‘Downton Abbey: A New Era’ official trailer is here!

OP- What's up with Lord Grantham?

He's all TAN and SLIM now- he looks quite a bit HOMOSEXUAL.

This movie looks as promising as the second Sex And The City Movie

Is this serious? Jesus, they've gotten as bad as SATC. What's next, Downton Abbey: Aristocracy In Space!" ?"

Going to the French Riviera?

Filming a movie at Downton?

Really?!? These are the ideas for a movie plot?

But I do love Hugh Bonneville's deep tan and slimmed-down figure!

And was Dominic West making eyes at Thomas the Footman?

I don't like SKINNY Lord Grantham

I like TUBBY Lord Grantham.

I always thought that Edith's husband was good looking.

Oh shit, can't we just let this people die in peace?

R8- What is worse- the way they keep dragging out Downton Abbey or Sex And The City?

Coming Christmas 2023! Downton Abbey Meets the Harlem Globetrotters!!

R10- Coming Christmas 2033 - The Downton Children Attend Woodstock 1969.

It looked so stupid I didn't finish watching the trailer.

It's finally run its course. If the reviews are bad, this will be a huge flop.

If the review for Downton Movie 2 are bad, they'll just go back to making the TV series. It'll come back with a new titled, "And Just Like Then"

What's happened to Hugh Dancy? He looks almost unrecognizable in the trailer - I guess he plays the director or the producer of the film shot at DA. He appears drained of all sexuality.

I agree R6. Always had a thing for chubby Hugh B. This version looks ridiculous. Same like Alec Baldwin losing all his sex appeal in the latter seasons of 30 Rock after all that slimming down

We’ve always liked movies about rich people and they usually win all the awards. Someone has to perpetuate the bullshit of capitalism and aristocracy. If not, we might realize we’re just wage slaves motivated by fear.

I totally would have bent over for chubby Hugh B, but he looks so haggard here.

Looks like Thomas is going to get new dick in this film.

And it looks like it will be Dominic West's.

The last episode or two of the TV series were horrible. Everything got tied up to give every single character some type of happy ending, no matter how ridiculous the plot.

I'm not surprised these movies are so bad. The actor who plays Barrow has 4 children he needs to support. I don't blame the actors for getting paid while it's possible. They could have some lean years ahead, why not cash in now.

Lord Grantham has me moister than a SNACK CAKE!

I wonder why the date was changed on the release. It used to be that putting it early in the year was a chance to cut loose all the flops.

But they moved this from March to May, so perhaps someone thinks this will do well enough or pick up The Olds as a viewing audience.

Will this only be playing in theaters? Or streaming, too? It doesn't seem like the audiences for this kind of film are still venturing out much. Perhaps the later release date is hopeful that things will change by May?

Does Dowager Violet die at the end?

How will they hide Maggie Smith’s oxygen tube and ventilator?

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Hugh Bonneville has gained some weight back and looks great for his age but not quite so chemo.

Hopefully Thomas will get a sugar daddy

[quote] Someone has to perpetuate the bullshit of capitalism and aristocracy. If not, we might realize we’re just wage slaves motivated by fear

R17 Marx says we need capitalists to take initiative and use capital in order to make capital and provide employment for all those staff-people.

They're obliged to take gambles on differing propositions and they live with fear (as you put it) when they make those decisions.

[quote]What's next, Downton Abbey: Aristocracy In Space!" ?"

Harold & Kumar Go to Downton Abbey

It looks fucking terrible. Will Liza show up to sing a Beyonce song?

Hole is presented!

Unfortunately it's Mrs. Patmore's.

Ooh, I can hardly wait to not see this!

Are times chaaaaaangin’?

Is everybody economically safe & sound?

Have the toffee married millionaires, titled twats, gentleman farmers?

Have the downstairs crew all started their own businesses?

Mrs Patmore opening a restaurant?

Mr & Mrs Carson opening a hotel/ B&B/holiday camp?

Baxter & Moseley married and superintending a school system for the poors?

Daisy standing as a socialist candidate in the next by election?

Have Bates and the missus been arrested for murder lately?

Barrow and his husband opening a private detective agency?

Rose and her husband having Jewish babies whose future will be either portended as threatened by the holocaust, or foretold as a future diplomat who saves countless lives by issuing documents to escape Nazi Germany?

Lord Grantham deciding to invest all their money in US stock market?

Will the nauseating Pippa Middleton be back, dipping her head in humility as the maid-millionaire who marries the staid former firebrand chauffeur? Will she reveal to the royal family that she was the spawn of a scandalous affair?

^ Triggered.

The Guardian says..

"The second – and hopefully last – film spun off from Julian Fellowes’s successful TV series is as hammy, silly, and undeniably entertaining as ever."

Variety says.....

Telegraph says...

Elizabeth McGovern has morphed into Buster Keaton.

My guess is there will be at least one more film. Like remake of "Upstairs/Downstairs and other similar period British dramas we'll see further adventures of Crawley family though 1930's up to late in that decade when Britain enters WWII.

DA already did WWI, can't imagine they'll go down that road again. First and foremost how long is the old dowager meant to live anyway?

"Coming Christmas 2033 - The Downton Children Attend Woodstock 1969"

I would pay to see that. no joke. So sue me.

Dame Maggie is going to milk DA long as there is breathe in her body.

Old gal shows up, hits her marks/says her lines, and is home before tea time. All for which she is paid rather well and it's steady work.

The dowager countess will out live her son, DIL, and maybe a few granddaughters.

“The times are chaaaaaangin’!”

My god, all those DA actresses look horrible at the premiere! Terrible ghoulish makeup and greasy hairstyling. Awful gowns, overdone and unflattering! The only one who looks fresh and healthy is Raquel Cassidy (who?). And Imelda Staunton and Penelope Wilton seem to have dressed for a Sunday picnic.

And Hugh Bonneville still looks too thin. Has he been ill? Hugh Dancy and Harry Haddon Patton (did I get that right?) both also look positively anorexic. But Allen Leech looks great!

Where was Rob Collier-Whatshisname??

Dame Maggie was wise to stay home.

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HB down through years. He was quite handsome as a young man.

DA will end on Netflix 1 June 2022....

There is no mention of Tom?

I guess I just found Hugh far sexier with a little more heft on him. But I was wrong, he does at least look healthy now, not ill.

Cool, I'm going back to the movies for the first time since the pandemic hit and none of you bitching fuck heads will be there. Yeah!

HB is going on.... Better to slim down now at 58, then to keep packing pounds on well into his 60's. Far better to enter those years fit as possible, than trying to reverse course later on.

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Also from 2020....

"While Hugh appeared on the show to discuss a project he was working on, in the past he has revealed that a combination of exercise and changing his eating habits helped him slimmed down from when his wife gave him loving jabs about his softer frame. He told the U.K.’s The Telegraph in 2009 that he hired a personal trainer and had cut back on large portions and high carb foods after his wife ribbed him about being overweight. It’s been a road of progress, and look how great Hugh looks now!"

You can see, well you can see HB had really put on weight. He is a big lad (standing 6'5"), and never was rail thin svelte even as a young man. But sort of extra weight HB was putting on isn't healthy in long run. Especially as one ages.

Many men tell themselves "oh it's just a bit of a tummy", when in reality they are a few stones overweight, and counting.

Best line from the Daily Maul: As always with Downton, the suspicion mounts that Fellowes has found out from Wikipedia what was happening at the time and shaped his narrative accordingly.

Matthew Goode apparently couldn't be bothered to show up even for several minute cameos. Thus Lady Mary is once again on her own it appears.

It never ceases to amaze while acknowledging Downton Abbey is fiction, the Crawley family has a life so alien from what really went on in British aristocratic families of period. Brideshead Revisited, Gosford Park, Upstairs/Downstairs (original series) are all far more believable on that score.

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I've maintained for a long time that the whole gang is now essentially to the British aristocracy what Michael Landon was to pioneers on the prairie.

They've got an ATM on their hands, so what else would they do?

Review from the Independent is very unkind...

Dame Maggie Smith basically carries and has carried Downton Abbey almost from start. However given chronological events the dowager would be nearly 100 at this point.

Downton Abbey begins in 1912 with the sinking of the Titanic. the dowager countess was about 80 then. This latest film is set in 1928 making Violet Crawley about 96, that's hard to credit given how the dowager doesn't look nor act anywhere near decrepit.

Personally think this film will mark the going out of dowager countess. If Fellowes does another DA film or whatever it would have to be well into 1930's, near 1940 even (what else is there left?), making Violet well past 100. Not even Queen Victoria lived that long....

Many of the reviews reference a funeral, without naming the deceased. Maggie's character is ancient, Matthew Goode's character is entirely missing so either Granny goes to her reward or Lady Mary's death vagina has worked its dark magic yet again.

Why would the Dowager be 80 in 1912? I always thought she was more like 65 and her son Robert in his early 40s. People looked so much older in those days.

Is Hugh Bonneville really 6'5" as an article upthread states?

I guess it's well and truly and unavoidably spoiled once a newspaper prints an obituary, so, according to her obituary, she was 87.

"A Madea Guy Fawkes Day at Downton Abbey"

R58, can't wait for the next Downton movie, where Lady Mary is terrorized by a clown mask rapist!

[quote] the Crawley family has a life so alien from what really went on in British aristocratic families of period.

R56 You assume a tone of authority as if you, yourself, lived in a British aristocratic family of the period.

Hugh Bonneville is 6' 1½" tall or 6' 2" if rounded up.

R66

Keep a civil tongue in your mouth sauce box.

One's information comes from researchers and others who chronicled actual lives of all classes in Britain down through years, this includes Victorian, Edwardian periods right through to WWI and "between the war" era.

Like Julian Fellowes other period piece "Gosford Park", Downton Abbey shows post war British upper class households carrying on pretty much as usual after WWI, which was not exactly true across the board.

Both dramas feature homes packed with servants, when in reality the "servant problem" became quite acute in post WWI Britain post WWI.

Young men who either survived WWI, or were too young to serve abandoned or otherwise shunned domestic service in droves. They sought employment in factories and other areas that opened up or expanded post WWI. Women followed and then came another blow; introduction of "the dole" (aka welfare). Women young or old who once would have been forced by economic circumstances into domestic service, now could collect welfare and remain at home if they qualified.

One huge glaring bit of fiction in DA is the interaction between "upstairs" and "downstairs". Crawley family is too intimately involved with lives of domestic staff in ways that just didn't happen in real life.

Great families often didn't even know the names of various domestic servants much less details of their private lives. Everyone upstairs a DA apparently knows Thomas is gay (even Lady Mary), and acts as if it's completely normal. It's never explained how the earl and his family knows, but yet they all do.

"Great families often didn't even know the names of various domestic servants much less details of their private lives."

I was humping mine!

R62

Violet Crawley was born in 1842

Big sucks on Telegraph letting cat out of bag in such a way. Oh well, guess it couldn't be helped....

[quote] Both dramas feature homes packed with servants, when in reality the "servant problem" became quite acute in post WWI Britain post WWI.

The servant problem was a continuing problem with every English and Australian household I've read about from 1850 too 1930.

Bad as things were to find servants in 1930's Britain, things were about to get worse with run up and eventual entry into WWII. Once again men were called up or volunteered, and women if not in forces went to work in all sorts of areas outside of home. Either way pool of potential servants yet again shrunk.

The upheavals of the First World War, combined with alternative work such as retail and clerical employment for women, saw a dramatic fall in numbers of residential servants. However, the interwar depression, state welfare policies and media pressure combined to push many women back into the domestic service sector in the 1930s. Nonetheless, many felt that the end was in sight and servants were increasingly unwilling to ‘live in’. Domestic service, J B Priestly had declared with breath-taking bluntness in 1927, was “as obsolete as the horse” in an era of motor cars.

After the Second World War, the popular press became preoccupied with a new concept for middle-class living: the servant-less home. This was a home in which labour-saving devices took the place of the people who had once cooked, mopped and scrubbed – and uncluttered furnishing styles promised to make cleaning quick and easy. Servants – whether imagined in rosy hues, or distrusted and demeaned– were apparently no longer needed. Far fewer working women chose this occupation, and it became dominated by informal cleaners, refugees and migrants, occupying new roles such as the ‘au pair’.

Still more...

For those who like a good read...

R71, I kinda thought the same thing but with Twitter and the premiere the night before... what surprised me was that it was written without real wit to it.

R68, in the Upstairs, Downstairs episode Nobless Oblige, the scullery maid has quit and needs a reference. Richard Bellamy doesn't know her surname, although she'd worked for him for 22 years.

In Sackville-West's The Edwardians, it's presented that Her Grace, the matriarch of the massive estate Chevron, wasn't recognized by a parlourmaid when she asked the parlourmaid a question.

It was common for employers and their staff to never see each other in the course of their duties, esp. if the staff didn't regularly have duties wh. brought them into contact with their employers i.e. 'upstairs'.

Just like And Just Like That furiously ticking all the woke boxes because of criticism they were too white (although criticism of the writing in that last movie didn't seem to improve their efforts on the scripts in the reboot), Julian Fellowes is probably hypersensitive about being called a snob, so he writes a show to show how wonderful the poshies were to the servants. (The Jennifer Saunders Red Nose day parody has a great line from Simon Callow giggling as Fellowes "It just a story about some poshies and their - I hate the word servants - [italic]downstairs friends,[/italic]") Downton Abbey is to upstairs and downstairs what Gone with the Wind was to a certain economic and labor model - high sugar and heavily iced.

[quote] Jennifer Saunders Red Nose day parody

Was produced by the BBC in order to bitch about their arch-rivals at ITV.

[quote] It was common for employers and their staff to never see each other in the course of their duties

Depends on the size of the house; Sackville-West's 'Knole' is in the top five of England's largest houses occupying a total of four acres.

Depends on the hierarchies of the servants; only some of them were allowed in the bedchambers where they could easily pilfer small objects.

R78

Forgot which episode but Richard Bellamy thought he handled a problem with servants. When Lady Marjorie finds out what he's done she hits the roof and gives him an earful.

"Richard, I've asked you *NOT* to interfere with the servants" or some such says Lady Bellamy. Richard Bellamy does what any English gentleman would when having a row with his wife; storms out to his club muttering something about "damned servants... I don't know why we have them.."

Talk about slimming down, Alan Leech/Tom is almost unrecognizable. Like the actor who played Matthew. He was attractive in a nice, plumpy soft way but since he left DA, he looks like a manic anorexic.

Yes, this is promising to be a terrible as all the other movies.

The only thing that would make it better is and appearance by....BEANIE!

Downton Abbey Producers and Actors be like.....

Why are the British still obsessed with class? I got stuck in a Jack Whitehall YouTube hole last weekend, watching him do stand up, on chat shows etc and people were always bringing up that he was"posh". Most treated it like it was a bad thing or something to be mocked.

Can’t wait. Love me some Mr. Bates.

It's not the posh (if it's meant to be the technical remnants of the aristocrats) who are obsessed with class, it's the people who aren't posh. The true posh as so self-confident they don't mind what other people call them. Whitehall isn't posh. Economically his mum and dad are upper middle class. Posh these days might mean just wealthy? It's almost a conversation by conversation context. It's strange because there's such a resentment in the UK even though they had some really good years economically in the since the 80s and have become a major financial centre. The French had an aristocracy. Almost all the countries of Europe did, yet the resentment seems to smoulder/afflict the UK uniquely.

There's a joke that has some truth in it.

An American and a Brit are standing on a street corner when a man is driven past in a chauffered car.

"Some day," said the American, "I'm gonna be a big success and have a care like him."

"Some day," said the Brit, "I'll stand for Labour and tax that car away from him."

^ Car, obviously.

79% on RT

The reviews were surprisingly positive - though, granted, they didn't pretend it is anything other than what it is - a fairy tale for the PBS demographic.

Also, Labour politicians in particular and activists in general get a lot of political mileage out of stoking the envy that permeates the British subconscious. There's a couple Brit posters on DL where the reflexive resentment and envy is plain.

R86, acting, entertaining, music hall were all things lower class people did. The posh went to the symphony, the opera, the ballet. Many famous actresses were mistresses of kings, princes, dukes, etc, so “actress” was kind of shorthand for “kept woman.”

In the 1930s and 1940s, British movies and radio featured people with two kinds of accents: RP (Received Pronunciation) and Cockney. The cockney were the entertainers/comedians and the RP were the announcers/hosts.

In 1950s, British media began to allow people with broad local accents in film & radio. Yorkshire, Scots, Welsh, Geordie, Scouse. Then came the Angry Young Man movies of the 1960s. Suddenly, young working class men were the center of the entertainment world in UK and cool as hell. Albert Finney, Richard Harris, Terence Stamp, Tom Courtenay, Michael Caine, Kenneth Haighe. Even posh sounding Peter O’Toole and Laurence Harvey were from working class backgrounds. UK couldn’t get enough of working class actors. Many had gone to drama school on scholarships.

But like the US, nepotism has taken a hard hold in UK entertainment. Many of today’s actors grew up in very comfortable circumstances within the theatrical crowd. The Fox family, the Cumberbatches, the Redgraves, the Cusacks (the Irish ones, nit the Americans).

Then there are the poshes. People like Miranda Hart, Richard E Grant, Hugh Grant, Dominic West, Damien Lewis, Cara Delevigne, Helena Bonham Carter, Eddie Remayne, Tom Hiddleston. They walked into lucrative acting careers without working a day in their lives. Their parents were able to pay for RADA. No scholarship needed. U Actors like James McAvoy and Julie Waters have bemoaned the surfeit of poshes in acting. There seems to be a pathway from Elton, Harrow and Oxbridge leading straight to the UK entertainment industry. Judi Dench has said the demise of repertory theaters in the UK has led to a reliance on drama schools, and the drama schools are too expensive for working class actors. They can’t pay the tuition and the cost of day-to-day living in London. It’s not like they can get a flat and a roommate like they did in the 1960s and become the cool young people.

So that might be why you hearing people mentioning “posh” in a negative way when it comes to entertainment in the UK. Especially when working class people see so many people go straight from Cambridge University’s Footlights straight into comedy jobs in television.

Downtown Abbey was at its best when the two sisters were at each other’s throats.

I always thought it was interesting that they introduced, then abruptly dropped, the plot line of how Lady Edith's lover, the publisher, was attacked/killed by "those dreadful people in Germany -- someone said they were all wearing brown shirts!" And then it was never mentioned again, as if a major publisher being beaten to death in the streets of a foreign country by a paramilitary political gang would be forgotten after a day.

In reality, many of the British aristocracy in the 1930s supported Hitler to varying degrees. I would love to see DA tackle that as it approaches that era, but on the other hand, the joy of this type of entertainment is its dull-witted escapism, so maybe it's best if they stick to the frothier stuff.

One thing I know: Times are changing, m'lud.

[quote] Elton, Harrow and Oxbridge

Sorry, Eton, I have US spellcheck that only knows an Elton, not an Eton.

It doesn’t seem as if Edith - a magazine writer - wrote any articles about her missing bf, the publisher of that magazine..

Would’ve made sense if the Home Office paid Edith a visit and said, “Ah yes, Lady Edith. We know you are upset. But we can’t let anything get out about this business with Mr Gregson. You see, he had a dual purpose in going to Germany. When we learned he was going to Germany for an extended period, we asked him to visit various parts of the country and take notes of military and transportation networks. He was caught in a shipyard and we’re afraid he did not survive the interrogation. Bad ticker, apparently. Please sign this Official Secrets Act document. .

From now on, official word is Mr Gregson disappeared while skiing (or swimming or fishing) and his body was never found.”

Europe's terrible history with class is akin to America's history with racism.

After WWII, Europe has worked hard to end benefits based on class just as the US has been working towards societal equality too

Interesting plot points that are introduced and then abruptly dropped are a time-honored tradition of Julian's writing and producing.

R95- The British Aristocracy supported Hitler including the Queens uncle Edward VIII.

R93 great insights and post x

R92 prefers people who reflexively bow down to the rich

[quote]Then there are the poshes. People like Miranda Hart, Richard E Grant, Hugh Grant, Dominic West, Damien Lewis, Cara Delevigne, Helena Bonham Carter, Eddie Remayne, Tom Hiddleston. They walked into lucrative acting careers without working a day in their lives. Their parents were able to pay for RADA. No scholarship needed. U Actors like James McAvoy and Julie Waters have bemoaned the surfeit of poshes in acting

Hugh Grant had a scholarship to his private school, and Richard E Grant went to a private school in what was Swaziland, where he grew up, the same school several of Nelson Mandela's children went to. Hardly Eton.

And as far as the Eton brigade goes, the idea that they "walked into lucrative acting careers" is hilarious. Damien Lewis didn't get a major role until his late 20s in Band Of Brothers. Tom Hiddleston didn't get his big break until he was 30, when War Horse, Midnight In Paris and Thor came out. Dominic Wrst had a few high profile roles in his 20s but started on The Wire in his 30s. Benedict Cumberbatch started his career as a funny looking supporting actor (notably to James Mcavoy in Atonement and Starter for 10) but in came into his own in his 30s. Eddie Redmayne was mostly doing tv period dramas despite or because of his performances in The Good Shephard and Savage Grace.

Money and a private education doesn't give you roles, it gives you the ability to fund your way through drama school, it gives you confidence, self belief and the ability to survive periods of not working.

It's odd that Olivia Colman is not included in the "private school actors" lists.

Her "I worked as a cleaner to make ends meet" story would be less moving if it was mentioned she had a fairly expensive private education.

And ironically one of the reasons people in Britain are so sniffy about Kenneth Branagh is because he is genuinely working class but was viewed as having aspiration above his station.

Going to a prestigious drama school doesn't guarentee anything, but it does give you a leg up on the competition

And the idea that Eddie Redmayne was suffering because he was doing tv is hysterical. Just working regularly puts you in the top 1% of actors

And poor Richard E. Grant, he had to settle for a private school that wasn't Eton! Boo hoo.

R103 fuck off, Damien Lewis was in an episode of Poirot when he was young!

And R93 is correct, there are a lot of actors foisted on us in Britain from a young age by virtue of their elite education or connections.

Stephen Fry says as much in his own autobiography, he stepped right into high Profile work along with other "Footlights" right after uni and never had to worry about money again.

[quote][R103] fuck off, Damien Lewis was in an episode of Poirot when he was young!

His second screen credit came at the age of 25!! Nothing says "walking into a lucrative acting career" like getting a small part in Poirot at the age of 25!

Damian Lewis is the same age as Ewan McGregor and both went to Guildhall drama school. When Damian Lewis was auditioning for small roles in tv crime dramas Ewan McGregor had been the lead in prestigious TV series and movies.

As I said, going to a private school gives you a sense of self belief and coming from a wealthy family gives you the support network to survive between acting jobs. Many actors from ordinary backgrounds would have really struggled to get to 25 with the few roles that Lewis got, to afford to live in London and audition regularly.

Yeah but Ewan has a great peen and was not afraid to show it! Plus he was suited to Trainspotting which was a cult hit.

Has Damien ever shown his cock?

[quote] Richard E Grant went to a private school in what was Swaziland

Richard E Grant’s father was Henrik Esterhuysen; head of education for the British government in the British protectorate of Swaziland. That’s neither working class nor middle class. That’s upper crust. And it was upper crust in a country with great swathes of servants to British administrators in the 1960s. No problem getting adequate help there.

[quote] the idea that they "walked into lucrative acting careers" is hilarious. Damien Lewis didn't get a major role until his late 20s in Band Of Brothers

Hilarious, you say! Damien Lewis’ maternal grandfather was Lieutenant-Colonel Sir Ian Bowater, Lord Mayor of London, and his maternal grandmother's ancestors include Bertrand, Viscount Dawson of Penn (a doctor to the Royal Family) and the eminent naval shipbuilder (see Yarrow Shipbuilders) and philanthropist Sir Alfred Yarrow, 1st Baronet, who was of partial Sephardic Jewish descent. He has stated that he "went to English boarding schools and grew up around people very much like [his character] Soames and in a milieu very much like the Forsytes'".

Lewis graduated school in 1993 and has since worked steadily in theater, television and films. He went straight from the Guildhall School of Music and Drama to an acting job at the Royal Shakespeare Company - poor dear! How could he stand it, I wonder?

He also made his tv debut in 1993 in A Touch of Frost.

I’ll bet you also say that Elon Musk’s father just happened to have a teensy tiny investment in a minuscule jewel mine in a small African town and it really only made the family a pittance and you know ….well, he wasn’t *born* a billionaire.

Downton Abbey - The Final Chapter

The great grandchild rides the subway to work at a Downtown Arby's, so the story ends!

[quote] young working class men were the center of the entertainment world in UK and cool as hell. Albert Finney, Richard Harris, Terence Stamp, Tom Courtenay, Michael Caine, Kenneth Haighe.

R93 You must be the only Datalaounger to remember 'cool as hell' Kenneth Haighe.[sic]

[quote] Actors like James McAvoy and Julie Waters have bemoaned the surfeit of poshes in acting

Yay Julie!

Atta girl!

[quote] bemoaned the surfeit

Every unemployed actor bemoans the unemployed actor.

R100 is a ludicrous generalisation. Two people don't represent 'The British Aristocracy'.

[quote]Richard E Grant’s father was Henrik Esterhuysen; head of education for the British government in the British protectorate of Swaziland. That’s neither working class nor middle class. That’s upper crust.

Well, fa faaa faaa fa faaaaaa faaaa!

R97, Gregson was killed, IIRC, in the early or mid 20s, around the time of the Beer Hall Putsch and about 10 years before Hitler became Chancellor and started re-arming Germany. But then, hey, it's Downton Abbey, where everything's made up and the timelines don't matter!

(And a character utters a startling anachronism at least once an episode! My favorite was when Lady Mary was disdaining something and she said, "Not a fan.")

[quote] Kenneth Branagh is …genuinely working class

How does one prove anyone is "working class" in Britain when most of them are unemployed and get government welfare handouts?

So does Barrows continue his romance from the previous film or does he get a new romance? At this point, his is the only storyline I care about.

I only care about six of the storylines.

Unfortunately Democratic Downton insists we have to be bored following 20 storylines.

There is insanely little about Barrow, his gay story line and the actor who portrays him in this thread! What's happening to DL?

If nothing else, please tell me we never again see nails-on-blackboard bolshie Daisy.

Some of those mouse-women downstairs were tedious.

Quite big tits on Lulu in r46's pic

It’s inevitable with these reviews being quite positive and the interest for this sequel definitely being there that there will be at least one more chapter - whether a 3rd film or a limited series type event. Also, I would not be surprised if Maggie already filmed a scene to be used in such an enterprise as a flashback (ala Meryl in Mamma Mia 2). Either way, I’d be willing to bet she will appear in whatever the continuation of this ultimately is, even if her character is apparently dead.

How many plot twists will involve the new Cousin Oliver?

I'm surprised that Gregson's return actually was not part of either movie. I guess the movie assumes you haven't necessarily watched the series, but almost everyone did.

I mean yes, they made the implication that he was killed, but he did not die on screen, so.....

Told ya the class resentment runs deep.

R97

Lady Edith at the time had more pressing matters. Her fancy man left her in the club facing potential scandal and social ruin. Served her right after being so beastly towards Lady Mary and her little problem, and LM could barely contain her delight at first when shoe was on other foot. Never one not to kick a person when they're down is our Lady Mary, especially when it came to Edith.

Gorgeous ginger actor Charles Edwards (Michael Gregson ) suffered from same fate as others on DA; the show went on too long and Mr. Edwards had other commitments so couldn't devote amount of time Fellowes wanted, so the character was abruptly written out.

DA introduced then suddenly dropped characters and plot lines all the time. Most galling was the heir who turned up as a wounded solider when DA was turned into a WWI hospital. Lady Edith recognizes him, but that plot was snuffed out rather quickly.

This latest DA "film" is nothing more than a jumped up Christmas special. Fellowes et al can extract more money from punters by releasing it as a movie (especially to worldwide market), so there you are...

R121

I'll take Daisy over never ending drama that is Bates and that tedious (now) wife of his Anna. Pair of them should have had their own show; every other episode it was something with one or pair of them.

Bates was played by a wannabe-Alan-Bates and had a limp in some scenes but not others.

Any story line about Master Bates??? Does he go to prison as well?

Bates also didn't have a limp when he was walking around the prison yard with no walking stick.

He also was able to lift a paralyzed Matthew into bed but not able to lift a tray and hand it to Gwen without dropping it and the silverware on it.

Downton rapidly reached the 'Oh, who cares?' phase when it came to consistency and continuity. Small wonder Maggie was so rude about it.

Irish Times for the win; best review yet.

There's nothing left to wring out of this tired franchise that is Downton Abbey. Fellowes will do another if pushed (more like just asked and offered buckets more of money), and certain ensemble cast members will show up (actors have to eat and feed mouths to0 you know...), but even with a series that has always played fast and lose with historical times what lies ahead is not very pleasant.

Britain entered its version of Great Depression (called Great Slump) in 1930, and while effects were felt somewhat unevenly, things weren't always rosy.

Britain declared war on Germany in 1939, just ten years after this "New Era" of Downton Abbey takes place.

What will Lady Mary say to DA being fully or partially taken over by British government for military use?

Will Lady Edith and her husband become a Nazi sympathizers falling under the spell of "Herr Hitler"?

Will Daisy become a spy for Nazi Germany?

What Thomas the butler? Wil he finally get some action thanks to flood of Yanks arriving in UK?

I think they have reached a difficult trick with the funniest character irretrievable. I wouldn't put it past Fellowes to try to dramatize the abdication, although how you cheer that up I don't know. He might, however, play up the 1937 coronation. There's lots of ermine and sequins in that.

Mary Crawley would be 48 years old in 1939, the outbreak of the war. George Crawley, the only heir, would be 18 years old - ripe for service. If they started shooting in 2024, Dockery would be 42. Not that far off her character's age. It would be a dilemma cliffhanger if they tackled the war - back to the heir at risk. It is a great canvas with lots of actual drama, in the right hands. But that's no longer the nature of the franchise or the creative space occupied by Uncle Julian.

Throwing caution to the wind and playing devil's advocate.... Taking DA into WWII, George Crawley is either called up or negotiates a commission. Instead of a relatively cozy posting at say MOI he's sent to Europe and promptly killed. That leaves Crawley family right back where DA started no male heir.

Lady Edith's byblow from Mr. Gregson is still a "ward", not officially a Crawley, is that correct? That would leave daughter of Sybil and Tom Branson. All titles except those which allow remainder to females would become extinct. Sybil Branson and Marigold Gregson would stand in line to inherit the lot, though with yet more heavy taxation coming for wealthy in UK post WWII, how much of it they would see and get to keep is another matter.

It must have been magic to be around when music like this was being created and performed.

I like your scenario but is the entail still in place? Some obscure male relative of Matthew Crawley’s?

I'd add R137 a twist: Mary Crawley says fuck this and gets her Act of Parliament changing or eliminating the entail and Downton is hers, all hers! Or, there simply could be no male heir. That happens. Almost all titles have gone extinct at one point or another, recreated for others, later.

Or she could open Lady Mary's Death Vagina Brothel. Services for men, but marketed to their unhappy wives.

Will Marigold still be "special"? Will they have found a more attractive, more talented child actor?

The other kid looked like she was born with her brains scrambled.

[quote]It would be a dilemma cliffhanger if they tackled the war - back to the heir at risk. It is a great canvas with lots of actual drama, in the right hands. But that's no longer the nature of the franchise or the creative space occupied by Uncle Julian.

What made Downton interesting initially was that it focused on the changing way of life among the aristocracy that arose from huge social and economic changes that were occurring during the period leading up to and immediately after WWI.

Retreading the search for an heir would be as bereft of creativity as most of the later stories have been.

Where WWII would make sense is the seismic shifts in British society that occurred and the likely loss of Downton. Most of the great houses were struggling financially.

Who else desperately wants to see Downton: 1974? In this spinoff, Lady Mary and Lady Edith are widows. They are forced to share a genteel-but-run-down Kensington flat in greatly reduced circumstances (due to entail laws, taxes, and assorted postwar times-are-changing nonsense).

In a cramped apartment awkwardly blending remnants of 60s mod and 19th-century heirlooms, Mary and Edith learn to live -- and love! -- in the world that's left to them.

Lots of great houses survived the onslaught of taxation. Chatsworth, Alnwick (which is Edith's place in the show), Holkham, Harewood, Hatfield, Blenheim are all still estates that include or are fully private homes (if all open to the public), though the ownership structure may be preferentially designed (Chatsworth is owned by the Chatsworth Trust and the Duke pays rent on the rooms he occupies in the house, but he can afford is... he's worth about 500M pounds.) The Earl of Leciester, hasn't made The Times Rich List in awhile... but in 2008 they were worth about 70M pounds and that place is open to the public. I guess 70M won't let you keep a big house going. You've gotta be rich like the Duke of Westminster (billions) to live privately.

Downton could have scraped through... Highclere, which is Downton, has. But the dilemma for Fellowes is all the stories that lie ahead are grim and not disposed to superficial or sentimental. The Downton will solider on has been done to death. He can only confine himself to silly, happy nursery stories like movies and French villas. Downton stopped having any tie to drama after the first series. As soon as Matthew got his erections back, it was just happy stories and pretty dresses and how the times were changing at Downton Abbey even though they really didn't.

R144: Maggie Smith is Lady Mary Crawley Talbot Snootily Snidely, Countess of Mortem. Penelope Wilton is Edith, Marchioness of Hexham.

Madonna is Edith's funny looking bastard. Or maybe it's Kristen Wig.

I want to see the family lose their fortune and have to sell the house to The National Trust and live in the gate house. The Dowager Duchess will be seen working in the gift shop.

JUST LET HER FUCKIN DIE FFS!

as the Irish Times reports, I would happily digest Tom's cock-a-leakie

The Irish Times review was the best: funny and insightful.

I have two questions.

First, I know Julian Fellowes is laughing all the way to the bank but, if you were a writer, wouldn't you care that everybody thinks your work is so middling? I mean as a creative, an artist, if you will?

Second, do you suppose the talent is contracted to say in their interviews "Oh, the timeless and top quality writing of Julian Fellowes..." The Downton people say it, the Gilded Age people say it. His writing is not an actor's dream, surely, by any stretch of the imagination (ironic, given who we're talking about.) They must be forced to say it surely because why say the sky is green when everybody knows it's blue?

In the revival of Upstairs Downstairs set in the 1930s, the Bellamys had sold their Eaton Square house and a new, unrelated family moved in. Fellowes can crib that idea.

Cutting and pasting as we speak! Oh, that's good for Bertha on the other thing!

Downton 1974 sounds like Grey Gardens lol

Grey Gardens meets Baby Jane.

[quote] Most galling was the heir who turned up as a wounded solider when DA was turned into a WWI hospital. Lady Edith recognizes him, but that plot was snuffed out rather quickly.

IMO, that wounded soldier (face burned beyond recognition) was supposed to have been an impostor who had adopted some of Patrick Crawley's stories as his own. Edith didn't really "recognize" him, but was taken in by his attempted grift. Edith was lonely and he gave her the attention and recognition that she was starving for.

So, it made sense, to me, that the Patrick impostor came and then disappeared.

R151, the actors can't bite the hand that feeds them. As long as the actors are being hired and are making $, they won't say anything negative about Fellowes and the stupid plot lines.

If they thought the show was so stupid they shouldn't have signed on in the first place

But does anyone have any insight why the wounded WWI soldier plot was dropped? It could have been amazing.

Actually, I do wonder if maybe the plot was stolen from some Golden Age mystery or some other property and Julian was warned off.

I suspect it was dropped because everybody realized it was awful. Even by Downton standards.

It was dropped because it was stupid

I guess it would have been planned as a one and done - the story didn't last much more than an episode. The series weren't very many episodes and location shooting isn't the easiest thing. I assume all the scripts were in the can when the trucks rolled up to Highclere.

From the Downton Wiki: In 1918, Major "Patrick Gordon," a Canadian soldier recovering at Downton Abbey while it was serving as a convalescent home, claimed to be Patrick Crawley. He claimed that he had survived the Titanic sinking and was rescued from the sea, but developed amnesia and was sent to Canada since he was mistaken for a Canadian, subsequently taking his name from a gin bottle before later regaining his memory following an explosion in battle that burned him beyond recognition. He also claims that he/Patrick Crawley always loved Edith and never Mary. It is suggested by Robert's solicitor, George Murray, that Major Gordon might actually be Peter Gordon, who worked with Patrick Crawley at the Foreign Office and moved to Montreal in 1913 (which if true, would explain how he knew certain details about the Crawley family that made his story more convincing). Whether or not Major Gordon was really Patrick Crawley remains doubtful, as he left Downton soon afterward.

I didn't remember Murray making it so clear who the likely imposter was. I thought it all felt half-hearted and stupid and just a dash of this, a bit of that typical Uncle Julian.

Some insight and the usual all hail Julian... They kind of make sense of why they've embrace the twee of it all.

Michelle Dockery can bloody well thank Julian Fellowes for a much UNdeserved career. Worst actress ever, only bested by Laura Carmichael and Elizabeth McGovern.

Dockery is not a bad actress at all. McGovern was successful long before DA

Fellowes said that, if he had known that DA (TV show) was going to run as many seasons, he wouldn't have had WWI take place in Season 2 (he would have had the War happen in a later season).

IMO, it would be more interesting to go back in time, before Season 1 (i.e., before WW1). But you'd have to use different actors and that would defeat the purpose for the fans.

Julian Fellowes is a mincing prisspot. There's no straight man alive who carries on like he does. He married very late in life and then only for his wife's title. His snobbery is so ridiculous it's embarrassing. And he's an ugly cunt.

Jesus Christ! Doesn't this thing ever die? It's as bad as the Star Trek franchise.

Fee entail in UK was abolished by Law property Act of 1925. Those in place ended with last holder of such trusts. Thus current Earl Grantham would be the last fee entail beneficiary and could do with the estate whatever he wished. George Crawley could inherit the lot, or not, it all depends upon whatever current earl wishes.

We saw this in Brideshead Revisited when Lord Marchmain revised his will and explains to Julia and Charles about history of Flyte family and that the fee ential ends with him, thus he can now do what he wants with the estate. Brideshead his heir is basically disinherited far as property goes; Julia and Cordelia cop most of that lot.

Fee entail only dealt with property, titles were another matter. They are governed by the letters patent issued at time of creation.

Thus George Crawley could inherit the earldom and subsidiary titles, but earl could decide to leave the estate to one or both of his granddaughters (and or their heirs).

Plot of "smashing" fee entail was one of those early picked up and dropped on DA, and for good reason.

In law offices and courts across UK solicitors, barristers, judges and even just legal hobbyists were laughing their behinds off at that plot twist.

Fee entail wasn't just about Cora's money being "stolen" and tied to the Grantham estate. Those marriages were long basically mergers and acquisitions for both royalty, nobility and eventually wealthy and upper middle classes. No one went marching down any aisles until marriage contracts that covered all sorts of areas were negotiated and settled.

Cora would have been "settled" in that she and possibly any future children of her body received all sorts of considerations from the Grantham estate both during her marriage, and when or if she became a widow. The dowager wasn't living in that "dower house" full of servants with buckets of money just because her son liked her, it was her due as part of marriage contract between Violet (and her family) and the Grantham family.

It was possible to smash a fee entail, but then Cora would be left without less or nil legal protections or claims against Grantham estate. Her husband or his heirs could kick her to the curb with nothing more than clothes on her back.

Plot of "smashing" fee entail was one of those early picked up and dropped on DA, and for good reason.

In law offices and courts across UK solicitors, barristers, judges and even just legal hobbyists were laughing their behinds off at that plot twist.

Fee entail wasn't just about Cora's money being "stolen" and tied to the Grantham estate. Those marriages were long basically mergers and acquisitions for both royalty, nobility and eventually wealthy and upper middle classes. No one went marching down any aisles until marriage contracts that covered all sorts of areas were negotiated and settled.

Cora would have been "settled" in that she and possibly any future children of her body received all sorts of considerations from the Grantham estate both during her marriage, and when or if she became a widow. The dowager wasn't living in that "dower house" full of servants with buckets of money just because her son liked her, it was her due as part of marriage contract between Violet (and her family) and the Grantham family.

It was possible to smash a fee entail, but then Cora would be left without less or nil legal protections or claims against Grantham estate. Her husband or his heirs could kick her to the curb with nothing more than clothes on her back.

Fee entail played such a huge role in lives of upper classes it frequently became a plot device for all sorts of novels. Jane Austin's "Pride and Prejudice" is basically about a family with five daughters and no heirs. Everyone knew what would happen, estate would pass to a distant male heir who could (and often did) kick the girls and maybe widow (unless she was provided for separately), out of family home. If the daughters had no other provisions made for them say via final will of their father, that was that; they were now basically "poor". If such daughters didn't marry their options for rest of their lives were bleak. Ranks of governesses and companions were filled with such "ladies" in reduced circumstances.

Only hope in above situation was same as Julian Fellowes did get right in DA; eldest or one of the daughters married the new heir. Thus as new chatelaine she of course remained, but also might prevail upon her husband to treat any sisters kindly. This is one reason why one saw so many marriages between cousins, even first and second which isn't exactly a good thing for a family's genetic pool.

Present day Downton Abbey....the house is owned by The National Trust and run by a woke lesbian couple with green and blue hair who want to cancel the Crawleys for their elitism and classism. The great, great grandchildren of the original Crawleys have no say over what happens to the house as they signed all power over to The National Trust when the family went broke in the 50's. Maggie Smith plays the ghost of The Dowager Countess, causing trouble for said lesbians and the public who visit the house.

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Above being said RJC seems to be in running as the next James Bond in 007 franchise. Should this come true it should settle his macho hetro image issues.

Like short lived redo of "Upstairs/Downstairs", DA could do a Christmas special covering say years 1936 (Abdication Crisis), through 1939 (run up or just after UK declares war on Germany).

Such a DA could show how the Crawley family is getting on without granny and otherwise managing. It would all be a bit too much like Gosford Park I'm afraid, which goes under "been there and done that" for Julian Fellowes.

Thing is don't believe bended knee will get Matthew Goode back on DA. Thus either Lady Mary would once again be on her own, maybe by then widowed yet once more

Just have the Nazis bomb the fuckin house and destroy it and the family so I never have to hear about it again!

R97

Here's how one thing plot with Gregson should have gone....

Gregson went over to Weimar Berlin, found himself attracted to a hot young German man realized he was gay. Vastly preferring hot German dick to his certified bat shit crazy wife, and should be so Lady Edith.

Of course the humiliation for Lady Edith would have been too much to endure. She'd already been thrown over by a few men, and finding out her fancy man Gregson was a " man like that" would likely have killed her. So someone came up with that whole Brown Shirts attack nonsense.

r173 What is a weekend. and why are there common people in my home on these weekends? Boo!

Violet, dowager Countess of Grantham has quite the past. First there was that dalliance with Russian nobleman, now a French one pops up who may or may not have something to do with her son.

No wonder the dowager was so understanding about Lady Edith's little problem. Like Mama says to Eunice when latter explains she "had to get married", dowager was like "I get your drift, welcome to the club...".

They already did the Granny Has A Past bit during the run of the show, sad they have to return to it.

Who else was going to inherit that villa in France? Without that plot device entire Gratham clan would have remained in England with the more senior members moaning about that invasion by show business people.

Besides granny deserved to go out on a high note. One of her staff finding the dowager dead would be sort of boring.

Last time Grantham family went anywhere IIRC was that trip up north to Scotland.

It would be considered rather odd and certainly not good for future of Crawley dynasty that even after marrying again Lady Mary failed to breed another son. One sister is dead, and the other is hopeless, so entire thing rests upon George Crawley growing up, marrying and producing heirs.

On another note in 1923 the Fifth Earl of Carnarvon died (family that owns Highclere Castle), his heir the 6th Earl of Carnarvon had to sell up many family treasures to pay the staggering death duties due on his father's estate. Again entail was no more by 1925 so the sixth earl was free to do with estate what he wished as it couldn't all be placed into another newly created trust. So family held a grand auction of art and jewels to raise funds for Inland Revenue payments.

If there is yet another DA series, Fellowes would have to address this one way or another. Current Earl Grantham cannot live forever, and by 1930's or 1940's he'd quite old, and his death would trigger estate taxes coming due.

You've definitely got a bee in your bonnet, R167!

Did Julian take your title as "Miss Prisspot. 1987"?

The new Downton Abbey is a home for the special needs called Down Syndrome Abbey

r185 A home where disabled aristocrats can be hidden away from their families. Maggie Smith will be the grumpy head matron

r184 clearly has never seen Jullian Fellowes

OK, R187, I'll take your advice and propose R167 as Miss Wannabe Prisspot while Mr Julian Fellowes is Miss $10 million Rich Prisspot.

r188 IS Julian Fellowes

"Downton Abbey" Is, was and will always be just a big grand "Night Time Soap". And a fabulous one at that.

It took the present Duke of Devonshire 17 years to pay off his tax bill for death duties after his father died in 1950. About 1 in every six country houses were demolished after 1900, in part because it would come to a choice between preserving what money you had and keeping the house and estate. So alot of arrangements were made... gifted to the National Trust, alternate ownership structure (Chatsworth is owned by the Chatsworth Trust, which I can't find any evidence to suggest has anybody involved with it who isn't family) and the UK government (probably conservative) changed the law to provide for the transfer of assets exempt from inheritance tax if it is done so seven years prior to the death of the grantor. (If you've ever been caught in the Queen Mother was broke wars, one camp holds she had little cash in hand at her death because of this kind of estate planning and the other just that the old lady was broke like poor Mabel the widow up the road.)

The Devonshires/Cavendishes are pretty fascinating in their own right... and still loaded.... Times Rich list 2021 said 895M pounds.

DL doesn't like links to Sotheby's for whatever odd reason but if you're curious, Google Deborah, Duchess of Devonshire: The Last of the Mitford Sisters Sotheby's... the auction results from her estate sale are still online... it's glimpse into another world... from the every day to the incredible... a photograph of Lucien Freud painting that famous portrait of the Queen (with the Queen in the photo) that went for 10,000 pounds, a brooch, 62,500 pounds.

And that's what they could bear to part with.

R191

Quite right!

At first people were licking their chops in glee at aristocrats going broke for death duties and other taxes. But after a while saner heads began looking about at what was being lost. One by one architectural treasures were seeing roofs taken off and left to rot and ruin, this if not just outright demolished.

National Trust became heavily involved as post WWII Britain was seeing rather large numbers of great homes and country houses otherwise would vanish.

.. The difference in the 20th century was that the acts of demolition were often acts of desperation and last resort; a demolished house could not be valued for probate duty. A vacant site was attractive to property developers, who would pay a premium for an empty site that could be rebuilt upon and filled with numerous small houses and bungalows, which would return a quick profit. This was especially true in the years immediately following World War II, when Britain was desperate to replace the thousands of homes destroyed. Thus, in many cases, the demolition of the ancestral seat, strongly entwined with the family's history and identity, followed the earlier loss of the family's London house.[19]

A significant factor, which explained the seeming ease with which a British aristocrat could dispose of his ancestral seat, was the aristocratic habit of only marrying within the aristocracy and whenever possible to a sole heiress. This meant that by the 20th century, many owners of country houses often owned several country mansions.[20] Thus it became a favoured option to select the most conveniently sited (whether for privacy or sporting reasons), easily managed, or of greatest sentimental value; fill it with the choicest art works from the other properties; and then demolish the less favoured. Thus, one solution not only solved any financial problems, but also removed an unwanted burden.

The Crawleys (who seem to have had unusually good luck at finding spare king's ransoms as needed) have one last cash cow to milk: Uncle Harold. Unless Uncle Julian wipes him out in the crash and depression, he's got to leave it to somebody and unless he married a showgirl, that would probably mean his nieces. Come to that, I think Shirley Maclaine had her income from a life interest - no money of her own but revenue generated from assets that would pass to (guessing) Pa Levenson's heirs (guessing Co-wah and Ha-wold) when Martha no longer had need of income. So maybe there's two happy coinicidences left to keep them ermine and a footman or two.

But after that, those Crawleys are just going to have to make Downton pay its own way.

Were the The Crawleys considered posh?

The Crawleys were posh.

Were the The Crawleys considered posh?

What do you fuckin think?

Who is Uncle Harold??

Also, if Matthew Goode doesn’t want to appear in the DA films (can’t blame him), why don’t they recast his role?

Uncle Harold was played in one episode, I think, by Paul Giamatti. He was Cora's uncle and Martha (Shirley Creme Brulee)'s younger brother.

R200

Because bloody DA needs to end!

What is good of casting a replacement for DA when it isn't entirely sure there will be another?

Besides as we are seeing with this latest installment Lady Mary on her own (yet again) is always a good plot device. For an ice cold bitch she's never at a loss for male suitors.

DA keeps chugging on but no one ever knows will there or won't there be another. Meanwhile many actors simply move on and aren't available.

I am so gay that when the first movie trailer came out and they announced the Queen was coming to Downton Abbey, I got a wee giddy. It made me smile.

So is Violet dead or alive at the end of this movie?

The Crawleys were rich but lived in the sticks, it seems. About a 3-hour train ride to London.

R205

Everyone did, that was the point.

Peers and gentlemen had country estates which not only produced a good part of their income, but where they often were truly "lord of the manor" in that they basically ran or heavily influenced things politically. Thus nobility and landed gentry tended to remain in the country for good part of year.

There was also hunting (in particular fox) and shooting parties. No gentleman would leave his estates during various hunting seasons, so both Parliament and London's social season was scheduled around spring though early summer.

Consider main fox hunting season started with the Opening Meet which normally took place during the last week in October or during the first week in November, often on a Saturday and ran until the 1st May although most hunts finished in March and early April.

Peers and landed gentry went down to London for politics. Their wives busied themselves with serious matter of arranging marriages for their children.

Game seasons in UK. You can see for good part of year Englishmen (and later Englishwomen) were always shooting at something..

Fellowes doesn't do much with hunting or shooting parties with DA. However Gosford Park revolves around a shooting party.

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Between the duties expected of one during one’s lifetime, and the duties exacted from one after one’s death, land has ceased to be either a profit or a pleasure. It gives one position, and prevents one from keeping it up. That’s all that can be said about land.

The costs of filming a proper shoot would be high given the logistics. It would be wet, which is hard to shoot in, you'd need lots of extras, and lots of animals (dogs and horses) to make it look authentic. I always thought Downton's stabs at big events were pretty slight. Mr. Pamuk's hunt was pretty good for a crowd. The blackmail hunt was slim. The Christmas shoot was lame. Though Gosford's shoot was a small crowd too. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe shoots were smaller affairs and hunts bigger (I've seen a modern day hunt off in the UK on Boxing Day and it's a lot of people and alot of horses and A LOT of dogs. Cool and noisy and chaotic but you wouldn't want to film it if you didn't have to.)

R210 have you attended a real hunt?

" About a 3-hour train ride to London."

Three hours by train is nothing. Far better than nearly entire day when only via horses (with or without carriages). Depending upon distance traveled that travel time could be reach a over a day as well.

Trains, especially as they got faster along with motor cars made journey's quicker, but didn't always solve one issue with country house visits; certain people never knew when to leave.

Hosts didn't wish to be rude, but invited guest or guest simply remained longer than they should, wolfing down free food and drink, writing endless letters on stationary, etc...

When travel took ages it was expected once they arrived guests would remain for several days or more. Faster and easier travel made "weekends" at a country house more feasible.

Why did the Crawleys always say they were going "up to London" when in fact it would have been "down" to London?

IMHO 1980's film "The Shooting Party" was one of the best at capturing such events of Edwardian England. Set in 1913 WW1 would soon arrive and smash much of that world to bits.

Will agree with above poster, no modern British (or other) production today does justice to things like period dramas with events shooting parties and so forth. It's about all they can do with period correct wardrobe and sets. Budgets are just too tight for endless amounts of extras, horses, dogs, not to mention dozens upon dozens of live birds.

R213

Bit archaic but never the less quite common then and now to say "up to London", this regardless of one's present geographic location in relation to the place. It reflects London's importance as a capital city, but also denotes common reference to railway lines leading into London as "up", and those going away as "down".

Neither Oxford nor Cambridge are very far north, but students constantly refer going to either as "up", this even when they are coming from points well north. To be "sent down" is expelled from Oxford or Cambridge even again if home wasn't south (London), but well north.

R211, I saw one head off on Boxing Day, 2019, but I didn't ride.

R216 good, I think bunts are wicked and cruel

That's what the chickens think about foxes but lets not open up that war!

Is that why they called her Miss Bunting?

The only thing I ever took away from DA was that I want Allen Leech to sit on my face.....

Is Violet Crawley dead?!

Is Mrs Patmore still fat?!

Is Mary widowed or divorced?

R220 Ditto.

And even when he was a little chubby. I'm not a gung ho power top but dang, when his ass plumped up I wanted to ram those thick cheeks until he moaned for mercy.

They should pave the way for a Mary/Charles Blake relationship.

Clearly Matthew Goode only did it for the paycheck.

And to suck Allen Leech's cock.

R222

Lady Mary remarried after her first husband popped his cogs. If Fellowes continues to crank out more DA "movies" or whatever Lady Mary may once again be widowed as Matthew Goode doesn't seem to be truly interested in returning.

Official reason why MG is absent from current DA movie was scheduling conflicts with other projects. But given hints dropped in this current installment of DA things could be read as Lady Mary is going to be once again on her own.

How that would happen might prove interesting. Having already been widowed, being so again does rather cast Lady Mary in sort of a Lady Macbeth shadow. Being dumped (divorce) would be a scandal, but not so much by 1940 or whatever future decade another DA installment is set.

In any event to lose one husband might be regarded as a misfortune. To lose two looks like carelessness.

"Women like us fall into two categories - dragons or fools. You must make sure they think of you as a dragon".

[quote]Why did the Crawleys always say they were going "up to London" when in fact it would have been "down" to London?

My Dear, the Crawleys never went down, well perhaps the Dowager Countess of Grantham.

Didn't Mary have a second spawn?

R226 A very unflattering picture.

R214 A rather odd small film, but made much sadder by James' presence.

Matthew Goode in his own words explains his absence from latest DA installment.

R230

Thought "The Shooting Party" was brilliant. James Mason wasn't "sad" at all IMHO.

R229

No, LM has just the one sprog, George.

Granted her first husband died suddenly and unexpectedly, but one would think considering previous drama with lack of heirs for Crawley family would have spurred LM to try again with her new husband when finally remarrying.

R228

Oh I don't know...

Isn't that what Mr. Pamuk was proposing he and Lady Mary get up to as a way of having sex but still leaving her intact for a future husband?

It never happened of course since the poor bastard died before things went too far.

She has a daughter with Talbot, Caroline.

I thought Mary had a second kid. Only because in the final TV episode when Bertie and Edith get back together Mary tells someone she's pregnant again but doesn't announce as to not take any attention away from Edith.

Lesley Nicol (Mrs. Patmore) actually followed Dan Stevens and few others from DA cast and moved to USA.

[quote] Isn't that what Mr. Pamuk was proposing he and Lady Mary get up to as a way of having sex but still leaving her intact for a future husband?

I thought Pamuk was proposing anal sex.

Stand corrected, totally forgot about Caroline Crawley.

Never mind and carry on!

R232 James' appearance made me sad.

I knew he would soon by dying. But I'm glad he got to appear in the film because Paul Scofield was such a cold actor but James made the character much more sympathetic and poignant.

R241

Ok, got it!

Keep going back to "The Shooting Party" if for nothing else to gaze at Edward Fox. Can't explain, but there's just something so very attractive about the man.

Edward Fox is interesting.

Lots of people don't like him. They joke about all the muscles in his face. Seems to specialise in very unsympathetic roles. A few crazy roles but he comes across as very sane in that interview he gave in London in recent years about that 'jackal' film.

The Shooting Party is really good

Edward Fox was hot as fuck when younger. We're talking comfortably into middle age.

There's just something about the man aside from his looks. He demeanor while always the perfect gentleman also suggests a bit of cruelty. Sort of man that once he got you upstairs or anywhere else alone, showed a very different side.

This is that interview I mentioned at R244.

He's wearing a beard from some Checkov play.

He's very clear about film-making and Zinnemann.

Do any of these Brit shows ever hire American actors to play Americans? The American accents are always off. Specifically, the Black singer and the two American servants that came with Cora's mother and brother. Okay but off in a strange way.

I thought the singer's American accent was good. The female servant's American accent was over-enunciated, though.

R248

Probably comes down to in some what what it always does; British actors union not wanting floods of Americans taking roles in UK productions. This goes both ways as union in USA is equally protective of stage, television and movie roles going to Brits.

To get round this many Brits just move to USA (Dan Stevens wasn't first) if they can secure some sort of visa. American actors doing same by going to UK is not as much IIRC. Probably because there is less work for "American" actors with that accent, and few of them can do decent British. OTOH British accents and actors are in high demand in USA. Hence one reason Equity and others push to either keep them out or limit numbers.

Select British actors make quite a good living doing voice over (Jack Davenport is one) work for commercials. Those bits can be filmed in UK or elsewhere so no need to arrive on US shores.

Oh and union pay for UK actors isn't anywhere near as generous compared to USA. Again hence reason so many British actors either pack up and move to USA, or try and negotiate roles/work.

"First, I know Julian Fellowes is laughing all the way to the bank but, if you were a writer, wouldn't you care that everybody thinks your work is so middling? I mean as a creative, an artist, if you will?"

Downton Abbey is a creation of this modern age, it is largely for consumption outside of UK. American and other audiences lap up these sort of period dramas, especially about "upstairs and downstairs" sort. Thus they aren't too concerned that Mr. Fellowes isn't doing something like quality of "The Shooting Party" or other British period screen dramas of old.

Fellowes already scored one period hit with "Gosford Park". That has lead him to be considered one of the modern "experts" for modern British period dramas. Never mind Fellowes plays fast and lose with facts, content, plot lines and so forth; Downton Abbey is a huge commercial success. That sadly is more and more what matters now even in UK.

To be fair neither British television nor film studios have sort of budgets they day say through 1980's. Historical period dramas are expensive to produce, so certain things might be done halfway. Just as in USA increasingly focus for GB is the international market, that is where you make your money.

Other issue at least for British television series is securing talent for long run.

Unlike USA where a pilot episode is done and if thing takes off there's a rush to crank out a season of episodes later, British television series are shot all in one go usually. This suits actors and others because they are free to take other jobs. DA totally upset that apple cart by being a huge surprise success. Julian Fellowes then had to go back to key actors asking them to sign on for another contract. Some said "yes", others did so just the once, few said "no". It's rather difficult to run a long term television drama when main cast members keep leaving.

You people keep on talking as 'Julian Fellowes' is a writer. He is a commodity and brand name.

He runs of factory with 40 assistants assigned to write storylines for each of 20 characters. Those 20 characters have to have something happening in each episode.

The Julian Fellowes factory looks like this—

Besides dragging things out, other problem with DA is people keep attempting to make it into something it truly isn't

As noted previously this "movie" release of DA is nothing more than what ordinarily would be a Christmas special in UK. Other than extracting more money from franchise there really isn't a compelling reason to release this movie in theatres IMHO.

Am guessing to keep what's left of main ensemble cast returning Fellowes must offer more and more money. Those funds must come from somewhere, so there you are...

Pity of it is once DA finally dies out fear we won't see another period (1900's to before WWI and or years between the wars) again for sometime. DA has just done the thing to death no one else will bother for sometime.

With the exception of "Beauty & The Beast", and let's face it he was unrecognizable until the last 30 seconds was anything Dan Steven's has done since been worth leaving Downton? It wasn't like it was a 28 episode a season commitment.

Dan Stevens certainly gets himself talked about, that's something anyway.

Dan Stevens is in a new production called "Gaslight" with Julia Roberts and Sean Penn.

24 April 2022 interview with the Guardian, Mr. Stevens seems quite content with his decision to leave DA.

Catching up with a few actors who left DA. Storm clouds gathering seem to indicate Matthew Goode won't be returning.

Goode's character is a cypher anyway. It was concocted to settle Mary in the last season and provide for a happy conclusion, especially if there was no movie. The corn in their last few scene was terrible, with this breathless Nick and Nora Charles delivery.... I thought the actors were taking the piss.

He looks like a big ol gurl at r257

Maybe, R260, but he was gorgeous in DA.

Matthew Goode hasn't been gorgeous since Match/Point.

Weren't there rumors of Matthew Goode not being well liked amongst the DA cast?

Also, Allen looking lovely on the red carpet sans wifey.

Matthew Goode may have looked the part but he was dreadfully dull on DA.

To me he only seemed to really come alive when he played the louche bisexual Lord Snowden.

oh he was great on Dancing on the Edge. It looked like he was going to be a continuing character on The Good Wife but >>poof<< his character disappeared and he was never mentioned again.

The HELLO article didn’t mention the first character to bail—the sour ladies maid—who decamped for Benidorm. She was actually a great character, she and Thomas teamed up but she was definitely the brains and a better actor as well.

Actress Siobhan Finneran (O'Brien the evil lady's maid) was third main cast member to depart, after Dan Stevens (Matthew Crawley) and Jessica Brown Findlay (Lady Sybil).

Ms. Finneran was also doing other projects, but main reason she left was because having signed on to do three series, that was all she wanted. When her contract ended, that was it, and bended knee couldn't change her mind.

Think at some point Ms. Finneran may have been unhappy with how truly evil her character turned out to be; causing her mistress to miscarry of an unborn child is pretty wicked. More so when it turned out O'Brien had gotten wrong end of stick and the countess wasn't planning on sacking her at all.

Did that girl who played the Daughter get any work after she was fired for her leaked sex tape where she was begging her boyfriend to fart in her face?

Garbo Laughs!

Goode Giggles!

Siobhan Finneran was great as O'Brien. I do think there was more to her leaving than only wanting to do 3 seasons. I think her character was great and I don't know why actors get caught up in the morality of their characters.

Side note: I do think the Granthams, IRL, would have sacked O'Brien after Cora's slip and fall / miscarriage. Cora knew that O'Brien left that soap on the floor right outside the bathtub.

another ridiculous plot point from fellowes, how the hell did o'brien know exactly where to place soap so that out to dozen of places cora would put her foot on it.

and would a slip on a bar of soap, where you probably fall on a well padded ass, cause a miscarriage?

i had to throw myself down a fucking staircase to get one

No, Cora did not know soap was left out on purpose and by whom. As she was recovering Cora went on about how wonderful O'Brien was to her, a great maid, blessing, etc...

To her credit O'Brien truly was remorseful and her deed tormented her for rest of time on at DA. It wasn't just she killed the heir, but an innocent baby out of spite and hatred.

Remember early on O'Brien and the countess didn't exactly get on. The former resented her mistress on some level, and latter warned O'Brien she was "sitting very near the window's edge", and that if she didn't pull up her socks she would be out.

R271, not trying to start a fight, but if you rewatch the episode, IIRC, O'Brien and Cora do have a conversation about the soap right before the slip and fall.

R272

O'Brien overheard her ladyship and the dowager discussing a "new" maid. Later while in bath countess asked O'Brien how long it would take to break in a new lady's maid. Cora drops soap and O'Brien goes to fetch it. While bending down we see there are two bars of soap. O'Brien hands one to her ladyship, and kicks the other in harm's way. The rest as they say is history.

Dowton Abbey is comfort viewing. It's the kind of stuff you watch while holding a mug with hot tea or hot cocoa.

Cora was relaxing in that bath, soaping up her boobs, when that dastardly O'Brien bugger caused her to fall arse-over-tit and lose his Lordship's baby!

To be fair to O'brien, she nursed Cora through the Spanish flu in order to atone for the soap thing.

Yes, O'Brian redeemed herself and even fell out with Thomas.

What a waste! I've been wanting Lord Grantham to breed me for ages!

Finneran works constantly.

I hope I get to see a passionate SEX SCENE with Tom and I get to see dick and ass

Short of Lord Grantham having a gay fling, at this point I'd be more interested in a "The Gilded Age" movie.

Finneran was smart to leave in any case because she saw that the arc of her character was complete. Nothing could top what she'd already done. If only several of the other actors would bow out so graciously.

And being a working character actor and not someone fixated on stardom like the younger Stevens and Brown, I can only imagine she really didn't leave DA with the expectation of Hollywood coming a calling.

[quote] Finneran was smart to leave in any case because she saw that the arc of her character was complete

The character couldn't have an 'arc' because it was a one-note character similar to a pantomime villain.

That's true, r283, and I knew as I wrote it that "character arc" was the wrong term. I should have just written that "she went about as fer as she could go."

Hugh Bonneville looks like he's had some "freshening" done.

Hugh Bonneville, like David Morse, is one of those men who became much more attractive with age. Both looked quite nebbish in their younger days.

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Hugh seems to have stopped drinking, lost some weight and definitely tightened things up.

R283 O'brien wasn't that one-note, she had times where she showed compassion, as well as her guilt over causing Cora's fall. She may have been more pantomime villain if played by a lesser actress

If you look at Siobhan Finneran's IMDB page, she seems super busy. I swear, sometimes I watch TV, and suddenly she shows up, and I'm like "Siobhan, stop stalking me!". She's everywhere!

IIRC, O'Brien tried to warn Thomas off plunging his savings into buying a hoard of black market flour, sugar and other rationed WWI goods. Thomas had big dreams of getting into black market game himself and as such wouldn't be told. O'Brien was correct in that Thomas's mates sold him bags of plaster and other substances instead, as Mrs. Patamore and Daisy found out when they tried to bake cakes with the stuff.

Thomas was of course gutted, and now very much poorer for his adventure. IIRC this was beginning or shortly after when O'Brien and Thomas began going their separate ways. Previously they were close as any catty gay and his frau pal could be.....

Best comeback line from O'Brien to Thomas....

O'Brien was at a bit of sewing/mending which she was having difficulty. Thomas made some quip about her hands getting old or something. O'Brien said she still could give Thomas a slap if he didn't watch out.

In [italic]Keeping Up With the Granthams,[/italic] the reanimated 180-year-old Dowager gets head-to-toe plastic surgery, develops an obsession with tanning and hair extensions, affects an Essex accent, and rechristens herself as "Chloe Gemma Chantelle." Watch as she gets knee-walking drunk at Aintree and throws herself at the men of [italic]Geordie Shore.[/italic]

Downton Abbey: Carson! I Shrunk the Crawleys!

If Uncle Julian had a sense of humour he'd do a third movie where O'Brien returns as wife to a 300 year old Duke and they stay as guests at Downton. Hilarity ensues, particularly when Thomas gets jealous over O'Brien's tiara.

I'm just gonna say it: I never liked Carson.

I still want to know how Earl Grantham knew Thomas is gay. And who told Lady Mary and Carson?

What are Bates and the Missus up to? More shits and giggles?

I could not stand the Carson character either. He was always “performing” the role of butler. I know his background was in vaudeville so yes, it was a performance but it was so OTT. Of course I’m comparing him to Mr Hudson who ruled that household without being pompous.

There was some big dinner at Downton and Carson became ill. I can’t remember the details but O’Brien stepped in and helped serve dinner. That’s a huge come down for a ladies maid but she actually volunteered to help “for the good of the family”. Like, on one hand she was bitter about her lot in life and on the other hand, she didn’t want to see the family gossiped about because the meal service was lacking. She was an interesting character.

[quote]She was an interesting character.

Sorry, R298. An early series accident on my part. Hasn't really happened since I don't think.

It is insane that a household as huge as Downton Abbey would be so lacking in butlers and footmen that a ladies maid would ever have had to serve a meal, particularly a dinner with important guests.

" Later that year, when asked by the Radio Times how her character's abrupt exit would be handled, Finneran retorted: "I'm hoping she's flung off the roof of the Abbey" "

R296, you mean ol' Gimpy McCanewalker and his martyr of a wife? Will they still meet for weepy conversations in that shoe-polishing room? (Did estates actually have rooms dedicated to polishing shoes? That one was as busy as Penn Station.)

Hopefully they both die in a greasefire, graphically depicted.

As an aside, the idea that Scotland Yard would devote thousands of man-hours to investigating the death of some nobody who a witness thought might have been pushed into traffic.... even with all the competition, the subplot about Green's death might just be the dumbest of all.

^Hated them, too. Well, him. Anna was alright.

LOL @ O'Brien's roof remark. I guess she's not coming back.

R302... yes. The Boot Room. Seriously.

The Boot Room ... wasn't that the unsuccessful annex of Boots & Saddle that they opened on West off Christopher?

R298

Only episode recall that Carson was ill occurred when Spanish Flu arrived (in 1919 a bit late, but that's DA for you), at Downton Abbey causing butler, Lavinia and Cora to fall ill with the virus.

Lady Grantham had a really bad case and O'Brien was busy nursing her ladyship (largely still out of guilt about causing that misarrange), so hardly think she would have volunteered to wait at table. That and long as a lady's maid it is doubtful O'Brien would even know where to begin.

Anna, IIRC may have offered to help out at table, and she would have known what to do. In end Mr. Moseley is called in (much to his delight in chance to prove himself), to replace Carson. He promptly gets plastered and passes out before dinner is over.

Again IIRC Anna didn't actually wait at table (that would have been scandalous), but helped behind scenes to enable Mr. Moseley and footmen cope.

In Victorian and Edwardian Britain from royal houses on down to nobility serving at dinner was strictly for male servants. Believe it was Edward VII both as monarch and Prince of Wales refused to dine at any house where females (maids) served dinner. This was covered in original "Upstairs/Downstairs" where "Edward VII" was coming to dine at Eaton Place, but house was short male staff. Rose (parlour maid) offers to help wait at table, and Mr. Hudson angrily shoots down idea. Reminding Rose and the others females do not serve at table, and everyone knew HM's feelings on that matter.

As to R300's post; Spanish Flu hit Downton Abbey piling onto woes caused by WWI. In real life able bodied men of all sorts from serving class to nobility were in short supply. Having gone off to war or otherwise engaged, or dead, or maimed. Downton Abbey in a rare bit of historical accuracy reflected this in that they were short male staff.

Years between the wars saw a change out of necessity. Females (maids) began waiting at table thanks in good part due to the "servant problem". Many men died during WWI, and or returned physically/mentally unfit for any sort of work. Those that remained largely fled domestic service for factories and other work. Maids were a bit easier to find, so there you are.

In Julian Fellowes other period drama (Gosford Park) there you found good number of male staff. Besides the butler (Alan Bates) most others were older men employed as valets.

Elizabeth McGovern's husband Simon Curtis directed this movie.

[Quote]believe it was Edward VII both as monarch and Prince of Wales refused to dine at any house where females (maids) served dinner

Fucking weirdo. Why? Did he think they had cooties or something?

When does it stream? A) it's 2022 and B) I'd like to see it out of curiosity (partner and I have a bit of drinking/sex game planned) but I'm not getting COVID over this turkey so won't go to theater.

Supposedly, Fellowes took it personally when actors decided they didn't want to do an additional season. Dan Stevens dying & shown on-camera with blood coming from his head. Sybil looked horrible in her last few episodes. Yes, she was in childbirth, but she did look awful. O'Brien disappears with little explanation.

Was Sybil written out because Fellowes wanted a dramatic story or did the actress want to leave?

Actress had other plans.

She's always said in interviews she said three years and done. She was young, at the start of her career. You can't blame her. She's done a number of things... quite entertaining in a thing on some streamer called Harlots. Terrific voice. Married with a child now, I think.

Siobahn Finneran works constantly. Leaving Downton Abbey was a good idea for Happy Valley alone, excellent show and an incredible performance she gave in it.

[quote]I'm just gonna say it: I never liked Carson.

I always found his character insufferable. He had an awfully big stick up his ass for someone who had been a vaudeville comic.

R311 she was quietly fired after that video of her begging for her boyfriend to fart on her was leaked and making fun of Downton, saying "Come on, fuck Lady Sybil's minge!"

I also heard she got shitcanned from DA because of that nasty video that was hacked from her phone.

ewwwwwww

Dame Maggie allegedly approached JBF and asked her "What does one do when one rims?"

Saw it today. It was basically exactly what I expected: not exactly thrilling, but fun nonetheless.

- I've never bought Mary's love for Henry. I wonder if the real reason for his absence is that once the passion wore off, they realised they didn't actually like each other very much and decided to live largely separate lives. Of course, Mary would be too proud to admit this to her family, especially Edith.

- Violet seemed far too hearty on her deathbed. Surely she would have been in a much worse condition than that? Seemed very sanitised.

- For Barrow, Dominic West is a hell of a comedown from the hot royal valet from the last film.

- Fellowes really hasn't known what to do with the Bates family for the films. They were very much sidelined again. Not that I'm complaining, I always found their various miseries tedious to watch.

- I think we can safely say that's the end. Everything was tied up ridiculously neatly.

That is so not the end. $$$$$$$$!

When a film loses money, [italic]that's[/italic] the end!

[quote]Violet seemed far too hearty on her deathbed. Surely she would have been in a much worse condition than that? Seemed very sanitised.

How ridiculous. So unrealistic.

The most interesting part for me was seeing how silent films were made.

When does Branson fuck Lord Grantham?

R308

Probably had something to do with status. Footmen, valets cook, valets, and ladies’ maids, ranked below butler and housekeeper (who were highest ranked staff), while litany of other maids ( parlor maids, laundry maids, kitchen maids, nursey maids, scullery maids) , and stable grooms were last. Even within that hierarchy there were more divisions; first footman served the meat, for example, the choicest course; while the second footman served a minor sauce or side dish.

Edward VII wasn't alone in this; many if not most gentlemen of Victorian and Edwardian periods felt same way.

Rob James Collier is as fuckable as ever

R320

Damn good and about time Bates, Anna and so on were "sidelined". We saw far too much of the pair of them early on in DA. At one point was sort of hoping Bates would be hung so Anna would retreat into deep mourning somewhere

Fellowes didn't get that Christmas shoot correct either.

"On the day of the shoot, when it's Sir Richard's turn to be with Mary, they are arguing and waiting for Richard's gun man to show up. They are standing in the spot where Richard it to shoot from, but it's an impossible spot because it's in a grove of large trees. Shooting must be done out in the open where the birds can fly by. They will never fly where the canopy above is the limbs of giant trees. Matthew is in his spot out in the open and he has to walk into the grove of trees to get to them."

Again if one watches film clip above of "The Shooting Party", there things are done properly.

"Shooting, during these halcyon days for the British aristocracy, was extraordinary. Seven-day shooting parties weren’t unusual (partly for practical reason: it took much longer to get to a shoot in Scotland before the invention of the V8 Range Rover). They required multiple outfit changes, and the shoot lunches were an ordeal (for the staff), usually served al fresco on linen and china, with several courses that had to be transported and kept warm, rounded off with cheese. It was this era that also produced Britain’s top shot: the 2nd Marquess of Ripon, who supposedly holds the record for the largest bag of birds ever shot — 556,000, including 241,000 pheasants. Who says the aristocracy were idle, eh?"

IIRC one or maybe main reason O'Brien wasn't keen on the Countess of Grantham had to do with Cora being an American, and not a great English lady.

Cora often went below stairs, something Victorian and Edwardian ladies never did, and O'Brien called her ladyship out on it behind Cora's back.

It was definitely O’Brien helping serve the dinner but I didn’t mean she was at the table, she was organizing dishes somewhere in the background out of sight.

I watched a few episodes of Benidorm. It was repellent and funny at the same time.

Bates and Anna are a good example of Fellowes limited storytelling skills.

He created a sympathetic character in Bates the lame valet, suffering nobly and a voice for fairness downstairs, and a kindly, practical, good humoured character in Anna. You liked them both and rooted for them. Their love story was sweet.

Then he had no idea what to do with them so season and after season he just tied them to the railway tracks with an oncoming train. But, hey, he's loaded and people gobble it up, so who's winning?

All British country houses (and castles for that matter) have boot rooms. It goes with the damp and wet climate, riding (horses), and so forth.

See 3:18 in clip below from BBC production "the Lost Prince".

Boot room like the American "mud room" is also were damp, wet, muddy, soiled things go when people came in from out of doors. Boots, mackintoshes, wellies, hats, those sort of things.

But Boot Rooms are not where shoes were polished and repaired.

[quote] All British country houses (and castles for that matter) have boot rooms. It goes with the damp and wet climate, riding (horses), and so forth.

Seems like the downstairs people spent an inordinate amount of time cleaning boots, though.

Well, there was a lot of horse and dog shit.

R336

If you have ever been out in the countryside of England. Wales, Scotland or Ireland you'd understand.

Most sane persons would avoid going out doors in near constant damp and moist climate much as possible. But English love their countryside and are forever going out for pleasure, sport or work. Thus it's hard to get away from mud, muck and animal manure...

OTOH you've not lived until standing out of doors watching bunch of big meaty British men play football on a damp and muddy field. See 5:20 from Jeeves and Wooster clip below...

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He ate her cooking.

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DA did pretty good box office, but down 40% from first film.

Is that a reflection of its excellence or COVIDy theater risk and the old people who will wait for the DVD anyway.

Matthew Goode is a strange actor. He's very pretty, but it's impossible to get him to warm up--he always plays cold bastards like Lord Snowden. (Although probably the best scene in the entirety of "the Crown" is when he's riding in the carriage with his monstrous unloving mother through the streets of London to his wedding and boasts of the show, and she says almost offhandedly, "Oh dear... I hope all this wasn't just for me," and you and he realize that the entire royal wedding was in fact just so he could for once win her approval, which she refuses to give.)

r343, it's probably a reflection of all of this: mediocre quality, older audiences still terrified of Covid and waiting for streaming/DVD, and simple exhaustion for a played-out franchise.

I doubt it's the quality, most people who liked the series and characters will still want to see it. Older people never flock on opening weekend so will likely do steady business during the week.

True. Half off Tuesday at Denny's + plus a matinee and you're home in time for Jeopardy!

Will it hit Amazon prime for streaming at the same time?

R346, the last one had a big opening week, though

Welcome to My Big Opening!

^ Abandon hope all ye who enter here.

I am love and lightness itself!

W&W for the hissing.

It's a good movie, every entertaining.

....

Boot rooms were next to the furnace room so your damp gear would dry. If Brits waited for good weather to go hiking, they’d never go anywhere.

[quote] W&W for the hissing.

Mary has to be hard because she will, in time, be the mistress of the Downton Agricultural Company and History House Novelty Tour with attached theme park.

Opening week numbers dropped because DA franchise is dying, or rather suffering from "oh is that still on?" malaise.

Yes, there is still considerable buzz around DA, but not much as when it all began some time ago now.

First film was a novelty that cashed in on DA's popularity. As stated elsewhere in this thread both movies are nothing more than jumped up Christmas specials. Since that sort of programming means little outside of GB, and there is potentially a much larger market movie theatre wise. there you are.

Last night I fell down a youtube hole watching various Allen Leech interviews from over the years. He is gorgeous and hilarious. Also, some even more hilarious Maggie Smith interviews on Graham Norton.

They'll probably go back to Christmas specials if the movies can't generate sufficient ROI. TV's cheaper. The south of France thing does feel a little Laverne and Shirley and everybody move to Hollywood.

Never added clip to R333, my bad...

This likely will be last we hear from Downton Abbey. There *might* be a Christmas special that PBS stations in USA will pick-up, and of course television worldwide. In several weeks DA will leave Netflix, but that door or similar could always open again.

Thing is DA has moved beyond a period drama set in late Edwardian pre-WWI and between wars era UK. What's left? Crawley family surviving during WWII and the Blitz?

r362, they could take in a passel of city kids during the Blitz.

R363

Highclere Castle in Hampshire (where DA is filmed), being well north of London took in (or were sent) dozens of evacuee children during WWII. No doubt if series does cover WWII in a future episode that bit just couldn't be left out.

Remember though, this is primarily a British production, in partnership with PBS. But it was conceived in the UK as a UK show and usually broadcast initially months prior in the UK and then run by PBS later (though it had Masterpiece written all over it. The costs for ITV to produce a special are comparatively low and the ROI quite promising because Chrismas Day special epsiodes (broadcast Christmas night) are a huge thing in the UK - almost traditional. So if the movie doesn't deliver profits that justify a third film (and as someone pointed out given the audience demographic it may be a slow build compared to an action man in tights movie) then it is likely they will revert to Christmas TV specials (or reboot the thing at some point if enough of the cast are hungry for work.) Where there's money to be made on a sure thing, they'll make it. Downton has Christmas written all over, too.)

I wouldn't be surprised if they did a reboot as a limited series, maybe 6 episodes.

The first movie seemed to trick fans into the theater. Like Mamma Mia, they would watch just about anything related to their fandom.

The second one....well, now they all know it's basically the same as two real long episodes of the show, and if they wait a year or so, it will be free on PBS, so why splurge $15 a ticket and risk COVID to see Michelle Dockery once again show us a face resembling a cat's pinched asshole?

Did Anna get held at gunpoint?

They thought about filming that scene, R368, but decided against it when they realized that the audience would cheer her death.

They should kill off Bates and have Anna sleep with Branson

They should end it with O'Brien returning and burning the place down.

Are DA fans all aware that lovely Lesley Nicol (Mrs. Patmore) has just lost her husband to Covid? She was performing her new one woman show off-Broadway (which I believe was about her crazy life) when she was called to his bedside, never to return. And I had wanted to see her in person!

[quote] Gorgeous ginger actor Charles Edwards (Michael Gregson

The fuck? I couldn’t look at that actor with the mashed up chin-snout and beady eyes. I was relieved when they got rid of that troll. He gave me the willies.

[quote] What's left? Crawley family surviving during WWII and the Blitz?

Hell, yes. They can introduce Charles Lightoller and his wife to Edith and the marquess . Lightoller survived the Titanic and 2 shipwrecks. He bought a yacht and was sent by Britain to survey the coast of Germany. Lady Edith could join him and they could go sleuthing to find the body of her child’s father and bring him home to Old Blighty. Adventure occurs. Edith becomes adept at yachting, taught by Lightoller. She buys a yacht, wears cute, blue shouldered designer nautical sailor suits and jaunty hats and scarves and joins yacht races. In 1940, Edith answers the call of Churchill and sails for Dunkirk.

But does she come back?

Cliffhanger.

In the next sequel, it is revealed that Edith comes back from Dunkirk. She develops an alcohol problem due to PTSD. Flashback to Edith captaining her yacht filled to the brim with bright young soldiery. The soldiers give a huzzah to the plucky marchioness. Just as they raise their hats to her, a luftwaffe strafes the ship and young, smiling boys clutch their chests, cry out and fall into the sea. Edith blames herself.

Edith needs a reason for living. The designer of her nautical fashions is killed and the police are bungling the case. Edith knows it was murder. She remembers her sleuthing in Germany and sets about solving the case. It is the beginning of her career as the Marchioness of Mystery.

The current film is set in 1928 so they have a ways to go before WWII.

Edith could undergo the first facelift.

[quote] I couldn’t look at that actor with the mashed up chin-snout … He gave me the willies

He's got one of those square-shaped jaws we all heard about here.

"The current film is set in 1928 so they have a ways to go before WWII"

From 1929 to run up of WWII things weren't that great in UK on many fronts.

Foremost there was the "Great Slump" (Great Depression), which while not as devastating compared to USA, never the less had an impact economically and socially.

Like USA it was run up to WWII (in response to Germany rearming herself) that began to change things economically by about middle of 1930's.

As chronicled in Brideshead Revisited and elsewhere good number of British who believed WWI was end of things, and through 1920's felt UK was returning to normal (whatever that was) started to see the obvious, Europe was heading for another war.

For the upper classes such as the Crawley family 1930's saw ever increasing taxation especially death duties. Fee entail was largely abolished and as consequence many families faced great duties upon a demise they either weren't expecting nor well prepared to pay.

Upper classes in UK on average still had things pretty good for much of 1930's I suppose. But as film Gosford Park explores or exposes changes happened, and more were coming.

Bankers, brewers, businessmen and others from decidedly "wrong" backgrounds such as William McCordle now had fortunes. Meanwhile the old aristocracy was seeing theirs dwindle. In both fact and fiction increasingly nobility had to make up their minds as to who had money, and how they could get it. Sylvia McCordle, Louisa Stockbridge, Constance Trentham, and Freddie Nesbitt all married, associated, or otherwise cozied up to persons they obviously found distasteful, but William McCordle and Mabel Nesbitt had the money.

As stated in thread previously Julian Fellowes could do another DA movie basically along lines of "Gosford Park", showing Crawley family in 1930's continuing on as if nothing were amiss. That however would be boring without something else. GP at least had a murder. Nancy Mitford's great books set in same period, "Love In A Cold Climate", and "Pursuit of Love" took another route, and of course we all know "Brideshead Revisited".

Problem with DA is it has run for so long it's done so much already. What is there left? Icy Lady Mary is widowed yet again, then remarries? Granny Crawley is gone. Both Earl of Grantham and his countess are getting on (or should be by 1930's). No one wants more of Bates and his tedious wife Anna. Carson is looking increasingly like death warmed over.

R371

Worked for me...

And me as well!

[quote]Problem with DA is it has run for so long it's done so much already. What is there left?

"Downton Abbey: The Next Generation."

Someone had suggested a prequel with Cora coming to London and her courtship with Robert. We'd get all the period costumes and the glamor with those. They'd have younger actors so they could spice things up with sex scenes.

Or a spin-off of Barrow as a gay man in 1920s London. I'd watch that! If Fellowes was smart he'd sell off the rights to that and get out of the way.

I remember a previous thread where people were making up the series finale ending and someone said Barrow would go to Hollywood, become kept boy by a rich Hollywood producer and then become a big movie star. That would be great.

Question for out UK friends.

I was in a meeting with a guy about 60 years old at the time. I'd been working with him for years. His accent sounded similar to many of the folks who were friends at the time.

After the meeting, he left and the other folks proceeds to have a 20 minute discussion about how "posh" his accent was and started making jokes about it. Mind you, these were all folks who were university educated with at least two people Oxbridge grads.

So, here is my question: Are the accent's of the Crawleys posh enough? Secondary question: Does Julian Fellows have what would be called a posh accent?

Violet's accent is fairly posh but there's a hit of regional in there now and then. Wobert's is posh but not complete full received pronunciation. Mary's is fairly posh.

My guess is if there is another DA movie or whatever, it will be set in 1930's, but before 1939.

Despite upheavals caused by Great Depression it was a glamorous period in terms of fashion and some other bits. So many great films including comedies such as "The Women" and "My Man Godfrey" came out in 1930's. Plays, music and films of Noel Coward....

There's the abdication crisis of 1936 for material. Since it seems all but certain Matthew Goode isn't returning to DA so there's a plot line as well. Henry Talbot murdered? Stepping out on Lady Mary and she wants a divorce?

It also would be an opportune time for the Crawley family to show they are feeling a same sort of financial jolt or pinch nearly everyone else in their class was in real life.

I love Mary's voice. The actress, IRL, has a different accent but still a lovely voice. The Edith actress has pretty much the same voice / accent in-character and out of character.

How many years have EastEnders and Coronation Street run in the UK? I see no reason to end DA now as long as audience watch and the projects are spaced out appropriately.

I agree r389. They could keep DA going for a long time.

[quote] Or a spin-off of Barrow as a gay man in 1920s London

I’m telling you he and his royal household BF should open a protective security service/detective agency. Barrow would know immediately if the butler did it. He’d also know if the butler didn’t do it and would explain why (after the murder is solved) based on his extensive knowledge of genteel household minutiae.

Screw Barrow and Fellowes, r391. Write that up with original characters, I would definitely watch that!

Well my dears, change really has come to Downton!

Poor Mrs Hughes. I'd rather stay single than polish Carson's knob.

Unless of course that deep voice equals serious sizemeats.

That's for me to know and you to find out, r394!

Plus it wouldn’t seem strange if Barrow and his bf lived together in London with an sassy elderly housekeeper, a la Sherlock Holmes.

Or Professor Higgins and Col. Pickering.

I met Allen Leech in person around the time of "The Imitation Game". He was a bit pudgy but very attractive and charming. I was really turned on while in his presence.

Allen Leech is adorable, I would definitely hit it.

They could do an abdication/coronation storyline for the mid-thirties. Now that Granny's gone, they could easily jump ahead because there is a great story in George the heir going to war... he will be just the right age at 18 in 1939.

I expect they'll revert to Christmas specials again once the movie cow won't milk... which I can't see past two more movies (coronation and war) and that's probably wildly optimistic.

The problem is Fellowes doesn't write well enough to really come up with anything more that is also interesting. He will get the geriatric crowd whether he's on TV or in the theaters but he doesn't write well enough to get anybody except the geriatric crowd. Granted, demographically, there's more of 'em than ever but still if you can do it cheaper to TV it's still a business first and art second.

R389

EastEnders, Coronation Street and rest of soap opera type programs are just that, not period dramas. Like "General Hospital", or "One Life To Live", they are set in modern times around set ensemble with extras coming and going as plot devices. As things go on certain core cast members may leave (or die in real life), but things just otherwise keep on going.

World Crawley's lived in was dying or at least drastically changed starting a bit before WWI. Pace picked up in years between wars, and was basically totally smashed by 1970.

Yes, the Queen still sits upon her throne, and certain peers such as Duke of Westminster are worth tons, but world of "Upstairs/Downstairs" is largely gone, at least as it was during Edwardian time.

Current Lady Carnarvon manages to keep some semblance of it at Highclere castle, but it is a much tighter ship than 100 years ago.

Piece from Town and Country magazine tells about current staffing at Highclere and by extension great country estates of UK.

Keep in mind while many British still own great country estates or houses, good portion of them are owed by Russian, Middle Eastern, Eastern European and other international mega rich.

Pat the Painter.... Don't you dare call her "Quaint Irene".

Aw R403 I love Pat!

Future plot twists?

Wife of that farmer Lady Edith tried to seduce has been widowed and left penniless by Great Depression. She shows up at DA and tells Lady Edith she knows all about that by-blow Marigold and threatens going to media if Crawley's don't pay up.

Lady Edith and her husband (shades of Duke of Windsor and his wife, one of the Mitford sisters) become big pro Hitler/Nazi sympathizers. Could happen also with Branson and his wife, but somehow don't see an Irishman as going all in for Herr Hitler.

George Crawley begins to realize he's "different" from other men, and like his father, mother Carson and others "knows" Thomas is gay so confides his secret to that butler. This would have to be in 1939 or bit after when GC is no longer a minor, otherwise even Fellowes wouldn't go there.

Though inconceivable because of damage it would cause franchise, Earl Grantham dies, triggering staggering death duties. Lady Mary is back where DA began, forced to look about for money including selling up things from estate.

Gay or not, George Crawley grows up to be a right nasty bit of work who doesn't like his mother. Setting stage for not unheard of battles between mother and heir.

[quote] George Crawley begins to realize he's "different" from other men and "knows" Thomas is gay so confides his secret to that butler.

Promising hot gay sex scenes.

Thomas would be a wizened elder gay by then, so don't know how hot any sex scenes would be between himself and young George Crawley.

Better twist would be DA taking on young lad to who works outdoors (a la Scudder from Maurice) who knows what he is, and also knows what a young gay Thomas needs. Like Maurice what young George Crawley only felt in abstract prior, now has confirmation, but how to manage it?

Being the resident gay of DA (again how everyone knew this I don't know), Thomas would be natural person for GC to turn in such a crisis. It would also give ever scheming and conniving Thomas (assuming he hasn't mellowed with age), bit of something on the Crawley family.

Please, it will never get that far. Although it might be cool to bring it back in a few years as a miniseries examing the realities of life for people like the Crawleys from the late 30s to early 50s. But that would require a much more insightful writing team.

Tagging onto R170...

Keep in mind at time Violet Crawley married laws in Britain most certainly were all that a woman had or was expected to receive became the property of her legal husband. Not sure if changes to those laws would have occurred by time Cora married into Grantham family.

To prevent men from breaking their wives fortunes and leaving them penniless in case of death or desertion, marriage contracts often specifically spelled out what what would be "settled" upon a wife and or her children (especially daughters).

This was important because once new heir inherited regardless of it being a son or distant male relative, he could (and many did) turf out the widow and her children. Absent any contractual obligations (again marriage contracts/settlements), there was little else in laws at that time which offered protection.

Push for changes in property laws regarding women actually came in huge part from the newly wealthy middle and upper classes. Unlike peers of old who often inherited large parts of their income, these bankers, brewers, and others actually worked to make and build their fortunes. They were damned if husbands of their daughters were going to get their mitts on all "their" money.

First changes allowed for trusts and other instruments that kept a woman's money/fortune locked up so tightly it couldn't be kicked nor kissed out of her. Otherwise the all too common fate was a husband who plowed through is wife's money, and once it was gone treated her badly. The Honorable Freddie Nesbitt of Gosford Park fits this bill. He married his wife her for her father's money. It's all gone now, and he clearly despises his wife. Mabel's father was one of those newly made fortunes from industry. Sort of people peers and landed gentry either despised or at least avoided. But by Edwardian period into and past WWI those people had money, and money is a powerful motivator.

Highclere has a staff of about 150, soup to nuts.

I have this book...not a ton of insight into the details but a lot of staff to keep the place going... again, most not in direct service of the family. They don't live like Downton in daily life, yet, they are largely supported like Downton. So no ladies' maids or footmen but lots of people cleaning and cooking. They basically live like any rich people with a big house, just no powdered wigs and liveries.

[quote Thomas would be a wizened elder gay by then, so don't know how hot any sex scenes would be between himself and young George Crawley.

George as a young virgin twink, introduced by experienced gay daddy Thomas would be SUPER hot.

[quote] Thomas would be a wizened elder gay by then, so don't know how hot any sex scenes would be between himself and young George Crawley.

George as a young virgin twink, introduced by experienced gay daddy Thomas would be SUPER hot.

By some accounts Downton Abbey is rather understaffed compared to accounts of real country estates.

Mind you Fellowes keeps focus on tight group of about 8-11 members of downstairs. But we do see in background various other servants scurrying about. If union rules in UK are same as those in USA, these uncredited and never face towards camera extras would be paid less, but still. Same holds true for Fellowes other period piece, Gosford Park. In scenes showing downstairs we see far more servants than are credited.

R414 - plus except for the kitchen and some of the bedrooms they shot on location at Highclere, so you'd have to ship the extras out, feed 'em, staff 'em, put them up or ship them home. Probably two hours by road and not much less by train.

[quote] George Crawley begins to realize he's "different" from other men, and like his father, mother Carson and others "knows" Thomas is gay so confides his secret to that butler. This would have to be in 1939 or bit after when GC is no longer a minor, otherwise even Fellowes wouldn't go there.

Thomas would fall head over heels in love with young master George as he did with Ed Speelers' character. The way Fellowes writes, though, the only ending would be Barrow dying in a fire after saving young strapping George, who carelessly started the fire after drunkenly falling asleep with a lit fag in his mouth.

And they say [italic]I'm[/italic] a bad writer.

[quote] [R414] - plus except for the kitchen and some of the bedrooms they shot on location at Highclere, so you'd have to ship the extras out, feed 'em, staff 'em, put them up or ship them home. Probably two hours by road and not much less by train.

I thought the entire servants' area (downstairs), not just the kitchen, was on set. They're not going to ship random extras to Highclere.

I was happy with the amount of servants on camera. One season, in particular, there were too many servants with story lines. The love quadrangle season with the good-looking male servant (who Daisy and Thomas both liked) who liked the new female servant. There was another male servant who liked Daisy, but of course dumb Daisy can't like him back.

“ but somehow don't see an Irishman as going all in for Herr Hitler.”

Well, not Tom as he is now, but Tom when he was a revolutionary/chauffeur? Ireland was (cough) neutral during the war, along the lines of “the enemy of my enemy…”

If Matthew Goode wants to get out of his role, just recast it. But what would be fun, if Mary is somehow single again, is the wealthy newspaper publisher played by Ian Glen to come back (now that GoT is over). He played a repellent character but he and Mary had a kind of fatal chemistry. New money vs old. Would certainly stir up things around the ol’ homestead.

R419 fuck off, Ireland may have been "neutral" as they needed to not be seen to band together with their "enemy", but they did a lot to help the allied forces..

“phoney”?

Was Ireland…..behaving like a phone?

The reasons for Irish neutrality during the Second World War are widely accepted overtly pro-British line might have resulted in a replay of the Civil War — www. historyireland.com

www.historyireland doesn’t speak English very well.

Well does not English speak historyireland.com

Michael & Michelle.

Lady Mary and Footman Andy's singing.

More

Saw it tonight. Loved it. Didn't see any need for a second movie. Now hoping they make more.

R426 But was there a climax to the story?

did barrow finally get laid?

Actually loved it, R426? Why? I like the franchise but it is junk food to me now. Genuinely curious about loved it. I won't see it until it streams.

R424, R425, thanks for the two songs from the EP with Michael Fox and Michelle Dockery. Their sound, is so 1990s singer / songwriter, a very clean and simple production to the songs. They aren't going to burn up the charts and neither has an incredible voice, but they duet well and it's interesting to learn what actors do when not filming movies or TV. Fox is romantically involved with the actress who plays Edith, so the actors are friends off-set which is also nice to learn.

Well, I saw it and think this movie completes all the story lines quite well. If they tried something else, it wouldn't be the same, especially without some of the major and most interesting characters.

**spoiler alert**

Does Julian visit the DL? I heard Barrow's ending is happy and it was suggested here on the DL.

Barrow moves to USA to be the house boy and boyfriend of the lead actor.

All of the original cast look like they could do it blindfolded, Maggie Smith chews the scenery, the other originals cast members do the same following her lead. The screenplay was good and kept it interesting.

Absolutely loved the movie. I thought it was better than the last movie. However, if they do another one they should use a different set-up than something/somebody is coming the Downton Abbey as it's been used twice now.

I saw it last night. I found it disappointing. I think it would only be satisfying to fans; don't take a friend who does not know the characters.

For the first thirty minutes, I was thinking that this was a film for people with very short attention spans. Someone should count up the number of scenes that consisted of two or three people having a conversation while walking or working together, each of which lasted less than 30 seconds.

The storytelling was lazy ... stakes were so low that it was insulting. The conflict seems to hinge on the characters being tempted to have illicit sex and do bad things ... but in the end, they never do. Lady Violet may have had sex with a French count? But she didn't. Lady Mary might kiss the director in the library with the candlestick? But she doesn't. Barrow might get it on with the leading man actor in his office? But he doesn't ... he doesn't even flirt with him beyond agreeing to be his kept servant.

The promise of "secrets" which are supposed to fuel the drama in a soap opera, in this case, led to predictable safe resolutions and no payoffs.

Maggie Smith for the win ... she won't ever have to do another one of these.

They need to resurrect this chap.

Saw it. Bad episode of the series with drone shots and retirees snoring in the audience.

What's the box office? That's the decider. If it's a middling success, they'll be back to Christmas specials.

Answering my own questions... It's made almost $61M so far worldwide in a week or so... no budget listed. The coverage is characterizing the opening with words like solid and respectable.

The original made a total worldwide release of $196M on a budget of $13M.

I loved it but I do find Downton Abbey motion pictures released theatrically to be an odd concept. I get the money part but from a story telling perspective, these movies don't stand on their own. If you didn't watch the series, you have no idea who these characters are or how they relate to one another. In this one, there are numerous verbal references to things and characters that you would only know from watching the show. I went with three other people, two of whom loved the show. The third had never seen the series and was completely lost. Far too many characters for anyone unfamiliar with the storyline.

[quote] If it's a middling success, they'll be back to Christmas specials.

I just wonder about the relative costs nowdays between making something for TV and something for the big screen.

I understand it's not that much different compared to 'the good old days'. For instance the TV Poirot 'Death On The Nile' was filmed on location in Egypt just like the well-loved 1978 movie version.

I liked it and thought it was better than the first film. The storylines were more fun. One of the best bits IMO was when Bertie blurts out that Myrna’s working class accent was “ghastly.” This was obviously Uncle Julian’s idea of an in joke because Harry Hadden-Paton had recently completed a very successful run as linguist Henry Higgins in the Lincoln Center revival of My Fair Lady.

Dominic West looked awful. Was it the mustache?

I finally saw this on Amazon.

It's ridiculous - even more ridiculous than the first film. It's wonderful - even better than the first film. I loved it. All I ask from DA movies, not unlike the final seasons of the series, is plenty of lush costuming and set decoration. I love these characters and honestly don't care much about the storylines. I just like spending time with them.

All the same, there were problems: Hugh Bonneville was too thin. This look may be healthier than his previous weight, but he looks like hell. Rob James-Collier is still ridiculously handsome, but Thomas has apparently become one of the stately homos of England - his character has no spark since they decided to make him a martyr to his sexuality and an object of pity by all the happily paired-off characters. Maggie Smith really looks awful, but I guess she's entitled to at 88. Allen Leech briefly shows a nice bulge in a tennis outfit and is as handsome as ever.

Randomly: The costumes are beautiful but not period-accurate - the younger women's skirts are too long for 1928. I want to live in that villa in France. Dominic West is only 7 years older than Rob C-J but looks old enough to be his father. I've never cared for Matthew Goode; if there's a 3rd movie, I hope they've killed off his useless character in the meantime. Michelle Dockery had a lot more chemistry with Hugh Dancy than she ever had with Goode.

Anyway, if you're a fan of DA and haven't seen it yet, see it. It's delightful and left me wanting more.

DA plot lines have always been ridiculous. Nothing new here.

What's going on with Maggie's eyes here?

Is anyone watching this since it’s popped up on Amazon Prime this weekend? It’s quite ridiculously over the top!

R447 they CGI'd her eyes to look more "natural". It was as natural as Superman's mustache.

[quote] Damn good and about time Bates, Anna and so on were "sidelined". We saw far too much of the pair of them early on in DA. At one point was sort of hoping Bates would be hung so Anna would retreat into deep mourning somewhere

Why would she be sad about that? Her pussy must be super tight!

I watched the movie the other night. It's basically become a parody of itself, but it's still entertaining. Some of the actors were just phoning it in.

It's just a money making machine for them now. Little thought to a storyline that actually tells a story, though there's always plenty of plot. I expect it will go back to Christmas TV specials now - there's still some money to be made and they are the same pleasure as any confection at Christmas.

“You get a happy ending, and you get a happy ending, and…!”

But I bet Thomas doesn't get a happy ending, in any way.

The movies clearly made a profit.

I wonder if they'll make any more? There's some level of an audience for them. I think at a certain point they have to shrink the cast and have adult versions of the next generation. I could see a new show or a trilogy with Mary and Edith heading things up, and all their little brats fighting over something in late 30's era.

However the closer the story comes to present day is probably where Uncle Julian loses interest. He likes it better when the titled people are grand and the plebes know their places.

R454 They suggested Thomas is getting a happy ending.....in the most subtle way possible, of course.

Are you serious? Thomas got an instant boyfriend who lives in Hollywood. He’ll never have to deal with fuckface Carson ever again!

R455, I think TV movies are cheaper to make than movies. The Downton franchise is reliable so they'll find a way to milk it. The next two epic moments in history are the Crash and the second world war. The Crash.... does anybody want to see Downton at risk again but miraculously saved by another ginormous bag of money emerging from nowhere? The second world war would put George at risk - he'd be army age - that's some serious drama but Uncle Julian is old and bored and likes bustles these days.

R457, I hated Carson. A pompous old asshole, with a soppy Mary worship. Couldn't stand him, written or played.

Everyone got a story arc in the movie, except the Bateses. Even Mrs. Patmore was thrown some story crumbs, but nothing for the Bateses.

Carson gets my nether regions all moist and twitchy. To each her/his own. The actor gives off a ton of sexual heat.

[quote] Is anyone watching this since it’s popped up on Amazon Prime this weekend? It’s quite ridiculously over the top!

Didn't realize it's on Prime (free), at least the "New Era" movie. I'll watch it and report back.

R455, If they want to continue with the present cast (minus Maggie Smith), they can set the next one in late 1929, when it turns out the Crawleys have lost their money (again!) because of the stock market crash. If you think Fellowes would hesitate to reuse that plot, then you clearly haven't been paying attention. Or they could set it in ca. 1932, when the Crawley are coping with being poor-ish.

I think a late-'30's setting would be great - admittedly mostly because I want to see the costumes and hear the music from that era. Robert would 74 in 1939, so Hugh Bonneville (about to turn 59) would need some aging. Cora would be 71 (Elizabeth McGovern is currently 61), so ditto. Mary would be 48, and Michelle Dockery will be 41 in December, so you could get away with saying she just looks young for her age. Also, moving the setting to 1938-39 would give plenty of time to get rid of her dope of a husband and get a new romantic interest for Mary. God knows she needs one.

Mary’s husband and the Irish guy can make vehicles and weapons for the Third Reich, how’s that for a plot twist?

Tom looked fat in his wife beater when he was swimming. Very roly poly. He's such a handsome guy. He'd look so much better if he hit the gym and lost all the weight.

It was fun seeing him as a prick in Rocket Man.

Alan Leech (Branson) is not a great actor.

Hugh Bonneville was too tanned and his voice was weak. Lost about 40 lbs., as well.

Murray, the attorney, was amazingly tanned, as well.

Barrow looked older but still handsome.

Best actors are Cora and Mrs. Hughes and Matthew’s mother. Violet’s lady’s maid had a star moment opportunity at Violet’s death bed - she cried out but no tears in her eyes.

There was no tension in the plot.

Everybody’s married, now, and lives in a separate cottage.

I saw it on Prime (free) the other day. I enjoyed it and thought the Hugh Bonneville's scene, with him getting angry at Cora one moment then starting to cry at the thought of possibly losing her, was really well done and quite emotional. It got to me anyway. Happy for Thomas, as Dominic West's character was lovely, inside and out. Fun seeing the servants dressed all posh in one sequence when they are needed as extras for the movie-within-the movie. Don't know why the Cockney leading lady, who can't master received pronunciation of proper British speech, is all of a sudden with a little coaching, able to do a good American accent. But it's a movie, right? It was fun. Btw, Harry Hadden-Paton was just terrific in "My Fair Lady" a few years ago in NY and I guess recently (or now) he's reprising it in London.

We just watched this on Amazon last night.

One of those movies where you are enjoying it in the moment, but if you think about it too hard after, few things actually make sense and/or are so obviously corny.

Thomas deciding the chuck his entire life at Downton and run off with the actor... after about four 90-second conversations and zero physical interaction? I was hoping for at least a kiss to show their was some chemistry.

The actress magically learns how to do a passable American accent overnight?

And the basis of the plot, that the French guy was so smitten with Violet having known her for grand total of seven days that he signed over his house to her at the expense of his wife and son? I can get that he did not love the wife... but the son seems blameless enough.

Also Violet dying on cue....

But like I said, in the moment it was great and everything you want from a Downton movie right down to the top hats at the funeral procession.

Final note: Much overlap between DA and this season of The Crown in terms of cast. Imelda Staunton and Dominic West

I can't keep up with all these spin-offs and reboots.