Netherlands making it much harder for American tourists to travel there this fall

Now that pot is legal in a lot of US states, there's no reason to go and have an "Amster-DAM" good time.

Nobody follows any rules in the NL. You can do whatever the fuck you want.

r2

Trouble is there is no one there anyone would want to fuck. They are an ugly race.

Here's a link:

Nobody is sure which of the States are reporting accurate figures?

They also can't block arrivals by State of residence, the result is a 10 day quarantine for all US arrivals.

Keep your asses at home, this is why we have shit like covid running around the world.

[quote]I was planning a trip there in December and now don’t know what the fuck to do.

Here's a cool idea OP: don't be an entitled brat. Stay home.

"Authorities in the Netherlands also have stressed that starting from today, September 6; US travellers will also be required to present a negative result of the COVID-19 test upon their arrival."

Pretty difficult to do if you're getting ready to board your flight. Or worse, already on your way.

Sorry, here’s the link I forgot to post.

Fuck off, R7. I’ve waited enough. I’m fully vaccinated.

And perhaps the Netherlands has a right to protect their citizens from diseased Americans OP. Especially since you can buy fake vaccine cards easily here. Sit your privileged ass at home until the pandemic eases.

Everyone has to be somewhere. If you're vaccinated whether that place is Amsterdam or New Amsterdam really doesn't make much difference.

Of course those who want you to stay hyped up and scared will tell you to stay home and cower.

Op, I don;t know what you want us to say other than that sucks. But you know full well the COVID restrictions are not all about you and the world does not revovle around you. Many of us would like to travel abroad this winter but we cannot. It sucks, but the law is the law. You have to be an adult and deal with it.

At the moment you can still go to Germany -- lot more to see there than in tiny Holland -- and Austria and a whole bunch of other countries. Just be flexible and you'll have a great vacation.

I was OBSESSED with Amsterdam in the early 2000's as a gayling and would go there yearly until I had a bad experience with an edible . I was reading pre-covid that a large percentage of the Netherlands was very much into reducing the party tourism and tourism in general, especially from the US and I would bet eventually the UK. This seems like a convenient excuse to start implementing that reduction strategy.

Gee, I wonder other european countries will follow suit...

How are you guys buying your tickets? Do you get travel insurance in case you have to change the dates?

Travel insurance often does not cover that sort of loss. So buy your tickets a week or two before departure, look for tickets with low or no change fees, book rooms that can cancelled. And so on. But recognize that things can go wrong and that some money might go down the drain.

I agree. Go to Germany which is beautiful at Christmas time. Just watch out for suicide bombers in the Xmas markets

They are looking at cases per country. This makes sense. USA is not doing anything to keep cases down because a major political party in the USA (Republicans) want to kill people with Covid. Republicans are nutjobs and fascist now. USA is not stable or sane at all.

are you guys traveling for the xmas holidays? going abroad to spend xmas holidays with loved ones or relatives?

Yes, if allowed.

OP - they didn't check us at the border control, although we both had vaccine cards and negative tests. The officer just waved us away once we showed him our visas and passports. HOWEVER, we did come in an airplane from Romania so maybe that is why. In any case, I hope you can do something. It is SOOOOOOO worth seeing Amsterdam and don't listen to the potheads. It's so much fun and so lively, you don't even need the weed.

Infected double vaccinated are dying from Delta at almost four and a half times the rate of the unvaccinated.

Infected double vaccinated are 251 times more contagious than unvaccinated.

[quote] I agree. Go to Germany which is beautiful at Christmas time. Just watch out for suicide bombers in the Xmas markets

Oh shit, getting blown up while drinking hot chocolate. I’ll pass.

[r23] this person is a TROLL and is spreading HARMFUL misinformation. FUCK YOU! Your actions are KILLING PEOPLE, including CHILDREN.

The paper CLEARLY states something completely different. This paper's focus is on DELTA compared to other older strains. Delta is Dangerous. We need all Public Health Measures, including vaccinations. We need to cut down on spread, thus mutations. We also need to ensure that vaccines development keeps up (is updated) based on the new variants. Also, we have to get the covid booster shots into arms.

Get Vaccinated NOW.

Wear your mask and Social Distance.

The Dutch founded Apartheid in South Africa. Racist bunch of people they are.

The poster in R23 has been in other threads here using his misleading statistics to give the impression that if you're vaccinated you have a higher risk of dying from Covid than if you are not.

He's our very own Angel of Death.

R23, why do you love COVID so much?

Reschedule your trip, OP. Most airlines will waive the change fee now.

Just to clarify-I fell in love with the Netherlands when I started going there in 2016. Amsterdam’s great but the ever-increasing tourism was getting to be too much. So I started enjoying staying in cities like Haarlem (a mini Amsterdam, Utrecht and Leiden.

I do also love Germany (not just Berlin) and will absolutely keep that as an option. I love their Christmas markets (been to one in Cologne and one in Berlin) but they’re too damned crowded for my comfort.

I’ve worked like a dog this past year to pay for a nice vacation mid December to mid January. I’ve had Covid and am now fully vaccinated. I’ve always been aware of risks and I always wear masks indoors in public spaces. I’ll certainly respect whatever protocols will be in place. I’m well aware Covid is NOT over but I do feel I deserve to spend my money in places I feel happy to be in. I know…MARY!…but still.

just fly to Germany or Belgium and take a train to Amsterdam.

Each country in the EU is handling the recommendations differently. Most other EU countries are still open; you have to do a PCR test 3 days prior.

Most Americans at highest infection risk, in areas of highest infection, don't travel outside the US. Seems to me Americans who travel internationally are no higher an infection risk than Europeans traveling within the region.

The EU and Switzerland have introduced digital Covid certificates that will become mandatory. It's an excellent system to ward off fake Covid cards and to ease travel.

r33 = Pharma Nazi

R33 Not only that, but there have been a number of reports from Americans in Germany who have managed to turn their CDC cards into EU digital passes. (Take your card to a pharmacy which registers it into the system and gives you back a QR code which you scan into the digital pass app.)

That's a ridiculous practice if true. In Switzerland foreigners must be tested to get the digital certificate. A covid vax card is not sufficient.

I’m also planning a trip to Europe in October and then for Christmas.

As of now, you can get your CDC card converted into the digital health pass at several pharmacies in Paris. This will allow you to travel around Most of the EU pretty freely. It’s apparently illegal for them to convert, but they’re doing it out in the open and many have done it successfully. I plan to make that my first stop in Paris if my online application hasn’t come through yet.

Regarding Netherlands, the quarantine sucks. I believe you can reduce it to 5 days if you take an antigen test on day 2 and you have proof of vaccination or recovery, but it still sucks. I believe it is also based on where you’ve been for the last 10-14 days, so flying in from the US, it’s going to be unavoidable. I have heard of people flying into Paris or Berlin and training in to Amsterdam with no issue (and a couple of them just lying on their declaration saying they’ve been in a green country for the past two weeks). I would probably not do this myself, but it’s happening. The mandatory quarantine for all Americans is only about a week old, so I imagine they’re going to get stricter rather than more lenient.

If I were you, I’d see if I could get rebooked to Paris instead, apply online for the health pass or go to a pharmacy when you get there, and then either stay in Paris or try to train to Amsterdam if you really want to. If you show the health pass and your passport, I doubt you’ll have an issue.

Safe travels!

Which app r35

But for the OP we're talking December, which is light-years away in Covid restriction terms.

R38 Reports I've read say the QR code you get works on CovPass, CWA and Luca. Reports are also that not all pharmacies will do this: you'll probably have to search around.

It’s TousAntiCovid in France, r38. If you get the QR in on EU country, it’s good foe the rest of them.

Thank you so much for the information, very helpful

I wouldn't be caught dead in Amsterdam in December.

If you go, pack a big sack lunch. The food is unremarkable.

Thanks for the helpful info, R37.

Haha, R43. I know the Dutch cuisine well and it’s certainly not much to write home about. Great fries, though, and I know a terrific little Italian joint in Leidseplein.

IDK, OP. I go try to go to Europe every year for the holidays with London as a home base and then I'll bounce. I'm just not sure if there are going to be restrictions. Europe had their big surges in the fall and then during the holidays last year. I am thinking about it, but I'm not sure. It's so hard to predict.

Switzerland is having a rise in cases now.

Well, there's Macbeth at la Scala in December, the couture in January, and St. Moritz in February.

I was thinking of exploring Canada like Montreal or Quebec as an alternate to EU this year, but I don't think we are even allowed into Canada so that might be a no go. Worst case, maybe I'll explore Murica and whore around small towns where I know I'll be the hottest person.

You're abolutely crazy if you're planning to travel. The hospital systems in almost all Western countries are literally on their knees right now: it's not just Texas where you'll wait in an endless queue to be admitted. God knows what it will be like come winter. It's OK if you're rich, and can get bypass the system, but for anyone else you need to understand you're playing Russian Roulette.

Some morons went to mexico with covid. They got very sick and were denied hospital and medical care. They had to charter a private med vac to come back into the country for over $100,000. It is crazy to be travelling right now.

Netherlands > Germany without question. Germany is filled with postwar crap. Netherlands has canals, architecture, freedom, fun. I can’t wait to go. But will likely put it off to 2022 now. Ugh.

I am hoping there is a period of decreased tourism though. It was getting insane.

Berlin is gorgeous for Xmas and New Years is awesome but Amsterdam is amazing as well. Europe at Christmas is just amazing.

Things are so unpredictable with Covid now.

December is light years away, and the US continues to have the highest number of cases and deaths in the world.

We are in the midst of a GLOBAL pandemic. Hospitals in many places are on their knees as another poster above has stated.

But there continue to be the idiots who MUST travel. And Covid and its mutations....Delta.....Mu.....continue to develop and spread like wildfire.

Americans complaining that it's not easy for them to travel to Europe without acknowledging that visitors from Europe are banned from entering the US are hypocrites.

[quote] Americans complaining that it's not easy for them to travel to Europe without acknowledging that visitors from Europe are banned from entering the US are hypocrites.

Sadly true, R54.

There is a consolation though: you don’t want to come here now. We are a hot mess of a country atm.

Airlines - US and international - don't give a flying fuck whether or not you've been vaccinated. To get on the plane, you need a negative PCR test less than 72 hours old. You can get them all over the US and Europe. Cost in the US, approx $150. In Europe, approx. 70 Euro. That'll get you on a plane to/from the US/Europe. On domestic US flights, no one asks or cares about vaccinations or tests. Got a mask? Climb aboard.

[quote] Americans complaining that it's not easy for them to travel to Europe without acknowledging that visitors from Europe are banned from entering the US are hypocrites.

This is true, r54. In fairness, it’s easy to forget that there are people who want to come visit this god-forsaken country. Is the plan to keep our borders closed to tourists forever? Seems ridiculous.

I think there are ways to get around that? I mean, there are lots of European players in the us open in NYC. ( Tennis)

Thread has me missing the girl I fell for in Apeldoorn. We were young, fell out over something really petty and stupid (she didn’t tell me she had a man and a kid before we got close, I freaked), she left NL shortly after I did, and I have no idea where she is now. It’s unlikely I’ll ever find her or see her again, and though I’m not trying to track her down I still wonder all the time if she’s ok and she’s happy. Miss you, Tara...

It's not going away. We have to learn to live with it.

"We were young, fell out over something really petty and stupid (she didn’t tell me she had a man and a kid before we got close,"

That would be a deal breaker for just about anybody in any type of relationship.

Good.

R3 must be smoking crack or only seeing the crusty Dutch boys. I just got back from Europe. The boys from the Netherlands travels in packs of 4, at least in all the hostels I visited. It was funny, one group would leave then another arrived the next day. I was in 4 cities in youth party hostels so maybe that attracts the outgoing hot ones. Anyway, 50% were hot to crazy hot. And most of them were of course tall.

Maybe they are like the British abs age like a banana but from what I could see, those boys are sexy things in their mid to early 20s. I assume they don’t become pagers since they seem to have good bone structure and a fitter lifestyle.

R14 tell us the story about the bad edible. Did you wake up to some surprise anal the next morning? What could happen to make you avoid an entire country? Also, what the fuck did you do in that tiny country every year?

R33 this is r63 those things are easier to verify but no where verified the digital cards when I was with any guy form there. They just show them the app or a screen cap. I talk to an American that knew a German what was also selling fake digital screen caps since most places don’t have any device to verify the QR code. Of course they can check the name but like with my bad card, no one bothered to confirm.

They still have a better system for sure, but having been over there I can see that their people are as fed up with COViD as Americans and float the distancing rules. They also flood the central or eastern cities with lax OCiD restrictions see Vienna, Budapest, Prague, Krakow, everywhere in Croatia.

R48: Going to Montreal on Friday. If you're vaccinated, they need a negative test within 48 hours of entry. I have zero worry.

Planning a trip far in advance is a crapshoot right now. There's no "right to visit the Netherlands" or any other place. Deal with it and find an alternative.

So how fat in advance do you guys book? 2 months?

This why the variants spread around the world so quickly. If only people would stop flying! Look at this weekend’s numbers here in the US. Millions of people cross crossing the US to spread the plague. For what? Labor fucking day?

I wouldn’t book such a flight to a country with restrictions. Fly into Austria, Hungry or Czech. Then transfer to the Netherlands. I’ve only been in EU nations so it was easier but try to get into an easier nation then fly in. I went to 3 countries abs only had to show the airport ticket agent my vaccination card and passport. No customs between EU nations so no checking anything when I flew in was glorious.

R51 Germany is filled with post-war crap? Have you been to Rotterdam? Or anywhere in the Netherlands outside of Amsterdam's city center?

R53 how does an American kvetching about EU entry hurdles become a "hypocrite" in your eyes? We didn't set the US state department's policy, I don't recall the White House putting that to a referendum. It's ridiculous from a foreign relations standpoint, but the EU relies on the US for both military support and tourism dollars, so what are they going to do about our travel ban? Encourage Russia to annex them?

COVID is not going away. If you're vaccinated and masked there is no reason why you can't resume daily life, including air travel.

[quote] Now that pot is legal in a lot of US states, there's no reason to go and have an "Amster-DAM" good time.

Two words - Dutch Dick

Yeah, I won't be flying anywhere for awhile, thanks.

R67 ok I know it was a typo but ‘fat in advance’ got mah ribs herdin ta-DAY!

R70, I specifically said Americans complaining "without acknowledging that visitors from Europe are banned from entering the US", not Americans in general.

Is there a huge demand from Europeans to enter the US?

You aren't the worst offenders for unreliable statistics, but it's reasonably well known that they are less than clear.

The funniest one's come from Turkmenistan (zero) and Myanmar (151)

Put pure tourism aside. A lot of Europeans have family and business relations in the US. Not rare for Brits in particular to have a vacation place there, especially in Florida.

America's been largely closed to Europeans for long over a year now. So yes, the demand has built up.

My husband and I went to the Netherlands in mid-August. We had a great time there, were very careful to mask in crowded areas and indoors. We had to get a test before returning to the U.S. and even that went pretty smoothly, but with assistance from Dutch nationals (all the instructions were in Dutch language. )

I wouldn't count on a lot of policy change between September 6 and December 6.

Instead, I would make plans for another country. If you were set on visiting the Netherlands and plans did change late in the game, you could always fly in and out of the other country and still visit the Netherlands. If you, you visit the other country you choose.

Stay home!!!

Fuck off R49 and all who “liked” the post.

We’ve waited long enough and will take the necessary precautions. We deserve to move on armed with proper information.

I have a feeling you’re jealous and perhaps have no financial means to travel. Boo fucking hoo.

And R53 can fuck off, too.

You're vaccinated! You wear a mask! What's the risk to yourself or the Europeans?

To the extent there IS any negligible risk, it's essentially the same as the risk vaccinated mask-wearing Europeans present to other Europeans. Or that you might face staying in the U.S.

Bon voyage!

Thank you, R82.

You're abolutely crazy if you're planning to travel. The hospital systems in almost all Western countries are literally on their knees right now: it's not just Texas where you'll wait in an endless queue to be admitted.

Simply not true, R49. The Netherlands has 421 Covid patients in hospitals at last count this week. Spain which at the start of the year had 30,000, has 8800 and declining fast; France roughly the same; Italy had the same peak and is now down to 3000 hospitalized (figures are a few days or a week old.) Hospitals in Europe are not on their knees; they may be stressed by the length and former peaks and severity of the disease, but at present they are not wildly off where they were at the lowest point of infections in the June-September period of 2020 after weeks and months of severe restrictions on movement.

R84 things can change in weeks!

Why don’t you go to China? They had hardly any deaths and you don’t hear about lockdowns all over the place.

It’s so interesting to see the extremes in this thread: from “how dare you even think of traveling during a pandemic” to “just sneak in and do as you please-rules, schmules”

I say get vaxed, follow reasonable precautions, and be prepared to change your plans unexpectedly and possibly lose some money in the process, but if you’re comfortable traveling and your destination’s comfortable having you, go for it!

And secure health insurance that covers a Covid hospital stay. No insurance no admittance.

Oddly enough, R88, that's not the case in at least mist if Europe.

It is in Switzerland

So you reckon there will be more restrictions? esp during xmas? I'm planning a trip but I not sure if I should book it yet.

R90 here. On second thought I would guess for Covid as a matter of public health hospitals could not set loose an infected/contageous person.

Generally however the uninsured are not admitted to hospital without a large monetary deposit up front.

I don't have any medical problems but I'm definitely gonna get a booster shot before I travel if Europe doesn't go into any kind of lockdown.

[quote] This makes sense. USA is not doing anything to keep cases down

Another anti-Biden post. Go back to Moscow

I wouldn't book more than a couple weeks ahead, less if I think airfares will remain stable. Anyone who's been following this for well over a year now has seen how rules change in a couple of days, almost always adversely.

Travel is a great idea now, but you do have to be prepared for things to go wrong and extra expense.

Thanks, R87.

Go to Holland instead.

R64 - I took an edible muffin which I thought was nothing because I liked to smoke weed. I went to a gay bar by myself and started hallucinating while these guys were talking to me. I stumbled out and got gang raped. Just kidding - there were like shadows jumping out of the canals. I thought I was fine, went to be, woke up and was still tripping. I flew back to the US the following day STILL tripping. I had to tell me parents that I was quasi hallucinating a later and then had a panic attack, which landed me in the ER. My MD said that sometimes they put LSD in the muffins to double the impact or someone could have put something in my drink at the bar.

I recovered, but I do not do edibles anymore. I think Amsterdam being 20-somethings is the time to do A-dam right, as I was at the time. The Dutch are nice, but I don't find them excessively warm, but they are hot. I would totally go back, but I think I have had my fill of the Netherlands. I can get horse hung in Scotland or the UK.

Was it a Space Cake? They're potent.

It was a chocolate chip muffin in a sealed foiled wrapper. At the time I had experimented with molly, K, and LSD. This muffin should have been childs play. I didn't even do shrooms there, which are also legal from a smart shop. First I stumbled into one of those porn theaters where you can hook up and then ended up in this gay bar that felt more like a gay pub off the beaten path.

Just landed in Lisbon today, and one thing that immediately struck me: [bold]EVERY SINGLE DAMN PERSON[/bold] inside is wearing a mask. Except of course for....American tourists.

Masks are mandatory in Portugal, though I don't know the exact rules for where and when.

In Spain masks are not required outdoors (though some people wear them) except in crowded situations where keeping a reasonable distance from others is infeasible. Indoors they are required everywhere (unless eating or drinking.) Everyone complies, no fuss.

R100. I don't know how you survived a trans Atlantic flight while tripping. I would have lost my shit.

Yeah, the only edibles I use are gummies which clearly state contents on the packaging. THC-laced prepared foods are a crap shoot IMO. I

Do you recall the name of the gay bar you visited?

[quote] Fuck off [R49] and all who “liked” the post.

[quote]We’ve waited long enough and will take the necessary precautions. We [bold]deserve to move on[/[bold] armed with proper information.

[quote] I have a feeling you’re jealous and perhaps have no financial means to travel. Boo fucking hoo.

Am not the poster you are responding to, but this response, OP, comes across poorly.

You have the right to travel, but complaining about restrictions in a worldwide pandemic comes across as ignorant and insensitive.

There remains much unknown about the long-term effects of Covid. And we remain in the midst of a 4th wave with variants traveling - just as you wish to do - across countries.

[quote] And [R53] can fuck off, too

A real gem, here, aren’t you, OP?

are the bars and restaurants and stores closing earlier in the evening due to the pandemic?

R101, enjoy your trip!

Good luck and good health to all DLers who are traveling...

it would be nice to hear feedback from various countries and airports etc

[quote]Are the bars and restaurants and stores closing earlier in the evening due to the pandemic?

Bars and restaurants in The Netherlands currently close at midnight, most stores have regular opening hours

By the time December rolls around, you’ll be lucky if you can travel from one state to another.

R108, they are not gonna close nothing in the USA.

I think the US has dismissed this pandemic much too quickly, here in Europe we see every nuance in our own and other Countries.

Realistically it still isn't that safe to travel.

I think it was The Queens Head, R103. It was awhile ago, but had more of a British pub vibe than the other bars. Not sure 100%.

A gay bar called "The Queens Head"? Lol.

It's quite amazing, or not, that you entitled cunts are trading tips on how to evade travel restrictions during a pandemic. Isn't this how we all got into this situation? You are the type that probably slaps homeless people too.

Fuck back off to hiding underneath your bed, Mary @ r113. If you’re too scared to travel, then don’t.

We willen jullie hier niet, tering kuttoeristen. Krijg de kanker.

Well, there’s about 💯 countries I want to quarantine before entering the U.S.

I was in LAX a month ago (business trip), and noticed that they had a CV test and vax site there. I suppose that is how you get your pre-flight test and results when you land.

Are you all nuts? If there is a hint of Covid in the air in Europe, stay away!

[quote] Are you all nuts? If there is a hint of Covid in the air in Europe, stay away!

This is one of the more absurd things I’ve seen on DL. What would you have everyone do? Stay home indefinitely? COVID isn’t going away. We are going to need to learn to live with it.

Omg

Stop spreading COVID!!! Really, just stop for once in your entire life!

For OP and all those who seriously advocate travel during a developing pandemic, here is the experience of someone who HAS traveled in the last 2 weeks:

[quote] My dad, who luckily just retired, told me his 49 year old, no pre-existing conditions, avid runner and vaccinated mentee just died within 5 days from the Mu variant.

[quote]He wore masks and took the pandemic seriously but wanted to visit his newly born grandson. He flew to Florida and had a connecting flight somewhere from the Chicago airport. Tested positive once he returned home and three days later he organs started to fail. He passed on the 5th day. My dad is crushed and so is his family.

[quote] Vaccinated or not, be safe and stay vigilant.

STFU, R121. You’re definitely unhinged.

The Queen’s Head was a cozy gay pub off the King’s Road. It was “converted” to a straight pub and then shut down altogether a few years ago.

I think this is The Queen's Head in question (Amsterdam, not London) as I think t was the same poster who mentioned canals and Amsterdam.

Nobody but nobody among the hide-under-the-bed brigade has even tried to explain in a scientific manner how two weeks in Europe moving around masked and vaccinated is really any riskier than two weeks moving around masked and vaccinated in your U.S. home area. Just what is the risk?

Explain, don't rant.

R125, see R122.

R126 Where's the causation? In the same time period he could have gotten infected in his home area waiting in line at Walmart.

As for air travel imposing extra risk, there's now well over a year without any higher incidence among flight personnel.

People go on trips and sometimes get killed in auto accidents.

But people stay at home and sometimes get killed in auto accidents, too.

R127 Does your local Walmart have 10,000 ish customers wandering around when you shop?

R126 your stubbornness is reminiscent of Trump in his “I don’t take any responsibility” Covid conference.

Truth is Covid is rapidly mutating and we are waves behind the 8 ball. We do NOT have a firm grasp of the variants....Delta, Mu, Lambda, etc.

As recently as weeks ago, the CDC was informing the public that vaccination ceased spread. We now know that to not be the case. The US policy to Covid has been shambolic: most cases and deaths of any country in the world.

Bottom Line: we don’t have a full grasp on Covid. FULL STOP.

Any entitled moron that complains about travel restrictions because they “deserve” to flit about needs to come to a US hospital at the moment. There they can “work” the 12 hour shift completely encased in full PPE [and dripping in perspiration], put themselves at risk by intubating folks who are drowning in their Covid-eaten-lung-debris, and take every other night call.

US medical personnel aren’t whinging about being unable to travel to the Netherlands. They are too damn busy taking care of those who do.

R130 And your fear-filled post conveniently omits just what proportion of those drowning patients have been fully vaccinated.

Never let facts get in the way. Carry on.

R131 And if you really work in an emergency room you could no doubt tell us tale after tale of the horrors you've seem in the aftermath of auto accidents. So we all stop driving?

[quote] 130] And your fear-filled post conveniently omits just what proportion of those drowning patients have been fully vaccinated. Never let facts get in the way.

Respectfully disagree.

Come to where I work and you will see unvaccinated AND vaccinated. The proportions are definitely more unvaxed; but we’ve had seven of our VACCINATED staff in-house and one, HEALTHY 42yo died.

So cut the “fear bullshit”, R131. Until you live this stuff, don’t DARE come at me in your armchair-critic-holier-than-thou crap.

[quote] [R131] And if you really work in an emergency room you could no doubt tell us tale after tale of the horrors you've seem in the aftermath of auto accidents.

Indeed.

[quote] So we all stop driving?

Ludicrous analogy. Auto accidents are not Contagious.

yes the person died even though he was vaccinated, but what kind of vax did he get? the one from russia? china? We all know that vaccines are less effective as time goes by. I definitely plan to get a booster shot before I travel end of the year, I haven't seen my loved ones in 2 years, they are old and some have dementia, I'm gonna go and see them before they die. so this isn't a vacation to me.

I think it's great that we are exchanging information about travel/airports etc during this tough time. we're all here to help each other.

Also have you heard anything about getting a different booster shot? for example getting moderna for the 3rd dose if you got pfizer prior? or better to stick to the same brand?

Also, don't believe anything you read on public forums, I saw a report on CNBC yesterday that China has millions of fake accounts on social media and elsewhere on the internet to spread fake news and undermine USA. Don't believe anything unless you see a linked article report or whatever.

The Chinese are definitely on here.

R133 If anyone has a holier-than-thou attitude lecturing others on how they should behave, it's you.

Still waiting for you or others to use your scientific background to tell us how going about your business vaccinated and masked in the US is any different than doing the same in Europe.

Instead we get distractions, fear stories and bullying language. Let's hear some science instead.

R138 The biggest problem will be the sheer number of people that you will be in proximity to during the travel phase (Airports, Planes etc).

You may also find that the Country that you are visiting has higher prevalence of different strains.

If you are willing to accept the additional risk factors, Bon Voyage.

Also, be prepared for the worst-case scenario – that flight restrictions tighten while you are traveling or you get infected while you are away, and you have to stay in Europe longer than you intended. It's unlikely with the situation as it is today, but it's impossible to predict where the pandemic goes from here.

[quote] Come to where I work and you will see unvaccinated AND vaccinated. The proportions are definitely more unvaxed; but we’ve had seven of our VACCINATED staff in-house and one, HEALTHY 42yo died.

I don’t doubt you, and I appreciate your service r133 - but your experience isn’t the norm across the whole country. Pockets, sure. My county has seen COVId death rates in general decline steadily for the previous seven weeks. There was one last week. There is no shortage of space in the local hospitals, which are running at around 61% capacity as of last week. I’m vaccinated and follow the safety guidance of our county health department and the CDC. I’m going to travel, following the guidance of the country I’m visiting including frequent antigen tests. I don’t feel any shame in doing this nor any sense of dread-and I shouldn’t need to.

[quote] Also, be prepared for the worst-case scenario – that flight restrictions tighten while you are traveling or you get infected while you are away, and you have to stay in Europe longer than you intended. It's unlikely with the situation as it is today, but it's impossible to predict where the pandemic goes from here.

I honestly don’t think that sounds so horrible, but I wouldn’t want to catch it and risk spreading it. This is why I’ll get a test every 72 hours as recommended by the government of the country I’m visiting.

You definitely need to be pretty rich to travel at the moment.

Not rich but yes if things do go wrong you need to be able to absorb the costs.

As to Covid hospital care, some countries like the UK treat it as a matter of public health and provide free hospital care even to non-residents. Others, like Mexico, do not.

Just what we need, a bunch of fat covid infected American queens squealing and wheezing across Europe right now. What could make Christmas in Berlin more enjoyable?

Yes R124, I was referencing The Queen's Head in London although I have been to The Queen's Head in Chelsea. The other poster is right - the London Queens Head closed a few years ago.

There are too many Queens!

CNN: France has become the latest European country -- and the most significant tourism destination -- to remove the United States from its safe travel list, following EU recommendations in the wake of a US Covid spike.

Under France's rules, unvaccinated travelers will still be allowed in provided they have an essential reason for travel, however they'll need a negative Covid-19 test before travel and must quarantine for seven days on arrival.

Earlier this week, Spain changed its entry policy for arrivals from the US, requiring them to have a certificate proving double vaccination.

Italy last week began requiring all visitors, including those from the United States, to show proof of a PCR or antigen Covid test taken within 72 hours of travel, regardless of whether they are vaccinated.

Denmark and the Netherlands have also recently updated their restrictions, requiring proof of vaccination for US travelers.

Sweden, meanwhile, has banned all US arrivals regardless of vaccination status.

The Chinese do not need to be on here spreading false information. DL users can do that on their own, thank you very much.

From another thread:

[quote] Anyway. I have a minor inherited immune deficiency and my immunologist called yesterday and told me I should wear KN95 masks from now on, not surgical masks, because he's worried that the mu variant may be dangerous even to vaccinated people. That caught me by surprise and woke me up out of my complacency. I'm going to try to get a booster

Today's WSJ

Covid-19 Virus Variants Mu and Lambda Unlikely to Supplant Delta

Delta’s highly infectious nature positions it to outcompete new variants, scientists say.

The Delta variant of the Covid-19 virus appears well positioned to maintain its dominance over new variants such as Lambda and Mu.

No love for Nipah?

Well, it looks like there will be no Christmas magic to be had in Europe for Americans, yet AGAIN!

The shitty Europeans hate Americans whether they're nice people or not, so stay the fuck at home. Stop giving them your money.

[quote] Under France's rules, unvaccinated travelers will still be allowed in provided they have an essential reason for travel

Is looking for French dick "an essential reason"?

Are they placing their taller, stronger dykes at their border these days in order to defend themselves against us?!

[quote]The shitty Europeans hate Americans whether they're nice people or not, so stay the fuck at home. Stop giving them your money.

R153 is one who won't be missed by the rest of the world. Better to leave him to tick off his list of states visited on diner paper placemats.

I'd rather live in Europe right now than the US.

[quote] As to Covid hospital care, some countries like the UK treat it as a matter of public health and provide free hospital care even to non-residents.

No they don’t. They provide free outpatient care, but if you’re admitted, they bill you at 150% the NHS rate if you don’t have insurance…but it’s still way cheaper than American health care even with insurance.

R3 Yeah, look how ugly the Dutch are.

[quote] France has become the latest European country -- and the most significant tourism destination -- to remove the United States from its safe travel list, following EU recommendations in the wake of a US Covid spike. Under France's rules, unvaccinated travelers will still be allowed in provided they have an essential reason for travel, however they'll need a negative Covid-19 test before travel and must quarantine for seven days on arrival.

What’s new about this? The “essential travel” part? I’ve been following the restrictions in France because I’m supposed to be going there in a month, and since at least August 9, I think unvaxed anyone had to show a negative test and quarantine. I’m glad they’re still allowing the vaxed into the country without quarantine, at least for now. Hope it can stay that way.

[quote] I’m well aware Covid is NOT over but I do feel I deserve to spend my money in places I feel happy to be in.

So fucking entitled. It takes a lot to make my jaw drop on this site, but that did it.

What’s the rationale for the US to continue banning entrance for Europeans? If they’re vaccinated and submit a negative PCR test, they’re probably in better shape than your average American in some of the shithole States. Are Canadians still banned as well?

R162, yes, Canadians are still banned.

R158. You're wrong.

That's the general rule but there's a special rule for Covid:

"Overseas visitors to England, including anyone living in the UK without permission, will not be charged for . . . treatment for coronavirus."

I'm Canadian and just flew in and out of Boston. The land border is closed but flying in is no problem. You just need a negative test within 72 hours of the flight.

Why are people traveling to The Netherlands in the middle of a pandemic? You can watch boring white men at home.

The Netherlands is sexy in Winter. Very sexy.

Interesting, r164. Thanks for sharing that info. My bad.

Agree R167. Looking forward to a winter break in Amsterdam. Cozy bars, leather jackets, less crowds, better deals. Sitting in the window watching the city whiz by on foot, bike and tram.

^^ Sexy. And a hot 6'4" guy to cuddle.

[quote] What’s new about this? The “essential travel” part?

Yes. Vaccinated people can enter France with their proof of vaccination and sworn declaration as of now. Unvaccinated people can enter based on their country’s threat level. The US has apparently been moved from Green to Orange, but the official government website doesn’t yet reflect that change. Non-vaccinated travelers from green countries can enter with a negative test only; nonvaccinated travelers from orange countries can only enter for an essential reason and with a negative test; and nonvaccinated travelers from red countries can only enter with an essential reason, a test, and they must quarantine. The reports about which level the US has been moved to are conflicting. Some are saying orange with quarantine, but that would be red-and that would mean they moved the US down two levels, which seems odd.

The point though is if you’re going to travel, you’re going to need a vaccination. Get it.

Here's what the US Embassy says:

"On September 12 France’s entry rules for U.S. citizens will change. Fully vaccinated travelers coming from the United States (as well as minor children under 17 accompanied by a fully vaccinated parent or guardian) will still be able to enter France with proof of vaccination and a sworn statement they do not have symptoms of COVID-19 nor contact with someone with a confirmed case of COVID-19."

That is, the sworn statement for vaccinated US travelers does not include an "essential reason" clause.

I want to go to the new Soho House in Amsterdam. Prince Harry went to the launch a few years ago and it's supposed to be very nice.

R3 More ugly Dutch guys. Don't they make you want to vomit?

The Dutch are not excessively friendly but with monster cocks positively dripping with oodles of foreskin to breed your hole, they need not be.

I like your conversation, R175, you’ve a catchy turn of phrase.

I find the Dutch very friendly, but they have a Nordic sensibility This may be mistaken for coolness. The guys are incredibly hot. Who can dispute this?

They’re hot but not particularly sexual, which is weird. German men are extremely sexual.

Is the guy in R72’s video an extra from The Walking Dead?

Those traveling abroad, did you purchase travel insurance?

Travel insurance is one of those products -- like long-term care insurance -- that sounds great until you look at the fine print close as can be.

i have a question, normally, I transit thru Heathrow no problems, 2 hrs usually in between flights. Do I need to allow for more time between flights with covid?

Does it take extra long to check in where you are ?

I thought Heathrow was a nightmare of delays in the last several weeks. I'd check its Twitter. Or #Heathrow... see what the user experience is.

R182, last year when I was in Heathrow from NYC it actually took less time. That’s because instead of having to go through Passport Control where I’d wait to get interviewed by a slow, surly immigration official all I had to do was place my passport on a scanner and went straight through-because I’d already filled out a Covid questionnaire online.

[quote]Those traveling abroad, did you purchase travel insurance?

Lisbon for a week (just got back today), and no. I bought the ticket in June, and I knew this was a risk.

In interiors in Portugal every single fucking person had a mask on. It's oddly refreshing. Plus their infection numbers at this point are low. (I had to show proof of vaccination to eat food indoors at the mall food court, which was...interesting.)

Travel insurance will likely be a prudent choice the next few months if additional EU members ban Muricans. Perhaps they won't if Biden's people come to their senses and let EU citizens into the US. I mean shit, they're all vaccinated.

Oh, and for the sad British "[bold]AIRPLANE TRAVEL IS DEATH!!![/bold] troll:

I had to show a vaccination certificate 3x to get on a plane to Portugal.

United most vocally required masks stayed on throughout the flight, except for the moments you were "actively eating", which they defined in the safety notes.

I was in a mask from the time I entered Newark airport to the point I left the train station in Lisbon.

Everybody indoors in Portugal is masked. Everybody.

I had a take a COVID test to get back into the US.

It's quite possible to get on an airplane, fly to other places and not get COVID.

Only Americans, Japanese and a few other entitleds get to use the scanners at Heathrow. But use them if you can.

I heard you have to have travel insurance to go to Puerto Vallarta!

[quote] required masks stayed on throughout the flight, except for the moments you were "actively eating",

Of course, because everyone knows that Covid magically stays away when you are eating.

Damn, it's gonna be so hard to wear a mask for a 7 hour flight.

R186 - how did the mask mandates and travel in Lisbon effect going out and being social with the people who live there? When I travel, I love to travel alone, go to bars and pubs, and will end up meeting cool people to show me the city. Is everyone sticking to themselves or is the vibe still open in terms of chatting up strangers like pre-covid. I don't want to go to europe and be socially distanced because everyone is staying with their groups.

R190 Add on a couple of hours in the Airport prior to your flight and at least an hour after you land, plus the journey between the airport and your accommodation.

That 7 hours in a mask just turned into 11-12 hours..

I'm going to the the donut that gets glazed in Amsterdam this New Year. No mask, no condoms. Just Prep, Pfizer and a prayer.

There is a big dick belt that runs from Belgium, through Holland, across northern Germany to Northern Poland. TALL, lanky, hung men. The women are tall too. I don't know if they have strong big clits but I imagine they do.

You want hung meat? Get a dutch man mixed with black Caribbean. He'll be gorgeous too. YIKES!

There are some hot Indonesian dudes there, too.

The people in norther Europe are TALL. I'm 6'2 and I felt average. I am never aware of my height typically, but I was there. They are tall, with big, thick uncut cocks. Almost too big for a tight little hole like mine. It's great visually but there is just no way.

sorry uncut cocks are so ugly...no chance.

Thank you for sharing, R197. How are things at Shady Pines?

R196 "What do you expect me to do with that? Throw it over my shoulder and burp it?"

That's what the legal dope is for.

The center of Amsterdam is this large phallas looking thing where everyone parks their bikes. I think they call it like "the big penis" of something like that. The point is that they have big dicks and heavy, low hanging balls. There are also the hot eastern european boys hanging around.

Booked my flights as soon as I read that the US will finally allow UK and EU citizens back here starting in early November. I have a feeling more than a few Dutchies will be on those flights back to the Netherlands following pre-Christmas holiday visits to NYC so thought it might be wise. Flying in mid December, flying back early January, RT fare just under $1400. My airbnb in Haarlem is very reasonably priced (I’ve stayed there several times over the past five years) so it sort of balances things out. I’m hoping that with the US finally reciprocating re: freedom of travel that the five day quarantine policy might end up no longer being enforced. I’ll deal with it fine if I have to.

so I guess it's opening up everywhere...they don't care if the cases increase in Europe?

Why are cases going to increase? Or do you just enjoy mindless scare mongering?

weather is getting colder...more people will be indoors etc...

plus the kids are just starting school, cases have already gone up in many cities.

R203 But we're talking here about travel and its risks. Those factors even assuming they are correct would similarly affect Europeans and Americans staying at home. The question always comes back: what makes travel for vaccinated persons between the U.S. and Europe riskier than staying home? Or traveling within their own areas?

R207 If you happen to work in an occupation where you encounter tens of thousands of people on a daily basis such as an Airport/Railway station or Disney then your risk would remain the same.

If that don't then your risk will increase with every extra person you encounter.

More people in relatively enclosed places increases your risk of contracting many viruses including Covid.

I get a cold almost every time I fly..

And when traveling in Europe you're not going to your usual football games, church services, doctors' appointments, work etc. Silly to think there's a significant difference in contacts between the two places.

Anyway, where's the scientific evidence that people who deal with lots of people every day, like supermarket clerks, do have a significantly higher risk of contacting Covid?

[quote]The center of Amsterdam has this large phallas looking thing where everyone parks their bikes

The National Monument on Dam Square?

# R209 I think it's primarily logic based, the less people you come into contact with the lower your risk.

It's why people with even slightly compromised immune systems due to cancer therapy are advised to semi isolate.

We are all vulnerable to this virus though even after vaccination.

R221 If that supposition were true, we would by now have quite a lot of evidence showing those dealing with the public getting infected at a substantially higher rate than those who don't. Think airline crew, police, cab drivers etc. Guys restocking supermarket shelves. We don't have that.

So be vaccinated, wear your mask and go about your normal daily life whether at home or traveling abroad.

R212 We did have some evidence when the UK was using Test & Trace more diligently that people with customer facing roles were becoming infected on a more regular basis. The Government didn't like the results as quarantining contacts was causing problems for business and public services.

Test & Trace was quietly consigned to the garbage heap.

My buddy just booked his flight for Dec. He was monitoring the prices and it went up by 200 bucks just in a few weeks.

My question is. The flight is British Airways but operated by American Airlines, he has frequent flier miles with AA. Can he join BA's frequent flier miles club to claim the flight as well or no?

I think he should be able to. My flight going over is Delta but is being operated by KLM and in the past when that’s been the case I added to my flier miles with Delta.

OP - You convinced me. I'll be in Amsterdam over the holidays as well. I'll be there for a few days and have everything booked. I'm excited to go back.

Glad to hear it, R216.

I liked reading that tourism is still substantially down over there so maybe it won’t be anything like the clusterfuck it was in December 2019.

OK, I’ve been all over Google but can’t seem to get a direct answer as to how I can get on Coronacheck to scan my vaccination info and get a QR code to use at restaurants and…ahem…saunas. It only seems to accept Dutch/EU citizens’ info, even from abroad. At least I have three months to figure it out. Does anybody out there know how to do this, though? Thanks.

Don't know about Holland, but you can certainly do this in Germany now. Just go to a pharmacy with your CDC card and passport. They'll enter it into the system and give you a couple sheets of paper with QR codes, one for each shot you got.

Download the official English language CovPass app and scan the QR codes. It'll produce another QR code you show whenever needed. And it'll work throughout the EU.

[quote]We are all vulnerable to this virus though even after vaccination.

Indeed. Whatever you do in your travels, please manage to keep yourself out of a hospital. And bring N95s with you (Most people in this study were fully vaccinated, but several transmissions probably occurred between two individuals both wearing surgical masks, and in one instance using full PPE, including N-95 mask, face shield, gown and gloves.):

Thanks, R219. I’m hoping to get it done ahead of my trip but maybe that’s not possible.

If you're going to France you can do it beforehand online now but it's more bureaucratic and cumbersome than just rolling up to a pharmacy in neighboring Germany.

But who really knows the situation in December now.

OP - I am the one also go to Europe and Amsterdam over the holidays. It looks like the European Vax Pass is not yet available to anyone outside the EU, but it looks like you can bring your card with you. It might be ready before the holidays. They said not to early on, but I might just say fuck it and get it laminated. I feel like we'll have to show it a lot.

I have been seeing a lot of protests in Amsterdam so hopefully it won't be too crazy there. I am flying into Barcelona first, so if it's not good, I can always divert to another country.

Yeah, R222, I think maybe it’s best to just wait until a week or so before I go over there.

Thanks very much, R223.

I'm doing Barcelona, then flying to Amsterdam, then Berlin, and capping off NYE in London then back to Barcelona to fly out. My main flight from the US is booked and is non refundable, but everything else can be reconfigured. The flights between countries are cheap, so if I lose them, I'll be bummed, but it's not the end of the world. I can cancel hotels up to 48 hours. I was slightly nervous booking this type of trip, but it's been 2 years so I am hoping it all works out. If one of the countries is having issues, I might divert to Ireland instead. Easy Jet flights are like $50 but with the add ons more like 100. I love their budget airlines. I've flown them all and I can't up with it for an hour or 2.

PS - I have been tracking flights from the US to EU and Barcelona is the cheapest option for biz class. Cheaper than flying into London for the dates I want. I put Amsterdam as the second stop so I can be there for Xmas but also have weed for the rest of my trip.

There's an overriding reason to try pretty hard to get the European digital pass. If all you have is the CDC card, then losing or damaging it could really upend your trip.

But once you've got the pass you're safe. Even if you also lose your phone you can easily regenerate the pass with the original QR codes you have of course uploaded to a safe place.

Haha, R223, thanks for the itinerary. I’m strict with myself re weed, only get a bit and smoke it with a friend by a canal and that’s it.

I might bump into you in Amsterdam. I’m flying over there Dec 16th (my airbnb is in Haarlem, though) and plan to do a day trip to Cologne to their Angel Christmas Market which is fantastic (I went in Dec 2019). Then stay in Haarlem/Amsterdam until the 27th and off to Berlin for NYE (seeing once more the the Komische Oper’s extraordinary production of Fiddler on the Roof aka Anatevka) then back to Haarlem until I fly back on January 9th. I hope to go back to Leiden and Utrecht while also visiting Rotterdam (do I really need to see The Sound of Music in Dutch?), Delft and Maastricht for the first time.

Are you sure about London? I’d been going there pretty much every year for Christmas and New Year’s since 1986 but the supply shortage situation over there these days is a tad disturbing. Re your comment about the protests in Amsterdam I don’t think that will grow into a serious problem but who knows. The politie there seem to be getting too aggressive with them.

R227 It's not even that complicated, you just log back into the account where the pass is stored from your replacement phone or a tablet if you have one. They are held on cloud servers

My ex BIL died. I heard he was on a plane, an international flight, and they came on board before takeoff & took him off saying he tested positive for covid. He went home to quarantine & somehow died. What I don’t understand is why he was on an international flight. He sure as hell never went on vacation when he was married to my sister.

R230 Seems like he 'somehow died' because he didn't seek treatment (which to be fair might not have saved him).

Obviously as he was already on the aircraft everyone else was also exposed, be interesting to see if any people were monitored and traced afterward?

R229 At least in Germany there is no "account to log into to retrieve your certificates." (The situation may be different elsewhere.)

To quote the official CovPass FAQ:

Is a central vaccination register planned?

No, a central register is not planned. Your certificates can be stored on your smartphone on a voluntary basis. Anyone can decide for themselves whether and when they delete this data.

Where is my data stored?

When the EU Digital COVID Certificates are created, your data is collected once by the issuing body (vaccination centre, doctor’s practice, pharmacy) and transmitted to the RKI for signing. The data is then deleted immediately. When you add the EU Digital COVID Certificate to the app, your personal data is only managed locally on your smartphone.

R232 In the UK they are stored with all of your patient info on the app, it even gives batch numbers

I thought that Germany being even more pedantic that we are would have a better system.

Privacy is a big issue in Germany. They could of course store the information but purposely don't. That's why there's the "immediately deleted" assurance.

A stanksleeve country doesn't want us. Boo-hoo.

I'm staying near the Singel Canal on the Spuistraat. I will definitely be going to the coffee shops and saunas. Any DLers - if you bump into a gorgeous, barely legal, hardly looking a day over 25 year old from CA, know it is me. We can use a bat signal so we know it's each other. It would actually be pretty fun to bump into someone cool from DL on vacation. We'll see if we find one another. I'm there from the 25-28th.

I'm sure about London. It's like my second home. I got my degree at a uni in London. I know the city inside and out. I have a good place to stay. Berlin is the only place I am iffy on. I might ditch Berlin for Ireland, but not sure yet. I've been to Dublin over the holidays in the past and found it to be totally depressing but would like to give it another chance.

OK, R223. Will use a bat signal in the lounge area of NZ Sauna on the 26th (around 10 pm) although it’s likely you’ll be otherwise engaged!

Just went on my flight info and found out as of Oct 1 quarantine will not be required in the Netherlands for vaccinated tourists. Woo hoo. I hope it holds over the next few months.

Is the Bull Dog still a thing? I have been since I was in my early 20's. It was one of my favorite coffee shops. I loved getting stoned and going down to the basement to watch movies.

That’s like asking if McDonald’s is still a thing, r239. Shittiest weed in town.

What's the best, poshest coffee shop to hang out in now with the finest weed?

Boerejongens R241

Wow, the looks amazing, R242. Thank you! I am definitely going!

Now a proper adult, this trip is going to be so much nicer than in my 20's when I stayed in bad hotels and apparently smoked bad weed.

I go to a place to but weed called Stone’s. Yeah, I know. I like it because it’s sort of in a more secluded area. It’s run by Brits.

England to abandon plans for "vaccine passport," health secretary says

From CNN's Jake Kwon

Authorities in England have dropped a controversial plan to introduce "vaccine passports" for Covid-19, UK Health Secretary Sajid Javid told the BBC in a televised interview on Sunday.

"We've looked at it properly and, whilst we should keep it in reserve as a potential option, I'm pleased to say that we will not be going ahead with plans for vaccine passports,” Javid told the presenter Nick Robinson.

The earlier proposed plan would have required guests at nightlife venues or crowded events to present a proof of vaccination, or a negative Covid test, or finishing self-isolation after a positive test.

Javid said he "never liked the idea of saying to people you must show your papers" to "do what is just an everyday activity."

Javid said the passport was not needed because of the country’s high vaccine uptake, testing, surveillance, and new treatments.

“We’ve been very successful with our vaccination rate so far,” he added.

^ That's such a joke. The UK is about 66% fully vaccinated. There's at least a dozen countries doing better.

Every time there's failure or half heartedness around dealing with this, you don't have to look far to find a conservative.

A lot of European cities like Amsterdam, London and Paris have completely lost their charm. It’s all yuppies, moneyed boomers and tourists now.

Israel will require visitors to get a booster shot (or two doses within the last six months) to enter bars, restaurants, tourist attractions and other public spaces.

We'll see if other countries follow suit.

As in most things related to safety, you have to give Israel credit for not fucking around. Politicians there do seem to have a kind of fearlessness. I'm sure they are as odious as anywhere, yet culturally you wonder if Israelis understand threat and the need to deal with.

Israel is hard core about everything. They have to be. Just going into the mall is like going through a TSA. Going through their TSA is like getting a shake down, which isn't so bad because the guys are so hot.

Decent article published yesterday-

Got all excited when I saw the CoronaCheck app was updated for international travelers. But then it still requires a DigiD which can only be obtained by EU/Schengen residents with a BSN (our version of a Social Security #).

Where do you all live, those of you who are so desperate to smoke weed that you travel to Amsterdam to get it?

I just got back from a trip to CA to visit family (I am from there). I bought 3 large gummy vitamin bottles and filled them with wonderful CA cannabis gummies and flew back without a problem.

Just decided to go in mid-November to see a very sick relative who is likely to die soon. Am I correct that the latest for US is: proof of vaccination AND negative test taken within 2 days before departure? But now no quarantine if vaccinated from the US?

Annoying how hard it is to decipher the latest by country. I’m flying to/from London because business class fares are bizarrely cheap. Then Eurostar to/from Amsterdam. So in London I need to get a test for the UK within 2 days of arrival - which will hopefully serve for my pre-entry NL test as well.

Yes, R254, so far you just need to show proof of vaccination and a negative test. No quarantine. I still advise you to go on the US Embassy in the Netherlands website for updates. Your airline should also include a check list.

R253, I’m not big on weed although I do partake. I just love the beauty of the cities and its people, who are in general quite lovely and not cunts.

[quote] and flew back without a problem.

I surprised. They usually have those drug sniffing dogs at airports.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

DL holiday travel drinks meet up in Amsterdam?

I’m game.

R223, I’m assuming you’re starting to have second thoughts about London? Because the UK in general and England in particular is really shaping up to be a shitshow Covid-wise. This Delta Plus variant is no joke. I have a friend there who was double vaxxed, was a week from getting a booster but tested positive last week and is now so ill he can’t get out of bed.

Yes, OP. I'm flying into Barcelona from the states and London was my last stop before heading back to Spain. I have a cheap easy jet flight pre paid and I can cancel my hotel if I need to. I have friends there to keep me posted on the situation, so we'll see. I might divert to Switzerland or spend a few days in Gran Canaria after the new year. I am hoping London doesn't get shut down. It's a special city to me. I'm not worried about Covid, but more worried that they will go into a lockdown or require quarantine again.

I’m fairly certain there will end up being some variant (pardon my pun) of lockdown over there during the holidays. London used to be my special city, too, but not anymore. Too many selfish cunts. I now far prefer Amsterdam and Berlin.

I'd give Berlin a wide berth. To be honest, I'd stay home until spring of next year. There isn't a handle on this thing yet.

it's too late now, I've already booked my ticket. I will try to be as safe as possible. Good luck to fellow DLers who are traveling for the holidays.

Me, too, R263. No way I’m not spending New Years Eve in my friend’s lovely flat in Prenzlauer Berg.

I love P-Berg! Such great flee markets and restaurants. I hope to travel to Europe late next year, sans CV protocols. Think it’ll happen?

LOL - flee markets.

I’m reconsidering my Amsterdam via London trip. First issue is getting a booster now - based on heart issues. Second is change in access rules. Third is lockdown there. It really seems like it will never be over.

But also a clear message that everyone should be getting boosters 6 months after first jab. US needs to get going now based on the UK example. Yesterday US widened it to all adults with issues or in healthcare settings. Really needs to be every adult within a week or two - we can avoid UK fate by acting fast now as we were probably about 2-3 months behind them.

R268, I have a friend who walked into a CVS in NY and was given a booster with no questions asked except when he’d received his second dose. He’s 35 and has no underlying health conditions. I think the floodgates are now open.

R269, did he have to provide ID or anything?

R270, yes. His state ID and his vax card.

[quote] it's too late now, I've already booked my ticket. I will try to be as safe as possible. Good luck to fellow DLers who are traveling for the holidays.

Same - it will be an adventure and I'm prepared for a lot of hassles. I'd rather do that than spend another holiday alone at home.

[quote] Under France's rules, unvaccinated travelers will still be allowed in provided they have an essential reason for travel. Is looking for French dick "an essential reason"?

Always

R268, 3rd lockdown? where?

Further lockdowns are highly unlikely, especially in the Netherlands and Germany where there have been more than one already. Things like mask mandates are what will be reinstated.

Netherlands will be reinstating mask mandates. It will be made official at the PM/Health Minister’s press conference tomorrow night.

Fuck!!!! I am still going to Amsterdam, but so much for sitting in a coffee shop smoking a doob. Can you dine in with masks? I'll look it up. If anyone going to Amsterdam can all post updates with links, that would be great. I'll do the same.

^ When this thread was posted, many posited that traveling in the Covid era involved risks. OP was adamant that they travel, regardless.

Doesn’t sound like fun now....at all.

What's the big deal? Stay at home with an Afghan on your lap drinking hot chocolate if you like while the rest of live. (But at least have the courtesy to offer him a cup of chocolate, too.)

I can certainly live with wearing a mask everywhere indoors in public spaces. I do it all the time here in NYC, anyway. No big deal. At least I won’t have to wear one in the sauna.

I’m going. I’m doing this. I was fine in Edinburgh/London last August and I’ll be fine this December/January.

The Netherlands will impose new coronavirus restrictions this week in a bid to curb a recent surge in infections, health minister Hugo de Jonge said on Monday.

De Jonge did not give details of the new measures, which he said would be decided on Tuesday. Broadcaster NOS said the government was likely to require face masks in many public places and broaden the use of a "corona pass" showing proof of a COVID-19 vaccination or recent negative coronavirus test.

Coronavirus infections in the Netherlands have been rising for a month, and reached their highest level since July in the past week. Cases on Monday were 45% higher than a week ago at 7,700. More than 1,200 COVID-19 patients were in hospital, the most in five months.

This is a veiled comment that the Dutch are tired of Americans coming there and using their drugs.

Dutch to Americans: Just Say No

I’m up for that-the less tourists the better. And I’m all for the biggest red light district (De Wallen) being moved out of the city center. Seeing families with young kids walking around like it was Disneyland gave me the creeps.

Getting my booster shot tomorrow. All Americans are able to get theirs now which I don’t think was made in a public announcement.

Got my flu shot, shingles shots and now my booster shot. Will try to get pneumonia shot before I leave the middle of next month.

[quote] And I’m all for the biggest red light district (De Wallen) being moved out of the city center. Seeing families with young kids walking around like it was Disneyland gave me the creeps.

Me too. It gave me the creeps without seeing families and young kids. I favour legalized prostitution because it is common sense for a lot of sensible reasons. But coming face to face with it was depressing.

I’m certainly all for legalized prostitution as long as it’s regulated. This current governmental administration in Amsterdam really does seem to be determined to curb the over tourism which has been going completely out of conttrol in their city. Removing the main RLD and putting it further away from the city center is one smart way of doing that, along with strict measures on who can frequent the “coffee houses.”

I am an Anglophile at heart, but when it comes to Amsterdam, I blame the Brits.

Haha, yeah, I forgot to specifically mention the Brits, R286. Too many of them just behave like absolute pigs, yelling and vomiting all up and down Damrak and Leidseplein-basically anywhere near the city center. I’ve seen teenage/young adult Brits hassling the window ladies. I met a local who told me that he wished he could get the fuck out of Amsterdam whenever the “lager louts” were in town for a big football match. He said they’re the fucking worst. And they are.

[quote]Getting my booster shot tomorrow. All Americans are able to get theirs now which I don’t think was made in a public announcement.

It wasn't publicly announced because it's not true. Booster shots are only available to Americans who meet specific criteria. Of course, you can lie and get one anyway.

Nope, R288. I was told at my local CVS that anybody can get a booster shot now if it’s been over six months since their last dose. And when I went online to schedule my appointment all it asked was my birthdate and when I received my last dose. Didn’t ask me about underlying medical conditions or anything like that.

Here are the new Dutch measures:

From November 6, a valid Coronavirus Pass will be required on cafe terraces and in museums (it was already mandatory for indoor restaurants & bars). Face masks will also be compulsory again in all public buildings and shops, as well as in railway stations and airports. Masks will not be required in places where Coronavirus Passes are needed.

Been there once many years ago, no interest in returning

[quote]I was told at my local CVS that anybody can get a booster shot now if it’s been over six months since their last dose.

That's because your local CVS wants to maximize its reimbursements. The CVS website makes it clear that age, health and job guidelines are still in effect.

OP, rich people's problems.

Well, R292, that’s me told. Whatever. I’m glad I’m getting one. I’m over 60 (61) so was due to get one offered soon, anyway.

R293, huh? I’m definitely not rich. Nowhere near. I save up to get to travel a bit. I’m collecting a decent pension which helps.

This sucks. Crazy - first UK, now Netherlands with rising rates. Seems clear vaccines are needed every 6 months. Really makes travel unattractive. Even the mask thing in NYC is wearing thin. I definitely am less motivated to go out now. Probably won’t bother making an expensive trip just to get the travel bug out of my system. Learning to just accept stating home. Thank God I’m older - would suck to be 25 right now.

R295 If you were 25 you'd have a job and be building a career and not running off to Amsterdam in December.

Be glad you're well past that.

No it doesn't suck to be 25 yrs old. The kids I see today don't give a shit, they are partying as usual, going to clubs, doing drugs etc.

Based on the article, you don't need a mask in places that require vaccine passports, which would include nightlife I am sure. I am excited to go, buy a few joints, and just walk around. Get some fries in a cone. I am really excited about those.

R298 They're fried in lard, aren't they?

I don't know, R299, but they are amazing.

Found out about this in the reviews section for NZ Sauna, of all places. I hope I can scan my vaccination info here onto it.

Just don't let your greasy fingers from those fries smear that CDC card.

Ok. just to confirm, I can show my CDC vaccination card when going to restaurants and bars...they will accept that? In EU?

A travel tip. Get one of those plastic holders for your CDC card on Amazon etc before you leave. You need to protect the card and you're not going to find the holders in Europe of course.

Just walking around NYC, so far, I've found 2 CDC vaccination cards.

I don’t think so, R303. I think you have to get a QR code from their own app-CoronaCheck. I think the scanner will get your info on it. I haven’t tried it yet.

[quote] Well, [R292], that’s me told. Whatever. I’m glad I’m getting one. I’m over 60 (61) so was due to get one offered soon, anyway.

OP=Flippant Ignoramus

Fuck off, R307.

[quote] Am not the poster you are responding to, but this response, OP, comes across poorly.

[quote] You have the right to travel, but complaining about restrictions in a worldwide pandemic comes across as ignorant and insensitive.

[quote] A real gem, here, aren’t you, OP?

^You called it halfway through the thread, R104. And appears many agree with you.

[quote]I think you have to get a QR code from their own app-CoronaCheck. I think the scanner will get your info on it. I haven’t tried it yet.

You should probably look into it. I read somewhere visitors from outside the EU must take a Dutch COVID test and upload this proof in the CoronaCheck app.

Who are these “many,” R304? What a Trumpian sort of remark. Just like his “I’m hearing a lot of people say…” Do you have tangible proof? 4 posters “agreeing” with a post? Come on. Fuck off and don’t continue reading the contents of this thread if you don’t like it, then.

This moralizing by a few of you as to whether or not I should go to Europe in the first place is deeply tiresome. I just had my booster shot so I highly doubt I’ll be the Covidian equivalent of Typhoid MARY! Haha.

It’s been my life’s dream to stick my finger in a dike and now it looks like it’s never going to happen!

I have every confidence you'd know deeply tiresome, OP.

R312, apparently your dream could come true in Northampton, Mass and I bet you've never been!

Stay tuned, OP:

Reuters: A group of hospitals in the southern Dutch province of Limburg on Tuesday called for the government to take new measures to stem rising COVID-19 cases, saying they have no space or staff to handle more coronavirus patients.

Coronavirus infections in the Netherlands, as in other parts of Europe, are approaching all-time highs despite adult vaccination levels around 85%.

Prime Minister Mark Rutte's government is due to announce whether it will take new measures at a news conference scheduled for Friday.

[quote]Ok. just to confirm, I can show my CDC vaccination card when going to restaurants and bars...they will accept that? In EU?

For Portugal in September I showed my CDC card to get in public spaces. Don't know if Holland is more restrictive with non-EU IDs.

For those in the EU who would know...are the soaring infection rates coming from unvaccinated people? (I know they are in Germany, curious if the same problem applies to Holland)

That’s what I’m reading, R317.

So the Netherlands and Luxembourg have now been placed by the CDC in the Level 4/Extremely High Risk category. They are urging Americans not to travel there and only if vaccinated. Fine with me.

There’s Twitter chatter that there could be another Christmas lockdown but I’m not buying it. I can see mask mandates being reinforced but that’s it. One thing I’m certainly doing is buying travel health insurance.

How fateful - Netherlands, our topic for weeks, is the first place to go into a new Covid spiral. Not looking good right now for the early December trip. Damn, this really could be the nail in the coffin for the Amsterdam trip. Is it ever going to end?

R319, Europe in general is going into a new Covid spiral. Cases are going up in Germany and several other countries.

Yes, I’m concerned about going there next month. However there’s a part of me that’s interested in being somewhere else in Covid times and if this new spiral discourages tourists from descending on Amsterdam during the holidays I won’t be unhappy about that. I’ve watched videos of the city during the initial months of the pandemic and was jealous of those living there who had the streets to themselves for a change. Anyway it will be challenging but still, I think, OK. Good to see my booster officially included on my NY government’s Excelsior Plus pass.

I'm going OP. The tickets are bought and paid, I'm vaccinated, am used to wearing a mask indoors, and I'll just take it as it comes. I'm actually thinking of cancelling my flight from Amsterdam to Berlin and take the train instead. It's a 6 hour ride, but I could take a little weed with me and see some of the country. With the hassle of airport, then dealing with easy jet for 90 min, I think the train will be more fun. I'm willing to eat the cost. I think the train is 75e for first class.

Also, I was reading this morning that the majority of the spikes are coming from eastern europe and the non-vaccinated.

[quote]Also, I was reading this morning that the majority of the spikes are coming from eastern europe

Eastern Europe is an unmitigated disaster, Germany and the Netherlands are headed that way.

Well, there is always Sweden then. I've not been. The world is my playground!

Germany recorded more cases yesterday than any other day throughout the pandemic. Hospitals are anticipating postponing non-elective surgeries and other procedures. (Don’t get sick or have an accident while you’re there.)

For that matter, Vermont hit a single day high last week. It's surging again everywhere, people are just in denial, though at this point the thing to do is to keep an eye on hositalizations and who is being hospitalized - the vaccinated or the fools. It still holds that people with breakthroughs have reasonably mild experiences.

Still, if you're determined to go, make sure you have good private insurance for health care overseas that covers COVID and the financial ability to stay on until an infection passes, so you are looking at about two weeks. You're not getting on a U.S. bound flight without a negative COVID test.

[quote]Still, if you're determined to go, make sure you have good private insurance for health care overseas that covers COVID and the financial ability to stay on until an infection passes, so you are looking at about two weeks.

Yes, other than getting a booster before travel, I think that's the best advice -- be prepared to stay longer than you intend to, if worse comes to worse, and how you're going to occupy yourself trapped in a hotel room for two weeks.

Do you mean quarantine, R327?

R321, I was always planning on taking a train from Amsterdam to Berlin. It’s not too long a trip. The only issue is that, for all of Germany’s trumpeted “efficiency,” their inter-city train system leaves a lot to be desired at times. I’ve spent hours waiting for my train to arrive. I gather it’s because passenger and freight trains both share the same tracks. Anyway, I far prefer it. I did share a first class compartment with a handsome businessman and we ended up hooking up a few times in Berlin.

Yes, R328.

Why, R330? I’m fully vaccinated and had my booster last week.

Bars closing earlier will mean less tourists, especially from the UK. Good.

Sounds like an increasingly good time.

Still can’t find out how to get my vaccination info into CoronaCheck. The websites I go on don’t have any clear answers.

They are working on making the Amsterdam-Berlin train faster. The main issue I think is the connections required (the one I took anyway) and all the intermediate stops. Apparently they are going to develop a route that only makes 2-3 stops between the German border and Berlin. I remember having to transfer in Dusseldorf (or Koln?) and waiting outside station surrounded by hardcore heroin addicts for 2 hours.

It seems like such an an obvious route for high speed trains - like Amsterdam/Paris which is great. Not sure why it hasn’t been developed. I hate flying between Euro cities - especially from Amsterdam as I like to take some pot with me.

[quote]Why, [R330]? I’m fully vaccinated and had my booster last week.

I'm talking if you happen to test positive in advance of your return flight -- which is possible, regardless of vaccination status. You'd likely have no symptoms but you couldn't get on a plane and would have to quarantine for 10 days in whatever country you're in. Odds are against it, but best to prepare for every eventuality. Maybe the health insurance you purchased will cover the cost of 10 extra days in your destination.

Ah, OK, R336. Thanks.

Proper COVID inclusive health insurance will run $200 - $400 for a few weeks of travel. In circumstances like these credit card related health insurance is useless... they deny coverage if there is a do not travel designation from the federal government.

[quote]Still can’t find out how to get my vaccination info into CoronaCheck

I think you need a 'DigiD' account (online ID) to be able to get a CoronoCheck QRcode. As far as I know it's not possible for US Citizens to upload their vaccination status in the app. If you're visiting Dutch friends maybe you can ask them?

The Dutch are ugly, stupid, and incredibly dull people. Worthless. The only gems were Vincent Van Gogh and maybe a few Dutch painters and thinkers.

I've been to Amsterdam. Boring, depressing and soulless place.

Yes, it's definitely not Vegas or even Denver.

R340 wins today's irony prize.

R340 is een teringkut. Hij kan de kanker krijgen.

R340 must have been rejected by a Dutch national. so bitter!

R339, yes, I know about the DigiD. I just don’t think it’s available to us third country travellers yet. I’ll ask my airbnb hosts (who I’m very friendly with), thanks.

Who gives a fuck. The entire country is interesting for about 3 days

What's going on? Are they undervaccinated?

Sorry... read the NYT story... only 67% fully vaccinated and some regions far below that.

A lot of the German Christmas markets will have to be cancelled for another year. That ain’t good.

OP, at this point, what do you really hope to enjoy?

I feel like if you have to quarantine for two weeks then they should reduce or discount the price significantly or better yet not include it all in the package. I mean it makes sense if you want to keep tourism alive. Especially if these people are fully vaccinated with a booster jab in addition.

R321 there is much better weed to be had in the US these days than in the Netherlands, and in more varieties to boot. Barely any coffeeshops sell edibles nowadays because tourists go overboard and fall into canals, which is why shrooms were banned in 2007. Get a vape pen and you can bring weed anywhere...

seriously? they banned shrooms? damn, I did not know that. bummer

OP - the app isn't available yet for Americans, as you probably know. Following your lead, I downloaded it, but there isn't an option for those residing outside the EU.

Yes, R357, after going on it way too many times I realized it’s a dead end for us Americans. I sent an email to the help desk at Coronacheck-I’ll report back if I get a response from them.

I doubt this potential mini lockdown will be at Christmastime.

NY Times published studies showing vaccine effectiveness dropping below 75% after 4-5 months. Possibly even lower. Seems clear now that boosters are required for everybody - the US is a little delayed in its next wave because we started later than some in Europe like UK. I would feel more confident once I have my booster - but I really think this is headed towards another series of winter lockdowns in Europe.

Germany will almost certainly be required to have another lockdown, although there’s apparently a lot of friction between Merkel and the incoming coalition government over it. Merkel wants it but the coalition doesn’t

Austria’s chancellor on Thursday stepped up threats of lockdown measures for unvaccinated people, as new coronavirus cases in the Alpine country are soaring. He said that a lockdown for the unvaccinated is “probably unavoidable” and that the unvaccinated face an “uncomfortable” winter and Christmas.

How can they enforce a lockdown for the unvaccinated?

^ Passports.

Financial Times:

The Austrian province of Upper Austria is planning a state-wide lockdown for unvaccinated people, under which they will be ordered them to stay at home, governor Thomas Stelzer announced on Thursday.

From Monday onwards, unvaccinated individuals will only be permitted to leave their houses once a day for “essential” reasons. Police will perform spot checks on people in public spaces to check vaccination status.

Public events across the province will also be cancelled entirely.

Interesting to note that there is a very significant anti-vax population in European countries too. It’s not an American thing apparently. I don’t get it but most are running 70% or so vaccinated. Crazies everywhere.

Germany’s capital Berlin will ban unvaccinated people from restaurants, bars, cinemas and other entertainment venues from Monday, as the country grapples with its highest surge in Covid-19 cases to date.

From next week those who are not fully vaccinated will be excluded from a number of entertainment sites in Berlin, the city’s Senate announced on Wednesday, as it expanded the so-called “2G” rules that bar people without two shots from entry.

Outdoor events with more than 2,000 visitors will also be off-limits to unvaccinated adults.

Good. I definitely believe that those who refuse to be vaccinated don’t have the right to participate in society enjoy the privileges of it.

It’s looking like it will be a three week partial lockdown in the Netherlands starting tomorrow, all bars and restaurants will have to shut at 7 pm. Cinemas and theaters can remain open, though. This will be made official at a press conference tonight. I had a feeling this would end the day before Sinterklaas Day.

Covid loves cold winter breezes. This will only get worse until next Spring.

OP is not going to the Netherlands.

NYT: The Netherlands’ government plans to introduce a three-week partial lockdown to quell a fourth wave of Covid infections amid a spike in case numbers.

It is the first recent lockdown affecting all people — whether vaccinated or not — in Western Europe, and it comes as the Netherlands registered 16,364 new cases on Thursday. That figure, a level not seen since early in the pandemic, was a 33 percent rise over the new cases registered a week earlier.

Starting on Saturday, restaurants, bars and cafes in the country will have to close at 7 p.m. Sporting events will be held without spectators. Residents will not be allowed to invite more than four guests into their homes. And social distancing rules will be reinstated, though stores that sell essentials will remain open.

I am in Canada and was intending to go to Vermont for a couple of days. Last night an epidemiologist said to me "I'm not saying don't but I am saying I'd rather you didn't." This was based on a discussion of the present % positivity and cases per 100,000 in the last seven days, which are in the 300s for a state with an overall population of less than 700K.

So I'm deferring. I don't think we're heading into lockdowns again here necessarily but I do think this winter all of us, vaccinated or not, need to hunker down as much as is practical. It's probably never going away but for one last stretch through one last winter we can surely make it a little harder for it to spread.

The Guardian: Germans should avoid large gatherings amid a record surge in coronavirus infections, the country’s health agency chief said on Friday, adding that he himself would be skipping next month’s New Year’s parties.

“It’s five minutes past midnight,” warned Lothar Wieler, the head of the Robert Koch Institute (RKI), as the nation braces for new restrictions to contain a ferocious fourth Covid wave.

The weekly infection rate has soared to an all-time high of 263.7 per 100,000 people, and intensive care beds are filling up rapidly.

R340 here. Sorry if I offended any of you Dutch. Je adore Vincent Van Gogh. I just had a bad time in Amsterdam. Like I ended up starving and homeless lowkey lmao. Stranded. The people were actually really nice. I regret not being absolutely blitzed while there. I for sure wasted that opportunity.

I was super depressed man. Seeing the poverty in some train station somewhere in France (I forget where), was like jarring. I think maybe they were gypsies...

Anyway, I still tried to have some fun while I was in Amsterdam, so... I missed the Van Gogh museum for some reason. Never made it...

Officially not going. Disappointed and frustrating - it honestly feels like it will never end. I’m getting booster next week - so I feel relatively safe myself. But with everything shutting down, I’m not going to waste the money going. Especially in. Winter when you need to be inside more. Maybe April. Sigh.

Sorry, R377, but I think it's the right decision, given the way things are going.

R377, are you the same poster who was planning on going to Amsterdam and then London but decided to go to Berlin, instead?

I’m still going. Sure, I’m following all these developments with concern. However I’m fully vaxxed and boostered, got the flu and shingles #1 shots and plan on getting the pneumonia shot before I leave. I’ll bring a shit ton of KN95 3D masks with me. I’m being responsible.

Not hot Berlin poster. I was planning on flying to London the training to Amsterdam. Both places are shitstorms now. It was also proving to be a hassle with multiple Covid tests, etc. Just not worth the hassle and cost with lockdowns happening.

What could go wrong?

Wow, Germany is only 70% vaccinated and in som areas less than 50%.

Hah, OK, R380. I get why you don’t feel it’s the right time yet.

I won’t be going to nightclubs. Or “coffee houses” where people are puffing smoke from joints all over the place. NZ Sauna is iffy but at least they seem to have strict regulations and will only admit vaccinated customers. I’d like to go to the theater once or twice-I know one theater I’d be going to (the DeLamar) is pretty good in terms of seating space. I’d like to go to see West Side Story with a Dutch audience (they only do subtitles over there, never dubbed) at the Tuschinski Theater, one of the most beautiful cinemas in the world. Seating there is spacious, too. And one of my few luxuries is that I always get a first class ticket for any inter city train. As for within Amsterdam I’ve been taking the Metro now more than trams because they’re never packed. There’s usually only about ten passengers per car. That might have changed. I’ll play it by ear.

I’m not in the Netherlands as a tourist. This would be my seventh trip there. I have an affinity for the people. They’re the best-direct but also friendly and respectful. No hidden agenda with them. I like my airbnb hosts in Haarlem a lot. I look forward to seeing them and going to an outdoor Christmas Eve Midnight Mass. There wasn’t one last year because they were in lockdown. I don’t want to miss out on that this year.

LOL.. if the packed flights don't super spread there will be the outbreak of violence in coach to make up for it.

Recently returned to the US from Europe. Protocols are all over the map for each country. At least in Belgium, the only accepted proof of vaccination is a digital card read by QR code app which opens to some website. My digital card from California wasn't compatible, and I was denied entry to bars and museums. Hard copy not accepted. As noted upthread, I think you can get a domestic PCR test that's valid for 72 hours and upload the result into a user friendly format. I saw other non Euros turned away as their digital vax cards weren't readable either. Also, get international roaming for your phone, code for test results are sent via SMS. Netherlands and Belgium.

Good info, thanks, R385. I’m on an international plan with AT&T so SMS texts shouldn’t be a problem.

I don’t get why they haven’t worked out how to allow visitors from “third countries” access to the QR code. Maybe they will by the middle of next month.

Prime Minister and Health Minister are now basically confirming what was posted upthread.

OP how are you getting around Amsterdam with the metro? Other than a few stops on the north-south line (CS, Vijzelgracht, De Pijp) there's nothing of interest to tourists/visitors, most stations only serve office parks and dreary post-WWII housing estates. If you were really a die-hard Dutch enthusiast you'd rent a bike!

[quote]I don’t get why they haven’t worked out how to allow visitors from “third countries” access to the QR code.

Why didn't the U.S. open the borders to internationals until last week?

They have priorities that maybe don't include your travel plans? Honestly, I know you want to go but you sound so entitled.

R387, yeah, I’m aware the Metro is pretty limited. I can ride a bike but only ride one in Haarlem, I’d be too intimidated in Amsterdam. I walk a lot, anyway. I know my way around there now.

I do think the Metro’s good for getting to Albert Cuyp Market from Amsterdam Centraal, though!

[quote] Honestly, I know you want to go but you sound so entitled.

Loads of posters have noted OP’s arrogance. You’re certainly not alone, R388.

OP,I am the poster who is going to Barcelona, Amsterdam, London and Berlin. I am still going. My ticket is business class non refundable - I got a killer deal so I am going unless there is a travel ban and my flight is in/out of Spain. I'm vaxxed, I lived in SoCal which is constantly surging/not surging so I am used to wearing a mask for everything including the gym. I'll just spend less money if they close at 7pm. I've wanted to not make this a full on party trip and do some of the touristy stuff i was into in my 20's.. I'll have my fun during the day and go to bed early. I'm up for the adventure. I'm not spending the holidays doing nothing in LA. I'll just got to whatever is open in Europe. I've got almost 3 weeks. I'm heading out mid December so that will be the end of the 4 week period anyhow. I arrive in Amsterdam Xmas day or eve.

Cool, R391. I’ll plan on still giving you the special DL hand signal in the dry sauna room at NZ on Dec 26th at 10 pm. Or not, heh heh. But it would be fun.

I will be there, OP...perhaps! I've never been to that sauna.

It’s a good sauna, R393. Just a few blocks from Amsterdam Centraal. It’s got a lounge area with a bar and all the other usual rooms. Some of them were a tad too dark for my liking but it’s OK. Good mix of young guys and older men.

Wasn’t a fan of the NZ sauna at all, I really miss the thermos saunas.

What were they, R395?

Yeah, I always get a snotty attitude vibe at NZ but it’s the only game in town. I can’t believe Haarlem doesn’t even have a gay bar. Any recs for Rotterdam?

The main thermos sauna (Thermos Day) was on a side street near the Leidseplein, four or five stories spread across three buildings. There was also a smaller one, Thermos Night, that I think was in the Kerkstraat but burned down in 2010. The main sauna went bankrupt and closed in 2016. Sauna NZ doesn't compare in my opinion, but I guess in general saunas have fallen out of favor thanks to hook up apps.

The only reason to go to Rotterdam is for the modern architecture (different than everywhere else in NL) and the museums; it's a worker's city (blue-collar Dutch and immigrants) and not especially gay/gay-friendly, though some folks are trying to change that. I think it's a candidate for EuroPride 2023.

Thanks, R397.

hey guys, what plans are you using for texting /data when abroad?

I have t-mobile and I think free international - *I think*. If not, back in the day, you can do an add on international plan for $30 or so. Thank you for the reminder. I need to add that to my list.

But don't forget once you run out of the (always) small amount of data, you are charged a high fee for roaming...

This is true, R401. Although I feel like everywhere in Europe has Wifi prominently announced wherever you go. You could probably get by with that.

Free wifi varies city to city in Europe. Brussels is pretty bad. A lot of services are contact free due to the pandemic. Two of the hotels I booked (Berlin, Prague) had no front desk and could only be accessed by phoning in and getting access codes for entry. I didn't plan ahead, wasn't warned about it in advance. A stable international roaming plan would have saved a lot of time and worry.

At&T has a good international plan, $10 per day. Which certainly adds up but you get unlimited coverage.

It's official: The Netherlands will become the first western European country to impose a partial lockdown since the summer, introducing strict new measures from Saturday in the face of record numbers of new Covid-19 infections.

The restrictions will last at least three weeks and include the closure of bars, restaurants and essential shops from 8pm, with non-essential retail and services such as hairdressers to close at 6pm.

Gatherings at home would be limited to a maximum of four guests, all amateur and professional sporting events must be held behind closed doors, and home working was advised except in “absolutely unavoidable” circumstances.

Schools, theatres and cinemas will remain open, as will conferences where the audience is seated, but public events such as trade fairs and exhibitions where the public can move around are cancelled.

I don’t know if it’s still true, but look into roaming charges on AT & T international plan. I was in Europe with a friend in 2015- I had Verizon, she had ATT, both on the $10/day international plan. I was charged $300, and her’s was $3000 because of the roaming fees.

You can’t buy a SIM card?

I’ve used my international plan on AT&T since 2017 and it’s locked in at $10 each time. No additional charges.

$10 per day, of course.

If I got charged over $100 for ten days overseas then I’d fight them on it. And I’d win. And I’ve sometimes been in four different European countries on one trip.

We use T-Mobile here in the US and when traveling. Overseas, the data speeds can be slow, but they're manageable until you find free WiFi. I've also found that you can play with the carrier settings on your phone to select another carrier that may have faster data speeds than the default carrier your phone selects.

My WiFi has always worked fine in the Netherlands and Germany. I agree about Belgium. It can be very spotty there.

Honestly it's easier just to buy a local SIM card once you get into town. For 20 euros you can usually get unlimited/extensive texting and calling with a few GBs of data, enough for Google maps and some non-WiFi grindr convos for a week.

The US has been removed from Germany’s list of “high risk” countries. Wow.

Interesting that Germany is telling other members of the EU that they should ban UK travelers. Could this be a teensy bit connected to Brexit? In any case I hope it happens and I won’t have to suffer Brit tourists in the city center.

Got this response from CoronaCheck Rep:

It is currently not possible to load foreign QR codes in the app. Foreign QR codes can be used in the app of the country in which the QR code is made. Foreign QR codes, either on paper or digitally can be scanned by the CoronaCheck Scanner and can therefore be used to visit Dutch events. Unless you are not vaccinated, a vaccination certificate will also be allowed for travelling, as long as you have a valid certificate.

Barron's: The German city of Munich on Tuesday cancelled its upcoming Christmas market, which usually draws some three million visitors annually, citing Bavaria's "dramatic" coronavirus resurgence.

And is it begins. I really think the Christmas season is going to see more and more lockdowns. I was optimistic a month ago - now I just don’t think it’s worth it. I’ll wait until things settle down - hopefully by March.

[quote] It is currently not possible to load foreign QR codes in the app

What if you use a VPN? I have a free VPN that lets me select from USA, Japan, and one other country (I forget which). If I paid, I could select European countries.

Good riddance to the Christmas markets. After a couple mulled wines and some Lebkuchen they're just repetitive and full of plastic crap. Just put up some lights and play some festive music.

R417, could you elaborate on how a VPN would do that, thanks.

I think I’ll be OK. I’m sure most establishments have a CoronaCheck scanner so it’s only a matter of me showing my Excelsior Plus QR code to them.

I did want to do a day trip to Cologne/Köln for their Christmas market but I think that will be cancelled, too, although I don’t think the state it’s in is as bad as Bavaria’s, Covid-wise.

Well, a VPN masks your true location. You have a list of options, different countries to connect through. Hopefully the website you need to access would think you’re in X country. Like I said, the European ones on my service cost money. It’s quite possible that the website has a list of the IP addresses that vpns use. I’ve tried to use the BBC I-player with a popular free vpn and they were like, yeah nice try. Maybe you know someone who uses a paid vpn that has European options, no harm in trying.

vvvv

Why would you go at this point? Everything's being shut down and everybody's sick.

[quote] I am an Anglophile at heart, but when it comes to Amsterdam, I blame the Brits.

Agree. When I’ve been in Amsterdam, I’ve never seen drunk and/or stoned Americans or French or Germans peeing in the streets, it’s always been the Brits, pulling out their uncut euro cocks, and peeing everywhere and anywhere. Their gross and disgusting. Please stay home, and if you need to venture out, head to Liverpool or Glasgow.

R420, thanks for the info but I don’t want to mess with a Dutch government app via a VPN. A friend over there just told me pretty much all establishments have a Coronacheck scanner. They need all the foreign customers they can get.

R423, the Brits are often quite wonderful to be around when visiting the UK but my god, they’re total pigs when they’re on “holiday.” And we’re still thought of as “ugly Americans”?

OP, you're not going to the Netherlands this year. Just let it go.

Go to Yosemite or Key West or some cabin near the lake for some hiking. Or go to New Orleans and party til you puke. Or lay on a beach and hire a cabana boy.

R417 Nothing at all to do with VPNs or your apparent IP address. They need to authenticate the QR code and they're saying they can't authenticate foreign codes.

True, R426. VPNs actually don’t apply in this situation, R417.

Well heck. I just logged into my VPN and the Netherlands connections are free today. Yesterday it was Japanese ones. Who knows why. But anyway, thanks for the update. I just have the basic CDC card. I’ve been following this post because I want to visit friends in Holland next summer.

OP - I am still going. We are going to have the same surge here which usually follows the European surge. I'm vaccinated, things will be open, and there are no guarantees that the virus will not continue to ebb and flow for years to come. Hopefully not, but who knows. Wasn't the estimate that it would be done by the 4th of July this year. It's a new virus, no one knows. Why put off for another year. Life is short.

I agree with your "Go!" attitude but I'd stay open to switching to another European country if the Netherlands closes down too strongly.

I am, R430. If I have to abort Berlin and Amsterdam to spend more time in the UK or Spain, I will. We'll see how it goes. I'm pretty open and am going on my own so I can be flexible.

R430, I think the Netherlands current “short and sharp” lockdown will suffice, at least for as long as I’m there starting in the middle of next month. I highly doubt there will be any sort of lockdown over the Christmas/New Year’s period, that’s why it’s only going on from now until Sinterklaas Day (Dec 5th). I can see protocols being stricter but that’s it. I think Germany (at least Berlin, where I’ll be for a week) will be fine, too.

In The Netherlands primary school children are currently the group with most positive Covid-19 tests. Children under the age of 12 are not vaccinated and don't have to maintain social distancing.

Reuters: New coronavirus infections in the Netherlands jumped to their highest level on record on Thursday, as they topped 20,000 for the third day in a row.

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R434 Just a scare tactic unless we also see hospital and ICU admissions.

You think the Netherlands instituted a three-week lockdown because the hospitals are empty, R438?

Germany is turning into more and more of a shitshow. The incoming Chancellor said today that “drastic measures” will have to be taken to get through the winter months. It’s looking like I might need to start rethinking my decision to go to Berlin for a week. At this rate I might not even get to do a day trip to Dusseldorf.

R439 So tell me, of those 20,000 found infected today, how many will end up in hospital and how many in ICU? Posting big scare numbers of the infected without the full picture is misleading.

Just two landed in hospital, Rose, out of 20,000 a day.

Just remember, it generally takes about ten days after infection for the illness to turn serious enough to require hospitalization and a couple days after that to need ICU. So don't look at today's numbers. Wait two weeks. Vaccination rates are not huge in Europe... high 60%. Anyway the risk isn't getting sick if you're vaccinated, it's being denied your plane ride home if you're positive when you are scheduled to fly out.

Sweden is introducing the covid certificate/passes as well. Cases are rising and they expect to peak in mid-December.

We need a neg covid test to come back to the USA right? for US citizens? just double checking...

Yes, but it can be a rapid test.

Neighbouring Austria, which this week became the first European country to lock down the unvaccinated, will hold talks over a full federal shutdown on Friday amid unconfirmed reports of bodies being stored in overcrowded hospital corridors.

The states of Salzburg and Upper Austria will enter a month-long full lockdown next week, regardless of the outcome of the talks between regional leaders and Alexander Schallenberg, the conservative Chancellor.

The Netherlands posted record infection rates of 23,680 on Thursday for the second day in a row amid reports it was running low on Covid tests and the government wanted to extend the Christmas holidays to slow rising infections among schoolchildren.

Last week it imposed a partial lockdown, with restaurants and pubs forced to close from 8pm and large events banned.

are you guys buying any special plastic thingy to put your vaccination card (cdc) in? I'm thinking of ordering one online.

[quote] are you guys buying any special plastic thingy to put your vaccination card (cdc) in? I'm thinking of ordering one online.

Yes, since you will be having to show it constantly as you travel around. Since the CDC card is just paper, it’s going to get beat up and tattered pretty quickly. Just back from Amsterdam on Nov 2. Everywhere accepted my CDC card, no problem. But every place did expect to see it and made me produce it and looked at it. I think for the most part, places that see a lot of American tourists are now pretty much used to and familiar with the CDC card. That’s why the phone app Covid pass they have is really nice. I wish the Biden administration would get their act together and give us some sort of digital national pass that we could access from our phones.

Yes, get it before you leave. You won't find them for sale in Europe.

[quote]We need a neg covid test to come back to the USA right? for US citizens? just double checking...

Yes. They'll likely ask to see it before letting you board a plane. Fortunately COVID tests are much cheaper in the EU. (mine in Portugal was $40)

You can add your covid vaccine card to your Apple wallet in your iPhone. I don't know if it will be accepted as valid in other countries, though.

How’s Denmark faring? Was considering business travel in early January.

Austria will become the first country in western Europe to reimpose a full coronavirus lockdown this autumn to tackle a new wave of infections, and will require its whole population to get vaccinated as of February.

Austria introduced a lockdown for those who are not fully vaccinated on Monday but since then infections have continued to set new records. The new national lockdown starts Monday and will last 10 days minimum, and may be extended to 20. The blanket requirement to get vaccinated will start on Feb. 1.

Germany warns it may follow Austria into a national lockdown.

R449 Yes, checking in with KLM in Amsterdam for my Delta flight back to the USA they checked my Covid-19 test (rapid antigen €58 at the airport) both at the check in counter and then again at the gate along with my boarding pass. You also have to complete a self a testament form prior to boarding too that was collected at the gate when scanning your boarding pass. A lot of extra hoops to jump through now, but not overly burdensome.

Dutch healthcare officials said on Friday they have begun delaying operations for some cancer and heart patients to free up space in intensive care units during a record wave of COVID-19 infections.

"These are cancer patients that should actually be operated on within six weeks of diagnosis, and that won't be met in all cases. It's also heart patients," said a spokesperson for LCPS, the national organisation that allocates hospital resources.

Well the little FvD nazis just set Rotterdam on fire, and police there are tougher than Amsterdam. Enjoy the holiday fireworks!

[quote]Well the little FvD nazis just set Rotterdam on fire, and police there are tougher than Amsterdam.

Indeed: "Public broadcaster NOS said at least two people had been shot by police, but their conditions were not immediately known. There was also no word on the exact circumstances of the shootings."

[quote]and will require its whole population to get vaccinated as of February.

And the virus will continue to wax and wane just the same.

I wouldn't want to be in Netherlands any time soon.

Nonetheless, this may give other countries like Germany pause about reimposing lockdown.

I am glad I cancelled my trip now (not OP). So many hassles with the testing - and now a good chance that things will be closed or partially open. I was looking forward to the bars in the gayborhood - which ain’t happening now.

R461, there have been pockets of civil unrest over the past year due to mandates/lockdowns in the Netherlands. I don’t believe this will be a widespread issue. I’m still going.

It was announced today that New Year’s Eve fireworks will be banned nationwide for the second year in a row. New Year’s Eve fireworks are a big deal over there because they’re not allowed to set them off at any other time of the year. When I spent New Year’s Eve in Haarlem I thought I was in a war zone. It was totally nuts. I think a bit of that protesting tonight was over that announcement.

Clarification-I last spent New Year’s Eve over there in 2019.

^Makes sense, R467. Taking off masks to eat in close proximity on a plane with recirculated air seems like a potential Covid Festival.

Haven’t flown since the pandemic, and the idea of it atm is not appealing: Covid potentialities, heightened crowds and emotions (people assaulting one another and refusing basic safety standards?) and the coming holiday push seems as though it would be a recipe for disaster.

The “I’m Travelling At All Costs” mentality comes off poorly. Going to places where medical personnel and facilities are maximally stretched, lockdowns and closures are in place, and the need for vaccine evidence to enter basic venues screams logistical nightmares. Add riots and it all makes for the underpinnings of a parody film on travel.

R463 sounds as though they have become wise to the overall situation.

I just can't figure out what fun there will be. I can see not wanting to cancel, naturally, but I can't imagine much fun once you get to Europe this year.

[quote] I just can't figure out what fun there will be. I can see not wanting to cancel, naturally, but I can't imagine much fun once you get to Europe this year.

If you are single, have the money, and have been stuck at home on your own most of 2020, a change of scenery will be interesting at the very least.

I never bought the whole "the airplane filtration system is best and safest thing in the world". I've flown a few times domestically and fortunately they were peaceful flights. As long as you have a drink in your hand you can have your mask off, which many do. I think these are just the risks you accept. `i will say that I have several flights on google alerts and they are full. There were a few side trips I was hoping people might bail out on and see the prices go down, but nope.

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Thanks to those posting upthread about their prep for travel as well as how using their CDC cards in the Netherlands was no big deal.

Of course the violence in Rotterdam is disturbing. I don’t expect this sort of situation to be widespread, though. I don’t expect my stay there to be the easygoing, near blissful experience it was from late 2016 to early 2020.

The European posters warned at the top of this thread about a potential disaster coming in winter.

We can see it coming from really subtle indications, as you can in the US.

I can see still wanting to travel to Europe even under these conditions. It's a personal choice and as long as one is fully vaccinated and willing to take the risk of falling ill and as long as travel is permitted why not?

From a historical perspective it could be interesting to experience Europe under these conditions

Personally I am not willing to risk such travel at this time. I'm hoping for a window to open in late Spring.

It's quite depressing, we've fought it harder and longer than the US.

I think everybody's mental health is on a knife edge, hence the riots..

My advice would be to wait until temperatures in Northern Europe are above 20c (70f) before planning anything. That appears to be the breaking point of the spread of the virus.

[quote]My advice would be to wait until temperatures in Northern Europe are above 20c (70f) before planning anything. That appears to be the breaking point of the spread of the virus.

Florida’s experience this past summer would suggest otherwise.

But it's inverse in Florida. In summer, everybody's indoors to beat the heat with air conditioning. In winter in the north everybody's indoors to escape the cold.

Humidity?

Arizona’s summer heat has broken and residents are spending more time outdoors, but case numbers are back to pre-vaccine levels.

It doesn't turn on a dime and there are other factors, like vaccination levels and transmissibility, but if you're spending a lot of time indoors with poor or limited ventilation that's prime conditions for spread.

I briefly wrote a man in the Netherlands who refused to speak to me after I didn't validate his bizarre conspiracy theories. Apparently blood drinking satanists are everywhere, controlling world banks. I'm so tired of hearing about the phucking Illuminati.

As R480 said it's mainly about being able to sit/eat outside, not magic.

Better ventilation and avoiding crowds will always beat other precautions, maybe even the injections ?

Amazingly similar to Spanish Flu in that regard.

I think we're seeing there isn't just one answer. Like a poker hand, there's several cards come together. Some hands are stronger than others. Vaccination is best, but not all or only. I read today there is a new variant in the UK that they expect to become dominant. It is more transmissible (by about 15%) but less likely to be symptomatic. Which made me wonder if the virus is finally starting to mutate toward somethig milder.

The Netherlands started transporting COVID-19 patients across the border to Germany on Tuesday to ease pressure on Dutch hospitals, which are scaling back regular care to deal with a surge in coronavirus cases.

The number of COVID-19 patients in Dutch hospitals has swelled to its highest level since May in recent weeks and is expected to increase further as infections jump to record levels.

Almost a third of all operating theatres in the Netherlands had been closed to limit the use of intensive care beds.

for anyone thinking of travelling, make sure you have travel health coverage that includes COVID. Often times credit card coverage excludes any costs in an area where there is a travel advisory against going there.

Is it possible to secure travel health insurance for any country with a health advisory?

I think privately, yes, from an insurer.

The gay homocon health minister of Germany said today at a news conference that after this winter he believes most Germans will be either "vaccinated, cured or dead."

Merry Christmas!

R474, I couldn’t have put it better, myself. That’s exactly how I feel. Thanks.

Same, OP. Although I think I might swap Berlin for Rome. I don't want to be in a potential lockdown situation in Germany - we'll see how it goes.

The health minister of the Netherlands has said the government will announce new Covid measures on Friday, as hospitals struggle to cope with a surge in cases.

“The infection rate is higher than ever before,” Hugo de Jonge said in a letter to parliament. “Hospital admissions keep exceeding expectations and we have not seen the worst yet.”

From today, 1.5 metre social distancing was made compulsory for all adults in locations where Covid passes are not required.

France is set to announce new Covid measures tomorrow as infections surge across the country.

Have a great trip!

The Friday announcement in NL will be the nail in the coffin for any hope of avoiding lockdown. I’m glad I decided not to go. But is getting depressing after postponing for what will almost 2 years by March.

I don’t think it will be a hard lockdown, though. I’m prepared to wear my mask everywhere, indoors and outdoors. And to get a lot of take-out after 8 pm.

^ Geez, sounds worse than things in the USA.

More restrictions, less freedoms.

Guess for some like OP, traveling to Covid hotspots (with medical overloads, riots, and mask & lockdown mandates) fulfills their jollies?

Italy has unveiled new Covid measures, set to come into force on 6 December, that will ban unvaccinated people from entering venues including cinemas, restaurants and sports events. From 15 December, mandatory vaccination will be extended to include all school staff, police and the military. Healthcare workers are already required to be vaccinated.

In Italy mask wearing indoors and on public transport is still mandatory, social distancing is still enforced everywhere except high speed trains.

[quote]I don’t think it will be a hard lockdown, though. I’m prepared to wear my mask everywhere, indoors and outdoors. And to get a lot of take-out after 8 pm.

Takeout from where? Bars and restaurants have to close at 8. Though, hopefully, that measure will have expired by the time you visit.

R499 - OP said you can get takeout from restaurants before they close at 8pm, so it's pretty self explanatory.

I think you can still order from UberEats etc. after 8pm

No risk from an Uber deliverer...

The restaurants have to close at 8. Not just to on-site diners, they have to close their kitchens. There is no place for UberEats to deliver from.

The lockdown goes harder tomorrow. You will have nothing to do in the NL over Christmas.

[quote]The restaurants have to close at 8. Not just to on-site diners, they have to close their kitchens. There is no place for UberEats to deliver from.

Restaurants can still offer take-out outside the mandatory closing hours, although some probably choose not to. Places like McDonalds close at 8pm too but the drive -thru remains open.

OP can have his main meal mid day then chew on a big Dutch salami at night.

Does anyone else think it's kind of a long way to go for a Big Mac?

Haha, this is all very amusing.

My Dutch friends tell me that many restaurants and bars are offering takeout. They have to or they’d end up in a serious financial hole.

OP - do your friends have on the ground intel on the coffee shops and bars during the day? Are gyms open? My hotel has an awesome gym. I'm hoping to get high, work out, and do some day drinking. I've heard the protests etc are over exaggerated in the media. Hopefully the British style gay pub will be open during the day as well.

I find closing restaurants 3-4 hours early is a pretty lame half-assed way to address the issue. Will,it really make that much difference? Just means more people jam in between 5-8 rather than spread out over the night. Either lockdown or don’t.

Outdoor heaters could make evening sidewalk dining fun but it would take thousands of them.

Not sure about Outdoor Heaters?

The French have already begun to ban them, the rest of the EU and the UK are likely to follow suit.

R510, there are usually accompanying capacity limits, so people can't jam in.

French health minister Olivier Véran said today that face masks have been left behind, especially by the vaccinated who think they have nothing to fear. From tomorrow he said it will be mandatory to wear a mask inside. He said they will also be required at events, including Christmas markets.

Véran says people are no longer being as responsible as they should be, so they need to “shape up”.

He also said that starting in December there will be a new anti-viral drug on the market in France that they are “very hopeful” about.

OP your determination to go regardless of corona measures strikes me as peculiar. You profess your love for the Netherlands but evidently don't speak Dutch, are too chickenshit to ride a bike in Amsterdam, and you claim to have Dutch friends and yet here you are paying to stay at an AirBnB every time you travel there. What's the point of having international friends if you can't crash with them? You say you "love the people" in NL but there won't be much opportunity to interact with them in a lockdown situation. What is the point of flying all the way over there if you're going to be holed up by yourself eating take-out and Albert Heijn cold cuts?

Also, it seems like bars/restaurants and non-essential stores may now have to close at 5pm.

{quote] Outdoor heaters could make evening sidewalk dining fun but it would take thousands of them.

Those are extremely expensive to run.

R509 I doubt coffeeshops will count as an essential business. If you just want to get fucked up during the day you can find better weed, booze and men in California.

Latest rumor is non essential shops and restaurants might have to close at 5 pm. Details will be outlined in a Prime Minister/Health Minister press conference tomorrow night.

R515, you don’t know me so very kindly fuck off.

OP, I'm totally following your guidance (the "backpacking" 4 countries poster). I'm still going to Europe regardless, but my deal breaker for Amsterdam will be if only essential shops are open. I'll wait for your updates. I should be researching this myself but I am dreading the prospect of having to completely redo my travel schedule and don't want to face it this weekend. Ryan Air is having their Black Friday sale, so I should probably get on making new flights if Amsterdam is a no go. It sounds like you have friends there, so regardless it could still be fun. And I'm arriving Christmas day.

I am surprised this is happening. I've been to Amsterdam twice and the Dutch seem(ed) so orderly and rule following when I was there.

Thanks, R519.Tomorrow night’s press conference will no doubt bring up details of what’s in store. The only way I’m not going to the Netherlands in three weeks is if there’s an outright travel ban but I seriously doubt that’s happening.

Have you gotten the booster? I’m probably way off base here but is it possible they might only allow in people who have been boostered? Fauci is claiming that only after receiving the third shot is someone “fully vaccinated.”

This new South African variant is certainly cause for concern. Geez. One thing after another. I can live with businesses beinv shut down. My main concern is the hospitals being overwhelmed. Buying travelers health insurance has never been so important.

[quote] OP your determination to go regardless of corona measures strikes me as peculiar.

This. Absolutely this, R515.

No, R520 - I have not had the booster yet, but I'll probably get it before I go. Since the efficacy isn't that long (it appears) and we have to wear masks indoors where I live regardless, I might wait until we get into December before I get the booster.

Comprehensive list of the restrictions:

Not as harsh as I thought. But the gay bars are basically closed. Not particularly interested i going in mid winter unless I can sit in Soho and have a fresh beer in the warmth. Maybe come Spring.

I’m glad I didn’t book any theater tickets yet. Because those shows are probably screwed. No evening performances until Dec 19th at the earliest.

R525, Amsterdam’s gay bars have been distinctly underwhelming IMO. Haarlem’s one gay bar (which was sort of pathetic) closed a few years ago. Anybody been to any in Rotterdam, the Hague or Rotterdam?

R527 I used to have to go to The Hague every 3 weeks for work (5* Hotels + expenses). I managed to exit the contract early by dubious means.

It is quite possibly the most boring place on the planet, only my alcoholism kept me sane.

The Hague has great museums and pretty foreign embassy buildings but no real nightlife to speak of. There are a couple of low-key bars in Utrecht that are pleasant but nothing spectacular.

I would have thought Haarlem would have at least one Townhouse/piano bar type establishment. It’s a very upscale city.

Netherlands has “dozens” who have tested positive for the New South African variant.

How will this play out in light of the already stretched medical system in that country?

How long is that flight South Africa to Netherlands ?? Netherlands require vaccination proof right?

R532 It's about 11 hours from Johannesburg to Schiphol, generally only one direct flight per day luckily.

You need proof of vaccination or recovery, plus a negative test for some Countries.

Many passengers on the two flights that arrived from South Africa to the Netherlands last night did not wear face coverings, New York Times reporter Stephanie Nolen says.

Nolen, who was on one plane, said many passengers did not follow the health guidelines despite a mask mandate by Dutch airline KLM, which operated both flights.

Passengers were stuck on the airport tarmac for about four hours before being sent to be swabbed.

“... still probably 30% of ppl are wearing no mask or only over mouth. Dutch authorities not enforcing. We’re just all in this unventilated room at hour 12, breathing on each other,” she tweeted

“After all that time with maskless yellers in an unventilated space – we shall see what the next days bring.”

That will be a fascinating outcome. If it is that much more transmissible the entire plane could become infected in those circumstances. On the upside, i it will be useful as a good indication of the severity of disease in infected people. So thanks, assholes on KLM.

This travel ban is idiotic. People in southern Africa who want to go to Europe can just connect in a different airport (Accra, Lagos, Cairo). The omicron variant has already been confirmed in Belgium.

I just want to know is the vaccine effective? Hopefully they can get an answer to that quickly - this flight is a perfect test case.

R536 Probably not Cairo, Egypt have also banned flights from southern Africa

60 people already tested positive on one flight in the netherlands! omg! I thought you don't test positive until 4 or 5 days after exposure? 11 hrs and they are positive already? netherlands require negative covid test before flight!

R539, it isn't to say they weren't positive when they boarded but hadn't tested positive yet for whatever was required to board. In the U.S. you need a test 72 priors to flight. So if you're flying Friday you can test any time from Tuesday. It is possible you got missed. As I understand it Delta shows up on average in testing in about 3.8 days.

Now thirteen cases confirmed in The Netherlands.

The number was lowered to 13, I think. Still strange that they’d tested negative before boarding the plane.

That’s all well and good but the doctors who first discovered this variant in South Africa said that symptoms were mild. Many of those testing positive in Europe are asymptomatic, so there’s no suggestion that the current vaccines aren’t effective against this variant.

Now detected in Australia, Belgium, Botswana, Britain, Denmark, Germany, Hong Kong, Israel, Italy, the Netherlands and South Africa. And a new case just identified in London.

Agree R543. A few doctors now saying it’s likely not a big deal. Not more severe and vaccine likely covers. The social media (aka, “news”) on this has been hyperbolic. No wonder we don’t have rational political discourse anymore.

Two cases in Canada.

Wrong R545. There is not enough data presently to assess the R0 yet - until that is obtained it is impossible to understand how contagious the variant is. Likewise, there won't be enough data collected for a few weeks to obtain basic epidemiological data such as incidence rates, case fatalities, etc.

They seem to know that Omicron is very contagious, probably months before any conclusion can be made as to it's true voracity.

Switzerland is doing a full lockdown, at least per the DM. I don't want the anxiety of sorting it tonight but will deep dive tomorrow. My flight back has an overnight layover in Zurich where I have a room right by the airport. They are doing the whole 10 day quarantine thing. I need to start figuring out what is going on. Is all of Europe going into some sort of quasi-lockdown?

A Christmas Lockdown starring....

Heather Locklear, Gary Lockwood..

R549 It's more than quasi and I'd avoid Switzerland, It's what Europeans were warning about when this thread started almost 6 months ago.

What do I do? I have an overnight layover from Barcelona to LA in Zurich when I return early Jan. I was hoping to explore, but now I am just hopeful I can go to my hotel by the airport and catch the morning flight home. I don't want to have to sleep on the floor in the airport.

US citizens aren't barred from entry - [bold] Yet [/bold], London would probably be a safer bet though if you can rearrange.

There isn't a guarantee that your Zurich return will be operating (almost certainly won't be), who's going to fly in an empty aircraft in to collect you?

R552 Honestly I wouldn't travel to Europe (or anywhere) at the moment it's in a state of flux, I live in the UK and know every devious means of how to avoid problems via routing.

You will end up in a mess, cancel if you can.

R552 OK repeating myself, but I really think that you shouldn't make this trip now,.

I could tell you how to escape from Europe and it will have changed by lunchtime tomorrow. If you don't speak German or French fluently you are double fucked .

Even if you figure out how to get there, the risk of testing positive - if mildly ill or asymptomatic - is now real. You are not getting on a flight home. You will be stranded, at your own expense, for days. Imagine the warm welcome at the hotel.

Merkel is meeting with the new Chancellor and the heads of the various states about enforcing more stringent Covid restrictions.

Unvaccinated people across Germany will soon be excluded from nonessential stores, restaurants and sports and cultural venues, Chancellor Angela Merkel announced Thursday, and parliament will consider a general vaccine mandate as part of efforts to curb coronavirus infections.

Merkel announced the measures after a meeting with federal and state leaders, as the nation again topped 70,000 newly confirmed cases in a 24-hour period.

Biden is about to impose a negative test requirement for people flying into the U.S. that has to be taken the day before departure. Getting more and more complicated.

Reuters: Dutch health authorities on Thursday said most of the 62 people who tested positive for COVID-19 after arriving on two flights from South Africa last week had been vaccinated, lending weight to a call for pre-flight testing regardless of vaccination status.

In addition, all 14 passengers who were later found to have been infected with the Omicron variant were vaccinated, health officials said on Thursday.

I was in Portugal for a week in September, and feel quite grateful that trip timed out just right. Certainly would not go to Europe now.

R560, I was under the assumption that I’d have to pre-test even having gotten the booster. On the Delta app it tells me that’s what I’ll need to do in addition to other requirements like filling out a health declaration form.

Are you all set for your trip, OP?

This is why Switzerlands is consistently number one on the list of most democratic nations on the planet: Swiss put Covid restrictions/measures to the voters.

R563, I leave a week from Wednesday. Still have to do stuff like buying traveler’s insurance and filling out paperwork. Getting a test won’t be a problem, there’s a LabQ mobile testing center a block from where I live.

Sounds good. I hope you'll check in here regularly during your trip so DL can get a bit of a vicarious thrill.

I will, thanks, R566. I’ll be back here once I’ve finally made it over there!

Don't count on it, OP.

FYI OP, France just added to the USA no-go red list.

France24 (which is available free on youtube) reporting that ICUs are full Most patients have been vaccinated! But failed to get their booster in time to avoid catching the delta variant.

Night clubs and other venues are getting temporarily shut down.

Not sure if you were considering visiting France.

Well, NZ Sauna is reopening Monday and will be operating from 11 am to 5 pm. I guess I’ll put in an appearance at some point, probably on my way back from the Rijksmuseum to Amsterdam Centraal.

I had plans to do the Christmas markets in Belgium and Netherlands this year, but have postponed those plans. Hope to make it in 2022 instead.

Arrived safely in the Netherlands today. Decided to upgrade my seat to business class (there were two seats left) from a safety aspect. I was in my own single pod, nobody near me. On arrival at Schiphol the Passport Control was a bit slow because several passengers were unvaccinated and thought all they needed was to provide proof of a negative test. Nope. They had to be escorted elsewhere in the airport to get tested. There were a few passengers on the bus (all young, in their 20s) who either didn’t wear a mask or, as a recorded announcement reminded us, to wear them “properly.” I’ll be taking a stroll around Haarlem tonight to see how it is with this semi-lockdown. Tomorrow I’m heading into Amsterdam-that should be interesting.

Excellent, OP. I'm going to enjoy your updates. I didn't realise unvaccinated people could still fly. Were the flight attendants wearing masks?

R573, yes, all flight personnel were wearing masks.

Went into Amsterdam today, first stop was the Rijksmuseum. Not many people there at all which was strange and a little sad. I was glad to see Rembrandt’s The Night Watch again although it’s still undergoing “treatment” and only a part of it is on display behind a large glass encasement. Had a rapid test in Haarlem this morning to get into the museum, will have another one tomorrow for when I go to The Hague in case I go somewhere like a restaurant or a museum. Here in Haarlem even at the local McDonalds they check at the door for your vaccination status. Lots of talk about omicron fucking up the holidays, it looks like the Netherlands might soon follow France in enforcing further restrictions on Brits entering the country.

R574 It wouldn't be unreasonable of them to limit the entry of British citizens, Covid cases have almost doubled in the space of a few days here.

They are probably only delaying the inevitable though.

Hope you're taking a lot of pix to chronicle your visit during the pandemic, OP. This could lead to an eventual book deal if you're interested in such things

What is it like at your hotel? Were you obliged to test there? Some places I know are taking temps before allowing entry.

R576, I’m staying at an airbnb in Haarlem, it’s a self-contained apartment in a house. I’ve been here three times already and the hosts are great.

Hah, yeah, I’m taking a lot of photos, wouldn’t say no to a book deal!

Off to The Hague today after stopping by Saturday at the Grote Markt here in Haarlem.

I don’t know if you’re following the Dutch news much, OP, but it looks like a hard lockdown might be announced soon, perhaps even today. The Covid expert panel is recommending a harder lockdown (shutting restaurants and bars, all cultural events, non-essential shops and schools) because of Omicron. The NL cabinet is meeting today to discuss if they’ll follow the advice.

Yes, our intrepid traveler will soon be locked up in his hotel/Airbnb room.

Suggested book titles, R576?:

Appalling Americans Abroad

Hell Up in Haarlem

I'm OK - You're Infected

The Netherlands will enter a strict lockdown starting at 5 a.m. on Sunday, sources told NOS, RTL Nieuws and ANP. The lockdown will be announced during a press conference on Saturday night, and it will last at least until January 14. There will not likely be a curfew, like at the beginning of this year.

The Cabinet made the decision to adopt the Outbreak Management Team’s advice on Saturday afternoon to try to prevent a spike in coronavirus infections caused by the Omicron variant of the SARS-CoV-2 virus. The OMT had suggested an almost complete lockdown affecting all sectors except for essential stores, such as supermarkets and pharmacies. The closure will affect all hospitality businesses, non-essential shops, museums, amusement parks, cinemas, theaters, gyms, and close contact professions with no medical purpose, RTL Nieuws reported.

Yes, R578, I’m well aware of the impending announcement. At the very least I would expect all schools are closed with immediate effect until the end of the year. I am bracing for the worst, though. I left The Hague early this afternoon because it was too crowded (well, it is the Saturday before Christmas). Also there are a lot of motherfuckers smoking on the city streets. It’s very noticeable.

OP, this is even better for a possible book deal. I hope you're writing down your observations so you don't forget delicious little details.

Any dick yet? I imagine the baths will be closed soon. First thing's first.

Haha, R583. Pretty sure the main sauna in Amsterdam won’t reopen until next month. In a way I’m glad that I didn’t make it there. It seems pretty risky. Never been much into Grindr or dating apps but maybe my booster status will make me somewhat more “viable”?

Forgot to add at government linked Covid test yesterday they swabbed my mouth as well as my nose. And the swabbing of my nose has easily been the most thoroughly invasive experience I’ve ever had-and for my job I’ve been tested at least 180 times since summer 2020.

Announcement in a half hour. Fuck it, I’ll be watching a rerun of the Dutch version of The Masked Singer and then the live finale of the UK’s Strictly Come Dancing. Damn, that John Whaite is HOT.

R582 My husband read your reply and though that 'smoking on the city streets' meant outdoor cremation, he's fucking dim. I'll buy him a new colouring book and some crayons.

This is 'Smoking on the streets'.

OP- I’m slow today. I thought at first the title of your thread was -

Neanderthals making it much harder to travel their this fall.

There NOT their

R586 LMAO

They just announced it.

Well, it’s official. I’ll stick it out. My airbnb hosts were so sweet, they told me they’d understand if I wanted to cancel my stay. At least they’re now scheduled to get their booster on the 30th. It will be strange here, that’s for sure. I can’t help but wonder if Germany will have stronger restrictions by the time I go to Berlin on the 27th. I still plan on a day trip to Cologne. Getting my digital Covid certificate there is sort of irrelevant now but I’ll still do it.

Back to The Masked Singer. I don’t know who the fuck these judges and performers are but it’s still fun. I never watch The Masked Singer at home.

You could have a problem visiting a different region of Germany (Cologne). They could restrict travel between different areas of the Country.

Looked into that, R591, and so far it’s fine. In fact with the restrictions which were enforced a few weeks ago here a lot of Dutch are going to both Cologne and Dusseldorf to go bar hopping at night with no problem at all. Germany and the Netherlands being fellow Schengen-area countries makes a big difference, I guess. I do know that various German states are pushing to make it harder for Brits to enter. The sting of Brexit continues.

r591. For the moment it does not look like this will happen. But in those times, who knows

r592. But there will be travel restrictions from the Netherlands to Germany for non EU passport holders.

I’m traveling from the Netherlands, R594. That’s the difference.

[quote]In fact with the restrictions which were enforced a few weeks ago here a lot of Dutch are going to both Cologne and Dusseldorf to go bar hopping at night with no problem at all.

Can't imagine why the pandemic continues to rage out of control.

r595. Mhmm. May be getting difficult. Keep an eye on Auswärtiges Amt homepage. And enjoy your trip!

BTW, no official fireworks in Germany allowed this year. And no big party at nye anywhere.

Outdoor markets will still be open and public transportation will run as normal. And no curfew (like the one imposed in January). So this really won’t be quite like last Christmas/New Years. But as BBC reporter Anna Holligan put it tonight “The Dutch do not like chaos and that’s what this feels like.”

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

I managed to have a decent time in Cologne yesterday. It was too crowded, though. I did go to the beautiful Engel (Angel) Christmas Market but was surprised nobody was checked with a QR code to be given the go ahead to enter. Speaking of QR codes I had no problem at all getting my EU DCC (digital Covid certificate). I went to a pharmacy across from Köln Hbf, presented my CDC card and passport and was given three pages containing QR codes which I was then able to scan and download onto the CovPass app. My booster info on the third page isn’t used yet, I suppose it needs to be updated. The EU DCC is irrelevant in the Netherlands during the rest of my stay here but will be useful when I go to Berlin. It does appear to be a smart move to go to Germany by train and not by plane-there aren’t any border guards getting on the train to check information details-this ain’t a scene from Julia. The conductor did check my CDC card/ID along with my digital ticket.

Amsterdam is already sort of sad. I really don’t miss all the tourists but I feel bad for all the shop owners and employees who are just screwed until January 14th. Even the big department stores like De Bijenkorf and C&A are closed. It’s a rough time for a lot of people here. Germany and Belgium are trying to tell the Dutch to fuck off and stop entering their countries but that won’t work. Anyway I should think they could use the €€€s generated by the Dutchies.