REVENGE Part 11 - Tell All Books, Scandals and Royal Gossip

Previous thread:

Can someone clarify whether or not Archie and Lilibet have formally been given the Prince and Princess titles? There's so much conflicting information about!

Argh! No more titles talk!

Until it comes from BP it's all BS. And when it comes from BP - either way - it will be in every newspaper.

Thanks, R4. Some are stating it's already done on Twitter, but I've not seen the news anywhere else.

Twitter ... is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.”

― William Shakespearish, Macbeth2.0

R2 Someone has posted a longer answer to your question in the previous thread. For context, Oprah Daily posted a video on twitter stating that Archie and Lili are now Prince and Princess. This has not been confirmed by the palace and given Oprah’s history with Harry and Meghan, some see it as the usual ‘manifesting’ by the Sussexes.

So they have a new PR agency, do they?

Well, maybe the new PR agency can do what SS failed to do, and convince them that they won't become popular celebrities or social media stars by building a public image around incredibly boring "philanthropy"! Celebrities may do a bit of "philanthropy" as a side hack, but if anyone pays attention to that it's not because philanthropy is interesting, it's because they like the celebrity for something else they've done! Yes, that's all royals do, but the royals are deliberately boring, but again, they're famous for other reasons, reasons that Harry and Meg have rejecected.

If they want to be popular as well as famous-for-being-famous, they'll have to do something other than the boring kind of do-gooding they do once a month. What, I don't know, coming up with that is the new PR person's job. But good luck trying to convince Harry to do anything resebling work, if they think that he should get out there and sweatily build Habitat for Humanity houses.

The seem to just want to talk. I mean, facilitate ideas that will make us better as people, as a planet, as another p that sounds grand and caring. So I guess what I mean is yap.

Oprah has always been obsessed with the Royal family. She was desperate to get an interview with Princess Di and it never happened. Bitch can't stand being snubbed.

I for one cant wait for their next fuck up. And we all know there will be one.

Even when photographed, they have to hang onto each other. The smirk on Harry's face is strange.

I'm American but lived in Europe for 30 years. Markle is a type of obnoxious American - and people from California are the worst - who arrive in Europe to "teach" the locals The Way of the World. They're constantly whining about how things in Europe aren't like they are in LA and Europeans are so backward. They offend everybody they meet and then claim Europeans are snotty.

And Americans pathetically defend any American who gets in trouble in Europe like it's so unfair. Those horrible Europeans! See that bitch Amanda Knox. Markle is Knox the Sequel.

Major JOHNNY alert! at 11:43. (thanks for the poster in the previous thread for the link to today's Scottish visit) -

Hmmm, perfect timing. First, the release of the Fab Four and now a couple of photos of the pretend royals. The Sussex Clowns are sooo predictable.

They are always CLINGING to each other and that blouse sleeve is badly wrinkled. Kate would never.

oops at r14, linky stinky in the wrong field. Corrected:

Ever since they dumped SS, the DM has been on over tilt with Royal stories. Or is it since the queen kicked?

DM has been all over them for a while, but I think they were really inspired to keep hammering them since the Queen died, especially as MM and Harry were in the UK for their pretend royal tour and had turned down the Queen's request to visit her at Balmoral (and then it was too late of course). A few weeks before the Queen died, Meghan was also threatening the Royal Family in her the Cut interview, saying she hasn't signed any NDA and can talk at any time. DM is brutal but they decided to be extra brutal with these 2.

Cliched but true: never pick a fight with somebody who buys newsprint by the tonne.

Harry is smirking in R12 because he knows they will add some extra hair on his head in photoshop before they release the picture.

If they hadn't paid Sunshine Sachs until recently, I wonder if they are paying their lawyers for their many lawsuits and such.

Doubtful r22. It will be interesting to see how they fare now.

There's a post on another thread that says they're looking for a new house for more privacy. Does this not seem like a kind of restlessness to you?

In the video at R17, you can take Johnny. I'll take the hot daddy in uniform at 12:11.

R19, is refusing an invitation from the queen something that is just not done? I wonder if they did just to flaunt their ability to say "fuck off" to the most powerful woman in the world.

On a family, human level it was a terrible thing to do to a very old, very ill grandmother.

It's bold to decline an invitation from HM. It must have caused a lot of heads to shake. On the flip side it was probably offered in part so it could be said it was offered and they couldn't whine they weren't included.

Opera is hot for megain, wants to dump gayle.

At least moving to gated Hope Ranch will help them save on security. They must be spending a shit ton to prop their egos.

Is Hope Ranch more expensive than Montecito or less?

^^^^less wayyyyy less

Are they hitting hard times?

r32 Yrs which means they will likely wildly oscillate between trying to suck up to Charles and getting nastier such is their teenage level of inconsistency

Hope Ranch = Hope people will still think we're rich

I could see paying extra for a large lot or particular location, but I don’t understand why anyone wants a 10,000 sq ft house. It’s creepy. No way would you use all the rooms. It just seems lonely. You could have someone living in your house and not even know it!

For a family of 4, I think 4000 sq ft is perfect— and then only if you have people to clean it.

The next podcast has come out. I don't know why anyone would want to listen to this drivel.

Tom Bower’s Revenge is on-sale today in the US.

Megyn Kelly has a live interview with him on Friday on Sirius XM.

I heard that, R36... something about Asian stereotypes in film (way to make friends, Meghan.) Who cares about conversations like that? The knuckle dragging nohopers that make up her constituency couldn't care less. Complaints and backfat solutions, that's what they want to hear about.

I like how Meghan went to a spa with Asian staff and suddenly understood Asian culture while eating noodles. Brilliant! 🤣🙄

Who listens to her podcasts?

From another thread but your smile for the day (or night): BREAKING: Meghan, Duchess of Sussex and Billy Eichner have nominated each other for the Noble Peace Prize

As more information is released and as this whole train-wreck evolves, I'm become more convinced that Meghan is a sociopath.

^^^becoming

That latest picture of them makes her LOOK like a sociopath. He is at least smiling, but she, in trying to look like a "powerful woman" merely looks self-satisfied, angry and vindictive. Rather like she looked on the cover of The Cut.

I tend to agree about the sociopath thing - only because her decisions are so consistently tone deaf, ill-timed and just completely dense - that I hink there must be some kind of underlying disorder that clouds/obfuscates/burns to the ground any clear thinking. That Mandela rejoicing in the street comment in the cut intv? releasing their own remembrance portraits in the graveyard right after the Queen went to lay the wreath? the latest newly released images of her in power red a day after the new fab four pre-funeral pic? her uvalde photo shoot - for which she arrived on a private jet? it has to come from a dark space somewhere.

So, her latest Podcast put the final nail in her Acting in Hollywood coffin. Attack money making movies over 10 years old.

Also, is she now going to claim to be part Asian? Or is she now sprouting the old White Savior of the poor downtrodden identity.

You couldn't make this stuff up. Tone deaf, dumb, patronizing a racial group...

The Douchess of Dumb..

She was so desperate to find a project which she could name after Merchie that she came up with "Archetypes" simply because she felt like people would be reminded of her son and her "charity". But the concept of an actual "Archetype" was something she was too lazy to actually research, so instead of addressing actual "Archtypes" (the warrior, the maiden, the mother, the father, etc) she can only deal in stereotypes.

Archtypes are generally positive, but stereotypes are generally negative. So inevitably, she wades into negative stereotype territory in every episode, and then just says 'said steriotype is a bad thing'. But the topic of stereotypes allows for a constant wallowing in negativity. That may suit her attitude, but it also sets her up to say something stupid and self-indicting in every episode.

Why couldn't she just name it "Meghan" and interview people about THEM? Why? Because she needed to name it after her son, and because she loves negativity so instinctively that she falls into the trap - naming it Archtypes - that she obliviously has set up for herself.

I imagine Quentin Tarantino would have some choice words for her.

I'm guessing that her podcasts are meant to build up her portfolio for what she actually wants ; a network talkshow. Like Ellen, except straight. She believes and wants Hollywood to come to her, not she to them. She wants to sit in a beautiful studio as the fashionable Duchess being all smug like 'I'm at the top of the Hollywood food-chain; Me and this megawatt star in my studio today are equals, and looong-time close friends too! We're just going to give you unfortunates a quick five minutes of our global-stardom lives ....'

She's desperate to control the narrative about her, because that's what the show is really about.

She just might, R49.

I think her problem is that she'd been unsuccessful her whole career. She gets fame on a fluke by marrying Harry. She gets an enormous head and thinks she achieved something. All the bullying she seems to do with underlings: she never had anybody under her orders before. She went from 0 to 100 in the space of a marriage and has no idea what she's doing. And he's too stupid to help her cope with having a much higher profile. I kind of feel sorry for her. She's flailing around trying to invent a 'career' for herself which will make her very rich. She's basically a run-of-the-mill influencer.

If Meghan hadn’t signed an NDA, why did she claim that she was “silenced?”

The fact she KNOWS she did that "sexy" video yet still talks about other women being sexualized just baffles me. Thats a disconnect I just cant seem to comprehend.

Excellent question, r53!

R54 She's dumb. Somebody on Instagram posts old IG posts of hers from before she deleted her account. She loves her Daddy! He's so wonderful. Till he wasn't because she couldn't be seen on the arm of an old, fat, unattractive man at her wedding. What a shit she is.

[quote] I like how Meghan went to a spa with Asian staff and suddenly understood Asian culture while eating noodles.

Yeah, the whole bit about loving other cultures and reducing Asians to Koreans spas and yummy noodles is brilliant. She's tried so hard to position herself as a progressive, but the young progressives would crucify a white man for saying shit like that (and they don't like her, either). The only thing that keeps her from being canceled are her victim identifies: biracial/female/miscarriage/suicidal/bullied/low-class daddy--did I forget any of them?

She didn't have a "voice" too don't forget. Even though she never shuts up!

She's certainly a dickhead. Who will she send snacks and coffee vouchers to next? In exchange for a shout out thanking the the Dookess?

These photos mimicking the poses and clothing of Wallis are borderline hysterical. Or just borderline…

She's turning into a public scold, and that is not a persona that will win over audiences in the long run. She's becoming the kind of person no one wants to sit next to at a party for fear of getting criticized.

In the long run?

If you were a production company contemplating a new talk show host who would you be looking for? Myself, I'd be looking for somebody with positive name recognition. I'd want somebody warm. I'd want somebody co-operative. I'd want somebody reliable. I'd want somebody who wouldn't get me into Ellen and the staff headlines. Or any other bad headlines. I'd want somebody drawing wit and humour from knowledge. I'd want somebody with mass appeal. So the next question is, who fits that bill?

Definitely not Markle, R63.

Hope Ranch sounds like a polygamist compound.

Meghan tried to modernize Montecito but they weren't having it so now she has to flee.

She will be forced to do another interview with Orca to lament how racist, unwelcoming the residents of Montecito are. The Montecito City Council REFUSED to re-write all their Ordinances to suit her and then they tried to muzzle her. She has to leave Montecito for her safety and that of her family. Also, Katy Perry didn't offer her a ride to when they were both going shopping.

Perhaps Hope Ranch will be less racist and more open and welcoming to her BRAND of modernization and kowtow accordingly.

I can't imagine her with the staff of a tv show if she already has a reputation as an abusive tyrant. Americans sue for workplace abuse, unlike well-bred young ladies employed by the British royal family.

She deserves to be ostracized for her bullshit shenanigans. "I was muzzled" Too bad she wasn't to cover that face.

What did she say about Korean spas and noodles? I can’t bring myself to listen to her.

Why on earth would Margaret Cho sign up for her bullshit?

I agree with R[64]. I do think Meghan is pretty though, but I wish she would stop with the phoney act she puts, and just be herself......but, that might not be good either, lol.

R2 No, the Sussex kids have NOT formally been given the style of HRH nor the titles of Prince/Princess. It requires Letters Patent by the King, as when they were born they were only great-grandchildren, not grandchildren, of the Sovereign.

The royal website remains unchanged with regard to how the Sussex children are listed.

My guess is that Charles is waiting on a few things before announcing a decision: how the Sussexes behave (Meghan appears to have taken another little swipe at the monarchy in the Dragon Lady podcast, which is getting the same reviews the first ones did, and lower ratings); how quickly the fallout from the Danish Queen's move dies off; and, possibly, Harry's memoir's content.

And the Sussexes can whistle Dixie whilst they wait for him to decide.

R70 Why? Exposure. Why do you think Serena Williams signed up? She's retired from tennis - she's been a celebrity all her life. Now how is she doing to get headlines that she's accustomed to getting?

Where has Cho's career been the last ten years? How many people know Lisa Ling's name?

It's all transactional, mate, all transactional.

Meghan and Harry are putting a new sign on their lawn: SPARE LIVES MATTER!

Meghan will never be happy living anywhere where she is a small fish in big waters.

She desperately needs to be the big fish in small waters where everyone in neighborhood is in awe of her because she is a rarity.

An upscale neighborhood not yet infested with celebrities. I don't know where that would be but must exist somewhere.

That's what my wealthy relatives did (mobsters actually if I'm being honest). They would buy a lot in a very nice upscale neighborhood that was BELOW their means. Then build an ostentatious monstrosity of a house ten times better than anyone else's. Then everyone in the neighborhood would "oohhh" and "ahhh" over their house and cars as my uncle drove down the street nodding to everyone like he was the Pope.

R72 No, their titles do not require “letters patent” from the King. There’s already a letter’s patent in place, he doesn’t need to issue another one. He is entitled to grant HRH Prince/Princess to his children & grandchildren if he so wishes. All he has to do is say, “Yes”, nothing else.

Where is this report about them planning to move?

R70 Margaret likes attention as much as anybody else. She has wares to hawk.

I want to see Dumbass interview Angelina Jolie on her podcast.

Just for the CRAY factor alone, it would be wonderous.

AJ could rant on and on about Brad Pitt, and how she wasn't a homewrecker for destroying Brad's marriage to Jennifer Aniston. Then she could rant about whatever woman Brad is seeing at the time. Then Dumbass could rant on and on about the horrible racist RF and how Kate wouldn't give her a ride to go shopping, and how no one listens to her when she tried to make money off of being a woke celebrity

[quote]She's turning into a public scold, and that is not a persona that will win over audiences in the long run.

Worked for us!

They didn't scold, they flayed. She flays, if the books are to be believed, but only in private.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

The Harkles ought to have their image next to this definition

LMAO r83, I never heard of that term but it fits

R82 They’d be neighbors with Snoop Dogg, who I maintain is the luckiest person in show business next to Tom Hanks, with the most charmed existence.

Weren't they supposed to have spent their first Thanksgiving / Christmas with Snoop Dog? I distinctly remember reading that.

Snoop Dog has been courting the Hysterical (meant in the Hippocratic/Platonic sense) Harkles, it seems

On Instagram somebody put up a film clip of Markle with her Ma. Markle was speaking to somebody off camera and suddenly Ma interjects something. Markle's head whips around and she stares absolute daggers at her Ma for daring to speak. I bet Ma spends little to no time with her darling daughter.

The only house in California that Meghan would deem acceptable:

Interesting, R88. I think that the only reasons she's kept Doria around is (1) she reminds people that Meghan is biracial, (2) she is presentable looking (thin, in shape) unlike Daddy Markle (who was likely cut off mainly because he didn't look or sound the part of a Duchess' dad) and (3) Doria only speaks when spoken to. Otherwise, it would have been buh-bye Doria a long time ago.

meant *kept Doria around ARE..

Meg should have Helen Lawson on her podcast. The archetype could be “ball-busting bitch.”

“Stop talking about yourself, kid. There’s only one star in a Helen Lawson production and that’s ME, baby!”

The new neighborhood in the hills looks creepy to me.

Sorry if this is already posted.

Near as I can tell, Netflix these days needs one of two things: a product or a refund.

"Shelved" is what I've been predicting from the VERY start of this ENTIRE misadventure.

DM got one thing wrong - no way is Hope Ranch considered more exclusive than Montecito.

Netflix has fucked up more and more. I bet Harry promised them the Queen would just love to be interviewed by her dear grandson for grandson's reality show and they're so dumb they bought it.

[quote] I bet Harry promised them the Queen would just love to be interviewed by her dear grandson for grandson's reality show

I bet when they were dating/engaged Harry also promised Meghan his granny would give them everything under the sun as would Papa Charles. When that didn't come to pass she went into Narc rage overdrive and has been browbeating him about his failure to deliver as promised ever since.

Not just sign up R70 but I read a transcript of this (I cannot bear to listen either) and Margaret is saying something like, "i was just talking about you to someone (i think from Suits) and we were raving about you and praising you to the skies' or something and MM is like "oh thank you I appreciate that so much." it felt like v much like an editorial 'suggestion' from Meghan as in "you can describe me now as making a visceral sound - she's moaning."

I think the only reason Meg has kept Doria around, is that she's the only nanny who won't quit when she's yelled at.

Maybe she's like a hostage - afraid she'll get Tom Markle treatment if she flees. Or maybe she thinks free stuff, what's some more bratty bullshit?

How can you name a hillside community “Hope Ranch?” Isn’t a ranch flat?

According to a poster on LSA, even Meghan's shit about being in the Korean spas with Doria, and eating in their restaurants is fantasy. It turns out that, Per SaintMeghanMarkle reddit sub., there were only two Korean spas in LA in the 1990s. Beverly Hot Springs and Olympic Spa. The latter was 18 and over only, whilst BHS was 14 and over only. Neither had a restaurant.

But if they move, what happens to the Mama and Papa trees? (Will Harry cry on leaving them behind?)

Interesting comment about the production of the podcast. I've never listened to it. It does make you wonder if the guests have any idea where she'll go with her editorial content or what she'll say outside of the interview. Maybe they got bait and switched? ______

Observation about the production and final “flow” of Archetypes.

It seems very obvious as the intro anecdotes and dialogue, along with a lot of the transitional dialogue is recorded either before or after the guest is live on the video chat with Our Saint.

The sound quality changes as does her tone.

I wonder how the guests would react had they heard the whole dialogue that she would say before their interview.

Nobody will remember these podcasts in a year much less a week so I doubt these people care too much what she says. It’s transactional.

^much less a year

Meghan Markle plagiarized the Korean Spa story from Big Mouth.

Damn ! That fucking idiot should crawl into a hole and hide in shame.But we all know she wont. I used to think yall were just being pissy by saying she was mentally ill,but damn if you all didnt make me a believer. There is definitely something wrong with someone so oblivious to truth.

Is her next podcast all about narcissistic sociopaths?

I thought Doria left, so how could she have taken Megsie to a Korean spa?

I had poor self image issues at that age, but the very thought of disrobing in junior high down to panties and a bra in gym class was bad enough. If my mother took me where everyone was naked, I would have been mortified. Shows how tone deaf Meghan is if she thought using this story was a good idea.

How could she afford to go to a spa when she was supposedly eating at a low income salad bar?

She must have staff and producers who research these subjects for her podcasts, right? It’s not a one-woman production team. Where did she find these jokers? Her mother’s yoga class?

I thought there was some conjecture that Doria's senior support company was a washing machine for dirty cash. The Canadian Mansion they had to flee to(dogs snapping at their asses & all) to escape the KKK RF(torches & burning crosses in this shot) was owned by a Russian Oli. & so was Montishitto. Hence, that's why Doria is around.

Doria is the prop Mom. She pulls her off the shelf when she needs to look like she has a relationship with a maternal figure. Their body language is weird, no chemistry at all.

And when she wants everyone to remember she has a black mother.

Hope Ranch is a massive downgrade from Montecito, not an upgrade. I know the area and just from a roster of residents standpoint, Snoop Dog being your most famous is a downgrade. I love Snoop BTW, but if you are looking for status, tier 1/Monarch Beach in Montecito is way nicer.

There are rumors on Instagram (bathtub of salt) that their marriage is all but done, they actually will make some money on the Montecito house b/c of Prince Harry's affiliation, and the Hope Ranch home would be for Meghan alone.

Supposedly Trevity Trev Trev is writing a book.

I thought Trevity was paid something like 250K to refrain from discussing MM.

Yep , done circled the drain and into the sewer, dont lets the rats bite yer ass on the way out harry and psycho .

How could anyone screw up something so bad.

Who has the cash to pay him that?

Markle's either exceptionally stupid or crazy. Does she really think she can tell "personal" stories when she's parroting something she saw in a cartoon? WTF?

I still am surprised the RF approved of their marriage.

Her acting is SO BAD.

If she's such a great "humanitarian," why doesn't she check on her own father?

Meg's failure to adapt to the life of a royal fascinates me. It is possible for a thoroughly middle-class person to make the leap, Kate certainly did it, but Meg couldn't. She just couldn't grasp the Graciousness, she just couldn't behave like someone who was suddenly on top of the social world, and who was aware enough of her new power and status to treat her inferiors with consideration, because a sneer or unkind word from a princess can ruin someone's day, or their career. But she couldn't act like that, she kept acting like some interloper who didn't belong... and eventually made herself into a full-time interloper who didn't belong! Her attitude was a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Yes, it's incredibly difficult to adapt to a new life and new circumstances, but most of us have done it to some degree. It takes a really special and dedicated kind of small-mindedness to not just fail to adapt, but to fail to realize that there's a need to adapt.

If MM cannot offer support to her very ailing 78 year old father, who has suffered both a heart attack and a serious stroke, despite her enormous debt to him and his having reached out to her numerous times, or to her 95 year old in-law who is with her husband on his deathbed, what expectation is there that she would ever behave with decency to anyone?

^ And many of us have had to adapt (and done so successfully) without all the benefits she had being part of the RF.

MM was raised in blue collar California culture.

Sure, , her dad worked in the industry and she went to a run-of-he-mill private school.

But if you don’t know blue collar California culture, it’s incredibly nasty, aggressive, rude, grasping.

She had a MUCH bigger leap to make than Catherine did.

Meghan said she went to a Korean spa. Doesn't mean she necessarily went to one of the two located in Koreatown that were mentioned above. There were others around in other parts of the city. Plus, Korean spas generally allow children in most cities. I actually believe her in this instance. It totally sounds like a place hippie Doria would take a kid.

Plus, in case you've never been to one, these are not spas in the traditional sense. They are very large complexes that can be entered for a fairly nominal fee (especially back then when they weren't as popular). The ones I've been to let their kids run free. Basically, it was free babysitting for Doria. She could dump Meghan and spend her day relaxing.

The real story is that she thinks such spas are representative of Korean-American culture or Asian-American culture in general. Yes, some Asians frequent such spots. Some Asians couldn't tell you what they were. It's like saying all white Americans listen to Jason Aldean and drink Mt. Dew. She outs herself as hopeless backwards.

^ R132 Then ask for help & accept it. People adapt to things in order to survive. How did all the front line workers manage to survive during Covid, going into the belly of the beast everyday?

I'm from low rung working class roots. I've adapted.

Imagine having a shot at being in the RF & having that life. Never having to suck off someone you don't want to, or strap a mattress to your back or climb that greasy bowl, or take a shit squat in the street on camera for Ellen. Think you could adapt??

I was born working class. Grew up on a farm, made the most of educational opportunities to go to college, get a good job, and have a good life.

Here's what I would have done if I were in Dumbass' shoes.

I would have listened when people tried to help me. If there were lessons, I would have paid attention and taken them to heart. I would have been kind to the help. I would have befriended Will and Kate, because they would have been my future husband's closest family. I would ask Kate for help, because she had been there, done that, and lived to tell the tale. I would smile, cut ribbons, and do whatever the "job" held for me, and then go off and do things I wanted to do.

But Prince Dimwit did not pick the kind of girl who would do any of those things. He wanted a sledgehammer to destroy the heart of the RF, and THAT'S the kind of girl he chose. Which is why I don't understand the amount of sympathy for poor Prince Dimwit. He knew exactly what he was doing and why he was doing it. She will destroy him one day and won't think twice about it. And he will deserve it because he knew exactly what kind of girl she was.

Netfix ,must have Fucking delusional,to think Harry and Meghan, were gonna be able to pull the Queen into or any of the BRF, into their documentary. Or, Netflix has money to throw away. I'm interested to see what the book Harry is writing, is gonna say about the rest of the Royals.

You're all assuming she ever wanted to adapt. If Low tells us anything, it's that from the start she acted like a big star nobody wants to work with. She was not there to listen, she was there to tell.

[quote] If she's such a great "humanitarian," why doesn't she check on her own father? —Loving Kindness Senior Care Management

[quote] It takes a really special and dedicated kind of small-mindedness to not just fail to adapt, but to fail to realize that there's a need to adapt.

Speaking of small mindedness, is it due to sheer lack of intelligence or awareness that Markle and people like Angelina Jolie hype themselves as being HUMANITARIANS and treat those humans closest to them like absolute shite?

The blatant lying, hypocrisy and gaslighting is staggering.

^ Guess she suffered from the most damaging off all Hollywoooood MI. Believing you own PR.

If they do divorce, will she plague him like Angelina Jolie plagues Pitt? She won't have anything else to do.

She'll write a book called "Banging on the Drawbridge" with co-author Omid Scobie.

I predict Charles pays him off - and Harry pulls the book entirely

[quote]I predict Charles pays him off - and Harry pulls the book entirely

But wouldn't that be giving in to terrorists?

I think all Charles has to do is withhold titles for the overseas grandchildren who he has no bond with and never will and keep dangling the possibility.

Also, June 3rd has been leaked as date of Coronation. I wonder if that was another integrity test for harry? Charles had one of his assistants inform the overseas duo to keep a certain bogus date open. If the bogus date was made public, they know where it came from.

R143 The Palace has denied the coronation date as sheer speculation.

But it didn't say it was incorrect speculation. I bet they like the symmetry of the June 2nd date, just because for sentimentality. In any event, am sure it will next June.

Receipts R143 for your assertion that "Charles had one of his assistants inform the overseas duo to keep a certain bogus date open."

I think that's probably true. He knows they love to complain and whine so he's kindly giving them loads of time to do it.

Will Coronation be another bank holiday?

R148, can't imagine not.

[quote]Receipts [R143] for your assertion that "Charles had one of his assistants inform the overseas duo to keep a certain bogus date open."

I said "wonder", PR toady @r146.

Typical transparent PR tactic: "Link?" "Proof?" "Receipts?". Lather, rinse, repeat.

Their new PR interns are really bargain-basement quality.

I can't see Charles doing any type of payout unless: 1) Harry shelves that book; and 2) Meghan signs a NDA to keep her mouth shut.

R132, Meghan was not raised in blue collar California, maybe in her lies she did. Her father was an Emmy-award winning lighting direct for a long-running, very popular sitcom. He was making far above a blue collar yearly income. He also won $750k in the lottery, but blew most of it. She went to an expensive Catholic high school and Northwestern University, both of which daddy paid for. They never lived in a blue collar neighborhood.

Meghan's bigger issue was she's American and had no cultural clue as to how Brits act. Even a working class Brit would have a better idea of how to act with the Royal family than she did. All her cultural signposts were upwardly mobile working class and black origins California. In Europe, you meet obnoxious Americans like her all the time. Check out House Hunters International and all those clueless American women irate the kitchen is too small or there aren't any walk-in closets. They think they're enlightening Europeans with their Advance California Culture whereas Europeans just find them obnoxious and provincial.

As for Meghan's plagiarizing the animated series Big Mouth, assuming the role of the little biracial girl in that who goes to a naked Korean spa, seriously, the woman is disturbed.

R152, there was no lottery win. It was something the brother made up to explain why his father was able to front him some money. It was in the Bower book.

R153, Meghan has no "working class" or "black" origins, as these things would have been seen in the U.S.

Ok, R154. Even without the lottery win, anyone who thinks she grew up in a blue collar or working class environment is delusional.

R153, I was aurprised that Lady C in her book said similar things about her cultural cluelessness. Lady C really has almost contempt for Harry's unwillingness to ever set her straight or give her guidance. There were several in the BRF and staff who tried to help and guide her. She wanted none of it. More than being another clueless American, she is a narcissistic sociopath who nevwr planned on staying in the BRF.

Since the negative commentary she received on the internet drove her to feeling suicidal, you'd have thought she would have welcomed the timely counsel she was offered.

"If they do divorce, will she plague him like Angelina Jolie plagues Pitt?"

The "Real Housewives" producers will demand it!

"I was aurprised that Lady C in her book said similar things about her cultural cluelessness. Lady C really has almost contempt for Harry's unwillingness to ever set her straight or give her guidance."

Well, there were several factors there, one was that I suspect Harry had already made up his mind to leave royal life, and married her because she swore that if she were just a bit more famous, she could make a fortune through merching and social media, and Harry wanted a wife with a fortune. Another is that he is an asshole and was sick of royal life, and he probably enjoyed seeing her yell at the snooty courtiers.

But there was also a huge culture shock, and unless an foreigner who married in was a bit of an anglophile, they'd have a hell of a rough time. I am a bit of an Anglophile, enough to know that if the Queen says "If you would be so kind" she means "Fucking get it done", but Meg wasn't an Anglophile, she was an Angeleno whose entire focus was on the film industry (an upper-middle class Angeleno, you idiot). She went from a culture where infinite social and professional mobility was the norm, to one where one could be born into a position and have to live with it, and where certain kinds of social and professional mobility were just Not Done. If Harry enjoyed seeing her go all LA Diva on the courtiers, well, he's 200 kinds of asshole.

Both Markle and Jolie are borderlines. They'll boil a lot of bunnies before this is over.

Meghan had a connection to the California Black community? Since when?

He's suing the Mail (through Associated Newspapers) again or additionally or more or something.

"The others involved in the litigation are the actresses Elizabeth Hurley and Sadie Frost, Elton John’s husband and filmmaker David Furnish, and Doreen Lawrence, the mother of Black teenager Stephen Lawrence who was murdered in a racist attack in 1993.

The individuals had become aware of “highly distressing” evidence revealing they had been victims of breaches of privacy by Associated Newspapers, law firm Hamlins said in a statement.

It said the breaches included placing listening devices inside people’s cars and homes, commissioning the bugging of live, private telephone calls, payment of police officials for sensitive information, and impersonating individuals to obtain medical records."

If so, that's not out of hand, in my view.

I'm not convinced that Meg is a borderline, a sociopath, a Narcissist, or any of the other things the Armchair Haters of the Datalounge have called her. IMHO it's possible, but it's also possible that she's just an asshole, a greedy, ambitious, ruthless asshole, who isn't as bright as she thinks she is and whose reach exceeds her grasp by the circumference of the Earth.

Now Harry is a different story. There's something SERIOUSLY wrong with that guy, but damned if I can put an armchair psychological finger on it.

I would love to be privy to Meghan's official psychiatric diagnosis, were she to be examined. Seriously. She has to be a mass of personality disorders and other conditions.

R76 Yes, in fact, they do. Letters Patent had to be issued by QEII to give William's kids those HRHs. Letters Patent are used to amend previous LPs and the Titles Act of 1917.

The King can "create" his son and heir Prince of Wales - who is already an HRH by birth. But Harry's children were NOT HRHs at birth, any more than William's were.

Because they only became eligible for the HRH years AFTER being born, the King has to confirm their titles with LPs.

What is more, if Charles IS really serious about slimming down the monarchy, and off-setting what will be national dislike of two American children whose parents have for the last three years done nothing but make clear their adversarial relationship with the institution and its King and future King, he would need to make his case either for giving those kids the HRH or withholding it.

He would need LPs to state that case.

Harry and Meghan are intensely disliked in Britain, and neither the BRF nor the British public have any relationship or familiarity with the two nearly invisible Sussex children. The move to allow them the HRHs could go down very badly, especially as people want to see them safely warded off, not coddled.

So Charles, either way, will have to do more than just confirm that, yes, he's fine with the Prince/Princess titles and the HRHs for two kids he has no relationship with, who are being raised in America as Americans, and whose parents have carried out a campaign of damage against the monarchy.

Particularly if he wants to use the Sussex kids as the first examples of that slimmed down monarchy, with a "henceforth, beginning with the current generation of minor grandchildren of the Sovereign, the right to the style and title of HRH Prince/Princess will accrue only to the children of the next heir to the throne . . ." blah blah blah. Charles will need LPs to do that, as it would amount to amending the Titles Act of 1917.

Meghan,

I decline to create, or make any changes to, any titles or styles.

Fondly,

[quote]But if you don’t know blue collar California culture, it’s incredibly nasty, aggressive, rude, grasping.

That's the most absurd statement on Datalounge this entire year. California has 40 million people and it's nothing like that.

R167 As the kids derive their titles from their father, not Meghan, the message would begin: Dear Harry, it is with regret that I inform you . . . blah blah blah.

And if Charles really wanted to thrust the dagger in deeper, he could close with a line borrowed from his cousin, Queen Margrethe:

"in the longer term, you will see that this is really for Archie's and Lilibet's own good."

R166 I am so fucking sick of Americans holding forth on things they know nothing about.

The LP of 1917 made all the children and grandchildren of the monarch HRH Prince/Princess PLUS the eldest son of the eldest son of the Prince of Wales.

This latter would be, you know, GEORGE. He was entitled to be HRH Prince George from birth. But any subsequent children would not be, so this was changed. If the eldest child had been a girl she’d have been (thanks to the change in the rules of primogeniture) the future monarch, but as she wasn’t the eldest son of the eldest son etc she would have been a lower rank than a younger brother, as she’d only be Lady until her grandfather was on the throne.

The LP of 1917 covers the Sussex kids, who are now grandchildren of the monarch, and can be styled that way if Charles says so.

Do you think they issue letters patent every time a kid is born? Obviously not. No letters patent need to be issued for Archie & Lillibet. Fact.

🙄

They don't even need LPs for any time the monarch wants to give or delete HRH designation or princely titles. LPs are just an official way of managing these issues.

The monarch in the UK is the "Fount of all Honour" and as such has full power and control over HRH assignment and prince/princess designation, among other things. He/she only needs to make their wishes clearly known on the matter, either via LP, royal warrant, or simple proclamation either written or verbal. And it is SO.

If Charles doesn't want the Sussex children to be HRHs or prince/princess, he only needs to say so. Tough luck for anyone who disagrees.

I think R170 is mostly right. But wouldn't Charles have to issue an LP to change their titles to something lesser and/or remove their status of prince, since technically they've got it under the existing LP from 1917? The Queen issued a couple of LPs separate from titles, addressing precedence. Seems sensible with all this he will issue some kind of a housekeeping LP to clarify what is what in the new reign.

Whatever the nuance of putting the decision into force, I bet those kids will only get the courtesy titles of the children of a non-royal duke.

Officialdom.

Here are some rumors to mull over.

Why would Charles give those kids any titles? They live in the US, Meghan has made it obvious she has no intention of returning to the UK. Americans don't have titles and they're both American citizens. If he were to give them a title, he should make it contingent on them moving back to the UK and staying there. Or moving to a Commonwealth country. Botswana.

Boy, that Instagram link sure seems to know every last detail.... pass.

R170 I don't give fuck all who you think I am

I made it clear in previous posts on other threads that those LPs put all William's children on an equal footing ESPECIALLY any daughters.

Prince Edward's children were BORN GRANDCHILDREN OF THE SOVEREIGN IN THE MALE LINE, but at their parents choice, used their father's lesser titles. If they chose to avail themselves of the HRH at 18, no LPs would have been needed. Thet really WERE born grandchildren of the Sovereign. In fact, thet always have been HRHs.

But if the kids weren't born grandchildren, but became ones later on, what is expected is a sort of retroactive upgrade. That's at the core of the bloated monarchy Charles allegedly wants to trim: people way down the line who will never represent the monarchy claiming high royal privilege through a technicality.

If Charles wants to withhold what is allegedly rightfully theirs, then he IS going up against the 1917 Titles Act. He'd have to issue Letters Patent that amend the Act to clarify that these kinds of retroactive upgrades for former great-grandchildren will no longer continue - starting with the Sussex kids, whose pumpkin didn't, after all, turn into a coach at 3:10pm on 8 September.

And I would wager a month's pension that that issue, the retroactive one, will be part of Charles' logic if he says No. And if he says NO, he'll have to issue LPs to make it a broader issue to avoid looking like he's punishing just these two kids for their parent's sins.

One of these two has to be that psycho with a bone I tangled with last week. Rolls eyes emoticon. I implore the sane one of you, just give her her way, she will not be told otherwise.

This seems an obvious joke but I don’t recall seeing it before.

R170 This is my last response to you, and after that I'm blocking you.

You're right on one matter: no LPs need to be issued if Charles says YES - but without his YES, it doesn't happen, and that is the difference between them and those who were actually grandchildren of the Sovereign at birth. No one had to issue LPs when William and Harry were born. But the Sussex kids aren't William and Harry: they just became grandchildren etc., well after their births.

So if confirmation is required from the King to MAKE them HRHs, it isn't quite as automatic as it was for the Queen's children, or Charles' children, it it? It may not need LP for the affirmative, but it DOES require something, or that website would have updated within days of the Queen dying. So they aren't ANYTHING OF THE SORT until the King says Yea or Nay.

And if Charles' answer IS No, then he has to justify why he is breaking with the custom outlined in the Titles Act of 1917, and he will need LP for that.

The Sussex kids' HRHs simply aren't on the same natural plane as their father's was. It is obviously a slightly different animal, or it wouldn't require the King's affirmation of the change in their status, and it wouldn't melt away like snow in the springtime if he demurs.

Even the Queen didn't try to take Harry's HRH away; she put it into abeyance, i.e., forbade them to use it: but they still have it. And that's because Harry was born an HRH and she knew quite well what a drastic step it would have taken to deroyalise the next King's son.

Those rumours are mostly hot air. They are based on nothing except people claiming to have "heard" something because they have friends in L.A., or live in L.A., etc.

What happens if Charles ignores the subject altogether? Issues no LP, doesn't discuss it and the Royal Family website isn't updated with prince and princess titles. Do you think that H and M will eventually start using prince and princess titles because (they believe) the kids are technically entitled to it under the 1917 LP?

[quote]I think [R170] is mostly right. But wouldn't Charles have to issue an LP to change their titles to something lesser and/or remove their status of prince, since technically they've got it under the existing LP from 1917? The Queen issued a couple of LPs separate from titles, addressing precedence. Seems sensible with all this he will issue some kind of a housekeeping LP to clarify what is what in the new reign.

King Charles does NOT need to issue a new LP to change the Sussex children's titles (their HRH honorific or princely status/title). See my post at r171, and do your research ('Google is your friend' as the kids say)...It's not necessary. His stated word is all that matters - that's why Archie and Lilibet remain in their current limbo: the BRF official website still lists them as "Master Archie" and "Miss Lilibet". That's it, that's his wish - for now. If he decides to change it, watch that space or watch for an official proclamation.

LPs are more official, of course, and perhaps -recommended- in stick situations such as these to make the situation official, clean and neat. See QEII's LP in 2021 re the Cambridge children - but compare to her 1999 public statement re the Wessex kids, where no LP was issued. BOTH statements had full and official force of the monarch behind them.

[quote]And if Charles' answer IS No, then he has to justify why he is breaking with the custom outlined in the Titles Act of 1917, and he will need LP for that.

NO, he doesn't need an LP for that. He only needs to state his wishes on the matter, and that is the final word as "Fount of All Honour" in the UK...an LP is much more neat, clean, and official granted, and he might decide to go that route to send a strict and clear message to all and sundry re his views on the Sussex grandchildren's titles. But he really doesn't need more justification than his word.

[quote]Even the Queen didn't try to take Harry's HRH away; she put it into abeyance, i.e., forbade them to use it: but they still have it. And that's because Harry was born an HRH and she knew quite well what a drastic step it would have taken to deroyalise the next King's son.

Well, it's debatable that they "still have it". We've discussed this here before: an HRH is not a legal right, it's not the same thing as a surname or last name. It's a "gift" from the sovereign, who controls its designation and use. If QEII instructed H&M not to use the HRH, do they really still have it? IMO, no - they left the UK and BRF, she didn't want them monetizing their royal status so she took it away - temporarily, perhaps, leaving the door open for if they returned to the UK to do BRF work. But again, an HRH is not an automatic right. The monarch giveth, they taketh away, and can giveth back again, as they see fit as many times as they wish.

It's really not that drastic a step to "deroyalise" a royal grandchild. The Swedes just did it, Danish Queen Margrethe did it (to much whining, but still it's done). Again, it's not a legal entitlement or right. It's a gifted privilege.

R183, take your tiara and shove it up your ass, all the way to that hole inside you.

R182 I hope he does just that. The Harkles are doing all they can to force him to give their kids those titles, but hopefully he’ll stay the course. They are in a much weaker position now than they were after their Oprah interview when Meghan equated no title because of racism. Back then, it seemed like some people actually bought that BS. Since then, Meghan has become a global joke who has a very shaky relationship with the truth.

In another Duke of Windsor parallel, Wallis was never granted the all important HRH and the Duke nursed that grievance until the end of his days.

When royals say titles don’t matter, don’t believe’em

These things happen when two people marry for a myriad of selfish reasons, true love being the last thing on their minds, though they'd made the contentious effort to fool many to the contrary, themselves included.

"Hold my hand, Harry, I need you!"

"Ma-ma!"

You title queens can argue back and forth about the LP/entitlements, but royal reporters including Valentine Low and Tom Bower have said that the titles on the succession section of the royal website Cleary state Master Archie and Miss Lilibet and that has not changed while everyone else's titles have! That speaks volumes. It also speaks volumes that Meghan's photo is at the bottom, next to pedophile Prince Andrew and Harry is just above that, now the lowest of the low. Meghan and Harry were bombarding American media with articles right after HMTQ passed away with headlines "Lilibet and Archie are now Princess and Prince!" which did not happen. Remember, and I owe a huge debt of laughter to whoever made "Overseas" happen, but Charles also clearly stated they were "much loved and wish all the best as they build their lives overseas". It doesn't make sense. Maybe if M&H cancel all their projects and lay low, but I think that ship has sailed.

When royals say that titles don't matter, R186, they mean that titles don't matter to anyone... but the royal that holds them.

Meghan's best friend in her younger years leaked some videos of her a few years ago. One of them was Meghan riding around in a sports car and shopping, she was already bossy, spoiled, and entitled back then and nobody would have known she was part black.

The ironic thing is that her father spoiled her and treated her like a princess and look at the thanks he gets now. Harry is a fool to think she won't do the same to him eventually.

And now Harry is suing the Daily Fail. Let's see how that goes.

Meghan did not grow up upper-middle class. Per Tom Markle in "Revenge", he said that their income was very Hollywood in that is was often feast or famine. His finances were more secure with Meghan, hence treating her like a princess, but his income fluctuated up and down. Though much of Meghan's life was spent in the valley, it sounds like they moved around a lot when she was a kid, which gives insight into her current patterns.

I NEVER defended Meghan, but the one thing that I will say is that being a 36 year divorcee, very aggressive, very American actress was never going to gel in either aristocratic circles nor the Royal family. Meghan is a hard worker, but she is not an English Rose like Kate. Her brand of Hollywood bullying and striving in the Royal household probably went over like a lead balloon. The Queen probably felt too guilty after her sister etc, but I am really surprised she approved this union, especially since Meghan was such a cunt well before they were even married. If Meghan had still been her, but looked like Reese Witherspoon, I wonder if they would have kicked her to the curb. Meghan was coming in hot for the staff from the get go: "I know how things work around here. Nobody cares about 'the girlfriend".

"The Queen probably felt too guilty after her sister etc, but I am really surprised she approved this union"

Look, in this day and age, a queen refusing to permit a family member to marry just won't wash, even without the racial issues. Royals are the only people left in the Western world who require the permission of a senior family member to marry, everyone else would be horrified if Queen Liz had tried to forbid the match for any reason short of the potential spouse being not just a Catholic, but a Catholic IRA terrorist. Meg being a foreigner and an asshole just wasn't a good enough reason to court that level of scandal.

Now if it were William, well, perhaps there was negotiation over who he'd be allowed to marry, but if so, it all took place behind closed doors. But with Harry, well, better to let him go ahead and help move the divorce along as quickly as possible.

I disagree with this idea that Meghan was hard working. Several times she left events early when in the BRF and almost every job she had was due to a man’s connections. She was extremely demanding of people and she is a social climber but that doesn’t mean she worked hard. I actually think her downfall is that she is lazy. She couldn’t even do a podcast without help from dozens of people after over a year and Pearl went nowhere. Like she sits around scheming and complaining and spending Harry’s money yelling at people to do things for her, not actually putting herself into producing something.

R188 Instead of boring us all to death with your superior knowledge of royal titles, how about taking 10 minutes to educate yourself about what is a pedophile. As loathsome as he is, having sex with a 17 year old dies not make Andrew a pedophile. Until you can even understand this we can’t take anything else you say seriously.

Did she record all those podcasts in one day? Looks like she is wearing the same outfit.

The title wars are sort of interesting, but the psychological issues they reveal are high ick-factor. You can't respect the theses of anybody who is that invested in being right. In the end, it's not important or anything you want to read when it's plainly a substitute for self-esteem.

I agree with the idea the Queen couldn't have prevented it in this day and age - entitled to or not - and more at the time there was no fair basis upon which to prevent it. At best in the early going there was gut instinct, like if it's true Prince William's advice dimwit should take his time.

But all indications seem to have been the plan was to find ways to support the marriage and make the arrival of the odd actress out a success. By the time the real tiara-wars behaviour emerged, it was too late to turn back without creating another public disaster.

Wouldn't the hope have been - within the rules and customs and precedents - to do as much as could be done to make it success, as challenging as personalities made that hope?

Another another one... adjusts her level of active support...

[quote] Meghan is a hard worker

Hardly. She is deceptive and corrals others to do her work. She is LAZY as all get out. Don’t know Harry, personally, but hear that he is similar.

[quote] I disagree with this idea that Meghan was hard working. Several times she left events early when in the BRF and almost every job she had was due to a man’s connections. She was extremely demanding of people and she is a social climber but that doesn’t mean she worked hard. I actually think her downfall is that she is lazy. She couldn’t even do a podcast without help from dozens of people after over a year and Pearl went nowhere. Like she sits around scheming and complaining and spending Harry’s money yelling at people to do things for her, not actually putting herself into producing something.

Perceptive.

Posted previously (Dangling Tendrils et al), that I knew Markle in the past, and had a family member that encountered her frequently.

Refresh our memory, R201. In what context did you know Ms. Markle?

School, R202.

Markle is "hard working" like a busy 4 yesr old.

R150 'lather rinse repeat' frau wouldn't know a 'PR intern if it bonked her on the head.

How was Meghan able to contain her worst instincts for so long while working on Suits? By all accounts she was always prepared, knew her marks, and never caused any problems. However, she did manage to cajole car service for herself, which is unusual for someone in her position on the call list.

And then we have this...

Nicholl has no insight into the Royal Family and specifically William, other than her feverish imaginings.

Nicholl is a Harry stan. She is the one who published that awful crap about George.

R206, one thing we can say for certain: she's got willpower.

R209 Well, she's tacking in a slightly different direction these days. I won't say she's gone all Let's Go Wales! but she's dialled back the Darling Harry and Meghan meme quite a bit.

As for Charles simply ignoring the titles issue with the Sussexes - I would imagine that at some point, if nothing changes on the web site and there's no announcement, people will begin to ask too often what's up.

Sooner or later, whichever way Charles swings, I think he has to make some sort of public announcement, although at this point in time so much one would have said is not possible has happened, that one day the web site could change without Charles uttering a word.

It wouldn't be the way I'd handle it, but after I turned down the Crown, we're all forced to wait and see.

[quote] However, she did manage to cajole car service for herself, which is unusual for someone in her position on the call list.

She appealed to a specific man who had the authority and capability to bring this about.

Wink. Wink.

Is D.M. moderating comments on all articles about the Duke and Duchess of Perpetual Victimhood because of the lawsuit? They've been moderating for months, have they known about the lawsuit for months?

R213 I haven't seen evidence of moderating as I understand the term on other outlets (like the DM). I haven't put up posts that either never appeared or disappeared. I think DL is likely wearily cutting down the number of threads on the royals, as posters seem unable to respond to pleas by the rest of us not to open new threads on topics being quite adequately covered on other royal threads. But I haven't seen moderating.

Why do you ask?

R192 In addition to the suit he launched against them months ago on not moderating the comments and thus damaging his reputation? Is this a new one? In addition to that DM suit, and the two he's got going against the Home Office - one is requesting Judicial Review of RAVEC's decision not to give him carte blanch 24/7 armed protection like his brother and father have any time he happens to drop in; the other is that the law making it illegal to allow people who can foot the bill for such protection is wrong, and should be changed to allow any Tom Dick and Harry with Big Bucks to pull police off the streets of Britain for their own private use any time they like.

In the Judicial Review case, the judge threw out four of the five causes of action Harry tried to get the decision reviewed on (including his "immediacy" in the line of succession), and just let him go forward with one - that he wasn't informed adequately of the process and the presence of Edward Young, the Queen's personal secretary, on the Committee. I think that comes up shortly this autumn.

I have no idea where the other two cases stand. HarryMarkle wordpress usually knows this stuff. Maybe s/he knows.

It seems like the DM is moderating more of its comments sections, not just those related to royalty.

The two clowns left their mansion for a concert. Harry Smirk is the same as usual.

More photos of the Sussex night out.

In fairness to Charles, he's only been king for a month as of tomorrow. There will be lots of things to decide and this one... the timing needs to be considered in terms of the subsequent tantrums.

I looked up the new lawsuit and it's a group suit, including Elton John and his husband, and some campaigner, accusing the Mail of gross invasions of privacy, including hiring private investigators, placing listening devices in cars, and paying corrupt police officers.

This should be fun.

[quote]Even the Queen didn't try to take Harry's HRH away; she put it into abeyance, i.e., forbade them to use it:

To this day they are still calling themselves "Their Royal Highnesses" on SussexRoyal.com.

Liz Hurley is also on board with the new lawsuit.

I thought SussexRoyal closed down, as they were not allowed to use SussexRoyal, either.

I just went to SussexRoyal. There's nothing there beyond 2020. It still has up shit about the Commonwealth, Community, and is titled the Official Website of the Duke and Duchess of Sussex.

There is nothing past that except the details of the "agreement" that were published in 2020 when the two flounced out - including the use of the word "royal" in their organisation.

Interesting. Liz Hurley preens in a bath suit on D.M. several times per week. I thought she was in cahoots with them not an adversary. They also feature puff pieces on her son regularly which, again, speaks to a mutually beneficial relationship.

All the people involved in the lawsuit are HazBeens:

HazBeen

David Furnish

Elizabeth Hurley

Sadie Frost

Uncle Elton

And most are know for their proximity to someone or something rather than being accomplished in their own spheres.

R225 Yes, interesting - they are either has-beens or got up the ladder by attaching themselves to richer more famous people, except for Harry and Uncle Elton.

Someone on Reddit is speculating that Meghan gatecrashed the concert, thus why they showed up apart.

Meaningless speculation to be sure. In one of the pics from the concert, Harry has his arm around Meghan. On the other hand, in most of the pics he isn't giving her the time of day, does not take any pains to cozy up to her, and spends most of the time talking to what appear to be his friends. Nobody seems to be acknowledging Meghan except for the singer in the straw hat. Again, none of it probably means anything and the pics just captured particularly awkward moments. I don't know, though - I could totally see her showing up to Harry's events uninvited. She's got bunny boiler vibes.

Yeah, you're reaching, R227. I don't like them either but I doubt they gatecrashed, and he's still allowed to talk to other people (although who knows how long that will be tolerated).

I wonder how Sussex Royal never got taken down?

"After listening for almost twenty-five years to the stories my patients tell me about sociopaths who have invaded and injured their lives, when I am asked, “How can I tell whom not to trust?” the answer I give usually surprises people. The natural expectation is that I will describe some sinister-sounding detail of behavior or snippet of body language or threatening use of language that is the subtle giveaway. Instead, I take people aback by assuring them that the tip-off is none of these things, for none of these things is reliably present. Rather, the best clue is, of all things, the pity play. The most reliable sign, the most universal behavior of unscrupulous people is not directed, as one might imagine, at our fearfulness. It is, perversely, an appeal to our sympathy."

-- Martha Stout, The Sociopath Next Door

Sound like anyone?

But R230, plenty of normal people, and regular non-sociopathic assholes go around spreading pity plays wherever they go. Pity playsor a sense of victimhood are not a diagnostic criteria.

There's even a separate category for Passive-Agressive Personality disorder on the DSM-IV, although it seems to have been demoted on the DSM-5.

An excellent book on sociopathy, The Sociopath Next Door, identifies the appeal to pity while continuing to lie as the hallmark of the sociopath.

I wonder if the Snoop Dog and the Harkles use the same delivery service...

"While she has breath in her body, those kids will remain in the States - and therefore Harry will too."

Royal correspondent Valentine Low gives his veredict on how the royal rift with Harry and Meghan might turn out.

Low is vastly overestimating Harry's devotion to those kids. Less fucked up men than Harry leave behind families all the time and start new ones with their second wife.

What's sad is that you know Meghan thinks those kids are a major bargaining chip with both Harry and the BRF. When everything goes south, she'll understand just how easy it will be to prune her and the children with her from the royal consciousness. That's partly because she's made sure of it be ensuring the children have no relationships with the Windsors. How many times has Charles even seen Archie and Lilibet?

Rumors are swirling that the Queen is actually not dead, and that she's been holed up in a seedy LA motel just off the Sunset strip....waiting. Stay away from dark colored Mercedes, Meghan!

What would’ve happened if the late Queen said “no” to Harry about getting married? Would he have sulked? Threatened bodily harm? Go public and throw himself on the mercies of the crowd? Married her without their blessings? Walked away from her?

Easy. The Harkles would have screamed RACISM in every media outlet they could find. The Queen had little choice but to OK the ghastly union.

R338, I think he'd been wanting to leave the BRF for years, so if HM had refused the marriage th en Harry probably have narried without permission anyway. And things would be pretty much the way they are now, except that HM would have looked bad.

Which is why there was no forbidding.

[QUOTE]That's partly because she's made sure of it be ensuring the children have no relationships with the Windsors.

Such a sad MO, but painfully common when one of a couple is a narcissist to such an extreme degree. I predict she'll have not only cut the kids off from the Windsors, but she will actively monitor them and make sure they don't fall under the influence of any other people who aren't up to her "standards." I predict loneliness in their future. Been there, done that with my late mother the narc whom I've written about in these threads. It will be especially bad for Lily who'll be inadequate compared to the little Earl Dumbarton.

R216 anything with a racial angle gets moderated.

In the grand scheme of the BRF, it didn’t really matter who Harry married, so why bother forbidding it? Of course, they hoped he’d find happiness but his wasn’t a dynastic marriage. As soon as Prince George was born, Harry’s value to the institution vanished. They are probably surprised at just how badly things have turned out. I wonder if H&M are surprised that the royal family is not missing them and frankly, are relieved that they’re gone. That’s gotta burn.

Allegedly Harry is father to another child living in North Carolina...

Harry and Meghan could have made themselves very valuable as team players, especially if they'd developed a strong relationship with the Commonwealth nations. Over the course of a decade or so, they could have made their positions unassailable, to the point where the BRF would have had to take them seriously and treat them very well. But neither has shown a talent for the long game.

If the DM did what the lawsuit alleges, they deserve to be taken to court.

All I've got about their concert outing is that they have predictably poor taste in music.

[QUOTE]As soon as Prince George was born, Harry’s value to the institution vanished.

I hadn't thought of this before but does Prince George's birth correlate with Harry's miserable, ne'er do well behavior? He seemed to crush on Kate for a while and they were all matey and pals.. Almost like second string Joachim in Denmark until he wasn't 2nd anymore.

He'd failed to make a niche for himself even with top PR advisors, so as he slid down the ladder of public importance or prominence. And he lashed out on the most public and self-destructive way, just like his equally deluded and self-absorbed mother. The world turns and patterns of "genetically transmitted pain" keep repeating themselves in the doltish of dolts.

Agree, R235. There was a deluge of blind items last week that neigh Harry nor Meghan are into the children. It is said that Harry spends nearly no time with the kids and Meghan only does when there is a nanny present in the background. They are a bargaining chip, but I could see Harry returning to the UK and leaving the kids with Meghan.

"It is said"

We know from social media like Facebook and Instagram that many people use their kids as props. I think they are for Meghan. As for Harry I think he really believes he loves his children but would be happy just seeing them once in awhile.

So Harry was unhappy with Royal life. What did he want to do instead? Did he ever state his desires to, say, learn a trade. Become an accountant? Anything? It's like he stated he was unhappy and expected everyone else to sort it out for him.

I don't think he knows what he actually wants, r251, but he knows that he doesn't want to showing up at events to shake hands and wave. It makes sense that he doesn't know though. He was raised to be a working royal and not necessarily have a career. Also, he's not particularly bright (to put it mildly), so his options are limited. If he were just average citizen Harry Smith, what do you think he would have pursued?

If he were Harry Smith, he couldn't trade on his name and connections to make a living, or whine constantly to the media because no on would care. He also wouldn't have a multimillion pound trust fund. If Harry Windsor had wanted to pursue another career, he more than likely would have been supported. However, Harry Windsor is lazy and entitled in addition to being rather dim.

Harry wants to get high, play video games and be given lots of money for occasionally showing up for events completely arranged by others.

Ginger brat already had a cushy job with phenomenal benefits. He didn't even have to apply for the cushy job, it was a GIVEN at birth. Yet not even that cushy job was cushy enough for the lazy dimwit. He wants to be top dog with all the perks and no responsibility whatsoever. That job doesn't exist for anyone.

He and his harridan are both thin skinned and suffer from the same non-sensical expectations: LOOK AT ME, SPEAK OF ME ONLY IN GLOWING TERMS AT ALL TIMES, LOOK AT ME!! while simultaneously shrieking DON'T LOOK AT ME, STOP LOOKING AT ME, WHY ARE YOU LOOKING AT ME, STOP TALKING ABOUT ME, STOP TALKING ABOUT ME UNLESS IT'S TO ADORE ME, YOU ARE MAKING ME FEEL UNSAFE, I MUST SUE YOU NOW.

They only thing they have succeeded at is making themselves pariahs.

r254 exactly my assessment of him, and he wants to be able to choose which events as well. Oh, and to be held in reverence at all times as well.

R252, if Harty were a regular Joe, he's be the once-popular ex-jock who lives with his father, because he quits any job he gets after a month because his employers expect him to do more but talk about sports while on the clock.

He'd resent the hell out of his dad and stepmother because they're "controlling and toxic" (they have house rules and keep asking him to do chores), and spends most of his days gaming on his parents' TV. Sooner or later he'll be sudeced by online racists, who convince him that the reason he isn't getting the best jobs is "racism against white men", not his own laziness.

He's still going bald, and believes that the one way to straighten out his life is to let a girlfriend fix everything. But the women have lost interest in him...

Good points R257. I agree. Harry is so, well, banal. Just a spoiled oaf. I still think Meghan is personality-disordered. He seems capable of empathy, occasionally. He used to get along with William and Catherine, and able to go along to get along with people.

Her? Never.

It’s tough when you hate your job but can’t bring yourself to leave. I suppose he believed Meghan was rescuing him in that sense. If only they hadn’t been such nasty twats about the whole thing.

Harry and Meg had every right to leave, they just didn't have the right to take the family fortune and perks with them.

And we have every right to snark at their inability to grasp such as simple concept.

I think if Price Harry were just plain old Harry Smith, he would have probably continued on with his military career. It seems like it was the one thing that he was truly passionate about. He also wouldn't have had the coddling and protection on the front lines, so he could do his thing. I have known guys like this. They end up serving their time in the military and either get married, become a police office or take private assignments "overseas" in the Middle East where they act as security for private companies and make a fortune in a high risk, high reward environment. Or he could be your average middle age alcoholic, pot head philander working a 9-5 construction job.

As someone up thread mentioned, I think Harry wanted out of Royal life for a while, but needed a push. If they were being spied on through nefarious means by the media, well then I can understand that he wants his family out of that atmosphere. Who knows, palace aids may have helped make their lives hell, by making shit up, and probably helped facilitate the spying by the DM. I wouldn't want to live under the RF rules either. I have always been interested in the BRF, from the age of 15, and I watched Princess Diane marry PC. I've read quite a few biographies about the Royals too, and I've enjoyed them, however I've always had the feeling, that behind scenes, the Powers that be, can be and are quite ruthless, almost evil (Mary!). I wouldn't put anything past them. They're almost a power unto themselves. Tommy Lascelles, who was the private secretary to the Queen and her her Father King George, as well as Edward VIII, was a Motherfucker and wrote the book on protecting the Monarchy and holding power for himself. The actor in " The Crown" who plays Tommy Lascelles (Pip Torren,), really does bring that Son of a Bitch to life. I'm not saying Harry and Meghan, haven't made some poor decisions, but TPTB, have an agenda too.

R261 Harry’s military career ended because he could not pass the required tests to make it to the next level. Plain Harry Smith might have made it as your basic enlisted recruit but never to the level of the fun stuff like flying Apache helicopters. That was only due to his name and he always had a co-pilot. No one was trusting him with other peoples’s lives in a multi-million dollar war machine.

If Harry were a regular Joe... I think he might have enjoyed military life for a while, and quit when he realized he'd never rise in the ranks, due to being lazy and not too bright. So he'd quit, and never find another job that suited his interests, capabilities, and income expectations, and there he'd be back at R257.

I think the Royal Family has a collective difficulty dealing with emotional problems and mental instability. Harry was showing himself to be damaged goods from childhood. Diana dismissed it, saying he was just an airhead like her. With her death, his emotional issues became more pronounced, and he showed his rebellious nature by acting out. I don't know if he ever had psychiatric care, but I would guess that in a conservative culture like the RF, it would not have been regarded very highly. The traditional attitude would be, buckle up, carry on and eventually you'll get over your troubles And a stint in the military is good for what ails you.

But Harry was indulged and coddled to an exceptional degree, both by Diana and Charles. And the traditional course of action, putting him in the military and then giving him some light responsibilities within the RF, simply didn't work. They probably would have eventually found an appropriate niche for him had he not been appropriated by Markle. She nurtured his hostility toward his family as a way to get control over him.

Where they go from here is anybody's guess

r262 you do realize that Tommy Lascelles was born in 1887, in the middle of Queen Victoria's reign? The era of the evil "grey men" of the Palace pretty much died out by the 1970s, when educated middle-class types and former military aides began to take over the courtier roles around the BRF. Today's 'courtiers' are all highly polished, corporate-reared professionals who try to steer the royals, but are never in full control of them.

Check out today's headline in the DM re the dismissal of Christopher Geidt a few years back. He couldn't hang onto his job, no matter who was in his corner (William, many in govt, etc). Charles and Andrew felt disrespected, so he had to go.

Why would the Daily Mail bother to spy on Sadie Frost and Liz Hurley? Nobody has given a shit about either of them in 20 years. And spying on David Furnish? Why? Sorry, this sounds like bullshit and exactly like the notorious News of the World scandal in the 90s. And the Doreen Lawrence (mother of Stephen Lawrence who was murdered by some racists) inclusion is beyond bizarre as it was the Daily Mail which led a campaign to find and convict her son's murderers.

There are some lawyers getting very rich off this.

Yes R266, I do realize what you've pointed out about the evolution of the "Grey Men" and Tommy Lascelles. I've read about Christopher Geidt, also. They may be more polished corporate types, but they know ALL the secrets and know how to get and keep power. That doesn't mean that eventually, someone making a power play for their job can't bring them down. Like I said Tommy Lascelles, wrote the book on this and I'm sure he's still highly regarded, albeit in a quiet whispering way. Last Christmas my Son ordered a book for me called the "Kings Counsellor" . He had to order it from a person in Great Britain, for some reason we can't get it here. Its the diary of Tommy Lascelles. There's enough in That book to let you know his devotion to The Crown was first nd foremost to him. He hated Edward VIII, and really did not want to be his Private Secretary, but did it as a favor to Mary of Teck. If he was alive now and Secretary to King Charles or the Queen, and using social media, he'd be extremely formidable. He was fascinating to read about. I could go on and on about the groundwork he laid for the "Grey Men" .

R265, the BRF got Diana psychiatric support soon after her honeymoon, the BRF was so worried about her mental state. Harry also attended a lot of therapy, and I believe William did as well. But to do well out of therapy you have to fully engage with the process, and neither Harry nor Diana seemed capable of taking any responsibility for their own unhappiness. Yes, they were sinned against, but they did their fair share of sinning.

The idea that Meghan wouldn't have been given mental health support during her time with the BRF is nonsensical. Even more nonsensical is the idea that her husband, a thirtysomething millionaire, couldn't have simply DRIVEN her to the nearest high-end psychiatric facility if his family didn't help. More victim narrative from the Sussexes.

Tommy Lascelles retired in the early 1950s and died in 1981. He was a man of a different era. There is no telling what kind of palace counsellor he would be these days, because his kind literally no longer exists.

R270, it doesn't take to much imagination to understand that a man like him, in this day and age , would have employed any means to protect the crown. Read about him. He was fascinating and a product of the his era. I'm not in anyway saying he was a good guy. It also not hard to imagine that the people in position around d the Queen and King Charles, would have no problem making Harry's life difficult, just like they did with Princess Diana. Imagine having your Mother be a world wide Icon and then her spectacular death. So many lies and deception in her life as Princess, and I'm sure he thinks about her everyday.

Also, why did two adults need his family to get Meghan help? That makes absolutely no sense. Doesn't Low have something in his book about the reason Meghan went to HR of all places was so there would be a record of it? Anyway, her problems must not have been that severe since all she needed was Harry to hold her to make her all better.

Except r271 many of the "grey men" around the BRF today are middle-class women, like Samantha Cohen, who are deeply respectful of the royals and can be easily cowed by them. Look at the bullying Meghan and Harry got away with, making their staff fearful and nervous all the time.

Yeah, I have serious doubts about her suicidal phase, R272. Narcissists are very rarely suicidal; maybe if they're seriously cornered and there's no way back. I think she was miserable, but the story about being suicidal was 100% to cast the RF as uncaring.

Why is Harry so obsessed with security in Britain, when people didn't even want to shake his hand at the walkabout?

Meghan not getting mental health care was one of absolutely the most ludicrous statements of all her Oprah lies. The Tig was a wellness/lifestyle blog. All she wrote about were things like living your best life, etc. There were those pap shots of Meghan and Harry going into wellness shops in Chelsea when she was pregnant.

Harry is paranoid, not in a nervous way about normal personal security or something, but seriously paranoid out of all relation to circumstances. He also appears not with it at times, like checked out. Both of these moods are excellent opportunities for exploitation by his wife.

Re: Korean Spa: I live near Northwestern University, where M attended school. There is a locally famous Korean spa nearby. Has a restaurant in it. I suspect she went there but fabricated experience to transform it into a mother/daughter thing.

[quote] it doesn't take to much imagination to understand that a man like him, in this day and age , would have employed any means to protect the crown.

Men like Lascelles don't exist in this day and age. A Tommy Lascelles born in 1987 instead of 1887 would be an entirely different person and make entirely different choices. Your viewpoint that Meghan and Harry were little lost lambs surrounded by ravening wolves in grey suits is ridiculous. If anything, THEY are the wolves.

R276 To me it seemed like an attempt at a dog whistle: “I was DENIED ACCESS TO HEALTHCARE, and we all know why.” Obvious and cynical. Just my 2c.

r265 The royal family embraced psychiatric treatment and psychological counselling for Princess Margaret, Princess Diana and Willuam and Harry .You are treating a caricature of the royals as real. Tgw reality is quite different.

r277 Lady Colin Campbell was sniffing strongly again in recent YouTube videos when mentioning Harry and Meghan prompting speculation she was hinting they are both coke heads. Might explain a lot.

She'll get herself sued someday and someday's it looks like she'd deserve it.

r283 She's never lost a legal case yet. Besides she did not SAY they were cokeheads. You can't be sued for sniffing heavily on camera-why do you think she chose to allude to it in that manner? There's lots of things the malicious Harkles could have sued her over but haven't despite having a penchant for legal cases .

Meghan seems like too much of a control freak to allow herself to do drugs. Harry on the other hand...

That's all fine but she's not immune, SA. Nobody is. But don't be so stupid. A skilled lawyer could sniff out the intention behind her theatrical sniffs. Come on.

She should take sips from a can of Coke.

I think MM is a drinker. That explains the weight and intermittent puffiness of her face. Someone at the walkabout said they faintly smelled alcohol on her.

I think it’s pills and alcohol for her.

MM and H being coke heads is not shocking. Wasn't their a BI way back in the day that part of the NYC baby shower was to stock up on a massive amount of blow to fly back on Amal's private jet. I don't really believe it, but I wouldn't be shocked if it were true. There is a photo from when they were dating, leaving the Soho House, and both of them looked coked out (the photo is the first one in the article - look at Meghan and Harry's eyes).

I lived in the UK for three years and it was like the 1980's over there. The coke was everywhere and cheap as hell. I'm going with coke and booze for the both of them.

What I do believe is that Harry starts his day with a long wake and bake in the garden every morning and then stays high all day. That's more recent and tracks with gossip that he has no interest in the children. People like Meghan are too controlling to get fucked up, but I suppose she could use coke feeling like she had a sense of control.

The BRF would have given Meghan any and all support she wanted and needed. People forget that they wanted her to succeed. A mixed-race American-born royal would have been fantastic optics if Meghan just would have played ball. If she'd weathered the early press frenzy, done the work, and gotten along, they would have showered her with support, jewelry, honors, properties. This is the point, in a different timeline, when Harry and Meghan, son and daughter-in-law of the new king, would have started really cashing in. In that timeline, of course, they've just put in four years of great work for the BRF and made themselves beloved and indispensable.

But she made it clear even before the wedding that she was there to grab all she could and GTFO. Wasn't it one of her staff who said that they tried everything to please Meghan and finally realized she didn't WANT to be pleased? She wanted that victim narrative because it's highly marketable.

I do believe all members of the BRF are heavy drinkers, including Wills, Kate Harry, and probably everyone else. Charles and Camilla actually look like heavy drinkers. I was surprised to learn that the Queen enjoyed a cigarette every so often. I thought she was adamantly against it and made Philip quit before the wedding. I wouldn't be surprised if Kate and Wills indulge in a smoke every now and again. Charles built a pub/nightclub at Highgrove for William and Harry when they were in school called "Club H".

The UK has such a heavy drinking culture. They live for drinking pints and smoking outdoors, even when the weather is terrible. I remember trying a few times to keep up with British friends when living in London and it ended badly for me every time. Wine with lunch during a working day is normal.

The Queens daily drinking schedule which is well documented, would have had me floored and hung over, starting with a gin and debonais (sp?) every day before lunch.

^^ A complete pile of shit…

Meghan going to HR to find a psychiatrist for her is such a blatant ploy to get attention. Her husband had been running with his brother and sister-in-law a noteworthy mental health charity for several years and Harry himself had been going to a psychiatrist. He said it was his brother William who advised him to. Why wasn't Meghan going to Harry's psychiatrist? And a native of Los Angeles like Markle wasn't aware how to find a psychiatrist? Of all their bullshit stories, this must be the worst.

Btw, the Tommy Lascelles’ diary/book is available secondhand from Thrift Books for $8.79. He wrote a couple others which are out of print. I guess they didn’t have NDAs back then.

British drinking culture is entirely different. The BRF may be heavy drinkers by American standards, but not British ones.

[quote] British drinking culture is entirely different. The BRF may be heavy drinkers by American standards, but not British ones.

This is true. 5 drinks a day seems like a lot. Everyone handles their booze differently.

Meghan going to HR was her "documenting" her pre-meditated dramatic, headline making grievance. Like any employee trying to build a case against their employer for abuse/racism/harassment the procedure is "document, document, document". Going to someone in the family would have been private, non-official and non-documented. Not that any of it is credible since threatening suicide is a common narcissistic trait, sad but true.

HR is for the employees, and hence why the HR director told Meghan he couldn't help her. I'm sure he was bewildered at being asked about this at all, given the myriad of resources that were already available to her.

R300 yeah, that sounds about right - I bet she filed a lot of complaints with HR when she worked on Suits.

I've always been an dependent contractor until recently, but I have read that HR is really for the employers not the employees. Although this is not relevant , but that would make sense that Meghan would document everything just like Jason Knauff documented her bullying the staff in multiple emails.

R300, I am little slow sometimes. Your explanation just made perfect sense of that manoeuvre. I could never figure out why a member of the family would go to HR. (It's pointless enough for mere mortals.) You make perfect sense. What a cynical move.

I’m British and I agree about our drinking culture. It’s all to do with pubs being such an important part of our social lives…far more significant than American bars are.

But we have much lower rates (proportionally) of alcoholism than America does. So, there’s that.

Visiting London, I was amazed by the crowds of suits spilling out of pubs in the afternoon. Also by how tall the men were.

I'm sure most pregnant women have check-ups once a month at least and the dr would very likely enquire about their emotional state.

I doubt Kate is much of a drinker...the calories!

Claiming she was suicidal when she was pregnant was no doubt in response to the episode of The Crown when Di threw herself down the stairs while pregnant with William. Markle's nothing if not a plagiarist: see the story she plagiarized from a cartoon about a little biracial girl whose mommy takes her to a Korean spa. Markle is the Jumi Bello of reality TV celebs.

r305 However British pubs, clubs and hotel bars and restaurants are increasingly selling alcohol free lager, beer, cider and wine.

Do Brits just have a couple of drinks at the pub after work? Even if done on a daily basis, that probably wouldn't affect you that much.

Can you still smoke cigarettes inside a pub? And if not, is there any country in Europe where you still can?

Control freaks are the BIGGEST coke users of them all.

Borderlines, narcissists and psychopaths are empty inside and are plagued with emptiness and restlessness. They constantly create chaos and drama because of that - and they also treat that horrible feeling of inner nothingness with alcohol and drugs.

It's that missing vital piece - a stable sense of self - that causes all their problems. I've read text books about it (Otto Kernberg) - loosely from memory, they fail to individuate from their mother or other caregiver and continue, like an infant, to see that caregiver as simply a "tool" who has no worth otherwise, Infants grow out of that phase, certainly by 8 or 10 or so. Oddly, the borderline personality types (which includes narcissists and psychopaths) never do.

Sad.

Oh I missed an important part of the theory -- they treat ALL people like tools, because they never individuated. If you're in the sphere, then you are simply an extension of them. They think of you the way you think about your microwave oven. You're happy to use it and you "like" it just fine as long as it does exactly what you want - but if it stops working, you might "hate" it or you might just throw it away.

That's your relationship with a borderline, narcissist or psychopath.

R313 No they do not all use drink and drugs. Where the fuck are people on here coming from with some of this shit talk? Some of you people need to get out more, travel, meet people and get some real life experience instead of talking daft stereotypes.

That's archetypes, you silly ninny.

For R315

People with narcissistic personality disorders share similar traits with addicts, and both types of narcissistic personality disorder may lead to addiction.

Many people with narcissism may also have an addiction to alcohol, sex, drugs, or social media. However, not everyone with narcissism has an addiction and vice versa.

Just read how Meghan wasn't invited to Pippa's wedding and reception and kept forcing her way in so Harry took her to the reception which she wasn't supposed to go to. Then she showed up at a fashion show and demanded to give out an award and pushed Roslyn Pike out who was supposed to present.

Now I wonder if she bullied Harry into proposing? I do think he wanted her but I bet she forced his hand to marry her.

That's how she got away with it with the Royal Family. She acted so far outside their social boundaries they didn't know how to handle it, being polite didn't work with her. And of course they know that she would scream RACIST if they did.

oops that should be Rosamund Pike at r318

Sacha Baron Cohen said there were two groups of people who were so polite, he could get away with any. kind of nonsense (like bringing his poop downstairs in a bag and asking his hostess what to do with it).

Those two groups were people in the Deep South (USA) and the upper classes/aristocracy of Britain.

R318 who goes to a party they weren’t invited to? Meghan, that’s who.

Apparently, Pippa said no plus-ones for anyone (which was a bit of a dick move but maybe did it just to prevent M from attending — if so, I applauded you, Pippa). M and H weren’t married at that point so not invited.

Showing up to an event where you clearly aren’t welcome—it’s a plot line directly from Dynasty.

Other places M not invited that she tried or succeeded to muscle into: Queen’s deathbed; Inslip wedding; UN; polo award ceremony; any/A list events; etc.

"I do believe all members of the BRF are heavy drinkers, including Wills, Kate Harry, and probably everyone else."

I can believe that, except for Will and Kate, who are clearly too fitness-conscious to be drinking that many extra calories. To self-disciplined and image-focused as well, they never slip up the way normal humans do.

But the rest of the BRF, yes! Betcha they drink because they can! And because they're bored.

She told Oprah she begged HR to put her in a psychiatric facility. God, could you imagine the headlines if she'd been admitted? The only thing that would beat the drama would be a car crash in Paris.

There would be no headlines under those circumstances, R324…it would be embargoed, with a court order if necessary. The UK media is actually one of the most regulated in the world.

I don’t believe her stupid HR story anyway. Getting psychiatric help would “look bad for the institution”, but the pregnant wife of the 5th in line dead by suicide wouldn’t?

I’m not sure who is the more stupid…her for telling such a preposterous story or the cretins who believed it.

No, R318, she didn't bully Harry into proposing. Where does this nonsense even come from? I note the Kate-haters have exactly the same belief about Kate bullying William into marrying her. Harry married Meghan because she custom-designed and then sucked him into a psychodrama based on the loss of his mother, who she correctly intuited he wasn't over and would never be over. She set herself up as the woman he *could* save, and he's willingly spent every day since then dutifully trying to save her (and throwing his entire life away in the process).

She's also very pretty - even prettier when they first met, and no one needs to be told how straight men react to attractive women.

Neither of Diana's sons was bullied into marrying anyone except exactly who they wanted.

Also, R326, she swore up and down that if she could just get famous, she could make so much money through merching and social media that they could live like kings, with none of the responsibilities of kings!

And she probably believed it, and is shattered to find out that she was utterly wrong about how being world-famous actually worked. And Harry must be very angry that she's failed in her promise to support him in the style to which he was accustomed, but the psychodrama may still be keeping him around. And the fact that he has no idea what to do with himself, if he doesn't have a commanding officer, a family, or a spouse telling him what to do with his days.

BRF should thank their lucky stars the diabolical duo headed overseas and the inevitable divorce will take place in the U.S.

If they were to split and divorce while in the U.K. there would be no end to the bombs she would detonate during divorce negotiations. Charles was inappropriate with the children! William tried to force himself on me! Kate tried to kill me with the knife I gifted her! Carole Middleton tried to poison me! Camilla took out a hit on me! Charlotte poked Lili in the eye with an ice pick! HR ignored me when I went to them for help when Haz was beating me! No one would be exempt from her accusations except for Andrew for some reason....

It's best for the BRF that they live on a separate continent and have no interaction with her so she can't come up with any new atrocities to accuse them of when it all come tumbling down.

Kim Kardashian was obviously Meghan's role model: influencer fame and merching to the max. But she hasn't managed to emulate Kardashian's inexplicable level of fame.

^ Or her plastic surgeon.

What's ironic to me is that the things H&M seem to enjoy the most - appearing at charity fundraisers and at photo-op events with kids in impoverished places - are the very same things they would have been doing as working royals.

More places where MM pushed her way in...the fashion awards ceremony where she pushed aside the presenter, the ceremony commemorating Charles' investiture as the PoW, Wimbledon before she met Harry,...

R325 You don't think Meghan would leak it? Through Omid or Lainey or any of her other lackeys?

[quote]Charles was inappropriate with the children! William tried to force himself on me! Kate tried to kill me with the knife I gifted her! Carole Middleton tried to poison me! Camilla took out a hit on me! Charlotte poked Lili in the eye with an ice pick! HR ignored me when I went to them for help when Haz was beating me!

Ooohh! These are all good!

Yeah, R331, they're doing the same sort of "charity" and "humanitarian" crap that the Royals do, which is not something that's going to make anyone social media famous! If Harry and Meg really wanted to make money through social media, they'd need to show off their kids and their fabulous Montecito lifestyle, and fabulous social lives.

Which is one of the things that makes me think that Harry is making a lot of their decisions, that he's refusing to let his kids "grow up in a fishbowl" the way he did, because does anyone else think that Meg would keep her kids out of the press and off of social media if there were money to be made by exposing them? She's got an expensive husband to support! And if they wanted to get famous by making "humanitarian" appearances, they'd be more popular if they were out building tiny houses for the homeless or protesting against environmental damage, but I bet Harry won't do either. Those are beneath the dignity of a prince of the blood.

I assume Harry is extremely angry about how everything has turned out, R327. The problem (for him) is that he's never been able to handle his own anger and all he knows how to do is either repress it or channel it in other directions. From everything I've seen/heard from him over the past year or so he is still fully in Meghan's thrall, still her dutiful +1 doing his best to be a good feminist and anti-racist by doing everything she asks (that's how you do it, right?).

His anger is being channeled towards the media, who he falsely holds responsible for his mother's death and now also blames for the terrible situation he's put himself and his young children in re: ditching his family and all that came with being a member of it. It's also being channeled towards his family back in the UK, notably his father. He's probably a very negative, angry person to be around, but I don't think he has the first idea that the one person he should be raging at is the one person he lives in awe/fear of.

It's possible that that Harry is directing some of his anger towards Meghan by now, R336, or the people she hired to make them rich and famous through social media. Harry doesn't seem to have much trouble expressing his anger, except at his mother, which IMHO is the source of most of his mental issues.

But who knows, we're just guessing about the mental states of these people. All we really know is that they know better than to share all their feelings with the public.

You needs glasses r326. Or MUCH higher standards. Meghan doesn't turn any heads, she never did. Look at all her "appearances" before Harry. Look at the people in the background. They are always looking beyond her for the famous, pretty people.

She's infamous not famous r327. That's the problem. Very Kardashian like. Without the minimal talent.

She's a good-looking woman, R338, and before the kids she was pretty enough to turn most straight male heads. Straight men don't have the same standards as an old queen whose standards for objects of beauty are high, they just care if a woman is slim enough and pretty enough to wake up their dicks.

They don't care if a slim pretty woman is an awful person, of course, I've never understood that.

I'm not an old queen. She's not an attractive woman. R340 you don't ever see any straight men going gaga over her, ever. She doesn't get male attention, nor hot men. Look at her dating history. If she actually WERE attractive, she'd have gotten quite a bit further in her "career" than she actually did.

r322 Meghan clearly has major boundaries issues yet paradoxically is very specific and particular about boundaries around her that other people should respect.

That latest concert they attended, in some photos, I got a feeling they weren't as close as they used to be. She kept clasping her hands in front of her in the praying type post (I think he did too? maybe they were applauding) but anyway, something seemed off. In one, he was pointing in her face or at something just past her but his hand was close to her face, but he looked very annoyed at her, I thought.

But maybe I'm projecting - I want him to turn on her - and run back to daddy warbucks. Charlie will bankroll ya, baby, you'd be a fool not to go back home, apologize and then live it up, a la Uncle Andy.

I am an old queen, think she’s an adventuress and a brat, but she is pretty. I would say someone like Gigi Hadid is extremely ordinary looking, but Meghan does have something.

Meghan is an office 8 in a flyover city. She would be considered 'cute' in Miami or other large city compared to models and escorts.

Look at her next to her Suits costars. They look like glamazons next to her and even they aren't the top of the crop in their industry.

This isn't meant to be a slam on Meghan, it just is what it is. Like R338, I don't understand those who make much of her looks. She was nothing, looks wise, in places where it matters.

She's okay. Has definitely made the most of her look (w/ some plastic surgery). She has a nice oval face and pretty features. But there's nothing movie starry about her looks. I think she didn't really make it in Hollywood because most people don't, she's pretty but ordinary, and she can't act her way out of a paper bag. Even her insane ambition and childhood connections couldn't overcome those factors.

I actually think she's the prettiest of the 3 at R345 and I'm no Meghan fan.

I think the one in the middle is the prettiest.

Meghan is pretty, but she wouldn’t turn a head in my city.

I agree with 348. But that's not a great photo. Meghan's eyes look close together there, and I've never noticed that about her in any other pictures.

I’ve said this before on here and people lost their minds, but occasionally Meghan can summon a vulnerable sort of expression that’s very Diana. If I see it, you can be sure Harry did.

R323, When she was single Kate drank a cocktail called “Crack Baby!”

R344, I love Gigi and think she has that something. Markle to me is a dime a dozen. You see better looking women walking down the street.

It's actually shocking to me how anyone can see that pic of the three women and not see Meghan's huge jutting lantern jaw. The close set eyes and huge nose. Her profile is the worst I've ever seen on a woman. I really find her homely. Gina and Sarah are gorgeous, although that's not my favorite pic of Sarah.

[post redacted because independent.co.uk thinks that links to their ridiculous rag are a bad thing. Somebody might want to tell them how the internet works. Or not. We don't really care. They do suck though. Our advice is that you should not click on the link and whatever you do, don't read their truly terrible articles.]

^ Prettiest I've ever seen her. Agree she's one of the worst actresses I've ever scene!

R349 her right eye is positioned slightly lower on her face than her left eye...not quite as wonky as Shailene Woodley's face, but still noticeable.

I think she's pretty but her skin is awful. And she's not really fat but her figure flaws are pretty bad - chicken legs, very thick waist. I'd give her a 6, maybe 7, out of 10. Personality is appalling. I'm surprised she has friends. Maybe fellow users, as long as there's a use. Why on earth did Nacho's friend act like a friend - I think I remember that.

I meant Nacho's WIFE.

Her figure is definitely Spongebob Squarepants, but her face is pretty.

Her face is average on a good day. When she's pictured next to actual good looking women, it really stands out.

I think her face is very pretty, beautiful even (when she and Harry were first dating) but her smug, faux “concern face” ruins the overall effect.

She’s very average in looks, and it took a lot of plastic surgery to get her to average. She was homely before the nose job. I don’t think she’s ugly by any means, but she looks like a million other women walking around in LA, where she would be considered a 5, maybe a 6 on a good day. There is nothing special or remarkable about her visage.

Yes! A 6 on a good day exactly. She's very plain and unremarkable. .very unattractive features.

Weve seen that old haggard black woman (hey,she insists we call her black!) without makeup. It aint pretty. With makeup shes cute,without it she probably looks like Medusa. I bet the first time Harry saw her au naturale he probably thought "WTF".

I'd say she was slightly above average when really thin but her features have gone downhill since she put on the baby weight and never lost it.

The "sparkling spider eyes..."

r343 I would like him to drop her and run home but I want him to have to eat a lot of humble pie when he gets there. He did his family dirty and should receive some punishment.

Harry knows where the bodies are buried from decades back and he would have shared that info with MM. MM has shown herself to be a self-serving liar and has threatened to reveal all.

I wrote earlier that the monarchy was on shaky ground and I stand by it, despite being piled on here. There is a halo effect following the queen's death, and the attractive, blameless Waleses, but the demography of the UK has changed and people are questioning the value of maintaining a white family having possession of unimaginable wealth based on birth alone, especially as their own lives are becoming much more difficult.

So Harry's revelations could be the final nail in the coffin. There are two opposing positions - Keep your friends close an your enemies closer.' (Sun-Tzu); ie, the BRF pays the Sussexes off, into the foreseeable future.

Or - 'We don't negotiate with terrorists. ' JP Getty did not pay his grandson's kidnappers even after they sent him his grandson's ear, because he said that all his other grandchildren would then be at risk.

Stay tuned!

In my wildest fan fiction moments, I like to believe that Harry was truly in love with Catherine and, bitter with unrequited love, he married the one woman who could do the most damage to the BRF. I think the longer Meghan spent around the BRF the more she herself realized Harry loved Catherine and even if she is using him, she still wants to be his number one. Harry has always drifted towards Catherine. The one meme of Meghan glaring at Catherine on a walkabout? The original video shows Harry following Catherine to shake hands and Meghan, alone on the the other side, sees it and crosses over. Even at the recent Windsor walkabout, Harry stood next to Kate initially and then had to return back to Meghan.

It's fun to think about, simply because the two (H&K) had so much chemistry in their photos together.

This always stood out to me in their engagement interview:

I: What was it like introducing Meghan to your father and your brother? Prince Harry: What was it like? It was exciting I mean I've - you know I'd been seeing her for a period of time when I - literally didn't tell anybody at all. And then William was longing to meet her and so was Catherine. So, you know, being our neighbors we managed to get that in a couple of - well quite a few times now and Catherine has been absolutely ... Meghan Markle: She's been wonderful. Prince Harry: ... amazing

Harry knows no secrets r368, he was shocked when fake Greta told him he was related to the Romanovs. He has the attention span of a gnat and his sole concern seems to be keeping his own position above his Uncles and Aunt.

Haz doesn't have any historical secrets to share but he certainly has had personal conversations with family where they have confided their opinions, beliefs and personal problems. He has no scruples and will exploit and embellish those personal conversations. i.e. "William said he hoped Camilla would die in a grease fire." "William said Catherine was the safe and sensible choice but he will always love Jecca". And since Mike Tindall called him a bellend, I'm sure the Tindalls can expect some kind of jab in the book along the lines of: "I comforted dear cousin Zara when she was distraught over Mike's extracurricular activities..." I can only imagine how he will contort what Charles has said or done over the years. "On many occasions I observed Papa laughing with glee as he counted his money from the Duchy".

^ And so, there you go..how appropriate is QEII, even from the grave.."Recollections may vary." This will continue to make him look like a whiny, ball-less teenager.

Meghan's looks have been done to death here, as have Kate's and Camilla's.

The topic that's far meatier for mining is the emotional and psychological bonfire on display, especially in Harry.

It's Harry's psychological damage and issues that anchor this extraordinary saga being played out on the Coliseum of the global media.

What Harry has needed, the only thing that would free him to "move on", is for someone to have persuaded him that it is all right to be angry at Diana, and to find to get to a point where he can forgive his father for being human. William has clearly been able to do both.

Meghan gets ptd of attention, but, in reality, she's a a minor player in Harry's Sophockean drama.

Her presence this high up on the call sheet (at last!) Is solely the result of Harry's inability to "move on". Bit it's illusory: she's the adjunct: Harry is the real protagonist.

Greek tragedy set the form for everything we see today in playwriting: protagonist, antagonist, hubris, catharsis, inevitability, et al. All of that is present here, and the public recognize it even if they don't call it that. And for those who keep asking Why?! In exasperation, that's why.

Moving out is not the damevad moving on.

Had Harry ever moved beyond acting out his central drama around Diana and Charles, Meghan would be today a forgotten D-list actress.

And, at least to me, that's where the fascination in this story lies.

Not the endless trivia about Meghan's bird legs or Kate's thinness or the fact that at 75, Camilla, most amazingly, looks it, instead of looking the way, say, Honor Blackman did at that age.

Just saying.

^*Sophoclean drama

Apologies for the other typos.

Except that Harry is too dull witted and uninteresting to be the center of this play. Megs is the spark. She’s the one driving the bus over a cliff.

R374 William was probably able to do that because Diana leeched onto him when he was a child and turned him into her ersatz partner .

The worst thing that coukd happen is for the red faced whinger to "go back" to the BRF. I wish the Harkles stay together forever; their infrequent direct embarrassments are worth his absence. Leave the UK out of it and carry on their dull suburban existence

R376 I disagree. Meghan is the puppet of Harry's demons. If she's driving the bus over the cliff, she'll also be his demons' victim, because she'll end up at the bottom of the ravine, too.

None of this would have been possible if Harry had gotten help that really "helped". Meghan is a known quantity. But who Harry really would have been if he had thrown off the past is anyone's guess.

I agree that he's fundamentally stupid, unexceptional, and tedious. But so was, say, Prince Henry, Duke of Gloucester, Harry's great-Uncle. But unlike the current Henry, the other ducal Henry led a placed, wealthy, privileged life, married a spectacularly splendid wife, and died making no waves at all, leaving children who seem to have gotten on quite well as increasingly lower tiered royal. His son, Richard, Duke of Gloucester, and his Danish wife, Brigitte, seem also to have led a decently happy family life. They aren't particularly interesting, either.

It is, precisely, that so stormy a drama should have arisen around yet another boring, slightly dimwitted, second-tier royal: and that only happens when seriously destructive emotional forces at work - the fire that destroys everything in its path.

Meghan may be the front, but the real fire is in Harry's hopelessly toxic mental state.

His book should be titled "Recollections May Harry."

What gives you the idea that Harry wants to get better? Railing against all the injustices and slights he’s endured seems to be his only reason for being. What does he have without them?

Harry and Meghan should be kissing the ground.

Lady C. claims she is "reliably informed" that Meghan has written William a letter suggesting that when he is in Boston in December he come to California to work things out.

Also, supposedly Harry has suggested to Pa Charles he will accept cash in lieu of titles for his kids.

"In my wildest fan fiction moments, I like to believe that Harry was truly in love with Catherine and, bitter with unrequited love, he married the one woman who could do the most damage to the BRF. "

Sometimes straight men will take a sexual interest in a woman who is attached to a man they envy, it's the straight male way to deal with "Single White Female" feelings. If Harry was mooning after Katherine it could be because he saw her as a way to even the score with William, and I presume she had enough sense to keep him at a brotherly distance.

And I still think that he married her because she promised to support him through famewhoring, but yeah, I think he enjoyed pitting her against the royals and courtiers, and watching the fur fly. But IMHO he didn't marry her just for that, he married her because she was going to help him leave royal life.

"[R376] I disagree. Meghan is the puppet of Harry's demons."

I agree, R379, a lot of people want to blame Meg for everything, but IMHO Harry is driving the bus while Meghan is leaning out the window and yelling, the marriage is really all about his needs. His need to leave royal life, his need to live like a king, his "mental health", his need to avoid any work or responsibility, which is why Meghan is the one out there hustling to earn enough money to support their lifestyle, while Harry likes around and plays games.

And his need for privacy, do you think Meg wouldn't put every little thing that they and the kids do on social media if she were really running the show? She would, that's how celebrities make money out of social media, and the only reason she wouldn't is if Harry forbade her to make a show of their private lives and their kids. Of course he'd expect her to earn millions when he gives her nothing to work with, it's her problem how she does it.

True, r385. She's out there doing her stupid podcast but at least she's trying to put some work in. What's he doing?

R383

[quote]...that Meghan has written William a letter suggesting that when he is in Boston in December he come to California to work things out.

Right. William should go to them.

As if.

The Harkles want to show off the Montecito house, before they have to sell it.

Well if it wasnt for her neanderthal forehead and close set beady eyes , she might have been beautiful.

Agree about the eyes, R389, but Neanderthal forehead? Her forehead is perfectly proportioned to her face and is neither small or big.

R368, could you cite something other than your own wish fulfilment?

"Lady" CC is a worthless grasping cunt. Don't believe any of it

Gasping, surely?

It does raise the question: how does she manage to know something new and exciting with such regularity?

CC has a gigantic dart board lined with various twitter themes, and pops off one or two for her daily Breaking News.

Hazbo's PR in here predicting the coming push of the monarchy into the abyss as a result of Mr. Markle's memoirs

Charles' coronation will be on Archie's birthday and Meg's loopy fans are freaking out.

Don't bust my balls if this is already posted, I did a search, bitches!

How is it cruel to hold the coronation on the child's birthday? Or are they that desperate and stupid?

R398, because Archie is the "true king." No kidding, I actually saw a tweet that said that.

I'm kind of glad those are the kind of people that back her. You get what you pay for.

I thought the podcast was supposed to be a joint exercise. Instead it’s just Megs.

R385 - in other words, Meghan and Harry are Yoko and John.

R383, Thanks for that reference to the latest Lady C item about the "letter".

Lady C laughed when talking about this tale, pointing out that, of course, requesting the Prince and Princess of Wales travel across the country to "work things out" would have resulted in drawing attention from the true reason for Will & Kate's trip to the US - The Earthshot Prize.

The whole idea, whether true or not, is preposterous.

[quote]...that Meghan has written William a letter suggesting that when he is in Boston in December he come to California to work things out.

Now that is hilarious. Meghan seems unable to grasp that she and her gelded husband simply don't exist to William any longer. The Harkles have achieved a "Not our kind, dear" status within the BRF.

Imagine sitting down with Meghan and Harry and listening to their word-salad!

LMFAO! How is Archie's birthday going to help disadvantaged people? Sewage squad is just embarrassing at this point.

Kerry Kennedy is an idiot giving those two an award with Alec Baldwin as the emcee. Read the room.

R394, Harry and Meghan have such well-established patterns that it’s easy to speculate about what they might be doing—you’ll have a good chance of being right. We know that Meghan likes to write long, self-serving letters. Her foundational myth is that Proctor & Gamble letter. What are the odds she *didn’t* write to William and Catherine about how “this conflict is breaking my heart and I just want peace between us”?

More like she would write a letter offering a small window of time for W&C to grovel and beg for her forgiveness.

William makes me hot at 3:03... yikes.

Kerry Kennedy's been hitting the sauce again.

She also writes letters to Charles and William because she knows the letters will be archived as standard procedure. She can then refer to the letters as "proof" she tried to work things out but those two meanies just weren't amenable.

Never happened. It's all flimsy PR

The Harkles have purchased another award!

I think Harry is circumcised. There was a blown up photo of he and Meghan walking at the Queens funeral. He was wearing a navy suit, he "dresses" to the right and your could see his head through his pants.

That would be appropriate since he now has his head wedged permanently up his ass

He's a bellend.

R414 perhaps they circumcised him when they surgically descended his testicles or whatever it was that was wrong with his balls when he was a kid.

In that official video of the funeral, the most I saw of Meghan was perhaps her right hand. Great job, editors!

I don't think Tina Brown has the clout and contacts she used to have. Her last book was far less well researched than the first one, andvshe wascstill making nice noises about what an asset to the family Harry still could be.

The Harkles cannot "trade" anything for titles. They have no control over this whatsoever.

Either the King grants them or he doesn't. If this absurd notion has any legs, what they're really saying is that if C3 gives them a big cheque, they'll pretend publicly it's at their request because they're so invested in equality, instead of screaming RACISM!!!!!

As it is, on its face, the story is ludicrous. Charles holds all the cards here, they hold none.

Lady C is also blowing smoke up our arses.

The memoir is going forward, C3 is obviously reluctant to dole out those titles at the moment, and I doubt C3 is too eager to bail his moron of a son out of the hole that Harry dug himself into.

Just when you thought their crap PR couldn't get any crappier, it does!

R419 I agree about Tina, the book was mostly her clever stylish observations, fun to read but I didn’t learn anything new. And of course she was careful, doesn’t want to get canceled.

R407 and then leaks that she wrote the letter so W/K look like assholes for not meeting with them.

Yep! Straight from the Meghan playbook….like when she write that letter to her father with the direct intent of leaking it to curry world sympathy. She’s quite a piece of work.

Don’t these people have two young kids? That’s a handful, if you are doing it right. It doesn’t leave time for these middle-school-level shenanigans.

Really? I'd be surprised if either of them spent as much as five hours a week with those kids. Meghan in particular seems about as warm and maternal as Cinderella's stepmother.

Two young kids aren't a handful if you have nannies.

Or at least a live-in grandmother, who fills in when the nannies quit.

That grandmother doesn't live there. While M&H were plotting their revenge in Europe and spending 3 weeks away from the treasured tots, Meghan's Ma was photographed roaming around LA with her pitbull. Apparently, she didn't raise Meghan - her Pa did - and she ain't raising this bunch either. Her lack of maternal care for Meghan might be at the origin of Meghan's borderline personality disorder.

But she’s so “dignified.”

R426, Meghan's a sociopath.

Consistent behavior patterns in sociopaths include:

Lack of empathy for others

Impulsive behavior

Attempting to control others with threats or aggression

Using intelligence, charm, or charisma to manipulate others

Not learning from mistakes or punishment

Lying for personal gain

Showing a tendency to physical violence and fights

Generally superficial relationships

Sometimes, stealing or committing other crimes

Threatening suicide to manipulate without intention to act

Sometimes, abusing drugs or alcohol

Trouble with responsibilities such as a job, paying bills, etc.

Meghan Markle wants to ‘rubbish Royal Family’ as Sussexes ‘stuck with the devil’ over Netflix and book deals. Royal biographer Tom Bower believes the pair 'need the money' from the deals because they have 'no other source of income'.

I think this is going on with Meghan and Harry now (from Quora, an academic expert on Narcissism named Virginia Stein, posted Oct 2):

"What makes a narcissist re-idealize you?" Her answer:

"IDEALIZATION HAPPENS ONCE

Here's the difference.

When you first meet a narcissist, the narcissist will idealize you because they actually think they're in love.

Narcissists confuse infatuation and lust for love.

Which is pretty much the closest they'll ever come to loving someone.

A new person validating and gratifying them, is the best supply a narcissist can get.

It regulates their self-esteem tremendously.

That's because that new person mirrors to the narcissist, the picture of “themselves” they need to see in order to be at peace with themselves and maintain their delusions. This picture is, of course, perfection.

That's what that person believes the narcissist is, perfect. Like we all once believed.

That potent supply is what infatuates the narcissist and convinces them, that they found their ideal mate (again).

The narcissist then starts idealizing that person, burdening them with several unrealistic expectations.

Now, for the “fake” idealization.

When the new partner fails to live up to the narcissists unrealistic expectations, devaluation commences.

The narcissist decides that they made a mistake, the partner isn't their ideal mate, the partner conned them into the relationship.

From then on, the narcissist will start resenting the partner and looking for other/better supply sources.

There's no turning back from this, the partner's supply will gradually turn worse, for several different reasons. One being familiarity (boredom).

The partner will never be able to turn back to a person that's yet to know the narcissist and believes they're perfect.

And the narcissist will never again get their self-esteem regulated by that partner, like the partner did at first.

Infatuation, for the narcissist, isn't possible anymore.

However, manipulation is. The narcissist knowing that the partner yearns for attention and affection from them, will use “fake” idealization whenever they feel that it would be beneficial for them to do so.

It's entirely possible that t Harry is he one with the Cluster B personality disorder. He's a mess, but at not the kind of oversharing mess who it away.

Note on the above - all psychopaths are also narcissists, but not all narcissists are psychopaths.

I think the addition of a lot of sadism - and also not giving a damn what other people think of them - are the only extra traits of the psychopath. (though narcissists can be sadistic and even murderous - but I think if they still care what other people think about them, they're not all the way to psychopath.)

There's basically a spectrum of Cluster B - borderline on the milder end, narcissist in the middle, psychopath at the far extreme.

Oh dear....here we go again.

Meghan Markle hits out at Hollywood for 'crazy, hot' female stereotypes.

Wow, she is sure angry at Hollywood, Who knew? Actually, is there anyone she isn't angry at?

2 thoughts come to mind about her latest whine & me, me fest.. 1. she will never work in that town again. 2. No one who she wants to hang out with or have their respect will ever talk to her in private or about anything.

Yes, she thinks she's hitting that Gloria Steinem, MS. when actually its miss as in that's what most people will be giving her, as they take a hard left away from her.

Classic . "You wont play with me so I hate you!" . Now shes going to try and drag Hollywood ? Oh this will be rich !

You really can't make a lot of money being angry, whining, and annoying. It wears thin pretty quickly.

My mom used to tell my sister, no one likes a nag & a scold..It also makes you look old.

Because she failed badly at them? Becoming a hugely hypocritical and entirely laughable female scold after shooting her very own shitscale BBQ temptress wench?

This is only the back end of a shoot laughable from her first "sashsay" and her horrid "wares."

R434, I didn’t see that coming, either, but maybe everything she’s done has just been a giant scheme to punish Hollywood for not bowing down to her greatness when it had the chance. She was going to sweep back to California armed with a specter and a tiara and force them make her their Queen.

Rumor had it that after the wedding, she expected to go back to acting, and she expected to be offered A-list Oscar-bait roles and top dollar! No more C-list crap for a world-famous duchess!

Of course that didn't happen, people who are famous for being famous can't vanish into character, and she should have known that. Hollywood knew it if she didn't, and of course she still resents them for it.

She was no Princess Grace. Grace was a movie star, while the best Meghan would do was Suits. She was offered the role of a lifetime and threw it away, and she'll spend the rest of her life chasing the narcissistic high of her (second) wedding day.

Meghan is trying to channel Aimee Semple McPherson. Well, at least she's working, unlike a certain himbo I could mention...

I you can't bear to watch her, River does a great sendup of the podcast, starting at about minute 15. He's great as a mimic! Someone said his Diana is really good. He doesn't look like Meghan (he does favor Diana) - but he nails her ludicrous dramatic expression.

Oh, my goodness! I totally forgot that freak, whatever his name is. He and "Lady" Colin Campbell really do need to get together, ASAP!

So this ‘podcast’ of hers is just basically bitching for an hour? Is there any other topic other than herself?

R440 I remember that. I believe she thought she would be Marvel movies' next big female superhero.

Anybody think they're considering her for Gamori, Shuri, or the one that might just fit - Black Widow ?

* Gamora - not Gamori

Even very successful actresses experience a career slowdown after 40. Meghan was never that successful. She's had all the acting career she's going to have unless she does Real Housewives or something.

Harry and Meghan's brand is 100% negative. Good luck with that.

Someone on Reddit posted a clip of a scene from a movie she was in. Sitting at a bar, meeting a guy. It was painful to watch. Her hands were fluttering all over the place, exaggerated facial expressions, fussing with her hair. Total amateur.

The cringe.....

Yikes!!!^^^…

R448 Ding ding ding. That's it exactly. They have nothing to offer except grievance. Granted there is a dreary market for that these days, but it's a crowded field.

[quote]Even very successful actresses experience a career slowdown after 40.

Plus they have be truly talented. The pickings get slimmer and slimmer and pretty pack the punch it used to. I have seen nothing to suggest she could carry a substantial dramatic role and at this point she's so famous she couldn't disappear into the part. Fair to say it's probably one of those cases where it is more about being a star than being an actress?

So infamous. She's infamous not famous.

There will never be a final interview, book, or documentary that will purge the poison from Harry's soul. There comes a point when confronting your past becomes wallowing in it, and he's reached that point.

[quote] There will never be a final interview, book, or documentary that will purge the poison from Harry's soul. There comes a point when confronting your past becomes wallowing in it, and he's reached that point.

Point well taken.

Some said the OPRAH SHOW OF AIRING GRIEVANCES AND LIES was going to be the final word on bombing everyone. Instead, it’s all that Megs and Haz do now. This IS their brand. They’ve gone from inflammatory to tiresome.

And they come across as grifting, pathetic, liars in the process. Further, anyone who willingly associates with them now - given all their deceit and accusations - are suspect. The list is ever growing: Oprah, Gayle, Tyler Perry, Kerry Kennedy, Serena, Mariah (boo hiss🙁), Mindy Kaling, Lisa Ling, Constance Wu, Jenny Slate, Nacho and Delfina, etc. etc......TBD

I admit, I am surprised. I didn't think she was genius IQ or anything, but I imagined she had the shrewdness and even imagination enough to actually produce something that wasn't just the victim orgy. I mean, him, you don't expect much except scowls and ill timed farts. I thought she had somewhat more going on.

I always knew she was dim too. Her social media was gold.

The difference between them, R457, is that he knows he's pretty dumb, while she's convinced that she is brilliant.

I had a boss years ago who would say "If can't dazzle them with your brilliance, then baffle them with your bullshit." Meghan is baffling us with her never ending bullshit.

Her personality sucks, in the Craig Ferguson interview she is trying to be charming but failing.

R4611 Her flirting is cringeworthy.

I thought she seemed high as a kite.

[quote] The list is ever growing: Oprah, Gayle, Tyler Perry, Kerry Kennedy, Serena, Mariah (boo hiss🙁), Mindy Kaling, Lisa Ling, Constance Wu, Jenny Slate, Nacho and Delfina, etc. etc......TBD

What's interesting is that Jenny Slate was the voice behind the mixed race character, Missy, the girl in the Big Mouth cartoon on Netflix. Missy was the character who may or may not have been Meghan's Korean Spa inspo. Also, we'll see if she brings this up, but Jenny Slate cancelled herself during the summer of 2020 hysteria b/c the character was black and Jewish, Slate representing the Jewish half (she's Jewish). She gave the voice to a black actress and there was all this backlash against it. I hope Meghan dives deep into that.

Sometimes, R461, I see something in Meghan that makes me think I understand how individuals could initially find her compelling. That Craig Ferguson interview, though, is truly cringeworthy. She is anti-charming in her appearance there, and you can feel that Ferguson doesn't like her and isn't buying it. She's self-conscious when there's an audience, whereas she's confident when dealing with certain individuals - usually straight men. Harry is artless and probably didn't bother to hide his reaction, which only made her more confident and able to pull off her act.

Did Sunshine Sachs really dump her? Tbe PR I see is exactly tbe same lying bullshit we've seen all along. Meg, you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, dear.

With all due respect, I don't understand the fascination with what PR firms celebrities use or the PR firms' activities.

R467, the manipulation of public perception and the whole process of how PR works is, in and of itself, interesting, at least to some people. It’s a recurring theme in Meghan and Harry’s story because they seem to be almost purely the creation of PR. They are both known to obsessed with how they appear in the media.

I watched a bit of the Craig Ferguson interview for a bit. She's very hyper and tries too hard, but she is a good looking woman.

Yeah, R467. The Harkles have pulled back the curtain and revealed the PR sham involved with celebrities. They are a blatant example of the manipulation of public perception and seeing their antics has been an education into the machinations behind the scenes.

Between Harvey Weinstein and Meg and Haz’s unethical actions, the land of celebritydom is fading. Attempts by Sunshine Sachs to prop them up are distasteful and becoming ever more transparent.

Could she have worn anything skimpier for her Craig Ferguson appearance? I can practically see her cooch!

Meghan is queen of the not so humble brag, ugh

She tries so hard to be sexy. Obviously, that’s the opposite of sexy.

It’s so bizarre because “cute” is obviously more her look. Her character on “Suits” was more smart/classy. But Meghan seems to be trying to sell “sex kitten,” which just doesn’t work.

Maybe she is great in bed.

You need glasses r469. She's always been fug.

Another one that finds Markle unattractive: both inside and out.

R469 here, she 's someone I'm glad I never met as I can't do anything for her, so I can imagine how I'd be treated. Just because she's an ugly person inside doesn't mean she's ugly on the outside. She's got skinny legs and no waist, but her face can be very attractive.

R476 You have a low standard of beauty, dear. She’s completely and utterly average. Her nose job did wonders for making her ethnically ambiguous but it’s failing and needs a revision. Skin is awful in real life, eyes are beady. At her peak, she needed a ton of help to be “attractive.”

She's a 5 on a good day.

They do a LOT of photoshopping on her R476, and she looks decent. I see untouched pics from the same event where she is decidedly frumpy with gobs of makeup. At this point Markle has an almost exclusive tabloid persona anyway.

Meghan is attractive. Not beautiful, not stunning, not even pretty unless carefully made-up and shot, but attractive. If she were also a kind and trustworthy person, her looks would be more than passable by most people's standards. But she is neither of those things.

Markel was scary at the Queen's funeral, cold and hard. She couldn't plaster on her fake bucky beaver grin, so had to go to default, her truel demeanor.

[quote] but her face can be very attractive.

Really? Have you seen her skin? The filled-in face? The shark eyes? The plastered, fake grin?

Eww

The old queen who's bitching about "low standards of beauty" and calling Meg "ordinary" has never actually looked at ordinary women. Meg was lovely compared to an ordinary woman of her age, at least before she had the kids. She's still above average.

A horrible person, but good-looking enough to interest a straight horn dimwitted like Harry

Her face is homely. She has awful skin and misshapen features. She looks much older than other actresses and women her age. She's been well below average her entire life, hence the pathological jealousy. Harry would fuck anything. Not to mention it was all a set up. She's as ordinary as they come. You need higher standards.

My favorite Meghan quote from the latest podcast: "I want to like feel so deeply it's like an Adele album..."

She was definitely an affirmative action admission. Omg.

And the rumor mill (marklenews) had someone who said she was an ex college roommate at Northwestern - said Meghan was kicked out of school during her senior year (academic reasons) but also kicked out of her sorority and had to go through some sort of ceremony to de-sister her, or some such.

She's an 11 if you're stoned!

[QUOTE]said Meghan was kicked out of school during her senior year (academic reasons)

She may have been kicked out of her sorority, but she appeared on Northwestern's graduation program. I find it hard to believe that a student who has managed to get through six semesters is going to develop academic problems serious enough for dismissal senior year.

"The rumor mill, "I read on Twitter, "Lady C said...

Meghan is "really cute" by suburban standards. By Hollywood standards, she's ordinary.

R483 I’m the old queen you’re mentioning, although I’m not old. Unlike you, I don’t use a flyoveristan Walmart as a yardstick of what an ordinary woman is. In LA, where Meghan is from, there are women in the most ordinary places that are beautiful. I can go to any suburban mall and I can guarantee I will find a hot Latina or delicate Asian or Cali blonde that is 10x prettier than that hag Markle. Fuck, I attended my niece’s graduation and her guidance counselor was breathtaking. I actually did a double take. My waitress at my local Thai restaurant is good looking. Markle would have withered in front of these types.

You must live in a shitty suburb with homely women r491. She's ordinary period.

Would second what R492 says. There is a reason Markle did not go over well in in Los Angeles. She knew this, hence her odd choice to live in smaller-pond Toronto even though (initially) her husband lived in LA.

While other Suits cast members returned to LA when off from filming; Markle hung around smaller Toronto.

Imagine her wrath upon returning to make it big in LA as the duchess of sussex; and failing miserably.

Having those kids fucked her looks up permanently. I concede she was passably pretty,but never Hollywood pretty. You see better looking women waiting tables there.

Markle was pushing 40 and had never made it in Hollywood, so she never would. I think she thought marrying Harry and finally getting famous would translate into Hollywood A+ list status and she could finally get revenge on all the people who had snubbed her.

That's why she's attacking all the old shows. You can bet they all passed on her once.

did she actually put out an announcement after the wedding that she was only open to receiving scripts with A list directors attached?

^ All this snark at Hollywood. How to make friends & influence people?? WTH is she thinking? Does she piss off everyone everywhere she shows up. Pissed off no tjust the RF, but the peeps of the the UK(RACISSSTS!!) The peeps of Canada..Pay for my security so they pop out to get me a coffee. Now Hollywood..You couldn't make this up with 2 hands. A-mazing!!

Yep, R497, the podcast series is basically Markle’s Continued Revenge and Grievances for all those she believes did not cater to her adequately.

The podcast series is a farce and has ensnared others under false pretences. Mariah? Lisa Ling?

Spotify was absolutely idiotic to sign her on.

Now look askance at all who participate in this travesty.

R497

[quote] That's why she's attacking all the old shows.

I think I missed this.

Can you explain or link?

Thanks.

Any Pr or agent worth their salt will tell a client steer clear. The stank of her comments will cling to them as well. Industry bashing never works out well.

R501, in her podcast Meghan focuses on “stereotypes” in works such as Kill Bill, How I Met Your Mother, and Scrubs — all oddly dated references. People thought that she might be trying to settle scores against casting directors or producers who had offended her in the past.

Thanks, R503.

R503 that sounds likely - maybe she got an audition and didn't get a job

She exerts so much effort thinking she is - or trying to convince the audience anyway - actually interested in the “things that hold women back”. Yet, the more we learn about her, the “thing” that held Meghan back pre-Harry is lack of talent and charisma.

Meghan is the 3rd prettiest girl in a mid sized office. Her shockingly shitty body brings her down from that. She’s not ugly at all but she is not particularly pretty.

The thing with Markle is there is no There there. She spends so much time, energy and money in an attempt to create a façade: really a mirage of an image she wishes to craft. When others fail to acknowledge the false mask, she insists on cramming it down everyone’s throats. That really puts people off and as they back away and deny her inauthenticity, she becomes furious. Then she becomes vengeful. That’s the stage she is entering to a majority of the population: her family, the monarchy, the British press, the British populace, Canadian taxpayers, the insightful Aussies, Hollywood, LA society, Montecito, US senatorial women, the UN, and so on.

She is, as the BRF staff who worked for her noted, a “narcissistic sociopath.”

Those lacking in perception and morality follow and support her, but with her increasingly vile antics, she is alienating more and more individuals.

The thing I've begun to notice is how MM uses a passive way of referring to her feelings.

For example, rather than saying "I felt..." she would say "I was made to feel...".

Which is a complete reverse of that "powerful" woman she likes to call herself. It's a way of referring to herself as a victim.

Not taking ownership of herself. Rather like she is a leaf blowing in the wind, at the complete mercy of others.

But, of course, with a podcast.

Agreed, R509, that's a great observation. Being sneaky as fuck in that way might actually be her one talent. Not really because it's such a skill but because she's correctly intuited that most people aren't like her, most people aren't listening to others from a place of suspicion and defensiveness. So when she uses slippery language she knows the vast majority just won't pick up on it.

Meghan is a typical arrested development millennial cunt who takes no responsibility for anything.

Responsibility is her husband’s domain. She’s just here to whine and shit out babies.

So what you're saying, R508, is that MM believes her own bullshit and gets angry when others don't?

When someone is fully aware that they are trying to deceive or con people, they are mentally normal, just secretive or predatory. People who truly believe their own false narrative are more or less crazy.

You girls are so mean about her looks, to a rabid extent. She’s a troublemaker but she’s very pretty, uniquely so.

[quote] So what you're saying, [R508], is that MM believes her own bullshit and gets angry when others don't?

Do believe that Markle believes in her façade on a SUPERFICIAL level. She has to hustle to maintain her preferred image. She wants to buy it, that’s why she’s obsessed with demanding everyone else do so. But microexpressions and her word salad give her insecurities away. So on a less conscious level, she does not believe what she is peddling and she appears contradictory as R509 observes.

[quote] You girls are so mean about her looks, to a rabid extent. She’s a troublemaker but she’s very pretty, uniquely so.

Not rabid. The woman is unattractive.

“Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.”

“Beauty is skin deep.”

Markle is pathological and ugly;in many respects: skin, orange-tint(like Trump), odd body habitus with back fat, skinny legs, foul feet, demon knees, broad shoulders, ill-proportioned trunk, ravages of filler and facial plastic surgery, and sun/cigarette-damaged skin.

She photographs very ugly most of the time.

Can we just drop the debate about whether she's pretty? It's fucking boring, and there's no real answer because beauty is subjective and individual perceptions may vary.

I'm going to shut up about it myself now, and I beg you all to do the same. Especially that one guy who jumps in to heap abuse on her looks every time anyone says something about her looks that isn't hateful, and who repeats himself every damn time. Yes, YOU, bitch, you've made your point, you don't need to make it another hundred times.

Meghan did the most with what she had but she is aging badly. The photos of her in Dusseldorf outside in the full sun were shocking. Her skin is ashy, bags under her eyes, wrinkled forehead, and dry coarse hair. The outfit, one of the most atrocious she's ever worn, didn't help.

When she's fully done up with expert makeup, the hair relaxing is fresh, and a professional photographer shoots the picture using every technique in the book, she looks good.

But when she's unable to control those images and the unfiltered light of day comes close, she looks every bit a.middle-woman of indifferent attractions who can't pull it off anymore, but who thinks she can.

That's why the outfit in Dusseldorf was such a disaster: she dressed the way she used to look and thinks she looks now. Only she doesn't.

It's a form of body dysmorphia and evidence of how badly Meghan is out of touch with reality.

Kate looks better because she dresses for the body she has, and for the position she really does occupy.

It's not so much one prettier than the other, but one connected to the reality of her body and persona, and one that isn't.

Meghan is still trying to graft a grand identity onto a persona she isn't and a position she doesn't, and it shows.

Kate has not had to graft anything onto herself. Her clothes are not always to my taste, but they're never inauthentic or grandiose nor do they ever look like she borrowed them from someone who looks nothing like her.

That's what's so curious, and at times even disturbing, about Meghan's public appearances.

Yep, r518, the most obvious case in point would be the red Carolina Herrera gown which was designed for someone with a bust and no backfat. That it was worn to a sombre event for veterans was quite astounding. She looked both inappropriate and appallingly bad.

The dress worn to the Lion King event was straining at the seams and extremely unflattering.

Some people do not have any exceptional features but are well groomed and well put together therefore they appear attractive and make an appealing presentation. In my opinion, Jen Anniston doesn't have any particularly outstanding facial features but she is in great shape and very well groomed and styled for her body type therefore looks attractive.

Meghan does not have any above average features, even her eyes are rather mean looking. Her horrendous grooming and styling coupled with her grasping inauthentic manner just makes her off-putting physically and energetically.

Catherine dresses and conducts herself like old money even though she isn't old money. Meghan dresses and conducts herself like a gaudy lottery winner. That ostentatious brown evening gown she wore in the engagement photo while Haz wore a day suit is indicative of my point.

Meghan seems oddly mentally stuck in the late 90s/early 00s. Her cultural references in her podcast, her worship of Oprah, etc. It's as if she got frozen at age 18-22 and hasn't developed at all since then. Harry also suffers from arrested development, which might explain their mutual attraction and their increasingly stupid decisions.

God help Archie and Lilibet.

MM's need to hurt the RF for not acknowledging how very special she is and not giving her what she wanted (half in) is indeed pathological. The fact that she was ready and willing to spew lie after obvious lie to do it shows how out of touch/control she is. Her continued behavior shows she hasn't learned a single thing

^We noticed.

There really isn’t a good side to choose. Everyone involved (except Queen Elizabeth) are total assholes.

The system itself is a huge problem. One child by definition is outrageously favored over any sibling(s.)

With careful thought and planning, this “spare syndrome” could be overcome. But Charles didn’t even do the bare minimum as a parent, much less anything extra.

That said, Harry needs to become his own man. He’s trying to do that, I think, but it’s not going well.

Meghan is not helpful. She seems to be a grifter and not terribly bright or sophisticated. I can’t fathom why Harry would think she’d n me are a good parent.

They need to stop trying to cultivate an image and just figure out what they enjoy and do more of that.

The problem is, I don’t think Meghan enjoys anything besides posing for selfies and posting on social media. I know some 40-something mothers like this, and they are exhausting. Lots of “look at me, look at me” posing for pictures, but never getting much done.

As this crowd gets a little older, it will be interesting to see if they broaden their horizons. I have a family member who’s a 40-year-old mother of a four-year-old. Four years into being a parent, and she’s still as juvenile as ever.

Or the other way to look at it - William has had very little say in the direction of his life. His role was chosen for him at birth. By contrast, Harry had a lot more freedom to pursue his interests. And he has chosen to do what, exactly?

Harry has had everything necessary to find his way: education, friends, money, staff, celebrity and fawning press. Charles may not have been the best father, but, particularly by upper class standards, he wasn’t the worst. Harry is virtually middle-aged. He can’t keep complaining about epaulettes forever, can he?

I guess we’re going to find out.

Harry will engage in Dead Mommy Porn till the day he dies.

For whatever the reason, whether of her making or not.. she many an instance of chaos & pain. She had so little peace while alive...

Shout out to Hazy, LET YOUR MOTHER REST IN PEACE, FFS YOU DOLT!

[quote]He can’t keep complaining about epaulettes forever, can he?

Oh, honey....

R521 yeah, Meghan's definitely stuck back in the 90s when she was in her 20s. She doesn't seem to have advanced any since then. The Oprah worship, etc. Hell, Oprah hasn't been relevant since she tried to claim Obama got elected thanks to her and Michelle gave her the coldest shoulder in the history of cold shoulders.

Oh yes: the engagement photo dress that cost GBP75K? Exactly where could she have worn that again, in public? Also, a maternity ballgown that cost over GBP100K ...MM really acted like she'd won the lottery with wardrobe choices like that. No wonder she and Harry are/were so adamant about half in, half out...who could walk away from a GBP1M+ wardrobe for only 70 something engagements in an 18 month period?

And then there was the badly fitted Givenchy wedding dress and the caped Kermit green outfit for their final Commonwealth service...

And does anyone really think Archie greets two palm trees as though they are his parents?

The caped green costume she wore to the Commonwealth service made her look like she should be standing in front of a supermarket selling Thin Mints, Samoas and Tagalongs.

Don't forget the sexy black dress, smokey eye and bedroom hair she wore to that memorial service in a church. r519 Teresa May was giving her the side eye.

I hope it's true what I read somewhere - that she was aware the women were supposed to wear red, white or blue t the Commonwealth service, because it's the perfect example of her "You don't tell me what the fuck to do!" attitude, like a child throwing a tantrum.

R531 - that made me laugh, but that context is too innocent and sweet for Meghan. The combination of Meghan's bleak soul and the caped costume with beret get-up befit a Roger Stone sidekick role. Or she could have been Dominque Devereux catfighting opposite Joan Collins.

I would bet that Archie sees those two palm trees a lot more often than he sees his parents

She looks great in blue, and blue is such a safe color. Why doesn’t she wear it more often?

R526 etc., Harry has every right to be furious about the workings of royal primogeniture, which really is monumentally unfair, and which is done for the benefit of the family wealth and power. Giving the whole ball of wax to the eldest son keeps the family fortune intact over generations, and the royal family are even more ruthless than most aristocrats about pushing all the girls and spares down into the middle class, because the royals have to answer to the public. So yes, Harry got the short end of the family stick, but then, in any system that had a shred of meritocracy in it, he'd have gotten an even shorter end.

So I totally support his decision to leave royal life, but that doesn't mean I want to hear him whine about it. Dude, you got a better deal from your birth family than 99.9999999999999999% of humans, at some point you just need to accept that life isn't fair and try to find what happiness you can in an unfair world. Been there, done that, and my family is a lot worse than yours.

I still think one of the worst was the Oscar de la Renta print dress she wore to a wedding of one of Harry's cousins. This was early on.

And the thing she wore on her head looked like a toilet paper holder.

One must see video to really appreciate how bad her wardrobe choices were that day...

"Oh yes: the engagement photo dress that cost GBP75K? Exactly where could she have worn that again, in public? Also, a maternity ballgown that cost over GBP100K ...MM really acted like she'd won the lottery with wardrobe choices like that."

Bbbbbbuutttt - "I can't believe I'm not being paid for this."

R538 That was the wedding of one of Jane's daughters, I believe, the middle Spencer sister, and it was very shortly after the Sussex wedding.

The howls were so bad that de la Renta, which had initially put photos up on their website of Meghan wearing the dress, swiftly took it down when the realised how terrible she made it look.

It went down in history as the de la Renta Tablecloth Dress. It ran around ten grand at the time, and, of course, was never seen again.

Except for that horrible outfit she wore to the mosque in Morocco or wherever, the de la Renta stands alone even in Meghan's psychotic closet.

At least the Oscar de la Renta was pretty and would have worked if Meghan were six inches taller. The Ralph & Russo evening gown was just ugly from the baby poo shade of brown to the fronds cupping her bosoms. Worn in the afternoon in a garden setting as her betrothed wore a day suit. How many eye rolls did her look elicit from the crew?

I love that at the wedding she was confident enough to not even bother fixing her hair for the event,

Never mind her hair at the wedding, look at the hair coming out of the scarf at the mosque. She didn't even have the decency to put it up and drape the headscarf over it. It looks so unkempt that it was an insult to the mosque itself. She looked like she couldn't be bothered to take any especial care. The colour of the dress is nightmarish, she's bursting out at the bosom, and the think scarf looks like something she'd wear on a very cold day to the market.

What the fuck? Hair up? Graceful filmy headcovering? Muted colour dress that fit properly and didn't call attention to her huge postnatal tits?!

Kate visiting a mosque.

^thick (not think) scarf

She’s an absolute joke. Her fashions (or lack, thereof). Her word salad of meaningless platitudes. Her continual whingeing. Her bizarre accusations. Her vengeful diatribes.

Enough.

Already.

I think you’re all being too harsh about the mosque dress. Anyone can see that the thrifty duchess had it fashioned from a tarpaulin. When it’s not being worn on royal engagements, it can do double duty as a canopy for a tent, or as a car cover when you’re not going to be driving for a while. Clever duchess!

As for the green getup at the Commonwealth service, insiders tell me it was part of a secret audition for the role of the Green Goblin in Spider-Man. Watch your back, Willem Dafoe!

For the love of all thats holy,wont one of you bitches send that bitch a fucking steamer ??? What is it with her and wrinkled clothing ???

I agree with almost everything you said, R537, except the bit about pushing down surplus royals into the middle class. People like Anne, Andrew, Sarah Chatto, Zara Tindall, do not lead anything close to middle-class lifestyles.

R547 Doncha remember? Gan Gan sent them a waffle iron.

R540 That mosque visit in that hideous dress was in South Africa. The dress was the color of diarrhea, made out of cheap parachute nylon. And don’t get me started on the ratty, mangy hair extensions! I bet aides suggested a different look, but Meghan is ALWAYS RIGHT. This was also when a local family hosted the Suxxeses for tea. They had such a lavish and inviting spread, all homemade on their best dishes. She refused to eat a single bite. Rude cunt! Ugly on the outside and the inside.

[quote] Ugly on the outside and inside.

Oh, R550, we can’t say anything that is less than fawning with praise regarding Markle’s appearance. R517 finds her to be gloriously attractive, and we must now all refrain from stating how ugly Markle actually is.

Because R517 finds her to be SO VERY PRETTY. Just like Meghan, R517 demands we cease saying anything untoward in regards to Meghan Markle: especially as relates to her appearance. All because R517 finds her “pretty”, don’tcha know?

She probably thinks they're all dirty third world poors - thus the dress, to "fit in" - and refusing to touch their food.

Who's gross and ignorant is Meghan Markle.

[quote]we can’t say anything that is less than fawning with praise regarding Markle’s appearance.

No one's saying this. I think what R517 was saying (and correct me if I'm wrong, 517), is that the ugly vs pretty argument is uninteresting because everyone has their own opinion and it is what it is. There's nothing there to discuss beyond "I think she's fug" vs "I think she's pretty" vs "I think she pretty most of the time but fug when the wind blows from the northwest" etc. It's in the eye of the beholder, as someone else said, there's nothing there to get our teeth into.

What we can get our teeth into is, for example, that behaviour in S Africa when she refused to even take a single bite of the spread those people laid on for her. That was so bad it's one of the things i remember from so long ago. She also fully snubbed all those women at the market in Fiji, who said they'd spent weeks preparing for her visit and were very excited to meet her. If Meghan didn't have a black mother, she would have been rightly condemned for that behaviour. Kate would have been. M uses her small percentage of blackness as a shield against criticism and she deserves to be called out for it.

r550 She also used the mosque visit as an opportunity to debut her butt pads...

Find it ironic, R553, that R517 labels posters “hateful” while the very behaviour MM demonstrates is “hateful”.

Your examples of her actions are one small portion of her “hateful” behaviour that compose the larger mosaic of innumerable acts that have managed to alienate millions of individuals.

She manages to shame, blame, bully, accuse and lie about family, friends, staff, institutions and whole populations. MM has become infamous for these “hateful” interactions.

And yet, R517 complains about the speck in others’ eyes here while having a blindfold blinding his own.

Perhaps MM and R517 are kindred spirits?

MM will never be remotely attractive because she's thoroughly rotten on the inside.

R517 here, and did I strike a nerve with you bitches or what!

At least I got everyone to stop arguing about whether Meg is pretty or not, which was a pathetically boring subject, what is the point of arguing over a completely subjective question where there is no right or wrong answer. Let's get back to picking apart every little thing they do and calling Harry an idiot, like proper Dataloungers!

[quote] This was also when a local family hosted the Suxxeses for tea. They had such a lavish and inviting spread, all homemade on their best dishes. She refused to eat a single bite.

I missed this!

This was SA?

Anyone have a link?

I KNOW NOTHING. Will this be Harry's strategy when his memoir is released.

[quote]I KNOW NOTHING. Will this be Harry's strategy when his memoir is released.

So he plans to take a page out of tRump's playbook? Fake news! I don't know that person, never met them! Typical malignant narcissitic tactic: I didn't do or say that, YOU DID!

The media and observers have given Harry too many free passes as has him family in the past. He is narcissist just like her. If he wasn't, he would be rebelling in some manner by now. He is complicit and they are two peas in a pod, both narcissists and damaged beyond repair.

Also, should could have been polite and had some of the food prepared for her and then being the seasoned hollywood actress she is, thrown it up afterwards.

Meghan had enough ambition to want a better life but not enough smarts to understand she needed to study other people to know how to act in her new circumstances. It’s the curse of what I call irrational self-esteem.

She sort of has. Have you seen all those photographs with her dressed exactly like Diana, even down to facial expressions? Narcissists do mimic others because they don't really know how to be honest and authentic. It's the core of what's wrong with them - emotionally, they're children playing dress-up (with a vindictive, jealous streak because... well, they're mad at the world for not catering to their every need and propping up their grandiose false self - do NOT challenge them or they might throw a cup of tea at you! or a hamburger, in Trump's case)

Sad.

Studying how someone LOOKS is not the same as studying how to act.

And I daresay long-dead and crazy-in-life Diana would have been a bad template for learning how to act in 21st century BRF.

Sophie would have been a good role model. But I think even if Meghan did everything “right” she still would have always been an outsider because she’s not English. Autumn (Canadian?) apparently did everything right and she still wasn’t really accepted.

[quote]the Suxxeses

This should be the official spelling of it.

Seriously? You expect me to eat this shit? Seriously?

IT WASN'T VEGAN!!!! AND YOU EXPECTED ME TO EAT THAT SHIT???

r563 Where did you hear that Autumn was never really accepted because she is Canadian? One of the Duke of Kents daughter in laws is Canadian and she is very well intergreted into the royal extended family and royal circles?

R565 OMG, she's got the mosque dress on in that photo!!!!!!!!!!!!

It's a miracle anyone at the table could eat for being queasy

"Sophie would have been a good role model."

For someone who wanted to become the perfect "hard-working" royal, yes. But neither she nor Harry wanted that.

She wanted to be a top international celebrity, and Harry wanted her to piss of his family and then use her celebrity to support him in style.

They have the GQ awards coming up next month on the 16th, and they are due to go back to the UK for it, so we have that to look forward to. It's to "honor her years of charity work" (ha!) This also means we will be treated to a PR push from House Sussex soon enough. After that we have the EarthShot awards in NYC on Dec 2nd for William, and Kate, and that weird Robert F. Kennedy award on Dec 6th they "received" that is set to take place around the same time. You better get your favorite snack foods, because we are in for a real treat. I can't wait to see what theatrics, and stunts Harry, and Meghan cook up to try outshine the rest of the family.

If I know Meghan, she's not going to pick her outfit until she sees with her own eyes what Kate is wearing in December. Naturally she will do her darned best to knock it out of the park with her own special spin on it. I just hope this time she's not trying to channel Wallis Simpson again. I wonder if she's going to show up in the UK, or accept via a prerecorded message from her garden. If they don't show up, we are going to have to assume, they were told not come back.

I don’t understand why they keep getting awards. Can someone involved in philanthropy explain It? Does it raise $$ for the organization to give these fools awards? Honestly, seems all they do is travel the world collecting awards.

I was just reading about how the guy who plays Kendal on Succession created a phony award at Yale when he was a student just to lure Al Pacino to the school and it almost bankrupted the theater program it was so costly.

I can understand a theater program wanting to entice Al Pacino,but what’s in it for the RFK award to honor these losers? I can’t imagine it would trigger donations or positive press.

They give $$$ for these awards. Pay to play!!

Everyone knows it. Haven't you notice all the A listers they appear with.

R572 so they donate $$ to get awards? How do you suppose they go about that— call the awards people and tell them they’ll give them $1 million in exchange for the award? Honestly, I’m fascinated by how this works.

And what are they doing with all these awards? Do they actually give them any real legitimacy? Do they generate donations to their ridiculous foundation? Or are they paying for awards as a desperate play for attention? (I just answered my own question.)

These awards they have gotten are mostly just fake charity type things given out for publicity and a fee. The rfk "award" contact person has a sunshine sachs email. That's how.

I simply can't imagine how the got the RFK award!

They should have their own awards show. The HazMat Awards.

How many people had heard of the RFK Human Rights foundation before it was announced that they were giving the Sussexes an award? And how many had heard about it after it was announced?

That's your answer, R571.

These dumb fucking fools have not been at this "charity" grift but a few years yet insist on arranging award after award as if they have decades of experience. What is more, they haven't done a damned thing but show up and pose for pictures, then swiftly make their exit with one excuse after another. You can bet that whatever they "donate" didn't come out of their own pockets. These two clowns are beyond repugnant with what they will do to create an image that never existed and never will exist. Are people that stupid that they believe this bullshit?

Since they parted ways with Sunshine Sachs who arranged them with all these “awards”, It’s going to be interesting to see how they manage to get things like this going forward. It doesn’t take a genius with a Northwestern communications degree, to predict that whatever they do get is going to be more and more obscure, and random.

The Marty Finkelstein Medal of Achievement!

Sam’s Club Unsung Heroes Award for Outstanding Contribution to Contributing!

The Key to The City of Texarkana! Featuring welcome banquet, and bake sale!

Unless it’s someone or something desperate for publicity , I can’t imagine going forward Harry & Meghan are going to be doing anything other than selling stories that are becoming more and more irrelevant.

How is it that they still are accepting awards? Aren’t they supposed to meet up with the Wales after they pick up an award in NY? What’s that for? Is it supposed to lend credence to a new awards program? Are they being used sell tickets to the event?

[quote] Aren’t they supposed to meet up with the Wales

Don't hold your breath.

New thread, since we are almost to the end of this one.

The GQ Awards. Those are better than the Nobel Prizes, yeah?

My copy of Courtiers just arrived. I ordered it from the UK so talk to ya later!

No, the Susseces are not " meeting up" with the Waleses, ever.

Meghan has become a topic of scorn.

This chick is hilarious, R586. Since she looks so much like Meghan and has an awesome sense of humor, Harry should have married her.

Harry is so weird constantly talking about his kids but not showing them, linked below you can see him talking to a WellChild family

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

The DM comments on that article are pretty funny. People feel sorry for his “emotional support” dogs with him and Meghan always whining. Also how he says Lilibet is “finding her voice” using some kind of PC language instead of just saying she is talking.

Finding Her Voice could also be code for wailing or throwing screaming fits.

In all fairness to Prince Dum-Dum, he probably hears Meghan use that expression so much that he thinks it just means "speaking."

Courtiers update: get it! It's a well written, interesting book. Far less salacious than you'd expect based on the serialization... but even the less scandalous parts are interesting and well told. Many interesting bits but overall you realize how wildly inaccurate The Crown is and I'm left wondering why the writer chose to jazz it up when the real story could have been just as interesting. For example, Margaret and Townsend: Low writes the real opposition was most intense from within government, followed by Lascelles (who was not the snake the script made him, though no teddy bear either.) Churchill was initially supported but changed his mind after Lady Churchill objected strongly (Low fails to elaborate as to why.). Martin Charteris was an intelligent, wise and very funny man who was in some way in love with the Queen and devoted to his job for decades. Charteris was descended from aristocracy... at least one duke for a grandfather. It is a very engaging book. Much smarter than Tina Brown's.

How long do Haz and his harridan get to play their respective My Mummy Died and Racism cards? Is there not an expiration date on these cards just like my MasterCard, Visa and Amex cards have expiration dates?

Thanks for the laugh with your signature R591.

"Knuckleheads" - Priceless.

I think I might start using this.

Thanks for the summary r593. I've always liked Low's writing as a journalist. Am excited for this book.