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HBO's The Gilded Age, Thread 8

Here is the wrap-up to the first season of the show that Dataloungers love to bitch about and pick apart.

Here is where we can discuss: Gladys's future probably doing more touching little dances at debutante balls, the comparative attractiveness of the men, the improvements in Carrie Coon's and Louisa Jacobson's performances, the endless repetitiveness of the stories concerning the servants, the anachronisms and continuity errors that just cannot escape our withering comments ("The sun was somehow rising in the WEST!"), and where we will pretend we will not watch it next season when of course we all will be next year.

And why? Because of Mrs. Astor's fabulousness, Mrs. Fish's snarkiness, Morgan Spector's body, and mansions, mansions, mansions!

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by Anonymousreply 334June 11, 2023 8:51 PM

The link to the last thread.

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by Anonymousreply 1March 24, 2022 1:39 AM

Why is it already greyed out?

by Anonymousreply 2March 24, 2022 1:44 AM

Why do the OPs of these TGA threads keep getting greyed out? I don't watch the show, nor frequent these threads, but I've noticed this keeps happening. Is there a reason?

by Anonymousreply 3March 24, 2022 1:49 AM

I'll be the first to misspell Carrie Coons!

by Anonymousreply 4March 24, 2022 1:58 AM

I did that already in previous thread.

by Anonymousreply 5March 24, 2022 2:32 AM

Oh, c'mon now! Why is this thread grayed-out already??? Where's Muriel?

by Anonymousreply 6March 24, 2022 2:32 AM

Thank you for creating a new thread.

by Anonymousreply 7March 24, 2022 4:17 AM

So is this insistence to call the actress Carrie CoonS some sort of lame DL meme that I missed?

by Anonymousreply 8March 24, 2022 11:54 AM

If we're lucky Coon won't get any award noms and we'll be able to to forget about her until the new season of this nonsense.

by Anonymousreply 9March 24, 2022 12:17 PM

[QUOTE] Whomever claimed upthread to being a friend of Clay and Eric Rosen

An “Oh, dear” from the previous thread.

by Anonymousreply 10March 24, 2022 12:25 PM

The fake French chef couldn't have been from Wichita, Kansas because that town was founded in the 1860's and he seems to be no younger than 45 at the very least. Meaning he was born in the 1830's-1840's.

It's shit like that, the lack of doing proper research, that makes this show crap and Fellowes a hack.

by Anonymousreply 11March 24, 2022 12:28 PM

r2, go into your settings and move the slide to Asbestos Eyeballs.

YOU are graying out the thread.

by Anonymousreply 12March 24, 2022 1:02 PM

That quadrille looked like the early manifestations of Equus. Maybe next season young Larry can want to be a Broadway actor and play the lead?

by Anonymousreply 13March 24, 2022 1:08 PM

I like the little moan from Bertha when the chef speaks in his actual accent!

by Anonymousreply 14March 24, 2022 1:22 PM

R4, I'll be the first scolding for a Dynasty reference.

by Anonymousreply 15March 24, 2022 2:17 PM

The grays are all part of the superior customer experience for which DL is justly famous.

Or the gray is Mrs. Astor and the thread is Bertha.

by Anonymousreply 16March 24, 2022 2:18 PM

Claybourne Elder on set with Kelli O'Hara

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by Anonymousreply 17March 24, 2022 4:24 PM

Maybe they do a little duet?

by Anonymousreply 18March 24, 2022 4:42 PM

I am intrigued by the gentleman who plays Mr. Fain, Ward Horton. I kept thinking that I had seen him before, but actually I think he suffers from comparisons to two other actors who he looks like, Eddie Redmayne (who is younger than him) and Robert Westenberg (who is much older).

Even through he is in his mid-40s, I was thinking that he had too much of a baby face to be playing one of the city leaders, and he was not matching the maturity of Kelli O'Hara who was playing his wife. If they bring him back, they need to put a mustache or a beard or some mutton chops on him, and then give him some dialogue that lets him be a character rather than just an empty vessel (albeit an empty vessel that is pleasing to look at).

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by Anonymousreply 19March 24, 2022 4:42 PM

R19 He was in the Torch Song Trilogy revival with Urie as the bisexual teacher, I wish I could say he made an impact, but beyond being the most attractive person on stage, that was it.

by Anonymousreply 20March 24, 2022 4:47 PM

Was he naked? That would be enough.

by Anonymousreply 21March 24, 2022 4:53 PM

R21 I don’t recall, but it would have been in these scenes and he seems overdressed if anything.

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by Anonymousreply 22March 24, 2022 5:00 PM

The dialogue coach for the series also worked the same job on Boardwalk Empire. I remember Howard Samuelson when he was a fledgeling actor at Williamstown.

by Anonymousreply 23March 24, 2022 5:18 PM

Where's the poster who claims he falls asleep during it yet still tunes in week after week?

by Anonymousreply 24March 24, 2022 5:24 PM

R11 is probably one of the people who obsessed over Norwegian Catholics on Mad Men

by Anonymousreply 25March 24, 2022 5:25 PM

Was someone trying to insult Boardwalk Empire earlier? Step the fuck off, that show was amazing. And the last season where they went back to the 1890s to fill in some of the backstories of the characters, stories we’d heard about throughout the series but never seen depicted, was heartbreaking and sublime.

by Anonymousreply 26March 24, 2022 6:02 PM

Boardwalk Empire was highly flawed

by Anonymousreply 27March 24, 2022 6:39 PM

Kelli O'Hara is wonderful as always. She seems to get the right tone for this show. I detest those matrons with visible plastic surgery scars like the Baranski woman who, if she gets pulled any more, will start to suck up the scenery around her.

by Anonymousreply 28March 24, 2022 7:39 PM

Some observations:

a) The storyline with the drunk French chef was ridiculous and stolen from Fawlty Towers, where it was such more believable and funny. Kurt, the gay Greek chef, was also much better played.

b) Would a great society day take the arm of a butler?

c) Luisa Jacobson is so awful that is is almost fun watching her.

d) I really like Cynthia Nixon is this role. She was very good in the last episode.

e) I am normally not into daddies but I might get weak for Morgan Spector. I want my thigh touched too.

f) The Lady Astor/Bertha scenes were poorly written but Carie Coon could pull it off.

g) Denée Benton was very good when she lost her composure.

by Anonymousreply 29March 24, 2022 9:03 PM

and h) why did they not use original music for the ballroom scenes? The quadrille and waltzes were lame.

by Anonymousreply 30March 24, 2022 9:05 PM

If they weren't original, wouldn't they have been the actual waltzes and quadrille of the day? how can you complain then?

That's pretty petty as far as carping goes.

by Anonymousreply 31March 24, 2022 9:31 PM

So, both Gilded Age and And Just Like That are both renewed. I assume Gilded will film first this summer, then the other in the Fall. Which would mean a Spring season for AJLT?

by Anonymousreply 32March 24, 2022 9:35 PM

What I meant R31 is that they should have used Strauss or Offenbach etc. for the music. The waltzes were weak.

by Anonymousreply 33March 24, 2022 9:37 PM

Coon is still pretty awful and the writing is only part of it. She's only good when frustrated/angry. You need more than for people to enjoy hating her or to root for her to be successful. I still think a deranged Mrs. Morris (or maybe that fired ladies maid) should kill her in cold blood so that the story line could move to someone more interesting.

by Anonymousreply 34March 24, 2022 9:58 PM

The ratings for the finale were the series's all-time high, up more than 50% from the premiere, with 1.6 million viewers.

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by Anonymousreply 35March 24, 2022 10:02 PM

A crowd always gathers to watch a train wreck.

by Anonymousreply 36March 24, 2022 10:12 PM

What was the point of a bustle? You could set a champagne flute on Peggy's at the photo at r35 and it would stay there.

by Anonymousreply 37March 24, 2022 10:12 PM

When a women was wearing a bustle, you could never tell how big and fat her butt really was.

by Anonymousreply 38March 24, 2022 10:17 PM

Those who say Morgan Spector isn't acting like a JR Ewing...well, most of those in real life don't sneer and snarl. They talk to you calmly as they stick the knife in and get your company out from under you.

by Anonymousreply 39March 24, 2022 10:26 PM

Here's a treat.

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by Anonymousreply 40March 24, 2022 10:29 PM

I like that Cynthia Nixon plays Ada as a naive child and a pinhead. It must be intentional. Nixon is too skilled for it to be less.

by Anonymousreply 41March 24, 2022 10:44 PM

She's just sheltered and naive, not a "pinhead"

by Anonymousreply 42March 24, 2022 10:46 PM

To the poster in the previous thread who insists that the plotters against Russell DID buy on margin: You are confusing what they were SUPPOSED to do (buy along with Russell and profit from his success) with what they ultimately did (bet against him by selling short). It makes no sense to buy a stock on margin AND sell it short.

by Anonymousreply 43March 24, 2022 11:02 PM

[quote] Why do the OPs of these TGA threads keep getting greyed out? I don't watch the show, nor frequent these threads, but I've noticed this keeps happening. Is there a reason?

We have a few insane posters who maintain multiple accounts so they can flood anyone who posts on topics they don’t like, or uses phrases that annoy them, with F&Fs so they are temporarily suspended. They imagine they are Muriel’s enforcement squad. Perhaps the one who keeps asking “Why do you watch a show you hate?”

by Anonymousreply 44March 24, 2022 11:08 PM

[quote]When a women was wearing a bustle, you could never tell how big and fat her butt really was.

I would have hated that.

by Anonymousreply 45March 24, 2022 11:13 PM

I had not heard anything about Sally Richardson in years now she turns up as a producer AND director of this show.

Gotta go wiki and see what else she's been up to.

by Anonymousreply 46March 24, 2022 11:25 PM

Is Sally Richardson related to Harry Richardson?

by Anonymousreply 47March 24, 2022 11:28 PM

1) Apparently, the Scotts don't live in Weeksville or the producers chose not to be historically accurate with their depiction. Weeksville was very village like until the Brooklyn Bridge was finished and then became dense and urban with brownstones over time.The Brooklyn neighborhood depicted as their home was very urban.

2) The Fake French Chef plot is insipid but he might have really been from Wichita in the sense it was the last place he lived before he left the States to head to France. But, it does seem unlikely since it's 1882 and Wichita was founded in 1868 and the Fake French Chef is 40 or so.

by Anonymousreply 48March 24, 2022 11:39 PM

People gushing over Baranski's performance crack me up.

It's the SAME performance she usually gives. (And, I say this as someone who enjoys her but she doesn't really have a big range.)

You all fan out over her because Uncle Julian is giving her the Dame Maggie treatement by giving her all the bitchy lines. It makes up for the uneven nature of the character and the bad writing.

by Anonymousreply 49March 24, 2022 11:44 PM

The Bertha/Mrs. Astor scenes were devoid of any power.

Morgan Spector is very sexy and has a great voice but I think his character would benefit from a little less sexiness and a bit more acid. He strikes me as an actor who knows his own hotness and will not play it down. That may work in the theater from 50 feet away but in close-up it registers as monotone.

by Anonymousreply 50March 24, 2022 11:54 PM

I wish they would make Russell more of a ruthless bastard but I suppose they have to walk a line with he and Bertha so we won't hate them.

by Anonymousreply 51March 24, 2022 11:58 PM

R49 probably slobbers over Jacob Elordi and Zendaya

by Anonymousreply 52March 24, 2022 11:59 PM

R52 Yes. Not being impressed by Baranski's phone it in performance must mean I'm young and prefer the acting delights of 20somethings.

by Anonymousreply 53March 25, 2022 12:03 AM

R53 doesn't know a thing about acting

by Anonymousreply 54March 25, 2022 12:14 AM

R43, it does if you plot to gut the stock by reversing the decision. I'm sorry you don't understand. Every recap explains it.

"Yes, Mr. Morris is dead. Mr. Morris, Mr. Fane, who is also revealed to be a city alderman; and their colleagues walk back from their promises to George and rescind the law for a second station in New York. By George’s own admission, he hasn’t been expecting this calculated move but is not surprised by it. The aldermen bought company shares on margin, passed the law, and made a hefty profit. Now, they have sold the shares short and canceled the law with the belief that the value will plummet. They plan to buy the shares again when the price reaches as low as it can get, making two or three times the money they had initially earned."

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by Anonymousreply 55March 25, 2022 1:24 AM

It turns out insider trading was only the beginning for Patrick Morris and his old money pals. Having passed the law allowing George to build a new train station, thereby making a profit on their shares, they’re turning around, shorting the stock, and repealing the law so his shares tank. (Quick! Someone call the SEC! J/k, they won’t be invented for another 50 years until after the 1929 stock market crash, and this is all legal!)

George is genuinely startled by this turn, proving Bertha isn’t the only one underestimating Old New York. But the man didn’t make a fortune by being a fool; he can see the next move in this chess game. Once the stock crashes and George is wiped out, the aldermen will repurchase the shares for pennies, repass the law, tripling their fortunes, and take his company out from under him. Though Patrick complained about their tactics, Mmes. Astor and Morris aren’t the only ones working to keep the new money from horning in. Their husbands are working just as hard to take down George as the women are to shun Bertha.

George tells Bertha there’s only one play here, but it’s going to take all their money to do it: secretly buy back the stock everyone is shorting to hold the value line. As those who paid attention to the STONKS story last year will remember, the shares have to crash for the short sellers to make a killing. If the stock doesn’t drop—in fact, if it goes up—they are hosed. It’s a hell of a gamble, but Bertha is all in. (George and Bertha’s genuine love and respect for each other is such a highlight of this series.) If the aldermen don’t have much invested, Morris and co. will hold out, and the Russells will eventually run out of money. The stock will crash, and George and Bertha will lose everything. But if the aldermen have gone deep, George only has to keep buying for a few days. He doesn’t have to outrun the tiger, just outrun them.

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by Anonymousreply 56March 25, 2022 1:26 AM

[quote] like the Baranski woman

Mary!

by Anonymousreply 57March 25, 2022 1:46 AM

Margin Account as Security

The reason you need to open a margin account to short sell stocks is that the practice of shorting is basically selling something you do not own. The margin requirements essentially act as a form of collateral, or security, which backs the position and reasonably ensures the shares will be returned in the future.

As the short investor, you are borrowing shares from another investor, or brokerage firm, and selling it in the market. This involves risk as you are required to return the shares at some point in the future, creating a liability (debt) for you. And it is possible for you to end up owing more money than you initially received in the short sale if the shorted security moves up by a large am

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by Anonymousreply 58March 25, 2022 1:56 AM

I thought Mr. Morris lost it all in cryptocurrency?

by Anonymousreply 59March 25, 2022 2:06 AM

R57 I'm glad you liked that. You made me piss myself laughing.

by Anonymousreply 60March 25, 2022 2:09 AM

You folks are going to REALLY like this!

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by Anonymousreply 61March 25, 2022 2:17 AM

I hate to say this, but anyone who's witnessed either a Shaw or Stratford Festival performance in Canada will recognize that Carrie Coons manner and "acting" on screen is cut from that same cloth as a lot of those longtime festival actors: Proficient but provincial.

Like a lot of those longtime ensemble members you find at Stratford/Shaw/Steppenwolf -- there's a lot of haughtiness and voice and speech technique on display but there's a "star" wattage lacking. Watch Chris Plummer opposite some of those feted veteran actors at Stratford and he wipes the floor with them.

I know this sounds harsh, but a friend said this the other night about Coons and I was like "Damn. That's EXACTLY the essence." She's not doing anything necessarily wrong, but it's all very mannered and indicated. And not in a fun way either!

by Anonymousreply 62March 25, 2022 2:18 AM

Dataloungers must have swooned with joy when Julian Fellowes finally gave full vent to his inner Richard & Esther Shapiro and had Mrs. Astor ask Mrs. Russell at the ball, "Didn't it ever worry you that I could you destroy you tomorrow? Because I could, if I chose."

I wanted him to take it even a step further and go full John Waters and have Mrs. Russell respond to Mrs. Astor, "Well, doesn't it worry you that I could have you SEIZED and FUCKED?"

by Anonymousreply 63March 25, 2022 2:52 AM

You can criticize this show all you want, but I think it is 100 times more entertaining to watch than some of those low-rent Downton Abbey knock-offs like Mercy Street. Remember that one?

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by Anonymousreply 64March 25, 2022 2:56 AM

Taissa is so hard to watch. She is horribly miscast in this role.

by Anonymousreply 65March 25, 2022 3:00 AM

I will say this, Gilded Age is way more fun to watch than the trash heap that was Downstairs Abbey.

by Anonymousreply 66March 25, 2022 6:17 AM

So, Carrie Coon is Canadian?

by Anonymousreply 67March 25, 2022 7:33 AM

Fun!

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by Anonymousreply 68March 25, 2022 9:40 AM

Nicely done article about art collecting in the Gilded Age.

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by Anonymousreply 69March 25, 2022 9:52 AM

Thanks for that R69. I enjoyed reading it.

For me, (if nothing else), this series has sparked interests in a few creative areas that have been taken for granted and/or forgotten. How can anyone not appreciate the quality and construction of the costumes/clothing in this series? I bet there are designers (maybe Ralph Lauren as an example) that are looking at their own designs and quality and doing evaluations. The historical references are quite valuable and educational. How many new people are learning about Fortune, Ida B. Wells, the Black elite, etc? I believe that this series will also help spark a renewed and/or enriched interest in historic preservation. Then we have the art... The glorious paintings and sculptures

by Anonymousreply 70March 25, 2022 10:47 AM

My suggestions for season 2:

1) Start off with a carriage accident that takes out Marianne/Jacobson.

2) Do a flashback to a grease fire that explains Baranski’s scarred face.

3) Make aunt Ada discover gay male on male sex.

by Anonymousreply 71March 25, 2022 12:21 PM

[quote]Make aunt Ada discover gay male on male sex.

As opposed to straight male on male sex?

by Anonymousreply 72March 25, 2022 12:29 PM

as opposed to gay girl on girl sex

by Anonymousreply 73March 25, 2022 12:39 PM

It would be fascinating to see Oscar caught in a scandal that outs him, particularly with regard to Ada and Agnes' reaction. And George. Always hope for George now. Or should we just call him Thigh Master going forward?

by Anonymousreply 74March 25, 2022 1:54 PM

Sorry partial retraction: it would be fascinating if it was written by almost anyone other than Uncle Julian.

by Anonymousreply 75March 25, 2022 1:55 PM

Please God, let Ada never find out about fingering one's vadge.

by Anonymousreply 76March 25, 2022 2:38 PM

Hey, she knows...

by Anonymousreply 77March 25, 2022 2:42 PM

R43 thanks. I didn't think I was explaining it correctly. Please post this information at the start of every new thread so when someone asks the question, it will be answered.

by Anonymousreply 78March 25, 2022 2:46 PM

Wouldn’t it make more sense if WE discovered gay man-on-man sex? Say, with each other? Or maybe with John Adams? But not Oscar, please.

by Anonymousreply 79March 25, 2022 2:53 PM

Well however they do it r79, I would love to have them look at that gay underworld, or maybe you can't even call it gay yet, but that whole mansex underworld of the late 19th century. They weren't Molly Houses in the U.S., but there was definitely upper glass guys going down to the seedier parts of town and having sex with the lower class guys, for money or sometimes not even that. Whatever was going on, I bet very, very few would consider themselves "gay" for doing whatever.

Obviously they can't do that if everyone's in Newport, but I'm not sure how much of next season will still be in New York.

by Anonymousreply 80March 25, 2022 2:59 PM

Boy Whores for everyone!

by Anonymousreply 81March 25, 2022 3:01 PM

Did someone say boy whores?

by Anonymousreply 82March 25, 2022 3:09 PM

Walt Whitman was picking up guys in the street in NYC even in the 1860s

by Anonymousreply 83March 25, 2022 3:20 PM

I've been reading about the Gilded Age. It is the only son of Astor and Mrs Astor who goes down on the Titanic. His pregnant wife and nurse, survive.

Supposedly, this is when the Gilded Age ended.

by Anonymousreply 84March 25, 2022 3:45 PM

R84 here. Wikipedia tells the Titanic/Astor story

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by Anonymousreply 85March 25, 2022 3:48 PM

R78, she's wrong. See R55, R56 and R58.

by Anonymousreply 86March 25, 2022 4:36 PM

And one of the Vanderbilts died on the Titanic

by Anonymousreply 87March 25, 2022 4:53 PM

^ Oops meant the Lusitania

by Anonymousreply 88March 25, 2022 5:14 PM

To the poster from the previous thread about Kelli O’Hara being spotted on the street and looking radiant, she was likely reacting to the look of smelling freshly baked cookies the poster gave off

by Anonymousreply 89March 25, 2022 5:28 PM

[quote]That's pretty petty as far as carping goes.

I think what the complaint is is that the other live music scenes real musicians are synching to real music. In the Ball scene they aren’t. It is clear to a musician that they play the instrument but aren’t playing the music from the audio track at all

by Anonymousreply 90March 25, 2022 5:31 PM

FYI: Nathan Lane Shares What Drew Him to Series "The Gilded Age" | The View

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by Anonymousreply 91March 25, 2022 6:47 PM

Samuel Ward McAllister (December 28, 1827 – January 31, 1895) was a popular arbiter of social taste in the Gilded Age of late 19th-century America. He was widely accepted as the authority as to which families could be classified as the cream of New York society (the Four Hundred). But his listings were also questioned by those excluded from them, and his own personal motives of self-aggrandisement were noted.

Born Samuel Ward McAllister to a socially prominent Savannah, Georgia, judicial family. His parents were Matthew Hall McAllister (1800–1865) and Louisa Charlotte (née Cutler) McAllister (1801–1869).[1]

Through his maternal aunt, Julia Rush Cutler, and her husband, Samuel Ward, he was a first cousin of Julia Ward Howe and Samuel Cutler Ward, the lobbyist whose first wife Emily Astor had been the daughter of William Backhouse Astor Sr. and a granddaughter of John Jacob Astor. His maternal grandparents were Benjamin Clark Cutler, Norfolk County Sheriff, and Sarah (née Mitchell) Cutler.[1]

In 1850, McAllister traveled to California with his father during the Gold Rush and became one of the partners in the law firm McAllister & Sons.[1][2]

New York Society

"Snobbish Society's Schoolmaster." Caricature of Ward McAllister as an ass telling Uncle Sam he must imitate "an English snob of the 19th century" or he "will nevah be a gentleman". Published in Judge, November 8, 1890. McAllister wrote that after his marriage in 1853, he bought a farm on Narragansett Bay, planted trees and left for a three-year journey throughout Europe's great cities and spas—Bath, Pau, Bad Nauheim, and the like—where he observed the mannerisms of other wealthy Americans and titled nobility, returning to New York with his wife and two small children 15 October 1858.[a][3][4][5] Using his wife's wealth and his own social connections, McAllister sought to become a tastemaker amongst New York's "Knickerbocracy", a collection of old merchant and landowning families who traced their lineage back to the days of colonial New Amsterdam.[6] Above all in McAllister's life was his desire for social recognition by what he termed the "Ton," i. e. the cream of society.[7]

Although purported to be an index of New York's best families, McAllister's list was suspiciously top-heavy with nouveau riche industrialists and McAllister's southern allies, seeking a new start in the nation's financial capital after the American Civil War. In his glory, McAllister referred to his patroness, Mrs. Caroline Astor (The Mrs. Astor), as his "Mystic Rose".[8] McAllister was an early summer colonist of Newport, Rhode Island, and was largely responsible for turning the simple seaside resort into a Mecca for the pleasure-seeking, status-conscious rich of the Gilded Age. His gift for party and picnic planning soon made him a society darling.[9]

Among the undesirables McAllister endeavored to exclude from the charmed circle of the Four Hundred were the many nouveau riche Midwesterners who poured into New York seeking social recognition. In 1893, McAllister wrote a column about the 1893 World's Columbian Exposition in which he urged that if Chicago society hostesses wanted to be taken seriously, they should hire French chefs and "not frappé their wine too much."[10][11] The Chicago Journal replied, "The mayor will not frappé his wine too much. He will frappé it just enough so the guests can blow the foam off the tops of the glasses without a vulgar exhibition of lung and lip power. His ham sandwiches, sinkers, and ... pigs' feet, will be triumphs of the gastronomic art."[12][13]

McAllister's downfall came when he published a book of memoirs entitled Society as I Have Found It in 1890.[14] The book, and his hunger for media attention, did little to endear him to the old guard, who valued their privacy in an era when millionaires were the equivalent of modern movie stars.[15]

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by Anonymousreply 92March 25, 2022 6:54 PM

"The Four Hundred"

McAllister coined the phrase "The Four Hundred" by declaring that there were "only 400 people in fashionable New York Society."[16] According to him, this was the number of people in New York who really mattered; the people who felt at ease in the ballrooms of high society ("If you go outside that number," he warned, "you strike people who are either not at ease in a ballroom or else make other people not at ease."). The number was popularly supposed to be the capacity of Mrs William Backhouse Astor Jr.'s ballroom.[17][18] The lavish parties were held at the Astor mansion.[19]

On February 16, 1892, McAllister named the official list of The Four Hundred in The New York Times.[20] The Four Million, the title of a book by O. Henry, was a reaction to this phrase, expressing O. Henry's opinion that every human being in New York was worthy of notice.[15]

Society of Patriarchs

In 1872, McAllister founded the "Society of Patriarchs" which was a group of 25 gentlemen from New York Society.[21] The group of 25 were "representative men of worth, respectability, and responsibility."[21] Beginning with the 1885–1886 season,[22][23] the Patriarchs threw a ball each year, known as the Patriarchs Ball, which each member was entitled to invite four ladies and five gentlemen to, thereby establishing the invitees as fit for society.[24] The first Patriarchs Ball was held at Delmonico's,[22] with the Balls, which were difficult to obtain invitations to, receiving significant press coverage.[25][26][27][28] The Patriarchs Ball inspired similar balls, including the Ihpetonga Ball, which was considered "the most important social event of the season in Brooklyn."[29]

The Society dissolved two years after McAllister's death in 1897 due to a lack of interest.[21]

Personal life

On 15 March 1853, McAllister married a Georgia born heiress who was then living in Madison, New Jersey, Sarah Taintor Gibbons (1829–1909), the daughter of William Gibbons (1794–1852) and Abigail Louisa (née Taintor) Gibbons (1791–1844).[30][31][32] Her grandfather was politician, lawyer, and steamboat owner Thomas Gibbons.[3][b] Her father built the Gibbons Mansion in Madison, New Jersey, which her brother sold to Daniel Drew after their father's death, and which Drew donated to found Drew Theological Seminary (now known as Drew University).[33]

Together, Ward and Sarah were the parents of:[1]

Louise Ward McAllister (1854–1923),[34][35] who in 1920 married A. Nelson Lewis, a linguist who owned the 600 acre "old Lewis estate" at Havre de Grace, Maryland that had been in the family since 1806.[36] She was engaged to George Barclay Ward (1845–1906)[37] at the time of his death in 1907.[38][c] Ward McAllister Jr. (1855–1908), an 1880 Harvard Law School graduate,[39][40] who became a San Francisco lawyer who served as the first Federal district judge of the Territory of Alaska,[41][42] beginning in 1884 and was responsible for the arrest of Sheldon Jackson.[43][44][45][d] Heyward Hall McAllister (1859–1925),[42] who married Janie Champion Garmany (b. 1867)[46] of Savannah in 1892.[47] In what became a minor scandal when it was made public, the couple was secretly wed first in 1884, then in 1887,[48] and lastly in 1892.[49] They later divorced[50] and he married Melanie Jeanne Renke (d. 1939),[51] who was born in France and did not speak English, in 1908.[42][e]

Death

Ward McAllister died while dining alone, and in social disgrace for his writings, at New York's Union Club, in January 1895.[15] His funeral, held on February 5, 1895, was well attended by many society figures of the day, including Chauncey Depew and Cornelius Vanderbilt II.[52] McAllister is interred at Green-Wood Cemetery in Brooklyn, New York.[53][54]

In 1907, Sarah was described as having been an invalid for 25 years.[38]

In popular culture

Ward McAllister is portrayed by Nathan Lane in the American television series The Gilded Age.

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by Anonymousreply 93March 25, 2022 6:56 PM

So explain to me the difference between Mrs. Astor rich and Bertha rich. Because Mrs. Astor (and Aurora Fane at the opera, for that matter) had some pretty serious hardware atop her head alone when she went to Bertha's hostage taking, erm, ball... and Mrs. Astor lives in a much more modest brownstone house. Did the Astors build a palace of their own in the end? I recognize the gilded age hadn't even approached cresting by 1882 (I think the 400 list was still ten years off) but I'm trying to figure who's got how much money or if the difference in wealth is meaningless in most respects.

by Anonymousreply 94March 25, 2022 9:14 PM

It's about history, R94. Old money vs new money. The old guard basically created New York along with defining what is, or what isn't acceptable. This has been created and nurtured through generations. Then think of the "Beverly Hillbillies". You have the old moneyed crowd like the Adams people who created structure and order and then you have the Beverly Hillbillies who hit the lottery and who have no idea what correct fork to use even though they can now buy heavier and even more expensive flatware.

by Anonymousreply 95March 25, 2022 9:38 PM

And that JJA's wife who survived the Titanic and married a banker named William Dick. a few years later. After she divorced him, she married an Italian boxer several years her junior and enjoyed that dick for a few years until she divorced him.

by Anonymousreply 96March 25, 2022 9:45 PM

I get that, but thank you, R95. What I meant was what is the difference between the family fortunes of the Astors and the Russells? In size. Is Mrs. Astor just living with dignified restraint? I was pretty sure she built a palace in the end too. I'm just trying to figure out the disparity between the wealthy.

by Anonymousreply 97March 25, 2022 9:45 PM

Answered my own question... it seems to be more a question of style rather than affordability. Around 1894 The Mrs. Astor build a Bertha of her own at 65th and 5th, north of where the Russells home would have been situated.

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by Anonymousreply 98March 25, 2022 9:48 PM

Bertha needs to make it happen

by Anonymousreply 99March 25, 2022 10:53 PM

Found this link to a very amusing recap, in the subreddit for The Gilded Age.

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by Anonymousreply 100March 25, 2022 11:50 PM

The subreddit is so light hearted! This cracked me up:

I don't get why George and Bertha have separate bedrooms. I mean, I do, I guess, but...

If I were in Bertha's position, tho, any time he got within arm's length while I was in bed, I'd pull him down on top of me by that beard and wouldn't let him out until he was so dehydrated that he didn't recognize he own reflection in the looking glass.

by Anonymousreply 101March 25, 2022 11:52 PM

Separate bedrooms isn't a rarity. Somebody snores; the beds too small for two; or, you just need some private space for your own thoughts! I always like the Calvin and Kelly Klein model... SEPARATE APARTMENTS!

by Anonymousreply 102March 26, 2022 12:04 AM

It's totally normal for a husband and wife to have separate bedrooms

by Anonymousreply 103March 26, 2022 12:16 AM

BERTHA RUSSELL SAFE; MRS ASTOR MAYBE

by Anonymousreply 104March 26, 2022 12:30 AM

What's amusing is the fact that the Astors weren't especially THAT old with their money. Old John Jacob didn't really hit it big until about 1800 and then he was seen as a bit of an upstart until he got so rich and owned so much of Manhattan they had to pay attention to him.

Mrs. Astor was a snoot because of who SHE was...she was a Schermerhorn and a Van Courtlandt, two super old and super snobby NYC names.

The show is odd because their fictional characters are based on real people that, in some cases, are actual characters in the show. Agnes is obviously based on Mrs. Astor. Mr. Russell is based a lot on Jay Gould while Mrs. Russell is mostly Alva Vanderbilt.

by Anonymousreply 105March 26, 2022 8:19 AM

R98 Mrs. Astor didn't really want to move. She got into a family fight with another Astor (a nephew) who felt HIS wife should be THE Mrs. Astor. Nephew tore down his family home to put up a hotel, the Waldorf immediately next door to his aunt's house so they were surrounded by noise, more traffic and overshadowed by the tall building.

Mrs. Astor and her son then decided to retaliate so they began building their new homes Uptown, and tore down the original house and put up a competiting hotel, the Astoria next door to the Waldorf. Eventually, they all made up, mostly, and the hotels got joined together to become the Waldorf-Astoria (which eventually all came down to build the Empire State Building).

by Anonymousreply 106March 26, 2022 8:25 AM

[quote] It's totally normal for a husband and wife to have separate bedrooms

It's the ONLY way, darling.

by Anonymousreply 107March 26, 2022 5:16 PM

[quote] Agnes is obviously based on Mrs. Astor.

She's clearly not, since Mrs. Astor is an actual character on the show. The two characters are not much alike: Mrs. Astor is a society leader and goes out quite a bit, while Agnes is more retiring and does not go out often. Moreover, Mrs. Astor is of primarily Dutch Knickerbocker descent (since her father was a Schermerhorn, and her maternal grandmother was a Van Courtlandt), while Agnes is of primarily British descent (her father is a fictional Brook--a British anme--and her mother is a Livingston, a genuine Scottish Kiockerbocker family).

Agnes van Rhijn is much more likely a composite character. The Van Rhijns could be like Mrs. Astor's Knickerbocker family, the Schermerhorns, or like the other great Dutch Knickerbocker families: the Van Rensselaers, the Van Courtlandts, the Rhinelanders, the Roosevelts, etc.). But as I said above, Agnes is a (fictional) Brook and a (real-life) Livingston by birth and so not Dutch.

by Anonymousreply 108March 26, 2022 7:31 PM

[quote]SHE was...she was a Schermerhorn and a Van Courtlandt,

Ach, Je! spelt het niet zo, plebs!

by Anonymousreply 109March 26, 2022 10:12 PM

On the subject of olden times beard marriages:

On 27 April 1903, he married heiress Alice Cornelia Thaw (1880–1955).[14] She was the daughter of William Thaw Sr.[15] At the wedding he extorted her parents to increase the dowry under the threat he would not go through the marriage.[16] The marriage was annulled in 1908 due to non-consummation.[17][18] As part of the divorce, all financial interests were returned to Thaw,[19][20] and she resumed using her maiden name.[21][22]

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by Anonymousreply 110March 27, 2022 2:02 AM

queen for a day

by Anonymousreply 111March 27, 2022 2:13 AM

Man, R110 , what a wild, sordid story that Marquess’s life was. It would make a great movie. Paging Jane Campion!

by Anonymousreply 112March 27, 2022 4:25 AM

[quote]At the wedding he extorted her parents to increase the dowry under the threat he would not go through the marriage

Holy crap. Seriously? Okay, Julian, that is some hardcore shit. You have got to work that in somewhere.

by Anonymousreply 113March 27, 2022 4:30 AM

[quote]I don't get why George and Bertha have separate bedrooms. I mean, I do, I guess, but...

The wealthy almost never have husbands and wives sleeping in the same bed, even today. Why would you unless you have to? You can still go into each other's bedrooms in the night and have sex whenever you want (as long as the other partner is willing), but it's much easier to sleep if you have separate beds, plus you don't have to deal with the other person snoring or farting or getting up in the middle of the night.

by Anonymousreply 114March 27, 2022 5:31 AM

[quote]You can still go into each other's bedrooms in the night and have sex whenever you want (as long as the other partner is willing)

Or not...

by Anonymousreply 115March 27, 2022 10:34 AM

Back in the old days, marital sex amongst the nobility was only for siring heirs. The rest of the time the husband slept somewhere else actually sleeping or having fun with his mistresses while the wife supposedly was in her own bed growing a child in her womb. For eons, marital sex amongst the rich and powerful was considered a duty and obligation, not something you did for fun. But that was also the time when noblemen and ladies didn't marry for love but to accumulate power, wealth and territory for themselves and their respected families.

by Anonymousreply 116March 27, 2022 11:29 AM

I loved the scene of Marian, Ada, and Agnes swanning across the dirt street in their ballgowns, with piles of horse shit clearly visible.

There are cement sidewalks—when did they start to pave the streets?

by Anonymousreply 117March 27, 2022 12:16 PM

Never mind, found it myself!

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by Anonymousreply 118March 27, 2022 12:20 PM

yeah, they never would have swarmed across like that

by Anonymousreply 119March 27, 2022 12:36 PM

R116 explains the nature of the marriages well. Personally I'd miss the conversations in bed in the dark.

by Anonymousreply 120March 27, 2022 12:42 PM

It was interesting Fellowes made Bertha and George apparently a loving, committed true partnership but she sleeps alone anyway, when he made such a show of Robert and Cora being a love match and sharing a bedroom and Mary and Matthew did the same. Though I suspect in Mary's case it was easier for her to wield her death vagina on a moment's notice.

by Anonymousreply 121March 27, 2022 12:44 PM

Is it just me or does the road between the houses look too narrow then what the street actually is in real life?

by Anonymousreply 122March 27, 2022 12:45 PM

Agnes, Ada and Marian would have taken a carriage to the Russell's, even if it was just across the street.

by Anonymousreply 123March 27, 2022 1:23 PM

Right? And footman would have attended

by Anonymousreply 124March 27, 2022 1:39 PM

Hilarious how the VanRijn’s hot servant boy Jack had to sit in the vestibule all night long just to be there to hold the door open for Marian when she came home at dawn.

by Anonymousreply 125March 27, 2022 3:17 PM

Oh I had my distractions......

by Anonymousreply 126March 27, 2022 3:23 PM

I'm liking Jack.

I rewatched the first episode last night, my perspective altered by the gradual improvements and reasonably strong finish.

The first episode isn't as bad as I thought, in fact it was much better than I remembered, but he really, really failed to explain Bertha's motivation or examine her interior life and I argue he never got any better at it. She's fascinating and she really is the central character of the show, but he spent so little time on the nuance of what she's up to. Carrie Coon has said more in interviews (not much) than the story ever did.

I still think George's line "Why not ask your sister to visit?" was an anvil. If we were allowed to mention Dynasty I wonder if Sammy Jo is coming, to disrupt or threaten Bertha's early success, but of course I don't want to upset anybody so I didn't actually mention Dynasty, just something that might have sounded like Dynasty.

I think Streeplet is being unfairly criticized. She's not that bad. There could be much worse and probably much better, too. Her voice is soft and I think they're all constrained by the dialogue and, presumably, the dialogue coaching.

I think the dialogue delivery got in the way of enjoying the story. It was quite unnatural and, given the sags in the script, it was distracting.

Fellowes owes us a better explanation of everybody's back story - there's interesting stuff there and he hints at it but he got nowhere near it during nine episodes. Funnily he did better at giving us a look at the servants' backstories than he did the rich peoples. And nobody watches shows like this for the servants.

Nixon makes more sense on the rewatch. You see more the character she was playing a building. She's quite entertaining. She knows her place in the firmament. (For me she did a bang up job because I was pissed off with her for her part in the big story failure of the season: And Just Like That. I totally forgot Miranda and Nixon's pandering.)

Missed the first time: Ada has only been living with Agnes for ten years. She moved in after Agnes was widowed. Aurora Fane is a niece through the van Rhijns. She refers to Agnes' husband as her uncle. She is also less directly related to the Brooks through the Livingstons. Also mentioned when Marian met her at the first charity meeting.

CGI has come a long way. It looks fake but the best quality fake you can see.

The show lacks little moments for most characters, little scenes that tell you who they are. Baranski got a lot. There was some nice stuff between Bertha and Larry that showed she plainly favours him. There's been nothing to explain what Coon says was Bertha's confusion as to why Gladys doesn't share her ambition. I thought the George seemed to have a sense of humour when he broke the news to Bertha about Boudin. I shake my head that after decades Fellowes couldn't produce the best planned scripts and characters of his career. Carrie Coon said when she was considering whether to sign, she was given character arc a few years into the series, so they have an idea where they're going. But Fellowes seems to be getting far by going fast.

by Anonymousreply 127March 27, 2022 4:17 PM

You see more the character she was playing a building. - You see more the character she was playing being built. Sorry, fast typing.

by Anonymousreply 128March 27, 2022 4:19 PM

[quote[Hilarious how the VanRijn’s hot servant boy Jack had to sit in the vestibule all night long just to be there to hold the door open for Marian when she came home at dawn.

Hot? He looks like The Elf on the Shelf.

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by Anonymousreply 129March 27, 2022 4:39 PM

He sort of does, but I like it

by Anonymousreply 130March 27, 2022 5:50 PM

Jack the servant boy is both cute AND sexy. His IG has some good shirtless shots, he’s got a hot body.

by Anonymousreply 131March 27, 2022 8:24 PM

He's kinda goofy looking but it's kinda hot. I agree, there is a lot of Keebler Elf going on.

by Anonymousreply 132March 27, 2022 9:31 PM

This was posted on YT today-an episode of the 1976 PBS miniseries The Adams Chronicles which is set around the time of The Gilded Age. Paul Hecht plays Jay Gould, the obvious model for George Russell. No sign of John Adams here, though-the real one (John Quincy Adams’ great grandson) was, in reality, only 7 years old in 1882.

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by Anonymousreply 133March 27, 2022 9:33 PM

I like goofy

by Anonymousreply 134March 28, 2022 11:34 AM

I loved Episode 10!

Sorry, I had gotten into a weekly habit, I miss this show.

by Anonymousreply 135March 29, 2022 12:22 PM

I am binge-watching the second season of Bridgerton. But with The Gilded Age in mind, it seems a bit juvenile (storylines, character developments, performances - love the diverse casting, though). Too romance novel.

by Anonymousreply 136March 29, 2022 12:42 PM

It is fascinating to watch Bridgerton after TGA, isn’t it? On the one hand, it seems more confident in what it wants to deliver - pop, pulp, trashy fun. On the other hand, it’s somehow draggier and more boring for all its artifice. How many episodes do we really need of Anthony and Kate being prickly toward one another? Bizarrely, TGA has a more modern pace.

by Anonymousreply 137March 29, 2022 1:07 PM

To me Bridgerton looks like a live action Disney film, mashed up with the Easter sequence of Steel Magnolias. I tried, can't stand it, even for the occasional reward of Jonny Bailey's ample butt.

by Anonymousreply 138March 29, 2022 3:30 PM

I can't watch Bridgerton. I tried but it's just too badly written and juvenile.

by Anonymousreply 139March 30, 2022 8:19 AM

My Mary! confession: for some reason about once a day I rewatch that ballroom sequence where they adapted the title theme to a waltz temp. I love it and you can see all sorts of irrelevant and pointless little things that amuse. Carrie Astor has a particularly haughty turn of the head. Her Mama and Foghorn Leghorn seem to be tippy toe-ing. Oscar looks like he pulled a groin muscle (belonging to himself.) It's my own Zapruder two-step. But I love that scene and especially the adapted title music.

by Anonymousreply 140March 30, 2022 12:44 PM

FYI:

Giving to the needy was OUT OF THE QUESTION!!!

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by Anonymousreply 141March 30, 2022 3:40 PM

I couldn't resist posting this Newport property for sale.

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by Anonymousreply 142March 30, 2022 7:29 PM

^Oh! That looks cozy!

The thing that struck me about that listing is that it is being handled through VANDERBILT International Properties. What can be only looked upon as a further slap to the face of the Vanderbilt family, who are basically penniless now , is that their family name is now considered public domain and is used by others to convey/signify grandness and elegance. Meanwhile, the actual family receives not a penny in royalties for name usage.

by Anonymousreply 143March 30, 2022 7:42 PM

FYI; Ida B Wells

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by Anonymousreply 144March 30, 2022 10:34 PM

I actually noticed that the Astor woman and foghorn came close to tripping for a tiny second when they came ‘round.

by Anonymousreply 145March 31, 2022 2:14 AM

[quote] the Vanderbilt family, who are basically penniless now ,

Anderson Cooper has millions and millions of dollars.

by Anonymousreply 146March 31, 2022 4:15 AM

But Anderson is famous in his own right, he's not living off family money

by Anonymousreply 147March 31, 2022 4:18 PM

Anderson should buy back Biltmore and turn it into a big Gay spa.

by Anonymousreply 148March 31, 2022 4:23 PM

I think once Oscar fails in his bid to deprive Gladys of a sex life, even a bad one, that Mrs. Chamberlain should marry him and do a reverse King Lehr... where she makes him miserable. Or maybe they have a perfectly happy arrangement and it drives Agnes nuts. Uncle Julian isn't a good enough writer to see Gladys through the cruel fate.

by Anonymousreply 149April 2, 2022 4:43 PM

This is quite an intriguing look at how they create with special effects, especially what was and wasn’t real with the train wreck is very interesting.

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by Anonymousreply 150April 3, 2022 5:44 PM

R150, the article is totally inaccurate about the scheduling for S1. The show actually began shooting in September 2020 on a soundstage in Queens (which only has the Van Rhijn residence) and continued in Old Bethpage on Long Island where the East 61st backlot set. Further out on Long Island there is the soundstage which comtained the interior of the Russell mansion. In March they traveled to Troy and Newport for a few weeks. They then returned to Queens/Long Island before going back to Newport in mid May and they ended up wrapping S1in Troy in early July.

by Anonymousreply 151April 3, 2022 8:36 PM

Thanks, R150... the pictures alone are quite interesting.

by Anonymousreply 152April 3, 2022 8:48 PM

I just watched the video. The deceptive quality of what they can do now is just amazing to me. I did not realize how much is digitized... Fooled me. I figured some distance shots and the smoke from the chimney. I had no idea the Russell mansion was so barely there and the Edison scene was a revelation too. Thanks again, R150.

by Anonymousreply 153April 3, 2022 8:53 PM

The actress who played Bertha was 8 months pregnant by the time they finished filming the first season.

In some of those episodes, the woman was 8 months pregnant - 8 MONTHS.

How the hell did they hide it so well.

by Anonymousreply 154April 5, 2022 9:04 PM

You can tell in the scenes filmed in Newport she is very bloated.

by Anonymousreply 155April 5, 2022 9:06 PM

She looked quite thick in the red and white outfit when she got busted at Mrs. Astor's house. I think there was a lot of design trickery going on at the big ball in the last episode but I don't think she was as far along then based on the look of her. A number of posters have said they didn't shoot anywhere near sequence but more rotating by location, so she might have been three different sizes at three different times.

I knew Amanda Peet's name but not her work so I watched a bit of her on the Youtube. I cannot imagine her as Bertha after Carrie Coon striding around with that magnificent voice.

by Anonymousreply 156April 5, 2022 9:14 PM

Just discovered this thread. I loved the show while recognizing it's flawed; had my reservations at the start, then it got really good with ep 5, peaked with eps 7 and 8, but found ep 9, the finale, to be a bit of a let down. Guess I was hoping for a cliffhanger of some kind.

Jacobson got better as the show went along, but the whole story with Tom Raikes was snoozeworthy; I don't care what his reasons were for ditching Marian -- just dump the character and start developing the Marian/Larry romance already.

Similarly, I quite like Blake Ritson as Oscar, but can't stand the guy who plays John Adams. Let Oscar continue to pursue Gladys, but I'd rather Oscar's real love interest be a guy from the lower classes, to challenge Oscar on his motivations and snobbery.

None of the servants stories seemed to play out very well; I assume we all know that Jack's mother is Mrs. Chamberlain, right?

Really, for me, the star of the show is Denée Benton; is there talk of an Emmy nomination for her? She deserves one. Plus the sets and costumes.

by Anonymousreply 157April 5, 2022 9:24 PM

[quote] but I'd rather Oscar's real love interest be a guy from the lower classes, to challenge Oscar on his motivations and snobbery.

That might be very interesting, although it would also be hard to do. It would have been so difficult in those days to have an ongoing relationship that was BOTH same-sex AND across the class divide and have it have any possibility of a happy ending. That was the problem E. M. Forster set himself for "Maurice" written a full thirty years after this is set, and he couldn't even visualize how it could possibly work out.

by Anonymousreply 158April 5, 2022 9:43 PM

[quote] I think there was a lot of design trickery going on at the big ball in the last episode but I don't think she was as far along then based on the look of her.

I'm pretty sure those were not filmed when she was as far along in her pregnancy as she is in the Newport scenes. I would expect it was filmed out of sequence much earlier.

by Anonymousreply 159April 5, 2022 9:45 PM

r158: Well, given that Forster was inspired by the long term relationship between upper class Edward Carpenter and lower class George Merrill, it's possible. Besides, it's a soap opera, so they don't need to settle down for a few years.

by Anonymousreply 160April 5, 2022 9:47 PM

Oscar is so ruthlessly fixed on having more money than he's got, and not being outed, he might dabble in the lower classes (I could see a blackmail story) but he sticks to his own kind. Would be beyond out of character, in my view. What I'd like to see is the King Lehr story adapted between Oscar and Mrs. Chamberlain... except Chamberlain gives as good as what she doesn't get... maybe she could go into it knowingly, to save Oscar from ruin and with a little giggle at driving her new mother-in-law around the bend just by existing.

The guy playing Adams really lit up when he started giving Oscar a run for his Gladys money. I found his flirting really entertaining. I know he was messing with her, but he has a little charisma going on. I'd be amused to see that carry on with Oscar and John Adams the XVIIIXLCMIII both trying to get her. They're both too old anyway and I think Gladys already knows it.

I worry about Benton's character. With her off baby chasing, and no longer working for Agnes, it feels like it might be two shows in one next year. I wonder if she'll come back or go to work for George Russell or what, because they've got have the characters roughly in the orbit of one another or it's two shows.

I give them credit for dealing with prejudice/racism. They didn't let it take the focus off the purpose of the show but they didn't Lord Grantham it either.

by Anonymousreply 161April 5, 2022 9:53 PM

[quote] I worry about Benton's character. With her off baby chasing, and no longer working for Agnes, it feels like it might be two shows in one next year. I wonder if she'll come back or go to work for George Russell or what, because they've got have the characters roughly in the orbit of one another or it's two shows.

Agree 100% with this. I assume the solution will be along the lines of Peggy searching and finding the baby in the first half of the next season, then going to work -- either back with Agnes or at the Russells -- to keep her in the orbit.

Speaking of servants swapping employers, assuming Peggy goes back to employ with Agnes, that would likely mean Armstrong is out of the picture -- perhaps she can go to work for Bertha and the fired Turner can go to work for Agnes.

by Anonymousreply 162April 5, 2022 10:00 PM

R156 and R159, the ball was filmed in December when Coon was only about four months pregnant.

by Anonymousreply 163April 6, 2022 2:03 AM

I don't see Peggy returning to be the little secretary again, or working for Russell. She might return, though, as a kind of muckraker, still in the orbit but in a more outsider looking in way. If Julian could bring himself to not make everybody deep down good at heart, then she could even dig into that train crash a little more and find there was more to it than some silly bizarre scheme between Ainsley and whoever that guy was. Sorry, I don't buy that ruthless robber baron George Russell would never, egads, cut corners to increase profits.

by Anonymousreply 164April 6, 2022 2:15 AM

Another "Gilded Age" home is on the market in NYC.

The James F. D. Lanier House is on the market for $33M.

It looks like a museum inside.

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by Anonymousreply 165April 7, 2022 5:06 PM

That IG post clarified one thing I wasn't clear on: "the couple were no. 137 and 138 on Ward McAllister’s famous Four Hundred list"

I didn't know if the Four Hundred was fattened by family name or individually.

BTW I am reading the book called A Season of Splendour: The Court of Mrs. Astor in the Gilded Age (or something very close.) Mrs. Astor and her gang were primarily snobs to an extent that can't be justified, while the Berthas of the world were gaudy showoffs. Mamie Fish was not the barrel of laughs from Fellowes, she was a nasty piece of work. It's fascinating, but I can't find anybody to like. Still, it's entertaining and an easy read.

by Anonymousreply 166April 7, 2022 6:22 PM

Found this, in a UK tabloid, scalping from Deadline: "After hints that Cora's mum, Martha Levinson's family name may hold the clue to her lineage, he (Fellowes) said: “We know [her maiden name] wasn't Levinson, because we know she wasn't Jewish, her husband was."

“I think that’s interesting to explore,” he told Deadline.

I wonder if that's the sister who George very early on in the series mentioned to Bertha, who pointedly declined to extend to said sister an invitation to visit. Maybe Bertha's going to have tacky new money rivals in the family and resistant old money rivals in the ranks of society.

I'm R166, reading Season of Splendour. By my read, Fellowes cherry picks a lot of stories from Alva Vanderbilt's story, and the Vanderbilts generally, but he doesn't seem to be following the path entirely. As I read it the basis for the marriage between W.K. Vanderbilt and Alva could easily be tweaked into the basis for a marriage between Larry and Streep III, if Bertha turned her attentions to Larry rather than Gladys. But there's a ton of Alva, as noted many times, in Bertha. W.K. Vanderbilt was generally a decent sort, educated and cultured, and frustrated the Vanderbilts weren't really part of society. He married Alva in part (or whole) because while she had no money, she did have pedigree and had spent her formative years in Europe, so had that sophistication. Bertha seems to have neither family nor particular sophistication. But if she engineered the marriage new New York Larry and old New York Streeplet it would have it's basis in the actual marriage, even though Streeplet is about as far from Alva as you can get.

And the show can't hold a candle to these people in the actual Gilded Age. The parties alone were hundreds and hundreds of people. Gladys' ball was mute by comparison. HBO couldn't afford the budget to really capture exactly how they live.

by Anonymousreply 167April 12, 2022 5:04 AM

bump

by Anonymousreply 168April 12, 2022 9:37 PM

[quote]And the show can't hold a candle to these people in the actual Gilded Age. The parties alone were hundreds and hundreds of people.

Well, at least [italic]four[/italic] hundreds of people.

That's all that would fit in my ballroom in 1882.

by Anonymousreply 169April 12, 2022 10:23 PM

I am pretty sure Tom Raikes is gone, at least for now. He was not meant to be a regular character.

Peggy is absolutely coming back (she is one of the central characters of the show), but it is extremely unlikely she would work for George Russell as a secretary.

by Anonymousreply 170April 12, 2022 10:28 PM

Well, they better figure out how to bring her back into the action or they've got two shows on their hands.

by Anonymousreply 171April 12, 2022 10:29 PM

What a bizarre comment, r171.

by Anonymousreply 172April 12, 2022 10:37 PM

R170, Raikes absolutely was a regular character. Thomas Coquerel was always included in the front credits along with Baranski, Coon and Spector.

by Anonymousreply 173April 12, 2022 10:45 PM

What's bizarre about it, R172? Her storyline previously spanned her family world in Brooklyn, but brought her in to the Manhattan world through her work for Agnes. What do you reckon she's going to do in 1882? Meet Marian for lunch at Delmonico's? Without the job to anchor her into the Manhattan story she's adrift searching for her long lost baby, unless Marian pursues her from time to time with carpetbags full of used baby clothes. Not for nothing, this is a Julian Fellowes show.... he's good when he's lucky and coasting the rest of the time. Trust that settles you a bit more.

by Anonymousreply 174April 12, 2022 10:50 PM

R172 could develop skills is less judgment and more substantiation of argument.

by Anonymousreply 175April 12, 2022 10:51 PM

I'm telling ya, Peggy the Muckraker could work. Part of their world, but not in the same way the rest of them are. And yes, I hope they wrap up the boring baby story soon, although maybe she will discover some stuff in her travels regarding the Russell business practices.

(I do love the idea of Marian chasing her down the street with those raggedy ass shoes crying out that maybe the kid can use them!)

by Anonymousreply 176April 12, 2022 11:00 PM

I still like my idea for Season 2: Minnie Driver and Daniel Radcliffe as British grifters posing as a high society lady and her son. They try to sink their claws into Gladys.

by Anonymousreply 177April 13, 2022 2:19 AM

Gladys Kravitz?

by Anonymousreply 178April 13, 2022 6:26 AM

According to my crew friend first day of shooting for Season 2 is April 28th in NY. Newport shoot is May 3rd through the 20th.

by Anonymousreply 179April 14, 2022 11:02 PM

R179, give us all the details!

by Anonymousreply 180April 14, 2022 11:04 PM

More Tony winners are coming to season 2!

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by Anonymousreply 181April 15, 2022 5:03 AM

Bernie Telsey only casts guys he'd like to have fuck him. That's why the young'uns are all so pretty.

by Anonymousreply 182April 15, 2022 5:06 PM

It's just been announced Thomas Cocquerel won't be in Season 2.

by Anonymousreply 183April 15, 2022 5:13 PM

EXCLUSIVE: Julian Fellowes’s breakout HBO period drama The Gilded Age is expanding its cast in a big way for Season 2, going from 12 to 24 series regulars, and deepening the Upstairs, Downstairs feel of the show. That includes thirteen actors who recurred in Season 1 and have been promoted to series regulars: Kelli O’Hara as Aurora Fane, Donna Murphy as Mrs. Astor, Debra Monk as Armstrong, Kristine Nielsen as Mrs. Bauer, Taylor Richardson as Bridget, Ben Ahlers as Jack Trotter, Kelley Curran as Turner, Douglas Sills as Baudin aka Borden, Celia Keenan-Bolger as Mrs. Bruce, Michael Cerveris as Watson, Erin Wilhelmi as Adelheid Weber, Patrick Page as Richard Clay and Sullivan Jones as T. Thomas Fortune.

As foreshadowed in the season finale, not returning is Season 1 series regular Thomas Cocquerel who played Tom Raikes, the opportunistic young lawyer and Marian’s love interest last season.

Returning in their recurring roles for Season 2 are Audra McDonald as Dorothy Scott, Nathan Lane as Ward McAllister, John Douglas Thompson as Arthur Scott, Ashlie Atkinson as Mamie Fish, Claybourne Elder as John Adams and Ward Horton as Charles Fane.

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by Anonymousreply 184April 15, 2022 5:17 PM

Not that I care considering it was the most boring plotline in the show, but I guess we'll never find out why Tom ditched Marian.

by Anonymousreply 185April 15, 2022 5:19 PM

Glad that Raikes is gone

by Anonymousreply 186April 15, 2022 5:56 PM

I'm a little disappointed that Clayborne Elder's John Adams is not being upgraded to series regular. I want to see more of him. And by more of him, I mean all of him. I think HBO needs to produce an "extra" version of the show called "The Gilded Age: Behind Closed Doors." This alternative story line focuses on John Adams and Oscar Van Rhijn as they shift their attention away from Gladys Russell and compete to be the first to seduce her brother Larry.

by Anonymousreply 187April 15, 2022 6:54 PM

So no announcement about AKB and his big dick joining the show?

by Anonymousreply 188April 15, 2022 6:56 PM

Wow. What the fuck was the purpose of the Raikes character then? So much build up for ZERO payoff.

Again....shitty writing.

Being promoted to "regular" from "recurring" (or not) doesn't mean that any storyline will necessarily change. It's all about billing and contracts and money.

by Anonymousreply 189April 15, 2022 8:48 PM

Who is AKB?

by Anonymousreply 190April 15, 2022 8:55 PM

R190 Brother of CKB.

by Anonymousreply 191April 15, 2022 9:13 PM

AKB will be taking over the role from CKB.

by Anonymousreply 192April 15, 2022 9:44 PM

Do you have pictures of AKB's dick?

by Anonymousreply 193April 15, 2022 9:48 PM

[quote] Not that I care considering it was the most boring plotline in the show, but I guess we'll never find out why Tom ditched Marian.

It was clearly explained in the season finale: $$$.

He was in love with Marian, but she has no money, whereas the heiress Cissie Bingham, who fell in love with him, was absolutely loaded. By marrying Cissie he would be able to live as a very rich man in NYC, which he always dreamed of being; had he married Marian, they would have only had his lawyer's salary to live on (since Marian has no money of her own, and only lives well so long as she stays unmarried and lives with Aunt Agnes, who has announced she's willing all her fortune to her son Oscar).

by Anonymousreply 194April 15, 2022 9:57 PM

R194, it may have been implied, but it was never stated explicitly.

My guess is it was meant to be a minor cliffhanger, but the story and actor was so bland, they're abandoning it altogether.

by Anonymousreply 195April 15, 2022 10:24 PM

[quote] [R194], it may have been implied, but it was never stated explicitly.

You clearly weren't paying enough attention.

by Anonymousreply 196April 15, 2022 10:28 PM

Just what this show needs... a bigger cast.

Deadline says "Season 1 recurring actors who are not listed as recurring for Season 2 include some familiar characters: Jeanne Tripplehorn as Sylvia Chamberlain... Amy Forsyth as Carrie Astor..."

I cannot get enough Aurora Fane... I just find her so likeable and wry. Glad Mrs. Astor is getting a boost... there's potential there.

by Anonymousreply 197April 15, 2022 10:39 PM

Then, please, point to a line of dialogue from Tom stating that is why he's dumping Marian.

by Anonymousreply 198April 15, 2022 10:46 PM

Cousin Aurora is one of the best dressed in the entire show.

Her outfits and jewelry are gasp worthy.

She’s very likable. Glad to be seeing more of her.

by Anonymousreply 199April 15, 2022 11:25 PM

R198... in the scene in his office he tells her something like we would have no armour for the battle to come... we both know NY now... there's a life to be lived here, a good life, but two penniless strangers out town could not hope to live it..

She says about the other girl: her fortune is more than ample for both of you. He says: I don't admire myself for it.

I am not that snide asshole you're battling with, but in addition to being a pompous set of human bagpipes, in this instance the dispectic harridan is right about Raikes.

by Anonymousreply 200April 16, 2022 2:33 AM

Raikes is a spineless douche, trying to take the easy way out by not showing up when they are supposed to elope. Did he really think he could make it work with Marian (poor, but happy in love) vs. the rich heiress (rich, but longing for Marian) until the date finally came?

by Anonymousreply 201April 16, 2022 6:22 AM

The writing for Raikes was so off the wall, it made no sense whatsoever. He's supposedly in love with her, knowing that she has no money and a future with him would be impossible. But he manages to put her reputation at risk by making out with her in full view of anyone who might pass by in the hotel, and then asks her to elope with him, knowing full well that he had to marry someone else. And then he doesn't show up to elope. That's just bad writing.

by Anonymousreply 202April 16, 2022 11:48 AM

I agree, R202. I know (or, I've rather accepted) that this is a night time soap opera but I don't recall either "Dallas" or "Dynasty" being so badly written. Maybe towards the end they were, But, by that time I had pretty much stopped watching either of them.

by Anonymousreply 203April 16, 2022 12:15 PM

^I agree, 100%. I am among those who thinks Streeplet isn't as bad as many carry on. She tried her best to salvage some pathos over that damp squib ending between the two of them (which was barely an ending.) If he didn't have (a now even bigger for season two) cast of thousands he could have built Raikes up as a small town boy gone big city... torn between a good woman he loved and a rich woman (maybe even a pain in the ass) and in the end he chooses material comfort but knows he's going to pay a price anyway. I thought Fellowes barely established his motivation for showing up in New York anyway.

I guess next year he and his cash cow will have married and gone on an extended honeymoon in Europe.

R203, in their first seasons, they were at least dramas, Dynasty in particular, which had pretty entertaining dialogue. Then they get big audiences and you have to dumb them down. One thing that worked for both was the writers weren't trying to concoct storylines for thirty regular characters. I know a big part of acting is the delight of getting paid to act, but still, as an actor on a Fellowes show it must be discouraging to get your six lines of dialogue in your three scenes each week. There's not a lot of sink your teeth into on his shows.

by Anonymousreply 204April 16, 2022 12:21 PM

It's almost like Fellows was misleading the audience and then presented an underwhelming conclusion that didn't match with what the audience was expecting based on what they saw on the show previously.

by Anonymousreply 205April 16, 2022 2:01 PM

Honestly, we had a much better storyline going for Tom Raikes here in DL, with stolen railway shares and secret marriage schemes to steal the fortune Marian didn't even know she had. Tom I'm going to choose to remember you as DL Tom, you snake!

by Anonymousreply 206April 16, 2022 2:19 PM

Color us all shocked that a hack like Julian Fellowes is a terrible writer!!!!

by Anonymousreply 207April 16, 2022 11:07 PM

He's such a terrible writer than I watch every episode of all his shows!

by Anonymousreply 208April 16, 2022 11:37 PM

R208 Not really. I quickly gave up on the puerile Downtown Abbey. The Gilded Age is fun to hate on. For now.

Lots of terrible things are popular. How many "Fast and the Furious" movies are there? And, all those horrible NCIS shows on CBS or Chicago Fire/Medical/ shit shows?

Harlequin Romance novels...Taco Bell....the Trumps.....the Clintons....we could start a whole thread about "Shitty Things That Are Hugely Popular".

by Anonymousreply 209April 16, 2022 11:44 PM

R209 loves the show so he watched it every week. In order to maintain his "too cool for school" posture he'll pretend he's "hate watching" it.

by Anonymousreply 210April 16, 2022 11:50 PM

R210 Dumb people have a hard time wrapping their tiny minds around complex things like "it's so bad it's kinda good...in a badly written way that's hella fun to make fun of".

Ergo why we have 8 threads that mostly consist of bitching about all the stupid shit in this show.

And, a few nutters that think Fellowes is a good writer or Streep Jr a good actress.

by Anonymousreply 211April 16, 2022 11:54 PM

Dishonest people have to pretend they dislike certain things to appear cool. They spend tons of hours watching a show and posting about it....then pretend to hate it. Their tiny minds have to pretend they're "hate watching" the shows they love and can't get enough of

by Anonymousreply 212April 16, 2022 11:57 PM

Liars get cancer.

by Anonymousreply 213April 17, 2022 2:12 AM

R212 Yes. I'm desperate to appear "cool" on an anonymous chat board.

by Anonymousreply 214April 17, 2022 5:20 AM

212, who I have on block, seems psychiatrically defensive of this middling show, which sane people can see as both entertaining and deeply flawed.

by Anonymousreply 215April 17, 2022 12:24 PM

I actually enjoyed The Gilded Age. It doesn’t take itself as seriously as Downton and doesn’t expect us to love the wealthy characters.

Carrie Coon‘s gruff unlikeability is the biggest problem - she’s not beautiful enough nor magnetic enough nor deliciously impish enough to be a [the] main character. There’s one very good reason she would be of little interest to high society - she’s a crashing bore. Morgan Spector is not as good an actor as Coon but I can believe in the power he wields.

by Anonymousreply 216April 17, 2022 1:36 PM

Finished Season 1 of Severance and thought Britt Lower, although too young, would have made a good Bertha.

by Anonymousreply 217April 17, 2022 5:12 PM

R215 invests a lot of time in a "middling" show

BTW, I never claimed the show was perfect. But I do enjoy it.

by Anonymousreply 218April 17, 2022 5:14 PM

It's just a lavish soap opera. Hopefully, it will get better. Dallas, Dynasty, Falcon Crest, Knots Landing, and Melrose Place all got better after iffy first seasons.

by Anonymousreply 219April 17, 2022 6:32 PM

[quote]There’s one very good reason she would be of little interest to high society - she’s a crashing bore.

R217, the character and the actress grew on me over the series, but I agree that one area where Bertha is seriously underwritten is in the charm department. Why would Mrs. Astor be her friend? How did she amuse Mamie Fish (other than as an object of ridicule.) I saw one flash of something when she had the crown jewels turned into a cigarette case for Foghorn Leghorn. Her Gladys party wasn't even that good.. I've been reading about the gilded age and their parties were legendary but Bertha's square dance was nothing special (granted, it would blow the budget to do a real gilded age party but still... this feels more like the Business Class Age. )

Bertha's thirsty... and she really doesn't care who knows it... but she doesn't really have a lot to offer. I'm really glad they've turned most of the recurring into regulars next year... it will make the writing so much better.

by Anonymousreply 220April 17, 2022 7:39 PM

I wonder if part of the problem is the stilted delivery they are required to use. It's hard to sound engaging when you're trying to hold a fart too.

by Anonymousreply 221April 17, 2022 7:41 PM

Crew friend told me big gala sequence shoots in Newport next month.

by Anonymousreply 222April 17, 2022 8:05 PM

George Russell always seems so camp to me.

by Anonymousreply 223April 19, 2022 1:07 AM

[quote] [R217], the character and the actress grew on me over the series, but I agree that one area where Bertha is seriously underwritten is in the charm department. Why would Mrs. Astor be her friend? How did she amuse Mamie Fish (other than as an object of ridicule.)

That's kind of the point, isn't it? Bertha does not need charm because she's so rich.

The real-life model for Bertha, Alva Vanderbilt, was neither beautiful nor charming nor witty: but she was incredibly aggressive and driven, and she felt by dint of her sheer wealth Knickerbocker society should pay attention to her, and by God, she willed it to happen.

Only a very few people in that society were prized for being witty or charming. Both Mamie Fish and Ward McAllister were witty and funny, but they HAD to be if they wanted to stand out in that crowd: they were not as rich as many of the other people in their society.

Mrs. Astor was herself neither witty nor beautiful. What she was was incredibly well-born, being a daughter of Abraham Schermerhorn and related to all the most famous families in NYC. She had the position she did because she had both that and money, since she married one of the wealthiest men in NYC at the time.

by Anonymousreply 224April 19, 2022 1:32 AM

I always thought interesting characterization was kinda the point of drama. One note doesn't exactly make for compelling drama, even if it does clear the based on Alva Vanderbilt threshold.

by Anonymousreply 225April 19, 2022 2:24 AM

Then don't watch the show, r225.

What do I care? What do I care if you live or die?

by Anonymousreply 226April 19, 2022 2:27 AM

So I’ve been watching the PBS show Victoria, it’s a beautiful show.

The costumes and interiors are spectacular. Jenna Coleman is adorable in the role.

Anyway, even a story about a queen cannot be told without the dynamic of the downstairs people in the castle.

There’s drama there as well.

Even if, at this point, we don’t care about the support staff, we will come to know them more and like them as well.

by Anonymousreply 227April 19, 2022 3:41 AM

[quote] That's kind of the point, isn't it? Bertha does not need charm because she's so rich.

That’s not what I was saying, Beetha needs charm as a leading lady. Lady Mary on Downton was a downright cunt but Michelle Dockery brought a lot to the role. All the soap opera matriarchs bring oodles of character. You can’t have the first person on the call sheet as a black hole of charisma, even if they are technically a good actor. Louisa Jacobson is not a terrible actor at all but she was plausible as as the slightly stupid but fundamentally decent ingenue. You could understand why the aunts were happy to take her in and why the sassy black writer forgave her Lady Bountiful act. There is no universe in which Ward McAllister genuinely enjoys Bertha’s company - because it’s not just about the money.

by Anonymousreply 228April 19, 2022 11:05 AM

R226, why should you care indeed? But given what you just posted, when you really think on it, why not spend less time talking to me and more time talking to a mental health professional.

by Anonymousreply 229April 19, 2022 11:06 AM

R228, exactly. But apparently Bertha is much more Alva Vanderbilt than you and I understand and apparently Alva was a one dimensional climber and that's fascinating. R224/R226 will tell you. In no uncertain terms. Let her dictate our views.

by Anonymousreply 230April 19, 2022 11:09 AM

Try to say Knickerbocker ten times really fast.

by Anonymousreply 231April 19, 2022 2:06 PM

New cast additions for season 2:

Laura Benanti, Robert Sean Leonard, and a bunch of others I've never heard of. Also some story details:

Here are some highlights.

After zeroing in on Gladys Russell for most of Season 1, Agnes’ son Oscar may be shifting his attention to another rich heiress to marry. Meanwhile, Bertha may try to match Gladys with a posh British Duke in a move echoing Cora and Robert Crawley from Downton Abbey.

After he appeared to finally be getting his father George’s approval to pursue a career in architecture at the end of Season 1, Larry Russell seems to be excelling at that, spearheading major mansion renovations. Meanwhile, after her niece Marian arrived to New York last season, we will see a nephew of Agnes’ next.

We also learn that Flora McNeil, whom Watson has been watching from afar, raising fan speculation that he might be her father, “has been brought up to believe the lie that her father deserted her and her mother.” There is also a new wealthy banker character named Robert McNeil.

Like Fellowes did in Season 1, he will continue to be mixing historical figures with his fictional characters. Educator Booker T. Washington will appear in Season 2, possibly helping bring closer together Peggy Scott and her editor T. Thomas Fortune who will travel to meet him for an assignment.

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by Anonymousreply 232April 22, 2022 5:10 PM

The descriptions of the new characters are interesting, although "Dashiell" is an unlikely first name for an adult in the 1880s. (It was Dashiell Hammett's mother's maiden name, and he was born in Maryland in 1894.)

Laura Benanti and Robert Sean Leonard are good cast additions, though the last thing this cast seems to need is yet another wealthy widow. (We already have Agnes, Ada, and Sylvia.)

by Anonymousreply 233April 22, 2022 5:22 PM

Ben Lamb, who will play Gladys's new marriage prospect the Duke of Buckingham, is very handsome.

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by Anonymousreply 234April 22, 2022 5:23 PM

R234-Of course he is. Another Bernie Telsey "discovery".

by Anonymousreply 235April 22, 2022 6:04 PM

Louisa Jacobson so reminds me of Nellie Oleson

by Anonymousreply 236April 22, 2022 6:30 PM

She’s the love child of Nellie Oleson and Susan Olson (Cindy Brady).

by Anonymousreply 237April 22, 2022 8:05 PM

I’d be willing to bet that Ada and the new character played by Robert Sean Leonard are Marian’s parents.

by Anonymousreply 238April 22, 2022 8:43 PM

OMG! That's what this show needs....the Olesons!

Harriet leaves Lars and takes Nellie and Willie to the Big Apple to live with her cousins, the van Rijns!

by Anonymousreply 239April 22, 2022 9:06 PM

Will we see any Gilded Age butts? That's my concern.

by Anonymousreply 240April 22, 2022 10:30 PM

Isn't the joke that every show Benanti is in gets cancelled? Or is it every pilot is never picked up? May be the latter.

In any event, I will bet money Benanti is Bertha's sister, who George mentioned in the first episode and to which Bertha gave a firm no.

She will be called.....

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by Anonymousreply 241April 22, 2022 11:19 PM

From the previously linked article:

LAURA BENANTI as Susan Blane: Recently widowed by a rich, dull man many years her senior, Susan is a very beautiful, glamorous woman living in Newport who hires Larry as her architect for a major renovation on her Newport home.

by Anonymousreply 242April 23, 2022 12:04 AM

I predict that Laura Benanti's Susan Blane will spend Season Two trying to tempt Larry Russell.

by Anonymousreply 243April 23, 2022 12:07 AM

The Vanderbilt's daughter did marry some British aristocrat.

by Anonymousreply 244April 23, 2022 12:10 AM

I want to see Benanti's Melania impression

by Anonymousreply 245April 23, 2022 12:10 AM

r244: Consuelo Vanderbilt was forced into marrying the Duke of Marlborough by her mother, Alva. He wanted the enormous dowry she broughtso he could refurbish the family pile in Oxfordshire, Blenheim Palace, then as now the single largest house in all of the UK. He treated her horribly and rarely spoke to her after she produced the requisite 'heir and a spare": she divorced him after about a decade.

by Anonymousreply 246April 23, 2022 1:01 AM

[quote]I’d be willing to bet that Ada and the new character played by Robert Sean Leonard are Marian’s parents.

If only.

by Anonymousreply 247April 23, 2022 1:06 AM

Is he the one that renegotiated the dowry at the altar r246? Someone on one of these threads mentioned some awful husband, pretty sure it was a British m'lord, who refused at the last minute to marry the bride unless the parents coughed up more. I admit I totally want to see that scene.

by Anonymousreply 248April 23, 2022 1:11 AM

It is surprising that they’re letting Laura back on TV after this.

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by Anonymousreply 249April 23, 2022 1:26 AM

[quote]New cast additions for season 2: Laura Benanti, Robert Sean Leonard, and a bunch of others I've never heard of. Also some story details: Here are some highlights...

Mmph... This show has "jumped the shark" already. It's already very difficult to know and follow all of the current characters along with the numerous story lines. But now, the show is adding more characters and storylines? Who has time to waste on nonsense like this?

This is why I have always LOVED the "Law & Order" franchises. Generally every episode has a beginning, middle, and end. A viewer doesn't need to know about the character or their background. It's all about the story.

by Anonymousreply 250April 23, 2022 7:47 AM

You never know, R250, but my reaction on reading about the additions was the first season had too many characters. Then they boosted almost everybody to full time status (Team Aurora Fane on that one) and now they're adding a raft of recurring - in what, nine or ten episodes?

We still know nothing about Bertha's backstory save a reference to grandpa digging potatoes in Kerry, and George has been barely explored in the present. We know he loves his wife, loves his children somewhat maybe a little less than he loves his wife but more than you might expect in 1882, and will use his heft to support his wife's crazy ambitions, to whom he will occasionally raise his voice when she puts her crazy ambitions ahead of worry about his potential prison sentence but will forgive the next day anyway. Oh, and against the tide of the times he appears to sleep naked. George is kinda of like if Lord Grantham had an evil twin, who, when written by Julian Fellows, isn't actually very evil at all, just a little pushy.

I was totally enjoying the show by the end when it seemed to find focus... the ball and the elopement drew in most of the characters, directly or peripherally. I look forward to the return, but I bet GA is going to be one of those shows remembered for costing a lot and being pretty good but never being great. The quality of the writing, and so the characterization, will never get to great, which I always expect is more likely than not from an HBO show.

by Anonymousreply 251April 23, 2022 12:48 PM

Definitely too many characters, but R250: L&O and its related show are always the same show. I lost interest during the first season.

by Anonymousreply 252April 23, 2022 1:22 PM

[quote] but I bet GA is going to be one of those shows remembered for costing a lot and being pretty good but never being great.

Has anyone learned what the cost/episode is?

by Anonymousreply 253April 23, 2022 1:48 PM

No clue, but the sets, the costumes, the wigs, (the cast of thousands), the location shoots in Troy and Newport... gotta be one of the more expensive ones on the go.

by Anonymousreply 254April 23, 2022 2:11 PM

[quote] Generally every episode has a beginning, middle, and end. A viewer doesn't need to know about the character or their background. It's all about the story.

You do understand that The Gilded Age is a soap opera, right? A serialized melodrama where backstory is vitally important.

by Anonymousreply 255April 23, 2022 3:45 PM

I like backstory, as per R255. They're characters, not Barbies.

by Anonymousreply 256April 23, 2022 4:21 PM

[quote]You do understand that The Gilded Age is a soap opera, right? A serialized melodrama where backstory is vitally important.

Duh... DUMB ASS! Of course, I do! But, what has been posted numerous times in these threads (because I am one of them) is how terribly written this "melodrama" is. I suppose my big disappointments with this "whatever" is, is that there has been so much money that has gone into it. A LOT of expertise has gone into this production. All of the intellect skill, and experience, that were needed to make this production as near as authentic as possible (just think of all of the numerous jobs created) are all at risk because of terrible writing and soon people will lose interest. Let's just hope that this will not be a CNN-Plus phenomenon ($300MM invested only to operate for one month before it was shut down)

by Anonymousreply 257April 23, 2022 4:25 PM

Ok, ok. I was just pointing out that your stated preference -- static characters on a show where everything is resolved in a single episode -- is not what The Gilded Age is. Yes, we know the writing is shit, but I was making a point about the genre, not the quality of writing.

by Anonymousreply 258April 23, 2022 4:33 PM

The show gained viewers over time, it didn't lose them. Why do you think people will suddenly lose interest?

by Anonymousreply 259April 23, 2022 5:41 PM

I'm surprised they've released so much information about the second season so early.

by Anonymousreply 260April 23, 2022 6:30 PM

[quote] But now, the show is adding more characters and storylines? Who has time to waste on nonsense like this?

Well, not you, clearly. But many people LIKE serial drama televisions shows like this and "Succession" and "The Crown" even if you personally don't. This has received very strong ratings so far for HBO--your personal likes and dislikes are perhaps not indicative of what the general public will watch.

But you're so hostile to other posters that it sounds like you care only what you personally think and what you personally want.

by Anonymousreply 261April 23, 2022 8:43 PM

I like it too r261, but honestly, they do have too many characters, and are too quick to pick up and drop story lines. It's kind of frantic and silly a lot of the time. Oh look, someone has a gambling problem. Nope, it's gone. Oh somebody has a bitchy mother. Nope, lost all interest. "Let's move on" seems to be the motto of this show.

Seriously, does Julian have ADHD?

by Anonymousreply 262April 23, 2022 9:07 PM

Well, they did follow through with Mrs. Bauer's gambling problem, and showed her dutifully repaying Ada every wek for the loan. And i think the business with Armstrong and her mother was just to establish why Armstrong was such a bitch, and not amke it just a matter of "motiveless malignancy."

Since they built that whole set for Armstrong's mother, I would think it likely they'll bring her back next season. Maybe Armstrong will get so fed up with her she'll smother her with a pillow. You could probably get away with that in 1882 if no one was around to witness it.

by Anonymousreply 263April 23, 2022 9:21 PM

That wasn’t a set, R263, it was a location in Troy according to my crew friend.

by Anonymousreply 264April 23, 2022 9:23 PM

FYI: The reason that the Black community fled (that's right... FLED) to Brooklyn can be traced back to 1863 when the first military draft was introduced for the Civil War. What was supposed to be protests against the draft and the war quickly developed into a race riot.

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by Anonymousreply 265April 24, 2022 12:56 AM

Remember Archie Baldwin (the twink who was dating Gladys and then was sent away by her parents)? Tom Blyth is the lead of a new Wild Wild West show about Billy The Kid on Epix.

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by Anonymousreply 266April 24, 2022 7:55 AM

^^^ I thought George sent him to work with a Jewish firm?

by Anonymousreply 267April 24, 2022 7:58 AM

r267, what else do you think I meant with "parents sent him away"?

by Anonymousreply 268April 24, 2022 8:01 AM

He did.

by Anonymousreply 269April 25, 2022 11:23 AM

I hope Fellowes doesn't base Bertha too much on Alva Vanderbilt. She was a nasty piece of work, without redeeming qualities. Fellowes isn't a good enough writer to carry off that kind of drama. At some point, George and Bertha would divorce if he follows Alva step by step. The Gilded Age really hit peak excess in the 90s and around the turn of the century. Newport in the early 1880s wasn't even really going over the top yet. The cottages took a couple of years to build. I'm struggling to figure out why he started the show in 1882.

by Anonymousreply 270April 25, 2022 11:28 AM

[Quote]Alva Vanderbilt. She was a nasty piece of work, without redeeming qualities.

Really? Tell us more, R270. Granted, she treated her daughter as nothing more than chattel but this was done out of love for the betterment and elevation of the family as a whole. Pawns, while useful, are expendable. Kings and queens are not.

But, in your opinion, Alva was nasty in what kind of way? I mean, her husband cheated on her and she simply said; "fuck that", and didn't put up with it. She was heavily instrumental in helping women's suffrage and equal rights. Finally, she hasn't been given enough credit (IMHO) regarding her contribution to architecture.

by Anonymousreply 271April 25, 2022 12:05 PM

Did anyone really watch this piece of shit all the way through?

I tapped out halfway through episode two.

by Anonymousreply 272April 25, 2022 12:07 PM

[quote]"parents sent him away"?

Oh, goodness! Was he.... preg... I mean... was he with child? Rather, was he in... a family way?

by Anonymousreply 273April 25, 2022 12:21 PM

R272, and you're still posting about it?

by Anonymousreply 274April 25, 2022 2:06 PM

Someone on the Facebook Gilded Age page suggested Sean Young for season two. What a great comeback moment for her!

by Anonymousreply 275April 25, 2022 2:14 PM

Sean Young was pretty decent in the first season of The Alienist. She didn't have much to do in that, though.

by Anonymousreply 276April 25, 2022 2:17 PM

[quote]Granted, she treated her daughter as nothing more than chattel but this was done out of love for the betterment and elevation of the family as a whole.

Well, I've never thought modest human sacrifice was admirable but even no morals is a value system, I suppose.

by Anonymousreply 277April 25, 2022 4:13 PM

They've already got a fat legacy from the 80s in Jeanne Tripplechin.

by Anonymousreply 278April 25, 2022 4:15 PM

Season 2 starts shooting on Thursday. A few days in NY then uo to Newport.

by Anonymousreply 279April 25, 2022 6:03 PM

A review of the Downton movie in the Daily Mail sums up the talents of Julian Fellowes in all his creations:

As always with Downton, the suspicion mounts that Fellowes has found out from Wikipedia what was happening at the time and shaped his narrative accordingly.

by Anonymousreply 280April 26, 2022 12:41 PM

This is a well done short video tracings the history of one of the Vanderbilt mansions.

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by Anonymousreply 281April 29, 2022 2:51 AM

I wonder what happened to all that brownstone. Hopefully it was reused and not put into landfill.

by Anonymousreply 282April 29, 2022 4:12 AM

R282 I doubt it, even when Grand Central Station was demolished it was all pretty much dumped in the New Jersey Meadowlands. Luckily, a passionate curator from the Brooklyn Museum basically followed the trucks to the site and was able to save some bits and pieces for their sculpture garden.

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by Anonymousreply 283April 29, 2022 7:48 AM

Oh no. What a waste. Such stupidity.

by Anonymousreply 284April 29, 2022 8:40 AM

R283: Grand central is still with us, do you ean Penn Station?

by Anonymousreply 285April 29, 2022 11:26 AM

Sorry yes! Opps!

by Anonymousreply 286April 29, 2022 11:28 AM

A lot of those houses had comparatively short lives before demolition.

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by Anonymousreply 287April 29, 2022 11:37 AM

^Thank you for the article, R287. I enjoyed it!

by Anonymousreply 288April 30, 2022 12:16 PM

Correct me if I'm wrong but my understanding was "the season" in New York City was the winter and spring months, while the summers took them to the Berkshires or Newport or the Hudson Valley.

by Anonymousreply 289April 30, 2022 12:35 PM

Beautiful, quite interesting, and a lot of fun!

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by Anonymousreply 290May 9, 2022 4:11 PM

Any Insta stuff or anything from the resumed shooting?

by Anonymousreply 291May 14, 2022 12:50 PM

First season 2 post on Insta. George and Bertha seem happy so no Alva Vanderbilt style divorce in evidence...

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by Anonymousreply 292May 17, 2022 6:00 PM

Paging all DLers! You can be an extra on the show!

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by Anonymousreply 293May 20, 2022 8:35 PM

I wish I lived up there, I would love to be an extra on the show and watch them put it all together! But I suspect that this is not a great way to make a living...

by Anonymousreply 294May 20, 2022 8:37 PM

R294, you won’t want to be wearing a wool suit standing outside all day in August, though.

by Anonymousreply 295May 20, 2022 9:34 PM

I have reading Mrs. Astor's Court in the Gilded Age. It sounds so much like today, toward the end of the Gilded Age. Clueless excess, wealth disparity so great that what once seemed admirable and enviable came to be censored and deplored. And most of them did morph into awful people. One threw a dinner party where precious jewels were hidden in mounds of sand on the dinner table and the guests got miniature silver shovels to dig for treasure. Another gave guests cigarettes made out of $100 bills, with the hosts initials printed on them in gold. Ridiculous and vulgar.

It's going to prove a challenge for the writing skills of Uncle Julian, who likes a happy ending and benign characters even at their worst, so I'd guess this goes the way of Downton's sappiness really quickly... it's called the Gilded Age and it's set in the Gilded Age but it won't actually dramatise the Gilded Age because there'd be almost nobody to actually like on screen.

The book is an interesting read except when he bogs down in paragraph after paragraph over describing interiors.

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by Anonymousreply 296May 21, 2022 11:44 AM

I have been reading... only half a coffee this far... sorry.

by Anonymousreply 297May 21, 2022 11:44 AM

Get a load of this... hilarious.

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by Anonymousreply 298May 27, 2022 11:07 PM

Awesome r298 😄

by Anonymousreply 299May 28, 2022 2:37 PM

What a coincidence, eh?

by Anonymousreply 300May 28, 2022 2:40 PM

And Coon’s remark seems to indicate their bit was cut from the commercial?

by Anonymousreply 301May 28, 2022 2:57 PM

I didn't understand that bit, so thanks, R301.

by Anonymousreply 302May 28, 2022 3:02 PM

Something about that doesn't add up. The commercial that Carrie links to was made in 1993. In 1993, both Morgan Spector and Carrie Coon were young teenagers. So I think this looks like a deep fake or a joke video.

by Anonymousreply 303May 28, 2022 3:14 PM

Good catch. That is weird.

by Anonymousreply 304May 28, 2022 3:17 PM

[quote]And Coon’s remark seems to indicate their bit was cut from the commercial?

That's not what "deep cut" means, it doesn't indicate something that was cut or excised—it means a work by an artist that is little known compared to their other work. It comes from music—when a DJ would play a track buried deep in an album, it was known as a "deep cut."

by Anonymousreply 305May 28, 2022 4:48 PM

Ah, OK, thanks, [R305]. I’m not up with what the kids are saying, nowadays

by Anonymousreply 306May 28, 2022 4:59 PM

Coon has the COVID.

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by Anonymousreply 307June 3, 2022 3:14 AM

So I just finished watching this and saw the last reply about Coon having covid so I checked her Twitter and she seems to be recovered or recovering.

I see from her Twitter she’s fiercely liberal and I love her even more now.

Yes, I adored her in TGA. I did read through this last thread just now though and the trashing of her was very funny (although I absolutely disagree with it).

by Anonymousreply 308June 21, 2022 1:59 AM

I had a dream last night that I was seeing the next season's first episode. My imagination was a better writer than Julian Fellowes.

by Anonymousreply 309June 21, 2022 7:26 PM

I am looking forward to Season Two of The Gilded Age. But I do have to say, Downton Abbey: A New Era was very disappointing. I think Julian Fellows is better suited for TV than for cinema.

by Anonymousreply 310June 21, 2022 7:41 PM

I thought the newest Downton movie was pretty good. Nothing super-special, but loads better than the first one. It was nice to see them all again, and a much better use of the characters for the most part.

by Anonymousreply 311June 22, 2022 5:27 AM

Carrie Coon and Morgan Spector gave an interview where they hilariously mock the Trump children, as I read the subtext:

Bertha is determined to have Gladys Russell marry someone of high status. Is Bertha seeking out someone who will be just as much of a partner for Gladys as George is for her, or is she seeking out a life where Gladys won’t have to fight to the top like her parents?

Coon: Door number two. What Bertha knows is that the world is not set up for women. If Gladys had any ambition, and it doesn’t appear that she does, she wouldn’t be able to realize it. The world is set up for her son [Larry Russell, played by Harry Richardson]. He’s an attractive, rich, white man. He’s gonna be just fine. And so, some people may quibble with the way Bertha goes about it, because she’s very singleminded, but ultimately what she’s doing is an act of love.

She really wants Gladys to be taken care of, and I don’t think she’s thinking much about Gladys’ happiness. She’s thinking of her material security. It’s a failure of Bertha not to see that her love match is one of the things that sustains her. It’s not something she’s prepared to make space for for her daughter, because she’s too concerned with her survival, frankly.

Spector: I just want to say, one of my favorite bits on set is you in character being horrible to Gladys [both laugh]. Just mocking Taissa [Farmiga] mercilessly.

Coon: Taissa loves it.

Spector: She loves it. It makes her laugh more than anything else. But the fact that it’s worked it’s way into your interviews is just chef’s kiss fantastic [laughs].

Coon: Yes, my children: a dullard and a dilettante. And you know, because we’re rich white people in the Gilded Age, we can have a dullard and a dilettante, and we can make sure they’re set up all right, because we can fail up! Mediocre children can fail up in this world, and still can, frankly. So, not a lot has changed.

Spector: It’s true though. I’ve had conversations in passing with Julian about this. The history of these families was not one of necessarily continued success as the businesses were passed down through the generations. A lot of these men who built these fortunes, they were legitimately brilliant businesspeople, but their kids were raised in total comfort and quite often did not possess the requisite skillset to maintain these empires. These enormous fortunes, many of them did vanish. And so, the dullard and the dilettante I actually think is not an uncommon model.

Coon: No! In fact, we’ve recently seen some in our own country!

Spector: Imagine.

Coon: Some really dull children.

by Anonymousreply 312July 2, 2022 11:56 AM

I hope it intends to continue to 1906 so we can watch the fate of the Russells' Mr White unfold.

by Anonymousreply 313July 7, 2022 2:11 PM

Isn't the Depression of 1882–1885 just around the corner? This is when railway expansion cooled significantly, so are Coon and her husband just going to chill a bit over the next couple of seasons until the money starts flowing again?

by Anonymousreply 314July 7, 2022 2:22 PM

Remember, this is Uncle Julian. The prospect of ruin is always solved by a bundle of money falling out of the sky after the drama has been milked to the extent you can bother.

by Anonymousreply 315July 7, 2022 2:41 PM

A horse died on set-and PETA is PISSED.

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by Anonymousreply 316July 8, 2022 5:10 PM

I think it only got an Emmy nomination for production design today. No costume design nomination which seems like major shade.

by Anonymousreply 317July 12, 2022 7:04 PM

I'm surprised Christine Baranski didn't get a nomination. Guess they were too busy nominating "actors" like Sydney Sweeney

by Anonymousreply 318July 12, 2022 7:33 PM

No nomination for costume design is a shame.

I didn't think it would pick up any acting nominations. Neither Baranski nor Nixon had enough to do this season, and Coon and Jacobson both seem too stiff (though they both enormously improved in the final episode). There are superb other actors in the cast, such as John Douglas Thompson, Audra McDonald, Kelli O'Hara, Donna Murphy, Morgan Spector, and (most of all) Denée Benton, but so far the writing has let them down. Julian Fellowes has little idea as to how to write for character.

by Anonymousreply 319July 12, 2022 7:50 PM

The lack of nominations must sting since so many other HBO shows scored nods.

by Anonymousreply 320July 13, 2022 11:41 PM

First season and it just aired earlier this year, I doubt they're bothered.

by Anonymousreply 321July 14, 2022 12:26 AM

Uhhh, I think they are.

by Anonymousreply 322July 14, 2022 2:06 AM

[quote] I'm surprised Christine Baranski didn't get a nomination. Guess they were too busy nominating "actors" like Sydney Sweeney

Again,it has to do with the writing. Sweeney's not a tenth of the actress Baranski is, but her character genuinely went somewhere in "The White Lotus." Baranski's character went nowhere... she stayed exactly the same at the beginning of the season as she was at the end.

by Anonymousreply 323July 14, 2022 2:17 AM

The writing is lacking and most of the performances have been underwhelming (e.g., Coon, Streepette) or underwritten (Baranski) or just awful (Nixon).

by Anonymousreply 324July 14, 2022 7:52 PM

LOL, even the worst actors on the show are better than Zendaya, Elle Fanning, and Sydney Sweeney

by Anonymousreply 325July 14, 2022 8:12 PM

It is amazing to me that someone who counts himself such a student of Trollope and Thackeray knows so little about writing for character.

by Anonymousreply 326July 14, 2022 8:14 PM

Carrie Coon is hilarious.

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by Anonymousreply 327August 21, 2022 7:11 PM

That tweet has been deleted, R327. What was so hilarious about it?

by Anonymousreply 328August 22, 2022 12:56 PM

R328: She wrote something about Republicans banning books (based on a check list graphic) and her words included fascists and keep your hands of my library card... "people can read whatever the fuck they like"... or something like it... fuck was definitely included.

I think she got tangled up in misunderstanding the list so she deleted the tweet after being told so.

She's hilarious... very anti-Republican and not afraid to open fire, but this time she shot first and asked questions later. Still, I like her... she takes no prisoners and makes plain her point of view. I read an interview with her where she talked about being an athlete in high school.... and she's got that bouncy confidence of somebody who is competitive at heart and enjoys it. Most actors spouting their politics I find cloying, but she makes me laugh... feisty and unambiguous.

by Anonymousreply 329August 22, 2022 2:48 PM

Morgan Spector says hey

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by Anonymousreply 330May 31, 2023 3:16 PM

r330 HOT. Should show this to the poster asking about signet rings yesterday.

by Anonymousreply 331May 31, 2023 3:24 PM

I would agree the three major black actors deserved nominations--they've all been terrific. But the white actors have been son uneven, and I agree the major fault is the writing for their characters. Julian Fellowes can conceive of characters but he cannot take them anywhere.

by Anonymousreply 332May 31, 2023 3:31 PM

I wonder if Perry Mason’s cancellation is a bad thing or good thing for TGA.

by Anonymousreply 333June 11, 2023 8:44 PM

First the insane delay and now the WGA strike, we ain't getting a third season of this. Sucks, because I loved discussing it here on DL.

by Anonymousreply 334June 11, 2023 8:51 PM
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