Behind The Candelabra

The plastic surgery that Scott had in order to look like Liberace, why? Who wanted that, Scott or Liberace? That was creepy as hell. Liberace seemed to be a kind and generous man with a great sense of humor. His death was very sad. I did not remember his cause of death being listed as anemia either. Was this based on the book that Scott wrote?

R1, yes. It was based on Scott’s book. According to Scott, it was Lee who wanted him to have the strange surgeries to look like him. The only thing Scott asked for was a chin implant. He also alleges that Liberace’s plastic surgeon got him hooked on drugs.

Damon was far too old to play the younger Thorson, but he could only dream of being half as attractive at any age. I'd STILL fuck Damon...right in that "womanly" ass of his.

R2- I do not believe that about the surgery getting him addicted to drugs. I always thought that he was already a drug user when he met Liberace, but of course I could be wrong. I have read a bit about them years ago remember that Liberace's friends did not like Scott at all, they thought he was a drug addict who was using Liberace. Scott did go on to lead a sleezy life, if I remember correctly, and was in the Enquirer all of the time for a few years.

R4 Scott had a lot of problems. He was a foster child and his parents were addicts and had mental health issues of their own. It is no wonder Scott was fucked up. He was only 17, but looked 30.

I think Liberace had a type that he looked for...

How did people back then not know this was gay?

OP, cannot believe I just watched this, too.

It must have been quite the life with Liberace. He does seem kind and generous. Scott should have saved his money and jewels so as to be ready when he got replaced. It seems the guy before Scott was smarter because he managed to keep the house Liberace gifted him with. I'm surprised Liberace wasn't more generous in the end with Scott, but Scott did react badly, smashing things and threatening Liberace.

There's a book by the same title.

I've always thought that if they had released this film in the theatres, Douglas would have got his second acting Oscar.

Same with Claire Danes and that Temple Grandin TV movie. She'd have won the Oscar for Best Actress.

[quote]How did people back then not know this was gay?

They were too slow to see the gay in people.

Now they're too fast.

R7

People knew. Back in the day, if a man was a "confirmed bachelor" and effeminate as Liberace was, people guessed but they didn't really talk about it. Also, it was assumed that perhaps the man didn't accept his homosexuality and didn't want to be open about it, so it wasn't anyone's business. People were nicer about it than you might think. There wasn't the hatred, just a don't ask don't tell feeling.

R9 it is a shame that they settled for an HBO release. The finished film was thought “too gay” for a mainstream audience. I agree, he did a terrific job in this film.

Back in the '50s, he was like Elvis for old ladies. My mom used to tell a story about Mrs. Shelnutt, an elderly neighbor who went to see him in concert, got him to autograph her hand because she didn't have anything to write on, and declared she was never washing that hand again.

Some people definitely knew about his sexuality. I always think of the episode of “I Love Lucy” where Ricky’s agent tells him that he will make Rick the Cuban Liberace. The laugh from the audience and the look on Desi’s face says it all.

Was Scott with him until Liberace died? I do hope Scott has gotten his life together and has gotten help with his addiction and mental health disorders. Liberace barley kept it legal, didn't he? LoL. I'm sure I must be thinking of someone else, but was Scott ever friends with that famous porn actor with the huge dick? John Holmes? He was involved bit never charged with the Wonderland murders. I will look up.

My mom liked Liberace, I think because he played the piano so well. She liked Liberace and LoVED Johnny Mathis. I think my dad gently teased her about it, and she denied Mathis was gay.

R15/ Edit: involved BUT never charged.

R16- He had many middle aged women fans, lol. I don't know why nor do I know if they refused to acknowledge that he was gay.

R18 according to Scott, many of Liberace’s female fans had no clue he was gay. They thought Sonja Henie broke his heart and that he just didn’t recover from the trauma. Denial isn’t just a river in Egypt.

We received a Christmas card from Liberace every year for at least a dozen years. My father would interview Lee when he came to town to play two local venues that were on the summer circuit. One was an outdoor amphitheater. One was a “music tent” the likes of which were popular in the 1960s and 1970s.

R11 is right about the don’t ask, don’t tell approach people took. If he was happy with his lifestyle, so be it.

Offstage, he was naughty but in a tittering, oh that bad boy kind of way that was accepted in those days. He’d flirt with both sexes. Everyone was in on the gag.

Onstage, he was over the top. His roadshow costumes went from mildly showy to extravagant affairs. When he started to play the larger venues his outfits shone to reach the cheap seats. Both venues were always packed.

The Christmas cards were very clever. They’d come in a large flat envelope and I’d get to put them together. The one I remember best was heavy gold-colored cardstock that turned into a cone-shaped Christmas tree with Liberace by a piano. There were mini rhinestones on the candelabra and tiny jewels on his fingers.

We always looked forward to receiving them.

For decades hundreds women watched Liberace in performances or listened to his recordings and said they hoped their sons would grow up just like him. Equally for decades hundreds of fathers replied they hoped not!

OP When Liberace died his people rushed to move his corpse to be embalmed and prepared for burial. Liberace's personal physical attested to death caused by anemia and signed death certificate listing that as cause of death. You see Liberace had been diagnosed with HIV/AIDs infection by his private doctor in Las Vegas almost two years before he died.

No one counted on Riverside County Coroner exerting his legal authority to examine (autopsy) Liberace's corpse, and though family, attorney's and personal physician put up a stink, in the end the coroner won. That's how the whole ghastly business of Liberace having HIV/AIDs came out, and it was listed on his death certificate as cause of death

The bitter and nasty battle over Liberace's "privacy" sparked a debate that went on for years. One thing came out of it was California and many other (if not all) states passed laws mandating written consent before HIV/AIDS antibody testing could be done. Laws were also passed concerning privacy of such information and test results.

Liberace's family, estate and attorneys were no different than scores if not hundreds of other instances where HIV/AIDS related illness was cause of death. Families or whoever of men from famous to nobodies begged physicians or whoever was filling out death certificates not to list HIV/AIDS.

Many cases deceased were just like Liberace, closeted gay men (or at least not officially confirmed out and proud), and surviving family, handlers, etc.. just didn't want that bit of information becoming public knowledge.

[Quote]He had many middle aged women fans, lol. I don't know why nor do I know if they refused to acknowledge that he was gay.

Reminds me of the Claymates. They seemed sheltered, religious , and unsophisticated.

I wonder if one rationalization is "Oh, that's just a stage persona he has to use. It's just an act." And then there's the UK libel case that he won against the Mirror.

This is what people didn't want happening...

Isn't it a law that the county coroner has to examine, evaluate, and make public every death within their jurisdiction?

To give credit where due Liberace was not called "Mr. Showmanship" for nothing. The man was a very accomplished performer and pianist.

As with so many obviously or closeted gays that people either knew or suspected, that was the man's business and not why anyone was paying money to see/hear them perform. People went to see Liberace, bought is recordings, etc... to be entertained. That's what he did, and they were happy. What the man got up to in his private life was largely his own business far as many were concerned.

R24

Statues vary by state, but generally follow sort of same laws laid down in California.

New York...

R20- Yes, the " wink and a nod" acceptance, lol. His pianos were stunning. I just loved seeing his shows on TV whenever he when he would be a guest on any of the late shows. He was very talented and 8charming. He was flirty and fun. I miss him and I wish his shows and guests appearances were shown more on TV. I remember the lawsuit that he won because the jury refused to believe that Liberace would be caught dead in a plain brown suit, lol. He was very talented and a fun, lovely man.

Liberace's personal physician defended his actions by saying there wasn't enough conclusive proof HIV/AIDS related illness was cause of death. Thus he felt there wasn't a need to violate his (late) patient's privacy....

"There was enough doubt about whether Liberace had AIDS to justify his doctor's decision to protect the showman's privacy by reporting heart failure as the cause of death, the physician's attorney said Thursday."

"The attorney, William Ginsburg, said in an interview that Dr. Ronald Daniels and the Eisenhower Medical Center here had obeyed the law by telling health agencies that AIDS tests administered before Liberace's death did not disclose whether the entertainer had the disease. A blood test administered in January showed that Liberace had been infected by the virus that causes acquired immune deficiency syndrome, but those who are infected do not necessarily contract the disease."

Debbie Reynolds was quite good too.

Sounds like the personal physician was still on the payroll after Liberace's death.

R31

Maybe, then again maybe not.

Personal physicians are often just that, many have long relationship with their patients and genuinely do care.

Remember that scene in Peyton Place where the young girl raped by her father becomes pregnant? The family doctor tells his nurse he'll take care of the charting and officially the girl had some sort of minor procedure, not an abortion. His nurse gets all high mighty about professional ethics, to which doctor replies he'll start talking around town about her and a certain medical salesman.....

Yes it was fiction but doctors do often care about the personal and professional reputation of their patients, even if only in memory after demise.

As stated already many gay men spent their entire lives in closet (or as best they could in one), until HIV/AIDs began culling gay communities all over world. Remember this was early days in AIDs epidemic where no small number of people felt gays were getting just what they deserved.....

As with Rock Hudson, Tony Perkins and many other famous gay men who died of the madness, HIV/AIDs became the story line.

Personally have never understood why cause of death is anyone's business anyway. Absent some tragic event or accident what is the good of people knowing?

[quote]He also alleges that Liberace’s plastic surgeon got him hooked on drugs.

I can't count the number of times I have used the same excuse.

I seem to remember someone close to him, a friend or a caretaker who did confirm years later that he died of Aids, but I could be wrong. I just remember being very sad when I read how sick and sad he was to be dying. He was still kind and generous to the end. There will never be another Liberace. He had talent, showmanship, a wicked, witty, but gentle sense of humor. He was unique and one of a kind. I miss him and all of the truly talented entertainers we have lost.

R32- Same. No one owes anyone that information and it is an invasion of privacy, imo.

Was he good pianist?

Although I was a kid back then I remember how they hounded Liberace’s team until it was exposed as an AIDs death. At that point, I remember thinking why won’t they leave this dead man alone. Liberace was not even someone I knew that much about, but I knew it was overkill. The Ricky Martin being upset with Barbara Walters thread was almost at the end of that shit, but the media was relentless in trying to out people. I actually think by Ricky Martin/Lance Bass the public-well the non-conservatives-were sick of the constant speculation.

R36. Yes, he was good-extremely showy, but homeboy had chops. I don’t think he was terribly original or much of a composer, but he could play fast and accurate.

R36

Yes, Liberace was a very accomplished pianist.

Rather than do a long post, read Liberace's Wiki page.

Mrs. Liberace (the mother) was a trained classical pianist before her marriage. The father played French horn and loved music.

New York Times says.....

"Born in 1919 to a humble family in West Allis, Wis., near Milwaukee, Liberace had precocious talent and solid training. His Italian immigrant father, who played the French horn in bands but also held down jobs as a laborer, recognized his son’s gifts. Liberace took lessons with Florence Kelly, a student of the virtuoso Moriz Rosenthal."

"But while Liberace studied classical piano, he also played popular music and jazz in theaters and cabarets. At 20 he played Liszt’s Second Piano Concerto with the Chicago Symphony Orchestra for a concert in Milwaukee. The reviews were positive, especially from the critic in The Milwaukee Sentinel, who wrote that Liberace “kept Liszt’s bombastic passages within reason” and “did not miss some of the piano’s most liquid conversations with the woodwinds.”

Jack Startz, the plastic surgeon, committed suicide after disfiguring "realtor to the stars" Elaine Young with silicone injections intended to augment her cheeks. She underwent more than 40 surgeries to try to correct the damage, and she later died of cancer that was likely caused by the residual silicone in her face.

[quote]Aids

AIDS. Each letter stands for a word. We call them acronyms.

Old ladies liked him because he was "the son who never left his mother".

He could play well but often didn't and abridged pieces. People were more aware of major classical pieces in those days but that didn't mean they had the patience to listen to everything in its entirety.

By all reports he was generous with his tricks, but they were always replaced. Thorson was too dumb to accept that.

Dr. Jack Startz was actually a highly qualified plastic surgeon known for his good work. Sadly he believed a bit too much in silicone injections which caused problems. His suicide could have been triggered by any number of things going on in his life at time including rumors of problems with IRS.

A lot of straight people loved camp entertainment which guys like Liberace and Paul Lynde performed but detested homosexuality since they considered that a sin. Back then they were able to separate flamboyance and gay sex.

That being said Elaine Young shouldn't have rushed onto Dr. Startz's operating table.

Recall trannies and drag queens raving about silicone injections back in 1980's and 1990's. They all had problems later in life, and those still living regret ever having those injections to hips, butt, cheeks, breasts, etc..

[quote] Liberace's friends did not like Scott at all, they thought he was a drug addict who was using Liberace.

Really? What's suspicious about a strapping, handsome 17 year old falling madly in love with a fay, controlling 65 year old bald queen?

[quote] I think Liberace had a type that he looked for...

Yes. Male.

I just watched it again recently too. it is interesting to view with the Autopsy episode on Liberace though the Autopsy shows never seem to cast actors who look anything like their real-life counterparts for the reenactments.

Didn't Liberace have a type? Big dick? Scott was supposed to have 10 inches.

[quote] I just watched it again recently too. it is interesting to view with the Autopsy episode on Liberace though the Autopsy shows never seem to cast actors who look anything like their real-life counterparts for the reenactments.

Rip Taylor wasn't available. Dead, you know. All in all, I still think LeVar Burton did a fine job as Lee's corpse.

"Nice women" were supposed to be incredibly sexually ignorant and it was assumed that unless they were forced by circumstances to learn about the existence of gay sex (poor dears), they just assumed all men were straight. Who knows how many of them really thought Liberace was straight or how many were just playing along with the rules of what a lady was supposed to think or not think.

One of the reasons we don't accept older people helping themselves to underaged or barely legal partners anymore is that it's incredibly unfair and unhealthy for the kids, no matter how loving and well-meaning the adult may be. There may be perfectly stable happy adults who grew up under the obligation to satisfy an older person's sexual and emotional needs as if they were adults but still satisfy their partner's need for them to remain dependent subservient children, but that's going to be the exception.

As a gay man, I find myself torn about Liberace. I get that he was closeted, as he was a product of his time, yet his devotion to the Catholic Church and suing people for making gay accusations disgusts me.

[quote] Damon was far too old to play the younger Thorson, but he could only dream of being half as attractive at any age.

In Behind the Candelabra they used some CGI and heavy body makeup to make Damon look younger, such as giving him abs and digitally reducing the size of his ass and hips.

[quote] Sincerely Yours, the Liberace Story

R55 seriously?? They digitally slimmed his ass?!

[quote] R55 seriously?? They digitally slimmed his ass?!

Yes. Julianne Moore seriously.

Here's one scene where they "drew" abs and pecs on his body (some makeup and some CGI according to what I saw).

Same scene.

Slimmed ass and hips.

Same scene. It's rather obvious once one sees it closely.

[quote] Debbie Reynolds was quite good too.

She was indeed. Had this been theatrically released in the US, as it was in other countries, she may have been nominated for an Oscar.

I also forgot to add that Debbie Reynolds knew Liberace's mother which informed her performance according to Debbie.

I identified with the scenes where Liberace is gaslighting Scott about his cheating. I was in a relationship with an older man who used to talk to me the same way whenever I called him out over his suspect texts. Nobody casually tells their interior decorator “I love you”.

[quote] right in that "womanly" ass of his.

What do you mean by “womanly”?

Why didn’t Matt Damon just work out? Digital abs and ass slimming is kind of sad for somebody who was only in his early forties.

Yes, It was a great “made for TV movie.” Loved his quote at the end, “Too much of a good thing is wonderful!” Too bad that I heard the Liberace museum in Vegas closed long before the pandemic-not enough interest

r65 Roomy in the hips

Here is an interesting thing I found.

R69 thanks for the link! I love Findadeath. I stopped going a while back because all kinds of malware shit was popping up.

R54 in a way, Liberace had to protect his image. Back then very few people were “out” and few if any celebs. Confirmed gaiety would have been death to his career and even his ability to live a decent life.

At the end of the film they tell you Scott is “Currently living in Reno”. What they fail to mention is he was actually in a Reno jail. I think it was for bad checks or stolen credit card info. Something like that.

every now and again I'll stumble on a Liberace clip and am amazed at how it all comes together. his schtick, the audience loving it..... quite something.

Sincerely Yours premiere...

Scott will be out and about soon. From his wiki:

In September 2013, he tested positive for methamphetamine, but was given another chance. He subsequently failed drug tests again — twice in October, and again on November 1, 2013. He was arrested on November 19, 2013, after violating a court order to enter an inpatient treatment facility in Reno two weeks earlier. On January 23, 2014, his probation was revoked and he was sentenced to 8 to 20 years in Nevada prison.[21] As of March 2021 he was completing his term in unsupervised custody in residential confinement,[22] with a projected release date of August 30, 2022 unless paroled earlier.[23]

The character Cheyanne Jackson played was actually based on a man named Vince Cardell. The wiki page is vague-ish. He left his wife and kids for Lee? I find it amusing that he was a fixture at a place called “Gaylord”. What else do we know about her?

A vision in animal print...

Liberace definitely had some narcissistic tendencies when it came to his men. He fashioned them to look like him. Weird.

Liberace, as a flamboyant gay man, was treated well because he was rich, famous, and talented. Flamboyant gay men across the board were not treated well (in general) and still aren't. I see some posters almost romanticizing the "don't ask, don't tell" approach to Liberace. It's not something I want to go back to.

R15 No. Lee kicked Scott out and hooked up with a dancer in his opening act. Both of them discovered they had AIDS and ultimately died from it.

R78 - he looks like an elderly woman at a Vegas tour who just got off the tour bus and is enjoying her first dinner in the city with a performer to his left.

Wow, I forgot that Michael Douglas played Liberace. Yes, he should have won an Academy Award. Someone must have really wanted Matt Damon in the movie to do all that CGI. MD did look good and his acting was good, too.

R81- Thank you. His face looks huge and odd. I wonder did he continue to have plastic surgeries or fillers before he was incarcerated.

R82 right? I don’t understand why they didn’t just get somebody younger and more fit.

[quote] Someone must have really wanted Matt Damon in the movie to do all that CGI.

I think Soderbergh really wanted Damon, with whom he'd worked before on the Ocean's movies, despite his age. If I recall Damon protested that he was too old for the part, but Soderbergh insisted.

This article talks about the real people featured in the film.

Matt Damon does have a twink face, though.

If Liberace had never contracted AIDS and lived into the 90s, I wonder if he would have come out eventually.

[quote] If Liberace had never contracted AIDS and lived into the 90s, I wonder if he would have come out eventually.

Considering the demographics of his fans, I'd say no, he would have to remain "ambiguous." (He would be ambiguous to someone in denial.)

R23 His autopsy says "Subject was unable to swallow"

LIES!

Women were much more naive in the 50s, 60s, and 70s. They were protected from many things, although one might hear from a brother or father, "he's a bit light in the slippers", some did not know what that meant. Or they sort of did, but that's as far as it went.

Women were protected from things because it was thought they couldn't handle male sexuality (and in some ways, that attitude is correct). Also, women's desire to catch a man and be loved blinded them from seeing what was so obvious (and that desire is still alive in some women).

The relationship of women and gay men has always been a special one, and still is today. That's what all those old ladies were enjoying with Liberace.

[quote]Yes, he should have won an Academy Award.

Back then, TV movies were not eligible for Oscars.

Liberace figured out early on that he didn't like classical piano. He knew he was a good pianist, but not a great one.

R91 - I agree. Some of my best friends through life have been and are still women. Can laugh, discuss and enjoy yourself without the need to put on a show or impress (or put on a show you wouldn't put on in front of people you wouldn't want to look foolish in front of).

[quote]Rip Taylor wasn't available. Dead, you know.

The movie was made in 2013. Rip Taylor died in 2019.

But it was the watermelon diet!

[quote] Women ... were protected from many things ... Women were protected from things because it was thought they couldn't handle male sexuality (and in some ways, that attitude is correct).... The relationship of women and gay men has always been a special one ...

Protected from what? A man being into a man? Women get raped by heterosexual men, not gay men. Also, judging from DL threads ("frau cunt"), lots of gay men don't feel a special relationship with women in general.

Only old ladies and mentally impaired people had zero clue about Queen Lee. Just look at the thumbnail and there is no doubt.

R97 - I have that poster with the "frau cunt" obsession blocked. He also types in caps and trolls threads.

[quote]Back then, TV movies were not eligible for Oscars.

They still aren't.

But I thought this started as a film for release and was switched to TV.

R100 you are correct. It was to be released in theaters, but nobody would pick it up because there were concerns about straight Americans being put off. Fucking breeders.

[quote]They still aren't.

r100 Well, sort of. All of those things that were released direct to streaming are eligible, so there's really not much of a distinction anymore.

R95

You took it out of context. The reply was regarding a more recent episode of CELEBRITY AUTOPSY on cable (Reelz?)

[quote] AIDS. Each letter stands for a word. We call them acronyms.

I'm sorry, but it's "The AIDS," not "AIDS."

[quote] But it was the watermelon diet!

Lee thought the watermelon diet had something to do with being seeded.

Findadeath said Queen Lee had an inflamed rectum. After taking all of that young meaty cock I am shocked she didn’t need a diaper.

[quote]I'm sorry, but it's "The AIDS," not "AIDS."

Not if you are white.

The diabeetus.

What, precisely, was behind the candelabra?

[quote] What, precisely, was behind the candelabra?

A rich and powerful man who would chew you up and spit you out.

Aren't there still many celebrities who died from HIV/AIDS, but had it covered up? We'll never really know. Of course, not every gay or bisexual man who died in the 80s and 90s died that way, but a lot of the deaths seem suspicious.

R109 Liberace getting fisted by teenage sluts.

R96 he got AIDS from watermelons?

I remember a conversation between my parents and a couple that was close friends with them. For some reason, the women started talking about how good-looking and basically how hot Rock Hudson was. The two men immediately said Rock was a homosexual and the two women vehemently started arguing with them. They kept saying he was too masc to be gay. I think they thought only men who were flamboyant were gay.

R111

I always thought that Paul Lynde, who died suddenly of a "heart attack" in 1982, might have really been an undiagnosed casualty. Others who come to mind from 1982 are Victor Buono (sudden heart attack), Rainer Werner Fassbinder (drug overdose), James Broderick (cancer), Joey Forman (pulmonary fibrosis), and in 1983 Robert Christian (cancer, but really AIDS). There were probably a lot celebrity deaths misattributed in those early years.

R115 except that Paul Lynde wasn’t sick or in hiding before he died. People with AIDS back then had to hide, as they would have been visibly ill.

R67 I went to the Liberace Museum! It was quite a distance from the strip, so they had a mini bus that left every hour from a few casinos, to the museum located in a strip mall. Next door was a luxurious fur shop affiliated with Liberace. Burning hot 100° not a tree in sight.

The museum was on two floors (winding curved staircase up) with the full array of stage clothes and furs, jewelry, crystal encrusted pianos, and personal furniture and items, emphasis on gold and leopard. Didn't get anything in the gift shop, and remember cursing whil⁷e waiting for the return bus. A shame it couldn't have been on the strip or even downtown.

True, at least not that we know about. I also thought early sufferers died relative fast.

I don't know anyone who goes to Las Vegas.

Wouldn't "Candelabra In The Behind" have been a better title?

One of my favorite DL Liberace comments came from the thread below:

Liberace admitted himself he wasn't a great pianist. He said he was told by a piano teacher that he would never be a concert grade pianist, so he decided to become an entertainer playing popular music instead. His shows were about his personality, he was really an old vaudeville-style variety entertainer. He would tell jokes and talk while he played. He appeared on variety shows playing the piano and doing small skits, stuff like the Carol Burnett show or similar variety shows. He was known to be a charming, self-effacing, friendly and unpretentious man that was always gracious to his fans. As he said when he was criticized by the critics, " I cried all the way to the bank."

It's a shame he couldn't be an out gay man then. A lot of people then didn't really know any out gay people and didn't understand his campy persona was just in the tradition of gay camp. They'd never seen gay camp. People just thought of him as a type of quintessentially American entertainer. The more and more over-the-top costumes were said to be his way of outdoing himself from the last show, to give his audience their money's worth. They were a sort of joke between him and his fans. People came to his shows to see what grandiose spectacle he would put on next.

This was kind of similar to the kind of extreme costumes and eyeglasses Elton John performed in, in his early days. Elton John's early onstage persona was inspired by him. Every new Liberace show had to be bigger and better than the last.

I think as the years passed, he was tired of being in the closet and just wanted to be a flamboyant gay man. In the Seventies he could almost, but not quite get away with it. At least he was in all but name. He was a pioneer in mainstream gay entertainment and I think that's how he'd like to be remembered now.

Here's a clip of Liberace playing the piano with comedian Jack Benny. Benny was famous for playing the violin horribly. They're playing a version of Jack Benny's musical theme, Liberace style, complete with flourishes, much to Benny's annoyance.

Link for r121

“Too much of a good thing makes your asshole loose.”

Thorson was an idiot. Remember the scene in Candelabra where the bitchy houseman tells Scott that he's just one in a long line of many and will be replaced? I don't know if that happened in real life, but even if it didn't, Thorson should have known that he was on a short timeline with Liberace. He should have kept in shape, kept off the drugs, saved up all the jewelry and asked for a house, too. That way, when Liberace showed him the door, he'd have something.

I, too, visited the Liberace museum in Las Vegas. Frankly, I was a little disappointed at the quality of the building and the way things were displayed. It seemed like a cheap-ish set-up.

I also visited the Wayne Newton house (now closed). That was interesting, surprisingly small. He had horses there, a small zoo, and a small plane. You had to pay extra to go upstairs (in the house). I didn't pay the extra.

Of course Liberace was "kind and generous" to his boy toys...until he got tired of them. He was just a rich queen who paid young studs to fuck him, and when he tired of them he went on to the next one. I didn't find him a particularly "nice" human being.

Steve Schirripa (Bobby Bacala, Sopranos) used to live in LV and said that Liberace was very nice to him. "Behind" the nice facade, I guess, was a man who treated boyfriends as disposable. Part of the problem was selecting a young man / boy who came into the "relationship" with existing problems. The plastic surgery part is weird. Liberace was not conventionally good-looking (face). Why would he want his partner to look like him?

Liberace should have had a more business-like relationship with his boyfriends.

What was in front of the candelabra?

[quote]He was just a rich queen who paid young studs to fuck him, and when he tired of them he went on to the next one.

And that's a bad thing?

R128 Lee’s uncircumcised, sore riddled, little dingus.

R7 Thank you for that beautiful clip! Lee was gorgeous and so kind.

R7 we knew. It was just impolite to mention it.

R54

Are you not familiar with self loathing closeted gays? God knows we've covered them frequently enough on DL, start with Tony Perkins and work your way down list......

As for Liberace's devotion to Catholic religion, please..... There are plenty of those both past and present of all faiths in congregation or at altar so flaming they could cook a BBQ. They're right up there with conservative "family values" men in politics or whatever that get caught in the bushes with some young man. And they're always the ones catching, not pitching.....

The hypocrisy of such gay is called out in comedy by characters like Beverly Leslie from Will and Grace

R127

Steve Schirripa didn't just "live" in Las Vegas, he was a legend and force to be reckoned with as entertainment director of (now demolished) Riviera Comedy Club...

[quote] Steve Schirripa didn't just "live" in Las Vegas, he was a legend and force to be reckoned

And there isn't even a plaque or a signpost or a statue of him in that town.

Are we talking about Steve Schirripa, Moe Greene or Bugsy Siegel?

Well, no wonder Steve Schirripa now lives in Orange County.

Back then, Lee wasn’t the only one. Richard Simmons’ career was cut from the same cloth even if in different fields. Paul Lynde, Jim Neighbors, etc. It’s kind of amazing that because they were perceived as kind and essentially harmless people didn’t HATE them in the way that some other gays were persecuted.

Debbie Reynolds was barely in it. The only decent scene she had was when Frances won the money in the slot machine.

Did Vince Cardell’s wife pimp him out to Liberace?

Jim *Nabors* flew under many people's radar. He along with more than a few others like Roy Stuart, Hayden Rorke, etc... largely kept their private life just that. Yes, some people knew, but most as with Jim Nabors simply felt it was their personal business.

Jim Nabors never stopped being loved as a good ole boy Sylacauga, Alabama. His recordings sold well in particular gospel, and he was invited to sing "Back Home Again in Indiana." at Indianapolis 500 every year from 1972 to 2014. His last performance in 2014 was one year after officially coming out by marring his long term partner year before in Washington soon as that state legalized SSM.

From JN's Wiki page...

"Nabors also owned a home and spent some summers in Whitefish, Montana during the 1990s. On January 15, 2013, Nabors married his partner of 38 years, Stan Cadwallader, at the Fairmont Olympic Hotel in Seattle, Washington, a month after same-sex marriage became legal in Washington. They had met in the 1970s, when Cadwallader was a fireman in Honolulu, and began dating in 1975. Although Nabors' homosexuality was not widely known before this, it was also not completely secret. For instance, Nabors brought his then-partner Cadwallader along to his Indy 500 performance in 1978."

Michael Douglas was certainly better than expected - he made Liberace effeminate without being a total stereotype. but he was physically wrong for the part. Someone like Paul Giamatti would have been a better fit.

Seems like Liberace loved to talk about himself. I had an ex like that. Constantly tooting his own horn. It was nauseating.

There were always rumors about Liberace, Nabors, et al., but no one seemed to care.

R143 - it was never a mystery to anyone but you would be surprised how simple many women, even in LA, in fashion are. Before I left the US I took my childhood friend out to the Americana at Brand for dinner and a Nordstrom shopping spree. She was loving the Lagerfeld lipgloss with his head embossed on the top and the sales lady said "yes he and his wife are so elegant". We were aghast.

Liberace didn't need to "come out", it would have been like Beverly Leslie revealing that deep secret to Karen.

By 1970's or so Liberace was one big ole flaming queen. We loved him, and no one by then who seriously thought about it imagined he was straight. But as we've said in this thread it really didn't matter.

Probably one huge issue would have been having denied being gay for so long, and having won defamation lawsuits against those who claimed he was, Liberace was in that closet whether he wanted to be by then or not.

We see same thing with so many other famous men (and not) of Liberace's generation. Dirk Brigade was constantaly being got at to come out. This even in his later years when it wouldn't have done him much harm professionally or personally. The man just wouldn't do it...

That's a good point r116, you can see in photos from just a few months before he died that Lynde was looking a little ill, but more bloated and prematurely aging than anything, which tracks with what was apparently undiagnosed heart disease.

Paul Lynde was quite ill the last year of his life with undisclosed (to public) cancer and heart disease (atherosclerotic coronary artery disease).

Don't know about his diet, exercise (or lack thereof), family history, etc.. But Paul Lynde was a heavy smoker and drinker. Both up the risks substantially for heart disease.

For the truly morbid..

And ghouls...

This post and previous speaks to post above about ME getting involved with deaths.

Because Paul Lynde died at home (his body not being discovered for several days) ME got involved and performed an autopsy. Despite Mr. Lynde being a known heavy drinker and smoker foul play had to be ruled out....

Lynde struggled with his weight all is life. If a watermelon diet kill someone it would ahve been him.

Liberace ultimately was entertaining and unthreatening. He had no political clout and certainly didn't seek it out. Like Lynde and many others of his generation he probably found "Pride", Stonewall, etc. offensive because it thereatened his persona and livelihood. Coming out would have forced people to think of him as a sexual object, which I suspect no one wanted to do.

r91 not just then. Look at Clay Aikens. His "claymates" would viciously defend him if anyone dares claim he was gay - even after the story about the navy seal he fucked - which I find Clay is a top more shocking.. Even after he officially came out - his fans refused to believe it.

Oh, we knew...

Struggling with weight is one thing, but it was the booze and ciggies that likely did Paul Lynde in, or at least helped things along.

By all accounts from friends like Nancy Walker and Kaye Ballard, Paul Lynde could put it away. His drug use likely didn't help matters either. There was also a history of heart disease in the Lynde family with at least his father known to have died because of it.

"Lynde expired at almost the same age as his father, who also died from a heart attack. The authors express surprise that Lynde didn't have a heart attack sooner, what with his transgressive lifestyle. Lynde was heavily into alcohol and also used drugs. He claimed to have quit these habits cold-turkey not long before his death, having been transformed by a personal event that he never revealed."

And the poppers, r153...

R150

Again think some of you are missing just what self-loathing (in this case homosexual) actually means in context.

There are and always have been homosexuals who detest everything about homosexuality and that goes for the community as well. No, you won't see them at Pride, supporting Stonewall, or anything else of that nature. You don't shout your personal deficiencies from house tops and so forth.

Who knows Liberace, Tony Perkins, Ed Koch and countless other such men both famous and not told themselves after having sex with man (or boy) to get to sleep at night . But far as topic of this thread was concerned he was a religious man, devoted to Catholic church and not gay.

R154 - what if he wasn't gay? I am led to believe that if he had been, given his fame and wealth, he would've ended up like Liberace or Freddie. I still wonder if Elton was as big a whore as he claims. The few pics of him with Freddie from the time show him staring longingly at and clinging to Freddie's chest who was being polite but clearly not interested. Maybe he was just scared and frustrated? Even with any gene....had he behaved as loose, he would've been infected.

What is "Congestion of the Liver"?

[quote]mainstream gay entertainment

RPDR is gay entertainment. Libby was a gay entertainer in mainstream entertainment.

R155 - or they may be men like an ex bottom of mine who was much like Liberace who was taught gay was evil and taboo and, because he was gay he sought out men, but because he also associated it with evil and taboo (as had been drilled into his mind) he found the WORST and most abusive partners. Alone at 76, he tells me I was the only one who treated him normally. I told him it was because he still has all the crap in his head his upbringing put into him and literally just seeing that I would kiss him, and hold him after sex was so new to him because he had always paid. Society can mess up a lot of people. He's better now, but it is sad to see what his life was like.

The power of gold tchotchkes and money. In the real world, a Liberace without money would get constantly blocked on Grindr.

R159

See link...

Basically blood congestion in liver which of which congestive heart disease is a cause. When your heart isn't pumping blood properly it causes all sorts of problems for various organs of body that rely upon circulatory system working as it should.

R160

You ain't said nothing but a word.....

[quote]Digital abs and ass slimming is kind of sad for somebody who was only in his early forties.

Actually, early forties is when everything starts to go to shit. At that point, maintaining the same kind of body you had when you were younger basically becomes a full-time job.

"I still wonder if Elton was as big a whore as he claims. "

I read Elton's autobiography, which was pretty entertaining. He said without going into too much detail that he liked voyeurism, that he'd meet hot young guys and get them to do things with each other rather than fucking them himself, and if he did a lot of that he was at much lower risk than a lot of gay men. He also said he was a virgin until his early 20s, so I assume he has some self-esteem or self-loathing issues that he didn't discuss in the book. Maybe he's not even aware of them.

I don't know if Liberace was genuinely self-loathing or just compartmentalized his life, so that he could both get some hot dick and be genuinely happy to have a homophobic fan base. I can't do those sort of mental gymnastics myself, but plenty of other people can, and it doesn't' seem to make them unhappy or conflicted.

I recently read the Steven Gaines bio of Halston, and he really defined self-loathing. He never had a true partner or even a boyfriend: He had long-term fuckbuddies he saw a couple of times a week, and otherwise, it was just call boys. His only 'relationship' was with the violently unstable Victor Hugo. When the Warhol diaries came out, Halston was destroyed by having his private life--especially the relationship with Victor--revealed to the world. He was already sick with AIDS then, and the publication of the diaries sent him into a health spiral he never recovered from.

All this talk about Paul Lynde. I realize he's beloved on DL, but did anyone (besides me) ever just not like him? He always seemed so mean and angry to me, never funny. Same with Don Rickles.

R186 I agree. Paul Lynde always appeared to be bitter. I never thought Don Rickles was funny, either.

Rickles was much liked and respected in the entertainment world. The insults were just his act. It wore thin after awhile but made him millions. He was a very happy person in real life, with very long marriage.

Even Lynde's friends could only take so much of him, esp. if he was drinking. Lynde wanted to be a bigger star--a leading man, which was something he could only achieve in dinner theater/summer stock. He was unsatisfied with being a game show guy and a supporting player. he failed to relaize that a little went a long way and that gave him more of a career than most people ever had.

In Jeff Snyder's "my life as a Hollywood whore" autobiography, he describes a night he was hired to spend with some unnamed rock star who is almost certainly Elton John. No sex ended up happening.

This talk about Elton John makes me think of the line in Rocketman where he tells his mother he's fucked everything that moved. More gilding the lily by John? He did produce his own autobiographical picture.

I think Sister Dominique saw more action than Elton John.

Elton John broke up a couple in Atlanta. But he put the one he didn't turn into his whore on his AIDS charity board.

Then, John was used by a horrible opportunist. But he got a house and a Mercedes, etc., etc. for his troubles.

These young guys were not the type to be whores, but Elton had the kind of money that makes professionals professionals.

I want Elton as my John.

Of all the words to describe Lynde's stature on DL, r166, I don't think beloved would be one of them.

If Paul Lynde came to the Datalounge, we'd greet him with the "GOOBLE GOBBLE" chant!

But it's not like we treat each other well, so of course he wouldn't be beloved.

It says "crunchy."

R99=frau CUNT

Paul Lynde's good buddy and life long pal Kaye Ballard has said in interviews how often sad and angry the man was about is professional life. Yes, Paul Lynde had success on television sitcoms and game show, also in musical theater, but he really wanted to do drama.

Sadly the suits for both television and screen productions always just said "no", and PL was typecast into the roles that he did manage to get. Of course much of this (according to Kaye Ballard) was fact PL was gay, and everyone in Hollywood knew it.

Look at all those 1970's television dramas from crime/LE/PI shows to where everyone from fresh new faces to veteran studio system actors landed co-star or "special guest" roles. None came PL's way....

To be fair Paul Lynde was given his own show, the short lived "Paul Lynde Show", but it bombed and was cancelled after just one season.

Thing about Paul Lynde (and thus maybe studios were correct) is he really only had that one schtick. The bitchy bottom driving instructor on Bewitched became "Uncle Arthur" the warlock, but still was a bitchy bottom. People loved PL on Hollywood Squares, but again he was doing the same sort of thing...

Speaking of Paul Lynde show, WEHT the gorgeous blonde actor (and Staten Island, NY) native John Calvin who played "Howie" on show.

He had some other roles in 1980's and 1990's shows but dropped out of sight by 1995 or so.

Entire cast (and likely crew) of I Dream of Jeannie knew Hayden Rorke was "unashamedly gay" as Barbra Eden would say later in interviews.

Mr. Rorke lived with his life partner actor and producer Justus Addiss until the latter died in 1979. The couple gave parties and otherwise lived their lives openly and didn't give a rat's ass what people thought.

Hayden Rorke did a shit ton of acting work in films and television, so wonder just how much this "gays had to be in closet" for Hollywood really worked. True he never had leading man roles, so I'll give quarter on that score. But the man worked steadily never the less.

Rorke was a foreign spy, r180.

R175

Then and still now gays and even straights have a soft spot for angry bitchy bottom queens. Even if they also are nasty drunks and so forth.

PL had a good circle of friends. Their devotion to the man is how is body came to be discovered in first place. Had no one bothered or local LE left to their own devices PL's death might not have been discovered until several weeks afterwards instead of several days.

Know or have known several grand old stately queens like PL. They were established and successful in their professional lives and thus rather well off. Could be rather kind and generous with friends, co-workers, staff, etc.... Gave wonderful parties! But when they got loaded on the sauce, it was clear the decks time.

There are more than a few stories of Paul Lynde out at some gay bar totally loaded and being violently nasty and abusive. Much so you wonder why no one punched his lights out....

When I was at Northwestern, people often talked about the " Paul Lynde Burger King incident". It seems to be forgotten now, but it was a huge scandal at the time.

R183 sounds like you are telling us he could have been the original DLer.

[quote]Why was he at Burger King?

Because every Queen needs a King.

R185 He heard the King had a Whopper and he wanted to wrap his mouth around that meat.

He does sound like the original DLer.

Things like this are why people who knew him loved Paul Lynde..

Like many gays of a certain age and time the man was an excellent cook and generous host.

We're losing that today in gay community it seems. But time was almost everyone knew someone who was a great cook and was always having people over to his place for drinks and or meal.

That tittle-tattle in R183 that Paul Lynde was having or just had sex with someone when he died has been debunked many times over.

PL's friends when first arrived to find out why he hadn't shown up for a party nor work for a few days found the house locked up tight. They called local LE who told them there wasn't anything they could do until PL had been reported missing for "X" amount of time (IIRC). The friends took it upon themselves to break into PL's house, and found him dead as in R147.

When LE did arrive (after friends broke in and called 911) PL's house was still locked up tight from the inside, aside from where friends broke in obviously. PL was dressed with his hair combed without a trace of anything resembling a sexual or whatever encounter having occurred recently. The house was in perfect order, so unless PL had a trick over night before, cleaned everything up, went to bed and got up next morning... no one was there when he died.

PL arm and hand was out stretched towards panic button for alarm system. Clearly he was dressing to leave for work when began to feel unwell. Instead of calling 911 or his doctor at once, he did what many do who are having a major coronary event; sat down thinking things would pass. Then it hit and he wasn't able to summon aide before dying.

You can buy copies of PL's autopsy report and death certificate from links at R148 and R149. The autopsy report indicate (IIRC) while there were traces of "popper" in PL's system use could have occurred many days prior.

Does anybody know if Liberace ever dabbled in black cock?

No, Dick Sargent was the Hollywood gay with BBC thing going.....

People always assumed Alice Ghostley mirrored her good friend Paul Lynde. Actually it was other way round....

Can you imagine being out at a bar or party Paul Lynde, Alice Ghostely, Nancy Walker and Kaye Ballard....

Guys like Liberace couldn't come out after they sued people and publications for defamation. The public would be like "oh, uh, we hate him now not because he's gay, but because he lied! No, the gay thing has nothing to do with it! We swear, we would be perfectly fine with the gay thing! It's the lying that is so bad!".

That article at R188 reads like the Hello! Magazine feature on Patsy Stone.

[quote]All this talk about Paul Lynde. I realize he's beloved on DL

He's not really beloved or even liked, that's been covered already by others in this thread. For a lot of us he was always on TV when we were kids, he had a very kid-friendly career, not just Hollywood Squares and Donny & Marie specials, but all the variety shows, that Halloween special, there was a Christmas special too, and he guest starred in reruns we saw all the time after school like Bewitched, Munsters, Beverly Hillbillies, things like that.

Personally, he was not only the first celebrity I could recognize from show to show when I was really young, he was the first celebrity I saw crash and burn in real time. He was on TV constantly, then he started making the news for being a drunken asshole, then he went from being everywhere in the 1970s up until about Spring of 1979, then he basically disappeared off the face of the earth. A year and a half later, he was dead. It went really quickly.

When I got here 20 years ago or so there were people who loved him for anecdotally saying he was going to fuck a noisy baby on an airplane to get it to shut up, things like that, but I don't think even then he was really beloved.

MARIE! at R188 ...

[quote]For slightly over a year, Paul has lived in a magnificent French Regency house in Beverly Hills. The house, decorated by an interior designer, with plenty of assists from Paul, is a fluid bending of sumptuous eighteenth-century antiques and sparsely elegant modern pieces. No effort has been spared to create an inviting environment. As Paul prepares for dinner guests this chilly day, fires blaze in all the marble fireplaces, bathing every room in a golden light. Freshly cut flowers from Paul's formal gardens, artfully arranged in streamlined Lucite and silver vases, vie with objets d'art and paintings.

[quote]artfully arranged in streamlined Lucite and silver vases

The only way that sentence could be more 1970s was if it was wearing platform shoes.

Paul Lynde was fabulous!

Miss Girl is giving you realness 1970's bougie gay.

You bitches can't handle it!

Architectural Digest - May 1981 An Actor's Aspirations Realized - At Home with Paul Lynde

"Today, Mr. Lynde's Beverly Hills house, with interiors designed by Reginald Adams, has a certain grandeur to it, but, unlike a hotel lobby, it is warm and intimate and full of charm. When the house was purchased, however, it was far from grand. Except for a fourteen -foot ceiling, there was little to its credit. The house required almost two years of remodeling. Sliding glass doors were replaced with gently arched French ones; walls came down, and two rooms became one; maids' quarters were turned into a sauna; a porch was enclosed; new floors were laid, and proportions changed. "We created archways and skylights and gave it architectural character, a feeling of tradition," says the designer.

Finished, the house was ready for Mr. Lynde's collection of antiques, crystal chandeliers and paintings. "When Paul and I talked, he told me he wanted something that was not the usual sort of design," says Mr. Adams. "He's very traditional, but he's also dynamic and open, and I wanted to give him a house of energy. He also hoped there were things we could keep. We agreed on everything but the grand piano. However, we felt that one style would be boring."

Mr. Adams designed a smooth gently curving banquette and then plumped it with pillows. He styled tables in the Art Déco manner, "to give the rooms sophistication." He combined a variety of scales to enliven the space. The living room, for example is formal, but not rigid, and the décor is appropriate to the contents. The materials are raw silk and lacquer; there are some sconces with clusters of crystal, French clocks, a painted Italian chest and a Chinese screen. Casting the room in a hazy kind of brilliance are strategically placed ceiling lights. "A room is like a stage," says Mr. Lynde. "If you see it without lighting, it can be the coldest place in the world." For the same reason, a fire burns in the fireplace year round, and white flowers from the garden are always on view - calla lilies or azaleas or roses. "

He was really oddly unattractive. Face is off somehow, too skinny, too hairy. Sometimes photographed in "sexy" 70s clothes like Hugh Hefner, whom he resembled, he was still ugly. I wonder if being so physically repulsive to other gays made him so bitchy.

Paul Lynde's former home was sold by Moby back in 2016

R200

Scroll down to see Paul Lynde in that ultimate sexy look of 1970's the caftan!

Scroll down that People article in R200 to see Stan Finesmith who was Paul Lynde’s “suite mate” and “chauffeur-bodyguard.”

He's hot as fuck......

Stan Finesmith was indeed hawt in the photo. First I'd heard of him.

Re: Finesmith, apparently Paul had a type. (It was everyone's type.)

R170 - it has been said by those in the music industry that Elton was always frustrated and longed to be like Mercury. He probably did "gild the lilly" in that respect by claiming how many partners he's had, by forcing himself to marry and even going as far as saying he enjoyed having sex with a woman, and bringing out his movie right after "Bohemian Rhapsody". However, he is a prolific but femme pop star and will never be a hard-core "devil may care" rockstar like Mercury. He just isn't that edgy. Prolific and talented and lived a long, amazing career....yes. Iconic rocker, no so much.

So Bing Davidson was the guy who fell through Paul's window.

Until he got sober and stopped using drugs (1980), Paul Lynde was known not just as a lush, but one nasty drunk. He would turn on his friends or anyone else within range. Sort of like a real life Joanne from Company, only without the great song.

Paul Lynde was given many chances, and people looked the other way after a series of mishaps. James “Bing” Davidson, accidentally fell to his death from the window of their hotel room in San Francisco’s Sir Francis Drake Hotel. Making racist remarks and gestures to African-American NU professor James Pitts.

But the final bit was in 1978, when Paul Lynde’s was arrested for public intoxication outside of The Sun Tavern, a gay bar in Salt Lake City. Once that got out his career suffered a major set back if not was over. Donny and Marie show cancelled PL's guest appearances, and other acting jobs became more difficult to land. To be fair it would be hard to say if it was now being known officially as gay (thanks to that incident outside gay bar), his drinking and drugs, and or just PL being difficult to work with that caused his career to shut down.

Obviously events of 1978 kicked PL in seat of pants and he got religion so to speak. Sobered up, stopped drugs, and was trying to make ammends in Hollywood/entertainment community.

I'm glad he got sober after being such an asshole for so long.

I can identify.

Jim Nabors and friends.

As for his sexuality Jim Nabors was rather casual and open with co-workers in entertainment business.

"Nabors: “I haven’t ever made a public spectacle of it. Well, I’ve known since I was a child, so, come on. It’s not that kind of a thing. I’ve never made a huge secret of it at all.”

i remember in the 70s when I lived in Provincetown in the summer, walking into the gay disco the Back Room and seeing a visibly drunk Lynde throwing a young gay fully dressed guy into the swimming pool.

[quote]We loved him

No I didn't. He was creepy as fuck.

Anyone have Rip Taylor?

Lynde had numerous arrests to his credit----I remember hearing about one in Toledo. Ironic, given that his father had been a sheriff and ran the local jail.

Lynde, from an college photo above, was a fatty in college. He always had that saggy former fatty look.

Lynde apparently told people he had been sick as a kid and his mother practically force fed him while he was bedridden. I never believed that story, I think he was just a chubby kid. He's still kind of chubby in Bye Bye Birdie.

Lynde was 37 years old when he played the father of a teenager in "Bye Bye Birdie", he seemed to be pushing fifty.

They actually cast him as a father?

R179 That sitcom shows why PL's career stagnated.

It ridiculous that he is playing a straight, married man when he is the queeniest queen who ever queened.

People looked so much older back then.

R230

Probably had lot to do with so many smoked like chimneys and drank like fish.

Not always r221. Even people who didn't smoke or drink looked older back then.

Paul Lynde's ghost hijacked this thread.

PL was great as Templeton the rat on Charlotte's Web...

I have a Paul Lynde story. This was related to me by someone who knew his agent. Paul was on a plane in first class and a notorious drinker. He had had a few and I guess there was this little girl running up and down the aisles. Apparently, it annoyed the fuck out of Paul so when she ran by he grabbed her arm and stood up and said "Whose child is this?" a woman meekly raised her hand and he dragged her down to the mother and said "Keep her in her seat before I fuck her," and went back to First class and closed the curtain.

R225 What a creep / borderline perve.

R225, that story has been repeated on DL for years (see R195) from different sources, so it’s likely true.

The story I heard is that he said "If you don't shut up that child, I'm going to fuck it!"

I heard he said "Shut up Benay, I need the softness!"

The house Lynde died in was on Palm Avenue, across the street from the Marilyn Monroe /Joe DiMaggio honeymoon house, just a few houses down from Santa Monica Blvd. It was torn down and a McMansion put up.

R203, "Sweet mate" would be more appropriate.

A rare Paul Lynde appearance on The Tonight Show in 1976.

A Paul Lynde thread for further postings. He really does deserve his own thread.

Consider dragging some of your great posts about Paul on over:

Someone already beat you to it R233

The interview at R232 just emphasizes how canned today's talk shows are where the host asked a question that triggers a "spontaneous" story where it is clear both the question and story were planned beforehand.

r235, this has always been the case. Recently Dax Shepard mentioned how he was so high on his appearance on Conan O'Brian he was almost missing the cues set up by Conan which were pre-planned. The only time these shows get interesting is when they go off script. Like when Bobcat Goldwait almost sets the Late Show set on fire. Or when Lily Tomlin walks off stage after a sexist remark of Chad Everett (which apparently was a cue for him to recite a poem about the wife he says he owns!).

For anyone pining for the days when gay men were good cooks:

I hope he recycled all of those cans, r237!

I bet Paul had lots of fabulous recipes that called for cans of Campbell's soups. And shrimp in a tin.

Nestle Quik chocolate mixed with Carnation condensed milk makes a delicious impromptu mousse. Add a sprig of parsley for a touch of elegance.

Beyond his limitations as a serious leading man, Lynde failed to realize that a little of him went a long way which is probably why his sitcoms failed or didn't sell. He was not unlike his contemporary (and fellow Ohioan) Tim Conway in that way. Conway had multiple failed series and did best as a sketch comedian (which was how he got his start on local tv in Cleveland) and supporting roles. Conway, at least had a sense of humor about it---his vanity license plate was "13 WKS" for how long his tv shows lasted.

I hated Tim Conway. And I could never understand how the cast of The Carol Burnett Show would let him go on and on. They seemed to think he was a comedy genius, but he bored me most of the time.

When Johnny Weir burst onto the senior figure skating scene, the fraus were in love with him and would get highly upset on some of the frautastic figure skating boards whenever someone would suggest that he was gay...”It’s no one’s business”, was the justification.

But they’d post multi page posts about the love life of Kwan, Witt, Hamill, Fleming, and of course Uber heterosexual Michael Weiss. And any of the pairs skaters that were married or dating. It was okay to discuss that shit.

R243

Leave the chubby, aging fraus their fantasies. What else do they have to bring a smidgen of joy in their desolate world? An econo-box of Oreo's and marathon streaming of Grey's Anatomy?

R242 Truth! - Elder guy here, so I know of Conway from his show biz inception. How that man had a career will always be a mystery to me. I never found him funny. What was Carol Burnett thinking all those years? Harvey Korman on the other hand, was a scream!

Harvey Korman was gay, right? I mean, it's just not possible for a straight man to camp it up like that!

Although he married late at 55, I never doubted Harvey Korman being gay. He pinged from Earth to Saturn and back. He and his wife, had two kids, and stayed with her until his death in 2008 at the age of 81. I loved this work.

Prior to the Burnett show, Harvey had been a regular on The Danny Kaye Show.

Just sayin' . . .

R243 and R244 - loads of older and middle aged women are Queen fans and love Freddie and found him super sexy. They even post pictures with him and his partners on fan pages. I think the concept that being a gay celebrity will put off women is exaggerated. Like anyone else, a beautiful, talented person will be loved and, obviously, most humans live in reality so a total stranger's love life doesn't matter. Of course, these days attitudes have changed, but many gay men who are famous and nice looking and open still draw swarms of female fans. Hell, my mom and her friends still talk about George Michael and how cute he was and what happened with his lover...not like they suddenly can't see or hear because he came out as gay. They don't care.

Korman turned up on lots of sitcoms usually in buffoonish parts. Danny Kaye was a much hated, total PITA to work with, so I wouldn't read much into that. He would have been semi-oblivious to everyone connected with the show.

"I think the concept that being a gay celebrity will put off women is exaggerated. "

So do I, I actually think that straight men are more likely to turn off an out gay celebrity than straight women. Some straight women will totally turn off someone who comes out, others can think of them as their imaginary gay BFF or lust after them, whatever. Some straight men don't care, others are afraid that if they show any sign of liking a gay man then their peers will think they're gay, so they'd abandon an entertainer they loved when he was in a closet.

But as I always say, what really matters about entertainers coming out isn't so much what the pubic genuinely thinks, it's what entertainment industry suits think the public will think. And since they're largely straight men who think the public are idiots, they assume that the public is more homophobic than they are.

Yeah, it's not the straight women, it's the straight men. If an openly gay actor plays one of their heroes, it messes up their little self-insertion (pun very much intended) fantasies when watching films.

[quote] Although he married late at 55, I never doubted Harvey Korman being gay. He pinged from Earth to Saturn and back. He and his wife, had two kids, and stayed with her until his death in 2008 at the age of 81. I loved this work.

Harvey Korman might have been gay, but he married his first wife in 1960 in his early 30s. They split in 1977 and five years later, he married again and stayed with his second wife for the rest of his life. He fathered two children in each marriage.

In one of her numerous memoirs, Carol Burnett wrote of "firing" Korman after he was incredibly rude to two of the show's guest stars, who she would not name but they were later revealed to be Petula Clark and Tim Conway.

Burnett has lots of problems with Korman's behavior. He was quite the diva.

Matt Damon was way too old, so was Michael Douglas. Matt would have been the right age to portray Liberace and they could have gotten another younger actor to portray the boy toy Scott. And I couldn't stand the way they ended that movie; stupid.

Actually, that "Paul Lynde Stew" posted at R237 is good. When I was little, a neighbor lady (good cook) made that stew and I remember it being delicious.

R257

Did she include Paul's secret ingredient... Wild Turkey?

[quote]When I was little, a neighbor lady (good cook) made that stew and I remember it being delicious.

I always care about the tastes of young children.

[quote] I always care about the taste of young children.

Fixed it for you.