Help with newly acquired insomnia

You may find this thread of interest.

Go for a sleep study.

Hello OP,

I'm so sorry for your predicament. There is almost nothing worse than not being able to sleep. My father had this problem, and so do I. Dad tried everything over-the-counter: melatonin, valerian, etc. Nothing worked, for me either. There is nothing worse than waking up at 4:30 and just feeling the sleep leaving you, knowing you will be zonked-out-tired when it's time for work.

The only thing that has worked reliably fir me is Ambien. I get 5 MG and cut it in half. There is nothing like the feeling of actually falling asleep and waking up even slightly refreshed.

I pray the best for you, OP.

We use a sound machine, too. We got it several years ago for a dog that would bark when he heard coyotes, to cover the yipping. Now we're hooked.

Until you get this sorted out by a doctor, OP, try Unisom (doxylamine) 25 mg tablets. The pills are scored so try breaking one in half and see how it affects you.

Safe to take and a good stopgap until you get to the root of your insomnia. Unisom has saved my life.

Exercise OP. If you exercise a lot you'll fall hard and fast to sleep,

OP: I'm 62 (will be 63 in Sept) and I am in the same predicament as you. I NEVER had trouble sleeping - and now, if I get 3-4 hours of sleep in a row, I feel lucky! Getting old sucks - and then you die! I tried a few meds - but they are addictive and so I stopped. I'm just trying to get as much sleep as I can, when I can.

Take a yoga class especially in the evening before bed. You’ll sleep like log.

I’m in the same boat, Op. I can fall asleep pretty easy but cannot stay asleep. . No RX has made a difference about me staying asleep.

I also recommend doing a sleep study. I did one once. They attached wires to me and I slept overnight while they monitored me.

Thanks for your comments and suggestions. I will give them all a try. I am a new poster here and you all are a great group.

My cat purrrrrrs me to sleep every night.

Sound machine and Zzzquil

OP, I have the same problem

I've read that suddenly acquiring this particular kind of sleep disturbance later in life (waking up in the middle of the night and falling back asleep) can be a sign of thyroid issues. You may want to have your levels checked, OP.

Are you under any stress, OP? I find I have bouts with insomnia when I am more stressed than usual.

Are you using up a lot of your energy during the day? If you're not, maybe that's why you're not sleeping.

I hope you can sort it out. I hate dealing with insomnia because I love to sleep and it's hard to get through the day without a restful sleep.

R11 OP, I empathize. A lot of us are in the same boat as you. For me it started to get really bad around age 45 (I'm 50 now). I know people are said to need less sleep as they age, but this is not that, because I do not wake up feeling refreshed. I assume it's some sort of andropause glitch, and it fucks with every area of life.

Okay, so having tried dozens of things (including benzos) I've found the following things legitimately useful:

2000 mg Tryptophan (the amino acid that makes you sleepy on Thanksgiving - it actually makes me feel sleepy about 45 minutes later;

Lavender pills - yeah, lavender oil in a pill! They sell it on Amazon. It calms the nervous system really nicely

750 mg Magnesium. It relaxes the nervous system and musculature.

Ashwaganda - an herb that regulates cortisol and calms the nervous system

Benadryl if the other stuff isn't making the magic happen.

Lemon Balm herbal supplement is subtle but works well synergystically with the other stuff and I can tell the difference when I run out. (Double what the recommended dose is)

soothing music; exercising during daylight hours; warm bath; turning off lights an hour before bedtime yadda yadda

Ear plugs. Wearing ear plugs puts me in a cocoon inside of myself and I feel more restful when I wear them.

Xanax worked to get me to sleep but not stay asleep, and it's addictive. You will have intense rebound if you run out. And you build a tolerance - slippery slope.

Ambien worked amazingly well when I used it twenty years ago temporarily when I had an itchy rash that kept me up all night. But all the stuff I've heard about it since then about people sleepwalking and sleep DRIVING, and the long-term cognitive risks, have kept me from using it during this chapter of my life. Melatonin can cause a hangover where you still feel sleepy all day the next day. Valerian is useless.

Finally, I have found that if I am in resistance to being awake, of course my adrenaline will start to rise and then I'm just lying there frustrated. So I'm working on leaning into the experience of being awake but still, and allowing my mind to wander freely, sort of like meditation. And I've surprised myself by actually falling back to sleep sometimes. Not every time, but sometimes. And I tend to feel more rested than if I've been lying there angry, or getting on my phone out of boredom, or gettting up and being generally restless. I am toying with the idea of trusting my brain and body, and just leaning into whatever it's deal is rather than being at war with it. It's not a solution, but it has reduced my frustration around the situation a lot, and again, it's been interesting to realize that I have at least the capacity to fall back to sleep. Before, I would just be lying there angry and I'd invariably end up reading gossip on my stupid screen in the dark, and then start the day feeling shattered.

If you are ruminating or looping, sit up and write it in a journal. Make a deal that once you've written down your thoughts, you won't think about any of it anymore until the next day.

More than anything, make sure you are getting enough fresh air, sunlight, water and movement. You're an organism. View yourself as an organism and focus on the basics of keeping an organism in homeostasis.

If you're only developing this problem in your 60s then I'm jealous. I've had sleep issues since my 20s. I've used ambien for years, but just heard about a new drug called quviviq that you might want to look into.

You could try cognitive behavioral therapy, although I found it made my insomnia *worse* because it made me more stressed about not sleeping. What I found helped instead was to read a little in bed each night so that I began to associate the bed with relaxation instead of anxiety. I also took 2.5mg of ambien every night (the smallest dose I felt would be effective) and then weened myself off of it by taking it 7 days/wk, 6 days/wk, 5day/wk, etc. I also recently started listening to "brown noise" at night, which doesn't work 100% of the time but does seems at least somewhat helpful.

R15 thank you for that tip, that is very interesting. My doctor wants me to come back and do blood work to check my thyroid. That would make sense then with the sleep challenges I've acquired the past few years.

R19 You're very welcome. Keep us updated with your doctor's findings. I'd be interested to know.

Lunesta 3 mg

If you think there's a chance you are depressed, that is something to consider.

As with most DL questions the answer is PILLS.

Or a REALLY good butt-fuck, R23.

A trip for some treats at Edna’s Edibles might just be the ticket.

I'll endorse several things shared already. I used to wake up in the middle of the night and not be able to sleep again. Here are things that helped me.

Exercise - even just walking. The more distance you walk, the better you'll sleep.

Breathing exercise... stretching/yoga loosening the spine and then breathe deeply from the bottom of your spine up all the way to your head. Hold it briefly, exhale slowly.

CBD - ideally "full spectrum" with just that .03 THC to grease the wheels. CBD is much more effective for some than herbal teas, Ambien, Benadryl, Melatonin, or other things people take.

Butch up. Become an alpha top. And find a young man with daddy issues.

It's a full time job being daddy. Hard work.

But you will sleep. Trust me.

Sleeping pills op sleeping pills

Please, OP. Do not use drugs to sleep. FWIW, Ambien is now very difficult to get by prescription. Yes, it works for a while but then it stops working. You fall asleep at 11 and wake up at 3 or 4 AM and need more. It happens to everyone I've known. You also become VERY addicted. I have broken Ambien addiction twice now.. It's not pretty, it's hard to get through. If you exercise enough during the daytime you should be able to fall asleep with no problem. If you have a very physical job like construction, a waiter, a coach, etc. you should be able to get to sleep. Stay AWAY from Ambien, it is poison and you will regret the decision to start using. If you really feel like you need something, take melatonin and read a boring magazine or book at bedtime. Do not use your computer either. The screen lighting can cause sleeplessness.

OP, when I struggle with insomnia and try not to rely on sleep aids, I think of fun lists that relax me and bring me happiness. I think of places I want to visit, or my favourite albums of all time, or which Criterion Blu-Rays I want in my collection. Nothing stressful like bills or tasks I need to do that may get my heart and mind racing, but things that relax me and make me smile.

Magnesium at night Vitamin D Adrenal herb supplement

Medical marijuana helps me sleep all through the night. I don’t know where you are, OP, but even Texas has MMJ (I try to get the word out because a lot of Texans don’t know that). See if that’s an option in your state. You don’t need a lot.

I tried Ambien but the long-term side effects are too risky, and after awhile, I started waking up in the night, anyway. I sleep so much better now- I’m much less anxious and impatient that I used to be— I didn’t realize lack of quality sleep was affecting me so much.

A lot of the suggestions here are good: vitamin D, fresh air, magnesium glycinate. Lion’s mane mushroom capsules helped me somewhat before I got my mj prescription.

And if all else fails, the Underwhelmed thread is always available.

Drink plenty of water before going to bed, eat no sodium, then pee. Being dehydrated with too much sodium in your system will make you snore and not rest deeply. Sleep on your left side of the body.

If you have to wake up to pee again, then go pee. But just try to remember what you have dreamed before you wake up as much as possible, and then come back to sleep, and continue your dream from there, you will go back to sleep easily again.

Another reason to be wary of sleeping aids for older people:

[quote] Prescription Sleep Meds May Up Risk of Dementia by 79% in White Seniors

I always sleep better in the fall, winter, and spring because it's easier to keep the bedroom naturally colder. I wake up more often in the middle of sleep in the summer because it's harder to stay asleep when it's warmer in the bedroom.

There are lots of studies on how sleeping in cold, dark bedroom can help fight insomnia. The video at link summarizes some of the research..

Sex with a stranger

Maybe you should try embracing the new pattern. Don't fight it. Get up for a little while. Do something quiet and non-stimulating like reading a book in low light. And actual book, though, no screens. Get a drink of water. Let your bed cool off for a half an hour or so. As soon as your eyes get a little heavy, just go lay down again. Try to keep your mind clear of thoughts like, "I'll never get back to sleep now." or "I only have three more hours to sleep!" Just get tired again and lay back down in a cool bed in a dark bedroom with some sort of fan on.

When Judy couldn't sleep she made international calls. They were helpful.

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Booze

I also recently developed this split sleep pattern, and I do what r38 says, I get up and do something. I had to change my sleep schedule so that I go to bed 2 hours earlier than usual, but I don't take any sleep medications when I first go to bed. When I get up after 3-4 hours, I take my sleep meds then (half of a Unisom and 2mg melatonin), then I start a load of laundry or something, then read in bed. Put the laundry in the dryer and go back to bed, which by then has been about an hour, and read some more, and at about the 2-hour mark I'm ready to lie down and sleep until the alarm goes off in 4-5 hours.

It's not optimal but I do not want prescription sleep medication.

White noise generator and/or a fan helps me.

Also, and some may caution against this, my earbuds. There are numerous Youtuber's that specifically tell spooky stories or true crime stories in a soothing voice set to falling rain background sounds to help you nod off.

If the air is too still and it's so quiet I can hear a pin drop, that's typically what makes it hard for me to fall asleep since I'm a bit neurotic. That's one of the things I love about visiting NYC. The background noise of the hustle and bustle of the city helps me sleep big time.

Have you tried listening to this

I had a similar problem a couple of years back. Almost every night I woke up at around 4am, couldn't sleep until around six and then was completely tired and exhausted at seven when I was supposed to wake up. Turns out I had, subconsciously, convinced myself that my recently deceased mother must have died around that time in her sleep and that's why I would wake up and had difficulties sleeping.

I had to change my sleeping schedule for a while and not go to bed until 1 or 2am to sleep through 4am in order to get that out of my system and use breathing techniques and mediation to clear my head before going to sleep. I still wake up sometimes, after pretty disturbing nightmares, pondering what I just dreamt, but I can go back to sleeping much faster thanks to my acquired methods of clearing my head through breathing exercises and mediation.

LOL. Sorry, I meant meditation, of course. Don't know how I managed to type mediation, twice, without noticing it.

Have you tired a weighted blanket? I got one that weighs about 20lbs with an open weave so that they don't add any heat. The extra weight is kind of like having someone hug you that you can push aside when you are done with them. I sleep like a baby when I use it. Partner not happy about it though.

It could be sleep apnea.

The human body is not built to get 8 hours of straight sleep. It's normal to wake up several times in the night.

You can't turn on lights or phones or anything when it happens, though.

And if you start to freak out that you woke up and now you'll be awake all night, then you're doomed.

I'll say it again:

Sound machine plus weighted blanket = good sleep according to Stanford University sleep studies.

There are claims that one sleep cycle takes around 90 minutes, which means - in theory - that you don't feel well rested when you have not completed your latest sleep cycle. You could have gone through half a dozen sleep cycles and yet feel bad and groggy when you didn't complete the last one.

Don't dismiss a change of mattress.

I just got a super plush one: found it too hot to sleep on, but then put down on top a blanket, plus a sheepskin underblanket, then the mattress protector, and it's like a cloud. It's impossible to stay awake.

R51 That sounds freaking amazing. I'm inspired to try something like this

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an update- I wanted to thank you all with your many suggestions re. my insomnia. New pillows, sheets, darkened shades, magnesium and herbal supplements have truly helped. My insomnia has been greatly reduced. You all have been very kind to offer suggestions.

OP.

Just smoke copious amounts of pot, silly.

I have a similar problem with waking up after 4-5 hours of sleep. here are some pointers that work for me:

Do not use your cell phone for at least 2 hours before bedtime, the blue light that emanates messes with your circadian rhythm. Also 2 hours before bed turn off all your lights and use a lamp with a red light bulb. Read about 20-30 minutes before bed, or watch only light entertainment tv shows or s sitcom episode. Also take a magnesium supplement 1 hour earlier.

In the morning when you wake up try to get natural light early after you get up. Try to avoid anything with caffeine after lunch. Have as light a dinner as possible.

Sometimes it is numerous factors adding up to sleeping issues rather than just one factor.

Try transendental meditation 5 minutes before bed. It works like magic

Oh that’s what you call it

Try counting sheeple.

This is a normal part of aging from what I was led to understand. Every old person in my life has woken up at the crack of dawn and gone to bed after Wheel of Fortune and a very early dinner.

I have the same issue as OP and others above-- I can fall asleep but can't stay asleep. I am linking to a video of Tibetan bowls that runs for 12 hours so if you wake up it is a little easier to fall back asleep.

Try a magnesium supplement.

CALM is a good magnesium supplement if you don't want to take capsules. The raspberry lemon is good.

When I stopped taking sleeping pills, it was miserable. About week later, or maybe two weeks, I slept for 12 hours. Since then I sleep about 9 hours a night. It was like I hadn’t slept in years.

I recommend an IV drip of propofol.

The last good sleep I got was during a colonoscopy in 2018 when I was given propofol. I now get why Michael Jackson had Dr Murray on standby.

Find a book, not an e-book, that totally bores you and begin reading.

Here’s a method I use not stated above. Take a hot shower. Lay down to sleep in a cool room and bed. The body sometimes responds to that temp drop by allowing sleep to occur. It works for me about 3/4 of the time. I often sleep better in a cooler almost cold environment.

What happens is after a hot shower your body begins a cooling down process which is conducive to a positive sleep situation.

Gus and Goldie

Isn’t he from West Side Story?