Theatre Gossip #434 "Ripley's Brielieve it or Not" Edition

Old thread

Lynne sings Micki...

Who brought Brie cheese into this? Is this going to be a picnic? The guy playing Hal better look great shirtless!

Any shows Sean Hayes and Megan Mullaly could do kind of like Jack and Karen? Would "Dubarry Was a Lady" work?

Someone on the previous thread actually defended Ginger Rogers' singing???

I bet her If He Walked Into My Life was one for the ages!

Didn't she also do Coco on tour?

Someone mentioned Eva Gabor last thread. I remember reading that she took over "Tovarich" from Vivien Leigh on Broadway, too. Plus she went on to sing her greatest hit, the them to "Green Acres" alongside Eddie Albert (who really had a lot of Broadway musical experience, starring in, among other things, the original companies of Rodgers & Hart show "The Boys From Syracuse" and one by Irving Berlin "Miss Liberty").

theme, pardon.

For r599 on the last thread: Sondheim also wrote a song for Ginger Rogers.

Donna McKechnie: Music and the Mirror Chorus Line

...assisted by Wanda Richert (arguably the 2nd best Cassie ever, according to some at DL), Deborah Henry, Angelique Ilo, Ann Louise Schaut, Pamela Sousa, Cheryl Clark and Vicki Frederick.

R10, I'll bet Ginger could not have pulled off this Sondheim ditty as well as Miss Bacall.

What happens if someone tests positive for COVID on Broadway?

First Listen: Ben Platt Sings "Waving Through a Window" and More From Dear Evan Hansen Movie:

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1931, "After Tomorrow" opened at the John Golden Theatre.

It ran about 3 months, r15. Made into a film in 1932.

When I was in college, Julie Wilson came to the theater on my midwestern campus in a Bus and Truck of A LITTLE NIGHT MUSIC. It was cheezey. The quintet was a quartet. Frid survived the downsizing, but Mala and Osa and Bertrand were long gone. I waited at the stage door and Julie Wilson talked with me for at least 20 minutes. Where else was there to go?

She was not enthusiastic about the production. She told me the producer had two Bus and Truck companies of the show out at the same time She headed one. Eva Gabor headed the other. To save money, they both rehearsed in the same studios at the same time, with the same director and music director, with everyone moving about from room to room like a French bedroom farce. From the way things looked on stage, I don't suppose they rehearsed longer than 10 days.

I got a nice long chat with Julie Harris at that same theater after THE BELLE OF AMHERST. A friend was with me. We both brought our SKY SCRAPER albums for her to autograph. She did it, too. "Oh, my God. TWO of them!" But the albums did provoke an interesting tidbit. She reminded us that Charles Nelson Reilly directed THE BELLE OF AMHERST. She told us it was in SKY SCRAPER that they met one another and discovered they each had a deep love for the poetry of Emily Dickinson. So from SKY SCRAPER came THE BELLE OF AMHERST. And that's the very best thing that can ever be said about SKY SCRAPER.

[quote]What happens if someone tests positive for COVID on Broadway?

Why is everyone looking at me?

Thanks for sharing that, R12. I had no idea it existed.

And I say this as a true Sondheimite: I never need to hear it again. Seriously, he must have written those lyrics in the cab on the way to the theatre. It could have been a delightful valentine to Bernstein... and it felt kind of arch and contrived and charmless.

Betty looked great, at least, and her shouting was no less melodic than usual.

R18, Seriously?

First listen to DEAR EVAN HANSEN soundtrack.

I like it.

Sounds like a 30 something trying to sound like a teen.

R19, Really? I found Sondheim's special lyrics rather clever, especially if one knows Lenny's history.. I was there at Tanglewood that evening in 1988 and can confirm that Bacall nearly stopped the show with that number. It was recorded by PBS for broadcast, unfortunately Miss Bacall's ovation was edited.

I’m surprised Fran and Barry didn’t bring Erika Jayne back to Chicago. Life imitating art.

Who wants a slice of MYSTIC PIZZA, the new jukebox musical?

[quote]A press description of the show reads, "In Mystic Pizza, three working-class girls navigate the complex expectations of life, love, and family in a small-town pizza joint serving everyone from townies to the privileged country club set. And what's in that secret sauce, you ask? The hits of the ‘80s and ‘90s, from Cyndi Lauper to Robert Palmer!" As we reported in April, the jukebox score will include songs by The Bangles, Wilson Phillips, REO Speedwagon, Belinda Carlisle, Rick Astley, John Cougar Mellencamp, Debbie Gibson, Robert Palmer, Berlin, Van Morrison, the Supremes, Phil Collins, Kim Wilde, Mike and the Mechanics, Fine Young Cannibals, Tiffany, Bryan Adams, Starship, and Melissa Etheridge. Sandy Rustin has penned the book.

R4 is why we can’t have nice things.

R25, it can't be any worse than "Karate Kid: The Musical."

Will we ever get to see The Devil Wears Prada musical?

"Sanford & Son: The Musical!"

After Claudine Longet was acquitted of shooting Spider Savich, she was offered a small fortune to lead a new tour of Chicago. Remember, she had not only been a Vegas showgirl but also had her own solo singing act. She turned it down after BFF Andy Williams told her he was appalled by the suggestion.

^ Sabich

I would actually love a Sanford and Son musical

R32, Billy Porter as Aunt Esther.

To follow up on something from the last thread -- Blythe Danner's signature vocal fry derived from her award-winning performance in BUTTERFLIES ARE FREE. She thought that the hippie character would have a huskier voice, so she altered her vocal production to achieve that -- but without technical guidance, so she permanently damaged her instrument.

[quote] "Sanford & Son: The Musical!"

Stop trying to erase white people!! Sanford & Son is based on the British version Steptoe & Son where the junk dealers were WHITE!

Sanford & Sondheim! Quick, what rhymes with 'dummy'?

R32 Highlights to include Aunt Esther's big 2nd act showstopper, "Listen, sucka!!!!" and Fred's multiple reprises of "Elizabeth, I'm coming to join ya, honey!"

What did Sondheim write for Ginger Rogers?

Believe it or not, the Karate Kid musical has potential… I’ve heard the score and it’s quite good, plus the creative team assembled is pretty innovative and unique given the subject/source material. It’s certainly more inspiring than Mystic Pizza, at least….

[quote] Sanford & Sondheim! Quick, what rhymes with 'dummy'?

I’m going to kick you in the bummy.

You’re not my mummy.

I’ll have another rummy to settle my sore tummy. Oh, that’s yummy.

Fosca, r38.

[quote] What did Sondheim write for Ginger Rogers?

The toothless beggar woman in Sweeney Todd.

I remember reading an interview years ago where Sondheim said that Fred and Ginger would the ideal Ben and Phyllis but I think he was kidding.

I questioned the use of bias cut chiffon for her costume, r42.

[quote]Highlights to include Aunt Esther's big 2nd act showstopper, "Listen, sucka!!!!"

I'm almost ashamed to say I'd love to see this.

[quote]After Claudine Longet was acquitted of shooting Spider Savich, she was offered a small fortune to lead a new tour of Chicago.

She wasn't acquitted, R30. A jury found her guilty of negligent homicide, for which she was ordered to pay a small fine and serve 30 days in jail. She got to choose the days, which were mostly on weekends. Apparently the prosecution and law enforcement bungled the case. I don't know whether "They Both Reached for the Gun" was part of her lawyers' defense strategy.

R46, Andy Williams stood by her throughout the trial, even though they were divorced.

But did Cookie Bear?

R11's clip proves what someone said on the previous thread, "There's no-one like Donna McKechnie". I know the choreography was made on her, but she's probably the oldest Cassie there and still easily the best.

The clip also disproves her own statement "I can't act." She did a really bang-up job of the dialogue that time. Her singing hasn't lasted as well, but my god she's good.

"Suddenly everyone in the world is writing a musical, it seems.:

Yes, it's the age of the amateur. 99 99/100% of these shows will die on the vine.

"and it felt kind of arch and contrived and charmless"

Hogwash. It hits its mark without being disrespectful and throws in some great gags for good measure.

Jack O'Brien was preparing the Hee-Haw musical prior to the pandemic. I wonder if he's still excited about that?

Speaking of Jane Krakowski

In the early 90s, Alice Ripley was a Hee Haw girl. The credit is no longer on her website but it's confirmed on IMDB.

And I was just looking over her IMDB pages and under other "Other Work" it lists "child groomer"!

Wasn't Mystic Pizza The Musical a joke from 30 Rock?

...who are they going to out around Ben Platt so he can look teeanged in HiDef?

Mean Girls musical started out as a joke on the webseries The Submissions.

The joke stop being funny once they actually made it happen.

Stopped

Will people really risk getting Covid to see another fucking movie to stage musical??!

Beanie’s arrival on Bway is just another example of a middling movie star playing a part on Bway and producers doing flips about a “major movie personality” coming to Bway and attracting thousands of fans.

Beanie?? Seriously ?

People link the old thread here but no longer link the new thread on the old thread... Is that because theatre thread starters are no longer subscribers?

R5 I'm the one who said Rogers introduced songs by Youmans, Warren, Berlin and Gershwin. Who the fuck wrote songs for you?

[quote] Will people really risk getting Covid to see another fucking movie to stage musical??!

Ask Disney. They started it.

'And, you know, even, like, operas have, like, songs like that where there's, you know, like, a festival or, you know, a picnic or something. And, like, those are usually boring, too. And I never really understand the function that they serve. And you kind of have a song parodying that called "Corn Puddin'.

This is the level of people today writing, tired, cliched, musical theater satires.

R61, Just because she introduced them does not mean she sang them well. Composers also wrote songs for Fred Astaire to introduce and as a singer he was a consummate dancer.

Sondheimites! Caught right in a sex orgy! Filthy dirty filthy!

R63 not sure I understand the point you’re trying to make. But I will say that Schmigadoon’s “Corn Puddin’” is one of the funniest musical numbers I’ve ever seen. It’s like a demented parody of “This Was a Real Nice Clambake.” The male dancers’ butts look great in their tight pants, too.

yes the butts were the best parts of Schmigadoon. The spoof was no better than stuff my friends and I wrote in high school for the closing night party

someone in the last thread suggested that Tveit is hung and that's how he gets cast so much,

r38: Sondheim wrote a song for Rogers' night club act. I think it's called The Night is the Best Time of the Day.

[quote]As we reported in April, the jukebox score will include songs by The Bangles, Wilson Phillips, REO Speedwagon, Belinda Carlisle, Rick Astley, John Cougar Mellencamp, Debbie Gibson, Robert Palmer, Berlin, Van Morrison, the Supremes, Phil Collins, Kim Wilde, Mike and the Mechanics, Fine Young Cannibals, Tiffany, Bryan Adams, Starship, and Melissa Etheridge. S

One of my pet peeves is when they refer to songs as "by ..." when the person did not write the song, but merely recoreded the most familiar version of it. While some of those artists did indeed write their own material, many did not. Unless they're using the recorded tracks of those artists in the show, it's wrong to refer to "songs by ..." those people.

Whoever said Astaire was a bad singer is just plum crazy.

r69, do you have a source for that? Can't find it in either of his Collected Lyrics volumes, and they're pretty comprehensive.

R71, Oh, please . . . In interview after interview over the years, Fred would downplay his singing ability and admit that he could barely carry a tune.

R69, Would this have been early in his career, circa 1962?

For R62. Who is no student of history.

R73, you are not good at this.

He was being modest. Self-effacing. It plays better in interviews than boasting and bragging.

His innate musicality and sense of rhythm have served him gloriously time and time again when singing. He was wildly successful singing on stage and on film. Broadway. West End. Hollywood. So successful that even without listening to him, it would be silly to suggest he doesn't sing well. He introduced songs written by the most important composers of his era. He recorded with big bands. He worked in film for decades and was never dubbed. There are so many objective facts to consider that all make it clear that his singing was strong enough to support a professional career that few can imagine.

Singing was just one of his talents. Did he dance better than he sang? Yes. But he danced better than anyone sang.

r74 Yes, probably in the early 60s.

r72: It would take a lot of digging for me to find the source; sorry. She used the song in a night club act but I don't know if it was recorded.

[quote] The clip also disproves her own statement "I can't act." She did a really bang-up job of the dialogue that time.

It’s interesting because members of the original cast said that Kay Cole was the triple threat. And it was a thrilling moment when she lets loose and belts “At the ballet”.

I think there was some resentment towards Donna because it was rumored that she was being paid more money. But there was also the resentment when the original workshop members were paid $1 for their life stories and the show became such a super hit.

Donna IS mostly boring as an actress.

r72 and r74: The lyric to The Night is the Best Time of the Day, along with Sondheim's brief narrative, is on p 396 of Look, I Made a Hat.

--r77

McKechnie was a great Sally in FOLLIES. She was the best Cassie.

She showed in FOLLIES just why she was the best Cassie. When the women started dancing in "Who's That Woman?" I couldn't take my eyes off McKechnie. Every movement is cleanly done and fully executed. Her engagement with the music is complete. Just the fucking best.

She might not have a Mother Courage in her, but when well cast, she's extremely good.

Only on DL will you find an idiot (or idiots) INSISTING that Fred Astaire wasn't a good singer, as if this were the consensus. His solo albums are great, and over the years, some of the greatest composers extolled his singing for the purity of the performances, the excellence of his phrasing, etc.

R76, His singing voice was limited, weak, strained, pitchy to the point of sounding off-key and he had no volume.

It's nice that you're such a fan of his singing, but Fred Astaire would make no one's list of top vocalists.

Dig that hole, R83. Dig it deep.

Mother Courage: The Musical

Mother Courage contains nine songs by Kurt Weill.

R76 and R82 are one and the same.

That surprises you somehow r87?

[quote][R76] and [R82] are one and the same.

Actually, no, we are not. But nice try, you troll.

Are you also R83? I want to know how many tin-eared idiots I need to tell to fuck off.

Would the posters insisting that Fred Astaire couldn't sing well please post a link proving their point? TIA!

I couldn't take my eyes off Yvonne. Was she going sit out the entire mirror number? (She did.)

There actually was a documentary some years ago about Astaire as a singer. They made the case that because he was so known for his dancing, his singing never got the attention it deserved. I have to agree.

Tony Bennett recorded three tribute albums to singers he admired: Frank Sinatra, Billie Holiday and...Fred Astaire.

Astaire was a great singer. One of the very best.

Donna McKechnie was the only Sally in Follies who actually convinced you she was once a performer in the follies. Even Dorothy fucking Collins couldn't really pull that aspect off. Donna was gorgeous and heartbreaking in the Paper Mill version.

I worked with Donna a few years ago....the loveliest sweetest woman. Every day she'd come to rehearsals beautifully dressed, in full makeup, false eyelashes, ready to take on any challenges of the day. She was a great example and leader to the younger actors in the company who all adored her.

The Paper Mill was mostly a bust. Ann Miller is a gem on the recording, though.

I don't think Astaire was a great singer. His limited range was too apparent.

Did the younger actors in the company begin showing up beautifully dressed, in full makeup and false eyelashes r94?

After all, they needed to be ready to take on any challenges of the day!

[quote] Mother Courage contains nine songs by Kurt Weill.

Yeah, but does it have a tap number?

If Ann Miller is in it r98, it will.

Ann Miller tapped atop the wagon.

When Ann Miller played Mother Courage at Kenley, it sure did!

Has anyone seen Trial in the Potomac with Rich Little? I did a reading of the play a few years ago and it was a big snooze.

John Kenley played Courage's son AND daughter.

Miss Donna McKechnie. Has her Tick Tock dance in Company ever shown up? I imagine her brief solo in this was comparable to what she did in Tick Tock. Girl could really move!

Bow down to Miss Donna Fucking MacKechnie! THe woman who was told she would never dance again, let alone walk, and then managed to claw her way back to health! That clip above from her return to A CHORUS LINE in 1986 was AFTER she got well! And one of the nicest people in show biz as well.

‘Night Mother the musical.

1) Mother Courage has exactly zero songs by Kurt Weill. 2) Shut up Astaire haters. You’re even more stupid than you are tone deaf and stubborn. Please get off the stage. 3) The Paper Mill Follies was blessed with an apparently huge budget, allowing for scenery that parodied stagecraft of the periods parodied in the Loveland songs. You thought at one point that surely it had been designed by Joseph Urban. Thrilling. Very worthy vocally as well: great to hear Laurence Guittard and Dee Hoty really sing the Stones’ songs. Ann Miller and Kaye Ballard delightful in their numbers. It also made a great CD. It’s been said (perhaps apocryphally) that the only reason this production didn’t transfer to Broadway was the reluctance of Frau Goldman to give her approval. Believe me, it was a treat, and worth the annoying bus ride to Milburn.

I don't recall Paint It Black. Or Ruby Tuesday.

The CD is not great. Jonathan Tunick's talents do not include conducting.

Another vote for Donna McKechnie. One of the nicest people I've worked with.

Does Donna get Bennett's royalties?

[quote]The CD is not great. Jonathan Tunick's talents do not include conducting.

Sadly, I must agree. Because of his listless conducting, that recording is nowhere near as good as it could have been. Only in spots.

r90 just go to youtube and watch any clip of Astaire singing.

His phrasing was great, he knew how to sing a song delivering it like it's just another part of the dialogue in the story which is something missing from most all of today's singers.

His voice isn't pleasing to listen to, he's not a vocalist like Sinatra or Martin or even as pleasant sounding as Danny Kaye. If I'm not watching Astaire in a movie I don't want to hear him singing.

[quote]If I'm not watching Astaire in a movie I don't want to hear him singing.

What you like or don't like, prefer or don't prefer, is irrelevant. If you like it, that does not mean it is good. It means you like it. that's all. It refers only to your tastes. Not at all to the talent of the performer you are considering.

Lotte Lenya.

[quote]His voice isn't pleasing to listen to, he's not a vocalist like Sinatra or Martin or even as pleasant sounding as Danny Kaye. If I'm not watching Astaire in a movie I don't want to hear him singing.

I don't agree. Of course, his voice wasn't as rich as some of the great singers, but it's by no means unpleasant to listen to. And by the way, as he got older, Astaire's voice did become richer and fuller. As far as the actual sound and timbre of his voice, I really like the way he sounds in FINIAN'S RAINBOW.

His voice doesn't have legs. Otherwise, he's fine.

R107, You type very, very gay.

And you, R118 type very, very stupid. Everything that R107 wrote is correct.

Only on DL could an emaciated closet queen who has been dead for over thirty years garner this much attention.

I had a wonderful time at the Paper Mill Follies, but I didn't really think it was a great production, nor was it what Follies was really about. It felt more like "These Old Broads put on a show." And everyone seemed to be miscast. Ballard should have played Stella, Miller should have played Hattie (Yeah, I know it wouldn't have been big enough for her.) and Tony Roberts should have played Ben. (yeah, he's funny looking, but he's tall and commanding and blew Laurence Guittard off the stage.) And as much as I like Dee Hoty, it just didn't gel for me. MacKechnie was actually the performance that worked the best for me. I thought she was wonderful. But, all in all, it was still a lot of fun. (and I got to go backstage after and meet some of them)

They should have cast Tony Sheldon over Dee Hoty. She's good on the CD, though, and at the Leading Ladies TV concert.

R121, The opening arrivals were rearranged from the OBP to showcase Ann Miller's Bob Mackie gown and fur.

R121, wasn't the rumor bandied about that Lena Horne was offered Carlotta? Either way, Ann Miller should have played Hattie or Stella.

I posted this in another thread, but thought it might be of interest here:

Here's the story about the rift between Sondheim and Jason Robert Brown: Several years ago, Jason attended a Sondheim revue on Broadway (I can't remember which one) and had dinner with Sondheim after. During dinner, Jason pointedly didn't say a word about the show he just saw. Sondheim saw that as very rude, and the relationship cooled.

Well, Jason Robert Brown is an asshole. So, there's that...

[quote] Ballard should have played Stella

She could put over Stella’s music, but she could never dance the song.

How did Tony Roberts get so much work over the years? He was fine in "Victor/Victoria" but he was working back in London in "Promises, Promises", in early Woody Allen shows on Broadway, in "How Now Dow Jones" and other things, but what made hims so marketable. He was tall and distinctive-looking, but not traditionally otherwise leading man material, and usually just kind of adequate. Rumor is that he's the one Woody might have joked about in one of his films when Allen talks about having penis envy though.

[quote] great to hear Laurence Guittard and Dee Hoty really sing the Stones’ songs.

Some of the old biddys at Papermill didn’t take to “You Can’t Always Get What You Want” but otherwise they were quite accomplished being that they were performing in the provinces.

Bette Davis confirms @ 1:01:20 that she was asked to sing "I'm Still Here" in the film version of FOLLIES that never happened.

Could Marni Nixon do a good Bette Davis?

How is it that Hal Prince was able to get a film version of A Little Night Music made but not FOLLIES?

R101, you made me howl!

Night Music was more successful. It even had a pop hit.

Night Music was also a much less expensive property to film than Follies would have been.

After The Turning Point, it might have been interesting to see MacLaine and Bancroft as Sally and Phyllis.

JRB is indeed one of the most obnoxious people in NYC theater and I've met most of them.

Hal Prince's idea was to move the film version of FOLLIES to Hollywood. Studios were collapsing in the 1970s. It was a timely idea. He wanted to cast it all with Hollywood stars and incorporate some of their old footage to shock everyone with the passage of time.

Too bad for him, but he blabbed his idea to Jack Haley, Jr., who promptly made THAT'S ENTERTAINMENT! And that was the end of FOLLIES.

When I was still in high school, Bette Davis came to my city with her show that started at Town Hall. It started with a long collection of film clips, then an interview, then audience questions. Being an unbearable teen showmo I made sure I got in line to ask a question. I asked her if it was true that she was going to be in the film version of FOLLIES. She told me that it was true, but still tentative, and she would sing "Broadway Baby." A better fit for her than "I'm Still Here." But if you're going to be on national television, go big. Go big!

R67: Smug is the new funny.

JRB tells this story frequently, r125, and I think wrote about it somewhere. I think it happened many years ago, and it was his first time meeting Sondheim. He said it was excruciating and that he was coached by Hal Prince (JRB and the Prince daughter are close) on how to apologize and all was more or less forgiven..

[Quote] coached by Hal Prince on how to apologize and all was more or less forgiven..

What a pussy.

"....blew Laurence Guittard off the stage."

Now, I would have loved to blow Laurence Guittard backstage.

Tributes for Broadway Dance Center teacher:

'How did Tony Roberts get so much work over the years?'

I would ask that same question. However when I was very young I saw him when he replaced Jerry Orbach in Promises. I had never heard of him. He was sensational and got one of the biggest laughs I ever heard with the suicide joke!

Of course he was never nearly as good again even in Sugar. David Merrick seemed to like him a lot.

Fred Astaire was certainly no Mandy Patinkin.

There's more wit and joy and sheer fucking style in Bennett's four-minute choreography Turkey Lurkey Time than there has been in some entire Broadway seasons of our current century.

I saw the London Regent's Park Carousel last night and was annoyed by how absolutely dreadful the choreography is. I've never understood why Drew McOnie is considered to be some kind of wunderkid or has the career he has - I've never seen anything that he's staged that wasn't either stylistically inappropriate or blandly literal.

To bring it back to this thread: he also directed the first professional UK production of LaChiusa's The Wild Party in 2016, which featured Donna McKechnie as Dolores. While it was a thrill to see her live, she was underused by the production. And as somebody mentioned upthread, without the dancing - she seemed a bit lost in the role.

I read that as Serge Oink on R143's link.

[Quote] without the dancing - she seemed a bit lost in the role.

That reminds of what Karen Morrow recalled someone saying to her after she appeared in a straight play: "Ya shoulda sung, honey."

"I don't know what happened and I don't wanna know." That bothers me.

Schmigadoon! is such a forced bad title that if this is the level of humor in the show it sounds like it goes for a lot of easy targets which have been made fun of hundreds of times before.

The level of the songwriting parodies on Schmigadoon is unbelievably bottom-drawer and amateurish. Truly. Superficial and lazy.

Maybe you should watch it before making judgments.

Sweetie, it stars Keegan Michael Key. Of course it's pedestrian.

Frozen has its first preview in London tonight.

With Facebook and Instagram(I know-same thing) being such Puritans over words like "bitch" and "white trash" and the manner in which men display their covered butts, it's interesting to see they ignored the recent pic of NPH with VPL. Left very little to the imagination.

Don't people usually ignore NPH?

I never hate watch anything. Not even Carrie Underwood in The Sound of Music.

[quote]Ann Miller should have played Hattie or Stella.

At that point in her life and career, she could no longer dance, so there's no way she would have been cast as Stella. And although she wasn't 100 percent right for Carlotta -- too old, and not exactly the right type -- she was much better cast in that part than as Hattie, who's supposed to be a comic character woman.

[quote]I've never understood why Drew McOnie is considered to be some kind of wunderkid or has the career he has.

Well, I assume he's only considered a wunderkind by the Brits, who to this day always seem praise their own people directing, choreographing, and performing American musical theater even when the results are mediocre or worse, which is usually the case.

[quote]JRB tells this story frequently, [R125], and I think wrote about it somewhere.

Yes, he did write about it somewhere, maybe in "The Sondheim Review?" And though I don't believe he named the show in question, I got the impression that it was one of the Sondheim book musicals JRB didn't like, rather than one of the revues. Maybe PASSION or ASSASSINS. (But I could be wrong about that.)

Is Donna the only woman who's played Sally, Phyllis, and Carlotta in Follies? I never took her for someone with that much range, but good for her.

R83, Fred Astaire sang (and danced) on the stages of New York and London before before the days of amplification. I never read that he was not heard.

I remember seeing Dorothy Collins, soon after Follies, play the Janet Leigh role in "Murder Among Friends" at the Tappan Zee Playhouse.

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1930, "Torch Song" opened at the Plymouth Theatre.

[quote]I read that as Serge Oink on [R143]'s link.

That'll do, r147.

R161, I saw Dorothy Collins play Margo Channing in Applause at the NSMT in Beverly, MA two years after FOLLIES closed in Los Angeles.

Fred Astaire IS Carlotta Campion!

"it's wrong to refer to "songs by ..." those people."

But the biggest offense of course is that they're called "songs" at all.

[quote] I had a wonderful time at the Paper Mill Follies, but I didn't really think it was a great production, nor was it what Follies was really about. It felt more like "These Old Broads put on a show."

Sondheim reportedly referred to that production as "Jerry Herman's Follies".

I’d love to know who besides Smith and Collins was in the running for Phyllis and Sally in the OBC.

No, Hattie is not was not a comedy character woman, r158.. In the original, her ghost was strutting around in the opening sequence with a top hat and a cane, looking just like a shorter Ann Miller..

I don't remember who else was up for Sally but Collins was first runner up for both She Loves Me and Do I Hear a Waltz? In fact, Rodgers was the only person who wanted Allen over Collins but he was the producer and she was banging him, so....

Ann Miller could ONLY play Carlotta. She would only play Carlotta.

Carlotta is the only person at the party who is still in show business, who acts like show business, who dresses like show business. Everyone else left it behind decades before. Hattie is not a show girl or a comic. She's a grandmother. She WAS in the Follies, but 50 years before this party.

Put Ann Miller in an off-the-rack Grandmother of the Bride suit Carlottaand a grey wig and see how long before she bolts for the door.

True studio pro. This is take 6 and I like it more than the released version. This is softer. Beautiful.

Tonight’s photos from the curtain call of Frozen reveal a black Young Elsa but a white Elsa. Uhhh…OK.

Hey, guess what, R173. NO ONE speaks in iambic pentameter in every day life. But, shazzam! It happens all the time on stage in London.

If you are going to focus on race as something about which you will not suspend disbelief... own it.

Allen is very wonderful on the obc of Waltz. Also the photo on the back cover of the LP with her singing and Franchi looking at her pretty much sums up the beauty of the Broadway musical.

[quote]I’d love to know who besides Smith and Collins was in the running for Phyllis and Sally in the OBC.

Helen Lawson had to be on the short list.

Fuck off, R174, you’re so very tiresome.

Right before the pandemic, there was a JRB concert at Town Hall. SS was there onstage playing one of his songs and seeming to admire him quite a bit. Think that the rift between them has held up nicely.

[quote]Fuck off, R174, you’re so very tiresome.

Of course, people who can't stop getting their knickers in a bunch over non-traditional casting aren't tiresome at all.

R179, if he could defend his position, he would not have to resort to "Fuck off."

We now know all we need to know about R173. He tipped his hand.

To be fair, you guys would have the same objections to a white child cast as the younger version of an established black character.

Yvonne De Carlo auditioned for Phyllis. The Ted Chapin book has more names.

I'd have to pull out my Everything Was Possible, r168. The only one I remember on the possible cast list is Jane Wyman. And regarding Paper Mill, wasn't it Sondheim who didn't want it to go to Broadway and the widow Goldman was willing to take the blame?

[quote]To be fair, you guys would have the same objections to a white child cast as the younger version of an established black character.

First, you don't know that. And second, for some of us, it is not true.

One problem with the racial question is the notion that white people can only play white people, but people of other races can play whoever they want. Do we want equality now, or do we want a “pay back” period, where people of color are preferred for all jobs?

Fun Home.

Alfred Drake and an array of Divas.

Howes was rather horsey.

[quote] And regarding Paper Mill, wasn't it Sondheim who didn't want it to go to Broadway and the widow Goldman was willing to take the blame?

That's Riedel's made-up version. Bobby Goldman wouldn't allow it to go to Broadway because she had made the deal already for the Roundabout production. And she got the shitty production she deserved. And then the not much better 2011 production.

R167 I'd always heard he called the original London production, "Hello Follies!"

R188 Loved Patrice Mansel.

Yes, it was all about Bobby Goldman. I don't think she had her deal yet with the Roundabout, but Todd Haimes was after FOLLIES and Bobby Goldman was looooooooooving the attention. She played Paper Mill against the Roundabout and the Roundabout against Paper Mill, all to see what she could get out of it. FOLLIES was the only thing that got her phone calls returned. It it got all of them returned.

Ann Miller really wanted to come back to Broadway one more time and sing "I'm Still Here." She was extremely angry at Bobby Goldman. That is true. It is rumored that she threatened to have Bobby Goldman killed. That might fall short of being absolutely true.

R188, Steve Lawrence didn't think so. He cheated on Eydie with her during What Makes Sammy Run?

Uh, Fred Astaire WASN'T a great singer. He could carry a tune but he didn't become an icon because of his singing abilities. He was a brilliant dancer with terrific stage/screen appeal. Who could carry a tune and make it sound effortless. But, if he had had to rely only on his voice, he would never have become a huge star.

Insisting he WAS a brilliant singer makes you sound like a loon.

You lose, R194.

What was Alice Ripley "grooming" these moron girls for? Sex? Indentured servitude?

Because stars using dumb fans as willing slaves is older than the stupid old queens insisting Fred Astaire had the voice of Caruso.

[quote]Loved Patrice Mansel.

Was that the name Patrice Munsel used post-transition?

This is from an interview Sondheim gave to The Paris Review. It contains a lot of information about the proposed film version of Follies that never happened but also contains this:

"[W]hen asked in 2009 what performer of the past he wished had sung his music, Sondheim replied, “Nobody really. Well, actually, Fred Astaire.”

Patrice was *all* woman, r197!

[quote] It is rumored that she threatened to have Bobby Goldman killed.

How? By smacking her with her lacquered hair?

I doubt she would have risked breaking her hair again.

Didn't they try very hard to get Gene Kelly for Buddy in the original Follies?

Death by a thousand corn cob holders, r200.

Probably not, R202. It would have unbalanced the ensemble too much. If anything they probably would have given the big name Ben, since the weight of fame fits his character more.

(Remember, that musicals are built on the cast. Buddy would not have been a dance role if Gene Nelson had turned them down.)

Alexis still in her *Rita* mode...

O.K., I pulled out the damn book. Among those under consideration were:

*

MEN: Van Johnson, E.G. Marshall, Peter Lawford, Jim Backus, Howard Keel, Craig Stevens, Jack Albertson, John Raitt, Don Ameche, and Ray Middleton

*

WOMEN: Rhonda Fleming, Joan Bennett, Kitty Carlisle, Barbara Cook, Gloria DeHaven, and Jane Wyman

R206, Barbara Cook in 1971 was as wide as the Winter Garden stage.

Ted Chapin should update his FOLLIES book with all the stories he had to leave out because the principals were then still alive.

John McMartin was considerably younger than all the other leads, but he looked older than he was.

[quote]If you are going to focus on race as something about which you will not suspend disbelief... own it.

If you are going to extend that dumb argument to its logical conclusion, you would be perfectly okay with a show that had as some of its characters a Scandinavian family of four brothers, all of whom were played by white actors but three of whom were fair skinned, blond, tall, and thin while one of them was short, fat, with dark brown hair and an olive complexion. And you would be just fine with a family of four sisters who were supposed to be in their late teens or early twenties but one of them was played by an actress in her mid 70s. I can hear you insisting that none of that would take you out of the show completely, but we all know that's a lie you're telling just to insist that it non-traditional casting doesn't only apply to people of color, and the truth is that OF COURSE it would take you out of the show because any of that would strain the willing suspension of disbelief beyond the breaking point.

When has a non-black person been cast in a role written for a black person?

R211, When Helen Lawson replaced Leslie Uggams in Hallelujah, Baby!.

Mrs. Goldman authorized the Roundabout FOLLIES in exchange for their producing THE LION IN WINTER, which they did with Stockard Channing and Laurence Fishburne.

(When I asked a friend who saw it how Miss Channing was, he said, "Kind of like Annie Oakley." I said, "Huh?" Referring to the countless epigrams, he said, "They set 'em up, she knocks 'em down.")

[quote]When I asked a friend who saw it how Miss Channing was, he said, "Kind of like Annie Oakley." I said, "Huh?" Referring to the countless epigrams, he said, "They set 'em up, she knocks 'em down."

Just curious, did your friend mean that in a positive or a negative way? I thought that was a pretty bad production of THE LION IN WINTER overall, but I guess Channing was okay if you like that sort of delivery of that role.

Everything Was Possible also included the names of people considered for the West Coast production of Company. For Bobby, Richard Chamberlain (a fan, but not wanting to be a replacement actor), Robert Morse, George Hamilton and George Chakiris, who ended up with the role. For Joanne, Kaye Ballard, Janet Blair, Eve Arden, Gisele MacKenzie and Angie Dickinson ("won't").

R215, Richard Chamberlain did play Bobby on one of Sylvia Fine Kaye's Broadway retrospectives on PBS.

Maybe it was just me and my know-it-all drama school buddies back in 1970. but when we heard about the principal casting for FOLLIES with names like Alexis Smith, Dorothy Collins, Gene Nelson and Yvonne de Carlo, we just laughed and thought "Have they lost their minds?" It just seemed like a list of boring bottom-of-the-barrel has-beens who had never appeared on any Broadway stage, much less a new Prince/Sondheim musical. Of course, I cam around and saw the glorious Broadway original twice, and wish now I'd seen it 10 more times.

The Paper Mill revival was an exciting glamorous event but really not much more in the details. I can understand Mrs. Goldman and perhaps Sondheim not wanting it to come to Broadway. That said, it was miles better than the Roundabout and recent revival. I imagine back then that it seemed a far better production than Paper Mill's would have been possible, but now I know we'll never see the likes of the original again.

Kaye Ballard, Eve Arden or Gisele McKenzie to play....Joanne?!

The mind reels.

Sadly, this audition by Mitzi Gaynor and friends was not fruitful ...

R218, Of those three, I could see Eve in the role.

I thought Lynn Redgrave as Joanne in the 2002 DC production was a casting mistake.

I know she wasn't known for singing, and still had a TV show to do, but ... Elizabeth Montgomery as Joanne?

So much interminable discussion about a show that was a flop.

R214, I think that he meant it as both -- admiration of Channing's skill, but also an acknowledgment of the cheapness of the material.

speaking of that production of The Lion in Winter, WHET Keith Nobbs?

R216 Sylvia Fine - MCT One.

Carmen Cusack IS Julia Sugarbaker!

Keith Nobbs resurfaced in LOMBARDI in 2010 and in BRONX BOMBERS in 2014, both at Circle in the Square. Not sure what he has done since then, maybe some TV or film work? I always thought he was very talented.

Me, too, R228. He really stood out in Stupid Kids and I followed his career since then. Tried to see him in as much as I could through the years. I went to see Bronx Bombers when it was Off Broadway and I was so bored, I left at intermission. And I love baseball. that's the last time I saw him in anything.

Sylvia Fine Kaye - MCT Two.

SFK - MCT Three.

They should have had Chakiris dance Tick-Tock

Good god, those Musical Comedy Tonight specials were a veritable cornucopia of mediocrity.

Barbara Eden could sing and dance just fine. She did a lot musicals in stock and regionally. Here she is as Lalume in a 1967 ABC broadcast of Kismet, with José Ferrer as Hajj, Anna Maria Alberghetti as Marsinah, and George Chakiris as the Caliph (he seems ubiquitous on the thread tonight). It was shown in color but only this black and white kinescope survives.

They really were terrible, R233. As a gayling, they were my first exposure to musical theatre (outside of community theatre, which was almost as bad. But not quite.) I didn't know any better back then.

Sylvia Fine Kaye was quite the little hustler. Outside of being married to (homosexual) Danny Kaye, and writing some specialty songs for him, what exactly is her claim as First Lady of Musical Theatre? Not only is she obnoxious and condescending, she also makes some factual errors in her presentation. And the arrangements and production numbers (including, at times, poor lip-synching) are right out of a third-rate Vegas revue.

I remember reading that Ann Miller was talking with anger about the revival of Follies not going to Broadway and the widow Goldman and said at the time something to the effect of does anybody know a hitman?

What is Jamie Bell’s singing ability like?

I saw the 90s Roundabout “Company.” I specifically went to see Debra Monk as Joanne because I thought she was a good choice. She was underwhelming. I also was in London and saw the Adrian Lester version which was a thousand times better than the dead corpse the Roundabout was beating.

I will always think of that as the Diana Canova COMPANY.

(She played whichever wife gets high on marijuana for the first time.)

It was also the point at which I realized, having loved Boyd Gaines in the SHE LOVES ME revival with a glorious Judy Kuhn, I probably never needed to see Boyd Gaines again.

Is that really George Chakiris' singing voice in the KISMET TV special? I didn't think he could sing like that.

Someone with the pretentious name H.E.R. is playing Squeak in the film version of the musical of The Color Purple.

I still can’t believe that’s happening.

Veanne Cox came out the best in that Company. One review said something to the effect of the original being a gimlet and the revival being a wine spritzer.

Chakiris led the first national of Company, so it probably is his voice in Kismet. The LA production with him, mentioned above, was the first stop of the tour. They shipped the original sets in from NY but the tour didn't sell well and the sets were stripped down to something much more simple without the hydraulics. There were many cast replacements and the tour ended prematurely in DC. There's a grainy black and white boot of one of the last performances which technically preserves the original staging but the performance is not really very good.

I have to say, I'm amused at the idea of Ann Miller putting out hits on people.

It's *always* the ones you least suspect, r244.

Keith Nobbs quit acting and is in law school.

So many promising young men left the business in recent years.

Bobby Steggert is now a therapist. Matt Cavenaugh is now a car salesman in Arkansas. With a double chin.

[quote]When has a non-black person been cast in a role written for a black person?

Othello, which I doubt will ever be performed in blackface again. The Met doesn't even allow its tenors to black up for the part any more, which gives lie to the text and changes the dynamics.

The Roundabout Company was also known for Boyd Gaines not showing up due to illness (somehow he was cast but couldn’t hit the top notes). He performed at the performance I saw but struggled with Being Alive.

I think Charlotte D’Amboise handled Tick Tock very well.

Poor La Chanze was miscast as Marta. She was too sweet and didn’t have the “Noo Yawk” for Another Hundred People.

Trouser roles for men now!

[quote] Trouser roles for men now!

Did someone say revival?

Maybe the Met tenors could use Lena Horne's Light Egyptian No. 2?

Chakiris could sing -- he played Riff on the London stage before being cast as Bernardo in the movie. "West Side Story" was the first show (at least according to musical theater histories) that didn't have separate singing and dancing choruses; they had to do both (oh, and act, too).

I am guilty, R250... of loving IN TROUSERS. I have never seen a production and the book sounds insane.... but some of the music is pretty great.

I'm sure it's utterly unrevivable, but just the sort of thing ENCORES should be exploring.

I don't think Othello was written for a black man, r247.

[quote] I am guilty, [R250]... of loving IN TROUSERS.

There was gossip in the early 90s that PBS was going to film the trilogy: In Trousers, March of the Falsettos, Falsettoland, but I think it was just rumor to boost the later two coming to Broadway. Still, I dream of what might have been.

I’m glad In Trousers was recorded because, despite the oddness of the show, it does have some nice songs. Chip Zien and Alison Fraser in their prime!

[quote]When has a non-black person been cast in a role written for a black person?

Tess Gardella created the role of Queenie in the original company of SHOW BOAT. She was of Italian descent and played Queenie in dark make up.

I wonder if those retired musical actors ever volunteer for their kids' school productions or anything like that. Or get together for reunions. Maybe they should do a show about that ... ?

FOLLIES

Keith Nobbs' Facebook update (June 2020). He sounds smart and highly motivated.

Good for him.

I wouldn’t mind sitting on Keith’s knob.

I agree, R259. He's hot.

Company in Concert. This is as close as you'll get to seeing the original staging and choreography. Sorry, but Tick Tock is a bore, just like Music and the Mirror.

wow, he started law school at age 40.

R246, What about Matt's wife, Jenny Powers? Did she also quit show business? I can't picture her playing housewife in Arkansas.

For anyone up late and who has MeTV, they're showing the Barbara Cook episode of "Alfred Hitchcock Presents" at 1:30 EST.

Thanks for the heads up on that. It’s well worth staying up for.

The Pepto Bismol FOLLIES was NOT better than the National Theatre revivial.

Tess Gardella's stage name was Aunt Jemima, which is how she was billed in the original 1927 production of Show Boat and the prologue to the 1929 film version. She was a big star in vaudeville as Aunt Jemima and spent most of her career playing stereotypical Mammy characters in blackface. She was the only actor in blackface in Show Boat. A the other black characters, including the chorus, were played by black performers.

^ All the other, not A the other.

She was a highly accomplished song and dance woman. And there were rumors she was a man.

Has Gardella's life ever been seriously researched? Is there a bio? I wonder whether she might have been a light skinned black woman -- if she was a woman -- who passed for Italian offstage to avoid discrimination.

So much Papermill Follies bullshit here.

For one thing, the Papermill "Follies" closed several months before James Goldman's sudden death in Oct 1998. At the time, in April and May, when Papermill has its biggest heat and rumors of a possible move, the rights belonged to two people - Stephen Sondheim and James Goldman. And neither one of them wanted it to go on to Broadway. Steve had major problems with some of the casting (including Ann Miller). He did indeed call it "Jerry Herman's Follies" and "Disneyland Follies." Goldman was even less enchanted than Steve. But Steve was all too aware of the feelings involved, especially with some of the older performers who were viewing this as their ticket to one last hurrah on Broadway. And that is why Bobbe Goldman volunteered to take the heat. The truth is, no one wanted it to go anywhere other than the cast and staff involved. But Steve okayed the recording as a consolation prize.

[quote] Sylvia Fine Kaye was quite the little hustler. Outside of being married to (homosexual) Danny Kaye, and writing some specialty songs for him, what exactly is her claim as First Lady of Musical Theatre?

Say what?!

[quote]all of whom were played by white actors but three of whom were fair skinned, blond, tall, and thin while one of them was short, fat, with dark brown hair and an olive complexion

So weird you threw fat in there. I know you likely insist otherwise, but being fat is a choice - no, it's not your hormones. But yes, I'd have no problem whatsoever with one having an olive skin tone.

[quote]And you would be just fine with a family of four sisters who were supposed to be in their late teens or early twenties but one of them was played by an actress in her mid 70s

The actual mind-numbing stupidity of this one.

R247, "black up"??????

I am guessing you are not racist....right?

You would describe the guy playing Iago as "whiting up." It just did not come up.

[Quote] you would be just fine with a family of four sisters who were supposed to be in their late teens or early twenties but one of them was played by an actress in her mid 70s

Gabrielle Carteris is laughing at you.

What if we had a new DL rule: have a permanent ongoing string of Follies threads, with arguments about clever OP titles, and see how long they can go to prove the undeniable durability of the topic--and banish mentions of Follies in the Theatre threads. Win win. Truly is there another topic anywhere on DL with as much longevity or more deserving of its own thread series? We could hire Ann Miller's hitman to enforce it.

I saw a community theater production of The Sound of Music a few years ago that featured six talented and charming Trapp children. A few were white. One was of African descent. One was Asian. One was Latino.

It turns out that the key to "So Long, Farewell" is not that the children are white. The key is that the children are charming and light up a bit when on stage. These kids did. They were just as charming as they were meant to be when wishing the guests a good night.

And everyone still escaped to Switzerland.

I was so pleased that the community theater and director had some balls and cast the best kids. I was glad the kids got the experience of being in something other than Show Boat. I was grateful that I didn't cross my arms over my chest and put my nose up in the air and huff and puff for two hours because I saw a black child in Austria. Austria!

[quote] And neither one of them wanted it to go on to Broadway. Steve had major problems with some of the casting

But he was good with Blythe Danner?

You're not comparing apples with oranges. The Roundabout wasn't a transfer. Sondheim couldn't nix it.

*You're comparing apples with oranges.

[quote]The Roundabout wasn't a transfer. Sondheim couldn't nix it.

Couldn't nix what? A production of FOLLIES? He owns the score. He can nix a production any time he wants until the contracts are signed.

Are you suggesting Sondheim should have prevented the Roundabout revival from opening? The man is both a creative AND a businessman. He's not a fool.

[quote] The Roundabout wasn't a transfer. Sondheim couldn't nix it.

It was a Broadway production. Usually creative people have control over major productions like Broadway, LA and London written into the rights agreements. They can also deny a production if a movie version is in the works or currently playing.

It’s actually interesting to see what some people put in their rights agreements. Tennessee Williams put into his that none of his plays could be performed in a segregated theater. August Wilson put into his that every effort must be made to use a black director.

And at what stage do you propose Sondheim should have nixed the Roundabout revival? I expect he enjoys bruised chorus boys.

R283, but one paper all the choices in the Roundabout production sounded great. He could not have known in advance what a hash Danner would have made of Phyllis and who would have expected that as brilliant an actress as Ivey would not deliver a great Sally.

Of course Sondheim would have approved. On paper it was head and shoulders above the Papermill production.

No, it was not.

On paper, if you're looking at the piece of paper with the budget on it, it was under capitalized and destined to be threadbare from Day One.

That's when Sondheim should have nixed it.

[quote] He could not have known in advance what a hash Danner would have made of Phyllis and who would have expected that as brilliant an actress as Ivey would not deliver a great Sally.

We’re not talking Patti LuPone and Betty Buckley. Neither Danner or Ivey had musical theater experience. Plus, this was the first major revival of the show.

I get that Sondheim wanted the cash, but it’s a bit hypocritical to nix experienced musical performers in favor of lesser talent.

r248, we need to remind you that La Chanze as Marta had no "Noo Yawk" accent in that Roundabout revival because the character has just arrived in New York when we first meet her.

Doesn't Sondheim favor actors (who sing... a bit) over singers?

I'm sure that "on paper" Blythe seemed a fabulous casting idea for Phyllis, probably even more promising than Alexis, who also had no proven musical comedy chops when she was cast in the original Broadway production. For that matter, Blythe had sung "He Plays the Violin" in the well-received film version of 1776, probably a harder song than anything Phyllis sings in Follies.

I have no explanation for why they cast Judith Ivey as Sally, a proven singer's role.

[quote] because the character has just arrived in New York when we first meet her.

Let me put it another way. The song “Another Hundred People” is intertwined into a scene where Marta is talking about clenched assholes. La Chanze didn’t have that in her. She was an excellent performer who was miscast. She would have been better playing April.

Well, weren't they going to cast MacLaine as Sally in the movie? She could never have sung it.

Poor Boyd Gaines. (And Malcolm Gets)

Are they the new Valerie Harper(s)?

I saw the first preview of the Roundabout's trainwreck FOLLIES. Judith Ivey was the best thing in it. By far. Sally is not an easy role, vocally. Early in the process, she sounded good. She's a fine actress and I was surprised at what a strong singer she was. Perhaps Ivey was not up to singing it 8 times a week.

I know from photos that along the way to opening, she got a new dress. It started out brown. And, yes, she really should have worn green. Or any other color than brown, except possibly black. From start to finish, the designs were not good. Even the poorest community theater could have produced the Weissman Theater set. And what were they thinking with all that Pepto-Bismol pink in Loveland?

After the first preview, I did not go back. It might have gotten better, but the huge problems could never be addressed. The production deserved every nasty thing Theoni Aldredge blabbed in the NY Times.

[quote]Well, weren't they going to cast MacLaine as Sally in the movie?

DORIS DAY!

At the time they cast Alexis, Follies was still being written so Sondheim could write to her strengths, just like he did with changing Yvonne DeCarlo’s song to fit her.

Yes, Danner had sung in the movie 1776. But that’s a long way from performing eight shows a week 30 years later.

And Sondheim had already seen what a mess Roundabout had made of Company. He knew better.

I feel like an inadequate Gay man as I’m barely aware of Follies let alone the extreme minutia surrounding it.

Boyd Gaines can't sing especially well. I don't recall Adrian Lester having much of a voice either. Bernadette wasn't really up to singing Sally either.

[quote] I feel like an inadequate Gay man as I’m barely aware of Follies let alone the extreme minutia surrounding it.

Well you need to stop flapping your gums and get to learning! You won’t get into Gay Heaven with zero knowledge of Follies. Chop Chop!

R287, Sondheim often favors performers not known for singing. Alexis Smith, Glynis Johns, Diana Rigg, Richard Kind, etc.

Ivey understudies the title role in Piaf on Broadway and Danner played Martha Jefferson in the film 1776. Both did a little other singing elsewhere. Not much to be sure, but certainly more than Alexis Smith had done.

Sondheim also likes prestige names and Danner and Ivey had that.

[Quote] I’m barely aware of Follies

Listen to the soundboard/audience recording of the OBC.

Just curious, do you think someone of Blythe's "stature" would have been required to audition for that Follies with a song? Or would she just have been cast based on her reputation and star power?

Offer only.

Patty Duke was the worst sounding Phyllis, surely.

I guess the Roundabout couldn’t afford Emma Thompson. She had done the musical Me and My Girl and Sondheim later approved her doing Sweeney Todd.

Poor Maria Friedman announced on TV that she was playing Sally at the Kennedy Center. Shades of Dolores Gray/Molly Brown.

I saw Judith Ivey go on as understudy to Jane Lapotaire in "Piaf", and she was very good. That featured quite a bit of singing, but she didn't do it 8x a week as understudy. She literally screamed the climactic high notes of "Losing My Mind" when I saw her in "Follies". A shame, cause she's a wonderful actress otherwise usually.

The should have let Dixie Carter apply her church lady soprano to the role.

Alice Ghostley as Hattie!

Blythe Danner appeared in MATA HARI which closed on the road and UP EDEN, a short-lived Off-Broadway musical in which she had a lovely soprano.

Didn't Blythe fuck up her voice by lowering it for a straight play role?

^^ Read the thread!

Sondheim was quite taken with the director of the Roundabout Follies. It was going to happen no matter what terrible choice the director was going to make.

R308, but again, Sondheim seems to just think that if someone sang in a show that means they can sing. He is protective of his songwriting, not how well they are sung. The most memorable performances in his shows (Lansbury in Sweeney Todd, Stritch in Company, Johns in Night Music) the musical values of the performance are not great.. If you look at his history of conflict with or resistance to performers, it is usually with the stronger singers.

[quote] Sondheim was quite taken with the director of the Roundabout Follies.

Was he a former basement boy?

[quote] If you look at his history of conflict with or resistance to performers, it is usually with the stronger singers.

He didn’t like Beth Howland very much in the Company documentary and she was no chanteuse.

Keith Nobbs can file my briefs ANYTIME.

Does Sondheim not really care for opera then? While not opera singers per se, the strongest singers in his shows off-hand over the years were probably Len Cariou ("Sweeney Todd" and "A Little Night Music"), Chris Groenendal (replacement Anthony in "Sweeney Todd"), Ron Holgate ("A Funny thing Happened on the Way to the Forum"), a Ben or two in revival "Follies", a few older and young Heidis in "Follies", Dorothy Collins and Barbara Cook ("Follies'), Mandy and Bernadette (sort of -- but would never really be considered legit) in "Sunday in the Park", Sally Ann Howes ("A Little Night Music"), Julie Andrews ("Putting It Together"), but otherwise Sondheim mostly doesn't like legit voices it seems. Feel free to add some others.

oh, Bryn Terfel and some other operatic baritones as Sweeney, but they weren't so good frankly

In one of those PBS specials, Sylvia Kaye Fine went on the attack against rock musicals, saying they lacked charm. Kettle.....

Marin Mazzie in "Passion"

I would consider George Hearn a stronger singer than Len Cariou.

Bryn Terfel was a terrible Sweeney, one of the weakest elements in that unnecessary production for PBS with Emma Thompson.

Emma sounded pretty horrendous, but at least she could act the part.

George Hearn, kind of, as replacement Sweeney, but not as good as Cariou

Sheila Hancock is another "character voiced" singer.

Dottie Loudon did Sweeney.

In her prime, Ellen Foley was a stronger singer than Bernie.

Regina Resnik in NY CIty Opera "A LIttle Night Music"

[quote] Regina Resnik in NY CIty Opera "A LIttle Night Music"

The stars aligned for that performance. She was the best Madame Armfeldt I’ve ever seen. Really perfection in every way.

Steve Elmore in "Company" had a really good voice (you can really hear it as the Captain on "Dames At Sea), though he doesn't have much solo singing in "Company". Donna McKechnie, very good voice, but not used too much in "Company" other than "You Can Drive a Person Crazy".

Here's Neely who's sung most everywhere....

Teri Ralston was a better singer than Donna M.

now if only she had those necklaces outlining her boobs. like she did at that one specific point in "Valley of the Dolls"

Donna M. was probably one of the strongest star dancers who sang soprano -- in the tradition of Marilyn Miller and Jessie Matthews (though without their ability to sell tickets on their names in their time).

Sondheim's buddy, Lee Remick, was another example of a good non-singing actress cast in his musicals.

Anyone Can Whistle, FOLLIES in Concert and probably more if she had lived.

Larry Kert ("West Side Story") and Nancy Dussault (both in "Side by Side by Sondheim")

I always thought Donna sounded like a church lady.

One of Donna McKechnie's early successes was landing the role of Philia in the National Company of FORUM. No real dancing required of her at all. Pretty. Fresh. Soprano. And acting ability.

Well, if what Donna does is called dancing. Frankly, that Turkey Lurkey thing looks more like aerobics.

[quote]In one of those PBS specials, Sylvia Kaye Fine went on the attack against rock musicals, saying they lacked charm. Kettle.....

I remember that. Leaning against the piano, as always, she concluded her tirade by saying that rock musicals "are NOT musical theater!"

She's right.

[quote]She's right.

She was a pill.

[quote] Leaning against the piano, as always, she concluded her tirade by saying that rock musicals "are NOT musical theater!"

Even Lawrence Welk did Evita.

Everybody did Evita before she met Peron

[quote]Even Lawrence Welk did Evita.

He was brilliant in the balcony scene, but that blond wig was so cheap-looking.

R341 Like some of those tongue-twisting things she wrote for Danny Kaye were songs!

Poor Baayork Lee. She can’t even get a gig directing A Chorus Line anymore. Stuck directing a concert version of Wicked.

It's not like there are companies of "A Chorus Line" going out right now during the pandemic. But she's memorized the staging and can do it in a pinch.

r334, do you mean like...

[quote] But she's memorized the staging and can do it in a pinch.

Yes, but the original show is now posted on YouTube minus a minute or two of the finale, which I’m fairly certain anyone competent can figure out.

The last hour of posts is like Sybil posting with all her personalities.

The people the people...

FOLLIES!

Oh! Calcutta! was a nude version of Follies.

How so, r355?

Paul Lynde as Matinee Hattie!

ELSIE FEST tomorrow in Brooklyn! Who all will be there?

Please report back if you go.

Miss Stella Deems!

Happy 91st birthday, Dead Ben Gazzara!

The Ripley shit seems to have died down which probably means no one is taking the fan girls claims seriously. At least I hope that’s what’s happening.

Jo

The cut Costco number...

Karen Wyman had a really solid voice. Did she ever flirt with Broadway?

Does Darren Criss have his own AutoTune machine he can use at Elsie Fest or will he have to rent one?

You idiot. Sondheim agreed to license the grand rights to Roundabout. That was it. He did not ask for casting approval, but did participate in the casting process. There’s plenty of evidence that Blythe Danner may have given a great audition. Not everyone hated her in the role.

Plenty of evidence... may have...

Hmm...

[Quote] Not everyone hated her in the role.

I expect Polly Bergen was pleased that Blythe stunk.

I'd love to know how many of the DL posters who insist that Blythe Danner was terrible in FOLLIES saw any more of her performance than a YouTube video of "Lucy and Jessie." It's hard for me to believe that anyone who saw the whole show in the theater thought she was anything like the biggest problem with the show.

R366 He wouldn't have needed to ask for casting approval, all authors have it by default under the Dramatists Guild

Back in the day... (Yipes, nearly 20 years ago.)

He was kinda hot then.

I saw her, r369. She wasn't the biggest problem, but she *was* one of many.

Is is too late to cast Babs McNair?

The poor man's Diahann, r374.

Did Carol(l) ever have her own TV show?

Oh, yes... that little sitcom. My show had my name in the title.

I was a doll, asswad!

"Bendable" - Is that a Richard Rodgers quote?

Barbara was from the wrong side of the tracks...

Bill Macy wasn't yelling for "Maude" when he was nude on stage and screen, though. Nor was he singing "The Right Girl".

Bill Macy, Alan Rachins and others in the original cast of "Oh! Calcutta!". Cue the "Follies" music!

There are some naked women there for our lesbian friends, too.

Fela!

[quote]If you like it, that does not mean it is good. It means you like it. that's all. It refers only to your tastes. Not at all to the talent of the performer you are considering.

r114 and I say the same to you.

Candide!

Ah! Back when men had nice, normal bodies.

Piaf!

R277 there is such a thing as miscasting, you know. The voice isn't the only consideration.

But 50ish Mary Martin is just fine.

But community theater gets a pass, because normally they don't have a large pool of talent. But professional productions should know better. Not every show can be cast like a Benetton ad.

[quote]One problem with the racial question is the notion that white people can only play white people, but people of other races can play whoever they want. Do we want equality now, or do we want a “pay back” period, where people of color are preferred for all jobs?

White people have never lacked for representation, most everything available as entertainment since I have been a child (I"m 61) and since my parents were children (they are 96 and 94) and all of my ancestors, have been dominated by white people. There is no need to interject white people into anything, they are already pervasive in images and media.

I wonder if the creators of all the white stories, intended for only white people to see them, that must be the case right? After all, how could anyone who isn't white enjoy these stories? Everyone in these stories is white, how could any non white person possibly enjoy these stories without any non whites in them as characters? So the authors MUST have intended these stories for white eyes only because the characters, ideas, themes, settings etc. would never make sense or be relatable to anyone who isn't white. You HAVE to be white or at least imagine yourself as white for them to have any impact.

Right?

R391, actually professional theaters have access to a large number of talented black, Latino, and Asian performers---so it really CAN quite easily be cast "like a Benetton ad."

I don't want to live in a world without Jerri Blank in A Raisin In The Sun.

God, the overwoke contingent on here is exhausting as fuck.

Well, she certainly navigated Glitter and Be Gay well, r386. But boring staging and she looked 50.

God, the white supremacist crowd on here that thinks they are fighting for preserving theatre as it should be is exhausting as fuck.

Barbara M made some lovely recordings.

Sondheim has often says he doesn't like opera, mostly because of the recitatives.

It is possible to be a Sondheim fan--even a proper Sondheimite--and disagree with him about any number of things, eg, opera, Brecht, Richard Rodgers, his taste in leading ladies, or even his choice of book writers.

It's a fandom. Not a religious cult.

Don't get me started on his wardrobe, r400!

I hope they're wearing masks, because they sure as hell aren't social distancing!

I've no idea what the upshot of the Alice Ripley controversy could be other than no one hiring her for any major roles in NY.

That seems horribly unjust. But I really don't know. I worked with her years ago....maybe 2003? And I liked her, remember nothing unpleasant or weird or sinister about her.

I guess time will tell. Do posters here think she'd be wise to answer her critics in some kind of interview or article? Or is it best to say no more? But I don't see any important stage work in her near future.

Are we forgetting her singing voice is dead and buried?

" But I don't see any important stage work in her near future."

I don't see any important stage work in *anybody's* near future, r404.

R403, Alice starred in Sunset Boulevard at the NSMT in Beverly, MA in September of 2019. I attended three performances and she and the entire cast were wonderful.

After that, she appeared in a production of the musical Baby, which was performed in an actual NYC apartment.

Alice dons the turban...

It's truly terrifying what's happening to Alice. Can you imagine that? Having your career threatened by nothing more than a typical mean girl lashing out because her own life sucks. It's like a fight from high school where you're still not sure what the actual conflict was.

R408 Can they do it to Tina Fey?

I don’t get why famous actors hang around the stage door and chat up fans. Sign the Playbill and move on.

They’re actors. An unhealthy need for attention and adoration is baked into the pie.

The fans hanging around stage doors are just as bad. They want the attention of being chatted up too.

So everyone can say how nice everyone else is. There are worse things in the world.

I believe Sondheim admired Richard Rodgers’ music—at least until The King and I—but he hated working with him on Do I Hear a Waltz.

Some magazine (TIME, maybe?) did a commemorative piece on Hammerstein, or perhaps R&H, a few years after DO I HEAR A WALTZ?, and Sondheim was quoted in it as saying that Hammerstein was a man of limited talent but infinite soul, while Rodgers was the opposite. Rodgers later said of Sondheim, "I saw him grow from a little boy into a monster."

I just said this on another thread, but am I the only one who thinks Rodgers is a primary model for Franklin Shephard (Inc)? If so, I don't think we need to debate whether they were part of a mutual admiration society.

Oh dear.

I actually meant "if not", as in, if I am not the only one...

r415

I always heard that David Shire was the model for F Shepard, with his Hollywood forays, etc.

Didn't the character come from the original play, which predates Shire, and was written before Rodgers became as famous as he is now?

I would say that Barbara McNair was less "the poor man's Diahann Carroll" than the "glammed-up Nancy Wilson." Their careers started at about the same time, and both were primarily singers, not actresses. And Wilson was the superior singer; McNair was mainly successful due to her looks.

[quote] Are you suggesting Sondheim should have prevented the Roundabout revival from opening? The man is both a creative AND a businessman. He's not a fool.

Then how did he let the movie rights to [italic]A Little Night Music[/italic] end up with Roger fucking Corman?

[quote][R308], but again, Sondheim seems to just think that if someone sang in a show that means they can sing. He is protective of his songwriting, not how well they are sung. The most memorable performances in his shows (Lansbury in Sweeney Todd, Stritch in Company, Johns in Night Music) the musical values of the performance are not great.. If you look at his history of conflict with or resistance to performers, it is usually with the stronger singers.

Now you make me wonder what could have been if Elaine Stritch had ever done anything for the Sherman brothers.

Elaine Stritch would be the world's most terrifying Mary Poppins.

She would have been great in [italic]The Happiest Millionaire[/italic]…

…as the alligator!

You know, as much as I loved [italic]Designing Women[/italic], the synopsis for that stage version sounds dreadful enough to be a DL thread. Or an episode of the [italic]Murphy Brown[/italic] reboot.

I wasn't aware that Nancy Wilson was "unglam."

R412 Speaking of stage door entitlement, Jac Yarrow (currently playing Joseph in the West End) posted a story on IG. They're not signing at the stage door, but on his way out he rolled down the car window to say thank you to the obsessives who were waiting outside anyway. One reached through the window to grab his head, and one - or maybe the same person - tried to open the car door.

[quote] Didn't the character come from the original play, which predates Shire, and was written before Rodgers became as famous as he is now?

Sort of, but the source material is very different than the musical.

All the names are different, and the Frank character (named “Richard Niles”) is a playwright, not a composer., and never goes to Hollywood. The Charlie character (“Jonathan Crane’) is a painter, but Mary (“Julia Glenn”) is still a writer. Beth and Gussie are one character.

It does end at his high school graduation, however.

R425, Nancy Wilson was often named on those annual Best Dressed Lists that were once published years ago.

That's what I thought.

Why does the character of Franklin Shepherd have to be based on only one person? I'm sure that the woods are filled with creative types going for the money.

[quote]They’re actors. An unhealthy need for attention and adoration is baked into the pie. and r411 not always the brightest

[quote] They’re actors. An unhealthy need for attention and adoration is baked into the pie.

and r411 not always the brightest

I always saw elements of Richard Rodgers and Hal Prince in Franklin Shepherd but I never thought the character is supposed to be based specifically on any one person.

Meanwhile, to distract from another 7,200 posts about Sondheim, has anyone seen [italic]Pass Over[/italic]. Or, to put it another way, has [italic]anyone[/italic] seen [italic]Pass Over[/italic]?

[quote]sorry messed up r4310

I will eagerly await r4310 to see how you messed it up r432.

I think the quote was in TIME or NEWSWEEK, r414, in a cover story on Sondheim around the time of Follies.

[quote] Sondheim was quoted in it as saying that Hammerstein was a man of limited talent but infinite soul, while Rodgers was the opposite

Mary Rodgers Guettel should have hunted Sondheim down and kicked his ass.

I don't think she disagrees r437

I saw beautiful Barbara McNair in a sweet if minor Broadway revival of The Pajama Game in the mid-70s. It was notable for its color-blind casting long before that term even existed. It was simply a non-issue and not played up particularly in the show's publicity. I think it was set in the 1970s.

Sexy Hal Linden was her leading man (he did not disappoint in his shirtless pajama bottoms at the curtain call) and Cab Calloway played Heinzie (the Eddie Foy role). Ladies of color played the Carol Haney and Reta Shaw roles, though I'm blanking on their names now.

I think the revival was well-reviewed, if not financially successful. But I mostly remember the great sexual chemistry between Linden and McNair.

R439 Sexy Hal Linden? Are you Linda Lavin by chance?

Tiger Haynes, Ben Harney and others in that r439

And ACL's Vicki Frderickk and the ever popular Mary Jo Catlett in that too

Plus this interesting note on that page: A closing notice had been posted for January 19, 1974; however the production remained open until February 3, 1974 when Cab Calloway, the show's star, gifted $50,000 to the production.

Ah, I was wrong about the Reta Shaw role as I see at r441's link that it was played by Mary Jo Catlett. I remember her now!

Lots of famous Broadway chorus names there, too.

Hal was third billed.

I always thought Marvin Hamlisch was one of the inspirations for Franklin Sheppard.

Hal Linden introduced Gwen and Chita on The Mike Douglas Show and I realized he would have been an amazing Billy Flynn. Too bad it never occurred.

Great chest on Hal Linden.

Woof!

If any musical theater composer was a corporation in 1981, it was definitely Marvin Hamlisch. Although it would be funny if Sondheim and Furth tried to slip in a little Barry Gibb just to really confuse everybody.

Hal Linden and Lee Remick in “I Do! I Do!”

Did Sondheim have anything to say about Hamlisch?

[quote] Did Sondheim have anything to say about Hamlisch?

I don’t know her. —S.S.

During the PJ Game run McNair was arrested in connection with a drug bust. Not great publicity for a broadway musical.

Hal Linden in "The Scottsboro Boys." The only time I've seen him on stage.

Agree that Mary Rodgers would have no objection to SS's comment, but Dorothy Rodgers didn't forget, and tried to block the Playwrights Horizons workshop.

1973-74 TPG revival...

Nice to see the underrated and overlooked Nancy Wilson getting some love.

Those of you who don't know her should investigate further. Perfect lazy, rainy Sunday music.

The casting in that Pajama Game revival wasn't color-blind. The black performers were playing black characters (who had been white in the original show).

The idea was to drop in on a factory that was very mixed-race, but that Hal LInden and Barbara McNair would have a sort of Romeo and Juliet romance.

I remember at one point she pointed out to him that there was a problem between them. In the original show's script, John Raitt said something like, Because I'm managwemnt and you're union?

But in the revival they changed his answer to refer to their two different races. It was an interesting way to rejuvenate a show that was 19 years old by then, but unfortunately after that one early exchange, the matter never came up again.

It wasn't a great revival. I saw it a lot because I had a friend in it. He played the lazy worker whom Hal LInden shoves in a very early scene, before he even meets McNair. My friend was a big guy, so his pretending to be a victim was a gag. He also understudied Linden and later went on to play gangster types in many a show. He was in Sweet Smell Of Success that way.

I always thought Hal Linden was "stealth sexy." Even on "Barney Miller." The way he looked at Wojo.... sigh.

He's 90 now, and was married for 52 years to the same woman. But I heard stories (probably here) about same-sex activity in his youth. Anyone got details?

Hal Linden was a guest on Gilbert Godfried's podcast. He seemed pretty with it. John Amos, OTOH, didn't have much to say for himself.

David Brummel had a good voice.

Linden was divorced about a decade ago, which I found interesting. At that age, why not just stay together and live apart.

One has excessive health difficulties and they don't want to lose their house etc.?

So is the Karate Kid a musical without a score? I've worked at that theater in St. Louis. We performed to tracks. No live music.

Is that where Joyce DeWitt did her GYPSY?

Linden kinda, sorta had a little tangential relation to "Chicago" in another way besides that "Mike Douglas Show" appearance -- his real last name was Lipschitz, used as one of the murderered folks (Alvin Lipschitz) in the "Cell Block Tango". When my folks were at some Catskills resort years ago (like the Concord or Kutchers), her Mom, Mrs. Lipschitz, was known by lots of folks up there. I saw him in the "Cabaret" revival as Herr Schultz, and he had a beautiful voice. Saw his understudy in that "Pajama Game", who was very good, and I recall who looked very nice shirtless too. Glad to see Hal's chest in a photo. I recall he looked pretty hot, too on one of those ABC "Battle of the Network Stars" in a bathing suit as well.

You’re stretching, R465.

r454, Dorothy Rodgers tried to block what Playwrights Horizons' revival? Do I Hear a Waltz?

I understand "Lipschitz" was a fairly common name among Jewish immigrants.

Tell me about it!

R466 But it's a good story, anyway. And it's nice to think about Hal shirtless or even naked back then, as I often did between and Wojo while watching "Barney Miller". Linden also got a break being understudy to Sydney Chaplin opposite Judy Holliday in "Bells Are Ringing". She helped him during their duet by positioning him to cheat facing outward more to the audience when it was his time to sing (no body mics then), and he said she was a terrrific person. He even appears in the movie version if you look -- he's the guy leading "The Midas Touch" number in the nightclub.

If you're interested in Sondheim's opinion of opera, his conversation with Ned Rorem at the 92nd Street Y is on YouTube.

[quote] heard stories (probably here) about same-sex activity in his youth

Hal Linden’s mansex adventures were discussed here a few years back, but it wasn’t just when he was young . Someone said they had sex with him in a hotel.

[quote]Is that where Joyce DeWitt did her GYPSY?

That was at the Bucks County Playhouse. I remember a review mentioning that at one point, a stagehand interrupted the proceedings by chasing a rat across the stage with a broom.

A friend went to see Pass Over on Thursday night and swore it was sold out, but she likes to lie when she disagrees with me about something in order to prove me wrong, so I don't buy it. They couldn't even get people to see it when it was in the basement at Lincoln Center. No one is gonna even pay TDF prices for it, especially during Covid.

r467, in the new James Lapine book, on SUNDAY, he says that Rodgers' widow was against the idea of the musical. She was head of the New York State Council of the Arts, and refused to contribute to the Playwrights funding. She thought that the idea of the show was "too commercial." ? (Oscar's widow gave, though.) Andre Bishop, then at Playwrights, wrote her a nasty letter sayingthat she was nuts if she thought the idea behind Sunday was commercial. She finally withdrew her resistance, but it was generally thought that Mrs. Rodgers was being a bitch because she didn't like SS.

She would have kvelled over his Guernica musical, I bet.

Eat shit, Dorothy.

From a TV special airing in the Netherlands right now-the Dutch cast of the upcoming production of Titanic:

And Come From Away with one of Broadway’s Elphabas Willemijn Verkaik:

Harry Belafonte hosts The Tonight Show.

Mae West.

Gershwin and Summertime.

Good lord. Is any language less melodic than Dutch? (no offense to the performers at R478 & R479).

They sound like they're hacking up hairballs.

From another thread. A show tune sung with cool elegance...

KISMET'll give ya fever!

Korean is much more soothing to the ear, r483...

How did the BORN YESTERDAY revival with Madeline Kahn and Ed Asner (RIP) fail with those two perfectly cast mega talents? Are there any eldergay theatre queens here who saw it?

I believe there's a bit of discussion in this thread, r487...

Speaking of Mae West, was Claudia Shear’s “Dirty Blonde” ever filmed/broadcast?

Nope, r489. I enjoyed it quite a bit.

If you want a color blind society, we should have mixed race plays and musicals.

Of course the contrarians will predictably bring out the “What about whites in A Raisin in the Sun??”

If it’s a play specifically about being a certain race and the experience of being that race, it only makes sense to keep the actors that race

I love Kahn but Billie Dawn wasn’t her role. As we was very good.

I would think that Kahn would be a bit shrill for Billie Dawn

R491 Wasn't there a white guy cast as Martin Luther King?

I agree, R483, Dutch is not a pretty language, sung or spoken.

This is from Diana & Sons. Yes, THAT Diana. And Meghan is also in it.

The guy playing Aladdin could be hunkier but the Genie looks and sounds fab (despite singing in Dutch):

And finally the Spring Awakening kids. Melchior is a hot Indonesian.

For no reason...

Tony winners of the 1970s, r498? (Except for Lansbury in Dear World, which won in 1969) .

[quote]Are there any eldergay theatre queens here who saw it?

This is DL. There are probably eldergay theater queens who saw Judy Holliday and Paul Douglas in the original.

I was in it in high school, r500. I played Devery the alcoholic lawyer. The following summer I saw Sandy Dennis and Gary Merrill. My friends and I talked with Sandy after the show for about 10 minutes. I told her which part I had played and she said it was the best part in the play and wished she could play it. But no...

OMG! How was Sandy Dennis?????

She was great, r502. It's was like she underplayed the classic Judy bits and found her own laughs.

Thanks R503 ! That’s one performance I would love to have seen.

I had no idea Keith Nobbs had left the business. This is why I love DL.

Keith is such a great guy, and so talented. What a loss for theatre, but it looks like he is thriving in his studies, and I wish him all the best and don't blame him for leaving the biz.

He told me that Stockard Channing really kept her distance from everyone in the cast of LION IN WINTER, communicating with them only when they were on stage. Said it wasn't a great experience as a result. (And she was good. Not great, but good.)

Bobby Goldman definitely served up LION and FOLLIES as a package deal for Todd Haimes. And she loved torturing Cameron Mackintosh. LOVED it. Even made him cry once.

Matt Cavenaugh was sexy as hell but no great actor, and Bobby Steggert had talent but never had star quality, but Keith Nobbs was a great actor and had that special x factor. Plus he's incredibly nice and gregarious. We've lost a good one with him.

Yeah, it is a shame he's left the biz, but he gave it 20 years and I guess he either wasn't getting enough work or he wasn't getting enough fulfilling work. His career never seemed to advance the way it should have for someone with his talent.

Did you fuck him, R505?

I became very aware of him when this picture ran in the NYTimes.

I stumbled upon Matt Cavenaugh and Jenny Powers' wedding reception a few years ago.

Meeting a friend for lunch at Boston hotel, I noticed their names on a sign outside a function room as I walked by.

Couldn't resist . . . I opened one of the doors and observed the reception in full swing for a couple of minutes.

Jenny, by the way, is the granddaughter of Dave Powers, who was JFK's right hand/pimp.

This is how Broadway is promoting its return

Sandy Dennis died far too young. She could be doing a lot of great performances in her old age.

...and we could debate [italic]forever[/italic] if she's a Sally or a Hattie or a trans Buddy or a ghost Carlotta or a non-ageist young Phyllis or a Stella and then kill ourselves.

Has the hot James Carpinello, Keith Nobbs' co-star from STUPID KIDS. also left the business? Am I remembering correctly that Cheyenne Jackson replaced him in XANADU when James suffered a roller skating accident? Or was James replaced as the lead in the SATURDAY NIGHT FEVER musical debacle?

[quote]She would have kvelled over his Guernica musical, I bet.

Lordy, R476, don't give him ideas.

Well, R413, I actually meant that adaptation of those Spanish films Sondheim adapted and abandoned. Didn’t one of them have something to do with the Spanish Civil War?

I do believe it deals (metaphorically) with the aftermath, R476.

At any rate, you are witty!

R512-Both. He was just too gay for the biz. I believe he's NPH's houseboy.

Agree, r510. She was so sweet to us after the performance. We saw it at the first summer stock theater (opened in 1890). I also saw Shelley in Gamma Rays there.

Carpinello is still working, mostly television. And he was not replaced in Saturday Night Fever. He was replaced after the out of town tryout for Hairspray in 2002 with Matt Morrison, and as mentioned above, had to leave Xanadu because of the injury sustained.

Carpinello didn't do the out of town tryout for Hairspray. He was in the workshops, but left before Seattle, I think to do a film. It was a shame, as from seeing him in the workshop, he was vastly better than Morrison, with more of a satiric edge. Morrison opened it in Seattle.

You're right. I always get that mixed up. Carpinello is wonderful, but I think his goal has been television, and can you blame him?

He and Nobbs together in Stupid Kids.... mmmm

R501, Were Sandy Dennis' front teeth as large in person as they appeared on the screen?

I read that she had them filed down before moving to NYC from Nebraska, but on film they were still prominent.

Sandy and Dick Cavett attended high school together. He has said that she hardly spoke to anyone back then and remained aloof for four years.

Sandy was what I call "character actress pretty". They can achieve pretty on camera and beautiful (if the role calls for it) on stage. She was with Gerry Mulligan (who she termed "a handsome man") for nine years and Eric Roberts ("a pretty boy") for five. According to Wiki, she was bisexual.

Gerry Mulligan was a heroin addict who also fucked Judy Holiday. He didn't really have high standards aesthetically.

Sandy Dennis became a big enough movie star in the late 1960s after winning her Featured Oscar for Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf? to be able to carry a film on her name alone: Up the Down Staircase, The Fox and Sweet November were a few of them. How many character actresses in the late 60s could make that claim?

Gerry Mulligan was very cute when he was young. But the ravages of time and drugs really made him look like a mess.

Weren't most of those films huge flops, R524?

I don't think Up the Down Staircase and The Fox were flops.

I liked Carpinello’s take on the role in Xanadu (self-obsessed douchebag) as opposed to Jackson’s (just dumb).

R522-While Roberts is primarily gay.

I heard from a friend of Sandy's that Eric used to rough her up. Sad if true. She was a great reader. She and and I and this friend went to a book fair together. That afternoon, she got quite drunk and flashed her nipples to show me how much she loved Willa Cather.

When I read Willa Cather I don't think of women's breasts but I haven't read everything of hers.

Stop thinking of their breasts and start thinking of their nipples r531.

All will become clear.

Ohhh, I really like Elaine's Reno.

Please god the next thread’s title won’t include Willa Cather’s nipples.

Nice to hear those songs sung by somebody other than Miss Broadway Bland. And God knows I'm not talking about Lupone.

Elaine’s pitch sucks.

I know, r535. Reno needs to have brassy pipes with a signature sound, Being tops in taps doesn't compensate for not having them.

At least Sutton can dance, unlike Two-Left-Feet LuPone.

And sorry, but it’s the anti- vax queen, Missy Osnes, who owns the title “Miss Broadway Bland.”

For some reason I don't believe Reno was created as a tap dancing role. Unless the Merm was holding out on us.

Well, Patti delivered where it counted, r538. I certainly don't find Sutton bland, but she's not a Reno.

I know that Sutton Foster dismissal is the order of the day on the DL, with "She's not a Reno" a regular refrain.

I'd love someone to explain what "a Reno" is that she's not. (If your only idea of "a Reno" is Patti LuPone, you are excused from answering.)

Reno's a brassy broad. Sutton is a bit forced in trying to act that.

That brassy persona was part and parcel of Ethel, Mitzi, Chita, and your Miss Ann Miller.

Fascinating how tastes differ -- I saw Foster twice in the part, and both times the brassiness felt perfectly natural to me. Certainly her singing style is nothing if not brassy -- even more so as the years have gone on.

To be clear, I've seen most of Foster's roles in New York -- I think the only major ones I missed were LITTLE WOMEN and that S&M play she did Off-Broadway -- and I've found her good or excellent in all of them, with the sole exception of THE WILD PARTY. That was the only time I've seen her when I found that she was stretched far beyond what the role demanded -- gifted as she is, nothing about her was right for Lippa's Queenie, even with adjusted keys, etc.

So it shall be written, so it shall be done r534

Mitzi who, r543? Surely not Gaynor?

[quote] For some reason I don't believe Reno was created as a tap dancing role.

It wasn’t. But the last two Broadway revivals turned it into a tap dancing role. You can bet that will be the way it’s done from now on.

The WIlla Cather Nipple is one of the specialty cocktails at the Corn Palace in South Dakota

Yes, Mitzi Gaynor, r546. Years ago ...*many* years ago, she was on Johnny Carson and sang and tapped Anything Goes. She was promoting the production of it that she was performing in at....I don't remember where. So she has played Reno. It woulda fit her fine, Mitzi's a brassy broad.

Mitzi Gaynor did indeed play Reno, in the second attempt at a national tour of the Lincoln Center Theater production. (The first attempt had Leslie Uggams, Rex Smith, and Rip Taylor; Uggams ultimately wound up as Patti LuPone's replacement in the NY version.)

Mitzi was of course also seen in a 1956 movie musical called "Anything Goes," but it bore little relationship to the stage version and there was no Reno Sweeney.

Mitzi's tour was in 1989, and she was by all accounts dreadful.

They needed to give Reno to Helen Lawson.

Spill, spill, R551!

While I do love Sutton, she’s fantastic yet forgettable. She never leaves any lasting impression in anything

That’s exactly what Christian Borle said, r554!

Since you asked for it, a sample review:

Sutton leaves the impression of there being nothing there. I went to see Millie with an open mind. I knew nothing about her. The mediocrity spilled from the stage and filled the theater. Foster was very very aggressive in her blinding nothingness. Like very white tooth veneers.

"... the innapropriate and inane performance of Gaynor, whose chirpy coquettishness in the role of Reno Sweeney could give both nightclub singers and evangelists a bad name."

Frankly, that review made Mitzi sound utterly divine as Reno.

Foster is the quintessence of blandly competent mediocrity. She should be teaching in a Midwest state university theater department.

I feel like I'm the only Sutton fan on here. I haven't seen her do a whole lot. I saw Millie, which I thought would have been worthless without her and Harris, and I saw The Drowsy Chaperone at the Ahmanson pre-Broadway and the whole thing enchanted me, but I thought Sutton was fantastic. I have missed her in everything else in theater, but I saw all of Bunheads, which I really enjoyed, and I watched Younger until I stopped caring somewhere in the third season, but I liked her in that.

I want to see more of her, but the only thing I do wish I'd seen her in that I missed is Violet. Young Frankenstein and Shrek didn't interest me at all, and I thought she was wrong for Reno Sweeney, so I skipped that, and I wasn't in town for Sweet Charity, which I heard was awful, and I'm not a 12 year old girl, so Little Women held zero interest.

I'm not a huge fan of The Music Man, and I saw the Bierko/Luker production, which was fine, but it didn't leave me wanting to see it ever again. I also think Sutton is wrong for Marian.

Maybe it was that she made such a dynamic impression on me in Millie. The show was so turgid, but I felt like I was watching a star in the making (and I guess I was). So I have a soft spot for her.

R561, Sutton was superb in the Encores! production of Anyone Can Whistle with Donna and Raul.

That review from Orlando was critical, informed, and succinct. It’s leagues better than anything that Ben wrote for The NY Times.

I saw that tour of Anything Goes with Gaynor. Yes, Gaynor was way too old and she could have played Billy's mother. But the strengths of that Lincoln Center production remained, and the camp value with Gaynor was off the charts, so I had a good time anyway.

I almost saw Rip Taylor's nipples once. Don't ask.

Why would we ask about an "almost" r565?

[quote] Foster is the quintessence of blandly competent mediocrity. She should be teaching in a Midwest state university theater department.

And Scott Ellis can run that MMU (Midwest Mediocrity University) theater department, with Kathleen Marshall as his assistant chair. Other teachers there could include Kelli O'Hara, Will Chase, Jessie Mueller and Gavin Creel.

With Christine Ebersole as the Dean Of Students.

Or is she running the religion department? Poly Sci?

No, that’s run by Chairwoman Tonya Pinkins, R569.

Is there room for me on the faculty?

Faculty? Rob you're the fucking Dean! (And Charlie Williams cleans the frat-house latrines...with his tongue.)

I watched some Shakespeare this morning...

Leave Charlie be. He's stopped fucking Rob and is now in a committed relationship with Ryan Steele.

Charlie doesn't need Rob for a dancing gig anymore, so bye bye Robbie.

and how's that Sunset Blvd movie going, Rob?

Oh God!

Sutton WAS good in that Anyone can Whistle.

[quote] Leave Charlie be. He's stopped fucking Rob and is now in a committed relationship with Ryan Steele.

Again? How long will it last this time?

How much gin and regret are the producers of Funny Girl imbibing this morning?

[quote] The real Monica Lewinsky is a producer on Impeachment, but it’s hardly a flattering portrait of her, either. Feldstein plays her like the dizzy heroine of a rom-com: a squeaky-voiced, lovestruck gal who can’t stop obsessing over her man. (Feldstein doesn’t look much like Monica, either.) The scenes with her and Clive Owen’s Bill Clinton are admittedly compelling, in a seedy romance novel kind of way, and Owen does a decent job of capturing Bill’s aw-shucks charm. But ultimately, the scenes seem ripped from a Lifetime movie, and they’re a bit too easy on old Bill, too, letting him claim to be an innocent victim of conservative persecution.

Has anybody been discussing the upcoming Encore presentations the most dismal in its history?

I was a charter subscriber and bailed this year. Told them what I thought of the sheer mediocrity of the line-up.

Why did Encores cancel their post-modern take on Thoroughly Modern Millie? Surely it would have sold more tickets than The LIfe and The Tap Dance Kid and maybe even Into the Woods with high schoolers. I get why they canceled Love Life though I'm sorry they did.

[quote]they’re a bit too easy on old Bill, too, letting him claim to be an innocent victim of conservative persecution.

Perhaps not innocent, but certainly a victim of conservative persecution.

Love Life is the one they should have kept, r582. Dropping is was a big “fuck you” to the devoted Encores fans and subscribers. It was Lear what’s her name’s “my way or the highway” declaration.

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1953, a revival of "Oklahoma!" opened at City Center.

Flo Henderson and Barbara Cook, r585!

Aaron Tveit looked alarmingly thin performing at the US Open opening ceremonies last evening.

The devoted Encores' fans and subscribers are dead or dying. Though I can't imagine anyone in good health wanting to see The Tap Dance Kid, The Life or another revival of Into the Woods.

[quote]Flo Henderson and Barbara Cook, R585!

David LeGrant, who played Ali Hakim in that 1953 production, had married Barbara Cook the previous year. He later became an acting teacher.

Of course it is. Viertel is gone and diversity is in.

R589-And son Adam just passed away a few weeks ago.

But Thoroughly Modern Millie was actually Lear de Bessonet's (the new AD) project, she was directing it. So it's perplexing it was dropped.

Not that I wanted to see it. I wanted to see Love Life!

[quote]But Thoroughly Modern Millie was actually Lear de Bessonet's (the new AD) project, she was directing it. So it's perplexing it was dropped.

Too many book awkward book problems, perhaps?

That was the whole point of it, r593, to try and fix those pesky book problems.

I didn't know that, R591.

[quote] And son Adam just passed away a few weeks ago.

R591, Adam LeGrant is still very much alive at 62.

R596, Indeed he is.

[quote]Adam LeGrant is still very much alive at 62.

He's very much dead.

Bajour?

BAJOUR!

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