Four Students found dead near the University of Idaho - Part Two

The cops are totally incompetent. This is their statement on the two surviving roommates. See their comment below.

These are people who may have seen the crime but on the flip side may have committed the crime Aaron Snell, Idaho State Police

Link to Thread 1

In 1997 I was working at a convenience store and one of my regulars was this black guy .We became friends,to the point where Id let him crash at my place while I worked overnights. We had had sex a few times but that part sorta withered on the vine. Not that it wasnt good,but it just sorta faded. One night I was off so we got to a bar and get drunk and have a good time and when we get back to my place he was feeling frisky so we did the deed. As Im laying there asleep,I wake up to this sharp pain in my back and roll over to find him standing over me with a knife.It wasnt until I saw the knife that I realized he had stabbed me .As I start to open my mouth to scream he breaks my nose. I then had the fight of my life .During all that I never screamed ,all I thought about was surviving. I finally threw him off the bed and started screaming and he ran out the door. Never saw him again,and the cops werent able to find him either. Also the shock of him acting that way just didnt compute.Nothing in his behavior in the months I knew him hinted at violence. My point is I could see how these kids,passed out drunk and suddenly awakened by being stabbed didnt make noise. Your too shocked at first to realize what is going on.That few seconds is enough time for the person to stab you quite a few more times. Think about it this way,if they stab you in the throat or cut it,you wont be making noise anyway. My heart goes out to their families,its a horrifying way to die. I almost did had I not been as strong I may well have.Coincidentally,I never slept with or befriended a black guy again. I know its stupid,I know they all arent like that,but its a deep rooted phobia now and itll never go away.

R3 Sorry to hear that and hope you are OK.

Poor Kaylee (2nd from left) was such a cute lil chub.

Reddit says it’s this guy

R6 a little context perhaps? Why do "they" say that?

[quote]Coincidentally,I never slept with or befriended a black guy again.

Racist. Do better.

Is this allegedly the J that Madison and Kaylee were calling numerous times when they got home, R6?

Anyone who is calling this "Jack" guy multiple times at 2am screams "coke dealer" to me. I have done the very same thing with my friends when I was their age. You are drunk, bring the party back home, someone suggests "we should get some coke" and then you call the dealer incessantly until they pick up or pass out. When you are really young, just having fun, you get involved with sketch people, don't see the danger, even befriend dealers slightly so that they give better service.

My friend was saying that the sorority and frat that the girls/boy went to is one of those creme de la creme houses where you have to be hot and popular. Maybe they mean girled somebody? I thought maybe the roomies might have have been dogs with a bone to pick, but they are 2 cute, petite blonds that are just like the victims. There is no way those girls could have done anything.

Killing multiple people by stabbing to death is more intense than just spraying bullets at them. It’s so much more intimate. It takes a real psychotic to do that.

So now the Attic Girls are Basement Girls? I’m so confused.

If it was targeted it appears that the single girls were the target. So why stab the couple, especially a big guy? Unless he intervened. They said ‘some’ of the victims were in bed. Which contracted what was said earlier, that all were most likely sleeping when killed. The guy picked the wrong night to sleep over.

R11 True. It's one thing to cut through flesh, but tendons and gristle? I have a hard time cutting up a watermelon.

I’m team Jack. Bitches call me 10 times after 2:30 AM are gonna get what’s coming to ‘em.

[quote] 'They lived on one of the most iconic streets of being seniors it's kind of a well known place.

Oh yes. The McDonald’s arches. The leaning tower of Pisa. Marilyn Monroe. Mickey Mouse. James Dean. The streets in Moscow, Idaho of being college Seniors. ICONIC.

Jack Showalter is a cutie and a good kid. He would never do this. You can just tell.

By the way, some of the hot takes and speculations and questions in this thread and the last one are INANE. When we know all the details of this case, they will likely turn out to be so mundane. No, it wasn’t one of the girls sleeping in the other bedroom. No, it wasn’t a drug cartel sending a message. No, there is nothing weird about the behavior of anyone involved *except* the killer. You people are dingbats.

R3, that story is horrifying. I’m so sorry that happened to you and glad you survived. Us white people gotta stick together. (KIDDING!!! Don’t ban me!!!)

I’m guessing he was severely mentally ill and had a psychotic break? It doesn’t make sense otherwise. If he’d wanted to rob you, he could’ve just taken your money and gone, maybe.

R17, what would the mundane answer be?

It’s most likely some young man they all knew. Maybe someone on the fringe of their social circle who was rejected in some way.

That’s my guess. What’s yours?

They say it was personal

I always think of Stacey Dash when I hear about Idaho.

It’s common in American homes to make the homely live in the attic, out of the way

I feel sorry for anyone named Jack Showalter.

I thought the victims were in the attic and were known to make noise partying. Agree with who ever said a knife is allegedly one of the most intimate ways to kill someone. Whoever did this had to have some kind hunting experience to go in, my guess is slit their through while they are sleeping and then leave without being noticed. It's not something a drunk impulsive kid would do..or would it? This seems to need a level of skill.

[quote] My friend was saying that the sorority and frat that the girls/boy went to is one of those creme de la creme houses where you have to be hot and popular.

The creme de la creme of the University of Idaho!

How truly glamorous!

The coroner confirmed they were not all killed in their beds.

[quote] The creme de la creme of the University of Idaho!

It's part of the greek system so I think are houses all over the country. My friend went to UVA and their houses were there too. They were the elite greeks.

[quote] It’s common in American homes to make the homely live in the attic, out of the way

Almost spat out my coffee at this.

This is more “Charles Manson”, minus the groupies and media frenzy, than anything else.

Crime is never as complex as we first envision it to be.

The Coroner is going to start doing Runway in his wife’s outfits

[quote] This is more “Charles Manson”, minus the groupies and media frenzy, than anything else. Crime is never as complex as we first envision it to be.

The very Charles Manson case you claim negates that claim. That was much more complex than expected to be.

It kind of has a bit of a "Scream" vibe to it. Young kids, partying in a house, a bloodbath with knife. There is going to be a big twist to this.

They might have been sleeping when the stabbing started but I have no doubt it woke them up.

Has Ryan Murphy bought the story rights yet?

R12 One day you’re on the TOP, then the next day you’re on the BOTTOM!

Carl "Showalter" is the name of the Steve Buscemi (murderer) character in Fargo.

“Senior Street, Moscow, Idaho” is my choice for the name of the Lifetime Movie. I’m assuming Sydney Sweeney will be playing at least one of the blonde girls and her productions company is probably securing the rights as I type.

Jack Showalter looks a bit douchy and rapey to me, but not murdery, he’ll only commit crimes his parents can get him out of.

Omg - so good, R37 and I love your casting of Sydney Sweeney as the lead - she would be perfect. Who would round out the cast?

I'd like to see some enterprising drag queens or John Waters wannabees to make this film with their iPhones.

Do we know the whereabouts of Kam and Bryer?

Depending on who the killer is and why will be the make or break in a theatrical release. Would this need to be an inclusive casting where some of the girls would need to be POC? This is VERY white school and everyone is blond. I am trying to think of who is blond, all American and early 20's. Reese would have been good in this in her prime.

R40 This week to be released on Black Friday and before all the messy facts get in the way.

Elle Fanning?

There isn't time to negotiate for stars. We need Fanny Ellen, the 2am drag queen.

Yes! Sydney Sweeney, Elle Fanning, Taylor Swift and Brandon Flynn playing straight as the boyfriend.

And Jessica Simpson as one of the girls mother.

R46 Sydney Sweeney coincidentally grew up about an hour from where this occurred

For those cringing about being murdered by being violently stabbed to death, it’s not as horrible as you would think. Dr. Bernard Nuland in his National Book Award winning and Pulitzer Prize runner up of book “How We Die,” does case studies of different deaths and breaks down what’s happening in the body and the mind as it happens.

One of the cases he discusses is a famous murder at a street fair in Connecticut when a crazed escaped psychopath from an asylum broke through the crowd with a knife, chose one girl in particular and started stabbing her face and body repeatedly as the crowd looked on horror. There’s a huge flood of endorphins and adrenaline that’s released and you’re basically beyond the point of feeling any pain, you’re so deeply in shock. He mother was able to get to her for the last seconds of her life and noted her look of surprise and tranquility, not of fear or pain. This blog post summarizes some of the chapter and the mother’s statements, but it’s best to read the book and whole chapter for the full explanation.

I became much less terrified of dying in a situation like this after reading this book. By far dying of renal failure is a much, much worse death to experience than being stabbed to death.

R48 Great! She’ll have the regional accent down pat! I see awards gold for her in this ahead!

I think Gonclaves is a POC---her drag queeny-looking sister looks Hispanic.

And who for Esmerelda & Prunella, the attic/basement girls?

Unfortunately, the production company that’s going to jump on this first and beat every one to the punch is Kirk Cameron’s Holier Than Thou network. They will turn it into a morality tale about partying, godless young people out drinking, drugging and sexing and how bad things come to them when this happens. They will work Satanic Panic into this, reviving a huge movement of fear across the country for another decade. They will also work into this that young women shouldn’t be attending college at all, they should be at home, pregnant taking care of the children and waiting for and on their husbands. That college education makes young women uppity and slutty and should be avoided for a more godly and spiritual life. James Vander Beek and his whole family with star as one of the Blonde girl’s grieving families and how their daughter could have been saved if only she had married at 18 after high school graduation and attended church on Sunday and tithed 33% of her family’s earnings.

That's funny, I was taking a young Candace could have been in the cast. She's blond, OK looking, but not quite pretty. I feel like she might have actually been in a made for TV movie way back in the day where she did play a cunty sorority sister and the bullied girl fell off a clock tower or something. It was based on a true story.

The Gold Sisters would have killed at these parts, back in the day! Real life sisters playing best friends who felt like real sisters, that’s a marketing goldmine right there!

Goncalves was almost certainly Basque. There's a huge Basque population in Idaho, and Goncalves is a Basque name.

I have lived in CT all of my 52 years and have never heard of a little girl getting stabbed to death at a fair. What year was this?

I wish the killer is revealed to be one of the sorority sisters who was also gorgeous and blonde, but a total sociopath.

R31, you are correct, & I realized that after I wrote what I wrote.

OK.

I believe this was just one weirdo.

These days, it’s always just one weirdo. People aren’t into committing crimes in large groups any longer.

[quote] My friend was saying that the sorority and frat that the girls/boy went to is one of those creme de la creme houses where you have to be hot and popular.

MARY.

R57 The summer of 1989, Nuland in the book gives her the name of Katie, but her real name was Jessica Short.

Jessica was stabbed 37 times while people looked on in horror before they pulled the guy off. That’s how fast it can happen.

R42 The black kids would have to be from overseas because that way they might not know about Idaho’s reputation ( too many white people, militias, etc. )

R59 Hold my beer…

[quote] So now the Attic Girls are Basement Girls? I’m so confused.

We prefer to call them the "People Under the Stairs."

In the previous thread, someone mentioned it could be a disgruntled neighbor who hated all the noise and drunken partying in the sorority house, and that's actually not a bad theory if the demographics of the neighborhood are mixed. If so, it could be that a middle aged, fugly guy like Dennis Rader (BTK), with power and control issues, killed them out of extreme angry and jealousy, and if one was stabbed much more than the others, I would guess would be a female student he'd been obsessing about (similar to the incel theory.) The military grade knife seems like something an older man with extensive hunting and or military experience would use to kill with. Even though there appears to be no sexual assault, it could be that he gets a thrill from stabbing people.

I mean "extreme anger and jealously."

At least the victims will never know the embarrassment of putting "University of Idaho" on their resumes.

I don't understand how one person could have stabbed 4 people to death.

Every attempted joke here has fallen flat

R69: With a knife they knew how to use.

I'm forever amazed at how much detail the DM can obtain when our press is... do we even have a gutter press, with multiple personal photos and quotes. DM must have a staff of hundreds in the US to run to all our shootings and stabbings etc. We keep journalism alive!

The theory that a neighbor did this because he was tired of the noise… I can’t even.

LOL R53. It was the butler in the bedroom with a carving knife.

Oops I meant LOL R73

The fact that for the first 24 hours, or maybe longer, they left the impression that it might have been a drug/fentanyl overdose when there was blood over was a lie. No one was alarmed or anyone who saw something probably paid it no mind.

I was attacked once and by the time I managed to pry the guy's hand off of my mouth, I tried to yell but no sound came out. Yes, shock will do that.

How can you be sure that no sound came out if you were in shock?

We have THE WRONG JACK:

There were seven unanswered phone calls made from the phone of one of the victims, Ms. Goncalves, to her recent boyfriend in the early morning hours on Sunday, according to her older sister, Alivea Goncalves, based on phone logs she was able to download from the phone provider.

The first call to the boyfriend, Jack DuCoeur, was at 2:26 a.m., and there were six more over the next 26 minutes, with the final one at 2:52, Ms. Goncalves said. She said Mr. DuCoeur, also a student at the university, missed them because he was sleeping, and that her sister’s phone account did not show any other calls.

[quote]The theory that a neighbor did this because he was tired of the noise… I can’t even.

I think it could be a stalker or neighbor who is an older guy who was obsessed with one or both of the girls, perhaps planned to sexually assault and kill them, but didn't know that the couple was staying there that night, and killed them all in a fit of rage. So many neighborhood-watch types turn out to be psychopaths. The noise and partying could have been what initiated his surveillance and stalking of the students, and it turned into an obsession. Theoretically!

“ Ms. Goncalves said Mr. DuCoeur had been a childhood friend of her sister’s and that they had been dating for years until recently, when they decided to take an amicable break. Ms. Goncalves said she and her family “stand behind Jack 100 percent and know he absolutely had nothing to do with this at all.”

Bill Thompson, the top prosecutor in Latah County, said investigators were looking at cellphone tower data and social media information to try to determine who was in the immediate area at the time of the killings.”

Was she calling Jack because she was afraid and heard an intruder in the house? What messages did she leave?

R78, I meant the terror I was feeling, not the physical definition of shock. Better?

Messages? How 20th century.

Two female Idaho students among four killed phoned mystery man called 'Jack' ten times minutes before they were slaughtered - as detective reveals one had a stalker and two housemates locked themselves in rooms due to 'noisy party'

Poor Jack. If I were him, I would feel so bad. She probably called him for help.

I think it was the landlord, who found out the male tenant’s claim that he was gay to allow him to live in a house full of girls was a ruse. Already angry from his caftan-wearing wife nagging him for sex, he just snapped and went over there and stabbed them all.

No. If she were calling him for help she would have called 911. She was calling to offer some leftover spaghetti carbonara.

R87 Yeah it was a Jack living with three Crissys.

The two Janets slept in the attic.

If she called Jack so many times like that just before the murder happened it gives credence to the theory it was someone they or most of them knew.

If it was a stranger or someone they just met that evening who started causing real scary trouble, she more likely would have called 911.

Someone they all have known in their lives, someone who’s weird or sketchy who’s acting up… it is more likely to have them reach out to mutual friends in that situation. “Oh my god so-and-so is over here acting psycho and starting fights again, can you come over here, or what should we do?”

While the Threes Company theory is amusing, the dude and his GF DID NOT LIVE THERE. Their overnight stay probably threw a wrench in the plans of some sexual predator who was stalking the sorority twins.

jfc, that reddit sub is overrun with maga morons who have been rejected by websleuths. jack s. was publicly cleared yesterday afternoon but these psychopaths will not listen to reason if it contradicts their fantasy scenario.

You true crime nuts are fucking nuts and don't deserve internet access.

My bet is she was drunkenly calling her ex and it had nothing to do with the murder. I have been guilty of this as a young person.

Is Jack a hottie? Is he a dreamboat like Chris Watts or Ted Bundy? How disappointed the crime Fraus will be if it turns out to be some middle-aged, balding fug with a pedo mustache like John Wayne Gacy or Bridge Guy.

R92 can’t even keep track of the Jacks.

Since they weren’t all in their beds, it’s very possible one of the victims let the murderer in. I can’t believe there was not one single camera in the area that caught the person.

^ this is not China, where every home has 4K/HD cameras installed everywhere

r95 is a horrible person targeting people who've experienced a horrific tragedy for online harassment.

Gonçalves is a very common portuguese surname.

I'm certain the children of you delusional stalker fraus have gone low-contact due to your lack of empathy and common sense.

I hope the one girl wasn't trying to call her boyfriend, over and over, for help. I don't understand why people don't just call 911. Like those 2 young women who went to a club and then to a house party and then got killed (Oakland, CA, IIRC). They had their phones. Instead of dialing 911, they're texting ... each other.

[quote]Since they weren’t all in their beds, it’s very possible one of the victims let the murderer in. I can’t believe there was not one single camera in the area that caught the person.

The latest report is that they all were asleep in their beds although they had defensive wounds, meaning they woke up during the attacks.

The stories keep changing, it's hard to know what to believe. Kaylee's sister says that she tracked down the Uber driver, but yesterday it was reported that they were driven home in a private car and the police were looking for the driver.

Aren’t Ubers by their nature private cars?

In their beds...SMACK!....NOT in their beds!...SMACK...In their beds, not in their beds, my sister, my daughter, my sister, my daughter! My sister AND My Daughter!!!

[quote] Well, the phone calls can only be about/mean one thing, right?

Which thing would that be?

^I'm guessing it's drugs, personally...

Has the "demon-possessed doll from an exotic country that was given to one of the girls as a present from her eccentric, globe-trotting uncle" theory been eliminated yet?

[quote] There were seven unanswered phone calls made from the phone of one of the victims, Ms. Goncalves, to her recent boyfriend in the early morning hours on Sunday, according to her older sister, Alivea Goncalves, based on phone logs she was able to download from the phone provider. The first call to the boyfriend, Jack DuCoeur, was at 2:26 a.m.,

I hate to harp on this, but the media and law enforcement and everyone else has GOT to stop referring to anything past midnight as “the early morning hours.” Just because the calendar date flips at midnight doesn’t mean it’s “morning”. Morning is when the sun comes up. “Early morning hours” would be dawn, and just after. If 12:01 midnight is “early morning,” that would mean during the summer months when it doesn’t get dark until 9pm, “night” only lasts for 3 hours or less. Which is ridiculous. Nighttime is not morning.

Do I have to run for Congress on this issue? Because I’ll do it.

how old are these girls? they went to bars. with fake IDs?

R102, that was inaccurate.

The repeated phone calls at 2:00 a.m. or whatever, unless it's a friend, then it's a drug dealer. Either way, it's kind of uncool to call someone repeatedly like that in a non-emergency situation. Maybe it was a cocaine emergency.

Wasn’t it her *boyfriend* that she was calling at 2:30am?

Two of the four slain University of Idaho students called a mystery man 10 times shortly before their murder, according to the sister of one of the victims.

Kaylee Goncalves made the calls beginning at around 2:30 a.m. on Nov. 13, her sister Alivea told Inside Edition Friday.

“Kaylee calls [the man] six times between 2:26 a.m. and 2:44 a.m…. then Kaylee makes a final call to him at 2:52 a.m.,” Alivea said.

was it a booty call?

Roommate Madison Mogen called the same mystery man three times, from 2:44 to 2:52, Alivea said.

The Post redacted the name of the man as recited to the outlet, as he had not been named as a suspect by law enforcement authorities.

Goncalves, 21; Mogen, 21; Xana Kernodle, 20; and Kernodle’s boyfriend Ethan Chapin, 20, were found slain at the house they shared in Moscow, Idaho.

KERNOODLE.

R98, WTF?

Some of these Sorority Row Sluts are walking around with loaded glocks down their pink panties and switchblades in their push-up bras

I have a theory on this. I think it's possible the killer was unknown to the victims. Someone who has probably had a lot of rejection by women but not necessarily by these women specifically. Anyone could have followed them on their public social media pages and fixated on one of the girls (or all of the girls) and decided they represented all the women who rejected them previously. It's a danger of over exposing one's life on Instagram that unfortunately many young women don't think of.

My other thought is that the killer could be older than them (not college age). This goes with the theory that methods of serial killers change over time. Today an angry young man with homicidal impulses might unleash gunfire because they can cause a lot of damage quickly. This method of breaking in and stabbing is an older method that is much more difficult now due to Ring cameras and modern forensics. You can't kill as many people this way before being caught. So maybe the killer is older than early 20s.

The killer made it out of the house without leaving any major clues about their identity or being spotted by anyone which implies at least a little savvy, or at least more savvy than a college kid would have.

My guess is that it's man in his 30s or early 40s who didn't truly know any of them but had been keenly observing them. And very angry with pretty young women in general (killing the guy was just incidental, he wasn't supposed to be there).

Where were the @#$%^! cameras? Any cameras? Thus is 2022 ya know..cameras on homes, cameras outside homes, cameras on stop lights, cameras on spaghetti trucks, cameras in people's pants, cameras on fences, cameras on cell phones in every hand. Something is hidden here.

[quote] [R95] is a horrible person targeting people who've experienced a horrific tragedy for online harassment.

Mary!!!

yes, I agree. at that hour, it's gotta be drugs.

R98, wtf?

r111, they were 21

R126 OK. thanks for the info. so they are seniors? what were their majors?

No question, a Satanic Pedo Ring was behind this. They are all over Idaho.

You mean Democrats?

R121, that’s one of the more sensible theories proposed in these threads.

Too rude and too soon -- but I think Jack might have dodged a bullet (her sister thought they'd get back together) - from the NYT article at R79:

"She also said that the number of calls was not unusual: Kaylee Goncalves would frequently call people until they picked up, even to ask a mundane question like what she should have for breakfast, her sister said."

[quote] "She also said that the number of calls was not unusual: Kaylee Goncalves would frequently call people until they picked up, even to ask a mundane question like what she should have for breakfast, her sister said."

No wonder she was murdered.

"Idaho."

"No, she da ho."

""She also said that the number of calls was not unusual: Kaylee Goncalves would frequently call people until they picked up, even to ask a mundane question like what she should have for breakfast, her sister said.""

So, she sort deserved it.

It was the Soft Butch Sous Chef. She escaped from prison!

It’s not unusual for a large university to try to control the narrative when students die (or are sexually assaulted, etc) It’s getting better, because parents demand it, but I’d imagine a school like U of Idaho might still be of the older ilk. It could be why the narrative around this case is such a mess.

Stay safe kids.

R88 You know there was no Spaghetti Carbonara left over.

I think it may have been Bad Art Friend.

Nobody carries a Ka-Bar style knife if they don't intend to cut something to death. It is serious armed forces hardware.

[quote]I feel sorry for anyone named Jack Showalter.

What does that even mean? What's your surname? Johnson? Smith?

When I was in college several girls were raped on or near the campus and the school did not publicize it nor did they inform parents. Anything negative was covered up.

“I'm only trying to say that Moscow is a college town. We need college dollars. Now, if the people can't attend university here, they'll be glad to attend somewhere else...”

Why does the sister keep blabbing? She’s gone on talk shows and talked to the press several times. What’s her deal?

[quote] Why does the sister keep blabbing? She’s gone on talk shows and talked to the press several times. What’s her deal?

She's the murderer, don't you know?

Lol.. how fucked up would that be?

Shews a fucking attention whore R143. I saw her on some interview where she was stating what her family would find acceptable and I thought "what a cunt".

[quote] She's a fucking attention whore R143. I saw her on some interview where she was stating what her family would find acceptable and I thought "what a cunt".

Between her sister Kaylee calling people 10 times in a half hour, just to ask them what she should have for dinner, and her sister appearing on every network news broadcast she can book, I'm starting to see a motive for the murder.

All the families except one has talked. The guys parents were interviewed within 24 hours. I’d be sedated if I was in their shoes. I always find that and people posting ASAP on social media inappropriate. Call me old fashioned.

Sometimes "babbling" is a good idea, it brings attention to the case and can lead to people coming forward with tips

It will be a 20 year-old Cambodian male who has been in the house before but was only barely known by the victims.

They ran into my knife. They ran into my knife TEN TIMES. Each.

The other 2 roomates were locked in their bedroom? Strange.

I'm not a criminology expert, or even a reddit citizen Detective Frau, but I do know one thing for sure.

If 50 FBI have been assigned to this case, that's a week cold, it couldn't have been some 20 year old frat Boi. The ones I have run across, can barely tie their own shoelaces, much less commit FOUR brutal murders with a Rambo knife, and not get caught immediately.

The tint discrepancies in the media are bothersome. The phone calls to the boyfriend? The other girl (Maddie) called him as well, a few times. Why? Was it because Kaylee thought she wouldn't answer her calls, and got her friend to call him.

Also, did they really take an uber home from the food truck, or was it a private car? I've read both. OR...? Was it someone masquerading as an Uber driver? That's happened to College girls, with deadly results.

Confounding.

Picture of Jack? The link above is no good any more

Was it a crazy Mormon?

I've seen the photo of the Hoodie boy, hanging at the food truck. This kid couldn't hold up an 8 year old Lemonade stand... much less pull a Manson Family caper single-handedly.

Ugh. *8 year-old kid's Lemonade stand

The butler did it

One thing, that's pretty clear.. is, that the killings were centered on the one blonde girl, and/or her blonde friend, and the other girl and her beefy boyfriend, were collateral damage??

Could the two girls have gotten a ride home from someone they just met that night? If so, perhaps he was acting weird and that's the reason the two were calling the ex-boyfriend, hoping he might scare off the newly met nuisance.

with all those theories throwing around, it could just be a simple breaking and entering (or burglary) gone horribly wrong!

So are we back to thinking the ugly Attic Girls did it?

I didn’t get a chance to read all the way through but I will. But I just keep thinking about the fact that the 4 blondes are very similar in face and for the most part, in size. Whoever is calling Kaylee chubby needs their eyes examined. I am a girl and Kaylee has the kind of body girls envy and straight guys love. Anyway, here is my theory. It was late, dark and the culprit himself may have been high. If he wanted to kill one (or more) of the blondes, and there were 4 blondes all together, he would have had to have known in which beds/rooms his target blonde/s slept. And would have had to make sure that he got the right one/s.

But, if he was just after the brunette girl, her bf, or them as a couple - it would be easier and quicker. Idk if that makes sense the way it does in my head.

I am assuming this was premeditated. So, the plan I would think, would be to get in and out quickly. So they either knew the exact layout, or followed their victim/s to see where they went. If so, they would possibly have been surprised by the BF being there, since he didn’t live there.

I’m high, so I hope that makes sense.

My other theory is based on the book Blue Angel. It was a faculty member of the school who got involved with one of the students and was in danger of being exposed. So he just intended to kill 1, but had to kill 4 (I haven’t figured out that part yet.) Maybe it was the brunette, and she confessed to her bf and he blackmailed the faculty member? And the faculty person didn’t see the 2 blondes enter the home before the couple?

Just spinnin’ my wheels. Anyway it was a great book, and the movie with Stanley Tucci was excellent.

R39 Idk but I’d cast Billie Eyelash and Olivia Rodrigo as the rival sorority goth hater chicks.

Some of the websleuth fraus think it was a cult, lol. It's the 80s Satanic Panic all over again!

It means, r140, that people with that name are going to be harassed on social media.

The whole of DL is secretly hoping the killer is a tranny!

It's a transsexual leftist illegal alien!!!

from NYT article R79

“Bill Thompson, the top prosecutor in Latah County, said investigators were looking at cellphone tower data and social media information to try to determine who was in the immediate area at the time of the killings.”

This is why forums and websleuths can be helpful. They are doing the same thing they’ve got FBI people doing. Many hands make for a lighter load, or whatever that saying is.

I feel like social media is going to crack the case. An instagram photo, or a tik tok video…and someone who didn’t think they were on camera is going to be spotted.

I have faith in the FBI on this case for some reason I think I’ve been brainwashed by Hotch on Criminal Minds..

R110, you're going to have to stop harping on "early morning hours". While colloquially people use "morning" to mean "from sunrise" or "when I get up and my day starts", the more rigorous definition is "between midnight and noon."

R110 I’ll vote for you!!! I hate that too. Especially with a case like this, it is extremely confusing.

Morning is defined as the period between sunrise and noon. This time of year, early morning would be 6-8am I presume. Not 2:30am.

Btw, what if the phone calls to the ex-bf were part of the attack? I.E., the killer wanted the boyfriend to hear Kaylee being killed or have Kaylee say something specific to the bf? Or if the killer wanted to talk to the bf?

I said this in the first thread and I will say it here. It’s some incel who hates women that he can’t have. It’s amazing the damage these dudes can do if they go fully off the rails and start planning revenge against every female who symbolically represents the rejection they feel. Sorority girls like the ones killed are known as “Stacy’s”

R121 somewhat described an incel (Involuntary Celibate) without knowing it.

You’d think there would at least be bloody shoe prints left behind.

There was some guy interviewed I think by the daily mail the other day (don’t ask me to link it I don’t feel like looking for it) and he mentioned that the back of the house is up against a hill and some forested area starts too that he described as ‘pretty remote’. That maybe would be why this killer made an easy escape without people seeing - well that and the fact that most of the campus would be either passed out drunk, asleep, or stoned by 4am. Hopefully the keystone cops combed through the area he referred to in the article.

Any news about the dog? Is he alive and well?

r164 I hope it's a satanic cult now that you put that thought in my head.

R174 But none of those girls were virgins?

This story will turn into a University of Idaho Urban Legend one day.

Of course the Satanic cult rumors will spread, even though more Lutherans have committed mass murder that Satanists. For instance, John List, Dennis Rader, and Ed Gein. What is it about the Lutherans?

[quote] Police: 911 call in University of Idaho killings came from one of roommates’ cellphones

One week after the fatal stabbings of four University of Idaho students, the Moscow Police Department will hold its second press conference Sunday, police said, and law enforcement also released a few new details on Saturday night.

Most notably, police cleared another person while investigating the homicides, and also indicated that the 911 call came from inside the residence from one of the two surviving roommates’ cellphones.

The four victims in the early Sunday, Nov. 13, slayings were U of I seniors Madison Mogen, 21, of Coeur d’Alene, and Kaylee Goncalves, 21, of Rathdrum; junior Xana Kernodle, 20, of Post Falls; and freshman Ethan Chapin, 20, of Mount Vernon, Washington.

Moscow police said in a Facebook post Saturday that detectives had investigated the ride-share driver who dropped off Mogen and Goncalves just before 2 a.m. last Sunday and “do not believe he is involved in this crime.”

Police also indicated that the victims’ bodies were found on the second and third floors of the six-bedroom home, and confirmed information from one of Goncalves’ sisters about phone calls from Mogen and Kaylee Goncalves after 2 a.m. to a male friend.

Police said that information is “part of the ongoing investigation.”

This week police had said the two surviving roommates were not involved in the crime. Saturday’s news release said they had been out in Moscow separately on Saturday night, Nov. 12, and returned home by about 1 a.m. Nov. 13. They then slept late, authorities said.

Police said they are seeking more surveillance from homes and businesses “within the geographical area” of West Taylor Avenue (north boundary), West Palouse River Driver (south), U.S. 95-2700 block (east) and Arboretum and Botanical Garden (west). The target time is 3 a.m. to 6 a.m. Nov. 13.

The news conference Sunday will be at 3 p.m. Pacific time in the Alumni Lounge of ICCU Arena on the University of Idaho campus. The first media conference police held after the killings didn’t come till Wednesday and was held at a much smaller venue where reporters had to be turned away.

[quote] Why does the sister keep blabbing? She’s gone on talk shows and talked to the press several times. What’s her deal?

Many true crime stories these days have a loudmouth attention-seeker who makes lots of appearances on social media or mainstream media. They are somehow an “insider”/close to the victim and will take to any media to spout off as an expert. Sometimes they seem guilty, but they’re usually just attention whores who grab the spotlight delightedly.

We saw this recently in the Debbie Collier case where the troubled drug addict daughter couldn’t keep quiet. She didn’t kill her mother, but people thought she was acting strangely. People got into big arguments about it. Very typical now.

Do we know anything about Ethan’s gap years period before starting college? Anything nefarious like surfing and drug running in Thailand that might have come back to haunt him?

A chance to be a celebrity - perhaps they realize it's their only chance to ever get that 15 minutes of fame. I always notice if the grieving family member has a lot of makeup on. In the throes of true grief and misery, why would anybody be applying eye shadow and fake eyelashes.

But anyway, most people rationalize things that would otherwise sound or feel bad, even to them. So publicizing this case might make those stupid cops snap to it and quit acting like such morons - realize they need real professionals (like calling in the FBI) - the pressure of everybody talking about it would put an extra push even on the experienced FBI, who have had a rough few years, reputation wise, so with publicity, they're even more likely to put all the resources into this case - while slacking on others that the world isn't focused on.

Nevertheless, you could do all that without the makeup - or the obvious plays for attention.

How did the two unharmed other room mates sleep through this attack?

This case is a mess.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

^^^ “To shocked to scream before being killed.” I think we have our movie/docuseries title “To Shocked to Scream!”

"I said this in the first thread and I will say it here. It’s some incel who hates women that he can’t have."

I sort of disagree, I don't think this was the act of a young and dysfunctional "incel", I think this was the work of some older guy with a lot of hunting experience, possibly ex-military, possibly with ties to some of the anti-government armed groups you find in Idaho. I'm assuming the hunting and mililtary experience, because the killer killed quickly, efficiently, and without remorse, something a young incel who'd lived his live on a computer screen would fuck up.

If they ever find the killer, I bet you'll find he was watching the house with night-vision hunting equipment, possibly from the woods behind the house, which might be how he knew who slept in which room, and that yes, IMHO he was obsessed with one or more of the blonde girls. So look for a local hunter who likes to kill with something other than guns, like a bow-hunter, and look for one with a lot of accusations of domestic violence in his past.

Would Kaylee have survived survived is she had her sister’s name of Alivea?

[quote] “Bill Thompson, the top prosecutor in Latah County, said investigators were looking at cellphone tower data and social media information to try to determine who was in the immediate area at the time of the killings.”

R168 actually this is implying they might try to get a geo fence warrant, it's very controversial also it's not easy to get a judge to sign. Geo fence warrant, In short, is to ask cell phone carriers and tech company to submit all mobile device data in the vicinity regardless of whether the person(s) have a connection to the case or not, if your cellphone, fitness tracker, GPS devices...were nearby at the time, your ID is submitted to the police.

"If 50 FBI have been assigned to this case, that's a week cold..."

Is this true, 50 agents? Isn't that number awfully high, and doesn't the FBI usually consider that local killings are in the jurisdiction of the local police?

IF the number is true, it makes me wonder if the FBI suspects that some white supremacist or "militia" assholes are involved, because the FBI absolutely does have jurisdiction over domestic terrorist organizations. Not that I think that the Proud Boys or their ilk took out the girls, it'd be more likely that a member killed them because he's a monster who'd kill a pretty girl for refusing to fuck him, and that his fellow domestic terrorists are protecting him...

I posted this in the last thread but I'll repeat post since it addresses your question R189

KREM 2 News at 6pm (a local affiliate) did a 7 minute update. LE put out a press release. The coroner says all the victims were "most likely" asleep when the attack occurred; each had multiple stab wounds, including defensive wounds. No sign of sexual assault. They were not gagged and tied. They do not believe the surviving roomates or the guy at the food truck were involved. They have no suspect. Nearly 500 tips since the LE press conference are being processed, investigated, and cleared. 38 people who may have info have been interviewed. They're going to businesses to see who might have bought a switchblade knife. 46 FBI investigators are involved.

* oh and a correction - I misunderstood the reporter who said "fixed blade" instead of "switchblade"

well if there is still no lead or clue, then I do think they will use geo fence warranty, which is usually very helpful to narrow down the potential suspect pool.

^ warrant

R192, all a person needs to do to avoid the app search warrant (or whatever you call it), is to leave the cell phone at home. Which IMHO makes it of limited utility, surely someone setting out to commit a premeditated crime wouldn't be stupid enough to bring his phone along?

Well, maybe not, the place is full of people who think that cell phone towers give you cancer, and who have no fucking clue that their phones are tracking their movements.

[quote]surely someone setting out to commit a premeditated crime wouldn't be stupid enough to bring his phone along?

Not applicable.

“Well, maybe not, the place is full of people who think that cell phone towers give you cancer, and who have no fucking clue that their phones are tracking their movements.”

This is the kind of smug, delusional take you’d expect from a WFHmer in Hell’s Kitchen, but for the rest of the country who have to commute to work, the vast majority of smart phones give notifications or how long their commute to work or other weekly assignments is, whether you want them or not.

Just because people live in Idaho doesn’t mean that they’re too stupid to move to the coasts and can’t figure out what basic Location Services are in their phones. I’d gather they’d be more familiar with them if they use GPS regularly in their cars or trucks.

Poor R196. Can't figure out how to quote properly. Sad, really.

[quote] How did the two unharmed other room mates sleep through this attack?

They were fast asleep in each others' arms, with the door locked.

It's almost certainly 50 regional FBI agents, so 46 isn't all that much. Probably 2/3rds of them are office and/or lab workers and not in the field.

[quote]The phone calls to the boyfriend? The other girl (Maddie) called him as well, a few times. Why? Was it because Kaylee thought she wouldn't answer her calls, and got her friend to call him.

Yeah, obviously, she thought he was screening her calls so she got her friend to call, or grabbed her friend's phone and called from it. Standard college kid behavior.

[quote]Also, did they really take an uber home from the food truck, or was it a private car?

Private person, they've been interviewed by police and cleared.

The screen capture of the news article at r200 also mentions that the 911 phone call was made from inside the house for an unconscious person, on one of the victims' cell phones.

It does not say that.

It does. What's your problem?

Do you mean that "roommates' cell phone" might mean surviving roommate? If so, sure, it's possible. I wish they'd been more clear; they refer to them as "surviving roommate" elsewhere but not in that paragraph, unfortunately.

^^^ In the above, I think “roommate’s phones” refers one to the living roommates, that it didn’t come from a landline. The boyfriend told her he saw from the outside window someone unresponsive, she had justification to then call the police that someone needed help, but they were already long dead.

There was no need to use "surviving" a second time in the space of three sentences. There were roommates. There were victims. If the call had come from one of the victims' phones, they would have said just that.

Ethan's mother has said that "a friend who does not live in the house discovered the victims," which is why my first response to that news update is to wonder just what exactly they mean when they say a call came in on a roommates' phone.

Friend (possibly one of the surviving roommates' boyfriends) discovered them then texted the roommate who then called 911? That seems weird but anything is possible, I suppose.

R186 Incels do get older you know.

[Quote]Depending on who the killer is and why will be the make or break in a theatrical release. Would this need to be an inclusive casting where some of the girls would need to be POC? This is VERY white school and everyone is blond. I am trying to think of who is blond, all American and early 20's.

My daughter is blond and in her early 20s! But she earned this role by being white and beautiful, not because she's my daughter.

Great American Family is pleased to announce that filming for "Full House: Silent Night" is underway.

Starring:

•Natasha and Lev Bure and Olivia Jade Gianulli as the three sorority girls, and Max Bure as the chunky legged boyfriend.

•Candace Cameron Bure as Saint Karen, an angel sent to pray over the bleeding house and escort the deceased students to Heaven.

• Dave Coulier as the bumbling Moscow sherriff.

•Andrea Barber as a hardened FBI agent.

•Jodie Sweetin as a wild sorority sister.

•John Stamos as a pervy college professor who is the main suspect.

•The Olsen Twins as the fugly Attic Girls who turn out to be the killers. They already despised their housemates due to their tacky clothing, and were triggered to the point of killing when they arrived home with fatty carbonara.

Wow this thread sucks

The Olsen Twins are almost 40.

How did they get to be called "attic girls" when they were the ones on the first floor?

R213 Because their names are Anne and Margot and they were in hiding.

Some article mentioned residents talking about how a pet dog was recently skinned. There could be a connection and this was the work of a psychopath. They usually start out mutilating animals.

R215 That’s quite the rapid escalation!

Psychopathic Killer Handbook 101 -

Day 1: Kill animal and skin it.

Day 2: Stab to death college students

Day 3: ?

This is the story about the poor dog.

But what of the dog who lived with the Slaughtered 4? Did the killer take it?

Annex Girls is what we called our band in college.

R180, if Ethan is Mormon, he might have gone on a mission. Nothing nefarious.

So very odd that the call came from one of the roommates (AG's) phone. They heard it going down. They called their boyfriend to come investigate because??? Ok they were to scared to peek out their bedroom doors. Same phone calls 911 to say unconcious person in house? No blood was seen? Really? How was the rivers of blood missed and the person just merely 'unconcious'?

"The phone calls to the boyfriend? The other girl (Maddie) called him as well, a few times. Why? Was it because Kaylee thought she wouldn't answer her calls, and got her friend to call him."

Yes, this - a tactic as old as time (or at least the telephone.) Kaylee thought BF was ignoring her (because she was known as a compulsive caller) and that he would pick up for Maddie.

I'm late to this so apologize but who, at this point, do you think did this? Someone known to one or more of the victims, with the rest collateral or some rando? It's quite amazing to me four people can be stabbed to death and nobody's on the hook for it after a week or whatever it's been, which is the basis for my late interest. You guys go forensic on this stuff so thought I'd ask. Thx.

The 911 call was about 8 hours after the murders. The two girls supposedly called someone (a boyfriend) that night because they heard something, but they still fell asleep, so they obviously weren't that worried. Later, someone came over -- and we don't know who it was, but Ethan's mom says it was a friend who didn't live at the house -- saw the bodies, and either had the surviving roommates call 911, or used their phone to call.

[quote][R110], you're going to have to stop harping on "early morning hours". While colloquially people use "morning" to mean "from sunrise" or "when I get up and my day starts", the more rigorous definition is "between midnight and noon."

So what the definition for “early evening” or “evening” or “nighttime” is “between noon and midnight”?

And one more question: two people slept through it?

*So the definition for…

Ugh, sorry for the typo, it’s been a long day (9:34 am now) and I’m ready for bedtime (any time after 12 noon).

Somewhere around here is a photo of the house, it's basically split in half, with one half being a first and second floor, and the other half being the second and third floor. The two halves are not right next to each other either, but offset. It's plausible that someone on the far bottom "left" side of the house wouldn't hear anything on the "right" side of the house unless it was directly above them, and maybe not even then.

I’m afraid it’s now been established that the Attic Girls were on the first floor. First Floor Girls just doesn’t work, dammit.

Wait, who was calling a guy’s cell phone in the middle of the night? I thought it was the surviving roommates but further upthread, it was two of the victims?

[quote]Who do you think did this?

Small, foreign faction.

I think it was the dog-flayer.

R230 Then Annex Girls is what it should be, it works for the first floor and retains the AG initials.

Two of the victims were calling a guy in the middle of the night.

One of the two surviving roommates may have called a boyfriend to come check on the noise in the middle of the night, but we're not sure, and if she did call him, he didn't come over and the two surviving roommates just fell asleep anyway.

But it’s not an annex.

They're staying tight lipped on this, but I really wish they'd share the reasons why they jumped the gun in the beginning and said no worry to the community and that it was a crime of passion. Who did they assume it was in the beginning? What make them change messaging .

I shall call them The Sleeping Beauties.

I’m guessing International student. Because no matter how bumbling the local police are (pretty fucking bumbling, seems like), any weirdo with any connection to any of the victims would have been identified by now. And I doubt this massacre was committed by a criminal mastermind who would know how to avoid leaving any physical evidence and acquire an untraceable weapon without anyone else having any knowledge of it whatsoever.

A foreign student might be able to go completely under the radar and not interact with the more socially integrated foreign students or American students. Especially if there was a language barrier. It’s an Asian guy.

How did two people sleep through four people being brutally murdered?

Just kidding. On the subreddit, someone wrote that they “read somewhere” that the FBI thinks the Moscow murders were done by the same guy in a black conversion van (whatever that is) who roams the Midwest. He also did the Piedmont Park and some Minneapolis murder.

And that comment got seven upvotes.

Regarding the use of the word “unconscious”… I think that first responders use “unresponsive” or “unconscious” until the person is declared legally dead by an authority. Even if the person is obviously dead.

R240 are you serious? Wow. I bet he did the smiley face killings too.

R236 The definition of annex is “append or add an extra or subordinate part.” The pictures I’ve seen of the building definitely look like that first floor part jutting out was added after the fact, it doesn’t look like an original part of the building. And we already know the blonde girls saw the AG girls as subordinate to them.

I was thinking about the Cheshire CT murders. A couple of criminals spotted the mom and young daughter at a supermarket and followed them home. They wanted to rob them, but one of them was interested in the young daughter. They went back later that night and committed a home invasion which, according to them, went awry. This could be a case where some random(s) just followed them and things didn’t go exactly as planned and killed them.

Oh yeah R244, and speaking of twatty websleuth/reddit fraus, many accused Dr. Petit of being in on it since he survived and then remarried.

You think they ADDED the first floor?

The two girls who were clubbing that night got a lift home from two strangers. Perhaps they are involved.

First floor massacre makes far more sense than attic attack. It explains why 2 other room mates upstairs could sleep thru this mess.

Three years after I graduated, there was a double execution-style murder in an apartment across the street from my alma mater. A boy and his girlfriend were both blindfolded and shot in the back of the head. I knew the man who ran the campus law enforcement and was shocked at his description of the pressure he received from the university to play the murders down. To this day they have not been solved and the city and school have forgotten about it.

[quote]The definition of annex is “append or add an extra or subordinate part.”

Are you the same person who said that the “more rigorous” (?) definition of ‘morning’ is “any time between midnight and noon”?

Terrible subject for a chuckle, but thanks r246.

Could the Annex Troll be any more tiresome?

I am relieved that FOX News has hired Mark Fuhrman as their commentator on this tragedy. No cop should be canceled forever for using the word, "ni****!"

I think it was the roommates who allegedly slept thru the whole thing! Eight hours is a lot of time to get rid of evidence and clean up.

What's with the two 'sleeping' roommates? None of the story makes sense. So they peeked out of their bedroom and saw someone unconscious and called 911?? Did they HATE their roommates that they wouldn't go and look and offer to help??? Or were they scared that the killer was still in the house? And if a killer is in the house (you suspect) you don't go back to sleep. THS MAKES NO SENSE. So it's no big deal that someone is unconscious in our apartment so i'm going back to sleep OR i'm baracading in my room because my roomates are being slaughtered but i'm only calling my boyfriend and going back to sleep???

R254 They were probably drunk or stoned. If I thought my roommates were being slaughtered I wouldn't leave my room either unless I had a gun. I would however call 911.

Or if her boyfriend came over at noon and saw the 'unconscious' on the floor (but no mention of the blood??) and calls her and tell her, WHAT? 'Looked in the window and saw someone unconscious, no need to get out of bed.' No way! Any decent human would get out of thier room and check on their roommates.

R254 you’re confusing all the details of the case. Go read a news article about it.

Believe me, read the articles. Their either leaving a huge swath of information out or somethings up with the 'sleeping beauties' and the boyfriend. They did not behave as an actual human being would behave.

This is the back of the house, where you see two stories, the front has three stories. We know the dead were in the area of the 2nd and 3rd floors, so towards the front. So, this section on the back has to be the add on, it was annexed to the house, and that’s where the AG girls were. First floor, or interpreted as “basement” because it was the lowest area right off the parking from the back.

From the front street you probably enter on what is the second floor, but looking at it from the front it looks to be the first floor. I think that’s where all the confusion is coming from. The AG’s boyfriend probably looked in from the street facing front door and saw someone, called their name, got spooked when they didn’t respond and there was no response, told the AG’s girlfriend who called 911 and reported someone as being unconscious. The AG space on the first floor might even be a mother in law type situation and almost a free standing apartment/bedroom of its own.

That’s my take.

You hear something around 3-4 am. Something disturbing enough that you call someone for help (but not scary enough to call 911 and get REAL help). You barricade your door waiting for you boyfriend to come but he doesn't. So you go to sleep. That's red flag weird.

You get a call from boyfriend around noon saying he peek thru the window (or maybe walked in a few steps) and saw someone unconscious. But he didn't see ANY blood. You STLL don't run out of your room to check??? No way this happened

A few of you need to shop at TJ's or visit a Starbucks. There you will come to know that an average college student is almost completely devoid of observational skills.

Doesn't surprise me in the least that the boyfriend took no notice of blood.

"You barricade your door waiting for you boyfriend to come but he doesn't. So you go to sleep. That's red flag weird."

Only if you're sober.

She was disturbed enough to call her boyfriend at 4 am for HELP. He comes 8 hours later and calls you and tells you someone is unconscious. Someone who actually had been sliced to death, and he mentions no blood. And you STLL don't leave your room to check it out and offer help??? The boyfriend who 'saw' this unconscious person also doesn't rush in and offer help, not only no help for the 'unconscious' but also no help for his girlfriend who called him??? Was he late for work??

Where on the house was the blood weeping from. If needed for clarity please submit a drawing or markings on an overlaid photo of the residence.

And thanks to R259's link, we can see that the back addition had its own door. It could have been like a separate apartment...? Maybe there was sheet-rock and insulation between the 2 parts of the house.

[quote] And one more question: two people slept through it?

[quote] —R224

Yes, the two lesbians who were locked in the attic. They slept through the whole thing.

R49: thank you for mentioning this book! It’s an incredible, eye-opening read.

I chuckled at R210. Well done.

'Hey babe it's me, yea there's someone probably dead on the floor in there but there's a game on that I can't miss. You'll have to deal with this on your own! tootles!'

'Yea? Someone passed out dead by the window? Good! Those skanks can just stay where they are till 911 gets here because i ain't leaving this toasty bed for nuttin'

"I’m afraid it’s now been established that the Attic Girls were on the first floor. First Floor Girls just doesn’t work, dammit."

We can still use Attic Girls. It's established at this point and everyone knows that it simply means the surviving roommates, even if they didn't live in the attic. And since it's incongruous with where they actually resided, it's an offbeat part of the story - and will be fun to work into the Lifetime movie.

With them being mole people/basement dwellers it makes it more likely they heard everything going on upstairs. They might have not done it, but they knew what was going down upstairs.

[quote] With them being mole people/basement dwellers it makes it more likely they heard everything going on upstairs.

One of them was photographed, emerging from her room.

Actually, I could believe that Gen Z college kids would hide in their rooms and do diddlly-squat if they thought someone was dead or severely injured, these are the white middle-class kids who've been coddled their whole lives and who have no idea how to deal with an emergency. The surviving girls call a boyfriend, the boyfriend is no bravery or more competent in an emergency than they are, so none of them do anything but eventually call 911.

I'm genuinely surprised that none of them called their parents.

Yeah, because only "Gen Z college kids" are scared of mass murderers.

Most people have never witnessed a mass murder, not just "coddled college kids"

The Uvalde cops were too scared to take on a guy with a gun....and they were armed

[quote]We can still use Attic Girls. It's established at this point and everyone knows that it simply means the surviving roommates, t

Muricans never back down from being wrong or from perpetuating misinformation.

None of it makes sense and I think some of these details are probably wrong. Say she was drunk and called the bf, what is his reasoning for not coming sooner or calling 911? If they did think there was a crime downstairs, who the hell is going to sit in their room for hours? I think this info is going to prove inaccurate because it’s so illogical.

Nobody (not even Gen z) listens while their roommates (and friends) get slaughtered, and only calls their boyfriend. They know to call 911, and to keep calling 911 until 911 arrives. This is universal.

Here is the house.

Were the apartments separate? Do the "attic girls" have their own apartment?

That is one crazy house. There doesn't seem to be a right angle in the whole place.

This is all speculation based on a few alleged facts. What makes sense is the Sleepy Beauties we’re not aware of the attacks and simply slept late after a night of partying. Someone (boyfriend) came over and looked in the window and saw a body, most likely did not see blood. He called a SB and she called the police and said something along the lines of “they’re not moving” which the dispatcher cautiously recorded as an unconscious person.

I'll bet the Zestimate for this dump plummets for awhile.

WTF are you taking about r259. They surviving roommates were on the top floor. Hence “attic girls”. You are fixating on “facts” you have made up on your own.

IF there wer screams, the whole neighborhood would have heard it.

Thank you R259 for that news report’s video. I can see why the sister of one of the victims called the area “iconic”.

Which reminds me, this is like a real life Black Christmas (1974)! Except it’s a Black Thanksgiving! Very exciting.

If you'd gone to University you'd know this is great housing for students. Nice party house.

Is the last report I read inaccurate? Didn’t they say the other roommates heard thumping and one called the bf to check it out and he showed up hours later. The info keeps changing.

I can't believe nobody has checked Amanda Knox's alibi.

Why would they? She never killed anyone

Wait wtf now the original reports that attic girls were on the top floor is NOT correct and they were on the BTTOM floor? Sorry for my rant at r259 if that is actually correct and I’m not convinced because stuff keeps changing.

How would anyone find their way through that house at night with that layout if they weren't familiar with it?

Web fraus claim that one of the girls with a made up name texted the boyfriend and told him to come over.

Yeah it was that black guy who worked at the Soap 'n Suds.. He did it. *does handstand*

To add to r259 then so seems to have the layout sorted, remember the graduate who I think daily mail interviewed that lived there in past years said that higher elevation area is treed and it becomes “very remote” and forested. It’s easy for me to understand how this killer came and went undetected at 4am in a passed out college town. Also if he is unknown to the dead students, he might have had a great vantage point to watch their comings and goings from that forested area.

It may be true that one of the girls heard “thumping “ and called he boyfriend in the middle of the night, but it makes little sense. She would have to be too scared to go upstairs but not scared enough to call the police. And remember—the boyfriend didn’t show up for 8 hours. So if she did call him, he told her she was crazy. Even if you had reason to suspect that a homicidal maniac was killing everyone in your house, after many hours of silence you’d take a look around. You wouldn’t just roll over and go back to sleep.

So the surviving anal girls live on the first floor, the killing happened on the second floor????

^ annex girls

“Iconic” is subjective, but if you’re from the area, or an alum of any number of universities across the country, you’d know that every college town has a “cool” or “party” (iconic) street. NC State has Brent Road. Or…had. It’s calmed down considerably in the past 30 years. I lived in a rental on that street for 4 months many years ago. That’s as much partying and beer cans on the lawn, and 4am on a Wednesday “WHOOOO HOOOOOOO!!!!” screams I could take as a college kid. Multiple stabbing-murders crossed my mind many a time until I moved to a different street, however.

[quote] that’s where the AG girls were.

What the hell is AG?

R295 agree, The wooded area adjacent to the house would be perfect for someone watching the kids comings and goings.

The fact they weren’t sexually assaulted makes me think it wasn’t a stranger killer like Danny Rollings

Very scary and sad for these kids

R300 Attic Girls. KEEP UP!

annex girls

not attic girls

there are those on this thread who are persistently stupid

The Sleeping Beauties were not in the attic and there is no “annex.”

If you Google Map this it actually shows you that back entrance and it being on Queen Street. When you go to King Street and look for 1122 you see 1118 and 1126, but no front of 1122. It’s actually tucked back between them basically in the lot behind them. I don’t think there’s a driveway, let alone a pathway to the front of the house. This was definitely a student housing build, maybe done by the two properties to make money off their land. In its way it’s hidden, secluded, perfect for someone to commit murder in. I bet they had a hell of a time telling pizza delivery where they were actually located.

I’m still confused about which “boyfriend” showed up at noon the following, uh, night. The one who didn’t answer the phone calls from the deceased earlier in the, uh, morning? Whom did he call or text when he was outside viewing the motionless person inside?

R304 Like facts matter!

I think the facts on what the atticgirls did or didn’t hear and what they did about anything hasn’t been released or at least not released properly. Like most of the changing stories in this case.

I don’t know if two stoned basement dwellers would necessarily pick out or assume that a mass murder specifically was happening when most of the victims were asleep when the first wounds were inflicted. It’s not like everyone was running around screaming. At most they heard a scuffle.

I’m not sure any of the story about them has come out correctly.

Occam's razor people.

Are we ordering a pizza??!! Press conference at 6 pm tonight, PST, the po-leece are gonna explain EVERYTHING!!

I think when we finally learn what the sleeping girls heard upstairs (if anything), that will be the most spine-tingling bit of information to come out of this.

I’m also dying to know where exactly the murder rooms are positioned in relation to the room where the uninjured girls slept. The way the build of the house has been described, I’m picturing some kind of weird Lego build where the top floors aren’t even directly on top of the bottom.

[quote]Occam's razor people.

They are the dullest people of all!

The most interesting thing is where the bodies were located. We know they weren’t all in bed, as per the coroner.

It was the attic gang.

Why wouldn’t the homely attic gang gets makeovers instead of stabbing downward?

My theories are:

1) neighborhood psycho who has been doing weird things with knives in the last few months (threatening people in September and skinning a dog)

2) stalker (not necessarily a student) of the one girl - ie: angry incel.

3) we got ourselves a serial killah on da loose!

Btw Washington state ranks #5 for serial killers in the USA.

The homely attic gang were probably devil worshipers, R315!

R294 is one of the websleuth fraus who can't admit they were wrong about Amanda Knox

"Narcoleptics In The Basement"

Not that secluded---look at the picture in the Zillow link. Practically on top of a bunch of hoses down the hill.

Cellar dwellers.

Here’s new info bitches- enjoy!

[quote]Why wouldn’t the homely attic gang gets makeovers instead of stabbing downward?

I nearly fell off the sofa laughing at this. Too much! There really is no greater comedy than a tragedy.

Initially we call them AG (attic girls), not just because they live in the attic (as being told at the time), also those two girls are not as pretty as the blonde ones killed downstairs, they soon became a major suspect/accomplice to some posters here....the homely AGs (attic girls) hold a grudge against the pretty blondes and their big bedrooms!

Ok r320 you know better than people who lived there

The uninjured girls are never gonna be the same. Going to sleep will be a living nightmare for them.

[quote]Two of the victims were at a food truck shortly before then went home for the night and just a few hours before they were murdered.

At least there's that.

Jack is a drug dealer, I bet.

So, if the 911 call came from one of the AGs, when she went downstairs, she saw blood all over, freaked out and ran back to her room and called.

[quote] The uninjured girls are never gonna be the same. Going to sleep will be a living nightmare for them.

At least they survived.

Why is the one girl sitting on the neck and shoulders of the other girl? That's a lot of weight to put on someone's shoulders.

Whoever accidentally wrote “anal girls” made me laugh aloud!

So people are saying that one of the dead girls had a stalker, but she was the one who called her ex nine times in just a few hours.

None of this makes any sense.

Then again, Idaho seems like a weird place, so who knows?

My money is on the Attic Girls.

Jack could also be a dick dealer

I’m guessing the poor dog didn’t survive. If it was butchered then it might be the same person that skinned the other dog.

Weird that: They won't release which girl made the call. Weird that the caller only reported an 'unconscious' person. They had to have seen the blood, hell, the blood was probably dripping down their bedroom walls!!! These above facts aren't speculation, these are now official law enforcement releases. Wow

Probably turn out they didn't pay their drug dealer.

Maybe the dog was the killer’s intended victim and the humans were collateral?

UVA, Idaho, Colorado... what can you say?

A lot of wasted energy speculating on the poor A-Girls and Jack the boyfriend. If it’s true that the skinned dog belonged to one of the victims, I’m doubling down on my middle-aged creep with military and/or hunting experience who was angry and jealous of the students in the party house and was fixated on the two blonde sorority girls. I would not be surprised if he had a wife and kids of his own, like Dennis Rader and Bridge Guy.

If the flayed dog had belonged to one of the victims, we’d be hearing a lot more about it.

I think that is very plausible. But don’t these psychos usually sexually assaulted victims?

This might not be the first time this guy killed either.

No way, R283. It would go up. Maybe one of those fake ghost shows will buy it.

R335 they are probably trying to protect them somewhat from the media onslaught. It’s not necessarily important for the public to know which AG actually made the call either.

R334 it shouldn’t be too hard for your brain to comprehend that a college girl who was drunkenly demon dialing an on/off ex late at night , could also have a weirdo stalker that follows her around. I don’t get why you think they are mutually exclusive.

R341 He may have been intending to sexually assault the two sorority girls but was surprised by the male visitor and his GF, and killed them all in a rage. Also, there have been cases of serial killers who got off on just stabbing or strangling victims without actually sexually assaulting them.

They also sometimes indulge in increasingly disturbing behaviour as they go along too. They do one thing then think about how they could get even more of a thrill with the next.

I am leaning more towards serial killer either first time or a connection that has not yet been made to other deaths. They also can go dormant for years, then start killing again.

Added to that - I don’t believe this one will get solved anytime soon.

R8 is the kind of cunt that needs a little reality work from her "friends" in the word.

A response to a traumatic event may, indeed, be irrational, cunt. That means that the victim you're calling names has PTSD and likely cannot move past her experience in her dating because of that. Not "racist," cunt.

Since blacks are carrying more PTSD, on average, than many other groups, as well as BAD FAMILY AND SOCIAL ASSISTANCE in recovery, I'm sure that you're running around calling them racist when they avoid whites, cunt.

Do better. Or just head for a grease fire, cunt.

Idaho Law enforcement is at a grave disadvantage because they work in a state filled with militia groups and preppers who are experienced in combat training, survival skills, and evading authority. This could be another reason why the FBI was called in so fast.

r347 goes right on "Ignore," and I'm not even the person you're yelling at.

Save your personal problems for therapy.

Let’s be real — the odds that the killer did not leave any DNA from four violent attacks is extremely low. However, if there is no DNA from the killer, then I will definitely place my money on a highly-organized serial killer. I also will fall over if this is the first kill.

I think the cops are hiding info because they don’t know what in the fuck they are doing, just like Delphi. The dog story is extremely disturbing. I was friends with a guy whose roommate cut his cat in half — he immediately bailed and went into hiding for a year. Scary scary scary shit.

[Quote]UVA, Idaho, Colorado... what can you say?

One of these is not like the others.

Blue state, gay Governor, legal weed, etc. Should I block you for stupidity?

Small town police, small town mayor and small state law enforcement, competent or not, they don't have experience on high profile case in front of national and international media, and they certainly don't know how to coordinate. The chief from local PD had to walk back on his initial statement about the danger to the community, they also refused to identify the 911 caller and said the surviving roommates were not believed to be involved. The mayor made inappropriate comment on not ruling out anyone as suspect (you are not law enforcement, it's not your job! but I guess it's hard not to make an appearance in front of national media) , the state police then made their own assessment to the media, the two roommates were treated neither as suspects nor survivors, but they are the key to solve the case, which directly contradicted with the local PD. The local PD said later the two roommates were not suspects and they are still the commander here!

Everyone was talking to the media and that only added more confusion, who called 911? the attic girls, one of their boyfriends... what was the 911 call about? an unconscious person on the street, the boyfriend saw the blood from the window, the attic girls saw the blood then called the boyfriend...where did the two roomates live? the attic, the annex, the first floor.... the timeline of the events has so many different versions posted online, and people keep quoting the different version and being called out and corrected with another version...

The case was a total mess, it still is!

Most information released about slayings: We don't know who the killer is, we're interviewing witnesses, ect. Then it comes out it was the husband or neighbor or stalker. This crime is odd and different because initially they basically said they knew who did it, crime of passion, nothing to worry about, no concern. Then they backed up and said: don't know who did it, no suspects in mind, killer on the loose. What initial evidence did they run across that made them think they knew who it was?

The fact that there was no sexual assault, leads me to believe that it was the Attic Girls who did it.

If it was some derange male serial killer or stalker, he would have assaulted them.

But they were untouched.

I think the killer is a female.

I could be wrong but I’m betting it wasn’t anyone they knew. I grew up in California during the 60s 70s and 80s and remember all the stranger murders (often stabbings) at that time, usually perpetrated by some twisted maniac - think Manson family, the Trailside Killer, the Santa Cruz stabbings by a drifter who hated people who had a good job and money, the Zodiac, the Night Stalker, the Golden State killer, Juan Corona, Cary Stayner, the Keddie murders, the Gypsy Hill Killer. The list goes on and that’s just off the top of my head around the Bay Area. The Gypsy Hill killer murdered one of my classmates. It’s staggering how many stranger murders there were back then in a short amount of time and how few there are now.

What all those cases had in common was how random they were. The randomness also made them very difficult to solve, barring a confession.

Can someone please say where does the flayed dog come in to the story?

Was there one found in the neighborhood in recent weeks?

Look at the zillow listing and you can see the washer dryer is in the basement/mole girls' bathroom. So the whole house was always trapesing through their bathroom doing laundry. That's enough for murder right there.

It was the grub truck owner, who was pissed the girls did not leave a donation in the tip jar.

R354, I’ll lick your asshole if you’re correct about that.

R216/R217- it doesn’t mean he killed the dog one day and the students the next. He could have been killing animals for years. If he’s transient he could have been harming animals wherever he went.

I hope the FBI agents assigned are competent.

I’ve watched too many movies on how the FBI are so wonderful and all knowing, but reality always proves a different story.

I too think this will take a long time to solve. If not a crime of passion, the killer probably took every precaution to protect his DNA. Wonder if they got foot prints in and around their property

911 operators are so procedural. It shouldn’t be a big thing that they relayed it to first responders as “unconscious”. If that is even what has happened at all. Like r352 said - who knows what is even accurate anymore.

Usually they ask a person to see if they appear to be moving, breathing, making noise. They don’t ask the caller to make a decision about whether the person is dead or not.

R356 it's from tabloid rags like dailyfail, the dog incident was 3 miles away, but they will print anything to sell their stories

Thank you for that list, R355. I’m not familiar with a few of those, and now I know what I’m going to be doing to terrify myself tonight before bed!

I did that last night r364

The cast for the movie is still missing a theme song

I’m still going with serial killer in my top three.

Is the linked song something with four on the floor beat?

I would definitely leave town before all the Idaho-Strong & Moscow-Strong nonsense starts

My vote is one of the mole dwellers. Can see dropping the ball and being a fucked up roommate once in this saga but eveything they could have done right they did wrong. Suspicious.

I'm glad Madi and Kaylee got to break their diets and enjoy the carbonara before they died horribly.

R351, my point was that it's been a really dark couple of weeks and particularly hard on young people. That's all. If you're like that, it's satisfaction enough you live in your own skin. I hope you're as miserable as your presence.

Idaho homesteaders are known for raising animals for consumption. Even the housewives routinely slaughter rabbits, drain their blood, and post DIY videos on YT. I would guess there is some tension different demographic groups in the Moscow area.

The basement girls didn’t kill anyone. I wonder if the blood was dripping down one of their walls.

Why not call the police in any case? They had drugs in the house?

Sounds like there were girls all over this house, so I'm not buying the old "I didn't hear anything." Besides, if they were plain, they were probably all up studying!

They had a huge fight about how when they got their hoodies out of the dryer they always smelled like last night drunken carbonara dump.

Bizarre, R373.

.........

Oh my god please let Murphy be okay

Unless he was a Frenchie or a chihuahua… then I don’t give a shot

*shit!

It was obviously the face in window. The face in the motor-oil puddle has an airtight alibi, and the Flamin’ Hot Cheeto shaped like Jesus has receipts proving he was in Vegas on the night of the murder.

LOL, R382

Please let Murphy be white 🙏🏻

Is Murphy a rescue dog?

I think, considering all that he had to go through, Murphy is probably better off dead. Imagine having to live with all of that for the rest of your life, even in dog years.

Yeah, definitely gonna need to see a picture of Murphy before I decide whether or not to celebrate.

The girl said is Murphy is fine.

I wouldn’t be surprised if someone was watching them.

How else would you know who lived in that house and where their bedrooms were. I don’t think it was some lovelorn college kid stumbling in the house for the first time

I wonder where Murphy was hiding during all that slaughtering?

R378 Is Alex Brizee trans?

I'm sure Murph can ID the killer.

Ruh-roh!

Finding the wholesale slaughter of four people hilarious is the sign of a sociopath. WTF is wrong with some of you? Vile.

^^ Move it along, Toots! ^^

Perhaps the reason the 911 caller only reported a 'unconscious' person rather than a slashed up bloody one is because ......OH Murphy!!!!! (que laugh track)

I can't say I read the entirety of these two threads but I'm astounded by how much misinformation and confusion is going on. People popping in to ask questions already answered many times before and such.

But I, too, am confused. Are the surviving roommates Attic Girls or Basement Girls? They keep switching from tops to bottoms.

I'm imagining a blood-soaked stabber fleeing the scene. There must be a blood trail, bloody clothes, weapon, videos, etc., somewhere. Did anyone notice a naked man sitting in a laundromat while his wretched outfit spun dry?

And what of the unconscious person in the street that the surviving AG or BG called about? One of the four or a fifth person? Supposedly the unconscious one was hospitalized. It's possible they are a person of interest but not arrested yet. Still unconscious or not? There will surely be questions asked of them.

It's a horrible event and so sad for the victims and their families and friends. I share their horror having been close to several similar tragedies in my life. Yosemite killings for one. Not funny or joke-worthy at all. Another late night stabbing behind my house in an alley. I called 911 with an eye on the victim in the street while his friends screamed in shock about funeral plans.

Still, I see how situations spur grisly humor. It's a natural reaction to horror but when it's close to home you get a different perspective. That said, carry on. This is the fabled DL after all.

Well, one thing we can be sure if is that Murph didn’t go hungry that morning.

It could be an incel but maybe it’s an Israel Keyes type of killer. He’s a cool customer, probably has hunting and/or military experience, maybe even a slightly older student who is there on the GI Bill. He could be the person who drove them home or else he found some other way to get inside the house.

R397 here. Part Two of my above comment.

The stabbing victim lived. As he lay there stone cold "dead" with a police flashlight glaring in his face and friends, the good guys, in shock, he suddenly sat bolt upright to the amazement of all. Now that was funny and I could finally go to sleep.

Maybe the AG girls took Murphy into the bedroom with them? And the slaughterer knew he was there and that’s why he didn’t kill them? I do for some reason see the AG girls as sharing a room like Chrissy and Janet, don’t know if that true or not.

With all the girls up the attic and down in the basement and God knows where else, it's all starting to feel a bit Lizzie Borden to me.

[quote] I do for some reason see the AG girls as sharing a room like Chrissy and Janet, don’t know if that true or not.

Maybe the reason is you're just making shit up as you go?

Have we tracked down all the soft butch sous chefs in the area?

Has there been any definitive conclusion on if this is a spree killing or a serial killing?

I realize this has turned into Fan Fiction, waiting for the press conference, but Lizzie Borden, really? Besides it being not a gun, how is this like that at all?

There’s just too much to unpack

Guys, what if the killer was Murphy? He could have licked up all the evidence. I'm sure it was in self defence though. If those bitches wouldn't share their carbonara, it's justifiable.

We should probably start a GoFundMe for Murphy, get him a good legal beagle.

Be sure to scroll to the last picture, that features a K-Bar USMC knife.

It's like the argument they had in "Scream" - I just do not believe a woman could pull this off, certainly not any of the girls that lived in that house. They would have the strength to cover someones mouth, slit their throat, etc. I like the DL theory. A young Gen Z seems more likely to get a gun and shoot everyone. This seems more intimate and meticulous - this seems like an older man with hunting experience maybe.

Sexist.

Two women could pull it off though, R410.

Bitch, please.

I'd show R410 but apparently I'm too much of a lady.

Amateurs!

Get your Lizzie Borden facts straight, R406. Did you ever not chant this poem?

Lizzie Borden took an ax

And gave her mother forty whacks,

And when she saw what she had done,

She gave her father forty-one.

r409 Wow this makes Jack look vey suspicious. He meets the "hunting experience" and "knife owning" criteria. the "not Gen Z" criteria was never as strong. Because no one in Gen Z can be a passionate hunter/stabbity stabber? Also really comes off as a douche...

[quote] Sexist.

That's what my friend said and she bet money that it is a female killer. I'm taking that bet for free drinks. She also posited that it could have been 2 girls, but I don 't think so. What a completely shocking twist if it turned out to be 2 hot blond sorority sisters who did this together.

R409 interesting. Did he scrub his social media and these are screenshots.

I’m not sure what the pic supposed to be in the last screenshot. Is the knife in the screenshot his?

AND the victim's family is 100 PERCENT behind him. Practically a guarantee that he did it.

No, Heather, it's Heather's turn.

R409 those photos are horrifying. I can understand hunting for food but why the hideous gory display? Sick.

Wow - R409 just solved this case. I never thought about it, but these boys know how to hunt and skin. Those phots certainly don't look good. I think we have our killer.

r419 You can see a knife like that on the floor in the deer bloodbath pic and the other guy is holding another knife.

Thanks r424

So, was it a rage killing? Was someone humiliated at some point, bearing a grudge?

The only reason Jack Showalter is being mentioned is because some web sleuth incorrectly deduced he was the ex-boyfriend named Jack that one of the victims called because he was friends with someone on FB. That was a different guy.

Blood dripping down to outside wall, the police at first saying it was not a threat to community, saying it was a crime of passion & targeted attack. Could there be a message in blood on that wall that gave them those clues?

They also said (from rag DM, see quotes below) they are looking into other relationships and other boyfriends . Could this be a twisted love triangle or quadrangle? Is it just me or do Kaylee & Madison look like more than friends? Every photo they are pressed up against each other or touching flirtatiously. My 20-something year old daughters don’t do that, not even close to it, at all. This could explain the call to the bf, Jack. Maybe the killer wanted them to get Jack to come over so he could kill Jack, too.

From DM…”The house that the six women shared showed no signs of a break in, police said at a press conference on Wednesday. James Fry, chief of Moscow police, said nothing appeared to have been stolen from the house, which had a keycode lock.

'We're not 100pc sure if the door was unlocked, but there was no damage to anything and the door was still open when we got there,' said Fry. Asked about the mayor of Moscow's description of the killing as a 'crime of passion', Fry said they were looking into it, and also investigating social media posts and any boyfriends or relationships the women had.” ###

Door unlocked, no damage to anything - I take that to mean no damage to door, its lock or that area. They say nothing was stolen. But they don’t say the house was left “untouched” or “undisturbed.” I really feel like there is a message in blood on that wall.

^I thought that too, R428, based on the cops saying early on that the killing was "targeted" and that there was no need for alarm. How could they have believed that, unless there was some kind of message inside the house?

And if they did not actually have good reason to tell the community that there was no need for alarm, I have a hard time thinking that the police would have made an announcement like that. To have done so without justification is just too creepy.

r427 Are you sure that is nt Jack? Who confirmed this? I didn't think Jack's identity was a mystery.

Where are the Attic Girls currently staying? Are they back in the attic?

Those pics are gross. Like r422 said, killing for food is one thing, but those two psychos are relishing in the gore, guts and killing

The video shows him talking to the girls, the cute petite blonde points her finger at him and the other blonde talks to her (maybe, saying just ignore him)

I think the pigs said that to the community (“you’re not in danger”) is because that’s what pigs do — lie. They didn’t want to deal with mass panic.

They also said it was a crime of passion, and those are most often committed by ex-partners (second most likely by current partners). I know romantic/sexual relationship is not a prerequisite, but those are still the most common cases. It seems like that was their working theory, so they said no danger to the public, but they had to walk back a bit for some reason like lack of evidence or the suspect being someone's son.

The very beginning said there was someone bleeding and alive found in front of the murder house. I read two seperate articles that said that. The it was dropped but not sure if it was ever officially corrected to NO ONE found bleeding in front of house, but maybe there was clarification. Could this be Jack? Maybe attempted suicide?

"There's no need to panic. We have everything under control."

R436 I heard the same story when it first came out then nothing.

R397 “ I can't say I read the entirety of these two threads but I'm astounded by how much misinformation and confusion is going on. People popping in to ask questions already answered many times before and such.

But I, too, am confused. Are the surviving roommates Attic Girls or Basement Girls? They keep switching from tops to bottoms.

I'm imagining a blood-soaked stabber fleeing the scene. There must be a blood trail, bloody clothes, weapon, videos, etc., somewhere. Did anyone notice a naked man sitting in a laundromat while his wretched outfit spun dry?

And what of the unconscious person in the street that the surviving AG or BG called about? One of the four or a fifth person? Supposedly the unconscious one was hospitalized. It's possible they are a person of interest but not arrested yet. Still unconscious or not? There will surely be questions asked of them.”

You say you are astounded by people asking for repeat information, yet you just did the exact same thing.

This is a modern day Dyatlov.

[quote] Dyatlov

Someone should make a thread on that!

r438 I guess also journalists could have been misunderstanding the facts, because the AG's and her boyfriend story is so confusing. Who was food where and why 9 hours after AG heard scary sounds in hr own home?

Jack Showalter couldn't have done it. He looks like my nephew, and Tommy is totally incapable of doing such a thing.

I believe there is a press conference scheduled this evening. Maybe they will provide a few answers.

So r409 is this Jack shoawther guy also food truck guy? I thought they cleared the food truck guy.

Law enforcement lie all the time. Maybe they just said they've cleared this guy to throw him off and get him to relax

I can’t find anything saying there is a press conference tonight. Just a poster here. Which doesn’t confirm a thing.

You can't find anything because the press conference is right now.

R 447 didn't look too hard. It's starting right this second. Live on this link:

They still don't know who? Killer was just a random person then? Weird.

Go fuck yourself r449

He did not exonerate the individual the girl called multiple times. He's basically given no real new news.

R428, I also said they looked like more than friends. Also saw this mentioned on Reddit (where it was interestingly not downvoted into oblivion). Maybe that’s why the breakup seemed amicable.

Also just learned that straight guys in rural areas will often put dead animal photos in their Tinder profiles. It’s not my demographic, but I’m guessing there’s some caveman need to show women they can kill or catch animals. My point being, photos of their hunting conquests are not uncommon.

Press conf is a nothing-burger. Puff piece.

Q & A starts now!

Was Murphy mentioned in the press conference?

^^^r447 is gonna need a confirmation on the above statement.

So far, nothing about Murphy. He is said to be under psychiatric care, though.

The journalists are playing "20 questions" with the police chief. "I'm not tellin' you nothin!" Chief says now there is NO connection to the calls made and the killings.

The chief is still not disclosing 911 caller ID, but the call was made from the roommate's phone

I hope they get Murphy one of those Thunder Jackets (or Mass Murder Jackets)

well I guess the local PD knows how to write a parking ticket or breaking bar fights, anything else, we are not going to disclose...it's an ongoing...

They’ve got the staties and feds working on this.

Is it possible that the male victim killed the others and suicided? Not that I think that’s what happened, but is it possible?

Which roommates' phone made the call to 911?

R464 yes, definitely possible, thank you for the new clue!

R465 ongoing case, not disclosing it for now

How come the university students haven't splashed the 2 other "roommates'" names all over the internet? How has that been kept secret for a whole week? And R465, the Chief did not give out any information about whose phone was used, only that a friend of the owner made the 911 call.

Did someone say there is a photo of Murphy? What kind of dog was he and wouldn’t he raise holy hell if his people were being slain?

Big big difference if the call was made by one of the basement 'roommates'' phone or if it was made by one of the dead girls phone.

Press conference on right now. 44 FBI agents working on it now. 15 Troopers specifically for the murders.. Begging for videos that people might have. Asking for tips.

The victims were on the second and third floor but the police won't give any additional information.

Right before noon the call for 911 was made from the surviving roommate's phone but the police won't say who made it. Something new, when the cops got there additional individuals were at the home but the police won't say how many. I'm assuming the boyfriend of a survivor was one of these individuals.

Not involved: Surviving roommates, male at food truck, the driver who brought the girls home, the ex-boyfriend who was being called.

Who are the Vandals?

The only new news is that all four dead ones got home around the same time 1:45. AG’s got home at 1am.

AGs. FTG, and driver home of the two dead girls are not suspects.

Not cleared are the friends who showed up that morning (though if one of them made the call from AG’s phone they are unlikely involved.

Doesn’t sound like the ex that was called 10 times was cleared. But that might just be sloppy police not covering it off.

R468 they have been named. Daily mail had pic s and name. One is named Bethany funke or something. It’s not a secret.

^The Chief answered a question and said that none of the people who had been called was considered a suspect. He did not say why or name names.

"DataLounge analysts are working around the clock to solve the case. No further questions at this time."

[quote] Has there been any definitive conclusion on if this is a spree killing or a serial killing?

So far, this is just a mass killing.

A serial killer (think Ted Bundy, or the BTK Killer, or the Son of Sam) kills at least two people but in separate incidents over a period of time, with a cooling off period in between. This could be a serial killing if more people are killed in a separate incident, since it's been a full week.

A spree killer (think Charlie Starkweather or Andrew Cunanan) kills multiple people and at different places, but there's no genuine cooling off period between the killings.

I didn’t hear that ex that got the calls was cleared.

Police still saying indications are it was indeed targeted though.

[quote] One is named Bethany funke or something. It’s not a secret.

Any relation to Tobias, Lindsay, and Maeby Funke?

Pic of Murphy. Irate fan of natural poodle curls gone mad could take no more and rampaged on behalf of show poodles every where.

And they aren’t as cute based on the pictures. That’s where Attic Girls was born.

Both of those men in the video are hot.

[quote] I didn’t hear that ex that got the calls was cleared.

What I said in R475 is what the Chief said: the people who were called that night on the victims' phone(s) are not suspects. He said it.

If this were a made-for-TV miniseries I would watch the shit out of it.

[Quote]Any relation to Tobias, Lindsay, and Maeby Funke?

Unconfirmed at this stage. Police are looking into known never-nudes in the area.

[Quote]And they aren’t as cute based on the pictures. That’s where Attic Girls was born.

[Quote]If this were a made-for-TV miniseries I would watch the shit out of it.

Fuglies In The Attic.

R473, the poster at R471 says the boyfriend who was called 10 times in the middle of the night was “not involved.” Where do you get that he was “not cleared”?

Are we to presume that the kid who hunted the wooly mammoth or whatever that poor thing was in the pictures upthread is NOT the boyfriend who was called in the middle of the night? Is that hunter kid not involved at all?

I could be wrong, but at these point, LE would be as vague as possible.

The fact they announced that AG, food truck guy and ex-bf were exonerated, makes me think they aren’t

That’s just bonkers, R488.

^R488: If that's your approach, then (rationally) NOTHING anyone says about the crime can be taken at face value or be believed. How do we even know that ANY of these kids was killed? The whole thing is just a big teevee show. You might as well pack your bags, head on out there, and start your own investigation, right? You're nuts.

Lots of rural and small town kids hunt and would have knives. It doesnt really add to the case for Showalter as the killer.

"Who are the Vandals?"

It's the University of Idaho's sports teams name.

But we don’t even know that *that* Jack (Showalter) person is the Jack who was called repeatedly by one of the victims, right?

Concise article from SF Gate. Police have walked back the "nothing to fear" angle.

I don’t want to speak ill of the dead but holy Christ those tans and bleach jobs are ghastly.

^Those girls are like clones.

Nothing is being revealed and sounds like the police know very little. This could be like Delphi murders where it takes years to solve.

Wel r487. Note that our two posts you speak of were 1minute apart - if that. So maybe fuck off. I didn’t hear it so that’s what I said. R471 obviously DID hear it. You are for sure a big cunt though!

Yeah, I don't see this being wrapped up any time soon.

R498, I’m sorry - I really didn’t mean to be a cunt! While I was typing my response, other replies came in and I didn’t see them. Didn’t mean to aggress upon you.

R492 They named there sports team after a 1980s Punk band from Orange County? Well the song is appropriate nonetheless.

Thank you r500. I will walk back the fuck off and the cunt thing.

R487 didn't sound cuntish to me.

There's always someone who lights up a room. Given three sorority girls, one of them was probably cuntish and mean.

Dateline producers are salivating over this story.

^The series is already in production, we want to have it ready to go the same week as the killer is finally named.

Keith Morrison is popping the popcorn as we speak

OMG, gays, listen to this...

DH's DS, my SIL, just told me a scary AF story about something that happened in her subdivision. Vandals were sneaking around dripping blood on the outside of houses to mark them as the homes where trafficable young virgins lived! Then the trafficking gangs would come around and scoop 'em all up in the middle of the night! Right there in my SIL's subdivision! My whole body is literally one huge goosebump RN!!

As a #proudboymom who also the mom of a girl, my hink-o-meter is GOING OFF!!!!!!

Nobody is funny on this thread

Except the one gay that said the AGs were punching down

“Murder House,” “Attic Girls,” “Mystery Man,” Sleeping Beauties.” Nancy Grace is all over this thread.

I’ve laughed uproariously at many replies in this thread. Not ALL of them, of course.

What a mess. That "press conference" was bullshit! They couldn't wait to get outta there, and disclosed nothing new. They have no idea who did this, obviously.

It seems like if a person stabbed four adult humans, would be covered in blood, from head to toe, but apparently, left no evidence. I saw the crowded configuration of "College Rentals", and it's almost impossible to believe, there's no cameras, or anyone that didn't see/hear anything. I just can't fathom it.

Also, these were 4 kids, on track, and I can't imagine what they did to deserve this, if these murders were indeed, "targeted".

Despite all the snark, etc.. I hope justice is served. 4 young lives being snuffed out, plus all their families... this is fucked up, and they need to solve this. It just seems unfathomable, there's really no cogent info available. Maybe there is, and the websleuth twat-holes are to blame, I just don't know.

R157 I’m a maître d'.

Based on your posting history, neither are you r509.

[R491] " Nothing is being revealed and sounds like the police know very little. This could be like Delphi murders where it takes years to solve."

They had a lot more to go on with on the Delphi murder, a video of the killer and the sound of his voice. He lived locally and it still took them 5 years to nail him.

Kaylee's parent's said yesterday that they supported her ex 2000%. Today, they dropped it to 1000%, still saying "they would probably have gotten married some day and had kids."

Possibly, ex thought she was headed for bigger and better things (she was moving, soon) and that he'd never date any one like her again. They don't look like a couple. Maybe he was on some antidepressant or ADD med. Obsessive/jealous. Wanted to make it look like a random act of violence.

parents, not parent's. ^

Not saying it couldn't possibly be some sort of random serial killer, but the odds are very, very, against it. When young white girls are brutally murdered, it's a 90% chance they knew their killer. That's indisputable. These kids lived their lives on social media. It shouldn't be this difficult.

He's a little weasel!! He COULDN'T have killed those girls with a knife, much less that tall guy. No way.

R518, isn’t that more the case when it’s a single homicide and not a quadruple one?

You're right r512. Just think of what would have to happen to pull off a perfect murder. It's almost impossible to imagine getting away with it. That's why I can hardly believe it was a targeted attack. It would need to be random, with the murderer having no connections to the victims or the town, to even have a snowball's chance in hell of getting away clean.

^MOST of the murders committed in the United States are not solved. The percentage for that is up to about 50% or higher, where the two parties (or in this case, 5) did not know each other previously. The world of teevee is NOT like the actual world, crime is very often unsolved.

Why do young white girls, when taking full-body photos, cock one leg up, at a 90 degree angle a la Marilyn Monroe? Why? What's that pose called, and why on Earth, do they do it?

The girl, Maddy... did it every chance she got, and I've seen it many times, with young girls I'm acquainted with. Is there a name for it, or a particular reason they do it? I'm genuinely curious.

Oh no! That Jack looks Gay, Gay Gay! This is just like that Unsolved Mysteries on Netflix about Josh the closeted Gay overachiever at the religious school who a few weeks prior broke up with his long term girlfriend and then disappeared forever. Was Jack the valedictorian of his high school?

R518, no disrespect but the stats for female homicide victims is 50% stranger vs intimate partners doing the killings.

R509 was clearly a fugly Attic Gay in college.

R525 no disrespect, but "intimate partner" is a LOT different than "someone the victim is acquainted with", Bitch.

I looked through all of the photos in the Daily Mail link in this thread and did not see Murphy. Where are people viewing his pic? Is it in the previous thread?

^I don't think Murphy actually even exists. Not gonna go back and hunt for him though. We'll know more about him once he's released from the mental hospital.

R528 here - did the murderer hand Murphy steak and that’s how he was able to silence him? Or a jar of peanut butter?

R523, they do it because they've been conditioned to feign Kardashian ass in every photo. You can arch your back and stick your butt out lot more when one leg is up.

Similarly, the suggestive poses with friends are also for the benefit of the douchebros they're trying to attract. Nothing makes an AWG sit up and take notice like the prospect of a threesome.

I don't believe we've seen a photo of Murphy posted on DL.

If the killer tossed him a Schmacko, he would've turned an eye to the slaying. Hell, those bitches were probably too busy partying all the time to feed him properly. The real victim in all of this is Murphy.

90% of white girls?

Murphy is in the TikTok video in Part 1. He looks like a small doodle and he’s really cute. He probably did hide out under a bed while the murders took place.

He needed to be with a family/couple/single person and not a bunch of shrieking banshees. No disrespect for the dead intended.

^ Murphy seems like a prop.

I don’t get involved in these things personally. I just like to stay up on current news and I am so emotionally involved in this now. I am having a hard time not thinking about it. I guess it is because I have 2 daughters and one of went away to college for 4 years. It was a long 4 years, I was so worried about her the whole time. Am a single mother, and my daughters are estranged from their father. I know solving the case will not bring the deceased back, but I just need to know they have been caught.

I cannot believe during the presser it was so casually mentioned that it is possible there is more than 1 perpetrator.

They seem so blasé about a killer, now maybe multiple killers, on the loose.

R349's pussy stinks.

R536 With all the media attention, the killer or killers are unlikely to strike again any time soon, not in Moscow!

^The police do not want to let the perpetrator(s) know what they do or don't know about what happened. It's just that simple.

Their football team is called the Vandals? Like Vandals and Visigoths who looted Rome?

WTF? Is this "white power baby" or do they just like criminals?

R349 is SO sensitive:

Why do some women want MASSIVE dresses and veils at their weddings? Naomi Biden used enough organza and Chantilly lace to clothe all of Kolkata. Scroll down at the link to see how insanely oversized the dress and veil are.

What is this trying to say?

"I'm important!"?

"Whatever Princess Diana ha for her wedding, I want even more!"?

Four Students found dead near the University of Idaho - Part Two [quote] My friend was saying that the sorority and frat that the girls/boy went to is one of those creme de la creme houses where you have to be hot and popular.

The creme de la creme of the University of Idaho!

How truly glamorous!

Four Students found dead near the University of Idaho - Part Two [quote] This is more “Charles Manson”, minus the groupies and media frenzy, than anything else. Crime is never as complex as we first envision it to be.

The very Charles Manson case you claim negates that claim. That was much more complex than expected to be.

Four Students found dead near the University of Idaho - Part Two Goncalves was almost certainly Basque. There's a huge Basque population in Idaho, and Goncalves is a Basque name.

Four Students found dead near the University of Idaho - Part Two [quote] [R95] is a horrible person targeting people who've experienced a horrific tragedy for online harassment.

Mary!!!

Four Students found dead near the University of Idaho - Part Two [quote] "She also said that the number of calls was not unusual: Kaylee Goncalves would frequently call people until they picked up, even to ask a mundane question like what she should have for breakfast, her sister said."

No wonder she was murdered.

R540 I didn’t know that was the team name, and saw a photo from Moscow saying “We ♥️Our Vandals” I was ready to clutch my pearls, but I just presumed it was a team name.

Those pics on the DM of Kaylee and Jack are very revealing. She's got to be a Boise 9 and he's a Moscow 4. Who did the dumping? Wonder if any of her hot roommates noticed that big discrempancy.

Drug murder, possibly by the Sinaloa cartel.

Mark Fuhrman is weighing-in??!

Does this case have the potential to surpass the 7 part snow-shoveling fracas, here on the DL??!

I wonder if Jack is wealthy, which would be attraction

Jimmmmmmmmmmy

I was glued to those post and watched that crazy video too much

I hope the perp is the dog skinner because it would suck to have yet an additional sicko in town.

R540 Yes, I am sure it is a reference to Vandals and Visigoths. I imagine at the time that name was chosen their was little diversity in Idaho (not that there is a lot now.)

could be this:

You FUCKER, YOU!!!!!!! ?

R546 yes, it has the potential but things need to pick up fast before it has become a cold case and people lose interest, if we have a suspect or suspects next week, a fugitive/pursuit for another week, a capture the week after...we could have a 10 part series climaxed around Xmas!

You shoulda kept your mouth shut!!

[quote]I don't understand why people don't just call 911. Like those 2 young women who went to a club and then to a house party and then got killed (Oakland, CA, IIRC). They had their phones. Instead of dialing 911, they're texting ... each other.

Are you thinking of the Christy Giles/Hilda Cabrales case (which happened in LA, actually)? Tbh I'm not convinced those two even knew they were in danger. That "Let's go" message with they wide-eyed emoji one sent to the other seems eerie in hindsight, but it could've meant something as mundane as, "Fuck, it's 4:30 already and there are people waiting for us at the *official* afterparty, let's not waste any more time with these slimy dudes".

In this case however, it really seems weird that one of the attic girls called her boyfriend for help instead of 911 (IF that is what happened). Still, I just can't see those girls being involved in it. I agree with whoever said it was likely someone who didn't actually know the victims, but had been watching them very closely for weeks or even months. Not even necessarily a stalker type who was obsessed with one of them ... more like someone who wanted to kill, and picked those kids because the location of the house and their lifestyle made them easy targets.

Just give the Daily Maul free rein and they'd solve it tomorrow (and turn up a dozen delicious scandals to boot)

These students never locked there doors and were apparently drunk a lot of time. Not smart in this day and age, even in bumfuck idaho.

Apparently r555 didn’t watch the news conference or bother reading the thread. That’s NOT what happened.

R557 the claims of "party house" "key pad" etc were told by the family members, they are making rounds on morning shows and doing all sorts of interviews, but t what they said are hearsay, really they are, they have no first hand knowledge on those things, none of their claims have been verified or confirmed by the police, the fact the other two girls locked their rooms told us they were not careless at all!

Some of the various family members seem to be getting off on the media attention.

R558, someone else on this thread literally had the same theory and a lot of people agreed with them, so fuck off.

But no, I didn't bother watching the press conference because according to this thread, no new/interesing info was revealed. Why would I waste my time on that?

Then you’re an idiot r561. You would have learned that what you wrote is not the case. But you’re too lazy to read a thread and more content spewing your bullshit all over it despite not keeping up with things. So instead you waste everyone else’s time posting and debating shit that has been put to rest a few hours ago. It proves you to be a massive loser who just wants to hear yourself talk. Bitch be blocked 👋.

Girls, girls, girls, this thread is giving me a headache.

Thank you to the people who have actually put out good theories. RIP to the four people gone.

Murphy, the dog, didn't bark his head off during the disturbance after 1:30 am?

I can't believe this case won't be solved for 5 years. We can do better! I too am emotionally involved with this case. It's so sad. 4 more young lives gone, and a whole town should be on high alert. I want this to be solved, now! Tomorrow! TIA.

R562 has got to be the most touchy, hysterical cunt on datalounge EVER. Anyway, has anyone actually "learned" anything from that press conference? Well?

[Quote]I don’t get involved in these things personally. I just like to stay up on current news and I am so emotionally involved in this now. I am having a hard time not thinking about it. I guess it is because I have 2 daughters and one of went away to college for 4 years. It was a long 4 years, I was so worried about her the whole time. Am a single mother, and my daughters are estranged from their father. I know solving the case will not bring the deceased back, but I just need to know they have been caught.

Thanks for stopping by the DL on your way to WebSleuths, Frau. Your long-winded comment added nothing to the discussion, but I'm sure it made you feel warm on the inside.

... whereas R565 (who is probably also R562) just single-handedly solved the case!

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Can't believe we're giving this case so much attention considering we're one week in and there's still not a single hot guy ANYWHERE in the story.

Jack and kaylee had been an item for years. They broke it up when? May have said 3 months ago? And Kaylee was calling him over and over?

Those girls were fucking.

R567 are you really that gullible to fall for DailyFail? 3 miles is not "living close"!

Her talkative sister said that she believed Kaylee and Jack would get back together - they'd been friends since primary school - oh something like that. She's the one who said Kayley was weird about calling people over and over until they'd answer - even just to ask them what they thought she should have for breakfast.

I think she's the one who's family said weird stuff about - she was a go getter, super competitive, would push her way to the top... I kept thinking, your parents are describing you this way!? It had an edge to it, what they said, bordering on critical. And then the sister/breakfast thing. Oh well, move on, Jack, we're rooting for you. And Murphy.

Oh n ow I remember - sister said Kayley and Jack still shared ownership of a dog! don't think it was Murphy. Maybe he was a wimpy dog who hid - or stayed in the living room and all the crimes were in bedrooms with doors shut?

Nah, as someone else said, young straight girls tend to be very touchy feely with each other, especially the "hot and popular" type. I think that behavior is part genuine emotional attachment, and part desire to project an image of having a "BFF relationship" with someone. It's pretty much expected of young girls. Note how in all rom-coms or TV shows directed at young(ish) females, the heroine (whether single or in a relationship) always has a BFF she confides ALL her secrets to, and whom she can call at 3 a.m. in the morning etc.

Is it possible Buster Murdaugh was in town?

[quote]You shoulda kept your mouth shut!!

Wasn’t it “You should kept your FUCKIN’ mouth shut!”?

In two different photos, one girl had the other one on her shoulders and I kept thinking she was proclaiming her dominant role in a Lesbian relationship. It's weird to pose like that twice -- in at least one of those pictures, the couple that were killed were all cuddled up.

This thread is filling up fast, link to coming part 3

The dog not making any noise is odd, but some dogs are like this where they will sleep through anything. Maybe he was used to it being a party house and people making a lot of noise, and learned to sleep through it all.

Maybe the dog was drunk too.

I really don't think the attic girls were involved. However, if it turns out the dog was drugged to keep him quiet ...and maybe the victims too? Well....

[quote] On Nov 13th, the surviving roommates summoned friends to the residence bc they believed 1 of the 2ndfloor victims had passed out and was not waking up. Multiple people talked with the 911 dispatcher b4 police arrived ..

a bit of new information on who called/talked to the police, more than 1 person!

GROW A BRAIN, JOHN.

I know it's been asked before, but HOW could the survivors/the boyfriend NOT see the blood? We're told it was leaking down the OUTER WALLS of the house. The boyfriend peeking in through a window didn't see any of it? Nothing was coming through the doors of the victim's rooms (or were the survivors still in their own rooms at that point? )

Also, from what I know, blood starts to smell pretty awful after a while. With litres of blood spilled, and 8-9 hours having passed, it must have stunk to high heaven.

If the survivors really only said the others had "passed out" and weren't waking up, that's very very odd.

... and if they really didnt't see (or smell) the blood, how did they even know something was wrong? A bunch of college kids not having gotten up by noon on a Sunday, after a night of partying really isn't unusual.

R584 Actually it could all be explained - the extremely poor communication from the local PD. The girls might scream she looked dead, the 911 dispatcher wrote down "unconscious" or some other law enforcement terms , and the police/source leaked those internal code words to the media, and now after the conference, the chief had a bit chat with the reporters and revealed a bit more on what happened on that morning but without all the context, which only added more confusion here.

Of the seven characters in this drama, the six housemates (five girls and Ethan) and then Jack, only one doesn't quite fit the profile of the others. And that very person is the only one who'd been exiled from the group. And the only one who'd been called repeatedly during the night.

Does anyone know how far Jack the ex-boyfriend lived from the Moscow house?

[quote]The girls might scream she looked dead, the 911 dispatcher wrote down "unconscious" or some other law enforcement terms , and the police/source leaked those internal code words to the media, and now after the conference, the chief had a bit chat with the reporters and revealed a bit more on what happened on that morning but without all the context, which only added more confusion here.

That makes sense, but how was NO BLOOD mentioned? Surely, if the caller had mentioned that the room appeared to be full of blood, the dispatcher would have written that down as well? How could that bit of info get lost?

It seems unfathomable to me that the two "attic girls" did this, but it would explain so much: the weird 911 call, the fact that the dog didn't bark (they could've drugged him or hid him somewhere), the fact that no one was seen entering the house after the victims, and no one was seen leaving with blood-soaked clothes or a big backpack, the lack of bloody footprints etc...

And the nine hour delay in calling 911

Possible the “unconscious” stabbing victim was covered in a blanket or comforter by the perpetrator after the stabbing and the blood wasn’t immediately visible to the first witness on the scene?

By the way, what exactly does that amount of drying blood smell like after several hours?

The metallic (iron) smell of blood can be very strong when fresh. Literally smells like rotten meat in the trash when it's been around a while.

R590 it smells like rust, actually the description of "rust" smell is coming from human blood, the oxidation from iron in the blood.

*Sadly, another thing I learned here on DL is what K-Bar is.

**Also, maybe the 4 deceased WERE drugged. It sounded also weird, like every other fact in this case. 4 young people came home at 1:30 am after partying Sat.night (common) Then they all go to sleep. All of them, just like that. No TV, no insomnia, no late night phone calls, no dog barking... odd.

It isn’t only blood. If the GI tract is penetrated, that unlocks another level of stench.

Well, there *were* late-night phone calls, but it seems everyone was in bed less than an hour after the last call (last call was at 2:52 a.m. IIRC, and LE seems to assume they were all dead by 4 a.m.) ... I agree that seems a bit odd.

Unfortunately toxicology reports seem to take weeks if not months.

Look at the pics of Kaylee G. and Jack Ducoeur together as a couple. Keep in mind that Kaylee's parents said they've been together for years, that they would have eventually gotten married. Keep in mine that Kaylee had recently dumped him, and he lived there in Moscow and they both attended university together.

[quote]It sounded also weird, like every other fact in this case. 4 young people came home at 1:30 am after partying Sat.night (common) Then they all go to sleep. All of them, just like that. No TV, no insomnia, no late night phone calls, no dog barking... odd.

Where did you come up with all that? We don't know when the couple went to sleep. The two drunk girls who were murdered stopped making phone calls about 3am. For all we know, it was only Kaylee who was up, and the other girl had gone to sleep while Kaylee kept trying to call her boyfriend, and even used the roommate's phone a few times.

The best we can tell, the two surviving roommates were asleep when this all started, though one may have woken up and gone into the other girl's room and locked the door, after hearing noises or thumps or something.

We don't know that the TV wasn't on. We don't know that the dog didn't bark.

-----.

*****.

&&&&&