The Day Uncle Charlie Died

The NYT article

It was my first gay bar.

They showed the Golden Girls, right?

My first gay bar was' "The International Stud"

It used to be intense walking in when everyone at the front bar would stop and stare at the new arrival for a moment. Very 1986 to me.

The NYT always gets it wrong. ‘Stand and Model’ referred to uber-posing and fake nonchalance, rarely making eye contact, not ‘watching video screens.’

“S and M" (Stand and Model) bar, due to the fact that numerous patrons stared more at the TV screens than talked with one another.“

God I miss him. He gave the best back rubs.

R4 gotta love Harvey

Direct link to original NYT article.

It was my bar when I first moved to NYC in 1989 and through much of my twenties. I was cute, but I rarely got lucky there for some reason, I guess I just was not cute enough.

R6 is correct. His description of "S&M," as used in this context, is entirely correct. The NY Times... well, this is why I hate reporters. It's not their fault that they are assigned to write about something they don't know or understand. It's not their fault they often have short deadlines and no time whatsoever to gain any expertise on the subject of their story. But they write the damned things anyway and make a mess, time and again.

Back in the day, I picked up some really hot men in that bar on Friday and Saturday nights. But the damned place would be absolutely quiet when DYNASTY was on.

When it opened Uncle Charlies was a breath of fresh air for young gays. More so the white affluent sort that UC seemed to attract and or prefer.

Ninth Circle was dingy and dark, for young gays UC was a slice of heaven. Bright, open, huge television screens (Dynasty and Golden Girls nights were always packed), and in general something other bars in West Village lacked at the time.

UC remained open and popular though HIV/AIDs crisis of 1980's but by late 1990's even it couldn't compete with the new gay mecca, Chelsea.

By that time Greenwich and West Village both began changing. NYU was fast gobbling up much of Greenwich Village, 8th street of old with its numerous shops and other fun things slowly morphed into simply a part of NYU's campus.

On the other side of 7th avenue, West Village too was already changing. Money hadn't invaded en masse yet, but the area was a shell of what it was back in the day. HIV/AIDs had claimed so many lives and left too many ghosts. Chelsea was the new "gay district" of Manhattan leaving Christopher Street to largely minority gays and trannies.

Now of course everything down there is money, money, money. Saint Vincent's hospital is gone (now luxury condos), and in general area is all mostly affluent whites.

Bill Demarest could get it . . .

It also seemed to be the bar that made Cosmos popular the first time around (1980s) God, I hated those drinks.

Had friends who were attending NYU, so UC's was our spot. Would either meet them at dorms, or just wait for them at the bar. Some nights we'd walk across 8th street to get over to EV and Boy Bar for a change of scenery. On nice nights we'd also walk west into Village to see what was going on.

Often after staying late at UC's if nothing else was shaking we'd all head over to Tiffany's for a snack. Great place to people watch and "break the night".

G was the quintessential Stand and Model bar.

G Bar opened about a year before UC's closed. Chelsea queens simply upped the ante from what UC started.

That being said was amazed G Bar lasted long as it did. Twenty years was a darn good run!

Believe it or not there was an UC's reunion some time back. The FB page doesn't seem very active.

Women in Ty's.

OMG.

Talk about the end of an era.

It would be difficult if not impossible to recreate Uncle Charlie's today, at least how things were early on.

Place virtually was devoid of fraus (except the odd lone fag hags some gays just can't move without). No drag queens or trannies either. Truth to tell clientele seemed to skew white, young to early middle age and either college students or young professionals. That just wouldn't be allowed to happen today.

R19

Think those pictures were taken at UC's reunion, not a typical night at Ty's.

OTOH if Ty's has indeed been invaded by fraus, why should they alone be spared?

Days of stationing a bouncer at door to enforce "no open toed shoes" or something similar is long over.

[quote] That being said was amazed G Bar lasted long as it did. Twenty years was a darn good run!

It was able to change itself to survive. First it was a Stand and Model white gays bar (When I first came out, I went to G and came out hating myself because I thought THAT was what gay life was and I would be ignored for the rest of my life.). As that trend died, it became a black gay bar.

Where is our Don McLean to commemorate this event in song?

My very first gay bar. I will remember it always.

Peter Porte is sort of representative of a UC's type from back in day.

White, young, good looking (to downright very hot).. If not a professional maybe college or grad student. Lots of actors, models, etc.... In general even if not exactly Peter Porte, it was a very homogenous crowd of white gays.

There was a black guy who was part of our orbit back then so always tagged along to UC's. Being a snow queen he would stand around with his tongue hanging out. We'd be like "it's never going to happen..."

[quote]. Truth to tell clientele seemed to skew white, young to early middle age and either college students or young professionals. That just wouldn't be allowed to happen today.

There are bars where this is still true.

R26

I hope you're not going to mention Townhouse bar as an example.

UC's bartender Jimmy McNulty moved up to P-Town. He owns Jimmy's Hideaway.

More:

Nothing could beat brunch at The Spike where S&M meant both.

^Sunday brunch.

This thread is eldergay heaven! Did you all do the Hustle when you were watching Dynasty?

[quote]The Day Uncle Charlie Died

The headline led me to believe that Uncle Charlie, i.e., the person named Charlie who opened the Uncle Charlie's bars, died.

BTW, when did the Uncle Charlie's at 38th and 3rd close?

[quote]The headline led me to believe that Uncle Charlie, i.e., the person named Charlie who opened the Uncle Charlie's bars, died.

you're slow. it's OK.

[Quote] G Bar opened about a year before UC's closed. Chelsea queens simply upped the ante from what UC started

Upped the ante? It did? The SM part maybe but it was nothing compared to uncle Charlie's.

r34, not slow. I knew years ago that Uncle Charlie's had closed after the bombing. So when I saw the headline about Uncle Charlie dying, yes, I figured it was about Uncle Charlie, not his eponymous businesses.

I will say before I was even able to legally get into gay bars in the mid 1980s in the rural area of western Pennsylvania at a state college we were using the term S&M for stand and model for the Fashion Merchandising majors who were the most overdressed majors on campus and who would show up in the Consumer Health building in their perfect curated outfits striking poses in the hallway. There most have been some early 80s TV show that made the joke for us to have used it and caught on.

On a related note when I moved to NYC and fell in with a group of former FIT students,(most likely from Uncle Charlie’s) they told the story about how the word “sweaters” was a code word for cocaine on their campus so they could talk openly about it.

How I miss old dark outdated gay bars! The mission was perfectly clear then.

He died?

[quote]This thread is eldergay heaven! Did you all do the Hustle when you were watching Dynasty?

Only during the commercials.

And on roller skates R40

Uncle Charlie's is still open and thriving on 45th street.

loved the restaurant...grad school, no money, buy a drink at the bar, eat at the buffet...

Ninth Circle bar was just across avenue and about a block away from Uncle Charlie's.

Never known for being strict about ID it was one of first bars many young gays visited. When UC's opened however it cut down on their clientele. That or people just moved between the two since distance wasn't a problem.

Story goes that Ninth Circle stopped paying local NYPD protection money, and that's when place began to get raided. And there was much for LE to find; underage drinking, drug sales and use, hustlers......

With more and more of the gay scene moving to Chelsea ( Splash opened in 1991), it was amazing UC's hung on long as it did.

Shift from West/Greenwich Village to Chelsea as center of gay life (at least for younger gays) left a void in former.

Places that struggled as they coped with fall out from HIV/AIDs (many bars saw deaths of owners, staff, etc...), had to deal with another fresh slice of hell. By early 1990's money had discovered "down town" and was moving in on West and Greenwich Village.

Whole character of Sixth avenue and Seventh Avenue South began to change as rising rents forced out many old time businesses. The old working/middle class that were once stable of area were being pushed out by rising rents and other costs. If you didn't have luxury of living in rent regulated housing, you soon often had to find some place else as cheap digs down there became scarce.

Remember this was the area where Jane Jacobs and her followers who included large helpings of working/lower class Irish and Italians beat back Robert Moses.

Am not that old, but some of you ragging on "elder gay" who recalled UC along with West Village and Greenwich Village from back in 1980's or 1990's at least don't know what the fuck you are talking about.

I'd take either area back in 1980's compared to the sterile bougie money centered place West and Greenwich villages have become today.

It wasn't just the gay scene, but things overall. There was something for everyone, clubs, bars, restaurants, bakeries, etc....

You'd walk along Sixth, Seventh Avenue south, 8th Street, etc... in early evenings into late night and things were packed. You could see a film, maybe hit a jazz club, or someplace to hear a band live.. Afterwards hit a diner or late night spot for something to eat....

Christopher Street then had an energy that 8th avenue in Chelsea never could match.

Since no one went to a club before 1AM or so, UC's and other small bars are where you often went to meet up with friends, have some drinks and get your buzz started (club drinks were expensive and often watered down), before hitting The Saint, Crisco Disco, Roxy.....

On other end of things if you didn't manage to score at UC's (or any other bar) that night there was always after hours places like Alex in Wonderland.

At one time there was Uncle Charlie's South (561 Third avenue at 38th street), then Uncle Charlie's "Downtown" at 56 Greenwich Avenue in Village. Former opened first sometime in 1970's and was still going in 1980's when latter opened in 1981. Some of the action moved downtown to Greenwich Avenue location, but UC's on Third and 38th held on. Completing this trifecta was Uncle Charlies Restaurant at 542 Third avenue and 36th street.

Uncle Charlies South tried to get a variance from city back in late 1970's to change from a bar to "discothèque". Murry Hill residents were up in arms, and that was end of that idea.

Michael Ng supposedly opened another Uncle Charlie's at 87 Ludlow near Delancey, this was back in 2009. Never heard anything about it in terms of people going or any other buzz.

"Nightlife fixture Michael Ng is hoping that the same recipe of success—off-the-strip locale, live showtunes, buff bartenders—that worked at the Midtown East Uncle Charlie’s piano bar will attract a younger crowd at this LES location. This time out, "

This Uncle Charlie's piano bar seems to be final and only incarnation of brand in NYC as strictly a gay bar.

Cannot really say it is a "gay bar" as the place is really open to every and any one, which is likely how it has survived in new location and kept lights on/doors open.

For some reason piano bars and lounges like Townhouse, Brandy's and now UC's seem to hang on.

The piano bars hang on because the decibel level in them is generally more civilized than in gay bars that pump loud music from opening to closing.

There was an uncle Charlie’s on the upper east side like around 75 and Lexington. Anyone remember? Way back, early 80s. That when I went there.

I remember hearing about it in the late '70s, r51, but I never went there.

I wonder when, or whether, Uncle Charlie, the person, died.

Charlie Katz. Rip.

Uncle Charlie was not a nice guy.

I thought this thread was about William Demarest and we were going to see photos of of dishy Rob and that darling little Ernie.

Damn.

Had many free meals at the hot buffet at Uncle Charlie's restaurant when I was a poor graduate student.

More details....

Remembering Carl Lorenzen, waiter at Uncle Charlie's restaurant.

Thank you

My word! Scandal just follows owners of Uncle Charlie's brand...

Bob Sloate moved things down to Florida it seems...

Roy Cohn wasn't Louis Katz's lawyer for long after that fracas in 1986, he died 2 August of that year.

R 51 I remember the UC's on the Upper East Side but I preferred the downtown UC's. On the Upper East Side, I preferred Harry's Back East.

Raise your hands if you went to Manatus restaurant down on Bleecker before or after Uncle Charlie's!

Actually besides Tiffany's diner Manatus was one of the biggest pre or post bar/club hangouts. Great for Sunday brunch as well.

[quote]Raise your hands if you went to Manatus restaurant

I have no recollection of it AT ALL.

What was the name of the restaurant in that space before it was "Manatus?"

As I recall, there not a nickel's worth of difference between the menus. But the previous one was still more pleasant.

Clyde's?

Clydes. Yes!

Thank you.

"340 [Bleecker]: Manatus, gay-friendly restaurant with Manhattan's original Indian name. Was Clyde's, with a gay brunch scene; and before that Aldo's, another gay-oriented eatery. (Leonard Bernstein was a frequent diner there.) In the 1970s, the jazz club Boomers was here; Curtis Mayfield can be seen performing here in the 1972 movie Super Fly."

I went to manatus. What's there now? R67 That history of the site is amazing!

Uncle Charlie's was an NYU staple, I went there quite frequently, usually to see who I recognized from school. It was fun for a pass-or-two through to check out the younger crowd (I was 19 - 22 when I frequented there), get your disco on, check out the posers, but it was always too loud to try to have any conversation. Then I'd head over to the Ninth Circle which had a much more interesting & quieter vibe. Seedier, for sure, but lots of character. The 9th Circle story above at R44 is a good read, especially the comments.

Universal Grill took over from Manatus. Food Bar took over from Universal Grill.

I liked Uncle Charlie’s but never once hooked up with anyone there. Always hopeful but very shy. But I met the hottest guy I had ever been with at UC uptown. Brought him back and he got right on my dick (even though I was a bottom at the time). Beautiful man. I actually let him sleep in while I went to work and later realized that might not have been a good idea. But nothing was off when I got home.

I later saw him a few years later after I had moved to Boston. He lived in California and was still as cute. No sex, just coffee.

Still remains a very memorable but odd relationship

R69

UC's got a nice mix of various students and professionals in area.

Students & faculty from NYU. Doctors, nurses and other male staff from St. Vincent's hospital along with some students from their nursing school down on Christopher. FIT and Parson's were at UC's as well.

[quote] Brought him back and he got right on my dick (even though I was a bottom at the time)

"At the time"? Are you saying after him (and because of him) you became a top?

I think a movie based on The Ninth Circle would be fascinating. From Janis Joplin and Jimi Hendrix hanging out there, to Edward Albee seeing "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?" scrawled on a bathroom stall and thinking "That would make a great title for a play" ... to the hustlers and the cruisers ... to the multitudes from every walk of life that passed through there. So much character, so much history. It would make a great film - or extended series.

R54 Wow, what a story! So trashy and told with typical NYP aplomb.

R74

Ninth Circle's backstory was hardly unique in NYC or many other urban areas...

From above linked story:

"But in the 1970’s what little star power and customers that remained were not enough to keep business going. Ruskin sold full ownership of The Circle to Bobby Krivitz. (The drug and mob stories I can tell there folks.)

The restaurant section downstairs was closed and became a disco starting out completely straight but realizing that there were some serious dollars to be made of the newly liberated gay crowd in NYC, The Ninth Circle literally became a gay bar overnight."

/quote

That scenario more or less could describe scores of gay bars and clubs from Massachusetts to California. In fact you probably could add places in Paris, London a some other international cities as well.

Bars or clubs that once had a thriving straight (and or legitimate business) which declined, often gained a new lease on life catering to gays either fully or maybe certain nights per week.

Back then straights had tons of places to go, and what was "in" on year often was "out" with this or that crowd a few years later and people moved on.

Gays OTOH were almost like a captive audience. For a variety of reasons number of places for gays was comparatively small, thus often a very lucrative business model.

On another note interesting Village Voice piece on Max's Kansas City, spot owned by Mickey Ruskin who once owned Ninth Circle.

To understand how Ninth Circle in original incarnation attracted Janis Joplin et al, you need to also understand Max's Kanas City and more importantly man behind both ventures, Mickey Ruskin.

Mickey Ruskin (died in 1986, aged 50 of drug overdose), was one of those people who was not only in right place at proper time, but knew enough to seize the moment.

Andy Warhol and other artists of time flooded Max's Kansas city with art the gave in lieu of money. In exchange Mr. Ruskin let them run up bar tabs....

In conclusion instead of focusing on just Ninth Circle (which was but one of Mickey Ruskin's venues, one would suggest opening things up to man's entire life or at least including his other bars/clubs/restaurants.

Thanks, R76, R77 and R78, but not the same thing at all. Yes there are a million nyc establishments that became the secret hideaways of the glitterati - and particularly the Warhol crowd - But then, of course, they wouldn't become all that secret ... whether it's CBGB's, Studio 54, Limelight, Area ... where-ever.

Ninth Circle was its own universe -and not just about the two things you mention: the sudden switch from straight to gay, or for a Warhol or a Bowie to set up and hold court (although Warhol, too, was known to visit Ninth Circle occasionally). I don't know if you had ever gone there or not, but it was such a strange and wonderful (and sometimes a frightening) place to go, particularly after breezing through the completely homogenous stand and stare joints like Uncle Charlies. I was never there when there was a Bowie or a Warhol, but the place reeked of history. More importantly, it was filled with such a disparate group of misfits that it clearly WAS history in real time. It's just a place that is gone, and we'll never see the likes of it again. Its name was perfect (and why it would be fitting as a movie or series title), as you really were in the Ninth Circle of Hell - which, when you think about it, must be a much more fascinating place than Heaven. Places like Stonewall get all the attention, and even become tourist attractions (even though today's Stonewall isn't anything like the original, not even in the same spot). The Ninth Circle was the real deal and a real slice of gay - and not just nyc chic - history.

[Quote] even though today's Stonewall isn't anything like the original, not even in the same spot

I was telling the same thing to a middle aged father who had recently come out as a screeching queen and was loudly celebrating Stonewall. And then I saw the hurt and befuddled look on his face and I eased off.

It's just a tourist trap now. Lions Head next door is another interesting place. Is it still there?

[Quote] even though today's Stonewall isn't anything like the original, not even in the same spot

I was telling the same thing to a middle aged father who had recently come out as a screeching queen and was loudly celebrating Stonewall. And then I saw the hurt and befuddled look on his face and I eased off.

It's just a tourist trap now. Lions Head next door is another interesting place. Is it still there?

I thought this was about William Demarest. But I'm not from New York.

Ninth Circle always scared me when I first moved there at 21 in 1990. Now I wish I had gone. I learned to appreciate the unsavory characters and crazies of NYC in time - but as a recent college grad from the sticks, UC was much more comfortable for me. Met lots of clean cut professional men who I could relate to.

Julius was even scary to me back then. Hustlers and old men. Now I long for those days.

R83, you are alive today, if only in part, because you were reasonably apprehensive about some places. If you unsure of them, you weren't ready. You did well to listen to your own concerns.

[quote] today's Stonewall isn't anything like the original, not even in the same spot

Where was original spot, and when did it change?

I mean, it is close - by like half a storefront. But the division of the commercial properties changed somewhat and the nail salon or whatever that was on the exact spot wasn't going anywhere. Today's Stonewall takes up what used to be the western half of the original bar - but totally rebuilt from scratch (it had been a bagel shop) and is a modified 'replica'. The rebuild was in the early 90's.

[quote] Today's Stonewall takes up what used to be the western half of the original bar

So it actually IS on the same spot after all.

My understanding is Stonewall today is the space next door to the original. I don’t think it occupied any of the current space.

Wiki entry pretty much covers everything.

quote:

The original Inn, which operated between 1967 and 1969, was located at 51–53 Christopher Street, between Seventh Avenue South and Waverly Place.[4] The Stonewall Inn in New York went out of business shortly after the uprising and was leased as two separate spaces to a number of different businesses over the years. A bar named Stonewall operated out of 51 Christopher Street in 1987–1989; when it closed, the historic vertical sign was removed from the building's facade. None of the original Stonewall Inn's interior finishes remain. In 1990, 53 Christopher Street was leased to a new bar named New Jimmy's at Stonewall Place and about a year later the bar's owner changed the name to Stonewall. The current management bought the bar in 2006 and have operated it as the Stonewall Inn ever since. The buildings at 51 and 53 Christopher Street are privately owned.

/quote:

Recall 51 Christopher Street was in danger of being put onto open market instead of becoming part of Stonewall "park" landmark site.

Courtesy of my blog about buildings, statues and other bits that make Manhattan, NYC wonderful.

Thanks, R89.

In other words, R79, R80, and R88 were all dead wrong about Stonewall not being in the same spot.

R92

See R90 for full and detailed history of properties 51-53 Christopher Street.

"By 1934 the bakery was replaced a restaurant, Bonnie's Stonewall Inn. Architect Harry Yarish gave the first floor a neo-Colonial brick facade with arched doorways and a shallow columned portico at No. 53. The upper floors were stuccoed. The "back room" in No. 51 was a popular spot for groups. On March 25, 1938, for instance, The Richmond Hill Record announced "Members of the Richmond Hill Council 1625, Royal Arcaneum, and their guests will dine and dance at 8:30 tomorrow night at the Stonewall Inn, 53 Christopher Street, Manhattan."

Prohibition ended in 1933 and so New Year's Eve celebrations that year were eagerly anticipated. The New York Sun reported that the prix fixe cost at the Stonewall Inn would be $6.50 per person, or about $115 today.

Everyday dining was much more affordable. In 1939 the Stonewall Inn advertised "lunch from 50 cents, dinner from 75 cents." The cost of the least expensive dinner would be about $13.70 today."

Also:

"In 1966 the restaurant closed. Gangsters affiliated with the Genovese family converted the space to a gay bar. Among the renovations was the removal of the portico. Gay bars were illegal and for protection and privacy the owners painted the windows black and installed plywood inserts inside. The wooden doors were reinforced with steel doors on the inner side to slow down police. The club opened, keeping the name of the Stonewall Inn, in March 1967.

The New York State Liquor Authority forbade the serving of alcohol to disorderly persons. Homosexuals were defined as disorderly and, therefore, it was illegal to serve admitted gays. Patrons suspected of being homosexual could be legally evicted or ordered to face forward at the bar to prevent them from making eye contact with other patrons.

To circumvent the liquor law, the bar held a social club license. Presumably members brought their own liquor. The truth was that customers paid high prices for watered-down whiskey and black market beer. As was the case with Prohibition speakeasies, customers knocked on the door to be checked out through a tiny window by an attendant. If admitted, they paid a cover fee and signed in (normally using false names, of course).

The main barroom was in No. 51. There was dancing (also against the law) both here and in "the backroom." Historians agree that it continued to operate because regular bribes were paid to the Sixth Precinct. Nevertheless, raids were made for appearance's sake, with advance notice given to the owners so that liquor and money could be removed beforehand."

Finally:

"The Stonewall Inn limped along for four months before closing in October 1969. The sudden notoriety and the inability to obtain a liquor license were too much to overcome. The two buildings were again separated.

The 1970's and early '80's saw Bagel And...in No. 51. The dingy interior of the old Stonewall Inn was gone. The New York Times food critic Mimi Sheraton described the shop on August 31, 1976, saying its wood paneling "has a high-quality finish...Wood columns with a sprayed effect, reflected in diamond-shaped mirrors, take on the effect of a never-ending abstract forest." The owners of Bagel And...widened the store entrance to match the one next door.

The Stonewall (without the "Inn") reopened as a gay bar in No. 51 in 1987. It was not a success, however, and closed in October 1989, replaced by a men's clothing store.

In the meantime No. 53 was home to Bowl & Board, and then to the Szechuan Cottage Restaurant around 1982. And then in 1993 the third Stonewall opened in No. 53. Renovations were made and for several years it enjoyed popularity, but closed in 2006. The space was renovated in January the following year for the Stonewall Inn, a gay bar which survives. "

As is quite common with NYC real estate two adjoining lots were combined to form one.

Here is image of 51 and 51 Christopher street taken when Bagel And (51 Christopher Street), and Bowl and Board (at 53) were again separate addresses.

Bowl and Board eventually moved over to East Village, and "new" Stonewall opened in space at 53 Christopher street.

Bowl and Board moved about rather a lot...

First they were down the block at 43 Christopher street (1970). By 1974 they had moved to 53 Christopher street.

These were West Village locations of an East Village store of same name owned and run by a legendary and colorful figure, Charles FitzGerald

OK, OK ... it's pretty much the same location - but everything about it is fabricated.

R92 it's not the same Stonewall though it might be on part of the same site. It's not as if it's the same establishment was handed down, bought or changed hands. The owners are just exploiting the association. A plaque would be more honest but it wouldn't make any money would it?

At time of arrests and subsequent riots 51 and 53 Christopher street were joined as one establishment. What happened on which side of building when is being rather petty. It's not like anyone is saying events occurred several doors away.

I had a lot of fun there. I was young and hot and horny and it seemed everyone else was, too. I loved it especially in the summer when guys wore shorts and tank-tops and showed a lot of skin. Got my ticket punched more than a few times by stopping in at UC's.

*lifts her glass with a tear in her eye*

[quote] R92 it's not the same Stonewall though it might be on part of the same site

Correct, R97, but those other posters were specifically saying it was not the same site.

found this on Cafe Press

I grieved more when the other Uncle Charlie died.

Fred MacMurray was rumored to be one tight fisted SOB when it came to money. So can see him bringing in his late wife's father (the boy's maternal grandfather) on My Three Sons to be housekeeper, nanny, and char "person". Cheap labor I suppose.

bump

If it wasn't for legend or whatever about Stonewall no one would bother to keep trying to make a bar in that location happen.

Even before HIV/AIDs crisis decimated the Village gay scene Stonewall "Inn" or whatever in various incarnations couldn't survive. Must have passed the place scores of times in 1990's and never was tempted to go in. Now Monster across the street was another story...

A bit off-topic, but does anyone remember the Columbia Dance events that happened like once a month in the late 90s?

I’ve also heard legend of hotel sex parties in the Wall Street area in the 90s or early 2000s and someone named Twisty?

Those Columbia dance parties were in the early 90's too. I remember going to them in 1990/91.

You would think that someone would approach all the mega rich gays like Geffen to buy both 51 and 53 so it could be reunited and turned into a museum but since it's taken Hollywood over 50 years to build their movie museum, I guess it's not a shock that it's never happened.

R109 Well, it’s a little too late now with the announcement of the new Gay museum to be included in The New York Historical Society.

Well, I don't think a gay wing in a NY Historical Museum would mean you couldn't turn the actual Stonewall site into a museum....I mean, it IS the real deal.

Well that would really complicates things for fundraising, unless they were to link them and have it as an extension of the Museum at this point, or for a National Gay and Lesbian Museum on the Mall and have it as an branch like the Custom House location for the Museum of the American Indian.

I went to a few of those Columbia University gay dances in the early 80’s. They were fun, if not low key. I always had a thing for hot nerdy guys but never met anyone there, but had fun with my friends. Man, this thread is bringing back some memories of what a simple yet complicated time that was in New York. I’m blessed I live to tell the tales.

Twisty! Oh, my. YES!

bump

bump, I said!

Bump all you like, there really isn't anything more to say about Uncle Charlie's.

Actually, I was more intrigued by the Ninth Circle posts ... but just too lazy to start a new thread.

Long as Uncle Charlie's didn't bother about ID to get in or whatever my friends and I didn't really bother with Ninth Circle. It just reminded us too much of the sort of neighborhood spot for older men...

UC's had better drinks, video screens, great music (on most nights), and fun events like Dynasty, Brideshead Revisited, Oscar, Tony Awards and other event nights.

As mentioned many times in this thread UC's tended to draw a younger college/professional demographic, something that we found more appealing than many of the older bars in area including Ninth Circle.

I was in my 20's during Uncle Charlie's heyday on Greenwich Street. It was far more comfortable for most young men to go to Uncle Charlie's and compete the night away with the other young men. It could exhausting. It could be frustrating. Or you might meet The Man of Your Dreams (R).

But in an evening at a bar like Julius or the Ninth Circle, a young man was certain to get hit on hard and relentlessly by a drunken old man. There were many nice guys and the evening with them could be fun. But there was always in any evening at those bars, and others, at least one staggering drunk who would leer and approach, spilling a drink on his prey, while grabbing the kid's ass. To avoid those uncomfortable encounters, I avoided Ninth Circle and Julius. I was young, but I wasn't naive and those old drunks were nothing but trouble.

OP-When I glanced at the title of your thread I thought at first you were talking about the ALL YOU CAN EAT restaurant I remember as a kid called BEEFSTEAK CHARLIES.

By the fall of 1994 when I started going to gay bars heavily the center of the gay scene - for younger guys - had shifted to Chelsea. Uncle Charlies was no longer THE place to see and be seen it was now SPLASH bar.

Splash.

What a dump.

R123- In the mid to late 1990's it wasn't a dump.