THEATRE GOSSIP #516: "THE PIE SHOP HAS TO BE ABOVE THE MEAT PARLOR" EDITION

Broadway Grosses Analysis: Parade Rises Above the Haters and Plays to Sold-Out Crowds in 1st Week

Wasn't Len only 39 when he played Sweeney? He looked much older. Maybe Josh moisturizes a lot more than Len did back in the day.

R3 Len had fucked many septic pussies.

Bravo, OP. I was wondering if anyone was going to use that title proposed in the last thread and worried they wouldn't in favor of something lesser. Well done.

Extra points for including the "Edition."

Shouldn't it be "meat PARLOUR?"

Speaking of set pieces not in place (mentioned in the previous thread):

There was a story about the previews of Sweeney Todd. A piece of the set fell while Angela Lansbury was singing “Nothing’s Gonna Harm You.” She didn’t miss a beat of the song when it happened.

Did this really happen?

When I was in grade school, the library had these book sales. I think that the books that were sold had a lot of made up stuff. For example, in the one about Lucille Ball they implied that the Hollywood episode where she catches the putty nose on fire was an accident and not planned.

I think I read the Sweeney Todd set crash in one of those books.

Nothing's gonna harm you.

BANG!

The bridge falling didn't happen during previews. It happened after the show had already opened.

R6 reminds me of Sondheim noting that the joke in "A Little Priest" about not knowing if the politician will "run" fell flat in London because there, candidates "stand" for election.

[quote]Broadway Grosses Analysis: Parade Rises Above the Haters and Plays to Sold-Out Crowds in 1st Weeker

Neo-Nazis are now "haters"? Like the terrible people on Twitter who say nasty things about Britney?

I can't believe the original Sweeney Todd with Angela Lansbury played in the huge Gershwin Theatre where Wicked plays today. I bet they had a a hard time filling up the seats after awhile. It's not exactly the type of musical that tourists want to see.

The Nazis had no issues with the pederast being glorified over on 52nd Street? And I ain't talking' Ramin.

R7, what was adlibbed was Lucy sticking her nose in the coffee. The rest was always supposed to happen. In later years, Lucy preferred to say the nose on fire was an accident, but it wasn’t.

Whatever happened to the “class system” tapestry that gets pulled down at the beginning of Sweeney? It should be hanging in the Broadway Museum.

Coupla things:

Was Lucy's rubber nose just supposed to go on burning until her false eyelashes caught on fire?

All new productions of Broadway musicals get at least 2 full weeks of tech rehearsals with the actors and often an extra week before that without the actors for just the lighting designer and set designers so a piece of scenery missing by the time previews begin would be truly unprofessional and unforgiveable.

There's a lot of things that should be hanging in that Broadway museum that never will. Producers don't want to pay astronomic costs for storage so most scenery and props are either given away or thrown out if a show isn't going to tour. It's shocking, I suppose.

From the Playbill article in the previous thread about the new tranny artistic director at the Rattlestick...

[quote] Davis previously served as artistic director of Chicago's American Theater Company. But, the theatre company shut down after experimental programming was followed by a decline in box office revenue. Despite the outcome, Davis remains proud of the work he accomplished there.

Say bye-bye to the Rattlestick.

Gang what we really need to spruce up Broadway is a first class production of “A Chorus Line” starring Karen Ziemba

The new Time Out Magazine has Josh and Annaleigh on the cover.

The subtitle (not pictured) reads: Josh Groban and Annaleigh Ashford star in the slasher musical Sweeney Todd.

I guess using the term “slasher” is designed to appeal to a specific type of audience?

When is SLIH going to throw in the towel and close? It's been selling only 76% for the last two weeks. Business will only get worse as more competition opens in the coming months.

R20 Scream 7 - tagline, Sweeney makes them SCREAMMMMMM.

[quote] “It takes a brilliant mind like Annaleigh’s to bring the humor while also keeping it grounded and keeping the audience surprised and excited,” says Groban.

Are they fucking?

BDF

Groban sounds excellent on the clips circulating Tumblr. Though the tempo for the 'Johanna Quartet' is WAY too fast. His 'Epiphany' is quite impressive for a 1st preview.

While I thought he was all miscast, I'd be only too delighted to be proven wrong here. Maybe not the ideal bass-baritone we're accustomed to, but no less winning.

Fisher does indeed sound like the weak link though.

R25 Fisher is really fucking tiresome. he got alot of good press after that live Grease, but has never really delivered on the promise.

I was in Jordan Fisher's first show. (He played Chulalungkorn in The King and I in Birmingham, AL).

[quote]All new productions of Broadway musicals get at least 2 full weeks of tech rehearsals with the actors and often an extra week before that without the actors for just the lighting designer and set designers so a piece of scenery missing by the time previews begin would be truly unprofessional and unforgiveable.

Thanks for carrying this over from the previous thread, r16. The claim from there that scenery was often missing during previews was quoted twice, but in decades of opening shows on Broadway, I never saw that happen once.

[quote]There was a story about the previews of Sweeney Todd. A piece of the set fell while Angela Lansbury was singing “Nothing’s Gonna Harm You.” She didn’t miss a beat of the song when it happened. Did this really happen?

I don't know about that one, r7, but Natalia Makarova was injured during the pre-Broadway run of On Your Toes.

Makarova mentioned getting smacked in the head in her hilarious Tony speech.

Adding new set pieces to a show during previews would normally be grounds for institutionalizing the director for "poses risk of harm to self or other" reasons.

*risk of harm to self or others*

Fuck off.

Thanks for that. I'd forgotten that Natalia Makarova won, r29. On Your Toes was a wonderful show. She was a wonderful woman to work with. Funny as hell.

Here's a clip from the London production. Wish Lara Teeter from the Broadway production had made that jump.

A question about semi-current news? Is Tom Hewitt still in Hadestown?

Hot tall guy is in Sweeney Todd. Anyone had him?

Was Len Cariou better than George Hearn? Curious for those who were there at the time to comment on that. I wasn’t there, but obviously the LA video is the forever “documentation”. While the OBCR is wonderful, the NY Phil (also with Hearn) is my favorite audio recording, as well. Who is the definitive Sweeney?

[quote]Was Len Cariou better than George Hearn? Curious for those who were there at the time to comment on that.

I'm going to say yes. I enjoyed Hearn, but Cariou was very good.

I wanted to love Cerveris, but I really didn't like that production in general.

[quote]I wanted to love Cerveris, but I really didn't like that production in general.

Probably because it sucked.

^Well...yeah, r37, that was my point. I don't care for Doyle's work at all.

It was extra silly because everyone [italic]but[/italic] Cerveris played an instrument, when he was likely the only musician on the stage. When he isn't working, he's playing in a band somewhere, most often in New Orleans.

Someone in the previous thread jokingly (I assume) suggested Jinkx Monsoon could play Lady Chablis in the new musical of "Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil".

It won't happen but Jinkx has played a black role in the past. She was in "Rent" in Seattle and played the Angel character.

It wasn't a good production.

Thanks for the link r20. I particularly love this quote:

[quote]Ashford worked with Sondheim, who died in 2021, during her run as Dot in Sunday in the Park with George, and she feels his spirit in every word she sings. “When we hit a pun, I can see him laughing on his couch while he was writing,” she says. “He delighted in the details. So I’m constantly trying to find new details for him.”

[quote] It won't happen but Jinkx has played a black role in the past. She was in "Rent" in Seattle and played the Angel character.

Angel’s black?

Len Cariou was definitely much better than Hearn. Hearn made it look hard, Cariou made it look effortless.

R34 -- Oh, I'm so glad to know Timothy Hughes is in Sweeney Todd. Hot tall guy, indeed!

[Quote] When he isn't working, he's playing in a band somewhere, most often in New Orleans.

Playing in a band is working unless he just does it for kicks

Carrie, you seemed more deeply, essentially sad. Hearne seemed more fundamentally angry. Hearns performance felt “bigger“ more like Lansbury‘s.

*Cariou seemed

It was a production directed by John Doyle, so all of the actors played musical instruments!

yes, Im sure the new artistic director at Rattlestick, who ran a theatre in Chicago that no ones ever heard of and who ran it out of business with bad artistic decisions was , after an exhaustive national wide search, the absolute best person for the position. Im sure being trans had nothing to do with it

I see that Jesse Tyler Ferguson is in the new [italic] Cocaine Bear [/italic] movie. Is there, by any chance, a scene where the bear clamps his jaw around Jesse's thigh and then begins to chomp, faster and faster, and then relentlessly, until bit of pale, freckled skin, orange hair, and blood are flying this way and that while Jesse screams out in that hateful sing-songy voice, louder and louder, and the other folks hear him but don't do anything? Anything like that?

No but the Bear plays a piccolo.

As I recall, Hearn had the better voice, Cariou was the better actor.

Hearn sang it well, but I always thought he was screaming from page four. Cariou was more of a slow build with a really intense, frightening edge that I haven't felt from anyone else in the role. If you were plotting revenge for 15 years, you may be very methodical and calculating about it, and I think that's what Cariou was playing. (It's also what is said about the character in the opening number).

Hearn screamed his way through La Cage, too. I probably saw four different ZaZa's during the run and he was easily the worst. Mandy should have won the Tony that year.

I need Timothy Hughes inside me quite deeply.

Who was the best ZaZa, R53? The best Albin?

The way Hearn hangs his jaw when he sings bugs me.

Sorry, I meant Georges.

[quote]I need Timothy Hughes inside me quite deeply.

I suspect Timothy Hughes would like someone quite deeply inside him as well.

R15, why hang a graphic that if it does still exist, has been mouldering for 40 years in a warehouse? Especially when anyone can access it online.

The Beehive of Britain was really effective in the original Sweeney Bway production.

I was a young teen when I saw the show and I remember staring at it onstage before the lights went down and the show started--at which point the whistle blew and they ripped the Beehive down! I didn't know theatre could be like that.

George Hearn worked best as Sweeney beside his original Lovett, Dorothy Loudon, their shared strengths and energies paired very well together. Cariou and Lansbury were the PERFECT pair and were blissful together, Len’s simmering and terrifying Todd was expertly melded with Angie’s defining turn in the role. That OBC will never be bettered.

Casey Likes was announced to play Marty McFly on Broadway in the Back to the Future musical. That would almost get me there to see it. But not quite. I'm surprised they have two white leads.

Cain's Warehouse! Where scenery goes to die!

Lucy had a candle wick inside that putty nose so it would stay lit.....but the flame got a bit high and yes the ad lib was Lucy sticking her nose into the cup of coffee. Desi's reaction to the high flame is real - but Lucy saved the day!

[quote] The Beehive of Britain was really effective in the original Sweeney Bway production.

It also said from the start what Hal Price thought the show was [italic] about [/italic]. The new one is about doing Sweeney Todd again and doesn't have another thought in its head.

But how would the Lucy scene have ended if Lucy hadn't stuck her nose into the coffee, r63?

I cannot believe this trivia has not, at least to my memory, been covered and answered in the multiple and monthly Lucy/Desi, ILL, Vivian Vance and Lucy/Mame threads over the past few years.

Hmmmmm

R9, I was there. It was the Saturday matinee before the opening. The bridge slowly started to descend on Len and Angela just as Angela was singing the line “Nothing’s gonna harm you…” We sat around for about fifteen minutes, the bridge was back in place, Len yelled out “One more time!” and they continued on from where they were before.

Just a few years earlier I was at the first preview of Chicago and the thing which lifted Chita from below the stage was broken and we were sent home at intermission. When the Sweeney Todd incident happened I started to think I was a jinx. No, I never went to see Spider-Man: The Musical.

The smartest thing those theaters can do is cancel those productions. No one wants to see them. Slave Play was pretty much empty during its LA run.

The late theatre critic Howard Kissel wrote about that bridge incident at Sweeney. I think he remarked that the bridge hit the stage with a loud sound, and audience members really didn't know whether or not it was part of the show, given all that they had experienced up to that point. Does that jibe with your memory, R67?

That clip of Groban singing is good, not great.

I'm pretty shocked at the amount of advertising behind SHUCKED. I've gotten two pretty elaborate mailers, the television ads, and ton's of web banners are overwhelming. And they say nothing. No insight into the show, except that it is probably going to be annoying.

Keene Curtis was easily the best ZaZa/Albin. He was sublime in the musical numbers and heartbreaking when he's pushed aside in favor of the boys birth mother. I saw him opposite Keith Michel's George which was perfection in every way especially vocally.

Sutton is teaching fitness class

[quote]I'm pretty shocked at the amount of advertising behind SHUCKED. I've gotten two pretty elaborate mailers, the television ads, and ton's of web banners are overwhelming.

There are also ads for it all over the subway. They are certainly giving it the old college try.

Isn't that how it's supposed to be done?

"Will leave audiences shitting corn in the aisles!"

Corn?

Regarding "pulling" one's play for any issue...it certainly is a place of privilege to be able to pull your play from production.

I'm sorry, but shit happens in workplaces all the time and probably always will. If you are just collecting all your marbles and walking away is that really solving anything? Or is it just being an attention whore?

GO SHUCKED!

If you delve into these incidents with playwrights pulling their plays, most are vague stories with few details. I know of 2 such stories where the scandals would make your eyes roll because they had nothing to do with race or actual mistreatment. They were theaters who bent over backwards as to cater to our new highly sensitive workplaces. But the people involved weren't happy about something and cried racism or "misogynoir". But of course the social media warriors just bought the accusations at face value and attacked the theaters and their leadership.

I don't understand SHUCKED marketing, either. If the show was inspired by HEE-HAW, say so. I remember reading this originally. Is it no longer true?

I may not have loved HEE-HAW, but that thing ran on TV for 30 years. They may as capitalize on the brand recognition.

I can't imagine anyone remembers Hee Haw fondly who would buy a ticket to see a Broadway show based on it. I'm in my early 50s and I only remember being tortured by it as a little kid on Saturday nights because my grandparents watched it and Lawrence Welk on TV every week. I grew up in the South and older people liked watching it. I thought it was corny as fuck and I was 8.

A Hee Haw Musical would fare better on the road in the south and midwest, not disguised as a musical comedy about corn in New York City.

[quote] I can't imagine anyone remembers Hee Haw fondly who would buy a ticket to see a Broadway show based on it. I'm in my early 50s and I only remember being tortured by it as a little kid on Saturday nights because my grandparents watched it and Lawrence Welk on TV every week. I grew up in the South and older people liked watching it. I thought it was corny as fuck and I was 8.

Wait, Shucked is a Hee Haw musical???? I'll take that off the list

I think so far the only thing going for SHUCKED is the name, because of the obvious rhyme. No idea if its a musical, who's in it, if it even has a plot.

Hee Haw night was torture.

Back in 2015, when it did a tryout in Dallas starring Justin Guarini, it was called "Moonshine: The Hee-Haw Musical." So somewhere along the way, they decided it was better to bury the Hee-Haw origins.

From Hee-Haw:

"Whenever I'm down in the dumps, I get a new dress."

"Is *that* where you get them?"

R69, Len Cariou has said in interviews that the catwalk, or bridge, collapsed and fell quite slowly, which was why he was able to steer Lansbury and himself out of the way. He also said that, after it fell, the stagehands just pushed it to the back of the stage so the show could continue. I guess it wasn't re-hung above the stage until the following performance.

I’m enjoying the shocked campaign, but I wish it didn’t begin and end with corn. Do they not have anything else to say?

I thought the song they released was nice. Slight, but nice...

Here's a clip from Shucked:

Are any of you members of Play-by-Play in NYC? Would you recommend the service?

(I realize the first rule of Fight Club is that we don't discuss Fight Club. But still.)

I was with Theatremania Gold Club but I'm giving up my membership, as their selections haven't been very good. It used to be much better.

Question: So the opening number for NYNY was written for a "Hamilton" off-shoot? Anyone know?

I bet Lulu Roman is PISSED that a black drag queen is playing her. After her drug abuse and jail sentence, she found Jesus.

I watched a few old Hee Haw episodes recently, and in her defense, they did a lot of mean spirited jokes about her being fat. I’d probably turn to drugs too if I had to joke about how ugly I was.

Hearn was a horrible Zaza-he did everything to play against any femininity which totally went against character. Zaza should not be the butcher person on stage--but since he was straight--he was so brave it taking on the role

My parents would choose suicide over LW or Hee-Haw. But my best friend Rob’s parents were faithful viewers, so this polite young man watched as well whenever I was over at their house…torture!

How much money do no-name leads make in a Broadway show? For instance, the leads in Phantom of the Opera, Wicked, Six, Moulin Rouge, etc.

It's all negotiable and every situation is different.

I would imagine once NY NY and CAMELOT start previews it will siphon business away from SLIH since it seems like the same audience

That "clip" from SHUCKED again says nothing. The back of a woman going through a cornfield. I'm damn curious, could this be the next BEST LITTLE WHOREHOUSE GOES PUBLIC?

Im so sick of drag-it was cutting edge and subversive in its heyday (ie. Charles Ludlum). but now it's like Disney. That happens when it filters down to the straight community and drag queen bingo become a single woman thing. Drag is like cargo shorts--they were fun for a summer or two, but then they never went away

I'm hearing SHUCKED would love to have BEST LITTLE WHOREHOUSE'S advance...

does Andy Durand shuck his overalls in Shucked? he was surprising ripped in head Over Heels

R72, Keene was wonderful as ZaZa/Albin and he was also a wonderful man in real life.

R104 Butta face.

[quote] Keene was wonderful as ZaZa/Albin and he was also a wonderful man in real life.

Didn't he proposition young Robby Benson backstage at The Rothschilds?

[quote]So the opening number for NYNY was written for a "Hamilton" off-shoot? Anyone know?

I don't know, but I do know that it sounds like it was written in a very different style from the song "New York, New York," and it's a style that seems way too modern for the 1940s period setting.

R107 - Anthony Rapp

[quote] Zaza should not be the butcher person on stage

Sweeney is the butcher person onstage

Soo glad to see so many black cast members in a Hee-Haw musical. Way to be diverse, Broadway.

Keith Michel fucked Rudolf Nureyev.....said he wasn't "fresh."

[quote]I was a young teen when I saw the show and I remember staring at it onstage before the lights went down and the show started--at which point the whistle blew and they ripped the Beehive down! I didn't know theatre could be like that.

But was it a coup de théâtre?

When you're Rudolf Nureyev, you don't need to be fresh.

Just saw Tim Hughes at the gym. Very tall, sexy man.

I seem to remember Michael Cerveris' playing a guitar in the Doyle SWEENEY -- perhaps accompanying "Not While I'm Around"?

R115 For the love of God, tell me you presented hole?

Wait and see. When SHUCKED closes prematurely on Broadway, the national tour will be advertised as: SHUCKED; THE HEE-HAW MUSICAL.

I just remember Andy Durand's nice ass in Ink.

R118, featuring an all-black and trans cast.

[quote]Soo glad to see so many black cast members in a Hee-Haw musical. Way to be diverse, Broadway.

What does this even mean? You're complaining about diverse casting in a fucking piece of shit Hee-Haw musical?

[quote]Are any of you members of Play-by-Play in NYC? Would you recommend the service?

I used to be part of all those papering services. In the end, despite having some good stuff some of the time, most weren't worth it.

TDF has the best selection, although everything costs a bit more. Despite the restrictions about who can join, it seems that pretty much everyone can join.

[quote]NY NY-from the team that collectively brought you Steel Pier, Thou Shalt Not, The Prince of Broadway and The Scottsboro Boys. (and lest we not forget Stro's Bullets Over Broadway and Big Fish).

Why does Stro keep getting jobs when most of her shows just suck. She hit it big with The Producers, but that was because of Nathan Lane. Without him, the show's suckiness is magnified.

Stro made enough money off "The Producers" to never work again. Why can't she take the hint?

[quote]What does this even mean? You're complaining about diverse casting in a fucking piece of shit Hee-Haw musical?

Yes, because it IS a Hee-Haw musical.

Does anyone know how many musicians play on the Sweeney original cast recording? I'm pretty sure the orchestra is actually augmented -- perhaps quite dramatically over the 26 in-theatre orchestra. So, while it's exciting to get the original orchestrations back after so long, they're still not what some of us have gotten used to on the cast recording for 4 decades, right?

[quote]I can't believe the original Sweeney Todd with Angela Lansbury played in the huge Gershwin Theatre where Wicked plays today. I bet they had a a hard time filling up the seats after awhile. It's not exactly the type of musical that tourists want to see.

I was able to see it three times in 1979 because it was often on TKTS. And half-price in 1979 was pretty cheap.

[quote]Does anyone know how many musicians play on the Sweeney original cast recording? I'm pretty sure the orchestra is actually augmented -- perhaps quite dramatically over the 26 in-theatre orchestra. So, while it's exciting to get the original orchestrations back after so long, they're still not what some of us have gotten used to on the cast recording for 4 decades, right?

I'm not sure to what degree the orchestra was augmented for the original recording, but I would say it's next to impossible for anyone to hear any difference between, say, the sound of a 40-piece orchestra playing on a recording with the sound of a heavily amplified 26-piece orchestra playing live in a theater. So I don't understand your point.

Len Cariou was the *only* Sweeney Todd. All others are imposters.

R69, I don’t remember the sound of the bridge hitting the floor. I remember Len Cariou yelling “One more time!” because although I guess it brought a much needed laugh from the audience I thought it was sort of unprofessional. But I’m not a fan of Len Cariou-he was always unpleasant to deal with on the phone when I worked for his agent Clifford Stevens- so maybe I’m biased.

Cariou himself describes the bridge falling incident in this Broadway.com video (towards the end):

I appreciate the terrific presentation of that "Cheering for Me Now" video marketing the up-coming New York, New York. Is it ultimately a good idea to sell this piece as Hamilton-lite with LMM front and center, seeming like he's singing about himself? Is this going to be a new case of producers thinking you can sell The Life because Liza might show up at the curtain call to sing with her best buddy, Sam Harris? "Was Lin-Manuel there tonight?"

Are you talking about the video at R94?

That isn't a video to market NY NY. It says it was uploaded four years ago.

If you look on their website, Shucked actually has a lot of non-caucasian actors in the company. It could find an audience though in the bridge/tunnelers. Of course, the humor (such as it was) in Hee-Haw was all rooted in in a style of comedy that wont fly because everyone has to be offended and outraged and whatever-shamed by everything everywhere all at once. So, its all probably been neutered to avoid being called out on something-which is essentially a zero sum games at this point

[quote]So the opening number for NYNY was written for a "Hamilton" off-shoot? Anyone know?

I assumed he was dressed as Hamilton because the lyrics, especially the early ones, apply to the reaction to him as creator of that show. A little in-joke. But the lyrics also apply to almost anyone who's gone to New York an unknown and been a success, which would seem to be the context they'll be used in for the show.

The music was surprisingly boring.

Well, Kander is in his 90s. How many composers are at the top of their game at that age?

[quote] I remember Len Cariou yelling “One more time!” because although I guess it brought a much needed laugh from the audience I thought it was sort of unprofessional.

I would imagine that the most unprofessional thing at that moment was the bridge falling onto the stage

r130, I was actually a client of Clifford Stevens in the 1980s. Maybe we chatted on the phone? Do you remember an agent at STE named John Comerford? Clifford would often pawn my projects off on John. Whatever happened to John? I lost track of him after I left the agency.

FUNNY GIRL closing in September. All leads extending till then. No new Fanny!

Lea will surely play the LA engagement on tour.

She'll play the gig in Peoria if need be.

It will be interesting to see if Lea's rehabilitation, or whatever you want to call it, leads to film and TV work, or if she just got REALLY lucky that she was given the chance with FUNNY GIRL. I think if that hadn't happened, there's a good chance her career would have been over.

That’s interesting that they aren’t going to replace again. They fucked up with Beanie and should have just went with Lea from the start. She would have easily won the Tony and the musical would have been remembered as a smash hit!

Lea would be a tough act to follow. Why risk another failure a la Beanie. They'll surely sell out this summer and close on a high note. I'm assuming Lea got a nice fat raise to stick around.

Ramin begins Phantom in Italy in July. So he will not be extending.

[quote]They fucked up with Beanie and should have just went with Lea from the start.

Oh, dear.

It makes me sad that the only original thing this season seems to be Kimberly Akimbo.

I don't mind there being some revivals....but these bare bones, weak-tea revivals generate no excitement for me. I'm not a big Into The Woods fan, but even I was embarrassed to see the "orchestra on the stage!" trick employed to cover for the lack of a real set and costumes that simple and basic. And now it looks like Sweeney's no better. But hey, call them "concerts!" and it's all good, right?

Funny Girl has one of the worst stagings ever....

Where are the talented creatives with legit vision? Why is Broadway littered with pale imitations?

Do I want to see a botched version of Some Like It Hot? No, I'm good. A redone version of New York, NY? Not particularly.

It's depressing. Even if there are 3 new original pieces on the boards that doesn't mean they're all automatically going to appeal to me.

....wish there were 6 new original shows on at all times. And then the remaining spots can be for long-running hits and revivals and jukebox or film regurgitations.

Come on Broadway.

[quote] Where are the talented creatives with legit vision?

Not being given the opportunities to show what they can do.

With off-Broadway no longer what it was and regional theaters committed to hiring “voices not being heard” there is nowhere for talented directors and writers to gain the experience needed to demonstrate their talent.

Broadway is too expensive for innovation and places like the Public Theatre (which gave us A Chorus Line and others) and New York Theatre Workshop (which gave us Rent) are no longer producing anything of interest or bringing to the front creatives with true vision.

[quote]Where are the talented creatives with legit vision? Why is Broadway littered with pale imitations?

There $eem$ to be certain factor$ limiting creative boldne$$ on Broadway.

What's the show this spring you would LEAST want to see - like if it were between that show and a root canal, you'd have to think about it? For me, it's Jess Chasten in a A Doll's House with no sets or costumes.

[quote] It makes me sad that the only original thing this season seems to be Kimberly Akimbo.

Kimberly Akimbo is not technical original, as it is an adaptation of David Lindsay-Abaire's own play (which was better). There are/were two original musicals this season, with no source material: KPOP (which lost everything that made it special in its transfer from Off-Broadway to Broadway), and Shucked.

Well shuck me, then.

None of that sounds interesting.

I don't like "country bumpkin" humor. More than enough of that on TV. And K POP? No. No thank you. I'm so not feeling it.

I suppose I should be glad for the original score of Bad Cinderella but....who cares about ANOTHER rehash of this tired fairy tale?

I thought about it the other day and so much of Andy Karl's career has been adaptations of movies - Pretty Woman, Legally Blonde, Rocky, Groundhog Day. Do you really think that's what he hoped for when he pursued this career path?

I know most things are adapted from other materials, but still.

A Chorus Line? Dreamgirls? Folliies? Are those kinds of whole cloth new concepts impossible now?

I never came to Broadway to be bored.

secret garden LA. meh

miscast. misdirected over choreographed. 11 piece thin sounding orchestra

I think Andy Karl is just happy to be working, and like some other leading men on Bway, has hopefully reconciled himself to being the best thing in a not-very-good show.

A song from SHUCKED.

I think it's pretty. Doesn't scream "musical theatre" to me, but maybe that's a good thing.

Lea will undoubtedly perform on the Tony Awards show after getting her special statuette, and that should fill the house for the summer.

I wouldn't fall into the "original musical are superior" camp. Guys & Dolls, My Fair Lady, Fiddler on the Roof, Cabaret, A Little Night Music, Sweeney Todd, Hairspray, etc., are not any worse for having been adapted from existing source material, including films. It's when the adaptations add little to nothing to the original property and are just a cash grab that it becomes depressing to me.

What has happened to Off-Broadway? Did the pandemic amplify what was already hurting the business? Is it salvageable?

[quote]Where are the talented creatives with legit vision? Why is Broadway littered with pale imitations?

R147 Many white creatives in Hollywood and Broadway were fired in the wake of the George Floyd riots in 2020 and replaced with diversity hires who don't have the skills/constitution for the jobs. Hence the crap they've been churning out lately.

r123 We saw Producers after Nathan and Matthew left, and it was just awful; The music is boring, and the big numbers fell flat.

R160. In your dreams. Or, do you have any actual research or statistics in support of your dog whistling?

R162 screams racist whenever someone points out the obvious.

R163 IS racist whenever someone points out the obvious.

[quote] Many white creatives in Hollywood and Broadway were fired in the wake of the George Floyd riots in 2020 and replaced with diversity hires who don't have the skills/constitution for the jobs.

Bullshit

You say it is obvious…ok then, I’m oblivious. Please show me where the evidence exists for your assertion. Go ahead,I’m ready for your teachable moment.

Broadway desperately needs some new CASTING directors leading the charge. Telsey and Co, Tara Rubin...they've built their careers over the last 15+ years by hiring boringly proficient CCM/NYU/Carnegie Melon grads and trying to spin them as Broadway's next stars. Look at the stars of NY NY...that's really the best we can do?

Vinnie Liff (who made a career of celebrating lots of big, quirky, diverse talents) would be spinning in his grave at some of the milquetoast people who have been given careers. And you hate to think of the big personalities who have been denied entry because they don't get sworn into one of these cliquey circles.

I was looking up some various capitalization costs the other day, and I was surprised that "Next to Normal" was capitalized at only $4 million. The similarly small-scale "A Strange Loop" had a capitalization of $10 million just a decade later. I know there are other factors accounting for the difference, but the cost of mounting a Broadway musical just keeps rising and rising, much faster than inflation.

Is "& Juliet" considered a big success?

I didn't realize it at the time, but the early 2000s were such a great time for musical comedies: The Producers, Hairspray, Full Monty, Thoroughly Modern Millie, Dirty Rotten Scoundrels, Ave Q, Legally Blonde, Spamalot, Curtains, Putnam County Spelling Bee, Drowsy Chaperone, Young Frankenstein...all within 3-4 seasons of each other. Not to mention all the revivals in that period too. While not all of them were created equal, but you could hear really tuneful, NEW traditional musical comedy scores and solid orchestras of 15 to 20+ people (even for the smaller shows).

You look at the marquees from the 2010s onwards and it begins to fall off significantly. 'Book Of Mormon' was an exception (and the subpar 'Something Rotten') but seasons ruled by lots of angsty, chamber pieces. With 4-5 piece 'bands' all sounding more or less interchangeable with one another. You had very few traditional musical comedies with any staying power (ie. long enough to successfully replace the leads and still run!) And then towards the end of the 2010s you had an onslaught of shitty movie adaptations (Tootsie, Doubtfire, Pretty Women) with awful books, tuneless scores and WEAK leads (no doubt cast by Telsey, Rubin and co). And it's only gotten worse from there.

Where are the kids today trying to evoke those tuneful Cole Porter, Jerry Herman, Gershwin scores? While I expect no one to be slave to the past, you'd hope at some composers would be inspired by it.

R161-The only thing The Producers ever had going for it were Nathan and Matthew. I didn't love it the first time I saw it with the original cast, and I loathed it when I saw it a second time with whoever the fuck was doing it. Stroman lucked out with this one. It was frequently boring, and there was nothing original about it. All it did was prove lackluster musicals only need a few big names to sell the show. That's why SLIH is tanking. They thought they could get by on Shaiman and Wittman. Big mistake.

R170 Agree, and like so many other parts of American life, theater was impacted by the continued mega-corporatization of everything and the economic crash of 2008 (as well as coronavirus).

More shows created out of existing IP and/or using prerecorded music or small groups of musicians instead of a full orchestra, etc. Cost cutting wherever possible.

[quote] I was looking up some various capitalization costs the other day, and I was surprised that "Next to Normal" was capitalized at only $4 million. The similarly small-scale "A Strange Loop" had a capitalization of $10 million just a decade later. I know there are other factors accounting for the difference, but the cost of mounting a Broadway musical just keeps rising and rising, much faster than inflation.

Valdemort is also a smarter producer, sorry to say, than Barbara Whitman and does his own general management. Does your figure include all the pre-Broadway development over several years?

Jason Danieley has a new love?

R171 -- I would argue that The Producers is a far more well-oiled machine than you give it credit. While not everyone's cup of tea, with the original cast it was a spectacular evening in the theatre. And it wasn't JUST Nathan and Matthew. Gary Beach was easily that show's MVP (especially after N and M's departure) but you also had Roger Bart, Brad Oscar and a very funny, capable ensemble.

The reason why The Producers became such a BORE after their departure had more to do with Stroman and her militant, talentless stage management. They made it a mission to turn ANY spontaneity / any vaudevillian instincts the original cast injected into the show into *set choreography* that could be replicated, gesture for gesture, inflection for inflection in every single company around the globe.

This might work well for a dance piece, but comedy is a living, breathing thing. It takes spontaneity and a certain genius in the moment for it all to work and not feel totally contrived. Stro and Co KILLED any possibility of this when they insisted every subsequent Bialystock and Bloom be carbon copies of Nathan and Matthew. This nearly drove Marty Short and Jason Alexander to walking on the LA production at one point, and caused no shortage of tension for capable performers in London, Australia and Canada. Lewis J. Stadlen (who isn't the easiest guy in the room) only got some breathing room in the part when his buddy Nathan told Stro to back off and trust him to do his thing.

Comedy can't be choreographed. And while subsequent audiences to The Producers might not know why they didn't laugh as hard as they wanted to -- they know on some level that something's off. With those subsequent replacements those side-splittingly funny moments with Nathan always felt 'unearned'.

In a normal world, Shucked would have a healthy off-Broadway run like Nunsense did.

The Fantastiks ran for decades in a tiny off-Broadway venue. In the 1970s, everybody was singing “Try to Remember”but the show never made the move to Broadway because the show depends on intimacy. Too bad Little Shop of Horrors and You’re A Good Man Charlie Brown didn’t learn that lesson. Their Broadway revivals were terrible.

When Vinnie Liff was casting there weren't 750 scripted tv series shooting across multiple platforms. Face it, the tv work pays more and is easier. Either that's what actors now aspire to right out of the gate or once they get even the slightest viability or acclaim in theatre, they never look back. Hence we get the people that are really interested in theatre-or cant get film/tv or worse, are phony celebrities (tik tokers, you tubers, American Ido rejects, Real Housewives, etc, that are hired because of how many followers they have

[r174] what an odd post. He has been with the same lady for a couple years now after Marin passed. I wonder who the new girl is? Someone on DL must know.

The economics of commercial off broadway dont work anymore (I dont understand how Little Shop is doing it). That's why it's all 4-6 week runs and not for profit companies. Investors are more likely to go with a broadway venture because the upside has bigger potential. They also wind up being given a producers credit (even though they dont actually produce anything) and can buy their Tonys with other 30 dilettantes come June. Hence, material and productions that are ideally more suited to Off Broadway are now Broadway productions

Stroman is a control freak without one spark of ingenuity in her.

R138, I don’t remember John Comerford, I worked for a brief time therearound 1985. I remember Tex Beha (she handled people on soaps like Anne Heche) and Richard Schmenner. Both were good people, so was Clifford. Len Cariou, Lauren Bacall and Marg Helgenberger stood out as sounding entitled and bitchy over the phone-“GET CLIFFORD!” I wanted to say back to Bacall “Don’t sweat it, Betty honey, your Fancy Feast residuals are in the mail.”

[quote]I wouldn't fall into the "original musical are superior" camp. Guys & Dolls, My Fair Lady, Fiddler on the Roof, Cabaret, A Little Night Music, Sweeney Todd, Hairspray, etc., are not any worse for having been adapted from existing source material, including films.

I'm sure the other poster was not referring to COMPLETELY original musicals -- i.e., those not based on any previously existing source material -- of which there have been extremely few over the decades.

R179 is correct. Watch Leonard Solloway's Broadway doc about him trying to make a (questionable) vehicle for Maurice Hines work off Broadway. The whole process is akin to shoveling shit uphill.

The 'Little Shop' off Broadway seems to be doing good business, but it has built in PR on account of it being a beloved piece of IP.

For anything else -- short of a star vehicle -- the theatre rents cost too much and the advertising + PR required to build an audience will empty half the kitty before the 1st preview.

r152 -

[quote]A Chorus Line? Dreamgirls? Folliies? Are those kinds of whole cloth new concepts impossible now?

Those particular "new concepts" have one gentlemen in common.

LITTLE SHOP has also done a consistently great job with casting and cast replacements. It's a fine little production.

At least up until Maude Apatow....

[quote] I wanted to say back to Bacall “Don’t sweat it, Betty honey, your Fancy Feast residuals are in the mail.”

Fuck that! I want to know about my Highpoint Coffee and Tuesday Mornings residuals. And why Streisand is on my ass about promoting her movie about the ugly woman who gets a boob job. “The Mirror Has Two Faces.” What kind of shit-assed title is that?

I saw the Producers twice, 1st time with Nathan and Matthew and in LA with Jason and Martin... both times were great but I could see with lesser actors, it would suck

Also the humor was very New York and very jewish. As the audiences changed, most of that humor fell flat on gentile ears.

Stro also had Mel Brooks on board when she directed The Producers

I preferred the alternate title "The Face Has Two Mirrors".

Someone just told me that Peter Marks, the Washington Post theatre critic, actually lives in New York. Is this true? It explains why he covers Broadway more than the smaller D.C. theaters.

He used to work for The Times, so it's possible.

The Mirror Has Two Noses

Here's a shirtless Keith Michell -- he was nude opposite the late (also nude) DIana Rigg in "Abelard and Heloise" on Broadway. He had a very dishy bod! It was on long before I started going to shows, but I did see Michell as a replacemet George in "La Cage aux Folles" and he was quite wonderful. He used an RP (received pronunciation) accent, possibly a bit even more upper class British, rather than his natural Australian accent, and his delicious vocal inflections sounded like they were the living proof of his OCR of Nestor in "Irma La Douce". Very good singing voice and very good-looking.

"Georges", that is

speaking of being nude on stage-Anthony DeSando (DeSantis) replaced David Eigenberg in the original Broadway production. (not sure why Dominic Fumusa didnt make the transfer). In any event--Jesse Williams couldn't hold a...um, candle to him

Nice to hear so many other confirm what we thought about how bad The Producers was without Nathan and Matthew. I would have loved to have seen Martin Short!

"The Producers" was always overrated, even when it was new and swept the Tonys. And its humor has aged like milk.

I want to love Mel Brooks, but his humor is very hit and miss, and definitely dated.

Speaking of Mel, what about those efforts to revise/revive YOUNG FRANKENSTEIN?

I don't see why it can't work as a stage musical.

Keith Michell was a TERRIFIC Don Quixote in the OLC of "Man Of La Mancha". Kiley will forever own that part with his own melodious mid-Atlantic brogue (Mary!) but Michell is truly wonderful on the expanded London cast recording.

R200 -- Mel and Stro dove back into YF during the London premiere a few seasons ago. Cutting songs, editing scenes, and generally reducing the scope and scale of the show. It played in a smaller London theater, and they tried to bring a smaller 'in one' vaudeville/burlesque energy to the piece. On the whole, it works FAR better...playing both faster and funnier. The show also doesn't try to be anything more than a B grade musical comedy confection. It embraces its shortcomings (more so than it ever did on Broadway or the US Tour) and makes for a shorter, more satisfying evening.

They just put up the revised London version at La Mirada in SoCal...no idea how it went over, but I imagine this revised version will also play far better in schools/stock use going forward.

r181, thanks for your response re STE and John Comerford. I was only with the agency briefly, 1979-1982, so we wouldn't have met or talked. I remember Richard Schmenner who was actually Comerford's ass't back then. Seems like they represented all those older lady character actors back then like Elizabeth Wilson and the rest of the cast of Mornings at 7.

But always wondered what happened to John, who was a very cordial man....feared he might have died.... but never heard a thing and have tried googling over the years.

R194. Young Keith as a viral Henry

He was, he was

[quote] Nice to hear so many other confirm what we thought about how bad The Producers was without Nathan and Matthew.

I saw the first replacement cast. They were so obviously trying to mimic the original cast --but no one can do Nathan Lane as well as Nathan Lane--so it all looked forced and stupid

Richard Kind was Richard Kind, not Nathan, and it was pretty good. At least he has his own definite schtick.

How hard to you think they begged Larry David and David Schwimmer to actually do it somewhere

That wasn't the replacement cast's fault; as others have noted, the powers that be made the replacement actors all the shtick that worked for the original cast, and gave them notes to conform if they didn't. Nathan and Matthew are particular actors, and one person's stuff doesn't work for another.

[quote] and one person's stuff doesn't work for another.

Or even the same actor. One of the original cast of A Chorus Line talked about that. Many of the original cast went to open the LA production, but he decided to stay on Broadway. He had certain moments that he had worked out with Michael Bennett. When the new stage manager came in, he kept giving the actor notes that were contrary to what he had been doing since the creation of the show.

Yeah r178 just what’s going on?

Bring me a bromo......and put some gin in it!

As R207 and other above have written, once Mel and Stro watched the show get nary a laugh with Max’s numbers during Henry Goodman’s second performance in the show, he was done for and they would never allow ANYONE to bring a bit of inspiration to the roles. It was hysterical fear, if they only allowed that talented actor to find his own comedic comfort, the show would have evolved correctly.

r205 So true...Nathan is unique talent and is not easily copied.

[quote]Young Keith as a viral Henry

Oh Dear!

but the inter tubes were much slower in the in the 16c. and microscopes had not been invented so how would we know?

Point taken—I blame DL WEBMASTER, and my tiny iPhone.

I’m still virile, if not also viral.

I saw Jason Alexander and Martin Short in The Producers in SF before they went to LA. They were both terrific. That said, I remember very little about the show itself. It was fun while you were watching it, and then, poof, it's gone. (I thought the same about Book of Mormon.)

Carol Haney was rather butch, wasn't she.

Lee Roy Reams (who lives to dish) recounted that Stro's stage management in LA kept giving him (along with Jason and Marty) copious notes, night after night. He was hitting his marks, getting big laughs and playing it up opposite the wildly inventive Short. It didn't take long before there was a line drawn by the two stars that said "no more notes...it's OUR show now." Apparently Marty Short, who comes from that sketch/improv background, was the one who put his foot down in no uncertain terms. While Reams never said it outright, it sounded as if there was an ultimatum given to the producers of The Producers and the performance critiques ceased altogether.

R206 -- you're totally right about Richard Kind. He was really the only Max who broke the Nathan mold. He was definitively Richard Kind. And it worked really well!

Larry David would've been a killer Bialystock in his own way. The same way that Pseudolus can be played by a myriad of 'types', I could see how Bialystock could've been opened up to be a real vehicle for each star's patented shtick.

Apparently Billy Crystal was approached but turned Mel down when he realized he'd be the 5th or 6th guy to have played the part. Kelsey Grammer and David Hyde Pierce were also considered for a time.

Pasadena Playhouse announces cast for A Little Night Music...

How old is Frederik supposed to be? Desiree?

Just wondering. Michael Hayden is 59. I assumed he was even older.

I don't mind if they don't get the ages right as long as the talent is there.

David Lee is directing the Pasadena ALNM. He used to run Reprise in LA before Jason Alexander took it over and directed several of the shows. He aspires to hackdom.

Michael Hayden is not only too old, but he's all wrong for it.

Len Cariou was early 30s.

He was 34 and Glynis was 50.

I saw Jason Daniely as Frederick in the Barrington Stage production of NIGHT MUSIC last summer with Emily Skinner as Desiree. Skinner had lost weight (I remember when she was a big gal) and I couldn't help but think that she looked more than a little like Marin Mazzie.

I wonder if she's his new lady? They had good chemistry in the show.

The Comedie Francaise is finally doing Angels in America? It took them long enough.

Alex Newell is ready to break down the gender barrier!

Alex Newell is extremely talented

Parisian Opera House That Inspired ‘Phantom of the Opera’ Becomes an Airbnb

Anyone want to join me?

Patti LuPone as Desiree... Donna McKenchie as Desiree...

Desiree, sweety, I'm so sorry.

Jason's new girlfriend is not in show business.

" Chicago" in South Korea

Korean Evita

[Quote] Jason's new girlfriend is not in show business.

So she tours.

When you have a dancer as the director and an odious stage management team, that's when geniuses like Martin Short have to put their foot down and deny the ridiculous robotic, uninspired comedy notes.

Jason has been in a new relationship for a few years now. Just one. There's no one new. Good for him. He seems very happy.

Men tend to move on quickly.

I waited until the paramedics left.

[quote] Newell, a gender-nonconforming person who uses all pronouns (she/he/they), made their Broadway debut in 2017 as Asaka in the revival of Once On This Island. That debut was both triumphant and bittersweet: In spite of rave reviews for their performance, they were overlooked come Tony Awards season, with numerous nominators telling Newell that they didn’t know if they should have voted them into the Actor or Actress categories.

[quote] “My entire first time on Broadway was, ‘You were snubbed’,” Newell remembers. “I went everywhere, and that's what I was. Not, ‘Hello Alex how are you.’ It was always, ‘Oh how awful.’ The rationality that was given to me was, ‘Well we didn't know what category to put you in. You’re just so different.’ Was that supposed to make me feel better or worse?”

This never happened.

Alex, dear, they were just being nice. You weren't award worthy. There. Someone had to say it.

In 1991 and 2018, the only Once on This Island performer to get a Tony nod was the woman playing Ti Moune. So, yeah, it just wasn't gonna happen for you, Alex.

[quote]Newell, a gender-nonconforming person who uses all pronouns (she/he/they), made their Broadway debut in 2017 as Asaka in the revival of Once On This Island.

So, when someone says they use all pronouns, are people who are referring to him/her/them free to pick any one? Or are they wise to pick they/them just to be safe?

SLIH, while seeming to struggle, still sold over 8,800 tickets last week.

[Quote] Michael Hayden is not only too old, but he's all wrong for it.

First, we say, actors shouldn’t have to fit their predecessors’ molds. Then, when they’re different, we say they’re all wrong. I think Michael Hayden is a very interesting choice.

He’s no Nathan Lane.

In the Zero Mostel mold

How can anyone claim Michael Hayden is all wrong for Fredrik?

Isn't Fredrik a singing role, for a start?

Well...there *is* that.

Even in his youth, Michael Hayden could not sing well enough for the role of Fredrik. I can only imagine that now his voice has deteriorated due to age, especially because he was never really a singer with a solid technique. But I guess we shall see, and hear.

I've worked with Alex Newell. Lots of "church" talent but no training or work ethic, and an ego the size of his disgusting gut. He is not worth anyone's time or attention.

Damn. Sounds like Alex should have been Lea's replacement.

R219 - huh. I was hoping they might have a little more star power given the proximity to LA and the fact that this is rare "full orchestra" production of Night Music with an incredibly juicy leading lady role for an actress of a certain age... all with a short limited run commitment.

With some of this talk of combining Best Actor and Actress, whatever happened to the concept of "Vive la difference!"? If you want to be different in your pronoun, let others be different in theirs. Why squash people's masculinity and femininity together in one category? Perhaps they/them/non-binary can choose one or the other. Lauri Peters and the children in "Sound of Music" were nominated in either Best Performance by a Featured Actress I believe, so dealing with mixed genders has a precedent, which might not be acceptable to all, but was a solution back then.

He could barely sing "Carousel".

were nominated in {delete "either") Best Featured Actress.. etc., above in 254.

R252 Maybe Lea DeLaria.

[quote]He could barely sing "Carousel".

You think "Carousel" is an easy sing?

Not at all, which is why his casting was really bad. He couldn't handle it -- and certainly not to an audience who knew the show from Billy Bigelows like John Raitt and Gordon MacRae's wonderful voices.

I thought Michael Hayden was fine as Franklin Shepard in the 2002 Kennedy Center production of "Merrily We Roll Along."

Michael Hayden could not sing Carousel. He is not and never will be a singer.

[quote] [R219] - huh. I was hoping they might have a little more star power given the proximity to LA and the fact that this is rare "full orchestra" production of Night Music with an incredibly juicy leading lady role for an actress of a certain age... all with a short limited run commitment.

The Pasadena Playhouse does not waste their money on casting names. They are a medium-sized house and it’s a limited run, which will sell out without a celebrity in the cast.

Watched curtain call footage on instagram from first preview of Dancin'. No standing ovation!!! What????? Everything gets a standing ovation these days.

[quote]Stro and Co KILLED any possibility of this when they insisted every subsequent Bialystock and Bloom be carbon copies of Nathan and Matthew. This nearly drove Marty Short and Jason Alexander to walking on the LA production at one point, and caused no shortage of tension for capable performers in London, Australia and Canada.

This is true. In Australia, one of them was Tony Sheldon, who spoke recently about what an awful experience it was because he wasn't allowed to bring anything to the role.

Billy in CAROUSEL is a more difficult sing than Fredrik in NIGHT MUSIC, but the latter is no walk in the park, and I do think it helps if you have a really beautiful voice for that role. That's why Hayden's casting seems off to me.

OK which one of you bitches said you fingered me during a show?

[quote]I thought Michael Hayden was fine as Franklin Shepard in the 2002 Kennedy Center production of "Merrily We Roll Along."

Agreed, but that role is FAR easier to sing that either Fredrik in NIGHT MUSIC or Billy in CAROUSEL. That's the point here, in case you missed it.

In case you haven't noticed, LA theater rarely casts big stars in anything. And LA has never really been a Broadway tryout town either, like San Diego.

Theater is really not respected there or taken seriously by Hollywood except as a light diversion. Hollywood actors are discouraged by their agents from taking low paying theater jobs there. And as for LA audiences, in the 1990s/2000s, I worked on several NY hit shows that eventually had productions recreated at the Taper or the Geffen and no one came, no one was interested, whether they were recast occasionally with bigger names or not.

I was totally fucked when I did Grey Gardens in LA

I actually think from his social media post that Jason has a new girlfriend than the one he’s had for a few years

[quote]I actually think from his social media post that Jason has a new girlfriend than the one he’s had for a few years

I really don't think so, But if that's true, it's kind of embarrassing, because he has spent a lot of time talking about the girlfriend he's had for a few years on social media, in interviews, and even in his cabaret show.

[quote]I was totally fucked when I did Grey Gardens in LA —Betty Buckley

Pics please.

Maybe Jason has earned the right to be left alone by the DL crowd?

I love that every actor is now talking about gender. Really, I do. It's so interesting to know what actors think about this -- not say, doctors, psychiatrists, historians, writers. No, its actors we really need to hear from. They are so important.

When it comes to intelligence, actors are the first hogs to the trough.

[Quote] That's the point here, in case you missed it.

R267 you can be a cunt here but not a dick. In case you missed it.

I’ve ALWAYS found I know more about things than others!!

Just pointing out, the Sweeney/Lovett residence/office is actually 3 levels. The barbershop is upstairs, the pie shop is at street level, with the apartment behind it, and there's a cellar, with the grinder and the oven — Toby gets locked up in there.

[quote]Agreed, but that role is FAR easier to sing that either Fredrik in NIGHT MUSIC or Billy in CAROUSEL. That's the point here, in case you missed it.

I certainly didn't miss your gratuitous condescension.

Is there a lanai?

Is there a freewheeling lanai number?

R264 -- To give you an idea of their fundamental misunderstanding of comedy, Tony was forced to dye his white hair brown to better resemble Gary Beach. As if hair color makes anything more or less funny!

By the time they got to London, they had loosened things up for Conleth Hill (also gray haired) but it was just lunacy the lengths they went to produce carbon copy comedy. It should be noted that Nathan and Matthew really shaped those rehearsals with the OBC. 90% of directing is casting, and Stro and Mel cast it VERY well. The late Mike Ockrent had also done a lot of pre-production heavy lifting with Mel and Tom Meehan too. This might explain why Stroman hasn't been able to approach the heights of The Producers subsequently. An inspired choreographer to be sure, but NOT a director.

All of these "star" issues are why new (hoped-for) mega-musicals don't want to be dependent on names opening their shows on Broadway. Wicked, Jersey Boys, Hamilton and The Book of Mormon have succeeded in part because they're not dependent on star billing. The initial Broadway productions may create stars but audiences don't need or expect them to be there when they see a company on tour in the following years.

And this is why I wonder if Funny Girl will ever really tour beyond perhaps a stop in LA if Lea agrees to it (and why wouldn't she?). Fanny is near impossible to cast with someone with name recognition, who can perform the material and is actually willing to tour.

Fanny will be black on tour so that the country can see the " re-imagined for contemporary audiences" philosophy championed in New York.

Film studio buys the Cherry Lane Theatre:

Julie Benko could headline the tour with more recognizable names for Nick and Mama Brice. Lea can step in for LA.

Fun fact: actress Kim Hunter lived most of her career above the Cherry Lane Theatre, lived there until her death.

Rumor has it that she used to call up Jan Maxwell and laugh hysterically into the phone.

Who didn't?

I once did a little musical revue at the Cherry Lane Theatre and when summer arrived, the costume designer was called back to redesign several costumes because the stage is so tiny, the lighting instruments act like heat lamps on the performers.

R182 Thank you! Quite rright.

In his memoir, Nicolas Hytner wrote that he cast Michael Hayden as Billy in the UK production of Carousel because he thought that Joanna Riding would eat every other actor onstage that he auditioned (or some remark to that effect) until Hayden showed up. I saw Hayden play the role twice at Lincoln Center, and while he certainly wasn't a great singer his magnetism and sexiness made up for it...for me, anyway. He wasn't a bad singer, but he sure was no John Raitt. Interestingly, at one of the performances after the actors took their bows, Hayden made an announcement that John Raitt was in the audience and said something like "No one has ever sung the role of Billy better." I always wondered what Raitt thought of Hytner's production and Hayden's performance. I remember that Barbara Cook hated the production, although I don't know why. Too dark, maybe? I thought it was by far the best production of Carousel that I have ever seen.

And I'm very glad that John Raitt and Jan Clayton filmed the complete bench scene for a TV special in the 1950s, but Lord, John Raitt is SO stiff in his acting choices. Jan Clayton is a revelation, somehow otherworldly and funny and sweet and sad at the same time. But when Raitt gets up from the bench to face the audience and blast his version of "If I Loved You," all the drama goes out of the scene. He does sound great, and maybe that's how it was staged in 1945. I'm sure that's how Ethel Merman sang all her songs to her partners onstage, facing front and looking at the audience, but it sure doesn't help the mood of the scene. The staging at LCT with Hayden and Sally Murphy was perfect.

Jan Clayton was MUCH more than LASSIE's mom.

I don't trust any TV facsimile of a Broadway show as a faithful rendition of how it felt to a live audience.

[quote] I remember that Barbara Cook hated the production, although I don't know why.

Probably because she wanted to be cast as Nettie Fowler and sing “You’ll Never Walk Alone.” But they gave it to Shirley Verrett who had zero charm and sang it like she was singing Brunnhilde.

R294 that would have been a nice touch to cast Cook since she had played Julie and Carrie in earlier productions.

So have any of your bitches seen Sweeney yet? I want some DL dishing on this production. Apparently the sound design is the most problematic (next to Jordan Fisher's miscasting). Lots of griping that it's muddy and small-sounding even in the center orchestra.

[quote]In his memoir, Nicolas Hytner wrote that he cast Michael Hayden as Billy in the UK production of Carousel because he thought that Joanna Riding would eat every other actor onstage that he auditioned (or some remark to that effect) until Hayden showed up.

Well, that may be true as far as it goes, but I very much doubt it's the complete truth as to why Hayden was cast by Nicholas Hytner.

My understanding is that Hayden is a very religious Christian. Factor that into all of your theories.

I guess that's interesting, R298, but not sure what it has to do with any of our "theories."

[quote]My understanding is that Hayden is a very religious Christian. Factor that into all of your theories.

So is Kristin Chenoweth, but that didn’t get in the way of her career or bedding Aaron Sorkin.

Lenpiphany

Is there an interview of Barbara Cook cunting off on the Carousel revival?

I read somewhere that this staging of SWEENEY omits the factory whistle at the beginning. True?

R303 -- Yes, the factory whistle has been noticeably absent from the previews thus far. It's akin to Sally's red dress debacle in Follies (Mary!)

You've got to wonder why it's not there. It's essential to building / releasing tension in this melodrama. Some of the kids over at BWW are wondering if it's not there on account of the pearl clutching "are there any loud noises, gun shots, flashing flights??" crowd. I sure hope not.

R294 , Barbara Cook had been offered the role of Nettie Fowler in a production in D.C., I think, and she didn't want to do it.

Odd to see people carrying on as if Billy Bigelow and Fredrik Egerman are remotely comparable in any way -- vocally or otherwise.

Which of these high-profile Fredriks -- Len Cariou, William Daniels, George Lee Andrews, Laurence Guittard, Jeremy Irons, Victor Garber, Alexander Hanson -- would you have liked to see as Billy Bigelow? Guittard did it, and I'm guessing that he was very good vocally. But the others?

Maybe there’s no factory whistle because this production doesn’t use the factory set.

R307 -- that may be valid, but the whistle has become a staple of the score itself. Revisited many times in concert and in other productions.

Maybe if Sweeney uses the whistle, they have to pay royalties to the Prince estate. Was the whistle written by Sondheim or part of Prince’s staging?

Finally! The plot of Shucked revealed...

Is that supposed to convince people to buy tickets?

Given how nuts all the kids over on Broadway world are going, I would like to officially request that the next link be named the "Where's the goddamn factory whistle" edition. Thanks for your time and consideration.

Okay who was the bigger Theatre review cunt? Barbara Cook or Arthur Laurents?

Ask Mary Rodgers...

Ouch! The TIMES is brutal to HERCULES. It's once again written that Ms. deBossenet is an absolutely hapless director.

Link to TIMES review of Hercules...

[quote] Finally! The plot of Shucked revealed...

Alex Newell is really good as a woman in that clip.

I've worked with Michael Hayden at least 5 times over the years and if he has any religious feelings about anything, he kept them to himself. Great guy, hard worker, always a pleasure onstage and off. I can't bear some of the hearsay gossip that sometimes appears here unchallenged.

The New York Times review of HERCULES calls Robert Horn a composer. The paper of record.

Wow, a black Hercules... go figure. NY is so woke.

That HERCULES pan from the NY Times and its accompanying photo are dire. Who would want to see that shit?

Why is that talentless hack and former Project Runway contestant Emilio Sosa suddenly designing the costumes for everything? Just looked up his credits and besides Hercules, this season alone, he designed Sweeney Todd, A Beautiful Noise, 1776, Ain't No Mo and Goodnight, Oscar.

Why has she never played Desirée

I don't think Donna would deign to play Desiree anywhere outside of NYC and then only on Broadway or perhaps at Encores. Certainly not at the Pasadena Playhouse. And I don't blame her.

Bernadette is, of course, a bigger name so she got to replace CZJ in the last NY revival. By the time the next Broadway revival comes around, Donna will be lucky if she's not too old to play Mme Armfeldt.

Anyone can whistle so why can't the Sweeney revival?

[quote] Why has she never played Desirée

Because Desiree is supposed to be a European actress and nothing about Donna Murphy screams European actress. Murphy screams icy New Yorker.

[quote]Why is that talentless hack and former Project Runway contestant Emilio Sosa suddenly designing the costumes for everything? Just looked up his credits and besides Hercules, this season alone, he designed Sweeney Todd, A Beautiful Noise, 1776, Ain't No Mo and Goodnight, Oscar.

Fair question. I hate the new Sweeney costumes, as I said upthread.

1776 revival and, to a lesser extent, AIN'T NO MO were two of the ugliest, worst designed physical productions I've seen in recent years on Bway. (I enjoyed some of AIN'T NO MO, at least). Bway producers have lost every ounce of taste.

Lizzo is you next Desiree.

Lizzo's a Petra, r328.

Lizzo is the country they have a weekend in.

On a shallow note, the guy playing Hercules is hot.

I’m going to see Hercules this weekend. I loved the movie

[quote]On a shallow note, the guy playing Hercules is hot.

Shallow shmallow, r331. It's Hercules, he damn well better be hot.

[quote]Odd to see people carrying on as if Billy Bigelow and Fredrik Egerman are remotely comparable in any way -- vocally or otherwise.

I didn't mean to say they're comparable, just that both roles require legit-sounding voices, whereas Frank in MERRILY WE ROLL ALONG does not.

You're fine, r334. Frederick does have certain vocal requirements. I remember there being discussion that Jeremy Irons didn't quite meet them.

Which of these voices is "legit-sounding"?

Len Cariou? Not exactly.

William Daniels? Not on his best day.

George Lee Andrews and Laurence Guittard? Sure

Jeremy Irons? No.

Victor Garber? Never, really, and certainly not by the time he did the part.

Alexander Hanson? No.

R336 I'm also confused by this bizarre insistence that Frederik is a hard sing. Frederik sings two and a half songs, none of which are particularly taxing in terms of range. Certainly "Now" has some difficult patter but nothing unmanageable. Any legit baritone (granted, those are in short supply these days) should be able to sing a light operetta style score like ALNM with ease. Hayden has the wrong kind of voice but I'm sure he can sing the part. The liebeslieder quintet does most of vocal the heavy lifting in ALNM, not Frederik.

[quote]Frederik sings two and a half songs

I think your math is off. None of them are solos, but he sings in five songs.

Who knew Tom Sizemore at Temple Univ?

[quote]Frederick does have certain vocal requirements. I remember there being discussion that Jeremy Irons didn't quite meet them.

Thanks. On the evidence of the original London cast album, another performer who didn't quite meet them was Joss Ackland.

[quote]I'm also confused by this bizarre insistence that Frederik is a hard sing.

Your confusion is that you don't understand my meaning. I would not describe Fredrik is a "hard sing" in terms of stamina and difficulty, but to me, the character's music is written in such a way that it really benefits from a beautiful, legit or semi-legit sound in certain sections -- for example, the high notes in "Now," the legato and the high notes in "You Must Meet My Wife," and the more sustained, full-out-sung parts of "It Would Have Been Wonderful." That's why the best-sung Fredriks I've ever heard live or on recordings were Cariou and Mark Jacoby, as compared to Irons and Ackland and Alexander Hanson.

R336, I agree with you about the others, but I think Len Cariou's voice definitely has a legit or semi-legit sound when he chooses to use it, as he did when appropriate in SWEENEY TODD and NIGHT MUSIC -- but not in APPLAUSE, where it would not have been appropriate.

Every Sondheim show is a hard sing!

Except Frank in Merrily!

[quote]Anyone can whistle so why can't the Sweeney revival?

My vote for the next thread title

Tom Schumacher must be shitting in his Depends. Hercules was supposed to replace Aladdin at the New Amsterdam.

[quote]Every Sondheim show is a hard sing!

Barbara Cook would have been the first to agree with you. And it wasn't a critique, but an astute observation from a talented singer who didn't really read music.

When did Cook first add Sondheim to her repertoire?

She was Sally in Lincoln Center's FOLLIES concert, R346. (Now turn in your card and leave.)

She actually started singing Sondheim in her cabaret act in the 1970s.

What does it mean to be a “legit” singer? Is it the ability to project without amplification?

Is it anything akin to the legitimate theatre?

R347, did she? I don't recall hearing any Sondheim songs in her concerts until after she did the Follies concert. I also don't think there are any on her two concert albums from Carnegie Hall.

She included "One Hand, One Heart" in the Bernstein medley in her 1980 Carnegie Hall concert.

Cook covered "Send In the Clowns" in her cabaret act when ALNM was on Bway, then recorded it much later on her Mostly Sondheim album.

Thank you, r352.

NYNY is “written by David Thompson” and “co-written by Sharon Washington”

There have been shared writing credits — with the word and and with & — forever. What fresh hell is this?

Cook sang the definitive "In Buddy's Eyes" as far as most Sondheimites are concerned.

Not this one. Dorothy Collins first, last and always.

Cook who?

[quote] NYNY is “written by David Thompson” and “co-written by Sharon Washington” There have been shared writing credits — with the word and and with & — forever. What fresh hell is this?

It means they needed a POC on the creative team for optics.

The truth is that both Dorothy Collins and Barbara Cook gave superb performances of "In Buddy's Eyes" -- in different keys, FWIW -- so there is absolutely no point in debating which performance was better or more definitive.

[Quote] It means they needed a POC on the creative team for optics.

But why completely separate billing?

Have to call attention to it.

Could we ban use of the word "woke"? People who use that word at all seem to do so repeatedly, ad nauseam. How can they not tire of shrieking it out? I am not even addressing whatever points they are trying to make, it is the incessant use of the word and its juvenile variations that has become so tiresome.

R361, I understand and share your feelings to a certain extent. On the other hand, I think "woke" is very good shorthand for all of the stuff that it refers to, which would otherwise require lots of words to explain -- for example, affirmative action and reparation initiatives that actually end up discriminating against non-POC. So "woke" is useful in that way.

No it's not.

The Right has subverted the word.

Barbara Cook *IS* Nettie Fowler in Heaven Carousel 2025!

Elaine Stritch *IS* Julie Jordan!

They're doing Side Show, r365.

R363 is woke.

[quote]Cook sang the definitive "In Buddy's Eyes" as far as most Sondheimites are concerned.

Elaine Stritch didn't think so. She's busy examining her shoes while Babs is singing it.

Only racists and reactionaries are using "woke" in 2023.

Which is their shorthand for "not white."

r362, please understand that Ron DeSantis and Ted Cruz and all the other Magats are in total agreement with you.

Just watched the video of actor James Beaman by John McWhorter regarding a post-pandemic rehearsal room incident and the absolute insanity that was allowed to take place at a union workplace. Astounding.

Henrik in ALNM is possibly, if briefly, a harder sing than Frederik because of That Note in Now/Later/Soon. I've never heard anyone hit it as well as Mark Lambert on the original cast recording. I saw one production where the actor playing Henrik actually played the cello during Later instead of miming it, which has to be difficult (didn't quite land That Note, though). Of course, I don't believe Henrik sings anything else in the show but a small bit toward the end of A Weekend in the Country, so Harder-Sing Points to Frederik. (I'm still waiting for a lush, full-orchestra production at the Beaumont.)

r372 - I think you're right. Lincoln Center is probably our only hope for a full, lush production of Night Music in NY.

Some friends of mine in San Diego were raving about the Sunday in the Park With George production there. Not the Pasadena Playhouse production further north. Apparently, there's a newer resident theatre company at the performing arts center in Escondido (North San Diego) that casts their productions with a combination of NY / Broadway actors and local Equity actors, full orchestras etc.

I guess sort of like former "Civic Light Opera" companies would.

Anyone see the show?

Caption this!

And to bring it back to Follies, as we always must, I seem to recall an interview with Barbara Cook, where she said she didn’t like (or maybe “didn’t get”) the original production of Follies.

[quote]R363 is woke.

I do my best.

R352, I don't think Barbara Cook sang "Send In the Clowns" at Brothers & Sisters in 1974 which was at the tail end of the Broadway run of A LITTLE NIGHT MUSIC. She didn't start singing Sondheim songs until quite a bit later.

[quote]Elaine Stritch didn't think so. She's busy examining her shoes while Babs is singing it.

To put it another way, she's too busy stealing focus from Barbara Cook, who at that moment is mesmerizing everyone else in the room, with some bullshit about not being able to find one of her shoes, because of her pathological need to always be the center of attention.

Exactly. A friend in the company of the last ALMN said that at the sitzprobe, Bernadette started doing "Send in the Clowns" and Stritch decided she had to open her purse and look for her diabetes paraphernalia—just to grab attention.

A great regional production of 'Parade' is playing in northern NJ for a while. I saw it and it's great. Thought I'd let you guys know.

I'm surprised Stritch didn't demand the oboist give her the injection r380.

Teacher, teacher! Dawn Davenport is eating a meatball hero, right in class!

[quote]Just watched the video of actor James Beaman by John McWhorter regarding a post-pandemic rehearsal room incident and the absolute insanity that was allowed to take place at a union workplace. Astounding

Can you maybe be a little more specific, or perhaps provide a link?

Does Roger Bart make this face for the entire show?

Barbara's singing "Glitter and Be Gay" in the original keys in heaven. Who says who have to stay in your oldest state, maybe you can revert to your most wonderful time when living?

Okay, I found the Beaman video.

I worked on that concert of Follies. Very rushed rehearsals. Barbara's versions are OK. Everyone was VERY worried about Lee Remick, but she pulled it off.

But, that concert is not Follies, not even close. So many miscast people, starting with Stritch herself, who signed on to do "I'm Still Here," but Carol Burnett said she would only do that, so Stritch agreed to "Broadway Baby." We had suggested Gwen Verdon for "Broadway Baby," and they tried to get her, but she was busy with Sweet Charity.

George Hearn and Mandy Patinkin, both completely wrong for their roles. The rationale was, "just a concert," blah blah blah.

So Barbara Cook was one of the least problematic elements.

R388, I've always felt similarly about that FOLLIES. It was an "event" because there were all those stars involved and because people wanted to show their love for the show itself, but as you say, almost all of the leads other than Barbara Cook were miscast. And it really was not a good concert production of FOLLIES. There were even some changes made in the score to make it simpler, and for some reason, a new ending was added that pretty much negated anything good that had happened before.

R388, yes, and it had been conceived as a complete recording of the Follies score, since the original recording had been so truncated. But this concert was also truncated.

Miscast or not, where is the entire concert on video? The rest must be somewhere.

[quote]George Hearn and Mandy Patinkin, both completely wrong for their roles. The rationale was, "just a concert," blah blah blah.

And Steve saying they cast as if they were casting for an actual production. I can just imagine Carol's Torchy Lady Carlotta and Barbara getting through the Who's That Woman tap.

It turns out, it's Ben and Buddy that are so difficult to cast in Follies, not Phyllis and Sally. But I have yet to see a Ben who can really do it like John McMartin.

[quote]And Steve saying they cast as if they were casting for an actual production.

He may have said that, but in the video about the concert, he also says it doesn't matter that Mandy Patinkin is way too young for the role of Buddy, "because this is a concert." He also says, I guess in an effort to be gallant, that it doesn't matter than Barbara Cook and Lee Remick are also a little bit too young for the roles, when the truth is that Remick was pretty much exactly the right age for Phyllis, and if anything, Cook was about 10 years too old for Sally. For the story to make sense with the timeline, both of those women should be about 50, give or take five years or so. So I guess this was another example of Sondheim apparently contradicting himself, which happened quite often.

[quote] I don't think Barbara Cook sang "Send In the Clowns" at Brothers & Sisters in 1974 which was at the tail end of the Broadway run of A LITTLE NIGHT MUSIC. She didn't start singing Sondheim songs until quite a bit later.

Yes, prior to "Follies," Ms. Cook was merely posing as a somdomite.

[quote]So I guess this was another example of Sondheim apparently contradicting himself, which happened quite often.

He was nothing if not gallant.

R392, Barbara Cook actually could tap. Before she came to New York, she was a "pony" in vaudeville-type shows and tap danced. She tapped sitting down in a show in Chicago in 1986 or so. With her age and weight, she couldn't do it standing up.

You can't do the mirror number sitting down, r397...as much as I wanted to.

[quote] starting with Stritch herself, who signed on to do "I'm Still Here," but Carol Burnett said she would only do that, so Stritch agreed to "Broadway Baby."

I can’t stand Burnett’s I’m Still Here. She’s too silly with it. “When you’ve been through Herbert and J. Edgar Hoo-woo-ver…”

I understand that getting a star like Burnett was good publicity, but there were better choices. Plus Carlotta is supposed to be a bit of a seductress which is the complete opposite of Burnett.

But this concert version was a big event. At the time, Follies still had mystery about it. Supposedly everyone had seen the original and thought it was brilliant, but nobody was doing a revival to examine why it was brilliant.

I have it from the horse's mouth (Thomas Z. Shepard) that the entire thing was in fact NOT videorecorded, for whatever reason. He also told me that he wanted DL fave Linda Lavin for Phyllis, believe it or not.

It would have been interesting to do a production of Follies with the four performers who played the young Ben, Buddy, Phyllis and Sally in the concert. But it's at least ten years too late now.

Oh FFS

Follies In Concert should have asked me!

Speaking of “In Concert” shows:

I present The Wizard of Oz

With Debra Winger as the Wicked Witch 😂

That evening still remains one of the greatest theatrical events I've attended. And I started seeing shows in 1959. Flaws and all (Patinkin especially), the the communal experience of rediscovering the show together, the old pros onstage, and the grand Philharmonic had the audience screaming. You had to be there to appreciate it.

The compliment of course is that she KNEW Cook was talented and therefore had to steal focus! Notice she didn’t do any funny business during Phyllis Newman’s croaking

That’s hilarious that Debra Winger was the Wicked Witch and that she found no irony in that casting

Can someone please let me know where to go to in the Beaman interview that is over an hour long? What is the story?

It's hard to imagine a time when Carol Burnett's appearance in this concert was so vital that they'd allow her to sing "I'm Still Here" when she was clearly wrong for it. Not just her appearance but her harsh belting.

Then again, everyone raved about Nancy Walker's rendition in that 70s Sondheim Scrabble concert, so perhaps there was some kind of a precedent.

Yeah, life is too short for that Beaman video. What's the poop in brief?

Mr. Sondheim (whom I knew slightly… never saw the magic handcuffs) said on the top of his dream list for Ben and Sally were Alan Alda and Barbara Harris, who had worked together in both “Apple Tree” and “Seduction of Joe Tynan.” He discovered that Harris was too emotionally unstable to do it. Another possibility for Ben was Hal Holbrook, and Shirley Jones came up as a possible Sally. First choice for Buddy was Steve Lawrence (believe it or not.) He always wanted Lee Remick, because he had always been “in love with her” (his words.) and yes, they wanted Stritch for I’m Still Here,” but she said she was “too young for the song,” and would rather sing “Broadway Baby,” sung by the second OLDEST of the Follies girls, so what was that about?

Meanwhile, my Stritch pulling focus story is when she did a concert version of Sail Away at Weill Recital Hall at Carnegie Hall in 1999.

Marian Seldes and Jane Connell were also in the cast, and when I saw it, EVERY TIME Marian or Jane started speaking, Stritch would haul her purse onto her lap and start rooting through it. Digging out a Kleenex and her nose, looking into her compact, etc. It was obnoxious. Even though she was no doubt the star, she was so threatened by the idea of someone else getting a laugh she had to keep all eyes on her.

Did she ever pull a meatball hero out of her purse?

and *blowing her nose

Oh, damn, Barbara Harris as Sally would have been amazing.

Yes, 399. Everyone, myself included, loves Carol Burnett, but it seems that sometimes she could be difficult, and she didn't always make good decisions as to what roles and songs were or weren't right for her. In FOLLIES, she would have been great doing "Broadway Baby" or "Who's That Woman?", but "I'm Still Here" was ALL wrong for her.

Ya have to believe she was a sloe-eyed vamp!

[quote]It would have been interesting to do a production of Follies with the four performers who played the young Ben, Buddy, Phyllis and Sally in the concert. But it's at least ten years too late now.

It's about 30 years too late now. And one of them, the beloved Harvey Evans, is deceased. Harvey did play the older Buddy in at least one production, maybe two, but I think (not sure) he was the only one of the younger four to play their older counterpart.

The Beaman video is not actually an hour long, it's considerably shorter. But I think the stories begin around eight minutes in.

[quote]with the four performers who played the young Ben, Buddy, Phyllis and Sally in the concert.

Read again, r417.

Oh, sorry, R419. I did misread. But honestly, I don't think any of the four who played young Ben, Phyllis, Buddy, and Sally in the concert are closely enough associated with those roles to make it interesting for them to play the older counterparts in a full production. Also, no one loves Liz Callaway more than I do, but I don't think she has those soprano notes for "Too Many Mornings" etc.

I don’t think Carol Burnett was being difficult. She had agreed to sing I’m Still here, and she had learned it. She had limited time for rehearsing, and she wasn’t going to do something else. Stritch was gracious enough to do the other song.

I think that all the original younger version actors played their adult role in the mid 2000s in Michigan(?)

[quote]Everyone, myself included, loves Carol Burnett, but it seems that sometimes she could be difficult, and she didn't always make good decisions as to what roles and songs were or weren't right for her. In FOLLIES, she would have been great doing "Broadway Baby" or "Who's That Woman?", but "I'm Still Here" was ALL wrong for her.

Yes, it was all wrong for her, but at least her rendition was horrible. I know I exaggerate my memories sometimes, but I swear she incorporated her Tarzan yell into it at some point.

Interesting that Nancy Walker, never ever a sloe-eyed vamp, did indeed do the best I'm Still Here. Something about her being a very fine actress seems to have helped her to overcome the miscasting. And I believe that SS said it was his favorite.

I never got the love for Nancy's version. The lyrics do her in.

[quote] I know I exaggerate my memories sometimes, but I swear she incorporated her Tarzan yell into it at some point.

She did not

Please explain, r425.

[quote]Interesting that Nancy Walker, never ever a sloe-eyed vamp, did indeed do the best I'm Still Here.

In whose opinion? Sondheim's? As someone noted, he was very gallant.

Walker's version was surprisingly good, but that doesn't make it the best. Give me Yvonne DeCarlo any day. Not only did she sing the hell out of it, she was, in fact, a sloe-eyed vamp whose career careered into camp.

[quote]She did not.

It was a joke, R426. Jesus.

And I didn't need to hear it again. All these years later, it still sucks.

Like they do Carol in, r427. The lyrics are so character and period specific that it isn't a one size fits all song. Something like Losing My Mind can be lifted from the show. It's a song that has a certain look in my mind and it isn't Carol or Nancy's. It's just me.

As most here know, except for John McMartin, all four of the other leads brought a genuinely honest nostalgic value to their performances that few succeeding actors could achieve.

Audiences of 1970 still had romantic memories of those stars from 20-30 years before, which reminded them of their own youthful dreams. I was only a 20 year old college student when I saw Follies but I knew enough movie and show biz lore to connect with all of it.

[quote] It was a joke, [R426]. Jesus.

Aren’t jokes supposed to be funny?

The only version worse than Carol’s was Elaine Stritch. Sondheim should have exercised a bit more control over major (televised) productions of his music. I pity anyone whose introduction to this song was this performance.

Youre crazy r433...thats one of the best. You believed every word.

[quote] You believed every word.

No, I believed I was watching an actress, who needed attention, commit literal murder on a great song of the American Musical Theater.

[quote]I don’t think Carol Burnett was being difficult. She had agreed to sing I’m Still here, and she had learned it. She had limited time for rehearsing, and she wasn’t going to do something else.

It's what she agreed to, but as has been pointed out, "I'm Still Here" was not the song that the artistic team for the concert originally had in mind for her. And I'm sure the reason they didn't have it in mind for her was because they knew the song was not well suited for her and vice-versa. I'm sure Burnett wanted to do it anyway because it's potentially the big show-stopper, but I'm still surprised that she didn't have enough self-awareness to know she was not the right type for that song in terms of voice and personality.

I seem to recall Carol Burnett sang "Losing My Mind" on her tv show. For someone who really was standout in "Once Upon a Mattress" not just in terms of the humor, but also a good belting voice, when Carol used to do songs on her show, they were almost homogenized -- pleasant but almost a more lively Lawrence Welk quality to them (but beltier). She spent most of her brio on Eunice and the comedy sketches.

I don't know if anyone has really made Buddy as much of a dance role since Gene Nelson's superb performance. There's not Michael Bennett to craft such a great showcase for a performer's particular talents. Though it wasn't really a dance if I recall, Peter Forbes, who played Buddy in the London revival was quite good, but didn't seem to be remarked upon too much. Maybe if he had lines about a green dress or something, he would have gotten more attention. But he was quite good.

Carol Burnett did Send in the Clowns on her show.

I feel like most variety show musical performances were either homogenized or oversung. My go-to example for the latter is Florence Henderson giving too much to "Sorry Seems to Be the Hardest Word" on The Brady Bunch Hour. Going back to Follies, I wonder just how many performers are around who can really convey the sense that everything seemed possible for them back in the day.

Oh, and if you wanted proof ...

Oh...r440 ...thank you but...no. I'm more than willing to take your word for it....

Here's that John McWhorter, Glenn Loury and Jamie Beaman discussion on wokeism overtaking rehearsal rooms and stages across North America. McWhorter has written some remarkably insightful, nuanced op eds on these issues for the NYT and The Atlantic. Beaman's experience echoes a lot of what colleagues (of every color) are too afraid to speak up against for fear of retaliation.

Do you think Queen Latifah would ever do Broadway? She's got a great voice, strong stage presence and is a good (not great, but good) actress.

Apparently, Queen Latifah was all but ready to sign on for a Broadway Dolly! Revival after the Chicago film but Herman himself nixed it because she wasn’t “the right type”.

One understands Herman allowing CZJ several more years to “age into” Mame, but Latifah would have been a slam dunk for a Dolly! revival in the mid-to-late 00s. Ah, well…

Talking about more almost-casting-but-wasn't -- Zachary Levi was all but signed to do 'Young Frankenstein' on Broadway, but 'Chuck' was given the green light and he left the project.

Brian D'Arcy James had done the reading of that show, along with Marc Kudisch and Cheno. Bart was playing Igor in the reading, but was quickly bumped up to Frederik when everyone else passed.

Herman was dumb for saying Latifah isn't right for Dolly. I'd venture to say she'd have been better than Bette, and Bette has been my favorite performer my entire life. I loved Bette in Dolly but she didn't surprise me like she does in concert and film. She was great and exuded star wattage, but I think that Latifah just has a natural charm that would win over anyone when she comes down that staircase.

I'd seen Fantasia perform I'm Here (concert style) on the Tonys, but had never seen this bootleg of her performance, in character/costume in the actual show. Wow. She's astonishing here. Was the rest of her performance this strong? I'm so impressed with her overall performance. She acts each beat so beautifully. Even the physicality of the performance is so good. I believe I'm watching an elderly woman there who has worked herself to the bone.

A black Hercules makes no sense - he is supposed to be a Greek God. I hope the NY Times review is returning to the days of giving honest, straightforward reviews instead of pandering to diversity requirements.

[quote]A black Hercules makes no sense - he is supposed to be a Greek God.

How stunning and brave of you to bring this to everybody's attention. Verisimilitude is essential in a campy stage musical based on a Disney cartoon.

I got my ticket to Camelot. I played Mordred many moons ago in a production directed by a dear friend who recently passed away, so I got the ticket and am keeping her in my heart. Mordred was a great role, as I rolled into the theater about 8:30pm for a 2nd act entrance. Mordred is a criminally underwritten role for a character who brings such chaos and destruction. He's always forgotten, but he IS the catalyst of the events of the whole of Act II. He gets the most unimportant song in the show too, which is bizarre as a star like Roddy McDowell originated the part.

While I agree that Camelot's book is deadly boring, I am very interested to see how they "fix" it. Though I haven't seen Broadway "fix" a revival for the better in over 20 years.

A recent Playbill article stated the book will be more "human." Please. That means they're zeroing in on the boring, boring, boring love triangle.

If any of the "fantasy" elements are removed or cut as they always are, I will be furious. Honestly, the magic and pageantry are the only parts of the book that work.

I'm also struggling about what will make this show more "woke." It's not the representation that is a problem, hell Jennifer Holliday could play Arthur and I wouldn't care as it's all a mythological archetype, but it's the dreadfully dull soap opera elements that drag the show down.

r448, 3 black ladies voiced the muses in the original movie. It has a "gospel" style score.

Pick your "woke" battles carefully.

Mordred actually first appears early in Act One, during Follow Me (along with Lancelot), when Merlin, who talks through the number as he gradually disappears, worries about whether or not he warned Arthur about these two men who will bring such trouble to his reign. They appear behind a scrim, or at least did so in the original production. I saw it twice and remember this scene vividly. It's also in the published text.

Did your production cut this business, R450? Every time Camelot is performed, something else is missing.

[quote]Mordred is a criminally underwritten role for a character who brings such chaos and destruction.

You're absolutely right, R450, and he;s also the main reason that the second act of "Camelot" is such a letdown. He's nothing but a cardboard villain who isn't even remotely interesting. Worse, Arthur, the hero of the saga, becomes a boring wimp in the second act who does nothing to stem the destruction of Camelot because, after all, Mordred is his son. A 2018 production of "Camelot" at the Shakespeare Theatre Company in D.C. was widely praised and a very successful production for the company. It was even extended. But it made several missteps, including restoring "Fie on Goodness," which was rightfully cut from the original production. The song makes no sense. Why do all these knights who swore allegiance to Arthur and his ideals suddenly start following Mordred? The song only emphasizes how lame the second act is,

r452, yah the director cut the foreshadowing vision of Mordred in Act 1. Which rocked so I could relax after getting home from work til curtain time.

R453, I actually really like Fie on Goodness but I do agree with you the plot shift makes no sense. But it does give Mordred more to do. At least in the production I was in. The song is actually longer than any version on any recording.

Hal Linden would’ve been a good Ben or a Buddy. He was handsome enough to play Ben but his energy was more Buddy.

Can anyone who's seen the original and current revival of Parade compare and contrast the two? I think the current production is using the London "revised" script, which I didn't like when I saw a regional theater do the show. It was Harold Prince's last greatest production if I recall correctly.

The original was lightning in a bottle. I was dragged begrudgingly to see it and it remains one of the greatest shows I've ever seen. I saw AGYG the day before and believe me I was furious that Bernadette won the Tony over Carolee Carmello.

At any rate, I won't see the revival because the original was just too, too perfect.

[quote]A black Hercules makes no sense - he is supposed to be a Greek God.

I'll take "white men are the thinnest-skinned whiny bitches on the planet" for $400, Alex.

Hercules is black because the Broadway producers still think that casting black or female in a role which has always been a white male is daring, modern, and popular. It's hackneyed and unpopular, as one can see from box office receipts.

Who gives a shit if Hercule is black? More power to him.

The traditional Hercules is hung and sucks dick. I hope they don’t change that.

[quote] A black Hercules makes no sense - he is supposed to be a Greek God.

This message was brought to you by the makers of White Jesus

I should've played Hercules! I can sing!

The current production of Parade is hands down superior to the original production. I saw both and there is no comparison.

I thought Queen Latifah didn’t want to do Hello Dolly because she didn’t want to compared to Pearl Bailey.

Worst thread ever?

R451, to be completely accurate, it was five black women who voiced them in the movie.

A couple of thoughts:

1) Carol Burnett has given interviews (which is possibly not sincere) that she signed on to Follies thinking it was just going to be a recording, but then she ran into Beverly Sills who told her she was excited to come watch her sing. Carol assumed that meant Beverly was coming to the recording studio, only to find out it was a live concert and she panicked. I believe that she panicked because her nerves were on display during the documentary, and she NEVER did anything like Follies again.

2) Jordan Donica has a beautiful voice and I hope Camelot propels him to greatness.

3) Patti LuPone gave interviews that she was asked to do the revival of Hello Dolly after Gypsy, but that Jerry Herman didn’t want to update the book, and therefore, LuPone passed. Bette ended up doing the original book, to great acclaim, MUCH to LuPone’s chagrin. And…yes….Queen Latifah has been offered Dolly twice and both times she passed. She didn’t want to follow Pearl Bailey.

[quote] Jerry Herman didn’t want to update the book

What updates would be made to the book?

I can’t imagine LuPone doing Dolly. The character needs some subtlety which LuPone has zero.

[Quote] A black Hercules makes no sense - he is supposed to be a Greek God.

They went to the original source material—Greek mythology. Ancient Greeks certainly weren’t lily white

Burnett COULD have been perfect for I’m Still Here.

The problem is relied on her comedic instincts and tried to make it funny

[Quote] I can’t imagine LuPone doing Dolly. The character needs some subtlety which LuPone has zero.

That’s what I thought until I saw LuPone in Gypsy. She really surprised me how much subtlety she showed

The original Parade was quite a slog indeed.

I enjoyed the original Parade—it’s certainly wasn’t a fun and light production but the music overtakes you

I'm wondering what kind of subtlety did Carol Channing, Ginger Rogers, Phyllis Diller, Betty Grable, Ethel Merman and Martha Raye bring to Dolly?

Also I can't imagine Patti would expect "updates" to the Dolly script. What does that even mean? Nor that she'd pass on the Broadway revival.

r467, it seems very odd that Burnett would "sign on" to FOLLIES without understanding what she would have to do. Wouldn't she have been surrounded by agents/managers who would have read every detail of a contract before an agreement was reached?

Patti wouldn't have the requisite charm for Dolly. Maybe even she realized that.

Wish they had asked Latifah to play Pearl Bailey in the Encores! House of Flowers. Maybe they did. BBut alas, it went to the humorless Tonya Pinkins.

Didn't Comden & Green give Carol the cold shoulder at that Follies concert because of residual bad feelings on Fade Out, Fade In?

[quote] Burnett COULD have been perfect for I’m Still Here.

She would have been fine singing the song out of the context of the show.

Within the context of the show, Carlotta is a sexpot. She talks about how she has a young lover who she’ll probably drop for another guy. There’s also the moment where Ben is begging to fuck her (just before One More Kiss). Carlotta needs to have some sex appeal.

I don’t understand why Burnett would have trouble doing Follies in front of an audience. She started out doing musicals on Broadway and often sang live on her own show.

R479, Burnett’s character could have been a sex pot. That doesn’t mean she has to be a ravishing beauty. She just had to be known as giving good head

Burnett’s vibe was always ugly duckling, lesbian schoolteacher. Carlotta is the sexiest character in the show. She’s the counterpoint to the four couples marriage problems.

[quote]Also I can't imagine Patti would expect "updates" to the Dolly script. What does that even mean?

She wanted to play it as a black trans-sexual.

I was the poster who posted about Carol Burnett in Follies not knowing it was a concert when she signed. The whole interview is in Craig Zadan’s book Sondheim & Company for those that have a copy.

Here is an article also about Carol telling the story that she didn’t know it was a concert

4000 new shows and here were are talking Follies. Not even the show; a concert

Face it bucko, the last post on the Datalounge as it dies will be about Follies.

R435

How was that murder??

That performance by Elaine WAS my introduction to the song and I loved it. Granted, some of the references didn't land and no, she was never a slow eyed vamp, but otherwise it was brilliantly delivered.

What is it missing?

[Quote] a slow eyed vamp

The horror!

[quote] 4000 new shows and here we are talking Follies.

And this is surprising how?

Damn, I’m going to spend the rest of the day now fantasizing about Barbara Harris as Sally. She would have been so brilliant.

R411 I know you corrected it, but somehow I am still intrigued by the idea of Elaine Stritch pulling her nose out of her purse.

R417, Of course, the question was about the young four in the 1985 FOLLIES concert but the 1971 original young quartet did do FOLLIES as the older counterparts. Harvey Evans did play Buddy several times but only once with the other three original young quartet. It was a 2003 concert in Ann Arbor, Michigan.

[quote] The original was lightning in a bottle. I was dragged begrudgingly to see it and it remains one of the greatest shows I've ever seen. I saw AGYG the day before and believe me I was furious that Bernadette won the Tony over Carolee Carmello. At any rate, I won't see the revival because the original was just too, too perfect.

My opinion is exactly the opposite. For whatever reason(s), the original production did not quite work for me. And it seems many people shared my feelings, as the show was not very well received and did not have an extended run.

Getting word back from Sweeney Todd today, a mega fan of the show is going this afternoon. I will relay the report as soon as I get it! Btw, the early workshops of Young Frankenstein were SO much better than the finished “product”…!

[quote]That performance by Elaine WAS my introduction to the song and I loved it. Granted, some of the references didn't land and no, she was never a slow eyed vamp, but otherwise it was brilliantly delivered. What is it missing?

For one thing, those notes at the end ARE supposed to be sung notes, not horrifying screams that could wake the dead.

P.S. The expression is "sloe-eyed vamp." "Slow-eyed" makes it sound like the person has some sort of a ophthalmologic condition.

That Burnett story about the FOLLIES concert has always struck me as bullshit. On the one hand, I do believe the ORIGINAL, original plan was to just make an audio recording of the complete score. Then everyone involved realized that, with all those stars involved, maybe they should do a live concert and charge big bucks for it. So it's possible that, when the project was first mentioned to Burnett, the live concert had not yet been booked?

But I'm playing devil's advocate here, because even if all that is true, it completely defies all credibility that Burnett didn't find out till A WEEK BEFORE THE CONCERT that she and her fellow stars would be singing live on stage in front of a full audience at Avery Fisher Hall -- and that she found out only because Beverly Sills mentioned it to her in passing. I mean, when was the production planning to be in touch with her about rehearsals, sound check, costuming, publicity, etc., etc.?

Yawnnnnn. Start a dedicated Follies thread. That way, you can all masturbate together as long as you want without interruptions from discussion of the 4000 other shows.

A week-and-a-half until Hadestown reaches 1,000 performances. Moulin Rouge has just over 150 more shows to go.

Saw Sweeney last night. It's a non-event event. Annaleigh is hilarious as she fuses Miss Kitt with Mrs. Lovett, but Groban is lost. He sings it well (even though his voice isn't perfectly matched) but he's just lost as an actor. Kail's direction is fine, with a few inspired moments, but not that far from every other productions we've seen. Choreography needs pruning.

Why are you all so afraid to say the problem with the original production of Parade was Hal Prince? It was terribly staged. I've always thought of post-1981 Prince as no more than a traffic cop. He ruined Parade. That score is glorious, the book is creaky but good. The original Parade would have won Best Musical had it not been for Hal's lousy direction.

If Carlotta is supposed to be a sexpot, how exactly does Stritchy fit that bill?

[quote]a slow eyed vamp

Bonnie Franklin?

One t, r499.

[quote]A week-and-a-half until Hadestown reaches 1,000 performances.

Good on them, r498.

Anybody know if Tom Hewitt is still in this?

Patti LuPone gave interviews that she was asked to do the revival of Hello Dolly after Gypsy, but that Jerry Herman didn’t want to update the book, and therefore, LuPone passed.

This makes no sense Update it to Argentina in the '40s and '50s?

I DON’T BRAY.

I think you’re all being a bit hard on Carol Burnett. It was a concert recording not the entire book and/or production. At the time, the show had never been revived - which was understood to be unlikely if not impossible - and if people had any familiarity with it, it was from the very truncated Capitol recording. It was something that was referred to but was hardly well known. All the concert cast had to do was kind of suggest a character, which was largely their own.

It didn’t matter that Patinkin was too young for Buddy - and what was wrong with Hearn as Ben? He delivered an appropriately stately vocal performance suggesting a man of some influence. Remick and Cook were perfectly cast - maybe Remick was a bit light compared to Alexis Smith but she fit the bill. Cook, as you know, was a musical ingenue who vocally was perfect for Sally. Burnett had a long history - both personally and professionally - that was all that was required for her to put over the song, in a distinctive way. It may not be everybody’s favourite version but it emphasised the lyric and delivered a kind of melancholy and determination which is what the song is about. Who cares about this sex pot bullshit. It was a listening experience not a production.

And even when it was recorded and released, no one ever expected it to be revived and then MacIntosh took his Les Miz and Phantom money and revived it in the West End - it was likely the concert recording that prompted him to take up that challenge.

There’s something exciting about performers taking up a challenge with little to no rehearsal, just running on instinct and the recording definitely captures that with the added benefit that it’s live and full of purpose. It’s still my favourite recording of the show.

I like Carol's version of "I'm Still Here" -- it helps that the '85 Follies was my introduction to it -- but I'm now wondering how she would have done singing "Can That Boy Foxtrot?"

Hercules reviews.

I’m too lazy to click on the links. Were all the reviews negative?

It wasn't Patinkin's youth that was the problem, it was his usual hammy, narcissistic, indulgent crap, especially in the "Blues" number and his insistence on playing all the roles.

Plus, Follies will never be cast again as it was in the original production with “stars of yesteryear”. That era and opportunity is long gone. The only opportunity there is in the casting of One More Kiss - which is spellbinding - because you could always cast an elderly classical star of the opera stage and an up and coming talent. But otherwise, no. Women have changed, as has aging and show business, etc. The concert casting had something of an opportunity to capitalise on the players’ bios - not all of them - but some but even that was more knowing than it was in the original production.

I remember seeing Phantom in New York within days of it opening back in 1988 or whenever it was - Lloyd-Webber’s wife, Sarah Brightman, was still doing every show as they hadn’t put her double/matinee Christine in yet (and the double was supposed to do a night performance too like Murphy did in Dolly). I think the reviews were barely out. For all of the hype, it was very underwhelming. I was just a young man in my early 20s, on my own, and at intermission I turned to the older gentleman next to me and said something like, “Is it just me or is this really underwhelming?”

And this old theatre queen said, “Oh my goodness! YOU SHOULD’VE SEEN FOLLIES!! This is nothing! When those old broads made their entrance and came down the staircase at the beginning I BURST INTO TEARS!!”

There was more magic in that exchange than anything Phantom had to offer. And if he were alive today, I’m sure than man would be a DL-er.

From the Hercules reviews:

[quote] Robert Horn and Kwame Kewei-Armah wrote the often-humorous book. They factor in civil engagement, the value of failure, and reinforce Meg’s no need for a man to do what a woman can do better.

[quote]“Hercules” is no longer a myth. It’s a mystery. Or at least it’s bewildering how a production teeming with such spectacular talent might result in a musical so soulless and forgettable.

[quote]Whether Disney has struck gold at the same level as when Newsies premiered over a decade ago at Paper Mill remains to be seen, however. This production can certainly go the distance (sorry I had to!!) as it heads to Germany next year, and I imagine we might see it back in the States sometime in the near future. You just let me know when I can see the Muses together again, and you can bet that Grecian urn I will be there.

[quote]If any director other than Julie Taymor were to shape and give “Hercules” heart it would be Lear deBessonet who displayed a deft, creative touch with the recent Encores and Broadway production of “Into The Woods.” Where she used minimalism to great effect, “Hercules” is often adrift with too much on stage with no conclusive clear path. The two battle scenes are fuzzily choreographed leaving the actors and puppeteers adrift and audience unimpressed.

Two "renowned" theater critics give their views on " Sweeney Todd."

Didn't Mandy stop the orchestra during a performance of Buddy's Blues and ask to start over?

[quote] Robert Horn and Kwame Kewei-Armah wrote the often-humorous book.

So is this how it's going to be now? Every musical needs to have an AA writer on board whether or not they are suited to the project or even have any experience? (I'm looking at you, Amber Ruffin.)

Company, Follies, and A Chorus Line will *always* be, "You had to see the original production". In 1970, 1971 and 1975 (respectively), they were form-changing and in the moment. When the audience left the theatre, it was *that* NYC they walked out into. Now all three are period pieces. That aspect can never be recreated. Follies can only work being set in 1971 and Company and A Chorus Line aren't comfortable fits for updating.

Is anyone still aghast that poster upthread considers Fredric from A Little Night Music a vocally challenging role?

They probably mean, they want a singer and not a stylist.

[Quote] but her harsh belting.

Yvonne DeCarlo's belt wasn't exactly a freight train slathered in honey.

[quote] When the audience left the theatre, it was *that* NYC they walked out into. Now all three are period pieces.

That’s the way it was for me with Falsettoland. It was 1990 and I saw it at the Lortel. After the show, I was walking along Christopher Street, gay mecca, and the show was so real to me.

[quote]Company, Follies, and A Chorus Line will *always* be, "You had to see the original production".

The 2019 London revival of Company was better than the original production.

[Quote] As most here know, except for John McMartin, all four of the other leads brought a genuinely honest nostalgic value to their performances that few succeeding actors could achieve.

And yet the NT production worked, apart from a few staging and design issues (Loveland, Lucy and Jessie). And with Brits to boot!

R522 You really want to fuck Dick and Jonty. right?

R517 that's a great post.

My favorite version of I'm Still Here was the Ann Miller version at the Papermill Playhouse. Now she knew of what she sang and was beyond glorious.

Regarding Follies, over 500 posts have come and gone yet we still learn more and more Follies stories. I was not familiar with the Carol Burnett story!

Finally, regarding my black Hercules post..... I have been hearing about increasing African-American attendance and participation for over 30 years. It has gotten worse. Much worse. Both Audra and August Wilson would not have been the successes they were if they came up today. Their talents would be misused if not ignored.

As we all sat and watched the Some Like It Hot performance on The View, my Mom's wonderful home health care aide, from the Cayman Islands, made a very disgusted, disproving face when she realized the tall black performer in the dress was a man after I told them he had the Jack Lemon part.

Yes that is only one example, but as the box office confirms, the black audience is not guaranteed for the majority of these productions. It's lovely to see representation on stage but it seems some also want to see what is being represented. Being black is not enough, nor should it be.

The bootleg video of Ann doing "I'm Still Here" is very unimpressive. She's just doing her Ann Miller thing. But the studio recording is a wonderful interpretation by Ann.

[quote]Choreography needs pruning.

Do they need to ditch the freewheeling meat parlor number?

R522, absolutely not. In its attempt at modernization, the show became depressingly retrograde and sexist, because the material doesn't work with a female lead. In the original version, the idea that this man needed to learn how to make a connection and find a relationship was plausible and not offensive. On the other hand, watching a woman be browbeaten by her so-called friends and constantly told she's not really living unless she's with someone, until she finally whimpers, "Who's going to take care of me?" constantly raised the question..."Why can't a woman be alone? What's wrong with these people?"

In this context, "Alone is alone, not alive," played less as a revelation than a depressing capitulation to society's expectations of women.

Hasn't it been said that Latifah was actually offended at the offer do "Dolly!"? I wonder how it was proposed to her. If they namedropped Pearl Bailey, that may have set her off.

The crazy part is that 'Hercules' SHOULD be a grand slam for Disney. It's such a charming, funny, fast paced movie with a terrific book and score. They simply hired the wrong director, who cast the wrong actors and overlaid a shit concept on top of a storytelling device that already works in spades. The movie was set up like a Greek play, complete with a chorus narrating/commenting on the proceedings. Why they couldn't steer into some ancient Greek theatrical devices and heighten them (and in a way that only Disney can) is beyond me. It seems like THAT should be the concept they're playing within.

There should be zero issue in casting a black man in the lead role -- the only issue should be casting a black man who's completely out to lunch in the part. And that goes for any role. Cast the most talented, period. And not for the sake of optics and allyship and checking AEA quotas. While valiant, those things have no bearing on the success of the show -- TALENT is the thing that saves the day.

Inglehart is completely wrong for that scrappy, prizefighter coach role. They need someone to pay off that archetype they way DeVito did so well. OR reimagine the role completely. But this middle ground just kills any momentum or stakes from forming in that relationship.

The show would benefit from a little more theatrical whimsy and grandeur -- a Matthew Warchus would be perfect at balancing tone and stage craft. The book also sounds like there's been too many cooks in the kitchen. This would be a bigger hit than Mermaid, Newsies and Frozen combined if they just let the show play out as it did so winningly in the film.

[Quote] Both Audra and August Wilson would not have been the successes they were if they came up today. Their talents would be misused if not ignored.

What an odd comment.

[quote]Hercules reviews.

Our "Hercules must be white!" poster will be disappointed that the New York Times didn't step up to the plate and excoriate the production for casting a black actor in the title role, thus helping to end all of this nontraditional casting nonsense.

In the video at r442 - It does boggle my mind that stage management didn't step in and completely shut that nonsense down. An actress can just be attacked, unprovoked, in a rehearsal and no one steps in??

The biggest problem with FOLLIES in Concert was commiting the original sin of trying to lighten things up and end on a hopeful note. Mandy singing "Buddy's Blues" like the dog song in Sunday is also pretty excruciating.

Are they talking about Colm Wilkinson and Rebecca Caine?

R507: Musical theatre songs are not just songs, they're also theatre. And even though FOLLIES IN CONCERT was mostly a concert, all (or most) of the score was presented, with the songs in the order of the dramatic context of the show, and though there weren't many lines from the book included in the performance, there were some. For all these reasons, some of us feel that the concert should have been cast with performers who fit the roles in terms of age, type, etc., but this was not the case with most of the casting for this event.

I remember Barbara Cook saying that she was seen for the original production but that she looked "too good." Sure, Barb.

[quote]The biggest problem with FOLLIES in Concert was commiting the original sin of trying to lighten things up and end on a hopeful note.

I assume the justification for doing so was because the show as written doesn't end with a song, just that brief, haunting reprise of "Hey, up there!" followed by those haunting calls of "Hi....girls....Ben...Sally." So I guess they wanted to give the concert more of a musical ending. But it was still a horrendous decision and one of the major missteps of a performance that was very inconsistent and problematic to begin with.

Bringing it back to THIS century: if you are going to see A DOLL'S HOUSE, you must, must, must sit on the right side of the house or you will miss la exit, coup de theatre, non-door-slam-door-slam. And I mean from the right-hand side of the center over.

They should have hired Susan Anton to stalk the stage in showgirl costume.

I was young enough to have seen the original A Chorus Line, Company, and Follies and cannot imagine any revival bettering them. I have seen 3 Company's (Raul was terrific), 5 Follies (OK, but Gregory Harrison and Treat Williams were some hot men). I cannot imagine any revival of A Chorus Line working, and would never want to see one anyway.

Oh, and while I'm here, I also saw Sweeny #1 in previews, and no one will ever be better than that cast! Len Cariou had a deep sadness under the anger, and Lansbury was a perfect comic foil. Ken Jennings, and old buddy, was a wonderful Tobias. Listen to his Not While I'm Around on the OBC.

[quote]And yet the NT production worked, apart from a few staging and design issues (Loveland, Lucy and Jessie). And with Brits to boot!

Nobody said it didn't work, r523, although it had its faults. My point is that the action of those shows is no longer contemporary to their audiences. The resonance was stronger. The audiences didn't have to wonder what telephone services or Beebe's Bathysphere were.

R515, yes, he did.

Ah, Mandy...and yet he was brilliant in Evita and Sunday in the Park, for which he should have one the Tony over George Hearn.

Ann Miller by that age was so wrong for Carlotta. But she was Ann friggin' Miller so you went with it.

Who’s had him? I have a friend who had him pre-pandemic/rehab. I’m glad for his recovery☮️

[quote]Ah, Mandy...and yet he was brilliant in Evita and Sunday in the Park, for which he should have one the Tony over George Hearn.

Maybe Mandy would have won if it weren't for the excruciating dog song.

Can we please title the next thread: "WOW, A BLACK HERCULES... GO FIGURE. NY IS SO WOKE" EDITION.

In honor of our elder brother upthread.

But it's okay, kids, because his elderly mother's home health aid is from the Cayman Islands, and she doesn't much care for black people onstage, either, apparently.

r547 - I didn't know any of that either and, yes, glad he's in recovery. He's a wonderful actor. I hope he'll continue to have opportunities which, even given his high profile as one of the more recognizable deaf actors, must remain challenging.

R517 - I'm younger than you (born 1980), but you summarized my feeling on those three shows so well. Even though I wasn't there for them in the 1970s, they are undeniably now period pieces, linked to the time and place of their creation. It's one of the (many) reasons that contemporary conceptions of Company never work for me.

Pie? Did someone say The Pie?!

N.B.

Late in life, my Dad told me that his 12-year old self got the biggest “hard-on” from LT in this movie.

IIIIIIIIIIIIII...!!!!!

Nobody in with decision-making ability yet realizes the box office has the final say, not the New York Times ot the Woke brigade on and off Twitter.

I was just saying to friends, "How about a new musical about Mozart's sister?"

[quote]Can we please title the next thread: "WOW, A BLACK HERCULES... GO FIGURE. NY IS SO WOKE" EDITION.

Okay, let's do that............

Seth and Miss Graff...

What do you mean there's gonna be a fuckin' audience?

[Quote] especially in the "Blues" number and his insistence on playing all the roles

Do we know he insisted?

[Quote] My opinion is exactly the opposite. For whatever reason(s), the original production did not quite work for me. And it seems many people shared my feelings, as the show was not very well received and did not have an extended run.

So you were right. Nyah nyah nyah. Insufferable

Seth & Rebecca

The New York Times would never say a black actor is inappropriate casting for a role. Never. But what was refreshing was that they told the truth about his performance (or at least how the critic felt about his performance) and didn't lie or omit because he was black. It shouldn't matter if one casts a non-white actor as Hercules. But one should not cast a non-white actor as Hercules simply for optics if that actor doesn't have the talent to pull it off. And apparently this one does not. And that is where I hope this sort of thing crashes and burns. Cast the most talented person for the role. If you cast someone merely because you're trying to play to a trend, then you're doing a disservice to everyone.

The solution is simple, r562. Just cast *two* Hercules.

Tonya Pinkins *IS* Hercules!

[quote]I don't know if anyone has really made Buddy as much of a dance role since Gene Nelson's superb performance.

R437, there was a production of FOLLIES recently in San Francisco, where during the dance break in THE RIGHT GIRL, the actor playing Buddy actually danced with Young Buddy - a pas de deux. While the older actor was not a dancer, the younger Buddy was, and the effect was quite good. The older Buddy was "telling" the younger Buddy, who was waiting around at the bottom of the stairs, to look elsewhere. Think of how effective the pas de deux was in BILLY ELLIOT. And it made sense, both in the placement of the moment and the execution of the dance. That production had outstanding choreography, BTW.

[quote]That production had outstanding choreography, BTW.

Apparently Phyllis couldn't do it in heels.

Did anyone post this latest rehearsal video from New York New York? She sings well, but there's a lack of...emotion? Intensity? It is just a rehearsal though, and maybe the context is different in the show than in the movie with the new plot.

Liza's version

New thread for when the time comes, going with r343's highly rated title suggestion (because god knows we don't need to poke the bear with mentions of wokeness in the title).

Thank you, r569. To say that I'm thrilled to pieces is an understatement.

And thank you, r343. I was keeping my fingers crossed. It's better than winning Publisher's Clearing House.

A Doll's House opens Thursday. Any predictions on the reviews?

You know, I'd never bothered to listen to Bajour before, but always figured it was a terrible joke of a musical based on how it's mentioned here. But when I learned Herb Edelman was in it, my Golden Girls affection led me to Youtube to give it a listen...and it's actually pretty good? At least I found it really fun (and discovered I'd been mispronouncing it in my head all this time). One of the comments on the video of Chita's TV performance bitches about the lyrics, but...I still enjoyed it.

This is fun too.

I'll have to dig out my copy of Not Since Carrie, but I remember Bajour getting a semi-favorable mention.

A bunch of flops have enjoyable recordings, r573. Many times the book was the cause for failure.

[quote]Cast the most talented person for the role. If you cast someone merely because you're trying to play to a trend, then you're doing a disservice to everyone.

Thank you. Unfortunately Broadway seems to be falling into the latter, the proverbial " Re-thought for a modern audience" shit. It's a gimmick and , since there isn't a lick of creativity left, the lemmings have to follow. " Let's cast the leading role black or let's make the woman powerful, even though she was not written that way. Man, everyone will think we are daring and contemporary. Let's eliminate the white male leads, because our political demographic is in bed with " diversity and female empowerment." Leave the established shows alone and write new ones for a "modern audience" and see how that goes. But, this lemming philosophy denigrates the work of its originators and shows the lack of imagination permeating Broadway.

[quote]At least I found it really fun (and discovered I'd been mispronouncing it in my head all this time).

Does that mean it isn't pronounced like "Bonjour" with "Ba" subbing for "Bon"?

Bajour has fabulous orchestrations by Mort Lindsey, who also was the orchestrator for early 60s Judy Garland and Barbra Streisand. Bajour was his only Broadway musical and his work goes a long way in making that score sound as good as it does.

[quote]Bajour has fabulous orchestrations by Mort Lindsey, who also was the orchestrator for early 60s Judy Garland and Barbra Streisand.

He was the conductor for Judy at Carnegie Hall.

You want a '60s sound?

Just watched the Meredith Wilson documentary. Had no idea he had such an amazing life. And was kinda cute.

As stupid as Bajour probably was live, the score is great. And a really wonderful recording.

Willson

R583 Oh shit, yes.

Unfortunately he only had 1 1/2 shows in him.

R585 But the rest of his life was cool.

The quality and craftsmanship of Music Man is such that it's really too bad that he didn't have a couple more close to that level.

Is this Meredith Willson documentary online?

"Why run away from/Mayhem that may come"

"Love is a chance/Chance to be happy/Flighty and fleeting/Here like quicksilver then gone!/Heigh ho, quicksilver!/I'm riding with you!/Whether it's hither or yon!"

Love these lyrics. Not immortal, but so much fun. (And delivered beautifully by Ms. Dussault.)

[quote]There was a production of FOLLIES recently in San Francisco, where during the dance break in THE RIGHT GIRL, the actor playing Buddy actually danced with Young Buddy - a pas de deux.

That number was done the same way many years ago in the Paper Mill production, with Tony Roberts and Billy Hartung as Buddy and Young Buddy. There too, Roberts was/is not really a dancer, but that concept for the number still worked really well.

The Paper Mill FOLLIES had some joys, but you could see why Steve wouldn't want it to come to Broadway.

We got the original mirror choreography...there was that.

I assume a lovely eldergay is behind the Follies of God Facebook group. They're always posting interesting 20th century pop culture tidbits.

[quote]"There was so much cruelty directed toward Patti [LuPone], so much envy. Students came into Juilliard, and they were like mounds of clay, inside of which was the talent, the great performances--but Patti came in and she was a mountain. There was no one else like her. Huge talent, will, intelligence. Of course she was a disorganized person, because it was the first time she had been asked to work on her talent and herself, and I wanted to protect her, wanted to gently lead her toward discovery.

[quote]"John Houseman hired me for what he called my gentleness, my awareness of literature, and he would ask me what we could do about Patti. It bothered John that Patti didn't know poems or plays by memory. He would make quips, and Patti appreciated them, but she didn't know the source. I thought this was cruel. It was snobbery. I told John this. I loved John, but he was often guilty of forcing an actor into a particular mold.

[quote]"I told him that Patti was a big, flawless diamond. Stunning, brilliant, and instead of placing this diamond in its perfect setting, caring for it, we were looking at it and asking why it couldn't be more like an emerald. We had emeralds at Juilliard. We had rubies. We had diamonds. Let them be what they are. The world will thank us, and I think the world is grateful that Patti is intact and fully herself."

[quote]--Marian Seldes on Patti LuPone / Interview with James Grissom/2000

And, love these promotional photos for John Houseman's Acting Company featuring Patti, Kevin Klein and Norman Snow.

That's a great quote from Seldes, R593. Thanks for sharing!

Norman Snow on the cover of After Dark

Patti's...

Although official filming was in its infancy, did full shoots ever take place for the Shakespeare In The Park productions in the 70s? Obviously, the Jones/Lear and a few others (Penzance, etc.) have been released, but is there more that exists?

Specifically, the Taming of the Shrew with M and Raul Julia. While extensive footage exists in the doc about it, does the full show exist somewhere or is it like FOLLIES concert where only portions were filmed? Just curious.

LINE!

Everybody....

LINE!

LINE!

LINE!

LINE!

Bajour!