The Movie Business Is Dead to me

During the pandemic, there has been a massive spike in on-demand video. In the first quarter of 2020, Netflix added 15.8 million new subscribers. Since then, its growth rate has slowed, but the company says it ended the year with more than 200 million customers.

Diller acknowledged the recent success of streaming services and how indispensable they became during the pandemic, but he was less complimentary of their expensive efforts to create more original content. "These streaming services have been making something that they call 'movies,' " he said. "They ain't movies. They are some weird algorithmic process that has created things that last 100 minutes or so."

For Diller, this is about seismic change and nostalgia, but it is also about semantics. The definition of "movie," he said, "is in such transition that it doesn't mean anything right now." Companies are trying to figure out what viewers want and how they want it. That has led to hits and misses.

Asked about Quibi, the now-defunct streaming platform founded by Jeffrey Katzenberg, the former chairman of Walt Disney Studios, Diller was unequivocal. "Quibi was just a bad idea," he said. "I mean, it's that simple." The company raised $1.75 billion, and it spent most of that money commissioning content — short videos designed to be watched on smartphones. In the months that followed its launch last year, Quibi failed to get any traction, and it ended its streaming service in December.

"It was a bad idea that had no testing ground other than a big-scale investment," Diller said. "Otherwise, it would have slithered around for a while. But it was such a big-scale thing that it lived and died in a millisecond." In January, Quibi sold its assets — 75 shows and documentaries — to Roku, reportedly for less than $100 million. "It has no relevance on anything," Diller said. "The idea of professional, A-quality 10-minutes-or-less stuff just made no sense."

Katzenberg was a Diller protégé — part of a group of people whom Diller mentored known as the Killer Dillers — and he is also in Idaho this week, participating in the Allen & Co. conference. Through a spokesperson, Katzenberg declined to comment.

Diller said he has "almost zero" interest in the movie business today. In recent months, he has turned his attention to producing plays on Broadway. "I find that far more creative," he said.

Serves the bastards right.

[quote]In recent months, he has turned his attention to producing plays on Broadway. "I find that far more creative," he said.

Amazing he can do that while Broadway is closed.

When will he finally die?

Wokeness didn't help either (does it help anything?). Look at the criticism 'In the Heights' received.

Oh, but plays are the future?

He's evolving BACKWARDS.

I just had a casting meeting with him and he said I got the role… while he was inside me?!

Does BD have a big one? I like to imagine he does.

He looks like he smells of cheese and menthol

He’s absolutely right about the movie business. Movies aren’t shot on film anymore, so what’s the point of watching them?

[quote] Amazing he can do that while Broadway is closed.

This may shock you, but producing any kind of theater show requires months and months of planning and rehearsal.

The movie business started dying when The Sopranos debuted. Movies suck compared to TV shows now, and there will never be a role in a movie that can hold a candle to what James Gandolfini did for seven years on that show

The only things propping up Hollywood now are shitty superhero movies, the Fast & Furious franchise, animated films and horror movies. You take those away and movie theaters would be extinct.

r11 = James Gandolfini

It’s really awful. These studios and tech companies have gutted the great 20th century art form and shrunk everything down to numbing, mindless “content.”

[quote]This may shock you, but producing any kind of theater show requires months and months of planning and rehearsal.

No shit, Sherlock. But with the shutdown, who has been rehearsing shows?

But my 10in cut cock is still alive.

They’re working on them now, R14, behind the scenes. For the eventual reopening. So that when theaters re-open, there will be shows ready to go. Unless Diller claims he’s been working on shows since March 2020 (which no one was doing), there’s no reason to doubt him.

Agree with him completely.

Now that Hollywood has a "formula" for churning out crap movies, all we'll get is the same old same old.

Nothing new. Nothing creative. Nothing ground breaking.

Just the same old SHIT.

[quote] Oh, but plays are the future?

[quote] He's evolving BACKWARDS

^^ So dumb.

[quote] "I find [Broadway] far more creative," he said.

I wish I could agree with him. Retreads, revivals, and making musicals from 20 year old movies that were meh to begin with will draw crowds but it will embody the stasis gripping popular entertainment now. There are plenty of exceptions I guess but when was the last time something came along that you were dying to see?

We’re going to London in the fall and we’ve begun looking at fringe and experimental theater for something — anything! — interesting.

Thank you, R5, for seeing that it's not the epidemic or the rise of streaming apps or changing audience taste or the horrible experience going to see a movie is, but it's wokeness that's to blame.

On what planet is Broadway more creative? It's all jukebox musicals, musical adaptations of movies and revivals. Aside from Lin Miranda, can you honestly name one young original composer that has generated huge buzz in the last twenty years?

Broadway is nothing but a tourist attraction for flyovers now. Everything's marketed towards drawing as big an audience as possible. The days of true experimental theater and thought provoking plays and musicals with niche but dedicated audiences are over.

And if anything, Broadway is going to go the safest route possible since they were decimated by COVID the last year. So expect the situation to get even more dire and dreary (if you could imagine that).

When was BARRY DILLER attached to anything remotely experimental or path breaking? He's made most of his money off fucking QVC.

He hasn't been the same since Phyllis died.

[quote]—1 degree of separation from Broadway.

Sucking off an usher in the alley?

I am hoping we are just talking cycles. At some point, I am assuming/hoping that people are getting tired of super hero blockbusters and just stay home if nothing else plays.

But maybe this is what getting old means: You think you've seen it before. I mean, the super hero movies really don't tell new stories, right? They are new for teens and twenty somethings, so they should keep going and watch them. But I am 50. I need to see a story I haven't seen before.

"Nothing new. Nothing creative. Nothing ground breaking."

Because the majority of the population is boring as fuck.

There is a famous story about Barry Diller. He took a meeting with an a-list star's agent to negotiate his salary for a movie. He met the agent at his house, in his bathrobe. At some point, his robe opened and the agent saw Barry's Diller - it was supposedly so big it intimidated the agent to accept less money for his client.

[quote]Sucking off an usher in the alley?

New York City doesn't have alleys.

R22 He's been attached to my ass.

That isn’t actually Hart Bochner, R29. Wish it were, but it’s definitely absolutely not. I don’t know how that blogger mistook that guy for Hart and why so many people didn’t realize he was wrong.

Creativity is lacking. It’s nothing but remakes and comic book movies. Snyder at least (I think) original with Army of the Dead.

*was

I believe Steven Spielberg and George Lucas sounded the alarms several years ago. Something about the film industry imploding.

And Martin Scorsese^.

Like the railroad, the telephone, the fax machine and so on.

These things are still around. But less important. We all must evolve.

I would say Netflix, Hulu, and all the other online services are really what killed Hollywood.

However, that might not be totally accurate.

I think they were just filling a void.

If Hollywood had focused on stories, and original content, they would have remained a dominant force in movies.

However, Hollywood is now "All Remakes, All Marvel, All Superhero, All the Time." They haven't done anything original or new in decades.

So it's their own goddamned fault.

R35, I would rather die than just follow the herd off a cliff. What exactly is replacing the modern classic era of filmmaking that’s so much better?

The last great decade of moviemaking was the 1970s, and no form of on-screen storytelling has risen to replace it or improve upon it.

R37, well there's this box in many living rooms people seem to like a lot.

Unfortunately, you are not the arbiter of "better" and neither am I. We have to hope something great will come from streaming.

Also, are you going to blow your brains out in the herd BEFORE going over the cliff?

Something to give thanks for.

[quote]I believe Steven Spielberg and George Lucas sounded the alarms several years ago. Something about the film industry imploding.

Ann Miller talked about it on the Merv Griffin show in 1972.

R28 Ever hear of Schubert Alley outside the Broadway theater. Ever been to NY?

R41, that Ann sure was a modern day Cassandra.

It’s over because nobody knows how to make a decent movie anymore.

R31 is completely ignorant, since he doesn’t realize that every character and every beat of ARMY OF THE DEAD was stolen from James Cameron’s ALIENS.

Even some of the dialogue in ARMY was stolen from ALIENS.

“You don’t see them killing each other!”

Diller is right — producers have to care about what they’re making and a show has to be properly hyped.

The problem is Hollywood doesn't take chances anymore and it produces fewer and fewer prestige Oscar-bait movies.

Diller can act all high almighty, but the entire entertainment industry is now run by lowest common denominator algorithms (including his precious Broadway).

Greed killed Hollywood. Supplying the demand for lowest common denominator entertainment killed the intellectual spirit. Holding on to the outdated movie theater distribution model killed Hollywood. Disparaging streaming services like Netflix killed Hollywod.

I said I think R45. Good lord.

R48, Netflix is being killed as we speak, though. Thank god.

[quote] [R48], Netflix is being killed as we speak, though. Thank god.

Here's a quote from Diller's article we're discussing:

[quote] During the pandemic, there has been a massive spike in on-demand video. In the first quarter of 2020, Netflix added 15.8 million new subscribers. Since then, its growth rate has slowed, but the company says it ended the year with more than 200 million customers.

Doesn't look like the funeral is any time soon. Netflix shines with their original TV show content (Queen's Gambit, The Queen, Bridgerton, Stranger Things, etc.). Diller discusses Hollywood movies though (the movie business is over). I don't think Netflix had any luck with their movie releases. Like that absolutely horrible Army of Dead bullshit where they gave that hack Zac Snyder free rein.

The US movie biz is dead because it ran out of ideas, creativity, innovation and the ability to entertain decades ago. "Diversity" and the demand that films and the people in them reflect reality were the final daggers in the heart of an industry in its last gasp.

I love when people claim that movies are dead because of TV. I'm sorry most TV is still shit. It's not even as good as it was 20 years ago. I'd take thirtysomething over 90% of the stuff that gets shit out in the name of content. TV is not as good as people claim. It's still TV. Some of it just looks like filmed community theatre. But content!

R53 is right.

[quote] I love when people claim that movies are dead because of TV. I'm sorry most TV is still shit.

Well, duh! For every Game of Thrones (well, given the ending maybe not the best example) there are gazillions of Keeping Up With The Kardashians, Duck Dynasty, Nazi Germany docu on the History Channel, fishing or sports broadcasting, Shopping Channels, etc.

The bad will always outnumber the good stuff. However, there's no denying that while the bad grew exponentially with the addition of new (premium) cable channels, satellite dish channel offerings, and streaming services, the good grew as well. And not just "good". There's Gay / LGBT themed entertainment available like never before in human history (old and new).

And we all should be thankful that most of what TV has to offer is shit. Can you imagine the frustration of missing out on all the entertainment when there's so little time to watch a tiny fraction of it?

There is a market for both. There are so many TV shows out there that even r53 should find one, two or three that captivate him. And about movies: Some independent studio will come up with a movie that's going to be all the rage. It will create a new wave of new movies. Then the studio will be bought by Disney, and another indepebent studio needs to emerge again.

[quote Creativity is lacking. It’s nothing but remakes and comic book movies. Snyder at least (I think) original with Army of the Dead

It’s a fucking sequel....

To a remake...

Of a ducking SEQUEL!!!!

[quote]ducking

Mmmkay.

February 18, 2019, TheVerge.com-

[quote] Steven Spielberg is worried what the success of streaming means for theatrical films

[quote] Over the weekend, in a speech at the Cinema Audio Society’s CAS Awards, director Steven Spielberg reminded listeners yet again that he’s specifically dedicated to a theater-based cinematic experience as “a firm believer that movie theaters need to be around forever.”

June 21, 2021, Deadline.com

[quote] Hell Freezes Over? Steven Spielberg’s Amblin Partners In Deal To Make Movies For Netflix

[quote]and the demand that films and the people in them reflect reality were the final daggers in the heart of an industry in its last gasp.

THIS.

The best novels have done this for years

I think the macro view of what Diller is saying is that the industry is in flux. The pandemic accelerated what was always going to be a showdown between streamers and theatrical distribution. But I don’t think this landscape is permanently settled.

Ultimately, if streamers and studios wish to abandon independent filmmaking - which the studios absorbed and folded into their operations from 1990 - then within that void, it leaves true independents the opportunity to emerge and occupy that space. For instance, film festivals could start collaborating and co-ordinating with distributors and venues to create a new chain for the theatrical exhibition of independent films.

The studios thought they had all this figured out in the 1960s and then the foreign and independent revolution happened which paved the way for arguably one of the greatest eras of American filmmaking in the 1970s. (Until George Lucas ruined it.)

William Goldman’s maxim of the industry is as true today as it ever was: “Nobody knows anything.”

I need to know more - scratch that - I need to know everything about R29’s photo.

Also, R53 scores big points for referencing thirtysomething and I would recommend they watch Shiva Baby for Polly Walker’s performance alone.

I’ve seen better story content, better writing, better characters and acting from streaming then I’ve seen on the big screen for at least a decade now. My opinion is there will be a wider spectrum for content from now on with streaming channels. Face it, the big screen is better suited for spectacle movies. You dont need to see intimate story and character content in the movie theater. So, it’s very possible that better, more mature, ‘Oscar bait’ projects can be produced than ever before. Less gatekeepers to appease. You also don’t need to spend $100 at the concession stand. The way I see it, it’s a win-win situation.

There already has been a glut of cheaper, "Oscar Bait" and indie movies. Many of them are good.

The problem is, they're either too similar to other "Oscar Bait" flicks or cheap knock-offs of Hollywood hits — just without the A-list stars or visual effects.

There needs to be less of everything and more originality.

Valuable insight for sure but it lacks the nuance of appreciating the new vectors of film. Amazon, Netflix, and the ilk are surely a dumping ground of shit content, but so has the cinematic theater throughout its history (a lot of B-movies have always been my favorites, natch).

I think these old movie people are jealous that the eyeball attention has been shifted to an algorithm that can almost be as cruel as them, in terms of what it decides you need to see. Gone are the days of any sense of curation. We're at the whim of an AI who just wants us to consume more. That we need that algorithm to manage the sheer amount of global content is another argument in itself.

Regardless, streaming companies will eventually continue to buy actual cinema real estate to increase the prestige of any potential blockbuster they may have produced.

There is a pleasure in the cinema that even the best home theater cannot replace.

[quote] There is a pleasure in the cinema that even the best home theater cannot replace.

But does said pleasure outweigh the disadvantage of sharing the space with rude and inconsiderate audience members?

obsolete closeted gay man has an opinion?

Aside from all the streaming services people pay for, the quality of even relatively inexpensive TVs & sound systems is such that you don't really need to go to a theatre for the full visual experience. That and other factors like people seem to have no boundaries when it comes to using & talking on their phones. Why put up with that shit when you can just sit on your couch?

I don't think it's dead - just changing; I could see less big movie theatres & but more of the small, boutique type MT with big comfortable chairs, serving food & drinks and expensive enough to keep out the rubbish-types (and people with kids)

r69 He is bisexual. Gay leaning perhaps, but bisexual.

[quote]Wokeness didn't help either (does it help anything?).

Just imagine all the amazing movies we could have had now that the cgi technology is almost flawless, if they'd only kept the sjw, diversity and representation crap out of the film industry. Instead we get propaganda films in the guise of entertainment.

[quote] Instead we get propaganda films in the guise of entertainment.

Bitch, please. Hollywood's been propaganda from the start. Calling it "woke" doesn't make it a disturbingly new development.

He's right.

[quote]Hollywood's been propaganda from the start.

But the [italic]good[/italic] kind of propaganda. Not the shite we're served now that no one can stomach.

No, it's not as it's too big to fail. Besides sentimentality trumps the economic rationale here. Maybe if the industry allows more pr0n in theaters....

r75. Could your distinction between good vs. bad propaganda be related to your age? Is this a "get off my lawn!" situation in your case?

What's the problem? Marvel/Avengers movies make billions.....so make more! (and more, and more, keep grinding them out)

Hollywood

[quote]r77 Could your distinction between good vs. bad propaganda be related to your age?

It's related to woke vs. not woke.

[quote] In recent months, he has turned his attention to producing plays on Broadway. "I find that far more creative," he said.

If you substitute “lucrative” for “creative”, Diller’s argument becomes perfectly clear, - as well as totally misguided.

Entertainment, whether filmed or live, is NOT going away. Going to theaters on a wide scale however, is not long for this world - not with 4K/8k and 86” TVs soon to be the norm. And it’s inevitable, whether recorded or live,

[quote] Hollywood's been propaganda from the start.

[quote] But the good kind of propaganda. Not the shite we're served now that no one can stomach.

[quote] [R77] Could your distinction between good vs. bad propaganda be related to your age?

[quote] It's related to woke vs. not woke.

"Get off my lawn!" then. Thanks for clearing that up.

[quote] as well as totally self-serving and misguided.

Fixed

r81 You're welcome. (Plus, don't forget who didn't enjoy In the Heights and wants to cancel LMM.)

[quote]Entertainment, whether filmed or live, is NOT going away.

Good entertainment is, however.

While I find all the new movie franchises inane (except for Harry Potter movies, which were well done), I don’t think cinema is dead. It’s an art that’s evolving rapidly with the proliferation of new platforms.

Seems like this old goat is saying it’s dead because it’s no longer the industry he knew/controlled and he doesn’t understand it.

[quote] For instance, film festivals could start collaborating and co-ordinating with distributors and venues to create a new chain for the theatrical exhibition of independent films.

As long as there are independent movie theaters, like Landmark we should be OK. They show a lot of schlocks, too. Let's not forget that. But they do show a broad variety of low budget movies. Not all of them are intriguing or interesting to me. I am fine with just a few being fun to watch.

Let's not forget who is really responsible for the mess: The viewers. They are the ones who go for all the AI generated mediocrity. It's not that people don't have a choice. Instead of going to the movie once a month, people like to see a movie once a week. And they are accepting mediocre work, just like they do with food, cars, music, anything really. And this is all fine as long as all the mediocrity still allows good things to flourish on the side.

[quote]They are the ones who go for all the AI generated mediocrity

Martin Scorsese said this was because this was all that was offered to them. People are starting to reject comic book films, but I think that’s because they’re terrible—terrible story, terrible acting.

I watched the latest super hero movie last night and thought it was a poster child for Hollywood's current problems: It had too much budget for its own good. The story was actually quite decent, acting too. But oh my god, it had action scenes at every corner. Some of them made sense, but most were avoidable or even made no sense whatsoever. And they all looked terribly staged with choreography all the same. It was so obvious that they were trying to find ways to spend all that money. To me it proved that even super hero movies can be decent with half the money.

China factors in with this whole mess. The market there is huge for American, CGI superhero movies. The gross there is something like two to three times the U.S. market for a blockbuster. So, if you wonder why movies are the same formula for the last 15 years, just remember that Hollywood has the yuan in its eyes.

“a firm believer that movie theaters need to be around forever.”

Multi-shoebox screening rooms are not movie theaters. They've all been torn down unless they've been turned into cultural centers.

If you think movies or tv or theater is dead, take a look at literature. Who or where are the great writers and works of literature of this generation?

Michael Ondaatje

Margaret Atwood

Ian McEwan

Alice McDermott

Kazuo Ishiguro

Apologies, at R64 I meant Polly Draper. Shiva Baby - well worth seeing.

Also, cinema isn’t just for spectacle. That’s very reductive. At its best, the cinema is where you go to sit in the dark and contemplate and reflect on your own experience in conjunction with the story depicted on screen. Cinema is a universal, visual language. People who go just for explosions or fast cars are really missing out.

Cinema will survive because it is a powerful storytelling experience.

r95, you're joking right?

[quote]If you think movies or tv or theater is dead, take a look at literature. Who or where are the great writers and works of literature of this generation?

American literary fiction crawled up its own ass and died about forty years ago, and popular fiction is as crappy as it ever was, but we're currently experiencing a golden age of nonfiction.

[quote] China factors in with this whole mess. The market there is huge for American, CGI superhero movies.

As is the case with American Universities, they have stopped caring about the actual CITIZENS of this country, and have long been catering to THOSE people.

Those foreigners.

And now they are reaping what they have sown.

GOOD FOR THEM! Serves those fuckers right, for betraying Americans, in favor of those people.

Nothing new. We've all known this fir 10 years now.

It's just that diller is forced to move over.

[quote] I believe Steven Spielberg and George Lucas sounded the alarms several years ago. Something about the film industry imploding.

They tried to warn people yet they got the blame for it with the "[italic]Jaws[/italic] and [italic]Star Wars[/italic] ruined everything" mantra.

But at that time their movies WERE innovative. So that doesn't count.

Spielberg is a great storyteller. So he'll always have a job in movies. Lucas fell into his own trap when he mistook great SFX for great movies.

[quote]On what planet is Broadway more creative? It's all jukebox musicals, musical adaptations of movies and revivals. Aside from Lin Miranda, can you honestly name one young original composer that has generated huge buzz in the last twenty years?

No, and it's a tragedy. It really is.

[quote]He hasn't been the same since Phyllis died.

On our honeymoon I put on a peekaboo blouse. He peeked and booed.

AHAHAHAHA!

Wokeness has raked in billions of dollars, enabling Hollywood to make more money while minority groups to feel welcome, included and represented.

BLACK PANTHER was a massive, worldwide hit.

The white supremacy and heterosexism that Boris is always demanding closes off half the people in the world. It's just terrible business, which a broke, failed business person like Boris doesn't need more of.

[quote]Entertainment, whether filmed or live, is NOT going away. Going to theaters on a wide scale however, is not long for this world - not with 4K/8k and 86” TVs soon to be the norm. And it’s inevitable, whether recorded or live,

Funny you should say that... it raises a point I suddenly found myself thinking. I am planning for retirement and intending to build. I realised, among rooms I'm imagining needs to be a small version of a screening room, comfortable seating at the right height and distance to enjoy a honking big TV screen. Because they're affordable.

As long as Hollywood keeps giving exclusive premiere windows to theaters, you bitches will keep going to theaters. Especially during the holidays, which is when they earn the most.

It's not about sound and presentation ‚— although theaters will always do that better than your home 8k system, despite your tryory.

It's all about where you legally CAN access new shows.

And Hollywood only offered streaming premieres for their best features because of the pandemic. That's all going to end this year and you'll have to go back to the theater.

r98 always mistakes DL for a Klan rally.

The free marketplace provides for everybody's needs and it has provided yours. So FUCK OFF and go watch InfoWars videos.

He's right and wrong. There are plenty of independent filmmakers out there without a lot of money but a lot of talent and passion. The problem is without theaters these filmmakers have very little chance of picking up distribution, and if any of the majors do happen to, they just dump them on their service with little promotion or fanfare. The major streaming services are handicapped in a way that the studios weren't decades ago. Not only do they have to factor in profitability, they also to factor in the diversity factor.

The last great hope, besides independent theaters, are niche streaming services like Shudder or Dekoo. We need services like those that can not only acquire new releases, but also have the ability to finance original content. The problem is that these services remain a niche because they are unable to compete with Netflix, HBO Max, etc.

Social media is also a buzzkill. Anticipation for new releases are gone when people are constantly leaking details about upcoming films or spoiling theme even before they are released. The hype may benefit certain films that may have flown under the radar, but they completely drain the excitement of tentpole movies.

I think the pandemic changed a lot of people in the sense that they don't want to be around that many people anymore, especially confrontational assholes, like the Karens, mask deniers, and Deplorables of society.

I decided to expand my home gym equipment and keep watching new movies at home rather than go to the movie theaters. But then I was never the guy who had to see a movie, because it was hyped for years by PR shills and the Hollywood's PR system.

[quote]"The movie business as before is finished and will never come back."

Yes well, he's right about that much. Comic book movies anyone? That's all though - just comic book movies.

[quote] Movies aren’t shot on film anymore, so what’s the point of watching them?

Huh?

The films coming out of Asia are really good.

What I don't understand is that the writing has been on the wall for the last 20 years. Everyone could see what was happening to the movie theater/Hollywood film industry. The pandemic has just been responsible for speeding up the inevitable. Yet people like Barry Diller and his idiot peers have resolutely stuck their heads in the sand, lived the good life and pretended nothing was ever going to change and steadfastly refused to do anything about what was clearly happening the the film industry.

Hollywood dragged their feet, looked the other way, pretended not to see and just went on as usual. First they sued the torrent users as if that would stop their demise. Then they pretended everything would just carry on as normal. Progressively, they stopped making actual films and started making "investment properties" only. Only films they thought would make money. Like Marvel and Superheroes and CGI and sequels. [bold]Then they just did absolutely nothing - except stare into the headlights.[/bold]

1. Hollywood isn't the sole producer of movies for Western countries anymore. It never will be again. Fact.

2. The general public doesn't want to watch a movie in a theater anymore (except for a very small cohort). The public want to watch entertainment at home in the comfort of their living rooms/expensive home theater systems and they want to watch it when they want and control the entire experience. Fact.

3. If Hollywood intends to ransom the public and force it to go to theaters as a way to fix their problem then they are in for a nasty shock. If new films aren't released on streaming services in future then the public will just wait until they are. Fact.

So, instead of getting off their fat assess and getting the best, most creative minds together to come up with an amazing plan of action to take Hollywood into the new digital era - perhaps like creating their own online platform and filling it with stunning, magical, can't get anywhere else content that people actually want to watch - they did nothing. Nothing at all.

[bold]NOW[/bold] they're all lamenting about how hard done they are as if it's a great big surprise! FFS. It's just too much.

[quote] Yet people like Barry Diller and his idiot peers have resolutely stuck their heads in the sand, lived the good life and pretended nothing was ever going to change and steadfastly refused to do anything about what was clearly happening the the film industry.

I feel the industry was rebounding a bit around three years ago. Yes, it will never reach the economic heights of 20+ years ago because people have too many options and with the theatrical window steadily shrinking, most felt they would rather wait for Netflix, Red Box or cable.

I had a Moviepass membership as did many at that time and the theaters (at least in Los Angeles) were always crowded thanks to that. I would get to the theater movies would be sold out or I would have to sit in the very front because people were using Moviepass. Theaters realized what was keeping audiences away was the price point, hence major chains rolling out their own movie ticket membership plans upon the demise of Moviepass.

Now, yes there are many who will stay away because of the pandemic and still being fearful or who may be struggling due to being laid off during the pandemic, but if there is a movie they want to see they'll see it. Hence the box office of "Black Widow" and "Fast 9". The movie going experience is a social one and there are many who still want to partake.

There is definitely a difference between movie theater and big screen TV. A more mental difference: The movie theater is a single purpose venue. The only thing I do there is watching a movie. Watching In the Heights at home made me read my phone, respond to text messages and clean the kitchen. You become unfocused, and there is a lot less intense movie experience. Just because of this, the movie theater experience will always be a preference.

The problem: Movie tickets and concessions are getting more and more expensive. And they are getting more expensive to pay for action scenes that I don't want (to the current extent) in the first place.

[quote]Like the railroad, the telephone, the fax machine and so on. These things are still around. But less important. We all must evolve.

Stupid much? From the Federal Railroad Association.

Running on almost 140,000 route miles, the U.S. freight rail network is widely considered the largest, safest, and most cost-efficient freight system in the world. [1] The nearly $80-billion freight rail industry is operated by seven Class I railroads [2] (railroads with operating revenues of $490 million or more) [3] and 22 regional and 584 local/short line railroads. [4] It provides more than 167,000 jobs [5] across the United States and offers ancillary benefits that other modes of transportation cannot, including reductions in road congestion, highway fatalities, fuel consumption, greenhouse gases, cost of logistics, and public infrastructure maintenance costs.

“THEY”= the MBAs and JDs that took over the film industry in the early ‘90s - finally have their chickens home to roost. These bean counters negated all creative impulsr and looked strictly at box office receipts and believed they could engineer box office hits via formula/algorithm. They refused to foster any indigenous US talent and actively pursued cheaper facsimiles from far flung corners of the universe.

Once the film world of independently-funded artists were taken over by large conglomerates, our (US) budding talented film makers were cast off for cheaper hacks (MBAs/JDs) thinking of making ‘base-hit’ pseudo successful films (ala Disney in the 90s).

You reap what you sow. By not nurturing young American film artists, you chose to place MBAs in charge of creative content (short-term) profits instead. Guess what? These mercenaries could NOT produce original and innovative films that were provocative and engaging - just bland MOR mediocre pablum that no one cared for.

Lesson to be learned is the US film industry must invest on bringing up young and talented voices to innovate and inspire others and simply state a FUCK OFF to non-creative corporate leeches (looking at you fucking agents/packagers). Maybe then you might have a resurgence of exciting, innovative, original film artists.

R30 It's his gay twin Fart Bochner

[quote] I just had a casting meeting with him and he said I got the role… while he was inside me! —Barely Legal Twink

Oh that’s just not right

R104 is Ling-Ling citing an atypical example while ignoring the dismal failure of [italic]A Wrinkle In Time[/italic] not to mention Chinese anti-Black racism against John Boyega on one of the [italic]Star Wars[/italic] posters.

That is totally Hart Bochner. There were other photos from that yacht trip that were scrubbed from the internet.

This is why Hollywood is going down the tubes.

Is the yellow stripe for Orientals and red ones for Ingins?^

I will always want to go to see a movie in a theatre on a big screen than seeing the movie at least for the first time on a tv... THAT IS if IF i'm not in a crowded theatre with 99% people on their phone, talking, coming in late, trumpsters, etc....

"It doesn't help when major stars keep on making those stupid repetitive sequels either!" I can't save the entire movie industry by myself fuckers! tom cruise.

i.e. mission impossible 7 and 8, the edge of tomorrow 2, top gun 2, jack reacher 2, etc..

I spent a good portion of my life in movie theaters in running them and then film distribution. I have zero desire to go to the movies anymore. The big giant multiplexes with 25 tiny screens don't interest me. I grew up in the age of the single house with a thousand seats, balconies, 70MM on 85 foot screens and 4 track stereo sound with a curtain that opened and closed. Those days are dead. And I have no interest in comic book movies.

You were lucky, R126. You were around before the big conglomerates looted the industry for all it was worth and kept it alive only by dumbing it down dramatically.

This has been happening for over 20 years, even in TV. People stopped wanting to watch dramas that didn’t involve violence. Any show that didn’t have that and wasn’t procedural was canceled quickly. So in that way, streaming was good because it gave diverse shows a chance. Movies were the same, dramas with real stories bombed in the 2000s. Even romcoms have died off. Before we at least had indies, but they’ve disappeared too. I happened on a few Ryan Gosling movies the other day, Half Nelson and Lars and the Real Girl. I don’t think they would be made today. It really has become only about blockbuster comic book films, sci-if, horror. Even that will start to disappear from theaters because of services like Disney+. So it’s a combo of viewers and the industry. It’s also responsible for the death of the superstar. Nobody stands out anymore with all the services. Nobody is hyped. Everyone has their own niche and they’re all disposable.

I won’t even get started about the PCness of everything today. I literally saw on IFC some comedian (not sure if it was a man or a woman) ripping apart Grease of all things as very problematic.

[quote] But I am 50. I need to see a story I haven't seen before.

There are only a handful of basic story plots.

According to Tolstoy, only two:

[quote] All great literature is one of two stories; a man goes on a journey or a stranger comes to town.

The pleasure is in how it's told.

What could be problematic about Grease? There were no trans POC students at a high school in the 1950s?

I have an idea, someone mentioned that part of what has pushed ticket prices up are all the expensive CGI/action scenes in movies today, well how about splitting the cinemas up - theatres solely for the big action blockbusters and theatres for everything else? That way the latter's ticket prices would be affordable, I also think you could use those theatres to show films from past decades, as many people would love an opportunity to see the classics on the big screen, especially for the first time, maybe even just on a whim, if the prices are low enough.

R130, they were going on about toxic masculinity. They didn’t like the lyrics in the songs and felt because it was set to music they got away with it. And yes, movie so white was brought up in a joking way of what would rhyme better with a lyric they were discussing and didn’t like. It was insufferable. I finally shut it off because the commentary was between every commercial break.

That's awful, r132. A movie from forty-plus years ago can't just be enjoyed for what it was, it has to be analyzed to death. These people are joyless scolds.

The music business went through this very same thing 5 years ago, so it was inevitable that the movie business would follow suit. Anybody who didn't see this coming is short-sighted.

Consumers stopped buying records and switched to streaming platforms like Spotify and Apple Music. Streaming now makes up almost 90% of all music consumption today. Apple has all but shut down iTunes because nobody is buying. Record stores all went out of business. However, the music industry was able to adapt to changing times and they are now making more money than they ever have before.

Similarly, movie theaters are closing down, people have stopped buying movie tickets and DVDs, and they get all of their entertainment content from platforms like Netflix, Disney+ and HBO Max.

[quote] However, the music industry was able to adapt to changing times and they are now making more money than they ever have before.

From the shittiest music that has ever been written. I laugh when Boomers complain about pop music in the 1970s. They don't know how good they had it.

[quote] However, the music industry was able to adapt to changing times and they are now making more money than they ever have before.

The music industry has headed into a shitty direction, IMO. I understand that everybody needs to make money, but the scales are so tipped at this point (toward the industry). Everything is streaming, i.e., you pay and then you pay again, every month.

[quote] However, the music industry was able to adapt to changing times and they are now making more money than they ever have before.

The nosedive in quality directly correlates with the popularity of streaming services.

TV hit rock bottom in the mid-1990s and had nowhere to go but up.

What brand of sunglasses is he wearing?

[quote]What could be problematic about Grease? There were no trans POC students at a high school in the 1950s?

There's nothing truly problematic about Grease or most other things, except for shrieking Twitter and the academics and journalists who leverage it.

The other thing that's hard for the movies is the number of malls that are being shuttered.

That's what you get for destroying those beautiful movie palaces and replacing them with those ugly twin cinemas and boring big-box multiplexes.

R20 As always you overreact. That bashing you allegedly got in 1995 has really done damage to you cognitive skills. I added wokeness to a list of reasons why the movie business is dying by indicating it didn't help but no where did I indicate except in your addle brain that it WASN'T streaming apps, the pandemic, change in audience tastes or horrible movie going experiences. Get a brain scan! Get laid!

"Black Widow" Stunner: Disney’s Streaming Revenue Reveal May Be Game-Changer:

Another comic book movie. This one with ScarJo so the incels can fap off to. So very original.

I was thinking the other day when someone said they were going to see BW about how little I've missed the moviegoing experience. I honestly can't say why over the years I've paid way more money than its worth to go see a movie there's no guarantee I'll like, in a room with a 100 other people all coughing, rustling and talking, and that's not factoring in the whole new "who has corona in here right now issue". Watching a movie at someone's house with friends booze and an ability to watch something else if we're not enjoying it is a far more enjoyable experience, and the size of most TVs now its not like you lose much in size or quality either.. I can't really think of anything that makes watching a movie at the cinema better than the other options. Atmosphere maybe but even that's more trouble than its worth with some audiences

The biggest disrupter in the film business is the gaming industry. Which is a billon dollar industry and has the coveted young demographic.

How can you reach this demographic (which is overwhelmingly young and male) and convince them to come to a movie theater instead? By producing superhero and CGI films that are close to the gaming experience. That is the result we have now.

r146, I think it's about nostalgia about either a really good one or several good ones (with a parent or friends).

Well, that demographic are one of the disrupters R147. Yes they want to watch those comic/cgi films - but they don't want to watch movies in a movie theater.

They regularly invest large amounts of money in home audio-visual equipment with constant updates to equipment, invest huge amounts of time in their home entertainment experience so they get exactly what they want. As a cohort, they want to control their entertainment experience - not have it dictated to them. When they watch those comic/cgi films they want to watch it via streaming services. They aren't going to magically start going to the theater.

"they don't want to watch movies in a movie theater"

Every gamer I know saw the last two Avengers movies in the theater. No one wanted to wait for the stream or DVD.

They torrented a BluRay quality version of it R150. The Black Widow torrent was available for download the day after the film was released at various GIG sizes/qualities - some even in Dolby Atmos.

Then, they watched it on their superior and excellent quality home entertainment system...

You don't know enough gamers by the sounds of it.

They want to stream films. They don't want to be forced to go to old fashioned movie theater. This describes most (95%) of the straight, male demographic.

I'm going to get sooo Mary!'d, I might as well put on a white gown, but....

There was an old theater in my hometown, a 20s Art Deco one that would have fabulous showings of old movies I got to see as a tween. I saw Breakfast at Tiffany's and GWTW on the big screen. The crowds would dress up and it was electric. I want that to last.

Sounds wonderful^.

Today's kids will never get that this was fun and a huge part of going to the movies. We LIKED waiting on line with our friends. Getting online early enough to get your favorite seat. Watching the crowds reaction when they exited. Now a movie will open at a megaplex on 14 screens.

I never like(d) waiting in line for anything. I love reserving seats online, and going to the theater in time without need to rush. I like sitting down in a big fat recliner and having food delivered to my seat. And then watch the movie on a huge screen with best audio. That's what I like.

^ couch potato

You sound like my aunt. We took her to the theater at R154 The Loews Astor Plaza in Times Sq for "The Empire Strikes Back opening Saturday night. 1400 people all waiting in that line then, they brought us down to the huge lobby to wait for the show playing ended. She was so miserable and we were so pumped. Probably never forgave us.

Theater Owners Blast Disney for Making ‘Black Widow’ Available Immediately on Streaming:

Their anger is justified. Nobody is going to the movies to see something they can watch in the comfort of their own home.

And since every movie today could easily be streamed on big beautiful TV screens, it proves that the theater business is a house of cards just waiting to collapse. The jig is up! We have the technology. We have high speed internet. We have big screen TVs. We have WiFi. We have the services and payment systems. The infrastructure is all there! Now Hollywood can only get people into theaters at gunpoint by withholding movies from streaming services for no reason other than greed. The pandemic has exposed the sham.

R159- You should also mention that watching movies at home allows FAT WHORES easy access to their supplies of Ice Cream, Pizza , Cookies and Cheese Doodles in the comfort of their homes.

I forgot to mention that watching movies at home allows FAT WHORES like me easy access to our supplies of Ice Cream, Pizza, Cookies and Cheese Doodles in the comfort of our homes.

Black widow is one of those films I’d watch in the theatre or not at all.

Who would have thought that NATO has a stake in movie release strategies.

R142- You're complaining about that now. They started knocking down those MAGNIFICENT movie palaces in the 1950's when movie attendance plummeted because many people stopped going to the movies so they could stay at home and watch Milton Berle in DRAG on their new Stromberg Carslon 8 inch television.

Every god damn week there's another superhero/comic book movie coming out. That's all they put out any more.

R165, I agree that it's beyond ridiculous now. As far as I'm concerned, Marvel has ruined superhero movies for me. I have no interest in seeing them anymore.

I liked a few of the Marvel movies when they were still new or fairly new - Captain America was great - but JFC it's the same basic plot over and over and over now. I got bored with the genre a while ago.

R161 and to be on their cell phones

The one film I regret not seeing in IMAX is Mad Max: Fury Road. I heard that was an incredible movie experience and I loved it, but saw it at home.

Will the celebrities still be able to shop on Rodeo Drive? How is the economic health of the stars? I’d hate to see them struggle.

I really don't know why this is such a dilemma for the industry. Just go back to the way it was before the pandemic -- release a movie to theaters, let it run for 2-3 months so it can make money, then release it on streaming. That way everybody wins.

If it's a title that people are anxious to see (and by "people," I mean 14-year-old boys), I think they would make the effort. And I'm sure teens today are just like we were 50 years ago in that they like to get out of the house on a Friday and Saturday night and the movies give them somewhere to go, especially if it's for something they can't wait to see.

[quote]That's what you get for destroying those beautiful movie palaces and replacing them with those ugly twin cinemas and boring big-box multiplexes.

A recent episode of the 99 Percent Invisible podcast discussed how the introduction of those 20+ theater multi-plexes with stadium seating that started being built in the 90s actually led to the explosion of indie films at the time. Seems that because the theaters chains had all of these screens, they needed more films to play on them. Which opened up opportunities for independent filmmakers to get their films shown. But then somewhere along the way, the big studios started insisting that their blockbusters be given more screens when they opened. That's when you started getting films like "Independence Day" and "Batman & Robin" opening on 8 to 10 of the 24 screens in a single multi-plex. Once that took hold, the independent films got pushed out and the studios took back control with their superhero and other franchise films. And moviegoing has sucked ever since.

R172 Kind of reminds me of now of how indies made a comeback during the streaming era only to be overtaken again by more of the same.

If you want to be rich and famous, become an influencer. Marilyn Monroe today would've started an OnlyFans.

The American Hollywood Movie business is changing. Less so in other countries, were almost all movies are "independent" style meaning modest productions and character based. I just watched several movies from Argentina that were good movies and worth my time.

Hollywood has to produce this bizarre product meant to please masses around the world from hundreds of cultures, at least.

"Hollywood" still makes prestige award bait movies but not that many and they aren't even that good. They win awards and most of the public never sees them and they are quickly forgotten by those who do see them.

American movies are made for every country but the US these days.

[quote] They started knocking down those MAGNIFICENT movie palaces in the 1950's when movie attendance plummeted because many people stopped going to the movies so they could stay at home and watch Milton Berle in DRAG on their new Stromberg Carslon 8 inch television.

Nope. The 1948 Supreme Court Paramount decree was the death knell. However....

I thought twinned cinemas were a 1970s thing.

...it appears the ruling may soon be gone.

If Disney starts buying theaters, it's game over for American popular culture.

Gloria Swanson in the middle of the 6,214 seat Roxy movie palace being demolished in NYC. Now an office building.

r177, is that the reason why Jeff Bezos hasn't purchased a movie theater chain yet?

R181 I am big! It's the movie theaters that got smaller

r178 I think you are right. I can remember a twin theater in my town dating back to about 1975. Not sure if it was a single theater at one point. Probably was.

I cancelled all streaming services a month ago to take a break. I got tired of watching crappy, unremarkable film and TV. I’m not a film snob but realized I watching shit movie/ TV content was a huge waste of time. The only thing I have are music streaming services and bought a blu-Ray of a Spanish film I liked. But for the most part, the TV is off. I did the same with the news media and podcasts and spend time being more productive while I listen to good music. It has been nice. I’m trying to do more reading as well. My hope is good films will return, but who knows. Sound of Metal was my favorite film last year. I hear it’s going right to Criterion. Can’t wait!

How is The Criterion Channel? Any good?

I am big. It's the pictures that got small.

Another old fat white dude ranting about "the good ole days."