JFK Jr and Carolyn Bessette died 22 years ago today

Brah was sexy indeed.

He was a moron. He killed his wife and her sister. That's the tragedy.

HUGE PENIS! YUMMY!

[quote] This still breaks my heart.

Mary!

[quote] We went to leave flowers outside his door after he died and were on line for hours.

MARY!!!

Yes.

You lie!! He lives!!! He is going to reappear and lead us all through the coming apocalypse! 🤡

He had a hot ass but he couldn't live forever!

A very hairy ass. All tangles but remarkably, welcomingly clean, in case he found someone who he wanted to hack a way through the thicket to reach the sweet, soft center.

Too bad the three of them were collected using small skimmers and tongs.

His hair was spectacular. I was on jury duty with him in June of '99.

He only outlived his mother by five years.

By all accounts he could really hoover up the blow.

yum-ooooooooooooo!

Yes he killed them and himself. His life was unravelling.

He was an interesting character.

Him and her would be divorced had he lived.

So many conspiracies about that entire family. Scary how so many have tragically died.

He'd be 60 had he lived.

R8 Thank God Jackie on Assistance pre-deceased him. Would not have been pretty.

R13 young.

R10- Interesting. In what way do you mean, except his marriage, of course?

Twenty two years and still haunted by the loss before its time of such a beautiful plane. Death where is they sting.

[quote]He'd be 60 had he lived.

Ah. Without their twin tragedies, so much time in which he could have ditched Carolyn and married Princess Diana.

He never would have been piloting a plane if Jackie were alive. She wouldn't have allowed it. I don't know if she would have allowed him to marry Carolyn Bessette, either. I don't know if she would have thought Bessette a suitable mate for her John-John.

And the next month Princess Diana died. Terrible summer that year.

Terrible summer for careless upper class twits who didn't take basic safety precautions.

Geez someone is having their period! Meoww

JFK and passengers died two summers after Diana.

Why did they wait so long?

R20, Diana died in 1997.

Knew him in high school..

Not the brightest bulb, but not an idiot either.

But he vastly overestimated his skills in many domains...like flying, for example.

Had he not been JFK's son, he would have had a decent career in a decent law firm or corporate finance at an investment bank. But that would have been trading mostly on looks and not on brains.

that's a great pic of him OP. I saw him in person and he's even better looking than your picture!

There is video of his flying lessons

That is a great photo. Nice haircut and styling there.

OP sounds like a sweetheart

A lot of you make up a lot of stuff and just run with it.

jfkjr failed the bar exam twice. he was a dumdum.

The creative director at George magazine wrote a pretty good book. Easy to turn into a Devil-Prada-like Netflix series. Who'd play JFKjr? Zac Efron?

Zac Efron looks NOTHING like JFK Jr.

Incredibly photogenic- never seen a bad pic of him.

I like his nephew, although he does seem a bit try-hard. Caroline's daughters seem kind of boring and irritating, though.

His nephew is try-hard and wants to be like his uncle. Only he lacks his uncles natural beauty and charisma.

I was also 12 at the time - remember it like yesterday 🙁

This probably isn't the best place to post this, but I have to say. People who don't read though all the posts on a thread really do miss the flavor of DL. This thread, for example is quite a mixture or sadness, meanness, gossip, and humor, albeit sometimes unintended humor. It reminds me of my mother's assisted living building, when all the yentas would meet in the parlor in the lobby, some of them deaf, some addled, and they'd have animated conversations about politics, celebrity gossip and current events. Their whispers when it got to a salacious tidbit could be heard way across the room. They were hilarious. I often thought of video recording them. I wish I had. Ma died about 5 yrs. ago.

If you want to get a feel for the way JFK Jr. truly was, read Christina Haag's book "Come to the Edge." She was his girlfriend for years and maintained a friendship with Jackie after they broke up (maybe they broke up because Jackie approved of her). It's a good portrait of him. Not only was he a risk-taking daredevil, he seemed to have a need to include others in his death-defying antics. She describes several such incidents in the book. Fortunately she got out alive. Never fly with someone who has ADHD, esp. if they don't have an instrument rating and lots of hours in the sky.

Wasn’t Carolyn fucking Michael Bergin?

R39 I already love your mother! Like mine, she probably trusted that everything printed in the newspaper must have been true!

What breaks my heart is that his arrogance in taking off without instrument training into a situation where he was rapidly losing the horizon because his narcissistic bitch of a wife had her pedicure done 3 times till it matched her gown perfectly cost Bessette's mother 2 of her 3 children.

A third young woman died in that plane, too.

Every pilot on earth knew exactly what happened the moment the news came out.

Few things irritate me more than Kennedy star-fuckers.

He killed his wife and sister-in-law through sheer arrogance, abetted by his wife making them late taking off because of her fucking toenail colour.

Typical Kennedy arrogance: the rules don't apply to Us-even the rules of sea, sky, and basic safe air piloting.

Carolyn was indeed fucking Michael Bergin. She was little better than a common whore.

R44 Michael Bergin was so trashy-townie Connecticut, like the rapists in “The Accused.”

I read Bergin's book and he came off sounding like a good person. Blessed with movie star looks and a nice guy on top of it, it's a shame he only managed to reach the shores of Baywatch in his showbiz career. Sounds like a great lay too. At least CB seemed to think so. I think it was in one of the other (innumerable JFK Jr) threads where he talked about Carolyn destroying his apartment, him running out and her catching up with him. He said he had to push her down onto the street to get her to snap out of her mania. Can you say: "Cocaine?"

Carolyn is the one who got him in with Calvin Klein, no?

no Kennedy ever died of a curse, most died because of hubris

R47- She was a narcissistic coke whore. I can't believe he married her. The wedding, the skip she wore instead of a classy wedding gown. The underwhelming wedding, church, bride. Ahhh! All of it! Oh, but what it could have been.

A big wedding doesn’t mean class r49

No, but that wedding seemed almost ominous to me. My friends felt the same way. I really can't describe the feeling or adequately explain it. Dark vibes.

It felt like a rushed, borderline shotgun wedding. But many are like that.

He also had neither of his parents. He probably didn’t want something gigantic. His mother died not long before.

Doesn’t shotgun wedding mean baby coming?

Besette family took the estate to court saying that since Jr. was in the front seat, he died first, so Carolyn inherited all of his estate in that moment and they should get all the $$ since they were her survivors.

Caroline K.B. took one look at it and told the lawyers: I lost my brother. Give them what they want - I don't fight over money.

[quote]Not the brightest bulb, but not an idiot either. [quote]But he vastly overestimated his skills in many domains...like flying, for example.

Mega-celebs like JFK jr never get told "no." Everyone wants to be with them, so they never stop them from doing stupid stuff. That's probably why Kobe died -- the heli pilot didn't want to say, "it's too foggy, we can't fly" because he was afraid he wouldn't get asked to fly the next flight.

R56 or if someone like Kobe complained that pilot would be fired

I know I’m supposed to think the Kennedys are beautiful, but they’re not. Not even Jack. Certainly not Jackie.

Compared to other politicians? Sure, maybe.

Must be the power. The money. The fame.

Jack was handsome while young.

Caroline = Class

He was emaciated and sickly.

I've already posted it a couple of times but I saw JFK wearing a Navy suit, riding a bike, getting off a bike and locking it, then he walked into a building for a meeting. I was smoking outside the building and he looked like a million bucks!

R62 yes. My mother saw him rollerblading numerous times, usually shirtless and she said he always looked gorgeous, and he was in just shorts and rollerblades! He looked like a real life supermodel to her. Striking in person.

R42, actually my mother always found something "fishy" about the news reports. She always liked to say you had to "read between the lines" because for example, she was convinced George Bush would divorce Laura and run off with Condoleeza. When I told her Condi was a lesbian, she winked and said, "That's what you think!" She loved to speculate about one thing or another BTW: She loved watching CNN, and Paula, Ina and Emeril. She would Watch Paula Deen and claim he sons didn't like one another and the old guy she married was a drunk who would take all her money. Always injecting drama, just making things up. She loved Anderson Cooper more than life itself and she loved Sanjay Gupta. Ma was very inventive, and loved to imagine various scenarios. She was a staunch Democrat who hated Bill O'Reilly and never watched Fox News.

R64 much better than my mother, who believes everything Fox News says. Ugh. We would argue all the time. I don’t even bother anymore.

My stepdad is conservative but more open minded to issues etc. and doesn’t believe all he sees and hears. He is very much “read between the lines” and analyzing what is said. My mom, nope.

And my bio dad is like my mom, but with CNN and liberal news. He believes whatever they say.

I always thought Jackie had the looks in the family and John John took after her side. Caroline, unfortunately got all the Kennedy genes. They do not age well. And many of them had little to work with. I've never cared much for the Irish looks. Although if Bobby had his teeth fixed he would have been a much better looking guy than Jack. I am drawn to the swarthy Mediterranean types.

Mr. Handsome, John Kennedy Jr. He was 38 when he died.

I can't believe it was 22 years ago. I mean, it isn't something I contemplate, but 22 years... time's moving on.

R64 Condo is a MAJOR lezzie, just not the hot or appealing kind!

John Jr. Was what was called a " hunk" back then. I'm sure you remember those headlines everytime he failed the bar exam. " The hunk flunks!" I felt very sorry for him and thought that was a vicious thing to do to any person. Imagine not only failing, but having it blasted to everyone with snark and glee. Jackie must have been livid, I would have been. I also remember the fight he and Carolyn had in Central Park and how it made front news headlines for days. Can you imagine if we had social media then?

R70 he is the type who wouldn’t be on social media, or would be but hardly use it for anything but politics or to push some project of his (like George magazine).

You speak as if the term “hunk” isn’t known lol.

Lolol, no, I was only meant in context with headlines. I do miss those clever and humorous headlines. Honestly, I miss newspapers and magazines. There was a special enjoyment when about having to wait to read gossip and other news compared to having everything right at your fingertips. Stoping now as I feel an ancient artifact from the before time,😟.

R72 I feel that way about films and tv. I loved when you HAD TO go to the movies to see the movie, or wait months to a year for it to come to a video store. I miss video stores. You would find movies you never heard of and watch it. A lot of those movies never transitioned past VHS and didn’t make it to DVD/Blu-ray or streaming.

I miss weekly TV. Streaming all at once isn’t the same.

Is that true R55? Not doubting you, just I had read the Kennedy family and especially Ed Schlossberg strong armed the Bessette family at the time of the deaths/ funeral. Even if they relented over money in the end, and obviously there was some kind of settlement, I don’t recall the Kennedys behaving particularly well.

And if that was a valid claim, Jr and his wife didn’t have very good estate planning attorneys. Most wills/ trusts where there is family wealth at stake have a survivorship period of x days written in for just that kind of scenario.

R74 is right. I’m pretty sure the Kennedy’s weren’t ok with it and gave a hard time.

I compare it to sex, lol. We get quickies now. They are needed and wanted and give quick satisfaction. But we also want the slow, touch, feel, slowly, exquisitely taunting until every nerve ending in your body is on fire sex. That is the difference to me with instant media, music, and movies. I can't long for you if you never leave, lol!

Right, r43.. it’s her fault they died. 🙄

I read John’s body was totally bent backwards over the pilot seat.

I believe I saw that movie. It was called “Four Funerals and a Wedding”.

It was Christina Haag who took him to that church the first time. They discovered the island together. So John then could show CB a remote private place, perfect for a wedding.

R70 Ironically enough, Facebook was only 5 years away from becoming a thing when john died in that crash.

Social media was literally right around the corner.

Facebook was a thing in 2004? No.

I believe it launched in 2004.

R60 I saw Caroline on the Acela about 10 years ago. It was definitely after she had dropped out of her NY Senate tease. She was reading a binder of info about ocean life. I felt like it was a pitch some nonprofit had given her. She was sitting like a kid with her knees bent and her feet on the seat in front of her and one of the train conductors tapped the top of the seat and indicated she needed to take her feet off the seat. She did so without incident.

R83 it wasn’t a social media platform until 2008/2009. Before that it was only for college students.

Caroline was always very quiet and private. Her brother was the opposite

R52 Yes. That is 100% what it means. Like Marla Maples and Trump. Perhaps the poster is attempting to create a new definition of a term/word, as has been discussed about other terms/words.

I still pick my nose!

Everyone thought Caroline was the smart one. But she couldn’t explain why she hadn’t voted since 1988, couldn’t answer the most rudimentary policy questions, and said the words “you know” 235 times in 41 minutes when talking to reporters about her senate run. To two journalists from the New York Times who dared to press America’s princess on her candidacy she said: “Have you guys ever thought about, like, writing for a women’s magazine or something? I thought you were the crack political team.”

Within a month, Caroline withdrew from that race, citing that old Kennedy fallback: Family first. Her Uncle Ted’s health was in decline, and her children didn’t want her to run — even though Hillary’s seat had once been her Uncle Robert’s and so really belonged to her.

She is smart on paper but she isn’t eloquent. You can be intelligent but not well spoken.

If John jr was still alive, he'd probably have some type of media deal with a streaming service producing documentaries or he'd probably have a prime time show on MSNBC etc.

And a second wife!

He'd be an old whore like Matt Lauer. And you'd all make fun of him and moan about how beautiful he used to be.

She needed media training. Most PR offices offer it to their clients. I had the job in LA once. We had a couple of senator clients. We'd tape them on a set with a couple of chairs, have them answering questions...then we would play it back with them, and go over ways to help them increase their likability and visibility. Getting rid of the "you knows" and pregnant pauses is important. And a reminder to never ever insult a journalist no matter how lame their questions. Deflect but don't insult.

Caroline really thought she looked good here. Jackie rolled over.

Outta my way!

R95 It's the met gala, it's a costume ball. Everyone looks ridiculous at that event.

Right R97 but it takes a Lady Gaga to pull it off. Caroline should've glammed it up. But noooooooo. lol

Caroline might've felt if John wasn't going to do it, she'd try to run for Bobby's seat. But she colder than Hillary Clinton and not nearly as knowledgeable.

I don’t think DLers would be sighing at how beautiful 60 year old John Jr used to be because I’m certain with his genetics and athleticism etc. he would have aged very well. Some Beautiful men stay beautiful, they don’t all grow fat and ugly. Some grow more beautiful.

I feel someone like Trump in office would light a fire under his ass and he would get more involved in Politics afterwards (or during) his Presidency to take him down. I feel he would have hated Trump.

[quote]Besette family took the estate to court saying that since Jr. was in the front seat, he died first, so Carolyn inherited all of his estate in that moment and they should get all the $$ since they were her survivors.

[quote]Caroline K.B. took one look at it and told the lawyers: I lost my brother. Give them what they want - I don't fight over money

I really can't gat my head around that. Caroline, it seems, had some class.

Caroline has her own money so she probably didn't care about getting her brother's estate.

People on the Right insisted Hillary had John killed so she could run. They said if John had run, she would not even have got into the race, because it was his to lose. It was a mean ugly thing to say.

How was Hillary even able to n for a Senate seat in NY state, when her and Bill came from Arkansas to the white house, instead of NY state?

And when did they buy their up state house? I was in elementary school, so I missed out on the details of all of this.

I never understood how Hillary became a Senator in NY.

They moved to NY so she could become Senator.

R43 The accident was solely John's fault. He was the pilot; if it was too dark to take off he should have cancelled the flight or had an instructor fly with them. To try to blame even a small part of it on Carolyn is absurd. But that's Kennedy fanboys for you.

Don’t you need to be living in the state for a certain amount of time before you can run for senate?

Caroline used to host the Kennedy Center Honors in her monotone voice. I wonder how she got the gig.

John-John was too prideful to hire someone else last minute. He would have had to humble himself in order to say “I can’t do this” or even “I SHOULD NOT do this”. That was never gonna happen.

Poor Caroline didn't get any of the Bouvier genes. She looks like her horse-faced Kennedy aunts.

Regarding the wedding... a huge wedding would’ve been shocking. It was so not his (and evidently her) style. He would never want the media attention it would’ve gotten. I will say the wedding was drab looking. It was rustic and dark, literally, and seemed very claustrophobic from the pics I’ve seen.

It’s wild how long he’s been gone. Kind of crazy he didn’t have at least one kid to continue his legacy. That child would be hounded today and probably on every most eligible list.

I've always heard that Ed Schlossberg is a total prick.

I saw JFK Jr. on the street in NYC on three occasions in the mid/late 90s. He looked exactly the same in person as he did in pictures. Extremely handsome man. Even if he hadn't been famous and had just been some anonymous guy he still would've stopped traffic everywhere he went.

Exactly r107.

R100 is also a Kennedy delusionist. In his fantasy, a totally gorgeous, civic minded but still stupid John Dumb Kennedy Jr. would have left his estate to run for president to bring TRUMP down! Old gays are nuts. Stop living in the past.

JFK Jr. was hot. He liked drugs and superficial things. He was scared of his mommy. He had too much hair and was very vain. He would have some bad plastic surgery by now and a third wife who was once an actress. Maybe SJP. They would have little kids. John would be a conservative Democrat. He's been to rehab a number of times. Colors his hair.

R115 oh honey. We aren’t the delusional ones here.

I did a little google research about this claim about John’s estate. It does not appear to be true. Carolyn and Lauren ‘s family sued for wrongful death. It was settled by the families after 18 months of negotiation, so apparently Caroline did not simply immediately agree. There was some speculation as to whether the estate would pay the settlement or an insurance policy.

It also was reported John left many gifts to friends, family and charities, so the entirety did not go to the Bessette family.

Don't call me honey. I ain't some old white f@g. Save it for your DL grampa friends. You're drunk early today R116.

[quote] Besette family took the estate to court saying that since Jr. was in the front seat, he died first, so Carolyn inherited all of his estate in that moment and they should get all the $$ since they were her survivors.

I'm surprised there wasn't a "common disaster" clause. Roughly, if two people die together like that, they are considered to have predeceased each other (even though that's not technically possible). I.e., JFK Jr's fortune would have gone to somebody else and CB's fortune also goes to someone else.

R117 has it right. Caroline did not agree right away. There was a long battle over his money. A settlement was made, so they got money but not all of it.

The ONLY time the Kennedys paid for ANYTHING was when they were covering up murders and rapes. Or paying to have people murdered. They didn't even pay their hookers.

r115 is the mentally ill "ancient white fags" poster.

R121 poor Marilyn

[quote] He'd be an old whore like Matt Lauer. And you'd all make fun of him and moan about how beautiful he used to be.

Matt Lauer lost his hair prematurely. Based on the older Kennedys, JFK Jr. probably would have kept his hair. I think he would have aged similarly to George Clooney.

NEVER marry a Kennedy.

Believe me, I should know.

Caroline Kennedy Schlossberg's children inherited JFK Jr's fortune.

[quote] John F. Kennedy, Jr. and his wife, Caroline Bessette-Kennedy, died in a plane crash in July of 1999. Since Caroline did not survive him and he had no surviving children, his Will gave all of his property to the children of his sister, Caroline Kennedy Schlossberg, and a trust he established in 1983. His estate is estimated to be worth around a $100 million.

Poster above is right, though. Parents of the Bessettes got a wrongful death settlement.

R122 *IS* the ancient white fag!

He's a mean old INSANE bitch who stalks and harrasses posters all over this site. He has a pretty well known other name on DL. Check out his thousands of other posts. He's severely disturbed. F&F R122.

I'm European. Kennedy was goodlooking - but only his body was hot. I see better looking men everyday, on the street.

He knew he wasn’t equipped to reinvent the wheel which is why he wanted to be an actor. He knew where his strengths laid. I still shudder at the utterly horrific way they perished. Seems surreal. Time goes fast.

I thought that there was some kind of undisclosed settlement given to Caroline Bessette’s family. However, they didn’t get the majority of his estate, which went to various charities and trusts.

One thing I do remember happening was that the Kennedy family came down like a ton of bricks - legally speaking - on the search and rescue effort in order to make sure nothing was leaked to the press.

That’s why none of the underwater video that was taken when they finally found the plane has surfaced over the years.

R129 I always wondered why photos of their bodies and that video don’t exist online. I know they take photos etc.

I’ve always been curious to see what they looked like when found.

College buddy David Cicilline is posting a different commemoration.

R131 two different days. John Jr. died on July 16th. John Lewis died July 17th.

If JFK Jr wasn’t killed due to his own hubris and ADHD. There was a reason why Jackie was vehemently against him taking up flying as hobby. She knew about his shortcomings and as his mother she knew it wouldn’t end well.

Had he not died he’d be aging like Alec Baldwin today. Former hottie who ages normally without help from cosmetic procedures. Probably on his second or third wife. Not working and living off sizable trust fund or perhaps working on loony causes like his cousin the anti-vaxxer. George the magazine would’ve been kaput within 2-3 years had he not died.

CBK was definitely stylish clothing-wise. But she had a mannish face with those thinly plucked eyebrows that betray neurotic and obsessive personality. No one should ever do that to their own eyebrows and think they look good.

I feel so bad for the Bessette family. First they lose 2 daughters, then they are bullied. I never understood why the sister was buried at sea in that haphazardly put together funeral. The Kennedys, and apparently Schlossberg, use their power for cover ups and to get what they want, hence no pictures/video of the wreckage. They certainly cannot relate at all to the average American. Glad their time has ended.

Does Patrick Schwarzenegger ever pride himself in being blood related to John John?

[quote] CBK was definitely stylish clothing-wise. But she had a mannish face with those thinly plucked eyebrows that betray neurotic and obsessive personality. No one should ever do that to their own eyebrows and think they look good.

Those thinly-plucked eyebrows (half-moon shape) were popular for a brief time in the '90s. Drew Barrymore plucked her eyebrows like that.

The Bessettes got $25 million from the Kennedy’s in the wrongful death lawsuit.

Certainly no money can make up for the loss of the 2sisters.

I believe Carolyn and Lauren had a sibling.

Didn't Michael Bergin fuck guys, as well?

Didn't like his hair, at all.

His hair was skeevy. Likely looks better now, R139.

R138 no. 🙄 most men are straight. Most men aren’t fucking men too. Especially back then.

R137, they did. I googled her and this article came up. I never heard the part about the mom’s toast at the wedding and thinking it wasn’t a good match. I would think that would be very odd to insinuate at their wedding.

He was a beautiful man 👨😢😍

excuse me, they ran into bad weather coz the fucking women were late! I can't remember who it was, I think it was the sister coz she had a finance job and was running late or that whore who was probably too busy looking in the mirror to notice the time.

granted it was a bad decision on his part coz he hurt his leg...but it was too late to be flying and they were rushing to go to a wedding. Must have been the worst wedding ever.

oh please Alec Baldwin is a lazy cunt who doesn't exercises and he's not even half as hot as JFK Jr.

JFK Jr loved working out, he would have kept his figure.

[quote] He never would have been piloting a plane if Jackie were alive. She wouldn't have allowed it.

This may be news to you, but even former First Ladies as glamorous as Jackie do not have the power to disallow what their 38 year-old children do.

Marry a crazy bitch like Bessette and this is what happens. Nota bene Prince Harry.

I can't believe he was only 38. He seemed like an "older man" to me at the time. Now I realize how young he was.

[quote]I’ve always been curious to see what they looked like when found.

R130, The fuck?

Didn’t JFK Jr crash the plane bc of spatial disorientation? I’ll bet they find out that’s what happened to Tarzan/Joe Lara too.

CBK was timeless, plucked eyebrows & all. Like JKO she wasn’t a classic beauty, but beautiful nonetheless. Her clothing choices are timeless too. Hard to find a photo of her that looks dated. She was a hot mess & I don’t think she loved him but you gays that keep criticizing her looks are off in left field with that

I remember thinking that day "Well, I guess I'm binning the fantasy of that three-way."

We all have different ways of grieving...

so much stuff has come out about Bessette since their deaths- she was screwing her ex - they were headed for divorce- they were already late leaving the airport because of her - they were probably fighting like hell in the plane and that led to the crash

According to the article at R142, the wrongful death settlement is reported to have been $15 million. Earlier in the thread someone said $25 million.

yes, I think the marriage was in trouble. He was staying in a hotel

I really don't believe Caroline told the Bessette family "take whatever you want, I just lost my brother", etc. Caroline inherited what one observer called her mother's "money lust." I don't see her as being generous at all, or exhibiting any real "class."

Wasn’t he accusing her of cheating? He knew she was still fucking her ex but she was in denial

The responsibility for the plane crashing cannot lie with Carolyn or her sister running late but rather with the pilot. It was absolutely his responsibility to fly only in safe conditions, and conditions were not safe when he took off from the airport.

It was John-John's fault, and his alone.

Was it ever really proven she cheated on Jr. besides what Bergen said? I think whatever he claimed should be taken with a grain of salt since he was trying to sell a book. I do think the marriage was in trouble and wouldn’t have lasted had they lived. As for Caroline, I read that she and her brother weren’t on good terms at the time of his death and she never liked Carolyn.

Caroline's a stingy, vindictive bitch. Their mother's former housekeeper had an apartment John had given her. She had published a cookbook (with John's blessing) about what she cooked for Jackie. After John's death, Caroline threw her out.

Rich idiot kills himself with hubris

I was at 1515 on another title when we bought the GEORGE idea. In comes a new staff on a new-magazine start-up. It was little different from any other publishing venture, but, gasp, there was, daily, John Kennedy, Jr. Just a nice guy, very handsome, beautifully raised, NOT DUMB and only average in his prevention of himself. He never came off as "bright" or really "a smart one." Just another guy, albeit stunning However, down on Road & Track a space salesman was more handsome! Knowing Jr., seeing him daily, it made you wonder how so many living on their computers in mothers' basements knew so much about him, ALL TOTALLY WRONG.

Also knowing Jr. made you wonder how horrible it has to be to make yourself ignore all the hoo-hah made at your every move, entrance and exit. Strangers close to you eying your hairy wrists, sneaking looks at your crouch, looking for a bulge. Whew! So ok, big Irish handsome lug of a guy he was!

His quiet marriage was perfect for his family social caste. Certainly they'd not marry in Davis Park! Or Nags Head. Or one of numerous south-east sea islands. Don't know Cumberland Island? Well, why would you? But they knew, important that.

What JFK Jr. didn't know, sadly, was his new toy and his limitation the night of the tragic flight to their death. I well remember late-night radio reports the plane was overdue. The early-morning reports of no news, no plane, possible disaster. There was a terrible sense of loss that weekend

R136 true but Drew’s eyebrows were practically bushy compared to what CBK did to hers. Hers were plucked to oblivion.

I was watching the coverage and a reporter was saying that some debris had washed up, showed one of Lauren's business cards, didn't think to cover the phone number. I had a pen and paper handy, jotted it down and called. Her voice was lovely; the request to leave a message was straightforward. I had a brief temptation to leave some insane message like, "I know you're furious because you're carrying John's baby and he's threatening you with all sorts of ugliness if you don't get an abortion, but you can't shoot him in the head and cause a plane crash."

R55 here.....other posters have corrected my post. I guess I dreamed it or read it in the Enquirer.

Most of Jr's money went to his nieces and nephew......and the settlement, as has been posted, was for the wrongful death suit that the Bessette's brought against the estate......most popular amount is $15 million....

But whatever it was, it was likely paid by insurance rather than from the estate.

He attended the Democratic convention in 1988, and made a speech. I was there and saw him walking down a hallway at the convention center, I was surprised at how tall he was, and yes, he looked exactly like his pictures.

I believe everything about Carolyn having a temper and loving to emasculate him. Hell, it was caught on video. But everyone demonizing her and those types of women need to remember that these idiot straight men CHOSE that. He clearly wanted that on some level to have married her. Same for Meghan and Harry and Asia Argento and Anthony Bourdain. The women are nuts, but these men aren't victims.

The overplucked eyebrows of the 90s are not nearly as grating as these 2 micro bladed eyebrows, Like Ee-laria’s. Basically, I hate all eyebrow trends. Just work with what you’ve got, keep them shaped up & filled in but avoid the drastic grooming measures that literally make you look like someone else

[quote]Had he not died he’d be aging like Alec Baldwin today.

And I would be married to eem! Cuchi-cuchi!

[quote]Didn't Michael Bergin fuck guys, as well?

R138, where did you hear this?

JFK Jr. most likely was having affairs as well. He was young, gorgeous, rich, famous, charming, and a Kennedy. Maybe Carolyn Bessette felt entitled to do the same.

At one point, before the marriage, JFK Jr. broke up with CB and got back together with Darryl Hannah. CB's mom told her to get on with her life.

Everything about this accident screams rich idiot, just like Kobe's. I woke up the morning of Kobe's crash (pretty close to the flight path) and thought: Holy fuck it's FOGGY

he sure was a pretty idiot

In Bergen's book he quotes the ice princess Carolyn Bessette despair over not being with the man she really loved: "I don't want to be with John! I want to be with you! What are we gonna do?!" I think Bergen was full of shit. But it's possible she cheated on John with him. That seems like something she would do.

She was fucking Bergin for years and stopped when she got serious with John. She’s the one who introduced Michael to CK and he was their home habana boy, who would serve drinks to CK and company in a banana hammock. After CK lost his big shot Marky Mark, he offered Michael the gig as the face of CK men’s underwear, and the rest is history.

They both seem like kind of shitty people.

Someone on one of these threads at one point posted that he knew Bergin personally and he was the type of person who knew that he was attractive to gay men and knew how to work that to his advantage, but he did not personally fuck guys.

I think Bergin's book claimed that Carolyn slept with him at various points while she was involved with JFK Jr. I don't remember whether this was before or after they got married. I like Carolyn's style, but I could see her pulling that shit to fuck with John. These women view it all as a game to them.

A lot of hot straight men know how to work gay men using their looks and charm. It’s common these days. Look at the instahoes. They do it to bait gays and make $$ off them because they know many gay men are willing to roll over for hot straight guys.

Michael Bergin was ahead of his time.

R134 did you want them to show the wreckage?

You do realize the Kennedys are a wealthy elite family right? They were never really public servants, they were always about power brokering and money. Real public servants are the ones who are at the grassroots level, activists and community organizers. The Kennedys were never any of that, they always operated from a place of elite establishment power.

They we're always Strictly Washington. John and Jackie lived in Georgetown for crying out loud. They we're never men and women of the people. It's like Gore vidal said, if jackie was ever asked to do anything for the people. She'd say " go ask Ethel to do it." But Hillary Clinton who was a first lady who tried to get health care for everyone, was demonized at every corner, and Jackie who did anything for anyone was so beloved, but for what? Because she was stylish and glamorous?

I find the Kennedys interesting just as many others do. But they we're very much apart of the elite and about power money and control just as most other people in their position are.

The Kennedys were never of the people to begin with. They were more obsessed with being excepted by the WASP elite than they were with the common everyday man and woman of America.

And on top of that, after JFK's assassination. Jackie moved back to NYC to a luxury fifth Avenue apartment in a very exclusive hard to get into building. Of course her being a former American first lady, the welcome mate was laid out for her to move right in.

Jackie was a fifth Avenue society lady, that's not exactly someone whose of the people. People like her travel in very elite hard to get into circles.

That's just the way it is.

I never admired the Kennedys after reading Seynour Hersch's book The Dark Side of Camelot. They were trash and Bobby Kennedy probably had both Marilyn Monroe and JFK's mistress Mary Pinchot Meyer.

Only decent members of the family were Eunice and Sargent Shriver and Jackie and Bobby hated them.

R181, I don’t believe that’s true. Maria and Caroline are best friends, and Sargent was very involved with both JFK and RFK campaigns. Seymour Hersch is an excellent reporter, but I believe his hatred of the Kennedys colored his judgment.

182 posts and no chat about John John's magnificent Johnson?

..had both Marily and Meyer murdered- Marilyn was threatening JFK and had called Jackie on the phone to say she was screwing her husband. Meyer kept a diary of her long affair with JFK, a diary which disappeared the day of her murder.

Can someone please explain. John looked like his mom and his dad. But his hair was Italian. Never seen that texture on an Irishman or a Frenchman.

Yes, John John does have a more Italian vibe. Unlike either parent

R184, JFK died before Meyer. JFK’s father had a stroke two years before and didn’t have the wherewithal to do anything. Who do you propose killed Meyer?

R172 I live in the San Jose and the fog was really bad even up here on the morning Kobe crashed I’d never seen it so bad.

Always thought John was Agnelli's kid. Which would also explain why Caroline had his body cremated instead of burying him with their parents. Can't dig up the DNA.

R189, nah. Look at photos of JFK when he was young. Looks exactly like his son.

Like I said, JFK was hot when he was a young guy.

Big cock genes through the Bouviers, however.

However, I still don’t see John John in that photo. R190

John John had an Italian look. Neither parents (or any Kennedy) had that.

Jackie's father had swarthy looks.

R193, ummm you don’t see Jr in that pic? The eyes and brows are identical. And the dark looks come from his mother.

I have no idea why Jackie Kennedy was so admired. As First Lady, she was a patron of the arts and dressed stylishly and that was IT. She was pretty lazy would not deign to do very much when it came to interacting with the American people. I heard she stood up a group of girl scouts who had come to the White House to see her. Of course she was revered for being the tragic widow of JFK. But then she upped and married a filthy rich uncouth Greek so SHE could be filthy rich. Her admirers say she married him for "security" but that's bullshit; she was far from destitute after JFK died. She was just plain greedy. While Onassis died was on his deathbed she was traipsing around Europe. He was going to divorce her but died before he could get rid of her. After his death she exhibited no grief and was even smiling at his funeral. She got a huge payout from Onassis's estate; Christina Onassis just wanted to get rid of her. She then lived her wealthy, privileged life, finding "work" as an editor and finding a new "companion" who just happened to be a married man. What's to admire about someone like THAT?

I love how Jackie O saw Speed the Plow and detected that Madonna was not only naturally untalented but just … off. Not right.

He was soon convinced to dump her sociopathic, trash ass.

R196 Jackie was basically a fabulous wealthy socialite. She's pretty much what every gay man on DL wants to be. Wealthy world famous beautiful stylish chic glamorous iconic, and can have any man they want.

I think that's why so many people on this site hates Jackie. They may not wanna be her, but they want to live a version of her life. Minus the tragedies of course. The same can be said about her sister Lee.

R142, That NY Post link has an article actually titled ".....the Death of JFK Jr and TWO OF HIS FRIENDS."

W T A F?!

[quote] and only average in his prevention of himself.

What does this mean??

I don't get the Jackie KO love.

Ladybird (Claudia) Johnson and Grace Coolidge were exemplary widowed former First Ladies and we rarely hear them mentioned.

Wasn’t Jackie’s father known as Black Jack Bouvier?

Was this because he was dark?

JFK Senior's eyes were too close together. Jackie's eyes were too far apart. JFK Junior's eyes were spaced just right.

R202 - yes, he was already dark and was a sun-worshipper and even used early versions of tanning beds.

R202 he was naturally dark and would get darker by tanning.

Seems like such a long time ago.

[quote] But Hillary Clinton who was a first lady who tried to get health care for everyone, was demonized at every corner, and Jackie who did anything for anyone was so beloved, but for what? Because she was stylish and glamorous?

They were two very different women from very different generations.

[quote]Can someone please explain. John looked like his mom and his dad. But his hair was Italian. Never seen that texture on an Irishman or a Frenchman.

And one of DL's time travelers from the mid-20th Century has joined the thread, as usual.

JFK Jr. looked a lot like Jackie's father.

His hair was thick and wavy, but that cut did him no favors -- he did basically have guido hair.

where's the pic of John next to a pic of a young Gianni Agnelli

I think R183 shows his hair at its worst; and OP's photo shows it at its best.

Yeah he could be Gianni’s kid, I see it.

Wasn't he bisexual? He was an incredibly beautiful but rather dim-witted rich kid with family prestige who got away with being mediocre. Apparently, he wanted to be an actor or model but Jackie would not allow that. She should have because his beauty could have been captured in more ways than one. He went from a sexy curly-haired twink to a sexy hairy daddy then died.

No. He was not bisexual 🙄

He was hetero and someone who was willing to speak out in favor of gay rights long before most and when it wasn’t cool. He was for equality for all.

I remember when Mike Tyson was behind bars, he said Tyson (and other black men) are not treated fairly and he was behind bars because he is black, and white men do the same stuff he’s done but aren’t in prison for it. That was the late 80s I believe.

He was very liberal, especially for that time.

Below he speaks about gay rights.

Remember when he got pissed at the paparazzi and dumped water over his head? He was always so polite but he had it that day.

JFK Jr. was conceived during the 1960 Presidential campaign. Every minute of Jackie's day was scheduled and her whereabouts a matter of public record. Agnelli was not Jr.'s father.

Ugh he was so good looking. It was impossible for him to look bad. Even just being recorded while walking. And he was so polite.

I encourage you all to watch “I Am JFK Jr”. It was terrific. I loved it.

Carolyn’s poor mother. From the happiness of seeing your daughter marry the world’s most eligible bachelor to…that. Talk about depths of misery.

Would you think twice about marrying a Kennedy? I would.

Wow R216. Never saw that before. He would have been on of our greatest straight allies had he lived.

[quote] Poor Caroline didn't get any of the Bouvier genes. She looks like her horse-faced Kennedy aunts.

Her daughter Rose got some of the Bouvier looks. Rose probably thanks her lucky stars that she's not fugly like the other daughter Tatiana.

On one of the JFK Jr. threads there was a post by a guy who was involved in a cycling accident with JFK Jr. Afterwards they sat on the grass and chatted and John gave the guy his phone number which he then lost. I think he's still kicking himself.

R222 100% he was standing for racial and gay politics and I respect him for that, especially with the gay rights because gays truly didn’t have them back then. It was so taboo, so for someone so famous and respected and adored like him to show support and love was a big deal.

[quote]no Kennedy ever died of a curse, most died because of hubris

Jack and Bobby were assainated. Joe Jr - their brother - died in an airplane explosion in WWII. Kathleen, their sister, was killed in a plane crash in1948 flying from Paris to the Rivera. The hubris!

*Riviera

My grandma always felt like he was gonna die young, and never knew why. I was heartbroken when that feeling she had came true.

There was always a dark circle around him in my eyes. Not that he was dark, but something followed him.

I read along time ago that the payout to the Besettes came out of the plane's insurance policy not junior's estate.

The Kennedys may have been part of the elite class, but Bobby became very passionate about American poverty in the last five years of his life. I think his brother's assassination radicalized him and transformed his convictions.

I don't see the Agnelli thing. JFK Jr had Kennedy hair. They all have that massively thick head of hair. John's hair was just darker due to his Bouvier side. Even his nephew has the same thick dark head of curly hair and he has nothing to do with Gianni Agnelli.

I doubt John would have became President as people keep proposing. He clearly didn't have the narcissistic impulse to run for Presidency and he seemed more on the introverted side. He was most comfortable being an idle rich socialite who just looked good for the paps. Politics was something that was forced onto him. Just because his father was a narcissist and alpha male but that doesn't mean he was.

The issue with him was he was not driven enough to get into Politics. He was very complacent, and why wouldn’t he be? He was gorgeous and rich and could have anyone he wanted.

If he did get into Politics it would be much later in life.

But I can’t see him being disciplined enough for any of it.

I grew up in the city but unfortunately never saw John around town. I know people who did and they saw he was really tall in person.

John John wasn’t an ambitious man. Good thing he was born into money and elitism.

It seems like Carole Radziwill is the only person who ever had nice things to say about Carolyn over the years.

R232 no worries, neither did I, but my mother and aunt did a few times. My aunt saw him rollerblading in Central Park once and was tempted to throw herself in front of him on person, with him a few feet away, so he can stop and help her up and hopefully fall for her 😂 she was early 20s at the time.

Thank God she never did that.

Thank you r220, I'm going to watch that. I've never heard of it before.

R237 you’re welcome. I saw it in 2016, a couple months after it came out. Rented it on Apple TV. It was terrific. Loved it, and made me so sad because he really had so much potential on top of his beauty and charm.

Yes, everyone knows John had a big Irish cock

Not sure it was really that big...nice but not stunning.

Looked it up. JFK jr was born on November 25, 1960, a couple of weeks early. So he was conceived in early March 1960. Jackie didn't campaign with jFK and was rarely seen during the early campaign. JFK was fucking her future secretary Pamela Turnure. A nosy neighbor photographed him during the campaign coming out of her apartment and gave the photos to reporters who refused to report on his screwing around.

Jackie could very well have had a liaison with Agnelli during this time - he was frequently in the US - or she could have gone to Italy without the media noticing. JFK barely noticed what she was doing, he was far too busy screwing everything that moved.

When JFK Jr. was born, JFK didn't bother going to the hospital to see his son claiming he was too busy preparing his administration. Really? When Patrick died in hospital, JFK was reportedly extremely distraught.

R245 he was gorgeous. We all know. The whole world has been speaking of his beauty since he was a teen.

Great ass on that boy. It's amazing how many responses JFK Jr. threads still get. A lot of Boomers here. My brother's kids who were born in the late 90s have no idea who he was.

Damn shame he never got fully nude. He seemed like an exhibitionist, showing off for the paparazzi.

In a surreal moment, was sitting on the steps of one of the main central buildings on campus at my college just before Easter break waiting for a ride home (I was a commuting student), at the same school where their cousin David was enrolled, when he and sister Caroline came down the steps and walked away from the building, beautifully dressed and completely oblivious whether there was anyone or anything around them. Not in a snobby way, simply unmindful of any of that. Sorry for the cliché statement but, yes, my jaw dropped because it's true that he was that drop-dead gorgeous in person, even more so than in photos of him. Can't believe he'd be 60 now.

In the JFK Jr. doc, someone said "Most people get into politics for one of or a combination of three reasons: it's for money; it's for power; or it's for fame. John had all three the day he was born."

Should have gotten naked. Damn Jackie forcing him into law and politics when he was just a pretty himbo who probably would have stripped down for to do some "art film" by a gay director. Had he got to pursue his acting dream. Probably would had nude leaks.

Like others here, I also think John would be a sexy silver daddy fox had he lived. He would be a handsome middle aged man like his cousin Chris Kennedy Lawford who died recently.

He was one of the most famous people in America and today my teenaged nieces and nephews really don't even know who he was.

Time moves on.....

So handsome and happy go lucky .

He looked nothing like Agnelli, who was ugly as a dog's ass.

I lived in NYC 15 years and never saw him either. Nor Jackie. Nor Andy Warhol, speaking of famous New Yorkers who walked around then. I did see Lee once, and Woody Alan a couple of times. Oh and Quentin Crisp on a bus.

Jackie was in Wisconson in March 1960. She was on the campaign trail constantly.

I've lived in NYC since the 90s and have yet to see Fran Lebowitz.

He should have gone into politics. He would have won elections easily. I don't how good a politician he would have been, though. He wasn't that bright. But I think if he had had good people guiding him he would have done well enough.

[quote] He should have gone into politics. He would have won elections easily. I don't how good a politician he would have been, though. He wasn't that bright. But I think if he had had good people guiding him he would have done well enough.

That's a shallow and stupid reason to enter politics. Yes, he would have won votes easily based on his physical attractiveness and family name rather than merit. But what is the point of even doing that if you're not even interested. He would have just have been a puppet for whatever forces were behind him. Plus that would have destroyed his integrity which is actually something that made him stand out compared to his obnoxious family.

R256 What did Lee look like in person? She always looked like an emaciated bird in photos.

Lee was pretty damn scary-looking in her later years.

R261 Good description. Tiny and birdlike, enormous cotton candy bouffant, sunglasses. This was the early 90s I would say, and she was with Herbert Ross.

It was a sad ending

Lee Radziwill was a no account bitch who was such a bad mother that Jackie left her out of her will and instead left millions to her kids.

Jackie had Lee's two kids live with her for an extended period of time because Lee was such a shit mother and a drunk.

I never saw him, but my first job out of college was in the office building a block or two over from his. I started there a year or two after he died. One woman who I worked with had seen him numerous times outside the building and she said he always looked very tense and stressed. Not sure if it was because the magazine was failing or his marriage. Someone else I knew never thought he was attractive until she saw him in person and said he was absolutely breathtaking.

As far as his paternity, come on, he’s a Kennedy. The same rumors circulate about all these people, look at Prince Harry. Same can be said about secret surrogates. There were rumors Kate used a surrogate, then the same with Meghan. It’s fiction.

JFK Jr was Irish on his father's side and French on his mother's side. Many Irish have a dark swarthy look and there's a genetic connection to the Iberian Peninsula that spans thousands of years. France is a Mediterranean country and a lot of French have darker complexions. So John looked exactly like what he was, Irish and French.

For al the Jackie-bashers.

The bitch saved

Grand

Central

Terminal

For this and this alone, she has a get-out-of-jail card from me.

As she should from anyone who has two eyeballs and a commute.

Jackie cared about architecture and preserving important buildings. She would be appalled at the giant glass condo towers in today's Manhattan.

In 1987 worked for a company in Century City . We had heard that JFK Jr was interning with a law firm two floors above us. Of course everyone was desperate to catch a glimpse of John-John, especially my BF Rosanna. Going for lunch with her . Elevator door opens. Packed with grey Armani suites. Tall guy steps aside squeezes to back to let us in. JFK Jr. I elbow Rosanna once, twice,tree times hard, she is oblivious. He is standing right next to her. Door opens we all pile out. Ro : "Fuck you almost broke my rib what's wrong with you!" Me: "John-John standing next to you. " Ro: Yeah right!. I loved her dearly but in the chandelier of life she was a 5 Watt bulb.

"Jackie cared about architecture and preserving important buildings."

But she didn't care about people. She didn't give a shit about the American people. She was just a rich bitch who didn't deign to associate with "the little people."

She was a woman of a certain class, why would she?

You know what they all had, and have, the Kennedys, Bouviers, Schlossbergs, etc.?

Thick, long-lasting hair. Enviable hair.

R272, Would you have had Jackie go to the local bingo hall?

I saw Jackie once when I was a student. She was walking into the Lausanne Palace which Onassis owned back then. A luxury hotel but not the most luxurious in Lausanne. Her hair was dyed dark red which surprised me. She wore those enormous sunglasses. I discreetly followed her into the lobby of the hotel and loitered a while. A bunch of hotel employees ran up to her. End of story.

I saw Jackie on Assistance cashing her welfare check at the dog track.

I saw Caroline walking her dog on the upper east side years ago. She's a lot shorter than I thought she'd be.

It's always sad when hot people die.

I was a twink on vacation in Miami when this happened. I remember being glued to the tv with my cousin & my aunt.

r138 The Calvin Klein contract proves it.

Caroline's a stingy, vindictive bitch. Their mother's former housekeeper had an apartment John had given her. She had published a cookbook (with John's blessing) about what she cooked for Jackie. After John's death, Caroline threw her out.

bullshit, Marta Sgubin still lives in that apartment and was photographed arriving with Caroline and family to Lee Radziwills' funeral.

How old is Marta Sgubin now? Didn't she raise Caroline and John as well as Caroline's kids. She must be pushing 90.

[quote] Carolyn’s poor mother. From the happiness of seeing your daughter marry the world’s most eligible bachelor to…that. Talk about depths of misery

I wouldn't waste my sympathies on the likes of her. Given the vapid, neurotic, bitchy mess that CBK was it's very likely that her family was the typically cold, selfish, cruel type where social standing, money, and appearances are valued over warmth or human relationships. Her family was probably relieved that she died while still married to JFK Jr. without having gone through the glare of publicity that would have ensued during her inevitable divorce. CBK died while still in the public eye and never had to claw her way through broken glass to stay relevant as she grew older. I feel the 15 million settlement would have done wonders for the family's "grief". A nice return on their "investment".

well said r284

I watched a documentary abt the Cumberland Island wedding by one of the attendees - a friend of JFK Jr. It was very interesting.

R284 doesn't have kids.

R271, that story might be interesting if any of us actually knew your friend Rosanna.

Eldergays are really obsessed with this guy. Why? He wasn't even that handsome and looks like he had lollipop head syndrome and big 80s hair.

If they had made a big Hollywood biopic about JFK Jr in the 2000s, Gwyneth could have been perfect as Carolyn. One plastic, neurotic, vapid bitch playing another. Goop may have won another Oscar playing her.

I always thought Carolyn was so chic and striking even if she wasn’t beautiful. Doomed marriage tho.

Why did he not marry Sarah Jessica Parker? If only that had happened we would all have been spared the decades of nonsense that was SATC, at least with Sarah. Sigh!

I 'll always remember the headline when this happened - "The Hunk who Sunk".

I hope people know most of the stories on here about seeing or meeting him are nonsense. One person even got the timeline of his marriage wrong upon rubbing shoulders with him lmao

He wasn’t a himbo. He was athletic and always active. Who goes out rollerblading or biking in full clothes during NYC summer? He wore shorts and not shirt, like many men in NYC.

And some of you think if he wasn’t pushed into law somehow he would be posing nude. He was a man born into fame, wealth and power. His family is an elite family. You think he’s going to hurt their reputation being fully nude and borderline pornographic? When you’re from a family like that you have an image to maintain. He would lose much respect.

Wait a minute r294, you mean a post about some ancient nu yak idol/star/legend gets fantasized. the humanity

Let’s be honest even if he’d gone int acting I doubt he would have been competing with river Phoenix and the other sensitive for the gay roles. He would have ended up a sort of George clooney -lite. A leading man for a few movies until the next flavour of the month showed up.

First time I saw him was at Saks. We were both pawing through a rack of pants on sale. Didn't say anything to him, but thought of a lot of snarky things I might have. Second time was in Soho years later. He was walking with a friend. Took my breath away, his beauty did.

"As poets have mournfully sung/Death comes to the innocent young/To the rolling in money/To the screamingly funny/And to those who are very well hung."

That JFK Jr. documentary was pretty boring. WAY too much of Chris Cuomo coming off like John's BFF. "John wasn't a pansy. . . " Shut up Chris.

I do have a “something nice” to say about Carolyn BK. She was a good tipper. I remember a college friend waited on them at a restaurant on the Vineyard and Carolyn said something nice like, “oh I waited tables too in college, I remember those days well” and left a big tip.

[quote] Let’s be honest even if he’d gone int acting I doubt he would have been competing with river Phoenix and the other sensitive for the gay roles. He would have ended up a sort of George clooney -lite. A leading man for a few movies until the next flavour of the month showed up.

As long as he shows his ass and cock then it's all good. Hopefully he would be a better actor than Clooney.

R302 there was no indication of talent for acting. I think he’s have been a clothes horse. If he were still on good terms with sjp he could have played mr. Big or one of her boyfriends on that show.

SJP was cute when she was young. Not beautiful or anything. She scored a lot of hot and gay-seeming guys like JFK Jr and Robert Downey Jr. She even married Matthew Broderick.

He wouldn’t be a regular. He would be a guest star.

He didn’t take acting seriously either. We are speaking about a boy born with millions of dollars waiting for him. He would have done something and moved on. I doubt he would take it as serious as some think he would. It would be like a side hobby for him.

I wish I owned all the GEORGE issues

He was serious about it but Jackie forbade it as she thought it was lower class

It kind of kills his appeal that he was such a mama's boy and did whatever Jackie said. I don't think that's normal for a grown ass man like him to be that fearful of his mother. And if he couldn't stand up to her for what he believed in. Then how could he have been President?

I think the fact he was a mama's boy is sexy. They were both protective of the other and after all they'd been through together I can see why.

R289, "He wasn't even that handsome...." There's always one contrarian in the bunch, the kind who must pretend that Elizabeth Taylor was ugly; that Olivier couldn't act his way out of a paper bag; or that Mme Curie really plagiarized from her husband.

You know, the stupid kind of contrarian.

Did he have a real personality, I don’t see it much. But he was good looking enough, it probably didn’t matter. Everything he did seemed sort of “expected” I mean he starts a political magazine for Chrissakes. Nothing he did screamed “passionate” it was just simply going through the motions. Even his choice of gfs and wives was rather pedestrian, all sort of mannequin looking.

I think the best thing for him would have been to break away from the family maybe try living away from them in another country or another state or on another coast.

And letting someone else fly the plane!

R309 Really? That's not healthy. These are two adults who are needy and codependent. Usually when the child gets to an adult age, the parents become their peer rather than remain an authority figure. I don't think it's sexy if you're dating or married to someone who still does whatever their mothers says and needs her constant approval.

JFK Jr. had his own life to live and Jackie should have just let him be happy and not continue to put the burden of the Kennedy legacy onto his shoulders. She was acting very selfish and made him do what she wanted him to do. He probably could have never pleased her because she was so neurotic. If he stood up to her more often and maybe cut off a lot of his family, he would have been much happier and well-adjusted.

R284 Damn you’re a cold bitch.

I remember in another thread a DL poster mentioned his sister conversing with JFK Jr at the DNC and said “there was no there there.” I kind of believe that. Nice guy but maybe somewhat shallow?

Also, I didnt realize Caroline graduated in the top ten percent of her class at Columbia Law School and that she has been separated from Schlossberg since 2015. She reminds me so much of the slightly bitchy, no-nonsense but ultimately good-hearted Boston Brahmin women I knew back in the day. I kind of like her from afar

I don’t know what’s more insane, R284’s post or the fact that it was endorsed 7x.

People judging the parent-child relationships between Jackie and her offspring as too dependent or too smothering or too controlling have no clue, no idea, and furthermore no earthly possibility of an inkling of understanding of the physical, mental, emotional, and psychological toll visited upon those two dynamics by the unimaginably horrific experience of Jackie on 11/22/63, compounded by the slaying on 6/6/68.

Protecting her children to an extent beyond what the rest of us might consider normal should, I believe, be forgiven as beyond our thankful ken.

R318 LOL she wasn't protecting him. He was a rich good-looking white guy with a famous last name, he was better off than 99% of the world. The point is JFK Jr was a grown man and she was treating him like a child. Controlling his education, career choices and choice of partners was not protecting him. If she truly loved him, she would have let him make his own choices. Also how is entering law and politics more safe than pursuing performance arts? Jackie was a narcissistic mother, no sugarcoating things. BTW, women from working class and marginalized backgrounds protect their children by teaching them to be independent and disciplining them to learn consequences. He was a spoiled and sheltered rich kid.

[quote] People judging the parent-child relationships between Jackie and her offspring as too dependent or too smothering or too controlling have no clue, no idea, and furthermore no earthly possibility of an inkling of understanding of the physical, mental, emotional, and psychological toll visited upon those two dynamics by the unimaginably horrific experience of Jackie on 11/22/63, compounded by the slaying on 6/6/68.

Tell that to Black people, Native Americans, poor whites or the gay and lesbians who existed around that time. What the Kennedy clan dealt with was a walk in the park compared to what real poor people, people of color and sexual minorities were dealing with for generations. The Kennedys were privileged spoiled brats who chose to enter politics. They didn't have to and politics has always been a dangerous field. Poor people and minorities didn't choose their existence.

I don’t think she overprotected him to that extent. He dated who wanted to, lived where he wanted to, basically did what he wanted to etc. I think the only thing she steered him away from was acting, and that’s because she knew he would only be pandered to and exploited for who he was, not because of his talents. Other than that, I never read how she controlled his life in other ways, but I don’t know that much about them so if proven wrong that’s ok.

R320, I don’t deny the groups you mentioned haven’t suffered but come on. The family lost two brothers to assassinations within five years. Can’t we acknowledge there was suffering without implying that because one suffered more, the other one doesn’t count? I would imagine it devastated the family dynamic.

R319, I'm not sugar-coating, but you are opining as though the Kennedy experiences of assassinations, constant paparazzi, and the expectations of the world are just run-of-the-mill "rich people's worries." And FTR, my decidedly Middle-Middle Class mother did her best to keep me from being independent. So much for generalizing.

R320, You are preaching to an extremely knowledgeable choir here. I get it.

I've read "Bury My Heart At Wounded Knee" and think much more needs to be taught in our public schools---and discussed in the media and political spheres; I mean, "reparations," hello?---about the indigenous Americans and genocidal 19th C. policies. I've taught Black literature and poetry, and could out-Langston Hughes you any day.

But you know what? Not the point.

Should I now say to you, "Poor American Blacks? Well, they weren't gassed in Auschwitz, now WERE they?"

That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works.

John was suave and much better looking in person . SJP was pretty when she wasn’t rail thin. Being too thin makes you look gaunt and 🐎 face.

There was a lot of chatter about his running for office. Could good looks and charm make him Mayor of NYC? Or Senator?

Jackie clearly favored John over Caroline .

[quote] She was a woman of a certain class, why would she?

Because she married a US Senator who wanted to become President and then did.

[quote]Tell that to Black people, Native Americans, poor whites or the gay and lesbians who existed around that time. What the Kennedy clan dealt with was a walk in the park compared to what real poor people, people of color and sexual minorities were dealing with for generations.

And tell THAT to the starving In India or Ethiopia.

We can play the "whatabout?" game all day.

No one has suffered more than our poor Darfur Orphan. Well, except maybe St Viola.

OK, St Viola, then Darfur Orphan. The rest can fight for third place.

[quote] Caroline withdrew from that race, citing that old Kennedy fallback: Family first. Her Uncle Ted’s health was in decline, and her children didn’t want her to run — even though Hillary’s seat had once been her Uncle Robert’s and so really belonged to her.

The Divine Right of Kennedys always turned my stomach. And later it "belonged" to Jr. American's Prince. Hereditary feudalism is progressive.

I've always been a skeptic the crash happened because Jr got disoriented in the fog. I grant that it "could" happen, however that aircraft was equipped with reliable altimeter and artificial horizon indicators. Both instruments would clearly tell even a fogbound novice the basic information if he is climbing or diving. Navigation should have been his primary immediate risk, followed by visibility issues during the landing.

With the later information they were fighting before takeoff added to the stress over the weather I've wondered if there was some sort of blowup between the parties that distracted him just long enough to totally lose control of the plane.

R316 Bostonian? Most of Caroline’s childhood was in NYC. She grew up here. She’s a NYer. She didn’t move here in adulthood and claim to be something she wasn’t. She is. John John was a NYer.

R330, interesting.

John dated and did whatever he wanted, minus acting, and he only wanted that while young. He could have went into it later but didn’t. She knew it was a fad with him. She knew he wouldn’t take it seriously. She wanted something where if anything happened he could fall back on in the future. There is no guarantees with acting.

And the person claiming that their relationship was unnatural doesn’t know shit about a lot of boys with their mothers, especially from affluent backgrounds.

I also notice most gay men don’t get it either.

I still never understood why Jackie who claims to value her privacy would move to New York City. She was essentially like princess Diana,they followed her everywhere.

R326 isn’t that most mothers with their boys? Especially if the boy is like John, handsome, charming and charismatic. Most mothers get possessive of their Golden boys.

Believe it or not, r334, you could really get lost in NYC. At least back then—probably not today.

R334 NYC in the 60s-90s was easy to operate, maneuver in and hide for the wealthy. It isn’t like now where there are too many people to the point public transportation can barely handle the amount. Back then you could walk around sometimes and not see a person for a few blocks at certain times in many areas. Now that’s impossible anywhere in the city.

R284 Bitter party of 1.

R333 Really.? Gay boys wrote the book on Mummy love.

Moms with their gay boys is a very different relationship than moms with their straight, handsome all American son. The latter is the ideal while we are seen as “different” or in many cases worse.

I know gay guys who’ve been called a disgrace or the shame of the family by their parents.

He was the pilot. All responsibility is on him. If his wife had 10 pedicures - it's his responsibility to say "it's too late, we're not flying". If they are fighting, it's his responsibility to say "shut the fuck up, i am piloting". He killed himself and two women. Stop with mental gymnastics of making it her fault.

Maybe it was all of their fault.

JFK Jr wanted to be an actor, hence why he gravitated towards actresses. Jackie was adamantly against it and pushed him towards the lawyer profession. But he had a passion for acting. He certainly would have had first rate connections had he gone down that path . I think there was also rumors that Jackie feared he was gay, and by becoming an actor, he would come out. Typical unenlightened attitude of the time, and it speaks to Jackie's shallowness and lack of depth. There were rumors though of JFK Jr. have bisexual dalliances back in his pre-Lawyer days, however.

Jackie also frowned on his actress relationships. She especially despised his relationship with Madonna Madonna knew of Jackie's displeasure. When Jackie had a party at her penthouse and invited Madonna to try and maintain a good public front, Madonna signed the guestbook "Mrs. Sean Penn" (she had yet to finalize her divorce from him). That ended any chance of civility between the two.

[quote] to try and maintain

Oh, dear.

R343 the bi rumors only exist on DL, dear. Like with every other handsome man in the world.

I don’t think he would have been a very good actor. He’d have been the poor man’s Ben affleck…

R346, hah, Ben Affleck is the poor man’s Ben Affleck. Junior would have gotten any work he wanted.

You can just tell he would have been very stiff and probably worn suits all the time like clooney and relied on a Charming smile. I don’t see him giving Sean penn a run for his money.

He was never going to be a real actor. And mother knew it

Carolyn was not a beauty. With the exception of Daryl Hannah , all john’s women were less attractive than him.

FAO F344:

[quote]There is, however, nothing wrong with [italic]try and[/italic], and you should feel free to use it. It's most at home in informal settings, but is not grammatically problematic.

^ FAO R344

r294 I absolutely saw him three times in the 90s and he was stunning. In NYC you see celebs in public all the time.

I was the only professional actor in the family!

In a way, it is kind of comforting that these beautiful people who we put on a pedestal are kind of basic and simple and not very compelling underneath the “aura”

R355 speak for yourself, dear.

R355 you’re mistaken. A family like the Kennedy’s or the Royals is not the same as a Demi Lovato or J Lo. Old money vs New money. Respected and elite vs fame whore celeb.

Kennedy’s airplane had a very good autopilot and Kennedy knew how to use it. The NTSB report indicated that the autopilot was not in use at the time of the crash. Although it wasn't completely autonomous (requiring some pilot interaction) it would have gotten him to the airport where the MV tower could have guided him in. Small planes now even have auto landing (like the big jets) which is like driving a Tesla in the sky. You just program it to where you want to go and sit back and chat with your passengers. Kennedy was told by a couple of people not to fly that night, including someone who had just come through the fog. He had what pilots call "Hurry Up and Get There-itis."

Kennedy clan are reckless. Almost like a death wish

[quote]JFK Jr wanted to be an actor, hence why he gravitated towards actresses. Jackie was adamantly against it and pushed him towards the lawyer profession.

Many parents of his class were told just get the law degree and then you can do what you want. So he did it. Jackie knew that he was too scattered to fly a small plane and he promised not to -- while she was alive. So many famous people love to fly. On the ground, everyone wants something. In the air, you're alone and can completely get away which makes it an attractive preoccupation. The way he handled the last half hour of that flight was cause for a negligent manslaughter charge, which the Kennedys were afraid of with the Bessettes. Just like Chappaquidick, but in the air.

[quote] John John was a NYer

When will people stop calling him that juvenile name?

I think Carolyn was absolutely a great beauty, quite unique and striking. I remember reading Princess Diana might have been heard to remark cattily about Carolyn’s looks. I bet competitive Diana was jealous of the upstart’s then very distinctive style and the fact she bagged the kind of guy Di would have loved to get.

[quote] Carolyn was not a beauty. With the exception of Daryl Hannah , all john’s women were less attractive than him.

JFK Jr was better-looking than Daryl Hannah.

He was better looking than a lot of women at that time period. Let’s be honest.

[quote]He was most comfortable being an idle rich socialite who just looked good for the paps.

This really isn't true -- this is pretty much the opposite of what he was like. I'm not even a fan of his, but just skimming any bio of him disproves this.

He was always very kind and polite to everyone, including the paps (minus one or two times) but he couldn’t stand them. He wanted to be left alone and no one would do that. He hated it.

She was not a great beauty. Another bottle blonde in the Ralph Lauren style. Attractive but nothing a thousand other women couldn't pull off.

Does anyone have any information that would suggest, you know, he could actually [italic]act?[/italic]

Talent usually helps, especially when your last name guarantees the critics are seeking to destroy on principle.

[quote] she has been separated from Schlossberg since 2015

She's no spring chicken but why would she want to be married to that old man?

Their bodies must've been barely recognizable as human, after hitting the water at hundreds of MPH and being submerged for days.

"Would you have had Jackie go to the local bingo hall?"

Nobody's saying she should have been playing bingo with the local hoi polloi. But the fact was that anything she did of a charitable nature was for things, not people. She didn't give a shit about the needs of the average American citizen. Contrast her with Eleanor Roosevelt, who worked tirelessly to improve human rights. Or Rosalynn Carter, who worked on behalf of rights for the mentally ill. No, Jackie was just a snotty, rich bitch. She cared nothing for the American people.

It's true, R371... but seems to matter to you in such a passionately odd way.

Jackie used to buy hankies from charlie's cart outside of Grand Central Station. She enjoyed a little noblesse oblige - as long as you didn't get familiar with her. The little people were supposed to pretend that they didn't know who she was. That was the deal.

JBK did nothing for anyone but herself. She was a dilettante and a patron of the arts. Such people are necessary, but their passion is always personal to them and seldom comes with a check!

JFK Jr. did not want that kind of life. Not really. I think Carolyn Bessette is the closest woman he could find to his mother and the one he thought might possibly meet with Jackie's approval. And Bessette was a strikingly classy looking woman. Elegant as hell. Don't call her a bottle blonde? What the fuck was Jackie but a bottled, insect eyed, shabby chic everything? Shallow life. Ambitious. Greedy. Snob.

Darryl Hannah is monumentally stupid and really not very attractive in life. Leggy and Blonde, that's it. SJP was the one John really loved. But Jackie said no, so Sarah moved on.

Your mom sounds like a hoot, R64!

I remember sitting in traffic coming back from the beach when I heard the news the plane had disappeared. At the time it was all so tragic. I think Bill Clinton genuinely wanted to find him & was completely torn up (Hilary probably just rolled her eyes at what an idiot he was). But know what we know about him now - particularly his relationship with his wife - it seems like he wasn't a person a destined to grow old. If he hadn't crashed that plane, he would've done something else - car accident, drowning in a boat accident, etc..

Aside from being reckless, the Kennedys seem to lack some basic common sense - like the whole episode of couple of years ago when Kathleen Kennedy's daughter & grandson drowned in some completely preventable accident on the Bay. Maybe it's a rich people thing - fuck it, I'll just do what I want.

I've been a guest of rich people. They scoff at things like wearing a life jacket on a boat. Some kind of spirit of derring-do. I wear the thing anyway and take the jeers.

Carolyn was absolutely gorgeous. She embodied jolie laide. They were a gorgeous young couple at the end of what is now a bygone era New York. They remain fascinating.

I'm tired of this idea that the Kennedys were America's royalty. It's complete bullshit and was just PR. They were just a rich white trash family with a history of crime who managed to get involved in politics. Not the first nor the last. They were a product of the television era and used the new medium to their advantage. Great marketing. Yeah, the Kennedys suffered tragedies but so have many people. Leaders throughout history have been assassinated. And their legacy has declined with each subsequent decade as more people have become aware of their corruption. America has no royalty because we're a democratic republic built on the idea of equality and anti-elitism. Anyway, JFK Jr was a hot piece of ass and he died hot but he was a sheltered rich kid with average intelligence and mediocre in everything besides looking good.

The Kennedys were more Monegasque when you think about it.

I totally agree R376. Carolyn was aristocratic and chic and gorgeous and young and bohemian all at once. Fantastic looking woman, and a beautiful couple.

[quote] SJP was the one John really loved. But Jackie said no, so Sarah moved on.

SJP must have been heavily paid off!

R379 yes. You get it.

R377 Do you read books? Do you enjoy art? Beauty?

R371 part of Jackie's problem was that her family had vastly overestimated their allegedly aristo roots. The Bouviers were 2 generations well-off but not fabulously wealthy. Bouvier means a shepherd dog in French so you can guess how aristocratic their French origins were. Her mother was the daughter of a very rich man who claimed they were descended from the Lees of Virginia. Bullshit. He was the son of an Irish immigrant. They were parvenus trying to pass themselves off as high society so no way was Jackie going to fraternize with the working class.

R370-aspie

[quote] I don’t think DLers would be sighing at how beautiful 60 year old John Jr used to be because I’m certain with his genetics and athleticism etc. he would have aged very well.

Nah. He had the bad gene mix of Irish and European with the Irish genes dominant. Like my family. Except I have the dominant European genes so I look pretty good at my age while my poor younger brother - the tall, handsome hunk who very much resembled JFK Jr has aged terribly. Irish don't age well at all.

r373 is the mentally ill "ancient white fags" poster who is a pox on this site.

I always wondered how Jackie got that "job" as a book editor. I always figured they gave her a nice office, paid her a nice salary, and the tradeoff was her name on the masthead.

[R377] Do you read books? Do you enjoy art? Beauty?

OK, now I really want to know where this goes.

Let's just say for the sake of argument 377 posted "yes"--what is your point?

[quote] I always wondered how Jackie got that "job" as a book editor.

She won a competition for it on "American Gladiators," Rose.

R385 is JEALOUS

It's so weird to me that he seems to be universally idolzied just because of how he looked.

I am 43 and I don't really know much about him other than his parentage, that people used to make fun of him while he was alive for having failed the bar exam several times, and that he started George magazine at great cost and it failed almost immediately.

I don't have an informed opinion about him but he certainly seemed to me to be a sort of spoiled heir who had everything handed to him like a Trump offspring. (But obviously a better personality and attractive instead of looking like an inbred half-human monster.)

Almost everyone who worked with her in publishing had nice things to say about her as an editor.

He was so famous in his time but has really faded from the public consciousness.

R391 jealous borderline bitch queen

For all of her public liberal leanings and patron of the arts heirs, Jackie seems to have been very strict, almost tyrannical with her kids. Didn't she tell Caroline that she needed to go on a diet as a teenager because she was fat? Reading Carly Simon's book doesn't leave one with the best impression of that whole Martha's Vineyard scene anyway. A bunch of people who "socialized" by trying to one up each other with the books they read or the trips they took.

Over half the posts on this thread are from ONE "john-john" idolator. He talked to himself all day yesterday - answering his own posts. He uses several devices, but hasn't the intelligence to hide his sick mind or obsessive patterns. He then pvotes his own posts immediately after, to avoid the F&Fs. Most people know who this troubled soul is. R394/R390/R386 is famous for attacking when he doesn't get to continue his fantasy. It's certifiably NUTS.

r396 is mentally ill and needs to be banned from DL permanently. He's the ancient white fags shitstain and is as bad as that Ansher guy.

He was the biggest, most iconic person in the US when he was alive. I was a kid when he rose to prominence (for me he was already an adult) and anyone over the age of 10 knew who he was. He was everywhere and the most eligible bachelor probably in the world.

As for his gfs, I always thought the prettiest one was some model named Julie or Jessica or something like that.

It's crazy how famous he was and how forgotten he practically is today.

[quote] He was the biggest, most iconic person in the US when he was alive.

No.

Not even close.

Your not helping your case R397. Get some HELP!!!

r401 you're beyond help, you're nothing but a shit-stirring troll who shits all over this site.

The ancient white fags troll uses multiple sock puppet accounts, but his language is always the same. May Jesus smite him.

R377 I don't disagree, but it's hilarious that for all the talk of how we ARE A DEMOCRACY, Americans en masse LOVE to prop off certain families as American dynasties.

R374 it was last year during COVID. They got swept out into the bay...trying to retrieve a ball. What a waste.

Americans love elitism. It's a joke to say we don't.

JFK Jr had once in 100 year good looks. Truly Greek God.

It’s such a shame he was cut down in his prime with such a avoidable tragedy.

But, like others have pointed out, he really has faded from the public. Carolyn, as much as she was probably a real bitch, was a classic beauty. Her pictures don’t look dated at all I think she would have gotten ridiculously more bitchy and obnoxious as she got older. There would have been no softening around the edges with her.

He was a big deal for gay Baby Boomers who watched him salute his father's funeral cortege, but I have yet to hear anyone younger go on about him in person the way the Boomers do.

He's been entirely forgotten. And though he was indeed good-looking, he would not have posters like r407 publicly wetting their panties in public over the memory of his looks if he had just born Joe Schmoe in Paint Lick, Kentucky.

R408 People who are remembered generally are appreciated for things they did and not solely for looking good. Even Marilyn and James Dean can be seen acting in movies to this day. They did something. JFK Jr was celebrated during his lifetime solely because of his appearance.

I'm younger Gen X so I only knew of him from the 80s onward, when he was a grown man who was celebrated for being so handsome. And of course back then the whole Kennedy mystique was still around, all that bullshit about "America's Royal Family" and that kind of thing. That's completely gone from American culture now.

True r410, the Kennedy name is yesterday’s news. They have no power now .

[quote]Kennedy’s death was perhaps the last great celebrity story of its era, triggering a flood of covers on magazines from Newsweek to Time to People, as well as a slew of commemorative magazines, full of tributes to a man positioned as an American prince. The August 2, 1999 cover of People said it all: “CHARMED LIFE, TRAGIC DEATH.” It was the end of an era, but not in the way that the money-minting, blockbuster popular People realized. It was a high water mark for celebrity magazines’ place in the world, and for an entire model of celebrity.

[quote] JFK Jr was celebrated during his lifetime solely because of his appearance.

No, he was celebrated because he was the only son of a martyred president. The fact that he was good-looking was important but secondary to who his father was.

Again, if he had been born in obscurity, the best he could have hoped for with just his looks and no family connections or fame was to become a soap opera actor.

Michael Kennedy, son of RFK, died while skiing & playing football (at the same time). Crashed head-first into a tree.

R414 Christ these people are stupid

R410 now we have the Trumps and the Bushes. Hooray. Fuck.

I was in college when he died, and virtually nobody of my position at the tail end of Gen-X cared much about JFK Jr. one way or the other. He was a Baby Boomer obsession. He was a creation of their collective nostalgia for a time of promise that was never as promising as they still prefer to believe. And then he was dead. And they all nearly lost it.

^ That's it R417! ^ Jack Kennedy was no great liberal martyr savior and Jackie O was a well educated, expensive whore.

I am also the younger end of gen-x and he was popular. People might not have cared like boomers, but he was all over the media like the Kardashians ( no comparison, but to get an idea). It really wasn’t about being John Kennedy’s son. He was just a really famous guy all over the media.

Jackie was a woman of her time, generation and class. She wasn't going to go to law school and become a civil right activist FFS. You have to think of her in the context of her time and place.

R420 Eunice Shriver did and Jackie hated her for her activism. In "Conversations with Schlesinger" which Caroline inexplicably (unless she secretly hated her mother) allowed to be published and which showed her mother to be a jealous, vindictive, gossiping bitch - talking to Schlesinger about MLK's affairs which Bobby Kennedy had wiretapped - she was particularly nasty to Eunice and Sargent Shriver.

I don't think of her at all. Jackie had to be paid off with jewelry and cash bribes to give an interview or campaign for her husband. She loved the prestige of it all, and the access it gave her to the world's great palaces of wealth and culture. She did stand up to The Firm when Jack was murdered and exercised all her good manners and myth building. She didn't want the shabby and complicated truth of their arrangement to emerge. Ever.

Jackie'O spent the rest of her life fucking for money and jewels. She got paid by the sexual act with Onassis, just like any other prostitute. She blackmailed the only one who grieved him when he died.

She had some nice dresses and lots of quality properties. Took up with a married man diamond merchant who tripled her fortune. FFS. Jackie Kennedy was a courtesan if you prefer R420. That's a whore who speaks French.

He might be the most perfect physical specimen of a human male, ever.

Re all the speculation about what happened on that flight: whatever happened, they were not likely arguing during the flight. This is what the interior of a Piper Saratoga looks like. Carolyn was in the cabin with her sister, John was up in the pilot seat alone. Those small planes are LOUD. Even with push to talk headsets, the quality in the 90s was such that it would only be reducing not eliminating the noise. If they were arguing beforehand, the noise and their seating positions were the perfect excuse to just ignore each other.

R315, more likely he just wasn't into her so simple made perfunctory conversation to be polite.

Who is the poster that keeps claiming he is forgotten? I am 100% convinced now its one person using more than one account to say the same thing over and over and the WW himself.

Every single year every major News outlet acknowledges him on A. His birthday and B. His death day.

Add on the times he is acknowledged when his father is, which is a lot.

He is not forgotten, he is respected still to this day and people let him RIP.

Seeing it on CNN that morning was so sad and disappointing. He knew better.

Anyone saying he was not popular is lying. Baby Boomers watched him since he was born. They watched him grow up and that makes you feel like you know him, almost. He was "Americas Prince", almost like their little boy too.

Gen X loved him just as much, as they felt like they grew up with him (they did) and he was the epitome of beauty, class, wealth etc. He was their peer, almost. The media did not only follow him in adulthood, he has been followed his entire life and adored, hence why not once did anyone harm him while he was out like many famous people have dealt with. People would probably protect him.

I am a Millenial, we know who he was too. I was a kid when he died, and I remember hearing about it all over the place, including my Gen X mom and her friends and my Grandmother, who adored him. You would think he was her Grandson. She loved him.

R361 He was never called John John by anybody but the press. One reporter heard JFK calling out to his son, "John! John! " and he mistakenly assumed that what they were calling him, and reported it as such in a magazine article.

R428 And that unfortunate name stuck for a long time.

I think people go too hard on Jackie. When she said "If they're killing Kennedys my kids are prime targets" she was right. She had little money and a big responsibility. Her children had been turned into American royalty because of the whole "Camelot" myth. JFK was sleeping with everyone, and everyone knew it. Jackie was recovering from losing baby Patrick in 1963 and Onassis offered her his yacht and a chance to recuperate in private luxury. He was a toad and Maria Callas, a Greek Jackie Kennedy, was his mistress. After Bobby's death, she realized Onassis with his airline and his 70-man security force would be perfect for the protection of Jackie and her children, her greatest concern. She did what she had to do.

R423 "fuck that, call a town car" -- Anyone with sense

You're not a millenial R427. You're the OP. You keep talking about your mom and granny to distract from the fact that it is YOU who lusts after JFK and you're at least 70 years old! Give it a rest gramps. You've been having a conversation with yourself for 2 days on this thread. Over 240 of the posts are yours. What a sick fuck you are.

Don't chastise better minds with clear intentions. Or those of us who truly are under 40!! (barely:)

It's so cute that your mom used to see Jon Jon rollerblading all the time! What a sad, transparent hack you are. Fucking LOON.

Doesn't Jessica Lange deserve a bit of your attention soon? Or that dog face junkie Gia Garargeme?

r432 are you ok? You seem unhinged at this point. I am in my 30s, my mother her 50s and both Grandmothers their 80s.

Laughing at you so hard R433. Your own posts tell us otherwise. You're a liar, old man.

[quote] Debbie Gibson’s new single “One Step Closer” It’s fire! Wow. So good. Hope she has a massive comeback. She’s killing it. The 80s pop Princess is slowly coming back!

Oh who the fuck cares R434. Give it a rest. You DL "investigators" bore the shit out of me

My mother had all the magazines that came out when he died. Life, Time, People, the NYTimes, Daily News etc. all of them. I think she threw them out when she moved. I wish she didn't.

r436 what's funny is my OP says I was 12 at the time. I am confused by what their issue is.

r422(ancient white fags troll) is at it again.

Well . . . I think we can all give John John a rest for another year.

r427 no one is saying he was not popular. He was, and he was extremely famous in his time. But his legacy has faded.

R421 To be fair you have to put JBK's comments about King being a "tricky fella" in context. Bobby had authorized tapping of King's phones by FBI. Freaky Hoover wanted nothing more than to sabotage Kings relationship with the Kennedys and the civil rights movement. So the evil fuck gave Bobby Kennedy the King tapes. On one tgape MLK can be heard laughing while watching JFK's funeral. He cracked a joke that he hoped the didn't drop JFK's coffin going up the Capitol stairs and have to pick up his body. Bobby told this to Jackie. Explains a lot. BTW Jackie did walk behind MLK's coffin just as she did JFK's. She later met with Mrs King.

The look on Coretta Scott King's face tells us all we need to know of what she thought of Jackie's "sympathy."

All of these people will always have a place in American history and history period.

[quote]I always wondered how Jackie got that "job" as a book editor. I always figured they gave her a nice office, paid her a nice salary, and the tradeoff was her name on the masthead.

Wow, you're practically Jane Marple and Columbo both rolled into one!

JFK Jr's fans are getting older and he's not getting new ones like Marilyn Monroe, James Dean, etc etc.

^ My 19 yo nephew thought Oswald killed JFK Jr by shooting down his plane.

He was hot. He was rich. He died. Nothing for new fans to admire.

R443 Well at least she didn't kick her in the cunt like she did to me.

What you dont realize is he was not the same kind of celeb as Marilyn or James Dean. You keep comparing someone like JFK Jr, a legacy, to two actors who died young. They are not the same

What's to be a fan of? He had no talent or achievements in life. JFK Jr. was the spoiled reckless son of a president who killed his wife and her sister out of his own stupid sense of entitlement and infallibility. (even as he had a broken ankle from his most recent daredevil stunt) Jon Jon was a dumb dumb who failed the bar TWICE and had a fast failed magazine. He was vain and stupid enough to put his dick in Madonna but had to wait until his mommy died before Dr. Freud would let him marry her replacement.

He had a nice classic body. Handsome in a greasy kind of way. The End. Salute the casket like mommy told you Jon Jon.🍼

R450 yeah, he had famous and influential parents. Congrats. What did HE do in his life, besides be hot, for anyone who wasn't there at the time to give a fuck about?

r452 lived under a rock

His magazine didn't fail right away and ran a couple of years after he died

R450 = exhibit A of America's continued obsession with royalty.

The magazine never made a cent. That's a failure.

R453...or...I was 10. Why would that have made a serious impact on me? I still remember coming home from school and seeing the Columbine news on the TV. Back when school shootings were NEWS and not a daily headline.

R456 Typing fat from his mum's basement in Mound LA.

R432 Chistopher Bitchens spent his short life trying to be me. Si triste.

I have argued on this thread that he was iconic while he was alive and I stand by that. But I do agree that the younger generation doesn’t really think twice about him, if they know him at all. It’s one of those things where you had to be there. Time just moves at lightening speed. Even someone like Princess Diana wouldn’t be as remembered if it wasn’t for her two sons carrying on. I think the millennial generation just doesn’t care about the past. Even someone like Elvis must be dying out a bit, although his music will always live in.

R458 - The Benjamin Button Millennial.🤣🤣🤣

Why is there a troll all over this thread?

R460 I agree with you that he was certainly iconic in his time, but he didn't leave anything behind for younger generations to care about. What's his legacy?

I still remember this article from 22 years ago

"I think people go too hard on Jackie."

Are you kidding? NOBODY has been "too hard on Jackie." Quite the opposite. She's been admired like crazy and has praise heaped on her for being such a "good mother." Rarely do you hear anything negative about her. It's galling because she was nothing more than a very rich woman who spent money lavishly and lived a life of wealth and privilege. That's ALL she was.

[quote]I agree with you that he was certainly iconic in his time, but he didn't leave anything behind for younger generations to care about. What's his legacy?

As they said in the "Opinion: American Voices" section of The Onion, the week after he died: "Just think of all the beautiful ties he had yet to wear!"

R450 Dean's "cultural legacy" only exists if you are between 70 and death. He is as relevant today a Valentino. Marilyn will always have a following among straight dudes who fancy drag queens.

Mrs King did complain about that brief meeting with JBKO. Mrs King: ".....and she said to me 'you speak so well."

Why QAnon is obsessed with JFK Jr.

we need a Qanon genocide

They should all get into planes in the dark of night with inexperienced pilots R470.

Even if John John was alive, he would not be a Trumper. He was incredibly liberal, especially for the 80s and 90s.

Ask not about a troll R462. Look in the mirror. It trolls for thee.

R472 no one expects these fuckwads to make any sense

I just counted: OP has over [bold]EIGHTY[bold] posts on this thread.

Including my very favorite:

[quote] I wish I owned all the GEORGE issues

published 2 days ago

Never before seen photos of him from his "inner circle"

Qanon needs to be killed

[quote] "No one will ever live a life like John F. Kennedy Jr," says Gillon, a historian, author of America's Reluctant Prince and a friend of John's since John's time at Brown University.

"There's probably no one who's ever walked the earth that was the focus of media attention their entire life," says Gillon of John, seen here in 1978 at Andover.

Um...

r478 their life is not nearly as charmed

Vanity Fair breaking down the marriage of JFK Jr and CBK

JFK and Diana both died at a crossroads in their lives. The interest today, IMO, is the What If they would've done with their lives

OP has at least two other accounts on this thread. Over 240 posts in total. Scan his discussion with himself yesterday when the site was in lockdown. He would post and then answer it from another account less than a minute later! Over and over, for hours. The one post would piggyback or compliment the other! Bitch is famous for that on this site. He kept the Jussie Smollett threads going for weeks that way. Stupid shit. But a dangerous poster. Misogynistic and RACIST.

Sometimes within minutes of him posting something mundane, innocuous or insane - there will appear 5 or 6 W&W votes for that post in less than 5 minutes!?! Dude either works at McDonalds or has a lot of access to the computers in the bin. Loon. Always upvotes his own posts from his other devices to avoid being greyed out. Accuses all who find him out of being anti gay Trumpsters!! Like that's a thing on Datalounge...

Watch out for it R475, because he will now stalk all of your posts and try to defame you. Block it of course, but it's a crazy bitch with access. Comes back like a boomerang. Datalounge should get rid of this mentally ill monster once and for all. Stop playing. Have pity on its soul. Only padlocks and psychotropics can help it now.

I remember years ago it was said that part of why their marriage was falling apart was be cause of all the. cameras and CBK was having a hard time with the sudden fame and paps. She was having upset that he could not get the media and people to leave them alone but he felt like she knew what she was marrying into and that the cameras were on him since the day he was born, there was no getting rid of them.

She also grew more insecure and was constantly accusing him of cheating etc.

They were going to get divorced, I am sure of it.

[quote] I have argued on this thread that he was iconic while he was alive and I stand by that. But I do agree that the younger generation doesn’t really think twice about him, if they know him at all. It’s one of those things where you had to be there. Time just moves at lightening speed. Even someone like Princess Diana wouldn’t be as remembered if it wasn’t for her two sons carrying on. I think the millennial generation just doesn’t care about the past. Even someone like Elvis must be dying out a bit, although his music will always live in.

Really now? Every generation has different icons for different reasons. JFK Jr. only had his image and he was a pretty face. What has he contributed to society? Also, why should anyone really care about The Royal Family? What have they done besides being born into their title and hogging up all the media attention. Please explain why millennials should care about these people?

But you know who millennials care about? Martin Luther King. Gandhi. Malcolm X. Einstein. Leonardo Da Vinci. Marsha Thompson. Harvey Milk. Angela Davis. Bob Dylan.

Wow r469! Those Qanon people truly are batshit insane. I wish they could all be sent to an island somewhere.

Going back to Jackie and Bobby gossiping about MLK's sex life - and the funniest bit of all - Jackie feigning shock that a married man would be unfaithful, when Hoover ran to LBJ after he became President to tattle on MLK's sex life and try to convince LBJ to continue the wiretaps, LBJ said "King isn't the first preacher to chase pussy and he won't be the last". And he told Hoover to drop the wiretaps.

R371, Now do the rest of the First Ladies. More Jackies than Eleanors, I'd wager.

If you wonder why Jackie married two men she didn't really love, all you have to do is look at her aunt and cousin, Big Edie and Little Edie.

THAT'S why. You can stop wondering now.

I think Eleanor Roosevelt, Hillary Clinton, Laura Bush and Michelle Obama probably did the most for the American people. The rest were just stereotypical housewives or grandmas. Or in the case of Melania, a mail-order whore.

R488, she loved JFK. Not sure bout Onassis though.

Harsh R482. I have noticed his conversations with himself. I was curious. He does it on a lot of threads. This troll isn't inventive enough to come up with two or three personas - so one just chirps in to support his last previous post! In simple rhetoric - just seconds later. Have some dignity old man. Sock puppet accounts aren't effective when they all look and sound the same. Take a creative writing course. Halt the Hatespeech and Harrassement. Or your every post will soon be in TROLL RED.

I do agree that she loved JFK even though he was an awful husband to her. I think JFK only loved himself. A total narcissist. RFK definitely loved Jackie.

JFK and Jackie were speed freaks, getting those Max Jacobsen Dr. Feelgood injections.

Jackie almost left Jack more than once because she knew he was cheating. The first time was before he won as President and she almost left him so he couldnt win.

r482/r491 is the ancient white fags troll talking to himself.

[quote]JFK and Jackie were speed freaks, getting those Max Jacobsen Dr. Feelgood injections.

Lots of people got those injections back then, they didn't know it was really speed, they thought they were getting vitamin shots.

Didn’t John John enjoy himself some “nose sugar”, as I call it?

R491 has your number R495. Time for you to STFU.

R494 - the rumor I heard as a kid was Joe Sr. paid her a million to not divorce JFK and this ruin his chance for running for president; but my dad is a nutty republican so I have no idea how true that was.

Jackie is an interesting person because she was a walking contradiction. She was intelligent, educated and sophisticated. She worked in journalism and publishing. But she pretty much forced herself to be this trophy wife and accepted the subservient housewife ideal. She did try to assert some influence like redesigning the White House and preserving art which did prove she wasn't just an airhead. But still she was golddigger, materialistic, greedy, neurotic and image-obsessed but I'm wondering how much of that was her internalizing these stereotypes of a rich white femininity that was thrusted upon her. I can imagine she must had severe depression and was a huge drug addict to deal with deep down knowing that no matter how intelligent and strong-willed she was, she was trapped by the fact she was a woman in a rich man's world and had to play the part.

Jackie was definitely paid to stay. But she did know he was cheating with everyone, including Marilyn.

[quote]Lots of people got those injections back then, they didn't know it was really speed, they thought they were getting vitamin shots.

Right. The leader of the free world thought he was getting vitamin shots. One thing I'll give you, the speed didn't give him crystal dick.

R489 Lady Bird Johnson was an early environmentalist.

r502 why don't you read something once in awhile. Dr. Max Jacobson sold his shots as vitamin B12 shots. Lots of celebrities and prominent people took them in that period. It took years before it was discovered those shots were speed. Jacobson lost his license and was ostracized.

JFK probably did have crystal dick some times. And his bad back and pyschosexual tendencies did the rest. He was a BAD fuck. Everyone said so. He might be obsessed with hookers and starlets and secretaries all day, every day. He seemed to like to be gratified as his choosing often more than once a day. But by all accounts he was done in about 5 minutes. Not a stud. Horny, but with no skills or even much lasting satisfaction from a good fuck. He was like a lot of OLD gay men - more into the conquest than an exchange of sexual energy or romance. I don't care, but this is well known. He wasn't the least bit attractive except for his power. Jackie wasn't interested in sex - just who he was fucking. Sometimes in the next room. The Lawford, Sinatra and Giancana clan introduced Kennedy to the zipless fuck. Where hookers blow you under the poker table or in the steam room. He was gross in my eyes. And although Jackie was refined - she revealed her true self eventually. She was a pussy for hire too.

A homemade video of our little John John. I found myself crying while watching, thinking of what could have been had he lived. We truly lost our American Prince.

Just an ordinary cute kid, John was. No hint that he would be so good looking as an adult. Both John and Caroline had the too wide set eyes of their mother. Jackie definitely had Fetal Alcohol FACE. She smoked through her pregnancies and probably drank too. HER mother definitely did. Jackie was shrewd but maybe a little slow? John did grow up to be handsome. But there was nothing special about him as a kid than any other cute child.

Jackie could put both earrings on at once without looking in a mirror. That bitch had far apart eyes. FAS.

He was an adorable boy.

You can not tell if a 2 year old will be a gorgeous man one day r507. You have to wait until they're teens.

r505 is reminiscent of Edith Wharton, so elegantly chronicling the lives of the social set.

r505/r507 is also the ancient white fags troll, aka King from LSA. We get it. You hate the Kennedys because they were part of a world you're insanely jealous of and your mental illness would never allow you to join. Run along now and let the adults talk.

[quote] We truly lost our American Prince

Jesus Christ. America is a democratic republic that is one of the most diverse nations on Earth. Not some fairy tale Disney monarchy bullshit. We lost the son of a former President. It was sad. But the trashy, drug addicted and STD-ridden Kennedys with their obnoxious accents were not any type of royalty. Obama had more class than any of them though I'm not a fan of drone bombing.

I read the Vanity Fair excerpt and a lot of it didn’t make sense. Why would he be separated and still want to have children with her? He was home sick with the flu, but then went into the office the next day and wanted to know why the co-worker had Carolyn out so late? He had an issue with her drug use, but put up with her giving keys to fashionista druggie friends? That book doesn’t sound believable.

On a similar note it’s interesting that Darryl Hannah, Christina Haag, Carole Radziwell and Carolyn’s sister Lisa never had children. I don’t think Carolyn would’ve had them either. It would’ve been a Brad Pitt/Jennifer Aniston scenario.

Yes, he wanted children but I do not think she did.

Also, I know he was truly shaken by Princess Diana's death. It scared him.

He was the American Prince, like it or not.

That home video fascinates me. Lovely.

To be a wealthy elite family in 1963. Must have been wonderful.

Like Camelot?

[quote] He was the American Prince, like it or not.

Nope. He was a celebrity and son of a politician who died. America will never be a monarchy. We are democracy and fought for our independence. Like it or not.

We don't have an official monarchy, but it's an innate human characteristic to have monarchy-type figures in their culture.

Sure John John did coke in his college days. There was a account of him snorting lines of a plate with his dads picture on the bottom. Frat boy humor. Heard his drug of choice was cannabis. He smoked a lot of pot. Also cigs, like his mom.

Jackie was a lifelong heavy smoker who tried to hide it in public, but sometimes a photographer caught her.

[quote]Also, why should anyone really care about The Royal Family? What have they done besides being born into their title and hogging up all the media attention. Please explain why millennials should care about these people?

[quote]But you know who millennials care about? Martin Luther King. Gandhi. Malcolm X. Einstein. Leonardo Da Vinci. Marsha Thompson. Harvey Milk. Angela Davis. Bob Dylan.

Oh, you're [italic]beautiful,[/italic] Mary.

But interestingly, you somehow forgot to include: the Kardashian sisters, Kanye West, Zac Efron, Demi Lovato, Dwayne Johnson, Ryan Reynolds, Taylor Swift, Ariana Grande, Nicki Minaj...

...somehow I think [italic]those[/italic] names are more important to them than Leonardo da Vinci's.

Thank you R509! The truth must be illuminated in just this way. Edith Wharton knew that too. Nice of y'all to notice our similarities. I am a different sort of artist. A king of a man, with great sensitivity and monumental depth to my work. It is in more active voice. Thank you for all your the compliments. Feel free to DM me.

[quote]A homemade video of our little John John. I found myself crying while watching, thinking of what could have been had he lived. We truly lost our American Prince.

Mary.

R476 love it. Words from the “inner circle” of jfk jr and all we get are vague cliches like: But, says Gillon, "John did not just lead a charmed life. He led a complicated life."

And: He was "alive to the fullest."

r522 what is your favorite Edith Wharton novel and why?

R506 MARY!!!!!!!

[quote]The truth must be illuminated in just this way.

There is no truth in your addled mind.

He clearly had a death wish. If not the plane crash, it would've been something else.

"Gravity and physics don't apply to Kennedys"

He didn't even leave a good looking corpse. He was a murderer as far as most people are concerned. His good looks and rollerblading are as past tense as OP's hole.

[quote]She was a woman of a certain class

Yet she couldn't find a classier dude with money than Onassis. I don't even think the Kennedys were classy. Joe Kennedy made his money running saloons.

R513 clearly not enough, as he crashed his plane right after getting out of a broken ankle cast

I think the story that most struck me about how cruel JFK could be to Jackie was he was vacationing on a yacht in the Mediterranean with Teddy and Senator Smathers and a shitload of hookers. Jackie was very pregnant, back in DC. She was rushed to hospital and delivered a stillborn daughter. When JFK was informed of this, he told Smathers he wouldn't go home, he'd continue with his vacation. Smathers told him if he didn't go back immediately, JFK could forget about his political career. So JFK flew home.

Didn't he know she was a coke head when he proposed to her?

[quote]Carole Radziwell didn't have children

She's still a very young woman, R512, so there is still time.

Carole is sort of ridiculous, but not terrible or mean (or completely crazy) like some of the HW, but I think John would've been appalled at the way she dined off his dead cousin's name for years.

r533 He was a coke head too.

Clear that few people on this thread were one or two degrees from him.

So much bullshit.

[quote]I think there was also rumours that Jackie feared he was gay

Of course there were, hon.

[quote]Jackie knew that he was too scattered to fly a small plane and he promised not to -- while she was alive.

Nah, R360, she just didn't want him getting into to something which could plummet from the sky and kill him.

R530, Bootlegging, not actual saloons.

But hey---those old rich guys were all corrupt.

You’re right r538. There is really no rich guy who made their money in a “classy” way.

Jackie was always grateful to her secretary for letting her know that the names in her Rolodex were in alphabetical order. It saved her hours a day.

[quote][R502] why don't you read something once in awhile. Dr. Max Jacobson sold his shots as vitamin B12 shots. Lots of celebrities and prominent people took them in that period. It took years before it was discovered those shots were speed. Jacobson lost his license and was ostracized.

Oh come off it. I've read Jacobsen's biography and those of his "patients." Do you REALLY think they didn't know what was in those shots? Do you believe that they didn't know the difference between a (cough) B12 shot and the jolt of hyperawareness that speed gives you? Half of Hollywood was on speed pills. Black Beauties, etc. They may have willfully blinded themselves to the fact but they knew that B12 doesn't make you have a sudden burst of energy and repression of hunger that lasts for days at a time. Sure Jacobsen put stuff in those shots, gross stuff if YOU've read any of the books. But they knew. The fact he was a "doctor" made it seem legal.

r541 people weren't as sophisticated about those things back then. And doctors were not questioned.

That loony QAnon conspiracy was the first time I’d heard his name mentioned in decades. His memory seems to have vanished completely from pop culture. It’s kind of sad.

r505, your definition of "zipless fuck" is just wrong.

R543 is back on another account to say the same exact thing again.

What exactly is he supposed to remain in popular culture for? Someone made the point that part of why Diana is still in our public consciousness is because of William and Harry. Otherwise, I think it would be the same for her. He didn't accomplish anything that would keep him in the public consciousness.

for those like me who didn't know: zipless fuck A phrase coined by Erica Jong in the book "Fear of Flying". As described by her - It is a sexual encounter between strangers that has the swift compression of a dream and is seemingly free of all remorse and guilt. It is absolutely pure, there is no power game and it is free of ulterior motives. It has also been described as the perfect one night stand. The zipless fuck is the purest thing there is, rarer than the unicorn and I have never had one. - "Fear of Flying"

[quote][R541] people weren't as sophisticated about those things back then. And doctors were not questioned.

Jacobsen was questioned by JFK's doctors and they knew, but were overruled by JFK himself. Max was a sad excuse for a doctor and several of his patients experienced psychotic aftereffects (Bob Cummings went nuts and lost his career). JFK, after receiving a shot in the office went bonkers, ripping off his clothes and running down the hall before his SS agents caught him. JFK didn't CARE. He suffered from a number of debilitating symptoms related to his medical problems, one of which was a lack of energy and an extremely bad back. The magic elixir Jacobsen provided helped EVERYthing. That's because . . . "Jacobson was known for his "miracle tissue regenerator" shots, which consisted of amphetamines, animal hormones, bone marrow, enzymes, human placenta, painkillers, steroids, and multivitamins." YUCK. But, hey, whatever works.

The Kennedy's might have been bootleggers at one time, but as soon as the father was made Senator to United Britain, they gained upper-class status.

CBK was not a beautiful woman. She was a striking looking woman but not beautiful. Her blonde hair was bleached to the hilt, some photos it was a gorgeously pale, butter color. But she also had periods when the color was brassy, Pam Anderson fake Barbie blonde. CBK’s natural hair color was medium brown and texture naturally wavy. But her straightened hair matched more with her cool minimalist fashion vibes when she dated then married JFK Jr.

[quote] when she dated then married JFK Jr.

What? He had a first marriage we've never heard about?

CBK was a fashion muse and icon long before she met JFK Jr. She worked at a Calvin Klein store and was plucked from there. She rose to social prominence because of her style. Her best friends were all in that world. She has never been interviewed in her life and attended none of juniors press conferences for George Magazine. But she did entertain their friends privately. She was shy, but others found her to be warm and friendly and self deprecating and gorgeous. She didn't seek fame - she loved the world of fashion. Her best friends were Narciso Rodriguez and Kelly Klein. Everyone sought out her advice, because her taste was flawless. All before she met junior.

R552 Dont forget about me! She loved me and got me in with CK too

After seeing pictures of them together I don’t know what he saw in her as she was extremely fug.

I also think she had set her sights on him from the beginning and manipulated him all the way to the alter. However, even though JFK jr had told friends he was going to divorce her (due to her behaviour and not wanting children), I think she would have manipulated him again by becoming pregnant.

Also, someone who worked for an internet provider he was signed up with at the time, said he had a huge unpaid gay porn bill when he died.

Either way once she became pregnant he would have been stuck with her.

It's funny to think of JFK Jr. sitting in front of his computer and beating off to porn just like the rest of us slobs.

Was internet porn even a big thing yet in the 90s?

Yes it was r556. Believe me.

R554 is crazy.

I'm surprised Jr didn't become a big druggie himself. JFK's brain is missing because the family was afraid it could have been revealed what combination of pills he was on all the time because of the multitude of his illnesses.

I never saw Carolyn Bessette as an "exceptional beauty" either, although I guess she could rightly be called "striking." Tall, thin, with that mane of fake blonde hair....I guess she was quite a sight. But look at her face! That was NOT a beautiful, or even pretty, face. And her great "style?" WHAT style? At every public appearance her "style" was a black dress, severely pulled back hair (which emphasized her gaunt face and large nose) and red lipstick. Shortly before her fatal plane crash she had bought a black dress to wear to Rory Kennedy's wedding. a $1630 black silk crepe evening dress. That was her "style"; a black dress.

How much experience did he have flying before the crash?

She was amazingly stylish. What's more stylish than a deceptively simple impeccable black dress? She also favored crisp white shirts and long slender skirts. Jeans and boots and toques. She was a great looking woman. Wearing primarily black and white to formal events is classically French. Her impeccable lines were like a greyhound. Sleek.

Junior and Carolyn lived in Tribeca - like the trendy young couple they were. Before it was the most expensive hood in NYC. They were both probably shallow people, well suited to each other. Casually elegant, young and hip.

Modern Family

Yes, she was very stylish. That clean crisp minimalist look was practically revolutionary after the fashion of the early 90s, which vacillated between loud bold brassy remnants of the 80s and the dirty grunge aesthetic. And she was definitely more striking than beautiful, although she was much prettier with her natural coloring and thicker brows.

Still a style icon.

Carolyn was much prettier in person . Her eyes were kind . She was very stylish and classy . She’s somewhat guarded though

lovely

Doesn't get much better. This is why people mourned. They were an ideal.

I always enjoy these Kennedy threads. There always filled with fun bitchy gossip and this out of control wealthy powerful elite American family.

I really read these threads to hear more about Jackie and Lee and the exciting lives they lead.

I think it's about time for another Jackie and Lee thread. Someone should create on, I can't.

R564 If CBK had lived.

The U.S. needs a charismatic Kennedy in politics now. I like Biden, and I think he's doing a good job. However, we need a Kennedy to appeal to the masses and fight the Repigs and this motherfucking Trump who won't go away. We need a Democratic John-John Kennedy now more than ever.

For R568

Link:

R572 Thx!

OK, my secondhand Lee Radziwill story. I knew a (straight) French physical therapist at the Nestle Hospital in Lausanne - Roger. One day I see him in a cafe. He comes over to me, so excited he's jumping out of his skin. He tells me he has Lee Radziwill as a patient. She was in the hospital for a surgical procedure - probably an abortion as Switzerland was among the few countries where abortions were easily accessible back in the early 70s.

He tells me she wants to make love to him. Me...whut? Roger: she said to me "Roger, si je n'ai pas un rhume, je te baise". I had to break it to him that Americans are taught in French class 'baiser' means to kiss whereas it means 'to fuck' for the average Frenchman. I also learned Lee wasn't fluent in French and probably Jackie wasn't either.

R546, For the same reason other tragic but "unaccomplished" offspring are remembered, some even memorialized in films.

You do know what "really famous and historic family" means, right?

Sorry, r551. For your jape to work, the spelling would have to have been "then-married," with the hyphen.

R757 Anastasia died in the overthrow of her country and was rumored to have survived for over decades. The Princes in the Tower died in a seizure of power during a 40 year struggle and no one really knows exactly what happened. The Lindbergh baby was a shocking kidnapping (and when was the last time anyone really talked about the Lindbergh baby?

JFK Jr got himself killed in a stupid accident. No drama or mystery involved.

[quote]The Lindbergh baby was a shocking kidnapping (and when was the last time anyone really talked about the Lindbergh baby?

Zzzzzzzzzzzzz......

r576 should've been on that fucking plane.

R575 And what did Anastasia and Lindbergh baby accomplish in their short tragic lives?

I always had an unverifiable theory that Carolyn started one of her coke fueled neurotic tirades in the cramped cockpit of that plane and that's all it took for ADD John-John to fly it into the sea.

Nah, I remember the interviews from the airport back then. They said no one else took off, even experienced pilots, because the conditions were so bad. I get they were in a time crunch, but he really made a colossal error in judgement. He really did have a death wish.

He should've told Carolyn to STFU and hired a car to drive them to the Vineyard.

R583 more like she should've told him.

Imagine if she got a driver and woke up in the am and he never showed

He had a gorgeous body...one of the best, imo. It was a shock when he died. It's one of those deaths that kind of shook me.. remember the place and time when I first heard about it... like Princess Diana, John Lennon.

R582 Wish he had keep it to himself.

R522/R563 Types like a VF wanna be.

R587 types like some ancient white RACIST fag. Not to be specific. He's someone who spent 40 years of life reading Vanity Fair at the gloryholes. Until his knees gave out and he lost control of his neck. Sad.

^^ugh. Such a gross little piggie.

R588 writes better than most VF contributors tbh. His posts are pretty fucking colourful and very unique. I'm a fan. Don't let the old guard grind you down man. They are dying off this site. Trust.

r588/r590 = same poster talking to himself, which he does constantly. The language is exactly the same in all his posts.

How is language the same? They are different posters. Why do you stalk and harass the people who don't like you R591? You will be banned again from this site. We ALL know who YOU are. Get help.

r592 you have multiple sock puppet accounts but you write in exactly the same way on all of them. God, you're a tiresome freak.

We pray for you nightly. To die in your sleep R593. If you could write as well as I do - people might not feel so much disgust towards your RACIST MISOGYNISTIC ANCIENT WHITE QUEER LISPING posts.

^^oink oink you little piggie

Can we just let the old man finish out this thread now? His diaper must be full. Make another watery grave for JFK Jr.

What a ugly Old man = R593/R595. He has over 280 posts on this thread. Bitch ruins everything he comes near. What a sad piece of work. ☮️

RIP junior Kennedy. May your next life be joyful - to the enigmatic and beautiful Carolyn Bessette.❤️

junior killed Lauren Bessette too. RIP.

Better days, before jfk junior.

g o n e

Mentally ill cunt. JFC