PICARD s2 Official Thread

They lost me when they recast Icheb for that one horrific storyline.

Wow. Incredible opening.

This season is going to be wild.

About half way through the episode. Love it so far. Like boozy Agnes.

John de Lancie looks great, and so does Jeri Ryan.

I'm just happy we got to see Deltans.

Ilia would be proud.

Aren't the Deltans major sluts?

R6 Only when they forget to file their Celibacy Oath.

Won't sex with a Deltan kill a human?

They were Deltans? I thought they were chemo patients.

Great opening episode. I went from watching Discovery to this, and it was night and day as far as portraying Star Trek.

The Q aging joke was perfect. Loved seeing the Stargazer again. And the Excelsior, too. The Guinan cameo was well done.

I liked how they explain how Guinan, who is a slow aging El Aurian, looks old and fat, because Whoppi is old and fat.

In both cases, they have to say "Oh, we just choose to look this awful." As if ageless aliens would choose to have thinner hair, wrinkles, and a spare tire.

Luckily, no one has to ask when Captain Picard turned into a leather Muppet. He's 300 years old now, and his voice is going, but the show is gold until Sir Patrick kicks the bucket.

I like how Marina Sirtis calls him "Ol' Baldy," or now "Sir Ol' Baldy."

Wait - who was the secondary character that was killed off? I can't remember anyone.

Loved the new Borg.

[quote]Wait - who was the secondary character that was killed off? I can't remember anyone.

Zhaban. Laris's husband.

Episode 2 - Oh, my! So far, Picard Season 2 has been great. It's a gritty version of Star Trek but it works.

What do the new borg look like, and where do they come from?

The scene with the trophy skulls was a bit grim.

Nice shout outs to Gul Dukat, Martok, Sarek and Sisko!

R1 In theory Icheb is alive again!

Is Kate Mulgrew spitting chips that Jerri Ryan has a prominent role?

Stewart should be used sparingly. He's too old and doddery.

The new Borg Queen seems a bit charisma free.

Couldn't they get Susana Thompson or Alice Krige back?

[quote]Is Kate Mulgrew spitting chips that Jerri Ryan has a prominent role?

Why? She has a starring role on Prodigy and doesn't even have to sit in hair/make-up to get her job done.

The Raffi character is growing on me, and Capt. Rios is sexy.

Think they're playing the new Borg Queen right. She's not going to tip her hand, and you know she's plotting behind that placid facade.

Wow great episode!

Oh great, they jettisoned the deadweight Isa Briones only to saddle us with her equally untalented father, Jon Jon!

Yeah, Jon Jon Briones is a casting miss in that role. There are a lot of other actors who could have played the loyal but sinister husband of the President.

[quote]There are a lot of other actors who could have played the loyal but sinister husband of the President.

Could have made it really interesting and had it be someone like Harry Kim or Tom Paris.

R27 That would have been interesting. Or Julian Bashir, mostly because the actor who played Dr. Bashir has a better range. It would be fun for them to introduce a live action version of one of the "Lower Deck" characters, like an alternate timeline version of Beckett Mariner or Brad Boimler and played by the actors who voice those characters. There was a reference to Rutherford in the Academy scene in the first episode.

That was a cliffhanger of an episode!

Definite cliff-hanger. Good solid episode. And it subverted expectations with that ending.

I am loving Season 2 so far. Thank god that annoying synthetic chick isn't going to be a main character. God I hated her. The cast is very solid. Alison Pill's rambling monologue was lol funny. Michelle Hurd is always wonderful in everything.

R20 Kate Mulgrew has mended fences with Jeri Ryan in recent years and the two are on friendly terms. Indeed, the other day Jeri Ryan tweeted that Star Trek Picard just wrapped production for it's third and final season, and Kate Mulgrew tweeted congratulations to her. As for the Borg Queen, Susanna Thompson is 65 and Alice Krige is almost 70 I suspect neither was keen on putting on all those prosthetics and hanging from the ceiling all day. I found Annie Weshching's performance as the Queen a bit bland but we're only one episode in.

R27 & R28 Based on some things Terry Matalas and Akiva Goldsmith have said, it sounds like due to covid protocols in place during the filming of season 2, some of the plans they had in place (e.g. cameos and appearances from more TNG alumni) had to be changed. I did love the mention of Sisko this week.

Do they reveal what race the borg evolved from?

Elnor is a hot badass. Get him naked, please.

Last season I loathed Agnes but now she is fast becoming one of my favorites with her constant use of the word shit and her pet cartoon cat.

She has some kind of connection to the Borg Queen so I'm curious to learn more about that.

Kate Mulgrew and Jeri Ryan kissed and made up some time ago. Kate admitted that during Voyager she felt put out because she was the star of the show and then they brought in this gorgeous young woman who got a ton of attention and Kate did not like that at all. But she later let go of her grudge and speaks fondly of Ryan now.

R35 My theory is Agnes becomes the Borg Queen we saw on the Stargazer in the first episode.

Kate must hate that Jeri didn't get fat like Kate did post Voyager.

Jeri still looking good while Kate was like Jabba the hut on OITNB.

Yeah, Kate put on a lot of menopause weight.

E2 was a strong episode. Well done Picard cast and crew.

Excellent second episode. The world building was well done. Loved all the references to other characters and even episodes (the "yesterday's Enterprise" line was great).

I'm really looking forward to the rest of the season.

I'm kind of loving Agnes this season.

Yes, so far Season 2 is excellent. Intriguing story and great acting from the whole cast. Allison Pill is a delight.

So we are seeing the beginning of the mirror universe here, or a version of, that Picard has to undo in order to impress Q?

I just hope they keep the story tight and don’t end up creating time analogy word salad like Dr. Who scripts to dig themselves out of cross time capers that make no sense. (I’m talking about you, Moffat.)

[quote]There are a lot of other actors who could have played the loyal but sinister husband of the President.

Pity Mickey Rooney is dead.

There is a major force now to continue Sisko's story.

Glad to see DS9 (my fave) finally get some love and respect.

R46 Avery Brooks isn't coming back to Star Trek. He hasn't done a convention appearance in years, and even then, he was practically Garbo-esque in his seclusion.

The DS9 cast were mostly theater people, and that's where they've all returned. A few of them are legends on the convention circuit (where an actor can clear twenty grand in a weekend of telling jokes and signing glossies), but most seem content to stay away from it all. Chase Masterson and Andrew Robinson are all over the fan-centered events, but Nana Visitor and Avery Brooks are too busy starring in "Pippin" at the Burt Reynolds Dinner Theatre to care about signing autographs or telling cute stories.

R47 Avery Brooks seems to have gone a little nuts if we're being honest. I remember seeing him in that Shatner documentary several years back and I was like, wtf is he talking about! Also just a correction, Nana Visitor makes Trek related appearances all the time. She was just on the Trek Cruise apparently, and she usually does two or three conventions a year. Out of the surviving DS9 cast and excluding Brooks, Colm Meany and Alexander Siddig rarely make convention appearances at all, the rest do appear frequently.

R48 Avery was always a weirdo. But as long as he stuck to teaching and stage work in New Jersey, no one would notice. He's got that Will Smith vibe about him - Genuinely talented, but he talks like someone who spent too much time staring at the sun as a child. His sentences and stream-of-consciousness rambles make no sense.

Nana did Gates McFadden's podcast recently, and told a very dark sexual story that came out of nowhere. But as an aside, I loved Gates' podcast and wish it had continued. She has a great voice for it, and has plenty of good stories from her years studying mime and working for Jim Henson's puppeteers.

Um... what was the 'very dark story'?!?

She was raped leaving the studio one night.

[quote]Avery was always a weirdo. But as long as he stuck to teaching and stage work in New Jersey, no one would notice. He's got that Will Smith vibe about him - Genuinely talented, but he talks like someone who spent too much time staring at the sun as a child.

Apparently they’d planned on having one more season of DS9 but by that point Brooks had chewed up all the scenery and paramount didn’t want to spring for new sets.

R52 The show ended where it should have - with the end of the war/conflict that lasted half the series. The only downside to that final season was the change in the Dax character. Terry Farrell was outstanding in her version, and the little Canadian enby who took her place just couldn't measure up for one season.

It's like watching BJ or Allison on "Designing Women." Not the same.

Yeah the 7th season of DS9 is actually fairly lacklustre.

"Picard" in Season is not Star Trek.

It is the ultra-commercialized, woke, women-infested-production confusion and whacked priorities of Paramount, trying to Disney-fy itself for the masses who still bother.

R55 It's their attempt to "Betty White" poor Sir Patrick Stewart and give him one last hit before he dies of old age.

They DO have a woke-bullshit series, but it's Discovery, not Picard. That show has a gay interracial couple, a gay/trans/nonbinary couple, an asexual captain, a pansexual robot, and on and on. The ship is basically Starfleet's sexual buffet - One of everything, and none of it has any flavor.

Discovery never caught on, it's very niche. Strange New Worlds looks promising.

The only one of the new shows that seems to have universal appeal among us vintage Trekkies is "Lower Decks." The other shows are too glitzy, too loud, and too radically different from the Star Trek we know and love.

A lot of Trekkies also like Seth Macfarlane's "The Orville." It's a worthy successor to the idealism of Star Trek.

I'm warming up to Prodigy.

What became of the android girl and the scary yellow-eyed synths storyline that started the show?

That story finished in Season 1 and the show moved on. (Unlike the Deep Space 9 fans who always overtake every Star Trek related thread to wax lyrical about a show that was average at best.)

[quote] a pansexual robot, and on and on.

How can a machine have any kind of sexuality?

How did they wrap up cyber messiah's storyline and did she take out the BDF androids?

R15 Too bad, I hoped it was discount!Legolas.

Let's hope that the "broken reality" that needs to be fixed is Season 1 - and all of Discovery would be a nice bonus. This drek ain't Trek.

FUCK!

Q better bring his hot lil ass back. That's all I'm saying!

"Shit I stole from the Borg Queen." -- Agnes, LOL, in E3.

The spaceship crash wasn't detected?

R66 Bring him back in a loincloth and I might be in favor.

"What you have just done here is more difficult and vastly more dangerous than you realize...

...you've IMPRESSED me."

R66 He's not dead. The actor has hinted he'll be back and also there is a scene with him in the trailer with Seven and Raffi in outfits we haven't seen them in yet.

Alison Pill is crushing it this season. Best thing about the show right now.

Alison Pill looks like a lesbian. Is she one, or does she just carry herself like one?

I think the person upthread might be correct when they said the Borg queen of the future might be Alison Pill.

R74 I certainly hope not.

That would be embarrassingly bad writing/storytelling.

If that turns out to be the case I’ll start watching the show.

[R75] Picard's embarrassingly bad dialogue as he was trying to coach Agnes through the assimilation process should satisfy you enough to start watching.

R73 She's married to a man.

The series does seem to be hinting at the Borg Queen that beamed aboard the Stargazer possibly being Agnes. If that's what the show goes with, there better be a hell of an explanation for why. Annie Wersching is doing a great job as the Borg Queen.

Meanwhile, Sir Pat Stewart's voice has lost its booming quality. He's still as commanding and charismatic as he was during "Next Gen," but it's hard to ignore his aging in some scenes.

I hope he survives making season 3 (the finale Picard season).

It really feels touch-and-go to be honest.

And American Dad will never be the same without him.

Is he the hardest working most employed actor of his age? I mean, he's pushing 90, right?

He's almost 82.

R79 They finished filming season three about two weeks ago, so the series is in the bag now. Stewart is 82, but yeah he is probably the oldest person heading a TV series these days.

R78 Yes his voice is not as strong as it used to be, which is a normal part of aging. The reality is you're not meant to ignore his aging that's part of the show's central theme. Although I have mixed feelings about the series as a whole, I'll give the producers credit for headlining an elderly actor and not shying away from the fact that he is elderly. American media is so youth obsessed even on the rare occasions we see older people headline a movie or series, it's often focused around the idea of "how youthful they act." It's nice to see them not shying away from the fact that Picard is hella old.

The 3rd season is the final season, no?

I wonder if the cast will transport 100s of years in the future to show the Discovery crew how to create a compelling storyline?

Yes they're only doing 3 seasons

Any idea about the plot of season 3?

Please no R83. Then we would have to endure Michael whisper-lecturing Picard on how to be a good Starfleet captain.

R82 Yes Season 3 is the final season.

R85 No the production is keeping everything very tight-lipped. The only thing we do know is it takes place fully on a Starfleet ship (likely the stargazer). The show runners have hinted it'll be more Starfleet focused. There are rumours that there is going to be a big cast change given that some members of the Picard cast were working on other projects while season 3 was filming.

No Elnor? No Raffi? No Laris?

Maybe it will be aboard the Enterprise with Cap. Worf

R88 The only actors were know are 100% in the third season are Patrick Stewart, Jeri Ryan and Michelle Hurd. While season 3 was filming, Allison Pill (based on her IG) moved to New York and began filming a new TV series called "Hello Tomorrow" which will air on Apple TV. Santiago Cabrera was filming a reoccurring role on the series "Flight Attendant" and also based on his IG he was also doing some travelling. Given the strictness of actor's contracts, it's unlikely they would have been allowed to pursue other projects if they part of season 3.

Isa Briones and Evan Evagora have been busy on the convention circuit and were on the Star Trek cruise while the finale of season 3 was still filming. COVID protocols in place during the filming of seasons 2 and 3 didn't allow cast to attend in person conventions (something Michelle Hurd accidentally let slip when she appeared virtually at the Las Vegas convention last year). Finally, Orla Brady (Laris) was back in Ireland.

R88 There are rumors that the third season involves some kind of TNG reunion. For sure LeVar Burton and Gates McFadden will probably be showing up at some point.

Is Allison Pill the one that came out as an anti-vaxxer?

R90 Nope. No one from the Picard series has come out as an anti-vaxxer. The cast actually had to be vaccinated before being allowed to film the second season.

I wonder who the s3 villain could be.

Hopefully they give the Borg a rest and Q is just this season.

Maybe a nefarious Sela plot after Romulus exploded?

I want the number of Jeri Ryan's surgeon. Bitch is in her fifties and looks amazing.

YAAAS r93!

R93 I actually don't think Jeri Ryan has had a ton of work done (if anything probably good skincare and some botox along with good TV makeup). She frequently posts pics on her IG with no makeup on and she looks noticeably older.

R92 The producers have confirmed season 3 is a different story line from season 2 and there is not Q or Borg Queen.

I’ve seen Patrick Stewart on talk shows and doing Shakespeare readings and fostering pit bulls on social media a lot the last year or so, and he seems like he’s perfectly sharp, and unusually active and spry for 82. It’s not like he’s sundowning or “going downhill fast” or something. I’m glad because I love him, he’s one of the good ones.

R86 No, Burnham will turn out to be Picard's mother, and Kirk's mother, and Archer's mother, and Wesley's father.

Picard's "big regret" will be not taking a turn at Wesley's ass when he was young and fresh like the rest of the officers did.

[quote]Picard's "big regret" will be not taking a turn at Wesley's ass when he was young and fresh like the rest of the officers did.

My favorite TNG episode was the one where a drunk Riker kicked open the door to Wesley's room late one night, started rubbing his crotch an said "I know you've been wanting this you little bitch, and tonight you're gonna get it!" Riker then proceeded to tear of Wesley's clothes and make savage, but passionate love to him.

It wasn't just officers who got a turn at Wesley's ass, he generously shared it with other male Enterprise personnel. The back of his pants let them have easy access, as we can see here.....

Wesley was such a nice young man - we shouldn't blame him for his insatiable appetite for D.

Shut up, Wesley! And suck my dick.

Baby Guinan!

Plus we finally learn why the French Picard has a British accent.

I really liked this week's episode though the Guinan stuff had me confused. Why was she so young here? And she had previously met Picard in the 19th century.

r103 I'm confused too.

This seemed like a filler episode to me.

I love how Seven had no idea how to drive a car and was terrible at it.

R103 The Enterprise-D didn't exists in this timeline so "Time's Arrow" hasn't happened I guess.

Agnes is definitely the new Borg queen piloting that Borg ship from the future which looks like a metal vagina.

Who was the watcher?? I don't remember the character. I'm bad at faces, sorry. But Picard knew her?

[quote]And she had previously met Picard in the 19th century.

I think you're assuming linear time.

R109 It is Laris. The Romulan woman who Picard nearly banged int the first episode.

R109 Picard knew that she could change her appearance. Also, Black woman with the hair who is the bartender at 10-Forward.

Also, why is it called 10 here? The name referred to the lounge being on the forward part of deck 10 of the Enterpise-D.

It's like the writers skimmed some stuff from TNG but didn't bother actually knowing the details.

When Guinan was talking about how hatred had "taken off the hood and put on a suit," I wish they'd had the balls to come out and say "...and put on a hat." Really piss the right people off.

Oh! Laris is the same thing that Gary Seven was. That's awesome.

Patrick Stewart’s voice sounds frail.

I thought the same thing, R113 . But I also thought they should have gone all the way and said, "little red hat". A bit on the nose, but fuck it- just be painfully direct.

There are so many Trekkies who hate the more recent efforts, including "Picard", calling it "Woke Trek" instead of "Star Trek". Some how, I suspect young Guinan's words-especially a reference to the hat- would have upset those same people. Good.

There were also so many visual references to City of the Edge of Forever that I missed the first time. That was supposed to be set in New York, but you can see Guinan donating things to the 21st Street Mission, which was Edith Keeler's shelter.

Also, Lea Thompson is a GREAT director. I hope they fold her into their regular stable, although since Disco and Strange New Worlds film in Toronto, they might not.

Cracks me up how there are actually Star Trek fans bemoaning the presence of liberal social commentary on the shows, when Star Trek has literally always been like that. What the hell have they been watching for decades?

All the chest thumping has me remembering Picard and Guinan talking about slavery during Data's "trial".

DISCO should be put out of its misery. It's just boring, except for the Reno character, and she's a very small part of the series.

The Agnes/Borg Queen plot is the most interesting part of the show.

Past!Guinan's bar being 10 Forward was silly. The producers said on Twitter that "Time's Arrow" didn't happen since it's still technically the other timeline.

The Dixon Hill book at the end had former "Next Gen" writer Tracy Torme listed as the author. Nice in-joke.

[quote]The producers said on Twitter that "Time's Arrow" didn't happen since it's still technically the other timeline.

Exactly. Time travel doesn't make sense at all, so it's silly to complain that they're using one particular set of rules.

No one watching anymore?

I think it just keeps getting better.

The Borg Queen and Agnes are killing it.

R124 I'm still watching! Although I'm finding some of the plot to be a too convenient (I think the trailers actually gave too much away), it's a massive improvement over the first season. The Borg Queen/Agnes are the best part of the show. Anges is totally the BQ we saw in the first episode. I also think Rios is going to stay in the 21st century, I am also thinking the Watcher is actually Laris.

Her little PADD thingie was in Romulan.

I just wish she had a cat that turned into a woman like Gary Seven.

Is it just me or did the whole show grind to a halt every time Brent Spiner appeared? And I really can't stand the actress playing his daughter.

Just get to the part where they travel back to the 21st century and prevent Bad Robot from taking over Trek.

Yeah, R127, the Spiner scenes were dull as hell and felt like filler.

Did Q create the alternative timeline to restore his powers?

The Agnes/Borg Queen plot gets better every week. No way is the Queen at the beginning of the season not Agnes.

The gala plot feels like something out of Mission: Impossible.

R129 I agree. I really wish they'd stop bringing Brent Spiner back and I pray he isn't in the third season! In the first season it worked because it brought the closer to Data that we didn't get in Nemesis but I've never like Spiner outside of his role as Data. There other TNG actors I'd rather see if they want to bring back Trek alumni. I do feel like using Orla Brady and the actress who plays Soji might have had to with covid as well so there were fewer guest actors.

The Agnes/Borg Queen story is by far the most interesting of the season but sadly it likely means Alison Pill is not going to be in the third season (this was pretty much a given as Pill appears to moved to New York last fall and is filming another series now).

So far this season is an improvement over the first but I kind of feel like it's a retread of stuff we've seen in Star Trek several times over now.

From what I understand Season 3 will only feature Stewart, Ryan, Hurd and De Lancie.

R131 De Lanice is not in season three. Akiva Goldsmith and De Lancie confirmed that in press for season 2. Season 3 will be a different story but yes so far we know for sure Stewart, Ryan and Hurd are in it, but I am assuming there will be other new or returning characters (from Picard and/or TNG). I have a feeling season 3 will feature some kind of TNG reunion even if it's just a final scene.

Before Jada Smith keeps spewing her Alopecia bullshit she needs to look at the twins that play the synths on the show.

They should bring in Quark for season 3.

R132 Picard will wake up and realize that it was all a bad dream (including Discovery).

[quote]They should bring in Quark for season 3.

Or Pac Man. Chasing them around the ship.

Definitely seems they are setting up Agnes as the Borg Queen from the start of the season, but I expect at least one more twist in that storyline. In the meantime, it's the most interesting thing about this season and Allison Pill has been really good. I'll be sad not to have her around for S3, especially if we get more Spiner (ugh!). I could easily jettison that storyline and hope it doesn't eat up too much more time going forward.

Yeah, let go of Spiner. Bring back Geordi. Or Wesley!

What episode are they on?

How many episodes this year?

There are a total of 10 episodes of Picard Season 2.

Six episodes have aired so far, meaning we have four more to go.

There's really not a way to bring back Spiner unless we see a return of the character he played in the first season. They've said that the final season is going to be based on a starship.

Which also lends credence to the idea that Rios will stay in the past.

In the original show, I liked Spiner/Data as part of the ensemble cast but cringed at a lot of the episodes that focused on him, and that became much too common in the later seasons.

I like Data but he was never my favourite character and he drove me nuts in the movies which were the Picard/Data show at the expense of the rest of the cast.

I really hope Spiner is not in season 3. Spiner pisses me off because he spent so much time bitching about how he'd never do Star Trek again, and yet every time they call he does it.

Spiner like wrote/directed some of those movies. Ugh. Yeah, he (the actor) and he (the character) are best in smaller supporting roles.

S3 is all about Neelix and his day to day work as Moral Officer on the Starship Worst Character Ever.

R145 Assuming we are excluding Discovery characters, I'd that Chakotay gives Neelix a run for his money.

I heard Beverly Crusher was coming back?

R147 Perhaps she'll tell Wesley to shut up, and shave that ratty beard.

The Data character was flawed from season one of TNG with that ridiculous storyline of a virus making an android drunk and horny.

Breaking: The Entire TNG cast will be main characters next season on Picard

R150 I knew it!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I suspected something was up when Gates McFadden postponed the second season of her podcast due to "work commitments" added to the fact that most of the cast suddenly went silent on social media.

Will any of the current cast be joining them?

R152 Only Jeri Ryan and Michelle are for sure known to be in the third season.

You bitches can "MARY!" me all you want, but I was both smiling and crying tears of joy watching that announcement trailer!

The promo:

R154 I was too! I grew up on TNG and Nemesis was such a shitty send-off I've been dying for a reunion for 20 years!!!!

[quote]You bitches can "MARY!" me all you want, but I was both smiling and crying tears of joy watching that announcement trailer!

I was waiting for the subway and I almost started jumping up and down.

If it takes place on a ship then I'm assuming they are back on the Enterprise.

Are the audio clips new or old? Because Spiner does not sound at all like Data. I would assume it was Lore.

R159 I think it's one of his many Soong characters. Unless may Lore is the main bad guy ........ I was kind of hoping Spiner wouldn't be in season 3 but if they are getting the whole gang together, I'll deal. Also Terry Matalas hinted lots of Beverly/Picard stuff too.

Season 3's working title is: Return to Farpoint

[quote]Season 3's working title is: Return to Farpoint

Should be Return to Fatpoint.

Number One looks a little chunky.

Kudos to everyone involved with Star Trek for keeping this hush hush for 10 months. Of particular note Jonathan Frakes and Marina Sirtis who are huge blabber mouths lol.

TNG inspired? Looking forward to episodes about turbo lift breakdowns and holodeck malfunctions aplenty…

Well, this plot has taken a huge turn toward stupid.

Well, a huge turn to stupid is a tradition. Synth Picard? Waiting for all 10 episodes to drop for a big binge.

This season of Picard started off so good but last week’s episode was boring as shit. I’m already ready for Season 3 and the TNG reunion.

R165 In an interview yesterday, Terry Matalas stated that he was only heavily involved in the first three episodes of season 2 and that Akiva Goldsmith took over from episode 4 onward so Matalas could focus on season 3 which was being shot right after season 2. This likely explains the dip in quality because Goldsmith is a terrible writer.

The Brent Spiner subplot is really dragging the show down.

It's all over the place now. Characters are just plopped into place for stupid reasons (Seven's only appearance was to socialize with women at the party so Raffi could say she was happy about it?). The caper to get to the party was lame, and had little payoff. Why have the watcher be a Laris clone?

The whole watcher premise is thin, although I love the Gary Seven tie in, what's the point in guarding a timeline if you can't intervene? Dumb. And, the previous poster is right, the whole Spiner plot is contrived, and why would Q manipulate him to try to stop Picard, when Q is the one who put PIcard in the situation. Dumb Dumb and Dumber.

And having Jurati burst into unplanned song just as the Queen EMP's the blackout was just the ludicrous topping on the whole mudpie.

I honestly don’t get Q fucking with the timeline only to test Picard and crew to see if they can fix it by doing something something goodness but also trying to make them fail?

And aren’t there any other beings who can sense chronological disturbances and fix them as soon as Q fucks them up? Or is Q the only god-like creature who can be bothered testing ants to see if they have morals?

[quote]Both RSTUV and LMNOP were busy handling other business. The remaining letters are too far away to notice anything unusual.

Picard said to Q way back at the beginning of the season, "Q, you're not well."

My theory is this is some sort of revenge on Q's part. He's sick, losing his powers, possibly dying, and somehow he sees it as Picard's fault. If Q and Picard had never met, Q would not be losing his powers and his life, so take out Picard's ancestor whose actions also helped bring about co-operation between Earth's countries. Add to this Picard is relatively healthy and will live an appropriately long life before his synth body shuts down, which is more salt in Q's wound. That's just my guess.

I do find it odd there is no mention of Q's wife and twink son from the "Voyager" era.

So why doesn’t Q just change the timeline and NOT bring Picard and crew back so they have a chance to fix it?

This is why time travel stories suck. Too many variables that never get answered.

Q's twink son from Voyager was the actor's actual son, R173.

R174 So he gets the double pleasure of watching Picard fail and Picard seeing his future end? I'm just guessing.

R175 I know, but I was referring to within the show. Not even so much as a throw away reference.

Q's son not so "twinky" anymore...

Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I am enjoying this season, it's a marked improvement over the first. That being said, beyond the plot holes these season seems to be suffering from the same mid-season "mystery box" lag as Discovery. Clearly they are getting characters into place for the final two episodes but in doing so there are too many unanswered questions that are hindering the dramatic tension and stakes. The big question is why is Q behaving the way he is. If we actually knew that answer, if we knew Q's motivation we'd have an idea what is actually at stake. Also why Renee must go on this mission or else the future is changed has not be clearly defined and the "we just have to keep her at the party" is really dull. Other time travel stores like First Contact and DS9's Past Tense did this way better. Both stories set up the event and why it was so important to history.

R178 Picard's refusal to go do whatever Q was asking him to do at the start is the key, I think.

Just for clarity: Season 2 of Picard was a mix of Terry Matalas and Akiva Goldsmith being co-showrunners with Goldsmith overseeing much of the creative decisions (Season 2 was already being worked on when Matalas came in to replace Chabon). Season 3 is completely Matalas as Goldsmith went over to take the reigns of Strange New Worlds. Basically Matalas co-wrote the first two episodes of Season 2 (which so far have been then best) and then went off to get Season 3 going since it was going to be shot right after 2.

Yes R171, Where's "Kevin" who wiped out an entire species just by willing it, or Nagilum, the giant floating space face that could bend the fabric of reality at will, where are those guys?

Lol R171 . Nope, not twinky at all anymore! He resembles his father, but not quite as handsome.

I enjoyed S1 and it reawakened my love of Trek. But S2 has been so much better up to this point. Each episode seems like it's just getting started and BOOM! Cliffhanger! These last three dragging episodes could have been one single, solid tight episode, maybe two, with better writing, especially pacing. Is it really necessary to drag it out for this number of episodes? Quality not quantity. All I can remember is Renee's Europa mission is important because it was an example of sorely needed worldwide co-operation. I think it was mentioned when Picard first found Watcher Laris.

Back in the 90's, I never understood why they acted like Spiner was Trek's Olivier, Data was the best character ever and everything must stop for everyone to stand in awe of his acting talents. But dear God, you best not speak that opinion out loud! This season would have proceeded just fine without shoehorning in yet another member of the Soong family tree. I always skip his episodes of "Enterprise".

Sorry, I meant R177 !

Sorry, I meant R177 .

Sorry for the double post!

Brent Spiner WROTE and/or DIRECTED some of those episodes (and movies) so there's definitely an ego involved there.

There's a guy on YouTube (Israeli, I think? from the accent, could be wrong) who goes by the name "NitPicking Nerd" who does very in-depth geeky reviews of Picard and the other current Star Trek series. I prefer his reviews to the show - he's very scathing in his assessments but I tend to agree with him.

The season has really slowed down, and now it feels a little aimless. The Renee Picard plot seems purposefully vague to delay the end of season stinger, which might have to do with Q's plot, whatever that is. Meanwhile, we have to endure the Soong plot, which is SO dull, and Spiner's acting is so hammy, which makes the scenes even more of a slog.

I'll predict Agnes somehow takes control of the Borg Queen, and the rest of the Collective itself, hence the desire for a truce/alliance at the beginning of the season.

Spiner just looks so gross now.

I see Spiner constantly at Cons and he is a genuinely nice guy. And he works very hard, so I don't blame him for riding this Star Trek wagon til its wheels fall off. Hell, a lot of others do it, too.

One of these days I'm going to get up the nerve to ask him about that Anne Droidz nutter from the Trekkies documentary.

R188 Apparently the second half of this season (episodes 5 to 10) were were written under the direction of Akiva Goldsmith, Terry Matalas moved over to start work on Season 3, and it's showing. Goldsmith is a terrible writer and I don't understand how he keeps working, it also worries me that he's in charge of Strange New Worlds.

[quote]One of these days I'm going to get up the nerve to ask him about that Anne Droidz nutter from the Trekkies documentary.

BRENT BREAK!!!!

They brought Picard's nephew back somehow?

[quote]Q's son not so "twinky" anymore...

There is a James Spader face in that kid's future at R177's link.

A few minutes in and this new episode is a snooze...

Hope it gets better.

This episode is not making any sense. His mom was murdered by monsters? The devil???

This shrink character is lame, too.

Finally....Agnes!

This episode was a definite clunker.

They'll have the whole thing be a simulation, like the ST:Enterprise finale.

Another waste of an episode. What did we learn that advances the story? Guinan's genie bottle doesn't work?

I actually really liked this episode, but I understand why some people hated it. This episode was meant to be somewhat known sensible because were trapped in Picard's mind for part of it dealing with disjointed memories and trauma. Basically the monsters were metaphor for Picard's mother's mental illness. We we're seeing the events of through a child's eyes who didn't understand it what was happening. It also appears that Picard's father wasn't abusive towards his mother but perhaps angry with her that she didn't seek help. I also think the mother might have killed herself or something as there is more to the story we don't have yet.

R200 I think Q not showing up is meant to single, the Q have lost their powers.

I didn't hate the episode, but it was definitely not what I was wanting. The show seems like it's just throwing plots at the wall to see what sticks. We spent the last few episodes focusing on Renee Picard's struggles, and her storyline ends with just a throwaway line about how she'll be fine. Now we have the FBI entering the picture? Really?

I really can't stand Raffi. Making her and Seven a couple feels so forced.

I enjoyed the episode. This season really is about Picard trying to know himself and that he's actually gone back in time to meet his ancestor who started his own journey is a great metaphor for what they are doing.

I agree that Raffi is annoying as fuck. Seven would have better taste. The actress playing Raffi is rough as hell.

I actually like Michelle Hurd who plays Raffi and I always have. She could use a tad softening up though. I think she thought of Elnor as a son and considering her asshole of a real son has cut her off, Elnor’s death has really fucked her up. I hope for her sake the time adjustment brings Elnor back.

I'd like to think that Season 3 is happening because the writers finally realized how much they'd fucked the franchise, but I doubt it.

Probably the end of Season 3 will show how Michael Burnham saved the day as usual.

They'll have Picard meet Burnham so that he can tell her he studied her at SF Academy. And then she'll whisper, "Thank youuuuu..."

R206 Then she'll reveal that she is both his mother and daughter.

I'm surprised no one noticed that there were two actors on this last episode that were on the 12 Monkeys TV Series. I think it was intentional since this season is about time travel and that's what 12 monkeys was. The actor who played Picard's dad was one and the cop at the end who arrested Picard and Guinan was also a cop on 12 monkeys. I thought it was a nice little nod to another show about Time Travel.

I think they have missed a trick with the absence of Picard's nephew. We know he wanted a career in the stars like his uncle. I'm surprised no star trek storyline or franchise has utilized him.

Maybe we find out he died young?

Picard's brother and nephew died in a fire, R209.

I listened to Gates McFadden's podcast and she actually has a straightforward midwest accent. Her Dr Crusher mangled mid Atlantic accent is all a put on. No wonder she got fired from season 1 of TNG for bad acting. Does she revert to form in season 3 of Picard.

[quote]No wonder she got fired from season 1 of TNG for bad acting

She got fired because she rightly complained about the quality of the scripts and because she didn't want to fuck one of the producers.

R211 I like Gates McFadden but when you go back and watch TNG, she often uses an "affected" accent when she's playing Dr. Crusher. But as R212 points out, McFadden was fired because she openly complained about the quality (or lack thereof) of the scripts in Season 1. She also felt upset that whenever Wesley had a problem he'd turn to one of the male characters and not his mother. Ironically, her complaints were nothing that Patrick Stewart and some of the other men in the cast vocalized, but being a woman she was seen as being a diva. Also yes, there is the rumour that Maurice Hurley was sexually harassing Gates and she refused to fuck him to keep her job.

They replaced Gates with Diana Muldaur, who only lasted one season because she was such a cunt. They were all glad to be rid of her and have Gates back.

R202, ask Mariska...

[quote]They replaced Gates with Diana Muldaur, who only lasted one season because she was such a cunt. They were all glad to be rid of her and have Gates back.

It was quite mutual. The cast was terrible to her. Patrick Stewart gave her shit because she had so much trouble with the technobabble she used cue cards. And since the effects of gravity on 50-year-old women are what they are, she wasn't comfortable in the regular uniform, so they gave her a special one, which the rest of them resented.

That said, she really cunts it up in Shatner's TNG documentary, so I'm not calling her completely innocent.

VOTN I couldn't believe Muldaur was only 50 on TNG so I looked it up and you're right. Wow! She looked much older than that.

[quote]VOTN I couldn't believe Muldaur was only 50 on TNG so I looked it up and you're right. Wow! She looked much older than that.

Life before Botox, I guess. I think she had work done at some point, because she didn't look that different when Shatner was interviewing her 25 years later.

I did like the detail that she owned a show dog named Pulaski.

I liked Pulaski and it'd be nice to see her pop up on Picard but that'll never happen.

You're the only one r219. Everybody else hated that bitch and her mulletperm.

The character got off to a bad start by mocking and mistreating Data, which made a lot of people hate Pulaski.

[quote]The character got off to a bad start by mocking and mistreating Data, which made a lot of people hate Pulaski.

That was what made me like her in the first place.

Whenever I do a TNG re-watch I have to admit the Pulaski character was far more interesting then Beverly. I think she made more of an impact in one season than Crusher made in six.

I think that with Pulaski the writers were trying to create a rivalry with Data in the same way as between Spock and Bones. But they just didn't understand what really went into the Spock-Bones friendship, plus Pulaski was brand new, so it just came off as mean-spirited and hateful. It wasn't a good look for the character, particularly at the start of her run.

I think Pulaski has some great moments, but in the end Crusher just feels like a better fit. Some of the stuff with Crusher and Picard towards the end of the series is wonderful, and you wish the writers would've allowed a proper romance to develop.

Ok...show is back on track now and that ending was killer.

R225 I thought this week's episode was better EXCEPT the whole FBI dude's story. The whole unreliable reality of memory felt redundant since that's what last week's episode was about. I loved the Seven/Raffi story except I didn't like the fact Raffi a manipulative asshole with Elnor because that just seems totally out of the blue compared to her interaction with him earlier in the season. I think that scene should be been revealed earlier in the season.

That being said, yes I think this episode's ending is going to be setting up a much faster paced final two episodes.

Alison Pill and Annie Wersching are killing it this season. The Agnes-Borg Queen dark comedy act is the best part of the show right now.

It pains me to say so, but I never want to see Brent Spiner again.

Me too r228. He's dragging the show down in all his scenes.

I need a Brent Break!

A Brentxit is what's needed.

So is Hot Rios staying with mother or son or are they going with him back to the future?

I think they're going to the future.

I'd say the odds of mother & son getting a Men-in-Black-mind-wipe(tm) are about 50-50.

And the mind wipe will be done by not-Laris and her magic pen.

They already revealed what Rio's choice will be in the episode where he talked about how much he loved the time period they are in and Rios warned him to not get attached. He's staying and I'm sure the woman will make the excuse that she's too needed in 2024 to leave her clinic.

Sorry, Rafi told him not get attached.

[quote]I'd like to think that Season 3 is happening because the writers finally realized how much they'd fucked the franchise, but I doubt it.

Even by Covid standards it's odd that they both filmed two seasons back-to-back and seemingly did so after killing off the majority of the current cast. Keeping the cast together is more often the *point* of filming back-to-back stuff amidst Covid. Considering how many ST series are in the works, the most logical explanation is Sir Patrick deciding to (at long last) retire.

That said, the producers are quite clearly trying to FIX the franchise starting this season, not next. "Discovery" is the show that's taking *actual* storytelling challenges and truly going where no one has gone before. Its past two seasons have been remarkably innovative, especially after losing all of its pre-Kirk Enterprise trappings from S2. It's the single best embodiment of the original Trek ethos to date, aside from TOS.

But "Picard"? Surely I'm not the only one who's noticed that nearly this entire season is a mash-up of "The Voyage Home" (slingshot-time-travel around the sun, arriving in present-day-at-time-of-filming California - even down to the trip on a crosstown bus that featured the same "punk rocker" as the movie did nearly 40 years ago) and "First Contact" (yet more time travel, yet more Borg queen, etc.), along with making Seven a regular character instead of guest star and devising a way to include Brent Spiner, along with a dash of "Yesterday's Enterprise" and the penultimate episode of "Enterprise" (the one that took place in an authoritarian alternate timeline). It may not be a literal reboot, but it's about as close as it gets otherwise.

Meanwhile, plot "inconveniences" from the original shows are largely ignored. The Discovery's spore drive is supposed to be incredible, but the writers must've forgotten the finale of "Voyager" in which Janeway steals a device that can go anywhere in space AND time simultaneously (and would be occurring at roughly the same time as the events in "Picard," albeit in a separate timeline). They must've also forgotten that uncloaked alien objects in the sky would readily appear on any number of modern-day radar scanners, so how the fuck did the ship land in France without anyone noticing?? Seven's gone from a restrained personality in love with Chakotay to spunky ballbuster with endless LESBIAN DRAMA and zero mention of her ex or anyone else from "Voyager." (Still, Jeri Ryan is undeniably HOT TO DEATH, which I say as a gold-star gay man.) Q's gone from immortal god to ... not so much.

Also, smartphones & CCTV cameras record nearly everything nowadays, and yet Picard "isn't sure" who was in his own family? Seriously?? (and especially considering his niece's trip to space appears to be as critical a nexus in future events as First Contact with the Vulcans) Even assuming a WWIII scenario, it's a substantial stretch to assume most archives of 21st-century life would've been somehow erased. (The literal point of creating the internet in the first place was to establish a decentralized means of communication in the event of nuclear war.)

At least they seem to have stopped the anachronistic use of flip-open communicators – as was common even during the '09 J.J. Abrams reboot – now that most of the developed world's population owns an iPhone or Android with significantly greater computing power. (I did like how Seven & Rafi hacked Agnes's phone, however.)

Btw I wouldn't assume that Santiago Cabrera's role on the new season of "The Flight Attendant" means anything one way or the other. He has a minor role, plus he's part of a large ensemble on "Picard," and since both shot in L.A. this year he could've done both simultaneously. (Also, those who watched TFA S1 know that Cassie's boyfriends / fucktoys tend to show up dead at regular intervals.)

R236 I mean reading between the lines (the fact that Pill and Cabrera were working on other jobs while season three was filming) it's been clear Jurati and Rios are being if not written out altogether, they will only have minor roles next season. Same with Elnor and Soji. It became even clearer once they announced the entire TNG cast are going to be regulars next season.

R238 I agree with a lot of your criticisms here. I do feel my biggest disappointment with the season is it does feel like we're covering old territory e.g. travel back in time to save the future. It's been numerous times now in Trek. Like this first season of Picard I think the plotting of the season has failed. Don't get me wrong, I actually think season 2 is an improvement on the first but the second half has been boring and slow paced. I honestly think they should have spent longer in the alternative time line. We got to LA so quickly and now that story is dragging out. Also it's now known, that Terry Matalas was only involved in the first three episodes of season 2 and then went on to write season 3 while Akiva Goldsmith (who was also running the writing for SNW at the same time) took over the rest of the season. Goldsmith is a terrible writer and producer and I think sadly he dropped the ball again as he did in the first season. Matalas apparently wrote most of the third season so I'm hopeful it will be better.

The good stuff in Picard is good this season, the Borg Queen/Jurati stuff has been my favourite, but when it's bad it goes to like first season TNG level....Agnes eating batteries .... okay then.

If the Borg get out of line again, they can just send some Orchids against them - unless there are Romulans of course.

[quote]It became even clearer once they announced the entire TNG cast are going to be regulars next season.

I may have missed something, but I didn't see any mention that they'd be *literal* regulars. Also, we already had Riker / Troi / Data on last season, and Brent Spiner is an ostensible "regular" this season – meaning he's in the opening credits – but he's shown up in, what, two episodes total?

Also, I realize the original six movies were pushing it as far as the characters' ages go, but everyone on TNG aside from that daft cunt Wesley is now a flat-out geezer (and Worf's the only one they can "de-age" Spock-style by virtue of not being human). Why else do you think they had to go with Jeri Ryan as nerd bait?

[quote]I honestly think they should have spent longer in the alternative time line.

Agreed. Alternate time lines have long provided some of Trek's best material, so why spend so little time in this one? I didn't even notice until the "previously on..." parts that Adam Soong has a full-scale (holographic) statue in his honor in alterna-SF. It makes sense *now* that we get how his eugenics experiments in modern-day L.A. could be used to "eliminate" imperfections – a plot with implications stretching to include both the Borg ethos and all the disgusting post-Trump white nationalism (also pre-Trump, but still) – but I wouldn't have caught that bit otherwise.

Also, I just realized a plot hole: if the Borg queen already knew how to travel through time – in both the real *and* alternative timelines – then why the fuck didn't they travel back to Earth after "First Contact" and enslave humanity without those pesky TNG rascals nipping at their heels? (I realize this is Borg Jurati's likely plan, but the Borg have known how to engage in time travel for at least 25 years – dating back to the "First Contact" movie at the very least, since the series seems to otherwise take place in real time since then – so why not make it so sooner?)

Just read that "Strange New Worlds" will adhere to the TOS/TNG format of one-off episodes, instead of the season-long serials on "Discovery" and "Picard." Yay!

r242 that's a smart choice. SNW sounds like the kind of show that is more suited for one-off episodes.

My assumption was that they filmed seasons 2 and 3 back to back because they were afraid Patrick Stewart might die before they finished season 3 if they waited the usual time.

R241 Well according to Terry Matalas Season 3 is going to be the "5th TNG movie" so it does appear that the entire is going to be regulars and not just one or two episodes. The only people we know for sure at in Season 3 from the original Picard cast are Jeri Ryan and Michelle Hurd. It's interesting when the season 3 casting announcement came out, only Ryan and Hurd made comments about it on social media, the rest of the Picard cast said zip and still have said zip.

R242 That's been known since before they started filming the first season of SNW. I prefer serialized TV but after Discovery and Picard's kind of lacklustre seasons the break to episodic Star Trek will be a nice change. I do miss the "boldly going" aspect of Trek so I'm glad SNW is supposed to deliver on that.

R244 They likely did film seasons 2 and 3 back to back in part because of Stewart's age but also apparently they had to because Stewart's contract with CBS was set to expire in June 2022 so they to basically had to or they'd have to renegotiate his contract.

How were the sexy mandroids from season 1 defeated?

I'm just not buying the lez lez between Seven and Rafi. It seems so forced.

This week's episode was a return to form I think. I loved the reference to Janeway although I don't understand why Starfleet wouldn't allow Seven to join but allowed Icheb to.

What was the Janeway reference? I missed that.

This show is the opposite of Discovery. Instead of the main character always being the one to save everyone and figure out every puzzle, PIcard is incapable of doing anything. Except stare at a skeleton key for endless minutes during a firefight.

Can't wait for the last episode to put me out of my misery.

r249, It was when Seven was talking to Rafi. Seven mentioned that Starfleet wouldn't let her join due to her Borg implants and said, "Janeway went to bat for me with Starfleet but they still wouldn't allow it."

I've been watching discovery after dismissing it after season 2. It's actually not any worse than Picard.

Lower decks is the most fun and it's hard to hate it since it's meant to be a silly send up of star trek for adults. I haven't gotten into prodigy as it's an animated series but obviously meant for kids and young adults.

Am I the only one who does not give a flying fuck about Picard's mother? That storyline could have been dropped and there would little difference to the season. They devoted such a significant amount of time to it just so they could explain why we spent such a drabby time in the the freaking basement!

And explain to me how a giant spaceship was hanging out in the French countryside and no one but a police officer was any wiser?

r253, I totally agree!

The Picard's mother scenes were excruciating. I want the main story, not that shit!

The Picard mother storyline seems to be over, thankfully. The nod to "Where No One Has Gone Before" was good.

I'm looking forward to seeing how it all ends and how it sets up the "Next Gen" cast returning for season three.

I liked the latest episode though I think it should have come a week or two earlier because we seem to be headed towards a very rushed finale. As for Picard's mother, I get the dislike of it but I do like how it explains a lot about Picard's character particularly about why he was always so emotionally distant and had a hard time getting close to his crew. But I'm still confused as to how it connects to Q. You're telling me Q changed the history of the Galaxy so Picard could deal with his mommy issues? It's just confusing as fuck and that's really my big problem with this season.

I'm officially nervous about season 3 now. I really hope they don't fuck with the legacy of TNG.

There wasn’t a single piece of scenery left after Brent Spiner finished chewing it. JFC, he’s really making up for all the time he spent as Data acting emotionless.

I think we see where this is going...

Future is saved.

Rios stays behind.

Elnor stays dead.

Agnes creates a new friendly Borg who contacted Picard in the 1st episode.

Raffi & Seven grow closer and Seven accepts herself, Borg and all.

Picard returns and admits his feelings for Laris.

Not sure about Daj/Soji/Kore/etc.... she is such a non-entity.

R259 I agree with pretty much everything you say.

Seven is very clearly being set up as the captain of the Stargazer next season and that will require Rios staying in the past. In fact, out of the original Picard cast, I think only Seven and Raffi will be in the third season. Elnor will stay dead, Agnes is the Queen of the new Borg, and Soji is an ambassador and busy doing that.

As for Laris,I don't think Picard will end up with her. There is a clip from the trailer released in January featuring a scene between them that hasn't happened yet and it doesn't seem happy (unless it's a cut scene). Also now that we know Beverly will be in season 3 (and based on some hints Patrick Stewart has dropped) I think they are going to explore the Picard/Crusher dynamic which would be awkward if he's with Laris. Also, Orla Brady was in Ireland while season three was filming.

I agree with the above poster - I never want to see Brent Spiner again.

Was there any scenery left after Spiner got done filming?

Anyone else download the season 2 soundtrack yet? I've been listening to it all day. Whatever you think of the season, the music is damn good. There are a couple musical cues that seem to be from the finale that brought a little tear to my eye.

Well tomorrow is the big ending.

Any clue when s3 airs?

Hoping we don't have to wait a year or so.

I read somewhere they might show the new episodes at the end of 2022, R264. I wouldn't doubt Paramount would change their minds if they had been planning it for late 2022.

Rios is my favorite character. Dammit.

They’re trying to have one show running constantly. SNW will run through the summer, Lower Decks will come after that, and then Prodigy.

I don’t know that for sure, just speculation based on the last few years. I’m not sure where Disco is in production right now, but with Picard being in the can, I’m sure they’d air it first.

HOLY FUCKING SHIT!!!!

THEY BROUGHT HIM BACK.

Oh God r268, I hope you’re talking about Elnor.

Nope

Shame! Elnor was too good a character to just kill off after 1 season. Worf would’ve loved having a great fighter like that as a fellow crew member.

Pretty expected ending but not without heart and that surprise cameo.

I teared up a few times.

Can't wait for s3 now.

R271 YOu haven't watched the episode yet I take it ;)

No real surprises with the ending except for Wesley showing up, which was ... something. His acting was a little clunky, though.

But it was a pretty decent finale. Picard and Q's last conversation was good, and Picard hugging Q was kind of a perfect end to their relationship.

Agree about the excellent music in the finale. The Alexander Courage theme gets me every time. The bar scene at the end using the "First Contact" main theme made that scene more emotional than it had every right to be.

This season had a strong start, but kind of lost the plot in the middle. The Agnes/Borg Queen plot was a highlight, but the Borg suddenly changing their minds about assimilation was kind of goofy. Everything with Soong, meanwhile, was horrible. I like the show overall, but I'm not unaware of its problems. I really hope it handles the "TNG" reunion well in season three.

So is Picard with Laris now or are they saving him for Beverly?

"Q made me cry" is not a sentence I thought I would ever write, let alone mean.

[quote]The bar scene at the end using the "First Contact" main theme made that scene more emotional than it had every right to be.

That piece is probably my favorite bit of ST music. No matter what they paid Jerry Goldsmith for it, they got a bargain.

While I like the characters and the actors, I find the plot simultaneously difficult to follow and turgid. Still, I am watching it.

This is not directed at anyone in particular, but I am so fucking over fanboy entitlement. No one is allowed to enjoy things for what they are, they have to hate it because it isn't exactly the thing they want it to be.

Having the same reaction reading comments about the Obi-Wan trailer.

This is not to say that I don't think there are things to criticize here. Of course there are. But people seemed to want the entire series to be TNG: II and were bound and determined to hate it since it wasn't. And now that we're getting a reunion (which I am super excited about), people are still going to complain.

[quote]No real surprises with the ending except for Wesley showing up.

I felt bad for the actor when he said he had not been contacted to return but seems like he was just covering up for a surprise appearance.

R275 I am wondering the same thing. She was about to leave but then Picard talks about second chances and it seems to be suggested that she's staying because she's deeply moved, but not actually confirmed because they don't kiss or anything. Basically JL is leaving their future up to Laris. I think the writers are leaving it vague on purpose. It wouldn't fit the message of season if Picard didn't show grow and acknowledge his openness to being with Laris now.

Orla Brady seemed to suggest on her social media back when season 2 wrapped that she's not in season 3 and I can't imagine they'd bring Beverly back and not acknowledge that relationship some how. Patrick Stewart has also hinted that over the span of season 2 and 3 Picard's romantic side is explored and he got to work with some great "Actresses" (this was before we knew the TNG cast was coming back) and that Picard's romantic life sort of comes to a head in Season 3. That could mean he and Bev get some action OR that he and Laris get married. I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

So for sure we know Rios and Jurati aren't in season 3. Elnor is alive again so I'm guessing he'll be in season 3 even if just for a cameo and same with Soji.

R275 and R281 Orla Brady (Laris/Tallinn) was interviewed as part of this week's Ready Room and she said the scene is purposely ambiguous, that just because Jean-Luc has had this huge personal shift, doesn't mean it will change things or things will work out, it's star trek not a rom-com. So we'll see what happens come season 3.

[quote] But people seemed to want the entire series to be TNG: II and were bound and determined to hate it since it wasn't.

That's a pretty facile read on the motivation of those that detest what Picard became, VOTN. I was perfectly prepared to have Picard become its own universe, really looked forward to it actually. But the universe the producers and writers came up with is so divorced from its roots as to be unrecognizable. It's as if they merely slapped old character names on a completely different franchise. Not to mention, the dozens of dropped subplots, characters, and egregiously stupid plot holes. If this series had not had the Star Trek stars, label, and budget to buoy it up , it would have been a universally-panned and forgettable one season entry on the "You Might Also Like" list of your streaming service.

Evan Evagora has confirmed he is not in season 3. Then why did they bring Elnor back to life?

I still don't get the Laris/Tallinn thing. Why does Tallinn look like Laris? What did I miss there?

So... if Soong is childless, now that his daughter is a "traveler", how does the Soong line end up with the guy who creates Data?

Wesley was REALLY clunky. That was piss-poor acting. Sorry. Should have been a mind blowing moment but he was awful. And I like him as a person.

On the whole, it almost all seemed too pat, arbitrary, and facile. SOME rewarding moments, but so many eye-rolling ones.

Crusher's scene felt like an infomercial and really out of place. I'm ready for the tng reunion. Hopefully it will not be awkward like Crusher bit and more like Riker and troi from season one.

Too many characters and stories that could have easily been left out - the Soong part in particular.

If the end of the episode is setting up season 3 then I imagine Jurati will be back.

Wil Wheaton usually rose above the material and direction as a child actor. His scene in Picard, ouch.

I don't like how we barely got to know Rios and Jurati and now they're gone.

The Picard / Q farewell was well done, even if Q's plan was something from a DL drama queen.

The queen who assimilated Picard, fought Janeway, assimilated Seven - was Jurati. Makes no sense.

The unusual transwarp conduit. If the threat is NOT the sentient AI that everyone was afraid of in season 1 that started the whole series, it's a wasted setup.

R290 Borg Queen Jurati is part of a small faction of Borg not connected to the main collective. The original Borg are still out there and all the events of TNG and Voyager still took place as usual. Remember the BQ we saw in Picard S2 was created in an alternate time line she was not the Borg Queen from FC/VOY.

[quoteThe queen who assimilated Picard, fought Janeway, assimilated Seven - was Jurati. Makes no sense.

No, we've seen in the past that other Borg have been cut off from the collective if they get a little uppity. Both on TNG and VOY showed us that.

VOY also at least implied pretty strongly that the Alice Krige Queen and the Susannah Thompson one were different entities, although they confused things by bring Krige back for the VOY finale.

Patrick Stewart is me. Make it soup #1.

What year does Picard’s family move from frozen food into wine making?

Best scene of the show, and of course, they deleted it.

R295, are you serious? You think that's the best scene in the show? It was totally deserving of being cut. Ugh. What a waste of 2 minutes.

Agree.

Ooh, Laris needs protection from big man, Picard. Thank goodness it was deleted.

LOL Laris, who was a member of the Tal Shiar, needs protection from geriatric Picard???

It had the dog.

Astonished how frail Patrick Stewart sounds. Has he been ill?

He's eighty-fucking-two years old r300.

[quote]So... if Soong is childless, now that his daughter is a "traveler", how does the Soong line end up with the guy who creates Data?

He's not dead yet, R285. He's going to have a son, Arik Soong. It's been noted (at Memory Alpha; don't recall which article) that at some point the Soongs left off creating augments (genetically improved humans) and started working on artificial life (B-4, Lore, Data, etc).

[quote]R287: Too many characters and stories that could have easily been left out - the Soong part in particular.

No, the Soong part cannot have been left out. I haven't yet tracked user accounts to see who's responsible for that stupid troll shit on this thread, but it needs to stop. Adam Soong is responsible for the coming Eugenics Movement, which results the war of the same name. No one on this thread has apparently noticed or remarked that Soong ends his time on Picard Season 2 by getting out a file (being paper, it survived his daughter's purge of his computer) labeled "Khan", his next project.

There's a lot of untapped 'Soong' material in Trek history, most or all of which is going to have Brent Spiner cast in it. Deal with it.

[quote] He's going to have a son, Arik Soong.

When is that? When he's 100? Spiner looks old AF already.

The Soong plot was unnecessary and took away from the main plot. There was no need to include it. This season wasn't about the coming Eugenics wars.

[quote]R304: The Soong plot was unnecessary and took away from the main plot. There was no need to include it. This season wasn't about the coming Eugenics wars.

Oh? The why the mention of the Eugenics Wars and showing us the file conspicuously labeled the "Khan Project"? Star Trek storyline arcs are built in layers, drawing upon lots of previously established details. None of them is an island. Insisting that it all be separate helpings on a plate, where they're not permitted to touch one another, as practiced by children with food issues, is kind of a 'you' problem.

At any rate, it's not your call what's in a given season. Don't like it? Don't watch it.

The Soong plot was not the central story. Most fans hated it. They should've stuck with the main story.

[quote]Most fans hated it.

You mean 𝑦𝑜𝑢 hated it. This season hasn't been available long enough to have anything like a consensus on what "most fans" liked or disliked. A troll brigade attempting to damage a franchise on social media using multiple sock accounts doesn't count as a legitimate constituency among fans. Attempts to stampede inculcated opinions on social media and message boards is now recognized for what it is.

Have all of Season 2 been shown? Can I binge it all together now? I was told that it was a 10 episode season and that they have all been shown.

True?

Yes, R308. The last episode dropped May 5.

Wasn't it one of the Soongs in Enterprise that shifts over to AI and androids from genetic engineering?

Also, for a show that focusing on diversity, isn't "Soong" a Chinese last name, especially in the late 1990s?

[quote]You mean 𝑦𝑜𝑢 hated it. This season hasn't been available long enough to have anything like a consensus on what "most fans" liked or disliked.

It was not popular at all, reading various things online.

[quote] A troll brigade attempting to damage a franchise on social media using multiple sock accounts doesn't count as a legitimate constituency among fans.

You really need to get a fucking life.

[quote] I haven't yet tracked user accounts to see who's responsible for that stupid troll shit on this thread, but it needs to stop.

JFC could you be any more of a fucking LOSER? Punch and delete. Bye, bitch!

r247 It seemed a long time coming.. they were throwing hints fro the beginning and seems very dykey with the representation here between emotionally manipulative addict and world weary, no nonsense lesbian, with mommy issues and a chip on shoulder

r248 Seven was an adult and more assimilated... while also being somewhat of medical marvel compared to other disconnect borg. Of course, she was consider special even by a Queen, to become her potential replacement. Any of that could have been a question of security for StarFleet

r313 good explanation of why Seven didn't make Starfleet. It makes sense. Too risky.

[quote]R312: JFC could you be any more of a fucking LOSER? Punch and delete. Bye, bitch!

What an overreaction! Sounds to me like I hit home. Okay, here goes:

R24 / R29 / R31 (here's where the attacks start) / R36 / R39 / R43 / R57 / R62 / R68 / R80 / R84 / R93 / R98 / R99 / R104 / R106 / R127 (here starts the Brent Spiner attacks, having 'me too' socks chime in) / R169 / R189 / R214 / R217 / R220 / R229 ('me too'ing for R228) / R233 / R243 / R247 / R249 / R255 / R261 (you'd already 'me too'ed R228, at 229, but you're trying to renew/multiply the attacks on Brent Spiner, so you're mentioning R228 again) / R301 / R303 / R304 / R311 / R312 / R314.

And that's just the input on this thread from one account. You've got two, perhaps three other socks running on this thread to propagate your opinions and provide 'me too' voices. And to think you tell me that *I* need to get a life (R311)! :D

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

And receipts were shown…

You killed a thread being petty, but hey, you did your research.

Lifelong Trek fan here and I finally got around to watching Season Two. On the whole, I felt it was an improvement on Season One, but still suffered form the same languid plotting and time-wasting diversions and subplots. I have no serious complaints, as it was still an enjoyable viewing experience.

Favorite moments:

(1) "No, I'm from Chile; I only work in outer space" made me laugh even though I saw it coming a mile away. Perfect delivery and super charming.

(2) Bringing back Jerry Goldsmith's "First Contact" theme in the finale. Very subtle--and I imagine many missed it--but wonderful and a great sense of warmth.

(3) Any scene with Picard and Q.

I can't help but wonder, though, what a competently-assembled two-and-a-half-hour fan edit would be like. I feel like there is a stronger, highly-focused feature length film in the material from these ten episodes that would've been an even more thrilling experience. Perhaps even better than any of the three TNG cast films.

[quote]R318: You killed a thread being petty, but hey, you did your research.

No, hon. 𝐼 didn't kill the thread - that was done by an asshole and his socks trying to dominate the thread with his opinions to the tune of probably more than two hundred of this thread's three hundred-some-odd posts. There's no call for any of that. It drives away other fans from commenting, and disinclines onlookers from watching the series (which was likely the point).

[quote](2) Bringing back Jerry Goldsmith's "First Contact" theme in the finale. Very subtle--and I imagine many missed it--but wonderful and a great sense of warmth.

I caught it, and it hit perfectly. I've always liked that music.

Voyage Home and Generations always get more attention when Trek music is played.

[quote]Generations always get more attention when Trek music is played

Dennis McCarthy's score is the absolute best thing about Generations, but even it doesn't hold a candle to either the First Contact theme or Chris Eidelman's Undiscovered Country one.

This guy does a great remix of many of the Trek scores.

I agree with VotN about Eidelman's score to Trek 6. A deeply uncharacteristic take on Trek music that worked with surprising brilliance in the film. I suspect that risky approach to a score would never be permitted by today's studio execs.

Hopefully season 3 will be better.

Hey r319.

I was searching for that snippet of First Contact music and now can't find it where I thought it was.

Do you recall where it is?

It's in the scene where they're in the 2501 Ten Forward, when Picard has everyone toast.

With everything, good and bad, about the season, the damned finale made me cry twice.

Thanks VotN.

Apparently, Pill, Briones, Cabrera, Evagora have all stated that they are not involved with Season 3.

Pity. I liked Cabrera, and without Pill, the transwarp tunnel from the finale seems like it's just a big nothing, rather than the galaxy ending event that requied getting the gang back together or one last time.

Also, if Spiner is involved, that means we're going to have another round of explaining how data is, once again, back. Spiner is simply not that great an actor to keep inserting him back into the story. He must have some damning pix of someone to keep getting written into the story.

The clip they used in the S3 teaser didn't sound like Data. It frankly sounded like the voice he used for Puck on Gargoyles back in the 90s.

[quote]Also, if Spiner is involved, that means we're going to have another round of explaining how data is, once again, back. Spiner is simply not that great an actor to keep inserting him back into the story. He must have some damning pix of someone to keep getting written into the story.

R328, you know he's not playing Data in many of these, right? 𝑅𝑖𝑔ℎ𝑡? (Of course, you were also the one who thought there's only ever been one Borg Queen, @R290.) There's several generations of Soongs in Trek history, and given the family resemblance, it makes sense to keep casting Spiner.

[quote]The unusual transwarp conduit. If the threat is NOT the sentient AI that everyone was afraid of in season 1 that started the whole series, it's a wasted setup.

Not at all. It could be heralding something new.

[quote][R328], you know he's not playing Data in many of these, right? 𝑅𝑖𝑔ℎ𝑡? (Of course, you were also the one who thought there's only ever been one Borg Queen, @[R290].) There's several generations of Soongs in Trek history, and given the family resemblance, it makes sense to keep casting Spiner.

"The Borg Queen was the name given to the entity that existed within and served as a central nexus for the Borg Collective...The Queen defined herself as: "I am the beginning, the end, the one who is many. I am the Borg." Although this suggested she was an individual within the Collective, while addressing Borg drones as "my drones", she was not an individual. The purpose of the Queen was to bring order to chaos."

Exhausting. We can play Trek trivia if you want. All the "borg queens" so far have been of the same line of "queens" in that they represent the he culmination of the same unified WE who "are the Borg." The disconnected Borg to date have not had a separate queen. The Borg Cooperative did not have a queen. So, all Borg queens, thus far, have been the "one" of the same "many." For all practical purposes, there is only one Borg queen because it's been the same collective over which the queen is the beginning and end.

As for "Data" in context, it's obvious I meant Data, B4s, Soongs, and any other iteration of a "Data" character. Yes, obviously he's played different iterations of Soong's. The point is that they've had to invent out of nothing reasons to have different Soongs and Datas using fairly silly deux ex machina explanations.

While it could just be another lapse in good storytelling, if the transwarp conduit at the end of Season 2 played a meaningful part in the story, wouldn't Queen Jurati play a meaningful role, given she's the one who detected the crisis and came with a warning to save them? Wouldn't it more sense since she's now guarding the opening? Sure, she could just do a quickie cameo and do a few lines, but after two seasons of development and the setup the ending of Picard S2 provides, it's a storytelling waste not to use the character and setup better.

This is the fundamental flaw with Disco and Picard. If you're going to do season long story arcs, those stories have to matter in a manner commensurate with the narrative time used. You don't need things wrapped up in a neat and tidy bow. But, you do need to feel that the world the story created continues and had some sort of impact, rather than returning to the status quo.

[quote]Also, if Spiner is involved, that means we're going to have another round of explaining how data is, once again, back.

And how he REALLY wants to be human but he's an android and he can't really be human and and and.....

Wash, rinse, repeat for 35 fucking years now 🥱

I'm going to miss Alison Pill and Santiago Cabrera. They were both excellent, very appealing actors and characters. And Cabrera is 🔥AF.

[quote]I'm going to miss Alison Pill and Santiago Cabrera. They were both excellent, very appealing actors and characters. And Cabrera is 🔥AF.

Agree on both counts.

Pill was not a well-developed character and Pill had little to work with the first season. But, she finished strong. You could tell Cabrera was good when he played different versions of himself as holograms in the first season. They gave him so little to work with this season.

But, both will be missed. I was never a big fan of Elnor. He wasn't well-developed in either season and clearly the writers had no idea what to do with him. He was clearly just the proverbial "cat" that Picard "saved" and served about as much purpose as a fridged woman does.

I am loving Seven and am glad that Jeri Ryan doesn't have to put up with the crap she had to during Voyager. I've never seen her be excessively bitter about her time then. She's always come across as thoughtful, unlike almost all the other cast members.

The Voyager cast were miserable much of the time and took it out on each other.

I am confused, now that I have binged 10 eps today.

Didn't Guinan meet Pickard in 1800s San Francisco when Data's severed head lay dormant for a century or two? And the Guinan of the 10 Forward Bar did not know him from a few centuries earlier?

Were those Romulans or Vulcans who tried to give the proto FBI agent a mind meld?

And aren't the Khan funding papers, dated June 7th,1996, and the character formerly known as Wesley, set-ups for Season3? Checkov's gun?

So confused.

[quote]Didn't Guinan meet Pickard in 1800s San Francisco when Data's severed head lay dormant for a century or two? And the Guinan of the 10 Forward Bar did not know him from a few centuries earlier?

There's a timey-wimey explanation - which I think is ridiculous - but will leave you to make your own conclusions. It goes something like this.

- Guinan and Picard meet "originally" in TNG: Time's Arrow as you note.

- When Q alters the timeline that creates the alternate earth where Picard is a military conquerer, the TNG timeline does not occur, so Picard never goes back in time and Data's head is never left in the cave.

- When they do a slingshot back to the 1990s, they do so from a point AFTER the changed timeline, so the events of the "original" timeline still have not occurred.

- So, Guinan and Picard do not meet in the late 1800s San Francisco and their first meeting would be in 10 Forward in the 1990s.

Of course, given that the Davidians were threatening all mankind by consuming human energy in the past with the ovidian cane and would have been left unchecked if Picard et al. had not gone back to stop them, it's questionable whether there would have been any humans left by the 1990s, even if the rest of the timeline was altered.

You are correct, it is a timey-wimy, wibbly-wobbly, explanation.

Thanks for the...stuff.

Some images of the Stargazer. The ship looks pretty cool. Clearly, they gonna use it for S3 as well. Looks way too elaborate to just be used for a couple scenes in two S2 episodes. Maybe they alter it slightly and call it a retrofitted 1701-E.

[quote]Some images of the Stargazer. The ship looks pretty cool.

Those look more like pix from Star Trek Online...

I was not a fan of the original Stargazer constellation class ship, but this version is nice.

While I still despise the pizza cutter Disco and the Klingon ships, the FED ships from Disco are nice - Shenzhou, Gargarin, Discoprise, Stargazer, and even the Zheng He.

I am also a fan of the revised interiors. Here's one area where I complete disagree with the fanboys and their slavish adherence to canon. I prefer to updated interiors, especially on Enterpise which still has notes from the original but reflects what a better budget and modern effets would create.