Coronavirus Megathread 12: Gaslight

Previous thread.

What’s your point, OP?

Coronavirus isn’t going away anytime soon. Omicron is super transmissible although seemingly less serious in terms of severity. I got it even though I was double vaxxed and boostered abs likely had the first variant in year 1. Unless you live in a hermetically sealed capsule, you will likely eventually get it. Get vaxxed and stay boostered to limit morbidity. Avoid unvaxxed persons, wear KN95 masks, avoid huge gatherings. Try to do some living.

No one should be loosening their guard at a time when hospitals are swamped. You don't *know* that you won't need medical attention, and you might not be able to get it.

You give good advice in your last sentence, but that's not what we've been hearing during the last few months from most quarters.

Perfect title.

We will be in a much better situation in a month or two.* Omicron will be winding down (if our wave follows the trend of other countries). Tests will be more abundant, so you'll be able to get diagnosed more quickly. And Paxlovid will start to become more widely available, which will be a real game-changer. So I don't have a problem being a bit more careful right now, if only to ease the incredible strain on health care systems.

*Of course, a new variant could blow this out of the water.

Tell me you're a Republican without telling me:

Why was Ingrid Bergman terrified in every film up until the 1950s? Someone is always trying to kill her.

No surprise:

"More than two-thirds of the common side-effects people experience after a Covid jab can be attributed to a negative version of the placebo effect rather than the vaccine itself, researchers claim.

Their findings suggest that a substantial proportion of milder side-effects, such as headaches, short-term fatigue, and arm pain are not produced by the constituents of the vaccine, but by other factors thought to generate the nocebo response, including anxiety, expectation and misattributing various ailments to having had the jab."

To add to R3's rebuttal of R2: we don't want to give any more space for new variants to emerge than we have to. Also, long-term effects are not well understood, and are not pretty.

Wait, what, R8? I can see anxiety and expectation causing "nocebo" effects such as headaches and fatigue, but arm pain is most assuredly caused by the vaccine. There was a distinctive difference between the arm experienced from my Covid vaccines as opposed to. say, a flu shot.

Or someTHING, r7!

Arm pain isn't caused by a covid vaccine per se; it's cause by the needle going into muscle tissue. I get the same thing with a tetanus shot, flu shot, etc. If your arm pain was different after the covid vaccine, R10, it may just have been because the person stuck the needle in differently: I've had worse and lesser pain depending on the person sticking the needle in (my first covid shot was luckily administered by an experienced older nurse and I barely felt a thing, and the ensuing pain lasted less than a day).

[quote]Arm pain isn't caused by a covid vaccine per se; it's cause by the needle going into muscle tissue.

Yes and no. If there’s soreness right away, that’s more likely due to the injection of fluid into muscle tissue. That happens most often with higher volume vaccines and/or those with higher viscosity.

On very rare occasions—depending on needle length and thickness of the subcutaneous fat layer—some or all of the vaccine doesn’t make it into the muscle. That usually causes more of an immediate burning sensation.

The soreness and discomfort that starts hours after an injection is caused by the immune response.

As far as getting an IM injection wrong, if midway between the acromion and the deltoid tuberosity isn’t targeted, that can result in anything from a hitting bone to SIRVA. It isn’t that easy to do unless the person administering isn’t paying any attention whatsoever, but taking the extra moment with a geriatric patient to palpate the full deltoid (which are often like pancakes) is always a good idea.

And then there's the other 33% R8.

Yup, them vaccines are sure workin' well!

[quote]Yup, them vaccines are sure workin' well!

Sure looks to me like they are:

Much appreciation, Sylvia and Elder, for these threads and the info you and everyone here provide.

BTW great title. Most apt at this time.

That was my experience, R13, and most people I know - no immediate pain except for the initial pinch of the needle followed by heaviness and soreness in the upper arm as the day progressed.

Interesting stats from the CDC today, via CNN:

“Less than 0.2% of Covid-19 deaths in the United States have been among children, according to data from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Children account for about one in five (22%) people in the US population overall, but about one in every 645 Covid-19 deaths and one in every six Covid-19 cases since the start of the pandemic.

There have been about 1,100 deaths and about 8.3 million cases among children, according to CDC data.

More than three-quarters of Covid-19 deaths have been among seniors, including more than a quarter that have been among people age 85 and older.

There have been more than 200,000 Covid-19 deaths among people age 85 and older, who represent about 2% of the US population overall, CDC data shows. Comparatively, there have been less than 400 Covid-19 deaths among children under 5, who represent about 6% of the US population overall.”

R19: "“Less than 0.2% of Covid-19 deaths in the United States have been among children, according to data from the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention."

And that was true BEFORE MANDATED VACCINATIONS.

I think the concern with children has always been around long COVID (for them) and transmission to others.

R21 And now, increased risk of diabetes.

I work in a non-patient facing role at a large metro hospital, in an office building. So many personnel are out with Covid that they’re asking office staff for volunteers to work at the actual hospital: answering call lights, admitting patients, mopping floors.

Don’t get sick, you may have an accountant taking your vitals!

I've been feeling punky since Saturday so this morning I did a rapid COVID test. I was very nervous. Negative. My doctor recommended another test in a few days, but he said he thinks I'm just tired from some work issues.

Good thread title.

[quote]Don’t get sick, you may have an accountant taking your vitals!

Between this^ and infected CA healthcare workers not having to isolate at all as long as they self-report that they're asymptomatic, what could possibly go wrong?

And that's not even counting the hordes of healthy people clogging emergency departments because they can't get a test anywhere else.

[quote]CNN’s @ Arianedevogue confirms that Sotomayor is participating remotely because she does not feel comfortable sitting next to Gorsuch, who refuses to wear a mask.

Joy is talking to an Oklahoma doctor. He said of the hospitalized for Covid, 80%-90% are unvaccinated.

It would be terrible if Gorsuch's aggressive carelessness sent him to an early grave and Biden had to replace him.

R21

The risk of increased diabetes for children is concerning. About 5 years ago, unrelated to covid, a friend's grandson, aged 2 1/2 years, was diagnosed with diabetes. He had a fever and was very thirsty. The mother thought he might have a urinary infection due to symptoms of increased urination and thirst. Tests revealed he had a virus and as a result developed diabetes. No family history on either side of this disease. He was hospitalized for a few days to stabilize him and get the family ready to monitor his glucose and administer injections of insulin. Poor little thing.

Prior to this, through ignorance I didn't know that diabetes could happen this way. I thought kids with Type 1 were the result of genetics.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

I want free N95 masks!!!

R31 Better late than never!

[quote]from the federal Strategic National Stockpile

But...but...I thought they were Jared's!

I fucking hate that the Biden Administration is trying so hard to actually do things that will help and come election time, none of it will matter because, no matter what they do, the fucking idiot Repugs all over the country will continue to completely undermine public health and safety and the entire economy. I wish every Repug would fucking die.

We're into our third year and Alisyn Camerota is holding up a KN95 and calling it "this N95 with ear straps," and asking if they can be washed.

Victor Blackwell then remembers hearing that N95s are no good you have a beard* and announces that he is NOT going to shave his beard. "So, my mask is dirty [italic]and[/italic] I'm not getting a good seal?"

Laughter all around, because let's all discourage people from even bothering to take advantage of the free N95s which are about to become available.

*That is the guidance for fit-tested N95s in clinical settings, not for someone going to Target who would otherwise be reusing a surgical mask or still wearing the cloth mask meemaw made in the spring of 2020.

I found this interesting, especially as I was on blood thinners for a year until recently.

only 3 masks per person.

Another in the annals of "tell me you're a Republican without telling me":

Where is the peer reviewed literature, r37?

R38, if casual users rotate the three and air them out in between they can probably get close to six weeks, total, as long as they’re careful with the straps and aren’t sweating up a storm. They’re also available to purchase all over the place now.

People have received the message that N95s are too uncomfortable and they won’t be able to tolerate wearing one, so they don’t even try. And now we have talking heads on CNN driving that message home to them as if they’re auditioning for OAN.

If you bothered to click on the article, r40, you’d know that the peer-reviewed study is being published on Thursday.

I wear my KN95 masks for about 4 1/2 hours at a time. I put each in a paper bag after I wear them once, write the date on the bag, then re-use them 2-3 weeks later. I will use them 3-4 times before tossing.

I also have a KN95 mask I use daily for making quick trips in my building for things like going to the trash chute, grabbing the mail, doing laundry, etc. Those I will use for about 2-3 weeks because I'm wearing them for 5-10 min at a time tops.

r37 Interesting, I've been on heparin since October of 2020 after getting long Covid and developing hypercoagulation from it. Ever since I've been on it, my long Covid went away and I've never been reinfected.

Try reading the linked article, R40. I can understand that doing so places an intolerable burden on you. Much better to ask someone else, right?

R42, r45, "A randomised, peer reviewed study of 98 patients, to be published in the British Journal of Clinical Pharmacology on Thursday, found heparin was safe, with no concerning side effects among patients who inhaled a therapeutic dose of the drug."

That says NOTHING about the efficacy of the drug against COVID. All it says is that Heparin is safe. That's like saying water is safe to drink and they are studying its affect on COVID.

Try again R40/R46 - the peer-reviewed study is being released on Thursday 20th January, which it is now in Australia.

My booster is scheduled for 1015 on 26 January. I hope the Omicron cooties keep away from me until 1100 that day.

This study? Doesn't say it did anything for Covid.

I mean the full article says it is generally safe for patients, but it isn't really a treatment or cure .

They're Telling People to Inhale Hydrogen Peroxide for COVID

First of all, nebulized unfractionated heparin is used off-label all the time for acute lung injury, viral pneumonia, pulmonary fibrosis, smoke inhalation, CF, thromboembolism, bronchial asthma, AHR, for patients at risk of ARDS, etc. It's used for just about every lung disorder you can think of. When you remove the novelty of COVID, there's nothing really new.

What was published today regards the safety of unfractionated heparin as a treatment for COVID pneumonia and serves as supporting data for their ongoing studies, which are expected to be published soon.

It appears to be well tolerated, with only two SAEs—a thigh hematoma and a bleeding gastric ulcer which required transfusion. Both patients were receiving therapeutic anticoagulation. There were sixteen minor bleeds and thirteen of those patients were on therapeutic anticoagulation. All things considered, not bad at all.

As this was a case series there was no control group, and since a good number of the patients (both intubated and non-) were on a bunch of other therapeutics, the relevancy of the quick improvements in oxygenation is TBD.

A friend of mine is on a blood thinner (warfarin) because of a genetic clotting condition. He many have had covid in January 2020, before anyone in the U.S. really knew what it was. In April 2020, he was admitted to the hospital for a clot in his lungs -- the first time he got a clot since he began warfarin. So maybe heparin has some quality that warfarin does not.

R44, it's fantastic that heparin rid you of long covid!

An Op/Ed piece from the Washington Post on the CBD COVID claims.

Anti-Vax Folk Singer Dies After Intentionally Catching COVID

R55, even the Darwin awards are like, "Really?!"

Pretty compelling figures from the large Geisinger health system in Pennsylvania today:

"Of the 70 COVID patients Geisinger is treating in the ICU, 61 are not fully vaccinated and 8 of the 9 who were fully vaccinated had not received a shot in the last 180 days."

So of their 70 ICU patients, only one had had a booster or primary shot in the last 6 months.

It'll be interesting to see how this goes:

Damn, according to Worldodometer, there was 2530 deaths in the US yesterday. It's been a loooong time since it's been that high.

Confirmation that New York is post-peak. I do expect the US death rate to go above 3,000 per day when the less vaccinated parts of the country peak in February.

R60, I bet a whole lot of people don't realize yet that Omicron hasn't even started its full ascent in most of the unvaccinated western half of the country.

R61 omicron is everywhere right now from coast to coast, and the vaccinated and unvaccinated alike are spreading it like wildfire. I know multiple people, vaccinated and not, who have recently contracted it. Both my parents who are vaccinated and boosted caught it and were fairly sick (high fevers for a couple of days, headaches, fatigue) but fortunately didn’t need medical intervention. I also caught it and had similar symptoms, as well as terrible joint pain. The transmissibility of omicron is much higher than the previous strains, and the facts are the facts: though highly contagious, it is not nearly as deadly as the alpha or delta variants, and whether or not the vaccines are effective in preventing symptoms for most is unclear. Omicron does not really replicate in lung tissue, instead impacting the upper respiratory tract. This is good news because it means few people will suffer serious lung problems or pneumonia from it, which is what was killing so many with the alpha and delta variants. I am hoping that omicron is a blessing in disguise and that it might lead to a herd immunity in the coming year, with fewer casualties in its wake.

[quote]...omicron is everywhere right now from coast to coast, and the vaccinated and unvaccinated alike are spreading it like wildfire.

As I said, R62, it is still at the start of its ascent in the western states. The East, California, a lot of the more populated areas of the South and upper Midwest have reached their peaks already. The rest of the country won't get there for another month. The states that are just starting their steepest ascents are the least vaccinated. It's going to be a fucking disaster because they also lack the medical resources that the more populated areas have at their disposal.

And, bullshit about the vaccinated passing it as much as the unvaccinated. Completely untrue. The vaccinated carry less virus and clear the virus much more quickly and therefore are infectious for a shorter amount of time and aren't spewing out as much virus into the world as the fucking pieces of shit who refuse to get vaccinated.

[quote]And, bullshit about the vaccinated passing it as much as the unvaccinated. Completely untrue. The vaccinated carry less virus and clear the virus much more quickly and therefore are infectious for a shorter amount of time and aren't spewing out as much virus into the world as the fucking pieces of shit who refuse to get vaccinated.

That's not the case with Omicron anymore, babes. This is due to the fact that Omicron mostly stays in the upper respiratory tract. It is in this specific location that the viral loads are virtually equal between the vaccinated and unvaccinated groups. Also, the more vaccinated people there are, the more likely that it's going to be vaccinated people spreading it, anyway, by sheer numbers alone. Even if 100% of the human population were vaccinated, it doesn't matter, man. The vaccines do not stop infection or transmission 100%. So, regardless of how "short the infectious window," [bold]there's still an infectious window in the first place.[/bold] That means the virus will continue to circulate, regardless. You stop virus circulation, by stopping infection and subsequent transmission.

I mean, do you all not see what's happened here, lol? It literally went from:

"The vaccine prevents you from catching it and spreading it to others."

TO

"The vaccine doesn't prevent you from catching it but it lessens the likelihood that you'll spread it to others. You also won't get severely ill."

TO

"You can still spread it to others while vaccinated, but for a shorter amount of time, and are less likely to get severely ill, but you won't get hospitalized or die."

TO

"You can spread it as easily as an unvaccinated person, but for a shorter period of time and are less likely to get severely ill, hospitalized, or die if you have no comorbidities. All fully vaccinated COVID deaths had a minimum of 4 comorbidities, mainly obesity and heart disease. Let's start talking about comorbidities, now."

TO

"There's a new variant. Everyone can get it and spread it at the same rate, regardless of vaccination status. The current vaccines and boosters don't work, but at least the symptoms are mild and there are still more unvaccinated people getting it than vaccinated."

TO

"The new variant is being found in more vaccinated people than unvaccinated, but it's still mild in the vaccinated and there are still more unvaccinated people in the hospitals."

TO

"More vaccinated people are in the hospital with Omicron than unvaccinated, but a lot of COVID hospitalizations are people being admitted for other illnesses and testing positive on routine COVID screenings while already hospitalized. So, there's a difference between being hospitalized FROM COVID, and being hospitalized WITH COVID. Let's start talking about how COVID hospitalizations are being over-counted, now." -- CDC

TO

"Fuck it. We'll all get it, and the PCR isn't authorized to test for contagiousness so let's shorten the isolation days from 10 days to 5, and not require a negative test to leave quarantine." -- CDC

The narrative is falling apart. How anyone clings to it at this point is beyond me, but do you, boo, lol.

If you're vaccinated, you honestly have nothing to worry about. Omicron is mild and "the experts" are back peddling like the jokes that they are.

R64 lots of people of all sorts are getting Omicron vaccinated and unvaccinated, but how you get from 243 cases per 100,00O people in the vaccinated vs. 2,009 cases per 100,000 people in the unvaccinated is exactly the same risk. Or how you decide that 5 hospitalizations per 100,000 people amongst the vaccinated is the same as 72 hospitalizations per 100,000 unvaccinated people is the same. Or how you decide that because on average Omicron is milder 2,500 deaths a day don’t really count, well it’s a master class in gaslighting. You truly embody the theme of the thread. Brava!

Oh and nice touch linking to a comedian, because everyone knows that’s where the smart people go for medical advice.

The virus doesn't give a shit that you're tired of it.

My county has the highest rate of infection and death that it has had during the pandemic, and about 80% are unmasked.

I live in a very red county in a very blue state. Our infection rate per 100K is higher than the biggest city, and I am really over my neighbors. I liked the live and let live of rural living, until the Trump Cult bleached everyone's minds.

R64 Finally someone who uses head for thinking, not only to give it.

I linked a comedian r65 because the fear you fully vaccinated and boosted people are still showing this virus in fucking 2022, specifically Omicron, at this point, is a fucking joke.

Move on.

At least you tried to make your bullshit clever, R68.

Also, r65 if you prefer more medical/science-based info as opposed to tongue-in-cheek satirical delivery of basically the same information, you can try this physician here:

^^ "That doctor's take doesn't count. He's a quack that says the opposite of what I believe." -- Comatose DLers, probably.

The idea that understanding a credible threat or discussing a fascinating and novel infectious disease is fear is the type of reasoning a person without a fully developed frontal lobe would make.

I am not sure why you think I am living in fear. I mean i did go to Disney World two weeks ago. Now if I weren’t vaccinated I WOULD be living in fear and for good reason.

Elderlez, don't you trust scientist who say you can catch Covid vaccinated or not?

Fair enough, r73. I probably shouldn't have said "you" fully vaccinated and boosted people, and just said fully-vaccinated and boosted people. I can personally attest there are fully vaccinated and boosted people who couldn't care less about Omicron or COVID anymore because...[italic]they're fully vaccinated and/or boosted.[/italic]

But you have to admit that there is definitely a subset of this group that is still terrified to a point where it's bordering on clinical and may very well deserve its own entry in the DSM, in the near future. Call it Pandemic-Induced Panic Disorder. Actually, I think that may already legitimately exist.

LOL! Holy shit!

And I want to clear up, I'm not laughing at anyone who experiences that, and it's not funny. I, too, have anxiety. I'm just kinda tripping out that I got the name for it exactly right before I looked it up, lol.

But this would fall under the mental health toll that the pandemic has taken on people already struggling with that, and who have, seemingly, been forgotten by our "expert overlords" when it came to guiding public policy.

For someone not laughing at anyone, you sure do LOL a lot.

While there are mental health impacts to the pandemic, I don’t judge people who are more careful than I am. The jury is still out on the risk of long COVID in vaccinated people who get infected. And then people have underlying conditions that might put them at higher risk. I was very concerned about my own immune response to the vaccine given my immunosuppressant medication. I never would have gone to Disney when I did if I hadn’t gotten my antibody results showing that I had a robust response. And very few people have access to that information. Being risk averse specific to your individual circumstances is not panicking.

You know who I do judge? People who spread medical misinformation to encourage vaccine hesitancy. Those people are just straight up murderers in my book.

[quote]I mean, do you all not see what's happened here, lol? It literally went from:

I know, right? It's almost as if medical understanding has evolved along with the virus. Just crazy!

[quote]I don’t judge people who are more careful than I am.

I never did before, either, as "certified" germaphobe, myself. However, I draw the line at these people allowing their fear to get so intense that they want the government and law enforcement to restrict the freedoms and livelihoods of others just to feel safe. Some have even expressed a desire for people who don't share their views on this matter to die, and they were being very serious. Look. If your concern is at that level of intensity, then just never leave your house, and let other people go about their business.

And frankly, I don't equate questioning the logic behind, say, the implementation of certain public health policies in lieu of the medical data to spreading medical misinformation.

[quote]It's almost as if medical understanding has evolved along with the virus.

Actually, it's almost as if this is a mass experiment on humanity. Believe it or not, I honestly don't have a problem with that being the case, provided there is 100% transparency from those leading said experiment and all participants are willing volunteers to honor the medical ethics code of informed consent. Unfortunately, that is not taking place.

For example, this shit is where I have a problem. You're fearful, fine whatever. Become a hermit and call it a day. But don't advocate for the government and police to fuck with me and mine. That's all I'm saying

There’s very clear evidence that the unvaxxed are dying at a much higher rate than the vaxxed and there is legal precedent for wrongful death findings against people who send messages encouraging people to take actions that result in their deaths and many of the purveyors of the misinformation 1) do not offer any disclaimers about their own lack of qualifications and the need to consult a physician 2) have lots of money. I really do think the families of the dead unvaxxed should band together with class action civil litigation wrongful death lawsuits.

[quote] That's all I'm saying

Would that were true r82.

Well, I'll certainly take that Rasmussen Reports-Heartland Institute poll referenced at R82 at face value because they've never shown themselves to have any kind of agenda.

[quote]band together with class action civil litigation wrongful death lawsuits.

Do you feel the same way about the thousands of deaths that likely could've been prevented with early drug treatments that were being withheld by health authorities? Do you also agree that the pharmaceutical companies manufacturing these vaccines shouldn't have "immunity" from lawsuits should their product maim, harm, or kill anyone? Just curious.

r85, While you're not exactly wrong, I can't say that I the a large portion of sentiments expressed here on DL from various users don't mirror that Rasmussen poll.

For every treatment that was withheld pending efficacy results that eventually did arrive there were multiple others that were held pending efficacy results that never arrived because they didn’t work. Your argument is specious.

I personally prefer the EU model of adverse event liability. But every model has pluses and minuses. I think the trade-offs in this case were reasonable even if it wasn’t the decision I would have made.

[quote]For every treatment that was withheld pending efficacy results [bold]that eventually did arrive[/bold]

Surely, you realize, that I am referring to treatments that fall into this category. I think we both know that one drug showed enough promise in clinical observational studies to warrant, at the very least, EUA while simultaneously running more RCTs. That drug has been the subject of much controversy as a result.

Why would the FDA not, at least, grant an EUA? I mean, after all, they did give EUA to a test that isn't authorized to test for contagiousness to manage the spread of a...contagious disease. Meanwhile, the test that is far more accurate at detecting contagiousness (rapid antigen) and is cheaper, was shot down as inferior because it's "not as sensitive" as the test that isn't authorized to test for contagiousness...in a pandemic.

Does that make scientific and medical sense, to you?

The "expert" making jokes in the video is JP Sears. He doesn't believe Biden won the election.

I never presented him as "an expert." That video is very obviously a satirical delivery of actual news stories a la SNL's Weekend Update...but funnier.

And yeah, like a lot of people, he used to make fun of "alternative medicine nutbags" and [bold]actual[/bold] anti-vaxxers myself included. And still do. This specific virus and its management by government leaders and health authorities has just left me with a lot of fucking questions.

Unsurprisingly, the more people demonize others for being skeptical and the media tries to smear credentialed scientists with hardcore CVs as "quacks," the more questions I have and the less I trust them.

[quote]Unsurprisingly, the more people demonize others for being skeptical and the media tries to smear credentialed scientists with hardcore CVs as "quacks," the more questions I have and the less I trust them.

Similar to how flat earthers react when anyone suggests they may not be thinking straight, I would imagine.

I still think it's funny how the trolls have no understanding of DL and who they're dealing with here.

[quote] they want the government and law enforcement to restrict the freedoms and livelihoods of others just to feel safe

Why is it that right-wingers always assume that arguments are based on "feelings"? Could they be projecting?

(And yes, that poster is aligning themselves with the political right, whatever they may think about that label.)

And their goddamn "freedoms", r93!

R58, people here don't give a fuck that much. Many are vaccinated, quite a lot are already boostered. Those who rant are the usual suspects - anti-vaxxers and that sort of ilk.

According to some polls released yesterday, about 80 percent (!) don't care if anti vax loons will need to pay fines for remaining unvaxxed in the future. Out of these 80 percent, apparently almost everyone doesn't mind at all if anti vaxxers are to be fined, with quite a percentage even saying those fines are set far too low.

I guess that's because people here have had it up to here with these loons by now. Not necessarily because of them remaining unvaccinated, but because of a minority of these weirdos getting more and more aggressive, i. e. attacking and threatening docs and nurses in front of hospitals, insulting kids wearing masks etc. There have been quite a few incidents like that in the past few weeks and many people are pissed off with the lunatics.

Given Austria's rather inglorious past re kids (poor Natascha Kampusch and the Fritzl bloke come to mind here), one might think people don't care if children are getting attacked. Quite the contrary -- in fact this is what is enraging the majority, ultimately turning against the rabid anti vaxxers. With them starting to attack children, they have crossed the red line and people here have had enough at last.

An incident enraging people here took place only the day before yesterday:

[quote] During the demonstration against compulsory vaccination in Linz [the capital of Upper Austria] on Wednesday, participants besieged a crèche - apparently because they had discovered pupils wearing masks behind the window panes. The result: numerous crying and frightened children. The demonstration marched through Wiener Straße in the afternoon, past an after-school care center. Because of the noise, several children started to look out of the window. When the demonstration participants discovered the mask-wearing children, they took this as an opportunity to stop and loudly criticize the mask requirement. The after-school care center was sounded with announcements through a megaphone and with a concert of whistles. Parents who contacted ORF Upper Austria reported that, for example, "Your parents are killing you with the vaccine" was shouted. [...]

[quote]When the demonstration participants discovered the mask-wearing children, they took this as an opportunity to stop and loudly criticize the mask requirement ... for example, "Your parents are killing you with the vaccine" was shouted.

The kind of measured, thoughtful response R64 would ask us to respect.

Aye, don't put words in my mouth r97. The hysteria over mask wearing is idiotic and blown out of proportion, too. I don't have a problem with mask mandates and honestly prefer wearing one to cover my face in public for various reasons. So, back up off me, thanks.

The anti-vaxxers attacked baby Jesus in a crèche R96? SMH

R64, you're the one who says we have to listen to "credentialed scientists" who counter the mainstream narrative. Why shouldn't we listen to those who claim masks deprive your body of oxygen, cause carbon dioxide poisoning or harm the immune system?

Like this poor doctor, who lost his medical license for daring to confront the "dangers" of mask wearing.

ElderLez, at the risk of stepping on a joke, I believe in this case "crèche" is actually the equivalent of a nursery school rather than the natal resting spot of the dear sweet lord baby jesus.

creche = British English

It's what people in the US call an after school center.

Aaaahhh that makes so much more sense!

[quote][R64], you're the one who says we [bold]have to[/bold] listen to "credentialed scientists" who counter the mainstream narrative.

No. I distinctly said the authoritarian (and in some cases condescending) approach leadership, the media, and social platforms have dismissed those scientists is what makes me ask more questions and fuels my trust issues. I never, and will never, argue that anyone [bold]has to[/bold] to listen to any of these people regardless of where you stand.

Yale research team develops wearable clip to detect COVID

Researchers at the Yale School of Public Health have developed a wearable clip that can detect if a person may have been exposed to COVID-19.

The device captures virus-laden aerosols that deposit on a polydimethylsiloxane (PDMS) surface, according to a study published earlier this month in the peer-reviewed journal, Environmental Science and Technology Letters.

Krystal Godri Pollitt, who led the team of researchers who developed the clip, told Fox News it came about through her research measuring a person’s exposure to environmental factors.

“Through that work, I developed wearable tools that we can measure our exposure to lots of different chemicals within the air and other airborne factors,” Godri Pollitt said.

Her team pivoted to respiratory viruses in March 2020 when the COVID-19 pandemic hit.

The wearable clip is designed to be reusable with the polymer films being changed. It is intended as a complementary device to at-home testing kits.

“We want to go a step before that and be able to start thinking about, do we need more infectious control measures in place, do we need less people in this space? Do we need more ventilation?” Godri Pollitt said. “And also thinking about if people are at a potential risk for being infected? If we detect it within the air, there’s a good chance that maybe those people are at risk and should be quarantining.”

Godri Pollitt told Fox News there is a lot of potential in expanding the clip to other respiratory viruses. The clip is not yet publicly available, but Godri Pollitt hopes it will be in the near future.

Dr. Scott Gottlieb video clip on infections in the US.

(Also vert cool R105)

[quote] "Just get and get it over with..."

This might have been mentioned in the thread already, but I read about a woman in Europe who actually went out and got it on purpose so she could get over it and then get the stamp to get into concerts, museums, etc.

It killed her.

R107, she was a Czech folk singer.

Kind of an odd stat for a mild variant.

See r55, r107.

It's the fact that it's so much more infectious. Even with being milder, it's infecting like ten times as many people as Delta did, so hospitalizations especially in unvaxxed areas are off the charts.

Slightly milder, extraordinarily more infectious, only one scarce monoclonal antibody available that is effective in treating it, Paxlovid not widely available until April.

It’s a perfect storm for the unvaxxed, the health care providers who treat them and anyone else unlucky enough to require medical care during this time.

[quote]so hospitalizations especially in unvaxxed areas are off the charts.

In what vaxxed area are they off the charts, r111?

Thanks r108 and r110

I hesitate to post this because I have no backup to its validity. Has anyone caught wind of anything this ominous information or is this fake.

[quote] Right now, it is unclear just what is going on in China except that the ChiComs have shut down entire cities under strict quarantine and closed at least two airports and entirely or partial closed three of their largest seaports. Just what exactly has the ChiComs so spooked is unknown but it is rumoured that a hemorrhagic type covid illness has been spreading exponentially in Beijing and its surrounding areas. With the start of the Olympics only days away, we may be looking at the biggest super spreader event to date of a new and deadly covid type variant which would then be spread worldwide.

Hospitalizations in New York got up substantially over last winter’s peak with the vast majority of them being unvaxxed in an area where the overwhelming majority of people were vaxxed.

It wasn’t off the charts compared to 4/3/2020, but it still was extraordinarily high.

R115 where is that from?

R115 isn’t that just the CCP’s response to Omicron in general?

I swear to G r115 if that is true....

China is locking cities down due to omicron. The "hemorrhagic type covid illness" is feverish speculation by the usual conspiracy theorists.

Although, in the case of China, nothing can be definitively ruled out.

"Hemorrhagic" is not the word anyone wants to hear right now. Let this be fucking over!

It was buried in a message board here in Honolulu. Most of the discussion is very scientific and respectful and not argumentative. That’s why this speculation stood out. And yes, hemorrhagic is not a word I want to see.

"Hemorrhagic fever is a common infectious disease in northern China. Starting from October every year, some areas of Shaanxi [of which Xi'an is the provincial capital] enter the high incidence season of hemorrhagic fever."

That’s nothing new. China has a zero-tolerance policy, and they take it extremely seriously.

I know someone who’s there right now, who, despite all of the pre-flight testing (they also require IgM), tested positive five days into his hotel quarantine. Based on the timing, he probably caught it on the plane.

He’s asymptomatic but they moved him to a hospital where he’s being kept for fourteen days. After that, it’s back to hotel quarantine for another fourteen.

[quote] That’s nothing new. China has a zero-tolerance policy, and they take it extremely seriously.

They have to since the Winter Olympic Games are about to start and they want to make them into a full success, "propaganda"-wise.

R115, Isn't "ChiComs" considered derogatory? Is the quote from a news site or someone's Facebook page?

Yes 126, This is a local Hawaiian message board and the culture is not particularly concerned about hurting feelings. Also differentiates between Taiwan, Hong Kong and Communist China proper.

R104, do you believe in facts? Do you understand that there are facts and there are lies. There is zero reason to listen to lies. The loss of the concept of truth in this country is one of the most damning Repug legacies. No, there are not individual truths. There is factual truth and there is bullshit. Pretending the bullshit isn't bullshit doesn't make it stink any less.

R104 has stated her boundaries R128. She judges medical information based upon how deferential the messenger is. How dare you trigger her trust issues with your insistence on objective truth??!! Don’t you know DataLounge is supposed to be a safe space for tr.. er posters spreading sincerely held opinions based upon their fee-fees?

R125, they’ve had small shutdowns all along. It’s just that people are paying more attention now because they’re affecting large cities, and also all eyes are on the Olympics.

As for the quarantine measures, they’ve also been consistent. You’re in a hotel room with closed windows and and in most cases an individual air conditioner; someone in ten pounds of PPE comes to take your temp every day; your meals are left outside the door and frequently feature smiley-face potatoes; you can have bottled water and sealed food delivered, but no prepared food at all—you can buy shrink-wrapped vegetables to make a salad, but you can’t buy a salad.

All this can be yours for $70-90/day.

[quote]frequently feature smiley-face potatoes

Calling all Gregs!

Your prunes are *always* rotting, r131.

Question for E.L. - I'm in CA and just sent away for the four free tests. Will they tell us if we have EVER had Covid? I'm planning to go get one of those at some point. TIA!

Not Elderlez, R133, but the answer is no. They will only tell you if you currently have the virus. And, they might not be that good at picking up Omicron. Better than nothing.

Thanks R134!

Bari Weiss is such a cunt.

I'm also not an EL, but I am an MD.

To find out if you've had COVID, you'd need a blood test for antibodies. However, the results should never be self-interpreted as proof of protective immunity. In addition, there are other caveats:

Samples drawn prior to seroconversion will yield a false negative as will a test that's done too long after infection. Having had one of the four human coronavirus that cause mild upper-respiratory illnesses can skew the results. Testing for antibodies also won't give you any idea of what's going on with your B and T cells. So a lot more goes into this than just having circulating antibodies.

The tests available are semi-quantitative total antibody, IgA, IgM, IgG, and nucleocapsid. The first three are specific to antibodies to the spike protein, which is also what vaccines trigger the body to create. Antibodies to nucleocapsid protein only come from prior infection.

Again, though, these things don't circulate forever and if you were infected a long time ago, you won't necessarily find that out.

R137 Thank you! I love DL.

[quote]This might have been mentioned in the thread already, but I read about a woman in Europe who actually went out and got it on purpose so she could get over it and then get the stamp to get into concerts, museums, etc. It killed her.

Why would it kill her? Did she have any underlying conditions?

25k new cases in Norway. We're a population of 5 million. This is insane.

R140 Denmark & Norway where the first countries outside of South Africa for Omicron to take off and that both countries are still getting huge numbers.

We are being told in Australia that we have reached 'the peak' but I don't believe. Half the population have locked themselves away and it can be very hard to get a test. Actually, we have been discouraged by Governments (State and Federal) not to get tested which I think explains more why our numbers are falling.

The deaths though keep rising though.

R141 Seriously?! We get free rapid tests here. If we test positive we go to get an antigen (pcr) test. We are encouraged to get tested (rapid) if we have any cold symptoms. They still have people in full positions working 8-10 hours a day to call any and all contacts to infected people who could also be infected. We have a system in place here. Though they say with more infected people it gets increasingly difficult to call people. Hence why they are now talking about changing it to those infected taking on the full responsibility of testing and contacting people themselves. I think it's a good idea as 90 % are vaxxed here and omicron is milder, leading to fewer hospitalizations and deaths.

R142 People have to pay for RATs tests in Australia, if they can find any in the first place.

The Government is intending to make them free for certain occupations and concession cards holders but thats it. They have of course including themselves are essential services so they won't be paying for them. Given how hopeless our politicians are at all levels of Government it is a joke.

Whilst we don't have to pay for PCR tests they are discouraged unless you actually have displaying symptoms but prefer that you don't get tested and just stay home for 5 days.

One of the reasons I suspect deaths are so high and are only going to rise is much of Australia is that outside of Melbourne in July to September 2020 Australia hasn't had that much impact from the virus therefore sparing the lives of the most vulnerable. However, now that there is a 'let it rip, don't bother testing' in place there are a group of people that no matter that they have had their two shots and a booster will still nevertheless die as a result.

The virus is only just getting started in aged care homes and will explode in coming weeks. Also, school is back next week in most states and that will cause a surge of cases as most children have still not been vaccinated.

Hey R140, if it makes you feel any better, in that video clip from Scott Gottlieb, he says he expects Omicron to infect 50% of the US population over the course of eight weeks, with 80% either not detected or not reported (no requirement to report home tests.)

In Norway it seems like testing and tracing is far more on top of things so you are probably catching a much larger percentage of cases. If you also have 50% infected over eight weeks that’s a little less than 45,000 per day given your population.

I mean it’s all insane everywhere, but within the context of an insane situation, your numbers actually seem kind of reasonable and probably a testament to your public health infrastructure.

I thought I caught it, so I took a rapid test. Negative. I worked from home the rest of the week and retested -- still negative. I don't know if it was a cold or just stress and anxiety. I'm tired of COVID stress.

ElderLez, reporting on the effectiveness of boosters versus “full vaccination” seems less than clear

According to the CDC boosted individuals had a 90% reduction in adverse events, while individuals who were merely “fully vaccinated” (six months ago or more) were only 57% protected.

But this is not an apples-to-apples comparison.

Did the decrease in protection result from the first two shots having been administered too close together (one month apart) and this close spacing not being sufficient totrigger a lasting immune response; or is it because the boosters, most having been administered relatively recently, are temporarily hiking up protection?

If the former, boosted individuals may not need another booster for a year or more - as with flu and tetanus shots. If the latter, they may need boosters every five months.

It would be very helpful if someone would compare immune response four months after “full (two dose) vaccination” with immune response four months after “boosting.” Such apples-to-apples data should be readily available by now.

In the meantime, confusion reigns.

While rapid tests may be better than nothing at all, they pretty much suck compared to proper PCR tests.

Agreed TSR/R146 - there is so much more we need to learn! And I’d add a third possibility to your two; that it was always just going to be a three dose vaccine like the one for hepatitis. Certainly though the news out of Israel; that fourth Pfizer doses after six-ish months from the third are not an improvement over just three doses is reassuring to those of us who would prefer not to have to get vaccinated every six months.

How long before the vaccine is administered in tempting, multicolored gummy form?

I have 3 close friends that have caught Covid since the end of December. Mild symptoms to almost asymptomatic. And in all three cases, their significant others have tested negative. All vaxxed and boosted. Two couples are in NY and the other couple is in Burbank....

[quote]How long before the vaccine is administered in tempting, multicolored gummy form?

If that were possible, they'd have put it in the drinking water years ago.

They need to put it in beer and Cheetos, if my unvaxxed neighbors are representative.

Concerning the graph at R150, how do they know that the effectiveness of the booster has anything to do with it being the third dose versus having to due with the fact that people go their boosters much more recently? How are people who are newly two-dose vaccinated doing compared to those who were boosted? If someone got their booster on, say, December 20th and another person got their second dose on December 20th, is there a study out there that is showing any difference between their protections?

I guess I'd just like to know if they've actually figured out if the booster is acting more like a usual booster does and conferring longer term protection? Seems like boosters have been going on long enough to start determining that. That Israeli study mentioned by ElderLez about the 4th dose not increasing protection very much over a third dose level would probably tend to point to that but is there a study yet that is actually saying as much?

[quote]I guess I'd just like to know if they've actually figured out if the booster is acting more like a usual booster does and conferring longer term protection?

Looking good after four months, at least.

Every day it's a diff story re: boosters and Omicron. So do we get the 4th shot or not?

I think it depends what country you are in, whether you were eligible for the early third boosters because of underlying medical conditions (if in the US) and what your doctor says.

There’s a lot of surveillance work going on in the United States and I would expect many other countries so we should have lots more information by this summer.

A friend who had the first two vaccinations but hadn't bothered to get the booster came down with Covid last week and is sick as a dog.

Moderately and severely immunocompromised people who had their third primary dose in mid-August qualify right now, assuming the timing works out with any immunosuppressive therapies they may be receiving.

That last part can be a bit of nightmare.

^^In the US, I meant to say.

That does look really good R155. I hope the effectiveness of the booster continues to last. I want to start seeing some numbers on B and T cells, not just antibodies. Hopefully more of those will start coming out soon, too.

R155 Speaking as someone who was boosted back in October, yay!

Why aren't they recommending antibody titer tests and/or T-cell tests to people before saying whether or not you'll need a booster? Everyone's immune system, and subsequent immune response, is different. A T-cell test is probably the best way to measure one's immune response, to any pathogen.

And infection-acquired immunity is finally getting recognized in a more positive light. That, would of course, mean (at least by proxy), that fully-vaccinated people who get infected or have already gotten infected have already received a "natural" booster.

T-Detect drops off too much after ten months. If you want accuracy, you can try to get into a study and have your bone marrow aspirated.

Ouch R165!

[quote]have your bone marrow aspirated.

Your T cells are made in your thymus gland. B cells are made in the bone marrow. Also, come on now, lol. 10 months is more than enough.

[quote]If you want accuracy, you can try to get into a study and have your bone marrow aspirated.

Where in that^^ are you seeing anything specific to T cells? I'm talking about studies, both completed and ongoing, which do indeed aspirate bone marrow. I would know.

We're into the third year. Being limited to the past ten months is not more than enough.

Oh no, I've just seen who I responded to and I'd like to apologize to the rest of the thread for entertaining the menstrual-irregularity-obsessed, YouTube-Qcomedian-posting, vaccinesdeaths-dot-com-citing, thread-monopolizing antivax troll who never sleeps. Now it will never shut up.

Back to the ignore list you go, dear.

I was wondering what you were talking about all of a sudden and then I realized I have that person blocked.

[quote]Where in that^^ are you seeing anything specific to T cells?

Nowhere. That is the point, considering that I was specifically talking about T cells in the first place.

[quote]I'm talking about studies, both completed and ongoing, which do indeed aspirate bone marrow. I would know.

I'm aware of such studies. Once again, however. I was talking about T cells, . So, I'm not really sure what you were on about then nor what you are on about now.

[quote]Oh no, I've just seen who I responded to

Well sir/ma'am, the important thing is that you eventually figure out that regardless of [italic]whom[/italic], you responded to, that objectively [italic]what[/italic] you responded [italic]with[/italic], made absolutely no contextual sense.

Ooh subtle shade from 171.

Apparently r172 has little understanding of the word "subtle."

The struggle, as a pureblood, is real.

Would that Jacinda could be cloned.

Let’s hope she cannot be cloned. Although the NYS Kathy Hochul comes close. She will lock you and vaxx you to death. If she could. CUNT.

Could you remind me of the excess death amount for New Zealand the last two years, R176? I seem to have forgotten and you seem such a well informed, kind and mentally well adjusted poster I am sure you won’t mind looking it up and sharing with the other posters on the thread.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

r178 Clapton's on point. And the Branch Covidian zombies want to crucify him for telling the truth about his experience.

r179 Bless your heart if you believe those fake statistics.

^ Fuck off, anti vaxxer fuckwit.

Eric Clapton's "mass formation hypnosis" should be Mass Formation Psychosis, a made-up meme from the world of anti-vaxxers. It's an attempt by them to label their opponents irrational. Just more pot-meet-kettle gaslighting from the lunatic fringe.

I wish Clapton would fall out of a fucking window.

Yes, r172; assuming r171 is who I suspect it is, score one for your side I guess?

Keep driving away the people who actually have experience taking care of COVID patients and you'll soon have another one of the trolls’ paradises you’ve all been working so hard to establish.

Clapton had a bad reaction to one type of vaccine. Very unfortunate but it happens. Instead of saying, “yeah nothing is 100% safe and it was my bad luck to react badly but the majority of people are and will be fine and it’s certainly a thousand times better than catching Covid”, he pivoted to “it hurt me, I won’t be satisfied until I ruin it for everyone. Even poor people who don’t have the resources that I have.”

[quote]Clapton had a bad reaction to one type of vaccine.

We only have his word to rely on. I'm skeptical of anything he says.

Fuck Clapton that xenophobic, racist motherfucker. Cranky old white guy syndrome.

Clapton's a narcissist--he assumes that everything that happens to him happens to everybody or it doesn't matter. Sure as hell isn't a doctor or a scientist or an expert on anything outside of guitar playing.

And for someone bitching about a vaccine reaction, he sure seems in better shape than people with long COVID.

Or dead.

"The Omicron death toll has now surpassed the height of deaths caused by the more severe Delta variant when the seven-day average peaked at 2,078 on Sept. 23 last year. An average of 2,200 people a day, mostly unvaccinated, are now dying due to Omicron."

^^^

The More You Know: Reuters is owned by "Thomson Reuters". Which in turn, is majority owned by Blackrock. Pfizer is also owned by... Blackrock. So when you see Reuters saying Pfizer is doing nothing wrong, and both are owned by the same people

I don't see anything on this thread- has it been brought up already?

"The musician continued on revealing that he suffers from 'peripheral neuropathy and should never have gone near the needle."

Clapton might remember his addiction to heroin. How about them needles?

According to the article at R191, BA.2 has nearly overtaken the original Omicron variant in Denmark in 2 weeks, but is not more transmissable? Am I understanding that correctly?

[quote]Keep driving away the people who actually have experience taking care of COVID patients

Dr. Suneel Dhand has experience taking care of COVID patients and hasn't necessarily agreed with everything that has been touted by the mainstream media. There are plenty of healthcare professionals in the same boat.

All in all, the common denominator amongst COVID hospitalizations regardless of vaccination status, in which COVID is indeed the primary cause for hospitalization, is having comorbidities, being of advanced age, obesity or all of the above.

I finally received the autopsy report of my (vaccinated) father's death. The underlying cause was COVID, the leading cause was ischemic cardiomyopathy. According to the report, there were signs of ongoing cardiac pathology for years; that he, stubbornly, told absolutely no one about.

Some more history about my father's health:

55+

Started smoking when he was 13 and was a pack a day chainsmoker for 30+ years (cigarettes and weed).

Alcoholic for as long as I can remember (thankfully he stopped drinking in 2012) which kept his blood sugar in the borderline/pre-diabetic range for years.

Occasional user of stimulants in his teens and 20s.

Traumatic brain injury from being nearly beaten to death over a disagreement with some guys a little over 10 years ago.

High sodium and fat diet.

Didn't go to the doctor regularly or seek preventative care.

Didn't even want to go to the ER when he was nearly beaten to death (he wasn't the type to seek medical attention).

Still got vaccinated because he didn't "handle flus well and didn't want to get sick."

-------

As devastating as his death was, this is the health profile of someone who would likely succumb to this virus. So, why don't we also focus more on healthy living and taking care of our bodies with diet and exercise because let's keep it real, it's not a bunch of triathletes and vegan yoga instructors dying from this. Just saying.

I'm angry he didn't keep up with preventative care and look after his heart, but what the hell are you going to do with grown-ass people? Can't worry myself about it now, it's done.

Nice try, R190 aka anti vaxx cunt.

Btw, you're blocked.

R190, Yo, dummy. Pfizer's a publicly owned company. Blackrock does own Pfizer stock, but it's 7.3 percent. It's not even the largest institutional shareholder. (Vanguard has 8.3 percent).

Meanwhile, the largest of institutional shareholder of Thomsen Reuters (also a public company) holds less than 2 percent. Blackrock isn't even among its top 10 institutional shareholders. So, no, Blackrock and Pfizer aren't telling some Reuters reporter what to write. (Not how it works anyway.)

But you're too stupid and gullible to have actually bothered to look any of this up.

R190's posting history mainly consists of posts like this:

[quote] The hundreds of athletes who have died from heart problems due to the Covid vaxx

FF this lunatic straight into hell.

I believe I may have posted this before, but specifically on weight the people most likely to survive COVID are not overweight, but are on the pudgy side of normal; like a BMI of 24.

They're calling the new variant "Stealth Omicron."

[quote]I believe I may have posted this before, but specifically on weight the people most likely to survive COVID are not overweight, but are on the pudgy side of normal; like a BMI of 24.

I'd have to lose about 42 lbs. to get down to a BMI of 24. I'm 60 yrs old but that would put me back to my high school weight.

Of course this is going to be covid-political, but it was likely their policy even before.

Yeah likelihood of surviving a transplant has always been part of the equation in determining who gets an organ transplant. If there were enough donor organs available to meet the need it would not be.

Why should an organ be wasted on a selfish anti vaxxer?

He can have my heart since donors are limited. I'm not particularly interested in being alive any longer, anyway. He has two kids and another one on the way. I have no children, spouse, or any legal dependents. My brother can have my dog.

Or am I not allowed to make that decision for myself even if that decision could potentially save someone else's life?

Apologies for the not specifically COVID related interruption.

I am sure that there are some countries that would allow that, not the US obviously since it is considered morally abhorrent here (and I tend to agree with that view,) but you could look into places like Saudi Arabia if you are serious.

I hope to wear what remains of my body out to a healthy old age, but should I die with anything worth using still in me, I am happy to know that I am a registered organ donor. I encourage anyone who hasn’t spent the five minutes to sign up to do so.

The Omicron COVID-19 variant can survive longer than earlier strains of the virus on plastic surfaces and human skin, new research by Japanese scientists has found.

The researchers concluded that Omicron’s high "environmental stability" - its ability to remain infectious - in particular might have helped it replace Delta as the dominant variant and spread more rapidly.

All variants were completely inactivated on skin after 15 seconds of exposure to alcohol-based hand sanitizers.

Well I guess I'm wearing my glasses forever- it prevents me from touching my eyes.

[quote]Why should an organ be wasted on a selfish [bold]anti vaxxer?[/bold]

As more data gets released, the case for retiring this overused and misapplied term gets stronger. A prime example is someone who has already recovered from the virus not wanting to get the vaccine because they've A) Already have an immune response to the whole virus, B) Are at higher risk for more adverse side effects from the vaccine, C) Natural immunity has been shown repeatedly by numerous studies, and now, even the CDC that it gives a more robust immune response than vaccination. So, someone in that category who already went through getting sick with the virus and survived isn't "anti-vaxx," they're pro-science and attentive to their own personal risk-benefit analysis.

I think people, for whatever reason, hear people talking about natural immunity, an established science in the realm of immunology for eons, and automatically assume people are encouraging you to purposely expose yourself to the virus as opposed to getting vaccinated. Not only is that batshit insane, but it is absolutely not the case. Natural immunity is just as important as vaccine-acquired immunity and needs to be considered when examining the bigger picture of where we are in this pandemic as well as properly calculating the reproductive number/R0 of the virus, in general, as time progresses and more people gain immunity through various means.

Are there people who are "anti-vaxx" regardless? Of course, but there are those, like myself who merely want nuance and open dialogue free of dogma and emotional outbursts. That accomplishes zero.

Here's the CDC study in question:

To put things into further "thinking person's" perspective, once again I remind you that there are poorer countries with populations who have yet to even receive a 1st dose.

If your dogma is so restrictive that you don't see the complete absurdity over wasting time trying to get jabs into the arms of natural immune people in developed nations with advanced healthcare systems, while simultaneously firing naturally immune healthcare professionals (a field that suffered staffing shortages way before the pandemic, especially nursing), as the virus moves through freely in these other countries which can easily become breeding grounds for the mutations/variants you claim to be so concerned about avoiding, you may want to consult with your priest for guidance, because you've not only lost the plot, but you've completely lost all sense and reason.

Infection with COVID doesn’t confer life-long immunity any more than one shot of J&J does. It’s not nothing, but it’s not much over the long term either. Getting COVID three times probably gives pretty durable protection though.

[quote]Infection with COVID doesn’t confer [bold]life-long immunity[/bold]

What data are you basing this stat on for a novel virus that has only been moving throughout the population for 2 years and a vaccine that has been out for a little over 13 months and already needed boosters within roughly the first 8?

Anti vaxxer = someone who refuses to get vaccinated for selfish and/or stupid reasons.

So please just fuck off with that anti vaxxer defending bullshit, R209.

R209, when I can predict exactly who you linked to before even looking, you might want to widen your sources of information to people who don't just tell you what you want to hear. He's not even a medical doctor. He's a nurse who uses the Dr. title like someone like Dr. Laura with her degree in physiology. One round with Covid certainly does not lead to lasting immunity and encouraging these assholes to not get vaccinated is going to cause this fucking thing to go on forever as they get infected over and over to create more variants.

Are you fucking stupid, R213? How about all the reinfections, dumbass? Additionally, the studies you are linking to do not even say what you are pretending they say. Get your stupid, antivax out of here and go to whatever moronic board there is that will buy your shit unquestioned.

FF the anti vaxxer scum and put them on ignore.

[quote] He's not even a medical doctor. He's a nurse who uses the Dr. title like someone like Dr. Laura with her degree in physiology.

He's considered a hero among the anti vaxx scum community. Which tells me pretty much everything I need to know about this old lying fuckwit.

[quote]Anti vaxxer = someone who refuses to get vaccinated [bold]for selfish and/or stupid reasons.[/bold]

And who, exactly, is charged with "ranking" the virtue and wisdom of each reason to determine its validity?

So, r215 you're taking the position that the CDC study that they posted on their own journal page is incorrect? Even though that study is corroborated by numerous others, the biggest being the infamous Israeli study?

Did you even read it?

Actually address the data from the CDC study or say less. Start here:

R171 are you an orphan, shut in that you don’t personally know people who have had COVID twice at this point?

One of my own sisters had it twice. (According to my mother she didn’t get vaccinated this past summer after all and was to ashamed to tell me - sigh)

This person currently calling themselves 171 is the disingenuous time-waster who was weighing in as "mao" a couple of threads ago, right? I'm going to block them and I encourage everyone to do so in order not to clog up a perfectly good thread with responses to their inane links and circular, half-baked verbiage.

[quote][R171] are you an orphan, shut in that you don’t personally know people who have had COVID twice at this point?

You're going by anecdotal evidence/data, then? Duly noted.

Also, are we no longer focusing on lowered rates of severe illness, hospitalization, and death, now? You're really wanting to zero in on re-infections and breakthrough infections? I've stated repeatedly that this virus is on track to endemicity and will continue to circulate through the population. So, bringing this up is a moot point. I have already conceded people will keep getting this. The argument is that illnesses will be milder and less frequent. Most certainly they won't disappear. Now, moving on...

[quote]One of my own sisters had it twice. (According to my mother she didn’t get vaccinated this past summer after all and was to ashamed to tell me - sigh)

And yet, she still, I assume, lives to tell the tale. Congratulations on your "not dead and naturally immune" sister, then? I'm not sure what the point of telling this anecdote is. Sorry.

[quote] I'm going to block them and I encourage everyone to do so in order not to clog up a perfectly good thread with [bold]responses to their inane links[/bold] and circular, half-baked verbiage.

I literally posted a study from the CDC and then someone talking about it in plain English; a study for which one of you has yet to offer any refutations.

I can wait.

Brazil's Bolsonaro's political guru, far-right conspiracy theorist, virus downplayer and anti vaxxer Olavo de Carvalho dies from, wait for it, Covid-19.

LOL.

shock.

Do I have to wipe down my groceries again FUCK

You wipe your ass, don't you?

No, R226. And you never did.

I did the first weeks of the pandemic, pissant R228.

When looking at the re-infection rate out of Washington State, a state that is really tracking and publicizing this information, 60% percent of re-infections were in the unvaccinated, 5% were hospitalized and .9% died. 78.9% of the population is at least partially vaccinated so the unvaxxed are about three times more likely to be re-infected. I'm tired tonight so not up to digging through and dis-aggregating the rates of death in the vaxxed and and unvaxxed re-infected, but if someone is up to it that would be awesome. I'd note that given that the baseline death rate was 1.2% without vaccinations, the death rate in the unvaccinated re-infected might actually be higher than from a first infection given the very, very low rate of death in the vaccinated in general.

I thought "not-Candance Owens" might be Mao also. The writing style is very distinctive.

Man, I'm relieved I live in a county with an over 80 percent vax rate. It makes things a little less hairy, though I am stuck wearing an N95 again

R171 really is kind of an idiot. You'd think somehow he'd missed that this fucking virus has been mutating at a rapid clip. Mutations interfere with immunity--natural and vaccine-given.

Someone in here stinks like Reddit.

As a long-time reader of this thread, it feels to me like there is no hope. The world is divided into regions. If 90% of one region or city is doing everything right - all vaccinations, sanitizing, hand-washing, N95 masking, social-distancing, etc. while at least 50% of the other regions are not- they're simply hibernating, waiting and wishing Covid to go away, then Covid will continue to mutate, get stronger, and cause misery even for regions that do everything right!!!?

This is like World War 3 with Humans VS. Covid. Now onward with "BAtshit-crazy 2" variant. Thank you anti-vaxxers. 🤬🤬🤬

Why does Israel have such high COVID rates when they’re all vaxxed? If they can’t get their rates down, what hope do the rest of us have?

R234 They are not all vaxxed. Far from it. They were simply the country to get the most people vaccinated the quickest when the vaccines were first made available but in terms of number of people in the population that are vaccinated they have slipped down the charts so to speak.

Why is the US and the UK still having so many deaths - that I don't understand so I put it down to lots of people still have not been jabbed.

The best protection is vaccination plus infection (whether you got Covid, then got the vaccine, or got the vaccine, then got Covid). After that, you've got super-immunity.

I keep thinking about how if it hadn't been for people like the Trumpanzees and Bolsanaros of this world, people would be fighting to get the vaccine, rather than fighting the vaccine. It fucking pisses me off that there are zero consequences for these people.

What comes after Omicron...

[quote]Only about a quarter of the U.S. population is fully vaccinated and boosted, according to the CDC. The more people who are unvaccinated, the more end up in the hospital. The more cases, the more opportunity for dangerous new variants.

[quote]"That's why it's like a 'Choose Your Own Adventure,' " Galiatsatos said. "And I am choosing the kind that puts us in a better frame of mind that we reach people and get more people vaccinated and can end this pandemic and learn to adapt to this."

The unvaccinated need to start being severely punished for what they are doing and will continue to do to the world. Everyone keeps talking about endemicity. Endemicity is a best case scenario that doesn't happen with this many unvaccinated people still fucking around because the variants they create can restart the whole thing in the blink of an eye. Fucking selfish assholes.

Absolutely right R236! I tell my wife she’s a hottie with the super immunity all the time.

Vis-a-vis Israel, just anecdotally, I know people in the country who were vaxxed and got Omicron recently and no one got particularly sick. At this point I think Israel is just like “whatever” with the unvaxxed and my understanding is that the whole country is open.

Also, just anecdotally every almost every vaxxed person I know who has gotten Omicron has a kid at home; either their own or they live with family who has a kid in the house. It’s why I’ve decided viral load of infection matters. Kids are little virus spewing factories.

I was feeling that despair in January of 2020, a virus that will naturally infect 60% of the population, killing 1-2% of people and then reinfecting people every year or so and killing off another 1-2% that was the original math. But now we have fabulous vaccines, more fabulous vaccines coming and a protease inhibitor treatment that works!!!!

I know the willfully unvaxxed are terrible people, but given the animal reservoirs I don’t think we get around variants. Just think of the unvaxxed as ferrets.

[quote]When looking at the re-infection rate out of Washington State, a state that is really tracking and publicizing this information, 60% percent of re-infections were in the unvaccinated, 5% were hospitalized and .9% died.

ElderLez, I'm fairly certain that I specifically asked you, and others, to address the data in the recent CDC study that I posted, on this matter. And yet, here you are bringing up a completely different study, from [bold]one[/bold] state. The CDC study included data from two states; California and New York. They also had a much larger sample size. That's Statistics 101.

Washington State study sample size = 264,520 people.

CDC Study = 18% of the entire U.S population (roughly 59.4 million people)

[quote]To examine the impact of primary COVID-19 vaccination and previous SARS-CoV-2 infection on COVID-19 incidence and hospitalization rates, statewide testing, surveillance, and COVID-19 immunization data from California and New York [bold](which account for 18% of the U.S. population)[/bold] were analyzed.

The Israeli study included people from the country's MHS database of 2.5 million people which accounts for 26% of Israel's population.

In a study published on nih.gov on 10/28/2021 titled "Equivalency of Protection From Natural Immunity in COVID-19 Recovered Versus Fully Vaccinated Persons: A Systematic Review and Pooled Analysis" (Muacevic and Adler), the study authors reviewed 9 other clinical studies, pooling data from 7 of those studies, and conducted a meta-analysis to conclude the following:

[quote]Overall, our comprehensive systematic review identified nine clinical studies of various designs, of which seven could be included in a pooled analysis. From a review of these studies, we conclude that there is currently [bold]no statistical advantage to vaccination in the COVID-naive compared to natural immunity in the COVID-recovered. Vaccination in the COVID-recovered may provide some incremental protective benefit, but the total size of this benefit is marginal.[/bold] Explicitly, [bold]COVID-naïve individuals should not seek infection to bypass vaccination, as the risks of infection far exceed the low risks associated with vaccination.[/bold] However, until further data is available, [bold]unvaccinated COVID-recovered individuals should be considered to have at least equal protection to their vaccinated COVID-naïve counterparts.[/bold] The COVID-recovered represent a unique population segment with distinct risk/benefit considerations and a narrower therapeutic window than their COVID-naïve counterparts. National policy should reflect the need for clinical equipoise and restraint in vaccinating these individuals by mandate.

Moreover, the WA state study that you posted does not adjust for age or comorbidities. The CDC study that I posted, however, does adjust for these attributes. Also, at r164, I posted a video by Vinay Prasad, who actually [italic]is[/italic] an MD, since apparently those are the only healthcare professionals whose input on this topic, according to some of you, holds any validity. By all means, refer to him as being "anti-vaxx," also when he has not only repeatedly encouraged vaccination, but is vaccinated himself.

CONT'D: I am not arguing, nor have I ever argued, that being unvaccinated and having zero immunity (no prior infection) provides better protection than being vaccinated with no prior infection. Not only is there absolutely no data to back up that claim, it makes no scientific sense, in general, and doesn't hold up to historical data of how vaccines work.

I am, however, arguing that people who have recovered from the virus have acquired an immune response that is equal to, and in some cases superior to, those who have only been vaccinated with no prior infection. There is numerous data that backs up that claim, and I've provided it on numerous occasions. Thus, people in [bold]that specific category[/bold] should not have to be vaccinated when taking public health policy into consideration and any employer or school mandates, nor do we deserve to be branded with the Puritanical scarlet letter U that so many of you insist we be.

This is not new science or a new concept. Prior infection has always been considered when advising for certain vaccines. An example of this is the Varicella vaccine and those who have already had chickenpox. EL, you "rebutted" that fact (also on the CDC's site) in another thread when I brought it up before by bringing up Shingles which not only has a completely different vaccine (Shingrex), but is only recommended for 55+ (so there is no one-size fits all rule). Bringing up shingles also did not refute the facts that I presented. It was a way to disingenuously redirect the argument by cherry-picking barely relevant facts to avoid having to properly refute my claim. And I think you know this, because you do it quite often.

All in all, no one with sense is suggesting that being unvaccinated without prior infection confers better protection than being vaccinated without prior infection. That's stupid. That's not the argument I am making. Feel free to address the findings specifically in the studies that I actually present when I present them and when you have the time. Thank you.

R171, sorry for breaking it to you, but nobody gives a shit about your crap as many regular posters in here seem to have put you on ignore by now. Which is what I will do now, too, by the way.

So bye, obnoxious anti vaxxer fuckwit.

Yes, r242. I'm fully aware that I've essentially stepped into the lyin's den by having the audacity to express these views on DL, which is, by far the strongest representational sampling on the internet of the opinions most people share globally on this matter. Definitely.

R243, guess what, fuckwit? YOUR anti vaxx views are NOT "the opinions most people share globally on this matter". Sorry for breaking this to you, too.

I thought you ignored me? Do you typically say "bye" to people and then continue to engage, anyway? Seems counter-productive to your stated goal, but carry on, I suppose.

Put that fucker on ignore and move on everyone. He is just here to wind us up, and is either a bot or a bored teenaged troll.

Your method, 171, is to pack a post with distractions and irrelevancies, all the while ignoring new circumstances, and argue some minor dispute as if it were a major dissent. You are in effect a troll. And now, adieu.

[quote]Shingles which not only has a completely different vaccine (Shingrex), but is only recommended for 55+

Minor self-correction, here. It's spelled "Shingrix" and the recommendation is for those 50+, not 55+.

r247 I have been arguing that natural immunity confers equal, if not more, robust a protection as naive vaccine-acquired immunity. I then proceeded to back up that claim with data from reputable sources (i.e. CDC and NIH).

My subsequent argument is that more a nuanced and individualized approach for this specific cohort should be implemented with regards to vaccination recommendations and/or requirements and that stigma for unvaccinated convalescent individuals should be avoided. I then provided input from multiple healthcare professionals who agree with this approach.

That is not a "distraction." That is you disliking a position that actually is also supported by the science you claim to follow. Take care.

Put “who” on ignore.

The sophist troll?

For anyone who is interested in the CDC study, it is pre-Omicron and and almost entirely pre-booster. And (of course) it doesn't say what she-who-must-not-be-named says its says. From May to June 2021 re-infections were higher than breakthroughs. From July to November 2021 (when large numbers of people needed boosters, but couldn't get them yet) breakthroughs were higher than re-infections. Infections were lowest in, wait for it, people who had been vaccinated and also had had COVID-19. And the authors recommend that everyone be be vaccinated. I do think the US should do what Europe is doing and count an infection as one shot with three shots being the floor for fully vaccinated.

That study is very interesting and shouldn't be tainted by association just because it was linked by a troll.

FWIW the Washington State data I linked to is recent as of January 2022.

"Israel’s vaccine advisory panel has recommended a fourth dose of a Covid-19 shot for all adults, a world first, as the country battles a surge in infections driven by the Omicron coronavirus variant.

The move follows research showing fourth doses doubled protection against symptomatic Covid-19 and increased protection against severe illness by three to five times, compared with three doses."

Ron DeSantis Rushes To Defend His Donors As His Constituents Die

[quote]From May to June 2021 re-infections were higher than breakthroughs.

For context:

[quote]During the week beginning [bold]May 30, 2021,[/bold] compared with COVID-19 case rates among unvaccinated persons [bold]without[/bold] a previous COVID-19 diagnosis, COVID-19 case rates were 19.9-fold (California) and 18.4-fold (New York) lower among vaccinated persons [bold]without[/bold] a previous diagnosis; 7.2-fold (California) and 9.9-fold lower (New York) among [bold]unvaccinated persons with a previous COVID-19 diagnosis[/bold]; and 9.6-fold (California) and 8.5-fold lower (New York) among vaccinated persons with a previous COVID-19 diagnosis. During the same period, compared with hospitalization rates among unvaccinated persons without a previous COVID-19 diagnosis, hospitalization rates in California followed a similar pattern. These relationships changed after the SARS-CoV-2 Delta variant became predominant (i.e., accounted for >50% of sequenced isolates) in late June and July.

Conclusion: Fully-vaccinated naive individuals were "winning" for approx. 30 days (5/30/21 - 6/30/21) before Delta became the dominant strain.

[quote]From July to November 2021 (when large numbers of people needed boosters, but couldn't get them yet) breakthroughs were higher than re-infections.

For context:

[quote]By the week beginning October 3, compared with COVID-19 cases rates among unvaccinated persons [bold]without a previous COVID-19 diagnosis[/bold], case rates among vaccinated persons [bold]without a previous COVID-19 diagnosis[/bold] were 6.2-fold (California) and 4.5-fold (New York) lower; rates were substantially lower among both groups with previous COVID-19 diagnoses, including [bold]29.0-fold (California) and 14.7-fold lower (New York) among unvaccinated persons with a previous diagnosis, and 32.5-fold (California) and 19.8-fold lower (New York) among vaccinated persons with a previous diagnosis of COVID-19.[/bold] During the same period, compared with hospitalization rates among unvaccinated persons without a previous COVID-19 diagnosis, hospitalization rates in California followed a similar pattern.

Conclusion:

[quote]These results demonstrate that vaccination protects against COVID-19 and related hospitalization, [bold]and that surviving a previous infection protects against a reinfection and related hospitalization.[/bold] Importantly, infection-derived protection was higher after the Delta variant became predominant, a time when vaccine-induced immunity for many persons declined because of immune evasion and immunologic waning (2,5,6). Similar cohort data accounting for booster doses needs to be assessed, as new variants, including Omicron, circulate.

That has been, and still is, the claim I've made on this topic. Repeatedly. It is not incorrect.

[quote]Infections were lowest in, wait for it, people who had been vaccinated and also had had COVID-19.

If you look at the chart from the study, starting at around August 22 - November 1st, while this is initially correct for the earlier months cited, the risk rate is differential is barely noticeable and there consistent overlap.

[quote]Although the epidemiology of COVID-19 might change with the emergence of new variants, [bold]vaccination remains the safest strategy to prevent SARS-CoV-2 infections and associated complications; all eligible persons should be up to date with COVID-19 vaccination. Additional recommendations for vaccine doses might be warranted in the future as the virus and immunity levels change.[/bold]

I agree that anyone who has zero immunity to the virus should get vaccinated. I disagree that [bold]literally every person[/bold] who has infection-acquired immunity absolutely must get vaccinated and believe that a more nuanced and individualized approached should be implemented for that group. The CDC study authors don't necessarily disagree with that suggestion by stating that "additional recommendations for vaccine doses might be warranted in the future as the virus and immunity levels change." A "consult with your healthcare provider" recommendation for the naturally immune would qualify as such a recommendation.

[quote]I do think the US should do what Europe is doing and count an infection as one shot with three shots being the floor for fully vaccinated.

I actually agree with the "one shot" consideration taken by the EU, but I think boosters should be assessed on a case-by-case basis due to heterogeneity in population behaviors, immune response, and overall demographic differences that can affect one's immune system. Two doses of one of the mRNAs specifically and three of the vectors, to me, would be a more reasonable "floor" for fully-vaccinated for those with no prior infection. For those with prior infection, I think a "talk with our healthcare provider" individualized approach makes the most sense.

We're going to be getting these shots every few months for the rest of our lives or until they completely stop working, aren't we?

[quote]the risk rate is differential is barely noticeable and there consistent overlap.

*The risk rate differential

*There's consistent overlap

Brianna Keilar rolls the tape on Fox’s Covid-19 vaccine misinformation

I forgot to put actual numbers to your post at r230 in my response, which is also something that you neglected to do. Again out of 264,520 people, reinfection/breakthrough occurred in 1.7% of people. Those numbers are as follows.

[quote]Since September 1, 2021 in Washington state: • A total of 4,404 people had reinfection. • 223 (5.1%) people with a reported reinfection were hospitalized. • 22 (0.9%) people with a reported reinfection died. • 2,640 (59.9%) of people with a reinfection were unvaccinated

And more numbers and context from the WA state study:

[quote]Among 223 people with a reinfection who were hospitalized: • 99 (44.4%) were fully vaccinated • 15 (6.7%) were partially vaccinated • 109 (48.9%) were unvaccinated

[quote]Because we only have reported cases, it is likely that some of the people with a primary infection are actually people with a reinfection, making interpretation of these comparisons challenging. • We have no information on the health status of any of these individuals and do not know about co-morbidity that may increase risk of hospitalization or re-hospitalization. • There is a large proportion of hospitalized cases among those with a primary infection or reinfection who were unvaccinated. • More detailed data are needed to understand and account for factors that contribute to severity of disease experienced in people with primary infections and reinfections. This information is needed to understand the immune protection afforded by prior infection, vaccination and the combination of prior infection and vaccination.

And I am just seeing they did age-adjust, so I'll self-correct. Out of the 223 who were hospitalized with a reinfection the age distribution is as follows:

0-17: 3 (1.3%)

18-49: 80 (35.8%)

50-64: 47 (21.1%)

65+: 93 (41.7%)

[quote]FWIW the Washington State data I linked to is recent as of January 2022.

It was published on 1/6/2022, but is including data collected from 9/1/2021 - 12/26/21. So, it's not including much Omicron data, either.

It's also for a shorter period of time (3 months) compared to the CDC study (6 months).

NTIMES article today on the factors that make it more likely to develop long Covid. I don't have the patience to cut the text into pieces so that this website will allow it all to be posted here (I tried). You can usually search the author's name on google and find the article such that it is not behind the paywall. "New Research Hints at 4 Factors That May Increase Chances of Long Covid" by Pam Belluck.

[quote]As of [bold]December 20, 2021,[/bold] Omicron has been detected in most states and territories and is rapidly increasing the proportion of COVID-19 cases it is causing.

I'm done, for now. You're welcome.

^Here is the meat and potatoes part of that article above:

"One of the four factors researchers identified is the level of coronavirus RNA in the blood early in the infection, an indicator of viral load. Another is the presence of certain autoantibodies — antibodies that mistakenly attack tissues in the body as they do in conditions like lupus and rheumatoid arthritis. A third factor is the reactivation of Epstein-Barr virus, a virus that infects most people, often when they are young, and then usually becomes dormant.

The final factor is having Type 2 diabetes, although the researchers and other experts said that in studies involving larger numbers of patients, it might turn out that diabetes is only one of several medical conditions that increase the risk of long Covid."

More on long covid:

[quote]I'm done, for now.

Oh, no need to limit that for time.

How long until Covid just starts coming after us with tiny baseball bats?

Why does Miss Thang R171 keep making the same combative post over and over and over? We heard you. Your posts have become TL;DR and your combative self righteous approach is not helpful here or anywhere.

R171 What is it that you don't get about your study pre-dating Omicron? Omicron changes the math because prior infection doesn't confer the same level of immunity as it did with other variants?

Look, you're not very bright and you don't notice basic details, so quit trying to play scientist. You lack the critical thinking skills for it.

Again, studies of COVID that pre-date Omicron don't address the current situation. COVID MUTATES.

Got it, dummy?

Also, it's established that vaccines give longer lasting protection than infection. The latest studies are showing that the antibodies post-booster are still strong 4 months later.

Le sigh:

“Stealth” is way too Mary! for that variant that just chooses to live outside the Omicron norms.

It’s slightly more transmissible and it costs more $ to determine which variant it is, but using a word like stealth is ridiculous.

At what level of transmissability and death should we start killing the unvaccinated like they kill the animals when they are the source of the spread? If not with this pandemic, then the next one or when ebola goes airborne or whenever another virus comes around with, say, a 40% or 60% death rate and a high transmissability number, or when Russia or China decide to release smallpox back into the now unprotected world? Where do we draw the fucking line with these uneducated pieces of shit who won't get vaccinated? If people had acted like this with smallpox, we'd all be dead now. Fuckers. Society would be better off in a multitude of ways if they were all dead.

Lol technically all the variants are "stealth" since the PCR test isn’t a diagnostic tool. At what point do people finally wake up and realize they are being duped?

Beautiful design though. Really love those colours!

I’m not sure what you’re LOLing about when you clearly have no idea what S-gene target failure is or how it made BA.1 identifiable on some commonly used PCR tests and why that won’t work with BA.2.

r272 Dude...wtf. And wtf to the person who WW that shit? I swear there are two separate cults that have formed in society since this pandemic began. I consider myself to be "alt-middle" because I appreciate nuance, but after reading through many of these responses, either many of you are too far gone and quite literally more devoted to your "tribe" than scientific data (even if it disagrees with/counters your position) or I'm in the Twilight Zone.

[quote]it's established that vaccines give longer lasting protection than infection.

Dear god. I posted actual robust CDC data that refutes this. It's also just establish science (in immunology) that infection confers equal protection to vaccination. What exactly do you think a vaccine is doing? It's literally only stimulating your body's natural immune response to an antigen to "mimic viral infection." Why do you think vaccine side-effects typically mimic the symptoms of the pathogen you're being vaccinated against? Holy shit, lol.

The CDC data shows that literally after about 30-35 days, being unvaccinated with a previous COVID-19 diagnosis conferred more protection than being vaccinated without a previous COVID-19 diagnosis. The benefit between being vaccinated with prior COVID diagnosis and without was, indeed, marginal and in certain weeks, straight-up overlapped, on one occasion (in the NY data) being unvaccinated and having previous COVID diagnosis conferred slightly more/virtually equal protection than both vaccinated with and without prior diagnosis (the higher the hazard ratio number the better):

[quote]Aug 1–7 New York Cases hazard ratio: Vaccinated no previous COVID-19 diagnosis, 5.3 (5.2–5.5) unvaccinated previous COVID-19 diagnosis 19.2 (15.9–22.6) , Vaccinated with previous COVID-19 diagnosis 18.3 (14.7–21.9), Unvaccinated no previous COVID-19 diagnosis 3.6 (3.0–4.2)

And the fact that you only go after me for posting data [bold]from the CDC[/bold] which consisted of 59.4 million people, from two states with the highest population (New York and California) and 6 months worth of data because "it was collected before Omicron" when ElderLez not only did the same damn thing, but also posted a study with a smaller sample size, from only one state, that only aggregated 3 months of data. I understand that many you kiss her ring her because of her occupation, but come on. What dimension are you people in? Wow. Just...wow. Now I see why pro-vaccine doctors are still called "anti-vaxx" when they go against the mainstream narrative on anything. I, and others, can outright say we agree that the naive unvaccinated should get vaccinated, and still be called anti-vaxx for "deviating from the dogma." Tribalism and science don't mix babes. Snap the hell out of it, already.

This is why I like Dr. Zubin. He's one of the few physicians with a platform that's making sense of all the bullshit touted on both the "COVIDIANS and the COVIDIOTS" side. I've got "vaccine absolutists" calling me anti-vaxx on one side of my family, and others who have completely lost it and legit believe 5G is causing COVID. FTS.

Have a good crazy, hive-minded, evening.

I'm glad R171 is busy wasting his time writing endless posts here so he doesn't spread his anti-vaxxer bullshit anywhere that might buy it.

r275 You're misreading some of the data. Furthermore, COVID infection confers protection only against those viral elements that are preserved from variant to variant. The mrna vaccines are broader in the immune response they stimulate. Let's say that a person had been infected with the delta variant of COVID. Omicron has several different mutations that have altered the spike protein configuration. The person who survived a delta infection is WELL-PROTECTED......against another infection by DELTA. Not so much with omicron. Repeated studies have shown that many people who have been infected with COVID have been reinfected again, sometimes even with the same variant. Omicron in particular seems to have the ability to reinfect the same person who already had that variant.

Hi R171 / R275: [bold]TL;DR

R277 is the Covid Doom Troll.

So tired of the Reinfection Troll.

[quote]Read the room for fuck's sake.

Oh, believe me, r267. And I'm getting the impression that the venom toward mentioning that infection-acquired immunity can be equally as protective as vaccination has people thinking that it's bad messaging due to the unfortunate fact that some idiots will, indeed, actively try to get themselves infected to bypass vaccination even though I'm not advocating for that at all and think it reasonable for the naive to get vaccinated.

Personally, I'm not a fan of modifying public policy to accommodate the small percentage of the human population that is stupid enough to risk removing themselves out of the gene pool. Though, I suppose, I can understand the approach for liability reasons. Ever read the warning labels on products? Someone had to try it before it was warned against to protect some clown from suing. Like the lady who sued McDonald's for driving with a cup of hot coffee in her lap that the establishment "neglected to inform her" was hot.

Reminds me of that stand-up bit from Bill Engvall about "stupid people" signs, honestly. As far as I'm concerned, give those people their sign and keep it moving. But not before taking your own, first, of course.

[quote][R275] You're misreading some of the data.

Point to the specific data from the recent CDC study that you believe I am misreading, please.

[quote]Furthermore, COVID infection confers protection only against those viral elements that are preserved from variant to variant. The mrna vaccines are broader in the immune response they stimulate. Let's say that a person had been infected with the delta variant of COVID. Omicron has several different mutations that have altered the spike protein configuration. The person who survived a delta infection is WELL-PROTECTED......against another infection by DELTA. Not so much with omicron.

What you are describing is called "original antigenic sin" and it can also occur as a result of vaccination and has occurred with a couple of vaccines that have been on the market for decades (e.g. HPV vaccine). It is not something that is guaranteed to occur as a result of natural infection with this specific virus.

Most of the mutations of the virus occur on the receptor-binding domain of the spike (S) protein. All of the vaccines currently available were built on the spike protein, and [bold]onlyl[/bold] the spike protein of the wild type strain. Thus, the immune response elicited from the current vaccines are only against the spike protein. Being infected with the virus elicits an immune response to [bold]all of the virus's proteins[/bold] (spike, envelope, membrane, nucleocapsid, various non-structural proteins). Please see the MD's post in this thread at r137 explaining how you can differentiate vaccine-acquired immunity from infection-acquired immunity by using specific antibody serology tests for that purpose.

[quote]Repeated studies have shown that many people who have been infected with COVID have been reinfected again, sometimes even with the same variant. Omicron in particular seems to have the ability to reinfect the same person who already had that variant.

The same is true for the vaccinated, but no one is denying that reinfection and breakthroughs can and will occur. The goal has been, and still is, to prevent severe illness. Due to the fact that the vaccines and natural infection results in circulating antibodies in the bloodstream and we're dealing with a respiratory virus, you will have cases of infections that continue but they are mild because the virus is, typically, staying in the upper respiratory system where the immune response isn't targeted by vaccination or prior infection. Once viremia takes place, that's usually what leads to that more systemic infection which can cause further disease progression and severity. But when you have good memory B and T cell immunity, they kick into gear before viremia can progress to severe illness.

The more likely scenario is that people of advanced age and who are immunocompromised or have other comorbidities that dampen their immune response will be more likely to be susceptible to viremia regardless of prior infection or vaccination. It is these people who should be the focus of vaccines boosters. Most of the data is still holding strong that the vaccines and prior infection confer a strong B and T cell response which is what one measures when determining lifelong immunity.

Have there been any new variants this week?

Another self-correction I'd like to add (or rather clarification) is that the data systems used in the CDC study accounted for 18% of the U.S population, but the exact number of people included in the study was 32,550,796.

Just trying to be thorough.

[quote]Another self-correction I'd like to add

Oh please don't bother on our account.

[quote]Ever read the warning labels on products? Someone had to try it before it was warned against to protect some clown from suing. Like the lady who sued McDonald's for driving with a cup of hot coffee in her lap that the establishment "neglected to inform her" was hot.

You mean this lady, r281/r171, etc? She wasn't driving, she was a passenger - and the car was parked at the time. If you misinterpreted that case so poorly, no wonder you have difficulty understanding the complexities of Covid.

[quote]Liebeck endured third-degree burns over 16 percent of her body, including her inner thighs and genitals—the skin was burned away to the layers of muscle and fatty tissue. She had to be hospitalized for eight days, and she required skin grafts and other treatment. Her recovery lasted two years.

[quote]Liebeck offered to settle the case for $20,000, but the company refused. McDonald’s offered Liebeck only $800—which did not even cover her medical expenses. When the case went to trial, the jurors saw graphic photos of Liebeck’s burns. They heard experts testify about how hot coffee should be and that McDonald’s coffee was 30 to 40 degrees hotter than coffee served by other companies. The jury learned that 700 other people—including children—had been burned before, yet the company did not change its policy of keeping coffee at between 180 and 190 degrees. The company knew its coffee was causing serious burns, but it decided that, with billions of cups served annually, this number of burns was not significant.

Liebeck was awarded $160,000 in compensatory damages, settled for somewhere a little north of $480,000 in punitive damages, and remember, she had only asked for $20, 000.

You are one obstinate and ill-informed simpleton, r281.

Hi, ElderLez! Stargazer here.

Hi Stargazer! Nice to see you.

I was [italic]so hoping[/italic] someone would bring up the actual facts of the "McDonald's Hot Coffee Lawsuit (1992)" case that I referenced in r281. So thank you r286. :)

Why? Because it proves another point I wanted to touch on regarding how information can be twisted by the media and "tribes of thought" developed in the wake.

I knew about the actual facts of that case and how it had been misinterpreted/misrepresented by the media. I, admittedly, didn't learn about the details until roughly 5 years ago. But for decades, I only heard that story retold by 3rd parties as "the dumb lady who sued McDonald's because she drove with hot coffee in her lap and got burned." That didn't make sense to me. So, I finally looked up the story and further details, and thanks to the magic of the internet, the truth was eventually revealed. That case was widely misinterpreted due, in large part, to how the media presented the story.

The coffee was determined to be far too hot for human consumption by the DOH and that's why she won the case. But do you see how the media can influence the public's opinion on an issue while distorting its facts and/or tailoring said facts to cater to the biases of their audience for ratings? Since the advent of social media, this practice has gotten significantly worse. But I digress.

Anyway, another bonus point is that you were more willing to "fact-check" and scour the interwebs to find nuance by presenting more of the details (and subsequently a clearer perspective and understanding) in a 30 year old case than to actually address the data that I presented from the recent CDC study for an objectively more pressing matter. And, frankly, that says far more about your reasoning skills than mine; not to mention priorities.

Thanks for playing.

[quote]I was so hoping someone would bring up the actual facts of the "McDonald's Hot Coffee Lawsuit (1992)" case that I referenced in [R281].

SURE ya were, r281. I didn't need to " 'fact-check' and scour the interwebs" to find the truth about that case. Unlike you, I never bought into "the dumb lady who sued McDonald's" nonsense, and I spent all of a few seconds to find a link with pictures to make it easier for you to understand. Another minute or two to cut and paste.

Now you go on ignore. You are not worthy of anyone's time.

On God, that is the truth. I have no reason to front about that. Why? I clearly have no fans, here. In my defense, I did initially buy into that "dumb lady who spilled a hot McDonald's coffee on her lap" nonsense considering that the incident happened when I was 6 and I first heard about it when I was like 8. By all means, congratulate yourself that you were able to "get me" on a 3 decades old non-issue brought up in a throwaway comment that has fuck-all to do with the current situation. Because that's definitely a life accomplishment worthy of the history books. Bye, Fellatio.

[quote] I clearly have no fans

Literally the only words out of the thousands you have regurgitated on this thread with which I actually concur.

"Endemic"

Yikes!

No joy on my 3,000 prediction coming true as Omicron hits the unvaccinated rural areas of the country.

I understand the anger towards the unvaxxed, but I refuse to waste energy wishing them dead at this point. They are literally killing and disabling themselves. I want nothing to do with their death cult. And being emotionally attached to their outcomes is a form of co-dependency I’ve decided to opt out of insofar as they are not a family member.

I think it is hilarious that our dedicated Covid Troll's only recent post, not about Covid, is the assertion that he enjoys smooth jazz (*ew!), specifically "After Hours" by Ronny Jordan. It must be his theme while shitting the right wing talking points.

Denmark will end virus restrictions next week and reclassify Covid-19 as a disease that no longer poses a threat to society, Prime Minister Mette Frederiksen announced.

The country's decision comes even as infections reach a record high, dramatically pushing forward an idea that's emerged recently in Europe — that it's time to start thinking about Covid as endemic rather than a pandemic.

The COVID troll is a she, specifically a 5’7” black, 117 pound woman with a gay husband and asthma who was was about six years old in or about 1995.

I am in awe of you ElderLez.

Thanks ElderLez. You're a very informative gal, and while I don't always agree with you, I appreciate you.

The Covid Troll is a transwoo man? You don't say!

R296 OMG just when I thought I've seen every level of absurdity, denialism, and magical thinking. Good luck trying to legislate COVID out of existence, Danes!

[quote]More than 3,500 American deaths from Covid reported today

Thankfully, they're just mild deaths.

The world would be a very boring and much stupider place if we all agreed with each other all of the time.

Personally, I’ve found one of the most difficult but useful lessons of adulthood to be that a real friend will tell you when you have spinach in your teeth, while a user will only ever tell you you look marvelous. Anyone truly invested in your well being will challenge you if they think you are making a mistake, whether it’s directly or passive-aggressively or did you ever consider-style.

[quote]I guess I'd just like to know if they've actually figured out if the booster is acting more like a usual booster does and conferring longer term protection?

Yesterday, a study published in the New England Journal of Medicine suggested that Moderna Covid-19 shots remain durable against the Omicron variant, but that antibody protection wanes and was six times lower six months after getting boosted.

Moderna Chief Medical Officer Dr. Paul Burton to CNN:

“What we see by six months is that those levels begin to fall. And if you project that out and you make the conclusion that they will continue to fall, we know that probably by the autumn of this coming year, in 2022, that those levels will be down to an area where people may not have protection."

^My 6 months will be up in mid-March, and I'm wondering about the availablility of a 4th shot. Moderna all the way.

r303 - So true, ElderLez. By the way, it's snowing down south.

Anti-Masker Caught On Video Harassing Children For Wearing Masks

Dr Topol, Dr Wachter, and Dr Jha agree it's nowhere near endemic yet.

" it's time to start thinking about Covid as endemic rather than a pandemic."

There's a difference between thinking of Covid as endemic and it being endemic.

[quote] 117 pound

pounds?

Kilos, more like.

[quote]The COVID troll is a she, specifically a 5’7” black, 117 pound woman [bold]with a gay husband[/bold] and asthma [bold]who was was about six years old in or about 1995.[/bold]

So instead of addressing the data from the CDC that you condescendingly, and sloppily, dismissed as "less valid" due to its data being collected before Omicron, after laughably posting less robust data that was also collected before Omicron, and giving a better supported counter-argument to my position that the naturally immune should not have a one size fits all rule for vaccination, and are not nearly in the same threat category as the naive unvaccinated, you've now resorted to telling untruths (bolded portions) and making this personal like a child.

Your continued evasion of certain questions that I present to you regarding the data does not go unnoticed. For example, you still have yet to answer the question I posed at r88. You continue on "leading the fray" in this thread with the tired mantra of "burn the anti-vaxx troll" as a way to holistically dismiss and sully the points that I'm raising and the data I'm using to support them as opposed to explaining why my interpretation of the data doesn't support my position and where this specific misinterpretation exists.

You are clearly not interested in having an adult discussion about this matter with anyone who does not share your ideologies, and frankly, as a scientist (who I believe is actually employed by one of the research facilities that was contracted by one of the pharmaceutical companies to develop their COVID vaccine, if I recall correctly) that's incredibly sad.

R311 [bold]TL;DR. What part don't you understand? You post endless novellas without saying anything new. Enough is enough.

Then fucking ignore me. What sense does that make to keep posting about being tired of a poster when there exist such a simple solution to your problem?

Clearly, you're not [italic]that[/italic] damn tired of me.

R312, just block this time-waster.

Canadian Prime Minister Trudeau in isolation after Covid-19 exposure

From CNN’s Paula Newton

Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau announced Thursday that he is isolation after an exposure to Covid-19.

“Last night, I learned that I have been exposed to COVID-19. My rapid test result was negative. I am following @OttawaHealth rules and isolating for five days. I feel fine and will be working from home. Stay safe, everyone – and please get vaccinated,” Trudeau tweeted.

Trudeau is fully vaccinated and boosted. He has not reported having contracted Covid-19 during the pandemic, but his wife, Sophie Grégoire Trudeau, tested positive for the virus in March 2020.

Trudeau did not disclose how he was exposed. He met in person with several members of his cabinet Wednesday. He also has three school-age children.

Israeli health ministry expands eligibility for fourth Covid-19 vaccine dose

From CNN's Hadas Gold in Jerusalem

Israel’s health ministry has officially approved a fourth dose of the Covid-19 vaccine to people over the age of 18 with underlying conditions as well as to caregivers looking after people at high risk and those who have jobs with a high risk of exposure to the virus.

The fourth dose will be administered after at least four months have passed after administration of the third shot.

The ministry did not immediately specify which occupations are considered high risk.

The announcement adopts a more conservative position than the recommendation of Israel’s Covid-19 advisory panel earlier this week. On Tuesday, the panel advised that a fourth vaccine dose should be administered to anyone aged 18 years and above, provided more than five months had passed since their third dose.

“The decision is based on encouraging preliminary results of a study of the fourth dose,” the health ministry said Thursday.

“It was administrated to people 60 years of age and above. Two-fold increase in protection and 3-5 fold increase in the level of protection against severe illness in comparison to the third dose have been demonstrated. The decision also considers the spread of COVID-19, number of hospitalizations, and very high probability of infection," the health ministry explained.

I agree with r314. Just block me. It's not complicated. You're being ridiculous, now.

171 is now posting screaming novellas at herself because everyone else is using the block button. Later cunt.

[quote]171 is now posting screaming novellas at herself

And r318 doesn't know how the internet works.

The disagreement in Israel between the government and the researchers over what the fourth shot research results mean is very interesting.

[quote]I think it is hilarious that our dedicated Covid Troll's only recent post, not about Covid, is the assertion that he enjoys smooth jazz

That's not my only recent post. That's the only recent post that you, personally, can see because apparently if you haven't participated in a thread that an ignored poster participated in, those posts don't show up under the ignored poster's posts.

My most recent post is a "how to" on saving deleted threads immediately after they've been deleted.

And for the billionth time, I'm not trolling, I'm (attempting) to have a discussion/debate with people who I disagree with on a specific topic.

Much like "anti-vaxx" that term is overused and misapplied ad nauseum on here. DL is the only site where I see people screaming "troll" left and right on people. It's very weird, here sometimes.

Scrolling through the various posts on these COVID threads confirms my belief that as a civilization....

Come to the "alt-middle" side r322 where you can be called an "anti-vaxx Trumper" and a "big pharma shill" within the same day depending on who you're talking to. Because this is the world we live in now, apparently. It's a real hoot. :)

[quote]You are clearly not interested in having an adult discussion

You're right. You've totally nailed us. We are not worthy.

But since we are such a bunch of petulant babies, why engage us? This is fun for you?

[quote]You're right. You've totally nailed us. We are not worthy.

I was specifically addressing ElderLez in that post r324. To be fair, while she does so in a dismissive and at times passive-aggressive way, she is, indeed, like one of the only people in these threads who actually addresses any presented data and also provides her own.

The rest of you mainly either cheerlead for her on cue or just make childish ad hominem attacks to anyone "blaspheming" your religion.

You're like slightly more advanced versions of the seagulls from Finding Nemo in that your vocabulary consists of two words as opposed to just the one; "anti-vaxx" and "troll."

And so, I re-ask my question.

But since we are such a bunch of petulant babies, why engage us? This is fun for you?

But yes, if you must know, I do enjoy having debates/discussions on topics in science, medicine, and research. Obviously, with the pandemic, that's been a hot topic as of late.

It is, unfortunately, difficult to have discussions with a large portion of the human population, however, depending on where their "tribal alignment" resides.

Have you tried discussing the pandemic and this virus with someone who is convinced it's being caused by 5G technology and the vaccines have nanobots for tracking in them? That's just a good time, right there. -_-

[quote] There's a difference between thinking of Covid as endemic and it being endemic.

And governments & the media need to get over their ignorance that endemic somehow equals "no biggie." You know what else was endemic for hundreds of years? Fucking smallpox.

Someone needs to drop this article from airplanes over Denmark.

[quote]It certainly isn't informative for us.

Hold up. Is that what most of you you're expecting to see only in these threads; brand new information on the virus? I'm aware I'm not providing brand new information. I've merely been using existing data to support my position that natural infection should count as being "naturally vaccinated" from a public health policy standpoint and that being fully vaccinated, on average, will provide effective protection against severe disease so there's no need for most people to be panicked about future mutations if they're fully vaccinated.

Was the initial goal of starting these threads from the beginning only to keep people on DL updated on the pandemic and not debate certain aspects of public health policy implementation also? Because if so, that...explains quite a bit actually. :-/

Tucker Nods as Deranged Guest Demands COVID Vaccines Be Pulled

R330, I don't know her.

Wow, that Tucker bloke looks inbred.

I've heard of him before but I've never taken a look at him.

That Berenson guy looks inbred, too. Or is he under the influence?

I blocked two posters and half the posts on this thread vanished.

let me guess R334, that cunt 171 disappeared

From your mouth to the universe's ears r335.

I think the denial about vaccine failure says a lot about the public’s preference for delusion over the truth.

The vaccines aren't "failing" r337, the public messaging is failing. They're still showing to protect against severe disease and death with Omicron.

Mass fear and paranoia has broken a lot of people's minds to be convinced that even that function isn't enough, now even though that has been the goal of the vaccines from jump. It's hard to watch.

That's a poster who needs a red label.

Hahaha, the anti vaxx cunt @ R337 is back.

R337 and I think you denying your idiocy says a lot about your mental state of mind.

[quote]I think the denial about vaccine failure says a lot about the public’s preference for delusion over the truth.

I think you have a very strange definition of "failure."

Elderlez what do you think of Denmark’s decision to just bail on Covid restrictions? Is this like Sweden’s herd immunity plan from the beginning of the pandemic?

My niece just came back from Denmark and felt they were being very responsible so this is a bit of a head scratcher to me.

BA2 appears to be surging in Denmark right now:

Wow R342 a booster makes even Sinovac look good! It is really extraordinary how many lives the vaccines are saving. We all forget that the original goal set by the FDA for emergency use authorization of the vaccines was a 50% reduction in severity. (I was starving, but now I have plenty of food, but let me whine that my steak is a little overcooked)

R433 As a lay person (and there are actual scientists, physicians and nurses on this thread who I'd love to hear chime in) I wouldn't make the same decision that Denmark is making. I'd wait to learn more about long COVID in the vaccinated. What I've seen so far is promising, but not a slam dunk and it would be great to see long COVID/PASC broken out by severity and permanence. My SIL for instance still coughs every morning, but that's it, whereas I have a friend whose lungs were so severely damaged that he had to go out on disability and probably will never work again (both infected pre-vaccines) Theoretically they both have PASC, but it's a world of practical difference. Is PASC in the vaccinated as severe as PASC in the unvaccinated when it does occur? And then even if I wanted to do what Denmark is doing I'd wait until April when there's more Paxlovid to go around and people can engage in more outdoor activities to ease into the re-opening.

R328/Sylvia, you are so right! Bubonic plague is endemic to this day in Peru, Congo and Madagascar.

r342 "Our World in Data is supported by grants from the Quadrature Climate Foundation, [bold]the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation[/bold], and a grant from the German entrepreneur, businesswoman and philanthropist Susanne Klatten."

Bless your heart if you believe these "statistics." LOL

NYC COVID hospitalization by vaccination status, does not distinguish between boosted or not - unvaxxed 36 times more likely to be hospitalized.

[quote] Sylvia, you are so right! Bubonic plague is endemic to this day in Peru, Congo and Madagascar.

And the US Southwest!

That's horrifying - yikes!

Anyone gotten their fourth shot yet?

25k new cases in Norway. Nobody here cares anymore. Most people are at least double vaxxed. Many have also gotten their booster. Omicron is the variant now. It only causes mild symptoms. Few hospitalizations and deaths. Most politicians here are actually talking about opening up, because even if people test positive it won't be a big deal.

[quote]Anyone gotten their fourth shot yet?

At the risk of rousing the thread-loon, no. But I will the moment it is recommended for me.

If you block the thread loon, like many of us already have, then there's no risk.

I was going to get my 4th shot this week but I canceled when I read it wasn't doing much for Omicron and that the newer blends were being eared towards it and were "coming soon." But now I worry that I have no protection. (My booster was the end of August.)

I feel like I'm being bombarded with so much information that winds up null and void within a couple days. In many ways, it feels like the early days.

States hitting all time-high adult COVID hospitalization numbers this week - Arkansas, West Virginia, Utah and North Carolina.

Thanks R275. I appreciate your common sense, moderate, measured tone. There's just no convincing these pearl-clutching, MSNBC-believing, Fauci-masterbating queens.

The rage and anger is just bizarre.

Which is PROOF that the vaccines and the vaccine mandates, have been a colossal failure.

Also worth noting, the death rate percentage is STILL 0.4 percent.

^The people dying are overwhelmingly the unvaccinated. How can you be so goddamned stupid?

"The fact that 99% of the deaths are in the unvaccinated is proof positive that the vaccines don't work!"

You have to be a special kind of stupid to mistake the troll's blather for a "common sense, moderate, measured tone" and careful conclusions based on current statistics for "pearl-clutching."

Well to be fair to the unvaccinated the vaccines were kind of a success for them before Omicron since their odds of catching COVID and dying were dramatically decreased by being surrounded by a firewall of vaccinated people unlikely to give it to them. Just imagine my dog giving himself credit for not being hit by a car while he strains against the leash to run out to catch a leaf in the middle of the road.

Vaccination decreases the likelihood of catching Omicron. But tons of vaccinated people are still getting it and can spread it, which is a bummer for the vaccinated, but a crisis for the unvaccinated. The leash just broke for them and they've caught the leaf, but here comes the SUV. So yeah for the unvaccinated vaccination is kind of a failure at the moment.

Wow! Given that the baseline death rate is 1.2 % and two thirds of people in the US are vaccinated and the death rate for vaccinated people is close to zero Omicron isn't looking that mild at .4%. Maybe the people who are saying it isn't milder, just faster, are right and I've been wrong.

As you know, ElderLez, I'm here to verify that it isn't that mild.

I still love ya.

~stargazer

Indeed some people have very bad times of it vaccinated or not. Love ya back and glad you are posting.

Senator pushes conspiracy about athletes' responses to Covid vaccine

I'm sure Sen. Johnson and his whole family have eschewed the vaccine and are taking their chances with Vitamin D.

I, for one, am disappointed that I have yet to transform into a Terminator.

"Omicron, the highly contagious coronavirus variant sweeping across the country, is driving the daily American death toll higher than during last fall’s delta wave, with deaths likely to keep rising for days or even weeks."

THE COVID DOOM TROLL IS ALSO BANNED POST DEX, A KLAN LEADER

So what is it that Republicans gain by killing their base? A few rubles?

From another thread...

A question for someone in the US. What is the recommended waiting time between the second Pfizer dose a booster in the US? TIA

Why is it a dog in R371's cartoon? Did they not want the wrath of the MAGAts or is there some other meaning to the dog? Or did someone just photoshop an old cartoon? Should have at least given the dog a goatee, three chins, and some wraparound Raybans.

R372, it was 6 months but I think they dropped it down to 5 months, 4 for the more vulnerable.

Thanks R373.

USA daily deaths are spiking on worldometers. Between 2700 and 3400 in the last 4 days.

[quote]4 for the more vulnerable.

In the US, those who are moderately to severely immunocompromised get a primary series of three, with the third dose given 28 days after the second for both Moderna and Pfizer.

The fourth is considered the booster and that's five months after the third in the primary series.

Meh, I try r357, lol.

[quote]The rage and anger is just bizarre.

That's a common response from those paralyzed with fear, sadly. They tend to lash out when someone starts poking holes in the foundation upon which their fear is built. But it is what it is.

I stand by my position, which is, indeed, backed by science; being unvaccinated while having infection-acquired (natural) immunity confers more protection than being vaccinated without prior infection. While being vaccinated with natural immunity has the potential to confer "super immunity," the overall numbers that show that display a marginal difference. Thus, those with natural immunity should be assessed on a case-by-case basis with regards to vaccine recommendations and natural infection needs to be counted as being "naturally vaccinated" when implementing public health policy.

The first two mRNA doses are still showing to provide protection from severe illness and death. As the virus moves through the population, the number of unvaccinated who have no prior infection will reduce significantly, and they will then be placed in the category of also having robust protection from severe illness and disease. So this, "pandemic of the unvaccinated" narrative call only go so far as that population gets whittled away via recovery or death.

R377

Tonight, on my way to pick up curbside groceries I couldn't help, but see all the unmasked assholes in the restaurant/bar windows. I had a very strong urge to honk and flip them all the bird-parade style.

R379, just take a detour and drive your car into the restaurant next time.

Well, r378, thanks to the wonders of science, the headlights on my vehicle have an automatic setting that responds to "natural light" and determines whether they need to be activated on a "case-by-case basis." :)

^ As do your reading glasses.😂

R171, you know you're a long winded blowhard, yet you can't stop yourself. What do you suppose is wrong with you? Besides so much?

Don't engage, r383.

I just want to say that I absolutely loathe Eric Topel. I hate seeing his face and tweets. He lives for the worst case scenarios.

Such an irrelevant question, r383. What does this have to do with my position and what, exactly, are you hoping to accomplish by asking it?

Either address my, repeatedly, stated position and the data I presented to support it or hit that ignore button and keep it moving.

R385, he literally posts data from real world studies. It's called reality, darlin'. I suppose that would look like doomsday to someone living in fucking fantasyland, though.

Another question for someone in the US about the Pfizer (or Moderna) booster shots. Yes, I know it's late.

Does Pfizer seek regulatory approval for use of the vaccine as a booster or does the FDA(?) determine whether boosters are needed based on its own assessment of real world experience (e.g. Israel or UK booster programs).

I have tried to find the answer but haven't had any luck. TIA

In the EU, it's the EMA (European Medicines Agency) that determines whether boosters are necessary or not. Their advice is advisory only, though, EU member states can pretty much do what they want to do. Tbf, I don't know about FDA's approval policy, but the EMA is pretty strict and rather cautious when it comes to approving new substances. Pharma firms need to hand in data on a regular basis as well as on any request, otherwise the approval is gone pronto. Again, each EU member state can approve substances on their own anyway - that's what for example Hungary did by approving the use of Sputnik V. Sputnik V vaccinations are not admitted in other EU countries though as the EMA didn't approve the Sputnik vaccine due to problems with receiving the requested data. So if you're vaxxed with Sputnik V, you don't get an EU-wide accepted proof of vaccination.

I received my fourth shot a couple weeks ago. My third shot was in August and since I receive infusions for Crohn's disease that suppress my immune system, I thought I better go for it. My cousin, who is a big-deal doc at Vanderbilt, claims that Pfizer is close to debuting an Omicron-targeting vaccine and said I could possibly wait for that but Dr. Patel on MSNBC advised not waiting. Anyway, I had fewer side-effects than I had with my other shots.

^ What brand did you get?

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Just for R385:

[quote]her cop husband now 'faces internal probe'

Pics please.

Typical Long Island trash. It’s always them or Florida making headlines.

DeVuono = Ginzo trash.

Can anyone explain the passing accusation against Gov. Hochul at the end of R392?

Hello fellow PWC/R390. I was really worried about whether the infusions would stop me from developing adequate antibody levels, but the entyvio I am on doesn't seem to have inhibited my immune response to the vaccines at all. I waited eight months to get my third shot as a result. Of course the other biologics aren't as restricted to the gut AND people with Crohn's were excluded from the vaccine clinical trials so there is much unknown.

I am assuming that that is a cut off sentence rather than an accusation R397. I hope they have the list of the people with the false registrations and go after them all.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

That graph at R393 is insane. WTF is wrong with Denmark? If you look at the lines, knowing that hospitalizations and deaths are lagging indicators. They are about to kill off a whole bunch of their population. The only line not echoing the case line is the ICU admissions but the hospitalization and deaths lines are 100% matching the rise in cases, just delayed as they have always been. Wonder if the lower ICU admissions rates are due to the lack of ICU units available. Can't admit people to full units. They just get to die in a regular hospital room which would explain the hospitalization and death rates mimicking the exponential rise in cases.

Dumb fuckers.

The most significant big media propaganda was a July 1 opinion article in the New York Times: “It’s Time for the F.D.A. to Fully Approve the mRNA Vaccines” by the biggest shill for approval Dr. Eric Topol of Scripps Research who has served on multiple FDA advisory committees.

Much more was not revealed about Topol and his objectivity. In 2016, Topol received $207 million from NIH in addition to other grants of $35 million and $17 million from NIH. In August 2020 he publicly criticized FDA’s emergency use authorization of hydroxychloroquine. He has had financial involvement in six companies, including Walgreens and Quest Diagnostics.

Interestingly, in 2020 Topol revealed his “liberal” political position when he was big media’s go-to guy for months for “authoritative” medical objections to Trump’s program to rapidly produce COVID vaccines. His argument was that, if it is fast – that is, a crash program – it is suspect. In September, Topol led a campaign accusing FDA head Stephen Hahn of being a tool of Trump in the push for a vaccine, and calling upon him to resign.

Topol is pure “establishment.” Like Fauci, he is a physician that the public should not trust.

You are so fucking stupid, R401. Climb out of Trump's ass for a while, the stench and lack of air is killing your brain.

R401 are you actually criticizing Dr, Topol for demanding that the mRNA (and other) vaccines undergo phase III clinical trials for safety and efficacy before being released for use? You would have preferred that they be released after only phase II dose-ranging studies, like Sputnik in Russia? And I am confused; you are both angry at Dr. Topol for demanding that drugs be properly tested before being released (too slow!)? And then you are mad at him for opining that they should be approved after being properly tested (too fast!)? How do you hold such mutually incompatible thoughts in your head without your brain exploding? I think I lost 10 IQ points just reading your post

And why do you think the fact that Dr. Topol was judged worthy of millions of dollars in research funding by multiple panels of his scientific peers causes him to be suspect? Do you care to explain your thought process on that? Have you decided that Meryl Streep is a terrible actress because she's won too many Oscars?

It's so hard to keep up with the nutters. First, Topol can't be trusted because he's urging caution with the vaccines. Then, he can't be trusted because he's touting the vaccines. He's only pushing the vaccines because he's invested in Walgreens, except that was also true when he was saying we have to wait for safety data. But I guess if you're crazy (or you're playing to the crazy base), you don't have to make sense.

Yeeeah. I'm just going to leave this here...

Why do people even post shit the way R405 did? No one is going to watch your idiotic video, antivax enabler piece of shit.

r406 Is exactly the type of person being discussed in the video. Are you being facetious? Because the comedic timing is impeccable.

I’ve not commented here, but being a scientist, have followed the threads.

I don’t block on DL, but I have to say that you, R171 /R405, are a prolific troll. You seem to take great pleasure in inciting chaos and bullying other posters.

You tend to take snippets of information and thread them with quantities of misinformation. Your long diatribes combatting an otherwise smooth thread are tiresome.

Congrats on earning a first block from a DLer of over a decade.

Ivermectin: Does anyone know how this horse paste made its way into the treatment realm? Seems so random. Came out of nowhere. Was it a bad joke that just took hold of the right wingers?

Did anyone get the free N95 masks? Do we need to show ID or vax card etc? What's the procedure?

Apparently ivermectin can kill some viruses indeed. The problem is, you need HUNGE amounts of it in your system to have virucidal effects - huge amounts being rampant and messing up your system. So even IF ivermectin worked against coronavirus, you'd ultimately die from those ivermectin overdoses damaging your organs.

You'd think that when even the pharma company producing ivermectin strongly advises against using their product for the treatment of Covid-19, people would finally refrain from popping that stuff . . . but hey, we're talking about idiots here. As far as I am concerned, they might as well die from their own stupidity.

*HUGE, not HUNG(E)

Think of the block button as the vaxx against the troll. When his socks/sympathizers show up, hit it again to get your booster.

I've loved you good dolls since the first virus thread. <3 DL has rarely been wrong in its overall intention with this virus.

R409, here's a history of this (conspiracy) theory:

[quote]I’ve not commented here,

Yes you did, r408. You're r17. And you've commented on several of these coronavirus threads, actually. You typically announce that you're a scientist (physician, specifically, according to your responses in the other threads) by following up with the usual "troll" and "misinformation" buzzwords without actually addressing the information that you claim is inaccurate and/or being represented and offering a correction with equally supporting data.

[italic]That's[/italic] actually the behavior of a troll. There are plenty of physicians who agree with my stated position and I have shown examples of but a few who happen to have platforms on social media to share their perspectives. You, and no one else here, has proven me wrong. You have, however, proven that I irritate you. Which, frankly, sounds like a personal problem to me and is not really my concern.

Have a good week.

^*misrepresented

[quote]Ivermectin: Does anyone know how this horse paste made its way into the treatment realm?

1. It's not just "horse paste." There is a human formulation that was developed by Japanese microbiologist Dr. Satoshi Omura, for which he won the Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine in 2015. It is a legitimate medication that has saved billions of lives globally, mostly in underdeveloped nations, from parasitic infections, which is what it's FDA approved for.

2. The idea for a tri-therapy of the drug was first brought up as a suggestion but Australian gastroenterologist Dr. Thomas Borody around early March 2020. The US then got wind of the suggested treatment protocol and that's when Dr. Pierre Kory, along with other physicians in the FLCCC began giving it to patients and were, apparently, noticing a reduction in mortality of their patients.

3. On August 13, 2021, Tokyo Medical Association Chairman Haruo Ozaki then called for the drug to be used in Japan based upon the data of its use in other countries. It is not endorsed by the Japanese government, but it is also not discouraged.

4. Despite much uncertainty surrounding the data of its efficacy, the Peruvian government included ivermectin in the national therapeutic guidelines for COVID-19 in Peru.

Dr. Thomas Borody has, since, been derided as promoting medical misinformation by detractors for his position on Ivermectin's potential to treat COVID.

I’ve been feeling upper respiratory discomfort/hollowness/congestion for at least two months.. I’d chalked it up to another charming addition to my Long Covid heart palpitations/chest discomfort/nausea. I can only guess now that I contracted omicron at some point but even after having had its wicked way with me I was still feeling after effects. Over the past few days I’m feeling noticeably better, though. For the record I was tested eight or nine times in December (in The Netherlands and Germany) and only twice this month (at home tests here in NYC). We’ll see what next month brings. And to think I planned on going to Denmark in April. I might be rethinking that.

The proposition was to use Ivermectin as a recombinant therapy with other drugs to create a "treatment trifecta" of sorts. It was never suggested to only be used alone, and frankly, I personally would work if it was the only prescribed drug in a treatment plan for COVID and haven't seen any data to support its use in that manner. But there are drugs that when used in combination with others tend to help efficacy and lead to a more positive outcome. The claim is that Ivermectin is the "missing piece of the puzzle" for this positive outcome to occur.

*^recombinate

Thank you so much for signing your posts as "171"!

If narcissism were a food, the amount that one must have to sincerely believe some stranger on a globally accessible, public, online, discussion forum cares whether or not they're reading their responses could solve the world hunger crisis.

What about the narcissism of someone who just keeps posting endlessly long posts in a place where everyone has made it quite clear they want him to go away, R171/R423? You might want to go read some conspiracy articles about the use of mirrors. Maybe Joe Rogan or a Dr. Nurse has something to say about those.

r171 feels capable of commenting on narcissism in others.

[quote]What about the narcissism of someone who just keeps posting endlessly long posts in a place where [bold]everyone[/bold] has made it quite clear they want him to go away, [R171]/[R423]?

Everyone absolutely has not said that. It's a discussion board. You make a claim about the topic, and then people respond to your claim. Some people may disagree with your claim, explain why, and provide evidence to support their positions. I've done this, with you specifically, numerous times in this thread, and instead of refuting the data I'm using to support my position, you just become reactionary, hostile and dismissive.

Example: You replied to me at r215, and I responded at r219 and r220 with a question. You did not respond and just came through later with a disturbing reply at r272 that offered nothing to this thread but more hostility.

Those types of responses don't necessarily mean you're correct. It means that you're a bad communicator. Once again, not one of you has refuted my position with your own and supporting data for your position. In fact, you, specifically have made outright wrong claims about natural immunity not carrying over to future variants and, apparently don't understand epitope conservation across the variants, nor care about learning [italic]why[/italic] you're wrong.

Like I said, that's actually troll behavior. And this is the last time I'm going to entertain it because it does nothing to move the conversation forward.

Good day to you, also.

[quote]And this is the last time I'm going to entertain it because it does nothing to move the conversation forward.

R171 continuing to be self-deluded.

Yawn.

Please stop feeding the troll. They will go away soon enough if we all refuse to engage with them.

Here's an article on the progress of trials on the non-profit COVID vaccines.

“These patients have never been in hospital and did not have an acute severe illness when they had their COVID-19 infection. Some of them have been experiencing their symptoms for a year after contracting COVID-19."

[quote]I just want to say that I absolutely loathe Eric Topel. I hate seeing his face and tweets. He lives for the worst case scenarios.

He consistently posts about how well the vaccines are working.

R432, the poster you quoted is a vaccine skeptic who thinks that praising the vaccines is tantamount to pushing a worst-case scenario—the "best-case scenario," of course, being natural immunity (or total denialism).

I don't think R385 is a troll R433. That's a long-time poster on there threads who is vaccinated. I don't understand the sentiment as directed to Dr. Topol though. Now R385 if you'd said Eric Feigl-Ding I'd be right there with you. He's a needlessly nervous nelly for sure.

these thread, not their threads.

I'M CUMMING!

Fox News Silent After Guest Dies Of Covid

Put it in a sock r436.

R432, that's what he's paid to do.

There are many studies showing Ivermectin works, when used with other drugs. Here's one...

Almost all early ivermectin results have failed to be replicated in later studies. The one you're quoting above is from March to May 2020. (Two years ago!) That was a limited cohort study and the difference in mortality was small 13% vs 24%. Hard to verify that proper controls were even done to differentiate the groups.

We’re becoming a country of hypochondriacs and paranoiacs. “I have a cold. It must be Covid!”

We have become a country with a well-founded apprehension of a life threatening disease. And a constantly developing understanding of how to avoid and/or mitigate that disease.

There as studies around the world evaluating whether Ivermectin is a useful treatment for Covid. Here's one:

[quote] Ivermectin’s potential to treat COVID gets a serious look in Duke University study

[quote] Doctors at Duke University are leading a national study to test whether three drugs will effectively treat COVID-19, including one that has generated controversy for more than a year.

[quote] The Duke study, launched last summer, is the kind of comprehensive assessment of ivermectin’s ability to combat COVID-19 that has been missing up to now, said Dr. Adrian Hernandez, one of the study’s leaders

[quote] “There were some early studies that showed that it could potentially be helpful with COVID-19, but they were not large enough to be definitive,” Hernandez said in an interview. “So we want to know either way, is it potentially beneficial or not.” Hernandez said it’s especially important to answer that question because so many people, including some doctors, are trying ivermectin despite warnings against it.

[quote] “We should understand if there are any benefits,” he said. “And if not, we should be able to report that back out to the public clearly and note what shouldn’t be done.”

[quote] Hernandez said researchers may have the data they need to release their results within a month or so.

Other recent news about Ivermectin studies from Google News:

[quote] Study in Brazil on ivermectin as a COVID-19 prevention is flawed, experts say

[quote] Ivermectin shows 'antiviral effect' against COVID, Japanese company says. (The company claims it was effective for treating COVID, but did not provide any details. So, ongoing study?)

Ivermectin studies have obviously been a shit show, at least until now.

Reuters had to correct an Ivermectin headline yesterday –after it had already spread like wildfire through the right-wing nut-o-sphere.

Pissing on a petri dish filled with Covid will also have an anti-viral effect in a lab. In your body, not so much. But, antivaxxers, go for it. Please post your films of pissing on yourselves and your families far and wide.

It is so strange that they latched on to dewormer. Of all the quackery. Literally shitting out the linings of their intestines to own the libs

r444 Did you know that the chairman and former Chief Executive Officer (CEO) of international news agency and “fact checker” Reuters is also a top investor and board member of Pfizer?

R447, did you know that the view of the world is much more clear if you pull your head all the way out of your ass? If anyone offers you Kool-Aid, don't drink it, no matter how much you want to.

I'm going to FF R439 simply for drawing an implicit equivalence between "doubting ivermectin" and "being in Big Pharma's pocket," let alone promoting flawed and outdated research.

"natural immunity"

R438 Too big for a sock.

Twitter thread about Atlantic article "The Anti-vaccine Right Brought Human Sacrifice to America:"

[quote]In a nutshell, the author is looking at how the anti-vaxx right -- particularly AFTER vaccines became widely available -- have a lot of similarities with societies that engaged in ritual human sacrifice. Face screaming in fear For example,

Thoughts??

R453 They shouldn't cover the wilfully unvaccinated.

R452, I thought that was a well written article. I thought the concept ridiculous, and then I remembered the Texas senator (or house member) who said that grandparents are willing to sacrifice themselves so their grandkids can go out to eat and shop. This was pre-vaccine Covid times, maybe summer 2020.

[quote]"The Anti-vaccine Right Brought Human Sacrifice to America"

No, the 2nd Amendment absolutists already did (but they're basically the same people). I remember Garry Wills in an angry essay after Sandy Hook basically saying conservatives worship Moloch.

That is referenced in the article, R456.

Trump's Advisors Make Him Stop Promoting Vaccines Fearing Backlash From His Base

Yes by all means it is important to ensure the rotting persimmon does NOT do the only sane thing he has ever done in his entire fucking life.

American Exceptionalism:

From R460's link...

[quote]Omicron: The U.S. has a far higher Covid death rate than other rich nations. 2 years into the pandemic, The U.S. has yet to rein-in the soaring death rate, a sobering fact to bear as the country charts its way through the next pandemic phase

This is incorrect. We are not one country. The rich part of the country is doing as well or better than other rich nations. It's the poor nation that exists, almost invisibly, within the larger rich nation that isn't doing so well. Much of that is, of course, their own fault for falling for a conman and his GQP death cult's lunacy but this has been set up since Reagan. Cutting education, killing the middle class, killing manufacturing jobs, allowing rampant mental illness, and the rise of the religious right ushered in by Reagan and his evil cabal made these people. Reagan, et al, got their shining city on a hill. It's filled with billionaires and corporations whose sole purpose of existing is to shit on the non-rich.

Nice try at deflection, R461. We all know the REAL "part of the country" that is dying from COVID is the GOP-loving, FOX-watching anti-vax crowd.

Is the current surge in hate-farming trolls on DL related to Russia's other trolling operation on the Ukraine border?

Yes! We are so exceptionally...dead and dying.

They're one and the same, R462.

^"Much of that is, of course, their own fault..." It's ALL their own fault, mouth-breathing, fat, stupid morons. It's like the lemmings committing mass suicide. No sympathy from me, whatsoever. They can all go fuck themselves.

I had concerns about the vaccine, but then I looked at the people in my life who opposed vaccinations - 2 high school dropouts, a woman who gave a quarter million to televangelists, someone who thought cancer stages went up to 10 so a 4 is not bad, right? - and I knew the vax was safe.

You linked to naturalnews.com? Some asshole selling supplements from his basement in Kansas? Troll better.

Go Covid go!

New York Magazine article re why so many more Americans are dying of Covid now than at any other time.

"On Monday, the Financial Times published a staggeringly good, graphics-heavy digest of this phenomenon and some of the most likely explanations for it, namely low vaccine coverage and slow uptake of boosters."

In other words, the death rate is almost entirely self-inflicted. MAGA idiots are, basically, committing suicide. Why isn't anyone concerned that our fellow citizens are just so STUPID?

[quote]Why isn't anyone concerned that our fellow citizens are just so STUPID?

Shhhh! Because they're DYING.

great compilation video of CDC, Fauci and other actors saying on camera the vaccine was intended to stop the spread!

R473 You mean the vaccine was created to stop people from getting infected? HOLY SHIT what else are they hiding from us?

I think r473 and his pals are just riling us up for fun. Nobody can be that dumb in 2022

[quote]Nobody can be that dumb in 2022

I'm afraid the 350,000 or so Americans who have died of covid since a free and freely available vaccine was introduced would suggest otherwise.

Americans are also great big fat persons.

Anything which causes a big fat dent in the Repugnican electorate is A-OK with me.

'Enormous': Secret Service reveals scope of Covid-19 fraud

How on earth did that guy (linked @ R478) get the job of being a spokesman??!!

Pretty much, r478. He doesn't have dynamic in his toolbox.

^r479

Hello. I had my booster on Dec 05. Is there any research done that states how long the booster is good for? TY.

^I think the consensus seems to be about 6 months.

Probably three months against infection, R482, but there's every chance that you're highly protected against hospitalization and death for a long time to come (years, perhaps).

Thank you 483, 484.

[quote]We all know the REAL "part of the country" that is dying from COVID is the GOP-loving, FOX-watching anti-vax crowd.

It's mostly Black and Latino people dying. White people, by comparison, are still more likely, proportionate to their overall population, to get this vaccine than Black and Latino Americans.

Thus, vaccine mandates are more likely to have a disproportionate negative affect on those groups.

They knew after that Tuskegee bullshit and the ongoing narrative we're being oppressed by a racist government we'd be the most likely to be hesitant. The same thing happened with the polio vaccine.

The mainstream narrative is that this "anti-vaxx movement" is mostly White nationalists is a very sneaky and gross way to hide the fact that the main one's hesitant are POC. Now, that narrative has a portion of the population indirectly calling for segregation from, and in more extreme cases, death and imprisonment for, a group comprised of mostly POC.

Awkward...

I thought the booster only really protected for 10 weeks.

Please show me that I am wrong, I beg you!

"Among those who received three Pfizer doses, vaccine effectiveness (against symptomatic infection) was 70% about a week after the booster but dropped to 45% after 10 weeks. At the same time, those who received an initial two-dose series of the Pfizer vaccine and then a Moderna booster seemed to have 75% effectiveness up to 9 weeks."

Grrrrreat. i got my booster on Halloween.

Protection against severe illness and hospitalization extends beyond that, though.

1) Wow has this thread been invaded by trolls this week.

2) The disconnect between the level of protection the booster provides against infection vs. severe illness is what is driving the controversy in Israel over fourth shots.

3) By race/ethnicity both Asians (by a huge margin) and Latinos are more likely to be vaccinated than non-Hispanic white people. While black people are less likely to be vaccinated than white people the difference is much smaller than the difference between Democrats and Republicans and is partially explained by the lower average age of black people given that older people are more likely to be vaccinated.

More on Vitamin D and protection against Covid. I've been taking 4000 IUs since about 3/19/20, myself.

Elderlez, there is also a Black cultural bias against the vaccine, due to the Tuskagee Study.

I understand the Tuskegee-connection reluctance, except for the *everybody* needs the vaccine part.

[quote]While black people are less likely to be vaccinated than white people the difference is much smaller than [bold]the difference between Democrats and Republicans[/bold]

Pause.

Where are you getting that data from because it's not in the link you posted. Also, where are they issuing "political alignment questionnaires" prior to vaccination and why? One would think the more important questions to ask would be a list of medications, allergies, and cardiac health history, etc.

[quote]I understand the Tuskegee-connection reluctance, [bold]except for the *everybody* needs the vaccine part.[/bold]

If they were capable of harming human beings based upon their race for their own gain, it stands to reason that the same group isn't against harming human beings, in general, for their own gain. In other words, they proved themselves untrustworthy to not just Black people with the Tuskegee experiment, but they proved themselves untrustworthy to human beings.

The same was done with Aktion T4 in Nazi Germany. The million dollar question is 'has humanity changed for [bold]the better[/bold] since those crimes against humanity were committed?' How have world governments and leaders proven to their citizens that they can be trusted to collectively look out for our best interests?

When you look at the extremely broken for-profit healthcare system in the US, for example, and how we treat those at a significant socioeconomic disadvantage...umm, is it no wonder some may have difficulty answering that question?

R493, so you've been overdosing for two years now. Your liver is fucked by now -- but hey, if someone on the internet says it works despite there being any real evidence, let's do it!!

r497 There are different recommended daily intake levels of vitamin D based upon age, sex, even your geographic location (i.e. sun exposure levels).

That said, the upper intake maximum for an adult 65+ is 4,000 IUs. So, r493 isn't necessarily overdosing. Although, if they're not being directed by a healthcare provider to take that much, they should consider doing so; typically after having a serum OH D lab test done to determine the needed levels, specifically. Otherwise, yes, fatty liver can become a problem.

I've been taking high dose vitamin D for over a decade (Crohn's!) and my liver values are fine so I don't think its as straightforward as that.

I'm a white lady so I don't want to speak for black people. I think a lot of the difference would disappear if we normalized rates by age R494.

As for Tuskegee, I think it is important to remember that it was a natural history study, not an experimental study the way people normally understand that term. The problem was that the participants were not properly consented because they were not told they that they had syphilis and then, when the cure for syphilis was discovered, they were DENIED THE TREATMENT. The horror of Tuskegee was the withholding of life saving medication that was given to white people. While I am sympathetic to the idea that Tuskegee engendered an understandable lack of trust in the medical community, the messaging around it insofar as it tries to portray it as a legitimate reason for black people not to get the vaccine is a continuation of the atrocity that was Tuskegee.

And yep 6% is less than 32%

PS While the above article focuses on kids, the first paragraph includes the adult gap.

[quote]This KFF COVID-19 Vaccine Monitor was designed and analyzed by public opinion researchers at the Kaiser Family Foundation (KFF). The survey was conducted January 11-23, 2022, among a nationally representative [bold]random digit dial telephone sample[/bold] of 1,536 adults ages 18 and older (including interviews from 327 Hispanic adults and 303 non-Hispanic Black adults), living in the United States, including Alaska and Hawaii (note: persons without a telephone could not be included in the random selection process). Phone numbers used for this study were randomly generated from cell phone and landline sampling frames, with an overlapping frame design, and disproportionate stratification aimed at reaching Hispanic and non-Hispanic Black respondents as well as those living in areas with high rates of COVID-19 vaccine hesitancy.

Yeah, ok. I agree they definitely need to break this down by age because I know damn well virtually no one in my age group (millennials) reliably answers random, unsaved, numbers or even regularly talks on the phone on purpose. Everything is done by text. And don't let it be an 800 or 866 number. That's definitely going straight to VM, lol.

The margin of error for the political affiliation is interesting, also.

[quote]I know damn well virtually no one in my age group (millennials) reliably answers random, unsaved, numbers or even regularly talks on the phone on purpose.

I fail to see how that makes your generation unique. I am 68 and never answer random, unsaved, numbers or even regularly talk on the phone on purpose.

Mazel!

^^Proof positive that academic degrees don't necessarily confer intelligence or integrity.

Nutbags: "Masks don't work."

Science:

Methinks the graph at R503 does not mean what the sarcastic tweeter thinks it means.

I won't be as diplomatic as ElderLez...

R486 is a fucking racist, lying, right wing, piece-of-shit.

If ya liked Omicron you'll cream your jeans over...

Thanks, R507. Facts are a good disinfectant against trolls.

Omicron BA.2 is boring. Now here's something interesting. First the rats take our pizza and now they our coronaviruses. (maybe)

R510 Can you summarize for those of us on the other side of the paywall?

From the article:

Last January, a team of researchers searching for the coronavirus in New York City’s wastewater spotted something strange in their samples. The viral fragments they found had a unique constellation of mutations that had never been reported before in human patients — a potential sign of a new, previously undetected variant.

For the past year, these oddball sequences, or what the scientists call “cryptic lineages,” have continued to pop up in the city’s wastewater.

“At this point, what we can say is that we haven’t found the cryptic lineages in human databases, and we have looked all over,” said Monica Trujillo, a microbiologist at Queensborough Community College and an author of the new paper.

The researchers themselves are torn about the lineages’ origins. Some lean toward the explanation that the virus is coming from people whose infections aren’t being captured by sequencing. But others suspect that the lineages may be coming from virus-infected animals, possibly the city’s enormous population of rats.

And if you prefer hamsters to rats.

r512 honey were you sober when you posted this? please say no. you'll believe anything. bless your heart!

Does anyone else get the feeling Covid is making this personal?

Yes, it's the Jaws: The Revenge of pandemics.

Umm, excuse me r507, but I'm Black and have been in and out of this thread since r64. I think I know what the hell I'm talking about when it comes to cultural schisms between my own damn people and Whites in this country.

And, it is true, that in general, we're less likely to trust this vaccine. Please don't get me started on the history of medical discrimination in this country; remnants of which still exists in our healthcare system today, namely in the women's healthcare sector. That Kaiser study had a sample size of roughly 300 people who were surveyed over the phone.

I'd be more than happy to elaborate on these schisms, but don't sit up here and automatically assume everyone posting on this damn website is White. A large majority? Absolutely. But everyone? Absolutely not.

[quote]I fail to see how that makes your generation unique. I am 68 and never answer random, unsaved, numbers or even regularly talk on the phone on purpose.

Meh, r502. I'm willing to wager that the personality type more likely to frequent online discussion forums, skews that statistic a bit to a certain bias, as this format of communication tends to be more attractive to people, of all age groups, who may literally despise talking on the phone and tend to be more introverted.

Then it's even more sad that you are a black racist, R517. But, then again, you are a liar, so who knows what you really are.

[quote] Johns Hopkins University study reveals COVID lockdowns prevented just 0.2% of deaths

I would agree that lockdowns, as they were instituted in the US and in parts of Europe, were not very effective. One could not make the same argument regarding Australia, New Zealand, and China. Draconian lockdowns instituted before the virus was spreading seemed to work pretty magnificently in reducing death rates in those places. The problem is that such lockdowns cannot be sustained indefinitely, and the minute they are relaxed the virus is very happy to spread quickly. In the US and in Europe, the virus was already fairly widespread when the lockdowns were instituted and in many places, (nursing homes and assisted living places), lockdowns actually exacerbated the problem. Besides, there were industries described as essential, and those workers came and went freely bringing COVID with them wherever they were. And people were leaving their homes to do grocery shopping and for toiletries and pharmaceuticals, spreading COVID. None of these measures were instituted so much to prevent deaths as much as to keep medical systems from being overwhelmed.

[quote]Last January, a team of researchers searching for the coronavirus in New York City’s wastewater spotted something strange in their samples.

We now know the career that came in at number one on 2021's list of worst jobs in America, replacing 2020's winner, crack whore.

You, r519 from the John McWhorter Talks About Woke Racism With Andrew Yang thread

[quote]While whites have the Rittenhouse assholes and the occasional school shooters, the whiter neighborhoods in the US do not have roaming, armed groups of street thugs randomly shooting up the entire neighboorhood and killing children every fucking day and night. [bold]It is no longer redlining or racism fucking over black communities. It's black communities fucking themselves over.[/bold]

I literally explained to you why we tend to distrust the medical community and the government, are underrepresented in polls such as the one posted, now twice, here by Kaiser, while being over-represented in COVID death statistics, and yet you have the audacity to call me a "Black racist" for bringing it up?

Honestly, after writing something like that from the other thread, I'd wager your criticism of the issues in the Black community aren't actually in good faith since you clearly are too damn hard-headed to listen to someone actually from that community trying to get you to understand the perspective of why vaccination rates may still remain low in our communities because of hesitation. My father literally died from this shit, even while being vaccinated, and my siblings and myself [bold]still[/bold] don't want it. Many others in my family and neighborhood who were very close with my dad also are still refusing to get the vaccine.

That's how little the government and medical community has earned the Black community's trust overall. Seems like you'd want to peel the layers back and understand why, but I guess it's more fun to keyboard warrior about Black on Black crime whenever the subject broaches itself in yet another DL thread. You sound goofy as hell. -_-

Some people need to get over themselves.

Do no trust any official figures coming out of CCP China.

Except, R523, what I said was completely fucking true and what you said is completely fucking false.

As far as the effectiveness of lockdowns, America never had one. The end.

Of course lockdowns prevented 0.2% of deaths. Because the "lockdowns" in most countries were a fucking joke.

Except, r526, what I said is not completely false...

Once again, their sample size was ~300 Black people. Then there's this stated limitation:

[quote]While the data provide useful insights, they remain subject to gaps, limitations, and inconsistencies that limit the ability to get a complete picture of who is and who is not getting vaccinated. As noted, at the federal level, race/ethnicity remains unknown for about a quarter of vaccinations. Moreover, CDC does not report state level vaccination data by race/ethnicity nor racial/ethnic data for vaccinations among children, and its racial/ethnic data for booster dose recipients is limited to those ages 65 and older.

The racial/ethnicity vaccination gap narrowing does not take away from the fact that there are still fewer Black people than Whites who have gotten vaccinated in the US, overall. The data from the link, which, again, has been posted twice now, literally shows this, and it's well-known that we were (and in many cases still are) the most hesitant group to get it. I merely provided perspective as to why that is to suggest an examination into certain public health policies that is more holistic.

The argument over whether what r528 has presented in his thoughtful posts is true or not is specious, irrelevant and totally non-productive.

The greater concern should be developing outreach to vaccine-hesitant communities to provide them with knowledge to evaluate and hopefully trust that vaccines are safe and will save their lives.

Anything else merely contributes to the problem. Or worse, ignores that the problem exists.

The study posted at R520 was written by economists. There have already been several good debunkings of it by actual epidemiologists.

Please, can we not engage the tiresome troll? And (as Sylvia suggests) that ridiculous "lockdown" study either (already dealt with in the No Pi" thread). R529, what "outreach" do you suggest to vaccine-hesitant communities, and by whom? The correct information has already been already put out there, effortlessly available for two years as the vaccines were developed, tested, distributed, and boosted, but it's relentlessly opposed and distorted by whole cable channels and social platforms (whose misinformation your "thoughtful" poster persists in amplifying).

Anti-Vax ‘Expert’ Lies And Says Vaccines Turn You Into A Cyborg Controlled By 5G

[quote]Vaccines Turn You Into A Cyborg

Cool.

I'm still waiting for my personality to become magnetic.

R514 I'd had a glass and a half of pretty awful Riesling with dinner so I wouldn't say I was entirely sober, but I'd also say I wasn't particularly drunk.

What do you find unbelievable? That scientist are tracking SARS-CoV-2 in the sewer? That they've found variants in wastewater that haven't been found in people? That animals other than humans can become infected? That there are rats in New York? Or that viruses evolve in non-human hosts?

I've already said in previous threads that I think Omicron was an animal reservoir spill-back* so I don't think my post was any breaking news on my views.

*I am fully prepared to be wrong though and find out it really was a person with AIDS who couldn't clear the virus.

Shit, all I got was an extra shot of autism. I want my cyborg booster!

Did your dick shrink r537?

Why Mike Pence can never be a hero...

Did any of us think that he could r539?

Well, that's based on some people giving him kudos for FINALLY saying Trump is wrong about his ability to not certify the election.

^ Also he brings up his inaction as head of the COVID Task Force. Yet the trolls still want to bash Kamala.

[quote]The argument over whether what [R528] has presented in his thoughtful posts is true or not is specious, irrelevant and totally non-productive.

*Her. And agreed. Moving on.

[quote]The greater concern should be developing outreach to vaccine-hesitant communities to provide them with knowledge to evaluate and hopefully trust that vaccines are safe and will save their lives.

[quote]Anything else merely contributes to the problem. Or worse, ignores that the problem exists.

[quote]r529 what "outreach" do you suggest to vaccine-hesitant communities, and by whom?

They can start by lifting the "discussion fatwa" over natural immunity and stop demonizing [italic]actual scientific fact[/italic] supported by mounds of data showing that it's actually [bold]more[/bold] protective than vaccination alone. The fact that the conversation around this is so polarized and controversial was enough to push me further into the "fuck it, I'll just continuing being a hermit, then" mindset. That CDC study has several different headlines depending on the news network reporting it; E.g. "CDC Study Finds Natural Immunity Outperforms Vaccination" (right-leaning media outlets), "Vaccination After Natural Infection Offers Strongest Protection, Recent CDC Study Finds" (left-leaning media outlets). And then, you have the actual study data:

[quote]...during the week of October 3...Rates among vaccinated persons [bold]without a previous COVID-19 diagnosis[/bold] were consistently higher than rates among unvaccinated persons [bold]with a history of COVID-19[/bold] (3.1-fold higher [95% CI = 2.6–3.7] in California and 1.9-fold higher [95% CI = 1.5–2.3] in New York) and rates among vaccinated persons with a history of COVID-19 (3.6-fold higher [95% CI = 2.9–4.3] in California and 2.8-fold higher [95% CI = 2.1–3.4] in New York).

Between the unvaccinated naturally immune and the vaccinated naturally immune, for that week, that's a total reduction fold difference of -1.4. When you look at the graph from that study, the line for both cohorts is so close that in some weeks they're overlapping, and when you view the chart, there are even times when the unvaccinated and naturally immune [bold]marginally outperform[/bold] even the vaccinated and naturally immune. That is not insignificant and warrants consideration.

I don't like the one-size fits all approach to this vaccine. That has never been a common practice medicine. The public campaign to encourage vaccination was inconsistent and downright predatory (lottery tickets and free donuts...because that's healthy). I don't like the gaslighting behind concerns of certain vaccine side effects. I don't like the outright dismissal of data regarding various repurposed drugs and early treatment.

The attitude from "vaccine zealots," namely those who express a desire for all unvaccinated to be killed or "suffer and die," only reinforces my hesitation because that, to me, demonstrates that such people don't actually care about the personal well-being of others or truly examining the science, but only care about "their side" being right (even when wrong) and having control over other people's bodies. Anyone that can express so much hatred over something like this for another group is not a good person, to me. So, why would we listen to them? Why [italic]should[/italic] we? How effective is that approach? Moreover, how has it been working out for you so far? I mean...really?

And then, there's this bullshit...

r543, you are fixated on the concept of natural immunity vs vaccination, but the real issue is natural immunity is hard to quantify - as we saw in Australia, when apparently Djokovic either fabricated it or in any case never properly documented it. Anyone and his dog could show up at a public venue and say, "let me in, I'm perfectly safe and won't infect anyone or get infected because I've had COVID". If that statement is true, then, yes, the person probably does have some degree of natural immunity. But, crucially, where's the evidence? Why should anyone trust such a statement? Vaccinations have been accompanied by unique identifiers and cards. While the original hope was that vaccination would prevent infection, what has been proven unequivocally, is that vaccination reduces hospitalization and death - by a factor of 9 fold in some epidemiology studies. For those who SURVIVE COVID (and that's the kicker), I don't doubt that they have a level of natural immunity although there hasn't been enough research to demonstrate that it is protective against other strains. Already there have been people who have been shown to have been infected by COVID THREE times, all with different strains, so that's concerning. On the other hand, around 2% of the people who have COVID do not survive (in the US). Those who do survive serious cases hog hospital and medical resources at an astounding rate. When and ONLY IF medical science comes up with a quick and reliable test that will show that not only has someone had COVID but can show an inquiring person or agency that that infection left him with a robust immune response, should that be taken as the equivalent of a vaccination card.

R544, that poster is not going to hear your arguments. She's a one-trick troll and many of us have blocked her. But thanks putting the facts out there for those who do listen.

RI is similar to NY, daily infection rate is plummeting as fast as it shot up, and the hospitalizations are following, but we're still seeing deaths every day.

I meant to post this link yesterday.

Also a quote from a related WaPo article DataLounge won't let me link to:

However, details of the Tuskegee case are poorly understood, Tuckson says. For instance, many people falsely assume the men were injected with syphilis. “The outrageousness of the Tuskegee syphilis study was that African American men with a serious disease were denied access to the drug that would have saved them,” he says. “The irony today is people are using the Tuskegee experiment as a justification for denying ourselves access to a drug that can save us.”

r544 The thing is, I disagree with the concept of "vaccination passports" for non-healthcare workers, entirely. I think that's where we both differ.

You are coming from a perspective of supporting this practice, while I am against it. I also believe that implementing it on the public at this stage is having the opposite of the desired effect which is, one would assume, everyone accepting a vaccine passport as the norm. I think that your perspective on this is also the take that those trying to impose mandates in the public health sector have taken.

You are correct, from a logistical standpoint, it is a complicated task to make provisions for those who are naturally immune. Israel implemented something similar in their green card system, however. I, personally, believe that implementing mandates this early in the vaccine's release was a bad call when we knew ahead of time, back in 2020, that hesitation was an issue due to the speed at which the vaccines were developed.

That said, there is plenty of data to support that natural immunity offers robust protection against severe disease, hospitalization and death. The same for vaccination. Neither protects 100% from infection and that was never the goal, so I'm not really sure why there is so much focus on that all of a sudden.

[quote][R544], that poster is not going to hear your arguments. She's a one-trick troll...

I'm fairly certain menlovinguy is a big boy and can decide whom he engages with. It's very weird how you're trying to police a conversation that you admittedly have no interest in participating in, to begin with.

[quote]“The outrageousness of the Tuskegee syphilis study was that African American men with a serious disease [bold]were denied access to the drug that would have saved them,” [/bold]he says.

I know. The argument today is that it is possible that is what is happening, again, with this virus in favor of the vaccines. As for a reason, I don't know. The most plausible theory I can think of is that the pharmaceutical companies couldn't have gotten an investigational new drug EUA from the FDA for their product if it was found to be treatable by drugs that are already FDA approved.

The government can show what could have been a latent positive outcome from that study, but that's not going to change the deep resentment and mistrust that it engendered in the black culture. I work on a lot of tv shows and film with diverse (really means black) casts, and it's mind boggling how about 50-65% of them plead "medical or religious" reasons to not get the vaccine.

This thread reminds me of straight dudes who endlessly post statistical minutiae about baseball.

^ Well there are only two dudes posting.

Anti-Vax Priest Dies Of COVID After Spreading Lies About Vaccines

R552 Thoughts and prayers.

"One-year risks and burdens of cardiovascular diseases among those who survive the acute phase of COVID-19 are substantial and span several cardiovascular disorders.

The risks were evident regardless of age, race, sex and other cardiovascular risk factors, including obesity, hypertension, diabetes, chronic kidney disease and hyperlipidemia; they were also evident in people without any cardiovascular disease before exposure to COVID-19, providing evidence that these risks might manifest even in people at low risk of cardiovascular disease.

Two key findings:

(1)the risks and associated burdens were evident among those who were not hospitalized during the acute phase of the disease.

(2) the risks and associated burdens exhibited a graded increase across the severity spectrum of the acute phase of COVID-19 (from non-hospitalized to hospitalized individuals to those admitted to intensive care).

I found this data-based, well reasoned plan for how populations could react to coming waves & troughs of COVID that absolutely no government on Earth will adapt. Still, it's nice to dream, and one can use these guidelines for one's own behavior.

This study concludes that Omicron is only "mild" compared to Delta but is as dangerous as the original SARS-CoV-2 infection.

[quote]The implication is that unvaccinated individuals remain at just as high risk of severe outcomes as at the beginning of the pandemic, though Omicron is widely considered a mild variant.

Struggling to Breathe Marjorie Taylor Greene Rants About "Mask"

Israel is among the most highly vaccinated and boosted countries in the world, yet they have the highest amount of deaths.

Meanwhile, the obese Orange Whale got over Covid in what, 4-5 days, before vaccines even existed?

I'm going to guess they aren't hiding statistics like most other countries.

Not even close to the highest number of deaths. 86 per day. Gross misreading of the statistic. (US currently over 3000/day). Israel is about 1/25 of US population. 25 X 86 =2150 So people in the US are dying at a rate nearly 1/3rd higher than Israel. Who puts out this shit?

[quote]Israel is among the most highly vaccinated and boosted countries in the world,

Per NYT today, 74% of Israel's population has received at least one dose of the vaccine. That puts it at #56 on the list of most vaccinated countries, between Panama and Iran -- and eight notches below the U.S., which no one would characterizes as "among the most highly vaccinated and boosted countries in the world."

I was just going to post the same as R561. You have to read everything in context.

[quote]Meanwhile, the obese Orange Whale got over Covid in what, 4-5 days, before vaccines even existed?

The Orange Whale was immediately admitted to the hospital and given deluxe care, including then-novel monoclonal antibodies.

Still today, the average person with covid is told to go home and take some Tylenol.

[quote]I suspect by the end of the month, they will be announcing the pandemic as over.

Not if BA.2 takes over.

Well that sucks.

I posted this once before. I had the original version (2020) and I feel fine BUT still no sense of taste or smell. However, I get these crazy phantom smells now and then so I am hopeful that both will return eventually.

Hopefully they are good phantom smells r566. It would suck to smell rotting meat or garbage, like other people have gotten.

Hear doctor's grim prognosis for unvaccinated Covid-19 patient

Rough reading. "...a slow burn for years to come." Nurses discuss working with patients that survived hospitalization for severe COVID

That's called Phantonosmia R566.

My long term chiropractor chose not to get vaccinated, so I stopped going to him. I'm upset about it because I really like him, he's a great chiro and we got along really well. He was there for me during some medical issues (non-chiro related) and was very supportive. I texted him a few days ago to see how he was doing (and in hopes that he had changed his mind) and he still has not gotten vaccinated. He got Covid last month and is recovering. I'm sad that I have to cut him off, but I'm not going there anymore. I found a new chiro last year who I like, but not as much as this one. But this new chiro is vaxxed and understands science.

Freaky ... covid can reactivate an ancient virus protein "encoded" into human DNA.

I am convinced Covid is a bio weapon accidentally released. We will never know the whole truth about what happened.

ER Nurse on Reddit: I’ve seen more people die in the past two years than in my previous 18 years combined.

R574. I don't think it was an accident. Keep in mind, Trump -- despite all the shit he pulled and got away with -- was still ahead for most of 2020.

[quote]Still today, the average person with covid is told to go home and take some Tylenol.

That's exactly what they told my father to do; go home and isolate. Alone.

And then he died. Alone. Makes perfect sense for a virus so deadly the entire world had to shut down for it, and governments are threatening people's livelihoods who refuse its vaccine. That's not infuriating at all.

[quote]I am convinced Covid is a bio weapon accidentally released.

Apparently, there were leaked documents from DARPA that showed it was actually a vaccine they were developing in Wuhan at the Wuhan lab for bat coronaviruses that they were going to release into the local bat caves in an aerosolized form so the bats could get vaccinated by breathing it in but the vaccine leaked before it reached the attenuated phase.

^The attached article is a clear expose' of Jared Kushner's dirty self-dealing actions while in the WH. The section on his role in the US Covid response is certainly suggestive of some of the things the last administration did and did not do, for their own personal gain and at the expense of uncalculated Americans' lives. The story covers three generations of Kushners but the last part, about Jared, is the real focus of the piece. Interesting things in the Comments section, too, from people who knew little Jared prior to Donny's reign.

I just want to know when the apes are finally going to take over and put humans in our place because of this, very obvious, "oopsie" of science.

^ Speaking of that franchise...

This scene from the first one always bothered me because you can clearly see that Cesar lets out virus particulates in the guy's house, but neither him or that girl get sick. Also, why didn't the keepers at the ape facility get sick after he literally flooded the whole building with it?

Big continuity error.

R573 that would be interesting if it wasn't coming from the hysterical Feigl-Ding.

This is scary as hell and yeah, welcome to my life as of April 2020:

I have no idea what EFD is wow-ing about. Is it news to him that HERVs account for ~8-9% of our genome and are activated by all sorts of viruses as well as cancer? Without turning this into a six-paragraph slog thought the weeds, in immunotherapy, the exploitation of HERVs as a sort of built-in adjuvant which lights up cancer cells is looking extremely promising

CONFIRMED: Candace Owens Disgustingly Wrong About Bob Saget's Death

EU investigates reports of menstrual disorders after mRNA Covid shots

The European Medicines Agency’s safety committee said on Friday it was reviewing reports of heavy menstrual bleeding and absence of menstruation from women who had received Covid-19 vaccines from Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna.

The assessment was in view of reports of menstrual disorders after receiving either of the two vaccines, both based on messenger RNA technology, and it was not yet clear whether there was a causal link, the agency said.

Menstrual disorders can occur due to a range of underlying medical conditions as well as from stress and tiredness, the EMA said, adding that cases of such disorders had also been reported following Covid-19 infection.

Vaccination against Covid-19 was linked with a small, temporary change in menstrual cycle length, according to a recent study funded by the National Institutes of Health, which collected data from nearly 4,000 users of a smartphone app that tracks menstrual cycles.

But the EMA said in December it had not established a link between changes in menstrual cycles and Covid-19 vaccines, after a study in Norway suggested some women had heavier periods after being inoculated.

After reviewing the available evidence, the EMA’s Pharmacovigilance Risk Assessment Committee (PRAC) said it decided to request an evaluation of all available data, including reports from patients and healthcare professionals, clinical trials and the published literature.

The agency on Friday added that there was also no evidence to suggest that Covid-19 vaccines affected fertility.

Last responders: Mental health damage from Covid could last a generation, professionals say

Aside from the obvious physical impacts of the Covid-19 pandemic, health professionals have told CNBC that many people are struggling with the immense emotional and societal changes it has brought. What’s more, they’re finding it hard to adapt to a “new normal” now that lockdowns are starting to ease.

Many psychologists and psychiatrists have reported an influx of people seeking mental health support during the pandemic, with the unprecedented global health crisis causing an increase in anxiety and depression as well as exacerbating existing mental health conditions.

“I have never been as busy in my life and I’ve never seen my colleagues as busy,” Valentine Raiteri, a psychiatrist working in New York, told CNBC.

“I can’t refer people to other people because everybody is full. Nobody’s taking new patients ... So I’ve never been as busy in my life, during the pandemic, and ever in my career,” he said, adding that he’s also seen an influx of former patients returning to him for help.

Raiteri said that many of his patients are still working remotely and were isolated, with many feeling “disconnected and lost, and they just have this kind of malaise.”

“That is really hard for me to do anything about,” he said, noting: “I can’t make the pressures disappear. I can always treat the illness that it provokes.”

Numerous studies on the impact of Covid on mental health have been carried out. One study, published in The Lancet medical journal in October, looked at the global prevalence of depression and anxiety disorders in 204 countries and territories in 2020 due to the Covid pandemic.

It found that mental health dramatically declined in that year, with an estimated 53 million additional cases of major depressive disorders and 76 million additional cases of anxiety disorders seen globally. Women and younger people were found to be affected more than men and older adults. Anxieties

As the pandemic really took hold in the spring of 2020, there was little understanding of how long the pandemic would last. Psychologists say there was a surprising amount of resilience during the first few months of the virus’ outbreak, particularly when many countries went into unprecedented lockdowns.

Raiteri said that over time, however, the loss of daily social contact started to take its toll.

“There’s definitely a huge mental health impact from a long period of uncertainty and change that’s left people very isolated and not sure how to connect. Just being out in public and interacting in a very casual way with strangers or mild acquaintances, that’s very regulating, and norm-creating and reality affirming.”

When we stop getting those signals, Raiteri said, “our internal voices become stronger and it becomes harder and harder to self regulate.”

That created a “big pressure cooker, especially for people who already have a vulnerability,” he said.

Natalie Bodart, a London-based clinical psychologist and head of The Bodart Practice, told CNBC that the pandemic meant that many people had to confront issues in their life that they’d been able to avoid before, such as alcoholism, relationship issues, isolation and loneliness.

“Our day to day lives serve as great defense mechanisms, we have lots of distractions that help us to avoid things, for good and for ill,” she said.

“For example, we have had younger people that have come to us and said, ‘now that I’m not doing my very sociable busy job anymore, I realize I’ve got a problem with alcohol.’ And why is that? Well, that’s because it can’t be covered up anymore by the fact that their work demands that they socialize and drink a lot. Or, people who have been in relationships where they don’t see that much of their partner, so it works, it functions, but then you’re stuck at home with that person and suddenly realize, actually, there’s a lot of things coming out that we just haven’t confronted or haven’t realized.”

For some people, particularly those with acute social anxiety, Covid lockdowns provided the perfect cover, however.

“For many people, they work really hard, pushing themselves to interact more with other people to socialize more, and Covid just meant that they didn’t have to do that anymore. So they were talking about this huge sense of relief,” Leigh Jones, a clinical psychologist and the co-founder of Octopus Psychology, told CNBC.

“But although they were kind of delighted when it first happened, then [they were] being really worried about facing people again. And that’s been a kind of across the board, people with social anxiety, people with personality disorder, who are avoidant of other people, because ... it wasn’t so much the isolation that was difficult. It was the getting back out there,” said Jones, who works with both public and private patients in Leeds and Bradford in northern England.

“For practically everybody I see, Covid has had some kind of impact,” she said, noting she has other patients “who have huge issues around feeling very, very vulnerable to harm or illness” or contagion.

“Obviously, for them, this has been their worst nightmare,” she said. Trauma

To date, there have been over 400 million Covid cases around the world and over 5.7 million deaths, according to data compiled by Johns Hopkins University. Restrictions on social contact have prevented millions of people from sharing not just milestones like births and weddings with family and friends, but also final moments with loved ones, with many unable to hold or attend funerals during the strictest points of lockdown.

Jones noted that she had concerns over the loss of “rituals” associated with death. “I do really worry about the impact on grieving, because we have rituals for a reason, which is to help us process the loss and the grief,” she said.

Katherine Preedy, a clinical psychologist based near London, told CNBC that she is seeing “a lot of trauma, either people who’ve lost people due to Covid” or have experienced other traumatic situations such as not being able to visit sick or dying relatives because of restrictions.

“This is a whole generation [that’s been affected by Covid], it’s two years of our lives, I think this will have a big impact. There may be first responders, people in hospitals, who are still very much in that survival mode, and then, there’s obviously the emotional impact on people, whole industries being lost, the health [impact].”

She noted that mental health professionals are also under pressure to help a greatly increased number of patients.

“We’re a nation that’s traumatized and under stress; the whole world is under trauma and stress, which means we, like the people we work with, have fewer resources to draw on and have to work a bit harder to make sure we’re looking after ourselves,” she continued. Milestones lost

Bereavement, isolation, uncertainty and loss — a loss of freedoms, relationships and moments that can’t be relived and retrieved — are just some of the issues that have affected many people during the pandemic. Psychologists say that while the pandemic may be in its “endgame” phase now, the mental health impact of Covid could be felt for years.

Alex Desatnik, a consultant clinical psychologist in the U.K. working with adults and children, told CNBC that he believes it will take “at least a generation” to resolve the damage to many young people caused by missed milestones and experiences crucial for development.

“Kids who grew up in this state, in this condition, and those things that they were deprived of, they will take this with them through life. I hope that as a society we will do as much as we can to compensate for what happened, and is still happening, actually,” he said.

“You are a 15-year-old teenager only once,” he said. “Everything we know about brain development, physical development, emotional development, with each age there is a unique window of opportunities” in which to grow, learn and develop, he said.

Milestones linked to age and development are, once passed, tricky to go back and “repair” Desatnik noted. The new normal?

The advent of Covid vaccines has heralded what we all hope is the beginning of the end of the pandemic, despite new variants like omicron posing challenges to the shots that have been developed. The threat of a new mutation that could pose a more severe risk to health is also a concern.

For now, however, most developed nations with widespread vaccination coverage, and booster programs, are reopening and getting back to normal, or a “new normal” — perhaps one in which routine mask-wearing and Covid testing are a part of our lives for the foreseeable future.

Bodart noted that “one thing we’re maybe confronting now at this stage in the pandemic, in my opinion, is this sense that we’re not really going back, we’re not going back to how things were.”

“We’ve kind of got into this very hybrid living situation now, where companies and most places ... seem to be accepting that this hybrid situation is going to be continuing. So there’s a bit of a strange feeling about that — how does that feel? To know that life has, sort of, changed now? And maybe for many people of a particular generation, this is the first major life transition of that kind that’s come about,” she noted.

The pandemic had offered an opportunity for people to look within and to confront personal issues and problems, and has forced many to do so. There can even be positive outcomes to that, Bodart said.

“I think for some people, they have gone back to things that they needed ... things have opened up a bit and so that’s been very helpful,” she said.

“But maybe for other people, if they’ve been put in touch with something, they’ve become aware of something, then you can’t really bury that again. That’s going to be something that you then have to work through and address, and maybe that’s a good thing.”

Great. We have a menstrual disorder anti vaxx troll.

Oh, she smells familiar.

hey, can someone post info/stats about developing mental illness after getting covid? I think a former co-worker is nutso. went to texas to jump out of a plane...he has a bad back and family with kids. it's some kind of course that last 1 week.

Let Darwin take care of it, r592.

[quote]Mental health damage from Covid could last a generation, professionals say

And that's just from having to deal with all the asshole antivaxxers and covid deniers...may they never rest in peace.

[quote]“You are a 15-year-old teenager only once,” he said. “Everything we know about brain development, physical development, emotional development, with each age there is a unique window of opportunities” in which to grow, learn and develop, he said.

Like what, exactly? This kind of gobbledygook jabbering is why people don't take these people seriously.

From personal experience, and a lot of similar reported happenings, I think the menstrual thing might be real. Don't know why it is happening but after my first series of shots, I got a regular period and then, two weeks later, another one that was really heavy. Didn't think much of it because I just figured it was some short term reaction to the immune system getting revved up. Everything went back to normal. Then, after the booster, I wasn't even thinking about it but got a really heavy period. Then realized that my regular one had only been 10 days prior to this one. So, two in one month. That has never happened to me in over 30 years but it happened twice over this last year, both times after getting the shot. I would have put it down to perimenopause but younger women have been reporting identical experiences. Don't think there's any damage to anything. Just some weird body thing with the immune system and endocrine system interacting.

New thread at the link.

R564

My sister swears it knocked her into menopause. She was like clockwork, and then nothing after the shots. She's 51, so not out of the ordinary, just weird coincidence.

Oh, but [bold]I'm[/bold] the crazy one not wanting to take that risk with my fibroids, already fucked up and miserable menstrual cycle, and natural immunity.

Y'all on some bullshit with this one. Sorry. I wish I would...

"She was like clockwork"

Probably not. Quite a few women deceive themselves into thinking their cycle has been a 100 per cent regular prior to menopause, perhaps because of refusing to accept that their fertility wanes.

[quote]but I'm the crazy one

Admitting your problem is half of the solution.