Theatre Gossip #414: Homosexuals in the theater! Thread

A fine title!

[quote]Homosexuals in the theater!

Alligators in the sewers!

*clutches pearls*

Is Matt the Loon the one who keeps f&f’ng these threads?

I saw the Boys in the Band revival - the theater was filled with homosexuals on stage and in the audience.

Why don't you try adjusting your account, R4, because no one is FF'ing any of these threads. (Though they ought to, with these horrible titles. Christ!)

Why has Linda Lavin resorted to appearing on a C-list sitcom?

R7 - that's not an accurate description. B-Positive looks terrible and I have no doubt that it's not for me. But a sitcom on CBS, starring Thomas Middleditch of Silicon Valley and from the executive producer of Mom (which regularly reaches 7-8 million viewers) is hardly C-list. Lavin is 83 and sounds like she got a plumb (and, one would assume) fairly lucrative recurring role in the midst of a pandemic. Hardly sounds like she's slumming it.

Honestly, it's not a terrible show. It's got too many regular characters (Lavin included, as she seems to show up more often than some of the head credits billed actors) and it feels like they are stretching out the prelude to the kidney surgery way longer than would would realistically be necessary, but Ashford and Middleditch are good together and the scripts are not terrible.

The theme song, OTOH is sub-Beguelin.

Ashford is a delight to watch; Middleditch is painful every second. He drags the show's energy down. What were they thinking?

"A Year Without Broadway" by Charles Isherwood:

This title makes my Meghan McCain title for the previous thread look like a Pulitzer Prize winner!

And, oh yeah, speaking of the previous thread, fuck off, R592.

When Broadway Expects to Be Able to Open, And Which Shows Will Be First to Return:

[quote]Why don't you try adjusting your account, R4, because no one is FF'ing any of these threads. (Though they ought to, with these horrible titles. Christ!)

This and previous theater gossip threads also appear grayed out to me. It has nothing to do with my damned settings.

Sure, dear.

R15 Same with me, and I have asbestos eyes.

I was listening to the Brian Lehrer show on NPR this morning with guest Bill de Blasio. A casting director named Arnold called in urging the Mayor to employ NY theater talent in reopening the city. Not sure what jobs he had in mind but who is this casting director?

And de Blasio (no surprise) joined the list of NY pols demanding Cuomo resign. I'm on the fence about Cuomo resigning but am likely to believe pols like de Blasio, AOC and Jerry Nadler (both also demanding resignation) know more than we do about the personal goings on of Cuomo's office.

I will not be sitting in the Theater wearing a mask, sorry

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 2020, the COVID-19 pandemic forced the indefinite suspension of all Broadway performances.

The day the lights went dark on Broadway and COVID’s devastating impact on theater:

[quote]Ben Crawford, the phantom in Broadway’s “Phantom of the Opera,” stepped off the stage midway through the first act on the afternoon of March 12, 2020, and headed toward the dressing room. He had just made his first entrance, singing “Stranger Than You Dreamt It” to a crowd of more than 1,000 at the Majestic Theatre, when the show’s stage manager delivered the news.

"B Positive" has a really bloody, rather disgusting title sequence. It put me off watching after the first episode. As long as I get my Missy and Meemaw fix on CBS on Thursday night on "Young Sheldon", I'm good.

R17 Arnold Mungioli, perhaps? I don't know how much work he's done since "Ragtime" years ago. Maybe too much Garth Drabinsky?

DeBlasio just hates Cuomo and is getting lots of catty swipes in now the Cuomo is on the ropes. I think the dislike is mutual though.

God DAMN IT. ANOTHER theatre thread that's constantly dropping off my Watched list. Finally, the last thread was staying consistently "sticky" on my watched threads list. And, now, again, this one drops off no matter how many times I turn the eye orange and despite the fact that I already had one response on the thread. MURRRRIEEEEELLL!

Rant aside, anyone planning on buying a ticket to Liza's 75th birthday thing?

probably dramedy

R24 it drives me crazy too. It’s worse than a Frank Wildhorn musical with a book by Jeremy Harris.

[quote]Rant aside, anyone planning on buying a ticket to Liza's 75th birthday thing?

I thought about it, but $30 seems a bit steep for another clunky Zoom production.

nice title but is it the legitimate theater??

R6 Then why didn't you start a new thread with some hilarious title?

Deadline has this first part of a series of articles about the closing of Company.

Coming in part 2, more Patti snobbishness!

[quote]I said goodbye to the Jacobs, and then I thought, No, goodbye to the Royale, because the Royale had been a much more elegant theater name than the Jacobs.

Patti just got cast in a tv series. Not sure how that will affect Company.

R31 Well, a pilot. Named OK Boomer. I'd say it sounds destined for cancellation, but it's for HBO Max and they're probably desperate enough. She doesn't sound totally committed to coming back in the Deadline piece

The title of Patti's sitcom PILOT (don't believe it's been ordered to series) is OKAY, BOOMER. Ugh. I think it's a terrible idea to name a sitcom after a meme which could be completely outdated and irrelevant by the time it airs. But, good for Patti getting that coin, I guess.

I prefer "KO, Youngshit!"

The meme "OK, Boomer" is already outdated. What a terrible idea for a title.

Patti has a cameo in Last Christmas and she’s actually very funny.

Patti's last HBO pilot didn't do so well.

Have they fired Katrina Lenk yet?

I was losing threads from my threadwatcher as well. I unstarred most of the dormant threads. This fixed the issue. The new/active ones are staying put on the side and updating when new posts occur.

r39

agreed... it seems like there is a limit of threads you can watch even though I pay for the site

Charlie Williams just posted on his IG that he got vaxxed. Wonder what he did to jump the line.

I have the opposite problem on my thread watcher. After I've dismissed threads they'll come right back in the queue the next day. Of course, that's really not a problem.

Charlie Williams is an essential worker.

Yes, but I hear he's only allowed to have 25% capacity.

I presume Charlie keeps frontline workers' spirits up by blowing them.

If Company reopens they should call AnnE Hathaway and see if her schedule has cleared. It wouldn’t hurt to have a star to bring the audiences in.

Won't someone please shit in my mouth?

That juicy brown substance that comes from down south

Will make me feel young

When it lands on my tongue

So just feed me some dung

And do it now!

R47 = Matt

R48 = racist

R4 and R48 are the same neo-Nazi kiddie fucker.

[quote]Charlie Williams just posted on his IG that he got vaxxed. Wonder what he did to jump the line.

Earlier this week Cuomo changed the minimum age to 60 to get the vaccine.

A porn star boasted about getting the vaccine because he registered as an UberEats delivery driver.

I love Charlie.

All right now, class, the r43r/44/45 triad provides us with a good example of how DL comedy does and does not work. r43 places a clever, simply designed line that that is humorous, and efficiently built, citing a favorite and recently absent comedy player (i.e, Mr. Williams) and situation (i.e., Mr. Ashford) and a good payoff to the straight line innocently set-up by r41. Well done, r43.

That is followed by a satisfactory follow-up line by r44, whose work could have been punchier (i.e, "Yes, but I hear Charlie is only allowed to operate at 24% capacity.") to build on the laugh but whose contribution was, nonetheless, effective in its way.

Then r45 comes along to show us all a classic comedy [italic]fail[/italic]. His entry, so to speak, provides no wit and no real comedy, and in fact deflates the mirth by stating the necessarily tacit circumstance of the humor and, thus, killing it entirely. R45, I'm sorry, but your contribution was both unnecessary and, in fact,t damaging, ruining the joke and the general good mood of the audience.

Class dismissed.

Good mood? On a DL theatre gossip thread?

Anyone watch the Liza birthday zoom thing?

Did Pat Routledge appear?

How tall is Charlie? He never looks that tall to me on TV.

Well, what height is Chris Walken? Start there and work down.

What is that mess on his hip?

It covers half his leg now. He probably has one on his dick.

I'm watching Saturday morning cartoons. This one was just on.

I met Charlie, and remember his being about 5'10".

I've worked with Charlie and remember him as 5'8", same as me. Maybe 5'9" with thick-soled shoes.

The Liza thing was pretty boring. One person after another saying the same thing over and over...

Pretty much what I was expecting, R65. And for a mere $30, plus fees.

Given R54 was the one praising John Simon in the last thread, I think we can all agree they can fuck off with their lessons on what's witty or not.

Aw, bless.

I didn't watch the Liza thing. About how many actual performances, rather than just spoken testimonials, were in it?

Liza!

R54 was right, except I thought the second response was very much on a par with the funny first one. But the third response was lame and sophomoric.

r67 relax I was just having some fun.

R70 - aw!!! That was awfully sweet. No, the old gal's voice isn't what it was (hasn't been for... decades) but she can still imbue a song with passion and tenderness. And, for where she is, she actually sounded quite good. I'm the furthest thing from a Michael Feinstein fan, but I was even touched at how beautifully he accompanied her (like the way he tenderly turned his head toward her, both in deference and to subtly indicate to her the interlude was over and it was time to start singing again.)

Sorry for being so sentimental. I'll try to be more of a cunt later on in the thread.

Did anyone notice that someone finally ripped up Ryhog on All That Chat? His name is GavinLogan1.

I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often. There have been some idiots on that board over the years, but no one as abusive and destructive as well as stupid. You name an issue, and he's on the wrong side.

R74 - I think I found the thread you're referring to. I don't visit All That Chat frequently, so I'm not familiar with Ryhog, but his post, while perhaps a bit rough, was in defense of science and highlighted the selfishness and cruelty of conservatives. If you're quibbling with his tone.. okay. But if it's the content, then I guess you just outed yourself as a right winger.

Ryhog has been argued with at some points -- he's very opinionated and smart generally, but not generally as nasty as mockingbirdgirl. The theater professor up at Ithaca who went to school with Mary Elizabeth Mastroantonio, as he's very proud of telling us, actually once really ripped up mockingbirdgirl for real! It was WONDERFUL!

Plus you have the nastiness of passive-aggressive Singapore/Fling and whereismikeyfl who pounce on nearly any thread they enter to bully people and assert their agendas on being guilty of being white and therefore since at least S/F is white with a black boyfriend, all other white people are presumed to be monstrous purveyors of white privilege. Piece of work. Plus he'll keep coming back for more and insists on getting the last word. Whereismikeyfl piles on like his demented wingman.

R75: You attack ad hominem just like Ryhog, so stick it up your fucking ass, scumbag.

Some folks need to take a walk. Relentlessly pissy is tiresome.

You don't have to be a right-winger to loathe Ryhog's arrogance and stupidity.

Or yours.

How's mlop doing?

Oh fuck off with whatever message board bullshit this is, thanks.

Gurls! Gurls!

You all type FAT!

Like thalidomide babies slapping at the keyboard with your greasy stumps.

Oh, for a greasy stump.

[quote] Some folks need to take a walk. Relentlessly prissy is tiresome

Was that directed at me?

Speaking of greasy stumps (as R83 did) it’s time to trot out this great Noel Coward anecdote. Vivien Leigh was playing Lavinia in Titus Andronicus opposite Olivier. There is a scene where she has been raped, and so that she would not be able to identify the rapist he has cut off her hands and cut out her tongue. In this scene she has to identify him by using a stick to write in the sand with her arms. On opening night she dropped the stick halfway through and couldn't pick it up again - Olivier had to hand it to her. On appearing backstage afterwards, Noel's opening gambit was to wag his finger at her and say, "Butterstumps!"

Speaking of Kimmel, are those Ben Bagley CDs much different to the original issues? There's an occasional flubbed note that I presume could be fixed with pitch correction on a modern reissue.

I don’t know if the new CDs sound better, but for some reason Kimmel doesn’t reprint Bagley’s original liner notes, which were often hilarious. Maybe the problem is Kimmel doesn’t have a sense of humor. His online posts never show a shred of humor.

I doubt that pitch correction could be applied to those recordings because the vocals were not recorded on separate tracks. PROMISES, PROMISES was able to be pitch adjusted because the vocal tracks were isolated.

Thanks Bruce!

Maybe Kimmel couldn't get the rights to the notes. Or the humor went over his head.

Say what you will about rhog's nastiness, he is right in proclaiming that all these predictions and stated dates about when Broadway theaters will reopen, are futile and a waste of time. They'll reopen when audiences can attend in full and in a safe manner.

Is Singapore/Fling a man or a woman? I've always imagined a youngish Asian woman.

The one that drives absolutely nuts is NewtonUK, the handle of a mostly failed producer who is filled with misinformation and outdated opinions.

[Quote] I doubt that pitch correction could be applied to those recordings because the vocals were not recorded on separate tracks. PROMISES, PROMISES was able to be pitch adjusted because the vocal tracks were isolated.

They've been working on isolating the elements of mono recordings to create stereo-sounding recordings of old hits. It's known as DES. False "multitracks" are logical step of that process. We'll see - not necessarily on old Ben Bagley recordings, of course.

Stolen costumes are tradition

We Will Be Back

Chess is not a good musical. Benny and Björn did fine work but Tim’s lyrics are bad. One of the few excepetions is Pity the Child. Here Murray Head shows how to stop the show. From 1985 it says but it could also be from 83. Lasse Wellander plays the solo.

Another good song is Anthem. Young Tommy Köberg recording it in Polar Music Studios in Stockholm. I saw Tommy singing yesterday at Melodifestivalen, Swedish ESC. He still has the voice.

Closer to the title of thread, Peter is gay and married. I have followed his career from the beginning. He is few years older than I am. I know he wasn’t liked as Phantom on Broadway and I wonder why. Kristina från Duvemåla is better show and story than Chess. Peter has a record of longest top 1 single in Sweden with Guldet blev till sand from Kristina. I love this song and yes, I love Peter.

Was Hal Prince gay and married?

Peter Jöback’s wedding

Channeling Crawford. Last post of Peter for now, I promise.

Thanks, R92, I didn't know that.

The main problem with Chess isn’t the lyrics. Except for “One Night in Bangkok”, the lyrics are pretty good.

The problem with Chess is that the story is a tragedy, and they keep trying to force some sort of a happy ending on it. The version in which she’s actually reunited with her father is the worst.

Stories like theirs DO NOT have happy endings.

It’s impossible to invest in the characters in Chess. They’re the kind of characters you could feasibly build a very talky, intellectual play around, but Chess is constructed and composed like grand opera. Its inability to reconcile with itself ultimately makes it boring.

I saw Peter Jöback as the Phantom in London and I liked him quite a lot. Fans of the show today are obsessed with only Ramin Karimloo and his terrible performance and have forgotten that the Phantom is an eccentric, odd character and not really for a "leading man" type actor. Odd/unique voices work well when casting the part, but since Cameron Mackintosh controls casting now those days are gone. Ben Crawford was terrible, James Barbour was terrible, Norm Lewis was Norm Lewis in a tux, and the most recent several London Phantoms all sound the same.

Did anyone see Martin Smith in his brief run as the Phantom?

R91 From reading some of his posts (though now I avoid them), Singapore/Fling appears to be a white man with a domineering black bf who screws both his body and his mind. Give him props for the body screwing, perhaps, but not for the cancel culture and white self-hate and proselytizing that has resulted from this.

Oh, yeah. I'm sure he really suffers from white self hate.

He put something like that in one of his recent posts, which I unfortunately read since I had been following most of it, until he and his wingman/nut chimed in.

most of the thread I had been following, that is -- I usually avoid his posts since they are predictable and frankly tedious after a while.

r98, what are the origins of this hal prince/gay and married thing? obviously you can never tell much about a marriage, but he seems to have been quite devoted to judy.

I'll also ask:

Was Hal Prince gay but married (and the father of two kids)? This seemed to be the rumor more during the Sondheim collaborations but not whispered about so much in his final decades. I've never heard any answers. I wonder if with his death there will be a definitive bio. There are still so many collaborators alive to contribute.

I've heard speculation about Prince being gay/bi and closeted in his long marriage to the same woman, but I've never been convinced. When he was alive (especially around the same time of ALL THAT JAZZ), there were similar rumors about Bob Fosse being bisexual as well.

Some people (including some gay men) simply cannot conceive of straight men participating in music theatre, film, dance, design, etc. Or any creative pursuit. Even now.

Anyone who's spent more than a minute in those fields professionally can tell you that yes, gay men are well represented in all of them, but it's not an exclusive club. Particularly when straight white men still largely control the finances, the means of production, and much of the creative decision-making in most of these industries.

The only story I ever heard about Prince involved Michael Bennett, during the Company-Follies time period. It seems unlikely to me, but who can know other than the principals?

And I suppose who really cares? Whatever secrets (or not) he may have had, he was married for 50+ years and a devoted family man.

[quote]From reading some of his posts (though now I avoid them), Singapore/Fling appears to be a white man with a domineering black bf who screws both his body and his mind. Give him props for the body screwing, perhaps, but not for the cancel culture and white self-hate and proselytizing that has resulted from this.

Agreed, R106. That person is a sad textbook example of a brainwashed SJW. All the more frightening because he does seem to be quite intelligent, but apparently not enough to escape having been brainwashed.

Re Hal Prince, beginning about 40 years ago, I started hearing from several sources that he was in some sort of relationship with Larry Fuller, who did choreography and/or musical staging for five Prince shows on Broadway. I have no idea if that's true, but that's what I've heard from more than one source that seemed reliable. And come on, people! It's possible for a bisexual or even a gay man to be devoted to his wife and father children, whether or not he is also involved with men (or a man) on the side. I think it's fair to say that none of us has any idea exactly what sort of relationship or understanding he and Judy may or may not have had.

She gives good tips how to audition and perform in musicals. This is the latest.

[quote] The one that drives absolutely nuts is NewtonUK, the handle of a mostly failed producer who is filled with misinformation and outdated opinions.

Agreed. He also regularly trashes shows. Odd, when you consider how snakebit his own producing career has been. If there is a positive side to ryhog, it's that he regularly calls NewtonUK out on his bullshit.

I can[italic]not[/italic] believe we are talking about All That Chat.

Oh, and which producer is NewtonUK ???

Martin Platt

[quote] Re Hal Prince, beginning about 40 years ago, I started hearing from several sources that he was in some sort of relationship with Larry Fuller, who did choreography and/or musical staging for five Prince shows on Broadway. I have no idea if that's true, but that's what I've heard from more than one source that seemed reliable.

According to Bob Avian, Larry Fuller was Michael Bennett's lover for many years, so perhaps Michael helped Larry get that work. (And perhaps Hal hoped Michael would help Larry w/ the staging, even unofficially.)

Jagged Little Pill won the Grammy for best cast album

What was it up against? Moulin Rouge and.....?

Amélie, American Utopia, Little Shop of Horrors, Prince of Egypt and Soft Power. Moulin Rouge was nominated last year (and lost to Hadestown).

[quote] Did anyone see Martin Smith in his brief run as the Phantom?

Martin Smith. Sigh. What a hottie he was. Such a pity that he died so young (37)..

Hottest Che in EVITA?

On the last thread I also mentioned the hot and talented Michael staniforth who played Tobias in London and also did a lot of children’s TV. Died young too. He’s good and quite the little hottie in Sweeney.

Hal certainly knew his way around a cock or two...

Didn't Larry Kert get cast in COMPANY because...

Hal Prince had a cockatoo?

It's remarkable to me that Murray Head was so underwhelming in Sunday Bloody Sunday, but such a great actor in JC Superstar and Chess - even if you only listen to the albums.

Perhaps he was intimidated by the titans in the Sunday cast.

Or perhaps Head was only a great actor when singing but not when delivering dialogue. There are such people.

Preach!

Those photos of Martin Smith were bugging me because I knew I'd seen some of them before, and then I remembered I'd read about him last year on IG on one of those memorial pages. I had to go back and find it. He died of AIDS.

Larry Kert: Who do I have to fuck to get out of this show [Company]?

Sondheim: Same person you fucked to get into it.

True-ish story.

True-ish indeed. I've heard it happened during WSS. Also, could have been Bernstein, Laurents, or Robbins.

Or, it could just be apocryphal.

But a great story, ya gotta admit.

I'm pretty sure Sondheim said it, and that it was during Company. I think it may have been in the Secrest biography. But he could have been referring to anyone.....right?

[Quote] Bernstein, Laurents, or Robbins.

[Quote] Homosexuals in the theater!

I believe the quote is attributed to Miss Una Merkel in one of the Gold Digger movies. Pre-Code, doncha know.

It would have made a lot more sense during WSS because Larry Kert was an unknown then who may indeed have needed to fuck someone (Robbins, Bernstein, Sondheim, et. al.) to be cast as Tony. Also, as he was supposedly Robbins' chosen scapegoat in that cast, it's logically something Larry would've said.

Why would Larry have wanted out of Company, after all?

"Larry Kert?"

"He only said NO once, and that was when he didn't understand the question!"

[quote]It would have made a lot more sense during WSS because Larry Kert was an unknown then who may indeed have needed to fuck someone (Robbins, Bernstein, Sondheim, et. al.) to be cast as Tony. Also, as he was supposedly Robbins' chosen scapegoat in that cast, it's logically something Larry would've said.

I have read and heard that Mickey Calin (later Michael Callan) was Robbins' primary scapegoat in that show, but I agree that the "Who do I have to fuck to get out of this show?" story about Kert/Sondheim makes more sense in relation to WEST SIDE STORY than to COMPANY. Aside from everything else, COMPANY was already up and running when Kert joined the cast, so he would have missed all or most of the sturm and drang involved in rehearsing and putting up a new show.

[quote]But he could have been referring to anyone.....right?

Sondheim would presumably have been referring to someone who would have had power over casting Kert, and there are only a very few possibilities given that criterion.

Was the story from when Kert was in the Broadway "Company" or perhaps the London transfer? I suppose he could have felt burned out and complained at a party.

From Secrest at 201, relating a story about a tech rehearsal for the London opening of Company, told by Ned Sherrin: Kert became exhausted and then exasperated. "He came striding toward the front of the stage, looked out balefully across the orchestra and said "Who do I have to screw to get out of this show?...shocked silence at Her Majesty's....finally broken by a small Sondheim voice from the back of the stalls saying "Same person you screwed to get in."

I didn't know Ryan could read, let alone write books.

Very droll, r145.

Someone please make it stop:

This comes after twenty Black cast members from the original and current Broadway cast wrote a private letter to Matt Stone, Trey Parker, and Robert Lopez, expressing concerns. They said America was being forced to evaluate 'the systemic racism and racial inequality' in every industry, and theatre was no exception.

The group of creatives consulted producers Anne Garefino, Scott Rudin and Sonia Friedman, and have decided to invite principal actors from productions around the world to attend a workshop. During the reading, they will read through the show line-by-line, and sort out any problematic parts.

"What's great about Matt and Trey is they'd rather close the show than make it feel PC and not funny," said Lopez, before adding: "No one wants to close. We want to make it better."

Stone also spoke on the plans, saying, "I can't imagine trying to make a politically correct Book Of Mormon."

Two former cast members, Nikki M. James and Arbender Robinson, believe that subsequent productions have strayed from the core of what the show was originally supposed to be. "We can't expect our audience to fully understand it, if all of us aren't completely on the same page of understanding as well," Robinson said.

Potential changes could include "some tweaks to certain lines of dialogue, so things are more insulated against misreadings."

"No one is going back on stage until they feel great about it," Stone assured.

Will they ask for a percentage if their own lines are added to the show?

With a show that irreverent, it sounds like a very good idea. Humor changes. And replacements and subsequent companies do [italic]not[/italic] get to let the original nuance inform their performances. Anyone who saw [italic]The Producers[/italic] late in its run can attest to (1) humor that had passed its sell-by date and (2) performers who has crossed into the unfunny realm of parody of parody.

Nobody's canceling anything here (yet) but they're continuing to monitor and evaluate.

Doesn't the stage manager do that anyway?

Tom Kitt accepts the Grammy award for "Jagged Little Pill":

"What Ever Happened to the Tonys?"

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1956, "My Fair Lady" opened at the Mark Hellinger Theatre.

I wonder if one of the lines of dialogue in MORMON that will be "tweaked" is the one about how some of the Ugandans think one way to cure AIDS is to fuck little babies. (I'm not making this up.) Presumably this little bit is based on a horrific, disgusting reality, but regardless, I'm still amazed that it has been in the show all this time with no major protests that I'm aware of.

[quote] Doesn't the stage manager do that anyway?

Stage managers aren't directors. And they certainly aren't writers, if lines could use some tweaking. This is more topical, timely humor that may need freshening in a way that classics may not.

R153 and fuck the Nederlanders for selling that gorgeous theater to a church! One of the worst Broadway real estate decisions ever made. Only one that was worse was tearing down three theaters to build that Marriott Marquis monstrosity. Fuck you Ed Koch for that one.

One hundred percent agreed, R156. And one more disastrous, horrendous Broadway real estate decision was the short-sighted, idiot Shuberts as landlords closing down and then tearing down three beloved theater restaurants on 45th Street years ago to make way for a new hotel for which construction STILL has not yet begun. FUCK them as well.

A new hotel that was supposed to contain a new theatre - until the Shuberts decided the cost was too prohibitive and they'd rather have everyone killing themselves to try to get one of their existing theatres, the rare times that they are available.

Further to the Nederlanders selling the Mark Hellinger, they also made sure that the sale price to the church was beyond the reach of any of the Broadway landlords or other interested buyers. If they weren't going to own it and keep it as a theatre, they wanted to make sure no one else would get their hands on it. They also ruined the New Amsterdam Theatre by not sealing up the roof after they ran tests in the 1980s and found rotted steel beams. So a theatre that was worn but salvageable was almost completely destroyed by their negligence, until the City and State of New York stepped in. The Nederlanders also owned the Harris Theatre on 42nd Street - a single balcony 1200-seat house that would have been booked consistently for the last 25 years, but instead was unceremoniously demolished to clear space for Madame Tussauds.

Oh man, I went to the Harris many times to see movies as teenager. Two things you never did there- go to the bathroom or put your feet on the floor once you sat down.

My gf just forwarded the piece written by the man in Hamilton who claims they are racist and homophobic. Anyone else read it? He seems like a cast member with a very inconsequential track who is angry that he was never promoted to a principal role, after constantly expressing interest. He really comes down hard on the show but I don't understand how any of his examples or anecdotes show racism or homophobia. In fact, everyone seems to have treated him very politely, by his own testimony.

R160, can you link this article? If not, where was it published?

Is the cast member making accusations of racism against the show's producers? The creative staff?

r161 it's on the website aninjusticemag.com at top of the page.

I shall link this....

[quote]Hamilton is, without question, a Boys’ Club rooted in toxic masculinity and heteronormativity which is derived from its four creators: Lin Manuel Miranda, Tommy Kail, Andy Blankenbeuhler, and Alex Lacamoire — all of whom are straight cis-gendered men with either white or light-skinned privilege. In my experience, they facilitated a heterosexist work environment that made “some persons comfortable or powerful” while “providing supports, assets, approvals, and rewards to those who live and expect to live in heterosexual pairs”.⁴ The creative team gravitated towards and showed genuine interest in straight male cast members and lavished, in my opinion, inappropriate attention upon female cast members while I got a lot of “hey buddy”s or “hey man”s in passing. Straight cast members were granted the most mobility within the company. Many of the men that were transferred or promoted were straight, or white, or had the compounded privilege of both. It was not uncommon for heterosexual couples who started dating during their time with the show to get transferred to different companies together as package deals.

Correlation is not causation.

Oh my! Thank you, r163.

Talk about someone who should not ever have entered show business.

"I am, however, drawing a correlation between the dearth of representation and intersectionality within the gatekeepers and leaders of Hamilton and the ways in which it exacerbated, compounded, and contributed to such pre-existing trauma..."

Oh jesus. Grow up.

It gets better:

"My mental health continued to deteriorate. All of the positive self-work I was doing in psychoanalysis was juxtaposed with the triggering invisibility I felt every night when I walked into the theatre. The even keeled facade that I had spent my whole life curating began to crumble and my private pain began manifesting publicly. I was having panic attacks. I was barely eating and became addicted to working out. My moods began vacillating between exponentially greater extremes of highs and lows. I felt so stuck and stagnant. And to add insult to injury, when I began contract negotiations in November 2018 for what would have been my third consecutive one-year rider, the only raise Hamilton offered me was an increase of $40/week."

"In the early morning hours of January 26, 2019, I was sexually assaulted and held at gunpoint. I will not go into great detail about my assault or its subsequent legal proceedings in this piece but I feel it is an important part of the narrative, as it was a turning point for me in many ways. It would be months before I would begin to process the traumatic complexities and aftershock of the assault, but in the days and weeks immediately following, I kept returning to certain thoughts from that night. Specifically, the thoughts running through my head as I begged for my life. I kept flashing to my family and how much they couldn’t lose me. I was having visions of my unlived life and how this just simply could not be the end for me. I had too much more to do, too much more to experience, too much more of myself to become, and I didn’t want a musical that was making me feel so fucking worthless in life to be the thing most associated with me in death. I did not want the headline of my murder to read ‘Hamilton Cast Member Found Dead’.

Wasn’t the first replacement Hamilton on Broadway a gay man who is HIV+?

In late March 2019, while Hamilton was in Detroit, I admitted myself to a partial hospitalization program for psychiatric treatment. I had been suppressing the trauma of the assault since it happened. Only a small handful of my castmates, along with the show’s company management and security team, knew about it. The nearly two months of suppressing that trauma, the constant exhaustion and invalidation from my job, and the impending anxiety about my future had created a perfect storm of untenable depression that began to manifest itself in increasingly harmful ways. I was isolating myself from my friends and peers. I was drinking heavily at home. I was immersed within a vicious cycle of binge eating, complete deprivation, and obsessive exercise. I was beginning to self-harm. I did not necessarily want to die but I did not necessarily want to live either. I never made a plan to kill myself, but I knew that if I did not seek intervention I would continue down this self-destructive path and eventually succumb to any suicidal ideations.

The original Bway cast of HAMILTON was full of gays, including DL fave Jonathan Groff.

But the actor who wrote the article was in one of the touring companies.

It won't be doing him any favors to have casting directors and people who could pass him on to creatives read this; they are paid to remember not only talent, but people who are talented and who aren't giving indications they will be trouble.

It reads like he was a nightmare to manage. Admitting his own mental challenges, its hard to read this and think anything other than he needs some serious help. All his accusations about Hamilton seem insignificant to the behaviors he admits to.

[quote]Talk about someone who should not ever have entered show business.

That probably won't be a problem for him anymore.

[quote]Wasn’t the first replacement Hamilton on Broadway a gay man who is HIV+?

Javier Munoz.

So he's complaining that he wasn't befriended, whilst also admitting to isolating himself from his friends and peers?

[quote]What white people fail to realize–– well, one of the many things that white people fail to realize–– is that for many marginalized people our lives have been dictated by negotiation of our identities as we navigate public spaces, including the workplace.³ We are taught that we must be palatable and easy to work with if we are to advance professionally.

Because that only applies to non-white people? This seems to be a common thing with him - every negative thing only happens to black people, never to white people, etc. In his world apparently white people are promoted on demand, never lied to by their bosses, never receive shitty pay increases, etc.

[quote]I told myself that I would not play Man 6 forever. I had a number of conversations with the team in which I expressed my interest in moving up to one of the principal roles I understudied, if and when the opportunity became available. I was most explicit about my interest in George Washington. Within the Angelica Company alone, there were two opportunities in which I could have been promoted to GW, and both times I was passed over without any acknowledgment whatsoever.

Good to see he was being realistic about career advancement though!

Someone should ask him if he really thought meme gifs was the right choice to sprinkle throughout what he presumably thinks is a serious piece.

I have not worked on Hamilton but I have many friends who have, and it is always described to me as the nightmare of all nightmare shows. Zero discipline or professionalism from the cast- the inmates running the prison. Zero expectation of 8 shows a week, further normalizing absenteeism as acceptable. Brutal choreography and endless daytime rehearsals leading to injury and thus more rehearsals. The director having flings with female cast members, some of whom used the casting couch to get the show in the first place. Massive cocaine use/abuse backstage in the Chicago company leading to endless call-outs. At least one actor fired from Chicago but hired again for another company. Obnoxious creatives who believe they invented theater. Burnt out management reporting nothing and riding the gravy train. A current plan I keep hearing about to diversify the backstage jobs on the tours without regard to talent, experience employment history or anything other than gender/race despite all of those jobs being already filled pre-covid. I could go on.

It is 100% a corporate machine exploiting BLM etc for money and they don't care about anyone or anything but money. But every show I've done at this level is a corporate machine and this actor should have realized that a lot sooner.

That sounds like Any Workplace, USA.

Welcome to the adult world.

Welcome to the free enterprise system.

Welcome to the theatre. You fool, you'll love it...SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!

R178 Sounds awful - is that considered vaguely normal for tours, or a total outlier? If the latter, why is it allowed? Hell, why is it going on in the first place?

R180, every show is different. People party here and there, and there's a long history (sadly) of substance abuse in shows, but there was always a line you don't cross, and the line is that your outside recreation doesn't affect your performance or your attendance. When it does and people start to notice, USUALLY you get called on it. It depends on the strength of the management of the tour you're on, and the culture of the show as a whole. The culture on Hamilton is rotten with the worst kind of egomania and pompous righteousness and a lot of what this actor writes about in terms of the management of the show is accurate. It IS awful and sad, and it's part of a really terrible trend of bad shows and corporate "producers" that's led to a huge amount of cynicism in the business that I hope will go away in time.

But r181, his biggest complaint about management seemed to be that they didn't promote him to a lead and had him go on for one of those leads when he felt he wasn't ready. Is there something I'm missing?

That's certainly the gist R182, but he what he's saying about the enterprise as a whole is accurate from what I've heard. I'm certainly not defending him or his unrealistic expectations of earned promotion. He'll probably never work again because of this essay, but some of what he's saying is true. I've always heard that they have incredible trouble keeping the (too many) Hamilton companies cast, but I'm sure they'll find a M6 that won't make waves. And believe me, fitting into costumes that already exist and not making waves are all they really want anymore.

Alexander Hamilton is responsible for that state of affairs, R179.

I understand. Thanks, r183. Are people taking this guy's article seriously, do you think, or will saner minds prevail and see that this is an illogical piece written by a disgruntled person with many issues who has decided his alienation is due to racism or homophobia? I didn't see anything homophobic or racist described in that piece. He describes a massively successful corporate show not taking the time to coddle each and every person. Nothing in the article describes hostility, racism or homophobia - unless creatives (the reason the show exists) being white or white-passing and a lot of straight men in the cast constitutes racism and homophobia. I didn't read anything that could be construed as a hostile work environment in that piece.

I have no idea what the general reaction to the article is. I also don't know the other side of the story- how problematic he was and how talented he was when he was on for a lead. I agree with the rest of your points, however Hamilton generally coddles actors far more than they should. Here's one example:

When the Philip Company teched and opened in , actors complained that the dressing rooms- which were the only bathrooms in the theater- were too far from the stage. So, Hamilton forced forced the theater to add porta-potties in the loading dock area, which then attracted homeless and caused other problems. It's hard to describe how ridiculous this bathroom complaint was if you have a general knowledge of every other theater in the country (especially in New York), or how many hundreds of shows have played these theaters under the same conditions. The porta-potty incident set a really, really bad precedent at the outset of an open-ended tour.

Hamilton is a nightmare, I can't believe they are STILL post- COVID planning to launch a third simultaneous US tour in C and D markets when the show wasn't selling out in many markets on its first time through.

That's going to age like the Gary Coleman jokes in [italic]Avenue Q.[/italic].

Hamilton being cancelled and bringing an end to LMM’s incessant self-promotion and virtue signaling is precisely what the most overrated musical of the 21st century deserves. You can hate Rent all you want, but Jonathan Larson was pure in his motives to bring Broadway to the mainstream in a time when that concept was outrageous, with so many artists having died of AIDS. LMM is not Larson.

Broadway was the mainstream before rock music supplanted it.

R188 has an irrelevant axe to grind.

R190 is Jeremy O. Harris.

R186 What on earth is behind such unearned entitlement? Just because they're in Hamilton? Or from the sounds of it, perhaps the problems start in management, and so the cast feel they can behave like shit as well? Perhaps this is like the days before the Les Mis bloodletting on Broadway? The current management team just care about the money and nothing else matters much? Though I guess the problem is there's no Cameron Mackintosh type figure.

Ironically sounds like this fool could've been on to something if he didn't go on about himself so much.

[Quote] But every show I've done at this level is a corporate machine and this actor should have realized that a lot sooner.

I totally, agree R178. I'm always surprised when people who work in this business that we call show have trouble comprehending that it is, first and foremost, a business.

[quote] Though I guess the problem is there's no Cameron Mackintosh type figure.

There is in the London company. I wonder how hands-on he is there.

Girls, girls, GIRLS!

You’re both overrated schlockfests whose popularity represents a cancer on music and by proxy on musical theatre.

I don't have any answer for you, R192. I think it's partly generational, partly the show and the bullshit factory that surrounds it and partly an attitude that develops among shows that don't require more classical-style training. These hit shows cast young, and young actors learn from the older how to behave professionally when they first start working- or at least the good ones do, anyway. But what happens when there's no example to follow and a poison culture telling you that you walk on water? Make no mistake, most of the people who appear in Hamilton won't find much other work, it's the nature of the business.

There's also a stereotype/myth about shows with non-white casts and Hamilton unfortunately does nothing to dispel that...and it's not a myth, it's true.

Cameron Mackintosh in the early days sought to maintain high quality productions worldwide as a point of pride and good business to insure repeating viewing of his shows, but he lost those ideals along the way as his stacks of money grew larger. That said, Richard Jay Alexander who was his supervisor in the US for Les Miz, behaved horribly to actors in general and thought he was some creative force of genius. Ditto for Peter Von Mayrhauser and Phantom.

R193 yes, it's a business first and foremost but there was a time not long ago when shows were written, produced, designed, created and managed by show people who didn't expect to even break even. Those days are gone, and nothing gets produced commercially in New York for any purpose other than profit. The ridiculous woke "speaking truth the power" and "white theater people" idiots don't understand that it will never change no matter how many essays they write or focus groups they form.

Art is a business, the business of selling ideas.

[quote] There's also a stereotype/myth about shows with non-white casts and Hamilton unfortunately does nothing to dispel that...and it's not a myth, it's true.

Not sure I follow. What's the myth, r196?

R196, shows with mostly black actors and especially black creative teams (see: Motown the Musical) are horrific to work on- get anyone who has worked on Lion King, Aida, Color Purple, Noise/Funk, Ain't too Proud, Dreamgirls, Motown etc in a one on one setting and they'll tell you. It affects some crew members/departments worse than others. The backstage culture on these shows is a bizarro world- the total opposite of what is normal, acceptable, professional behavior.

A huge percentage of actors on these shows behave horribly with a massive sense of entitlement and an unrealistic idea that they are god's gift to the theater and irreplaceable. They treat the wardrobe and hair departments like shit. They cannot perform 8 shows a week and will blame anyone or anything for their lack of training (scream their way through 3-4 shows and then blame the sound department). Ensemble members will often lip sync (not sing) and mark choreography. They'll sing whatever alternate notes, harmonies, riffs/runs and do whatever line readings they feel like doing today. Try to give them notes and see what happens.

There is no expectation of professionalism amongst the company after the cast pushes stage management to their limits, and their talent and abilities are gifted by the Almighty God.

The script on the "Motown" tour changed weekly and there were 3 re-techs to add/change/delete songs or medleys or scenes.

Actors call out last minute or mid show constantly- on one of the Lion King tours they figured out when to call out so they could be paid for the entire show without performing it and that behavior became rampant. They are always late. Try to enforce rules/normalcy and write them up they'll cry racism/persecution. They often have ridiculous diva-like demands or complaints about stupid shit. If this behavior is not directly enabled by the creatives (see: Motown, once again) little is ever done ultimately because it is expensive to replace actors. It was far worse before the one-year rider system for the ensemble but GMs are still reluctant to fire anyone.

Work backstage on any hip hop concert or other black-run production (Tyler Perry) and it's chaos with no organization and the refusal to stick to any schedule, script or normalcy.

Talk about any of this in public and you're a racist, but it's true. I wish it weren't.

Any more gossip to spill. R199?

I just noticed “gossip” spelled backwards is “pissog” which sounds like a contraction of “piss hog.”

Sure R199. As we already know Karen Olivo is a mess. She left acting and moved to Wisconsin with her current husband and got a job teaching at some college there. She was fired from that job and the husband supposedly has a gambling problem, so she went back to acting for the money because I guess they were broke. She also has a coke problem and is unable to do 8 shows a week. Karen had at least one extra-marital affair during Hamilton and I was told that marriage was essentially over, but they're still together I think.

Clifton Oliver has a severe mental illness problem that he treats with cocaine and booze. He was the standby Lola in the out-of-town of Kinky Boots and was the only actor in the out of town company not transferred to Broadway. He had at least one DUI when he was in Lion King but the show covered it up and kept him employed for years. His substance problems caused a show stoppage and ultimate cancellation in previews on the Motown tour. With the help of the racist hack director he blamed the white crew at a company meeting for his inability to perform and that touched off two years of chaos and bad blood backstage.

Why is Mr Oliver protected? He ain't got a name.

Mr. Oliver seems to be running a mentorship program for young men with abs.

Something for which he should be commended.

R203 at the time the understudies hadn't even been rehearsed and the show was stuck with him. He signed a one-year contract and was not renewed, but the producers were too cheap to buy him out even though his tyrannical bullshit continued for a year and enabled the bad behavior of other actors. I'm sure most of his bullshit wasn't even reported and he had the backing of the racist director and clown co-choreographers. For the record, the associate director and associate choreographer did all of the real work staging and maintaining the show. The co-choreographers when giving notes had to ask the cast what the steps were- they didn't know.

Who's to blame for the creative team?

[quote] They'll sing whatever alternate notes, harmonies, riffs/runs and do whatever line readings they feel like doing today. Try to give them notes and see what happens.

I never heard Audra McDonald go off the melody in the TV musicals she was in.

Talk about intersectional. One issue with several of the anti-racist groups in the theatre is that they reflect a combo of race/millennial/actor, and the issues get conflated. They feel entitled, unrecognized, held back, etc., and I know a quite young female Black director who thinks she should be doing Broadway already and that it's white supremacy that's holding her back. This Hamilton actor seems to combine everything and infer it's racism. It's a tough, competitive business, with way more candidates than jobs. As r165 says, Correlation is not causation.

[quote]His substance problems caused a show stoppage and ultimate cancellation in previews on the Motown tour.

Damn, any further details you can offer on this particular incident. I don't doubt a word you've written about Clifton, but I'm sorry to hear it, because I met him once or twice and he seemed nice. Of course, we only spoke for a few moments.....

Not much to say R210. He was out until 4am partying and couldn't sing the show that night, and then blamed everyone else. He's likely burned through his chances on big commercial shows. He is not a nice person, and if you compare video of his early Lion King days to his later performances, you'll see what no technique and long term substance abuse has done to his voice.

Thanks, R211. Very sorry to hear. Not to belabor it, but I still don't understand why his inability to perform resulted in a cancellation of the performance. I guess no one was prepared to go on for him, which apparently is not an unheard of situation for a show like that?

Where's David Merrick when you need him?

Clifty we all got pain.

R211 Understudies are not rehearsed until after opening. His voice gave out late in the second act and there was no one to replace him.

[quote]Where's David Merrick when you need him?

Where's a discussion of "Follies" when you need one?

Thanks, R211/215. What a mess he seems to be :-(

FINALLY! A thread with some juicy backstage GOSSIP!!!!

And, to go back to the Hamilton gay ensemble member's bitching about not getting promoted because he was gay, the show has had more than one gay lead. Joseph Morales, the Hamilton in the Phillip Tour is a big 'mo.

Just listening to an interview with Justin Guarini. You may remember him from AMERICAN IDOL, but he's actually done several Broadway musicals and regionally. He's matured into a very engaging performer.

He told a story about spending several months in intense preparation (at his own expense) to replace a lead role in a big Bway show. At the very last minute, he was told NO, with no further reasons given. He described the experience as devastating.

The interviewer successfully guessed the show: HAMILTON.

Aw, that's a shame. Justin is likeable, and still pretty cute.

I wanna hear more about the MOTOWN shit show (as well as AIN'T TOO PROUD).

Or just any shit show - those were the most interesting posts in months....

I don't understand- Guarini spent months preparing at his own expense and he didn't get a contract first? That's his own stupidity then.

Agreed, as told by R219, the Guarini/HAMILTON story doesn't really make sense. I'm thinking R219 didn't relate the story properly. But I do agree that Guarini has matured into a wonderful, talented, engaging performer, with a very beautiful singing voice.

These stories ring true on so many levels. I gave up the business after a 25 year career, because I finally realized that professional theater was not about art, but about business. And an unfair business at that. I was left with a lot of great stories, but little sense of real accomplishment. Thank god I saved and didn't overindulge like so many of my friends.

I have friends who saw Justin play Bobby in Company somewhere and loved him. Said he was the best Bobby ever and these queens saw DEAN JONES!

Not that I was ever super aware of Justin Guarini but I was truly surprised by his gorgeous singing in the Encores' PAINT YOUR WAGON. His rendition of "I Talk to the Trees" and a couple of other numbers on the CD are absolutely beautiful and his voice hearkens back to tenors (or is it baritones?) of the Golden Age of Broadway. That entire recording is wonderful.

PYW

Thanks, r228!

Please give it a listen, DLers.

[quote]I have friends who saw Justin play Bobby in Company somewhere and loved him.

He played Bobby at Bucks County Playhouse.

DL Fave Aaron Tveit played Bobby at Barrington Stage in the Berkshires.

Thayne Jasperson pings to high heaven. But maybe it's just because he's Mormon

Thayne Jasperson has publicly stated that he's struggling with his sexual orientation. I believe he has said that he is sexually attracted to men but is trying not to act on that attraction because of his "religion." Can you fucking believe that, in the second decade of the 21st century? I don't know if he should be pitied or smacked in the face and told to grow a set of balls, and use them. What a tragically sad waste of a breathtakingly beautiful body and an ass so hot that Lin-Manuel actually joked about it in the HAMILTON documentary. Unbelievable, incredible, pathetic.

R233 We actually just started the THIRD decade of the 21st century.

2001 to 2010: first decade 2011 to 2020: second decade 2021 to 2030: third decade

Justin looks very at home with these two.

Does [italic]Hamilton[/italic] have the straightest creative team of any musical, at least in a long time? Except for producer Jeffrey "I'm Smarter and Hipper than Everyone on Broadway Because I Produced [italic]Hamilton[/italic] and [italic]Rent[/italic]" Seller (not technically part of the creative team, I know), they're all straight, no? Not saying that Belnavis's complaints are valid, but just observing.

Found this old pic of Guarini, just because

There are more straight men working in Broadway musical theatre than most people realize, especially in power positions.

But on creative teams?

To finish my thought at r239, I mean where a whole creative team is straight: director, songwriters, bookwriters, choreo, MD, etc.

Jerry Zaks, Bart Sher, Alex Timbers, John Rando, Des McAnuff, Tommy Kail are all straight. Casey Nicholaw, Jack O'Brien, Jerry Mitchell and Scott Ellis are gay. Joe Mantello is gay but rarely directs musicals.

Wouldn't it be great if these talented people could get back to work this year?

I've worked with Justin Guarini on B'way. He's a talented, completely professional, and very nice guy.

I heard he was excellent in the Vassar workshop of the ill-fated [italic]Good Vibrations[/italic] but didn't move with it to Broadway. Did he just know it sucked, or was there an issue?

[quote] Guarini had a role in the 2004 pre-Broadway New York Stage and Film Powerhouse Theater workshop/presentation of the musical Good Vibrations at Vassar College. His performance (which included singing, dancing, acting, and playing guitar) landed Guarini an offer to continue the role in the original Broadway production, which he eventually declined.

Guarini totally got the style for "Paint Your Wagon". I was very impressed by his voice.

James Snyder, terrific in "Fanny" at Encores, is another male singer who excels in the standard Broadway legit style.

and he's hot (not just by broadway's low "hot" standards).

Adam did as well, r246.

Snyder was an outstanding Billy Bigelow at Goodspeed.

I was once at workshop of a new musical that Snyder was doing, and when he walked in wearing some crazy-tight jeans and a t shirt, half the audience gasped. No lie.

[quote]We actually just started the THIRD decade of the 21st century.

I knew someone was going to say that! But actually, I read Thayne Jasperson's statement about his sexuality sometime in 2019 or earlier, and I'm not sure if his thinking has evolved since then. So my phrasing was correct.

[quote]Jerry Zaks, Bart Sher, Alex Timbers, John Rando, Des McAnuff, Tommy Kail are all straight.

I've always had my doubts about Sher's straightness, partly because of his obsession with Matthew Morrison, but also......have you ever heard him speak?

[quote] Does Hamilton have the straightest creative team of any musical, at least in a long time? Except for producer Jeffrey "I'm Smarter and Hipper than Everyone on Broadway Because I Produced Hamilton and Rent" Seller (not technically part of the creative team, I know), they're all straight, no? Not saying that Belnavis's complaints are valid, but just observing.

The [italic]Annie[/italic] librettist, composer, and lyricist were all married, heterosexual men with children.

Marvin Hamlisch wasn't gay which made him the only heterosexual man among the creative team of [italic]A Chorus Line[/italic] if I recall correctly.

Wasn't lyricist Edward Kleban also straight, R252? (I never saw A CLASS ACT, the show about him.) I assumed he was.

Bartlett Sher doesn't ping for me so much. He has that slightly geeky, NYC-Jewish guy thing that sounds a bit fey to some people.

I know it astonishes some of you, but there are straight men who are rabid music theatre fans. Social media is filled with them.

*FOLLIES*

I've answered my own question. Kleban is identified as straight in A CLASS ACT, with several female love interests.

Is that Yvonne DeCarlo’s death mask at R254?

I thought Timbers was gay. No?

That Alex Lambert Brigadoon is stunning. Where is that from?

R253 Also, years ago musical theater was popular music, and there were shows nicknamed "tired businessmen shows" which were basically entertaining shows of varying quality, easy to sit through that straight guys who take their wives or dates. Plus they would go to the big shows of the day as well. Guys who went to musicals weren't assumed to be gay. Lots of people had the LPs of "My Fair Lady", the Rodgers & Hammerstein shows, etc. Somewhere after rock music, I guess, maybe when Sondheim had his big shows in the 1970s, things changed perhaps? Show tunes didn't make the radio much anymore, so musicals seemed like an alternate lifestyle for some, something some folks attributed to gays, many of whom still liked the musical theater.

I don't know Timbers personally, but his (hugely overrated) work onstage screams hipster-alpha-str8 boy energy, quite desperately. Ugly, overloud, lumbering, and charmless.

I'm thinking in particular of MOULIN ROUGE, BLOODY BLOODY ANDREW JACKSON, and his musicalized LOVES LABOURS LOST for the Delacorte.

Is Timbers worth shivering his timbers?

Alex is straight but wouldn't be surprised if he's dabbled. It's the hipster thing to do.

Can't remember, r258, but he's 22 there. By the way, oh dear.

Tired businessmen wanted gams, r259...

Does the death of James Levine belong on this thread?

Well, he seemed to like gams r265.

Gay Asian Mens?

The Adam Lambert Brigadoon performance is from Houston's Theatre Under the Stars in 2004. It's gorgeously sung, and his control is astounding.

Is it the girl or is it the gown?

I wouldn't know, r269. She wore the gown and...

Broadway needs more Yalies...

So is there any truth to the rumors that the MORMAN casts may force a closing of the show if they changes they want to the script don't happen? I can't believe Rudin would go for that on free speech grounds, and the controversy would only spike sales.

I doubt Parker and Stone would allow for any changes. I think they’re hearing them out. There was an article in The Daily Fail about it and Lopez and one of the two were quoted, I got the impression they are humoring the cast members.

I think it’s funny that these cast members had no problems cashing their paychecks for years, but NOW it’s a problem. If it’s so problematic are they going to return all that money?

If Parker and Stone acquiesced then they’d be no better than the things they parody in South Park.

Isn't there a video of a cast member talking about how racist the show is?

One of the articles....

Josh Gad's take...

Have you all read this?

I say this--with affection. He could very well be a DLer, and a contributor to this thread.

(And tasteful friends are free to weigh in on his decor sense.)

A smidge OT, but I watched the documentary about ice skater John Curry last night. I'm not really a fan of ice skating, but I knew he was openly gay and had died of AIDS and had done some Broadway, so I checked it out. The doc itself was somewhat pedestrian, and I felt like they didn't really delve into who he was (or were unable to make it interesting, so they didn't bother), but there is a treasure trove of rare performance footage that is breathtaking. He really was a one of a kind.

They had a good deal of footage from his ice show at the Minskoff in the late 70s, but nothing (and no mention of) his performance in the 1980 revival of Brigadoon.

It's on Hoopla for free if anyone is interested. Well worth the watch for the archival footage alone.

So now we're going to cancel The Book of Mormon? A show that employs a large number of actors of color, gonna get shut down by the woke-squad. Oh the irony. This is almost as good as Cynthia Erivo getting The Great Comet shut down, a show that employed one of the most diverse casts on Broadway at the time.

Quick question for theatre-lovers this St. Paddy's Day:

Is Finian's Rainbow the only Irish-themed musical? I can't think of any others set in Ireland, with Irish characters, or even featuring Irish music or themes.

(And don't anyone dare suggest "Brigadoon.")

r280 "Juno."

A couple of years ago I saw an opera in Dublin about the potato famine. Does that count?

Donnybrook

Three Wishes for Jamie

Once

Ahh!

Thanks, musical theatre brethren!

The Pirate Queen

Crying Game - The Musical.

Kelly - for one performance

A Man of No Importance

Kathleen Chalfant is playing a nun in a new TV series.

Arthur Sullivan was working on an operetta called The Emerald Isle when he died. The score was completed by Edward German.

Does anyone have the video of "I Wouldn't Bet One Penny" with the great Susan Johnson and Eddie Foy from "Donnybrook". I can only find the audio -- the video is great with the fabulous voice of Johnson and the wonderful show biz moves of Foy. Happy St. Patrick's Day!

Has anyone mentioned that Shakespeare in the Park is re-opening at the Delacorte on July 5? De Blasio was at the presser to announce it yesterday. Details like audience capacity and what to do with the lines in the park have yet to be worked out. The first show will be "Merry Wives," a contemporary adaptation of The Merry Wives of Windsor. I think this is great news.

Glimmerglass Opera is building an outdoor stage on their ginormous lawn. This is really smart. I'm surprised I'm not hearing about more summer companies like Williamstown doing the same.

I love that the Delacorte is reopening.

I sorta wish they were planning something more offbeat and ambitious than MERRY WIVES, but whatever. I'll be there (in my mask).

R232 Pretty much exclusively into black guys, apparently

[quote]I love that the Delacorte is reopening. I sorta wish they were planning something more offbeat and ambitious than MERRY WIVES....

It sounds like it's going to be a very loose, modern adaptation of the play and will feature an all-black or primarily black cast, which I guess is de rigueur for any show at the Delacorte going forward.

[quote]If Parker and Stone acquiesced then they’d be no better than the things they parody in South Park.

They already capitulated on showing the Prophet Muhammad in an episode that showed Jesus pooping on George W. Bush. They're posers.

[quote]Is Finian's Rainbow the only Irish-themed musical? I can't think of any others set in Ireland, with Irish characters, or even featuring Irish music or themes.

Not unless movie musicals count.

Sorry if this has been mentioned, but LCT is streaming Chris Durang's 2012 “Vanya and Sonia and Masha and Spike" (Tony for Best Play) starring David Hyde Pierce/Sigourney Weaver/Kristine Nielsen, among others. It's free, starts tomorrow, runs through early April.

[quote] A couple of years ago I saw an opera in Dublin about the potato famine. Does that count?

Can you remember any of the music?

I sat through two different productions of Vanya, Sonia in LA and SD in the space of four months. It was excruciating.

[Quote] the documentary about ice skater John Curry

Was Alan Bates mentioned?

[Quote] Kathleen Chalfant is playing a nun in a new TV series.

Kathleen Chalfant, who's her Mother Superior?

R303 You have my sympathies!!

The idea that Slave Play is going to win the Tony for Best Play is farcical yet still possible considering how the cards have fallen this past year.

I know a lot of Tony voters, but I don't know a single one who voted for the show. And why would they?

Jeremy O. Harris is a great and welcome personality on the scene, but that does not a great dramatist make. Not even a good one. And in this case, Harris is a shockingly mediocre one.

At the 2019 Drama Desk Awards, Slave Play received a total of two nominations: for lighting design and for fight choreography. It won the latter.

At the 2019 Outer Critics Circle Awards, Slave Play wasn't even nominated for Best Off-Broadway Play. Harris was nominated for the John Gassner Award but lost to the writers of The Lifespan of a Fact.

At the 2019 Lucille Lortel Awards, Slave Play was nominated for Best Play but lost to Pass Over. Ato Blankson-Wood was nominated for Outstanding Featured Actor but lost to Gabriel Ebert of Pass Over.

At the 2019 New York Drama Critics' Circle Awards, with seventeen drama critics nominating three plays each on a preferential ballot, Slave Play got only a single mention, and that was from Christopher Kelly.

The notion that this play suddenly became ALL THAT when it transferred to Broadway is absurd, especially considering that it wasn't even that admired Off-Broadway in its initial run. And unlike Hadestown, which could be used as an example of a show that did make more of a fuss once it went uptown, Slave Play wasn't massively reconsidered in the transfer either.

I went to the closing night of Slave Play on Broadway. The excitement was palpable at the start, but once the show actually began you could actually feel the energy dissipating slowly but definitely in the audience as the hype came nowhere near the actual content. The actors were all game, and Harris has an exciting concept and some interesting, provocative ideas, but nothing was fully developed, especially the two therapists who only made the show more exasperating and exhausting.

What a disappointing work. If it wins the Best Play Tony, it'll be for all the worst reasons. It's not the worst nominee of the five (that dubious distinction goes to the ghastly Grand Horizons), but it should not even be a contender. But in a shortened season in which practically everything that opened got nominated, that's where we are.

I'd like it to win, simply to annoy some of you.

[quote]Jeremy O. Harris is a great and welcome personality on the scene

Is he though?

Harris was insufferable on Nico Tortorella's podcast. And that podcast is hosted by Nico Tortorella.

I want Jeremy O'Harris to lose so he can have a sullen fit and then someone can say this to him:

" I was rooting for you, we were all rooting for you! How dare you! Learn something from this! When you go to bed at night, you lay there and you take responsibility for yourself, because nobody’s going to take responsibility for you. You rolling your eyes and you act like it’s because you’ve heard it all before—you’ve heard it all before—you don’t know where the hell I come from, you have no idea what I’ve been through. But I’m not a victim; I grow from it and I learn. Take responsibility for yourself."

Harris might prefer to lose. Think of the thinkpieces!

[quote] Was Alan Bates mentioned?

He wasn't. I was wondering if they would. Two ex-lovers were mentioned, a man named Heinz, who was also interviewed, and a guy named Ron who was in Curry's performing company (and who no one seemed to have anything good to say about) who was only discussed, and it was not mentioned if he was still alive or not.

There's a long thread on ATC about whether Sondheim likes some wet ass pussy. Guess it's slow over there, too.

I shudder at the memory.

For R281 - Celia's lovely here.

Is that clip of Susan Johnson singing "Almost Like Being In Love" hiding somewhere on YouTube?

hear hear r307 but that crappy play didn't get those nominations or awards because racism

r301 here is the only reason to see the play, and not reason enough

r307, all of those awards and nominations you list re SLAVE PLAY are from waaaaaaaay back in 2019. It's 2021 now, and some things have changed.

It's a new world, Golde.

R294-MERRY WIVES won't be the first show at the Delacorte this summer, it's the only show, running almost 2 months.

Second part of the oral history of Company closing down. They don't seem like a particularly pleasant cast - quite a few of them showing off about how much money they've been able to make over lockdown and so on. Odd tone to take. It's especially bad as some of the other cast members talk about how much they're struggling.

Kyle Dean Massey comes off the worst. Apparently he and his husband own an IVF company? And the "Broadway show was kind of already a side thing" - I'm sure his co-workers are so pleased to hear him be so dismissive of it. Hopefully he's recast.

And Patti sounds like she's done with theatre, but probably just her being a drama queen, as later on she talks about them all reuniting. I guess it really depends if the OK Boomer sitcom is picked up or not.

Do the COMPANY articles offer any assurance that this revival will ever open?

I have a strong feeling in my gut it will not. Whatever initial curiosity/novelty this gender-crossed revival had has fizzled. So now it's just another revival of another much-revived Sondheim show.

Before the pandemic, I was much more psyched about the ASSASSINS revival off-Bway, and I still feel that way.

Hasn’t Kyle Dean Massey been spending much of the shut down in Palm Springs? I mean, we’ve seen some of the videos.

[quote]I sat through two different productions of Vanya, Sonia in LA and SD in the space of four months. It was excruciating.

The play is quite hilarious and wonderful when it's well done, so maybe you saw two bad productions, or maybe you (and R306) just don't respond to Durang's brand of humor.

[quote]The notion that this play suddenly became ALL THAT when it transferred to Broadway is absurd, especially considering that it wasn't even that admired Off-Broadway in its initial run

Thanks for your thoughts, but it's amazing to me that you wrote so much on this subject without mentioning one of the two main reasons why SLAVE PLAY will probably win the Best Play Tony: lack of competition, When the show was up for awards by the Drama Desk, etc., the field of competition was far larger and tougher, but because of the pandemic, its ONE serious competitor for the Tonys is THE INHERITANCE, which was nowhere near as well received as it had been in London.

This reason PLUS, of course the BLM and "diversity in theater" movements, practically guarantee that SLAVE PLAY will win the Tony.

Even though SLAVE PLAY is unwatchable.

[quote] Thanks for your thoughts, but it's amazing to me that you wrote so much on this subject without mentioning one of the two main reasons why SLAVE PLAY will probably win the Best Play Tony: lack of competition,

r326 good point. Everyone always forgets that these awards are relative to the season they're in. The awards are not for Good Play but Best Play of the Year—in this instance, Best Play in a Decidedly Mediocre But Belatedly "Woke" Year.

r322, In Vitro Fertilization company??

With Kyle Dean and his hubbie's sperm?

Lenk was not going to get any better in COMPANY. She's an odd bird.

She's a doll, r330!

So now the lunatics are going to run the asylum? It's a very slippery slope, and will open the floodgates, mark my words. What's to prevent other disgruntled, ax-grinding actors to demand arbitrary changes in the script because they don't like the plot, or a turn of phrase, or the character's behavior? Where's the Dramatists Guild in all this?

If the "woke-sters" get their way, the only thing left of civilization and culture will be a pile of smoldering rubble.

There should have been someone like that in the cast of Moose Murders!

[quote]Everyone always forgets that these awards are relative to the season they're in.

I wouldn't say that "everyone always" forgets this, but it's amazing how many people seem to forget it, and how often. Really, what the hell is the point of discussing the upcoming Tony Awards without even mentioning that the field of competitors is MUCH smaller than it would have been if there had been no pandemic? Answer: No point whatsoever.

Happy birthday to Broadway's own John Kander! 94 years young today.

Wonderful composer. Frequently underrated and underappreciated. Out and proud gay man. And by all reports, a genuinely nice guy.

One of the serious issues I had with the London COMPANY was that most of the couples, especially the men in those couples, never for a moment seemed like they could be close friends of Rosalie Craig, who played Bobbi. She came off as sophisticated and urban and they, with the exception of Jonathan Bailey and his stage husband, all seemed dowdy and very suburban. And I include Long Island fishwife Patti LuPone who brought NO sophistication to the role of Joanne. It really made me think that Marianne Elliott must have a very sad perception of what modern Manhattanites are like. The three male suitors were attractive but all of them came off as gay men.

I also had issues with the sets which looked like cold grey concrete boxes, I suppose, the British designer's notion of what Manhattan apartments look like, but totally missing the mark if you've ever lived in NY.

Yes, r336! The costumes and sets - which didn't have to be realistic - seemed to have nothing to do with NYC at any time. And no one seemed like a New Yorker, except perhaps Lenk, who hadn't yet found her character, or any character for that matter.

Yes, r335...

[quote] The play is quite hilarious and wonderful when it's well done, so maybe you saw two bad productions, or maybe you (and [R306]) just don't respond to Durang's brand of humor.

It was more the productions than the play (though I don't really consider myself a wild Durang fan, but I don't dislike him or think he's untalented). The one at the Taper was directed by David Hyde Pierce, but Mark Blum played his role, and Christine Ebersole stepped in for Sigourney Weaver. I've never liked Mark Blum as an actor, and Ebersole felt very miscast. Coupled with the direction, which was so-so, I didn't hate it, but I wasn't terribly taken with the whole thing.

Then a few months later, the show played The Old Globe and a friend of mine was in the cast, so I drove down to see the production and hang out with my friend, who lives in NYC and I rarely get to see. This production was very poorly directed, and the cast, while all professionals who had decent careers in theater, all felt like they were giving understudy performances. My guess is the production was hastily put together and/or underrehearsed. Everyone knew what they were doing, but they didn't seem to really have a grasp on their characters. And because I'd seen most of these actors elsewhere (including, obviously, my friend), I knew they were capable of better work.

As you say, Durang has a particular brand of humor, and if you don't know how to play it, or direct it, or you haven't worked through it enough to get it down, then the whole evening is going to be a complete bust. And it was.

But I'm good. I've had my fill of VSMS.

R323 Well they had pandemic insurance and got a good payout, so there's no financial reason why they won't be back, and Marianne Elliot seems to be planning to bring it back.

Mark Blum was one of theater’s first Covid casualties

A friend who worked on COMPANY told me that they've all been told the show will hope to go back to previewing in September.

I rather wish I had seen Sean Young do the Sigourney Weaver role when she did it (I think on Long Island) a few years ago. I bet she was really good, as she was very funny in some comedies like "Young Doctors In Love".

R329 Yes, that kind of IVF! Though given they said they started the company because of how bad the experience was when they went through it trying for a kid, and given the fact they're still childless, I'm not sure how good their sperm or their company actually is.

R352, I wonder how that will fit Patti’s schedule on her new series? Plus the fact she seems not to want to go back on the stage.

The lack of a decent set would cripple COMPANY. The Boris Aronson set was one of the major characters of the original production.

Replace Patti with Christine Ebersole or Donna Murphy or any number of women of a certain age and you've got a COMPANY.

I don’t think either one of those has the same name value as Patti in her Olivier-winning performance.

Aronson's sets tended to do that, r346.

She'd be miscast, but if you want name value ... Bernadette IS Joanne.

Who is the shithead who already started a 415 thread?

I have a bad feeling about that HBO pilot. I'm going to guess Patti will be free if Company does re-open.

If the pilot is filmed this spring or summer, it could easily take at least 6 months before it's picked up. Or, of course, it may not get picked up.

Hmmm. Megan Mullaly is headlining an Anything Goes revival in London. Feels... off.

Re Book of Mormon: Satire is dead these days because SJWs lack critical thinking skills and think in black-and-white terms; they take everything literally. In general, woke culture is terrible for the arts (and artists) because SJWs have no respect for tradition and advocate censorship. I can't wait until the political pendulum swings back toward the center and more rational people are in charge again.

R352 It's important to make the distinction that this is an HBO Max sitcom. So standards will be much, much lower.

[quote]Re Book of Mormon: Satire is dead these days because SJWs lack critical thinking skills and think in black-and-white terms; they take everything literally.

Agreed 100 percent, and here's the supreme irony: A major point of THE BOOK OF MORMON is that the Mormons view religion take religious stories and parables very literally, whereas the Ugandans understand them as metaphor. One of the Ugandans actually comes right out and says that, so there can be no misunderstanding of what the point is supposed to be.

R339 Vanya and Sonia and Masha and Spike is a bit underwhelming. I saw an ok professional production in Seattle and it was "fine". It's not up to Durang at his anarchic best in the 80s but...

Even "Classic Durang" isn't necessarily aging that well.

Is Mulally's name mud in New York after that Patton Oswalt business?

Mullally is not the most stable ... bizarre that of all the things she's turned down, she would do a 60+ Reno Sweeney ... in London ... at the tail end of a pandemic

The queens go crazy for Patti who sounds great but it’s a ridiculous wig and Joanne isn’t 70+

Elaine was 45.

Isn't Katrina Lenk about that age?

Dorothy Hammill's wedge does not suit a 72 year old Patti LuPone.

Patti refused the hair person's offer of a "Cousin It."

At the end of the day, the SJWs are just humorless scolds looking to flex whatever power they have.

Dorothy Hammill's wedge does not suit anybody.

Megan Mullally has a talent on the small screen, but has she ever demonstrated that she has the onstage power to do the kind of star turn that Reno Sweeney requires? And don't tell me she was a huge wow in How to Succeed.

Mullally is best in small doses. She is not a lead.

She's a second banana.

It's an Ethel Merman part...

I'm a bit skeptical about even the best-intentioned English revivals of classic American musicals. They love our musicals but I'm never convinced they understand the humor, the energy, and the effortless, joyous transition from speaking to song and dance that is required. I didn't love Imelda's GYPSY (though I understood what she was trying to do) and thought their 42nd STREET was mostly grotesque.

So I don't have a lot of confidence in ANYTHING GOES, particularly with a 60-something Megan Mullally as Reno.

but r372 America's Kathleen Marshall is directing, "reimagining" (or something like that) her Tony winning production, and Mullally is American

They did "Follies" better than any Broadway revival.

It was kind of strange seeing Patton Oswalt playing scenes opposite Megan on the updated "Will & Grace", though I suppose it helped by their characters having a contentious relationship. Oswalt is a very good actor, don't know what her problem was with him in that play years ago that basically got it shutdown.

Point taken, R373. But Mullally is still miscast and frankly, too old.

Kathleen Marshall directing does NOT restore my confidence.

How many Renos have been appropriately cast? The original Broadway was Merman. The original London was a slinky French woman. Patti LuPone was replaced by Leslie Uggams...

[quote]They did "Follies" better than any Broadway revival.

But the Roundabout Broadway revival was sabotaged by an insufficient budget (also, it had a Brit director), and the most recent revival was hampered by an untalented American director.

[quote]Kathleen Marshall directing does NOT restore my confidence.

KM, also known as "the far less talented of the Marshall siblings." Gotta say, FWIW, I'm honestly surprised that so many people are so loudly objecting to MM playing Reno on the grounds of her age. I'm the first person to criticize when older performers are cast as young characters if I feel the youth of the character is really important to the plot -- for example, Nellie Forbush in SOUTH PACIFIC. But in the case of Reno Sweeney, I don't get the impression that the role was ever conceived as an ingenue. I think we're supposed to think Reno has been around for awhile, long enough to have become famous as a nightclub singer and THEN transitioned to becoming an evangelist. So, to me, if Reno reads onstage as middle-aged -- which I imagine MM still does -- that's not a problem. In fact, I was one of those who felt that Sutton Foster came across as a bit too youthful in the role, regardless of her actual age.

[Quote] But the Roundabout Broadway revival was sabotaged by an insufficient budget (also, it had a Brit director), and the most recent revival was hampered by an untalented American director.

The leading lady bumping into chorus boys was all down to an American.

Megan seems strange casting in that her most famous character, Karen Walker's voice is mainly in head voice, while Reno calls for a chesty belter's voice.

^ agreed.

I also don't think Mullally is a lead, even in a broad comic part. As someone said upthread, she's best in small doses.

There's also the whole issue of her being a complete box of crazy with a history of picking fights with colleagues.

I think Megan will be great at that part. It's a pretty pliable part in terms of style and tone (Ethel Merman, Patti LuPone, Mitzi Gaynor, Leslie Uggams, Sutton Foster, Stephanie J. Block)...Ultimately, Reno is kind of a yearning shit disturber, and Mullaly can handle that.

This is all rather chesty.

[quote] KM, also known as "the far less talented of the Marshall siblings."

Kathleen is not the one who actually sent Miss Hannigan to the nuthouse instead of just singing about it.

[Quote] There's also the whole issue of her being a complete box of crazy

How long was Betty Lynn's stage career?

We could use a chuckle right now, r379.

[quote]Megan seems strange casting in that her most famous character, Karen Walker's voice is mainly in head voice.

First of all, I don't the voice Megan used as Karen Walker could accurately be described as "head voice" at all. And anyway, she has used other voices for other characters/performances. So I'm not sure what your point is, and I suspect you don't know what you talking about.

Danner and Polly Bergen were joined at the hip during that production. r386. They were like two hilarious naughty little girls.

Megan is an Erma not a Reno. Buddy Beware is perfectly suited to her schtick.

Why thank you r389!

R389=another fool who thinks actors can ONLY play roles very similar to those they've played before.

Most of the idiots here would say that Ethel Merman was best in small doses.

Vanya and Sasha And Marsha and Spike.

Yup, Bobby Goldman got the production she deserved with that Roundabout monstrosity at R386. It's actually worse than I remembered.

Has anyone here ordered flowers from Robbie Fairchild?

Holy Christ, that Danner clip is worse than everything I've heard about it for the past 20 years.

Two things I've never understood the appeal of-

1- The Story of Lucy and Jessie. It's a terrible song and it tells us nothing we don't already know at that point about Phyllis and Sally. I've never seen it performed well.

2- Blythe Danner. She's a lousy actress and incredibly unappealing. Whenever I hear she's in something, I know I'm in for a bad time.

I think that 2001 Roundabout "Follies" comes off a little better here---

Ethel Merman was twenty-five years old when ANYTHING GOES opened on Broadway.

Merman was NEVER 25 years old

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1998, a revival of "Cabaret" opened at the Kit Kat Klub, now known as Studio 54.

Michael Ball’s Hairspray revival opens in London in June 22nd-with social distancing for the first four weeks. It runs until September 29th.

[quote] THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1998, a revival of "Cabaret" opened at the Kit Kat Klub, now known as Studio 54.

Well, they got that wrong. It opened this day in 1998 at what was Henry Miller's Theatre on 43rd Street, which was renamed the Kit Kat Klub for the occasion. The revival played there for a few months until a crane fell on the theatre and Roundabout moved the show to Studio 54. It was actually a lot better at Henry Miller's. The intimacy helped a lot. Henry Miller's would later house Urinetown until the theatre was demolished, save for the facade and a few interior elements. A modern shitbox was built in its place.

[quote] Ethel Merman was twenty-five years old when ANYTHING GOES opened on Broadway.

Merman was born in Jan 1908. Anything Goes opened Nov 21, 1934. Merman was 26, and turned 27 a couple of months later.

Ten months later.

And 26 is a lot more appropriate than 62.

[Quote] The Story of Lucy and Jessie. It's a terrible song and it tells us nothing we don't already know at that point about Phyllis and Sally.

Lucy and Jessie is about Phyllis and Phyllis.

[quote]Blythe Danner. She's a lousy actress and incredibly unappealing. Whenever I hear she's in something, I know I'm in for a bad time.

Hail to thee, Blythe Danner--Streep thou never wert.

We discussed Megan/Reno back in February.

R406 is correct about the meaning of the song. "The Story of L& J" is incredibly problematic for a lot of first-time listeners, though, who mistakenly assume it's about Phyllis and Sally and their rivalry.

It's not a very good theatre song, but at least it's preferable to all of the alt versions Sondheim created over the years. "Ah But Underneath" is among the worst music he's ever composed, IMHO.

And if the actress playing Phyllis moves well in her spangly dress and doesn't collide with the chorus boys, no one cares much anyway.

Poor Natasha and Mary Louise Wilson never got to finish out their runs. By the time the show reopened at Studio 54 Jennifer Jason Leigh and Blair Brown, who had already been hired as replacements, took over.

But r410, Natasha and Mary Louise left CABARET by their choice so why "poor?"

[quote] Ten months later.

Two months. The show opened in Nov 1934, and two months later, in January 1935, Ethel had her 27th birthday.

Ever since seeing Ann Miller play Reno, I've always thought of that role perfectly tailored for an older woman.

R411, R410 is referring to Natasha's early death, not her departure from the play.

R414, are you on drugs?

r414, Natasha left Cabaret long before her death.

Natasha and ML still had a few weeks left in their run. JJL and Blair were in rehearsals. Then the crane accident happened and the show shut down for several weeks before reopening at Studio 54. At that point it didn’t make sense to bring Natasha back. Hence poor Natasha and Mary Louise who didn’t get to finish out their run and give an official final performance.

[quote]The Story of Lucy and Jessie. It's a terrible song and it tells us nothing we don't already know at that point about Phyllis and Sally

It's not supposed to tell you anything about Sally. The song is about the two different aspects of Phyllis that she can't merge together in her personality.

My god how does this always come back to Follies

[quote] It's not supposed to tell you anything about Sally. The song is about the two different aspects of Phyllis that she can't merge together in her personality.

See. That's how bad it is.

[quote]My god how does this always come back to Follies

All roads lead to Follies and Follies is where all roads end.

I don't know why the poster here loathes "Ah! But Underneath." At the very least, it's clear in its meaning. And Phyllis' doubts that there is anything to her ties nicely into both Ben's feelings of inadequacy and their ackowledgment that Phyllis is actually pretty terrific at the play's end.

I wouldn't mind seeing a production that used "Uptown/Downtown" even if the meaning of the song is not terribly poignant ("I'm part of high society but boy, do I miss that low life.")

Did the crane accident cause poor Mary Louise Wilson to forget to do an accent?

The significance and meaning of all the Loveland songs is complicated by the fact that they need to sound like standalone pastiches (from a period where musical theatre songs didn't necessarily need to advance the narrative), they're songs that don't actually contribute anything to the actual narrative, they're sung by characters who are not themselves in that sequence, while also taking place in a section of the show that is explicitly self-reflexive and conceptually different to anything else up to that point.

I think 'Ah, but Underneath' works dramatically as a contrived pastiche number (as does 'Make the Most of your Music'). But 'The Story of Lucy and Jessie' is a much better song.

Follies is The Road You Always Take.

In the original production, when she sang "which are not their real names," Alexis Smith pointed very clearly at herself, erasing any confusion she's talking about two different people. I know it has been posted before, but even in grainy footage, the original makes a nice palate cleanser after those poor boys lugging Blythe Danner's carcass around the stage.

From "Uptown, Downtown," one of the alt songs for "Lucy and Jessie"

She sits at the Ritz with her splits of Mumms

And starts to pine for a stine with her Village chums

But with the schlitz in her mitts down in Fitzroy's Bar

She thinks of the Ritz, so it's so schizo

Bennett’s routine for Lucy/Jessie is sublime. Unforced, elating, focused; everything hacks like Rob Ashford can’t (or won’t) achieve.

Lucy and Jessie's success was as a number. Lyrically, it's hard for audiences to digest.

Bennett makes Smith look like an amazing dancer when she isn’t really doing anything challenging. He also shapes the choreography to the dance arrangements, a lost art.

R427, that should be "pine for a stein."

That is "unforced"? Oh, Mary!

Hyphenated Harriet wouldn't be the worst drag name ...

Smith is quite electric in that number, and she is moving about quite energetically, but yes, having all the dancers face upstage so Smith's is the only face you see in that number highlights her enormously, so her performance seems even more outstanding.

R430, dance arrangements in original productions are created with the choreographer and on the choreography. Later productions which use the original dance arrangements have the problem of creating new choreography for the existing arrangements which is why new dance arrangements are sometimes created for revivals.

I almost wish Smith hadn't done the number on the Tonys. The staging is woeful, almost as bad as the "Follies with ladders" that Dorothy "Now Down the Octave" Collins did in '77.

Rigg just doesn't have the vocals for the song. Also, she loses any sex appeal when she's trodding the stage in her stocking'd feet.

Dee makes a more persuasive case...

But the song was written for Rigg. And poor Dee Hoty. She looks like Tony Sheldon's twin.

Thank you for sharing, Mr. Simon.

Despite the fact that we complained about this thread title, it is becoming more apt with each post.

[quote] [R430], dance arrangements in original productions are created with the choreographer and on the choreography. Later productions which use the original dance arrangements have the problem of creating new choreography for the existing arrangements which is why new dance arrangements are sometimes created for revivals.

But new shows quite often have a new dance arranger/dance arrangements, but even so, you get these disconnected, impersonal counts of eight that could be choreographed to anything. The way Champion, Fosse, Bennett, Tune etc. would choreograph to the mood, build and syncopation of the arrangement seems like it's gone and forgotten.

[quote]Despite the fact that we complained about this thread title, it is becoming more apt with each post.

Ha! What did you expect? I know: Oh, Mary, don't ask!

Hoty is better than Rigg in the number at R438.

But the song still sucks.

It brings to mind Sheldon Harnick's comment to William Goldman about "washing garbage."

Didn't Bennett request a new song for Phyllis in the Loveland section?

[Quote] Hoty is better than Rigg in the number at [R438].

The audience doesn't seem to think so.

R442, I agree with what you wrote about current choreographers but don't new shows always (not quite often) have new dance arrangers/dance arrangements? Unless a show like TINA used an existing arrangement from Tina Turner's own career.

I've never understood why anyone has a problem with "Lucy and Jessie." I think the meaning is clear, and even if it's not to some people (like the poor slob in this thread who thought the song referred to Phyllis and Sally), then two or three words of explanation should suffice. And yes, some of the lyrics may be a little hard to get on first hearing, but not excessively so -- and if that's a problem, you can listen to the song on the cast album, or look up the lyrics online and read them. Not a lot of hard work involved.

Dee Hoty was great in "Ah, But Underneath" and made the best possible case for the song, but I still don't like it.

Please stop.

[Quote] if that's a problem, you can listen to the song on the cast album, or look up the lyrics online and read them

You can't expect an audience - the kind of audience that keeps a show running - to be dominated by the stereotypical show queen.

R447, yes I noted that some revivals get new dance arrangements. But it doesn’t make the choreography any better or more distinguished. I think of Kathleen Marshall’s “Too Darn Hot” or “Anything Goes.” They go on and on and ON and you think they are going to build to something and never do. Just a tepid simmer until they peter out.

R451, you originally wrote "new shows quite often have a new dance arranger/dance arrangements" and you must have meant "new revivals." That's why I misunderstood what you were saying.

[quote]Hoty is better than Rigg in the number

Oh, yeah? Well, let's see Hoty make some moves like these!

Oh yeah! You’re right. I meant revivals.

[quote]if that's a problem, you can listen to the song on the cast album, or look up the lyrics online and read them

Or Sondheim could distribute annotated index cards to live audiences. Or a handy glossary!

And yet another illustration how Sondheimites really are the death of musical theatre.

Another piece of effortless brilliance in the original staging of the number was the way costume designer Florence Klotz worked with Bennett so that the chorus backing up Alexis Smith looked to be all men in scarlet tails (matching Alexis' dress) but were actually composed of male and female ensemble dancers. As stated above, only seen from their backs.

Then, a super fast quick change offstage for just the female dancers where they removed their tail coats and trousers to be revealed in scarlet hot pants and white halter vests with the male dancers still in their Lucy/Jessie costumes, but all dancers seen now from the front. Creating a whole new look for John McMartin's number, Live, Laugh, Love.

R455, I hope you're just joking (in a very nasty way). The lyrics for "Lucy and Jessie" are nowhere near as difficult or inaccessible by an audience as you're making them out to be. I think the whole song contains one line that might go over the heads of the average audience member, "That's the sorrowful precis," and that line is admittedly harder to grasp because the syllables have to be spat out very fast. But other than that, what do you find so difficult about the lyrics that you think "index cards" or a "glossary" are necessary? Please put up or shut up, and please be specific.

r455 - "—shaking my head"

I wondered what that rattling noise was.

Donna & Lucy & Jessie

Why couldn’t Sondheim have used the melody for “Can That Boy Foxtrot?,” stick new lyrics on it and made that the replacement for “Lucy and Jessie”?

"Can That Girl Hold a Soiree?"

In living color

The lyrics couldn't have been that impenetrable. "Lucy wants to be Jessie and Jessie Lucy, you see..." gets an audible laugh from the audience on the bootleg audio of the original production above.

The fact that Smith has to point to herself to signal that she is both Lucy & Jessie points to the problem of the lyrics.

[quote]The fact that Smith has to point to herself to signal that she is both Lucy & Jessie points to the problem of the lyrics.

But do you really think it's a BIG problem? So what if maybe some audience members don't immediately realize that Phyllis is singing about herself, and have to think about it for a bit. Would that confuse the audience so much that it would totally take them out of the number and the show? I don't think so.

If you have to think about a lyric, you will miss subsequent lyrics because you won't be active listening to them. I don't hate "Lucy and Jessie" but it isn't entirely successful.

[quote]I don't hate "Lucy and Jessie" but it isn't entirely successful.

It would seem that Sondheim agrees with you, as he replaced the number for the London revisal. And even I would agree with you that the number isn't ENTIRELY successful. But I think what's great about it outbalances what's wrong with it, and I don't agree that the lack of complete clarity in the lyric is anywhere near as big a flaw as you think it is.

Well, we can probably all agree about the power of Bennett's staging. Compare Smith to genuine dancer Juliet Prowse in the Long Beach production. Prowse's high kicks are to little effect. (Prowse isn't helped by the pants in which she's been costumed - "let's not show off her legs!").

"Lucy and Jessie" was replaced in London because Diana Rigg was not a dancer not because Sondheim didn't think the "Lucy and Jessie" worked.

That is bullshit. And Dee Hoty ain't no dancer.

*Jan Maxwell

[quote]"Lucy and Jessie" was replaced in London because Diana Rigg was not a dancer not because Sondheim didn't think the "Lucy and Jessie" worked.

Nonsense. If that were the reason, they could have just toned down the choreography in the dance section, but they still could have kept the whole first part of the song with the original lyrics. So thanks, but no thanks.

Diana used to stand in the wings to watch Dot Gray do her number every night.

From Sondheim's book, FINISHING THE HAT: "In 1987, Cameron Mackintosh produced a revival of FOLLIES in London. He asked for some changes to the script and score. ....although I had been happy with the show the way it was, I saw no reason not to try new things, knowing we could always revert to the original (which eventually we did)." "Ah, But Underneath" has proven useful as a substitute for "The Story of Lucy and Jessie" in subsequent productions where the woman who plays Phyllis is more a singer than a dancer."

"Phyllis" is usually not much of a singer or a dancer.

I suppose Blythe Danner learned to bump into chorus boys in dance class. It's a Dannerism.

[quote]Or Sondheim could distribute annotated index cards to live audiences. Or a handy glossary!

How about supertitles? They could say, "What Sondheim really meant here is ... "

Does Donna Murphy fuck up the lyrics in her version? A couple of her lines sounded off.

Sondheim has always suffered from the "you need to see it/listen to it more than once to get it" syndrome. While his earliest shows weren't that bad (think FORUM and COMPANY), with FOLLIES and NIGHT MUSIC, it takes more than one viewing to really get the brilliance of what he is attempting. Lyrically, FOLLIES is challenging on the first go-round, while musically, NIGHT MUSIC, with its disguised 3/4 time and melodic wanderings, is not easy to absorb (think SOON/NOW/LATER, LIAISONS). I've always said that Sondheim suffers from not knowing how to end a song (EPIPHANY) or make it palatable on the first hearing (I WISH I COULD FORGET YOU). But maybe that's part of his brilliance - to not settle for easily digested.

I love you Billy Boy.

Good lord, if Sondheim feels that Lucy and Jessie is for actresses who are better dancers, then they should have replaced it with Ah, But Underneath for both Danner and Maxwell.

[quote] where the woman who plays Phyllis is more a singer than a dancer."

Then poor Blythe would have been fucked either way.

R426 - I'd never seen this before. Do we know the source? I mean, it appears to be a soundboard recording combined with video of the performance from a variety of angles. Did eldergays make video bootlegs fifty years ago?? Or was this some kind of rehearsal or archival footage the producers captured?

Either way, 100% agreed with the comments... the orchestra's on fire (Pauly G?) and the Bennett staging expertly frames and accentuates Alexis.

Over the last few years, quite a bit of footage of the original production of Follies has appeared. It's assembled from a number of different sources from Broadway and from the start of the national tour. It appears to be 8mm silent footage that was synched up to one of the soundboard audios. If you search YouTube, you can find the Prologue, the Montage, quite a few individual numbers and even the transition into "Loveland," linked below. Harold Hastings was the conductor for the original production. You can tell it's not Gemignani. The orchestra sounds invested in what they are playing.

Teeny Todd

Thanks, R484. Was that a dig at Pauly G? I always got the impression that he (plus, of course Jonny Tunes'ick) were integral to that classic Sondheim sound of the 70s. Admittedly, outside of TV concerts or bootlegs, I've never heard him conduct live.

Tunick's conducting can be heard on the Paper Mill Follies recording. Rather square.

R487 - was referring to Tunick's orchestrations (not conducting) in his role in shaping that "Sondheim sound"

[quote] I think of Kathleen Marshall’s “Too Darn Hot” or “Anything Goes.” They go on and on and ON and you think they are going to build to something and never do.

Yes r451 you nailed it. Her "Anything Goes" from the Tonys is on YouTube and is interminable because [italic]it does not build[/italic]. Compare it to Stro's "I Got Rhythm" from [italic]Crazy for You[/italic] and you can see the difference vividly. Stro at her best knows when to break out little specialties and then bring back the ensemble for something bigger.

Plus, with Stro you can always count on a lot of props, if that's your thing.

[quote] Was that a dig at Pauly G?

Yeah, he was great once upon a time. But he became a bit of a metronome, just marking time. Or conducting too fast because he just wants to get home.

I think one of the greatest production numbers ever that also shows what a genius Bennett was is "Step into the Bad SIde." If you can find the bootleg of the original production, you can see what has to be the perdect illustration of building a number looks like. When you think he's finished, the walkways rise and and builds some more. Astonishing.

r492 - Is this what you're referring to? It's so grainy it feels impossible to really get the full effect...

Was Bennett's original staging replicated in any later productions that might be better preserved?

[quote]Plus, with Stro you can always count on a lot of props, if that's your thing.

Oh, what a brilliant, extremely clever, highly original observation on your part! How many points do you think you deserve for that????!!!!!

Harsh, 494.

Unfortunately, r493, that's the best there is. It could never be replicated as that set was enormous and the cast was as well. What you can't really see to full effect is that there is a line of dancers that join in the action of the payoffs, and then, the bridge slowly rises to reveal 3 lines of dancers. But what you can see in the early parts of the dance, is how the coreography is so contained but perfect and beautiful, and actually moves the plot along. As I said...astonishing.

ACL may be his masterpiece but DG is his best work

The hydraulic floors were only in that original Broadway production and the national tour before it was simplified. I don't know that they were used again, because the version that came back to Broadway in 1987 and that was used for years after was Bennett's bus and truck version (where the cast moves the towers and staircase).

You can get a bit of the effect of the layers of 'payola' dancers in the Dreamgirls TV commercial, around the :39 second mark. Stay for the whole thing, because it's like the Citizen Kane of Broadway TV commercials.

That's because it wasn't a TV commercial, but made to show in movie theatres.

So this is the final nail of the coffin of [italic]Thoroughly Modern Millie[/italic] and maybe [italic]Miss Saigon[/italic]. Not theatre but the film of [italic]Breakfast at Tiffany's[/italic] will disappear too.

I will not miss Millie or Miss Saigon.

Stompin' at the Savoy...

The idea that "Millie" is racist has always been horseshit. The two Asian characters are fully developed and have their own stories. The "racist" label is because they are speaking their own language and some think that is racist. So stupid.

No r503 the "racist" label is because the Mrs Meers character does a "funny" fake Chinese accents and wears geisha-style yellow face.

A Follies story from a friend who worked on the show. Dolores had an accident, hurt her leg and was briefly confined to a wheelchair. Her understudy stepped in but every night she would step aside while Dolores was wheeled center stage, belted out I’m Still Here and was wheeled off. The audience went wild.

Yes, the stage Millie took what was already a problem and made it worse. The offensive Asian dragon lady stereotype is mitigated somewhat in the film because Bea Lillie is basically Bea Lillie with chopsticks in her hair. It's bad, but because it's so ridiculous and unbelievable, it's not in the same league as say Mickey Rooney as Mr. Yunioshi. The stage musical amped that up to 11 with grotesque make-up and costuming, and the character saying things like "Hoter Pliscirra." I remember that delighted the tourist behind me no end and I wanted to crawl under my seat. They also tried to garner laughs by mocking the sound of Chinese language, with Mrs. Meers' henchmen performing "Mammy" in Mandarin as "Muqin." And because it's been 20 years and I don't remember exactly, doesn't one of the henchmen end up with Trevor Graydon at the end? So a gay reveal is also played as a joke. That whole show can just fuck off.

Oh, whatever, r506...

[quote]The offensive Asian dragon lady stereotype is mitigated somewhat in the film because Bea Lillie is basically Bea Lillie with chopsticks in her hair. It's bad, but because it's so ridiculous and unbelievable, it's not in the same league as say Mickey Rooney as Mr. Yunioshi.

Well, also, Bea Lillie is not supposed to be playing an actual Asian person in that movie, as Rooney does in BREAKFAST AT TIFFANY'S. She's playing a comic villian old white woman who affects Asian costuming, etc. because she's in league with Asians who are trafficking in white slavery. If you want to argue that the very depiction of Asians as white slavers is offensive, obviously you're on much firmer ground, but Lillie in MILLIE is a completely different situation than Rooney in BAT.

There's really not much to explain the movie's Mrs. Meers. I don't dispute what you say, R508, but it's not like that character's motivation is explained at length, as they tried to do in the musical and with that (terrible) song "They Don't Know."

The problems of the stage version of "Millie" were supposedly to have been addressed by the Encores! mounting of a revised script with an Asian leading lady (Ashley Park). That was scheduled for May 2020 so of course it never happened. No telling if Encores! will pick it up again.

I don't know what they were planning at Encores but I don't know how an Asian Millie takes care of the Mrs Meers problem. God bless Harriet Harris, though. She was so accomplished at the comedy, she almost made it palatable.

[quote]There's really not much to explain the movie's Mrs. Meers. I don't dispute what you say, [R508], but it's not like that character's motivation is explained at length, as they tried to do in the musical and with that (terrible) song "They Don't Know."

I've always assumed her motivation in the movie is very simple: She's making a lot of money by helping provide young females to "white slavers." By the way, I've never really looked up "white slavery" to find out to what extent, if any, it actually existed, and to learn more about it if so. Maybe I'll do that right now :-)

[quote]I don't know what they were planning at Encores but I don't know how an Asian Millie takes care of the Mrs Meers problem. God bless Harriet Harris, though. She was so accomplished at the comedy, she almost made it palatable.

I don't know what they were planning, either, but the racial politics of the MILLIE stage musical were muddled to begin with -- not only the stuff with the Chinese, but even more so, the very strange way in which they made the Muzzy character African American. When I first heard about that change, it sounded intriguing, but I thought it meant of course they would rewrite the plot twist from the movie where Muzzy turns out to be the mother of both Miss Dorothy and Jimmy. But no........

Here’s 6 Dutch gals vying for the role of Maria in a forthcoming production of The Sound of Music (along with some too briefly glimpsed chorus boys) performing “Brand New Day” from The Wiz.

Quick, watch it before it gets pulled off in a few hours.

Didn't both Dixie Carter *and* Delta Burke play Mrs. Mears? What was that like?

[quote] I don't know what they were planning at Encores but I don't know how an Asian Millie takes care of the Mrs Meers problem.

It wasn't just casting an Asian Millie; the May 2020 Encores! script was intended to address the other issues as well. Of course I have no idea how well the revised script would have worked.

[quote]It wasn't just casting an Asian Millie; the May 2020 Encores! script was intended to address the other issues as well. Of course I have no idea how well the revised script would have worked.

Probably about as well as the original script worked, i.e., not well at all. Is TMM the Worst Best Musical winner in Tony history? A good argument can be made that it is.

Lady Gaga in a live TV production of Rags.

Just putting it out in the universe.

The universe has sufficient r517.

[quote]Is TMM the Worst Best Musical winner in Tony history?

Only up until "Once" took that title.

And Gentleman's Guide. And Memphis.

r516 is from the original cast of Urinetown...

Memphis definitely.

Once was lovely. Sing Street not so much.

You're forgetting "Big River" "Hallelujah Baby" and "Sunset Boulevard". Three turds in a fountain...

R523, you chose three musicals where there was limited (if any) competition. All three of those years saw a dearth of productions and fewer nominees or nominating every musical that opened to fill the category. In a normal year, none of those three likely would have won. (Well, maybe Sunset just because of the scope of it, but not a guarantee.)

So why DID Millie beat Urinetown when the latter won score and book and director?

Ashley Park has never been anything more than mediocre in anything I’ve seen her in.

Because Urinetown was a collegiate skit, filled with snark and "I'm smarter than you" point of view. It was fun for about 30 minutes and then it just became annoying.

Big River was like a combination of Gypsy and Oklahoma! and Show Boat compared to Millie or Memphis.

That planned Millie rewrite was a terrible idea for Encores. Rewriting a crap show to try to give it a second life? When did that become the mission of Encores?

sure r527 if you think so, but the voters obviously didn't agree if it got book, director and score.

[quote] Rewriting a crap show to try to give it a second life? When did that become the mission of Encores?

At this point we'd be lucky to get a revised "Millie." As Encores! announced some months back, we're getting "rethought," rewritten revivals of "The Tap Dance Kid" and "The Life." Billy Porter is re-doing "The Life," presumably with a transgender leading character. And following those gems, we get what the world needs now, a revival of "Into the Woods," perhaps with Billy Porter as the Witch.

I remember hearing that Billy wanted to audition for the witch in what ended up being the Vanessa Williams revival but they wouldn't see him.

[quote]Billy Porter is re-doing "The Life," presumably with a transgender leading character.

Which of the two leading female characters do we think they'll reconceive as trans? Sonia or Queen? Or both? I guess Sonia would make more sense.

From Cole Porter to Billy Porter. The decline of western civilization right there...

r534 There was an intermediate stop at Don Porter.

On the one hand, The Tap Dance Kid feels appropriate for Encores, since it is a pretty obscure show ... Anyone see the original production and have thoughts?

I assume the reason Millie won was because of touring. Wasn't the whole thing around that time about voting for the musical that would tour better and being able to tour with the imprimatur "BEST MUSICAL?" Urinetown was going to be a hard sell outside of big cities no matter what because of its title.

I'm probably one of the few DLers left here (and alive) who saw Hallelujah, Baby! and I remember just loving it. I must have been about 17. A really glamorous and funny production with some serious thought about BLM long before BLM. Leslie Uggams was dazzling and Lillian Hayman, as her mother, was hilarious. I still listen to the OBCR often. Great Jule Styne songs and brilliant orchestrations....that overture is one of the best ever.

And in regard to TMM at Encores, isn't one of its creators Jeanine Tesori one of the heads of Encores now?

R498 - thanks! I'd never seen that extended commercial for Dreamgirls -- it's so well made! And, yes, you DO seem to get some idea of the staging you were describing. God, the London production at R502 seems so sterile and soulless by comparison.

I know it will probably never happen, but it would be so cool if a producer mounted a Dreamgirls revival based upon the original staging.

If Jennifer Holiday would have been nominated in Featured Actress (which she probably should have been), then I think she would have bested Montevecchi, and Sheryl Lee Ralph would have easily won for Lead Actress since there was absolutely no other competition. And then Dreamgirls would have won all four acting awards.

I did, several times, r536. Great dancers, terrible costumes, painfully sincere book. Forgettable music. Hinton Battle was impressive.

The 1st kid was Alfonso Ribeiro, who later went on to Prince of Belair, creating the awkward Carlton dance. Takes a great dancer to look that bad. The other 2 were Savion Glover and Dulé Hill. Dulé was my favorite, and here he is performing a number from the show. There is discussion of how the ENCORES version might change

R541 - speaking of Dule Hill, the revue he starred in back in 2013, After Midnight, was easily one of the most joyous nights I've spent in the theatre. The musicians, dancers and singers? God, the amount of talent on that stage was amazing. So elegantly staged and designed, too. I wish it had been preserved for PBS or something else. Or at least that there were a decent bootleg of the whole show out there.

Dulé Hill and Savion performed on Bring on Da Noise, Bring on Da Funk. also, r542.. Dulé is a great guy. Sweet, funny, very professional.

My link is the same number you posted from After Midnight, but outdoors in freezing weather. I agree it's a pity that there doesn't seem to be any capture of it. I don't think even TOFT got it.

R543 - nice! There's also the Tonys performance. (It's such a shame Gladys Knight and Natalie Cole never got to do their After Midnight runs. I bet both of them would have been wonderful.)

Lovely, thank you!

Here's Dulé Hill in Stickfly.

Sondheim and ALW both share birthdays today (and always)... Sondheim is 91 and ALW is 73... who will be remembered most as decades/centuries go on? Not a contest, but an interesting conversation to posit. Will JCS be performed more than ITW? Will Phantom reign as the quintessential broadway musical? Will Follies be everyone’s choice in 2100? Lots of questions to consider.

r546 - they'll both be remembered. Lloyd Webber more for his commercial success. They also wished each other happy birthday last year!

Fantasia in "After Midnight"

[quote] My link is the same number you posted from After Midnight, but outdoors in freezing weather. I agree it's a pity that there doesn't seem to be any capture of it. I don't think even TOFT got it.

Just checked the catalog, and it appears that TOFT did record "After Midnight," with Patti LaBelle.

It is wonderful that ALW and Sondheim are totally convivial and respecting of each other, even doing tribute videos to each other as recently as last year. That’s old school class.

Whatever happened to (old school) class?

r538, I agree that the HALLELUJAH, BABY has a great, glittering cast album, but any notion that there is anything resembling "serious thought" in the book has escaped me.

I hate to stereotype or be into "trauma porn" or whatever they call it, but one of the characters in [italic]The Life[/italic] being trans doesn't not make sense. I don't know what it adds, but it doesn't seem inappropriate, at least.

The inanities of The Life were so manifold, I don't know what can be done to make it viable. The tone varied from deadly serious to cutesy-comic - from the Pamela Isaacs character getting beaten up and bloodied and then singing a he's-just-my-guy-type number to the cliches of Bellamy Young's girl-off-the-bus-who-is-not-as-innocent-as-she-seems role. The Hooker's Ball! A fat and thin whore in every color for the tired businessman! Sam Harris as a pimp! And right before the curtain, Lillias White saying something like "I'm not feeling so good" as an AIDS harbinger.

Michael Blakemore did what he could with it, and several cast members rose above the idiotic material, especially Lillias who turned "The Oldest Profession" into a showstopper. "My Body" is fun and I remember "Why Don't They Leave Us Alone" having a very fluid, cinematic staging that was impressive. Otherwise though, it's not worth an exhumation.

r552, just curious: have you ever seen HALLELUJAH, BABY!? Or are you basing your opinions on liner notes or hearsay?

The only reason that Encores is suddenly so "woke" is because of the DeBlasio administration's quota system for any organization that receives funding from the city. Museums and performing arts organizations that receive funding must now have a certain percentage of minorities as employees, board members, or cast members. I heard this from someone who works at Encores.

[quote]Dulé Hill and Savion performed on Bring on Da Noise, Bring on Da Funk. also, [R542]..

Do you have some sort of weird aversion to the preposition "in?"

Sorry, r557. It was a typo, and I wasn't wearing my glasses.

The "touring voters" rule the Tonys trope has been around for decades, and its false. There are about 600 voters and less than 10 percent are the road presenters. Riedel invented this idea and somehow it stuck. Not only does it assume that the road voters are a monolith, but also assumes their subscribers don't want anything edgy. The real powerhouse Tony voting block are The Wing voters.

thank you r559

[quote]The "touring voters" rule the Tonys trope has been around for decades, and its false. There are about 600 voters and less than 10 percent are the road presenters. Riedel invented this idea and somehow it stuck.

Another of his weird fictions. So happy we don't have to be subjected to his writing on a regular basis anymore.

Yes, r555, I saw HB in its pre-Broadway tryout in Boston. It may have improved greatly by the time it opened in New York, but none of the reviews suggested that it was anything but a series of well-intentioned cliches. A later revisal in NJ wasn't a success either. Being a panorama of Black American history by a handful of white people didn't help.

Was lipsyncing on the Tonys common back in the day, Eldergays? I thought that shit as saved for Top of the Pops.

R554 - it was kinda fun seeing the really big gal get down during the dance breaks

Agreed, r554. But the artwork was nice and simple.

The rumor of the day was that foot in the poster was a man's. One of the interns at the agency, as legend would have it.

Well, not a rumor, but the leg in the OH! CALCUTTA! poster that loomed over Times Square for so many years does not belong to Pam Pilkenton, the performer in the rest of the picture.

And this is only Paulette from the waist up.

The Life was the dullest fucking piece of shit. I'm so glad Titanic won.

Anyone know the story of Lupone and Annie get your gun? Did she try for the revival after her encores appearance?

Here's Patti in the concert staging of "Annie Get Your Gun " at the Vivian Beaumont Theater in 1998. The Weisslers were already well into planning their Broadway revival of "Annie Get Your Gun" that would open the following year, but they granted permission for this concert as a one-night-only benefit. So this is Patti's only "Annie Get Your Gun" performance in NYC. She repeated the role for the Ravinia Festival in 2010.

Talking about late '90s musicals reminds me of the old Broadway Jockey ad. Does anyone know what happened to some of those cuties?

The guy from Miss Saigon was hot!

Bellamy Young went from whore to First Lady (on "Scandal.") So there's a precedent for Melania.

R573 - whos' the actor on the far right?

R570 / R 571 - no clue. I was in high school then, but I saw Patti in concert somewhere in So Cal that year and the venue had a CD signing after her performance. She sang a song from Annie Get Your Gun at that concert -- I forget which.

My little gayling heart was happy to wait in line to get a few moments with La LuPone. I overheard her conversation with the eldergay in front of me. I heard him tell her that she would be a "wonderful Annie.." (I had no idea what Annie Get Your Gun was, but figured he didn't mean red headed orphan.) But despite all that, I still remember her leaning over the table she was seated at (as if to speak closely and quietly to the man) and said "Thank you, but do you know who they're getting for it?" The man shook his head and she stage whispered/hissed "BernadeTTTe." (with a really HARD T at the end of Bernie's name.)

Even then it made me chuckle. I love both those ladies, but Patti's victim complex and her irrational hatred of Bernadette is so off-putting.

By contrast, the last time Bernie was on Watch What Happens Live, Andy Cohen asked her what she thought of Patti performing Don't Cry for Me Argentina on the Grammys 40 years after she first did, and Bernadette praised her performance. No way Patti would have done that. Not in a million years.

“The guy from Miss Saigon” is Matt Bogart. Today is his birthday, incidentally. He was quite a piece back in the day, though he still looks good. Too bad he doesn’t work more.

Bogart was a really good Nick Massi in Jersey Boys

Awesome! Now can we ID the guy from Scarlet Pimpernel?

Matt Bogart is a sweetheart! And so sexy. And straight.

Scarlet Pimpernel guy is Charles… Can’t remember his last name.

Thanks for that, r571.

Company has confirmed it will be returning with Lenk and LuPone, tickets on sale shortly, but no dates given

As incredibly hot and beautiful as Matt Bogart was, I always felt he tended not to photograph all that well. This is about the best I can find, hope it works

Looks like Mr. Pimpernel, with the great bulge and tanned legs, was Charles West.

More Matt. I guess this one is pretty good, too :-)

[quote]Company has confirmed it will be returning with Lenk and LuPone, tickets on sale shortly, but no dates given

Maybe Lenk will have found her character by the time it returns.

Documentary of the making of the original London production of Sunday in the Park with George, interspersed with scenes from Sondheim teaching his class at Oxford. Be interesting to know if any of that class went on to any success in the theatre. And Quast sounds so much like Mandy.

I like Sondheim's theory about shows shouldn't need scenery to work.

[quote] Company has confirmed it will be returning with Lenk and LuPone, tickets on sale shortly, but no dates given

r582 I bet that's the producers' reaction to that ridiculous and interminable interview series Greg Evans has on Deadline.com, which gives the impression that they kinda sorta aren't coming back, especially Patti.

Matt learning how to shimmy.

[quote]I bet that's the producers' reaction to that ridiculous and interminable interview series Greg Evans has on Deadline.com, which gives the impression that they kinda sorta aren't coming back, especially Patti.

I would remind everyone that, SEVERAL years ago, Patti more or less stated she would not be doing any more musicals. Presumably, she just said that for the attention. I have no doubt that, if COMPANY does reopen, she'll be in it unless something specific prevents her from doing so, like another, better job or health problems.

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 2000, "Aida" opened at the Palace Theatre.

Hmmmm, r587, FOLLIES without scenery?

R592, as I'm sure you'd agree if you think about it briefly, FOLLIES without scenery would probably work very well UNTIL the "Loveland" sequence, where spectacle is really necessary. Although, come to think of it, I imagine even that sequence might work beautifully without constructed scenery if someone were to design it with beautiful projections to go along with gorgeous costumes.

Projections equals scenery, r593.

Wasn't the sadly misguided Eric Schaeffer revival pretty much FOLLIES without scenery?

And without direction R595

Patti gets on my nerves with her "this is my last musical ... no, wait, *this* is my last musical" routine. Either retire or don't.

Then there are those unfortunate “thespians” who force us to endure their umpteenth Razzie-worthy performances with all too common regularity... poor, pitiable souls.

r597=Cher

New thread.