Cruel Summer!! Thoughts? Theories?

YOU KNOW THERE IS A THREAD ON IT. You’ve commented numerous times. Why make a new one? You ALWAYS do this psycho.

If OP did know about the other thread, not cool OP.

OP is CANCELED.

OP is a fat whore. The original thread is linked below.

I didn’t see the other thread. I looked for one but it didn’t pop up. Weird. Maybe I misspelled something?

Lets use this thread since the other was paywalled. Who the fuck is Anabelle? Is Kate mentally ill?

I want to know what happened to Kitty (Sal's wife from Madmen).

I just watched the preview. I was in middle school during these years. I was hoping for Cruel Summer to be on the trailer intro, but Garbage will due. Stupid Girl was more like 1995/96 I think. I thought the lead blond girl was Ava Phillipe, Reese and Ryan's daughter. I scrolled down to see the cast and was shocked it wasn't her. They could be twins.

Teens of the 90's - should I resubscribe to Hulu tonight for this? Is this worth it? I've very tempted, but I don't watch Gen Z badly pretending to be 90's if the plot isn't solid.

Yes. It's very good.

R9 It looks like you can watch the first two episodes for free on the FreeFrom app. They may be making them available two weeks after airing.

Sold! DL hasn't lead me too far away from good content when everyone is talking about it.

Why did the duplicate troll make this thread when the other is ongoing for weeks?

Very nice, R9. Thank you. Just did as you said and I'm going to watch now!

My husband and I love this show. We just wish it was on a streaming service instead. That way they could use actual 90’s music and imagery. Also could have filmed in better locations and included profanity, sex and smoking/substance use. Things that would make it more realistic.

[quote]That way they could use actual 90’s music and imagery.

They seem to have played the majority of the Cranberries' singles in the first two episodes, so I don't know what you're talking about with the first part.

The other thread is paywalled.

so, pay up, cheap bitch!

R13 Because the other thread is paywalled.

Loved! I absolutely did not see the twist in the first episode at all. And I totally believe the reveal. I binged 3 episodes tonight and have one more before I am caught up. Very pleasantly surprised.

"I just watched the preview. I was in middle school during these years. I was hoping for Cruel Summer to be on the trailer intro, but Garbage will due."

Hey R8! Of course you were in middle school during those years. "Garbage will due" was the clue.

I'm out of the loop in terms of Froy, although I've seen several threads on here dedicated to him. Is this THE Froy in the series? Is he an out gay IRL? He plays a good straight guy if so and I do think he's cute, but I don't find him worth endless threads though. I thought Brandon Flynn played a very believable straight guy in 13 Reasons Why. It seems like Gen Z can look past someone's sexuality and allow an out, gay actor to play straight without any issues. That's some progress. I also believe the racial integrations in Cruel Summer. This feels fairly accurate for the 90's. There was maybe one or two black families in a nice neighborhood and there might be a black friend in a social group. Did Jessica Biel write this? I'm impressed.

I don't know if that's entirely true. I think it's more true for actors based in the UK who work more in TV (Russell Tovey, Andrew Scott, Ben Whishaw etc.). Brandon doesn't seem to be in demand post 13RW.

Yes, it's THE Froy. He's not out, no.

How many Froys do you imagine are out there?

Froylan is an established name.

I meant in the universe of young actors subject to DL obsession.

The reason I was confused about Froy is that DLers seem to use Froy as an adjective for people as well, but since I am not interested in the thread or Froy until this show, I never understood the context and still don't.

Froy as an adjective, who are Lacy Chabert?

"Why did the duplicate troll make this thread when the other is ongoing for weeks?"

Look at the mental deficients who posted the last few posts about this fucking Froy retard and there's your answer, douchebag. That original thread isn't even about the show anymore but about his fucking nose.

The other thread is paywalled. I finished the 4th one. I think the the mothers are involved in some way. I like that this keeps you guessing.

If it wasn't for Froy, there would probably be no thread here.

Jeanette's brother is way hotter than Froy. I do not get the obsession.

Who is Annabelle?

R30 Although that's a good point, that's not the reason. The other thread was paywalled so I just bumped this thread.

R28 DLers only care about Froy because he is Madden's boytoy. Well, to be fair, Froy did have threads here on DL even before that. I guess they liked Froy because he was a good looking gayling.

R33 That actor is not gay, Froy is. Also, Froy is Madden's boytoy, hence the obsession.

Was Annabelle another girl in the basement or that seems unlikely. Could should have split and disassociated in to Annabelle to deal with the abuse. Is it linked to her mom? They really made Kate look rough in 1995 from her mini-me version of Reese Withspoon in the 93 sections.

I bet Kate had an obsession with the teacher and stayed there willingly or something like that. And Jeanette saw her there so she made up the kidnapping. Kate’s mom is a bitch, so it could have been to get away from her.

R38 I was wondering about that myself. She probably got DID from the kidnapping. Every time the abuse happened she split her personality into Annabelle, that means she can't remember it and she will look unreliable in court.

Nice interview with Chiara.

Well, it is not on the torrent sites yet. This bodes a drop in popularity.

This isn’t the thread for the show. The thread for the show is the one with nearly 500 comments 😊

R43 Asshole, that thread is already paywalled. We have to use this thread.

Ha! It's not out yet. Opps!

That thread is fucking pointless. No one is discussing the show on that thread.

Only a few hours away, Froy said his favorite scene that explains a lot about his character happens in episode five.

Jamie and Ben at the carnival made a cuter couple then Jamie and Kate.

There are only two episodes left, it seems like so much more has to happen before then.

Has the show abandoned the whole each episode is going to be shown from one girl’s point of view framework?

Too much of the fucking unreliable narrator bs.

Kate is obviously lying about her role in all this.

Why wasn’t Froy shirtless in the dunking tank: Missed opportunity!

Froylan’s acting is all chin.

Lol, I thought you were going to say chill.

Why is most of this thread one person? 😭

I can’t anymore.

Instead of just chatting on the ACTUAL THREAD, you know, the one with almost 500 comments, be did what he keeps doing, DUPLICATING because he think he gets paid for comments, and has to keep commenting himself.

Boo, the comments don’t count when it’s mostly you making them, even from another account. It’s YOU.

Oh, I didn’t realize there was a meatier one. This one came up first in search results.

Here I go, wish me luck.

I’m here cause I’m paywalled out of the other one.....

Only 2 episodes left?

Maybe they're doing a cliffhanger to set up season two.

I’m wondering if they filmed two endings, one for no renewal and one if they get renewed.

5 episodes left.

You all are gonna make fun of me, but I was moved during the scene where Jamie confesses he lied to Kate. It was very sweet and felt real.

I found a year late apology a little lame. To follow the structure, of course, but...hmmm....

How was it lame? Sometimes you confess things much later. Years later. Sometimes you never do.

They didn’t speak after she dumped him one year prior. It’s obvious when he sees her and she dunks him that is the first time he’s seeing her and her him, based on both their expressions and reactions.

He was also drunk and probably saw it as the perfect opportunity to be honest with her, while he still has her in front of him.

Opinions are like assholes.

I liked the scene.

Olivia Holt is gonna be a star. She’s very talented and has “it”. You naturally gravitate toward her in every scene. She’s also very pretty.

The scene where Jamie apologizes, there is a brief moment, when he says “me and Jeanette kissed” that her eyes widen in a very natural way, where she looks surprised. But you can tell it’s not by the fact they kissed, she knew that, but it was she was shocked he was admitting it.

You could read it off her face. Good acting.

R65 Does he present asshole?

R68 only to his roommate

The evil Vice Principal is super cute 😊

This was a very good episode. It was fun, too.

I agree that the scene between Jamie and Kate was touching. Froy uses his mouth a lot for emotional scenes but he also has a sad puppy quality to him in his approach that makes him endearing during scenes he has to be sensitive or vulnerable.

We finally see the moment the Vice Principle began grooming Kate, which is fantastic. What a fucking creep.

I did think it was ridiculous that a character in the 90s namedropped grooming.

God dorky Jeanette, “hey, Ho mister principal, is that Kate’s scrunchy, I can give it back to her for you!”

Jeanette is annoying but sort of sweet but you can see she’s envious of Kate.

“Grooming” has been a term used by psychologists for many years.

Am I the only one who likes Mallory?

For those who like things in chronological order. I hope they keep adding to this.

There is only one episode left? There is no way they can wrap this series up next week. This was a good episode, but there are a lot of loose threads dangling. Whoever posited that she might have willingly been a captor might have been right. As gorgeous and as rich as she is, Katie seems to be drifting alone, even in 93. Her mom's a whore, her stepdad who she loves has a daughter who hates her and she will always be first. The VP is the only one paying her any attention. Jeanette was too much of dweeb in 93 to be too evil. Also, we haven't even touch the catalyst for Jeanette's "she's all that" makeover. Will it be the scrunchie. I am enjoying this show. It has a "13 Reasons Why" feel to it, which was genius the first season, mediocre the second, and I couldn't make it through the third. This might be best as 2-3 seasons max.

Mr. VP probably reinforced the basement windows because he noticed someone (Jeanette) kept breaking in.

Kate imagined the relationship with Mr. VP and threatened to ruin his life when he rejected her advances. I wouldn't be surprised if he never touched her and she's just really mentally ill.

Kate likely killed Mr. VP and the local "good old boys" covered it up for the Wallis family.

I noticed that Jeanette's mother is rather obsessed with the Wallis family. I'm thinking she is disappointed in her own family and surroundings. I would totally believe she was thinking of dumping Jeanette's father for Kate's stepfather. (That was the story Kate's whore mother told.)

I am also shocked that they didn't cancel the boyfriend for his domestic abuse tendencies. He didn't just slap Jeanette, he charged out his front door to the end of his front yard to punch a hole through her head.

The boyfriend is a mediocre actor.

Why does the horsey blond girl talk like she has marbles in her mouth?

You must be referring to Harley Quinn Smith and her super enunciated nasal delivery. She is annoying. She's also rich, there is no reason for her weight.

Yes. How tall is she? She looks like a girl at Cornell we called "The Medieval Knight" - way back in the 80s before Game of Thrones. Her parents explain her looks. I kind of like her but can't understand why she talks like that? Has she overcome some huge speech impediment? Was her mouth malformed and corrected? It doesn't sound like affluenza to me.

And people listen to her podcast with that voice? People have too much time on their hands, perhaps.

Omg why are people who’ve commented on here many times acting like they don’t know who Froy is by this point. “The actor who plays the boyfriend”

As if we can’t see their posting history.

THERE ARE 5 LEFT.

Who is this moron who can’t count?

5 out of 10 episodes aired. That means 5 left. Not 1.

There are many media venues that have listed the series as only having seven episodes, including this current one which says the series concludes on May 25, 2021. Even IMDB is hokey, not listing the last three episodes by name, but having place markers instead.

It may have a cliffhanger and then come back later.

Yeah I see some places say 10 episodes and others say 7.

It may end with 7 as a cliffhanger and then come back and finish the season later

Yeah, I agree the dialogue about "safe spaces," "privilege," and "grooming" all feel like 2020s speak and not something anyone would have said in the early-mid 90s. Though, to be fair, I also need to grow up and educate myself.

Those are not 2020s talk. Some of you are very white and very privileged, and it shows.

R91 if anybody had been using those words in the 90s, it would have been white and privileged people.

No. R92. Safe spaces have been a thing for decades.

A lot of the vocabulary you hear in everyday lingo aren’t new words. They were not just created out of thin air. They are words, real words, that have been around for years. People just didn’t use them then outside of certain spaces or professions.

I can’t believe I have to explain this to grown men. Scary how uneducated you all are yet puff your chests out because you have a degree. A degree that has done you zero favors.

Not all people are obsessing over this ridiculous "boyfriend actor" like you are, you salivating little twerp. He is only a legend in your head.

[quote] People just didn’t use them then outside of certain spaces or professions.

Exactly. That's the point. Those words may have technically existed, but the likelihood they were being used by these characters in 1990s Texas is slim to none.

The characters used the words because they learned them in therapy

NOW can we watch Clerks?

LOL

I get it.

You are fine, doll!

smooches!

I’ve never seen Clerks or it’s sequel.

It's not about if words or terms existed then, it's whether they were commonly heard or used.

AGAIN. Kate and Mallory learned these terms and words from their therapist.

I also heard this from my therapist - SHUT UP ALREADY ABOUT IT!!!

Lol, I just now got the joke that Mallory wants to watch Clerks, very meta Cruel Summer, very meta!

I liked this last episode a lot

R94 his name is FROY, asshole.

R102 Did the bartender in the gay club also learn it from Kate and Mallory's therapist?

R107 Actually her drag name is “Safe Space.”

Safe spaces were an actual thing r107. And the term existed. People created “safe spaces” where LGBT and minorities can go and be safe.

Use Google.

And Kate's sister must have learned about white privilege in the critical race theory course she took in Texas in 1993. She wouldn't have had Google then, but I'm sure she read up on it in her Funk & Wagnalls.

RACIAL COURSES EXISTED BACK THEN. It’s scary how uninformed you are.

Jeanette should have listened to her brothers advice

R112 Jeanette should have disregarded incest taboos and got fucked endlessly by her brother.

R109 LGBT wasn't even in common use then.

Ok r114, Drag Queens, Gay men and Lesbians. Better?

Too many unfortunate events in this story to ever see a satisfying resolution. I have a theory on the VP but I'm afraid some of you might get offended.

I appreciate Jamie's vulnerability. Froy doesn't play the typical jock (probably because he can't) but I like it.

I hope it’s revealed that Jamie writes poetry or paints in his spare time. His gay bud best fiend Ben must have such a crush on him. I hope that’s one of the reveals at some point.

I think Froy is playing Jamie like a real person vs the archetype of what a jock should be. Those TV jocks are always perfect looking and assholes but nothing more or else.

He’s playing Jamie like he’s a real person.

He’s got a lot of issues but in 1995 he seems at his most vulnerable (and unhinged).

Jamie apologizing to Kate made me forgive him for lying in the first place (what kind of asshole makes someone think they’re crazy Instead of just being honest?). Froy was lovely in this scene.

And I love the direction. Love the lights, love that when he starts telling her the truth all the background noise fades away and all she hears are his words. It’s nice.

“Racial courses” would not have been taught at a public high school in 1990s Texas.

Go back to Oberlin. I’m sure there’s a sushi petition that needs your signature.

R120 the step sister is not in HS. She’s in college. And she’s home from college for the summer. She just came back. She goes away for college.

R116 - what’s your theory on the VP?

Oh God. I text my sisters last week how they should give the show a watch. Tonight they text me in our group chat how they binged and they’re going on and on about how much they hate Mallory 😂😂😂

R106, no one cares, CUNT.

The guy who played Jeanette’s date is Harley Quinn’s real life boyfriend

While this show has a wide audience in age, the demographic for this is YA/Gen Z. They are doing this nostalgia shows so that it crosses over to their parent. Of course the kids are going to be using woke terminology speaking to that audience. On Cobra Kai, it is the reverse. A older audience trying to get the younger gen z kids on board. In this case, Jonnie is unapologetically not PC and trains the kids not be either. Different audience demos.

I can't believe I got sucked into watching this, and yet here I am. I mainly avoid shows about teens, but as a child and teen of the '90s, the '90s angle sucked me in. I'm enjoying the use of music.

Time for Clerks?

R128 go watch it by your damn self! I have things to accomplish!

My sisters keep going on and on about their hate for Mallory and wanna know why Harley Quinn came out so ugly 🙄

One is indifferent to Jeanette while the other wants to punch her and hates her.

One is indifferent to Jamie and the other thinks he’s a massive piece of shit and hates him.

They both like the parents as a whole and the dads new GF.

They adore Kate and are “Team Kate” lol.

They like the black gay friend.

Poor Mallory.

Mallory is every that’s wrong about nepotism in Hollywood.

Oh God. She probably auditioned and earned the role.

Again, Harley Quinn is head and shoulders above Billie Lourd, if Billie can have a career Harley will do fine. Someone needs to play the off beat looking friend.

R133 agree. She is much better than Billie Lourd and I think she would do well on a Ryan Murphy show

Am I the only one who hates Poor Little Rich Girl Kate?

I love Kate

Ugh. Hate is a strong word. I'll just say that she annoys me for the same reason Sam from Cobra Kai does -- little miss goody two shoes.

I hate Kate. But I love Brooklyn Sudano, the bartender lady. (She's Donna Summer's daughter, btw.)

I like then bartender a lot. I like Kate. She’s not too good. She was a sweet girl who was popular and adored. Those types exist. See Candace Cameron.

[quote] See Candace Cameron.

🤮🤮

I don’t trust the bartender.

Harely Quinn isn’t attractive, she is built like a moose and her acting is just mediocre at best. She definitely is a classic case of nepotism. There is no real talent there. Billie Lourd is better. At least she isn’t as big as an Ox next to her peers. There is no way either of these women would have a career if their parents weren’t famous. Nepotism is shit.

[quote] Harely Quinn isn’t attractive, she is built like a moose and her acting is just mediocre at best.

She nailed being that weirdo, quirky '90s chick in high school though.

Who is harder to look at, Harley Quinn Smith or that spooky therapist lady? I can't decide.

I don’t even think Harley is that ugly.

I don't think Harley Quinn is bad looking but her acting -- oy vey.

R118 I don't think Jamie is a jock? I admit I don't pay enough attention when I'm watching TV sometimes, but I didn't notice that he was a jock. But they still shouildn't have shown Froy throwing a ball because even if he's not playing a jock that was just unfortunate.

Jamie isn’t a jock. He’s just popular.

He’s the big man on campus.

Can you be BMOC without being a jock?

I don't think you can be BMOC without being a jock.

Kate would not have stayed with Jamie anyway. He appears to be of a lower class.

I think we will have to wait for mid to late August scenes to see if Jamie starts football practice to find out if he’s a jock or not, this is after all Texas and though not built to be a linebacker, he could conceivably be the slim hipped quarterback. I could definitely see 1993 Jeanette being in marching band lusting after him during similar practice alongside the team and over the weeks transforming into the 1994 Jeanette and catching his eye.

Yes. They’re not in school right now. So no one knows what any of them do in school.

But you can certainly be popular without playing sports.

"But you can certainly be popular without playing sports."

But you might poop out at parties

Many popular people aren’t on sports teams. Some popular people are simply popular because of their looks

[quote]I think we will have to wait for mid to late August scenes to see if Jamie starts football practice to find out if he’s a jock or not, this is after all Texas and though not built to be a linebacker, he could conceivably be the slim hipped quarterback. I could definitely see 1993 Jeanette being in marching band lusting after him during similar practice alongside the team and over the weeks transforming into the 1994 Jeanette and catching his eye.

Nerdy girl in marching band lusting after the popular quarterback. I doubt that plot has ever been attempted before in the history of YA fiction or TV. I hope they try it. But I would advise this show to keep Froy away from all attempts to throw balls, in the future.

[quote] I can't believe I got sucked into watching this, and yet here I am. I mainly avoid shows about teens, but as a child and teen of the '90s, the '90s angle sucked me in. I'm enjoying the use of music.

This. If there had not been the 90's spin and soundtrack, I would not have given this a second thought. I am really enjoying the flashbacks and music.

[quote] (Harley Quinn) She nailed being that weirdo, quirky '90s chick in high school though.

It's true! Being an out gay in the late 90's, I was stuck with these types of chicks as friends. On the plus side, they were good friends that weren't afraid to befriend the loser gay who had no friends. On the flip side, a lot of these girls were very damaged as well and could be very toxic, just like this character.

Yeah, I guess every gay kid had a hefty gal like HQS for a friend in high school. I guess these actors all look somewhat like the age they’re supposed to be, not like that guy on Ginny and Georgia playing a sophomore and has crows feet.

Harley isn’t even heavy set. They add fat to her on the show

Other than Kate, I remember the girls being a lot thinner in high school in the late 90's. Thin was very in, I remember. I think it was around 96/97 that we had CK1, the heroin chic girls like a young Kate Moss, that boyish asian chick that scissored with Angelina Jolie. Janette would have been considered a fattie by 90's popular girl standards and even Kate becomes chunky after the trauma by 95. This could have been more an LA thing.

[quote]Yeah, I guess every gay kid had a hefty gal like HQS for a friend in high school.

I didn't

R159 in Brooklyn you had every body type and color. It was beautiful.

R160 were you out?

Senior year is when I ditched the Harley Quinn's, became a raver boy, and then looked down on everyone in HS. I started sneaking into gay clubs and life became good.

You got to give it Chiara and costume and makeup, she must chant to and will herself to be short and pudgy during ‘93 and ‘95 and then long and sleek in ‘94 and she pulls it off, in not quite physically, but how she portrays herself and her attitude in the performance.

Froy has the built of a baseball player, but his character is not the typical HS jock. He did a similar thing in Initiation and Teen Wolf.

He needs to play gay eventually. 9-11 Lonestar has a fantastic gay couple. He could play a TK sort of character.

With Chiara in 94, they do tighter shots. There were a few body shots in the last episode and I though she looked huge. Originally I was trying to figure out if maybe they shot the years independently and had the girls (Kate and Chiara) slim down for 93/94 and then had them bulk a little for 95. It's probably just angles, lighting, and styling. When Kate looks her roughest, everything has a blue hue to it.

Chiara isn’t huge. At all.

She’s normal. They make her look bigger.

Also, she’s a much weaker actress than some of the others. She has the same 2 expressions at all times.

Did anyone figure out if next week is that last episode or is this 10 parts. Information varies online.

R161 No, I wasn't out, but it was the 80s, not the 90s,so even fewer kids were out. Actually none, in my school. Also there weren't many fat girls in the school. But I was in a friend group that was not the popular kids but sort of straight attractive girls and mostly straight acting gay or bi boys, if that makes sense. But we only came out later.

Lunch table buds!

It’s mind blowing that they would film all three years sometimes in one day, but it sounds like they were very good at prepping the actors about where in the scene and sequence they would be. It must have been hardest on the set dressers, can you imagine switching Jeanette’s bedroom back and forth constantly? And there was a scene of Kate pulling apart a show ribbon and I thought to myself, don’t go to far destroying all those, you’ll need them again for the room in an earlier shot. And then she stopped after pulling a few streamers off, lol.

Jamie's beat friend Ben is the quarterback, if I'm remembering correctly from one of the first episodes. Jamie is probably also supposed to be on the football team.

*best friend

R172 Freudian slip, I’m hoping they beat off together and at some point that comes to light. Vince will be very jealous.

Is it possible the VP has taken Kate hostage for other than sexual reasons? The show hasn't shown him being sexual with her when she's in his house, have they? Or even trying to be? Has he realy been "grooming" her in the earlier time frame, or is it something else? Has it been suggested he might be her father? Blake Lee is 37.

Also is it possible the mother of Jeannette had Kate kidnapped? Based on her feelings about Kate's mother or family?

When I read the plot description of the show originally, I thought of Wanda Webb Holloway, from Channelview, Texas, who attempted to hire a hitman to kill the mother of her daughter's junior high school cheerleading rival. Not the same story, but it had to do with small town high school rivalries.

I’m thinking Kate’s abduction and the abductions of Katie and Missy on Mare of Easttown have a lot in common and us presuming it’s sexual is just where we go to as a culture, but is really a misdirect.

[quote] Has it been suggested he might be her father? Blake Lee is 37

On his tombstone, I believe it indicated that he was 31. If Kate was 15, he could have knocked someone up at 16. They are from Texas. although the VP is also from somewhere else.

When does this show actually air new episodes? I watch it on Hulu.

I think it is on Hulu Wednesday. They air it first on the other app on Tuesdays.

[quote]They are from Texas. although the VP is also from somewhere else.

I thought of that, though there are a lot of ways around that.

The VP is from some small town that I can't remember because at the carnival when Jeanette bumps into him she mentions his hometown, which she found out by snooping through his yearbooks, when she was walk thing through the house. He gave her a death stare and then quickly got them to pay the carnival game.

I may have mentioned this already, but a read an interview with Blake Lee and he said the last script of the series (where some things are revealed) surprised him a lot and he didn't see the revelations coming.

I'm guessing this will end up seeming like a show that had a fairly simple plot, when we look back on it, but by holding back facts and revealing them slowly, the simple plot will have been made to seem msyterious and complex . It even seems like that now. In a way, it's a gimmick. But well done.

R178, thanks! I'm actually looking forward to the next episode of this ridiculous show.

What's her name, Jessica Biel, actually produces some decent TV. Maybe she's found her calling..

It's not that great but it's better than a lot of what you find on Freeform.

It’s awesome

I'm too beautiful to be in front of the camera.

Jessica looked beautiful in her 20s

Anyone else feel bad for Jeanette?

I was late catching up on the episode, but that scene of Jeanette chasing Kate through the hall of mirrors was awesome.

Who knew Freeform could do a show this artistically?

R187, I do. The ugly duckling from a working-class home finds her 15 minutes of popularity, only to have it ripped away and becomes a pariah.

And really, would people IRL be so harsh with her for just not reporting something?

Some good back and forth.

R189 yes. You would be shocked. Especially the people in her town who probably see her as obsessed because it seems she stole Kate’s life

R188 there have been a few scenes that were done well. That was one.

Also, the scene where Jamie apologizes. At first you can hear noise in the background etc. but once he starts apologizing, all the noise fades and all she hears is his voice.

No chatter about the upcoming episode tonight or Froy taking over a fan’s IG for the day?

Froy throwing the baseball at the dunk tank was the best part of this past episode. Hey girl, hey!

The dark look for 1995 makes it almost impossible to watch. It looks so tacky and cheap. Cinematography for all three years should look the same. But I guess that would get too confusing for your average viewer.

Oh, look at Vilmos Zsigmond at R195 with a lesson in cinematography!

This show is surprisingly good.

I approve!

I kind of wished Jeanette would have seen Jamie earlier frolicking shirtless in the fountain and taken away by the mall cops as motivation for claiming to steal the CD so she could then end up in mall prison as well to meet him. Barring that, her motivation for claiming she took it instead of Vince would have been realizing a black male teen stealing would have been a huge issue, but her as a white girl would probably get away with it and she did it out of altruism.

Is owning a seedy little bar supposed to be impressive? Bartender Angela is annoying.

R196 Well, you can go fuck yourself

I hope Jeanette's mom is getting some good airline pilot dick.

R200 yes. It is impressive to own your own business, no matter what it is.

I like her.

I’m happy Jamie wasn’t her motivation to get in trouble. She did it with good reason vs to impress the boy

I liked the episode. We saw more of Jeanette’s parents and what led to them splitting. Looks like next week we see more of Kate and her mother’s relationship. I’m excited for that one.

Someone owning a business is not impressive. It is the level of success they achieve. Angela does not appear to be too successful.

I am suspicious of Angela and wouldn’t be surprised if she set Jeanette up.

Angela set no one up and she seems successful. She just opened that bar, or have you forgotten? She’s new to town in 1994 and in the 1995 scenes her bar is open with people coming in and out. It’s a new bar still.

Some of you just need to bitch about the black character.

She’s far more successful that stay at home mom, and knows what she wants vs mom.

[quote] Some of you just need to bitch about the black character.

Wow.

R209 it’s the truth. Out of all the characters on this show their focus of hate is fucking Angela?!

Her behavior is suspicious in the context of a show like this. Nobody’s going after Kate’s step-father or Vince. On the other hand, Kate’s half-sister is also shady as hell.

We saw Kate’s half sister is actually the one who she’s speaking to on the computer, without Kate knowing. She’s looking out for her and making sure she’s ok from afar.

The mall shop mom was a stretch for me. So to seduce the principal, she told him a secret that A) makes her a sociopath and B) would blow up her life if this secret she shared with a near-stranger ever got out.

I don’t get why Jeanette thinks she can get away with just waltzing into an occupied home. This time there were lights on.

R214 I don't get what the thrill was

She knows it’s wrong, but she gets a high from it

r210, get a grip. We've been discussing this show and the characters in good and bad terms. People have commented on the whore mother, the lying, fat Jeanette, the manipulative Kate, and Mallory the nepotism moose. You weren't crying HATE!!1 then, were you? Save your fake outrage.

Mallory has to have a hand in all this

Jeanette's mother married and raised a family. She is apparently now working on her career after her son left for college. I don't think she feels the need to own a small bar in hicksville to think herself a success.

Her career as a middle-aged flight attendant?

I losing patience. Nothing significant has been revealed in ages. Too slow-moving.

R220 thank you.

I don’t see why owning a bar is so bad. My friend Robert opened one on Myrtle Beach and now has 3, owns 2 homes etc.

People drink. You make $$$

I love it. And LOL at you all believing “7 episodes” hahahaha

You're slagging off flight attendants? Do you know where you are?

If owning a bar is so pathetic, being a flight attendant pushing 50 isn’t something to be proud of

I do like that Jeanette finally grew some balls and threatened that trashy mom.

What does the whore mother do for work? They are quite wealthy.

It makes no sense that the trashy mom would have threatened to testify against Jeanette in the first place.

It makes perfect sense. Trashy mom loves attention and feeling important. Jeanette also kept calling her house, kicking her off dial up.

She simply forgot what Jeanette knows?

The trashy mom seems to have quite the lifestyle working for what looks like a Forever 21. I guess she really is making bank off those child support payments.

Trash mom doesn't appear to have an enviable lifestyle. Now, whore mom on the other hand.

R214 Jeanette feels free to go into the VP house because she heard the mom basically black mailing him to go out on a date at seven, but as the mom mentions as they are coming in he called and asked her to meet earlier, and Jeanette wasn’t aware of the time change.

I think the question is why she feels she can just waltz in and out of a house that doesn't belong to her, whether the owner is present or not. It is still a strange thing to do.

She wants to see Mr. Harris naked.

R234 Well, I think she’s starting to see that she has white girl privilege, she got caught by the VP and was smart and justified being there and talked her way out of it, and then with the CD she managed to do the same. She’s getting an adrenaline rush from it and secure in her ability. This is what’s going to help her evolve into the 1994 Jeanette and embrace the pretty girl privilege that she’s seen with Kate.

There is a snippet video on youtube that shows Martin surrounded by police as he is walking out of a mall. One scene shows 95 Jeanette sitting on a car with Jamie, talking. Another shows Jeanette screaming at Kate that she ruined her life.

Aztecs do like to kill people and eat their hearts.

Froy did it!

Mallory moose is going to show off her ass in short shorts next episode. Get excited.

Am I the only one who wonders why a single, young male would need or want such a big family-sized house, and have it all completely furnished too? It could be that it was a good house for keeping kidnapped girls, I guess.

I read another theory that Mr. Harris is maybe the one with DID as a result of him being abused when younger. And Annabelle is his separate identity, who started coming out as Kate became more belligerent.

R240 why does anyone buy a large house? Why do rich people buy 20 bedroom mansions? Some people like them. But no one needs them.

Stupid question.

To the fucking moron who claims to watch the show but has asked why Jeanette always goes into Martin’s house, you either do not watch or are a stupid fuck. Jeanette literally stated why in an episode. She said why she would do it.

Jesus. If you’re not gonna watch get off the thread.

[quote] And Annabelle is his separate identity, who started coming out as Kate became more belligerent.

You may be onto something there. Shades of Norman Bates.

It’s not really, R241, when you think about a 31 year-old being able to afford such a home and then furnish it all. On a vice principal salary. Anyway, it’s just a musing about a show I know is fictional . I’m not seeking heavy debate on it. No need to get your panties in a wad.

R242 Omg, maybe the person missed the episode. Calm down, it's just a cheesy Freeform TV show.

I don't get why everyone on the show rags on Jeanette's mom, as if she's so bizarre or unseemly. I mean, she's a little mousy, but she seems pretty mild and normal to me...

Doesn’t matter what network the show is on. If you’re gonna watch, then watch. Stop asking stupid questions that are addressed within the show and claim you’re watching. And why would you skip an episode to a show like this? This is a series you watch each episode to watch things slowly unfold. It’s not a show where each episode has a new story, like Law and Order.

Watch the series and enjoy with us or get lost and stop commenting on a show you’re not even watching. Who does that?

Jeanette’s mother is hardly ragged on. Who ragged on her besides the one girl because Jeanette said that her mother was lying?

Cindy was always popular and adored. People are looking at her funny because of her daughter.

R244 a house that like would barely cost 6 figures in 1990s TX.

[quote] Who ragged on her besides the one girl because Jeanette said that her mother was lying?

Kate's mom.

R250 because Cindy remembers her from HS, when she was a loser who idolized Cindy.

We need more Froy.

The dad is starting to come off as sleazy.

Didnt Cindy also say that Kate’s moms dead husband had eyes for her at one point too? Kate’s mom doesn’t like Cindy because she reminds her of what she once was (a loser with no friends) and probably resents her for it all too.

Kate's mother mentioned not wanting to have to shop generic again. Sounds like she went through a rough time before her gold digging paid off.

She mentioned opening her legs a little wider than most for Kate's stepfather.

They probably struggled after the father/hubby died r255

Oh fuck off R208 with the racist accusations. Don’t project your diseased thoughts on me, cunt.

Angela could have been carrying on with Jeanette’s father before she took over the bar. There’s a lot we don’t know about yet.

Mallory is the worst fucking friend. Pushes people to do illegal shit, then leaves them holding the bag. A miserable bitch who needs everyone around her to be miserable as well.

Vince and Mal should be shot for buying that Oriental Trading necklace as a birthday gift. Could they not afford something better?

Bringing the bartender into the house so soon (and while the daughter is going through something) is pretty fucking low.

The whore mother dresses way too young for her age.

Many people bring people around their kids too soon.

I find many women like Kate’s mom dress “too young”

Did anyone else laugh when Jamie punched Jeanette?

Interesting

“There are only 7 episodes” lmaoooo I told you all that was bullshit

I am NOT liking a Jeanette and Jamie rekindling.

Why not? Because he hit her?

They aren’t a cute couple and mismatched in every way.

Cindy was obviously a fan of Silence of the Lambs, seeing as how quick she was to look snoop inside of Jeanette's ballerina music box.

Good for Cindy Turner, leaving that ungrateful family of assholes behind.

Martin is gay. It was all in Kate's head.

I think the show doesn't have the highest budget, but I agree with someone earlier about the quality of the cinematography. The show looks murky, to me. Not just 1995, but all the years. The compositions aren't that great, either. The sound, as well, is kind of unpleasant. Some of the songs sound better on recordings than they do on the show. Some of the dialogue is partially obscured by background noise or music. Maybe all this is intentional, just the style of the show. I don't know.

I love it.

r212

small thing but I thought they are step sisters not half sisters

R273 you’re correct

La Mom stole the show in this last one. I’ve grown to like most characters.

The return of juicy event television, feels good to wait.

I think the father is the best looking guy on this series.

The dad is handsome. Despite his (for me, anyway) a resemblance to Ken Olin, who I loathe. Speaking of event television, what have the ratings been like for the more recent episodes?

I don’t think they have been saying live viewing ratings because most people are watching on Hulu r277

Michael Landes. He started as a boy on Wonder Years. He's been on TV ever since. He was a cute twink. Then sometime in is 30s or later, age turned him into handsome

R278 I thought streaming ratings exist, though. As well as DVR ratings and other stuff like that.

I’m watching this right now. Some of the characters look too much alike. On more than one occasion I have said yo myself, “who’s that guy again?”

Also it seems very femmy and the whole Jeanette turner rot in hell thing — is the show runner gay? Because that’s the gayest thing a character has ever said.

Ok just checked — yes he’s gay. The show has such a gay vibe, lol.

Are you gender identifying a tv show?

Get some help.

Shut up, stupid frau cunt.

I think we know what type the showrunner gets hard for. Jeanette’s brother, Kate’s boyfriend, even the vice principal all look very very similar.

R283 He said the show has a femmy, gay vibe. Which gender is that?

Those three guys look nothing alike, Helen Keller.

Oh let fish-stink do her schtick, r285. It’s why the gash is here after all.

R286 Which three guys?

Yeah the guys look nothing alike.

Actually these two guys do sort of resemble each other, in a superficial way - Froy and Nathaniel. And this is an interesting shot.

They look absolutely nothing alike outside of having white skin and dark hair

Blake Lee is hot, even though he plays a deranged freak here.

R291They don't have dark hair, they both have sandy-colored brown hair. Both have blue eyes, and they're the same height, and seem to be about the same age. And they both look white. As I said, a superficial resemblance.

People said the same thing about AHS Hotel — Murphy’s boytoys all resembled each other. Which guy is that again?

Definitely the case in Cruel Summer too.

They look absolutely nothing alike.

Now he’s replying to himself. He really needs help.

Menopause is painful but don’t inflict it on us.

Is this a black poster turning the tables on us white crackers? All white boys look alike?

The guys on this show don’t look alike though. It’s weird anyone would try claiming that

THESE GUYS LOOK NOTHING ALIKE

They actually don’t look alike

R296 (and R295, and R291) If you mean me, I was replying to you.

That photo of the brother at r300 is great but he doesn’t look like that on the show. And Froy is in an angle. Face front they look nothing alike. Being white doesn’t make you look alike.

Most people who play siblings on TV look "nothing alike" either, unlike real siblings, who often do. But shows often choose people who bear a minor resembalnce to each other, same hair color, eye color, skin color, etc.

R301 is proof positive that fish don’t really see men.

R303 your tampon just fell out.

I see men. And see the differences in their faces.

You clearly just see skin color. Sad. So sad.

Jon, yes, you need to grow up. You’re too old to be trolling on a site where the majority of the people are in their 50s or older. You’re not the young ingenue you want the site to believe you are. It’s sad that you very clearly have no one in your life, no job, no one to love and no one who loves you, but that is the fault of no one but yourself.

Maybe get off the internet and get a job. Maybe it will help you

Go light a candle for Shanann, r307.

Jon? lol!

Did we like this show? I found it really hard to follow.

R310 why are you speaking in past tense? It’s still on air.

R311 Is it? I'm catching up on DVR. Whatever. What do you think of it?

Is it just me, or does nothing really happen on this show. Still watching but....

This show is all about building to the Big Reveal at the end, I guess. It will probably be a good one, but I'm beginning to wonder if it really needed 8 hours or so (over 10 episodes) to get to that. There are a lot of weeks when not a lot seems to happen.

I enjoyed each episode. It’s called character development. Any adult should love seeing a show actually develop its characters.

It’s possible to combine character development with plot.

Because every adult should have the same tastes in everything...eyeroll

You fangurls need to get a grip.

And you haters can stop watching and get lost.

You get lost ,cunt. Cuntalot over at your tappytalk. We are grown ass gay men and can see fangurl bullshit immediately. AND call you out. Go make a tiktok about it and let's explore your SJW feelings about the show.

Today are you exploring your trans-character identity as Jeanette as Kate today?

Must be so confusing, but not for you as you are schizo already.

R319 you’re a grown ass man? Then why are you on the internet arguing about a teen show? Shouldn’t you be acting like an adult?

[quote]Any adult should love seeing a show actually develop its characters.

I's not even aimed at adults, it's a Freeform show literally marketed to teens. But regardless, we all have our opinions.

What's the deal with the snow globe?

[quote] What's the deal with the snow globe?

It probably plays the music that was on the recording Froy played her.

Was Kate visible in the window in the tape the AP destroyed?

R324 yes. In one of the windows behind him you see her

Is it too much to ask that they somehow figure out for Vince and Ben to get whatever approximation of a happy ending an interracial gay teen couple in 1995 Texas can get?

I wonder if either actor is gay. They have good chemistry.

R326 because the interracial aspect would be the issue, not the gay part? Even if both were white they wouldn’t get a happy ending.

R324, thanks!

I like the gay storyline, although I don't think it's very true to form that these two boys would be holding hands in 1995 small town Texas in front of peers. Heck, it would even be a stretch for them to be doing that in a big city back then.

When did they hold hands in front of peers? They didn’t n

Didn't they hold hands briefly while the jock was in the stretcher?

The black boy grabbed the white boys hand and dramatically announced he was coming in the ambulance with his wounded true love. White boy flinched and pushed away the hand hold and said - yeah, no, that's not happening in front of everyone.

So no one saw the reasoning. So they’re fine.

[quote][R326] because the interracial aspect would be the issue, not the gay part? Even if both were white they wouldn’t get a happy ending.

I'm just saying it's a double-whammy. They'd have issues whether they were gay or a hetero interracial couple, and to combine them both is...

OTOH, check out this disclaimer that Freeform put up before their contractual obligated airing of The 700 Club.

R333 and the same can be said about them being a GAY COUPLE.

A gay couple would be far more controversial than an interracial one. One was still illegal, one wasn't..

Did guys make physical moves on other guys within minutes of meeting them in 1994?

^In high school, I mean

R336 Yes

R336 if they were certain the other guy was into it/them, yes.

Stupid question. Still the case now.

Neither one is out. They don’t know each other. I don’t think it’s a dumb question. I think they would be more cautious.

They clearly could tell there was a chemistry there from the small interactions prior.

R333, I noticed that disclaimer this week, as well. Hysterical.

Is Froy just a really bad actor, or his character supposed to be kind of dopey and borderline special needs?

…. He is fine

Blake Lee and his husband are a cute couple.

Blake Lee is very good at this role

R343 I'm kind of surprised at how often he hasn't been good. All the other actors seem to have a clear characterization but he just seems to be confused, or like it's a rehearsal instead of a performance.

Because the character Jamie himself is all over the place with each year…

R348 Not a good excuse. Both main girls are very different with each year, so is HQS's chararcter.

But they aren’t Jamie…

Jaime is an under-realized character.

I like Froy as Jamie. He feels like a lost, vulnerable teenage boy growing up in a single parent home with no dad.

Tonight’s episode is so good so far.

R351 That's when an actor has to bring more to it.

I wonder if Froy related to this script thinking of when he was quarantined with Richard for weeks.

Blake Lee is very convincing as a heterosexualist.

Excellent episode.

[quote] I like Froy as Jamie. He feels like a lost, vulnerable teenage boy growing up in a single parent home with no dad.

Overcompensating for his uncomfortable feelings about his best friend by always having a popular girlfriend ?

The popular gf comes naturally when you’re the schools IT boy…

This was a very good episode

Froy is clearly the worst actor on the show. He's particularly outclassed when in a scene with either of the two leads.

The show runner is a Kmart Ryan Murphy.

The female characters are all cardboard cutouts of negative stereotypes of women cherished by gay men, which is FINE, but it’s all executed in such a pedestrian by-the-numbers manner.

The male characters are all very similar and all obviously the show runners type.

“Jeanette Turner I hope you ROT in HELL!” It’s drama brought to you by Publix.

Actually I think the show has done a tremendous job at building these characters into 3 dimensional people. They feel like real people. This is what I like about this show so much, it is not plot driven, it is character driven.

Also, every show or movie has a weak link. Get over it. This is nothing special or new.

So Kate wasn't held against her will for at least 100-something days. Did Jeanette even see her?

R363 based on the scene, Kate clearly sees Jeanette but not the other way around, unless we don’t see the moment Jeanette and her “made eye contact”.

I still don’t understand what “thrill” Jeannette gets from going into her assistant principal’s house.

I don’t either R365 unless she has a crush on him, or she felt she had to go back to steal something to prove something to Mallory.

Remember, Mallory wound up in possession of the snow globe.

Some people get a thrill when doing something they can get in trouble for if caught

Too many people have been in that house. Other than Kate, there's Jeanette, her father (broke down and needs to use the phone? Okay, if you say so), Vince. Who else? Has Ben been there? It's almost like they're all involved in some conspiracy. Is it going to be an ending like Murder On The Orient Express? They all killed him?

The mystery isn’t finding out who killed that pedo, it’s finding out which girl is lying.

R361 The show runner is a woman. Tia Napolitano.

R369 Except I stopped caring about which girl is lying about 5 episodes ago.

Good catch. Hmmmm

This past episode was great. Blake Lee and Olivia Holt were terrific

In addition to the pearls, there was another possible clue.

When Kate finally got to the window to look out after Jeannette made her exit, she sees someone on a bike peddling away. But there's a playing card flapping in the spokes. Jeannette's bike didn't have one of those. Mallory's did.

Yes. Mallory is the one Kate saw but she thinks it was Jeanette.

I agree with this person

I hate when actors "share" mundane things in a profound way, like the difference between guilt and shame. It sounds so pretentious.

R379 what are you referencing?

R380 I'm referencing the talking heads in R374

This show is a lot more interesting and clever than I ever thought it would be.

It's just a personal peeve I guess but when actors get all talky about the motivations of their characters, it just makes me tune out. And I used to act, so I'm not unsympathetic to actors. It just seems to be a lot of blather, though. I don't know if anyone really needs to hear it.

R383 usually they’re answering a question

R384 They weren't answering a question in the video. It's standard promo now for actors to give these little educational lectures about how their characters think and behave. I don't know when it started, I think around the time shows like Entertainment Tonight became a thing.

Why do the videos in the video store have no cover art?

Ok now you’re just looking for any reason to bitch

No—It’s been bugging me. They all have identical white covers and a mostly displayed spine out. That’s not how video stores worked.

Copyright, most likely.

I found the last episode to be claustrophobic (which I guess was the point). Too much of the same two characters inside of that drab house, although I get that this was necessary exposition. I guess I prefer it more when there are more multiple characters and they are switching time periods.

374 They should have had Froy discuss the closet and shame - he knows all about it. How old is he IRL - he seems quite young in that clip.

R391 23

R390 I found it claustrophobic, which means it did it’s job. The episode is supposed to make you feel uncomfortable and stuck etc.

I loved it. I truly felt creeped out during certain moments. Blake Lee truly killed it this episode, and if this series were on a channel like HBO his performance would be considered for award nominations

Was it confirmed in the story that Martin had previous victims?

I'm not even sure he "groomed" Kate to kidnap her. I think he's just a teen fucker - a pig with no boundaries. And he goes so far he has to kidnap her or his life is ruined.

He is clearly sexually attracted to minors. He even speaks to her like she’s a little girl at times. He seems so aroused by fucking a little girl.

Ok. My theory is Mallory gets mad at Jeanette, steals the globe from her and goes to return it to spite Jeanette, who bragged to Mallory about stealing it. She’s wearing a black hoodie like Jeanette was and on a bike. Mallory sees Kate there but says nothing. Kate thinks it’s Jeanette. Mallory befriended Kate because she needs to protect herself.

Mallory genuinely seems to like Kate and vice versa.

Mallory may also feel guilt. And she grew to genuinely like Kate.

But we shall see.

I don’t think Mallory will see Kate but will hear her, and gets freaked out and leaves. Maybe she makes an anonymous call to the police to bust Martin.

Finale tonight!

Renewed for a second season.

I said that the series would get a second. The first was a surprise critical and commercial hit for them.

I also said they would consider making season 2 with a new cast. It’s the type of show that needs to be an anthology show.

Does anyone know who sings the cover of Disarm they played in tonight’s episode?

I didn’t think to SoundHound it.

Just watched the finale. No spoilers, but wow!

Ok. I was actually shocked by that final scene.

Yes! The last two scenes.

Wow. Twitter is going nuts over that scene 😂😂😂

Can I just say that I am surprised by how good this show was at tying everything in together and leaving no loose ends.

Like the gunshot we hear in episode 1 was the moment… you know. Or we see Mallory was the one sitting in the car as Kate danced. Etc.

The show was a lot better than I expected

I believe it was Olivia Holt, R403

Crazy ending but not totally surprising about Jeanette. I kept asking myself if Jeanette is so innocent and normal why does she keep breaking into that house? She was a psychopath.

Thanks R409 I thought it might be after her cover of Today last episode, but I can’t find any confirmation online.

It was Olivia Holt. She has a beautiful voice.

R410 she seems more sociopathic than psychopathic. But both.

That ending though !!!

This is so true

I truly hate Mallory and the actress who plays her.

R415 Her behavior also led to someone's death.

I don't understand how Kate became suddenly gay, or is she just bi?

Sexuality isn’t so black and white for everyone. r418

The female leads were really well cast. Olivia Holt in particular, was great.

Straight girls go lez all the time and then eventually switch back.

Anne Heche is the perfect example.

Olivia Holt was terrific all season. She never missed a beat, although tonight may have had her weakest showing in the scene with Martin. They both seemed completely disconnected in a bad way.

Kate is not an innocent. She’s a seductress and Mallory suits her needs for now.

R422 She wasn't that good in the scene with Martin, I think she's one of those actresses who play everyday scenes well but not big emotional scenes. She's a bit frozen-faced, her expression never really changes a lot. B the way how did Froy G. get better billing on this show than Blake Lee?

I think Olivia Holt was fantastic but I actually thought Chiara Aurelia stole the entire show. She was amazing and played each Jeanette so differently. I can’t believe she’s only 18.

Blake Lee was phenomenal all season, and last week was his moment to truly shine, and he did. He was terrific, and if this weren’t a Freeform show and a bit more mature on a network like HBO he would get awards buzz for last weeks episode.

However, he felt disconnected in his one big scene tonight.

Froy had a bigger role all season. Blake Lee is barely shown until the last few episodes. He pops in and out almost.

R423 if they stick with the same cast in season 2 I hope Kate is setting her up. She forgave her a little too easily.

I didn’t realize she is only 18, R425. She gave a very nuanced performance throughout the series.

Chiara was strongest in the 1993 scenes. She played it too well. 1994 also.

She has one expression throughout all of 1995, but that may have been on purpose.

R424 I would agree with you if she didn’t do so good in last weeks episode. When she’s telling Martin she’s leaving, she was phenomenal, tears running down her cheeks and all.

Tonight’s scene she looked frozen and like she was trying.

Spoiler here….

Kate did not have to shoot Martin. She could backed up the stairs, gun in hand, and locked him in the basement while she called the cops. She didn’t want him caught alive.

Jeanette’s actions led to whose death R417? Mr. Harris?

R431 false. He was standing right by the stairs. She was not getting by him. He could have easily overpowered her if he grabbed the gun or her.

Olivia Holt was a recast. The original Kate actress, who shot another version of the pilot, resembles Chiara Aurelia. I wish they would’ve recast Mallory. She stuck out like a sore thumb. Pure nepotism.

Nah. He was a broken man R433. He knew his life was over one way or another. Without the gun, he was non-threatening.

Kate knows her way around guns. Once she had possession of it, she was in charge.

R432 Yes.

R427 I thought Froy only popped in and out of many episodes, as well, most weeks.

R430 Well let's say she's restrained. Very restrained TV style acting.

Chiara is exec producer of the series, btw.

Mallory was perfect casting to me, and you all bitch about her but she wasn’t bad at all.

She was terrible R437! And looked way older than the rest of the cast.

He wasn’t broken enough. He tried stopping her from killing him r435.

And no? We watched him overpower her before. She’s a small girl. It’s very easy.

R438 shes 21.

Everyone popped in and out. The show is about the two girls. Everyone else is supporting.

But Froy played the boyfriend to both. And his role was not small until the last couple episodes.

Last week is the first time Mr. Harris is shown for more than 3/4 minutes in an episode.

[quote]Nah. He was a broken man [R433]. He knew his life was over one way or another. Without the gun, he was non-threatening. Kate knows her way around guns. Once she had possession of it, she was in charge.

If Harris had lived they would have had to write a whole different screenplay. It was death by screenwriter. Besides, in that situation you don't think that way, what if something went wrong and she didn't get away? And remember only seconds before she thought he was going to kill her, not himself. Anyone would be scared to death, not thnking, cetainly not able to strategize.

Martin told Kate that the cops had just stopped by the house. He knew they’d be back before long with a search warrant. One way or another, it was over for him and he knew it.

They was nothing to gain by stopping Kate from leaving at this point. He was toast.

She needed him dead.

She needed him dead for sure. And that’s the only way she was getting out alive. He couldn’t go through with killing himself and you know damn well he wasn’t letting her out, despite everything.

It was kill him or wait for him to kill you.

R440 And looks 31.

I didn't get the part where Kate told Jeanette the police thought Harris died in a shootout.

I see how the snow globe connects the three women, but I still don’t understand why it’s important to any of them Why did Mallory pack it in her suitcase?

Did they explain why the cops stopped by his house?

Ummmm maybe because there is a missing 16 year old girl and he knows her…

I disagree R444, but you are entitled to your interpretation and I am entitled to mine.

Nothing was or is as it appears in this show.

I just don’t know how you can interpret it your way after watching the scene and everything throughout the season… any grown man who thinks she can overpower and escape a grown man is deluded.

[quote]Ummmm maybe because there is a missing 16 year old girl and he knows her…

And who knows that he knows her?

R446, the cops told the media he died in a shootout. It wouldn’t look good for macho Texas cops if it came out that a lightweight teen killed Martin.

Is r452 joking????

Dying in a shootout is one of the oldest lies cops give about someone’s death by gun. That actually has happened in real life too

Again R451, you’re entitled to your opinion as am I to my opinion.

Nothing in the season is what it appeared to be.

Him bring her principal or whatever he was isn’t enough to make the cops stop by.

He was also friend to the parents… he even went camping with them, was at their party etc.

The mother went to see him when Kate didn’t come home. She went to him for advice because he became a friend to them.

Did you watch the show?

R453 Is that (your 2nd sentence) what was said on the show, or are you just saying that? I doubt the police would take responsibility for killing a suspect that they found already dead.

R458 Then why did they wait all that time before questioning him? Are they just really bad at their job?

I’m with r458 on this. If you watched the show, everyone knew they knew each other. There is a 16 year old girl missing for over 100 days. They are now visiting nearby homes.

R460 ok you’re just trolling now. Get off the thread.

Did you watch the show R459?

There was more than one scene in the series when someone was watching the news and it was stated that he died in a shootout. Hence, the shocking revelation that Kate killed Martin.

It was because the donut shop had been closed for renovations and they weren’t heading out until they got their dozens, R460. 🙄

R462 Excuse me? Why don't you go join Jeanette in the psycho corner?

I wasn't the one who asked about why the police stopped by, so obviously I wasn't the only one who wondered why it happend. And if he was so close to the family it's a little strange they never even suspected him, and the police never suspected him.

R463 Yes, genius, I'm asking why the media or the cops claimed he died in a shootout when he DIDN'T and I still haven't really heard a good explanation. Police boards do investigate shootouts. There were no other signs of a shootout, no damage. The bullet that killed Martin was from his own gun, was there no autopsy?

Oh good grief. Go to sleep R465. Tomorrow we’ll explain to you how ice cubes are made.

Also, no one in the neighborhood saw a lot of police cars arrive, or heard a shootout, because there wasn't any. I guess they just saw the news report and didn'ty question it. Jamie and Jeanette also heard one lone gunshot.

It’s too bad Abraham Zapruder wasn’t on the premises when Martin was shot.

Several people have brought up some simple, reasonable questions, and if the answers are so easy, then they should be easy to answer. Yet no one is answering them, so I assume y'all can't answer them.

Why don’t you write to Jessica Biel then, R 469?

That was awesome. They completely stuck the landing.

While I don't expect them to be successful, I hope Freeform gives Olivia Holt and Blake Lee a For Your Consideration campaign.

R470 Why don't you write her and tell her your theory of why Kate didn't need to shoot Martin? I'm sure she would find it as fascinating as we did.

R472 that person saying that says all I need to know about their mindset. Not sane.

Cops lie ALL. THE. TIME.

R473 What was their reason for lying, in this case? To protect Kate? I admit I didn't sit down and memorize every line of the show, like some people here, and probably even missed parts of some episodes (!) but it's just a TV show. Anyhow, just curious.

Chiara was not an Exec Producer.

R474 based on most of your comments throughout the entire show, I don’t think you watched at all.

R476 I did, but your opinion of what I do is of zero interest to me at this point. It's a fucking TV show, get off your high horse, Mary.

It’s a tv show that we are discussing because we watched it. If you didn’t you have no business on here.

And looking at the old thread you were called out on there too.

R478 Fine, I'll leave, that should make you happy, fucking bully. I haven't been bullied this much since I was a gay kid on the playground. Go f yourself.

I am watching again right now, and the scene where Kate kills Martin is actually very good on rewatch and a lot more emotional.

Don't leave yet R479. I am dying to know your thoughts on the last episode of The Sopranos and particularly on why the screen went dark at the end.

How do we know Tony died?

How do we know the lights didn't just go out in the diner because they hadn't paid their electric bill?

What does Meadow being a poor parallel parker have to do with anything?

OK that was a good ending.

Poor planning on Olivia’s team’s part. They should have had the two covers from last night hit all the streaming services today.

C U Next Tuesday, R472

Sorry—The police don’t just assume a guy shot to death in a basement died in a police shoot-out. Especially when there was no police shoot out. What happened to the gun? Who names a gun?

Kate was guilty of murder (though perhaps she could get away with some kind of justification), as well as staging her own kidnapping. She got away with both crimes. I understand she was mad at Jeanette for stealing her boyfriend and life, and was feeling all sorts of guilt, but why on earth would she publicly accuse Jeanette of having seen her upstairs on the phone when that could only unravel her web of lies?

This wasn’t a “sweep it under the rug” death. The case had extensive national media attention. The FBI investigates kidnappings. The fake shoot-out explanation would never work. They could have just said in the news report that he was found dead at the scene—an apparent suicide, though the cops would have known the truth. Stupid move.

That ending -- wow! I did not see that one coming. Jeanette was savage.

The story of the South Carolina frat boy murder needs to be the next season.

I want season 2 to be a new story. I hope they don’t cave and try to continue this story somehow. It’s closed.

I want it to be about a gay being murdered amongst a group of friends.

Did Mallory know it was Kate she saw in Mr. Harris' window?

No. We see what Mallory saw. She saw the back of her head, never her face, and then when Kate saw her it was so dark Mallory couldn’t see who was there, she could only see the reflection from the light outside on the window.

I watched this series. It was a B quality series by a D list Network. Sheesh, ladies. Brilliant this and Stick the landing that. You're spewing boilerplate hyperbole worse than Rex Reed.

R492 has stated her boundaries.

It was great. And the quality is no lower than most other shows.

R492 is basically correct, though I did like the ending.

The whole premise is deeply flawed. No one would take Kate’s accusation against Jeanette seriously without details: How and when did Jeanette see Kate? These details could never be provided because they would reveal Kate to be complicit in her kidnapping and in murder.

I liked the show against my own expectations, but R495 makes a good point about the basic premises of Jeanette becoming some national persona non grata due to something she may/may not have seen through a blurry window. You kind of hand to suspend disbelief with that one.

Omg please. We’ve seen many people be vilified with no proof to back it up at all. This has happened in real life.

Replying to yourself won’t change that r495 r496

Hi bud 👋🏻

You’re not too bright, are you, r497?

Bright enough to see you posted a comment and then rushed to reply to yourself from another.

But I didn’t. Fool.

I just watched it two more times at my sisters place. She didn’t watch it yet so we (my two sisters and me) watched during dinner. One likes to talk too much as we watch stuff. The other cried during the Martin/Kate scene.

And then later when her fiancé came home from work he wanted to watch it so we did again lmao. And everyone was shocked by the ending. They all praised the finale and felt it was done well. Sometimes finales suck. This one did a good job at answering everything and closing the story. They liked the moments where things are tied together, like when Jamie and Jeanette hear the gunshot during the premiere, and we see if was when Kate killed Martin during the finale etc.

For some reason I'm so obsessed with this show!!, and am sad it's over. The finale really delivered. It was soo satisfying. And I did not see that coming.

I also want season 2 to be a completely new story but I hope they keep most of the same cast. I forgot Jessica Biel produced the show. Well done. Especially the music.

R496, agree that was a weak plot point but they still made it work.

It could be fun if they introduced a new group, but kept sporadic reference to this bunch.

Hearsay of what happened to them next would keep us guessing, and if the main story stumbled, we’d pull through with that.

I want this to be like The Sinner, which Jessica starred in season 1, where each season is an entirely new cast and story.

No need to continue this story now that it’s closed.

I want season 2 to be set in the 70s and a group of friends is being investigated for the murder of one of their friends after finding out he is gay. It causes rifts and tides within the group etc.

But do they keep the split timeline? Seems that it’s the signature element, but could be tough to keep up.

If there’s a cast shake-up, what will Mrs. Madden do?