White Lotus season 2 (thread 7)

Link to previous thread

I am pretty sure Meghann Fahey and Aubrey Plaza will get genuine career lifts from this season (since everyone I knew saw it and liked it), and I would not be surprised to see Sabrina Impacciatore and Ethan Sharpe get them too.

Theo James was quite good, but so far his resume has been pretty limited to playing extremely handsome cads, and this didn't show him doing much new.

The NY Times hated the ending and so did many others.

Next season is in Latin America. I think Mike White is trying to throw everyone off.

Another great line from Valentina....

Salvatore - Last week I was at the beach club, now I am at the Reception, where will I be next?

Valentina - In the kitchen, washing dishes!

For the drunk old crazy ladies of your life.

While waking up for work a little earlier, my thoughts drifted to "Picture it: a cross-season orgy." The pairings:

Shane and Cameron

Greg and Albie

Mark and Dom

Armond and Jack

Dillon and Ethan

Quinn and Rocco

Kai and Niccolò

What is it with these old American tourists, Tanya and Bert, talking at length in English to working class Sicilians who understand only Italian?

It's the 'Ugly American' trope.

I noticed that none of the Italian women speaks with-ah the stereotypicalle Italian-ah accent-ah. Is that because of their Sicilian dialect or is it because they are better English speakers?

I find it especially interesting that Sabrina Tabasco speaks English so well on the show because she does all her interviews in Italian, which makes me assume she's not actually a fluent English speaker.

I liked how Salvatore pretended he didn't hear Valentina when she was calling him.

So was Albie boning the actress that plays Lucia or Portia, on the set?

I read Aubrey Plaza was freaking out the Albie actor, also read she did that to Robert DeNiro when they were in a movie together. She sounds like a bit much.

[quote] The NY Times hated the ending and so did many others.

One of their regular op-ed columnists, Michelle Goldberg, hated the ending. She did not speak for the whole paper.

The ending was fine. Michelle Goldberg, not so much.

A friend just got back from Sicily, where's he's opening a bed and breakfast. He says season 2 has created a mass stampede of tourist reservations all over Sicily. That, and Taormina is a tourist trap, similar to Capri and Positano.

My guess is that Sicily may be overcrowded by tourists for decades because of this show. It really made it look glamorous and spectacular.

[quote] So was Albie boning the actress that plays Lucia or Portia, on the set?

Neither. The actor playing Albie was boning the actress who plays Daphne during filming.

I thought the actress playing Daphne was boning the actor playing Jack.

Oh, you're right and I was wrong, r19. Apologies.

iirc the rumor from Deux Moi said that Simona (Lucia) and Adam Di Grasso (Albie) were fucking but in every pic and video Haley Lu seems to be all over Adam so I wouldn't be surprised if he fucked her too.

oops, it's DiMarco.

I suspect the whores are doing well. They're part of that White Lotus experience too.

DiMarco is gay

The actual hotel in the White Lotus is the Four Seasons San Domenico Palace. I was there this summer in Taormina for a day after spending four nights in Siracusa. Taormina is a bit of a tourist trap like what someone said above about Positano. I wouldn't include Capri in that because the natural beauty you can escape to in Capri is some of the most beautiful in the world to behold. It is like a paradise. BUT the views from Taormina area stunning as well. Below is from the Taormina amphitheatre that was seen in the show when Albie and family took a day trip. The San Domenico is crazy expensive but I stayed at a really cute hotel that was 220 euros a night which included breakfast with the same amazing views. I would probably only go back to Taormina to see a concert in that amazing amphitheatre. I was bummed to learn I had just missed Radiohead playing there. I am sure that must have been other-wordly with that view going in to the night under the stars.

[quote] Next season is in Latin America

nope, Asia

Capri is not a tourist trap (in that there are things there absolutely worth seeing), but it is absolutely mobbed with tourists all the time. Same with Positano. I stayed in Amalfi instead and had a wonderful time--it was far less mobbed, and had gorgeous hotels.

[QUOTE] The NY Times hated the ending and so did many others.

No, a woman named Michelle Goldberg hated it.

So we've heard

R24 Do you have knowledge of that or is that your personal opinion? It's just that DL seems to think every man is gay lol.

Here is a photostream to our vacation in Ortigia, Siracusa where we would definitely go back to. The food was good, the people, the setting. We are not beach people, so that we weren't missing there. There was an international music festival at the same time - Ortigia Sound System. We had no idea when we planned it that that would be going on. But it was a very interesting, fun mix of locals and music fest people and regular tourists. Tangerine Dream was playing a night, so we got tickets to see them. We took the train across the Strait of Messina. The entire train actually goes onto a Ferry and travels across from Sicily to Italy.

Anyway it was cool to see this season of White Lotus set in Sicily. There is a lot to explore there, a lot of beautiful things to see and amazing food to eat. If you have the chance and haven't been, you really should see it.

[R30] he gave a red carpet interview and said he wanted Henry Cavill to punch him in the face and stomp him. Let me see if I can find the clip

R30 (I'm not R24) I thought DiMarco was gay from the way he breathlessly explains how Theo James could step on him and punch him in the face, do whatever he wants to do to him in this clip. But I guess supposedly he is straight.

found it R32 and it's Theo James his costar, not Herny Cavill

I wouldn't be surprised - a lot of actors are and the Deux Moi stuff was anon-posted so could be someone making it up.

I thought Meghan Fahey’s last scene with Ethan were sensational. She was really great. I hope to see her in other things, she is really appealing.

I really liked Meghan too but was shocked to learn she's only 32! I figured she and Theo (36) were early 40s.

R36 I though Plaza (whom I've loved in other things) was the best actress in the series until that scene. She was mysterious all the way through the series, and in that scene continued to subtlety show still unknown depths of the character. I'd be happy is she shows up in season 3... I am curious to know more about her, her choices, her quirks, her mistakes (seems like she has it all latched down, no mistakes allowed).

R38, the comment you cited was about Fahy but your own comment was about Plaza.

I'm just glad none of the crazier theories posted here came true, like "Cameron and Ethan are totally going to fuck!"

If you want to write fan fiction, go to AO3.

R39, R38's comment WAS about Fahy. He said he thought Plaza was the best actress UNTIL he saw Fahy in that scene.

Ohhhh. Gotcha, R41. Sorry, I misinterpreted that.

(And I agree.)

But R38, you are exactly correct. The way the information that Ethan lays on her lands on her face is perfect. She looks away for a second, you can see the pain and how she slightly swallows it down and gets back to her upbeat take on how to deal with life. It was like that information was almost JUST a bit too much, but she is able to bury it in that split second. It was beautifully done.

R24 He sure fucks a lot of chicks for a gay dude.

Or, you know, bisexual

R24, R44, DiMarco only goes for pretty wounded bird power-bottoms, so unless you fit the bill, you're both shit outta luck!

R46 Actresses that play Lucia and Portia are wounded bird power-bottoms?

R31, those pictures make me want to start planning a trip!

I no-a do-a the butt-a sex, R47!

Daphne may be dating Jack

I honestly get annoyed with DLers' (and other gay men's) obsessive 'accusations' of any and every good-looking actor being gay.

Adam DiMarco may not be gay, but he sure as hell seems gay to me. I tend toward assuming people are not gay more than assuming they are, but his voice and face and body movements all ring loud-and-clear gay to me. If I met him in real life, I would just assume he is gay.

Sicily is gorgeous. Had a wonderful time there a couple of years ago. Go if you can!

How do you make a Tanya McQuoid Cocktail?

3 shots and a splash of water.

Weak sauce R53. 🤓

R44 I’m with R51 on this one. I trust my own eyes over a blind item from Deux Moi. The man in R33 ‘s video is clearly a gay man.

Can one of you smarties give me your take on what it meant when Daphne showed Harper a photo of her kids when she said she would show a pic of the trainer?

R56 The suggestion was that the kids weren't Cameron's.

r56, she said the trainer was blond with blue eyes, and both her children are blond with blue eyes. Neither Daphne nor Cameron are blond with blue eyes.

She was making clear to Harper that her trainer is the actual biological father of her children, and that's been part of the way she's punished Cameron for his indiscretions and his humiliations of her.

And there was a scene when Daphne was talking to her blond sons on the phone and she called Cameron to come out of the bathroom to talk to them. While out of her sight, he grimaces but then quickly puts on a fake enthusiasm face as he emerges from the bathroom. It's clear he dislikes those kids.

Daphne does have blue eyes but regardless, two parents with brown eyes can have a blue eyed child.

Why does everyone say that Greg will now inherit Tanya's billions? I mean, how long will it take for the police to search Quentin's house and find the picture of him with Greg? Eventually someone ( though probably not the Italian police) will put 2 and 2 together.

R61 It's my theory but I personally think that the rope, duct tape, the red light indicating that sex with Niccolo was videotaped plus how they made sure that Tanya saw Niccolo's gun and would think that he was in the mafia indicates that the plan was to extort Tanya for money, not kill her. Tanya had a tragic misunderstanding (which they did intend but they didn't think she would get hold of the gun and kill them...)

[quote] Why does everyone say that Greg will now inherit Tanya's billions?

I don't know, because Portia said in episode 2 this season that Tanya is worth no more than half a billion.

I expect that the drug use was videotaped as well.

[quote] Daphne does have blue eyes but regardless, two parents with brown eyes can have a blue eyed child.

Daphne was trying to impart confidential information to Harper while still maintaining plausible deniability; she was not trying to provide a foolproof genetic claim to a court of law.

R65 I was responding to R58 above who said that neither Cameron nor Daphne had blue eyes (when actually Daphne has blue eyes, Cameron brown) and then that would mean that their kids couldn't have blue eyes. I think they got mixed up - it's actually two parents with blue eyes who have 0 chance of having a brown-eyed child. Two parents with brown eyes can still have a blue eyed child.

[quote][R65] I was responding to [R58] above who said that neither Cameron nor Daphne had blue eyes (when actually Daphne has blue eyes, Cameron brown) and then that would mean that their kids couldn't have blue eyes.

I said no such thing. You misread my post.

R67 Wow, this is what you said word for word:

"she said the trainer was blond with blue eyes, and both her children are blond with blue eyes. Neither Daphne nor Cameron are blond with blue eyes.

She was making clear to Harper that her trainer is the actual biological father of her children, and that's been part of the way she's punished Cameron for his indiscretions and his humiliations of her."

[quote] R67 Wow, this is what you said word for word:

[quote]"she said the trainer was blond with blue eyes, and both her children are blond with blue eyes. Neither Daphne nor Cameron are blond with blue eyes.

[quote]She was making clear to Harper that her trainer is the actual biological father of her children, and that's been part of the way she's punished Cameron for his indiscretions and his humiliations of her."

Yes, I did. But that is not the same thing as saying "then that would mean that their kids couldn't have blue eyes."

Of course there is a possibility they could have blue eyes with brown-eyed parents. But because she stressed the blond hair and blue eyes, she knew by showing the photo of the children to Harper thereafter would make it likely Harper would think she was suggesting her children have the trainer as a parent.

I chose my words carefully. We don't even know if Daphne herself is 100% certain the children are not Cameron's. But it's likely they are not if she's slept with the trainer repeatedly, which is what she wanted to convey to Harper.

R69 But you acknowledge that Meghann Fahy has these incredibly light blue eyes at least? Or is it really, really hard for you to acknowledge a correction? Also eye color genetics are kind of widely known. Maybe Daphne and Harper wouldn't be the kind of educated people would know that but.. Your weakness is that you can't even accept a minor correction.

Sorry, I thought you were just dumb, r70, but now I know you're both dumb and psycho.

So now you're the grand trifecta: dumb, psycho, and also blocked.

R71 says it all that you think that makes me a troll? Simply saying (accurately) that Fahy has blue eyes, not brown. And saying (accurately) that two brown-eyed parents can have a blue-eyed child.

Emotionally incontinent much?

The interesting thing about Harper and Daphne's relationship is that as much as Harper looked down on Daphne and her decisions, Harper is the one who ends up being "The Kind of Girl," Daphne back in Noto hoped that she was not - a mean girl she could not trust.

Should Harper have been a girl she should have trusted? if so, why? Why does Daphne deserve trust when she implies she cheats on her husband and has lied to the world about her children?

Why is that interesting, R73? It was clear to the audience from the start that Harper was the mean girl that Daphne couldn’t trust. The twist is that the story was told from Harper’s point of view, so Harper was never presented as a villain.

Daphne ended up being my favorite character this season. She was a secondary character but her portrayal was so layered and complex. This is a woman who is going to follow through on her commitment, even if she needs to take liberties along the way. She has three kids with her trainer and her husband probably has no idea the kids aren’t his. And yet, you come away from it all thinking that is the correct and just state of affairs. I loved, loved, loved this actress.

[quote] And yet, you come away from it all thinking that is the correct and just state of affairs.

I came away from it thinking Daphne sounded just as fucked up as Cameron, that their marriage is doomed, and that the children will inevitably discover to their misery one day they are not the biological children of their supposed father.

I don’t think Daphne was fucked or evil or any of those things. She is manipulative, yes. But still fundamentally a good person.

And if I had to predict an outcome, I would put money on Daphne and Cameron staying married to one another until one of them dies.

No one said Daphne was evil. Fucked up is not the same thing as evil.

[quote] No one said Daphne was evil.

No one said anyone said Daphne was evil either.

[quote] She has three kids with her trainer

Where is this established? The younger infant-aged child in the photo had his eyes closed, and did look to be slightly darker complected. Maybe Cameron's actual progeny.

Daphne might have been careless once, but would have been really reckless to have cuckolded Cameron with additional bastard children. Especially with him genuinely seeming to care for her and the child, during the complicated birth.

Got the impression that Cameron was not clueless about the kids he's raising.

Regarding the piano singers. I believe the point was that neither (Mia or Giuseppe) were excellent, but Mia got praise for being young and pretty, while Bert hated Guiseppe because he hated something about him that he hated about himself: Old age.

Matteo, who stayed behind, did not seem on board with whatever the plan was. He looked very concerned at breakfast, not his normal smiling self. And he teared up when saying goodbye to Tanya. Maybe he will be the one to share details of the nefarious plot with authorities.

Less hopeful for he who Tanya called "what's his face", if in fact he made it to shore.

If viewers enjoy Meghann Fahy in this, you might have enjoyed her as the crazed sociopath stalker when she appeared in One Life To Live.

R77, how is someone who cheats on their partner to the point of passing off illegitimate children as their partner's a fundamentally good person? Daphne even teaches Ethan to deal with his jealousy issues by cheating himself. Cameron is no peach, but Daphne is no prize either. It's things like this this that make me wonder how fucked up DLers relationships must be IRL.

Daphne and Cameron keep their relationship "alive" by playing games with each other. Daphne refuses to see herself as a victim getting humiliated by Cameron, instead she pays him back by fucking with him, his money and his alpha male insecurities.

In the end, Cameron is more of a beta by letting Ethan punch him without causing a scene and what we figure out about his dynamic with Daphne.

There's no definite proof that Daphne's two children are not Cameron's. Daphne lightens her hair but her colouring clearly suggests she was a very blonde child.

I think Harper's contempt for Daphne's sahm status and oblivion to world crises was a defence. Harper's husband had just come in to a vast amount of money, he had lost all sexual interest in her and on a scale of one to ten, she is a five; if it weren't for her nice body, she'd be even lower. Her marriage is on shaky ground and she knows it, and she could easily end up alone. Daphne is a nine by any standard, and she and her husband clearly have an active sex life. Simple female insecurity and competitiveness on Harper's part, but not on Daphne's.

[quote]One of their regular op-ed columnists, Michelle Goldberg, hated the ending. She did not speak for the whole paper.

Does it matter, ‘who’ wrote the Op- Ed piece? Why be so anal? Goldberg’s opinion piece was in the OP Ed Section. Usually the Op-Ed columns do reflect the whole paper's opinion, the NYT has both Liberal and Repub op ed columns. Are you even a regular NYT reader?

There was also a review in the Arts section, whoever wrote that didn’t like the ending either.

Then, there was an article where MW and J Coolidge were interviewed. IIRC, he said something about perhaps bringing Tanya back. MW and Coolidge did a joint interview, JC joked she wasn’t upset about her character’s death, then admitted she was.

Jeez, why are people in these WL 2 threads such obsessed fangirls about this cheesy series? Face facts, WL Season 2 wasn’t very good.

Also, it seems so many here are obsessing over certain actors cocks and asses. That seemed to be one of the main reasons so many watched this series, expected to see cocks and ass. Watch porn for that.

After the almost endless speculation about Cameron and Ethan's alma mater - we finally find out it was Yale. Practically every other candidate was mentioned, I don't recall seeing Yale once.

[quote]No one said anyone said Daphne was evil either.

No one said anyone said anyone said Daphne was evil either, for that matter.

Ethan's and Harper's relationship had problems because they were unsatisfied with the roles they established in the relationship. Harper had to be the "tough" one, to be in charage, so Ethan could retreat in his shell (and do computer nerd stuff) when there was a conflict. I bet at home, Harper was the one who had to deal with spiders in their home.

They believed everything is fine since they can trust to be always honest to each other. But once that ship had sailed, the whole relationship was in danger to fall like a house of cards. Daphne saved them by helping Ethan.

Part of the joint NYT interview:

Jennifer, did you ever try to talk Mike out of this ending?

COOLIDGE You can’t talk Mike White out of anything, really. But whenever Mike was in a really good mood, and laughing about something, I’d go, like, “I don’t have to die, right?”

WHITE Even when we were shooting the scene in the ocean where Daphne finds her body. She was like, “Should we just do one take where I pull myself up on the shore? Just one?”

COOLIDGE That’s an actress fighting for another season! I wanted to be practical in case Mike had a change of heart. I just wanted to leave the possibilities open.

Why did you want a “derpy” death for Tanya?

WHITE It reminds me a little of Jennifer, because Jennifer, like, she’ll come and do this incredible performance and then lock herself in a bathroom. I can see Jennifer in this situation actually killing all the bad guys, surviving this assassination attempt, and then tripping on her way out the door. Part of Jennifer is: She’s not going to go down without a fight. She wants to live. But at the same time, she’s maybe a little klutzy.

Did you do any of the final stunt, Jennifer?

COOLIDGE I begged to do it! But Mike already had the stunt double there at the shoot. And she had been waiting for hours. There was just no way Mike was going to tell her, waiting out on the cold boat, that she wasn’t going to have her moment. So Mike wouldn’t let me do it.

WHITE She really did want to jump off the boat. Into freezing water. There was no way.

So will any of the Season 2 characters make their way to Season 3?

WHITE The truth is, I don’t really know. I just don’t know.

Well, you’ve teased a season about Eastern spirituality and death, so allow me to suggest Ghost Tanya.

COOLIDGE Thank you for trying to get me in there.

WHITE I mean, especially if we’re doing something about the spiritual realm.

Do you have any regrets about the season? Are you sorry you killed off Tanya?

WHITE I really love this story. I really thought it was a funny way to go. And right. I don’t have regrets about that.

But yesterday, I went over and watched the show alone with Jennifer. At one point, I was kind of laughing and I looked over at her, and she was so sad for Tanya. In that moment, I was like, Oh, this is the end for me and Jennifer. And Jennifer’s the reason I did “White Lotus” in the first place. Because I just wanted to write something for her and I just adore her. So it’s sad. I didn’t realize it until yesterday, but now I am sad. It’s going to be hard to do it without her. There’s definitely going to be something missing.

COOLIDGE I didn’t expect, last night, to be as moved as I was.

Have you forgiven him for killing you off?

COOLIDGE No, not at all. I’ll forever be sad about this.

The show has already been renewed for Season 3. So let’s just get this out of the way: Who dies next time?

WHITE Maybe it’s like Kenny on “South Park”: Every season Tanya has to come in and just die all over again.

Basically Daphne is a living saint, teaching people to cheat on their spouses for the good of their marriage.

She is not a saint, but she doesn't allow herself to be a victim either. I think what the show highlights is that women, who are at a disadvantage in a male dominated society, use whatever they can to "survive", just like the prostitutes in the show. Men screw women over, and women screw them right back in their own ways.

I was curious so I did google translate on what Niccollo speaks in Italian at the table on the boat - it's nothing too revealing.

From "Credo che sia giunto il momento di andare a sistemare le mie cose."

To "I think it's time to go sort out my things."

Italian seems a bit more verbose.

Cam and Daphne have one fucked up relationship.

Daphne is very much a victim despite her protestations to the contrary. Unless she was always deceitful and manipulative then Cameron has turned her into a mirror image of his deceit and manipulation. She'll stop being his victim when she leaves him.

And, no, Cameron does not care about her or the kids. He puts on a performance because he's an emotional conman. He's out for himself and if appearing to be a loving husband or father gets him what he wants then he can perform for an audience. Did you see him in that bathroom when his wife was talking to the kids? That was a face of hate and utter disdain for both her and the kids. Or maybe he was just overacting. But just based on Cameron's behavior he doesn't care about them.

Daphne and her Irish American family must be so thrilled she's fucking the British chav on the show. She could do much better. He looks like a mix of Robbie Williams and one of Ozzy Osbourne's kids! He must be an animal in the sack,so I'm not surprised.

Adam and sex rumors with Lucia and the Crazy Cat Lady? Good for him. If he's bi ,then he did well. Haley is so unattractive on the show but is better looking in real life. Lucia doesn't speak much English but she seems to know her way around a hole and a pole.

Meghann is very common looking. Cute but common. It's a failing of Celtic looks.

I agree with actress’ interpretation of her own character.

[quote] Does it matter, ‘who’ wrote the Op- Ed piece? Why be so anal?

Most of this discussion is 'so anal.' Everyone is bickering mainly about plot points that are not in the script at all.

Who is the father of Daphne's kids? Not in the script.

Was the Italian gigolo really mafia? Not in the script.

Did Harper and Cameron really have sex? Not in the script.

And on and on and on.

If it's not in the script, then there is no true answer. I don't understand how people don't realize that Mike White's writing strength in part is to set up so many openings for different interpretations and that a huge part of the point of all of his writing is that "reality" changes depending whose point of view it's being seen from. That's *the point* of his storytelling.

People are arguing so adamantly about "realities" that they imagine having taken place offscreen and off the page, and they're trying to prove that they are right while ALL are wrong because these points are not written into the story; they are suggested as possibilities in a world outside of the story that 1) we will never know and 2) change depending whose perspective is involved.

I'd ask people to consider this before calling one another names and derailing these threads, but it seems like the angry, obsessive people who are bickering about stuff that is not actually part of the story seem to be on the autism spectrum or something and just can't help themselves. But God, is it tiring. It makes trying to engage with these discussions so tedious when 10 of every 20 posts are people calling one another childish names. I feel stranded on an elementary school playground with gay men of advanced ages calling one another poopyface because they can't agree on "facts" that are not facts anywhere except in their own imaginations.

When it comes right down to it, this entire season was an indictment against Italian-American men.

As it was written, Daphne loves her husband and is hurt by his infidelities. Possibly their marriage will end up like Dom and Abby's and she will grow to hate Cameron. In the meantime, she is consoling herself with attention from another man or men.

Except for Albie and Rocco, all the men in this series are villains who either exploit, betray or want to harm women because of their greed or lust. But it doesn't always work out for them.

R102 That's...something. I did not come away with that impression at all.

Most of the characters are American and all of them except Albie and maybe his grandfather are assholes.

Leo and his "uncle" are Brits and they are among the worst of all the characters, complicit in a murder plot or at least a plot that looked like murder.

And if you want to go meta, not only are Leo and his uncle Brits, but so are Ethan and Cameron via the actors who play them, and F. Murray Abraham describes himself as Syrian-American.

R89 - Hello if you scrub the threads (I think it was Thread 4/5?), you'd find that I did mention Yale. What I did say was Yale wasn't plausible because computer science - which Ethan majored in - isn't really its strong suit. My bestfriend in Yale majored in CS and had to catch up hard when he was interning at a startup.

Another thing, Cameron mentioned that the housing office messed up when they paired Ethan and him to live together. I'd have pegged someone like Cameron would be living off-campus, even in freshman year. The school REQUIRES freshmen and sophomores to live on campus, BUT I know a lot of these super wealthy kids who would use their connections to twist the arms of Student Affairs to allow them to live off-campus. These kids literally have household staff and a driver that brings them to and from campus. I figured Cameron would have been one of these types.

R89 - I'll try to find the exact Thread and Reply number, hold up.

What do you guys think will happen to Jack?

Jack will get out of Dodge pronto and lay low. Like Portia, he can't go back to get his stuff. But there is the problem of him using Quentin's credit card. Or if he did go back, he could just keep saying that he was Quentin's driver and knew nothing about any conspiracy to murder.

How many of the details did Greg know about? Either Jack gets his payday from Greg, or Jack has to go back find a new sugar daddy that will take care of him.

I imagine Quentin handled all the details. If the whole thing doesn't blow up, Jack would have to shake Greg down for money. I know someone a lot like Jack, a dumb career criminal. No matter how much luck or money comes their way, they inevitably screw it up, end up broke and in trouble.

[quote]Usually the Op-Ed columns do reflect the whole paper's opinion

That isn't how that works at all.

I enjoyed the ride with this season. Glad to have had the time to watch it. I'm serious.

I don't overthink some of it. However, I don't mind if anyone else does.

The one gal obviously has outside children. Gregor Mendel I'm not, but really? Those aren't his kids. He knows it and probably has some out there himself so they have an unspoken agreement and he plays along.

Portia could have given a dayum. She was apathetic. I would safely assume that someone with a demanding employer would have their employers number memorized, though. Remember she plainly and simply works for Tanya and that's it, there's no company or human resources professional she answers to - just Tanya.

I liked what Jennifer Coolidge did last season and this season. Cool that she knew all along that her character was going to die. She went as far as she could and did her Shelley Winters thing. Does she deserve another Emmy? Not really. I still dig her though.

Ah well. I had a ghastly time sleeping last night (can't you tell?) and am to make some more coffee. I liked all these threads about this show and y'all just enjoy the ride, man. Mike White is his own unique dude but it seems like HBO is giving him carte blanche so God only knows what he'll come up with next season.

Thanks for explaining the photo of the kids thing. I’m so dense lol - I didn’t pick up on that at all 😳

[quote]I would safely assume that someone with a demanding employer would have their employers number memorized, though

Why?

[quote] That isn't how that works at all.

That’s exactly how it works. The problem is that this was a review and not an op ed column. So the point is moot.

r114 No, it isn't. The editorial represents the views of the editorial board of the newspaper. Op-eds represent the views of the author alone, and are meant to provide a range of opinions.

[quote]Should Harper have been a girl she should have trusted? if so, why? Why does Daphne deserve trust when she implies she cheats on her husband and has lied to the world about her children?

Well Harper at least could have not made out with her husband on vacation...

Jack drive away from the side street near Catania Airport. Weren’t you paying attention?

Does anyone else think the Spillars' marriage has not been magically fixed? Ethan is an introvert with intimacy issues who prefers to retreat into his work and jerk off to porn. Harper has turned into a mother/boss in their marriage, which is pretty unsexy. Divorce sooner rather than later, unless they have kids..

The Sullivans' marriage could certainly end up like Dom di Grasso's, where Daphne gets so fed up with Cam's chronic infidelity that she hates him, and he realises too late that he has lost her. This will happen if Daphne meets someone who's the whole package.

R115 News organizations *really* need to emphasize this and stop assuming the public knows the difference between the opinion page/op-eds and newspaper editorials.

Op-eds are supposed to serve as a kind of written town hall in which various people express their strongly held views and substantiate those views with evidence. The opinion section is supposed to give readers the opportunity to make their voices heard, but in practice, you'll almost exclusively find op-eds printed that are credited to executives and other high-ranking people. The Washington Post, New York Times et al. welcome op-ed submissions from anyone via general email addresses with the promise that every person's op-ed is considered. In practice, those email addresses are dumping grounds to make readers feel like readers have voices, and nearly all published op-eds come via publicists and are written by paid comms staff on behalf of corporate and nonprofit executives, celebrities, professors from elite universities, et al. And so readers see the opinion pages and assume that op-eds are "official opinions" endorsed by newspapers. They aren't, but the process at large papers is corrupt by and large in the sense that they publish only "noteworthy" names, and the supposed personal opinions they publish almost always are written by paid professional publicity experts. Regional and local newspapers are much more likely to publish an op-ed from an "everyman" reader. The NYT, the Post et al. have reduced "insignificant" readers' voices in practice to the letters-to-the-editor section, which limits comments usually to a short paragraph of crotchety complaint.

Meanwhile, a newspaper editorial IS an official opinion of the newspaper's editorial board that is intended to sway public opinion—for example, when a newspaper endorses a political candidate.

Cameron and Daphne remind me a little bit of Nick and Daisy Buchanan from The Great Gatsby.

[quote]Daphne and her Irish American family must be so thrilled she's fucking the British chav on the show. She could do much better. He looks like a mix of Robbie Williams and one of Ozzy Osbourne's kids! He must be an animal in the sack,so I'm not surprised.

Huh? Are you talking about the character Daphne or the actress Meghann who portrayed her?

The 'chav' on the series was played by English actor Leo Woodall, is he a 'chav' in real life? You do realize he was acting in the series? btw, Will Sharpe is also English, English and Japanese.

"Woodall was born in Hammersmith, West London. He comes from a family of actors, including his father Andrew, stepfather, and grandmother; his parents met at drama school. Woodall is a descendant of American actress and businesswoman, Maxine Elliott.

Woodall initially wanted to go into sports and was nineteen when he decided to pursue acting while watching the series Peaky Blinders. He graduated with a Bachelor of Arts in Acting from Arts Educational School (ArtsEd) in 2019."

"Woodall joined the main cast of the HBO anthology series The White Lotus for its second season in Sicily as Jack, a young tourist from Essex on holiday with his uncle Quentin (Tom Hollander). To prepare for the role and adopt the character's accent, Woodall watched videos of television personality Joey Essex."

R118 The implication is that bored, almost lifeless emotional zombie Ethan was charged up by the thrill of betrayal—his wife's suspected betrayal and then his betrayal of her. He is all about porn fantasy, and it seems he needed some pornesque non-routine excitement to make sex worthwhile for him. He is too repressed. You could compare it to conservatives who end up with freaky fetishes because they can't allow themselves to just enjoy normal sexual contact. Ethan was all work and all routine, always taking his morning run, getting physically horny but dealing with it like a chore and then moving through his to-do list. Being naughty got his juices flowing.

And that is the 'secret' Daphne and Cameron have that they think keeps their passion alive. It works for Ethan. It may work for Harper because Harper needs to feel seen. And she was more concerned with her husband not being attracted to her and with their marriage failing than she was with the idea of him cheating on her. She was bothered by the idea but she didn't go straight to wanting to break up. She just kept telling him to tell her the truth. So Harper's contentment may be more based on just having an honest and emotionally open relationship and knowing her husband has some passion for her. She is probably more available to the idea of occasional dalliances to keep the passion alive, but Ethan is too conservative and full of shame and he will only be able to do it covertly, which creates shame-based anxiety that then comes out as aggressive passion. (I get this. I used to be this way.)

I don't know if anyone can project they will live happily ever after or if that is the point of any of the storyline. The point to me seems to be what happens in the present: an emotional breakthrough reached through Daphne's philosophies.

R121 It is weird that everyone here seems to think actor Leo Woodall is character Jack. People seem to recognize everyone else is an actor playing a character but they're all stuck on Leo being Jack.

[quote]I read Aubrey Plaza was freaking out the Albie actor

I've seen interviews with her on Youtube & she *is* April Ludgate. Very deadpan, droll sense of humor, kind of an oddball - not that's necessarily a bad thing, but I could see where she isn't a conventional "type" on a film set.

[quote]To prepare for the role and adopt the character's accent, Woodall watched videos of television personality Joey Essex.

Funny then that he has the same accent in the interviews he's done since filming wrapped. Maybe he's doing an Austin Butler

A taste of Aubrey being Aubrey.

The best was when Aubrey Plaza did press with Dan Levy for Happiest Season. I can’t remember what show they were on - but he was flaming out about Christmas and she sat there silently and finally just said “wait… aren’t you Jewish?”

He looked like he wanted to strangle her through the zoom camera.

She seems a lot more fun than Harper.

I want Mike White to return to the Amazing Race. With Jennifer Coolidge as his partner.

I don't watch reality TV anymore but I would watch the Amazing Race with all White Lotus actors. That could be great. I'd love to see Jennifer C and Connie Britton exhausted and under pressure and trying to get favors from airport staffs. Jennifer would be crying and and laughing and making kissy faces and wiggling and groping herself all while saying 'Cmon, I just have to get on that flight mmmmm you gotta do this for me, Honey" *smack smack kiss kiss wiggle wiggle sob*.

Haley Lu talks about the intense response to Portia's outfits. Basically she says Portia is a mess which her outfits reflect

BTS

I just can not imagine AD like pussy

Aubrey was not cast to type for once. Harper is rigid and overly serious without any sign of a sense of humor, although she would insist that she has a good one and look down on anyone who she thought was too dumb to see that. Aubrey is almost never serious about anything and her approach to being "awkward" is that she deadpans preposterous things and then acts offended when people laugh at them, which then makes them feel like they've offended her, which amuses her. Harper doesn't have any inkling of this kind of eccentricity or sense of humor, whether or not you appreciate Aubrey's humor.

That is interesting r133, and I can see that getting tiresome for people around her. Although I guess once you realize what she's doing you can just laugh more when she starts going into her offended routine.

DiMarco is a cute guy, but he has about five years left of a youngish face.

He is 32 already r135, how long do you expect him to have a Babyface? He was already playing (presumably) much younger than his actual age in this show.

And I agree r132. He gives me gay vibes, don't know any gossip but just the vibe in interviews.

Related to the Aubrey Plaza critiques: she is pretty brilliant in Emily the Criminal, movie streaming now on Netflix. A broad action plot - a girl (believably) slipping into a life of crime. She is big but nuanced at the same time... especially in her two scenes where she is interviewing for a job. One of those actresses (as she showed in WL) where you can clearly see her thinking in her eyes and body language.

R88 OP ed columns: duh, they are exactly intended to represent ONLY the opinion of the writer, not the paper. This has been clear for, oh I don't know, 200 years? You've confused an Op Ed with and Editorial.

[quote] Usually the Op-Ed columns do reflect the whole paper's opinion

Well, you pulled that out of your ass.

The NYTimes has regular op-ed columnists who of course have different opinions on all kinds of things: Goldberg, Ross Douthat, Maureen Dowd, Roxane Gay, Gail Collins, John McWhorter, Bret Stephens... To say that any one of them reflects the newspaper's opinion is ridiculous. They have an editorial board that prints its own editorials that often differ from the columnists.

The Little Hours was an unexpected treat, starting with the title.

Career Uptick #1...

She is a lovely wopman, and the one among the young relative unknowns I would most pick for a successful adult career.

I want Coolidge and White to do the life of Muffin Hemmingway next!

Mike White’s joy for survivor was very endearing…

This is interesting. Aubrey is from Delaware. Her mom had her at age 19, went to night school and became a lawyer, and Aubrey moved to LA, auditioned for a Judd Apatow movie and Parks and Rec and another movie her first week and was cast in all of them.

R115, my bad. You are correct. I apologize.

R123 Leo appears to be Jack dialed down a few notches, and sweeter.

R16 why is your American friend opening anything in Sicily? And how did he get that approved? Sicily is not like America where they allow just anyone to just open businesses there.

R17 that will only cause Sicily to do what Venice is doing, charging entry fees to tourists. Italy and Sicily are not built to be “overcrowded” the way most of America is. And they know it, which is why they’re trying to limit the amount of tourists there at once.

With Leo and Billy Magnussen, Meghann seems to have a type.

R149 they’re white with blonde hair and blue eyes. However, different heights and very different faces.

Leo's eyes are clearly closer together.

R146 In this he seems to be coming on to Adam just a bit, and getting him slightly flustered.

Maybe wishful thinking on my part.

R56 tell me you’re joking. Please.

R126 I love how you always repost thing I post…

R154 Huh?

r146

they do look smitten with each other

I just noticed in the clip at R146 that Albie tells his father "You can't just buy people off."

In the end, he told his father he could buy him off to manipulate his mother for $50k.

Leo Woodall is not gay.

But let's not stop you two fangurls from shipping them to your hearts' content.

If you've never had a straight guy flirt with you r158 then that's on you

R158 shipping them?

It's slang for fantasizing about people being in a relationship ('shipping).

[quote]She is a lovely wopman, and the one among the young relative unknowns I would most pick for a successful adult career.

"wopman", seriously ?! Please stop with the Italian slurs. Fuck off.

"We did some stuff. And there was no penetration."

R98 "but she seems to know her way around a hole and a pole"

What does that mean?

Dora Dumbfuck at r164.

Hole = her pussy Pole = his cock

[quote] What does that mean?

It means she's a street maintenance worker, Rose.

R165 I know what that saying means, you dumbass I'm asking why would she know her way around the hole?

God, what a great gig doing that show sounds like.

You get to stay in paradise at a five-star hotel, get fucked by your hot co-stars, and do shrooms with the others.

I give this series one more season, then that's it.

At this point it's up to Mike White how long he wants to keep doing it r169. It's a hit for HBO and relatively cheap to make compared to some of their other hits.

R167 BECAUSE SHE HAS ONE!!!!!!!!!

Jesus fuck.

r152 Adam DiMarco is very good at playing gay. Did you think it was coincidental that they just happened to wear heavy jackets on an interview set where other cast members had also given interviews, but in breezy clothing?

Off topic but I’ve been binging the Bold Type on Hulu just to see more of Meghann Fahy. The show is fun, sort of like a Devil Wears Prada in a prime time soap format. And guess what, Meghann is the best thing about that show too! I think she is gonna end up being a big, big star.

Meghann Fahy is definitely the big winner of this season r173. She came into this show pretty unknown, and the entire entertainment industry watches this show and learned about her and how good she was. The roles are definitely going to be coming in.

As superb as Meghann Fahey was, her looks actually might make her hard to cast in other serious dramas since she's so conventionally pretty. She looks like a soap opera actress. Of course there are a very few actresses who also have those kind of looks who have made it to the very top, like Michelle Pfeiffer and Nicole Kidman, but they are both more photogenic that Fahey is (though I think she's as talented, and maybe that's enough).

Meghann Fahey is average good looking. I loved her on the show, but honestly do not think I would recognize her if I saw her on the street tonight.

My sense is that she will prove one of those actors like Jessica Chastain who's looks seem to change with the role.

[quote]He gives me gay vibes, don't know any gossip but just the vibe in interviews.

Have you never played, "Gay or Canadian?"

It's hard to tell with some of them depending on the area.

[quote]She looks like a soap opera actress.

I think the fact that she looks the way she does but also, as we saw here, can portray someone bubbly on the surface, but actually hardened with a bit of an edge might serve her well. She's someone you hire if you want to portray a conventionally pretty person with actual depth.

I'm glad Mike White gave her the chance to shine.

R171 Every woman knows her way around HER OWN hole. Why even mention that, you nimrod?

I bet Meghan Fahey would be excellent in the role of some '80s televangelist's wife, all made up with shoulder pads and big hair.

R175 She was styled in the show like a soap opera actress. She had beauty pageant hair, she was backlit to glow, she wore pretty feminine dresses. It's funny to me that people see someone like that onscreen and believe that the actor is supernaturally beautiful and walks around in daily life glowing like a Lord of the Rings elf.

Mess up or cut her hair, put some glasses and baggy clothes on the woman and she can look as scraggly as anyone. Add a terribly dark fake tan, and she could pass for any alcoholic mother from Florida.

She is very, very pretty, but styling, makeup, lighting and—where acting comes in—how a person carries themself create what we see. This is why there are also so many makeover stories both on reality-based TV shows and in teen movies. "Beautiful" most often equates to glamour—lots and lots of time spent by skilled people on hair, makeup, lighting, well-fitting attire, and standing up straight. "Ugly" can be created with a pair of glasses, slouching posture, a jutted-out jaw and ordinary room lighting.

Daphne could've been a vapid social media show off type, taking pictures of everything to create content for her social media brand. I guess, White wanted her to be more than that.

I am binge-re-watching this and it's interesting to see how much foreshadowing there is. What really comes across is how the rich are preyed on, and how unwary they are.

[quote]I bet Meghan Fahey would be excellent in the role of some '80s televangelist's wife, all made up with shoulder pads and big hair.

Stay out of my lane, bitch.

I just watched the finale and the ending wasn't a surprise at all. I figured out Greg and his friends were after her money when that guy mentioned he was in love with a cowboy from Wyoming. It wasn't very subtle. Sadly, since Tanja is a dumb cunt who can't call the hotel receptionist to get her a boat to pick her up, get off the fucking boat and swim to the very close shore or get on a fucking boat without drowning, he will get all her money now.

Why didn't she call the police and ask for help? The shiny big police boat picked up her body the very next day. Why did she even get on a boat with them after she saw the picture of her husband in his bedroom? Why didn't the dumb cunt just call the police after she already killed everyone? No need to get on that boat now anyway.

I was also screaming at the screen why the dumb assistant didn't leave the chav at the hotel after he fell asleep or after breakfast and even got into a car with him. She knew something was wrong. Get a fucking taxi or rental car, but don't confront him AFTER getting into his car.

Also, are fellow Americans really that dumb that they give random hookers $50k? I really thought the grandpa would see right through this scheme and stop this nonsense. And I certainly wouldn't pay a hooker $2k if we didn't agree to that before we fucked. Arbie went to Stanford but they obviously don't teach common sense at these schools. What a naive dumb cunt.

It's a comedy-drama, so I don't take it too seriously. The comedy is in depicting a caricature of characters.

I don't think Greg will get all Tanya's money. Portia -- the hot mess that she is -- will find a way to stop that from happening.

Get your shit together, Portia!

R184, Tanya’s phone earlier met the same fate as Tanya.

The two posters squabbling over the eye colors are the Harper and Ethan of this thread.

r189 Except some people find Harper and Ethan fuckable.

R184, on one hand, I agree but on the other, I shudder when I look back at all the dumb stuff I did when I was younger only because I didn't want to come off like the bad guy. Stupid. Can't believe I'm alive sometimes.

I think Cameron knows the kids aren't his; when he was in the bathroom the look on his face was the last thing I want to do is facetime with these kids who aren't even mine but he put on a good front for them.

[quote]I think Cameron knows the kids aren't his; when he was in the bathroom the look on his face was the last thing I want to do is facetime with these kids who aren't even mine but he put on a good front for them.

I think that's true, and it also may have indicated that his whole persona is a front.

But wouldn’t Cameron faking the smile make him a good person?

R184, actually Portia's actions are the only ones that make sense. She had no money to rent a car or get a taxi. She could not reach Tonya. Being stranded without enough money to stay anywhere or leave was more frightening then getting in a car with the sketchy hot guy.

I remember making a few similar choices under similar circumstances in my twenties.

r184, I guess all those dumb cunts must have been disappointing to someone of your vast intelligence, as demonstrated by your sophisticated vocabulary.

No way r186. Portia definitely took Jack's advice to heart. She was getting the fuck out of dodge and leaving all that mess behind her. She could have gone to the cops or tried to help Tanya, but what does she really owe her? She is looking out for herself.

I love Seth Meyer's Jennifer Coolidge impression

Usually I hate movies and TV shows where the main character has to be incredibly dumb just to move the plot forward but Mike White did an excellent job of establishing the faults of these characters so their actions, even if they are stupid, make sense. He also does it in a way where it's not too obvious.

[quote]Sadly, since Tanja is a dumb cunt who can't call the hotel receptionist to get her a boat to pick her up, get off the fucking boat and swim to the very close shore or get on a fucking boat without drowning, he will get all her money now.

Like this one. The show established that Tanya can not take care of herself. The show established that she can also be insightful, like figuring out something is wrong and not waiting around for something to happen to her. So while she's able to take out the men, she's not able to save herself successfully. She does ask the man about the photo that looks like Greg when she wasn't drugged out but she's not fast enough on her feet to do something to avoid going on that boat with him. She does notice that the one guy who stayed behind was crying when she left (probably because he actually did like her) but not enough to question him.

[quote]I was also screaming at the screen why the dumb assistant didn't leave the chav at the hotel after he fell asleep or after breakfast and even got into a car with him. She knew something was wrong. Get a fucking taxi or rental car, but don't confront him AFTER getting into his car.

Like you pointed out, the show established that she is a mess. Her clothing is a mess, intentionally. She can't tell Albie to fuck off directly. She just goes along with everything aimlessly. She doesn't want to work with Tanya but she can't quit her job. She's a person that's easily led along without making any decisions for herself. As Tanya told her, they're alike and she needed to get her shit together.

So she was smart enough to call Tanya on Jack's phone but she wasn't strong enough to not get into the car with Jack. She didn't run away at the hotel when her phone, that she knew she had plugged in and was charging, was missing.

[quote]Also, are fellow Americans really that dumb that they give random hookers $50k?

Finally the show established that Albie still loves women who are "wounded birds." He's a "nice guy" and respects women without (a twist) being an incel. He said it himself. All the woman had to do was to convince Albie that she was in trouble and he came to her "rescue," he's too nice and respectful to think that she's playing him. Then again, the only reason that father gave him that money was to, as established, have even the slightest chance of getting his wife back because it was that important to him. The 50K was worth it for a chance to talk to his wife and not have her immediately shut him down and for him to start to heal his relationship with Albie who clearly had issues with him.

Can you really say he respects women when he was willing to sell his mom out and give her bad advice in order to give 50k to a hooker?

Also, I don't see how him not being an incel is a twist.

Albie's arc this season was going from this "nice guy" to being like his father. He grows to view women and sex as transactional and is willing to sell out any of his supposed morals. You can't buy people he tells his father early in season, then the finale he is offering his terms to be bought. And of course the final airport scene where they all turn to gawk at the girl at the same time just is putting a fine point on it.

R193, I think Cameron's resolved to being a good dad. Maybe he doesn't want to admit Daphne cheated on him and this is just another game but if he's nice to the kids then that's huge; yes, it makes him a good guy.

I found Theo James' charm to be disarming; Cameron strikes me as the type of guy who'd fuck a guy to get what he wants and if the guy falls in love with Cameron along the way? God help him.

[quote]Can you really say he respects women when he was willing to sell his mom out and give her bad advice in order to give 50k to a hooker?

That was me talking about the person he was telling Portia he was when they went out to eat together the first time. When she asks if he's a nice guy and he starts talking about wounded birds. Then later when he's at brunch with Portia talking about cinema and the way the father and grandfather treat women.

As they implied when Portia left to meet Tanya, they're all from different generations and while the language changes they're all still the same. The difference is, the kind of guy Albie is presenting himself as wouldn't have ever questioned the hooker. The father saw through her rather quickly. In the end they only cared about their dicks.

[quote]Also, I don't see how him not being an incel is a twist.

Because the internet is bigger than Datalounge and between Reddit and Twitter people were ready for him to attack Portia the minute he rejected her.

Instead he got over her fairly quickly.

[quote]Because the internet is bigger than Datalounge and between Reddit and Twitter people were ready for him to attack Portia the minute he rejected her.

And the world is bigger than social media. Just because a few people on Twitter thought it was going to go one way doesn't make it a twist at all. An incel wouldn't have spoken to Portia in the first place.

I never thought Albie was going to do anything all t

Sorry, I'll start over:

I never thought Albie was going to do anything all that bad or that out of character as people here were erroneously predicting. It would not have made sense for his character to attack anyone physically. I thought the people on Datalounge who were claiming that would happen had seen to many episodes of "Dynasty" or daytime soap operas, and were expecting it would proceed similarly. (This regularly happens on this board, and though it used to annoy me, now it is a source of constant amusement.)

[quote]I thought the people on Datalounge who were claiming that would happen had seen to many episodes of "Dynasty"

Didn't you hear? Nobody ever claimed it would happen!

R172 Adam DiMarco looks way shorter in this clip than expected, shorter than most of the other characters. He's supposedly 5'11", but sure does appear taller in WL.

5'11" is pretty tall, since the average height of American men is 5'9".

I'm 6'2", and I would consider someone that height tall.

Harper had me at "I don't watch it" wrt Ted Lasso.

Mike White’s “ Enlightened” with Laura Dern was wonderful. It’s still on HBO. It’s well-worth a watch.

Tanya is one of those character who shout at others that they are about to drive over a cliff, while not realizing she herself is about to drive over a cliff. A lot of people are incredibly clueless when it comes to their own flaws and their own trajectory in life.

The White Lotus is more satire and social commentary than family drama.

^But I also think that what made Tanya interesting was that while she was clueless 98% percent of the time, she does have these rare moments of insight that make the character more interesting. But she screws that up too - like when she realizes maybe she shouldn't have screwed over Belinda, but rather than pondering how she treats people, she just thinks Belinda put a curse on her.

I re-watched it too & I was kind of surprised about how moving Dom's character was. Your first impression of him is "asshole" and while he doesn't necessarily shed that impression, he's clearly sorry for how his behavior has brought him to this point. That scene with him telling off the father was very moving.

I didn't think much of Dom at all. He saw how his father had hurt his mother through his chronic infidelity, and like Albie, he could have resolved never to do that. He doesn't seem sorry for what he did, only sorry for the consequences. He had organised online to hook up with Lucia before he left the US. He bribes Albie to intercede on his behalf and it seems likely that Abby will be further hurt, because he has not changed. Instead of a family reunion, Dom should have spent a month in rehab for his sex addiction.

Who would be hotter in bed, abundantly experienced Cameron or animal Jack?

[quote] Tanja

Oh, dear!

[quote] Arbie

C'mon now. Now you're being aggressively ignorant.

Dom is just an asshole with money. He has problems and throws money at them. The Di Grasso guys are all types of assholes who talk big and act all high almighty. Bert is a chauvinistic old coot who insists his wife loved and worshiped him despite cheating on her constantly, and Albie is the woke douche who sees himself as a noble savior of wounded birds. None of them really respect women's independence and self agency.

At the end, they all stare at the same girl at the airport. Cut from the same cloth.

Was Jack meant to take Portia to the airport or was he meant to keep her away and bring her back after Tanya was killed? He was not meant to kill her.

Yeah, I never thought Jack's job was to murder Portia. If it had been, he would not have spent so much time entertaining and distracting her. She was annoying. She clearly got on his nerves with all her whining and fretting. He could have dispatched her immediately, used her phone records to create false evidence to make her look like a guilty participant in whatever was meant to happen to Tonya, and still had time to go back and be an extra set of hands and brawn to help "uncle" get rid of Tanya. He wasn't a murderer. He was a dumb hooker who had dug himself into a deep "hole" and was doing what he had to to survive, but his utility was not to serve as a hitman.

That's why Jack told her not to go back to her hotel. Somebody would've killed her there

But what exactly was Jack's job? Distracting Portia, and then what? Bring her back to the mansion, where the guy from Quentin's entourage is waiting for her? Bring her back to the hotel, where she immediately runs to the police when she hears about her boss being kidnapped or worse?

Portia was a loose end for Quentin's plan, whatever his plan was.

Jack called them dangerous men, but he failed to specify how are they dangerous.

The whole murder plot falls apart fast when you consider that Jack was adament that Quentin was broke, but getting some new cash fast. Murdering a rich heiress, so Greg would inherit her money wouldn't be fast. It could take years for the investigation if Tanya's murder is suspicious. Nicollo's duffle bag had rope and duct tape. You can't fake an accident with that. I believe Quentin acted on his own and was only scaring Tanya to give him money. That would be quick and she'd be too embarrassed for being taken advantage of to go to the police or scared of the Mafia to take revenge if she blabbed.

I think that's where the whole talk of Jack was heading. The Mafia is involved, don't talk to anyone, Portia. And I think that was the same thing Quentin would've told Tanya to keep her quiet after she had given him the money.

I could see Niccolo staging taking Quentin and the gays hostage as well.

Wasn't this whole plan kind of ridiculous? Niccolo had robe and tape and obviously wanted to murder Tanya. Why not stage an accident? And the assistant should actually be a witness and tell the police her boss died in a freak accident. The perfect opportunity would have been an accidental overdose at the party or a staged accident on a slippery surface on the yacht were she breaks her neck. Those fags were amateurs.

The rope and tape really puts a spanner in the 'they were going to stage her accidental death' theory. It would be super easy to just drop her over the side of the boat like how she really did die or something else. But also they filmed her having sex and probably also filmed her taking drugs. No reason to do those things if it was about killing her - if she died, she died, it doesn't make a difference to what Greg inherits.

I think in the end what the thing is is that murder is a big deal. It attracts investigation and can land you in prison for life. So it's something you do want to avoid if possible. And when so many people seem to be in on the plan, you have to think that it probably isn't murder because it's hard to imagine all those people being ok with actual murder.

I want to see Greg get his karma in season 3. They don't have to spend a lot of time on it but that plot line is still unresolved.

More Jack Ass please.

R213, Albie is going to turn into Dom, who is also turning into Bert. I think that was the point of the three generations of men all turning around to check out those young chicks at the airport. They're a family of womanizers.

I wonder if those boys had to audition in bathing suits or provide underwear shots; Jack's body was sooo sexy and Albie's butt in that bathing suit seemed to defy gravity.

yeah, he's young but still.

And just once r227, maybe somebody in that family can just fucking admit it and not get married, and not make some stupid asinine promise to always be faithful when they clearly will not. Maybe that could be Albie, but I suspect he'll just wander into some idiotic marriage full of lies and nonsense. If he's lucky, he'll find some whore like Lucia who just wants money and doesn't give a shit if he cheats.

R209 Harper's best line, "What's with the boner?"

My favorite line "Portia, I know you like this guy but....well, he fucked his uncle"

“He's gonna pay them with my money so they can decorate their houses or some shit!” - Tanya

Now this over my thoughts:

Like in the first season, the commentary on the series was as much enjoyable as the series itself.

The two couples quartet ended up being a little bit less than it promised. The guys were eye candy, their wives missed a really good moment, with the exception of

Daphne at the beach. There has been some discussion here wether she was good or evil. Of course she’s neither. You begin the series thinking she’s some dumb generic blonde trophy wife and she reveals herself to be more nuanced. On the other hand, her passive aggressiveness at her husband, whom she can’t confront, is far from admirable.

The Aubrey Plaza character on the other hand, was even denied such scene. She finds herself superior without any evidence as why.

Love the Mia character. She starts as a seemingly reluctant whore, influenced by her friends, and ends up being much more ruthless to sing at the piano. Still, her final moments with Valentina were nice.

Albie begins judging his father and grandfather’s attitude to women and ends up in a transactional relationship with a whore and unashamedly looking up a woman at the airport, exactly like his family. He has been absolutely corrupted.

Finally, Tanya. Much as been said and speculated. In my not very original view, she is perfectly complicit in her own demise. She does not question for a moment why a group of strange men decide to fete her. The flattery she thinks shedeserves blinds her and she only suspects something is off aciddently. Her degree of laziness and lethargy is such she jumps ship without bothering to remove her high heels.

^Total agreement about Daphne; when we first meet her, she seems so shallow & silly & by the final scene when she's comforting her hurt baby husband, we see her in a totally different light. And you're right, the Plaza character doesn't get that kind of complexity. She starts out with this non-undeserved sense of superiority to Cam & Daphne, but then has to admit that they have a kind of love & bond that she doesn't. But she doesn't get any kind of revelation other than her husband finally fucks her.

Even though she was a complete hot mess, I was rooting for Tanya to make it so she could go on with her oblivious life, probably firing Portia for leaving her to hang out with Mr. Uncle Fucker & giving the WL a bad review because the gays tried to kill her

"The Aubrey Plaza character on the other hand, was even denied such scene. She finds herself superior without any evidence as why."

I can't say I follow all her work but I've seen her on talk shows; I think Plaza was just behaving.

R233, I think you make some great points but I don't think Tanya believed she deserved all that attention; she was starved for it and took it wherever she could get it.

She's definitely a cautionary tale; there's a reason people who get super rich keep the old friends they had when they were poor.

Would Cameron go so far as to fuck Ethan if he felt it was in his best interests?

Perhaps a better question is would Cameron fuck a gay guy if he wanted to pull a power play?

With a cock like that you know Cameron would seek out worshipers wherever he can find them. It's his calling.

I ended up enjoying this season more than the first one, but I still have a lot of problems with it. I wish the show could maintain the level that the Ethan/Daphne scene had. It was just a cut above most of the rest of it. I also thought the Mia/Valentina scene at the end was close to it.

R236, i agree as well, thinking about it there are moments she looks doubtful at all the flattery, though it still works. Agreed also as to totally cautionary tale .

As to Aubrey Plaza i think her character promised a complexity it wasn’t there. But herself as an actress failed to turned it around somehow (either looking more superficial at the start, or more startled at the end). The Daphne actress did this without much of written dialogue.

Oh, and forgot this, unlike the first season there are a bunch of characters who are mere illustrations and do not evolve: Michael Imperioli, F. Murray Abrahams and Theo James remain unchanged by the experience. Even Lucia remain the same, only your per eption of her chances somehow. In the first season almost all characters were affected, but this last one is more realistic, actually.

Shane didn't change in season 1 and he killed someone.

I don't think Mike White really believes in the idea in people suddenly turning over a new leaf and change for the better. People through both seasons either largely stayed the same or swept off the polite venner over their real selves.

Don't forget Season 1 ended with Shane's wife deciding she did rather be the trophy wife of Shane than trying to do the "right thing". That was the big reveal of the S1 finale moreso than the murder and illustrates what Mike White is trying to say about human nature.

[quote]Wasn't this whole plan kind of ridiculous? Niccolo had robe and tape and obviously wanted to murder Tanya. Why not stage an accident? And the assistant should actually be a witness and tell the police her boss died in a freak accident. The perfect opportunity would have been an accidental overdose at the party or a staged accident on a slippery surface on the yacht were she breaks her neck.

Well, the slipping-and-falling would have been almost impossible to stage in such a way that it would convince Portia it was an accident. And an "accidental overose" would also have raised suspicions with Portia right there, and they would have been held responsible in an inevitable inquiry.

I just thought Niccolo brought along the duct tape and the cords as back-up in case she didn't buy the plan to row her back to land on the dinghy, and then along the way throw her off. If they could have got her to agree to that (which she might have done had she not seen the photo and then had her suspicions confirmed by Portia's call), the plan would have probably had a much higher chance of working.

I don't think the High-End Gays were used to killing people, and they just hired Niccolo because he was local muscle and willing to kill someone. (I don't think the Mafia was necessarily backing the plan--they might have just hired him to do this one-off murder, and he was a psychopath and willing to do it.) I think it was intended by Mike White to be a somewhat sloppy plan, since the HEGs probably had never done anything like this before.

r243, I think if any of them changed for the better this season it would probably be Portia. She at least now knows there are worse things than having a boring hot boy with a wealthy father be after her--I doubt she'll want to be fucked again by someone like Jack now she knows how awful he was and that he was only interested in her to carry out Quentin's plan. Also, i would bet Valentina will have more confidence sexually now that she's finally had sex with a woman.

I think Ethan and Harper's marriage is probably going to be better for a while, but I think it's doomed in the long run.

Cameron and Daphne clearly learned nothing, and I doubt any of the Di Grassos did either (although Albie will probably never again think he can "save" a prostitute just by throwing money at her--but I think so many young men I know get taken for money by sexual partners that maybe he got off lucky since it was just his dad's money and not his own). I am sure Dominic will cheat on his wife again, and Bert will continue to be a big-talking lewd and sleazy asshole until he dies.

Lucia and Mia have probably learned to be even more conniving in the future, which will likely get Lucia in more trouble.

So, did Lucia buy the dress shop with the $50k? Stop whoring? Buy a small villa?

Well, I'm not sure you can get a villa for $50k, but I understand there is a somewhat dilapidated one that recently lost its owner under mysterious circumstances.

If Portia wasn’t supposed to go back to the hotel, who and what were waiting for her? Greg?

Jack had no idea that the gay cabal failed at murdering Tanya. So, Jack fully expected them to be back at hotel/area celebrating their win.

If Portia started to ask too many questions or cause a stink, Jack or Nico would have murdered her

Or actually, maybe even before she started to ask question

Of all the series, Daphne’s little diatribe about happiness and not being a victim really resonated with me. You can sit in your misery or change your perspective..

How can a murder plan include so many people? Very weak plot.

When Jack said that sometimes you have to do things you don't want to, do you think he meant being part of a conspiracy to murder, or having sex with Quentin (or Portia)?

I think the next season will include a few flashbacks and weave a little more back story into this season, we’ll see the “why”, and some of Greg’s story. I also think there’s a surprise in Tonya’s will!

If the police can find any link between Greg and the Sicily gay crew or Niccolo, wouldn't he be a suspect, given that he had a motive to kill Tanya?

Daphne is cut from the same cloth as Rachel in S1. They traded on their looks to bag a wealthy husband and sold out their pride and integrity for the money and lifestyle.

A big if r253. It's possible there is some phonecall, but if nobody knows to look for it, who knows.

Honestly, I would assume if I knew nothing going into this that it was a kidnap and ransom attempt that Tanya managed to foil before dying tragically by accident. Yes, the husband does inherit a huge fortune, but he has a hell of a lot of plausible deniability. Would anybody other than Tanya pick up on that photo? I suppose there are little clues out there, but then we always imagine thorough, obsessive, never let it rest investigations by dedicated detectives that almost never really happen.

The photo itself seemed like SUCH a sloppy loose end to leave hanging about. Like, how could Quentin have forgotten to remove that from the premises?

I think it should have ended with the yacht crashing on the beach, killing all the characters, then exploding in a massive fireball whose debris burns down the White Lotus resort.

No one would have ever predicted that ending.

[quote] Daphne is cut from the same cloth as Rachel in S1.

Not quite. Rachel reluctantly agreed to swallow her pride and stay with Shane. Daphne has a different mindset and makes the marriage work by retaliating, refusing to be a victim. Something we don't see Rachel in season one being capable of.

I don't think anyone predicted Tanya dying. Although there were signs like the fortune-teller freaking out or as Tanya called it being negative. And then Tanya's "You know, she dies at the end!", Portia asking "Who?" and Tanya responding "Madame Butterfly".

White is the kind of guy who keeps things vague and ambiguous.

R259, the tarot card reader pulled the Devil card for the middle card. Just a bit of foreshadowing.

[quote] No one would have ever predicted that ending.

Except any and all Dynasty viewers. That's Moldavian Massacre Redux.

[quote] Of all the series, Daphne’s little diatribe about happiness and not being a victim really resonated with me. You can sit in your misery or change your perspective..

You can sit on the floor in a pile of shit or you can steal someone's chair and sit in the pile of shit. You're still sitting in a pile of shit. The stench is the same.

Hee, true r261. Although if I remember the Moldavian massacre was actually a big dud when it came to who actually died. I suppose in White Lotus it would turn out to just be the piano player and maybe the bitch at the front desk with her fiancee.

[quote] You can sit on the floor in a pile of shit or you can steal someone's chair and sit in the pile of shit. You're still sitting in a pile of shit. The stench is the same.

Daphne can afford designer air fresheners from the money her husband makes. How about you? Does your high almighty attitude keep the air around you fresh at all times?

R262, But, Daphne is doing neither. She’s actually completely removing herself from this foul metaphorical pile by a calculated cheating on Cam and (possibly) having children with her trainer. It’s also strongly suggested in the end of the series that she and Ethan fucked as well.

If Daphne chose to take up banal hobbies to while way her days and then rationalize to someone she’s not a victim, then I might agree that she’’s just sitting in a chair that’s still in the middle of a pile of shit.

Daphne is still getting that dick on the regular, she doing just fine.

But Daphne didn't start out a female player; her revenge fucking is just a reaction to her husband's chronic infidelity. No matter what she says, she's hurt, bitter and angry. But she can't give up the lifestyle Cam has given her, so she puts up with it. Also, she knows that anyone else as young, hot and rich as Cam would probably be the same.

Someone like Ethan might be faithful. But he would be pretty boring in bed.

[quote]Daphne can afford designer air fresheners from the money her husband makes.

All the designer air fresheners in the world can't mask the hurt, humiliation and anger she feels.

r191 and r192 Cameron is way to egotistical and fragile to raise another man's kids. I think most men would be annoyed to have to facetime and play daddy with their real kids on vacation. I think the point is he is so absorbed with getting away with whatever he can on his own world, he is too obtuse to put two and two together and figure out those aren't even his kids. He's probably the type who thinks he is smarter than anyone else in the room and that his wife would never do anything like that. Very Eyes Wide Shut - which this series pulled a lot from as source material for relationships. "If you men only knew..."

Who wants to guess at what actually happened in the cove with Daphne and Ethan?

I don't think they had sex. But I can totally see her getting naked in front of him, letting him see her body. He is into porn and I can even see her masturbating in front of him while he ends up jacking off to it, cumming in the sand. And then her probably saying something like, "Now we have our own secret. Don't you feel better?"

[quote]Who would be hotter in bed, abundantly experienced Cameron or animal Jack?

I guess it depends on if you're looking to get your ass fucked.

[quote]If Portia wasn’t supposed to go back to the hotel, who and what were waiting for her? Greg?

She knew they had intentionally arranged for her to be separated from Tanya. She already had spoken to Tanya who thought something was up after stealing Jack's phone. They would have immediately thought Tanya might have said something to her.

Those two things alone made her a problem if anyone came asking questions of the person Tanya was there with.

The fact that Jack didn't even give her the option of going back (she'd be "stupid" to) by taking her directly to the airport and refusing to go any further, even when he was supposed to take her back, made it obvious someone was going to off her too. She knew too much.

[quote]But Daphne didn't start out a female player; her revenge fucking is just a reaction to her husband's chronic infidelity. No matter what she says, she's hurt, bitter and angry.

Exactly, she sort of made this clear a few times in the series. As she told Harper and then later Ethan, she had to learn how to deal with what was happening with Cameron and her marriage. She wasn't going to be a victim but liked the money/security and her children.

As an aside: I'm also sure she was hurt by Harper's possible betrayal. She thought she was different.

It's interesting to me that although Mike White has allowed some of the marriages "happy endings" within the series, the only one I can see surviving from either season for another ten years is Connie Britton's and Steve Zahn's from season one--and even that one seems deeply dysfunctional.

Cameron and Daphne's seems built on a veneer of denial masking infidelity and contempt; Ethan will likely go back to his porn; Abby will soon discover yet again that Dominic is constitutionally incapable of fidelity; and Rachel (Alexandria Daddario from season 1) will stay with Shane (Jake Lacy) only long enough for her to wait out the ten years of a standard prenup... if she can even wait that long.

ya'll really overthink this shit.

Looking for new streaming content to distract/inform/entertain me. I'm a fan of Enlightened, just not sure I want to re-watch it at this point. Any recommendations?

Was it ever confirmed, or even heavily implied, that Daphne and Ethan actually hooked up? To me that doesn't seem in line with either character, particularly his. Regarding the whole murder/kidnapping thing, now looking back I feel like that was a whole lot of nothing. Others have pointed out the gaping holes in the gay guys' caper. The only way I could see the story salvaged is by Tanya's death being a legit accident and the whole Greg/Quentin connection as coincidence. The idea of them shaking down one of Quentin's ex-crush's (possibly out of jealousy) would make sense, with the whole thing going wrong and Tanya, doing what she did, separate from any instigation on Greg's part. That whole storyline, from the first episode of Greg angrily shooing Portia away and the late night phone call telling someone he loved them seemed to clunkily expositional and set-up. Plus, it seemed odd to have Greg sand Tanya so miserable from the get go in the second season. I know time passed, but it seemed a little soon without more. That everyone on this board predicted the Greg as cowboy "surprise" is a good example of that.

R276, Leaving things deliberately vague between Daphne and Ethan is sort of the point.

I’ve dated guys like Cam, here’s the thing- they will NEVER change, so get your own side game going if you’re to stay with them.

Daphne’s seen more cock than any other of the other characters, I loved how the actress processed the cheating.

I'm watching Vanity Fair from this list, and it is great. I also suggest Why Women Kill if you haven't seen it.

I just realised who Portia reminds me of....

It’s “y’all,” R274.

Daphne's speech to Ethan in the last episode was a series highlight.

And that series included a lot of male hardbodies and dick shots and testosterone.

I'd be afraid to know a Cameron in real life and if he wanted anything from me all he'd have to do is put his arm around me and call me buddy and pull me into him.

Instant boner.

[quote] Daphne's speech to Ethan in the last episode was a series highlight.

I also enjoyed her revealing chats with Harper in Nodo. The first I had heard the term Dark Triad, and now see how it so aptly describes many in public life.

^I liked that speech too; she practically conceded "yeah, Cameron is a boorish fool, but he's nothing compared to these other guys in finance" - you really didn't expect this level of insight & candor from someone who appeared so superficial and more than a bit shady.

Women who marry rich guys are different breed. Unless they come from wealth and/or the upper class, they know they have to work to keep their meal ticket. No bailing on sex after they have their children for them. Sex is on the menu every single night, and you can be sure they will not be getting fat. Putting up with cheating is something they accept. They know there are dozens of women who will gladly replace them, all the more so as they age out. Daphne is one of these women.

Yes, r284.

A whore.

[quote]Putting up with cheating is something they accept. They know there are dozens of women who will gladly replace them, all the more so as they age out.

And they're constantly in fear that the next one he cheats with will be the one who replaces her.

What stands out for me is that, this season, it was mainly about characters who complain about their so-called comfort zone (or privilege), but when push comes to shove fall back on their old habits.

Tanya could've ended her misery by just divorcing Greg and start a new, more independent life, but instead she chose codependency.

Portia could've saved Tanya's life by acting quicker and more forcefully, but instead chose to be dicked around by Jack (just like she was bossed around by Tanya).

Daphne could divorce Cameron and live comfortable with whatever generous divorce settlement she get out of Cameron (who sure wouldn't want his peers to know that the kids are not his and look like a pathetic shmuck). But instead she chooses to play her games.

Dominic is frustrated that his womanizing cost him his marriage, but it doesn't look like he changes his ways after he managed to buy his son's help.

Albie is ok with being treated like a doormat by women, because he thinks it makes him a better person than his dad.

The big exceptions are Harper and Ethan who manage to leave their old selves behind to redefine their relationship and their places in it.

Is it just me or is Jack (Leo Woodall) the epitome of hot rough trade?

R180 She was not backlit to glow. You are crazy.

R263 Why is that lady, a bitch? Is it because a: you are a misogynistic asswipe or b: because you are a misogynistic asswipe?

Why do so many people think that there will be big revelations about everything that happened, in the next season? I hope not. It would make it a lot more soap opera-ish. We didn't find out what happened with the characters from season one, in this season.

R286, 'once a cheater...always a cheater...'

R288 He is the hottest guy on the show. And he is probably banging the hottest girl also - Meghann Fahy. I've seen them comment on each other's Insta posts each time. The chemistry is just palpable.

R293 He looks like her little brother. By about 6 or 7 years.

I liked Daphne, but don’t really get why her character is supposed to be insightful.

Women “getting back at” their cad husbands in indirect ways is a story as old as time.

[quote]"yeah, Cameron is a boorish fool, but he's nothing compared to these other guys in finance"

I don't think she actually believes this. I think she knows her husband is just as much a psychopath as the rest of them. I am sure she knows exactly WHY they are on this vacation with this particular couple - that Cam needs money from Ethan, and doesn't want to scare away the prospects. I am not saying she is in on it, but she does know the role she needs to play. Maybe from the very beginning ever she knew Cam would have to flirt with Harper. Something about that whole relationship seemed very targeted right from the beginning.

And to be honest Daphne is a psychopath as well. What kind of person would knowingly bring other human beings into the world as an act of revenge on someone else? Those kids will be around long after them and not to know their dad, or have to lie about their dad, or be lied to about their dad. That is a very long term, vicious plan full of malicious intent just to get back at someone.

Yep, R296, I agree completely. Toxic people infect others and often turn them toxic as well. Kind of like the bite of the Zombie or the Vampire.

R294 Yeah so what. She's fucking hot.

Cameron coming on to Harper was the worst thing he could do if he wanted to get money from Ethan. Given how insecure Ethan was and how competitive their relationship was, it was inevitable that Ethan would react the way he did. Money? Not a chance!

I mostly agree with you r287, but I don't have much faith in Harper and Ethan. I assume he'll be back to passive and withdrawn and she'll be back to mopey and bitter pretty soon. Mainly, everybody seems to get the stupid marriage they deserve and then they cling desperately to it for stupid reasons.

Dominic above all, give it up bitch. Admit you hate being confined in a marriage and just go with that.

2 things on my mind:

1. What would Cameron do now that he can't finesse money from Ethan? Wasn't it implied he's in dire straits financially.

2. Will Jack just move on and find another benefactor? A waste if his pretty ass goes to prison.

There was never any indication that Cameron and Daphne were low on money. Getting money from people who have it is his job.

Cameron said that he was a bit pissed that Ethan didn't come to him right away for money advice.

I don't think that Cameron is struggling with money. To me it seems it was all about control for him. Having Ethan as his doormat and client. But it turned out that Ethan grew some balls and didn't like Cameron playing games (hitting on Harper).

White, the genius he is, kept it vague whether Ethan will be Cameron's client. Harper and Ethan wanted to dine on their own the last evening, but Cameron and Daphne spotted them and invited themselves over to Harper's and Ethan's table and Harper and Ethan went silently along with Cameron's toast.

How was Ethan not arrested for attempted murder? There was even a witness.

[quote] White, the genius he is

This seems to get a lot of play. I like his work, but genius? I know, the entire cast and others who've worked with him, make the claim. Is it the usual showbiz hyperbole?

Maybe in part it's due to the unlikely comparison to his dweeby nebish persona.

how many times have you obsessives watched this?

sad.

[quote] I liked Daphne, but don’t really get why her character is supposed to be insightful.

Lots of Dataloungers like her because (a) she's cynical and dark deep down, like they are, and (b) gets a lot of dick, like they wish she did.

Those Dataloungers never like "nice" characters.

If the first adjective that comes to mind is "nice", then that is an incredibly boringly drawn TV/film character r307. It's the entertainment industry, characters need to entertain.

I can't obsessively stop watching this....

plenty of obsessives on this thread!

I think Ethan and Daphne did screw on the island and that's why he was so hot for Harper afterward. A recurring message throughout the season was that Cameron always slept with the girls that Ethan liked. Ethan conquered Cameron's wife on the island which in turn made Ethan feel very powerful - he beat the alpha. This turned on his alpha sex drive with Harper. That's my theory anyway.

[quote]Cameron coming on to Harper was the worst thing he could do if he wanted to get money from Ethan.

That could be very true. But there was something very aggressive about Cameron's coming on to Harper, from him changing in front of her to swimming with her early on and saying he really wanted her to like him. Maybe it's just the knee jerk reaction of wanting another man's toys. Given what Daphne looks like, I can't see Cameron being sexually attracted to Harper outside of her being Ethan's wife.

[quote]1. What would Cameron do now that he can't finesse money from Ethan? Wasn't it implied he's in dire straits financially.

I don't think Cameron was in financial straits. I think he just wanted to land a big account for his company. Maybe for his job he needed to bring more money to the table and the fact that they had some kind of relationship in the past made Ethan a big get.

What do you call me who don't cheat? Jerk-0ffs.

All men with high sex drives will cheat/lie about sex eventually, most men with medium-low sex drives will cheat or jerk-off to porn or in the shower once a day.

BTW- "I am monogamous" is very different than "I am in a monogamous relationship". No one knows what another person does and men can have sex in 90 seconds in a bathroom stall while you're looking at postcards in the gift shop without you ever realizing he was gone. You think that because you track his movements and phone 24/7 that he's faithful.

If he's a horny guy, he's having sex with other people; at the gym, a bike ride, in the Home Depot parking lot or walking the dog at 11:30pm.

Oh, and if he's "likes photography" forget it. I saw a guy in the Ramble on his honeymoon step away from his bride to "take a few pictures" and then walk 100ft away and get his dick sucked. Back in 5 minutes. . (If your internal dialogue is saying "But the dog likes to out at midnight" or "He does like to take pictures in Provincetown"- Merry Christmas from the Truth Fairy. )

I would like to respond to the articulate poster above who argued that if the script doesn’t explicitly answer a question, there’s no point in speculating about what happened:

Eat doodies.

[Quote]I think Ethan and Daphne did screw on the island and that's why he was so hot for Harper afterward.

In reality, that little island/area is crowded and overrun by tourists. You can also not visit the mansion. There is no entrance for tourist. You can only walk across and sit on the small beach.

I am not sure if Cameron was having money problems. However, you do not invite a (newly minted) millionaire to an expensive vacation just because that is what good friends do. They might not have been after money right now, but there was some grifting coming up, for sure. Also, the way they spend a night apart (wives vs. husbands), Cameron and Daphne had a game plan that they executed poorly, and it backfired.

I think the insider trading is just as important as the investing.

R315 Thanks for that piece of first hand knowledge. I'll bet it's gonna be even more crowded now (mobbed even, but we don't use that word in Sicily) for some time to come.

Sorry but this series doesn’t deserve this many threads. The show sucks.

R319 Easy solution. Don't watch. Don't read. Don't post.

And Don't reply.

R320 easy solution. Fuck you!

R322 Well, now you're talking.

It does appear that The White Lotus 3 will be set in Kyoto, Japan, after all.

This should be very different and interesting.

What was Cameron and Daphne's game plan? It was pure chance that Lucia and Mia came by.

Isn't Japan too uptight for The White Lotus? Wow, I was expecting Thailand or Indonesia. Japan is not a country I would choose for a beach vacation.

^ Expect lots of bowing.

I'd like Jack to be the one to come back.

R 326, it is probably a lot easier to get competent production labor and equipment in Japan than in Thailand or Indonesia.

Japan meets the island with a volcano criteria.

I’d rather watch a sparrow devour a pile of cow shit

R331 I would suggest to switch from HBO to PBS.

I don’t know if he’s a genius but I’m pretty damn impressed by Mike White if it’s in fact true that he writes these entire damn seasons himself. Most seasons of a TV show are written by a room full of people.

R311, OK, let's assume Ethan and Daphne did have sex, and Cam and Harper also had sex, or started to before being interrupted.

Did Ethan "conquer Cameron's wife"? I don't think so. Daphne seduced him. He just passively went along. Yes, he can tell himself he got revenge and equaled the playing field, but in fact Cam still "wins" because he seduced Harper. The seducer has the more powerful alpha role than the seduced.

Cam and Daphne are an alpha couple. They dominate Ethan and Harper from the beginning of the series to the end.

R334, you make a great point. Ethan didn't want to be like Cameron; he just wanted Cameron to stop going after what Ethan has.

[quote] Isn't Japan too uptight for The White Lotus?

That could be the idea?

They just did a tropical island paradise, and a summer of passionate Mediterranean love. I just hope Mike White doesn't go too "Lost in Translation."

[quote] Tanya could've ended her misery by just divorcing Greg and start a new, more independent life, but instead she chose codependency

Tanya wasn't even sure yet Greg WAS cheating on her, given how much denial she was in. She was asking Quentin whether he was having an affair just minutes before she died.

You're unrealistic to expect her to change that quickly.

[quote] They dominate Ethan and Harper from the beginning of the series to the end.

One of the worst takes on this season that I have heard so far. Possible THE worst.

[quote] I'd like Jack to be the one to come back.

What would he be doing though? Banging a bunch of older Japanese businessmen?

@r33

Honey, that gurl sounds gay!

[quote] [R77], how is someone who cheats on their partner to the point of passing off illegitimate children as their partner's a fundamentally good person?

Any child born to a married woman is legally regarded as a "legitimate" child of the marriage unless proven otherwise.

I want "White Lotus, The Musical" on Broadway now!!!!!

[quote] Who wants to guess at what actually happened in the cove with Daphne and Ethan?

I am guessing they did have intercourse and he impregnated her. The revenge Daphne offered Ethan for Cameron's longtime treachery is making Cameron provide for and raise Ethan's child.

That’s gonna be one Meg Tilly lookin’ muthafuckin kid!

R343 Oh come on. This isn't Santa Barbara.

Will Sharpe's body in this. Sheesh, I had no idea!

[quote]Who wants to guess at what actually happened in the cove with Daphne and Ethan?

Meghann Fahy and Theo James, who played married couple Daphne and Cameron, weigh in:

They believe that Cameron and Harper (Aubrey Plaza) did more than kiss, and they say that Daphne and Ethan (Will Sharpe) did everything short of sex when disappearing together on the beach, a result of Cameron and Harper’s tryst.

They also definitively said the pair’s one blonde child is not Theo’s, but is instead the son of Daphne’s trainer.

A friend told me she had read somewhere that Season 3 will be set in a time prior to Season 1. We were both happy because this will allow Tonya to still participate.

Also, reading a bit of this thread above, I believe Jack would have been prime candidate to return to his previous druggy existence. Prob OD’d.

Tanya said at the beginning of Season 2, "I always have an adventure when i stay at the White Lotus," which means she almost certainly stayed at one of their hotels before Maui. So it's perfectly feasible White was laying the groundwork then for a prequel season.

People really can't fathom that the show is moving on. Mike White made the choice to kill off Tanya and move on without her. He is not going do some hamfisted prequel to bring her back.

R347 Curious that these two are doing a new round of press/talkshow availability. Seems a little late & unnecessary to re-up the buzz. Even for awards.

I don’t think Ethan went “all the way” with Daphne. He’s hyped from his fight with Cameron and wants to get even; but he also semi-believes/still trusts Harper. If ever the tryst were revealed, he’d want to be able to honestly tell Harper that he and Daphne didn’t “have sex” - just as she said to him.

I also think Daphne got even with Cameron by seducing Ethan because she suspected Cameron wanted to do the same.

Cameron embraces Ethan during their night with the hookers and gently teases the idea of sex with him the next morning in bed.

The long lunch conversation about threesomes makes it clear Cameron and Daphne have engaged in threesomes before and there’s no indication that the third persons weren’t both men and women. Daphne’s likely noticed whether horn dog husband might just be bi.

If so, and she suspects he’s hot for Ethan, she’s one upped him again.

They were roomies. Ethan's definitely met the mighty schlong in some capacity.

And clearly Cameron is very accustomed to men willingly offering service of all sorts.

R352, the only vindication for a straight man would be fucking her. Anything else is meaningless. You be sure they fucked.

The woman who played Daphne was excellent, she was able to show all the stages of grief just with her eyes both times Ethan and Harper told her Cameron was posible cheating. She was the most interesting straight character. No nomination for her?

The gay Mafia theory was ridiculous, the opera , the decadent parties, the sexy gigolo just to kill her in a boat?

Looking for "investors",a ponzi or trying to sell timeshare seems more logic

Cameron was a total top.

[quote]The only vindication for a straight man would be fucking her. Anything else is meaningless. You be sure they fucked.

Not necessarily R353. I don't think they had full on sex. I could see them masturbating each other, hands down bathing suits or Ethan going down on her.

This gays are STILL trying to murder me!

R357, you're so naive. They fucked. Just accept it.

Whether Daphne and Ethan cheated was purposefully left ambiguous.

I read a great review of WL that said the actors say the lines in a way that leaves things open for interpretation. I know some feel the show is overrated but I love it.

And the man candy in Season 2 was off the charts.

I'd love to have $$ that Cameron wanted for his company; he'd know how to get it from me.

Sexy sluts

Random tangent, but I just learned the Four Seasons is owned primarily by Bill Gates and a Saudi prince.

^^^ Very interesting. So Mike White is a sell out.

Mike might be well cast in the Bill Gates bio-pic.

Mike White could write an interesting dark comedy buddy series about Bill Gates and Jeffrey Epstein.

It

Is

Fiction.

It

Is

Not

Real.

We

Know,

R367

We like to talk about fictional characters as though they were real people. It makes drama more fun, especially soap operatic story lines. What's wrong with you that you don't understand that?

"White Scrotum", now Off Off Off Off Broadway

[quote] We like to talk about fictional characters as though they were real people. It makes drama more fun, especially soap operatic story lines. What's wrong with you that you don't understand that?

No, "we" do not. "We" think you're mentally ill for claiming as much.

Thank you R370.

I AM R367 and am on board with your assessment.

Nobody thinks it’s real so your shitposting has no point. What are you twelve?

Fun to see all the ensemble of TWL actors on stage at the SAG awards. It seems nearly every one of the Italian cast members were also in town for the ceremony, and really thrilled to be there.

While F. Murray gives the acceptance speech, the actor who plays Greg appears to be telling Aubrey Plaza that she needs to adjust the top of her gown.

R373 Did she said Jesus Christ at the end of his speech?

She said it because she was being pushed back and forth by the other actors.

It doesn't look like she was being pushed back and forth. She was pulled by uncle Rico actor in the begging of the speech.

Her snatch stinks!

I would like Ethan and Albie to sit on my face

It's hilarious that Theo James now has a SAG.

This was a funny tweet by a critic reviewing White Lotus.

[quote] I’m reviewing a third thing with Theo James in it this year. I feel cursed because he’s always the worst part of everything he’s in.

I bet that critic is a fattie who'd love to have Theo's body.

R380, that critic is a woman. Able to see past the pretty, unlike some mindless people here.

Why would you want to see past the pretty? People really do work to make life much harder that it is, than it has to be.

Oh I don't know, R382, maybe to assess and see clearly their actual talent or lack thereof and not their looks. But I guess himbos are needed as much in the industry as bimbos.

Daphne sandwich.

Exactly R383.

R381, interesting; alas, it's her opinion and we all have one. That's always been the case, of course. But now with social media everyone is a published critic. They can post on multiple platforms.

Characters in movies who work in magazines and at newspapers always seemed so glamorous. But now, anyone can have a blog and make a movie on their phone.

Super late to the party (I wanted to binge all 7 hours in one day). I loved it.

One of the wicked Eurogays I recognized from "Emily in Paris": frizzy-haired Bruno Gouery. I thought about a mashup of the two shows, with Emily getting totally humiliated at a 5-star resort, and slinking back to America in disgrace.

Henry James would approve of the theme of Americans in Europe getting "played," since he practically invented it.