Janet Jackson Super Bowl Scandal Set As Latest New York Times Doc For FX/Hulu

Yawn. It's going on 20 years. Move on.

That nipple is at least three inches lower.

How are they going to make a whole documentary on this one event? Ridiculous.

How many girl titties had Justin ever been near before that halftime show.

Janet SET IT UP so if the portray her as a victim of double standard and racism, give me a fucking break. She was cancelled because it was. DESPERATELY thirty and tacky thing to do. ON a mainstream event. Its not like Paris Hilton and KK savoring big black dong on "private" sex tapes.

And I'm sure the Super Bowl will be the focus of Janet's own upcoming documentary, where I'm sure she'll present herself as a victim despite the fact that she was the HEADLINER and made the final decision about the show. Not Justin. Not CBS. Not the NFL.

She is NOT a victim. The fallout was ridiculous but that's what happens when you as the headliner decide "why not have a guy rip off my clothing at the end of the performance? What could possibly go wrong?"

We don't need two docs about this event.

I can’t imagine how this will stretch to a whole series, but I’m excited for how bad it will make JT look (which he deserves).

Oh excuse me, Paris devoured big white cock. KK the black cock.

The NYT will not make JJ look bad. The entire agenda will be for woke points.

R9 Were you too excited to type the word “woke” to read my post and see that it said JT, not JJ?

Jesus, Hollywood is fucking out of ideas.

I won't hold my breath for the The New York Times Presents documentary about the immoral preacher Dr. Martin Luther King, who liked to slap around his mistresses and prostitutes and plagiarized his doctoral thesis.

So much noise over a tittie.

I read your remark about JT and made the complementary prediction that it will be kind to JJ.

Klan granny alert at R12

JT will be raked over the coals. Again.

It was vulgar! My children and grand babies watch the Super Bowl for Christ's sake!

I'm all for examining how Janet was unfairly maligned for this, but they better not insult us by pretending it was a wardrobe malfunction or some shit. It was a dumb stunt that JT was allowed to get past and she wasn't, for all kinds of racist and sexist reasons.

The involvement of "members of the Jackson family" is never a good sign.

JT didn't pull out his dick. He was the guest star and did what he was asked to do.

Will Janbot stop sucking Janets saggy udders long enough to comment?

Twitter always wants to avenge Janet Jackson for destroying her career in a poorly thought out stunt, but I think Sinéad O'Connor should be avenged first for her stunt. She was right about the Catholic Church harboring pedophiles. Plus she is crazier and much more interesting than Janet Jackson. New York Times should do a thing on O'Connor's scandal and how she was right all along.

Hopefully Les Moonves is fully exposed for his role in torpedoing Janet's career.

Agreed, Sinead deserves vindication. What she did was a hell of a lot braver and she suffered far worse.

But both stories can and should be told.

Wow scraping the bottom of the barrel. Nobody gives a fuck.

How will they blame whites?

What a bullshit documentary. How are they going to try and martyr someone who did this to herself PURPOSELY???

I agree about Sinead.

At least Janet has #JanetJacksonAppreciationDay and has had some vindication. Sinead is still vilified for SNL despite the fact that she was right and exposed bitter ugly truths about the church that people in 1992 were unwilling to face.

[quote] At least Janet has #JanetJacksonAppreciationDay and has had some vindication.

Sweetie, just because Jabba made some ridiculous thing up like Janet Jackson Appreciation Day doesn't mean it exists in the real world.

As a Janet fan , she had a good long run and maybe she coulda squeezed out a few more hits if the SB never happened, but let’s be realistic. Not Janet, or Madonna or Mariah have sustained their popularity. They are all legacy artists, can headline a festival, do a residency or tour, but none are going to be bouncing around the billboard hot 100 again. I guess my point it, the Super Bowl probably slightly sped up an already predictable trajectory for her career.

Exactly r29. Her music was already becoming tired by 2004. She had exhausted the sex kitten image and she really hasn't been able to reinvent herself.

The original "scandal" was stupid. So is this

R30 but I do not think that’s unique to Janet. That’s just women pop stars over 40. The good thing is that those I mentioned all have so many hits that they are able to sustain fairly lucrative careers off of those hits, but absolutely no one gives a shit about their new music and they all look foolish trying to manipulate the system to get number 1 albums that free fall off the charts in the second week.

Holy run on sentence, Batman!

can't wait to watch!

Janet's streaming numbers are so low, I wonder if this will help boost her streams. Probably not.

Being a victim has done wonders for Britney Spears's streams. I wonder if it will do anything for Janet's streams once this documentary comes out.

#IStandWithJanet

What relevance does this have almost 20 years later? Janet pulled a stunt and the right wingers overreacted. Who gives a shit now?

Tittie too?

[quote] #IStandWithJanet

That fat hog never stands.

This is part of a larger series. The next one reexamines Nancy Grace's Dancing With the Stars nip-slip.

R41 they should examine her on air fart, it was quite the scandal

BUMP!

Julia Roberts IS Janet Jackson!

dang, she look all white now and her nose is dang near gone...wtf????

SHE AINT MISS NASTY, SHE MISS 'I WANNA BE A WHITE LADY'......CRAZY

What a lot of fuss about nothing.

9/11 postponed Janet Jackson's original Super Bowl date from 2002, until 2004. This happened at the worst possible time, during peak Bush II/Iraq War/conservative era. Creeper Leslie Moonves was also hugely instrumental in dismantling Janet's career by blocking her content on various platforms. Amazing what comes to light with the passage of time.

It was all over in a couple of seconds. Why the fuck are they making a doco on it.

I like Janet and her music but this shit is so old and tired. She and JT wanted to outdo their competitors Madonna and Britney with a bigger stunt and it backfired. End of story. Only Janet stans refuse to accept it was an error in Janet's judgment. Yes, the public reaction was over-the-top but The US is a country of religious prudes who like to drag famous people through the mud. Janet was also too old for a comeback and the sexpot sound was exhausted, she also changed her sound too much which alienated her loyal fans, she stopped promoting her music even with the media blackballing and she decided to pursue acting anyway. And Britney was a young post-teenage girl with a shitty background who was manipulate by so many. Janet grew up in a showbiz family, pursued stardom on her own and at the Super Bowl event was nearing middle age. Janet should be judged more because she had more life experience and knew what the country was like.

Janet's only scandal is that she can't sing live!!!! Let's talk about it, shall we?

[quote] Janet's only scandal is that she can't sing live!!!! Let's talk about it, shall we?

Neither can Britney, J. Lo, Rihanna or Mariah. Katy, Gaga and Beyonce deserve credit for singing live.

If she'd pulled the stunt in the late 1990s I don't think anyone would have freaked out this much, MTV would have been right there to filter the scandal through an "oh, those wacky pop stars" lens, like they did when Prince or Cher wore see-through outfits and such.

Everything had changed so much by 2004 that you couldn't have a little mild nudity on stage anymore, and Janet hadn't kept up with the times.

The fallout is the interesting part, the coordinated effort to ruin her permanently and the screaming "think of the children" hysterics were an insane reaction to something that wasn't that big of a deal. The media was in the midst of a huge hate-a-thon on women pop singers and she got caught up in that.

I think the general public's reaction ranged from indifferent to mildly amused. Most people understand it was either an accident or attention-grabbing stunt. Only a vocal minority got angry. The fringe conservatives went crazy and over-the-top about it comparing to the end of the world.

True r54. The same people who were clutching their pearls and outraged over Janet's titty flash were the same people who were clutching their pearls and outraged at Bill Clinton getting a blowjob from an intern a few years earlier. Most of America either didn't care or they were mildly amused by the whole thing.

Even if the Super Bowl incident never happened. I think Janet's music career would have still faltered. Damita Jo would have performed better but it wasn't radio-friendly and the album was heavily R&B. Less pop. So it would not have been as mainstream as All For You. Her label, Virgin wasn't promoting her as much anymore as didn't push for more singles on All For You. Her post-Damita Jo albums like 20 YO and Discipline were mediocre and didn't sound like her. She alienated her buying base with that. Leaving Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis for Jermaine Dupri was beyond dumb. She was fucking Dupri which influenced her decision. Janet was losing her identity and chasing trends and getting insecure about getting older. She in general mishandled her career in the 2000s and Super Bowl incident plus the media blackball did not help

The white public's response was revulsion a the display of sagging tattooed pierced black titty. And black folks with taste were appalled by the vulgar thirstiness of it.

[quote] Janet was losing her identity and chasing trends and getting insecure about getting older.

Hmmm............where else have we seen that?

"...as well as insights from music industry insiders, cultural critics and members of the Jackson family"

Some VERY reliable people here!!! NYT really went for the EXPERTS with this doc!!

Here's the trailer for it. It looks boring.

Janet Jackson is boring.

Janet Jackson is talentless.

Justin should make it right by whipping out his dong.

R63 Manet didn’t whip her dong out so why should he? His tit should suffice.

The whole thing was entirely her fault. It was a tacky stunt that backfired. Her trying to turn it into a race issue is disgusting.

A better documentary would be about the wigs/weaves American Black women wear where the hair used in those wigs/weaves was acquired from the shorn heads of impoverished third world women who actually are oppressed..

r64 Guy tit doesn't have the same impact. Only dong will suffice.

I’m interested in how the idea came about in the first place and how on earth anybody thought it would work out well.

It was Janet's idea. But somehow Justin is the villain?

Justin Timberlake was fucking Britney, Janet and Cameron Diaz in the early 2000s. His dick must have been amazing.

Great comments and analysis r50 r53 r56. Janet's *may* have been able to pull this off in another venue, like Britney and Madonna, but her judgement was totally off by doing this at the Super Bowl. I think Janet was in a weird show-business bubble her whole life and didn't have any good people around her to tell her this was a bad idea.

Janet Jackson was Justin Timberlake's idol before this, he publicly adored her and was heavily influenced by her. His swift abandonment is what made people angry with him years later. It reminds me of Anderson Cooper and Kathy Griffin. It really has less to due with race. People in general do not appreciate fair-weather friends.

Someone who is good at this sort of thing please hypothesize Janet’s thinking leading up to this ridiculous publicity stunt.

The thing is I believe Janet and Justin had practiced this in private. Nobody knew about it, according to Janet's apology. I'm not sure how the non-private rehearsed version ended.

But the fact that she kept it private, what did she think was going to happen? She knew she was doing something she shouldn't be doing.

I believe Justin should have gotten backlash too because he was in on it too. He was protected mainly because he was this young hot artist that Jive invested in like crazy. He was getting Pharrell and Timbaland tracks and poised as the "next Michael Jackson" and rival to Usher. I agree he should have been a more vocal defender of Janet. But to his credit he did in an interview admit he was wrong for not standing up for her and he also called out how ludicrous the public reaction was.

R73, Justin didn't get backlash because he tearfully cried to executives on the phone after he knew people would accuse him of being "in on it". Little bitch.

Timberlake was very popular at the time and making a lot of people a lot of $$$$$. They weren't going to cancel a cash cow like Timberlake was back then.

So excited that someone is finally revealing the truth about this. I can't wait to not watch it!!

Her crappy career (which would have never happened without Michael) was already on a steep decline.

All For You was a good album and she had a few hits. I agree her career was going to die after that. She was getting too old for the sexpot role and the music landscape was also changing. I enjoyed Damita Jo and have the album but it's a grown-folks R&B album and not at all radio friendly though some songs like "All Nite" and "SloLove" would have been good singles for the dance charts. Mariah and Madonna's careers faltered around the same time, both were aging out of the pop landscape and trying too hard to be sexy as middle-aged women didn't win people over. Britney, Christina, Beyonce, and Ciara took over as sex symbols and Pink and Kelly Clarkson were also popular for being able to sing properly and Gwen Stefani, Nelly Furtado and Fergie were bringing in a new pop sound that would dominate the rest of the 2000s.

Yes, Janet Jackson's career was already in decline by '04. She hadn't been a really big star since the late 90s.

Scandal my juicy ass, more like created for controversy by Timberlake and Jacksons PR people. Stunt went sideways when uptight religious freaks lost their collective shit over a quick tit flash.

Mariah and Madonna both had major hits the following year, but after that it was pretty much over for them as big-time Billboard Hot 100 artists.

To Madonna's credit, she was able to continue to chart in Europe and that's how she managed to still have a big career. Europeans love dance music. She was completely over in The US after Confessions on the Dancefloor in 2005. Janet's music was mostly R&B and it is dated by the time (80s and 90s), she is still beloved but nowhere close to Madonna. Mariah just fell apart once she lost her voice, gained weight and trying too hard to be relevant and sexy with all that moaning. Mottola, as abusive and shitty a person, knew how to market her. Toni Braxton should have had a better career than Mariah because she never lost her voice.

Toni Braxton was so uninteresting, she had no star quality

Well, I don't Mariah really did either. She was pretty but kinda bland but she doesn't have much charisma on stage. It's interesting to see if Mariah would have gotten her pop career if she didn't marry Tony Mottolla who used his influence to play her songs on the radio and have MTV push her videos. I think had she not gotten with Mottolla, she would have just been purely a songwriter and made money off of that.

NYT should do an interview exposing the Jackson family for protecting michaels secret pedophelia for years and lying about it even now

NYT should do an expose on Janet buying off her family members' silence with Baja Fresh cards.

I'll watch this, but I'm really waiting for the doc she produced that's coming out in January.

La Toya didn't lie about Michael. She called him out national TV. In Janet's defense she wasn't close to Michael and their relationship was mostly a business one. So many other celebrities defended Michael like Liz Taylor and Marlon Brando.

They all knew Michael was fucking those kids

They had an idea that shady stuff was going on but they weren't there to confirm anything. Michael distanced himself from his family and friends after Thriller and completely after Bad. He isolated himself in his big mansion and only visited his family once in a while. That's when he started his perverted activities. He had to get rid of most of his connections who would smack him aside the head for hanging out with little boys. La Toya had the idea and called him out. The rest likely felt pressured to maintain his legacy. It's ironic because he tried to sabotage his siblings solo careers.

SHE KNOWN FOR LONGTIME AS LIP SINKER AND BICH CAINT SING FO SHIT

If the malfunction was on purpose, why did she gasp, look terrified, and immediately throw up her hands to cover it? Was it in case there was backlash? It just seems like an odd choice artistically for the entire show to go perfectly and then pretend things went horribly wrong at the end. If it was on purpose, I feel like it would've made more sense for her to stand there and look confident.

All true, r90. By the late 80s Michael Jackson really distanced himself from everyone and spent most of his time with little boys. There was a reason why Neverland was in the middle of fucking nowhere, with no neighbors anywhere around.

R90, Michael was bringing boys to spend the night even when he iced at the family’s compound. They’d have to be total morons not to think something was up.

*lived

R89 Michael wasn’t able to fuck anything , get real. He was creepy and suffered from Peter pan syndrome in his mind he was 9 years old.

R96, are you on the “he was castrated” conspiracy train like Joe Rogan?

[quote]If the malfunction was on purpose, why did she gasp, look terrified, and immediately throw up her hands to cover it?

Uh, she didn't. She threw her hands up to... just below her boobs. She made sure the cameras got the shot before she actually covered her boob.

I think he had pedophilic tendencies but I don't know how far he went. He did seem weirdly asexual too. He probably just snuggled and inappropriately touched these kids not sodomize them. But still he manipulated and toyed with their young minds. Threw them away after they finished puberty despite telling them he loved and cared for them. The parents were greedy fucks too for letting him do to that to their kids.

I think something fucked him up in the head to want to be a child and play doctor with little boys. He needed someone to help him in his youth accept he was gay. I imagine one reason Joe beat the shit out of him because he knew Michael was gay and probably trying on his mom's makeup and dresses. He probably got stuck at that age plus all the fame. He really needed help. Still doesn't excuse his actions.

And the hasty "wardrobe malfunction" lie that first Justin and then Janet tried to sell failed to account for the fact that there was NO red bra. The red was just a ruffle on top of the tearaway leather cup. There was nothing under the cup which they clearly planned to have Justin pull off, since she stood perfectly still in position for him to do it and wore a nipple shield bought specifically for this performance.

It was a planned stunt. Very stupid, not at all deserving of the hate she got, but still planned nonetheless.

r99 in the Leaving Neverland documentary it was stated by two Jackson victims that he had sex with kids. He tried to sodomize one of them.

R101 You mean stated by two opportunistic money grubbers?? They wouldn’t have a reason to lie now would they$?

Wade seems like a lying asshole. But James seems sincere and has no incentive to lie. Regardless of whether Michael attempted sex or not. The relationships were inappropriate and exploitative.

Michael Jackson raped every one of those boys that became his special friend.

I don't think he raped Macaulay because Macaulay was intelligent, outgoing and already rich and famous. Maybe he used him as a defender. The boys who he could abuse were from poor backgrounds..

Michael fucked every one of those little boys.

Well, except for Ryan White.

[quote]You mean stated by two opportunistic money grubbers?? They wouldn’t have a reason to lie now would they$?

They've never received any money at all. And why would you go on tv to talk about getting your asshole licked and fingered at age seven if it didn't really happen?

R107 not for lack of trying. people will say anything for a chance of a huge pay day .Wouldn’t you?

Their stories are believable, and were corroborated by others.

Michael Jackson was a kid fucker. Deal with it. Just because he was a famous pop star doesn't mean he couldn't have done horrible things. Celebrities are human beings.

He was creepy and had serious mental issues. He didn’t fuck kids. He didn’t fuck anything. There is a chance he might have inappropriately touched some kids though. Deal with it. Ps. I hate him and his no talent whispercoo fat sister , lets get back to shitting on her.

I don't think Janet had as much talent as Michael but her music is so much better. Her albums from Control to Damita Jo are far interesting production wise, lyrical wise and artistically than most of Michael's discography. Michael only had two really great albums: Off The Wall and Thriller. He peaked too early.

R111 His peaks were Everest compared to Control and Damita jo being Snowdonia in comparison.

R112 Im talking quality of music too. Not popularity. Quincy Jones is responsible for Michael's peaks. Once Michael ditched Q he started declining.

R113 If you want to go that route than Janet is not responsible for “control” or “Damita jo” .Terry Lewis and Jimmy Jam are. Janet’s career declined with out them and her music is now mostly forgotten by the new generation. Her songs are grossly out-streamed and out-viewed by all her contemporaries (including Michael)

is janeet a white lady yet???

R114 I know but she was smart enough to keep the producers who made her a breakout star thus she had more good albums than her brother. I don't give a shit about sales or popularity because it's irrelevant to the musical quality. Neither Jacksons are geniuses like Hendrix, Aretha, Bob Dylan or Marvin Gaye though.

I like Janet's music better than Michael's too. However, her low streaming numbers point to the fact that she doesn't have a transcendent pop song among her arsenal. She has ten number ones, and yet none of them crack 100 million on Spotify.

True music lovers don't give a shit about popularity or Spotify streams because it is not indicative of quality. McDonald's is popular but it's not considered fine dining. Most people prefer simple songs with simple beats and lyrics. Because most people just want something to dance or sing to. Michael's songs were perfect pop tunes. They were universal because he avoided serious topics and kept it simple. He was all style and pageantry. Janet's issue is her music was always more R&B and socially conscious and she took heavy influence from Prince. That limited her appeal. Once that 90s R&B sound died out in the 2000s, so did her popularity.

Justin at his peak hotness.

I disagree somewhat. Admiring a song based on how or why it connects with people is just as valid a way to approach music as any other approach. There are things that make a transcendent pop song universally appealing. Girls Just Want to Have Fun, for instance, is catchy as hell, and fun. Janet doesn't have a song with as a memorable hook as that one. Now you might not like Girls Just Want to Have Fun, and that's fine, but to me, it's proven itself as a pop song because of its enduring popularity and its place in pop culture.

Mcdonalds may be popular, but it's also cheap. Music doesn't have a price for entry. It doesn't cost 500 dollars to listen to Joni Mitchell, and 5 dollars to listen to Katy Perry, so good catchy pop music can get really popular on Spotify from any artist on the platform. Now there are catchy songs that aren't popular on Spotify, that's true, but Janet has had a lot of support from the record labels and radio play in her career, so her catchiest songs should stream better than they do. It's because she doesn't have a transcendent pop song.

No great revelation here. I mean...she had on a NIPPLE COVER under her costume. GTFOH

Remember when she decided to be a Jackson and get into an argument with her teen niece all caught on home surveillance camera? I think they had it scrubbed from the net but I saw it and she was a raging cunt to Paris. Probably jealous of Paris’ good natural looks and white skin. Oh and yes MJ was a disgusting pedo who ruined kids lives but bought off their equally vile parents to be quiet. He was a child but also had adult sexual desires sadly it was for children. He was gross and hated being black. Yet blacks act like he’s their Jesus. Prince was supremely talented over MJ (the dancer and barely a song writer) Prince wrote produced and played on ALL his own songs and hits for others. He never fucked a child, he never had a place to bring little kids and give them “Jesus Juice” (drinking wine with kids sounds like you’re ready to loosen them up for a sick fucking time) I didn’t care when MJ died I did when Prince did.

MJ definitely molested those kids, he was a textbook pedophile. And of course the two guys in the Leaving Neverland doc talked in detail about it

Im not sure why we're spending so much time discussing Michael being a pedo on a Janet thread. Janet and Michael were essentially estranged for a greater part of the late 90s and early 2000s, and Janet did not keep that a secret. They barely spoke. Even after the 2005 trial his family only interacted with him during interventions because of his drug use. Janet mostly speaks fondly of their memories as kids and teenagers, they did not interact that much as adults.

I agree with whoever said Janet's career would have cooled off even if Nipplegate didn't happen. Beyonce totally dominated the music scene during this time and Janet decided to make ATL style R&B with Jermaine Dupri; a realm she had no place in. Hell, Ciara was doing better than Janet. But I don't think she really cared. Janet had been at the top of industry for over a decade and was likely bored. Her only hope would be to do a hit pop album with Jam and Lewis during the mid 2000s and that never happened, so her heyday was over.

Those two liars’ stories sank with their timeline issue about being molested in the Neverland Train Station, which wasn’t even built at the time they said Michael molested them there.

[quote] since she stood perfectly still in position for him to do it and wore a nipple shield bought specifically for this performance.

Janet had multiple piercings at the time, so it wasn’t odd that she was wearing one. Before you come on here to give your stupid opinion, make sure you know what the fuck you’re talking about first.

Paris debunked the myth that Janet slapped her. It didn’t happen, despite some of you wanting it to be a thing.

Here’s one of the producers from MTV being interviewed about the incident. She clearly says that it was unplanned and that Janet was seen crying afterwards.

They don’t ask people with cooling careers to headline a SB halftime show. Janet’s previous album at the time (ALL FOR YOU) had given her her biggest first week sales ever, her second longest running Hot 100 #1 and yet another Grammy to add to her mantle. She was still one of the preeminent dance-pop divas at the time. Her decline at radio was solely based on the fact that Les Moonves (who has since gotten his well-deserved professional comeuppance) had her blacklisted. She was disinvited to the Grammys that year and banned from MTV and all Clearchannel radio stations. He even said that heads would roll after her self-help/autobio True You went #1 on the NY Times Bestseller list. So yeah, fuck him.

Meanwhile, Janet has been inducted into the RNR Hall of Fame, her RN 1814 album was recently added to the Library of Congress National Recording Registry, and her legacy remains strong despite the fact that she’s the least embarrassingly attention-starved of her contemporaries on social media. Last week’s Dancing With The Stars was dedicated to her catalogue, and her influence can clearly still be seen in many of today’s dance/pop, R&B and Hip-Hop artists.

R128, She also has a video defending Ashlee Simpson for lip syncing at SNL and says Ashlee wasn’t at fault.

R127, Janet was clearly getting into Paris’ face and yelling at her even if she didn’t slap her..

Not only is this one of the best videos by a female of all time, but the song is pure ear candy. It was the historic 7th top 5 Hot 100 hit from the RN album, tying her (sort of) with her brother and Springsteen as the only 3 artists with an album released in the ‘80s to contain 7 top 10 hits (Thriller and BITUSA’s singles went top 10, but all of RN’s hits went top 5). No album has matched the feat to this day.

This is just not that interesting. Is Timberlake a douche ? Yes. Was she unfairly blamed for this? Yes. It didn’t destroy her career and she just went on living her life. Justin Timberlake made more shitty music.

[quote] Janet was clearly getting into Paris’ face and yelling at her even if she didn’t slap her..

The long-standing rumor around here has been that Janet slapped Paris. It didn’t happen. Yelling at someone and slapping them are two totally different things.

She’s releasing her own documentary on A&E in January. That’s the one I want to see.

R126, the nipple shield was bought for this performance and the jeweler was told to watch for a big surprise. Janet's choreographer also told MTV days before that something shocking would happen. So unless you can find the mystery red bra that never existed you can shut the fuck up since you clearly don't know anything about what really happened.

The Jackson family including Janet were trying to get Katherine to sign over custody of michaels kids so they could get some cash out of his estate.

I don’t see her as a victim but I do hate Justin Timberlake and wish him the worst. If this doc takes him down, then I’ll pretend I care about Janet like all the free Britney losers do.

R138, Justin was already cancelled over the Britney Spears doc. And he gets re cancelled every year around Super Bowl time. I don’t care what happens from here as he’s not in our faces or overexposed as he used to be.

His superstar days are already behind him

[quote] The Jackson family including Janet were trying to get Katherine to sign over custody of michaels kids so they could get some cash out of his estate.

Janet Jackson is worth hundreds of millions of dollars. Why the fuck would she want to get her hands on Michael’s money? Lol, I swear, some of you people are incorrigible.

Janet and Madonna made far more intereseting music than Michael. Michael streams well today because his music did have more cross-genre appeal than their music does. Countless rap stars cite Michael as an influence. As far as quality goes, Michael rarely took any actual risks. The only risk he took after Thriller was "They Don't Care About Us" and that's it. Madonna was the boldest of all three and Janet wasn't far behind. Can you imagine Michael ever making a song about Rope Burn like Janet did? HA! And he sure as hell would never have released a ballad dedicated to AIDS victims at the peak of his fame like Madonna did.

There's a site called chartmasters that actually does a great job of documenting artists' sales. But the main person on the site is a Michael Jackson hardcore fan. He said that the reason Madonna's (and by implication Janet, since her music does even worse) music doesn't stream well today is because her music isn't substantive. What BS is that!? How are Michael Jackson's songs "substantive"? Michael Jackson had maybe two or three "substantive" pop songs in his entire career. Madonna had songs like "Live to Tell", "Oh Father", "Papa Don't Preach", etc. while Janet had songs like "This Time", "Rhythm Nation", "State of the World", etc. Just because something is popular doesn't make it "substantive".

Janet's career in the mainstream was pretty much over by the turn of the Millennium. She was more of an R&B act after that, and even then she was already on the decline in the early 2000s, before the Super Bowl

Michael was talented as an entertainer but his material was vapid compared to Madonna, Janet, Prince and George Michael who had songs about serious topics. Even New Wave and rock artists in the 80s had social commentary. Michael kept repeating Thriller and did not grow artistically. Bad is incredibly dated and Dangerous was the sign of him copying trends to stay relevant. Janet was bigger than Michael in the 90s hence he sought her out to collaborate on Scream

R144, agreed with everything you said except for Janet being bigger. History and Dangerous were both massive hits (despite sucking, quality wise), far bigger than any of Janet's albums. Janet's albums MAY have done better in America but globally, there is just no comparison.

Off the Wall and Thriller were Michael Jackson's only good albums, and Quincy Jones has to take a LOT of credit for both. After Thriller, MJ REALLY started to go insane and of course that's when his sickness with little boys really took over. Bad only had two or three decent songs and by then MJ was a full-on freak. His little boy obsession took over his life and he was never in public without them, and they were featured in his videos, concerts etc. He was just completely off the rails.

It's amazing that the biggest male pop star of all time only had two good albums and the rest were kind of crappy.

[quote]And he sure as hell would never have released a ballad dedicated to AIDS victims at the peak of his fame like Madonna did.

Janet's Together Again was dedicated to friends she lost to AIDS, as well. It's her biggest single globally, and one of the biggest selling singles of all time.

[quote]She was more of an R&B act after that, and even then she was already on the decline in the early 2000s, before the Super Bowl

Read R129 and learn something, because you're COMPLETELY misguided.

I have no memory whatsoever of Together Again. And r148 Janet was pretty much over in the mainstream after the Velvet Rope. That was her last big hurrah, after that her career was in decline.

I see Janbot has entered the motherfucking building! I was wondering when he would show up.

[quote] It's her biggest single globally, and one of the biggest selling singles of all time.

Jabba, sit the fuck down, you homeless gorilla. Together Again didn't even sell as many copies as I'm Too Sexy. No one gives a shit about ManNet and no one ever will.

As much as I personally have ragged on Janet here over the years, she truly got the short end of the stick regarding the Nipplegate. Justin got off way too easy. He screwed Janet over in addition to playing a role in Britney’s downfall.

It gives me wood to see his career slumping. He’s a cunt xxxx infinity.

THIS is what the failing New York Times decided was worthy of a documentary in 2021? A publicity stunt that backfired?

I thought the ninja star pastie or piercing was gross.

So basically the whole documentary is just going to be people saying Janet Jackson who has been rich and famous her whole life is oppressed because she’s a black woman??

Pass.

[quote]Janet was pretty much over in the mainstream after the Velvet Rope. That was her last big hurrah, after that her career was in decline.

You repeat the same thing in every Janet thread and you remain in the wrong every time. Janet’s biggest first week sales came in 2001, along with her second longest-running #1, which was also the longest-running Hot 100 single that year. She also won another Grammy and was declared MTV’s first icon in 2001. The previous year, she starred in a blockbuster film and garnered a #1 hit from the soundtrack, which made her the first artist to have a #1 in the 80s, the 90s and the 2000s. This was all AFTER The Velvet Rope.

But you tried it.

[quote] I have no memory whatsoever of Together Again.

Sure, Jan.

R155 is embarrassingly ignorant.

R157 God her bloated fat face in the video.

[quote] The previous year, she starred in a blockbuster film

Please, Jabba, you fat liar. She was barely in the film. It was Eddie Murphy's film. Nobody went to see Janet.

r156 most of America wasn't checking for Janet after the late 90s.

Even Madonna's biggest fans are well aware that Confessions On the Dancefloor was her last big hit and after that she really started to slide and lose relevancy, but for some reason Janet's fans are totally delusional and think she was still a major star in the 2000s.

The last time HAGdonna was relevant, Paris Hilton was still in middle school.

Oh puh-lease, R162. Madonna stans are the most deluded bunch there is. Despite the ghastly plastic surgery, the embarrassing social media antics and the horrendously bad Madame Flop era (which she's STILL trying to make happen three years later), they are still under some fantastical delusion that she's a force to be reckoned with. It's sad, but funny just the same.

Too bad we didn't get to see some Timbersnake.

No they're not r164. Many Madonna fans are sad at what she's become. You see it on DL constantly.

I wonder how HAGdonna feel having never been nominated for an Oscar.

Taking notes...

Pop music is the domain for the young now 2000s radio was extremely ageist. Cher, Toni, Janet and Madonna were still able to get hits in the 90s. Once the teen pop stars like Britney, Timberlake, Usher, Christina, Pink and Destiny's Child, they replaced most of the older pop stars over the age of 35.

You mean all these 73 years later, they're creatively deficient enough to need to drag out and up this purposely pre-planned PR stunt "scandal"?! LOL

Also Madonna stopped being cool with teens after the 90s. Ray of Light was the last time she had any impact. Same with Janet with The Velvet Rope. Britney replaced Madonna as the pop queen in 1999. Then came Ashanti, Beyonce, Gwen Stefani, Kelly Clarkson, Rihanna, Lady Gaga and Katy Perry who all had reigns. Madonna and Janet still had hits in the early 2000s. Madonna fared a bit better with Confessions on a Dancefloor in 2005 but after that she was old news and became irrelevant in The US.

[quote]The previous year, she starred in a blockbuster film

It wasn't a blockbuster. Nutty Professor II made about half what the first film (which was a true blockbuster) made.

This thread was a good read until the anti-Janet troll and Janbot arrived. Can we ever have a real discussion about Janet without you crazy ass bitches?

We really can't have any nuanced discussion about a female pop star without the rabid trolls invading. The threads on Alanis, Fiona and Tori are more balanced in comparison to the Madge, Janet and Britney threads.

I can't believe HBO Max wasted their time on this shit. There are so many interesting subjects for a documentary and they blow their fucking load on Janet's titty at the Super Bowl?

r174 just be grateful the "ancient white fags" troll hasn't shown up yet. He almost always appears in any thread about a female singer.

[quote] We really can't have any nuanced discussion about a female pop star without the rabid trolls invading. The threads on Alanis, Fiona and Tori are more balanced in comparison to the Madge, Janet and Britney threads.

It's the same with Whitney and Mariah threads. The rabid trolls ruin any thread about female pop stars from the 90s onward.

I should say from the 80s/90s onward.

Janet attracts the worst people.

To say that Janet was all but forgotten by the late 90s is inaccurate. She released All For You in the early 2000s and had a big hit with the title track and with a couple of other singles…the album itself was pretty mediocre and her popularity was starting to wind down after that. If nipplegate never happened I’m pretty sure her career trajectory would be the same, just less expedited.

R173 So it was a good thread until the fifth reply?

Chris Rock said it best:

[quote] You can't just whip out a 40 year old titty that's your man's titty. That is your man's titty 40 year old titty your man's titty. 20 year old titty community titty. That's for all to see.

Fun starts at eh 4:50 mark

[quote]She released All For You in the early 2000s and had a big hit with the title track and with a couple of other singles…the album itself was pretty mediocre and her popularity was starting to wind down after that.

r180 I disagree...All For You was a great album. Sexy, slick and laid back. I think its her most underrated work, mostly due to poor single choice. But sonically I remember it being very pleasing to listen too.

[quote] It wasn't a blockbuster.

Inaccurate. Any film that tops the $100 million mark at the box office is considered a blockbuster. Nutty II did just that.

[quote] If nipplegate never happened I’m pretty sure her career trajectory would be the same, just less expedited.

Disagree. Her career trajectory had been nothing but up since 1986’s Control. There is nothing indicating that she would have seen a decline in popularity without the SB incident.

[quote] Inaccurate. Any film that tops the $100 million mark at the box office is considered a blockbuster.

Inaccurate.

She would declined because of her age (her label stopped promoting her heavily starting with All For You) and her change in sound. She kept her image sexualized despite nearing 40. She switched from two amazing producers to one mediocre one because she was fucking him. She would have gone the way of Mariah, kept saving a few minor hits but it's likely Damita Jo would have been her last hurrah.

I don’t even like Timberlake but this wasn’t his doing. Major PR stunt to get a sexual “OMFG” moment from their collab. It worked and backfired so the network went into major crow control. That hag producer lying about it not being a stunt. Fat Bitch Please!. Everyone knew it was except middle american religious fraus. It was easier to blame the guy than the girl , make JT the fall guy as if he harassed her so she got the sympathy for being a harassed woman of color. That has been cunt wanted her floppy titty to be seen to get some glimmer back on her from her 80-90s pop star reign. It was the age of younger prettier non pedo related pop tarts. jj needed a win. She had to get controversy and a sexual stunt is the way. I know a few people who work in the industry where they put huge shows on and everyone knows it was planned and she was a raging cunt about the backlash. She wanted it to be gasp worthy but also make people want her like she was a 23 year old pop slut again. Sorry Janet we remember you as the fat girl who wore huge blazers singing about controlling your life through Jimmy Jam and Terry Lewis’ music! She defended her pedo brother, abused her abused sister who told the world what a fucked up fam they had (shout out LaToya) and DID SLAP her niece , which Paris backtracked once the fam got to her. Also JJ resents Paris’ looks is 100% accurate. And the fam hates how WHITE his NO BIO kids are and they still get MJ Money! The Blanket freaky one is half Indian and no one knows what else. The first son is Dr Arnie Klein’s sperm and the white trash fat receptionists Debbie’s wonky eggs. She carried them but hated every second of it yet loved the paycheck. Paris had the fat ugly moms egg but the good looking British actors sperm (he was in Oliver Twist as a kid so MJ was of course jacking it to him as an adult and realized he’d be a great sperm donor) I can’t believe we’re wasting a second on anything Jackson in 2021.

R188 = Justin’s mom.

R188 is in the industry.

R188 is a loon. I just skimmed that mess and I already have a headache.

[quote]Inaccurate.

No, but you tried it.

No one is checking for Janet. The next time she makes big news will be when she drops dead.

I think I see the problem: JanBot still thinks it's 1994. That explains its delusion that Janet is still some powerhouse celebrity and the laughable notion at R184 that $100 million b.o. = blockbuster.

Dear, $100 million at the box office for a major studio release hasn't been impressive since the early 90s. The reported budget for Nutty Professor II was $80+ million not including marketing. Which means it had to make twice that just to break even. It just barely did at $166 million worldwide and did poorly outside the US. The blockbusters that year were making 3x that and had huge international numbers.

Janet made more money from Tyler Perry movies like Why Did I Get Married? and its sequel and For Colored Girls. She was not a blockbuster actress at all. But she is much a better actress than Madonna. She was likable on Good Times, Diff'rent Strokes and Fame.

I like this song she made for Why Did I Get Married Too? She never released it as a single though.

She really should have never gotten the nose job. She looked more like Dorothy Dandridge when young.

Janet knows the truth about Macaulay.

She should acknowledge her first two albums because they weren't awful. They were just early 80s bubblegum R&B with a ton of synths like early New Edition.

She was nothing without Jam and Lewis.

I liked some of Jermaine, La Toya and Rebbie's songs.

La Toya is an even worse singer than Janet, she can't stay on key at all. But her early 80s albums were good synth-funk jams. Like Janet, La Toya was a Prince fan. Prince tried to date La Toya but said she was too frigid for his taste.

Tito tried to make his three sons happen. They formed a boy band called 3T. They couldn't sing at all. Michael actually helped them produce their album and sang backup in some songs. Odd he tried to sabotage his brothers and sisters but helped his nephews. In the Jackson tradition, they had nose jobs.

I have no interest in sports, and I never followed Janet Jackson or Justin Timberlake. When that Super Bowl thing happened, I just rolled my eyes and thought "how stupid" and went on with my life, not thinking any more of it. Apparently this was some huge Earth-shaking event to many people all over America.

[quote]She should acknowledge her first two albums

She doesn't totally ignore them. She performed medleys from them on her Rock Witchu Tour.

[quote]La Toya is an even worse singer than Janet

Neither are bad singers. Janet's harmonies are beyond reproach and she is good in her lane. Not everyone is a gospel singer/belter.

La Toya sounds good here Acapella.

[quote] She looked more like Dorothy Dandridge when young.

Not only when she was a teen...

R203 But no one saw that tour because it was a mess.

[quote]Janet Jackson’s ill-fated Rock Witchu tour has come to a sudden end as Jackson has opted to cancel instead of reschedule all those concerts that were postponed due to her bout with vertigo. “Conflicts in the singer’s schedule” has been cited as the cause of the cancellations, but poor ticket sales are the more likely culprit. In all, seven shows have been cancelled, including stops in Montreal, Boston and Philadelphia. From the onset, the Rock Witchu tour was plagued with problems. First, the planned European leg of the tour was axed, then Janet began getting vertigo-induced migraines that forced the cancellation of a handful of shows and finally opening act LL Cool J abandoned the bill after all the false starts. The end of the Rock Witchu drama does mean Janet is available to open for that Jackson 5 reunion that isn’t happening.

Speaking of flop tours...

R205 She didn't need that nose job. That's the issue. She resembled the great beauty of Dandridge better because she also had a naturally similar nose. Dorothy's nose was rounded. Janet got the nose job that made her nose more concave. Janet still looked better in the 90s and 2000s but her original nose was fine.

*Still looked good

R207, I hope Madonna reached out to Janet to learn how to cope, since Janet has so much experience with tours flopping.

I am so sick of the Janet vs Madonna battles. Both are irrelevant nowadays. Just like Britney and Beyoncé are increasingly irrelevant to Gen Z. Pop music was always in the domain of the young.

Janbot and Vadgestan have been battling it out on Datalounge for nearly a decade now.

It's funny because Madonna and Janet never had much in common.

R213 Yep. Madonna's music is very different from Janet. Janet is compared to Michael but her music never sounded anything alike to his. Michael and Prince got comparisons all the time and again, they had nothing in common musically. People will compare pop stars if they are both women or both of the same race regardless of how different they sound.

True about Michael and Prince. Their music was very different. Michael was a safe, family-friendly pop singer with innocuous songs and Prince was a down and dirty sex machine.

Nobody has ever been better than Prince.

The only time I felt Madonna's music sounded similar to Janet's was during her "Bedtime Stories" era, and that was due to leaning heavily on the R&B/Hip Hop-infused Pop of that period. "Bedtime Stories" and "janet." have quite a lot in common.

Prince was peerless. His influence was so vast and huge. He wrote for dozens of other artists. He was a genius. I love him but a lot of his music was never accessible to the public. He was only mainstream from his debut up until Purple Rain. He went more avant-garde and experimental and cranked out some pop hits occasionally since he still needed the money.

One could argue that Teena Marie, one of Prince's peers, was just as talented as him (her debut album was released the same year as his). She was a phenom of a singer, and she wrote, produced, arranged, and played most of the instruments on her albums. Rick James, who was kind of the precursor to Prince, was also an incredibly gifted multi-instrumentalist. His drug addiction caused him to self-destruct before reaching his full potential.

I would bring up Stevie Wonder, but he's from an entirely different era than Prince and wasn't his contemporary; more like an early influence.

[quote] She should acknowledge her first two albums

Why? She doesn't even acknowledge her first child.

Teena Marie was an incredible talent who never got the recognition she deserved. She should've been a huge star in the 80s.

Wasn't Teena Marie signed onto Motown? If she was that explains why her career never took off as much as it deserved to. Motown sucked at that point.

Janet Jackson is so boring.

Does this bullshit need a documentary? No.

We need some more "industry insider" insights from R188!

r201, 3T didn't really take off in the United States, but they totally "happened" overseas. They were a bankable act overseas and the three brothers toured heavily during the 90s.

[quote] Wasn't Teena Marie signed onto Motown? If she was that explains why her career never took off as much as it deserved to. Motown sucked at that point.

I believe Marie had already migrated to CBS or Epic records (one of the Columbia labels) by the time she had her one and only hit, Lovergirl.

She had a few singles prior to that which should have been much bigger hits. I Need Your Lovin' is still one of my all time favorite songs and it's a gem. Square Biz was also terrific. Those songs did better on the R&B chart than they did on the pop chart but they very definitely should have crossed over fully.

Teena's "Naked To the World" is one of my favorite albums of the 80s. It should've been a HUGE crossover hit, it was just as good as everything else the pop stars were turning out at the time.

Will these docs discuss when Lena Horne didn't want Janet to play her in an ABC television film of her life because the classy and legendary Horne didn't want a cheap whore like Janet to play her?

Lena could command a stage with her voice and presence. Janet had to rely on her titties because she has no talent.

Lena Horne was very light-skinned and racially ambiguous. Janet is brown-skinned and looks just Black. Part of Lena's story is she refused to pass for white or Latina despite the insistence of the studio execs. Casting Janet would have been ludicrous. It's just as ludicrous as when beautiful light-skinned Afro-Latina Zoe Saldana was cast as dark-skinned, homely Nina Simone or when the dark-skinned Chadwick Boseman (RIP) was cast as the very light-skinned, racially ambiguous Thurgood Marshall.

Teena Marie’s “I need your loving” and “Oh la la la” are better than anything the whispercoo chubbette Janet ever did.

Absolutely r230. Teena was fabulous, so many great songs. She NEVER got the respect her talent deserved.

Teena really had soul. People really thought she was a black woman. You don't hear that many blue-eyed R&B singers like her anymore.

Janet is light-ish brown, not brown-brown. While she does not closely resemble Horne, she is more comparable in looks to Horne than short, muscular, brown Angela Bassett was to lanky, light brown Tina Turner.

I’d love to know how some of you fat fagg@t$ in here who constantly bring up Janet’s weight look. Then again, no I wouldn’t. The shock would be too great.

Teena was marvelous, but this is not a Teena thread.

[quote] beautiful light-skinned Afro-Latina Zoe Saldana

Lawd, R234 be PRESST, hunty!

Janet is medium brown. Same complexion as Nia Long and Whitney Houston. She is not light skinned. Never was. She only looked lighter in the 80s because of makeup and lighting. The only light skinned Jackson was La Toya. Lena Horne could pass for white. None of The Jacksons before or after surgery.

[quote] Same complexion as Nia Long and Whitney Houston

Whitney was browner than Janet. She was more along the lines of Regina King's complexion. Regina is darker than Janet.

....

Okay Whitney was a shade darker but neither Whitney or Janet resembled Lena Horne. The point is Lena Horne was very fair skinned and was mistaken for Latina or Mediterranean. Janet and Whitney are both pretty but unambiguously black girls.

Alicia Keys, Paula Patton, Jennifer Beals or Michael Michelle would be better as Lena Horne.

The major point of Lena's success was she was light skinned with thin lips and a tiny nose and thus nonthreatening to white audiences. Dorothy Dandridge in comparison was viewed as still "too dark" and it affected her career. Many darker skinned entertainers fled to London or Paris for that reason because they got more work.

R185 I like Janet, but you’re delusional. Every pop star from her era has seen a decline beginning in the 2000s, it’s normal as pop stars age. You think Janet would have somehow escaped what happened to all the others?

Angela Bassett may have had a darker complexion but she captured a lot of Tina Turner in her portrayal. Same with brown skinned Denzel Washington as light skinned Malcolm X. But in the case of Lena, she practically looked Caucasian and could pass as someone of Southern European ancestry but refused. Tina and Malcolm were light skinned but looked completely Black in their facial features. They were not passing for anything other than Black. If Janet was playing Eartha Kitt or Dorothy Dandridge who were light skinned, it would not have been a big deal because they weren't racially ambiguous. But Lena's story involves her ability to pass and refusing not to. There's a difference between being light skinned and having a physical appearance that shows you're admixed. That's my issue with Zoe Saldana playing Nina Simone and Chadwick Boseman as Thurgood. Their acting is not the issue but the physical appearance of those people played a big role in their lives There's so many black actors of different phenotypes. But Hollywood is too lazy or too fiscally conservative to seek out less-known actors. I'm not blaming the actors. The casting directors and execs are at fault.

Or when Sidney Poitier portrayed Thurgood Marshall. It just wasn’t believable. Love Sidney but no. Same with Ben Vereeniging as Chicken George in ROOTS. But the white casting directors don’t know about the subtleties of race and colorism in the AA community. There’s a growing number of black casting directors, so maybe it will change. I hope.

^Good points.

[quote] If Janet was playing Eartha Kitt or Dorothy Dandridge

Her name had been bandied about to play both.

[quote] Her name had been bandied about to play both.

But then they remembered she can't act and couldn't open a door, box office wise.

[quote] Ben Vereeniging

Oh, dear.

LaToya looked like she could've been Polynesian before she messed up her face.

La Toya looked so different from her siblings. I wonder if Katharine had an affair with a white man

[quote]But Lena's story involves her ability to pass and refusing not to.

Well r243, no one will ever get to see Lena's story on the big screen now. That ship has certainly sailed, I dont think any studio would think it's profitable to make a movie about her now. Even when Janet was a contender for these type parts, interest in Lena's and Dorothy's life stories was already fading.

That has generally been the problem with legacy black entertainers. Too selective about the casting of their biopic, dont want unsavory details about their real life portrayed, and overestimate interest. They usually die before the biopic can even come to fruition, and then their families rarely come to an agreement. I'm glad Lifetime is now the one stop shop for these type movies so they can actually be created while the person is still alive. I hope Janet does hers before she is 90, good lord.

Sadly, Lena Horne is half forgotten today.

[quote]But then they remembered she can't act

But you tried it.

Janet is a decent actress. But it depends. She was pretty awful in Poetic Justice but pretty good in those Tyler Perry movies.

Thanks, R252. You proved my point. Janet can't act.

Don't be so bitter, R254. Just because she achieved more by the time she was 25 than you did in your first 50 years...

Keep boring us, Jabba, you fat gorilla.

^Homo says what?

R257 is dialing in on a rotary phone from the 80s

^Are those chocolate chip cookies that you're smelling?

R249 it looks like she had an affair with E.T.

r260

r249 Nah. I think La Toya looks a lot like Joseph on the book cover of her memoir "Growing Up Jackson".

I feel bad for LaToya.

Has she used all of her coupons from Baja Fresh?

R262 True. She does look like him. I am wondering if she bleached her skin earlier than the rest. It's entirely possible she was naturally light-skinned but given how much the Jacksons are self-hating, I wouldn't be surprised.

[quote] I am wondering if she bleached her skin earlier than the rest.

La Toya has always been light, you stupid ho.

looks like Janet has always been fat

Aww, Janet was so adorable there!

The Jacksons were so much better looking before they messed up their noses.

Michael’s first rhinoplasty was an improvement. I thought so.

But obviously the subsequent work he had done all but destroyed his face.

LaToya looks Samoan in the pic at R265

That's Jabba's favorite word- Samoa.

R271 is forever Janbot's bitch. It's lovely to witness, lol.

Tonight at 10 bitches!

I don't believe the (planned) appearance of the nipple stalled her career. I think it was the publicity campaign around it. The denials, lies and fake blame. If she had owned it she may have gotten a lot of mileage out of it. But people saw through the ruse and lost respect for her. Buh-bye.

Madonna would never have feigned shock and innocence over such a stunt.

[quote]I don't believe the (planned) appearance of the nipple stalled her career. I think it was the publicity campaign around it.

You're naive and stupid as fuck if you believe that, even in 2004, a puritanical, hypocritical, pre-social media America would have rallied behind a black woman whose breast was publicly exposed for 9/16ths of a second by a scuzzy white boy, regardless of how world renown or accomplished she was. But fuck 'em. She'll always be rich and famous, and she went on to accomplish a lot more after the debacle. What's more, the man responsible for her blacklisting (Moonves) is a pariah in the business now, the then-FCC head Michael Powell later publicly admitted how much he greatly overreacted, and Justina Timberwimp gets re-cancelled every February during Super Bowl season.

[quote]Madonna would never have feigned shock and innocence over such a stunt.

As a white woman, Madonna would never have been publicly vilified as much, either.

Still don’t really know whose idea it was. They allude to it being her stylist’s, but did she really not know her boob would be exposed?

The Jackson clan have never been known to be truthful. Lies about everything.

Not that I think JT is innocent, but I can see where he felt he had to say something after. He had a career to think about too. And yes, I believe Janet was unfairly vilified over something that was ultimately a nothingburger. But she said nothing right after, and she never fully explained what went down. Was all this orchestrated around her and was she exposed against her will? I don’t think she’s that naive.

Just watched the "Malfunction" documentary. I think it's OK but it's absolutely not a great documentary. The most interesting part of the documentary was the earlier part when they discuss Janet's early career. It spends a lot of time talking about the cultural shift going on in the 80s and 90s with conservatives. IT makes the case that conservatives absolutely wanted this black woman to fail and be humiliated. It almost seems to paint Janet as THE vicitm of the culture wars. I don't think that's true though. Madonna received way more backlash than Janet did throughout her career from conservatives. And it started in like 1984! Were there any conservatives complaining about Janet in the 90s when she got raunchier? I don't remember that at all. There were others like Eminem and Britney who were criticized far more than Janet. I still do feel bad for Janet though. It was clear that the stunt didn't go according to plan and that she ended up humiliated. But I do think that the anger against Timberlake is misplaced.

R279 nope, Madonna is white and therefore didn’t have to toe the line like Janet. Also, can you not always insert Madonna into every conversation for once? She has zero to do with a documentary about Janet and the wardrobe malfunction.

The documentary was about how Janet was THE victim of the culture wars. It seems to exist in a weird silo and it seems to pretend that Janet was the sole target of moral majority and that there was some kind of decades long built-up conservative anger towards her which isn't true at all. And Janet did not "toe the line" in the late 80s and 90s when she was at her commercial peak.. She made raunchier music and more explicit videos yet she largely escaped the kind of criticism Madonna got. I bring Madonna up because she endured A LOT more criticism than Janet did from conservatives. Janet suffered the way she did because she did what she did at the Superbowl. Don't get me wrong, the amount of heat she took for that action was really disproportionate to the action itself. But let's not act like this was all because she was a black woman. No, if anyone had done what Janet did at the Superbowl, they would have received the same amount of vitriol. The ultimate mistake Janet made was getting in the way of douchebag Les Monves.

YAAS! Janet was a victim of the culture wars! And TRANS POCs pioneered gay rights and threw the bricks.

This revisionism is very destructive.

r282

[quote]Part of Lena's story is she refused to pass for white or Latina despite the insistence of the studio execs.

The studio didn't want her to pass as Latina, that's bullshit from Lena's one woman B'way show which is heavy on the bullshit.

Lena Horne's "white look," besides the fact that's she's very light skinned, was achieved with plastic surgery. As you can see by this picture of her as a teenager below, she looked very African. The Lena Horne nose talked about above was from a surgeon's knife, SEVERAL surgeon's knives.

Otherwise, of course Janet could never play Lena in a biopic, she'd be playing herself using Lena's story as a vehicle. The biggest difference for me is that Lena could really sing, Janet...well, no.

NOBODY got more shit than Madonna did back then. If you weren't around in the 80s you have no fucking idea. She was vilified by conservatives, and conversely feminists. Nothing like it exists today.

Does everyone wear star stickies on their nips?

Thank you R279. Couldn't have said it better myself.

^This comment was meant for R280. R279, you can sit down somewhere.

R285 then someone should make a documentary about that, but apparently there’s no interest

Madonna sought the controversy. It’s how she built her career. The ageist remarks she hears now probably bother her more.

A socio-cultural doc about Madonna and the era she became famous in would be interesting.

Fuck all of you racist queens. Hopefully when Madge keels over from a butt-injection gone wrong, you'll off yourselves as well.

Nobody gives a fuck about Janet. They never did and they never will. They clearly had to lie big time to justify some bullshit documentary that no one is watching.

[quote]Nobody gives a fuck about Janet.

Well r293 someone gives a fuck since this thread is almost 300 replies and the documentary is also trending on Twitter. For person who doesn't give a fuck you seem to have strong feelings about it.

^ Janet's fan

[quote]Well [R293] someone gives a fuck since this thread is almost 300 replies and the documentary is also trending on Twitter. For person who doesn't give a fuck you seem to have strong feelings about it.

My thoughts exactly, lol.

Did Janet marry that Arab guy just so he could have an heir?

Madonna was a white woman but people also forget she was "ethnic" by 1980s standards by most of Middle America. She refused to change her very Italian first name to something like "Melissa" or "Mandy" or something. And because she was born Catholic and used Catholic imagery in her music videos. The Catholic Church always had a bone to pick with her. "Like A Virgin", "Like A Prayer" and "Justify My Love" seem quant to today but in the 80s, they were likened to hardcore porn. Then the "Sex" book controversy in the early 80s which almost destroyed her career. Madge actually defended Janet after the Super Bowl incident because she empathized with being vilified by conservatives.

Janet is like Vanessa Williams. Vanessa was the first Black Miss America and had to resign after it was discovered she posed nude and did pornographic photos with another woman. It's easy to blame racism but the platforms they were involved were so wide-reaching that I doubt a white woman in their place could have survived at the time. In the age of Kardashians and everyone having an OnlyFans, it's hard to imagine things like NippleGate and posing nude as controversial.

Also if Janet did this exact stunt in the early 90s when her career was still hot. She could have survived and it could have actually helped her career as the 90s was about shifting away from Reagan moralism. 2004, The US shifted back to conservatism under President Bush, Evangelicals got more powerful and there was fear of pedophilia and corruption of the youth. Janet was a target of their hate.

Madonna's career was not hot after 1990, the Sex book was considered desperate and distasteful. If she just posed nude like she did before, it would not hurt but she was talking about fucking animals and kids and she was doing this over 30 (back then considered 45). She was seen as a no talent whore because of that.

[quote]In the age of Kardashians and everyone having an OnlyFans, it's hard to imagine things like NippleGate and posing nude as controversial.

True. We recently had a thread about Vanessa Williams and it was mentioned what a big nothing that nude photo scandal would be today. At the time it was outrageous.

People in Madonna's circle begged her not to do the Sex book but she wouldn't listen.

R301, cool make a thread about it

Beyoncé, Britney and Rihanna all got a lot of flack for their sexualized images in the 2000s. By both conservatives and feminists who felt them bad role models. Yet you also had men making countdown clocks for The Olsen Twins turning 18 and Lindsay Lohan getting sexualized at 17 on SNL. America is just this sexually repressed country filled with hypocrisy.

r299 I don't think doing this in the early 90s would've been any better...it was the choice to do this at the Super Bowl that made it a failure.

Like its been said already, if she did this at the VMAs in front of a different audience it would've been received differently.

[quote]America is just this sexually repressed country filled with hypocrisy.

SO true. I literally laughed out loud while watching the doc when that female conservative Congresswoman (who looked butch as hell, by the way) was nearly in tears while castigating Mel Karmizin during that hearing on Capitol Hill, screaming about her kids and saying, “You knew what kind of entertainment you were selling!" You would think that Janet and Justin fucked in the middle of the stage or something. The absurdity of the outrage was so appalling that Garbage made a song called "Sex is Not the Enemy" about the whole incident.

[quote]SO true. I literally laughed out loud while watching the doc when that female conservative Congresswoman (who looked butch as hell, by the way) was nearly in tears while castigating Mel Karmizin during that hearing on Capitol Hill, screaming about her kids and saying, “You knew what kind of entertainment you were selling!"

That was INSANE. She was completely off her rocker about the stupid Super Bowl stunt. If only she'd been that passionate about issues that really mattered.

And yes, she looked and sounded like a total bulldozer.

^Yes indeed!

[quote] [R301], cool make a thread about it

Why should he? Janet threads usually become Madonna threads anyway since there's nothing to say about ol' fat ass except she's a big flop.

I just finished watching the documentary and it was pretty interesting. I found out that Justin arrived via plane and then was called into a room to have a brief conversation with Janet and her stylist right before the show, which is presumably when and where they went over the "new plan." It seems no one even knew that a red bra/bustier was allegedly going to be exposed. The entire thing was a last minute plan done behind the backs of NFL, CBS, and MTV. I doubt if they even had time to practice it so it's no wonder Justin fucked it up. If they would've just stuck to the original plan, they could've saved a lot of trouble.

But still, the reaction to it all was way overblown. The kids they were so worried about being traumatized for life as a result of seeing a woman's naked breast were the same kids who saw all the footage of 9/11 less than 3 years earlier and were constantly being bombarded with details about the War on Terror. I can promise you that every American alive has experienced and seen far worse things. It's silly that everyone was so up in arms and that Janet's entire legacy was almost destroyed over something so insignificant.

Janet really had bad judgment for that. People never stop to think the reason Janet dipped out of the spotlight was because she was embarrassed at how badly her stunt backfired. She could have manipulated the event and the backlash to make a statement on misogyny and the policing of black women's sexuality. Did a bunch of interviews, push the Damita Jo promotion through that. I think she did take personal responsibility for things and understood it was a stupid choice. She sucked in her pride and made that apology. "Waldrobe malfunction" was just to save face. Justin should have stood up better for her but he was in a tough spot because he was worried about his own career, he just went solo and still had to land his feet in the industry. He did at least express remorse in a later interview and he said he did apologize to Janet in private. Not everything had to be published about that personal interaction.

This (still) gets a lot more press than it should - which is any.

[quote] She could have manipulated the event and the backlash to make a statement on misogyny and the policing of black women's sexuality. Did a bunch of interviews, push the Damita Jo promotion through that.

She did go on SNL and poked fun at the incident. But the climate back then was very different. It was treated with such seriousness, you would think it was the McCarthy era.

The other thing was nobody was sticking up for Janet back then. Nobody had her back at the Grammy Awards a few nights later, although I think her boyfriend at the time, Jermaine Dupri, said something in her defense. Leslie Moonves wielded his influence and power.

At the same time, all these people on Twitter patting themselves on the back tweeting #JusticeforJanet, where were they in 2004? Where were those think pieces back then? People were either afraid to speak out or they didn't care.

And then years later Moonves got busted for sexual harassment and he was ruined.

[quote] Janet threads usually become Madonna threads anyway

No, they become infiltrated with lunatic Vadgestan spamming, which only reinforces the fact that HAGdonna has become such a plastic surgery nightmare and a cartoonish parody of her former self.

Madonna was one of the few who actually defended Janet. But Janet's big mistake was fucking with Les Moonves. That man is a bitter troll.

[quote]The kids they were so worried about being traumatized for life as a result of seeing a woman's naked breast were the same kids who saw all the footage of 9/11

If that's the way the documentary represented Janet's stunt, it's bullshit. The issue was that she deliberately overstepped network television rules thereby breaking her contract with CBS. TV has FCC rules, we all know that, it's not about what "traumatizing kids," it's about industry standards. It's about sponsors and lawsuits.

R316, the documentary makes it seem like conservatives had a decades-long agenda against Janet and that they wanted to make a black woman fail. It's not very good and doesn't make a convincing case at all.

[quote] no one will ever get to see Lena's story on the big screen now. That ship has certainly sailed.

Although I loathe biopics, apparently you haven't heard - Jenny Lumet (her writer granddaughter) is developing a Lena Horne biopic limited SERIES for Showtime, announced last year. I'm sure we'll never hear Lena's real singing voice in the biopic, we'll get to know her as a show biz trailblazer who suffered and suffered, her perfect marriage to the white husband, her suffering her suffering, then her 1980s show on Broadway. I'm not looking forward to it. Don't think Janet Jackson will be mentioned.

Wasn't Lena Horne a closet lez?

The fact is people forgot about Nipplegate almost immediately. The only one keeping it going is Janet herself because she has nothing else. If it wasn't for her fat, saggy titty, the ONLY thing she'd be remembered for is canceling every tour for the past 20 years because tickets sales were underwhelming.

Know one has to know that, R319.

^ No one has to know that R319.

[quote]The only one keeping it going is Janet herself because she has nothing else.

If this wasn't such an appallingly ignorant and boldly stupid as fuck statement, I wouldn't have dignified it with a response. Janet has done anything BUT brought up Nipplegate since it happened. The last time she addressed it on camera was during a 2006 interview on Oprah. It is brought up on a yearly basis during Super Bowl season and when she trends on Twitter during #JusticeforJanet on SB Sunday, but she has absolutely never brought it up since it happened. But you already knew this. And you TRIED it, but failed. Miserably.

Sure, Jabs.

So emotional, R323.

No, R325, that was by Whitney, and it was a hit. You know, a song everyone remembers, unlike Janet's songs.

Of course, Janet is going to use the nipple scandal to sell her doc. The only reason people will tune in is to see what she says about Timberlake.

Outside of that, nobody cares about her music. Why doesn't "Janet Appreciation Day" result in more sales and streams? Why don't the people who hashtag "JusticeforJanet" pay to go see her in concert?

If there was true "justice for Janet", then people would be streaming her music like crazy and going to see her in concert instead of Janet playing to roped-off sections or cancelling entirely.

Roped off sections? LOL. Isn't that part of why the HAG's Madame X-Lax Auditorium Tour flopped so badly? That, and nobody wanted to see her lip synch to those awful new songs live?

Speaking of Whitney, here she is singing Janet's CONTROL in concert...

[quote]Why don't the people who hashtag "JusticeforJanet" pay to go see her in concert?

They do, bitch. But you already knew that.

Fuck that bitch who laughed at Janet because The New York Times said her breast looked the average middle-aged woman's breast and wasn't very sexy anyway. That part really rubbed me the wrong way. She already felt humiliated enough and you're going to sit there and mock her body? A part of her we were never supposed to see and talk about how it didn't do her any favors in regards to her image as a sex symbol? It is kicking people when they're down and I cannot support that.

There aren't enough eyeballs in the world to roll at the comment at R331

[quote]The New York Times said her breast looked the average middle-aged woman's breast

How could that be when they're IMPLANTS?

I just watched it. It didn't offer much of anything interesting other than a lot of eye rolling woke commentary. My favorite was the black female commentator who said the speculation that Janet's nipple shield proved it was planned showed the way that white society can't conceive of a black woman wanting to "adorn her body" to be attractive for herself. Uh, I think we can all conceive of that. What we can't conceive of is wearing a giant nipple ring under a tight pleather bustier. And then on top of that, it just happening to have been worn on the same day when her breast was exposed. I also loved when she claimed the media always wants "take down" black female artists. Should we start passing around the collection plate for Beyonce now, then?

R334, that's exactly why the documentary is not convincing at all. That black commentator had a septup piercing which is a sign we shouldn't be taking her too seriously. She seemed completely enraged that Justin actually apologized to the network and wasn't punished the way Janet was. Hell, she said so herself. She was so mad that he got bigger and bigger while Janet became forgotten. Justinw ould have been big with or without nipplegate so it's not like he got huge BECAUSE of it.

Agreed R335. People also seem to blame Justin personally for not suffering as much as Janet, but it's society that should be blamed, not him. Plus, the documentary highlights how many apologies Justin made both publicly and behind the scenes. Janet, on the other hand, went into hiding, released a half assed sounding statement a few days later, refused to apologize to CBS in person, and then refused to address the issue in later interviews. What did she expect would happen then? Also, the idea that Justin didn't stand up sufficiently for Janet defies reason. What human being, let alone a *23 year old*, would have publicly thrown themselves deeper into that controversy? I didn't hear the costumer coming out and begging to get raked over the coals either. Worse, the Janet army also wants to cast Janet as a strong black woman who was a victim of a racist and sexist society, but then they're demanding that a 23 year old white boy be her savior? Give me a fucking break .

neither one out n out denied it was not a planned thing.

nuff said.

It was all so ridiculous.

oop, i meant neither one was said it was not a planned thing... definitely

[quote]She was so mad that he got bigger and bigger while Janet became forgotten

Forgotten? Honey, Janet Jackson created the blueprint that just about every one of the pop and R&B artists who occupy the top of the charts these days follows in some way, shape or form. She is an established legend. Her seminal Rhythm Nation 1814 album just went into the Library of Congress. They're doing Dancing With The Stars theme nights on her catalogue and trending her name on Twitter every Super Bowl Sunday.

And you were saying?

Justin Timberlake can kick rocks. He came for Janet AND Prince back when he thought his shit didn't stink, and has been humbled by the tanking of his Man of the Woods album and the Super Bowl performance that was meant to promote it. No one is checking for him anymore, he was made to publicly apologize to Britney AND Janet earlier this year, and he's reminded every Super Bowl Sunday of the fact that he's persona non grata in a lot of people's eyes.

"She is an established legend"

LORD

[quote] Janet Jackson created the blueprint that just about every one of the pop and R&B artists who occupy the top of the charts these day

Jabba is off its meds again.

Janet is a damn good singer. Les Moonves is the reason kids today aren't as familiar with her music as they should be. He effectively buried her and her career never recovered. But he got his karma when he was exposed as a filthy pervert and fire from his job. You can't go around hurting people your whole life because eventually it's going to come back and bite you, and he learned that the hard way. He wanted Janet Jackson to bow down and kiss his feet and was pissed off when he realize that wasn't going to happen. How dare a woman stand up to him and a Black woman at that. But why should she apologize for an accident? Apologies are for things you do wrong and she did nothing wrong.

[quote] Apologies are for things you do wrong and she did nothing wrong.

And sometimes they'e things you say anyway to save your career. She chose not to.

Les probably wanted her to come to his office so that he could proposition her. She said F YOU, I already apologized through written and taped statements. Good for her.

Record-setting sweeping wins at various awards shows over the years

Millions of albums sold

RNR HOF Inductee

An album in the Library of Congress

The only artist in history with 7 top 5 Hot 100 hits from a single album

Several world tours

Has acted in film and TV since 1977

First 3 films debuted atop the US movie box office

A litany of influential music videos under her belt that still inspire pop and R&B acts today

Multiple influential albums, several which have made various All Time Greatest lists

10 Hot 100 #1s

Multiple music industry records set, some of which remain unbroken today

One of only three artists with a #1 album in the '80s, the '90s, the 2000s and the 2010s

first female to debut a single in the Hot 100 top 10

...and so on, and so on.

I liked the documentary but don't buy the premise the right went after her because she was a black woman owning her sexuality or something. They went after her because it was convenient and suited their purposes at the time.

Yes. Janet was a sacrifice. Not because she was black though. The music industry is greedy and doesn't give a shit about the artists no matter the race. Janet wasn't making the same money as she was in the 80s and 90s. She was getting older and she wanted to make more adult R&B music rather than pop. The industry wanted to push the young girls like Ciara, Beyonce, Cassie and Ashanti who were all arguably Janet imitations but were younger and sexy thus make money.

Justin was only spared because his career was very popular. He was making money off his debut and was a hot commodity. You noticed as soon as Timberlake aged, got married and then younger guys like Bieber came around. The industry basically gave up on Timberlake. Man of the Woods flopping did his career in .

Also I really think Madonna would have killed her career if she did this stunt. She was already in hot water with the conservatives for American Life and What It Feels Like For a Girl. Both banned on MTV. Plus like Janet, Madonna was losing her relevance and getting phased out for Britney, Pink, Christina and Gwen. Madonna could not have survived this stunt either.

Madonna is roadkill at this point in time. Like the carcass of a dead skunk, getting run over again and again…

Les did Janet no favours but he didn't end her career. The puritanical society who went along with him did her in, too. Let's not pretend that people were like "OMG poor Janet" back in 2004. They were amused by the scandal but they didn't care enough to fight for Janet or make Damita Jo a hit album or call their radio stations to say "please stop banning Janet".

People didn't want to be associated with Janet in 2004.

R353 The industry reaction seemed completely monetary based. We can even see today how many actors and singers' careers "disappear" when a scandal hits. The industry is short-term profit oriented, they are always looking to replace the old with the new. The public reaction was morality based. If Janet did this in the 90s when she was still a big star, the industry would have still backed her up just like they did with Madonna's Sex book nonsense.

Janet wasn't exactly on the skids in 2004. Her previous album gave her her biggest first week sales ever and she'd had another massive world tour. People were anxiously awaiting her next album, which is why it was a no-brainer to get her to headline the SB Halftime Show.

[quote] Record-setting sweeping wins at various awards shows over the years

This never happened.

[quote] Millions of albums sold

Big deal, thousands of artists have sold millions of albums. Janet ranks so far down on the list of top selling artists that it's embarrassing.

[quote] RNR HOF Inductee

After so many tries and fails she was basically grandfathered in.

[quote] An album in the Library of Congress

Sweetie, Holly Near has an album in the Library of Congress

[quote] The only artist in history with 7 top 5 Hot 100 hits from a single album

And yet no one remembers what they are

[quote] Several world tours

Most of which flopped and had to be cut short or canceled because of rotten sales.

[quote] Has acted in film and TV since 1977

And?

[quote] First 3 films debuted atop the US movie box office

None of which did so because of her.

[quote] A litany of influential music videos under her belt that still inspire pop and R&B acts today

Pop and R&B acts today- "What's a music video?"

[quote] Multiple influential albums, several which have made various All Time Greatest lists

You must be thinking of someone else.

[quote] 10 Hot 100 #1s

Is that all?

[quote] Multiple music industry records set, some of which remain unbroken today

You got me there. No one will ever break her record of artist to lose more money at a state fair and bankrupt it.

[quote] One of only three artists with a #1 album in the '80s, the '90s, the 2000s and the 2010s

You mean the album that debuted at #1 and then fell off the chart three weeks later and didn't even go Tin?

[quote] first female to debut a single in the Hot 100 top 10

Because her brother sang on it?

As usual, Jabba, you're full of bullshit, you fat gorilla.

"Anxiously awaiting her new album"

LMAO!!!!!

Her single at the time was flopping. Nobody was anxiously awaiting anything from Janet or her whispercoo.

Which is why she needed to drag out her titty because nobody was interested in her new album. She needed to create a stir.

Damita Ho.

Janet was pretty much over in the mainstream by 2004. The late 90s was her last era of relevance, and even then she wasn't as big as other artists at that time such as Madonna, Celine Dion and Whitney Houston. Even Cher was bigger in the late 90s.

I don't think NFL half-time shows are a sign of being a young hot star still charting the the Top 40. The average age for the Super Bowl viewership is older and the NFL tend to get acts that are considered classic and nostalgic to appeal to the older demographic.

JanBot is in a frenzy because this documentary has not made the slightest dent. The Britney doc sparked a ton of commentary and interest, but this doc has come and gone with barely a blip of interest. There's some talk of Justin getting his just desserts, but that's really a culmination of his treatment of Britney, the aftermath of the Superbowl, and his overall douchery. Janet just doesn't generate that much attention.

I loved this thread about the Jacksons and how Janet had to shake them off her leg…

Janet isn't close to her family at all. She and Michael weren't even close and I think she actually angered him because she was not vocally defending him enough. I've also noticed Janet was rebellious in that she embraced an unapologetically Black attitude and an Afrocentric aesthetic to her music. She helped fund Spike Lee's Malcolm X, did a John Singleton movie Poetic Justice with 2Pac and later would would work with Tyler Perry. Compared to the other Jacksons who seemed self-hating and wanting to distance from their Blackness. Janet admitted in an interview, Joe was cold and mean to her and wouldn't even let her call him "daddy". She disowned her first two albums because that was Joe's vision and she had little say in things. She even eloped to James DeBarge in hopes of getting away from her family. It's rumored they had a daughter that she gave up for adoption. Anyway, her ambitions were to not by like her siblings which is why she stood out.

If Janet wanted away from her family, why the multiple nose jobs and boob enhancement?

[quote]This never happened.

Oh, but it did...

[quote]Big deal, thousands of artists have sold millions of albums

Yes, but none of them have set the industry records that Janet's have set (7 top 5 Hot 100 hits, the first female to debut at #1 during the SoundScan era, etc). But you tried it. And FAILED, yet again.

[quote]After so many tries and fails she was basically grandfathered in.

No bitch, but you keep wishing that. She's IN. And your faves aren't and never will be.

[quote]Sweetie, Holly Near has an album in the Library of Congress

Oh, I guess this means that I'm supposed to be in awe that you Googled some obscure person to go alongside Janet's entry? Well guess what else? Michael Jackson, Prince, Bruce Springsteen, Janet and many other legendary artists have albums in the LOC. Where's Madonna's LOC album at? Oh, that's right...she doesn't have one. LOL.

[quote]And yet no one remembers what they are

I guess that's why the singles have been remade, sampled, covered and analyzed over the years. Yeah, I think it's safe to say that only you and the 50 other people who live in your podunk hick trash town are the only ones who don't remember Rhythm Nation, Escapade, Black Cat, etc.

[quote]Most of which flopped and had to be cut short or canceled because of rotten sales.

Sorry gurl, wrong again! The RN 1814, janet., Velvet Rope and All For You tours all broke box office records, the Up Close and Personal Tour had to be extended for months out because of demand, the Unbreakable Tour (later revamped as the State of the World Tour) played to packed audiences and went on for several years, and her Vegas stint was also a success. But you tried it.

[quote]And?

And?? She's been a pop culture icon via TV since that Good Times hot iron episode. You know, back in 1977, when your faves were either still swimming around in their daddies' nutsacks or turning tricks in Lower Manhattan for a hot meal and the chance at a record deal.

[quote]None of which did so because of her.

Um...no. Poetic Justice was released at the height of her commercial peak, so you can be sure that it hit #1 because of her. Her fans also went out to see Nutty Professor II and Why Did I Get Married? in droves, which also helped those movies debut at #1. But you already knew that. Bitch.

[quote]Pop and R&B acts today- "What's a music video?"

Oh, they definitely know, hence the reason the latest one always tries to one-up the previous one (see Cardi B., Megan Thee Stallion, Beyonce, etc.)

[quote]You must be thinking of someone else.

NAH. Rhythm Nation and The Velvet Rope alone are on Rolling Stone's 500 Greatest Albums of All Time list. RN is also on the list of 1001 Albums You Must Hear Before You Die. But you digress.

[quote]Is that all?

Yep. And that's more than most artists in the history of music. All obtained back when people had to physically go out and buy the single. But, being poor and obese, I'm sure that you're not too familiar with going anywhere or buying anything, so...

[quote]You got me there.

I got you everywhere. Which is why I'm almost starting to feel some second hand embarrassment for you. Almost.

[quote]You mean the album that debuted at #1 and then fell off the chart three weeks later and didn't even go Tin?

I mean the album that garnered Janet her best reviews since 1997's The Velvet Rope and that sold more in the US with little to no promo than HAGdonna's highly-promoted album that was released at the same time. What was it, again? Rebel Fart? LOL. And speaking of tin, I would wager a bet that it's one step above wood, which is probably the status that Madame X-Lax tapped out at.

[quote]Because her brother sang on it?

No, darlin'. I mean "Runaway." It was the first single by a female to debut in the top 10 of the Hot 100, which was quite a feat seeing as though the Hot 100 had been around for decades by then. So, once AGAIN, you've managed to humiliate yourself with your absolute lack of knowledge of...well...anything. But keep trying. There's nothing I like better than a person who tries.

Jabot wins that round against Vadgistan!

This thread has made me more appreciative of Janet Jackson. She had to break free from her crazy ass family in order to be a successful.

Oh look, Jabba is switching browsers.

And the story changes yet again. Now her stylist says the boob was supposed to come out but someone in the control room took too long to fade to black screen.

Janet is as big a shady liar as any other Jackson.

There are so many lies in Jabba's tired bullshit defense of Janet, it's hard to pick just one to single out, but I'll just close my eyes and point.

Jabba, if Janet broke so many records on all those tours, then how come her name shows up nowhere on any list of most successful grossing tour? You could go all the way down the list and never find her name.

Yeah, so tell me why anything you have to say should be listened to?

Oh, right, it shouldn't.

Once a liar... always a fat gorilla.

I really can't remember anyone I knew back in the early 2000s being into Janet Jackson. I don't remember her really being mentioned at all. These were people in their 20s in NYC. Madonna and Mariah were still pretty big at the time, though. Whitney had turned into a joke, unfortunately.

R371, Mariah was not big in the early 00s., between 2001 and 2005 her career was dead. But then Emancipation of Mimi came out and changed all that. But Janet was done after All For You in 2001, her last hit album ever.

Mariah and Madonna were both old news. They had one last big hurrah with Emancipation and Confessions, respectively.

The downfall of civilization can be traced to seeing Janet's average boob for .8 seconds.

r373 this was the early 2000s, Madonna and Mariah were still pretty popular.

R375 With their audience of fans they've had since the 80s or early 90s and mainstream radio still supported. But to teens and young adults, they weren't popular like Britney, Beyonce, Christina, Ashanti, J. Lo, or Pink. That's why Madonna, Janet and Mariah got less radio support around the same time, they still have their fanbases but the music industry stopped caring about them.

Young adults in the early 2000s were people who grew up with Madonna and Mariah in the 80s and 90s you fucking moron.

R377 Madonna was over 40 and her music started sucking after Ray of Light. She lost her coolness factor and sex appeal. Madonna kissing Britney basically was seen as this creepy old lady preying on this cute young girl. Not hot all.

Onto Mariah. She became oversexualized and focused on R&B which alienated a lot of her original (white) audience that preferred her ballads and modest style.

They were also Gen X icons. Teens and young adults in the early 2000s were were Xennials and Millennials. Mariah maintained popularity in the Black community as did Janet though.

They were still popular in the mainstream in the early 90s though. It wasn't until later in the decade that their careers really diminished. They were still getting hits until then.

Britney and Christina, interestingly, were also pretty much over by the late 2000s. They had no career longevity like their predecessors.

[quote] Teens and young adults in the early 2000s were were Xennials and Millennials.

Xers who were born in mid-late 70s were in their early-mid 20s in the early 2000s

Everybody forgets about the second half of Gen X lol!

There is no such thing as Xennials. They're very much Gen X.

R380 Madonna stopped being popular with young people after Like A Prayer. She got massively overshadowed by other female artists in the 90s, Mariah and Whitney included. Madonna was seen as washed-up and desperate by the early 2000s I would say out of Janet and Madonna, Mariah was still popular until Emancipation. Janet and Madonna just got hits but not big with the youth like in the 80s and 90s. Mariah was younger and thus had more sex appeal to last until the late 2000s.

No way Madonna stopped being popular with youth after Like A Prayer. You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. It wasn't until the late 2000s that Madonna really declined. She had an amazingly long run.

R383 - Mooriah was over way before Madge. Madge had some success up until COAD in 2005 - no one was listening to Mooriah at that point. That’s when you started getting people like Lady Gaga and Britney dominating the charts.

Lady Gaga didn't hit the scene until nearly a decade after Britney.

Britney was already over as a charting artist by the time Lady Gaga debuted.

Bedtime Stories, Erotca and Ray of Light were not for young people. They were good albums but obviously for an older audience. Madge was over 30 in the 90s, she wasn't marketed to teens. Get over that delusion. She even criticized Britney, Backstreet and NSYNC as manufactured crap. She later proved to be a hypocrite as she still collaborated with Britney and Timberlake to maintain relelvance.

The Second Half of Gen X were not Madonna's main audience. They were the audience for Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Fiona Apple, kd lang, Alanis Morrisette, 2Pac, TLC, Aaliyah, Mariah, Nirvana etc. Madonna is associated with the 80s. By the time of the early 2000s she was seen as vintage and over-the-hill. Janet and Mariah less so because they were younger and still attractive.

What’s that now, R386/387?

Lady G debut album - 2008

Britney Blackout - 2007

Britney Circus - 2008

Those two Britney albums were two of her biggest.

[quote]The Second Half of Gen X were not Madonna's main audience. They were the audience for Pearl Jam, Soundgarden, Fiona Apple, kd lang, Alanis Morrisette, 2Pac, TLC, Aaliyah, Mariah, Nirvana etc. Madonna is associated with the 80s.

I have no idea how old you are, but as a member of the second half of Gen X Madonna was HUGE with my age group. We grew up with her and yes in the 90s we also listened to all of the artists you mentioned. You have absolutely NO idea what you are talking about.

[quote]Bedtime Stories, Erotca and Ray of Light were not for young people. They were good albums but obviously for an older audience. Madge was over 30 in the 90s, she wasn't marketed to teens. Get over that delusion.

Younger Gen Xers were a big part of the audience for these albums. I was in college when Ray of Light came out and that was a big album. I was in high school when Erotica and Bedtime Stories came out and those albums were also popular with my age group. You have to remember that teens back then didn't just listen to music that was marketed to teens. Hell, Billy Joel was still big with teens in my age group back then.

R363, she physically escaped from the family. But the scars her parents left on her psyche, she’ll carry them always. Just like the rest of us.

Jesus Christ, Madonna was still very popular in 2000 and 2001. She was still coming off the success of Ray of Light. Music was one of her biggest hits, and her last number one on the Billboard Hot 100. Janet also had a number one song in 2000 (Doesn't Really Matter).

It does seem that a lot of the female singers who were popular in the '90s and in particular the late '90s, struggled as the 2000s went on.

[quote]Janet also had a number one song in 2000 (Doesn't Really Matter).

Yep, and All For You was the longest-running Hot 100 #1 of 2001.

I barely remember All For You. I don't remember hearing it in bars and clubs at the time.

All For You was popular with people when I was in middle school so Janet was still popular with the youth. Nowhere near as popular as Britney or Christina obviously, but still somewhat popular. I'd say more than Madonna because Madonna was already in her early 40s. But Madonna probably did much better with adults.

[quote]I barely remember All For You.

You're lying. It was everywhere that year. It broke records at radio for being added to every pop, rhythmic and urban radio station that reports to the national trade magazine Radio & Records, a record that lasted a decade before Lady Gaga's Born This Way broke it, although BTW was able to achieve the feat with a radio airplay deal to play the song hourly.

The Thunderpuss Mix was all over the clubs back then.

Honestly, I can't really Remember All For You very well. I was in my mid-20s at the time. I didn't know people who were really into Janet Jackson, you never really heard her music in the gay bars and clubs in NYC that I can remember. Madonna was still everywhere at that time and Beyonce/Destiny's Child were also very big in the gay places.

Did Michael defend Janet at all?

Janet was played all through the gay clubs back then.

Michael on the SB incident.

r401 I don't remember Janet Jackson being hugely popular in gay clubs or bars back then. Interestingly, one song I remember from 2001 that got TONS of play in gay bars was Jay Z's Girls Girls Girls. Go figure.

[quote][R401] I don't remember Janet Jackson being hugely popular in gay clubs or bars back then

Drugs or booze?

[quote] Did Michael defend Janet at all?

I read that as "did Michael date Janet at all?". And I was going to say yes.

r404 drag queens also do Shirley Bassey and Helen Reddy. I don't think they were terribly popular 20 years ago either.

[quote][R404] drag queens also do Shirley Bassey and Helen Reddy. I don't think they were terribly popular 20 years ago either.

Ok, drugs. I get it now.

No one remembers All For You because it pretty much disappeared from consciousness as soon as it fell off the chart.

[quote]No one remembers All For You because it pretty much disappeared from consciousness as soon as it fell off the chart.

Sure Jan (pun intended).

Pretty much r408. And r407 I was there and I can tell you nobody was really checking for Janet Jackson in the early 2000s. I don't remember any big JJ fans in the gay world back then, or straight women. Straight men have never given a fuck.

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Nice try R410. Being a troll is not your strong suit. Janet, not big in the gay world? Surely you jest.

Jabba jumps like the performing monkey it is.

^Faggo say what??

Janet is surely a thing with gay black men of a certain age, but she's not a huge gay icon in the mainstream gay world.

even gay black men aren't looking for her anymore

[quote]she's not a huge gay icon in the mainstream gay world.

Spoken like an eldergay white man who's had his head up his ass (or someone else's) for WAY too long.

Gay white man who LOVES her!

A true gay icon is someone who instantly provokes the thought "gay guys love her" when her name is mentioned. Donna Summer, Madonna, Bette Midler and Cher are a few examples. They are completely intertwined with gay culture and identity. Janet Jackson is not. She is not anywhere near the pantheon of true gay icons.

R423 Then why is Britney, who was modeled after Janet, considered a gay icon?

Britney is more or less a gay icon to gay Millennials only but there's no accounting for taste in that instance.

[quote][R423] Then why is Britney, who was modeled after Janet, considered a gay icon?

It's a white thing. Britney was (and will always be) a carbon copy of Janet but critics hailed her as the next Madonna. It was bullshit then and it's bullshit now.

[quote]She is not anywhere near the pantheon of true gay icons.

So we're talking pantheons now? Stop moving the goalpost. Janet Jackson is a gay icon. Her music is played in gay clubs, drag queens all over perform as her, and her Velvet Rope album has been cited by many LGBT fans and artists as life-saving and influential (Janet Mock even named herself after Janet because of it).

Janet never called gay men fags onscreen either.

Love this interview. She talks about the rumors that went around about her being gay.

R365, I am not sure if you even realize it, but that was totally embarrassing post. It had the opposite effect to whatever you were hoping. Desperate and trying way to damn hard, honey. Try caring less, it's more effective.

Something about this makes me smile...

[quote]I am not sure if you even realize it, but that was totally embarrassing post...

Aww...you mad? Ha! Stay pressed, sugar.

[quote]way to damn hard, honey

TO and TOO are TWO different words. Learn how to spell before you try to come for somebody.

[quote]So we're talking pantheons now? Stop moving the goalpost. Janet Jackson is a gay icon. Her music is played in gay clubs, drag queens all over perform as her, and her Velvet Rope album has been cited by many LGBT fans and artists as life-saving and influential (Janet Mock even named herself after Janet because of it).

Sorry but no.

Judy Garland

Bette Midler

Diana Ross

Cher

Madonna

Janet Jackson?? No. She's not on that level. There was nothing inherently gay about her persona or her whole act. She had absolutely no gay sensibility or camp factor. I don't think you really understand the criteria for what makes a gay icon.

Who the fuck is Janet Mock?

Janet Mock is the tranny who uses her position/power as showrunner to fuck her cast members.

In addition to being a creepy male sexual harasser, he's also fucking nuts.

[quote]Sorry but no.

Sorry, but yes. You don't get to dictate these things.

[quote]Who the fuck is Janet Mock? 99% of America.

99% of America might not know who she is, but many in the LGBTQ community do. Last time I checked, the LGBTQ community wasn't 99% of America.

Many in the LGBTQ community don't know the bitch.

Sorry but no r436. See the above posts. You don't understand what makes someone a gay icon.

[quote]Many in the LGBTQ community don't know the bitch.

She's not exactly an unknown in the community, dear.

No one gives a fuck about trannys, Jabba, you fat monkey. But you also think people give a shit about Janet Jackson even though we've proven you wrong time and again.

[quote]But you also think people give a shit about Janet Jackson even though we've proven you wrong time and again.

The only thing that you and your limp-wristed self has proven is that you don't handle being publicly humiliated too well (see R365). But, do keep coming back to Janet's thread and bumping it. I know I most CERTAINLY will.

[quote]No one gives a fuck about trannys

Trannys? I think it's spelled "trannies." Your Section-8 housing upbringing is showing again.

Janet Jackson may not be a gay icon, but Sondra Prill, who covered Janet's Nasty, is a gay icon... to me.

^LOL, I love that video!

Rudy Houston, the hot dude who was in Janet's What Have You Done For Me Lately and Escapade videos, is transgender and now goes by Lana.

Notorious homophobe Jabba is trying to tell gay men who a gay icon is.

[quote]Notorious homophobe

Sondra Prill is a GODDESS.

Stay pressed, Hunties!

Stevie Nicks is a gay icon!

Stay fat, Jabba.

Steve and Janet are both gay icons!

JFC they look like a couple of waxworks.

Stevie's never had any plastic surgery.

Hahahaha r545!

Stevie looks fine. Janet has seen better days, but so has Madonna too.

Stevie looks freakish in that photo.

Janet looks like an Asian woman now.

omg she so washed up.....has had way too much surgery on that sad face.....she not like herself.

[quote]It spends a lot of time talking about the cultural shift going on in the 80s and 90s with conservatives. IT makes the case that conservatives absolutely wanted this black woman to fail and be humiliated. It almost seems to paint Janet as THE vicitm of the culture wars.

I just watched the entire documentary and I disagree. While some of the journalists in the documentary held this opinion, it also included others from the organizations who warned against indecency in TV, and several of the people who worked on the production who were left to deal with the fallout. Janet waited way too long to address what happened, was not forthcoming enough; that is what led to permanent damage to her career and others.

I was also reminded how young Justin Timberlake was during this time, his owes his career to those publicists who advised him to kiss ass and do whatever he had to do to get out of it. Looking back it is almost inconceivable how popular he was back then. I can't believe they made such a big deal about JT being the surprise guest at Janet Jackson's super bowl half-time show lol, my times have changed. He was so heavily influenced by black culture it would be called out as cultural appropriation today.

R424, nobody considers Britney a gay icon except gay Britney fans. Even people who hate Donna Summer, Madonna, Bette Midler and Cher can see why the are revered by gays.

r461 all those other divas you named are old enough to be Brintey's mom. She's not a gay icon to the olds

She's not a gay icon to anyone aside from delusional gay Britney fans. And the fact that they are old has nothing to do with my point.

[quote] He was so heavily influenced by black culture it would be called out as cultural appropriation today.

Many black people--at least on social media--do hate him for that reason. They feel that he benefitted way too much from his "proximity to blackness".

[quote]Looking back it is almost inconceivable how popular he was back then.

At the time it was inconceivable how popular he was. I just didn't understand why this marginally talented former boy band member was the Next Big Thing.

r465 He presented hole in all the right places.