Dame Barbara Windsor Got Out The Pub: Dead At 83

Most in the US would say "who?" but she was very popular in the UK. Made a Dame even. Eastenders is such a longstanding iconic show there, we here in the US have never supported our soaps to that extent.

My first exposure to Barbara Windsor...and to be paired with Lily Savage and Cilla Black...not a bad introduction.

What a carry on, eh?

Such a cruel illness to beset a national treasure.

Sad. She was iconic.

Do we really need a thread on the death of some local celeb in a bad wig no one outside the UK (and probably no one in the UK under the age of 90) has ever heard of?!

She had long film career in the Carry On films, Chitty Chitang Bang, then EastEnders.

Had an exciting life off screen hanging out with gangland killers, The Kray twins.

Lovely woman and National Treasure.

[quote] Do we really need a thread on the death of some local celeb in a bad wig no one outside the UK (and probably no one in the UK under the age of 90) has ever heard of?!

GET OUT MAH PUB YOU FAT COW!

What disease did she have?

Alzheimer's.

"Sparrows Can't Sing" (1963) is worth tracking down.

She lived a fascinating life and through Carry On and Eastenders she brought joy to millions, around the world. While it feels wrong to say, I am glad she has passed and is no longer suffering from the long and sad decline of that horrible disease.

Ditto, r10.

RIP, Peggy.

Dot is still around somewhere.

She is also great in Ken Russell's The Boy Friend.

I always thought it was a bit strange that she was so popular when you take into account her connection to the Kray twins. But then, they were sort of treated as celebrities in the 60s for some reason.

Given that she had Alzheimer's, it's probably kinder that she's gone.

R12 Dot Cotton will forever be around, lit cig and all.

Supposedly she and Wendy Richard absolutely loathed one another.

R16 June Brown, or Barbara?

Wendy was a bit of a rough customer.

[quote]Supposedly she and Wendy Richard absolutely loathed one another.

EastEnders was originally built around Wendy Richard. She was an original cast member from the first episode and her character's family featured prominently in the show. Her character, Pauline Fowler, had a solid family unit and various storylines. They lived with her cranky mother and it made for good writing. As the years progressed, the actors who played supporting characters in her storylines all left the show (her two oldest children, her mother, her husband and brother and sister-in-law). So the writers had a hard time building storylines around her. They had to tie her to her nephew Ian Beale (also an original cast member) and her work at the laundrette with Dot Cotton (who was also entered in Season 1 but later in the season). So Wendy and the actor who played Ian always had the distinction of being the two original cast members who never left the show.

As the cast changed and a few years went by, they decided to bring in Barbara Windsor who already had a reputation from the Carry On films (Wendy was only known from tv where Barbara had movie credits). Barbara's character was fashioned around the Krays, she had two sons who were gangsters. They began to gain viewer popularity and the writers focused more on them and less on Pauline.

So Wendy did get resentful because others were getting better storylines. Then the producers really fucked her over. Queen Elizabeth expressed interest in touring the EastEnders set. The producers decided Barbara Windsor would escort her around. Wendy pointed out that she was an original cast member and should have that honor. So the producers relented and both women escorted the Queen around.

So the issue was that Wendy Richard felt a certain amount of ownership to the show because she was there from Day 1 and she wasn't happy when her purpose on the show began to fall apart.

Babs was nominated for a Tony award.

[quote]Babs was nominated for a Tony award.

Her tits were nominated for a Tony Award. I won one through talent and hard work.

[quote] Queen Elizabeth expressed interest in touring the EastEnders set.

Queen Elizabeth means the Queen Mother. In any event it was the PR offices which cooked up the tour, if there ever was such a tour. It is doubtful either the Queen or the Queen Mother ever saw the show on tv. When DL fave Princess Michael of Kent toured the Emmerdale set she said that although she had never seen the show, it sounded quite interesting and she may start watching: faint praise indeed; the cast were appalled.

[quote]Queen Elizabeth means the Queen Mother. In any event it was the PR offices which cooked up the tour, if there ever was such a tour. It is doubtful either the Queen or the Queen Mother ever saw the show on tv.

No it was Elizabeth and Philip who toured EastEnders. It was part of the "getting to know my subjects" tour. And as the article demonstrates, Liz was not an Eastenders viewer.

R18, Thanks for the breakdown of the show's history. All the years I watched Eastenders I had no idea Wendy was there from the from day 1.

[quote] if there ever was such a tour.

There was such a tour.

The Fowlers were a legend family. Mark got Aids, Michelle fucked Den, Arthur had an allotment, such drama.

Mark was hot.

Love it: Babs claimed Camilla watched Eastenders; another way to call Camilla common as muck.

r5 have you noticed that this is a worldwide board? When someone isn't interested in a thread they usually just pass by.

r23, the first first appearance of Pauline Fowler.

[quote]Michelle fucked Den

And had a baby by him. Michelle then moved to the United States. Years later, they decide to bring the daughter back. The actress, Scarlet Johnson, tried an American accent for about two weeks and then just lapsed into her normal British actress. But you can't blame her because the writers were giving this supposedly American raised girl a lot of British euphemisms.

I watched it from day one in the US when it was on PBS, and indeed Wendy was on the first episode.

My friend's British grandfather said "Hey, that's the bird from Are You Being Served!"

The actor who played Mark killed himself by jumping off a cliff. Den's dead. Pauline's dead.

It was a bit of a shock when 70s dolly-bird Miss Brahms popped up in a cardy as Pauline.

[quote]The Fowlers were a legend family.

Something else that pissed Wendy Richard off. The producers created a new family called The Slaters and that family monopolized EastEnders from the moment they appeared. And some of them are still on the show today (Kat Slater Moon). The sexy blond guy who played bad boy Jamie Mitchell got so fed up with Slater storylines, he was in an interview and said, "If you're not a Slater, it's see ya later."

Who are these Slaters?

R1 I beg to differ.

Did Mark get AIDS from the homosex?

Babs was a massive fag hag.

Yes R37. Mark and Nick Cotton were fucking but that's not stated clearly in the show.

The producers of EE were very vindictive. When a popular character wanted to leave the show, they would just kill them off. I think Letitia Dean as Sharon was the only one who left and was able to come back without dying. When they finally decided to forgive the actor who played Den Watts, they had to do some twisty writing to bring him back from the dead. They spent a WHOLE episode just trying to explain Den's return from the dead.

Wendy Richard had some health issues (I think cancer bouts). Everytime she needed time off to recuperate, her character Pauline was going to visit her daughter Michelle in Florida. After awhile, a serious viewer had to ask how a laundry attendant had enough money to continue to fly back and forth between London and Florida. Of course, the serious viewer also had to ask how people who were unemployed on the show always had plenty of money to buy drinks in the Queen Vic. How much do you get on the dole in London?

[quote]Did Mark get AIDS from the homosex?

He got it from drugs. But secretly, I think he was turning tricks in Earl's Court, and since nobody in Walford ever actually left Walford, nobody ever found out. When the teenage boy playing Mark originally left the show, the storyline was that Mark ran away. Every so often, Pauline would get a postcard from Mark from some foreign place. After awhile, they brought in a new actor to play grown up Mark and I think he said he had been traveling the world. So how did he pay for it? Probably by hooking up with a rich Arab he met in Earl's Court.

Babs and Pam St Clement became the best of "friends". Hmm, Pam is of the lezz persuasion, isn't she?

She ditched her wig when she made the odd appearance after she left Eastenders

We need this thread if for nothing other then the ultra-DL title! Once it was explained to those of us outside the UK I mean.

We need our Brit queens, they are a treasure. Except the boring cunts who won’t shut up about Meghan I mean!

OP's title seems rather contrived. As a Brit I had to read it more than once to get the drift.

I hated the Slaters. They ate the show.

Here are some of her Carry-On appearances They'd never get away with this today. Babs had a sordid affair with the guy in the yellow robe.

R32, that was the 20-yr old original actor. The actor we most associate with Mark Fowler, Todd Carty, is alive and well.

The greatest Windsor has left the country.

damn Babs wore that same wig style for decades.

I'm in NY and started watching EE in 1990 on WLIW. Den was just leaving and Mitchell brothers were arriving and the return of Mark. We were a year or two behind live episodes in Britain. I was hooked but lost interest after the Beale/Fowler family was dismantled and the Slaters took over. I remember chatting with a British guy at a bar here in the city. I told him I watched EE, thinking it was high class and that he would be impressed. He told me it's considered common trash back in Britain and he walked away.

Years ago one of our PBS stations carried "East Enders" and I was hooked and watched every episode for years. Suddenly, due to low viewership the station dropped the series. Dot Cotton and her cigarette, the other female character , Ethel with her dog named Willy. Those were the days, now with hundreds of stations and nothing worthwhile.

R51 no reasonable person could think EE is high class. Re the Mitchell brothers: both so gay - did Babs tell the screenwriters to think of her mates the Kra-Krays?

[quote]I'm in NY and started watching EE in 1990 on WLIW. Den was just leaving and Mitchell brothers were arriving and the return of Mark. We were a year or two behind live episodes in Britain.

Originally, BBC America was showing them and they were only about a week behind the broadcast in Britain. Then they shifted and felt they couldn't afford it. So PBS (WLIW in NY) took over and they got way behind. By the time I quit watching it, they were years behind Britain. But there was one woman, Debby from Long Island, who formed an EastEnders club and tried to keep it on PBS.

Fun fact: Brad Pitt used to watch it regularly.

R42, I met Pam St Clement at a Stonewall event, and she is a lovely woman. Nothing like Fat Pat, which shows what a good actress she is.

Pam St Clement once said that viewers used to send her earrings and some she wore on the show.

R50 do you remember that catfight between Pauline and Peggy?

r42 I read somewhere Pam St Clement was/is in a long term relationship with Patricia Routledge. I've spent years of my life trying to block out the mental image that provides.

The episodes when Peggy died were really really good, especially ghost Pat.

[quote] I think Letitia Dean as Sharon was the only one who left and was able to come back without dying. When they finally decided to forgive the actor who played Den Watts, they had to do some twisty writing to bring him back from the dead. They spent a WHOLE episode just trying to explain Den's return from the dead.

And then they had the audacity to kill off gorgeous tragic black-eyed fan-favourite Dennis Watts, and never resurrect. Ashamed to say I cried over that death - the only one of three that got me, the other two being Bradley Branning & Steven Beale. The nail in the coffin of Shannis (and to a lesser extent, the permanent departure of glorious Chrissie) was the final bleeding straw for me.

US soaps started doing that way too often too, especially around/after 2000-2005 or so.

Guess the thought is that making a big splash over a death might get more viewers. But then you lose all those characters, and eventually the audience just gets numb to all the SHOCK! of those kinds of stories.

R46 most of the Slaters were and are egregious, except for the classic Big Mo (who sadly rarely appears and doesn't have brilliant zingers and Only Fools-esque schemes like she used to), and original Stacey (pre-motherhood, pre-marriage, pre-mental illness, teenaged Stacey who was cheeky & clever) along with her bad-boy hunky nutcase brother Sean.

The other core members were hideous to watch, especially dreary Lynn, depressing Little Mo, and worst of all drippy fake-lesbian Zoe. It was unreal how Kat and her constant meddling affairs took over the show, given how little she really added beyond getting her claws out and shouting. The Kat/Alfie story was shiteous, and the beginning of the end for EE imo.

As a unit, the Slaters didn't seem to have a point for existing or any particular role on the Square, except for Charlie the cab-driver whose job took him around or away from Walford rather than keeping him in it. They make the Carters look crucial.

They've killed off so many decent characters for the shock value or to get their own back on the actor or the person who created them:

Ronnie & Roxie

Steve Owen

Angie

Mel

Pat and Pauline (both actresses were devastated to be killed off)

Kathy (oops)

Bradley

Bill Roache has been in it from the beginning though.

R63, I thought it was Wendy's decision to leave and never look back. She hated the fact that they had Pauline remarry, and she didn't get along with the actor who played her new husband. They decimated her entire family.

[quote]The other core members were hideous to watch, especially dreary Lynn, depressing Little Mo, and worst of all drippy fake-lesbian Zoe.

You forgot Belinda, the one who married above her station, and shows up for a couple of episodes and then disappears never to be heard from again.

R65 she did want to go but objected to what a bitch they made her character and then killed her off.

Steve Owen and Melanie were a great couple. They had excellent chemistry. I get that the actor who played Steve was already a celebrity and probably got tired of slumming it on EE. But those two were excellent when they were on screen and had good storylines.

As was Dennis Rickman. When he first came to Albert Square he had an excellent scene in the Cafe with Dot Cotton. When they gave him good material, not only was he easy on the eyes, but he could turn in an excellent performance. Then they paired him with Sharon and the whole incest storyline and that was really the beginning of the end for him. But he showed up later on a very special episode of Downton Abbey and raped Mistress Bates.

Nigel Harman's gay in real life.

Sharon looked terrific in those Shannis days

[quote]Nigel Harman's gay in real life

Does his wife know?

Harman is typical of stage actors who go into the soap for a short time for the cash and to boost their reputation.

Sophie Thompson's year long appearance as psychotic Stella remains one of the most bizarre casting decisons.

R70 that was my favourite EE Christmas. So much high-camp DRAMA.

My lesbian heart was hammering for both Letitia & Tracey-Anne, that night.

And I totally forgot about American-sometimes Vicki. God, what was the point of her?

[quote]Sophie Thompson's year long appearance as psychotic Stella remains one of the most bizarre casting decisons.

I think old Soph did that just to spite her mother and sister.

The actor who played Steve Owen was part of the musical group Spandau Ballet, along with his brother. He must have had a few bucks from that. Why was he slumming on EE?

Bubby's in the fridge remains one of the most iconic Eastenders moments ever.

Arthur Fowler rearranging the furniture pales in comparison.

R72 me too, it was great writing. Especially that dimwit Zoe agreeing to let Den impregnate her!

R75 ikr? God, somehow I'd also blanked-out Den's "over my dead body" (looool), the GASLIGHT reference, and Zoe's offscreen eating disorder. There were so many #layers to that Christmas, and the one the following year when poor old Dennis snuffed it.

This is fantastic nostalgia, but I feel a bit badly discussing other actors & characters on the Babs thread. Should we start another?

[quote]that was my favourite EE Christmas. So much high-camp DRAMA.

No Christmas is complete without a slap-fest and a few broken dishes.

Loved her in "The Boy Friend."

Babs hated the storyline where Peggy became AIDS-phobic. She was super gay-friendly and loathed having to play that. She said that the gay community turned on her during that storyline.

[quote]Nigel Harman's gay in real life

Nigel Harman is married to that plain Jane actress who plays the vicar's wife on Agatha Raisin. What a waste.

Hortense...

The Boyfriend

R69 don't be daft. There have barely been any gay male actors ever on EE, and none of the few were high profile long-running iconic characters. The only confirmed and out gay male EE actors that spring to my mind are Paul Nicholls, John Partridge, and Jake Maskall (there may be others I've forgotten or aren't aware of). I believe some of the younger generations may be bisexual in their private lives, like Aaron Sidwell & Jonny Labey, but I'm only inferring that from hints and gaydar. Bisexual popstar Lee Ryan was on the programme for a bit, if he counts.

If you want to see Babs get a plate of fried eggs thrown over her watch Pet Shop Boys Always On My Mind video

R82 you mean to tell me Twiggy could sing? And tap-dance? I shall have to watch this film.

Her gold-lame dress at two minutes into that trailer is exquisite.

[quote] The only confirmed and out gay male EE actors that spring to my mind are Paul Nicholls

Paul Nicholas is out in the same sense that Eric Trump, Hugh Grant, Billy Ocean and Bonnie Bedelia are out.

It isn't to everybody's taste, r85....

Isn't Michael French out?

r85 - Barbara's very funny in it. I can't find a clip of her Nicer in Nice number.

R74 OMFG - so THAT's what that GIF/meme is from!

What was the context of "bubbly's in the fridge?"

R32 Yes there was a documentary about it, years ago.

Did the actor playing Mark have drug issues or was it mental illness?

Mental illness R92.

It was messy because a Sunday newspaper reported on him getting treatment, which made him leave.

R74 the most implausible thing about EE has always been the local women going nuts over men who are the fugliest available both inside and out--Max Branning, the Bros. Mitchell, Dirty Den, Mick Carter etc.

Then you have handsome kind and decent fellas like Martin & Bradley who most of the female characters ignore or treat like dirt, presumably because they're relatively poor or they don't act 'alpha'. It's such horseshit.

[quote]the most implausible thing about EE has always been the local women going nuts over men who are the fugliest available both inside and out

That and the fact that Pat worked as a prostitute. What man would want to pay for that?

As a friendly reminder, to those talking about how they used to watch Eastenders on PBS. If you have Britbox you can watch Coronation Street, Emmerdale, and Eastenders the same day they air in the UK.

We watching on PBS are about eight years behind now, they are in September 2008, so I will never catch up, at least not in this lifetime.

And it gets worse, since EastEnders is on four times a week in England and only twice a week here, so we are falling behind every minute.

Wait till we get to the Christian and Sayed storyline, it's terrific.

But it does take forever, and a spread over several years, but I watched the clips on YouTube, people post them and then they get taken down, but if you're clever and fast, you can catch them too, it's really involving and really emotional and really well done.

R95 Pat was a prostitute is her early years, not as an old woman. Presumably she was hot back then.

Fun fact: in the 80s Pam St Clement was tired of newspapers referring to her as "Fat Pat" and lost a lot of weight. Didn't last long though.

This is the actress playing "Young Pat" in some prequel.

[quote][R74] OMFG - so THAT's what that GIF/meme is from! What was the context of "bubbly's in the fridge?"

Vanessa Gold was dating Max Branning, but was convinced Max was having an affair but didn't know the woman was his ex wife Tanya. (Confusingly Zoe Lucker who played Vanessa is best known for her role as the iconic Tanya Turner in Footballers Wives, a woman who literally fucked her husband to death)

Vanessa had suspicions about Max and somehow made her way to a flat where Max was engaging his shenanigans - she finds a note saying "bubbly in the fridge" and an unmade bed and then finds Tanya there. Vanessa was meant to have OCD - she always wanted everything spotless and was stroking the creases out of the curtains which was why the furniture smashing was so unexpected.

Zoe Lucker was another fixed term hire - an established star coming in for 18 month. Vanessa's daughter was Jewish (there was a circumcision storyline!) but not sure if Vanessa was meant to be.

They really "lucker"d out getting her. Makes no sense how many relatively attractive women lust after gingerballs.

Anyone remember when Tanya Turner did a short stint in HMP Larkhall (Bad Girls)?!

R101 that was nothing compared to Linda Henry’s turn as Yvonne Atkins, the OG Top Dog in Larkhall. If I could become half so cool as Yvonne...

Linda’s Shirl is one of my other favourite Enders matriarchs, though by now all her kids are either dead, gone, or odious in the case of Mick.

Not nearly as odious as Deano.

Yes of course I love Yvonne, especially with Fenner. She had a great chemistry with Karen Betts (Kim from Emmerdale).

Wendy Richard became nutty right wing in later life and was known to express her opinions on the set. This apparently turned a lot of the other actors against her and I suspect Barbara Windsor was one of them. Someone said that Wendy basically turned into Pauline Fowler who had become quite a sour character at the end. I am burning thru the 1980s Eastenders which are on Dailymotion. So much better. Reminds me of me own family back in the day.

Michael Cashman had a prominent and quite controversial role as a gay man in the early years of EastEnders, and he is gay in real life.

I crushed hard on Mark Homer who played bi Tony Hills. He was so adorable. Made no sense that they paired him with that homely Simon actor.

Is this the new Corrie thread?

What was controversial about Cashman R105?

Tony and Simon were the best gay characters on EE. Of course, that's a subjective opinion but I'm entitled to it. Because Mark Homer was so effortlessly handsome. It's also after the first years the period I liked best. Again subjective but because of their story line.

One thing that's going on now is the lack of older characters. These were often "beloved" ones. I'm not sure what that says about our culture.

R108, pretty much any gay representation on television at that time, especially sympathetic ones, would by definition be controversial. It was a different time .

One of a few actors, who went on to be peers of the realm, a la Laurence Olivier, Bernard Miles, Christopher Guest.

Guest was briefly an hereditary peer who was slung out of the House of Lords in 1999.

Lord Cashman of Limehouse, aka Michael Cashman CBE, former MEP was one of the founders of Stonewall. From 1999 to 2014 he was a Labour member of the European Parliament, and then given a peerage. He resigned from the Labour Party in the summer of 2019 in protest at the party being pro Brexit.

He was an openly gay actor playing an openly gay character on tv. I remember watching him being interviewed on Wogan when I was a kid and he was saying how not long after he started in Eastenders he had children knocking on his door and asking for money. When he asked them what was happening, they said there was a man in car (a tabloid photographer) who had paid the kids to ask him for money in the hope they could run a "BENT EASTENDERS STAR GIVES KIDS CASH" headline.

Pam St Clement was also very visibly out and a big campaigner, but she stayed in the show.

As an American, I really didn't know Barbara Windsor, other than having seen her name in the Daily Mail sometimes. But looking at Google Images, she looks hysterical. That hair! And the pictures with her hands covering her boobs, yet she was made a Dame! I would enjoy getting to know more about her.

R114 I think she was made a dame for her charity work.

Her first husband gangster Ron is still alive. He was tried for and acquitted of murder; later he confessed to the murder but couldn't be tried again because of the double jeopardy rule. She kept good company did our Babs. She was a well-loved household name.

The acting on EE even its golden days was atrocious.

She had flings with hot George Best in his prime and a cute young pre-balding Maurice Gibb when he was still married to Lulu. Not too shabby. Her last husband was 25 years younger than her, they looked like they had a good time together.

Being American I don't know much of her either, but judging by the coverage of her passing by the UK media and all the outpouring, she seems like she was a beloved character. Here in the shallow, looks-obsessed US, someone as short and frankly plain as she was probably wouldn't have stood a chance at fame. The closest comparison I can think of is Gilda Radner, who was primarily a comic actress.

[quote][R114] I think she was made a dame for her charity work.

What charity was that? The "Giving Horny Men Something To Wank Over" charity?

R119 Barbara Windsor has supported the following charities listed on this site:

Age Concern Age UK Amy Winehouse Foundation Caritas Anchor House Fable Great Ormond Street Hospital Help The Aged Make-A-Wish Foundation Operation Smile Operation Smile UK Royal Osteoporosis Society Variety - The Children's Charity WellChild

...get out of my bar, before I kick you in the cunt bone.

She even played Broadway with Oh What A Lovely War.

Lovely woman.

She had five abortions but kept that gamine, ingénue image.

Pauline! You old cunt, you look 100 if a day!

R100 - thank you! I figured it was a cheating deal but thanks for filling in the blanks

Always so well dressed.

Ain't nothing like a dame!

When pinning the gong to the ample breast of the recipient, how does the Queen avoid perforating the white meat by mistake?

For gongs, a flunkie pins a special eye on the recipient's chest, prior to them meeting The Queen.

Once Infront of The Queen, she then just hooks on the award onto the eye. They chat, then the recipient is moved on to another room, where it's unhooked and boxed.

I just know the Queen is going to accidentally gore the recipient when knighting him at some point. She's elderly you know.

You can see the hook and eye arrangement on Naomie Harris's OBE.

R129 Didn't that ruin Naomie Harris's dress?

R123 She's had a fair bit of practice, so I think recipients are alright. Patrick Stewart looks thrilled!

R130 Hard to say, as she had her coat on outside.

All these celebrities get loaned dresses to wear by the couturier: what if they hand it back with a hole or holes in it?!?

HM also has a way of shaking someone's hand and pushing them back gently backwards to get rid of them

Dame Diana and now Dame Babs?

[quote] HM also has a way of shaking someone's hand and pushing them back gently backwards to get rid of them

Thatch used to do something similar with reception lineups but it wasn't pushing back it was swinging them to the other side of her. Typically you'd be in line to her left, when your turn came she'd grasp you by the right hand and swing you to her right and on your way.

Exactly how old are the current EASTENDERS being shown in the US? Barbara was still on the series and her character was just about to marry some man. Seeing as she was diagnosed with Alzheimers in 2014, the episodes must be old.

EASTENDERS seems to be so far behind in the US. When it first started airing over 30+ years ago, the local PBS stations were showing two episodes a night for about a year, that was done to catch up with the then current episodes being aired in the UK, Then, the series was aired only one night a week with two back to back episodes, which has been the schedule for many years.

Years ago, BBCAmerica aired EASTENDERS for about a year,. then abruptly cancelled it. There was no explanation why. Those episodes were current.

The PBS channel EASTENDERS was originally aired on is now ION, the series has been on the local NYC PBS channel, 21, for many years.

RIP Barbara! How many performers from EASTENDERS have died? I remember Wendy Richard died about 2009-2010, she was only 65.

I used to watch EastEnders on Channel 21, but they kept screwing up. They would cancel it for a 3 week fundraiser and the momentum of the show would be lost in that period. They would get on and BEG and threaten saying how expensive it was to buy and they needed money or else it would go away. Then they would say it was Channel 21's most popular show. This threat went on for YEARS. And I didn't understand why it was so expensive because they were already a good 5-6 years behind the UK. They did try to do EE fundraisers. In NYC, they rented a theater to show "Dot's Story" and tried to make a big party out of it. I remember them really pushing it saying, "You'll meet other EastEnder fans at this event!" But 21 kept screwing up because other markets didn't take that 3 week pause and friends that I had in the DC market were ahead and they would email me and say, "You're not going to believe who dies next." And I'd have to wait three weeks to find out.

R137 what old man was it? Archie?

PBS got a sweet deal for EE for the first 18 months, I think, but then the BBC really jacked the price up.

Bless Betty Windsor. She's really outlived nearly all of us, hasn't she?

Phil Mitchell had a pretty decent ass! Grant was a bit flat.

This was the gayest thing you would ever see on EastEnders!

The Mitchell brothers were kinda hot back in the day.

She deserved a BAFTA for her last week on Eastenders several years ago where

SPOILER

SPOILER

she makes her peace and then ends it all.

She was sublime.

Yes, it was so well done R143.

[quote][R137] what old man was it? Archie?

Yes, was the character's name. He had a nice large house in the suburbs. I would assume that's how Barbara was written out of the show, she marries this man and moves away to be with him?

Why is Archie last name the same as Peggy's? Her two sons last name is Mitchell. I don't really know Archie's backstory. Don't tell me he was Peggy's husband's brother?! Sounds like a typical soap theme.

Archie BF has a blond daughter who wasn't speaking to him. The other daughter is 'currently' pregnant.

What happened to Peggy's daughter? In real life, the actress Daniella Westbrook, think that was her name, was a coke fiend and her nose collapsed! How was she written out of the series.

It made me cry just looking at it now.

"Archie, the BF, has a blond daughter..."

Did she still have enormous breasts? Wondering if she will be cremated?

Don't know yet R148.

I would suspect that her memorial service will take place at The Actors Church or, due to Covid regulations, somewhere larger like St Paul's.

Sid James was my grandad's cousin. Babs had a fling with him.

Archie Mitchell was Peggy Mitchell's brother-in-law, i.e., the brother of her late husband.

The episodes showing in New York now are from September 2008.

Spoiler: Peggy marries Archie but the marriage lasts less than a day. So, no, she doesn't move to the country with him lol.

Sid was fucking Babs for at least 10 years until he died from the exertion. Not really a fling. I saw Sid on stage in 1974 in Carry On London! at the Victoria Palace Theatre; he mentioned the new VAT with a dirty laugh. I was 10yo; it was not a show for children but I insisted and I am glad I saw him on stage.

Barbara had TWO biopics made about her. "Cor, Blimey" and "Babs". Samantha Spiro played her in both and did an excellent imitation of her.

I remember an interview with Wendy Richard, who had gone through breast cancer, if she thought Babs had given an accurate portrayal on EE of someone with breath cancer. Wendy gave a terse response, something to the effect of "hmmm, well you'd have to ask her." It was very snarky and almost laced with anger.

Anyone who got to sleep with George Best had a lucky life - what a gorgeous man.

R156 the soccer player?

R157 - that's the guy!

she got to hit that? yum

Best is black Irish. They are hot.

And Black Irish are seldom, if ever, struck with the Irish curse.

Josh Connor = Black Irish with a Jewish maternal grandmother. Double yummers!

Spoiler: Archie turns out to be one of the show's foulest villains!

[quote]Spoiler: Archie turns out to be one of the show's foulest villains!

Who'd have thought that Mick Shipman would have been such a wrong'un. Poor Pam must have been distraught.

[quote]Who'd have thought that Mick Shipman would have been such a wrong'un. Poor Pam must have been distraught.

There's one episode, I think it's a Christmas episode, where they are all fooling around and doing impressions of EastEnders. I forgot which character they are mimicking. Was it Frank Butcher?

It was indeed Mike Reid.

[quote]Pat was a prostitute is her early years, not as an old woman. Presumably she was hot back then.

Now, I'm not one to judge, but it's not natural for a fallen woman to ever return to a normal life. Once you're in the life, you're in it for good.

Eastenders fans who haven't seen Jane Horrocks possessed by the spirit of Eastenders is in for a treat.

"Sanjay, another brick's come through the window!"

[quote] Now, I'm not one to judge, but it's not natural for a fallen woman to ever return to a normal life. Once you're in the life, you're in it for good. —Dot Cotton, drinking a small sweet sherry

Don't forget Dot smokes (Embassy) with her sherry.

[quote]Eastenders fans who haven't seen Jane Horrocks possessed by the spirit of Eastenders is in for a treat.

She does fairly well until she gets to Hyacinth Bucket, which she doesn't do well. And the "murder a digestive biscuit" is poor writing. Hyacinth would never say "murder" in relation to food and Onslow, who usually says it, would never say "digestive biscuit". He always says, "Murder a bacon sarnie."

That Dot Cotton actress is 93.

So young, still not a dame.

We watched Sparrows Can't Sing last night, in tribute - it's available on Amazon Prime Video (at least in the UK).

Windsor's performance is really lovely and complex, and she was clearly a far greater actresses than her Carry On and soap opera reputation would have lead one to believe. Having also been filmed on location in the East End, it's a remarkable documentation of 1960s London that's rarely captured on film. But it's structurally very strange, and the direction feels a little theatrical and at odds with the social realism of everything else. It's perhaps not surprising that Joan Littlewood didn't direct another film.

[quote]She does fairly well until she gets to Hyacinth Bucket, which she doesn't do well. And the "murder a digestive biscuit" is poor writing. Hyacinth would never say "murder" in relation to food and Onslow, who usually says it, would never say "digestive biscuit". He always says, "Murder a bacon sarnie."

You're right - Kitty would murder a nice digestive, especially after she's walked the Pennine Way in slingbacks in an effort to publicise mental health, but not Hyacinth.

This is a lovely piece. Adore how Babs was such a fag hag. Her obvious adoration of Kenneth Williams is beautiful.

Started a thread for the Eastenders fans. As, I presume, you are far too povo to start your own.

She may have shagged George Best but she also did Sid James for a decade - yuck.

George was a drunk, alas. Sid was a charmer.

Sid was another drunk. Maybe flaccid and incapable was her type.

I loved her in the Carry On films. I've been rewatching them in her honor. Best: Carry On Camping and Carry On Matron.

My fave is Carry On Up the Khyber with Sir Sidney Ruff-Diamond but I don't think Babs was in that one.

R175, we don't need a new EastEnders thread, this one will do very nicely thank you

[quote]Sid was another drunk. Maybe flaccid and incapable was her type.

I know that “Cor, Blimey” was fiction based on fact, but a scene in that movie all but states that Sid enjoyed giving cunilingus. And the movie had Windsor’s approval (Barbara, not Elizabeth.)

Kenneth Williams talked about her in his famous diaries -He seems to have genuinely liked her, saying she was a sweet person.

My grandma loved her romance novels.

“Cor, Blimey” is a colloquial English euphemism for the exclamation, "God, blind me." Just like they say "Spend a penny" for "taking a shit."

The only thing you can say about Phil Mitchell is that it's a miracle no one shot him sooner!

The Mitchell boys both belonged on MenATplay. Perhaps there were there, I don't know because they are gross to me.

R185 spend a penny is take a pee

EE was pretty good last year. This year it's become boring af.

Today of course Barbara Windsor wouldn't get a look in as a "sexy babe", short legs, almost no neck, but big knockers....

However in her prime back in the day BW could hold her own with best of them.

Great actress who had a wonderful life. she was loved and will be missed.

*RIP*

Forgot video clip...

R5

Oh piss off you sad old twat.....

EastEnders is shown worldwide including on many PBS stations in USA, so am quite sure many do know who Dame Barbara Windsor from her being Peggy Mitchell.

Last night ITV repeated Barbara Windsor's interview as part of the P*e*s M*r*a* Life Stories show.

The interview was from 2010, and she really sparked. She came across as honest, authentic and likeable.

Considering the presence of He Who Must Not Be Named, the interview was actually watchable.

“Spend a Penny” derives from when the doors on public toilet cubicles were coin operated. Now it’s a euphemism for going to the toilet.

When you spent a penny you could piss and shit.

Here I am broken-hearted, spent a penny and only farted!

Nick Berry was so gorgeous. He was one of my first crushes as a gayling.

Nick Berry was beautiful.

Adam Woodyatt has to be the luckiest actor on TV anywhere. To be that homely and marginally talented and be able to survive 35 years through multiple producers and writers is some feat.

[quote]Adam Woodyatt has to be the luckiest actor on TV anywhere. To be that homely and marginally talented and be able to survive 35 years through multiple producers and writers is some feat.

I think he adopted the "grin and collect the paycheck" model with EastEnders. Remember he started on the show at 17. And they put him through some of the most ridiculous storylines ever.

I think he was untouchable for two reasons:

1. His character's relationship to Wendy Richard's character. The show, in part, was built around Wendy. She was the main matriarch when the show started. The actors surrounding her jumped ship fairly quickly (son, daughter, mother, wife, brother, sister-in-law) and they had to have an anchor for her. Woodyatt played her nephew and so became the anchor that kept the original purpose of Wendy being on the show.

2. Because he was on the show from the first episode, so the more years that went by, it would have been a PR disaster to let him go. Just like Wendy Richard. At the end, she may have been a miserable scrunt, but they wouldn't let her go because she was there from Day 1 and the PR damage would have been huge.

Woodyatt and the actress who plays his mother are the only two characters remaining from episode one, and with the exception of Brown (who plays Dot Cotton) are the only ones left from season one. He's kept on for that if nothing else. Dot in principle could return from Ireland, but has given every indication she's not interested.

Sharon was in Season One as well. My bad.

R201 excuse me?

Kathy and Sharon left the show and came back. Dot started later in Season 1. Pauline and Ian are the only two that started with the show from Day 1 and never left. That's the important point, neither of them actually turned in their resignation (Wendy left a few times for health reasons, but she was never considered terminated from the show).

Sid James was a gambling man.

Ian was a cute twink in the first few years. There's a scene in 1987, I guess he's 18, in his pajamas and he's quite sexy. I'm binging on the classic EEs on Daily Motion and am up to 1987 , that's how I know this. He's hideous now but has lost some weight lately which is good as he has diabetes.

Sharon had a great campy exit in 1995, leaving Grant after getting him to propose to her in The Vic.

She returned 6 years later as the new pub owner and stayed til 2006.

Her current stint started in 2012.

They've said before they'd always keep the door open for her.

[quote]They've said before they'd always keep the door open for her.

God know why when they've killed everyone else off.

There's always two seats available for Sharon at the Vic.

Ian is presented as being in love with Sharon in Season One so his statement that he's only loved her makes sense. So she's landlady of the Vic again. Hilarious!

One of the Drag acts in Brighton in the 2000s did a brilliant Sharon Watts impersonation.

Hottest men on EE...

Joey Banning (David Witts)

Marc Bannerman (Gianni DiMarco )

I genuinely had no idea until I read some old threads on here after doing a Barbara Windsor datalounge search on google that there was so much enmity and hostility between Barbara and Wendy Richard .Sure I thought there was a little bit of green eye jealousy but what I read sounded much more serious .

If you believe the two ladies; Barbara Windsor and Wendy Richards were best mates.

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My name is Kitty... I could have married, have given gallons of blood, and can't stomach whelks; so that's me for you!

If Patrica Routledge had done nothing else but Kitty she'd still be famous....

Both Wendy Richards and Barbara Windsor were sort of cut from same cloth really. Both started out as sexpots on television sitcoms. Later their careers to another turn with each being cast as total opposite sort of women on EastEnders.

It says much about British television that both actresses were given those chances to do something other than jiggle and be ogled. In USA they'd likely been pigeon holed into such roles until they became too old.

Interesting thing about Are You Being Served is that show was supposed to be a vehicle for Trevor Bannister (Mr. Lucas). By the time AYBS spin off (Grace and Favour) was being filmed Wendy Richards was already on EastEnders, so she managed to do both which didn't last long because G&F only ran two seasons.

I actually think Kathy Beale is deadweight. She has the hoarse butch voice and does nothing but sound outraged by Ian.

Fortunately Babs didn't end up in Last of the Summer Wine.

In the P*e*s M*r*a* interview Babs talked about how no one wanted to hire her in her early 50s.

There was a campaign on Channel 4's The Big Breakfast to cheer Eastenders up and someone suggested putting Barbara Windsor in the Queen Vic. She was invited in for scenes with Ross Kemp and Steve McFadden to see if the chemistry was right and invited to join the cast.

What's a P*e*s M*r*a*?

He's a tv presenter who must never be named. His first name rhymes with Fears

R220's clip shows a ginge whose name is Chris "£2m" Evans I believe. Pears is not in it is she?

[post redacted because independent.co.uk thinks that links to their ridiculous rag are a bad thing. Somebody might want to tell them how the internet works. Or not. We don't really care. They do suck though. Our advice is that you should not click on the link and whatever you do, don't read their truly terrible articles.]

Kathy and her bf also appeared in a very rude video defending their actions.

About 20 years ago I was in madame Tussauds in London when I noticed a figure of a petite woman, and I thought to myself I know her, where do I know her from, I thought it was one of my neighbors, when I finally realized it was Peggy Mitchell from EastEnders. I was tickled pink. In a surreal sort of way...

R219

Last of the Summer Wine already had Jean Fergusson (Marina) as a bit of old crumpet, they didn't need Barbara Windsor adding to the mix.

R227 Also, their soap opera star quota was filled by Jean Alexander(Corrie's Hilda Ogden) as Auntie Wainwright.

Jean Fergusson is a poor man's Barbara Windsor.

Has anyone told the queen her cousin died?

Surely she saw the funeral cortege and heard the cannons at Windsor as Dame Babs was lowered into the crypt in St. George's Chapel.

Pat was a cow.

[quote]Pat was a cow.

COW PAT LOL

Wendy Richard had a very unhappy life with violent boyfriends. She was known to have needed extensive makeup on Are You Being Served to cover the bruises, and several cast members tried to support her. I can forgive her for being a bitch, but not a Tory.

[quote]Jean Fergusson is a poor man's Barbara Windsor.

Actually not!

Barbara Windsor's character was a giggly flirt. Her purpose in the Carry On movies was to titilate.

Jean Fergusson's character was more of a lonely girl a bit past her prime. Her purpose in Summer Wine was to create conflict so Howard's battleaxe wife would have a reason to be suspicious.

Both characters are extremely funny, but Windsor's character was very forthright where Fergusson's was more subtle.

Who can forget Peggy's heartbreaking exit from Eastenders after The Queen Vic was burnt down? She saw it as her means to respectability and it was gone!

R234

Since much of the gang (men and women) on LOTSW seemed all to have grown up together (at least core original ensemble), always felt that Marina always was the local bike, this going back years while they all were young. This could explain why she never married (or did she?), and also why Eddie, Pearl, Nora, and Ivy treat Marina as if she's no better than she should be.

The longest running sitcom in the world.

R236 The one thing I loved about Marina is that while she settled for messing around with Howard it was clear she'd drop him in a heartbeat if Cleggy would've said the word.

Who's next? Bill Treacher? He turns 91 next year. He looked 70 in 1985.

r239 Or maybe Elizabeth Kelly aged 99 who played Pauline Fowlers elderly aunt Nellie or even dare I say it 93 year old June Brown herself AKA Dot Cotton/Branning.

Though best known to Americans as "Gran" from Absolutely Fabulous, June Whitfield had a long and varied acting career. This included starting out as also in bit of fluff roles. She was in "Carry on Abroad" with Barbara Windsor for a start.

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Joan Sims was also in several of the Carry On movies. She would later go in to play Madge, Lionel’s step mother, on Judi Dench’s show “As Time Goes By”.

Babs Windsor wasn’t the only one with a sordid private life.

Hattie Jacques played the matron in several Carry On films. She was married to actor John Le Mesurier yet had a five year affair with another man causing her marriage to end.

I always get Joan Sims mixed up with Sylvia Sims who was in The Queen.

Joan Sims was a very attractive (and thin) in her younger days. Even as she began to put on weight at first she was just more "built to last" sort. No small number of British men like their lasses "big" or at least curvy.....

With that bit of weight usually comes a bit of buxom, which again many men fancy. Barbara Windsor often resorted to push up bras and padding to expand her bosom. Joan Sims didn't need a bit of that; she had more than enough to work with naturally. This went for hips and derriere as well, BW had to work on jiggling, women built like Joan Sims again it just happened because they were so firm, so round, so fully packed.

Joan Sims in a Morrissey video!

[quote]I always get Joan Sims mixed up with Sylvia Sims who was in The Queen.

Joan Sims has a chin dimple.

I think Joan always knew she would be working in comedy, so she probably didn't mind putting on extra weight because it got her the character roles she desired (in the same pattern as Shelley Winters). By the time the Carry On films came around, she had enough weight to be considered for the British wife roles and didn't have to worry about the body maintenance that Barbara Windsor had to worry about. She was the happy medium between Barbara Windsor and Hattie Jacques, didn't have to slave over body maintenance like Windsor, but wasn't really considered fat like Jacques.

Shelley Winters though not exactly thin by then was still considered a hot enough bird to be a man trap in film "Alfie".

Alfie though he was doing Ruby a favor by giving her some, her being a big and older woman. He was that gobsmacked when Ruby pulled a younger boy....

Hattie Jacques, now there's a woman who was built to last....

Just like the Major and Hyacinth Bucket some men prefer big lasses.

Thing about Hattie Jacques was she wasn't an unattractive woman, just big. But she did wear her weight well, which considering fashion options for her day wasn't easy.

I think at one point Hattie Jacques was told if she didn't shed some of the weight, they wouldn't cast her in the next Carry On picture.

Sid James: So you're Belle?

Joan Sims: My intimate friends call me Ding Dong

They don't write the like that any more!

God Bless them all; Hattie Jacques, Barbara Windsor, Wendy Richards, Jean Fergusson, June Whitfield.. .the lot of em. Their generation likely was the last of British actresses who could carve out long and good careers even if only mostly character roles. Today and for sometime now they'd have been written off once they got too old, fat or whatever.

For Americans John Le Mesurier mentioned in R244 is likely best known for playing Father Mowbray in original television series Brideshead Revisited.

Why do they keep Kathy around? She is so irrelevant. Glllian Taylforth must cost a pretty penny.

R257 I guess it is because she is another original cast member. Eastenders hasn't been as good at keeping major cast members for long periods of time like it older more established rival Coronation Street.

Oy! This is my thread, sling yer ‘ook

r258 They also wrongly killed off or axed many characters sometimes out of bad feeling or vindictiveness towards the actor or actress by the shows bosses.

I think killing off Steven Beale, Both Ronnie and Roxy Mitchell, Lucy Beale, Pat Butcher ,Pete Beale senior and others were big mistakes.

The actor who played Mark wasn't the only one who had issues.

Probably one of the weirdest actors was Dean Gaffney who played Robbie Jackson. He was on for several years, then the producers decided to let him go. He kept begging to come back, so every so often they would bring him back for just a few episodes. They finally terminated him completely in 2019 when there were rumors that he tried to solicit inappropriate pictures from a stranger.

And then there was Daniella Westbrook, the first actress who played Peggy's daughter, Sam. She was sniffing so much coke, she ruined her nose and they couldn't film her face anymore. Her late night partying finally convinced the producers to let her go. Awhile later, they brought in another actress to play her. I think years later, they brought the original actress back.

Lou Beale was an cunty old dragon.

She was a bloody entertaining battleaxe to watch onscreen though! r262

[quote]Lou Beale was an cunty old dragon.

Poor Anna Wing. It was the highpoint of her career and she couldn't stand playing the role.

Me gran was a lot like Lou Beale. It was a real type in the working class back then.

Sunday 20 December 2020, that's when NYT got around to printing Dame Barbara Windsor's obituary.

Obit dated 12/18/20

Peggy produced two thugs and a slapper. She must've been so proud.

Babs had more children pulled out of her than a Sherri Shepherd.

So was the EastEnders Christmas episode as depressing as ever?

R267

Yes dear, but 18 December was a Friday, so while the digital obituary was published that day print did not follow until Sunday 20 December.

Anyone who is anyone has their obituary printed in Sunday New York Times.

I was a Crossroads Queen - she's merely a shadow in comparison to Noele Gordon/Meg.

N.B. pic in the background - says it all really.

Then they fired her...and drover her to the wall.

a wonderful mother

I lover her in blue.

Did you see Noele Gordon in GYPSY?

No, I wish I had.

[quote]and drover her to the wall.

[quote]I lover her in blue.

OMG what is wrong with my typing today?

oh, well...excuse for another pic

R270 it wasn't that depressing this year, it had Sharon on fine form as a campy murderess!

Is Coronation Street a better show than EE? Was binging on some of the early B&W episodes on YT, and it was really interesting and atmospheric. Is it still good? I'm an American.

R280 I'm an American and I prefer Corrie. It is a better balanced show. Every time I watch EE it just seems depressing.

R280 Coronation St has more balance or humour and drama plus, IMO, more realistic characters.

Eastenders tends to go OTT at times and the writing can be very patchy.

Somewhere in the early 2000s British soaps seemed to lose that gritty realism that set them apart and go for more showy drama (serial killers, explosions, stunts, big revenge plots, guns etc). Also doesn't help they are on far too much every week.

[Quote] The two worst cunts in British theatre are Patricia Hodge (rude, unpleasant, cold) and Barbara Windsor.

[Quote] Both the stories about Barbara Windsor are before her time in Eastenders, and from when she was doing panto.

[Quote] The first story was from 2 people who worked in the theatre. She would swear in front of all the kids, humiliate the stage hands and hated the rest of the cast. She didn't like that she only had one song so had them take a song from the leading lady to give to her. There was also a story about how she was about to go on stage one night, and before she left her dressing room, pulled out her tampon and gave it to her dresser. She'd wash her fanny in the tiny sink in the dressing room in front of anyone who was there - no graces.

[Quote] And the other story was from someone who had the misfortune to spend Christmas day with her when she was on another panto. Dinner was at a house Babs was sharing with some of the cast and crew. She was slumped at the table, completely hungover, in her bra and knickers, no wig, no make up, and chain smoked her way through the meal. When she went to the toilet half way through the main course (she told everyone she'd had the shits really bad) everyone else decided to go to the pub instead of having dessert. They didn't need to as she went back to bed. Horrible woman.

I always thought Jacki Piper and Imogen Hassall were the best Carry On crumpet.