Are parents too permissive nowadays?

Yes. My parents didn't want to be my friend like today's parents. Also if we got in trouble at school my parents would take the teacher's side. My friend is a teacher and she said she gets threats from the parents protecting their little brats.

Liberalism is about being subversive. Kids are taught to defy parents and authority in general.

Conservatism is about being traditional, which means respecting elders, teachers, police, etc.

Parents used to be grown-ups. Today, they are more infantile than their children! They play the same video games, go to the same superhero movies, and feel absolutely entitled in every situation...

One need only take a quick look around the neighborhood, social media, or ask extended family. The answer is obvious. No one has told her/his children “No” for a very long time. We are now reaping the benefits of this bizarre “parenting approach.” I’m a little sad I won’t live to see things swing back the other direction.

Probably. I don't know that I see the members of my generation being particularly disciplinarian. Then again, who knows? I'm sure teachers would have the best answer to this question.

We don’t have children where I live.

You complain about the homeless, but they keep children and missionaries far away.

As long as it's done with love, I say kick their asses. It's called tough love. Unchecked, kids become bad people.

As a teacher I would definitely say yes, in many cases. You can always tell the kids who were raised with love and care because they have good manners, social skills, and a sense of responsibility. Then you have the other kids whose parents can’t be bothered. These parents (at least at my school) tend to just fob their kids off with money and things. As a result you have disrespectful foul-mouthed brats that aren’t fit to be around other humans. One kid in particular stands out from a few years ago.. He was in trouble in school constantly and pulling D’s and F’s but his parents bought him an ATV for Christmas. So he tooled around that in the neighborhood yelling insults at the neighbors. But the parents never understood why he kept getting in trouble in school. 🙄 I always just think to myself they’re my problem for a year but they’re the parent’s problem forever. Not who I would want to spend my holidays with as I grow older.

R85, are you a high school teacher?

It used to be that jerk kids were the exception. Now, it's the well-behaved ones that are rare and noteworthy.

Life must be Hell for teachers, today. When I was a kid, the principle had authority to physically discipline students. THAT fear of shame was enough to keep you in line. That is if you know what shame even feels like? Narcissists can't feel much shame and that's what we are experiencing now. Two phrases that are more true than ever, "Spare the rod, spoil the child". "One bad apple spoils the whole bunch".

A generation of self infatuated, morons. Real spark plugs. I mean butt plugs.

Most definitely.

I eat old people’s excrement.

R11 Too bad kids don't strive to be Boomers or Xers. such fine perfect people you turned out to be

Yes, and still the next gen made us look good.

It’s odd to me how many people give their teenagers weed and alcohol these days. My brother was playing beer pong with a group of my nephews 16 year old friends a couple of months ago. Apparently, the kid drinks at other peoples houses too. There are zero boundaries.

That will turn out well. Later, they will blame their parents for all of their problems.

Parents are weak.

Funny. Yeah, the youth of today will live forever. Heaven doesn't want them and Hell is afraid they'll take over.

Modern parents lack the moral grounding of regular church attendance. Yes Christianity has been traumatizing in some ways to me, but at least adults acted like adults and had a sense of shame. They prefer to stare at computers, tvs, and smartphones, rather than paying attention to their own children. The younger members of gen Z has been raised by Chinese apps on an iPad, God help us all!

There are unqualified parents today that were raised by their own equally unqualified parents. On a summer day in NYC you see them walking around with their babies at fucking 2AM. Having kids doesn't end their party time, they simply take the kids along. Doomed to fail from the start - the lot to them.

There are extremes in every which direction.. but little in the way of parenting.

Out here people pride themselves on the language... Which is sheer manipulation on both parts as the children rather than polite are the sort to steal money out of your purse/pocket the moment you turn your back and the adults BEAT down their children at the drop of the hat. They grab whatever is handy and in addition to the tool, punch, hit, backhand, smack -- but they do this to the children from the earliest of ages to whenever... most of the children don't rspond to it, they become immune because of the frequency and there's no discipline involved. There parents have no shame and this happens in public, they're visibly frustrated or upset and again, at the drop ohat, most commonly to the parents frustration..so, at most, I surmise, the children learn to watch out for the parent's crazy moodswings instead. There's no sense of loyalty or honor here, just get what you can get.. it's like dealing with wild dogs running to each treat to ensure the other doesn't get it nor the attention.

but the cycle continues indefinitely.. again, hardly a wonder more of our population graces the prison system. T

Where the hell is "out here," r22?

Country song lyrics that stuck with me. "Daddy's hands were soft and kind when I was cryin. Daddy's hands were hard as steel when I'd done wrong Daddy's hands weren't always gentle, but I've come to understand. There was always love in daddy's hands."

Spock created permissive parenting.

It all went downhill after that.

R15 Sure thing, Fuckface. You've done a great job running the country into the ground

Three things are out of fashion in today’s parents: personal sacrifice, a sense of shame and the word “no.” Parents MUST have it all, especially women, who stubbornly insist on being in the workforce instead of being with the kids they shat out during their most critical years. It’s far more important to drive a baby BMW and carry a Louis Vuitton bag than it is to stay at home and raise their spawn. Because both parents work, it starts a vicious cycle: starting with callous day care workers “caring” for babies, takeout food every single night leading to fat little brats who can’t eat simple home cooked foods, latchkey kids who run amok with no supervision, getting into sex and drugs at young ages, parents feeling guilty so they indulge their brats with $1000 iphones starting in infancy, expensive cars at 16, etc.

[R15] Sure thing, Fuckface. You've done a great job running the country into the ground

R26, Blame, blame, blame. Shame, shame, shame. Oh,Junior Mine, you can blow me for $100 cash. For $175 the wife can watch.

Junior Mint

R2 is kind of slow....as in retarded.

If you need stories about the sky fairy to be "moral", then you have bigger issues than misbehaving children, r20. Many of us weren't raised in religious households, but still developed compassion and a sense of decorum.

Never, ever strike your children.

Hitting anyone is reprehensible, and hitting children is assault, which can lead to worse charges than if hitting an adult.

Both are felonies, and people who in any way, shape or form think it’s OK to hit kids, are some really fucked up and sick people.

A good parent NEVER resorts to hitting children, only shitty one’s do that.

You are right, you should never strike a child. Spanking is not the same as striking someone. A swat on the keester never hurt anyone. And everyone knows the difference.

Boy, the majority of these comments are ridiculous. r27 must not live in the real world. It is estimated that the cost of raising a child through college exceeds $1,000,000 now. Single income families are a rare as hens' teeth for that reason. It is also the reason that the population is declining now in the US. People are having fewer children, partly because of the cost. Families with one child are now the norm, rather than the exception.

It is not physical punishment that creates a well-mannered child. It is constant correction and modeling, and the discipline of withholding rewards except for perfect behavior. First the parent himself or herself must use and model beautiful manners at all times. And then the child must be reminded constantly. There was a very funny cartoon of a man wagging his finger at his child. The balloon said, "Now I'm only going to tell you this ONE MILLION times". In my experience, (and I teach children, so I have a lot of it), the parents DO correct the child for bad behavior - ONCE. However, what I find lacking is that they don't constantly reinforce whatever the correction is. They assume (quite wrongly) that the child ahs heard and absorbed the corrections the first time. Nor do they model correct and mannerly behavior themselves.

I had an insufferable student. She bad-mouthed me, sassed me, and had tantrums at her lessons. After one particularly horrible lesson at the end of the school year, where I heard her tell her mother as they were leaving my lesson that she had finally gotten me to shut up, I whipped around the corner and said, "Natalie, I think a good plan for your summer would be to learn basic manners". Then I went inside and fired off an email, firing her as a student, telling the mother that her (the mother's) lack of response to her daughter's bad mouthing me was reprehensible, and that I couldn't teach a child who did not demonstrate respect for a teacher. The response was immediate. The mother wrote back apologizing abjectly, admitting that her daughter was becoming a horrible problem at home, admitting that she, as a single mother, had never disciplined her daughter, and that she was realizing, belatedly that she had done a very poor job of parenting. She said her daughter had spent the evening sobbing. She promised to consult some experienced counselors regarding her daughter's behavior, (which she followed up on). She learned about a system of giving and withholding rewards, etc. She begged me to take her daughter back. I said that her daughter would have to write a letter of apology to me, and would need to sign a contract for me, in which she promised to behave at her lessons and to use good manners with me or be fired again as a student, with no recourse. The daughter did so and her behavior was markedly improved. I only had to raise an eyebrow when I felt she was getting out of line and she backed down. The mother later thanked me profusely for teaching her to be a better parent.

The stupid thing about the whole situation is that I'm a childless gay men, although I have a very large extended family and have been around people with children my entire life. What I told her was just basic and common sense. Children need boundaries and they need to know that there are consequences for bad behavior, but they do not need to be beaten within an inch of their lives to achieve these goals.

R32 Only an imbecile sees discipline in such black or white terms. There is a huge difference between a spanking and a beating. Thousands of years of well behaved children are a testament to judicious use of a quick swat on the bottom.

Reply 35, stated perfectly. Thank you!

[QUOTE] Boy, the majority of these comments are ridiculous. [R27] must not live in the real world. It is estimated that the cost of raising a child through college exceeds $1,000,000 now. Single income families are a rare as hens' teeth for that reason. It is also the reason that the population is declining now in the US. People are having fewer children, partly because of the cost. Families with one child are now the norm, rather than the exception.

Your stat there is bullshit and you know it. According to the USDA, the average cost of raising a child to 18 is $233,000 with each additional child costing less due to shared housing, clothing and food. So according to you, it costs $800K to go to college?? That’s utterly absurd. If you can’t afford to go to a 4 year, go to a community college or state school. No shame in that. A chunk of that figure is car insurance for teens. You can always delay your kid getting their license or car—it’s in your hands as a parent.

And even with the $233,000 estimate, there is PLENTY of government help for those who need it. I volunteer at a public high school for one of their extra-curricular activities. They aren’t allowed at all to require payment for anything. Parents can donate “fees” but it’s not mandatory and they rarely get more than 50% fiscal participation (and this is a upper middle class area).

Yes, kids are expensive, but perhaps some thought should be put into it before busting a nut in a woman.

I’m [italic]glad[/italic] I had an abortion!

There is wide disagreement on how much money it takes to raise a child. I was using the estimate from Business times, which in turn used the Wall Street Journal as its source - and this was in 2009.

Caden is just expressing himself! Why wouldn't I encourage and nourish it?

Sassing? Christ, OP, how fucking old are you

A thread full of fags who have no children critiquing people who have children. lol

We still have to live with the assholes.

R42 My taxes pay plenty for their asses, I can say what I want.

Mothers? Yes. Fathers. Not so much.

These parents are pussies.

[quote]Are parents too permissive nowadays?

This sounds like the title of a magazine article published in 1959.

Your views are dated, R42. This fag raised two little darlings.

I don’t agree with hitting children. Psychological cruelty is much more effective,

I don't think that parents or more permissive now. I think parents are too busy to parent like they wanted, meant, planned to. That's not the same thing as genuine libertinism or spoiling kids.

Parents are too distracted and too busy to parent very well.

I think the “good old days” of parenting were bullshit. So many pre-millennials came from horrible abusive childhoods with neglectful fathers and neurotic mothers and you had to pretend it wasn’t happening. There’s way too many fucked up older people I know to say that old school parenting was better than today.

I think parents are fine nowadays. I just think many parents don't really have the time to actually parent, which is a bit of a problem.

It could also be inclination. I suspect some parents weren't completely prepared for how much effort goes into a child, so they tend to not pay as much attention. Neglect, even acute forms, can be an issue.

It's nothing to do with being "permissive" or "spoiled" though.

R42 I'm sure you use the term "fags" in the most loving way possible... but I still am NOT loving your persistent use of the word. I've a sneaking suspicion you might be a frau, and if true, that would make your poor choice of words even more despicable. The context here doesn't give muxh wiggle room here either, as perhaps some other may. Perhaps think about that just for a minute the next time you think about using it on a gay forum. Might be best saved for the exclusive use around your straight friends.

R2 It sounds as if you're letting your political zeal confuse the terms permissive parenting with liberalism on the political spectrum. They're not the same. Liberals teach their children to respect elders, and follow the rules adults give them. Liberal people do not teach children to be subversive; that would be madness. Insofar as raising children, don't you believe there are traditional values that both liberals and conservatives believe in promoting? i can think of several. You seem to have quite the binary view of liberalism and conservatism.

Being of a liberal mindset politically and socially doesn't imply poor parenting skills and a lack of discipline or boundaries as you so wrongly suggest. It's sad you're conflating the two here, in some desperate attempt to sully liberals, but I suppose that's partly why we find ourselves in the mess we're presently in. People conflate, extrapolate, etc. Liberalism=BAD & Conservatism=GOOD must he how you view the world. Progressives must give you a bit of difficulty, trying to neatly categorise them I'm willing to bet. I thank you for your thought provoking post however, even if I disagree. It's given ne pause to ponder the fact that I've realise I find it hard to articulate MY liberal values, and I need to make a list of them.

Generally speaking, I see too many parents veering off to extremes in both directions. We seem to have a preponderance of Tiger Moms, Helicopter Moms, and other overbearing types who stifle independence; confidence, and self driven exploration, at the same time with children who are being overindulged, and not taught proper boundaries. We also see more home-schooling now more than ever, and that too is robbing children of the proper experiences needed to reach their full potential. It seems as if there's a lack of balance, and continuity. I'm not going to kvetch about working mums, as many need to earn. It's not always a choice, and it certainly cannot he used as an excuse to lay blame for failures in child rearing. My mum worked, and i've turned out just fine. (for the most part)

r23 Many families living at the poverty line, some below it and many just skirting above it. There's a cultural entitlement here that you're born perfect because of your 'race' and fuck yourself up by how much you assimilate. There's rampant multi-generational alcoholism and other addiction problems, health galore, untreated mental health, more churches than fast food joints and the most modern thing in town is the walmart that's been there for twenty five, thirty years. As common with other places, many grandparents end up raising their grandkids. And there's a secondary govt that frequently gets in the way of the state and fed (which can take decades to sort out; long past limitations) with millions of activists far, far, far outside of it that will support them no matter what they do. It's the life of people made into a poster child cause - not unlike feed the children.

On the other side, you have technology centers and medical programs, which are more for show, as most end up working at walmart, still. Though the tribal govt has been trying to move these more disturbed families out into the proper homes in the boonies with every incentive they can think to throw at them to keep them there but they always lurch back into the city. . . if nothing else for the hospital that is ill-equipped to handle them and ends up sending them to the city hospital that runs on a shoestring budget because of it.

There's a defeatist attitude here in general. If you're not great at something from the start, then it isn't worth trying. . . and those that do, worse yet succeed, are trying to be better than everyone else. . . because yes, insecurities run that high. So, if nothing else, they can take out their frustrations on their morbidly obese children and call it parenting.

Shut up, R54. I was responding to R42, who condemned the entire thread with that word. FWIW, I am gayer than a goose and more fabulous than you could ever hope to be. Please stop with the trollish “I’ve seen you’re other posts” bullshit. You’ve read a cookie or two, big whoop. My partner and I (25 years this month) raised two daughters. No easy task. I know from child rearing. Gays have kids. It’s not 1955.

R40 excuse you! It’s Caydynn.

I think the main issue is the nuclear family is more common than it has been before. Couples move to the city or far away from their families and there’s no one to take care of the kids. I feel like white people want to move as far as they can from their parents whereas Latino and Black are closer - there’s some exceptions like the Italians and the Greeks.

Older people usually say their neighbors helped out a lot, even being disciplined.

Everything was better in my day!

Everyone was perfect - no one had any flaws!

DLers (99% of whom don't have kids) whine about helicopter parents and then turn around and say parents are too permissive

There have been good and bad parents in every era. There was never any era where everyone was perfect and had zero flaws! Also, your own experience doesn't represent the experience of everyone

It's weird how DLers idealize the past since no one has benefitted from social progress more than gay people

[quote]I don’t agree with hitting children. Psychological cruelty is much more effective,

I generally don't either. But, I definitely got my ass beat as a kid and know that it had an affect on my behavior (I've always respected authority and my elders and was never a 'problem' child). I believe the tendency to physically discipline is cultural and remnants of slavery. The masters would whip their slaves to discipline them, and so, slaves started beating their own children to protect them from "stepping out of line" because racist Whites would brutalize them (see lynching). It was to teach submission. In other words, "I'd rather beat them in the home and have them survive the ordeal instead of having these crazy, racist, White folks beat them to death in the streets." I think spanking is ok in certain circumstances (a few taps on the bum with a slipper or your hand), but "beating" your child (the belt, or for Latinos "el cinto"), is where I draw the line; specifically with using the belt.

That can instill anger in the child leaving them prone to violent outbursts instead of learning how to effectively deal with conflict on an emotional and intellectual level.

That said, when I was 10, I once told my mother to "be quiet" when she got on me (for the 3rd or 4th time) for not cleaning my room, and she, almost on reflex, popped me in the mouth, so hard my glasses flew off and broke against the wall, while sternly demanding that I inform her "who the fuck I was talking to." I weakly shrugged and said "nobody." That scared the shit out of me. That was also the last time, until my teen years, I mouthed off to her again.

By my teen years, I was big enough and strong enough to where I could fight her. So...her being aware of this, when I did it again at 16ish she gave me a verbal warning that the next time I said something disrespectful she would, and I quote, "fight me like a bitch on the street." Knowing my mother's "hoodrat reputation" with street scuffles in her youth and young adult years (she could whoop some ass and was very heavy-handed), I decided the wise choice was to avoid such a confrontation, apologized, and never did that shit again.

She never had to get physical with me after just a few occasions in my early childhood. Verbal warnings were enough because there was a healthy fear of her instilled from just a few previous physical encounters. Hell, even just a look was enough to get me to act right. So, 1 or 2 physical encounters may be necessary for children to grow up with a healthy fear of their parents later on. As Eddie Griffin once stated in his stand-up special 'Dysfunktional Family,' "My mama whooped me out of the penitentiary." Considering the sketchy relationship between Black people and the cops, Black mothers (especially with their sons) have always been paranoid about any encounters and, thus, were more gung ho about making sure their children wouldn't put themselves in situations where an encounter would be more likely.

OP and his like-minded friends: "We used to dream about living in a corridor!"

R60, I am black and have had to explain this to my Caucasian partner. My dad, born in Mississippi in the late 1930’s, beat us with a belt for talking back or not doing what we were expected to do. It often left welts. His favorite saying was “I brought you into this world and I will take you out of it”. I believed him, and was terrified of him as a child. His father (who was a sharecropper) was even worse, and beat him with belts and switches while holding him upside down by his ankles as a child. Slavery and institutionalized racism has fucked up black families for generations.

Hitting kids just gives them the idea it’s ok to act like a violent piece of trash.

Then we wonder why those kids have problems functioning in society.

I slap my children the way I slap my Oscar hosts!

[quote] Modern parents lack the moral grounding of regular church attendance. Yes Christianity has been traumatizing in some ways to me, but at least adults acted like adults and had a sense of shame.

Totally disagree with this. As stated above, you can teach your children about right and wrong without Christianity. Sense of "shame" has been mentioned a lot. Not sure what people mean by this, but it sounds negative to me.

Can we still trip them if they run roughshod in restaurants?

I grew up with authoritarian parents, which is not great. Yes, it instills fear & you don't (hopefully) end up in prison. But it makes you second-guess all your decisions, IME. (Because only your parents had a say in the "rules" of the house. You never got to flex that decision muscle.) However, in retrospect, I'm glad my parents were actual "old people" (not literally) and didn't try to act like my friend (drinking together when I was a teen, etc.).

Parents "nowadays." IMO, they want to be "cool" and "unbothered." Parenting does involve disagreements, but you're the damn parent. Pay now or pay later. I do think Facebook and people posting photos / videos of their kids doing crazy things has fed into the cool parent thing.

OP, they probably are, but older generations have been saying this for decades. My grandma used to complain about "smart aleck" kids in the 80s, especially the ones on TV who knew more than their parents.

I'm an Xer in my 40s and when I was in my early 20s I remember hearing my friends' parents being called by their first name by neighbourhood kids while I still referred to them as Mr. and Mrs. .....

Good lord do you bitches sound old.

R52 summarized it perfectly. I don't have kids and don't know whether parents are too permissible nowadays but I don't think how many of our parents raised us is the answer. I was terrified of and hated my father - he was extremely strict and abusive- and like R52 says - my mother was a neurotic mess who pretended it wasn't happening and over relied on my brother and me for emotional support.

Did I behave at school and in public? Of course I did. I was very successful academically and I'm successful professionally. But I have huge issues with relationships now because of the way my parents related to each other and to us. And I have many friends with similar family dynamics and similar problems now.

The reality seems to be that very few people should be parents. It's a ton of work and takes so much patience and love. Should be the exception that people have children, not the rule....

God this whole thread is like listening to the Republican grandmother's association.

Parents just don't understand!

Who was it who said, "Spare the garrote, spoil the child?

Whenever the debate about spanking pops up on social media, there are always those who say, "I was spanked as a child and then I spanked my kids and they all turned out fine!" And then you look at the pictures of the kids and they are mostly all fat. So no, your kids didn't turn out fine. Overall kids who were spanked turn into adults with self esteem issues and depression. This either leads to addictions of food, drugs or alcohol and it almost always results in adults who don't trust their own instincts.

I was spanked as a child and it often bordered on beatings depending on my parents' moods. I'm not a fan of spanking and I do think it causes more harm than good but I do understand a quick swat on a butt to get a kids attention if they are acting up. It's when it goes beyond a swat to hitting with objects (my parents had a "stick" with religious sayings on it given to them from their church for the purpose of spanking us). I watched my father hit my brother so hard that the "stick" which was pretty thick, broke in half. All four of us who grew up in that home struggle with being overweight and other self esteem issues. It's not a coincidence that all of us suffer from this and it's directly related to how we were raised in a "Christian" home that allowed corporal punishment.

Children should be beaten regularly, like gongs.

Remember when moms used to be able to lose their minds and whip their kid's ass in a grocery store? Those were the days...

76 posts all to say the same thing:

[bold] G E T

O F F

M Y

L A W N

Y O U

D A M N

K I D S ! ! !

Not just permissive but more neglectful. They use television or tablets as babysitters now. Depriving their kids from interaction that is necessary for their survival. A lot of people in general lack social skills thanks to social media addiction. Those people become parents and pass those antisocial narcissistic traits down.

[quote]Not just permissive but more neglectful.

So helicopter parenting is no longer a thing?

I will leave a restaurant if there are a bunch of kids there. I refuse to spend good money to listen to some fucking brat screaming or acting feral. I always liked kids and got along beautifully with them,but in this day and age way too many are just vile. Ive itched to slap the shit out of more than a few.

Yesterday at the grocery store I ran into a married couple. They graduated high school with me in ‘82.

They had their teenage grandsons (15 and 17) with them.

I look about five years younger than my age because I moisturize my skin and stay out of the sun (and no I am not one of those people that think they look 30 years older than their actual age).

However compared to me their grandparents looked quite old. Their grandfather worked as a construction worker and their grandmother has had tanning a bed since we were in high school and she is now the color of an old catchers mitt. Both have wrinkles and age spots.

When the two teens told me they couldn’t believe I was their grandparents age I looked at their grandfather and said “Randy, you have the most well-behaved grandchildren I have ever met”

So not all teenagers have shitty parrots

The economy is such that both parents have to work, these days. Just to afford rent or mortgage, transportation, food and other essentials. Back when only dad worked (or mom worked only part-time) you could live on one income. You can't, now, and people have become used to it.

R81 here. I meant I don’t think I look 30 years younger than my age

R81 again I hate Siri. I meant parents not parrots

Datalounge is a microcosim of whats wrong with America. When was the last time any of us did anything character building?

America is a dying culture. A nation raised for generations on TV and junk food. Mental and physical. There is no resilience or originality or real community or leadership. The Internet put the final nail in the coffin.

As the last generation raised before the Internet swallowed everything we should have made it our business to ensure kids had values and valued real life more than fantasy and instead we went right ahead and joined them in the wolfs belly.

[quote]A thread full of fags who have no children critiquing people who have children. lol

Having them isn't the same as raising them well.

It's not any great accomplishment to get knocked up, squirt out a tax deduction, then plop it in front of the TV until you can send it to school for others to raise.

[quote]I think parents are fine nowadays.

You obviously don't work in education or retail.

I used to work in a store pre-covid.

One day a woman came in browsing. Her son, maybe 9 or 10. Waited by the door sulking.

After around 10 minutes she was ready to leave. He said "Jesus christ LAURA you took long enough!"

Imagine my surprise when, instead of throwing him across the street, leaving a child shaped hole in a wall... She fucking APOLOGISED to him.

One of many incidents.

People don't slap enough in my opinion.

R79 Helicopter parenting that entails keeping your kids locked up inside and in front of a screen most of the day is neglect. Humans are social creatures and child need to socialize with their parents, siblings and other people during their formative years. Staring at a screen all day can be detrimental to that. Even when TV came out, the amount of children's television was limited, so kids had to go outside or read a book for fun. Now tablets create instant gratification, so kids can't even be bored and be forced to get creative like they used to.

[quote]Remember when moms used to be able to lose their minds and whip their kid's ass in a grocery store? Those were the days...

Yeeeep...

parents have been the worst from 20 years ago till now!

R79 agree 100%

Children also build resilience though adversity and they need a certain level of responsibility and autonomy. In other countries this would be achieved though chores, errands and activities that involved doing things themselves. But Americans seem to treat their kids like their cats. Declawed, indoors and clean. But with no idea of how to survive outside.

^ sorry I meant r89

[quote]It's not any great accomplishment to [bold]get knocked up,[/bold] squirt out a tax deduction, then plop it in front of the TV until you can send it to school for others to raise.

The male contribution to the bolded portion is even more pitiful an "accomplishment" compared to the task of growing an entire human being in one's body when you really think about it.

Just sayin.'

[Quote] So helicopter parenting is no longer a thing?

NO! Not where I fucking live! It's an absolute obsession with parents here. Children, oak trees and Trader Joe's are FETISHES where I live.

It's foul and exhausting!

Thank god I bought a 2nd house to get a fucking rest from all the OCD bullshit I live around RIGHT NOW!

The insistence of people on taking children and dogs (who are basically treated as children nowadays) with them everywhere is getting annoying. There are definitely places that should just be adults and humans.

[Quote] The insistence of people on taking children and dogs (who are basically treated as children nowadays) with them everywhere is getting annoying.

"Getting?" That's been going on for at least 10-15 years now where I live.

R85 is so right. The painful irony is that most people here on DL spend FAR too much time here, just waiting for the traffic to slow so they can post again.

Before you criticize parents for using screens as babysitters and blaming them for their child's apparent lack of social skills, I suggest each one of you takes a look in the mirror.

Yes, todays kids need some hard smacks.

R98 is either a frau or a queen...or both. Get a clue, frau/queen! 🖕🖕🖕🖕🖕

Obese frau cunt at r98 has stated her boundaries.

r85, you raised your fat kids in a shitty selfish way because you're a typical American dumb ass. . Don't blame us.

R100. Maybe kids are shit. Maybe parents are to blame.

What do you think bitching about it on DL of all places is going to do about that?

[Quote] typical aging childless DL queen

Is that suppose to be a cut?

What a typical straight dumb cunt thing to say. As if children are the prize. Get back to your family size Cheetos bags and blowing you're tiny meat obese husband, fatty frau cunt. Sheeeesh!

I’m so tired of Mom, Dad, Buddy, and Sis

My husband and I made a permanent decision not to have a child recently because we don’t want to deal with other people’s kids and their parents. Also, climate change, overpopulation, the state of education (public and private), plus a few other factors, but not wanting to deal with other children and their shitty parents was the main reason why we finally settled on no. We have a good life and we’re not going to mess that up with everything a child entails, if you’re planning on being an involved parent. For some reason that’s considered selfish, but foisting feral children onto a society is admirable. If I had any internal doubts they completely disappeared reading that article on the boy in CT who was set on fire by another child. I’m opting out. I am so opting out.

The answer is always yes. It was yes back in the 60s when I was a kid, and in every decade since then. You might as well ask if the sky is blue or if grass is green.

Thank you r107.

[quote] When the two teens told me they couldn’t believe I was their grandparents age I looked at their grandfather and said “Randy, you have the most well-behaved grandchildren I have ever met” So not all teenagers have shitty parrots

Typical DL. The sign of good parenting is if the kids tell the DLer: you look younger than your age. I thought this was a joke post, but apparently it isn't a joke.

Don't ask me.

R56 I'm sorry, but you sound so "fabulous" telling me to shut up. Whether you're as gay as a goose, or as gay as Christmas, I still have the right to object to reading gay people addressed as Fags here, on a gay forum. I think I was fairly level-headed and polite in those objections as well. I was giving advice that this is NOT the place for it. Many have expressed objections to using the word as an insult or slur here. Another context may be perceived as more permissible.

I've seen it fairly frequently as of late. This isn't the same thing as "saying i've seen all your posts" either. I haven't a clue what you're going on about there with that accusation.

If you are R42, or R2, you should sign your posts when addressing me, or rather DIRECTLY telling me to shut up. If you're not either one of them, kindly stay out of my rebuttal of them.

It seems like back in the 90s (maybe?) parents started to take kids out at night. When I was a kid I had to go to bed at 7 or something like that. It was still light out in the summer. It was rare to go out at night. When I first strated going out more, at night, when I was in high school, in the mid-70s - there were NO kids out, anywhere. We used to go to an ice cream place, and it was all teens, 20's or older people. It was nice, you could talk. Movies - no kids at night. That's what kiddie matinees were for. Etc. Then around the 90s (I think) it all began to change. Went to the same old ice cream place with friends and there were kids running around, crying, climbing over the booths. It was like, 9pm. I was like, Why are kids out at 9? Then I noticed it in the malls, and the movies, and so on. It was weird to see them - why weren't they in bed? When did they sleep? Now I see kids out at midnight, sometimes, with their parents. I see older kids (11, 12) out riding their bikes or hanging out on corners at 10, 11pm.

I giggled at that too, r109. Only on DL would you see someone turning a thread about parenting into a conversation about how young and hot looking they are.

r112, Dumpster people having dumpster kids.

Their parents were raised by dumpster people. The circle just continues.

I feel for the teachers. Just watch some videos on YouTube on classrooms...and what goes on. There is no healthy fear in kids anymore....not of anyone.

Parents get so defensive over when their kid is being called out by another adult. They take it as a personal insult to them. Rather than stepping back and trying to assess why their child is getting into trouble. Too many self-absorbed people have kids and don't want to put effort into them. It's a dysfunctional cycle that probably started with the younger Boomer yuppie parenting of the 80s and 90s and Xers and Millennials raised their kids similarly though less harsh on the physical discipline and tough love that older Boomers did.

Maybe every generation feels this way. When I got into the adult working world, there was still the rule that you treated older people with a modicum of respect. You didn't have to be their friend but you treated them in a courteous manner and generally deferred to their counsel (at least to their face.) Or if you had a different idea you presented it in a thoughtful manner as an alternative, and not in a know-it-all, belittling fashion. However, there are still some great young people out there who have well-honed emotional intelligence skills.

The thing I realized is. Maturity comes down to how you are raised and experience you build. I've seen way too many immature, childish and anti-social middle-aged people in my life. I'm almost 30. I had a great single mother who tried her hardest to instill manners and discipline into me as a young boy. She gave a lot of tough love. No matter how much I begged and pleaded, she never caved in and lightened up on punishment. She took away my video games and TV when I misbehaved. Whenever I would talk back to my teachers in school, they would inform her and she would always take the teacher's side. Yes, I had some asshole teachers but she told me that I still had to respect them regardless. In a lot of ways, it made me an independent and resilient person. There are definitely still parents out there who instill discipline and morals but they are dwarfed by irresponsible and childish ones who are too lazy or preoccupied to take care of their kids' emotional needs. Childish and immature adults raised childish and immature children. And so many Boomers and Xers (no offense) are messed up in the head for whatever emotional baggage they had.

I'm happy actually many people in my generation are refusing to get married and have kids just because it's expected or because they can. Some of my peers even said "I'm still a child myself" or "I'm too messed up and the world is messed up" to have kids and honestly I consider those people mature and self-aware despite their self-deprecation.

[quote]Parents get so defensive over when their kid is being called out by another adult. They take it as a personal insult to them.

That's how my mother took it. Only...I was the one perceived as insulting her by making it seem like she wasn't acting as a proper disciplinary figure. In other words, I was embarrassing her. And, I would definitely get in trouble for it.

I was [bold]terrified[/bold] if another adult had to tell me to get it together and remember actually begging them to not tell my mother and squash it. Nope. They told her. And she went off...on [bold]me.[/bold]

I take it most kids these days have never heard the, "If you embarrass me, I will embarrass you, and wherever you show out at, that's where I'm gonna show out at" speech.

Anyone ever had their mom (or grandmother) come up to the school after receiving a phone call from the office because you were acting out to whoop you in the bathroom where all of your classmates could hear?

No one?

Just me?

M'kay.

[quote]Some of my peers even said "I'm still a child myself" or "I'm too messed up and the world is messed up" to have kids and honestly I consider those people mature and self-aware despite their self-deprecation.

Maybe it's a 90s kid/millennial thing but the "I'm still a child myself" sentiment definitely rings true for me. I can't imagine being a mother, and I'm in my 30s. I still, internally, feel the exact same way that I did in high school, I just have bills and a 401K, now. I can't see myself pregnant and "motherly," it doesn't fit my personality. I'm told by others that I'd be a good mom because of how I helped with my younger siblings (large age gaps), but...it's because of them that I couldn't see myself as a mom. They drained my patience as a teen. Seriously, lol.

I think one thing always overlooked with raising kids is that every kid is different. What works for one might not work for another, yet parenting advice always seems generalized. One kid might respond best to a time out, another with taking away privileges, another doing better with talking it out, etc.

Spanking is generally a no no because it seems wrong to physically hurt someone to get them to comply. It usually crosses the line too, being done in anger. Only time I've seen it work was with a relatives toddler and it didn't cause pain, just a tap tap on diapered butt, after multiple failed attempts stopping them from dashing into traffic areas. He was throwing fits over having to hold hands too. A couple taps from grandparent and it stopped. That was a kid too young to understand talking, or understand having things taken away. ​

I have noticed a modern weird trend of parents lacking in attention towards their kids while simultaneously helicopter parenting. The kids are attached at the hip to parents, but it's not like they're spending quality time with them either. The kids are kind of just there, all the time. My partner's sibling is like this -- annoyingly on the kid about everything (eating special diets, forced into activities, etc... Just over protective, not letting them live), all while ignoring them in other ways (distracted by tech, not engaging with the kid, being annoyed by them acting like, well, kids, and so on.)

I don't cope with the modern day thoughts that parents are their kids 'Friend'. Also kids seem to be inside so much they are hearing too much adult talk.

You will get the cops called on you if your child is outside alone. My daughter lives next door to an elementary school and my 9 year old niece was playing on the playground by herself and a neighbor called the cops on my mom. Can you imagine that happening when we were kids? We would take off on our bikes and be gone all day until supper.

^^^^ Not my daughter, I meant my sister-in-law got the cops called on her because my niece was alone

r123 and r124 oh dear I shouldn't have tried typing while making dinner. Anyway, my SIL was doing dishes and could watch my niece through the window.

I don't even think parents see kids as "friends." Friends are people you are honest with and treat like equals. A lot of parents treat their kids as emotional support animals because the kids are dependent and can't just leave. These kids grow up to resent their parents and have little respect for them. Good parents who enforce boundaries and discipline but also a lot of love tend to become friends with their adult children.

I grew up in the 60s, and pretty much everyone was disrespectful to their elders. I don’t know what the hell you guys are talking about.

Has there ever been an older generation that didn’t complain about young people?

Wasn't Rebel Without A Cause praised for being more of an honest depiction of teens. Teens who talked back, rebelled, had mental issues, had premarital sex, homosexual orientation and drank?

Catcher in the Rye and Franny and Zooey both had foulmouthed male characters who disrespected authority.

Just to elaborate on last part, I've been seeing an alarming amount of comments from parents online (just anywhere) boasting about how they never ever let their kid(s) do ____ (sleepovers, ride bikes alone, go to park with friends, etc). Not little kids either, but kids that are preteens. They see 10 yr olds more like 5 yr olds. R123 actually commented as I was writing this and sums it up perfectly.

Especially with that story about that 10 yr old recently killed... Omg are people up in arms over a 10 yr old riding a bike up the street. Calling it "neglect". That's just nuts. Wait until the kid is an adult and can't handle anything. It already started amongst college kids, ask professors. I don't think this is from a lack of physical punishment though. It's parents treating all kids as young children, keeping them attached, but not really putting in the time. Quality time is not a thing. I don't want to blame parents for all of it though. Can't afford shit anymore, so we're all just sitting online, or at work.

Is that unusual for where you live R81, for people who are only 58 to have a 17 year old grandchild?

In my world people that age have kids not much older than that, having had them in their 30s.

From today's news - the final paragraph is the kicker: A family in Connecticut says a bully put their 6-year-old boy in the hospital for the second time within months—this time with serious burns to his face. Dominick Krankall of Bridgeport was playing in the backyard of his home on Sunday when "the bully called his name and lured him over around the corner," sister Kayla Deegan tells NECN. "In a matter of seconds he came back around the corner screaming, saying 'Mommy, they lit me on fire!'" Deegan says an 8-year-old boy who lives in a unit below the family had entered a shed on the property, gaining access to gasoline and lighters.

"What he did was pour gasoline on a tennis ball, took a lighter, lit it up, and just chucked it right at my brother's face—and then ran away from him and watched him burn," she says. Dominick was rushed to a hospital with second- and third-degree burns to his face and leg. Photos show his swollen face covered in bandages. "Just watching him in pain, it's really been tough," father Aaron Krankall tells WFSB, noting his son is likely to spend a week more in the hospital. Police say they're reviewing security camera footage as they investigate "the exact cause of the burn injuries," per WABC and NECN. They only note "up to four unattended children were seen playing with gasoline and lighting objects on fire."

Laura Giacobbe, the mother of the other boy, tells WABC that "there was no bullying, whatsoever." She adds Dominick's mother, Maria Rua, was supposed to be watching the children at the time. Krankall counters that Giacobbe's son should be "put away" as he sent Dominick to the hospital with a concussion just last month. "Again, the mother refuses to admit her kid did it," Deegan tells NECN.

I think the permissiveness comes from two sources: 1. Parents being old when the child is born. They just don't have the energy to argue or discipline a child. 2. Older mothers (not all, before some numpty chimes in) infantalizing their children well into adulthood. I don't think they consciously do this, but so many parents I know have 20-something kids that can't drive, cook and have no responsibilities at all. They also do endless bullshit college courses, or part-time jobs that they are doing "while they figure things out". It's not like they're even playing in a band or traveling the world, they're just hanging around the house gaming/on social media. The mothers shield them from EVERYTHING.

One of my friends took her 17 year old of the school work experience program (2 weeks in a job setting) because "it might be too much for him". Although I have no basis for the claim, I really do think they want to keep the children at home as long as possible so the mother has something to do with her life and feels important.

R131, we have a thread about the kid that got lit on fire.

Yes, 1000%. Parents these days will get so offended if you even slightly criticize their child. When I was younger, my parents would absolutely not be offended if another parent told them I was acting up or doing something wrong. No wonder people act so entitled now.

This may be the funniest Eldergay thread ever. You all do not realize what parodies you sound like.

"Let's put a group of grumpy old gay guys in a room and let them complain about kids today!"

[R138] Well, you sure owned all the eldergays on this thread with that sassy, insightful comment!

In my day we had to walk to school in the snow.

Barefoot.

Uphill both ways!!

Kids today have it way too easy!!!

I am going to start posting this on EVERY thread that is even tangentially about children

[quote]Parents get so defensive over when their kid is being called out by another adult. They take it as a personal insult to them.

And their comeback is always, "You don't know! You don't have kids!"

To which my comeback is, "Honey, I don't have a pilot's license, either, but if I see a helicopter stuck in a pine tree I know the pilot fucked up."

R139, my response to them would be "after seeing your kids, I'm glad I don't have any."

I got that too, R139 -- and after teaching at community colleges for 5 years, I used to reply, "I don't need to have my own kids; I have other peoples'."

[quote]Especially with that story about that 10 yr old recently killed... Omg are people up in arms over a 10 yr old riding a bike up the street.

I wasn't allowed to go any further on my bike than two houses down on each side because we lived in a bad neighborhood. Bad as in...kids playing outside had been killed by drive-by shooting stray bullets, bad. This was in the 90s. So, there's a bit of nuance, there.

Permissive? I don't know, certainly inattentive... despite spending too much time with their kids.

I find the most helicopter parenting are in suburban areas. Ironic as suburbs tend to be safe due to less population density. Plus most suburbs have a lot of surveillance nowadays. The bad, sketchy areas were usually the trailer parks at the edge of town or trap houses and section 8. Very rural towns, there's more danger from workplace accidents or wild animals.

Cities were and are always more dangerous just because of the high population density and a bigger concentration of poverty and crime. But you see kids in NYC or other big cities walking around unattended, catching cabs and taking the subway. Often in groups of friends. A lot of city kids are free-range especially from Hispanic or immigrant households. A lot of upper-class people of all backgrounds in NYC with kids obviously keep them on a leash.

Overall, most children are captured and abused by parents or relatives or authority figures like coaches, priests, teachers, etc. Not complete strangers. Even in either a big city or a rural small town, sex trafficking is a thing and usually these creeps who have access to kids via their profession.

[QUOTE] Never, ever strike your children.

What about putting them in the dryer?

What I do not get is immigrants children who start bashing America, and then get an expensive degree in Queer Theory or Social Justice from a private college. Their parents sacrificed everything to get to this country and then the children complain?

[QUOTE] Whether you're as gay as a goose, or as gay as Christmas, I still have the right to object to reading gay people addressed as Fags here, on a gay forum.

Well we'll just call you gurl instead, GURL.

Matt Damon must be posting on this thread.

My ex partner put his cat in the dryer and turned it on once. He was drunk and thought it was funny.

My parents made painful mistakes with their children.

But overall, they were good parents.

We weren't their peer, nor did we wish to be. We knew, and they knew, that we didn't know a goddamn thing about the world and how it worked, and that's exactly why they took the time to instill boundaries and discipline in us.

My mother used to say, "Children crave discipline".

I didn't know what she meant by that. Then one day I realized that it meant, to a child, who doesn't know a thing about why the world is as it is, instinctively, they gain a sense of security when an adult cares enough to set structure, regularity and boundaries.

My parents never, in front of their children, undermined the authority of a teacher.

Instead, they reinforced the authority of our teacher, by, if we acted up at school, coming to school, and, in front of us, telling our teacher that if we misbehaved, they were to correct us how they saw fit, and, we would be punished at home, too.

I always marvel when I hear parents say, "my child is a picky eater, they won't eat that."

Holy crap, I don't remember my parents offering that as an option. My parents wouldn't have dreamed of "negotiating" with us about what they put on the table. We ate it or we didn't eat.

At a mixed children and adult party, my parents didn't allow us to presume we could engage in adult conversation with adults at a party. We were marched to the door and told to stay outside with our cousins and to stay there.

A couple of years ago, I was at Lambeau Field in the Packers Pro Shop. A little girl, right in front of her father, tugged at and grabbed of a bunch of socks from a hangar and threw them around the floor. Her father said to her, in the most docile, cowardly way, "Oh, now look what you've done. stop that". She didn't. She had her grown father cowed.

Holy shit. I was flabbergasted. First of all, my parents rarely took their children into a store and when they did, especially at Christmas time, the law was laid down to us and they. meant. business. and we knew that.

That's old-school parenting, and, imho, the better parenting.

My sister's kid has been absent for over fifty percent of the school year because he keeps getting "sick". I remember "back in the day" in the 90's lol, that I would have been expelled at that point.

[quote] My ex partner put his cat in the dryer and turned it on once. He was drunk and thought it was funny.

Glad that's an "ex." Sounds like a psychopath.

R150 What's all this stuff in this thread about never questioning teachers? Some teachers are abusive, some are idiots, kids should let their parents know, and parents should be vigilant about who they leave their children with all day. Kids are not always in the wrong, teachers can be in the wrong and should be called out. Kids should be able to go to their parents for support against bad teachers.

"D'you wanna 'nother whippin' with that car aerial?"

Kids are dumb.

[quote] "I see no hope for the future of our people if they are dependent on frivolous youth of today, for certainly all youth are reckless beyond words... When I was young, we were taught to be discreet and respectful of elders, but the present youth are exceedingly wise [disrespectful] and impatient of restraint"

Teachers are MOSTLY dumb these days. At least in suburban areas. They are dumb little wannabe princesses who are terribly annoyed / shocked they have to work for a living.

They’d rather be pumping out kids like the PTA skanks who managed to snare slightly more successful blue collar dolts in high school.,

[quote]Florida Woman Arrested For Placing Child In Dryer And Starting Machine

I always brace myself whenever a headline begins with "Florida man . . . " or "Florida woman . . . "

It seems many go to the extreme. They either barely notice the kid exists or they think the kid is a saint. I don't see a lot of sensible mediums in parents these days.

Shitbra would sort them out.

[quote]Teachers are MOSTLY dumb these days.

You get what you pay for.

R154 “it’s right over there in that closet, don’t ferget!”

^Chicklet.

I loathe autocorrect

[Bold] OMFG!!!!!!!!!!! The thread is infested with obese frau and oaf nonsense bullshit!

Especially the last 24 hours.

WOW! the DL is now the equivalent of ivillage or QVC message boards!

R164 is a frau, obviously. Overreacting and emoting. What a twat.

R31 Morals are more than just compassion and politeness. Religion is more than just teaching morals, it's more than "a big man in the sky". It's about tradition, ritual, having a sense of community, identity and support. Many people are liberal, but only in the political rather than intellectual sense. Reading the Bible and discussing the verses and lessons from God is the closest many kids get to meditation and critical thinking before college. Every great civilization had some sort of religious/spiritual tradition, even if you don't believe we have spirits or souls inside of ourselves, thinking as if we do can unlock a desire to further seek wisdom. Religion has problems as well that aren't pretty, but there is some sort of moral and spiritual bankruptcy that has been spreading like crazy in this country. People are more shameless, and we are pressured to accept everything. Culture is more and more homogenized to the point where everything feels the same no matter which side of the country you're in.

Bullshit, r166. Religion is a big part of the problems in this country. Look at the idiots protesting the vaccine and masks and screaming for Trump...all of them claiming to be "Christians" but not giving two fucks about their neighbors and if they get sick by them. Reading verses and lessons "from God" means nothing because you didn't specify which god and most Christians and other religions do not follow the tenets of the religion they claim to be. And mediation isn't at all like reading religious texts. Meditation is not even like prayer. It's about mindfulness...something that is SORELY lacking in American society but try to teach anything close to mindful mediation in school and you'll get the religious looneys protesting it.

Religion is a big part of why this country is suffering now. All you have to do is go on Sorry Anti Vaxxer.com and read all the shit posts from good "Christians" who posted against the vaccine, calling it the mark of the beast, berating Faucci and Bill Gates and whoever else has actually tried to help people in more "Christian" ways than any of the Trumpers claiming the Christian God as their own while infecting and dying en masse from a virus that can be made less deadly by a simple shot.

" FOR THE LOVE OF GOD WOULD A FRAU PLEASE SHIT IN MY MOUTH!"

R167, not R166, but if these people didn't have religion as an excuse, they'd be using something else in its place. They need something to cling to since they have nothing else going on in their lives.

R167 There is a big difference between theology and ideology. There are plenty of religious people and Christians who weren't overly paranoid about the vaccine. Again, I don't think religions role in society is perfect, but completely striping it out causes issues. It creates a void in society that WILL be replaced by something else. Whether that's corporatism, fascism, eco fanaticism, etc.

Exactly R169. R167, There is a difference between theology and ideology. There were many Christians and religious people who were not overly paranoid about the vaccine. Religion plays a role in society, and removing it leaves a void that WILL get filled with something else. Whether it's corporatism, fascism, or eco-fanaticism. I'm not religious, I haven't really believed in anything (spiritually or religiously) since I was 16. But I still respect what religion has accomplished in human civilization, and I am curious about how it affects things.

The King of Queens (TV Series), episode Dog Shelter (2003)

Denise : Yeah, it's, um, it's really great to meet you, Mrs. Olchin. Spence is just such a wonderful guy.

Veronica Olchin : You can thank me for that. He was a little bastard as a kid, till I spanked it outta him.

Denise : Great. Thank you.

Veronica Olchin : I smacked his bottom so red, it looked like an Indian's ass.

Spence Olchin : Mom!

Veronica Olchin : Excuse me! Native American's ass.

I have friends who have made fun of their kids since they were toddles. In a fun way. So refreshing and they are now well rounded teenagers who handle everything pretty well.

You can't have character without adversity.

R174 Maybe but sometimes that 'character' is skin deep and breaks down when adversity finally hits.

Opps, sorry - I thought that said you *can* have character without adversity. lol

[quote] My mom used to say, "Children crave discipline."

I think this is true. I also think they crave structure and consistency. My cousin raised three kids with terrible problems, even though my cousin is a nice person. But she was a bad parent. I noticed it a long time ago when her kids were actually kids. She would never give them any rules or structure, then when they did something inappropriate, she would yell at them or punish them. I think she thought she was a good disciplinarian. But she was more just someone who let the kids do whatever they wanted until they got into trouble or went too far, then she'd overreact and browbeat them. The kids must have been so confused. I don't think she ever listened to them, either. Kids want to feel like you care about them enough to correct them in all the ways they need it. They also want to feel you care, and discipline shows this, as long as it's loving and reasonable.

Paul Lynde and Dick Van Dyke share their opinions in a song!

Parents today are the cuntiest of cunts!