THEATRE GOSSIP #450: Roundabout Usher Tells Tommy Tune To Piss Up A Rope Edition

I find scary old Bway usher ladies kind of fascinating.

Back in the 90s, a theatre friend told me that a lot of them were "Westie girls," ie, former molls of the infamous Irish-American organized crime street gang from the 1960s. They all grew up in Hells Kitchen and Chelsea and were tougher than nails. The usher jobs were easy money, as they had no other (legal) skills.

Don't fuck with an old-time Bway usher. She will cut a bitch.

Betty was going to replace Lucy in Wildcat but Allen talked her out of it.

Betty could have done “Hello Dolly” or “The Matchmaker.”

Was Betty more of a Sally? Or a Phyllis?

Broadway needs a revival of The Kentucky Cycle.

Betty played Dolly for Kenley. She also did King and I.

There was a Betty White in the chorus of a flop Broadway musical called My Best Girl back in 1912.

It's CLUE, the latest screen-to-stage adaptation you never knew you wanted and needed!

(Except it's not really a musical.)

[quote] a lot of them were "Westie girls," ie, former molls of the infamous Irish-American organized crime street gang from the 1960s.

Times Square was so fascinating years ago. In addition to the Broadway ushers, I always found interesting the women who worked the box office at porn theaters. They were always older and I wonder if they were showgirls or escorts at one point. I think some of them were purposely slow while the men were trying to hurry up and get inside before they were seen.

It's early in the thread, so I can maybe get away with it, but I think TV comedy lost something when it moved away from actors who conceivably could have done summer stock.

[quote]Stro's successors: Christopher Gattelli, Andy Blankenbeuhler, Sergio Trujillo, Joshua Bergasse and certainly Kathleen Marshall and Rob Ashford, all began as choreographers (and all the men were Broadway chorus dancers) who had some brief great success but then ultimately failed as directors.

To date, Gattelli, Trujillo, and Bergasse have not directed any Broadway shows, so your comment is a little weird.

Imagine actors today on the Kenley circuit? Cynthia Nixon IS Mame!

Patricia Heaton in Come Back Little Sheba.

Jesus, Doc, why can’t you be normal? Is it too much to ask to use a plate? Now I have to clean up this mess.

I don't think she wanted to live in New York, OP.

[quote] I don't think she wanted to live in New York, OP.

Or maybe she thought if she did, Arlene Francis could kick her ass.

If Howard Keel was gay, and he married Tommy Steele, he'd be Howard Keel Steele.

Betty White played The Muny will her husband in "Bells Are Ringing"

If Janie Dee married Kevin Kline, she’d be Janie Dee Kline.

If Tamara Tunie married Tommy Tune at a performance of "Annie" , she be known as Looney Tamara "Tomorrow" Tunie Tune.

If Betty White marries Janet Weiss from "Rocky Horror", she could have white rice thrown at her as she was now known as Betty White-Weiss!

Wasn't one of the actors playing one of the Indians (Native Americans) in Tommy Tune-helmed "Will Rogers Follies" showing his butt on the stage near the beginning of the show? Didn't he become well-known, too?

Chief Shining Moon?

Cute, R19.

That naked Indian was Jerry Mitchell and he was gorgeous

Speaking of Jerry, he should be mentioned when talking about dancers to choreographers to directors. Not to mention Casey Nicholaw. Okay, short of the masters, but pre-pandemic, they worked pretty steadily.

The previous theater gossip thread ended abruptly without a "Bajour"!

I don't know about earlier in her career, but I just listened to a 1987 Fresh Air interview, and she said didn't want to be away from home because she liked her home and wanted to live in it.

Has there been a show about all the folks who make the show happen? If not, there should be.

Start with a spotlight on an usher hissing at an audience member whose phone is out. Then she starts to sing her scold and the other ushers join her as they walk to the stage.

Basically, a deeper version of Chorus Line.

Or maybe it's been done.

Betty fostered /adopted many many dogs over the years. Much easier to do in LA than in NYC.

The way Broadway is going with Covid, R28, the ushers, stage managers and sound and lighting crew might be the only people left TO be on the stage.

Just to concur with all the others, I remember an interview she did when she hosted SNL where she said she was always more of an LA person than a New York person (and her agent said she didn't even want to go to New York to do it). Makes sense since she grew up there.

[quote] Speaking of Jerry, he should be mentioned when talking about dancers to choreographers to directors. Not to mention Casey Nicholaw. Okay, short of the masters, but pre-pandemic, they worked pretty steadily.

Those two have probably done the best and made the most, although whether they're any talent is to be debated. Kinky and Blonde and Hairspray (even though he only choreographed) have made Jerry rich, and Aladdin, Mean Girls and Mormon have made Nicholaw very very rich.

r6 here's Betty in King and I with some white people in yellowface

Ted White sounds authentic. Different times, different times. Can you imagine getting away with this today?

Young people may not know this but until Betty White played Sue Ann Nivens and reinvented her career, she was basically just perceived as a sweet if rather bland TV game show panelist and mediocre variety show guest. Kind of like Arlene Francis, mostly famous for being famous, but without the naughty sophisticated NY wit.

In spite of her very long history of appearing in television from its earliest years, she simply wasn't given roles or opportunities that truly allowed her incredibly sharp comedic timing to be seen and heard. So I don't think she would have been a particularly big draw on Broadway before her MTM rediscovery and by then, she was too busy with TV for the rest of her life.

There may be posters here who will disagree with this assessment, but unless you're over 70 like me....well, you just had to be there...

That makes sense r35

Stroman was notorious for not allowing input from anyone else on any given show's production team. Big Fish had its problems, for instance, but Susan refused to try anything that wasn't her idea. That show could have been saved.

Big Fish didn't have a prayer. It was so over written, and it had flawed narrative/time concept that kept pulling that audience out of the show. The second number for former DL fave Bobby Steggart was so overwrought it was like hearing Rose's Turn in the first 10 minutes.

I went to see Ghetto at Circle in the Square some decades ago. It was about the Jewish Warsaw ghetto in the 1930s. My friend and I didn’t know if it was a straight play or not, we’d just come straight from the TKTS booth. We asked our Thelma Ritter-type usher if it was a musical. She responded “I’ll only say this-it ain’t an uppah.” Which could have meant either “opera” or “upper.” And indeed the show was neither.

I think Big Fish was the reason Bobby left the business and became a social worker.

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1976, "Pacific Overtures" opened at the Winter Garden Theatre.

Anyone see SEARCH FOR SIGNS OF INTELLIGENT LIFE AT THE SHED?

A few years after Big Fish, Bobby Steggert starred on Broadway with Tyne Daly and Frederick Weller as Weller's young husband in Terrence McNally's Mothers and Sons so he was still in the business then. Lovely play but a disappointing short run so maybe that's what finally pushed Bobby to seek other satisfactions.

I do like how R35's post illustrates his point by a comparison with Arlene Francis. That'll surely be of help to those young people the post was aimed at.

Well, hey, R44, I got it and I’m in my 40s. Considering what we’re discussing, I’d say that counts.

Well, who would I have compared Betty to today, r44? I guess there are celebrities now who are mostly merely famous for being famous - Real Housewives and other reality stars come to mind - but there's NO ONE similar to what Betty or Arlene were like in the 1950s/60s. Gracious ladies who could charm with small talk.

Arlene really was an actress first, though people like me who were born in the 50's only knew her as a panelist. (Hey, she was in The Women on Broadway!) Though Betty did a sitcom early on, she really was first and formost a TV personality until MTM.

some people are just bored and looking to pick a fight where none exists. Witness: r44.

Someone should write a book about the history of the Broadway director-choreographer from 1970-2020; Michael Bennett to Jerry Mitchell. The last page can have a razor blade taped to it and instructions for slitting your wrists in the bathtub. Cuz Jesus, what a depressing slide it’s been…

CHICAGO welcomes d'Amboise, Marroquín extends Posted by: Official_Press_Release 10:11 am EST 01/10/22 BROADWAY'S TONY AWARD-WINNING, RECORD-BREAKING HIT MUSICAL CHICAGO WELCOMES BACK Charlotte d'Amboise AS ROXIE HART CELEBRATING 25 YEARS WITH THE PRODUCTION

Bianca Marroquín EXTENDS AS VELMA KELLY CELEBRATING 20 YEARS WITH THE PRODUCTION

I love Charlotte and she's a good Roxie but this seems all kinds of crazy too.

[quote]Kind of like Arlene Francis, mostly famous for being famous,

Again, r35, Arlene was very popular in radio and was in 26 Broadway shows. She may have only made a handful of movies, but she was *hardly* "famous for being famous". She wasn't Zsa Zsa.

R48 I didn't realise this was the kind of thread where you have to point out where you're joking. Nor that R45/R46 would be so thin-skinned.

[quote]and by then, she was too busy with TV for the rest of her life.

She didn't want to live in NYC, r35. It's why she turned down the Today Show.

it was the tone more than anything, r44/r52

[quote] That'll surely be of help

r28 I thought the tv show SMASH was going to incorporate some of that into the story. The stage manager and others getting stories and being a part of setting the whole atmosphere of working on a show.

A least I was hoping for that, missed opportunity.

Smash was a veritable minefield of missed oportunities.

If Cynthia Erivo is cast as Florence I’ll picket.

Oh, hell, must watch Smash again. Never , in the history of Television, has my jaw hit the floor so many times.

You might want to do a cost-benefit analysis before you go proclaiming your bigotry outside a NYC theater. R57

And now for news that no one asked for. . .

Sierra Boggess is engaged to be married.

r44/r51, you really are tiresome and ill-informed.

Arlene may have appeared in 26 Broadway shows but none of them were hits, ran for more than a few months, if that, except for 1936's The Women, in which she was merely a member of a large ensemble and long before anyone had ever heard of her.

The point is, few Americans knew of her stage credits and were only fans through her TV appearances on What's My Line?, talk shows and PERHAPS her radio programing (all local to the NY tri-state area). To most Americans she was the very definition of "famous for being famous".

Perhaps the best comparison would be Kelly Ripa. And how many people think of her a s a soap opera actress any more?

And that's not meant as a criticism of Arlene, I'm a huge fan.

Fuck off, R59.

Here’s Erivo fucking up the lyrics of “Someone Else’s Story”:

[quote]If Cynthia Erivo is cast as Florence I’ll picket.

That would be an outrage! She's not Russian!! WE REQUIRE ABSOLUTE AUTHENTICITY IN CASTING!!!!! Oh, but not always.....

You are wrong and a blowhard, r61.

Someone should shoot her eh r63? Singers never fuck up lyrics! It just never happens except to Erivo.

We get it, you don't like CE, other people don't like her either. Same goes for LMM, we get it.

PLEASE keep your hatred to yourself it adds nothing to the conversation here.

If you must vent why not start a thread about most despised Broadway people and spare the rest of us.

I have theatre tix for tomorrow night (off-Bway, not terribly expensive) and I'm thinking of not going. Is anything worth the risk of exposure on a subway and the theatre, even masked?

Thoughts, TG friends?

oh, shut the fuck up, R66. Take your sensitive bullshit elsewhere.

Wow, R66, you don’t quite grasp the concept of DL, do you?

R66 A hall monitor, oh, this will end poorly.

R67. Go. Double mask on subway and keep your gloves on. The majority of people I’ve seen on the subway over the past few weeks are masked. I stand because people are starting to sit on top of eachother again. Be safe and have a good time.

[quote]I have theatre tix for tomorrow night (off-Bway, not terribly expensive) and I'm thinking of not going. Is anything worth the risk of exposure on a subway and the theatre, even masked?

If you don't go to the theater, does that mean you will never leave your home and will avoid all contact with all other human beings who have been in the outside world for the foreseeable future? Because if you don't do all of that, I don's understand your criteria for avoiding infection.

R28 "Me and Juliet" was about the making of a Broadway show with various backstage people given roles as well as the people playing various roles within the show within the show. It's so rarely done, I've never even seen a regional production or showcase of it being announced. It has some good songs though.

I never miss a Shirley MacLaine musical, r73...

It was more quite a Bigley show though.

R&H weren't successful in contemporary settings.

Bigley!

"South Pacific" was pretty contemporary and a big hit.

But it was in an exotic setting, r78.

r68 go fuck yourself asshole.

Not everyone wants to come in this thread and scroll past unhinged hateful dialogue that people like you love to indulge in. If you weren't so stupid you understand that.

Suck my dick r70 you festering butt blister

So, the rancor begins. You bitchy sorts are why we can't have nice Theatre Gossip threads.

R82 Oh, please. 'Unhinged, hateful dialogue...' If this child is twiggered by adult discussion, and fun mocking of how shit Broadway is now, and the failure of all the new plays that are just polemics, they will be torn apart.

[Quote] The majority of people I’ve seen on the subway over the past few weeks are masked.

R71 that’s true in the heart of Manhattan, but it varies a lot by neighborhood and where you’re coming from. We don’t know where r67 might be coming from. R72, you’re ridiculous. Sitting in a big room with 1000+ other people, many in mere cloth masks, for 2½ hours is not exactly the same as “all contact with other human beings.”

Nothing wrong with being twiggered, r83.

The word “twiggered” must somehow be used in the next title for this thread.

There's *triggered* and there's...

Next show to go down?

Tommy Tune gets Twiggered!

....you bastards.

Marcia...so what?

Is TWIGS revivable? Was it really that good the first time around?

I predict "Come From Away" "Tina" and "MJ" will all close in January. When you look at their seat maps, they are empty.

I think I saw Susan Anton do it on the Kenley circuit, R92. Not good.

R92 It wasn't good with Carol Burnett on TV; I recall she even gotten some middling to negative notices.

Betty...cha cha cha

We've come quite a long way since 1959, r96, though I'm not sure in the right direction.

Thanks for posting.

Has this already been posted? Jack Viertel is retiring:

[Quote] predict "Come From Away" "Tina" and "MJ" will all close in January. When you look at their seat maps, they are empty.

R93, “MJ” hasn’t even [italic] opened [/italic] yet!

Interesting that MJ that there's apparently so little interest in MJ. I don't know that Covid can be entirely blamed.

And I'm guessing the reviews won't change that. I'm sure the producers must have thought they had a sure thing.

I cannot believe I’m saying this, but I’ve heard it’s good. I’m not rooting for it but I know a few people who have liked it, and went with low expectation.

Is Dear Evan Hansen rallying or is it still on the touch-and-go list?

from a survey of Evan Hanson's its hard to tell...But its not full, or even 70 percent, that's for sure. The Bob Dylan thing looks doomed also.

So are other shows going to follow Doubtfire's lead and announce a "hiatus"?

I know several people who saw workshops (and invested) and believe MJ would be a huge hit, even after the recent HBO doc. I said “Uh, he was a pedophile…,” they said “The international audience (for Chicago) doesn’t care,” I said, “Maybe.” It seems aiming for an international traveler market during a huge covid spike it isn’t working out.

Review: SNL's Cecily Strong in "Search for Signs of Intelligent Life in the Universe":

Here is the Times review and proof positive that Miss Green has completely lost her ability to write coherently

This just in. Seth Sikes to be Beanie Feldstein's standby

He's like half her size.

A Broadway transfer for The Search for Signs is inevitable, right? The Broadhurst? The Schoenfeld, nee Plymouth (if Come From Away closes)? The Music Box (if DEH closes)?

I just remember Lily Tomlin changing characters every half-minute or 10 seconds or so, usually accompanied by different lighting to help you remember which character she was playing. She was impressive, but I don't recall what the show was about.

Entertainment was so much different back in the "mid century times". You had whole classes of performers who don't really exist anymore. There were "Broadway" stars who were big names known to everyone but mostly known for being major theater stars. And, the night club/Vegas people. And, the "professional guest star" class of people who never/seldom got to headline their own hit show but just floated around as a "star" doing guest spots, game shows, talk shows and summer stock. Like Betty White who also had "professional parade host" on her skill list. She was over 50 when the MTM Show changed her life and how she was perceived by audiences.

Those reviews for Search for Signs... are not transfer-worthy. But then they have to put something on Broadway and a one woman show seems to be Covid proof, right?

What's at the Booth?

It sounds from these 2 at least that Strong isn't as magical, they're are fewer characters (some removed for PC or timeliness reasons), and that it doesn't have the light touch it has before. Plus we're now all uncomfortable about a homeless woman and aren't allowed to find her (like everything else in the world) funny. I can't wait

[quote] What's at the Booth?

For Colored Girls... is opening there in the spring.

Maybe they should do these in rep. There won't be enough demand to sustain either.

In this climate, "For Colored Girls" is doomed. When did it become a thing that every show that gets good reviews off Broadway MUST come to Broadway?

R117, the late 1970s

Have DOUBTFIRE's return tickets gone on sale yet?

They are on sale and there are plenty available...

Cecily Strong is immensely likeable and has been doing much of the heavy lifting on SNL for years. She's hard-working and dependable.

But is she a star? SCHMIGADOON (not anyone's finest hour, mind you) suggests otherwise.

I think she's talented. I'm just not sure she has... IT.

Not one of those reviews warrant a move to Broadway. Every single one proclaims the material dated.

Didn't Tomlin herself do a revival of this a few years ago?

This is a fun new trend. Resell you flop musical as an NFT. I'm in for the CARRIE NFT.

[quote] Didn't Tomlin herself do a revival of this a few years ago?

over two decades ago, if that's "a few"

Uggh. I found THE WRONG MAN so disappointing. Don't need to see it again in any form, I think.

R117 I think they just want the distinction of being on Broadway, no matter the cost(s).

R121 Ugh, “immensely likable,” is that a quote from one of the reviews?

What's an 'NFT musical'?

[quote] I think they just want the distinction of being on Broadway, no matter the cost(s).

I agree. They can then market the show as “Broadway” when trying to grab royalties from college and community theater productions.

[quote] I think she's talented. I'm just not sure she has... IT.

Good point. Kate McKinnon isn’t as good an actress as Strong is, but Kate McKinnon has “it” - she’s got star quality.

Although I like them, for me both McKinnon and Strong are both just okay.

Kate McKinnon for a revival of The Unsinkable Molly Brown! Or Redhead.

I was dragged to the Tomlin revival of Search in 2001 by a friend who had comps. We were in the back row of the mezzanine. I am so happy I went because I loved it. Tomlin was amazing, even 15 yrs after the fact. I can't see it working with anyone else.

Girl from the North Country closing in 2 weeks but reopening in the Spring.

You know the guy who called the other fellow a "butt blister" must be prone to them.

Does this mean Patti Lu is heading back to TV?

Wasn't she miserable on that show and actually departed before the series ended (i.e., left on bad terms)?

[quote]Life Goes On is inching a step further toward a return to primetime.

No mention of whether Corky will return. It seems like they stole his show and are making it about the sister.

And nobody wants to see a reboot of this show!

[quote]Wasn't she miserable on that show and actually departed before the series ended (i.e., left on bad terms)?

Patti is miserable in everything she does. Evita was too difficult to sing, Les Miz she had to be in the chorus after she died, Anything Goes was too much tapping (Merman didn't tap), Oliver involved children.

And I personally watched her bitch to the prop dyke on Law & Order about having to carry a briefcase in a scene. And the prop dyke told her to carry the fucking briefcase.

Please do not eviscerate me because I didn't read all of the previous few threads, but whatever happened with that Diana debacle attempting to actually open after the Netflix abomination?

R137 I thought her character got violently stabbed to death and enviscerated?

Mockingbird shutting down Jan 16 and reopening in June. Welcome to broadway Greg Kinnear!

GIRL FROM THE NORTH COUNTRY is shutting down too. Hoping to reopen in the Spring.

Final performances of Daniel Fish’s production of Wokelahoma! at the Young Vic in London in late June will apparently be filmed. Is Ali Stroker going over there for it?

Some Broadway Queen TikToker via Chicago was going on about some controversial production of Oklahoma there, but wouldn’t come out and say what the controversy was. What makes it controversial?

I’ve read interviews where Patti said she loved being in that production of Anything Goes. I never read her bitching about the tapping.

[quote]Les Miz she had to be in the chorus after she died

She was meant to be, but she constantly avoided doing it and they eventually gave up trying to force her to. The same woman who then bitched about the lack of professionalism from the rest of the cast on Anything Goes.

Had she already signed up for Anything Goes when Les Mis went to DC and then New York or was she not asked?

R135/R144 Mockingbird will reopen at the Belasco in June, Girl from North Country at an as-of-yet unannounced theatre

The press release announcing the closing of TO KILL A MOCKINGBIRD this Sunday, and the plans to reopen it at the Belasco on June 1, describes MOCKINGBIRD as the "most successful American play in Broadway history."

LIFE WITH FATHER and TOBACCO ROAD both ran about seven and a half years, to name only two. If the MOCKINGBIRD producers are not judging success by length of run, what are they judging it by? Dollars earned? And has that figure been adjusted for inflation and the very steep rise in ticket prices that have occurred between the 1930s-40s and now?

R142 It got terrible reviews and closed after 33 performances.

WOn't they have to release everyone after a certain amount of time on Mockingbird and then start from scratch?

Has Judy Kaye played Madame Morrible yet? Is it inevitable that she’ll join Wicked at some point.

Poor Greg Kinnear. He was scheduled to start in April 2020. Now he gets to do 2 weeks and shut down and come back in June.

I wonder if the League and the unions are making new rules for these hiatuses. I think three shows have now announced hiatuses -- MOCKINGBIRD, GIRL FROM THE NORTH COUNTRY, and MRS. DOUBTFIRE.

r154 is your Google broken?

My guess is that they will bring in the touring company of Mockingbird.

[italic] Mockingbird [/italic] is the only one of the three whose plans sound firm. [italic] Doubtfire [/italic] said it wants to reopen, and [italic] North Country [/italic] says it hopes to return.

Does Greg Kinnear have Covid? A FaceBook friend posted that he was out of the show last night. And I thought that might have pushed the show to go on hiatus.

Someone posted here or elsewhere that Kinnear does or did recently have COVID. Not surprising if true, as it seems almost everyone has recently had it.

Unless I read it wrong, I thought the idea is that Country is closing, then coming back for a few late spring weeks at the Belasco. Once it closes for good, Mockingbird will reopen (for just the summer?) at the Belasco. Either way, it sounds like the Belasco and Shubert would be vacant by Labor Day.

[quote] I’ve read interviews where Patti said she loved being in that production of Anything Goes. I never read her bitching about the tapping.

You can hear her bellow “Oh, God” while she’s performing at the Tony Awards. The *Tony Awards* on national tv of all places Listen at 2:57. She hated the tap portion but she hated ceding center stage to the chorus even more.

Is it just me or Broadway fucking bleak right now?

What happens to the Mockingbird/North Country/Doubtfire people? Do they get paid at all?

I wish Girl From the North Country had waited longer or gone into Circle in the Square. It’s a shame to see this happen to a show and cast that was successful in multiple productions.

R164, it's not "just you," and why the hell would you think it's just you? Things are obviously very bad right now, though not AS bad as when we had a complete shut-down of all shows for over a year.

What’s interesting is that on Facebook all the Broadway shows are advertising “Tickets Available This Week”

So what candidates are there for the Shube? Can funny girl or Billy Crystal move? Britney Spears?

R164 The Doubtfire cast and crew are not getting paid, that's been confirmed. I'd suspect it's the same for the other two, but that hasn't been confirmed anywhere.

The League made a proposal to Equity about paying half-rate for cancelled shows, which was rejected outright. I do wonder when the conversation is going to be had about cast and crew behaviour outside of the theatre, as it seems plenty of them aren't taking the fullest measures to ensure they don't catch anything. Just a quick look at Instagram stories show plenty socialising without masks, etc.

Reopening on June 1 is the first plan that makes sense, given that the summer has been the low point of COVID in the past two years and that cases are clearly going to go down over the next several months ...

When are the Tony Awards scheduled for this year? Wasn’t the plan to have them in June again?

Who cares about the fucking Tony Awards when so many shows are closing down and many can't even open?? Broadway is still in chaos and those meaningless awards are not a priority for anyone seriously in the business.

Amen, R172

Yes, by all means let's have the Tony Awards. We're just burning to give Chicken n Biscuits Best Play and Mrs. Doubtfire Best Musical.

Let's be real here. Girl From The North Country isn't coming back, and neither is Doubtfire, no matter how much bullshit they trumpet in the press releases. In any other year, pre-pandemic, GFTNC would have closed in January anyway. Doubtfire would have normally eked out a run until maybe March. Bye bye, poppins.

Who the fuck wants to see some washed-up talk show host play Atticus Finch? Yes, he does have Covid, but he wasn't going to sell tickets in advance, so they combined the two events, will close the show, re-open at the Belasco (which is a better fit for it), then announce Greg has scheduling conflicts, and bring in Richard Thomas for the summer before he goes on tour. My guess is they'll close around Labor Day, or maybe someone will get smart and hire a real actor to replace Thomas before he hits the road. Kinnear was never going to survive the rigors of 8 shows a week.

[quote]Who the fuck wants to see some washed-up talk show host play Atticus Finch? Yes, he does have Covid, but he wasn't going to sell tickets in advance...

Interesting that the NY Times article about this didn't even mention that Kinnear had missed some performances recently, and whether or not that was due to COVID.

Word spreads quickly around the Rialto when a leading actor gets sick.

[quote]My guess is they'll close around Labor Day, or maybe someone will get smart and hire a real actor to replace Thomas before he hits the road.

Richard Thomas isn't a "real actor"? Um, okay.

Showtune queens are weird.

It does, r177?

R178, my impression was that R175 meant that Thomas is a real actor and that the producers should hire another real actor to replace him once he's gone (as opposed to Kinnear).

[quote]Is it just me or Broadway fucking bleak right now?

Maybe they should all try to get Kanye to pay a visit:

Inside the Brutal Economics of Broadway’s Omicron Shutdowns:

Isn’t the whole idea that The Girl From the North Country is robust and strong and survives the trials and tribulations that bury others? Doesn’t she need to come back, just based on that?

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 2015, "Constellations" starring Ruth Wilson and Jake Gyllenhaal opened at the St. James Theatre.

[quote] Kinnear was never going to survive the rigors of 8 shows a week.

I'm neutral on him, but how do you know this?

Constellations was at the Friedman, as part of the MTC season.

Is anyone else surprised by the look of MJ here? Smaller cast than I expected. I'm assuming the street-clothes are specific to the curtain call and megamix ([italic] lord, does every show have to have a damn megamix??[/italic]), but the set and design seem like so....little.

Does Jeremy actually expect us to believe people are buying tickets to Slave Play because Kanye went?

Did people buy tickets the first time when Rihanna went and caused a commotion?

[quote]Does Jeremy actually expect us to believe people are buying tickets to Slave Play because Kanye went?

He sure seems to be one of the biggest assholes to hit Broadway in years.

O Ye of little faith.

"Kan we talk?" - Joan Rivers

[quote]Isn’t the whole idea that The Girl From the North Country is robust and strong and survives the trials and tribulations that bury others? Doesn’t she need to come back, just based on that?

Or she's a survivor because she's lost her mind? Either metaphor works here.

I just watched The Humans. Absolutely putrid, but I was surprised to see the wealth of good reviews it got. For some reason I was under the impression the film was roundly panned.

[quote] Does Jeremy actually expect us to believe people are buying tickets to Slave Play because Kanye went?

But to be honest, quadrupling sales of 50 per performance only gets you to 200 per performance (in a theater with 1,222 seats).

Bet they regret the set design using mirrors now.

Interesting letter from Sondheim to Prince just after Sweeney opened, currently on display at the NYPL at Lincoln Center

R175 Wow. You're just kind of an asshole, aren't you?

Didn't Prince feel that he'd never gotten his head around Sweeney? Or maybe that was Follies. There's clearly some awkwardness in that letter, along with affection.

R197-Nope. Just in the business a very long time.

[quote][R197]-Nope. Just in the business a very long time.

Potay-to potah-to.

It's Rip Taylor's birthday today! Did any of your eldergays see him in Sugar Babies or the FORUM tour? I heard he was actually quite excellent in the former...

It's also Charles Nelson Reilly's birthday too. Go figure that these two camp icons would share the same day of birth!

My favorite part of r175's post is the "Bye bye, poppins," which just makes him/her sound like an idiot. Presumably he meant "poppets," the term used in the movie and show. The idea that someone actually thinks poppins makes sense in that context is hilarious. (Is he addressing a group of literal Marys?)

A flibbertigibbet.

A will-o'-the-wisp.

A clown!

I wonder who Sondheim's sharp-eyed friend Nancy was, the one who thought the second-act pies should look baked and noticed the discrepancy in the books in the chute. Maybe she used to work in props like I did; little visual mistakes like that make my eyes twitch.

Does thanking someone for a gift but saying you'd have preferred something else count as 'thank you for the present but what's wrong with it' stuff?

R202-Is that you, Singapore Sling?

R202-Triggered much?

[quote] Who the fuck wants to see some washed-up talk show host play Atticus Finch?

Maybe the people who are informed enough to know that at this point he’s had a 25+ year career in films, including awards and an Oscar nomination. It’s been a long time since thd term “talk show host” was thd best descriptor for him.

[quote] "Bye bye, poppins,"

Well said!

Is Leigh Silverman any good?

Greg Kinnear is definitely out of Mockingbird for the rest of this week. Understudy Christopher Innvar is on

So Greg was cast two years ago and has done the part like 7 times

It's a living!

WHET Ann Jillian?

I always thought Ann Jillian would have made a great Mama Rose.

Sad news about critic Terry Teachout’s death. I liked his reviews even when I didn’t agree with him.

The person who asked is "Leigh Silverman any good" did not see her "Sweet Charity." I'm still trying to stop my eyes from bleeding.

and as I predicted a few threads back, LA Hamilton bites the dust.

This was because the cast wanted more Covid protocols?

There's lots of stories with the Hamilton LA situation. And now, instead of dealing with a bunch of whiny, overprivileged actors who refused to do their jobs, they are closing the show. Good luck getting work kids.

this was because it wasn't selling any tickets, R219. They'll be down to Broadway plus the one tour they should have reopened sooner rather than later.

If you think HAMILTON wasn't selling....

R219 That was the claim of a single poster who was unable to expand upon their claims nor provide any kind of proof. The idea Seller and the other producers would give up money just to avoid dealing with some whiny actors is utterly ridiculous.

The rumors about the LA Hamilton cast being diva-ish and difficult were true. Covid was only a tiny part of it. They basically fucked themselves out of a good gig. It wasn't selling as well as the tour or Broadway, but it could have eked out another year. They’re basically unemployable now.

[quote]The rumors about the LA Hamilton cast being diva-ish and difficult were true. Covid was only a tiny part of it

Well tell us the rest of it then

so is Hamilton really going to be a shorter sensation than everyone thought? (Tee hee, only because J Seller loves the smell of his own farts)

I also am curious how Hamilton will do in regional theaters and schools in the future… perhaps performers having an affinity for rap/hip-hop is more commonplace now than it used to be so it won’t be impossible to cast.

Looking at the IBDB page for the L.A. cast of Hamilton, I see that a good amount of the cast has only-to-mostly done productions of Hamilton, including that particular tour/production. If it's true that they were brats, then they were foolish brats. Also, is it normal for a musical with a cast of 20 to have 15 swings, four standbys and nine understudies?

R228, maybe that’s because of the pandemic. Maybe it wasn’t such a large amount of covers before Covid.

I sure would love to have some details about the bratty entitlement of the LA Hamilton cast, if anyone knows and cares to spill.

R228 The tours and Broadway productions have 11 or 12 swings, and there's some doubling up of names (for example, Amanda Braun is listed as a swing on every production). A couple of the tours have similar numbers of understudies and standbys.

The doubling of names are Vacation Swings that bounce between companies as needed. Larger shows with multiple tours/productions have been doing that for a long time.

Ah, see, this is information I didn't know. Thank you, everyone!

What is the Teachout cause of death? He certainly was a big fat person.

All right. Help me out here.

I finally saw the COMPANY revival yesterday.

Some thoughts, and please tell me if you think I've lost the plot:

1. Katrina Lenk is miscast. She was great in Band's Visit, but she doesn't have the vocal chops for this show. And I know she can act, and she's fine here, but it all just felt a little off, like a bad fit. And this got me thinking... Who could headline this show? Incredibly, I found myself wanting to see Kelli O'Hara in the role, and that's never happened before. Who else with a name would have been right?

2. Matt Doyle steals the show. Wanted more of him, and Jennifer Simard.

3. Patti is very good but not quite right as Joanne. She is a broad, but she's not a Upper East Side type. She certainly goes for it, and damn does she have natural presence (she's a Broadway star for a reason), but who else could have played this part? As I type this Vanessa Williams comes to mind, weirdly enough. Possibly cause whoever's playing that truly thankless part of Joanne's husband right now is also an actor of color. Also, that change in the script where Joanne offers her hubby up to Bobbi seemed to come out of nowhere and doesn't really land -- not even close -- so I wonder if anyone could have made that work.

4. The staging is very clever, as are the sets. Why did the Times feel the need to run an article about the stage design overwhelming the show AFTER panning the show in its review? Was that necessary?

5. How much does Claybourne Elder have to work out to maintain that physique?

6. Is the show better with a woman at its center? I'm ambivalent. I like the idea of changing that up, but the text doesn't always support having Bobbi as a woman.

7. Lastly, as I walked home yesterday after the show, I asked myself: What are we supposed to take away from this show? Would love to hear some thoughts on this.

[quote] Lastly, as I walked home yesterday after the show, I asked myself: What are we supposed to take away from this show?

And just like that, I knew: nothing. The whole thing had been an experiment in futility in which I participated.

[quote]I sure would love to have some details about the bratty entitlement of the LA Hamilton cast, if anyone knows and cares to spill.

OK, this is beyond secondhand information. Thirdhand? Fourthhand? So take it for what it's worth. Anyway, a friend of mine involved in casting in NY (but not, I should note, on Hamilton) tells me that the LA Hamilton cast was supposedly not showing up on time for rehearsals or performances, not taking notes, missing a weird amount of performances (not covid-related). And there's always been this unspoken threat of a social media stink if company management were to take action. Not unlike what's going on with the ALW Cinderella situation in the West End, only with a really damaging racial component. Interestingly, my friend blames the producers for coddling the cast in the first place and allowing them to think they were stars who could get away with this kind of behavior day one.

[Quote] Also, that change in the script where Joanne offers her hubby up to Bobbi seemed to come out of nowhere and doesn't really land -- not even close -- so I wonder if anyone could have made that work.

I saw the show in London, and for me this is where the gender-swapping concept fell apart. I wasn't entirely persuaded by the approach, and as you suggest R235, the revised text often strains to accommodate all of the changes. But I also admired and respected the ambition to do something new with the material and had a fun time.

But I thought this moment chickened out completely and undermined everything that came before it. They clearly didn't have the courage of their convictions to pursue the concept to its logical conclusion: swapping genders is considered fine and easy, but somehow to suggest that Bobbi and/or Joanne's sexuality could also be fluid was a step too far? The impact of the scene is vital, coming close to the end and the epiphany that follows. But to base it on an illogical convoluted partner-swapping turn made no sense whatsoever, and left one with the feeling that despite whatever strengths the rest of the evening may have had that Marianne Elliot never really fully understood her own concept.

I think it's one of the main reasons that I, like you, was unsure as to what I was supposed to take away from the production.

I think the (obviously unstated) reason for the awkward proposition is that Elliot knew a lesbian seduction from LuPone would no go over with audiences. And swapping gender for Joanne would have been near impossible. However, since this is a hit, we are going to have female Bobbies for a long time.

Is it true there's a petition going around to replace Lenk with Jeanna de Waal from DIANA? (The latter sings Being Alive in her cabaret act.)

[quote] Is the show better with a woman at its center?

No! There are very few musicals where a man has a strong eleven o’clock number. Women dominate musicals. Company is one of a handful of musicals where there is an interesting male character and it should stay that way.

What an ignorant comment.

R241, which male character are you talking about? I never found any of the men in Company interesting.

Incidentally, have they ever taken a female musical role and reversed it?

[quote]Not unlike what's going on with the ALW Cinderella situation in the West End

What's going on there? Last we heard from that was ALW having a pissy phone call with the cast.

As for the rest - there was a poster on here a while ago who told us that pretty much all of the Hamilton casts were shitshows in terms of unprofessionalism (from 178 in linked thread) so don't really see why LA would be a special case.

[quote] Marianne Elliot never really fully understood her own concept.

I think you're onto something here. At its core, the idea that a woman getting pressured to 'find someone and settle down' certainly has potential, it's just not what these men wrote. So turning [italic] Company [/italic] into that show may have been misguided. But if you're gonna try, you need to see if your experiment has a payoff, even if it's a different payoff than the original version had. And they haven't solved that at all. It [italic] seems [/italic] like Joanne being a bitter gargoyle that Bobbie doesn't want to turn into is their point, but it doesn't work, because Joanne didn't choose to be single.

Here's a thought. In this revision, Joanne could have been the permanently single wisecracking woman, whom no one ever expects to have a partner (female version of Nathan Lane in Love Valour Compassion) among their friends could have worked, giving Bobbie a "there by the grace of God" denouement from "Ladies Who Lunch" that it, honestly, never really had.

Just out of curiosity were there a lot of understudies on when you saw Company the other day? I think Lenk has yet to miss.

[quote] I think Lenk has yet to miss.

except for a couple of major notes.

They should have had the nerve to make Bobbi a lesbian.

Would have been much more interesting.

Sara Ramirez is CHE BOBBI! Here’s to the ladies who munch.

R204-- "Nancy" might have been Vogue model Nancy Berg, who had a relationship with Sondheim at some point and likely remained a friend.

[quote]Incidentally, have they ever taken a female musical role and reversed it?

Several years ago, there was that production of “On A Clear Day…” where the female role was played by a man.

And I think there was a production of “Oklahoma” where the two couples were switched.

Women have excellent musical theater songs but are always straying into male songs in venues like cabarets. Yet outside of special concerts, you never see men performing the women’s songs.

Could Sally Bowles be played by a man as a man? The Witch in Into the Woods? Grizabella? Christine in Phantom with a male Phantom? Eponine in Les Miz?

Several years ago, there was a production of Nunsense where all the roles were played by men.

When I saw COMPANY in London one of the most jarring moments (among many) in regard to the gender change was the song Have I Got a Girl for You in which the husbands sleazily sang Have I Got a GUY for You to Bobbie. The husbands, who were mostly unattractive schlubs dressed in awful suburban clothes, weren't remotely believable as friends of the elegant sophisticated Rosalie Craig and the song became skeevy and distasteful. The only believable friendship in the London production was between Rosalie Craig and the gay couple (Jonathan Bailey and whoever played his bf).

And, for that matter, the actresses playing the wives in London weren't much more believable as friends of Bobbie.

Honestly, is it believable that Katrina Lenk would be intimate friends with Patti Lupone and the black actor cast as her young husband? Patti can't help but play Joanne like a nouveau riche fray from Long Island.

[Quote] Could Sally Bowles be played by a man as a man?

Not when Sally’s abortion is a major plot point, Rose.

[quote] Not when Sally’s abortion is a major plot point, Rose.

If you look at the original stage script, the abortion is a very veiled reference. The only reference is that Sally says to Cliff, “You would have made a wonderful father.” The original script doesn’t focus on it.

One of the drawbacks of Company is that the audience never discovers how Bobby knows all of these different couples.

Why does Bobby hang out with Joanne? When does he have time to work a job, meet women and hang out with all these married couples?

Company is best played as a concept musical. When it’s played as reality, it begins to fall apart.

There was Nathan Lane as Maria but no one really believed that Captain Von Trapp would fall in love with him or that children would like him.

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1999, "Fosse" opened at the Broadhurst Theatre.

CORRECTION: Yesterday's post misstated the theater where "Constellations" opened in 2015. The play ran at the Samuel J. Friedman Theatre.

r254, I saw the Broadway production and the women sang that (Have I Got a Guy for You). The men sang "Poor Baby." Do you mean that one? Because I really hated that. A bunch of middle aged men showing up in this woman's bedroom when she's rolling around with a man singing about how she needs to settle down and pitying her...it was gross and didn't work at all.

R237, thanks for the info. I hate to keep pumping you for info, but what in a nutshell is going on with the ALW Cinderella? I don't think I've heard or read anything about that.

[quote]I think the (obviously unstated) reason for the awkward proposition is that Elliot knew a lesbian seduction from LuPone would no go over with audiences.

I'm curious as to what you mean by that. Is Patti LuPone not considered enough of an actress that she and her director and the audience would understand she's playing a CHARACTER who might suddenly make a lesbian advance towards Bobbie, if only as a shock gesture?

Patti LuPone has a “No dyke” clause in her contract. It’s right after the clause that she can yell at audience members and not get fired and before the clause that bans Glenn Close from all performances.

[quote] the song became skeevy and distasteful

The lyrics were always sleeve and distasteful.

Smart!—She's into all those exotic mystiques:

The Kama Sutra and Chinese techniques—

I hear she knows more than seventy-five...

Call me tomorrow if you're still alive!

Dumb!—And with a weakness for Sazerac slings—

You give her even the fruit and she swings

[quote]I hate to keep pumping you for info, but what in a nutshell is going on with the ALW Cinderella? I don't think I've heard or read anything about that.

Just to offer a little background first, the cast of Cinderella is led by a quasi-star named Carrie something or other who's more famous for being famous than for being an actress. (Though she does have a very good voice.) She has missed a LOT of performances and seems to have mental health issues that prevent her from committing to eight shows a week, though not from making personal appearances to promote her personal "brand". She leads the company and supposedly many of them have adopted a similar attitude.

Anyway, ALW or one of his minions popped into see Cinderella shortly after it opened and was not happy with the cast's energy, and so the next night after the performance the cast was summoned back onstage and were treated to a phone-in from his Lordship where he basically asked them all to not phone it in. In his remarks, he purportedly said that they were all in the "service industry". This did NOT go down well with the cast.

On the one hand, he probably had a point. On the other hand, it sounds like he handled it disastrously. The cast went on social media and bitched as much as they could without actually naming names. Though, as you can imagine, enough friends of friends started talking that eventually the word got out.

Ticket sales, which were never spectacular, were dwindling anyway, despite the good UK reviews, and when Omicron struck, ALW closed the show down until February. Which, business-wise, was probably a smart thing anyway. The rumor was that they'd be retooling. I guess we'll find out soon.

Thanks again, R266.

r261, I have a distinct memory that it was the husbands who sang Have I Got A Guy for You to Rosalie Craig.....but I'm old, lol, maybe I'm misremembering. I'd be curious to hear from anyone else who saw Company in London. Honestly don't remember if it was the husbands or wives who sang Poor Baby. I'm not sure if I saw the show in previews or after it opened...pretty sure it was soon after opening.

r265, yes the lyrics were always "distasteful" but made sense when it was the men who sang it to a male Bobby. It was just plain sl;eazy for the men to sing it to a female Bobbie. Of course, that was my original point about not the production not thoroughly thinking things through.

And r263, I'm not the poster who said they could never have had Patti make a lesbian move but I do agree. My opinion is that they were probably right in this particular instance. I don't think general audiences would want to see an established Broadway star like Patti (or Bernadette, or Joanna Gleason, or Christine Ebersole or, god knows, even Elaine Stritch) sexually coming on to a young woman onstage just before singing their big highly-anticipated show-stopping song. I think even liberal audiences would be turned off in a way they would NOT with an older woman coming on to a handsome younger man. But all this is just another example of why gender-bending the show is complicated and really doesn't ultimately work.

On the London Cast Album of the new Company, it’s the wives who sing “Have I got a Guy for You,” not the husbands. And the hubbubs sing Poor Baby.

R268 is misremembering.

The LA company of HAMILTON was supposed to sit down for at least a year. The company is being shut down because everyone is tired of the constant drama with the company. One story I was told was that at several performances, even though they had tested negative, performers refused to go on. It was chaos.

Wasn't this the company where the non-binary performer was suing to get their own dressing room?

As my grandmother used to say, "Give them an inch, they'll take a mile."

R266 Carrie Hope Fletcher, her older brother was in a boy band (McFly) and she's a child actor turned social media 'star'. I was doing some googling to see if I can find out any more about this drama, and found a site called Tattle Life. My god, the level of hatred there makes DL look like a love-in!

The most recent thread about her is titled "Hetroflexible with her schedule" which is a better effort than any recent theatre thread has managed. Apparently she's been liking anti-ALW social media posts then acting all lovey with him when they do promo together. And she posted a bootleg of her in Les Mis. She sounds an absolute nightmare, and that's from reading two pages of a 50 page thread on that site.

R271 Yes. And the cast of that production and the Chicago one didn't sound particularly pleasant. Lots of threats and insults detailed in that complaint.

I do think it's interesting that trouble has been going on in casts that aren't hiring proper actors. Carrie has done a bunch of shows, but all off the back of her social media, she hasn't had to work for it. And Hamilton encourages non-actors to audition. Hardly a coincidence, I imagine, that a lack of professionalism follows. Though that doesn't explain why castmates who are actors then start behaving poorly - unless it's just a case of 'if they can get away with it, so can I' but that seems pretty stupidly short-sighted, even for an actor,

[quote] On the other hand, it sounds like he handled it disastrously.

Isn’t that how Andrew handles everything?

[quote]I don't think general audiences would want to see an established Broadway star like Patti (or Bernadette, or Joanna Gleason, or Christine Ebersole or, god knows, even Elaine Stritch) sexually coming on to a young woman onstage just before singing their big highly-anticipated show-stopping song.

I can't imagine why you think "general audiences" have as much of a phobia about this as you do. Oh, and the pick-up line comes AFTER "The Ladies Who Lunch." So that's yet another thing you're misremembering, like your idea that the men sing "Have I Got a Guy For You" to Bobbie.

On a related, a friend of mine hated the fact that the men DO sing "Poor Baby" in reference to Bobbie -- and I agree with him -- because it sounds so false that a bunch of men, especially mostly straight men (with two exceptions), would express that kind of sentiment about a female friend in that language just because they think she's not partnered and not dating.

I’d like to see Marion the librarian played by a man.

[quote]I’d like to see Marion the librarian played by a man.

Right, and then they would spell it that way. Like Marion Robert Morrison, who later became John Wayne.

Oh please, r275, before Ladies Who Lunch, after Ladies Who Lunch....either way, general audiences do NOT want to see their favorite Broadway divas coming on sexually to younger women in Broadway musicals.

Even if you do. And that's fine if you do. And I'd love to see you convince Patti of your preference.

I think Patti would be up for it.

[quote]I’d like to see Marion the librarian played by a man

So would Hugh.

I’d pay $600 to see Hugh Jackman romance Jeremy Jordan

[quote]Though that doesn't explain why castmates who are actors then start behaving poorly - unless it's just a case of 'if they can get away with it, so can I' but that seems pretty stupidly short-sighted, even for an actor,

The star (or at least the lead of the company) always sets the example for everyone else. It's not like that's a hard and fast rule, but I've never failed to see it play it out that way. Happy, professional leads lead happy professional casts. Demanding brats breed companies of same.

[quote] Though that doesn't explain why castmates who are actors then start behaving poorly - unless it's just a case of 'if they can get away with it, so can I'

Maybe some cast members feel pressure to go along with the mean girls. Some people can make life very difficult and if you don’t go along with them, it can get rough.

The husbands sing “Poor Baby,” with the godawful new lyric, “Bobbi ought to have a fella.” Yikes.

Lenk is an exotic and totally miscast. Bobbi needs to fit in anywhere, with every couple. I never believed for a second that she would be friends with any of those those nebbishes and fraus. Also, Rosie Craig sang and acted the part a zillion times better.

All the real musical theatre pros I know have left HAMILTON as soon as they can afford to. The backstage environments are famously toxic. The Chicago company was a revolving door, include Ms. Olivo.

Didn’t Patti LuPone say she wouldn’t do the show on Broadway unless the entire London cast was able to transfer?

Patti should know American Equity doesn't like doing that for a show written with American characters. One or two they'll allow, or something like the whole cast from the RSC (for an American show to trade going over there). British Equity ain't no piece of cake either.

R285 Have they offered any views as to why it's so toxic?

A fun look at the set designs for FLYING OVER SUNSET, for those of you who didn't see it.

Some of it (the opening, the ocean swim) works beautifully onstage; others (the weird enormous plant) didn't work for me at all.

I love unusual production design. I wonder what LCT's budget for SUNSET was.

Will Company run long enough for interesting or stunty replacements?

Patti did rather loudly proclaim that she wouldn't do Company in NY unless everyone in the cast came, but of course she was just grandstanding.

I did read that Rosie Craig was hoping to be asked and hurt when she wasn't. I'm sure she would have been the better choice, but Sondheim at the time was very high on Lenk.....

[quote]Oh please, [R275], before Ladies Who Lunch, after Ladies Who Lunch....either way, general audiences do NOT want to see their favorite Broadway divas coming on sexually to younger women in Broadway musicals. Even if you do. And that's fine if you do. And I'd love to see you convince Patti of your preference.

I think you're being sort of ridiculous about this. First of all, that come-on line is supposed to be something of a shocker even as originally written, with Joanne delivering it to Robert. So, you think an older ACTRESS delivering a come-on line to another ACTRESS, not in real life but IN A BROADWAY SHOW, is so distasteful that most people "do NOT want to see it?"

It would have been a great, even if obvious, idea to have Joanne come on to Bobbie in the present production precisely BECAUSE the come on would be so unexpected, and would be shocking for that reason. So I think whoever decided against it made a big mistake, and it seems like a lot of other people agree with me even if you don't.

Why doesn’t Flying Over Sunset skip the set altogether and had out tabs of acid when people come in instead?

Has Patti been claiming Company will be her last musical? I thought she did. Of course, I think she also claimed that during War Paint.

Patti should have claimed The Baker’s Wife as her last musical.

Patti should claimed Sunset Boulevard as her last musical.

[quote] Patti did rather loudly proclaim that she wouldn't do Company in NY unless everyone in the cast came

No she didn’t. She knew from the get-go that would be impossible. She did, absolutely, push to have Rosalie Craig. I don’t know if there was an AEA turndown or Sondheim pushed for Lenk, as someone indicated above. If that’s true, Sondheim really screwed up. Lenk could go into several Sondheim roles. Bobbi isn’t one of them.

[quote] Have they offered any views as to why it's so toxic?

Rabbit hole alert

[quote]THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1999, "Fosse" opened at the Broadhurst Theatre.

My mom thought they had musicalized GORILLAS IN THE MIST, when I complained to her about FOSSE winning the Best Musical Tony that year. 😂

Katrina Lenk would be better in that.

Patty could be a gorilla

Pretty sure it’s in print somewhere of Patti declaring she wouldn’t do Company in NY unless the London cast was brought over.

So Patti changed her mind!

Jeeeez, will some of you queens let it go and get a life??

[quote]Pretty sure it’s in print somewhere of Patti declaring she wouldn’t do Company in NY unless the London cast was brought over.

Then link to it, r301.

[quote] I did read that Rosie Craig was hoping to be asked and hurt when she wasn't.

I can't imagine her stating this publicly. Did you read it on DL, or somewhere real? Did someone on a chat board say "I bet Rosie was hurt"?

[quote]Jeeeez, will some of you queens let it go and get a life??

Read the room.

Producers are still not reporting Bway grosses, correct?

I challenge the assumptions that 1) the COMPANY revival is a hit (it had a big advance, but...) or 2) that Rosalie Craig would have helped them sell a single ticket. Lenk may be miscast but she's known to NY theatregoers.

If COMPANY outlasts Lenk's stay, I predict some very hokey stunt-casting for the next Bobby.

I didn't love everything about Lenk's performance, but I'm not convinced this is any better. I find Craig's voice grating. (And no, it's not any better on the cast recording.)

The next Bobby needs to be they/them or we will…well, we’ll something.

[quote]that Rosalie Craig would have helped them sell a single ticket

Of course she would. A number of reviews questioned Lenk being the right choice for the role. That wouldn't have happened with Craig in the role. You really think critics questioning whether the lead is right for the role didn't have an impact on ticket sales?

R298 I was in that thread at the time, and I don't really see its relevance to why the Hamilton casts are so toxic. You can't even blame wokeness - if that's what you're trying to do there - because from the complaint from the non-binary actor demanding their own dressing room - we know that there are plenty of cast members who aren't woke. Homophobia and threats of violence hardly count as woke.

Unless they cast RuPaul as Bobbie, I will not be in attendance.

R309, Craig was not good either. That video shows the level of singing and acting that Craig brought to the role. I think she would have gotten reviews saying she was miscast for different reasons.

Agree about Rosalie Craig in London. She was OK but nothing special. If I'd run into her on the tube the next day I doubt I'd have recognized her if she wasn't wearing that bright red dress.

[quote]I think she would have gotten reviews saying she was miscast for different reasons.

It's not a hypothetical though, is it? She didn't get reviews saying she was miscast.

Who could have done it better? Who are our mid-30s (not Lenk's mid-40s+) actresses who could act and sing it? Annaleigh is the right age but not the right "type." I can't think of anyone. Any recent good Elphaba? Some of the arlier ones (Murney, etc) would have been good but have also aged out.

[quote]So Patti changed her mind! Jeeeez, will some of you queens let it go and get a life??

She didn't "change her mind," it's just another annoying example of her grandstanding. Like when she had previously stated after WAR PAINT that she would never do another musical, just to send her fans into conniptions.

Perfect casting: Rachel Bay Jones (okay she's 52, but she doesn't look it.)

R303, I vaguely recall I read it in Playbill. And I sure as fuck don’t feel the need to prove anything to you.

You didn’t read it in Playbill, r318, because Patti never said it.

Where you read it was here on DL, where some queen was speculating that Patti would hold out. She never would have. She knows you can’t import an entire UK company over to play American roles. It won’t happen, unless it’s NY or RSC affiliated. Even “Angels” had one American lead in London & added a second one for NYC.

Patti got her lead in "Evita" because she knows darn well American Equity back then wouldn't let Elaine Paige over here back then.

oops, delete the second "back then" -- wish there was edit ability.

I'll just you bet you fucking do.

[quote][R303], I vaguely recall I read it in Playbill. And I sure as fuck don’t feel the need to prove anything to you.

Ok. So as r301 you are

[quote]Pretty sure it’s in print somewhere of Patti declaring she wouldn’t do Company in NY unless the London cast was brought over.

and as r318, you

[quote]vaguely recall [you] read it in Playbill. And sure as fuck don’t feel the need to prove anything to you.

Why would anyone believe you?

Oh, just fuck off, R323. You’re deeply tiresome.

R323 & 324-You two oughta get married.

[quote][R323] & 324-You two oughta get married.

I wouldn't hate fuck him with your dick, r325.

Out of curiosity, what's the scene like over at Aladdin nowadays?

Alladin is playing to rows and rows and rows of empty seats. As is Lion King. They're just waiting to Spring. But there are rumblings they will close Aladdin.

R315 Jessie Mueller. Thought this from day 1.

Jessie Mueller is only slighlty more exciting than Sutton. Foster.

Jesssie is going to be playing Marian?

No, Jussie is going to be playing Marian.

Jussie wants to be Lassie, Lassie wants to be Jussie, Jussie’s more like Count Basie, but extra sassy!

R303 Not the original poster but here you go:

"About potentially bringing this production of the Sondheim classic to Broadway, LuPone said, “If certain members of the company go, then yeah [I'll go].”

R334, saying "if certain members of the company go, then yeah" is a far cry from "she said she'd only do it if the whole cast did it."

She probably meant Rosalie Craig and Marianne Elliott. And a case could have been made for Rosalie Craig being allowed, since she was a part of it from the workshop stage. But whether it was AEA or Sondheim that kept Rosalie from being asked, Patti thought differently when it came time to actually commit to the NY production.

Did the British girl in it have too thick a Cockney accent to bring it to Broadway?

Are you talking "Company," r336? Rosalie Craig did an American accent in the show.

R335 She had said the whole cast before that interview but I am still looking for it.

Patti was never going to carry that entire cast on her back to Broadway, perhaps invite them to her house to swim in the ALW memorial pool, but that’s as hostessty as she was going to get.

She's far too experienced on Broadway and far too Equity-savvy to have thought she could request the entire British cast and they'd be allowed. She also understands about what battles to fight. Rosalie Craig would have been a battle she could have made a good case for, and possibly have won. The "whole cast"? No way, and no way would she request that.

[quote]She had said the whole cast before that interview but I am still looking for it.

Breath not bated.

Rosalie Craig is doing just fine. She landed in HEX at the National. So, um...

It bought it was called Six?

Hex is pretty awful. Poor Rosie Craig.

That's what she gets for having a first name as a last name.

Oh it really doesn’t matter matter matter matter matter

I think it was really about what Sondheim wanted. I'm sure Patti was not about to argue with him, nor Marianne.

Thinking out loud ... we could use an updated Not Since Carrie of musical flops over the last 30 years.

I don't think the stories behind them would be nearly as fun. The business isn't nearly as fun.

King Kong - A giant arena-show company built a giant monkey and then kept trying to re-write a crap musical around it.

Bright Star - Steve Martin wrote a musical, something about a baby being thrown out of a train, and it wasn't very good but investors thought his name would sell it. (No I didn't see Bright Star but that is what I think it was about so I never went)

For R348. This received very mixed reviews, but it does exist. I myself have not read it, so I can't comment.

Carmen Cusack was wonderful in Bright Star.

Linzi Hateley was wonderful in Carrie.

I used to see Ken Mandelbaum in the lobby during intermission at Encores. He always was with 3 or 4 twinks, who I assume were his hired assistants who blocked the view of anyone nearby so that Mandelbaum could videotape each production. And then masturbate to each video as he compared the David Ives script reductions with the original scripts.

Wonder whatever happened to Mandelbaum after he got banned from attending theaters. And how exactly did that ban work? Did each box office have a "Wanted" poster of him on the wall?

[quote]Linzi Hateley was wonderful in Carrie.

What about me?

R350, I read that book. It was very poorly written and researched. The author mainly quoted reviews of the shows and provided very few backstories for any of the productions.

Madelbaum's book "Not Since Carrie" also pointed me towards some CDs of great scores in some undeserving flops -- or flops that might have had other problems, but might have featured great songs and performances captured on disc, like "The Grass Harp". I'm thankful to him for that, as well as his very fun telling about many downright disasters, could-have been wonderful shows and other flop shows over the years. I don't know if Joe Allen has a framed photo of his book on display, but it would fit right in -- though maybe the shot of Linzi Hately of "Carrie" looking joyful in her bloody frock might not be the best companion for the dinner crowd.

[quote] Wonder whatever happened to Mandelbaum after he got banned from attending theaters.

Isn’t With One Look on YouTube rumored to be Mandelbaum?

R357, I have heard Aurora Spiderwoman is KM. Don't know for certain if that's true, but anyway, check out that account.

Yes, r358! Sorry, that’s who I meant. Thanks.

I’m not KM but flattered that you thought I might be even for a split second

For anyone who didn't see it, here is Jane Pauley's interview with Liza this morning on CBS Sunday Morning:

With all the stress in their lives, it's amazing that neither Feinstein nor Minnelli have any gray hairs.

I think Feinstein USED to have some...

Just in his teeth

I'm watching Bus Stop. Marilyn really is wonderful in it.

Just Ira Gershwin's grey hairs, r364.

Asshole/R335 continues to be a tiresome contrarian regarding LuPone claiming she’d only go to NY if the British cast was allowed. “Several members of the company” does NOT include Marianne Elliott. “Memberd of the company” only means fellow performers. Jesus, you blew any credibility you had with that faux pas.

Patti did claim that she’d only go to Broadway with Company unless the British company was also invited. I remember reading that and thinking “Smell HER. Ain’t ever gonna happen.”

Your continuing poo poo-ing of this really does reveal what a dolt you are.

P.S. I think I may have read her declaration in an interview with her in the West End program(me) for Company. Maybe she only meant it for locals/tourists to read. Whatever. She said it.

Oh, shut up already.

And your continued failure to link proof of your claim marks you as a liar. (There’s someone on here who keeps making inaccurate statements, like claiming EVITA opened on Broadway in spring 1980. That must be you. Did you also claim Reinking toured in the original Chicago?)

It definitely wasn’t in the London “programme” for Company. Your pants are on fire, r367.

Is Kimberly Akimbo moving to Broadway?

For fucks sake, give it a rest, R370. You must make a fabulous dinner guest.

Enough on the Patti alleged quote. The real story here is that the "brilliant" cast two women in a row who can't sing the part. You'd think she would have learned after London, but repeated the same mistake on Broadway. Weird.

What's Michael Feinstein's play here with Liza? She's had so many 'best friends" in her life, that can't be real. Is he trying to get ahold of the estate after her death?

Yes, r374, he's evil and treacherous...

Surprised she's not appearing with Jim Caruso her other "Best Friend"

Liza’s like the crazy lady locked in the attic.

Wait! Is this the Liza thread or the Broadway Gossip thread/

R348 an updated Not Since Carrie could be incredible. I think creative teams seemed to keep their issues to themselves compared to some productions today where people call each other out on social media more in order to look like the good guy.

Rebecca: The weird fake investors and the embarrassing leaks coming from one of the PR people finally took it down. Head scammer went to jail and I think works at a car dealership. Someone was also arrested for porn

Motown: (Based on some threads here) How the misbehaving touring cast sunk what should have been a pleasant jukebox show that could have lasted for awhile.

To Kill a Mockingbird: Scott Rudins final act of pettiness restricted local theaters from performing the show. This probably didnt help him as more people started to talk about his abusive behavior and interesting financial arrangements. Now the show based on a book read by EVERY child in America is on *hiatus* b/c it can barely draw people?

I really believe he could have retired without scrutiny if this show did not happen .

Camelot semi staged concert: A series of questionable choices. Strangely enjoyable though. Ive seen decent local reductions/concerts of it. Why hasnt this show been revived properly?

Great Comet: Mandy Patinkin was supposed to come in save this innovative show, then the wannabe producers of Twitter attacked this for not giving the prior actor *more of a chance* to rehearse/prep/disappoint. The creator then wrote a show about how awful social media can be. Still mad about this one.

Spider Man: Injuries galore, interesting stunts, and petty backstabbing creative team that would leave each other off emails. Just like immature freshmen working on a group project! It ran for years but is technically not a hit... Something financially funny must have happened.

Me Too Crew : Lots of shady dudes retiring from producing/directing roles because they cant stop harassing and threatening underlings. Too many to list.

Head Over Heels: Based on threads here, seemed like the creative team took a quirky historical parody/comedy and could not agree on a SINGLE thing. I try to see anything with decent reviews or an odd concept. Reviews made it seem like a decent lark.

I think the big difference between Mandelbaum's book and the book you describe, r379, is that the former was strictly Mandelbaum's very informed point of view and your book would need the the cooperation of actors and creative teams who participated in the later flops. A clever writer does not exist today to write that book without the addition of interviews. Not that that's a bad thing - I'd love to read that book if they could get the artists involved to talk on record.

Also to include Dance of the Vampires, All Shook Up, Urban Cowboy, Dracula, Taboo, Good Vibrations, Suessical, LeStat, Hands on a Hardbody, Wonderland.....well, the list just goes on and on.

Side Show

I also feel like there should be either a chapter or addendum including flop musical revivals of the last 30 years. Ken's criteria was that if a show played 250 or more performances, it was ineligible, which unfortunately rules out Spider-Man (but that got its own book).

Triumph of Love...Steel Pier

In My Life, bitches. In My Life.

Ive been reading the Whorehouse Papers, about the writer Larry L. King and his experience as a first time playwright on Best Little Whorehouse. It is great and pulls no punches on his stint in rehab, studio meddling and miscommunication, censorship, etc. He even stepped in and sang a role badly one night!

I would love more content like this and Not Since Carrie. Seeing how the creative goes left makes me appreciate the good stuff.

People seem more confessional and some are more entitled. That is a good combo for a detailed, bitchy book.

One More Thing : Shuffle Along: Great music, dancing, and cast. Rudin and Co chose not to release an official album full of award winning legends. His shitty lawsuit was dismissed and I just found a new article that hints at something financially off. Blaming a newborn and then trying to get insurance money for a canceled show is not a good look.

One of the shows from Not Since Carrie...Simply Heavenly

This means title of show and Groundhog Day (which won an Olivier for Best Musical) are technically flops. Really hard to define what a “flop” is, but there are many very good shows that didn’t succeed.

That's one of the worst articles on the theater I've ever read.

What sheer drooling hyperbole.

But it's good to have the playbill cover on hand to prove that the show's title was indeed Shuffle Along--not, as one poster kept insisting-- Shuffling Along.

R375 do you post that in every thread?

R384 is the winner.

The new book should be called Not Since In My Life.

Dancing skeletons was the least worrisome thing about this musical written by an award winning, yet very troubled, pop composer.

Of course there will be a chapter on the Aimee Semple McPherson musical, which nobody really wanted and why Carolee Carmello and George Hearn agreed to be in something that had flop written in large letters all over it.

Well except for the *Doilies* thread, r389...

[quote]It definitely wasn’t in the London “programme”

I'm not R367, but putting quotes around words just because they're not spelt (bet you're gonna hate that) the American way makes you look foolish and ignorant.

Wow R387 that song is like a lost Duke Ellington song. I really like the final harmonies, too.

Let's ball awhile, r393...

Well, better to ball than bawl ...

I had a ball...

Great number with fun choreography and a big chorus, and one with a decent amount of diversity for the time. Karen Morrow had quite a voice indeed!

Farewell, Onna...

[quote]Wonder whatever happened to Mandelbaum after he got banned from attending theaters. And how exactly did that ban work? Did each box office have a "Wanted" poster of him on the wall?

Exactly, as a matter of fact. Every Broadway box office and roadway usher were given his photo.

As for Rudin and Mockingbird, there was already an often produced stage version of Mockingbird and Rudin started threatening to sue anyone who licensed it. There was a lot of discussion whether he had the legal right to do that and I don't remember how it was resolved, if ever.

^ Broadway usher, sorry.

Aurora Spiderwoman has GOT to be Mandelbaum. No one else in the trading/boot community has any of those high quality 1st generation masters he's posted. Look at his boot of Lane and Broderick's return to The Producers. There's another one floating around from January of that year on lists, but his is just before they closed their 'return' and the quality is out of this world. He also has the LA production with Marty Short and Jason Alexander...though to not exist on video (only audio).

It's definitely KM. And we're only too grateful he's sharing. Unlike that hoarder Miles Krueger!

I think Rudin's lawyers sent cease and desist letters to theater companies that had licensed the older version and some productions were cancelled because of it.

[quote]Wonder whatever happened to Mandelbaum after he got banned from attending theaters. And how exactly did that ban work? Did each box office have a "Wanted" poster of him on the wall?

[quote]Exactly, as a matter of fact. Every Broadway box office and [B]roadway usher were given [Mandelbaum's] photo.

Also every security person and crew member, r399. His name was flagged. Even his behavior of surrounding himself with young men was noted. I saw him get ousted twice. One time he was discovered by a sound mixer, another time by a n employee who distributed the infrared headsets.

[quote]Aurora Spiderwoman has GOT to be Mandelbaum. No one else in the trading/boot community has any of those high quality 1st generation masters he's posted.

Wasn't he known for being stingy with his product, though, r401?

Did they stop him before he was seated, or did they kick him out of his seat?

Did he struggle? Was he fighting and cursing as they dragged him down the aisle?

Each time he and his entourage had been seated and left quietly when caught, r404.

How could he lawfully be ousted from a theater if he wasn't at the time doing anything unlawful?

I can't answer that question, r406. All I can do is verify r399's info and tell what I know and saw.

One of Aurora's clips:

NYPL at Lincoln Center maintains video recordings of just about every Broadway production for research purposes.

[quote] NYPL at Lincoln Center maintains video recordings of just about every Broadway production for research purposes.

Just think, if they streamed them for $5 each...

Has a NYPL recording ever leaked? I'm curious to see what one looks like. And I'm British so actually going into the library to see one isn't really feasible.

[quote]Has a NYPL recording ever leaked?

I wondered that as well, r410.

Honestly, I always wondered if Aurora Spiderwoman was someone from inside NYPL.

That would only make sense if any of the library recordings had leaked, r412.

One of the best is "The Lisbon Traviatia" with Nathan Lane's standout performance and a young non-gay John Slattery entering and playing a scene full-frontally naked and gorgeous.

non-gray

Isn’t the OBC bootleg of Chorus Line that’s been circulating for years from NYPL?

[quote]Has a NYPL recording ever leaked?

Not to my knowledge, r410/ r411. The captures are archival in nature and of low quality. Early ones were shot from a single camera, and while more recent captures have at least 3 cameras, they are not pro shot. I don't think the ACL boot is NYPL's, r416. I could be wrong.

[quote]NYPL at Lincoln Center maintains video recordings of just about every Broadway production for research purposes.

That would be great, r408, but it isn't close to true. As I understand it, someone in the production has to pony up the money to get the show archived. Also, they are often filmed late in a show's run, with a replacement cast.

They just interviewed Claybourne Elder on the local news here in NYC. Very cute and seems sweet.

I'm pretty sure the ACL boot is from NYPL. It's a professional video, taken during the Public run.

[quote] they are not pro shot.

what does that mean?

The NYPL videos vary in quality. Some are gifts of the producers--and may of these are grainy one-camera affairs. The NYPL produced ones are (I think) two camera shoots and of better quality.

If Aurora Spiderwoman worked for NYPL, I think he would probably grab clips from their collection since the video and sound quality is usually so much better than the bootlegs shot from the audience that he shows.

I have not used the collection in over a decade, but everyone seems to describe it as being about Broadway theater. It was not. The productions chosen were selected for historical interest rather than popularity. So off-Broadway and even off-off made up a good part of the collection. It was easier to find a Richard Foreman play than some Broadway revival of a musical.

If I understand correctly, the ACL boot is the one that's in the collection of the NYPL but I'm not sure if it was actually filmed/taped under the auspices of the Theatre on Film and Tape program (TOFT), which was just beginning back then. Also, I've never understood why the ACL boot is in black and white. I mean, it was done in 1975, not 1945. Anybody?

My guess is that it was cheaper, r422, and that the purpose was to preserve the choreography as opposed to the show as a whole.

R423, I would think that by 1975, color was standard for all forms of video recording equipment, so it would not have been more expensive. And didn't they want to have a proper document of the show's color scheme, including the lighting and the costumes, etc.? I just don't get it,

R422, the Chorus Line video is from the NYSF who gave it to the NYPL.

Color was not standard for archival video recording then. Color equipment cost a lot more and B&W was considered okay for archival purposes. No one ever thought anyone would watch the video for any reason other than evaluating a grant application or recreating the staging.

Most theater archival recordings in the 70s were B&W. It was not until the 80s with technological changes that eliminated the price gap between B&W and color you saw the shift happen.

Thanks, 425. I am very surprised to hear that black and white remained the standard for archival videos into the mid-1970s.

As for your comment that "no one ever thought anyone would watch the video for any reason other than evaluating a grant application or recreating the staging," I would have thought the historical significance of ACL would have been pretty much apparent from the beginning, and if they took the trouble to preserve it on video, they might have spent a few hundred dollars more to preserve it properly. Hell, even if they had preserved it on 16-mm color film, that would have been an improvement. That would not have been very expensive at all, and then of course they could have easily transferred it to video. So I'm sorry, but I still don't get it.

It's apples and oranges, but the NY Times didn't start using color until the 90s. Most theatre photos were taken in B&W.

When the NY Performing Arts Library began filming productions in the 1970s, it wasn't always about preserving a record of Broadway shows. I was an apprentice at Williamstown in 1979 and they came up to film a production of Tennessee Williams' Camino Real because the play was so rarely done. And IIRC it was filmed in color. Initially, it was really more about creating a visual library of classic American theater that could be made available to theater scholars and they filmed a lot of plays at regional theaters.

[quote]I would have thought the historical significance of ACL would have been pretty much apparent from the beginning,

Why would you think that, r426? There was certainly buzz around the Public production, but how would they know what a juggernaut it would become? They wanted a useful filmed/taped reference for the blocking and choreography, not the design aspects. Again, It's purpose was NOT to document the show as a whole.

A Chorus Line premiered in 1975, R426. Regardless of the technology available at the time and how expensive it might have been to record on 16mm colour film, it just might not have occurred to them that anybody would want to watch a video of the live show. The thing is the very concept of archiving (as a material thing and as a philosophical idea), and specifically the idea of archiving live performances , has completely changed over the last five decades.

We now live in an age where almost the entire catalogue of modern western culture is available to us anywhere at any time, and through devices that fit in our pockets. This would have appeared fantastical, even a few decades ago, and it's really hard to appreciate that in the late 70s the idea that you would wish to access a recording of something for entertainment purposes - as opposed for dry archival purposes - would have appeared a little strange.

This also doesn't take into account the difference between analogue media (which deteriorates every time it is accessed and copied) and digital media (which can be repeatedly played and copied an infinite number of times without degradation), and how digital media can be easily disseminated has revolutionised ideas about archiving.

We live in extraordinary times.

[quote]We live in extraordinary times.

We were all supposed to have jet packs by now, r430.

R426, others have responded but the fact that there is a video at all shows that it was understood this production was significant. But no one thought future scholars would need color to understand what happened on stage.

You suggest lavish ideas like filming in 16mm and transferring to video. No one was going to spend a huge amount of money for a video only seen by choreographers and scholars.

I do not think you get the technology. Even in the 80s, we would have to raise the level of all lighting cues when a show got videoed. They did not for a Chorus Line, which contributes to the murky look. Color video and film was not worth it because it would look like crap anyway unless the lighting cues were redone for that one performance.

As someone else pointed out, in the 70s NYPL did do color video (because they had money for the technology). The Public Theater and most off-Broadway producers would not have spent the money on equipment to record stuff that the public would never see. That would have been like painting the water heater in your basement to match your kitchen's color scheme--what would be the point.

There are much better quality bootlegs of ACL in color but with replacements. The revival, though not the same quality performance wise, has multiple excellent bootlegs in circulation including one with DL fave Mario Lopez featuring Nick Adams wearing his infamous hoodie.

Thank you Aurora Spiderwoman!

I worked at TOFT for a bit. The woman who started it had a really difficult time in the beginning. Nobody recognized the need to film their productions and many of the producers, actors and creative team point blank refused to allow it because they didn’t want copies of their work spread around.

Many have since come to see the value of it. Producers/directors can send understudies and swings to watch a show before they are put into the show. Bette Midler came to see the tape of “Jackie” because the show featured use of puppetry and Bette was thinking about using that type of thing in one of her shows.

TOFT generally tries to get every Broadway show filmed. Off-Broadway and regional productions get less attention because there isn’t enough money to get it done. But if someone steps forward and underwrites the cost, TOFT will put it into the collection.

Strangely, there are still actors who refuse to have their work filmed. Christopher Walken refused for “James Joyce’s The Dead” saying he didn’t want a single performance to be recorded as definitive.

Patti LuPone was always very vocal against bootleg versions until one showed up of her cabaret show at Les Mouches, a jewel in the crown type video because until that point it only existed in people’s memories, but it showed how dynamic she was as a young performer.

TOFT has to be very strict about who gets access because people are crazy. One time, parents showed up with their three children. They wanted to park their children in front of videos while the parents went out and enjoyed themselves touring NYC child-free.

How sure do you have to be that your kids are gay to want to babysit them with Broadway archival recordings?

What? NO 1971 FOLLIES?! I'm outta here.

Thank you R435, I suspected there was a shift to recording more Broadway, and it looks like that has happened.

Of course, off-Broadway has died so what are you going to do?

Betty Corwin was the name of the lovely woman who was initially in charge of filming productions. All members of the creative team would get a personal phone call from Betty asking permission to film their work which, if granted, was followed up with a simple contract (though no fee).

I don't know how much this will add to the discussion, but a friend of mine has had to do a lot of research at TOFT over the years.

He says that all the videos he looked at were technically excellent, with great camera blocking and excellent clarity.

He said as well that the best of the lot--again, speaking technically--was A Doll's Life.

Camera blocking?

Didn’t PBS do a lot of theatrical productions on film in the 70s and 80s. I remember a production of The Shadow Box, a Thornton Wilder play, maybe Skin of Our Teeth with Sadie Thompson and some production with Kevin Bacon, something about a Lemon Drop Sky and him being molested?

[quote] I suspected there was a shift to recording more Broadway, and it looks like that has happened.

One thing to keep in mind, the collection has a lot of off-beat Off-Broadway videos because back in the day, it was easier to get them to agree to film. They were smaller productions with then unknown actors and many just used one camera.

To her credit, Susan Stroman saw the value of preserving the choreography on video for later use and she was instrumental in getting other producers and creatives to agree to have their shows filmed. And she has sent many dancers and choreographers to the collection to view her work.

I’m still amused by the story I heard in London from the Dress Circle guys that Mandelbaum had a young, financially secure guy from Indonesia or Malaysia recording shows for him in the late 90s. The kid got caught and the cops actually went to his residence. They discovered that the kid came to the UK on a student visa but was actually not attending classes to cater to Mandelbaum’s requests. The kid was immediately put on a plane home and deported.

There is a whole swath of artists, though, who are completely unrepresented in TOFT, for whatever reason. Take someone like Harry Kondoleon. Not one of his plays exists in the TOFT collection. Not even Zero Positive, which was a production at the Public. And that place filmed everything, even that horrific tranny musical with Mandy Patinkin from 1987.

I never miss a horrific Mandy Patinkin tranny musical.

Here’s that Skin of Our Teeth that I remember, and of course it’s Sada, but spellcheck corrected it. I wouldn’t have known at the time, but Blair Brown is leaning heavily into caricature of Bankhead.

Viv's Sabina...

Mary's Sabina...

It would have benefited Patti to listen to Dolores Gray singing the score of Gypsy just for Gray’s fabulous enunciation skills enough. And for Imelda it might have seeped into her brain that it’s “ev-ree-thing’s” coming up roses not “ev-ruh-thing’s.”

Why was this so short lived and fell by the wayside?

It should have seeped into Imelda's brain to say no to playing Rose.

Shortlived, R451? It ran 12 years.

I'm not sure why American Playhouse did such great work with broadcasts of plays and theatrical events in the 80s, only to decide they were in the business of producing (bad) independent films in the 90s. (To be fair, a lot of folks were producing bad independent film in the 90s.)

Does anyone else remember what happened?

Well, its not like theater ended?

Mario Lopez was a nightmare in the ACL revival, r433. Never mind that he had Nick wear a hoodie so his biceps wouldn't show up Mario's - he had Zach's (admittedly awful) costume changed to a short sleeve shirt so he could show off his own guns. He pulled focus in the back of the house by exercising during the show. Had a Cassie/Zach scene restaged so that Zach was onstage for it, which completely ruined the tension of Cassie standing alone on his line as he interrogates her from the back of the house.

He had the finale blocking changed so that Zach - not Paul - was at the point of the wedge. All of these changes were for Mario only. When an understudy stepped in, which was almost every Tuesday because Mario flew to LA after Sunday's matinee and kept "missing" his return flight, the show reverted to the original costumes and blocking.

In addition to exercising in the back of the house, Mario often stepped outside the theater, in costume, to chat up passersby during Paul's monologue. TWICE he lost track of time and left Paul vamp-sobbing onstage after it was over while a stage manager went looking for him.

On closing night, most of the actors that had left the show returned for curtain call. The cast clustered around Michael Berresse while the largely ignored Lopez literally ran into a beauty boom.

The failure of that revival of A CHORUS LINE is still shocking to those of us who grew up in NYC with the show (my first Bway musical!) who thought the original would run forever.

What a fuck up.

[quote] only to decide they were in the business of producing (bad) independent films in the 90s.

They produced Longtime Companion

Why was Mario Lopez allowed in the Broadway stage to begin with?

Just a little touch of star quality...

(emphasis on little...)

Beyond the Public Theatre "Chorus Line," I know of two TOFT videos that got out: "Crazy for You" (OBC, '92) and, of all things, "Ain't Broadway Grand" ('93).

Some artists were reluctant to have their work preserved on video. Bob Fosse did not allow TOFT to preserve the '86 Broadway revival of "Sweet Charity," an almost exact replica of the '66 original in terms of sets and staging. Nor did he want his final show, "Big Deal," preserved for TOFT.

Michael Bennett would not allow his 1982 Broadway production of "Dreamgirls" to be taped, but finally relented and allowed it to be recorded for TOFT a few days before it closed, in August '85.

[quote]You suggest lavish ideas like filming in 16mm and transferring to video. No one was going to spend a huge amount of money for a video only seen by choreographers and scholars.

Well, as far as this idea goes, I don't see what's so "lavish" about filming on 16mm color film with one camera, then transferring to video for archival purposes while also keeping the original film for the archives. I really don't think there's a "huge" amount of money involved in doing so.

That said, thanks R432 for making several good points in explaining why the ACL video is so primitive and awful looking, especially your point about needing to adjust lighting levels for proper color photography.

R461 Correction: Should be "1981 Broadway production of "'Dreamgirls'"

ACL got out of TOFT because of a lawsuit. There was a production in Tokyo (I think that was it) that illegally used Bennett’s choreography. His assistant was able to take it out of TOFT for 72 hours, just enough time to fly to Tokyo, screen the pertinent sections in the trial, and fly it back. Of course, it was enough time to get a copy made, too.

R444 Seems unlikely. Unless they give student visas for night school, I can't see why there'd be a conflict between school and bootlegging shows which run in the evening.

R456 Why on earth were those changes approved to accommodate a D-lister? Sure, I get the producers would agree, but surely the rights holders would've needed to agree too? And given how carefully they've protected the original staging and so on, it seems so odd they agreed to changes for Mario Lopez of all people.

R456 there seems to be a lot going on in Michaels pants

That's an amazing story, R464 - I'd never heard that before. Thanks for sharing!

Even today to rent one 16 mm camera is going to cost a few hundred dollars per day.

That does not make sense, R464. How did this person get the recording of Chorus Line out of the library? They have never permitted any part of the video collection to leave the premises.

R469, I'm just guessing that TOFT made a special exception in giving Bennett's assistant a copy of the tape to use for purposes of that trial.

[quote]Even today to rent one 16 mm camera is going to cost a few hundred dollars per day.

A few hundred dollars is a tiny expense for a theater company. And anyway, the Public could probably have borrowed a camera from someone, as they were much more common in the years before video cameras started to become popular on the consumer level.

R470, but TOFT worked so hard at ironing out contracts so that the unions would permit taping, it is hard to imagine that they would jeopardize the entire archive program that way.

But I guess stranger things have happened.

[quote][R456] Why on earth were those changes approved to accommodate a D-lister? Sure, I get the producers would agree, but surely the rights holders would've needed to agree too? And given how carefully they've protected the original staging and so on, it seems so odd they agreed to changes for Mario Lopez of all people.

The sole rights holder to ACL is Bennett's lawyer, John Breglio. He and Baayork would go ballistic over the tiniest change - until Mario, when it all went out the window. Mario didn't even learn his lines. He had a script at his desk in the back of the house. Onstage, he paraphrased. One of Zach's instructions is something like "Now, I want everyone to keep your eyes on Larry. He has the exact style I want, very 40s" and so on, at some length. Mario's version? "Hey, everybody, I want you to check out Larry".

No idea why Mario got away with what he did. He was handled with kid gloves and never faced consequences for missing his entrance after Paul's monologue (again, TWICE!) or "missing" his return flights on Tuesdays after the novelty wore off. Sure, he has cute dimples and a good body. He was an ok dancer but a terrible actor and extremely unprofessional.

[quote][R456] there seems to be a lot going on in Michaels pants

That's only because there is, r466. He was a featured dancer in Broadway Bares back in his Fred Casely Chicago days. It used to be on YouTube, but it has since vanished. He stripped to briefs, then a g string. then took that off and wasn't too concerned about covering up om the split second before he turned upstage.

Here's an interview for ACL. Around 1:40, he talks about how his hips were turned in as an infant. The camera operator drops to show his blue jeaned hips. Michael notices and says: "Welcome to my hips".

At the start of the ACL recording, there's an announcement to the audience that the performance is being recorded as it's been selected for the NYPL archives, so does seem it's the NYPL who did the recording.

Not to belabor things, R471, but i am guessing you were not working in the theater in the 1970 or 80s? Or even working in film?

Your presentism is exhausting.

You seem to have trouble imagining things being different in any way from what you are familiar with.

R472, I can only guess they assumed they were safe since the person making the request was Michael Bennett's assistant. Assuming, of course, that this story is true.

R475, although I wasn't working in theater or film at the time, I was a young adult as of the late '70s, and I'm very well aware that many things back then were not as they were now. I understand and accept all of the explanations as to why the video of ACL is poor quality black and white, but since the Public had the foresight to make the video in the first place, one might have thought they would spend just a little more money to up the quality of the video considerably. That's all I'm saying.

Omg this is the [italic] Diana [/italic] of threads.

My mother took me to NYC when I was in grade school, and for some reason she took me to see "The Knife" at the Public Theater. (Which is the mentioned "Mandy Patinkin Tranny Musical) It actually had some pretty music in it, but the sight of Mandy Patinkin (after his sex change) and Mary Elizabeth Mastrantonio showing up at a party in the same dress (!)and one lyric that went "He's gotta be gay because everybody's gay!" are the two things that I remember most about it.

I believe that the original production of "Passion" also found it's way out of the TOFT as well. You can tell it was from the Library, because Marin's full nakedness is on display, unlike how the opening bedroom scene was filmed for PBS.

THe TOFT ACL is not poor quality. The pirated version is. Being black and white doesn't make it poor quality. ANd no, it doesn't have the quality of today's recordings, but it's still good.

R464 See Ken Mandelbaum's book "'A Chorus Line' and the Musicals of Michael Bennett," p.313-314, for the story of how the Public Theatre video might have gotten out. Book co-author James Kirkwood traveled to Israel in 1980 when it was discovered that a new production there called "Stage Bug" had remarkable similarities to "A Chorus Line." Kirkwood was allowed to take the video to Israel to show to a judge. Because the judge deemed the video to be of insufficient quality, he, along with lawyers for both sides, ultimately flew to NY to see the Broadway production. "Stage Bug" was shut down in previews and never opened.

R465, you’re being a tad obtuse, aren’t you? Or just being a tiresome contrarian?

According to the guys at Dress Circle who knew every detail of this story, this kid Sukhu (pretty sure that was his name) was NOT ATTENDING HIS CLASSES WHICH WERE IN THE DAYTIME. Get it? Not going to school AT ALL. He’d ditched school to have fun in the big city and only one of those activities involved going to the theater and recording shows for Mandelbaum. He was a rich kid from somewhere like Singapore whose daddy paid for him to attend some economic school in London. And so when it became obvious to the authorities that he wasn’t going to school at all and he was only there on a student visa, well…do the math. Except it’s painfully obvious that you can’t.

The TOFT videos of PASSION and a rehearsal of UMBRELLAS IN CHERBOURG have leaked as well. I've never seen the AIN'T BROADWAY GRAND video listed anywhere, just the audience video from May 6, 1993.

I worked on The Knife at the Public. It. Was. A. Chore..

Mandy looked terrible as a woman, though Bob Gunton looked great as one in "Roza".

ROZA was when I really began to question who was the real brains behind Hal's shows.

ROZA was supposed to be have been great out of town, but it was kind of a bore in NY despite a very good Georgia Brown and La Gunton.

Some of those TOFT shows have a ton of red tape you need to cut thru in order to view them. I had to each out to the Loesser estate to get permission to watch the Zaks '92 'Guys and Dolls'. And the guy from the estate grilled me about my intentions before granting permission. This was probably 16 years ago.

Of all the tapes that I wish would leak from there, that glorious revival would definitely be in the Top 3. Truly magical, even on tape.

There was a longstanding rule that you technically could only see a show once. But I think that's been loosened a bit in more recent years (even if it's still technically a 'rule'). As I've gone back and viewed certain shows numerous times without any fuss.

R482 By all means, be a prick, but it you're the one who wrote "but was actually not attending classes to cater to Mandelbaum’s requests". If the sum is wrong in the first place it hardly matters how good one is at doing the math.

[quote]My mother took me to NYC when I was in grade school, and for some reason she took me to see "The Knife" at the Public Theater.

You know the reason.

Fuck off, R489. I’m just illuminating the story for the dimwit who’s unable to grasp its logic.

R491 Your original post had no logic though. You said he was not going to school "to cater to Mandelbaum’s requests". That was wrong. You wrote the wrong thing, and now you're being a cunt about it rather than just admitting you fucked up.

[quote]Also to include Dance of the Vampires, All Shook Up, Urban Cowboy, Dracula, Taboo, Good Vibrations, Suessical, LeStat, Hands on a Hardbody, Wonderland.....well, the list just goes on and on.

Also, Bonnie & Clyde.

Why did that show only last one month on Broadway? I realize Wildhorn has never been popular in NYC, but it's a pretty good show. It has done well professionally elsewhere, including worldwide. In fact, they just did a sold-out concert version in London tonight (and another planned for tomorrow) with Jeremy Jordan returning as Clyde. That show has had quite the afterlife.

[quote]It's apples and oranges, but the NY Times didn't start using color until the 90s. Most theatre photos were taken in B&W.

I remember that People magazine was black-and-white until the mid-'90s. Only the front/back cover and ads inside were in color.

[quote]Also to include Dance of the Vampires, All Shook Up, Urban Cowboy, Dracula, Taboo, Good Vibrations, Suessical, LeStat, Hands on a Hardbody, Wonderland.....well, the list just goes on and on. Also, Bonnie & Clyde.

[quote]Why did that show only last one month on Broadway? I realize Wildhorn has never been popular in NYC, but it's a pretty good show.

It wasn't awful, but I didn't care for it. It was the second time Kelli O'Hara appeared nude on Broadway. Dracula the Musical was the 1st

Oh dearing myself. I'm thinking of Bridges Over >adison County

Nudies!!!

Bonnie & Clyde has had no international success. It has had no success.

Well, they were miscreants who really shouldn't be glorified in song, r498.

[quote]I remember that People magazine was black-and-white until the mid-'90s. Only the front/back cover and ads inside were in color.

That's interesting, but we weren't discussing print media (until someone else brought it up for no reason), so thanks but that's not at all helpful.

Bajour!

R493 because cut his nude scene. I do believe if he got his cock out, it would have run longer.

Amen r501. Make it stop

[quote]jeremy is dishy

Maybe, r502, but he was the one who didn't want the nudity.

R504 Yes, I remember that. I would have fluffed the cute little thing.

Ah, hell. who wouldn't, r505?

Dracula the Musical. Interesting cast, AWFUL music. Kelli gets nude around 52:30. Neat theatrical trick.

r450 I noticed that video's artwork says they played Saturdays at 5 and 8:30. That's two shows pretty close together for a not short musical. Although that band is playing fast for Dolores. I bet the show has gotten longer and more self indulgent over time

Oh, Dracula! What an awful show. But there was were some terrific bits of stage magic in it. I remember Tom Hewitt walking toward the audience and then just disappearing into the pit. It was really scary.

Didn’t we also get to see Melissa Errico's tits in that one, too?

I thought Linda Eder was the star of that train wreck?

r508 the gossip at the time is that Melissa bared her breasts sometime in previews because Kelli was getting attention for hers

R510 How very Loretta Swit.

tits

R469, read the post . There was a lawsuit hinging on Bennett’s intellectual property. They could not make him a copy, but they agreed to give him special permission to take it for 72 hours. This was the late 70s. Anyway, word got out sboutt the bit pretty quickly. I saw bits and pieces on a friend’s VCR early to mid 80s, but I’m not aware of the whole thing getting into the pipeline till the advent of YouTube.

[quote] Not to belabor things

O! if only.

I was able to rent a copy several times of that B&W version of the Public's ACL on VHS during the 80s from the late and lamented J&R downtown. I'm sure I'm not the only who made my own copy from it. There used to be several low quality clips from it on youtube.

Tonight on Mission Impossible:

Cinnamon and Rollin team up as a cabaret act to stymie power-hungry police officials. Skarbeck: Fritz Weaver. Rollin: Martin Landau. Trock: Martin E. Brooks. Cinnamon: Barbara Bain. Lom: Kevin..

Alas, no free-wheeling patio number. Rollin is doing a Joel Grey Emcee rip-off and Cinnamon just did a dreadful number. This one should be coming up...

I think perhaps the Asian kid may have been my friend Ju, who was from Singapore. He was actually (supposedly) a film student at NYU. He seemed to be very connected in the bootleg underground. Also he had access to a lot of British boots and TV back when things were not so accessible. Huge LuPone and Paige fan, he sent me the better of the Patti EVITA boots with a note stating you can actually see her mouth . As a matter fact, he did just up and disappear after several years of exchanging goods. And yes, I think he came from money. Thanks for just beginning to prove to digital but back when I would send him video tapes when he was home, he told me to label the customs form as golf balls in case they were shook. Apparently some videos were verboten (i’m assuming porn) and any package labeled videotape might be delayed by customers

So HEDWIG is coming back to Broadway?

The HEDWIG creators did a one-night fundraiser concert at Town Hall at the end of December, but I haven't heard any plans to bring back the show. Have you?

Hedwig is meh.

The Bway revival (with Doogie Howser and all the others) was pretty successful, running for a year and a half. (I saw Andrew Rannells, who sang it beautifully but was simply not funny or committed to the character.) I love the score, but do we really need to see it again just 6-7 years later?

I want those boys to write a new show!

[quote]Oh, Dracula! What an awful show. But there were some terrific bits of stage magic in it. I remember Tom Hewitt walking toward the audience and then just disappearing into the pit. It was really scary.

Oh, that poor sweet dear man, r508! If you watch the boot at r506, it happens around 46:00.

[quote]Didn’t we also get to see Melissa Errico's tits in that one, too?

We weren't supposed to, but yes, sometimes. Happens in the afore-mentioned video shortly after 1:19:00

[quote][R508] the gossip at the time is that Melissa bared her breasts sometime in previews because Kelli was getting attention for hers

Give r510 the kewpie doll! Errico was only supposed to untie her nightgown, so that Dracula had access to her throat. During previews, occasionally a nip began to slip out, and she was emphatically directed to knock it off. After opening (and Des was gone) Errico let the girls out whenever she felt like it.

Wildhorn was an asshole. Towards the end of the run, he began shopping around for actors to do a "concept album" of Dracula, while allowing the cast to think he was going to record an OBC recording. Unfortunately for him, one of the actors he approached was Raul Esparza, who promptly told his friend Errico about the subterfuge. That was a chilly day in the theater.

Here's a link to some of that drama, in which Wildhorn's partner, Jeremy Roberts, has an hilarious meltdown. They missed deadline after deadline to release that recording. Elsewhere, Roberts blamed James Barbour's troubles with a backstage blowjob from an aspired but underaged actress on the delays.

I don't know if the recording was ever released

Thanks R523. That meltdown was fun to read.

Hedwig is going to be a problematic musical to stage going forward....it's technically now a "period" piece since it's very specifically timed to historical events (the fall of the Berlin Wall). It's set in the "present" but it's the present of when the show was originally staged so circa 1998ish.

I guess as long as it's believable that Hedwig could still be performing and that it could be plausible that she baby sat/seduced/mentored a young Tommy Gnosis who went on to become a "current" pop/rock star, it can work. Though, a Hedwig set in 2022 could sorta be believable, (with the right perfomer) within a few years it's not gonna work.

By 2030, a Hedwig pushing 60 and angry about her young lover stealing her heart/songs is going to feel very Marlene Dietrich-ish. Which might still be appropriate for the character, after all.

That whole Dracula kerfuffle is really based on the cast members' anger that they didn't get the CD.

They pretend that it's all about how it was handled, but that's irrelevant. They're just looking for a a noble-seeming accusation to throw at Wildhorn and Roberts for NOT GIVING THEM WHAT THEY WANT.

This is what the world is: people want something, and they get it or they don't get it. That's all anyone cares about.

And it seems to me that Roberts has explained the Wildhorn position eloquently. They couldn't get a cast CD, so they made a concept album. Why? Because then they don't have to pay a week's theater salary to everyone who's in the recording. And aren't they capitalizing the CD with their own money? This way, they can negotiate individual fees with about seven people instead of having to compensate fifteen (or however many it was) with a week's salary each for one day's work.

oh, hi, Jeremy. What's up?

Melissa Errico also showed her tits in Sunday In The Park With George at the Kennedy Center. I’m sure Steve just loved that.

R488 the one time view rule was added because Gary Griffin went repeatedly to see the video of Guitierez' Most Happy Fellow, and then ripped it off for a production in Chicago. Direction is not covered by copyright, but the reordering of songs and some text changes were what got him.

And the log of the video collection was cited as evidence. So then a rule was instituted that you could only watch a tape once.

Direction is copyright-protected, just as choreography is.

Now Is the Winter of Broadway’s Discontent:

Paul Carter Harrison, Whose Ideas Shaped Black Theater, Dies at 85:

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1998, "Ragtime" opened at the Ford Center for the Performing Arts.

The people call it Fag-time!

wow clever

[quote]Wildhorn was an asshole. Towards the end of the run, he began shopping around for actors to do a "concept album" of Dracula, while allowing the cast to think he was going to record an OBC recording. Unfortunately for him, one of the actors he approached was Raul Esparza, who promptly told his friend Errico about the subterfuge. That was a chilly day in the theater.

I remember that whole incident. Really juicy gossip!

That's some good stuff, Maybe [italic] Dracula [/italic] is worthy of the "Not Since Carrie" sequel that r348 is looking for. That was one weird trainwreck

An understudy in Company announced on social media that he’ll be filling in for Matt Doyle who will be taking a brief medical leave. Was it really his place to tell people Matt is on medical leave. TMI

Frank Wildhorn has always been the ultimate egomaniacal narcissist. He truly believes that his shows have failed because he's so talented people have an "agenda" against him. It's truly insane. Meanwhile there's some theatre in Germany that produces anything he shits out.

Well, I think that’s part of the problem. He’s SO adored in continental Europe and Asia, he just can’t accept that the US and England don’t like his works, thus it must be some sort of conspiracy. Not that these two countries have a longer, more sophisticated tradition of musical theatre, mind you….

R538 Matt had already posted on social media that he was going to be out of the show due to a knee infection, so it's not like Javier Ignacio said something he shouldn't have, and more like you looking for a reason to whine.

I think the hatred for Wildhorn is overdone. Somehow it became cool to hate him, when he is not really worse than a bunch of other songwriters. Honestly, I’d prefer to listen to some of his tunes than some of the crap from the three-named flop-makers who are more respected.

Wildhorn's WONDERLAND was one of the worst musicals I've ever sat through. And I've sat through a lot.

Do people in the business feel like Michael John LaChiusa lived up to all of his potential?

Unfortunately, yes. All of it.

Even the worst crap from LaChuisa is better than anything by Wildhorn.

"Better." Now there's a persuasive critique.

I think LaChuisa is actually pretty happy with the career he's had. He sees his work as singular and unique. Not necessarily "Broadway."

Despite his bluster, Jason Robert Brown doesn't strike me as content about his career. I'm sure he thinks he should be much more commercially successful than he is.

Neither of them have created something with the popular success of, say, SPRING AWAKENING, let alone HAMILTON or even IN THE HEIGHTS.

r538, to add to what r541 said, Doyle also shared Ignacio's story to his, so clearly he was fine with it.

JRB is about to change his bad luck with his new show opening soon!

Here's hoping, R550.

[quote] Neither of them have created something with the popular success of, say, SPRING AWAKENING, let alone HAMILTON or even IN THE HEIGHTS.

Or JEKYLL & HYDE

Or ANKLES AWEIGH

I always Walk Like a Sailor, r553. Now kiss me and kill me with love.

R530, no. Direction is not covered by copyright. The argument has been made that staging could be covered just as choreography is---but this has always been rejected in court.

You might want to look into the Caldwell Theater, Joe Mantello, Love Valour Compassion case. It was 20 years ago, but it the best documented case.

I detect some headin' for the bottom blues, r554.

I love headin' for the bottom.

Didn’t Harold Prince throw a hissy fit that someone stole his directorial ideas when Pacific Overtures was done Off-Broadway at the Promenade?

[quote]I always Walk Like a Sailor

Sailor boy, come talk to me in English.

Nope, copyright in direction has never been rejected by any court. The Mantello case was settled out of court. And there have been a couple of more recent cases, including one involving John Rando/Urinetown. They also were settled before any judicial decision. Direction is covered by copyright just as choreography is.

Can you point to any case law on that R560?

When has the copyright of direction been upheld by an American court?

The SDC and every other directors organization are under the impression that directors copyright has never been upheld in an American court.

r561 you're the "not to belabor things" person and you have to stop. Go pick a fight somewhere else.

R560 is making claims.

What is wrong with asking for the basis of such claims? If I am wrong, I would like to know. (It does happen.) And if he is wrong, it would be wrong to let his statement stand.

R563 I'm not R560 but you made claims too:

[quote]The argument has been made that staging could be covered just as choreography is---but this has always been rejected in court

So where are your links to that case law?

Going back to the composers discussion, what's the consensus on Andrew Lippa and Adam Guettel?

Lippa is a decent composer but a terrible lyricist and yet he insists on writing his own lyrics. Guettel is good but hardly writes anything it seems

Speaking of Gary Griffin, what happened to him? He had several respected NY productions and did the original Color Purple. Where is he these days?

Guettel suffers from being the third generation. His job is to piss it all away, and he is succeeding at this job.

R564, this argument was made in the Tam Lin case (Einhorn v. Murgetroyd Prod.) , but the court stated that the only the written description of the blocking written into the rehearsal script would be covered--not the blocking itself.

This is described on page 435 of the linked article

The linked article makes a number of arguments in favor of director's copyright. But as of the time it was written, none of them had been established in court.

This is why I am interested in any subsequent rulings or court statements.

Here is the actual statement:

Nor have the parties addressed the scope and effect of the certificate of registration given the fact that the copy of the work that was filed was only the alleged blocking script as distinguished from images of a performance depicting positions and movements. They have not analyzed Einhorn's alleged contributions individually or by category. In consequence, the Court is not in a position to make an informed judgment on defendants' principal contentions.

If anyone wants to read the court's opinion, it is at the link.

Gary Griffin moved back to Chicago form whence he came.

My God, can we please have a lot less pedantry with the next thread? More about Melissa Errico's tits!

Amen

We never talk about chorus boys' sex lives any more.

I will always love Charlie Williams, that long cool sweet drink of vodka.

I don’t care as much about Melissa Errico’s tits as I do about big chorus boy dicks.

Merely an example, but the idea of her desperately trying to grab some attention with her ta-tas was good for a laugh.

Charlie’s big dick was recently felled by Covid.

honestly - what do you we know about Charlie's dick? If he's slut folks think, someone should know something. The Ashford thing is long over, right? How's Charlie? Kinda hip, kinda now? Kinda "wow"?

Charlie has been enjoying a LTR with cutie chorus boy Ryan Steele for a few years now.

Nice to know the new Seymour doesn't really feel prepared while tickets are as high as $239.

[quote] He allowed that he was “white-knuckling it a little” after being propelled onstage following just two weeks of rehearsal, so for now he is focusing on making the role his — “I’ll fill it out more and more as the run goes on,” he said.

R570 That doesn't say what you claim it does.

[quote] In consequence, the Court is not in a position to make an informed judgment on defendants' principal contentions.

Literally saying the court is not making a judgement on it.

R579 There's a video of him sucking dick and jacking himself as he does, I'd say about 7"

R583 Oh fuck.

please help us find it, this thread only has 16 more posts and some of us are lonely

I was wondering why Conrad was missing so many shows when he just took over.

Let Bette loose!

R585 and the other lonely people...

And to pre-empt - the guy he's sucking is apparently just a bartender

It looks like Charlie (if that’s him) may be uncut

PS thanks r588

I'd like to be able to say that's not Charlie but it does look like him.

I am so disappointed that the hugeness of Charlie’s dick appears to have been exaggerated.

At least we still have AKB’s huge dick. That one really is.

What’s that now?

It's Charlie - you can see part of the large tattoo on his hip in some of the frames. Also, every time it gets posted on LPSG it gets pulled down, which is the quickest confirmation that it is him.

And yes, there are a bunch of Andrew Keenan Bolger's nudes that keep getting posted. No denying it's him, you can see his face, and for a small guy he's packing a big piece.

New thread

Bon-jou? Bon....JOER? Bon-jer?

BAJOUR!

Nicely done, r596.

I hope Charlie fucked the barman. With his cock.

Like sex with my ex, I thought this thread would never end. Boring and repetitive with a decent ending.

Bajour!