Let’s be Gone With The Wind

"I don't know nuffin bout birthin no babies"

Miss Scarlett shoLyinfuld have stuck a knife in her head a few times!!

I'm the marital rape.

I'm the knife under the bed. It cuts the pain.

I’m the Yankee Wilkerson and the white-trash Slattery girl.

I'm the stairway to fucking.

I'm the small rotten radishes.

I'm the Turner Classic Movies "context" that now introduces showings of the film.

I'm Bonnie Blue's fully deserved death.

r7 You can also call me Jacqueline Stewart.

I'm the reason why Aunt Pittypat calls her head house-slave "Pork"!

I'm Ona Munson's inappropriately twangy Oregon accent used to play Belle Watling.

"He'll be coming to Atlanta when he gets his leave and you's sitting there waiting for him just like a spider!"

I'm matte paintings, which saved an enormous amount of time and money and created grand illusions.

I'm R1, that word should be the word "SHOULD"

I asked for a dl t-shirt and a Edit button for Christmas,

I'm the drapes that Carol Burnett fashions into a stunning new dress

I'm George Reeves and before I got typecast for running around in blue long underwear and shilling cereal to kids I got great notices for my role in this movie. My god what did I do to my career. Somebody shoot me.

[quote] I'm the reason why Aunt Pittypat calls her head house-slave "Pork"!

Pork was Gerald's butler/valet/house slave. Pitty's house servant was Uncle Peter. He was one of the strongest, wisest characters in GWTW. In fact he makes decisons for Pitty because she's too stupid to make them herself. On his deathbed the Old Colonel told Peter to take care of his children Charles and Melanie and Pitty too, because she "ain' got no mo' sense dan a hoopergrass."

[quote] Pork was Gerald's butler/valet/house slave.

We's house servants.

I’m the “happy slave” who’d like to see a little more of the world…. What’s that you say? A slight problem?

I’m the amputation scene.

I will NEVER go hungry again!

Where are my knee pads?

I’m being rich, as in “Pork, we sho is rich now!”

I’m the piece of red earth thrown at Isabel Jewel’s head.

R16, thank you so much! I’ve seen GWTW several times and never realized that one of the Tarleton twins went on to play Superman.

We're Wade Hampton Hamilton and Ella Kennedy. Our bitch of a mother, Scarlett O'Hara Hamilton Kennedy Butler, ignores us so much, we don't even make the transition from the book to the movie.

I’m that white trash Emmie Slattery

I'm prostrate with grief. Mammy has informed Rhett of this.

I’m Mammy, the wisest one in the bunch.

“What gemp’muns says and what they does is two quite diff’runt things. And besides, I ain’t noticed Mistuh Ashley askin’ fuh ta marry you!”

Smirk. Smirk.

I’m the bonnet Scarlett put on upside down.

I’m the begging that MGM had to do in order to get the Academy to allow Hattie McDaniel to attend the Oscar ceremony. Or was it the Academy who begged the venue to allow her in?

I'm the knife what you puts under the bed to cut the pain (for delivery AND conception).

I'm Belle's pink powder puff.

I’m Margaret Mitchell’s novel.

In me, she writes approvingly of slavery, class divisions, the KKK and for that, she is deplorable; yes that correct word.

And yet, she didn’t intend this, but, I’m also an expository.

Ignore the film.

Read me to know why race relations and class divisions within the US still are what they are in 2023.

It’s all in me.

I'm the last of the Madeira.

I'm also 40 acres and a mule.

I'm the Eau de Cologne Scarlett vainly gargles with to hide the unladylike smell of brandy on her breath. Sorry about it, Scarlett!

I'm Bertha Venation

I'm Scarlett lounging in bed the morning after with a post coital glow.

[quote] I'm also 40 acres and a mule.

AND a mule?

I’m Mammy’s rustling red silk petticoat.

I’m Mrs. O’Hara’s home altar.

I’m mules dressed in horses’ harnesses.

Bowie at R31, are you the same knife as at R3?

I’m Scarlett in a scarlet dress with deep décolletage because Rhett made me wear it for my sins.

I’m Big Sam.

[quote] I’m Big Sam.

Big Sam! Big Sam!

I am the "thieving Yankee soldier" looking for valuables at Tara, but then I see Scarlett...YUMMY-then DEATH!!

I’m quittin’ time.

I'm the 1967 reframing for 70MM which was a big success and gave the film a new life but is now looked down upon by cineastes because it cuts out part of the image.

I'm 70MM which the film should have been filmed in the first place because I go back to the early 30s used for the film The Bat Whispers.

I'm the fittin' that it is not.

I’m the damn that Rhett frankly did not give.

I'm Miss Scarlett's bosom. I can't shown before 3:00.

[quote] In me, she writes approvingly of slavery, class divisions, the KKK and for that, she is deplorable; yes that correct word.

Since the story is being told from the viewpoint of white slave owning Southerners that seems to make sense. You don't have the sense God gave a goat.

Miss Scarlett! Miss Scarlett!

Oh God! What is it now?!

I don’t know nothin bout givin no abortions!

I'm Scarlett, being carried forcefully upstairs by Rhett, knowing I'm about to get SERVED.

I'm the ghost of George Cukor visible in all of Vivien's nuanced scenes.

I'm the DL poll which voted Vivien's performance the best Oscar winner of all time

I'm the grinding pain that would have ensued if the hopeless skinny woman —who assumed the name Paulette Godard— had been allowed to play in this epic.

I'm the sad geriatric Datalounger who consistently spells Vivien's name as Vivian.

I'm the foolishly-loyal but addled Vivien fan on Datalounge who insists that Vivien had a viable stage career (despite the fact he never saw any of it).

I'm the Emmy missing from Viv's Triple Crown Of Acting

I'm Olivia DeHavilland's realisation she was co-lead in the movie, disgusted she's been thrown to a Supporting category!

I'm the sad geriatric Datalounger who consistently corrects spelling mistakes.

I’m the threat to sell someone south.

I'm Lucille Ball and if only I hadn't shown up drunk at my screentest for Scarlet this could have been a pretty good movie. With me as Scarlet teamed up with Olivia as Melanie we could have had wacky adventures all across the South.

And the red dress would have gone so well with my hair.

I can just hear Rheett say "Scarlet, you got some splaining to do!"

I'm Mrs. O'Hara's corpse on display in the parlor.

I’m the British nanny who left Bonnie Blue alone in the dark in London….and got sacked for the perfectly sensible advice not to pander to the whining brat.

[quote]I’m the begging that MGM had to do in order to get the Academy to allow Hattie McDaniel to attend the Oscar ceremony. Or was it the Academy who begged the venue to allow her in?

R30 Why would the Academy not allow her to attend a ceremony where she was nominated by them for their own award? (And was so popular with voters that she won the Award.) It makes no sense.

I'm green, Scarlett's signature color. It matches her eyes.

I'm the Tarleton twins having a wank, thinking about Scarlett's tiny bosoms

[quote] It makes no sense.

The heart has its reasons.

R67, the hotel where the ceremony was held was whites only, the Ambassador Hotel in LA.

I'm the individual in 2023 wondering why David Selznick couldn't threaten Atlanta with not holding the premiere there if Hattie McDaniel was not allowed to attend when almost every film premiere was held in LA or NY. I'm also the individual wondering which studio head called McDaniel threatening her with no further work if she didn't talk Gable into going to the premiere. Gable probably knew what was going on and didn't want to fuck up her career.

I'm the wildly inappropriate age differences between several of the main couples:

Gerald O'Hara is 43 when he marries 15-year-old Ellen Robillard; 40-year-old Frank Kennedy is wooing 15-year-old Suellen O'Hara (and later marries Scarlett, who is still in her early 20s); Rhett Butler is 35 when he first spies 16-year-old Scarlett.

The closest couples in age are Scarlett and Charles Hamilton, who is probably 21 or 22 to her 16, and Melanie and Ashley, who is probably 24 or 25 to her 17.

I’m the land. I’m the only thing that lasts.

R74 - Yes, this is correct. The ironic thing about that is that Tara (well, the 3/4 exterior, at least) is now a crummy parking lot for a nondescript light-industry park.

I'm the dress that Rhett chose for Scarlett to wear to Ashley's birthday party. I am NOT whore red; I am Scarlett's trademark green: "her new jade-green watered silk dress It was cut low over the bosom and the skirt was draped back over and enormous bustle and on the bustle was a huge bunch of pink velvet roses."

I'm Rhett Butler and after thinking it over I really DID give a damn.

Damn!

I always thought the “woman caught in adultery” book dress sounded prettier.

R7That's the hotel, not "The Academy."

I'm a Scarlett doll.

I'm the loss of religious faith Livvie experienced after losing the Oscar she was sure she'd win

I'm the dreary and endless back story of Ellen O'Hara's family -- THE Robillards of Charleston, mind you -- that got mercifully cut from the movie.

[quote]The ironic thing about that is that Tara (well, the 3/4 exterior, at least)

However, what was left of the facade was saved.

I'm the damn musical.

I'm Superman. One day one of the Tarleton Twins will star as me on TV.

[quote]I'm a Scarlett doll.

That looks more like a Katie Porter doll.

I'm the pony that Rhett shot dead.

I'm Mexico. We want officers in the army.

R85 = R16

I'm the hole in Charles Kennedy's pocket, through which Scarlett's dainty hand secures a marriage proposal.

I'm the field of dying confederates. Hell, if I really were as large as portrayed the south would redefine 'South America '.

I'm Scarlett's fake crying.

I'm the last uppity chicken in Atlanta, and I'm giving Uncle Peter a hell of a time!

I'm the thread from the embroidery Scarlett picked out of a shawl Rhett bought her and fashioned it into a dashing sash for Ashley.

I'm the failed coitus interruptus that led to Melly's demise

I'm confused. Are we Gone with the Wind the movie, Gone with the Wind the international best seller or Gone with the both?

I'm both, R95.

I'm the rapey hardon that filthy Yankee soldier has just before Scarlett blows him away on Tara's stairs

We're missing Miss Ellens earbobs. They're probably with Mr. O'Haras sanity.

I’m the slave girl fanning the white ladies as they nap in their skivvies.

I'm Consuela, the Mexican maid Mrs. O'Hara kept in the root cellar. We're out of Lemon Pledge.

That's Miz Sugarbaker, Consuela. Jesus, mi madre.

Consuelo!

I'm Scarlett's unattractive wedding dress, ill fitting because it belonged to Ellen.

R103, it just ain’t fitting.

I'm Scarlett's brandy. Rhett doesn't care if she likes me.

R95, I'm both too.

[Quote]I'm the dreary and endless back story of Ellen O'Hara's family -- THE Robillards of Charleston, mind you -- that got mercifully cut from the movie.

Actually, R82, I'd love to see a movie or book about the Robillards, from their flight from Haiti after to slave rebellion to their rise to the top of Savannah society (the Butlers are from Charleston).

Plus, I would watch the adventures of Phillipe Robillard, the cousin Ellen loved, who was the black sheep of the family. I bet he threw many a mean fuck before dying in a barroom brawl.

I'm Scarlett's forgotten children, Wade Hampton (timid and shy because of Scarlett's bullying) and Ella Lorena (brain damaged because of Scarlett's drinking while pregnant).

I'm fey, unattractive, yet lusted-after Ashley Wilkes.

I’m the rosary.

[quote]That's Miz Sugarbaker, Consuela. Jesus, mi madre.

Um, actually the joke is from Family Guy.

Um, really sorry I don't have a PhD in Family Guy.

I’m India Wilke’s and I would NOT walk down the street to get noticed. I think Scarlett is hateful.

I am the poor horse that Scarlett whipped to DEATH. Fucking whore O'Hara tramp!!

What r106 said.

I'm "Feeleep! Feeleep!", Ellen "O'Hara's last words.

“I’m no lady!!!”

Ooops

That is I would not walk down the street naked to get noticed.

And I still think Scarlett is hateful.

I'm Cathleen Calvert and I am, after Scarlett, the most popular belle in the County before the War.

By the end of the book, I am married to the Yankee overseer at Pine Bloom and, if not already, will soon be dipping snuff.

I'm John Wilkes, the perfect Southern gentleman. I do not believe in war and secession but go to fight in the war anyway despite being nearly 70 because the South is desperate for men and being a Southern gentleman I feel it my duty to go. I end up being blown to bits by a shell, along with Mrs. Tarleton's beloved horse Nellie.

.[quote] I'm the Yankee artillery that blew Mr Wilkes to pieces. West Point trained Rhett tried to warn them.but would they listen?

𝑀𝑟. 𝐻𝑎𝑚𝑖𝑙𝑡𝑜𝑛, 𝑡ℎ𝑒𝑟𝑒'𝑠 𝑛𝑜𝑡 𝑎 𝑐𝑎𝑛𝑛𝑜𝑛 𝑓𝑎𝑐𝑡𝑜𝑟𝑦 𝑖𝑛 𝑡ℎ𝑒 𝑤ℎ𝑜𝑙𝑒 𝑆𝑜𝑢𝑡ℎ.

𝑀𝑎𝑛 : 𝑊ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑑𝑖𝑓𝑓𝑒𝑟𝑒𝑛𝑐𝑒 𝑑𝑜𝑒𝑠 𝑡ℎ𝑎𝑡 𝑚𝑎𝑘𝑒, 𝑠𝑖𝑟, 𝑡𝑜 𝑎 𝑔𝑒𝑛𝑡𝑙𝑒𝑚𝑎𝑛?

𝐼'𝑚 𝑎𝑓𝑟𝑎𝑖𝑑 𝑖𝑡'𝑠 𝑔𝑜𝑖𝑛𝑔 𝑡𝑜 𝑚𝑎𝑘𝑒 𝑎 𝑔𝑟𝑒𝑎𝑡 𝑑𝑒𝑎𝑙 𝑜𝑓 𝑑𝑖𝑓𝑓𝑒𝑟𝑒𝑛𝑐𝑒 𝑡𝑜 𝑎 𝑔𝑟𝑒𝑎𝑡 𝑚𝑎𝑛𝑦 𝑔𝑒𝑛𝑡𝑙𝑒𝑚𝑒𝑛, 𝑠𝑖𝑟.

I'm Belle Watling's well-used ginger pussy

I'm India Wilkes.

No. I'M India Wilkes.

(Alicia Rhett and Howard Hickman)

R61 Olivia was delusional. (She was correct that she was not really a supporting actress, in GWTW. She was a second lead. But the Academy has no category for that.) It's funny though how she says she woke up and "realized" basically something with which she could delude herself forevermore. Rather than the truth, which she couldn't face, apparently. Voters thought Hattie McDaniel gave the better performance.

I’m the duck on the Junebug if you do not do as I say NOW!

I'm Uncle Henry Hamilton.

I'm closeted.

[Quote]I'm Belle Watling's well-used ginger pussy.

R120, she was a "dye-haired woman" to Mammy's shock and disgust. No way did Belle's carpet match the drapes. 😉

I'm Belle Watlings's son and "legal ward" of Rhett Butler.

I’m fiddle dee dee.

I’m the afternoon nap. The gentry love me. The ladies loosen or even remove their undergarments and the menfolk go off and be manly together. It’s truly a shame that I’m so brief and that I never visit the slave quarters but those people have full-time jobs.

[quote]I'm the damn musical.

The Japanese did both a musical and (earlier) a non-musical stage version, both were hours long. Asians playing white and black people. Which is fine with me, but imagine the uproar if the US tried to stage a version of a Japanese novel and cast non-Asians.

I am born...

R123 I loved that thread on how deluded Livvie was. Apparently because "People rooted for Melanie" that made her not supporting.

I’m the first printing of the original souvenir program for the roadshow release of GWTW. I’m the most valuable to acquire, because, among the many small illustrations of supporting players on the back cover, I include one of Hattie McDaniel as Mammy.

There was such antagonistic uproar over this that the second printing of the program replaced her with an illustration of Alicia Rhett as India Wilkes.

Such are the vagaries of public taste.

I'm David O. Selznick. MGM turned it down Gone with the wind so I produced it. Thalberg said, “Forget it, Louis. No Civil War picture ever made a nickel but Birth of a Nation was the biggest hit Hollywood ever produced and was a civil war picture so I bought the property for $50,000.

They wanted me to use Van Dyke as a director, known for his efficiency but I know what he would do, take the first take as long as they all remembered their lines. I picked George Cukor and when I saw the rushes they weren't great, shooting too slow. After two weeks the production was seven days behind schedule! Cukor directed only one scene with Gable, and he was on the set on each of the six-day work week. Gable didn't like him and it was dragging on and on. All things considered, hell, they’d stone Christ if he came back and spoke for four hours so I fired Cukor. Leigh and De Havilland didn't like that.

Got Victor Fleming to finish the picture. I was taking benzos and was a pain in the ass no sleep, driving every scene and Fleming had a nervous breakdown. After that he co-directed with Sam Wood but we didn't give Wood any credit. Still, Gone with the Wind is Hollywood's greatest contribution to the arts. 10 Oscars, best picture of '39. Hattie McDaniel, first black performer ever to win an Oscar.

I'm David O' Selznick

I am you, loyal DLer.

I absolutely knew what I was going to find at R135 's link before I clicked on it. :D

I'm Scarlett's sayings: "Fiddle-dee-dee!" "I won't think of it now; I'll think of it tomorrow/later , when I can stand it better." "Tomorrow is another day."

I am the "leftover Confederacy" after 1865 mumbling about the "carpetbagger& the uooity blacks." It isn't to be Born!! was the chant night after night at the supper tables.

Stupid Fucking morons...You should have had cannon factories below the Mason-Dixon line, Cotton, slaves and arrogance was not going to win the Civil War, Rhett Butler was correct!!

I'm Honey Wilkes, Ashley's other sister. I have an "understanding" with Charles Hamiliton that we will be married when he comes into his property because "the Wilkes always marry their cousins." But Scarlett steals him away out of spite. When India and I refugee to Macon I meet a man there there and eventually married him. So I got my happy ending: I caught a man.

[quote]I'm David O' Selznick

The Irish producer.

Bob Thomas (in his biography of DOS) wrote that Selznick decided he "needed a middle initial to give his name a more imposing look and sound. The important figures of the film world bore middle initials: Cecil B. De Mille, Louis B. Mayer." He settled on the letter "O," and his official name became David Oliver Selznick.

In the film of GWTW Melanie reads to the sewing circle from David Copperfield. In the novel she reads from Les Miserables. David Copperfield would have been a slightly older book, at the time. It was from the early 1850s while Les Mis. was from the early 1860s. Maybe David Copperfield was used so Melanie could read, and then repeat, the line, "I remember nothing."

I think Selznick also held the rights to it at the time.

I'm Aunt Eulalie. I assume I was a breech birth and my mama called me that in revenge.

I'm Savannah. I'm better for Scarlett than Atlanta. She just get in trouble in Atlanta.

Come to that, I'm a [italic]spi-dah.[/italic] Sittin' here waitin' for ya.

I'm the love for Scarlett which Rhett conceals in the book but flaunts in the movie

[quote] I'm the love for Scarlett which Rhett conceals in the book but flaunts in the movie

Which is one of the reasons why, r145, besides its glorification of slavery and the KKK, that I think the movie is so morally bad and artistically flawed.

Yes, I get it.

Novels and movies aren't the same product once they've moved from one form of media to another.

But what you've written is so correct and conveys what is the singular, tragic element of the "love story between Rhett and Scarlett.

The GWTW screenplay is a total misfire.

R146 I wouldn't call it a misfire, especially as most movie audiences need things telegraphed for them. It didn't take away from the story for me but certainly took some of the power out of the final confrontation between the two

Understood, r147.

R141 That's possible, I just assumed both books were in the public domain by then. It never occurred to me they had to obtain the rights, so Melanie could quote from an old novel like that. But maybe so.

[quote]Which is one of the reasons why, [R145], besides its glorification of slavery and the KKK, that I think the movie is so morally bad and artistically flawed.

The South is shown to be wrongheaded at the start, with Rhett's speech at Twelve Oaks. The film is hardly pushing the Southern agenda. At most, it's showing the Southerners to have been vainglorious and foolish. Of course it presents some nobility and so forth. But the point of the movie was not to start another Civil War. The KKK is not shown or mentioned in the film. First, nobody making the film was in favor of the KKK, or depicting it in a good light. And second, Selznick was meeting with the NAACP and trying to meet their demands when he could.

I'm the universally trusted alibi of having just come from Ms. Watlings. Yankee, southerner, it's a universally accepted 'man' thing. And damn you if you site her name in the presence of real 'ladies', especially the wives!

Did Belle do anal?

[quote] besides its glorification of slavery and the KKK,

I never got the impression that slavery and the KKK were "glorified" in either the book or the movie. They were just parts of a long, involved story.

Consensus is that GWTW makes slavery out to be wonderful and that all the slaves are happy, content, simpleminded and loyal to their moasters. But of the hundred or so slaves at tARA ONLY three remain after the Yankees come through. It's the same at the neighboring plantations; a few slaves remain but most embrace their freedom. As for them all being dumb, well, Prissy was cetainly an airhead. And Big Sam was a man child. But two of the wisest, strongest characters are Peter and Mammy.

The KKKi is depicted but I woulldn't call it "glorified." It was vigilantism and it was considered very dangrous, nothing that was "glorified." Later in the book Rhett tells Scarlett that he and Ashely Wilkes caused the Klan in that area to cease to be. He tells her Ashely was against it because he was against violence of any sort and Rhett considered it "damned foolishness" that prevented the South from moving forward politically. I didn't get the impression that the Klan was presented in a positive light at all.

I'm a slave who came back from the past and just watched Gone with the wind. Huh? Where's all the part about how we was whipped and...but other than that it's a good movie...

(Ok, I'm shown here as white with red hair, they changed me through the reincarnation process, it's me. I was. I was a slave. I swear. No kidding.)

I'm Ben Mankiewicz and when I must introduce this movie I wish Gable had been blacklisted so I could ramble on about that for a half hour until the movie starts.

[quote]Um, really sorry I don't have a PhD in Family Guy.

Yet you seem to have one in Designing Women.

[quote] Yet you seem to have one in Designing Women.

Simply reading datalounge for a year or two would be sufficient study for this

Selznick, Cukor, and Ben Hect (who wrote a lot of the film, uncredited), plus Leslie Howard and composer Max Steiner were Jewish, so I doubt they'd allow the film to glorify the KKK.

*Hecht

I’m Dr. Meade. I have no idea how infectious diseases spread from one person to another. If I wash my hands between patients, it is done only out of personal fastidiousness because the discoveries happening in Europe in this very decade haven't reached this backwater yet. Many of the soldiers I treat will die of infections caused by me.

My entire formulary of genuinely useful drugs consists of quinine, digitalis and opium and its derivatives. I have no idea what aspirin or insulin are, let alone penicillin. I routinely prescribe highly toxic mercury and arsenic compounds to treat various diseases, including the unmentionable ones acquired at Miss Watling’s, uh, establishment. I'm really more of a menace than a help.

Oh, and chloroform, which I've run out of, by the way. Do you happen to have any?

I’m the convicts Scarlet leases for her lumber mill.

I'm Scarlett's business acumen, only alluded to briefly but I could give Rhett's a run for the money 💰💰💰

If memory serves, in the book Captain Butler was appalled by Scarlett’s leasing of convicts. Her doing so made Scarlett repugnant to him.

The war traumatized Scarlett and made her feel everything can change, and at any moment you could find yourself without a livelihood or food. She would do things like use convict labor because she was determined never to find herself in a position where she could go hungry, again. It was basically just a different form of slavery. But people always seemt to make a lot of it, here. Not sure why.

We're Rogers and Hammerstein. And we think we know what this movie needed.

R166 What does R & H have to do with that?

[quote] I'm Scarlett's business acumen, only alluded to briefly but I could give Rhett's a run for the money

It was a lot more than "alluded to briefly." It's emphasized that Scarlett had considerable business sense; she's good at math and totally unscrupulous, using her sweet feminine wiles to reeel in customers and denigrating her competitors and selling poor lumber for good, if she can manage it. She rents out convicts for their labor because it's cheap and she puts a nasty, vicious little man named Johnny Gallegher in charge of them. He treats the convicts like shit but Scarlett keeps him on her payroll because his abusive methods seem to work, bringing in lots of money. Her behavior doesn't make her "repulsive" to Rhett; he's used underhanded business methods himself but never inflicted cruelty on others like Scarlett did with the convicts.

The film, though pretty faithful, did have to change some things and eliminate some important characters (Will Benteen), making some of the occurrances (especially in the second half) a bit more melodramatic or soap-operatic than they were in the book. For the sake of time, and condensation of the narrative.

I am the rustling sound made by the red petticoat Mr Rhett bought Mammy as a gift

R169, Selznick told Max Steiner, the composer, to "go mad with schmaltz" in the back half of the picture.

Lesley Ann Warren played the role of Scarlett in the musical version of GWTW

If they had been woke back then it would have been Leslie Uggams.

[Quote]I'm the love for Scarlett which Rhett conceals in the book but flaunts in the movie.

R145, I don't think it's concealed in the book. The fact that the dashing blockade runner Captain Butler makes so many trips inland to Atlanta and always calls on the Hamilton household is often remarked on (obviously he's there for Scarlett).

There are many instances when Scarlett catches Rhett unaware he's looking at her or makes a face she can't understand over something she's said that indicates he's in love with her.

**

I'm the $150 in gold that Rhett Butler uses at the fundraiser that helps "buy" Scarlett out of her widowhood.

Miss Scarlett did you suck my big black pussy yet?

I'm the possibility that George could have ALMOST made Kate passable as Scarlett.

She would have made a different Scarlett but NONE of the others mentioned had sufficient star-power to make four hours of Scarlett bearable.

Katherine Hepburn? My god, talk about travesty. Vivien Leigh is timeless. KH has aged like milk.

Selznick told Katie that no way would audiences ever believe that Clark’s Rhett would pursue her Scarlett for ten years.

[quote] , I don't think it's concealed in the book.

Oh, it was concealed alright. Not until the end of the novel does Scarlett realize he loved her. Rhett tells her that "If you had only let me, I could have loved you as gently and tenderly as ever a man loved a woman. But I couldn't let you know , for I knew you'd think me weak and try to use my love against me." And he was absolutely right. After their wild night of sex Scarlett is convinced he loves her and is elated becasue she believes she now has the upper hand in the relationship and can get him to "jump through any hoops she cared to hold." But when he comes back (he disappears for a few days after their wild night) he behaves airy and nonchalant, like their night meant nothing to him. He had a look of hope and expectation on his face, waiting to see if she would meet him halfway. But he didn't. They were always "at cross purposes", as Rhett said.

These are new thoughts to me. Kind of makes GWTW have a lot of levels. Interesting.

We're the Disney movie executives and we are going to sue somebody over stealing our exclusive rights to any character called Scarlet.

Katharine Hepburn is still a very apprecuiated actress - attend any screening of The Philadelphia Story, the audience is with her all the way, and she's marvellous. She's great in Summertime. So I disagree she hasn't aged well, but Scarlett O'Hara she was not. Neither was Bette Davis, who always talked about it and never seemed to get around to saying Leigh was the perfect choice while she (Davis) wouldn't ever have been.

KH has hardly aged like milk. See above films and Long Day' Journey into Night, Little Women, Adam's Rib, Pat and Mike, Alice Adams... you have been sleeping for years.

R168, Scarlett is more complicated on the page than on the screen, which is true of GWTW in general. Mitchell writes with admiration of her business acumen (tip of the hat to R163) and her willingness to flout the gender conventions of her time to make her way in the world. But Scarlett is also willing to look the other way at Gallagher’s treatment of the convicts, even though she’s uneasy with it and knows it’s wrong, as one scene makes clear.

Speaking of business acumen, I am Caveat Emptorium, which Rhett suggested would be a good name for Scarlett's store. I would have my name up in lights, figuratively speaking, if that spoilsport Ashley hadn't told her what I meant.

R168 I know the books goes more into Scarlett's business talents but it kinda gets glanced over in the movie due to time constraints. The Scarlett of the novel has more opportunity to show she's actually just as clever and practical as any successful businessman, plus she couldn't give two hoots what people think

I think Hepburn aged more like Jiffypop.

Was Kate a serious competitor?

The line I remember - probably Selznick - was "with a cast of Howards and Hepburns we can have a lovely picture for release eight years ago."

Leslie Howard is a terrible casting decision when you read the novel or re-evaluate the movie as an adult. Who should have played Ashley?

Katherine Hepburn.

Kat Hepburn is Ashley Wilkes. Perfect role for that butch dyke.

Good question, R189. No ideas leap to mind, but it should be someone young-looking, fair-haired--or believably bleached--and serious (i.e., not a Van Johnson blond second-lead type, though VJ himself was the wrong era). Robert Taylor, maybe?

Robert Taylor in Camille, 1936.

Was Ashley described as attractive by anyone but Scarlett in the book?

A big fart in the wind

R195 thanks

If they ever had to do a sequel after Leslie Howard died, I think Joseph Cotten probably would have been a good Ashley. He was a Southerner, and (usually) blond. He wasn't any spring chicken, either, though - but around 10 years younger than Howard. Ray Milland (though dark-haired) somehow seems like he'd have the right personality, too, somehow.

I happen to find Leslie Howard very good looking, though. Somebody like Robert Taylor or Tyrone Power...how often in real life is a guy that good looking? I don't thinbk Ashley would have been Hollywood movie star handsome.

[quote]Simply reading datalounge for a year or two would be sufficient study for this

And yet, you still got it wrong. Pity.

Similarly, R197, "Scarlett O'Hara was not beautiful, but men seldom realized it when caught by her charm as the Tarleton twins were." In other words, when casting a movie, it's not mandatory for the actor to be exactly as attractive as the character would be.

Incidentally, in the movie, they weren't able to make the two unrelated actors look like twins (despite dressing them the same, and giving them the same hair color), so I think they became the "Tarleton Boys". I think Scarlett says, when she learns they're dead, "The Tarleton boys -- both of them."

Today there are a lot more twins in the business - and a lot more twins, in general. I doubt they have any trouble finding a pair to play the Tarletons.

Taylor was a terrible actor in the 30s. Cukor complained about it to Thalberg when he was making Camille. At least he got better as he aged. Still never very interesting and his pretty looks when young never did it for me. Leigh said her favorite movie of hers was Waterloo Bridge but the Whale is so much better.

[quote] Taylor was a terrible actor in the 30s.

Totally. He ruined every film in his pretty boy days. As he aged the best you can say is he was tolerable.

Robert Taylor was a horrible actor. Older, younger, it made no difference.

[quote] Was Ashley described as attractive by anyone but Scarlett in the book?

Yes. Mrs. Tarleton calls him "a good looking devil" and his good looks are noted thourghout the novel. He's tall, blonde, slim with thick gold eyelashes. He's hot.

Leslie Howard wasn't very tall, but this article describes him as "slim, blonde and handsome". I mean he was cast as Romeo, after all.

Robert Taylor was very good in Three Comrades (1938). Bataan (1943), Undercurrent (1946), The High Wall (1947), Above And Beyond (1950), The Last Hunt (1955), D-Day, The 6th Of June (1956), Party Girl (1958), and Saddle The Wind (1958). I liked him a lot in Waterloo Bridge, too .He was one of the few leading men who could play a hero or a villain effectively.

I didn't mind Leslie Howard, but Gary Cooper would've fit the bill.

Ashley was YOUNG. Some people think he was old as 25 but I think he was probably 21 or so. The Tarleton twins were 19; he was around that age. Anyway, he was young and Leslie Howard definitely was not. I think he was in his early forties when he made GWTW. Way woo old for the role.

I liked "Gomer the Wind" where Jim Nabors sings "Old Man River" with that whacky baritone of his while Aunt Bea runs around pulling mixed babies out of the fancy women and Sergeant Carter signs on with the "Southern Gentlemen Protecting Our Women" hooded group.

Why do you think Howard was cast if he was too old for the role? Everybody in Hollywood knew this. But I can't imagine anyone else in the role. Also Howard was always a leading actor so why he took a supporting role I don't know. He had never even read the book.

R207 -- Of all the four main characters, only Ashley's age is never mentioned, if I recall. Scarlett is 16, Melanie 17, and Rhett 35.

I base Ashley's age on the fact that he completed college (assuming that made him 22), and then did the Grand Tour of Europe for a year, I believe, so maybe he was 23. He was definitely older than the twins.

Even Leslie Howard knew he was miscast. Whenever I reread the book, I imagine the actors who played the characters except in Ashley's case. For a long time, I pictured Kellan Lutz, but I think he's a right-wing nutjob now, so I need a new model.

Kellan Lutz never did any nudity!

R206, Gary Cooper had the looks, although he was a little too old (38 in 1939 - Leslie Howard was 46!), but I think Cooper was too strong and virile to play a weakling like Ashley. Even if he, as an actor, could pull it off - which is not a sure thing - audiences wouldn't have bought it. Cooper was a heroic type on screen, which Ashley is not.

Even though Howard was lacking in the looks and age departments, he played Ashley almost exactly as written by Margaret Mitchell. It was a very good performance.

Fifteen or twenty years too early but Montgomery Clift could have played Ashley.

How about David Niven as Ashley? He was 28 years old when the movie was being filmed.

Ashley was a pussey.

I always thought Leslie Howard perfect in that part. Strong, serene, intelligent, competent and manly. Scarlett was 'daddy's girl' and Howard, older, self-assured a good head on his shoulders, able to take care of himself. Mature. It made sense Scarlett became infatuated with him.

Ashley was a father figure for Scarlett. She was still young, coddled, living at home. Her father created a world in which she thrived. She was his pet, cared for, well provided for, adored, nurtured in the Southern way of life. She flourished in that world her father made for her. Her dresses, beautiful and impractical for any woman needing to work for a living. Her place in the world was a decoration on the arm of a Southern gentleman. Bred for elegant living, parties and social events. A compliment to the Southern man she married. Instinctively she was attracted to Ashely. He was not another Southern boy learning the ropes, Ashley was not her peer. He was a man who commanded, respected, knowledgeable, sure of his path. Ashley loved the same world Scarlett did, the world Scarlett fit in to a tee, a Southern belle to be paired with a Southern gentleman.

Rhett was the 'new man'. Rhett broke with the Southern rules of etiquette. He held no romantic idealism, he was not impractical in the face of a civilization's graces falling before the sword. He seized the moment of the new way of thinking and living. He succeeded in that world with his brash strength of will, gripping it firmly and riding it to his advantage. He did not wish to languish in dying romanticism, mourning traditions passed. His hearts desires did not match Scarlett's love and belief of that world.

Scarlett in her youth still loved and clung to the old traditions, steadfastly believing in them. But she also was practical. She shed her traditional self bit by bit when harsh realities of the old Southern lifestyle died on the battlefield, forcing her to change until at last, Melanie, the very picture of Southern ideals passed away. The Southern way of living gone forever. Scarlett, as if reborn when Melanie passed became 'the new woman'. At last Rhett, the 'new man' attracted her. Finally, the perfect fit she could see herself in the role of his wife.

I often wonder if Rhett personally preferred Scarlett as he first saw her, the Southern belle, in spite of his admiration of her strength ('what a woman'). If she had been attracted to him then it would be that his inadequacies of being the true Southern gentleman, his inability to fit into that gracious world he himself was raised in and loved, would be forgiven, because of her admiration of him. Remember he went to war at last to fight for the cause now lost. He wanted to make Bonnie his own little cherished pet, said he liked to think of Bonnie as Scarlett before the war 'did things' to her. Did he feel and regret he failed as a Southern gentleman?

That's my take on it anyway.

Randolph Scott would have been a good Ashley. He was handsome (which would help the viewer understand why Scarlett was infatuated with him so long, which is where Howard bombs out). But Scott had been in "So Red the Rose", a Civil War movie that had bombed. As I understand it, Selznick wanted nothing to do with anyone who had been connected with "So Red the Rose" but I don't know if Scott would have been considered, regardless.

I like Scott but Howard was a far better actor. Scott would have been hopeless against the other 3 powerhouses. You might as well have had Taylor in the role.

I’m convinced what’s written at R216 is the product of ChatGPT.

R219

I wrote that. I never even heard of ChatGPT. I looked it up, I'm not even sure completely what that means. Why do you think that anyway? I don't know if I should be flattered or what. How can I prove I am not ChatGPT?

[quote] I base Ashley's age on the fact that he completed college

Where in GWTW does it ever state Ashely graduated from college? Sure, he went on a "Grand Tour" of Europe, but I don't see how that means he graduated from college. It DID make it clear that the Tarleton twins and their two brothers had not graduated from college. The twins had been expelled from the University of Georgia, the FORTH university they'd been booted out of in two years. Their brothers Tom and Boyd leave the University too, because they didn't want to stay at any institution where the twins were not welcome. The Tarleton twins were obviously not college material. Ashley is, but nowhere in GWTW does it state he graduated from college. My guess is that he went into the army before completeing any kind of degree.

I thought Ashley had gone to the University of Virginia. That would certainly be fittin'.

Patric Knowles would have been a good Ashley.

I’m a cat. I’m a better mother than Scarlett.

I always thought that the reason Scarlett remained so infatuated with Ashley was less to do with his - ahem - manly good looks but the obvious fact that he wasn’t particularly interested in her, unlike most of the other boys and men she knew. She wanted to “win” him. If she had she’d have grown bored very quickly, exactly as both Rhett and Ashley predicted.

So, while they couldn’t have cast a hideous lump in the role, it wasn’t necessary for Ashley to be a stunner since looks weren’t the principal source of Scarlett’s attraction to him.

Partly, R225. I think it was less she couldn't get him than she was determined to have him. She believed, despite a couple notable failures (in the library and at the paddock), it was circumstance that was in their way. She was sure he wanted her too... it was his honor under those circumstances that got even more in the way.

1) "He never really existed at all, except in my imagination," she thought wearily. "I loved something I made up, something that's just as dead as Melly is. I made a pretty suit of clothes and fell in love with it. And when Ashley came riding along, so handsome, so different, I put that suit on him and made him wear it whether it fitted him or not. And I wouldn't see what he really was. I kept on loving the pretty clothes—and not him at all."

Now she could look back down the long years and see herself in green flowered dimity, standing in the sunshine at Tara, thrilled by the young horseman with his blond hair shining like a silver helmet. She could see so clearly now that he was only a childish fancy, no more important really than her spoiled desire for the aquamarine earbobs she had coaxed out of Gerald. For, once she owned the earbobs, they had lost their value, as everything except money lost its value once it was hers. And so he, too, would have become cheap if, in those first far-away days, she had ever had the satisfaction of refusing to marry him. If she had ever had him at her mercy, seen him grown passionate, importunate, jealous, sulky, pleading, like the other boys, the wild infatuation which had possessed her would have passed, blowing away as lightly as mist before sunshine and light wind when she met a new man."

2) She loved him, scamp, blackguard, without scruple or honor—at least, honor as Ashley saw it. "Damn Ashley's honor!" she thought. "Ashley's honor has always let me down. Yes, from the very beginning when he kept on coming to see me, even though he knew his family expected him to marry Melanie. Rhett has never let me down, even that dreadful night of Melly's reception when he ought to have wrung my neck. Even when he left me on the road the night Atlanta fell, he knew I'd be safe. He knew I'd get through somehow. Even when he acted like he was going to make me pay to get that money from him at the Yankee camp. He wouldn't have taken me. He was just testing me. He's loved me all along and I've been so mean to him. Time and again, I've hurt him and he was too proud to show it. And when Bonnie died— Oh, how could I?"

To all DL's You know we always pursue the man who doesn't want you!

How many times have we all done this, Confess people of DL

I'm Belle Watling's cavernous cunt.

I loved having those strapping Tarleton twins double team me!

Never read the book but it's also possible Ashley had been a West Pointer or a VMI man. He was after all commander of the local militia and is later proven to be a fine soldier.

So I checked an online version of the book and it references the University of Virginia (in relation to the Tarletons), Harvard (in relation to Charles) and many more times "the university." The last reference is Scarlett telling Wade he's going to the University of Georgia, not a Yankee school and Harvard is a Yankee school. Charles went to U of G but Harvard for his last year. The only reference to Ashley and university is "The few who came to them talked about how they went to the university with Ashley and what a fine soldier he was or spoke in respectful tones of Charles and how great a loss to Atlanta his death had been." I'm guessing it means the University of Georgia, since that's where the story is set and she's writing it in a local context.

Yes, I am doing anything to avoid working.

R230 thanks for your literary detection!

R231, anything to avoid work.

Nice choice of passages, R226. And let's not forget Scarlett's realization that Ashley only wanted her the way Rhett wanted "that Watling woman."

R233

Men are beasts.

I remember seeing GWTW for the 1st time in 7th grade and sitting with my guy friends a few seats back from this group of girls who wer were good friends with (still are). This was the early 70s.

I clearly remember two or three of the girls swooning for Leslie Howard. So maybe times change. I think maybe LH was closer to early-70s tastes than CG. Thin, blond, poetic, romantic.

One of the reasons LH was cast as Ashley and was such an obvious choice - I haven't seen it mentioned here - was his whole image as a movie star. He had been playing various romantic dreamers or idealists (though not exclusively) for almost a decade. The Petrified Forest, for example. He was getting older. But he was right for the part. Today a lot of people would not object if a 45 or 46 year old male star played a younger guy.

New York Times review by Frank Nugent:

R235 nice to hear you're all still friends!

I'm Scarlett. Girls just want to have fun. "War, war, war. This war talk's spoiling all the fun at every party this spring. I get so bored I could scream. Besides, there isn't going to be any war".

'Anyway, "it" has arrived at last, and we cannot get over the shock of not being disappointed; we had almost been looking forward to that.'

A DLer!

I'm Thomas Mitchell as Gerald O'Hara. In 1939 I was also in Mr. Smith Goes To Washington, The Hunchback Of Notre Dame, Only Angels Have Wings, and Stagecoach (for which I won an Oscar).

Such ingenuity in that little pony!

I am Pork's grizzled hairs on the day of Gerald's funeral

I'm Rhett's stinking denture breath and the early signs of Scarlet's schizophrenia in those flashing, dashing, dancing eyes!

To R238- Thomas Mitchell was wonderful in GWTW, but was even better in Stagecoach. What a performance, Thomas Mitchell was GREAT. He deserved that Oscar!!

I’m “Land, Katy Scarlett, land! Land is the only thing worth living for, worth fighting for, worth dying for!”

Then I'm "Oh, Pa, you talk like an Irishman."

I'm the silly step down inside the front door of Miss Wilkes' house.

There's no reason a house in the swampy states would have a step down inside the front door.

Jordan is the only man with the swagger to play Rhett in a remake.

R246 Who's Miss Wilkes? India?

I'm the side saddle.

R248 I'm talking about this scene.

There's step INSIDE the front door.

I'm confused, R73. Are you saying Rhett is twice as old as Scarlett?

R251, at the end of the novel he says he's 45 and she admits to being 28, so the age difference is 17 years.

[quote] Are you saying Rhett is twice as old as Scarlett?

At the end of the novel Scarlett is 28 and Rhett is 45. So he's 17 years older than she. I don't think Ashley was as old as 24 or 25. I think he's more like 21. Some say he must be older because he's graduated from college; he went on a "Grand Tour" of Europe so that supposedly means he's a college graduate. But nowhere in the novel does it say Ashley graduated from college.

I'm Aunt Pitty Pat and I think that age difference is UNACCEPTABLE.

I'm 1873, the year in which the story ends.

I'm also the bustles all the women now wear instead of crinolines.

I'm the hunger Scarlett never experiences again

I'm the appalling fake sunsets and unacceptable back-projection.

I'm the mystery illness that kills Melanie: a miscarriage. Seems that word cannot be uttered in a film made in the 1930s.

Why did it take years for Rhett to finally make Scarlett experience the delight of an orgasm? Was he being too gentle?

Not sure that's her first time. I think when they first got married he was satisfying her then she wasn't sleeping with him for a while and he carries her up the stairs and shows her what she's been missing.

I'm the frustrating cross-purposes Rhett & Scarlett are working at

Anybody venture an explanation why the women don't ever tell Rhett that Scarlett was calling for him during her miscarriage? Fair enough it wouldn't be 'proper' for him to see her like that, but knowing it was him she wanted when she was at death's door might have given him an inkling of her true feelings.

I'm Miss Scarlett, a heartless, selfish, greedy bitch who will exploit anything and anyone in order to lead a life of luxury and be happy. I'm in love with a dull, pusillanimous but kindhearted man whose lack of character and occasional need of my support for his family, makes me believe that he didn't friend-zone me from the moment he met me. Loving him is my one and only redeeming quality, because I'm a total cunt.

I'm the wet rooster that'll be Christmas dinner for the white folks.

I'm unflattering ringlets.

It jus ain fittin

I´m Olivias oh so sympathetic line reading of "Oh Scarlett", coming from beneath a terrible hairdo.