Wasn't "The Young & The Restless" the all-time greatest soap opera?

The description on the youtube video is extemely insightful and discerning!

"...notice how natural Brenda's acting is here compared to a few years later, where producers apparently forced her to play the character more over the top."

Jill calling Kay 'over the hill' in 1984 and yet Jeanne lived until 2013.

Kay represented all the women who feared losing their husbands to younger women (Jill) on Y&R

On B&B, those roles were played by Stephanie and Brooke.

Not the all time greatest, but like all soaps it had its great moments. The scene linked in the OP being a clip from one of the best storylines in the history of the genre. I still get pissed at how it was destroyed by making them mother and daughter.

I mostly hated it, but watched it if I was home at 12:30 and had nothing else to do. I could not stand the artificial-sounding dialogue. No one talks IRL the way those characters talked. (I started watching in 1989 or '90, btw, with Bill and Kay and Jack Smith at the helm.)

There are two periods when I found it watchable. One was when LML took over, allowing characters to talk like actual human beings. The other is now, even though it is virtually suspenseless, because I just love Mark Grossman. Sharon Case is so lucky.

No it was not.

Brendad was the worst actress, ever.

The child playing Harrison is cute enough, and he resembles Tara enough, but he has to be the worst kid actor I've ever seen.

Yes it was, from 73-77, then it started going rapidly downhill as the younger stars left for stardom. None of them really achieved it.

I want to see the lezzys on more often!!!!!

It was too dark and slow, but that was very calming and soothing to me. When I think of those years on Y&R, I remember the summers of my teen years, getting up late and grazing in the kitchen, with Y&R on the TV, its wonderful music in the background.

By the time Marland's vibrant ATWT came on, I'd had my coffee and was ready for something more intense.

[quote]Brendad was the worst actress, ever.

She's crazy as a loon, but she wasn't the worst. Not by a long shot.

Before Y&R, it was all garish studio light, fugly people and sitting in kitchens having coffee. Or hospitals.

When it was good, it was great. My favorite years were the early to late 90s. The show was so good back then, there was even a primetime episode.

The show started sucking in the 2000s, but both Adam arcs (with Michael Muhney and Justin Hartley) briefly brought Y&R back to life.

I've been teleworking from home since March of last year and haven't watched a single episode of Y&R. This os coming from a guy who taped every episode in high school and watched as soon as he came home from school.

PS: I only know Jess Walton as Jill, and only came to know "Brendad Ickson" when she became a meme in the mid-00s. I've seen some clips of when she was on the show and she was horrible. I can't believe there are people who prefer her campy version over the tough as nail bitch played by JW.

Because Brenda's Jill wasn't always the campy version. The clips on YouTube are fun, but you didn't see Brenda before that all happened. Her Jill was great and a fully realized three dimensional character with so many layers. I believe Brenda and Jeanne Cooper, who backed her up, that Brenda got caught in the middle of some weird battle about how to play Jill. Plus Brenda was a little crazy too which didn't help things.

Jess Walton was attack dog Jill. It's her role and she's played it forever, but Brenda, before the character went camp, was so good.

I prefer “The Old and the Content Just to Sit a Spell.”

JESS WALTON hisses and screeches like an old furnace. She kissed Bell's ass from day one.

Has anyone checked in on Dumb Dylan yet? His love Mark Grossman didn’t get an Emmy Nomination. Dumb Dylan must be beyond distraught! How could this happen?????

It was never the all time greatest soap.

It had something special with the Jill/Kay feud. And some scenes in the 70s and 80s played like a delicious, frothy mix of madcap old Hollywood, crossed with 80s camp and glamour a la Aaron Spelling.

But that was maybe 10 percent of the show. So many other characters and stories were the cure for insomnia. It's lived so long because it was on at lunchtime, and that's the reality. It's been deadly dull since Bell's passing.

Y&R is watched by old ladies and nursing home residents.

yeap

It had a lousy time slot - 12pm EST - when it premiered and it wasn't seen in a lot of the US, because local stations aired the news. It got hot with Chris/Snapper/Sally and Leslie/Brad/Lorie and it started sweeping fan mag polls and other parts of the country wanted to add it. Jill/Phillip/Kay/Brock helped cement its early popularity. It was addictive -great sets, wardrobe, lighting and strong acting from soap newbies. Bell really handled it with care for the first couple of years.

It changed EVERY other soap, they all start copying parts of it. So yeah it deserves credit for that.

It made me rich and now I can buy all the Gelson's potato salad I want!

Bill Bell stolded all of Brendad’s monie and she wants it back!!!!

I think Brenda was very good in OP’s clip. That’s the most natural I’ve seen her be in forever.

Contrast that with this.

Why hasn’t Brendad worked in 34 years?

The great Jeanne Cooper.

R15, I read an interview with Jeanne Cooper in a soap opera magazine some years back in which she said Brenda Dickson was having problems remembering her lines and she had to prompt her sometimes.

And I think Cooper also basically said that Jess Walton became the definitive Jill.

Brendad is a complete nutjob. Always has been, always will be. And a terrible actress to boot.

Cooper was a Bell spy on set from day one. The younger actors flocked to her because she acted the demented den mother.

Jess Walton was a great Jill, at least in the first decade or so after she took over. But trying to maintain the feud ended up zapping both characters.

Brenda was fun in a bitchier, shallow way, very "shade queen" or drag style. But there was no depth to the character. Jess may not have been as fun, but she made Jill a person and not just a symbol.

It did have the classiest theme song.

Nine Olympic judges can’t be wrong!

Good news! One of the lezzys got nominated for an Emmy! Not for acting but for writing a song. Lezzys rule! #Cait

Mamie!

I preferred Dickson over Walton, but I completely lost whatever interest I had in their relationship when they “became” biological mother and daughter. I absolutely hated that rewriting of history, much like Phillip III coming back from the dead and revealing he’s gay. Just awful writing.

There was a scene before "Campy Jill" between Brenda and Cooper where Katherine offers Jill a million dollars for Phillip. It got Y&R, Emmy noms for best show and writing in 1976. You probably have to view that scene at the Paley Center. It was truly one of the most riveting performances that I had ever seen in daytime. Brenda put her foot in that scene. If they had supporting categories, she would have, no doubt, been nominated. And in those days Y&R was not getting nominated in acting categories.

Jess Walton has played the character longer and it's her role, but Brenda did a great job.

R25: That's "natural"? Looking like Little Bo Peep goes to Club Med?

Y&R became famous because it was considered more "adult", and more risque than any previous soaps. All soaps hire people for their looks, but Y&R took it to a whole new level. Men like William Espy, Tom Hallick, Tom Ligon, David Hasselhoff, etc were always in states of undress, or in bed. What was suggested in previous soaps became reality on Y&R.

It's ironic that the soap that was seen as so ground-breaking later was seen as so old-fashioned.

Brenda Dickson ruined Y&R!

Kay!

R38: They only changed with the times until the times started changing faster than they could keep up with them.

I started watching after Jess took over the role, but Brenda had some good moments, the ones I’ve seen on YouTube, when she underplayed Jill. The moments where Brenda tries to be a bitch and diva are laughably campy and bad. Jess brought a certain rage and intensity to the role and to scenes that were dramatic and funny and not at all campy. From what I recall, it took a few years into the 90s to show Jills vulnerability and Jess did well with those too. Y and R did well with the recasts in the late 80s.

I've hung out with Brendad Ickson a few times in LA, and she's certifiably crazy - legit mental illnesses. That aside, she's very kind and interesting, and that drama she fronts on social media is just her insecurities and mental illness(es) manifesting. She's exhausting, but she's not a bad person.

Brendad made Y&R in the 80's. That storyline with Jill sleeping with Jack and getting pregnant was must-see-tv for haus fraus... and they dragged it on for 2+years. After that, she stole Jabot from the Abbots, and had that custody battle over little Philip, both which kept viewers, but weren't nearly as good as the Jack-Jill-John triangle. The Nina selling her baby storyline with Rose Deville was also fun, but the other storylines going on in the 1980's were ridiculous: Robert Tyrone dressing as a white man and marrying Alana, the mafioso's daughter, to bust her father; Ashley got an abortion; Tracey developed an eating disorder and fucked the hot pool boy; Lauren was kidnapped by her masseur; most all of Genoa City performed at the Danny Romalatti abstinence concert; and fucking Cricket showed up to ruin the whole show.

It had some decent storylines in the 1990s (e.g., the first Sheila/Lauren go-round), but it pales in comparison to its heyday. Also, with the advent of cable television, fewer and fewer fraus tune in because they have a billion other choices.

In what’s supposed to be a thread about the show, all you can talk about is ME!!

Well, hello!

The Young and the Restless was number one in the ratings for 32 years. It was only knocked out of the number one slot by The Bold and The Beautiful - also created by the Bells. There was a time it got better ratings than most primetime shows now.

Vee didn’t allow Mark Grossman to get an Emmy nomination. Vee is in the biz you know.

R38, yes, Y&R became known for having more sex than the other daytime dramas.

But it also became known for its excellent direction and won the directing category at the Emmys several times. This lead to other shows trying to match Y&R's directing style.

Y&R has certainly had its moments of greatness, but my favorite moments are ones hardly anybody remembers. I liked the balance of Jill being scheming yet decent when Deborah Adair played her, and when Brenda first came back, it was jarring because all of a sudden she was movie star glamorous rather than real. I hadn't watched it when Brenda first played her, but seeing some old episodes I am amazed in the difference in her performances just three and a half years in between. I've been watching old "Doctors" episodes and there was the same dynamic with Jill and her mother Liz in the 1970's that there was between Nola and Virginia Dancy. Only later did Nola really become a vixen, while with Jill, there were hints of it that didn't explode until late 1983.

Other soap operas integrated their casts but y&r never seemed to do that. Victor and the Abbotts initially had little to do with each other, and the Fosters, Brooks and Williams families outside of Chris and Snapper and Peggy and Paul's brother Steve didn't even seem to know each other. I don't recall one scene where Liz and Mary crossed paths (even at Victor and Nikki's wedding), and the Victor and Jack feud didn't happen until much later.

There were short-term or minor characters I really enjoyed, as well as some potentially major characters who never got the front burner status they deserved. Eve Howard was a fun character when trying to poison Victor, but that's a dead end situation. When they brought her back in the '90s, they completely changed her past, something the show does a lot with older characters who haven't been on in a while. Making Jill adopted still is the most stupid decision ever especially since she hardly has anything to do with her newfound sister.

Dina Abbott came on with great fanfare but after a year or two of story lost her spark due to lack of writer's interest (as well as them bringing on Susan Seaforth Hayes who also ended up being underused), and much later Judith Chapman as Gloria, given some great front burner material, but now hardly on and made out to be a comical buffoon. Dina's return struck gold, and I hope this could be Marla Adams' Emmy year.

Dina's return was a rip off of Alexis' return on Dynasty down to the disappearance, though Dina took off, while Alexis got exiled. And it did fall flat. Marla played - was given - a better character in the last two years than she was in her original run. The elderly Dina, before she lost her memory, was a bit mischievous... I remember when Ashley was evidently hot for that tech geek and Dina was howling with laughter at her. The character, originally, could have a been a strong villainess, along the complex lines of that scene chewer on ATWT who was so entertaining. Liz somebody or other, but she was good. Original recipe Dina was kind of a wimp.

That is one of the things I loved about old Y&R. When characters who had been on the show at the same time together for years, would finally "meet". It was always fun and little bit jarring because you would think, 'hey they don't know each other' and it was so different from other soap town where everyone knew everyone else.

A lot of female soap characters during the early-mid 80's were influenced by Alexis in one way or another. Myrna Clegg, Alexandra Spaulding, Lucinda Walsh, Estelle Kendall, the return of Iris Cory, Stephanie Forrester, to name some. Even established characters like Rae Woodard and Stephanie Wyatt had a bit of Alexis type ruthlessness thrust further upon them. Linda Anderson on "Days" briefly had been like that prior to Alexis's arrival, and Tracy Quartermaine and Vanessa Chamberlain certainly had that potential before her as well.

When I think of Dina in the early days, she reminds me a lot of the character of Phyllis from "Follies". I wouldn't have liked a camp version of her character, although Marla was pretty campy as Myrna Clegg in between Carolyn Jones and Marj Dusay. But I think that's because Myrna was basically a campy character.

This was the TV guide ad promoting the arrival of Estelle Kendall.

For some reason I always remember Carolyn Jones as Myrna delivering the line: Trey, you simple minded bastard.

I lost so much adolescent sperm over Tom Ligon.

R53 I remember her marching up the capitol steps wearing wearing a very campy fur coat and hat, and being ignored by a security, which led her to sweep everything on his desk off.

Marj had a very campy line, looking at her daughter's wedding dress and saying it looks like something out of "The Addams Family". Of course, her final line, "This will not just be a divorce. This is war. Choose sides!" was a delightful bit for Marj, but it didn't give any final for the story except the metaphor that in Washington politics, nothing is ever concluded.

There were rumors at one point that Marj would take over the role of Phyllis's mother after "Guiding Light" was canceled, but that was just someone's fan-tasy.

The last 20 or so years for almost all soaps has not been great. All economics and ratings aside, all the shows became timid and reticent in their storytelling. With Y&R, it got to be an old enough show that it fell into a trap that some of the older NYC shows fell into a decade or so earlier - repeating stories. How many times can Victor and Nikki be married? Fans make it a weird spot because they want the same BUT they also want something different. And the ratings are so small these days the shows are afraid of changing anything. Even the younger characters are just too bland to have an actual POV or persona.

[quote] A lot of female soap characters during the early-mid 80's were influenced by Alexis in one way or another. Myrna Clegg, Alexandra Spaulding, Lucinda Walsh, Estelle Kendall, the return of Iris Cory, Stephanie Forrester, to name some.

It was Beverlee McKinsey, the first Iris Cory, who inspired Alexis Carrington. The Shapiros borrowed the last name of Carrington from Iris.

Yawn & Rested is sooooooooo boring. Nothing ever happens.

Here's Dougie D slipping his D to some pretty young twink.

(see around 2 hr24 minute mark for the 80s glam gay.

Douggie used to wear the tight jeans. You could see the outline of his cock.

r60 Doug was kind of a lunk head. His wife is very controlling.

You all have to watch Sharon Case’s interview with Alan Sarapa. He’s so fucking ugly and dorky and you can barely understand him. Its laughable and cringeworthy at the same time. Nellie Bottom Branco produced it. It’s a trainwreck. Poor Sharon. Having to put up with those idiots. Stay off the camera Alan. It does you no favors.

I recognized Adam Storke as the actor opposite Doug Davidson in the I’ll Take Manhattan clip above. I haven’t seen him in ages. Typical that their exchange ended with a hug rather than a kiss. So 80s!

I am really tired of and bored with the Adam vs. Billy storylines. The only way it might be interesting is if Chelsea works with Billy against Adam, and if she also drives a wedge between Billy and Lily. I hope the show keeps Imani around. I wouldn't mind seeing her paired with Nate and clash with Amanda. Happy that they have a new set for Billy and Lily. I wish the show would redesign Victoria's tired office and the coffee house set. I can do without Elena, Mariah, and Tessa. Keep Imani and let all three of them go. The show is missing a young, scheming male.

I find it ironic that Bill Spencer Jr. who just visited Genoa City and looks like the late Brad Carlton has a late father who looks like Lauren's late father.

[quote]You all have to watch Sharon Case’s interview

Sharon Case look amazing. If young cock makes your skin glow like that, give me some.

Alan Sarapa looks amazing! NOT. lololololololololololol

[quote]R59 Here's Dougie D slipping his D to some pretty young twink.

That’s Adam Storke, who played Mery’s boy toy in “Death Becomes Her.” He’s also in “Mystic Pizza.”

[quote]That’s Adam Storke, who played Mery’s boy toy in “Death Becomes Her.” He’s also in “Mystic Pizza.”

And who got his start on Search for Tomorrow opposite Jane Krakowski.

Yes, Y&R was the best and most expensive-looking soap. I started watching Y&R one summer when I was in 6th or 7th grade.

I wasn't astute about production values back then, but I noticed that, if you flipped the channels, the other soaps looked so harshly lit and flat.

I listened to "Not Young, Still Restless" - audiobook. Jeanne Cooper (Kay Chancellor) autobiography. She explained why Y&R went downhill. Plus, she read the book herself in her cigarette / whiskey voice.

What’s Jeanne’s theory as to why the show’s gone downhill?

Nah. DARK SHADOWS!! The only one I watched beginning to end.

[quote]That’s Adam Storke, who played Meryl’s boy toy in “Death Becomes Her.” He’s also in “Mystic Pizza.”

[quote]And who got his start on Search for Tomorrow opposite Jane Krakowski.

He did a pilot called PREY with someone occasionally discussed here. It did not turn into a series.

[quote]Wasn't "The Young & The Restless" the all-time greatest soap opera?

No.

R72 when that bastard Bill Bell fired me.

R74 PREY also featured Roger Howarth, who's been on a few soaps.

[quote] What’s Jeanne’s theory as to why the show’s gone downhill?

R72, it's been a long time since I read her book, but here's what I remember:

1. Revolving door of writers who didn't know and who didn't take advantage of existing story lines between characters.

2. Not spending as much money on sets (e.g., house interiors).

Cooper also made it clear that once Melody (Nicki) got married to a Y&R bigwig, a lot of time was spent lighting Melody to look her best on camera.

[quote]R78 Cooper also made it clear that once Melody (Nicki)...

Jeez... that sweater.

Dumb Dylan thinks Y&R is the top notch best it has ever been right now! What else should we expect from an idiot who can’t get his theres, theirs, and they’res right?

Good thing there is Vee, who is in the biz, you know, and the #1 expert of everything ever made.

It's hard to go to a memorial service now, after spending so much time at them in the '80s and '90s. But I persevered today. I wasn't a big fan of Y&R during the Neil Winters years, but I did like Drucilla, and the only time I really felt like crying were during her scenes.

She fell off a cliff, right, when she died? So couldn't she just as easily have floated downstream for a few miles and return to GC after a however-many-year bout with amnesia. She could really shake some excitement into this moribund program.

I know the actress made herself PNG, but I'd still love to see her return.

And why couldn't Malcolm have returned for the memorial? Wouldn't his other CBS show let him take an hour off to shoot a scene in GC?

R81 They had the funeral for him two years ago which Shemar was at. I’m really unsure why they even had the tribute to him if they’re not going to bring a lot of the core characters together in one room. Kind of no point to this episode since he’s been dead for two years, but only to remind viewers how great the show via flashbacks which does the show no favors right now. I liked KSJ, but his character was a little too perfect until they made him an alkie on the show. As for Victoria, nutty as a fruitcake. She probably regrets sabotaging her chance of being brought back for a steady paycheck, but there was a window of time to bring back Drucilla and it’s long passed.

Regarding Sharon Case: Alan Sarapa had the fucking nerve to say he doesn’t like the new EJ on Days’ face. Have you fucking looked in a mirror lately Alan, you ugly fuck? He and that fat ass Dee Dee got fed questions by Nelly bottom. You are homely Alan! We cannot understand what you say.

I watched it at the beginning when it was nicknamed "Hung and the Restless". Sort of surprised at the relaxed attitude about sex. Snapper as played by William Gray Espy fucked any woman who walked by. Brendad once got a part time job as a manicurist only to be proposition by a guy and she seriously considered it. She also started work at a brothel and her first customer at the door was her brother Snapper. And remember when Chris was raped by Tony Geary? I remember the cliffhanger on Friday. She just moved into an apartment and Geary zeroed in on her. When she was saying goodbye, he gets his foot in the door and announces he has a knife in his pocket and doesn't want to use it. On Monday, we saw her on the couch with a blanket over her, sobbing. Or what about when Leslie went to a mental institution and was routinely pursued by a lesbian? I mean, this was some good shit.

Espy is a homo.

r78 not true at all. I worked on Y&R in the 90s. Yes Ed Scott was EP but Bill Bell was still in charge. Bill wrote all the bibles for the story arcs so for Jeanne to say it was a revolving door was wrong. Bill wrote all the stories, the writers just fleshed them out (he was a co-head writer with Kay Alden and then Jack Smith. Bill retired in 98 - so yes there have been multiple head writers since but Mel had been married to Ed for a long time by then and I believe he eventually was let go to go work on B&B in some capacity.

I was there when they did the whole Kay/Marge storyline with Sexy Rexy. Jeanie had a ton of air time in the 90s.

R86 that’s the biggest problem with the show now. No writer from its heyday writing for the show or as an executive consultant to keep it from being the sleeping pill it’s become.

No. Not even close.

The Bold and Beautiful owes it's success to the Lauren Fenmore VS Sheila Carter crossover in the early 90s...Before the crossover their ratings were flat......Even DL Fave Peter Barton crossed over as Scott ....Sheila getting Scott to HER side to protect her from Eric learning the truth was genius--shocking Lauren into realizing Scott knew Sheila was alive for MONTHS and never told her!!...Now THAT was a soap twist....(Video Link)....Sheila...Scott...Lauren...Eric...

Bond Gideon IS Jill Foster.

I was once Jill Foster Abbott too!

The role of Jill Foster Abbott is being played today by Melinda Fee.

Scoche Marin IS Katherine Chancellor!

There are NO gay men in Genoa City....Unless you count that time Rafe went down on Adam Newman...Or Kyle....

R89, the Stephanie vs. Brooke rivalry was also a big part of what used to make B&B great. And Darlene Conley as Sally Spectra. It's a shame that Conley died and that Flannery left the show.

R86... that has to be my favourite storyline of all time... almost light hearted for Y&R. Cooper was funny. The supporting cast was a bit overpacked.... a lot of players in that conspiracy... Clint, the butler and the maid, the Dick Van Dyke guy and the French sidekick... but Marge was fun. I never understood why they canned it so quickly, given Bell could let a storyline run three years past its sell by date.

I heard a story once one of those soap columnist types that Jerry Douglas and Brendad Ickson came to blows. Don't know if it was true - it seems incredible - but it was sworn true to me.

NO

Dallas was

Jeanne Cooper finally wins the Emmy!

R98 Probably the best daytime Emmy speech ever. Rest In Peace Jeanne.

I loved this.

Due to illness, the role of Katherine Chancellor is being played today by Patience Cleveland.

r89 not true - B&B was always top 4 ish in the ratings . That storyline - the day they revealed Shelia in LA alive and well it went to #2 but never unseated Y&R

The one who plays Michael is a gay.

According to some sources, they made a great effort to hide Bell's Alzheimer's diagnosis and symptoms. The big mystery is when that kicked in and how much involvement he had with the show at various points. Some have reported that he started going down hill as early as 1995 and that his involvement with writing and producing was sporadic. Who knows.

The only thing I sort of remember from Jeanne's book is that Melody stopped speaking to her for a period of time and she didn't know why.

[quote] And Darlene Conley as Sally Spectra.

Camp factor was high, but a great villain.

Tricia Cast as Nina Webster (and Cricket's friend) was a head scratcher to me. Seemed like Nina (the character and the actress) walked in from another soap opera. She always seemed trashy to me. Like she should permanently have crimped hair in a side ponytail.

R105 wasn’t that the point that Nina WAS trashy?

R106, IIRC, yes, she started out trashy, but then started having normal story lines. Yet, she still looked trashy to me.

Tricia is a good actress. I started watching when I was 20 in 1987 and I liked the way she went after Phillip and fought with Jill. In fact, they killed Phillip off so she could get all his money. Bill Bell admitted it was a mistake. He’s insane now, but I would’ve love to have seen Bierdz on the show in the 90s.

Y&R was the first soap opera to employ Hollywood production standards. Special attention was paid to lighting, make up, and sets. Even though it was a soap opera with the standard love triangles, conflicts, and betrayals, from the very beginning it "looked" different. Y&R also had the advantage of being produced in a purpose built television studio. New York originating soaps used studios that were cobbled together from old theaters, warehouses, a dairy (CBS), and even a riding stable.

Nina and Tricia are fabulous.

Nina was popular because viewers identified with her. And Nina falling for and marrying the rich heir prince was classic soap storytelling.

Nina was a classic soap heroine.

Nina is fat now.

They only paired Tricia Cast with gay men. Why was that?

My favorites have always been Tricia Cast (Nina) and Beth Maitland (Traci Abbott). Really like those gals. And Nina Averson was without a doubt, the most beautiful actress on soaps.

Don Diamont as Dollar Bill on B&B is wonderfully camp and fun. I remember when they killed him off as a Brad-Sicle.

[quote]They only paired Tricia Cast with gay men.

Hmmm, did they pair her with “Super Rock Star” Danny Romalotti? Maybe if it doesn’t work out with the lovely Miss Tits McSommer, Jabottom might be a possibility for Nina.

Didn't Nina have to get Phillip shit-faced drunk while she was ovulating? Wasn't that how she bagged Phillip?

Don't forget her pairing with Miss Michael Corbett.

Nina was also paired with Francesco Quinn, son of Anthony Quinn who died very young.

To be clear at r117 Francesco died early, not his father

Dumb Dylan, who always has the April Sweeps scoop over their at SON, loves the current stories!

I know Bill Bell was straight, and from what I've heard, aggressively so, but it's hard to fathom a straight man writing all this campy crap, not least of all the Jeanne/Brenda scenes.

Bell was fascinated by incest too. Total weirdo.

Jeanne claimed she was all set to leave Y&R in the early '90s and head for NYC to join ATWT, where Miss Marland had written a new character for her. I call bullshit on the entire story!

Here is the first time Jill enters the mausoleum.

R122, I know she admired Marland, but where would she fit in on the ATWT landscape? That show was top heavy with mature women.

And Jeanne, bless her, excelled at one thing: scenery chewing. ATWT? Lucinda's long lost elder sister? I dunno.

Yeah, I don't buy that she would up and leave Y&R. She got many great stories in the '90s -- Marge, Rex dying, breast cancer, Jill discovering her rights to the mansion, etc. Like Eric Braeden she was the face of Y&R.

Wasn't part of the story also that Marland was trying to lure Jane Elliot to play Jeanne's daughter? I remember reading at the time that Marland and Caso were planning to revamp ATWT, give it a fresh feel, a bit after that boring, meandering Carolyn Crawford murder story that alienated viewers finally played out. Maybe part of that revamping included Jeanne's and Jane's characters.

I would have tuned in for a Jeanne, Jane, and Liz Hubbard scene.

I didn't like how 100-years-old Victor Newman became THE sex symbol on Y&R. Every woman on the show fell for him / had sex with him at one point or another. Y&R turned Brad Carlton (Don Diamont) into a simp. He was younger and sexier than Victor. Sad.

Eric Braeden is one of the reasons why Y&R slumped. His massive ego - and the fact that the show catered to it - ruined the show, at least for me.

It was so ridiculous how every woman - even the blind ones! - would fall for Victor. Or when Victor shoved his nose into every part of the town. Victor even had more power than the Genoa City police. Beyond ridiculous. I get why Peter Bergman told him off. It would be frustrating always having to lose to Victor or have Braeden always have the last word.

I think Braeden has mellowed somewhat but there could have been more interesting stories if they weren't so intent on making Victor invincible. Plus, the show became way too Newman-dominated.

The focus groups and the viewers must have loved Braeden, since he was always leading front burner storylines. And he was always on the covers of the rags, so his covers probably sold well.

My mom saw me watching Y&R (she didn't watch soaps), saw Eric Braeden, and said: What the hell are you watching? She said: He's a B-ACTOR. I guess Mom didn't really understand soaps and was just appalled that he had an acting job.

Actually, 0P, the greatest soap opera ever was an unfinished Puccini operetta about the invention of soap.

[quote]I would have tuned in for a Jeanne, Jane, and Liz Hubbard scene.

I can assure you my membership would run in the opposite direction.

I love Mark Grossman as Adma. He is tha onlee won theyre is! lol. Josh grifth’s YR is a masterpeace!

Eric Braeden does have a big ego, but he made Victor Newman into one of the biggest characters on Y&R (and daytime). He was one of the few soap opera characters that non-soap opera viewers would recognize.

Vee, who is in the biz, is Eric Braeden’s agent. He negotiated mega deals for Eric.

I remember when he first popped on screen in Titanic as John Jacob Astor.

The audience burst into laughter.

Having watched most of the soaps in their heyday, I would say All My Children at its peak was the best in class. Larger than life characters, great New York theater actors with excellent chemistry, memorable stories, iconic couples, a range of veteran and young actors... it was truly the best.

^ I would apply that description to Guiding Light in the mid 80s.

In total agreement, r139. In its heyday, AMC had such an electricity and energy about it that no other show could duplicate. It had such unique characters and such a diversity of character types that couldn't be found on other soaps.

Dumb Dylan is devastated. The LOVE of his life is engaged to Sharon Case. Dumb Dylan will get even more stupid. Last week he commented that Days and the other 4 soaps will last for decades. Dumb Dylan is so dumb..........

Nothing ever topped GL from about 1976-82. From the Dobsons to Marland as headwriters, the show was just amazing.

Y&R, however, was so good for so long because it was treated with respect and wasn't dumbed down at least not until 2005. Having one headwriter (Bell and then his protegee Kay Alden) oversee the show for so long helped maintain consistency and a certain feel to the show. It also maintained the large cast, the high production values and the lengthy scenes longer than all the other shows. It had ridiculous stories (Brad locked shirtless in a cage by his deranged ex-wife) at times but nothing incredibly outlandlish like what you saw on GH or Days starting in the early 1980s and the rest of the soaps by the mid-1990s.

The major issue I had with Y&R was that it was largely humorless. AMC, and Nixon, mixed humor and very colorful characters effortlessly with the meldorama of soaps. (Of course, some here on DL loathe AMC specifically because it dared have moments of humor unlike the ultra-stiff and WASP-centric ATWT, which is DL's favorite soap).

Of course, Y&R had unintentional humor during the Bell days: the stilted dialogue, characters in their 30s still callling their fathers "daddy," Brenda's awful Joan Collins impression starting around 1985, Victor in that black tank top.

I think that's why I liked the Marge thing. It was hammy but it wasn't funny.

I just have to wonder if the lack of humour was the reason.

Y&R even in its golden age had issues. It kept pushing Bell's pet daughter so we had to deal with Cricket's ongoing drama for years. I didn't dislike LLB as much as others but think of how much better the stories would have been if they had been given to other, better actors like Tricia Cast, but then we did have Cast and Rowell who were better actors to balance things out.

I agree Y&R could have had more humour but we did have Barbara Crampton, so fabulous as Leanna Love and MS was good as Phyllis in her initial years (and the octopus story was actually funny). They turned both characters from psychos to troublemakers. Even for all her mayhem backstage, Rowell was consistently great and she often brought a lot of humour to Drucilla especially since the Winters always had some drama and she definitely brought out the sexier side of KSJ. They had great chemistry.

[quote] It had ridiculous stories (Brad locked shirtless in a cage by his deranged ex-wife) ...

I missed this era of Y&R. However, Brad was hot as hell and I can understand the shirtless situation.

Don Diamont is definitely better used on B&B than Y&R.

They didn't really seem to know what to do with Brad on Y&R. When he left and came back in the '90s, the character did improve a bit. He was a lot more sarcastic and ambitious. But like Jack, Brad always seemed to lose to Victor. It was so annoying. DD was definitely a threat to EB because DD was so fucking hot. It was believable that all these women (Ashley, Nikki, Olivia, Sharon, etc) would fall for Brad, unlike Victor.

On top of being hot, Don Diamont was very polite to me when I served him a drink (back in my restaurant days).

Peter Bergman (Jack Abbott) was kind of wooden in his lines delivery. However, he had extremely nice hair and was very handsome. He, also, turned into a simp at the inexplicable altar of Eric Braeden.

[quote] I remember when he [Eric Braeden] first popped on screen in Titanic as John Jacob Astor. The audience burst into laughter.

That is hilarious.

Bergman broke COVID-19 protocol when he banged Scoche Marin (NuKay) in her dressing room.

Why wasn't Miss Michael Learned asked back as OldTempNuKay?

Vee nixed Miss Michael Learned coming back because the show refused to change their opening. Y&R, starring Miss Michael Learned. Vee is in the biz, you know.

Does lezMariah still have the fat arms?

Is Camryn with the fat arms still ‘bi’? Or has she gone all out lezzy?

This is an absolutely fantastic Jill and Nina scene, rich with history and character driven dynamic. The women of the CBS soaps were so multi faceted and fleshed out. Soap opera really did have the greatest female characters on television until shows like The Sopranos came out and primetime got in on the act. I actually think the Jill/Nina relationship was one of the show's strongest and more interesting than Jill's decades long feud with Kay, because Nina was from the same background so Jill was really grappling with a part of herself.

Why doesn’t vetsoapfan like TYATR like TGL?

Thanks for posting that R156. Those were really good scenes.

I guess teh Nina/Jill feud doesn't get as much traction because they never really fought over the same man or there was less humor in their scenes. But Cast and Walton were dynamite in scenes together. I loved how Nina called out Jill. Every time.

I can't believe those clips are almost 25 years old. They're still as good as ever. Watching that clip again, I remember why Y&R was #1 and so popular in the '90s. The production values, the music and the acting were so good.

For every LLB or Shari Shattuck, you had Tricia Cast, Barbara Crampton, Victoria Rowell, Michelle Stafford (original years only), Heather Tom, and Jess Walton to really raise the stakes. I also thought Sandra Nelson did a great job as Phyllis. She made her a lot more sympathetic and made her a certain sadness to the character that worked.

*brought a certain sadness to the character

Maybe? But can we agree Santa Barbara was the worst? But so bad that it was good!

It seems like Jill/Nina was supposed to mirror Jill/Katherine, I would assume that Bell's retirement ended that. The through line was yet another Phillip being fought over.

This is why writing regimes with no history of the show ruin certain things. They rename Phillip to "Chance" and the legacy and possibilities of that character is lost.

Go to 5:55 and then 15:05 for Bond Gideon as Jill and the first actor to play John.

Bringing back Phillip was so stupid and the reasoning was so ludicrous. They obviously realized it too - and the fact that Bierdz was an even worse actor than before - that they nipped it in the bud. The only nice thing about Bierdz coming back was he and Cast still had nice chemistry as friends.

I can't believe anyone thought that AMC was the cream of the soap crop. AMC is the epitome of why people laugh at soaps. Non-acting models tossing their hair back, horrible writing, the type of environment where Susan Lucci was considered Emmy-worthy. For every Julia Barr or David Canary, you had a zillion Cameron Mathisons. Just awful.

Even though it had it's problems, I think it's generally accepted that AW from 72-79 was the best that daytime soap opera can get.

^r165, that didn't characterize AMC during its heyday. I don't think a lot of people understood the show, and it was tricky to write. It was very avant garde in a way. The show combined several different styles. You'd have one scene that was deeply romantic, and then cut to a solely farcical scene. These diverse elements would even be used within the same scene. Agnes punctuated a lot dramatic scenes with humor. I think that's why it is still so beloved. People who watched the self-serious P&G shows didn't get it. Wisner Washam and Lorraine Broderick carried on that tradition. The show began losing its identity when the network began interfering, and was totally non-watchable the last decade with the horrible models.

[quote] r80- Cooper also made it clear that once Melody (Nicki) got married to a Y&R bigwig, a lot of time was spent lighting Melody to look her best on camera.

She married Ed Scott in 1985. He was a line producer at that time. He's now executive producer. Brendad used to complain about that relationship as well.

Melody Thomas Scott, The Norma Shearer of daytime TV.

TGL was the best soap ever until it dropped The from its title.

Given the nature of soaps, how they can continually jump the shark and then reinvent themselves, I don't think there's ever been a best soap, though Y&R probably had the most sustained period of flourishment of all the shows. At different periods, almost all of the most successful soaps, maybe except for B&B, have been "the best" soap. When I say the most successful soaps, besides Y&R, I mean ATWT, GL, GH, AMC, OLTL, DOOL, AW, Doctors, EON, and RH.

Only the most flattering lighting for Mel.

Mel was lucky that she had such amazing chemistry with EB because otherwise, I find her character annoying.

One of my favourite scenes was when Nikki and Jill were arguing, Nikki slapped Jill and then Jill slapped her back and the shock on Nikki/Mel's face looked very genuine. I still wonder to this day if Jess actually slapped her back in character and it was improvised.

Erica Hope will always be Nikki to me.

I can’t stand Melody always having the same facial expression (jaw dropped to the floor, looking surprised).

[quote] Mel was lucky that she had such amazing chemistry with EB because otherwise, I find her character annoying.

The only time I liked her was when she was having the affair with (Terry Lester's) Jack. That story didn't work when they replaced Terry with the flaming queen Mary, Peter Bergman. PG has the sex appeal of the clap.

Mel's character in Victoria Rowel's trashy novels is hysterical, though. She should play Nikki like that.

Melody always sounds like her nasal passages are clogged.

The irony is that Bergman is straight and Terry was a big old flaming queen.

Lester was so good as Jack because he was a bad boy and didn't make Jack too soft.

Bergman's Jack is more fun when he lets the snark out (like "The Bradsicle").

The fact that this show is set in a place called Genoa City, in WISCONSIN, which is populated by so many tycoons, has always made it instantly unbelievable to me. Even more unbelievable than Pine Valley being on a beach.

Mel is the bitchiest bitch whoever bitched! She didn’t speak to Jeanne. Cunt Mel. And thank god, Mel has never won an Emmy. She sucks! Yes, she gained status by sucking.

Has anyone heard from Dumb Dylan since the best actor ever Mark Grossman got engaged to Sharon Case? Has Dumb Dylan posted our June sweeps spoilers yet????

Whoa!!! The one who plays Amanda’s mother has HUGE tits!!!!!! Huge tits. Wowzer.

[quote]Erica Hope will always be Nikki to me.

Who?

[quote] The irony is that Bergman is straight

Mmm hmmm. Sure, Jan. Have you ever met him? Victoria Rowell has alluded to his homosexuality as well.

Plus doesn't have have a Hugh Jackman's sized wife?

Ah, Rowell, where there's a trustworthy source with her head screwed on straight.

As I recall didn't Bergman threaten to quit if Rowell ever came back?

[quote] As I recall didn't Bergman threaten to quit if Rowell ever came back?

According to VR, it was that cunt, Michelle Stafford who threatened to quit. She (allegedly) got several other cast members, including La Bergman, to join her in the ultimatum.

[quote] Ah, Rowell, where there's a trustworthy source with her head screwed on straight.

She's crazy, but crazy people spill the tea. When you read her books, you absolutely know which parts are very thinly veiled true stories from the set.

What’s the story on Jabottom? He can’t act and seems nelly as they come. I hope they never pair him with Adam in scenes. Would be embarrassing for the lad.

[quote]It was believable that all these women (Ashley, Nikki, Olivia, Sharon, etc) would fall for Brad, unlike Victor.

It was believable that women would be attracted to Victor. He was handsome when he was younger and he was wealthy and powerful. As Henry Kissinger said, power is the great aphrodisiac.

They hire the oddest-looking Black actors on this show except for Kristoff and Bryton.

the CBS soaps were vastly superior to the other ones. In writing, acting, production values. All My Children was embarrassing. I mean look at the sets and lighting and background music here... it's amateur hour:

Rowell is a god damned NUT case. Psycho.

R194- Agree- AMC is the most overrated soap ever. The show looked horrible in the early 90's.

Even went it got mega popular during the Natalie in the well storyline- it looked horrifically cheap.

However, the show was much better (and produced much better) in that 87-90 timeframe.

I recall 88 being awesome. Granted, I was 11 years old.

Not saying that Rowell wasn't a little bit crazy, but I do believe her claims of backstage racism and just how dysfunctional the Y&R set is. A lot of what she was complaining about is playing out now all across Hollywood. I mean, just the hiring hairstylists who can work with black hair and lighting directors who know how to light all shades of actors is not too much to ask for.

Peter Bergman is straight. That's the final word on the matter.

Melody Thomas Scott wore a clown wig for a backstage party and Rowell interpreted it to be a racist act, claiming she donned an Afro wig. The problem today is that intentional exaggeration will be believed and anybody can accuse anyone without evidence.

Ask Ed Scott what he thought about Mel and the wig. Ed totally has blood on his hands.

MTS is not racist. She was one of the biggest cheerleaders for a Nikki/Neil romance several years ago.

Mel became a bitch after marrying Ed. Her power diminished when Ed got fired.

[quote] The only thing I sort of remember from Jeanne's book is that Melody stopped speaking to her for a period of time and she didn't know why.

The even weirder thing was that Mel stopped talking to her for over two years and then one day just started talking to her again. As if nothing had happened.

r176 that is funny because Terry Lester was a big flaming moe.

Did Terry suck Bierdz’s cock?

Terry Lester was NOT a homosexual! We had a mad, passionate love affair!

I'm surprised that Maura West did not succeed during her year on Y&R. She was a huge success on ATWT and GH, winning Best Lead Actress Emmys for both shows. Why do you think Y&R was different?

I think the Maura West thing was doomed to failure because she was forced on to the show and there were some behind the scenes who wanted her to fail. For fuck sake, they made her Diane Jenkins. That right there should tell you that she was sabotaged.

r207 because she was miscast, genius. Diane Jenkins was a character who was 15-20 years older than Maura based on the actresses who came before her. They should have cast her as a Tricia McNeil or Grace Turner recast if they were intent on using her.

I think some shit went down on that show regarding Maura that we will never know about. Everyone always cites the age thing. The soaps, Y and R included, have always played fast and loose with the actors and characters ages. No one said a word about Adam being played Muhney who looked 40, when the character was supposed to be like a teenager. Diane was supposed to be I guess in her 50s when Maura was on. Totally possible for a woman to look that great in her 50s.

Played by^

In the late 2000s/early 2010s, Y&R brought in a lot of name actors, none of whom seemed to work out in the long run.

Maura West

Genie Francis

Eden Riegel

Debbie Morgan

Darnell Williams

Stephen Nichols

Bell shows require a certain actor. Some come with big expectations but never do well. When they cast Brian Patrick Clarke as Thorne, he thought he was being wasted and left. On a half hour show there is only room for a few divas. Try joining a cast that had Susan Flannery AND Darlene Connley. You have to make a character your own and sell it to the audience. If you fail in the first few weeks it's curtains for you. Look at Barbara Crampton. She came on as Leanna Love, hired to write a tell all about Victor, turned out she was Stephen's crazy ex who tried to kill Ashley with a poison lei. She was as bat shit as Sheila but Barbara made it her own, and they kept her. Look at Ronn Moss. Wooden as hell as an actor but to this day he is Ridge. Thorston Kaye is a good actor but he just cannot take the Ridge role. Heather Tom. She plays Kaite. The first actress to play Katie was mousy and boring. Heather came along and made it her own.

you make great points R213

FYI: Brian Patrick Clarke played Storm, not Thorne.

And you're right about Crampton; Bell LOVED what she was doing and kept her around.

[quote]r169 Melody Thomas Scott, The Norma Shearer of daytime TV.

Oh, was she a cross eyed ox, too?

r215 = Joan Crawford

Telma Tompkins is going to appear on the show.

Telma Hopkins? Now there’s a draw. lol

[quote]Heather Tom. She plays Kaite. The first actress to play Katie was mousy and boring. Heather came along and made it her own.

Heather Tom will always be Victoria Newman to me.

[quote]I think the Maura West thing was doomed to failure because she was forced on to the show

Forced? By whom? I never saw her on Y&R, as I had given up on the show years earlier, shortly after the LML firing. I certainly wasn't going to watch because Carly Tenney had moved to Genoa City, after the way she destroyed Oakdale.

[quote] Even though it had it's problems, I think it's generally accepted that AW from 72-79 was the best that daytime soap opera can get.

Too bad P&G didn't start archiving until Harding Lemay jumped ship.

[quote] Telma Tompkins is going to appear on the show.

Is she any relation to Telma Hopkins, who is also appearing on the show?

No. Telma Tompkins played Aunt Tachel on [italic]Tamily Tatters[/italic].

[quote] Forced? By whom? I

Forced may be a strong word, but someone at CBS had the idea that, since Maura was such a talent (Emmys and all) it was in the network's interest to keep her. She went to Y&R, but there was likely nothing organic about that choice or that role - CBS wanted it and appears to have pushed hard for it, but I doubt anyone at YR itself thought she was right for the role, And of course the usual cunts at YR played their usual games.

Apparently it was so bad for Maura she left early as a result.

[quote]And of course the usual cunts at YR played their usual games.

I usually don't get caught up in behind the scenes bullshit, but what those usually cunts did to Maura (who is by all accounts generally a lovely person) was just over the top. Ran that woman away.

MTS loved Maura. It was Braeden and Morrow who screwed her over.

Eric Braeden has completely fossilized, melting into a wall at the studio.

[quote] but someone at CBS had the idea that, since Maura was such a talent (Emmys and all) it was in the network's interest to keep her.

I didn't add that this was as ATWT ended, so CBS was trying to find her a role before she left (which she eventually did, heading to GH)

I wish someone would write an unvarnished behind the scenes book. From The Maid’s Room by Esther Valentine. Sounds like the set was a viper hole of hell from the beginning. Drugs, BJs, tantrums, fights, egos, hate. The fact that JC fucked her on air son Brock could be a great start.

I think the behinds the scenes stuff has been way overblown. The set seems no better or worse than other sets. The vets seem to be pretty tight with each other.

When is Doug Davidson's return airdate?

Maura hates Y&R and how the backstabbers and egos treated her.

[quote] she's certifiably crazy - legit mental illnesses. That aside, she's very kind and interesting

There was a time that might have been true of Brendad, but not now.

Maura was friendly with Muhney. He defended her when she was let go, and I think got in a dig at Hans in the bargain.

Why did Bell axe Deb Adair? She was probably the best actress to play Jill, and she effortlessly combined the naivete/sweetness of the character with the more shrill aspects that Brenda seemed to emphasize.

R231 when hell freezes over.

[quote]I think the behinds the scenes stuff has been way overblown. The set seems no better or worse than other sets. The vets seem to be pretty tight with each other.

By all accounts, Y&R is a snake pit of cliques and mean girl antics. That is has been the consistent talk for years. There is a certain thing that happens at a #1 show where everyone gets an ego and they start thinking that they alone are responsible for a show's success.

The thing about Y&R is that for the longest time, it was consistent and it looked beautiful and it was #1 in HH, but it was never the "buzz" show that some of the other soaps were. So they fell back on being the "class act" of daytime which caused things to get messy backstage.

R236 Thanks for the translation.

The original dweet at 3:30 in the morning read: "Wan shelll freeeches ovr."

R235 I don't think Bell axed Deborah Adair. In 1983, she got the role of "Tracy Kendall" in primetime soap, Dynasty, and exited.

R234 Actually, Muhney's comments about Maura in relation to Braeden pissed her off and ended that friendship. Suddenly The Muhneys were no longer invited to pool parties at The DeFreitas household.

r237 I can tell you this. I worked on the show during the Sheila Carter heydays and cross-over. Kimberlin Brown was a clique unto her own. She had an M.O. She would befriend cast members to use them then dump them when higher-up cast members befriended her. She and Tonya Lee Williams were BFFs until she got in with Melody, landing Melody's publicist as her own. She began to make the same demands as Mel, She wanted the same makeup person (usually Karen Faye) and her bff to be her photographer on all photo shoots she was in. She would start rumors on the set, cause drama with other cast members. When Bell wanted to move her to B&B she took it as a personal triumph. She tried to befriend KKL but she was not having it so she quickly became friends with Hunter Tylo. She was so involved in Hunter's life then she turned on her when she was getting divorced. She testified Hunter was an unfit mother on behalf of Michael Tylo - except- they reconciled.....OOPS.

R241... are you also R286? If so, can you tell me why they wrapped up the Marge storyline so quickly? For Y&R that was a blink. Also, is it true they had plans to cast a real name as Dina, back in the eighties, when she came on?

^^ she sounds like a DL kind of gal!

[quote]I think the behinds the scenes stuff has been way overblown. The set seems no better or worse than other sets. The vets seem to be pretty tight with each other.

You don’t know much about TV, do you.

[quote] There is a certain thing that happens at a #1 show where everyone gets an ego and they start thinking that they alone are responsible for a show's success.

THaT"S REDICuLAS. EVRYONE KNOS IM" RESPONSABLE FOR THE SUSCESS OF THE YOUNG AN D RESTLESS!!! 70,087,0873208,939,0920,932970 VEWERS LEFT WEN BILL BELL HAD ME FIReD ILEG ALY AND GOT THE MOB INTO MY FRAUD DEVORSE!!!!!!! ITS ALL FRAUD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GET MY B OoK AT GELSENS TRUMP 20024

Michael Muhney really flamed out, too.

As much as he probably would have become a mumbly Roger Howarth imitator, he was one of the last really exciting actors Y&R has seen. Grossman's solid, but Muhney's chemistry......well, he could have really been a believable next Victor.

But he played himself on several different levels and thought he would prevail. He found out otherwise.

I thought Muhney was an asshole on Veronica Mars, and I never really came to like him on Y&R. He was one of the reasons I stopped watching, early in the MAB regime. I like Mark Grossman many orders of magnitude more. And he actually looks as if he could be related to Victor. Muhney looked more like an Abbott.

I don't know what's true or not true surrounding the whole Muhney drama, but some of what he was complaining about related to the show is one of the reasons why Y&R and many soaps find themselves in the shape they're in. They are choosing to stick with characters and actors who brought the show success 30/40 years ago instead of supporting and promoting actors and characters that can take the show in a new direction and into the next generation. A lot of people forget and some don't even realize because it's been so long that when this show started there was no such thing as an Abbott or a Newman and they only exist because the writer took a bold chance.

I don't know about Dina her casting was before my time. Marge was cut short because Jeanne was tired of the dual role. It was a lot to get into the makeup for her. It was fun for a while but Bell shows drag things out.

Marla Adams was a real name. She was Belle.

Eric Braeden was a letch, probably still is. When I worked on the show my sister came to visit and I brought her to the set. Eric was working and in between scenes came over to say hello to us. He never, not once in my time there said boo to me and I was shocked to hear him say my name. "and who is this lovely lady" he asked as I introduced my sister. I should mention she is a stunner with a rack for days. All Hanz (his real name) could do was stare at her tits. It got really uncomfortable. After they were done with the scene the stage manager came up to me and said "now I know why he asked me what your name was" and laughed.

R251 Can we get you a drink, honey?

Come sit by us, let's chat! LOL

I remember talking with one of the soap reporters I know. He covered Y&R among other shows and said that the change within a few years from what it was circa 1986 to early 90s was night and day.

It was actually worse before than now, because there were just so many more stars at essentially the same basic level jockeying for the top slots. Certainly Braeden, Mel and Bergman are the three big ones left standing. But there was also Tracey Bregman, Michael Damien, Eileen (if/when she was around), Don Diamont, and later on, Stafford, LeBlanc, St. John and Rowell.

The attitude there just made people horribly competitive with one another.

That damn Katie Linder is trying to have me, Scoche Marin, killed off as Katherine Chancellor? Why, just who the hell does this flight attendant maid think she is?

mmm

Love hearing this backstage scoop. Interesting they would be so competitive with each other. Isn't it supposed to be an ensemble show?

R256 It's just been that way for a long time.

No show is the "family" any of them say they are, but Y&R has a long rep of being a toxic pit from hell.

The NYC sets seemed to be relatively happy and less ego-driven. They worked more like a reparatory company, and had bare bones amenities at the studios, compared to the LA sets.

What have Jabottom and his brah Swickard been up to lately?

80 year old Victor gets all the pussy all the time. Victor is above the law, always breaks it and rarely gets successfully prosecuted for it. Victor can take on 10 muscle men who are 1/4 his age and KO them all within seconds. EGO! EGO! EGO!

Give me a fucking break! This isn't Passions or an April Fool's Day episode of DoOL.

It is fun when Victor beats up in shape guys who are in their 20s and 30s.

The Young and the Cuntless

R262 Cuntless? Is Melody leaving?

Can't be cuntless if the Staff is still on, cunting up the set.

Although it sounds like she's been less cuntish since she returned. Probably because she realized people actually liked Gina.

R221, AW 72-79 was amaze balls - drawing room drama at its finest.

I was a kid about 10 years old in early 70s when I started watched and have vivid memories of so much.

Reading Harding Lemay's Eight Years In Another World brought so much back.

I can picture in my mind Claire (Gail Brown) walking in to Iris' party on Phillip Wainright's arm. How Ada and Gil felt like a third set of grandparents. Bitchy Carole (Carol?) Lamont gaslighting Lenore when she worked at Robert's firm. The first Sharlene scheming to win Russ' heart.

Lenore telling John Randolph she figured out he was screwing Bernice Robinson.

Plus, the AW opening and closing theme; it swept you into the world of the Matthews, Frame, and other families and Rachel and Mac and Iris and Jamie and Dennis...

It made me want to work in soaps.

Claire = Clarice.

Stafford’s new teeth make her way less insecure

For years I have heard people refer to Another World as "drawing room drama." What does "drawing room drama" mean?

One of the problems I think exists on daytime dramas is that producers and writers seem to cater to actors' egos. The fact that Victor always wins is an example of it. On Y&R, I feel like the same stories are being told over and over again: Billy vs. Adam/Victor; Nick and Phyllis falls in and out of love; Phyllis runs back to Jack; Sharon can't stay away from Adam. They need new people (or a new family) on the show in order to tell different stories. I like that now they have brought a few new characters to the show (Tara, Ashland, Imani, Sally). I like Ashland and Victoria together, and Sally brings the bad girl element that the show needs. Tara is a bit whiny, but maybe that will change in time.

r269 people who use that term are just pretentious idiots.

What killed Y&R was when everyone started referring to it as Y&R instead of TYATR.

AW during that time was about human emotion. There were none of the standard soap plots and soap tropes. The key story for most of that time was about two women with daddy issues. One with a shady past who was falling in love with a man old enough to be her father. The other woman, a spoiled, jealous, and possessive daughter who was trying to keep her father away from the woman with the shady past.

All of the drama came from that situation. No murders. No trials. No serial killers. No mob. The woman with the shady past was battling the daughter, the town who couldn't let the past go, and her own insecurities. The daughter was battling the new woman, her own jealousies and insecurities, and her own fractured relationships with men.

It was like a play. Five minute to eight minute scenes of two people talking. No plot and no action.

[quote]I like that now they have brought a few new characters to the show (Tara, Ashland, Imani, Sally).

I can't stand Sally.

I had a dream with Imani in it last night. She, an old (white, male, straight, rich) friend of mine who grew up in Dallas, and I were playing records on a turntable I owned twenty years ago, in the apartment I lived in then. We were trying to find something religious to play, but couldn't. I settled on a Nina Simone album, Baltimore. Dream logic.

It seems to me they've brought Susan Dansby in to enhance the black family unit that surrounds Devon. Since she's been story consultant, they've created the conflict between Devon and Nate, made him part of a triangle (which may have been done before, IDK), given Amanda some space to develop her family's backstory, and even brought Lily back.

I wish they'd keep the new Amanda. Mishael Morgan was fine as the lawyer who went after Devon's millions, but Karla Mosley makes more sense as someone Devon could fall in love with. Morgan appears to have gone to the PSS Academy of Acting owned by Heather Tom and Robin Strasser.

I still haven't seen Richard Burgi in the cbs.com actor credits, either contract or non-contract.

r273 why don't you go find a thread for Another World then? This is a Y&R thread.

[quote] They are choosing to stick with characters and actors who brought the show success 30/40 years ago instead of supporting and promoting actors and characters that can take the show in a new direction and into the next generation.

There's some truth in that. Bell did that major renewal of the show, sweeping out the Brooks and Prenstisses and in with Abbotts and the Newmans and later the Fishers. And it tried with the Rey whatever his name is family. Y&R tried to have it both ways after Bell... big focus on the vets didn't allow room for the new characters to grow.

MARY, r273! Yes, I'm sure most of the bored housefraus that the show targeted and who watched the show did so for the "drawing room" and play-like aspect of the series. Rolls eyes.

Wasn't AW one of the first to go when the serious cull of soaps started?

R273 please ignore cunt R275. We welcome AW chatter here:

AW only got really interesting when Lemay introduced the soapy aspects that we all want from our soaps: Pat going on trial for murder, Sven kidnapping Rachel. And in retrospect, the highly theatrical acting is hysterically bad. If they were doing this today, Watson and McKinsey and that ilk would've been laughed off the screens.

Bell wrote an out for Braden's ego. In the 90s when Jack took Jabot public, David Kimble went to Victor and told him so Victor could buy up all the stock of Jabot in shadow companies to take it over. I actually brought this up to one of the producers, that it was blatant insider trading. She looked at me and said "smart, aint it?"

I had an aha moment. Bell wrote a nuclear option to remove Victor if he needed to. That is what was great about Bell - he wrote things that played out over decades with some time bombs still left in the box.

If AW was so great, then where tf is it now?

I could live a thousand lives and still never understand Victor Newman's appeal.

Hans Gudegast is a mediocre actor at best and he's only "hot" if you like wrinkly old Bavarians that smell like BO and stale bratwurst juice. Yet all the men seem to worship him and the character's been married eleventy thousand times.

AW was great in the 70s. Its last 2 decades were mostly awful and unwatchable, and nobody paid attention to it except for some damaged gays who wanted to be drag queen Felicia Gallant, worshipped bulldyke Ada, and saw Mac Corey as their unconditionally loving surrogate father to replace the real-life fathers who rejected them for being "different."

This nutty fucking loon infests every thread. Nobody cares what the show is called, scat troll.

I vaguely remember a storyline where Hans took up with a very young gal.....maybe she was Greek.....very pretty ........ but they did outside kissing shots with the new HiDef and good night mother of pearl......poor Eric looked like a hundred with the craters and lines on his face. It was totally embarrassing. I couldn’t believe he allowed those shots to be aired.

The one time I actually felt sorry for the old sour kraut.

r279, you can't speak for everyone in this thread asshole. Go and Visit Rachel in another thread and leave us the fuck alone.

Your life will be immeasurably improved if you block it, R285.

R287 Slither back to your sewer, Gollum. No one rang for you.

I'm still dead bitches!

Serial Nutcase is here.

Who doesn't love a snackateria?

I think you're referring to Sabrina. Victoria's Italian friend who was briefly married to and impregnated by Victor before she was killed in car crash with Nikki's then husband David Chow (Vincent Irizarry).

Vee, who thinks he knows EVERYTHING, about everything needs to fuck off.

Yes! Thank you 293.

Is Vee Veronica Landers?

Vee wishes he was Veronica Landers. He’s in the biz, you know. THE BIZ!

Why are Mariah's arms so fat?

I know EVERYTHING!

Remember when Sabrina died Victor told Nikki he wished it was her wearing that toe tag? And now they’re a happy couple.

I AM the expert about everything.

[quote]That is what was great about Bell - he wrote things that played out over decades with some time bombs still left in the box.

Like that storyline where Jill and Katherine fought over the house. That was a great use of history.

The Jill/Kay house story was Kay Alden. Bill barely wrote anything post 1997

Did Bell make them mother and daughter? One of the all-time stupidest plots ever, and that's saying a hell of a lot.

r306 no that was his daughter in law Maria Arena.

Hello my dears! This week I, Scoche Marin, as the definitive grande dame Katherine Chancellor, taped scenes telling someone to go to hell at the funeral of a prominent Genoa City resident on television’s number one daytime drama, THE YOUNG AND THE RESTLESS. It will be juicy! I hope you enjoy the sneak peek. Ta ta for now! Off to wine with Mel, who calls me Mother.

Victor is completely abusive to Nikki, even though she is a bitch who thinks her shit don't stink. Still, wishing she was dead was low even for Victor.

I know a lot of the women on a Y&R board I used to visit complained a lot about that scene r300 and also Victor's treatment of Nikki in general. They loathed Victor and have made some of the same complaints. I agree that catering to Braeden's ego killed the show creatively. After a while, I just stopped caring about the Victor/Jack feud.

Bell was so fucking senile in 1996.

And it really was catering to Braeden.

He could seldom lose in a scene. Always had to have the character win. He STILL does not do soap press with Digest ***unless he gets the cover.***

I thought the Kay-Jill feud over the house was Kay Alden's first story?

Did Donnelly Rhodes (Kay's husband, Jill's lover) have any bedroom scenes back then? He was in his prime as a hot daddy back then!

Phillip took Jill's virginity in the bunkhouse. Katherine saw them fucking.

If Kay Alden wrote the Jill/Katherine house storyline, then it was basically a Bill Bell story.

Braeden’s ego is part of why we lost Alden and Smith. Braeden was in a snit when they had Victor go to prison around 2003. He never let them off the hook in interviews all the way thru 2005.

[quote] Did Bell make them mother and daughter? One of the all-time stupidest plots ever, and that's saying a hell of a lot.

R304 No, it was actually Jackass Smith who started that stupid yarn in 2003. .. Rather surprising, too, since Jack was raised under Bill Bell and had been in some writing capacity at Y&R since the late-70s.

Smith did, however, leave an opening to undo the story when he was still in charge, since Kay and Jill's bio-relationship had never been confirmed by a DNA test. .. Longtime viewers were PRAYING that a test would eventually disprove things. .. Unfortunately, after Lathag's 2006 coup, one of the first things she did was go ahead with the test and confirm the bio-relationship (ugh).

Then, when Maria Arena Bell was EP-HW, she decided to backtrack the story and undo the mother-daughter relationship. To accomplish this, she came up with the Tucker-Jill baby switch. .. In that story, it was revealed that Tucker McCall was actually Kay's baby, and he and Baby Jill had been born the same day and switched at birth. .. Unfortunately, this left a different can of worms to explain, where Jill then had wanted to find out who her real bio-parents were. .. She eventually discovered that a 16-year old Neil Fenmore had fathered her with his dirt-poor girlfriend from the wrong side of the tracks. I believe it was said that Neil's prominent and controlling father had forced the adoption on them, dispatching Neil to military school. The unknown girl ended up committing suicide.

I forgot that Lauren and Jill are sisters. Didn't MAB have her start referring to herself as Jill Fenmore at some point?

“Jill Fenmore” and Lauren calling Jill “sis” was some of the dumbest shit ever on this show. Sally Sussman basically said it in her interview with TVG Michael Logan in 2016. It has been basically “forgotten” since

Dumb Dylan thinks Jill is a real Fenmore and was upset they forgot the connection

It seems like only yesterday that Mal Young and Sally Sussman were ready to bring Y&R back to its former glory and JFP/Pratt's damage. It all fell apart rather quickly with stupid Sally admitting she had no game plan and was basically making it up as she went along, and then Mal pulling a power play to take control of the writing. Wasn't Kay Alden also consulting? That period is really hazy.

Sally’s tenure reset a number of characters and brought them back to normal. She needed someone who would complement her with crafting compelling story. Mal was an egotistical, chauvinistic pig to women. Ask Eileen Davidson and Beth Milstein, the latter of whom threatened to sue the show for sexism.

Mal was awful but I will say he did make Sharon's character more likable and sympathetic again, although I guess some people like messy Sharon who burned down the Newman residence, married Victor, almost ruined Newman Enterprises, and pretty much slept with every man in Genoa City.

R310 Yes, the Jill-Kay battle over the Mausoleum started in 1998 when Kay Alden was credited as HW. (Bill Bell was still listed as Sr. Executive Producer.)

To her credit, Alden also wanted to delve into more Chancellor history by having Nina, Kay, and Jill begin a battle over Teen Phillip (the character now referred to as "Chance"). This story was going to building on prior feuds over PC2 and PC3. .. They'd hired Penn Badgley as PC4 and moved him into the Mausoleum while Nina went on one of her book tours. But around this same time, Tricia Cast got married IRL and announced she was going to leave the show and move to Tennessee, so the planned story around PC4 got shelved.

So how did they explain the dna test? This is like bill spencer just showing up as if he was always around when they made SUCH a big deal about Caroline being his ONLY daughter - which ended up not being true with Karen.

I wonder if Penn Badgley would have stayed on if the storyline had kept going. So hot.

Sharon is only a decent character when Nikki is telling her how much she sucks

I'm the Slut of Sprinfg.....oh wait. wrong show.

I legit miss MAB’s Y&R. Except for the stupid Jill Fenmore, Diane Jenkins, Sarah Smythe, and Sharon/Victor shit, it was mostly enjoyable. Hasn’t been since.

R322 As I recall, they explained the (bad) DNA test by saying that billionaire Tucker actually knew about the long-ago baby switch and that Kay was his mother, but wasn't ready to reveal himself to The Old Battleaxe. Tucker had other plans for her. So when he somehow got wind of the request to access birth records and the subsequent DNA test, he had things manipulated to show Jill and Kay were related, since he didn't want Kay to have any reason to start looking for her real baby. In effect, Tucker was using Jill as cover. I think that's how it went.

I stopped watching during that time. Please tell me that Tucker's father was one of Katherine's stable boys.

R328 Tucker's daddy was "Arthur Hendricks," one of Kay's hook-ups when her first husband, Gary Reynolds, was over in Germany with Brock. .. We didn't see Arthur during Tucker's story, but he'd previously been on the show back in 2004 during the Kay-Jill mother-daughter stuff. Kay and Arthur were even supposed to get married then.

Arthur was play by hot grandpa, David Hedison (who passed in 2019). btw - Since Arthur was Tucker's father that means he's also Devon's grandpa. No one ever mentions this.

I haven't been consistently engaged in Y&R for almost two decades. I think it was when Cassie was killed off, it changed for me. Then Dru got killed off and then it just got worse.

Bringing Sussman and Alden back was disastrous. The show was so fucking boring!!!! Nikki playing the piano for weeks and weeks on end with her hand shaking. Yawn. No wonder they were quickly canned.

Its worst sin right now is that it is sooooooooo fucking BORING.

Hello my dears! This week I, Scoche Marin, as the definitive grande dame Katherine Chancellor, taped scenes telling someone to go to hell at the funeral of a prominent Genoa City resident on television’s number one daytime drama, THE YOUNG AND THE RESTLESS. It will be juicy! I hope you enjoy the sneak peek. Mel, who calls me Mother, said that this scene, like most of my scenes, was exquisitely gut wrenching.

anyway.....

Scoche, you are such a fabulous actress! I hope that performance gives you the Emmy! I can’t wait to find out whose funeral this is!

I was so sad to hear of Scoche Marin's death.

Tragic.

Scoche is getting the Lifetime Achievement Award at the Daytime Emmys. Well deserved!!!!

Kay Alden is a goddess!

I don't get this whole Scoche Marin inside joke. Can someone please explain it? I'm laughing at the posts, but I'm not sure why.

Y&R has recasted Kay to goose the ratings. Scoche is the new Mrs. C.

[quote] I still haven't seen Richard Burgi in the cbs.com actor credits, either contract or non-contract.

R274 I've seen Burgi's name in the cast credits that run with the regular, plain-old-television broadcast on CBS. He's listed with the contract actors. Here's a screencap of the credits that ran today (6/3). As you can see, he's right up there with with LaBergman and Hans.

As for his status, according to a "TV Insider" interview that was published in May, after being there awhile, Burgi said they asked him to extend his stay and mentioned that he's going to be around "through the summer." So I wouldn't doubt that for the time being, he's working under one of those limited contracts we hear about now and again.

I'd like to see Burgi sitting on my face.

Thanks, r341. I'll enjoy having him around. I hope he'll tear Jabottom's clothing off and put him in a cage, maybe torture him.

They'd be wise to offer Burgi something substantial to stick around. He fits right in and he said he loves working there.

My only complaint is that it looks they're going to pair him with Wimptoria.

I laughed out loud today when Nikki noticed her daughter's eagerness around Ashland and gave her that WTF side-eye.

Miss Piggy smells something bad and it ain't Lola's day-old shrimp tacos.

Victoria is kind of young for that Ashland character, isn't she?

R339 some poster a few months back lied and said they were resurrecting the character of Katherine. I think the Scoche thing, from what I remember, started shortly thereafter that this actress named her was going to take over the role. Dumb, but DL can be sometimes.

Scoche is Spicen.

Serial Monticello is mentally ill.

I wish Sooche would die because those posts are incredibly unfunny and tedious.

My dear, being jealous will not make you the grande dame of Genoa City. That is me, Scoche Marin, the definitive Katherine Shepherd Reynolds Chancellor Thurston Sterling Murphy.

Tell me Scoche, when are you going to die already? I suppose when the government finds a safe place to bury your liver.

R345 Victoria's always had daddy issues, so maybe she'll finally get to explore that.

R346 "Scoche" is a complete fiction.

We seem to have multiple demented souls here. That mess is one of them. The one that always talks about snatches eaten and mature actresses' bowel movements at various CBS daytime shows is another.

Both of them need to be locked away.

r353, they are the same poster.

I see, one is a sockpuppet.

Bitch I am going to play Kay Chancellor.

here's the QA with Burgi where he says he'll be around through this summer

if the show had guts they'd have him kidnap Kyle and keep him shirtless and caged all summer

Knowing how Y&R writes these days something tells me Ashland and Tara are both going to eventually end up dead and Kyle ends up with the kid and Summer will struggle with being a stepmother and it will put even more strain in their relationship.

Then Billy and Victoria will cheat and it will be the end of his relationship with Lily. Soooooo predictable.

Sounds boringly plausible R358

There's no 'there' anymore with Y&R

it's BORING

the characters vamp and yell and plead and cry and stomp their feet; they're trying to spin shit into gold and it's not working.

I can't believe GH isn't ahead of it in the ratings; that show is on fire.

The show’s abbreviation is TYATR. Not Y&R.

Scoche Marin is the most beautiful actress in daytime! We love you Scoche!

Did Burgi credit Vee for allowing his character to stick around? Vee is in the biz, you know. He knows everything about everything.

I can’t even think about TYATR without the Brooks and Foster families! The show has been a shell of itself since 1980! I can’t watch TGL either!

Where are Michael and his hag, um I mean, wife, Lauren these days?

What the fuck is TGL? trans/gay/lesbian?

I’m still bitching about what happened on The Secret Storm back in 1961. 60 years ago and I’m still not over it.

R366 Your soap opera viewing privileges are hereby revoked if you have to ask what TGL is. Heartbroken that you don’t remember what happened 44 years ago to my beloved TGL.

Why do I have the feeling that r368 would have a meltdown if I referred to Somerset as just "Somerset' rather than "Another World-Somerset"?

R369 Heart attack inducing. It’s TSS (The Secret Storm) and TGL THE Guiding Light. I just can’t with Another World - Somerset.

LIAMST

One Life to Live deserves to be in contention for greatest soap of all time - Karen Wolek’s prostitution odyssey, Billy Douglas coming out, Marty’s rape, Tina and Gabrielle’s machinations, Viki and Dorian’s legendary feud... This show is up there with Y&R and AMC at their finest.

OLTL seems pretty good from 68-71, then was uneven for the rest of it's run. OLTL is known for:

1) The Carla Storyline

2) Viki/Niki

3) Karen Wolek

4) Eterna??

5) Todd Manning and Marty's Gangbang

R373- The Carla storyline is ranked #1 by people over 70 years old. Nice try.

They weren't ranked in order R374. That's just the way I put them. It doesn't really matter what order they're in. But if you want to play the 70 years old card, do you really think anyone under, say, 45, are still discussing these things? Now go somewhere and sit down.

R375- 45 ain’t 70, boo boo.

Close enough on this particular board, sweet cheeks.

The geriatric gentleman neglected to include Billy Douglas and the AIDS quilt. That epic storyline definitely usurps the Carla storyline. Carla who?!??

Scoche Marin is the greatest actress! I love her emotions in her previews as Kay! She will add the extra pizazz we need on this show!

TYATR .

Am I allowed to say "Edge of Night" rather than "The Edge of Night", or is it imperative that "The" be part of the title?

My ex-bf was a die-hard AMC fan. I mean, DIE-HARD. I loved it too. We were watching an interview with some of the cast back in the early 90s, and he nearly had a coronary when Jill Larson referred to the show as "All My Kids." He reacted as if that were sacrilege.

This Scoche Marin verkakte has been going on since the day Cooper kicked the bucket. I'm beginning to think there's no such person as Scoche Marin.

r382, "Kids" is what people in daytime called AMC. They referred to Y&R as "Restless," B&B as "Bold," and As the World Turns as "World Turns." Nicknames...whaddya gonna do?

My friend was on As the World Turns and says they referred to it as A-TWAT.

You should have all realized by now that "scoche marin" is actually an Albanian slang expression meaning "stinky pussy."

I still refer to Search for Tomorrow and The Edge of Night as Search and Edge, respectively. Then again, I've always been a trailblazer of sorts.

Love of Life = LOL

LoL

TGL and only TGL.

390 posts about great soaps and no mention of Dark Shadows?

R391 see R73

Belle Clemmons will not win the Emmy this year.

The one thing I find silly about the whole "The" thing is that 1) P&G was stupid for thinking that removing a "the" would make the show seems younger and fresher and 2) that anyone is still hung up on this stuff a 40 years later.

Thank god we never had to deal with that at "The Brighter Day."

Only hip, young, contemporary people like me are at ease with dropping the "The." I never had a problem saying "Guiding Light." It must be a youth thing. You old fogies can continue calling it "The Guiding Light."

I reverse the trend by insistently saying [italic]THE General Hospital.[/italic]

I, too, r387, am a trailblazer. Proud, defiant, intractable.

Why did Eileen Davidson (Ashley Abbott) leave Y&R? She was on the Real Housewives of Beverly Hills for a while and then, poof, she was gone from both shows.

Eric Braeden was actually good on this episode (The Critic) of the Mary Tyler Moore show. He played the role of a pompous ass who came to town and got a job at WJM (broadcaster) as a "critic at large."

r399 type casting.

R398 here’s her interview if you want to take the time to watch. She had decided to leave before she won her second Emmy. Basically she wanted to slow down and spend some time with her teenager before they went off to college. The commute was killing her too when she had front burner storyline. She’s 60ish now so I can’t blame her for wanting to take a breath. They’ll probably never get her back full time. The show seems content just having her on every four to six weeks.

I don't understand this thread.

Also, why am I so pale?

Damn, who is Michael Fairman. Does she always slobber like that over a soap actor/reality broad? Embarrassing.

Michael Fairman is no Queen Locher.

Just two little housewives...

The only time Deidre Hall's diplomacy in praise of her co-stars evaporated was Eileen and Lisa on Real Housewives. She was WAS full of praise both, until HW was mentioned and she said flat out she did not like it, would never go on it, and women should respect themselves more.

R406 she’s right you know. But $$$$ over self respect. That’s Hollywood.

Has Dumb Dylan posted the June sweeps spoilers or is he still in mourning because Grossman got engaged?

Is Jill Forrester Abbott supposed to be related to the B&B Forresters? They're sister shows, so I figured there must be some connection.

She made far more for very little work doing the Real Housewives than she did doing Y&R over the last decade.

It's Jill Foster not Jill Forrester R409.

Eileen reportedly got $750,000 each season for Housewives. How much was she getting for Y&R? I know they rolled out the money for her 1999 return and I assume she took pay cuts when she returned on contract in 2008 and 2014. I would guess that Braeden, MTS, Bergman, and Stafford are the highest paid on the show now and in that order.

Jill... tempting men with her youth and her sexuality. Free with her body.

R410 Im sure she feels loyalty to the show. YR will always be her home. Plus with the RH income supplementing her YR money, it made it easier to walk away from both shows. Plus she still works some. YR peaked a long time ago anyway and I can’t imagine it being on the air in five years time.

Did I read that Jess Walton only does what she does so she can keep her health care benefits? Jill for all intents and purposes has left the show and the character contributes nothing. Does she work for drug plan?

A few years back MTS got into some kind of a contract issue. It was revealed that she makes almost $10,000 an episode with a guarantee of 1 episode per week. Don't know if that is still the case or if that $10K number was correct, but Y&R (for the number one show) seems to have a very small budget. Even the BB sets have shrunk. Frank over at GH is the only producer who seems to know how to keep his show looking good while staying on budget.

R415 The idea of old vets working just to get SAG-AFTRA health care benefits isn't much of a factor, since if they're eligible for Social Security benefits, then the union's policy is for them to move to Medicare when they reach age 65. .. And since most of these ancient soap dinosaurs worked a steady job for years and years, they're more than likely eligible. .. The only thing SAG-AFTRA does is offer some kind of group rate for the Medicare supplement, which is an optional, out-of-pocket expense for almost everybody anyway, and can be avoided by going with a Medicare Advantage plan.

From a SAG-AFTRA letter last year:

[quote] Senior Performers ... they will continue to have Medicare as their primary insurance, as they do today. Plus, they will receive a stipend under the new Health Reimbursement Account Plan to use for supplemental coverage of their choosing through Via Benefits. For many Senior Performers, this will mean comparable coverage at a comparable price.

^Is that was have to look forward to 25-30 years from now?

Jess is certainly on Medicare.

Jess' husband is, sadly, dying it seems.

Alan Sarapa is a hottie! Just posted part 2 of the interview with Sharon Case and her son Grossman. lololololol Poor Alan certainly got hit by the fugly stick.

Who got Dougie's old dressing room?

Or has it been turned into an all-purpose dormitory for the newbies who have to share?

I pissed in it before I left for good.

R330 I lost interest when Cassie died too.

Who got Jeanne’s dressing room where she took her choppers out and gave bj’s to Beau Kayser?

When was the last time Doug Davidson was on?

I'm still on contract, bitches!

R426 November last year

Dougie is still bitter so I guess they're not bringing him back. He's too busy retweeting tweets from his frau fans who shriek "Bring Doug back and Y&R will be great again!"

R429 I think Doug doesn’t want to be thrown crumbs after doing the show for decades. Like showing up once or twice every six months or a year. I can’t say I blame him. None of his kids are on the show anymore, and his TV wife Cricket is not on much. I wouldn’t mind seeing him if they had something decent for him to do, but frankly I don’t miss him much. YR is a shell of what it used to be. He’s not missing that much for not being on the show.

They fucked him over, but disbanding his detective agency with Andy.

My god- I was 8 years old when he was on but Andy is HAWT AS BAWLS!!!!!!! DAMN!

Dougie tweeted (dweeted?) something that made it sound like whatever they're willing to pay him to appear once a month as a glorified underfive isn't worth the long commute from his home out in Carpinteria. .. Can't really blame him. But gee. Salaries have been falling for years now. The golden era is ovah. He chose to move to a place more 2+ hours out of the city (on a good day), He should be happy the show paid him enough for nearly 40 years to buy that humongous estate. .. Maybe he should call Kimberlin and ask her about avocado farming.

There is no reason why Doug Davidson shouldn't be set for life.

Yeah, I always said, you can have Paul. I want Andy!

Eileen was fired after Br.avo realized how much they were paying her and how little drama she was willing to bring.

That is a straight up fact. And Eileen has KIND OF admitted this, but not fully.

I suspect that she was offered a MASSIVE paycut on RHOBH and then declined it..

That being said, she was ALWAYS good TV and offered a great counterbalance to the other cast members.

I would love to see her on RHOBH forever. Just a great, dignified, good person. And I never found her boring.

Jess Walton and her Husband are die hard Trumpsters. Belch. Eric Braden, MTS. Peter Bergman all of them were asked to take pay cuts to keep the show going - they were all getting 1 mill a year plus.

r404 Michael Fairmen is a muscle mary who fawns over soap people.

R437- Jess Walton is a TRUMPSTER? Jesus Christ. Never expected that.

I loved Brenda DICKson much more (from Youtube videos) but why does Jill inspire such pieces of shit to portray her?

Y&R not a single gay person but you have all the town's black residents rich and powerful. Very realistic.

Jess Walton is not a Trumpster. She retweets Kamala and I've never heard her or read about her gushing over Trump.

R437 is an idiot.

Jess Walton James is not a Trumpster. Not by any means.

Older campaign donation records show that she supported both Obama and the DNC.

In 2020 alone, she made something like 50 donations to ACT BLUE. (I lost count.) She also made separate donations to Biden for President, the Democratic Party of Oregon, and seven donations to the Progressive Turnout Project.

Thank god. R441!!

I now say Jess is the best Jill!!!

IMO, Eileen Davidson (Ashley Abbott) *was* boring on RHOBH. However, anyone who is "interesting" on those Housewives shows ends up in jail and/or is a sociopath. So, good sign for Eileen.

Lisa V. (RHOBH) was so damn jealous of Eileen, though. I think Lisa V. wanted to be an actress (not just in reality shows) and was jealous of Eileen for making a real living from being an actress all these years.

IMO, Eileen's house was ugly.

I refuse to abbreviate my favorite soap - Seven Heroines in Turmoil.

EVERY show goes through rough patches!

The surrogacy story is just plain awful. .. Dull Devon and Lesbian Mariah making a baby. Insipid Abby yakking into her cell phone. Nina and Tessa popping out of the woodwork for no particular reason. And still no hot, new Chance on the horizon yet. .. Such a boring, totally time-wasting mess. .. Since it's fiction, can we just pray for it to end RIGHT NOW with Mariah tripping down the stairs?

Billy gets Aunt Jack all worked up in a tizzy! LOL! Cue the lip biting!

Wow another new set. The show must have gotten a cash infusion. It's been awhile since we went "upstairs" at the Abbott house.

What have they had Tara dressed in for the last week? She looks like she's walking around in a silk negligee.

And finally - The bedtime story scene with Smurf Harrison might have been interesting if JaBottom had been reading "My Two Dads"to the lad - which could actually make for a novel storyline. .. Let's have Tara be exposed as a totally unfit, neglectful skank-of-a-mother. .. With her getting shot down in court, Ashland and Kyle both fear that they could lose custody of the boy to one another, so agree to move in together and share parental responsibility. In the process, they soon discover that they actually have much more in common than ever imagined! .. Feeling left out, poor-little-rich-girl Summer opts to return to Europe, and we never have to look at Hunter King's three layers of makeup ever again!

Some of my chief complaints right now

Tara-the bitch can’t act playing her. Recast now.

Billy and Lily-can’t stand these two. Jason Thompson doesn’t do a well adjusted Billy good and comes off as smug as unbearable. Same for Khalil. They are better off as just as co workers with Billy fucking things up and Lily cleaning it up. But of course they had to jump in the sack almost as soon as they started working together. Dumb.

Devon-send Bryton James packing. He brings nothing to this show anymore.

Kevin and Chloe-outlived their usefulness like 10 years ago. Cut them loose too.

Rey-they’ve made him totally stupid if he thinks Sharon and Adam won’t hit the sheets again.

Abby and the pregnancy-fast forward material. Even the great Tricia Cast is wasted with this stupidity.

R446 I agree with the majority of your observations, except I actually like the Billy-Lily chemistry, however, perhaps that has more to do with how much I hated him in Villy and her in Lame.

Also, while I agree that Kevin and Chloe are basically useless, at least they're only recurring. I still enjoy seeing Rikaart in the now-rare Baldwin-Fisher scenes.

And on that note ... What the hell happened to the touted storyline that GloHo was supposed to be involved in? Did they just drop that? I know the flash-drive that Gloria hid at the Mausoleum contained the embezzlement info against Newman (which was like a lame non-development), but didn't Gloria also do something "mysterious" over at the Abbott house? And didn't Lauren finally give Gloria a job as Sally's snarky, contemptuous assistant? That actually looked like it could be fun, since Sally deserves it. But I don't think we've seen Gloria for over two months now.

r442 - her husband John James is a hard core Trumpster.

[quote]I pissed in it before I left for good.

Me, too. In fairness, I thought I was in the can.

Eric Forrester (John McCook) from The Boring & the Botoxed visits Genoa City next Monday (June 14).

Is he coming to blow Peter Bergman?

Oh, good... the new wheelchair ramp set can get used again.

Nikki had her major cunt face on today for Adam. MTS is laughable.

R450 oh boring, I’m mean goody!

R452 Nikki's "I will show no mercy" line toward the end of her little diatribe against Adam made me laugh out loud.

^^^ Typo. Reply was to R453

The crossover they should think about doing for November Sweeps is have Zende Forrester and some hot NuNoah Newman be ex-lovers in Paris from where Zende returned from and Noah still is.

R455 me too. Wtf you going to do Nikki? Bore him to death?! Lol

^ Seduce him.

MTS is probably jealous that Victoria is getting Hot Daddy Ashland and not her.

Sorry, MissPiggy, you're stuck with The Old Goat now. No more hot cock for you.

Go buy a foot-long Chorizo and remember times past.

MTS dreams she was on the same level as Zimmer, Slezak, Lucci etc.

I agree that RHOBH has suffered since Eileen left. Eileen was an avatar for the audience. She was not the housewife we expected to bring drama, she was the housewife we expected to provide a contrast and remind everyone what sanity looks like. She should be invited to return.

R462, it probably did serve the show having here there, but Eileen was also so smart. She never did anything that can be played on a clip show that will make her look like an idiot.

I can't imagine what Bill Bell would have thought of reality TV.

The best commentary I ever saw on Reality TV was 30 Rock spoofing it. Jane Krakowski was dressed up in an evening gown and kept walking around saying: "I'm ready to throw my drink at someone now."

When Queen Chrissy flew into Crimson Lights all wound up and anxious to talk to Alpha Top Rey about Chelsea, I was half-expecting Rey to laugh, "Whoa! Settle down, Mary!"

Then, the first commercial break came, and they ran the BOTOX® ad where the older gay guy whose husband died has finally decided to go out and try to find love again, so treatments are in order.

Looks like CBS Daytime is trying to appeal to a big chunk of their remaining soap opera audience.

[quote] Looks like CBS Daytime is trying to appeal to a big chunk of their remaining soap opera audience.

Invalids in care homes?

R465 No, they're the other big chunk of the audience who are supposed to ask their doctor about the prescription medicines featured in every other commercial shown.

Summer of 1989, I think, Jack wanted to marry Nikki; in turn, he'd give her up provided Victor sold back his Jabot stock to the family.

Jack was DRIVEN to make this happen to get his father's company back. Jack loved his dad.

Jack's first step was to ruin Nikki's current relationship with Jim, Cricket and Scott's dad. Victor and Nikki were having an obligatory dance at Scot and Lauren's wedding. Jack pays a maitre'd (sp?) a whopping TEN BUCKS to play the song on the cassette he handed him next.

Victor asks for another dance; Nikki says no. Then...the song Jack arranged to be played plays...it's the Ice Castles theme, which they played at Victor and Nikki's wedding. She can't resist. She's still holding the bouquet that Lauren threw. They're both caught up in the sweeping romance of it all.

They dance.

Victor kisses Nikki; she kisses back; realizing what she's done, she runs out of the room; Jack's gloating; Jim has re-entered the room and tells Victor he was out of line.

All that in ONE episode.

Now, we have Kyle and Summer, exes, re-engaged, but he's the dad to a kid birthed by the Hope mannequin's cousin. Does Tara want Kyle? Who knows. Why did Kyle keep the affair he had a secret for so long from Summer? Are we invested in Kyle and Summer? No. No, we are not.

R467, I see that 1989 episode is seared into your memory.

[quote] Summer of 1989, I think.

It was a little later than that. LaBergman didn't make his grand entrance as Aunt Jack until November of that year. And Scott and Lauren had a Christmas wedding, because that's what pagans do.

[quote] Summer of 1989, I think, Jack wanted to marry Nikki;

I remember that episode as well - mostly because I had never heard the Theme from Ice Castles before, and I loved it.

Had La Bergman taken over the role of Jack from Terry Lester by that point? I don't recall. TL was way better at playing scheming Jack than prissy Bergman.

R470 See R469.

[quote] TL was way better at playing scheming Jack than prissy Bergman.

Thirty-one years later, I still shake my head when the writers have LaBergman or some other character use the sobriquet, "Ole Smilin' Jack."

[quote] [R470] See [R469].

Oops! Thanks. RIP Terry Lester.

Interesting interview with Terry. He mentions homosexuality in soaps around the 2:00 mark. He had magnetism which I can’t say about Bergman. Bergman is also a good actor though.

[quote] Bergman is also a good actor though.

If you're a supporter of "Smell the fart" acting, then I suppose so.

Why anyone thought La Bergman would be a suitable replacement for Terry Lester I'll never understand.

"The role of Jack Abbott will now be played by Aunt Cliff."

Terry Lester was a better Jack Abbott. Bergman was very wooden, although he has really nice, thick hair.

I think Bergman does well given the right material. He’s kind of irritating doing happy and content, but in his battles with Victor, Phyllis, Ashley, whoever he’s been great. Jack grew up when Bergman was given the role. You can’t be a cad and womanizer for nearly forty years. Bell probably would not have had Lester back if he had lived, considering Terry left claiming the show was turned over to Lauralee. True to an extent.

R475 Miss Piggy likes to tell the story that she's the one who discovered PB, since she watched AMC and learned he'd been fired and told her husband, Ed Scott, that she thought he should replace Terry.

R478, was it true to an extent?

Sure, Cricket drove the young story, but Ashley's abortion, Sheila stealing Lauren's baby, Jack v Victor; Nikki pretending she was dying, Jill hiring Rex to woo Katherine -- none of those tales directly showcased Cricket.

The ratings went up in the late 80s. The show took the top spot in Dec. 88.

By 89, Cricket's mother was dying of AIDS and Cricket was raped. Those were two big stories but hardly the whole show.

R468, the episode if not the month, yes,

I forget Bergman was on until late summer/early fall on AMC; they gave Cliff and Nina and little Bobby a great write out.

Bergman gave some GREAT quotes to Digest; that went something like: "So when Debbi Morgan quits to move out to LA to join Generations, she's betrayed the family, but when I get fired after 10 years -- by a writer who's been here six months and she can't write for Jack -- I'm to champion the party line of oh, it's not personal it's just business"

that's the gist; memory ain't that great!

can't write for "Cliff"

A few years ago, the Y&R company did one of those evenings at the Paley museum and a guy from the NY Times moderated it; he was okay; kind of fan boy ish for someone who writes for the NYT but he said to Bergman: "Peter, you've played the role for 25 years (or so) you've battled victor, bedded women, won Jabot back, done all these things...but we still call you in my house 'the new Jack..' "

Actress playing Tara is horrible! Why has the show not recast the role?

R474 Lester over Bergman any day, but geez, Peter's certainly not as bad as Drake "I smell a fart" Hogestyn.

early Drake was 'ok' and he was good in the Marlena (Hattie) right to die stuff

He picked up some bad habits early on and mostly kept them.

I'm still not sure what Bergman did to piss off Braeden so much that Braden beat his ass.

R487 Here's the January 1991 Soap Opera Weekly article written about the fight a couple of weeks after it occurred.

According to the police report, it sounds like LaBergman gave as good as he got, and the crew had to tear the two bitches apart.

^^^ Typo above. The report is from 1992, as the fight was in December 1991.

r489 fun fact I was on set that day. shut down production. I saw Peter, never saw Braeden. They sent him home.

[quote] I saw Peter

Was he curled up crying on his fainting couch?

"Learn your lines old man, stick to the script."

During the 00s I had a casual acquaintance who worked there for awhile, and she told me that Mel barked the same thing at him once, as she was walking off the set, refusing to waste any more of her time til he could play it the scene the way it was written.

Years ago on the Jossip website thread about Carolyn Hinsey being fired as editor of Soap Weekly, some insiders reported about what happened that day at Y&R.

LAPD was called to 7800 Beverly Blvd. but the security guard would not let them on the property per the instructions of Y&R's then PR guy Frank Tobin. Finally, when the LAPD did get on the lot, Tobin hid Eric Braeden in a back hallway at the studio so the police couldn't find him to arrest him for assault and battery.

r493 that is not true at all. Tobin was not on set that day. Tobin did not handle Y&R Charles Sherman did, his associate. Tobin oversaw the agency. HInsey hated Bell and Tobin. She was writing an obit for Doug Marland and wanted quotes from the big producers. She asked Tobin to get her one and Bell responded "I never met Doug Marland, so I would not feel right giving a quote it would feel disingenuous," Hinsey threw a fit and told Tobin and made some shitty comment about when Bell dies.

I was on set that day. Bergman was in his dressing room, Braeden knocked on the door, Bergman opened it up and Braeden sucker punched him.

[quote] I was on set that day. Bergman was in his dressing room, Braeden knocked on the door, Bergman opened it up and Braeden sucker punched him.

This makes me like Braeden a little more. Well done, Eric!

What did Bergman do? Shriek and throw himself on the floor?

r495 - word spread fast. Peter had every intention of going after Braden to return the favor but Producers and legal were in his room fast. Since it happened on CBS property it was beyond the Bells. Peter was pretty much given whatever he wanted to drop it as long as Eric could stay. They made Braden apologize which Bergman knew was harder on him than getting arrested.

R496 the article stated Eric sustained bruising and lacerations. So Peter got his licks into. Or is this just bs?

I've often wondered how Braeden and Bergman have managed to work together since then.

R498 it was thirty years ago. Which is really a lifetime ago. The steady paychecks and being on the number 1 soap have a way of smoothing things over. Even though today they are just coasting until the show ends.

Bergman was angry that Braeden didn't have his lines memorized, IIRC.

I saw them together once drinking together at the bar at Maggiano’s with other cast members. About 15 years ago. Maggianos is right next to the lot where the show tapes. They appeared very friendly and Bergman called Braeden ‘E’. Braden drank tequila shots which I thought was weird as they were clearly waiting for a table. There were probably 10 - 12 cast members there. I remember Doug Davidson and Michelle Stafford were there. I lived near the Grove at the time and ate dinner at the bar there regularly.

r497 As far as I remember it was Braeden hitting Bergman. If Eric had bruising, it was probably in him falling. He knocked Bergman on his ass. Yes it was over now knowing his lines. Bergman was a consummate pro who memorized his lines. Braeden uses cue cards which is why you see him looking off into space and mumbling. Y&R tapes morning and afternoons with a split in the day. Bargman was on both schedules and Braeden was screwing up as usual making taping run long. Bergman left the set when done telling Braeden to learn his lines and walked off.

R497, Peter got his licks in; if he hadn't, Eric would have killed him.

R498, Peter has three emmys and a bunch of noms for a reason.

Imagine, one of your coworkers tries to kill you and the reaction from everyone around you is 'oh, THEY had a fight' and 'THEY don't get along'

Peter realized no one was going to take his side; he comes in, does his work, takes the check (which I hear is $1 more per episode than Braeden's and has been since the fight) and lives his life, enjoys his family.

I'm curious of any gag order gets lifted after Braeden dies; he's 80; not going to live forever.

I wonder if Peter will go on the record and say how he really felt about what went down.

Speakng of Hinsey and Digest, I can't believe how far that mag has fallen; the Internet and then social media really killed it. Everything in there is a week old or more when you get it; if news breaks on the day they close the issue and they can't get it in, then it's another two weeks before they have it and by then, everyone's forgotten about it.

That mag went from being the bible of the industry to the pamphlet of soaps.

It was over getting THE LAST LINE in the scene. Braeden was pissed when Aunt Jack said a line not in the script.

Isn’t it in Braedens contract that he gets the last line and he has script approval to a degree? If it was up to Eric, Victor would get away with everything and never be called on or put in jail for his bs. Even though there have been a few times when Victors ass was in jail. The preposterous Marco storyline was the last time. There was such an uproar with viewers who thought what he did was the worst with that and he got his comeuppance albeit temporarily. I guess some writing and producing regimes have the balls to stand up to him.

Mal Young scripted a fight scene where JT Hellstrom got to push The Old Goat down a flight of stairs.

Don't break a hip Hans.

Oh NOOOOOO! .. Hot Daddy Ashland only has six-months to live.

Small Cell Lung Cancer.

Can we at least get a second opinion with a complete physical exam, stripped down to his Jockey Sport Briefs?

Hmmm...the most manipulative person I ever knew lied and told me he had leukemia to get me to fall in love with him, move in with him, etc. Would Ashland pull something like this? Does he want Tara back? Is this a plot to take possession of Harrison?

I see Pride Month is in full swing.

Having Hot Alpha Top "Danny" use his kid "KJ" to flirt with JaBottom in the park was a nice surprise.

And two guys using "play dates" with their kids to hook-up could be a unique Summer arc.

Eric Braeden was a colossal asshole, I did my internship there at Y&R. One of our jobs was to go around to the actor's dressing rooms and get scripts signed for charity events. It was usually a stack. Eric was in that day and everyone on the cast was always so nice about it because it was for charity. I go down to his dressing room and knock on the door. We were instructed if they were not there, leave the sciprts with a note to call you when they are done signing them After I knock I hear "COME IN" shit. Eric is in there. I go in with my arm full of scripts and he screams at me. "GET THE HELL OUT OF MY DRESSING ROOM" he calls security and tells them there is a fan on the set. Mind you, he knows me. I have been to his house three times to drop off scripts. The third time he asked me why they never send any pretty girls to do it? I made some joke about I am the prettiest girl we got up there...he laughed and hit my shoulder. But now....he called security, then the production office just as I am coming back up. The person who oversees us said "what the fuck happened. Eric wants you fired." I told him 'I knoocked on the door, he siad come in then screamed at me to get the hell out of his dressing room." Braeden insisted I never knocked I just came in and with the scripts in my arms he thought I was a fan...all of it a lie. Lucky for me..one of the associate producers liked me. She stood up for me. Cooler heads prevailed but I never volunteered to drive out to the Palisades again to drop off his scripts. Fuck him. Peter was nice to me and when he found out about the Braeden thing he came to me and said "don't worry my friend, at least he didn't hit you," and laughed. He was so fucking cool about it.

that sounds like Peter.

Apparently, he has a history of welcoming newbies.

In today's episode, you could see Amanda's thong under her light blue dress .. lol! .. Now, could we get Adam free-balling in some grey sweat pants?

And speaking of wardrobe, a gay guy must've chosen that tight shirt for Jordi to wear. .. Miami-bound Rey looks like he's ready to check-in at Hotel Gaythering.

Geez - How many times have we heard this exact same conversation about Sutton's legal "strategy" in this made-up court case? .. The only family "scandal" that might be slightly interesting is if we learned closet-case politician, Sutton, had been on the downlow with Rentboy Richard, Naya's murdered, bisexual babydaddy.

Okay, instead of hosting a stuff-your-face pizza party, Billy needs to think about putting "little" Johnny on a diet.

EB's "cue cards" are so obviously on Victor's cell phone and tablet these days. .. Oh well, Hans is 80 (82), so I can see why this might be necessary now.

And finally .. What time is it? .. In New York, we've got Ashland & Victoria saying "Goodnight" and "Sleep well", and there appears to be moonlight outside the windows. .. An hour away in Genoa City, it looks like high noon.

Back in Bill Bell's day, some characters would be out having dinner while another couple would be getting ready for bed while Jill was at Jabot up to no good and you know what? Nobody cared or matter because the stories and characters were captivating and compelling.

We notice all the stupid shit because the stories are so bad.

Could Ashland and Tara be in cahoots to infiltrate both Newman and Jabot?

Does the show think this far ahead? Probably not.

Ashland is the worst name. It sounds like something from one of those dreadful movies or miniseries back when ripping off Gone with the Wind was a thing.

[quote] Could Ashland and Tara be in cahoots to infiltrate both Newman and Jabot? Does the show think this far ahead? Probably not.

I've been thinking along these lines, too. I keep expecting Tara to whip out her phone and send a secret text to someone. And there have been numerous times she's been alone in the Abbott LR, but so far, nothing.

The show's only secret seems to be whatever Amanda's grandfather is hiding.

Ashland, well, that's another story. We only know he's "dying" because he says so. We did not accompany him to his doctor appointment. Maybe he's faking it, maybe not. I was curious as to why he hesitated to do for Sally what he'd promised until she came and nagged him about it.

The show's only secret seems to be whatever Amanda's grandfather is hiding.

It's been hinted that Tara's got some kind of secret as well.

She seemed edgy when queried about whether there was anything else besides the incident where Harrison was injured and Ashland accused her of neglect.

And there was also that conversation where she mentioned an estranged brother.

Victor v. Matt

"You're a cocky little bastard, aren't you?" [12;26]

LOL!

I wonder if Josh Morrow and Eddie Cibrian are still good friends?

Their boy band was one of the worst of all time. While they’re undeniably both gorgeous, neither could sing a lick.

Eddie sounds as if he could lick a dick, however, r520.

The third guy that nobody cared about was supposed to be the actual musician-singer of 3Deep. I think he's still some kind of talent manager up in Toronto and was doing something with a kpop band.

That 3 deep song was SNL level bad.

I think once Eddie split from his wife, the reality 'star', that was it for him and Joshua; wives don't like to see their husbands hang with guys who walked out on their wife and kids.

Jesus Christ, that video @r520 may be the cringest thing I've seen on the internet.

Nikki mentions that she’s going to Florence, Italy to see Leslie Brooks perform.

When she goes backstage to greet her long-ago wedding guest, they should have her coincidentally run into her grandson, NuNoah, and learn that he and Leslie's son, Brooks Prentiss, are now fucking.

Joshua Morrow became born again.

Nelson Branco is dropping details about an incident with Doug Davidson. He reveals his name in the discussion.

Have you read that Twitter feed? Wow. What a lot of nothing to say.

R528 Old news. Like 8 years old.

Back when it happened, Branco named names and detailed the entire incident in his column/newsletter.

I remember he even had a quote from his 'buddy' Chrissy -- who was said to be at the table and a direct eyewitness to the alleged assault -- saying something akin to 'What happens at the Emmys stays at the Emmys' -- implying that those associated with Y&R would close ranks and not blab on Dougie. (He didn't deny it happened, though.)

What exactly prompted Davidson to go for his throat? And why didn’t Branco press charges?

I wasn't there and I don't deny that Doug Davidson has a reputation for being a bit unstable, but if Doug attached him, it was because Nelson did something to provoke him.

Likely Nellie made one of his many snarky remarks, but whatever it was, it did not happen in a vacuum. Nelson is not totally innocent.

R531 It sounded like Branco was being a bitchy pest.

Dougie had just won the Outstanding Lead Actor Daytime Emmy. They were out celebrating at the Hilton, and they were sitting at the same table. Branco was apparently going on and on about how great Muhney had been that year. .. Apparently, Dougie got sooooo pissed off that he eventually had enough and lunged across the table and started choking him.

(I might guess alcohol was involved .. lol.)

Anyway, Branco said it was captured on the hotel's video, but they would only release it if formal charges were filed with the police with the tape subpoenaed by the district attorney. I believe Branco said he eventually decided not to do that, because he's a foreign national (Canadian) and it might have affected his ability to travel to the U.S. at will and/or his access to other soap opera actors for his then-job. Something along those lines. From what I recall Dougie never responded; in other words no denial. And what Chrissy said seemed to at least validate that something had happened.

R533 thanks. I guess Davidson really was insecure about Muhney. Wtf? Davidson won the Emmy, not Michael. Or maybe Branco was going on and on and wouldn’t stop. I would’ve asked him to leave or I would’ve left first if I were Doug one or the other.

Not sure it was at a table per se, but maybe at a bar after the show; what would Nellie be doing inside the ballroom at the show?

I abhor violence. I did hear Nelson kept repeating that "But Michael Muhney is the best actor" and the first couple of times Doug said, "well...but I won!" and Nellie would. not. let. it go.

Sure, Doug should have handled it differently. It marred his big win. The actors socialize with Nelson even though he trashes them. They should have snubbed him years ago.

It's all pretty ironic as the best actor that year was Jason Thompson as Patrick on GH also nominated.

also, Nellie's twitter bio reads "RT's and likes do not equal endorsements."

WTF?

actors are hung out to dry all the time if they like or retweet something; but HIS rt's and likes don't equal endorsements.

Since DD appears to have left the show now, I wonder if he'll eventually respond with a dweet at some point?

NB is still egging him on.

[quote] what would Nellie be doing inside the ballroom at the show?

From what I recall, in the original story I think NB wrote that they were at an after party at The Hilton. He made mention of the people who were at the same table. Besides himself and DD, the two I remember are Chrissy and DD's wife.

[quote] a violent hair model who never deserved an Emmy.

Say what you will about Nellie Branco, but this line was bitchtastic.

Doesn't Nellie seem the sort who most people would want to throttle?

Sounds like Branco had it out for Davidson at the Emmys that year. Nellie knows how the Emmys work. Sometimes they get it right. A lot of times they don’t. Didn’t Davidson win with the clip where Ricky dies? Good reel if it was. But I’m partial to Muhney as Adam and he had a lot of great material. Doug took the bait instead of ignoring him.

There's a lot of things wrong about Branco, but one thing he should probably be credited for is lifting the veil to show that Y&R is the most dysfunctional soap ever.

R542, not so fast Von Ryan

NB was totally right about DD. Lousy actor. Ass kisser Extraordinaire.

That is way out of character for Doug. I was at a party on set with the cast and this girl I knew was drunk and blatantly hitting on Doug who easily could have taken her and fucked her in his dressing room. Doug looked at me and mouthed "help me." And this girl was model beautiful. I got her out of there and he sought me out later to thank me. Good guy, very even-tempered. At least he was.

[quote] That is way out of character for Doug. I was at a party on set with the cast and this girl I knew was drunk and blatantly hitting on Doug who easily could have taken her and fucked her in his dressing room. Doug looked at me and mouthed "help me." And this girl was model beautiful. I got her out of there and he sought me out later to thank me. Good guy, very even-tempered. At least he was.

But he wears someone else's hair. Unforgivable.

r546 yeah his toup might be older than me, but still a good dude if not a bit simple.

I had a different impression of DD when I encountered him; admittedly, it was just ONE time, so maybe he was having an off night or something .. lol. .. Anyway, he was behaving like a LOUD buffoon. He acted 'lit' and just wouldn't shut up. Lauralee Bell was there (as well as Lee and Bill), and a couple of times, she appeared to cast daggers his directions like, 'Stop, you idiot, you're embarrassing yourself!' .. My guess was he was trying to be funny, but he came off overly juvenile. .. Of the 15 or so Y&R actors I met, I remember thinking he was the big surprise.

R548 under what circumstances did you meet him?

What I dont' get is if Doug wants to act, then he can take the money he made on Y&R, build a theater and do plays.

He can do love letters and invite all his leading laides over the years to do it with him.

He can charge next to nothing and donate any proceeds (after his costs) to charity.

Eventually, a regime will come in to Y&R and want to throw him a few dates.

R549 It was at an anniversary reception for the show.

R548, if Bill was alive, then we're talking pre-2005. he was still making party appearances in 2003, which was the show's 30th anniversary.

I'm sorry to say that you didn't catch Doug on an off night. He's got this manic energy that definitely reads buffoonish.

He was traveling in Europe pre-covid and riding an elevator named (not Otis) but Schindler. He said on a video on social; "it's Schindler's [italic] Lift [/italic] ."

OMG, I thought. That's so not funny. You can't make a pun out of a holocaust movie. Well, Doug did I guess.

The incident with Nellie was a perfect storm. It's Nellie's OPINION that Muhney should have won. I mean...maybe, but if Kimberlin Brown never won an Emmy for playing a myopic psycho why should Muhney?

Actors are used to being coddled and fawned over and they can't take the least bit of criticism. There were ten different ways to handle Nellie prattling on and on and on and on and on about Muhney (if that's what happened); Doug's a big guy and Nellie's no Pierson Fode in terms of size.

I can just picture Doug grabbing him and saying BUT I WON...and Nellie being stunned. He's written that Doug's co-stars including Stafford had no reaction of support for him. Just like let Doug be Doug.

And that should have turned him off from ever wanting to hang with these people ever again. What did he think Doug was going to say, 'Yeah, I'm going to bring this Emmy to the studio on Monday and give it to Michael.'

[quote] He's written that Doug's co-stars including Stafford had no reaction of support for him.

Yeah, and I think The Stafford had problems of her own that night .. LOL! (photo) .. and at that point in time, she was probably like, "Fuck this mess, I'm outta here."

Recall, the alleged Daytime Emmy incident occurred June 16, and Michelle's *shock* exit from Y&R had already been announced a month before that in May. She taped her final Y&R episode just three days after the Emmy event.

I'm guessing when she ignored Nellie, she was probably on a mission to crash the GH party and hit Frank up for job. .. No time to get involved in Nellie's little melodrama; she had business to take care of. .. Moreover, they probably didn't like him over at GH either, even though he more than likely reported that "Valentini' means "hung like a horse" in Italian.

From his message and hashtags, Chrissy seems to be suggesting that his straight-dudebro, improv-buddy, Sean Carrigan, might be making a re-appearance.

Anyway, I could see that return, since the whole Abby surrogacy story minus husband Chance is downright pitiful. .. Recall Abby & Ben-Stich used to be married and most of their end story had to do with whether they'd try to have another baby or not after his son Max, caused her to miscarry. .. Plus, the character was originally created by Josh Griffith.

R553 it’s been confirmed Carrigan is returning. We need some more hot ass on the show besides JaBottom.

With Summer calling it quits, JaBottom appears to be freakin' out that he's about to lose his beard! .. Even if he picked up with Ol' Tara, that would come off like Hugh Jackman and his wife.

I'd like to see Naya and Nikki in the same room at the same time so they could have a Snooty-Snob Pose Showdown.

What the hell is Sphyllis wearing? .. It's daytime, and she looks like she's ready to go clubbing .. in NYC .. during the Reagan Administration.

Gee, it's going on July, and they still haven't put up a swimming pool set? .. If Y&R is that broke, then the least they could do is buy a couple of exercise mats and have some of the guys do half-naked yoga in Chancellor Park. .. I'm sure Kay would be pleased.

Detective Denise says she was able to access a "cell phone" record from the 80s when Amanda was born. ... LMAO. .. Even if Richard made the call to Naya from his landline, such records were only retained for about 7 years. .. I also wonder what big "brick" phone Naya was using back then?

Christian LeBlanc has finally come out publicly.

r556 good lord was he under the impression anyone thought he was straight?

R557 Apparently he must still hear from "Likey" fraus who think he and Tracey Bregman are (or should be) a thing in real life. .. LOL

R557, why is it that it's always 'oh, honey, we all KNEW you were gay' or 'why don't they come out???'

it seems like a guy can't win

R559 Well, in his case he's been out among family, friends, and co-workers for what seems like forever, and he's become more glass closet ever since his Charles Nelson Reilly Daytime Emmy Acceptance Speech. And just observing his social media, things have really become far more noticeable ever since his episodes on Y&R got reduced to the bare minimum in 2020. Helen Keller would probably be able to figure this out.

Congrats Marla Adams for your first Emmy win in a 60 year career!

Has Brenda commented on her part in Marla's win?

"Yes, mummy was here." .. lol!

Geez - Daytime Emmys fucked up the "In Memoriam" segment for Real Mamie and put Marguerite Ray's name up on the big screen with a photo of Faux Mamie, Veronica Redd.

R563 lol I noticed. Plus Perry Botkin, composer of the YR theme, became Perry Blotkin in the segment.

This is the Daytime Emmy's. What can you expect?

In 2014 when they were showing clips of the Best Younger Actor nominees, they announced Chandler Massey's name and showed a clip of Guy Wilson's work.

I thought the Chan Stans claimed that the "erroneous" clip of Strudel was provided by DOOL and done on purpose. I can kinda understand that idea, because usually the Emmy folks use something from the reel that the actor himself already submitted during the nomination process.

when Genie Francis won for Supporting in 2007 production played the B&B them; her presenters were B&B actors; maybe that was where it happened.

I don't have the news item in front of me, but other sites are reporting that SOD is reporting that both Hunter King and JaBottom have hit contract snags and are OUT ... at least for the time being ... prompting Summer's recent exit to Italy, with him soon to follow.

It's about time we get a NuNuNuNuKyle. Seems they only last a couple of years.. lol

I read somewhere online that Hunter King is making or has made a pilot episode of some kind of Western, and that's why she's taking the time off from Y&R. If it gets picked up, Summer's staying in Milan. If not, she can be the one to speak up as the priest asks "Does anyone know why this man and woman should not be joined as one?" at Kyle and Tara's wedding.

That 2020 ABC-ordered sit-com pilot is not on the network's 2021 Fall schedule and has since been re-classified a "TV Movie" at IMDb.

So Nikki Newman is still toddling 'round town in that red sequin number that accents her BUTT? ... She looks like she's auditioning to be the new stop light at the town's railroad crossing.

And related to that .. Are 80-year old multi-billionaires really sitting around Starbucks at 10 o'clock at night? .. Wouldn't they have their very own manservant and espresso machine back home?

Okay, Jason Thompson shirtless is almost on the same level of excitement as Aunt Jack shirtless.

JaBottom remembering some of "the crazy things" he did back in NY that he'd "rather forget" ??? .. They should think about exploring that a bit. .. I'm reminded that Camp Cockyboys is NY.

Gee, the actress who plays Tara is just soooooo entirely lifeless. .. Maybe Morina & Griffith should see if Brad Bell will loan them one of B&B's COVID mannequins to replace her so they can save some money.

The pregnant lesbian story hour is mind-numbingly boring. .. Can we SORAS this pregnancy? .. I think Jill had Billy in five months.

And seeing a clip of Syphyllis overacting in the preview doesn't really make me want to tune in next week.

r571 Jill had billy, sent him away and he came back fully grown in 2 years. Victoria and Nicholas were kids for a bit longer on the screen to make Victor not look sub-human but bam they grew up too. The funny part is Nina had her baby with Phillip around the same time but Nicholas showed up as a teen while Nina's was still a toddler.

R572 Billy was in Genoa City until he was around 7 going on 8.

Born in 1993, they did a mini-SORAS of Billy when they hired 6-year old Scotty Leavenworth to play him in 1996. Leavenworth appeared as Billy for a couple of years. He got caught up in the John-Jill divorce, with the usual soap opera custody issues. As I recall, Jill even him took Leavenworth's Billy with her when she decided to move into the Dennison house (with Keith, Tricia, and Megan). She granted John's request to let Billy go to NYC with him when John opted to move there in mid-1998. Billy was having "behavioral" problems at summer camp, and John wanted to enroll him in a special school in NY.

Jason's untoned hair chest and okay arms almost make me long for Billy Miller's barrel chest and man boobs

Almost.

Seriously, I'd take Miller back if it meant that Jason would go back to GH.

I’d wish Billy would come back to. Jason Thompson was better as fuck up Billy than content Billy.

Jason Thompson, who seems like a very nice guy, (he’s a fellow Canadian, too), does absolutely nothing for me. He never has, even on GH.

Jason Thompson resembled William Gray Espy to a certain extent. He could have been a recast Chuckie Roulland.

Apparently, Y&R's budget has been cut again.

A 47-year old guy named "Chuckie" sounds horrible.

Who are you?

I'm Chuckie Roullard.

So who are you?

My father is Snapper.

And who is he?

Dr. Snapper Foster.

And who is that?

He was married to - oh, he's Jill's brother. She's my aunt.

And who is she?

Jill Atkinson.

And she is?

She was Jill Abbott.

Oh, yeah, that loud lady who comes to town every once in a while and calls people darlin'. So, wait, you're related to her how?

The only way "The Return of "Chuckie" might be interesting is if we had a hot NuPhillip on the scene (who can actually act), and he happened to run into "Cousin Chuck" at Club Rendezvous on gay night.

The pair would flirt, then decide that it was okay to go home and fuck, because Jill is no longer a Foster - meaning they're not actually bio-related. .. Plus, Fenmore - who'd be working as one of the club's Speedo-clad bartenders - would remind the twosome that, in Wisconsin, it's okay for cousins to fuck, as long as they can't procreate. .. Fen would then *wink* at Cousin Phillip, confirming his own taste for older men. (Paging bisexual Carmine, paging bisexual Carmine ....)

Starring Murray Bartlett as "NuPhillip" and Matt Wilkas as "Chuck', and of course, their smushname would be "Phuck."

R580 while GH can dig up Florence Grey and make it believable.

Is Chance coming back?

Bring Billy Miller back as Billy and make Jason Thompson into nuChance.

r584

He's a little too old for NuChance(and definitely too old for Billy) as it is... He should be Patrick on GH

I don't disagree, but I was trying to throw the guy a bone. In a perfect world Billy Miller would be Billy and they would cast someone like Ryan Paevy as Chance. They could also recast Abby as well and end the stupid surrogate storyline.

Doesn’t Boredways hubby need the job? Just cast him back in the role and be done with it. He’s not that bad for an inconsequential role.

I think there's quite a few good candidates out there to play NuChance, but Jason Thompson is not one of them. I don't really see a role for him among the current cast of characters on Y&R.

R584 How--and more importantly--why would they do that?

[quote]why would they do that?

Honey, they're not going to do it. I was being flip, tongue in cheek. Bottom line, Jason Thompson is a lovely guy. He's just not Billy.

Y&R was not the greatest of all time. General Hospital expanded the scope of soaps beyond domestic, workplace, and hooker drama into a more cinematic action/adventure direction. The rest of the industry quickly attempted to copy this, and to create their own Luke and Laura style super couple.

It all went too far into ridiculous demonic possession, lost cities, spaceship to heaven directions, but General Hospital changed, and likely saved the entire genre. At least for a while.

Of course, that was a long time ago, but I remember all the kids in my neighborhood - boys and girls - taking a break at 2PM to go home and watch General Hospital, and then all meeting back up again afterward to continue outdoor activities.

Sorry 591 no soap was ever copied as much as Y&R. I have hated it for years because of Icktor and Miss Piggy, but those first 5 years were something to see. Style, lighting, music and acting were top notch.

either Phelps or Pratt -- both of whom worked with Jason at GH -- invited him over to take over for Burgess Jenkins who wasn't working out as Billy.

But in what universe did they think that Jason would make a good Billy.

Odd, that Tognoni was told to take a hike so Stafford could return but they're content to just like Jason play this role he isn't right for.

Now, anytime someone who's taken over a role gets sacked for the original it's called 'being Tognonied'

there were reviews of Y&R in the 1980s by either Schemering or LaGuardia (?) or Jon Kelly Genovese (sp?) that Y&R was the best; it broke all the rules but delivers...I think Schemering called it a summer beach novel; sit back and enjoy the ride.

Back then NOBODY cared that some characters would be at dinner, others at the office (Jabot), and others would be getting ready for bed.

You didn't care as long as the stories were good.

They're not anymore. Bill Bell must ve laughing from the grave and rolling over in it at the same time.

Gina T. I heard was offered Victoria after GL ended, but went back to OLTL. She would have been awesome as Victoria. That drab slab Heinle has the aura of a tablecloth.

[quote]It all went too far into ridiculous demonic possession, lost cities, spaceship to heaven directions

Those things were worse than an ice machine that would freeze the world? C'mon. You can't say that one saved the genre while those other things destroyed it. Those things existed because Gloria Monty had it snowing in August on GH. And to keep it on topic, Bill Bell wasn't immune to those types of outlandish stunts either.

[quote] Bottom line, Jason Thompson is a lovely guy. He's just not Billy.

Yeah, too bad. At least, having his Billy get with Lily (which actually started way back when Miller was in the role) is far more bearable than watching him with Boretoria. Added bonus, they finally saw fit to dump Cane.

Nikki must be buying her jewelry from Home Shopping Network. Those HUMONGOUS earrings were so gaudy and cheap looking. I guess she likes reminding people she used to be a stripper.

How much longer before MCE goes on her materinity leave? .. This "long goodbye" for The Con Artist from Myanmar has become interminable.

The show isn't doing their actresses' any favor by not spending the time to have the crew re-do their makeup for the different lighting that's used in the "outdoor" park scenes.

The kid who plays "Connor" can't act for shit ... and he hasn't gotten any better over time.

I just love seeing Nina sit around the Chancellor living room doing crossword puzzles .. ZZZzzz. .. Although, I suppose that's more interesting than another conversation with Boredway and Messa.

I understand wearing a muscle-T inside Crimson Lights, but they couldn't have hot, sweaty Rey running through the park shirtless?

Now that Adam lives on The Ranch when does barn sex with Sharon happen? .. I wonder if Cousins Faith & Connor will decide to go horseback riding that day?

not saying Jordi nixed a shirtless scene; in fact, I really don't know, but if I had his muscle tits and biceps I'd be walking into the GCPD shirtless

I think Jordi knows the daytime drill for soap hunks. He was doing shirtless scenes under Mal Young and over on DOOL that almost seemed of the gratuitous kind. Exercising in the park during summer would actually make some sense.