"Daddy, I think I've made a really terrible mistake..."

OP, dear, we're still chatting on this other thread.....perhaps we can visit at this new one once the Snyder one is full/paywalled.

When Ed tells them a second time to "open a second line on her," I just lose it.

My best friend, with whom I watched GL over the phone, had died four months earlier in a hospital, and watching Maureen die brought it all back. Seeing Ed. Then Lillian. Still brings it back.

This was from when shows has much more craft than they do today.

Soaps lost their way in the 90s because they thought they had to James Bond themselves to get anybody to care. The simplicity got lost. In the mind of a soap, shock and awe became more compelling television than relationships, and it’s just not, I’m sorry.

r4 the formula is so simple, it amazes me that they chose to stray from it.

[quote]the formula is so simple, it amazes me that they chose to stray from it.

It's also much better suited for today's greatly curtailed production budgets -- yet none of the remaining soaps have gotten back to basics with their storytelling. Afraid of chasing off the scant audiences they do have, I guess.

Pam Long was the greatest daytime writer.

We recently discussed the beauty of Maureen Garrett's acting, and how she usually underplayed a moment versus serving ham.

Much of Maeve's work is similarly underplayed. She may have been a bit of a spoiled bitch at first but her later work was much more nuanced.

[quote] When Ed tells them a second time to "open a second line on her," I just lose it.

Sorry to interrupt your mourning, R2 - might you recall which clip that's in?

It happens in this clip, r9.

[quote] "Daddy, I think I've made a really terrible mistake..."

Darling, I think I've made a terrible error, too.

I only tipped my escort 20 bucks, and I feel this is far short of what he deserved! Will he ever do an outcall to me again?

Henry Chamberlain had a BIG cock!

Poor Ed, he used his fuck around chip, got his wife killed and made his daughter a mess and he did it all for.....

Lillian Raines?

Lillian thought she was dying of breast cancer so he threw her a pity fuck.

So sad.

This was late 1992/early early 1993.

GL had lost in 1990: Zimmer, Grant, Beth C, Robert Newman, Kassie, and O'Leary. But the show handled those major losses just fine by thrusting Alex, Roger, Vanessa, Alan-Michael, Ed and Maureen into forefront.

I'd heard that Ellen was axed so they could open up money for Deas to come on as Buzz; what a waste.

Even IF you're going to kill Maureen and yes, there was some great story that came out of this, then have Claire AND Hope come back right away and help raise Michelle.

The show could have done an Ed/Holly/Fletcher/Claire quadrangle. Hope would have been around to fill the role left by Bert and Maureen. She was Alan-Michael's mother.

GL was unwatchable in last 1993 and 1994. I welcomed Reva back in 1995. But then we headed to San Cristobel and the mob and then the show was gutted and a mess. God bless Jill Hurst for bringing back favorites and sending the show out in style; tho those cameras were unforgivable.

Jill Hurst was every bit a fuck up as Kreizman, Swajeski et all.

That was one of the issues, R14 - GL didn't have anyone after Maureen's death that was really willing to take on the maternal role.

Some people liked Maureen more than others, but I don't think GL realized what they'd lost until the story was done. And the writers were so angry about having to kill her off that they did one of the best stories GL ever had re her death, so that everyone would miss her!

I think Maureen's death being forced on the show by CBS/P&G was a sign that nothing would be sacred, and eventually, most shows lost characters like Maureen. Budget cuts meant older vets and maternal/paternal characters were gone, and you get a show like GH, where everything was Carly/Sonny/Jason for 20 years or so.

[quote] I'd heard that Ellen was axed so they could open up money for Deas to come on as Buzz; what a waste.

JFP did a Locher Room - not sure how reliable her word is but she said that was not the case. The story about Maureen and the focus groups did appear to be true, though.

Yes, because Ellen Parker was making the same money as Justin Deas. lolololololol

[quote]I think Maureen's death being forced on the show by CBS/P&G was a sign that nothing would be sacred, and eventually, most shows lost characters like Maureen.

I've never heard Maureen death was coming from CBS or P&G before. Have only ever heard that it was coming from JFP.

On the other hand, Frankie Frame's death on AW was apparently at the insistence of NBC. The network wanted the serial killer to get rid of someone important to the show rather than a day player(s). Originally Donna Love was supposed to be the victim, but that was ultimately changed to Frankie Frame.

JFP is sort of unreliable about the whole Maureen thing because she's been blamed for it.

But I think the Curlee/Demorest Locher Room also said that the push for Maureen to be off canvas originated higher up.

The focus group was part of it, but there was no denying that JFP had the hots for Justin Deas (definitely not reciprocated) and wanted to bring him on, which required a big salary. I am forever grateful to her for trying to keep Kim Zimmer off the show in 1995 when she was actively campaigning to come back (alas, eventually CBS overruled her) but her fixation on Deas and making Buzz Cooper the god of fifth street was almost as grating. Who can forget the entire Buzz-centric episode during the fifth street fire, where he lies down on the diner sign and prays for rain. I secretly prayed for him to get electrocuted so he would shut up.

Who the fuck cares who killed BOREen Bauer!! A focus group. Bye bye boring Maureen. She was so fucking boring! Her death drove great story!

The Buzz love really was weird... I didn't hate Buzz but he was the focus of a lot. They even let Buzz(Justin Deas) smoke towards the end... when was the last time that was seen on a sopa

Killing off Maureen to bring on Buzz was the show trading the matriarchal system (which is the key to soaps) for the patriarchal primetime model.

I quit watching shortly after they killed Maureen. Buzz was annoying. There was a big power failure in Springfield. I didn't stick around after that happened.

I quit watching after they stopped showing a closeup of Kelly's Speedo.

I so looked forward to that...it was VERY inspirational.

Well, Grandma, I'd invite my friend Philip over, but he might poke your eye out.

Over the years, I've seen quite a few GL (and other Proctor and Gamble) actors on the NY stage, including Ellen Parker, Grant Aleksandr, Anna Holbrook, Mark Pinter, Steve Schneider, Irene Dailey, Denise Pence and Laurence Lau. When I saw EP, I had a bit of nostalgia (did for most of them), but next to Irene, seeing her made me miss her all the more. Irene, opposite Frank Langella in Strindberg's "The Father", was very moving. I didn't care for the play Parker was in, but I felt a twinge of sadness that Maureen had been killed off. For a character that had been on the show for just over 10 years, it felt so much longer, and should have gone on.

Meryl Streep has such a personal connection to Guiding Light, I'm surprised she never did an arc on the show, maybe as a recast for Hope Bauer? Not only is Maeve her sister in law but I'm sure I read somewhere that Meryl went to drama school with Ellen Parker.

R28 She should have popped into town with A. Martinez on her arm while Marcy Walker was playing Grapefruit Hill. A catfight between her and Walker would have been great. Or maybe Meryl as a recast of Carrie Todd Market. The possibilities are endless!

[quote]I think Maureen's death being forced on the show by CBS/P&G was a sign that nothing would be sacred, and eventually, most shows lost characters like Maureen.

[quote]But I think the Curlee/Demorest Locher Room also said that the push for Maureen to be off canvas originated higher up.

Just got through rewatching the Locher Room episode with Nancy Curlee and Stephen Demorest, who were HWs of GL in the early 1990s.

When Alan asks about killing off Maureen Bauer in 1993, they say the idea came from JFP. She approached them saying she had some ideas for things she wanted to do with Ed.

No where in the video do they say anything about CBS or P&G insisting they kill off Maureen.

The discussion of Maureen starts at about 54:00 in the video below.

It fits that JFP would advocate for Maureen’s death. She made sure to get rid of a handful of beloved vets or treat them dismissively, on each show she helmed.

She seemed to really dislike older women in particular.

JFP was a cuntessa di tutte contesse.

[quote] Meryl Streep has such a personal connection to Guiding Light, I'm surprised she never did an arc on the show.

She does not have "such" a personal connection. Her sister in law was in the cast.

Meryl would never have done a soap - ever, ever, ever.

And yet once Maureen was gone, Ed had nothing to do and was paired with Eve Guthrie. Blech.

R30 Thanks for finding the actual conversation and clarifying what was said. Otherwise this is exactly how the misinformation starts and a show’s history becomes a soup of inaccuracies. I look at the GL FB pages sometimes and there will be a topic like ‘name some BTS issues at GL’ and it’s just the same stuff repeated over and over again, most of it details that people have made up in their own minds, but that’s what's out there as 'truth' now. I’d love some GL discussion that’s not harping about the same 4 subjects - Maureen Bauer’s death, Michael Zaslow’s firing, Justin Deas’ salary, or Beverly McKinsey’s contract.

No one is doing these type of low-key writing anymore, because only old people would watch it. Do you honestly think anyone in the 18-49 demo would watch that type of show, let alone even know what a soap is.

JFP had to make, or get behind, or sign off on the decision to kill off Maureen and I'm sure Nancy and Stephen remember it correctly, that the edict came to them from JFP.

But that decision was one that started with CBS and/or P&G, and based at least in part on the poor results the Maureen character had during focus groups.

Five years later, the same would happen with the Reva clone story. At the time, Paul Rauch really sold that story as something unique and seemed to get behind it. Years later, he admitted that CBS had really forced GL to do the story. But part of the EP's job is to take those kinds of decisions, back them and present them to the cast/crew.

I agree misinformation is frustrating. We always hear the old "Pam Long hated the Bauers!" when again, CBS was behind some of those decisions and wanted to replace the old fuddy duddy Bauers with new energy. It's not that some of those things aren't true - Pam *did* write some of those characters out, and JFP *did* task Curlee/Demorest with writing Maureen out. But there was more to it behind the scenes.

(And, frustratingly, most of the Locher Room participants still toe a PR line, and won't be honest or more forthcoming about things, even if it happened 30 years ago or more.)

I don't understand gay men's fascination with soaps. much less one that's been off the air for 10+ years. I can understand yearning to see hot shirtless hunks, but I couldn't imagine watching them regularly for any other reason. You guys who get into the silly characters and inane storylines are basically fraus. Do you not understand that? One can see how people would think that gay men, for all intents and purposes, are psychologically and emotionally women.

R38 We really don't need feedback from an emotionally stunted individual. Your nonsense has been noted and ignored.

The loon, back with one of his sock puppets.

People who take soaps seriously are just sad. I mean, really sad, to the point of being pitied. Most intelligent people laugh at soaps and the people who get invested in them.

FF and ignore the oozing cuntscab at R41.

GL would've been watchable if they replaced low-energy Peter Simon and coma-inducing Ellen Parker with Dennis Cole and Shannon Tweed as Ed and Maureen. They would've brought sexiness to the homely Bauers. Bring on some Calvin Klein underwear model as nuRick, and you've got a made to order Bauer family with sex appeal through the roof. Ditto for Vanessa. I'm sure Maeve is a lovely person, but she is also very low-energy. They should've snapped up Brenda Dickson to play nuVanessa when Y&R dumped her.

No one takes his soaps more seriously than spicen. I suspect r41 r38 is some other asshole.

Anyway, darling, let me pour you some tea.

My family and friends rejected me because I was "different" and I latched on to people like Mac Cory and Kim Hughes who loved unconditionally as my surrogate parents. They were so real to me. I could've told them anything about me and they would still love me.

R44 It's the Shannon Tweed/Cam Mathison troll.

R37 Bottom line is, it's complex. But fans don't get it - they think it's one person's wish or edict when it's a web of politics and reactions to stupid things like focus groups, fan pressure, internal preferences, etc.

And about Paul Rauch - he was a lying sack of shit. He was the type to take credit when it was good and blame when it was bad. Had the clone been a success, he would have been out there saying it was his baby whether at the time or years later. I think that's true of a lot of EP's in fact, and that's another thing to keep in mind. Even people who were involved in these events and decisions are going to blur the lines depending on how good or bad they seem in retrospect.

r47 Hmmm. I thought I had him blocked already.

Was Mickey Against Daytime Drama gone yet when they decided to kill off Maureen?

The gays think that network execs and EP’s and writers listen to them. In fact, they LAUGH at the gays. Gay male viewers are not desired by advertisers on the soaps. They aim for a female audience. Thus, the execs, producers and writers always aim for the female demo. Not gay males. And it doesn’t help that the gay male nutjobs want every male character to be gay. The writers truly do laugh at male fans.

I loved the San Cristobel storylines. They were everything. The show finally broke out of the "the show your grandmother watched" mentality and became hip and sexy for the first time. I actually wouldn't have minded if they moved the setting from Springfield to San Cristobel. Good stuff!

r47, he is also known as the Drew Dixon troll.

[quote]Was Mickey Against Daytime Drama gone yet when they decided to kill off Maureen?

She hadn't even arrived yet.

Maureen was killed onscreen in January 1993. MADD took over as head of P&G production in 1996.

The P&G production head at the time of Maureen's death was still Ed Trach, but he was in the process of retiring. Kenneth Fitts replaced him. I think Ed was still officially on the job, but was training Kenneth to take over for him.

Mickey was still at ABC then

[quote]But that decision was one that started with CBS and/or P&G, and based at least in part on the poor results the Maureen character had during focus groups.

Watch the interview. Curlee and Demorest make it clear that it was JFP's idea.

Clearly the network and P&G supported the idea of killing Maureen, but it was JFP's idea. The idea originated with JFP and no one else.

JFP herself has even acknowledged in interviews that it was her idea, while at the same time saying she is not responsible for Frankie Frame's death.

The focus groups supported the idea to kill of Maureen, but focus groups are all about what questions you ask and how your phrase them. Ask a question a different way, you'll get different results.

As for the Reva clone story, we've always known that CBS execs were the ones pushing to do that story in an attempt to copy the success of Days. That was made clear in press interviews at the time.

Similarly, we've always known that CBS in the early 80s was pushing to phase out the Bauers and the Hughes. That was in the press. Although there was a much smaller number of soap mags at the time, but the info was out there.

R16, I caught some of that Locher room; the timing was clear -- Harley and Mallet weren't at Moe's funeral b/c they were in DC looking for Buzz's name on the wall. Ellen out, Justin in.

Jill said some BS about bringing 'A' listers onto GL. Um. What did she think Maeve, Jerry, Beverlee, Zas, Peter and Maureen were? If she wanted GL A-listers she should have gone after Mary Kay, Grant...

She infected Springfield with Santa Barbara actors Justin Deas, Marj Dusay, that guy who played Bunny, Christopher Norris and others. Crampton was a miscast Mindy.

CBS had to insist that she bring back Zimmer; they compromised by making her a ghost and then, Megan MacTavish explained that Amish Reva in a coma projected an astral image to Annie and Josh.

Michael Laibson thank God was producing the show by the time Josh and Reva reunited on the plane. That shit was Zimmer's fourth Emmy. Kimberly Brown was robbed in the younger category.

Three former GL writers celebrate the 70th anniversary of the show's debut on television with a Locher Room session on Thursday.

GL debuted on radio on Jan. 25, 1937.

GL started on TV on June 30, 1952.

"What was your first day like?"

*SLAP*

*SLAP*

*SLAP*

Vee, who is the biz, ordered the cancellation of TGL. That show was lost once it dropped THE from the title and fired Fat Ed.

Anybody know the story with Michael Laibson? He was brought in to replace JFP when Paul Rauch wasn’t available and they paired him up with Megan McTavish as headwriter. (Imagine if Rauch/McTavish had worked out - what an unholy clusterfuck combo THAT would have been.)

Anywho, he seemed pretty ineffective and let McTavish run amok til half the cast left (Peter Simon, Amelia Marshall, Rick Hearst, Maeve Kinkead) and the show was in the toilet creatively (what they did to Roger, the Annie/Josh land of wishes hopes and dreams, the save fifth street shit on the regular). Both Laibson and McTavish were canned and they brought in Paul Rauch with Brown/Esensten as writers. As I recall, they asked Laibson to come back in 2002 after Rauch’s dismissal, but he (rightly) told them no.

Laibson seems to be one of the few EPs that didn’t get circulated around and destroy shows until retirement age. He was in a recent Locher Room (the Lisa Brown tribute) but he spoke very little except for a story about when he was sick and Lisa had visited him in the hospital.

Michael Laibson did a decent Job on AW. He stabilized it with Donna Swajeski, using Lemay’s outline.

Why did P&G Do that Executive Producer swap in the mid 90s?It seemed like a failure and by 1997 all three were dismissed from their new shows.

Laibson was ineffective at GL. He really didn’t care. He was having weight issues and his biggest concern of each day was what time lunch was.

P&G should've brought FMB to GL instead. Susan Batten as nuVanessa, anyone?

The Maeve Kinkead thing is interesting because she really did want to leave, rather than just taking a break. When she left, the truth was that no one really knew if she was coming back. The 'year' timetable was put out there as a placeholder, but it could have been a few months, it could have been never. There were behind the scenes issues that she wanted resolved before she committed to coming back as a contract player.

Also, originally, they DID plan to recast the part so they could do those Switzerland check-ins of Vanessa getting sicker (the mystery illness) and eventually getting better. When Maeve heard this, she agreed to come in and film periodically (once or twice a month) during her leave.

R65 Are you knowledgeable as to what the behind the scenes issues were?

I think most of us assumed conflict with Rauch had to be in the mix. I'm curious what the other things might have been.

R66 Wendy Moniz (who played her daughter Dinah) was a shitshow and she wanted her dealt with before she'd agree to return and subject herself to more tension and mud slinging. It didn't have anything to do with Paul Rauch. She made her decision to leave in December 1995 and actually stopped filming in August 1996. Paul Rauch wasn't named producer until November 1996. To be fair, once that happened, it put her return even more into question, but as it turned out, they seemed to both have moved beyond their prior issues and she signed a contract the following spring.

I thought it was Rauch that was making her dye her hair black.

Memory must me failing me.

Rauch had every right to make her dye her hair black. Her character was in a May-December relationship, and her with gray hair would've made her look like his grandmother.

Anyway....

If they couldn't get Shannon Tweed as Maureen, then they should've tried a few years later as nuVanessa. Most of the women on this show were just so lacking in energy and charisma, it was a chore to watch. Shannon would've shown them how it was done! She's really a terrific and underrated actress.

R67 knows nada. Wendy's antics didn't phase Maeve. Maeve hated the Reva/Cassie glorification train, and being subjected to having Laura Wright chew out Vanessa over Dinah. Very heavy handed, and very Rauch. Pushing Dinah off the show diminished Vanessa (not so much Ross) and Maeve saw the future as being bleak for her. She was encouraged when Labine was hired, but not enough to come back full tilt.

R69 Yeah this is one instance where I actually agree with Paul Rauch - so she was sick of dying their hair. So what? You have a contract and you play a character that's not supposed to look 100 years old on screen. She kept asking him (Rauch) if she could go gray and he kept saying no. It wasn't until she went off contract in June 1999 (when she was no longer bound by the stipulations of the show) that she stopped dying her hair.

R72 All of this happened after the fact. Again, Maeve decided to leave in December 1995 and actually left in August 1996. Kim Zimmer was barely back on the show at that point. They were playing Josh/Annie and Reva being paired with Buzz. Laura Wright wasn't on the show (she joined in August 1997). It had nothing to do with any of this and everything to do with Wendy Moniz.

Where Is Your Link For This Information?

Whichever actress was NOT found by Betty Rea was in the wrong. The legendary Betty Rea!

What do you remember about Betty Rea and your first day? Betty Rea… such a legend!

Boy, this show has really, really homely actors. ATWT too. I'm not saying everyone needs to look like a hair or underwear model, but c'mon, a little eye candy would be nice.

WAIT! I FIGURED IT OUT!

Vanessa....is Vee!

Why couldn't Maeve get Meryl to do a guest spot? Meryl was also friends with Ellen Parker. Was Meryl as bored as JFP's focus group by Parker?

did Maeve leave under Laibson?

I thought she left under Rauch; I think it was a brief medical leave not old issues that may or may not have happened at AW when she was Angie.

Funny story; Julia Barr's daughter was playing Lizzie till she went off to college and I believe she was one of the few actors who told Rauch, who wanted her to stay, "NO. I'm leaving."

Grant Aleksander was the one who suggested Barr's daughter as Lizzie, since he and Barr became good friends while he was on AMC in the early/mid-90s.

Darling, I think I've made a really terrible mistake. I accidentally sniffed Papa Bauer's boxers when I thought I was sniffing Kelly's. And now I have moths nesting in my nose.

[quote]Where Is Your Link For This Information?

Dahling, the correct way to post this inquiry on DL is as follows:

Link?

If you asked Rauch if you could paint your dressing room black, he'd say no, you have to paint it white and vice versa.

He was such a prick at times. I remember he changed a lot of the sets once with no on-air explanation; the Spaulding office set, Company, all changed to look 'hip' and modern.

Doug Marland redid Cedars hospital but wrote it into the show with Vanessa doing the makeover.

Maeve is so classy. She won her DT Emmy in 1992 and thanked both Doug Marland and Betty Rea.

If Maeve Kincaid did not want to dye her hair, wouldn't it have made sense for her to just wear a wig?

Didn’t Maeve also thank JFP, who gave new life to TGL?

How entitled can she be? Rauch should've just given Vanessa cancer and forced Maeve to shave her head.

Betty Rea was indeed wonderful, but she was getting a bit senile near the end. When they were recasting Maureen after Ellen Dolan left, they had planned on putting Maureen in a coma for a while to ease the transition. Gail Kobe's direction was to hire someone "who can act in a coma". Poor Betty misunderstood Gail, and thought she said to hire someone "who was coma-inducing," thus the hiring of Ellen Parker.

Maeve in 1990ish era looked just like Tracey Thorn of Everything but the Girl. Or vice versa.

Laura Wright is the worst thing to ever happen to soaps.

Going back to Maeve/the reason for leaving, all you have to do is look at the timing. Paul Rauch was not with the show. Laura Wright was not with the show. It was not yet the era of Zimmer eating the show alive (literally and figuratively) during her mid-90's return. Maeve cited burnout (as many actors would/do) and the show convinced her to take some time off (rather than outright leave) while they figured out shit behind the scenes.

Was there ever talk of moving Maeve over to ATWT?

Was Maeve another Beverlee? I’m so overworked even though I work less than 100 days a year. Oh poor me.

Bev was constantly holding up production with her demands. JFP was glad to be done with her. Maeve was always wanting to change her dialogue. It threw off everyone.

Maeve? Did someone call my name? Delia, is that you?

......

I recall reading in some soap magazine an editor suggesting that they recast Vanessa again with Anna Stuart, free from her contract with Another World which had been canceled and only making recurring appearances as Donna on As the World Turns. I don't believe that Maeve returned full time until 2002, and while I am a huge Anna fan I'm glad that Maeve got to play out Vanessa's story. At least Anna got AMC although for the most part, I feel she was wasted there.

Vee, who’s in the biz you know, wouldn’t let Maeve change her dialogue so Maeve kept coming and going over the years. Vee is in the biz you know.

Rent Boys of Springfield has been newly updated, including photos of our newest "model," Jimmy Paragon.

Is Jimmy as....pendulous as his father?

damn it where's my password?

R98 Maeve was on leave between September 1996 and May 1997, when she returned with a 2-year contract. After that she went recurring for about a year, during which they did that insipid story where Vanessa's illness came back and the character was unconscious in a bed for six months. She remained recurring until June 2000 - her last scenes were at that year's Bauer BBQ, just a face in the crowd. Her leading man at the time, Kurt McKinney, wasn't offered a new contract and left the show that fall (September 2000). They would both return as recurring players in July 2005.

Thirty (!) years ago, the lights went out in Springfield.

So well done. They just don't write or act 'em like that any more.

^Thank heavens, for that. It looked like a bad high school production.

Maeve, Jerry, Bill Roerick and Bev were all at one time English teachers. If they helped shape up the scripts good for them. Maeve's parents both wrote for The New Yorker. I can't imagine how she must have dreaded dealing with that loudmouth from Michigan, who was a fave of the soap press, because she dished all the dirt.

I didn't think it was in character for Vanessa to start popping pills, but then again I never had a kid with Billy Lewis.

Once Reva and Vanessa were positioned as foils, I'm sure both enjoyed it. Pam Long wrote a much more Vanessa-y Vanessa when she came back in 1987.

Trivia: Does anyone recall what Vanessa wanted to name her son before she gave in and went along with Harlan Billy Lewis, III?

That one I dont recall. I do remember what Harley first named Susan Lemay.

Maeve came back as Vanessa in the summer of 1989. Bev had taken a long leave of absence (to have a real life face lift) so Vanessa filled in as Alex's surrogate at Spaulding. Vanessa moved into dullard Maeve Stoddard's house, and yes Pam did start writing Vanessa as bitchier than before as she pursued Ross (who was involved with Nadine, then Holly), then boringly fall back in with Billy.

Where was Maeve's statement on Ray Liotta's passing?

Was Maeve gone that long in the 80s? I didn't remember her being gone ALL that long. I remember a refocus around 1988-89 when she was also involved with Alan - in fact, I thought they were engaged. I thought she was only back with Billy briefly, and then they broke it off again (around the time Jordan was arrested and they replaced him with that Dynasty actor).

I recently watched the Christmas 87 episode, the one where Kathleen Cullen visits as Amanda, and Alan and Vanessa are definitely an item.

.....

Which show was considered to have the homelier cast: GL or ATWT? I would give that dubious honor to ATWT, but only by a hair.

....

If lazy line-changing Maeve had dyed her hair, the show would still be on air.

Dahling… What about my facelift leave of absence in 1999?

Vanessa was off the show for 18 months, from Jan. 1988 until June 1989 .

During that time, she went to Venezuela to reunite with Billy. She returned to Springfield to work at Spaulding.

Detailed write up of the character's history at the link below.

Maeve is another low-energy actor that seemed to be the hallmark of this snoozefest of a soap. They should've scooped up the hypnotic Brenda Dickson to replace her after Y&R stupidly fired her. She would've set this dull show on fire! Maybe get John McCook to replace that fat slob Clarke as nuBilly. Brenda and John never worked together on Y&R, and it would've been interesting to see their dynamic on GL. Alas, another missed opportunity.

Daddy, I think I've made a really smelly dump. Be a darling and go to the powder room to check it out. I should never have had Brussels sprouts for dinner.

....

GL was a great show until Long and Kobe got their Texas hands on it. I know their stint was mosty very popular and commercially successful, but under them the show became much more plot driven and the relationships very shallow. Basically they dumbed it down tremendously.

....

****

Sorry, that's me. It's me trying to update the thread after The Loon has posted.

Harry, I think you've made a really terrible mistake A soap actress? Seriously?

So, who was Vanessa destined to be with? Billy or Matt?

Who was Vanessa's mother? Henry was clearly gay and never got within 10 yards of a vagina.

I don't think they ever did find an appropriate match for Vanessa. I adored Maeve Kincaid and thought Billy was beneath her and Matt too young. She needed someone more like David Forsyth,

Henry was very much into Kelly Nelson in those early days. Henry used to take his binoculars to Laurel Falls.

For at least a year before Jordan Clark debuted as Billy in May 1983, they made references to the Billy Lewis character.

It was generally Alan Spalding who'd mention him. Chris Bernau always managed to put an inflection in his voice that came across like Alan was rolling his eyes and shaking his head in disbelief.

Alan definitely created an impression of Billy as a bumbling fuck-up.

Vanessa and Josh always had great chemistry to me. And she made Ed interesting....well, as interesting as Ed can be.

They must have planned for Billy's arrival well before Pam, then.

I know at one point Jerry Lanning from TEXAS was slated to be Billy, but either CBS or P&G vetoed that idea. They didn't want too many TEXAS people flooding GL. Someone from the Texas cast was also up for Reva - one of the darker haired actresses, someone will know who.

Of course they ended up with Beverlee and Lisby Larson and others.

Nobody blames Maeve “I won’t dye my hair” Kinkead for TGL’s cancelation. If she had just dyed her hair, it would have goosed the ratings and saved the show!

It's like her face was ageless but she looked 20 years older with the grey hair. Most actors would do just about anything to stay/look young, but I always understood her to be completely without vanity.

Maeve was a ho-hum actress. She could've taken some pointers from real actors like Susan Lucci and Jamie Lynn Bauer and Emma Samms who had personality and charisma to spare.

TGL truly died when they renamed it Guiding Light.

They should have kept the name fat and never have dropped the "The". After all, there was fat Bert, fat Ed, fat Rick, fat Hope, fat Hillary, fat Bea, fat Steve Jackson, fat H.B., fat Josh, fat Billy, fat Henry, fat Barbara Thorpe, fat Beth, etc. The fat name of the show was so appropriate.

I have always loved that TYATR kept its fat name and never dropped “the.” It also lets Fat Traci, Fat Nina, and Fat Mariah appear from time to time.

Why aren't we still making appearances?

Why were the Bauers and the Lewises all so fat? I think the average BMI within those families was over 40.

I heard they liked cupcakes R142

Did the cast get along with Mary "Stewart"?

Does Maeve remember the first time she met Betty Rea?

Goodness, gracious. I leave for a few days and the riffraff take over, shitting all over these hallowed threads.

Time for me to start spot-cleaning this mess because I don't have time to do a thorough wash-down. Dr. Strange and Wanda are calling me, dontcha know! But when I and my rag return, there's gonna be big changes around here. Big changes!

The Bold and the Beautiful is basically Guiding Light with better production values, writing, and acting. And "The" still intact.

Ah yes, TBATB! My second fave next to TYATR! I love when soaps embrace “The” in their titles!

GL would still be on the air today if Maeve had dyed her hair, Maureen had not killed off, and "the" hadn't been dropped from its name. It was such a dynamic, vital series otherwise.

Daddy, I think I've made a terrible mistake in letting my hair go gray, because my lush bush is still its natural color. The carpet no longer matches the drapes.

HB Lewis was fat. Fat HB.

Hillary Bauer was obese, which is why she so easily fit in with the rest of the Bauer family. I mean, some people display banners saying "Live Love Laugh" in their kitchens. Bert's read "That Cake Isn't Going to Eat Itself, Dear." The Bauers had a long history of obesity.

What's 4th of July weekend without a little Bauer Barbecue? Heavy on the Vanessa, since this seems to have become her thread.

Was 1984 the year Ed grilled Bert's leg?

R154 LOL! He called it grilled leg of Bert!

Fat Reva ate most of it. She said it tasted part Jean Nate, part pot roast. Boreen used what was left over for soup stock.

That was the most interesting thing that Boreen ever did.

Wordy, Low Energy Maeve would never have fit in Pam Long's Texas. Unlike her sister in law, she could not do a Texas twang accent. The part of Ginny would have been the only role she could have played, Before she hit it big with Kramer vs Kramer, Meryl was offered the role of Ginny, but she turned it down. WLEM would have been shown up by the more talented Lisby Larson or Cathy Hickland. Maybe she could have played Dawn Marshall, but Dana Kimmell sort of made that role her own.

Lisby always seemed to be pulling up her chin when she talked.

"Denmish"

I liked Lisby Larson on Texas. She was quite good. Maybe it was the writing, but her GL stint was underwhelming. I'm surprised she didn't carve out a more successful soap career for herself. Maybe if she had been on a more high profile soap, that would've happened.

To me Lisby Larson always seemed like she could have been a Trish Lewis recast.

Pam Long didn't seem interested in writing for Trish. Other than her brief affair with Alan, I don't recall any of her stories under Long. I forgot that she had lasted a few years into Long's regime until I saw her on Locher's thing. Apparently Don Stewart was pushing for Mike to romance Trish.

Rebecca Hollen was a Mary Sue type, again a necessary prototype for soaps. To me, she would have been a perfect replacement for Trish Stewart's Chris Foster on Y&R. She was a better actress than Lynne Topping.

Why does Allan Locher insist on interviewing these veterans in huge groups instead of one on one?

R164 Because he doesn't know how to fill an hour of time with a legit conversation. He's still a PR person who just expects his guests to run the show.

I don't trash Locher because he was the one who started this and made it a thing. He seems to want to keep these interviews light and "nice" and polite, so I don't think it's fair to harshly criticize him. That being said, he does seem like someone who never watched any of these shows. Now, I think it's ridiculous to ask 70 year olds to talk about storyline specifics from 30 years ago, but at the same time you can talk about backstage stuff or what the general era was like and keep it interesting.

The best interview he's done is the Nancy Curlee interview. I wish more of his interviews were like that one, but then maybe it was Nancy doing all the heavy lifting.

The ones that aren't GL/ATWT-centered can be painful, unless the people he has on can carry the conversation. He doesn't even bother to do his research.

I don't get the Pollyanna vibe of the interviews where everything has to stay clean or he'll literally cut the conversation off and edit it later. I've also seen fan negativity removed from the comments in the videos. It's clear he's never going to work in PR again (otherwise this would have already turned into a profitable thing) so what's the deal? It's been over a decade if we're talking recent and in other cases 20, 30, 40 years.

Any chance we will get to hear Maeve comment on working with a then unknown Ray Liotta during her AW days ? Ray told an interviewer a few years back that Kathleen Widdoes was the best actress he ever worked with...

For some of the interviews, he lets them go on for 30+ minutes about their childhood or pre-soap work that nobody gives a fuck about. That was particularly bad with the Rosemary Prinz interview. He let her go on and on for for nearly 45 minutes about her father and her theater work, and spent a few minutes on her ATWT stint, maybe one quick mention of her time on AMC, and zero about Ryan's Hope or her other soap work. What a waste!

I loved his one with Eileen Fulton and I thank god he didn't fuck it up. She seemed to be really enjoying it, and when she said, "New York just isn't the same without me" I felt it in my bones!! She was wonderful.

Miss Locher should do a joint interview with Scott DeFreitas and Cameron Mathison. They had such different takes on Andy/Drew. Of course, if Scott can do it with his camera off and Cam can do it shirtless, all the better.

[quote]I don't get the Pollyanna vibe of the interviews where everything has to stay clean

I think that's his appeal to the actors he gets for his show. They are not going to be asked about anything unpleasant. They can talk about themselves and their history and keep it light.

He could try pushing the envelope a bit but I can tell you as someone who works in entertainment journalism (spare me the oxymoron remarks) that actors won't talk to outlets if they feel it's not going to be positive; plus, they have nothing to promote.

Some actors will balk at doing press when they're contractually bound and they have something to promote.

Did Vanessa want her gay Daddy to fuck her just as Iris wanted her gay Daddy to fuck her? I'm seeing parallels.

Miss Locher could have turned his show into something big, but he chose not to do that. Kim Zimmer and Eileen Fulton have no fucks to give and we all wanted to hear the scoop.

R148 lol. You do make me laugh every now and then.

R174 That makes sense for present-day commitments but the stuff about ATWT and GL was years and decades ago. A lot of the particulars that went into their employment no longer exist, and many have retired from the business (or the business has done it for them). Toeing the party line about something that's long over seems overkill. I'll never believe that a glory-hogging narc like Kim Zimmer, if given the opportunity, wouldn’t come on and spill her guts with every little tidbit she knows and love every second of it.

On the flip side, a lot of these actors (Zimmer excepted) probably couldn’t care less and have no interest in going there. I can think of a few chats were people weren’t exactly friendly back in the day but all these years later it’s water under the bridge and there’s no reason to sling mud.

I think your last paragraph says it all. At some point, the shit that went down decades ago just no longer matters and no one wants to talk about it. It's like high school, do you dwell on all the bad stuff or do you just focus on the fun moments.

Why can't Queen Locher get Michelle Forbes? Is she THAT embarrassed by her soap roots?

someday, someone should write a book about it all -- MADD calling Zaslow a wizened old man; P&G dumping so many of Doug's characters so as not to pay his estate (Susie Snyder spilled that tidbit, I think), why the fuck they let Ellen and David fire Grant back in 04 or 05; THAT killed the show IMHO.

And let some AMC and OLTL actors go on the record about how Frons and ABC handled the axing of those shows.

Wendy v Bob; letting Sonny and his guns become the main thrust of GH.

How Y&R went into a creative downward spiral after Bill died and Babs got rid of his old regime and brought on PC writer LML; gee, she only stayed a few years? Who didn't see THAT coming.

Maria, Josh, Jean and Shelly; Chuck; Mal Young; Sally. Chuck again; WHY does everything on Y&R happen off screen and 35 years ago?

R181 Unfortunately, the market for soap books is between slim and none. The Jeff Giles Llanview book got self published and might have sold a few thousand copies, because he was an editor at Ent Weekly for a bit and could promote it. But most other books would end up being academic (as the Elana Levine one was).

I'm not pooh poohing you, just a reality. I actually did preliminary research into doing the same kind of book as Giles did but about GL, and anyone who would write such a book would have had to spend their own money to do so, travel for interviews, etc.

When I first discovered Harding Lemay's book I thought it was great and the best account of soap writing ever put on the page, but as I got older I realized that it was only one side of the story. So you end of with a skewed view of how things really were, because no one else got a chance to share their side.

Did anyone read Bill Bell's book, that was the biggest bunch of PR drivel that I've ever read.

To cosign R182, I just think a no holds barred soap book is not something that would sell and all the people with all the most interesting stories are dead or old with faulty memories or just dont' want go down that road again.

Bill Bell's book was terrible, as was Jeanne Cooper's. Most soap books suck.

Whether it's books, interviews, etc. I think DURING the drama is when people are interested. That's when they care about a show and possibly the actors who they see as an extension of their own lives. I remember stories coming out of GL in the 90’s in particular, and everybody (as fans) acted like it was water cooler gossip. In retrospect years later, one, people stop caring and move on and, two, details get muddled.

Jill Farren Phelps should write a book. Seriously.

[quote]Did Vanessa want her gay Daddy to fuck her just as Iris wanted her gay Daddy to fuck her? I'm seeing parallels.

Soaps do tend to like their screwed-up parent-child relationships. Early Palmer-Nina had some vibes that Palmer thought of Nina in a not entirely wholesome way.

Didn't Where the Heart Is touch on incest?

R183, you're right about only getting one side in Lemay's book; he seemed to have a real hard on for Jacquie Courtney's bad acting. However, at one point in the tome he did acknowledge that there are qualities that make some people stars and Courtney had that over any other Alice.

Bill's widow co-authored his bio. It wasn't going to be a hatchet job.

Maeve’s book

Vanessa/Henry, Iris/Mac, Palmer/Nina—three father/daughter relationships on soaps with incestuous overtones. Two of the three fathers were played by big queens. And Douglass Watson was one of the most effeminate straight men on TV.

On GL Jenna was thought to be Henry's daughter for a while, which is part of the reason Vanessa hated her so badly in the beginning. Once they revealed that that was a lie, wasn't the plan at one point to pair Henry and Jenna, or was that just fan speculation?

Henry was in the park giving bj’s.

[quote]Bill's widow co-authored his bio. It wasn't going to be a hatchet job.

True, but my God. Talk about a white washing. Bill Bell was a great writer, but he was no saint.

And speaking of incest, I think GL was the only soap that actually went there. The other soaps played with Electra and Oedipal themes.

Sorry, but no, there was not even the tiniest of incestuous overtones to Henry's relationship with Vanessa.

Vanessa was spoiled rotten - one assumes - because her mother died very young, and Henry spoiled her, gave her everything she wanted.

R182 Unfortunately, the only people in the world who care are already posting in this thread :(

Beverlee was in two of the stories that flirted with incestuous undertones. Iris and her love for Mac, of course, was very obvious and only slightly subtextual. And then with Lujack and Alexandra - though that was far more subtle and only slightly hinted at - perhaps more so with Nick and Mindy.

I think as gay men we see a bit of an incestuous undertone between Bernau's Alan and Philip - either Grant or John B. But I doubt the fraulinas would have noticed.

I sometimes have nightmares about people that I worked with years ago and had otherwise forgotten about. I always wonder why is this coming up in my psyche now? There have been a few interesting differences of opinion from actors discussing their memories. Jada Rowland and Elizabeth Hubbard come to mind. Rowland seemed more down to earth and real. Hubbard acted like she was still playing Lucinda even though they were talking about Althea. The most cutting of the interviews that I've seen was Susan.Pratt and Jay Hammer. Neither held back. But for most of the others, it was like a friendly high school reunion, glad to see each other but not likely going to happen again.

Alan hacked so much of that Susan/Jay interview, it was ridiculous.

[quote]And speaking of incest, I think GL was the only soap that actually went there.

Loving did, too.

The person who keeps saying Wendy Moniz caused issues at GL is lying. She did the Locher Room and gushed about her time on GL, how she was a fan before she got the part, and how close she was to MK and JvD. They also gushed about her in a Locher Room interview.

The Clone storyline was one thing. It worked on some level though I didn’t like it. The walking through the painting into the past was fucking ridiculous.

GL was at various points the Beth show, the Reva show, the Harley show, the Buzz show. I don’t think it hurt the show when they focused on Beth or Reva- the show was still very balanced. Buzz was not that interesting or popular to be the focus of his looooong rants. Ditto with Harley. My god they tried to make her a saint, a superhero, a paragon of virtue. BE is a good actress but she was never all that pretty and Harley could be grating asf.

GL went there with half first cousins. (I still swear that Digest had a small item in the summer/early fall of 2004 before the story started where Kreizman said his parents were either first or second cousins.)

ATWT had Angel Lange and Henry Lange and Loving had what's his name and what's her name where Meg Snyder from ATWT was the daughter.

Loving had Garth and Lily Slater, but ABC demanded that the story be jettisoned asap, so that they could advertise Something About Amelia as the first handling of incest on network television. Agnes revisited incest with Ceara on AMC several years later.

I will say this just once- I blocked the troll a long time ago. I never realize when they post. Please don’t post saying, “oh look the troll with the sock puppets is back.” They never left. You just gave them attention. Block and ignore it all. If you don’t, I wonder if you’re a one of this person’s sock puppet accounts. On EVERY SOAP THREAD we get posters saying the same thing using the same language as I posted above. Hmmmm.

Just freaking ignore them!

Maeve's and McCunty's sense of entitlement was off the charts. For fuck sake, just dye your fucking hair. You're on a daytime soap paired up with a hot young hunk, not doing a geritol or sweatin to the oldies commercial. Suck it up and just be thankful you have an acting job and that they gave you a hot stud and got you away from that fat tub of lard Clarke. And poor McCunty, overworked with her 10-week vacations. Poor thing. I'm sure Darfur orphans' hearts went out to her, not to mention her co-stars whose airtime was diminished, and salaries affected, by her abrupt departure. I'm sure they all sympathized with her brutal schedule. Fuck!

Yes, Mommie Dearest! LOL

We do know, dearest R204. But I occasionally lose my cool and say something, because It has Worked My Last Nerve on that particular day.

R206 How do you know they post, dear, if you block them? You must want your nerves worked, Christina, if you don’t block them and have to tell us all they’ve posted when WE’VE blocked them. Very sus.

Maeve was very bitter. She said in an interview at the time basically that it was difficult for her to watch Alexandra and Reva basically become what Vanessa had been, and have Vanessa become a cloying frau. Maeve was low energy. I remember a scene with the equally low energy Peter Simon and Ellen Parker, I could swear I lapsed into a temporary coma. Vanessa was never interesting. She was one of those actors who barely registered, and the producers simply forgot to fire her. The equivalent of Lisa Brown on ATWT.

After that Matt Reardon storyline did Vanessa ever have another interesting story?

The storyline where she was revealed to be Bert Bauer's biological great-grandmother after she stopped dying her hair was a tour de force for dear old Maeve.

The producers brought in Scoche Marin (Katherine Chancellor, Y&R) to read for the part of a recast Vanessa during the late 90s to shake things up and reenergize the show, like she has on Y&R as Kay. TPTB simply had enough of Maeve refusing to dye her hair and changing all of her lines!

Bitch, get over yourself and dye your hair. You're doing a dumb soap for fuck sake.

How would Helen Wagner deal with this fucking SON troll

Was Meryl giving Maeve advice? For fuck sake it's a soap, not Silkwood. Go to the market, grab a container of loreal and die your fucking hair, moron.

I would have been the perfect Vanessa! I have made the role of Katherine Chancellor my own.

Here are my top 5 actresses who could potentially have played Vanessa when low energy Maeve was dropped. I guarantee that all of them would've dyed their hair and more if asked. See if you agree with any of these.

Lisa Rinna

Kimberlin Brown

Hunter Tylo

Alex Donnelly

Eva LaRue

r216 fuck off, troll!!!

R204/R207 I can tell the troll has posted because there's a gap of five or six numbers between posts I can see.

It's a shame....we had a few threads where they seemed to be lying low, or at least weren't very noticeable. But alas, like a case of herpes, they never really go away.

Ce fil est morte.

Rumor has it that a Ryan's Hope book is in the works, very similar to the Llanview one.

Who do we have to blow to get a GL/ATWT book like that? (please say it's the Pendulous One)

Which show had the most backstage drama.

I always heard it was Y&R and GH on the West Coast, and ATWT on the East Coast.

[quote]I occasionally lose my cool and say something, because It has Worked My Last Nerve on that particular day.

Then you don't have all four of Spicen's accounts blocked. He has at least four.

That mess has more accounts than Victoria Lord has personalities!

ATWT overall was NOT known for drama, though it had its moments through the years (a few feuds here and there).

GL and AMC have been cited as the friendliest sets.

r220

WHat book about OLTL?

r225, he may mean this book:

He's referring to Llanview in the Afternoon: An Oral History of One Life to Live by Jeff Giles.

Published in 2013.

Interesting read. Lots of background material in there.

Wish there was a similar oral history of all the other shows.

Yes Liz, that's the book.

It's not perfect but it is very good - revelatory without being gossipy or negative for negativity's sake.

Any show helmed by Paul Rauch could fill volumes for backstage drama. No doubt Rauch was Kim Zimmer's favorite EP. The combination of a misogynistic EP and egomaniac star, who would go on vacation together, would be a great soap in itself. Rauch would never have fucked Zimmer, by his standards she was too fat, but in the 70s he was involved with Fran Brill, who was on How To Survive A Marriage, and she was kind of plain. He was working to kill the show Fran was on, to get Another World to run 60 minutes. Rauch's soap start began with ATWT in the very early 60's, so he crossed paths with Fulton, Prinz, John Conboy, etc. That's the book I want to read.

....

Both Kim and Grant were among those that loved Rauch. Some actors love when an EP is a very strong force. They don't have to worry about the other stuff and can just do what they're told to do.

Other EP's were likely less of an iron first. I know toward the end, especially in those Conboy years before the new EP and new production model, things were so chaotic that taping often ran until 2 in the morning, starting again at 6 am.

Rauch’s shows usually have room for only 1 or 2 “unfuckable” older women. Kim Zimmer took that role on GL.

Slezak loved Rauch too.

R232 no doubt Slee loved that creep, she was on lookout in the garage for the Tercel.

I know several journalists and writers have sworn up, down and sideways that shows don't have to pay writers for the use of characters they created.

But I don't think that's correct.....it has to be that they, in fact, do have to pay a licensing fee of some sort.

R234, I've heard writers get paid for characters they create; that may be why poor Jordi Vilasuso's Rey was killed off on Y&R -- no more $ for Mal Young.

Rauch had tons of expereince in soaps but let's face it -- if he didn't have a strong head writer with him, his shows weren't that great.

He had Harding Lemay at AW, of course. But at GL? Outside of Watros's tour-de-force of Annie on the stand what did he really have? Cassie was eating the show. Dinah was off the rails as the Shrew of Springfield.

Rauch had Pam Long at Santa Barbara. I know it wasn't classic SB that everyone loved but I enjoyed their version of the show.

At Y&R, Rauch had Maria Bell and while on paper a lot of her ideas were good, the execution fell short.

[quote] Rauch had Pam Long at Santa Barbara. I know it wasn't classic SB that everyone loved but I enjoyed their version of the show.

It's a shame they weren't given another year or so. I think unfortunately too many fans left when Marcy Walker did, that skanky no talent mopheaded bitch.

I did not like the last year. The tone completely shifted. The Dobson’s humor tended to be more subtle and sophisticated, and Pam Long wrote SB like it was Designing Women.

Pam did a decent job in her time at Santa Barbara. I agree, her tone was very different from the Dobsons. Definitely lost a lot of its humor and came off as more serious.

My main issue was I wish she'd left Kim Zimmer out of things. Surely there was someone else Pam could have cast as Jodie Walker.

Kim Zimmer was ok in my opinion, as were the rest of the Walkers, including Sydney Penny and Eric Close

Krista Tesreau was awful, however. Why didn’t she go back to GL?

The other A-list actors who were brought in during the Rauch area were awful for the most part, except for Zimmer and Jack Wagner.

All I remember is seeing a scene with Zimmer and A Martinez where it was like, oooof, Pam must have rewatched the fountain scene before she wrote this one.

A Martinez had chemistry with everyone he was paired with.

A's one of the nicest guys in show biz.

I agree -- Tesreau is Mindy; she never should have left -- if she didn't find that one perfect sitcom role (prime time Mindy) then it wasn't going to happen. Then again, if she'd never left we never would have gotten Kimberly Simms who took the role to another level. I loved them both in the part for different reasons.

Anyone who loved Dobson SB was never going to love Pam's SB; two different realities.

An NBC exec said if Pam and Paul had been in place a year earlier, the numbers would have gone up and the show would have been saved.

Why didn't GL bring Krista back as Mindy in summer 1996, as soon as Krista's contract with OLTL was up.?

R244, was Megan gone at that point? She knew the history of the show; whoever came in next didn't.

We might never have gotten Phillip and Harley.

GL should have brought Beth AND Mindy back in 1996 after they got Grant.

And they should have BEGGED Pam Long to come back.

Pam was doing something on primetime or cable by then.

Also, after the fuckery P&G pulled on her twice before, I think she'd have sooner worked at a Hooters than return to GL in any capacity.

r246

what fuckery?

R247 They didn't trust her much with long term projections the first time around, and kept changing her outlines, even after GL hit #1 with her stories. She clashed with her then co-head writer and, after a maternity leave, was foisted onto the dying embers of SFT to run out her contract.

As far as the second time, at the end of her second run......twice they approved long term stories of Pam's, and then a few weeks later told her they needed to be changed or cancelled. I heard this from someone who would know - I don't know what the stories were.

Strike three was the one most of us heard at least a murmur about in the press - Pam introduced a very sexy character named Matt Weiss, and was going to bring on his family, a Jewish family. Matt was going to be paired with Harley. Someone somewhere in PGP had an issue with the Jewish family part. They abruptly pulled the plug on that one after a 13 week cycle and Pam left soon after.

I seem to remember her saying in an interview somewhere something to the effect of "if you don't like my peaches, don't shake my tree."

[quote] They didn't trust her much with long term projections the first time around, and kept changing her outlines, even after GL hit #1 with her stories.

PS:

I mean, I can sort of maybe understand them being a little nervous during her first stint, since she was, in fact, an actress who had been given the reins of TEXAS in its death throes and didn't have much else to show for it then.

P&G alienated most of their writers at some point or another. I think Marland was the only one who either avoided the worst of their friendly fire or just knew how to play the game with them.

I remember when a different actor played Ed and Maureen. Grew up on this show, my grandma and mom watched it.

For the first 18 months or so of her first tenure, June 1983 to Dec. 1984, GL seemed to be pure Pam.

Starting in Jan. 1985 with Kyle and Reva parachuting into the Mennonite farm (a rip-off of the Harrison Ford -Kelly McGillis movie Witness which was in theaters at the time), things seemed much less Pam. Soon after we had the Samson Girl contest, the record company storyline and of course, the Infinity storyline, all of which did not seem like Pam at all and were likely the ideas of her co-HW Jeff Ryder.

She went on maternity leave in early 1986 and when she returned, rather then returning her to GL where she could gotten things back on course, they put her on Search for Tomorrow.

Something about Reva just made someone at GL think "Amish."

They did that story twice - once with Kyle, and then again 10 years later with amnesia Reva being found by Alan.

Well Reva had the figure of someone who ate a lot of apple dumplings and other Pennsylvania Dutch cuisine

LOL R253

I'm surprised that wasn't covered during the Peapack years. Where there was a scene with a long discussion between Josh and Reva about a jar of mayonnaise.

"Episode description: Reva discovers scrapple."

An early Pam interview.....I think maybe about halfway through her first tenure?

Interesting article r255. Thanks for posting it.

Interview took place in Dec. 1983, so about 7 months into Pam's first tenure. She said she had a big love story coming up for Mike Bauer, a love triangle. Well, we know that didn't happen and Don Stewart departed the show in Sept. 1984. Wonder if the Mike love triangle didn't happen because Stewart protested it (he's long been rumored to have been opposed to age-appropriate romances for Mike, always wanted the younger gal) and quit or if it was P&G/CBS what vetoed it.

Similarly, she says that she loves Floyd, but we know Floyd barely got used under her reign. Again, wonder if that's because Pam didn't write for him or P&G/CBS vetoed proposed plots.

Lisa Brown's pregnancy put a kibosh on Nola and Quint, and unfortunately Floyd, Katie etc. It was clear Long had one agenda - re creating Texas where she could on GL. Obviously P&G let her get away with it. I just know the show got LOUD. Billy, Reva, Mindy, HB were not like the original Lewises, Trish and Josh, The audience loved them, though, and my more sedate GL with classy actors faded away.

R256 We know from other interviews that Mike Bauer was to be paired with Alexandra Spaulding, but I think she barely met him. Don Stewart did not approve.

Stewart was foolish then.

I agree GL got loud and Pam didn't really write Vanessa properly when she first started; I thought she wrote V much more successfully upon her return in 1987.

The Dobson and Marland era, which I loved, went away but we got Reva, Alexandra, India, Phillip taking Alan away from Spaulding, Sonni/Solita, the return of Roger and Holly...I loved that era just as much in a different way.

I missed Marland's GL but we got his ATWT in the mid-80s. GL and ATWT were particular favorites.

[quote]We know from other interviews that Mike Bauer was to be paired with Alexandra Spaulding, but I think she barely met him. Don Stewart did not approve.

Mike and Alexandra did have at least one "date." He took her up in his 2-seater plane.

At the time, it was clear they were chem testing the two together. I thought they had decent chemistry. But La Bev never was known for having off the charts chemistry with her romantic partners. With relatives like her sons or father, she had great chemistry, but not with her romantic partners.

I suspect the triangle they ultimately wanted to create was with Mike, Alexandra and Lillian.

Alex would have eaten Lillian for breakfast; they were better off friends, united in their love for their children.

Alex had that great dinner party -- Warren, Mike, Lillian, Nola and Quinton, Henry, Ross...Jane; I want to say Clarence Bailey was there but can't swear to it.

Oooh, I'd love to see that R261!

well, I walked into that one didn't I, R262?

Sad to think that of the actors mentioned in R261 - only Tina Sloan is still with us.

[quote]Alex had that great dinner party -- Warren, Mike, Lillian, Nola and Quinton, Henry, Ross...Jane; I want to say Clarence Bailey was there but can't swear to it.

I must have missed that episode. I'm having a hard time imagining Alex and Nola interacting. It certainly didn't happen often.

But I'm also having a hard time picturing Nola and Reva interacting. That didn't happen often either. If ever.

Trish Lewis was also at Alex's party, as Ross's date.

R265 I remember it a few times on Nola's second go round. But nothing major.

I can't believe someone slapped HB Lewis!

ElderQueens -- Here's a thread to talk about their soap viewing habits.

The OP of the thread doesn't seem to be interested in specific plotlines or the nuances of one actor over another.

The thread is asking about "viewing habits back in the heyday of soap operas," whether people watched all the soaps on one network, or switched channels; whether people were loyal to one or two particular shows.

NuThread?