonder if China and Russia will eventually fall out over their mutual desire to recolonize parts of Africa.

US Ambassador to UN - "Any attack of the Wagner group will be considered an attack by the Russian Federation"

If this is official policy, I'm relieved because Wagner has always been set up as a private militia so that Russia could have plausible deniability. They've been moving Wagner fighters to Poland's border for some reason.

R371, does anybody actually fall for Russians' bullshit lies?

I don't know any other culture where the majority of the shit they say is all lies.

2 more drone strikes reported in Moscow's business district at about midnight/1am - hilariously the SAME building. The offices there house 7 ministries.

[quote] I don't know any other culture where the majority of the shit they say is all lies.

R375 Allow me to introduce you to the culture of the Republican Party, you know, the Party that idolizes Putin.

NYTimes: Surveys show that the Kremlin’s propaganda campaign against the L.G.B.T.Q. community may have affected Russian attitudes: The percentage of respondents who said they viewed gay people with disgust or fear increased from 26% in 2013 to 38% in 2021.

[quote] The percentage of respondents who said they viewed gay people with disgust or fear increased from 26% in 2013 to 38% in 2021

Corresponding with the timeline of T assuming control of the gay narrative. Coincidence ?

Yes, r379, considering that trans people have never had nearly the presence in Russian society as they do in the west, and that presence in the West is not a factor of numbers, but of publicity, such as appearing in TV shows and the like. So your hypothesis is lame and doesn't belong in this thread.

Well, that's strange. I cannot see R379. I checked my ignored page but I only have Gerg blocked.

As for that poster's bullshit assertion, how do you explain that the opposite has happened in Western countries? That is, the percentage of people saying that they feel fear or disgust about gay people has gone down and not up.

Fact is, Putin has been propagandizing heavily against gay people and trying to paint the West as some kind of depraved place, using gay people as a scapegoat for years. That's why the percentage has gone up in Russia specifically.

[quote] Well, that's strange. I cannot see [R379]. I checked my ignored page but I only have Gerg blocked.

I’m sorry for your troubles.

So strange r381. I also can’t see r379 but the post doesn’t show up on my blocked posts. Doesn’t matter I guess, r379 is either a liar or deluded. A couple of pennies to r379 for a highly mediocre effort.

Statement by Poland (Google translated) after two Belarusian military helicopters violated Polish airspace by 3km:

"Mariusz Błaszczak, the Minister of National Defense, chairman of the Committee for National Security and Defense Affairs, ordered to increase the number of soldiers on the border and to allocate additional forces and resources, including combat helicopters.

NATO was informed of the incident.

In addition, the Committee agreed that the charge d'affaires of Belarus would be summoned to the Polish Ministry of Foreign Affairs to explain the incident. We would like to remind you that Russia and Belarus have recently intensified hybrid activities against Poland.

Due to possible further provocations, we call for responsible dissemination and commenting on information that may be used by the Russian and Belarusian regimes. "

The Russian drone attack on an elevator in the port of Izmail damaged almost 40,000 tons of grain. The grain was expected to be exported to African countries, China and Israel.

R385, Russia's bestest friend ever, China, must be feeling so happy and thrilled about that!

Poland deployed helicopters to the border with Belarus and declared its readiness to use weapons.

Poland decided to increase its military presence on the border with Belarus after Minsk's provocation with violation of the airspace of the republic on August 1.

"A Russian ex-convict who was apparently freed from prison to take part in the war against Ukraine has now been accused of returning home and butchering six people in a drunken rampage.

Igor Sofonov, 37, is one of two suspects arrested in the Republic of Karelia after authorities discovered two burned down homes containing the remains of six people who’d been stabbed to death. The victims were identified as a 39-year-old man and his 71-year-old father in one home, and a man and his wife, brother, and a pensioner in the second home.

Police say a “long-standing domestic conflict” motivated the savage murders in the village of Derevyannoye but gave no further details."

Ukraine used drones to attack a big Russian landing ship and it looks like it's sinking lol.

The Wall Street Journal on Tuesday reported that between 20,000 and 50,000 Ukrainians have lost at least one limb.

The publication derived that figure from ”previously undisclosed estimates by prosthetics firms, doctors and charities.”

The actual figure could be higher, the publication reported, “because it takes time to register patients after they undergo the procedure. Some are only amputated weeks or months after being wounded.” The ongoing counteroffensive will likely greatly increase that figure.

“By comparison, some 67,000 Germans and 41,000 Britons had to have amputations during the course of World War I, when the procedure was often the only one available to prevent death. Fewer than 2,000 U.S. veterans of the Afghanistan and Iraq invasions had amputations.”

Kerch bridge go boom!

CNN: Western officials say Putin unlikely to change course on war with Ukraine before U.S. presidential election

Senior U.S. and European officials are concerned that Vladimir Putin is counting on the 2024 U.S. presidential election to plan for war in Ukraine. He hopes President Joe Biden's defeat next year will force the U.S. to reduce its support for Ukraine and improve Russia's negotiating position, four U.S. officials told CNN.

R392, when you are expecting Trump to bail your ass out, your are really in trouble.

I can't find any credible reports that the Kerch bridge was hit but the Russian 'Sig' oil tanker near the bridge has been. This ship was used to transport oil and weapons for the Russian military and has been sanctioned by the US since 2019 so it was probably the target.

[quote] He hopes President Joe Biden's defeat next year will force the U.S. to reduce its support for Ukraine and improve Russia's negotiating position, four U.S. officials told CNN.

All the more motivation for Biden to hammer the nails down on Putin's coffin.

[quote] Joe Biden's defeat next year will force the U.S. to reduce its support for Ukraine and improve Russia's negotiating position, four U.S. officials told CNN.

Yes, by then US weapon depots will be empty. We already had to beg artillery shells from South Korea to cover promises to Ukraine.

CNN poll.

A majority, 55%, say Congress "should not authorize additional funding to support Ukraine in the war with Russia."

Another smaller majority, 51%, say the U.S. "has already done enough to stop Russian military actions in Ukraine."

A majority, 53%, also disapprove of Biden's handling of the Ukraine problem.

R397, who fucking cares what "the majority" of some random landline poll wants?

I know I don't!

Re: polling, Americans are very stupid when it comes to actual threats. They seem to think every real threat, whether it be COVID or Putin is something they can defeat by not being afraid or not paying attention.

Ukraine is replacing the Soviet Union hammer-and-sickle with the Ukrainian trident in the big Kyiv monument (pics at the link).

It's going to look way better than that communist shit that doesn't work in real life.

Ukraine has been radicalized by Russia killing and destroying their people and homes. Good luck at winning them over, Russia and the Russian trolls that still troll on DL.

The Russians seem to be pinning their hopes on the U.S. withdrawing support but if they think that will make Ukraine capitulate, I think they're deluded. I cannot see any way for them to realistically win this, frankly.

R397 is a pro-Russian troll. Block the turd.

[quote] The Russians seem to be pinning their hopes on the U.S. withdrawing support

Well that worked for Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan.

When the Russians have control of the Kyiv government and Ukraine as a whole (which is Russia's goal), then I will grant that you are right. But I think the chances of that are tiny!

Peskov on the 2024 election in a conversation with The New York Times:

"Our presidential election is not a real democracy, it's an expensive bureaucracy. Putin will be re-elected next year with more than 90 percent of the vote."

Peskov said that The New York TImes edition distorted his words about Putin's re-election

"Absolutely The New York Times journalist is incorrectly conveying this. There was a question on his part about the elections and who would be elected. The answer was as follows: the level of consolidation of society around the president is absolutely unprecedented and it is already safe to say that if Putin is nominated, he will be re-elected with a huge advantage, there is no doubt about it.

[quote]it's an expensive bureaucracy.

You mean they have to pay people to stuff the ballots with fake Putin votes. I don't even know why they bother pretending any more.

Who is going to run against him, knowing that they would end up just like Navalny or Boris Nemtsov?

Peskov has now told Russian media that elections may not be held. Very interesting; do they want to save money so they have more to fratricidally kill Ukrainians? I remember all the videos on twitter of illegal ballot stuffing at their last election.

[quote]“Although elections are a requirement of democracy and Putin himself has decided to hold them, theoretically it’s possible not to hold them,” Peskov told Russia’s RBC news website. “Because it’s already obvious that Putin will be elected,” he said, noting that the statement is “absolutely [my] personal opinion.”

[quote] Peskov has now told Russian media that elections may not be held.

Following Zelenskyy's lead

^At least Zelensky is not the one invading, bombing, raping, pillaging their way through foreign countries, Svetlana.

R409 There is martial law in Ukraine due to being invaded, you total piece of shit.

Russia has not been invaded. And there is not martial law in Russia.

Reminder that martial law is NORMAL and expected whenever a country is invaded or attacked.

Now go take your beets and vodka for posting that, well done! Nobody remotely informed here is convinced.

R409 1/10 must try harder.

I love how all these pro Russia trolls twist themselves into a pretzel to defend the indefensible. They must be sad and desperate.

R413, and the funny thing is that there is absolutely no conceivable reason why any gay person would logically defend that homophobic regime. And yet here we are, with Putin apologists left and right..

Elon Musk’s Twitter is saturated with Russian trolls spewing anti-Ukraine rhetoric and propaganda.

Defending the sadistic, murderous thug, Pootin, reveals the disgusting character of these trolls and the nitwit MAGAts they influence.

Russians are so disgusting. They fired missiles at central Pokrovsk in eastern Ukraine last night, hitting a popular hotel and pizza place. So far 7 dead and 67 injured, including 29 police officers and 7 rescue workers who rushed to the scene to help people and then got caught in a “double tap.”

[quote]So far 7 dead and 67 injured, including 29 police officers and 7 rescue workers who rushed to the scene to help people and then got caught in a “double tap.”

Same shit they pulled in Syria. Revolting.

Washington Post

KYIV, Ukraine — This nation is worn out.

Ukrainian officials and their western partners hyped up a coming counteroffensive — one that, buoyed by a flood of new weapons and training, they hoped would turn the tide of the war.

But two months after Ukraine went on the attack, with little visible progress on the front and a relentless, bloody summer across the country, the narrative of unity and endless perseverance has begun to fray.

The number of dead — untold thousands — increases daily. Millions are displaced and see no chance of returning home. In every corner of the country, civilians are exhausted from a spate of recent Russian attacks — including strikes on a historic cathedral in Odessa, a residential building in Kryvyi Rih and a blood transfusion center in the Kharkiv region.

Ukrainians, much in need of good news, are simply not getting any.

Before, she said, even when the situation was painful, “people were united.” They volunteered, made meals for one another and delivered food to soldiers. Now, she said, there’s a sense of collective “disappointment.”

Blyzniuk also lives in fear that her husband or two sons of fighting age will be mobilized. She has already noticed that far fewer men walk the streets of her city than before. Ukraine does not disclose its military casualty counts, but everyone shares stories, she said, of new soldiers at the front lasting just two to three days.

Given the choice now, Proektor said, he would not sign up again. “They are taking everyone and sending them to the front line without proper preparation,” he said. “I don’t want to be in the company of unmotivated people.”

Others like him are mainly enraged at Russia — but they also aren’t afraid to criticize Ukraine.

Last week, President Volodymyr Zelensky acknowledged that a government audit of recruitment centers discovered “revolting” practices among corrupt officials.

More things go boom in suburban Moscow tonight.

Ooops.

That place is a warehouse and the explosion at the Zagorsky Optical and Mechanical Plant two days ago was pretty impressive too (linked).

They must have a team of spies and saboteurs inside Russia starting fires and launching drone attacks on strategic places.

Putin is considering going to the G20 summit in September.

Hmm, it's in India and India has not ratified the Rome Statute that compels them to carry out International Criminal Court warrants so he just might do it to troll everyone but I'd bet a lot of money that he won't go. Too much of a security risk and I could see other nations refusing to participate.

The ruble exchange rate has gone to shit - it's worth just one US cent now - and Russian TV propagandist Vladimir Solovyov is not happy about it - ranting on TV about it and blaming the central bank (what a rube!)

Cry harder, pinko fascist bitch!

More $

Doctors in the Russian-occupied village of Lazurne in the Kherson region will not give medicines to residents who have not received Russian passports, Gauleiter of the local administration Aleksandr Dudka said.

"First of all it concerns people who need insulin, they have already felt on themselves how to be a citizen of another country," - he said.

People "who have not yet issued passports of the country they live in" will not receive humanitarian aid either.

Blinkin’s approach of phased distributions of weapons and needed accessories is counter productive. Give Ukraine the jets, other firepower and accessories more timely and expediently. Sitting ducks to Putin’s terror tactics has to be vigorously countered. Russia has to feel it painfully as well.

^ Antony Blinken

R427 I wonder why they're doing it like this too. Using up old gear? I do genuinely understand why NATO doesn't act, because Ukraine isn't a member and they need to send a message but it's so frustrating because if NATO acted, this probably would be over already.

Fuck the Russians and their trolls/apologists.

Yes, most of NATO is giving Ukraine their older equipment, which is understandable. The US has to keep in mind we may be in a similar situation with Taiwan in the near future. What the US and NATO could be doing is providing much more active support in the Black Sea to ensure the grain and other international shipping is protected.

"@Tendar

Ukrainian forces fully liberated Urozhaine.

Even by (low) Russian standards this battle has been unusually bloody and costly for the Russian occupation. The town was cut of by AFU from 3 sides, leaving only a narrow path in the south for supplies, reinforcements and in the end escape. This was a welcome chokepoint for the Ukrainian artillery, making it for many Russians the highway to hell, as documented by the videos in my previous posts."

There's civil unrest in Dagestan because many residents have been without water or electricity for days. Russia prefers to spend her money on killing Ukrainians rather than on infrastructure in Russia.

The Central Bank of Russia has hiked the key interest rate to 12% (from 8.5%) after a public request from the Putin's administration. Apparently, the symbolism of $1 trading for 100 Rubles matters. A 3.5% hike is huge!

There have already been huge problems with Russian military contractors declaring bankruptcy since the beginning of the war and they already had problems getting even getting bridge loans, much less at low rates. The new huge interest rate hikes will make this exponentially worse.

China is helping to arm Russia with helicopters, drones, optical sights and crucial metals used by the defence industry", The Telegraph writes.

Oh my, China is testing its armaments at Russia's expense. Kinda reminds me of Germany testing out its planes in the Spanish Civil War.

When Putin no longer serves the best self interests of the Chinese and others and is no longer ‘useful’ he will be gone.

Putin’s war Is unleashing a crisis back home in Russia.

Russia is apparently not ready for the ex-cons and hardened criminals they enlisted to come back home.

Alternately one might argue Russia is more secure with so many habitual criminals eliminated in the Ukraine trench warfare. Much like the San Francisco junkies OD'ing as police do the bare minimum against the cartels and dealers.

R439, yeah, I don't think so.

Exhibit B.

Meanwhile, back at the dacha...

[quote]Alternately one might argue Russia is more secure

Such a formal way of speaking. Is that the talking point your employer gave you?

I heard a clip the other day from an interview with Vivek Ramaswamy, who insisted that as president, he will (I'll courteously employ a future-real condition) cut off aid to Ukraine and travel to Moscow to woo Russia out of its Chinese alliance, which he regards as the worst threat to American security today, and into partnership with the US. Real foreign policy genius, that one.

Vivek is another wannabe authoritarian seeking Putin’s blessings.

Isn't Russia going broke? How will they be able to keep all these Repug traitors on their payroll and keep their stupid war going?

R446 Russia is a gas station economy so they'll have oil to sell. It's not particularly fair, just sheer luck of geography like Saudi Arabia. Also, they spend 11x more than Ukraine on their military both historically and now so Ukraine is honestly doing amazing even keeping up with this.

How many world leaders could do this (and have that tight body)?

The Russians have officially admitted that one of their Tu-22M3 bombers was [italic]damaged[/italic] destroyed at the Soltsy Air Base near Novgorod (650km from the border with Ukraine). A picture has now emerged of the plane moments after the attack.

"Explosions heard in Moscow"

*Teletubbies voice* "AGAIN!"

Prigozhin's private plane shot down! He's dead! (Allegedly)

BBC thinks its true

Good night, sweet Prigozhin! And flights of angels sing thee to thy rest!

Although I think the odds of him dying in that crash are very close to 100%, the spy-novel-reader in me thinks about whether he would have a get-out-of-jail-free card if he faked his own death by pretending to be on this plane. After all, as many people have said, he's been a dead-man-walking ever since he threatened to march to Moscow with the Wagner group.

OMG, but to be honest I have not understood why Putin was letting Prigozhin walk about as if normal (knowing the way Putin thinks). Well, now it's been done. I guess he wanted to make sure that Prigozhin's fighters were dispersed or out of the country first.

Message sent loud and clear now.

Some info:

"The plane was en route from Moscow to St Petersburg and was carrying seven passengers and three crew members.

The Russian Aviation Authority has confirmed that Russian mercenary chief Yevgeny Prigozhin and Wagner chief commander Dmitry Utkin were on board the crashed Embraer plane.

All 10 people onboard the plane died, according to Russia’s ministry for emergency situation, Reuters reports.

The other five passengers have been identified as: Sergey Propustin, Evgeniy Makaryan, Aleksandr Totmin, Valeriy Chekalov, Dmitriy Utkin, Nikolay Matuseev and Prigozhin.

The crew have been identified as: Commander Aleksei Levshin, co-pilot Rustam Karimov and flight attendant Kristina Raspopova.

The plane went down almost 300km (186 miles) north of Moscow, according to Russian state news agency Tass."

So… we know Putin had the plane shot down. What reason are they giving to the public?

[quote]So… we know Putin had the plane shot down. What reason are they giving to the public?

Russia’s Investigative Committee has opened up an investigation into the crash on charges of air safety rule violation.

You have to laugh but there it is.

I think they’re claining it was an act of terrorism by Ukraine. But they don’t really need a plausible explanation because Putler was very obviously sending a message to anyone who might think of trying what Prigozhin did.

I don’t believe it.

That hateful troll will turn up in Africa somewhere. Mark it.

[quote]I don’t believe it. That hateful troll will turn up in Africa somewhere. Mark it.

It makes perfect sense to me. It was more perplexing that Prigozhin was still alive.

I have seen some headline that Prigozhin had only just arrived that morning in Moscow from a trip to Africa (to stir up shit there). There's actual video of him from Africa from 24 hours ago or so. So there's at least a smidge of doubt why he would turn around and fly directly to St. Petersburg after a very long flight, on a different airplane. At least that's the conspiracy theory version of events.

Ugh. OK then, explain to me what benefit there is to faking Prigozhin's death? To Prigozhin and to Putin?

The troll would want to fake his own death for any number of reasons. To get out of Putin’s sights, to continue stirring shit in Africa and the ME out of Putin’s reach.

To move his operation to China or India where he could be relatively safe to start up his troll farms, hacking and other bullshit for Xi.

Why WOULDN’T he fake his own death, if he had the opportunity?

No benefit to Putin at all. If Prighozhin was able to fake his own death by forcing a body double to take that flight, he could escape Russia (through Belarus, or even by flying on another private jet out of the country) and start a new life elsewhere. He is/was an oligarch, so undoubtedly has billions stashed somewhere. Putin's arm is long (via secret agents), but getting shorter as his war efforts are costing him and depleting the reserves of people loyal to him.

The Wagner-affiliated Grey Zone Telegram channel published a video of the warlord overnight, in which he declares: “We’re all going to hell — but in hell we’ll be the best.”

You really don’t think they would do DNA testing to identify the bodies? And the other people on the plane would have got on with the body double as if everything was normal?

[quote] “We’re all going to hell — but in hell we’ll be the best.”

𝐻𝑒𝑟𝑒 𝑎𝑡 𝑙𝑒𝑎𝑠𝑡 𝑊𝑒 𝑠ℎ𝑎𝑙𝑙 𝑏𝑒 𝑓𝑟𝑒𝑒: 𝑡ℎ'𝐴𝑙𝑚𝑖𝑔ℎ𝑡𝑦 ℎ𝑎𝑡ℎ 𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑏𝑢𝑖𝑙𝑡 𝐻𝑒𝑟𝑒 𝑓𝑜𝑟 ℎ𝑖𝑠 𝑒𝑛𝑣𝑦, 𝑤𝑖𝑙𝑙 𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑑𝑟𝑖𝑣𝑒 𝑢𝑠 ℎ𝑒𝑛𝑐𝑒: 𝐻𝑒𝑟𝑒 𝑤𝑒 𝑚𝑎𝑦 𝑟𝑒𝑖𝑔𝑛 𝑠𝑒𝑐𝑢𝑟𝑒, 𝑎𝑛𝑑 𝑖𝑛 𝑚𝑦 𝑐ℎ𝑜𝑖𝑐𝑒 𝑇𝑜 𝑟𝑒𝑖𝑔𝑛 𝑖𝑠 𝑤𝑜𝑟𝑡ℎ 𝑎𝑚𝑏𝑖𝑡𝑖𝑜𝑛, 𝑡ℎ𝑜𝑢𝑔ℎ 𝑖𝑛 ℎ𝑒𝑙𝑙; 𝐵𝑒𝑡𝑡𝑒𝑟 𝑡𝑜 𝑟𝑒𝑖𝑔𝑛 𝑖𝑛 ℎ𝑒𝑙𝑙 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑛 𝑠𝑒𝑟𝑣𝑒 𝑖𝑛 ℎ𝑒𝑎𝑣'𝑛.

Lindz G’s comment:

The likely scenario is that Prigozhin's jet was disabled by a small bomb, probably near the tail. That explains why the aircraft appeared largely intact as it plummeted to the ground from it's cruising altitude. Putin really wanted him to suffer.

The WaPo reported:

[quote]The Embraer business jet, which listed the mercenary group chief among its passengers, crashed northwest of Moscow, killing all 10 on board, according to Russia’s civil aviation agency. On Thursday morning, pieces of the jet — including what appeared to be its tail — lay more than a mile from the primary crash site.

And I had the polonium tea all piping hot on the cart! Sheesh!

Heineken has sold their entire Russian operations for 1 euro. The businesses who got out soonest have lost the least money on the whole. It's evidence that Russia is not a good place to do business in.

China and India, plus some others, buy-up the Russian petroleum. China sends Russia weaponry and other war supplies in exchange for much of the oil.

[quote] It's evidence that Russia is not a good place to do business in.

Mainly it's evidence big corporations can take a write off if they submit to the politization of their business decisions. The business in Russia will continue.

Approximately 1,800 employees will be guaranteed employment by Arnest Group for three years, according to the deal.

R474 Nope. Why is the ruble bombing if it's not a big deal?

R474 is a troll. Of course it’s a big fucking deal. A business is making decisions based on the precariousness of the situation in Russia. They don’t give a shit about a write off, that only helps ease a bit of the impact. They just lost a chunk of their business portfolio. Btw, that guarantee of employment? Means jack shit.

Heineken are incurring a total cumulative loss of €300 million because of it.

[quote]Putin is considering going to the G20 summit in September.

Peskov (his spokesperson) has just said that Putin won't be going.

How totally fucking insane would a provocative troll need to be to say this?

[QUOTE]Putin is considering going to the G20 summit in September.

Every tin pan hit man, crazy toons, and actual numerous Western governments vying for a mysterious yet not mysterious death would absolutely HATE the idea of cheap, doofus Putin walking straight into it without intrigue at G20.

I think it would be a major disappointment for real Wester spy agencies. But regardless, the motherfucker IS NOT WELCOME.

Things are getting lively on the southern front, and Ukraine has been killing it (literally) with significant attacks on anti-air systems, airbases, and even commando raids in Crimea.

Pootie, who Trump claims is the apple of his eye, is the world’s most villainous mass murderous. He must be nullified.

^ murderer

Mariupol, summer 2023.

Vivek Ramaswamy, one of the candidates for the post of the US president from the Republican Party, said that if he is elected US president, he will recognize Russia's control over the occupied territories of Ukraine.

In addition, the candidate promised to block Ukraine's potential accession to NATO, and Russia to return to the world market by lifting all sanctions.

The more I hear from Ramaswamy, the more disgusting he becomes.

[quote]An interesting post on the Telegram channel of "Z-blogger" Pozdnyakov:

[quote]"God, don't you leave us 🙏🙏🙏

[quote]Pray to God you are alive and healthy 🙏"

[quote]What is going on?

@yarotrof · 47m

Ukraine launched a barrage of drones all across Russia, destroying at least four IL-76 military aircraft in Pskov, hitting a microelectronics factory in Bryansk and a fuel depot in Kaluga. A GRU special-forces base near Pskov also on fire. No Russian civilians reported hurt.

Russia meanwhile launched its own barrage of missiles and drones at Ukraine, with two people reported killed in Kyiv. Ukrainian drone attacks aim to deter Russian long-range strikes on Ukrainian cities, but so far Moscow is just doubling down.

R487, Russia uses multi-million dollar missiles to hit supermarkets and playgrounds. Ukraine uses cardboard drones to knock out military targets.

Total so far is 4x IL-76 transport planes used to collect inmates & conscripts from throughout Russia for deployment to Ukraine and 1x Tu-22 supersonic strategic bomber used for striking Ukrainian civilians.

Those drones last night managed to take out the most planes so far.

Guess the war Pootz started gas now come home.

Too fucking bad.

[quote] Heineken are incurring a total cumulative loss of €300 million because of it.

A literal drop in the keg for them R477.

[quote]A literal drop in the keg for them

Oh dear.

And $300m of their $1.4bn profit is 21.43%. That's big for any business. Not a little 'drop'.

[quote] And $300m of their $1.4bn profit is 21.43%. That's big for any business. Not a little 'drop'.

It’s a one-time write down of their assets, the Russian business did not account for $300M of their profits.

Heineken has a market capitalization of 50 billion Euros. Revenue for their last fiscal year was €35 billion.

So yeah, a one-time $300M writedown is a drop in the bucket/beer keg.

R494 No, it isn't, especially given that it also means that Heineken can't do business in Russia now. It's so cute how you try to paint this as nothing. No-one is fooled, vatnik.

From CNN:

[quote]Elon Musk secretly shut down Starlink access off the coast of Crimea last year to thwart Ukraine's underwater USV attack on the Russian Navy.

This man has entirely too much power.

The headquarters of Russia’s Southern Military District in Rostov — the nerve center of the Russian war against Ukraine and a compound briefly seized by Wagner in June — rocked by powerful explosions.

Musk has been consistent Starlink can be used to defend Ukraine. Not to take the war into Russia. Ukraine knew that.

These are supposedly the same terms for the US supplied weapons to Ukraine.

Musk is still an epic prick who needs to have his assets seized and then be deported.

[quote] Musk has been consistent Starlink can be used to defend Ukraine. Not to take the war into Russia.

Crimea is NOT Russia.

Also 497:

[quote] Crimea is NOT Russia.

Not until Obama and VP Biden permitted it.

[quote]Not until Obama and VP Biden permitted it.

Stupid vatnik, it's nothing to do with them. Crimea is Ukraine, end of. The USSR transferred Crimea to Ukraine on the 300th anniversary of the Pereyaslav Treaty in 1954 and then Ukraine got independence in 1991.

Putin illegally invaded Crimea in 2014 and annexed it.

This has NOTHING to do with Obama and VP Biden.

Great piece in WaPo yesterday

He's right, of course, ElderLez, however, I just don't think the Russian people have it in them to do what he suggests. They're too comfortable with plutocracy. By and large, they not suffering much under the weight of tyranny, they're resigned to it. The current regime will fall, but it almost certainly will be replaced by another power player. Plus c'est la même chose.

Russia has been prone to authoritarianism for centuries. They don’t understand the concept of democracy, or have any interest in exploring this, except for a small minority, who have advocated it. Capitalism among the masses shows little movement beyond the oligarchs. They want a benevolent dictator, who is a strong man. Putin, though, it’s not particularly benevolent.

If the Germans can do it, why not the Russians? Of course it took a massive and overwhelming defeat to do that.

The Germans were entirely different. First, only about half of the country was liberated from Nazism into Western democracy for 40 years, at which time they were basically under Western occupancy and under direct threat from the USSR. That accelerated massive changes in social attitudes and allowed development of a robust economy and political stability. They also were not primarily peasants, but had a pretty educated population with a significant middle-class that values personal autonomy and prosperity.

When the USSR fell, West Germany was in a good position to incorporate East Germany, which had a full generation which was oppressed like the Soviets; economically destitute and rife with corruption and cronyism. West Germany dismantled this (for the most part, there are still vestiges).

The Russians have nothing like this. There are serfs and the rich, with a middle class that has largely left the country or are complacent and willing to accept authoritarians.

R505's views are consistent with my observations on a visit to Russia. Even the educated classes, who loathe Putin, are looking for a "strong man" leader. The reason is partly that the country has never known anything other than autocracy, and partly that when they've had a personally weak leader they have not fared well. Nicholas II was the first example they'll cite, and Gorbachev is the other.

While the West perceived Gorbachev as a savior of the country, in fact the way he moved towards what he wanted wasn't practical and there was a lot of economic suffering by the time he was ousted (followed by a breakdown in law and order under Yelstin). Even more importantly, ordinary Russians see Gorbachev as the moment when they ceased to be a superpower; the moment which led to the collapse of the Soviet Empire which Putin recently thought he'd put back together. They would not let G be buried in Red Square like the other Soviet leaders. If they're seeing enough of it on the news to understand the situation, they will be totally pissed that Zelensky is the one looking strong in this fight, and I don't mean because he has more artillery.

If they could catch a break and get an actual benevolent dictator with lots of charisma and who got on well with Western leaders, the Russian people might be able to move to democracy over a decade or so. It is by no means running as a communist economy now.

Attention, Great Britain, Germany, USA and Poland!

New threats from depressed Russian propagandist Solovyov. He gloomily predicts that today's attacks in Sevastopol "are just the beginning".

[quote] get an actual benevolent dictator

This almost never happens. Power almost always corrupts and even if that one is ok, what replaces him is likely to be one of the evil ones. Democracy may be imperfect but it's the only thing that seems to check this somewhat.

My family thinks I'm benevolent!

R509, I knew this war before it became famous; remember the cute little Special Military Operation? Back when no one was allowed to call it a w__?

A very close call. A Russian pilot fired two missiles at an RAF reconnaissance jet over the Black Sea. Both missed.

It's not clear when this happened.

They really don't, R511.

Kadyrov is reportedly in critical condition - Andrii Yusov, representative of Ukrainian Defense Intelligence.

Some Russian media inform that Kadyrov is in a coma.

Mr. Yusov said that some of Kadyrov's illnesses have intensified, and that's why he's in a critical condition. He added that this information gets confirmed from various sources.

"He's been sick for a while, and it's about systematic health problems. But he's been in a bad state for the last few days" - Yusov about Kadyrov.

Well he did have his doctor buried alive because he believed he'd been poisoned. Maybe he was right.

And only 46. Such a baby. And the NY Post says he's a Putin ally? Or was?

R515 what a terrible shame for this to happen to such a kindly person!

R517, the emphasis probably should be on "was." He (apparently) has always been a Putin ally, but perhaps not useful enough. The rumor is that he was poisoned by GRU, Russia's foreign intelligence service.

Kadyrov wasn't useful enough? Who's going to keep the Chechens in line when he's gone? Russia's ramshackle empire is always ready to spin apart at the slightest crisis.

Kadyrov caught syphilis from fucking goats?

No, the goats caught syphilis from Kadyrov.

Telegram channels are claiming that Kadyrov has died in a Moscow hospital.

Hasn't that already been debunked? Kadyrov put out a video yesterday.

Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky has fired all six of his deputy defence minister with no explanation weeks after dismissing his top defence minister.

Ukraine's cabinet said that the decision was made today, according to a post that revealed the mass dismissal.

No explanation was given as to why Vladimir Gavrilov, 65, Rostyslav Zamlynskii, 47, Hanna Maliar, 45, Denis Sharapov, 50, Vitalii Deineha, and Kostiantyn Vashchenko, 50, were all dismissed.

But the move comes just two weeks after Zelensky fired his wartime defence chief amid allegations of graft and corruption.

Oleksii Reznikov's tenure at Ukraine's wartime defence chief was marred by serious allegations of graft, which he denied.

Somebody along the line wasn't getting their cut

It is being reported - noting verified of course- that RD underwent a kidney transplant which his body rejected and he is now undergoing another transplant. Isn't it amazing how a rich, spoiled warlord is able to have not one, but two available kidney transplants when everyone else is on a years long waiting list? How many victims died so a morbidly obese warlord with no self control can live? (If true)

R526, who is RD? Is that a nickname for Kadyrov?

R527- Yes, just me being lazy and using his initials instead of tying his name out. 🙂

Chechen Leader Ramzan Kadyrov Vows to Send His Own ‘Underage’ Sons to Fight in Ukraine:

what does the D stand for though?

And do you have a credible link for the transplant claims?

R529- Are you responding to my post?

Obviously yes - who else?

R531- These rumors are all over the media. Please do try to keep up. Or not, no one really gaf what you think.

R532 So you don't have one? I have an issue with it because people are going around saying that he's dead, in a coma, having transplants when we know that two of those things aren't true now. I just think that you need better media literacy about what sources are reliable.

R533- Which is why I stated these were all unsubstantiated, or did you just skip over that part of my post?

No one could figure out WHO “RD” is.

I thought it was a misprint item intended for another thread.

[quote]Which is why I stated these were all unsubstantiated, or did you just skip over that part of my post?

Stop posting them as if they're fact, please, or at least provide the source.

Psyops are going on. Don't fall for them unless a credible source who checks the facts publishes them.

R536- Or you could use what common sense you have, if any, and realize like the rest of the world that any reports or statements from the fucking Kremlin will never be reliable. 🙄

That Kilo submarine they bombed is a lot more torn up than I expected

The first photos of the Ukrainian president and the First Lady from New York, where Volodymyr Zelenskyy arrived to attend the 78th session of the UN General Assembly:

Reports are that Alexander Sokolov, the commander of the Russian Black Sea fleet, was killed in a Storm Shadow strike on the Black Sea fleet headquarters in Sevastopol.

^^Viktor Sokolov, sorry.

Video without the watermark.

A Ukrainian drone takes out a Russian tank.

Putin is going to regret crossing those Armenians. They don't forget.

Britain has run out of defence equipment to donate to Ukraine and other countries should step in and shoulder more of the burden, a senior military chief has said.

The comments come after Ben Wallace revealed that he asked Rishi Sunak to spend £2.3 billion more on support for Ukraine before he resigned as defence secretary last month.

Mr Wallace warned that the UK had been overtaken by Germany as the biggest European military donor to Ukraine as he called for the 50 per cent increase on funding that the UK has committed so far.

R540 Viktor Sokolov wasn't killed. Fog of war and all but be careful of the sources you believe and post. Furthermore, I checked ignoredar and you're the same person who claimed that Kadyrov had died in a Moscow hospital which we know isn't true either. Please have better media literacy and understand what sources are reliable and which are not. I appreciate that you're on the side of the Ukrainians, as I am, but don't do this because it means people won't take you seriously.

🤦🏽‍♂️

The Gauleiter of the occupied Zaporizhzhia region, Balitsky, called for the "liberation" of the Baltic States, Finland and Poland by force of Russian arms, because these are Russian territories and "subjects of the Russian empire" live there.

Finland looks prepared.

Finland looking for some payback.

Pootz bit off way more than he could chew.

Finland should use this opportunity to take back St. Petersburg.

It would be nice to visit the Hermitage in an actually civilized country with civilized people.

What do you mean, "take back St Petersburg"? St Petersburg has never been in Finnish hands. Are you talking about the 7th century, before Russia took over the swamplands on which it was built nearly ten centuries later?

There are plenty of civilized people in Russia, particularly in St Petersburg. They created the Hermitage you are so keen to visit. How would you feel if I said "I'd love to visit the Metropolitan Museum without all those morons from Missouri and Florida that constantly clog it up"?

R551, thanks. I knew the bait would useful eventually!

[quote] There are plenty of civilized people in Russia,

There are? You could have fooled me. A great majority of Russians are still homophobic in a way that harkens back at least 100 years ago in the west.

And if you're openly homophobic the way that Russians are, you don't get to count as civilized this millennium.

[quote] There are plenty of civilized people in Russia, particularly in St Petersburg.

Which is precisely why Finland should rescue them from the barbaric clutches of the Muscovites.

All of Putinstan needs to be broken-up into feudal states, finally put their alcoholic populace to work, and stop pillaging neighboring countries for their wealth and resources.

Still?

Well, closing The Met to Floriduh man and Missery woman so us civilized folk could visit sounds dandy to me.

This is totally, totally unconfirmed. But there are reports that Putin suffered a major heart attack. If wishes were horses…

Again. Totally unconfirmed.

R558 - one can only hope!

One of these days, it might be true. I don't know if today is that day.

yeah, that's not a good source. I would wait for a good source before posting these claims now because I've heard sooo many of them now.

R561, that’s not the original source. I was going thru Twitter and saw it at that site. A lot of outlets are reporting it, they’re basing it on a Telegraph post of someone who supposedly has inside info. But yeah, unconfirmed.

R562 Reliable outlets like NYT? Nope, the shitty ones like the Express. And it's Telegram, not Telegraph. It's a social media site. "Believed to be run by a former Kremlin insider" - Believed, not confirmed. And former, not current. People really need better media literacy :(

R563, I said it was unconfirmed. But it’s being reported by a lot of outlets. I posted it here so people were aware. This is DL, not the NYT, “gossip” is in the description of the website. This is gossip.

And stupid autocorrect corrected my spelling. Boo.

R564 Let me guess, you eat up all those CDAN blind threads as well. There's good gossip from people who would credibly know and there's fake gossip from people who are highly likely fantasists, just telling people what they *want* to hear. It's dumb to buy into that. To be a truly good gossip, you ought to be more discerning.

Can you people please stop arguing and get me a defibrillator?

R565, it’s a fucking gay gossip website. What part of gossip do you not get? And for that matter, what the fuck are you doing on a gay gossip message board if you have such distant for gossip? If it were credible it wouldn’t be called gossip, it would be called news. Geez.

Sorry Poots at r566, all our defibrillators are being used. You say there’s one over there? No, that’s a penis pump, dear.

I’ve fallen and I can’t get up!

R567 It's just embarrassing. You realize that relying on a random anonymous Telegram account is akin to believing one of DL's many trolls who make things up (without further verification). Like I said, there's good gossip from sources you know know the people involved and have been reliable in the past, and bad gossip that's just made-up by attention seekers. It's especially pertinent in a politics/news thread which isn't as flippant as celeb stuff. You can't expect people to not challenge this.

About that Telegram 'General SVR' account:

[quote]The General SVR Telegram account, with more than 390,000 followers across three accounts, is a major purveyor of health rumors about Putin. But as experts have told Insider — you should view its claims skeptically. Purporting to be run by current and former members of the Russian Foreign Intelligence Service, or SVR, it regularly pumps out appealingly detailed behind-the-scenes accounts.

[quote]Aric Toler, a New York Times reporter who used to work for the respected investigative outlet Bellingcat, said last year that the account uses "made-up sources," and advised people to ignore it. Two further Russian media experts also told Insider they do not consider it to be a serious source. The account spread the wild claim, last December, that Putin had fallen down the stairs and pooped himself (another story that scored a Kremlin denial). It also said that Putin planned to undergo cancer surgery last May, and to temporarily hand over power; and that he had a coughing fit in September ahead of announcing a partial mobilization of reserve troops in Ukraine.

The Kremlin laughs off the rumors, throwing its head back with a hearty Russian Bluto-laugh laugh!

[quote]"This belongs to the category of absurd information hoaxes that a whole series of media discuss with enviable tenacity. This evokes nothing but a smile," Peskov said.

Verb agreement, comrade ....

R571 Sadly, I think they're right on this and I think the purveyors of fake troll-created 'gossip' are doing a disservice because when people see it not happening, they won't take anything seriously. So that's why quality news won't report this shit.

R569, who said anything about relying on these rumors? I think I said about 10 times that this was unconfirmed. And that’s the last thing I’ll say on this. Geez no one asked you to believe it.

Hmmm…. Anyone surprised at this point?

So nice about that! Congratulations on your successes, dear dead Russian sirs!

So that post on Putin was not credible gossip…

^r576 is sarcasm btw.

[quote]The same Telegram channel previously alleged that the Kremlin used body doubles as the warmonger faded away in hiding. The channel claimed that body doubles were used to conduct phone calls with global leaders — and one was even sent to meet with Chinese leader Xi Jinping.

Well you coulda fooled me!

Radar Online is total trash. They also claimed back in July that the 'mafia' tried to take Putin out three times - twice with grenades and once "taking out 12 members of his staff". Total bullshit that hasn't since been verified. (See R345.)