Alec Baldwin kills, part 2

Previous thread

The Worshipful Company of Armorers

Has Hillary posted a photo of herself in a black bra crying with her menagerie of kids yet?

I make Alec he favorite Espanith dith tonight- empanadath con chocolate cake icing.

Thanks OP for the new thread.

Black bra and one of those Espanola widow veil headdress.

Union says there were no members on site the day of the accident, so whoever was taking their place that day were scabs?

I bet Hilaria was working props.

[quote]Umm, maybe you missed the part where it says he's playing a role in the movie in addition to being the director. Presumably, the character is supposed to look like that. Can you not read AT ALL?

Umm, Baldwin is not the director.

This looks terrible for Baldwin

[quote]I will wait for the official report.

And the rest of us will become TOTAL DRAMA QUEEENS!!!!!!

Baldwin is a PRODUCER on the film, also an actor.

There were KNOWN safety issues on the set re: guns, union members walked off the day before.

As a producer he did not address the safety concerns, merely killed a woman.

What an amateur shitshow things become when they move filming outside of LA.

I find it interesting that both the Daily Mail and AB posted a quote or a remark about her husband at exactly the same tie. It seems like AB is trying to get ahead of the lawsuits.

Her husband should sue his ass. I would.

That's it, no more movie. Bet it ain't gonna be finished.

Sounds like a shit show.

gross negligence.

[quote]Her husband should sue his ass. I would.

Of course, he's going to be sued.

So the union workers walked over $ AND safety. Bet it will be spun differently.

Baldwin was trying to run it as cheap as possible. And it cost a little boy his mom.

Fucking scabs. I work in a unionized environment and every time scabs come on the scene there's problems.

If the tweet in R10 is for real, Alec, as producer, is probably ruined now, financially.

Who's going to pay for that ridiculous litter of kids?

How many kids does he have now? 12?

Gee, I wonder if his wife had him set up trusts funds or education funds for the kids.

It's not his fault, the blame goes to the fucking scab who handed the gun without following proper protocol. This is why you don't cheap out and why you hire union pros.

You just know that deep down in his heart he's glad he killed someone

I doubt he will be ruined financially...there are ways to hide assets. I'm sure he's transferring his assets right now...

R23, he is the producer, so it is his fault.

I can’t believe I’m saying this but I actually feel sorry for the asshole. It wasn’t his fault but he’ll carry the guilt around forever.

He's the producer and he could have addressed the union workers concerns but he didn't. Hope the lawsuits bankrupt him.

It's still the person in charge of the props fault, R26. He could be blamed for not ensuring union workers were on scene, but not for the incompetence of the scab.

Film productions are insured, so all damages are covered.

He's a narcissist. He's not gonna feel sorry for nobody...yes, of course he will "act" like it but he ain't gonna lose sleep over it over the long run.

The film looks like it would've been straight to VOD garbage. What a waste.

There are people who actually believe that a union member sabotaged the gun before they walked off set — because they cared about safety on the set?!

I don’t believe that.

Mr. Baldwin, as part of your cost-cutting measure that resulted in union workers leaving the set to scabs, we also terminated insurance coverage.

Sincerely,

Of course not, R33. That's insane. Some idiotic non union member didn't know what the fuck they were doing is what happened.

Concerned about safety? No. Revenge!

Okay hear me out?

If I were LE I'd be looking into IATSE sabotage. To prove a point about how unsafe set conditions are. To show how incompetent and lethal scabs are. To show those other cast and crew who aren't supporting use enough how they NEED US. And only US.

The fact that the statement even mentions that no union members were on set that day is a red flag. People always give themselves away. Even if there was no union connection, they can't hide their satisfaction.

So, LE, as much of a union lover as I am, Look for the Union label . . .

Join me later for my conspiracy theory on the Golden Globes vs the goofy Broadcast Critics. Tonight at 11.

I guess I should have read backwards to see that I am not alone in my delicious little theory. LOL! Oh well great minds and all that.

No one should pooh-pooh this idea. It is entirely possible. LE would be stupid not to look into that line of inquiry.

Was Baldwin a real producer, the sole producer, or someone who just demanded producer credit because "the film won't get made without me"?

It makes a difference in how liable he is.

Jesus Christ, the vengeful Trumpers have even taken over the IATSE! Poor Alec. He didn't have a chance.

Is *everybody* Russian or Russian-annexed these days?

R33, there are people who want to destroy this country . . . wait for it . . . to save this country.

Why do we expect logic today? It is very easy to promote drastic measures to get what you want? People are increasingly stupid and ILLOGICAL.

these are the Producers according to IMDB--

Produced by

Alec Baldwin ... producer

Kc Brandenstein ... co-producer

Allen Cheney ... executive producer

Matt DelPiano ... producer

Tyler Gould ... executive producer

Matthew Helderman ... executive producer

Nathan Klingher ... producer

Anjul Nigam ... producer

Emily Hunter Salveson ... executive producer

Ryan Donnell Smith ... producer

Luke Taylor ... executive producer

Ryan Winterstern ... producer

"Left wing hero" murders woman on scab production. Stop worshipping these fucking hypocrites!

Of course when I read a post like the one at R37, the conspiracy-theory-generating part of *my* mind says:

Oh, the Hollywood Powers That Be are going to try to use this incident to break the crew unions! The ones that are on the verge of striking because they want safe and humane working conditions? The PWB don't want to pay for safe and humane working conditions, this is clear.

No way, R37. I said before that I'm union. My job isn't dangerous, but some of my colleague's jobs are.

When they've been on strike (railway workers) you wouldn't believe the shit the scabs did - they followed no safety protocols, barely understood the basic rules, caused major accidents including derailments of dangerous commodities while switching in rail yards, had head on collisions with other railway movements and so on. It's a miracle no one's been killed.

No union member would deliberately set up a dangerous workplace condition, and as much as we all hate scabs, their safety is also in jeopardy in dangerous workplace environments. These people are professionals and are very concerned about workplace health and safety.

[quote]I'm not admitting anything about the accident it was an accident a terrible accident, but sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry sorry.

So comprehensive.

How credible are the claims that staff had walked off the set in protest?

r45, that makes no sense. If anything, this bolsters the case for the importance for union crews.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

r48, that's what happened.

R37, even if you assume the IATSE prop master is a cold-blooded killer who loaded live ammunition into the gun before walking off the set...

It is the job of the prop master to check the gun thoroughly before it's put into the actor's hands, not to assume that whoever touched it last probably left it unloaded. So whoever was the prop master on the set the day of the accident didn't do their job. If they had, they would have found live ammo in the gun and removed it.

Dickhead Cheney

Still no explanation why the gun was fired directly at the torso of the cinematographer.

[quote]How does a "prop" gun discharge any kind of projectile? Is it a real gun or not?

Prop does not equal fake.

Prop is short for Property, an object owned, used, eaten, handled, etc. by a character.

A prop can be a toy water pistol or a very real rifle or gun.

Too bad he didn't shoot R44 instead.

Just keep showing your true colors r56

[quote]Dickhead Cheney

Cheney would have shot her in the back.

r58, Cheney only shoots people in the face. Are you 12 years old?

[quote] He's a narcissist. He's not gonna feel sorry for nobody.

What a load of BS.

This magazine cover should have been the end, but of course he could never go away. Too much of a narcissist freak, much like DJT.

Of course I don't believe Baldwin knew the gun with loaded with live ammo. Has it been explained exactly what they were doing at the time? Were they actually filming a scene where he was shooting the gun and the 2 victims were somehow in the line of fire off-camera, or was Baldwin just clowning around with a gun he thought was unloaded? I have some sympathy for him if they were filming. He's been acting for a long time and people tend to it for granted that safety checks are in place. If he was fooling around I have NO sympathy for him.

Those celebrities on Twitter ought to zip it for now.

I have no doubt ... it won't be long before he plasters his craggy old face all over another magazine, like the one at R61. Some b.s. "healing" story

Accident my ass. How long till Alec offs himself over killing this poor lady.

Narcissists don't off themselves over killing people accidentally! Or deliberately. They don't concern themselves with other people's lives, although sometimes they listen enough to their publicists to make a show of caring.

I mean...how the fuck did he also shoot another person? UNLESS he was being...Alec Baldwin...and aiming at them both in a fit of rage because it was getting close to lunch and they weren't working fast enough?

I keep wondering, what if this had happened on the set of I Love Lucy?

I agree he is a raging narcissist and won’t feel bad for anyone other than himself.

Not many people have asked if I’m okay.

"Narcissists" like Alec will kill themselves if everyone hates them and blames him for killing that lady. Jesus. What fucking planet are you delusional cunts from?

this saga is better than Halloween Kills for sure.

Hmm. I don’t think a normal person would aim a gun at an AD and pretend to shoot them. Most people would be more careful even if it’s a stunt gun.

Presumably, r54, the scene being shot was meant to be from the point of view of the character being shot at, hence the gun being fired directly towards the camera, and the people immediately around it.

The tweet at r10 was removed.

I remember quitting a job because the conditions were unsafe and shortly thereafter a former colleague was hurt on the job. This is what happens when you hire poorly paid scab workers who have no skin in the game. If the union workers with proper experience had been on set this never would have happened. She should have left with her colleagues..

An additional concern: Were any horses harmed in the making of this film?

R76 What a stupid fraucunt thing to say. Fucking bitch. Of course, she should have left since she's been fucking killed!

I can't find the tweet now, but someone I follow on Twitter (who works in film production) said the company producing this movie is known to blow all their budget on getting big name older actors while forgoing things like working props or safety measures.

[quote]I keep wondering, what if this had happened on the set of I Love Lucy?

Why would Alec Baldwin have been on the set of I Love Lucy?

Remember when Alec was kicked off an airplane b/c he didn't want to turn his phone off? He went into a plane bathroom with his phone. Blamed a woman flight crew member for singling him out. Delayed takeoff, etc.

This is when I knew this guy's an asshole.

Calling his daughter a "little pig." I grew up with some hard knocks and I kind of held out for more proof that he's an asshole.

The plane incident was something I could picture and empathize with all the other passengers.

Ok, R81, but there's a lot of rude assholes out there, most of them aren't murderers.

This whole thing is kinda fishy. I wouldn't be surprised if when firing the gun, he just didn't give a shit whether hot or not.

[quote] I mean...how the fuck did he also shoot another person? UNLESS he was being...Alec Baldwin...and aiming at them both in a fit of rage because it was getting close to lunch and they weren't working fast enough?

Troll or just stupid.

If AB hadn't married that grifting Hilarious airhead and started knocking her up at his advanced age, Baldwin wouldn't have to be making all these crap movies.

Baldwin's situation is very much like DeNiro's, having to make so many terrible movie because they need to support these money grubbing golddiggers and children they shouldn't be having at their ages..

^THAT's telling em...

r30 thinks that her now-widowed attorney husband is going to be satisfied with the film insurance money payout amount?

He will rightfully go after every penny Alec has made or will make.

Alec's many children will now be like 99.99% of the population that will need to work for a living

R43's post looks like Schindler's List

R79, do you remember the name of the tweeter?

^Eoin-something. He made a big deal on his twitter page that is *actually* pronounced "Owen"....Yawwwwn.

Will they become political refugees in her home country of Espana?

Oops, was referring to the removed tweet at R10...

Has Trump issued a statement yet offering his fulsome sympathy for all involved?

Let me check Truth Social^.

R93 r94

.....

Baldwin will go to jail for this. No two ways about it.

This is the procedure for using prop guns on set:

A rubber non-shooting gun will be used during rehearsal, and the 1st AD and PAs will yell, “Rehearsal with rubber gun, NO ROUNDS”

The Armorer/Prop Guy then will show everyone that there are no rounds in the gun if they want to do a rehearsal with the live gun, and 1st AD, etc will yell, “Rehearsal with live gun, NO ROUNDS” repeatedly.

If they want to shoot with blanks, the armorer/prop guy will test it first for shooting, the 1st AD will yell, “LIVE GUN ON SET, FIRE IN THE HOLE” “FIRE IN THE HOLE!”, then hand it to the actor with the 1st AD still yelling the same thing. Everyone gets ear plugs.

Evidently they all got around that,-

Mr. Baldwin just grabbed the gun from the prop cart (which would never be on the cart in the first place- it would be with the armorer/prop guy at all times) that the scab left it on.

Or the scab really didn’t know anything about protocols or guns.

The scenario that someone upthread stated about the camera point-of-view of the shooting is pretty logical to me.

So wait, there was a real bullet in the gun? Why?

[quote] "Narcissists" like Alec will kill themselves if everyone hates them and blames him for killing that lady. Jesus. What fucking planet are you delusional cunts from?

Narcissists don’t kill themselves.

Worth noting that not only is Baldwin a producer and actor on this film, he also co-wrote the story with Joel Souza, who then turned it into a script. So Baldwin is very invested in the film...although, not enough to guarantee safety on the set, apparently, if the story of union crew leaving the set due to safety issues the day before is true.

BPDs kill themselves. Narcissists almost never do.

The whole camera crew walked except for the deceased and one other crew member. They also claimed they had not been paid in 3 weeks, had not been provided with the hotels that had been agreed to, that there were inadequate covid protocols and concerns re: gun safety.

Baldwin was cheaping out. And instead of responding to very serious gun safety concerns, they forged ahead and he killed a woman.

Why not use CGI? That may have been a cheap out too.

......

Thanks, R90

This is all extremely tragic.

But someone still needs to explain this from the first thread:

[quote] DL treasure Frances Fisher

.....

He was probably high from the morning or night before.

It is possible that using his alcoholism and addictions as PR fodder is going to come back to bite him in the ass. He was seen publicly buying booze in the Hamptons after his wife's latest round of fraud exposure.

Did it impact his decision making re: safety on the set?

Parading his wealth on his social media (his and his wife's) while cheaping out on basic safety and housing for the crew on his latest vanity project is NOT a good look. Neither are the Lolita shots of his 8 year old daughter. Vile human garbage.

And there it is

Per LA Times article

[quote] “Corners were being cut — and they brought in nonunion people so they could continue to shooting,” the knowledgeable person said. There were two misfires on the prop gun and one the previous week, the person said, adding “there was a serious lack of safety meetings on this set.”

From LA Times

[quote] “As many of us have already heard, there was an accidental weapons discharge on a production titled Rust being filmed in New Mexico,” said the North Hollywood-based local. “A live single round was accidentally fired on set by the principal actor, hitting both the Director of Photography, Local 600 member Halyna Hutchins, and Director Joel Souza. Both were rushed to the hospital,” the email said.

[quote] A source close to The Times said the union does not know what projectile was in the gun and clarified that “live” is an industry term that refers to a gun being loaded with some material such as a blank ready for filming.

This movie sounded low budget. Alec works because he needs to maintain the lifestyle and the 6 kids. I can see Hilaria laying or lying low for a while then launching some type of brand like Jessica Alba's. Dumb people may buy.

.....

Can't his lying wife, with her made up background, get him out of this mess with a few phrases spoken in broken Spanish?

I'm sure that determining that Alec's murder weapon was filled with blanks instead of real bullets will help the young child who just lost his mother sleep better tonight

R102 no doubt has every personality disorder known to man. She'd know.

Will the Websleuth cunts glom on this now?

UGH!

It's just so unfair you blame Alec for this. Bad things do happen to good people ... sometimes

They have been trying to rebrand him as a "family man" and her as something other than a loon. Now they are pushing the 2nd grade daughter in bikinis and lingerie. All those mouths to feed, all that household help, all those houses and horses, it don't come cheap.

Of course the crew was welcome to drive 100 miles a day so he could save a few bucks on THEIR hotels.

I just watched the "Unsolved Mysteries" segment on the accidental shooting of Brandon Lee

The authorities said it was impossible to charge anyone, because the gun in question went through so many different people in the chain of command - it couldn't be pinpointed who was at fault,

The same conclusion MIGHT be made in this case as well.

Will Alec Baldwin Kills have a better opening weekend than Halloween Kills? Wait and see!

He was/is a producer on the film-- not the executive producer, who is responsible for the film. I thought when producer credit was given to actors was simply another way to pay them, create buzz

.....

He will be sued. When you file a lawsuit, you sue all the producers in the production.

R78 - Your salty tongue is charming (sarcasm) but you have a point. The principal of the film (Alec) was getting paid while the crew hadn't been paid in three weeks - as a member of the impacted union- it would have been great if she felt that she could walk out with her colleagues. I doubt that she would have felt comfortable doing that. It was obviously not her fault.

Who took the place of the unionized workers when this happened? Of course scabs, but who were they and where did they come from? In my experience, scabs often come from management ranks.

Will be interesting to see if this part about switching from union to non-union workers is really true. Seems really dumb to cut corners on gun handling and safety. Oh, well.

He’s a homophobic loser. He was dear friends with Kevin Spacey for decades until the me too drama with Anthony Rapp when he went on Howard Stern and called him a bad person.

This is the same guy who passionately defends Woody Allen and Roman Polanski

“Damn, I thought it was Hilaria!” 🤡

Baldwin will be sued to Kingdom Come, so "Hillaria on Assistance" will be a DL thread eventually.

I had assumed that they didn't have a chance to hire anyone after the union employees left, and it was just the non-union employees left behind who were picking up the slack. It would be REAL interesting if they had time to interview and hire scabs to start the day after the union employees walked, but didn't have any time to respond to the union employees' complaints about lack of safety protocols on set.

[quote] Still no explanation why the gun was fired directly at the torso of the cinematographer.

Here's my question: WHY was he pointing a gun, even if he believed it was a prop gun, at another human being? It wasn't like they were shooting a scene and he shot off the gun to dispatch one of the characters in the movie. Was he having one of his temper tantrums and thought he'd get back at her by shooting off the prop gun at her? This does NOT sound like an accident. This sounds like manslaughter, at the very least.

Hilaria is 100% going to leave him if he loses all his money.

R179, Biden is just as bad as the ones you named. These DC elites are all close and all know what’s up. Biden and Hillary are evil pieces of shit just like Bush and Cheney.

If you think they’re not you are a moron who needs to turn off the TV.

Now confirmed - Alec is done.

"kills " is such an ugly word OP, I hope you change that. It was more like: "accidental discharge of hot prop, in which Baldwin had no idea was hot."

The production should have been shut down when the unionized employees walked off, especially if a health and safety complaint was made. I don't know what you call it in the US, but in Canada it's called a "Part Two," which means the employee is enacting Part 2 of the Canadian Labour Code which calls for a temporary work stoppage until the complaint is fully investigated by health and safety officers.

r138 is slow

Yikes

BYE BYE BALDWIN

BYE, BYE BIDEN

BYE BYE BUTTIGIEG

Does “scab” necessarily mean bad? Isn’t it just a prop master that isn’t paying dues to a union?

It’s like driving a car: there are crappy drivers with licenses and cautious drivers without.

Diana did it.

Wonder if he and Hillary will orchestrate one of those fake divorces to protect his assets while continuing to live together "for the children".

This is a fucking DISASTUH!

Scabs are often unqualified, R44, that's why they're not dues paying members of a union/professional organization. Sometimes they're management which doesn't mean that they're experts at the task at hand.

R146 and move to Florida so their house can’t be taken away. Maybe they can be friends with Ivanka and Jared

Did Baldwin have an affair with her, she dumped him, he killer her with a prop gun...prop guns KILL!! He is an ASSHOLE, who thinks he is God's gift to Women!!

He's not a murderer but the second I read he kept saying, "Why was I handed a hot gun." Or "Why was I given a hot gun." I thought he picked the damn thing up because it was a vintage type gun and he didn't take it seriously and ignored protocols.

Nobody's gonna correct him, not when he's got the most clout on that set as EP and principle.

Don't know why people are blaming "scabs" when it's the production company's fault for not paying professional rates.

This weekend was already exciting with the premieres of Dune, Locke & Key S2, and the Titans season finale yesterday. But this is just too much! What’s next!? Will Froy pen an open letter to his Scottish lover!? The excitement is palpable! I’m getting a Four Loko tonight, hunny.

[quote] He was/is a producer on the film-- not the executive producer, who is responsible for the film. I thought when producer credit was given to actors was simply another way to pay them, create buzz

It's the other way around. They give Executive Producer credits to actors as a form of payment, inducement, ass kissing, ego stroking. The actors use it to claim they are producers.

The Producers do the actual work of production for the film.

"Why was I handed a hot gun" is such a fucking narcissist thing to say. If a normal person did this, they'd be thinking of the family, maybe saying, "Oh my god, I shot someone," or "Oh, god, what have I done?"

Notice that his first instinct is to use the passive voice and blame someone else.

She is pretty. Baldwins a misogynist so he probably enjoyed shooting her.

[quote] He was/is a producer on the film-- not the executive producer, who is responsible for the film. I thought when producer credit was given to actors was simply another way to pay them, create buzz

Other way around. Executive producer is given to stars as a vanity title. Producer is the big honcho and the guy who wins the Academy Award for Best Picture.

Liberals, like Alec, usually support unions and workers' rights to organize.

R155, it's so typical. They shift blame. It's never their fault. I'm sure all of us have come across assholes like him.

Baldwins tweets read like he had no part in the death. It doesn’t seem personal at all.

I can't believe he expected the crew to drive 50 highway miles each way so he could save a few quid on their hotel rooms. 100 miles in the car after long days on set? Not very "GREEN" of him, is it? Not very "UNION FRIENDLY" either, is he? All just poses.

Meanwhile his kids ride horses in the Hamptons and a little boy has no mom, so Alec Baldwin could save a few bucks on his vanity production.

Not really R155. I think that's a perfectly reasonable thing to say at that shocking moment when someone thought that they were handed a prop gun and instead they were handed a gun with real bullets.

Baldwin is 100% cooperating with the investigation, and the truth will come out that he is a victim of foul play.

Alec’s peers must be horrified, especially the ones who’ve handled prop guns in movies. Really your worst fucking nightmare.

Has Clint Eastwood commented?.

It's always been about Baldwin...all his life!! Except when he was married to Whore Basinger

You know, all you armchair psychologists are a real fucking drag.

No surprise that this fat slob murdered somebody. It was only a matter of time before fatso greasefingers fucked up.

He had such a nice ass in Beetle Juice and Knots Landing though. Killer or not.

Seven years of Sopranos and no gun tragedies on set.

Because the scab fucked up, R152. Yes, the production company is to blame too for being cheap and hiring scab labour, but the scab isn't innocent either.

I don’t feel bad for the director Joel Souza for being shot after finding out he said “ Fuck You” to his crew.

Exactly R155 so typical of him and I thought of it again when reminded he blamed a flight attendant for insisting he turn off his phone. It's default with him. He's setting it up to kick the blame downstairs.

Scarlett Johansson is partly to blame for this.

R162 the scab is innocent if he was hired past his capabilities or given a job description that didn't rise to the level of professional on set firearms protocol which he may not have been familiar with and which was the production's responsibility to make sure he was qualified to do.

. If it was "just do this and that, don't worry about that part, just make sure about this other thing." that would be classic corner cutting.

Just as an actor relies on the script, the director, the camera crew, etc., an actor also relies on the prop crew.

Alec probably never thought in a million years that he would have been handed a "hot gun".

Someone fucked up by handing Alec that gun.

A loaded gun should never be on a movie set. The real question is, where did that gun come from and who brought it in?

If it were you or me, we'd be looking at an involuntary manslaughter charge.

Bottom line, a woman is dead and Baldwin pulled the trigger.

No, R173. A scab knows he or she is taking the job of a unionized person, they know they're not qualified and that they're hired only to work for less wages than the unionized pro or because there was trouble in the shop. They are as responsible for their actions as a unionized worker would be. Scabs are morally reprehensible people and are the type of people that republicans and conservative rely on since union busting is impossible without them.

How did a real bullet get loaded in that gun is the question. It wasn't a blank. It was REAL BULLET. On top of that, how was he able to get off a shot like that? Hit her directly in the gut, went THROUGH her (as real bullets will do) and came thisclose to getting the guy in the throat. It had the odds of making a hole in one while standing on your head.

R161 nails it. I bet Baldwin was staying at a luxury pad and his cheque landed in his account right on time. I am a leftist and this is why I hate champagne liberals - they are such fucking hypocrites.

Fuck Alec Baldwin.

R175, I don’t see any way this is any criminal charge if Baldwin thought he was using a prop gun. It’s a kind of unique situation to be sure, but I don’t see anyone under those circumstances being charged.

R176, sounds like the typical Trump supporter. No surprise that a Trump loving scab got the job and saw an opportunity to set Alec up. Maybe they didn't anticipate that someone would die, but there's no doubt in my mind that Alec was a victim of foul play.

I wish that scab troll at r169 would fuck off.

There were concerns on that set over safety and other issues which led to the majority of the union workers leaving. Both Baldwin and the director knew about this, but they decided to carry on with filming by hiring unqualified people to replace them.

The majority of the blame should lie with the assholes who decided to ignore all the concerns and carry on with making this shitty little Baldwin vanity project.

WHY were there live rounds in the prop gun? Was it actually a prop or something pulled out of a scabs glove compartment at the last minute?

WTF, R180? I'm anti scab, lol. Reread my post.

He. Pulled. The. Trigger.

Also, r155, that stuck out to me, too.

The people who fucked up were the corner cutting producers and big shots, who included Alec. When you're paid shit and treated like shit, this is what happens. It's not gonna work to dump the blame on some "scab" and make him a victim.

Guilty

I think the scab troll is where Baldwin's PR is gonna go since he always punches down.

If he had any decency, he would have stopped and cooled down after the Fake Spanish wife scandal. But he didn't. He couldn't. He can't stand not being famous.

And now he killed a woman on his cheap, poorly run movie. This is his fault. Stop trying to spin. He pulled the trigger, he killed her.

Your reputation is a match you can only burn once.

It's gonna come out that he was waving it around and gesturing when it went off. Doesn't have to be mad or hostile, just animated, and the gun is in his hand. He was off camera, not shooting a scene. "After all my years" (his words) he knows better than to handle firearms casually on set and with the way he operates I cannot blame some non-union person working for shit wages for not calling him out on it and being verbally battered by Baldwin on set and then fired. If they even had a crew member like that on set and they may not have seeing as they were a shit production.

You’re an idiot R164

Force your highly skilled union crew to walk off set and then play the victim after you kill someone - "Why was I handed a hot gun?"

Why?Because you were part of the executive team that decided to hire local unskilled scabs. He is absolutely guilty of negligence.

So Barry has all the kids, what’s with all the other Eunuchs??

It just gets worse and worse

R192 for the Brady Bunch thread

yea, repost a the same thing a million times fraus.

gays can read.

Is negligent homicide a charge? That's what it appears to be coming down to. In which case, Baldwin as producer is not off the hook. Possibly, neither is Souza, despite also being shot.

A criminal injured in the act of committing his own crime is not thereby immunized against prosecution by virtue of his own injury.

On this thread too - the scab armour was off set shooting live rounds with the gun and left a live round in the chamber. Which is why the bullet went through her body which a blank would not do.

There are a dozen different supposed insider stories being circulated about on social media. Who knows yet what actually happened.

Many people have small pieces of responsibility for this woman’s death, and each in a different way. That includes Alec, the person who loaded a real bullet in the gun, the person who was in charge of checking props and was either negligent or not qualified, the person responsible for crew treatment and safety on the set who failed to avoid a walkout, and probably more. In such a situation, a person of good character expresses sorry for the (even if small) part he played in the death, even if his lawyers warn him not to.

This scenario will be on a lot of Criminal Law exams for first-year law students.

Never in the history of DL has anyone ever implied that Alec Baldwin could possibly be capable of being a person of good character

[quote] I can't believe he expected the crew to drive 50 highway miles each way

Um, you do realize that many people commute that much every day to work right? On highways with no commuter traffic that's less than an hour's commuting time. That's not exactly torture. But, yea, I can see that as a cost cutting measure.

I thought some tweets were complaining they had NO hotel rooms. So is it that they had to travel further to work. Poor babies.

I was handed a hot gun.....I am not to blame.....someone handed me a hot gun.....it is not my fault.....I am very sad about all of this.....it is not my fault.......all I did was point the weapon and pull the trigger.....obviously someone else is to blame.....

Look over there!

They were working 15 hour days R202 - you fucking heartless prick.

for like a month. please.

We’re on it!

Alec tweets again. "Something happened to Somebody Somewhere. Let's have respect for Someone who might be Somewhat involved."

He's facing a manslaughter charge...minimum.

[quote] Alec tweets again. "Something happened to Somebody Somewhere. Let's have respect for Someone who might be Somewhat involved."

You forgot "somehow."

With the altitude and the climate, New Mexico might be beautiful, but even on temperate days it can take a lot out of you. a 15 hour day, mostly outside, in NM hours is a loooooong fucking time. Also people drive like maniacs out there. I've had one two many near misses than I care to count. ABQ is especially notorious, and the trip from Santa Fe to ABQ isn't exactly a smooth ride on any given day. Drunks, sleepy truckers, tourists, black ice, blah, blah, you get the idea.

*too

Not a month R205, it’s like the 10th day of a 21 day shoot. It’s a short Tier 1 production with a 6 million budget. Contracts were all negotiated and the Producers were argue everything was adhered to. IATSE is on edge right now because they just renegotiated their contracts, though the membership hasn’t officially voted on the new contracts.

AB will not be facing any kind of charges as an actor. It’s less clear whether or not he will have to answer as Producer, but I would say little. The gun was the responsibility of the armorer or the propmaster. The gun is handed to the actor at the last second and the actor fires the gun in the shot and immediately hands it back to propmaster or armorer. The propmaster or armore could face charges of negligence. We’ll see as the investigation continues.

No R208, that’s not happening.

r212 Hi Alec's PR poodle!

Almost a month. Nitpick muck, cunt?

There is no way his career recovers from this. He may not be done, but he'll never be a hint of the diminished star he is right now...

[quote] They were working 15 hour days [R202] - you fucking heartless prick.

Oh those poor babies. People all over the country work long hours. Many times they have to commute by bus that can take more than an hour.

This was an independent film and didn't have the budget. I don't trust anything out of the mouths of these whiners. They have an ulterior motive to lie and exaggerate. They will be doing everything possible to find something wrong with this production. Let's wait for an independent investigation to see where the blame lies.

Twitter witch hunts are insane.

His collapse, has it just started?

Are there any reports that he w as yelling at her when he shot her dead? Asking for a friend.

A series of mistakes and accidents can happen no matter what safeguards are in place but what gets me is that out of the thousands of movies it could have happened in, it happened to a guy like Alec. It's like raging idiots cause the universe to align in a particular way. He probably goes around in a fog that causes a thousand little inconveniences every day which feeds his rage even more.

I don't believe in karma but I do think some people's presence just makes some things more likely to happen. Sadly like always it's hardly ever the raging idiot who suffers the worst consequences.

Those poor bald babies are going to grow up without a father.

Brian Laundrie is so last month, Alec for DL villain 2021. Also I'm sure some dataloungers can't wait to write him in prison.

R217 not anymore! We all quit our jobs.

Sincerely,

The Great Resignation peons

[quote] It's like raging idiots cause the universe to align in a particular way. He probably goes around in a fog that causes a thousand little inconveniences every day which feeds his rage even more.... Sadly like always it's hardly ever the raging idiot who suffers the worst consequences.

What?

There are allegations that the schedule was manipulated so that the contract provision re: hotel rooms was not triggered, some crew were said to be sleeping in their vehicles.

Prior gun safety incidents had occurred on the Rust set, including with the weapon used to kill the poor woman.

No one can claim no notice re: safety concerns.

R199 the stories are pretty consistent about a cheap-ass, mean spirited production attitude.

No worries R221 they've been growing up without a father and for the most part without a mother.

¿How you say in your country “boo boo fuck up”?

It looks like being an asshole and having a dozen or so kids was already taking a hell of toll, and now this!

^*...hell of a toll

OBVIOUSLY.

^Hil(aria) of a toll

I don't know r220. Some people who REALLY deserve it are unaffected by karma.

"Misfires" with blanks? Or "Misfires" with real bullets?

Farewell to the 3 B's Baldwin, Biden Buttigieg

Fuck off, r234. No one wants your Q-anon equivalency garbage here.

Who handed me a hot gun on this set I sign off on where we don't give hotel rooms after 13 hour days and make crew sleep in their car? Where union people walk off and we hire non union for sub-scale wages and order them to take shortcuts? Who? Who handed me a hot gun? Who didn't have the stones to tell me to put the gun down when we weren't shooting? Who wouldn't risk losing his/her job or being bullied and humiliated verbally by me? Who? I want names!

911 call

Interesting new developments... the gun was loaded with five rounds. Alec Baldwin was handed the gun and told it was safe to use.

Why is it even possible to put live ammunition in a prop gun?

R235 did you take a survey? By the way have you taken care of the stench of crotch rot in your mother's basement?

I have the same question r238. What the hell is a prop gun? Is it a real gun with no ammo? Is it a fake? Like some people have been shot for wielding? What the hell.

R235, I don't know, are you drowning in Dump's crotch stink yet?

From the pics he is not in costume, this is a period piece western. I bet he pulled a Jon Eric Hexum and fired it as a joke at the DoP and Director. which any gun safety 101 class will tel you , never point a gun at someone as a joke even if you know it is not loaded. Never, Just fucking don't. Oh well will make a great match game quesiton. "Dumb Alex is so dumb, he thought firiing a gun at his DoP and Director was BLANK"

It's been explained. A prop gun is a gun that's used for a prop, r241. It can be fake or a real, functional one.

Maybe they were spacing the scene out to figure out where people needed to be for actual filming?

Thanks, r244. Doing a tad bit of research shows that. I didn't know real guns can be used as props, but they can.

R237 - I like the pic where he's bent over. Is it wrong of me to be staring at his ample ass in this time of grief?

Why even pull the trigger if they were only rehearsing? Seems reckless and against the most basic gun safety protocols. Plus, there had been previous gun safety incidents on that set and even with that weapon.

We now have our ending and we can work back for the "In Memoriam" segment.

JFC. The 911 call is being played on Anderson Cooper and the people who called can't even provide proper details.

R242 Have you noticed that your mother's dick tastes like shit?

I did not, but I see you're intimately familiar with dick shit, r251.

Their was a union walkout on set two days before regarding UNSAFE working conditions. They replaced with non union. The victim was implored to walk out with them , but declined because she felt her reputation as a female director of photography would be jeopardized . Alec is fucked

There

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Now Alec can go into politics.

At least he didn't support Trump, like his brother.

R257, has very low standards

Not lower than supporting Dump. That's as low as you go.

R259, the blood of Halyna Hutchins screams from the grave: "I agree. Vote McAuliffe 2021".

And I will follow her wishes, r260. Because I'm not an animal.

Her death is your mitzvah, r261. Your blessings abound.

All thanks to you, r262!

"Most people would be more careful even if it’s a stunt gun"

Thespians are NOT "most people", you simpleton.

They smile when they are low, r264.

WHY DID HE POINT THE GUN AT THE CINEMATOGRAPHER AND FIRE IT? That's what I want to know.

This is ALL OVER right wing Twitter, and has been for the past day. It's nuts. Like, they're totally obsessed with it. Not just one post or two but a dozen in a row all making little comments and remarks on it, dredging up Alec's past tweets to ridicule him, etc. They must really dislike him!

BTW it's the same kind of obsession they have for Hillary (and Hillaria), Meghan Markle, etc. - just unhinged hatred.

You mean "DL"?

r269 I haven't really paid much attention to these threads, other than I see a lot of the same comments here that I see on the unhinged hate threads on Twitter.

There has definitely been an upswing in likely straight (and the occasional bi person who won't shut up about being bi and therefore the world's biggest victim) right-wing posters.

From AP article:

[quote]An assistant director unwittingly handed Alec Baldwin a loaded weapon and told him it was safe to use in the moments before the actor fatally shot a cinematographer, court records released Friday show. “Cold gun,” the assistant director announced, according to a search warrant filed in a Santa Fe court.

[quote]According to the records, the gun was one of three that the film’s armorer, Hannah Gutierrez, had set on a cart outside the wooden structure where a scene was being acted. Assistant director Dave Halls grabbed the gun from the cart and brought it inside to Baldwin, unaware that it was loaded with live rounds, a detective wrote in the search warrant application.

[quote]Gun-safety protocol on sets in the United States has improved since then, said Steven Hall, a veteran director of photography in Britain. But he said one of the riskiest positions to be in is behind the camera because that person is in the line of fire in scenes where an actor appears to point a gun at the audience.

OMG, I didn’t realize that Alec B actually killed her. That’s not supposed to happen. I hope he feels like shit.

He looks like John Ritter.

It's fucking awful but the thread title made me fucking laugh OP.

Oooh, we've got names now - Hannah Guttierez and Dave Halls. I'm sure DL sleuths will dig up all the dirt on them.

Hilaria’s little Spanish escapade fraud of last Christmas is going to seem like a walk in the park compared to this for Miss Alec.

R270: Is it safe? Has that pack of marauding hyenas departed for the night?

I stopped in earlier and barely recognized the Baldwin threads as being a part of DL. The baseless speculation and fabrications were just awful; a thorough fumigation is in order.

Anyone to shift focus from the prior safety incidents on the set and away from Baldwin, the producer, eth?

Hilary's fall from grace knocked him off the wagon, he was openly buying booze in the Hamptoms last spring. Surely he can afford to have liquor delivered, but, why wait when your jonesing, am I right?

R277 fumigated the cinematographer. Now she's coming for you.

On LSA there's a report that Alec Baldwin was told he needed to reshoot the film and said, "Why don't I just shoot the two of you" and "playfully" fired the gun and the DP bled out.

Don't dare pass this on to crew and props. Alec probably has three times the experience of all the crew combined plus was an EP. He's been on action sets. You don't fool around with guns I don't care how cold you're told they are.

Gun expert on Cuomo said a blank couldn't have killed anyone at a distance.

Baldwin blaming the scab or whoever handed him the loaded gun is, as a poster said above, punching down. He's probably lawyering up now and won't go to prison (which you or I might have in similar circumstances) but it's good that he'll be spending his personal fortune hiring a battalion of lawyers to keep him out of it. The civil lawsuits will abound, too. KA-CHING!

And Hilarious will vamoose when the money starts to dry up and he has to sell a house of two, etc. Who in the industry would want to work or socialize with him now?

He killed her with a gun she apparently had loaded with live ammo and set out to be used??

[quote]the gun was one of three that the film’s armorer, Hannah Gutierrez, had set on a cart outside the wooden structure where a scene was being acted

"punching down" is used by idiots to defend antagonism against people they already hate. It's okay to bully and libel, because I'm not punching down!

r282 you live in fantasy land. Do you want his entire family dead, next? Would that satisfy your bloodlust?

So, it’s a Western?

Go away Baldwin cleaners pretending to defend DL. You all SUCK defending that narcissistic murderer.

Too cheap to keep the trained union crew and now a woman is DEAD.

I posted upthread that it’s such a unique situation. It’s not like AB found a gun lying around and pointed it randomly and shot. That might be something that can be prosecuted. In this case, he was told it was a prop. I can’t t

Sorry if I've missed this (there have been over 400 posts since I went to bed), but isn't the big question why he shot at them?

There was an early "explanation" on the thread that it was a shot where he was supposed to shoot at the camera - but surely they don't even put blanks in a gun that's meant to shoot up-close at a camera? Cameras are worth big bucks and CGI is pretty good.

If he wasn't meant to shoot at the camera, how did they get in his firing line? I'm not saying he knew he had a hot gun, but I can't figure how they can have been a legit target.

Oops clicked before I was done at r287. To continue… I can’t think of a similar situation in recent history.

Guess the safety concerns of the union crew who walked were PRETTY FUCKING VALID, eh?

Baldwin will spend plenty on crisis PR attempting to smear others and deflect blame.

SHAME ON HIM.

One version is that he shot at them "jokingly."

R288, it’s not even clear he was shooting at the camera. The people who were hurt could have been standing at any angle where they were vulnerable.

r286 you don't give one shit about the woman who is DEAD, and you know it, so you can cut the concern trolling. You're just here to bash on Baldwin and his wife. And your accusations of "cleaners" tells me you likely spend a lot of time bashing Duchess Meghan and similar other women, too.

Alec is anti union

R252 but didn't you notice that it tastes like your father's asshole?

^Hailey B. texting her cousin

I'm with [286].

And [293], why not take your sanctimonious ass off the thread? Who are YOU that you feel it's okay to accuse a poster of "concern-trolling" anyway? Your baseless accusations tell ME that you are a cunt.

R198, In the Fakebook thread, someone said it was an inexperienced 19 year old girl who was given the prop master role.

r297 gee, I wonder if you're a regular DL poster?

[R299] My apologies for not inserting "R."

I'm watching Rachel talk to an expert, r246. He said a a functional gun "can be used as a prop" but a "prop gun" has been modified so it can't be loaded with live bullets.

Ethan makes a good point. Ammo contamination? They're clearly real guns, so whoever owned it and loaned it to the studio left some ammo in it?

The 911 call was so strange. She was bitching about someone harassing her during her lunch break while speaking with a 911 operator about a life and death situation. I don't know if the person was traumatized or high or what, but not at all a normal affect for such a situation and lacked even basic facts.

All the narratives are to create confusion about the chain of custody when it is abundantly clear that it was an unsafe set particularly with regard to the handling of guns. As a producer who was ON SET Baldwin has responsibility. Crew walked off due to safety concerns.

Oh! I'm late! I have just found out about this and I must know what color of inappropriate lingerie the attention whore videotaped herself crying in?

Has his sister-in-law Chynna had a meltdown or tried to make it all about herself yet?

Someone named Dave Halls handed Alec the gun.

Go to IMDB. Dave Halls has been in the business a VERY long time and has AD'd some decent films. Very long resume.

Link.

Put on Don Lemon.

Dave Halls was one of the few crew members listed on IMDB. There's nothing much to see; he's been working steadily on tv shows and low-budget films since 1996.

He's also credited as playing "undertaker" in Rust. Eek.

And HE is in a HEAP of trouble...

MURDERER

It's been handled.

I wonder if there are any court decisions in California (because of Hollywood) that discuss who has the legal liability for the use of guns on movie sets. Is it "reasonable" for an actor to not personally inspect the chamber and ammo in a firearm before using it in such a situation, considering how dangerous they are, inherently? It *has* to have been litigated before now. Alec relies on the AD, who relies on the prop guy, who... WHO is legally responsible? It's GOT to be a settled legal issue.

Has anyone mentioned Jon Erik Hexum yet?

The 911 calls

Believe it or not, yeah.

Four months' experience as an armorer:

Armorer

Yellowstone Film Ranch

Mar 2021 - Jun 2021 4 months

Montana, United States

Loading firearms with appropriately sized blanks. Ensuring gun safety on set along with instructing actors on how to use their guns.

[quote] Alec relies on the AD, who relies on the prop guy, who... WHO is legally responsible? It's GOT to be a settled legal issue.

That is why there were NO charges when this happened with Brandon Lee. The gun in question went through so many hands, that there was no one the prosecution could point to and say "This person was responsible"

Was this a deliberate set up?

Let us mourn the original posterboy for gun issues on Hollywood sets.

r322 it does sound like something a cartoonishly evil union stereotype would do. "They fired us? Muhahahahaha, now they will alll.. die!"

R316, there may not be specific case law re: negligence and actors "failing" to check whether a gun is loaded or not. I'm guessing cases (civil) like this settle before trial. If there's no trial, there are usually no court decisions that issue.

Off the top of my head, I would guess that an actor has no "duty" to double-check a firearm to see whether it is loaded or not. That would seem like someone else's responsibility. Especially considering that not every actor is a gun owner, etc.

On "Talking Sopranos," Steve Schirripa (Bobby Bacala) said he knows nothing about guns (personally), but did handle firearms as part of his role in the Sopranos.

Mourn him! Cover Up was never good after he died.

[quote] And your accusations of "cleaners" tells me you likely spend a lot of time bashing

I blocked that asshole on other threads. He repeats cleaner over and over and becomes hysterical. Fucking loser.

"Has his sister-in-law Chynna had a meltdown or tried to make it all about herself yet?"

I feel like I could write the script word for word:

CHYNNA (adjusting camera): Oopsie-daisy! Hi, Youtube. (slamming door) My hubby just left. My handsome hubby. He doesn't want to be around when I make videos. And especially now, because of the tragic... the tragedy, but we're not gonna talk about that today, are we Mama?

MICHELLE: Not today, baby. Not today.

CHYNNA: We're just gonna trust in Jesus, right Mama?

MICHELLE (cackles): Whatever you say, baby.

CHYNNA: As you can see, I just have to keep praying for everyone. (gestures broadly) That's cool. Right, Mama?

MICHELLE: Right on, baby! Right on... Right on...

Regardless of her inexperience, R320, if she fucked up she's responsible.

Hexum's case is one of just sheer ignorance, he did not know that a gun loaded with blanks could kill you if used point-blank against the head. He was just fucking around with the gun, if I remember correctly, and it killed him, maybe he didn't even know it had a blank in it at the time but thought it was completely unloaded, I'm not sure. In this case, it appears Baldwin was 20 feet or so away from the victims, and so it was pretty obvious that a real bullet had been fired from the gun, since it killed one and grievously injured another, from that distance.

He's so gorgeous you don't even notice the hideous tween actor.

The tween looks like a Datalounger.

Well, R329, she is DEFINITELY fired.

Duh, R333. She needs to be charged if it's her fuck up.

Gun safety on set!

I understand Maddow's talking/talked about the Baldwin issue tonight.

Jesus, from that LinkedIn she sounds grossly unqualified to have that role. It should be a professional position requiring certified weapons training and weapons/ammo safety training comprising X-thousand hours logged, etc. A "videographer" shouldn't get to just put on a different hat for a few summer months and then be considered a qualified "Armorer."

It's pretty obvious lots of corners had been cut on this project. Cheapskates at work.

(Just like Muriel and this taped-together website).

So AB finally killed someone. Who didn't know this day would come? How much trouble is he or being a rich actor, is he in any trouble?

All of the gun experts that have been on TV today all have years and years of experience, R337. This woman clearly didn't. That's no excuse though, she took the job, she's responsible for her actions or inactions. It's not just her though, sounds to me like there's going to be a whole lot of people in trouble.

Hannah's father, on the other hand, has a lot of experience as an armorer (since 1993). Maybe they should have coughed up the money to hire him instead of a film student.

Regardless if charges are brought against Alec, this is America and in America our wealthy do not serve time. Certainly not if they are a celebrity and pseudo-leftist. I doubt he even loses any money over this.

r318 that newscaster sounds like John Mulaney

Why would there be charges against him, R344. He was told the weapon was cold. I can see him possibly being sued because he was a producer, but I don't think he's going to be charged. Sounds like the twit who was the "armorer" is at fault. She was responsible for the weapon, no? Wasn't that her job?

I remember the Unsolved Mysteries on the Brandon Lee shooting that mentioned above. Another series that covered it well was Cursed Films on AMC/AMC Plus.

Yes, and Alec, as her boss, is "responsible" for the damages that will be assessed in the court cases that arise from this. Whether insurance will cover those, we'll find out. I don't think he has any legal liability as a criminal matter, probably not even for any kind of manslaughter. But financially, likely so.

R331 Fun fact, the tween is the half-brother of Soleil Moon Frye.

^Her parents were hippies??

Why do people (websluth cunts) think talking in circles and repeating the same thing over and over progresses the discussion?

There had already been multiple gun safety incidents on the short shoot. Balwin is a producer and was on set. He should bear some responsibility. Cutting corners and hiring the unqualified when the union members expressed concerns re: safety led to a woman's death no matter what word games they play or how they try to play hot potato with the chain of possession of the gun. Another option would have been to respond to the safety concerns by enhancing safety protocols rather than killing someone.

Yes. How ironic it would be if Baldwin is held legally responsible for not beefing up the safety on the set, and then it was he himself who ended up doing the killing...

Has he made an angry video defending himself yet? Lolol. He will .

This is quite damning

There can be civil litigation against Baldwin, because the threshold for criminal liability is lower than in a civil court than a criminal court

But because the gun passed through so many hands, a criminal charge against Baldwin is unlikely - even if corners were cut. That is a civil matter, not criminal.

Interesting that the armorer is the daughter of a famous armorer. Sometimes the offspring of the successful turn out to be totally incompetent. Nepotism can be a terrible thing.

Cheney did it.

[quote]Was this a deliberate set up?

Let it go, R322; as we said, "It's been handled."

The armorer is in DEEEEPPP shit. Both the AD and Alec Baldwin were told the gun was cold with no live ammunition. The gun was handed to Baldwin for a rehearsal.

A cop show, “The Rookie” said it was immediately dropping the use of live guns and was only going to use fake guns and put muzzle flashes and smoke in post with CGI. I would I imagine this is going to change the industry completely.

Ten days is not a month R215. It’s less than two weeks. The whole shoot is less than a month. Stop.

@355- Agree, it really is.

When the assistant director handed Baldwin the gun saying "cold gun" all the reports say Baldwin started firing 2 seconds later and one person is dead. Even if it was a shot directed at the camera, this is what one pyrotechnic and special effects technician said: ":Anytime you see a movie where the barrel is pointed down the camera lens, there should not be an operator behind it. We would have additionally had a barrier between them."

And:If you are in the line of fire... You would have a face mask, you would have goggles, you would stand behind a Perspex screen, and you would minimize the number of people by the camera.

'What I don't understand in this instance is how two people have been injured, one tragically killed, in the same event,' Steven Hall, who has worked on films such as Fury and The Imitation Game, told BBC.

[quote]Interesting that the armorer is the daughter of a famous armorer.

I’ve just watched a few videos on him, and he has some serious credentials.

We won’t be adding Hannah to the thread for children who are more talented than their famous parents.

Why did Alec aim any gun at the cinematographer? My guess is he saw his bloated pig face and decided to play one of his angry "pranks." You know - where he attacks and berates people.

His apology is just a bit off. Of course he is wisely using legal advice with his words, but for a socialist democrat Alec Baldwin is one weirdly power tripping abusive husband and father and citizen. He's one very judgmental human being who is famously thin skinned and reactive. Rageaholic.

It's a disgusting tragedy and no doubt unintentional. That is not the same thing as faultless.

New Mexico has some lax laws when it comes to public records. I wouldn't be surprised if police body cam footage gets released soon if a FOIA is opened.

Alec Baldwin will have TWO VEAL CUTLETS for his last meal, you hog!

1. The plaintiff or suing party will name each and every entity on the set who could possibly have any liabllity.

2. A plaintiff has two years to sue.

3. The toddler who was eaten by an alligator in Disneyland . No lawsuit ever filed. Disney paid the. Mother of all settlements, that’s why. Not that Alec has that kind of cash.

4. Alex and others at the top of the food chain obviously have the most liability.

5. A case for Gross négligence is very strong. Safety crew walked out days before; there were two accidental discharges before this incident.

6. A key element is KNOWLEDGE - there was very clear knowledge beforehand of this danger and there was A FAILURE TO TAKE REASONABLE STEPS TO AVOID THE TRAGEDY WHICH THE PARTIES KNEW IR SHOULD HAVE KNOWN could happen.

I’m no fan but I feel badly for him. Victim of his own stupidity and narcissism . Of course we all feel worse for the woman’s husband and son.

Let's starting casting the minseries titled-Movie Set Tragedy

Oops meant to type "Let's start" not "Let's starting".

R367- Don't forget the SHweddy Balls!

And use real guns, with live ammo, and an incompetent armorer, R369? Wouldn't that be meta....

“WHICH ONE OF YOU BITCHES IS MY ARMORER???”

His lifetime of arrogance - I know better than those walkout union gun "experts" - finally caught up with him.

He went cheap on the production. But to hear about potential gun safety issues and to then not personally watch as the gun was loaded and to then shoot it so carelessly is moronic on a personal level. And the poor woman paid for his narcissism with her life

....

[quote] There can be civil litigation against Baldwin, because the threshold for criminal liability is lower than in a civil court than a criminal court

What? You don't litigate criminal liability in a civil court.

How they ended up with an inexperienced 19 year old

LA Tines has updated

LA Times

[quote] Safety protocols standard in the industry, including gun inspections, were not strictly followed on the “Rust” set near Santa Fe, the sources said. They said at least one of the camera operators complained last weekend to a production manager about gun safety on the set.

Now I don't think I want to see this movie.

"LA Tines has updated"

Is that a fork trade publication, r378?

[quote] What? You don't litigate criminal liability in a civil court.

Tell that to OJ Simpson

This is really damning

[quote] Three crew members who were present at the Bonanza Creek Ranch set on Saturday said they were particularly concerned about two accidental prop gun discharges.

[quote] Baldwin’s stunt double accidentally fired two rounds Saturday after being told that the gun was “cold” — lingo for a weapon that doesn’t have any ammunition, including blanks — two crew members who witnessed the episode told the Los Angeles Times.

[quote] “There should have been an investigation into what happened,” the crew member said. “There were no safety meetings. There was no assurance that it wouldn’t happen again. All they wanted to do was rush, rush, rush.”

[quote] Baldwin removed the gun from its holster once without incident, but the second time he repeated the action, ammunition flew toward the trio around the monitor. The projectile whizzed by the camera operator but penetrated Hutchins near her shoulder, then continued through to Souza. Hutchins immediately fell to the ground as crew members applied pressure to her wound in an attempt to stop the bleeding.

R380, I suspect this movie will never be finished and we won't see the existing footage for years, if ever.

[quote] The person in charge of overseeing the gun props, known as the armorer, Hannah Gutierrez Reed, could not be reached for comment. The 24-year-old is the daughter of veteran armorer Thell Reed and had recently completed her first film as the head armorer for the movie “The Old Way,” with Clint Howard and Nicolas Cage.

here are some 911 calls and transcripts, I know it's already posted earlier in this thread but I despise FOXNEWS and I won't click on it,

[quote] The dispatcher asked the caller, "Was it loaded with a real bullet?" The caller responded saying, "We don't, I don't, I cannot tell you that. We have two injuries from a movie gunshot.”

[quote] “And this (expletive) AD that yelled at me at lunch, asking about revisions, this mother (expletive.) (inaudible) He's supposed to check the guns. He's responsible for what happens on the set."

Wonder if the "producer" was Baldwin?

[quote[ One of the producers ordered the union members to leave the set and threatened to call security to remove them if they didn’t leave voluntarily.

[quote] The shooting occurred about six hours after the union camera crew left.

.....

Alec Baldwin, with the Prop Gun, on the Movie Set

How soon would Joan Rivers have this in her act, as she did with 9/11?

Be careful with that link at R390. I clicked the box to disallow notices and something weird happened. Screen goes blank, tells you you have a virus, and gives you a box to check to fix your "virus." I did a virus check (on my own app) and I didn't have one.

As producer, Baldwin certainly knew the union cameramen were being fired and replaced with non-union on the same day.

Shows how fucked up his priorities were. His own stunt man got a "cold" gun with live ammo a few days earlier and he's more worried about saving a few more bucks with non-union camera operators than looking into the gun safety issues

Be careful with that link at [R389]. I clicked the box to disallow notices and something weird happened. Screen goes blank, tells you you have a virus, and gives you a box to check to fix your "virus." I did a virus check (on my own app) and I didn't have one.

I meant link at R389.

I'm with R243. The pics of him distraught on set show he is NOT in costume, so the early assumption that he fired the shot during a take might have been misleading. If he wasn't in costume when he pointed the prop gun and pulled the trigger, then he wasn't using the appropriately or as part of his job and he's completely and totally fucked legally.

Now perhaps these pictures show him after he'd taken off the costume shirt (his shoes look like they might be part of an old west costume), I don't know. But it's an intriguing line of thought.

So, who will Hilaria's next husband be?

they already said it was a rehearsal, dumbfuck.

?Antonio Banderas?

Sean Penn recently came on the market, R396. It would be such a "smooth" transition that she might not even notice.

damn, that girl will never work again. but she's young enough to find another field...

the hashtags #AlecForPrison are popping up on twitter, no surprise, posted by Trumpards, and they immediately spread the rumor the murderer Baldwin also linked to CP.

Lol, R399. True. And Sean can still get it up.

R396, Scott Disick is available.

[quote]On LSA there's a report that Alec Baldwin was told he needed to reshoot the film and said, "Why don't I just shoot the two of you" and "playfully" fired the gun and the DP bled out.

That's from a faked news report already covered on Snopes.

Will SNL dare to touch this?

They mocked the Claudine Longet/Spider Sabich shooting mercilessly back in the 1970s.

SNL sucks Baldwin dick. I don't get his popularity at all. And no, he was never great looking. He was always posing with his pursed lips and ironic beefcake. He was arrogant but not sexy. Dude is slimy. Now he's old ugly, gross, lazy and fat with a hair trigger temper. KapoW!!

Divorce him Hilaria. You're still young and fertile!

I don't think the wife will leave him, she will never find anyone better than him. Face it, what man wants to deal with her baggage of 12 kids or whatever the number is. Rich men want younger pussy, not used up hole the size of grand canyon after squeezing out a million kids

Very exciting to hear Maddow talk about DL favorite Jon Erik Hexum tonight. I thought about you cunts as soon as his gorgeous mug came on the screen.

Who would want her, she is like an even crazier Octomom. She had 2 kids 5 months apart using a surrogate. And she pretends to be from Spain when she grew up in Boston. Only a drunk and junkie like Alec would take on her mess and that was before the litter of kids.

They are both OVAH. Yet, will continue to pimp out oldest girl.

How will Hilary cope?

If Baldwin wasn’t a producer on this project, and only an actor, wouldn’t you think he and Frances and Travis and Jensen and all the rest of the actors as SAG/AFTRA Union members would have walked off the set when the union crew walked off, out of solidarity?

It was no longer a union shoot when the crew walked off.

Isn’t it more likely they all remained because actor/PRODUCER Alec asked them to?

Alec Baldwin is too big to be canceled over this, R409. Sorry.

R408, Why does Joan Collins never mention working with him on that movie of the week where he was a male model she mentored?

Alec shills and cleaners out in force.

R411, He's not A-list.

Gayle King was expressing more sympathy Friday morning for Baldwin rather than the victim.

R395: Alec was in costume during the shooting. He changed into street clothes as the sheriff wanted the blood-stained costume.

Do not click on R389’s link. I also got the virus message scammy warning.

[quote] I mean...how the fuck did he also shoot another person? UNLESS he was being...Alec Baldwin...and aiming at them both in a fit of rage because it was getting close to lunch and they weren't working fast enough?

Now that's it's clear he had no idea he had been handed a gun with a live round in it and had no idea it did, I hope you are thoroughly ashamed of yourself.

R416, Anne Heche for the made for TV movie of the incident.

it figures infested websleuth cunts would give you a virus!

Hee, hee. Best day evah!!!

The "frantic" call from the script supervisor doesn't seem that frantic. She seems rather disinterested in the whole thing and only gets agitated when talking about how the AD yelled at her at lunch. Strange woman.

[quote] Now that's it's clear he had no idea he had been handed a gun with a live round in it and had no idea it did, I hope you are thoroughly ashamed of yourself.

Oh, fuck off. He pointed a GUN, loaded or not, at another human being and pulled the trigger. That is a despicable thing to do, under any circumstances. You sound like a total moron.

Very strange, R421.

There had been several gun safety incidents on the short shoot. Crew walked out in part over safety issues. Baldwin was a producer and was well on notice. His own stunt double had a "cold" gun go "hot" the previous weekend. Rather than address the safety concerns they told the union crew to leave and threatened to call the cops. 6 hours later a woman was dead.

Alec didn’t mean it, and I forgive him.

Why was he pointing it at the director and cinematographer? Was he supposed to be pointing it at the camera and they were behind it?

If Alec were conservative this thread would have a very different tone to it.

Baldwin is a straight up murderer and he should spend the rest of his life in prison.

[quote] [R411], He's not A-list.

Neither is Caitlyn Jenner and they didn’t cancel her when she killed a person with her car.

I don’t know what you people think is going to happen to Baldwin (or no longer happen for him) after this, but no one thinks he’s really to blame here. It was an unfortunate accident. People don’t become pariahs over something like this.

If Winona Ryder could become a pariah over shoplifting, Baldwin being a producer on a film that crew had deemed unsafe and walked off of and then this will follow him for the rest of his life. As will the lawsuits.

Almost every single actor in Hollywood who has starred or been featured n a Western or a detective/noir film or a military film has fired a prop gun at someone at some point in their career. And this hasn't happened. Alec Baldwin was doing nothing that Tom Cruise, Eddie Murphy, Ryan Gosling, Ewan McGregor, Tom Hardy, Daniel Craig, Will Smith, Keanu Reeves, Kevin Costner, etc. hasn't also done before.

This sounds like a case for SVU.

R427 They don't become pariahs after something like this? Add this to the 'rude little pig' message to his daughter, his refusing to stop playing a game on an airline post 9/11, his outbursts in NY including fighting with a man over a park spot, perpetuating his wife's pretentious nonsense and now a killer of a reason to shun the bastard.

^ parking spot

he's got some 'ludes in the freezer from 54. he's not worried about it tonight.

R428, When did Lainie Kazan last work? All she did was shoplift some lobsters.

wow r434 never heard of that story.

She had a pattern of doing it too! And at the same store so they were on the watch for her. Strange.

Since this was a movie set, will be interesting to see whether the gunfiring was recorded.

R427, Caitlyn Jenner is transgender. If she were a cishet man who were in the spotlight as conservative the media would have demanded he be held accountable and imprisoned.

Baldwin will get off I agree. But he would be imprisoned of he were conservative.

Imagine how different the coverage and this thread would be if it were about a gay celebrity like Ellen Degeneres were the shooter.

“”monster Ellen Degeneres shoots two” the CNN article headline would be

"Alec Baldwin is too big to be canceled over this, [R409]. Sorry."

Oh, he's too big to be cancelled over being the rude little pig he generally is, but he's not to big for being cancelled over killing someone in an unsafe environment that he helped to create.

By all accounts so far, the set was very unsafe and the producers made no effort to make things safer, quite the reverse. So this isn't going to go away or get hushed up, particularly when the IATSE (production crew union) has been threatening to strike over exactly these sorts of issues. So the lawsuits and criminal trials are going to be in the news for years and haunt Baldwin for the rest of his career, and if he wants to support his brood he's going to have to go looking for work in China or Dubai, or some other place where nobody gives a rat's ass about workplace safety.

Two theories: a) a stalker who changed the blanks for live amo., and b) a weapon lobbiist sneaking on set or getting a small job to do so doing hat to him. Wasn't he very outspoken against weapons?

The family of Baldwin’s victim may be able to get justice in New Mexico, which they wouldn’t get under celebrity justice in southern California.

I wonder what Kim and Ireland are thinking.

I never really liked Baldwin. He oozed arrogance and it was so off-putting. Then I learned about his rages and homophobia. Ugh.

R84 And I say kill yourself. Not sure why it's stupid or trolling to think that someone with noted anger issues would aim and pull the trigger of a prop gun that he assumed was not loaded in a fit of rage or frustration.

THAT'S such a ridiculous theory, you twat?

It's entirely possible that he was being a dickhead and handling the gun unprofessionally, R443, but so far none of the reports from the set have said that was the case. Instead, the leaks have all focused on the ongoing safety issues and negligent management, not Baldwin's temper and ego.

R444 So far...

[quote]The production should have been shut down when the unionized employees walked off, especially if a health and safety complaint was made.

Exactly. I'm hearing two stories, one that they walked off on their own that morning, which I got from the same source that Eoin Higgins's tweet has, but also that the union members were forcibly escorted off by cops. Sounds like it was both, that some left and then the others still on set were rounded up by cops.

A few people have mentioned that it's odd that the production had scabs set up to work, but everything I've heard about that is that production saw a walkout as imminent and made plans to hire non-union replacements and screw the union for what they felt was basically insubordination.

If things were that hostile and Halyna had been on the union's side and trying to help negotiate, noted anger aficionado Alec Baldwin is going to have a very tough time ever living this down. The cops will probably never charge him for anything but people will wonder for the rest of their lives if he didn't just lose his temper yet again.

[quote]Alec probably never thought in a million years that he would have been handed a "hot gun".

He should have, though. Everyone knows when you cut corners and hire people who aren't trained professionals, mistakes are made. When those mistakes involve real guns, you're putting people's lives in danger.

[quote]What the hell is a prop gun? Is it a real gun with no ammo? Is it a fake?

R241, a prop gun is either a fake gun that cannot be shot at all, or a real gun that doesn't use live ammo. "Prop gun" is used to describe either one of these.

Many movies use real guns with blanks because it's not easy to fake the physics of a shot, the reaction the gun has in the hand and the kickback especially are difficult to mimic. Also they will use a real gun in a shot where the gun can be seen clearly. There are many old films where you can see that a gun is fake, the barrel will be solid so no bullets can be loaded, or someone shoots and absolutely nothing moves even though in real life there would be at least mild kickback. It simply looks better to use a real gun.

Because real guns are used as "prop guns" so often, it's always the AD's job to check that a gun is safe. This AD had to have known the non-union locals were playing around with the gun and shooting live ammo during their downtime. It's inconceivable that the production allowed that, first of all, and even more unbelievable that the AD wasn't triple checking that gun every time it got near the set.

The fact that the same thing had just recently happened to his stunt double gives everyone involved in the incident knowledge that it’s possible (even likely) for it to happen again, unless they took steps to prevent it. If it’s shown they changed nothing, many people could be in trouble—but because they all share pieces of blame, i doubt they will have criminal issues, just civil $$$$ ones.

R395 Alec was in costume when he fired the fatal shot. Blood was splattered on his costume from the shooting. He changed into the black clothes and gave the Sheriff's Dept his bloodied costume.

I wish people like r280 would stop posting that fake shit on these threads. Someone on 4chan created two fake news article snippets with those fake quotes in them, and they keep getting spread around even though they were debunked almost immediately.

You know damn well that rightwing trolls have been all over this news, you can't just blindly believe everything you read about it.

R280 Snopes says that it is a false story being spread by someone who edited the text.

Sorry. I didn't see that somebody just posted this earlier.

[quote]There was an early "explanation" on the thread that it was a shot where he was supposed to shoot at the camera - but surely they don't even put blanks in a gun that's meant to shoot up-close at a camera?

Yes, they absolutely do. The actors shoot just slightly off to one angle so they are not shooting directly at any crew. Crew is removed from the line of fire of the blank, except those absolutely required to be there. Perspex shields and other safety measures are often used.

I think a lot of people thought this happened when they were trying to get a shot, because that made the most sense, given that movies love the shot where it looks like someone is firing at the camera. Finding out that it was rehearsal makes the whole situation worse.

It means that the non-union locals were allowed to play around with the gun with live ammo during their down time and that they didn't remove the live rounds when done, that the armorer placed the gun on the cart without checking to make sure there were no live rounds, that production was using real guns for rehearsals instead of a toy or rubber prop (which is what is recommended on all films), that the AD handed the gun to the actor without checking it first, and that the actor was either playing around with it or mishandled it.

That is an incredible series of mistakes involving several separate people who all knew better. It is criminal negligence. I doubt anyone will be charged, but it definitely crosses the line into criminality.

r303, r387 explains that: the AD is supposed to check the guns. The AD always checks the guns on the set. Others have already mentioned this but it bears repeating, I think. This AD is Dave Hall, he's got 30 years of experience on movies like Fargo and Matrix Reloaded, and it sounds like what the caller is saying is that Hall was fucking around instead of doing his job. That's why she mentioned it.

Friday's "Inside Edition" was so ambiguous.

It started off with a sympathetic to Baldwin telling of the shooting, followed by a segment that showed every single time he has lost his temper and lashed out in public, including once roughing up one of their own cameramen.

Inside Edition is still a thing?

R26, aren't there different types of producers in a production?

OP, you deserve an Oscar for the title of this thread alone, or whoever came up with it first if it wasn't you.

[quote]Rather than address the safety concerns they told the union crew to leave and threatened to call the cops. 6 hours later a woman was dead.

Who is this ‘they’ I keep reading about?

Surely that whole list of producers wasn’t actually on set - most probably weren’t even in New Mexico.

Which persons of authority were even on the set that day?

I’m guessing not many more than Baldwin.

Who called the cops on the union crew members that needed to be escorted off set?

And if the union crew had walked off set, which ones remained and why did they remain if it was a walk-off?

Were the remaining union crew members who intended to walk, but hadn’t yet, causing some sort of trouble? Or was calling the cops just a show of force by…which producers? ADs? Directors?

I'm sure there were plenty of phone calls and video calls about the union members' complaints made to those who make the decisions, if they weren't actually on set. The production company would have had employees on set to make sure those decisions got implemented.

[quote] OP, you deserve an Oscar for the title of this thread alone, or whoever came up with it first if it wasn't you.

I literally posted what exactly happened.

That fat slob has stress-eaten 76 cheeseburgers since his little spree shooting.

I still don’t understand why real bullets (not blanks) would ever need to be used on a film set, if that is what happened here.

R462, No, it's a brilliant title/headline. Trust me

R464, exactly

Or maybe one of the crew members who walked out did it for revenge?

They need to throw the book at this asshole.

This was a, how-you-say…accident?

I think this was just a freak accident of epic proportions all around. That poor lady, though! Her son is all of nine years old and this unfortunate situation is being published far and wide. I hope her husband sues the living fuckdom out of everyone.

If I have things straight the logic is that the person handing Alec Baldwin the gun was to have obtained it from a props department which checked it, then the person who had to carry the gun to Alec Baldwin had to check the gun, and then (maybe, I'm trying to be fair minded) Alec Baldwin should have checked the gun as well?! Is that correct?

Has anyone picked up on Alec Baldwin's age? Some media reports are claiming he is 68?! I wonder what's going on with that since I could have sworn he was 63.

R 54 there are a lot of "shots" where the camera is looking down the barrel. It's nothing unusual. Plus there is no way to accidentally have regular bullets in a gun on a film set. It's insane. My take is definitely sabotage, and I get more convinced the more I hear about it.

R470 = loon who believes that just because some asshole has ONE right opinion (hating Dump), he is incapable of ever doing wrong.

R470, did you know Hitler was a vegetarian who hated Stalin? That's TWO right opinions, so you know he was TWICE as unable to do anything bad ever!

R454 - "the actor was either playing around with it or mishandled it". this part of your imagined scenario doesn't need to be true at all. Baldwin was handed a live gun, but he didn't now, and he went through the rehearsal and did as directed and shot where he was supposed to shoot with blanks. AND A BULLET CAME OUT AND RIPPED THROUGH PEOPLE.

Baldwin might have some responsibility for the production being so shoddy and contentious but he didn't know he was shooting a live gun.

This is what happened in one episode of Columbia. Someone had deliberately loaded the prop gun with live ammo.

I have a question, since I’ve never touched a gun in my life. How difficult is it to accidentally discharge a weapon? I’m under the impression that you need a decent amount of PSI to squeeze the trigger, that there needs to be intentional force.

I thought it was established that:

- this was a rehearsal

- Baldwin had just pulled the gun out of the holster with no incident

- Baldwin pulls it out a second time and then it discharges

I don't believe Baldwin is any kind of legal trouble, re responsibility for the killing and wounding. He MIGHT be in legal trouble for proceeding to film in such unsafe circumstances, in his role as producer, we'll see what the facts show. I feel sorry for him, but I also believe that he is finished as an actor and as a celebrity. No more movies, no more SNL, no more NY Philharmonic broadcasts on NPR, and his lunatic wife's bebe' 'n' buzum show on Instagram is over. They're effectively out of business.

Has Kim Basinger commented on her doofus ex-husband's latest fuckup?

Regarding the 911 call: the woman isn't casually complaining about a co-worker, she is bitching about the AD who yelled at her during lunch about script revisions, that it was his responsibility to hand off a safe gun to Baldwin.

Alec's life is a textbook example of "The Luck of the Irish".

R476 I have hated Baldwin for years, since he became a trashy abuser of everyone around him but I doubt this will finish him. He will be forgiven as he has a built in liberal fanbase.

After he get troo this ordeal my Alec-ito will get a, uh, howyousay?, ovation of standings at the Emmys!

R437, arch conservative Dick Cheney wasn’t canceled when he PURPOSEFULLY shot a loaded gun (that he knew was loaded). It’s ridiculous you think a conservative wouldn’t get away with this, when they get away daily with breaking and flaunting the law.

I can’t think of any comparable case btw. Very unique circumstances. he was handed a gun that he was told was cold, and performed a scene. How many thousands of actors were told the same thing and performed without incident?

Cheney shoots to wound.

I shoot to kill.

To review the seeming facts from all the gleeful trolling -- Real guns are often used as "props" on movie shoots. These guns are often loaded with blanks, for takes, because the the physical behavior of a gun being shot is really impossible for an actor to mimic convincingly. For certain shots props, guns are pointed at the camera and/or other actors. There is a chain of protocol and standard safety measures when firearms are used on set -- the armourer, prop-master and AD are responsible for maintaining these safety measures and checking the firearms, not the actor; since blanks are also dangerous. When loaded with a blank for a take, the prop gun is considered and verbally identified as "hot" and necessary crew are placed behind protective screens if they are near the line of fire. During rehearsals prop guns are not usually loaded with blanks. Unloaded prop guns are considered and verbally identified as "cold." There is never a reason to have live ammuniton on set.

This incident occurred during a rehearsal, so the placement of crew and safety shields may have been different than it would have been for an actual take. The gun was verbally identified as "cold." There were noted problems with gun-safety on set before this incident; several union crew members expressed concern and several union crew members walked off the set earlier that day. Union crew were replaced with local non-union crew, who may have been less, even much less, experienced. Certain positions may have always been filled with non-union locals -- low budget films often do this. It seems that some non-union locals were "horsing around" with the prop guns and live ammunition during their off time -- this is both unnecessary from a production standpoint, and dangerously stupid. The producers and director where making crew and production decisions with the goal of saving money.

Baldwin, as an actor, is not responsible for checking the gun - that is not his job. He was apparently told by the AD that the gun was "cold" -- completely unloaded. Verifying that this is indeed the case is part of the AD's job. Baldwin, as a producer, is to some degree responsible to the crew and production decisions that were made --and the on-set atmosphere those decisions created; including the cost cutting measures of hiring non-union crew.

Baldwin 2024!

It'll be interesting to see if Hutchins will be included in the "In Memoriam" segment at the Oscars and, if so, what the audience's reaction will be.

R480, I'm sure you're right, as evidenced by so many of the comments here. But that will require ignoring the fact that he drove the union workers off set one way or another, and hired clearly unqualified scabs. And this in the middle of tumultuous negotiations and threatened IATSE strike over exactly these types of safety issues.

If you are a Hollywood type, it's gonna be hard to say you support the IATSE while cheering on Baldwin.

But it'll be done anyway. The only hypocrites bigger than politicians and religious leaders are Hollywood celebs and producers. "Oh, I love unions! I support the worker!"... (as long as it doesn't cost me an extra few bucks, because if it does, fuck 'em, I'll hire scabs.)

They're not, r464. It's been said several times on these threads alone, not to mention the articles and tweets and such, that live ammo is not allowed on set except for the instances when they want to film something really being shot. In those cases, it's a closed set with safety measures and someone trained making the shots.

What happened here is that crew members hired locally were playing with the guns with live ammo during their down time (shooting in the dessert) and left the ammo in. That hasn't made it to the papers yet I don't think but has been referenced in several tweets and screenshots, there are several posts on this thread about it. The ammo being left in happened once before with a stunt man and so they knew it was a concern but neither the AD nor the armorer bothered to check the gun before handing it over to Baldwin, and that was very specifically one of their jobs to do.

So many people are coming into the thread, not reading a single thing, and saying "I still don't understand why" and asking questions that have been answered a shit ton of times.

The Unions are the main culprit here.

^Yes, and they should just be ignored.

Again, for the last fucking time, the actor does NOT check the gun.

In fact, if the actor checks the gun, the AD has to do a check of it again to make sure the actor didn't screw something up on accident.

The reason the actor doesn't check the gun is Jon-Erik Hexum. True story. Actors are not hired for their knowledge of firearms. Actors don't check guns. The armoror, prop master, weapons expert etc. are hired for that. So is the AD, who always checks the gun before giving it to the actor, then takes the gun immediately after the scene is shot.

An anonymous actor on Twitter said when they had to use a gun, their firearms safety specialist had the gun in a case that was cuffed to them the whole day, so no one else could mess with it.

Maybe they can create a character for her and use the footage.

W. Earl Brown's thread about how guns are handled on set is a good one, too. I thought it had been linked on here before but I can't find it now, sorry if it's a repeat.

R487 It is very interesting how the battle between union vs scabs is playing out in this murder of the poor lady. Someone should be held responsible for her careless death but I doubt it. I have had jobs where our clients asked us to cross picket lines and I thought nothing of it. Unions are still big in H'wood but they mean nothing for most other fields. I have no doubt Baldwin will be blameless in the unfortunate lady's death.

I do feel sorry for Alec. I know he is a narcissist, hothead, etc., but I am sure he is despondent about this.

So from what I’ve read, the armorer and assistant director are ultimately responsible for processing guns and giving them to the actors in the state they’re supposed to be in. Although Union crew members walked off, did the armorer go with them? I don’t think so, and I’ve read the AD was still on set. I’m sure the police will walk them through their processes and determine where the slip ups occurred.

I don’t think he’ll be shunned but the extremely high-profile, high-swagger gigs are over. Small, quiet character roles. These things do fade somewhat; I have a hard time remembering what his wife’s little scandal was all about. But this one will be too big to go away completely.

[quote] If I have things straight the logic is that the person handing Alec Baldwin the gun was to have obtained it from a props department which checked it, then the person who had to carry the gun to Alec Baldwin had to check the gun, and then (maybe, I'm trying to be fair minded) Alec Baldwin should have checked the gun as well?! Is that correct?

NO. THAT IS NOT THIS WORKS. That is not how any of this works, as explained multiple times in this thread, and in at least a hundred articles written in the past twelve hours.

Actors NEVER check the gun because it is specifically handled and loaded by a propmaster or armorer and the guns are specifically retrofitted to not shoot real ammunition. If the actor were to futz with the gun, it could mess with the ammunition. The actor IS HANDED THE GUN BY THE ASSISTANT DIRECTOR OR ARMORER and everyone is told on set that a gun is shooting and whether the gun is “cold” (no ammo in gun) or “hot” (ammo in gun.)

In this specific instance, they were not even filming, they were rehearsing. Alec hit his mark, he was HANDED THE GUN by the AD who said “COLD GUN,” Alec pointed and the gun went off. The actor’s part in this process is literally last second FOR A REASON. There’s a long specific protocol in place on every production and movie that uses guns because guns can kill.

There’s a serious disconnect in how people understand TV and film production in general. They just don’t get it. Actors are not running around waving loaded guns.

Stop. You sound like morons.

The armorer was there R497. So was the AD. They cannot leave if guns are being used. The whole production would have had to shut down.

The armorer is 24. This is only her second movie. Her father is a famous armorer who taught her. She’s quoted in an interview as saying she thought she might not be ready. I think that was made clear yesterday.

He will be completely exonerated and I will hold nothing against him. I agree the media and public will stick this to him forever. The media because anything for a click. The public because they are pea-brained, hateful and envious and Alec being a hothead blowhard in life means he deserves to be destroyed.

I would be looking into that Assistant Director. He handed AB the gun and was also working on the Crow sequel when Brandon Lee was killed. It seems very fishy.

[quote] He handed AB the gun and was also working on the Crow sequel when Brandon Lee was killed. It seems very fishy.

If the AD worked on the Crow Sequel, he did NOT work with Brandon Lee who died during the filming of the first movie.

R502 knows this, r503. He's got about 500 sockpuppets and he trolls all these threads about crimes saying stupid things, hoping someone will pay attention to him.

Wonder if they also cut corners on INSURANCE? This quote is a doozy.

The gun went through many hands before reaching Baldwin. He trusted the last person who handed it to him.

But the real questions are, who brought a loaded gun onto the set and why?

There were crew members shooting the guns with live ammo in the desert while they had nothing to do. They apparently handed over the loaded gun to the armorer who put it on the cart with all the guns used for the film. Then the AD took the gun from the cart and gave it to Baldwin.

The crew members playing with the gun, the armorer, and the AD were all supposed to check the gun to make sure it didn't have live ammo. None of them did.

Hopefully R506 will be the last person to fucking ask this fucking question which was fucking answered several fucking times already.

^This has been discussed above, way up, go and hunt for it yourself.

R504 The sockpuppeteers are exhausting.

R503, you’re right. The way the article I read was written made it seem like he worked on the Brandon Lee film.

R504, shut up, it’s my first time posting on this thread.

From what I’ve read, especially r499, actors are actually forbidden with messing with the guns. This is because they could screw something up. If he did check it, it starts the process over again of the armorer and AD checking the gun. So even if Baldwin wanted to, he couldn’t check the gun beforehand.

Finally, again from what I’ve read, no matter what, live rounds (I.e., bullets) should never be used under any circumstances.

R507, I have read that as a rumor, has it been verified? Honestly, that makes the most sense though unless the prop guns were loaded with ammo purposefully for a nefarious reason—but I don’t believe at all that was the case.

"Did Halyna die of natural causes", asks Gayle King

To confirm, the AD worked on a sequel of The Crow, The Crow: Salvation, not the original movie. He really does have a ton of experience on quite a few high profile projects.

There’s still no proof real bullets were actually used and why, just a few unsubstantiated tweets that aren’t very easy to find among these megatheads.

‘scab’ also seems to be someone’s favourite word at the moment, and seeing it written constantly is getting annoying.

R515 needs to be blocked by everyone. Her atrocious spelling is reminiscent of Janbot. R515 is a sock puppeteer. Block it!

^R515, There's still no "proof" ANY of this ever happened at all. It's all just pure speculation. Don't be such a scab.

R517 is guilty of being a scab, sock puppeteer, and right wing Trump supporter. Block it!

Where is the online support from his friends and colleagues, Tina Fey, Howard Stern, Lorne Michaels, Whoopi, etc.?

R515, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck…

Only a live bullet could have done this kind of damage.

R515 only has three postings from this one scab, sock puppet account. No doubt she has 15 or more sock puppet accounts going on this one thread. Block it! Block all of 'em.

Your ability to block posters and see their posts depends on your cookies and theirs.

R515 may have lots of other posts that you don't see.

A union crew wouldn’t have been putting live rounds in a gun and horsing around. Absolutely not.

Wanting to go cheap on this production killed this woman. Baldwin should be liable as a producer.

Variety has reported there was one live round and other news articles have verified that since.

The LA Times has said there were THREE accidental discharges prior to the one that killed Hutchins. I know two were from a stunt man on Saturday, that's been reported.

There were several mentions earlier in the thread about someone saying the live rounds were left behind by people who had been using or practicing with live rounds elsewhere in the desert, it comes from a closed Facebook group screen shot I believe, I'm still trying to find it. I remember the post was from 2 days before the shooting and a crew member was alarmed by the lack of safety protocols, not just with guns but the whole shoot.

A competent armorer would never let a prop gun be used for anything but a prop during the course of the production, especially after hours, even if it’s his/her own rented property. Whomever used it was playing with production’s assets.

Reading R524–I think Alec Baldwin needs to be held accountable, especially with him being the producer of this film.

Exactly r525. I don't know that people were just "playing around" with it like someone earlier said, if there was a scene where they were going to fire live rounds into an inanimate object, then maybe it was someone practicing for the shot.

Learning that there were multiple incidents of live ammo in the gun prior to the incident where Hutchins was killed, though, that makes me wonder what was going on. Apparently there was one discharge, then two with a stunt man on Saturday, then one more with Baldwin. Surely no one needed to be practicing with live rounds for three days? And after the first accidental discharge of live ammo, how could it have happened again and again?

Do actors take producer very seriously or is it just a title. Is it basically meaningless?

…and why was live ammo on the set in the first place? From what I’ve read, live ammo should never be used—ever. By live ammo I’m referring to your normal, everyday bullets.

One thing's for sure, there's just always been so much drama and volatility around Alec. Not "karma" per se, but it's neither hard to imagine nor surprising that chaotic energy eventually somehow combusts.

I don’t know r295, how do you know what an asshole tastes like?

I know I’m feeding the troll, but he does seem to like talking about tasting assholes.

[quote]why was live ammo on the set in the first place?

Again, this has been answered four fucking million times.

Unfortunately, there are also people saying live ammo is never on a set ever, which isn't true. Live ammo IS used if there's a shot required where someone fires on an inanimate object, and they need that shot to look realistic. It's done on a closed set with safety measures and only necessary crew.

We don't know if there was a shot like that scheduled on Rust. My speculation is that there might have been and someone was practicing with live ammo for the upcoming shot, and that's how life ammo got left in the gun.

There's also a rumor that locals working on the set were allowed to play around with the guns in the desert when they weren't needed, and that was mentioned in some locked-down Facebook account, but like I said earlier I can't find that again. I saw it on Twitter several hours ago and no idea how to get to it again.

* live ammo, not life ammo at R532

Oh my goodness, I just got here!! Did they actually have REAL bullets on that set?! WHY??!!

R521 et al. is completely unhinged. It’s not even clear what they’re accusing me of. Something about Donald Trump and sock puppets? How funny.

It's because you said there was "no proof real bullets were actually used" r535, after multiple news sources have confirmed there were real bullets.

R528, Baldwin also co-wrote the story with the director, who then turned it into a script. Baldwin was very invested in the film and, thus, I suspect he was a very hands-on producer.

R532, the reason this is being brought up is that much of the stuff we’re reading, including stuff from film experts, says that live ammo is prohibited from being used on a movie set. Check out the article from the NYT which says that. This is a disconnect with what you’re saying. No need to jump down peoples’ throat—you may in fact be right. None of us are experts, which is why we’re questioning everything.

Maybe there’s a disconnect with what “live” means. I though “live” in the case of movies were blanks loaded into the gun.

[quote]I suspect he was a very hands-on producer.

Apparently not.

Felt pretty hands on to me. At least when he cocked that gun.

Here's the thing about Baldwin's culpability as an ACTOR. Posters insist he was not responsible for checking the gun, in fact he was prohibited from doing so. Ok, but gun safety rules expressly prohibit you from pointing a real gun at people under any circumstances, even if you "know" it's not loaded.

Actor Baldwin will say he was pointing it at the camera but reports say the two people shot were standing right there with no barrier and in violation of safety protocol. Actor Baldwin was negligent for this action but throw in his role as producer means that he knew or should have known about the unsafe conditions on the set. These are sufficient grounds for criminal negligent manslaughter or homicide:

Employer’s unsafe policies. An employer set unsafe practices and policies at the workplace. An employee who follows these unsafe practices and policies dies as a result. The prosecution would likely charge the employer with manslaughter. Depending on the exact facts, however, a jury could find the employer guilty of the less serious crime of negligent homicide.

There was so much reckless incompetence on this set that Baldwin knew or should have known about as producer AND as the star actor it's hard to understand how he wouldn't face a criminal negligence charge.

Here, r538:

[quote]The guidelines say live ammunition can be used on “a very rare occasion” for effects so long as precautions are taken ahead of filming and it is only on specific locations where live rounds are meant to be shot.

Maybe this article was never linked on these threads, I don't know, but people have been repeating this fact over and over and there's no reason for anyone to keep asking "But I thought you couldn't have live ammo on a set????" because we've established that it does happen on rare occasions.

This will probably be a Catelyn Jenner type deal, which is infuriating.

As an actor on a set with known gun safety issues, I would insist on personally watching as the gun I was going to use was being loaded

Unless safety is not competition for your narcissism, R544.

R541, I absolutely think he may have culpability as a producer. But not as an actor. It will be hard to prove that given that thousands of actors follow the same process and have pointed/shot a gun in a movie. I just feel it would be very, very difficult to prove. But as a producer? That’s another story.

Waiting to see the details come out—so many rumors out there it’s difficult to keep track.

Wasn't this the plot of a Murder She Wrote episode?

^Or maybe Magnum PI? Or Hawaii 5-0? Or Matlock? Perry Mason?

Thanks, r542, it probably has been posted. But there is conflicting info out there—and experts—who say otherwise. But after reading the article I suspect what you posted was true and there are limited instances where you would want to use live ammo. And since this was a western it may have been the case here.

No wait, didn't something like this happen on Golden Girls?!!

[Quote] I suspect he was a very hands-on producer.

[quote] Apparently not.

Or he was hands-on in the wrong way: firing the union crew who complained about unsafe practices and then allowed said practices to continue to keep the budget down.

I was one of the posters that suggested Baldwin should have checked the gun himself.

To clarify - the one time I was to use a gun in a scene, I never actually did the ‘checking’ myself.

I was given a rubber gun for rehearsal.

Then when the time came to shoot the scene (and the gun) I was *shown* by the armorer that the gun was loaded with one blank round. And then he handed me the gun - all while everyone on set stood perfectly quiet, paying close attention.

This happened each time the gun was returned to my hand.

The armorer was glad to show me each and every time, and I was glad to be shown each and every time.

Maybe the person who was calling 911 was doing it surreptitiously. Like, the people in charge said “we’ll handle this” and the person who called didn’t want to get in trouble for going behind their backs/against instructions. They were probably trying to see how bad the damage was, and come up with a story.

[quote] Guess the safety concerns of the union crew who walked were PRETTY FUCKING VALID, eh?

Exactly. But these were the people who sabotaged the gun in retaliation? Come on.

He can add another accolade to his long list of credits and accomplishments - killer

[quote]No wait, didn't something like this happen on Golden Girls?!!

I tried to get the writers to do a story like this with me aiming the "prop" gun at Betty White, but they didn't feel like it fit the tone of the show.

Alec will have no liability as an actor. He will have liability as a producer.

Alan Partridge sympathises with Alec

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

This whole thing is so fucking senseless.

The reason you stop and check the gun each time it’s brought to set is to avoid a freak accident, however unlikely.

But it WASN’T actually unlikely on this set - guns had misfired 3 times previously, and the union crew walked.

When that has already transpired, actor/producer/AD/armorer/whomever - you don’t behave LESS cautiously, you behave MORE cautiously.

WHAT. THE ACTUAL. FUCK?!

Could we PLEASE stop referring to the filmmaking term of the movie in questions as a "shoot"?

It wounds.

Well, the victim DID look a little irritatingly pushy with that "determined" smoky-eye look, it must be said.

Everything does happen for a reason.

I’ve been working in film since 1999 (including one of the Fast sequels) and we have never had real ammo on set, even when it was to shoot something inanimate. Actor shoots a blank, and SPFX (not visual, but practical) has a squib-type set up, elaborate cable set up, or pyro to shatter, get chunks flying, or blow up things.

Also had a friend who worked on The Crow, and said he could not work for about a year with the PTSD from the experience.

R557, he may have liability as an actor IF he did something that an actor is not supposed to be doing.

For example, if this was a rehearsal, was he supposed to pull the trigger? If in fact he was pointing the gun at the camera and missed, did he do it knowing that safeguards weren't in place (like clearing unnecessary personnel from the downrange area, and waiting until necessary personnel were behind shields)? Was he fooling around with the pistol? As many have mentioned, you NEVER point ANY gun, loaded or not, at something you don't intend to shoot at. Liability will be estabilshed based on regular procedures in the industry and what Baldwin should have known/did provably know.

It's really too early to convict or exonerate him based on his actions as an actor.

As a producer, though -- sounds like he's gonna be in for a world of hurt.

Low budget, made by scab films do not even remotely compare to huge budget, union films like the Fast series. Good fucking grief.

I do not know for sure, I'm not in the business, but I would say that it's probably cheaper to hire some local guy who knows how to shoot and have him shoot out a window (for example) than it is to set up squibs on clear glass and then do the necessary CGI to remove any visible parts of the squib that show in the shot.

It's like what happened on Midnight Rider, it's much safer to use CGI to get a shot on a picturesque train trestle, but when you've got a budget of three bucks and a side of fries, you actually go to a trestle and shoot there.

Can the crew sue Baldwin? They walked off the set hours before the death because of terrible working conditions.

R565, I’ve also worked several Tier 1 films, including a well-known non-union $1 million dollar film, with several shooting scenes, with the same protocols as the tent pole films, so there goes your theory.

Comment from an armorer who dealt with the production company:

R568, not all of us have Fraubook. Would you mind posting the comment?

Why were the non-union crew allowed to play around and fire the guns? Seems a likely source of live rounds getting in one, no?

R568 has Covid-brain. Total moron.

[quote] This whole thing is so fucking senseless.

Yes, exactly, the way these lazy posters keep asking and asking and reasking and rehashing these same stupid questions over and over and over again. Yes.

If only Jessica Fletcher had been visiting the set that day, we'd already know exactly what happened and why.

Ah my love, r571, I get tested 3x a week for CV for work, no positives yet! Despite this, I’m still a total moron- I attribute it to working 70-80 hours a week-lack of sleep does make you an idiot. How long have you worked in film production?

For those who don’t want to go on FB (it’s valuable for work for me):

Ryan Carr:

For those of you industry and non industry friends following this story. I unfortunately have some first hand insight. :( My thoughts are regret that I didn't say something earlier when I worked for this production company -Thomasville Pictures- in Feburary as a Thomasville Local. When I and multiple department heads including the prop master expressed shock for safety issues and poor planning concerning the very basics of set safety and common sense to multiple producers and were dismissed or just outright taken off the department head meeting schedule (no pay) or off the days shoot entirely.

1. This was totally avoidable. There are safety protocols in place, which is why this tragedy is so rare. Non industry but Thomasville friends... think Union Job.

2. I worked for this production company #ThomasvillePictures as a SAG Aftra stunt coordinator this year. I raised safety concerns during my employment. That was my job. I was not asked to be a part of their future projects. I had to educate producers on blanks, Class C explosives licence for SPFX department head, and numerous other concerns from car hits to any other type of crap you could think of. They had no idea what they were doing. I wouldn't let them around a horse none the less a gun. They dont know how to make the movies they are making.

3. This was a real gun and real bullet on set. Unforgivable.

4. The gun was taken for target practice by the propmasters daughter before filming. Ridiculous.

5. The gun was not checked on set. Insane.

6. The producers hired non union crew to film that day when their crew walked out for safety concerns the day before. That's when filming should have stopped.

7. There is a difference between a prop master and an armorer for a reason. They know better. Because I told them in Feburary.

8. The producers are responsible and ultimately negligent for hiring non union workers and not checking their work. Manslaughter.

9. Alec Baldwin is a union actor and a producer on the film Rust. Hes one of the bosses.

10. Thomasville Pictures is an unsafe production company. They cut corners and didnt hire union professionals. Thomasville let's them do everything for free. They got someone killed and should never be allowed to make movies again.

11. The prop master of the film One Way walked off of set for safety concers. Just like this movie. Foreshadowing

How many people need to walk off a movie set or say they feel unsafe before a producer will listen?

Send your thoughts and prayers to the families of Halyna Hutchins and Joel Souza not the producers of this film. It's not an accident. Its negligence. They dont know what they are doing. Everyone should claim responsibility for their incompetence instead of filming a western when they dont even know basic set or weapon safety. The best outcome is that these producers aren't allowed to make anymore movies and send every $ they saved being cheap to the child of Halyna Hutchins.

Someone posted this:

My brother works in the film industry and is active in the union @IATSE, so I asked him about Alec Baldwin being given a loaded gun and accidentally killing director of photography (DP) Halyna Hutchins.

He explained that it's a result of union busting, scabs, and negligence.

That FB post was quite telling.

Alec is spending a mint on crisis PR, so many posts missing from this thread and the very misleading title of the other one.

Feel free to carry on at Part III (linked below) when this thread closes shortly.

I'm just wondering how this all affects the inevitable 30 Rock reboot or reunion.....?

Descriptions I've read of Ms. Hutchins's wound was that she was shot in the shoulder.

One of the articles states that she was airlifted to the hospital. What was the time frame between the shooting and the victims receiving medical care?

How likely are shoulder wounds to be deadly?

R579- she was shot in the abdomen, which went through her, and it hit the director in the shoulder.

r576, there are no missing posts on this thread. You have posters blocked. I do too, and they're right wing trolls.

[quote]The gun was taken for target practice by the propmasters daughter before filming.

Ah, there it is. Thanks for posting this. It's not the screen shot I saw earlier (which I believe was written by a crew member named Lucy? Or Linda?) but it confirms that they DID use the gun for target practice, which is why live rounds kept getting into it.

R581

R583

R583, don't scare me like that!!

r580, more recent articles said she was shot in the chest and shoulder area.

That makes more sense than the earlier version that said she was shot in the abdomen and Souza was shot in the shoulder while crouching behind her, because I couldn't figure out why he would be crouching and blocking his view of the shot. Once I learned that it was during rehearsal, I thought maybe he WAS crouching. Then the details changed and now we're hearing she was shot in the chest or shoulder, depending on which article you read.

r987

Someone on Twitter said a Trump supporter probably switched the gun since Trump hated Baldwin for his making fun of him. Plausible.

R585

R588

R574, thanks for bringing that over. It comes with an obvious caveat - the writer is a union activist. That's fine but it betrays a lack of objectivity. The production company is not negligent for hiring non union workers. It may very well prove to have been negligent for hiring incompetent workers and advisers. The notion this writer is pushing is that unless you are union then you cannot be professional or competent. That's not the criteria for competency or professionalism.

There are many people who are expert at weapons safety and training and may not be part of any union.

And I say this as the proud descendent of union organizers who battled might forces to get the UAW and ILGWU organized. I am totally pro union.

Clearly the union wants to make an example of this production and this production company. I get that. But I hope that an objective independent investigation can be done without outside interference. Interference as in a threatened political entity (local sheriff, county, state) which doesn't want to risk the film industry or members of it threatening to boycott productions there. The film industry has a lot of money to get its way.

[quote]I'm just wondering how this all affects the inevitable 30 Rock reboot or reunion.....?

Oh, it’s evitable, alright. Verrrrry evitable.

New thread

R588 Kathy Griffith got cancer, Stormy Daniels' mouthpiece Avennatti was jailed and disbarred, Bill Clinton was hospitalized, Cuomo disgraced, Biden's poll numbers are in free fall and Baldwin accidentally killed someone. . .Trump's voodoo dolls are working overtime.

Why not link to the SAG-AFTRA safety bulletin document:

Excerpts:

"AS AN ACTOR, YOU ARE ULTIMATELY RESPONSIBLE fOR YOUR OWN SAfETY AND THE SAfETY Of YOUR fELLOW CAST MEMBERS. Production management and crew are responsible for creating and maintaining safe conditions, but it is your right and responsibility to double check the set up to ensure your own Safety. "

Cast members are other actors. Production and crew did not maintain safe conditions. It was a cascade of mistakes and not following gun safety protocol.

This from the NY Post:

Alec Baldwin failed to follow the No. 1 rule of gun safety before the fatal shooting on the set of “Rust,” a Hollywood weapons expert tells The Post.

“Loaded or unloaded, a weapon never gets pointed at another human being,” said Bryan Carpenter, who heads Dark Thirty Film Services.

Even on a film or TV set, he said “you never let the muzzle of a weapon cover something you don’t intend to destroy.”

Everybody is going to sue everybody here, for damages, negligence, slander, defamation, etc. Baldwin is going to get sued, he's going to file countersuits, and everyone's going to appeal, and all the major players including Baldwin are going to spend the rest of their lives taking whatever work they can get because they need to pay the lawyers.

There is also a good chance of manslaughter or criminal negligence charges against at least one person, maybe more than one.

Awwwww but poor Alec! He was so hot decades ago.

R595 R597 Right, this has been my take from the beginning when everyone was saying actor Alec wasn't at all responsible for pointing a gun and firing at people standing next to, or behind a camera, because he didn't realize the gun was loaded. It's the first rule of gun safety. If it was an underemployed actor grateful for any job and who was compelled not to question his superiors we would feel a little sorry for the guy, but he would still be some percentage responsible.

And of course we feel NO sympathy for the arrogant, smug, pugilistic blowhard who set everything in motion and delivered the mortal blow.