And Just Like That … part 7 discussion

I like Carrie’s downtown place more than any of her others.

There’s heaps of light, water views, a nice balcony, and it’s a modern aesthetic.

Would be interested in hearing others’ thoughts on the place.

[Am I biased....given that I loved my DT place in Manhattan? It made grey days there tolerable.)

The interior was a studio set and the outside CGI R1

Robby Benson is sick of CGI.

I'll tolerate a Thread #7, but you bitches need to mix it up a bit.

The past 6 threads can be summarized by:

-Che is awful

-Kristen is fat and had bad work done

-Miranda and Steve seem like idiots

-Carrie is self absorbed

-We miss Kim Cattrall

-They did a disservice to Stanford's storyline

-This show sucks in general

Can we find some different things to say for this next thread?

Dear person (people) who closed threads 5 and 6 by posting over and over. If you do that again with this thread, please post the link to part 8 in your cavalcade of closing posts. Part 5 was closed with no link to part 6. Part 6 had the link around 558.

If you are going to intentionally post to get to 600 and close the thread, including the link to the next one would be a nice courtesy.

Thank you for your consideration.

R5, the previous threads all did have a link to the next one, including Part 6. It just got overrun by the stupid killposting thereafter.

R4, I don't want to encourage your thread policing, but instead of telling you that if you don't like it, you don't have to read it, I will play along:

I love SJP. I agree that a bun isn't a great look for her, but overall she looks pretty good. Some of her clothes have been a bit out there, but there is a pink dress she has worn a couple of times with a long coat that seems perfectly age appropriate (picture below, next to an unfortunate looking Cynthia Nixon). There was another pink dress with a belt that I liked quite a bit.

Overall, I am enjoying the show. It isn't Sex & the City, but it isn't supposed to be. New title, longer run time, and more of a Dramedy than a comedy. Che is, of course, terrible, and I think they could have had the character be tolerable with a few tweaks. Less in your face obnoxious, more characterization, and less "walking, talking, lesson about non-binaries."

They also need to figure out what the hell they are doing with the professor and her husband. Most of their scenes don't involve any of the other characters, and they seem like outtakes from another show that were accidentally inserted into AJLT.

I like Charlette's new friend, and she needs to be utilized more, I like Seema, and enjoyed seeing her in the fourth chair. I would like to see more of her.

It isn't the best show ever, but I do enjoy it, and I look forward to season 2. It is interesting to see the characters in a new stage of life.

My biggest complaint is what the hell they are doing with Miranda. I hope there is a payoff to her mid-life breakdown, and that they allow the character to pull her shit together, even if that means her life takes a new direction. She was never the flighty, selfish character, who had no direction. It is okay for that to happen in her 50s as a mid-life crisis, but it can't go on for too much longer.

I'm interested by the show, but it really is trying too hard in some regards while skipping over potentially interesting storylines that could really test the characters. The greatest thing the show could do is makeover Carrie and have to inherit very little money from Big, have to go back to her old place, struggle in the world of online dating, etc. These would all be interesting things that could allow Carrie to grow as a person, but since MPK and SJP think Carrie is the definition of perfection, they're continuing down the path of "Carrie is perfect and it's the world around her that needs to change." It makes for a dull, uninteresting character.

There's so many more avenues they could have gone down to kept the characters growing and interesting, such as one of them going bankrupt from a bad investment, or making a major career change, instead of the lesbian awakening and trans child plotlines which are straight out of the 2000's.

R9 I agree about the plots, but I also don’t want to see them go through any major trauma. The biggest trauma in the previous show was Samantha’s character having breast cancer and they managed to make it have funny moments.

R10 don't worry, we have plenty of comedy!

I thought last week's show was a great improvement over the previous ones. The "I have a toddler" guy had me laughing hysterically. Yes, we (gays) have become them.

The show is not as sexy as SatC but it's also aimed at a different age audience more in keeping with the protagonists. I agree with what's been said about Kristen, Che and the dark tone. Hopefully it'll change. The show's aesthetic remains a knock out and that alone makes it fun to watch.

R12 they should've backed up and hit him with the car. The toddler would be better off.

I’m enjoying the show well enough, disappointed with Miranda’s story arc, & think Kristin looks amazing & don’t get why she’s getting so much flak over her looks.

The one thing that made me laugh (for the wrong reason) was Charlotte saying she had a sex dream about Che. Nobody is buying that Che is that desirable.

R15 I don't know. Lezzies love those butch ladies who love to take charge.

Have you seen Cynthia Nixon's wife? She make Che look like Grace Kelly.

The "Hey! It's Che Diaz!" memes going around are really making me laugh at the moment.

r16 but Charlotte I think would have higher standards

Here you go R18

R16? As a lesbian who loves (and has slept with) many very butch women, allow me to tell you that I would never even consider sleeping with Rojo Caliente OR Che Diaz. Ever.

I would, however, kill or die to make love to Rachael Maddow.

Hahahahaha R20. OMG, I love it!

Che does what they were created for, get the haters all riled up screaming "See? That's why we hate these non-binaries! They are all like that! So exhausting, so In-Your-Face!". So easy to trigger them. Che is the haters' worst nightmare. And they can't stop obsessing about them (as in Che).

Lesbians don't have to come out as non-binaries to find their place within the Lesbian Community. Bull dykes were always accepted within the Lesbian and the LGBT Community. Just like, say, the bears are a well established part of the Gay / LGBT Community.

Non-Binary is about the rejection of strict gender roles, where people are very eager to escape some perception or pressure put on them by their peers (family, colleagues, etc.).

I love Seema

How exactly does non-binary relate to trans-sexuals, bi-sexuals and pan-sexuals? How can you think you are gender-less?

I just watched the first two episodes. I liked them a hell of a lot more than I expected.

The only movie I watched was the first one and I thought it was irredeemably bad. I expected that—so low expectations to say the least.

What I like most is the serious tone. The 'dad joke' tone to the humor is seriously limited this time, and it is what annoyed me most about the original series.

Kristin Davis looks less freaky than I expected thanks to how she is shot, and her freaky facial alterations actually are what her character would do to herself in this era, and so I can accept it. I thought her close-ups alone are what would turn me off most. (If you read this, though, KD, please for the love of God let the fillers melt away and stay away from the needles!)

I love both of the new black characters. I really love them and I hope they both turn into regulars with more screen time. Charlotte's friend seems very cool and lovely based on her few small appearances, and Miranda's professor is awesome.

I am a little bit on the fence about Sara Ramirez's character. The way Ramirez plays her, she feels fully realized and I totally buy her. She's just also really obnoxious and I kind of do and kind of do not want to see much more of her.

Love that Stanford and Anthony are together and bickering. A little goes a long way with Stanford especially, but it's nice to see 'gays of a certain age' onscreen. I do think Stanford is borderline 'problematic' in his over-the-top cartoonish flamboyance; it seems like something of a relic of an older time. But it's s sitcom and I can shrug it off. That was always his character, so to change it now would be to rewrite who he is.

My only problem with these first two episodes is the way the 2020s are forced down our throats. How it is done is surprisingly stupid. Not only have we been absent from their world for 15-20 years, but have all the characters been in suspended animation? The emphasis on how things have changed suggests that all the characters have been removed from the world and suddenly dropped into 2021. Miranda always was socially conscious. How is she just now waking up to changes in the world? Why are podcasts depicted as something 55-/60-year-old women can't navigate? I work on a podcast for a listener base whose median age is mid-60s and goes on up into the 80s, and they really adopted the technology quickly because it's easy to grasp, just like on-demand radio shows, and they tell me they listen while babysitting their grandkids at the pool, while walking their dogs, etc.

I hope the more serious tone persists. Not mourning, but not as many lame jokes as the original series, please. And I hope the women adjust quickly to the new worlds after having awaken from their offscreen hibernation because the old-ladies-learning-to-function-in-the-new-world angle is very, very weird. The characters are sophisticated independent adults from New York City. Or at least they used to be.

r18

ha!

Let's not forget how Miranda treated Skipper in season 1.

Miranda is a douche, take it easy on Che Diaz

The two cutest guys on the show are the black husbands.

[Quote] R15 I don't know. Lezzies love those butch ladies who love to take charge

R16 Isn't that ugly Che non-binary (=screaming that they're not ladies... or women.. or men)?

That photo at r16 is crazy. Cynthia Nixon’s wife is way shorter than she is.

More 'hey it's Che Diaz' please. Hilarious.

Revenge with a huge dose of meta:

Another day another morbidly obese fat black tranny who is transitioning. Yawn.

Why would anyone think Nixon is wearing a wig? Her hair really looks that shitty.

A case could have been made for bringing this show back. Killing off Big was a brave and interesting choice that could have brought up so many great conflicts for Carrie. Having a mother who lost a husband around the same age, I know what that can be like, especially if you've gotten used to a level of comfort that the husband has provided. They sidestepped nearly every potentially interesting storyline and then flash forward a few months. Such a waste.

The best episode so far was the one with Carrie pissing in the bottle as Miranda was getting finger blasted by Che in the kitchen. That's the tone the show should be striving for. It's ugly, uncomfortable, and still darkly funny.

Jesus Christ, that overly dramatic Queen with the “I have a toddler”! Fucking ridiculous. Goddamn writers, and director.

This is why they hate us.

R36 that is classic!

R41, it was stereotyped, but I don’t think the reaction was over the top. Geez they could have been killed. Remember the actress who was hit in New York with her child? Actually I thought the reaction of the couple in the car was weird. They laughed it off. If I were driving I would have been incredibly upset at myself.

What was the point of the fraubottom screaming that he has a toddler, anyway?

It wasn't exactly played for laughs, nor did it advance the characters or plot. It was just random, like the vomit-spewing scene.

R43 it could've been a serious moment...if the guy hadn't been a shrieking harpy screaming "I have a toddler!" for 30 seconds.

R43 I think the disturbing way it was played was that they are laughing at the "queeniness" of the character.

As has been shared elsewhere in these conversations: on the original show it was almost like the four women were stand-ins for NYC gay lifestyles. But then, "real gay" men have mostly been just minstrel show diversions.

That was such a DL moment. But on DL it's a shrill mother demanding special treatment for pushing a stroller with a baby in it.

On AJLT it was a gay dad freaking out about his baby.

Good point r46. The dad had every right to lose his mind but they played it as a joke.

There's only three episodes left. I'm with the the people who think it will get a second season despite all the criticism. Hate watching is still watching.

So in this show, gay men are still fodder for jokes, but no one else, I guess? I haven't really seen much change with those portrayals here.

Plus the black husband was like "Is he REALLY coming for me???" Like, how could a prancing FAT even DREAM of coming after me, a "strong Black man!"

FAT=FAG but I guess both fit here, but that takes away from the homophobia

I think it will get a second season... what will be interesting is what - if anything - changes. I agree hate watching is still hate watching but I would venture at guess that hate watching doesn't hold viewers as well as must-see-tv... there has to be a drop off. Maybe the mug cradling crowd drifts off?

Since HBO/Max is not ad supported, not sure how much "ratings" play into it. Thye'll have their own viewership #s since it's all streaming, but again, as long as they're getting buzz from teh show that may be all that matters.

I don't know if they run analyses to see if they get bigger than usual subscriber adds when a show/season launches or not. I doubt it since in the old days people pretty much had HBO or didn't.

So if there's precedent.... one of the factors in a show is:

"In the end, it drew meager ratings because you've seen the same plot 1,000 times already. But ratings have never been a huge concern for HBO. The real problem with Vinyl was that it made HBO look bad. They blew their money, their own reputation—and the reputation of some of the finest living artists!—on a show that combined all the worst parts of Mad Men and Almost Famous and somehow made that idea worse than it actually sounds."

So AJLT isn't a historic flop but it isn't exactly a creative or audience favourite triumph, either. It is hard to see it not doing a second season... I'd venture a guess the end of season coverage will have some bearing - there are bound to be season obituaries, it's too big a deal. Does HBO care Hey, It's Che Diaz has become a thing and not in a great way? At minimum you'd guess there's going to be a "We're committed to the project, of course, but we have a few notes..."

Is this the same MPK who gave us the second season of The Comeback?

R58 it's baffling I know. The Comeback is amazing and SATC under MPK is...so not.

R44 - It was very: They gays! They're just like us!"

The gays, not they gays

R58 and R59 - My take away from watching this steaming pile is that Lisa Kudrow was obviously the creative force behind The Comeback.

Kudrow also allowed Valerie to have her cringe worthy moments sprinkled in with a lot of nuance, humor, and humanity. SJP seems to only like Carrie being seen as fabulous even though so many of the best moments of the series have Carrie brought down to her knees. I think about the scene with Natasha at lunch in the original series or the scene with her being splashed with her own pee in this go round and those are the moments where I actually do feel some compassion towards the character. The "aren't I adorable?/fashion parade" shit is irksome.

Jesus! Is Nixon married to a circus clown in real life. Ewwww!

I like it more than I liked Sex and the City.

Kristen actually looks good. I did notice her ass got decently large.

Hey, it’s Che Diaz.

For some reason I keep reading it as Hey, it's The Che Diaz. I don't know why my brain keeps inserting a The.

Is Che Diaz the Jar Jar Binks of the AJLT universe?

Oh, the Jabba, surely.

The writers spent so much time trying to make it woke that they forgot who these characters were and should’ve thought about their evolution in the ten years they’ve been off the air.

Physically, Jabba, yes, R70. Level of annoyance is definitely Jar Jar.

Meesa Che Diaz, betcha, betcha.

A lot of the fashion on this show is over the top, but did no one else think Carrie's Missoni dress at the end of episode 5 was pretty fabulous?

R73, I commented in a previous thread, that is the best she's ever looked.

R75 I must have missed it! I was actually surprised when I thought no one even commented on it.

It is a beautiful dress when worn.

Do they ever mention menopause? I imagine they would have all cleared that milestone.

R73 Needs a Balenciaga IKEA bag over her head to make the look truly fabulous.

R73 she looks amazing in the dress because she is so skinny. Nobody bigger would look good in it. Girl don’t eat.

I like the whole look she wears in the scene where she goes on the date (that ends with him and her puking).

Nixon seems to have bullied the creators into examining all the ick issues of her own life. What a narcissist. Very few people can relate to her freak show family.

Well, she had the nerve to run for governor with no qualifications other than her confidence in her own wisdom, so driving story would have been as easy as flossing.

Miranda, throughout the series and movies, was assertive, sarcastic and career-driven. Her story lines were variations of corporate bullshit and preying Steve-types (remember Skipper).

I just don't buy ajlt Miranda is the same character.

This show is a tribute to SJP’s delusions.

R81, what freak show family? She’s married to another woman. You have a hell of a nerve posting she and her family are a freak show on a gay site.

God, I'd love somebody to do one those 'according to a person not authorized to speak on the matter' stories to figure out what the hell is going on when they put this thing together.

[quote] Why would anyone think Nixon is wearing a wig? Her hair really looks that shitty.

She is most definitely wearing a wig and it's not even a good one.

Incidentally, Carrie should quit those horrible hats she wears, she doesn't have the hear to carry them. Does anyone still wear a hat?

Head*

It's telling that they haven't acknowledged Kristin's weight after the way they mocked Kim's weight in the first SATC movie.

R73... from the neck down, yes. But that ratty hair. Won't someone have a word?

Yes I have a question. Is lesbian sex always so rough. Che finger banged Miranda so aggressively, and since that old lady pussy has to be dry af, that had to chafe.

One 'Hey, it's Che Dias' and just like that, Miranda's fountain of youth became an ancient geyser.

I'd like to think that since Cynthia wanted to have Miranda become a lesbian, that her real life wife Rojo fingered her in a friends kitchen after their fourth meeting.

Nixon is never going to live down the finger hanging. People will be waggling their fingers at her for years to come, which is the price she’ll pay for participating in a cash grab.

R94 more like the price she pays for insisting that Miranda's path mirror her own life

Evan Handler is not a good actor.

Evan looks like he's just collecting a paycheck, which he probably needs.

I'm surprised "Benny Hill" doesn't start playing when the husbands come on.

Neither of the surviving husbands have had anything to do. There's a reason fairy tales with "and they lived happily ever after". What comes after is BORING

R99 Hmmm. I actually thought Harry just relentlessly going at Charlotte for her narcissistic refusal to apologize was surprising and (relatively) interesting.

A modern romantic comedy about looking for love in your 50s would've been as revolutionary as SATC was 20-odd years ago. Had Charlotte been a widowed mother, Miranda been a divorced empty-nester and Carrie a widow left blindsided by the fact that her supposedly rich husband left her penniless, this show really would have had somewhere to go.

But Charlotte trying to compete with her rich mommy group is not compelling in the slightest, and Miranda behaving like a clown-house version of her former self and trashing her once-beloved husband is not sympathetic in the slightest. Nor is filthy-rich Carrie, languishing around her multiple homes throughout her days, more intensely self-absorbed than ever and convinced that she has real problems, worse than anyone else's.

There are just not relatable characters or situations. We don't expect a gritty documentary about the struggles of late middle-age, but we also want characters we can see ourselves in. SATC got that balance just right and this tepid, morose revival got it all wrong,

R7, I would hardly call what I wrote at R4 'thread policing'. It was a request, and one that has been upvoted a few times. I think it's good to bring that up from time to time, so the threads stay interesting.

Voila, this thread is actually more interesting, as folks are digging a bit deeper in their replies.

Christopher Herrmann looks like he is still keeping it tight, baby voice or not. I think he is on those Chicago shows, does he get his kit off on any of those? He obviously won't be on this.

Sorry, David Eigenberg, Christopher Herrmann is his character on those Chicago shows.

But the issue, r101, is I don’t want to see those struggles at all. I have enough of my own. The original was frothy and funny, with some serious moments thrown in. That’s what attracted me to the show in the first place. I think the heart of the issue is that making this show more realistic would make it more dramatic, and more serious. I don’t want that, so I don’t know if there’s a happy medium with this reboot.

Not quite sure as you that your intervention righted the ship, R102, but here's a "Thank God for you" anyway. You seem to need it.

You arrogant fucktard.

I don't think Miranda's husband was ever beloved.

I didn't think he was beloved until the backlash of resentment over Miranda cuckholding him. Or it is cupholding, under the circumstances?

His ass was beloved

Che is so fucking hot.

I am really enjoying this series but I do agree about the wealth aspect. Carrie is so rich that her husband leaving a million dollars to someone is no big deal, and that she can just sell and absentmindedly buy multimillion-dollar condos in NYC on whims? A far and uncomfortable cry from Carrie Bradshaw.

And Miranda is a lawyer so wealthy in NYC that she can just quit her job and go to Cornell while her husband lies around and whines? How rich is she supposed to be?

I don't have a problem with Miranda's lesbian relationship. Samantha had a fling with a woman and Miranda is really a much more believable lesbian than Samantha was.

I always liked Steve. And I thought he was nerdy-ish cute/sexy. He always wanted to fuck her. I hate the way they’ve done his character. He’s not 100 years old.

Kristen Davis is not that big. She’s got the ass that’s in now. Lol

I thought the way they dressed Carrie in Ep 7 was very nice. I wish SJP would not wear her hair in a bun. It makes her look as old as Steve is portrayed to be. Only one time in the episode did she actually look decent with it that way.

Che needs to go. Very annoying characters. I added this s since it’s a them and no I am not that crazed anti-trans troll. Fucking sick of their shit.

Che Diaz is so charismatic! I even had a sex dream about them! You're all lying if you said you haven't had one!

I do not find Carrie's repeated reminders that her husband has died to be inappropriate. Her world has come off it's axis, her life will never be the same. Although she could have predicted it and prepared for it, she didn't. Her friends cannot understand, except (marginally) Anthony. But he and Stanford were not happy and presumably they could repair their marriage if they chose to.

Those who have lost their spouse or partner and cancer sufferers or survivors cling hard to their support groups. They feel that no one else can truly understand their suffering or loss.

But bringing it up every 5 minutes as a get out of jail free card R114? And for months? It's been at least 9 months since he died in-universe. There's grieving, and then there's obnoxious.

R114 I agree about Carrie saying that about losing her hubby. I also think it is, at this point, meant to be a little bit of dark humor.

I'm with R114. Doesn't bug me at all. But the writing is so bad, I get why it pisses people off. She's not actually living like she's grieving so referencing grief rings false. But so does the stupid apartment episode. They couldn't even find a real one (which is surprising given how mundane the bones of that apartment were.)

People bitch about this and bitch about that and there's lots to bitch about... I'd love to know what these writers are like. Where the hell are they getting their ideas from when they don't appear to come from Cynthia Nixon? What's wrong with their lives?

And Just Like That, we have another lot of midlife women presented as frankly bonkers. All women over 50 are apparently confused – ignorant about matters of race, of their own sexuality and mystified by podcasts. I am talking about the new Sex and the City reboot which, now halfway into its run, has not got any better than the first episode. The parent show was always a dubious fantasy, but its spin-off is so laughably bad, it has become my favourite hate-watch.

How do women who have lived for shopping, shoes and brunch age? Do they accrue wisdom and confidence? Not in Carrie Bradshaw’s world, which is full not of actual characters, but people who are basically packages of “issues”. Formerly criticised for being too straight and white, we now have this ghastly retread where “diversity” is everything and the actual chance to talk about ageing is lost. Spoiler alert: none of them has developed in any way at all. If anything, they have become more stupid.

Carrie, who was always annoying, is, at 55, still in daft tutus and huge heels and tapping out the odd article but still stands like a little girl. Toes together, head tilted. Having bagged “the one”, commitment-phobe Mr Big, she swapped her freedom for a walk-in wardrobe. Unfortunately, Mr Big overdid the Peloton and she is now a beautiful widow in a horrible fascinator.

The clothes that were once fun now look such an effort. In fact, it’s just as well she doesn’t seem to have a proper job. Killing Big off was the only smart thing the writers have done as the actor who plays him, Christopher Noth, is now facing allegations of sexual assault from three different women, which he denies.

The show in its heyday was a celebration of female friendship and frankness about sex but Samantha – voracious and shameless – is not in this series (clever Kim Cattrall!). Apparently, she moved to London because “sexy sirens in their 60s are still viable there!” What?

Actually, it would have been interesting to see what Samantha did post-cancer, post-menopause, in order to explore the libido of a 60-something single woman. I mean, it is still considered daring that Kate Winslet had casual sex at 45 in Mare of Easttown.

Each of the characters has now got a new black or ethnic minority best friend in some ridiculous set-ups. Miranda, formerly a high-flying lawyer, is flummoxed to find her new lecturer is black and says dumb things about her hair, but they become besties anyway. Charlotte finds an equally uptight black parent at her kids’ school. Carrie becomes friends with a super smart Indian estate agent and the next thing you know she is in a sari shop: “Not cultural appropriation but cultural appreciation,” she says. Cringe and the City.

Charlotte’s daughter does not want to be a girl any more and Miranda starts having a fling with Che, who is non-binary, Mexican, Irish, a bouncer and a comedian. Along the way, Miranda became an alcoholic but seems to have got over it in two episodes. I guess the lesbian sex (of course!) helped?

Carrie’s huge wealth is shown off in a spacious Succession-like apartment. Repulsive.

It’s easy to forget she is grieving as she floats about in huge heels after having a hip operation – not age-related, apparently – and then meets a decent guy on a dating app. Every middle-aged woman will tell you that dating apps are full of hot widowers. NOT.

Why does any of this flimflam bother me? Perhaps because I see midlife women all around me becoming ever more interesting and finding meaning in life beyond the quest for romance.

1/2

2/2

Most of us have thought about our sexuality, about difference, about identity because we have had to. We are not flummoxed demented creatures in a brave non-binary world.

Not all of us mourn no longer being the objects of male attention. We don’t hate younger women because we are the mothers of them. What we want is to be taken seriously and actually we know that all the HRT and Botox and tweaks don’t, in the end, fool anyone.

Midlife is not a problem to be solved, but a time of consolidating self-knowledge. Actually, the one binary that needs breaking down is the one about ageing gracefully or disgracefully: it’s all far more exciting and complicated than that.

One of Phoebe Waller-Bridge’s most impressive achievements was to write in her early 30s that Kristin Scott Thomas monologue about how the menopause is horrendous. “But then it’s magnificent, something to look forward to… you’re free! No longer a slave, no longer a machine with parts. You’re just a person, in business.” Pure fire.

All the shoes and all the dates and all the walk-in wardrobes look so empty compared with this. I listened to the wonderful writer Deborah Levy talking of her 60th birthday party in Paris. How absolutely alive she sounded, the complete opposite of the over-dressed and confused ghouls who, Just Like That, appear completely past it.

HBO: I beg you! LET PHOEBE WALLER BRIDGE WRITE THE ENTIRE SECOND SERIES!

R117 through R120 is the same person, and posts about 60 threads in a row in all these threads on AJLT. Get a life!

[quote] And Just Like That, we have another lot of midlife women presented as frankly bonkers.

It's a sitcom. I get really annoyed when people complain that sitcoms make women look crazy and stupid or make dads look crazy and stupid or make teenagers look crazy and stupid.

Sitcoms depend on crazy and stupid characters to create situations that are comical. They're not meant to and don't need to read like academic treatises on gender performativity or comparative studies of the intellects of men and women or the aged and the young. They're supposed to be silly and make you laugh. Bonkers gets laughs and you'd have to be an absolute idiot to watch any funny sitcom and apply the pratfalls and foolish mistakes of a character to an entire subpopulation of people.

R121 stalks. Presumably out of inferiority.

Use the block, Hyacinthe, as I have. xo.

And counter stalking, guess what R121 authored?

Yep: R4, our marching orders of what will and will not be allowed.

R122 and yet there are plenty of sitcoms that present midlife women who do not look crazy or stupid.

Mary Tyler Moore, Designing Women, Golden Girls did it---and something that brands itself as more sophisticated than those programs could not?

R125 Mary Tyler Moore was very young, just starting out her career. The middle-aged ones were Phyllis (crazy), Georgette (stupid) and Sue Ann (crazy adjacent). Ted was both crazy and stupid.

Suzanne Sugarbaker was crazy and at times was depicted as stupid. Bernice was old and crazy.

Designing Women today would be shown in midlife at 55-60 but they were shown as golden oldies in the 80s.

I find their behavior to be true to who they were in the original show.

Is it that much of a stretch to think that Miranda is bored with Steve and wants to fuck women? Or that Charlotte is a stereotypical boring Upper East Side Housewife? Or that Carrie is still a self absorbed asshole? Or that Anthony and Stanford (such a dumb pairing) didn’t work out?

They never really brought people of color into their circle on the original show, so of course these liberal white women act so stupid around them.

I don't recall seeing this mentioned, but it is the seventh thread, and I am not going all the way back through: apparently Steve's hearing loss is based on the actor's hearing loss. The actor has hearing aids, I don't recall seeing Steve wear them as a character, maybe that will be a plot point, or maybe Miranda can stop creaming over Che for two seconds and suggest that maybe he needs them.

Agree the crazy thing does not do it for me on AJLT. There could have been growth - with humour - of the characters, rather than the bumbling idiocy that has been portrayed thus far in AJLT.

I get that SATC was unique for it’s time: the fashion! the sex for women! NYC and glamour!

Now to continue in essentially the same vein with the exception of wokeness and really bad references and parodies to age seems the height of tone-deafness.

The world is in a different place: physically, psychologically, financially and topographically. That the characters continue on as wealthy caricatures just seems....sad.

I don’t know if I will watch further. I do think Kim Cattrall made a very wise decision. I also believe it was apparent on set what Chris another was really up to (if you believe some of the crew on SATC), so the whole “my wonderful husband died” throughout AJLT takes on a much darker tone for an alleged serial rapist. And Kristen Davis has had so much poor plastic surgery that I hold my breath while watching her enunciate....because sometimes she just doesn’t get it right.

Unfortunate follow-up series thus far.

R126, but they were comic supporting characters. The characters on AJLT are the "straight" characters. Carrie and Miranda (though Charlotte is debatable) are not the kookie friends. The tone of AJLT is more dramady than farce.

Ultimately, what we are talking about is not something that makes the show less "academically correct." These are issues that make the show less fun. SATC was silly and a fantasy, but you never felt like you had to turn off your brain to watch it because the characters were like people you knew in real life.

This one the characters feel fake.

R128, he referenced them in the first episode, I think, and was wearing them. You are right they wrote it in based on the actor's own hearing.

Che Diaz is hilarious! I wish “Check the Box” was a real Netflix comedy special!

I really wish that when Miranda first went to the new class, she would have gone in wanting to learn something new, and then ended up taking over the class, as she felt she knew more than the professor.

I was watching season 1 of SATC on E! This weekend. Such a fun show.

Can this whole phenomenon just....go away?????

They need to fire MPK and keep him away from this show. HE is the problem.

OK Gen X

R128 you can see them in the farmers market scene.

I’ve been rewatching the original and JFC Carrie is the worst. You are in your 30’s woman. STOP SHRIEKING.

Whoever upthread said that Evan Handler is a bad actor is totally spot on. He's a good writer, but a terrible actor.

He wrote two memoirs that are quite good, especially Time on Fire, his recollection of his ordeal with cancer. He adapted it into a solo theater piece for himself (or actually, I believe the show came first, then the book). He was so bad in the show, he couldn't even play himself convincingly.

I agree with what someone else earlier in the thread said - it feels like these characters were put into stasis at the end of the second movie and then restored and plopped into the modern world having learnt nothing and not grown at all.

They should do a spin-off of the spin-off, 'Samantha and the City', about Samantha's exploits in London without those losers. That would be awesome but I'm sure Kim would never do it!

[quote] I agree with what someone else earlier in the thread said - it feels like these characters were put into stasis at the end of the second movie and then restored and plopped into the modern world having learnt nothing and not grown at all.

Approaching this show like the Brady Bunch movies could've been hilarious.

R141 Oh shit that would be hysterical. I never understand why they don’t do more of that. Facts of Life is screaming for that treatment.

R140 But would the writers do the same thing to Samantha? In NYC, her friends were magically transported from 2008 to 2022 and bewildered by all the changes...so would Sam arrive in London having had no prior awareness that London existed, much less all the mess with Brexit and BJ?

[quote]Approaching this show like the Brady Bunch movies could've been hilarious.

You mean they didn't?

I love the idea of Samantha and the City. But with good writers. The problem is with this gang you'd get a show that's fifty per cent making a fool of a sixty year old slut and fifty per cent duck out of water as Samantha learns ketchup is red sauce or you don't tip at a pub (which inevitably ends in a blow job.) One's not funny and the other's been done to death.

Though it would be awesome to watch Sam casting side eye and a hint of a smile at the camera when a black cab speeds through a puddle - but misses her.

Interesting R121 because I have that person on ignore and it has to be for far worse than being obsessed with this show.

The Telegraph piece at R118 is not bad at all. Trying to pick up 18 years later with characters who haven't grown except in years and net worth and their eagerness to attach themselves to more diverse friends for show purposes or for ill-fitting good intentions doesn't make for good television.

The show should have restarted with no explanations and no apologies and characters headed forward instead of a catalog of lingering backward glances and bittersweet gauzy memories of when life was simpler than having to solve the wrongs of racial inequality by having some important Black friends as a dinner party centerpiece to announce that, despite all appearances of frivolousness, you really do care about important world issues.

Instead they bring back three of the four, the lot of them now addled by menopause and a few precious IQ points lighter. Instead of chasing after dick, they chase after the perfectly correct guest list, decide to turn complete their journey into being part of something by turning lesbian overnight, or buy an glittering white ocean liner of an apartment because at 56 she felt she had to say yes to her realtor on a random apartment she hated (yet had no idea what she wanted.)

Carrie was always going to be stupid Carrie, retreating to her retarded little ballerina tutu and crying when things got a little rough, so no suprise to her "advancement" over 18 years, which apparently centered around a wedding, an unlimited shoe budget, and buying a big apartment.

Charlotte the pretty one, who played at innocent by also worked against her own stereotype, the WASPy art historian is made over as a complete 6-year-old girl fussing about who's in and who's out on the birthday party list. She should have been shown as a partner in a gallery, a director of a museum board trying to diversify its collections, as someone who turned had moved on to something else after she had seen her children to an age where her time was her own again. But no, she's alternately the little girl fretting in a panic about her popularity ranking and a snappy menopausal bitch.

Miranda who always had her head mostly on her shoulders or could do in a second has degenerated into a walking embarrassment of mispokensinisms in her state of a-wokened do-goodism, which doesn't seem a real goal or a determination so much as window dressing. It's a good thing her professor doesn't have a young child or Miranda would have asked to touch her hair. Apparently she's abandoned all her practicality and (too) good sense in favor of being that stupid older woman in your college seminar who asks all the most ridiculous questions and hijacks your semester.

[quote]Why does any of this flimflam bother me? Perhaps because I see midlife women all around me becoming ever more interesting and finding meaning in life beyond the quest for romance.

Exactly. Instead of showing three women who adapted to what circumstances they had and pushed for something better, we get this sad display of arrested development, of people who went nowehere (except up in bank balances) and are somehow proud of it. Girl power!

R146.

LOL... I have R146 on block, too, so it must be a mutual loathing society.

I will not deny I post a lot. I am single, live alone, and pandemic limited right now. There are mostly really good posters on DL and this place is conversation and company. I love the exchange of idea and thoughts and POVs if they're grounded in intelligence, which is so often the case. It tells me "You have received 64560 WW votes and have posted 24509 replies to threads." I'd be nowhere near that, I reckon, but for COVID. I have no idea when the count dates from. I've been here since before I am Not Myself These Days.

Why has R146 got me blocked? Dunno. I have a very sharp tongue, no fear of putting it into words, and a low tolerance for low intelligence, hall monitors like R121, DL's sad porn addicts, and pointless bitchery where the bitch is evidently making herself feel better about herself, rather than making a point with a swipe of the claws. So maybe that solves the mystery, R146. You're one of those four.

What this show needs is Bridget Everett to shake things up.

In the original season Miranda did have her shit together in her professional life, but she was also frequently cringeworthy.

The old guy’s cum shooting into her eye during the tantric sex workshop; the time she mistakenly thought her neighbour from across the street was flirting with her so she flashed him, and countless of other examples.

Miranda used to be the smart one… and the one who was less frivolous and fashion-conscious. Frankly, I would have expected her to move on from Carrie a long time ago.

Now she’s the dumb one, and also prisoner to ridiculous outfits/wig. I don’t know who she is at all.

Of all the characters now, LTW looks the best (although hers is not my style).

Did Davis have a mini - stroke? Serious question. She slurs words and can’t do sssssssss.

[quote]or you don't tip at a pub (which inevitably ends in a blow job.)

Oh god, I can see it now: "I tell you what, how about [italic]you[/italic] give [italic]me[/italic] the tip?"

[quote]Did Davis have a mini - stroke? Serious question. She slurs words and can’t do sssssssss.

Wasn't she an alcoholic for many years? Could she be addicted to something again?

It's bad surgery.

I assume that Davis's speech impediment is either due to dental 'improvements' taking up too much space in her mouth or else possibly some kind of nerve damage to her face from injections or surgery.

Her lips are scarily humongous, so she probably got a squirt in the wrong spot and it screwed up her speaking ability. It's a thing that can happen.

—

Anyway, criticize away, but I am really surprised how entertaining the show is following absolutely abysmal and mindless movies.

Being back Skipper, maybe he can woe Miranda away from Che Diaz

The sex scene with Miranda and Che, I had to fast forward. Why did they turn Steve into such a loser? He acts like he has early dementia. I hope it turns out that he’s been having an affair for years.

Actually Steve having early dementia wouldn’t be surprising, as his mother also had dementia. But I don’t think the show is thinking that deeply.

Why do the stylists dress Charlotte with belts throughout AJLT - accentuating Kristin’s weight (gain)?

Really, this is what they should have done.

They should have made Carrie the new Samantha, hanging out with a new trio of gals...Seema could be one of them but the other two are definitely younger. The show would center on this new quartet. Carrie is a widow of course, looking for new love. And, Big left her an ok amount of money, but she's not insanely rich. It turns out he made some bad business deals and by the time he died, he wasn't a multi millionaire.

Miranda and Charlotte pop up once in awhile but are strictly recurring. And, Miranda should be divorced from Steve.

Samantha found true love with a rich Australian and lives Down Under.

Stanford and Anthony broke up. Stanford went to LA for work and fell in love with a new fella and ended up staying in LA. We see Anthony once in awhile but Carrie has a new gay in her life...someone much less awful than Stanford.

Aiden was murdered by a psychotic cannibalistic serial killer.

Miranda's softcore porn scenes with the weird, deeply unattractive Che, are truly torpedoing this reboot. Just like sJP degrading the OG when she became executive producer and turned her character into the Hot Girl instead of Everywoman, it's really clear that actors should have no part in determining script decisions.

Kristin looks great I don’t know what you swine are saying. I didn’t know she was an alcoholic, that’s sad.

I've changed my idea...the show focuses on Carrie (obviously; she is the central character) but it shows her in DIFFERENT friend circles, like in real life.

(Most people have different groups of friends that may or may not intermix much with each other).

Sometimes, Carrie is hanging out with Charlotte and Miranda (but not as much) but she also has a new friend circle with Seema and a couple other new sophisticated ladies, and another new circle with some younger gals where Carrie is the mentor figure. Each episode focuses on a different circle but sometimes the circles mix.

The only thing people would be interested in is the original four, more or less reduced to their original marital and financial status, striving to upgrade their lives, but now in their mid-50s. Surely there are groups of professional middle aged gal pals in NYC trying to find love.

Michal Patrick King hired a bunch of black and che-esque people to write on the show (they should have just written something new). The show is now a reflection of that disastrous writing room.

[quote]Michal Patrick King hired a bunch of black and che-esque people to write on the show

Samantha Irby may as well be Che, she put everything of herself into that character, down to her IBS.

I watched the most recent episode tonight. Surprisingly, I laughed a number of times. It was written by the same writer who did the Diwali episode, which was the best the series had done up to that point. That might be faint praise, but anyway, I am really shocked that I enjoy Carrie more in this than I have before. It helps that she wasn't wearing that stupid bun for most of the episode too. I enjoyed watching her and Charlotte, it's just the Miranda bit that has me rolling my eyes and not that interested in (although "I'm in a rom-com, Carrie!" was pretty cute). So yeah, one of the better episodes I'd say this most recent one is.

There are too many characters though, with not enough time to develop them. Sometimes they get to turn up for 15 seconds at most. I would actually like to see Charlotte more with Lily, and the most recent episode made that clearer.

I'm literally hysterical over the fact that you have all been screeching about what a "woke" disaster this show is, and how much you all hate it, and yet we are on THREAD FUCKING SEVEN and the season is, what, barely half over?

Remind me, what was the last show that attracted 3,768 posts worth of attention on Datalounge in LESS THAN TWO MONTHS TIME?

And we're not even done yet.

Whatever it is you racist bitches think you are accomplishing by screeching and flouncing hysterically (and inaccurately) about "wokism" ... well, it's not working. The proof is in the pudding.

Agreed, r169. The comments prove the Ches of this world right, how easy it is to get the haters all riled up and making them obsessed with something like woke or non-binary. It's like with the Kardashians, the haters and vocal critics keep that franchise as much alive as the fans.

[quote] Kristin looks great I don’t know what you swine are saying. I didn’t know she was an alcoholic, that’s sad.

Are we seeing the same Kirstin? We did not bring up “swine”, but it is interesting that you did, R164.

[quote] THREAD FUCKING SEVEN and the season is, what, barely half over?

Isn’t the season almost over?

Miranda will surprise Che in Cleveland and Che will tell her she's polyamorous. I doubt that Che is inclined to settle down.

Yep R173, it definitely seems like Miranda is not reading the signs well, but then at the same time, she also did ask Che if what she felt was real and Che said yes. Che also said they couldn't promise a traditional life, but Miranda was very clear that she wanted it to be the two of them together. Unless Che is stupid, they would've known to expand more on what they meant before sending someone off to divorce their husband.

R169 - what pudding?

The whole Miranda/Che thing seems like a male/husband storyline to me. Bored husband with wife who doesn't shag much anymore meets younger woman who "doesn't play by the rules" and bangs like crazy, so he starts shagging her and then leaves his wife and family.

When it’s two lezzies it’s brave and stunning. When it was your dad cheating on your mom, not so much.

Ew …It’s Che Diaz 🤢

Replace “we’re out of coffee “ with “Hey, it’s Che Diaz” in the scene from Airplane.

Carrie and now Miranda...the moral of the show is "Don't hate the cheater! Love the betrayer, forgive the betrayal."

I wonder if we were supposed to feel bad for mega-wealthy widow Carrie feeling betrayed by her dead husband leaving money to the ex-wife Carrie stole him from.

I wonder if we’ll ever see the young neighbor again. Did we need another character?

I haven't forgotten how important onscreen representation was when I was young. Ellen came out in 1997 and although she was a lesbian and didn't reflect me exactly, it felt important. Will & Grace came out in 1998 and suddenly everyone in my life, at work and at school, wanted to know me and was asking annoying questions trying to understand what this exotic gay thing is all about. I bought videotapes of Queer as Folk (UK) from eBay and I saw Beautiful Thing. All that added up to giving me confidence to be myself with a lot less self-consciousness because I felt some kind of revolution and I felt less alone.

That may sound hyperbolic but it is true.

So when I see a show set in NYC that only ever had white actors introducing people of color and different types of sexualities, I am all for it.

Yes, I totally agree that story comes first and it should be good enough to air, but I'm also OK with wedging in some representation of under-represented groups to make seeing and hearing them normal so we can move on with integration and acceptance and hopefully get some great stories with everyone later on.

I want Miranda killed off at this point.

R182, I absolutely agree… the show did the right thing with bringing in characters of all types. What I didn’t appreciate is how they were shoe-horned in, and how some of them seem like charicaturs, but now that the show is well into the season, they’ve become more integrated into the story telling. From the beginning, my main beef is that I didn’t want a dramedy, I wanted more of the previous feeling of the original show. But I acknowledge that others might not feel like that.

Steve and Miranda were never a good match. Steve seemed much happier with his b&t girlfriend.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Anthony is just disgusting. In what universe is it ok for a man to tell three mid-50s women at lunch how he shit his pants and about his sleazy sexual encounters?

My guess is that we're gong to hear that the writer's room was a mess (with MPK stirring the pot) once this catastrophe has ended. The whole thing could have worked with fewer, better developed characters and less in the way of discarded plot lines like Miranda's drinking.

Of course Che will break Miranda's heart because she has no desire to commit---she's Miranda's Big and this show has no original ideas.

Yes R188 Samantha Irby referred to Che as her Mr. Big in the AJLT Writer's Room Podcast. Yuck.

Will Cynthia Nixon allow Miranda's character to be rejected though? I'm not sure.

Was this episode 8? Are we nearing the end?

I guess they shot these episodes somewhat in isolation? I wonder how shocked they are to be getting such negative feedback.

They'll just rationalize it. After achieving the second film and that MPK interview with the NYT it seems evident they don't take criticism on board.

[quote] I mean, it is still considered daring that Kate Winslet had casual sex at 45 in Mare of Easttown.

Only to people who were hyping Mare Of Easttown to be some brave and original view of a strong single mom in her 40s (it wasn’t).

[quote]HBO: I beg you! LET PHOEBE WALLER BRIDGE WRITE THE ENTIRE SECOND SERIES!

She rewrote Miranda into Fleabag by making the lead character sexual rather than prudish, treading the careful line between relatability (embarrassing sex - she cheats with on her BBF who DIES!) and aspirational (a sexy priest breaks his vows for her!) but it’s not exactly great writing.

What standup comic ever prowled around the stage asking “who wishes they could fuck me?”.

Talk about begging for rotten tomatoes.

[quote] Will Cynthia Nixon allow Miranda's character to be rejected though? I'm not sure.

Yes, is she wants an Emmy.

Knowing most drinkers, Miranda would be more likely to choose a crate of White Zin over both Steve and Cheryl.

Women who turn to heavy drinking in their 30s often continue relying on it in their 50s. It’s real real needs to be explored more, hopefully once Miranda is dumped.

Ditto Carrie’s grief.

I actually had a Che and Miranda dream last night.

Miranda was lecturing Che about needing to lose weight while Miranda was doing Che’s laundry.

Miranda finds a receipt for brunch that she wasn’t at and sees 2 orders of coffee and 2 orders of pancakes. And Miranda screams “why the fuck did you need to order TWO servings of pancakes?”

R184 The only one who feels like a stereotype to me is Che. She's effectively a bulldyke type who calls herself nonbinary.

Charlotte's daughter is believable to me for the most part. She's a tomboy, yes, but that's to be expected IMO. The only thing I find questionable about her character is how self-content and well adjusted she is. Maybe that isn't unusual at all today because, for example, of the support she gets at school, which I also find credible. I'm 43 and have no kids so I don't really have any insight into that. But the girl knows her mom has always treated her as a girly girl and I really would expect at the very least awkwardness if not a lot of anxiety about coming out, particularly given Charlotte's forced acceptance and obvious discomfort. But for a sitcom, it's a fine portrayal.

As I said above, I find Miranda's late-in-life awakening, if not credible, then certainly more credible than Samantha's. Just because Samantha was a slut doesn't mean she's open to slutting with anyone at all and that's basically how they showed her accidentally entering into a lesbian relationship. Miranda has always been repressed, type-AAA, focused on career, awkward with men, prefers company of her girlfriends. Plenty of women apparently get to their 50s and realize, holy crap, I'm a homo! So I can suspend disbelief for that one. That doesn't excuse the graphic fingering and barking in the kitchen.

I personally LOVE all the new women of color. They are my favorite of all the characters. I particularly love Seema and the professor. The prof's singular storyline focus on fertility is a little annoying, but I love the actress's performance of her and I think she is interesting in her authoritative interactions with her class, her burgeoning friendship with Miranda, and her fawning over her husband with obvious insecurity.

Seema is awesome. I just really like her. She's got the same kind of aggressive energy Sam had but obviously an opposite outlook on relationships. Like the professor, I like that she is strong in one way and desperate in another. Most of all, I love the performance.

Charlotte's other new friend...she doesn't have much of a storyline but I love her energy. She seems so sweet and genuine and I can't quite figure her out. She has authority over the other women because of her social standing, obviously, but she seems like she could not be more down to earth and certainly is not a mean girl. I want a lot more of her.

I want all the peripheral friends to integrate, though. The central triad are not quite meeting expectations, and if the point of inventing new characters is inclusivity, then they need to include them, not just have them orbiting with each white woman having one friend of color.

I do agree that the show fails in its depictions of gay men. They are still from the Will & Grace era. I kind of like Mario Cantone, but I really hate that his whole character continues to be so horny and sex obsessed. He's in his 50s now. When I was young, I wondered and worried I'd be horned up for the rest of my life because I had a lot of interests when I was a kid that were displaced by uncontrollable sexual urges. I'm 43 now and it has waned a lot and I feel better balanced and relieved by that. Cantone is 62. His character needs to find something better to define him.

And the fucking gay creator of this show needs to meet some gay men of substance. I really hope his gay characters don't reflect the company he keeps. That would be tragic.

[quote] Yes, is she wants an Emmy.

Interesting point. Everyone on DL agreed that the final season of POSE was an absolute disaster with abysmal TV writing, lackluster direction and subpar acting. Yet the subject matter and the casting got it tons of awards. Based on that, it's likely AJLT will win awards, and likely Sara Ramirez.

I hope Sarita Choudhury gets an Emmy nom. I find her so compelling as a realtor I want to punch and a person I want to hug.

[quote]but it’s not exactly great writing.

Granted, but Fleabag was consistently funny, extremely well received and better than this junk in pretty much every respect. These writers aren't good enough reinvent something as well established as Sex and the City.

When someone's going to win an Emmy, it better be Sarah Jessica Parker (for that moment where Carrie discovers Big is dying), or the one winning an Emmy will be treated worse than Kim Catrall on the second season.

R202 The moment that emotionally affected me the most (I cried!) was when Carrie was confronted in the cafe by Natasha, and then Natasha left and Carrie had a sudden and subtle release of everything she had been holding back as she wondered whether John was still in love with Natasha. It was so well acted that it caught me by surprise and tears started flowing.

People are really mean to Sarah Jessica Parker and I feel bad for her. I don't think she deserves it. The only thing I have against her is her highly questionable circle of friends, but I think she is an extremely talented and hardworking actress, she tries really hard to make her work significant when she can, and she seems like a kind and sweet person offscreen. How she can be so tight with Andy Cohen, who I have to imagine must be downright cruel off camera given how mean he is on camera, I can't imagine.

Regarding the Kim Cattrall drama, I don't get it and I think it's 90 percent media made. Yes, Cattrall called out Parker for wishing her well after her brother died after Parker hadn't spoken to Cattrall in a long time, but I don't know what to think about that. All my life, I have heard actors talk about how weird their job is because they get so emotionally embroiled with fellow actors on set or stage and they become best friends or lovers, and then they are onto the next project and never talk to those people again. We watch the shows and expect them to be family. Maybe SJP just saw Cattrall as a coworker and, as we do with most coworkers, got along as well as possible with her on set and then she moved on, but genuinely wished her well when she saw the news about her brother. I have 100 former coworkers who I never speak with but definitely would send them a message if I saw their loved one died. Cattrall complained about that and said that she felt alienated on set, but she also has basically said she has no ill will and she just wanted to move on from playing Samantha, period. Cattrall talks about working on stage, including doing Shakespeare, and after watching several interviews with her, it seems to me she is just tired of that role and wants to do new and more challenging things. That's her right. It's bizarre that people have demonized her for not playing a horny old lady until the day she dies.

After this latest episode I officially loathe Miranda. The full frontal from the hot downstairs neighbor was a nice touch. Carrie has great chemistry with Seema and I’m glad they finally gave Lily a storyline.

I didn't see the second movie because the first made me embarrassed for all involved. Are the actors' kids played by the same child actors who played them in the second movie?

The thing with SJP and KC is just ... business. Of course, they are not friends, but you would think they are professionals in their own way working so long in the industry. But when you mix ego with business, a lot of conflict and resentment comes to surface. SJP was / is the star of both Sex & the City and And Just Like That, and she was able to score herself a producer credit for Sex & the City early on, making sure that no "ensemble" cast dynamic (like on Friends) could happen during salary negotiations. On Sex & The City, Kim wanted more money (which, I think is fair since she made Samantha such a beloved icon) for herself and the others (Cynthia and Kristin), but I guess Sarah refused to see the others as her equal when it came to money and pecking order status. I don't think SJP is a bad person, it's just that she had kind of a rough childhood (her family relied on her to bring in the money from her acting gigs) and she probably is a bit paranoid about being taken advantage of and probably in her mind she deserves all the credit for Sex & The City being a success.

Another episode, another painfully unfunny "comedy" routine from Fat Ass.

When the show launched originally, it was "Wow, movie star Sarah Jessica Parker is doing a TELEVISION show?! It co-stars a girl who was on Melrose Place for a while and two unknowns."

I mean, plainly put, that was the buzz. Her star power did drive attention at the beginning. Samatha was the breakout star, but all the characters and actresses were strong enough that it was seen as an ensemble.

Carrie always was the narrator and there was no question based on the writing that she was the central figure.

I agree it would have been magnanimous of her to demand equal pay for all, but I think Parker's name drove the initial success and from the beginning to the end, the narrative was "Carrie and her three friends."

I feel bad for Sara Ramirez. It would be tough to get so much negative feedback (unless you were playing a villain, I guess.)

R209: She's on course to be considered a villain.

David Eigenberg was really good during the breakup scene. And I liked Carrie’s new neighbor. I hope we see more of her.

That breakup scene is heartbreaking. Especially if you watch it back to back with some eps from the original show. It’s like seeing the long-term outcome of a tragic relationship mistake. It’s hard not to see it as two lives ruined.

Or maybe I’m just depressed.

[quote] Or maybe I’m just depressed.

I clicked on WitWisdom for you if that makes you feel better!

I can see Che wanting to have Miranda as a fuckbuddy. I do not buy at all that they want to settle down with Miranda in ANY kind of commitment.

Maybe Kristin Davis can just wear a large FUBU puffy jacket all of next season to hide the few extra pounds.

I'm thinking a lot about why I just felt nothing during that Pride scene that opened the recent episode, except maybe wishing it would hurry up and be over. Yeah, Che is a terrible comedian, but years ago I would've loved any Pride scene shown, and now it's just like "yawn, same old same old" or something, except not even "same old", it's nowhere near as affirming as they can be. I suppose a lot has changed in quite a short time, we have so many of our rights now, where I live at least, and that gives a lot of us time to focus on more than just being gay now. I dunno what I'm saying exactly, but I was intrigued by my own lack of interest and almost annoyance by the Pride scene. Maybe it's all just because of Che, not sure. I hate that character.

I feel like they are foreshadowing Harry’s death and it’s making me nervous.

Poor Harry, they could've gotten him a more realistic looking prosthetic.

Ep 8 was good, a lot more like the original SatC. Carrie was a lot more likeable than in the earlier episodes. I can't help thinking Miranda is a moron breaking up her home for a brief relationship with someone she hardly knows and with whom she has almost nothing in common. I

It is truly said - there is no fool like an old fool.

If I were Miranda, I would rather be alone than be with Steve. Steve has always been an overgrown child. Nice guy, though, so you don’t want to see him suffer. He was right when he said theirs has been a sad relationship all along.

Some thoughts about Episode 8:

1) The Pride rally left me cold and maybe that says more about me than the scene. I felt left out, like none of those characters was talking about me, and like the poster above, years ago gay inclusion made me happy. This scene did not. And perhaps that's because...

2) Che is just a horrid character, all around. The writers were clearly trying to salvage some sympathy for her/them/ whatever by having Che believe Miranda was in an open relationship all this time, which defies credulity. And we're told repeatedly how charismatic this obnoxious, weed-huffing bull dyke is, but we never see any evidence of that. Plus, Che is breaking up a couple that many of rooted for 20 years ago and therefore, we don't love Che. We resent this shit out of it.

3) I'll bet not one of the current writers is married with children. We haven't had one scene - not one - of Miranda questioning how Steve or their son would feel if she were to leave. Once again, that defies all reason. Personal aside: I ditched my long-term for a "Che" many years ago and I agonized over it for quite a long time first. Spoiler alert: it didn't go the the way I wanted it to, which leads me to...

4) Miranda's alcoholism. My guess is that this blows up in Miranda's face, as it should. Che is not ready to settle down, particularly with Miranda, now being portrayed as a daffy old lady. (IRL, a Che-type would have zero interest in Miranda). I'm hoping the writers are laying the groundwork for Miranda to realize her huge mistake and go crawling back to Steve, who has now said he won't rally for them as a couple any longer and sticks to his guns. In which case, Miranda hits the sauce again, big-time.

Because if not, her drinking feels like a dropped storyline, instead of something that could be much meatier.

But I don't have much faith. This show has glimmers of what it could be and what it once was, but as someone upthread opined, what we're seeing onscreen feels like an untethered writers room in turmoil.

Normally if a Miranda ends up with a Steve, it is because he is the last man standing, ie, the only one who offered to take her on. But Miranda had a great relationship with Dr Robert, with whom she would have had a fighting chance of a successful marriage. But she ditched him for Steve, who watched Scooby Doo...it made no sense.

[quote] Michal Patrick King hired a bunch of black and che-esque people to write on the show (they should have just written something new). The show is now a reflection of that disastrous writing room.

Welcome to the new Hollywood, with strict quotas for "BIPOC" representation (i.e. no white men).

I think Miranda had a need to feel superior / in control in her relationship. She was more of a peer with Dr Robert. That probably scared her. Steve she could bully and boss around.

In coming attractions it looks like Steve is painting a new apartment. I would have made Miranda leave.

I heart R221. Nothing to add except I'd counter what it could be is an untethered writers room with too much determination to be diverse, so if anybody wanted to say 'wait a minute', they'd be afraid to. They have great characters in LTW, Seema and Naya but Che is sucking up all the screen time and oxygen. Nobody wants to see Miranda finger banged by a furnace in Gaston drag.

I went down the rabbit hole of Rotten Tomatoes (where the current ratings are 59% from critics and 29% from viewers.) This Salon piece was great, asd was the Rolling Stone review. There's no way HBO avoids this and my hope is HBO will intervene to requires improvements and adjustments for a less force fed second season.

"Nearly a quarter of a century later, "And Just Like That" affirms that Carrie, Charlotte and Miranda failed to mature into women any sane person would want to spend time with, let alone to grow up to be.

Eventually Miranda asks Carrie why they never talk about Samantha. "It is kind of like she's dead," she observes.

Not to us it isn't. And with a few more scenes it becomes abundantly obvious that Samantha had her reasons even if King and the other writers don't intend that to be the case. Watch the remaining trio in action, and it becomes easy to picture Samantha realizing that she had spent decades brunching, clubbing and traveling with a group of unbearable people, and finally deciding life's too short to put up with them a minute longer.

Don't worry about Carrie, Miranda and Charlotte. By all accounts they're living wonderful Samantha-free lives and are all the more boring for it."

My downstairs neighbor's life is ruined and she's miserable, but she said I was cool! Yay for me!

Che wouldn't even be considered hot in Cleveland.

Much, much better episode. But yeah, I’m not down at all, to use the show’s lingo, with Che and Miranda. Although Che was great at the beginning, telling Miranda off. I like Che (hah I’m probably the only one), I just wish she weren’t such a cliche.

"I just wish she weren’t such a cliche."

She literally is the last word in "cliche".

Episode eight was sort of a hodgepodge that brings together a lot of things - good and bad - that we've talked about. A few points:

1. Che-Miranda discussion at the beginning. I get Che not wanting to deal with being a "homewrecker" and expects people to live their lives honestly, but come on, there's no way she didn't know that Miranda hadn't told Steve. She seems like she gets a thrill out of being sanctimonious. But, like I said last week, even if Miranda had told Steve and was "living honestly," I think Che would get bored with her and eventually cast her aside. Which is fine, since I expect Che to just be Miranda's transition person, not life partner. Carrie's question - "do you know how much Che wants you?" - well placed. Despite Che saying she's in love with Miranda, I think she won't commit. She'll be annoyed when Miranda shows up in Cleveland and probably with someone else. Che still annoys me, but Miranda even more.

2. The school girl "you still blow Harry?" reaction from Miranda and Carrie (moreso Miranda). Jesus. Yes, sex lives fade, but some long-term couples actually do have sex.

3. I like Carrie and Seema together. Both wealthy, both single, the way they met each other - seems like a friendship that would develop.

4. Carrie looked good most of the episode.

5. "DICK!"

6. Charlotte's meltdown about Lily and subsequent fretting was about as Charlotte as it gets.

7. It was PURE ridiculousness, but I loved Carrie's old hag chic outfit the morning after busting into her neighbor's apartment.

8. The Miranda-Steve break-up scene. Not sure how that came across. She was being honest, but sort of selfish? Sort of short shrifted the whole thing considering how long their relationship was.

9. I sort of like the downstairs neighbor dynamic, but where can they go with it? It's yet another new character, and only two episodes left.

10. Pure nostalgia, but I like the callback to Carrie's dress from Paris.

Tell me Steve ripped her a new one? I haven't seen it yet.

Not yet, R232. We'll see if he does in subsequent episodes.

I hope they spend a little time on the drama of her throwing a family overboard. Her husband, her kid... that's gotta be something. That's good stuff. But I suppose on her journey there is only the thrill of finger banging.

I really enjoyed this episode—it’s the first one I didn’t fast forward through the cringy parts. It was mostly funny, and the serious stuff was well done. If this is a portent of things to come, it’s a good sign. And I think Che should throw Miranda overboard. I don’t know—I really don’t like Miranda through this plot line. Steve was right, he has her pegged. She’s changed her mind multiple times about him but he’s always been there for her.

For those blaming this mess on the new writers, it's not like the old ones are doing any better. Last week's was written by the same writers behind the original's "Pick-a-Little, Talk-a-Little," aka the "He's Just Not That Into You" episode, whose lessons they completely forgot by having Che not contact Miranda (even if they didn't get her texts, they could have reached out to her...but didn't) yet still end up somehow being interested in her (despite their behavior clearly saying otherwise). Because Che is a tool and most of this has no relation to believable human behavior.

[quote]And I think Che should throw Miranda overboard.

So long as she falls in after her and they are both lost at sea.

I actually liked this episode. It had more of the old feel to it. I do agree that it seems like they are building to Harry having a heart attack or some other health scare. My only wish is that we get an entire episode in without having to see Che, but because Miranda's adventures in finger banging seem to be the main theme I doubt we will. Miranda would be better paired with that butch she was standing next to in the beginning.

I liked the episode too. I actually like the series, even though I understand a lot of the criticisms and agree with some of them. I just really disliked the first two episodes. The rest has been much better to varying degrees. Not a great show, but enjoyable with some nice high points. The biggest criticism I agree with is that it doesn't seem to know what it wants to be or do - so it just seems like this huge mishmash that really isn't coherent. That aspect has improved over the season but it's not all the way together yet. That said, I've enjoyed many of the individual elements that are part of the huge mishmash.

First the pro’s-I’m really enjoying the Carrie Seema relationship. I think it’s delightful and they have a real chemistry. The story with the neighbor downstairs felt very classic SATC. It was a good story and I hope they bring the character back. Also nice to see Evan Handler’s big cock. Who knew?

Now the con’s-Miranda was the most relatable character on the show and they have absolutely destroyed her and any credibility moving forward. She’s was a smart successful partner in a law firm and they reduced her to as she said some character in a rom-com. It’s appalling. And Steve is 55 not 85. I’m 58 and I have some hearing loss, but I also live I a big city married have an active social life and am out in the world. Steve is not a typical 55 year old in a metropolitan city and it’s insulting. It’s one thing to try and find your way later in life but it’s another to completely destroy two beloved character just for story. I hate hate hate this story and if nothing else I hope Miranda gets exactly what she deserves.

R240, seriously--Handler's dick was a prosthetic. Davis was touching it in the moment when the daughter burst in; it was fully in her hand. No way they ask a man to let his co-star handle his dick or a woman to handle her co-star's, especially these days.

If they wanted to do a show about representation I'm starting to wish they'd done a show without the characters people watch to see.

If the Gay Rights movement had been started by and left in the hands of people like Che, homosexuality would still be illegal.

Wonder if they’re building up to having the three leads single if there’s a second season. Carrie and Charlotte widowed and Miranda divorced.

Everyone's making jones about Che but no one is laughing about her Ram-beau.

R208 When the show launched originally, it was "Wow, movie star Sarah Jessica Parker is doing a TELEVISION show?! It co-stars a girl who was on Melrose Place for a while and two unknowns."

Uh, NO ONE on the planet said that. SJP was a never a "movie star". She was an actress who was a supporting player in a big hit (Footloose), and a supporting player in L.A. Story where she got great reviews. Honeymoon in Vegas was modestly successful. She was a supporting player in two Tim Burton movies...yes, she was in Hocus Pocus which was a huge flop when it came out. Oh, and a small role in The First Wives Club. She wasn't exactly A list leading actress talent. She really needed Sex and the City.

And, Kim Cattrall was basically a 10 year older version of SJP....lots of roles, including some major hits like Porkys and Police Academy (terrible movies but hits) and a major supporting role in a Star Trek movie. Oh, and the female leads in Mannequin and Big Trouble in Little China. And, a good role in a bomb, Bonfire of the Vanities. And, decades of TV work. So, not exactly an unknown.

Nixon wasn't a huge name but she was known for her extensive B'way career....and, a small but good role in the Oscar winning Amadeus.

Davis only had Melrose Place as a substanial credit. By far, the least known of the 4.

No one was shocked that SJP was doing a TV show....her film career wasn't great and she was smart enough to realize it was a good part in an HBO series. Good exposure for her.

I had never heard of Cynthia Nixon or Kristin Davis when SATC started.

R241 No it wasn’t fully in her hand. Go back and watch. She undoes his belt unzips and his cock is out. Her hand is near his dick but not on it.

r248, I did rewatch just to be sure. Here's a screenshot for you. No way that's his actual dick.

And just like that,we found out how Charlotte fell in love with Harry.

Harry gets a big dick and Steve gets hearing aids.

The rich get richer....

Is Steve's voice an acting choice or does the actor actually speak that way? His voice is...unique.

Miranda is a self-involved ass. No wonder her son is a self-involved ass.

R216 Pride lost all its meaning when every large corporation on LinkedIn started rainbow-ifying itself in June. It means nothing now.

It occurred to me recently while reading complaints on DL about gay baiters and gay-for-pay pornstars that they're just individual versions of corporations, beginning with Absolut and Ikea, that began pandering to gay people as soon as they figured out there was a profit in gaining the loyalty of people with disposable incomes.

The lighting on this show is all screwed up---Kristin Davis looks nice at times(mostly in medium shots and out doors) but in this episode, she looked like an old lady, with old an old lady neck. She is pear shaped and her clothes do make her seem fat if their too form fitting (and sometimes they are)

I had a little something in my early 50s that I never saw coming after a bit of a drought. It never went anywhere because the guy didn't want a commitment and whatever my fantasies were, I didn't let them get the better of me. The thing about age is that you don't act like a 12 year old girl if you really are a grown-up. It also seemed odd that Miranda was so inappropriately dressed for the Pride rally (too dressed up)--she also seemed to have a different wig. Her outfits seem ever worse in this episode and she looks older than in the past. Steve is clearly ok with the status quo---he probably never grew-up with the expectation that life would always be fun.

The Carrie and her downstairs neighbor thing seems like a rehash of Samantha and trans hookers, except she seems fairly deluded about what can happen and she's super intrusive. The neighbor seems like yet another cartoon. She's even given what Chuck Lorre described as "a moment of shit", telling Carrie she's cool. That was what they had to write into "Cybil" scripts because Shepherd couldn't live without unearned adoration.

The shows shot outside in location seem to have more of the old show's feel, but that can't carry bad writing.

I don't think Davis looks overweight at all. She has done weird things to her face, but her figure looks totally normal or even thin for her age. And considering she looks that way on camera, she is probably very thin in real life.

What am I missing about Harry? He was going to have a colonoscopy, but how else is he being set up for a medial crisis? And if the writers were going to kill him off, wouldn't they be more apt to do it with an accident or something? Following Big's death by heart attack immediately with another husband's death from illness seems like a choice most writers wouldn't make, although it's certainly something life would throw at people in reality.

I don't think they're going to kill Harry off. I think all this chatter about his health is Charlotte having observed what happened with Big and projecting it onto her own life in a "what if" scenario.

One gauge of equality is whether marginalized characters have to be depicted as likable heroes or they can be depicted as despicable (e.g., flawed human beings). Cheers to the writers for having the nerve to make the gender nonconforming one the most despicable.

[quote]Pride lost all its meaning when every large corporation on LinkedIn started rainbow-ifying itself in June. It means nothing now.

Corporations have much to answer for, but the idea that they stole Pride seems a reach. Organizers who wanted to please everyone and stand for nothing stole Pride. Label-intolerant, non-binary, neither this nor that activists who made gay men and lesbians their enemy stole Pride.

The anemic display in the AJLT, with all the enthusiasm and meaningfulness of stumbling upon a funnel cake stand sums up the generic, pointlessness, though for realism everyone there in that day school fair sized crowd should have have been tuned to Grindr or texting instead of the comedian.

I also think it's because Evan Handler looks a bit sickly because he was pretty sick in real life. I honestly don't think they'd kill off two spouses.

R259, I noticed in this episode especially his eyes are very red-rimmed.

Has anything leading up to this episode provided an inkling of a hint that Brady would be at a pride rally or whatever that mess was? What was the point? Miranda sneaks off in fear of being seen, but minutes later strolls up with coffee for the headliner of the event. Did Brady magically disappear the second Che’s set was over?

Has his cancer returned?

R261, it was just a plot device, it seems, to get Miranda to slink off, thus resulting in the confrontation with Che.

R258 I didn't say corporations "stole" pride. I said it lost its meaning by the time it had been appropriated for commercial purposes by corporations that cannot have gay/LGBTQIAA2S+ pride. At least as I always saw it.

I always thought of gay pride as a rebellious showing of "I am gay! I am here!" and "We are gay! We are here!" It's something only human beings can claim.

To me, AT&T and Comcast and Amazon and Microsoft bearing the rainbow for Pride is like if instead of being told little-known facts during black history month, corporations tethered their logos to hip hop and negro spiritual music or dressed up their logos like Maya Angelou and Harriet Jacobs. Just an obviously superficial, clumsy and frankly patronizing show of solidarity.

“ If the Gay Rights movement had been started by and left in the hands of people like Che, homosexuality would still be illegal.”

The show is ridiculous. But assholes like Che are everywhere. The problem is Che’s written as an uninteresting asshole. And that’s down to the writers.

Oh I realize that R263, it was terrible execution and much like so many other things tho season, was never mentioned again.

Most parents would have a “why are my teenage son and his gf at a pride rally” moment.

Kristin Davis is on Andy Cohen's show and she just said it was a prosthetic penis and "it was impressive."

I had sort of the opposite reaction. Brady, raised in NYC by, I assume, liberal parents who exposed him to diversity, including LGBT people. Plus he's part of a younger generation that has more out gay and "other" friends and acquaintances. So, I wouldn't think Miranda would be that shocked that he might go to a Pride rally. Yet, she still didn't expect to actually run into him. Sort of like I wouldn't be surprised if my friends went to Target, but I still don't expect to see them there most of the time.

[quote]Cheers to the writers for having the nerve to make the gender nonconforming one the most despicable.

R257 I GUARANTEE it wasn't on purpose

The previews make it seem that the Che-Miranda thing will get dragged out further, with Che claiming love but not looking like it.

So, when Che was telling off Miranda at the opening, I actually really liked her. That may be because she was telling off Miranda. Because the rest of them is so tiring (the plural them, not the Che them.) In the hands of good writers this would blow up in Miranda's face but I suspect these writers can only do your truth conquers all. Miranda was always a hard character to like. I don't root for her at all now. Nixon plays her so oddly, tics and grimaces and frantic. She's authentic, but you wouldn't want to know her.

Now you will really kill me. I found Bradshaw great and likeable the whole episode. Still felt like too much going on and that was without the prof and LTW.

I enjoyed the penis, and Miranda breaking up with ghastly Steve. I didn't enjoy the fact she's dumping him for Mirtha Dumptruck, but it is what it is.

We so need Blair Underwood to be LTW's brother and have a dick measuring contest with They.

I really hope they don’t kill off Harry.

[quote] The only thing I have against her is her highly questionable circle of friends, but I think she is an extremely talented and hardworking actress, she tries really hard to make her work significant when she can, and she seems like a kind and sweet person offscreen

R203 your entire post is fanfiction positing SJP as a fairy princess who can so no wrong.

Her position on the two SATC movie posters as the solo star followed by a failure of a third movie or a new series to eventuate for 11 years until this pale shadow of a show tells you everything you need to know about her delusions and the way she tried to wield power she didn’t have.

Why are we not talking more about the hot guy fucking the downstairs neighbors and his REAL penis shot??

He was just ok looking and penis shots are everywhere. They're not all that uncommon anymore.

What was nice about it was that it was obviously real. So many onscreen dicks today are obvious prosthetics (like Harry's). But that was obviously a real dick, which made it novel.

True, R277, but I'd still think, like R276, that it would warrant a few mentions.

In the original series, Charlotte had an aversion to giving blow jobs. She lost a potential partner because she would not give him a blow job.

[quote]I agree it would have been magnanimous of her to demand equal pay for all, but I think Parker's name drove the initial success and from the beginning to the end, the narrative was "Carrie and her three friends."

The show wasn’t “Carrie and her three friends” as the failed movies and the attempt to replace Kim with 5 different characters has shown. It was always 4 not-young women looking for love while living life in the city. They were 4 pillars and 4 types. Samantha as Aphrodite the goddess of love, Miranda as Athena the goddess of wisdom, Charlotte as Hera the mother and Carrie as the human scribe.

Sarah Jessica Parker was cast as Carrie because she had a high profile, having been in Footloose and LA Story and Hocus Pocus. But let’s not pretend she was Julia Roberts or Sandra Bullock or Meg Ryan or even Nicole Kidman in 1998. She wasn’t.

R280, she learned her lesson. Lol. Plus Charlotte always struck me as someone who would give more sexually to a husband or serious BF than a random guy - which is the opposite of many people. She values love and intimacy and wouldn't be as uptight with a guy she trusts and loves.

NOPE

You’re right r282. Charlotte rimmed Trey, remember. She associated sex with love.

[quote] In the hands of good writers this would blow up in Miranda's face but I suspect these writers can only do your truth conquers all.

Miranda giddily heading off to the airport after not really hearing Che telling her that they don’t do conventional relationships is clearly setting her up to see Che face first into some other pussy. Or girl dick.

Hands up who wants to see Miranda throw out her back in a throuple?

[Hand stays by side.]

I think it will be good for Miranda to realize she's not gonna be with Che. Then she REALLY has shit to figure out. She has to explain to Steve, "I still don't want to be with you," and even if she falls back into her pattern of looking to return to him like Steve talked about, this time Steve doesn't want her back. Then she has to move on and see if everything she though she wanted to give up and everything she claimed she wanted out of life is still the same after the glow of Che is gone. Does she really want to be with women or was it just a Che-centric thing.

[quote]But perhaps Che’s flatness is also kind of the point. In a show that is largely about three wealthy, wildly out-of-touch white women slowly coming to terms with their own cultural irrelevance, Che is intended to serve as a representation of a rapidly evolving society that is leaving these women behind. And whether by design or not, the writers’ inability to fully breathe life into the character, or render them anything beyond a series of traits loosely associated with “woke” queer people, is one of the purest crystallizations of that mission.

I didn’t see any dicks at all. Maybe they were cut out of the Australian version?

Carrie dear, if you want sleep, move back to a rich person building. Young people stay up late. You're not 30 anymore honey!

Miranda must be bipolar. Even the wig is getting more frazzled. All she can think about is Che, Che, Che. I think Sara did a good job with the "breakup" scene, but it defies logic that she wouldn't ask questions. I've slept with plenty of men in open relationships. I always ask what their rules are. And it baffles me, that Carrie and Charlotte, who have known Steve for over 20 years, who watched their kid grow up, would be so cool and calm and whatever about what Miranda's doing. Not even a "What about Steve? What about Brady?"

And of course, the show keeps TELLING us how amazing and charismatic Che is, but they don't SHOW shit.

I saw both of them R287, are you watching on Binge?

I watched via Foxtel but didn’t record or watch live, I downloaded it. So maybe that’s why I missed on on peen.

So Miranda is blowing up her life and Carrie refuses to accept she's not 30 anymore. Must

So powerful!

Nothing about Brady (granted we’ve seen very little of him) seems the type who is going to pride rallies with his girlfriend. He screams stoner who sits at home and plays video games 24/7.

Dont straight guys generally just go where the girlfriend wants?

And Miranda, who can't even exit a crowd without being extremely awkward. She must have a brain tumor.

Maybe Che won't go along with it, but why doesn't Miranda just change the terms of her marriage and tell Steve she wants to have lovers on the side? He's so passive he probably wouldn't mind if she agrees to be discreet.

Two dicks in one episode. Woo hoo hoo!!

R287, they were definitely there. I watched it on Foxtel too, and even rewound the Harry one because it went by quick enough that I thought: "was that his belt or his dick?" and then realised it was his (prosthetic) dick.

R295 because Che is SO amazing that Miranda needs them morning, noon, and night

"Jam incipiedo, sedere facebo," in dog-Latin he quoth, "Euge! sophos! hurray!"

I hope Miranda goes to Cleveland and finds Che having sex with somebody else.

I think that's where it's headed R300.

I found Steve highly annoying and unsympathetic during the break up scene. Maybe it's just his manner of speaking, I am not sure. But I kept thinking, it's hard to see how Miranda put up with him for this long.

If a grown man of 35 living in a cultural capital uses his leisure time to watch cartoons, what do you think he evolves into in 20 years? But there is value in a relationship with someone who is faithful, dependable and who loves you.

WTF is up with Miranda and the perpetual wide-eyed look with the post-stroke mouth?

In every scene I'm waiting for a "Hey lady! Close your mouth or the flies will get in!" from some random passerby. Blame it on the menopause? It's as though even the lesbian actress finds the changes of her character fucking incredulous.

Even in half of the publicity photos she's got that crazy face going on.

A photo dossier of evidence for R304

R305 That's just what her face looks like.

R306 What good would those nipples be on a corpse?

👆🏻That posted to the wrong thread and Infind it rather hilarious.

In other news, Andy Cohen asked K Davis "Is Che Diaz's standup comedy funny?" last night and Davis scrunched up her face and said "I think it's supposed to be 'hmm!'"

Cynthia Nixon definitely needs to use these for her next mayoral campaign.

Cynthia was quoted yesterday saying how extremely proud she is of the show.

So she doesn’t realize it’s a meritless cash grab that has destroyed the original show’s legacy and made them all into laughingstocks?

R287 did you watch it live or record it as opposed to downloading? I accidentally deleted my series link and it didn’t record so we had to DL it and there was no dick. Mind you I didn’t watch closely.

[quote] I found Steve highly annoying and unsympathetic during the break up scene. Maybe it's just his manner of speaking, I am not sure. But I kept thinking, it's hard to see how Miranda put up with him for this long.

I don’t see Miranda as such a prize. She’s funny at brunch and reasonably loyal to her friends (well, not to Samantha) but she’s awkward, judgemental, has a superiority complex and kind of a pill to be around. She’s not even nice to look at like Charlotte and Samantha and she doesn’t wear crazy getup everyday like Carrie which at least has a circus appeal. I’d be addicted to to sports and froyo after 20 years with her as well.

R304 recent facelift gone wrong is my bet.

“But what about BRADY?!?!”

Brady is a fully grown adult.

[quote]Hands up who wants to see Miranda throw out her back in a throuple?

I'd like to see her thrown out of a throuple.

It was a mistake ageing [bold] Brady[/bold]down. Him attending a city college, living at home, fucking his annoying gf all overly the house would still make sense

R310: Nixon has to promote this drek and she asked for a lot of what makes it ridiculous.

R271: I also liked Che telling off Miranda because Che is not funny and Miranda is not being written as an adult. The scene is as close to "truth" as we get in these characters. I wonder if the trip to Cleveland is a conscious elusion to Hot in Cleveland, in which case is Miranda Betty White or Valerie Bertinelli?

SATC was never that sex positive, except for Samantha. Carrie was a voyeur who couldn't deal with dating a bi guy or Samantha being with a woman.

[quote]she’s awkward, judgemental, has a superiority complex and kind of a pill to be around.

I have to wonder if we're heading toward ticking the box of undiagnosed Asperger's. With all this focus on race and sexual identity, my truth is that conventional disease has been marginalized and often, yes, we'll go there, silenced. It will be such exciting writing... cliffhanger stuff, we'd say.

[quote]Nixon has to promote this drek and she asked for a lot of what makes it ridiculous.

Except consider Nixon and SJP. Nixon, formerly with men, is now married to a manly woman with a non-binary or sex identity swapped child or something of the sort.

SJP is friends with Andy Cohen.

So who's reading the reviews and thinking "Oh, fuck, this isn't really being well received"? It ain't Governor Caliente.

It went right over Miranda's head but if you think about Steve's reaction, she treated him terribly (and in his love for her, or low self-esteem, or both, he allowed it) but that was a real cri de coeur when he said we've been though this, I'm enough, then I'm almost enough, then I'm not enough, then I'm enough again.

Ouch.

When you think about how high strung Miranda is, anybody other than Steve would have divorced her, long ago. It would be great if in season two he gets the chance to say I finally realized, after everything I did for twenty-five years, I deserve better than you. You could have a hilarious subplot where his anger and hostility toward her would drive her crazy for a season. Amicable divorces aren't really a thing.

Somebody upthread said in the rush to honour representation, Charlotte and Carrie's reactions were underwritten relative to the magnitude of the decision. This would be particularly threatening to Charlotte. You could see her quietly distancing from Miranda, rather than confronting it. Her 180 from the picnic scene was pretty big. This is a huge story for a show that purports to be more of a drama now, but it's being written as unicorns.

[quote]So who's reading the reviews and thinking "Oh, fuck, this isn't really being well received"? It ain't Governor Caliente.

In an interview with Kristin Davis, she said that Cynthia is the only one who reads the reviews because she's the only one strong enough to handle them. She said herself and SJP can't bring themselves to read them.

[quote] Amicable divorces aren't really a thing.

You'd be surprised, I know a few. But I would imagine they aren't the majority, for sure.

R318, why is everybody clicking their fingers nowadays instead of clapping? I'm very much out of the loop here. It looks obnoxious a lot of the time.

R321, I think the noise of applause triggers some people. Seriously. Although I don't know exactly what applause triggers, other than for Glenn Close.

They are making Miranda out to be an ahole. I'm glad Steve finally said many of the things we have all been thinking. I'd rather sit on a sectional couch and eat ice cream with my family for 30 years than throw it all away for some loud mouth public pot smoking (again!) comedian.

Really, R322? Wow. I don't know what to say to that. I don't want to be mean to people who have problems with that noise but at the same time... really?! It's like the other day I saw a group of people clutching their pearls over a vomiting scene in a movie, and how offensive they found it because it triggered them. They didn't just find it disgusting, they had emetophobia, I think, and were outraged there were no forewarnings about the vomiting in the movie.

Once again, I don't want to be rude, but... really?! I can imagine a couple of people having such a phobia, but it being a widespread thing?

I'm only 40 and I feel so fucking old, haha.

It surprises me they appear to be shooting up the stairs and after last night in a room of the house where the exteriors are shot in the Village. (Maybe it's a set but the staircase strikes me as comparatively elaborate for a set build. Like building any house, straight lines are cheaper and those stairs curve. Although Carrie's place is obviously a set.) But given how much the owners and neighbours have complained about the tourists over the years it surprises me they let the gang indoors. It kind of surprises me they agreed to let the stoop be used.

[quote]They are making Miranda out to be an ahole.

I wonder if they think so, or realize? They'll never admit it if they do. The only way to know will be where the character goes in a second series.

Anybody think there's any chance Cattrall comes back in any form? I don't. Seema's filling the shit sorted out earthy realist void and the character's a little more realistic than what they did to Samantha, who in the hands of these dolts was at risk of becoming a sixty year old in an Abercrombie t-shirt on Fire Island.

If Kim had said she'd do it, I bet they would've gone with the Samantha sexts Brady storyline from the leaked script of the third movie that I believe was one of the big reasons for her saying no.

[quote] I don’t see Miranda as such a prize.

When Steve married her, depending what makes a person a prize to different people, she was kind of a prize. She was a high-earning corporate attorney with lots of ambition and, all things being subjective, she was very pretty. During the original SATC days, one of my friends said she thought Miranda was the prettiest of all the women and after she said that I decided I agreed. Her hair and styling didn't help, but she had a very pretty face.

What made her not a prize when Steve married Miranda is that she never respected him.

Miranda now is a different person. Instead of affluent and focused and decisive, she is unemployed and aimless. She's also a terrible wife and mother, entirely self-interested. The kid's age notwithstanding, Miranda doesn't ever think about him. Her relationship with her professor has emphasized how much Miranda regrets having had a kid. The way her kid turned out is more evidence. He doesn't seem to give a shit about her judgments or her feelings, and he learned that somewhere. Compare with Charlotte's kids, who are in their rebellious preteen years but still don't have disdain for their parents. The one single thing Miranda cared about with respect to her son was not being caught by him while she was having her affair. But she didn't even seem to care that much. And she was only concerned about breaking the news to Steve—coldly so—but didn't give any thought to how she'd tell or how it would affect her son. Even if he's grown, it'll affect him emotionally (if he cares about his parents at all) and because he lives with them.

And yeah, Carrie and Charlotte are not good friends to Miranda. They seem half in and half out of the relationship. They are enabling her self-destructive and hurtful behaviors. Both should have told Miranda a version of what Steve did: You keep doing this shit to him and it isn't fair to him; you're self-centered; your new relationship is psycho; you're a stalker; you're an alcoholic; you need therapy to work out your addiction, lack of impulse control, self-centeredness and sexual identity, and we will support you in that, but stop being evil to your family—your problems should not be theirs. Separate or divorce if you must, but you are seriously craycray right now and probably scaring the theythem you are stalking, so check yourself into a hospital.

Stanford is supposed to be close to Carrie, right?

I'm bothered by his unceremonious exit.

Samantha moved overseas and they treat it like a death, with equal weight they gave to Big's death and the breakups with him early in the series.

Stanford left and no one gives a shit. Definitely nothing more than a token homo in Carrie's life even after decades.

Stanford was supposed to be a close friend, but they only wrote him in occasionally mostly as comic relief.

When Steve and Miranda married, he was a nice guy, but not a grownup. He’s always been a man child. That’s it’s own form of selfishness, often obscured by a “nice guy” act.

I don’t hate Steve, but he and Miranda never should have been together.

I don’t know about that, r331. What constitutes a grown up? Steve provided for his family, was a loving father and husband, and was an easy going guy. That’s more grown up to me than the ambitious pricks who climb the corporate ladder and back stab everyone on the way up.

I imagine the owners of the Perry Street brownstone that serves as the exterior of Carrie’s apt agreed to participate because, after all the years of harassment, they could make some good cash to cover pain and suffering. And I’ve no doubt they were able to command a nice fee.

[quote] She was a high-earning corporate attorney with lots of ambition and, all things being subjective, she was very pretty. During the original SATC days, one of my friends said she thought Miranda was the prettiest of all the women and after she said that I decided I agreed. Her hair and styling didn't help, but she had a very pretty face.

High earning attorneys are intellectual, ambitious, detail-protected and aggressive. In a woman, these traits are a turn off with at least 50% of men. Samantha is sure, smart, ambitious and tough but she was good-natured, hang-up free and kind. SJP was no great beauty but she had a banging body, an eye-catching combination of hair, smile and eyes and had the track record of attracting desirable men IRL. And for the first couple of seasons, Carrie was fun and and outgoing. Charlotte looks and plays the lady.

Miranda wasn’t a prize because of her looks, which, I wouldn’t call very pretty. She wasn’t a prize because she was neurotic, arrogant, had low self-esteem and continually sabotaged relationships because she didn’t think she was good enough (in the same way Charlotte sabotaged relationships because men didn’t fit her fairytale fantasy). Shes a decent human being, but she has always been very unhappy as herself.

Look at the Pokizkova thread where people talk about nice, beautiful women they know who don’t get asked out. Personality counts for more than we admit. Neediness, high-maintenance and self-loathing makes other people run for the hills.

[quote] When Steve and Miranda married, he was a nice guy, but not a grownup. He’s always been a man child. That’s it’s own form of selfishness, often obscured by a “nice guy” act.

He’s a business owner. Is he a man child because he likes frozen yoghurt?

[quote] Her relationship with her professor has emphasized how much Miranda regrets having had a kid. The way her kid turned out is more evidence. He doesn't seem to give a shit about her judgments or her feelings, and he learned that somewhere

I wish her regret of motherhood was dealt with seriously, but that truly is the final taboo of the middle-aged woman. Steve is a deaf asexual 90 year old and Brody is as irritating an selfish as a mosquito to give Miranda an easy out and that’s lazy writing.

[quote] In a show that is largely about three wealthy, wildly out-of-touch white women slowly coming to terms with their own cultural irrelevance,

So wealthy white women are now "culturally irrelevant"

Also, what's wrong with, as Miranda calls it, a fucking sectional couch? I'd love to have someone to have a dessert ritual with on our sectional couch for the next 30 years.

Miranda has never been satisfied with anything.

Skipper. Steve. Blair Underwood. Steve. Her own son. Being a partner and making lots of money. Steve. Che not DM'ing her back. Steve.

[quote] So wealthy white women are now "culturally irrelevant"

Actually, ALL formerly hot women are culturally irrelevant in their 50s unless they evolve, that’s literally the theme of the season. How the sexually vibrant move on from that identity into a new one.

Take acting: the once sexual, talented who remain names and employable are the ones who are either deemed fuckable to 30 year old guys: Mirren, Rampling, Sarandon, Berry, Moore OR become hags: Dench, Smith, Streep, Close. (And then there’s Kidman, who think she’s a Mirren but is really a hag.)

Similarly, 20 years ago these 3 were sophisticated city women looking for sex and love. Now they are moving into their hag era. They’re middle aged, widowed and in need of cosmetic surgery and new hips (Carrie), struggling to communicate with their husbands, make new friends and understand their gender divergent kids (Charlotte) and hate their lives and take TNT to it (Miranda).

Samantha, as the pilot stated, would never be a hag and is entering her Mirren years.

Although he looked like a retard loping around at the farmers market, I thought Steve was heartbreaking in the scene where Miranda dumps him.

A big part of Steve's "issue" to me is his vocal delivery/accent. He sounds like someone with a thick Chicago accent trying to a NYC-bridge and tunnel accent but ends up sounding borderline retarded.

I haven't watched the OG show in years, but off the top of my head:

Steve was a manchild when he:

Suggested having a baby with Miranda after living together for 2 months and worse timing in the world (she was up for partner)

Wouldn't turn down his cartoons when Miranda was working (despite her asking several times)

Didn't take care of his own dog (the dog he wanted to get)

Said "he just can't do it" when asked to care for his own child (Brady as a baby)

Took forever to get his own place when he and Miranda broke up (she was circling ads for apartments for him)

Didn't check on his own mother (later shocked to find she was living in squalor)

Didn't take his mother in hand when she acted the fool at Brady's birthday party

Sloughed off onto Miranda the responsibility for caring for his mother

Miranda was always the bread winner-- don't know what all the "he provided for his family" bullshit is from posters above

Didn't own a fucking suit then acted like a child when Miranda tried to buy him one

No ambition-- only ran a bar because he never wanted to get a regular job

The brownstone is on Perry St. but Carrie actually lives on E. 73rd St.

Smeone above said this guy is "only OK" (would love to see what he looks like!)

So what does DL say...... cut or uncut and foreskin pulled back for US audience?

apparently he's a model!

I just assumed Steve grew out of his more immature traits, but that’s hard to tell from what they are showing now. I feel for him, wasting so much time in Miranda for her to never appreciate him, then him thinking she had finally calmed the fuck down and they could enjoy life together, and then she dumped him anyway. And the kid he got out of it isn’t much to write home about from what we’ve seen.

Excellent summary, R343. But they are both at fault - Miranda for co-parenting with Steve and then marrying him, knowing his deficiencies, and Steve, for not making the effort to man up and face his responsibilities. Truly a dysfunctional, toxic co-dependent relationship.

It is so wild the disconnect between what I guess the showrunners think they're delivering and R328, which I would argue reflects the viewer experience to one degree or another (well written, R328.) In the hands of better writers you'd think they were headed down a fascinating path for Miranda, that includes a little reckoning. My gut tells me it's just the pursuit of her truth, as if it has no consequences. Somebody wanted this representation made, which is a disservice to the experience of those it is supposed to represent. You don't do what Miranda's doing at her stage of life without some pain to others.

If Cynthia Nixon is the one who reads the reviews among them, I wonder what she tells them? In any event, HBO is in it to make money and boost HBO's value perception. They will surely have a word about something if the show could return a better value to its reputation.

Agreed, r348. That’s why their breakup scene is so sad. It really got to me.

To say they’ve wasted their lives is too harsh. They are successful people. And Miranda was never going to find fulfillment in relationships— just not her style. But she has some career regrets, and those are related to her choices in her personal life.

Steve is the more tragic figure. If he’d had a little more gumption, he and Debbie could have had 4 kids and oodles of grandkids by now. But Steve was lazy and wanted Miranda to take care of everything. So, he made his bad choices too.

R343, I have to point out all that happened nearly 20 years ago, at least in tv time. He ended up opening and owning his own bar in Manhattan, which must be lucrative. Miranda isn’t working while she goes to school, so he’s supporting the family. He may have been a man-child at one time, but he’s not today.

He can’t even find his way around the farmers market without being micromanaged by Miranda. (Then he lost his wallet to boot.)

I would bet they are living off Miranda’s investments.

Still a manchild. Unless he’s heading into dementia, but I hope that’s not the case.

The scuzzball hot guy downstairs is pretty perfect looking as far as I am concerned.

When he came out in the towel, I thought, "Jesus!"

Then I looked at his face and guessed he is in his early or maybe mid-20s and realized at that age with that face and body, he must be an Instaho. And then my arousal fell away.

I accept that I am old and out of touch at 43, but I reached max capacity with cookie-cutter young narcissists getting rich off their prettiness years ago and I just have zero attraction to someone once I know or even assume they are an Instaho. It feels like being attracted to a robot whore.

[quote]I accept that I am old and out of touch at 43

Oh, honey... don't accept that. You've got decades of pain yet before you're really old and out of touch. Trust me on this.

They really should have explored the long term implications of Steve and Miranda’s mismatch.

Instead we get ache as Deux ex machina / breakup catalyst.

[quote]...nearly 20 years ago... He ended up opening and owning his own bar in Manhattan, which must be lucrative. Miranda isn’t working while she goes to school, so he’s supporting the family.

Being a partner in a prestigious law firm probably pays a lot more bills than owning a Joe Average bar and enjoys greater insulation from the vicissitudes of business than does a walk-in trade.

There's no indication that his bar was unsuccessful (it lasted 20 years), but there's no reason to think that Miranda has put herself at risk with expensive school loans and is reduced to clipping coupons because she left her job. Rules of how she may quit or park her interest in the partnership are set, but whatever they were she went home with more than a $50 Amazon gift card

Some people who don't work have very nice incomes.

Deus weird autocorrect

And “ache” should be Che, but I’m leaving it as “ache.”

R354 I just meant that at age 43, I automatically judge and dismiss anyone who uses Instagram as seemingly all young people use Instagram. It's a sexual turnoff for me no matter what the person looks like. It's kind of strange but showoffs gross me out, and when they do it to get free hair products and underwear? Blech.

Social media had its moment, but anyone still addicted to it is pretty sad.

It could get kind of interesting if Miranda fucked herself over so badly she ended up unemployed and single and had to beg Carrie and Charlotte for money. They evidently have plenty to give away but how long would they put up with it before putting her on a plane to London?

“ Social media had its moment, but anyone still addicted to it is pretty sad.”

But let me check my comment at r360 on the minute to see how many ww’s I get.

We're all expecting Miranda to find Che 'cheating on her.' What if instead we are treated to an impromptu shotgun wedding followed by a 15-minute-long scene of the two women barking like sea lions while wiggling their fannies on opposite ends dildo?

The way this is going, it wouldn't surprise me!

I hope Michael Che does a meta Che Diaz impersonation on SNL tomorrow!

The end of Miranda's marriage would be a lot more poignant if she had fallen in love with a luminous, intelligent person, male or female; the person she should have married all those years ago. But her leaving Steve for Che, who isn't even offering her any stability, all you can think its that she's a completely stupid, self-destructive woman who is doomed to lurch from one disaster to another.

As has been said multiple times, they could've had Steve and Miranda amicably divorced when the show opens. Couples grow apart and sometimes stay friends, especially when they have a kid. That would've respected Steve and the fans of their story while still leaving Miranda free to have her lesbian awakening.

WHY they chose to do it this way I don't know.

[quote] Excellent summary, [R343]. But they are both at fault - Miranda for co-parenting with Steve and then marrying him, knowing his deficiencies, and Steve, for not making the effort to man up and face his responsibilities. Truly a dysfunctional, toxic co-dependent relationship.

TOXIC? They’re not Natalie Wood and Robert Wagner.

[quote] The end of Miranda's marriage would be a lot more poignant if she had fallen in love with a luminous, intelligent person, male or female; the person she should have married all those years ago. But her leaving Steve for Che, who isn't even offering her any stability, all you can think its that she's a completely stupid, self-destructive woman who is doomed to lurch from one disaster to another.

Miranda is a snarky, unhappy, neurotic person. The only time a luminous, intelligent person marries someone like that is is they’re considerably beautiful, like Marlon Brando, and people want to heal them.

No one wants to heal Miranda.

[quote] The end of Miranda's marriage would be a lot more poignant if she had fallen in love with a luminous, intelligent person, male or female; the person she should have married all those years ago. But her leaving Steve for Che, who isn't even offering her any stability, all you can think its that she's a completely stupid, self-destructive woman who is doomed to lurch from one disaster to another.

[quote] As has been said multiple times, they could've had Steve and Miranda amicably divorced when the show opens. Couples grow apart and sometimes stay friends, especially when they have a kid. That would've respected Steve and the fans of their story while still leaving Miranda free to have her lesbian awakening. WHY they chose to do it this way I don't know.

Guys, conflict is the basis of drama. Sensible decision making is not. This is the beginning of a new television series that is attempting to update itself and create a new dramatic narrative arc. If they start with happily ever after and universal harmony, it won't be interesting in any way.

That’s true, r369.

“The Affair” was truly a terrible show at times. But they did some pretty interesting work with the idea of midlife crisis, divorce, etc. It can be done.

Drama also has to engage such that you root for the protagonists. There has been nothing about Miranda this season/series that puts you her side. She's a high strung character who's hard to like and getting more unlikable with each episode/decision.

Hey it’s Che Diaz. I’m not a home wrecker. Even though I was at the same funeral as Steve. And I finger banged Mir in Carrie’s kitchen. Keep hate watching!

I'm no Che fan, but they came across as much more stable that Miranda in the last episode.

Either Miranda finds them with someone else or they do get together and everything's happy go lucky until Che decides to open the relationship and Miranda learns just what Che meant when they said they couldn't offer her a traditional relationship.

R373 yeah aside from the whole "I assumed you had an open marriage" BS, that was probably Che's best scene...a low bar, I know. Miranda was frantic and manic the entire episode. It was frightening, not romantic.

Plenty of people leave an unhappy marriage for someone unsuitable and who they know is unsuitable; the objective is to use the catalyst to end the marriage rather than find something substantial.

And Steve was always seen by *most* fans as an idiot who Miranda was settling for, it's bizarre seeing him elevated to something more than that because people dislike Che/the series.

[quote]Then I looked at his face and guessed he is in his early or maybe mid-20s and realized at that age with that face and body, he must be an Instaho. And then my arousal fell away.

He's actually a real model from what I could find. I think signed to Ford

“ Steve was always seen by *most* fans as an idiot who Miranda was settling for”

Other way around, actually

Comments are good. (and sometimes quite funny.)

R375, I was thinking about that. I think part of is AJLT Steve has been downgraded from SATC Steve. Granted, he wasn't a Robert, but he was a better man than Che. Second, as much as I dislike the character, SR is playing her with abandon and I admire that. I think the character has become a proxy for the backlash against Miranda (Che's almost like your dad's second wife... she ruined everything) and there's at least a part of it that's rooted in and then she ate the show. Which, she isn't, really, but she does stand out when she's on screen because of the actress' gusto in playing her and of all the new women she's on the most, though not really eating the show. Nearly ten episodes and what do we know about LTW for example? Not much. Except she's got style and she's not eating the show.

Last night really could have used some Anthony obnoxiousness.

Deserves its own post:

^

Miranda Hobbes' Cheap Wig

@HobbesWig

Hi! I am the cheap-ass wig from Party City that sits on the head of Miranda Hobbes. I'll give you the low-down on #AndJustLikeThat

This one's a fairly funny flow...

[quote]I'd love to have someone to have a dessert ritual with on our sectional couch for the next 30 years.

Me too, my friend. Hey, if we're both still single at 50... ;)

[quote]It's kind of strange but showoffs gross me out

Not strange at all, you're saving yourself a lot of bother without even perhaps realising it. I have met guys like this and a couple of friends of mine actually are still trying to be Instahos (late 30s). Imagine this: you're walking down the street with a group of friends, on your way to a bar for a few drinks and a chat. As you walk, suddenly you're all ordered to stop. One of the party needs some photos for his Instagram. "You!" he points at you "stand on the other side of the street and take a picture of me as I cross". Except it's not a picture, it's 40 pictures, as he goes back again and again to "casually cross the road", then he criticises every picture you've taken so another person in the group is tasked with doing that. Then at the bar they are either not talking to everyone else as they obsessively check how many likes the picture got, or they are dominating the conversation with their favourite topic: them. And they laugh: "oh you all know I'm high maintenance", but they are deadly serious and will show zero interest in anything that isn't about them and will change the topic at any time to be about them.

I say "friends" above, but covid has given me a great chance to not be in their orbit for awhile now and it's so pleasurable. If I hadn't known them since we were young, I would've ended the friendship a long time ago.

I haven't listened to the podcast, but the comments are straight out of DL

R345, that's clearly a circumcised penis. Look at the brown ring - that circumcision scar turns into a ring/freckle of discoloration.

Kim Cattrall really dodged a bullet by saying no to this. I can only imagine the cringe storylines they would've had for Samantha. Dating Laverne Cox or some kind of horseshit like that.

Did any of you stop to think that the show is actually MEANING to show these ladies' characters in a bad light? Making bad decisions as a 50-something, having some hubris, maybe learning something, or probably not?

Are any of you in your 50s yet? This shit is actually pretty true to form. I'm in my 50s, and me and all my friends are losing our shit over a ton of stuff, and it ain't pretty. Chickens come home to roost, bodies start to fail, you aren't old and wise enough to sit back and avoid the drama, and you aren't young enough to actually tango with the drama. Steve is the only wise one, telling Miranda straight up that he doesn't have the energy to fight for them again, while Miranda jets off to Cleveland - about to have a huge disappointment. That's really how it is in your 50s.

At the ladies lunch this episode, over crab legs or whatever, they sit down and Miranda starts to talk about Che/Steve drama, and Carrie mopes "oh I guess I don't get to talk about my neighbors keeping me up all night".

What a selfish cunt. I'm glad she didn't get to talk at all.

R384, on one of those didn't the writer Samantha Irby say something about how she values her own work too much to listen to negative reviews, so she unfollows and blocks people? That seems to be pretty on brand with this new type of thinking (the Roxane Gay School of Interactions). "All criticism is bad, there is no such thing as constructive criticism and everyone who doesn't worship everything I do is a hater" type thinking.

This show needs to be written by gay men.

R390 laughs in MPK

"At the ladies lunch this episode, over crab legs or whatever, they sit down and Miranda starts to talk about Che/Steve drama, and Carrie mopes "oh I guess I don't get to talk about my neighbors keeping me up all night".

"What a selfish cunt. I'm glad she didn't get to talk at all."

Yes, Carrie can be self-involved, but this is just reaching IMO. I thought she clearly said it as a joke - in recognition that it was trivial and could wait and that Charlotte's Lily issues were more pressing.

R387 you give the writers too much credit.

Hkjhbjhjhhjb

Review of Episode 8 calling out all the ways Miranda is being an asshole to everyone around her

Vulture paywalled... is it scathing?

Opening paragraph:

[quote]When Che Diaz is the only one around to reason with you, you know things are dire. Honestly, having the most mystifying character in the entire show be the one to remind Miranda that she’s being an utterly shitty person tracks. The Miranda stuff has been a mess from the beginning, and much of that stems from the fact that the Miranda in And Just Like That … seems to have zero connection to the Miranda in Sex and the City. Carrie has, more than once, said things to the effect of not knowing who Miranda is anymore, and I feel like it’s way past time for these friends to have an actual conversation about this. It’s great that Miranda is having a sexual awakening and feeling alive and free and finally feels like she’s beginning to understand who she is. All of that is good! But she’s doing it all at the expense of several other people — even the person she is supposedly in love with! — and that doesn’t seem to cross her mind at any point. Sure, most of the characters on this show are self-involved, but this is a new level. Even her reason for finally telling Steve that she has been cheating on him and wants a divorce is self-involved: She’s not doing it because it is the right thing to do and she feels guilty — she’s doing it because it is the only way Che will stay with her.

[quote]Miranda doesn’t come across as a woman exploring a beautiful new side of her as much as a sociopath setting fire to the lives of her friends and family.

Miranda is acting like she's dickmatized and almost stalker scary. She's not in love, she's obsessed.

R399, I'm not going to IGNORED Che

Lol R400 honestly, it could be really fun if the writers just let Miranda turn into a stalker who murders Che and gives Carrie and Charlotte something real with actual consequences to worry about...and then just let it spiral out of control like Riverdale did. Carrie's designer witch blondie was a tip off that...Carrie is a witch just discovering her powers! Charlotte finds out Harry's wealth comes from organized crime! Seema lands herself in prison and Carrie dresses up as a cheerleader and cheers her on outside the fence while Seema scores a touchdown and then gets shanked!

Maybe in one episode, they could swap out all the actors with Riverdale actors. KJ Apa can play Anthony.

I mean, at this point, why not?

If you watch the NEXT EPISODE preview, you'll see that Miranda has a bit of a disappointment coming next week when Che tells her they're not dating. As if we couldn't see that coming.

The show has made Miranda seem wildly impulsive and hypomanic about this whole affair. Maybe she's about to be diagnosed.

Waiting for Miranda to do something truly insane like announce she is running for mayor of New York City.

[quote]Che tells her they're not dating.

In the most recent episode didn't she tell Miranda she loved her? But they're not dating? I know they're not traditional, but I find that confusing. I would assume not traditional would mean dating a number of people, open relationships etc. "I'm in love you but we're not dating" is kinda odd to me. I guess I'm not as hip as Samantha Irb-- I mean "Che".

Miranda: [sobs] Che doesn't...want to be with me!

Carrie: Oh, Honey. I—I mean, it was pretty obvious.

Miranda: WHAT! Why didn't you tell me?

Charlotte: Harry's colonoscopy came out just fine!

Carrie: Help me out here, Charlotte.

Charlotte: Sweetie...you're an alcoholic.

Carrie: And delusional.

Charlotte: And probably the most self-centered person we know.

Carrie: Probably?

Charlotte: [shrugs] Definitely. But, oh, Sweetie, don't cry! We think you're repugnant...but we love you!

Miranda: BUT WHY!!!

[Charlotte and Carrie look at one another and shrug.]

Carrie VO: And just like that, Miranda fell backward into an MTA bus and Seema got herself a full-time job.

^ Very well done!

I could so hear Charlotte.

I'm available if HBO is looking for replacement writers!

R397, that article is weird.

[quote]It’s great that Miranda is having a sexual awakening and feeling alive and free and finally feels like she’s beginning to understand who she is. All of that is good! But she’s doing it all at the expense of several other people — even the person she is supposedly in love with! — and that doesn’t seem to cross her mind at any point.

How else is someone in her position to learn who she is without experimentation and impulse, and being a careless, self-involved person? Was she supposed to ask for Steve's permission to cheat on him? Is there a form to fill out for this kind of thing? In real life, it goes EXACTLY like how it's going in this show. Discovering sexuality late in life is very messy, and always hurts someone else, and confuses many. I think some people are mistaking messy awkward storylines for a 'bad show' in general. This show is really like a morality play, not at all like SATC, and we learned that weeks ago. Why is anyone still up in arms over these characters doing shitty things to those they love? This is the theme!

Of course she did.

Most people should not have children and Miranda is one case study to demonstrate why.

R408: “ Discovering sexuality late in life is very messy”

Nothing was discovered. SATC Miranda was a confirmed hetero. AJLT Miranda is a different character.

I so wanted the breakup scene to go like this:

Steve: "Is it another man?" Miranda: "Uh..no." Steve: "You mean it's a woman??" Miranda: "Uh, no. Not exactly."

Miranda's gonna get FUCKED in Cleveland. And not in a good way.

These writers have a very annoying habit of cutting a scene right before it's about to get interesting.

Miranda: "Steve, I've met someone else."

CUT

And we don't get to see Steve's reaction to this news or the fact that it's a woman.

Carrie: "Miranda, honey, how does Che feel about you?"

CUT

And we're robbed of Miranda's response.

It drives me to drink like Miranda on a bender.

While not every frustrated 50+ person blows up their life for a Che, in history and in literature, there is a lot of support for the trope of an someone older upending a conventional life to pursue someone completely inappropriate. Death in Venice springs to mind. Desperation leads people to make disastrous choices.

Hungry people make poor shoppers.

Monica was Bill's Che. Or maybe Bill was Monica's.

Because even a pillow has to be defined, R161!

I’ve never gotten such a headache from reading a thread. Wow.

If you see a fully erect penis on these shows it is a prosthetic. If you see another actor touching the penis it’s a prosthetic. The more you know…

The complaints about Miranda’s character changing seem ridiculous to me. I am 35 and know I think differently about certain things now than I did at 25, so I can imagine that in 20 years I will be a different man than I am now. This idea that 55 YO Miranda should be exactly the same as she was as 35 seems a bit ridiculous to me. I see a lot of the same traits of old Miranda, but she’s softened up with time in some ways and she’s finally coming to terms with how unhappy she is in her marriage, something that was obvious in the 2008 movie. Miranda never wanted to get married and was always toying Steve around. Like he said, one minute he’s not good enough for her then the next he’s fine, and it keeps going back and forth. And it’s always been this way! I sometimes wonder if the people who act like Steve and Miranda had this amazing relationship ever watched the OG show, or actually paid attention.

They didn’t just “drop” the drinking storyline. The point was that she wasn’t an actual alcoholic but drinking to fill a void. After she found Che and discovered that part of herself and felt better she no longer needed to drink to fill a void. Yikes at how many of you don’t get it.

Carrie having a friend who is not a part of the main group feels realistic. I actually don’t know anyone in NYC who has been here for years (if not their whole lives) who only has the same friends for years upon years without ever making new ones or meeting new people. The OG show had these women only be with each other or men for 6 years. They never ever branched out (outside of the earlier seasons which was rare) and that felt a bit stupid to me, but I would assume women in their 50s would have made some new friends along the way.

I like the minority characters. Seema is fun and I like Lisa a lot and wish she was used more. The teacher is fine, albeit bland, but I actually have met educated black women just like her here in NY, so she rang true to me.

Most of the writing has been done by the OG writers. Blaming the writing on the new ones, who aren’t even doing the majority of the writing is just lazy and looking for anyone to blame.

The show isn’t even that bad. People just wanna see the same characters be and act exactly the same way as they did in 1998 and that, to me at least, seems ridiculous. They’re heading into their 60s. Why would they still be running around the way they did then?

What rom-com are they patterning Miranda's life after? You've Got Shemale?

R342 Chicago? Steve’s accent is very Boston, and yes, he tries to make it sound like NY.

The core audience for this show doesn’t want new characters. With the exception of Seema they weigh the show down. Here’s how I hope the season ends: Carrie sends Samantha a text. Next we see a woman’s hand pick up a phone and the camera pans up to Kim. She starts to text back then stops. The end.

R419 is feeling some kind of way

R422 doesn’t matter that they don’t wanna see new characters, that’s what they got because it’s way more realistic that these women have new people around them in 2022 than just the same people they did in the 90s. That’s not real life in NYC. Maybe in a small city or the suburbs but NYC, honey….

I saw someone say “Miranda would have NEVER hurt Steve like this! Who is this person because it’s not Miranda?!”

Did these people watch the OG show at all? I’m so confused.

R424: LOL. She has stated our failings and set our boundaries.

Also, it may come as a shock how little most people change between 30, 40, 50 et al.

R426 and we see that with Charlotte and Carrie, who are older versions of their younger selves, but Miranda has changed. And that’s fine. You’d be shocked how many people DO change between 30s, 40s, 50s etc.

Everyone is different.

I really wish they hadn't killed Big off, although his sudden death was a true moment of high tv drama like Who shot JR? Big and Carrie's relationship pairing of the Commitment-phobe and The Woman Who Loved Too Much kept viewers riveted for years. That type of dynamic doesn't magically end with marriage and it would have been interesting to see how it played out through the years. Big would have crushed Carrie's heart repeatedly but in between those times, there would have been much passion and closeness. (Rinse, repeat..)

Killing off Big was the best decision they made.

And I’m proud of it!⬆️

I'm proud of Che Diaz!

They are Chey Diaz!

Using plural pronouns to neuter ourselves has made me realize that we are greater than just ourselves, and so that horrid singular "I" no longer has any place in our world!

Behold the new, correct conjugations:

We are = first person We are = refers to another person of any or no gender (blue) We are = refers to a different kind of person with any or no gender (pink) We are = first person collective, inclusive! They are = singular third person for any or no gender (blue) They are = singular third person for any or no gender (pink) They are = plural third person

Example: We are a gender fluid nonbinary nonconforming queer LatinX comedy QUEEN!

Commit these to memory and do not fucking slip up!

I remember when Cheryl was quite another rose, as smells and names go.

Somewhere Joanna FUCKING Gleeson is haunting her phone, praying to whatever god she believes in that they'll shoehorn her into another marriage counseling scene. At this point it doesn't matter which couple, just as long as she gets to overact her way through the scene.

Who knew boring ol' Charlotte who nobody wanted to be in those old quizzed would turn out to be the fun one still suckin' some big ol' cock and giggling her way through life 20 years later?

I remember someone doing the stats on which character had fucked the most guys in the show, and it turns out it was Charlotte, haha. I always remember Miranda saying to her too: "Well, you have had a decent amount of bone in you" to Charlotte's stressed: "Am I a whore?"

Rewatching the original I’m a little shocked how often they say fag. I know it was a different time but it’s kind of shocking to hear thrown around so casually.

R437 Bear in mind the show runner was a fag.

And he created Stanford and Anthony as representative of gay men.

Steve's whiny ass voice would get on my last nerve. But Miranda did him dirty.

Can you imagine raising a kid with someone, then they quit their job and tell you they're leaving you for a comedian who's not a girl, not yet a woman...not yet a man, not really sure what?

I think I would insist on a brain scan before agreeing to separate.

I had an uncle who started suddenly collapsing and he had a brain scan and found out he had glioblastoma. He was out of his mind within a couple of weeks, dead within six weeks, and we found out he had gone bonkers before then. He and his wife had separated and he was a minister who ran a drug rehab center—and he had a stripper pole installed in his living room and had a live-in 20-something (very cute) drug addict who robbed the house while my uncle was dying in the hospital. He stole everything, including the dining room chandelier and the dish washer.

If Miranda has glioblastoma, I will forgive her.

Up until a few years ago it was still very acceptable to say “fag” openly

No it wasn't, R441. Maybe 15, max.

You would say that, fag.

Yeah I remember Samantha expressing surprise at Bitsy's pregnancy because she was "married to a faaaaaag!!" and the woman that told Charlotte that she had baguettes made out of her husband's wedding ring after he turned out to be a "fag-uette".

R442 yes, it was. Gays couldn’t even marry 15 years ago.

I always get a kick out of how out of touch DLers are with most straight people around straight people 😂

Honey, that F bomb is still a popular word.

The latest episode featured a LOT of really bad acting. Surprised because Nixon and SJP are usually pretty good. But with these lines...and storyline.

Does David Eigenberg really have such an unattractive whiny voice as a real person?

Fag and faggot have never been as big in my country, though certainly used on occasion. 'Poofter' was much more likely when I was growing up (90s). Generally 'gay' though. I remember that period in the 00s when 'gay' was actually an insult.

It’s the end of the day, I’ve smoked a little weed and just settling into this marvelous DL space (blog?). I can’t help but wonder, does everyone put this much energy into watching a television programme or just this crowd? There seems to be a lot of detailed negative comments at a molecular level. Do we like the show or don’t we? I like it and it seems to be getting better, finding it’s stride again. Whew girl…this weed.

R449 well if you’re speaking about the UK then a fag is a cigarette there and a poofter is a slur. If you are actually from there you would know that

R415, we don't get to see this because that would require some really good acting.

Of course I know that R451. I never indicated otherwise.

I'm not from the UK however.

I'm 437 and I don't mean shocking as in oh my delicate ears, more that's it's odd to hear on tv after it's been absent for many years.

R446 you need better friends if that's the case. I have plenty of straight friends and they're not dropping the f bomb on the regular.

I enjoyed this episode more than any so far. Carrie was funny and less irritating with her “widow” schtick. Seema is so beautiful.

^I have complained a lot about this show, but I legit laughed several times during this most recent episode.

I can’t have cancer AND be a fag hag

Comedy Central aired a repeat of the Bob Saget toast a few weeks ago and every single slur except fag was bleeped.

Yup r458

But I’m wrong for saying it’s still the last acceptable slur.

I did laugh at Carrie in her smoking outfit. I thought it was a nod to Grey Gardens.

419 Miranda has no remorse about cheating on Steve. The Miranda who was upset about Steve cheating on her. Miranda also acted like she never met a black person in her life. She’s had a black neighbor and black boyfriend.

Sara Ramirez looks utterly ridiculous with that stupid Mohawk haircut or whatever it is.

I would hate to see Che without makeup *shudder*

Saying « I’m in my 30s and a completely different person from when I was in my 20s » sounds like « I am 10, and I changed so much since I was 5, not to mention 1! » Did you know that 26 to 29 are the new formative years of a child’s development?

Chris Pine is a fag.

Best episode of the season I thought. I didn’t cringe once. I mean. There were scenes where I didn’t like what the character said, but that was intentional.

Was i the only one to think that by admitting she had met someone else, she was screwing herself over in the divorce? I want Steve to get a shark of a divorce lawyer and take everything: he gets the brownstone, he gets palimony, he gets custody, everything. She gets nothing, except, Che, which we all know isn’t going going to work.

Oh, and I had to laugh at Che’s claim of not being a home wrecker. She is. She literally is. She may not WANT to be a homewrecker, but she is one.

Does anyone have the screenshot of Carrie’s naked neighbor?

R419: No amount of concern trolling can make most of us think this show isn't horrible and basically a hate watch. The characters lives were tied up at the end of the series and the producers didn't give themselves room to do much with the characters in the inevitable movie or reboot. Yes, people evolve but they don't usually become more childish. What has continued has been Carrie's failure to grow-up and her ridiculous wardrobe, the underwriting of male characters and the minstrel-y portrayal of gay characters. They add and prematurely discard plot elements like Miranda's drinking or Carrie's surgery and house hunting. They have these women endlessly yammering about age at a point in life where people don't that (yet). The technical stuff also isn't very good---depending on the light, Carrie looks her age or 70. Miranda's wig or wigs look like something out of a thrift shop and Kristin Davis' pear shaped body looks fat because they put her in the wrong clothes. The list minor fails goes on and on and provides the only real entertainment value of this show.

Guess what r468, life continues in real life, even after stories are “tied up”. Shit changes. And that’s what this show is showing us. People change. Times change. Culture changes. Relationships change. People die. New people enter your life. Etc.

If you are STILL hate watching, that’s your prerogative. You’re a grown ass man.

I wonder if there's a scene in ep. 9 where CliCHÉ tells Miranda "I never asked you to [blah blah blah]". The preview seems to be leaning that way.

What is the actor’s name who played the nude neighbor?

So It’s Che Diaz goes from “figure out your shit” to “we’re not dating.” What a douche. And claims they are not a homewrecker but they are “not traditional.” This stupid bull dog dyke.

Well you can be “not traditional” and not a homewrecker.

[quote]I did laugh at Carrie in her smoking outfit. I thought it was a nod to Grey Gardens.

I assumed her all her costumes were a nod to Late Stage Little Edie.

And just like that...most people who were guest stars or had cameos on Sex and the City have faded from the spotlight, and one of the few currently active and productive ones who hasn't faded is Andy Cohen.

Yeah, but he aims low.

Google it your damn self R471. Took about 30 seconds to figure it out. It'll likely take you most of the day.

r469: Your defense is as pathetic as the writing for the show. These people's story lines are added and discarded in a way that has nothing to do with reality. Miranda acting like a 12 year old over Che is the one actual story arc and given Che's lack of real character development and Miranda's obvious obliviousness, it suggests they can't even do a long-term story arc. The show is bunch of ideas left over from the aborted third film---not a good way to write a series.

Well the show has been leaping over months at a time, R478, and in reality, most conflicts and dilemmas are resolved within several months. But it makes for poor storytelling since conflict is drama and story.

Then stop watching. Maybe it’s time to grow up r478

R478: Because it's like watching a train wreck but with fewer real casualties, just aging actresses with limited prospects getting a paycheck and pathetic recurring characters. You're the one who's whining and pathetic. The rest of us are having some entertainment.

I am with the person who said it's "not that bad." It is not that bad.

I saw the first movie and it was BAD. I regretted watching it. It gave me a distaste for the whole series and made me feel like I had gotten sucked into something entirely superficial and meaningless. But the original series was not THAT bad and this reboot is not as bad as the movie.

And I didn't need or want a reboot to shove social progress down our throats, but when everyone was bitching that Friends—a 25-year-old TV show—was set in NYC and had an all-white cast, all I could think of was RHONY (supposedly reality) and Sex and the City showing zero minorities throughout their runs. Now both are awkwardly diversifying and yeah, it's sad that the producers decided to lecture to their audience because of their own limited world views instead of just putting in characters of color who are just human beings and moving along with the story.

I think one reason we like Seema so much is that she was just immediately a person and not a type. Yes, they showed her traditional Indian parents, but she's not ALL about being Indian American. Sadly, every black character was framed from the beginning as "the black ones," and there specifically because they are black. Miranda even exolicitly said she chose to bring the prof into her life because she is black! That is cringey, and not because Miranda did it but because the writers are doing it. Meanwhile, Seema just stepped out of her car and into Carrie's life as a person with a personality, and the two black characters are excellent in spite of the tokenism and not because of it.

This is lumpy, awkward social progress meets a series that is not designed to take on serious issues because its strength was always its superficiality.

Still, it's OK as far as I am concerned.

A few moments—Carrie with Seema, John's death scene, Carrie's scene with Natasha in the café—have resonated strongly with me. Charlotte seems a little sillier now and I like her more than ever. SJP is still a compelling performer to me. All three of the new characters are great IMO and I want a lot more of them. Like RHONY, though, the fucking producers and writers need to totally, completely abandon the 'woke' lessons and just let the people of color live as human beings. Jesus. I mean, my God.

And yeah, Che is annoying, I am annoyed by the way Carrie moons over Samantha but immediately forgot about Stanford, I am annoyed that this show has never depicted a normal gay man who isn't a cartoon, I now dislike and pity sad, crazy Miranda. I personally HATE that Carrie inherited untold millions and has Trump-level access to anything she wants, and living in her dumpy old apartment is lame and it does not offset her limitless wealth. Limitations make people interesting and Carrie is much less interesting as an heiress.

It's not great TV. It's not very good. Aside from the offensive approach to diversifying, it's not very bad. It's middling with a few standout lovely and touching scenes and a few cover-your-eyes disaster scenes.

R482: “I am annoyed that this show has never depicted a normal gay man who isn't a cartoon”

We get it.

R483 I take that point, but the creator of the show is a gay man and that makes it especially distasteful spunk to swallow.

Was the bit about Russian hookers a dig at Melania?

What’s weird is the Stanfords and Anthony’s of the gay world exist. Mario Cantone pretty much is Anthony in real life, without the excessive bitchiness. So people bitching about them being cartoons make no sense.

It's almost as if no-one on here has ever met an average gay man before.

SATC did show us a “normal” average gay man who was also beautiful in one season 4 episode, when Carrie and him become close and Stanford is threatened by her relationship with this beautiful non-fem gay man. She was hanging out with him and going to lunch and not even inviting Stanford.

She was always awful to Stanford.

R467 and R471 He's called Corey Saucier.

R486 They exist but they are not the only type of gay man that exists and the show doesn't show any variety. Again, it's NYC and it's 2022. Gay people and black people have long been normalized even in entertainment, so this show feels archaic and token-y with its cartoony versions of diversity and inclusivity.

There's also an elephant in the room that would be interesting for the writers to address: the woman are decades behind the country in integrating because they are so wealthy that even if they're progressive in their minds, they have had limited interaction with people who are not wealthy and white and old.

Are they really behind the country in integrating? I'm their age. When I was young and meeting people they were almost invariably people like me. I don't know why, I suppose it was a kind of clueless prejudice in part, but it just didn't happen. And my world today is not overly integrated. And I wouldn't do it for the sake of appearance. But I'm also different enough that were I to befriend someone markedly different from me in some way, there wouldn't be barriers to it. So much of our thinking and frame of reference is based on what we know and comfort with what we know. Only recently have we been challenging the basis of our thinking. Besides, how many people are wildly reinventing their social circles in older age? Most people who are older complain about loneliness.

Corey Saucier us indeed a good name for an actor with a visible penis.

R491 I think they are far behind the people of NYC in integrating, yes. I am a little younger than they are at 43, but I grew up in mostly white Loudoun County, VA, and I have always had nonwhite friends. I have lived in Washington, DC, for about 15 years and although it is very diverse it can be weirdly self-segregated, and still most of my friends are not white, from a broad array of backgrounds, both American born and immigrants. I can't imagine people who have lived in NYC for decades no matter the age don't have diverse circles of friends unless they intentionally have kept people at arm's length.

I think the season lacks a bible. There's obviously a list. But this thing isn't going anywhere. It ambles along, leap frogging time, a series of short vignettes by characters that aren't developed. The only part getting a ton of time and attention is Che/Miranda and I agree, it isn't that bad, but the main arc is really badly written relative to the time it is getting, so it feels like it is eating the show. Who the hell thinks the misadventures of Miranda was good as a primary focus?

R493 - fair enough. I was thinking further and I also hold economics play a big part in who your friends are too. But in the AJLT universe it would make sense that Che could orbit it, Charlotte would befriend LTW, Carrie would befriend Seema. LTW and Seem are great characters. They are fun and warm and fit with the audience's expectations. Remember, this crew wrote a cancer storyline that fit the tone. Che and Miranda seem to be a show within the show. I know they think they're writing a show with a different tone, but it may be telling them stick to light comedy.

Boy, it's a real commitment to read all these AJLT threads. Y'all are pretty intent and verbose about a series that you think isn't good.

I don't think this has been observed: at the opening Pride rally (which was a fucking cartoon, and the logistics of the rally and the crown looked like a gay afternoon special, or... a silly superficial TV show), Che, from the stage, motions to the section "over here" (points to the side of the crowd) , "let's hear it for LGBTQIA 'Friends and Allies'" There is Miranda's son and GF. So, we know he's not gay, he's a friend. Was there ever a time or place where "friends" had their own separate section? Sloppy plot device.

I think we are supposed to disapprove of Miranda. Given this thread, we are responding just the way the writers intended.

R496 "Everyone's a critic," and bear in mind that for every positive sentence written on the Data Lounge, 50 condemning, mocking or nitpicking sentences are written.

People of the DL generally loved The White Lotus, and still 90 percent of the comments were critical by way of nitpicking, speculating what the writers had in mind and did wrong, and so on, and those who didn't like the show posted ad nauseam about how dumb everyone who did like it was. So don't take it too seriously. If reality were anything like the way people discuss it here (and elsewhere online), we would be living and burning in a fiery inferno.

I shudder to think where this show could go in season 2. Are they trying to do away with all the main trio's safety nets so that they can start season 2 single again? I might be interested in that. There could be a very interesting show about women in their 50's finding themselves single or widowed. I don't believe in the writers enough to make it compelling, though.

Michael Patrick King was on the Homophilia podcast this week and he discusses towards the end AJLT. It’s a two parter so I imagine it will continue next week. He defends the show not surprisingly, talks about how Miranda was always a nut and any press is good press. His defense however is a little backward ass in my opinion.

I can't imagine that was the writers' plans. They could have begun the season with that kind of reset having happened offscreen if they wanted to go in that direction.

Charlotte seems very happy with Harry and there's no sign of him going anywhere.

The reboot seems to be something like a Shakespeare problem play/romance, aiming for tragedy after tragedy punctuated by moments of levity and silliness, and then ending happily for all the main players.

It's certainly not a comedy anymore by any measure. Carrie's life is the aftermath of a tragedy. Miranda is a tragedy in progress. Charlotte is perpetually clueless, which is kind of sad. Everyone seems ignorant about black people sharing our planet and our cities, which feels almost surreal and certainly tragic.

The show is awkward.

The women are at an awkward time in their lives.

It kinda works, though I don’t think this was deliberate on the part of the writers.

I like that it is messy. But, I can live without Miranda’s storyline. Get her back into office intrigues.

She could have met some hot, youngish associate if they’d kept her in the office. Or show how high pressure workplaces treat older women, even partners (hint: not well.)

R502 I can't even force myself to imagine that Miranda's storyline is not the insistent idea of Cynthia Nixon. She wanted a queer storyline. I doubt she would have settled for something inside the box. Miranda's storyline isn't about Miranda having an affair; it's about Miranda's late-in-life awakening about her sexuality as a parallel to Nixon's. She had two kids with a man and then in 2004 hooked up with a gay woman. One of Nixon's kids is transgender. She is an activist and I'm certain she wanted these LGBT storylines, including Miranda's awakening, gender fluidity and raising a transgender child.

I'm beginning to think Cynthia Nixon and not just her character is a nutcase.

Kristin Davis' botox or whatever is unfortunate, it effects the way she enunciates too. But I thought the latest episode felt more like the old Charlotte.

David was adorable on Watch What Happens Live. I got the sense she is a lot like Charlotte temperamentwise but laid back and not stuck up.

I do hope the weird facial alterations are just fillers that can disperse and she'll opt not to keep them up.

Carrie and especially Miranda both look older, and they look totally fine. Charlotte is borderline disfigured because of Davis's cosmetic alterations. That could work for the storyline if Davis is brave enough to address it because Charlotte is exactly that type of society woman who would fuck up her face to fit in like the Bravo Housewives, but to ignore it is really awkward and distracting. It should be part of the storyline if she is going to keep it.

Charlotte: Sweetie, I don't know how to say this but...you have a drinking problem.

Miranda finishes her martini.

Miranda: You have an injectables problem. At leastht I can sthpeak without listhping, Tharlotte. You go to Needles Anonymous and I'll go to AA. Deal?

I’m here for ⬆️ show.

[quote]This idea that 55 YO Miranda should be exactly the same as she was as 35 seems a bit ridiculous to me.

She doesn't have to be the exact same, but 55 YO Miranda:

1. has lost about 30 IQ points at minimum (exhibit A: her first class where she acted like she never met a black person , even though she had a black boyfriend in the past)

2. Was confirmed to be HETERO, not LESBO, not BI. She tried to be in a lesbian relationship and it was made clear she is "not wired that way".

R497, I don't even think it's just DL, it's basically done on forums all over the place. I think Television Without Pity had a [italic]huge[/italic] effect on people back in the day, and we've continued with the hyper-critical nit picking since.

R482 makes so many good points. The new characters are enjoyable in spite of what they've been given. Seema especially, to me.

[quote]the fucking producers and writers need to totally, completely abandon the 'woke' lessons and just let the people of color live as human beings

This would be the dream. To lesser extents, I find TV in general struggles with this, going back for years. The audience just want to watch interesting characters, which the people who make these shows never seem to quite understand.

I thought "there's no way in hell that a woman who looked like Cynthia Nixon would IRL be infatuated with such an ugly diesel dyke like Che," and then I remembered Rojo Caliente.

I enjoy any post that runs three paragraphs and points out our verbosity.

What do CN’s kids call her wife?

Cunt

R512 Pithy.

R13, they call her Rojo Caliente!

CN really has a type. Both her ex husband and Rojo Caliente are short, dumpy, and are terrible dressers.

Interesting that her predilection crossed gender lines.

“You are seen”

R518 You are cranky.

R519 “suck my dick”

R520 2/10

R521, calculating the odds of getting aids from blowing his dad

What do we really think happened with Brenda Vaccaro's character? That can't be all there was to her. But they definitely had shot nearly all (if not all) the episodes before the Noth story came to light. So did they wind up cutting it? Or was it just lazy writing? I know Vaccaro isn't exactly a name anymore, but it's hard to believe she would take a glorified under 5 role. They do not pay guest stars on TV shows the way they used to.

Vaccaro was supposed to have been in 9 episodes of this show, per IMDB.

Maybe Brenda Vaccaro isn't well, she's pretty old now.

If it wasn't for the terrible speech she gave right before the scene with "Rambo," I would have felt a bit bad for Shady Ass. I am assuming that I will no longer feel any hint of that after next week episodes.

If you are going to blow up your life in your late 50s to be with someone else, make sure you lock them down into a commitment before you do it.

As one of the online reviews pointed pout, there isn't much chemistry between Miranda and Che. Miranda regresses into middle school, while Che seems pretty detached. Maybe she's supposed to be the ghost of Samantha's libido being poly and all, while Seema is Samantha's girlfriend vibe. She's clearly not selling any real estate with Carrie these days. Like other plot fragments, the beeping downtown place seems to have vanished as a plot device.

it's true, I don't get the slightest sense that either Miranda or Che have any real feelings for each other. It just seems like a game and a formula. Nothing is working between them other than a very forced script.

R523: IMDB does make mistakes. The publicity about Noth being a "sex pest" came out too quickly to eliminate her character. Maybe they shot more with her but as with many plot lines on this show, they truncated Carrie's "grief", which seems to vanish unless it's needed to advance some inane subplot.

Yeah, that too. They need to do something real with Carrie's grief. I get that they don't want to do big, loud, stupid, sobbing Hollywood GRIEF! That wouldn't work at all. But right now, it just seems like something that vaguely comes and goes and isn't real.

R530 the closest she came to that was that scene in the hallway of the high rise when the neighbor came out to see why she was yelling.

Yes, r531, that was something at least. It's not easy. It can't be cliche, it is real, it is hard and it's often quiet. But it is something, and right now it just seems like a big nothing in this show.

Keeping in the Big scenes would’ve helped. I hate when they treat the audience as stupid. Cause they can’t erase the 15 years he was on the original and in the movies.

And I for one can separate Mr. Big from the actor who plays him or may or may not have done something wrong. I think it's really stupid they're editing him out of the last episode. The scandal has settled, if not passed. Ok, looks like something happened. No charges yet. I also think everything was shot, edited and in the can to an extent all they could do was edit within what they had. The first episode landed Dec. 9 and this story broke Dec. 16. Cast and crew had scattered.

As to Vacarro, was she listed in every episode or was it just conjecture? Because Aiden. Although they could cap a highly flawed ten episodes with him showing up in the finale. If you look at IMDB they list Vacarro as in episodes nine and ten but not in episode eight. I bet they just copy and paste from the initial list and then edit as it goes. Vacarro was probably a bit of nostalgia casting (though God knows why) who took the part for fun or food money.

Or they could have some realism and make the big secret about Big something about sexual harassment. It would allow the show to acknowledge the obvious and Carrie could actual process having spent decades chasing/catching a perv. They also could reveal that the Branda Vaccaro character in all her even more unrequited love/devotion was a major enabler.

Editing Noth out of the finale doesn't make much difference when you consider that they won't edit him out of the original series or those awful films. There'd be no show without him.

I read some review or article once that said Noth gave every appearance at every appearance of not actually wanting the part. And he lacked charisma or something, for me, all the way through the thing. I never really cared what became of the two of them. But the character was a great idea, just he didn't make it spark. It needed a better actor. Could have been one of those parts where you take a relative nobody theatre actor and create a star. But that chance was forty years ago.

I agree that adding in a discovery of John having been a sexual abuser would add some major interest to Carrie, and it would be a good way to punish an actual sexual abuser, AND it might make all the viewers who cheered on Carrie's affair think introspectively in reflection.

Carrie needs real problems. Her husband died, but the story zoomed right past her mourning period. She is way, way, way too rich. Her life is too easy. I admit I giggled once or twice when the mystery beep was driving her crazy but that big white apartment was a non-story and an uncomfortable setting, her moving back to her little apartment makes no sense at all, and she needs something real to complicate her story.

We can't write for the writers, but imagine if Carrie put her white apartment on the market and couldn't sell it, bought a new multimillion dollar apartment, let Miranda stay in her little apartment, everything seemed great, and then she found out John's estate was being brought to court for multiple #MeToo allegations. Then Carrie would be in a bind financially, her mourning would actually be complicated, she might waver between defending and railing against John, she might lose a lot of money. Maybe her conscience would get to her and she would decide to give millions to the accusers out of guilt for the affair and being blind to her husband's nature, and that would take her wealth down to a level at which she didn't just have to blink to have all her wishes granted.

That would be a great basis for a relationship column. I'm sure her book editor would agree. Forget the fairytale with the dead husband; now we'd have the fairytale by affair, dead husband, discovering that the husband was a physical abuser, coming to terms with that fucked up relationship and her denial, giving away millions for catharsis and THEN trying to reconcile all that in order to find a decent human relationship.

^ That sounds like a lot of fun.

I was thinking the same thing R535 and R537. They should hire us as writers! A new team!

It's Sex and the City not Law & Order ripped from the headlines.

Where is this need to avenge what Noth may or may not have done via the scripts? In fairness, while I recognize it's 2022 and the cultural vibe is guilty until proven innocent, he has yet to be charged specifically with anything. It's a pretty slippery slope we're already way down, this idea that allegations = total proof of guilt. I hope we've learned that they need to handled sensitively, seriously and a thoroughly. I hope we avoid a return to Salem, as much as possible.

SJP IS rich though, as are the rest of the actors, so for them it’s probably “FINALLY we are getting some realistic storylines!”

The show hasn't done particularly well with what it's already tried to update without letting them loose on metoo.

Eek R541 that's a scary thought.

The show has reached the point having what Chuck Lorre called "the moment of shit" where "the girls" have to tell Carrie how wonderful she is. Scripts of "Cybil" always had to have something like this. Giving Carrie some real problems would be a good way to subvert this by having some dialogue that's actually about something.

You can tell who the fraus are on this thread because they project the show plots onto their empty lives.

A group of men should produce a web series parody in which men explain sexual abuses the way this series has explained that black people exist and transgenderism—with lots of awkward, uncomfortable explanations and all the women depicted solely through the lens of potential sexual abuse victims instead of fully human beings.

The more I think about it, the more bothered I am by the introduction of the black characters. I like both the actresses and their characters a lot, but Jesus, the writing goes out of its way to tell us that the professor was 'chosen' by Miranda because she is black and Charlotte seems to like her black friend from the school in spite of her being black because it seems like Charlotte sees the woman almost exclusively as "the black woman I accidentally befriended" and that drives all her insecurities. It's really fucking weird.

Even if someone from, say, Iowa made their first close black friend in 2022, I feel like they wouldn't have a meltdown over inviting the person to their home because everyone they know is white. It's so, so weird.

[quote] Giving Carrie some real problems would be a good way to subvert this by having some dialogue that's actually about something.

Under any circumstances, the sudden death of a spouse would qualify as a real problem. The real problem of the show is that it skipped over the real problems that should come with it. For an actual human being, missing the person in the home and in bed at night would be life affecting, there'd probably be a lot of irrational blame toward the spouse and self-blame and so on. Not for elderly people, but likely for someone in her 50s. The 'real problems' would be mainly emotional, and in real life in most cases also financial.

For Carrie, she did sell her apartment because she associated it too much with John and she thought it made her miss him more, so that was on the right track. But then that flipped immediately to her budding friendship with Seema and the 'joke' of the all-white apartment and beep beep beep.

The writers introduced and then aborted a good opportunity for conflict/character arc building by having Charlotte admit she feels guilty for John's death. I think in real life, most people would harbor some resentment toward the Charlotte who guilted her into delaying leaving and thus created the situation in which John died. But Carrie had no such feelings. What if she had? By admitting it to Charlotte, she would both deepen Charlotte's guilt and probably make her feel defensive, and conflict would follow that could be resolved later. A temporary distance among all three of the main players would give opportunities to see their new friends support them and get closer, and also would lead to an inevitable happy reunion after some time passed.

R546, I agree. Charlotte and LTW could have just become friends (or LTW was the constantly social climbing Charlotte's prey - which would have been hysterical if LTW had then resisted her.) The prof and Miranda could have bonded over their shared intelligence, not Chucky. They had to hammer those friendships into place so inelegantly and now there's not a lot of places to go. LTW - and viewers - should be offended by the notion "Harry, we need friends of color!"

This series was so badly thought through. Too much focus on winning praise for representation, nowhere near enough thinking about human beings within stories. I wish they'd give us a season two to ten with good stories. The canvas is there. The art isn't.

R546: Yeah, Charlotte seems like something out of 1962 and some cringeworthy essay in a women's magazine about "my first Negro friend".

R547, agree, agree, agree. They could have achieved so much with silence. Shot of Carrie alone in bed. Shot of Carrie alone in the apartment - hearing a noise. Shot of Carrie looking at that shower. Carrie getting rid of the Peleton. Carrie should have been the boozer. Carrie should have got a 'give my daughter the shot!' moment. So much wasted opportunity. I bet money all that mattered to them was trying to erase the shit kicking their egos took over that gawdawful second movie.

Well,it is supposed to be a comedy—I think. I was insulted by the way they handled Miranda giving up drinking by just pouring out the alcohol and that was that! Iknow alcoholics who really struggle with the physical and mental withdrawals, but I suppose that may be too “heavy” or something.

I gave up my heterosexuality even easier!

I wish they'd do an episode where Miranda goes to the dentist to deal with those two gray front teeth.

R551: Given the tone, esp. of the first few episodes, it's not clear that this is supposed to be a comedy. It is supposed to be a break with SATC and to deal with the supposed problems of 50-something women. OTOH, it's not a "warmedy" like old sitcoms such as "Leave it to Beaver" or "The Donna Reed Show" that mixed gentle humor with sometimes real problems and it doesn't have the mix of drama and comic absurdity of a show like "LA Law"., unless you count the absurdity that critics and message boards have identified. Instead it's soap opera with elliptical plots and the occasional quip---"Soap" without the satire and great character players.

It's no secret who took it to its peak and drove it into the ditch, yet they persist with this creative team. If the investors didn't make changes after that second movie, they seem to feel as it is will generate sufficient return. Stumps me but I'm on a message board and they're making the decisions so maybe I don't get it.

This Show was never about real problems. The most serious stuff anyone went through was Samantha’s cancer. We are all trying to shoehorn serious plots into a show that was never that. And as a fan I would never want to watch Carrie being lonely and sad, or any long term boozers.

R544, you're probably the fifth person who pointed out this phenomenon. In fact, you probably read it about it on this thread!

R546, get over it. The blacks left the building a few episodes ago.

Is it supposed to be a comedy?

If so, they seem to be aiming for a “Grace &Frankie” mix of comedy snd heavy stuff. But AJLT’s writers aren’t as good.

R547, that's a good idea actually. Let the grief and the issues develop so that the women are turning away from each other, and befriending others. That would make the new characters seem much less shoe-horned.

R559, I think the problem might be that this was written during the pandemic, with each writer taking an episode, and loosely tying it together over Teams chat, instead of truly brainstorming and editing, the way it should be done.

Every story goes nowhere except the one you wish you weren't seeing (Miranda and Che).

[quote]that's a good idea actually. Let the grief and the issues develop so that the women are turning away from each other, and befriending others. That would make the new characters seem much less shoe-horned.

It'd also be interesting to then see the new characters and how they interact with the other friends once the core group are back together again, if these new characters are first developed properly. What does Carrie think of LTW? What does Charlotte think of Nya, and Miranda think of Seema, or something like that.

I saw someone arguing recently that the new characters are all attempts by the trio of finding someone to fit the Samantha role in their lives. Which is a really interesting idea, but is this the case in reality? Carrie with Seema, sure, I get that. But are Nya and LTW filling the role that Samantha used to play for Miranda and Charlotte? I don't really see that.

I always thought Charlotte and Samantha strove to tolerate each other and not much more. Samantha and Miranda had similar views on most things but Samantha had a self-confidence and a warmth the exposed raw nerve Miranda could never match.

Seema's similar to Samantha in her confidence but she's not a sexual Olympian. Seema's kind of like Carrie too because she seems to love all that shallow NYC shit. (I did think it was kind of cougary sad they are clubbing in the next episode.) Samantha seemed to take the superficial stuff much less seriously (except for that horrible episode about the portal to hell, Soho Club and the Birkin.) She did the rounds, but the thing that really seemed to spark her imagination was fucking her way through Manhattan, God bless her.

556: They kill off Big right away , they introduce a certain amount of social issue stuff, there's constant yammering about age-0--it's meant to be more serious than SATC, hence the name change.

R557: I saw it on Lorre's TV academy interview.

This lists renewed or canceled HBO Max series and it lists AJLT as just a miniseries.

I bet Miranda will find Che Guevara with another woman

What's in the pastry box? Nutloaf?

This will have another season.

With Che’s unpopularity it is doubtful that character will be back. Her and Miranda are done after this season.

We can only hope R569.

Che is universally loathed. She is obnoxious.

Che's amazing!

I have had dreams about them!

They ooze sex from the mohawk all the way down to the flatted-topped leathery toenails.

Che.

Just the name makes my loins sizzle like bacon fat on a griddle.

Che.

Like a tsunami wave of passion easily frazzling all my senses with one hit and dragging them out to sea to finish off.

Che.

The new name of Dionysos, whose beauty was only eclipsed by their intoxicating universal beauty.

Che.

Never before has such a vision appeared on our television screens.

Never before have we been given a figure so worthy of worship. Not one so true. Not one so pure.

Che!

[quote]I bet Miranda will find Che Guevara with another woman

I bet it's another man. Or both. Or some strange hybrid.

About Che's future... if I was Sara Rodriguez, I'd want to move on from this mess. It's got to be unpleasant being the focus of so much negative attention, both trollwise or reviewwise, and who wants a string of future press and reviews to always include the line "Rodriguez, who in 2022 created the controversial character Che in HBO's failed Sex and the City revival..."

The romance with Che will run its course. Their idea of a relationship isn't Miranda's. Steve will vanish after the divorce and Brady will return only if they need him as a plot device. Miranda will have some other failed relationship if the show is renewed---if Seema is still around, may be it will be with her. There's always Brenda Vaccaro, because she clearly needs a mother figure.

Che was ejaculated from the Pleroma fully formed, in one great holy belch.

They are one and the same with the Holy Spirit, except evolved beyond even God's own imagined potential.

They represent the potential of humanity, one too potent for any one of us to attain, but giving us hope that if all eight billion of us learn to live in harmony, our collective voices may yet attain a drop of their divinity!

Che is a repackaging of Big John.

Miranda is acting recklessly and self-destructively in much the same way Carrie did. Carrie also had dreadfully boring but loving boyfriends and she rejected them to chase around a jackass of a married dude because she craved his big dick and his many millions so she could buy more overpriced shoes. She also hurt people in her life and she hurt herself, and audiences cheered her on and the writer gods gave her a happy ending with Prince Charming. Karma burped out Che, the ugly spirit of Big, to punish the writers for their immoral acts of making Big seem like a dreamboat.

So Big was Leland Palmer and Che is Bob and AJLT is actually David Lynch trying to write linear.

Makes as much sense as anything else.

Che as Big makes perfect sense. Unattainable partners played by uncharismatic actors.

I don't think I'll understand the Che/Miranda thing until it plays out - and am part of the camp who thinks this is Cynthia Nixon forcing her life story into the series so not sure it can play out as other than a happy ending (God forbid these two drag on for years like Big and Carrie.) But I do not get how someone as "charismatic" as Che then falls head over Doc Martin's for a mousy, neurotic, at risk of bursting Miranda, let alone rapidly.

Che is horribly written. Everything starts from the assumption of the writers that they need to Say Something Current And Important.

Then they literally make the characters recite that current and important thing in dialogue.

There is a way to make Che interesting, and when the conversation moved from the stage to one-on-one, Che was more interesting.

R579 She managed to get that ginger dude in real life.

When

We

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Here

,

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Can

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8

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Can

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Found

Right

Here

Part 8 is below