Things kids are not being taught today

Respecting their elders.

It’s scary. They’re getting more stupid and lazy by the minute.

They also aren’t being taught spelling and grammar because they just rely on autocorrect and grammar software to do it all for them.

They can't make change.

Many of them aren't learning to drive.

R3 - Change comes from within.

Safer sex practices.

Why waste time on things that are obsolete?

[quote] They also aren’t being taught spelling and grammar because they just rely on autocorrect and grammar software to do it all for them.

Wrong. They are not being taught spelling and grammar because their parents buy them "learning difference" diagnoses that say they don't have to do such things.

R1 respect is earned.

How to develop an engaging personality.

My former boss's kids are in their mid-20s now and they never learned cursive. They went to public school, but in Montgomery County, Maryland, which is reputed to have a superior school system.

They both sign their names in block letters. Not even joking.

[QUOTE] respect is earned.

Yes. And kids would do well to learn how to earn it.

Oh wow, OP, we were just talking about this earlier. There are high school teachers in the NYC public school system who can’t read cursive writing. I shit you not. And by the way, cursive is considered “elitist” because it’s only taught in some private/parochial schools.

Manual clocks are not obsolete at all. I know someone who was in vet school and some of the new students had to learn to use a non-digital watch.

I see no reason to be able to wright in cursive...I'm 68 and haven't done it since high school. Likewise, who cares about Roman numerals? Even Einstein didn't bother trying to memorize things when he knew he could easily look them up. I do think kids are dumber than my generation, but a lot of things should just be let go.

Respect is earned but elegance is learned, my friends. Elegance is learned.

There are many schools that do not teach cursive. With watches and clocks largely going digital, if kids are being taught it, they are forgetting it. I don’t know a school that teaches Roman Numerals.

More kids are learning to write cursive in the past few years. The ones who can't admire the skills of those who can.

[quote] I see no reason to be able to wright in cursive...I do think kids are dumber than my generation

Oh, DEAR GOD!

Financial literacy, which was never particularly high among teenagers to begin with, even in districts that offered personal finance courses. The big danger used to be plunging yourself into credit card debt as a clueless undergrad. Now it is speculative investing or being persuaded by social media that there's no way you'll ever get ahead, so why even try? And that's without getting into the fraught topic of student loans.

We were required to use cursive at my private junior high. If I tried to write a letter in it now, the result would not be pretty. There is really no need to learn Roman numerals. I see non-digital clocks around often, but I guess the kids use their digital watches or phones.

Math, science.

Checked my son’s math homework, all answers were wrong. I thought maybe he added where he should’ve subtracted and vice versa. Nope. Clearly just wrote random numbers as answers. I said, “Come on, we have do homework correctly. It’s practice for tests”

He blew a gasket and yelled they don’t even look at it. I said that’s not true (catholic school grad here and yes we had lay teachers). He said they just put a check on the homework column showing the student handed in paper. At parent teacher conference the teacher said yes, of course it’s true. Teachers have a lot to do. They can’t correct all that homework. It’s really for kids and parents to do at home.

Next time I asked son, “Let’s do your homework,” he said “I did it in school.” He never did homework again at home, saying he did it on the bus.

He’s now lazy, gets burnt up when he gets an assignment in college, has his father write his papers for him (badly). Skips class when he feels like it. Does zoom when he feels like it rather than go to the school. Has made no friends at school. Goes outside 6 times a day and gets high.

Here’s another thing - when my son did poorly on a test my husband would call the teacher and ask if my son could take test again. He was a little nervous during originsl test. Fine, says teacher. Son takes test again. Didn’t do much better. Husband calls teacher says, “I’d like him to get over his test anxiety so can he take it again?”

Yup. Took the same test 3 times. Never studied. Just memorized the wrong answers and eliminated them.

Lazy

Latin

They are to busy doing active shooter drills.

And, apparently, too busy to learn the difference between to, too and two.

I write in a hybrid but I write by hand so rarely that I actually don't have good coordination and lose control of letters a lot. It's scary to me.

Cursive is one school subject that is practically unnecessary. It's an exception to most subjects other than music and other arts because it is an aesthetic alternative to a system (print writing) that functions perfectly well. The only practical disadvantage that comes from not learning it is that it can't be read; however, I'm sure there are plenty of apps that will translate cursive writing into print for younger people if they need to look at any kind of archival writing.

It's outmoded.

I prefer it aesthetically and I think all arts, including writing in script, are always worth the investment, but I can't come up with any practical reason that it should be taught mandatorally like science, composition, critical thinking, etc.

Ok the other hand, I have never believed memorizing the dates and locations of battles, generals who led them and who won and lost needs to be taught to everyone, either. That type of history is a total waste of time, IMO, and teaching it is the only reason the south still romanticizes its stupid history.

Oh, I'd say that the South it so attached to its stupid history has more to do with the underlying reason for the Civil War than battles lost, dead generals and the locations of their failures.

It all started with an untested theory that now kids can look up whatever they want on Google, they didn't need to be taught anything factual. Subsequent studies have shown that until you have a certain reservoir of information in your head, you are unable to do the kind of analytical work that educationalists thought these kids were going to do instead of learning facts. It isn't that the information has to be the data you're analysing, it's that you have to have done a certain amount of learning and remembering before you can start on higher order work.

When you learn history in the way necessary to become a historian, you have to memorise all the dates of the key events in your field, and you have to know the relationships between the people involved in the period; also what the historians of the time said v the theories later ones advanced. Having done that, you can do some analysis and start to work out what YOU think really happened. But if you don't know the dates really well you'll inevitably get it wrong because you will put events the wrong way round. X didn't necessarily cause Y because Y came after it, but if Y came first X DEFINITELY didn't influence it.

Having realised that, you can transfer that kind of insight to a mathematical problem, or to what happens in a novel.

But if you have no stock of basic learning you can't make any parallels within fields, let alone across them. At least, that's what the studies have shown.

Navigating by the stars is no longer taught and we are all doomed.

US has a huge problem on its hands. The kids are not all right. They know very little. They retain almost nothing. They have very short attention spans due to phone addiction. And parents are doing a worse job than ever of teaching them the basics at home. But how does that get fixed in this environment?

BTW, I personally love cursive and wouldn't mind seeing a revival, but there are so many more important things they don't know right now.

Well, I’m in my early thirties, and though I kept up ok and got fairly decent grades in a high-achieving selective school then got a degree, I’m still not doing well in life now (and my handwriting is still shocking, always has been since childhood in spite of instruction).

Maybe I’d be doing better now, if I’d had better pastoral care, less bullying (from teachers and students), and a little encouragement and creative freedom in school and in extra-curriculars, rather than sitting in Latin lessons avoiding everything else going wrong in my life, or sitting in a car with an instructor trying not to have more panic attacks.

Or Hell, maybe not. Maybe it would have made no difference. Maybe some people just don’t or can’t make it, no matter what.

How to live without prescription drugs.

I am 55 and had to write in cursive from about third through seventh grade and then I could go back to printing. My penmanship is cursive has never been elegant but big and clunky. My printing is straight and neat and faster for me.

My 85 year old parents both went to Catholic schools which are generally known for instilling pristine penmanship. My mother’s is still lovely but honestly I don’t think I have ever seen anything written in script by my Dad other than his signature. His printing is masterful though. All caps with the initial caps larger thank the other letters. Perfectly clear and legible.

We weren’t taught how to write with quill pens and those archaic letters (the s or f that sounded like a p or some shit). I think teachers are correct to focus on the content and not the physical style of writing.

Clear Thinking. A required course, when I was in school. Thus the proliferation of social media and a whole lotta dumb/stupid.

R23, what was your responsibility it the raising of your child, other than criticism? It sounds like you just let your husband do whatever he wanted while you obviously knew better.

R35 ‘Clear Thinking’, you say?

[quote] Navigating by the stars

And orienteering, map reading. What is going to happen when they're lost/in the middle of nowhere and their phone/GPS dies???

No, R32, I think you're right that if you'd had better pastoral care, or a strong role model, you'd have got enough direction to get somewhere. Once you feel you've got somewhere, you have sufficient confidence to change direction if necessary to find your true niche.

In your early 30s you still have time. Find a life coach who isn't an idiot, or ask someone you admire to mentor you as you identify, plan and implement a direction you think might suit you. If you're still having anxiety, get it treated.

Give up on the handwriting and learn to touch-type fluently. Plenty of online programs to teach you, and all it takes is three or four weeks of daily practice.

Do not sit around thinking your life is wasted because your schooldays were a waste of time. You have more decades ahead of you than behind you, so get in shape for them now.

Front to back.

Or, rather, washing one's ass at all, ever.

The truth is, all of society went downhill when we stopped teaching children the principles of effective sheep herding.

My great-great grandchildren don't even know how to pick up the receiver and ask Mabel for Pennnsylvania 6-5000!

It certainly did when we stopped teaching TEACHERS the principles of effective sheep herding.

Golden Girls trivia.

R23, your son is teaching himself how to adapt to his environment, which is what all critters need to know. If he succeeds, he'll survive and maybe even be able to cope as well as a raccoon, or at least a possum.

I'm an elementary teacher who has been in the classroom for 40 years. We are an easy target: "Why don't they teach...?" Here are some of the answers:

1. Cursive was removed from most state curricula during the No Child Left Behind era. High-stakes standardized testing took over schools, and in many cases teachers were ordered to stop teaching history and science (along with art and music) because they weren't on the state tests. In California, cursive only appeared in the standards for fourth grade writing, in the form of a requirement that they use cursive for a state writing test. No one was tasked with teaching it -just that students were supposed to use it on the test. Of course, now all the tests are online so cursive is moot.

2. Today's students do not memorize facts. Every single year of my teaching career fewer students master the multiplication tables. It's not because we stopped teaching them. I suspect students' brains are formatted differently these days. Factual information only goes into short-term memory because facts are always available online through ubiquitous devices. The same with spelling, grammar, parts of speech, etc. We still teach them, but students never master them.

3. It is true that some skills are obsolete. We no longer use physical dictionaries, encyclopedias, or library card catalogs, so we don't spend our class time teaching students about those things. Some will argue that cursive falls into that arena, too. I disagree, but I'm an old fart so what I say doesn't carry much weight.

4. There are young teachers who grew up during the depths of No Child Left Behind -and they have terrible skill deficits in all subject areas (science in particular). They aren't personally to blame -they are victims of politics. That's really where we need to look for blame. Education has become so much of a political football that teachers (already low on society's totem pole) live in fear of saying or doing the wrong thing. Our best and brightest don't head to careers in education. Why should they? Other careers pay better, are more respected, less stressful, and less likely to lead to being shot by a crazy person.

OP, it's not "things kids are not being taught" -it's "things kids are not learning" that is the real trouble.

Thanks for your input

Mandatory home economics. We all learned from 7th grade, and up how to cook, sew, manage budgets, and household maintenance. They phased it out by the time I hit my junior year of high school in 96.

[quote] Do not sit around thinking your life is wasted because your schooldays were a waste of time.

Mark Twain dropped out of school after 5th grade and concentrated on educating himself. He had an exceptional teacher, but it's something everyone should practice as much as possible.

[quote] We no longer use physical dictionaries, encyclopedias, or library card catalogs.

A wot?

I have worked in the higher ed sector since 2008, and I marvel at the 'trends,' which to me feel like the country is using schools and colleges as a broadscale laboratory to experiment on human beings.

In 2008, people were blaming No Child Left Behind for causing damage to a generation of students and everyone was all about STEM STEM STEM.

Shortly thereafter, lots of people blamed the Gates Foundation for recklessly using their money to change teaching and learning, investing in schools to implement their own teaching and learning priorities, which caused divestment from states in schools. The critics said the foundation leaders who led this effort didn't know what they were doing. They just believed they could fix what they believed was broken. So they poured money into schools and when everything got worse on their watch, they stopped funding the schools and public schools then were left with major deficits because states had reduced their funding, and with confused leadership in the aftermath of NCLB and Gates's influence.

Then, employers of recent college graduates started freaking out because they were hiring human robots who were not well socialized and couldn't do basic things like write or provide reasonable customer service. They demanded that colleges teach "soft skills," not just STEM.

Eventually, STEM became STEAM, adding an A in for arts, which then effectively is just old-fashioned arts and sciences.

Except that, while schools and employers have learned that liberal and fine arts are not entirely frivolous and a waste of time, I believe the concept of science is perverted now. Science should be about the discovery process, the scientific process of developing hypotheses, testing them, repeating testing, and so on. But science today is seen not as a process, but as the development of technology—coding and robotic mechanics. I worry about that.

To be respectful and compassionate towards their elders. Seriously. On Twitter, they pull no punches even for sick elders. They feel free to be as nasty and accusatory as possible.

Unless you're old (like dead old) or went to some fancy Sudbury or Montessori school, you didn't learn logic, rhetoric, economics, etc. You were taught by "the Prussian method" and it's as grim as it sounds. It was to train kids to be obedient factory workers and soldiers. To cheer for the football team and be highly nationalistic. It gave us the Nazis. Literally. On the timeline of the Prussian system being introduced to the rise of the 3rd Reich, we're about 40 years from full on Nazis, but I fear the internet has accelerated that.

An entire course needs to be taught for people of all ages to learn when to use loose versus lose.

[quote]I see no reason to be able to wright in cursive.

Do you see any reason to be able to spell correctly?

Unfortunately this all too true.

[quote] To be respectful and compassionate towards their elders. Seriously. On Twitter, they pull no punches even for sick elders. They feel free to be as nasty and accusatory as possible.

Twitter does not reflect real life.

Geography. My nibling couldn't name the 50 states at gunpoint and has very little awareness of where other countries are located.

Pmsl...roman numerals. When was the last time any of you elder gays used roman numerals? Outside the US, roman numerals used to appear on the production date of films and tv shows, but probably not in the last couple of years.

I taught my ninth graders Roman numerals this year.

Cursive was taught on educational TV in the '70s and '80s. In the early '70s, we learned from a show starring a teacher named Miss Geiger, whose penmanship blew this bitch's out of the water.

Verb tenses. I'm sick of hearing "I had went ..."

Geography! Now? It is folded into History. I remember we had to know and label the blank US and world maps and know all the state and country capitals back in the 80s. Not anymore! Even in accelerated classes. I am making my daughter learn the above at home.

Also, gym used to be daily. Now? 1 or 2 marking periods out of 4. No wonder more kids are fat.

And same for cursive. I had to teach my daughter how to sign her name.

Once someone has mastered counting it is pretty easy to memorize 7 Roman numerals and convert it in your head or on your phone.

R62, believe me, those are taught. It's when they get out of school that they start on those things. If you listen to sports radio, 99% of the hosts use " I should have went.," even those who have a degree in journalism. And they are all the millennial, Gen-Z hosts. All of them.

1. I should have went

2. Between he and I

3 Join John and myself at the fundraiser.

The Golden Girls

I homeschool my only kid. I've said it before here and was told I'd be turning him into a weirdo. I never thought I would homeschool him-- I used to laugh and roll my eyes at people who did that. I was always told we were in a great school district. Sheee-yut! Maybe by Texas standards. I took my son out of public school when Covid hit and haven't looked back. Latin, Greek mythology, Physics (which is much easier for a very young kid to learn than an older one), reads all the time, etc. He's way ahead on math. He's half Indian, so that's to be expected.

Every year the Parks and Rec centers around me offer more weekly or bi-weekly activities for homeschoolers -- PE classes, classes at the nature preserve, science classes taught by the university extension program, swim. He does most of those, plus regular sports for the general population. My son rides his bike to the park almost every day to play for a few hours with his friends who go to the neighborhood elementary. He's a happy, funny boy and people enjoy talking to him.

I know this isn't possible for everyone, but I am seeing more homeschoolers, even in my own neighborhood, as time goes on. I think people saw the material their kids were learning when everything went online due to lockdown and were not impressed. Since then, a lot of white collar people started working from home as well -- so, if I can't or won't pay $12K for my kid to go to private school (which may not be much better, depending on where you are), why not just homeschool since one or both parents are there all day anyway? Why send your one or two kids to a school where they aren't learning anything and where they might be blown away by a shooter if you don't HAVE to? It's not worth it.

I know this isn't something everyone can do, and isn't a solution to this problem, but I also know some DLers are interested in changes like this taking place. I think you will see the number of homeschoolers increasing every year, as more people work from home.

[quote]R53: we're about 40 years from full on Nazis...

No, babe. We've already arrived.

[quote]Also, gym used to be daily. Now? 1 or 2 marking periods out of 4.

Or not at all until middle school.

MY cousin Graduated from Berkley. He couldn't use a carpentry square. He had no idea of the concept of square.

[quote] Physics (which is much easier for a very young kid to learn than an older one), reads all the time, etc. He's way ahead on math. He's half Indian, so that's to be expected.

R67, you’re full of shit. Please die in a grease fire you lying frau cunt.

You're out of touch, R71. This is not unusual at all for a kid whose interests are nurtured with books, classes, etc.

He grew up hearing about science every day. Why is it inconceivable that he would value and take interest in those things?

Get off my lawn!

The fact that a child is precocious has no bearing whatsoever on a ridiculous statement like physics is easier for very young children than older ones, or statements like Indian children are better at math.

You sound like a classic example of the Dunning-Kruger effect and your child will pay the price. I stand by my precious statement.

R60...why? What purpose do roman numerals serve? Genuinely curious. Sounds like the type of activity used to fill a morning's teaching.

R59, The Super Bowl, the largest television event of every year in America and which is viewed around the globe uses Roman numerals every year in all of its major branding. They are still in use.

R23 not sure the problem there was with the educational system

R74, I didn't say he's better at math because he's Indian. I said it is 'expected for him to be ahead in math'--those expectations come mostly from his Indian side of the family. Not because he's smarter or better. It is expected that he put time in studying it every day, which puts him ahead.

And again, the expectations for his peers in school, from the school, are low. So it doesn't take an Einstein to be ahead of the grade level.

you did, r78.

Kids aren't taught that Right Now isn't everything. A person gains breadth and resilience from learning things that might not be necessary to know at the present time or every day, and in learning those "unnecessary" things learns to appreciate the depth and nuances of life outside of immediate personal needs, which in turn makes a person apt to be less self-absorbed and so more able to relate to others.

It's not just cursive that kids aren't learning. I was at the counter in a UPS store, sending a package. The college-age clerk was entering the package data online into the UPS system, and asked my address. I said, pointing to my return label sticker on the package, "There it is." The font used on that sticker happened to be a standard italic font, one with serifs. She looked and looked and looked at it as if it were in cuneiform or hieroglyphics. She was totally unable to figure out what most of the lower-case letters were. Finally her older supervisor came over to help (and had no problem).

The less they learn, the less they want to learn.

FFS R71. Calm the fuck down. I'm not one you're talking to but typical DL knee jerk reaction makes you look trollish.

No, I didn't say he's better at math because he's Indian. Apparently I implied that, and that's not what I meant.

He has a little more 'pressure' on him to be ahead in math, to take math seriously, because he has Indian relatives who work in math and sciences, and understanding these subjects is an implicit value in the family.

Why would they need to do things technology has rendered obsolete? Just because YOU once learned how to do it? Should their education be all about emulating YOU?

My great-grandfather know how many quarts were in a hogshead and also in a demijohn, because he needed to know that stuff on the farm he grew up on in South Dakota before the turn of the century. I did not need to know that stuff just because he did.

For R79^

Critical thinking

Fuck your too R81. That poster is a prime example of what’s wrong with this country today. Can the educational system be improved? Yes, of course, but dumb parents who think they are much smarter than they actually are belittling hard working educators is a bridge too far. Not to mention doing a disservice to their children at the same time.

On top of all that, I think that poster is lying. I know no parent of a mixed race child who stereotypes their child, even using positive ones.

In total that poster sounds like exactly the dumb type of frau we all hate here who can’t make herself understood in simple English yet is a perfect educator. I suggest she should stop posting on DataLounge when she ought to be tutoring her little Einstein in Latin and advanced physics.

I of course learned cursive many years ago and can still write in it but my penmanship has always been terrible. I'm glad I learned roman numerals I see them in a number of places. I was surprised by a guy in his 20s who was a college graduate and went to a good Catholic high school but he wasn't sure if F. Scott Fitzgerald was an author or actor.

Who says kids aren't being taught roman numerals?

Not "advanced physics", R86. I'm not the one teaching him Physics, he has a tutor. It is easier for young kids to start learning these concepts because they are abstract ideas. At a young age,_everything_ is abstract because everything is new. As a kid gets older, they get more rigid in their thinking, so it's harder to grasp these concepts than when they're little and more open. He's not mastered it by any means. But the foundation is there so it will come easier, later.

And if you don't know any Indian person who would tell you that there is family pressure to do well in the sciences and math, then you don't know ANY Indian people.

Another thing I never said I was that I am 'smarter than the teachers.' What's being taught/what the kids are retaining isn't going to be enough. I know the teachers don't have control over that.

R17 Roman numerals are ‘taught’ as being an alternative number system - a precursor to the Hindu Arabic numerals we use now. The value lies in demonstrating the importance of the cypher in the HA numbers - as a placeholder which was not used in the Roman system, and therefore resulted in a cumbersome system. Other number systems are also studied to give kids an idea of the different ways humans measured and recorded.

I like a thick, Indian uncut cock.

[quote] I prefer it aesthetically and I think all arts, including writing in script, are always worth the investment, but I can't come up with any practical reason that it should be taught mandatorally

How will they sign their signature on any legal document?

They’re not being taught basic head 101.

[quote] What purpose do roman numerals serve?

When I was a touch younger that was the only way to tell time. That’s all the sundials had!

ie, :

[quote] Next time I asked son, “Let’s do your homework,” he said “I did it in school.” He never did homework again at home, saying he did it on the bus.

You were an idiot for not only allowing that, but also having his father go through those machinations.

“I did it on the bus.”

“Great! Let me see it.”

R65, I gnashed my teeth so hard with your last three sentences I broke a tooth.

Or should I say “myself broke a tooth”?

[quote] They’re not being taught basic head 101.

Don’t just complain. Volunteer to tutor!

[quote] It is easier for young kids to start learning these concepts because they are abstract ideas. At a young age,_everything_ is abstract because everything is new.

R89, you show a singular ignorance of the science of child development and the way learning happens. It actually happens in the exact opposite way in which you describe. Children are concrete thinkers and develop the ability to deal with abstract themes as they get older, really starting around 12 years old.

In many cases, parents have abdicated any teaching to the schools. We hear," Why don't schools teach manners?" or " Why don't schools teach.............." Those of us who are older learned those things from our parents. They taught us proper behavior and life skills. Now, many parents want the schools to teach those things that they should do. Then, they are the first to complain and vote against school levies because the teachers are overpaid and not teaching their kids how to change a tire.

Besides the Super Bowl, I use Roman numerals in writing (organization, basic outline, sectioning off parts of what I write). E.g., "See Section I.A.1.a.i."

Tony, my kids at Northern Vance met or exceeded expectations on the tests until I left.

I followed the standard, vocabulary/etymology (write that damn shit out), model, and create. We were reading in class three day a week at least. I knew gd well they would not read on their own. Watch movies/vids (Sponge Bob is good to teach themes.).

These kids were writing sonnets. Some not so bad with multiple literary elements. I connected to what they heard on the radio or saw in a movie. It was fun and creative, until I got a job in Wake County. WC has a rote curriculum.

Grading...who the fuck has the time to grade 120 plus assignments times three days a week? You? I graded on effort...except for the vocabulary. Every kid is not on the same level.

Teaching is an art. There is no question of that in my opinion.

With how great and educated the older gens think they are, you'd think their leadership would reflect a tremendous city rather than the human garbage we have now

That's nice, R99.

I can also search and find academic articles that contradict your linked article from "Healthline".

And then you can search more to counter my counter-argument. And then I can do the same. We can do it all day long. It's the internet! How productive!

Instead, I go by my real world experience: how I've seen others grow up, what works, what doesn't. So far, so good. Thanks!

Home Economics.

Well, you do need to know how to sign your name. Pencil to paper makes neural connections.

See Greece or Egypt. Or more modern studies.

I didn't understand the first time a kid, about 12 or 13, asked me what time it was, while they were looking at me and I was standing under a clock. Then I realized they couldn't read a clock.

Why do kids need to learn cursive? I did & I have never written that way since I left secondary school (I'm in the UK). My writing is super neat but not joined up. My signature isn’t joined up either. Signature are becoming pretty obsolete these days, my company request digital signatures on contracts both for staff employment & customer contracts now. You don’t need to sign bank cards anymore. No-one uses cheques. I cannot remember the last time I signed anything!

And Roman numerals?! It’s 2022?!

My daughter is 5 and is just learning to read a normal clock in reception (kindergarten maybe?).. but she has a digital clock in her room, a digital watch & as she gets older, presumably will use her phone for the time as most of us do 🤷🏼‍♀️

What about the millions of kids who grow up in Joanna Gaines-inspired homes decorated with enormous wall clocks? Do they think it's some sort of moveable, changeable artwork and not a time piece?

I write in cursive because it's much faster.

Someone REALLY needs to take his meds and let this Indian-kids-and-math thing drop.

In any case, I don't understand people who always sign their name without using the authenticated tag. Native West Virginian seems okay, though.

My teenaged niece and nephew have no concept of critical thinking - if something is online, they just believe it, because "if it's been put up there it must be true". It's rather concerning.

[quote]Why do kids need to learn cursive? I did & I have never written that way since I left secondary school (I'm in the UK). My writing is super neat but not joined up.

That's like saying, "Why do people need to learn to drive? I learned to drive and have never driven a car since then. I take buses and Ubers." Because you chose not to do something doesn't necessarily make it unnecessary or irrelevant.

[quote] What purpose do roman numerals serve? Genuinely curious. Sounds like the type of activity used to fill a morning's teaching.

So you can tell what year the movie was released!

I wonder if some of the things we learned in school were really necessary. Why is knowing the name of a state capitol a gauge of someone's intelligence?

R104, Just as I thought, you have no training in the subject but know better than everyone else, including doctors in the field of childhood learning. It sounds like you fit right in to the Texas mindset.

R111, pardon me for disliking a straight mommy coming here to pontificate on how poorly teachers do their jobs and how much better their mommies and daddies who work remotely all day from home can handle it, in spite of all the evidence to the contrary.

To be respectful and compassionate towards their elders

The elders are generally cunts nowadays and you think they should get special treatment? You should be respectful and compassionate of others because it is the right thing, not because they're old and entitled like yourself. Your a self-important Bitch, and that's from me, and old cunt.

R115, that's not a gauge of intelligence, it's a gauge of knowledge. Just as knowing the answers in the game "Jeopardy" doesn't mean you're smart, merely that you've memorized a lot of facts.

R59 I like to use Roman numerals for the month in dating because it avoids confusion between American and European styles. No risk of ambiguity if you write 3 IV 22.

I didn't think I needed to know historical dates until I started writing. Generally speaking, I had, and still have, just an overarching, general idea of historical sequence. However, analytical writing needs precise dates. A year can make a huge difference.

[quote] Why is knowing the name of a state capitol a gauge of someone's intelligence?

They made you learn names of buildings?

Critical race theory

[quote] very little awareness of where other countries are located.

*indicates map of U.K.* "I want you to put (a sticker) where you're from, on the map..."

*stares at map for a long beat, bemused* "What is that, England?"

R112, I know 2 educated professionals over 80 who seem to think that whatever is published must be true. They only use the internet to read magazines and newspapers that are no longer available in print, so they don't see crap from Facebook or Yahoo -- but the online version of "TIME" or the AARP magazine could contain an article or ad stating that the earth is flat and they'd assume that the editors and/or lawyers must have thoroughly researched the subject before permitting the statement to be issued. They apparently believe that the fear of being sued or imprisoned for fraud is enough to keep authors, publishers, and advertisers honest, so that readers need not ask questions or exercise due diligence. How it's possible to retain such naiveté at their advanced ages is beyond me.

It's funny, my mom up until a few years ago, didn't understand time in digital format. She had to tell time by old fashion clocks. I never quite understood it. We are not fluent in the same language so maybe I missed some nuance of this weird shortcoming.

She uses a smartphone now and checks time with it. I guess she figured it out but I now wonder if her understanding of analog clock and digital time formats are aligned.

So, you sign your name like a Brit. Council House resident, r108?

In tonight's draw with Germany, it was the subbing on of Jack (& Jarrod) that gave England the energy boost and burst of confidence to keep us from a humiliating one-nil defeat. No matter Gareth's feelings about Jack, it's clear now that the national team's prize slut is more or less nailed on as a guaranteed Mundial starter.

^^soz wrong thread

"soz?"

Shows you Germans are not much better.

I'm very old, and attended school one year in a French school where we had to write using steel-nibbed pens, dipped in an inkwell, and then blotting paper to remove the excess ink. I did end up with beautiful handwriting, which I use in my daily journal that no one ever sees.

Or a Brit! It's your fucking language!

Was talking to a teacher friend and she was shocked at how many kids don't know how to tan leather, churn butter or use a printing press.

WAs watching a program with a kid who moved from Seattle to Seoul. He said the biggest shock was when he couldn't bring a calculator to class and was forced to figure out math problems with a pencil and paper, without technology. It made him much more disciplined in his studies.

I used to have a watch, not a Rolex but it was expensive and it had roman numerals instead of numbers. I loved that watch.

writing cursive is helpful in fairly young children for hand-eye coordination. It probably doesn't matter at this point because they will probably never use it.

you need to have some general knowledge to know if what you are reading is fact or at least how to figure out how to find general factual info. Kids don't even know how our government works. I was trying to explain something to someone about our government and the person kept arguing with me even though I was giving him articles directly from the government website. They don't know how to think and just being able to look something up really doesn't teach you how to think and they are not learning critical thinking skills. If this keeps up we won't have many competent people.

Geography is important no matter what some think. A business colleague was searching for a missing shipment that would up in Indianapolis. She then sent out a mass email saying she'd located it in WI.

I did a head-desk thing. She's in late 20s.

Most of these lost arts are neither lost nor deserving of lamentation.

Writing cursive - One aspect of my work was to oversee some history projects using manuscript sources. For years when cursive was still somewhat familiar to many students an experienced staffer would start off a new group with an hour or so of tips and approaches to explain how to read handwriting in its various styles and forms in the 20th, 19th, 18th, 17th Centuries, etc. For a few days of a week or even a couple weeks there were loads of questions and trading notes among their colleagues trying to determine if a letter were an "f" or and "s" or a "t", but they all caught on and did well at it, and most took easily to it because they liked the aspect of decoding a mystery. In more recent years, the new staff had scarcely any familiarity with cursive writing either in seeing it or writing it; they sign their names, when they must, in crude looking block letters. They are not stupid, however, and catch on as easily and quickly as the previous generation and likewise enjoy the small challenges of deciphering terrible writing and deteriorated documents. It's not a skill that must be learned at age 9 or not at all. I really don't see the need for it, nor any loss from the passage of this now mostly obsolete skill.

Analog time -- The ability to read the time on an analog clock...that's not some precious art form. Look at the analog clock and look at a digital representation of the same time. Problem solved. Remember that there's military time and regular time and you've cracked the thing.

Making change (cash register) -- There were people who didn't know how to make change when I was a kid, back when dinosaurs roamed the earth; the same with the blank look of giving a cashier $5 and .05 cents when the charge was $1.05. The stupid and the slow are always amongst us. If anything, technology solved a problem (and if the electricity goes out, you won't be buying many things anyway.) Who uses cash anyway? Where I live there are a few small shops that prefer cash for purchases under 5.00 but transactions are overwhelming by credit or debit card. Banks are increasingly closing many branch offices and removing ATM locations because government regulation meant to limit cash transactions and consumer habits meet in an increasingly cashless society. Who exactly is harmed by a store clerk taking a few extra seconds to count out .87 in change? Use your credit car. "Problem" that really isn't a problem solved.

Roman numerals - I'm 60 and know Roman numerals easily because I'm always reading the dates on building cornerstones and inscriptions in stone. If you don't pay attention to those things (and why should you, especially?), What is lost by not knowing off the top of one's head that MDCCXXXVII is 1737? If you need to figure it out, all you need to know is that they are Roman numerals and you'll have an answer in a split second. It's not knowledge lost if you can solve the problem in a fraction of the time it would take to ask someone.

People know the daily skills one needs and the rest is by chance or a curious background.

Rote learning didn't make your grandparents' generations smarter, it just drummed a few stupid tricks into their heads, and often for skills that are no more useful than R132's butter churning or leather tanning skills. I can add up a long fucking column of numbers on apiece of paper...but why? I can also add it up on my phone, or look up a location used in the film Barry Lyndon or find out the year that Thackeray wrote it without writing anything down, without use of cursive, without knowing how to carve a new tip for my quill pen, without going to a library or consulting my home gentleman's library.... For fuck's sake, things change, as they did in your generation and they will continue to do. There's almost nothing is this list that represents a real loss, just a different way.

Was going to say, 'listening skills and empathy', but on second thought those have never been taught to anyone well at any time in human history.

you waver in your argument.

R116, this is from the article in you link, the link you posted:

"From around the age of 7 until approximately age 11, children still rely heavily on concrete thinking, but their ability to understand why others act the way they do expands. Child psychologists think this stage is the beginning of abstract thinking."

That's from your own article.

At age seven, a kid can start understanding these concepts, and they do so readily. It's a great time to start physics.

You seem hell-bent on putting words in my mouth, without posting any direct quotes of mine that say what you say I said. Your own article rebuts what you said. This is distracting to an otherwise very interesting thread. It's hard to take you seriously, so I won't.

your*^

[quote] It is easier for young kids to start learning these concepts because they are abstract ideas. At a young age,_everything_ is abstract because everything is new. As a kid gets older, they get more rigid in their thinking, so it's harder to grasp these concepts than when they're little and more open.

R139, your earlier statement seems to say that younger children grasp abstract ideas much better than older students which is not true. Physics would be more easily grasped by older students, which is why it’s traditionally taught beginning in high school.

Besides, I thought you believed that my linked article was bunk and you could find something which says the opposite. Perhaps this is another example of you saying the exact opposite of what you later say you meant.

In my thirty-some years of life, I've met more ignorant, rude, childish and limited seniors than juniors.

My stepmother taught at an elementary school (not sure which grade), but she said the little kids weren't even potty trained by their parents these days (and they were of an age where they should have been).

It truly is up to parents to oversee what is being taught in schools. Go to the fricking school board meetings assholes! If you want a stronger emphasis in mathematics and science, or arts and music, or cursive and teaching a basic budget, then vote it in.

The truth is most parents are such ignorant lazy fools these days that they don't have a clue what will help their kids the most....or both parents are working and don't have time to attend meetings, which is another issue itself.

School boards are being taken over by fundies, backed by out of town/out of state big money.

Even more reason to go R145.

Same thing they weren't being taught 3,000 years ago.

R144 I remember going to school board meetings decades ago. What a waste of time. Even though the state had an open-meeting law, they ignored it, discussed and decided everything in private, then held a formal rubber-stamp meeting for the public.

School boards are rife with fraud.

r15 = Dawn Davenport

I've never had to use cursive as an adult. I'm not convinced it's an essential skill.

'With how great and educated the older gens think they are, you'd think their leadership would reflect a tremendous city rather than the human garbage we have now'

I've always felt with all the knowledge, education and supposed enlightenment previous generations had how did their leadership cause such societal catastrophes?

On Reddit, people are commonly posting "old" records with cursive handwriting and saying, "help, I can't read cursive". Oftentimes, the handwriting is completely legible.

ALL learning is "learning to learn", so whether you think you won't use cursive, or algebra, it is irrelevant!

World cultures, history, people, written communication all tie together, and being able to develop reasoned thinking and awareness of the world around you takes a bit more than mastering the fewest number of things you think you might use, especially if you're in high school while deciding what exactly you need to know!

I'm so lucky to have had a fantastic public school education and had parents who were concerned that I not turn out to be some dope!

Grooming.

What if I can’t afford food?

In a word: Facts. AKA: Names, dates, specific events, etc.

Facts are useless, boring, dull, hard to retain without any repetition. AKA: Not "fun."

AKA: Knowledge. They are not being taught knowledge.

Amen, R51.

If you can't sign your name, you belong on the short bus.

I am absolutely appalled at the lack of teenagers that can correctly set up the programming drum of an IBM 029.

R159 - It is really best to use something complicated and incomprehensible as a 'signature', as long as you are able to reproduce it EXACTLY from one document to the next. This reduces the likelihood of -successful- forgery. This makes it a 'mark' more than a signature. (a 'signature' is not necessarily a 'mark', it could just be your name written down.)

Of course, now that you can use digital signatures in PDFs, it doesn't matter that much.

My god this thread is a good reminder that there are some unhinged people on DL. To the woman homeschooling the part-Indian kid, I wish you the best of luck. You are doing a good thing.

Cursive writing and Roman numerals are the least of it. There is a very strong correlation between the professionalization and unionization of the educational system and its weakening results.

[quote] I like to use Roman numerals for the month in dating because it avoids confusion between American and European styles. No risk of ambiguity if you write 3 IV 22.

3 IV 22 could mean March 4, 2022, or 3 April 2022.

I learned "penmanship" at Catholic school. We called it "script," not "cursive." With the broken line in the middle (horizontally). Anyway, around 3rd of 4th grade, I remember having a hard time writing a long word without stopping to rest in the middle of the word. Also, I just preferred the way that some print letters looked vs. the script letters. Fast forward to now. I still have a hybrid of script and print. Very legible, though.

[quote] 3 IV 22 could mean March 4, 2022, or 3 April 2022.

In Europe, 3 IV 22 would be 3 April 2022. In America, it would be "WTF"?????

I grew up writing the date using Roman numerals for the month. I think it changed about 25 years ago, when people started using Arabic numerals only to signify the date.

A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion, butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet, balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying, take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations, analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly.

Specialization is for insects.

YouTuber interviewed random young adults re very basic history and geography questions. Blank responses. Example of the questions follow:

1) What 2 countries border the US.

2) Name 2 countries in South America.

3) Who fought in the Civil War?

4) What is the 2nd amendment?

5) What side was Russia on in the 2nd World War?

How many youngsters could pass a standard dementia/Alzheimer’s test where they ask you to draw a clock face?

Addendum to R168

6) Who's buried in Grant's Tomb?

Those of us who were educated before the advent of Internet crammed knowledge into our heads because there was no other avenue of immediate access. Discussions about various topics was easier because the knowledge was readily available.

Kids raised on Internet don't feel the need to waste memory space with knowledge because they can always Google it. With zip ability to analyse the veracity of the information they've Googled. It's one of the principal reasons random, ad hoc discussions with kids are damn near impossible. They have no stored knowledge, no basis for a semblance of discussion.

r168 includes trick questions.

3) Who fought in the Civil War? --- WHICH Civil War?

5) What side was Russia on in the 2nd World War? --- At different points they were on both sides. Ask Poland.

I don’t suppose they teach parts of speech and diagramming sentences.

Socrates = Harry McAfee

If nothing merits retention apart from the things that interest you, how do you make intelligent decisions? How do you function in a democracy if you don't know how government works? If you don't understand what the Supreme Court does, how can you fear turning the appointment process over to Donald Trump? I don't give a damn if young people learn cursive, can multiply in their head or read Roman numerals. I just see the paralysis that results when young people aren't allowed to work in small groups or have to meet a deadline or accept criticism or don't have step by step instructions on how to complete a task

Let's face a simple truth - having a large underclass of minimally educated people in any society serves an economic function. They can pick fruit, sweep floors, dig ditches, flip burgers, stock shelves, and a thousand other jobs that are necessary slave labor.

I absolutely loved Roman numerals when they were taught to us in the 7th grade in MCMLXXVI.

I do wonder what kids are being with the time freed up from what they're NOT being taught.

In primary school, we were taught an hour of grammar a day. A HOUR. I can't remember any of it.

We also did an hour of copybook. i.e. copying cursive to ensure the letters were flawless. My handwriting is now shit because of typing, but I think it crucial that cursive is taught, along with multiplication tables, roman numerals, how to read clocks, and history timelines. As for what is replacing them:

They're certainly not being taught how to to debate.

They're certainly not being taught emotional maturity.

So what ARE the replacement subjects?

What's the point in bettering yourself when all your idols are instahoes.

[quote] I don’t suppose they teach parts of speech and diagramming sentences.

The better schools do. I taught 9th grade English for 40 yrs and spent about 75% of the time on grammar and writing, as did everyone else in the dept. The other 25% was on literature: short stories, novels, Shakespeare, and poetry.

[quote] how do you make intelligent decisions? How do you function in a democracy if you don't know how government works?

R174 discovers the why Western societies are circling the plug hole.

[quote] 'listening skills and empathy', but on second thought those have never been taught to anyone well at any time in human history.

It was for generations, but now it's supposedly unconstitutional.

Not to disrespect their mothers in public.

Me, too, r176!

The question is what ARE kids being taught today? Seriously.

So some here don't think that learning about the specifics of major wars/battles matters?

THAT indifference or even antipathy is why we see ignorant Yahoos carrying the Confederate and Nazi flags while thinking that's being PATRIOTIC.

It is also why the oligarchy knows it can get away with literal murder, illegal invasions, immense larceny, foreign perfidy towards the environment and indigenous peoples, etc.---the PTB know that their high crimes and misdemeanors will never, unlike mass-murderers, enter any American classroom.

R15 It’s a part of learning how to think and developing essential critical thinking skills.

This is why kids have time to think about whether or not they were born in the wrong body or how to make the communist revolution happen. They have way too much time in their hands. That time should be spend learning, not supporting their feelings.

Cursive handwriting is faster. Historical documents are written in script.

[quote]What purpose do roman numerals serve?

They tell you what year your favorite movie was copyrighted.

[quote]Why would they need to do things technology has rendered obsolete?

Oh, Jesus Christ. It’s called using your brain. What are you going to do if there’s a power failure?

[quote] THAT indifference or even antipathy is why we see ignorant Yahoos carrying the Confederate and Nazi flags while thinking that's being PATRIOTIC.

And why we see so much historical revision or ignorance or agenda masquerading as "specifics of major wars/events".

[quote]It's not just cursive that kids aren't learning. I was at the counter in a UPS store, sending a package. The college-age clerk was entering the package data online into the UPS system, and asked my address. I said, pointing to my return label sticker on the package, "There it is." The font used on that sticker happened to be a standard italic font, one with serifs. She looked and looked and looked at it as if it were in cuneiform or hieroglyphics. She was totally unable to figure out what most of the lower-case letters were. Finally her older supervisor came over to help (and had no problem).

You don’t type an address in italics, retard.

[quote] What are you going to do if there’s a power failure?

R190 Panic! And then call the electric company. And then call mummy and daddy.

[quote]In many cases, parents have abdicated any teaching to the schools. We hear," Why don't schools teach manners?" or " Why don't schools teach.............." Those of us who are older learned those things from our parents. They taught us proper behavior and life skills. Now, many parents want the schools to teach those things that they should do. Then, they are the first to complain and vote against school levies because the teachers are overpaid and not teaching their kids how to change a tire.

To be fair, mothers were at home rearing children years ago. Now both parents work. No one is home and when they are they’re exhausted.

And you wonder why teachers are teaching kids about their being in throuples and then posting about it on TikTok. The adults are as dumb as the children.

Birth control?

R136, Yes, of course the MEANS of learning and communicating have changed from the days of Sumerian clay tablets, AG Bell, Morse code, and door-to-door encyclopedia salesmen.

It is the increasing devaluation of retained KNOWLEDGE that is IMO deplorable.

R160 are you a computer-science autodidact?

Until quite recently, computer technology was very expensive for the masses, and arcane for the layperson to parse. And now, with the advent of user-friendly tech in every home, the need for most casual users to know how to build or maintain computer hardware or program software is eliminated.

That said, I do agree that, from a radical perspective, more people should learn how to cobble together and handle workable computers with guerilla parts, as a way to circumvent the stranglehold of censorship by the tech giants

The DESIRE to acquire knowledge has been lost. As mentioned back in R170 , why bother to read a book, waste the time, fill my head with useless garbage, when I can easily and quickly Google. Now exascerbated by smartphones, so that phone numbers, addresses, etc. no longer clutter the memory.

I wonder what the lack of, well, so much in today's children will lead to when it comes to the direction writing will take in the future. Our stories are what define our cultures throughout time. Then, we had Homer, and Tolstoy, and Dickinson.

Now,

we have Twitter poets who..

write a line...

maybe like this...

or not...

and call it...

art.

Fuck this world.

How to address an envelope. How to write a check.

I've always kind of secretly hoped for a year long smartphone/internet blackout so people can start to know exactly what they don't know. I can't even imagine how lost two entire generations would be. Yes, Millennials and Gen Z, you are lost...you just don't know it. Your entire lives are artificial and you don't even know it.

[quote] How to address an envelope. How to write a check.

I'm a Boomer and I haven't addressed an envelope, let alone hand-written a letter or written a check in 10 years easy.

Walk onto the street, ask where the nearest post office is. You'll be waiting quite a time until you stop someone who actually knows. I sure don't.

How can anyone not know where a post office is? People seem to delight in their ignorance.

Has Bill Maher posted in this thread yet?

R203 people still send & receive packages, kids and young adults especially (buying fashion and trading on DePop/Vinted etc). These still require the sender & receiver to know and use physical addresses.

[quote]I don’t suppose they teach parts of speech and diagramming sentences.

Why?

I have written and edited professionally for decades and couldn't diagram a sentence at gunpoint. It was taught for part of a semester in school but I opted for something else instead. Aware of syntax and the goals of presentation of words and ideas, the point of drawing diagrams escaped me. It's a case where the "why" of a thing is totally uninteresting. It just is, so work with it or even against it, but do the thing well aware of convention.

To understand parts of speech is a much more useful thing, but one can understand without having a month's long class in parts of speech and their every rule.

For.me, a better group of lessons could be formed if a teacher were to look at examples of writing and ask the class why the author chose to express them a certain way, might he have done better, how else might he have said the same thing, how might he have said it with greater force or equivocation, and do any of the rules he exploit or defy for his purpose?

Geography is a parallel where I had classes that were about culture, customs, history, art, music, etc.; and others taught by ancient teachers who had been teaching continents, countries, capitals, and bodies of water for so long that they might have taught Abe Lincoln his coal and shovel trick. Not useless, but a vast waste in not making anything of the subject beyond pin the state or country capital onto the correct donkey's ass, or knowing the longest river in each continent.

[quote] "the Prussian method" and it's as grim as it sounds. It was to train kids to be obedient factory workers and soldiers. To cheer for the football team.

In fairness, my six-year old cousin can correctly identify the flags of many countries, and flawlessly pronounce and locate many foreign names of people & places, because he closely follows international soccer. The interest, while largely passive, has also given him a hankering to travel and visit the world cities with big stadia & teams.

R190, your post brings to mind some words of Anita Lasker-Wallfisch, a survivor of Auschwitz. At some point in her youth, her father told her that you should put as much information as you can into your head because that is something that nobody can ever take away from you. Yes, there are other priorities and we shouldn't be blind to the tasks that technology can do for us but it's so worthwhile to try to collect and connect information ourselves.

If it weren't for drag queen story hour, young kids wouldn't know how to read.

So trans women POC really DID give us everything we have today!

This would be the fault of the Elder gen no?

When I was in college, the prof said that if we are still waiting until "a quarter till" outside class, we are approved to leave....myself and everyone else was like "What in the fuck..." someone asked and he said 15 mins before the hour.

I was NEVER taught this til college.

[QUOTE] Things kids are not being taught today

That white men are not intrinsically evil.

[quote] For.me, a better group of lessons could be formed if a teacher were to look at examples of writing and ask the class why the author chose to express them a certain way, might he have done better, how else might he have said the same thing, how might he have said it with greater force or equivocation, and do any of the rules he exploit or defy for his purpose?

How long has it been since you've been in a classroom? Only the brightest kids are capable of that thinking. The vast majority are not equipped, so you will lose them in the first few minutes. They will be looking at their phones and hoping one day to become an influencer or YouTuber. Your approach might work in college ( higher level) or grad school, but, with kids, you MUST start with the basics of writing. " Equivocation"? Please be real.

[quote] she was shocked at how many kids don't know how to tan leather,

I may not know how to tan leather, but I’ll tan your hide, you whippersnapper!

[quote] That white men are not intrinsically evil.

And that some of them can, indeed, jump.

[quote] when they were taught to us in the 7th grade in MCMLXXVI.

Oh, shit! I think r76 just had a stroke. His last words were gobbledygook.

The problem isn't so much in what is being taught. It's in the demands of parents and the pressures to bow to them. See: the frau up above with the husband who asked the teacher to let the kid retake tests. Bowing to parental demands and teaching for "mastery" are standard policies. Teaching for mastery means kids get infinite retakes and you can't hold them to deadlines. The customer service orientation permeates education at the collegiate AND K-12 levels. It's the biggest difference between the US and other countries, in my opinion.

Another related factor is the "accommodation" of bullshit learning differences such as ADHD, dysgraphia, executive function problems, and so forth. OF COURSE there are some real learning disabilities, but at some point you've got to say enough is enough. In my experience, the kids with the genuine disabilities and talent to overcome them will do so. I don't have kids, but if I did, I'd get them diagnosed with every disorder out there. It gives kids such an edge, it's not even funny.

Reproduction anatomy in sex ed.

Celestial Navigation is no longer a requirement at the US Naval Academy. It is an elective, for those who want it.

What if our ship sinks?! We’ll all be lost forever!

[quote] Another related factor is the "accommodation" of bullshit learning differences such as ADHD, dysgraphia,

Lwsd pluqegh are pqwdbal too!!

Don't forget TIAQ and the classroom language changes they demands!

*Thems demands.

Why don't they teach kids to use inkwells?

R220, that's IF they teach sex ed at all!

Classical Studies.

Most kids under 18 could not even identify a noun or verb, let alone do the old diagrams we used to do of a sentence. If they write at all, it's a conversational stream of consciousness with no grammar/sentences/paragraphs/periods.

I worked at a college a few years back and our RAs eventually made Student Life do training sessions required of anyone living in a residence hall. Because none of them understood how to use building fobs, or use an ATM card or *gasp* checks, and the worst one - none of them could load a washer/dryer, or knew how to use anything in the laundry rooms.

When I was on site one day, a young woman wanted detergent for her laundry and had a cup with her. We had the old vending machines that for 50 cents dispensed a small box of powdered laundry detergent. She asked where to put the cup and why the detergent wasn't coming out and I was confused. It turns out she expected the detergent to dispense into her cup as if it were a drink dispenser at a fast food place. I gave her a few boxes of detergent....she looked at them, began crying like a 3 year old and said "I want my nanny!"

[quote] grammar/sentences/paragraphs/p - eriods.

DL doing its weird separation/dash there, not me.

[quote] Why don't they teach kids to use inkwells?

Or Snackwells?

[quote] It turns out she expected the detergent to dispense into her cup as if it were a drink dispenser at a fast food place.

In her defense, I’ve seen those things do that on Mr. Bean.

I love this.

R191, I'd be interested in a real example or two of that which you intimate.

If you mean the "revision" that, say, Columbus was genocidal, well, he was.

Your turn.

[quote] I absolutely loved Roman numerals when they were taught to us in the 7th grade in MCMLXXVI.

That Enigma album taught me Roman numerals!

You old bitches need to get off the cross about cursive. It's archaic and it's not coming back. Nobody really writes by hand anymore anyway.

I agree with some of the comments upthread.....since children with different abilities or learning challenges have been mainstreamed, they aren't performing much better and it's had a hugely negative impact on the rest of the class.

Going to the same school? Sure. But if they have different abilities, they need to be in different classes.

I can get behind the idea that there might be a few different styles of assessment. I don't always do well with rote learning or spewing facts back, but I can walk you through the process and take it apart/put it back together for you. A college professor realized that after I was the student who excelled in discussions but would never get above a C on a test.

Thing is, most GOP governments want to make public schools as dysfunctional and bad as possible. They'd love to take us back 200 years, where once a child can write its own name, do basic math sums and have basic functions of life, they no longer need school. That way they can dismantle the Dept of Education, make sure poor people & especially poor black/brown people stay uneducated, so companies can pay then $2/hr for backbreaking labor.

Make America Great Again, right?

Ten or fifteen years ago a law was passed in North Carolina mandating that cursive be taught in schools again after a GOP legislator received thank you notes from a class of fourth graders and the handwriting was so terrible. Some students had the lines on the rules paper turned the wrong way.

When I was taught cursive writing we were told that we had to learn it because it enabled us to write faster so we could take notes more quickly in the higher grades.

[quote]R213: That white men are not intrinsically evil.

Practical examples of which are becoming a somewhat complicated search.

That this is an issue to your mind strongly suggests your complicity in the problem.

[QUOTE] That this is an issue to your mind strongly suggests your complicity in the problem.

Said by an uneducated person of color who wants to sound fancy.

PoisonedDragon is hypocritical virtue signaling cunt

R203, You must not have any relatives, never mind friends. Or do you believe they all actually prefer your holiday and birthday emails to 3-D cards? Now, I admit to going the common Amazon Gift Card route for a couple friends, but not my relatives; the latter get real cards and checks.

This fellow Boomer ('49) hopes you do not feel smug about not knowing where a Post Office is.

R240 please fuck yourself with a rusty saw.

[QUOTE] please fuck yourself with a rusty saw.

Now the true ghetto is revealed.

R243, see how it drew out the right-wing socks? They can't help themselves.

It's as funny as watching Russian trolls react to posts criticizing Russia.

Not a right-wing sock, R245.

I just think you sound uneducated, like some ghetto kid who uses fancy words, but doesn't know the true meaning of them.

I don't blame you for your ignorance. Your culture, and our education system failed you. You don't know enough to know any better.

R237, Why is it that knowing and being able to relate factual knowledge is often termed "spewing" (alternately "regurgitating")?

Do not members of our medical, legal, aeronautical, engineering, financial, research, scientific, and technological professions, among others, need to have an excellent store of factual knowledge upon and from which to theorize, hypothesize, extrapolate, solve, and discover?

And isn't the apparently eternal popularity of "Jeopardy!" (and its ilk) ironic?

R240 Behold your garden variety MAGAt in his natural habitat.

Actually, R240, I'm a liberal gay Democrat.

But I know stupid when I see it.

[quote]Not a right-wing sock

Of course you are, R246 - your posting history gives away your agenda. And when you really want to deliver an insult, you insinuate that I'm black, with all the attendant racist stereotypes. You can't help yourself.

R241 is the drive-by sock, likely one of yours (for when attacking with one account just isn't enough). :D

R250 needs to get a job and stop living off their fake mental disability scam.

The rest of us are tired of supporting your lazy ass.

There's no longer a mom,, grandma, or a favorite uncle passing down all the important Midwestern folklore related to Oakdale, Springfield, Bay City, Monticello,. etc. etc. etc. to the kids of today.

PoisonedDragon reveals itself to be a paranoid twat as well as a hypocritical virtue signaling cunt

Guess what fucktard…there are many people on DL who share the same bad opinion about you

Hilarious to think that you need to defend your inflated ego by thinking that there’s a conspiracy against you

KIDS!!!

Why can’t they be like we were, perfect in every way . . .

[quote]Actually, [R240], I'm a liberal gay Democrat.

R249, 'liberal gay Democrats' don't post things like:

[quote]If it weren't for drag queen story hour, young kids wouldn't know how to read.

[quote]That white men are not intrinsically evil.

[quote]Said by an uneducated person of color who wants to sound fancy.

[quote]Now the true ghetto is revealed.

[quote]I just think you sound uneducated, like some ghetto kid who uses fancy words, but doesn't know the true meaning of them.

[quote]I don't blame you for your ignorance. Your culture, and our education system failed you. You don't know enough to know any better.

[quote]R250 needs to get a job and stop living off their fake mental disability scam. The rest of us are tired of supporting your lazy ass.

From another thread, 'Homophobia is alive and well on Facebook':

[quote]It's that fucking drag queen story time bullshit.

[quote]Rainbow flags are the new swastikas.

[quote]R65, Please move to a Muslim country.

Smug rancid breathed twat ^

Also, isn't learning a foreign language dependent to a significant extent on memorization?

[quote]This fellow Boomer ('49) hopes you do not feel smug about not knowing where a Post Office is.

Most people in 2022 have no need for a post office.

That reminds me in the past few years a few Boomers have stopped me on the street asking where the post office was. When I told them I had no idea they got all irate and couldn't believe it "how do you not know where the post office is?" It was pretty funny. Have a nice day, you old fuck.

[quote]How long has it been since you've been in a classroom? Only the brightest kids are capable of that thinking. The vast majority are not equipped, so you will lose them in the first few minutes. They will be looking at their phones and hoping one day to become an influencer or YouTuber. Your approach might work in college ( higher level) or grad school, but, with kids, you MUST start with the basics of writing. " Equivocation"? Please be real.

Fair enough if you say, R214, yet you would have me believe that diagramming sentences and the fine points of prepositions and interjections will hold these same students in rapt attention?

In his fury, this racist keyboard warrior just used another one of his socks to post another screaming fit on ‘𝐒𝐭𝐚𝐫 𝐓𝐫𝐞𝐤: 𝐒𝐭𝐫𝐚𝐧𝐠𝐞 𝐍𝐞𝐰 𝐖𝐨𝐫𝐥𝐝𝐬’- 𝐖𝐢𝐥𝐥 𝐲𝐨𝐮 𝐰𝐚𝐭𝐜𝐡?' (R352 on that thread):

[quote]Get fucked PoisonedDragon. Everybody hates you and you're nuts.

R247 Rote learning is fine as a foundation of knowledge, as you suggest. It's how children learn many basics. And yes, it's important in some of the instances you cite (though most doctors, lawyers etc memorize little - like Einstein said, never memorize, just know where to find the answer).

But most standardized tests only measure rote learning and "spewing". What is missing in much of that is REASONING. Our schools were more successful at teaching reasoning and understanding problem solving before. Now with a laser emphasis from schools on standardized testing - because public schools are often funded based on standardized performance.

My BF works in IT and works with predominately Asian immigrants. They all had A+++++ educational records, but they are at a loss to reason through an issue or try different solutions, because the emphasis in their education is on rote learning.

Respectfully....I don't think I'm saying much that's different from your perspective, but my emphasis in my comments is that many schools are emphasizing the result instead of the process (which is far more valuable for the children to learn). And yes, the wording is a bit derogatory or somewhat or a pejorative, but "spewing" or "parroting" fits, in this case.

R198 - FYI, I was just trying to be funny.

Following a poster from thread to thread to "expose" them is one of the most loserish things I can think of.

sobs

R261 - My neighbor (until he recently retired) was the VP of an American company that had 6,000 employees in multiple locations in China. He was in charge of that. He said they were a disaster, could recite a math book back to front, but couldn't think for themselves under any circumstance.

[quote]Following a poster from thread to thread to attack them is one of the most loserish things I can think of.

I concur, R263. So why are you doing it? ;D

It's a little thing. Many do not realize gonna is not a word.

R265 yes, that tracks with what my BF and others in tech/IT have said.

And no disrespect to any of them, not being racist, etc. It's entirely how their educational system emphasizes learning.

r266 you seem to be the one following people from thread to thread. Not that this is anything new, it's been going on here on DL forever.

r265 they're excellent at rote learning and memorization but that's it. No critical thinking skills, problem solving skills or general creative thinking skills to solve problems.

As much as I hate this term, I'll just use it anyway - they don't "think outside the box.."

I apologize for using such a lame cliche but you know what I meant.

R269, I was already posting replies to both threads, irrespective of any particular user, before the right-wing sock user decided to call me out in both places, using the same ad hominems. The insults don't bother me. But the more you do it, the more you expose yourself.

I was a professor at EPFL in Switzerland, one of the top STEM universities in the world. The slag on Asian thinking skills is ridiculous and racist. They have critical, analytical and creative thinking skills. Well, at least the smart ones who go to top universities. If they didn't have such skills, they would flunk out. Or never be admitted in the first place. I guess this applies to the drones, just like it would to drone average white American students.

r272 we're not talking about fancy schools in Switzerland. We're talking about real-world problems within the business and tech community.

[quote]before the right-wing sock user

I only have one account and just because people disagree with your insane opinions doesn't make them right wing.

R272 - That represents the top of, what, 1% of 1% of 1%? Of course those people are. It's not a racial thing, it's cultural. It's why when you play Lang Lang after a Horowitz recording, LL sounds not so good, to put it mildly. He just simply is not capable of that dimension as he has not been immersed in it like H was. It's the same reason you don't find Americans sounding like H either, for that matter.

[quote]R274: I only have one account and just because people disagree with your insane opinions doesn't make them right wing.

Sure, Jan.

With exactly which of my "insane opinions" do you and the socks take issue? Be specific.

The Swiss are well-known to be insufferable cunts.

See also: Austrians

I love the paranoid "every post is one guy with sock puppets!" people. There are several of these crazies.

[quote]R278: I love the paranoid "every post is one guy with sock puppets!" people. There are several of these crazies.

Of course there's posters capable of observing objective reality, with the sock accounts raving about the same issues ("wokeness," the trans, etc) and using the same phrases ("virtue signaling cunt"). Pretending you're not socks and that you're not right-wing is pointless.

You also gave yourselves away in the 'Picard' thread back in the middle of May, especially with the Brent Spiner trolling.

Alrighty then, just so we are clear its cultural not racist.

[quote] My neighbor (until he recently retired) was the VP of an American company that had 6,000 employees in multiple locations in China. He was in charge of that. He said they were a disaster, could recite a math book back to front, but couldn't think for themselves under any circumstance.

At least they can do math. Americans can't even do that or think for themselves, except deciding which social medium to consult first.

I think r279 is confusing one poster who posts in multiple threads (as everyone here does) and actual sock puppet accounts.

Oh and Brent Spiner SUCKED in Picard. The fans hated it. Totally unnecessary to have him and his stupid subplot wasted everyone's time on that show.

Dear PoisonedDragon is a sad, addled soul. May God find healing for his troubled, disturbed mind.

You certainly can combine rote, critical thinking, and creativity.

Until the BOE tells you what to do, by rote.

R265 that reminds me of something a DLer said about some Japanese disaster or accident, the people stayed until a responder told them to leave even though they were in immediate danger....I think it was a poisonous gas incident on a train? The reverence for people in charge can go too far and it all ties back into the rote learning of modern Asian education and culture.

R285, it probably was the Sewol Ferry Tragedy in South Korea ( 2014) in which a ferry capsized and the over 200 students were told by the captain to stay in their seats or things could get dangerous. The captain and crew abandoned the ship, but the passengers died. Volunteer boats attempted to rescue them, but the Coast Guard repelled them. It took quite a while for the boat to sink, but rescue attempts were prevented. The result was the President of South Korea was impeached and jailed:

The judges found the disgraced former leader guilty of 16 criminal charges, including bribery, coercion and abuse of power, which involved some of the nation’s largest companies. Park received a 24-year prison term that, at age 66, could be a life sentence. She also faces a hefty $16-million fine.

How to dial a rotary phone with a pencil !!

R285, there's an Air Disasters episode about the same thing happening with a senior pilot and a junior co-pilot. The junior didn't want to offend the senior by telling him he was totally fucking up, so the plane crashed and everyone died. I think. That's usually how the show goes.

^I forgot to to say they were Korean pilots.

If I had to dial one of those old-timey phone numbers like Murray Hill - 9654 I would have no idea how to do it. I wouldn't know how to take shorthand or use a mimeograph machine either. Things become obsolete and are replaced by new things, that's the way of the world.

[quote]R267: It's a little thing. Many do not realize gonna is not a word.

Of course it is, and has been since 1806.

These disasters happen in every country unfortunately including thousands of lives lost from accidents and various types of poor judgment and rushing or normal routines being missed. You could add the Titanic and the Surfside collapse to the list; neither would have happened if money and stress weren’t an issue. And the 2015 El Faro disaster, where a U.S. crew was afraid to defy their captain even as he ordered them to steer into a hurricane and they all died.

R286, “Three crew members, Park Ji-young, Jeong Hyun-seon, and Kim Ki-woong, were credited by survivors with staying aboard the ferry to help passengers escape. All three went down with the sinking vessel.[223]” Some of the crew abandoned the ship but three died helping with the rescue. 172 of the passengers were rescued, half by volunteers and half by the Coast Guard. The school principal was rescued but later committed suicide.

....

They don’t know what this means:

“Where’s a pay phone? I have to check my machine.”

Not having been in a classroom in donkey's years, I'll ask the dumb question: do they still use chalk and blackboards?

Markers and dry erase boards r296. No notebooks, all notes are taken on a tablet or laptop.

I'm thinking of my partner who was told by a student that it would be easier for her to focus if he walked around more and underlined the key points on the white board after he made them. This student did not seek legally mandated accommodations. She expected her college professor to do the work for her so she only needed to listen when he went to the white board.. He now announces the key points at the beginning, middle and end of the talk, distributes a notetaking outline they can use, gives them his slide shows and offers only open book tests. He's teaching at a community college, not an elite school but still.

Query whether you think this student's workplace will adapt to her expectations without a legal oblligation to do so.

Why should children learn how to read a “manual“ clock? I put the word manual in quotes because I don’t think that is the correct term for it.

I haven’t seen a manual clock this century.

My grandparents were born in 1899 and 1902 and at their insistence they switched to all digital clocks in the mid 80s when they were in their mid 80s.

Since I’ve started this post I just remembered I did see a manual clock in an old movie within the last few years. I think it was Big Ben.

OP, do you think young people today should be taught how to churn butter?

Well, there's one in every school classroom so you can tell how long the shooter is in the building.

*Analog clock.

I don't think it's been emphasized enough that OP is a fucking idiot and a rotten parent.

I'm sorry, not OP. R23 is who I meant.

And yes, I'm clearly a fucking idiot, too!

Kids need to be taught how to maintain eye contact.

Some of them can literally not speak words. You ask them something and they just stare. For my job, I have to register people and need them to give me their name, email, and other very basic information. The number of under 20s who just stare at me and can't even spell their own name out loud while they wait for mommy to do it for them is insane. And, the fucking mumbling. They cannot speak words. It's astounding.

Why r304?

Maybe no young person wants to look at you. Gazing upon you is upsetting.

Maybe you need to wear your hearing aid r305

R304 No one - not kids, not adults - maintains eye contact anymore. They're all too hot shit worried they might miss something on their smart phones. Reason Bazillion and Ten I don't bother having conversations with people. After 10 seconds, their eyes are already drifting to their phones.

Didn’t security tell people in Tower 2 to stay put, even as 1 was burning?

R307, it's not a matter of hearing them. They literally don't speak and when they have to they cannot speak without looking down and not opening their mouths. I bet your mommy still talks for you, too, though, so you don't understand the problem.

R310 maybe you’re especially upsetting for normal people to interact it

Are you a great big fat person?

So, you're not here to actually discuss anything, R311. Got it.

After 8 years in this cesspool, it still amazes me how quickly seemingly intelligent, rational, sensible adults degenerate into pejorative-spewing children.

Maybe for the same reasons we don’t use an abacus today.

It’s a shame kids don’t learn cursive. I see so many young people who print their signatures, now. However, digital signatures have growing acceptance.

I never understood why people think it’s such a skill to read a clock with hands when digital time is all around us and isn’t going anywhere.

Roman numerals? I only really see those at the end of movies.

I’d rather see kids learn critical thinking skills, or learn things such as the value of money. Better grammar and punctuation, too.

You need to engage in some reflection r312, rather than blaming kids on how you WANT them to behave.

If not engaging with you works for young people, maybe you need to withdraw from society.

[post redacted because independent.co.uk thinks that links to their ridiculous rag are a bad thing. Somebody might want to tell them how the internet works. Or not. We don't really care. They do suck though. Our advice is that you should not click on the link and whatever you do, don't read their truly terrible articles.]

[quote] Didn’t security tell people in Tower 2 to stay put, even as 1 was burning?

R313, it is one troll trying in this thread who is deeply triggered by this subject, for god knows why. Don't take the bait.

"trying" is a typo.

[quote]I see so many young people who print their signatures, now.

[quote]Better grammar and punctuation, too.

Irony.

Old fucks always complain about kids

Especially about the respect that they feel they are entitled to

So it has been since the dawn of humanity

[quote] Why should children learn how to read a “manual“ clock?

If they start to exhibit cognitive problems down the road, it will be one of the doctor's first tests to determine if it could be early dementia... lol

How to grow your own food, like tomatoes or cabbage.

Many actually do if they have room for a raised bed or two.

Here is what too many children enter kindergarten and/or 1st Grade NOT KNOWING:

HYGIENE. They do not have a clue about bathroom hygiene.

THEIR FULL NAME and ADDRESS. As noted above, they are struck mute.

Don't a lot of elementary schools still have a vegetable garden area where they teach a particular grade level about this, or let it be an elective?

wtf did i just post?

R327 Your post wasn't on the thread yet when I started reading it.

CONCERNING the plants and raised bed:

The biology/general science teacher would have to get permission from the principal. They would have to et central office approval.

And then, the teacher would have to pay for it.

How to speak on a phone or behave in a professional setting. I get things are more casual these days, but the behavior I see is insane.

It's very amusing to see the number of Americans who cling onto the belief that the US students are more creative and problem solving than their Asian counterparts. The job of education has been removed from teachers for many years. Instead of creativity, students are fed facts in order to pass a series of government mandated multiple choice tests. Arts programs and creative writing classes are being gutted in favor of the fact-oriented STEM classes. The only creativity these kids experience are through platforms such as Tik Tok. No, Americans, your kids are not being educated on how to think, because you elected politicians who took the entire process away from the teachers and schools and gave it to bureaucrats.

And that’s the only way to test it, R322?🤔

Can’t believe kids aren’t taught how to read an analogue clock.

I’ll throw one in, too: Cooking. Preparing a nice, nutritious meal from scratch.

Yes, one friend mother smothers her kid. The other has her making mac and cheese.

Refreshing.

Pasta, eggs, and grilled cheese, You are good to go.

To anyone suggesting that what students need is to be taught "critical thinking":

What would you use as the teaching material?

That is to ask, how does one "think critically" minus facts? Minus specifics? Minus regard for details and nuance?

Is "critically thinking" about the US Civil War the same as "critically thinking" about the Vietnam Conflict?

Be careful what you wish for. "Critical thinking" can lead to the unmasking of government lies, yea, even unto treason [See: Committee, January 6].

And TPTB truly do not wish such ruminating from the public education of the Great Unwashed.

R330, Many a time I've called a business to be greeted by a simple "Hello." So then I have to ask if it is indeed the business. If yes, I give that receptionist a wee lesson in how to first identify the business when answering. Where's the boss?

R333: I can't speak to other places in the United States, but learning to read an analog clock is still part of the 1st Grade math curriculum in California. From the CA Dept. of Education 1st Grade Math Standards (under Measurement & Data):

[quote] 3. Tell and write time in hours and half-hours using analog and digital clocks.

And then, in 2nd Grade:

[quote]7. Tell and write time from analog and digital clocks to the nearest five minutes, using a.m. and p.m. Know relationships of time (e.g., minutes in an hour, days in a month, weeks in a year).

That they should be seen and not heard.

The purpose of cursive writing is to increase the speed of the writer -- if you don't have to pick up and lower your pen after every letter, you will be faster (with practice, of course). So if you're ever in a situation where you need to take extensive notes by hand, it would be a very useful skill even today.

I'd like to add that writing by hand -- particularly in cursive script, but even in block letters -- has been shown to result in better retention of the contents and overall better cognitive skills than typing (however quickly) on a keyboard.

I taught art classes a few years back and it was EXTREMELY difficult to get any of the kids to actually go to an art gallery. It's one thing to look at an artwork online, but another to see it in real life and be moved by the colors, scale, texture and all that. I did arrange for the class to visit a gallery. Most used it as an opportunity to take a few pics of themselves for about 5 minutes before heading to the cafe.

The discussion seems to be on what digital media has done to young people's brains. Teachers aren't miracle workers.

R337 good, that’s a bit of a relief

Critical thinking. Media literacy. Civics (i.e. the structure and function of governments and society.)

We're raising a generation of credulous know-nothings who are ripe to be conned by every reality show politician waiting in the wings.

[quote] I’ll throw one in, too: Cooking. Preparing a nice, nutritious meal from scratch.

That should be learned at home. The job of the school is not to fill in all of the failures of parenthood.

^^^But the thread isn't specifically about school-teaching. The thread is about "Things kids are not being taught today." One can be taught or not taught in places other than schools, including the home.

The origin stories and cultural differences between The Merv Griffin Show and The Mike Douglas Show.

Home Economics

Shop

PE

How to spot the old gay in the Mercury Meteor

Being taught to cook at home (even if it's just following a recipe on the side of a box) helps kids learn basic units of measurement.

R335 critical thinking is not restricted to history. Critical thinking cab be "scaffolded" based on pedagogy and tasks in many domains.

Here is a definition of critical thinking:

"Critical thinking is the intellectually disciplined process of actively and skillfully conceptualizing, applying, analyzing, synthesizing, and/or evaluating information gathered from, or generated by, observation, experience, reflection, reasoning, or communication, as a guide to belief and action."

I don't think I agree with the last part - as a guide to belief and action. Thats hardly necessary. It is used as a way to build "knowledge" and also to solutions that are not based on "belief".

You can assign STEM nerds to tasks that will require and develop critical thinking about a city's environmental challenges.

It's not the same as "critical theory" and it's not the same as "political economy".

Its really something old fashioned, time tested, and valuable, and was the mainstay of academically oriented high schools and rigorous universities. You HS Earth Science teacher could assign tasks that require and develop critical thinking and your college French history teacher could do the same.

We used to have at least 500 to 1000 colleges that would admit a freshman class with students fully capable of reteaching information through printed material, observation and experimentation, and could expand their thinking skills exponentially through a 4 year college programme. That is why in the old days a smart kid could study academic topics, but then enter any number of professions and do well.

I teach a fair number of French kids in my university and they are still very well trained to thinking carefully and say something intelligent and well expressed. If a French student doesn't think he/she has something intelligent to say, they say nothing. Americans fake it until they make it not, with absolutely no cognitive dissonance. But it wasn't always that way.

type : fully capable of researching information....

Parents don't teach their children manners , patience, or how to deal with defeat. We learn so much more from failure than success.

Spot on, R352.

R352 And unreasonable expectations, based on never being taught that everything comes in its own time. Everyone gets a present for a specific birthday. Everyone gets a prize. Everyone gets an award.

[quote]We learn so much more from failure than success.

As my father used to say: "Experience is what you get when you don't get what you want."

I don't necessarily agree with the idea that failure is a great learning experience but it is certainly something you have to be prepared for and cope with. No one is successful all the time. That resilience comes with age as much as education though.

Who Katharine Hepburn was

You shouldn't publish your underaged sexual adventures on facebook. Your cell phone is not the most important thing to everyone else as well.

Don't address your elders as " Dude."

Whenever my nephews call me "dude", I always say, "that's Uncle Dude to you".

KIds just don't know how to use a cigarette machine any more.

Jasmes Patterson hand-writes all his manuscripts in pencil, in cursive. When he actually writes anything.

Civics.

Hondas?

[quote]We're raising a generation of credulous know-nothings who are ripe to be conned by every reality show politician waiting in the wings.

Trump's votes came primarily from those 45 and over. That means it was almost certainly your parents, meaning all the parents of Boomers and some of the parents of Gen X, who raised generations happy to be conned by a reality show grifter.

CURSIVE. I prefer cursive handwriting over d'nealian myself. Many kids today are not even being taught cursive.

Some schools aren't even teaching Shakespeare anymore. I find this bizarre and offensive. I don't even particuarly love Shakespeare but I absolutely acknowledge the impact he had on culture and literature.

Shakespeare was a chore and a bore-- and I LOVE to read. I read all the time in my youth.

Making Shakespeare compulsory is a great way to make reluctant readers loathe reading, which is something this country can't really afford.

There has been a recent trend to let kids and teens read all stuff they enjoy. But all reading is not equal. You grow more from challenging works than you do Harry Potter.

R368 I thought it was boring too, but as I've grown older I can appreciate the themes and characters of his plays and how they play out in real life. I'm glad now that I had to read them.

Shakespeare isn't being phased out because he creates an antipathy towards reading in students; it's because, in a curriculum with limited capacity, you come to a point where it's either(for example) Toni Morrison or William Shakespeare and, post-George Floyd, Shakespeare loses every time.

I was in catholic school in 9th grade. I got a day pass to visit my friend in public school. They were reading a Bewitched script in English class. We were reading Antigone in my school. Public schools have been underachieving for years.

[quote]We were reading Antigone

Ain’t that there the name of some cleaner?

Easy to combine a unit with Shakespeare and Morrison. She's even written a play, "Desdemona."

Millennial that went to public school. We were able to handle Shakespeare just fine. Hamlet - Freshman year; Tempest - Sophomore; Macbeth and King Lear - Senior. And all of our books and plays were serious material selected for specific educational reasons. Young Adult fiction? Pfft. Try Crime and Punishment, A Brave New World, Medea, etc. Easy reading for the beginning of the year were lighter things like The Odyssey, Ivanhoe, etc. Sometimes we'd be given a choice, but in the sense of pick which F Scott Fitzgerald book you want to read, not OK, kids, you can read your teenage romances.

I have since found out through an English teacher that I kept in contact with that the school has changed dramatically and now is as shitty as all the other public schools. Why? Equity and wokeness. Gotta bring everyone down to the lowest common denominator of trash rather than challenge students to rise up. It's a damn shame.

Shakespeare was eliminated from some curricula because of a movement started by wimmen in the east coast liberal arts colleges to eliminate the works of dead white males from school curricula.

CRT

[quote]A Brave New World, Medea, etc.

Was you able to pick which Madea movie y’all wanted to see? Cause we was.