Martina Navratilova asks for reason and science-based approach to wonen's sports: Please please, sir, we beg you.

She is correct. As is JK Rowling.

F&F.

I agree with Martina Navratilova. I cannot understand enough why are folks who represent GLB people speaking for Trans people. This is really damaging the Gay, Lesbian and Bisexual Movement. Give the Trans people their own space. Do not include them with us. Nobody want to harm anyone or discriminate. Facts are Facts but if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck guess what it is a Duck. Even if you try to call it an Eagle.

R2 = Jessica Yaniv

[quote]cannot understand enough why are folks who represent GLB people speaking for Trans people.

They support this but not ex-gays. It’s hypocritical BS.

My pussy stinks

Well chop off my dick and call me Caitlyn!

Trans = Damage = Exploitation Trans = Taking over the GLB movement Trans = Neither Here or There

[quote]transgender children

Fascinating phenomenon only seen in the last five years.

Maybe we just need to do a separation of school and sports and let schools concentrate on academics and let parks and recreation run sports as an after school and weekend programming. I’m fine and believe we still need physical education in schools and as there always should have been there should be no separation of males and females in classes or teams with everybody mixed together.

She's absolutely right. She's part of the generation that worked towards establishing women's pro sports and getting the media and public interested in them, and she knows damn well that letting men in frocks compete will ruin it all.

Sadly, nothing will change until some visible damage is done.

R10, I agree that school sports are given far too much importance, but if we took them out of the schools then poor kids wouldn't have access.

Still, we need to downplay them whole business, if only to shut up people like my co-workers who go on and on about their kids competitions! Gawd, they seem to think it's the most interesting and important thing in the world, I think it's become a way for middle-class parents to compete with each other over who's the best parent. So kids are all pressured to compete and give mommy and daddy something to brag about, and of course the trans kids want to compete on their own terms, and if for some of them that means putting the girls in their place, so much the better.

[quote]if we took them out of the schools then poor kids wouldn't have access.

R10 proposes letting the park districts provide sports. That seems reasonable to me.

The irony here is that it's always been Martina who was "stunning and brave" by living openly as a lesbian at a time when it cost her millions and millions of dollars in endorsements and opportunities.

Bravo. She's doing the Lord's work.

R13, have you ever been to a park in an inner city? Or seen how much distance their is between rural-poor kids and the nearest park? Transferring youth sports to the park system would mean shooing the homeless camps out of the parks and providing transportation to kids who'd need to to participate, all sorts of stuff that would take time and money, that isn't really necessary as schools already provide sports.

I don't have any real objection to school sports as such, they might as well be included in schooling and call it learning about staying healthy, working as part of a team, and learning how to win competitions. All useful life skills. I just want the fucking parents to shut up about it all, which is best accomplished by sane adults making it clear that it's a boring subject of conversation. And for girls to have the same access as boys, which does mean separation for biological sex in most sports.

Love her.

Thank you Martina - legend beyond compare.

Why do girls have to miss out so trans people can feel included?

Just have two teams. We already have junior and varsity; we can have “Open” which is for all genders and then “Womens” which is for cis women only. You can even have everyone on the same track, just reward and mark time separatly.

Ah, yes, reason and science from noted scholar Martina Navratilova. Joe shouldn't listen to Republican hatemongers

R19, girls aren't missing out. Tons of schools don't even have any trans kids. Trans people make up less than 1% of the population.

R1 probably retweets comments from homophobes like his idol JK Rowling, a woman who claims she's been silenced but won't shut up

R19, if there are "open" and "women's" teams, who gets the athletic scholarships?

That's one of the big things that's at stake with the issue of trans in women's sports, access to higher education through athletic scholarships.

R20 saying they are 1% is a piss poor excuse to not take a stance. There are open leagues -- boys sports have always been open, with good reason. You don't see girls dominating those though, with good reason. Use your brain.

Bravo! It’s time to start giving attention to these legitimate questions. Trannies are bullies. We need to start confronting them.

Oh, goodie, the "YOU'RE ALL REPUBLICANS!" troll has arrived.

She sang a different tune when Renee Richards joined the women’s pro tour. Martina was one of the few players who supported Richards.

Relatedly, do we know transmen’s position on all this?

Why are all Trans Rights activists so insane? A more unlikable and creepy group I've never come across.

Anyway, they won't react well to this.

I think Martina is correct. We put Title 9 in effect so women can have their own sports teams like the men. Now they want to allow unfair competition against those women??? Biden over reached. Amend it accordingly. Do you think he will??

How do trans rights activists explain the fact that there are already so many trans "women" winning women's medals, yet no trans "men" winning men's medals?

Biological men (who "identify" as women) competing against women in sports is about as fair as short adults playing on Little League teams.

She's going against Biden. She must be erased from all social media.

Trannies HATE women. It absolutely pisses me off when I see those he/shes proudly holding up their gold medals next to the poor real women. Women who have trained their entire lives for their sport only to have MEN come along and steal their medals. And of course those poor women can’t say anything because then the tranny mob will harass them 24/7.

If you have a COCK or a Frankenstein pussy you should NOT be allowed to compete against women. It’s time we take a stand. Trannies can start their own leagues. Leave women alone.

[quote] Biden over reached. Amend it accordingly. Do you think he will??

You jest. Martina is correct, of course. However, if Biden went back on this there would be hell to pay. This became part of the trans agenda years ago, and it is written in stone. Everyone has either fallen in line without raising a word of dissent in public, or has objected and been labeled transphobic.

There may be some modification in the future, but that would only be after enough women who are affected raise a big enough stink to demand some revisions. It will not, however, be easy.

In the process, there will be a lot of disaffected teenage girls, like the track stars in that Connecticut high school who lost their chances at college scholarships because a few trans girls used the advantages that their male bodies gave them to sweep all the awards.

R26 Richards herself has said she has mixed feelings about joining the tour. She said had she been 24 instead of 44, no one would’ve been able to beat her.

Richards became a top 20 player at 44 when some of the greatest of all time were playing.! Martina herself said she barely won the matches she played against Richards and she was in peak shape and form at that point.

I agree with Martina -- but -- it truly is ironic that it is she who fights for "cis" women to have their own teams.

Back in the day, as eldergays will attest, it was common knowledge that the "Soviet bloc" athletes were shot full of steroids, which made the female athletes extremely muscular. It was assumed by many that Martina, who played for Czechoslovakia, was one of their number. I know I did.

“I think most people in the country think that’s bizarre, you know, that is just completely bizarre and unfair that people – and you’re going to run the Department of Education – you’ve got no problem with it. That concerns me, and I think it’s this kind of thing is gonna lead to really just the vast majority of America just wondering who are these people that think it’s okay, what planet are you from? I mean to think it’s okay for boys to compete with girls in a track meet, that that somehow would be fair.”

See link.

Not in TENNIS wiseguy, R35.

The stab in the back is that Martina has been raising money, donating, and making appearances for NCLR--which is, the National Center of LESBIAN* Rights--for years.

How the new NCLR people take such a stance against women and girls is appalling.

*Lesbian meaning gay WOMEN

No one cares enough to really fight this battle because the trans movement refuses to engage. There is no debate or discussion, it’s automatic labeling someone bigoted. And right now in sports it’s mainly black girls impacted. Shame how the woke are choosing to nap through this injustice

Hate-filled, divisive QAnonces (trannies hate women, straight men hates gays, women hates us, etc.) should not be classified as human beings like us as they are truly a low life form, even lower than a virus.

In English, please, R40?

R39, there are a few conservative women who are fighting this fight publicly.

But what a stupid issue for the Biden admin to support. The overwhelming majority of people do not think it's fair for male bodies to play women's sports--especially contact sports.

Also r39 I think once people see it on a wider scale (Olympics for example) is when the shit will start hitting the fan. Most people don’t know what self Id is and how easy it would be for a boy/male who had no medical intervention to declare themselves a woman and start competing.

Also most of the people who are supporting this don’t know shit about sports and have zero scientific knowledge about biology.

One of the things I see is that someone of the women in the WNBA could play in the NBA. They can’t, only a handful of women in the league have dunked (I think 7) in the entire LEAGUES HISTORY!

This video is from one tournament for middle school boys and 10 different boys dunked 13-15 year old boys. More boys in that tournament dunked than in WNBAs 20+ year history.

Have you written to the White House, your senators, your representative? Let them know how you feel. Tell them you oppose this, Quote Martina. Tell them they may lose your vote. Tell them you intend to spread the word snd encourage others to speak out.

It does not take very many letters for a Senste or congressional office to tske notice of an issue. I suppose now it's emails. Save a copy or take a screen shot of it. Follow it up with a question about what they intend to do,

Be heard,

If any of you gave a damn about women's sports you would have gotten your panties in a bunch over much more offensive things going on in the NCAA a long time ago. Here are some stats for you:

While women make up 40% of participants in professional sports, they only account for 4% of media coverage. That translates to less than 1% of athletics on major networks, which is devoted to women's sports. Male athletes at Division I-FBS schools receive 2 1/2 times the funding women receive at the same level even though more than 1/2 the population of NCAA schools is female and 44% of athletes are women. The numbers are wildly disproportionate: females receive just 28% of athletic money. 31% recruitment funding, and 42% of the scholarship money.

So, R45, should we not finally care? It's hopefully never too late. I think some current student athletes will have to make some big sacrifices and start drastic action like refusing to compete. It would be nice of some male atudent athletes joined them and maybe professional athletes as well.

I'll believe that when I see it.

Good for her for saying something . . . but what about the rest of us?? What about all the high school and college athletes??

Like others here, I respect her for coming out early, I'm sure it cost her $$. But I would really respect her if she called out this trans sport thing for what it is -- nonsense. What does she have to lose? She's like 70 now.

R41

He's trans and hates women.

R29

Their explanation is that trans athletes try harder.

I totally agree with Martina, but she better watch her step or the trans will hound her for the rest of her life.

But R49, how do they explain why trans "men" aren't beating "cis" men? Do trans "men" just not try as hard as trans "women"?

R37? Since you're omniscient, why did you not surmise I'm a lesbian?

The picture in R35's post is from the mid-1970s AFTER Martina came to the USA and gained 20 pounds in a month. Later, when slimmed down pumped up Martina became the subject or rumors, there was regular drug testing by the tennis unions. She was just as muscular when her career went on its natural downslide. Tennis is not a muscle sport, but as with all of them, GENDER makes a difference - Roger Federer could whip muscular Serena Williams easily.

This looks completely fair!

R10 I went to Notre Dame, and I was indifferent to football before I enroll, but I hated it by the time I left. As big their football culture is from the outside, it's worse inside.

I was a student athlete in both high school and college (track& field) and while it was a positive experience for me, I think schools should focus on education, not athletics. Oh, and outside of the top athletic schools, athletics is a huge money drain on colleges.

R54 I wonder how many girls have been injured since trans "women" started playing with them? Yikes!

I'm actually glad the TRAs aren't budging on the sport issue. They're shooting themselves in the foot by exposing the whole movement for what it really is. Men infiltrating women's locker rooms, prisons, shelters, etc. is by definition happening behind closed doors. Sport has spectators.

R51 - exactly, If there really was no advantage, then trans men would be competing at high levels of competition.

But of course, they are not.

The argument can't be one way and solely for male-to-female trans. That's not being intellectually honest - but of course, that's what the whole trans movement is about anyway.

Navratilova is really difficult for the TRAs to deal with as she has actually proof she's not a "transphobe" so they can't just scream that at her. She also *literally* knows what it's like to play against a trans athlete.

R59 - and she also had Renee Richards as a coach. If anything, Martina was one of the first pioneers in supporting a trans person. Not only was she the first out major athlete but she also hired a trans to work for her.

Could someone help Sabrina solve this conundrum? I just can't understand why men aren't objecting to competing against female athletes 🤔

I don't expect the gay men here to care about women's sports or anything to do with our right to compete, our right to have spaces in which we can feel physically and sexually safe. None of them care to hear from a lesbian about how completely this undermines the whole point of women's sports. I just wonder if Martina regrets trailblazing for the toxicly misogynistic LGBT whatever community given how completely they've thrown her under the bus.

R62, I'm a gay man and I think it's horrifying how quickly real women have been thrown under the bus, all in order to appeal the the woke-patrol.

[quote] "YOU'RE ALL REPUBLICANS!"

Would it really be so bad if anyone was a Republican? You were warned that women's rights would be undermine if the Democrats were elected. As someone who dislikes Trump, I still would've voted for him if I lived in the US to protect women and girls.

R63, you're in the minority. Most of the gay men I know are virulent misogynists who love to silence women. They're the ones leading the alphabet soup and working to erase any ability I have to assert my sex-based rights. Gay men could call off the transtapo if they wanted too, but sadly they don't. Gay men's hatred of women runs far deeper than even the most risible TIM.

Martina's Russian whore wife. Everybody has a Russian whore these days.

I'm a guy, too, and I'm with the ladies on this issue. It seems peculiar that we should even have to discuss this. Dude, you're a dude.

How quickly gay men forgot all lesbians did for them in the '80s. Was it worth it when gay men refuse to even say that girls should not be crushed by men twice their size and forced to by the podium stand as steal gold medals? My sympathy for any gay man who died with AIDS is worn out.

[quote]Telfer decided to join the women’s track and field team at Franklin Pierce University in New Hampshire as a fifth-year senior, pursuing a second major. Telfer had previously left the sport after three years on the men’s team. On the women’s team, Telfer has had a number of victories. He won the NCAA Division II title in the women’s 400-meter hurdles and was celebrated as the first transgender woman to do so.

[quote]Telfer also finished fifth in the 100-meter at the same meet. Despite some losses, Telfer has made a name in the sport, winning titles at the Northeast-10 Championships in the 60-meter, 200-meter, and 60-meter hurdles and received the Most Outstanding Athlete honors. Telfer has also been a key factor in the Franklin Pierce women’s track and field team’s first ranking in the top 25 nationally.

I love Martina for this but the Twitter lynch mobs are going to bay for her blood. She has made enough money that she can retire from the odd commentating job and focus on her family without worrying about the fallout from this.

R69 most people on twitter are backing Martina look at the ACLU twitter page on trans athletes from yesterday they are getting ratioed.

They hate her because she was actually achieving things in the '80s while gay men were sleeping around. But, hey, that's who the LGBT movement is for. The ACLU will only start caring about Martina if she becomes a transman.

Martina's ex partner Pampers Shriver should go trans and demand to play on the men's tour.

The ACLU have become a joke of an organization.

Some gay men care about this issue. I have two nieces who are on their schools track team. It would drive me nuts if some underachieving boy decided to pretend to be a woman just to win over them.

But it’s true this issue doesn’t impact gay men much. Straight men need to start caring more because they’re still the ones with the power.

[quote] Straight men need to start caring more because they’re still the ones with the power.

Take a lot who is in charge of a lot of these organisations. Gay men are as powerful as straight men and fully onboard with the trans agenda to erase us. No straight man hates us like the average drag queen. All of her most vociferous critics are gay men flying a rainbow flag. It's not straight men who are writing hit jobs on her for Penis News.

I am a MTF. More or less, I agree with Martina. Back in the day, well before I transitioned, when I was a 5’10 skinny guard, I used to run with a bunch who included a Lesbian. She hung with the guys (some who went on to play at college) well and was a very good shot. (Not surprisingly, I socialized with a bunch of lesbians, who I adored). In pick up games she was usually a top pick or captain. Maye some day in the future we can just do a unisex sports team? If you are just out to have fun like I was, it doesn’t really matter what gender you are.

I know politically this is a Conservative attempt (like the trolls on here,lol) to keep Trans people marginalized and “weird.” Personally, I would not play girl’s sports and indeed did not care for organized sports in general because of the pressure. Maybe parents can push trans kids into other less stressful activities like band. Or let the trans kid play informally like I did as a kid.

Yes straight men are just staying silent. I don’t understand why all the supposed Gay orgs jumped right on board this anti-woman policy except that they needed a new cause to make money from.

Straight men didn't start this, but they've done more to speak out about it than any of the pathetic queens who work for any civil rights organisation. Straight men actually care about us and once they wake up to what the LGBT movement is really up to it's over for you. That's the one upshot of this. Seeing grown men crushing women might at least provoke a visceral reaction, then it's time for pushback on the hidden invasion of spaces and all of queer theory from drag queen story time to women being fired for misgendering.

[quote]I love Martina for this but the Twitter lynch mobs are going to bay for her blood. She has made enough money that she can retire from the odd commentating job and focus on her family without worrying about the fallout from this.

Martina is fortunate she's rich and well know enough to be able to talk about this, and she'll still be invited by broadcasters to do their commentary at the grand slams.

For other female champions, they rely on sponsorship in retirement and there's concerted campaign by TRAs to attack anyone who speaks out and to go after companies on Twitter. When Rachel McKinnon went for Kelly Holmes, double Olympic champion, McKinnon directed her followers to Specialized Bikes, who Kelly sponsored Kelly, trying to get them to drop her.

Probably R76.

[quote] I don’t understand why all the supposed Gay orgs jumped right on board this anti-woman policy except that they needed a new cause to make money from.

I have a hypothesis.

Many, many of the people I know locally who run LGBTQ organizations are of a generation that was (because of homophobia) extremely damaged. I think that when they get the trans people in their faces complaining and complaining, it is (for them) the path of least resistance to go along with whatever the trans prerogatives are. Many of them are too sympathetic and too soft-hearted to say "no" to these people, and we really don't have powerful women's organizations in this country (though they do in the UK).

I have seen lesbians I know browbeaten into attending "remembrance day for transwomen" when there is no remembrance day for actual women who have also been killed by their domestic partners.

I also think many of the LGBTQ non-profit leaders come from a corporate background (or aspire to one) instead of an activism background and feel that they have to play nice to anyone who publicly demands anything of them--like a transwoman with a large social media audience. I think these people feel like they're in a bind between their organization's PR and their major private donors.

I think we (myself included) need to fund more organizations like the LGB Alliance in the UK and anything like that here.

This is your brain on Biden-Harris! You voted for this, bitches, so suck it up! Trannies rule!

Gay men aren't just standing by. They're actively leading the charge for the trans agenda. Most gay men have deep-seated issues with women. Their behviour isn't incidental or some curious that can be explained away. They hate us as much as any TIM.

The LGB Alliance is a great organisation. They're doing great work to push back against trans fascism here.

[quote]I don’t understand why all the supposed Gay orgs jumped right on board this anti-woman policy except that they needed a new cause to make money from.

Money

In the UK gay equality has largely been achieved - there are very few laws that distinguish between male/female and same sex couples. Employment legislation is in place. Sexual orientation is a protected characteristic alongside sex, race, disability. religion.

Look at organisations like Stonewall - what do they have left to do? Their next campaign is to remove sex as a protected characteristic and replace it with gender, so to do this they need money for campaigns and so on.

Helen Lewis explains it better

[quote]Let’s move to another arena. Some onlookers (including at least two of the original founders) are baffled by the recent decisive turn at the charity Stonewall towards the T rather than the LGB. This can be explained by woke capitalism, too. In 2013, gay marriage was legalised: by a Conservative government, incidentally, highlighting the distinction between social radicalism and economic radicalism***.

[quote]With that, the LGB legislative agenda was nearly exhausted. Most companies were fully on board with hiring gay employees (they don’t cost any more than straight ones) and big brands embraced the rainbow, hiring floats at Pride marches. But if everyone is gay-friendly now, what’s the point of an LGB charity? Stonewall needed an injustice to fight in order to justify its continued existence. Its funding model depends on its “Diversity Champions” programme - where companies pay for a Stonewall kitemark certifying their commitment to LGBT rights. Their diversity champions include BAE Systems, Amazon, Paddy Power and most government departments and universities. (Please do your own “woke bae” joke.) I don’t think I’m being too cynical to suggest that £2,500 is a fair price to be validated as progressive by Britain’s biggest LGBT charity.

[quote]That programme helps explain why big companies - and universities - have been slow to acknowledge that there might be reasonable concerns about the abolition of women’s single-sex spaces. Stonewall believes such spaces should be abolished. And if you disagree with Stonewall, you risk losing your Diversity Champion status. (Amusingly, the LGB Alliance, a group set up to challenge Stonewall, is trying to have it investigated by the Equality And Human Rights Commission for failing to take into account the needs of lesbians in its work. The Equality And Human Rights Commission is . . . a Stonewall diversity champion.)

I voted for Biden and voted for Gary Peters (Mich) who co-sponsored Equality Act but if shit hits the fan, then I’ll vote straight Republican in 2022 - against Gretchen Whitmer. My guess it’ll be John James...😢

[quote]Nick Robinson in an interview with Navratilova on Today Radio 4 today: "Your argument is that there is something called biological sex".

I'm with Martina

[quote]Gay men aren't just standing by. They're actively leading the charge for the trans agenda. Most gay men have deep-seated issues with women. Their behviour isn't incidental or some curious that can be explained away. They hate us as much as any TIM.

I posted this is another thread. This was Russell T Davies on the reaction from gay men when he wrote a drama where a gay man falls in love with a woman.

[quote]Again, though, some of the most vitriolic reaction came from the gay community. Davies tells me that ITV had to call the police over threats from men in Brighton. “I think they were just two men in a bedsit, but they called themselves a campaign.” He laughs, because in 2001 sending death threats to a public figure was a relatively time-consuming and rare occurrence, rather than the work of a few seconds and the click of a button. “Vile letters, so women-hating, the worst I’ve ever seen,” he says. “This is what they said: ‘if a woman came between me and a man, I would turn her inside out through her own slit.’ That’s… wow.”

[quote] I voted for Biden and voted for Gary Peters (Mich) who co-sponsored Equality Act but if shit hits the fan, then I’ll vote straight Republican in 2022 -

Don't lose your head.

Vote for the party that is the most right on issues you care about--then, the day after they win, fight them like hell on the few issues where they diverge from you.

[quote]In 2013, gay marriage was legalised: by a Conservative government, incidentally, highlighting the distinction between social radicalism and economic radicalism***.

We all knew this would happen. That they wouldn't stop once they got marriage and would keep finding ever newer and more perverse sexual victimhoods to exploit. We spoke out and were called bigots. The slippery slope is real. And once we're finished with the TIMs we can get to dealing with gay men.

[quote]Vote for the party that is the most right on issues you care about--then, the day after they win, fight them like hell on the few issues where they diverge from you.

Good plan. I won’t lose my head.

If you read Martina's twitter she is very pro trans. This is one issue where she doesn't believe trans should be in women's sports, but she supports them in everything else.

[quote]Again, though, some of the most vitriolic reaction came from the gay community. Davies tells me that ITV had to call the police over threats from men in Brighton. “I think they were just two men in a bedsit, but they called themselves a campaign.” He laughs, because in 2001 sending death threats to a public figure was a relatively time-consuming and rare occurrence, rather than the work of a few seconds and the click of a button. “Vile letters, so women-hating, the worst I’ve ever seen,” he says. “This is what they said: ‘if a woman came between me and a man, I would turn her inside out through her own slit.’ That’s… wow.”

None of this surprises me. Gay men are just as much of a threat to us as the trans. Honestly, they're vile. AIDS didn't do enough.

I don't know who the person is here who has the beef with gay men. There are always a few crazy people in every group, but our LGB community has come together historically in rather fantastic ways--and hopefully, we will again soon.

As bad as TIMs are I don’t think even they refer to us as “frau fish”. I think I’ll speak on misogyny whenever I see it and gay men are more ridden with it than just about any other group.

I think the comments about Stonewall UK are right. Once equal marriage had been introduced for gay men and women, this organisation suddenly realised it's raison d'être was over. All these highly paid campaigners realised they had nothing to campaign for and so their pay cheques were in jeapardy. The gravy train was about to dry up, so they needed to champion the whole Trans rights issues to perpetuate the cheques and the organisation.

We all knew that was inevitable though, didn’t we?

Yeah, we did R96.

R94, I would encourage that. I'm just saying that DL is not really representative of the gay community--not even your local gay community.

There are some vile people here because there are no gatekeepers on boards: anyone with a computer can comment. So you will get a few blockable bad apples. But does that tally with your local gay community that you know in real life? It certainly doesn't with mine.

I love her and agree with her 100%

It's not fucking fair!

[quote] we really don't have powerful women's organizations in this country (though they do in the UK).

I don't think it's so much that they're powerful; they're just strong and unafraid.

2020 was the year the UK finally hit Peak Trans, partly due to JKR and #ExpelMe. I have a feeling 2021 will be the year the US does the same...

R100, I agree.

R94 I followed that Gender Critical sub on Reddit for a laugh after it was linked here. I unfollowed it after about a week because too much of what I saw was disturbing. There were screenshots of TIMs saying stuff like "Terfs should be changed to a bed and raped and forced to have babies for nice trans people."

We're not THAT bad.

Know that Martina, unlike most other celebrities, ALWAYS stands by what she says. There's never "what I really meant..." or "I was misquoted." For that I've always admired her.

Just. WTF. How can anyone be this stupid?

^ Just to clarify - I meant that John is stupid, not the person he was replying to

If Democrats do nothing about this, even after you’ve given them hell about it—when is it time to vote Republican?

[quote] If Democrats do nothing about this, even after you’ve given them hell about it—when is it time to vote Republican?

Never.

The next step is you take it to the judiciary with civil rights lawyers that specialize in these kinds of cases. This will be the next step that conservative lawyers will take--probably within the next two years. You let the judiciary take care of it. And you can sign petitions, march, etc. when it goes to court. (This happened numerous times under Trump.)

Republicans have fucked up EVERYTHING except this. They should never be trusted to form basic policy again.

For this specific issue, you need to use the proverbial scalpel (take them to court), not the axe.

I’m as left-wing as they come and I voted for Tories at the last election. So did every other left-wing woman I know. Trump was the more progressive candidate who really cared about women and knew what was good for LGB.

A straight Republican ticket at the midterms and 2024 would show Democrats how women can’t be ignored. Trump was my guy. Even the supposed ‘conservatives’ here have bought into the gender insanity. I only voted my local MP because he voted against gay marriage and has spoken out on the T issue effecting women before.

She isn’t wrong. Trans people always argue that they aren’t hurting anybody, then they want to do shit like this. You ARE hurting cisgender women with this crap. I’m a gay man and even I can see that. I wouldn’t be happy if I had a daughter and she had to compete with a trans girl with a scholarship on the line. It’s total bullshit.

"None of this surprises me. Gay men are just as much of a threat to us as the trans. Honestly, they're vile. AIDS didn't do enough."

I've always been critical of trans insanity but maybe I'll be more supportive now that I 'm aware how much TERFs apparently hate gay men as well, and want us dead. The enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that.

She's right. As usual, women are being asked to set aside their own legitimate concerns for those of men pretending to be women.

Irony of ironies.

Same old shit, different day.

I fear you're right, R65. Gay men have used the credibility they (we) have gained over the past decades to run interference for transgenderism. The reason why some posters here are horrified at what they view as the eldergays' "transphobia" is because the younger generations of gay men are speaking with one voice in their support of this.

The batshit lesbian who thinks "AIDS didn't do enough" is as representative of lesbians, women, and TERFs as Erna is representative of gay men. In fact, I suspect "she" isn't a lesbian or TERF, but an MRA posting as one to gin up hatred.

Don't feed the troll.

A few months prior to lockdown, in late 2019, my teenage niece's roller derby league imploded because it was overtaken by transwomen. It made me really sad because it was a fun, tough, physical environment where her little 5'0 self had fun and gained a lot of confidence. It was an environment very welcoming to indie kids and gender non conforming people were very welcome. But the number of injuries and broken limbs and concussions became unsustainable so it went out with a whimper.

Anti-Biden thread from Moscow

No one at any LGBT organization is going to say a word in opposition to any tenets of the trans community. If there is even the hint of dissent from anyone, anywhere, they will be tossed out in a heartbeat. I’ve had leaders privately question their own silence in this regard, knowing full well that if they expressed those sentiments publicly they’d lose their positions. We are currently locked into this situation with no visible — realistic — means of escape.

So only a Russian troll could possibly object to men competing against women in athletic competitions? GTFOH.

Jus sayin

[quote] Anti-Biden thread from Moscow

Go dilate your hole.

This thread is run by Russian trolls. Keep the Gay men against the Trans against the Lesbians against the Trans against the str8 allies. The purpose is clear and this issue is only useful to Right wingers. They are using Martina to divide our community.

[quote]No one at any LGBT organization is going to say a word in opposition to any tenets of the trans community. If there is even the hint of dissent from anyone, anywhere, they will be tossed out in a heartbeat. I’ve had leaders privately question their own silence in this regard, knowing full well that if they expressed those sentiments publicly they’d lose their positions. We are currently locked into this situation with no visible — realistic — means of escape.

It's amazing how quickly it gained support. It took several years of videos of black people being murdered by police officers to make Middle America think seriously about how racial biases affect the everyday lives of African Americans on a pure health and safety level and even now a good third of the population are personally offended by even that.

It's a much bigger taboo to question trans politics than racial politics because conservative white people who don't necessarily want gay children are comfortable with the narrative of them being "born in the wrong body".

Grayed out. ⬜️⚪️

R108 - I’ll try that route.

R5 What is an Ex-gay?

A trans.

r121, every DLer would be defined as a "Right winger" by the kinds of people who forward the Trans ideology.

We should see the number of FF’s too. There’s more than 87 unfortunately.

[quote] Bravo. She's doing the Lord's work.

Says who?

I expect to see an uptick in Anti-Tranny stories since the CIA loosed Navalny on Putin. The Russian intelligence services are so unoriginal and tiresome. Wouldn’t it be more profitable to revive the Q BS with the crazies than a continued harrying of the Rainbow? Like don’t you have better things to do than harrangue a bunch of Queens?

....

It’s a stupid tactic, accusing anyone who sees the insanity of the trans movement of being a Russian bot. Pathetically tiresome.

It’s probably Russia doing that.

It’s strange the Elliot Page threads don’t get greyed out when they’re full of people (rightly) calling out that insanity.

Elliot’s a female cross dresser, right?

[quote] It's a much bigger taboo to question trans politics than racial politics because conservative white people who don't necessarily want gay children are comfortable with the narrative of them being "born in the wrong body".

This is my theory--so I might be wrong.

From what I observe in my own local community (and not the media), the difference is that the trans people have taken the gay organizations hostage. There is something very interesting to me about the notion of access. Hundreds of thousands of black people in my city suffer terribly--from violence, from poor wages, from drugs. No one gives a shit about them. (Or few, I should say.) Now, the STRONG BLACK TRANSWOMEN from the same area, the same poverty, the same background, worm their way into LGBTQ organizations, and suddenly they have access to wealthy, liberal, guilty white people. They claim to be leaders of the gay community, and suddenly they're handed LGBTQ non-profit jobs, gofundme money, etc. when they are less educated, less professional, less qualified than "normal" gay people.

Only the power of laughter can defeat the Tranny.

Only the power of laughter can defeat the Tranny.

The power of laughter compels you!

I don’t think Democrats are going to do anything about this. There’s so much money in this movement—especially with pharmaceutical companies who back transgenderism. I believe the only way to send a message to Democrats and get them to change their tune or re-evaluate their platform is vote them out.

R140 identity politics is strong within the Democratic party, but you have to be some kind of idiot to want to vote out Dems when the alternative is Republicans. Talk about a one-issue voter!

Well I have to be one issue right now. I’m only concerned about feminine gay men and masculine lesbians who are the targets for transition. That makes me a one-issue voter.

r142 then you need therapy.

Maybe that makes both of us.

Anyone who is okay with the way Republicans handle COVID, fuck up the economy, create massive wealth disparities, etc because of the one issue of Ts is crazy.

One issue voter above, don't you care that wage inequality between women and men is a major democratic topic? Don't you care that women and (especially) single mothers get paid less than men for the same job? Democrats actively pursue changing this as one of their goals. Isn't this something you want?

Don't you want to stop the roll back of reproductive rights? Democrat issue.

Don't you want to want the (anti-) Violence Against Women Act back? Democrat issue.

Don't you want rapists in jail and not being patted on the back? Democrat issue.

Don't you want rape kits being tested and not being thrown in a closet somewhere? Democrat issue.

Why don't you pick one of the above as your one issue if you care about women, as you say you do.

So caring about feminine gays and masculine lesbians couldn’t be included in your list R145? Are they off limits or something?

R145 Excellent post.

My bff is a MtF and r140 is so totally wrong. If anything, the Pharmaceutical companies ignore transpeople. Their hormonal treatments were all developed for other populations. The companies do no studies of drugs for Trans people. They believe the transpopulation is so small as to be fiscally inconsequential. Truthfully, the numbers of transpeople proportional to the general population makes this thread superfluous. A girl has about as much change of competing against a Tranny as a martian.

I’m still waiting why feminine gays and masculine lesbians shouldn’t be protected. They are human too, you know.

R147 that’s disingenuous. Yes the number of trans people are small but so are the number of elite athletes. And there have already been many articles posted about women being pushed out of sports by trans athletes. You just don’t care about them

I don't understand the entitlement that trans people should have "hormonal treatments" developed for them. You need a hormonal treatment only if you have a hormonal disorder. Why should drug companies invest in developing drugs that are intended to have cosmetic effects if the market isn't big enough to support it?

[quote] A girl has about as much change of competing against a Tranny as a martian.

Another example of the fantasy-based arguments of the trans community. Did you get this argument from Mr. Strangio from the ACLU?

But at least you acknowledge theere is a difference between girls and a "Tranny" - your word.

Ex-NFL star Marcellus Wiley suggests separate competitions for trans athletes.

He’ll get a lot of grief for this.

It's the only sane, fair idea.

It warms my heart to see Sangha (he/him, of course) being crucified in this thread

R154 amazing comments there. “Ze may have raped and tortured you but if you don’t use their preferred pronouns it’s LITERAL MURDER.” Damn Canada

I can't believe R67 and / or R92 if they are different people, actually believe men competing unfairly against women in sports is equivalent to the suffering caused to people by the HIV crisis of the 1980s.

Both are wrong, but get some perspective.

Oh and by the way no actual lesbian or gay person would say "gay men with AIDS", they'd say HIV. Are you beaming in your right-wing trolling from 1984 R67?

R156 I agree that the damage wrought by HIV/AIDS is far greater than any caused (yet) by the entry of biological males into women's sports, but I would not disagree with R67/R92's use of AIDS. It seems to me that, in both cases, reference was being made to the deaths of gay men in the early phase of the pandemic, when those who had untreated HIV did indeed go on to develop and die of the resultant AIDS. One doesn't die simply because one has HIV - as evidenced by the fact that many gay men still have the virus, but they do not go on to develop AIDS.

Incidentally, I do think that moves like Biden's pose a risk of injuring many women and girls. Whether that will ever achieve the same level as AIDS is not, as you said, entirely relevant: both are wrong.