Theatre Gossip #418: The "If Barbara Harris Was Alive, Would She Join The March On Bway?" Edition

Broadway World finally reports on the event yesterday, after getting blasted on social media for ignoring it.

And issues at PRISCILLA QOTD in the UK.

Who actually marched yesterday who was ever in a show on Broadway??

Op, your thread title should read," If Barbara Harris were alive................" Contrary to fact - use the subjunctive.

So they had a list of demands. Big deal. Don't get what you want, someone else will be cast and you can go back to waiting tables. It's just that simple.

fuck. two 418 threads.

bump

Interesting, for those of us who never miss a Virginia Woolf musical.

^^ would rather die ^^

Hasn't there been an opera based on one of her novels?

Orlando

MRS. DALLOWAY could be musicalized, but it would probably work better as an opera.

Didn't someone musicalize THE HOURS ("inspired by" MRS. DALLOWAY)?

BAJOUR!

Barbara Harris would be doing great improvisations but otherwise would avoid publicity. Austin Pendleton said that he never saw anyone so unprepared and shook up by unexpected stardom as Barbara Harris was. She was mostly about doing the work.

I saw the original production of THE WAVES, I think it was at NY Theatre Workshop, and it was just beautiful.

What they should really musicalize is Albee’s play - retitled “Who’s Afraid?!” and featuring an ENORMOUS bottle of bourbon falling into the audience in the second act.

Opening number: “What a Dump”

Let the casting begin now!

Back in the day, Patti Lu and Kristy Dawn would have been shoo-ins.

Phyllis Newman got a Tony for almost being a "shoo-in".

Fuck Phyll.

[quote] Didn't someone musicalize THE HOURS ("inspired by" MRS. DALLOWAY)?

The Met has commissioned an opera of "The Hours" to star Renee Fleming, Kelli O'Hara and Joyce DiDonato. The composer is Kevin Putts, who wrote one of the better contemporary operas, "Silent Night."

Make that Kevin Puts.

Are idiots on social media going to continue to shame any actors who don't speak out about Rudin? What if they never worked with or encountered the man before?

Why did Barbara Harris drop out of the Midler GYPSY?

R23. Good taste?

Wasn't there some story about Midler bullying her or something or did I imagine that? Maybe she was giving Midler notes on how to not suck in the role. She should have listened.

[quote]Phyllis Newman got a Tony for almost being a "shoo-in".

And yet Phyllis merely had to do as Stella.

OP, who’s the big pile of shit at the Magic Mike open call?

The photo shows Fifth Avenue, not Broadway.

FOLLIES!

Barbara Harris as Rose in Gypsy. Too bad that never happened.

R3 Tons...most of them just didn’t post on social media for fear of retaliation. But you can spot lots of role originators and Tony winners in the pictures. Three of the speakers at the beginning were on Broadway within the last few years.

R31, I'm surprised to hear that any actual, bona-fide, working actors participated in this misguided event. I guess it was only the stupid ones.

I marched with a list of ridiculous demands at my place of employment. The bosses were not amused.

R32 Why were you surprised? Actors being known for their sound and rational judgement or something?

My mother was a fan of b harris. My parents saw her stuff in the 60’s. I played the apple tree ost a lot as a child. Future homo!

You didn't really initialize Original. Sound Track, r35, did you? I'd go into witness protection if I were you.

R36 get a life. Quick! it’s passing you by!

Who would Barbara Harris have played in Bette's 'Gypsy'?

One. of the strippers, I suspect. Dressy Tessie Tura?

I'm with r36. It's not that hard.

Barbara was cast as Tessie Tura and was replaced by Christine Ebersole who was originally to play Miss Cratchitt which ended up being played by Andrea Martin

Harris must have had quite a bit of excellent plastic surgery in her life. She barely ages through the years.

If you want to use the subjunctive move to Europe.

What about Julie Harris? What would have been her take?

Harris worked with the most brutal directors and producers on Broadway. She would have rolled her eyes.

Ethel Merman would have spit on all of them!

Bernie singing a Sondheim song I've never heard before.

Pauly G interview. Interesting to learn how Sondheim allowed Pauly G to not just MD, but also genuinely collaborate -- for example -- by adding lines of harmony and vocal arrangements to the Sunday score.

Sondheim wrote that for the movie “Reds,” r47. I think it was just used as underscoring, not sung with the lyric. In any event, the most impressive music in the film was “The Internationale,” which of course has nothing to do with Sondheim.

And also the title theme, no?

“The Internationale,” which of course has nothing to do with Sondheim."

But "The Internationale" IS the basis for the melody of GOODBYE FOR NOW, which, when slowed down, unfortunately sounds like I'LL BE HOME FOR CHRISTMAS.

Orchestrators add harmonies to a score as a matter of course. Tunick added the violin descant of SOMEONE IS WAITING to the final chorus of BEING ALIVE, for example, as well as the quote from Mahler's Fourth Symphony in THE LADIES WHO LUNCH.

Barbara Cook combined "One More Kiss" with "Goodbye for Now" recorded when she was 79.

[quote]You didn't really initialize Original. Sound Track, [R35], did you? I'd go into witness protection if I were you.

Initializing is a far lesser sin than calling it a soundtrack.

To Jesus, a sin is a sin.

Babs covered it on The Movie Album, also R47. It's quite lovely - and one of the rare tracks on that album which hasn't been cloyingly orchestrated to fuck.

The best version is Sondheim's at the piano. I think it's in the soundtrack as "Marriage Proposal" but I could be wrong about this. There's a story in the SS lyric book that he sent a tape to Beatty just to show what he'd written, and Beatty was so moved by it that he used it, with an orchestral track.

Why the fuck is this thread the one everyone is on? It was done two hours after the correct one? (And the thread title sucks.)

This is the only one that comes up in search. Got a link? Post it.

Here

The other #418 comes up in a search if you type "theater" instead of DL's usual "theatre." So, no, R57, the one that was done two hours earlier is not in the "correct" format.

Prisspot

Who’s the frau whining about which thread we post it?

Fuck off and stop telling us what to do, cunt.

R62 The OP of the other thread of course, whining no-one's playing in his thread.

If my thread hadn't been first and hadn't had two hours worth of posts prior to this thread being started, then I wouldn't say anything. But some asshole went on there and said THIS ISN'T THE CORRECT THREAD. EVERYONE POST ON THIS THREAD. So blame him.

Your post doesn't come up in the search because you spelled theatre with an "-er."

Try stamping your little foot, r64. That usually gets people to do what you want them to.

Girls, girls! You're all tedious.

R54 Jesus ain’t here.

[quote]Jesus ain’t here.

Was he involved in the protest march?

R69 He was taking a moment to gather his thoughts before commenting.

Aghhhh! Sorry, but using soundtrack for cast recording is just one of my major pet peeves. I don't know why...it just is.

I think Miss Callaway's version is the best...

For me: Cook, Callaway, Peters, Streisand.

[quote]Your post doesn't come up in the search because you spelled theatre with an "-er."

Careful, R65. You'll be called a "prisspot" just as I was.

Barbara Harris would have probably stolen the entire movie from Midler with her few brief scenes if she's stayed on. She'd have been brilliant and hilarious. Still, I'd have rather seen her as Rose. A kooky Rose would be interesting. Did Angela Lansbury play Rose as a bit kooky?

"What they should really musicalize is Albee’s play...Let the casting begin!"

Done.

[quote]Did Angela Lansbury play Rose as a bit kooky?

A bit daft at times, maybe, but not as though she were warming up for "Death on the Nile."

I vote for Tierney Sutton in the "Goodbye for Now" sweepstakes.

One of my favorites from Miss Harris...

Just stumbled across this recording of Mandy Patinkin recording SOUTH PACIFIC with Tunick conducting. Boy, he really believes his shit doesn't stink. So much directing to so little effect!

What is Mandy like nowadays? Has he mellowed?

My favorite awful Mandy recordings are a Man of La Mancha with a miscast Placido Domingo in the lead and Mandy doing his impression of the Frito Bandito as Sancho. And Mandy’s version of The Music Man’s “Ya Got Trouble” on one of his solo albums is hilariously overwrought. He sounds like Harold Hill on crack.

Rudin is resigning from the Broadway League, so that march actually achieved one of its goals

Forbidden Broadway does Mandy

R84 - That remains one of my FAVORITE things Forbidden Broadway has ever done. Kevin Ligon NAILS even Mandy-ism.

Also, I feel like we need to revive "The Nastiest Person on Broadway" thread for a part three. The dish in the first two were the stuff of DL legend. Part One:

Anyone else watch the National Theatre's Romeo & Juliet on PBS Friday night? There were some very nice things in it, but, my god, they cut so much of the language (it clocked in at around 90 minutes, not the usual 2 1/2 hours-plus). I'm far from a Shakespeare purist and think judicious editing serves many of the plays well (the recent Bridge Theatre's Midsummer is a fine example), but this filmed version cleanly hit all the plot points and left most everything else on the cutting room floor (shortest balcony scene ever!). All that said, it did make me want to see a fuller version of it with the same cast in a theatre. (Bonus points for making Mercutio and Benvolio lovers.)

[quote]Also, I feel like we need to revive "The Nastiest Person on Broadway" thread for a part three. The dish in the first two were the stuff of DL legend. Part One:

R86 - sounds juicy. 1200 posts is a lot to go through, though. Any particular names / keywords you recommend searching for to get the juiciest posts?

Did Alan Alda ever comment publicly on working with Barbara Harris? Besides co-starring in "The Apple Tree", he used her in "The Seduction of Joe Tynan" years later which he directed.

TSOJT

[quote] Careful, [R65]. You'll be called a "prisspot" just as I was.

Butcha ARE a Prisspot, R60, Y'are.

As revealed in that SOUTH PACIFIC recording clip, Patinkin is neurotic beyond words. And though his ridiculously affected and mannered performance style arguably works for certain roles and songs, it's ALL WRONG for "Younger Than Springtime," which is supposed to be a very straightforward, sincere love song sung by a normal, American boy, not by some mental patient.

[quote]What is Mandy like nowadays? Has he mellowed?

I did Wild Party with him, r81, when he was arguably at his craziest. Mamaloshen and An Evening with Patti LuPone and Mandy Patinkin. He does seem to have calmed a bit.

r93 - wait, seriously, you did The Wild Party on Broadway? Obviously, you don't need to reveal who you are, but can you tell us more about the experience. Did y'all look down on the Off Broadway version? How was Toni Collette? Are the stories of Mandy's emotionally abusive behavior to Toni and others accurate? Tell us about EARTHA!!

Fascinating to revisit the "Who's the Nastiest Person on Bway" threads. Part 1 is from 2010!

What's more alarming is to recognize a handful of my own posts on the thread. (I didn't have any great dish: mostly questions and a couple of nice things to say about actors I've met.)

Yes, I did, r94.

[quote]Did y'all look down on the Off Broadway version?

They weren't in competition with us. Some of us went to see it. In my opinion, they were both very worthy versions of a fascinating poem.

[quote]How was Toni Collette?

Extraordinary.

[quote]Are the stories of Mandy's emotionally abusive behavior to Toni and others accurate?

Yes. Whatever you've heard publicly? It was worse. He locked himself into his dressing room at one point. Shut down the entire production. This is common knowledge, though.

[quote]Tell us about EARTHA!!

Wish I could. She kept out of the fray and very much to herself. Very pleasant. Always acknowledged everyone. Bought little presents for people, arranged brunches and things like that. Seldom appeared at them.

Here's a TONY's taste of Broadway

Off Broadway

Ugh, it’s so depressing that The Wild Party (LaChiusa) will seldom if ever be performed again because of the black face. Do you think LaChiusa/Wolfe will rewrite it so it can be done without the blackface so it has a chance of being performed? Cancel culture sucks.

I don't think either version is likely to be a good candidate for revival. Wild Party is a tough sell.

The off-broadway WILD PARTY was brilliant. Great cast, great production. Saw it 4 times during its relatively short run.

Agree, r101.

I'm glad I worked on one of them. We lost Julia Murney too soon.

Apparently the trailer for the Spielberg West Side Story is premiering during the Oscars. Hopefully it will be up on YouTube after as the hostless Union Station Oscars don't sound very appealing.

Julia Murney isn't dead, R102.

Let's be frank. What could possibly top the movie version?

Should somebody check on Julia Murney?

Julia Murney was last seen working in Scott Rudin's office.

Julia Murney heaven below...

Toni Collette really does need to get back to Broadway. I still mourn that she wasn't allowed to play Sally in Cabaret due to some Equity issue I believe. She'd be a dream in a revival of Mame or Gypsy and probably clean up come awards season.

Toni can play anything. She’d make a wonderful Tevye.

The West Side Story poster is out, and the only interesting thing about it is that it doesn't list any of the actors. And Rita Moreno is an executive producer.

Ok, r104, r106, r107, r108, I deserved that. I conflated Julia Murney with Jan Maxwell. No idea why. Other than their initials, they didn't have much in common.

Jan's Elphaba was truly one for the ages!

Did Julia move into Jan's rent controlled apartment in Manhattan Plaza?

Decades' marathon this weekend is Mission:Impossible. Episode on right now...

I understand those MP apartments are surprisingly spacious, and a great deal for the price, R114.

[quote]Toni Collette really does need to get back to Broadway. I still mourn that she wasn't allowed to play Sally in Cabaret due to some Equity issue I believe.

Yes, and I mourn the fact that she lost out on the role of Roxie in the film of CHICAGO, apparently only because Renee Z. was considered a bigger star at the time. AND I mourn the fact that Toni also lost out on the role of Mrs. Lovett in the film of SWEENEY TODD, because.....well, we all know why that happened.

R105 - that looks so cheap compared to the sumptuous Merchant-Ivory films I associate with James Ivory.

The movie version of THE WILD PARTY is a mess. I saw it on TV years ago. Largely forgotten, and justifiably so.

I don't know if I'd call the film version of TWP cheap. It just doesn't have the sumptuous vistas and classic old architecture of most of Merchant Ivory's films.

And yes, it IS a mess.

You know what film of theirs I love, even though I recognize it as being terrible- Slaves of New York. I just love watching that movie. I'm sure it has to do with the fact that it was shot the first year I moved to the city and it reminds me of that, but I wish it would come out on blu ray.

Now THERE'S a musical waiting to happen: SLAVES OF NEW YORK!

Bernie can reprise her role as the wacky East Villager hat designer, looking for love and success in 1980s Manhattan.

Hey, if they did Bright Lights, Big City, why not MY opus?

I love how all the women in Slave of New York use the exact same make-up colors! Who knew there was only one make-up brand allowed in the East Village of the 80s?

Another really good Bernadette film with a really handsome Hugh Grant was "Impromptu" with Judy Davis play George Sand. It's rarely shown, though I recall enjoying it. I think Mandy Patinkin may have been in it without over-emoting for a change as well.

And directed by DL non-fave James Lapine.

And yes, Mandy was in it.

Well, why would they cast Bernadette Peters AND Madeline Potter unless they wanted to taunt Bernie with a younger version of herself.

Bernadette Peters looked (looks?) like a younger version of herself for many years. As Desiree in "A Little Night Music" 60+ Bernie looked in her 40s.

True. Bernie sure didn't look 40 in Slaves.

[quote] Bernie can reprise her role as the wacky East Villager hat designer, looking for love and success in 1980s Manhattan.

Exactly how many wacky hat designers looking for love and success in 1980s Manhattan has that woman played?

Lapine's wife wrote the screenplay, r125. Of course he directed it.

I remember seeing "Impromptu" in the the theater. When Mandy Patinkin's name came up on the screen in the opening credits, someone behind me actually hissed. They obviously were not a Mandy fan!

Whatever Bernadette has done to keep herself youthful has worked. She doesn't look like she's aged much at all since the 80's.

"which is supposed to be a very straightforward, sincere love song sung by a normal, American boy"

But it's not that at all. It's a song of joyous, liberating self-discovery by a Philadelphia blueblood.

The less said about either misbegotten Wild Party, the better.

My favorite freaky Mandy recording is from the studio cast recording of "Kismet" with Sam Ramey. In the original cast, this was performed by a woman. I used to blare this into the phone when I would receive telemarketer calls. He starts wailing around 00:24 seconds in......

The West Side Story teaser. You'd be forgiven for thinking Mike Faist is the lead in this, given he's shown far more times than poor old Ansel.

Have any of the protesters from the Scott Rudin march commented on the vandalism that occurred? What does spray painting things about the police on a 100 year old monument accomplish? Or have what exactly, to do with Scott Rudin?

Ansel is probably the reason why the cast isn’t billed on the poster. Leaving him off would be weird but including him might bring up his inappropriate behavior again. Mike Faist is nicer to look at anyway. I’m getting Richard Beymer vibes from Ansel.

So next year's Oscars could be "West Side Story" vs. "In the Heights"? Of course there would be other films in the mix but I assume this is the one us gays would care about most.

[quote]So next year's Oscars could be "West Side Story" vs. "In the Heights"?

More likely will be a battle in the Globes, where there is a separate category for musicals/comedies.

[quote]"which is supposed to be a very straightforward, sincere love song sung by a normal, American boy."

[quote]But it's not that at all. It's a song of joyous, liberating self-discovery by a Philadelphia blueblood.

Your description of "Younger than Springtime" is admittedly better than mine, but whatever it is, it's NOT the kind of song that meant to be sung in the horribly affected way that Mandy sang it.

I wonder if Rita sings “Somewhere” in the film, or if that was just for the trailer?

Was there any fallout from Anselmo having sex with the 17 year old?

this looks like it was a fun play

I think the WSS clips are swell.

I'm surprised at how much I liked the WSS trailer. Maybe I'm just in a misty, sentimental mood these days, but the last shot of the two leads on the fire escape hit me right in the heart.

It looks like Spielberg and company took a very traditional approach to WSS, with the exception of Rita Moreno and actually casting POC.

I hope it works. I would love to love it.

R136 Why are you trying to link the vandalism to the Broadway march, when the article itself says it was connected to a different protest?

[quote]The crowd was part of the Stonewall Protests, which gathers weekly outside the iconic Greenwich Village bar

R138 Dear Evan Hansen too. You know Marc Platt will splash the cash to at least get Ben a Golden Globes nomination.

Is there a category for Best Performance By A Precious 30-Something Actor Playing A Fragile Teenager?

I wasn't expecting to be moved in any way by the West Side Story trailer, but it's one of the best trailers I've ever seen in my life. Then again, I thought the trailer for Rob Marshall's Nine looked pretty great, too. How wrong I was there.

Oh god, NINE. I gave it another chance last year during lockdown.

Yup. It still sucks. It may be one of the dullest musicals ever made.

"movie musicals ever made" just to be clear.

I like a lot of the score on the OCR. It could/should have made a great movie. It's about MAKING MOVIES, after all.

Cameron Mackintosh defends his reducing the London Phantom orchestra size from 28 to 14:

"I've had a terrible year trying to keep on as many people as I can, but our job is to try to put a show on that can run and be brilliant...Am I sorry? I'm sorry they're upset, but I do find it odd why musicians would want to keep doing the same thing year after year. I believe we should not be holding jobs for actors or musicians ad infinitum. This is not the Civil Service, we're creating art."

Real classy, Cam. You wonder what ALW thinks about all of this. It sounded like they were at odds with one another earlier in the pandemic with what 'version' of the show would reopen. Now it's clear it's NOT the brilliant original. I wonder if the Prince estate has any input?

I don't know why it should have made a great movie, r152. On stage it was successful with its style over substance. Speaking for myself, I just really don't care about Guido and his angst. Nice score, though.

[quote] Nice score, though.

r154, maybe great music, but lousy lyrics, you rapscallion.

Maury Yeston can write gorgeous melodies--I think he's underrated/unappreciated as a composer. Some of the music in TITANIC is divine.

But as a lyricist? Oy.

Dit dit dot dit, r156!

It's no boom ditty boom, Maury.

[quote]Dit dit dot dit, [R156]!

Aw, c'mon, r157. That's a great song (The Proposal/The Night Was Alive).

Brian D'arcy James and Marty Moran:

Does Yeston have the opposite problem as Sondheim? Great melodies, but lousy lyrics. Maybe those two should collaborate on something. Although, I have to admit I'm a fan of Sondheim's music unlike many others.

I agree that Sondheim is a far better lyricist than composer, though I admire a lot of his music. He is the best living lyricist in theatre, IMHO.

I think some music theatre writers have no interest in collaborating on songs. Sondheim did it early on because the opportunities (WSS, GYPSY) were incredible for an untried writer. His other collab effort years later (DO I HEAR A WALTZ) was not a happy experience. I don't think Yeston's ever collaborated on a score.

"Boom Ditty Boom" is deceptive! I once worked on a production of 70, Girls, 70 and that song has a lot of little eccentricities that make it very difficult to teach and learn, especially for the elderly performers. The monotony of the lyrics make the actors go on mental autopilot, they get lost as to which verse they are in, and you wind up with a train wreck. "The Caper" and "See the Light" also are brutal, though the demands of those songs fall mostly on one performer, versus the entire cast like "Boom Ditty Boom."

Fine, r162, then let's just say that "Dit dit dot dit" is no " heeby deeby deeby deeby dee".

this is fun

[quote]Does Yeston have the opposite problem as Sondheim? Great melodies, but lousy lyrics. Maybe those two should collaborate on something. Although, I have to admit I'm a fan of Sondheim's music unlike many others.

[quote]I agree that Sondheim is a far better lyricist than composer.

Absolutely incredible that anyone could express such idiocy, especially at this point in Sondheim's life and career.

Fuck off, r163. Betty and Adolph were not responsible for the brilliance of "heeby deeby deeby deeby dee.”

I wish that Kander and Sondheim had collaborated after Ebb died. It might have been like Styne and Sondheim

r166 - Sorry Lee, please accept my Ba ba ba ba da bum.

I wonder why Bradley Cooper’s Bernstein biopic Maestro appears to be delayed.

Oh, the nights I longed to heeby deeby deeby deeby dee ...

r166 But were they responsible for THIS?

DEAN: Just in time

JUDY: A-doo-dee-doo-dee-doo-doo-doo

DEAN: You found me just in time

JUDY: A-doo-dee-doo-dee-doo-doo-doo

DEAN: Before you came my time

JUDY: A-doo-doo

The sack could play the Palladium, or even the Yankee Stadium ...

and Rin Tin Tin!

R172, the line is, "This act could play the Palladium....." Not "The sack...", you sad-sack.

That makes much, much more sense.

I got-cha,

You watch-a

Cha-cha.

It's 2021. Are we really still pretending Sondheim doesn't write beautiful music? The idea that he's a great lyricist and mediocre composer is just ridiculous.

Beautiful Sondheim melodies

Send in the Clowns No One is Alone Not While I’m Around Pretty Women Ah Miss Pretty Lady Unworthy of Your Love Losing My Mind In Buddy’s Eyes Too Many Mornings Finishing the Hat Hold On Sunday Agony

R178 is correct, this is definitely Sondheim’s best melody (and lyrics, as well)!

Great Sondheim melodies Not Ballad Edition

Comedy Tonight Broadway Baby Side by Side I'm Calm Saturday Night Chrysanthemum Tea

How breathtakingly arrogant of Cameron, R153. Sadly, I doubt the Prince estate has much control at this point.

I miss Anita's hot lavender dress!

R153 Reminds me of the time he hired an opera singer to play Valjean and then shit on musical theatre singers as "screechy" or something like that - you know, all those screechy voices which made him massively wealthy. No shock he's a Conservative.

Betty decided it needed fringe at the elbows, r182.

The only Sondheim melody to gain popularity is Send in the Clowns. Considering how prolific he has been under any standards that is pretty pathetic. You might argue that a melody can be beautiful and not be popular but dear god the man is a Broadway composer not somebody writing for graduate professors. One song to gain widespread enjoyment? No sorry but the man's lyrics are better than his music and there is absolutely nothing to say to prove it wrong. On Broadway the audience is always right. And has he had a commercial Broadway success since '73? Close to 50 years ago? Maybe Into The Woods?

^^ envious failed composer.

R185 Do you also think Bad Boys for Life was the best movie of 2020 because it made the most money?

Come on. To say his music is as good as his lyrics is a joke. It was said decades ago and it stands today.

Lack of commercial and popular success is no hallmark of artistic credibility, either.

Sweeney, FOLLIES, Company, Night Music get Broadway revivals. Hello Dolly has only gotten one and forget about MAME.

Sondheim's shows, even the flawed ones, are infinitely more interesting than just about anything else in musical theatre. Anyone who composed the music for something like Sweeney Todd knows what he's doing. That's one of the most beautiful scores ever to grace a Broadway stage.

What fascinates me most about his music, especially in that show, is that it always feels more like the underscore you'd find in a movie. I know he was very influenced by Bernard Hermann for Sweeney and you can tell.

r190

Hello Dolly has had a few revivals November 6, 1975 – December 28, 1975, Minskoff Theatre – Starring Pearl Bailey and Billy Daniels in an all-black production (42 performances)

March 5, 1978 – July 9, 1978, Lunt-Fontanne Theatre – Starring Carol Channing and Eddie Bracken (147 performances)

October 19, 1995 – January 28, 1996, Lunt-Fontanne Theatre – Starring Carol Channing and Jay Garner (116 performances)

April 20, 2017 – August 25, 2018, Shubert Theatre – Starring Bette Midler and David Hyde Pierce (550 performances)

and MAme had one as well in the 80s

I suppose I should have included those, r192. I didn't because I consider them more re-runs than major revivals.

Sondheim has been the ONLY true melodist--that is, elevated composed melodies--of note in the Broadway musical for the last 40 years. And that includes the wafer-thin and undistinguished efforts that have passed themselves off as "scores" on our stages, but in reality, have no more substance than a potato chip jingle.

There hasn't been a great new composer or composing team on Broadway in the past 20 years. Worst of all is Jason Robert Brown who has had nothing but a series of embarrassing flops.

Are we really arguing Jerry Herman v Sondheim? What is this, 1984?

[quote]I miss Anita's hot lavender dress!

Did you outgrow it? Maybe you can have Omar the Tentmaker make you a new one.

WHET Bryce Pinkham? He was more than competent in "Gentleman's Guide" and "Holiday Inn," but I think he had the misfortune to be overshadowed in both by more charismatic performers in showier roles.

Pinkham is doing something in London soon. I forget what exactly. He was terrific in Gentleman's Guide, but disappointing in everything else.

I was just contrasting the Broadway revival track record of a "hummable" composer and Sondheim, r196.

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 2011, "The Normal Heart" opened at the John Golden Theatre.

Wouldn't have been too many opportunities for Bryce to appear in a musical, even without a pandemic. Think he'd make a good Harold Hill.

Pinkham was very good indeed in a Carnegie Hall concert of "Of Thee I Sing", but the leading lady from "Natasha, Pierre and the Great Comet" couldn't hit the high soprano notes unfortunately. He was quite funny actually. "Gentlemen's Guide" had some nice songs, Also David Yazbek has written some very good songs in his scores, and many of the Lopez and Marx songs in "Avenue Q" are quite tuneful and fun. L-M Miranda's are rather over-rated, plus the rap ones are tuneful since rap hasn't tunes.

correction: rap songs aren't tuneful

Pinkham gave a master's class in turd-polishing opposite Elizabeth Moss and Jason Biggs in the revival of THE HEIDI CHRONICLES.

I guess we won't be seeing Sondheim's Buñuel, musical.

Not going to lie, R206, I initially assumed the worst.

The Heidi Chronicles revival was a mess. Terrible production of a good play.

"You aim for a Six..."

Sondheim himself pointed out aeons ago that one of the reasons his tunes don't catch on is that he doesn't repeat them till your ears bleed, as was the habit in the golden days of musicals, where you'd hear them in the overture, the entre'acte, probably twice during the course of the show and in a reprise at the end. Of course you came out humming the things.

That Send in the Clowns was a hit and Green Finch and Linnet Bird wasn't does NOT mean the latter is a worse tune than the (astonishingly overrated) former.

If you don't believe Sondheim can write beautiful music, you haven't listened to the ballet music for The Cookie Chase from Anyone Can Whistle

R185 is obviously too shockingly stupid to understand that one of the main reasons -- perhaps THE main reason -- why more of Sondheim's songs didn't gain mass popularity was that, except for ....FORUM, all of the shows for which he wrote both music and lyrics were produced well into the era when Broadway songs and Broadway-type songs ceased being the popular music of America.

Ahem.

[quote]HAMILTON achieved the largest first week sales for a digital cast album and is the highest-charting cast album since 1963. It was the highest-selling Broadway cast album of 2015 and peaked at number one on the Rap Albums chart, the first cast album to ever do so. After being certified seven times platinum by the RIAA in 2019, Hamilton became the best-selling cast album of all time.

And what R212 is obviously too shockingly fucking stupid to know is that there once was a musical called a Chorus Line which alone produced 2 hits and the album was played everywhere constantly.

What I Did For Love…and what other hit, R214?

One. People who know nothing about Broadway know this song. I don't know how they do because it wasn't covered but it has seeped into the subconscious of many.

And I don't even like the score to A Chorus Line but I adore the scores to Company and Pacific Overtures(gorgeous) and feel very fortunate to have to have seen the original productions. But Broadway is also about popular success and Sondheim is for cultists.

This is a stupid argument every time we have it. Box office success has never been the measure of art, and Sondheim lovers are claiming him as a great artist, not a great moneymaker.

The measure of Sondheim's genius is the combination of extreme high quality and extreme variety in his body of work. Who writes A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum and Sweeney Todd? Or Follies and Sunday in the Park with George? (Let alone all of them.) Who watches 1776 and comes back with Pacific Overtures? (Anyone who admires Hamilton's originality should think about that.) The level of originality and his capacity to carry off each individual endeavour is what nobody in the history of musical theatre writing can (or probably ever will) touch. Sure, book-writers work on the construction with him, but he uses several different ones and the shows still look like Sondheim musicals and nothing else. He is a one-man revolution in the field. The creators of A Chorus Line, Rent, Ragtime and Hamilton would all tell you so.

He has also written many beautiful songs, most of which are too contextualised for singers to want to cover, but honestly, whether his lyrics are better than his music is beside the point in relation to his contribution.

(Also, What I Did for Love is a pre-Sondheim throwback - a lovely melody with words than have virtually no meaning in the context of the show, unlike, say, Nothing or The Music and the Mirror. A cynic might think it was thrown in precisely because it would be easy to do as a cover.)

[quote]The measure of Sondheim's genius is the combination of extreme high quality and extreme variety in his body of work.

He makes it beautiful.

Well said, r217. There are many classical music scholars and critics who have written admiringly of his music apart from his lyrics. Seems to be a cottage industry on DL to insist that Sondheim is overrated or mediocre. Silly people.

Getting Gertie's Garter opened 100 years ago at the Belasco

I still have my Playbill, r220!

[quote]And what [R212] is obviously too shockingly fucking stupid to know is that there once was a musical called a Chorus Line which alone produced 2 hits and the album was played everywhere constantly.

As popular as "What I Did for Love?" was (and, to a far lesser extent, "One"), they were never mainstream, Top-40 pop hits of the type that would be played frequently on AM radio. I thought that was the kind of popularity we were discussing. If not, then lots of Sondheim songs became very popular by other measures -- for example, "Being Alive," "The Ladies Who Lunch," "I'm Still Here," "Send in the Clowns" (of course), "Not While I'm Around,," "Pretty Women," "Good Thing Going" and "Not a Day Goes By." Plus, you have to keep in mind that two things that someone else brought up above: "What I Did for Love?" was very much a throwback kind of song, specifically designed to become a pop hit (to its detriment, IMHO), and also, most of Sondheim's songs are written to specifically to work in the context of their shows that its less likely they can become pop hits out of context.

P.S. Go to hell :-)

Did anyone watch Finding Your Roots on PBS last night? The subjects were Audra and Mandy.

They both had to confront horror stories about their ancestors and Audra found a surprise kissin' cousin.

The context thing is one major reason why it's hard to cover many Sondheim songs. The Ladies Who Lunch, Losing My Mind, In Buddy's Eyes, etc. are all great songs, but they're far more effective being sung by the characters he wrote them for in the shows they came from. I believe Rose's Turn is the most brilliant theatre song of all time, but it's a bitch to try to sing that song out of context. Anyone who does usually has to give a brief summary of the show itself and where the character is before they do it and you can't always do that. If you don't do that, the song loses a lot of its power.

Sondheim has always been great about writing very specific songs for very specific characters. Send in the Clowns might have been a hit because there's nothing really specific in it. It's something everyone can relate to without having to have context of the scene that's come before it. I still find it much more effective in the show itself, but I've heard versions that work well by themselves.

Jerome Kern and Richard Rodgers are usually considered the two top melodists of musical theater. Sondheim himself picked Kern. In his book on composers, Alec Wilder chose Rodgers. It would have been interesting to see what Wilder might have thought of Sondheim's music.

"Richard Rodgers just pees melody."

Musically Jerome Kern, Richard Rodgers, Cole Porter and Gershwin are often stunning. Sondheim at his best is impressive. That is very far away from being stunning. The great pee music as Noel Coward was quoted as saying. Sondheim has to do a lot of heavy lifting and you can hear it. Coward was the same. Effortful.

Don’t forget Harold Arlen and Irving Berlin, R228.

Must everything be a competition?

Hamilton hitting that particular sales record take into consideration streaming plays counted as sales, so there needs to be a very large asterisk in front of the achievement. Very different than the cast albums for Cats, Les Mis, Phantom, that all hung around on the charts for years, and the ones from the golden days of cat albums, when such titles like West Side Story, My Fair Lady, South Pacific, and even Hair spent months at #1, but many of which have never been certified past Gold status just because their labels never bothered to play catch up after the other sales benchmarks had been introduced. Platinum status only came about in the mid-70s and multi-platinum several years after that. For years, both Tapestry and Dark Side of the Moon were stuck at Gold and Platinum, respectively, even though both had sold millions of copies each.

Yes R29.

Yes R229.

Is John Benjamin Hickey a good guy or a jerk? I'm watching an interview he's doing online with George C. Wolfe and he just referred to Viola Davis as "Vi," and I threw up a little.

However he has a smile that could melt butter.

Uggh. You answered your own question, R234.

He's a just-okay actor but the stories about his notorious ass-kissing and social climbing are a dealbreaker for most people. That, and his BFF status with Andy Cohen.

Shudder.

I can confirm everything r236 says. And I've known Hickey since 1991.

Nice cock & balls, though.

Sondheim out of context can lead to some awkwardness ...

Hickey was pretty terrific in his Tony-winning role in "The Normal Heart" and did a lot of nice eye-candy nudity on stage and film, going frontal in "Love! Valour! Compassion" on stage and film.

John Benjamin Phoney

Jesus, we have the "Sondheim's shows aren't very successful and he doesn't write great tunes" conversation every 6 months or so and it's so fucking stupid.

I think it's one moronic troll who starts it every time.

If I had a hammer, I'd use it on the "Sondheim isn't successful" Troll.

Ole Blue Eyes really sounds like shit at R239. Gack.

I am surprised "Good Thing Going" hasn't been covered more and had more of a cabaret/pop standard life. It's very accessible.

Sorry not sorry...

Sondheim on Password, anybody?

Would I be scorned if I admit that I hate Sinatra? He had a great voice, but there's a lazy, sloppy, smarmy quality and a palpable arrogance that sets in from the late 1950s/1960s on, and he is contemptuous of the craft of lyrics, often bending and altering them at will and destroying some very specific writing. I compare that to Ella Fitzgerald, for example who often included obscure or little recorded verses to known standards. When Sinatra pops up on my playlists, I can't advance to the next song fast enough.

I always found Sinatra's late-career ring-a-ding-ding "coolness" insufferable, R246, and the very opposite of cool. And I hated his arbitrary lyric changes, as in "New York, New York," when he repeats "A number one" within the same phrase, as though it's a brilliant substitution.

Sondheim with Lee Remick on Password....hm.

Not all late Sinatra is bad. His bossa nova work with Jobim is fantastic. And I love his cranky “That’s Life.” But yeah, those lyric screw-ups (deliberate or not) on New York, New York are annoying. I remember Liza called him out on them good-naturedly.

I agree with R246 and R247. Liked Sinatra's early recordings and some of the later ones because of the great orchestrations.

I would loathe Sinatra if I had met him, I'm sure. But he was a superb singer. And all jazz-influenced singers added words or embellishments to their performances: Bennett, Washington, Vaughan, O'Day etc.

Who the hell is James Barbour talking about in his mawkish "tribute to an old friend" video on his FB page? The creepy vid is even scored!

His career?

No, the person just died, even though that could fit Cristin.

Sinatra became a complete caricature of himself from his return in 1974 thru the early 90s. Poor song choices, MOR arrangements and a voice in decline. Not to mention the gold microphones and playing fast and loose with the lyrics.

He was at his coolest and most committed musically in the Capitol period (53-61) and the early Reprise era. Though even from '61 onwards, it starts to become very hit or miss. His collaborations with Jobim and Count Basie, however, remain some of my favorites of that period. He could be thrilling and quite moving when he wanted to be. And those brilliant Riddle/May orchestrations are pretty perfect. I'm surprised a better Sinatra jukebox musical hasn't emerged beyond Tharp's 'Come Fly Away'. Those orchestrations are still thrilling to hear live.

I will probably get stoned to death on this thread, but I maintain that Sinatra and his "legend" will die with the Boomers.

Younger singers and musicians I know appreciate a variety of singers from other eras. Sinatra? Not so much.

Maybe he'll come back into favor, but I'm not seeing or hearing it.

You're right, r256, but I can't begin to enumerate all of the "legends" who will die with the Boomers.

But it would be more interesting to make a list of those who won't die. Is that a cue for a new thread?

"Sondheim has to do a lot of heavy lifting and you can hear it. Coward was the same. Effortful."

Nonsense on both counts. "Effortful" can only be applied to the wanna-be Sondheims of the last 30 years who, combined, have failed to have one critical or commercial hit among them.

Please R258 Sondheim has to work very hard on his music and you hear it in every measure. It doesn't matter the sweat that Kern, Berlin or Gershwin put into their music it sounds as effortless as an unfolding force of nature. No one can accuse Sondheim of writing one breathtaking imperishable melody. Those come from God and Sondheim is not one of the chosen few.

You know what was one of the best things about Sunday's Oscars bombing? It means they'll never, ever attempt something like it for a Tonys ceremony.

R259, it's annoying to state something as incontrovertible fact when it's only your opinion, and a tremendously unpopular opinion.

FWIW, Richard Rodgers may have "peed melody" as famously stated, but he also worked slavish hours to compose what sound like simple and inevitable melodies. As the son of a successful physician, he was incredibly disciplined from an early age and kept regular "office hours" at home to compose music as an adult.

And yet it's well known that he could throw off a great melody with lightning speed, especially with Hart.

Sinatra will last, as will Ella, Billie, Sarah, Nina, Tony, etc. They keep getting rediscovered.

Agreed R264 - the millennials have a huge fascination with Sinatra, Ella, Nina and that whole era. Everything that's old is new again!

I agree that Sinatra, and to a lesser extent, Dean, Sammy and Tony, are likely safe. OTOH, how many Millennials could identify Vic Damone, Jerry Vale or Steve Lawrence?

[quote]. OTOH, how many Millennials could identify Vic Damone, Jerry Vale or Steve Lawrence?

Hey, I'm still alive!

Vic and Jerry, not so much.

Sorry Steve, nothing personal. And you -- and Sammy -- were one of the few Great American Songbook artists to do a Broadway musical.

The Sondheim posts are the quintessence of stupidity. He writes gorgeous, melodic, harmonically sophisticated scores. Period. The End.

[quote] And you -- and Sammy -- were one of the few Great American Songbook artists to do a Broadway musical.

What are we, chopped liver?

Steve did two Broadway musicals - "Golden Rainbow" and "What Makes Sammy Run?"

There's a reason that Vale and Lawrence and Damone will fade. They're good, but B-List.

Last year, many Zoomers (the generation my teen nephews are part of) were introduced to Sinatra via the JOKER movie and soundtrack. Sinatra's version of "That's Life" plays in the film's finale, and his rendition of "Send in the Clowns" plays in the end credits. The former, in particular, was played ad nauseam last year by them and their friends.

all this talk about "peeing melody" reminds me of the Johnny Mercer (?) quote about eating alphabet soup and shitting better lyrics than someone or some show.

Why are people talking about peeing and pooping and other gross bodily functions? I don't like to think that these masters did anything as base as that.

[quote]There's a reason that Vale and Lawrence and Damone will fade. They're good, but B-List.

Damone certainly wasn't "B-list" in terms of the quality of his voice. It was absolutely gorgeous. Obviously, the singers who also made films -- Sinatra, Davis, Martin -- will be remembered more than those that didn't, for that reason.

Damone made a number of Musicals in his early career.

Agree that Damone had a gorgeous, A+ voice; just mean that he was never the superstar Sinatra, et al were. Not many Top Ten hits.

[quote]Agree that Damone had a gorgeous, A+ voice; just mean that he was never the superstar Sinatra, et al were. Not many Top Ten hits.

True

[quote]Damone made a number of Musicals in his early career.

Yes, I meant to mention him among the singers who had major roles in films, although I would say the films that Sinatra, Martin, and Davis made are likely to be more lasting in the future. For Damone, it's probably only KISMET that will last, and even that one is questionable.

Vic Damone was MUCH better-looking than Sinatra, too.

[quote]And you -- and Sammy -- were one of the few Great American Songbook artists to do a Broadway musical.

John Davidson, Linda Ronstadt, Robert Goulet, Lena Horne, Josh Groban, Petula Clark ...

[quote]Vic Damone was MUCH better-looking than Sinatra, too.

I agree.

Some ladies I knew who were teenagers/young adults thought SInatra was too skinny and actually not that good-looking, not in comparison to Bing Crosby and Vic Damone (though Damone did have his nose fixed, fortunately without affecting his voice). Sinatra's career was on the downswing by the early 50s until he muscled his way, with his connections, into getting the part in "From Here to Eternity" taken away from Eli Wallach. But Sinatra was quite good in the film and got the Oscar and a big career comeback.

teenagers/young adults back in the 40s

Golden Rainbow!

Does that follow golden showers r286?

You'd have to ask Steve and Zombie Eydie.

Damone may not have had the sizable dick Sinatra had.

Would Vic Damone been more of a Buddy or Ben? Asking for a friend.

Oh, Jesus....We keep going backwards in time. What's going on now with the re-openings? Which shows will be closed? Which shows will survive?

I remember certain movies got me interested in old songs when I was a kid. Mambo Italiano was used in Married to the Mob and got me curious about Rosemary Clooney, Fly Me to the Moon was used in Once Around and I fell in love with Sinatra's version. Even commercials- I can remember when Chanel #5 used Nina Simone's My Baby Just Cares for Me in the late 80s and it was such a sensation that they released it on a 12 inch, which I bought, even though there were no other teenagers I knew in the late 80s listening to that. And then a decade later, the Gap commercial introduced a new generation to her song Feelin' Good. I'm sure there are other examples with show tunes.

Broadway poised to announce September return:

Broadway League optimistic for September reopening of Broadway:

I'm playing something called Wordmeister Scrabble. I just made two words - "gay" and "aver". Thank you, Buddy.

Marilyn Cooper was Edye’s understudy in Golden Rainbow and she said in an interview that she went on a lot. What an amazing career Cooper had. Too bad she never wrote a backstage tell all.

She was a Gooch...naturally.

R142 People said his costar rachel unfollowed him if that counts as fallout as they were pretty chummy before that

Thoughts?

He looks very old in In The Heights. And fat.

We know that critic's acumen about new musicals.

r300 - When Tallulah saw her dailies on Die, Die, My Darling, she said: "They used to shoot Shirley Temple through gauze, they should be shooting me through linoleum."

Lin-Manuel has to be one of the most tiresome, self-promoting twats of all time. Jebus, give it a rest, freak. He’s sooooooo painfully uninteresting.

The Babs in Funny Girl thread is paywalled. (Don't start.) Did anyone see Barbara Cook when she did the part in summer stock on Long Island back in the 60s? Or read or hear anything about it? It must have been very different.

It was a short summer tour that featured George Hamilton as Arnstein that had its major sitdown at Westbury Music Fair, if I remember a very old BWW thread correctly. I hope there is at least an audio boot of that somewhere. I really can't imagine Barbara as Brice, but she must have song the hell out of that score.

^ sung the hell, song the hell. Sorry.

Sorry to say that I doubt an audio of Cook's "Funny Girl" will ever emerge. I've tried tracking it down for years, and asked director Larry Fuller if he had one, but no luck. Yet boots do exist of such other '60s Westbury shows as Ann Sothern in "Gypsy" and Marilyn Michaels in "Funny Girl."

Barbara Cook kept at least a couple of the Funny Girl songs in her concert repertoire through the 1980s. Here she is singing "Who Are You Now?" in 1975.

Unpopular opinion, but if Funny Girl was ever to be done again on Broadway (sorry Sheridan) it would need to be a huge name in the lead... is Idina Menzel too old/rich? Would Lady Gaga commit to a 6-month run? Nobody else seems apropos, but these two seem the only viable options. Others?

*ahem*

You’re cancelled, R310. Maybe Tessie Tura when Audra or Idina inevitably does Gypsy in a few years? Start prepping.

Streisand became the toast of New York when Funny Girl opened but after a few months she became notorious for walking through performances and informing the stage manager and conductor which second act songs she would be omitting so she could get home earlier.

And yet people still wonder why she lost the Tony to Carol.

In one of her concerts, Barbara Cook told a story about some rich producer who thought she was the greatest ever and wanted her to star in Funny Girl. She said she was so flattered that she just couldn’t say no.

Apple TV have acquired the rights to the filmed performance of Come From Away, to be recorded in May. Cast to be confirmed - hopefully free from Chad Kimball.

You read it here first. The London Michael Mayer Funny Girl is coming to Broadway, but not with Idina. Star to be announced shortly, and the reaction should be....interesting.

Idina Menzel is 49 years old. She should not be playing FUNNY GIRL now... or ever. (Or Elphaba in a film of WICKED either. Sorry, Deenie, but that ship has long sailed for you and Kristen.)

I don't trust FUNNY GIRL in Michael Mayer's hands, and cannot think of anyone Bway-worthy and age-appropriate.

I love Barbara Cook.

Am I alone in not loving that version of "Who Are You Now?" at R308?

r316 Honey, NOTHING is coming to Broadway until they can figure out how to get more than 100 people into a theater safely.

[quote]Lin-Manuel has to be one of the most tiresome, self-promoting twats of all time. Jebus, give it a rest, freak. He’s sooooooo painfully uninteresting.

You're looking very green with envy at the moment. Perhaps you should audition for Elphaba in some production of WICKED.

Re Barbara Cook as Fanny in FUNNY GIRL, I've always wondered in what keys she sang those songs when she did the whole show. Obviously, the version of "Who Are You Know?" that she sang in later years is in a much higher key than the original.

I worked with Lin before the Hamilton onslaught. There's no way to get around he's a delightful guy. Very man/boy and completely open and warm. A real family man too. Completely in love with his wife. Very sweet.

[italic]Funny Girl[/italic] is a bad musical.

I wish Lin would write another show and focus less on being a King of All Media star performer. (I think singing and acting are his lesser talents, compared to his writing.) But I understand: Hollywood is throwing truckloads of money at him right now.

Barbara Cook as Ado Annie

FUNNY GIRL is a tricky musical. And utterly pointless without a Fanny who is either currently a superstar or a superstar talent on her way up. Nothing less.

Barbara Cook as Anna

[quote]And utterly pointless without a Fanny who is either currently a superstar or a superstar talent on her way up.

I'm available!

Barbara Cook [italic]Funny Girl[/italic] Playbill.

And now back to our regularly scheduled bitching about 1947 musicals.

I believe Barbara Cook stated that Anna in THE KING AND I was one of her favorite roles. I wonder if she played the part with a British accent? She makes no attempt to sound British on her recording of the score, but maybe she felt she didn't need to under those circumstances.

Ah yes, r329, 1947...

1947 Broadway musicals:

ALLEGRO

ANGEL IN THE WINGS (?)

BLESS THE BRIDE (?)

BRIGADOON

FINIANS RAINBOW

HIGH BUTTON SHOES

STREET SCENE

Any of these ripe for revival? Encores did SHOES recently and FINIAN'S RAINBOW before that. And I recall a Kelly O'Hara BRIGADOON short run.

My guess is it will be a BIPOC/trans Fanny!

The City Center BRIGADOON! was beautifully well done, and the audience adored it. The production was so well received that they even made a cast album of it, which rarely happens for those shows any more. It's a good album but it doesn't quite capture the magic.

[quote]Any of these ripe for revival?

Please, not "Allegro."

The r335 is a dope.

Reprise did "Brigadoon" with Marin Mazzie and Jason Danieley.

Fine. If you all think it’ll help to punish Scott Rudin, I guess I have no choice but to play Fanny Brice. You’re welcome.

There could be a nude version of "Funny Girl" and rename it "Funny Fanny".

If she could sing, Miranda Hart might make a really fun Fanny Brice in "Funny Girl".

I’ve only seen Lin in the Mary Poppins movie musical and I thought he was charming.

Lin and Emma’s performances were the only decent part of the Mary Poppins Returns mess

Why does he paywall the Babs in Funny Girl thread but the Markle threads are allowed to proliferate and never get pay walled?

That's some bullshit.

r339 that won't work out so well in the UK where the word fanny means pussy.

I know. I wonder if the Harold Rome "Fanny" ever played London and what it was called there!

I've only seen Idina in a bootleg of Wicked and after hearing so much hype for so many years I was surprised that she wasn't really that great in the role.

She sings it well but she's no great actress. I now understand why she and Kristin may have had tension. Kristin really is a very capable dancer with amazing vocal chops and acting skills, with Idina you just get the voice.

AnnE as FUNNY GIRL!

I think they should do it, she could pull it off if only someone would let her.

Happy to discover that the Christmas special of "Miranda" in two episodes is on Amazon Prime which wraps things up in that funny show, much funnier than the "Call Me Kat" American remake. Tom Ellis might make a dreamy NIck Arnstein actually too and Patricia Hodge a funny Mrs. Brice.

There were a lot of stock FUNNY GIRLs in summer/fall 1967, Marilyn Michaels, Edie Adams, Shari Lewis among them. Molly Picon played Mrs. Brice in two different productions. Jean Stapleton, the original Mrs. Strakosh, was Cook’s Mama Brice.

George Hamilton only did the first stop with Cook. George Reeder and James Mitchell both had their turns as Cook’s Nicky Arnstein.

R347 AnnE might be fine, though they might want to transpose some songs into Barbara Cook's keys. Girl has a very fine soprano as demonstrated in "Carnival!" years ago at Encores. She was funny in those Princess films she did with Julie Andrews.

George Reeder later went into the early gay play off-Broadway "And Puppy Dog Tails" which feature nudity from most of its cast; it was produced by DL kinda fave Swen Swenson. There was some photos of some of the cast around on the intenet. Apparently Bill Murray of SNL was in the Chicago cast.

Marilyn as Fanny and Barbra...

Let's start speculating who our new FANNY will be....My guess is they'll go for the comedy and get Tiffany Haddish.

Nobody in their right financial mind would back a Broadway revival of either MAME or Funny Girl.

I hear you, but some folks might have said the same about HELLO DOLLY a few years back before Bette (and Scott Rudin): "It's tired, it's old, no audience for it, it belongs to Channing..." etc.

Sometimes theatre gives us the revival we didn't know we needed.

But Dolly is a better constructed show.They didn't have to make alterations to the book which began as an already well constructed play. Compare how many Dollys the original went through and how many Fannys FG went through.

Yeah, I was actually surprised when I would walk by "Hello, Dolly" some nights and would see lots of young people standing in line to get in. I'm sure Bette was the draw more than the show itself but just the fact it had that kind of youth appeal was shocking to me.

I saw both Dolly's with Bette and Bernie on bootleg during lockdown. I didn't think I'd like either version but what those ladies bring did make it a worthy event even watching a shitty bootleg.

Have to say I liked Bernie's better.

I think they should give Anne Hathaway a shot at Funny Girl although I'm not sure how many young girls have seen her in Princess Diaries. She is still young enough to appeal to a younger audience though.

Yes, r358, I can hear her singing "I'm Private Schwartz from Rockaway..." now.

It's called acting . . .

Hathaway is 38, so she could still pull off Fanny. But she seems kind of lazy, based on her (terrible) recent comedy and thriller films.

So 8 shows a week? Or even 6? Not sure she'd even consider it.

I do think she's talented (but wasting her talents since LES MIZ).

I think living in LA can make actors lazy. Those actors who are from the stage then come out here to make some bankroll to go back to the stage are those who truly love theatre and have no problem putting forth the effort to do a show. If Anne had gone back and done more theatre she might have been more inclined to do the run of a show. As it is she struggled to get film work after a certain point.

Bette has been in LA a long time and went back to do Dolly but she is a true trooper, a live entertainer and clearly thrives on live audience.

Maybe Anne would do a one off live tv version?

Lee Marvin could have played Fanny Brice and it still would have been called acting, r360.

Where does Bette live in LA, r362?

[quote]So 8 shows a week? Or even 6? Not sure she'd even consider it.

I sometimes wonder how interesting it might be to see some of today's A-list movie stars attempting to do 8 shows a week in a play on Broadway. I'm talking people like Leo, Brad, Tom C, JLaw, Matt D., etc. They've been doing nothing but films for so long, which is such a start-and-stop process, that I don't know if they'd have the discipline to do a show straight-through without stopping, not to mention just getting them to commit to show up every night. Some might surprise and do quite well (IIRC, Tom Hanks received good reviews both for his attendance and performance when he was on Broadway a few years ago, whereas Julia Roberts just received credit for her attendance, not her performance) but others I'd just be rather shocked to see them follow through.

I imagine once you've gotten used to doing only one certain type of acting (i.e., film acting vs. stage acting), it'd be hard to suddenly reverse and do the opposite. But kudos to those who have (Frances, Morgan, Bradley C., Daniel, etc., all of whom I've seen onstage), who prove you can do it if you try.

Jude Law did theater, notably getting naked on stage in "Indiscretions" on Broadway, so he has a track record. Unsure about some of the others you mentioned.

Unless you meant Jennifer Lawrence.... tired of those A-Rod J-Lo things..

Sorry, R366. Yes, I meant Jennifer Lawrence, not Jude. I should have been more clear.

You think your comment makes sense r363?

r365 Hank has a hard on for live theatre, he and his wife are very involved with the Shakespeare Center here in LA.

Let’s just hope it’s not that slacker Lauren Ambrose.

Yes, r369, I do. Both Mr. Marvin and AnnE would be miscast in Funny Girl. They could both "act" their hearts out and they'd still be miscast.

There is no question that real theatre actors have an intensity that media actors do not. I've done props on some projects with theatre actors and their level of attention and professionalism is way higher than the actors that always do film or tv.

Although Michelle Pfeiffer has the intensity of a stage actor. Craig T Nelson who is not a brilliant actor but a solid one also is very intense and focused.

Ambrose actually has a really good voice, though people say she was not engaged so much in her acting when she was singing the songs in "My Fair Lady", focusing on the voice production. (Lots of opera people have been known to do that, too).

AnnE wouldn't be any more miscast than Barbara Cook, and I would have loved to have seen and heard Barbara do the show!

R365 Don't forget Glenn, who has come back to theater time and time again. Meryl's "Mother Courage" looked and sounded like she was doing an imitation of Andrea Martin's Edtih Prickley character from "Second City TV"!

Edith!

I would as well, r375. Again, she didn't do it on Broadway. Let AnnE do it at the Melody Tent!

r372.

If AnnE can act the part and do a great job, she's not miscast.

Barbra was miscast for a lot of people in Hello Dolly for various reasons, but she did a brilliant job playing the part. For those who love and appreciate that performance in Dolly, Barbra is not miscast.

The only reason Barbra was miscast was due to her age, r379. What other reasons have you heard? The reasons AnnE would be miscast have *nothing* to do with her acting ability.

What, she's not circumcised?

Come on! Fannie can be many things, but she can't be as attractive as Anne is.

I suspect Cook was laughable as Brice, except when she was singing.

Fanny's songs were built for Streisand's pipes. Anne has a lovely soprano. You want a Don't Rain on My Parade that's pretty and without power? Fine.

Cook was a very good actress and besides her musicals, she was a replacement on Broadway for Sandy Dennis in "Any Wednesday" plus she created the part of Patsy in Jules Feiffer's "Little Murders". She could play comedy -- listen to "Ice Cream" and "Where's My Shoe?" on the OCR of "She Loves Me".

I'm sure her Greatest Star would be...pretty.

Michelle Pfeiffer would have been a lovely Desiree in ALNM.

Agreed, R387. I suppose she could still play it, since after all, Bernadette did, but I digress.

R352 that clip of Marilyn Michaels doing Streisand and Brice is TERRIFIC!

I”m watching the Aretha series and la Erivo is boring. It seems like her Celie as Aretha. Too bad but she seems like a one trick pony.

Streisand as Fanny Brice was the PERFECT match of performer and role. She even looked like Fanny Brice. Besides the phenomenal talent and extreme youth and brashness, Streisand brought a Jewish sensibility to all of the humor the role offered.....something would-be Fannys like Carol Burnett and Anne Bancroft could have never mustered.

For all I know, Anne Hathaway is Jewish but she, as well as Sheridan Smith and Lauren Ambrose and other names being bandied about would never be convincing as a Jewish wallflower who "isn't pretty like a Miss Atlantic City."

For me, the only way Funny Girl could ever be exciting now is with an incredibly talented and genuinely funny young newcomer who resembles the original Fanny Brice.

Carol was never a would be, r391. She told them right off they needed to get a Jewish girl.

[quote]Jude Law did theater, notably getting naked on stage in "Indiscretions" on Broadway, so he has a track record. Unsure about some of the others you mentioned.

Umm, he also played fucking HAMLET on Broadway, in 2009. I guess you were unaware of that, or maybe you just thought it was more "notable" to mention that other play because he was nude in it.

Lin would be a terrific Fanny Brice.

[quote]Streisand as Fanny Brice was the PERFECT match of performer and role. She even looked like Fanny Brice.

Striesand looks nothing like Fanny Brice unless you are saying the both look Jewish which is not the same as looking just alike.

[quote]For all I know, Anne Hathaway is Jewish but she, as well as Sheridan Smith and Lauren Ambrose and other names being bandied about would never be convincing as a Jewish wallflower who "isn't pretty like a Miss Atlantic City."

I think AnnE has a funny face, not ugly, but to me she is funny looking. Big lips, big nose, she looks a bit cartoonish which for me, works for Fanny Brice.

[quote]Streisand as Fanny Brice was the PERFECT match of performer and role.

Well of course it was. After she was cast, the entire role was rewritten around her. It would have been a very different show if either Martin, Bancroft or Burnett had remained attached.

Jerome Robbins was the original director of Funny Girl. He dropped out and Garson Kanin replaced him. The show had enormous problems out of town and Streisand demanded to have Robbins back. He came back, uncredited, as show doctor for the last 6 to 8 weeks out of town and got the show in shape to open in New York.

From everything I've read, Garson Kanin was a massive incompetent hack as a director. Why was he allowed to direct so much?

Robbins only directed Funny Girl and didn't interfere much with Carol Haney's choreography, which he must have found acceptable. She was always credited with it. Robbins tried to fix the overall pacing and tempo of the show when he came back, which was by most accounts in disarray under Kanin, who nonetheless retained directoral credit when the show opened.

OMG [italic]Funny Girl[/italic] was 7 years before [italic]Follies[/italic]. We're going [bold]backwards[/bold].

r392, you need to research the meaning of "would-be."

I saw Jude Law as Hamlet on Broadway and thought he was remarkable.

Streisand may not have been a perfect likeness of Fanny Brice but her face and demeanor certainly evoked the physicality of her like no one else who ever played the role. And, of course, when Funny Girl premiered, there were still 1000s of audience members (including my parents) who remembered Fanny B. quite well.

[quote] OMG Funny Girl was 7 years before Follies. We're going backwards.

Anyone want to chime in on their memories of The Black Crook?

[quote]Anyone want to chime in on their memories of The Black Crook?

Was he more of a Ben or a Buddy?

R403, if that was true then the comedy would have been more Fanny-like.

Streisand creates a compelling comic persona, but it is VERY far from Fanny Brice. Because there were no films of Brice in ready circulation, this was not as much of an issue as it would be today.

This is what comes up for me, r402. I stand by my post. Regarding r397, the only one attached was Bancroft. Martin and Burnett both turned it down. We're just dealing with silly semantics. Mary and Carol had a connection to the show but were never attached to it.

*

would-be

/ˈwo͝od ˌbē/

adjective

desiring or aspiring to be a specified type of person. "a would-be actress who dresses up as Marilyn Monroe"

I still have my program, r404!

I saw THE BLACK CROOK in New Haven because my then-boyfriend was in the chorus. Word was that Doc Simon wrote ALL of the funny lines in Act 2.

I saw that Stars in the House had Drood the other night, so I gave it another listen. Still enjoyable if not masterful - but Holmes took known cliches - both sides of the coin, perfect strangers, no good can come from bad, settling up the score, the writing on the wall, the wages of sin - and made them his songs instead of coming up with any fresh ideas.

Yup, that's DROOD (and Rupert Holmes). Some of the songs are really fun, but it always felt a bit twee and inauthentic to me. I'm left wanting to like it more than I do.

[quote]I still have my program, R404!

I have so many happy memories of wonderful evenings spent at Niblo's Garden. I fear it won't reopen even after all the other Broadway theaters do.

yes r411--and isn't the point of songwriting to [italic]avoid[/italic] cliche, rather than build your entire score on them?

Don't forget--years before writing DROOD, Rupert Holmes was very successful as a pop songwriter, producer, and performer.

Has Sondheim ever rivaled THE PINA COLADA SONG?

Absolutely, R414. As one of our brilliant contributors already pointed out as an example of Sondheim’s penchant for melody, “Hold On” is among his best.

Concert honoring the late Rebecca Luker streams on Tuesday evening. Kristi Dawn, Norm Lewis, Judy Kuhn, Kelli O'Hara, Sierra Boggess, Vicky Clark, Howard McGillin, Laura Benanti, Santino Fontana, Michael Cerveris, and more.

I'm sorry I didn't remember Jude Law played Hamlet, though I did see Ralph Fiennes play the Shakespearean Dane on Broadway.

Slightly off topic: "Hold On" is a wonderfully passive aggressive song. They're urging somebody to have the courage to fix their life already, but don't do it just yet, and yeah, things suck because it's your fault.

Someone could write a very long book about the number of flop plays and musicals written by Rupert Holmes.

There was another crazy ass march on Broadway yesterday, and NO ONE paid attention. I heard they held signs that said "Burn it Down."

The ladies who lunch shun piña coladas.

The new Fanny Brice will be Karen Olivo. She'll only be doing 3 performances a week.

[quote]Someone could write a very long book about the number of flop plays and musicals written by Rupert Holmes.

Could the book be adapted into a ***BROADWAY MUSICAL***!!!???

I'm sorry I didn't remember Jude Law played Hamlet, though I did see Ralph Fiennes play the Shakespearean Dane on Broadway.

"Like a ferret on double espresso", I believe one of the reviewers said, r417.

Despite R395s insistence otherwise, I would say that, in some photos, Fanny Brice looks a LOT like Barbra Streisand (and vice-versa). Here is only one of many examples you can easily find through Google.

r422

that seems like a lot

I always hated The Pina Colada Song, but I felt Holmes' next (and final) chart hit, "Him" was a small gem with clever lyrics.

What musicals could Barbra Streisand have done on Broadway if she hadn't decided to leave NYC behind for good and concentrate on films and recording? Maybe "Cats". I don't really off-hand think many she'd have been a great fit for.

On the Twentieth Century?

When did she have a soprano range? Other than what she sings after a "silver flute" in "I'm the Greatest Star". Although Cy Coleman could have fashioned it differently for a Streisand Mildred Plotka.

Rags

R428 Musicals tend to be built around their star--or at least they were in the 60s and 70s.

So the shows Streisand would have starred in probably would have been very different. Off the top of my head, The Apple Tree, Drat! The Cat, I'm Getting My Act Together and Taking It On the Road, , would seem naturals that could be tailored for her.

And stick in a revival of Gypsy in the 70s.

Actually, a Striesand Getting My Act Together would have been amazing. Has she ever recorded Old Friend?

Written in soprano range eventually, but yeah, since it was partly a sequel to "Fiddler", she might have been a good fit.

Maybe "Evita"?

Oy

Blood Brothers, musing all about Marilyn Monroe!

Barbra was at one point signed on to do Sally Bowles in the film of Cabaret but that film went through a lot preproduction hell and when Babs' director was replaced by Fosse, she left too.

The stage versions of "Yentl" and "A Star Is Born."

Not exactly, r438...

*

Barbra Streisand answered fan letters in The New York Times, and her most interesting response concerned what (relatively insignificant) regrets she has about her career. The 70-year-old legend said she wished she hadn’t turned down starring roles in ’70s classics Klute, Cabaret, and Julia, noting, “If I had known that the directors were going to be Bob Fosse, Alan J. Pakula and Fred Zinnemann, I would have said yes immediately… But I’m glad my girlfriends Liza Minnelli and Jane Fonda delivered such strong performances.”

I guess Barbra could have passed as Italian girl "Sally Bocce" playing her Anglicized name "Sally Bowles" in "Cabaret" or Julia could have been Italian. Otherwise, how would she have gotten past the Germans of the era?

Barbra also auditioned for Liesl as a replacement in the Broadway "Sound of Music", so I guess she saw herself in a different way.

In answer to the-old question, "What would a musical about the making of JAWS sound like?"

Bette was a replacement daughter in Fiddler. She used the money she made as an extra in Hawaii to finance her move to New York.

Kind of fun to think of Bette in a movie with Julie Andrews! I wonder why no one every thought of writing a vehicle to star Barbra and Julie, Bette and Barbra , or some combination of them?

or opera singer Aprile Millo, who was practically a double in looks for Bette!

Aprile Millo - great voice, especially singing Verdi

Wasn't Whatever Happened to Baby Jane? written for Julie and Barbra?

That’s pretty bad, r443.

No, r448.

OMG, R443. I heard about that project... but I didn't quite believe it.

That sequence is pretty skillful, but I'm not entirely convinced of the WHY of a musical about the making of JAWS.

There are more songs on that YouTube channel if anyone else is curious.

"Streisand brought a Jewish sensibility to all of the humor the role offered.....something would-be Fannys like Carol Burnett and Anne Bancroft could have never mustered."

Inaccurate. Bancroft communicated a very Jewish sensibility as Gittel Mosca in Two For The Seesaw. In fact, her Jewish speech inflections were so ingrained and hard to shake off, Arthur Penn suggested she assume an Irish brogue for Annie Sullivan during rehearsals of The Miracle Worker, even though the latter did not speak with one. The rest is history.

Re: the movie JULIA. Streisand would have been playing a younger Lillian Hellman. Babs looks a lot more like Hellman than Jane Fonda ever did.

(It's an overrated bore of a film, built on Hellman's plagiarized lies, so Streisand ultimately made the right choice, IMHO. But it was a prestige project at the time.)

Was Bancroft considered for "Seesaw" when Bennett got rid of Lainie?

And a damn superb one it is.

I've worked with Oeberacker. His ego is limitless. He was told he's a prodigy and he won't listen to anyone. This sounds like it has the same problems as Bandstand. A show that says its one thing about one thing, but is really about a misunderstood genius, and the only thing that matters in life is big show biz success. Yawn.

[quote]I guess Barbra could have passed as Italian girl "Sally Bocce" playing her Anglicized name "Sally Bowles" in "Cabaret"

Did Liza have to do that?

Did Julie Harris have to do that?

Yes, Streisand could have done "Julia". Katie Morosky in "The Way We Were" shares more than a bit of Hellman's personality and politics. But Fonda and Redgrave worked very well together.

If Sally Bowles is Jewish, her obliviousness to her world crumbling around her takes on a totally different dynamic

Didn’t Bancroft also play Jewish in “Torch Song Trilogy”?

R461 Nope. That was Estelle Getty, who really was Jewish, not Italian.

R461 In the film, yes.

r425

So you are saying the person in this clip looks a lot like Barbra Streisand?

You are nuts.

[quote]Nope. That was Estelle Getty, who really was Jewish, not Italian.

Bancroft played the role in the movie.

This is Barbra, she is striking looking, in a good way. I have always thought she was beautiful. My beauty appreciation does not adhere to a WASPy standard.

On Fanny Brice's best day no one ever mistook her for being attractive.

But I do have to say that I'm the type of person that sees the differences in fraternal twins that other people can't tell apart. People swear they look exactly alike and my response is always "No they don't Brenda is on the right and Sandy is on the left." And I'll be right.

R457 Minnelli looks Italian and is half-Italian, and Italy was in the Axis, so she'd have been safe in Germany.

R467 could you tell the Olsen Twins apart back in the day? Apparently, they're fraternal, not identical.

I'd bet that Streisand turned down JULIA because she didn't want to play a woman who was as physically unattractive as Lillian Hellman, especially if she had to hear everyone saying how much she resembled Lillian Hellman. Fanny Brice would be the last time Barbra played a woman whose looks were mocked.

She studiously avoided playing wallflowers after I Can Get It For You Wholesale and Funny Girl and most always ever after tried to sell herself as an offbeat sexpot (though I suppose The Way We Were and Yentl were sort of the exceptions).

[quote]But I do have to say that I'm the type of person that sees the differences in fraternal twins that other people can't tell apart. People swear they look exactly alike and my response is always "No they don't Brenda is on the right and Sandy is on the left." And I'll be right.

Even Helen Keller can tell most fraternal twins apart. I assume you meant IDENTICAL twins.

[quote]I've worked with Oeberacker. His ego is limitless. He was told he's a prodigy and he won't listen to anyone. This sounds like it has the same problems as Bandstand. A show that says its one thing about one thing, but is really about a misunderstood genius, and the only thing that matters in life is big show biz success.

I didn't know that about Oeberacker, r456. That explains a lot. BANDSTAND really should have run longer. It was marketed poorly. It was a great dance show. There was an incredible specialty dancer in the show, Jaime Verazin.

BANDSTAND's story? Eh. They could have marketed it to veterans and conservatives successfully.

A crazy side story. Before BANDSTAND even began previews, Joey Pero, who played trumpeter Nick Radel, was badly injured (car accident?). A musician in the pit, Alex Bender, took over the role until Pero was healed enough to resume the role.

Yes, R464, I would say Brice in that clip looks quite a lot like Barbra Streisand. I wouldn't (and didn't) say they look like twins, or even that the resemblance is striking, but I would definitely say the resemblance is very strong if you allow for the fact that styles of makeup and hair were very different in their respective eras. And I would say there is an especially strong resemblance between Brice and the young Streisand, before the latter began wearing such heavy makeup. (See photo.) If you DON'T see a strong resemblance between the two, I honestly think you should have your eyes checked.

I really enjoyed "Bandstand." Of course sitting close enough to almost touch Corey Cott's fabulous chest hair was a big part of my enjoyment.

r472, my guess is veterans aren't much interested in seeing Broadway musicals, especially those about PTS. Unless, maybe if they're comped.

I would have tended to agree with you if I hadn't seen the buses full of vets and their wives coming to BANDSTAND night after night, r475. Still, it's a limited audience.

[quote]I really enjoyed "Bandstand." Of course sitting close enough to almost touch Corey Cott's fabulous chest hair was a big part of my enjoyment.

It was quite fabulous, r474. Fu fact: Cott had not played the piano before this role.

Poor Beth Leavel was saddled with this ponderous piece. Brought the show to a screaming halt.

Bancroft didn't just play Jewish in Torch Song Trilogy, she played EVERY Jew that ever lived (well, the non-orthodox ones since she hammed it up like crazy).

I don't want Corey Cott back on Broadway until he has a sustained nude scene.

[quote]Bancroft didn't just play Jewish in Torch Song Trilogy, she played EVERY Jew that ever lived (well, the non-orthodox ones since she hammed it up like crazy).

One of the most painfully overacted performances in film history :-( And I hear that can also be said of Bancroft's performance in the movie of 'NIGHT, MOTHER, though I've never seen it.

The reason veterans didn't flock to Bandstand is that a large group went to an early preview and saw that the show had really nothing to do with them, in truth. It was a show that was about a contract dispute over a recording contract, and whether Veterans deserves first class accommodations on to travel to the New York for a radio competition. Seriously. The veterans realized they were being used, and word quickly spread.

I was sick to death of Bancroft getting all these roles in films adapted from plays-‘night, Mother, Torch Song Trilogy, 84 Chsring Cross Road, Agnes of God, Broadway Bound. She was good in The Prisoner of Second Avenue, though. And if there had been a film of Lost in Yonkers she would have been good in that one, too.

And she would have kicked ass in August: Osage County.

R445, I like to imagine that Barbra and Bette have a strict "don't ask me about her" policy regarding the other. R481, there was a movie version of Lost in Yonkers. Irene Worth and Mercedes Ruehl reprised their roles, with Richard Dreyfuss instead of Kevin Spacey.

I forgot about The Elephant Man. She was miscast in that one, too. Of course the only reason she got to do it was her hubby was producing it.

[quote]The reason veterans didn't flock to Bandstand is that a large group went to an early preview and saw that the show had really nothing to do with them, in truth. It was a show that was about a contract dispute over a recording contract, and whether Veterans deserves first class accommodations on to travel to the New York for a radio competition. Seriously. The veterans realized they were being used, and word quickly spread.

In retrospect, I can see how that was the case, r480, thanks for your input. The buses did drop off in frequency and quantity as time went on, but I attributed that to business dropping off in general. I also agree with your synopsis of the book. I can see how that would be offensive.

BANDSTAND also had walk-ins who expected it to be about Dick Clark's Bandstand.

It also wasn't that great a show. It a a few excellent musical numbers. Amazing dancing. Andy Blankenbuehler deserved his Tony for choreography. I always find Osnes bland. Cott was overwrought. They had no chemistry.

I liked this tune, also.

I'll just leave this here....

R486 OK, I will bite. WTF is a non binary voice?

Hopefully Testa will go non-binary so we'll get more of this sort of magic!

[quote]I was sick to death of Bancroft getting all these roles in films adapted from plays-‘night, Mother, Torch Song Trilogy, 84 Chsring Cross Road, Agnes of God, Broadway Bound.

It seems that, earlier in her career, she turned down a lot of film roles -- including Golde in FIDDLER ON THE ROOF -- that she would have been great in, simply because she was so snooty and picky. Then, when she got to be an old lady, she realized she had foolishly let a lot of opportunities pass by, so she belatedly started to grab up film roles like a pig. And at least in the cast of TORCH SONG, she overacted ridiculously as if to make up for all the acting she didn't do in the roles she didn't take. Sad ending to what had been a brilliant career.

If she had done nothing but the Miracle Worker, she would be a goddess to me.

[quote] One of the most painfully overacted performances in film history :-( And I hear that can also be said of Bancroft's performance in the movie of 'NIGHT, MOTHER, though I've never seen it.

I thought Bancroft was amazing in Night, Mother and I'm sorry she was not nominated that year (instead of the undeserved nom she got the year before for Agnes of God). There were some parts of NM where she got a little hammy, especially in the beginning (and I'll bet the film was shot in sequence), but once she settled into the role, she had many moments that were among the best in her career, and she was heartbreaking. I was surprised, because I thought she was miscast, but she managed to make it work. Spacek was even better and should have been nominated for that instead of the craptacular Crimes of the Heart.

"The Most Happy Fella" is one of my favorite musicals, primarily because of Frank Loesser's brilliant score. You'll forgive me if I skip a version rejiggered for "nonbinary voices."

[quote]But I do have to say that I'm the type of person that sees the differences in fraternal twins that other people can't tell apart.

Um, fraternal twins generally look nothing alike.

r493, see r471

The Stars in the House DROOD reunion was actually one of the better ones I've watched. Everyone was in great cheer, knew when to give and take and shared some wonderful stories/photos from the run. I've always had a huge soft spot for that show (in spite of its shortcomings).

Interestingly, there were two BIG elephants in the room that weren't addressed in the nearly 2 hour show: the late, great (if deeply troubled) George Rose and the equally troubled (though thru no fault of her own) Jana Schneider who played Helena Landless. A shame as so much of the show's joy and success hinged on Rose driving the plot and his repartee with the audience. Would have been interesting to get their perspective, especially knowing what we know now...

I was also hoping that they would dish on the nightmare that was Loretta Swit. McGillin told some great tales on Chatterbox years ago about it. Would've been great to hear more!

Weird. THere's certainly much to discuss about George Rose without having to go anywhere near his lurid death. It's not like you'd have to mention it at all to be able to discuss him.

R495 Did being gay make George deeply troubled? Or do you mean his murder?

R496 - I agree. I wouldn't expect any of them to comment on the lurid aspects obviously. It would've been wonderful just to hear about his presence on stage and backstage. He was a remarkable performer that really lit up any stage.

R497 - He was apparently very comfortable with his sexuality among his friends and close colleagues...often playing it up. At least this is the picture that Ed Dixon painted in his 'Georgie' play. However, I do recall some of the facts and timelines in the play were later called into question... Is this what you're referring to? I've heard many different versions of how it all went down.

The Most Happy Person! Yay!

R492, instead of watching The Love Boat, why don't you watch the classic I Love Lucy episode where the Ricardos and the Mertzes attend the original Broadway production of The Most Happy Fella and, despite a ticket mix-up, sit there looking enchanted while the soundtrack plays Standing on the Corner off the OBCR?

I saw Michelle Pfeiffer in Shakespeare in the Park, and like a lot of film actors, she had no stage presence.

Why? I would never stand in a line to see Pfeiffer.

Say what you will, but Pfeiffer has proven her musical mettle, albeit movie musicals. GREASE 2, HAIRSPRAY and of course what should have been her Oscar for FABULOUS BAKER BOYS. If they ever film ALNM again, she’d be my pick for Desiree.

I never miss a chance to watch Grease 2.

Incidentally, Grease 2 is now free to watch on YouTube.

Anyone see Bancroft in Mike Nichols' LITTLE FOXES? Or any of her latter-day stage performances—DUET FOR ONE or GOLDE? Wish she had done more theater work, but I guess movies were more lucrative, and easier.

Oops, GOLDA. Although she would have been a very fine Golde in FIDDLER.

[quote]Incidentally, Grease 2 is now free to watch on YouTube.

Did any sentient being ever actually pay to see Grease 2?

r510 Three times.

[quote]i was molested

As well you should have been r511.

I would have loved to have seen that production of The Little Foxes. I know it was considered something of a disappointment compared to its expectations at the time, but I can't believe that cast with that script and Nichols directing didn't have its moments. Plus I love Patricia Zipprodt's designs and can't believe I wouldn't have been happy just watching her period clothes for two and a half hours.

r504 that Twelfth Night was star studded: Gregory Hines, Jeff Goldblum, Fisher Stevens, John Amos, Stephen Collins, Charlaine Woodard, etc

R498, generally people who are comfortable with their sexuality do not go to underdeveloped countries to purchase teenage lovers.

I didn't see that Michelle Pfeiffer TWELFTH NIGHT but apparently some of her reviews were so bad (no stage presence, indeed) that she took some serious acting training after that. Here's the Times:

[quote]Ms. Pfeiffer offers an object lesson in how gifted stars with young careers can be misused by those more interested in exploiting their celebrity status than in furthering their artistic development.

[quote]It's unfortunate that the actress has been asked to make both her stage and Shakespearean comic debut in a role chained to melancholy and mourning. It's also unclear why the director, Harold Guskin, a prominent acting coach, failed to come to the rescue of Ms. Pfeiffer's vocal delivery, shaky and wan even when miked. Only when the actress gives out an uninhibited yelp of lust in Sebastian's arms does she seem comfortably herself onstage.

Jeff Goldblum fared even worse:

[quote]Easily the most shocking offender is Mr. Goldblum, who gets no laughs in the heretofore foolproof scene in which Olivia's puritanical steward, Malvolio, is duped into romantic lightheadedness by a forged letter. Fracturing every line into unintelligibility with eye and tongue poppings, racing his voice up and down the octave, Mr. Goldblum fails to define Malvolio's pomposity in the first place, thereby rendering his subsequent fall and cruel humiliation meaningless. Malvolio may be 'sick of self love,' as Olivia says, but Mr. Goldblum's egotism is of another order entirely. This is a star appearance at the esthetic level of an autograph signing.

Ouch.

should have clarified: "... apparently some of her reviews were so bad (no stage presence, indeed) that there were rumors that she took some serious acting training and vocal coaching after that..."

I believe she studied here in NYC, don't know where or with whom.

Getting back to Rupert Holmes, years ago (2000?) I saw his musical MARTY (based on the Ernest Borgnine film) in Boston and it was quite lovely. Spacing on who he collaborated with - Charles Strouse? But John C. Reilly was very credible as lovelorn bachelor Marty even if he couldn't hit all the notes. My memory is they did a very nice job expanding the simple story to secondary characters and a chorus ensemble. Anyone else see it?

What exactly happened with that musical of Marty? They somehow lost the rights, right?

I think MARTY sounds promising for a musical adaptation.

I'm not sure how recognizable the source material is to younger audiences, though, and that's a huge piece of movie-to-show adaptations coming to life commercially.

[quote]R492, instead of watching The Love Boat, why don't you watch the classic I Love Lucy episode where the Ricardos and the Mertzes attend the original Broadway production of The Most Happy Fella and, despite a ticket mix-up, sit there looking enchanted while the soundtrack plays Standing on the Corner off the OBCR?

That's a fine idea. I don't even want to think about what the "nonbinary voices" version is going to do with that particular song.

r520 the value of commercial recognition is debatable, a lot of movie adaptations that did well are less known and the blockbusters often bomb

Toot-toot-TOOTSIE, bye-bye...

We need more musicals about paintings.

Ghost. Pretty Woman. Bring It On and Cry Baby. vs Gentlemens Guide and Kinky Boots minor movies, even Hairspray

Is "Mrs. Doubtfire" coming back?

yes it is

My understanding is that everything except Frozen and Mean Girls is making plans to reopen. Bizarre that those two got the ax but Diana and Mrs. Doubtfire will be back.

I would say that Diana and Mrs. Doubtfire may plan to come back, hope to come back....but there's NO official promise of anything there yet. I certainly wouldn't bet money.

MARTY seems to be the dictionary definition of a property where the characters don't sing.

As opposed to a silent film star who didn't survive the talkies.

Would strongly disagree with that., r530 as awkward lug Marty and his beloved but shy Clara are characters bursting with emotions they're unable to articulate. So song seems very viable.

R532 So maybe they sing, but instead of lyrics, just nonsense syllables or solfeggio.

Like the adults in a Peanuts cartoon.

I'd like some grated solfeggio on my pasta.

We serve the Doughrayme brand

HOME SWEET HOMER!

Breaking: theatres can legally reopen as early as May 19th! But read the fine print...

Tony nominee Adrienne Warren weighs in on the state of things.

Of course she does.

I'm hearing its unsure if WSS is coming back...

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1988, "Speed-the-Plow" opened at the Royale Theatre.

[quote]THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1988, "Speed-the-Plow" opened at the Royale Theatre

I can still recall everything I did that day, including what I was wearing and what I had for dinner.

[quote]If all attendees are fully vaccinated or can show recent proof of a negative COVID-19 test, the distance requirement is waived.

At the risk of sounding paranoid, how will they know if the person is telling the truth? It's been reported that some MAGAts are already planning to forge vaccination cards. For all you know, the person sitting next to you in that crowded theater could be someone who lied to get in there.

Why on earth should Diana and Come from Away re-open when both will be available to watch on Netflix and Apple TV+, respectively?

[quote]My understanding is that everything except Frozen and Mean Girls is making plans to reopen. Bizarre that those two got the ax but Diana and Mrs. Doubtfire will be back.

I believe Disney decided that, since the Broadway production of FROZEN was underperforming, it made economic sense under the circumstances to just close that production and use the sets for one of the productions that are being done elsewhere. Not sure if it's the same situation with Mean Girls.

The dress...

FROZEN was such a missed opportunity. Given the success of the movie and its enormous fandom among kids, the right translation to the stage should have run for decades. That song!

Disney Theatricals and the creative team really dropped the ball.

What were McGillin’s Loretta Swit stories?

So who is controlling the Loesser estate now that the fiercely protective widow has kicked the bucket? I can't imagine a dumber idea than a Most Happy Fella for female and non-binary voices. Well, maybe if they have Rob Ashford choreograph it, that would make it even dumber.

Oh, my ears...

Barbra Streisand was never offered Klute, Cabaret, or Julia. In all three cases, there were inquiries made to ask availability and/or interest, and she wasn’t interested. She was never actually offered the parts.

R552, that makes sense, especially if no directors were attached yet to those projects.

Sad.

Adrian Zmed and his ridiculously tight, low button shirts in GREASE 2 were part of my sexual awakening. The film used to repeat all the time on cable TV when I was a kid.

Disney Theatricals dropped the creative ball years ago....

Well, he had a long and successful life, r554.

I wouldn't be surprised if Scott Rudin doesn't reopen WSS or even To Kill a Mockingbird and Book of Mormon just out of spite to Karen Olivo.

R558 have the actors had the meeting yet with the Book of Mormon producers to voice their concerns?

[quote]FROZEN was such a missed opportunity. Given the success of the movie and its enormous fandom among kids, the right translation to the stage should have run for decades. That song! Disney Theatricals and the creative team really dropped the ball.

Further evidence that Schumacher and the other powers-that-be there really don't know what the FUCK they're doing, and that Disney just happened to get really lucky with THE LION KING, the one and only really good show they have produced on Broadway to date. But since all but two of those shows have been financially successful, despite their awfulness, Schumacher is still in place.

[quote]So who is controlling the Loesser estate now that the fiercely protective widow has kicked the bucket?

I don't know, but I sure hope that JW person is no longer involved on any level.

r500 Supposedly the reason for that episode was to plug the musical, which the Arnazes had invested in.

In addition to FROZEN and MEAN GIRLS, there was also HANGMEN and WHO'S AFRAID OF VIRGINIA WOOLF?, neither of which got to open on Broadway.

[quote]I wouldn't be surprised if Scott Rudin doesn't reopen WSS or even To Kill a Mockingbird and Book of Mormon just out of spite to Karen Olivo.

Sorry if this is a dumb question, but can one producer ever be bought out by another? Perhaps one who wasn't originally involved in the production? For example, if Rudin were done with a show, but other producers had an interest in the show, would they be able to swoop in and save it? The way, say, sometimes a canceled TV show gets picked up by another network or by Netflix and gets a second life.

[quote] Disney just happened to get really lucky with THE LION KING, the one and only really good show they have produced on Broadway to date

And Schumacher still trots around in his [italic] fucking [bold]ridiculous[/italic][/bold] repertoire of eyeglasses, acting as if he's the smartest producer ever to work in the theater

oh shit that formatting went wrong but you get my point

I thought Tom Schumacher had a Me Too complaint against him? What ever happened to that?

Love your sister Judith, Dana!

Cancel Tom Schumacher!

I learned via these boards that nobody really likes Dana Ivey. How do they feel about Judith?

Judith is beloved. William Ivey, not so much.

The song Watching All the Girls Go By is literal violence against Trans and binary and polyamorous...I mean against everybody whoever fucking lived.

Billie Hayes, Mammy Yokum in "Li'l Abner" on stage and in the movie (Charlotte Rae opened the show, but the role was written for Billie), has died at 96.

The song is Standing on the Corner but it is just as hostile.

So, after MOST HAPPY FELLA, what'll be the next mid-century show to be dramatically reinterpreted? I vote for CAMELOT.

Greenwillow set in a mental institution would be good

Pousse-Café...on Ice

Sweet Charity, set in the convent of the Little Sisters of Hoboken

70, Non-Binaries, 70

Funny Non-Binary

Tran of La Mancha

So, with Broadway hopefully coming back in the fall, should we expect the belated Tonys?

No; I’m deeply and resonantly triggered by this suggestion.

Are you a trans woman of color? You are not (I can tell).

Obviously, you cannot speak on the “Cis Tony Award”. Just stop.

We will tell you what to think and say when we say so!

R581 The twelfth of never.

Another Loesser musical classic- Trans and Binaries

Guys and Dolls is literal violence

Mary Poppins is the only musical that Disney have staged on Broadway that felt like a real and satisfying coherent book musical. And that was a co-production. Everything else - even the ones that contain some really great material - has been wildly and cluelessly uneven. They're all performed with the broadest brushstrokes, and they feel dumb, dumb, dumb.

I'd go as far as to say that The Circle of Life is one of the most extraordinary sequences in the history of the Broadway musical (MARY! I know) But fuck me - the rest of the show is an absolute slog to sit through. The Little Mermaid was an abortion. Beauty and the Beast and Aladdin are overblown theme park shows, missing all of the charm and wit of their original films. Tarzan was a hot mess, despite the beauty of the storm and the shipwreck and Josh Strickland's abs. And I've rarely been as bored by a show as much as I was by Frozen. That Hunchback at Paper Mill was a waste of a journey to NJ, too.

The only Disney property that I've seen on stage that came close to being great was a brief run of Pinocchio staged at the National Theatre in London a couple of years ago, directed by John Tiffany. It was strange and enchanting and sad. I'm unsure what the arrangement with Disney was, if it was a co-production or if they just helped with the financing, but I'm not that surprised it hasn't had a life anywhere else since. It was probably too subtle and nuanced for their intended market - as I assume the original Berlin production of Hunchback directed by James Lapine was considered to be. (I never saw this, but a bootleg has been of YT for years.)

All in all, Thomas Schumacher should consider himself to be one of the luckiest schmucks on Broadway.

[quote] All in all, Thomas Schumacher should consider himself to be one of the luckiest schmucks on Broadway.

Considering that the runs of Mermaid, Tarzan and Frozen were all so disappointingly short - especially considering the power of those titles - why does TS still behave like a marketing genius? Bad shows, short runs. We've all seen bad shows run longer on good marketing, and needless to say much better shows. So he must think that fancy stupid-ass glasses make him a marketing wizard?

I'd throw Mary Poppins on the trash heap with the other Disney stage titles as well, largely due to the terrible work by Stiles & Drewe that not only contributed deadly new songs but ruined most of the original Sherman Brothers material with "improvements." (They went on to do much the same with the Half a Sixpence revival in London a few years back). I think there is a real tension in the film, for these slightly awkward kids yearning for their father's love and attention. The kids in the stage version are like little show biz professionals without an ounce of vulnerability. Things happened that made little sense, like Mary Poppins leaving the house at the end of Act 1, only to return about five minutes into Act 2. I could go on with the things that irritated me, but I thought it squandered an opportunity as much as all of the rest of the Disney stage ventures.

The Broadway runs of the Disney shows aren't for financial success. They're for cachet ensuring licensing fees for stock, community, and school productions forever and ever.

R585, I agree with most of what you say, but like r587, I'd throw POPPINS on the trash heap as well, but note that you didn't mention NEWSIES in your post, which is the only Disney show I've ever enjoyed. Not a masterpiece by any means, but it had a scrappiness and energy and a sense of humor that's been missing from all the other shows. Supposedly, Schumacher and Disney were less involved with the initial production at Paper Mill, and if true, it clearly helped the show.

Thoughts?

I've been reading so many wonderful tributes on FB to Olympia Dukakis by friends who were former students of hers, about what a passionate acting teacher she was. And they all mention how unvarnished and tough her criticisms could be, with highly salted language, rolling eyes and a pointed finger, really shaking up the room and sometimes eliciting tears. But they all say how much they learned from her honesty and how it made them think more clearly and become better actors.

That kind of teaching style would be reviled and considered objectionable today. I find that very sad.

I've seen the film of Mary Poppins innumerable times and my favorite thing about has become Matthew Garber's performance. One of the best I've seen by a child. What a tragic end to a young life.

Cripes. How do your parents miss that you have hepatitis? You go yellow. Sounds like Matthew Garber needed Mary Poppins IRL.

He has one of the lines in the original movie that really tugs at the heart. I think he's the one who says to Mary, "I don't think father likes us at all." It's incredibly moving. Garber and Karen Dotrice (daughter of the late great actor Roy Dotrice I believe) are both excellent. It's that real, fragile quality they both have that was missing in the conceptualization and performances of the stage Banks children and made the stage version so flaccid. If nothing is at stake, who cares?

[quote]Mary Poppins is the only musical that Disney have staged on Broadway that felt like a real and satisfying coherent book musical. And that was a co-production. Everything else - even the ones that contain some really great material - has been wildly and cluelessly uneven. They're all performed with the broadest brushstrokes, and they feel dumb, dumb, dumb.

I think MARY POPPINS was good only by comparison. A lot of bad decisions were made in rewriting the original material.

[quote]I'd go as far as to say that The Circle of Life is one of the most extraordinary sequences in the history of the Broadway musical (MARY! I know) But fuck me - the rest of the show is an absolute slog to sit through.

I think there were enough good musical and staging moments throughout to make it a really good show. If that weren't true, I really don't think it would have run so long.

[quote]All in all, Thomas Schumacher should consider himself to be one of the luckiest schmucks on Broadway.

True, that. And P.S. I've read that he had no faith at all in one of the best Disney show to date, NEWSIES, and he was mostly responsible for the idiotic decision to close it early.

There is talk that Disney paid off Garber's family to say it was hepatitis. It was actually a tragic Bobby Driscoll ending and they couldn't afford two for their public image especially Poppins being so known and beloved. Driscoll is not probably well known today if at all. The contracting hepatitis in India story always seemed a bit strange to me.

So dark...

Screen tests...

[quote]I think there were enough good musical and staging moments throughout to make it a really good show. If that weren't true, I really don't think it would have run so long.

And to you I say, Cats.

[quote] you didn't mention NEWSIES in your post, which is the only Disney show I've ever enjoyed. Not a masterpiece by any means, but it had a scrappiness and energy and a sense of humor that's been missing from all the other shows. Supposedly, Schumacher and Disney were less involved with the initial production at Paper Mill, and if true, it clearly helped the show.

Yes from everything I have heard, they weren't involved very much and then jumped when it was good and again took credit for being smart. It wasn't their work and that's why it was good.

just in time for Bajour

Bajour