Theatre Gossip #417 - The Karen Olivo "I want a thread title that matches my integrity" Edition

Prepare to be flayed alive by the oldsters on #416, OP: it's got--gasp!--30 posts left.

Whatevs.

The story of Karen O leaving MURDER BALLAD because of an affair (or lack thereof) with costar Will Swenson is a good one. OTOH, there's the possibility she merely realized the show was a dog. (To be fair, I only know the OCR. But yeah, it sounds like a dog.)

Karen mentioned her students. Does she teach dance?

R1 There might be some truth to her affair with Will. Audra McDonald (Wills wife) blasted her on Twitter yesterday. She didn’t say her name, but it was clearly directed at Karen.

He tries but there's no grandeur there.

On Olivo: The Swenson affair happened. She slept with a friend of mine in Chicago during her current marriage while in Hamilton there, and became obsessed and stalker-y. I've seen the photos. My friend told me she was fired from the teaching job UW and prior to Hamilton was broke in part because the current husband had a gambling problem. She is a cokehead and a nutcase with ZERO integrity and no commitment to her contractual 8 shows a week. She was not returning to Moulin Rouge either way, but as usual made it all about her. As execerable as Moulin Rouge is, I hope the producers use the opportunity to discover a new unknown talent that will be grateful to be there.

Or just give the role to Sierra Boggess. At least one of the leads should have personality.

I've never got the Aaron Tveit fawning. This is a handsome face?

Great dish R5. I'm actually astounded by the amount of support Olivo's been receiving on the theatre boards/social media. Are people really this simple minded? Her integrity has LONG been in question and this latest stunt feels like an easy 'out' for her. But the wokesters are eating it up. They're also condemning anyone who dares question her motivation (because apparently if you're at all intersectional, you're beyond criticism now) It's virtue signaling 101 with all the right buzz words. A word salad that doesn't add up to very much at all.

I DO find it curious the production had a formal (supportive) statement ready to go so quickly after the announcement...

Wait, are we using Olivo's bedroom antics to question her integrity?

R8 Most people are unconscious idiots and the few smart ones are faking it

This is a fucking delicious takedown of St. Olivo the whore.

Swenson has lots of affairs - apparently he had one with a member of the "Porgy and Bess" that Saint Audra was in. Of course, Ms. Audra got her fired for it.

I don't know who this Nate guy is, but I think I like him.

R11 - that's kind of fantastic. Though he's already being dumped on by the SJWs. Wokesplaining how ignorant he is with his (Gay) Whitesplaining. One comment: "The Caucasity of this video..." Nice one! Apparently he's not intersectional enough to offer an opinion without being deemed racist!

The left (of which I belong) is being destroyed by these kind of identity politics. It's "us vs. them" now. The theatre traditionally was (and arguably STILL IS) one of the MOST collaborative, open and inclusive spaces to work within. Not without its blindspots or abuses of power - but come on. This whole "everyone's a victim" and "I'll blame everyone else for my career failures" narrative is ridiculous. There has NEVER been a more equitable time to be in this industry. But I guess this is what you get when "everyone gets a medal" for a generation.

This is the second dumbest thing she’s done, the first being turning down Prince 💜

If Karen Olivo were a mistress of publicity in the realm of Steve Jobs and Madonna, she would be world famous. She isn't. Some of you deeming that take down delicious are just hearing what you want to hear and claiming it's a brilliant take because of that.

She's a play killer. First she killed Natasha, Pierre and the Great Comet of 1812, throwing a hundred people out of work.

Now she's trying to kill The Music Man.

She's an evil cunt and a professional troublemaker, and anyone who hires her FOR ANYTHING is a fucking idiot.

R17 I think you are confusing Karen Olivo and Cynthia Erivo.

Anthony Rapp reps for Team Karen.

[Quote] I think you are confusing Karen Olivo and Cynthia Erivo.

You couldn't make it up. I guess Matt has added Olivo and Erivo to the list, alongside Angela Lansbury.

Ugh, R18, you're right. It just seemed to me like the same cancel-culture destructiveness and that confused me.

I should have googled first. I'm really more at home with the oldtime names, like Pat Stanley and Olga San Juan.

"Nate" at R11 really should have prepared his comments in advance. That freaking IG post is 10 minutes long. Ain't nobody got time for all that.

It all reads as petty resentment with very little insight. (What IS the cure for the Scott Rudins of Bway, oh Nate?) He presumes, at one point, to speak for Sutton Foster and Hugh Jackman... which seems like a stretch, for a music director no one has ever heard of.

PS: questioning Karen's chosen pronouns or anticipating accusations of "whitesplaining"... honey, you are just begging for a world of trouble on social media.

Does he post here? I'll bet he does.

R19 - With 1.5k idiots only too quick to jump on board. Twitter is such a cesspool of non-critical thinking. But then these moronic SJWs would have you believe 'logic' and 'critical thinking' are mechanisms of an oppressive white patriarchy, so don't think about bringing those to their party! Feelings only, please. SMH.

Holy mackeral... looks like "Nate" works on AIN'T TOO PROUD TO BEG. You know, that show about POC.

[quote]Questioning their pronouns, discrediting one of the only people who is actually acting on their words, and taking pride in whitesplaining...?! Nate, this is actual TRASH.

They are handing his ass to him in the comments.

I just realized who she reminds me of - Nia Peeples

They're the Religious Left. The Church of Woke: Nuance be damned / It's their scripture or bust / There is no redemption / Sit and listen but also...don't be silent! The way they can pounce on one rambling video op-ed piece (from a minor theatre professional) is alarming. And it's not just a disagreement of opinion you see in the comments. It's a patronizing, prejudiced, moral inquisition that only wants to silence, punish or convert the offending voice. Remind you of anything? Oh right. Every other organized religion.

Why does Audra keep Will? She's ended a previous marriage, she could do it again.

Karen does actually look like Prince's wife (the first one?).

I wanted a thread title that matches my shoes and handbag, OP.

Won’t somebody PLEASE shit in my mouth? Preferably after downing an entire bucket of KFC and all the biscuits and all the fixins?

Karen is the type of person you either love or hate. She’s an attention whore. If she was really doing this because of her morels, then she’d quietly leave and address it later... instead she takes this as “her moment” like she’s Norma fucking Ray! Cast Sierra in the role and be done with it

If I wanted to be preached to, then I’d go to church.

I don't think she's that into mushrooms, r31.

Karen does go away, though, doesn't she? I don't recall her being talked about as a Twitter Fingers, a la Javier Munoz, Cynthia Erivo etc.

Sara Gettelfinger and Tyler Maynard for the leads in the returning "Moulin Rouge"!

15-20 years ago, Carolee Carmello would've made a great Satine. Gary Beach, a great Zidler too!

Wait, Rudin didn't produce Moulin Rouge?

So what am I missing? That she's insane?

[Quote] So what am I missing?

Someone suggested that the producers were parting with her and that she decided to "control the narrative."

If that was the case, it's bombing. The most common narrative that's coming across is she's cuckoo. And tourists from Nebraska aren't going to give a shit.

Patti LuPone for Santine!

Has the NY Times actually picked up the Olivo story?

R41 Well, they haven't picked up the Rudin one, so safe to say, the non-dancer is being ignored.

Yes, the Times story ran yesterday.

Barbra Streisand 1962 Backstage at I Can Get It For You Wholesale

My god, she was a whining pain in the butt even back then, r44.

Bernadette Peters IS Satine!

WE DON'T SEE YOU (ANYMORE), KAREN OLIVO!

Thanks r4. Fun attempt by Swenson, but the timing was off in almost every way possible.

Here's Terrance Mann. Having a blast, pulling out all of the stops, and working the crowd. Jarrod Emmick, as Brad, Daphne as Magenta. Three of the phantoms are Jonathan Sharp, Diedre Goodwin, and Matthew Morrison.

WHET Tom Hewitt? He was excellent in this.

Sweet Transvestite starts at 3:12

Bill

The former Mr Linda Thorson.

[quote]PS: questioning Karen's chosen pronouns or anticipating accusations of "whitesplaining"... honey, you are just begging for a world of trouble on social media.

He didn't "question her chosen pronouns." He was asking honestly, since she listed her pronouns as she/they, if that meant he was free to use either.

Is English not your first language? Is that why you didn't understand what he so clearly meant when discussing this?

If anyone does Rocky Horror now, will FnF have to be an actual trans person who specifically went through bottom surgery?

It was foolish of him to even bring up the pronoun business.

For fuck's sake, he brought up the pronouns because apparently Olivo has listed listed her pronouns as she/they, and this guy wasn't sure if that meant he could use either/or, and he wanted to cover himself as far as that goes by admitting that he wasn't sure and apologizing if he got it wrong.

I've seen both men and women play FnF - works either way

[quote]I've seen both men and women play FnF - works either way

It didn't work either way when Laverne Cox played FnF on television.

[Quote] For fuck's sake, he brought up the pronouns because apparently Olivo has listed listed her pronouns as she/they, and this guy wasn't sure if that meant he could use either/or, and he wanted to cover himself as far as that goes by admitting that he wasn't sure and apologizing if he got it wrong.

And in doing so, he gave some people ammo. If you're going to engage in kitchen table talk in public, be prepared for different rules.

[quote]And in doing so, he gave some people ammo.

If admitting he didn't fully understand what pronouns Olivo preferred in reference to herself/themself (and apologizing if he got it wrong because he didn't understand) is "ammo," then the people who would use that ammo against this guy are even more insanely irrational than I would have thought possible.

More Karen love on Twitter tonight!

Are you new to social media, r58?

It was silly of him to comment in the first place. There has been industry silence to the Rudin piece. Karen is not starting a revolution from her bed. She's getting a few headlines and then she'll be back to selling lucky heather or soldering tsotchkes or whatever the fuck she does to keep the lights on in the regions.

[quote]If anyone does Rocky Horror now, will FnF have to be an actual trans person who specifically went through bottom surgery?

I guess you might be joking, r52, but Frank n Furter is a transvestite, not a transsexual. He fucks Janet and gets fucked by Brad. Tough to do with bottom surgery

[quote]It was silly of him to comment in the first place.

Why, r61? He wasn't wrong, or even disrespectful. So a bunch of loons will be screaming into the ether about it. Who tf cares? Freedom of speech is still a thing. It won't be a career ender for him (if he has one). It's KO's third strike, and she will go down for good this time. I can't imagine she will be on Broadway ever again.

Tom Hewitt's Sweet Transvestite. Not the best capture, but you get the idea.

Super sweet guy, too.

[Quote] or even disrespectful.

C'mon now. Commenting that she'd retired a number of times before - fine for a bitchy aside on DL - but it's not smart for this MD of a Broadway show to go live on Instagram with an extended (TEN MINUTES!) "Girl, please!" If he absolutely had to comment in a public forum, he would have been smarter to go Audra's route: Don't name Olivo, and frame the take down concisely in relation to a noble social cause. If you're going to play the PR game, play it right.

My God, r59 link. "it shouldn't have fallen on her shoulders..." Who the fuck asked her to do this? This was all on her. Everyone is acting like this huge responsibility was put on a WOC. No. What she did? Fine. What she's urging? That people quit their jobs in solidarity over bad behavior by a producer who abuses his office staff but on whom there is no accusation of abusing members of AEA? No. Sorry. She chose this bizarre route. Quit trying to make her a martyr that had this "placed on her shoulders".

[quote]or even disrespectful.

[quote]C'mon now. Commenting that she'd retired a number of times before.

He said (yes, rather emphatically) that KO had retired twice before. Twice. Not "a number of times". Accuracy counts.

He isn't wrong, and it wasn't disrespectful to say so. It's the truth. We can't speak the truth anymore, r63? Disrespectful and "not smart" are two different things. It might be unwise of him to have done this (time will tell), but even his "box of crazy" wasn't really disrespectful because, well, KO sounds quite crazy. Again...speaking the truth.

As to the length of Nate's IG, sure, a little long, but he was speaking extemporaneously, and was exasperated and baffled. Still, I watched it twice, just to see where you got this, which you put in quotes.

[quote]"Girl, please!"

Patten didn't say it. I didn't say it. If you were saying it to me, why the quotation marks?

I enjoyed Olivo in Moulin Rouge. That said, it isn't a particularly difficult role and is an often done character-type.

That said, Moulin Rouge as a whole is shit and shouldn't re-open.

Her Satine made me glad I don’t have a vagine. And this latest stunt proves that she is a fame-whore provocateuse. Bye, gurl.

[Quote] He said (yes, rather emphatically) that KO had retired twice before. Twice. Not "a number of times". Accuracy counts.

Twice is a number of times. I was careful not to use the word several, dear.

[Quote] Patten didn't say it. I didn't say it. If you were saying it to me, why the quotation marks?—'cause that's just weird

"Girl, please" was a summation of his IG video.

Did they ask her to dance?

[Quote] Disrespectful and "not smart" are two different things.

"Karen Olivo has retired before, she doesn't mean this" is doubly stupid for him to argue on social media, because of who he is (or rather, what he does for a living) and because it's a poor line of argument. Someone can leave multiple times - a domenstic abuse victim, for instance - before they finally close a chapter in their life. And I don't cite domestic abuse lightly. Workplace abuse is a very emotive topic. As I said before, Audra Ann knows how to play the PR game. She tapped into a hot button social cause and used it to her advantage to call out the likes of Olivo.

Let's be the 80s Broadway Cast of 'Moulin Rouge!'

Christian - David J Carroll / Howard McGillin Satine - Linda Ronstadt / Debbie Shapiro Gravitte Zidler - George Rose / Jim Dale The Duke - Terrance Mann / Patrick Cassidy Toulouse - Michael Jeter / Stephen Mo Hanan (there's a deep cut!)

Jeremy O.Harris for new Santine.

Anthony Rapp is a bigger famewhore than Olivo, R19. He's always inserting himself into shit that has nothing to do with him.

Not sure if Valens is still lurking, but would be eternally grateful if we could get a re-up of Rick McKay's Broadway The Golden Age. It's hard to track down these days. (And lord knows we'll probably never see parts 2 and 3 at this point)

Actually, I could see Rihanna in the inevitable movie remake.

I have loved Karen Olivo in every one of the 5 musicals I've seen where she was a featured performer. Rent, Brooklyn, In The Heights, West Side Story, Moulin Rouge, Loved! Loved! Loved her! A Broadway Treasure!

Oh wait...

Actually, I've never SEEN Olivo in any of her shows, because every time I pay the big bucks to see one of her performances, SHE CALLS IN SICK. Every one! EVERY ONE. So I must be thinking of her brave understudies who have gone on so many times for her that they absolutely shine in the role.

In the words of Dream Girl Michelle: "...Now you watch your mouth, Miss Karen Olivo, Cause I don?t take that tone from some second-rate diva who can't sustain"

IMHO

Be happy you didn't see Brooklyn. It had some of the greatest singers in the biggest bunch of slop I've seen.

It was 90 minutes and I kept looking at my watching, hoping to god we were close to the end.

[quote]Twice is a number of times. I was careful not to use the word several, dear.

Surely you understand that saying "numbers of times" implies more than two. You could have simply said "twice", as Patten did. Fewer words, more accurate.

[quote]"Girl, please" was a summation of his IG video.

That still doesn't explain the use of quotation marks.

[quote]"Karen Olivo has retired before, she doesn't mean this" is doubly stupid for him to argue on social media...

I don't think you understand how quotation marks work. Patten never said that. You are misrepresenting Patten's video with your own interpretation on what you think he meant, and that's not fair. Anyone retires once, no one thinks twice (or even "a number of times") about it. We don't need to know why. A second retirement? It's reasonable to look askance. THREE times? Get the fuck outta here. It's like flouncing from a message board. Just go.

We are going to have to agree to disagree, r71, and I'll respectfully decline further discussion with you. Have a good one.

Full disclosure: I had never heard of Patten until he was mentioned in this thread, but what he said made perfect sense to me. Here's why: I worked on Brooklyn. I have been in a position to observe KO's behavior for some time. It would appear that it hasn't improved.

A palate cleanser. Terrence Mann as Rum Tum Tugger that I found while looking for his Sweet Transvestite. Not a bad capture for 1984.

I'm not defending Karen Olivo. I think your "friend" makes a poor argument. Have a good number of days this weekend.

[Quote] That still doesn't explain the use of quotation marks.

"Girl, please" is a common phrase, hence the quotation marks. And the full quote makes it clear that it is a shorthand for the thrust of his video:

[Quote] to go live on Instagram with an extended (TEN MINUTES!) "Girl, please!"

Or did you think the word extended referred to a drawled exclamation?

Anyway, one thing you're right about: we shouldn't continue this discussion. You are more concerned with style than content.

This has always been one of my favorite songs.

So is Olivo leaving the harmful toxicity of Broadway to return to teaching full time at an university? To those egalitarian, utopic and collegiate places of learning? Where those in power never abuse their positions or fuck people over? Is higher education an industry that sufficiently matches her integrity?

Good luck with that, Karen.

Did Barbara Harris teach at a university?

She didn't retire earlier. She gave up when nobody would hire her because of her unprofessional behavior. I was astonished when she was cast in MR. I guess I was right.

The point is, r85, is that KO claimed she retired. She left shows. Three times now. She did get hired back. Why, I don't know. She is talented, but she is not *that* good. Her work ethic isn't great, nor is her attendance record. She doesn't play well with others.

Eden Espinosa, Kevin Anderson, Cleavant Derricks and Ramona Keller were pretty nice co-workers.

Can Eden Espinosa act?

Well, he can show up, which is more than Karen can usually do.

^ SHE! Sorry.

Pronouns, pronouns.

I still don't understand what "social justice is more important than my pocketbook" [italic]means[/italic]. Where is the social justice in quitting unless you say what you're going to [italic]do[/italic]. Or is she trying to say that quitting [italic]is[/italic], somehow, an act of social justice??

r48 can you spot Matthew and give the time-code of a moment where we can see him? I can't find him. Loved that show, especially with Hewitt (@r62). Director did a great job and cast was killer, yes even Joan Jett as they used her. Emick was an unsung comic hero too.

Karen has ethics only Arthur Laurents could love.

Anthony Rapp, like Lisa Simpson, is the answer to a question nobody asked.

Where's my Tony?

If our ACL friend is still here I’d love to ask if it’s true that the attendance records of some of the ACL revival casts were so bad that they were spoken to several times and some contracts were not renewed.

I can well believe it.

So this Nate person is now on Instagram talking about how amazing Karen Olivo is? Because she reached out to him? What a fucking wimp.

Short lived hero, huh.

[quote]Where's my Tony?

In the next "West Side Story" dinner theater production?

"Nate" has DELETED his IG post defaming Karen.

And now he's a fan!

Unsurprisingly, given "some of the comments" Nate has received, he's taking a break from social media!

But then weirdly signs off with "see you tomorrow."

Not if there's a God, Nate.

I want to live!

[Quote] Not if there's a God, Nate.

Dark.

What’s with that Nate guy now on Insta praising Olivo to the skies?

[Quote] But then weirdly signs off with "see you tomorrow."

Gosh, Nate couldn't possibly be something of an attention seeker himself, could he?

[quote] Gosh, Nate couldn't possibly be something of an attention seeker himself, could he?

Would I be remiss to believe that just about anyone involved with the legitimate theatre may be an attention seeker?

I genuinely hope Nate posts on DL, and on these threads.

I'd be surprised if he doesn't, R108.

All I'm gonna say here is that your Mrs. Linda Loman was wrong.

Nata was probably that queen who did an aboutface over Dylan Geick once Geick turned up on his thread.

There’s a difference between an “attention seeker” and an “attention magnet”.

The latter has staying power. The former may flash bright, but they’ll stay on the fringes for most of their careers.

So she soft soaped him. What a sucker. And what a suck up.

Dear Karen—

You don’t know me, you haven’t worked for me—and I would never hire you. STFU!

Didn't he say to her how the fuck did you get my number?

Unbelievable that he caved so quickly. These fucking wokesters bully anyone with an opinion into submission. Stand your ground, man!

Meanwhile...

Let's keep Rudin on the other thread. It's too much of his fat face.

Amazing to think 'The Producers' opened 20 years ago next week. As phenomenal as Nathan and Matthew were, Gary Beach bringing down the house with "Springtime for Hitler" remains one of the greatest musical comedy turns I've seen on a stage. (I know...MARY!)

Helen McCrory has passed. Such a wonderful actress. 52 is too young.

And with two children of 14 and 15... too cruel.

Poor Scott Rudin. The lead in a competing show dropped out! How will he survive?

McCrory’s story about meeting that cunt Betty Bacall backstage alone makes listening to this worthwhile.

Moulin Rouge was absolute torture.

Wow. I'm not familiar w/McCrory, but damn, that is terrible and heartbreaking.

R75 B - TGA.

[quote][R48] can you spot Matthew and give the time-code of a moment where we can see him? I can't find him. Loved that show, especially with Hewitt (@[R62]). Director did a great job and cast was killer, yes even Joan Jett as they used her. Emick was an unsung comic hero too.

r92, there was another actor who had the same hair, make-up, and track, but given Diedre's look in this video (she's opposite him, with purple hair), I'm pretty sure it's Matthew. The hair and make up makes him look very different, but check out the nose in profile. I could be wrong.

He appears from 4:10-4:20, and again around 4:27 (wish I could remember how to make time stamps clickable). You are so right about Emick. Watch him at the link below, around 1:18. Funny AND sexy.

If our ACL friend is still here I’d love to ask if it’s true that the attendance records of some of the ACL revival casts were so bad that they were spoken to several times and some contracts were not renewed.

Yes to the former, r96. not sure about the latter. There may have been 1 or 2 that weren't renewed. No more than that. The thing to remember is that for many of the young performers, it was their 1st Broadway show. Lots of partying, and missing the next day. There was also a showmance (I won't say who nor confirm or deny guesses, but it was another open secret), and they often called in sick together. Most of them took the Come to Jesus meetings seriously, and straightened up. The showmance ended with the show, as showmances do.

Thanks for that clip, r119. Beach (rip) was a treasure. He was incredible in Legends! Jim Borstelmann was invaluable in that show. Understudied Roger, Franz and the choreographer, and was stellar in each of those roles.

Mea culpa! I neglected to format r96 as a quote. I can live without an edit, nut Mother Muriel, may we have a preview?

[quote]If our ACL friend is still here I’d love to ask if it’s true that the attendance records of some of the ACL revival casts were so bad that they were spoken to several times and some contracts were not renewed.

[quote]nut Mother Muriel

I do NOT want to nut Muriel. I'm taking a social media break now

Helen McCrory is survived by her husband, Damien Lewis. He's probably better known to most Americans.

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1990, "The Piano Lesson" opened at the Walter Kerr Theatre.

In The Heights is out, is very colourful.

The Deep Blue Sea with Helen.

Thank you, R133! I was going to ask if our resident NT sharer could link to it.

I’m rarely saddened by the passing of celebrities, but fuck - what a terribly cruel loss. McCrory was one of those performers that made acting looks as it was as natural and effortless as breathing. The final few moments of her performance in The Deep Blue Sea is one of my most treasured theatrical memories.

RIP, Helen.

R126- Thank you so much! What a gem of a documentary this was.

R127 - You're so right about Jimmy Borstelmann being such an invaluable player in that company. I saw him as Roger, Carmen and Franz at different points and he was wildly successful in each part. A very funny man, great dancer and a sweetheart of a guy. John Treacy Egan was also a force (before he eventually took over Max). His Franz and Roger were stellar.

[quote]A very funny man, great dancer and a sweetheart of a guy. John Treacy Egan was also a force...

Yes on all counts, r135/ R (Elizabeth) DeBris. Egan is a doll, too.

I first encountered Borstalmann in Chicago. This is an Encores clip. Borstalmann, David Warren Gibson, Bruce Anthony Davis, Michael Berresse, Rocker V, John Mineo, and...I'm blanking of the tall guy. Michael?

Michael Kubala!

Lots of positive word-of-mouth on social media for IN THE HEIGHTS movie.

I saw "The Producers" in October, 2001. My first trip to NYC after 9/11. That show was magical. The cast was stellar - each and every one of the cast members. I will be listening to the score on Monday in celebration!

Reinking’s Roxie at Encores was tough, sexy and hilarious. No idea why she turned into a cartoon for broadway but it just wasn’t as good.

Seth R's "Stars in the House" is actually doing a 20th anniversary reunion of The Producers tomorrow at 8pm/5pm PST. Nathan, Matthew, Brad, Roger, Cady and Stro! Should be dishy!

[quote]She didn't retire earlier. She gave up when nobody would hire her because of her unprofessional behavior. I was astonished when she was cast in MR. I guess I was right.

If I remember correctly, Olivo's comeback vehicle after one of her retirements was the Encores! version of TICK, TICK.....BOOM! Presumably, she was in that because Lin-Manuel wanted her. (He played the lead.) Is he THAT loyal to people he has worked with before, even if they're nothing but trouble? She wasn't even that good in the show, they had to take down the key of the big song for her.

Are the Stars in the House episodes ever dishy?

"Where's the next PRODUCERS?" wouldn't be the worst throughline for a book on Broadway from 2001 to 2011 (MORMON).

Karen Olivo doesn't seem to be in the film of In the Heights so perhaps loyalty only goes so far. I wonder if that's one of the slights she's been railing against?

From Variety's gossip column: "Broadway Records will release the concept album of "Little Black Book," Will Nunziata and Billy Recce's rock musical about Heidi Fleiss on April 20. The cast includes Alice Ripley, Orfeh, Mandy Gonzalez and Lilias White."

Will Nunziata is still around?

I *never* miss an Alice Ripley/Orfeh/Mandy Gonzalez/Lilias White musical!

Will they be playing conjoined quadruplets?

I'm Daisy, I'm Violet, I'm Lily...

"Orfeh" brings to mind the sound of a dry heave.

It's the sound Andy Karl makes every time he has to fuck her.

I would happily rim Andy whilst he fucks the Orfeh.

Andy and Orfeh are the poor man's Jackmans.

Karen's gotta Karen.

And Orfehs gotta Orfeh?

Thoughts?

Speaking of suck ups...

What warriors Karen and the other karens in the Broadway sphere, as it is (was?), posit to be. I often wonder why I was not lured back to Broadway in the intervening years, despite my brilliant Mother Courage (directed by George C. Wolfe, preventively verifying)... but, yes, Karen has shown me why. I wish her all the very best and everything that goes with it.

So the Lincoln Center performing arts library '75 videotaping of the original cast in ACL is on youtube. I guess it's been mentioned before but I missed it.

The quality is so bad it looks like a poor black and white kinescope of a live TV drama from the late 40s.

Ha, r157! Imagine the lack of work it would require to cancel Rob Roth.

[quote]So the Lincoln Center performing arts library '75 videotaping of the original cast in ACL is on youtube. I guess it's been mentioned before but I missed it. The quality is so bad it looks like a poor black and white kinescope of a live TV drama from the late 40s.

The poor quality of that video is understandable, I guess, but I could never figure out why it's in black and white. I mean, 1975 was not 1954.

Re that item at R157: Obviously, that email from Roth to Rudin is bizarre on the face of it (though many would agree that Olivo is indeed a horrible woman), but also, y'all should know that creature who tweeted about it is a rabid, insane SJW run amok.

Rudin says he's stepping back.

I hope he does so from the top of the Palisades.

So, how long do we think this little probationary period will last?

Karen Olivo is the new lead producer of The Music Man

changing the lyric to She/They Got Trouble and My BIPOC Knight

Has Rosie O'Donnell commented on Scott Rudin yet?

I had absolutely no idea about any of this. I’m stunned.

Scott Rudin sings 'I'm going back where I can be me'. Karen Olivio joins in on the second chorus.

R162, I've read that the TOFT copy of the ACL is in color and much higher quality; what circulates online is probably a 5th or so generation copy of the original tape, so the color was probably lost along the way. The same goes for the video bootleg of the original London production of Follies that circulates.

If you want to see the quality they have in the library, watch the documentary Every Little Step. They use it there.

The first tapings that were done for Lincoln Center Library were all primitive one-camera-at-the back-of-the-house affairs and they reveled in that. They weren't doing them as artistic pieces but rather as noble and rudimentary records for theater nerds to study.

In The heights is 2hours, 20. Very little of that is taken up with story.

There is still outrage in the Broadway community about Rudin and his "stepping away" as he will clearly still be profiting from The Music Man and his other shows.

Rudin needs to do an Oprah tell-all interview with mega-apology if he's ever going to be forgiven.

[quote]I've read that the TOFT copy of the ACL is in color and much higher quality; what circulates online is probably a 5th or so generation copy of the original tape, so the color was probably lost along the way.

Thanks, I guess that makes sense. No reason why it would have been taped in black and white at that time. On the other hand, no matter how many generations down a copy may be and now matter how much that degrades the quality, it shouldn't remove color, so I'm not sure how that happened.

[quote]There is still outrage in the Broadway community about Rudin and his "stepping away" as he will clearly still be profiting from The Music Man and his other shows.

I guess what Rudin has said he will do so far is a good first step as far as theoretically preventing him from continuing to have to deal with assistants and other humans in an office environment. But yes, I'm sure some people won't be satisfied unless he completely removes himself from all of his current and future shows to the point where he makes no future profit from them. But that would be pretty epic, and I doubt he would ever agree to that.

Who are some of Rudin's usual co-producers or investors?

R177, archival tapes of performances were usually in B&W in the 70s. I do not know why.

I do recall color cameras were more expensive, but that should not have been a problem for the library. It might have been that color required more light. Even in the 90s, when you made a video of a performance you usually bumped the lighting up 20% to get a good quality image.

[quote] I've read that the TOFT copy of the ACL is in color and much higher quality; what circulates online is probably a 5th or so generation copy of the original tape, so the color was probably lost along the way. The same goes for the video bootleg of the original London production of Follies that circulates.

The TOFT 1975 Public Theater video of "A Chorus Line" is indeed in black and white. For "Every Little Step," footage from it was specially treated and enhanced.

Let’s keep the movement going, folks. Someone please tweet Ben Platt and ask him to stand in solidarity against Scott Rudin by refusing to ever perform again. And after him, Billy Porter, please.

[quote]Karen Olivo is the new lead producer of The Music Man

And appearing as the female second lead, "Marcella" Washburn.

Excuse me. Going forward, it will be identified as THE MUSIC PERSON.

I cringe at the thought of GUYS & DOLLS in the hands of a woke director.

They should just do GUYS & DOLLS with an all Black cast, maybe that would be woke enough.

[quote] They should just do GUYS & DOLLS with an all Black cast, maybe that would be woke enough.

Already been done!

Jesus, how the fuck could that Playbill article mention EVERY SINGLE PERSON connected to Guys and Dolls and leave out the director-choreographer, Billy Wilson??

Yeah r186 you're right, we should only do something like that once a century eh?

Um - just pointing out that such a production did occur, asshole.

[quote]Archival tapes of performances were usually in B&W in the 70s. I do not know why. I do recall color cameras were more expensive, but that should not have been a problem for the library.

Well, I think a partial answer to your second point is that I believe that tape was not made by TOFT. Although it ended up in their collection, I think it was made by the Public. (I could be wrong about that.) But really, whoever did the taping, it STILL surprises me that a video from the mid-1970s should be in black and white. Even an archival video, considering that I should think the color scheme of the sets, costumes, and lighting would be considered important archival information.

Nasty bitch at R188: The quote that R186 responded to was, "They should just do GUYS & DOLLS with an all Black cast, maybe that would be woke enough." I would say this definitely implies that the person who wrote this was unaware of the previous production, otherwise they would have written, "They just do another GUYS & DOLLS with an all-Black cast." So -- shut your trap.

Karen please cancel r188, who is indeed an asshole.

Some of those orchestrations on the 76 OCR of G&D are actually fantastic.

I remember hearing that Frank Stallone played Sky in a stock production in the early 80s. Apparently he had only listened to the '76 cast recording, so he came in crooning the score note-for-note a la James Randolph: "Suddenly I'll KNOW-oh-ohh-oh-oww..." But accompanied by the original (very square) charts. Hilarious!

I worked on the 1976 production of GUYS AND DOLLS and it was pretty damn fantastic. I inherited part of the marquis from the show - a purple and red neon sign spelling out the logo, about 6 feet long. It hung on the wall of my NY apartment for many years.

I wish THAT would have been filmed. Most of Wilson's work is lost to the ages.

The ‘all black’ Guys and Dolls was one of my favorite theatre going experiences. Absolutely thrilling and I still listen to my old lp. Great cast and production. If they ever do a film or tv remake they should go that route. Beyoncé IS Sister Sara! Tiffany Hadish IS Miss Adelaide.

Billy Boy! Always a welcome presence on these threads. Had no idea you worked on that revival (and too cool that you got to take home a piece of the marquis!)

It's a shame the revival wasn't better documented as I've always heard people rave about Wilson's direction/choreography.

May we ask what you did on that production, BillyBoy or would that be revealing too much?

Here are some great color photos of the production. Looked like a BLAST!

Marquee.

There may be rules my dear Marquis, but I flout them all.

Besides which, your spelling is beastly.

I'm listening to the '76 Guys and Dolls cast album. Boy, Ernestine Jackson is fantastic, but Norma Donaldson (who I love), is decidedly not.

Do either Hugh Jackman or Sutton Foster dare to comment on Scott Rudin?

Well, do they?

Manchester’s Royal Exchange staged an all-Black Guys and Dolls at the end of 2017.

And it was thrilling.

R202 Hugh was "very concerned" and Sutton threatened to quit unless Rudin was gone, according to THR

Haddish is a great idea r195

Can Haddish sing, because she sure can't act.

That ain’t going to happen. Totally unrealistic.

R203, I saw that, too, and absolutely loved it. And I LOATHE Guys & Dolls.

I wanted to drain Ray Shell’s love nozzle dry. Woof.

[quote]I'm listening to the '76 Guys and Dolls cast album. Boy, Ernestine Jackson is fantastic, but Norma Donaldson (who I love), is decidedly not.

Agreed about Ernestine, but I also love Norma on the cast album. I think she was smart enough to realize that it would have been foolish to do the same Noo Yawk voice for Adelaide that Vivian Blaine did so brilliantly, plus I guess it wouldn't have seemed authentic to the black experience, so instead she did that sort of cutesy, baby-doll voice that I think worked really well.

Put me down as another vote for a revival of the all-Black Guys & Dolls.

In fairness, I think Olivo's marriage to that guy who was in Rent really fucked her up. There's a reason why he hasn't had much of a career in New York.

[quote]In fairness, I think Olivo's marriage to that guy who was in Rent really fucked her up. There's a reason why he hasn't had much of a career in New York.

What do you know that you're not telling us? Does he have his own major issues? Or are you just guessing that he "fucked up" Olivo, for some reason? Maybe they divorced because of HER issues.

[Quote] Beyoncé IS Sister Sara! Tiffany Hadish IS Miss Adelaide.

You need to update your references. Halle Bailey will be Sister Sara. Keke Palmer will be Miss Adelaide.

Rudin should claim he was molested.

Do we have any Brit friends on here who can tell us more about Helen McCrory? Brantley writes about her like she was the second coming of Judi Dench and Maggie Smith (and comments like Rufus Norris' are along these lines too), but is that aligned with her actual contemporaneous reputation? E.g., she never won an Olivier or an Evening Standard Award, and was not even nominated for an Olivier for performances like Vanya, Medea, and Deep Blue Sea that Brantley writes about as if they were legendary.

Her Deep Blue Sea is posted above.

Which guy from Rent was Olivo married to?

r206 I saw her talk on some interview that she studied musical theatre.

r208 why do you "[italic]loathe[/italic]" Guys & Dolls???

R218 don't bother asking. It's like somebody saying they just loathe West Side Story or My Fair Lady. It can only be due to some great emotional trauma that no one really wants to know about.

Like what? Got some dice stuck up her butt? Molested by a. Salvation Army worker? Has a gastrointestinal issue and is triggered by the word "craps"?

Bernadette in Song and Dance

Does she hit the top note of "Unexpected Song"?

What actress of note (under 40, please!) would we cast in a revival of SONG & DANCE?

Adrienne Warren

Sierra Boggess

Anna Kendrick

Jessie Mueller

Ashley Park

Laura Osnes

Annaleigh Ashford

Phillipa Soo

Patina Miller

Scarlett Strallen.

That arrangement of I'll Know from the all-black G&D is fantastic. That might just be the most enjoyable arrangement of that song that I’ve ever heard. And the Sky and Sarah are great.

That was an odd show, r221. Charlotte AND Christopher d'Amboise. Denise Faye, Gregory Mitchell, Bruce Anthony Davis, Mary Ann Lamb, and Scott Wise!

I did not expect it to make a year, but it did.

Here she is on the Tonys, r222

But Karen O seems to be married to a sound designer now. Is he her second husband? And Will S was in between?

[quote] What actress of note (under 40, please!) would we cast in a revival of SONG & DANCE?

Karen Olivo when she grudgingly comes out of retirement next month.

Cynthia Errivo actually is English. Could she make SONG & DANCE work?

I would be interested in what a BiPOC actress might bring to the role.

Wasn’t ALW working on a revisal of Song and Dance with a gay man at the center of the song cycle? Telly Leung IS Emma!

OMG.

SONG & ELECTRONIC DANCE MUSIC.

Karen Olivo has never “retired,” she has just decided to live a civilian life in a bumfuck state and come back to do shows only when offered to her. Audition life is excruciating and honestly more power to her.

[Quote] Wasn’t ALW working on a revisal of Song and Dance with a gay man at the center of the song cycle? Telly Leung IS Emma!

Oh, yeah. Let's engage Telly Leung when Jonathan Bailey is right there.

R157 Maggie Larkin gets fired from every show that hires her based solely on name dropping. Turns out that name dropping and tweeting are her only skills. She contributes nothing to theatre but lame attempts at gossip. The day she logs off and moves back to wherever the fuck will be a national holiday.

Ali Stroker.

[quote]That arrangement of I'll Know from the all-black G&D is fantastic. That might just be the most enjoyable arrangement of that song that I’ve ever heard. And the Sky and Sarah are great.

Several of the arrangements/tracks on that G&D cast album are indeed fantastic, most notably "I'll Know, "If I Were a Bell," and "More I Cannot Wish You." Some years after that production, I met Ernestine Jackson after another show she was in and told her, in case she wasn't aware, that her recording of "If I Were a Bell" had become a beloved "cult cut" among musical theater aficionados. She seemed genuinely delighted to hear that.

I take it Song & Dance would be updated if revived?

[quote]Maggie Larkin gets fired from every show that hires her based solely on name dropping. Turns out that name dropping and tweeting are her only skills. She contributes nothing to theatre but lame attempts at gossip. The day she logs off and moves back to wherever the fuck will be a national holiday.

Yeah, she seems to be a horrendously nasty piece of work, and a highly toxic troublemaker. Believe or not, some time ago on social media she actually had the nerve to post the equivalent of "I can't tell one old white man in the theater industry from another." Can you imagine if she or anyone else had posted a similar sentiment about old black men or Latinx or Asian women?

R234, she lists a number of theater credits, but it's not clear in what capacity. Do you know, just out of curiosity?

A gay male Song and Dance is one of the dumber ideas I’ve heard of. Don Black’s clunky lyrics about a long-suffering doormat of a woman who falls in love with all the wrong men are bad enough as is. No amount of updating/adapting them will make them better.

R238 Mostly wardrobe assistant/stage management assistant work. Entry level stuff because she keeps getting fired. I know this because one of my friends was called in to replace her and another friend personally fired her. She keeps popping up at industry events and every time I want to ask the room who the fuck keeps inviting her.

R240, thanks for the info. I honestly don't know what I would say to her if I have the displeasure of meeting her face to face. Will keep you posted.....

One more question, can you provide a little background on why she keeps getting fired? Incompetence? Attitude problems? Toxic tweets and Facebook posts? All of the above? Whatever, I'm glad she's generally recognized as a liability.

Who needs a revival of a mediocre show like Song and Dance? You could have the greatest actress in the world play Emma, and it’s still going to be a piece of shit show.

R241 Incompetence & attitude. Trying to be a wardrobe assistant but can’t even do laundry without ruining pieces. Then trying to make it someone else’s problem. She lists the shows she’s been fired from on her résumé as if they went fine. Her work reputation will overtake her name-drop portfolio one day, if there is a god.

Thanks again so much, R243. Name-dropping can be tremendously annoying if essentially harmless, but this beeyotch has also made the huge mistake of going after some of the wrong people. Seems she's more interested in being an obnoxious, toxic "SJW" than in doing her job correctly. Glad to hear her rep is out there, I really appreciate your input.

R244 Happy to speak up. I just want the jobs taken by incompetents to go to competent people in the first place instead of via replacement. A reputation-based industry gets old sometimes but sometimes that axe can’t swing fast enough.

R245, absolutely. And it seems the person in question here is a total loser, incompetent at her supposed job and also a horribly nasty and toxic human being. Sometimes people who are incompetent but nice can get along in life, at least for awhile. Also people who are NOT nice but really good at their what they do. But if you're a double negative.....

R245 hiring by word-of-mouth is a huge problem in the industry. Nobody checks references or verifies resumes. I know one Broadway stage manager now working on film/tv due to covid AND teaching at Pace University in NYC adjunct who claims to be a graduate of Ithaca college, but never came close to graduating. I know one touring road carpenter/automation tech that has been fired off of TWELVE tours and still gets hired...the firings are on his resume like nothing happened. I know people with shows on their resume that that they never worked on or performed in. Whatever people say about you good or bad in NYC is what gets you the job or not. If you're not there to control the narrative, people will torpedo you with bullshit and you'll never know. For my particular technical concentration, the hiring of BIPOC/LBGTQ+ people for top tier 150k/year jobs with no resumes in place of qualified, experienced people has already begun- no need to spend years of your life grinding it out working your way up like the rest of us.

R241 Maybe she's ATC's infamous MockingbirdGirl?

Karen Olivo was married to Matt Caplan (RENT, American Idiot) for a number of years.

Count me in as someone who's not a fan of Guys & Dolls. I saw the vaunted 1992 production in college. I was doing a summer gig teaching a group of high school students at NYU and we took them to a half dozen shows during the four week program. G&D was one of them and I had heard so many great things, had never seen the show (or film) and was looking forward to it, and I really hated it. It just felt corny and dated and the performances were hambone for the most part. Fugue for Tinhorns was lots of fun, and then it all went downhill.

That being said, based on the recording of the 1976 production, I would definitely sit through a tape of that.

Hey, smartasses, I posted that I loathed Guys and Dolls just because I did. I don’t need to take a fucking psychiatric exam to justify my opinion of it to you. But here’s one reason, anyway-the “guys” in the show are cartoon “dese dems and dose” morons out of Central Casting. They’re totally obnoxious. Their “colorful” costumes are ludicrous. However by setting it in an entirely diferent area of NYC (in the Manchester production it was Harlem instead of Times Square) they were a lot more bearable.

By the way I got the name wrong of the Nathan Detroit who I wanted to suck off from noon til night. It was Ray Fearon, not Ray Shell. In that production Nathan was actually sexier than Sky and it worked just fine.

" But here’s one reason, anyway-the “guys” in the show are cartoon “dese dems and dose” morons out of Central Casting."

*

Blame Damon Runyan, r251.

One things that is a little off-putting in the show is that the guys do not (other than the song "I'll Know" which Sarah starts and Sky sings the second verse) use conjunctions when they speak which sounds a bit unreal. The gamblers, including Nathan and Nicely, etc. use "I do not" or "that is" instread of "I don't" and "that's", which sounds a bit stilted. But I guess that is also what makes it of its environment.

oops, "contractions", not conjunctions. My bad.

R247 And yet BIPOCs can’t get long resumes because of racism...see how that works?

Fuck off, Karen.

James Nicola is retiring from New York Theatre Workshop. He had a great run.

[quote]The “guys” in the show are cartoon “dese dems and dose” morons out of Central Casting. They’re totally obnoxious.

If you have that reaction to the show, you have no understanding of the style and tradition of comedy that it represents. Or maybe you just don't like that style of comedy. Which is fine, as long as it's okay with you that LOTS of people do, and their opinion is no less valid than yours.

[quote]Their “colorful” costumes are ludicrous.

I don't believe the original production was costumed quite that way, nor was the movie, especially. That was a design choice made for the '92 Broadway revival, and maybe for some other productions, but it's not an inherent part of the show as written.

[quote]However by setting it in an entirely different area of NYC (in the Manchester production it was Harlem instead of Times Square) they were a lot more bearable.

What the HECK should that have to do with it? What kind of dialect did they use in that production? (I'm afraid to ask.....)

[quote]The gamblers, including Nathan and Nicely, etc. use "I do not" or "that is" instread of "I don't" and "that's", which sounds a bit stilted.

Again, that's part of the style of comedy that some of you people just don't get. The fact that the characters speak that way is funny because it's incongruous that low-life gamblers and street people would express themselves in such a formal, stilted fashion. Or I should say, it's funny to a WHOLE LOT of people, if not to you.

I wasn't criticizing the way the speak (don't be so accusatory -- it's not the same person who wrote the other stuff), as I actually enjoy and have done the show. I was just pointing it out. Jeez.

WE SEE YOU GRAMMATICALLY CORRECT WHITE GUYS AND DOLLS.

Brainwashed Singapore/Fling actually threated someone on the Karen Olivo ATC chat with "We see you". I don't know why he hasn't been banned.

[quote]Brainwashed Singapore/Fling actually threated someone on the Karen Olivo ATC chat with "We see you". I don't know why he hasn't been banned.

Nor do I.

[quote]If you're not there to control the narrative, people will torpedo you with bullshit and you'll never know. For my particular technical concentration, the hiring of BIPOC/LBGTQ+ people for top tier 150k/year jobs with no resumes in place of qualified, experienced people has already begun

This stopped me as well. Putting aside issues of race too large to discuss here... R247, are you suggesting that unqualified LGBTQ+ people are being favored for jobs? Or only queer people of color?

Please clarify, as your statement is confusing. Oh, and you're on a LGBTQ+ website, by the way.

Low tech, but hey...

[quote]Putting aside issues of race too large to discuss here... [R247], are you suggesting that unqualified LGBTQ+ people are being favored for jobs? Or only queer people of color?

Although the statement wasn't completely clear, I assume the poster meant that they are being pressured or forced to hire unqualified POC and also trans people. I highly doubt that they are being pressured or forced to hire unqualified gay men or lesbians.

Patti is blond now

oh christ

Fuck off, Benay, she needs the softness.

Comden and Green who probably saw every musical from the 30s through the 80s said Guys and Dolls was the best musical they ever saw. Watch Stubby Kaye in the film (which is very uneven) singing Sit Down You're Rocking the Boat and if you don't think that's sensational what can one say? Listen to the obc and if you don't think that's one of the best recordings ever of a musical you simply don't like musicals and should stick with superhero movies. I've never seen a good production of it and probably never will but can still say from what we have left to us yeah this is one of the very best and it's not even up for discussion.

R215,

I saw Helen McCrory's Medea, and it was a performance I'll never forget. She was a true creature of the stage, an intelligent woman who always seemed to have so much swimming beneath the surface. I'm so sad she's gone.

R269, I agree that the movie of GUYS AND DOLLS is very uneven, but I would say the many parts of it that do work make it very clear why the piece itself is, indeed, one of the best musicals ever written.

Let’s be grateful that the proposed Vin Diesel film remake of G&D never happened.

Last of the Hausmanns with Helen mc

It's too bad "Guys and Dolls" was never given the proper filmed treatment ... why couldn't they have done it as one of the live musicals on TV? Probably too dated. But it is nearly a perfect musical -- much like "Gypsy."

The Helen Madea is seemingly impossible to post, FFs The National gives zero fucks about so many productions....

[quote]The Helen Madea is seemingly impossible to post

She played Tyler Perry's role?

R266 - oy. Blonde.... does not flatter Patti. Here's a vintage shot of Patti from the days when women didn't wax as much.

R276 ......fuck.

"The Music Man" Star Sutton Foster Breaks Silence on Scott Rudin Abuse Allegations:

Does anyone loathe Gypsy? I'm kind of sick of it at this point but I will always consider of one of the very best.

No r190 YOU shut up!

And your mother wears army boots

No r190 YOU shut YOUR trap.

Tired of Gypsy? Try ROZA!!!!

It's completely understandable why someone might regard GYPSY or GUYS AND DOLLS as a great musical.... and never, ever want to see it again.

I'm completely saturated with GYPSY. And COMPANY, SWEENEY TODD, and (gasp!) FOLLIES. I adore FIDDLER but don't need to see it again anytime soon, and same with SHE LOVES ME (which isn't revived nearly as frequently). I can't think of a Rodgers & Hammerstein revival I need to see, either.

The canon of really great American musicals is slimmer than many people suspect. For someone like me, you either learn to love new shows (with all their flaws) or you get bored with musical theatre altogether.

How are you saturated with GYPSY? You live in the regions?

I don't need to see a few things ever again but given an interesting cast/production I'll never say never.

Though I'm probably done with Mamma Mia. Enuf is Enuf.

And, Carousel. I've been in it and seen it several times and....it's soooooo long and Billy and Julie are both MORONS!

There's a fun idea ... dumbest R&H characters. Will Parker and to a lesser extent, Ado Annie, have to be high on the list.

And Laurie is a bitch and Aunt Eller an old lez.

Dumb, bitch, lez.

And the people left won't even know who they are and won't care. They'll vanish.

Did anything ever come of that whole Walter Bobbie / Jeff Loeffelholz scandal at CHICAGO? I seem to recall there being more than a few holes in the narrative (on both sides) Anyone know the scoop?

The Mary Sunshine probably had a nice nest egg after twenty years on Broadway, no? I guess his sense of self was too tied to going to work - that specific place of work - eight times a week.

My Sunset is filming this June, we just need a bit (all) the funding... sending links

I believe S. Rudin has some free time G.

Not being a cunt, as I can't post it, but the Helen McCrory Madea is kinda stunning. That end scene, carrying them off stage, on her back....FUUCK

Medea.

That Medea is one for the record books. Incidentally, since it was filmed it will be what is shown in schools going forward as a reputable representation of the text. Let’s hope they respect Ms. McCrory in the decades that go on, no major awards for anything notwithstanding. Undeniable brilliance.

[quote]the Helen McCrory Madea is kinda stunning

But hardly definitive.

The Fiona Shaw MEDEA was pretty spectacular, too, with the hotter than hot Jonathan Cake as Jason.

Why hasn't Jonathan Cake become a star?

Cake is a very good actor with a beautiful body but he lacks that quality that makes some actors standout. His body is more memorable than his performances.

Is Cake still married to Julianne Nicholson from Law & Order: CI? She's in the new "Mare of Easttown."

He needs to drop the e, r301.

I remember going to see "Baby Doll" in London because of how hot Jonathan Cake looked in the poster. The play and his body did not disappoint. I cannot find pics of that production but I remember the effect it made on me.

Was he breathlessly erotic, r304?

Anyone here see ROZA when it ran? I'm almost through with r283's video, and the show is quite the interesting mess.

[quote]The Mary Sunshine probably had a nice nest egg after twenty years on Broadway, no? I guess his sense of self was too tied to going to work - that specific place of work - eight times a week.

According to an article that appeared in the NY Times, "Mr. Loeffelholz, at 57, was dealing with the kind of career and life pains every actor goes through — indeed, the pains that many everyday workers go through. He was not getting any younger, and his character, a small but demanding role, was not getting any older. He and his partner had also lost control of a chocolate shop they ran in Rockefeller Center and were fighting with the owners."

So it seems to have been a perfect storm for the poor guy, whom I had met once or twice over the years. Such an incredibly sad story.

Every so often, I like to revisit the girls...

Good for Sutton. That took courage.

R309 And all the while she was being shit on by idiots on social media, while she was actually taking action and doing something. I'm sure those same idiots will still fail to give her credit, of course. Funny how none of them went after any of the West Side Story cast.

a class act. And a great lesson for all that social media shouldn't be a knee-jerk

Meanwhile, Hugh Jackman remains a pathetic coward.

I saw Roza on Broadway. I really liked it and was surprised that it got such awful reviews. Georgia Brown was phenomenal.

Hugh Jackman is incapable of doing anything that conservative boomer moms might not approve of.

I was SO dismayed to hear about Hugh's allegiance to Ivanka and Jared.

I didn't care about the "is he closeted or not?" rumors that have circled round for decades. But being a friend of Trumps just broke the camel's back.

Jeff was a wonderful Mary Sunshine and his death is a tragedy any way you look at it. I hope he’s found peace.

He's dead, Rose. He hasn't "found" anything.

I found a million dollar baby in a five and ten cent store, r317!

I saw Roza and really liked it. Good score, great cast. Besides Georgia Brown, Bob Gunton was also terrific. It had been a hit in Baltimore and in LA at the Taper, so I think New Yorkers hated it from the beginning just on principle.

The Roza video above was filmed at the Taper.

Oh goody, a "march" on Broadway. Led by failed actor and shit stirrer Jaime Cepero.

MORE BIPOC! BURN RUDIN AT THE STAKE! MAKE SURE YOU SPELL MY NAME RIGHT!

March on Broadway Demands

1. Scott Rudin to be removed from the Broadway League - If he is not removed from the Broadway League, we want restoration. We want Scott to publicly choose 20 BIPOC run theatres and donate a LARGE SUM of money to them.

2. A full list of organizations that AEA is working with to help Black, Indigenous, and POC feel safer.

3. A full report of how the 2020 Equity dues were spent and what percentage is being spent to help conversations around diversity.

4. Achieve greater inclusion for trans, nonbinary, and gender-nonconforming artists.

5. We want visibility on how the national council votes for policies. We also want efforts to improve diversity within the council.

6. We want to achieve greater inclusion for artists with visible and nonvisible differing abilities.

What does ANY of the Rudin flap have to do with minorities? This is INSANE!!!! These loons ruin everything.

The March is inclusive of lots of aggravated issues that go beyond Scott Rudin. The marchers are not necessarily accusing him of all of these issues.

Is that correct? Am I understanding this correctly?

Really? Because they want him to give a LARGE SUM of money to them?

WHY?

I never miss an Eden Espinosa march...

Will the theater community now praise Karen Olivo for getting the ball rolling on all this? Do you think her Insta video can be credited for all this new action against Rudin?

I'm so glad they found a new role for Jaime Cepera.

And with a chauvin verdict due this could get bad

Patti did make a good blonde once.

I’m going back into quarantine. Wake me up when Music Man tickets go on sale. Thanks.

This is so irritating it's making me take Rudin's side.

R322 So they learned nothing from the failure of Occupy Wall Street and their ridiculous lists of random demands?

Fuck, this Equus poster is dark and literal, even if it’s going to hint of the nudity to come.

I wouldn't pay $399 for any of those. They're all terrible.

It does make Rudin more sympathetic when out of the blue it's tied to affirmative action when his actions had no prejudice. Everyone else was a piece of shit to him. It's gotten to the point where I'll join a march supporting him.

I agree that the EQUUS poster is especially bad. Uggh.

R336 It does really look like a community college graphic design class project idea from someone who read the Cliff Notes of the play.

R337 Can you imagine the graphic designer’s version of the 6th Sense movie poster with little Caspers surrounding a picture of Haley Joel, lol.

Oh wow, what a brilliant show and hopefully with get a lot of donations for rebuilding the York Theatre. Tom and Michael D'Angora put together an amazing all star benifit. . All star production and no one was with anyone. I miss that place and all the shows and the Mufti's for which I provided the nostaglia for the walls. I missed doing that for a year and hoping to be back again doing it. I donated a seat to the York and by miracle none of them were damaged. If you didn't get to see it, I am sure it will be repeated and please donate to help them get back.

Well, they bullied Robert Roth out of a job, too. For writing a private email.

To be fair, most of the time, graphic designers rough out several concepts just to give producers an idea of the different avenues they can take and if one is chosen, they will obviously work on it to make it the best they possibly can. And also, they'll rough up a few shitty concepts that take five minutes just to make it look like they've put in more work. That being said, I don't know why anyone would want to hang them on their wall.

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1945, "Carousel" opened at the Majestic Theatre.

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 2021, Eden Espinosa found a way to keep her name in the press.

SJWs don't understand the inherent problems that come with demanding "equality of outcomes" which is exactly what these demands always amount to. "Equality of opportunity" is something any smart, decent human should get behind: it's gives us the opportunity to discover and hire even MORE exceptional talent. Zero risk, high reward. But these forced outcomes never lead to any meaningful or lasting change. It just becomes a game of optics, very seldom benefiting the marginalized groups they're advocating for.

Broadway is a bizarre, precarious business: it always has been and always will be. Finding success (as an actor, a creative or as a production) is a strange alchemy. What makes an actor have "it"? What the hell IS "it"? An actor could literally check ALL the right boxes, and STILL not be the right person for the role. It's highly subjective and there's usually a ton of other criteria that factor into their decision making. And by the way, great creatives ARE discriminating! And no, not towards people, but about how well a person may fit in and contribute to the framework of a production. Is this subjective? Of course! Which is why these demands are so ludicrous. They never take this unavoidable gray matter into account.

To think that casting/hiring only comes down to your ethnicity or sexuality is a naive assertion. Likewise, no one should ever expect to be cast simply because they're intersectional (though this is pretty much what they're advocating). Now, if you're actively barred because of those things, that's unacceptable and needs calling out. But in 2021, that's really not what's happening on the whole. It's actually never been a more equitable or inclusive time to BE in the theatre - and it's bound to only get better. But news of progress and inclusion doesn't sit well with those whose identities are wrapped up in perpetual victimhood. So things get painted far worse than they actually are, even when the evidence doesn't support it.

Oh, who needs a window card, I have the 3-sheet.

No, R263, we are on a gay website.

'an honorary Tony for somehow getting that horrible woman to quit acting.' I kind wish instead of standing down he would explain why she is such a horrible woman. The only thing I know of is that she is notorious for canceling. But then why hire her in the first place when she is famous for it?

The fact that the people who want Scott Rudin out are pro-TQ+ just pushed me into the pro-Rudin camp. Good going, motherfuckers!

The March on Broadway kids might want to watch this....

R344 Hey white dude.

Well anybody involved with that march is a self-righteous dumbo.

[quote]dumbo

WE SEE YOU, WHITE WALT DISNEY!

R337 I thought so too, so I was shocked to see he is actually legit - with the original poster designs for Sweeney Todd, Sunday in the Park and The Lion King among his credits.

[quote]Actor-Activists Plan ‘March on Broadway’ to Demand Equity Transparency, Rudin Removal or Restorations

[quote]Scott Rudin to be removed from the Broadway League - If he is not removed from the Broadway League, we want restoration.

Ummm....do they mean reparation(s)? If so, and this is a mistake because their vocabulary is so limited.....how horrifically embarrassing.

And the original Deathtrap

[quote] I thought so too, so I was shocked to see he is actually legit.

Really? You were "shocked???" It's fine if you don't like that poster design, but are you going to be so ridiculous as to rant that it's SO BAD, you were SHOCKED that it was done by a highly respected and successful designer?

Oh, this is all just going to end with tears and some actors getting themselves blacklisted as troublemakers ...

Yes, R354, I do think they mean “reparations,” which is ridiculous.

They want reparations? Who has money in the theater? Good luck, Equity just sent out bills for the next union dues, when they haven't had auditions for a year. At least reduce the amount you're asking for if you are on reduced staff.

I want reparations for anti-gay job discrimination.

R359. Thank you. Why on earth am I paying full dues when theatre is on pause and no one is casting. Ridiculous.

Unions? Reduce fees? When they find the missing "Jitterbug" film footage from [italic]The Wizard of Oz[/italic], maybe.

r339: Are you the real or a fake MLOP?

[quote][R339]: Are you the real or a fake MLOP?

There is no chance that the real mlop posts here, but I agree that that is some very fine ersatz mlop from r339, r363. It could have used a misspelling.

The real MaryAnn LoPinto is actually a sweet lady.

Which is why I love her.

[quote]It could have used a misspelling.

I believe that "benifit . ." and "nostaglia" more than fit the bill.

Quite right, r366. I blame the early hour and my pre-caffeinated state. Also, where are my glasses?

Here's Chita, as mlop would say, "lifting her leg".

“Troublemakers” for not liking Equity’s habit of jerking off the Broadway League. How dare they ask their union to protect them instead of blindly paying dues for a year they couldn’t work. Protesting AEA is long overdue.

R354 “provide restorations in the form of donations to BIPOC-led theatre companies” context helps. Embarrassing you couldn’t read the full sentence.

But why? What's the connection? How about donations to mental-health? Or donations to Actors' Fund? But Honestly, demanding cash--or as they say, "a LARGE SUM of money" [their caps]--is ridiculous and random.

"Who has money in the theatre?"

Scott Rudin

Kevin McCollum

Jeffrey Seller

Sonia Friedman

Barry Diller

David Geffen

R356 The only one ranting is you. And yes, I was shocked. Those designs look like a student's work.

R370 The connection is that AEA hasn’t once proven that they recognize that the hundreds of complaints of explicit, witnessed racism are unacceptable. Karen Olivo didn’t quit because of Scott Rudin, she quit because she got tired of AEA sweeping everything under the rug. AEA doesn’t give a shit about its members; just making everyone pay dues for them to do nothing for them.

The Actors Fund doesn’t do shit for people who were criminally overpaid on shows. Ie full-time non-union assistants, no matter their Broadway credits. They weren’t making enough to qualify for Actors Fund financial assistance when the pandemic hit. Super fucked. What kind of charity has an income requirement?

OK r373 - but what does that have to do with Scott Rudin donating to a Black theatre company? Doesn't your explanation make that demand even more random? How does Rudin donating to BIPOC companies address AEA's shortcomings? And how does his donating help fix his problem of abuse? Or are we making BIPOC donations a form of punishment, like community service cleaning up trash on the highway? Is that good messaging?

Activism is an industry.

R375 No one is asking Scott Rudin to address his abuse by donating to BIPOC organizations. People are asking AEA to put him on the DNW list and separately to make donations. This isn’t about making Rudin do anything; this is about AEA getting their shit together. AEA not even naming Rudin was the last straw for people already fed up with them.

[quote]The Actors Fund doesn’t do shit for people who were criminally overpaid on shows.

r374, did you mean to say "criminally UNDERpaid?

[quote]Ie full-time non-union assistants, no matter their Broadway credits.

What position on a Broadway show allows you to amass a number of Broadway credits that is not covered by a union? The actors, stage managers, stage hands, the ushers, the dressers all are members of a union. Who are you talking about and what "non union" jobs to these people perform?

[quote] Super fucked. What kind of charity has an income requirement?

Specifically what is the requirement to qualify for support from the Actors Fund are you referring to?

[quote]This isn’t about making Rudin do anything; this is about AEA getting their shit together. AEA not even naming Rudin was the last straw for people already fed up with them.

Members of Actors Equity or SAG- AFTRA would be well served to take a minute to reflect on what this industry looked like BEFORE unions. It isn't a pretty picture and many brave union activists established our protections at great personal risk and cost.

Karen Olivo's pied piper routing of attacking the union and calling for its dissolution has the net result of aiding and abetting the anti union sentiment the fucking Republicans have been fomenting and building for years in this country because their corporate overlords would love nothing more than breaking the unions. And the rapaciously stupid golden opportunity Olivo and company are offering anti-unionists is beyond sad and misguided, it is unforgivably indulgent and destructive.

Study the successful civil and union rights movements, and you will see intelligent and targeted activism based on strategy and goals. Anyone who is telling you AEA should be burnt to the ground because of its sins is, firstly an abject idiot but more destructively a useful idiot to Republicans and Corporations who have been trying to destroy Unions in the USA for decades.

Are you an AEA member? Organize a platform and run for office based on that platform. Likes and clicks are easy to get, real change takes work. Marching in parades that make demands unrelated to the central issue the Rudin debacle has raised (bullying and abuse in the workplace) only provide fodder for those that are hungry for useful idiots to help them do help them weaken and destroy the unions.

Can we find a way to make Broadway cheaper? Move it to Atlantic City?

As William Goldman said over 50 years ago in THE SEASON: we no longer have theatrical producers. Broadway has landlords, looking for product to move in and out of their rental properties.

Didn't he make remarks about homosexuals in that as well?

oh good another "what about" defense.

R378 Yes underpaid, sorry. There are tons of Broadway assistant positions not covered by unions. Stage management production assistants being the biggest, then some music assistants, etc etc. the Actors Fund requires proof of earnings over a certain amount over so many years in a theatre field. People who are underpaid for their assistant work don’t qualify.

R379 Or maybe organize something like...a march?

AEA should be absorbed by SAG-AFTRA. Easiest solution.

If you really want to make Broadway cheaper, movie it to San Bernardino.

[quote][R379] Or maybe organize something like...a march?

Yes, by all means organize a march. However, if you dilute the message of your march with an eclectic grab bag of SJW feel good demands rather than demands that are focused around a central issue ...maybe something like, oh I don't know, abuse in the workplace, you are part of the problem, not the solution.

Oh, we need an anthem right now...

This whole sorry business could be solved if they transfer Lavarious Slaughter's production of "The Wiz" to Broadway on Scott Rudin's dime.

[quote] No one is asking Scott Rudin to address his abuse by donating to BIPOC organizations. People are asking AEA to put him on the DNW list and separately to make donations.

r377 I don't think that's what they're saying: We want Scott to publicly choose 20 BIPOC run theatres and donate a LARGE SUM of money to them.

Rudin will continue to make fabulous sums of money no matter what. What I don't understand is that so many powerful people worked with him and no one said to him you can't treat people this way and if you continue do to do so I'm pulling out. Like on the set of Porgy and Bess Poitier did not like the way Preminger was treating Dandridge and said to the director continue like this and I quit. David Lean was treating Judy Davis badly on the set of Passage to India and she read him to filth.

There aren't stars and other rich producers who could put the kibosh on this kind of behavior? Treat people with respect or goodbye.

[Quote] Treat people with respect or goodbye.

Goodbye.

March on Broadway Demands

[quote] 1. Scott Rudin to be removed from the Broadway League - If he is not removed from the Broadway League, we want restoration. We want Scott to publicly choose 20 BIPOC run theatres and donate a LARGE SUM of money to them.

Demand 1 should simply be to have Scott Rudin removed from the League. Period. End. The rest of that nonsensical bullshit about "LARGE SUMS" of money to "BIPOC run theaters) weakens the primary demand by basically announcing you are not firm on your first and primary demand open to negotiate it away in return for some crumbs to be thrown in the direction of minority run theaters. The entitlement and naïveté reeks signals you are an inexperienced and gullible negotiator.

[quote] 2. A full list of organizations that AEA is working with to help Black, Indigenous, and POC feel safer.

Did an 11 year old write this? Anyway you should be demanding a safe work place and a definition of what safety in the rehearsal room or wherever actually means. Somebody might "feel unsafe" It is important people BE safe. FEELING safe based on no criteria is unsustainable.

[quote] . A full report of how the 2020 Equity dues were spent and what percentage is being spent to help conversations around diversity.

What percentage of dues is being spent to help "conversations" about "diversity" ??? Jesus Christ who wrote this? Significant resources are already dedicated within ACTORS EQUITY and SAG AFTRA to address, racial and gender diversity along with performers with disability programs. You are asking for what already exists and as a result you are weakened as a negotiator. If you want representation how would you enforce that?

[quote] Achieve greater inclusion for trans, nonbinary, and gender-nonconforming artists.

Vague and tangential to the central issue of bullying in the industry.

[quote] We want visibility on how the national council votes for policies. We also want efforts to improve diversity within the council.

Then run for fucking office on a platform that you create, rally the support of members and get elected to office.

[quote] We want to achieve greater inclusion for artists with visible and nonvisible differing abilities.

Vague,, ridiculous and entitled. "nonvisible" differing abilities like what ? Fear of public spaces? be specific. What about lack of talent? is that a "nonvisible different ability"

This is a tragic misuse of an important opportunity to make some headway in accountability.

Like I said, this is an attack on a gay man led by TQ+ supporters. They are the bullies.

r395, Scott Rudin is a gay. Scott Rudin is also an abusive bully. Scott Rudin himself has abused plenty of gay people. Just because the demands of this March on Broadway are ridiculous doesn't mean Rudin shouldn't be hung out to dry.

The fact that the people behind us are the same ones pushing TQ+ propaganda is proof that he is targeted for being gay, not for being abusive.

r397, if you really believe this, you have outperformed the organizers of the "Broadway March" in the area of naïveté If you are just trolling (likely) fuck off

I believe it because it’s the truth. Don’t deny it, defy it.

There are more abusive heterosexuals in any given industry than there are gay people. Heterosexuals are the ones who normalized abuse. Heterosexuals are the ones normalizing violence and bullying and saying “oh well, that’s show business“ to anyone who objects. Heterosexuals are the ones who need to be canceled for this reason. Hell, I’m glad Scott Rudin abused breeders because that’s payback for what they’ve been doing to us for millennia and are still doing to this day. This is how.

Broadway is for gay people. Perhaps it’s time gay men started getting organized and started making similar demands that are not only non-negotiable but that will increase in number exponentially until every single one of them is met until gay men are given absolute power over every aspect of existence everywhere in the universe.

If Scott Rudin were a woman, you would be defending this behavior as payback for millennia of heterodegenerate male misogyny.

r399 is Matt, isn't he?

Removing Rudin from the League is absurd. He produces a lot of shows that employ a lot of people. If removed, there will be a huge vacuum, since other producers do not have the capital or heft to fill the void.

Broadway is a business. Some people are jerks. If you don’t want to work with jerks, don’t. But jerks shouldn’t be banned. Crikey.

Dear r399: Not enough FFs in the world.

Forgive me, what is “TQ+“?

TQ+ is a new rapper.

R386 Equity auditions (when they are actually held) have enough people trying to get spots without opening it up to many SAG-AFTRA members who can't be heard without a mic, even in an audition room.

[quote]"Provide restorations in the form of donations to BIPOC-led theatre companies” context helps. Embarrassing you couldn’t read the full sentence.

The correct word, even in that context, would still be "reparations." The definition of "restoration" is "the action of returning something to a former owner, place, or condition." How would that apply in this context? I guess you're as uneducated and grammar-challenged as the people who drafted those ridiculous demands. Now, THAT'S embarrassing -- all the more so because, in your incredible stupidity, you had the nerve to challenge me on MY vocabulary and reading comprehension ability.

[quote]Those designs look like a student's work.

In your opinion, for what little it may be worth. I'm not even going to bother to ask you to explain in what way you feel those designs look like "a student's work," because I'm sure you're unable to explicate.

[quote]Removing Rudin from the League is absurd. He produces a lot of shows that employ a lot of people. If removed, there will be a huge vacuum, since other producers do not have the capital or heft to fill the void.

This may be semantics, but wouldn't it be possible for Rudin to continue producing even if he wasn't actually a member of the League? At least in the beginning, didn't Disney produce on Broadway before they joined the League? Of course, then the question would be, what's the point of banning Rudin from the League if he could still produce on Broadway anyway? Butt some people might nevertheless think it worthwhile to ban him as a gesture, as in "You're so reprehensible that we don't want you in our group, even if you're still allowed to play on our field."

[QUOTE]Butt some people

Pics please.

Here ya go, r408...

R407 Your insecurities are showing. Projection is a terrible thing, isn't it?

Who is MLOP?

An ex Shangri-La.

[quote] What about lack of talent? is that a "nonvisible different ability"

LOL, come sit by me.

Excuse me but to have a nonvisible different ability is not enough!

I clearly recollect seeing the credit: "Personal Assistant to William Ivey Long" in many Playbills. I can assure you, those boys do not belong to any theatrical union.

Some of you are really showing your age. What's it like, to live so far back in the past?

[quote]Forgive me, what is “TQ+“?

A new streaming service.

We lived it already, r416. Why do you have a thorny stick up your ass when we choose to revisit it?

I choose to revisit Mary swirling onto Broadway!

R407

“I guess you're as uneducated and grammar-challenged as the people who drafted those ridiculous demands. Now, THAT'S embarrassing -- all the more so because, in your incredible stupidity, you had the nerve to challenge me on MY vocabulary and reading comprehension ability.“

I’m a Broadway script doctor with two degrees but sure. Maybe interchanging those two technically different words wasn’t optimal. Any linguistic professional will tell you it doesn’t actually matter for communicating meaning. Language is for communicating, not “winning grammar.” But I can see that this is deeply personal for you so...go off I guess.

Maybe they meant to say restitution.

Restitution for what?

They meant to say “prostitution.”

[quote] your incredible stupidity

r407 is an insufferable ass.

r420 has class.

As you were.

[quote]I’m a Broadway script doctor with two degrees but sure. Maybe interchanging those two technically different words wasn’t optimal. Any linguistic professional will tell you it doesn’t actually matter for communicating meaning. Language is for communicating, not “winning grammar.”

"Restoration" and "reparation" are not just "two technically different words," that have very different meanings. You are correct that it's not just a question of grammar, it's a question of clearly communicating meaning. But I can't believe "any linguistic professional" would condone the complete misuse of a word or feel that such misuse would still somehow correctly "communicate meaning."

[quote]Maybe they meant to say restitution.

Maybe. One meaning of "restitution" is "recompense for injury or loss." The meaning of "reparation" is "the making of amends for a wrong one has done, by paying money to or otherwise helping those who have been wronged." Those two meanings are a lot closer to each other than the meaning of "restoration," which is "the action of returning something to a former owner, place, or condition." To demand that Scott Rudin provide "restoration" is meaningless, because these misguided fools used the wrong damned word. And that's a fact, not an opinion, regardless of R420 stating otherwise.

[quote]“The difference between the almost right word and the right word is really a large matter. ’tis the difference between the lightning bug and the lightning.” Mark Twain

The meaning of words matter, especially when one is making demands

[quote]The meaning of words matter, especially when one is making demands

Not to insufferable idiots like R420. If someone sought monetary compensation for something and instead demanded "monetary constipation," R420 would say: "That's okay, their meaning was still clear."

I am leaning towards the belief that r420 isn't a writer, r427, but rather a troll. Words and their meanings are sacred to writers.

R428, but R420 is a "Broadway script doctor!!!" With "two degrees!!!"

One can only imagine what those degrees are.....

Jesus, time to pull out Miss Nichols.

What on earth gave Barbara Nichols the idea that she had any talent?

The idea of someone defining themselves as a "Broadway script doctor!" It is a pretty small club.....

It's true, Joi, that she didn't have your sparkling coloratura!

r427's example is a malapropism. We have a current thread that shows many DLers don't really understand what those are,

Oh, won't someone please, Please, PUH-LEEEEEEEEEEEZE shit in my mouth? Especially if they've eaten more corn than Carol Channing at a Memorial Day picnic?

[quote]The idea of someone defining themselves as a "Broadway script doctor!" It is a pretty small club.....

It is a very small club indeed. Since most plays produced on Broadway are revivals and therefore cannot be rewritten or altered without express permission of the playwright or the estate, I am guessing this person punches up book musicals.

I'd love to hear more from the script doctor: Does he/she have to sign an NDA? Are you in the royalty pool? What is your relationship like with the original playwright, is it tense?

Let’s get this thread back on track. Claybourne Elder. Who’s had him?

Clay has a sweet, sweet hole.

Another, relatively new person on ATC, calling out Singapore/Fling as a defamer, which he is, among other his other brainwashed postings. S/F threatened someone recently saying "We see you". Ann still won't ban him. Getting too political over there to have any fun recently to even post about theater.

Broadway Baby: Michael Kors on 50 Years of Opening Nights, Diva Crushes and a Dream Revival:

Anthony Powell Dies: Oscar- & Tony-Winning Costume Designer Was 85:

R434, people who make malapropisms never understand what they are, except for R.B. Sheridan, who gave them their name. (Making them singularly appropriate for a theatre thread.)

The source of humour behind the malapropism is really schadenfreude: I'm clever and I know what the real word you want is, but you're dumb/undereducated and you think that one is correct.

R440 Oh. I am so going to join that site to read that article.

I saw someone argue with an older lady at the store yesterday. Now I think that guy should make restorations and donate to MY favorite charity.

Personally, I enjoy reading all the political controversy on ATC.

And it's very easy and fun for me to imagine all the major personalities as people I know and have worked with over the years: MockingBirdGirl, Singapore/Fling, Ryhog, Chromolume, Dramedy, and then, of course, NewtonUK, and Michael Portantiere, who I actually know. This new guy (or gal) MRH is quite the doozy adding special spice.

r440 - YIKES!!!

[quote]Especially if they've eaten more corn than Carol Channing at a Memorial Day picnic?

Seeing as this is the theater thread, I immediately went to Carol Channing starring in "Picnic."

Whatever happened to "Vera Charles" over on All That Chat? They got into it with Ann yeeeeears ago and were banned from the site. Vera, are you here with us?

r440 -

M.K.: Not Broadway, but when I was designing Celine in Paris, I got a call from costume designer Arianne Phillips, she was working on the play “Up for Grabs” in London. She said, well, Madonna is starring, she plays a very powerful art dealer, and I thought the clothes you showed for Celine would be perfect for her character, who is very successful but not the nicest person the world. So she wore a lot of Celine.

WWD: You should do a Broadway show.

M.K.: I’d love to redo “A Chorus Line.”

R448 for awhile VeraCharles had That's All Chat, which was a gossip site about ATC. It was fun and bitchy, and I miss it.

What words can I search on YouTube to find the Sondheim/Lonny Price documentary BWTTECHH? Or is it streaming anywhere?

I want a friend to see it if it’s still up.

Thank you[bold] : )

Netflix r451

I really enjoyed the documentary, but a day later it left me a bit uneasy. I felt a bit sad for some of the people who clearly still hadn't moved on from the experience. It really warped them.

I felt a bit sad, too but after watching ANNIE: LIFE AFTER TOMORROW I wanted to slit my wrists.

[quote]Whatever happened to "Vera Charles"?

I too miss Vera's That's All Chat gossip site. I exchanged messages with "Vera" a few times, and he was a great guy. I can't recall the details, but I think there were some legal threats or someone stalker-y, which is why he discontinued his site.

[quote]What words can I search on YouTube to find the Sondheim/Lonny Price documentary BWTTECHH? Or is it streaming anywhere?

Best Worst Thing is still streaming on Netflix.

[quote]R453 I really enjoyed the documentary, but a day later it left me a bit uneasy. I felt a bit sad for some of the people who clearly still hadn't moved on from the experience. It really warped them.

Yes, it’s sad. Not just because the cast suffered a BWay failure... but because they had a really good score by America’s premier composer that they were [italic]singing the shit out of.[/italic]

They really thought this was going to be a golden stepping stone to a grand life in the theater... then their show was EVISCERATED and they were all essentially dumped in the gutter [bold]: (

Best Worst Thing is so depressing because I saw the show 3 times in its last week and I loved it so much. It was so much better than it looked because of the production design. The sets and costumes were not helpful but the score, orchestra and staging were Broadway at its best. The book accumulated power as it went backwards in time so that the penultimate scene was so heartbreaking in its exhilarating hope. And the people in that scene MUST be very young for it to have its full effect. Probably the biggest problem for the show is that you will never find the right cast for it. Convincing middle aged people who can play convincing people in their late teens.

If Prince had found a design concept, if only he had Aronson to work with, it would have ran. It seems that the more they tried to fix it after the original production the worse it got. The closest Prince and Sondheim had to a big hit was ALNM and that still was not a hard ticket to get. I don't think even Company had a sold out week. Their partnership was legendary but their commercial success was not.

I would have seen Merrily many more times if it had run. Opening Doors alone was one of the best things I've seen on stage let alone the magnificent Our Time. Broadway hasn't been as good since.

When does The Drama Book Store re-open?

Does anyone know if lucrative television gigs align with Karen O's integrity? I just saw her on an old ( but pretty good) episode of Law & Order SVU . Is she giving up television as well?

Is the film version of MERRILY with Ben Platt, Beanie Feldstein and Blake Jenner still happening? They were going to shoot a sequence every few years.

I thought Jenner was being canceled.

[quote] America’s premier composer

Oh, dear

What did I do ? ? ?

[quote] Premier can act as either an adjective or noun that means the first or best or a political leader, respectively. Premiere can act as a noun, verb, or adjective that means the first showing or initial release of a film or other type of entertainment.

The OBC cast of Merrily was singularly unattractive/unappealing. To put it bluntly many of them were downright fugly. No eye candy AT ALL. If Brent Barrett had ended up in the final cast line-up he would have stood out like a sore (but hot) thumb.

[quote]it would have ran.

Oh, dear.

R458, you actually think Merrily would have run longer if it had a decent set design. Uhhhh...no, it wouldn’t have.

It needed to have a good visual design. Prince himself said he couldn't find a visual concept for it. He needed Aronson. And yes if he had figured it out it would have run longer. So Uhhh yes. Would it have been a smash hit and run for years? No. None of the Prince/Sondheim shows were smash hits. But they could have gotten 6 months to a year out of it. The original cast could have had a better lead but the rest of the cast was excellent. Price and Morrison were wonderful.

I saw a (DL Fave) Michael Arden-directed "Merrily" a few years ago where they had younger performers in various scenes as sort of "ghosts" of the three main characters.

apologies, r464, I stand corrected.

^^ that’s okay!

In hindsight I pondered whether it was wrong to refer to Sondheim simply as a composer when he also writes lyrics... but that all starts to get kind of unwieldy.

Can he just be referred to as a composer, as a sort of shorthand?

Glenn and Patti prior Sunset

Just a private recording (I think) from a preview. Yet thousand times more emotional raw and real than AnnE’s movie version. I love this song sung by Patti.

R471, he composed both lyrics and music, so yes.

Equity puts out a statement, basically setting up an anonymous hotline for anyone who experienced abuse by Scott Rudin (even non-Equity members? What are they going to do for them?) and saying that despite what people are demanding, Rudin can't be kicked out of the Broadway league, and their hands are tied. What a surprise.

Isn't today the day of the March on Broadway to end Rudin's abuse? I haven't heard anything about it happening.

[quote]I just saw her on an old ( but pretty good) episode of Law & Order SVU .

I love that episode. Anna Leigh Ashford and some other theater folk are in that episode ( I guess in every episode really) Ashford played a kind of crazy bitch who seduced and used gullible men. At one point the guy whose life she ruined said "I thought she was at the perfect intersection of hot and crazy" My partner and I have quoted that endlessly.

Say what you will about Rob Roth's email to Rudin but I am stunned that people aren't taking that nosy, snitch of a passenger to task for spying on and revealing what was PRIVATE correspondence. SJWs have brought back their own brand of McCarthyism: spying and naming names in the hope of silencing those with opposing views. Because to the woke, these aren't just differences of opinion, these views are seen as heretical. And heretics must be punished! It's more a religious crusade than upholding actual progressive, liberal politics.

Obviously, it was unbelievably stupid of Roth to write the email (or pledge any allegiance to Rudin) but this brand of "got ya!" witch hunting isn't going to end well for anyone. If I were Roth, I'd be suing the offending passenger for lost income.

Has Rob Roth directed ANYTHING since the original production of Beauty and the Beast other than other companies of B&TB? Theme park shows and ice capades at Disneyland?

He directed Elaborate Lives, the original aborted version of Aida.

In other news, he is supposedly crazily well endowed. Just not with talent.

THIS DAY IN BROADWAY HISTORY: In 1977, "Annie" opened at the Alvin Theatre.

I think the anti-Rudin march got moved to tomorrow because of the weather.

no, it was always supposed to be the 22nd.

[quote]No, it was always supposed to be the 22nd.

Incorrect, it was indeed rescheduled from the 21st to the 22nd because of a bad weather forecast. But thanks for your contribution.

Wusses.

They are weak and stupid.

Tomorrow's weather is supposed to be worse than today.

The sun'll come out tomorrow, r487.

Did any of you see Stanley Tucci in Frankie and Johnny? Did he present his D? Was it spectacular?

Well I saw it but remember the stage being on the dark side. I remember him being handsome nude but he was average and very nice. In other words just about perfect.

R472 - Andrew Rannells tells a pretty funny story about the time Glenn Close crashed his dinner with Patti LuPone and Jon Hamm

[quote] Incorrect, it was indeed rescheduled from the 21st to the 22nd because of a bad weather forecast. But thanks for your contribution.

Actually, when the press release went out, it was scheduled for the 22nd. They may have decided in closed door meetings to do it on the 21st, but when the announcement went out, it was the 22nd.

Also, you're an asshole.

In the initial announcement I read online, the crazy quilt Rudin-Equity-BIPOC protest was originally planned for today, the 21st. I remember that it was originally planned for the 21st, and at least two people in this thread remembered that it was originally planned for the 21st, and when I was speaking with a friend earlier today, after the weather didn't turn out so bad after all, he said, "Too bad they moved that protest to tomorrow, they could have done it today after all."

[quote]Did any of you see Stanley Tucci in Frankie and Johnny? Did he present his D? Was it spectacular?

r490 has it about right, r489. One night, though, there was a medical emergency in the house. Tucci, fully nude, came to the edge of the stage to ask if there was a doctor in the house. If he is just a show-er? Respectable. If he's a grower? Impressive.

He was clearly very comfortable in his skin.

Tucci loved strutting around the stage nude. He had a gorgeous tight body back then and I as an audience member didn’t mind at all.

Did that really happen in the legitimate theater?

Vera Charles started a parody ATC account called “That’s All Chat” for awhile, but I think under threat from Ann, he gave it up. Either that or he just got bored with it.

You know who would have enjoyed watching Stanley Tucci parade his hot nude body across the stage? Arlene Francis. Bennett Cerf would have, too. But Dorothy Kilgallen - it would have offended her Catholic schoolgirl sensibilities.

The theatre gossip thread has such low standards for "attractive."

He must have been hot enough for the 8-times-a-week-fake-fuckng for Falco to begin an affair with the married Tucci. (We used to call them showmances)

They makes no sense. Ugly people fuck, just as anyone does.

Anybody have a free link to the Hartford Stage production of The Sound Inside? I can’t pay $25 right now although I wish I could.

It's worth the $25. Watched it last night.

Is that the one with the no name actors?

Who will play Scott Rudin at the Ghost Tonys this year? Or is it next year? I'm so confused.

Lincoln Center TOFT collection has a video of the Tucci-Falco "Frankie & Johnny". Lighting was kind of dark though in the nude scenes.

Lighting was terrific for the John Slattery nude scene in "The Lisbon Traviata" though. Worth seeing, and this is way before he turned gray!

Tucci has a great body, and before he lost his hair was sexy as fuck. But whenever he opens his mouth, it all goes wrong. The guy is one of the hammiest overactors ever.

I had friends who knew Slattery well in the Lisbon Traviata days. Said he definitely fluffed before his spectacular nude entrance.

Dorothy Kilgallen may have been a Catholic schoolgirl, but it didn't stop her from almost fucking the gay Johnnie Ray in a night club.

the march on broadway has 8 demands now

That's two more demands than participants.

I demand more male frontal nudity on Broadway.

[Quote] it didn't stop her from almost fucking the gay Johnnie Ray in a night club.

Dorothy couldn't maintain an erection?

Anyone in NYC, I expect step-by-step coverage of this march. Has it started yet?

[quote]Lighting was terrific for the John Slattery nude scene in "The Lisbon Traviata" though. Worth seeing, and this is way before he turned gray!

I wasn't really aware of Slattery before Mad Men. I figured he was one of those guys who grew into his good looks in middle age, but, nope, he was HOT in his youth, too. Woof! Maybe the performing arts library should start an Only Fans account. I bet they'd make bank!

R512 - Oh, that's the tall, mean tranny from Difficult People. She was actually hilarious on that show. It's always the lesser knowns and out of work actors who seem to get wrapped up in these movements. I mean, don't get me wrong, I think greater representation and diversity, better working conditions, freedom from abuse etc. are all fair and just demands. I'm just guessing there won't be a lot of Tony Award winners participating. Or maybe I'm wrong. Whatever.

[quote]the march on broadway has 8 demands now

I demand that any plans for more jukebox musicals be canceled immediately.

I demand that Audra return at least two of her Tonys!

I demand that Nick Adams finally get plastic surgery to correct his clownface.

Don't be ridiculous! Nick Adams died fifty years ago!

I demand the chorus boys at Moulin Rouge present hole to justify those premium ticket prices!

I demand RuPaul or Billy Porter replace Patti if Company reopens. No more transgender discrimination.

They should have Rachel Bay Jones replace Lenk.

[quote]They should have Rachel Bay Jones replace Lenk.

Although I still think the idea of a female Bobby/Bobbi is weird and pointless, it does seem to me that Jones would be FAR better casting in that role.

I demand a radical revisal of the show, to be called MIXED COMPANY.

A non-binary genderqueer Bobbi and sexually fluid casting for all of his friends.

Triggering language (eg, "You could drive a person CRAZY") to be extensively revised ("You could enable and amplify voices unlike your own").

er, excuse me... "casting for all of THEIR friends"

A thousand apologies.

Your hilarious trans ideas are just as funny as your cross dressing YouTube sketches, Matt.

Oy, those demands - while all worthwhile - seem like a hodgepodge of woke-stew.

[quote]Anyone in NYC, I expect step-by-step coverage of this march. Has it started yet?

Is there a bidding war among the networks for broadcast rights? Will there be floats and a huge Scott Rudin balloon?

So did the march happen? Did it end racism?

There does seem to have been a decent turnout - looks like it filled (well, as much as a socially distanced crowd can) Columbus Circle.

It is funny to me how many of the actors I follow have only mentioned this in their IG Stories, not on their main feed. Guessing they don't want any lasting record of their involvement, just in case.

I assume the majority in that crowd aren't very talented.

It's a Man 5 type crowd

In light of ANNIE's 44th anniversary, a little something to lighten the mood! Dorothy Loudon, Bob Fitch and Barbara Erwin tearing up "Easy Street" at the Tonys. A GREAT arrangement by Peter Howard, choreographed by Peter Gennaro.

R511, Dorothy had to have fucked Johnnie Ray at least once, because he was the biological father of her youngest son, Kerry.

Her husband Richard Kollmar knew it and threw Kerry out of the family home after Dorothy died.

Here's Kerry Kollmar as an adult, looking very much like Johnnie Ray.

What age was Kerry when Dot died?

Died, r538? Or....

R538, Kerry was only 11 when Dorothy died.

I believe he went to live with a relative or family friend after Richard Kollmar disowned him.

WE SEE YOU STRAIGHT AND WHITE JOHNNY RAY!

[Quote] I believe he went to live with a relative or family friend after Richard Kollmar disowned him.

Kollmar paid for his care?

Poor old Johnny Ray('s daughter)

Anyone get to see Arlene in Gigi?

R544 I saw Arlene, was who game, but disappointed not to have seen Agnes Moorehead, who had gotten sick. Great to see Alfred Drake, Daniel Massey and Maria Karnilova. Karin Wolfe was fine as Gigi -- she was pilloried by some critics basically for not being Audrey Hepburn or Leslie Caron.

correction: "who was game and fun"

I demand a nick cordero theatre!

No, a MRS Nick Cordero theater!

Now, I am crying. Thank you all for remembering.

Karnilova...

She doesn't sound like someone who would be named Karnilova.

Didn’t Karin Wolfe replace another actress who played Gigi during the West Coast tryout?

Didn't Penny Fuller replace someone else in "Applause" though?

Who on earth is ryhog? Is he a failed producer?

Penny Fuller replaced Fiona Apple.

No, Fuller replaced Diane McAfee out of town as Eve. I later saw McAfee in the part in the 2nd National opposite the execrable Patrice Munsel.

She'd put on a bit of weight.

I love a mass of people who don't work telling people to give up their Broadway contracts.

[quote]Penny Fuller replaced Fiona Apple.

Penny Fuller replaced Diane McAfee, Fiona Apple's mother, who got the heave-ho before "Applause" opened. McAfee later played Eve Harrington on tour.

R556, She also played Eve in a production with Alexis Smith.

R558 One of the key people pushing this is a former Newsie who seems to have quit theatre entirely to become a full time student.

One of the clips I've seen from the march has them chanting "You've got trouble" - you'd think Rudin was only producing The Music Man.

They want AEA to punish Rudin, but I'm still waiting to hear of one instance when he abused an AEA member.

[quote]No, Fuller replaced Diane McAfee out of town as Eve.

Did Diane McAfee ever play Kim McAfee?

A report on the "march"...

Watching an NYU/Atlantic Theatre student production of "Mr. Burns, A Post-Electric Play," which I'd never seen.

They've actually staged it, so it's not just another Zoom reading.

But the entire cast is wearing masks, which tends to.... muffle their dialogue. A lot.

So that's a problem.

If there were "several hundred" people at that march, why are there only 10 people in the photo? If you have a big crowd, you show a big crowd.

Like Trump's inauguration.

Deadline has a better photo of the march.

Some of you may not approve. But it's an actual event.

GORGEOUS: William Daniels Remembers Barbara Harris (A Thousand Clowns & On a Clear Day)

GORGEOUS: Austin Pendleton Remembers Barbara Harris

R564

[quote]“As I look into this crowd, I think about all of the dreams that have been deferred so white dreams could soar,” Nase said at the protest. “White dreams have soared in theatrical plantations. So, say no. Don’t take your contract. Don’t go back to the plantation.”

Jesus Christ.

Oh, and this guy has a single credit on IBDB as playing Old Deuteronomy in the Cats tour.

All the photos showing a big crowd are fake.

This is a witch hunt against Jews and homosexuals, plain and simple.

Local stations here in NYC all ran big stories with video about the march on their evening newscasts. There were definitely several hundred people there.

Meanwhile, it's often posted but I never get tired of this:

Karin Wolfe was totally uninteresting in GIGI. Too bad they fired the first one, Teresa Stevens, in LA. She was younger and at least interesting. Arlene was divine in GIGI, not quite as arch as Aggie Moorehead, but special anyway.

Dear Arlene!

It seems the racist white queens here will grasp at any straw to justify this glorified lynch mob.

If Arlene had been a mystery guest, and someone asked her if she was a character person, what would she and John Daly reply?

Calling for diversity while calling for a gay Jew to be fired. If you don't see the contradiction here, you are part of the problem.

If this was about abusive behavior per se, this would have happened years ago. This is woke antisemitism and woke homophobia, pure and simple.

Fuck inclusion and fuck diversity.

We don't need non-Jews or non-gays on Broadway. Or in Hollywood. Or anywhere for that matter.

I've been through so much diversity!

[quote] There were definitely several hundred people there.

There were 350 people there. And one third of them were photographers.

That is not *several* hundred and it's pathetic.

Thank you to the poster who posted those wonderful William Daniels and Austin Pendleton interviews. I was fortunate to see Barbara Harris in On a Clear Day and The Apple Tree, as well as all her films. She was a true treasure.

Barbara Harris as Bobbi in COMPANY? Too quirky (and yes, dead)?

Her Sally would have been one for the ages.

Too bad she couldn't have been coaxed to do something like Madam Arcati in an Encores "High Spirits" or "Dear World". She would have been memorable.

GORGEOUS: John Cullum Remembers Barbara Harris

Gorgeous: A Barbara Harris Tribute (1935-2018) Film, Theatre, & Television montage

JFC who gives a fuck about Barbara Harris?

R576, I believe her name was actually Therese Stephens?

Speaking of French ladies, what happened to the lovely gal who played the lead in Andrei Serban’s gorgeous production of The Umbrellas of Cherbourg at the Public? Her name was Christianne something (not Noll) and I vaguely remember she’d been in a cult or ended up in one.

[quote]R559 Penny Fuller replaced Diane McAfee

Diane McAfee replaced Kim MacAfee in Ohio.

^^ oh. i thought i was funny. but r 563 already made this joke.

now i’m sad [bold]: (

Not a Broadway role, but Miss Trixie in A Confederacy of Dunces would have been a good farewell for Barbara Harris.

R591, You mean Stefanianne Christopherson, who was also the original voice of Daphne in Scooby Doo.

Now there’s a name you don’t hear every day.

Thank god.

Boy, Matt the Loon is all over this thread. The mentally ill fat, Jewish aspie is in his heyday!

Can you imagine having Scott Rudin's various mental defects and then seeing AN ENTIRE MARCH (however large or small it actually was) about how bad you are.?

R583 Yes, 350 would count as several hundred. And what's really pathetic is trying to be that pedantic and then suggesting there were over 100 photographers there.

Everyone with a cell phone is a photographer.