And Just Like That … part 9 discussion: ScaramouCHE, will They do the fandango!

Thank God we've gotten past the pollyannish reviews of this episode. It's as bad as the rest of them. Carrie treats her date like shit, Anthony makes sourdough challa (sounds revolting), Che's dumb party (a pilot for what?), the Black lawyer suddenly wants to hang out with Miranda, Big's ashes in Paris? He seems to have no sentimental tie there (she does) and his family has a crypt---he dies but it's all about her. Brady is conveniently written away (along with Steve about whom nothing is said). Carrie's podcast advice seems insipid and fucking her boss will be even dumber than the Big romance. The Samantha text is, of course, the teaser that won't result in anything.

A more realistic end to the Miranda-Che thing would have been for Che to point out the obvious---Miranda is a needy 12 year old and end things with her. Instead we get a bad "Beach Boys" cover and more Miranda as a 12 year old. At least Che admits to being a narcissist. Carrie's "judgment" is the only realistic behavior in the whole episode.

I hope Rabbi Jen comes back if there's a second season. I'm surprised she isn't trans---that was my first guess. And finally they dress Charlotte in something that doesn't accentuate those hips.

SJP has more wrinkles than I do and I have a few years on her. I have a better neck, too. Big did not seem like the Todd Rundgren type---more frat rock-ish. And that hideous orange dress with the raspberry gloves.

Miranda looks so much better as a red head.

"And Just Like That" was so inspiring to me that found myself holding a pastel-hued cupcake in a crosswalk, smiling warmly to the sky

And then the M5 bus came whizzing by, and R2 and the pastel-hued cupcake were no more.

You can really tell the writing talent differences between Darren Star and MPK. I'd never call Emily in Paris a great show, but it's charming. There's no charm in AJLT

Podcast is up

I was high. I thought your name was Mirandajuana. My bad so imma bounce.

Sarah Jessica Parker is a c*nt. Her comments on Kim were peppered with shade. Cynthia and Kristin got a million per episode for the reboot but they didn’t want to pay Kim during the original series.

“I don’t think I would, because I think there’s just too much public history of feelings on her part that she’s shared,” Parker said after being asked if she would be OK with it.

“I haven’t participated in or read articles, although people are inclined to let me know," the star continued.

“We didn’t go to Kim for this, you know,” Parker said of the way Samantha has been kept alive in the reboot.

“After we didn’t do the movie and the studio couldn’t meet what she wanted to do, we have to hear her and listen to her and what was important to her. It didn’t fit into what was important or needed for us.

“There’s a very distinct line between Samantha and Kim,” Parker continued.

“Samantha’s not gone. Samantha’s present, and I think was handled with such respect and elegance. She wasn’t villainized."

"distinct line between Samantha and Kim, Samantha wasn't villainized"

Reality: "Samantha's a cunt who left town because I stopped paying her!'

The dress on the bridge is peak SATC foolishness.

We are supposed to think that the characters are smart women who constantly act like idiots.

And, finally, Miranda got rid of the stack of old Fred Astaire toupees she was wearing. And we now know why she was wearing the godawful things: She refused to not color her own hair. Such a commitment to her craft.

Wow. SJP sounds like one angry, bitter cunt in that interview. Where were HBO's publicists in that process to intervene and tell her to tone it down? (PR flacks are on hand for all of these puff pieces).

The response should have been: "I bear no ill will whatsoever toward Kim and truly wish her the best. I wouldn't be where I am today were it not for her contribution."

She and MPK should never be allowed to interview again. They come off horribly.

Miranda is a fucking joke. No one is impressed with Cynthia portraying a selfish, pussy-whipped, annoying cunt.

Does SJP realize that actions speak louder than words? She is the one constantly starting shit with Kim. She never quite got over being told no.

SJP: "PLEASE come to my party, Kim!"

KIM: "I have no intention of going to your party."

SJP: "Well, good--because you're not invited! So there!!!"

Samantha Irby: 'Stop blaming me for this pile of shit!"

And just like that… Carrie is Frasier Crane.

Samantha Irby protesth too much---she says she's at the bottom of the food chain , but she helped write this shit, which would have been foundational if nothing else.

Ridiculously overdressed though she was, I thought Carrie actually looked good in the Paris scene.

You gotta admire SJP, how she always works in a free trip to Paris on HBO's dime.

Standing on the bridge, she looked like a 1965 Tampax ad. Winced at how she slapped all the ashes out of that bag, as if it had dog crap in it.

This show marks the end of Noth's career but probably not hers.

The pink gloves resembled oven mitts.

[quote] Winced at how she slapped all the ashes out of that bag, as if it had dog crap in it.

Yeah, I was expecting it to be a lot more graceful.

I was waiting for the ashes to blow back in her face, get up in her nose and hair, cover her tongue, and ruin that silly dress.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

It's unfortunate MPK listened to CN, it would have been interesting to see two straight women navigate becoming attracted to each other later in life. So much humor to be mined, so much vulnerability and drama, really could have been wonderful. I have known of two lesbian couples who were "straight" until they met their female partner. Unfortunately didn't know either couple well enough to ever get personal enough hear their stories.

During the early Miranda scenes with Nya there did seem to be some element of attraction there so this clip explained that.

Ending every show with the 'and just like that' is trite and IMO quite lazy, although its evolving into an inadvertent meme worthy punchline. Like most of the writing and plot lines in this iteration, the writing is predictable and almost diametrically opposite to the original characters (the most guilty party being Miranda Nixon, who isn't helping herself or the show)

Just finished the "documentary" which was 75 minutes of them telling us what a GREAT person SJP is.

So, in other words, 75 moments of shit...

[quote]Samantha Irby protesth too much---she says she's at the bottom of the food chain , but she helped write this shit, which would have been foundational if nothing else.

She put a whole heap of herself into the Che character, right down to Che's bowel issues, for god's sake. Now she tries to distance herself from it?

Of course she blames everyone but herself. She's friends with Roxane Gay!

Rabbi Jen was really obnoxious, I don't get all the love being shown here.

I thought the Paris scene was more shitty green screen. Did they actually go?

It's a shame the old hags never take the subway, because I have the perfect 'ripped from the headlines' series ending.

Well, Miranda did save Nya from a Chucky doll down there on one occasion.

I would have told Rabbi Jen that if I wanted therapy, I would pay for a therapist and to mind her own fucking business.

Dressed in a campy costume. Carrying the ashes in a campy novelty bag.

Was the scene on the bridge supposed to show how Carrie expressed her anger and contempt for Big as she disposed of his ashes?

And no, the bag was too small to carry all the ashes. Did she dump the rest at the hotel so that she would not have to change purses?

Dumb show.

This show is all horse pucky.

And we know where it came from!

The ashes wouldn't even have fit in that stupid bag (assuming she took them all.) My dog was 75 pounds and he wouldn't fit in that bag.

[quote]You can really tell the writing talent differences between Darren Star and MPK.

I can't remember the story but I read a line that talked about DS leaving the show under mysterious circumstances. It leapt out at me and I should have pasted the link here. But anyway, wonder what that means? It was during MPK that all Carrie's worst characteristics dominated.

In the end, everybody talked about the show for good reasons, to the credit of HBO's reputation.

Now, everybody talks about the show for bad reasons. HBO has officially made the right noises in the press - they can't call it junk. But it will be really interesting to see if it comes back and if it does how much is changed.

They should reconceptualize and recast it like the new Queer as Folk. Then release it on Crackle.

YAAAS, R40: an All Gender Specials AJLT.....

"(Aidan's return] is a big storyline that everybody at home wrote that we had never intended."

MPK once again heaping derision on the fans and viewers.

This mealy-mouthed elder-elf needs to be kept far, far away from the press.

I'm glad he had such a good time producing a show for ten people to love.

I love how many queens are "team Kim" just because they worship Samantha. Literally every other person who has worked on SATC has only good things to say about SJP. Even Jason Lewis, who had all of his scenes with Kim, has publicly come out as being on SJP's side. Meanwhile, Kim has had not a single person from the show come out in her defense. The idea that it's someone other than Kim who was the problem here is just delusional.

Thanks, SJP intern.

Thanks for proving my point, R45.

The key element this series missed from the original SATC is the appearance of one or two HOT new guys on each episode.

IMO they should have made Brady a sexy Gen Z (or whatever 20-somethings are now called), who could be dating someone new each week. It would have been a far more fun way to introduce some POCs of all colors and perhaps he could have become serious with one of them and then that boyfriend 's mother could have become Miranda's new buddy (instead of the boring sour-faced Naya.

And could the 3rd podcaster have been a hot young Asian comic instead of that toad? And we could have followed his dating various hot young guys over the course of the season.

And could they have given Seema a hot younger stud of a bf or 2 before the finale?

SEX is really what was missing for me from the season.

The show has the taste level of a fart joke. Michael Patrick King needs to retire.

That Keebler elf looking motherfucker* MPK ruined the legacy of the show with that second film now he’s dug up its corpse and defiled it in a very public way.

*with credit to Ozark writers

The fact that the season is now over and and it still hasn't been renewed is quite telling. You would've thought a renewal would've been announced a few episodes in.

[quote]Rabbi Jen was really obnoxious

Yes, I would hope for a Rabbi who doesn't have the depth and presence of a TikTok influencer.

I'm surprised modern rabbis and priests haven't taken up a "Tik tok ministry".

Mazel Tok!

I thought it was weird that Charlotte's daughter says she doesn't feel like a girl and Charlotte throws up a gay-themed party with enough candy to feed thousands of children.

I understand defending your art, but I think it’s weird how MPK seems to hate the audience. He’s always so defensive and saying things like, “The audience wants one thing or is projecting on our characters - I’m going to tell the story I want!” Artistically, I guess I can understand that, but commercially it seems really stupid.

I thought the term "trans" was a no-no? Charlotte was throwing it around left and right. They never thought to ask Rock if they wanted a "theymitzvah" at all, especially given all the trouble they have been giving them all season.

The whole term "theymitzvah" is absurd and if you are going to do a candy theme make it good chocolate FFS. Not cheap ass , disgusting Gummi fish and candy pinwheels.

How long til Miranda comes slinking back? No way would the old Miranda give up career aspirations for some crush. She's acting like a dickmatized, brainless teenager.

So Cynthia Nixon asked MPK to make her "female" love interest more "butch"?

Is she even allowed to use those words in reference to a super-special, trendy "nonbinary" person who doesn't realize she's just a garden-variety butch lez?

Yes, r57, most 13 year old kids want “good chocolate” instead of Gummi bears and Skittles.

HBO just renewed Somebody, Somewhere with Bridget Everett after only 2 episodes. Just saying...

I hope they do make Miranda realize that Che was never going to be the person she wanted and admit that to herself

I still can't get over a New Yorker with an established career quitting her paying gig and MOVING to LA over just getting a fucking pilot.

Entertainers get pilots all the time knowing it isn't going to lead to a steady job. Most pilots wind up in the dumpster.

So both Miranda AND Che were written as idiots.

R60 and Euphoria for season 3

I thought they just moved for a few months-where was it said this is permanent?

[quote]I hope they do make Miranda realize that Che was never going to be the person she wanted and admit that to herself

They're not telling that story. MPK called Cheynoble Miranda's "liberator."

Maybe the pause on the renewal is a negotiating tactic. HBO might want critical acclaim too. Nobody is honestly calling this a hit. It was talked about for its failings. I bet Carrie Doll is upset she's attached to so much backlash.

It's still funny

There is no doubt that HBO will renew. If they renewed SJP's no-buzz bomb Divorce, they will renew this, which gets a lot of attention, for better or worse.

But there may be contentious negotiations behind the scenes between HBO, MPK, and SJP.

HBO can't be pleased with how much the audience hated this show. And MPK and SJP seem like such know-it-all "you HAVE to trust MY taste and judgment" types.

Am surprised she did not have someone to hold the dress train.

Has there been any discussion of Carrie being a mother? It seems she missed out on that, but I guess she is a more a career-woman and then a career-wife.and then a career-widow.

[quote] Big's ashes in Paris? He seems to have no sentimental tie there (she does) and his family has a crypt---he dies but it's all about her.

How shocking! Usually Carrie is so selfless, and so out of touch with her own desires!

HBO holds all the cards. The movies and now this crapfest have made it clear that SJP and MPK don't care about quality, they will squeeze this dead franchise until they die.

Carrie looks like a California King unmade bed. With sheets from the '70s.

I hope they bring in Bette Midler in season 2 as Carrie's long-estranged mother. SJP and Bette have re-bonded making Hocus Pocus 2.

You mean Carrie's long-estranged sister!

[quote] You mean Carrie's long-estranged sister!

—Bette

You mean London does really age women terribly Samantha...

If SJP didn't get along with Kim Cattrall, I doubt she got along with the legendarily difficult Bette Midler.

The rabbi was not trans?

Even The Atlantic needed to vent about Miranda.

There were a few germs of interesting stories throughout the season, but they were discarded as soon as they were brought up. The bravest moment of the show was when Carrie pissed into the Snapple bottle as Miranda was going to town with Che in the kitchen. It was messy, a little disturbing, and sad, but it felt real.

The show runners seem more interested in bringing up great ideas than actually doing anything with them. The professor would have been a much better love interest for Miranda and would have given that character something to do. I felt bad for the actress who seems talented but that character wasn't a good fit for the show. Charlotte's friend also got very little to do, but Seema was a good addition and, if there's a second season, they'd be wise to expand her role. She's one of the few elements of this season that worked.

At least Miranda’s hair is back to being red.

It was all cheap thrills, facile emotions, sloppy narratives, and superficial depictions of life in this decade... and still one can't deny these "characters" have been in one's life a long time, and what happens to them draws one's attention.

The absurd dress on the bridge in Paris summarizes this... what idiot would wear that costume in public anywhere, let alone walking on the dirty sidewalks of Paris. It was a perfume ad, a silly one at that. Carrie, alone, styled carrying Big's ashes in the middle-school girl souvenir handbag... was ridiculous, heartbreaking.

Rabbi Jen was really annoying.

At least Miranda’s hair is back to being Miranda's.

I think Carrie's Eiffel Tower bag from the first series. I saw it in the costume storage area during what little of the documentary I made it through.

And, yes, my first thought was, "Was Big a parakeet? How could all of him fit in that silly bag?"

Rabbi Jen seemed like she was in a different show from everyone else.

A "They"-mitzvah should NEVER ever happen. Just... no.

The Atlantic piece was actually very fair and measured. Someone shove it in Cynthia's face.

I thought The Atlantic piece was very on-point and only bitched with good reason.

[quote]Has there been any discussion of Carrie being a mother?

A lot since that sad orange parcahute on the bridge. She looked six months. Nice up do, though.

Don't call the Parischute a parachute. That was Dior!

So was Paris CGI? Fooled me, if it was.

Nope. SJP and Chris Noth got a free trip on HBO's dime.

In real life, those ashes would’ve gotten all over her giant dress. With a gust of wind, it would’ve ended up in Her face and she would’ve tripped. That’s how it should’ve gone.

The casting of rabbi jenn was more overpromotion of this bs identity. End days.

I'd say it's 60/40 that Season 2 happens. SJP wants it, MPK wants it, now it just needs HBO to say yes.

Realistically, what do you think will happen? I do not think Sara Ramirez will return. She knows the character is LOATHED by the audience. She'd have to be a true masochist to sign up for more.

I don't get all the Jewish jokes this season...Anthony dates a guy who out of nowhere says the Holocaust never happened, then Anthony bakes a sourdough challah (gross) and says it doesn't matter whether the beefcake strippers handing them out are Jewish because they're "cut" and that's close enough. Jews seem like a bigger blindspot to SATC/AJLT than people of color; all the women were given the WASPiest names imaginable and despite working in fields like PR, the art world, publishing and law they barely interact with Jews until Charlotte meets Harry, who of course is depicted as a cheap, unattractive schlub.

If they want Ramirez back, would she say no? She hasn’t done much since her time on Grey’s Anatomy ended.

I wish the gendarme had arrested Carrie for littering.

Throwing dead people into urban rivers is what the mafia does.

r96 How dare you? Charlotte had a zsa-zsa-Jew!

The dilemma for HBO is do they want another series as badly written as this one? But, the PT Barnum business model worked for them in streaming.

Carrie disposed of Big’s ashes in Paris because of what it meant to him?

Paris was where Big first met Natasha.

I thought it was interesting that Rock also stated they DIDN'T want to be pigeonholed as non-binary.

The "Fraus over at Primetimer" (stole that from another poster, thanks!) were incensed, INCENSED that Rock didn't respect tradition (!!) and were adamant that Rock should've been dragged kicking and screaming up there, but I thought there was actually an interesting character idea to explore here, it's just WAY beyond the abilities of Mattress Pikelet King (also stolen). About children desperately trying to not be influenced by anything in order to become what they think is their truly authentic self. I don't think that's so unusual for teens, even without gender identity issues. And yet, as we all know, as we grow up we go: "Oh yeah I sounded just like my mum/dad/grandmother" then, and we recognise more and more how we've been shaped by others.

I just watched it. The only real laugh for me was Harry trying to bribe Rose. Very funny.

The Atlantic article, being well argued and being in The Atlantic, will make for a lot of discomfort.

[quote] Someone shove it in Cynthia's face.

Davis said in an interview recently that Nixon was the only one who read all the reviews, so I be she will see this.

[quote]The dilemma for HBO is do they want another series as badly written as this one? But, the PT Barnum business model worked for them in streaming.

The problem HBO must know it faces is that the first season was a success because of so much pent-up goodwill for the Sex and the City series, not the hated movies.

But And Just Like That was more akin to the movies, only even worse. So the brand is tarnished.

HBO will know that not nearly as many people will be looking forward to season 2 as they were to season 1.

A 31% audience approval rating on Rotten Tomatoes is shockingly bad for a show that had been loved.

HBO doesn't care about a tarnished brand or legacy, they care about money.

If Rose didn't want to be Bas Mitzvahed, why did she go through with the preparations? It's not expected of girls as it is of boys.

[quote]I thought the Paris scene was more shitty green screen. Did they actually go?

Yes, and they originally filmed much more than the one scene shown – problem being that all of them including Cancelled Chris Noth & had to be cut, leaving only Carrie's one reference to seeing Big "in a dream." (Spy shots of them filming the sequence along the Seine last year showed Big actively participating in multiple nights of shooting.) Also, considering they shelled out $1M per ep for Nixon & Davis – and more like $3M for SJP – a Paris location shoot was practically a bargain in contrast.

[quote]They should reconceptualize and recast it like the new Queer as Folk.

Already did that. The show was called "Girls," and it had a *way* hotter gay BFF than Mario Cantone (plus a far more realistic depiction of twentysomething life in NYC, one that didn't include absurdly expensive clothes & apartments no weekly columnist could possibly afford.

[quote]I still can't get over a New Yorker with an established career quitting her paying gig and MOVING to LA over just getting a fucking pilot.

The Atlantic article someone posted already covered most of the absurdity relative to Miranda, but just FYI she announced in the premiere that she'd quit her corporate law job – saying she'd already "saved more money than she'd ever need" – in order to go back & get her MA at Columbia and pursue a little-to-no-paying vocation as a human rights lawyer. (Note the reference to her giving up an internship at Human Rights Watch, something that in real life would never happen to anyone over 30.)

[quote]The absurd dress on the bridge in Paris summarizes this... what idiot would wear that costume in public anywhere, let alone walking on the dirty sidewalks of Paris.

The opening credits of SATC featured SJP walking around in an utterly ridiculous tutu – and she busted out a slightly more modest version of it again for AJLT – and you're seriously questioning why Carrie would wear something OTT in Paris, for fuck's sake?? (To her credit I'm assuming it was actual French haute couture.)

[quote]I don't get all the Jewish jokes this season

Like much of the show, it evolved from New York-based writers enjoying the smell of their own farts, and not realizing that most viewers have no knowledge of Jewish culture, nor any interest in learning about it. If anything the only good part of that whole storyline was Miranda's amazement that Carrie believed in any of that religious bullshit in the first place, assuming that she – like Miranda – was an atheist. Also one of the few truly authentic moments re: Miranda's character generally throughout the show.

[quote]The dilemma for HBO is do they want another series as badly written as this one?

They're *really* desperate for original programming, at least in the face of the unstoppable juggernaut that is Disney / Lucasfilm / Marvel. The "Gossip Girl" reboot was almost as bad (and even worse in terms of overcompensating re: millennial / Gen Z expectations for diversity in every conceivable fashion), and it's already been quietly renewed for S3. (Not sure if that tidbit's been made public yet, but IYKYK.)

[quote]But And Just Like That was more akin to the movies, only even worse.

Not even this shitfest could top SATC2, one of the biggest cinematic shitfests of the 21st century. But it came close.

[quote]If Rose didn't want to be Bas Mitzvahed, why did she go through with the preparations? It's not expected of girls as it is of boys.

Bad writing? How hard would it have been to have Rock tell Anthony in the scene where she was playing video games that she didn't want to do it, that she'd been telling her parents for ages, but Charlotte was just steam rolling over all that. Charlotte hears "I don't want to do it" and thinks it's due to Rock's identity, so instead goes all out to provide a trans-friendly, nonbinary bat-mitzvah (or as she said "they-mitzvah"). I can see Charlotte doing that thinking she was doing the right thing.

If challah is just bread what's wrong with making it sourdough? What's it supposed to taste like?

Che falling in love with Miranda after 3 weeks of fucking is not believable. I kept waiting for Che to dump her for being too high maintenance. Or Miranda finding Che eating out another woman.

The 'they mitzvah' really highlighted what ineffectual parents Harry and Charlotte were. When you're a child in a family, it's not just about having your parents provide for your every need and desire. It's also about playing your part, being a credit to the family and not embarrassing them or shaming them, no matter how self-important or angsty a teen might feel. To me, Rose was more like a four year old throwing a tanty than someone who had made a rational considered decision. She made her parents look bad.

Even the Bundys understood that.

I love when Carrie asked Miranda what she was going to do all day in LA.

"What are you going to do over there without your job, eat croissant?" becomes "What are you going to do in LA all day, sit in an audience and laugh?"

R33 But Rabbi Jen is the fountain of knowledge...he is there to be a guiding light and show the dumbass cisgender ladies the error of their ways. Seems to be the M.O of every new character in this show

I didn't mind Rabbi Jen at all. She did seem to be written like many of those types of characters in the original show - the ones who may as well be hitting Carrie and the girls over the head with an anvil, but that is standard for this show.

On the documentary Kristin D looked good when rehearsing and practicing for the tennis episode. The costumers must really hate her as they made her look awful throughout most of the season.

I swear in the final episode it looked like Kristin had had some sort of surgery between scenes. In the early scenes she looked less, uh, pulled than she did at the mitzvah.

Also, who invites their friends to Paris and then when one can't come you tell the other the offer is rescinded? Within like a 10 minute period even? If I were Charlotte all I'd be able to think is that Carrie doesn't want to be around me without others there.

The best ashes disposal scene is in the Big Lebowski. You can’t top that. Still, she should have used a Folgers can instead of that ridiculous Eiffel Tower bag. easier to open too….

SATC has done well in syndication. This crapfest probably won't. That may be one consideration for HBO. It's also far more expensive than "Divorce"

[quote]SATC has done well in syndication.

Does this mean the actors still get paid for the original series too? Or just the creators?

In 10 episodes Miranda gives up her corporate career for a masters (of some kind) in human rights, dumps her husband for a mean nonbinary comedian, gives up a competitive internship in her field to go to LA while said comedian films a pilot that will likely go nowhere. She is also initially incapable of talking to black people, is forced to dispose of her son's used condom, and pursues sexual gratification over taking care of her incapacitated friend. And she seemingly has no relationship with her son. At least Charlotte is still the same character and talks to her kids.

^also, I called Steve “retard” in E8, but that was edited out.

R67 that dress sure didn’t look orange in that scene.

I thought perhaps Carrie went to Paris to scatter Big's ashes because that's where he showed up to "rescue" her from the Russian, and they rekindled. Or am I misremembering that whole series of events?

They do, R22. I watched the documentary and they have a behind the scenes section at the end where they document when it was shot. There's a camera to her right filming her when she shakes the ashes out and they do blow back into her face. And she also mentions that she's covered with ashes as she's walking off the set.

Another takeaway from the documentary. She's responsible for most of the looks in AJLT.

[quote]If challah is just bread what's wrong with making it sourdough? What's it supposed to taste like?

That's one of those innocent questions/asides that will push this topic to a flamewar between two posters for at least ten more threads. The Gilded Age is at thread 77, over the of the width of lace.

Baking a challah with sourdough is like baking an apple pie with cherries.

"A source told the publication: "Kim never wanted to really do the movie to begin with."It was a combination of not great money and a bad storyline for Samantha. It was a bad script."

Considering the bitchy quotes of the last week, who'd hold a grudge over that?

"John Corbett has drawn the ire of at least one “And Just Like That...” writer after the “Sex and the City” alum teased the return of his character, Carrie Bradshaw’s (Sarah Jessica Parker) ex-fiancй Aidan Shaw, in the polarizing HBO Max revival — and never showed up. “John Corbett should be writing personal apology notes,” Julie Rottenberg told Deadline timed to this week’s season finale."

John Corbett sustained interest that would not otherwise be there.

They should be donning knee pads and blowing him for that small gift.

An earlier Atlantic review, worth a reread.

Sorry for being dense - but why can't a podcast involve a call-in dating advice format?

HBO Max offers to renew, but takes advantage of the bad buzz to low ball MPK/SJP and their pride wouldn't let them take the offer.

HBO should NOT renew. Throw money at better quality shows like Station Elevan, etc.

The most unforgivable thing this season is CN/Miranda wearing a wig instead of fake teeth.

Lets throw Big's ashes in the filthy Paris water. Yes Paris, the place where Big met Natasha. So much better than being surrounded by all the people he loved in life.

When they were talking about bad breakups at the beginning I was sure carrie was going to refer to being broken up on a post it note.

R136, my husband DIED !!! OKAY????? Doesn't that count for something??? Even a year later???

I still have a lot of my husband's ashes. I just couldn't decide where, cause he traveled so much and people in so many places loved him and cared for him. And it was such a big dilemma. I am eternally grateful to the friend who finally stated the big, obvious, honking fact: they're ashes. They don't have to be in ONE big place. And now I and various friends have scattered him in a number of places that he loved and that were important to him.

I think it was super tacky of Carrie to admit to Big's brother that the ashes were in a box on a shelf next to some of her favorite shoes. WTF??

Anyone in their right mind would answer simply "I have him at home".

Honestly, r139, I kind of got that. She was saying, he's not just on some shelf. He's somewhere that matters to me, that has a little meaning to me, even if it's sort of silly.

Also, what kind of a crypt only holds five?

I did kinda like the way Carrie reacts when he asks her where Big is, and she tells him, gently, that he died. It was cute, seeing her think: "oh god, is Big's brother coming down with alzheimer's?"

[quote]I did kinda like the way Carrie reacts when he asks her where Big is

She should have said, "He's at Costco, Rose."

agree r142. Plus it's really a stupid way to phrase the question. Especially when somebody is obviously pausing and not getting it. Where is the body? Where are the ashes? Not "where is John"? Jesus, bitch, read the room even when the room is one person.

You fucks don’t have a clue. Of course it’s getting a second season

I can’t get over SJP’s level of cuntitude. Everybody knew that for Kim Cattrall the main problem was money and the lack of control over the storylines. Everybody knows Kim was pushing for the equal pay or at least a pay increase, and that SJP said: not on my watch. They must have known it was making them look bad, hence the highly publicized pay increase and EP credits for Davis and Nixon. And this is a show about female friendship, after all. So much was made of the unequal pay on The X-Files, even though Duchovny was not a producer and had no influence over what Anderson was paid, it is often being brought up as an example of men always trying to underpay women. Here you have proof that women are as bad as men when it comes to money, and even cuntier.

[quote]Rabbi Jen seemed like she was in a different show from everyone else.

So did I, R85.

Me too.

I don't even rate a mention . Where's my text message Carrie?

This will get a 2nd season.

R135, no way. This was such a disaster that I don’t think she’d let it go out like that. I predict it’ll be back totally retooled.

I hope it will be fixed. The team is talente enoughto deliver he show they're trying to write.

isn't talented enough - sorry.

This reboot should be a cautionary tale to entertainment companies. A vocal minority on social media is just that. They shouldn’t control a multi million dollar project. Friends, Seinfeld, SATC etc.. wouldn’t be the same shows with different casts or forced diversity. AJLT should’ve been true to their characters, SATC as well as their original target audience. I’m willing to bet the critics of the original show aren’t watching this one either.

I couldn't read the phone. Who was she texting and if it was supposed to be Sam was she texting back?

Which part?

She texted Samantha, "I'm in Paris. Do you want to grab a drink?" Samantha replied, "How's tomorrow night?" Carrie responded, "FABULOUS".

But then, when we saw Carrie again, she didn't mention how it went. Lame.

R30 Sadly, I continued to watch during the end credits and they did have a Paris unit.

Mario Cantone stands with Whoopi Goldberg - I say good! It shows more backbone to stand with a friend who fucks up that to throw them to the wolves.

Poor Kim. SJP and King keep dragging her back into a fucking drama that Kim has absolutely zero interest in being a part of...but their egos are so fragile they gotta keep bitching about her not wanting to deal with their foolish shit.

Kim rather nicely made it clear that she was done with the role and the show and suggested they recast her. Hasn't said anything else since then and gone on to do other projects.

Who's the classy one here?

[quote] And finally they dress Charlotte in something that doesn't accentuate those hips.

I thought Charlotte looked good in those dresses. She doesn’t have an anorexic dancer body like SJP.

[quote] In real life, those ashes would’ve gotten all over her giant dress. With a gust of wind, it would’ve ended up in Her face and she would’ve tripped. That’s how it should’ve gone.

Also, people in Paris don’t dress like that. It’s like when that sanitised movie An Education came out and women wanted to dress in 60s shifts like the Carey Mulligan character and walk the Seine. She and SJP scream tourist, like that Southern woman in OG SATC with a scrunchie and a Chanel suit.

Parisian women don’t blow out their hair, wear lots of makeup or have matching shoes and bags either.

I thought the OG was diverse enough. Charlotte had sex with a Hasidic Jew and married Harry who refused to marry her until she converted, Miranda had a black live-in bf, and Samantha had black neighbours (the tranny hookers), a Latina gf and black bf whose sister was adamantly racist. Carrie had a Jewish bf (the guy who didn't last long enough).

Plus gays, another minority group, were well represented in the form of permanent characters Stanford and Anthony.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Do I need to watch this show?

[Quote] and black bf whose sister was adamantly racist.

That episode has not aged well and there have been quite a few articles about it.

I don't see anything wrong with it, R165. It's no different than Harry insisting he has to marry a Jew. People invest a lot in their family - time, emotion, resources. They are entitled to be selective.

PROBLEMATICAL!

R134, podcasts are not broadcast live.

MOST podcasts aren't live. There are some that are, or there may be a special episode that is done live, and can take callers, or questions online. There are quite a few podcasts that use a call in format.

Some podcasts are recorded in studios, some (probably most) are done at home with a computer and a microphone. There is software that podcasters can use to help facilitate a call-in podcast.

There are also podcasts that allow people to call a number to prerecord a question to be answered on a later episode.

Podcasts are very flexible. Carrie could have been doing a live cast at the end of the episode, or she could have been recording the episode for later release.

KC is reminding me of Maria Callas NOT going to a party thrown by Elsa Maxwell in Callas’s honor, because her absence would get her more press than her attendance would.

Someone on Twitter mentioned that the setup for the podcast in the massive room and multiple producers and researchers on hand cheering them on was more like a Sirius radio show or Howard Stern level and not like how normal podcasts are made. Even in podcasts hosted by famous actors, they’re all crammed in one room with some static cameras.

"I still can't get over a New Yorker with an established career quitting her paying gig and MOVING to LA over just getting a fucking pilot."

I think at one point she says she only has to be there a month. But as others have said, no matter the length of time, how come she can't do the podcast when in LA?

When telling Carrie, Franklyn, & Bobby of her plans, Cheryl did say she had pretty much accomplished all that she wanted to with the podcast and was ready to end it/move on.

[quote]When telling Carrie, Franklyn, & Bobby of her plans, Cheryl did say she had pretty much accomplished all that she wanted to with the podcast and was ready to end it/move on.

I know Che is the boss and it's perfectly fine to move on, but the way they said it was so blunt and when that one guy was like: "Oh, you're not doing a bit?" you could feel that. Their exciting news meant others were out of a job, which is what happens sometimes, but they just didn't really seem to be considering anyone else for even a moment. Like with announcing the news to everyone after singing. Che seems very self-centred.

Che's impulsive response to the pilot possibly changing her life and their disregard for their work and personal relationships seemed totally in character. I'm surprised this plot point is picked on so much. They are ready to move on throwing caution to the wind.

The writers are obviously self-centered, unself-aware people who insert themselves into the characters, so of course, Che is as clueless as they've made everyone else.

Of course it will get a second season. No matter its flaws people are watching. That's the bottom line. People are hate watching but they are watching.

I don't know who is dressing Charlotte but she always looks like a stuffed sausage and that pink thing she wore to the batmitzvah looked horrible on her. She looked like mutton dressed as lamb.

Samantha would have never been Carrie's publicist, she didn't rep writers, certainly not tabloid newspaper columnists/Vogue freelancers. Carrie only had one book, not enough to warrant her own publicist beyond the publisher's marketing/communications team. Even if Samantha had helped her out here and there, she wouldn't have made any money, so if Carrie dropped her it would have been a drop in the bucket.

I'm of a mixed view on that theory, R177. HBO takes pride in the quality of its programming and there's a ton of competition. It is a subscription service that needs to lure new subscriptions and you do that by reputation. We all watched, for whatever reason. If everything next year sounds in the pre-press like more of this year, I won't watch, I'll rely on you guys to rip it apart and be more entertained by here than that.

This show was watched, but it was not popular it seems with viewers or critics. If we're shanking it with the general level of intelligence around here, how is your average Magnolia cupcake frau feeling after ten episodes of that dreck? It will be back. No question. The question is, if it doesn't change, can it get a series three?

[quote]This show was watched, but it was not popular it seems with viewers or critics.

Datalounge notwithstanding, most people don't continue to watch something they do not enjoy

Its well-watched, but that has to be balanced against the cost of production.

I agree, but my point is it will get a second look next year, based on the high numbers and higher hopes of people who remembered a show they did enjoy.

After series two it becomes a sustainable value for HBO or a money loser. If SJP is getting 3M per episode and the ugly step-sisters 1M each, that's a lot of money to pour down the rathole in a competitive environment.

At a minimum I predict next year Che is gone - there is no sympathy for the twists and turns of that freakshow between they and Miranda - and Naya is gone as well. It's evident now that once Nixon demanded Cheynoble's index finger point Miranda to self-actualization that Naya was left high and dry, stranded in a storyline they didn't have the balls to bail on.

If HBO will not renew it, I could see another streaming competitor swooping it up.

It will get a second season, but if the second season doesn't do a lot better with critics and fans, there won't be a third.

It bears repeating that you can tell how SJP and MPK viewed the Kim situation with the cunty way they wrote off her character. Once I heard that, I knew Kim was speaking the truth.

Samantha would have made no sense in this reboot, even if KC was up for it.

There were a lot of ways they could have written Samantha off. Having it be bitchy petulance over money shows you how they viewed Kim's complaints.

It would have made total sense for Sam to have moved back out to LA permanently to grow her business or to have retired somewhere fabulous like London. Since it's been 12 years since the last movie, she could have slowly fallen out of touch with the girls during that time. Hell, killing her from cancer would have been more respectful than having her end her New York life and drop all her friends in a petty dispute over money, especially since Samantha was shown as never caring that much about money.

HBO may want a second season, under certain conditions. The three lead actresses and MPK may be willing to do a second season under certain conditions. There is no guarantee that that all of these will align and a second season will be made. The one taking the most heat from the reboot, Cynthia Nixon, is also the one known to read the reviews, and also the one with the best career otherwise. Would they make a season 2 without CN?

They set it up to easily have a season 2 without CN. Her character sucked in S1, so people won't miss her, and they can just say that she stayed in California with Shady Ass. Brunch can be Charlotte, Carrie, LTW, and Seema. Or a newly single professor can ask Carrie for advice or something, if they want to keep her around.

They have set up the reboot to be a completely different show, which was a good idea. They can bring in two new friends. People seem to like LTW and Seema.

There’s potential. They just really need to work on the writing.

“The Golden Girls” worked partly because the women were new-ish friends. There was a lot to explore.

It's fascinating that, in a way, Cynthia Nixon now has more power than SJP. Something tells me the behind the scenes dynamics weren't as rosy as the sanitized "documentary" told us.

Supposedly SJP was unhappy after episode 1. Carrie had the most embarrassing clothes, but Miranda had the worst wig and plot lines.

Discovering Nya was initially meant to be Miranda's love interest explains so much about many of the problems in what we actually saw in Miranda's plot. I would've much rather seen what was originally imagined.

I wonder what the vibe was between Nixon and Pittman on the set once she realized her character and storyline she'd signed up for had been jettisoned.

If CN didn’t like having two straight women fall for one another, they should have just made Nya be a lesbian and ditched the storyline involving her husband and the pregnancy attempts. It’s not like anyone cared about that plot line anyway.

I think the explanation about Samantha made total sense. They couldn’t have had her only move away because then they’d also have to explain her not flying in to attend Big’s funeral or Rock’s They Mitzvah. There had to be a falling out to explain her continued absence at major life events. And given how much these characters had gotten through together, falling out over money seems like a reasonable explanation for things falling apart. Had they wanted to do Samantha/KC dirty they’d have killed her off or said she’d developed a drug problem. Instead, they sent her off to live her own life in London.

I wonder if part of the reason Nixon wanted her love interest to be butch was to have her character stay in the male/female dynamic where Miranda is sought after as the piece of ass by someone like Che. She wanted a love interest that was hot for her, someone that couldn't wait to seduce and fuck her. In relationship with the professor who gets to be the one so hot for the other they can't stand it?

In the original series, Samantha offers to help Carrie professionally and Carrie says she can't afford Samantha's prices. Samantha merely winks and says: "It'll cost you a dinner and two cocktails" or something like that.

It makes zero sense for the character to be behaving as they have now written her.

I thought Carrie had multiple books published r179. In one of the movies (I think) she is shown arranging the books on a shelf.

[quote]Would they make a season 2 without CN?

Pretty please with sugar on top!

I think I said it before, but I would actually watch a show with just Carrie in it now (I hated her character in the original). Being single in New York, meeting lots of new people that she may not normally as her old friendship group has dissipated. Doing her "podcast".

It wouldn't have to be a show with only Carrie just cut down on the appearances of Charlotte and Miranda, or just lose Miranda.

Given how Carrie treated Charlotte in the final, re: Paris, if Miranda doesn't come back, she'll probably just dump Charlotte anyway.

Samantha's settled in London. Mirnythia Nixobs is playing pull my finger in Lala land, never to be seen again.

Carrie, Charlotte, LTW and Seema living in New York (which really didn't feel like much of a character at all in this series, for all they bang on about it. Maybe it went to London too. Or died.)

Good show.

Another vote for Season 2 with only SJP returning and maybe one episode each for Nixon and Davis to guest star. SJP desperately needs some real new blood to energize her.

The likelihood of Carrie landing someone who looked like her producer and wasn't a fortune hunter is nil. Realistically, they should have shown her on dates with dyspeptic old codgers wearing navy blazers and sockless loafers, talking about their yachts and how well they did under Trump..

I’m watching the episode of Miranda’s mother’s funeral, and Carrie was so appropriate.y dressed. I don’t mind the crazy outfit shit, but please be appropriate for stuff like that!

Btw, the original show is great. No argument.

Che was so physically repulsive, built like a refrigerator, with the bizarre, greasy hairstyle. And she obviously thought of herself as hot shit. Reminded me of nearly every lesbian in every dyke bar I have ever seen. Typical dykes on bikes shit.

And how does Cynthia Nixon work with a mouthful of grey-brown snaggleteeth?

It seems like Cynthia was given enough rope. She got what she wanted and no one wants to see her now.

We don't need a second season of ajlt. Based on all the comments over the 9 threads, a Che Diaz spinoff is what would satiate us DL cunts.

Thread 8 ended exactly when the show did. It would have been nice to let it go that way.

The documentary is a total circle jerk. MPK is just what you'd expect--an obsequious, preening queen whose face is not aging well. SJP and the costumer both seem to have horrible taste. The writers clearly use their own experiences whether they're a good idea or not.

I bet MPK and Andy Cohen are frenemies. They seem well matched.

R205, that would be funny and is precisely what would have happened in the original SATC, not this morose sob-com.

R206, and isn’t that the one with Samantha’s hot daddy gymnast?

Cynthia Nixon seems to have over estimated her appeal. Still can't believe she got into politics.

I've got chills. They're multiplyin'!

Even if there is a Season 2, who would want to see Miranda now? She comes off as a selfish bitch who left her husband and teenage son for a fling.

It might have been a little better if they'd made Brady the age he is supposed to be, 20. But he's still in high school, and his mother chose non-binary nookie over him. On top of that, she ditched her burgeoning career as a human rights activist to sit in the audience of a sitcom. The old Miranda would have kicked this one in the cunt.

Samantha Irby seems like a really bad fit. According to those who listened to the behind the scenes stuff, she is always saying how she didn't like the original show. Then why write for the reboot? Solely to "fix" what she saw as the problem. And she did a shit job for her part of it. Still, the thing is, she isn't the only one, and some of the other writers were writers on the original, so what was going on there too? The writers room was so poorly put together.

The episode starts with Carrie saying “My husband died!” It’s a meme. The audience just isn’t in on the joke.

The writers really thought we’d love Che so much we’d want to see them sing.

Charlotte’s acting during that “Someone is getting they mitzvah today!” scene was horrendous.

Strange that Nixon thought two straight women falling in love was unbelievable. I thought she, herself, identified as straight when she got married. Ironic that in order to be more inclusive they had to sideline a black woman.

Was there really no other way to show any of the Paris scenes without Chris Noth? It’s so unexplained why Carrie chose Paris to rest his ashes. Big in the original show still took his mother to church because of tradition. One of their many conflicts was that he was not the romantic type. I find it hard to believe he wanted to be in Paris. If the Prestons have a family plot, that’s where he expected to go.

I don’t mind the fashion. Carrie has always been a little wacky. I just don’t think she would carry on with the large skirts and dresses at her age, especially after hip surgery.

Cynthia Nixon was out over her skis with her demands and looks ridiculous. SJP looks petty as always. Poor Kristen Davis looks like she looks. Keep it classy, Kim.

They just will not shut up about Kim, and whatever the truth of the matter is, it looks really tacky and makes Kim look so much better. All she did was admit on Piers Morgan that they were colleagues, not friends (seems reasonable), and did say she thought SJP could've been a bit nicer, and remember this was the time where there was almost this constant public shaming of Kim for not wanting to come back to the role and attempted manipulation. Then she flipped out once when her brother died.

On the other hand, SJP and MPK keep going on and on and on and on and on and on and on about Kim.

Kristin is just happy for the last high-paying gig she'll ever get. Hope she has a good investment counselor.

I just thought 90% of it was the classic writing mistake of telling, not showing.

R205, who plays the producer? I honestly didn’t watch any of it, but kept up here and there with these threads.

I am one who didn’t think this needed a revival. However, I think I would watch if they dropped Charlotte and Miranda and evolved Carrie like someone upthread suggested. Maybe deglamorize a little, maybe change the NY setting. Something new.

[quote] The costumers must really hate her (Davis) as they made her look awful throughout most of the season.

I watched the series closely for the clothes:

Carrie’s were per usual: as someone mentioned above, wacky with an over-the-top flair. I’m reminded of SJP’s Met Gala fashion throughout the years. Do believe she’s so attached to this character that she’s melded parts of herself to it.

Miranda’s was often on the dowdy....to almost frumpy side. Interesting to see this given she was a student in AJLT and a revived sexual creature in liaisons with an entirely “out of the box” nonbinary character. Seemed a juxtaposition.

Charlotte’s fashion was inexplicable. For the most part, she wore clothing that seemed jarring to Davis’ figure and the character of an upper-crust-Mom. Notable that it was in contrast to the character of LTW. Davis was inevitably placed in belted dresses which emphasized Kristin’s waist (or lack thereof), and enhanced her “refrigerator-like” figure. The tennis outfit again was not flattering. She wore bizarre sweaters/tops (although the pink sweater she wore at the lobster place scene was not unflattering: but we only observed her from the mid-chest up). The They-Mitzvah-dress was an abomination. Combine this with the odd enunciation Davis continued throughout the series (medical issue? poor plastic surgery? ), this did nothing to enhance or promote Davis. It was distracting -rather than the potential to elevate - her performance.

Did SJP promote her appearance at the expense (literally and figuratively?) of her co-stars?

Kristin Davis' face was unfortunate and no she isn't the best actress but I felt like Charlotte was most in character of the original SATC. Carrie was pretty much the same. Miranda was where they went off the rails and I hope she doesn't come back.

Only if it is THIS Fandango:

[quote]wacky with an over-the-top flair

Jesus Christ are you retarded R226.

R174 She's knee deep in identity politics bullshit. Being self centered is what it's all about.

Charlotte was my favourite character in the original. With her upbringing, she could have been a Mean Girl, but she was sweet and sunny-natured. But she partied away her 20s instead of settling down when she had the most choice in her mid-20s, and her quest to find a life partner became increasingly frustrating and disappointing. Her marriage to Trey was a real defeat. She settled for kind Harry, someone she never would have looked at before.

This season's Charlotte is a baffling, boring waste of time, with her jabbering on about nothing, her spoiled kids, and her silly quest to befriend another mom at her kids' exclusive school. Her daffy behaviour seems unhinged; is she channelling Lucy? But I liked when she gave Miranda a truthful assessment at the picnic.

I'd have to see the contracts before I'll believe they paid Kristin Davis a million an episode...or, even Nixon for that matter.

And, even SJP's $3m an episode seems ludicrous.

Davis probably would have done it for $50k an episode.

Really, if they do decide to do a 2nd season, they could and should just bring Carrie back full time with Miranda and Charlotte reduced to recurring.

As I said in a previous thread, give Carrie a NEW threesome of gal pals where SHE is the wise older gal mentoring 3 younger gals.

And, just send Samantha to Australia with a new husband. Stafford goes to visit them at their emu ranch and some sort of horrible tragedy kills them all. Like Che's airplane crashes into the ranch house. Maybe Miranda is on board, too.

Problems solved.

[quote]And, just send Samantha to Australia with a new husband. Stafford goes to visit them at their emu ranch and some sort of horrible tragedy kills them all. Like Che's airplane crashes into the ranch house. Maybe Miranda is on board, too.

This is too subtle for this particular group of writers.

Poor Stafford. He's well remembered.

Someone wants to have a word with you R233

I believe those salary figures, r232, were hypothetical, used to present an argument.

And Just Like That....I destroyed the legacy of an iconic television show with a legion of fans....with my stupidity, hubris and colossal ego.

Carrie texts Samantha, saying she's in Paris, and let's meet for cocktails.

But Samantha's in London.

Do people get cocktails together where they have to get on a plane to do so?

You can also get the train from London to Paris R239, and these people are supposed to be so wealthy that it's not a big deal to arrange it.

It's something like 2 hours by train from Paris to London.

Paris to London doesn't require any forethought -- or money.

in addition to Eurostar trains, you can book a one-way flight from Paris to London (1 hour 5 minutes) for tomorrow (<24 hrs) for €49.

Or dozens of flight choices similar in time and price.

It might be the one detail AJLT got right.

Why bring this thing back with SJP and other cast? She's a big part of the problem--not just the clothes but her whole self-centered manner. And what will she do--probably stuff like throw over someone with nonobvious gaping flaws (the teacher) for her producer (what happens when that ends)? That's fine in someone who is in their 20s or even 30, but just seems crazy for someone in their 50s.

r242

I love that you can travel so cheaply in europe... I wish it were the same in the USA

R244 you can get an Amtrak ticket between DC and NYC for the same price as the Eurostar. You can usually find airfare between New York and LA for under $200.

The US is richer than Europe, though. Things will cost more here, including travel.

Also, the cheap flights in Europe are on airlines that make Spirit Airlines look like first class.

R246: I don't know how it compares to Sprirt Airlines but budget airline EasyJet was indeed the €49 flight in my example above; Vueling, however, has flights for €54 and operates as a proper full service airline; and British AIrways has flights from €84. (All prices mentioned are one-way for a ticket bought less than 24-hours in advance.)

A quick search for one-way flights tomorrow from major U.S. cities to Chicago shows the lowest options in a range from €177 to €300. Flying to/from NYC to a major U.S. city is relatively reasonable in cost (see R245 example of a NYC-LA fare for under $200) but gets expensive outside for travel outside three or four major cities. In Europe and Asia travel between smaller cities is more reasonably priced.

The higher prices in the U.S. owe not to America's riches but to its lack of competition: far fewer airlines and restrictions on which airlines to fly to which cities. The EU and parts of Asia enjoy lower priced fares because of open-skies agreements and competition.

R247: There are no restrictions on where US airlines can fly domestically. The US has numerous budget carriers which tend to serve tourist destinations, but some also serve business destinations as well. Other than some subsidies to remote locations, there is very little direct regulation of where airlines fly.

Your price quotes are for flights in the near future---prices vary seasonally and and usually are better if you book a month or so ahead of time or much earlier than that. It's also very cheap to travel in Jan & Feb unless you're going to classic "snowbird" destinations.

Uh.....perhaps this thread has come to an end?

And just like that...there's nothing left to talk about. (Thank God!)

Wasn't that polka dotted elevator background in the last scene used as a background somewhere else?

I know my taste level is questionable, but that tangerine gown and those fuchsia gloves looked like a Carrie dress and something in her reality. I loved it. Looked like Valentino or maybe Dior.

[quote]On the other hand, SJP and MPK keep going on and on and on and on and on and on and on about Kim.

Because they keep getting asked about Kim over and over and over and over and over and over and over again.

MPK's publicist to reporter ahead of interview: "Michael doesn't want to talk about that slag Kim. So please don't ask about that nasty cunt slut Kim. We have been over her nasty putrid face already. So no Kim questions. But if you ask one, he'll answer."

I think the question is not whether you'd like another season of AJLT but would you want to see these performers in anything again? For me, this was SJP's swan song. The only thing I could stomach seeing her in is as Norma Desmond in a remake of Sunset Boulevard. I could handle the others if they were completely unrecognizable such as Cynthia Nixon playing a maiden aunt in The Gilded Age. Sara Rodriguez is enormously talented but I have no idea where she goes from here. Whoever thought of that smoke ring shtick should be identified and shot.

Why the fuck did they work the Samantha character into (every?) episode? And to end on the note of flying off to London for drinks with her?

I understand the initial explanation of the absence, the flowers at the funeral, the texting after a date (which felt more or less real or at least plausible), but all the Samantha stuff should have stopped with her hanging text response that started and then aborted. More than that was some combination of maudlin regarding the rebooted series, a cruel joke toward the actress who spoiled their money-minting foursome, and craven in keeping alive a hope for viewers of some surprise turn in special guest stars, a/k/a the old band getting together again.

[quote]The only thing I could stomach seeing her in is as Norma Desmond in a remake of Sunset Boulevard.

If you intend to persist with that idea I invite you to glimpse into your future by viewing my other bravura performance in Fatal Attraction.

I think the Samantha texting at the end was to leave viewers with the impression that their friendship was in a good place by the finale. This was originally conceived as a one and done mini-series, so it makes sense they'd want to leave things on a positive note.

I was more surprised to find Carrie the most likable of the main trio this time around. I'd grown to find her insufferable in the last few seasons and movies, but she seemed relatively sane in this.

All the Samantha mentions led me to think they were preparing us for a surprise Kim Catrall cameo, but it seems that she really is done with the show.

I thought they all were insufferable. Miranda is reduced to being an adolescent. Charlotte is shrill and overbearing, And Carrie is just pathologically self-involved. The other characters are either unlikable (Che) or simply under developed (everyone except Che). The men have gotten shafted in the writing---Harry looks unhappy and has nothing much to do, Steve is treated like an old school cripple, Jon Tenney is jerked around by Carrie and Anthony is just annoying.

[quote] The US is richer than Europe, though. Things will cost more here, including travel.

I'm assuming r246 has written many books about economics or transportation. Perhaps he's a professor at UChicago?

[quote] All the Samantha mentions led me to think they were preparing us for a surprise Kim Catrall cameo, but it seems that she really is done with the show.

Is she done with the show or just done with working with this cast? Because I could easily see another spin-off following Samantha in London.

That would take entirely new producers and writers. When you look at the trash talk, it is not just actors.

Here is Kim Cattrall saying “no more” more than four years ago. She hasn’t said otherwise since then.

Interesting to see her view - I hadn’t watched this since it first aired on 2017.

fascinating interview. She seemed sincere and honest.

Yeah I thought so - he pushed and pushed her but she just kept being honest when to bend the truth would have made her seem more sympathetic.

It's funny now the season has passed you realize all the speculation about a return was pointless. She told us how many years ago she was done.

A lot of us were well aware of that.

What’s the gossip about KC from other work? I don’t remember seeing anyone say she was a nightmare to work with, but I am curious if I just missed that.

If there had really been no hard feelings, they'd have explained Samantha's absence in the first episode as Samantha having retired to London and not talked to the girls in a while (not unusual to fall out of touch when you live in a different country). They could have explained her absence at Big's funeral with ongoing COVID restrictions. Show Carrie texting a couple of times and leave it at that. Done. MPK and SJP made it hostile by saying the falling out was over money, when Samantha repeatedly showed generosity and a lack of avarice in the original series.

They made is hostile by making it so close to real life. Kim Cattrall is based in London now, isn't she? The fall out was money related. Poor Carrie thought she was more than just money. It was the only time they added any subtext to their "creativity". Same thing with the post-series publicity. Everybody's talking about the failures and they're distracting with Cattrall.

This thing will probably only go one more series anyway, if that.

If they had planned this as a one-off miniseries, they really should have given Miranda a better ending. If she had to leave Steve and fall in love with a woman or non-binary person okay, but they could have done it so much better than this. Her falling in love with a compassionate but fierce human rights lawyer would have made a helluva lot more sense.

Why is everyone referring to another season of the show as a “series”? We’re in the U.S.

You may be, R273, but not necessarily everybody on the DL.

[quote]Why is everyone referring to another season of the show as a “series”? We’re in the U.S.

Not all of us.

And don't start. Christ, that song and dance gets dull around here. Greatest nation, saved your ass, you'd be speaking German, blah blah blah.

It’s becoming more prevalent, unfortunately R275 and just plays into the trope that Americans are parochial and xenophobic.

Maybe it’s not a trope here.

Actually, the concept of a "television season" is fading away since streaming services took over. New shows/series pop up every month. The whole concept of a TV season which begins in September and runs a year is based on the old days of TV networks. No one really cares (or watches) the networks so that could be another reason season is falling out of favor.

I'm American and I frequently say "series" instead of season.

When Che sang with the band, it was the first time that the character had displayed a glimpse of talent and charisma. I thought Miranda looked really pretty in that scene, but the big sex drive between her and Che is confusing to me. I am 49 and I haven’t felt super horny in a while. Maybe it’s the Prozac.

[quote]I thought Miranda looked really pretty in that scene, but the big sex drive between her and Che is confusing to me.

Because, R278, until the Dykening, nobody had sucked the pink off of Miranda's salmon like CliCHÉ did.

I looked at Kim's imdb, didn't realize that she has been working pretty steadily since the last SATC movie and currently involved with the How I Met Your Father series. None of the projects went on very long but she has been steady making money.

But, R241 and R242....that's like living in LA and your friend you haven't seen in a while says they're in San Francisco, and let's have cocktails. Also a one hour flight. Nobody does that in the US. Why would they do that in Europe??

R281 if it's a good friend you haven't seen in awhile, why not?

Exactly. You wouldn't necessarily get on a 6 hour flight to see someone you were estranged from, but a quick trip like London to Paris? Great excuse.

Europe has luxury high speed rail and we don't. How do you not know this? Now I feel dirty, because it's almost like I'm defending this show.

Sam would often have gone off to Paris or other parts of France for weekends...to buy clothes, to get some sun, to ski, to see a concert.

"You can really tell the writing talent differences between Darren Star and MPK. I'd never call Emily in Paris a great show, but it's charming. There's no charm in AJLT“

I just finished the second season of Emily in Paris. The highlight for me was not Emily but her boss, Sylvie. A 50+ woman, who is in great shape with an active sex life, elegant clothes and making smart business decisions. Now compare Sylvie to the ladies from AJLT as written by MPK … what a difference.

"Exactly. You wouldn't necessarily get on a 6 hour flight to see someone you were estranged from, but a quick trip like London to Paris? Great excuse."

Also, it helps after an hour or so of cocktails to note that "I need to leave to catch my train."

The SJP, CN, and KD are about the same age as the Golden Girls cast when that show started.

There is a way to make a show about women of that age interesting and funny.

But I don't think AJLT was ever interested in "funny".

R288 Being in your 50s in the 80s is not the sam as being in your 50s in the 20s.

Indeed, r288. Being in your 50s now is inexplicably boring.

[quote]The [Emily in Paris] highlight for me was not Emily but her boss, Sylvie. A 50+ woman, who is in great shape with an active sex life, elegant clothes and making smart business decisions. Now compare Sylvie to the ladies from AJLT as written by MPK … what a difference.

Exactly. Comedy. Drama. It could be either or both AND have women who are not stem to stern ridiculous: an art historian having turned hysterical housewife; a successful law partner turned student with all the worldliness for her career years as if she had just fallen off the turnip truck into Non-Binary Save the World Semiotics 101; and the poor fear main one, the glue that binds, blind to anything living in a walk-in closet museum of fucking shoes. Other people mark their lives by education, children, jobs, marriage, divorce, travel, taking on new challenges...nope, just shoes, oh and a podcast!

Dead-in-London Samantha at least was a whole person: self-directed, with a sense of purpose, a career, perspective, a hint of a life outside the ladies' luncheon four-top, and an active sex life as a given - not a point of embarrassment that needed soul-searching and explanation or apology.

Imagine shopping this concept around to producers: I've got 3 50-something women, none of whom are smart or insightful or have a clue what they are doing. They're not funny. They don't work. They have lunch. They dress up. But, unlike Seinfeld where something is made of nothing, with these self-absorbed bitches nothing is made of nothing.

[quote] Nobody does that in the US. Why would they do that in Europe??

Jesus Christ, R281. You need to travel. Or read. Just because nobody does something in the US is the last reason to be confused as to why somebody else does. Fucking hell...

R288... they've said it was a different show, different tone, but they don't have the skills. Charlotte leaking was their idea of funny. Their time with these characters was back in the 00s. These are great characters, flaws and all, and we know them and like them or we wouldn't be pissed off with how these idiots have fucked up the limited opportunity to bring them back. It would be great if this passes in safer hands for series 2.

The train fro Paris to London is a little over 2 hours. Definitely enough time to go there for drinks or dinner.

And the Eurostar, if not the setting for an Agatha Christie period piece, is not like shitty Amtrak; it's pleasant, on-time, and the food won't kill you.

R281 bless your heart!

R281, people with money get on planes for convenience. It's that simple. I'd bet any number of Americans with money would fly from LA to SF for drinks. Well, maybe not from LA but from SF to LA. That's a whole other cultural conundrum.

Miranda dressed creepy. She acted like an adolescent around Che.. She made an ass of herself in class Who was this woman? Not anyone you'd want to spend five minutes with.

Charlotte was the perfect Mom and wife who had no identity apart from that. The best we got was some pushback at Harry about her tennis game.

Where do we start with Carrie? The clothing reminds me of Bette Davis in "Whatever Happened to Baby Jane?" She's frozen in time. The evening gowns and high heels are supposed to be endearing but it doesn't say a lot that her central preoccupation is her closet. The main problem is that whenever she pulls her hair back, she looks like the Cryptkeeper, which is really jarring. I don't care that she's aged but her character hasn't.

Also, who's going to view big, fat, drunken, rapey Chris Noth as the great love of anyone's life? Even without the unfortunate publicity, he's no longer anyone's idea of a dreamboat.

You can tell a show that is all about blowing smoke up the executive producer/star's bony ass/

Agreed, they've totally run this thing into the ground. SJP desperately wanted that last SATC movie, and she got it in long form. She should enjoy the money and the last flurry of publicity and retire the Carrie character.

Even if she got her third movie does anyone doubt she'd have been up for this? She's like Glenn who won't stop playing Norma Desmond.

Whether she likes it or not, AJTL and the 1-2 series it gets will be it for Carrie. There was potential for a longer-running series had they hewed more closely to the sexy, goofy spirit of the original. They could have done some smart commentaries on dating in your 50s and early 60s. That's not what we got, though, and viewers have clearly had enough.

They should have done a redo of The Golden Girls with them instead of what they did. CN could actually play 2 parts, she could be Sophia with the gray wig on and one of the other characters with her own red hair. SJP could be a very shrunken Dorothy & Davis could play Rose. I guess that would leave CN playing Blanch with her own red hair.

The problem with these characters is they aren't the least bit likeable or identifiable anymore. SATC was always fantasy and aspirational, but there were still some things about the characters that straight women and gay men liked and identified with. How do you identify with a narcissistic filthy rich widow? A shrill, selfish lawyer who abandons her family and wants no criticism for it? A Joker-faced trophy wife whose biggest problem is a non-binary kid?

What’s sad is that SJP completely ruined the show’s legacy. The last movie was bad enough. The only way this would’ve worked was spinning Carrie off, creating a new universe for her and making it (somewhat) true to what single women in their late 50s, early 60s experience. I can’t imagine original audience enjoyed this.

R304, I am going to argue they enjoyed it a little or the reaction would have been indifference as opposed to the significant level of criticism. Almost everybody got short shrift except the bizarro prominence of Mirynthia and Cheyrnoble.

To get on Eurostar you have to go through the airport-style security check though, so don’t try to make it sound breezy.

I think it's ridiculous to assume wealthy people would truly hop on an hour plane ride, or a two hour train ride, just to get cocktails, like it's nothing. If that happens, it would be truly for a very special situation, like a wedding or something, not just a happy hour.

I say this as someone who is wealthy. I've hopped on planes for funerals, weddings, class reunions, charity events, fundraisers, and all kinds of specific functions that take some planning, even an impromptu getaway (which also takes some planning). But just for fucking cocktails? That's a stretch. You'd have to be truly desperate for attention or bored out of your skull to agree to that on short notice.

R305, a couple of friends watched the first ep and bailed out. A few others continued even though the thought it was awful. I think the nostalgia factor was a strong pull. If CN wouldn’t have come back without all the woke stuff, they should’ve let her go. For me, I never loved any of the characters, I watched for the storylines, was never really unattached to the characters.

R307, again, it's no big deal to get from London to Paris. In the fictional context of the show, it was a special occasion - two estranged friends were trying to connect again when they were just two hundred odd miles apart. I'm sorry this is so hard for you.

If this had been Steve abandoning his family for a younger woman who "awakened" him by jerking him off in his bar kitchen, would his "bravery" in following a new path be equally praised?

Cynthia knew what cards she was playing.

Yes, it's very easy to get from Paris to London. And I think given the circumstances Carrie would have happily hopped on the Eurostar. But it's still weird to not acknowledge that there's some travel involved. It would be like someone texting Carrie "I'm in Philly! Want to grab drinks?" instead of saying (the far more normal) "I'm in Philly and would love to take the train up to grab a drink with you in NY."

I was really troubled they didn't show Carrie getting to Paris. I mean, how we were supposed to know how she got there? And come to think of it, we never saw her room card. Did she even have a hotel? And we never saw her in a restaurant. Was she hungry?

No. A sprinkle of Big on a plate of Nothing O’s hits the spot!

I'd be really interested to see the week-to-week ratings on this thing. Sure the first episode got big ratings, but did they really keep their audience by the end?

So really, R304, it should have been Carrie who moved to London!

I've gone back to watch the original series which I had seen intermittently back then. I'm almost at the end of the 3rd season, and what I suddenly realized is that the women really don't have much of a relationship with each other, other than through Carrie. At Charlotte's wedding, they are her only bridesmaids, but the way they are portrayed, you would think that Charlotte had closer friends than Samantha and Miranda. Oh, and Carrie's smoking just annoys me, she's offensively doing it anywhere she can, legal or not. I would have hated her.

"What’s sad is that SJP completely ruined the show’s legacy."

I don't think so. The original is still there, rewatchable, and holds up very well. Plus, people seem to separate the original, the movies, and AJLT in their heads. Maybe SJP tarnished the brand a little bit, but I wouldn't say she completely ruined the show's legacy.

R317 The original certainly does not hold very well, its legacy was tarnished already by the first movie, ruined by the second one, and AJLT was just CN, MPK and SJP taking their pants off and shitting all over it.

It's so ironic, I watched a bit of the "documentary" and one of the first things SJP says is she worries about getting it right.

Then I ff'wd and got Kristin, talking about Samantha and then I ff'wd again and when I stopped I was at MPK talking about... Samantha.

So I deleted it.

R281, people do exactly that in the US. I know a number of people who go to L.A. and then make a side trip to SF or LV. You go, you say lets have cocktails or dinner as a joke, but they know you are spending the night and going back to LA in the morning. Or you go in the morning and do a day trip.

I also know people who do similar side trips when they visit NYC.

If you are travelling across the continent or ocean, this is exactly what you do.

R281 is wealthy and cannot believe it. We should say no more.

[quote]Charlotte was the perfect Mom and wife who had no identity apart from that.

This doesn't make for an interesting character but it is true to life for many women.

I love how people think Carrie is just planning to have cocktails.

Doesn't anyone have a sense of humor?

People would travel from Philly to NYC or DC for cocktails.

But fuck those condescending assholes for making us come to them.

I flew this two-bit, horse mouthed hooker to San Francisco for dinner and the opera and thought nothing of it, and that was back in the late 80s!

Betty White and Bea Arthur were 63 and Estelle Getty was 62 and Rue was 51 in 1985 the first year of Golden Girls. Estelle was obviously playing an older character while Betty's Rose and Bea's Dorothy were probably supposed to be around 55 or so when the show started. So, they were playing quite a bit younger (8 years) than their actual ages. Rue was the only one really playing her own age, aproximately.

SJP and Kristin Davis are 56 and Cynthia Nixon is 55. So, their actual age is the same as the aproximate age of Rose and Dorothy when in reality the actresses were older. So, maybe not a totally fair or accurate comparison. And, Carrie, Miranda and Charlotte are sophisticated well off women living in NYC in 2021, not middle class widows/divorcees living in a Miami suburb in 1985.

The fact is, most mid-50s women do not have dynamic lives filled with intriguing possibilities. An exception on SatC was Justin Theroux's mother Wallis, played by Valerie Harper. She was gorgeous, an award-winning documentary filmmaker, married to a gorgeous Brit played by David McCallum, lived in a stunning brownstone, had three sharp, accomplished adult children. She was smart, funny, down to earth and warm. A show about her life would be interesting.

The characters on AJLT are no longer aspirational. Who would want to live their lives?

R316 - yes i rewatched the series too and hated her smoking. the worst was when she was in Paris in a cafe smoking and eating cakes.

anther thing i noticed is that it seemed to be Samantha who was the one who kept saying Carrie was fabulous. Poor Kim should have got the Emmy for that acting.

On a rewatch of the original series I did a couple of years ago, I specifically remember that it was season 4 where the mood started to change; where everyone was telling Carrie how fabulous she was, where Carrie started balking at the idea she wrote about sex and in general being almost quite prudish about sex. She was no longer the same Carrie who giggled alongside her male friend who was showing her his hidden camera conquests, she was now freaking out because Samantha was fantasising about a priest.

Someone said before that it was never the same after the WTC attacks, and while I think it was on its way to something different in the lead up to that, it really did seem to take a turn afterwards.

I will admit, I don't really mind any of the seasons. Sometimes you want to watch something from the later ones, other times the earlier ones. But I do see how the show changed from its original idea, and the original idea was more interesting. Chris Noth himself said that he thought Big should've been written about at the end of season 2 and that he thought the show was a really interesting idea initially but not so much when it became all about fashion and being fabulous.

The other thing is, I used to enjoy the show a lot more but on recent watched found it really doesn't seem to hold up today. But I think this is fine! It was a phenomenon at the time, and that gives us an insight into social history. We don't need to fix it, I don't think, or redo it. It can just exist in its time, warts and all.

The show is not coming back.

HBO paid Cynthia Nixon and Kristen Davis $1 million an episode each, for what?

For Miranda to become an out-of-character idiot and vehicle for introducing one of the worst-written, most roundly despised characters in recent TV history. And for Cynthia to drag the original series' non-wokeness in interviews, thereby diminishing its value.

For Kristen Davis to display her terrible facial procedures.

For ... more SJP narcissism. For no Samantha.

The reason HBO hasn't renewed yet is they're saying, we paid out the ass for you and you embarrassed us on every level. Take a 75% pay cut for season 2 or it's done.

It's done.

R329, that cafe was Ladurée, and those cakes cost about €10 each. Are there really working artists who make enough to afford extended stays at the Plaza Athenée where prices start at $1259 a night, a Versace gown valued at $80,000, etc? Petrovsky was no Damien Hirst.

[quote] HBO paid Cynthia Nixon and Kristen Davis $1 million an episode each

Source, please

They should come back for one final episode.

First minute, Carrie shoots Miranda and Charlotte in the face and then blows her own brains out.

Then, a 59 minute loop of Samantha clapping. They can use the scene where old man Ed gives her the diamond necklace.

Oh shut up. The original still holds up fine. Highly entertaining even after the hack MPK changed the tone after S3.

This will get renewed. The ratings were likely blockbuster.

Maybe not, if Candace Bushnell was right that SJP had to be talked into doing it.

In advance of HBO's announcement that it will launch a 4 episode concluding season to And Just Like That (Carrie Died in a Chunnel Fire) staring Cynthia Nixon and Kristen Davis, newly appointed Lead Executive Producer Cynthia Nixon shares a sneak peak of her consensus process inspiration board on Pinterest.

[quote]The reason HBO hasn't renewed yet is they're saying, we paid out the ass for you and you embarrassed us on every level. Take a 75% pay cut for season 2 or it's done.

Don't disagree but let's reverse that... the defensive egos on display last week, trying to divert from discussion of their ten episode failure by reviving the spectre of Cattrall, probably couldn't stand to go out like that, so would they cave and say tell us what (and who) you don't want? If the theory is right SJP is all Norma Desmond about Carrie, I could see her saying no Nixon, no problem. Lose the Keebler elf? Sure, he's a hack if we're being honest. His Jar Jar Binks sisters, gone.

"I love how people think Carrie is just planning to have cocktails.

Doesn't anyone have a sense of humor?"

Have you read all nine threads? People are taking about AJLT almost personally, as if the poor quality of the show is a transformational life event.

I'm going to go ahead and predict a second, final, six-episode season where everyone involved has to take big pay cuts. They'll jettison Che, sideline the other new characters who didn't resonate with audiences (and that was most of them), and try to bring the focus back to the three main women. These characters are so played out that won't work either, but the three actresses will get some more attention and a nice payday, and that's all they care about.

I'm not sure Che is going anywhere, sadly.

They could start with a Dynasty-style Moldavian massacre and go from there. with those left standing.

maybe enacted by the Paris bookshop Carrie fans who she stood up in the last episode of the original series.

They had trouble making the second Borat movie, because everyone recognised Borat. Maybe Sarah Ramirez will have the same problem with her Che Diaz persona.

R342 they are trolling us, at this point

R342 They? There are others?

R337 SJP had to be talked into the ORIGINAL show. As established by the past 20 years, she's now determined to play Carrie Bradshaw until she dies

I'm sending a texty to Biggie....

his address is Hades, beloooooooow....

I think r341 is right. No way are they going to end on a sour note. They’ll come back with retooled plot lines and wrap everything up.

I think that's a genuine possibility, but unless HBO puts MPK, SJP and CN (where's your 3rd name, Cyn?) on a very short leash creatively, they'll fuck it up.

Every single interview and podcast is just "You don't understand our brilliance!"

I can't see MPK and SJP taking orders.

I thought the reboot was to fix the damage made by the movies? Now they need to fix the damage of the reboot? How many strikes until they're out?

They should have been out since that stupid first movie, which was just repeating the series on the big screen.

R352 as many as I say!!

Here's how to fix it: Season 2 opens with Carrie waking up and finding Big in the shower...

Most likely, she would find him sexually assaulting a black woman in there.

I shouldn't have laughed at R356, but I did!

Hi, I'm Che Guavera.

Next season predictions:

“Hey, It’s They Diaz” which is effectively a show within the show will be ordered to series on HBO Max (ooooh aren’t we meta!)

I can see another season with MAJOR retooling. The general reaction to all main character was abysmal. If they were to use SJPs Carrie to narrate, start, and wrap up each episode using each episode to tell different peoples stories through the guise of podcast viewers/participants shenanigans playing out throughout each episode as they seek "advice". The writers wouldn't have to deal with the bounds of 'character development ', continuity, any real reality dealing with the complexities of female friendships through their more mature years, or any complexity of revisiting long-term relationships. Putting the writers back in their wheelhouse of fluff, superficial artifice, while satiating SJPs desire to keep playing the fashionable omniscient Carrie. There would be zero reason to attempt the feat of getting that actress/character to evolve or grow, would be perfect for her and MPK.

Some fat needs trimming to make this work and more importantly, someone will pay for this seasons barrage of bad press. Besides, someone's going to have to replace the dead horse Samantha/KC has been used since the rift in the cast became public.

They refuse to see the issues with this season, which I enjoyed in many parts. The issues were real, deep issues. They can’t just wave their hands and say we don’t get it. MPK is a hack and needs to be fired and removed from having anything to do with this show.

If you were SJP, who would you blame? All the writes will be gone. I'm thinking Sara Ramirez, too. Cynthis Nixon will still be there in a disminished capacity because she lives in LA with Che. Sarita Choudhury and Nicole Parker will join the circle. Carrie will adopt a child.

Something will happen to Big's money.

Nixon will probably refuse to participate if she can't run the show the way she did this time, so that solves that problem. I imagine Ramirez will prefer to move on after this, but she may need the money. I agree a gang of Carrie, Charlotte, LTW and Seema could be a good, entertaining show.

Nothing will happen with Big's money. No one watches this to see poor people and Carrie's gotta afford that fashion.

I can't see Nixon declining but I also can't see SJP doing it without Nixon and Davis.

I think SJP would be happy to jettison CN whose meddling has caused so many issues with the show being badly received.

Our gal, Roxane has written up her thoughts on this season of And Just Like That.

Honestly, I agree with a lot of what she says, particularly in the first part. It's when she starts trying to argue that the episode "Tragically Hip" was easily the best episode of the season that she loses me. It seems to be pretty much universally reviled, that episode, and gave birth to "Hey, it's Che Diaz!" which wasn't complimentary at all. But Roxane, as she says here, is a big fan of everything Samantha Irby does, so she was never going to be honest there.

I get this feeling, and I've seen others says this on other forums too, that it feels a bit like Irby [italic]wanted[/italic] people to be put off by the sex scene in the kitchen so that she can claim others are bigots. But what I've also noticed is that nearly every opinion I've seen has expressed fondness for Sara Ramirez, just revulsion at the character of Che.

I can't believe Roxane wrote that. It's focused and without grievance.

After that kind of restraint, she must have been exhausted.

Roxane is plenty readable when she’s not on Twitter. There’s something about the medium that pulls out the worst in people.

She has the same criticisms of so many other people. It seems like she only watched the first half of the season.

R369, I had no idea she had it in her. I didn't agree with all of what she wrote, but she fought her corner without sounding like... well, sounding like herself.

[quote] Carrie will adopt a child.

The most realistic thing is that Carrie hasn’t had a child. Everything about her screams “cool aunt”. She slips teens a glass of red wine and lets them borrow her her clothes, she doesn’t help with soccer practice or school bullies.

Carrie with a kid. They could change the title to And Just Like Andy.

It's a little surprising they didn't give her and Big a child. If they'd had one or adopted right after the second movie, the kid could be a smart-mouthed tween right now. That might have been fun.

No. Carrie has never seemed like she wanted to be a mom. The show sticking to that is something they did RIGHT.

R375 Correct. Carrie is not mom material so giving her a child would have been a gargantuan miscalculation worse than Che and Miranda by miles.

Carrie was looking at her child bearing years in the rear view mirror by the end of the series, let alone by the second movie. What would be realistic is if she expressed regret about her decision to remain childless like Candace Bushnell did.

R377 Um...

Carrie was 44 at the time of the second movie. Maybe a little old for motherhood (though older mothers happen every day), but with Big's money they could have adopted or gone surrogate. Oh well--it's a moot point now.

They brought it up Carrie and Big having a child in the second movie. She made it clear she wasn’t interested in having them. Surprised that never came up with Aidan.

^If she puked when she saw the ring, imagine what she'd so when she saw the pee stick.

Mean girl SJP and delusional Nixon came off the worse after this reboot. Cynthia should be barred from having input. And SJP showed that Kim was right about her. Hopefully Davis corrects the surgery. She has a Joker mouth.

Thanks for those original thoughts, r382. This is the first we've heard of these in 9 threads.

R383 Guess you're not going to let her sit at the cool kids table.

R382 seems so nice. I don't know why she's drinking alone at this hour.

r383 God I know. 9 threads filled with that.

I hope you're both OK. How great your suffering is.

And forced to read and comment too!

It still hasn't been renewed....

I don't think the hardcore SATC lady fans would like it if Carrie had a kid.

They really just like the idea of living out their fantasies through Carrie going out to brunch with gal pals wearing fabulous outfits and drinking and having fabulous sex once in awhile and going shopping to buy more fabulous outfits. In NYC. Or, Paris. That is the fantasy.

Miranda and Charlotte with kids is "ok" as long as the kids don't intrude on brunch.

Carrie and Samantha do not have the maternal gene. Carrie had an abortion and Samantha had three. Miranda got knocked up and had Steve like a millstone around her neck for decades. Charlotte always wanted children and ended her marriage to Trey because it became difficult to conceive and he did not want to adopt.

But as it turned out, neither Miranda nor Charlotte were very good mothers.

R389 DUH.That’s the whole fucking point. Also, many women don’t want kids.

SJP is the only guest on WWHL Monday night, which is Valentine's Day. Get ready for Andy to rake her over the coals.

^ That is the last thing that will happen with those two. But it will be interesting if he asks her anything about the criticism to give her a chance to message it with bullshit. Because that means it's been or is being discussed behind the scenes.

"If you have a baby, you won't be the baby anymore." From a different movie but I imagine that's Carrie's basic life mantra. Can you imagine her giving up her selfish lifestyle to raise a kid? She'd toss the baby out the window the first time it puked on one of her ridiculous outfits

Listen to SJP and MPK talk about the potential for a future reboot below (this was 2004)

Should add that it's 20.45 onwards.

I thought it was out of the blue and just out of character in the last episode of the series when Samantha says to Carrie: I'll miss you, you cunt.

Now I think it was either an ad lib they couldn't resist keeping or subtext like a Mack truck.

But wasn't that an issue for Carrie with Petrovsky, that he didn't want any more children?

It was briefly. She was bothered that she wouldn't even have the option with Petrovsky more than she actually thought she wanted one. She had taken care of Brady while Miranda was away and was just contemplating things.

From how things turned out, it seems like Miranda didn't have the mommy gene, either. She probably should have gone ahead and terminated and let Steve get on with his nice outer boroughs life with Debbie, who certainly would have wanted kids.

I thought it was a total letdown how Brady didn't get a reaction to it.

Yeah, there should have been a scene where Brady called his mother out for wrecking their family so she could get laid.

Ok so I’m going to breathe and reboot. Watching the original show, and it’s sooooo good. The chemistry is amazing, they seemed like they are best friends. On season 4, episode 11. Btw, what the fuck is up with Birken bags? They are UGLY.

[quote]Btw, what the fuck is up with Birken bags? They are UGLY.

Even Jane Birkin didn't like them. I think she said they gave her pain in her arm trying to carry them.

Also, on things they tried to sell as fabulous in this show, what was up with that pool at the Soho House? Mediocre doesn't even come close to describing it.

Miranda never seemed maternal either in SATC.

IF this gets renewed they'll leave Brady in Europe.

I agree with a lot of posters. AJLT made me watch the original SATC. It's a really good show despite all the nitpicking over the years on DL - me included. Even the last three seasons are better than I remember. I've always thought the first 3 and 1/3 seasons were great. First two seasons are fantastic IMO.

Che Diaz hate knows no borders.

From elpais:

“Che Díaz is gonna get gay rights taken away from us,” joked playwright Matthew K. Begbie on Twitter. (Ouch.) Another tweet went even further: “Che Díaz is our 9/11.” (Oooooooouch!) “You just know not a single functioning queer was consulted when they concocted Che Díaz in the writing room,” wrote comedian Charlie Lewin. (Call HRC... cancellation NOW!)

[quote]Michael Patrick King, the character’s creator, told Variety he believes all the backlash against Che is because she is Miranda’s conduit to divorce her husband, Steve. “What everybody else is projecting on that character has a lot to do with what they want to have happen to Miranda in the story. It has so little to do with Che.”

Wrong!

Actually I think it's partly true, but not wholly true. But I assume that line of thought is to her what that headboard was to Rose's nascent effort to never let go.

MPK and the writers spent 20 years getting us invested in Miranda and Steve, and now they're surprised that the audience resents Miranda throwing that relationship away over a three-month fling?

I think Sara Ramirez worked very hard to sell the material. But her jokes stunk. Her outfits stunk. Her dialogue stunk. And her character made no sense. It didn't help that Miranda was a giggly schoolgirl around her. When Che proclaimed her love, I wondered why.

I would kill for her hair in r409.

I honestly always thought Steve and Miranda were incompatible and wouldn’t last.

Steve would've been better staying with Debbie and Miranda with Robert, and their story being more of a modern family/different style of parenting one.

It's interesting... HBO has released audience numbers for The Gilded Age but nothing for The Guilty Che.

No r373 they could change the name to Absolutely Fabulous

They could have broken up Miranda and Steve in a way that felt real and organic. This just made Miranda appear to be a total flaming nutjob. She had her asshole moments in the original series, but she was usually the sensible one.

Miranda becoming cynthia was lazy and ick. She’s gross.

421 Absolutely. It smacks of lazy writers pandering to an egotistical actress who refused to participate in this foolishness unless they caved to her demands.

Don't they have focus groups to evaluate content before they put it out? Hard to believe anyone thought these terrible storylines were great.

R411 MPK is in serious denial.

MPK has enough champagne......to feel denial!

I don't think the writers pandered, I think they lapped it up. Their egos are so big and yet so fragile they would do anything to avoid the criticism they got for being too everything the show was back in the day. They are so scarred they'd rather be loved by a small number of progressives than produce a popular show, hence the people don't get it theme.

Entry over entry they keep cranking out something that suits [italic]them.[/italic] Gay men playing Barbies. (Although as it goes on there seems to be just one, elderly gay man and a bunch of elderly women with Stockholm Syndrome.)

when they were deciding how to write off Samantha do you think they considered the idea that she married? I know we were supposed to believe that she would never make a commitment like that but maybe she met a younger and rich man that changed her mind. She wouldn't even need to leave NYC but decide that she wanted to focus on him instead of her friends. It does happen.

No! She’s a whore!

There were a lot of ways they could have written off Samantha. They chose the most insulting one. That tells you a lot about the people involved in that decision.

It is hard to imagine that these people—- seemingly devoid of any talent, integrity, or creativity— actually have a show on the sir.

What a world.

They basically went meta by adapting real life (UK based, where KC either was or is), money woes, gee not my fault. It was a calculated insult but subtlety was never a strong suit with that gang.

[quote] Also, on things they tried to sell as fabulous in this show, what was up with that pool at the Soho House? Mediocre doesn't even come close to describing it.

Nothing says class like Geri Halliwell.

R427 Well, they couldn't write her off as just being married and involved in her new life AND still living in NYC. If one of your best friend's husband dies and you don't have a really good excuse for not attending, you're gonna look pretty shitty.

Really, as I've said already, they could have easily married her off to a handsome Australian and swept her off to the Land Down Under. No one expects you to fly that far for a funeral. Or, they could have also given Samantha or her new husband an illness/disability which makes it tough for her to travel far.

Problem solved.

So the all regular rabbis refused to do the "they mitzvah" not because of the non-binary thing but because Rose/Rock is a useless ,lazy , unmotivated spoiled piece of shit?

And after that ridiculous behavior in the party she deserve a slap and summer internship in Gaza Strip.

If she had been a boy, would she have gotten away with that?

Out of interest, I decided to watch the pilot for the original series tonight. I haven't seen it for serious years. I always find it interesting to see how a show was first envisaged and how it ended up.

Something I'd never noticed before was that Carrie had a completely different apartment, and one that actually looks more suitable for someone in her financial position. It looks like it's above a coffee shop and it's small and cramped, and covered in her things, which she's just thrown around all over the place. Later she gives her address as 72nd and 3rd, I don't know much about New York, but is that where she lived later on?

She's also much more of an observational character, rather than making everything about her. SJP plays her more as someone who is watching others, taking it in (clearly to use in her column), and kinda mischevous too. This is funny considering how she later became a very "everything is about ME" character.

I'd forgotten about Skipper, ugh, I never liked his character. Not sure why Carrie is friends with him, she just seems to patronise him when he's talking anyway.

Big and Carrie make more sense here. I can see him flirting with her as she is here and having an affair with her, but marrying and the love of his life? No.

The brown hair is interesting. I can't think of another time she had her hair like that.

I liked the more down to earth dressing. I liked the dress Carrie was wearing when she bumped into Big, and she looks good and more natural rolling around on her bed in jeans and a top.

I think I'll revisit the whole first series, just to see how it looks compared to what happened in AJLT... haven't seen it for such a long time, not even sure I remember it.

Agreed, it was a much different show then. But it was Darren Star then, not MPK, although I think he's been on the production team since the beginning.

I recall there was a line I read once about how DS had mysteriously departed SATC. It leapt out at me as was implying something but you could go a hundred different ways from how it was written.

" Out of interest, I decided to watch the pilot for the original series tonight. I haven't seen it for serious years. I always find it interesting to see how a show was first envisaged and how it ended up.

Something I'd never noticed before was that Carrie had a completely different apartment, and one that actually looks more suitable for someone in her financial position."

I recently rewatched too and noticed this. I think it only lasted for that first episode. Even the exterior is different.

Over the weekend I also began watching the series again. It's interesting that so far, in the first two episodes, Carrie delivers comments directly to the camera. As the series evolved her observations to the audience were delivered in voice over.

I got the feeling there were a lot of structural changes between episode one (which I guess was an aired pilot?) and what followed. I had the impression Miranda wasn't part of a gang of four.

It's pretty common for a pilot to have a different set from the rest of the show. Either they couldn't get the location for the series or they found something better/cheaper, etc.

The series as originally conceived in the pilot seemed to focus on Carrie's wide circle of friends much more.

[quote]I recently rewatched too and noticed this. I think it only lasted for that first episode. Even the exterior is different.

I'm up to episode 6 currently. The interior changes by the second episode, but they still keep the exterior, coffee shop place going so far.

Also Charlotte is almost sidelined in a couple of these earlier episodes.

Long-running series often have to experiment a little before they find their niche: sometimes there are concepts abandoned early on that were fascinating, either because they were potentially good ideas back then, or they just clash so much with the later tone of the series. In short, the first installment is a "prototype", like a pilot of a first episode.

This is particularly common in television, where the pilot episode is usually filmed long in advance of a show's actual debut. This gives the studio and creative team a chance to evaluate what worked and what didn't and make significant changes, including replacing cast members. In particularly dramatic cases, a series can undergo something of a Retool between its pilot and its second episode.

Well...ONE of Cynthia's shows has been renewed

And Just Like That can... sit and wait?

Carrie's old apartment in AJLT is substantially roomier and wider than it was in SATC. It reminds me of how the Southfork hallways on DALLAS swelled to the size of hotel corridors as the years wore on.

Can someone pull a Sony hack on HBO? I'm sure the emails (between HBO internally and between HBO and the three named crones) are delicious.

Wow, is there going to be a season 2 or not?

I'm hoping there are hardcore discussions going on about what a second round would look like, after this triumph. They don't release numbers or renewal news but Gilded Age gets a greenlight after three episodes. SATC used to be one of the jewels in the crown.

R450 HBO is almost certainly trying to get SJP and MPK back to earth.

Creative freedom is...off the table.

Well, it's an easy fix: Seabiscuit, Daffy, Seema and LTW.

Isn't SJP on WWHL tonight? Maybe we'll find out more.

She and MPK must be furious at Cynthia.

^ Why, R453? I get the feeling MPK is all aboard.

she had brown hair in the first movie for a time when she was trying to hide her identity after the wedding attempt. i happened to listen to a bit of the MPK DVD commentary and he was talking about Carrie was just as culpable as Big for what happened on the wedding day where Big got cold feet.

r454 You really think they wanted to do this woke stuff as much as Cynthia? Please. If this doesn't get renewed, Cynthia is getting thrown under the bus like Kim before her.

Cynthia may have wanted Miranda to go nuts for a butch like she did in real life, but the shitty writing was on MPK. It could've been handled MUCH better.

I'm watching the second movie now and forget how it ends but maybe Samantha could have stayed in Abu Dhabi as her write-off.

Quote [I recall there was a line I read once about how DS had mysteriously departed SATC.]

There was no mystery. SATC started in 1998. In 2000 Darren Star left to create The $treet for Fox and Grosse Pointe for the WB.

Grosse Pointe > And Just Like That

It has one of the greatest twist endings in movie history, R458!

Well, R459, unless you're him or me, that's what I read.

R433 I like that suggestion for Samantha’s storyline. That would have been a nice send off for a loved character. They just couldn’t rise above their pettiness. How much money do these fucks need?

R455, oh yeah I remembered that but I guess I was so aware that was a wig, whereas in the pilot it was her own hair, I just thought that was interesting.

Speaking of the pilot, I forgot to say above, but the first thing that stuck out to me was that it was directed by Susan Seidelman! I had no idea, is this common knowledge that I just somehow missed? Or perhaps as I only recently became properly aware of Desperately Seeking Susan and Smithereens it didn't sink in before? She was a good choice to direct a show about New York City.

The pilot was great, very well-written.

SJP on WWHL tonight got me to watch the documentary. It was entertaining, and confirms all our beliefs about the bubble that these people live in. SJP is a producer of the show, but hasn't seen eps 2-10? Really? Decisions made by nice wardrobe lady that make sense to the story (Eiffel Towel purse) and MPK is afraid to upset SJP by overruling a wardrobe decision. The worst, though, was SJP referring to herself and MPK as Carrie's parents, and Darwood Star as the birth mother. She egregiously left out Candace Bushnell. Rude.

Andy must be a terrible friend. Or he’s too afraid to tell SJP that she’s delusional.

R466 - was this on WWHL or in the documentary? That's nuts.

Did Cohen even tiptoe near the it sucked portion of the program (which was most of it?)

Based on what you wrote, if HBO doesn't renew this she's gonna go all Glenn Close and Sunset Blvd. over this part.

The Maul summary:

Sarah said she could take no credit for it but that it was the work of the series showrunner and head writer Michael Patrick King and his extraordinary group of amazingly talented writers. Samantha is not gone,' said the 56-year-old actress wearing a long brown fitted Norma Kamali dress that she said she 'bought right off the rack.' 'The actress that played the role is no longer playing that role, but people are absent from your life when you don't want them to be. 'You know, and I thought that in typical Michael Patrick fashion, he threaded it through with grace and dignity and respect and love and affection for that character.  'I thought it mimicked many friendships that challenge each other and struggle and want to remain connected in a way, because it's too painful,' she said  Andy later discussed with Sarah when the flowers from Samantha came during the funeral scene of AJLT. 'We were crying when we were doing it,' Sarah said. The host said viewers also wanted to know why she didn't immediately call 911 when her husband Big had a heart attack.  ‘Of course she called 911,' insisted Sarah. 'Didn't you see the people behind moving the body.' Andy said that people wanted to see her reach for the phone. 'That's an understandable and logical expectation,' she admitted.  'It's suspended animation, this moment where everything stops and then whatever collapsing of time that happens does not stop her from taking care of somebody, in a fashion that you would want and expect from your partner, or husband or wife.' Sarah said Carrie 'found the phone at some point, let's quickly walk through this together.  'So in my head, she struggled through this moment and tried to get him to be responsive and then she came to her senses. I'm going to say after about two to three seconds, and then of course she called 911 and got all the help she needed from professionals.' Andy then asked her whether she thought Che Diaz's comedy set was actually funny. 'I'm going to make a confession to everybody,' Sarah said. 'I have not seen episodes 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 yet. It's my problem.' 'I feel that I'm not in a position to declare whether Che's comedy is funny or not,' she added. Andy also asked if there were any side characters that she hoped would come back. 'We had a nice little taste of Bitsy [Von Muffling] which was a delight,' Sarah said. She said there were so many people over the course of their initial series but that they also had all these new amazing people who deserved time. --

'The actress that played the role is no longer playing that role'

Can't even say her name.

[quote]Darwood Star as the birth mother

Endora lives!

The documentary is interesting because it seems they were trying so hard to get the story right.

Sadly, most of it was laughably bad.

If that's so R471, I should give it a look, because I was thinking they were all off in cloud cuckoo land from the beginning, so I avoided it.

It explains in part the defensiveness of later interviews when there was such a wide agreement it was a bad job.

R472, I watched mainly to see the characters again. The quality of the writing goes up and down—some of it actually good but a lot of it terrible.

It does seem a bit off balance without Samatha though

R473, I see what you mean and yet I feel the explanation around Samantha was one of the few things they wrote right. It worked and there were characters to make up the absence. She couldn't have been the Samantha we remembered. At some point even the most self assured, self aware cougar becomes that 60 year old guy in an Abercrombie t-shirt and board shorts (thong underneath) at Fire Island.

How, exactly, was the ridiculous reason they shipped off Samantha written right? It was already stated that she didn't need Carrie's money and they had been friends for decades at that point. It was a sour grapes kiss off and not written with any thought to the characters or their history.

Nonetheless, focus group of one, it worked for me. It was a simple solution that happens in real life. Who hasn't lost a friend over something silly? (Or rather, who hasn't lost a friend over something brewing and then the friendship collapses over something silly.?) It preserved the character alive. It avoided recast. It provided for reconciling those characters through the text device. It avoided a scenario where she was off doing something that did not preclude her return at moments of crisis (Big) or logically (all cruises end, usually with a COVID infection and all moves to the other side of the world don't prevent you from getting on a plane at some point.) The solution had to have a break between the characters or the logical question would have been "why hasn't she come back." Agreed it was petty to basically copy it from real life and they are being spiteful and small toward Cattrall. But in this shittily written season I thought it was a smooth way to keep Samantha alive. Nobody wanted the idea of her dead from breast cancer.

Exact enough for ya, R475?

Everyone's getting a second season!

...Except Sarah

Jesus, who the fuck is watching THAT shitshow?

R478, I tried to watch (for Kim) and it is truly unwatchable. I was not a fan of How I Met Your Mother and never saw an entire episode so it it possible I am missing something?

I haven't watched it, and the reviews were terrible, but hey, I'm glad Kim has a paycheck.

I'm sure the Three-Named-Crones at AJLT are sooo happy for her

I did the same, watched for Kim. I saw the first two episodes then skipped and watched a couple of later ones. For the demographic they are aiming at, it's a decent show, they are taking care at developing relationships in a "real" way. I enjoyed seeing Kim, I think for a woman in her mid 60's she's looks good, even like the bit of weight gain on her. I know great shows should capture any audience but these days the targeting is specific and anyone outside the demo is not going to like it.

R481 Thank you! No one respects great writing anymore!

Sarah's side speaking is worse than a politician

Part9?! No obsession here. No really!

The writer needed neither to kill off or demolish Samantha in order to explain her absence. She could have simply been in London, and sent flowers to Big's funeral. Carrie could've mentioned that Samantha called her after Big's death and couldn't make fly to NYC because of the flu, a broken leg, whatever.

Samantha's absence did not have in any way have to correlate with Kim Cattrall's real-life rupture with SJP. That was a creative choice and you can bet SJP and MK were the masterminds behind it. It was intended to send a message and it did.

And while we're on the subject, Stanford's absence was also handled horrifically. He simply left notes behind for his husband and best friend while he went to Asia with a Tip Took star. How about a scene where Carrie explains to Anthony that she and Stanford spoke for a long time about his decision to leave, that she tried to convince him to stay and he didn't see any other way out?

That would have made sense instead of the jarring and abrupt explanation we were given. In this instance, the actor's absence was simply unforgivable laziness on the writers' part.

Maybe Cynthia is negotiating a spin-off with Miranda and Che in LA!

I was describing the documentary, r468. SJP's biggest concern was always the look, mostly her personal wardrobe, but also the look of her apartments. Days were spent trying on clothes and hats, which required days of multiple people shopping and pulling looks for her. She fixated on tiny details like a particular hat, or how her walk-in closet looked, because she says she needs like to get into the character. They had to redo her closet because she felt like it looked too much like a high end boutique. Just imagine if she put half as much effort into the characters or the writing.

*because she says she needs that to get into the character.

What documentary?

They really did write off Samantha terribly. I am loving catching up watching the original on E! That it’s a tragedy to have it turn to them fighting over money. I imagine S2 will pick up with them having mended fences and them texting back and forth a lot.

And just like that I lost interest in this dumb show.

Hey, it's Che Fil-A...!

HBOMAX has an hour long, behind the scenes documentary on AJLT, which is interesting and heavy on the fashion. R489

R492 Thank you!

It's quite interesting that HBO hasn't said anything about a renewal. Not their usual procedure.

The options are:

1) This was just a one off series. But, why not announce it as such?

2) HBO is willing/wanting to do a second series but want some changes to the show/production team/direction of the show. And, MPK and SJP are resisting.

3) HBO is willing but want some changes AND they're not willing to shell out the huge bucks they allegedly did for the first series. And, MPK and SJP are resisting. And, maybe Nixon.

[quote]And Just Like That…, which also saw the most “first views” of any new HBO Max title — meaning the first thing new subscribers watched after signing up — has boosted viewership for the original series, too. HBO Max said viewership for Sex and The City went up 59% from the previous week, ranking 11th overall on the platform.

[quote]And Just Like That: SATC Reboot Is HBO Max's Most Streamed Show Ever [screenrant.com, etc.]

I've seen three reports on viewership numbers:

—Number of "first views" on which it ranks highly (though usually worded vaguely in regard to whether the measure was against current fare or against all HBO Max series offerings.

—HBO Max's "most streamed show ever", with HBO Max being a rather new vehicle so a new measure

—Week by week growth of viewers against other HBO Max fare (see the 2nd sentence of the first quote), "up 59% from the previous week [good], ranking 11th overall on the platform [disappointing I should think.]"

From those figures and a general tone of disappointment with AJLT, I would guess that they will sit on this a while, wait a couple of years and then —after exerting some control on writing/storyline quality this time and possibly some paring down of salaries— bring it back in a similarly limited run to stir a little flurry of press and revive the interest in rewatching the old catalogue of the collective series.

Most people would agree it was a big disappointment. But Big's death will go down in television history.

But careful with waiting too long...

This face is only going to grow scarier with the passage of time. They could call it Four Funerals and A Wedding: as the NYC-LA troika prepare for Lily's wedding, they must fly to London for Samantha's funeral, then one by one the remaining three drop dead, three more funerals, and a closing shot of Lily's bittersweet nuptials and her three best girlfriends.

Why does she look so horrible? It's mostly the eyes - she needs to ditch the dark heavy eye and brow makeup and get a good undereye concealer.

The nude lipstick does almost no one any favours, and SJP is no exception.

The nose and ears grow through life and she should consider getting them both shortened, or at least cover up those old lady ears.

Her hair is too thin to wear it pulled back like that, plus that hairdo is reminiscent of another old crone, Granny Clampett. The long witch-like 'beachy waves' are not much better.

Why has no one re-styled her?

I suspect details have not been ironed out yet to announce a S2. I can see this going for 4 seasons. They probably need to map out S2, wrap up contracts, then announce. Like it or not, people want more. They don’t want to end on his note (again).

SJP is still filming HP, right? Is the once sexy as fuck Omri Katz in it? I used to jerk it to him.

[Quote] Is the once sexy as fuck Omri Katz in it? I used to jerk it to him.

I think Omri has been replaced with DL fave Froy.

[quote]plus that hairdo is reminiscent of another old crone, Granny Clampett

I spit out my tea! LMAO, thank you, r498!

HBO is in the business to make money so if they can retool it to work better and gain some critical acclaim (vs. criticism) I would think they move swiftly. It's closing in on twenty years since the series ended. If it can pump out money soon, it goes ahead and yeah, I think there could be a lot seasons to get out of - in better hands.

I agree with those who say the silence, relative to other announcements coming out rapid, like Gilded Age, and that the delay is the haggling over who makes the cut in guiding the thing forward. Who has contractual rights (like a first refusal, a la Close and Sunset) and things like that which have to be bought out to get rid of them. A lot of people seem to have a stranglehold on this property.

Is there a chance the theory that SJP is the big problem is wrong? My take on her is she very attached to the franchise, which makes sense given her history with it, but that she wants it to live more than she wants to impose her vision. She strikes me not as manipulative but very emotional, lost in a world of choosing costume and fussing about details. She says loopy things like I haven't seen most of the series. What kind of executive producer says that? That's either disingenuous or really out there. I kind of wonder if other people take advantage of her emotional attachment, which if not for iron clad contracts maybe also explain why some dinosaurs run this show every time. My theory is too many people have stayed too long on the production team and part of that problem is in their limited talents they play to SJP's emotional needs and concoct even more bullshit. I don't know, whenever she speaks she seems like one of those people my grandma would describe as "away with the fairies."

R495, the 11th most watched show you attribute to AJTL is actually a reference to Sex and the City, which is actually stellar for a show that ended in 2004.

R502 You hit the nail on the head. That is exactly what is going on. You were particularly insightful about SJP being emotional, not manipulative. She cares about the franchise, the cast and the crew. The problem is she’s tied herself to MPK.

I'm a bit surprised someone in the serious entertainment press hasn't pursued the fate of this show as a story. These days all you need is said someone not authorized to speak on the matter and you've got a piece.

I agree SJP seems VERY emotionally invested in the franchise. But that investment has also created a huge fucking blind spot for her. For example, the second movie showed the women being driven around in Maybachs and living at a 5 star resort…in the middle of the worst financial crisis in nearly a century. Sure, people like escapism, but the movie felt really tone deaf given what was happening the real world. A much better plot line would have involved Big losing all his money and Carrie being forced to downsize her lifestyle But that wouldn't have aligned with the fairy tale vision of SATC that MPK created and SJP seems to have bought into as the tone for the franchise. I sort of wish Darren Star would come back to help right the ship. Or at the very least create a "Samantha in London" series to go along with "Emily in Paris."

R506, surely you jest?!!!

I could have sworn this thing got renewed for a 2nd season right after they dropped the first two episodes. Did they rescind the renewal?

I think people were saying that all over the first thread, R508.

The fix is easy... get rid of Che... let them and Mirynthia live theirs best lives offscreen reviving a pansexual music festival in Michigan, and work with what's left.

it will be back...

[quote]HBO and HBO Max Chief Content Officer Casey Bloys told Deadline that he thinks there will be a second season of the spinoff but noted that it’s in large part down to Michael Patrick King and Sarah Jessica Parker. “It’s really Michael Patrick King and Sarah Jessica [Parker] talking to figure out if there’s a story they’re excited by,” he said. “I think there will be, but they’re talking and making sure they want to jump in. It’s a big commitment, and they’ll come to us and let us know what they’re thinking but I’m feeling good about it.”

He's letting them save face. Everyone knows the show has been received as a disaster. The Gossip Girl reboot got a fast renewal. The Gilded Age got a fast renewal. I would assume there are some...tense discussions going on behind the scenes about what season 2 would look like and how much HBO is willing to pay.

Hardly a ringing endorsement "I think there will be".

I wonder if - actually I'm desperately hoping - “It’s really Michael Patrick King and Sarah Jessica [Parker] talking to figure out if there’s a story they’re excited by,” he said. - actually means we laid down the law and after the tears before bedtime we're hoping they'll come back with a new attitude and no Che.

Not a ringing endorsement, but I truly believe HBO wants the series back, and MPK and SJP are smarting over the bad press.

Looking at the pix of SJP. Bitch needs makeover like yesterday. No buns, brains or any hair drawn back tightly. No shots of her boobs or neck ever. No dark makeup making her eyes look beady. Soften those lines up with Restylane. No clown dressing.

How i treasure her slapping the last remains of Big out of her bag like a bag of Cheetos had died in there.

I just finished rewatching the first season of Sex and the City last night, which was enjoyable all up, and you REALLY notice how much as changed between then and now. One thing is that somewhere along the line Carrie became very cutesy and "aww shucks"-y, where the way her character was first written, she was more jaded and cool. In the first season she is faced with a number of situations that you know in later seasons would have her squealing and covering her eyes. Here she just seems either amused or baffled but not shocked (ie, seeing her friend's dick in the hall when on holiday). Early seasons are much more like: "it's great to get out of New York City sometimes" rather than "New York City is the only place to be".

The worst episode to me was the Three's Company one, and when it started I noticed it was written by Jenny Bicks and in my head some memory stirred that she tended to write the episodes I hated. Will have to look again, but she has a certain humour in hers that is really dumb. Plus she has Miranda meet up with the cutest, sweetest couple, telling them she wants a threesome and then she just walks off on them. Those kind of situations always seem so weirdly written. Who would do that?

They're still finding their feet, obviously. The writers don't quite have a consistent plan of attack with Samantha's character, who is written a number of times as being insecure.

It's actually much more refreshing for it to not be all about fashion. R487. that story is so depressing.

HBO just announced a bunch of renewals of headline shows...except this.

The most likely story is that HBO is not thrilled with the performance, but they don't want to make enemies of MPK and SJP

This was their way of doing the third movie.

Enough. That was awful.

I'm not sure why they're so worried about keeping MPK and SJP happy. It's clear the SATC spark has burned out, and they don't have any other important properties.

R519 MPK has The Comeback

It must burn them both that Emily in Paris is a massive success (renewed through Season 4) and And Just Like That was a lead balloon. I'd never call Emily in Paris a great show, and whenever it ends, I'll be fine. But one show is a charming timewaster, and the other is expired milk.

I think you described Emily in Paris perfectly, R520. It's quite competent at what it is - "a charming timewaster"; seems to know its limits and know what it does well. Not Golden Age of Television greatness, but not trying to be.

I don't think The Comeback is ever…coming back. Not since the actor who played Mickey died.

LOL @ expired milk.

Were they really expecting Emmys for this? Then again, it's not like the Emmys only recognize quality, so they may still get some nominations.

The longer they wait to announce its renewal (if it's even being renewed), the worse it looks.

R522 RIP Mickey but the show is Valerie. I'd watch a 3rd season.

R521 thanks! I thought of it while I was watching season 2 and it just...fits. We need our charming timewasters, especially for those of us still working from home.

They're not hearing us. They are living in a titanium bubble.

[quote]“The world is very different now—not just because of COVID, not just because of Trump, not just because of Black Lives Matter, not just because of global warming. We’re absolutely a comedy, but to do a lighthearted show that didn’t acknowledge any of those things would have seemed incredibly tone-deaf. So I’m very proud of it in that sense.”

You know what's great comedy? Holocaust denial jokes!

You'd think Nixon, as a human and an artist, could grasp part of the problem with the storyline was the selfishness of Miranda's behaviour. She pursued her path with no compassion for those she left behind, with not even ambivalence about the impact of her decisions. Part of it was lousy writing, which she obviously can't acknowledge. But they told this story in a way that made it nearly impossible to root for Miranda, which you'd think she could grasp and find words to a least speak to it. But no, just another episode of You Don't Get It.

Her comments are funny when you consider the pathetic role she plays on "Gilded Age" and that the show is about social competition among rich people, rather than the failures of reconstruction, the horrible exploitation of workers, esp. immigrants and all else that was taking place at that time.

AJLT was destined to be awful because the starting place was the aborted 3rd film which sounded like a turkey. Adding some underwritten one-dimensional characters, some of them poorly acted didn't make it better.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

“I’m really startled by a lot of the decisions made in the reboot,” Bushnell said. “You know, it’s a television product, done with Michael Patrick King and Sarah Jessica Parker, who have both worked with HBO a lot in the past. HBO decided to put this franchise back into their hands for a variety of reasons, and this is what they came up with.”

Bushnell said she could not relate to how “And Just Like That” depicted Carrie, (Parker), Miranda (Cynthia Nixton) and Charlotte (Kristen Davis) as being so out of touch with modern terms when it came to changing culture and gender norms. The author has long spoken about how she stopped relating to Carrie, whose based on her, during the original series.

“I’ve said this, but when the character of Carrie sleeps with Mr. Big after he’s married to somebody else—that’s when I felt like the character’s becoming something other [than myself],” Bushnell said.

Bushnell continued not to see herself in Carrie in “And Just Like That,” adding, “Not at all. I mean, Carrie Bradshaw ended up being a quirky woman who married a really rich guy. And that’s not my story, or any of my friends’ stories. But TV has its own logic.”

Anyone else, when they see this thread, sing to themselves, "And just like that, he'll kill your brother".

"HBO decided to put this franchise back into their hands for a variety of reasons, and this is what they came up with.”

OUCH!

Just watched that documentary... so boring but the meltdown over the hat.... she seems a child.

HBO doesn't need to tiptoe around MPK and SJP.

They're a huge global entertainment corporation.

MPK is a hack show runner and SJP is a relatively minor actress. Both of them have ONE huge hit to their names and it's SATC.

MPK is 100% the problem.

No, he isn't, R535. Look how DUFF (designated ugly funny friend) SJP morphed herself into the dreamgirl on SatC, over Kristin Davis, who was voted the most beautiful woman in the world at that time.

Team Kim, Candace and Patricia!!!!

A person who is childish and tangential is usually easily manipulated, if you can stomach it.

[quote] Kristin Davis, who was voted the most beautiful woman in the world at that time.

When was this, Kristin?

There was a flash of young Charlotte from season one, I think, in the documentary and I remember thinking: she was beautiful. And she could still be attractive but you don't carry an extra fifteen pounds and inject another pound or two of fillers.

That could have been a story - weight in older women. Seriously. Charlotte was a beauty... she could struggle with the effects of time and metabolism. Maybe be tempted into an affair. I dunno, freeballing...

Cynthia Nixon can't see that Miranda behaved like a totally selfish bitch to her husband of 20 years and her only son? It really makes you wonder what Nixon's personal life is like.

If she wanted to focus on Miranda getting her groove back, all they had to do is start the season with her amicably divorced from Steve, who is happily remarried with more kids. That could have added to Miranda's sense that the world has moved on, and everyone else has found a fulfilling life except for her. Seriously, that could have been handled in literally one or two scenes with Eigenberg. It would certainly have given Steve a more dignified fate.

I guess for Nixon Mirynthia isn't a fully fleshed out character, just a means to get the message through.

It is kind of a mystery... Nixon's own life path has to be littered with emotional pain and suffering and reconciliation as she changed. No judgement, we all leave pain and suffering in our wakes (though hopefully not intentionally.) It was such a weird choice to make Miranda's path free from consequence. You'd figure those two lead women writers have kids and spouses. Big ball drop for a show that was trying to reinvent itself as more serious.

Here ya go, R539

Well, actors are all narcissists, so of course they never consider the effect of that on people involved with them. CN has zero awareness of Miranda's hubris, nor would she, being a self-involved entity.

It's almost like it wasn't enough for Nixon that Miranda finds a new same-sex partner. She had to 'win' by also leaving her boring, half-deaf husband and obnoxious kid. Maybe she thought Miranda would seem pathetic if she was a lonely divorcee, but it actually would have made her much more sympathetic and relatable. If they wanted the 'drama' of having Miranda leave that marriage onscreen, they definitely should have shown some consequences. Even if it was just her getting chewed out by Brady.

Yes, R546, and one scene in flashback of her fighting with Steve before the divorce would really drive it home. I agree.

I opined before that since they didn't know how many seasons this would last, they had to write as if it was only going to be one season. Since they added so many elements to supposedly correct what was wrong with SATC in addition to providing story lines for the aging main cast, they just didn't have room a lot of other stuff, and had to glaze over the stuff they did have. So, I don't really think Miranda doesn't think she has to suffer any consequences for her midlife decisions. As lame as "new Miranda" could be I still don't take her as someone who thinks she could end her relationship with no ill effects. It's just that they simply didn't write anything about it.

That's probably entirely too generous, but I'm thinking if they knew they'd have two or three seasons, they could explore the entire end of the relationship and Miranda's lesbian journey more. But they seemed to want to get things to a certain endpoint if there was only one season.

The thing is, the Chenobyl relationship isn't real. I don't know what's missing in Mirynthia's life, but the thing with Che is total mid-life crisis zone. The odds of it lasting are low, the odds of Miranda's tuna high lasting even lower. So if you thought they'd explore the fall out, that might be an interesting story. There is almost no way Miranda doesn't wind up regretting a ton of it. Who thinks they'll do that?

I can see that, r548. There was SO much going on in this series it was exhausting. It felt like they crammed 3 seasons worth of stories into 10 episodes.

This article is one of the most cringe inducing things I have ever read. She has no self awareness.

R550 i hate it when shows burn through storylines and alot of them do it 😒

"At this, Nixon breaks into a hearty laugh. “First of all, who wants to watch that? I don’t want to watch that. It’s to show women and our struggles and our dreams and our foibles. You don’t always know where you’re going. Those are the people that I’m interested in, not the people who are playing it safe.”

Except no one think what Mirynthia's done is gonna work or bring lasting happiness. But there's no indication that's going to be played out. So what they think is interesting is actually bullshit.

[quote]s lame as "new Miranda" could be I still don't take her as someone who thinks she could end her relationship with no ill effects. It's just that they simply didn't write anything about it.

Yes, but in a fictional world, the audience only has what we see or what we are told. When we don't see or hear about Miranda facing consequences, those consequences literally don't exist. Even if they wanted to get to a certain endpoint, they could have shown blowback via one scene with Brady. That couldn't have taken more than a minute or two of screen time.

These interviews show that Nixon is a stone-narcissist who thinks someone's personal journey is more important than the feelings of those around them.

^ And potentially as a really bad writer.

From the interview:

[quote] First of all, I think Miranda is brave, and I think Miranda is charging forward. She doesn’t know where she’s going exactly, but she knows she has to go somewhere. And I think that’s always been true of Miranda, right? Miranda’s very smart and she’s very tenacious, but the idea that she’s level-headed – she’s never been level-headed! . . . . I feel like what Miranda does [on And Just Like That] is incredibly brave. She gives up her very lucrative corporate job and goes back to try and make something more of her life.

Does she realize the audience had no problem with Miranda quitting her job? It was Miranda coldly abandoning her husband and son for a fling that was the problem. Funny how Nixon side-steps that whole issue in the interview.

And she also ignores the fact that Miranda took her new career so seriously that she gave up an internship (when no 55 year old would ever get an internship) to go chase some fat Mexican enby across the country.

Perfectly summed up R554

But she was living a rom com!

Nixon left her husband of 15 years for a woman. This is her justifying her choices to herself and the world via Miranda. Weird that she feels the need to do it since that first marriage has been over for nearly 20 years.

Couldn't Miranda have fallen in love with a nice woman? Show her agonizing over busting up her marriage but feeling she can't stay in a dead relationship when she's found something wonderful. Show her apologizing to Steve and trying to deal with Brady's anger and sadness. Have her new lover feel conflicted too about being the other woman. Show the two of them together at the end of the series but not without lingering feelings of regret for what was broken.

Showing Miranda's affair as a serious matter that had real consequences for those around her--and having Miranda acknowledge those consequences--would have been excellent drama and helped reconcile the audience to the end of Miranda and Steve. That's how these mid-life divorces work in real life.

It's like none of those involved in the show have ever been in a real relationship.

R561 too busy "CRAVING CHE!"

If Nixon lies and bullshits so much over a lousy TV show imagine what kind of governor she would have made.

Nixon, like MPK, is completely tone-deaf and should never have been in a position to dictate what happened to Miranda.

In examining the horribly botched story of Miranda's affair, it's easy to forget that Miranda was never gay to begin with. Watch the original show - she craved the d and never behaved as someone repressing secret, forbidden desires. Miranda's lesbian awakening never worked to begin with, for just that reason. Had we only just Miranda, I might've bought it. But we knew her for six years and two films as a raging heterosexual with zero interest in women.

And one more thing: Nixon's comparison of the Steve/ Miranda/ Che triangle to the Big/Carrie/ Aiden triangle doesn't work. We as an audience might have disliked Big, but we could understand why Carrie was obsessed with him. With Che? Not so much.

r498 what about this?

or this ?

Yes, the Big/Carrie connection went back years. One understands why she still had feelings for him despite being with Aiden. Miranda knew Che for just a few months.

That was a big issue with CliCHE. We were constantly being told how hilarious, sexy, famous and popular she was but her entire personality was "I'm horny and smoke weed".

Even my most woke friends cringed at CliCHE.

Yeah the adolescent horny weed smoking stud is beyond cringe. It would have been interesting to see Miranda with another working class love interest (similar to Steve) but someone who is her intellectual equal. Maybe a teamster who is voracious reader she meets delivering to the Steve's pub? I chose that because there was teamster I worked several shows with, who during his down time read physics books, New York Times, Washington Post, Wall Street Journal, Atlantic Monthly etc. I should say this was 90's and early 2000's before he retired.

It would have been intriguing to see Miranda challenged, feisty and turned on by the chemistry and mental stimulation. She's a lawyer, some part of her must get juiced up from debate no? Someone that throws her off kilter in the best ways. Miranda is a character that can take having a lot thrown at her, it's infuriating to see her dumbed down acting like an idiot.

Still I think Nixon got what she wanted because look who is being talked about the most, here and probably on most other boards, her, her character and her story.

Yes, but at the cost of the audience's love for her character. I could give a fuck about ever seeing Miranda again.

That interview is so fucking arrogant. "If you want more Sex and the City, watch the re-runs. And Just LIke That Isn't SATC." Really, bitch? Do you think HBO would have paid you a million bucks an episode if this were just the story of three random middle-aged bags? The audience wanted a show that was recognizably a continuation of SATC. It didn't have to have all the sexy shenanigans of the original show, but the characters had to seem like (older) versions of themselves.

[quote]I’d moved to Sag Harbor, and I had all these friends who were suddenly divorced. It was literally my friends who I wrote about in “Sex and the City,” but twenty-five years later, with these very different lives. The challenge is almost that you have to find yourself again, in a new way, with different cards. I call it middle-aged madness, but there’s also a real courage that happens, this thing of, “I’m not going to take ‘no’ anymore. I’m not afraid of ‘no.’ ”

This is from Bushnell's interview with the New Yorker, why didn't they go back to the source for this reboot?

[quote]Was my own world only white people? No, of course not—that’s just not New York. But, for the show, that was how people cast things then, it was the way that people in TV were. I don’t think anyone was consciously trying to be nasty about it; they just really didn’t think.

I didn't know that Candace is such a fascinating woman, what a power house, the tv show does not do her justice. Now I want to see her stage show.

R573 it seems clear to me that there's no loss between Candace and SJP. SJP claims complete ownership of the character and Candace stuck up for AnnaSophia Robb when SJP bitched about the prequel series.

SJP thinks she owns Carrie Bradshaw.

Bushnell seemed very diplomatic. She probably gets thrown a few bucks per episode for her credit, so she's not going to be too nasty, but she's also not delusional about the new series, either.

Nixon doesn't do a good job of both kevelling over "Ada" (a somewhat thankless role as a nebbish-y sister; basically Edith in Downton w/o the editor role and the fancy husband) while defending Miranda's headlong "brave" jump into a new relationship with non-binary person. Miranda may have been intemperate at times in her speech, but she never did anything important impulsively. If they were going to have her go head over heels for Che, it needed to be presented as a break in character and the consequences for Steve and Brady needed to be a bigger part of it. Steve gets one good scene (with Carrie not Miranda) but is treated as intellectual disabled otherwise. His hearing loss is treated very insensitively through the series--a missed opportunity to deal with a kind of diversity. The show owes its viewers some continuity with the SATC and the movies. Che does not seem to be emotional invested in the relationship and, in fact, her best scenes were where she tried to bring some reality to Miranda. This may be fiction but it needs to have realistic enough situations and motives to enable the viewer to embrace the fiction.

[Quote] and Candace stuck up for AnnaSophia Robb when SJP bitched about the prequel series.

They should bring AnnaSophia on for a flashback episode 😏

Get AnnaSophia on Emily in Paris.

Can we do one more thread??

I don't know...seems pretty unnecessary.

Can we agree that we will wait until HBOMax decides to renew or not and then start a new thread?

Candace was never SJP's Carrie Bradshaw. She was much more of a Charlotte - very pretty and naturally blonde. She married the Peter Martins of the ABT, who sadly abandoned their marriage for a young ballerina. Candace and SJP's Carrie main point of commonality is that they both smoked non-stop.

Carrie’s smoking was such a turn off. The show really took delight in the girls judging and mocking Samantha. SJP had a great body during the first run but that’s about it.

SJP's Carrie evolved into someone more Charlotte-like than Charlotte---really a prudish voyeur and someone desperate for something unavailable.

How come the link at r579 doesn't work?

It just linking back to this thread, r585. If r579 created a new thread they linked incorrectly

Part 10