Rude Gays

They think you’re trying to pick them up.

they are taking the walk of shame, and don't want anyone to notice them..........hehe

Amen to r2. As if.

Mind your own business, OP. Shut your yap when you're out and about.

I have the same experience. I’m not trying to pick you up. Just a quick hello nothing more. It’s early, the start of a new day. An innocent social nicety. Get over yourselves.

It's the same dynamic that I encounter at the gym, of which 90% or more of the members are gay. I see these guys every day. It makes sense to smile, give a head nod or at least make eye contact when when encountering each other. But mostly they don't. I chalk it up to insecurity. It takes a little self confidence to acknowledge another person, and many gay men don't have much.

Let's talk about RUDE. I was fucking a guy once at a bathhouse with a condom, as I'm fucking him he says - I LIKE IT RAW. I stop fucking him and he leaves- WELL. Admittedly he was really good looking- slim, dirty blond hair, straight seeming, 3Oish. He was in a position to give me an attitude and to be honest I was flattered he was interested in me to begin with.

Mmm, in the case of younger ones, I think there is an idea, promoted by Drag Race etc., that rudeness, arrogance and cruelty are what characterise the élite. Lots of gay guys just walk around with a snide expression and their head flicked back. I don't know where it comes from; maybe it is from the pressures of going up gay. That wasn't the effect that having an anti-gay family had on me, but everyone's different.

Defense mechanism. Straight people and lesbians don't experience the unrelenting hatred growing up that gays do. Blocking everyone out that doesn't involve an immediate need or want is a coping strategy to survive in this increasingly anti-gay male world.

What R1 said.

Maybe it's the way you say it.

Gay guys tend to be insecure. So they establish brittle exteriors and convince themselves that anyone who says "hello" is trying to suck their dick.

.I go out of my way to smile and say hello to just about any gay guy whether in the grocery store, or anywhere. I do it because I want to see their reaction. 90% of the time they say nothing. It just proves over and over again that they're extremely insecure and assholes., They are definitely nice normal gays that will engage with you. You’ll find them outside the gay ghetto

What R9 said. Too many gay men, especially very femme ones who are younger, haven't yet learned to cope. Thus, the anger and defensiveness. It's a reflection of how they feel. I see it in many younger gays and now it's creeping into the straight white beta-types as well. The world is a rougher place due to more insecurity, they aren't yet established, they may never be established, they are afraid and so this is how they go about their sad lives.

Social media continues to destroy humanity regardless of sexual orientation and gender identity, and the more liberal society becomes, the angrier the world gets because change comes too quick and being canceled for not keeping up brings out even more fear. Self hatred in the gay community has taken on a feeling of guilt and revenge against anybody who has good self esteem and enjoys every aspect of their life. The bitterness of these self hating men and others trying too hard to be woke into eagerly going out of their way to cancel anyone who is not like them. This is obvious not only gay clubs and gyms and even on the street, but blatantly toxic in the work environment as well. You can become socially aware and respectful of others, but forced political correctness is far more dangerous than we realize. As a society, we are imploding into becoming robotic and apathetic, and it's putting us under a control that will eventually cause society to collapse. What the OP has noticed is just one of many symptoms that will cause Orwellian like consequences.

Refuse 'shade.' Refuse 'reading.' Refuse all the anti-social behavior. Put your foot down and demand to be treated respectfully. The insult humor is fine for Don Rickles, but not for lives. Not to use against one another.

It is a real time Fat check, OP hon

Are you new?

This should go on that thread of unpopular, unPC beliefs but RuPaul’s drag race DOES propagate nasty, self hatred, rude, mean, I’m better than you behavior. Much like DL I suppose.

If they could say, "I have a boyfriend" they would.

R18, personally, I draw a distinction between the bitchiness on DL and the toxic behaviour seen on Drag Race. My bf is afraid that DL will turn me into a bitter person but I genuinely think that there is something to be said for getting the bitchiness out of your system on an anonymous online forum where most of the subjects will never see it VERSUS enacting it in your real life. From what I've seen, the round-the-clock bitchiness and all-encompassing cynicism is more of a thing with younger gays, so it is culturally determined as well as being a defence mechanism. IMO.

R16 - bullshit. When I was jogging and had a six-pack before the pandemic and before I came out here, a lot of young queens like that turned bitchy when they saw me with my older exes or saw I wasn't interested. They are all about insecurity. A happy (or even "comfortable in his own skin") gay man, be he a fit middle-aged top or even an older and chubbier but secure guy, ruffles them. Hell, even my middle-aged sister saying a friendly hello ruffles them. They are kinda like Trump...when you are that insecure and, I suspect, uneducated in terms of being a polite human being, you react, to quote Bill Maher (who I don't like much) like "a whiny little bitch". Seriously, these idiots contribute to damaging stereotypes about gay men.

I always say gay men would be the worst snooty, curtain-twitching, Christian conservative, status symbol busy-bodies in town... if they weren't a despised minority.

The average age of the posters on this thread is 87.

[quote] My bf is afraid that DL will turn me into a bitter person but I genuinely think that there is something to be said for getting the bitchiness out of your system on an anonymous online forum where most of the subjects will never see it VERSUS enacting it in your real life.

Those drag queens would probably draw the same distinction between their drag personas/television performances/acting and “real life.” In your case, who you are (when others are watching/when you’re not anonymous) is the performance. Your “real life” is the performance. The anonymous bitch is who you really are.

Most gay men learn early the hard way to never relax and let your guard down outside the home. This level of stress in life is something straights could never comprehend.

R24, glorifying toxic behaviour in public is nothing to be proud of. Society works better when people try (more or less) to be nice even if they may have private misgivings. Also, the more pretentious drag queens would tell you that the lines between art and life are very blurry in that world, so, yes, the unpleasant behaviour does bleed into their "private lives".

Nonsense OP. Try a hale and hearty "Top of the morning you" and maybe add a heel click.

Scream out .. I dont wanna fuck you fat pig.

Anyone who walks down the street parroting “Hi! Good Morning!” to a bunch of strangers is a fool.

You aren’t being “nice.” You are forcing a social interaction and an expectation on a stranger who owes you neither the time nor the courtesy.

OP, your kind of attitude and assumptions are why people like me have a hell of a time trying to socialize in the gay community. I have ADHD and am autistic. I interact with the world and process things differently than you. I have trouble vocalizing in certain situations, and may stutter or not respond immediately when someone says hi. I'm usually in my own head when I'm out for a walk.

So now, in your situation, without even knowing me, other gay men jump to the conclusion that I am a snob and rude. I'm used to this. It still sucks though. This happens to disabled people in the gay community. Deaf people could tell you. Knew a deaf gay guy once who was labelled an "asshole" and a snobby bitch by other gays because one of them tried talking to him bedside him at the bar and he didn't respond. The guy finally got his attention by WAVING his hand in front of the deaf guy's face. The deaf guy was startled and turned and said "sorry, I'm deaf and can't hear you!" The other guy thought he was being a smartass so he turned and walked away. This ia what disabled gay people deal with. Because we don't socialize & interact "normally", we get ostracized & people say we're a "rude snob". Even though we're not.

Yeah they think you're trying to pick them up and they want to signal that they're too good for you. Don't even look at them. It drives people with inflated egos nuts.

An ugly twink did that to me at the big WeHo Starbucks next to TJ's when I said hello as I was sitting down and he looked at me like "OMG what's wrong with you?! Ew!" I immediately called him out and said "Stop that. Don't do that. Like I'd hit on you? Please. I'm being polite because I want you to move your chair so I can slide into that seat over there."

He was shocked, and then someone I was friendly with a table over asked "What's wrong?" and I told him what was going on "He was acting like I'm crazy for saying hello, when I was just trying to get him to scoot over... So fucking rude lol" etc. The ugly twink was mortified.

Good for you, R31/R32. The only way that people will ever move on from behaviour that has been tolerated/promoted is through being corrected.

I actually just came back from 2.5 hours at the gym, and I’m reading these replies. It makes sense to me that they feel this is how elite people behave. Kind of like how butch lesbians and hyper-butch gays think being mean and pushy is somehow masculine.

Responding to the person who lives with autism and ADHD above. While I acknowledge that you struggle with these things, I can have the same reaction, usually because I’m shocked when another gay man is actually polite! I also don’t think EVERY gay man I encounter is differently abled and lives with the same experiences that you do. Sometimes being rude is being rude.

I also forgot to sign my last reply, that was so rude of me! I think it’s R34.

R34- In my experience it’s the QUEENY gays that tend to be the nastiest.

R25 - it's interesting you say that because that is something I personally agree with 100%. In fact, as per an earlier thread where I mentioned that as a woman alone my roommate preferred to have a man along on the trip, she said the same. A French poster mentioned that France is safe for women and indeed it mostly is, but she also said women can't and shouldn't let their guard down once out of the house without a man. Sadly, there are still assholes who see women and gays not as human, but as some prey. It's a thing that breeds anger and resentment in the potential recipient of this odious Neanderthal behavior which, lately, has been fueled by the right wing.

It may also have something to do with the overall poor socialization of the younger generation. I’ve noticed that when I say “Hello” in passing to people in my apartment building, people my age (I’m in my late 50’s) smile and say “Hello” back, whereas younger people, male and female, ignore me, look startled, or look at me as if I just threatened to mug them.

Have any of you LGBTQs ever encounter this: a random straight couple approaches you on a path or sidewalk, silent and staring a hole through you (sometimes holding hands). You don't want to be rude or creepy/silent, so in passing you meet their gaze and say something like 'hey'. And they say nothing?

This has happened to me dozens of times. So much so that I no longer speak or look at a couple.

[quote]Typically everyone says “good morning” in return. Except gay men. What’s their problem? My theory is that these people were not raised well.

Maybe they don’t want to be accused of mugging you, Kevin Spacey.

Most of the justifications here are total BS. If some hot porn star said good morning to them, you can bet they’d respond. This “bad bitch” aloof diva BS is almost always antisocial behavior or just plain rudeness.

I’m over 40, and the use of simple eye contact is enough for me. Isn’t eye contact a staple of non verbal gay male communication? Your eyes meet, you either carry on, or maybe smile. We smell our own.

I look 25.

[QUOTE] My theory is that these people were not raised well.

You are such a simpleton

This was one of the first lessons I learned when I came out a million years ago. Not that hets don’t exhibit this behavior, but it is different for gay men in my experience. I assumed this “gay community” I had heard so much about would be warm and welcoming. Lol. I mistakenly believed that this “community” would be as cohesive as other minority groups. Eventually I did experience a “community,” but it was something I had to find. The best example of what I had hoped for were my years in San Francisco. I heave heard many LGBT folks over the years claim there is no such thing as a “gay community,” I do believe that this was their experience, but I pity them. Once I found my place in this alphabet tribe, my quality of life vastly improved. I hope that all gaylings can somehow have a similar experience.

Are you fat or old OP?

Gays are bitchy. Um, where are you posting. Fuck them and carry on to find your tribe.

Regarding the community comment, it’s not that I think they should respond because we’re part of the same gay community. I want them to respond because they’re part of my city and neighborhood, like everyone else does.

0/10. You live in a flyover state and have never been to CA.

They think you are hitting on them and also think you are physically beneath their level, so they ignore you. As simple as that.

I don’t want what they’re selling either, not into guys who look like they get in shape by using an elliptical machine for hours. More into guys who to CrossFit or functional fitness. Get your point though, sad.

They are probably suffering from Pretty Privilege and have a photogenic coin slot. It’s not their fault.

Photogenic coin slot… vomit.

Bitchiness is part of our culture. It’s more reminiscent of mean girls in high school than that of someone traumatized by life - see R9. Other comments on here have talked about how the more dominant trait in our is insecurity, and that those who demonstrate comfort in their own skin and confidence seem to rattle the majority.

They know you're an eldergay and so you don't deserve respect, let alone acknowledgement.

CELESTE HOLM (at the opening read-through on the set for "All About Eve"): "Good morning, Miss Davis!"

BETTE DAVIS: "Shit! Manners!"

OP, the proper response when you don't receive a "hello" back is a sharp and angry hiss.

[quote] Blocking everyone out that doesn't involve an immediate need or want is a coping strategy to survive in this increasingly anti-gay male world.

Poor sweet darling baby!

This is not something new. I've noticed this for forever.

When you're at the bottom of society, you do ANYTHING to show you deserve some respect, so some gays pretend they're above everyone.

When I say "HI," I'm just being friendly, not trying to flirt. Yet, some treat it as a way to wave me off.

Just silly

If OP were pretty, none of these humiliating acts would have happened.

One thing I like about small-town life is the general friendly regard that people have for strangers. IMO, it's nice.

It's just a hello, a nod of the head, a smile. Not a huge deal to me, and nice.

I can understand being apprehensive about initiating the "hello," but returning a hello - how hard is that.

In other countries, saying good morning, good evening, etc is a sign of having manners. You are looked down for not engaging in or knowing basic social etiquette. It took me a while to get used to Americans who are often selectively polite—only friendly to people they know/need something from. This is not all Americans, obviously, but it took awhile to get used to not taking it personally when saying hello out of common courtesy in public situations and being ignored. Another one is how people will go up to two people talking and only engage the person they know/need to talk to and pretend the other person doesn’t exist. I don’t get it.

I love when I visit my cousin in a suburb of NYC--in a smallish town. Everyone is always saying hello as they pass by.

Young guys in West Hollywood have always been that way. I've lived in the Hollywood Hills and neighboring areas my entire life. WeHo has always been rude and cliquish. That's why I've chosen to live in the friendly gay hills of Los Feliz/Silverlake for the last 31 years; I say hello or smile and get a similar friendly response. I stay away from WeHo no matter what.

R61 - That is awful, those types of people who’ll only acknowledge the person they came to talk to.

A lot of this rudeness stems from insecurity.

At my previous job, when I was the new person, a few people were ridiculously standoffish (rude). I'm working in the cubicle next to you, for God's sake.

Anyway, I didn't become Most Popular there, but the supervisors & support staff ended up liking me to a reasonable degree. Only then did some of these rude people decide to be friendly to me. Call me petty, but I don't forget the initial treatment.

My M.O. is to be friendly off the bat. I can always dial it back if I end up not liking someone. It's harder to go the other way: unfriendly to friendly. IMO.

I live in Deepwell in Palm Springs. Almost all people I encounter on my morning bike ride through the streets act as if I don't exist. I stopped trying to say hello. That is a bridge too far, apparently. Very few, like two people will give a slight wave, mostly I get no response. The old women walk in the mornings there and are in a constant state of the pissed-off face. The men, when in couples rarely do anything like a wave, and a verbal hello is out of the question. The people from out of town, and yes, you can tell never wave and never say hello.

It is the most unfriendly and tight-assed neighborhood I have ever been in.

r61: It all depends on what part of the USA you are in.

In some parts of the country (mostly smaller towns) people often say hello on the street.

Women rarely smile or say hello to strangers anymore, but I've been told this is because they are afraid of being harassed or raped if they do.

The trick is not to take it personally if no one says hello back.

A few years back, I went to an open house for an apartment. As I was arriving, the gay owner was talking to the realtor.

The second the owner realized I too was gay, he automatically went into "act like I'm above him" mode. The realtor saw that it wasn't sitting well with me, and quickly ushered the owner out (Owners, NEVER be at your own open house--that's what you're paying the realtor for). The realtor saw my annoyed facial expression, realized exactly why, and tried to smooth everything out after the owner left.

It left a bad taste in my mouth. Although the apartment was fine, I crossed it off my list because I figured the asshole owner would be a nightmare to work with.

I always feel I can change how a town acts if I say hi when I walk by strangers

“Only then did some of these rude people decide to be friendly to me. Call me petty, but I don't forget the initial treatment.”

I have experienced this and seen this—mostly among fraus. They will hate your guts because they can, and only change when someone with more professional/social clout gives you credibility. It’s why I will never work in a principally female work environment.

I also never forget and realized how shallow these people are. They are like the unattractive queens who hang out with better looking guys as if they are pretty by proxy and do nothing but talk shit and look down on others.

No, it just makes you uglier.

I’ve had that happen to me as well—the minute they realize you are gay, it’s like a flipping a switch and they go from pleasant to pissy diva. I don’t get it. Is it like how women always somehow work their boyfriend/husband into an initial convo? I hate when women do that.

Low self esteem

I always thought Rudy Gay was really cute.

Ran into two of them at Costco this morning (Colchester VT). Said Hi, my husband smiled at them. You'd think we were invisible. Not a nod, not a smile. Just a pained, rictus expression, and they slithered on toward the refrigerated section.

Defacturd/GGG thread

R75, I've noticed the same thing about VT gays. By the way, when did Pearl's (bar) in Burlington close?

The look that says “OMG how embarrassing for you!”

Maybe there were raised in a barn, as opposed to a shit brick House being forced to wear little girls dresses and being humiliated about their puny cocklet by their father.

OP with his hag and roomie in Weho.

2006, r75. A Pappa Joe's pizza place replaced it. I've heard people say "Oh go to Red Star! They're gay friendly!" I don't want that. I want a gay bar. There was one in Winooski, but a DJ didn't like the name "Mister Sister" and it kept the heat on them until they closed.

If Gene Kelly was my “roomie”, we’d be doing more that just dancing. I bet he was fun.

You guys are way too passive. A total stranger is rude to your face and you don't tell them to eat shit and die? They already think you're crazy for saying hello, may as well tell them what you really think.

It's a European pb too...

Maybe he was oriental and didn’t understand you

It's not easy being gay. I get people looking at me like they hate me, like I am disgusting, fat, ugly, shouldn't even be seen on the street. Then I left West Hollywood.

All jokes aside, WeHo Queens are their own stuck up breed. I used to live there and now I live in Long Beach. The gay scene is totally different. LB gays might not all be aspiring models but they are a lot more friendly. Plus it's a beach city so the laid back attitude and saying hello to a stranger on the street or in an elevator is normal, not odd. The funny part is, when WeHo gays come down to LB for the first time, the comment I get most often is "you guys are so nice down here, it's not like that up in LA". The real answer is no, we are just normal people, you guys are all cunts up there.

[quote]In other countries, saying good morning, good evening, etc is a sign of having manners

That used to be an American thing, it still is in very small towns. But it changed a long time ago mainly out of safety reasons and fear I think. Especially in big crowned cities where you cant acknowledge everyone that passes by when hundreds of people are walking past you at any given time of day. Most of the people on a busy street trying to say hello are often begging for money either as some homeless person or some scam charity. And some people wont leave you alone if you acknowledge them. You get to a point where you put up a wall just to get where you are going even if you look rude or miss out on genuine friendliness or courtesy.

It's also a cultural thing. In Europe, if you are in a small village it is considered extremely impolite not to exchange a greeting with anyone who crosses your path. In a big city, it is considered rude and intrusive to interrupt a stranger by greeting them, an invasion of their privacy, similar to initiating a conversation on the Metro.

[quote] I see these guys every day. It makes sense to smile, give a head nod or at least make eye contact when when encountering each other.

Actually it doesn’t. It makes sense to do it if you seldom see them but I don’t want to get into this needless ritual with someone on a DAILY basis. How tiresome is that? I would soon find ways to avoid him or avoid going to the gym at the same time. And why should I have to not go whenever I want? This could all have been avoided if you never said hello to begin with!

It’s not that big of deal. Everyone acts like common courtesy is a gateway to an obligatory blow job. Just say hello and move on.

I was in the subway queens to get laid. A work colleague I ran into said hey. It was so awkward for no good reason.

R86 Long Beach has its own issues. Its predominately latin queens & bears. The latinos are NOT friendly.

The friendliest gays I’ve experienced are in Atlanta and Chicago.

Coming from NYC, I was astounded how open and welcoming those gays were. In Atlanta, especially, I went to a number of gay bars and had a phenomenal time just because people were smiling and sweet. Chicago, I got asked out by so many men in just one night. Sadly, I was just visiting and was headed out the next day.

So used to the stand-and-pose NYC scene, I was so confused when I experienced nice gays that, for the first time in my life, I really considered moving.

I agree about Chicago. I was too busy with work to go out and play the one time I was in Atlanta.

It’s been hit or miss for me in Long Beach. At one of the bars, there was a nasty queen that would skip people’s songs over on the juke box if he didn’t like them. The least he could do was give them their money back. Also tons of spicy drama at the Falcon.

R95 The falcon is pure trash. Drag Race latino drama.

R93 I agree about Chicago. I’ve never had so much fun in a big city..in the US. The guys were incredibly friendly. I hooked up a few times and actually made 2 lifelong friends. I would move there if it wasn’t so dangerous.

And the guys at the Chicago bathhouse fDteamworks) were some of the hottest I’ve ever seen. Brawny and welcoming—that mid Western vide.

Heaven

^Steamworks

[quote]R15 Put your foot down and demand to be treated respectfully.

So, like, yell? And slap?

[quote]Long Beach has its own issues. Its predominately latin queens & bears. The latinos are NOT friendly.

I am white, all the latin guys I have ever met in LB are total puppy dogs. LB is not "predominately latin queen and bears" You sound like a pretentious racist WeHo queen. There aren't bears or Latins in WeHo? There aren't queens? OMFG what are you smoking! Look in the mirror. QUEEN. And a racist one at that if you cant see saying that a city must have problems if the gays are not white.

[quote]. Also tons of spicy drama at the Falcon.

The Falcon is a tiny, tiny bar that most LB peeps I know never go to. It's mostly filled with trashy and WeHo queens pretending they just crossed the tracks for some rough trade.

This comment - "Most gay men learn early the hard way to never relax and let your guard down outside the home." - that hit home.

It's very true and we get so used to it that it's hard to put the guard down. It shapes who you are.

My partner is the exact opposite of this - but he was married to a woman and essentially grew up like a straight man for most of his life. I'm always amazed at how outgoing he is to EVERYONE. I've rarely ever met a gay man who came out early in life who is like that.

R66 - I live near you - I take my walks in Deepwell often. I usually get a 'hello' response or head bob. You do live in one of the more expensive areas, so some people are just snootier. But I receive a lot of responses if I try - sometimes I just want to get my walk over with.

Actually PS is one of the better places I've ever lived in terms of getting niceties and gay men interacting. Maybe it's because of the age or that many are on vacation, but most guys in PS are pretty open and welcoming, in my experience.

They are too cool for school, Op.

They are cattier than high school mean girls.

R101 I don’t know why you would assume I’m white. I’m black and Dominican. My experience In Long Beach has been nothing but unfriendly trashy Latino queens. You also assume I live in weho. I live in Canoga Park amongst very friendly people of all races.

Latinos CAN be odd in a conceited/submissive certain way.

Blame their mommas!

Oh Please R108 Caucasian gays are just as big mama's boys. Anderson is that you?

They are odd on the apps. A few of them though!

I live in a city. When I walk my dog, usually early in the morning around 5:30 to 7:00, people often nod or wave hello as they walk by, or even from their cars as they drive by. BUT, there is a gay guy a couple blocks over, and when he walks his dog, he doesn't acknowledge me, although he nearly always sneaks a glance, when we are adjacent.

R111 That would be most gays. My neighborhood had a huge block party. All the houses were decorated & everybody contributed something to the event.. food etc. The other gay couple in neighborhood would not acknowledge me. It was like I didn’t exist. Lesbians will acknowledge you. Gay men are assholes.

I don’t give a shit anymore. I say hello or good morning to everyone because I’m a nice guy. If you’re too stuck up or insecure to respond - that’s on you. I won’t let other people change me.

R112 you see this in the workplace as well. They moved a guy to an area of my office and he was very friendly and chatty and shared about some of the orgs he was involved with, specifically this one org that is LGBT. I acknowledged I was familiar with it and discussed how great it was. etc—it was like the moment he realized I am probably gay too, something changed. He’s now friendly, but nowhere near as friendly as before. I don’t understand it and honestly don’t care, but it’s a strange reality. I feel like often a lot of gay guys enjoy being the only unicorn (“the gay”) in different arenas, and another gay guy is seen as competition or dilutes their “unique” status. I’m out at work but don’t make it a talking point—and generally stay under the radar. I’m tired of the BS from the other side, and our own.

R114 - yeah, you'd think the reaction would be 'oh awesome! another gay!' and it's the exact opposite.

Part of me has reacted the same way though - and some of that is that I do not want to talk about gay stuff at work all the time or be associated with someone really flamboyant or who is going to be drama. Yes - that's a lot of assumptions, but once you've been there - you are on your guard.

And gay men can be possessive of their female work friends. It's a really weird and fucked up dynamic, but sooo common.

R114 R 115 This makes total sense sense a lot of gays in the workplace want to be the head of the lunch table. They’re stuck in the eighth grade… Deciding on who is cool enough to sit with them.

Oh, my people. My people!

Rude gays are a dime a dozen.

R114 again—this reality used to make me mad in the workplace, especially when you see how other minorities will support each other and have each other’s back—or at least see others like them as a reminder that they aren’t the alone in their particular struggle/environment.

Gays will more often be the first one to invalidate you or throw you to the wolves will some gaggle of fraus. When you are gay, it’s your war and you’re the lone soldier. That’s why I unfortunately no longer see other gays as allies, which is ironic for all their talk about being/having one. Now I just try to be equally friendly and supportive of all.

Sometimes our expectations of others are the main problem.

R119 - and what I see are a lot of one-upmanship among gays at work. They're doing THIS project, their HOTTER date, their FABULOUS party they went to, etc.

And there's always the gay that wants the most attention and will feed into what people want from a gay man - the court jester, the fag hag, etc.

I can kiss ass - but it has its limits. Particularly with basic, common straight suburban people that are a dime a dozen and who are so fucking boring.

Anyone who can't return a friendly hello must be miserable inside.

Ever since I was little, people approached me to ask me questions. Especially in the store. I tell them I don't work here (lol), but I do try to answer whatever question they have. Frankly, I take it as a compliment that people think I'm approachable.

On the other hand, I have a friend who a grifter magnet. Remember those sales kiosks in shopping malls. Those grifters would always zero in on my friend. I'd stay: keep walking, stop engaging.

I find gays less rude to each other when they feel safe—like Fire Island and Ptown. When fewer straights are around, for some reason they feel they don’t have to compete as much

R122 I completely disagree with you. P-town & Fire Island are like Roosevelt Middle School.

Lol, R123. Wow, not even high school; middle school.

Bottoms hating bottoms , yawn.

R124 Yes because most guys have not progressed past the 8th grade. There’s still the queen bee holding court telling everybody what they should wear etc. etc. deciding who is cool.. and who isnt.

Yes r120– a lot of gays give in to the accepted mainstream roles in society. I have been guilty of that myself over the years, especially when I was younger. It feels good to be accepted after a life of being bullied and suppressing who you are your whole life.

As I got older, I tried to stay low key and professional at work, but there is always a contingency of fraus that will hound you about your personal life, why you are still single, not married, etc. Rarely is it more than morbid curiosity, so beware. Most men at work don’t care if you’re gay and don’t want to know—and other gays are rarely personally interested unless they are romantically/sexually interested. It’s a difficult road, and many concede and become the frau adjacent BFF, the court jester, the non-threatening male shoulder to cry on.

I’ve learned it’s making a deal with the devil, and has never been a healthy or reciprocal relationship. If anything, I learned it made me wildly codependent. Caretaking others becomes your identity, including with friends and family, but it’s a cheap high. Being accepted shouldn’t mean so much personal compromise, and like r120 said, we give straight people way more consideration than they deserve.

I realized it part of my own subconscious internalized homophobia and stopped playing the game. But just because you do, don’t expect others to, and so rude gays at work just need to be ignored. Bit be the change you want to see in the world and maintain your personal integrity. Be friendly to all. That will always be more powerful than rudeness.

* But be the change

R127 - hounding is correct. And I don't understand why they do it - no girlfriend, never married, chances are they are gay. Is it because many gay men (not all, for sure) take care of themselves and dress ok?

Straight people take their work friendships so much more seriously. I know these people will be gone one day and I will never hear from them again.

Gay people know we will never truly be equals in straight people's eyes or consideration - there's just no interest in being the 'less than' in order to hang out.

Yes R129. It gets tiring being the odd man out at gatherings. I know it’s done with good intentions, but I find socializing at work should be kept to a minimum, especially if gay.

I will say if you are traditionally partnered with another guy it’s easier because then fraus and hetero men can relate to you and you’re no longer a “threat” or a dangerous unknown. You’re no longer the “mysterious stranger” gay. That’s why I always laugh when heteros claim we push being gay in their face. There really is no escape, especially now that gay culture is much better known by mainstream culture.

I also don’t have many female friends anymore, least of all at work. I think many fraus are distrustful of relationships with men where they don’t have the upper hand, so I stay wary. I’ve also learned many will sell you out in a heartbeat. Hate to generalize, because obviously not all women are they way, but that has been my experience. Straight guys will tolerate you, but never confide anything gay related. Usually it’s just tolerated as TMI, mocked or used as a gross out story with buddies later.

R130 - yep, not one of the guys and not really a part of the girls group either. In almost every work or social setting - and you feel that. Or worse, when they go out of their way to make you feel included - for 10 minutes - that just calls out how much you aren't part of the group really.

It's no wonder gay men can be socially distant and standoffish. Of course people see it as being rude or aloof, but it's just a lifetime of being on guard.

Y'all should try working for a period of years at a place like Gay Men's Health Crisis. Hoo boy!

STFU, all of you!

R132 - tell us all about it. If any place is supposed to be gay supportive, it would have been that. What was it like?

OP, this isn't really gay specific.

Most people everywhere aren't very friendly. No one wants to say hello in a city because who knows if the other person wants money or drugs or your wallet.

Suburbs are the same - people want to drive into their garages and never say hello to their neighbors.

In some respects, a place like GMHC is wonderful. But eliminating a lot of straight-specific bullshit just leaves more room for gay-specific bullshit.

Growing up gay in America is difficult and none of us ever escape without damage. It is inevitable. And some unlucky gay people, the ones born into the worst families or the worst surroundings, are horribly damaged. It's always good to try to be a little extra patient when dealing with gay people. They are kind and loving and generous and empathetic... sometimes. But we are all human and have our wounds. The 'system' favors straight people. If the straight folks keep their heads down, they pass through it easily. But gay people... no. We have to work to succeed in the straight system our society favors and the built-in extras that keep the straight folks going do not come to us. It's changing, as it should. But change today does nothing to ameliorate the shit we already ate 20 or 30 or 40 years ago.

A business meeting in a gay company ends up being much the same as in a generally straight company. But, yes, there are plenty of gay differences. Ideas are, from time to time, presented perhaps a little more grandly. The handouts are always cleaner and neater. But the problems faced by gay clients are readily understood, respected, and acted on much faster than in a straight environment. It's a mixed bag, but there are differences. Some of them are wonderful and others are a test. That's how life is.

"But change today does nothing to ameliorate the shit we already ate 20 or 30 or 40 years ago." - yep, those scars are there for life and shaped all of us, sometimes for the better and many times for the worse.

Personally, I think many people who come out later in life when they are more mature (like mid to late 30's or early 40's) actually are better off mentally. Yes, they struggled with being gay, but it doesn't cut like the isolation, the abuse, and being on the outside for no good reason.

Yes, I think it’s GAY SPECIFIC because everyone else responds, even speakers of other languages that say hello in English, or sometimes their own language.

I find that many are afraid to say hello as they pass by, but when I do, they do open up and smile.

[quote] Suburbs are the same - people want to drive into their garages and never say hello to their neighbors.

I grew up in a suburb, but in a cul-de-sac (dead end street). All owner-occupants (no renters). Anyway, very friendly and I would love to live in a place like that, again. There was one guy who was retired (military). He seemed old to me, but he was probably late 40s. He was the unofficial Neighborhood Watch and kind of a busy-body.

It was nice to live somewhere where people kept an eye out for each other.

I also grew up in a leafy, wealthy suburb. Whenever I visit now, 30+years later, I am greeted on the street. Dog walkers, mothers pushing strollers, older people walking for exercise, etc. I never see anyone who is "obviously gay" so I'm not sure if any rude gays live there! LOL!

I think it’s pretty easy to distinguish someone who casually says good morning in the neighborhood from some crackhead running up to you. People act like it’s some major undertaking to respond with good morning. I don’t get it.

I hear recovery groups like AA that are made up of primarily gay men are always welcome and inclusive /snark

*welcoming

I have another story of bathhouse rudeness to share. A little over two years ago I was at WSC in NYC. A husky, muscular guy with tattoos entered my room and was sucking me off - praising my manhood as he blew me. He started insisting that he video me getting a blowjob. I kept insisting NO. Then he gave me an attitude- Talk about RUDE- He said- You're lucky I'm even in your room( I think that's what he said. I'm not sure because the music was blaring) The next RUDE thing I heard clearly- I WOULDN'T EVEN LOOK AT YOU ON THE STREET.

I've NEVER had anyone give me such an attitude in my life. What he said would have really hurt if he had been my type like that slim, blond guy I mentioned earlier. I was able to brush off his rudeness and recovered quite well.

[quote] he doesn't acknowledge me, although he nearly always sneaks a glance,

I noticed that too. I usually don't say high to younger gay guys because I know they are thinking "how dare you even look at me you old troll". But then I also usually catch them sneaking a glance like they have some secret daddy fantasy. It's kind of amusing.

I only respond in kind if they make the first move in normal common courtesy of just saying hello to strangers.

R145, what did you expect in the West Side Club. Jeezus. It was always just awful Chelsea boys. Feh.

[quote] now that gay culture is much better known by mainstream culture.

WTF is "gay culture"?

West Side Club? Was he 72 years old?

R147- Someone once described West Side Club as a place where there were guys who had ATTITUDE who shouldn't, another words the HOT guys there had attitude and the AVERAGE guys there had an attitude. The same person said having an attitude DOESN'T make you hot. This was years ago before grindr took over.

R149- No, he was about 44 years old and FULL of himself. I find confidence attractive but someone who's full of themselves is a TURNOFF.

44 is old!

R149- East Side Club had the FAT and OLD NOT West Side Club.

Although now I'm BOTH .

Gays are so rude!! They are terrible people! Almost as bad as bisexuals!!! Doesn't everybody want to die? Everything is so bad! Blah Blah Blah Boristroll.

OP strikes me as the type of person who tells women to smile and holds up the checkout line by chatting with the cashier. It is not rude to not want to talk to a stranger. It is rude to expect that you deserve interaction from everyone that you walk by.

I’m so glad I’m older now (43) and care so little about what other gays think of me.

If you think I’m cute or interesting, that’s fine. If you don’t, and actively ignore me. that’s fine too.

It’s a nice place to be in life. FINALLY

I’ve had plenty of experience of dealing with toxic, prissy cunts. Ignore them, nothing drives them crazier.

[quote] I’m so glad I’m older now (43) and care so little about what other gays think of me. If you think I’m cute or interesting, that’s fine.

LOL! As if anyone would find a 43 year old cute. Olds are funny.

I don’t live in a big city and there aren’t a lot of other gay men either so I can’t answer to gay rudeness. I do say “ Good morning” to people I see while walking my dog. People respond in kind or with a smile or no response at all. I don’t expect any response, it’s my thing.

When someone is friendly to me I'm ALWAYS friendly back. I NEVER give someone an attitude because they're being friendly towards me, especially when it's one of the good looking suburban dads out for a jog and they greet me good morning.

My granny told me that at six and it's very true, r157.

KISS MY GRITS

Here's a little example of this that just happened to me at TMPL gym in Hell's Kitchen, which for the love of God, is overrun with gays, most of whom are nice and friendly. There's a very handsome dancer who works out there, who looks to be in his mid-twenties, with a beautiful body, gorgeous extension and exquisite pointe. I'm sure he's stunning to watch when performing. As a dancer myself, now 57, I'm happy that I'm still very flexible and maintain that by doing floor barre and stretching every day, so I've seen him run himself through his stretch. He's obviously seen me, although we've never spoken. Today, we were on adjacent weight machines, so I took the opportunity to approach him and pay him a compliment. I smiled at him and began to speak and he looked at me with a really stony face and pulled out his earbud. I said, "I just want to say how beautiful your pointe is. People say I have great feet, but your feet are better than mine!" He didn't crack a smile, just barely grunted and kinda raised an eyebrow. To borrow a phrase from Patti LuPone describing Madonna, he was 'dead behind the eyes'. He turned his face away from me and shoved his earbud back in his ear. It was all I could do not to laugh as I walked away. I've never received a less gracious reply to a compliment. He actively gave me shade for a fucking compliment. I considered turning around to say, "Don't worry, I don't want to fuck you." but decided it wasn't worth it. What a cunt.

R162- At least that twink had an excuse- He's YOUNG.

That QUEEN at WSC two years ago was twenty years older than your twink. He had NO excuse for his RUDE behavior.

In the city where I live, everyone hates each other and no one acknowledges anyone. You'd surely be stabbed to death here for being an annoying fuck, OP.

The gay men aren’t saying hi because they think you’re trying to hit on them. That’s what they think about everything - it’s all about them. Same pattern everywhere Grindr….

I will admit that in my younger days, I too was a rude gay. Men DID bother me all the time with the hopes of sleeping with me. It got old quickly so I stopped reacting to strangers.

[quote]WTF is "gay culture"?

A group of old queens sipping wine in a hilltop mansion littered with antiques somewhere in SF bitching about how the Castro used to be gay.

OP—if you’re over 40, you’re invisible to gays.

I remember being talked to by older guys when I was young, but I was never rude like what’s being described.

I worked in a hardware store in a gay district during college. There was a good number of guys that would come in, decide I wasn't hot enough, then proceed to ask me questions about products/solutions while looking away from me for the entire conversation. FFS we're not in a hot club, we're in a shop discussing the best options for your door hinges or leaky showerhead.

R171 that’s terrible and I believe you. I’ve seen gay guys visually “categorize” you and treat you accordingly. It’s probably worse now with every one feeling they can “curate” there own reality online. It’s like they have “blocked” you visually.

^their

I think straight guys and gay guys are basically the same in most areas, except this one and I think it stems from not being able to be our true selves during the important teen socializing years. If there is common ground, straight guys seem to be friends with anyone. However, a lot of gay guys act like 15 year old mean girls in the the high school lunchroom or the meanie moms on the cul de sac or the PTA. Very judgy. Very lookist and classist. I don't want to make it a femme/masculine thing, but that rude, catty behavior seems to present in women and gay guys more so than straight men and more masculine gay men.

I have had a similar theory R174. Which is gay men at least the ones of my era hid being gay mostly through high school to avoid things like being beaten up and attacked by straight dudes. As a result of that hiding, dating, relationships, sex was delayed into later years. So 20 somethings act like 16 year old mean girls once they finally get out into the real world and start that socialization process. Sort of like a delayed adolescence. And then somewhere along the line as they age they surpass the typical straight male in terms of maturity. Although some never grow out of it. They end up as old bitchy queens spending all day posting on The Data Lounge.

R174 I think many gays socialize with mean girl types in HS as well.

This documentary kind of explores this topic

R174 Has never known a "straight guy" in her entire life. STFU. You're no expert. Straight men are nothing like gay men.

This proves one thing, as much as you all say gays are really bitchy or mean, to gold standard everyone keeps referring to is Mean GIRLS and Moms. They win first place.

West Hollywood attracts a lot of uneducated gays raised in trailer parks who come here wanting to be stars. Don’t feel bad that they ignore you. Feel relieved. They’re probably sociopaths anyway.

To add to what R180 said, it's kind of a desperation going on there too. Those guys might have been 10's in their small town but in WeHo they are like a 7 maybe. On top of that a lot of them really are there with dreams of being a movie star or model. Some actually are but the vast majority are wannabes. A lot end up as meth addicted grifter looking for rich daddies when they come to grips it's not going to happen and age out by their 30's. That's part of what feeds their bitterness towards gays who are normal, happy and not trying to be part of "the industry". .

I think what a lot of you are missing is that you don’t know what it’s like to be extremely good looking. They get constant attention and have to block it out just to survive life or they would never get through the day. It’s not being rude, it’s just that I can’t take the constant ogling and eye-fucking. It gets creepy. You have to walk a mile in the other’s shoes to understand.

If you live in a small town, you're stuck. You need to be polite to EVERYONE because those small town bitches never forget. Never. 20 years from now, they will still be dragging you for any perceived slight.

But if you're in a big city like New York or Los Angeles, your time and your head space are already maxed-out. If you greet them with a gushing "Good morning" you have done no more than interrupt them. And if you are also living in that big city, you should have learned that a long time ago.

I've been going to my same gym in West Hollywood for years...I've been working out every day for years next to the same gays who still have never once made any eye contact or ever even said hello to me. I grew up in Ohio, I say hi or hello to everyone and these gays who I literally see every day of my life won't ever acknowledge me. It's crazy.

Kindness costs nothing.

Right. Nobody owes you anything, twerp.

My friend performed a random act of kindness (said a warm hello to a stranger who was apparently mentally challenged). Lo and behold, Oprah was waiting for her ride and had observed my friend's kindness. Oprah said to my friend -- that was great - blah blah blah.

If my friend and Oprah (gay) have time for a fucking kind word or two, then so do I.

Did they get a car, r186?

No car, R187. It was random. Friend was exiting store; Oprah was standing at curb.

Aren't the worst ones who smile in your face and diss you behind your back?

I have never understood why gay store clerks will sometimes be rude once they realize I’m gay.

They will be curt when answering my question or look around at hotter gays when describing something for me.

Bitch, I make over 10x what you do and you’re not going to see a penny of my money.

Yes, rule #1 for shop bottoms: do not be an asshole or ignore me because I’m not a hot gay.

I often encounter the opposite in stores—they are the only gays who will pretend to me nice to me. They understand that making a sale is easier if you smile at me

I’m a waiter and I hate gay customers. I always ignore them.

I was at dinner last night. My gay waiter was super nice to me. We chatted about the pandemic and how hard it’s been for the wait staff. The gays at the table next to me would not even look him in the face. They were nasty assholes the entire time I was there.

[quote]West Hollywood attracts a lot of uneducated gays raised in trailer parks who come here wanting to be stars. Don’t feel bad that they ignore you. Feel relieved. They’re probably sociopaths anyway.

I give you exhibit A:

[quote]I think what a lot of you are missing is that you don’t know what it’s like to be extremely good looking. They get constant attention and have to block it out just to survive life or they would never get through the day. It’s not being rude, it’s just that I can’t take the constant ogling and eye-fucking. You have to walk a mile in the other’s shoes to understand.

R163 You win. That’s the worse gay bitch response (to a casual social interaction) I’ve ever read. Wow! I think it also sparked a memory of an interaction I had in the past, that I’d forgotten about, with a fellow gay. Something similar and just as cold.

More stories about rude gays, please!

Here’s one—a straight friend was at this small informal event of mostly gay guys (I believe it was a benefit) and this guy came up next to him. My friend, realizing he hadn’t been introduced to this guy, turned to him and said hello, introduced himself, extended his hand to shake hands, and asked what his name was. The queen gave him elevator eyes and with a scornful tone responded, NOT INTERESTED.

OP, you should visit New Orleans, for real. It may be cliques quintessential, but everyone does greet each other. My neighbor is an elderly lady who says she misses being able to say hello to me. Even our "A-gays" are at least somewhat welcoming.

R182, your argument has merit, but I would encourage you to question why, exactly, in your urban environment a simple kindness may be so impossible for you. I'm from New Orleans and moved to Brooklyn after Katrina. I have a lot of fond memories of getting to know my neighbors, there and here. You appear to be so stressed by Capitalism, that you've become a drone incapable of a simple, "Good day, how are you?" It says a lot more about your inability than OP has. Do you have to greet every single being on the street? I would hope not, unless you're some psychopath living in a musical. I would encourage you to talk to your neighbors, always. Ask them how they are. If something is off, offer to help.

We need more in-person kindness in this world.

R198 The sad and pathetic part of this is that there are gays in their 50s still doing elevator eyes.

Meant for R183, but my argument stands.

"Elevator eyes"? Show me a pic.

Every December my father and I would go to Washington DC. About 2010 or 2009 a new store had opened in Dupont Circle ( We always stayed at The Hotel Palomar) it was a Cafe that had pastries. I just popped into the place one morning to check it out . Three QUEENS were standing there when I walked in, and one of them eyed me up and down. I walked in there to asses the merchandise. I did not know that some queen was going to be assessing ME.

R204, I avoid Dupont because of behavior like that.

There's nothing worse than being denied the validation of attention from younger, more attractive men.

R206- You mean being INVISIBLE to younger, more attractive men?

I work with a couple of fat cunt gays at my school district who work in a parallel department. At first I was cordial but after several snide remarks and a couple of nasty emails from each of them I'm out of fucks to give. I laugh whenever I see them.

I’ve totally lost interest in ‘the gays’ It’s exhausting to be around people who are always on stage.

The worst example I have witnessed was when I was with a friend in a bar, and he introduced me to a nasty queen who looked me up and down and looked offended at having to acknowledge me. Then a deaf guy came to say hello to my friend. They had slept together some time before. Being well mannered, my friend introduced him to the company. The nasty queen blew up, screaming at my friend for embarrassing him by introducing the perfectly nice deaf guy to him. The bar suddenly went very quiet. The nasty queen left in a massive drama, slamming the door on the way out.

I guess I was blessed at a very young age. Ive never given a flying fuck what anyone thinks about me,especially some nasty queen. If they are rude I give it right back to them. And I can be a vicious bitch. Mock me if you will,but I think being not bad looking (and knowing it) saved me from a lot of bullshit in the gay world. Ive never lacked confidence,still dont though Im not the prize I was.

My husband and I have been vacationing at the same beach for over a decade. There’s always the same gay couple renting the house next to us each year.

I’m a friendly, open guy and say hello to them every year. And every time they mumble something and look away.

Granted, they are blazing hot and hang around with their gaggle, but how hard is it to say hello?

It’s always baffled me but I keep saying hi each year.

R212 this sounds like P town to me.

R213, yes, PTown

R214 No surprise. The catty bitch bs exists in most ‘gay’ towns.

I don’t find that much bitchery in gay vacation towns. In my experience, most are relaxed and friendly.

When those same people return to the cities, the bitchiness returns quickly

Yes, indeed, R215. Their vacation MUST be fabulous. And don't any of you "B" gays or even "C" gays dare to intrude.

My partner is pretty hot. Funny when guys completely ignore me and go right to him. And then they realize I’m his partner and have to be nice to me.

I live in a fairly friendly street (just simple hellos and short conversations when paths are crossed) with the obligatory middle-aged, not-hot gay couple who ignore everyone. Turns out their neighbor wanted to do some massive extension so they tried to get everyone in the street onside and get it blocked when it would only really impact their view and privacy. Their solution was to send us all letters anonymously with the contact details of then planning council. I asked one of them if they had sent the letters and he said they had, so I told him that I had lodged a complaint with the council. Most other people ignored the letters because there were no residential contact details.

The next day we walked past each other - the only two people in the street - and he ignored me. I contacted council, said I though the development was great idea. It went ahead a few months later and they moved out not long after. The concept of building goodwill in order to get people to help you is lost on some people.

Been to a few pool parties with the “bear” crowd. As someone who doesn’t frequent bars or that scene, I didn’t know many people other than my friend, but assumed that since it was the bear scene, guys would be more down to earth and friendly, so I was less hesitant in socializing than I would be in a gay circle.

Wow—got more than a few AND WHO ARE YOU?? looks from a few in a conversation. I found that surprising, and there are social cliques and the same rude behavior even among them. I think some bears are just average guys—but some are just scene queens that got old and fat.

R220 I couldn’t have said it better myself. Bears are assholes.

GenX here. I can relate to these experiences as ones I had in my 30s dealing with fellow GenX and older, and I’m considered good looking. I’ve not dealt with the same issues when being around Millennials but I don’t really know how they treat each other.

R221 actually many were really nice, but there was a subset that clearly hadn’t left the gay scene socially/mentally and had kind of recreated some of the cliquey gay scene BS. I guess it was more odd to me since bear culture promotes itself as a reaction to the lookism and social prejudice of mainstream gay culture. I’m sure if I were an insanely hot muscle bear—or the SO of one of the “in” crowd, I’d have been treated differently. In that way some gays can be like fraus in they often need external motivation (personal benefit, social pressure) to be nice to new people. I honestly wasn’t expecting it from a bunch of middle aged adult men. They were generally nicer as they got more drunk, though.

This thread is a great read, OP, et al... Sad, and true. Has anyone here popped over to the Are You Friendly thread? Some quite remarkably rude responses to the friendlies. I've always been friendly, and make the effort even when I'm in a foul humour.

I've had so very many instances of experiencing mainly random rude gays, I'd be hard pressed to pick just one. One I'll not forget is when an older lady I was working for (antiques dealer) pressured me into giving my CV to a "friend"of hers, as he had an independent auction house, (as it would turn out, she was more client than friend)

He was roughly ten or firteen years older, very blond, and as the poster upthread so brilliantly phrased it, was most definitely a "scene queen". He had an older sugar daddy who was said to be his main stakeholder in the enterprise. He had a reputation that wasn't all sunshine and roses, so I was prepared. I didn't want to go in the first place.

The staff was rife with young mean queens too. Very icy chill to the air in there, and the stares. Not even one person faking it at being nice.

He instantly gave me the up and down scrutiny, and when I extended my hand, and exclaimed "nice to meet you, Sir", he did not shake. He took my CV out of my hand, turned on his heels, and mumbled "it's always interesting meeting new people", with his back already turned to me. When I told the lady she was very embarrassed, but not at all shocked. In a consoling tone said to me "you're really not at all like most of them; you're really too good for them".

Aside from lesbians friends I know from Rugby, all my close mates seem to be straight. When people ask why I only have one close gay male friend, I simply tell them other gay blokes don't usually give me a chance to even get to know them. (unless they were looking for a sex partner) I still remain positive, kind, and outgoing, but as other posters have shared, I don't get my hopes up or expect much kindness from random gay blokes.

[quote]Typically everyone says “good morning” in return. Except gay men. What’s their problem? My theory is that these people were not raised well.

This is why I gave up a long time ago trying to be nice to other gays - because most of them have nasty attitudes and automatically assume you want them just because you say hi.🙄. And then they wonder why they end up friendless as they get older .

Rude gays sashay in the streets

Come a little closer

Rude gays, iron the sheets

“Nobody knows her”

Rude gays, don't walk away

I very nearly missed you

Rude gays , come over here

I wanna F&F you

Friendly or not thread, for anyone interested, but not familiar with it.

That does it! This thread has convinced to never ever again talk to ANY gays!

I seem to recall reading that too many gay men “rely on physical attraction as a social filter”. I think it was The Velvet Rage, a very insightful book.

I think it was in 2012 on a trip to Provincetown. I was there for bear week. I did not know it was bear week until I arrived. I went to tea dance at Boat Slip on a Saturday. I was standing against a wall. My feet stick out no matter what because I wear a size 17-4E. These two Muscle Bear QUEENS trip over my big feet and almost want to start a fight - It's as if they want to blame me for their own KLUTZINESS. I had been to tea dance many times over the year and NEVER had a problem with anyone until these two BEAR queens gave me an ATTITUDE. Thank goodness Bears aren't my type.

[quote]It makes sense to smile, give a head nod or at least make eye contact when when encountering each other.

If you already know the person. If you're a complete stranger it's weird unless you are trying to get help with something or are trying to pick them up.

R230 This makes total sense since muscle bears and bears in general think acting like a man means you have to be aggressive. It’s all part of their hyper masc shtick. They aren’t my type either. I’m not hyper sexual… And I prefer safe sex… Unlike the bears.

What is it with: common courtesy = flirting? I don’t get it. When strangers casually say hello in passing, my first thought is never, “Ugb he/she is trying to pick me up”.

I do some design work in Beverly Hills and one day when I took my client to look at some marble in a high end showroom it was what you expect, full of young gay shop bottoms. Anyways, of course they were ignoring me and my client except for the oldest one in the room. He looked like he was in his mid 40's, bearish, receding hairline, nicely dressed but casual with some expensive glasses. My client instantly keyed into his frames and paid him a complement. He made a self deprecating joke about being the old Sea Hag of the showroom. We gave him a $50,000 order.

Bottom line, being rude and snotty can bite you in the ass. Just because I look your way does not mean I am "eye fucking" you. Get over yourselves, all I wanted was some help with a big order.

People don't understand, it's hard being ridiculously good looking.

Lol I remember some gays posting the acronym VGL to describe themselves. Even if that were true, describing yourself that way is a total turn off.

R231 should be forced to be super black for a fucking year. That'll change your tune. Only a white girl could say something so stupid.

It’s likely that it’s actually insecurity complex, dressed up as rudeness for self-protection purposes

OPs thread and the behavior he displays in public is passive aggressive.

I don't believe OP's original gesture and desire is aggressive. Just wants to enjoy a pleasantry. BUT, the consistent non response means there is something in the situation that isn't working. Could be OP, or the city, or the the neighborhood. But the consistent NON response is a communication - STOP it, you corny old coot. STOP forcing your dream nostalgia of how things should be, were, could be, whatever, on others.

I learned the truth of this working in very different cultures. GO WITH THE FLOW, do not disrupt, do not insist. Take the non-verbal communication ("no response" is a communication) and adapt.

Sheesh.

This thread confirms my long-standing belief that we need to take RuPaul and her nasty attitude and her shade and her reading, along with all her acolytes, and lock them in the deep freeze, socially, metaphorically, until they clean up their acts and replace their hateful shtick with something MUCH more positive.

RuPaul you're not funny. All you queens copying her... you're just tragic. Aim higher, ladies. Aim higher.

^ I co-sign this. I do think that some unpleasant gay behaviors are post-traumatic, but we also can't ignore the pathological elements of gay culture. RPDR is Exhibit A.

R233- When some of the good looking straight married men are jogging in the morning and say hello to me I WISH they were flirting with me.

R235- The title of his video should be - It's Hard Being Ridiculously QUEENY.

R239- I don't know about the OP but you sound PRETENTIOUS.

R239 is trying to say: Don't be an over-socialized cunt who thinks the world owes them something. If people are overly "friendly" to me, I usually ignore them in absolute disgust.

R245-The pharmacist at my CVS yesterday was sickeningly friendly yesterday. I wasn’t in the mood so I was not friendly back.

It actually is a lot of fun purposely treating really goodlooking people like garbage. It gives 'em a complex. Makes them wonder: but am I really THAT goodlooking.

Are they rude because they are insecure, or are we labeling them rude because we are insecure?

I smile at anyone I make eye contact with. It just makes the world a nicer place.

(I didn’t do this in NY all the time, though. Too many crazies.)

[quote]should be forced to be super black for a fucking year. That'll change your tune. Only a white girl could say something so stupid.

What does that have to do with anything? It's because of your attitude ir because you're unattractive to the people you want to attract, whatever your "issue" is.

Its sad- So many men are missing out on great friendships.

R232, you've been taken in by R230, aka the SCENEY and QUEENY troll.

It's WeHo. They all probably think you're ugly and don't want to talk to you.

Rudeness in WeHo is off the charts. They make NYC look like child's play. Irroniclly, just like most of Hollywood, the majority of people are from outside of California. All the a-holes or pretentious gay-holes move to CA to be "stars". They get pretty bitter when it doesn't happen. Being good looking there is not big deal, a dime a dozen. Suddenly, they are not special like where they came from.

R254- On my visits to San Francisco I find that Castro queens can be friendly.

Yes SF gays are very nice (and their faces aren’t plucked within an inch of their lives). LA gays are the complete opposite

Those queens in Frisco are hideous. Hideous! They are stuck there on their little peninsula with nothing to get them through but the delusion that they live in the most enchanted place on Earth.

As long as you support them in their delusion that everything they say and do is just the cleverest thing ever, then they are okay. But don't cross them. In a flash, they will sneer and hiss and shun. Pick a little, talk a little.

R204 R205 You can always ignore this type. Just pretend like they're not there.

Their behavior says something really bad about them.

Yoo-hoo! Just checking in to say hi. Are the gays still rude?

Fuck you, R259. Mind your own business.

Straight people are just as cliquey, especially young ones.

In every straight-dominated entertainment area, you’ll find tight-knit groups of straight friends belonging to a particular sub-group (preppies, blue-collar, etc.) who loath anyone who’s not part of their clique. And they often end up fighting when they’re drunk.

Gay men expect too much of other gay men.

R261 is reporting from the 1950s.

One thing I have noticed about rude queens, is they tend to be very polite to women in general. Also note, they might be acting rude because you are good looking. Shop bottoms in particular don’t like being upstaged.

R261 I agree with R262. You’ve painted quite an unfamiliar picture there. Also, is it ok with you that we discuss the flaws of our subculture? Or are we gays above reproach. The whole “straights do it too” is exhausting and counterproductive to a conversation (among gays about gays). Jesus Christ!

I used to live near such an area. After closing hours, the different groups (each consisting of young men and their girlfriends) would start looking for trouble with each other.

The problem with boring unintelligent people like you R264 is that you don't have anything to contribute to the conversation except to say "can we discuss the flaws?" The thing is, there are no especially gay flaws. Or if there are, nobody including you has come along yet to convincingly tell us.

That's what these people you're trying to hall monitor are saying. That's their legitimate contribution to the discussion. That there is no particularly gay angle to a discussion of stuck-up people and that it's a universal trait.

All you're doing is legitimizing trolling and anti-gay discussion on a gay forum.

R265 is talking about 1956. When she was just a young girl.

If you really want to drive a WeHo queen crazy, ignore them completely.

Rude gays are exceeding polite to straight man and women because they are afraid as fuck of them

Speaking of rude....the other day I was walking down the street not minding my own business and a cute hairless twink was right in front of me. Suddenly, I felt like he was a fridge and his butt crack, thighs and balls were a magnet. Like with several people in the past, I decided to slide my hand in there, feeling his moist goodness. And he had the nerve to run in fear and call the cops! Who the fuck does that!??

R270 Your brains are made of shit to think that one up. Jeesasssssssss fuckkkkkkkkk.

Oh please, OP. People living in a big city do not say "Good morning" to strangers. That's a small town kind of thing. 0/10

R261 is referring to The Sharks and The Jets.

WTF?.....I gotta talk to OP to brighten HIS day?.....No thank you....I don't even acknowledge Tricks after they leave....

In other words, OP, I guess no one is buying your “Mayor of WeHo” act, even in the early hours of the morning.

[quote] I don't even acknowledge Tricks after they leave....

THAT is fucked up.

R274- It's not 1978. No one says TRICKS anymore.

In 2017 I went on a cruise to Cuba. I took a plane from JFK to Miami on American Airlines. There were three stewards on the flight - which is unusual. The captain made an announcement was made that the flight would be delayed for 30 minutes. I was buckled in but had to take a leak already. I got up and went to the lavatory. One of the gay stewards ( that's like saying one of the SOUR LEMONS) says to me in a bitchy tone- That's okay I give you permission to use the bathroom. I laughed a bit but I thought he was RUDE.

[quote] Your brains are made of shit to think that one up. Jeesasssssssss fuckkkkkkkkk.

I appreciate the compliment

Yes, rude gay are sour lemons!

r14 is the source of toxicity in the world, with his bigotry, phony scapegoats and strawmen.

Being a cowardly troll who lies and spreads Fake News all day on the internet and uses minorities asserting their rights as a distraction from the real commercial and environmental threats diminishing all Americans is the true toxic effect.

Is r206 being sarcastic?

You have to have more going for you than looks in life. Why would you let one individual bring you down?

What do Zoomlennials call them, if not "tricks?"

It’s that grindr mentality spilling into real life. Ironically checking them and calling them out on their bullshit might actually get them to be more attracted to you.

These whores aren’t as great as they imagine themselves to be so when the situation gets out of their hands they will freeze and reevaluate

Gay men are a lot like straight women. If you give them the cold shoulder or treat them like shit, your wish is their command. Sad but true.

Because everyone wants another opportunity to live out our shitty relationships with our fathers and see them end happily this time.

R277 = I am bringing it back....I like TRICK better than "hookup".....I am only 50 and miss the old timey term. I am sticking with it until the end...Trick implies a cheapness to the guy who is a trick. You're garbage. I had my fun. Now disappear never to be seen in my life again.......LoL

"Trick" is indeed clearly disposable.

I am now, after a week in Amsterdam, starting to believe it's am American thing resulting from pent-up frustration in a Puritanical society. During pride week, EVERY business and church flew the LGBTQ flag, and everyone was celebrating. My roommate was saying that she has never, in her travels to 15 countries, met a more welcoming and hospitable community than the gay community in Amsterdam. Everyone, even straights with babies and disabled elderly people, are celebrating Pride and enjoying the music, drink and food together.

[quote] [quote] Mmm, in the case of younger ones, I think there is an idea, promoted by Drag Race etc., that rudeness, arrogance and cruelty are what characterise the élite.

You're nuts if you think older gays were all sweetness and pie back in the day. They could be as cruel as the day is long. The Boys in the Band didn't spring out from nowhere.

A lot of gays migrate from small towns with provincial attitudes.

It’s very easy to spot gay men at work. No gaydar required. They’re the men who always walk with their nose in the air and never greet you back.

Maybe it's you, R292. Maybe you're just that noxious in the work place that people avoid you.

In fact, if this is your experience "always," then it's a very safe bet, indeed, that the problem is you. Not them.

R290, I was just offering my explanation for the rudeness of some younger gays, the cohort to which I belong. I didn't say that older gays were all sweetness and light.

Sounds like you're the trash, R287

[quote] "Rude Gays"

This is redundant. Though thankfully, not all of the time.

R295 = Are you mad I didn't call you back after you blew me?.....You thought it was love?.....You weren't even that great.....LoL

We don't understand (?).

[quote]The whole “straights do it too” is exhausting and counterproductive to a conversation (among gays about gays). Jesus Christ!

Well, straight people post here too. And they are just as exhausting and rude. To pretend this is a tired argument then continue to post only about gays is setting up a false narrative.

The last person to be rude to me was some cunt in a string bikini getting into the elevator where I live with her male partner. I said hello which is customary in my building even if you don't know each other. She just looked at me and then turned her head the other way for the rest of the entire ride. Talk about awkward and rude. She obviously heard me but couldn't be bothered.

[quote] [R274]- It's not 1978. No one says TRICKS anymore.

Who appointed you the Language Police Officer?

R299 No one owes you anything. Especially a super cunt like you.

R301 = rude gay.

R302 As has been pointed out a million times, most DLers are psychotic and obviously shut-ins. Everything out of their sick mouths are fantasy or delusion. There is no basis in reality to anything a cunt like you has to say. About ANYTHING.

R303 - don't know about shut ins. Went to pretty much all the places some suggested in Paris and Amsterdam and it was awesome. They maybe shut ins if they are older, sick or were under lockdown but doesn't seem like it.

It's just a defense mechanism.

If I show from the start that I am better than you, you cannot put me down.

Psychotic mofos are filled with nothing but "defense mechanisms". Puke. How you psychopaths think!

Really? "Psychotic mofo" is appropriate?

With decade after decade of evangelical preachers railing daily against gay men and women in the harshest, most abhorrent and judgmental ways, after condemning them endlessly to the fiery pits of Hell, after all of the abuse that parents shower on their children because they listened to that shit. After all of that, and oh so much more, you follow the abusive example of the christo-fascist preachers? Can you find it in your heart to re-think that?

Of courses gay people are damaged by all that abuse. Of course it affects us all. And never forget that while we all get a dose of it, some of us get much more of it. So if we are defensive and reserved and cool with one another, or if we are grand and untrusting... what other way could it be?

Cut them a break. Pat Robertson won't. Robert Jeffress won't. Ralph Reed won't. Tony Perkins won't. Why align with them? Why spend your life reinforcing their filthy work?

R307 has 500 voices in her head all screaming at her. Poor thing. Take your meds, dearie.

R297 is a POS

I've grown up in close proximity to WeHo and I think it is the transplants who give locals a bad name. A lot of people/gays who are newer to LA are either fresh of the bus or think there is a certain attitude that they need to inhibit. The rudest guys are usually very new to LA and trying to be something or reinvent their shitty lives here.. Also, the vibe is not the greatest in LA right now, especially not early morning. I wouldn't take it personally. There are rude gays everywhere.

And then there are some queens who are worth ignoring or look crazy, so you avoid them.

I have this one moron here in my building, ugly as sin and always wearing the same scruffy clothes + cape to hide his balding head. Whenever I greet him in the hallway when he goes out with his poodle (!), he responds with a curt and bitchy "hi". As if he'd rather not greet anyone.

I suspect he once approached me on Grindr, I didn't know he was basically my neighbour, and of course, I either didn't respond or blocked him straight away. Rejection hurts.

R311 - one of my new favorites on DL. You should, from now on, give him an extra cheerful "Hellooooo" and look annoyingly happy with your life. That will really drive him nuts. I always have some fun with nasty people.

Better to ignore him m. Then when he says hello because he wants the upper hand back,, act put out and say hi with the same snotty tone he gave you originally lol

I have encountered more rude woman over the course of my life than gay men.

Gay men might be bitchy some times, but woman are bitch AND entitled. I have even heard woman openly acknowledge they are bitches like it's a trophy. Who does that?

OP, is this you ?

It' so delightful how many rude posters popped over to this thread to prove OP's point. Cheers cunts.

To those who maintain one's neighbours in a condo or the elevator "don't owe you anything" I'd argue we all owe one another other basic civility. Perhaps you aren't required to initiate a greeting, but fuck right off with outright ignoring some neighbour saying hello to you. At least smile or give a head nod of acknowledgment.

Real miserable cunts the lot of you. It must be rough walking around with a stick so far up the arse.

I operate a little differently. When I'm out in public, I never greet anyone. I just go about my business with no interactions. However, if anyone approaches or greets me, I'm always polite and respectful without any exception. I've never dismissed any greetings ever.

R317 Thank you for being one of the normal humans, despite not being naturally outgoing.

My friend's friend (I'll call him "Dave") survived a workplace mass murder (firearm used). According to my friend, the murderer (I'll call him "Larry") was a workplace pariah (and maybe for some good reasons). However, Dave had always been at least cordial to Larry. On the morning of the mass murder, before the killings, Dave had actually greeted Larry: "Hello, Larry," or "Good morning, Larry," or whatever. Larry did not kill Dave that day but did kill several other people.

Get out of Weho go say hi in Brentwood.

I love Brits, but the gays in London are vicious with their joking but then if you tell them off, you are then the rude American!

There are too many homeless in Brentwood now.

R321 Americans tend to be much friendlier, and I like that about you. This is true even in larger cities I've found. Once your neighbours get a chance to know you better, they tend soften up a bit.

R163 here. They say wisdom comes with age, but I think one has to embrace it. Lots gay guys my age are still assholes, and probably haven't had much personal growth since they were young. I was definitely put off by the dancer who gave me shade when I spoke to him. However, when I think of the times I've been rude, or maybe only seemed to be, or reacted terribly to someone, I have to give him, and others like him a break. Maybe he was just having a bad day, or maybe he's not so happy.

When I was in my 20's & 30's, I was terribly uncomfortable with myself, completely insecure and had low self-esteem. I had anxiety issues that I didn't really start to deal with until my mid-forties. All of that came across as being aloof and sullen, but really it was fear and anxiety. It's taken me decades to peel back the layers, become more confident and like myself. Now that I'm homing in on 60, I've realized what a waste of time it was to not just fucking relax, and smile at people. I cut myself off from so much good and so many wonderful people because I was scared of not being good enough.

If this dancer guy is anything like I was, it's no fun being him. So when I saw him again, I didn't actively smile at him, since I knew that may have put him off again. But, I didn't scowl. Instead I sorta sent him a good thought, which actually gave me a boost.

How rude!

R246 & R247, this entire thread is about YOU and your shitty, self-loathing behavior. Only an unhappy, insecure asshole would deliberately be nasty to someone in an every day exchange. I promise you, if you let that shit go, you'll be amazed at how more pleasant your life will be.

R324–that’s pretty insightful. I believe because of having been bullied as a kid, I’ve always been hyper vigilant about how I’m being perceived and am overly concerned with it. I think it came out of wanting to win people over to feel a sense of safety, but ultimately, it’s exhausting. I’ve had to learn that I don’t need everyone to like or respond positively to me, and that if someone is rude or mean, it’s not necessarily about me—so I don’t need to do anything besides move along and not respond—nor do I need to keep trying to “coerce” the person into responding to me favorably.

At the same time, if someone is rude or mean to me, I have a right to take in that data and respond accordingly— like you did with that guy, I don’t have to continue being subjected to bad behavior and can simply avoid unnecessary contact without responding in kind.

R316 is the biggest cunt of em all. True Karen, too.

Update: this morning I had a nice chat with or greeted 3 people walking their dogs. The only person who didn’t respond to my friendly “good morning!” was a weird gay (scarf on his head) with an equally weird dog.

OP needs to go for a walk, every day and night, on Venice Beach and say hi to all the scum that have taken over. That'll finish her off.

Actually, one of my favorite things to do is bike from WeHo, through Beverly Hills to Santa Monica and down to Venice, where there’s a nice little brewery. I always say hello to people you pass by on the bike path. Everyone, for the most part, is super friendly. There’s a sort of comradery along the beach. Everyone is happy, enjoying the day.

For all of you psychologizing and excusing about how your early gay experiences made for a lifetime of social anxiety disorder ... Why? Why not realize at some not-too-late point, that you can walk into the light, stop judging yourself and others, and be the person you want to be and to encounter in the world? I went through some really terrible shit, but I mostly remained settled, inside my own head, that I would never let those experiences own my thoughts and emotions.

R332 is an uptight, shut down, emotionally stunted man who has not begun to admit, let alone unpack and repair, all of his psychological damage.

Emotional trauma is not something you just "realize" away. You don't understand the substance of anything you posted. 'Never let' your own traumatic experiences "own" your thoughts or emotions? You are just one unpleasant conflict away from serious trouble. Watch out!

R333 DL has nothing but these scumbags pushing their 3 cent psychology on everyone. Trying to excuse the whole world's legitimate issues or problems with their bogus "therapy". It is no better than what Tom Cruise's "church" is pushing. Plus decades of Oprah pushing all her garbage "therapists" and cultists, like Cruise, onto her stupid Karens. All Oprah's "fans" are Karens. She is the mother of all Karens.

We now know too much of your mental state, r319.

OP is very upset that some little kid didn't write her a thank you note for drinking from her garden hose! How dare they!

R333 sounds triggered. Maybe deal with your own crap before you fling it onto other.

I think R333 IS Tom Cruise.

God Dammit! I meant R334 IS Tom Cruise.

Question - how do you know the rude people are the gay ones? I mean apparently, a scarf makes you gay...what else.

R339 is obviously Jabba the Cunt. Going around calling everyone else Jabba. Nice try, cunt.

How do I know that they’re gay? Clothing and gait, overly groomed, even by WeHo standards. A few I’ve seen at Barry’s and similar places. One is well known in the area. Maybe some that are friendly are gay, but I don’t know it? That’s something I didn’t really think of, which would narrow it down to the type of gay. I’m super friendly AND gay, so a possibility. Gosh, I feel like I need to make a chart or diagram now.

I've just walked by you all, am not giving you the time of day nor returning your wave.

R339 You are either blind or your gaydar is broken

No, R333, it's not because I'm stunted. It's because I realized, when fairly young, that people are fucked up. They do stupid shit trying to get what they want. Others become collateral damage, including myself. None of this is a reflection on who I am.

Many people and increasingly these days, make a sort of career out of being damaged goods. It gets them attention and other resources in a world (the US anyway) where resources are constrained for many.

When I encounter people who might try to hurt me in various ways, I take steps to minimize or mitigate damage, and/or I get out of the way.

I'm not talking about defenseless children in this thread, because none of us are children. I'm talking about adults who rant on about stuff that happened 30+ years ago. Adults who should not have the perspective of years of life experience and years of distance from past insults. I'm talking about slights that happened to them when they were children, that are easily ignored in the present. And especially about those claiming that they can't help but being damaged goods now because 'they did this to me' then.