Triple X holy shit. It’s about nukes pt. 3

More Concern Troll talking points?

R1 are you new here?

More pumping for the Daily Mail, Telegraph, and New York Post?

Pimping, that’s right, spellcheck, PIMPING

WHET the “HANG MERRICK GARLAND!” Trolls?

Recent reporting seems to be speculating that this is more insane but less insidious that it first appeared.

Meaning that Trump took the documents as a way of saying "fuck you" to everyone in authority, on his team and ours, and to all the people who told him he could not rip up papers and flush them down the toilet

That he did not give them back because he did not want to give them back because he liked having them and wanted to keep them to show off to people he wanted to impress.

That he currently had no nefarious plans to sell them or trade them--he just wanted to have them because someone told him he could not have them and no one tells Donald Trump what to do!!!

That despite numerous lawyers telling him he needed to return the docs to the National Archives, Trump decided he did not need to because they were really his documents and the lawyers clearly did not know what they were doing and/or were not fighting hard enough.

So essentially Trump acting like a spoiled toddler whose Mommy wants to take away one of the toys he is playing with because it belongs to someone else and Trump does not want to give the toy to Mommy

Cohen said they were Trump's get out of jail free card.

R6.

YourMillennialCunt at r6 is saying that Trump is harmless, just a big baby.

That is still my theory as well R7, but recent reporting seems to be pushing the narrative that Trump was just a dumb irate toddler who did not understand that keeping those files was illegal.

Not a great defense.

Agree r9 don't ever under estimate how evil Dump is

It's like that chart that begins with I didn't do it, and it shows stages of excuses. Now it's the "I did it but so what, there's nothing wrong with that"

Trump took them to sell them. For all we know, he already has sold or shared some of the documents. Stop falling for the story that he is harmless.

I seriously doubt they will convict him. If they do it'll look really bad for the country on an international level, and Republicans will just become more deranged. He is above the law at this point. The decisions they make regarding his crimes has so many unpredictable consequences because he has so much power. My prediction: they'll "investigate" him up until the time he wins the party nomination. They'll take a break, but maybe drop a press release occasionally during the general election. Hopefully he doesn't win and then they'll probably just slap him on the wrist with a fine or something. I really doubt he'd run in 2028.

I just posted this in part 2, but I see someone is determined to keep spreading this bullshit:

R6, I believe you are referring to MAGA Haberman's recent article "speculating" on Trump's motivation, which is really a poorly disguised spin piece directly from team Trump.

The FBI/DOJ has him dead to rights on committing multiple crimes, so all they have left if insisting that he's just a big toddler who didn't mean to do anything really bad.

I disagree R14. DOJ will do everything within its power to make sure Trump will never run again. Also, Liz Cheney will do anything she can to help them. That woman has one gigantic axe to grind.

Trump has acted like a Russian asset from day 1, probably because he is one.

Am I crazy for thinking this was a set-up? Trump would LOVE to have some kind of convenient "security breach" right about now that he could blame on someone else:

[quote]"Eric Trump took a selfie and posted it to his Truth Social page. But, because he’s Eric, he didn’t notice that the photo also included the studio’s WiFi network and password....yes, the same WiFi network and password for the Mar-a-Lago security cameras."

Yes, you are crazy.

^ OK so Eric is just a moron, and no one is taking advantage of him being a moron then.

R10.

Donald Trump left a 'gracious' letter behind for Joe Biden after leaving the White House, it has been revealed, as aides shared the catalog of chaos that culminated in last week's Mar-a-Lago raid.

Sources and notes detailing the last four days of the Trump presidency revealed that upon entering the Oval Office, newly elected president Joe Biden found a letter waiting for him from his predecessor, The New York Times reported.

The letter was reportedly handwritten by Trump himself on two large pages, with Biden remarking to an aide that the former president 'had been more gracious in the letter than he had anticipated.'

Its contents have not been revealed, but the letter will be among the first records Biden will have to turn over to the National Archives when he leaves the White House.

Aides say it was the very same process that landed Trump in trouble with the FBI, after attempts by the National Archive to retrieve the note Barack Obama had left for Trump, as well as correspondence with Kim Jong un, sparked a wider probe into the removal of classified documents.

It's a process that has landed Trump in the midst of a FBI investigation, following a series of blunders that resulted in a failure to turn over two dozen boxes of documents, leading to a raid on his Mar-a-Lago home.

Trump has denied allegations of wrongdoing, and says he plans to sue.

Those who spoke to the Times suggested the incident had stemmed from poor organization among Trump's staff, rather than because of any malign attempt to misuse secret information.

Sources told the Times that in the hurry to leave the White House, former White House Chief of Staff Mark Meadows assured aides that he would ensure the administration complied with the regulations to leave the documents for the National Archive.

They noted, however, that Trump seemed more focused on 'pushing through last-minute pardons' as he ignored the transition of power while repeating unfounded claims that the 2020 presidential election was stolen from him.

Although the White House Counsel's Office said it warned Meadows that the two dozen boxes needed to be turned in, which included document's marked 'highly classified' and letters from Korean leader Kim Jong-un, they ended up in Mar-a-Lago instead.

Under the Presidential Records Act, which governs the handling of records created in the Oval Office, every document generated essentially belongs to taxpayers and must be submitted to the National Archives.

Donald McGahn, Trump's first White House Counsel, had instituted a protocol for the handling of materials and had given presentations on the law to staff members, former officials told the Times.

They added that several conversations were had about following the 2020 loss about sending someone to collect the documents that had been building up in Trump's estate.

During the final days of the administration, White House Counsel Pat Cippollone and his deputy, Patrick Philbin, 'were keenly aware that [Trump's] handling of documents was a potential problem,' the Times reported.

Despite the worries, it was unclear how much sway Cippollone had with Trump, as former officials allege the ex-president often berated the attorney for his objections to the election fraud claims.

Along with the reported breakdown between Cippollone and Trump, White House Staff Secretary Derek Lyons, who managed the paperwork in the Oval Office, stepped down on December 18, 2020, just a month before the big exit.

This left Meadows with no executive to help ease the transfer of power that Trump wanted no part of.

Despite Meadow's efforts to have everything set by the time Trump left office in January 2021, officials with the National Archives realized early on that significant materials were missing.

The archivists were particularly keen on getting back letters sent to the president from Kim Jong-Un and a letter Barack Obama left behind for Trump at the start of his presidency, both of which are considered to have significant historical value.

Although National Archive officials pushed Trump's lawyers to get the records back, they didn't get what they wanted until they went directly to Mar-a-Lago to retrieve 15 boxes of materials in January 2022.

The archivists who collected the documents also told Trump's team that they did not preserve social media records or records of official business conducted on electronic messaging accounts while in the White House, the Times reported.

The officials referred the matter to the Justice Department, who questioned Cippollone and Philbin, along with Trump lawyer Scott Gast.

While Trump's team fumbled in prepping for the smooth transition of power, former Vice President Mike Pence had the exact opposite experience.

His chief of staff Marc Short and counsel Greg Jacobs oversaw a complete indexing and boxing up of all of Pence's government documents, three former officials with knowledge of their work told the Times.

Their quick and efficient work had only one goal, sources said: 'ensuring that Mr. Pence left office without a single paper that did not belong to him.'

Pence, asked directly if he had retained any classified information upon leaving office, told The Associated Press in an interview on Friday, 'No, not to my knowledge.'

Who is Trump going to sue? He hasn’t been charged with anything. A civil suit? He’s tiresome.

The propaganda just gets more obvious and desperate.

R25, you don't need to be charged with anything in order to sue anyone lol

He can sue the govt, FBI, AG for the raid which he claims was blah blah blah....

Of course the pig is just talking shit. he ain't gonna do nothing, no lawyer is even gonna go near him with a 10 foot pole.

I am sure dimbulb Cristina Bobb will be happy to file a frivolous lawsuit on his behalf.

Former President Trump is considering filing a motion for a “special master” to review the evidence that the FBI obtained during its search at his Mar-a-Lago property last week. Trump’s lead counsel for the matter, James Trusty, told conservative radio talk show host Mark Levin on his show on Friday that the former president’s legal team will “very soon” file a motion related to the Fourth Amendment to the Constitution, which protects people from unreasonable searches and seizures.

Trusty said appointing a special master, which is an official selected by a judge to carry out a judicial matter on the court’s behalf, is rare in relation to search warrants being executed, but there needs to be “somebody in the middle” because the Justice Department (DOJ) should not be able to be “the guardians of what’s privileged or not.” He said one of the benefits of appointing a special master is stopping the DOJ in inspecting the documents. Trump hinted on his social media platform Truth Social earlier on Friday that he would take legal action against the search related to the Fourth Amendment, claiming his rights have been violated.

Trusty said previous arguments about the disclosure of documents related to the search of Trump’s property in Palm Beach, Fla., have been related to the First Amendment’s protection of the freedom of the press, but Trump’s lawyers are going to work “very hard” in defense of Trump, who he said should not have been subjected to the search warrant. He said the team will argue that the search was overly broad based on the Fourth Amendment language requiring particularity and narrowness in searches. Trusty said the part of the search warrant that allowed FBI agents to take an entire box if a document marked as classified was found in it, along with other boxes that are “collectively stored” with the box, is the “functional equivalent” of a general search with no limit in scope.

What 4th Amendment?

He said the property receipt, which has been made public, is vague and includes descriptions like “box of documents,” so Trump’s team does not know exactly what was taken or from where. Trump’s potential action would come days after the federal judge who approved the search warrant said he might be willing to unseal parts of the affidavit that the FBI used to show its evidence that there was probable cause of a crime being committed. The judge told the DOJ to suggest redactions to the document, and he would determine if they were appropriate. The Fourth Amendment requires that warrants specifically describe the location to be searched and items to be seized. The search warrant was unsealed shortly after the search took place following a DOJ motion for it to be publicized given the significant public interest in the situation.

This seems like another attempt to throw a noodle against the wall to see if it sticks.

Trump is going to sue for 4th Amendment violations? Wait till he finds out how his favorites 6 SCOTUS justices decimated that cause of action.

And he's already late requesting a Special Master--we know from the return of his passports that the feds have a sequestered team reviewing the materials and returning anything that was seized in error.

He's full of shit as usual, this is all rhetoric for fundraising.

He doesn’t get that he is under a criminal investigation so he doesn’t get to call the shots.

My prediction is they’ll investigate him until he drops dead. That is assuming Biden or some other Dem candidate wins in 2024. This is due to the fact that the President appoints the US AG. If Pukes take over, nothing will ever happen to Shitler. Plain and simple.

As long as the RNC is paying his legal fees, which is a huge mistake, Trump will keep fighting and filing lawsuits. They (DOJ) said the Maralago investigation is just beginning so that will take time. He’s just draining. The only consolation is that they seem to be narrowing in on his criminal activities on several fronts, so he will never not be a subject of an investigation until conviction or plea out.

the only winners in this case are the lawyers...$1000 per hour?

Look at MAGA media and Maggie Haberman is considered Evil Incarnate, that woman from the fake news New York Times who is determined to spread lies about Dear Leader and other leaders of the MAGA movement in order to take Trump down.

And yet many of Hllary's supporters level the same charges against her from the other side--that she is a Trump apologist who sabotaged Hillary's campaign and continues to give Trump air support

Sort of a fascinating dichotomy.

The one thing everyone except Jared Kushner can agree on is that she is insufferable.

R40 the GOP has won the media wars by weaponizing the bullshit liberal media accusation. MAGA media is using the same playbook, or are just delusional. Haberman's connection to team Trump goes way back.

Turn the oven to OFF. Trump is done.

In the minds of Repugs, if Trump committed intentional stealing of Top Secret docs, well, they would find a way to justify it.

But just plain old gross negligence and sloppiness on Move-Out Day? Hell , even White, Wealthy, Males shouldn't get by with that.

[quote]I seriously doubt they will convict him. If they do it'll look really bad for the country on an international level

Convicting someone of a crime they committed looks bad?

Is their a fuckup medal available for trump he deserves a gold.

$1000 an hour R39? You’re cute. Try ten times that amount, starting.

The GOP has won what, R42? They have one fictional network. They have no real respected media. They have no power other than SCOTUS. They don’t hold the house, senate, or Presidency. And anything you think they’ve “won” they’ve actually stolen.

It tickles me that Biden described Trump's letter to him as "gracious", because, in effect, Trump even writing Biden a letter is Trump conceding that lost to Biden.

That will, of course, fly over the heads of Trump's moronic Flying Monkeys Votes Looters and other assorted Trumpers.

R47 You seriously don't notice how the GOP dictates media coverage? You think it's a coincidence that so many straight up lies from the right wing become "controversies" in the national press? We just had an aborted (pun intended) push in both WaPo and the WSJ to claim the story of the 10 year old rape victim needing an abortion as "fake," which only was thwarted when a LOCAL reporter covered the rapist's arrest.

Agree with R44. Heard a politics professor on the BBC reel off the, what, six serious ongoing investigations into Trump's mob MO - which will only deepen as ever more comes to light.

I get that TPTB are doing all they can, and given the luck of the devil Trump could slither away free. But the sane international community would far rather such a radiantly bad man is held to account as far as possible, and not allowed to get away with all his toxic damage.

The rest of the world laughed at us when trump took office.

They will applaud us if we lock him up. The entire planet will breath a sigh of relief.

I’m well aware of the right wing’s tentative power in the media, and the rape example you cited R49 was debunked within a day.

Kyle Cheney has a good overview in Politico.

Key takeaways:

• Trump's legal team is all over place in trying to find a strategy

• That's because there haven't been any formal charges

• There may be some time before charges are brought--the FBI was mostly concerned with getting the files back--but it's also possible they had something specific in mind--we will know soon enough

• Trump's legal team is busy with a number of other matters (GA, NY, 1/6)

^ Again, only because there was an arrest and a LOCAL reporter was diligently covering the story. It was a fluke that the fake debunking was debunked so fast.

Do we really need to go through all the examples going back decades of the press taking right wing lies/spin and running with them to the point of destruction? Emails, Benghazi, death panels, ACORN, WMDs, swiftboating, normalizing Trump, both sides! Did you not even notice how we ended up with Trump?

Again, resulting in no actual power. They hold SCOTUS and nothing else.

Bingo R54

The right has a right wing media machine that has zero interest in presenting both sides, whereas, with the exception of a few smaller online publications, the mainstream center-left media (NYT, WaPo, CNN) is committed to telling "both sides" even if one of those "sides" is an outright lie.

r56

Denying abortion rights is pretty fucking powerful R55. And they’re just getting started.

R55, they hold a disproportionate amount of legislative and executive power--the GOP in both houses of Congress is literally overrepresented. They have 6 seats on SCOTUS. This has had catastrophic effects on the ability of our government to function for decades, and is enabled by the press that protects them. Did you just become sentient yesterday?

Mean old Muriel won't let me post on the "Treason" thread, so here's something tangentially related to "nukes": The daughter of one of Putin's BEST fuck-buddies was just blown sky-high by a car bomb. These folks are ALL murderers and criminals, so I can't say it's any big deal, to me. Ukrainians did it, most likely, but you just don't know for sure...I love the photo, the guys looking for "bits."

R60, I saw that—you think it was Ukraine? I agree that’s possible, but it occurred to me that this is a message to Putin that the walls are closing in. I just don’t think it does anything strategically for Ukraine though. This is a big deal—would love to hear everyone’s thoughts.

I wouldn't guess "UKRAINE", but yes a Ukrainian or 2. Or 3.

Schizophrenic former President Donald Trump has pulled a dramatic about-face to hail “great” FBI agents in the wake of the search of his Mar-a-Lago home — and boasts that he has “always had their backs.”

He also claimed in a Truth Social post on Saturday that FBI agents “like,” even “love” him “a lot.”

How long until even the stupidest of his stupid, STOOPID followers realize that the only thing that ever comes out of that man's mouth is LYING DRIVEL made up on the spot?

Oh, Dump...

R63, they're trying to dox the agents and he's getting ahead of the story.

A lot of them already know, but they'll never admit it, R64, not even to themselves. People don't want to admit they've been conned. In 20 years, though, they'll all deny they ever voted for the man.

Now Trump asking for full affidavit to be released. Is anyone competent advising him? Never mind.

^ No, everyone who is supposed to advise him is just as big a corrupt liar as he is.

Let Dump pay for his own lawyers, he will run out of money soon enough

As we've discussed on DL before, Trump has a history of hiring people who no one else would hire for a similar role and then using that as leverage to bully them into doing what he wants by threatening to fire them.

Michael Cohen is a great example - he would be just-scraping-by solo practitioner if not for Trump. Instead he had a very high paying job and the lifestyle that went with it.

Cohen knew no one else would hire him for a similar job, and that he'd have to stop living large if he got fired, so Trump had all sorts of leverage over him.

KellyAnne Conway-- a minor league political PR person from New Jersey-- Trump was her golden ticket.

Normally, doesn’t an indictment follow a warrant? There has been no indication that they did not find stolen classified documents, so hopefully they indict him soon. And MAGA will flip out if the indictments also include charges of selling and/or sharing national security material with foreign powers for profit or due to being a foreign asset,

Flip out how, R72?

They will merely agree with Trump that the evidence was planted because "The Deep State" wants to take Trump down and RINOs like McConnell worked with "the Democrat party" to take him down

The closer it gets to the truth, the more they will flip out.

R6, Trump’s village idiot/big baby persona is, like everything else about him, a fraud. In Bob Woodward’s interviews with him, he admitted that he knew all about COVID and was deliberately lying to the country about it. He made other admissions like that, even bragging to Woodward about his knowledge about classified nuclear programs. He was paying more attention to his briefings than people thought. He’s crass, he’s evil, he’s sadistic, but as the 1/6 committee has proven, he can plan and scheme.

Rumors floating online that Dugin's daughter was assassinated by the FSB.

A spring cleaning, if you will.

R76, I thought that the FSB itself was largely to blame for the intelligence failures that led Putin to invade. Are they trying to punish specific individuals who they feel were responsible for bad information?

Not sure, R77. Clearly they intended to whack Dugin himself. But who had the strongest motivation to whack him?

A case this huge is likely to be slow-moving, R72.

[quote]A number of people have gotten impatient that the search of the former President’s golf resort has not yet yielded an indictment. “If you or I did what he did,” a common refrain goes, “we’d already be in prison.” I often point to the example of Joshua Schulte, the former CIA coder convicted last month of the Vault 7 and 8 leaks. He wasn’t jailed until almost nine months after the initial search of his apartment, and only then because he violated bail conditions on charges related to Child Sexual Abuse Materials allegedly found on his server. He wasn’t charged on the Espionage Act charges until 15 months after that initial search.

[quote]Normally, doesn’t an indictment follow a warrant? There has been no indication that they did not find stolen classified documents, so hopefully they indict him soon.

They may not indict. They (presumably) got all the materials back, I have a feeling that's as far as it will go.

If you're going to be a criminal in this country, being a former president will get you even further than being rich.

I’m so happy that Pootie will soon bite the dust and he’s gonna go down the shitter. He ruined Russia and a future that the Russian people really do deserve. My psychics now see Pootie dead in February, 2023. Wish it could be sooner.

[quote]Turn the oven to OFF. Trump is done.

Republicans who support former President Trump more than they support the GOP climbed to 41 percent in August, up 7 points from May when 34 percent said they supported Trump more than the party.

^There is NO WAY this creep can be re-elected in a fair Presidential election. Non-partisan, middle-of-the-road voters are tired of his bullshit, tired of his continual lying, and weary of what he has done to the government of this country. They see clearly what a conniving, lying psycho he is. I can't believe he has ANY hope of any further public sector employment.

R83 - Registered Republicans are nowhere near 50% of the electorate (nor are registered Democrats) - there are a whole lot of independent voters out there.

If the Republicans want to go with Trump again, by all means make him your candidate.

He will be convicted. My uncle works in the FBI and he can't say much but what he did say was that they don't raid a president's home unless they are going to convict. They are just getting their ducks in a row.

The judge who authorized the warrant to search Trump’s estate said today he considers the FBI affidavit "reliable" and indicated he may ultimately agree with the DOJ to keep the document sealed after they propose potential redactions this week.

The Gang of 8 – Nancy Pelosi, Chuck Schumer, Mitch McConnell, Kevin McCarthy, Mark Warner, Marco Rubio, Adam Schiff and Mike Turner –want to see the documents Trump stole.

And then McCarthy will call Trump in 5 minutes

And Trump will start discussing what they were on camera immediately afterwards.

they should keep it sealed

Related: Bannon and Jim Hoft of the Gateway Pundit are now priming the base with "claim that Democrats are planning to steal the midterm elections." (linked below)

This is notable because as The Nation reported on August 8, "Bannon is plotting a “precinct strategy” takeover of the electoral infrastructure of the nation—by inserting MAGA supporters in key election oversight positions and by creating chaos where necessary—to ensure Republicans get control of Congress and statehouses in 2022 and of the White House in 2024. From there, the plan is for a re-empowered Trump to assert his authority as never before." archive.ph/ ZuYOB

So, same as the 2016 and 2020, they're already claiming fraud. The big difference is **we already know many election oversight positions have been taken by magats**

[quote]Trusty said...the Justice Department (DOJ) should not be able to be “the guardians of what’s privileged or not.”

Okay but that's what the DoJ has been for a very long time now. It's kind of what they do.

[quote]My uncle works in the FBI and he can't say much but what he did say was that they don't raid a president's home unless they are going to convict.

They absolutely WILL raid a president's home as the first part of an attempt to neutralize him in some way without sending him to jail. No one involved wants to send a former president to jail. They want this dealt with long before it becomes a trial with a guilty verdict and jail time. They just want him under control, no longer selling secrets, and out of the picture.

Given that the FBI has never raided a president's house before....

^ Since an FBI raid of a former president is completely unprecedented, there's no way for any of us to to know whether it's in furtherance of prosecuting him or to avoid it until DOJ tells us. The closest precedent we have is Nixon, and there were strong contemporary signs that if not for Ford's pardon, he might have been prosecuted. A 1974 pre-pardon article:

[quote]On the facts, the possibility of his indictment and prosecution is serious. Technically speaking, "the decision is Mr. Jaworski's," said Attorney General William Saxbe. For so momentous a matter, Jaworski is sure to seek guidance from Congress and President Ford, though a Jaworski spokesman indicated that the need for a decision was "not immediate." The case for prosecution is clear, however.

[quote]Says Stanford Criminal Law Professor John Kaplan, a former prosecutor: "I have a strong feeling that it isn't right to behave like a banana republic and hound the ex-leader. But I regret to say I would go ahead and prosecute. It's a very strong case of obstruction of justice." In fact, even before the latest tape disclosure, the Watergate grand jury had vigorously wanted to indict Nixon while he was President, but was persuaded by Jaworski only to name him an unindicted co-conspirator on the argument that he could only be prosecuted after leaving office. Now the grand jury, which is still sitting, might insist on returning that indictment.

[quote]There are other possible criminal charges, including subornation of perjury, tax fraud, misprision of a felony, misuse of Government funds for his private home, violating the civil rights of Daniel Ellsberg and his former psychiatrist, Lewis Fielding. It is not impossible that still further charges will emerge; 12,500 cu. ft. of tapes, records and other Nixon documents remain in the White House. They would normally belong to a former President, but because they may contain evidence of crimes, there will probably be some effort to comb through them before they are handed over to Nixon.

[quote]Federal prosecution is far from his only worry. State or local prosecutors could bring charges in either California or Florida. Civil suits could also be filed. There is the added certainty that Private Citizen Nixon will face the annoyance of frequent appearances as a witness—in the cover-up trial and the Connally milk bribe case among others.

On the other hand, those possible state charges (that would not have been covered by the federal pardon) never materialized. He was forced to testify in front of a grand jury though.

November is coming,

•Get involved NOW by contacting your election authority to become a poll worker and tell allies in red-controlled areas about:

workelections.org

•Next, spread the word about serving as a nonpartisan Election Protection volunteer:

protectthevote.org

•Then, if you can't do either of the above: Get involved in voter mobilization efforts. Contact your local Dem party to drive voters to the polls and work registration drives. Spread the word about:

RideShare2Vote.com

Don't wait, they're already ahead of us.

Great post r97, thanks for sharing.

Everybody still wondering why Trump gets away with everything? Why he still might get away with this? Check out this article from 2020. I've been following Greg Olear for awhile and he's usually on target.

What happens when a Confidential Informant becomes President?....

^ It's an interesting theory and crazy enough to be true, but the FBI can and does turn on its informants. Usually its because the informant does crimes so stupidly, openly, and sloppily that the FBI can't cover for them anymore. You know, like keeping top secret documents in flagrant violation of multiple laws for no good reason (and likely showing them to anyone willing to pay enough).

thanks, r98!

Regarding r92: It's started already. In the Palin thread, r22 commented that Dems will be rigging the election, just as Bannon commanded the maga trolls to say only two days ago.

It’s always rigged when they are losing, but “perfect” when they are winning.

The difference *now* is the order for magamedia to start the "rigged" talk was issued on 8/20. This will prime the base to push against any election result not determined by maga officials. As is the explicitly stated plan.

I am sensing a pattern of "downplay and ignore factual context" responses.

So they will just cheat and say Dr. Oz, Herschel Walker and the crazy female bat from Arizona are winners?

I need you to find 50,000 votes for Dr. Oz

[quote] No one involved wants to send a former president to jail.

I simply do not understand statements like this. Why don't they? If he's committed criminal acts, he needs to pay the legal price. Do we not believe in the rule of law anymore?

I understand that many consider there to be a lot of nuance to consider, but for me it just comes down to: do we have one code for ex-presidents and one for everyone else? This country was founded specifically against the monarchy, and the president is supposed to be just a citizen, but that's what it sounds like.

R106, I agree completely. That statement should be "no one involved wants to send a former president to jail unless he committed a serious crime."

Hmm. I wonder why Trump chose her as a lead attorney.

They have to prosecute him. Unlike Nixon, he isn't going to quietly go away if pardoned in advance. He will continue to constantly shoot his mouth off to the press, undermine Republican leadership, hold rallies, beg for money from the MAGATs, and generally interfere in every election, state and federal. There will be no "healing" if Trump is pardoned. Just more of the same.

Crazier things have happened, but I just can’t imagine the Republican Party nominating someone under criminal indictment who is pending (or in) a criminal proceeding. By 2024, Trump could be serving a jail sentence.

NYT Breaking News: The Justice Department is said to have retrieved more than 300 documents with classified markings from Donald Trump since January.

If the FBI comes after Trump for having 300 top secret documents, what can they do to the rest of us?

This is the best part:

Two former White House officials, who had been designated as among Mr. Trump’s representatives with the archives, received calls and tried to facilitate the documents’ return.

Mr. Trump resisted those calls, describing the boxes of documents as “mine,” according to three advisers familiar with his comments.

They also say it was dodo Christina Bobb who signed the letter in June saying all classified documents had been returned.

R111, he had documents from the CIA, the NSA, and the FBI. They were just scooped up by accident, I’m sure.

That motion that Trump filed today is worthless. The three attorneys who signed it should be ashamed.

Uh-oh. Junior made a boom boom in his diaper.

This is the current reporting:

Lock him up and throw away the key.

r92 At this point it's dereliction of duty that one of our alphabet agencies hasn't put a bullet through Bannon's head.

It’s a relief that a former President is floundering in the legal system with absolutely no special powers.

What's even more maddening, r120, is that his plan is being executed by Mark Meadows and Cleta Mitchell via the Conservative Policy Institute and aided by Citizens United at summits nationwide.

"Bannon featured multiple guests from the summits, including Mitchell, in the lead-up to the Virginia summit, which he encouraged viewers to attend.

During a "War Room" appearance days before the Virginia event, Mitchell described the program as "arming people to fight back against the radical left," saying her goal was to "keep them from stealing it ever again."

"Are these active workshops where they actually understand how to take over and grab hold of and control the local apparatus in their local elections?" Bannon asked Mitchell.

"Absolutely," Mitchell said. "That's absolutely what we're doing."

Are these poll workers going to throw out votes for Democrats? I hope Joe and Kamala have a monitoring plan.

300 documents...what's that life in prison?

Release the National Guard to polling places to ensure voter safety and no hanky panky by these MAGAt election volunteers. Biden has the authority to do that. I think it would be a worthwhile precaution so we don’t end up with contested results. At this point, due to Repuke efforts to nullify every Democratic win, NEITHER party will feel that any win, by any party can be trusted.

The National Archives found more than 700 pages of classified material — including “special access program materials,” some of the most highly classified secrets in government — in 15 boxes recovered from Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate in January, according to correspondence between the National Archivist and his legal team.

These records included 700 pages of classified material, according to the letter, sent by National Archivist Debra Wall to Trump’s attorney, Evan Corcoran, and it doesn’t include records recovered by the Justice Department and FBI during a June meeting and the Aug. 11 search of the Mar-a-Lago premises.

Why can’t Steve Bannon just choke to death on a Big Mac?

Beware of old people:

Steve Bannon - 68

Cleta Mitchell - 71

Donald Trump -76

Steve Bannon is possibly the only human being more dangerous than Trump.

We are *indeed* finally at max Constitutional Crisis. The only way out is through — both of them have got to be indicted, tried, convicted, sentenced. And I forgot to mention, frog marching is critical too. Frog March Donald without his hair styled, frog march Bannon in an orange prison shirt that is four sizes too small so we get a full view of his tummy and his no doubt moley melanoma-esque décolletage for all the world too see, with his hair in a center part. Put Donald in a center part too.

One set of photos of these two bozos looking totally emasculated, it’s all over, for real. It’s all we need.

Does anyone know when DOJ’s response to Trump’s motion is due?

R130 ["Steve Bannon is possibly the only human being more dangerous than Trump."]

Maybe, but I'd go with Jared Kushner. At least Bannon tells (warns) us what he's gonna do. Kush is a sneaky little varment.

Trump has some splaining to do

[quote] Steve Bannon is possibly the only human being more dangerous than Trump.

Actually, I'd say that people like Peter Thiel, the Mercers, and their ilk are more dangerous. They've been behind all of this, ideologically and financially. Clowns like Bannon would be nowhere without their (and Russian) backing.

^ Peter Thiel is Bond villain evil

Can someone grow some balls and arrest him already? He broke the law, repeatedly. Fucking arrest him.

Trump filed a Motion yesterday for a Special Master re the documents that were "seized" (reclaimed) by the FBI. He did so in the Court of a different Federal judge in Miami, not in the court of Judge Rinehart, the Magistrate who signed the original warrant. The Federal judge is a woman whom Trump appointed to the bench in 2020. Apparently, just a short while ago, before 8:00 p.m., the day after the Motion was filed, she issued an Order directing Trump and his lawyers to instanter supplement their Motion by explaining WHY they did not bother to file their Motion in Judge Rinehart's Court, WHAT relief they are actually seeking exactly (she's telling them their Motion seems insane to her), and further, whether they have made any attempts to serve the FBI (indicating that Ttump's attorneys did not FILE anything with the Court indicating that they are even attempting to serve it on the other side, which the law requires). Legally, what Trump is doing here is nothing but HILARIOUSLY STUPID. His own appointee on the Federal bench is telling him, in so many words, that he is WASTING her time.

^ If she really cared about Trump, she would have warned him that by claiming executive privilege he effectively admitted that the documents belong to NARA and he broke several laws by taking and then refusing to hand them over.

“I mean, if he had actual special access programs — do you know how extraordinarily sensitive that is? That’s very, very sensitive. If that were actually at his residence, that would be a problem,” said Rep. Chris Stewart (R-Utah), a member of the House Intelligence Committee.

[quote]This is the kind of order you expect a judge to issue to a pro se litigant if the judge is being very generous. It is not the sort of order you expect a federal judge to have to issue to lawyers with the possible exception of Lin Wood.

Good video summary

Con Orange was selling secrets or paying debts to Poo 10 with it. Is there another plausible reason?

Hahahahahahahaaaaa, absolute fucking clown show.

[quote]Things are going great for Team Trump. Two of his lawyers just got their pro hac vice admission motions denied because they didn’t file them right. (Pro hac vice motions are seeking permission to practice in a court where you aren’t admitted.)

The truth always reveals Trump to be an arrogant asshole who broke the law.

WaPo tonight:

Some material recovered in the search is considered extraordinarily sensitive, two people familiar with the search said, because it could reveal carefully guarded secrets about U.S. intelligence-gathering methods. One of them said the information is “among the most sensitive secrets we hold.”

It could not be determined who was involved with packing the boxes at Mar-a-Lago or why some White House documents were not sent to the Archives, though people familiar with the episode said Trump oversaw the process himself — and did so with great secrecy, declining to show some items even to top aides

Again. what the fuck is anyone wating for. Just by having the documents at his home he broke the law. Several hundred times. HE SHOULD BE ARRESTED.

R145 I agree. He's a menace to society.

This is a damn circus. jfc.

NYT:

But even as he fuels outrage in sympathetic media outlets and tries to turn attention to Mr. Biden and the so-called deep state, Mr. Trump is to some extent walking on the phantom limbs of his expired presidency, claiming executive privilege still applies to him even though he’s out of office and maintaining he had a sweeping, standing order to declassify some documents, which his aides have declined to produce.

I'm sure there are worse people in the world but I'm not aware of any.

Meryl Streep is now commenting as an MSNBC contributor.

Why is Trump still breathing air? Seriously, he’s absolutely destroyed the US, as far as it being even slightly “sane”, his narcissistic insanity has become a viral menace. Time to end it.

It is unreal. Thirty years ago he’d be dead by assassin by now. Why are we all such pussies about taking him out?

Have at it, R153.

I can't help but notice a sharp increase of comments wishing for death in this and several other threads. I'm leaning toward these comments being posted by accelerationist infiltrators, who hope to either inspire violence in DLers or to share the comments as "proof" on right wing sites.

Either way, knock it off. We respect the rule of law because we aren't fucking fascists.

Agreed R155

May he rot in prison after being convicted in a free and fair trial.

I think he should have a free and fair trial, then be put to death for espionage

Thanks, r156. They've used "digital blackface" to make posts all over the internet attempting to discourage voting and encourage violence; It's a safe assumption they similarly target all minorities. I've called them out in different spaces and they slink away for a while, at least.

r155 Or maybe we're just Americans sick and fucking tired of people like Steve Bannon destroying the country without ever facing a consequence?

That's what the justice system is doing, r159. Have you not paid attention to the news this year? Stfu with the rhetoric and do something useful, like registering voters, for example.

R155, people go too far in the other direction too. I got banned off a Reddit subreddit because I posted, someday, after Trump dies, I wonder if his followers will continue to be Trumpists with another leader, or will the movement fade away?

This was interpreted as, “wishing for his death.” How old is he, late seventies? And his father died of Alzheimer’s. He’s not going to be politically active forever. What should I have said, I fervently hope our Dear Leader lives forever, but if he doesn’t, then what new form will the ongoing worship take?

Oh shut your precious trap R160, seriously, find the nearest grease fire and have at it. You high and mighty cunt! Trump and his form of rancid societal infestation is NOT normal and deserves whatever extreme measures available to exorcise the rot. He, and it, will continue to disrupt and destroy everything you cherish.

Which subreddit banned you for that, R161?

[quote]I can't help but notice a sharp increase of comments wishing for death in this and several other threads. I'm leaning toward these comments being posted by accelerationist infiltrators, who hope to either inspire violence in DLers or to share the comments as "proof" on right wing sites.

More likely those posts are trying to get the threads shut down.

R164 is right. We all hate Dump—at least everyone with a brain does. R162, railing against someone who actually has your political beliefs and hates Dump just as much as you is not beneficial. We all can’t sit around waiting for him to get Alzheimer’s or worse. That asshole has nine lives. We have to organize and VOTE.

Sorry, but I wouldn’t be sad if the fat orange fucker just died. If he goes to jail, his followers might do worse in his name. At least if he croaks, people will just think Hillary offed him. It might be easier to kill the entire movement if the head of the snake is gone.

Rabid Xtian ElderLez is a stealth Russian troll.

You can't be Lutheran and overlook that religion's homophobic stance.

Call her Svetlana instead.

Are Republicans even talking about this anymore? Trump is so clearly guilty I would assume they will move on and find their next messiah.

R167, in fact, it’s apparent you’re the Russian troll. You’re trying way too hard. Elder Lez has been here forever, we all know where her politics lie.

You on the other hand…

[quote] You can't be Lutheran and overlook that religion's homophobic stance.

Nonsense. Most people in Nordic countries are Lutheran and it's probably the least homophobic part of the world.

[quote]Nonsense. Most people in Nordic countries are Lutheran and it's probably the least homophobic part of the world.

Just ask Peggy Olson!

The Lutheran Church is homophobic. That is true.

So are almost all organized religions.

Are we going to allow this thread to be derailed over the Lutheran church? Really?? Who cares?

The Evangelical Lutheran Church in America, the largest Lutheran church body in the United States, allows for LGBTQ+ marriage and ordination of LGBTQ+ clergy.

R175 was quick with her googling and copy-paste! Good job R175!

The grift continues. Those legal bills must be mounting.

I’ll send my reservation in right away just to fuck with them.

$100g and no top secret documents for dessert? Feh!

100K better get me two scoops.

What's with the "honorable" bs?

Yeah, everyone is Honorable except Kimberly Guilfoyle, Prostitute.

And a $100,000 candlelight dinner with Trump? Barf

wow only 100.000 doller's to bask in inperson gory of my presidant Mr presidant trump?? me and dh spenned that much at Applebees' many time's when we get apps desert's and cock tail

If i can get babby sitter ill go and report back to u sad lib's that aint got a hundred doller's to be apart of histary lol losers !

R163, it was QanonCasualties, which is a subreddit about people who have family and friends who belong to the Qanon cult, who believe virtually every single thing said on the internet by any person who claims to be a member of Qanon. No matter how physically impossible or ludicrous.

Most of those “patriots” posting as Qanon are either Russian trolls or Republican con artists looking to take brainwashed people’s money. It’s a cult. A lot of these people completely changed their personality after Q, or more accurately, their entire personality was wiped clean and replaced with a wild eyed conspiracy theorist zombie.

A lot of the posters are their soon-to-be divorced spouses or horrified kids. So it’s the least pro-Trump audience imaginable. I can imagine some people posting do hope Trump will die, but observing the fact that he is mortal and won’t live forever, isn’t the same as wishing for his death. It was an overreach.

1. He broke the law. 2. the FBI has evidence he broke the law 3. the DOJ signed off on the warrant to search for the evidence he broke the law.

FUCKING ARREST HIM.

Oh calm the fuck down R155. Wishing death on Trump is nothing new. Infiltrationist. Shut the fuck up you moron.

R155 is a concern troll.

Election season is upon us, ushering in droves of vile nazi trolls, once again.

Russia is losing their genocidal war. The world is against you. The American people are purging you from society and government.

😂🤣

The breadth of his crimes is overwhelming. Good thread breaking down just how shady/shitty the Barr memo in response to the Mueller report is. One of many egregious examples:

[quote]It also argues it wasn't obstruction when Trump tried to get McGahn to write a memo denying the attempted firing [of Mueller] bc McGahn had already told Mueller about it. It doesn't address that a memo contradicting his testimony would undermine his ability to be a witness in any trial.

"Just because Trump tried to get McGahn to lie by saying he lied, which would make him a worthless witness, doesn't meant Trump was trying to get him to lie and interfere with his ability to be a witness."

I think obstruction in the Mueller probe was very confusing to people due to all the legalese.

In the stolen boxes case, it’s understandable to a lay person: Trump stole highly classified material and then lied about it.

It was confusing because Barr sowed confusion.

Trump tried to get people to lie to the feds to protect him, sometimes by force, sometimes by promising them stuff. That's pretty understandable to a lay person.

Trump was having a bit of a meltdown this morning.

Poor thing.

Something's up. Trump was especially unhinged on Truth Social this morning. Either he got some especially bad news or it's finally sinking in that there's no easy way out for him. He can't delay this long enough for the Republicans to take over the house and senate and make this all magically go away.

He didn't get a second scoop?

He doesn’t have any defense, or mouthpiece in the government advocating for him that he can control, so he is going full on mental.

Trump is going after McConnell and Elaine Chao too. Do you think he is implying cocaine when he refers to her as “Coco”?

I truly hope this is the beginning of his complete unraveling and that he takes all the GOP trash with him!

🌻🇺🇦Trese 💉🏳️‍🌈😷 💙#BLM @LoverOfBooks123 Replying to @SpiroAgnewGhost Someone on Twitter speculated that he has already promised those documents to someone (accepted payment for) and now they are demanding them! That is why he is panicking.

Delicious!

[quote]Do you think he is implying cocaine when he refers to her as “Coco”?

I thought he misspelled "Cuckoo," but your guess is probably just as likely.

Coco likes covfefe!

A judge on Thursday ordered the Justice Department to make public a redacted version of the affidavit it relied on when federal agents searched the Florida estate of former President Donald Trump to look for classified documents.

The judge said the department must file its redacted version by noon Friday. The redactions proposed by the department are likely to be extensive, so it’s not clear how much new information about the investigation will be revealed.

Redacted Search Warrant Affidavit to be unsealed tomorrow by FL judge order. Could that be what Trump is freaking out about? The redactions are by the DOJ, but there's bound to be embarrassing add'l info in there.

To be released by noon tomorrow. It could be anytime between now and then.

Elaine Chao is a dumb chink!

Trump must be panicking.

Isn't it delicious, r206?

Trump may have been a mob informant. If he goes to jail, he will be killed if that comes out.

I honestly don’t think he would last a day in jail. He would not have access to hair dye and makeup. This would be devastating for him.

The Madness of King Donald

[quote] Trump is going after McConnell and Elaine Chao too.

R197 I think McConnell was done with Trump as a useful idiot once McConnell got his 6-3 Supreme Court and after the January 6th insurrection that could have resulted in McConnell being killed. Trump has a limited repertoire, so I'm guessing he's ranting about McConnell and Chao because 1) They're a distraction; 2) "See, everyone cheats;" and/or 3) I've got dirt on them that will ruin them unless they continue to support me (i.e., blackmail).

I'll just leave this here....

When Miss Lindzebelle gets back to Mar-a-Lago for the weekend, Donnie will feel so much better if he follows her immediate advice.

RIP Hussle

For live updates on the affidavit release today

I hope it’s not so heavily redacted that you don’t get any juicy nuggets.

He went from manic meltdown yesterday to complete media silence today. I do believe someone is VERY worried about something.

McConnell still fears the publicity monster called Deplorables. The GOP needs these enraged idiots to make it look like the Conservatives have the significant support of the conservative voter demographic. With those Trumpers like Laura Loomer going on about election fraud (what else is new?) and telling Trumpers to not vote in the midterms, the optics are bad and the midterm votes could be even worse for the conservatives.

Deplorables trying to fuck with the elections by being election officials is just going to fuck them further in the ass, because everybody is on to them, screw it up, and all they will do is delay the outcome of the liberals being declared the winner officially (just petty fucks at this point).

Call me paranoid if you like, but I can not help to worry and wonder just wtf he has done to us. This craven pos has committed so very many serious crimes, practically in public, and not had the slightest worry about the consequences. So just what has he done to make him worried about getting caught now?

Fear not, r219

We have to enter an era of accountability to outdo what the conservatives have done for decades. Starting with Trump and his family going to prison for the crimes they have committed.

I fear it will be something like this.

Where is that affidavit already?

Me, too ElderLez.

I’m keeping my expectations in check, too.

I’ll go on record as being against release of any portion, redacted or not, of the affidavit because releasing anything now, before a charging decision is made, may provide a basis to Trump to argue that the information in the affidavit created prejudice because whatever is in the affidavit hadn’t been tested by pre-trial evidentiary motions or cross- examination.

He still has classified documents he hasn’t turned over???? JFC

Agree with you 100% Della that they shouldn’t be at releasing it at all, but since they are….

Poo 10 & others will be very angry if they gave Con Orange the $$$$$$$, and he hasn’t delivered the goods in time.

Story about a Russian spy at Mar A Lago and part of Trump's entourage. No wonder DOJ was freaking out. Add to that the news that there is a tunnel underneath Mar A Lago to Trump's residence. I think we really have to assume that any Top Secret intel there was compromised.

R225 where did you read that? That’s pretty huge!

NO. NO! I just saw this thread and could not believe it. We're still doing this? I was on the first thread in this saga to express my skepticism (met with seething and hissing, typically) and tuned out again.

Who is the Queen Bee of this thread? "The Pied Piper of Lonely Gays" herself, Ms. ElderLez! So this will be a 177 part saga with increasingly unwitty titles, extending well into 2024.

You are living up to your reputation 😂

Miss Lindsey’s diversionary tactics:

I’m not the OP of this thread R230. (And I am sorry that you are still mad that you thought I got your thread paywalled, but I really didn’t have anything to do with it.)

Anyway affidavit is released - pages and pages of redactions.

so what was in it?

A redacted FBI affidavit used to convince a judge for a search warrant for former President Trump’s Florida home noted that authorities found 184 classified documents in their initial review of boxes recovered from the home in an effort that began just a few months after he left office.

The 28-page affidavit contains numerous redactions but indicates authorities believed “evidence, contraband, fruits of crime, or other items illegally possessed” would be found at Mar-a-Lago.

Oh, she was just in Mar-a-Lago to play golf with Lindsey Graham.

R230, I’m the OP of this thread not ElderLez. I didn’t see your post until someone mentioned it at r232 since I have you BLOCKED. It would be so easy for you—and everyone else—to block me and ElderLez to see that we are too different people, especially since ElderLez SIGNS her posts, ,but you’re too learning impaired… BORIS. Yes, I’ll say it. Russian troll who’s too stupid to be here.

Per the affidavit, the initial batch of materials Trump turned over included documents marked "HCS," which refers to clandestine human sources who risk their lives to provide information to the US government.

I honestly have felt all along that he gave everything to Putin within the first year of the election. Remember that four million dollar debt he owes him? That was his payment.

You're the only one around here *hissing*, r230...

The DOJ says it it is protecting a "significant number of civilian witnesses" by keeping aspects of its Mar-a-Lago search under seal.

R240- Let the unchecked paranoia begin! Whee!

Trump's response is his typical mix of lies, diversions and distractions:

R241- Trump, not you, R240.

You Russian Trolls go the Ukrainian front, and present holes in front of U.S. provided M142 HIMARS ready for the launch of precision-guided rockets.

Clueless Orange Shithead: "We gave them much!" You weren't suppose to have any of them, idiot!

That's the way I took it, R241 -- and you're right, it's going to be very uncomfortable in and around Mar-a-Lago.

How can I read his Truth Social from yesterday without creating an account? Yummy!!!!!!!

His destruction is better than any sex, and I’ve had amazing sex most of my life. This is better. Much more satisfying.

[quote]fruits of crime

Succulent and delicious!

The FBI makes up lies!!!

Kyle Griffin: The affidavit makes clear that the classified documents in Trump's possession weren't even in separate folders — everything was mixed together with junk and miscellaneous items.

And ketchup stains, no doubt, t250.

^r250

R251- He was just sitting at his tiny WH replica desk pretending to still be POTUS.

Mick Mulvaney: It appears this raid was, in fact, just about documents. As even some on the left have opined: that is simply outrageous.

It's been a few days, you'd think Republicans could have focus tested a better response than "He didn't have a nuclear bomb at Mar-a-Lago!"

Trump invokes Obama. Obama didn’t swipe classified documents and refused to return them.

They have him now for breaking the law and obstruction. Now it’s just moving to preparing the indictment.

R242 Years worth of speculation to be had!

Guard your thread carefully, OP. When you finally get bored with this in a few months ElderLez will snatch it out from under you.

I would also like to point out right now, this will drag on forever without results. Check back in a year or so when I am proven right, like usual.

Seek a mental health specialist, r257.

Oh, to be a witness to his reaction right about now! Glorious! Just glorious!

In the 15 returned boxes:

- 187 documents with classified markings - 25 marked Top Secret

- 92 marked Secret

- 67 marked Confidential

- several of the documents also contained what appeared to be [Trump's] handwritten notes

Our favorite president? Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

R260- In crayon?

He is fucked.

Aaron Rupar @atrupar 'why didn't the FBI raid Trump earlier?' isn't the talking point Fox News thinks it is. 😂

Look. Of course he is shouting that he'll sue. WTF did we expect him to say/do? There is nothing not predictable about all of this. IMO he took that classified stuff including lists of Human Intel ASsets so he could sell them. Just like Jared and MBS did a few years ago. Maybe 2018? Jared told MBS who was betraying him. Who was informing. Trump has been at high risk for years. If you have been paying attention only 50% of the time you would know he is transactional and he monetizes everything. YOu would know that once painting himself into a corner with this Big Lie, he is determined to continue being "Presidential." And that means access to top secret stuff and... talking to foreign leaders and their representatives or other interested foreign parties to discuss those top secret documents. No doubt in my mind he was interested in making money off the docs. He has no loyalty to his country. Doesn't even understand the concept. And BTW: Who helped him. He had help. How else would he know what to take with him, or how to get it. There are no file cabinets marked " top secret" in some WH clerk's office.

Neal Katyal of the Trump lawyer letter released with the affidavit:

If I'm Trump's lawyer defending him, the very 1st thing I'd say, if true, is the documents were declassified. That claim appears nowhere in the lawyer's letter. So telling.

Also telling: lawyer letter has zero explanation for what Trump was doing w/all this material in 1st place.

At first, I thought that these documents being found amidst junk was going to be his defense, and that he would say that he didn't realize he took these documents with him because they were in files and piles of non-classified material.

Since he hasn't used that as a defense, and is instead saying he had every right to have those documents, I now believe that all sorts of people were digging around in those documents and boxes, taking things and copying them, returning them surreptitiously, maybe never returning them at all.

Isn’t Trump supposed to file a brief today in his case to ask for a special master?

He's at least two weeks too late with that filing. The horse is already out of the barn.

The judge gave Trump until Friday to explain why he wants a Special Master.

The SECOND I hit post, I realized today IS Friday. Look at me, just now learning the days of the week.

Trump Co probably waited for the affidavit release. But their brief is due by end of day today.

Jfc, what documents does he still have?

We know we'll have to pry Kim Jong-un's love missive out of his cold, dead hands, r273.

R274- Who does he love more, KJU or Putin? Tangled web.

I posted this in the Trump in Misery thread, but it is appropriate here too:

Trump knows he is in legal jeopardy. OK? But this is not new to him. In his mind, being in legal jeopardy is something he is familiar with and in this context, as with impeachment, he feels like all he has to do is go on the offensive, have tantrums and raise help because it's "all political." He has always felt like he was the exception to the rule and since he has never faced true consequences for his criminal behavior why should this be different? Think about this. Trump knew about COVID i in November of 2019. He was told in December it would get bad. The Republican caucus had a closed door briefing in January, 2020.

All of them, including Trump looked for ways to monetize it. The Senators bought and sold stockks. Trump was shilling fake treatments, and contracting opportunities. Remember the controversy about ventilators? Remember Jared deciding that we were not entitled to the "surplus" emergency medical equipment? Remember the Nurses wearing trash bags? Hundreds of thousands of people, more than 600,000 people died. Hpsital systems were collapsing. We couldn't go to hospitals to be with loved ones or even a funeral. Remember that? And through it all he criticized Fauci, he lied and he did nothing but internally mess with the CDC, and fuck with the numbers. And make money off the pandemic. And his Republican enablers all did the same thing. So remember what kind of person we're dealing with. He did not careee then and he doesn't care now. Words like Ethics, Hummanity, Patriotism, etc. mean nothing to him. Self promotion and greed are everything to him. He's a sick fuck.

This feels different because he has no defense and clearly broke the law. He has no government people on staff that can defend him. The only lawyers left defending him are all of marginal talent (and that is being generous). Even if he hired talented lawyers they would not be able to create a valid defense for him.

I think he cares this time. He is street smart enough to see betrayal all around him and to feel his power slipping away. That is instinct and he does have that, if nothing else. The reaction so far is mild compared to what it will be soon. He betrayed this country and people want him in prison or hung by the neck at the nearest tree.

Has he ever been CRIMINALLY charged before? He's been in litigation all his life, true, and he's always just delayed, countersued, then finally paid a fee or declared bankruptcy to get out of it. It's a way of life for him.

I wonder if it's finally sinking in that he's facing CRIMINAL charges this time. And social media and the Republican party can't get him out of it. No political bribe can just make this go away.

[quote]This feels different because he has no defense and clearly broke the law.

Indeed:

R279- No, he hasn't. Very good point. This feels different because it is different. He knows this.

Donald was impeached twice during his one term in office, not to mention losing any number of lawsuits, so the idea that he always gets away with everything is just no.

R282- I was speaking of his past before he cheated his way into office.

Michael Beschloss@BeschlossDC No other ex-President has ever pulled something like this.He took a sacred oath to "faithfully execute the Office of President" and "preserve, protect and defend the Constitution."

I think the public outrage hasn't even begun for a lot of people.

I want to see his arrest live.

Or he could go into cardiac arrest live, either or.

Public executions, best ratings. Paid per views, biggest rating ever

[quote]Trump has denied allegations of wrongdoing, and says he plans to sue.

Life has few guarantees, but this.

Frank Figluzzi tells Nicolle Wallace that he's had three-letter agencies come to him and say, yeah, you caught the guy but you can't pursue this because it would reveal too much information.

"This is so incredibly sensitive that it's going to be a challenge to prosecute."

Interesting...

“Witch hunt” my ass. That bastard stole classified state secrets. Arrest Trump!

There will be no special master. There will be no delays. Judges are tired of his shit. The worm has turned. He’s going to be indicted and he is in real criminal jeopardy looking at a series of sentences that will keep him in jail for life.

The question is now do we have the fortitude to put a former President in jail. I, for one, think we do, but I’m not sure the system has the balls to through with it. I think he will make a deal to disappear, and that will be that.

[quote]"This is so incredibly sensitive that it's going to be a challenge to prosecute."

We are damned if we do, but doomed if we don't.

"Go for broke," I say.

Who falls for idiocy like this: “My father informed me that you have reached GREAT KING MAGA status” so please send him some money?

This former president of the United States is the first in office to deny citizens a peaceful transition of power. A peaceful transition of power is the entire point of the American democratic process.

We don't have wars, insurrections,coups and terrorism every four years when we vote for our representatives.

maga belongs behind bars just for January 6th.

Something around 42% of the electorate will support Trump regardless of the criminal inquiries. I blame Republican politicians for refusing to tell the truth about him, out of fear or due to their own corruption and dishonesty. Fox News has brainwashed millions with the propaganda and repeating the lies over and over. Other right-wing outlets have done similar, including spreading conspiracy theories with fallacious claims and distorted evidence.

Indict Trump. Give them some realism.

I think about half of that 42% can be walked back from the ledge.

Ketchup

Pretty sure this is fake but still funny.

Rusher pushes doctors out of windows for accurately accessing governmental response to a heath crisis. If you think anyone can steal classified documents from Putin and live to tell about it, you're wrong.

Maga is not interested in democracy and it isn't interested in the USA existing. We know that from January 6th.

We had an election, maga contested the results but then went further by attacking the nation's capitol and refusing to attend the ceremony.

It lost the election in 2016, but it still received a ceremony.

You knoiw, where are his Republican allies who, in the past, have accommodated his every whim. In public they pose as if they still do. But if they really gave two fucks about him they'd find him legal representation and be out here vigorously defending him,. Instead it's c listers with their tepid responses. IMO the protest against the FBI have been fairly muted by members of Congress as more and more information comes out.

Figuratively speaking it seems as if they're all taking a few steps back even as they hedge their bets. And he is openly attacking McConnell, not just sporadic outbursts but attacks on his wife and him, and ironically no one has done more self dealing than Trump and his family. No one. Elaine Chao's family is very powerful in China. He is fucking with the wrong people. No one is a bigger security risk than Donald Trump.

As for prosecuting him, I think they will limit it to obstruction, and violation of the documents act. NARA issues. But, if it can be proven that he traded secrets with foreign ers, and gained from it, than he will become extremely ill and die. They will never bring him to trial.

Did they just give up and not file a supplemental brief regarding their own request for a Special Master? SMH

Who would Trump request as special master? Madison Cawthorn or Mike Lindell?

There's a lot of inside jokes on Twitter that are retweeted as source, this is a problem.

One account reedits videos seamlessly and people including myself see the video as is without understanding that account exists solely for the purpose of reediting and patching videos together. He describes this as parody. I read through the responding comments that identified where we can see the seams of the patched together videos.

I wouldn't notice the seams if it wasn't pointed out to me. The extra long spaces between the q and a in these videos I attribute to my ghetto isp and lagging six year old computer, not a parody stitched together. There is a widely shared photo of Doctor Oz kissing trumps Hollywood star. Its a seamlessly edited photo of an event that didn't happen.

How funny is it to have explain over and over again this event didn't happen and it's just a joke?

In these critical times, access to accurate information is the way we will make it to the other side.

That's what you get by getting your news on Twitter. 🐦

I no rite?

I've been seeing an uptick in "parody" tweets from govt official accounts. This is another form of disinformation: It starts off funny but will eventually lead to widespread sharing of false info. There are intelligence reports of twitter accounts targeting all sides and demographics for manipulation.

It is a waste of time to have to explain the joke is just a joke

Dan Rather@DanRather I would guess that Mar-a-Lago is about as "secure" as a Knicks lead at halftime.

I get my news on Twitter, but I follow NPR, CNN, NBC, BBC, WaPo, the Atlantic, and a few other legitimate outlets. I also follow individual journalists like Jim Acosta, Jim Sciutto, Rachel, Anderson, and Dan Rather. A few others. I follow the lawyers like Harry Litman, Andrew Weissman, and Laura Coates, Abbbie Phillips, Jill Winebanks, Joyce Vance and Barbara Mc Quade. Politico, Daily Beast, Raw Story. CREW the ethics group, and the CDC.. I also follow POTUS, VP Harris, and Nancy Pelosi and Hillary. I feel like I get a lot of good reliable stuff from them and it takes about 15 minutes in the morning to scan my news feed. If I see something I f eel like following up, I will . But I can't drive myself nuts with overdosing on News anymore.

NYT Editorial Board: Trump is Not Above the Law

Mr. Trump’s unprecedented assault on the integrity of American democracy requires a criminal investigation. The disturbing details of his postelection misfeasance, meticulously assembled by the Jan. 6 committee, leave little doubt that Mr. Trump sought to subvert the Constitution and overturn the will of the American people. The president, defeated at the polls in 2020, tried to enlist federal law enforcement authorities, state officials and administrators of the nation’s electoral system in a furious effort to remain in power. When all else failed, he roused an armed mob that stormed the Capitol and threatened lawmakers.

The Justice Department is reportedly examining Mr. Trump’s conduct, including his role in trying to overturn the election and in taking home classified documents. If Attorney General Merrick Garland and his staff conclude that there is sufficient evidence to establish Mr. Trump’s guilt on a serious charge in a court of law, then they must indict him, too.

Andrew Weissmann Predicts ‘The former president will be prosecuted’

The nyts degraded its reputation for access to dump.

prosecution isn't enough. He is guilty and deserves punishment.

He needs to be kicked repeatedly in his fat gunt.

Twitter isn't a news source it is a portal to information.

I learned the smallpox vaccine is used for 🙊 pox from an obscure account I follow over there, not through regular news sources that will not or can't disseminate information in a coherent fashion. The account goes deep into the weeds with discussions about covid variants. I'm not understanding the technical information the account discusses but I get a broader understanding that the vaccines we received are capable of limiting the damage all variants of the virus can inflict.

When will we be hearing from NYT’s Maggie Haberman giving a “normalized” explanation of Trump’s behavior?

She’s probably already done so on CNN and I missed it.

Question One: "donald, have you left your baggage unattended at any time, or has your baggage been in the possession of anyone other than yourself?”

Why did Trump take classified docs to Mar-a-Lago? See Haberman's answer

It's fascinating to see how little the "lock her up people" are bothered by their own hypocrisy. By "fascinating" I mean entirely predictable & deplorable. And some of them are doing double-duty by also being outraged about student loan forgiveness while praising PPP forgiveness.

Ugh. She talks about him like he is her baby.

The woman is a jackass and it is impossible to read her work or listen to her speak.

Why the f*ck does Mar-a-Lago have a secret tunnel?

The stealing, mishandling, and concealing of United States defense secrets is on the Republican Party, who refused to remove Donald Trump from office when it was clear he was not fit to be president.

They had the chance to remove him, but instead shielded him. This is on them.

[quote]Why the f*ck does Mar-a-Lago have a secret tunnel?

This plays more and more like a season of "Homeland" every day. Remember the embassy breach via "secret" tunnel?

He'll be indicted and go away one way or the other.

do they know how many pages are missing etc?

have they recovered all of them?

how many pages are still missing?

I told them to give you a call as soon as they know, r327...

Trump is a sociopath. He doesn't care which crimes he is charged with, as long his followers are supporting him (sending him money, harassing government officials, etc.).

People around him may say to him that this is serious, but Trump counts on weaseling his way out like he always does, like when the FBI won't charge him, because it would put too much attention on the files he stole, or some other weak reason. I wouldn't call Trump lucky, but he really trusts the process of him getting away with everything.

POTENTIALLY MASSIVE in light of what we know now:

In Oct 2021, CIA Counterintelligence sent a top secret cable warning an unusually number of confidential informants were being killed, captured, or compromised.

In Jan 2021, Trump stole documents on these kind of informants.

It feels like shit is starting to really hit the fan, I know we've said this before, but this feels different.

R330 exactly. That's my big problem with the Haberman analysis. Yeah he liked to show off the accoutrements of his office. His trophies. And since he is still peddling the Big Lie he would also want to pretend he still has access to documents related to the Presidency. He's nutty. OK? But when he holds on to lists of names of spies and has documents of the highest classification regarding our sources and methods, and our assets, our human intel, and even our technology, which he understands nothing about , that is different. Michael Cohen called the documents his "Get out of jail free" card, and we know he was just looking for his passport a few days ago. So, IMO he obviously was going to use the documents as some form of currency. That's my theory. Haberman is nutty, too. I do believe this. If he was engaged in transactions where these classified documents were the currency, then he will not live to stand trial. He will get a CIA type heart attack. Probably in a way that leaves no doubt the poor guy had a heart attack.

^which should have happened already.

[quote] Trump is a sociopath.

Psychopath, R320. I think psychopath.

[quote] Psychopaths are dangerous. They’re violent and cruel, and oftentimes downright sinister. They show no remorse for their actions, usually because of a lesion on a part of their brain responsible for fear and judgment, known as the amygdala. Psychopaths commit crimes in cold blood. They crave control and impulsivity, possess a predatory instinct, and attack proactively rather than as a reaction to confrontation: A 2002 study found that 93.3 percent of the psychopathic homicides were instrumental in nature (meaning they were more or less planned), compared with 48.4 percent of the homicides by people who weren’t psychopaths.

[quote]Sociopaths are a different breed. They, too, may suffer from their mental illness as a result of lesioned brain regions. Upbringing may also play a larger role in a child becoming a sociopath versus those that are diagnosed as psychopaths, or the slide into dementia on the other end of the spectrum. Sociopathic behavior is manifested as conniving and deceitful, despite an outward appearance of trustworthiness or sincerity. Sociopaths are often pathological liars. They are manipulative and lack the ability to judge the morality of a situation, but not because they lack a moral compass; rather, their existing moral compass is greatly (yet not always dangerously) skewed. Pemment, for one, says this could point to both a social and neurological component.

[quote]This means that while psychopathy and sociopathy both likely involve impaired cognitive function, the two differ in which circuits are affected. Psychopaths are fearless; sociopaths aren’t. Psychopaths don’t have a sense of right and wrong; sociopaths do. But both are equally capable of ruining lives and destroying relationships — not that they care.

Captured, Killed or Compromised: C.I.A. Admits to Losing Dozens of Informants

Counterintelligence officials said in a top secret cable to all stations and bases around the world that too many of the people it recruits from other countries to spy for the U.S. are being lost.

If r330 is true, holy shit, why wasn't Trump dealt with as soon the FBI and CIA were made aware of this?

My god. Someone needs to connect the dots between those killed and the intel Trump stole. Numbers won’t lie if a disproportionate number of those killed were among those mentioned in the purloined docs.

[quote] Trump is a sociopath.

[quote] Psychopath, [R320]. I think psychopath.

Could be, but given his horrible parents, I give Trump the benefit of a doubt.

Psychopath = Born that way

Sociopath = Raised that way

Damn, my apologies: I give Trump the benefit of the doubt.

Wasn’t there a story that as a toddler, Trump glued his brothers blocks together because he did not want him to have any?

John Cusack@johncusack Why did Trump take the identification of American spies and their surveillance techniques and practices to his home and refuse to return them when ordered to? How could that possibly help make America Great again?

Haberman deserves the same fate as maga. He is not smart enough to pull this grift off on his own.

Haberman held back crucial evidence to be used as material for her novella about maga. Why does Haberman hate America?

Yeah, ANY benefit of doubt I ever had for Trump dissipated with January 6, 2021.

Now hearing he has illegal access to US secrets and the country’s counterintelligence is being killed en mass....leaves me to label him a [bold]psychopath.

Wake me up when he's arrested.

It was clear that maga was unfit for office on his campaign trail. But he was accommodated, he was lobbed softball questions and his rude,obnoxious behavior was sniggered at, not identified as conduct unbecoming.

Why did the American media accommodate an unworthy candidate?

Now I am wondering if Trump was advised to not file another pleading in Florida. Everything now is evidentiary. It’s weird that they did not a file a response to the other Judge that gave him questions to answer by today.

Mass suicide is an acceptable conclusion for maga and all of it's enablers.

^Million Dollar Question, R346.

Years from now historians will have a field day with this.

Think it was a confluence of factors: public weary of same, OLD (even though Trump is old) politicians, familiarity with the brand and reality-tv star, foreign interference, poor opposing candidate, etc.

One thing to note is that Trump unleashed the public display of the country’s overt ignorance and most base impulses. Now everything that was hidden is coming out of the woodwork. People are feeling more free to just let their low ethics rip.

[quote] Now hearing he has illegal access to US secrets and the country’s counterintelligence is being killed en mass....leaves me to label him a psychopath.

[quote] —Not a MAGAT who gives Trump the “benefit of doubt”

Nice of you trying to derail this thread with semantics. Good luck with that.

R347, could you kindly expound in this? Some of us are not as familiar with the legal nuances....

TIA.

No one has ever said maga is smart, not even his own parents. A grifter knows how to read people and knows most people are too polite to hold him accountable for his rude behavior.

The Trump stolen docs story will keep getting worse. Take the most horrifying thing you can imagine being the truth and multiply it by a factor of a million and you will still end up underestimating how bad this is. If you’re still defending him, you’ll regret it. Trust me.

Stolen docs and stolen SCOTUS seats.

SCOTUS has gone rogue and has reversed legal precedents after candidate swore to uphold legal precedent.

It's so bad, there's no way they cannot charge him...period...it WILL happen.

It is not about charging him, its about rounding them all up.

R351, It’s the other FL matter before Judge Aileen Cannon. It doesn’t appear that Trump complied with her request. I have seen no reports that he filed a supplemental brief.

They may charge him, but with a slap on the wrist, like serving his sentence at Mar-a-Lago.

The Curious Case of Alvin Bragg

By @AWeissmann_

An expert analysis of how @ManhattanDA #AlvinBragg may be playing a multi-level chess game in prosecution of Trump entities and associates.

Expect civil unrest, summer is almost over. I'd rather have civil unrest in the fall or winter. Maga turds are going to lose their shit.

Manafort gave Kilimnik/Putin internal polls so Putin would know where to get Trump 77k votes for an electoral college win even tho Hillary won. On election night Trump got secret exit polls BEFORE POLLS CLOSED showing he lost and where. Then 77k votes divided just right appeared.

Trump is with Anna and Lindsey.

At every turn, Lindsey is seen mixed-up in this sordid stuff.

I agree with this post on Twitter-

He sold the names of US assets and they were killed. We know where this is going. If they’re willing to say so (they may not for fear of the effects), I think the polling data in ‘16 told them where to hack votes to get just enough in the right places to be plausible. He lost.

[quote]It's so bad, there's no way they cannot charge him...period...it WILL happen.

They'll have to. This has gone so far that they can't just drop it now without causing a lot of anger among voters who WILL take it out on Democrats at the polls in 2024, mostly by just staying home because they're sick of the corruption and lack of accountability.

I'm almost certain there will be charges. However, I still don't think there's going to be jail time. It'll probably be a quick charge, then plea deal involving a huge fine, while Trump is assigned Secret Service babysitters who will keep his rallies and shit-stirring to a minimum.

[quote]Why did the American media accommodate an unworthy candidate?

For profits, because his shenanigans brought in the ratings, plus a lot of media owners are Republicans and wanted any Republican they could get into office, also for financial reasons.

The FIRST time Maggie Haberman reached out to me was TEN months AFTER she wrote TWO FALSE and DEFAMATORY stories about ME. Maggie did NOT reach out to confirm ANY information. She was GIVEN the exclusive & wrote it & protected Trump ALL of these years!

[quote]Why the f*ck does Mar-a-Lago have a secret tunnel?

The tunnels are original to the home, apparently.

Besides the tunnel that goes to the sea, there's also a tunnel linking the home to the Bath and Tennis Club buildings next door, which was originally installed by Marjorie Merriwether Post who was a member of the club. Hilariously, when Trump first bought MAL, he was denied membership. I don't believe he ever actually got in.

are pukes that starved for 😺 r362? The ugliest Russian whores.

Butuina moved around through society

I wonder why Steven Miller is panicking at this very moment?what could Stephen Miller have done that would make him panic like Steven Miller is panicking right now… I wonder what Steven Miller had done.

This is a puke version of a femme fatale

Maggie Haberman needs to be arrested and tossed into the gulag along with the rest of them.

R366 yes, Maggie Haberman is the Trump “ protector.”.

There is video of Stephen Miller being gently but firmly removed offstage by his former classmates who wouldn't endure his trolling during a school presentation.

They will have to kill Trump. He will never not be a danger to this country, even from prison.

To me, it is quite telling that the FBI is treating Donald Trump with kid gloves. They don't protect "(inter)national interest", they protect the conservatives and their agenda. Every single conservative government official is treated like shit and thrown under the bus by Trump, but they don't do what is necessary to get rid of him or retaliate, even now. Reluctant, that's what they are. A liberal doing even 1/10th of this would be dead in a ditch somewhere by now.

Reality Winner got 5 years for sharing a document in a whistleblowing mission. A Liberal. Let us see what a right wing conservative gets for sharing thousands of them.

The link doesn't work, r371. Try again? I'm interested in seeing that.

R363, that is exactly what happened in 2016 and further in 2000.

Remember way back in 2000 it came down to the state of Florida. A state governed by a candidates brother who appointed the attorney general who oversaw the election results. Just coincidence, huh?

That is why dump was calling electors in 2020, telling them to find 11,780 votes for him. THIS WAS DONE SUCCESSFULLY MORE THAN ONCE.

R378- Try this one .

Strange that Dominion didn't seem bothered in 2016 by the final results not coming from their voting machines. Or was it an "oh, we found some uncounted mail-in votes!" issue? I can see that happening in the mid-terms and 2024 with so many Deplorables trying to meddle with local election votes counting.

Just a little humor.

Jon Cooper @joncoopertweets · 15h If Trump is ultimately convicted of ESPIONAGE, shouldn’t all of his picks for the Supreme Court be ANNULLED?

Fuckass TFG needs to be tried by a MILITARY TRIBUNAL and his dead body disposed of as they see fit! The only “proof” of justice being served is an unmistakable picture of his dead corpse, ala Osama Bin Laden. And Fuckass TFG should have his dead corpse dumped into the ocean with no known info of where it was dumped.

That Fuckass TFG is as much an enemy and terrorist, traitor bastard as Osama Bin Ladin and he deserves the same fate as any enemy of our nation.

Done. Over. End of story.

[quote]It’s weird that they did not a file a response to the other Judge that gave him questions to answer by today.

They filed a late-night response yesterday.

R384- In addition to the covid deaths that he is responsible for, we will never know how many that are dead because of him. He is a mass murderer. How many military personnel are dead because he allowed a bounty to put on their heads?

That's what he always does. Stall until the last minute to stall furthe. The terrible typos and wrongly filed motions are a deliberate stalling tactic, too where judges are supposed to grant extra time for his lawyers to file things properly.

Stephen Miller @StephenM · 18h The idea, spelled out in the affidavit, that the Archives sicced the FBI on President Trump—on the premise that unelected bureaucrats, not POTUS, had final authority on national security—can only be construed as an attempt to overthrow our entire democratic constitutional order.

Sorry,

Stall until the last minute to stall further.

Trump has basically implied that there will be violence if the DOJ continues to pursue its investigation of him.

Don't think for a moment that there aren't tons of people around this country mobilizing to back Trump if he's indicted. My redneck wing nut Republican cousin in Missouri posted this in our group cousin chat the other day, and it chilled me to the bone:

[quote]I went out and bought ten 30-round magazines a few weeks ago because of all the gun control talk. Should be good for a while. When I go to the public range here near my home, all 150 stalls are pretty much full morning till night. We have the world's largest standing army right here in the midwest! 🤠

First let me say I don’t believe for one second this is the case but if Trump took the documents unknowingly at the very least it shows up his utter incompetence. Even that should not be forgivable in a president. There should be nobody who deems him fit for the job after this. I find it so hard to accept the utter stupidity or complete lack of conscience of his followers.

I don't doubt that Stephen Miller is panicking, but that tweet is consistent with the general tenor of his personality.

Biden should decree an executive order where it's allowed to physically bitchslap conservatives who dare to bring up Hillary's Emails or Benghazi.

R390. Let’s see how your cousin holds up against US military forces - which Biden can order into combat at any time - to put down any delusional MAGAt(s).

R392- Then he is putting on an award winning act. He reeks of fear.

R384. here. Just wanted to clarify that Fuckass TFG was in fact our Commander In Chief if our US military forces while he was our (falsely-elected) US President. (2016-2020)

R393- Good! Let's see how brave they are when the military drones slice their treacherous asses into little pieces.

Stephen Miller will be tossed into jail directly after Trump. Anything coming from him is utter nonsense.

I hope he eats a million more burgers, fries and ice cream!

Don Jr. tweets about his dad's dick in response to the release of the affidavit.

R390, yeah just like those, what, 5 people who showed up to protest when Trump cried about his home being "raided."

Jan. 6 was Trump's chance to show the world just how hard his supporters would go for him. Instead they showed the world that his most dedicated supporters were a bunch of cosplaying Viking losers.

R401- Perfectly stated.

Look. Trump didn't do this by himself. Back in 2018? Remember when it was alleged that Jared gave his new BFF, MBS the names of people who were informing on him within the Saudi Kingdom? Assets we had? And that fucker went after them. The story died quickly because the CIA did not want media attention on it. They were scrambling to fix it.

Now when Trump was getting ready to leave office, he had about two weeks to pack his shit. But there is certainly a strong possibility that he was secreting documents all along, for months, taking them to Mar A Lago AND Bedminster and possibly NYC. IMO they need a search warrant for all his offices and residences. Anywhere he spent time.

And the main thing is this: HE did not do this by himself. He had help. He fought hard to get Jared a security clearance. Mark Meadows had one. And if anyone knows where to find stuff and what might be valuable, it would be former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn, who was in and out of that WH even after he got fired.

I think Rudy may have even been part of it. Don't forget, Rudy has been running back and forth to Ukraine for years, just like Manafort has. Rudy has been involved with some very shady types and made some money off "clients" in Ukraine. Don't be surprised if we later learn there was a Ukraine thread in this mess. (Wouldn't it be ironic if Zelensky's Intel alerted Biden's people? )

The Proud Boys and the Oathkeepers have been compromised thanks to January 6th. We know a lot about them. Some have gone to jail, etc. I don't think they're as strong as they once were and I'd think they're finding it difficult to recruit new people. They still pose a real threat. But we are much more aware of them, and I'm pretty sure the FBI is watching them closely. We may have some violence. Maybe a few skirmishes.

Listen I think the MAGAt army is full of cowards and the actual physical threat from most of them is way overblown. However, there are some who have military training and are dangerous. Fighting them now will be easier than fighting them later. Bullies get more powerful the longer you appease them, not weaker. The only way past is through.

I don’t think we are paying enough attention to the fact that Trump wrote in his own handwriting on the classified documents. That was the most shocking thing to me in the affidavit. It destroys any “he was unaware” defenses. And WHAT DID HE WRITE? The left that part unredacted for a reason.

There always has been and will continue to be violence from the right--they are gunned up psychos. But the real threat is the people who are systematically undermining democracy at every level. The violence is a side show to distract from that.

As usual, I agree with ElderLez.

At pleas and sentencings, some of the PBs and OKs charged with federal crimes for Jan 6th, turned on Trump. They blamed Trump.

It took a while (unsurprisingly), but it finally dawned on them that they will be swinging a tin cup against jail bars, while Trump will be swinging a golf club at Mar-A-Lago.

Trump blazed a hot path to the nearest microphone to talk about pardons for Jan 6th criminals after Stuart Rhodes, head of the Oath Keepers, who is, right now, held in federal jail on sedition charges, publicly stated that they were doing Trump's bidding.

Trump is shitting bricks.

I don't care how deep is his pathology. At some level, Trump knows this shit is real, serious, and Garland is not fucking around.

What r406 said, too.

It is a miscalculation to believe only right-wing fanatics and urban gangs own firearms.

R409- Yep.

Kash Patel was the one guy with experience, contacts, and previous access to some of the most sensitive intelligence in the United States of America. (If you don’t know his bio, it’s worth a look) His role in all of this has to be staggering. Kash is going to prison, too.

It is disgusting seeing supposedly “mainstream media” figures, such as Maggie Haberman, coming-up with casual and innocence-oriented reasons Trump had transported and held classified documents at, Mar-a-Lago.

There are too many Fox News yappers to cite as being immensely irresponsible. Center the blame for that on Lachlan Murdoch and dad, Rupert. Until lame Congress initiates hearings and acts, these multi-billionaires are not changing.

From Twitter: Imagine that, right now, some country has its scientists building counter-measures to some of the most sophisticated and advanced weaponry the US possesses, because Donald Trump sold them the intel that would tell them how to do that. This is the kind of thing that is possible.

R413 - that’s why Republicans shouldn’t be supporting him. No one should. He should be persona non grata to every person in the US.

proud boas? are cops.

Blue on blue crime?

[quote]I think Rudy may have even been part of it.

He is absolutely part of it. He's the one who helped orchestrate the hacking of Hunter Biden's phone or cloud storage, which they put on a laptop, and had Rudy help concoct a fake story about its origins. You can't tell me that he's not also part of whatever is going on with these classified records.

People often forget that, while he was "America's Mayor," he helped take down the Italian mafia, yet didn't do much of anything to the Russian mafia.

Back when the NY Post published real news, they broke the story that Rudy's campaign got funds from the Russian mob. He's probably been in with the Russians for as long as Trump has.

we are gonna put the "successful" businesses people can provide leadership that "career politicians" can not to rest after this disgusting episode.

Dump was broke before being gifted that awful reality show which he used to GRIFT. Dumps businesses were declared bankrupt 6 times. How successful is that? THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA WILL NOT BE HIS 7TH BANKRUPTCY

Sounds like Trump Co drafted their late night brief at a bar.

I'm not sure anyone here is saying that R409. But it's also good to remember that most of these gunned up Trump supporter are not willing to go to "battle" against the feds, the military, or even local police. These people are mostly cowards who want an easy target. They are gunned up for their pretend war with Mexicans, Muslims, and Blacks and they want a Dear Leader who will sanction that.

It is very obvious that us Liberals underestimated Trump and those who are backing him (Putin, the Mercers, American Media Inc., etc.).

Trump has legitimized right-wing extremism where incels going on shooting sprees and killing people is supposedly the same, or less evil, than getting canceled on social media by liberal snowflakes. There have always been idiots who support the Republican Party despite it's against their own best interest, and the media is gladly showing how "passionate" these idiots are. There'll always be an excuse why Deplorables are angry at the Liberals and always threatening with militia action, because they can't win any argument. But, as we have seen in the past, Deplorables blinded by rage are not good and effective warriors no charismatic leader on their side can change that since their blind rage is considered an asset by the likes of Steve Bannon who rather prefer chaos.

[quote] Stephen Miller will be tossed into jail directly after Trump.

I think given the chain of command, Miller goes to prison before Trump, maybe gets thrown under the bus by Trump to stall his own fate going to prison.

Spiro Agnew’s Ghost @SpiroAgnewGhost · 9m 🚨BREAKING: Deranged attorney Lin Wood said he had been subpoenaed to appear before Fani Willis’ special grand jury in GA investigating Trump's efforts to overturn the results of the 2020 election. “The devil is after me today!!!" Wood said in a statement shared on Friday.

Can we at least all agree that this experiment of handing the world’s most powerful office to a dumb TV host & shady real estate developer with no government knowledge, 6 bankruptcies, 68 charges of sexual assault, 7,300 lawsuits and $1,000,000,000 in debt did not go well at all?

The longer it takes Merrick (Garfinkle) Garland to indict and arrest this Fattass Orange Menace, the more defeated we law-abiding Americans have to suffer through this insane miscarriage of justice. You already know that the DOJ knows 10X-100X times more than they are publicly disclosing. It is a fact that more than a few intel CIA/NSA agents have been killed/erased due to FUCKASS TFG’s treason. So why the fuck is Garland NOT pulling the trigger already? Believe me, the DOJ IS WORKING BACKWARDS to account for many dead US undercover agents around the world and this small man is worrying about how things will play out in the press and worrying about upsetting MAGAts. Enough already! Just do your fucking job, Garland! FCS!

Garland is rounding them all up. Dump? Didn't do this on his own.

It would be interesting to see how many of those documents are related to the training of anti-Assad forces and their location in Syria. And how that info was used in Russian bombings there.

R424. Well, I don’t see anything against the likes of Mark Meadows, Josh Hawley, Lindsey Graham…I could go on to name every fucking enabling Puke, but I don’t see any of them being indicted. So how TF does anyone think Garland has ensnared any of them?

Duh best lawyuhs

I think if Dump had these documents and gave/sold them, and the government has proof, the government has to come clean. They have to declassify and reveal the proof. We are going after a President (a greedy, stupid President), so the country needs proof.

Where does he find these dumb "lawyers"? On OnlyFans? At a strip mall in NJ?

That man and his term in office has brought such shame and disgrace upon the American people. It is enraging.

Dump doesn't pay his bills. Even high priced law firms want to get paid. Eventually.

We knew he was affiliated with Russia very early on. My head nearly swiveled off my neck when he said this:

The DOJ can only reveal so much in the interest of national security. That is why TFG (fake) Donald Fuck needs to be tried by a military tribunal where the media does not have access to publicize. It is a non-disclosed trial against military personnel (in this case, the Commander in Chief) that is tried by a select military panel to determine whether the defendant has committed espionage and/or treason.

R428 please stop with this rhetoric. DOJ may be trying to protect people who have been compromised, or trying to avoid tipping off potential defendants/witnesses as to what they have. Even though the classification system is a mess and overinclusive, there's a reason a good chunk of this stuff was marked top secret. They can't just set that aside to satisfy your curiosity.

That is when he needed to be put in his place, r432? Here he is on the campaign trail boasting he does not pay taxes.

Tax cheats belong in prison, not on stage as a presidential candidate.

It turns out the redacted information is the names of witnesses and sensitive classified information that was stolen and sold for 2 billion dollars?

The media was and is on this disgusting spectacle. Dump is not a rival of Hillary Clinton. Clinton is an accomplished public servant and Dump is a feckless party boi. He didn't belong on the same stage with Clinton.

When you've lost Karl Rove...

Karl Rove, Dick Cheney owe a share in the degradation of American democratic values.

You sound tense, r426.

[quote]The DOJ can only reveal so much in the interest of national security.

Both Frank Figliuzzi and Clint Watts have said Trump might not be prosecuted because the intelligence community will say the information involved is too sensitive to revealed in court.

[quote]We knew he was affiliated with Russia very early on

Yes we did, r432...

Was Ivana kgb? Melanie too?

Alan Dershowitz sees sufficient evidence to indict Trump in affidavit

Alan Dershowitz said there was currently enough evidence to indict former president Trump based on his reading of the highly redacted FBI affidavit.

“Any grand jury in DC would indict Trump on the evidence that he had classified material in violation of various statutes,” Dershowitz, 83, told The Post by phone Saturday — but cautioned the Department of Justice from pursing the case.

The Harvard law professor cited the failure of the probe to meet what he called the Nixon and Clinton tests, the former being the need to establish broad bipartisan support, and the latter being a demonstration that Trump’s conduct is materially worse than Hillary Clinton’s own past mishandling of classified information.

Getting a search warrant is easy to do, and a grand jury will indict a ham sandwich so that is why we need prosecutorial discretion,” said Dershowitz, a Trump ally and part of the former president’s defense team during his first impeachment trial.

Dershowitz said public anger should be directed not at Judge Reinhart for sighing off on the search, but rather Attorney General Merrick Garland for seeking the warrant in the first place.

“By the DOJ’s own regulations, you don’t seek a search warrant unless that’s the only way you can get the material,” Dershowitz said.

The highly redacted FBI affidavit justifying the raid makes clear the feds were looking for classified government secrets they believed were on the premises of Trump’s Mar-a-Lago golf estate.

Of the 184 classified documents retrieved, 25 were marked as top secret, 92 were labeled secret and another 67 were confidential, the affidavit says.

Republicans have largely condemned the entire probe, with Trump himself calling it a witch hunt.

you all spew the same thing. save it for something new.

Yes we did, r432...

Thank you for sharing, r445.

Dershowitz is an old dolt paid to comment on Fox News who is completely untrustworthy. Frequent flyer on Epstein’s Lolita Express.

I’d be OK with a military tribunal if that’s a legal possibility.

I think Watts and Figluizzi aren’t giving adequate weight to the concern that it will be hard to recruit human assets going forward if Trump doesn’t face catastrophic consequences. I am sure groups like the FSB are already using his perfidy as “proof” that the US can’t be trusted to protect its informants.

Do you think he gave the Taliban classified information out of spite?

I will give Trump a yuuuuuuuuge benefit of the doubt and say borrowing from Russians doesn’t mean you are politically aligned with them / a traitor.

But that July 2016 request (that Russia or China hack Hillary’s emails) left no doubt.

It was so bizarre, shocking, and self-destructive I couldn’t believe it. And somehow he was let off the hook.

The U.S. intelligence community will evaluate the potential national security risks stemming from former President Donald Trump’s possession of top-secret documents at his Mar-a-Lago residence, Director of National Intelligence Avril Haines told top lawmakers in a letter yesterday.

Fascinating that many here are giving Trump “the benefit of the doubt”. Perhaps that’s why he was able to enter the White House in spite of all his failures?

For many other individuals, I get giving “the benefit of doubt”. But this is Trump here we are talking about. Just when the man has sunk to the lowest point possible. he manages to go even lower. It’s phenomenal.

Is this why Trump is consistently underestimated? Honestly, why are people so quick to ascribe “benefits” to the guy in light of his abhorrent behaviour? MAGATs do this, but even those who find him appalling do it. It’s mystifying. ???

My “benefit of the doubt” was more like a “for the sake of argument, let’s assume.”

It’s been clear to me he’s a piece of shit since the 80s.

Just imagine being selected for a jury tasked with the job of sending Shitler to PRISON. You would be sweating bullets every day. It's VERY difficult for me to imagine this being doable, as a practical matter.

[quote]It’s been clear to me he’s a piece of shit since the 80s.

Same here, r453...

R454- I would have no problem being on that jury. Why would you?

If this goes to trial with a civilian jury, some piece of shit would park their keister across the street from the "secret" jury entrance, get video of the jurors going in, post it to Twitter, and within seconds a few thousand of online alt-right losers would be trying to dox you (and worse) for the rest of your life.

^Uh, maybe continual concern about being assassinated. To solve that problem we'll just empanel a group of 12 who have NO problem convicting him. That'll be a useful criterion to start out with...LOL. Just wait and see. I DON'T believe this is ever going to happen, actually. Not that he doesn't richly deserve to go to prison. -R455

I'm assuming because it's putting a target on your back, if nothing else, r456.

R457- That is a chance I would take.

Well, r460, I think that's the brave and right choice, but it isn't going to be as easy a one for some people.

That's not the point, r460. Jurors' lives would be in danger, regardless of how you personally feel about it.

Again, how would imprisoning Trump work? Would the Secret Service become his guards?

The Maggie Habermans and Alan Dershowitzs are Trump enablers and part of the damage that occurred. They are not voicing solutions to any of this. Dismissiveness and spin are not what is needed. Shame on cable media.

R462- So this fucking walking disease should be able to intimidate a jury? Oh, hell no. Even the most dangerous mob bosses were put on trial and convicted, so this worthless POS can be too.

Motherfucking Trump sold the names of our foreign spies and sources, didn't he?

Motherfucking Trump.

This particular mob boss was President of the USA, r465. It puts a complicated spin on things. This isn't a TV show.

He could lose Secret Service protection if impeached again, no?

R467- Correct, it isn't. Which is why it is of the upmost importance that he be held accountable for his crimes and not be allowed to intimidate the justice system.

*and convicted by the Senate this time.

R486- I hope the fat bastard loses the free government Insurance we pay for.

[quote][R467]- Correct, it isn't. Which is why it is of the upmost importance that he be held accountable for his crimes and not be allowed to intimidate the justice system.

r469- And of even greater importance that the DOJ be methodical and precise...made more difficult by these being uncharted waters. This isn't Gotti.

Jewelry designer unmasked as Russian spy luring NATO chiefs into honeytraps

R472- Well of course they must be very methodical. My post was referencing the person who said he should not stand trial because his cult would target the jury.

R441 that makes no sense. There are procedures in place for handling this type of evidence in court--it's not as though no one has been prosecuted for their handling of sensitive material before. Aside from that, Trump had documents of varying classification in his possession. Even if in theory he couldn't be charged for the most sensitive stuff, that wouldn't preclude prosecuting him for others.

HUnny Putin will have an oligarch pay for Trump getting a lawyer...except Putin is having so many problems right now he may not get around to it. BTW: DO NOT FORGET OR OVERLOOK MICHAEL FLYNN'S CULPABILITY IN ALL OF THIS. The insurrection and the assistance with the classified documents. IMO He may be found with a gun in his hand and a bullet hole that goes in thrugh the roof of his mouth and out the back of his head.

What is the point of the patriot act if it cant be used for these people

I didn't take it as them saying he *shouldn't* stand trial, r474. I think they were pointing out what serving on that jury would entail. It certainly wouldn't be an easy choice for me to be on that jury. I believe I would, but your life as you know it is going to change significantly.

serve on a jury and write a book!

R478- Thank you and I apologize if I misinterpreted what the point he/she was making.

Selling the names of U.S. (and allies) to foreign sources whereby intelligence assets are seriously compromised and agents (spies) and foreign informants are tortured and killed, is deserving of the death penalty if convicted.

The orange con-man needs to face applicable charges.

Poo10 uses these seductive women posing as rich aristocrats to gather intelligence and have access to western leaders.

Gosh, imagine who and what was used to compromise Miss Lindzebelle.

I'm all for execution, anything less wouldn't be justice.

“But Vlad, please don’t make us spit-roast that ladybugs elder ladyboi before a hidden camera. We will do anything for the motherland, but please not that!”

Very scary timeline broken down in detail.

1. 7/31/2019: Trump spoke with Putin (NYT)

2. 8/3/2019: Trump issued a request for a list of top US spies (The Daily Beast)

3. 10/5/2021: "CIA Admits to Losing Dozens of Informants". (NYT)

4. 8/26/2022: Documents at MAL Could Compromise Human Intel (NYT)

[quote]There are procedures in place for handling this type of evidence in court--it's not as though no one has been prosecuted for their handling of sensitive material before.

Perhaps, but both Figliuzzi and Watts said they've had cases where the CIA, NSA et al have come to them and said yeah, this guy is guilty but you can't prosecute because the information is too sensitive.

^ If Trump had a few documents that were all top secret, that might be an issue. But he had hundreds of varying classifications. Some may be too sensitive, but not all.

Even his foreign allies and enablers in Russia Chiina nd yes, the USA, know he lacks discretion. He is high risk. Use him as a tool to gain access to what you want, but his shelf life has expired. So do not be surprised if he has a "stroke" sits drooling in a wheelchair as a photo op, and then dies of "Natural Causes a few months later. He is becoming a liability. Here's the thing. Putin made sure Trump had minders. THey have also been grooming others. So pay attention.

A judge at trial can order certain details in documents not to be disclosed at the government’s request for national security reasons, Either side could appeal a decision, but it is hard to believe federal judges would agree to disclose national security secrets.

In this moment, those who love this country—Democrats, Independents and mainstream Republicans—must be stronger, more determined, and more committed to saving America than MAGA Republicans are committed to destroying America.

Agree, R489, but the Judge may not necessarily have access to them either. From what I am reading and seeing this is major bad shit, right now. It is HUGE. It is the worst possible thing. The FBI Counter Intel people and the CIA people who are going throuogh all the stuff making assessments of the damage, would like to hang his ass immediately. As I said earlier, I think they will insist he does time for obstruction, but the violation of the Secrets Act and the Espioniage they will not go to court with it. Not charge him. But rest assured he is going to pay with his life.

R486, R487 makes a very good point. He doesn’t need to be prosecuted based on mishandling highly classified material. The obstruction charges alone could get him up to twenty years.

Wow. That tweet from Biden is pretty bold. True. But bold to come dramatically for MAGA as an official presidential account. Here’s my prediction: Meticulous Garland has even more on Trump. Some of this will be exposed. Repubs will begin distancing themselves quietly behind closed doors. This + Jan 6th+ Developing Georgia Lawsuit + Roe v Wade will show results in November: the Senate will pick up a few seats and the House will scrape by with the hair of a chinny chin chin. Also wild card: Desantis will also be out due to a scandal. Charlie Crist is Florida’s new gov.

Hmm. Not sure if I trust this Trump appointee.

R494- I just read this. It concerned me, and then I realized- this CUNT (Trump) is fucked this time. He really is.

I found it odd that she said her intent is to appoint a special master, when she literally knows nothing about the case. Maybe she wants attention as a new Trump judge.

I’ve heard some talking heads on TV say that appointing a Special Master in the case may not be bad for the DoJ. It could be someone with significant intelligence experience in the military or other security agencies. The credentials would need to be impeccable. It could be a retiree with no conflict of interest.

Trump may want Ginni Thomas for the role. But that won’t happen.

I don’t trust this judge, including the fact that that she was chosen by Trump and his attorneys.

R498- Same, not at all.

I’m going to state something with 100% certainty, as much as it physically pains me to acknowledge because I’d give anything for it NOT to be true: Trump gave away state secrets all throughout his “Presidency,” including every meeting he had with Putin, Russian officials, and MBS

ABC Sunday news promo: " The Fallout of Biden's Student Loan Bailout". and " President Trumps Legal Problems, The Raid on MaraLargo".

American corporate media hates American democracy and hates Americans.

Why is this judge asking for information under seal? Can’t she just ask Judge Reinhardt? I think they are in the same court. She seems bossy and nosy, before receiving DOJ arguments. It’s not even clear she has jurisdiction for the potential charges. Maybe she is a Federalist Society member.

Miz Lindz & Murdoch’s Fox. Grasping for non-existent straws.

Does she not have an appointment in Georgia she is desperately trying to avoid?

I agree with R500. Trump was placed in the WH to do just that, and to make sure our foreign policy was supportive of Putin's goals. Withdrawing from NATO; supporting his war with Ukraine, etc.

I’ve worked on cases with special masters that literally went on for years. It’s also giving Trump a chance trout out and test mouthpieces in conjunction with the hearing. Conservative media is already spinning it that she decided to grant his request. I have a feeling she wants to grandstand it. Her writing is C-

Compare: how DOJ is handling Trump's classified documents crimes w/how DOJ handled another such case

Well, at least Trump’s attorneys gave rye government this softball:

“The redacted acted Affidavit underscores why this Motion should be granted, as it provides almost no information that would allow Movant to understand why the raid took place, or what was taken from his home,"

^ the government

MAGAts just lying nonstop.

[quote] Trump was placed in the WH to do just that, and to make sure our foreign policy was supportive of Putin's goals. Withdrawing from NATO; supporting his war with Ukraine, etc.

The sad truth is that the people in power and the super rich (like 1% rich) benefit from chaos and war. That is why they create chaos, confusion, distraction, and war. The masses rather "keep up with the Kardashians" and go at each other's throat than take a stand against the rotten to the core power structure of our society.

Will Judge Loose Cannon televise the Thursday hearing?

Any reputable judge would tell them it is too late for a special master. It took them w hat, 2 weeks to even file? then they fucked it all up and had to redo it.

r512, it's all about the stalling with Trump and his team. Delay, stall, hoping the other side is worn down and gives up or something significant changes like some Trump loyalist saves him somehow.

I’m honestly not understanding her logic. For Cohen and Rudy, a Special Master made sense sine they were attorneys. Trump is not an attorney. And even if there were WH attorney-client communications taken then they would be archived and don’t belong to Trump.

There already is a taint team to weed out any documents that are not responsive to the warrant, and DNI is also looking at classified documents for risk.

It would be funny if they only returned a few STD pamphlets back to Trump.

A special master would have to have a level of clearance not available outside the system. Unless some past DNS was willing. Truth is legally the Special MAster is really not applicable to this case. The Taint Team is handling that function.

R514 Perhaps this isn’t about logic; it’s about delay and creating doubt.

Also, this Trump-appointed justice might be compromised. An ideal court appointee in Trump’s mind likely is one who can be threatened, blackmailed, and even double-crossed after acquiescing to the blackmail.

Former Supreme Court Justice Kennedy may have become compromised because his son was a major financial conduit between Trump and Putin/Russian oligarchs at Deutsche Bank. Suddenly, Justice Kennedy retires with only a month’s notice and three months before the 2018 midterm elections. And then Kavanaugh takes Kennedy’s seat. A video (link below) taken after Kavanaugh's swearing in ceremony shows a collegial Trump and Justice Kennedy walking away and talking, and suddenly Kennedy stops abruptly, says what appears to be "Now, wait a minute" and points his finger at Trump while continuing talking. Trump simply keeps walking. It may be wild speculation, but it's possible Trump being Trump simply couldn't wait to tell Kennedy he'd been double-crossed because his son would NOT have Trump's protection if it came to that.

Never put anything past Trump and whoever discusses/argues strategies with him.

The Florida judge is 41. She was ranked qualified but not well qualified. Clearly she has nothing to do if she is writing orders on a Saturday. She’s already tipped her hand a couple of times now that she wants to help Trump before she knows any facts.

I’m starting to lean toward charging fat ass for obstruction because it would be difficult to nail him for espionage. The DOJ would have to prove beyond reasonable doubt that he actually, physically handed top secret info to a foreign entity. TFG did not transfer anything physically to anyone - he had other people do it.

R517. Wow! Good find. You can practically read Kennedy’s lips. “You can’t do that!”. That asshole is pure evil. He made a similar quip to Melania after he took the oath of office. Suddenly, she stopped smiling and looked terrified.

What is "TFG"?

Earlier tonight I saw Trump referred to on Twitter as "The Manchurian Canteloupe."

R520 Her husband turned around and told her Fuck U. Jared and Ivanka looked thrilled.

TFG= The former guy, for people who don't even want to see or type his name.

Thanks, r523.

If the judge is a Trump appointee she can not be allowed to be involved in this. Period. DOJ needs to find away to take her out of the equation. Accuse her of complicit behavior. We cannot allow Trump to slither out of this with protection from judges.

[quote]We cannot allow Trump to slither out of this with protection from judges.

We also can't allow our judicial system to be bastardized so that only Democratic appointees can judge Republican cases, and vice versa.

[quote] We also can't allow our judicial system to be bastardized so that only Democratic appointees can judge Republican cases, and vice versa.

For that, impartial judges would be required. Good luck finding those, especially on the conservative side.

R526, except for maybe the Supreme Court, judges don’t pick the cases coming to them. At the trial level, they are assigned randomly within the court depending on the particular geography and nature of the type of claim. I suppose there is always room for funny business anywhere, but cases aren’t assigned based on political party.

I'm aware of that, R528, I'm responding to R525's desire to keep a Republican judge from presiding over a Trump case. That would set a very bad precedent.

Trump's filing was procedurally deficient, no proof of service, no complaint stating a cause of action, and DOJ hasn't even been able to respond yet. Put this judge on the long list of Republicans who have decided "fuck it, Trump can just do what he wants."

No, it wouldn’t.

Mary Trump comments.

Jared’s Newsweek says it.

[quote]My post was referencing the person who said he should not stand trial because his cult would target the jury.

I didn't say that. You were deliberately misrepresenting what some of us were saying, just to start a fight. NO ONE said he shouldn't stand trial.

I Don't believe this judge was "randomly" selected. I think there are ways to manipulate the system at Trump's level. He really shouldn't even have his lawyers filing in her district. Start there. And of course there are districts and judges friendlier to him than others. Florida is as corrupt as they come. And the Federal Bench is not necessarily immune from those machinations. Insiders at the courthouse can share the rotation, etc. there are all kinds of ways. One thing is sure. I totally agree that any judge he appointed would be tainted. There is no justification for a special master. None. And it would be totally incharacter for some nutcase judge that is a Trump supporter to insist that the FBI Taint team's review of the documents has to be done over. She could rule that since they did it absent a special master, they have to re-do it with a Special master.

Trump appointments should be excluded from any involvement, period.

He is an enemy of the State and all actions under his tenure are actions of a hostile foreign agent.

What to redact:

[quote]If the judge is a Trump appointee she can not be allowed to be involved in this.

A number of judges he appointed have ruled against him in various matters.

R533- You are full of shit.

The hypothesis is the dumps have been shopping state secrets around the world immediately after taking office.

R530 - doesn't matter so long as it was filed in time. Courts almost always allow deficient documents to be-refiled as amended, corrected, as erratas, and so on. It's the time-stamp beating the deadline that counts. Having worked in the legal industry, we filed many a shoddy brief to meet a deadline then filed amended briefs the next day or two after notifying the court that the deficient brief should be removed from the docket once the amended one was filed. It's definitely a tactic of delay in complicated or large cases.

[quote]The hypothesis is the dumps have been shopping state secrets around the world immediately after taking office

I'm still not getting why people are shocked or even surprised by this.

"Pssss, hey you, do ya wanna buy like, access codes to like the US, like nukes"?

'like, I don't have em like right now, but my dad can like totally hook you up".

From Saturday’s Washington Post:

The Archives battle to secure records from Trump began while he was still president, according to records reviewed by The Post. Gary M. Stern, the agency’s top lawyer, began asking the former president’s attorneys to return two dozen boxes in the residency of the White House before he left. In an email Stern wrote to others, Trump’s counsel, Pat Cipollone, agreed with him. But Trump did not return them.

Again, they don’t come right out and say it, but the above paragraph just screams that there were many people aware of the very “odd” fact that Trump liked to keep top secret compartmentalized information in the residence and were acutely aware of the danger that he might take them.

Then the Washington Post buried the lede a bit. This paragraph is simply shocking in light of all we’ve read to this point. According to Stephanie Grisham, Trump’s director of communications at the time:

Boxes of documents even came with Trump on foreign travel, following him to hotel rooms around the world — including countries considered foreign adversaries of the United States.

“There was no rhyme or reason — it was classified documents on top of newspapers on top of papers people printed out of things they wanted him to read. The boxes were never organized,” Grisham said. “He’d want to get work done on long trips so he’d just rummage through the boxes. That was our filing system.”

Whaddaya mean taken around the world for no reason.

Everything is done for the grift.

Everything.

I suppose it's maybe, possibly, sorta-kinda possible that he took top secret classified information around with him just because he was a disorganized moron, but even then, it meant those documents were in situations where someone with nefarious intent could have access to them.

And it doesn't explain why he sued to keep those documents.

Uh-huh.

orbtastic

"I got your back."

His defenders want us to believe that someone else packed those boxes and he didn't know about the top secret documents....

I haven’t read through all the replies, just most of them but I want to hop in and add to something posted earlier about countries now having info to possibly defend against our weapons systems.

That’s not all they have. Our grid is also considered national security. Idk if any of you all remember way back right after 9/11 when there were various assessments regarding buildings, bridges, power stations, dams and the like.

I remember reading about a civil engineer who had looked at the overall grid of the US and had found areas where multiple grids met. He presented this to - idk- congress maybe? Or at a conference somewhere? Whatever happened, the FBI took possession of the report, asked the guy not to talk about it publicly again because it was a national security issue and that was the end of it.

Now that information is in the hands of our enemies. Think what would happen if the entire US grid went down in the winter for a few days. Weeks, even.

Now think of what would happen if the grid went down or just “blipped” on election night in 2024.

THAT is what the goddamned motherfucking traitor and his cocksucking GQP enablers have done. We are utterly vulnerable.

R540 it absolutely does matter. Trump is not some pro se litigant filing a handwritten motion on paper. He is monied and has attorneys who can and should be directed to immediately fix the procedural defects. DOJ has not even been SERVED, let alone had time to respond, and she's already signaled that she's going to grant his request.

[quote]On the matter of former President Donald Trump’s removal of classified documents to his Florida property, here are a couple of things that have come to mind. First, how did he get those boxes of documents past the Secret Service when he moved from the White House? Were they marked as “personal” (”Justice Department provides judge with redacted Trump affidavit from Mar-a-Lago FBI search,” Aug. 25)? I’m sure that he wasn’t going to use documents marked as “Top Secret” or the even higher security designations as a basis for his memoirs. So why did he want those files? One possibility, although it may sound outlandish at first blush when one thinks about it, may hold the answer. With his open “bromance” with Vladimir Putin, and his affinity for praising dictators and despots like Xi Jinping of China, Kim Jong-un of North Korea, Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, among others, Mr. Trump may have had planned to hold an open auction for the documents. Sell American secrets to the highest bidder. I’m sure that any one of those mentioned would pay millions simply for one page as a sampler in order to undercut our country. Imagine what Mr. Putin would pay for a complete record of CIA operatives. It could run into the billions of dollars. Xi would almost bankrupt China to find out our defense secrets, as would Kim Jong-un. The Saudis could possibly out bid all of the others for the complete package as well as providing Mr. Trump with a safe haven away from prosecution by the U.S. The wailing about the “raid” and “occupation” of his estate is only meant to deflect our attention from the real intent of the former president.

When prosecution approaches, will the Trumps & associated culprits flee to Saudi Arabia?

[quote] The hypothesis is the dumps have been shopping state secrets around the world immediately after taking office.

That is so untrue. We stayed in Trump hotels, because they are so great and luxurious, and we bought overpriced Trump properties because they are so highly valuable!

R545 unfortunately for Trump, there is no "disorganized moron" defense for these crimes. Because imagine how dumb every defendant will suddenly be if there was.

Interesting that a google search of Trump today reveals only small talking points about the documents. I thought on a Sunday, the news would be blowing up about the stuff. Roy Blunt was questioned about it on Meet The Press. He attempted to dodge and duck but ultimately said Trump should have surrendered the documents.

Ya think?

Why is the newscape so eerily quiet about the subject?

Because it's gotten harder and harder to defend him or minimize what he did.

Yes -- I'm sure all the Sunday shows reached out to the usual Trump defenders, and they all declined to appear.

Sunday shows discussed a raid on the President house. Not a severe threat to American democracy.

R551 - Sure, it matters from a basic procedural standpoint and an ethical one too I suppose. However, the legal world runs on its specified technicalities. If they met the timing deadline for filing with the court, but were deficient on everything else, including service, they are still permitted to re-file and get the rest of it right. Most judges will allow for that, especially for response and reply briefs. Thus, filing deficient docs or being deficient in service to the other parties is often used as a delay tactic. We already know Trump's main ploy is to delay. Why would his legal team be any different? I don't hear of too many cases where a judge threw out a case or wrote a judgment against a party because they submitted a shitty document or didn't serve the other parties. If they make those same mistakes a second time after being given time to correct, then yes, a stern judge might grant a motion against the deficient party, but the process will continue to move forward regardless. It's a stodgy, slow-moving process.

R543, that further refutes the idea put out by those around Trump (who else would know?) that he never paid attention to anything and never read anything. They were lying to us about him. Who thought any of this was a good idea? Who let highly classified documents be taken from from secure rooms? So many people violated their oaths of office to enable Trump.

R551 - Also, if the judge grants a motion that was filed deficiently and not corrected, or denies a party's motion when the other side's reply briefs didn't follow procedure, then unfortunately it's up to the party being disadvantaged to file new motions regarding Trump's lawyers being deficient according to established law. It's all infuriatingly technicality-based. It becomes a filing of motions back and forth between parties which takes up a lot of time and pretty much derails the case. See where this is going in this situation? Trump doesn't care that his lawyers are barely competent, he wants them to muck up the works with procedural blips and delays. I'm not saying I approve of any of this in any way, I'm merely relating what I know of this type of legal process after 30 plus years in the industry and dealing with the back and forth between parties of various court filings.

I just like carrying top secret documents around for good luck. Move along, folks, nothing to see here

Looking back I can now understand why Vindeman got fired. It wasn't only because he testified. It was because he too his job seriously and he probably knew about all the many violations with classified documents.

On another track: I can't help but wonder if at least some of the documents Trump had were related to Ukraine.

The federal legislative branch politicians are on extended vacation presently. Neither party is much together to deliver organized talking points.

Mitch McConnell is in no mood to rally support for Trump. He wants Trump gone.

Kevin ‘Affairs’ McCarthy appears on Fox shows with his dum-dum spills about Hunter Biden’s laptop. He’s deflecting from addressing Trump’s latest scandal.

Ukraine, Syria, and NATO deployment in Europe - the three topics Putin is interested in. Plus, whatever info his Saudi financiers asked him to procure.

I understand why putin and the Saudis hate America.

But why does dump hate America?

Created pt 4 for when this fills up. And no, troll that I’ve blocked, this isn’t ElderLez, although she is more than welcome to create follow on threads.

Some people take along comfort blankets or stuffed animals when they travel. I take comfort documents. So what, big deal.

He's a narcissistic sociopath, r567, it isn't about hate. It's about whatever benefits him, because in his world he's the only one who matters. He has no loyalty to anyone but himself.

"But why does dump hate America?But why does dump hate America?"

The only reason I can come up with is because American banks refused to give him loans so he started borrowing from Russia, but really idk.

ETA: Trump destroys everything he touches. Everything.

R560/R562, they have not been required to cure the defects. The judge just skipped over that part and has scheduled a hearing and required DOJ to respond by Tuesday to defective papers even though they haven't even been served yet.

The judge can and absolutely has the responsibility to deter frivolous filings and thwart delay tactics. The best way to do that is tell the petitioning party that they don't get what they want by inexcusably filing defective papers after an inexplicable delay of 2 weeks. Correct the defect FIRST, explain your delay, and then you get to proceed. That's how judges who manage their calendars well operate.

R573- Isn't that abuse of the courts? I do not know the correct term but there is one?

Not exactly, R574. This is one of those situations where judges have a lot of power with limited oversight. The courts have procedural rules that all parties, included unrepresented ones, must follow. But judges can and should have some flexibility in dealing with a party's failure to follow the rules. For example, we don't want a system where a judge will just outright dismiss a valid claim by a poor person with limited education and no attorney because they didn't get all the forms right (although there are some judges who would do just that). But at the other end of the spectrum, as I've argued here, judges should also not be lax about rules with lawyered up monied parties with a long history of delay tactics and who are in the midst of an investigation for literally obstruction.

There is also attorney/party conduct that is sanctionable and/or unethical, but it's hard to argue that if the judge is essentially going along with it. If a judge fails to apply the law correctly, and that includes procedural rules, you can appeal. If the conduct isn't rising to the level of something either an appellate court or ethics/judicial committee is going to step in and correct, then the judge and/or party is going to get away with it. Hopefully if this judge does the damage she appears to want to be doing, the 11th Circuit will fix it (and hopefully SCOTUS will just stay the fuck out of it).

Let's not forget that hundreds of thousands Americans died of COVID because he lied about it. Immigrant children were separated from their parents and locked up, some never seeing their families again because they can't be found. Throw just those two things into the stew along with the current situation and I see no other conclusion except death.

R576- Didn't he also allow a bounty to put on our military personnel? Am I remembering that correctly? This evil man has done so very much that it is difficult to remember every atrocity he has committed. Wtf was he allowed to destroy this country?

A vast right wing conspiracy, r577.

We, most of us here, have been terrified since that treacherous psychopath was allowed to walk into the WH. Most of us have real damage from the trauma such as anxiety and depression. For the ones who scolded us and told us we were overreacting - fuck you. Just fuck you.

R575- Thank you for explaining this to me. He will do everything to drag this out. Why can't he be arrested?

^ Well, to start, he hasn't been charged with anything. Yet (hopefully).

[quote] [Trump's lawyers] have not been required to cure the defects. The judge just skipped over that part and has scheduled a hearing and required DOJ to respond by Tuesday to defective papers even though they haven't even been served yet.

R573 Only Trump could do what he's done and then turn it around and put the DOJ on the defensive.

Remember folks, Trump keeps a copy of Hitler's "Mein Kampf" (translates to "My Struggle" or "My Battle") on his bedside table. It's probably the only book Trump has read and understood. Trump will never stop doing anything and everything he can to seize power over everything that affects his life. Like his hero Hitler, Trump will likely go on until his death, however that comes.

R582- There is no doubt about that. The question is will anyone stop him.

It is the question R583, and I fail to understand why no one has. Just stop him. It’s really that easy. He’s not a god. He’s not even a smart person. He’s a complete dipshit that under any other circumstances would be selling carpet at a Home Depot. Why is everyone so terrified by or enamored of this awful person? It’s so incredibly bizarre to me.

R584- Yes, it is just mind boggling. It was incomprehensible that he was ever allowed to be in such a position of power. He would not pass a security check. I will never understand why the people in charge of this country failed us so very badly.

Maybe he'll have an accident like a runaway golf cart with him in it. If that happens, don't look at me!

All we need is one sharp shooter at his golf course. Just saying...

I should say, as much as I'm side-eyeing the judge here, it is possible she is giving Trump every chance in order to protect her record if and when DOJ come back with a valid reason for her to dismiss. In theory that would thwart any appeal by Trump by giving DOJ the defense that Trump's errors were forgiven and the court was deferential to his application to the point of prejudicing them. In theory it would also forestall any complaints by the lunatic Trump fringe that he was treated unfairly.

The problem I have is the former is unnecessary and the latter is pointless (Trump and his loser brigade are going to cry victim no matter how much crap he gets away with). So I keep circling back to my suspicion that this judge wants to help him by at a bare minimum letting him throw monkey wrenches into the process at every turn to cause delay and mayhem.

"The problem i have is the former is unnecessary and the latter is pointless (trump and his loser brigade are going to cry victim no matter how much crap he gets away with). so i keep circling back to my suspicion that this judge wants to help him by at a bare minimum letting him throw monkey wrenches into the process at every turn to cause delay and mayhem."

This is exactly what I fear will happen.

Don't worry, the documents are safe. I keep them next to the Hitler speeches by my bedside, tied up with a pretty pink bow

R585, our intelligence services have been more than willing to kill the leaders of other countries—what are we, chopped liver? Why do we have to suffer?

The link below has a list of just a fraction of the legal proceedings against Trump during his lifetime, and yet he's still not in prison. A current thread titled "Why Did FBI Help Trump Become President" reminded me that organized crime rackets like Trump's are sometimes infiltrated by government informants. Given Trump's domestic and foreign business entanglements, that could mean both FBI and CIA informants. It's possible Trump has been a useful idiot not only to the Republican Party, but also to US government intelligence gathering. Imagine the complications of keeping Trump informed of intelligence reports about threats to the US, while not revealing who is infiltrating his own company. Luckily, Trump apparently didn't have the patience to listen to intelligence reports, which would have made the task easier. And then, ironically enough, Trump takes intelligence documents he's not authorized to have, to do whatever he wants with them. It's like spy vs. counterspy.

What I am saying is: there is likely something very complicated going on with Trump and his company to have had this amount of legally questionable activity going on and yet somehow Trump is still not in jail or at least being found guilty of anything.

R592- That is a great site, thank you. My God, the list is simply staggering.

R589 No, the DOJ will stomp on her and she'll fold.

Do you think American's will actually demand justice?

[quote]I will never understand why the people in charge of this country failed us so very badly.

Then you don't understand Republicans, r585.

R596- Were there no democrats in charge at all?

We’re living through a hostile takeover of the greatest experiment in self-governance in history and most people don’t even know it’s happening and the rest are either egging it on or too busy to deal or in denial—and every day we get closer to never getting our independence back

In accordance with DL tradition, I'm going to use up a last message in this thread with the name of a not-so-well known Broadway musical.

A Bronx Tale. It's about a young man that has a mob-boss mentor.

Get it?

Whoop-Up

Listen to the song titled "Men."

R592 just to be clear, most of those are civil cases. All the potential criminal cases are currently pending investigations.