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Season 3 of "Succession" Part 2

Continue to let a hundred flowers bloom.

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by Anonymousreply 601November 25, 2021 2:15 PM


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by Anonymousreply 1November 4, 2021 3:22 AM

Regarding Sarah Snook, me three on not considering her one of the best performers. She has the odd moment where she’s wounded or humiliated but it’s mostly full-balls sneering. She’s easily out acted by her three brothers.

There is no way someone and snide and would be considered the “likeable” one or the “acceptable face of the family” or the Roy with a conscience when she’s so mean and nasty and wears a permanent smirk.

She has said she is not playing Ivanka Trump and she’s not written as Ivanka beyond the vaguest comment of being her father’s favourite. Ivanka was considered the “good” one not because of her (then rather expected and standard New York wealthy liberal) values but because she was actually hard-working and polite and friendly. (She modelled in Australia the same time as I did high school work experience with an event coordinator and she was very sweet) Of course, Ivanka was rotten inside and chose to be be corrupted by power but Shiv never had that hook of being nice.

Apropos of nothing, Sarah also stacked on the lockdown kilos and sadly the weight is more Julia Gillard flab than Christina Hendricks curves.

by Anonymousreply 2November 4, 2021 9:00 AM

I think Sarah Snook is great as Shiv. I’m happy with all the major performances on this show, actually. I know the writing is acclaimed, but it’s been a bit over the top and trying too hard this season in particular.

by Anonymousreply 3November 4, 2021 9:51 AM

I think that Sarah is very good at having a range of emotions play across her face every time she has to sit in a room with Brian Cox. The discussion Shiv has with Logan when he tells her that people is politics and he can handle people was very good. But I agree that she isn't on the same level as someone like Jeremy Strong or even her regular scene partner, Matthew McFadyen, who lives in Tom in such a way as to make him a fully realized person. That I can feel bad for Tom at all is amazing, I find that type of person so odious. The people here complaining about "uh-huh" don't seem to understand that every character says it and it plays like a pregnant pause. I find it hilarious every time it gets uttered.

I've got to say though - Kieran Culkin has been on fire since that hotel lockdown episode last season. I've just been absolutely fascinated with Roman since S3 began. Really excited to see where they're going to take him.

by Anonymousreply 4November 4, 2021 3:31 PM

[quote] I've just been absolutely fascinated with Roman since S3 began

Same, and I feel like they’ve hidden Roman from us the past couple episodes. Who knows what he’s been getting up to?

by Anonymousreply 5November 4, 2021 4:13 PM

[bold]Canada riveted to a real-life ‘Succession’: A family empire’s internal war with billions at stake[/bold]

Story at link.

Somewhere Conrad Black and Barbara Amiel are sulking.

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by Anonymousreply 6November 5, 2021 6:44 PM

I'm fine with Sarah Snook. Shiv to me is the most interesting of the four Roy siblings because she's the only one of the four who has historically even pretended to be liberal (although Kendall is pretending to be so right now because it suits his strategy), but she's of course been raised by her monstrous parents to be as selfish and greedy and ruthless as her brothers are.

Other Dataloungers are bothered by her unusual body (the big ass and thighs and small breasts), but I actually find it interesting to have someone who is not a standard beauty in the role.

by Anonymousreply 7November 5, 2021 7:13 PM

I was actually hot and cold on Snook until last season when someone called the character out on being smart, but not nearly as smart as she thinks she is. And then all the snorting and scoffing just sort of fell into place for me. I'm not sure if the line was written to justify the acting choices or the acting choices underlined the character as conceived from day one, but suddenly Shiv's deserved insecurity, defensive snark and shallowness became fascinating to me.

by Anonymousreply 8November 5, 2021 7:47 PM

Rhea’s the one who called out Shiv as not being as smart as she thinks she is.

by Anonymousreply 9November 8, 2021 12:34 AM

Ohhhh, Tom. Tom Tom Tom.

by Anonymousreply 10November 8, 2021 1:41 AM

This show is getting pretty brutal. Every single one of the Roy kids was terrible this episode - although Kendall showed some emotion for his father and then gets fucked over anyway.

by Anonymousreply 11November 8, 2021 2:12 AM

Kendall is weak, but he’s not wrong about Logan. Logan is doing an Icarus, but he’s not wrong about Kendall.

Shiv has never in her life put in the hard work to become something and earn respect on her own, so she has no clue how to play someone like Carl.

Roman has potential but is still so distracted by hijinks that he makes basic mistakes like potentially shooting himself in the foot as a Tattoo Brother.

Greg is so without imagination that he can’t even dream big when he has all the leverage. And Tom is so obviously in love with Greg that even blind Greg could see it. Shiv is so unwilling to take five seconds to look into Tom’s lovely eyes that she barely knows Tom at all.

Tom, get out of there. Your boy Greg is safe so go save yourself.

Gerri was wearing a dangling tendril of love. She’s playing Roman like a fiddle.

by Anonymousreply 12November 8, 2021 2:22 AM

I hope these two crazy kids can make it work.

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by Anonymousreply 13November 8, 2021 4:39 AM

Whenever you see Roman with an "NPRI" (No Real Person Involved), like he did the first episode of the show with the little boy, and here, you see what a total monster he is. The scene with him pawing the man's forehead to see the remnants of the tattoo like the man wasn't even a human being but just a potential weapon was pretty brutal. He was trying to prove something dehumanizing his brother had once done but in the process being dehumanizing himself--and then Gerri reminded him that he was equally responsible for getting the man to tattoo Kendall's initials on his forehead years ago.

by Anonymousreply 14November 8, 2021 5:50 AM

Roman doesn’t realize he handed Gerri very compromising information about himself.

by Anonymousreply 15November 8, 2021 5:52 AM

Out of curiosity I downloaded the srt (subtitle) file and counted the number of times characters said "uh-huh." There were 20 instances in this episode, meaning every three minutes a character delivers an "uh-huh." It's noticeable because every character delivers the line in the exact same way, except Connor. I think that the point is that the three kids mirror their dad's way of speaking in a subconscious attempt to gain his affection. Still, it's ham-handed and distracting. I want to know what happens but I am ready to bail on this show.

by Anonymousreply 16November 8, 2021 10:37 AM

The bros at Reddit are convinced the Tom/Greg scene was purely about power and feeling emasculated on Tom’s part, with no subtext. But to me there was a very clear come on from Tom, rejection from Greg, and feeling spurned by Tom. I agree that Tom feels emasculated and powerless and uses Greg to work out his need for domination over someone, anyone, but there was more than that going on here, and you could see in Greg’s face that he picked up on what Tom was asking him, and then in Tom’s face the feeling of sadness that Greg shot him down. (Matthew McFayden has such pretty eyes.)

Or am I crazy?

by Anonymousreply 17November 8, 2021 12:21 PM

The uh-huhs don’t bother me one bit. Most people don’t speak very smoothly, especially in high-pressure situations. My only complaint is in reality, all these people would be interrupting each other a lot more often.

by Anonymousreply 18November 8, 2021 12:23 PM

From on the island I kept having flashbacks to Mad Men where Don gets back at Roger before a big meeting by taking him for a heavy seafood lunch and many, many drinks then rushes him back to work just before the meeting. There he’s already paid the elevator operator to say it’s down forcing them to take the stairs, and Roger getting more and more winded and sicker and sicker to the point of passing out. By the time they get to the offices he is a wreck, sweaty and a mess and looks old and sick and Don looks young and vigorous in comparison.

by Anonymousreply 19November 8, 2021 12:41 PM

No, you're not, R17.

I saw it the same way and was surprised they went there. But I think Tom's motivation had more to do with trying to humiliate Greg rather than a sexual attraction.

I also think that in Tom's goofy mind, he's preparing to go to prison and he's thinking that he'll be ass raped and he wanted to try it out with Greg so that he'd have that experience and he'd know what to expect.

by Anonymousreply 20November 8, 2021 1:23 PM

There's just one poster obsessed with the "uh-huhs." I don't even notice.,

by Anonymousreply 21November 8, 2021 2:36 PM

Kendall is going down in a big way. I have a feeling that dead cater-waiter thing is going to come back to haunt him.

by Anonymousreply 22November 8, 2021 3:11 PM

The problem with the dead cater-waiter thing is that both Logan and Colin (his chief of security) know the truth, but if they expose Kendall they're accessories after the fact since they covered it up.

by Anonymousreply 23November 8, 2021 3:16 PM

One thing I have problems understanding is why Greg never seems to register anything five minutes later after Tom bullies him or after Kendall played the trick on him with the watch. Is he just storing up the resentment, or does he really just not care because he's such a doofus?

by Anonymousreply 24November 8, 2021 3:19 PM

R21: Nuh uh. There’s dozens of us! Dozens!

by Anonymousreply 25November 8, 2021 3:22 PM

I think those of you trying to make sense of these characters are wasting your time. There’s nothing profound going on here.

by Anonymousreply 26November 8, 2021 3:35 PM

I think this season has a difficult task ahead of them. The Pierce family and Rhea were such interesting characters in Season 2 that I wanted to learn more about them, and I hated to see them go. Cherry Jones and Holly Hunter were excellent. This season has introduced a few new characters played by veteran actors like Sanah Lathem, Adrian Brody, .etc, but they're not compelling enough for me. And I feel the storyline keeps going in circles.

I still love the show and most of the principal actors involved, but I'm hoping this season gives us something juicy instead of these annoying red-herrings of who's going to be Logan's true successor. It's reminding me too much of Empire.

Also, I love Roman this season. Roman had to grow on me. I found him utterly obnoxious in Season 1 and part of Season 2. And Kieran Culkin plays the character the way Robert Downey Jr. would've approached the role, full of snark and sassy one-liners, which gets old quickly. Thankfully, he's more than a wisecracking sitcom trope, and they've added more substance to the character.

by Anonymousreply 27November 8, 2021 6:45 PM

*Sanaa Lathan

by Anonymousreply 28November 8, 2021 6:46 PM

I love this season but it has one major defect. Shiv sometimes does things right but it’s never acknowledged. Roman is a psycho and Kendall is a druggie, but they frequently get praise. It’s like the writers forgot to have someone say what Shiv did right or that it was not her fault.

by Anonymousreply 29November 8, 2021 6:57 PM

She got Mark Ravenhead to “pivot” re The Raisin when Tom couldn’t get him to do it. She deserves credit for that.

Kendall’s apartment, by the way, is in The Edge at Hudson Yards.

by Anonymousreply 30November 8, 2021 7:12 PM

R30 did she? I thought from Logan’s phone call in the jet from The Raisin that Ravenhead called The Raisin about the pressure.

by Anonymousreply 31November 8, 2021 7:32 PM

I’m glad I read these threads as I was beginning to despair about this season. You bitches have given me a few things to look out for.


by Anonymousreply 32November 8, 2021 7:59 PM

I thought it was that the President did not like the new coverage, and Logan said maybe they could adjust if the President dropped (or deescalated) the DOJ investigation. So Shiv did as told and Logan blamed the anchor.

by Anonymousreply 33November 8, 2021 7:59 PM

When Logan praises Kendall in front of the investor, and says he's the only one to replace him.... it was one of the oddest moments. He absolutely meant it and did it only to manipulate and beat Kendall. These multi-layered motivations are Lear-like (no, not Norman).

by Anonymousreply 34November 8, 2021 8:07 PM

"There are no fine wines in prison, Shiv."

by Anonymousreply 35November 8, 2021 8:37 PM

You are comparing this to Shakespeare?

by Anonymousreply 36November 8, 2021 8:43 PM

Some of the writing is laugh out loud spectacular for us witty folks! I also love some of the side eye and quiet moments they're walking along and saying nothing.

by Anonymousreply 37November 8, 2021 8:54 PM

It’s entertaining but they deliberately make the adult children incompetent. Wouldn’t they have gone to Ivy league schools and have MBAs? They are all painted as idiots when most rich families with legacy business make sure their children are educated and prepared.

by Anonymousreply 38November 8, 2021 8:59 PM

Yes, R33, that’s what happened. The Raisin (or somebody close) must have seen a daytime promo for Ravenhead’s questioning his presidency. Logan told him “Just watch the show” meaning the actual broadcast that night.

Shiv did get Ravenhead to “pivot.”

by Anonymousreply 39November 8, 2021 9:22 PM

[quote] Wouldn’t they have gone to Ivy league schools and have MBAs? They are all painted as idiots when most rich families with legacy business make sure their children are educated and prepared.

The secret is that the trust fund children who go to Ivies and get MBAs are often as dumb as boxes of hair and scrape through on favors and help from schools looking for donations. See Kushner, Jared.

by Anonymousreply 40November 8, 2021 10:25 PM

Where was Josh’s island?

by Anonymousreply 41November 8, 2021 10:26 PM

Tom really was preoccupied with anal this episode. When he’s complaining to Shiv about reporting to her, he mentions that everyone can see he’s being fucked in the ass by his wife.

by Anonymousreply 42November 8, 2021 10:31 PM

R41-I thought it was near Jones Beach.

by Anonymousreply 43November 8, 2021 10:40 PM

They would have taken the helicopters to Jones Beach or the Hamptons. Transferring to planes suggests someplace more distant.

by Anonymousreply 44November 8, 2021 10:44 PM

I almost wondered if it was an island near the Cape. It looked a little like Nantucket.

by Anonymousreply 45November 8, 2021 10:49 PM

One of the things that really sets Greg apart is his kindness. When he physically rejects Tom he doesn’t get angry or lash out, he tells Tom not to go.

by Anonymousreply 46November 8, 2021 10:51 PM

I was imagining the island is supposed to be something like Gardiner’s Island, perhaps one of those in Long Island Sound either in NY or Connecticut.

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by Anonymousreply 47November 8, 2021 11:17 PM

[quote] The problem with the dead cater-waiter thing is that both Logan and Colin (his chief of security) know the truth, but if they expose Kendall they're accessories after the fact since they covered it up.

Kendall has no evidence that his dad or Colin were involved in the coverup. It is dangerous for Kendall but not the others.

by Anonymousreply 48November 8, 2021 11:23 PM

Everyone's out of their box, everything's coming up fuck.

by Anonymousreply 49November 8, 2021 11:27 PM

[quote] Wouldn’t they have gone to Ivy league schools and have MBAs? They are all painted as idiots when most rich families with legacy business make sure their children are educated and prepared.

Kendall has said a couple of times that he knew someone "at the Lampoon," suggesting that he went to Harvard. As the other poster said, the kids of the wealthy go to those schools but they are often not very bright. It doesn't take much to get in if you're a legacy or if your parents are incredibly rich. You can't be a fucking moron, but you don't have to be all that bright. I don't think Donald Trump would get in in today's day and age, even as a transfer. But Kendall and the other siblings seem on the face of it as bright as any kid in the top Ivies.

by Anonymousreply 50November 8, 2021 11:27 PM

It was all shot in Montauk. The “hiking” scenes were shot in Shadmoor State Park.

by Anonymousreply 51November 8, 2021 11:40 PM

I think the helicopters were going to the airport in Westchester where their private planes are parked.

by Anonymousreply 52November 8, 2021 11:42 PM

Here it is…

by Anonymousreply 53November 8, 2021 11:44 PM

Oops, sorry.

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by Anonymousreply 54November 8, 2021 11:46 PM

Jared is not as incompetent as these three. Not saying he is a genius but Succession is a broad comedy.

by Anonymousreply 55November 8, 2021 11:53 PM

[quote] Wouldn’t they have gone to Ivy league schools and have MBAs? They are all painted as idiots when most rich families with legacy business make sure their children are educated and prepared.

This is why Stewy comes off as the most believable character on the show. He operates and talks like a person who is an Ivy League-educated venture capitalist. I think it was in the second season when Stewy used the word "parsimonious" as an insult to Kendall, and it was one of the few times when someone on Succession used a word like that where it didn't sound jarring.

Either that or Arian Moayed, due to his theater background, knows how to make dialogue like that work.

by Anonymousreply 56November 8, 2021 11:56 PM

The actress playing Shiv acts with nothing but smirks.

Roman’s perpetual sexual harassment for laughs and mock chortling “hardy hah hah” every time someone talks is getting old.

by Anonymousreply 57November 9, 2021 1:07 AM

I agree with R57. All Shiv does is purse her lips and sit there giving everyone in the room a side eye while her dialogue consists of mostly hmmm's , ummm's, and what do you think's. Kinda exactly like Ivanka Trump.

It's both brilliant and annoying.

by Anonymousreply 58November 9, 2021 1:36 AM

I took away from the episode what r33 posts about the Raisin, not what r31 posts.

by Anonymousreply 59November 9, 2021 1:39 AM

It might be like Ivanka Trump but I find it hard to believe Trump acts like that all the time, including in private. The actress who plays Shiv gives the weakest performance, followed by Kieran Culkin.

by Anonymousreply 60November 9, 2021 1:45 AM

The actress is playing Shiv that way because Shiv is inept at dealing with other people, she’s been catered to her whole life. She got fired from her non-family job because she went off on her boss for barely criticizing her. How she handled Con and Carl this episode is characteristic of her. She so obviously didn’t take Con’s request seriously, she couldn’t even pretend for two minutes to make pleasantries and ask what he wanted. She couldn’t spend the extra ounce of effort to show Carl a little respect, even after her dad told her he needed to be liked. She runs around smirking and so far in life it hasn’t had consequences for her. Now she’s feeling the heat, so her obnoxiousness is only increasing with stress.

by Anonymousreply 61November 9, 2021 1:50 AM

In this particular drama, it’s clear Logan is such a narcissist that he can’t even come up with a succession plan. He falsely tells all the children (except Connor) “you’ve the one.” Meanwhile he undermines all of them and kills their confidence, except the workhorse staff like Gerry that get things done (but of course he insults them too). He doesn’t support any of the children taking over because he doesn’t want to die. I hope he dies suddenly at some point because how many times are we supposed to go through the same story?

by Anonymousreply 62November 9, 2021 2:19 AM

[quote] Roman doesn’t realize he handed Gerri very compromising information about himself.

It was interesting that Geri handed it back to him after lecturing him about it.

by Anonymousreply 63November 9, 2021 2:23 AM

Tom is having a nervous breakdown; Shiv is no help so he turns to Greg.

by Anonymousreply 64November 9, 2021 2:43 AM

I hope Marcia gets iced out. Her whole storyline is trying to get more money or control the estate after Logan dies.

It’s also annoying that they never/rarely show ANTN news stories. It’s also hard to see why Logan is of any benefit. I can’t remember him ever making a good business decision. It’s all of this family fighting for what? To be head of an unlikable corporation?

by Anonymousreply 65November 9, 2021 2:52 AM

That’s a helicopter trip.

by Anonymousreply 66November 9, 2021 4:56 AM

[quote]But Kendall and the other siblings seem on the face of it as bright as any kid in the top Ivies.—Ivy League educated.

Perhaps at Cornell, dear.

by Anonymousreply 67November 9, 2021 4:58 AM

Kendall went to Harvard where he was president of the Lampoon.

I don't think we've found out yet where the other three went to college.

by Anonymousreply 68November 9, 2021 5:59 AM

^there is no way a humorless dweeb like Kendall would be President of the Lampoon.

by Anonymousreply 69November 9, 2021 6:03 AM

I hope Kendall gets one over on the old man …..what a bastard he is reminds me of my dad

by Anonymousreply 70November 9, 2021 10:44 AM

R70 I think the interaction between the two during the last episode responds to your desire: "Listen Greyback, you are old and losing it, Death will take care of this..."

by Anonymousreply 71November 9, 2021 2:59 PM

[quote]I love this season but it has one major defect. Shiv sometimes does things right but it’s never acknowledged. Roman is a psycho and Kendall is a druggie, but they frequently get praise. It’s like the writers forgot to have someone say what Shiv did right or that it was not her fault.

I don't think that's by accident.

by Anonymousreply 72November 9, 2021 3:03 PM

Hugs r70

by Anonymousreply 73November 9, 2021 3:18 PM

Kendall went to Buckley School growing up and Harvard for his undergrad. As did Stewie, him and Kendall go way vack.

Roman and Shiv? Who knows. It wouldn't be surprising to me if Roman didn't finish college. Though I'm sure Shiv has a degree.

by Anonymousreply 74November 9, 2021 3:27 PM

Roman is the current CFO and former head of their film division. He never seems out of his debts with these roles so I assume he finished college. He is clearly smart. He sounds like a lazy rich kid, but he chooses to go and work for his dad so I assume he and his siblings are just naturally ambitious people. He could be another Connor and no one would care but he decides to show up to work.

by Anonymousreply 75November 9, 2021 3:31 PM


by Anonymousreply 76November 9, 2021 3:32 PM

Roman is the COO btw r75, not CFO. The CFO is Karl.

by Anonymousreply 77November 9, 2021 3:39 PM

Connor has too much time on his hands for a COO but I’m sure he has a strong team doing any of the crappy work

by Anonymousreply 78November 9, 2021 3:44 PM

[Quote]It’s also annoying that they never/rarely show ANTN news stories.

Why would they? The cable news section is just one faction of their cooperation, the show is not directly about that

[Quote] It’s also hard to see why Logan is of any benefit.

Logan was born poor and built Waystar himself, that speaks for itself.

by Anonymousreply 79November 9, 2021 3:49 PM

They never show any of them doing something of value for the company. Roman primarily hangs out with Gerri. He screwed up the satellite launch which killed people.

Kendall blows every deal.

Shiv seems like a communication major from a minor college.

by Anonymousreply 80November 9, 2021 3:51 PM

Roman is a COO in name only. He certainly is not and never will be CFO which is regulated position and you normally need some form of accounting qualifications for it which I can’t see him gaining.

by Anonymousreply 81November 9, 2021 4:32 PM

[quote]Shiv seems like a communication major from a minor college.

Very unlikely, given the family pull.

by Anonymousreply 82November 9, 2021 5:41 PM

[quote] It’s also hard to see why Logan is of any benefit.

That's like saying Robert Murdoch (whom Logan is primarily based on) is hardly "of any benefit" to the News Corporation.

by Anonymousreply 83November 9, 2021 5:42 PM

Kendall better hope that Logan doesn't kick it soon, because he's the only thing keeping Marcia from blackmailing him over the dead waiter.

I think Shiv is generally treated better by Logan, but it's like her doesn't really expect much out of her - no matter what she does, she'll always be Pinkie but not "The Chosen One"

by Anonymousreply 84November 9, 2021 6:13 PM


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by Anonymousreply 85November 9, 2021 6:28 PM

What benefit is Rupert at age 90?

by Anonymousreply 86November 9, 2021 7:45 PM

Cute article, R85.

by Anonymousreply 87November 9, 2021 8:09 PM

[quote] What benefit is Rupert at age 90?

I know you're posing this as a joke, since you signed this as Lachlan, but: he provides more or less the same benefit Elizabeth II provides the British monarchy at age 95. Stability and security.

by Anonymousreply 88November 9, 2021 8:12 PM

The Shiv-Tom story has been the most nuanced exploration of power dynamics in a relationship I’ve ever seen. I love everything about this show, but that dynamic is truly art.

by Anonymousreply 89November 9, 2021 9:08 PM

I am hard-pressed to think of a show that is or was as well cast as this one.

by Anonymousreply 90November 9, 2021 9:35 PM

R89 But an art that makes one uncomfortable. I always feel like I really shouldn't be seeing this... too personal, perverted, creepy. I half expect a sudden twist in the scent like her saying "ok, now you have to eat the dog food. Right? It's time, right? Say it's time bitch..."

by Anonymousreply 91November 9, 2021 10:09 PM

Tom will almost certainly betray Shiv by the time this show ends. The most recent episode made that abundantly clear.

by Anonymousreply 92November 9, 2021 11:31 PM

This show makes great use of '80s character actors in secondary roles -- it's always fun to see David Rasche as Karl and Fisher Stevens has been a great addition too. Also the late Mark Blum as the head of the Cruises division, before he died of COVID.

by Anonymousreply 93November 10, 2021 12:11 AM

I dont understand why nobody levels with Connor Roy (Alan Ruck) about his ridiculous idea to run for President.

by Anonymousreply 94November 10, 2021 1:10 AM

Logan did pretty brutally while on the boat last season, telling Con he was embarrassing the family and himself. Then Logan needed Con’s support this season, so he’s willing to pander again. Why Con is still living in fantasy land, I don’t know, other than the fact that he’s spent his whole life doing that in various ways.

by Anonymousreply 95November 10, 2021 1:15 AM

Connor is clearly deluded yet harmless. No one has any respect for him and why the hell should they? Hell, he thinks his sugar baby loves him.

by Anonymousreply 96November 10, 2021 1:16 AM

Roman needled Connor about his presidential ambitions in season 2 episode 2.

by Anonymousreply 97November 10, 2021 1:31 AM

What is up with Fisher Stevens neck

by Anonymousreply 98November 10, 2021 1:53 AM

R94, maybe having him as President would make it easier to control what they want to control? Useful idiot sort of thing?

by Anonymousreply 99November 10, 2021 2:01 AM

One minor quibble with Sunday night’s episode: was it supposed to be summer or winter on Josh’s island? It looked like a winter landscape; the trees were bare. The men were dressed for cold weather.

But Josh’s kid was swimming in the pool, and Logan supposedly had heat exhaustion. (I remember a pitcher of water on the camp table!)

by Anonymousreply 100November 10, 2021 2:06 AM

For what it’s worth it was shot in late April of this year. However in the Succession timeline it’s probably meant to be late summer.

by Anonymousreply 101November 10, 2021 2:15 AM

No comments yet on Adrian Brody? Great addition to the cast, I hope he sticks around a bit.

by Anonymousreply 102November 10, 2021 2:19 AM

Shiv strikes me as after being raised in a house of boys and an overbearing father and attending Chapin, Spence or Brearley, she would go on to attend a Women’s college like Barnard, Smith or Bryan Mawr. There she honed her skills of outmaneuvering and dominating other women and definitely having a lesbian fling, more as a power move then something she enjoyed and I would love to see that rival emerge and be in competition with her again.

by Anonymousreply 103November 10, 2021 2:23 AM

Loved the latest episode. Matthew MacFayden has been the most underrated MVP - Jeremy Strong and Brian Cox get rightful praise, but he's got perhaps the most subtle role.

This season, Tom became the most interesting character on the show to me, and I now am 100% convinced he's gay. Jury's still out on Greg, who's still entertaining but needs to get more depth fast.

by Anonymousreply 104November 10, 2021 2:24 AM

Was it just me or was Tom looking especially good last episode? He looked like he’d had a good haircut and a polish before coming into work.

by Anonymousreply 105November 10, 2021 2:31 AM

Yes, Fisher Stevens' neck has been bothering me as well. I just hope he's well and not sick.

Was Greg attempting a bluff when he told Tom he was only going to ask for a position in the theme parks? I assume it was a bumbled bluff, as Greg is way smarter than he comes off. I'm not sure Tom was flirting with him so much as losing his mind. Even if he doesn't go to prison, he's psyched himself out.

Interesting comments about Shiv above. It almost seems as though she's turning into the sacrificial lamb these days. Meanwhile, Roman still plays the enfant terrible with his paramour Geri, Connor still has his head in the sand, and Kendall is nearly killing his father. (I honestly thought for a moment that Kendall and the Adrian Brody character would leave Logan to die on the dunes trail.)

by Anonymousreply 106November 10, 2021 2:57 AM

[quote] Was Greg attempting a bluff when he told Tom he was only going to ask for a position in the theme parks?

I think Greg was sincere, unfortunately.

This season is interesting because I keep wondering about what’s going on off-screen. Are Greg and/or Tom double-crossing on the advice of counsel and cooperating with the government? Are Roman and Gerri doing weird sex stuff?

by Anonymousreply 107November 10, 2021 3:02 AM

[quote] I think Greg was sincere, unfortunately.

Why “unfortunately?” Greg has an accurate assessment of his own abilities. Managing a theme park would be a stretch for him, but I think he said he wants that to be his stretch job.

I say good for him.

by Anonymousreply 108November 10, 2021 4:07 AM

Tom was coming unhinged, but I don't think that made his statement to Greg any less genuine. The look on his face and the tone of voice in which he says "I'd castrate you and then marry you in a heartbeat" is embarrassingly earnest enough that Greg can't properly respond. I'm really excited to see where they go with this dynamic.

Again, I said before I think Tom is a closeted gay man. We've mostly only seen his and Shiv's marriage from Shiv's perspective, until recent episodes. It's always been portrayed as a shallow marriage of convenience: Shiv's been fucking other men this entire time, and Tom's mainly staying with her for the social cachet.

by Anonymousreply 109November 10, 2021 5:44 AM

Has any of these characters grown or changed in any way? I’d say they are exactly who they were when we met them.

by Anonymousreply 110November 10, 2021 6:08 AM

Funny how most of the show is filmed so lushly but then Tom and Greg's office scenes seem videotaped as if they were in an episode of... The Office.

by Anonymousreply 111November 10, 2021 6:19 AM

[quote]Again, I said before I think Tom is a closeted gay man.

That would be an interesting twist; Shiv thinks she's so smart & married a man she can dominate & push around, but it turns out he's gay & she had no idea. Logan & her brothers will have a field day with this! She's going to *wish* she'd accidently killed a waiter instead!

by Anonymousreply 112November 10, 2021 9:59 AM

Sorry, we see too much of Tom for him to turn out gay. Maybe gay curious, but he's definitely into sex with Shiv, far more than she is with him. And Fisher Stevens has always had that pencil neck. It's ... disturbing.

by Anonymousreply 113November 10, 2021 11:41 AM

R113 Where do you get the impression Tom is super into sex with Shiv? I get the impression he’s a willing cuckold who’s in love with her money and power and going through the shallow motions of a marriage. We mostly see Tom through the POV of Shiv (like we mostly see Greg through the POV of Tom) so he comes off as more into her than she is into him, but I think they both see the marriage for it is. Tom being closeted (even to himself) would make a lot of sense as he’s trying to social climb in conservative circles and doesn’t come from money.

by Anonymousreply 114November 10, 2021 2:15 PM

"Has any of these characters grown or changed in any way? I’d say they are exactly who they were when we met them."

That seems ... realistic, no? Despite what most TV/movies/novels etc would have us believe, most people, especially once well into adulthood, don't really change.

by Anonymousreply 115November 10, 2021 2:30 PM

Isn’t Greg’s office the supply room? Seems like he was put there in season 1 because there was “no other office available” and no one wanted him there anyway. He’s not playing dumb, he is dumb. He does have a bit of self preservation because when he’s told to go into the office on a holiday weekend to shred a bunch of secret documents and not tell anyone, he keeps some. You’d have to be completely brain dead not to but he’s not going to suddenly wise up and become CEO. He’ll be collateral damage when the power struggle resolves.

by Anonymousreply 116November 10, 2021 2:47 PM

Tom seemed genuinely hurt when Shiv asked (well, told) Tom to open up their marriage. I didn’t read that as being very sexually into Shiv as much as in love with Shiv and wanting a traditional commitment, and feeling rejected when she didn’t want that with him.

I could buy Tom as bi, though. He was getting something from Greg emotionally that he couldn’t get from Shiv and as a result, Tom got attached. He didn’t even proposition Greg as much as propose! Tom is really a softie who wants to be someone’s Big Man protector and provider. Shiv had never let him put her in that box and instead has constantly smacked him when he’s tried. But Greg has relied on him for protection all along…until now!

by Anonymousreply 117November 10, 2021 3:11 PM

[quote] Tom is really a softie who wants to be someone’s Big Man protector and provider.

I think that’s it. Like so many men in that sphere, he very badly wants to be an alpha male without necessarily having the psychological equipment. Shiv neuters him, almost at every turn. But with Greg, he gets to be top dog.

by Anonymousreply 118November 10, 2021 3:33 PM

[quote] That seems ... realistic, no? Despite what most TV/movies/novels etc would have us believe, most people, especially once well into adulthood, don't really change.

If the characters don’t learn or evolve or change, what you are watching empty entertainment, not significant drama/literature. There’s nothing wrong with empty entertainment, just don’t compare it to Shakespeare.

by Anonymousreply 119November 10, 2021 3:43 PM

Change. Hmm. In my opinion, the whole show is (in part) Logan's slow, inevitable loss of power. Age chipping away at power. The diminishment of his faculties, and seeing his battle against it, is one of the more interesting arcs, and Brian Cox is masterful.

by Anonymousreply 120November 10, 2021 3:48 PM

Plus, the events on this show from S1 to S3 aren’t that far apart for real personal growth, nor did any of the core cast feel the burn of their actions. The only exception is Kendal who lost it after the waiter’s death. Beyond that, why would they change? I’ve been through shit at work that lasted a year or two. It changed some of my professional approaches, but didn’t change me at my core.

These people haven’t faced the consequences of their actions, which is why it feels true to form that they haven’t changed.

The CEO(s) that ran Sears into the ground didn’t change. Same for the one that mislead JCPenny. At a certain level, people are protected from reality so change is hard. This is why, smart people push for diverse boards and leadership teams because it’s easy to calcify at the top, so at least calcify with a wide range of perspectives and experiences.

by Anonymousreply 121November 10, 2021 4:34 PM

I love that they call the President, the raisin. Makes me smile, like I want to know why and if it’s an internal name that Logan pushed on him.

by Anonymousreply 122November 10, 2021 4:39 PM

I think it’s probably an internal name.

by Anonymousreply 123November 10, 2021 4:49 PM

Let’s not forget that Tom seemed quite proud of swallowing his own load after the head job during his bachelor weekend. He was excited by how kinky and turned on it made him feel (well at least until the others continually made fun of him).

He’s definitely up to explore his sexual boundaries so his flirtation with Greg seems legit to me.

by Anonymousreply 124November 10, 2021 6:51 PM

R116, to punish Greg for siding with Kendall, Tom moved him into the supply room. This happened in the current season.

by Anonymousreply 125November 10, 2021 8:31 PM

[quote] Plus, the events on this show from S1 to S3 aren’t that far apart for real personal growth, nor did any of the core cast feel the burn of their actions. The only exception is Kendal who lost it after the waiter’s death.

I don't think that's entirely true. Shiv realized in the finale of S2 she had made Tom miserable by insisting on an open marriage, and she basically begged her father (after her scene with tom telling her how unhappy he was in the marriage) not to ask him to go to prison. That was the first real time she's shown any repentance for anything she's done.

But I agree it's disappointing that only she and Kendall ever seem to be aware even in the slightest bit they are capable of hurting people and repent at all for it. I don't expect Logan ever to behave like a human being (he's basically a complete sociopath, and didn't even repent for striking his autistic grandson in Season 1), but I would like to see at least tiny recognitions from Connor and Roman that the things they do really hurt other people.

by Anonymousreply 126November 10, 2021 8:48 PM

I don't know how you guys binge this. I can only take 15-20 minutes at a time because they're all so awful. But they're so fascinating I go back for more.

by Anonymousreply 127November 10, 2021 8:59 PM

Iverson is autistic, R126? I think they’ve forgotten about that.

by Anonymousreply 128November 10, 2021 9:02 PM

r128, in the Thanksgiving episode in the first season, Rava plays with toys with Iverson in a separate room from the rest of the family, saying that "transitions are difficult" for Iverson. She implies he has difficulty socializing and having changes in his environment. Logan mocks Rava's concern, and when Logan cheats during the game, Iverson calls him out on it and won't let go of the accusations (causing Logan to hit him). So I think it's safe to say he's at least on the spectrum.

We've seen so little of Kendall's and Rava's children since that episode (we've only seen them at Sophie's birthday party at a Brightstar park riding the carousel) that we don't know whether the writers have forgotten this or not. Remember, Kendall spends so little time now with Sophie and Iverson that Roman says his brother must think their names are "Blur Face" and "Who Cares." I have heard, though, that we will see more of Kendall's children later in the season.

by Anonymousreply 129November 10, 2021 9:11 PM

Thanks for that, R129. I did notice that Kendall said to Josh that he bought that enormous rabbit for his son, who told him he wanted to buy the world’s biggest carrot.

by Anonymousreply 130November 10, 2021 9:16 PM

R127 we’ve been on DL, surrounding ourselves with awful people is like a pass time. It’s easier if you view it as a satire. Like much much smarter, corporate version of VEEP. Not trying to hit for laughs but there are so many hilarious Easter Eggs on this show that it makes it fun. I also root for villains so a show full of them is great.

Beyond that point, the show actually has a lot of heart when you consider it’s about a bunch of abused kids looking for validation from their dying father.

by Anonymousreply 131November 10, 2021 9:38 PM

R125, Jeez, this season? And it’s only been a few episodes. I really need to rewatch each episode to catch everything. And what made me think I could get away with not rewatching S1 and S2.

by Anonymousreply 132November 10, 2021 10:58 PM

So now that Greg had signed the Joint Defence Agreement with the Roys I guess he’ll get his old office back. One thing’s for sure this will really piss off granddaddy Ewan.

by Anonymousreply 133November 10, 2021 11:36 PM

[quote]Let’s not forget that Tom seemed quite proud of swallowing his own load after the head job during his bachelor weekend. He was excited by how kinky and turned on it made him feel (well at least until the others continually made fun of him).

Except that he [italic]wasn't[/italic] proud. He was masking his embarrassment because he felt like an idiot. I mean, are you not actually paying attention to Matthew McFadyen's facial expressions when he delivers his lines? Some of the responses I've seen here are really clueless. Many of you can't even get the details of the show right and have to be continually corrected. No, Tom isn't really sexually adventurous at all, which is why Tabitha gets him to swallow his own load, why he doesn't think he can do the full dirty in a threesome with Shiv and a hired hand, and why he melts down and tells Shiv "he's not a hippie" and doesn't want dildos up his ass when they're in the cove. He is whitebread through and through, and the Roys continually poke fun at him for this. He will *never* be one of them.

And yes, Shiv absolutely feels bad about some of the games she pulls on Tom. When he comes back from the retreat in Hungary after that terrible experience with boar on the floor, he asks Shiv how her weekend went and she asks him if he really wants to know. In that two seconds Tom understands she fucked someone else and we see the weight of it land on McFadyen's shoulders and he looks down, while Shiv's expression turns shamed. Its a compulsion for her. She is afraid of being boxed into something, and the games her father has played on his children all their lives. There has been a real change in her this season since she decided to go all in with her dad. It's a very complicated relationship these two have.

Also, Greg has NOT been in the office supply room since S1, we've seen several scenes of him in his last, very nice and very windowed, office, and he was literally just banished to the office supply room in the previous episode for not taking Waystar's legal counsel.

I can't take some of the criticism I've seen here seriously.

by Anonymousreply 134November 10, 2021 11:48 PM

They are doing a great job this season of filtering so many plot developments through untrustworthy narrators that it’s unclear what has or hasn’t happened. We heard Greg signed the paper, but did he? Is there some ploy behind it? Has Tom already flipped? Does Logan have some other game going on? Are Geri and Roman working to fully remove the company from Logan’s control?

The only one who doesn’t seem to be running a double-game is Shiv. Maybe because she thinks she’s finally got what she’s always wanted.

by Anonymousreply 135November 10, 2021 11:50 PM

Good points R135. Shiv isn’t smart enough to run her own game.

by Anonymousreply 136November 10, 2021 11:52 PM

It seems unlikely to me that the show would start up a plot involving Peter Riegert and James Cromwell that would come to an end off-screen after only a brief glimpse of their interacting with Greg. I wonder if Riegert’s character advised Greg on how to sign the JDA while maintaining some kind of independent counsel.

by Anonymousreply 137November 11, 2021 12:03 AM

[quote]Many of you can't even get the details of the show right and have to be continually corrected.

"have to be"???

We're in Joan Crawford-level control-freak territory.

[quote]I can't take some of the criticism I've seen here seriously.

Sounds like you should leave forever, then, and never come back ever again! For your own mental health!

by Anonymousreply 138November 11, 2021 12:20 AM

Does anyone else find Tom hot in a weird way? Not my physical or behavioral type at all, but he seems like he’d be an animal in the bedroom.

by Anonymousreply 139November 11, 2021 12:23 AM

I think Tom is gorgeous. Some angles make him look a bit weathered but he’s a beautiful man.

by Anonymousreply 140November 11, 2021 12:29 AM

Wow, I can’t believe he’s 47, I take back my comment about looking weathered, I thought he was in his late thirties!

by Anonymousreply 141November 11, 2021 12:40 AM

The actor who plays Tom is hot AF in real life. I love his accent. The character that he plays in succession makes him seem unattractive to me on the show.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 142November 11, 2021 1:21 AM

He’s Mr. Darcy. Yes, he’s gorgeous.

by Anonymousreply 143November 11, 2021 1:58 AM

Until recently, I didn't realize Tom was the same gorgeous actor who played Mr. Darcy in Pride & Prejudice.

by Anonymousreply 144November 11, 2021 1:59 AM

Tom and Shiv are 14 years apart in real life. But I don't know if that is supposed to be true for their characters.

by Anonymousreply 145November 11, 2021 2:03 AM

Watch out R139! Speculating that Tom could be an animal in the bedroom may not gel with R134 who is the expert in all things Succession (because she can read facial expressions and subtle clues like Sherlock Holmes).

Can everyone please check with R134 before posting. She’s made it very clear that she’s had enough of our erroneous speculations.

by Anonymousreply 146November 11, 2021 2:10 AM

I also remember Tom playing a leading role in the miniseries Little Dorrit.

by Anonymousreply 147November 11, 2021 3:17 AM

R146, we are all clueless morons and r134 is not having it!

by Anonymousreply 148November 11, 2021 4:58 AM

[quote] Does anyone else find Tom hot in a weird way?

For God’s sake Matthew played Mr. Darcy.

Mr. Fucking Darcy.

Of course other people find him hot.

by Anonymousreply 149November 11, 2021 5:07 AM

Macfadyen was also in the very funny Death at a Funeral.

by Anonymousreply 150November 11, 2021 5:16 AM

Uh, you know right that these are fictional characters?

by Anonymousreply 151November 11, 2021 5:20 AM

R149 - I don’t think we have “Mr. Darcy” in the US. This is the first time most of us are seeing the actor who plays Tom

by Anonymousreply 152November 11, 2021 10:55 AM

Yes, r152, "Mr. Darcy" was definitely in this country as it was a character in a movie called PRIDE AND PREJUDICE, maybe you've heard of it? Try to keep up.

by Anonymousreply 153November 11, 2021 12:26 PM

At least we can all agree that the actor who plays Tom and Mr. Darcy is hot and gorgeous. And we would love to see him naked.

by Anonymousreply 154November 11, 2021 12:50 PM

The Pride and Prejudice film he played Darcy in (opposite Kiera Knightly) was a big hit - i think that’s how Rosamund Pike got her big break and it’s stuffed with good acting (Donald Sutherland, Carey Mulligan, Dame Judi Dench, who steals every scene). Strangely enough, I’ve heard the score used for commercials and in other films. If you haven’t checked it out, it’s worth seeing—they went lavish with the visuals, there are lots of atmospheric shots of Matthew MacFayden looking hot, gloomy, and brooding, striding around in golden hour light.

by Anonymousreply 155November 11, 2021 12:58 PM

I love that version of Pride and Prejudice but I don’t find MC Faydan that hot

by Anonymousreply 156November 11, 2021 1:14 PM

R151 Yes, we heard you the first time.

by Anonymousreply 157November 11, 2021 1:36 PM

R151 was blocked

by Anonymousreply 158November 11, 2021 1:44 PM

All you missed was someone reminding us that these are fictional characters. I’m very glad to hear that a different set of gross oligarch families are running our media empires in reality.

by Anonymousreply 159November 11, 2021 1:46 PM

Girls, [italic]girls, GIRLS![/italic]

You're all petty cunts!

by Anonymousreply 160November 11, 2021 4:51 PM


by Anonymousreply 161November 11, 2021 7:19 PM

R140 I agree. I first saw Matthew Macfadyen in the BBC spy series MI-5 (Spooks was original title). He's so handsome and tormented in that series, and I swoon just recalling it.

by Anonymousreply 162November 11, 2021 8:12 PM

[quote]t seems unlikely to me that the show would start up a plot involving Peter Riegert and James Cromwell that would come to an end off-screen after only a brief glimpse of their interacting with Greg. I wonder if Riegert’s character advised Greg on how to sign the JDA while maintaining some kind of independent counsel.

This has been my feeling, too. The entire switch over with Greg has just been nagging at me, because it doesn't feel real. I think its the fact that they brought in Riegert that I feel like something is waiting in the wings. His lawyer character specifically said they wanted to get a "look under the hood" of the company. And at the top of the episode, Greg was so nervous to meet with Logan, and so insistent to Ken that he was 'sturdy', but then is happy to immediately ask Logan what kind of deal can he get. It just wasn't tracking for me.

by Anonymousreply 163November 12, 2021 3:20 AM

I think Ewan and the lawyer are going to drop a bomb on poor Greg in the next episode.

by Anonymousreply 164November 12, 2021 3:35 AM

I like the performance of the actor playing Carl. He’s very true to life.

by Anonymousreply 165November 12, 2021 10:00 AM

Tom and Greg on the cover of EW.

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by Anonymousreply 166November 12, 2021 11:43 AM

I’ve already decided how it’s going to end after next season. Logan is technically head of the company but he is incapacitated in some way, stroke maybe. He’s just a figurehead. Gerri and Stewie are running the company. The siblings are out of the picture completely, not sure how that will happen.

by Anonymousreply 167November 12, 2021 12:24 PM

I think you’re on to something, R167. I think the kids will be frozen out and Shiv will find herself as Connor’s presidential campaign manager.

by Anonymousreply 168November 12, 2021 2:23 PM

I've been thinking that, too. R167. I don't see how Kendell "wins", nor do I see Logan coming out of this unscathed.

The incident at the island where Logan could hardly breathe and put one foot in front of the other was foreshadowing. I thought he was either having another stroke of a heart attack. He's in very, very poor health.

by Anonymousreply 169November 12, 2021 2:32 PM

Kendall's siblings should have understood that the only chance they had to retain family control of the company was to back him in the immediate aftermath of his press conference. There is almost no question now that the Roys will lose control.

by Anonymousreply 170November 12, 2021 2:42 PM

Roman has an outside shot at retaining control: Logan will be dead, incapacitated, or removed in the vote; Kendall will never make it, because corporate people never reward coup-leaders or whistleblowers; Shiv is already getting pie on her face and made a huge mistake by interfering with network editorial, and will likely end up as a patsy for Logan; and ultimately I think Gerri will get her head chopped off because of her role as counsel during all the malfeasance. But if Gerri grooms Roman correctly, she could point to him as someone who is new but not too new.

It would be funny if everything landed in Con’s lap, though.

by Anonymousreply 171November 12, 2021 2:49 PM

I'm wondering if Logan wasn't "playing possum" with his medical issue on the island. Remember the "I Went to Market" game in Season 1? He played like he couldn't remember the previous things bought but, upstairs in his bedroom while getting ready for bed, he did remember the sequence and perfectly recited it. Was he playing Kendall to see how he would react?

by Anonymousreply 172November 12, 2021 2:57 PM

Good point, Cosmo, but I don’t think Logan was faking this. He’d have no interest in appearing physically weak in front of Josh.

by Anonymousreply 173November 12, 2021 3:14 PM

R173, unless he wanted to see if Josh would jump to back Kendall once he saw how "infirm and frail" Logan appeared to be. I'm just spit-balling here. But that was my first thought when I saw Logan struggling on the dunes; he's shining them on to get a reaction.

by Anonymousreply 174November 12, 2021 3:23 PM

Cosmo, from what I hear on Sunday’s episode we’re getting a medical explanation for his disorientation.

by Anonymousreply 175November 12, 2021 3:25 PM

I would love the ending to include Kendall jumping off the roof of his skyscraper while on a cocaine binge. He’s been up there in previous episodes contemplating it (I assume.) I’ve always thought him to be a sniveling little douche bag, and the rapping episode made me want him dead.

by Anonymousreply 176November 12, 2021 3:49 PM

Fisher Stevens is a cancer survivor. He's probably ok, but it could explain why his head looks too big for his neck. Or, considering his relationship many moons ago with Michelle Pfeiffer, both heads may be oversized.

by Anonymousreply 177November 12, 2021 4:47 PM

[quote]Logan is technically head of the company but he is incapacitated in some way, stroke maybe.

I've been feeling since the season began that the writers will take it even farther and we'll see Logan die in the season finale. The final two seasons will all be about the battle between the siblings to regain control of the company. The second episode's 'family meeting' seems to foretell this.

Cosmo, the point of the scene involving Logan remembering the order of the items in the market game wasn't to show that he was fooling everyone during the post dinner festivities - that makes no sense - it was to show he was slowly coming back to a sound mind. It prefaced his return to strength.

by Anonymousreply 178November 12, 2021 5:05 PM

I think next season will be the final season. Jesse Armstrong has hinted at that in interviews.

by Anonymousreply 179November 12, 2021 6:16 PM

Thanks, R175!

by Anonymousreply 180November 12, 2021 7:33 PM

Nooooooo R176. I know I'm supposed to hate him, but I know how damaged he is because of his father. He is so stunted and an empty shell of a person.

I would love to see some sort of redemption for him.

by Anonymousreply 181November 12, 2021 9:05 PM

Fisher Steven has always had a pencil neck

by Anonymousreply 182November 12, 2021 9:31 PM

I hate all these people, but I think that's the point: the rich are different, and not in a good way.

by Anonymousreply 183November 12, 2021 10:15 PM

I wouldn’t count on redemption for anyone in this show.

by Anonymousreply 184November 12, 2021 10:49 PM

I think the series will end with Kendall going out on the top deck of the building contemplating jumping off, but before he can decide, he'll be crushed by the body of Megan Draper, finally jumping from the terrace of her Manhattan apartment.

by Anonymousreply 185November 13, 2021 12:00 AM

Why do DLers always, always, always predict such ridiculous plot turns for serious TV shows? It's like they genuinely want every single TV show to be as much like "Dynasty" or "Days of our Lives" as possible.

"I predict this season of 'The Crown' the Queen will reveal to Diana she's secretly her mother, and so Diana will realize she and Charles are an incestuous couple!"

by Anonymousreply 186November 13, 2021 12:03 AM

R185 and R186 - Well I, for one, am here precisely for those sorts of melodramatic plot twist speculations. Live a little, babe.

by Anonymousreply 187November 13, 2021 12:13 AM

Honey, I'm not here to share in your awful, awful taste.

by Anonymousreply 188November 13, 2021 12:19 AM

Hate to tell you, ladies, but Succession is actually the prequel to Fear The Walking Dead. Logan is about to get an experimental therapy to assist him overcome his next stroke. Instead, he actually becomes zombie ‘patient zero’. All the Roy siblings die in a three way helicopter accident and Greg the Egg becomes the new CEO.

by Anonymousreply 189November 13, 2021 12:36 AM

Just caught E4 last night.

Random observations:

Yes, Kendall went to Buckley as did another famous cokehead, whose DL name is a candy commonly eaten in movie theaters, and whom many of you said reminds you of Kendall

As for show:

There were strong sexual undertones and fear of prison rape in the Greg/Tom Nero scene

It's unclear what happened with Ravenhead as the call from the president seemed to come within an hour or two of Shiv meeting with him and it was still daylight, so the show would not have aired. I think it was purposely left vague

Ditto whether Greg signed the legal docs, when and why. Had he schemed the whole theme park bit in just a few hours?

Greg chugging the coke was my favorite bit

Josh's pool was likely heated and kids don't mind that it's freezing when you get out

Do we know how Josh made his money?

I was glad Kendall called Logan out on the casual antisemitism though Josh did not seem to react to it. He may already have been checked out on the Roys by that point.

The whole episode was all about power plays who had leverage over who in each scene and how, as per Logan, it's always shifting.

by Anonymousreply 190November 13, 2021 1:49 AM

R190, the president had obviously just seen a promo in the afternoon for the actual broadcast which is airing that night. Logan tells him “Just watch the show.” Meaning the actual broadcast that night. These writers know what they’re doing.

by Anonymousreply 191November 13, 2021 1:54 AM

[quote] Do we know how Josh made his money?

Through investing.

by Anonymousreply 192November 13, 2021 2:04 AM

[quote]It's unclear what happened with Ravenhead

[quote]Logan tells him “Just watch the show.”

Logan also tells the president beforehand to ignore the rumors, so Ravenhead might have been the one to start that rumor expecting it to get back to the raisin.

by Anonymousreply 193November 13, 2021 2:50 AM

When are we getting some Skarsgaard? I was thinking he’d get involved with Shiv, but maybe Tom will take up with him given last episode. Or maybe he was Gerri’s date ;-)

by Anonymousreply 194November 13, 2021 2:58 AM

Skarsgard won't be in until two weeks from Sunday, when they do the episode about Kendall's fortieth birthday.

Next week is the shareholders' meeting episode, then the next week the episode about the conservative convention in Virginia, then Kendall's 40th birthday, and then the two episodes in Italy to finish the season.

by Anonymousreply 195November 13, 2021 3:04 AM

[quote] Next week is the shareholders' meeting episode


by Anonymousreply 196November 13, 2021 3:05 AM

And there’s a wedding in one of the two Italy episodes which will be first mentioned in the republican convention episode.

by Anonymousreply 197November 13, 2021 3:21 AM

[quote]I was thinking he’d get involved with Shiv, but maybe Tom will take up with him given last episode. Or maybe he was Gerri’s date ;-)

I got the sense his scenes were going to be with Roman.

by Anonymousreply 198November 13, 2021 3:22 AM

I think it Waystar will be sold to Disney the way Fox was. The kids will take the money and run.

by Anonymousreply 199November 13, 2021 4:07 AM

Not all of Fox was sold to Disney. Logan has already proposed to spin off the cruise line.

by Anonymousreply 200November 13, 2021 4:13 AM

I didn’t say it was.

by Anonymousreply 201November 13, 2021 5:12 AM

I'm still two episodes behind (and I haven't read this thread at all), but I have a question:

Is it just me or has the juggling of possible CEOs been the main plot point for three years now? I sometimes feel like I'm watching the same scenes from season one but in slightly different settings.

I understand it's the basic premise of the show, but it's starting to feel a little redundant.

by Anonymousreply 202November 13, 2021 5:15 AM

I agree completely. It's tedious.

by Anonymousreply 203November 13, 2021 5:43 AM

I also agree with R202. That's the point I made at R27. It's starting to feel like Empire with Lucious Lyon fighting his three kids over the control of his record company and how he manipulates and plays each one like a fiddle.

I accept Succession for what it is: a smartly-written primetime soap with prestige tv garb.

by Anonymousreply 204November 13, 2021 5:56 AM

Oh you nailed it R204! Empire is a perfect comp. It was so great for one season and then it simply had no possible growth after that. Succession is better crafted, but it definitely suffers from the same issue.

It's weird it gets such universal love despite this pretty glaring flaw.

by Anonymousreply 205November 13, 2021 6:41 AM

^^That was me R202^^

by Anonymousreply 206November 13, 2021 6:42 AM

Exactly R193 - it is purposely left ambiguous so what really happened will come as more of a surprise and so that the R191s of the world can think themselves clever for figuring it out.

by Anonymousreply 207November 13, 2021 10:05 AM

I have not seen the Kevin Costner show "Yellowstone" but it seems like it has a similar story line - who will inherit the ranch

by Anonymousreply 208November 13, 2021 10:06 AM

I agree that it’s making the show feel repetitious. But I don’t mind it because it reflects the reality of the characters—this has been the central question of their lives the whole time, who will Daddy pick? Everything in their relationships with their father centers on that, pick me pick me pick me.

by Anonymousreply 209November 13, 2021 10:34 AM

Just here to express my gratitude to the people here who are smarter than me, who catch all the little things I didn’t, who remember tidbits from last seasons and how they’re relevant to the current episodes. The discussions here are important and add so much to my viewing. Thanks, smart bitches.

by Anonymousreply 210November 13, 2021 11:04 AM

[quote]I have not seen the Kevin Costner show "Yellowstone" but it seems like it has a similar story line - who will inherit the ranch

That's not at all the thrust of Yellowstone.

by Anonymousreply 211November 13, 2021 12:10 PM

+1 on R210

And in that vein: Have we ever seen Josh (Adrian Brody) before on the show? If not, has he ever been mentioned in passing? Have they told us where his money comes from?

And why was he wearing so many layers of clothing? What message was that trying to convey?


by Anonymousreply 212November 13, 2021 1:52 PM

[quote] And why was he wearing so many layers of clothing? What message was that trying to convey?

My read was to emphasize that he has working-class roots (unlike Kendall) and he doesn’t resent them or care about hiding them (unlike Logan).

Clothes-wise, I was really struck by how many layers Logan was wearing, he was swaddled in all these fabrics like a baby, and Kendall was unpeeling him like an onion. A man with many layers heading towards the end of his independence.

by Anonymousreply 213November 13, 2021 5:25 PM

R213 I didn't see "working-class"... I saw, "new style".... where tech wealth has re-imagined what rich people look like. In a sense both Kendall and Logan looked like over-dressed dinosaurs in comparison.

The art direction/details of Succession are one of its primary pleasures, I think.

by Anonymousreply 214November 13, 2021 5:29 PM

R208, that's not Yellowstone at all. If you wanted to compare, Yellowstone Ranch would be the like corporation at the center of Succession. But instead of focusing solely on who will be its CEO at the center, Yellowstone focuses on how the ranch/corporation runs/stays on top/fights off competition/deals with the in fighting of its board and key employees/etc.

It's actually a much stronger premise for a show. Much more room to grow and evolve. But Succession is more flashy, better acted, and has better writing.

by Anonymousreply 215November 13, 2021 5:31 PM

One of my favorite characters to watch is Logan’s French wife. She’s in a negotiated position and is well aware of the transactional nature of the relationship. That bitch is getting her millions no matter what happens to Logan, and it’s all on paper.

by Anonymousreply 216November 13, 2021 5:37 PM

She is brilliant at concise, cutting commentary—the Pierce dinner party, the STD comment to Holly Hunter, “your fucking kids,” etc.

by Anonymousreply 217November 13, 2021 5:42 PM

Marcia, la femme de Logan, n'est pas française, R216 / R217.

C'est une Arabe, du Liban.

Elle est probablement chrétienne car elle a un nom européen

by Anonymousreply 218November 13, 2021 5:55 PM

That was my thought as well r214. Adrien Brody's character made his wealth in tech right? The tech crowd is notoriously more practical and less formal in their dress than the old school industry crowd which still tries to cling to Mad Men era conventions of how men should dress.

by Anonymousreply 219November 13, 2021 5:56 PM

R218 - What? Write in fucking English, asshole.

by Anonymousreply 220November 13, 2021 6:03 PM

Poor R220 - the joke went over your head.

by Anonymousreply 221November 13, 2021 6:11 PM

R221 or (as I suspect) R220 is simply being satirical. Pretty funny to think any digital space is "in" the USA.

by Anonymousreply 222November 13, 2021 6:17 PM

You must be new here R222

by Anonymousreply 223November 13, 2021 6:19 PM

I’m with R223.

by Anonymousreply 224November 13, 2021 6:22 PM

Oh dear.

by Anonymousreply 225November 13, 2021 7:01 PM

Google and ye shall find.

Brody explains the layers

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by Anonymousreply 226November 13, 2021 7:10 PM


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by Anonymousreply 227November 14, 2021 1:00 AM

Marcia in many ways is an allusion to Wendi Deng. But she's been underused so far.

Will we find out Marcia having an affair with the President, as a nice little nod to Wendi's with Tony Blair?

by Anonymousreply 228November 14, 2021 6:40 AM

Wendi Deng had an affair with Tony Blair, too?! Dear God, that bitch gets around.

by Anonymousreply 229November 14, 2021 8:47 AM

So, tonight’s the meeting right? What mayhem is going to be unleashed? Who will win for worst behavior?

by Anonymousreply 230November 14, 2021 11:16 AM

Putin too allegedly, R229

Last I checked (via a DL thread) she was with a 21 year old Eastern European male model,

by Anonymousreply 231November 14, 2021 12:28 PM

Tonight is when the doctors tell Logan he has 6 months to live. The pressure is now on to settle things for the future. His episode in the helicopter was caused by the glioblastoma diagnosis we’ll hear tonight.

by Anonymousreply 232November 14, 2021 12:33 PM

Nice try, R232, but nope. Brian Cox actually let it slip in an interview that Logan has a urinary tract infection. And that can cause disorientation if meds aren’t being taken properly.

This is great.

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by Anonymousreply 233November 14, 2021 3:29 PM

I probably need to do a rewatch but what is the importance of the shareholders and the vote, etc.?

by Anonymousreply 234November 14, 2021 8:16 PM

Thanks R233, that was a very interesting article.

One note - the whole point of Billions is to get you to root for Bobby Axelrod who is ostensibly the bad guy and against Chuck Rhodes, who is ostensibly the good guy.

Or at least that was the initial premise--I stopped watching because the show seems to have lost its way.

But hence the wealth porn because it was supposed to bring you onto TeamAx

by Anonymousreply 235November 14, 2021 9:19 PM

R234, Waystar Royco is a public company, so the shareholder meeting is where shareholders vote on company issues and elect the company's board of directors. Disney's shareholder meeting about 20 years ago is where Michael Eisner's reign as CEO came to an end because of a shareholder revolt organized by Roy E. Disney.

by Anonymousreply 236November 14, 2021 9:39 PM

R234 Sandy and Stewy are attempting to perform a hostile takeover of the company. They are trying to convince more than 50% of the shareholders to vote out the current leadership and vote themselves in.

That's why the meeting with Adrien Brody's character happened. He owns like 4% of the company so his vote was important.

by Anonymousreply 237November 14, 2021 9:40 PM

[quote][R213] I didn't see "working-class"... I saw, "new style".... where tech wealth has re-imagined what rich people look like. In a sense both Kendall and Logan looked like over-dressed dinosaurs in comparison.

Not in their own world off Josh's island. Josh would look completely out of place in boardrooms.

Don;t make the mistake the NYTimes keeps making that the tech world = all of corporate America. It just represents a part of it.

by Anonymousreply 238November 14, 2021 9:52 PM

I can't believe how tense and wound up in knots I was throughout this episode. Just two ancient enfeebled old men holding all that power and fighting over private jets. That's really it in a nutshell.

Also, it appears Greg really is an idiot. Like what did he really think was going to happen with his grandfather and with Ken when he went over to Logan's side?

by Anonymousreply 239November 15, 2021 2:08 AM

It was a fine episode except for the ending: Logan would have blocked Kendall's number last episode after the horrible walk on Josh's island when his son told him he was going to die, if not long before.

My father suffered from dementia, and the part of the episode where Logan thought Shiv was Marcia and then started calling for Caroline and thinking his dead sister Rose was alive was very true to what really happens when an old person loses it.

by Anonymousreply 240November 15, 2021 2:12 AM

“Just two ancient enfeebled old men holding all that power and fighting over private jets.“

Exactly. Two literally demented dinosaurs playing out their ancient grudges on a global stage (with the third demented old man, the president, holding on the phone). Pretty great commentary on the world we live in today.

Looks like Connor really is going to get his presidential run. I listened to Alan Ruck on Maron’s WTF recently and he said when he was cast that the producers told him that his role would get more important over time.

by Anonymousreply 241November 15, 2021 2:30 AM

Yes between Sandy, Logan and the Raisan there was a very noticeable commentary about elderly white guys who are barely together holding the power. Though I was surprised to see Sandy, he hasn't been on screen in a long time, didn't think he would be that bad.

[Quote]Looks like Connor really is going to get his presidential run.

I honestly am being forced to wonder....is this show actually going to make Connor President?

I will say this episode really showed how Logan is such a dominant force and that he has surrounded himself with people who wouldn't challenge him. Gerri, Frank and even Roman didn't try to step up and take control of the situation. It took Shiv, who was an outsider in this circle til recently.

by Anonymousreply 242November 15, 2021 2:42 AM

How many times are we supposed to go through the same story?

by Anonymousreply 243November 15, 2021 2:44 AM

I am finally agreeing with those who said last week that the biggest problem with the show is that nothing ever really changes.

We're basically still where we are at the end of Season 1:

*Logan still has all the power on the show, is terrified of dying, and is rotten to all of his kids;

*Conner is still disrespected by everyone in the family but dreams of being president;

*Kendall is still the most consistently humiliated and the unhappiest, but dreams of taking action but always fails;

*Shiv comes close to power but is always disrespected by her father after she achieves anything;

*Roman has a smart mouth and has his father's ear more than his siblings do, but none of them or the Waystar executives (except secretly Gerri) really respect him because of his smart mouth;

*Tom is nominally close to the family but constantly sexually humiliated by Shiv who loves him but is willing to sacrifice him and is apparently not physically attracted to him;

*Greg is still the plaything of the main family, and constantly threatened by his mean and bullying grandfather;

*Even Marcia is still married to Logan but still views the marriage as almost entirely transactional.

They desperately need to change things up. Someone needs to die; or someone needs to go to prison; or someone needs to leave the family fold permanently; or the company needs to be sold... something. I feel like we're in a permanent holding pattern and its deeply dissatisfying, despite how intelligent the dialogue and the camera work are (amazing wide shots!), and despite much the critics seem to eat this show up. (NONE of them ever criticizes it or dislikes it.)

by Anonymousreply 244November 15, 2021 2:48 AM

[Quote]and despite much the critics seem to eat this show up. (NONE of them ever criticizes it or dislikes it.)

The Vanity Fair review of Season 3 literally said exactly what you are complaining about r244. There are critics who warned about this even before the season aired.

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by Anonymousreply 245November 15, 2021 2:55 AM

Too talky and Roman’s snark is getting old.

by Anonymousreply 246November 15, 2021 3:03 AM

As many times as I want you to R243, you bendy fuck.

by Anonymousreply 247November 15, 2021 3:04 AM

I think Armstrong said he wanted 4 or 5 seasons, not to extend it beyond its run. So I call Logan dying at the end of this season (or next) and the final season revolving around a mad power grab between the siblings where everyone ends up ruining each others lives/sending each other to jail so that some "nobody" - I think it'll be Greg - swoops into the CEO chair.

I don't get where people see earnest love from either side of the Tom / Shiv arrangement from. Tom begging Shiv for a baby was all kinds of fucked up.

by Anonymousreply 248November 15, 2021 3:10 AM

R241, I absolutely believe a lot of next season that Connor will run for president, with an unwilling Shiv as his campaign manager.

Tonight’s episode showed how, bit by bit, Tom and Logan are growing closer. And this will be very bad news for Shiv.

by Anonymousreply 249November 15, 2021 3:14 AM

Towards the end of the episode, when everything is hanging by a thread and Logan is delirious, as soon as Shiv stepped up and made the deal with Sandy #2 (bring your daughters to the slaughter indeed), I knew Logan was going to find fault with her the second he came out of it. The way he snubbed her at the end (also reminiscent of the way he yelled at Gerri a few weeks ago to "stop fucking hovering") reminded me of when Kendall had to scramble to find money for the massive loan that Logan had taken out years before as the stock continued to dip, and as soon as Logan was out of his coma and Kendall gave him the news, expecting to be applauded for saving the day, Logan tells him he's a fucking idiot.

The kids should have banded together when Kendall made his play to the other siblings. Ever since that episode I have been convinced Logan won't survive the season. The plot does need to change. It won't work for another cycle of this. As Andy Greewald said on The Watch podcast, the seams have started to show.

by Anonymousreply 250November 15, 2021 4:02 AM

Tom was a great nursemaid with Logan, but Logan calling him “son” was just the UTI talking. And Tom tracking Shiv’s cycle so she can go through a pregnancy, delivery, and newborn time alone while he’s in jail is just downright insane. I could feel him wanting to say, “this is what you should do for me because of what I’m doing for your dad.”

It was dispiriting that no one was engaged in plans under the surface. Neither Greg nor Tom has a trick up his sleeve.

by Anonymousreply 251November 15, 2021 4:05 AM

The most amusing part of the episode was Shiv triumphantly saying “I just do whatever my dad tells me” and hanging up the phone as thought it was some kind of empowering statement.

by Anonymousreply 252November 15, 2021 4:06 AM

Rhea Jarrell had agreed to hold her statement on her rapid departure until after the shareholder vote, if the writers remember that.

by Anonymousreply 253November 15, 2021 4:09 AM

It’s just going around in circles. Kendall is more and more pathetic and everyone is the same so it’s kind of pointless.

by Anonymousreply 254November 15, 2021 4:20 AM

And was the whole Adrien Brody episode a waste of time? Stewy seemed to change course in less than 5 minutes.

by Anonymousreply 255November 15, 2021 4:41 AM

Boring this week.

by Anonymousreply 256November 15, 2021 8:36 AM

It was weird to me that they didn’t show Adrien Brody at the meeting, 7nless there was a quick pan in the crowd.

by Anonymousreply 257November 15, 2021 11:37 AM

Will there be a healthy time jump in weeks, or even a month or so in the next episode?

by Anonymousreply 258November 15, 2021 11:38 AM

Connor’s presidential ambition is best in small doses. He’s good for a laugh here and there but to have him actually run and dedicate an actual storyline to it would turn this show into a cartoon. Enough. They got bigger things to worry about.

by Anonymousreply 259November 15, 2021 11:51 AM

Probably not, R258. The next episode is set at a Republican conference where the next presidential candidate will be “selected.”

by Anonymousreply 260November 15, 2021 12:34 PM

*The most amusing part of the episode was Shiv triumphantly saying “I just do whatever my dad tells me” and hanging up the phone as thought it was some kind of empowering statement.*

She said that because Sandy’s daughter Sandy had said the same thing in their previous meeting a bit earlier.

by Anonymousreply 261November 15, 2021 1:01 PM

Yes, because it’s SO UNREALISTIC for a rich buffoon with daddy issues to run for President.

by Anonymousreply 262November 15, 2021 1:04 PM

[quote] She said that because Sandy’s daughter Sandy had said the same thing in their previous meeting a bit earlier.

Yes, quite obviously. But the fact that Shiv thought that was some kind of mic drop moment was a great illustration of how she mistakes privilege for empowerment.

by Anonymousreply 263November 15, 2021 1:06 PM

Ahhh, she was just being a cunt. She’s been in cunt mode a lot in recent episodes.

by Anonymousreply 264November 15, 2021 1:45 PM

[quote]Yes, because it’s SO UNREALISTIC for a rich buffoon with daddy issues to run for President.

That's what I was thinking too! And hapless, moronic Connor will probably develop some cult-like following in which people will alienate friends & family & even break the law to prove their commitment to him. Like that could ever happen!

by Anonymousreply 265November 15, 2021 1:50 PM

I am intrigued by Con’s newfound and confidence and self-possession this season. It’s almost like watching Kendall’s betrayal freed him up to go for something he wants as well.

by Anonymousreply 266November 15, 2021 1:53 PM

And a former call girl as First Lady R265

by Anonymousreply 267November 15, 2021 1:56 PM

[quote]It was weird to me that they didn’t show Adrien Brody at the meeting, 7nless there was a quick pan in the crowd.

There was. He was there.

by Anonymousreply 268November 15, 2021 2:10 PM

The imaginary cat bit reminded me of a dead Miss Blakenship being rolled away with a blanket covering her on “Mad Men”.

by Anonymousreply 269November 15, 2021 2:11 PM

So the show is turning into the President Connor show? Hmm. Not sure how appealing that is as a viewer.

I hope Greg sues Greenpeace before his grandfather dies.

by Anonymousreply 270November 15, 2021 3:34 PM

[quote]I hope Greg sues Greenpeace before his grandfather dies.

And then Save the Children, as Tom suggested.

by Anonymousreply 271November 15, 2021 3:35 PM

[quote]So the show is turning into the President Connor show? Hmm.

No, that's just Dataloungers projecting wildly unrealistic plot directions yet again, probably because they are so desperate for something to actually happen.

Focusing on Conner getting elected president (with Shiv as his campaign manager, yet!) is not going to happen, though

by Anonymousreply 272November 15, 2021 3:44 PM

I'm a big fan of the series, but I agree that this last episode was a bit of a letdown. That's it? That's the big drama point of "winning"?

Even the Shiv/Tom sick attachment was getting tedious. I suppose the best part for me was seeing Roman's deep need to see Logan as superman, "he's playing 3-dimensional chess, he's 6 moves ahead of everyone...!" Even with Logan delusional, Roman absolutely needs to perform Daddy worship... his life is so structured around that.

by Anonymousreply 273November 15, 2021 5:24 PM

I thought that the episode was wildly funny. Some of the reaction shots of the assistants alone. The sick rabbit. Tom offering to hold Logan’s cock in the toilet. The video presentation of the senior women showing how Waystar was addressing sexism being killed as Karl marches on stage to announce the agreement. Frank and Geri and Karl all throwing to each other from the podium and sprinting off stage.

Funniest episode ever for me.

by Anonymousreply 274November 15, 2021 5:44 PM

There's an article in The new Yorker from earlier this month that echoes our complaint that the show doesn't go anywhere, and that it's mostly now like a sitcom (the characters never change, but keep doing their funny shticks every episode).

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by Anonymousreply 275November 15, 2021 5:49 PM

When the third season of “Succession” premièred, a couple of weeks ago, some viewers watching on HBO Max experienced a glitch: instead of being brought to the first episode of the new season, they found themselves rewatching the first episode of the entire series. The pilot opens with Kendall Roy (Jeremy Strong) rapping in a town car belonging to Waystar Royco, the right-wing media conglomerate run by his father, Logan (Brian Cox). It is Logan’s eightieth birthday, and Kendall is certain that his father is going to name him C.E.O. of the company. (“You’re the man, Mr. Roy!” Kendall’s driver tells him.) The scene is a far cry from the actual opening of Season 3, which begins where Season 2 left off, with Kendall collecting himself after a press conference in which he has effectively declared war against his father. And yet Kendall was able to get through several bars of the Beastie Boys’ “An Open Letter to NYC” before viewers realized the mistake.

The confusion was understandable. Despite all its minute twists and turns, “Succession” is surprisingly static. The series, a brilliant tragedy-satire of the corporate élite, created by the British comedy writer Jesse Armstrong, is centered on the question of who will succeed Logan, a fearsome Rupert Murdoch-like mogul who closes roughly seventy per cent of his interactions with the epithet “Fuck off!” Although Kendall is initially presented as the heir apparent, it soon becomes clear that he is not cut out for the job, and that neither are his equally power-hungry siblings: Shiv (Sarah Snook), a shrewd political operator; Roman (Kieran Culkin), a squirrelly nihilist; and Connor (Alan Ruck), a nincompoop libertarian. There are other candidates, including Tom Wambsgans (Matthew Macfadyen), Shiv’s sycophantic, tortured husband, who also works at Waystar, and Gerri Kellman (J. Smith-Cameron), a general counsel with a naughty side. The underdog pick is Cousin Greg (Nicholas Braun), an ingenuous arriviste who, long-limbed and blunder-prone, provides much of the show’s comic relief. For two seasons, these characters circled the meaty morsel of the C.E.O. role like Cartier Tank-wearing vultures. But Logan held fast to his power, even after falling ill, and took a gladiatorial pleasure in keeping his children champing at the bit, undercutting one another and exchanging inventively snippy verbal bitch slaps in their fight to be Daddy’s No. 1. It was all very “Buddenbrooks,” by way of “Veep.”

The end of the second season seemed to signal a potential sea change. A congressional investigation into a coverup of sexual assaults at Waystar had necessitated a fall guy. “The Incans, in times of terrible crises, would sacrifice a child to the sun,” Logan told Kendall, who agreed to assume culpability for the scandals in order to stabilize the company. But, when it came time to do so, Kendall ditched his prepared remarks and announced that his father was a “malignant presence,” fully responsible for the ample wrongdoing at Waystar. It was time for heroic earnestness, clean hands, corporate oversight. Was the boy, at long last, becoming a man? Was Logan, as Shiv wonders to Roman, “toast”? (cont.)

by Anonymousreply 276November 15, 2021 5:50 PM

Great episode, and clearly shows how none of the kids have any clue as to how businesses are run. The adults in the room - Geri, Frank, Karl - know what to do, though are hogtied to Logan for any permission to make a move.

And did anyone else think that Stewey didn't want this to go to a vote? Was he worried he'd lose?

I'd love Greg to finally stand up to "Gramps" and tell him that he's exactly what he accuses Logan of being, and his passive/aggressiveness toward Greg is as pathetic as his own derogatory comments about his brother. Grow some balls Greg! BTW, Nicholas Braun nails his character in every single scene!

by Anonymousreply 277November 15, 2021 5:53 PM

(cont.) As if. Season 3 might not open with Kendall rapping, but, in many ways, we’re right back at the beginning. His Judas moment made for a great cliffhanger, but he doesn’t have a real plan for overthrowing Logan that wouldn’t also result in the Roys losing the company altogether. The first few episodes take place in the days leading up to a shareholders’ meeting, which will determine whether Waystar is to remain in family hands. (This mirrors Season 1, whose first half worked toward a board meeting foretelling a potential company upset.) The prospect of a D.O.J. investigation looms. Still, not an awful lot happens. Logan, who is holed up in Sarajevo in order to guard against extradition, continues to shuffle his underlings like cards, picking one and then another as potential successors and also as possible prison-bound scapegoats. The oft-whispered question “Is it me?” might refer to either role, and though the former is obviously better, the latter has its advantages. In one amazing moment, when Tom suggests to Shiv that he should offer himself as the fall guy, his wife calls the idea “punchy,” saying that it will “bank gold” with Logan.

Kendall lands a couple of victories, including securing the star defense attorney Lisa Arthur (Sanaa Lathan), whom Logan is vying for, too. (Her choice is a bad omen for Logan: according to Shiv, Lisa “fucking loves winning, and she loves money.”) But even as Lisa urges Kendall to focus on getting his story straight in order to avoid indictment, he is much more interested in politicking with his siblings, the only people, besides his father, whose opinions he truly cares about. (It is as if all his ideas about staging a corporate takeover stem from having watched a TV show like “Succession.”) During a secret meeting, which, in a nice, infantilizing touch, takes place in Kendall’s tween daughter’s bedroom, he nearly persuades his siblings to team up with him against their father. They demur only when they realize that Kendall, just like Logan, won’t give up the prize of being C.E.O.

In the hands of less able custodians, this kind of narrative rehashing would become bland, but as I watched the new season it felt as if “Succession” were becoming more pleasurably itself with every episode, drilling down even deeper into its core as a study of the human thirst for domination. With its sweeping canvas and cinematic feel, the series has all the trappings of an HBO drama, and it is often compared to “The Sopranos,” another show that documented seasons-long power struggles. The more apt comparison, however, might be a sitcom. There are times when the series feels almost Seinfeldian in its cyclical efforts to capture a group of eccentric, petty characters as they try, again and again, to one-up one another.

In the hands of less able custodians, this kind of narrative rehashing would become bland, but as I watched the new season it felt as if “Succession” were becoming more pleasurably itself with every episode, drilling down even deeper into its core as a study of the human thirst for domination. With its sweeping canvas and cinematic feel, the series has all the trappings of an HBO drama, and it is often compared to “The Sopranos,” another show that documented seasons-long power struggles. The more apt comparison, however, might be a sitcom. There are times when the series feels almost Seinfeldian in its cyclical efforts to capture a group of eccentric, petty characters as they try, again and again, to one-up one another. (cont.)

by Anonymousreply 278November 15, 2021 5:55 PM

(cont.) What makes any good sitcom work is an ability to repeat itself with small differences. Kendall is still a wimp who swings between self-satisfaction and an insatiable hunger for reassurance, and Strong is fantastic in his portrayal of this back-and-forth. But in Season 3 he fashions himself as a woke warrior, which opens up new satirical avenues for the show. “Fuck the patriarchy,” this patriarch manqué shouts at the press on his way into a charity gala. “Another life is possible, brother,” he tells Tom, urging him to leave Logan’s camp. (“Fuck you, plastic Jesus,” Shiv tells Kendall at one point, hitting the nail on the head.) He is also obsessed with tracking the public’s response to his newfound reputation as a whistle-blower, asking Greg to “slide the sociopolitical thermometer up the nation’s ass and take a reading.” The hapless sidekick checks Twitter and notes that Kendall is “the No. 1 trending topic, ahead of Tater Tots.”

Later, Shiv, whom Logan appoints as Waystar’s president, gives a speech at a company town hall to reassure employees that a new chapter of corporate responsibility has begun. “I’m here to tell you: we get it,” she says, as we watch a company flack in the audience mouth the words along with her. As Shiv goes on, her voice is drowned out by Nirvana’s “Rape Me,” emerging from a speaker that Kendall has placed above the auditorium. The Gen X grunge anthem is intended as a righteous signal of alliance with the women who’d suffered at the hands of Waystar, but it comes off as a cheap gimmick, an act of solidarity that is just as canned as Shiv’s largely decorative role. (As Kendall tells her, “Girls count double now, didn’t you know? It’s only your teats that give you any value.”)

“Succession” doesn’t offer any true liberal alternatives to the conservative monolith that is Waystar. All attempts to undermine Logan’s empire are toothless, whether they take the form of rote jokes served on a late-night show called “The Disruption” (the host is played by the comedian Ziwe) or the vision of the company’s future that Kendall outlines to his siblings. (“Detoxify our brand and we can go supersonic.”) Even Shiv, who in previous seasons was portrayed as the progressive Roy, is easily enveloped in the company’s embrace. In “Succession,” ideological differences don’t matter. Arguably the biggest threat to Logan’s regime this season is a Noah Baumbach-vibes shareholder (Adrien Brody), who puts the C.E.O. to the test simply by taking him on an idyllic stroll. ♦

by Anonymousreply 279November 15, 2021 5:56 PM

I agree R274

by Anonymousreply 280November 15, 2021 6:09 PM

[quote] I thought that the episode was wildly funny.

Agreed. I’ve always considered this show a comedy, first and foremost. An evil puppet show. On that count, certainly, this episode delivered. Maybe it’s because I had to suffer through several years of my own tyrannical (in his own mind, anyway) father and his recurring UTIs, but I couldn’t stop laughing.

The battle between Logan/Sandy and Shiv/Sandi was like something out Monty Python or Ionesco.

by Anonymousreply 281November 15, 2021 6:19 PM

If you think of the show as a very well crafted hour long sitcom it is great. But I do get complaints that there isn't the same level of plot progression you would get in a The Wire, or Breaking Bad, or Mad Men etc.

by Anonymousreply 282November 15, 2021 6:26 PM

This show is a comedy...I laughed out loud during the most recent episode.

by Anonymousreply 283November 15, 2021 6:48 PM

It's amazing how incompetent all the major players in this show are. As I said to my husband last night, all companies are probably run this way, and that's why this country is as fucked up as it is.

by Anonymousreply 284November 15, 2021 6:52 PM

Greg wanting to sue Greenpeace was classic.

by Anonymousreply 285November 15, 2021 6:54 PM

Does the rabbit make a recovery? Or will it end up dead like the imaginary cat?

by Anonymousreply 286November 15, 2021 8:22 PM

Ha! I’m actually a little surprised the episode didn’t end with a rabbit being thrown in the trash.

by Anonymousreply 287November 15, 2021 8:52 PM

Karl calling Roman "Tony Tourette's" was very funny.

by Anonymousreply 288November 15, 2021 11:36 PM

I love how Kendall's stutter/stammer gets more pronounced the more swagger he tries to put on. I wonderful that’s the actor or the script.

by Anonymousreply 289November 15, 2021 11:49 PM

R272, this show is a SATIRE. Jesse Armstrong described it as such. And so Connor actually running for president (with Shiv dragged in to manage his campaign) is highly probable. Armstrong wouldn’t continue making this a focal point of Connor’s existence on the canvas without following through. And he will.

by Anonymousreply 290November 16, 2021 3:22 AM

Stewy definitely didn't want it to go to a vote. Exactly who would they have offered as an alternative management slate, since Sandy Furness -- the media brains/bizarro Logan -- is now incapacitated? Rhea Jarrell?

by Anonymousreply 291November 16, 2021 3:22 AM

I'm really impressed with so many of you, with your knowledge of details from past episodes. So, my question is, when did they mention Sandy being incapacitated? This episode was the first I knew about it, when I saw him in the wheelchair. Obviously, I missed it before this.

by Anonymousreply 292November 16, 2021 3:29 AM

Sandy's syphilis is first mentioned by Rhea to Nan Pierce during the dinner in Tern Haven, R292, and is referenced later in Argestes.

by Anonymousreply 293November 16, 2021 3:35 AM

His syphilis must have rapidly progressed. The last time we saw him in S2, he showed no signs of being near a vegetative state that he's in now.

by Anonymousreply 294November 16, 2021 3:38 AM

[quote]R272, this show is a SATIRE. Jesse Armstrong described it as such. And so Connor actually running for president (with Shiv dragged in to manage his campaign) is highly probable. Armstrong wouldn’t continue making this a focal point of Connor’s existence on the canvas without following through. And he will.

Yes, and then Megan Draper will re-appear on this show, but as an industrial spy!

by Anonymousreply 295November 16, 2021 3:40 AM

It’s the bad writing catching up with them. When you keep repeating the sane plot you stop caring about continuity. The whole Adrien Brody story was a glorified cameo.

by Anonymousreply 296November 16, 2021 3:42 AM

I agree. It reminds me of those glorified cameo appearances on Empire.

by Anonymousreply 297November 16, 2021 3:44 AM

[quote]His syphilis must have rapidly progressed.

It's the Myspace of STDs.

Someone said that Adrian Brody was in the episode last night in one of the shots of the shareholders, but I watched the episode twice and didn't see him.

by Anonymousreply 298November 16, 2021 3:46 AM

You can see Adrien Brody when Frank first takes the stage and there is a shot of the crowd from Frank's perspective onstage. Brody's character, Josh Aaronson, is seated behind Ewan Roy/James Cromwell.

by Anonymousreply 299November 16, 2021 3:55 AM

He has syphilis? I thought they were joking when it was first mentioned.

by Anonymousreply 300November 16, 2021 11:34 AM

This is weird, because an eldergay I know just disclosed that he had been treated for syphilis lately. He’s okay, but I couldn’t believe people still get it.

by Anonymousreply 301November 16, 2021 11:59 AM

I saw Brody's name in the credits but didn't notice him on the show.

by Anonymousreply 302November 16, 2021 12:36 PM

I thought the syphilis was a joke too - I figured he had ALS or something similar to that. Wouldn’t syphilis have messed with him mentally/intellectually?

by Anonymousreply 303November 16, 2021 12:47 PM

R295, that was a ridiculous analogy.

Nice try, though, thanks for playing.

by Anonymousreply 304November 16, 2021 2:32 PM

Crew friend told me that Brody was CGI’d into that audience shot. The shareholder’s meeting was shot in February and Brody shot his role in April. So Brody shot his reactions in front of a green screen.

by Anonymousreply 305November 16, 2021 2:34 PM

I do think Connor will run for President but I don’t think Shiv will be his campaign manager.

by Anonymousreply 306November 16, 2021 2:36 PM

I’d love to see a Con/Greg team-up.

by Anonymousreply 307November 16, 2021 2:39 PM

Makes sense r305. They aren't going to have Adrien Brody stand with some extras all day for a blink and you miss it cameo. They use a stand in for him and then a quick CGI to show he is present.

by Anonymousreply 308November 16, 2021 2:41 PM

Mad Magazine presents ... "Sucks-session." The story of Paystub Doyco and its monstrous founder, Gorgon Doy; His Three Sons -- Cameron (get it?) Doy, Mental Doy and Hormone Doy; his daughter and favorite, Shove Doy, and her hapless husband Dumb Swampgas; and don't forget Cousin Legs!

by Anonymousreply 309November 16, 2021 2:48 PM

Do we know how Ewan (James Cromwell) got all his money. Did he and Logan inherit some? Did he make it independently of Logan? Was he initially in business with his brother? Did he get his money FROM his brother?

For someone so disdainful of Waystar/Royco, it’s interesting that he owns stock in it.

by Anonymousreply 310November 16, 2021 2:58 PM

Like a lot of the backstory of these characters, , r310, they seem to have kept those details intentionally fuzzy. The likeliest scenario to me is that the original Royco was some kind of family business in which Logan and Ewan had an equal stake -- meaning that Logan is probably responsible for Ewan's massive wealth.

by Anonymousreply 311November 16, 2021 3:05 PM

Ewan and Logan were poor in Scotland and are entirely self-made.

by Anonymousreply 312November 16, 2021 3:20 PM

Ewan owns a lot of stock in Waystar r310, the company is the source of his wealth. Remember, Ewan even has a seat on the board.

So yes, he has always been inherently hypocritical.

by Anonymousreply 313November 16, 2021 3:26 PM

I’m kind of tired of Connor. I don’t like his storyline and he seems like a useless person.

by Anonymousreply 314November 16, 2021 3:44 PM

R312, the episode where they visit Logan's boyhood home shows they weren't that poor. The "poor self-made" thing is a schtick. They were born in a small but decent house in Scotland, and sent to live with a richer uncle in Canada. I'm betting the uncle is where Logan got the seed money to build his empire. So he wasn't entirely "self made" but wants the world to think so.

by Anonymousreply 315November 16, 2021 4:05 PM

[quote] I’m kind of tired of Connor.

Yes, but he makes a fun punchline. That scene where the President was calling and they were trying to figure out who was going to take the call (Karl, Frank, Gerri or Roman) and no one would even acknowledge Conner jumping up and down, grasping at the phone, was hilarious.

by Anonymousreply 316November 16, 2021 4:10 PM

The show excels in small stuff- some silent and observational moments, secondary/background characters. This last episode was full of them.

It does get sitcomy when the main characters attempt at broad and loud comedy. Roman's speaking and body language is a good example of repetitiveness and cliche many cite above.

by Anonymousreply 317November 16, 2021 4:10 PM

Kieran Culkin has a hot bubble butt.

by Anonymousreply 318November 16, 2021 4:21 PM

Roman is hilarious, but very mean many times. I do love it when the old lady talks him through to orgasm. It’s so twisted. And I think Shiv suspects something is going on.

by Anonymousreply 319November 16, 2021 4:21 PM

I agree that Shiv is suspicious about Roman/Geri. My guess is Shiv is going to put two and two together before anyone else and narc on them to Logan, out of desperation to better/solidify her position in the company. Logan won’t change his treatment of Shiv but will require Roman to do something hurtful to Geri to separate the two, maybe firing her from the company. Roman will face the choice of building his own adult life outside his dad, or ruining his relationship with Geri to continue sucking up to his dad, and will choose the latter. Shiv will be Charlie Brown with the football again. Kendall is permanently in the doghouse. Geri will be thrown out of the circle and exiled. Tom might be in jail. Greg will be off suing Greenpeace. Con will be off running for POTUS. And Logan will be back in charge of the company.

by Anonymousreply 320November 16, 2021 5:17 PM

I don’t see how Greg can sue Greenpeace until Ewan dies or makes a major donation. In real life, Ewan would leave Greg a small amount so Greg cannot challenge the estate,

by Anonymousreply 321November 16, 2021 5:21 PM

Greg would never sue Greenpeace--he's just casting about because he's so clueless about what he can and cannot do.

The weird thing is, though, that if Ewan has cut Greg out of his will entirely (as he says he did), he can no longer manipulate him anymore. You can only drop that on someone who wants money from you once, and then they'll shun you. He was able to get more mileage out of Greg only by dangling the promise of leaving him money.

by Anonymousreply 322November 16, 2021 5:26 PM

I was assuming Ewan’s estate planning is related to an oncoming death, but maybe he’s just being manipulative (which would make sense too given his use of Waystar stock to chide Logan).

by Anonymousreply 323November 16, 2021 5:27 PM

I don't get the impression that Ewan would care much if Greg "shuns" him.

by Anonymousreply 324November 16, 2021 5:28 PM

I do, because he enjoys tormenting him. Greg is apparently his only grandchild, and we've never been told what happened to Greg's father (I think), so who else does he have to bully?

by Anonymousreply 325November 16, 2021 5:36 PM

I love the show but want to see more man on man sex. I need more homosexual or bicurious scenes.

by Anonymousreply 326November 16, 2021 5:50 PM

I think Geri's doomed ....

by Anonymousreply 327November 16, 2021 5:58 PM

I really hope she's not, R327. The Gerri/Roman thing is one of the most interesting plot lines.

by Anonymousreply 328November 16, 2021 6:01 PM

I love Geri but I think she’s doomed too. We’ve seen Logan react poorly whenever he thinks she might get too comfortable in her position of power. If he finds out she’s fooling around with Roman I think he’ll try to destroy her.

by Anonymousreply 329November 16, 2021 6:07 PM

Gerri's alliance with Roman is probably the only significant dynamic that Logan is unaware of, though he seemed suspicious -- "what're you in for?" -- when Roman came around to talk to Gerri the night of the FBI raid in "The Disruption."

by Anonymousreply 330November 16, 2021 6:12 PM

"I think Geri's doomed ...."

Wasn't that made official at the end of the episode where Geri was made interim CEO? Logan spoke to Roman on the phone in the final scene of that episode, indicating to him not to worry about the CEO decision because they would make Geri the "fall guy" who would take the blame if everything fell part. Or did I misunderstand the final scene of that episode?

by Anonymousreply 331November 16, 2021 6:16 PM

I think that scene is ambiguous because Logan was speaking to Shiv about it, not Roman, to convince her to go along with Logan’s idea to give her the President title. We’ve seen him lie to Shiv many times before about what he’s giving her.

by Anonymousreply 332November 16, 2021 6:21 PM

Logan says that to Siobhan in the car on the way back from the airport, R331. Tom was in the front seat and presumably heard that, too. Roman is unaware.

by Anonymousreply 333November 16, 2021 6:29 PM

Has there been any Roman-Geri hanky panky since she was named CEO?

by Anonymousreply 334November 16, 2021 6:34 PM

If Gerri's doomed, they're all fucked. She's the only semi-competent person there. Logan has a toxic ego and a rotting body to match. Frank and Karl are only adept at weaseling out of things. And the kids are, well, the kids. Gerri is the sole capable adult in the room.

by Anonymousreply 335November 16, 2021 6:38 PM

We haven’t seen any Roman/Geri hijinks since she was named CEO, but Geri giving him a heads up that “I’m dating, you should be aware of that” made me think something more might be going on. Roman also looked a little shifty a couple weeks back when Logan came to the office at night to talk to him about the magazine article.

by Anonymousreply 336November 16, 2021 6:56 PM

Is Tabitha gone? I liked her too.

by Anonymousreply 337November 16, 2021 7:03 PM

I'm glad you said that R118. I really noticed that this week too, especially when you see him walking across the screen in the phone call with the president.

by Anonymousreply 338November 16, 2021 7:46 PM

^^ meant R318 ^^

by Anonymousreply 339November 16, 2021 7:47 PM

I love watching this show. They're all horrible people, and it makes me feel superior.

by Anonymousreply 340November 16, 2021 7:52 PM

R340 I read DL to feel superior.

by Anonymousreply 341November 16, 2021 7:55 PM

Yes, R337. I gather she doesn’t appear at all this season. But the actress who plays her is married to that Poldark stud Aidan Turner so I’m not singing sad songs for that bitch.

by Anonymousreply 342November 16, 2021 8:09 PM

R340 - You’ll fit in just fine here.

by Anonymousreply 343November 16, 2021 8:16 PM

I hope Connor’s prostitution whore ends up with cement boots, as was foreshadowed.

by Anonymousreply 344November 16, 2021 8:53 PM

I don't think we have seen Tabitha since breakfast the morning after in Tern Haven. The night of the dinner she'd she told Roman she was going into the bathroom to masturbate using her electric toothbrush after he couldn't muster any sexual enthusiasm for her.

by Anonymousreply 345November 16, 2021 10:31 PM

Oh, no, Tabitha did show up after that, in Dundee. But we haven't seen her since.

by Anonymousreply 346November 16, 2021 10:32 PM

Is tiny Roman supposed to be gay? He has no real sexual interest in women.

by Anonymousreply 347November 16, 2021 10:38 PM

R347 he's clearly a fucked up straight boy with mommy issues. He's never gone after a man onscreen

by Anonymousreply 348November 16, 2021 10:41 PM

Tabitha was at L to the OG.

by Anonymousreply 349November 16, 2021 10:47 PM

Roman did seem "familiar" with Lawrence from Vaulter's boyfriend when he had dinner with the two of them in season 1.

by Anonymousreply 350November 16, 2021 10:51 PM

I think Roman would be turned on by any authority figure willing to abuse him. For now, it happens to be Geri.

by Anonymousreply 351November 16, 2021 10:53 PM

[quote] Is tiny Roman supposed to be gay?

I see nothing substantial to indicate that so far. He seems to be heterosexual but mostly impotent, and there are indeed men like that in the world.

[quote] He has no real sexual interest in women.

That's not true. He can cum only (and will cum) when they verbally demean him, probably because of his monstrous mother. I don't think he can cum when engaged in simple intercourse, but that doesn't mean he has no real sexual interest in women.

by Anonymousreply 352November 16, 2021 11:22 PM

Can I ask for a moment to appreciate Jeannie Berlin's much too brief appearance? That woman is a national treasure! "It IS hard to believe!"

by Anonymousreply 353November 17, 2021 12:01 AM

I was hoping they would expand her character as I enjoyed her character's showdown with Tom in S2.

by Anonymousreply 354November 17, 2021 12:03 AM

I've had my face inside one of those Culkin bubble butts, and it wasn't Kieran's.

by Anonymousreply 355November 17, 2021 12:57 AM

Cyd (Jeannie Berlin) really runs ATN -- when Siobhan went to thumbscrew Ravenhead, Ravenhead's producer told Siobhan that he only discussed editorial with Logan or Cyd. What's Tom's role, then?

by Anonymousreply 356November 17, 2021 12:59 AM

Tom’s role is roughhousing with the young male employees.

by Anonymousreply 357November 17, 2021 1:13 AM

I watched maybe 4-5 of the first episodes of this show. Could never get into it. All the characters were total shits but unamusing shits. Does the series get better? I can't imagine slogging through another 2 years of this show with nothing but nasty asshole characters.

by Anonymousreply 358November 17, 2021 1:18 AM

[quote]but Geri giving him a heads up that “I’m dating, you should be aware of that” made me think something more might be going on.

I don't know, I got the complete opposite. She's been telling him to knock it off since the season began. It was one thing when she thought she might be maneuvering Roman into a better position so she could benefit, but right now I'm thinking she'd like to stay CEO for as long as she can, even with Logan's mercurial shenanigans. I think she's grown fond of Roman and is empathetic to his issues, hence her building him up to talk to the Raisin this episode, but I don't think she is in any way interested in having sex with him, or playing his mommy dom.

Also, no way would this show have Rome and Ger having sexy times off camera for us to find out about it later.

by Anonymousreply 359November 17, 2021 1:54 AM

I don't get posts like r358. Are we supposed to try to convince you to like it? Why would anyone here care whether you keep up with it or not?

by Anonymousreply 360November 17, 2021 1:55 AM

[quote] Why would anyone here care whether you keep up with it or not?

The poster is asking if it got any better. That's a fair question. I had the opposite reaction-- I thought it was interesting in the first few episodes but it's become less so as it wore on. I'm still watching it because I am interested in the plot. Now after episode 5 it feels like the plot is finally moving along. The hammy acting and relationships among the characters don't interest me very much. If we end up in another three episodes of the siblings saying "uh" to each other, I might bail.

by Anonymousreply 361November 17, 2021 2:01 AM

[quote]The poster is asking if it got any better. That's a fair question.

It’s also highly subjective. Most critics loved the first episodes, as did I. If the poster didn’t like them, I’d say he might as well quit watching.

by Anonymousreply 362November 17, 2021 2:06 AM

Obviously it's subjective. The thread is for discussing subjective thoughts about the show. I read the thread to see if anyone shares my opinion, not because I love every single thing about the show or expect others to.

by Anonymousreply 363November 17, 2021 2:09 AM

I did not like the Succession pilot actually. It took a few episodes for the show to grow on me, I still think the pilot is one of their weakest episodes.

by Anonymousreply 364November 17, 2021 2:44 AM

R358 - Hang in there; it does get better. It’s not “House of Cards” level greatness, but it’s very, very good television.

by Anonymousreply 365November 17, 2021 2:47 AM

It wasn't until S2 and the introduction of the Pierce family and Rhea Jarrell that I became a fan of the show. I still have issues with the circular plot, but it's, without a doubt, the best series on television right now.

by Anonymousreply 366November 17, 2021 2:55 AM

Logan can place his nepotism beneficiaries wherever he wants r356, but real respect has to be earned. I appreciated that little line showing how the people of ATN really don't respect Tom's authority.

It was the same with Karl and Frank with Shiv, sure Logan annoited her President but they clearly didn't really respect her authority.

by Anonymousreply 367November 17, 2021 2:56 AM

“It’s not “House of Cards” level greatness“


by Anonymousreply 368November 17, 2021 4:28 AM

I think the show is veering towards the ridiculous. Too repetitive, too many preposterous subplots, too many dropped plots that go nowhere, and too much fucking ad libbing. Like seriously, Roman needs to stop with all the cute side riffs, he is trying to damn hard.

The whole Gerry story is a good example of where things are going off the rails. Gerry is a character, she is not a lead and the actress, while perfectly serviceable, cannot carry this type of role.

This show seemed like it was on the cusp of breaking out at the end of season two, and I know that Covid got in the way and interrupted the momentum, but season three so far feels like a real missed opportunity to me.

by Anonymousreply 369November 17, 2021 4:38 AM

A piece by The Guardian predicting the stasis of the plot this season suggests a huge catastrophe will come by the end of the season. I don't know whether I buy it, but it's an interesting prediction.


e are now more than halfwaythrough Succession’s third run. It remains a staggeringly brilliant show; an ice-cold snake pit of ever shifting loyalties, flecked with some of the most giddily baroque dialogue we have heard since Deadwood. Every episode is a thrill. And yet, if you were forced to explain exactly what has happened so far this season, chances are you would struggle.

Because, really, what has happened? The season began with the fallout from Kendall’s unexpected public broadside against his father and, well, notwithstanding the FBI investigation, that is still where we are. Logan is stuck in a holding pattern of gruff plotting. Shiv and Tom’s marriage remains in a holding pattern full stop. Shiv and Roman are still bickering with one another. The only real movement from anyone this season has come from Kendall and his growing messiah complex. At this point, there is little need for HBO’s nicely packaged Previously on Succession pre-roll montages, because we all know what happened in the last episode. It was the same as the episode before that, and the episode before that.

And yet we keep watching, and I think I know why. My theory is that something is coming. Something huge and dark and awful. Something that Succession won’t be able to reset the clock on. My theory is that all this stasis is deliberate, that season three of Succession is testing our patience because a killer blow is about to rocket out of nowhere and leave us all permanently winded.

I don’t think I’m alone in noticing a small, but growing, amount of dread. Remember season five of Mad Men, where Don Draper suddenly found himself surrounded by images of death? Nooses were drawn in margins, lift doors opened to reveal nothing but long dark elevator shafts, record players had the same dimensions as coffins. Every conversation, no matter how mundane, felt like it existed explicitly to foreshadow something hideous. This is how I feel about season three of Succession. And let’s not forget, in the penultimate episode of Mad Men’s fifth season, Lane Pryce killed himself. (cont.)

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by Anonymousreply 370November 17, 2021 5:16 AM

(cont.) The darkness at the heart of Succession, always present, if sometimes played for laughs, has decayed and expanded. The Roy siblings, who always managed to retain a loose bond despite their bickering, have been torn apart. Hypnotised by the promise of wealth and power, they have irreparably turned on each other. They are all twisting in the wind, quicker to anger and closer to acting upon their worst impulses. Kendall’s bond with his children has all but vanished. Shiv is sleepwalking through an unhappy marriage. Logan’s health, too, is on the decline. If season one of Succession was about overcoming your dislike of these characters, and season two was about feeling sorry for them, am starting to believe that season three is where we are actively supposed to start worrying about their future.

At this point, it is an open secret that we are now in the back half of Succession. In an interview with the Times last month, the show’s creator Jesse Armstrong noted that “there is a certain promise in the title”, and said that viewers might feel cheated if the show kept spinning its wheels for ever. Brian Cox, too, admitted that there are only either one or two seasons left. So the series is definitely building to something. Right now, the uneventful first half of season three feels like the start of a velodrome race. The characters are moving tentatively, taking their time to feel each other out. Before we know it, someone will make a decisive lunge for glory. And then, God knows, all hell will break loose.

We’re getting closer and closer to that moment. I haven’t been given access to the full season of Succession yet, so I don’t know if my theory is right, but I am a few episodes ahead of broadcast. One upcoming episode, I won’t say which, is so completely drenched in the sense of impending doom that it’s like watching a horror movie. The shadow of catastrophe looms so heavily over every scene that I sat through it with my stomach in knots. I watched it with my wife who, when it finished, remarked that the entire episode was like watching the first 20 minutes of Casualty. We might not know when or where, or how or to whom, but I’ll be amazed if we get to the end of Succession season three without something truly awful happening. Don’t say I didn’t warn you.

Succession season three airs on Sky Atlantic/Now in the UK and HBO in the US.

by Anonymousreply 371November 17, 2021 5:16 AM

369, agreed, this season so far is a disappointment. Kendall can't come back from this or ever be back in the fold. His character is done. I'm surprised they haven't focused more on how pathetic he/Waystar looked to the public during all this. In past seasons there was more of that, such as the focus on the stock price tanking and the horrific magazine profiles. This year it was just 'that guy on the island who layers too much has a problem with this'. There should have been more Stewy just laughing at them this year. Not sure why he folded, even if he'd partnered with the cranky vegetable - the Roys are pathetic and STILL don't have any semblance of a succession plan. I hope they're not done with Stewy, he's a great character. The article is probably right, they need a disaster to right the ship and the lack of plot development. But I am here for the Connor presidency.

by Anonymousreply 372November 17, 2021 1:07 PM

Aspergers-- alive and well!

by Anonymousreply 373November 17, 2021 1:11 PM

I don't have a good feeling about Kendall, for sure. And yes: MORE Stewy!!!! Yikes, he's HOT!!!!

by Anonymousreply 374November 17, 2021 1:21 PM

Lady Caroline is back for the last 2 episodes (per IMDB). Surely she'll fix everything.

by Anonymousreply 375November 17, 2021 1:31 PM

The return of Lady Caroline in upcoming episodes makes me think Kendall will commit suicide; there just is no way back for his character & he's not exactly a "I'm going to take my riches & go live in the desert" type like Connor. He's alienated everyone & his father & stepmother have a very big axe hanging over his head.

by Anonymousreply 376November 17, 2021 1:54 PM

Yeah it does seem like they're building to a Kendall suicide or OD.

by Anonymousreply 377November 17, 2021 2:52 PM

They aren't going to kill off Kendall. What type of show do people think this is.

by Anonymousreply 378November 17, 2021 2:57 PM

Well, people have been bitching about the show being stuck in neutral; that will surely change things up to kill off a major character and leave the remaining characters coping with the fallout.

by Anonymousreply 379November 17, 2021 3:10 PM

I would love to see a struggle between Kendall and Roman with a firearm and the gun going off. That is how the episode would end, not knowing who, if anyone, got shot.

by Anonymousreply 380November 17, 2021 3:30 PM

[quote]They aren't going to kill off Kendall. What type of show do people think this is.

Don't ask.

by Anonymousreply 381November 17, 2021 3:31 PM

Yeah I don't really see it as a stretch to think they'd kill off Kendall. The character has been in a death spiral of sorts essentially since the very first episode of the series, and the last couple episodes have clearly been trying to convey that he's "not OK."

by Anonymousreply 382November 17, 2021 3:36 PM

Kendall is a damaged drug addict. He’s an absentee father and a selfish partner. He’ll never be well adjusted with all the expensive therapy in the world. He needs to commit suicide and do the world a favor.

by Anonymousreply 383November 17, 2021 3:39 PM

[quote] The characters are moving tentatively, taking their time to feel each other out. Before we know it, someone will make a decisive lunge for glory. And then, God knows, all hell will break loose.


by Anonymousreply 384November 17, 2021 3:56 PM

Lady Caroline is probably the one who’s getting married in Italy.

by Anonymousreply 385November 17, 2021 4:00 PM

I still maintain that if anyone gets killed off it will be Connor. Maybe he’ll be assassinated during his campaign by a disgruntled Conhead. Or a dumped Willa.

by Anonymousreply 386November 17, 2021 4:16 PM

Ideally I’d like to see everyone die in the finale, except for Greg and Tom. The family would be all together traveling in the private jet when it goes down. Tom and Greg would be having a meeting when the news flashed on CNN, and would look at each other, knowingly grin, and high five. Did they know something, or did they not? We’ll never know.

by Anonymousreply 387November 17, 2021 4:34 PM

I hope R380 is being sarcastic.

by Anonymousreply 388November 17, 2021 4:54 PM

Well, Logan should go at some point based on what this show is about. There is just no way this ends with him somehow surviving.

by Anonymousreply 389November 17, 2021 5:20 PM

Did the actress who played Shiv get breast implants? Her boobs looked HUGE in this episode in that constrictive beige blouse. Why are her clothes always so tight?

by Anonymousreply 390November 17, 2021 5:20 PM

R390 Sarah Snook - who plays Shiv - stacked on some Covid kilos during lockdown.

by Anonymousreply 391November 17, 2021 5:38 PM

[quote]Kendall is a damaged drug addict. He’s an absentee father and a selfish partner. He’ll never be well adjusted with all the expensive therapy in the world. He needs to commit suicide and do the world a favor.

If the show mirrors "King Lear", (and one assumes Kendall is Cordelia...a stretch, I know), Kendall and Logan will find a way to come together in an effort to save the company, only to have Kendall commit suicide (or did he?), really sending Logan over the edge. But given his many issues - AND that he killed someone - it's hard to see where the character goes from here.

by Anonymousreply 392November 17, 2021 6:42 PM

And if it mirrors “Hamlet,” everybody dies.

by Anonymousreply 393November 17, 2021 7:22 PM

I think Naomi (the Ophelia of this show) will get dumped by Kendall and she’ll either go nuts or die of an overdose.

by Anonymousreply 394November 17, 2021 7:25 PM

Mark Strong won the Emmy for best actor and won’t die as a plot point, this isn’t Six Feet Under.

by Anonymousreply 395November 17, 2021 7:38 PM

Mark Strong is on this show r395 I missed him, it must be time for a rewatch!

But yes, the idea that this show would kill off Jeremy Strong is patently absurd to me.

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by Anonymousreply 396November 17, 2021 7:45 PM

Woof. Mark Strong is one hot limey daddy.

by Anonymousreply 397November 17, 2021 8:08 PM

Jeffery Strong is not Mark Strong, newsflash.

by Anonymousreply 398November 17, 2021 8:13 PM

No one dies. There’s a wild plot twist at the end, and we’re left hanging with a series of ambiguities. I don’t see ANY way they could tie this series up neatly.

by Anonymousreply 399November 17, 2021 8:43 PM

I would end it like this: after all the children destroy themselves in various ways fighting for Logan’s attention,* Logan finally dies, and some nameless exec outside of the family circle takes over his throne. Kind of an Ozymandias ending.

*My guesses would be: Kendall dying by suicide (maybe after a Naomi OD), Shiv alienating Tom permanently and poisoning her reputation publicly by assisting Con’s presidential bid, Roman ruining his relationship with Geri, Con doing something embarrassing while running for President

by Anonymousreply 400November 17, 2021 8:50 PM

Actually, I think rather than having Logan die, it would be more poetic justice to have him suffer a debilitating stoke, not unlike Joe Kennedy, while his family and empire falls apart and he's forced to sit there & watch it unravel. Not exactly compelling TV, but the kind of end Logan deserves

by Anonymousreply 401November 17, 2021 9:46 PM

The Ludovico Technique

by Anonymousreply 402November 17, 2021 9:53 PM

In the season finale, the family heads to Moldavia for a wedding. I don’t want to post spoilers, but I hear there’s going to be a massacre.

by Anonymousreply 403November 17, 2021 10:02 PM

Lady Caroline is already married, I believe. Isn't her husband Rory?

[quote]Well, people have been bitching about the show being stuck in neutral; that will surely change things up to kill off a major character and leave the remaining characters coping with the fallout.

I am inclined to think the writers would go with killing off Logan way before they would ever consider killing off Kendall. As Jesse Armstrong noted in the article above, the "promise in the title" surely means that Logan will die at some point leaving his kids to fight over who will succeed him.

by Anonymousreply 404November 17, 2021 10:21 PM

I want to see more of Lady Caroline’s “cooking.” It’s a good class/cultural contrast to the Shellfish Flaunting from the episode before last.

by Anonymousreply 405November 17, 2021 10:54 PM

I’m confused, did the bunny live or die?

by Anonymousreply 406November 17, 2021 11:15 PM

R406 see r405

Lapin a la Cocotte

by Anonymousreply 407November 17, 2021 11:25 PM

The bunny is touch and go, the psychosis-induced cat under Logan’s chair was dead.

by Anonymousreply 408November 17, 2021 11:27 PM

So, at present it’s a case of Schrodinger’s Bunny, it is neither dead or alive?

by Anonymousreply 409November 17, 2021 11:30 PM

Greg to Tom: “Are you trying to seduce me?”

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by Anonymousreply 410November 17, 2021 11:57 PM

[quote]She is brilliant at concise, cutting commentary—the Pierce dinner party, the STD comment to Holly Hunter, “your fucking kids,” etc.

Or telling Nan Pierce that Logan's wine cellar is all "New World". We need more Marcia.

by Anonymousreply 411November 18, 2021 12:37 AM

You can't make a tomlette without breaking some greggs

by Anonymousreply 412November 18, 2021 1:07 AM

[quote] I would love to see a struggle between Kendall and Roman with a firearm and the gun going off. That is how the episode would end, not knowing who, if anyone, got shot.

But just WHO. SHOT. WHO?

by Anonymousreply 413November 18, 2021 1:17 AM

I don't doubt at all that this show would show either Logan or Kendall (or both) dying before its end.

If Kendall did fling himself off a skyscraper to do it, though, I would think the writing so painfully obvious I would stop watching

by Anonymousreply 414November 18, 2021 1:19 AM

R410 Hahahaha

by Anonymousreply 415November 18, 2021 2:19 AM

No, R404, Lady Caroline isn’t married to Rory. And maybe she’s not even necessarily marrying Rory.

by Anonymousreply 416November 18, 2021 2:56 AM

What is wrong with these people? Why can’t they just run their own little businesses or take up painting or something? Why do they ALL want to run Royco?

by Anonymousreply 417November 18, 2021 3:48 AM

“Like a Tom Sundae with a little Greg cherry on top.”

by Anonymousreply 418November 18, 2021 4:58 AM

[quote]I've had my face inside one of those Culkin bubble butts, and it wasn't Kieran's.

I can't believe you're all letting r355 get away with dropping this and running.

by Anonymousreply 419November 21, 2021 4:46 AM

I figured it was either Rory or one of the lesser known brothers, but I've not seen how pert their butts are enough to comment.

by Anonymousreply 420November 21, 2021 3:16 PM

Well R419, if a poster doesn’t provide at least a name the post is meaningless and they are most likely making it up.

by Anonymousreply 421November 21, 2021 3:23 PM

Any predictions for tonight? I listened to Emily VDW on a Succession podcast and she said that this episode will be very Shiv heavy and that something happens that really serves as a payoff to the last one. I'm looking forward to it.

I was watching some of S2 last night and Rhea Jarrell really did capture the Roy kids perfected in her assessed rundown to Logan.

by Anonymousreply 422November 21, 2021 3:30 PM

It’s odd, I forgot about Succession this week. Usually I’m looking forward to the episode a little more. I’d like to see a little more personal drama this episode to balance out the business focus of the last two episodes.

by Anonymousreply 423November 21, 2021 3:43 PM

[quote] What is wrong with these people? Why can’t they just run their own little businesses or take up painting or something? Why do they ALL want to run Royco?

Why do so many of the Murdoch children want to run The News Corporation?

For the same reason: their father raised them to be hypercompetitive with one another, and they think winning is the only way to gain his love.

by Anonymousreply 424November 21, 2021 4:13 PM

Tonight’s the episode set at a Republican “presidential selection” conference. The interiors were shot in the Plaza Hotel in NY and the exteriors at the Jefferson Hotel in Richmond VA where it’s set.

by Anonymousreply 425November 21, 2021 5:04 PM

Also in tonight’s episode, Roman finds out surprising news about his mother.

by Anonymousreply 426November 21, 2021 7:25 PM

Short promo video of tonight’s episode

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 427November 21, 2021 7:32 PM

Oh, Mama, get married today!

by Anonymousreply 428November 21, 2021 9:27 PM

Maybe something will happen.


by Anonymousreply 429November 21, 2021 11:00 PM

The actress playing Shiv will make faces and say "uh huh." People will sit in rooms and have conversations that go in circles.

by Anonymousreply 430November 21, 2021 11:02 PM

Sorry there’s not much action for you R429 and R430.

Perhaps you’ll find a nice shoot-em-up film to watch instead, or some episodes of Three’s Company.

by Anonymousreply 431November 21, 2021 11:12 PM

I heard that this episode’s working title was “Surprise Anal” but the writers decided to change it so as not to ruin the surprise.

by Anonymousreply 432November 22, 2021 1:28 AM

"It's just like throwing cake batter at a brick wall..."


by Anonymousreply 433November 22, 2021 1:33 AM

This week’s cut a little too close to home politically. Tom looked lovely and so despondent by the end that I thought he was going to walk back to the hotel and kill himself.

Kendall is a moron. Con is a moron. Shiv is a spineless moron. Roman is poisoned inside (and worse, instead of Roman eye-fucking Geri we got him eye-fucking Tom Cotton, nasty.)

The Coke reminded me of Mad Men,

by Anonymousreply 434November 22, 2021 2:12 AM

This episode made me a little nauseous. For the first time ever, I don't think I'll be rewatching it.

by Anonymousreply 435November 22, 2021 2:12 AM

There was incredible sexual chemistry between Mencken and Roman. I was sure we were going to see the former fuck the latter onscreen.

by Anonymousreply 436November 22, 2021 2:16 AM

By far the best episode of the season. The plot has finally left the holding pattern.

by Anonymousreply 437November 22, 2021 2:19 AM

I was laughing thinking of the poster this week who requested more homosexual energy - you got it! And then there was Roman fake-blowing his father and losing his shit over his mother getting remarried. It’s all coming up Roman.

What happened to Geri, though? No one even mentioned her.

by Anonymousreply 438November 22, 2021 2:20 AM

Well, at least something finally happened tonight. Who knew the family could become even more evil?

I thought it was hilarious Tom was referred to as Shiv's "trophy husband."

by Anonymousreply 439November 22, 2021 2:24 AM

Kendall has gone fully off the rails.

by Anonymousreply 440November 22, 2021 2:25 AM

I was pleased to see Justin Kirk in this episode and I think he played his role to perfection.

by Anonymousreply 441November 22, 2021 2:26 AM

I had no idea Justin Kirk was so good. He made Menken's sleazy-evil seem hot.

by Anonymousreply 442November 22, 2021 2:29 AM

I did not realize that was Justin Kirk, damn!

by Anonymousreply 443November 22, 2021 2:31 AM

Pretty shitty of Kendall to take Tom’s picture after their meeting.

by Anonymousreply 444November 22, 2021 2:34 AM

I have loved Justin Kirk since Angels in America. It's great seeing in a role that he can sink his teeth into.

by Anonymousreply 445November 22, 2021 2:35 AM

I keep hoping Marcia will show up and read Kerry for filth.

by Anonymousreply 446November 22, 2021 2:42 AM

The scene with tiny Roman and handsome Mencken in the bathroom was good. I thought they were going to have sex.

Poor Shiv always gets shat on.

by Anonymousreply 447November 22, 2021 2:50 AM

I sympathized with Shiv trying to get Logan to care about racism and fascism and getting less and less persuasive as she went. But her problem is she decided to stick with a family of soulless bastards. When will she realize her dad only cares about himself?

by Anonymousreply 448November 22, 2021 2:53 AM

So... I too am always happy to see Justin Kirk show up. He is an HBO go-to, I think, as he was in a small but critical role in Perry Mason too. I felt like Menken is supposed to be a Noah Hawley- type? But also, as much as Shiv has every right to loathe the guy, and I would have been as vociferous and adamant that he was a terrible pick and that he was even worse for America, I also got the very strong sense that she and Menken have history. Am I alone in this? Like, she didn't even want to stand next to him. You couldn't get me to stand next to Hawley either, because I would puke on him, but Shiv had no problem being a thug for her dad in the last episode. I was surprised to see her and Roman at Ken's birthday party for the next episode, but again, I think something is going to go really wrong there.

by Anonymousreply 449November 22, 2021 2:54 AM

Meh. How much more of this? I do love this show, I’ll never stop watching, but there is a definite issue with the pace this season, just my humble opinion.

by Anonymousreply 450November 22, 2021 2:56 AM

So I guess something “happened” this week but the show remained fairly dull and rote. Greg wrings his hands. Tom worries about prison. Kendall loses. Logan tells someone to fuck off. Shiv smirks. Roman uses a foggy “retard” voice and mocks their preceding spoken sentence. Logan’s assistant with bangs is the new Marcia.

On the upside Justin Kirk looks good with grey hair.

by Anonymousreply 451November 22, 2021 3:07 AM

The episode title (“What It Takes”) is the name of one of the greatest political books ever, about the candidates for the party nominations in the 1988 race for President.

by Anonymousreply 452November 22, 2021 3:08 AM

I would not be surprised if Roman and Menken have sex. Who moisturizes their hands for three minutes in an opulent bathroom with another guy unless they're down to fuck.

by Anonymousreply 453November 22, 2021 3:18 AM

I will add that I do find Tom’s obsession to be hilarious. I volunteer in a county jail, and it is actually true that prison culture rubs off on you, do watching Tom tap into his inner gangsta’/thug is fucking funny because that’s what actually happens to people. When he told Greg he reads all the prison blogs, I busted up laughing.

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by Anonymousreply 454November 22, 2021 3:18 AM

I liked how completely horrified Kendall was at the ease and directness of Tom’s Denny’s, or IHOP or where ever breakfast order.

by Anonymousreply 455November 22, 2021 3:44 AM

If the mythical papers weren't all that damaging, why were they targeted for destruction to begin with? And why would Greg be able to use them to blackmail Tom in season 2?

by Anonymousreply 456November 22, 2021 3:46 AM

The Greg storyline is not very thought out. It’s never clear if he has any documents or who else has them. Kendall is just going off heresy and doesn’t have any documents, unless I missed something. Tom will not do prison time so I don’t know where that story is going. It’s all build up with no payoff and Kendall is making a fool of himself.

by Anonymousreply 457November 22, 2021 3:57 AM

Kendall does have documents, though, R457; Lisa Arthur's team was jigsawing them. But they don't appear to be the slam-dunk everyone seemed to think, or which Kendall led Lisa to believe.

Wouldn't the company's cruise division be in free-fall right now?

Logan had also offered the Stewy people a strategic review of the company on terms co-set by them as part of the proxy settlement, which seems like it would be a pretty major inconvenience, to say the least.

by Anonymousreply 458November 22, 2021 4:03 AM

Lisa Arthur's team was jigsawing all the documents that Waystar was flooding them with now that they were cooperating, I thought. That's what Kendall was freaking out about.

by Anonymousreply 459November 22, 2021 4:05 AM

They have alluded to all the bad documents being destroyed except the copies Greg has.

by Anonymousreply 460November 22, 2021 4:07 AM

Greg is going to win the long game. There's no other reason for him to be mixed in with the primary family plotwise.

I had a glimmer of hope Shiv's conscience was going to get the better of her.

I loved this show for a while but it is getting old watching the family members vie for power. Despite the threat to the company, nothing new is happening. They just keep tossing around their power like a hot potato. So they're going to choose the next POTUS. That should feel like a big deal, but we know that in this show, the POTUS is relatively irrelevant and just a pawn, so that doesn't feel like it has any stakes.

For how long is the show's plot going to be "who will take over?" It needs to find some other raison d'être.

by Anonymousreply 461November 22, 2021 9:01 AM

R461, With Logan around, it will always run in circles. They need to get rid off him in some way to move the plot. I think it will happen at the end of this season. This year they are laying the ground for "shit to hit the fan" with siblings being torn apart further away from each other.

by Anonymousreply 462November 22, 2021 10:02 AM

It was a little odd they cast Reed Birney as the VP given he already played a different fictional VP on House of Cards.

by Anonymousreply 463November 22, 2021 1:20 PM

Isn’t Logan pulling a “build him up to tear him down” thing with Mencken? After what he overheard Mencken say about him and ATN?

by Anonymousreply 464November 22, 2021 1:29 PM

Episode 6 was filmed at the fabulous Jefferson Hotel in Richmond, VA.

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by Anonymousreply 465November 22, 2021 1:29 PM

Limey hottie Pip Torrens is playing Lady Caroline’s fiance. Damn, I rubbed out a few watching him in The Crown as Tommy Lascelles, the Royal Secretary.

by Anonymousreply 466November 22, 2021 1:35 PM

Only the exteriors, R465. Everything else was shot in the Plaza Hotel in NYC.

by Anonymousreply 467November 22, 2021 1:36 PM

[quote]I had a glimmer of hope Shiv’s conscience was going to get the better of her.

When all is said and done, I think Shiv will be the new Logan and I believe Logan knows this. Like him, she has the ability to keep her emotions from getting in the way of what needs to be done. She can be ruthless when the situation calls for it.

Poor Tom. While I think he may avoid prison, the marriage will be over sooner rather than later.

by Anonymousreply 468November 22, 2021 1:44 PM

The guy who played the right-wing nut job Mencken (Justin Kirk) played Bobby in Love! Valour! Compassion! on Broadway and Prior Walter in the TV version of Angels in America. And yes, there was a lot of sexual tension during his men's room encounter with Roman.

by Anonymousreply 469November 22, 2021 1:47 PM

"a lot" is an understatement. I was expecting them to start kissing any second.

by Anonymousreply 470November 22, 2021 1:48 PM

They may not have filmed the interiors inside the Jefferson Hotel (that would have entailed getting a lot of extras down to Richmond), but they filmed more than the exteriors of the hotel.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 471November 22, 2021 1:52 PM

That was a great scene, with Roman trying to get Mencken to say his fascist schtick is all an act and Mencken not quite willing to do so. And the weird tension between them was great, with its suggestion that Mencken is every bit the sick puppy that Roman is.

by Anonymousreply 472November 22, 2021 1:54 PM

[quote]Damn, I rubbed out a few watching him in The Crown as Tommy Lascelles, the Royal Secretary.

Gross. He was the opposite of hot. He wasn't even sexual. The character and the actor might as well have lacked genitalia, and yet you are beating off to him?

by Anonymousreply 473November 22, 2021 2:55 PM

Justin Kirk is a good choice. He was sympathetic in Angels in America and a real asshole in Weeds. He's got great versatility to play a sketchy politician.

But yeah, I agree that Logan needs to kick the bucket for this show to maintain/regain momentum. I hope the writers are bold enough to do it. This show and Empire are ostensibly modeled on the premise of King Lear, and Shakespeare was wise enough not to make the play about who Lear chose to take over, but to get that out of the way early on and then to go way beyond that.

by Anonymousreply 474November 22, 2021 2:59 PM

You say “Shakespeare,” I say “sitcom.”

by Anonymousreply 475November 22, 2021 3:47 PM

R471, crew friend told me they only shot in Richmond on one day in mid May, just car stuff and then arriving at the hotel, nothing more. All the interiors (lobby, Logan’s suite, ballroom, etc) were shot at the Plaza.

by Anonymousreply 476November 22, 2021 3:52 PM

R473, to each his own. I think the actor is sexy. And so do other friends of mine who watch The Crown. They’re all female but still.

by Anonymousreply 477November 22, 2021 3:54 PM

I hope this has some very dark twisted turns ahead. Love to see Logan negotiate and toy with a kidnapper who takes one of his kids.

by Anonymousreply 478November 22, 2021 3:54 PM

It should take a tragic trajectory like Lear. It's really just a bunch of bickering up to this point. They all seem rich enough to be above the law, so what's the ultimate point?

by Anonymousreply 479November 22, 2021 4:10 PM

The next episode, "Too Much Birthday," will show us Kendall's spectacularly vulgar and self-glorifying birthday party and will finally bring in Alexander Skarsgard.

by Anonymousreply 480November 22, 2021 4:13 PM

Great to see Yul Vasquez show up in the episode as well. Such an underrated actor.

by Anonymousreply 481November 22, 2021 4:56 PM

For me the attraction of the show is not plot (which, for the most part, is fairly expected... a does move slowly), but the dialog. These characters speak fast and witty (more witty than is realistic, but his is art, eh?)... sometimes it takes a couple beats before it even registers what they've said ... the allusion, the sarcastic attack, the linguistic pratfall.

So much of popular entertainment shows dull people speaking dully. I love the way the scenes are written... the plot is slow, but the dialog is firecracker fast.

Other observation - the Lear stuff... Logan is fucking with Shiv too much, he's misread it ... She's going to flip... she's going to align with Kendall and take Daddy down... and hubby gets fucked in the process, not in a good way.

by Anonymousreply 482November 22, 2021 5:57 PM

[quote] Love to see Logan negotiate and toy with a kidnapper who takes one of his kids.

This isn't "Dallas." circa 1979.

Children of American millionaires don't get kidnapped in the 2020s.

by Anonymousreply 483November 22, 2021 5:59 PM

I really hope Roman and El Andy get it on!

by Anonymousreply 484November 22, 2021 6:29 PM

R484- So Justin can announce once again "I'M NOT GAY".

by Anonymousreply 485November 22, 2021 6:40 PM

What were Roman and the Hawley character doing in the bathroom together?

by Anonymousreply 486November 22, 2021 6:40 PM

R486- Teabagging.

by Anonymousreply 487November 22, 2021 6:44 PM

R486 By the likes of Roman lubing up his hand, fisting.

by Anonymousreply 488November 22, 2021 6:48 PM

[quote] Logan is fucking with Shiv too much, he's misread it ... She's going to flip... she's going to align with Kendall and take Daddy down...

That's my issue with the plot. How many times can family members change allegiances and for how long can that remain compelling? I'm bored of it. It's now been three seasons of misdirection about who Logan thinks would be his best successor and it just keeps bouncing around. That was entertaining for a while but now I find it grating. Likewise, how many times can the siblings be for and then against and then for their dad/their family? I realize the premise is like moving chess pieces around a board but eventually the pawns are gone and the big guys have to start being sacrificed. Yet these people just keep on bebopping around with no consequences.

Also, how many times can the show taunt us with Logan's fake-out illnesses? I really hope it does lead to his sudden death or incapacitation because it's starting to feel like a dramatic cocktease.

Empire did the same sort of thing after the first season: the dad had a terrible progressively disabling illness and then—oops! Misdiagnosis!

It's time for the series to make major moves and risks. Logan needs to be taken out of the picture.

by Anonymousreply 489November 22, 2021 6:54 PM

Stephen Root made a very convincing Grover Norquist.

On a random note, I’m always thrown to see Will Ferrell's name in the credits.

by Anonymousreply 490November 22, 2021 6:59 PM

I really wish Shiv had refused to be in the photo. At this point, Logan has full command, as Kendall has blown it big time. It's just not very satisfying when they are stuck in the same place and no one can bring him down or even botehring to try to. It's like watching everyone capitulate to Drumph.

by Anonymousreply 491November 22, 2021 7:21 PM

Sophie Gilbert from The Atlantic agrees with me.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 492November 22, 2021 7:52 PM

It’s becoming oh so clear now that Tom will join forces with daddy-in-law and Shiv will be toast.

by Anonymousreply 493November 22, 2021 7:59 PM

Kendall is a fucking idiot

by Anonymousreply 494November 22, 2021 8:22 PM

He is and the best scene to express that is when he takes a picture of Tom outside the IHOP and Tom tells them what the family is doing at that time. Brilliant writing.

by Anonymousreply 495November 22, 2021 9:01 PM

I think that Roman and Mencken are going to be caught in a very compromising position. It will be covered up just like the coverup when Kendell killed a man in a drug induced haze. Mencken will drop out of the running for President and it will lead the way for Connor to get the backing of the family with Shiv as his campaign manager.

by Anonymousreply 496November 22, 2021 10:52 PM

I think Connor may have come to life and slipped onto DL.

by Anonymousreply 497November 22, 2021 11:06 PM

It says a lot that Greg was the only one willing to speak up and tell Logan not to back Con for POTUS. Shiv is so weak, between that and the picture with Sexy Fascist. And the family as a whole is just greedy:—you could see Roman thinking it would be cool to grab POTUS for the family as well.

by Anonymousreply 498November 22, 2021 11:42 PM

I get what everyone is saying about the narrative being stuck, but I'm willing to hang in there for some artsy presentation of how essentially awful these people are.

by Anonymousreply 499November 23, 2021 12:06 AM

TIL that Dagmara Domińczyk, who plays the Waystar PR chief Karoline, is married to Patrick Wilson. Lucky bitch.

by Anonymousreply 500November 23, 2021 1:31 AM

Figures Shiv shows more genuine emotion over politics than anything else we've seen during the show's entire run. Typical AWFL.

by Anonymousreply 501November 23, 2021 3:28 AM

Well Shiv was a political consultant, so it’s really no surprise R501.

by Anonymousreply 502November 23, 2021 3:33 AM

Watching the episode again, and Roman was flirting with Menken even before the bathroom scene. Their 'meet cute' in the bar was shot like a pickup, with Roman making fucky eyes. It was really quite brilliant. Roman went full seduction mode once Menken got him hard.

As for Tom, yes he's a sad sack right now and everyone feels bad for him, but the show loves to do this, get our sympathy for a character and then later show them to still be horrible, as we saw with Roman this episode. Tom is still an asshole, but gosh do I love Matthew McFadyen's performance. He's been so fantastic that he actually gets me to feel bad for this primo buffoon. So much pathos. The scene with Kendall in the diner was amazing, but so was the wine tasting, oh my god. Pure bliss watching that. Vegetal, of course Tom would use vegetal.

by Anonymousreply 503November 23, 2021 3:53 AM

R500 Her character has never made much of an impact.

by Anonymousreply 504November 23, 2021 4:08 AM

R504 That's because she's a very limited actress and the producers are not about to embarrass themselves by giving her a lot to emote.

by Anonymousreply 505November 23, 2021 4:37 AM

[quote] On a random note, I’m always thrown to see Will Ferrell's name in the credits

Similar vibe to seeing Executive Producer Kelsey Grammer in the credits of The Game and Girlfriends.

by Anonymousreply 506November 23, 2021 5:44 AM

Of course Shiv will start promoting the fan of “H”. Ivanka did.

by Anonymousreply 507November 23, 2021 5:45 AM

I hope Connor's presidential ambitions are squashed quickly. It's too soon after Trump. I don't have the stomach for art imitating life so closely.

by Anonymousreply 508November 23, 2021 8:21 AM

[quote] Kendall is just going off heresy

Oh, dear!

by Anonymousreply 509November 23, 2021 12:08 PM

Not necessarily r509. Maybe he's converting to the one true Church.

Bitch has to do something!

by Anonymousreply 510November 23, 2021 1:16 PM

Shiv used a lot of profanity when she was in the middle of the group of men/candidates. It reeked of amateurishness and desperation to impress. I immediately thought that Nan Pearce didn’t have to talk like a sailor for men to take her seriously.

by Anonymousreply 511November 23, 2021 1:24 PM

Shiv and Roman are still little kids trying to impress their dad by copying him. Kendall is still a little kid trying to impress their dad by misbehaving. Con is the closet to breaking away and following his own desires, but he still can’t accomplish what he wants under his own steam. I wish there was a sibling in this show who actually had walked away from the family so we could see some kind of contrast.

by Anonymousreply 512November 23, 2021 1:29 PM

I’m still awaiting for a bastard child to arrive on the scene wanting to claim the throne and Logan perking up at that idea.

by Anonymousreply 513November 23, 2021 1:48 PM

A question about Connor, his mother is different from the other three, right? Logan's first wife. And likely he didn't live that much with the other three when children?

The actor seems so obtuse, when the other three share this performative sharpened snark,.

by Anonymousreply 514November 23, 2021 2:41 PM

Yes, Roman says in season 2 that Connor's mother was sent away to the booby hatch. Connor is not a child of Logan and Caroline.

by Anonymousreply 515November 23, 2021 2:50 PM

R514, it's interesting that you posted that. Lately, I've been wondering if the 4 kids we see in the opening credits shows a male child we haven't seen yet. Of course, one of the male children could be Connor but I get the feeling he is much older than the other 3.

by Anonymousreply 516November 23, 2021 2:51 PM

Really enjoyed this latest episode. I agree with others that the sexual tension between Roman and the fascist presidental candidate was a great injection into the storyline. Tense and delicious. While others in this thread opine that nothing is happening, I feel the opposite. As an obscenely wealthy and powerful clan, there is a lot of twisting and churning in the family dynamic as alliances form, change, and deteriorate. A whole lot is simmering underneath the surface, and I prefer slow burn developent rather than the predictable Hollywood standard of one explosive event after another just to generate false excitement. I love the writing and the dialogue.

I'm also enjoying watching a couple of the background women on show, specifically Connor's bored, impatient wife and whomever the woman is with the long, dark hair who scurries behind Logan wherever he goes, receiving various asides from him or who pipes up with a comment of her own every now and again. They're in great positions because they'r fairly constantly present and thus privy to all the strategies and shenanigans while remaining outsiders.

by Anonymousreply 517November 23, 2021 3:01 PM

In real life, Connor is 23 years older than Kendall. But in the show I assume Connor is meant to be around 50ish. About 10-12 years older than Kendall.

by Anonymousreply 518November 23, 2021 3:02 PM

Alan Ruck is very youthful for his age. He's 65 but playing 50-ish and pulls it off! IRL he's only 10 years younger than Brian Cox. He was nearly 30 when he played high schooler Cameron in Ferris Bueller's Day Off.

by Anonymousreply 519November 23, 2021 3:12 PM

I don't quite get the folks here, and other media, who say "nothing is happening in this slow-moving plot"

I think they've gotten distracted by the power struggle over Logan/Kendall and WayStar. We saw power-brokers, the elite and super-rich, behind close doors "picking" the next US President... with an analysis of how pure Fascism seems suddenly acceptable. Yeah, nothing to see here, just the death of democracy.

by Anonymousreply 520November 23, 2021 3:53 PM

But that is not central to the story. It’s a tangent.

by Anonymousreply 521November 23, 2021 4:07 PM

R521 Disagree. The dance with the government, corruption, crime, whistleblowers, and how power (international media-driven wealth) warps the government/justice system itself. - to the point WayStar sank the President because he wouldn't call off the DOJ investigation.... is a central plot point. The environment where all the soap opera family stuff happens in.

by Anonymousreply 522November 23, 2021 4:11 PM

I also don’t get people who ask when we’ll find out which child Logan is going to pick to lead the company. Logan has been dangling that over these kids’ heads and it’s the entire premise of the show. There’s no show without that question, so we won’t know the resolution until the end of the series.

by Anonymousreply 523November 23, 2021 6:24 PM

I don't want them to blow anything up, and I appreciate the environmental satire, but I do want something to shift for good among the family members. We're obviously divided on that, but for Logan to just keep shifting his favoritism, it doesn't hold any dramatic tension for me. There's the satire aspect of the story and then there are the character arcs—but there are no real arcs here, just circles.

Network is a brilliant satire because of how it shows the commodification of journalism, but what propels it are the changes to the characters.

by Anonymousreply 524November 23, 2021 6:35 PM

I don’t think it makes sense for Logan to change the way the plays the kids against each other, because he’s been doing for so long as a way of holding them captive, but I could see the change in the characters coming through how they react to his games. If they’d joined Kendall and teamed up against Logan that wold have changed the dynamics dramatically.

by Anonymousreply 525November 23, 2021 6:42 PM

The producers and HBO want the show to go on as long as it can, so they're just going to keep spinning wheels until the audience gets tired and tunes out.

by Anonymousreply 526November 23, 2021 6:45 PM

I believe Jesse Armstrong has said in interviews he won't go past 5 seasons. Shows that run forever are far less of a thing in TV than they used to be.

by Anonymousreply 527November 23, 2021 6:59 PM

There will be all this turmoil through the run of the show but in the end, the family will emerge even more powerful and insidious than ever. Just like the Murdochs/Fox News.

Oh, and Logan will end up marrying Jerry Hall with the producers doing a big "wink-wink" to the television audience.

by Anonymousreply 528November 23, 2021 7:04 PM

Did anyone else get the impression in the latest episode that the President’s actual name, not just his nickname, is Raisin?

by Anonymousreply 529November 23, 2021 7:05 PM

Sandra Oh as Wendi Deng.

by Anonymousreply 530November 23, 2021 7:06 PM

Lucy Liu would be a better Deng, being Chinese and all.

by Anonymousreply 531November 23, 2021 7:07 PM

They call the president "the raisin" because he's from California. He's the California raisin.

by Anonymousreply 532November 23, 2021 7:08 PM

You're absolutely right, r532. Scarier too, if Kill Bill is any indication.

by Anonymousreply 533November 23, 2021 7:09 PM

I was thinking there was no way Connor could be offered up as an acceptable candidate for POTUS considering his significant other was a hooker, but then I remember Melania has shown the world her tittites and look at what happened there..

by Anonymousreply 534November 23, 2021 8:50 PM

I love that Shiv doesn’t give a real fuck about Tom, or basically anything else besides power and politics. I’d be exactly like her if given the same family situation.

by Anonymousreply 535November 23, 2021 9:36 PM

Similar problem for The Walking Dead. Keeping the plot going, but going nowhere starts to alienate the audience.

by Anonymousreply 536November 23, 2021 10:31 PM

I don't find the presidential selection scenes plausible. A lot more players are involved in a decision like that, and if it comes down to a handful of players calling the shots, it's be the big money PACs, not a cable news network.

by Anonymousreply 537November 23, 2021 10:50 PM

Well, yeah, of course it's not that simple r537, especially with Fox being actually kind of on the outs with so many wingnuts and Trump whores these days.

But going into 2016, I'm sure every candidate was worried about where they stood with Fox first and foremost. As it turned out, Trump had more power than they did, which became obvious after his really disgusting comments to Megan Kelley. I think Roger Ailes thought he could make and unbreak Republicans, but it turned out he really couldn't, at least with Trump. I don't know if they are going to play with that dynamic at all in the show, but they could.

by Anonymousreply 538November 23, 2021 11:15 PM

I think they kind of are, r538, with Mencken's dismissal of ATN and embrace of new media. I imagine we’ll eventually see that come to something.

by Anonymousreply 539November 23, 2021 11:22 PM

Speaking of Melania, Justine Lupe's impression of her in this episode was pitch perfect without going overboard. It's implied Willa has in the past shown her own titties (and more) to some of the convention attendees.

by Anonymousreply 540November 23, 2021 11:29 PM

I wanna see Roman’s teeny weeny, out of curiosity.

by Anonymousreply 541November 24, 2021 12:12 AM

The reason Tom wants to get Shiv pregnant is for insurance. If she's pregnant while he's in prison, she's less likely to cheat on him again and won't be as desirable to other men. He knows as soon as he's in jail, she'll be stepping out on him and will probably divorce him leaving him with nothing, no wife, no job, no ties to the Roy's when he gets out. A baby would keep him in the loop, kinda.

by Anonymousreply 542November 24, 2021 12:14 AM

A sort of anchor baby, r542. Delicious, considering you just know that news station has been shrieking about that for years.

by Anonymousreply 543November 24, 2021 12:37 AM

I wish the show was brave enough to show Roman having a gay affair but it seems pretty MOR sexually. None of the siblings seem to have a sex life.

by Anonymousreply 544November 24, 2021 1:46 AM

R542 - Shiv’s insides are too evil and rotten to carry a baby to full term.

by Anonymousreply 545November 24, 2021 11:40 AM

Have you ever seen a set of siblings who look less alike, or like their parents? It's almost purposeful.

by Anonymousreply 546November 24, 2021 12:21 PM

R546, yes! I was thinking the same thing. I guess Logan had a lot of assistants over the years.

by Anonymousreply 547November 24, 2021 12:47 PM

So the problem with Succession is its stasis which is quite the opposite of Billions which moves implausibly fast?

by Anonymousreply 548November 24, 2021 2:52 PM

There is NO problem with Succession IMO.

by Anonymousreply 549November 24, 2021 2:54 PM

^ There are literally multiple links to different critics complaining about the circular plot.

by Anonymousreply 550November 24, 2021 3:01 PM

Billions is unrealistic in so many ways, not least the portrayal of federal prosecutors (lol). Succession got that part right, especially Kendall’s blasé attitude towards them.

by Anonymousreply 551November 24, 2021 3:02 PM

R546 I’m surprised that there haven’t been storylines about the hereditary of the children and bastard children yet.

by Anonymousreply 552November 24, 2021 4:59 PM

There’s something about the title sequence that never really added up for me. I always looked at it as being more impressionistic than literal, but then this season (I think) they added Waystar logos and stuff, so I guess it is indeed supposed to be old home movies.

Killer music though.

by Anonymousreply 553November 24, 2021 5:27 PM

I think that Connor is supposed to be about 10 years old than Kendall, but if the title sequence is correct he's about 2 years older ... and Shiv isn't the youngest, Roman is.

by Anonymousreply 554November 24, 2021 6:03 PM

There's a bastard brother out there somewhere.

by Anonymousreply 555November 24, 2021 7:54 PM

The criticism of Succession right now -- Nothing happens! It's circular! The plot is repetitive! -- is exactly what was said about The Sopranos while seasons 3-5 of that show were on the air.

by Anonymousreply 556November 24, 2021 8:21 PM

Really? I don't remember anyone saying that about the Sopranos.

by Anonymousreply 557November 24, 2021 8:33 PM

R553 There is one homely child in particular that looks nothing like anyone in the cast.

by Anonymousreply 558November 24, 2021 8:36 PM

I can't get over Alan Ruck being just being 10 years younger than Brian Cox while David Rasche (Karl) is 2 years older than Cox. In short: Cox looks ancient.

by Anonymousreply 559November 24, 2021 8:39 PM

Yes, R557, it was said about The Sopranos, and particularly about seasons 4 (nothing happens) and 5 (circular, repetitious) of that show.

by Anonymousreply 560November 24, 2021 8:43 PM

Also, this may have something to do with streaming and people becoming more accustomed to binge-watching TV series. Maybe if Succession were a show that one could binge-watch rather than waiting for new episodes to air weekly, the pacing and narrative wouldn't feel repetitious and circular. When you wait and watch a new episode, and it doesn't feel like it's building up to anything, I'm sure many will view the pacing as regressive and anti-climatic.

by Anonymousreply 561November 24, 2021 9:36 PM

What did Tom say to Kendall after they came out of the diner, before Kendall took those photos of him walking to the car. It was something very poignant and honest.

by Anonymousreply 562November 24, 2021 10:12 PM

Not quite sure what you mean, r562, but I do remember him saying something like "I've seen you get fucked so many times, Kendall, and I've never seen Logan get fucked once." Meaning of course, you're not going to win this.

Is that what you're thinking of?

by Anonymousreply 563November 24, 2021 10:19 PM

Yes. I found the quote on Reddit:

"And I don't mean to be insulting, but, having been around a bit...my hunch...is that you're going to get fucked because I've seen you get fucked a lot. And I've never seen Logan get fucked once."

That line just blew me away. Tom is so desperate. He’s trapped and nobody, not even his wife cares. This is the one time he poked his head out of his misery and was straight with Kendall.

by Anonymousreply 564November 24, 2021 10:29 PM

Roman is the shortest when they’re side by side.

It’s definitely meant to be home movies of the Roys, not impressionistic. It cuts directly from the back of Logan sittinv outside with his family to him years later at Waystar.

by Anonymousreply 565November 24, 2021 10:55 PM

R545, the same can be said of Chrissy Teigen

by Anonymousreply 566November 25, 2021 12:33 AM

[quote]The plot is repetitive! -- is exactly what was said about The Sopranos while seasons 3-5 of that show were on the air.

I watched The Sopranos every week as it aired, never missing an episode and spending time between shows in fan forums. No one ever said this about The Sopranos. Ever. It wouldn't make sense. Shows like The Sopranos and Breaking Bad thrived on their dramatic plots. There were one or two less eventful episodes but most fans always rated those poorly and complained. Also, the show was known for its high body count, so that criticism would be a non-starter.

by Anonymousreply 567November 25, 2021 12:56 AM

In the previews for the next episode, it looks like something happens above the crowd at Kendall’s birthday party. Everyone’s looking up in surprise.

Also there are decorations that look like tabloid headlines saying bad things about his siblings.

by Anonymousreply 568November 25, 2021 12:57 AM

Is it possible that the intro was developed before the cast was finalised?

by Anonymousreply 569November 25, 2021 1:17 AM

R569 No, deal with it. Girls mature faster AND Roman is Tiny PLUS we all know Alan Ruck is very old but he actually can pass for a little older than Kendall. The intro and the kids look awesome so chill out.

by Anonymousreply 570November 25, 2021 1:25 AM

The music, not just the intro, is phenomenal. The composer is Nicholas Brittel who worked in finance in Wall Street until the Great Recession of '08. He also wrote the score for Moonlight and continues to work with director Barry Jenkins in every project. If you appreciate this kind of thing, I'd advise you to download the albums of the music for each season. Season 2, especially, was a masterpiece.

by Anonymousreply 571November 25, 2021 1:30 AM

He also wrote Kendall's cringe rap

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 572November 25, 2021 1:37 AM

[quote] yes! I was thinking the same thing. I guess Logan had a lot of assistants over the years.

I think Kendall, Shiv and Roman’s mother would have a pretty clear idea of whether she gave birth to them or not.

by Anonymousreply 573November 25, 2021 1:37 AM

“Deal with it” R570? “Chill out”?

I was just asking a question about the intro on a reasonably popular show.

You’re obviously much more invested in this than I am.

by Anonymousreply 574November 25, 2021 1:56 AM

At the end of the day Logan is a businessman r464, if Mencken is going make great TV and that will be great for ATN. And Logan has always begrudgingly respected people who are strong, Mencken showed he has balls.

by Anonymousreply 575November 25, 2021 2:10 AM

Just caught up.

Glad to see i was not the only one who thought that Roman and Mencken wanted to fuck each other and that the moisturizing thing was like him lubing his cock up to slide it into Roman's sizable buttocks. No mention of a Mrs. Mencken either though I am sure there is one.

Kendall firing the lawyer when she tried to correct him was perfect, exactly what he would do.

Greg's line about some guy with an undercut calling him "soy boy" made me laugh

Mencken does seem to be based on Josh Hawley

by Anonymousreply 576November 25, 2021 2:15 AM

So true r576, about firing the lawyer. And of course she's "toxic," cause dammit she disagreed with his stupid spoiled rich boy ass!

by Anonymousreply 577November 25, 2021 2:17 AM

[quote] There's a bastard brother out there somewhere.

Yes. Adam Carrington.

by Anonymousreply 578November 25, 2021 2:20 AM

Logan's like to Shiv "are you part of this family:" was also brilliant in that it is what fathers say to recalcitrant teenagers who want to go out with their friends rather than show up for some boring family party--not to their 30something daughters.

by Anonymousreply 579November 25, 2021 2:31 AM

^^line to Shiv

by Anonymousreply 580November 25, 2021 2:32 AM

'Sopranos' about to be 'hit' JAY CRONLEY World Staff Columnist 496 words 28 March 2006 Final Home A9 English

Today's piece is about the following topics in this order: gangsters, sports and politics.

As The Underworld Turns, that's the soapy "Sopranos" as it drifts in a counter-clockwise rotation toward the drain and on to the fishes.

This formerly captivating portrait of Jersey mobsters with extra cheesiness has turned repetitive and gloomy as it winds toward a conclusion that could take the form of, talk about depressing, a feature film; talk about greedy.

"The Sopranos" was great early. Then the writers choked. The last two episodes have featured Tony in dream sequences. He wasn't the only one sleeping through the show Sunday night.

"The Shield" has replaced "The Sopranos" as the best television show going.

by Anonymousreply 581November 25, 2021 2:39 AM

"It was a somewhat uneven season for HBO's The Sopranos, but the highs were still sublime. Any year with The Sopranos is a good year." -- The Baltimore Sun, 2001, in a review of season 3 of The Sopranos.

by Anonymousreply 582November 25, 2021 2:56 AM

""The West Wing" kicked "The Sopranos" good last year, and it's safe to say the White House drama was even stronger this past season than it was in its first, with the episodes about the president's concealed illness particularly effective. Meanwhile, "The Sopranos" turned some fans off with its brutality upgrade and left others complaining it had lost freshness and focus." -- Newsday, in its preview of the Emmys on October 7, 2001.

by Anonymousreply 583November 25, 2021 3:04 AM

"The final episode [of season 3] drew some criticism of a different kind: some viewers thought it ended the season more with a whimper, than a bang -- despite the mob killing of the unwise young Jackie Aprile Jr." -- The New York Times, July 16, 2001.

by Anonymousreply 584November 25, 2021 3:13 AM

``THE SOPRANOS' SEASON-ENDER CONCLUDES ON A RATHER SOUR NOTE Kerry Dougherty Kerry Dougherty 656 words 22 May 2001 The Virginian-Pilot NFLK FINAL B1 English

My best friend from high school was shocked last year when she learned that I lived in an HBO-less house.

``You mean you've never watched `The Sopranos?' ' she gasped. ``You've gotta see it. It's like home. It's just like Trenton.'

So last fall, when Cox was running one of those great 11-bucks-a-month specials, I signed up for HBO and started watching ``Sopranos' reruns.

All of them.

My friend was right. It was just like Trenton. In fact, one fleeting scene in the opening credits looks so much like our old neighborhood that I can almost smell the garlic.

Easing into the world of ``The Sopranos' wasn't easy, though. This is a show with complicated plot lines, knotty family ties and a cast of characters who all look alike.

Nevertheless, by the time Sal Bonpensiero's bullet-riddled body was sinking in the Atlantic in the 2000 finale, I was hooked.

Now, after the end of the new season, I'm not so sure.

Let's face it, the 2001 Sopranos were as bumpy as Paulie Walnuts' nose.

Sure, there were a few gripping story lines. Dr. Melfi's rape comes to mind. So do the Russian mob encounters and Gloria's psychotic obsession with Tony Soprano.

But each of those stories was allowed to fizzle.

Maybe the writers plan to revive them next season, but that's not for another 11 months. Too late.

Those of us who hoped for some excitement in the finale were bitterly disappointed. Instead of going out in a hail of gunfire (the Russian mob bursting in on Jackie Jr.'s wake would have been a nice touch) ``The Sopranos' signed off with Carrado ``Junior' Soprano crooning as the camera lingered on each family member's tear-stained face. It dragged on forever.

By the show's end, I was dabbing away tears, too. Of disappointment.

I wasn't the only one. As radio talk-show host Tony Macrini said yesterday, if we want to hear bad Italian singing we'll put on an Al Martino album. No one needs Uncle Junior's endless yodeling.

Then again, I've been steamed at ``The Sopranos' for the past few weeks, ever since an episode abruptly ended 15 minutes early. I felt robbed. No explanation was ever offered. It's as if everyone associated with the show had taken some mob vow of silence.

As it turns out, the season finale could have lasted just 30 minutes and that would have been plenty.

Instead of tying up at least one delicious loose end, the show wasted about 15 minutes with Tony Soprano's juvenile-delinquent son almost being packed off to military school. Thrilling.

Then it spent more time documenting daughter Meadow Soprano's moping. Heck, I don't need HBO to see a teen-ager sulk, I can just peek in my daughter's room.

What we have here is a case of heightened expectations. Extravagant praise has been lavished on ``The Sopranos.' It's been elevated, in some critics' minds, from simple television series to high art form.

Newsweek recently declared that ``The Sopranos' had become a ``cultural phenomenon.'

``The Sopranos is far and away the best show on television,' Newsweek gushed. ``So good, in fact, that TV producers have begun to wonder: Why can't the networks make stuff like this?'

Until Sunday night, I might have agreed. The writing is almost always crisp and clever. The acting is excellent. But after this yawner of a season finale, I have no choice but to pull the plug on HBO.

Let it sleep with the fishes.

The only way I'll stroke those movie-channel checks again is if they make me an offer I can't refuse."

by Anonymousreply 585November 25, 2021 3:25 AM

Succession is fascinating even if it doesn’t seem to go anywhere. The dialogue alone is very entertaining.

It took me about 3 tries to get into it— my first few attempts, I was repulsed by the Don Jr vibes from Jeremy Strong.

Yes, I hate Don Jr that much.

by Anonymousreply 586November 25, 2021 6:00 AM

It was Roman that annoyed me more than Kendall. I was happy when Logan slapped the shit out of him last season so he could shut the fuck up with those sassy, Robert Downey, Jr./Iron Man-type quips and one-liners.

by Anonymousreply 587November 25, 2021 6:33 AM

None of those Sopranos criticisms complain about movement. No mention of stasis or being repetitive.

by Anonymousreply 588November 25, 2021 6:41 AM

Time magazine, 2006: The Sopranos spins its wheels.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 589November 25, 2021 6:44 AM

R589 Girls! GIRLS! Stop clogging up the thread with Sopranos reviews from 15 years ago. Nobody but you gives a shit.

by Anonymousreply 590November 25, 2021 7:00 AM

Looking at reviews on other sites, it seems that many heteros also picked up on the sexual tension between Roman and Mancken in the bathroom scene, it was that blatant

by Anonymousreply 591November 25, 2021 11:40 AM

“People either want to fuck me or kill me.”

— Mencken’s opening line to Roman.

by Anonymousreply 592November 25, 2021 1:03 PM

Why did Kendall take a picture of Tom?

by Anonymousreply 593November 25, 2021 1:05 PM

Exactly r592. It was literally written into the script from his first line to Roman. But he was trying to seduce, maybe not to get in his pants, but a seduction nonetheless.

by Anonymousreply 594November 25, 2021 1:07 PM

Kendall took the picture as (pretty weak) blackmail to send to Logan or Shiv to tell them Tom was willing to meet Kendall when Kendall is supposed to be persona non grata. Tom will just say, of course I was willing to meet with him, I wanted to see if I could leverage the situation.

by Anonymousreply 595November 25, 2021 1:09 PM

R575, do you really think Logan could overlook the things Mencken said about him and ATN in a public setting? Really?

by Anonymousreply 596November 25, 2021 1:45 PM

No, R569, the pilot was shot in November/December 2016 and the first season shot from October 2017 to March 2018. The premiere aired June 2018. The opening credit footage was finalized way before then.

by Anonymousreply 597November 25, 2021 1:49 PM

The “older” Shiv was not in the intro for Season 1. She started appearing in Season 2. The only new thing in the Season 3 intro is Kendall (?) smoking a cigar.

by Anonymousreply 598November 25, 2021 1:53 PM

I've rewatched the episode and don't see this supposed "sexual tension" DLers are seeing between Mencken and Roman. You're all just setting yourselves up for disappointment. Remember how people projected gayness on Breaking Bad's Gus Fring character? The same is happening here. This show is written by straight men and to them, it was just a conversation between two guys in the bathroom. That's all.

by Anonymousreply 599November 25, 2021 2:09 PM

Well, R599, there is a shot of them emerging from the bathroom making subtle adjustments to their shirts. It was absolutely implied. The actors, at the very least, were playing it as subtext.

by Anonymousreply 600November 25, 2021 2:12 PM

I don’t think Mencken and Roman are headed toward a sexual relationship, r599, but you do know that Gus Fring *was* gay, right?

by Anonymousreply 601November 25, 2021 2:15 PM
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