Theatre Gossip #407: The "I Fucked Keith Baxter and All I Got Was the Maids Quarters at the Dakota" Edition

I don't get the quote!

It sounds like one of those long-named 1970s shows that sounded original in concept but was terrible in execution.

Well, it was either that or Irene, since both were the main topics of the 2nd half of the last thread.

Watched the Kaye Ballard doc. Rex Reed kept on about how she should have been a bigger star. Really? She was a second banana if there ever was one. Talented yes, but a second banana.

Rex Reed, Irene... Let's talk about something more au courant... like why Karen Black was fired from the original production of A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum

You made me laugh, R5. That really is au courant on these Theatre Gossip threads. (That's with and 'R E"!!!)

The OP's quote must be from " Follies."

I assume the quote refers to Rex Reed's apartment in The Dakota which had formerly been the maid's quarters of a larger apartment. I've been in an apartment at The Dakota like that, not Reed's but another one. So disappointing.

Rex is looking more and more like Swifty Lazar day by day.

Well, I guess I now know how much people pay attention to the previous thread. If tasked with starting a new one in the future I won't bother to link it to anything we just discussed,

[quote]Theatre Gossip #407: The FOLLIES Edition

That would be redundant. Every thread turns into a Follies thread at some point.

I recall reading that Keith Baxter used to greet backstage visitors to his dressing room at "Sleuth" while he was in the nude. Did he do this for other shows as well?

I’m assuming the intent was to say “I got fucked by Keith Baxter” since he is a top

The magazine sold at Lincoln Center's "My Fair Lady" production had a story that Julie Andrews was reading a magazine while nude in her dressing room during the original production when someone from the production team came in, and she wasn't disturbed in the least.

Who else was known for greeting people in the nude backstage, at least more regularly?

I didn't even know who Keith Baxter was, let alone what position he preferred. I just found the stories from the last thread amusing.

He was very good-looking, and nudity would have only enhanced his reputation.

Interesting that Earl Wilson, Jr. wrote the score for the nudie musical "Let My People Come" while his father, gossip columnist Earl Wilson, used to regularly ask celebs when he interviewed them if they slept in the nude. Mr. Wilson was actually a very congenial, non-catty gossip writer, unlike someone like Rona Barrett.

I’m the subject of this title so I feel quite honored. Thanks, OP.

However for clarification purposes Keith Baxter didn’t fuck me, alas, he just dumped my sorry ass in Earls Court Road. And Rex Reed’s apartment at the Dakota was in no way small enough to be confused with the servants quarters. I did live in a postage stamp sized apartment in a brownstone on W 71st between Columbus/CPW and it was the servants quarters in the early 1900s. And yeah, I did feel a “presence” from time to time. I may have lay there at night a few times hoping to be ravished by a spectral American version of Thomas Barrow but it wasn’t meant to be.

Nicole Kidman's voice is a little wispy, but she doesn't embarrass herself with the singing. The dancing, however, makes Jan Maxwell in Follies look like Chita Rivera. Is that why this number is edited in such an odd way?

Oh, sorry to rain on your parade, R18, but Rex Reed is really the subject, since he lives in the Dakota.

However- your posts from last thread absolutely contributed to the interest of the topic! It probably would have died out much sooner without them. And now I'm going to look up Keith Baxter and get a gander at this specimen of long ago manhood.

Patti and ALW talking but not together

If some of you haven’t seen it, 42nd St.

Peggy Lee, Carmen McCrea and Mel Tormé should be guest stars in this thread, since they were the headliners of the CDs Rex Reed was attempting to shoplift from Tower Records when he was arrested.

Betty Lynn as Dolly

[QUOTE] I’m assuming the intent was to say “I got fucked by Keith Baxter” since he is a top

I hate this stupid shit. I say I fucked this or that guy all the time and my friend is always like, “You’re a bottom; you got fucked BY him.” No, cunt. Me “fucking” someone automatically means that I’m bottoming. I’m not goin to say, “I got fucked by that person.”

It’s just another form of bottom-shaming.

McRae, that is

R25 It really isn't.

A bit more of Betty Lynn

So should #408 be- "I got fucked by Tower Records Security and all I got were these lousy Peggy Lee CDs?"

Betty was so much better Norma than Glenn. Getting ovations in the middle of the song

Let’s be honest, isn’t everyone better than Glenn always?

Well made retrospective of Elaine’s career when she was starring in Sunset in London

Can anyone explain why Rex Reed went shoplifting at Tower Records?

New All that Jazz supercut, including dl favorite Lenora Nemetz

R33 weren't you paying attention? He wanted CDs of Peggy Lee.

Rex could easily have afforded the CDs. He just wanted attention.

R22, I get a message saying the owner of the video has to have given me access. Did I miss something?

R37 I suppose it has been taken off already. Full shows are there just for a day or two

I used to work at Tower Records. Everyone shoplifted.

[quote]Rex Reed kept on about how she should have been a bigger star.

Kaye was a big star. It's the screens that got smaller. She was a theater animal. She was way too broad in her acting for tv. If you watch The Mothers-in-Law, you can see Eve Arden thinking, "Kaye, are you playing to an audience on Jupiter?" Our Kaye played to the top balcony.

When Roger C. Carmel was playing Kaye's husband on the first season of The Mothers-in-Law, it worked better because she had someone else to bounce that manic energy and over the top performance off of who matched her chew for chew. It was the hot blooded Italian couple against the reserved WASPS. When Richard Deacon took over in Season 2, Kaye was all on her own and seemed like she was ready for a straitjacket.

R37 Here ya go, pumpkin.

Did yall see this year's Broadway Cares Xmas ornament? It's supposed to be Glenn as Norma, but it looks like a thumb, LOL.

I'd love to own figures/ornaments of Bway characters but at 65$ a pop, they'd better actually look right.

Here it is...

With the death of Squiggy, I was rewatching some Laverne & Shirley and remembering Betty Garrett. She's a forgotten musical comedy actress. When Judy Garland spun out of control on Annie Get Your Gun, Garrett was considered as a replacement.

And she loved F*O*L*L*I*E*S. I've often wondered if she used this as an audition piece for a potential Follies movie? And I wonder if the lyrics changes were ones Sondheim had considered for a possible movie?

Good lord, that Glenn Close/Norma ornament is hideous. She looks like Manhattan Cable legend Mrs. Mouth.

I never thought Betty Lynn could pull off Dolly. And that clip proves I was right.

I'd rather have a G as Alex or Mamaw ornament.

Thanks, R42!

R45 I'm sure you know that Garrett's actual number in Follies was Broadway Baby. Her final Broadway role.

How did Buckley ever get the lead in the Hello Dolly tour?

Who passed on it? Practically any of the Berthe's from the Pippin revival would have been good: Lucie Arnaz, Adrienne Barbeau, Annie Potts.

I think Betty is a better film than stage actress.

Betty isn't funny and Dolly needs an actress with great comic, dare I say campy, timing.

Seeing clips of Batty Buckley doing Dolly makes me ever so glad that I got to see Ann Miller do it.

Betty can never land jokes. In Sunset Blvd. lines that Close got huge laughs with Betty got nothing. (like when he asks her how old the character she wants to play in Salome is...Close's 16!! Was quite funny where as Buckley not at all.)

That Norma Desmond ornament looks like she just ate a dinner that Max burned and she's trying to get her GERD under control.

I didn't get round to seeing The Prom onstage nor have I listened to the cast recording. Are all the songs that insipid?

And is Ryan Murphy trying to embarrass Kidman? For a song that's about 'zazz', she's been directed to look not dissimilar to how I did doing Fosse moves in my bedroom as a 13 year-old gayling.

[quote]I recall reading that Keith Baxter used to greet backstage visitors to his dressing room at "Sleuth" while he was in the nude.

And also for the person mentioned Andrews: Tallulah was notorious for receiving her backstage visitors nude. Related, she once sent an opening night telegram to her friend Helen Hayes that read "Lay 'em in the aisles. And if they won't do it there, take them home with you."

[quote]she's been directed to look not dissimilar to how I did doing Fosse moves in my bedroom as a 13 year-old gayling.

How many different Oscar acceptance speeches did you rehearse in front of the mirror r57?

You're all missing Betty's interpretation of the role - she consulted her shaman and is playing the spirit of Dolly's depressed deaf grandmother.

Yeeesh, that is one low energy "Parade." R51, I'm assuming Rudin and Zaks were looking for a "Broadway star" to play Dolly on the road... Betty was just the first one to say yes maybe? If not her, Faith Prince or Victoria Clark (unless they already turned it down... I have no idea what sort of hierarchy would go into this asking process or who has bad blood with whom - did Jerry Herman really forbid Patti LuPone from playing Dolly or was it just he didn't want Jack O'Brien futzing around with the book/score)?

Has any footage of Carolee as Dolly floated anywhere yet? If I knew 2020 was gonna pan out the way it did, I'd'a taken the Amtrak to Philly and seen the tour but alas.

OF COURSE Dolly is depressed. Her frickin' husband died! Now, just to survive, she has to marry herself off to a life of servitude to Horace Vandergelder. And leave the City!

Betty gets all this, where others who have gone before her have not. Just like Tovah understood that "Gallagher" means that Dolly is an Irish immigrant with a touch o' the blarney in her voice.

These actresses know things.

[quote]Betty gets all this, where others who have gone before her have not. Just like Tovah understood that "Gallagher" means that Dolly is an Irish immigrant with a touch o' the blarney in her voice.

I've often wondered why Dolly was often portrayed by a Jewish actress and with Jewish mannerisms when she is Irish Catholic who married a Jew.

What Jewish actresses have famously played Dolly (with or without "Jewish mannerisms") other than Barbra and Tovah?

Did Molly Picon or Roberta Peters play Dolly? Peters did some musicals possibly, certainly operettas like "Merry Widow". They were both Jewish.

The story is when "Song and Dance" was on Broadway, someone at TKTS window asked for tickets to see Roberta Peters in it.

Judy Holliday would have made a great Dolly had she lived; she was Jewish, though her characters like Billie Dawn didn't come across as as being particularly kosher.

[quote]What Jewish actresses have famously played Dolly (with or without "Jewish mannerisms") other than Barbra and Tovah?

Bette Midler

Bea Arthur should have played Dolly. She had experience playing matchmakers.

Ruth Gordon was a famous Broadway Dolly.

But who the fuck cares about the religion of the actress? She's playing a character. Acting. Remember acting?

oh r70 you posted this on the Topping thread too. Hilarious.

If you think that's funny, you should have seen me trying to figure out where the goddamned post ended up the first time.

Betty’s vocals in Sunset made up for everything else. Paige got the humor and had the vocal power. But Glenn was my fav.

R61 I saw Carolee Carmello in Dolly in Philly. Both she and John Bolton were terrible in a different way, chewing the scenery on autopilot with not a real moment of acting between either one of them. It shocked me as I am a fan of Carmello's other work and didn't expect to see Ethel Merman reincarnated, but that's what it was like. The production values were decent but it looked like 3/4 of the Broadway lighting had been cut, a real shame. For the end of the tour and being so close to New York I expected a lot of cast replacements but there were none, and the ensemble was as crisp and sharp as opening night which was incredibly impressive- they saved what was otherwise a disappointing night.

Carolee Carmello? Oh, please. Of course not.

[quote] [R61] I saw Carolee Carmello in Dolly in Philly. Both she and John Bolton were terrible in a different way, chewing the scenery on autopilot with not a real moment of acting between either one of them.

John Bolton. Now there's a career I can't quite fathom. I suppose it's for when you need someone who has the star quality of, say, Hugh Panaro, but with about 85% less effeminacy.

sweet guy and good voice but incorrigible mugger

Rex Smith used to greet people in his dressing room nekked. He loved the reactions when that big floppy cock was knocking stuff off the dressing room table.

John Bolton basically played himself in that "Boys In The Band" revival years ago, but he can't quite swing a straight man. One exception was the dad in the musical of "A Christmas Story". Because he played him like a big ole queen.

Bolton is besties with Miss Eve Plumb. When did he do BITB?

Old Dolly.

Yvonne De Carlo played Dolly several times in the late 1960s. I saw her in a bus and truck tour and she was wonderful. She played the part with a delightful Irish brogue so Tovah should shut the fuck up about being the first to do that.

Who is that with DeCarlo? Looks like one of those animatronic fortune tellers from a cheap carnival.

Tis the season. If you're not already gay, this clip should do the trick.

Has Liza EVER been more manic?

I saw the Dolly! tour in San Francisco. The production itself was razor-sharp -- Betty Lynn? Not so much. Lewis J Stadlen made a very fine Horace. As mentioned above, the ensemble was terrific (and terrifically good-looking). I'm glad I saw it, despite the rather leaden leading lady.

"Leaden Leading Lady: My Life in the Theatre" by Betty Lynn Buckley.

[quote]Has Liza EVER been more manic?

This clip has EVERYTHING, including Cyril Ritchard . . . wearing a dress.

Try playing "Ding a Ling, Ding a Ling" at 1.25 or 1.50 playback speed and the hilarity intensifies.

The irrepressible Miss Ruta Lee talking about Westerns and a bit about 7 Brides/7 Brothers...

I love Betty, but Dolly needs an actress who's a bit of a clown and that's never been Betty. She's far too reserved and ladylike in everything I've ever seen her in. She always seems too hesitant to let her hair down and have fun which is a must for comedy. It also doesn't help that her voice is pretty much gone and she sound really off pitch when she tries to sustain some of those longer notes in the song.

She seems like the type of actress who has to dissect every line in the script 5,000 times. In the process, her performances loses all spontaneity and feels canned and artificial. Maybe this is why I've always found her better on film where there's not as much rehearsal time and you have to just do it and move on.

R53, that's Don De Leo with Yvonne De Carlo. It was the De tour.

They needed the De Castro Sisters, r91!

Jeremy O-I’m-so-impressed-with-myself Harris seems to be showing up everywhere. Make it stop. STFU already Jeremy oh Harris. So far you’re a mediocre playwright who may one day write a better play. But right now you were one-fail wonder. 🤫🤫🤫🤫

Sunset Blvd to be streamed later this month (sorry G) with Ria Jones and super hot Danny Mac in the leads...

R94 Danny Mac is indeed a hotty, seen in the last year or so in the West End in "White Christmas" and "Pretty Woman."

Ria Jones' history with "Sunset" goes all the way back to the very first Sydmonton workshop presentation (one act, and still with those Amy Powers lyrics). Jones got more attention when she subbed for Glenn Close in the concert production at English National Opera that transferred to Broadway.

For about three year now, a good-quality bootleg has been in circulation of this very "Sunset" that will be streamed, with Ria Jones and Danny Mac, captured at a stop of the UK tour in Germany. Sorry to say that Ria, for all her experience with the show, is a disappointingly prosaic Norma, not bad but not the one you wanted preserved forever on a commercial pro-video.

That's a good point about BLB. That may be why her most successful performance was in Sunset, where that approach paid off because she gave the role a psychological dimension that it was missing in Close's Kabuki show.

R68 And Bette won the Tony just three years ago.

Danny Mac for reference. ( always good to include pictures)

No prepared Oscar speeches, R59. But I had the one for my Tony Award practiced perfectly!

[quote]No prepared Oscar speeches, [R59]. But I had the one for my Tony Award practiced perfectly!

Piece of advice: don't be pretentious like Miss Phylicia Rashad was.

That Brit production of 42nd Street was like watching paste dance all night.

I love Bonnie Langford but she’s a Maggie Jones not a Dorothy Brock. It’s a terrible production.

R101 How do you mean?

That British 42nd Street is none too good. The additional musical number for Dorothy Brock is a disaster.

But Clare Halse is astounding. Hands down the best Peggy Sawyer I've seen. I saw Wanda Richert and Karen Ziemba in the original production and all of the Peggys in the 2001 Broadway revival. (I worked in the industry and had reason to see them all in the revival.) Halse beats them all.

For some reason, the British don't produce musical theater dancers.

R102 and R104: That additional song for Dorothy was added because that London "42nd Street" revival opened with Sheena Easton as Dorothy. And Easton was replaced by another vocalist, Lulu.

By the time Bonnie Langford took over as the third Dorothy, the extra song was indeed extraneous.

Did anyone see the revised 42nd Street at The Ordway? I heard it was great...

London might be placed into Tier 3 by next week, which means that the Les Mis In Concert, A Christmas Carol In Concert, Potted Panto and that fucking awful Jamie show will have to shut down. How could Cameron Mackintosh and the others be so stupid to open anything now? NOTHING should re-open until 75% of the population are vaccinated

You guys are crazy. That London 42nd Street production is terrific. Kudos to the director, choreographer, and talent onstage who brought this gem to us.

IMHO

[quote]Betty can never land jokes. In Sunset Blvd. lines that Close got huge laughs with Betty got nothing. (like when he asks her how old the character she wants to play in Salome is...Close's 16!! Was quite funny where as Buckley not at all.)

I didn't see Betty in SUNSET, but a video clip that I recently watched attests to your point. Betty completely destroyed the laugh on "I'm am big, it's the pictures that got small!" by pausing way too long before delivering the line. Incredible that someone like her would be signed for the role of Dolly Levi, but I guess, in the producer's mind, the fact that she was still something of a named trumped (you'll pardon the expression) the fact that she was terribly miscast.

And I’ll never forget the silence which followed Betty’s “Now GO” directly after “With One Look.” That was pathetic. That would normally get the biggest laugh of the evening.

I happily did without the laughs to hear some actual singing and not to see Glenn‘s ridiculous Carol Burnett-level carrying-on

Like Rose in Gypsy, I like my Norma's to have a little humor to them. It makes them a little more human, hence more pathetic. They're not just sullen, morose, and angry the whole time. There's not an interesting arc that way.

R112, I'm getting the impression that Glenn played Norma very differently at different performances. When I saw her live in the show, I thought her acting was fine, but in TV clips I saw at the time, she was crazy over-the-top, and she also seemed to be playing Norma as a woman of 90 rather than 50. And then, when I saw her in the concert revival on Broadway a few years back, she was back to a much more restrained and far better performance.

The production wasn't as exciting or flashy, but Glenn's performance was definitely better and more nuanced in the revival. I was very impressed by that. I liked that she'd taken what she'd learned and almost created a new Norma this time. All this years and she was still trying new things.

Benefit concert for RAINN from last night featuring performances by Vanessa Williams, Cheyenne Jackson, Kelli O'Hara, Ashley Park, Chenowith, Billy Porter, Leslie Odom Jr., Jewel, and Laura Benanti.

I loved Betty in Sunset. Don't remember any absence of humor (or at least it bothering me). I wanted a Norma who could sing. I purposely waited for Glenn to leave, even though my mom had been bugging me to take her. I got us house seats and she was fine with Betty.

42ND STREET is supposed to have humans in those roles not the screeching cartoon characters in the British production.

[quote]And I’ll never forget the silence which followed Betty’s “Now GO” directly after “With One Look.” That was pathetic. That would normally get the biggest laugh of the evening.

I never understood why that line was supposed to get a laugh. Can someone explain?

And who the fuck still laughs at "I'm still big. It's the pictures got small?" Everyone knows it.

I certainly don't remember "I'm still big. It's the pictures that got small" being a laff riot when Gloria Swanson spoke those lines. It was more sad than funny.

I think it's the kind of line, much like "Fasten your seat belts, it's going to be a bumpy night!" that gets laughs of acknowledgment.

I know "We had faces then" always sends me into paroxysms of laughter. "Sunset Boulevard" is a dark comedy, not a Fanny Brice short.

Man, I just watched the Spongebob Musical that was filmed for Nickelodeon. First, I forgot that Wes Tay Tay was in it, so that was an annoyance I wasn't too patient with. But who the fuck was this thing supposed to be for? It's too adult for kids and too boring for adults. I'm not the least bit surprised it flopped; I guess my question is- who thought this would be a hit?

I know I couldn’t stop laughing for hours after seeing that unfortunate video of Glenn’s “return” to the role... and to say I am a ham! I’d rather be ham than cheap bacon.

That production of 42nd St had not the slightest inkling of how to play American musical comedy.

The 42nd St video was unbelievably horrible and cartoonish. After the first 15 minutes I skipped forward to the big numbers and even they were underwhelming to say the least. A David Merrick production this was not.

I wouldn't call Sunset Blvd a black comedy, r123, it certainly wasn't originally marketed that way. That's not to say it didn't have a bit of cynical humor here and there.

The Julian was sexy

Handsome chap

Smell you, R127. Christine Ebersole did not win her Tony in David Merrick's production of 42nd Street.

The production at the Drury Lane is the same production that opened on Broadway in 2001. (Plus one regrettable additional song for Dorothy Brock.)

Nor did I say she did, R131. That doesn’t make the video any less rank. I saw the same revival TWENTY years ago, on Broadway, with an American cast, assumedly supervised by Randy Skinner. Mary Testa was a cartoonish buffoon (surprise!) and the production was middling, but this video of whatever was presented in the West End sucks and so does the cast.

[quote]I never understood why that line was supposed to get a laugh. Can someone explain?

Seems to me the line is funny because Norma has just poured out her heart and soul in a full-voice aria, and then there's wild applause from the audience....and then she says to Joe "Now, GO," as if he serves no further purpose now that his function as her audience has ended. Kind of similar to the reason why Mrs. Lovett's line "That's all very well" is very funny when delivered after Sweeney Todd's "Epiphany" and the ovation that follows that highly emotional, intense, very challenging moment.

But maybe your sense of humor is on a different wavelength from the rest of us.

Oh, no! You didn't just compare ALW to Sondheim, or SWEENEY TODD to... SUNSET BOULEVARD?????

No, R134, I was just commenting that those two individual lines in those two works are amusing for a similar reason. I fully acknowledged that SUNSET BLVD. is a piece of musical theater dreck while SWEENEY TODD is one of the greatest masterpieces of all time. Seriously.

Close's performance did change over the years.

She was phenomenal in Los Angeles. She gave it the full out emotion that was similar to what she had displayed in some of her most acclaimed roles in Fatal Attraction or Dangerous Liasions. She was just electric. Funny. Horribly hysterical in the suicide scene and then completely detached from reality in the final scene. Plus she took the curtain call in character and never broke. (some people don't like that I know but it was cool to see.)

Then in NYC she was a bit more cartoonish but she had done the show for so long in LA that I doubt it was physically possible to keep that level of freshness going.

I agree in the revival she was more controlled and restrained but man that LA run (saw it at the beginning and end) was something else.

No wonder they dumped Faye Dunaway. No one was going to replace the force of nature Close was.

If I were Joe, I would’ve taken one look at that gesticulating gargoyle and run for the Hollywood hills. The crazy wafted off her like the steam off a turd on the ice.

[quote]But maybe your sense of humor is on a different wavelength from the rest of us.

I guess it is because I didn't see that moment as funny. I saw it as terribly tragic. Norma is pushing away a very handsome man, her only contact with the outside world. I shed a tear when she said it. I almost stood up and yelled, "Don't do it, Norma. Don't send him away! Take him and give him all the love in your heart!"

What are you talking about? She says "now go," but he doesn't leave.

Well, 138, I think the line "Now, go" could be received by the audience as either very funny or very sad, depending on the timing of the performer's delivery and the inflection of the reading. But I would say that playing the line for comedy is the better choice, because if you play it for sadness that early in the show, you have nowhere to go when the story gets darker and darker as it goes along. I think the general rule in a drama with comedic elements is that most of the comedy should come earlier and most of the drama should come later.

Don't remember who was the NY Times critic at the time but when he reviewed Buckley's Norma he said it was as if Norma had spent some time at the Betty Ford Center and was more stable now.

It's odd. I think Betty Lynn had gotten so much flack over her past behavior and being called a bitch and stuff that she was afraid to go full out bitchy as Norma thinking people would think it was just her being her.

She seems to know about that criticism and always justifies it as she was trying to bring some humanity to her version. (thus implying Patti and Glenn's didn't have any.)

I would have liked to have seen Patti LuPone when she found out that the box office was playing Barbra Streisand's two songs from Sunset Boulevard. She probably put a Sicilian curse on the entire West End.

[quote]I would have liked to have seen Patti LuPone when she found out that the box office was playing Barbra Streisand's two songs from Sunset Boulevard. She probably put a Sicilian curse on the entire West End.

Of course, when she did find out about this, her reaction was exactly the opposite of what it should have been if she were smart. She should have made a lighthearted joke about the situation, which would have put everyone on her side. Instead, she bitched about it -- as she has done about everything else in her life that wasn't 100 percent to her liking.

It drove LuPone so crazy that she wrote in her book that once again Lloyd Webber had underminded her with Streisand just like he did when he let Streisand record Don't Cry for Me Argentina prior to her Broadway opening.

Streisand never put out a record of Don't Cry for Me.

I think she was confusing it with how Streisand released a single of Memory a number of months prior to Cats opening.

I wonder why Lloyd Webber settled on LuPone to originate the role. In the years prior he had always talked of having a real movie star take the role. He mentioned someone like Liza Minelli or Shirley MacLaine.

Liza was probably to risky to place a big show on her shoulders. I guess MacLaine turned him down.

I also wonder why he switched to singers after Close. Theaterweek got a hold of the casting list of replacements from which Dunaway was chosen. It was all actresses with little or no singing experience. It seemed like he wanted someone to talk sing the songs like Dunaway was going to do..

Then on Broadway and in London all the replacements were Buckley and Paige and big belters. No wonder the show lost money. Had it been the cavalcade of stars like Hello Dolly was in its original run people may have kept coming.

Someone on here always insists Cher was about to do the Toronto company and then try Broadway but backed out. It should have been a parade of divas (Diana Ross, Angela Lansbury etc.) but instead we just got old Evas and Grizabellas.

There's a song that Liza used to sing that is a helpful listen if you need to spell her name. May I suggest that some posters give it a listen?

oh don't be such a proofreader r146 here's the extra n. Insert it where you like.

Diana Ross, Cher, Shirley, Chita, and a handful of others were in the mix for Sunset in Toronto, but none of them were available. Some were too expensive for Darth Grabinsky's pockets.

One of the reasons the show didn’t run in nyc is the number of missed performances (including a 2 week vacation every 3 months) by all of the Norma’s. No one wanted to see an understudy.

remember the days when they'd bring in stars to replace vacationing stars

Raquel Welch for Lauren Bacall in Woman of the Year

Diahann Carroll for Elizabeth Ashley in Agnes of God

Angela Lansbury (sort of) for Yul Brynner

That made for some interesting casting and Welch and Carroll both assumed the roles later on. Carroll I believe was a breakthrough in that it was the first time a black actress took over for a white actress in a play---not sure of that I could be wrong. Pearl Bailey doesn't count since the whole company went black.

[quote] "I Fucked Keith Baxter and All I Got Was the Maids Quarters at the Dakota"

I fucked Meredith Baxter and all I got was sore knuckles.

[quote] Can anyone explain why Rex Reed went shoplifting at Tower Records?

Because he was already banned from Nobody Beats the Wiz.

R145 LuPone was able to sing the score the way it was written. Sydmonton was her audition and she gave perfect performance.

Andrew thought he was the star to bring in the audiences and vastly overrated the potency and popularity of the title.

[quote{[R145] LuPone was able to sing the score the way it was written.

Able to sing the score the way it was written when they recorded it for cd release. LuPone is known for wildly deviating from what’s written. And I’m surprised after she changed so much in Evita, and bitched about how ALW couldn’t write for women, that he hired her again.

It’s interesting that ALW went with Petula Clark for the London replacement. I saw her and she was ok, but not great. She never captured Norma’s fierceness and seemed too childlike to actually pull the trigger.

R154 said a mouthful in his post. You nailed it, baby.

Just ask Linda Balgord.

In all, I saw four Normas: LuPone, Close, Buckley and Karen Mason. No question, Close was the best.

To me there's a basic disconnect between Norma as a character and the songs that ALW has written for her. As fierce and fiery as Norma should be in places, there is also a fragility to her, an ephemeral quality. Joe comments on it; saying she's almost like a ghost, smelling of faded roses. If you've got Patti LuPone (decidedly NOT a fragile, let alone ephemeral presence) standing center stage, impressively belting out Cs and Ds all evening, you lose something vital in the story.

Close's voice was all over the map, yes, but to me she was the only Norma to ever make the entire role work and not just moments here and there. Even with her questionable singing voice, she made the songs work as theatre; her post-menopausal attempts at a girlish soprano made perfect sense to me. She was an older woman still trying to ply her feminine wiles to get her way, not a Mamma Rose-style bulldozer like LuPone. (I'd argue that Rose shouldn't be a bulldozer either, but that's a different debate.)

FWIW, my second favorite Norma of the ones I saw was actually Mason. More delicate than LuPone, funnier and more engaging than Buckley. Did she ever officially take over the role or was she only ever the understudy?

FWIW Christine Ebersole did win a Tony (her first of 2) for 42nd Street.

And she should have played Norma Desmond.

R131 was distinguishing between the original production and the revival

"Well, r138, I think the line "Now, go" could be received by the audience as either very funny or very sad, depending on the timing of the performer's delivery and the inflection of the reading."

*

I think it should be in the middle, r140. The range being between Buckley and Burnett.

I saw Karen Mason sub for BB and I felt like she copied Close. Except when she sang of course.

R133 described the “Now GO” line perfectly. I’m pretty sure it’s always meant to get a big laugh. It’s meant to serve as the trigger for an audience release of laughter. And Buckley was miserably incapable of understanding this.

I wonder if Close had it in her contract that no one of note could replace her on her vacations, and that's why ALW pulled that stunt with the poster or standee in the lobby of the theater heralding Karen Mason's reviews. Because they should have very easily been able to get a well known actress/singer to come in for those two weeks every few months. It might have actually boosted sales because the show queens would have rushed to see it again had it been someone well known. I know damn well I was clamoring to see Liza step into V/V (though not for the reasons one would expect).

Thanks, bitches, now I had to go load up the London Cast Recording of SB. I wish Betty had recorded it, too. I should give Diahann Carroll's version a listen.

Karen Mason seems to have always been understudy/replacement in everything, r157. Too bad Rebecca didn't pan out for her.

Mason's Norma...

Does anyone know why Kevin Anderson didn't come to Broadway with Sunset? I assume Daniel Benzali was filming Murder One (and getting George Hearn would seem like a boon) but all Alan Campbell was ever known for was playing third banana on the failed spinoff of Three's Company for one season.

Upon seeing the revival a few years ago, I realized what a mostly mediocre show Sunset Boulevard is. Whenever it leaves the mansion to focus on Joe, Betty, or the studio, I wanted to go to sleep. It feels a bit like the musical version of Carrie to me. The stuff when you're trapped in that oppressive house with the mother and daughter is excellent, but all the stuff at school with the kids feels off and is nowhere near as effective.

I'm watching ILL. The Ricardos and Mertzes are in England.

The episode on right now, they're in Scotland...or Brigadoon...

God, I fucking HATE that episode.

It's silly, r171. I just thought it was interesting that in the two episodes I just watched, there was a Broadway (however tenuous) connection.

Oh, I wasn't shitting on you for posting it. Just commenting on the episode itself. It's one of the rare ILL episodes that I will turn off if I come across it.

The high point for me was...

The photo at R169 indicates that Lucy started rehearsals for "Mame" about 20 years before the movie began production.

I hate Karen Mason in SB. She looked for all the world like Wayland Flowers' Madam. And she demonstrated why she was never a star.

Angela, Bernadette, Patti, Betty Lynn and Elaine all have/had a *sound*. Karen doesn't have a *sound*.

Indeed, r175.

And a look, Karen! You need a look. Get one.

No Broadway reference with this one, but I just have to post it...

That’s one of my favorite ILL scenes, R180. And I LOVE when Lucy later says that Ethel is looking a little hippy in the potamous!

Kevin Anderson hated the way Patti was treated so he was done with the show. Rotating Norma’s every few months would have been smart. Cher might have done it for 2 months but not 6 or a year.

Anderson also got some lousy reviews, especially by Frank Rich and in Time magazine.

Can anyone explain why Casey Nicholaw has had a GIANT career on Broadway? And perhaps at the same time cite any distinctive work he's created in anything? Thank you.

Casey NIcholaw. And Jerry Mitchell and Scott Ellis and Rob Ashford and Kathleen Marshall and on and on and on.....

But with Aladdin, Mormon and Elf he’s got royalties coming in by the buttload. Probably millions. And add Mean Girls. It’s insane.

Casey may not be the best director out there, but he's pleasant to work with and that goes a long way in this business. He's got a good eye for putting together casts and creative teams that will be hardworking and low-drama, which, again, holds a lot of currency in the industry.

I do wish he would stop choreographing his own shows. All of those manic upper body moves are nearly seizure inducing.

Several years ago, I saw Karen Mason sing in Macy's at Christmas. She was introducing some new Christmas song and the poor dear forgot the lyrics.

[quote]Angela, Bernadette, Patti, Betty Lynn and Elaine all have/had a *sound*.

You're god damn right I had a sound: loud and off-key!

She was a pretty fine vocalist in her earlier days...

And who can forget...

I'm listening to Georgia Brown's Weill album. I've always loved her Saga of Jenny. It's suave and yet a bit bitchy.

Anyone watching "The Grinch Musical" with Matthew Morrison on NBC tonight?

August Wilson to Be Immortalized on United States Postal Service Forever Stamp:

I cannot believe someone gave 11 hours of their limited time on this planet to Andrew Lloyd Webber's Sunset Boulevard.

Hadestown

Hadestown

I saw Bryan Batt play Joe Gillis opposite Miss Betty. Oh dear. Some gay actors just cannot play straight.

[quote]Some gay actors just cannot play straight.

I never had that problem.

[quote]I wonder why Lloyd Webber settled on LuPone to originate the role. In the years prior he had always talked of having a real movie star take the role. He mentioned someone like Liza Minelli or Shirley MacLaine. Liza was probably to risky to place a big show on her shoulders. I guess MacLaine turned him down.

Liza is all wrong for the role of Norma Desmond in every conceivable way. She would have been laughed off the stage. MacLaine is only slightly less wrong for the role, and could NEVER have sung it.

[quote]I wonder if Close had it in her contract that no one of note could replace her on her vacations, and that's why ALW pulled that stunt with the poster or standee in the lobby of the theater heralding Karen Mason's reviews. Because they should have very easily been able to get a well known actress/singer to come in for those two weeks every few months.

R163, what on earth makes you think it would have been "very easy" to do such a thing? Do you have any idea how the theater works, especially when stars are involved?

Insufferable

Kevin Anderson left Sunset Boulevard before the Patti drama started. She writes in her book that she felt really sad that he was going and that she was being left behind. He may have seen the writing on the wall that Close and the LA company would come to Broadway and quit before he got fired. (sort of dumb if he had a contract for NY like Patti did. He may have missed out on a big payout.)

r200 It was done in the past as mentioned above. Raquel Welch replaced Lauren Bacall for two weeks and it was an event (much to Bacall's anger.)

Rita Moreno subbed for Pet Clark in SB in the west end. Elaine Paige originally stepped into the show in London when Betty had emergency surgery.

Who ever produced the Tony Awards that year was a poor sport the way they wouldn't let Carol Burnett walk down the staircase of the Sunset set.

[quote] [R163], what on earth makes you think it would have been "very easy" to do such a thing? Do you have any idea how the theater works, especially when stars are involved?

I've worked in the theater for over 30 years, toots, so sit the fuck down.

There have been many examples already cited in this thread where that has happened in the past. In fact it happened while Close was doing SB on Broadway right across the street at Victor/Victoria with Liza Minnelli stepping in for Julie Andrews for 4 weeks.

I really fucking hate it when some asshole decides to climb up on their high horse when they don't have a clue what the fuck they're talking about.

Raquel was fabulous in Woman of the Year. I wish she had done more musicals. She was supposed to headline the Applause revival but backed out and was replaced by Stefanie Powers. And let’s not talk about Victor/Victoria.

[quote]It was done in the past as mentioned above. Raquel Welch replaced Lauren Bacall for two weeks and it was an event (much to Bacall's anger.)

Welch did in fact replace Bacall in WOMAN OF THE YEAR for two weeks in December of 1981, but then she succeeded Bacall in the role and played it for six months from July 1982 to early January 1983, so that was a completely different situation than what was described above. I'd be willing to bet that the replacement deal was in place from the beginning.

[quote]Rita Moreno subbed for Pet Clark in SB in the west end. Elaine Paige originally stepped into the show in London when Betty had emergency surgery.

[quote]There have been many examples already cited in this thread where that has happened in the past. In fact it happened while Close was doing SB on Broadway right across the street at Victor/Victoria with Liza Minnelli stepping in for Julie Andrews for 4 weeks.

All of those replacements were under very special circumstances. What you wrote above was "they should have very easily been able to get a well known actress/singer to come in for those two weeks every few months" to play the role of Norma in SUNSET BOULEVARD. I'm not sure from your phrasing whether you mean the same performer could have played the role for two weeks every few months, or different performers each for two weeks, but either way, I think it's highly unlikely that any performer(s) of any stature or name would agree to such a deal.

P.S. Very early in her career, as early as the original CHICAGO, Liza became known as someone who could be counted on to come into a show for a brief period and boos the box office but could not be counted on for an extended run in a show, due to her absentee record.

Sorry, that was supposed to be "boost the box office."

:-)

I think Kitty Carlisle went into On Your Toes for a few weeks and then later replaced Dina Merrill full time.

Snort. Someone has mentioned Cher more than once as a possible Norma and the idea is laughable.

Love Cher but she doesn't have the voice or the stamina to sing that score for 8 shows a week.

Or, to be blunt, the acting talent to pull off that role.

She tours and does two hour concerts r211. Surely she could sing a few songs as Norma.

Anyway someone who posts on DL says they worked on the Toronto production and they swear Cher was in negotiations.

R212 You're kidding, right?

Cher has been mostly lip syncing for years. She's 110 and most of her concerts consist of costume changes. She saves all her energies for that and not actually singing.

Also: she couldn't sing that score.

OK r213 but the fact remains that she was apparently approached to do it. Is Rita Moreno a great singer? She played the role in London and acted the songs.

Faye Dunaway was hired to do it and probably could have talk sang the songs but ALW feared how much the advance sales had plummeted and blamed Faye for the closing.

R194 Good. He deserves it. But it's ironic how Wilson was against colorblind casting and casting blacks in traditional white roles.

R205 Someone posted on here that Carol wanted to, but Glenn vetoed it. I seem to recall Carol even makes a sly reference to it when she's presenting.

R212, Cher has even commented that she does not have a great voice so the audience would not sit for a simpler presentation--she does the costumes and choreography to make up for a limited voice.

Cher is smart enough to know she could not sing SB, and her failure would dent her standing.

Wake me when the SB posts dwindle to a trickle.

The only thing to quibble about in the pissing match above are the words "very easily." It's not easy getting a replacement with a Star career to come to Broadway, at all. But to do it for a few weeks, is extremely difficult. AND EXPENSIVE! The only motivation a producer has for doing it is to keep a viable production running while the star takes a break. Rehearsals. Costumes. Wigs. Lots of photography. Lots of publicity. It all costs money. From the producer's point of view, none of that is easy.

Sometimes a star makes a big splash, as Raquel Welch did with Woman of the Year. But sometimes they crash and burn, as Liza did with Victor/Victoria. Debbie Fuckin' Reynolds was not able to keep Woman of the Year running any more than three weeks. If anyone should have appealed to tourists, it would certainly seem to be Debbie Reynolds. But... no dice. Before they got Debbie Reynolds, the producers spent considerable time and effort trying to get Kim Novak to take over from Welch. She considered it, but could not summon the will to say "yes" to the opportunity. And when they say, "No," what is to be done? There isn't always time to start all over again before the current star's contract expires. Identifying the right star and getting that star to sign is not easy. French star Danielle Darrieux took over COCO from Katharine Hepburn, got great notices in the NY Times, and could only run the show two months.

Katie Finneran played Sally Bowles in the Roundabout's revival of CABARET. But only for about a month. The Roundabout was waiting for Gina Gershon and had a hole to fill. Katie Finneran had not won her first Tony at that time, (let alone her second Tony,) and was plugged into the show with absolutely no public announcement. The producers didn't want anyone knowing they had no one but this woman no one had ever heard of. I saw her and she was tremendous, but she wasn't the star the Roundabout wanted and needed to sell tickets.

One can replace a star, but not "very easily."

As everyone who suffered through that Cher musical can attest, it is in the public's interest to keep her as far away from a Broadway stage as possible.

Cher is a studio singer. She has her niche songs, but she has never been good live, plus she has the vibrato of a major earthquake and tends to swallow her words. She has limited range and there is no way she could belt Norma's music. Tell me that she could thrillingly sing the "I've come home at last" line with the same force that the others have done it. Plus, she could never build the belief that she would pull a gun on someone. She doesn't have the emotional palette. She's too matter-of-fact to play Norma.

I mean, if Cher had been cast in Sunset Boulevard I can't imagine anybody'd be buying a ticket to see a complex, nuanced portrayal of Norma Desmond. You'd be buying a ticket to see fuckin' Cher!

The scale of her emotional palette would be neither here nor there.

No comments about "the Grinch" musical on tv last night? I switched over to watch the last hour after viewing "The Amazing Race". I don't know how they stretched the first hour but when I tuned in the Grinch had just entered Cindy Lou Who's house and was starting to loot it. Matthew Morrison was very hammy and seemed game, but something was off. I don't know why there seemed to be 2 people playing Max the dog -- I think someone named BooBoo was the dancing part and Denis O'Hare was the singing/narrating part, though he singing of the main song was nowhere near as good or deep as Thurl Ravenscroft in the cartoon. This hour just was padded with not so hot music, besides the original, plus it wasn't staged particularly well. Every time there seemed to be something interesting visually to happen which would require a big scene change, there was a commercial break which then just was anticlimactic. The little girl playing Cindy Lou was good and suitably adorable, though. How did they pad the first hour?

Everybody went to see Sunset Boulevard to watch the mansion being raised and lowered. The songs and actress were secondary.

She said "she'd give her eye teeth to have come down that staircase", r216. I don't believe it was by Glenn's request that she was not allowed to do so. Glenn isn't all *that * great and powerful. I recall it being ALW and/or the producers.

Debbie stepped into Woman of the Year after the show had been shutdown for a month in the dead of winter. It was a hopeless situation. The producer promised to back Debbie in a Molly Brown revival if she first stepped in for the pregnant Welch. Had she take over in spring or summer she would have brought in the tourists.

There was talk a decade ago or maybe longer of Cher starring in a Mame TV musical. I think Jerry Herman even gave it his blessing.

Seems like an odd choice.

There’s no one around these days who can pull off Mame. Maybe CZJ but not sure if she has the warmth.

CZJ "I'm much too young to play Mame" joke in 5, 4, 3 . . .

[quote]Cher has been mostly lip syncing for years. She's 110 and most of her concerts consist of costume changes. She saves all her energies for that and not actually singing. Also: she couldn't sing that score.

If her voice was in top shape, as it was 30 years ago, she could have sung the score in terms of hitting the notes with power, but her vocal style is SO completely wrong for those songs that the entire show would have been a camp fiasco.

[quote]Faye Dunaway was hired to do it and probably could have talk sang the songs but ALW feared how much the advance sales had plummeted and blamed Faye for the closing.

There are songs/roles that can be "talk-sung," and others that simply cannot. Norma Desmond in SUNSET BLVD. is in the latter category, and if you think otherwise, I' sorry but you have no knowledge of music.

[quote]But it's ironic how Wilson was against colorblind casting and casting blacks in traditional white roles.

What's ironic about it? In my opinion, his reasons for that stance were, not surprisingly, very intelligent and well argued.

[quote]She said "she'd give her eye teeth to have come down that staircase", [R216]. I don't believe it was by Glenn's request that she was not allowed to do so. Glenn isn't all *that * great and powerful. I recall it being ALW and/or the producers.

I had also heard it was ALW and/or the producers who forbade Burnett from coming down the staircase at the Tonys, and that sure sounds like ALW's M.O. Remember, he was the ONLY composer who initially didn't allow his music to be used with parody lyrics in FORBIDDEN BROADWAY, because he takes himself VERY seriously and apparently has ZERO sense of humor.

insufferable.

R231, your one-word opinions on my posts add nothing to these discussions, but I guess you have nothing else to add. Well, at least I got a wit and wisdom flag to counteract your pointless nastiness.

On another note: I didn't tune into the TV GRINCH because I couldn't stand the show on Broadway, but that version also had the concept of two Maxes -- one an older version narrating the story, the other acting out most or all of it.

"hardworking and low-drama, which, again, holds a lot of currency in the industry."

Which explains why American musical theatre is in eclipse. No grit, no pearl.

R233 Not just American musical theater. It's like that in London, as well.

A stage version of Bedknobs & Broomsticks at last! According to Baz Bamigboye it begins a UK tour in August.

Wilson is such a sacred cow, but while he was alive black theater artists pointed out he seemed to hold black theater in disdain. Wilson called for black regional theaters, but was unsupportive of the ones that there were, preferring to have his premieres at Yale with it largely white audience rather than at Crossroads, Penumbra, etc. He also was unfamiliar with the generation of black playwrights then coming up. He chose to model on old white playwrights and ignored other black writers who tried to find their own dramaturgy.

Maybe one day we will have a real biography of Wilson that will paint a full picture of him rather than presenting him as a plaster saint.

I heard someone say once that when they went to a new Wilson play they would always look around the set to see where the running water would be because there always was running water in his plays. Then he listed a catalog of things that were part of every August Wilson play. And I stopped feeling bad about finding his plays dull.

Not only did WOMAN OF THE YEAR shut down from January 2, 1983 until February 11, 1983 because of Raquel's pregnancy departure, Debbie became ill and was hospitalized missing several shows so momentum was lost.

The reviews of Matthew Morrison's "Grinch" I read on Playbill.com were dire. One headline: "Stink, stank, stunk."

August Wilson has written the same great play fifteen times.

Anyone watching NBC's tribute to Broadway tonight?

Yes, r240.

Poignant.......but dire.

Does anyone know how the Broadway TV special with Tina Fey was able to stage all these numbers?

All outdoors for starters

Debbie fainted onstage at the end of Act One at a Sat matinee after closing notice was posted. She missed two shows and returned Tues and played out the final week. Link to her closing night speech is attached.

karen mason was awesome in SB !!!!!!

Not in those YouTube clips, R245.

Karen Mason is serviceable. I have her Not So Simply Broadway cd and also the Wonderful Town studio recording. Both are technically good but lack passion. She neatly paints by the numbers.

Karen belongs to that Julia Murney, Stephanie Block, Jessica Voss, Shoshana Bean group. Ok but lack star quality.

[quote]Karen belongs to that Julia Murney, Stephanie Block, Jessica Voss, Shoshana Bean group. Ok but lack star quality.

Several times, we've had discussions about graduates of BFA Musical Theater programs that have strong voices but are so vanilla as to not even differentiate themselves from one another. I think Karen is a bit older than that crowd, but that's what I think of when I listen to her. No personality that registers.

Those kinds of talents mentioned above have been there always. The Jeannie Carsons and the Gaylea Byrnes of the world. Talented, but without that thing that can't be taught. Authentic star quality. The theater no long has authentic stars because the theater is no longer a place where an actress can build a notable starring career. After Bernadette Peters kicks the bucket, that's the end of it. She will be the last one, and even her career has not been of the same caliber of Mary, Ethel and Carol. Movies or television. Take your pick.

Producers don't even want stars anymore. They want the show to be the draw and the cast to be revolving in and out. They don't want the problems discussed above with Woman of the Year and they avoid big stars. Which is fine because we haven't any stars anymore.

[quote]The theater no long has authentic stars because the theater is no longer a place where an actress can build a notable starring career.

That's because all musical theater is now is jukebox musicals and movie-to-stage transfers.

That NBC "special" was anything but. Almost uniformly mediocre to bad performances. The only person who could sing was the girl playing Janice Ian in Mean Girls. Broadway is truly dead and it has nothing to do with Covid.

THat's what happens when you hire according to race or gender instead of talent. It just breeds mediocrity. This is true of everything, not just the arts.

[quote]The reviews of Matthew Morrison's "Grinch" I read on Playbill.com were dire. One headline: "Stink, stank, stunk."

It would appear that Mr. Morrison's attempt to reinvent himself as a character actor was not a success. I wonder what's left for him, now that whatever sex appeal he had is fading fast? I mean, it's not as if his singing voice or his acting were ever that exceptional.

[quote]That NBC "special" was anything but. Almost uniformly mediocre to bad performances. The only person who could sing was the girl playing Janice Ian in Mean Girls.

That Janis Ian "joke" (if that's what it was meant to be) isn't funny, and also, it isn't remotely close to the truth that the performer in question was "the only person who could sing." What a ridiculous statement. On the contrary, in the whole show, there were only one or two singers who made me want to leave the room (and one of them was the guy playing Frankie Valli in the JERSEY BOYS number towards the end).

When Broadway does return, I hope you'll stay away so I won't have to encounter you anywhere in the theater district.

[quote]Oh, please – I don't wanna hear about how Broadway's dying, 'cause I just got here!

Bebe in A Chorus Line, 1975. Well, it was the end of the golden age, but Broadway didn't die then and it isn't dying now, Months and months from now when producers and directors are able to reopen shows, or put on new shows, they will still have the greatest of actors, singers and dancers to chose from.

With your low standards, R254, you'll be super happy attending jukebox shows the rest of your life along with the Japanese tourists. Sayonara.

R253 here. By that I meant filling quotas and not appropriate casting.

A clip of the young Jean Valjean understudy who tragically died during the run of the recent Les Mis revival recently popped up on my YouTube feed. What were they thinking. Too young. Way too young. He looked like he was doing Les Mis light in junior high. How on earth did he get cast? Did the creative team cast a young black man because it was PC? What about talent and being the right fit for a role.

[quote]Wilson called for black regional theaters, but was unsupportive of the ones that there were, preferring to have his premieres at Yale with it largely white audience rather than at Crossroads, Penumbra, etc.

Sounds rather like a soon-to-be Tony winner who banged on about wanting his shows to be accessible to black people who can't afford Broadway...and then opened his over-rated play on Broadway.

But I guess he wouldn't have gotten to meet Rihanna if it wasn't on Broadway.

WE’VE SEEN ENOUGH OF YOU BLACK JEREMY O. HARRIS

R258, that was a tacky comment. Was it really necessary to trash this guy’s casting? Particularly since, ya know, it’s not like he’s going to be playing that role anymore?

MORE than enough, R260!

It is not the MFA programs that make for dull Broadway performers. All those great all stars had years of touring and playing second leads. That kind of early career is no longer possible. (If it were still possible there would be not need for musical theater MFA programs.)

Furthmore all the best alumni of those MFA programs are working in television where they can make a living. Sometimes they will come back an do a limited run of a straight play at some institutional theater. But it is harder to do that with a musical.

^^^playing second leads on Broadway.

They're all second bananas.

R263 is correct. It is no longer possible for an actor or musical theater performer to learn the craft while working in the business. There are not enough opportunities to work. No summer stock. No straw hat circuit. No dinner theater. (A few exceptions, here and there for those of you who embrace the trees and can't see the forest.)

Actors used to legitimately call themselves actors because they worked in the business at least six months a year. Summer stock, back to the city, dinner theater, back to NYC, Summer stock, again. Throw in some children's theater work, or off-off-Broadway showcase work to do while in the city and working a day job. Almost all of it is gone. What's left is not in sufficient supply for talented newcomers to develop talent and learn the craft. That's on the end of the business where people are trying to enter it.

At the top, there is damned little to keep anyone in the theater. In the past 10 years, Bernadette Peters has been on Broadway three times, twice as a replacement, for a total of only about 18 months. And before that, there was a gap of six years between Broadway appearances.

It's been a life time since we had anything that compared to Carol Channing starring in "Hello, Dolly!" on Broadway while Mary Martin was touring it in the US and then abroad. The theater can't do that anymore for its very best performers. Ergo, it doesn't get the best performers and the good ones it does get, it no longer develops.

RUTHLESS!

I saw the original Ruthless! and Laura Bell Bundy was fucking brilliant. Chilling and hilarious.

"Back off, Sylvia! I've killed before!"

My friend worked on the show and told me two stories I still remember. 1. LBB’s mom was the ultimate stage mother. One night Laura wasn’t feeling well and the stage manager wanted to put understudy Britney Spears on. Her mom refused and Laura went on. 2. LBB and her mom took a Christmas holiday to go back home and celebrate with family so Britney would fill in. At the last minute Britney’s mom said fuck this and they left town. I think they got Natalie Portman to fill in.

Bernadette...

Joan Ryan...the original

Is It Still Broadway If It’s Hosted by Tina Fey and Aired on NBC?

Yeah, it was disappointing that some unknown guy sang Oh What a Beautiful Mornin' last night instead of Damon Daunno. Is he missing in action? Hope he's ok.

Lana Jean Gordon is the best Velma the show has had in quite a long time.

[quote]Lana Jean Gordon is the best Velma the show has had in quite a long time.

She made me think of Mamie Duncan Gibbs, who was fantastic, [r275].

I saw a great production of Ruthless in Los Angeles about 17 years ago at a small theater. It was hilarious. I tried watching that production posted above when I was a BroadwayHD subscriber and I made it through about 15 minutes and turned it off. It is relentlessly awful.

Ruthless is from the days when off-Broadway was doing excellent work.

R256, I generally hate jukebox shows, but I also hate your smugly superior attitude. I thought most of the performances in the NBC-TV "One Night Only" show were good to excellent. Adios!

[quote]A clip of the young Jean Valjean understudy who tragically died during the run of the recent Les Mis revival recently popped up on my YouTube feed. What were they thinking. Too young. Way too young. He looked like he was doing Les Mis light in junior high. How on earth did he get cast? Did the creative team cast a young black man because it was PC? What about talent and being the right fit for a role.

Whatever their reason(s) for casting him, even as an understudy, they obviously weren't good reasons. But that whole production was terrible, especially insofar as the direction and casting, so I guess no big surprise in that respect.

[quote]Yeah, it was disappointing that some unknown guy sang Oh What a Beautiful Mornin' last night instead of Damon Daunno. Is he missing in action? Hope he's ok.

I enjoyed that performance, but I too hope Damon Daunno is okay. He was one of the few good things about that desecration of OKLAHOMA!

For absolutely no reason...

[quote]Anyone watching NBC's tribute to Broadway tonight?

Just got finished watching it. I was shocked at how awful that song from "Diana" was. I mean -- just flat out embarrassing lyrics.

Didn’t they film Diana for Netflix?

If so, the people from "The Prom" will be breathing easier.

Just want to add that I and my group saw Ruthless when it was playing on Seventh Avenue South off Broadway and we laughed our asses off throughout the show. It was such a mad and wonderful mash up of Gypsy and The Bad Seed and a couple of other shows/films. Have no idea who was in it when we saw it but it was so much fun.

Ann Morrison

r230 no I don't no a lot about music.

They hired Faye Dunaway for the role. Do you really think the expected her to belt out the songs a la Buckley etc? She had never sung before.

Cher had singing experience. Not saying she would have done well in the role but she did show interest in it and was pursued by the Toronto producers.

R235: Gemma Jones should play Mrs. Hobday.

Is there a thread on the NBC One Night Only event? What a mess. Besides majorly featuring three jukebox musicals, one of which isn’t even on Broadway (before or after lockdown), there were no performances from Phantom (the longest running Broadway musical ever) nor Hamilton (the biggest hit). Perhaps ALW and Lin-Manuel did not want to be associated with this nightmare. It was incredibly depressing. Bob Fosse must be rolling in his grave with the fat Chicago presentations. It’s understandable chorus boys gained weight, but those two flanking the overeager Velma were not at their best, not to mention black Chrissy Metz Mama. It was a bad representation of Broadway, but maybe accurate? The only thing worse was the angry lesbian Jagged Little Pill moments. I can’t even imagine what middle America thought, nor does it matter, but it was horrible. I honestly hoped it would be inspiring but instead it was insipid. Too bad.

An all-fat version of [italic]A Chorus Line[/italic]. Can you imagine that?

I was underwhelmed by the NBC Bway special as well, despite the good intentions. I never, ever need to see those casts of JERSEY BOYS or CHICAGO (2 shows I'd previously enjoyed) perform anywhere. It was also disheartening to hear BAD new show music: the DIANA song was dire. And I'd not seen or heard MEAN GIRLS before: the songs aren't awful, but they're not any good, either. I'm pretty familiar with Alanis so JLP was no surprise to me. While the dude singing number of OKLAHOMA wasn't a voice for the ages, it had a sincerity and warmth lacking in so many of the other numbers.

What's to say about the GRINCH musical? An odd, lifeless production of a truly terrible show. (Dennis O'Hare really tried, at least.)

Stick with the 1966 classic.

Jesus, the actress playing the lead high school lesbian in the Netflix Prom is 24, and her girlfriend is 29 in real life. Couldn’t Ryan Murphy find more age-appropriate actresses?

And Ethel Merman was 38 when she opened "Annie Get Your Gun," despite the fact that Annie actually beat Frank Butler at a sharp shooting contest when she was only 15 years old. Annie, Frank, and Buffalo Bill's Wild West Show toured Europe when she was only 25. Still, somehow, Ethel made a hit of it. Probably has something to do with talent.

Let the actors act. It's not bad when actors have some range. It's a good thing. They already have too few opportunities. Stop limiting them even further.

but in [italic]AGYG[/italic] it's not an actual story or plot point that it's high school. Sure, Annie may have been younger in real life, but is it essential to the story? Citing historical details misrepresented in musicals seems like a pedantic fools errand. But, hey, it's DataLounge.

It’s easier to play younger on stage than screen. Those actresses playing teens may have pulled it off on broadway but the camera doesn’t lie.

[quote]Sure, Annie may have been younger in real life, but is it essential to the story?

Annie's entire romantic relationship with Frank makes a bit of sense if Annie is 18. Well, maybe 16. But not for a 38 year old woman. For a 38 year old woman to be that inept suggests problems. But that didn't stop Ethel from turning the role into a career milestone.

A 24 year old playing a high school student is not a such a stretch that it should be disqualifying. Terri White wasn't the oldest woman in the world when she played the oldest woman in the world.

With Mean Girls, Jagged, Evan Hansen, Harry Potter, etc. ,way too many grown-ass actors are playing high school age. There are way too many high school characters on Broadway.

[quote]There are way too many high school characters on Broadway.

THAT is a real problem. Hiring young adults to play them 8x a week is just an inevitability.

The legitimate theatre has been age-blind to casting since 47 year old Titarope Vachliotis created the role of teenaged Antigone in 441 BC.

The ceramic clay mask helped.

The original Madame Butterfly was 32 when she first played the part.

Butterfly is 15 in the first act, 18 in the second.

And then there’s always Rizzo

R294, John Gielguds letters describe how ridiculous Mary Martin looked in Sound of Music. I think the ability of older actors to look young has been long overestimated.

You didn't go to Broadway to see Mary and Ethel play teenagers. You went to Broadway to see Mary Martin and Ethel Merman. Period.

And think of Granny Got Her Gun in the late 60's. Ethel was old, but it was still far better to see her do the role then than any teenager at the time.

I’ve seen four Butterflies live, and none of them were younger than 40

I don’t think it’s even physically possible for a fifteen-year old to sing that score

Why, yes, r289...

POSSIBLE SPOILER TO A OVER 40 YEAR OLD MUSICAL

Sweeney Todd question for you... I just listened to a podcast about it and I am not super familiar with it... When the judge raped Sweeney's wife, is it possible or is it implied that Johanna is the result of that encounter?

No, R305, Johanna had already been born when the Judge raped Sweeney's wife.

re: The NBC special -- what's the story with the Spanish "A Chorus Line," and why was Antonio Banderas dancing in it? Was that archival footage? Is it actually coming to Broadway?

R307, Google is your friend.

r306

thanks

I was confused about their singing "One' in English, though. And kept thinking it would be cooler to have had it in Spanish—interesting, and reinforcing the universal appeal of Broadway (or at least the Broadway of 45 years ago).

Incidentally, why did both Mary Martin and Julie Andrews both sport a butch haircut as Maria Von Trapp? The real Maria had long hair and wore it similarly to how Carrie Underwood did in that Live! special a few years back.

[quote]Incidentally, why did both Mary Martin and Julie Andrews both sport a butch haircut as Maria Von Trapp?

I can't tell you why Julie did, but while Mary was doing "The Sound of Music" in the evenings in 1960, she was videotaping her third and final production of "Peter Pan" for broadcast on NBC.

R299: I think it's funny that Stockard (Class of '61) was already a sophomore in high school during the 1958-1959 school year, when Grease takes place. I wonder what she thought of being in her thirties and playing a HS senior?

R313 What do you mean?

R313 What do you mean?

Honestly, if you looked at the senior photos of any high school year book from the late 1950s, most every student looked like they could have been 30. I wish I was clever enough to post a link but I'm sure someone will to prove my point.

Mary wore a braid in top of her head. Julie looks better with short hair.

Didn't Julie sport the same anachronistically short bob in THe Americanization of Emily which IIRC took place during WWII? And wasn't that shot before SOM?

This might be a long shot, but does anyone have the Audra McDonald episode of Live From Lincoln Center (from around 2014 I think?) saved and could share it? It used to all be up on YouTube and the PBS website but has been taken down except for one or two performances, and I would love to see it again.

damn,, karen walking down those stairs as a nuts film star was pretty god dam awesome !

[quote]I wonder what she thought of being in her thirties and playing a HS senior?

I was thinking about how long it would take the check to clear.

[quote]Didn't Julie sport the same anachronistically short bob in THe Americanization of Emily which IIRC took place during WWII?

Julie tried to make that bob a fashion statement, just like later the "Farrah" and the "Jennifer Anniston".

Stockard was probably thinking that at least it wasn't The Big Bus.

Then why didn't she call it the "Julie"?

Julie and gal-pal Carol have always been advocates of sassy, lesbionic hair.

Now and forever.

R291, this is the same Ryan Murphy who cast HS students on “Glee” who looked older than their teachers.

I think Fox/Wise must have wanted Maria not to have worn the braid on top of her head because they didn’t want her to resemble Lotte Lenya as Rosa Klebb in From Russia With Love. They must have also wanted an attractiveky tomboyish look for Maria, which I think was a very smart move.

[quote]They must have also wanted an attractiveky tomboyish look for Maria, which I think was a very smart move.

Which is funny because Maria von Trapp said that neither Martin nor Andrews were tomboyish enough. Apparently, she was quite scrappy.

The hair was part of Julie's *look*.

[quote] Which is funny because Maria von Trapp said that neither Martin nor Andrews were tomboyish enough. Apparently, she was quite scrappy.

Petula Clark followed the same template when she played Maria in the West End in 1981, though this was after letting her hair grow out again after her "Downtown" days of Tony Hatch hits.

What about an up-do on Julie?

More traditionally "femme" hair never really worked for Julie, with her long, strong face....

....and that forehead.

(I believe that's actually a custom wig at R332.)

Girl, that's not your look.

Custom wigs for STAR.

[quote]I think Fox/Wise must have wanted Maria not to have worn the braid on top of her head because they didn’t want her to resemble Lotte Lenya as Rosa Klebb in From Russia With Love. They must have also wanted an attractively tomboyish look for Maria, which I think was a very smart move.

Yes. I have no idea if there's any defense for Julie's SOUND OF MUSIC hairstyle in terms of period accuracy, but it does look great on her, and also it's good for the character because she is supposed to be tomboyish and a non-conventional, anti-authoritarian free spirit. Also, maybe we can justify a short hairstyle because she so often had to have her head covered by a wimple.

And though Maria is only still a postulant, the short unfussy bob seems to suggest a no-fuss hair-do appropriate to a woman devoting her life to God. Wouldn't she eventually be cutting it that short, anyway when she took her vows?

Also, Rosa Klebb (Lotte Lenya) did not have a braid as part of her hair-do. It was actually not unlike exactly what Julie's was like at that time in her career.

Like Rob Ashford, Ryan Murphy has that annoying habit of only casting young, talentless actors he wants to fuck.

[quote]Like Rob Ashford, Ryan Murphy has that annoying habit of only casting young, talentless actors he wants to fuck.

Presumably, you don't feel that applies to the women as well.....?

Honey, NOBODY wants to fuck Lea Michele.

I'd sooner die, R340.

Jesus Christ! Have any of you ever tried to wear long hair under a wimple?

r341...

This weekend's Decades Marathon...FAMILY. Poor alcoholic Penny Fuller!!!

JULIE is lezzy, that lady wrote bout how julie seduced her and dated her in nyc when she was doin som bway show....i mean just look at her, and she married flamer blake edwards.

saw her in victor/victoria on bway...BAD. OFF NITE MAYBE

The best part of the Pet Clark SOM was Honor Blackman as the cunty Baroness.

saw pet clark on tour of S blvd.....piss poor

Dame Jules ate Carol Burnett’s quivering quim for many a year.

[quote] early in her career, as early as the original CHICAGO, Liza became known as someone who could be counted on to come into a show for a brief period and boos the box office but could not be counted on for an extended run in a show, due to her absentee record.

Uh ... what absentee record? Liza went into Chicago, famously, for a few weeks, filling in for Verdon. She didn’t miss a single performance, nor did she have a reputation for missing in her few prior NY gigs (Flora the Red Menace & Best Foot Forward).

It wasn’t until The Act that she had some attendance issues, but not many. The Rink was the show where her drug use got in the way, and she missed many performances as well as the recording session. (She did her vocals later).

She missed MANY performances of The Act sometimes canceling minutes before the performance was to begin sending angry audience members to the box office for refunds. They also shut the show down for a month while she got treatment at Betty Ford. She had an understudy in The Rink so at least the show went on without her.

Understudy DL fave Lenora Nemetz?

Wasn't THE RINK the show with a Halston-designed wardrobe that included little "snack pockets" for cocaine, per Liza's specifications? Easy access during those quick set changes, darling.

Ummm, r350, The Act was 1977-78 and she entered Betty Ford in 1984 (during The Rink).

R349, that's what I meant. AFTER she went into CHICAGO, Liza developed absentee issues in such shows as THE ACT and THE RINK, to the point where producers became wary of her ability to sustain eight performances a week in an open-ended run. So it was felt that a brief run in VICTOR/VICTORIA as a temp replacement for Julie was a good situation for her.

[quite]So it was felt that a brief run in VICTOR/VICTORIA as a temp replacement for Julie was a good situation for her.

Which was a stupid idea because even Julie had a difficult time in that show. Liza wasn’t able to make all performances. I think she bailed out of most of the last week.

Bitch.

And as someone said at the time, she looked just like Mr. Moneybags from Monopoly when in male drag.

Theoni Aldredge designed the costumes for The Rink but Liza was unhappy with her and them and brought in Halston to redesign hers, which he did for no credit. I have no idea if he ever got paid.

I saw a bootleg of THE RINK. Not sure who Liza was wearing, but she looked dumpy and hideous. It was an ugly production, overall.

R353. You’re right! But they did close down the show either to give her time to recover from the flu or she went into rehab. But they did shut it down because my folks had tix and had to rebook. Halston designed sparkly curtain call costumes for The Rink but that’s it. Liza wore the same drab jeans and shirt for the rest of the show. Liza bailed on the final week of V/V and the standby stepped in. She was a mess for most of the run and Tony Roberts walked out until she was gone.

Years ago (mid-1990s) I was invited to a reading MTC did of The Rink with Dorothy Loudon as the mother and a young actress named Julie Johnson in the Liza role. Joe Mantello directed it though IIRC it was mostly unstaged. I think they were just trying to appease Terrence McNally whose Love! Valour! Compassion! was running at the time. I hadn't seen the original production but remember enjoying the reading quite a bit. Dorothy was fabulous!

The Rink was a lousy show. The book was dreadful. Some of the abusive male characters were laughable. Chita worked so fucking hard but her songs were crap. Liza was out constantly or went on stoned. Her standby Lenora Nemetz quit. Stockard Channing jumped into the show early when Liza finally threw in the towel and headed to Betty Ford.

I'm always surprised by how many musicals Stockard has done. She doesn't have much of a voice and was always replacing people like Lucie Arnaz or Liza that have pretty solid voices. She was fine enough to handle her songs in Grease, but I can't imagine her handling a singing role in a Broadway show like that.

She didn't finally throw in the towel, r362. Lorna had to lure her there with the promise of a hot dog.

The Rink

R364 OH YES! Forgot about that

R363. I saw Stockard. Voice was way too thin for The Rink but fine for They’re Playing Our Song.

If Liza had done They’re Playing Our Song who would have been her co-star? It sure wouldn’t have been Robert Klein. Maybe someone British?

Jason Alexander was in the chorus of The Rink. Did he ever tell any stories?

Who would you all consider the worst multiple Tony nominee? Off the top of my head, I would say Sarah Stiles. But I'm sure I could come up with some other names.

R369 Hardly 'chorus'.

Worst multiple Tony nominee?

Jane Greenwood, hands down, Dreadful woman who couldn't design a paper bag. They finally had to give her a Tony in sympathy after 20+ nominations.

Ann and Jane are friends, r372. Jane's a lovely woman to work with. She seems to be the type to get the job done effectively, if not showily. She must be doing something right to have this resume.

[quote]Ann and Jane are friends

Yes, but are they good costume designers?

I heard at the time that Liza's performance in Chicago was so good it hastened Verdon's recovery.

[quote]This weekend's Decades Marathon...FAMILY. Poor alcoholic Penny Fuller!!!

And poor constipated Sada Thompson!

Arthur Laurents directed an early reading/workshop of The Rink and told everyone in his characteristic charming way all the problems that the show had... that they never ended up changing. No one could figure out “All The Children In A Row” is a dud, Chita’s rape scene was absurd and the characters were too mean? Did they just get A. J. Antoon (weht?) so he’d go along with whatever McNally, Kander & Ebb wanted? There is some good material in the score and the show actually has potential, but it seems no one addressed the issues so it was doomed to fail. I wonder if Laurents would have fixed it or made it bad in a different way?

[quote]I wonder if Laurents would have fixed it or made it bad in a different way?

The latter, I'm sure.

[quote] A. J. Antoon (weht?)

He died of AIDS in 1992

That Wallflower was a great number, terrific staging.

r377, "....no one addressed the issues so it was doomed to fail" is the theme of the American Musical Theatre of the past 50 years.

If Valens still has that Amadeus and can post, I'd be ever so grateful. xxo

Wasn't DL fave Mary Testa involved in The Rink somehow?

I could try to look it up but I’d rather ask here – what is the rink based on any existing story or material? It seems like such a strange, convoluted original subject

Yes, Mary Testa was Liza's US

How long before [italic]The Manchurian Candidate[/italic] becomes a musical?

[quote] I recall reading that Keith Baxter used to greet backstage visitors to his dressing room at "Sleuth" while he was in the nude.

I don't know why that might surprise anyone. A dressing room is where one takes off one's clothes and puts on other clothes and then later takes off those clothes and replaces them with another set of clothes. One does it four times a night every night and eight times on matinee days.

If people insist on visiting when the actor and the dresser while they are dressing in that dressing room they will very likely witness the actor dressing and /or undressing.

[quote]There is some good material in the score and the show actually has potential, but it seems no one addressed the issues so it was doomed to fail. I wonder if Laurents would have fixed it or made it bad in a different way?

It was the same with Nick & Nora. Great cast, looked good on paper, but Laurents couldn’t make the changes necessary to make it successful.

[quote] I’m assuming the intent was to say “I got fucked by Keith Baxter” since he is a top

Since WHO is a top, R13?

[quote]Who would you all consider the worst multiple Tony nominee?

Director Ivo van Hove (won once & nominated once)

Director Des McAnuff (won twice, 3 more noms)

How come they didn't ask Des McAnuff to direct the Donna Summer musical?

PS: Director Michael Mayer is a maybe for me: 1 win + 4 nominations. I don't think he's a bad director. I just don't think he's a really great one. Not ever.

Where are the great directors, particularly ones who can handle musicals and drama?

[quote] It’s just another form of bottom-shaming.

You mayn't like 'bottom-shaming' but it's not as bad as mangling the English Language.

You need to know what transitive verb is. A transitive verb is where A does something to B.

Yul Brynner tell us —

[quote]. "A girl is like a blossom, with honey for just one man. A man is like a honey bee and gather all he can.

To fly from blossom to blossom a honey must be free. But blossom must not ever fly from bee to bee to bee"

Des McAnuff did direct the Donna Summer musical. Very badly.

If I remember right, THE RINK wasn't an adaptation. Rewinding back a few posts to the idea of Liza in They're Playing Our Song, I'm wondering how the show would have worked with her opposite James Naughton (who would have finished I Love My Wife not too long before).

Peter Allen, of course!

Think of the follow-ups! Liza and Peter in SAME TIME, NEXT YEAR! Liza and Peter in TALLEY'S FOLLY! Liza and Peter reeallly stretching themselves with WHO'S AFRAID OF VIRGINIA WOOLF?

Gabe Kaplan *IS* Grouch Marx.

I really appreciate actors like Gabe Kaplan who knew when to wrap it up and leave the profession.

Lucie Arnaz loves to talk about how everyone wanted to play Sonia (Liza, Bette, Barbra, Cher) and they auditioned hundred of actresses but she got it. I don’t buy it. Also, John Rubenstein was originally cast as Vernon and was announced for the tryout but dropped out. Mimi Kennedy was Lucie’s standby in LA but dropped out for a tv series.

Lucie Arnaz probably would have won the Tony had Cameron brought in The Witches of Eastwick. I know Patrick Swayze was supposed to be the Broadway Darryl Van Horne, but it is strange that Cameron never brought it here anyway after that wildly over produced original West End version. The rewrite wasn’t great (which played in London) and certainly whatever they did after that was even worse. Nonetheless, the score is very entertaining and it’s a definite commercial vehicle. Witches are a win.

[quote]Lucie Arnaz loves to talk about how everyone wanted to play Sonia (Liza, Bette, Barbra, Cher)

I imagine Bette, Barbra and Cher were all on Marvin Hamlisch's wishlist, but none were actually going to commit to Broadway at that point in their career. Plus, I don't think Neil Simon would have approved Cher. Bette and Barbra could say his corny lines and get a laugh. Cher couldn't play his style of comedy. Her delivery is too tentative.

Dear God, Gabe Kaplan; there’s someone you don’t hear much about anymore. And for good reason. Doesn’t he play poker professionally now? Something like that.

No one would have wanted Cher for Playing Our Song. Remember how her name got a laugh when it appeared in the opening titles when Silkwood previewed?

No one knew she could act.

Would Lucie be cool with Cher doing her role in The Witches of Eastwick on Broadway? Obviously, Cher did it first...

I wonder if Kelly Bishop was ever offered "They're Playing Our Song"? She was known on Broadway from A Chorus Line. And she had just made a minor splash in a supporting role in "An Unmarried Woman."

Nothing Kelly Bishop had done would have made her an obvious choice for Playing Our Song. She was not kooky enough.

If anything, Priscilla Lopez or Pamela Blair from Chorus Line would have seemed better matches for the role.

[quote]Nothing Kelly Bishop had done would have made her an obvious choice for Playing Our Song.

That's Tony Award Winner Kelly Bishop to you, bub!

Twenty years ago, right after her movie career quieted down, I could see Bette doing any number of Neil Simon plays. Plaza Suite, The Gingerbread Lady, Prisoner of Second Avenue ...

"The Gingerbread Lady" is not a good play. There's a reason it's never been revived.

The Gingerbread Lady was even worse as Only When I Laugh.

[quote]Cher couldn't play his style of comedy. Her delivery is too tentative.

I think she came through with a lot of spot-on, non-tentative comedic delivery on her TV show with Sonny, and for that matter in the movie MOONSTRUCK, to name only two examples. Plus, even if you don't like Neil Simon's writing, I don't think it's accurate to describe it as "corny."

Keith Baxter, like other actors, dressed and undressed in his dressing room. However, he was known for taking his time after undressing at the end of the performance and just relaxing in the nude as visitors came to greet him. Others might cover up, or take a shower, or be seen as they got dressed, but he just was happy to be au naturel and take his time getting dressed.

So who else besides Lucie Arnaz *did* audition for Sonia in “They’re Playing Our Song”? Who did she actually win the role over?

Ellen Greene probably auditioned since she got the lead in the start of the first tour. She had a Tony nomination and a bit of a name back then.

Lucie discussing her audition:

I could imagine Michelle Lee being offered the role of Sonia before Lucie.

[quote] Keith Baxter, like other actors, dressed and undressed in his dressing room. However, he was known for taking his time after undressing at the end of the performance and just relaxing in the nude as visitors came to greet him. Others might cover up, or take a shower, or be seen as they got dressed, but he just was happy to be au naturel and take his time getting dressed.

Fair enough.

He replaced Anthony Perkins in "Romantic Comedy" on Broadway.

I think his nude scene was supposedly move explicit than Perkins'.

Robin Klein was painful to watch on stage. Truly painful.

Not as painful as seeing the WITCHES OF EASTWICK in London. Shite, that one was a turkey. I should have fled at the interval.

Simone Signoret was painfully inaudible as Lady Macbeth in London. I had to flee at the interval.

Rita put the Chinese peg in, me all bounded up, then left... how to go on?

Tony Perkins LOVED being nude onstage in Romantic Comedy. He was very fit with a lean, muscular body. Always kept his back to the audience but at one point sat on a desk with his naked ass. He had nothing to be ashamed of and he was really great in the part.

I think Michelle Lee was to old to play Sonia.

I saw ROMANTIC COMEDY in previews, sitting stage left close to the stage. Perkins came in naked with a large portfolio covering him, but from where I was seated, he basically flashed us without realizing. Fun times.

[quote]I think she came through with a lot of spot-on, non-tentative comedic delivery on her TV show with Sonny, and for that matter in the movie MOONSTRUCK, to name only two examples.

I didn’t mean the tentative remark as an insult. Cher always had a wry style of delivery. It is very laid back. Part of the comedy in a Neil Simon show is how much angst the character has. His style is rapid angst. Bette Midler and Barbra Streisand both built their careers on that rapid angst comic style.

R426 oh I’m sure he grabbed every opportunity to flash the audience.

That's interesting, r400. I imagine Mimi sounded a bit like Helen Reddy as well...

"Dirty Laundry" from Witches of Eastwick was second only to some of the moments in CARRIE. So awful it was thrilling.

Well, let's see...

So many questions, R431!

What decade are we in, exactly? (Do they know?)

Why is Eastwick entirely populated by fat and/or transgendered people?

What "special needs" child created that choreography?

[quote]I didn’t mean the tentative remark as an insult. Cher always had a wry style of delivery. It is very laid back.

No, not "always." Do you think her comic delivery was "wry" or "laid back" when she played that Laverne character on THE SONNY AND CHER SHOW? Do you feel it was "wry" when she slapped Nicolas Cage and shouted "Snap out of it!" in MOONSTRUCK, or in those scenes where she was yelling at Danny Aiello? Cher is a good actress who can tailor her style of comic delivery to what's required by the script and the character. I'm sure she would have been fine in a Neil Simon comedy if she had ever attempted one.

We had a Witches of Eastwick discussion a few threads ago - maybe it can become the new Follies.

I was 17 when the first production opened and it was the first musical where I found myself becoming a fan of a show, and I still think of it with great fondness. I saw both versions several times, including the final night of the original cast as well as the final London performance a few months later. I'm not sure from which production R431's video might be, but the one below is a recording of the Australian production, which I think was a copy of the revised London version and features the original Bob Avian choreography. My recollection, via the naive criticality of my youth, is that when the cast was firing on all cylinders it was a pretty great show. But seeing this Australian video made me think that it is less than the sum of its parts. The end of the first act is still wonderful, even if the whole endeavour feels like a special effect in search of a musical.

There was a production in Stockholm at the end of last year that involved a lot of UK creatives, and I think the assumption was that it would later transfer to London. But then this year happened, so I can't imagine it'll be happening anytime soon.

R 433, Moonstruck was still years away and LaVerne--the character was a grotesque so I seriously doubt anyone watching it would say, "She would be great tossing off Neil Simon quips."

I think Anita Gillette was too fat to play Sonia.

Wasn't there a production of Witches of Eastwick done at the Signature in DC about 10 years ago? I think Mark Kudisch was the male lead though I don't know who the women were. Was it directed by the since disgraced Eric Schaffer? Wonder if this was a new rewrite or what London saw. In any case, it didn't propel the show any closer to Broadway. Anyone see it?

Michele Lee and Anita Gillette were Broadway ingenues of the early 1960s, not the late 1970s.

If only someone had talked Kelly Bishop out of replacing Stockard (temporarily, thank God) in "Six Degrees Of Separation". She was a fucking train wreck.

Wasn't Kelly Bishop in another role in "Six Degrees" originally? And Stockard was a replacement. Blythe Danner had the part originally and quit/was fired in rehearsals.

"Witches of Eastwick" end of Act One, original London cast

Blythe quit 6 Degrees after just a day or two of rehearsals, citing "family issues." God only knows....

[quote]I think Mark Kudisch was the male lead though I don't know who the women were

Emily Skinner was one of them. This was in her "big as a house" period. She sounded great, acted well, but was fat. She was Alexandra, the sculptor. Christiane Noll and Jacquelyn Piro Donovan were the other two. (Skinner has, of course, lost all the fat and then some, and looks quite lovely at 50).

It's sad that Marc Kudisch didn't make it big while he still had his looks.

Bishop was one of the friends of the main couple and the understudy for Ouisa. She went on several times for Stockard. The first time we had tix for the show, Channing was out and we exchanged them for another date. Had I known it was Kelly Bishop, I would have stayed and come back to see it a second time with Channing. I love them both.

I actually do think Michele Lee could have pulled off playing Sonia back in '79. She was 37 and looked great. Hell, Stockard Channing is only two years younger than her and she did it.

Also, Sonia isn't really much of an ingenue.

Emily Skinner, post-fat

[quote]How long before The Manchurian Candidate becomes a musical?

I'm available!

Don't make fun of my Skinner. I love her. She was the only good thing in "the prince of Broadway"

If Sada Thompson's across-the-board great performances, were a result of constipation, I, for one, am glad she laid off the Ex-Lax.

I wish I could have seen her in Gamma Rays.

Did Sada Thompson ever play Sadie Thompson in Rain?

This is lovely...

What did Michael Bennett see her in that made him want Sada Thompson for Twigs? She was a more than competent dramatic actress but I never got her in those roles in that comedy.

[quote]Wasn't Kelly Bishop in another role in "Six Degrees" originally?

Yes, she played Stockard's best friend. And she has the best, most bitchy, line in the entire show.

Her husband is reading a newspaper:

Husband: It says that a homeless man froze to death last night in Central Park.

Wife (Kelly Bishop): Was it that cold?

That line totally summed up the circles that the parents ran in on the Upper East Side of Six Degrees of Separation.

Sad news. Ann Reinking has died. No link but choreographer Chase Brock just posted it on FB.

[quote]Sad news. Ann Reinking has died. No link but choreographer Chase Brock just posted it on FB.

Wikipedia has already been updated to reflect it. Those bitches are worse than DL about posting death notices.

Can we still blame Bobby Fosse's second hand smoke ?

r459

random question but was Ann a smoker as well... for some reason I can not picture her smoking

[quote]random question but was Ann a smoker as well... for some reason I can not picture her smoking

The dancer's diet is coffee and cigarettes. I'd be surprised if she didn't. At least in her early days.

is it true about poor Annie Reinking?

[quote]R 433, Moonstruck was still years away and LaVerne--the character was a grotesque so I seriously doubt anyone watching it would say, "She would be great tossing off Neil Simon quips."

I seriously doubt that you know what you're talking about. So you think that , when MOONSTRUCK came along, Cher suddenly developed the ability to play that kind of comedy? Why don't you just admit you're wrong?

I've been swimming in a sea of anarchy

I've been living on coffee and nicotine

I've been wondering if all the things I've seen were ever real

Were ever really happening

Marc Kudisch was quite boring in that revival of "Bells Are Ringing"; he did redeem himself by showing his ass in the Broadway "Wild Party" though, enough that a friend calls him Marc Tuchas ever after. He was pretty good in "Thoroughly Modern Millie".

Ann Reinking's final performance in NY "Chicago"

Ann Reinking as "Sweet Charity"

Ann Reinking as "Sweet Charity"

"Chicago" Broadway 1996 Press Reel

Wikipedia has removed the death date for Ann Reinking.

But Variety is reporting her death.

[quote]Wikipedia has removed the death date for Ann Reinking.

It was there about an hour ago, I swear!

Ann and Bebe in "Fosse"

Confirmed by family via Variety

I love this one from All That Jazz

"Chicago" at Encores! '96

Holy shit! Ann Reinking is dead.

So the niece's dance teacher just blabbed, before the family announced it?

Reinking's phenomenal lead dancing of Sing, Sing, Sing in Dancin' is forever burned into my brain. Outrageously sexy and heart-stopping. But I first noticed her in the ensemble of Pippin where she really stood out among all the other chorus people. And I loved her dancing in Over Here as well.

RIP a true Broadway star.

Haha, so sorry about my "Breaking News" post. For some reason, my DL had frozen and I was still somewhere at Emily Skinner when I heard about Ann.

WEHT to Rick Stear, best known from that awful production of Twelfth Night w/ Helen Cunt.

Blythe quit Six Degrees citing personal issues then turned around and accepted the role of Nick Nolte’s wife in Prince of Tides.

Blythe was fired.

Allowing her to "quit" was a courtesy.

Oh God, don't mention her name! When you do...she....AGHHHHH!!!

Jacki Weaver played Sonia in the first Australian production of TPOS.

Annie was a Goddess.

That's terrible about Ann Reinking. I wonder what happened? They just said on the news a minute ago that she died while visiting family, so one would assume she wasn't ill or else she wouldn't have been traveling, so perhaps something sudden like a heart attack?

Jacki Weaver is a talent-free cunt with an overbite the size of Ethel Merman's cunt.

Kelly Bishop actually took over from Stockard for the last few months of the run. I was sort of surprised they gave the role to her. She was too brittle for it and plus it seemed like the kind of role a star would jump to take (like Marlo Thomas did on for the tour. Kellly subbed for her a few weeks of the LA run for some reason.)

[quote] TPOS

I don't know what that is, R485, but I agree with R488's estimate on that small person's lack of talent.

R490 I believe it's THEY'RE PLAYING OUR SONG.

Jacki Weaver is a two-time Oscar-nominee, mind you.

Incidentally, do you think that the recent CATS movie will affect in a bad way future productions of SIX DEGREES OF SEPARATION.

^^ Why would it? "Six Degrees" was already treating the idea of a "Cats" movie as a joke many years before it actually was made and became a joke overnight.

[quote]. a two-time Oscar-nominee

Oscars are no longer a criteria of quality.

Some erudite man here says they became stupid in the year 1967.

R495 That was due to the whole counterculture thing that was going on at the time and continued on through the '70s, which is why there were many no shows during this period. However, in the '80s the Oscars came back with a vengeance and made the ceremony (and red carpet) bigger than it ever was.

If they make a movie outta Starlight Express, *then* SIX DEGREES is fucked.

I worked with Emily Skinner years ago, during the fat period. She was, how does one say....a total cunt.

Chase Brock is a ghastly 'choreographer.'

[quote]WEHT to Rick Stear, best known from that awful production of Twelfth Night w/ Helen Cunt.

I don't know, but he was definitely one of the most beautiful, sexiest men ever to hit Broadway. I seem to remember there was a scene in that TWELFTH NIGHT when he was shirtless and frolicking in a pool with Kyra Sedgwick. P.S. that production was directed by Nicholas Hytner, so......drawn your own conclusions.

[quote]Do you think that the recent CATS movie will affect in a bad way future productions of SIX DEGREES OF SEPARATION.

What will future productions in a bad way is Guare's writing. It does not hold up, as was proven by the swift closing of the Broadway revival.

I think the movie of Six Degrees holds up...a lot of it has to do with Stockard's performance.

The revival was crass and miscast. I remember one review basically saying John Benjamin Hickey made the character seem gay (and I'd add Janney makes everything she does seem kind of lesbianish.)

I was 13 when the movie came out and the main thing I recall is that Denzel Washington advised Will Smith not to seem 'too gay' nor kiss a man on-screen.

A shame Keith Baxter doesn't seem to have done any on-stage or on-screen nudity. He was quite hot.

He was nude in Romantic Comedy.

Anne Baxter was nude?

Keith Baxter was similar to and as handsome as Robert Stephens.

I hate the different spellings of Anne and Ann. Stick with one!

I hate the different spellings of Anne and Ann. Stick with one!

I hate the different spellings of British porn performer Aidan Ward and US porn performer Aiden Ward.

[quote]TPOS

Or it could stand for total piece of shit.

Which is interchangeable with Starlight Express.

Will Smith promised the producers of the film version SDOS he'd have no problem with the gay kiss, which is a crucial plot point near the end. When the day came to film, he refused. They had to shut down production for two days on that extremely tightly budgeted film to convince him to shoot the scene. And he never did the kiss -- just a shot from behind of him doing doing a close embrace.

It was his big film break and he fucked his producers. I've hated that closeted mo ever since.

[quote] I've hated that closeted mo…

Me too.

Robert Stephens and Maggie Smith were going through a particularly nasty divorce while appearing in the evenings in their London production of Private Lives. That must have been interesting.

When the production moved to New York a year later, Stephens was not involved, And it was the funniest thing I have ever seen on a New York stage. I literally slipped out of my seat into the aisle laughing (long story). Smith would bring down the house with a single arch of an eyebrow.

Give a great artist a great script and then go along for the ride.

great post r512: good combo of gossip and theatre-love. My favorite DL combo

I was fab in Sunset Blvd, r506!

[quote]I think the movie of Six Degrees holds up...a lot of it has to do with Stockard's performance.

I only saw the movie once when it was released, but I can see it holding up better than a stage revival, maybe because the movie is more obviously a period piece that was made more or less at the time when the action is supposed to be taking place.

[quote]Will Smith promised the producers of the film version of SDOS he'd have no problem with the gay kiss, which is a crucial plot point near the end. When the day came to film, he refused. They had to shut down production for two days on that extremely tightly budgeted film to convince him to shoot the scene. And he never did the kiss -- just a shot from behind of him doing doing a close embrace. It was his big film break and he fucked his producers. I've hated that closeted mo ever since.

I remember that story VERY well, and I too have hated WS since then. That said.....I do think there's a really nasty streak of homophobia in SIX DEGREES, so on that score, maybe it's not so bad that the sexuality of that character was downplayed. I guess you could say that I don't mind the kiss not being present, or at least not being obvious, even though I hate Smith's reasons for refusing to do it. And P.S., I too have heard and read that it was Denzel Washington who urged Smith not to do the kiss, something along the lines of, "If you want to have a career in Hollywood, you don't go kissing guys on screen."

[quote]The revival was crass and miscast.

The 6 DEGREES revival made little sense to me. Janney has a lot of fans from TV, but having seen her in the 9 TO 5 musical, she is hardly the First Lady of American Theatre. And she's not Ouisa, the character.

Hickey (an uneven talent at best) has no real name recognition and no fans that I'm aware of.

[quote]Hickey (an uneven talent at best) has no real name recognition and no fans that I'm aware of.

And yet, he apparently has an extremely high opinion of himself and his talents. Anyway, I'm sure the producers of that revival didn't feel they needed big box-office names in every role, and Hickey's role is certainly not one of the best in that play.

Janney is a wonderful stage actress when well cast. I'm not sure if the problem was that she was wrong for Ouisa, or just that the play is very dated and the production was problematic in general.

I worked with Skinner two years ago. She's a total delight. Whatever she's been through, she's through it.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Skinner put on a tremendous amount of weight during the original brief Side Show. By the last performance she was literally busting out of her costumes. She also missed a number of performances and her standby was meh. Very sad to watch but she certainly has pulled herself together and her career is back on track.

On paper Janet seemed like good casting to me: articulate, able to play intelligent and patrician, and really good onstage. And yet the portrayal and the production were bland and boring. I blame the director. Cullman is hit-or-miss at best.

Janney, damn it, autocorrect

Or rather, R522: dammit Janet?

Alice told a funny story about the Egyptian number, r520. Emily had missed the matinee. It's a really quick costume/wig change before they got into the onstage sarcophagus. That evening, they rush off stage to do the change and Emily's trying to squeeze into her costume and they realize it's the (smaller) U/S's costume from the matinee. They had to rush upstairs and get Emily's all the while the orchestra was vamping...and vamping. Anyway, it was funny when Alice told it.

I really hate to say this, and I could be wrong, but I think the main reason why the original SIDE SHOW closed so quickly was due to Skinner's absences. She and Ripley had gotten so much publicity as a team in the reviews, etc., but then she started to miss lots of performances for whatever reason(s), and I don't think anyone wanted to see the show with a cover in either of those two roles. I believe Skinner continued to have a pretty bad track record as far as missing performances for several years after that, such as in James Joyce's THE DEAD.

I disagree, r525. It was a special show to a certain audience. There were those of us who loved it and those that definitely...didn't. I don't think it was going to have a long run, regardless of a missing Emily.

Did [italic]Animaniacs[/italic] even ask Bernadette Peters if she wanted to play Rita again?

SMILE!

I thought it was tasteless the way they interpolated "Tunnel of Love" into the new Diana musical.

AsSkinner wasn’t fat in “The Full Monty,” which was in 2000-2001. I know she missed performances then, but she was on when I saw it (the whole cast was), and she was great.

I think she was fighting some real emotional demons back then, but she obviously conquered them and she looks fabulous now and I second the fact that she’s, as someone earlier said, a total delight.

[quote]I disagree, [R525]. It was a special show to a certain audience. There were those of us who loved it and those that definitely...didn't. I don't think it was going to have a long run, regardless of a missing Emily.

I do agree that SIDE SHOW is not for everyone and probably would not have been a really long-runner under any circumstances, but I certainly think it would have and could have run a LOT longer than three months if Emily hadn't started missing so many performances. I think there was quite a lot of interest in the show because of the fascinating subject matter and the gimmick, or whatever, of having two actors play conjoined twins. Plus, as I recall, the NY Times review was for the most part a rave, and of course it focused on the team of Alice and Emily, which is why I stand by my statement that almost nobody wanted to see the show without both of them. I'm really surprised you disagree with this, because the more I think about it, the more obvious it seems to me.

I think Side Show failed due to the "on a budget" physical production, the clanking, clunking inadequate lyrics, and the overhyped director-choreographer who got progressively worse with each subsequent production. It did have a wonderful cast, delivering its inanities with complete conviction.

Simple. No one at all wanted to see a musical about conjoined twins. Makes [italic]Sweeney[/italic] and [italic]Evita[/italic] seem like delightful song-and-dance subjects.

[quote]I think Side Show failed due to the "on a budget" physical production, the clanking, clunking inadequate lyrics, and the overhyped director-choreographer who got progressively worse with each subsequent production.

Well, yes, that pathetic director-choreographer was largely responsible for whatever failings the show itself had, but I'm still convinced that Emily's very frequent absences were the overwhelming reason for the show's quick closing. By the way, that director-choreographer is/was SO pathetic that he later made a hash of revivals of two shows that no one thought could ever miss, DREAMGIRLS and BYE BYE BIRDIE.

Well, if by "a lot longer" you mean maybe a year, r531, I'd agree with that.

Also, r531, I certainly agree that a big part of the show's appeal was seeing Alice and Emily together.

Most of Side Show’s score is mediocre at best.

But, damn, those numbers that close the two acts are amazing.

One of my most prized possessions...

I saw Emily in Full Monty. She was heavy but her costumes hid the girth.

[quote]Well, if by "a lot longer" you mean maybe a year, [R531], I'd agree with that.

Yes, exactly. Who knows, but I think if Emily had been able to sustain a good attendance record, the show probably would have had a healthy run at least until she and/or Alice left. And yes, in my book, a year is a lot longer than three months. Four times as long, in fact :-)

Great, we have an Emily Skinner loon.

Oh hush, r541. Feel free to change the subject to Irra Petina.

Ripley and Skinner weren’t involved in the revival, and that ran for even less.

It’s a show with a very devoted fanbase. But evidently of little interest to broader audiences (at least at Broadway prices).

Listen- if Irra Petina had been in Flahooley, it would still be running today. No one wanted to see Barbara Cook. No one. I tell you, years!

Oh, no! Tetrazzini is DEAD to me!!!

[quote]Ripley and Skinner weren’t involved in the revival, and that ran for even less.

I was waiting for someone to say this. I don't believe the revival had the tremendous interest or the rave NY Times review that the original production had, and also, I think by that time the concept of the show was considered no longer fresh and original (even though so few people saw it the first time).

The revival was awful. The leads were merely competent and the production was way overblown.

Emily is good in all-American good-time gal roles but she was dreadful as The Countess in a production of A Little Night Music I saw at San Francisco's ACT a few years ago starring DL fave Karen Ziemba as Desiree. Emily delivered every line as a zinger with a shit-eating grin and a Texas twang. Even her Lucy Ball in Cher had that bad quality.

She would have been a perfect Annie Oakley 20 years ago.

Donna McKechnie is/was too bland for Roxie.

She can't act, Zak.

That would have been a great role for her, r548.

I saw act one of the last workshop of SideShow and was shocked it ever opened. It took a fascinating story and tried so hard to make it PC and palatable and cutesy.

Has anyone ever seen the other musical about the Hilton Sisters? Twenty Fingers Twenty Toes?

I am always fascinated that Greg Barnes designed two musicals about the Hiltons.

Years ago I complimented Greg Barnes on his costumes for Side Show and the Paper Mill FOLLIES. He said those two shows were the zenith and the nadir of his career.

SIDESHOW was just not successful enough in the writing. And when they tried to "fix" it for the revival, it got even worse. It will always be a beloved, but deeply flawed, jewel.

Skinner was *not* responsible for the closing of Side Show. It had its rabid fans (one is on here, obviously), but it did not get great reviews. In fact, that was a scandal - Frank Rich gave it a good review that many though was undeserved. The "rumor" was that Bobby Longbottom has serviced Rich well and good for that review, because the show didn't deserve it. But Rich is/was straight, so ... it's just a rumor.

Basically, as has already been stated, no one wanted to see it. It's lack of appeal as a subject was confirmed when no one wanted to see the revival, either.

[quote]She can't act, Zak.

Yeah, she can. I saw her in "Do I Hear a Waltz" in SF. The production was so-so, but she was wonderful. Too bad Encores didn't use her, because she was much better than Melissa Errico was. I saw the Night Music, too. Skinner was wrong for Charlotte, but not nearly as wrong as Ziemba was for Desiree. The most wrong, though, was Paolo Montalbán, who was laughably bad as Carl-Magnus. I don't know who thought that was a good idea. Mark Lamos was the director, and he tried to make the whole thing about sex which it is, but not sleazy, which he is. It was awful, but bad as it was, it wasn't as bad as the Trevor Nunn version.

[quote]Oh, no! Tetrazzini is DEAD to me!!!

Who gets custody of her chicken?

[quote] It had its rabid fans (one is on here, obviously), but it did not get great reviews. In fact, that was a scandal - Frank Rich gave it a good review that many though was undeserved. The "rumor" was that Bobby Longbottom has serviced Rich well and good for that review, because the show didn't deserve it. But Rich is/was straight, so ... it's just a rumor.

Ben Brantley reviewed Side Show in 1997. Rich had left the theatre beat in 1994, but remained at the paper and still wielded considerable power over the theatre section. There were those rumors implying some sort of sexual relationship, but Longbottom seemed more like Rich's pet project as a supposed heir apparent to Michael Bennett. There was talk that Brantley - still fairly new to the role of chief drama critic - was pressured into writing a rave for Side Show at Rich's urging.

Thanks, r558. I knew Rich was connected to it, and to Longbottom, somehow. But that was definitely the rumor - sex between Longbottom and Rich with a good Times review payoff - and I got it from an impeccable Broadway source (but everyone else was talking about it, too).

One more poster here to reaffirm that Side Show's failure was mainly due to the unappetizing subject matter. And gussying it up with a lot of Gregg Barnes' beaded gowns was not the way to solve that. The tone of the production was seriously uneven and uncertain. It had nothing to do with Emily Skinner's absences.

The Tunnel of Love was a camp classic and cut for the revival of SS.

R466, as it turned out, that wasn't Reinking's final performance in "Chicago." In Jan 1998, Bebe was off for a week shooting an episode of "Frasier." Marilu Henner was playing Roxie, but a nasty flu hit the cast. Nancy Hess, who was the top Roxie US, was already playing Velma for Bebe. Reinking came in and agreed to go on for Roxie so the show wouldn't have two understudies in the leads. I saw that performance. I'm pretty sure she did others during those few days that Bebe was gone and Henner was sick.

I'm probably the rabid fan that r555 is referring to, r560, and I agree with everything you said.

Ann also filled is as Roxie on tour when Sandy Duncan hurt her ankle prior to broadway. A friend saw it and said Ann had put on weight and only played a few performances before the understudy took over.

Henner was *ever* so underwhelming. But at least I got to see Bebe!

[quote] I got it from an impeccable Broadway source

r559 if there [italic]was[/italic] sex between Longbottom and Rich (which is highly doubtful), it happened in private between those two people. I don't care how impeccable your "source" was, the odds of anyone knowing about it are slim to none

I love reading the loving tributes to Ann. There will be very few for Bebe.

I thought the relationship between Frank Rich and Longbottom was one of mentor/mentee. That somehow they were old acquaintances(maybe from Washington DC?) and Frank had given him directorial and dramaturgical advice, if not on Side Show then on earlier shows..

My favorite episode of L&O: Criminal Intent was the next to last, which was a "ripped from the headlines" send up of Julie Taymor and the whole Spiderman situation, with Cynthia Nixon doing an outrageous portrayal of the Taymor character.

At any rate, at one point one of the supporting characters introduces himself to the detectives as Nixon's dramaturg.

A dramaWHAT? says the detective.

Oh there will be plenty of tributes for Bebe as well. If there's one thing theater folks love, it's emoting over a tragedy.

Someone make it happen....

Is she going to swing over the pool table during But Alive?

Please. Jackee couldn't sell two tickets to a drag bingo night.

She would sell out a drag bingo night, r573.

Ann was one of the many joys of Over Here!, the first musical I saw on Broadway. I bought my ticket at the Times Square TKTS booth half price and it was front row mezzanine dead center. God, I loved New York in the 70s.

Were you ever mugged, R575? (And I'm not being sarcastic, I'm genuinely curious.)

Broadway in the 70s. Sigh. My balcony seat for Over Here! cost $4.50

I think this could be considered a holiday curiosity...

Yes, r576. More than once but not often. The first time was a shove in at my home on West Houston Street in the late 70s. I only had two dollars in my wallet which infuriated the two thugs attacking me. But I had a joint in my pocket which mollified them and they took it and left. I laughed my ass of because it was the worst grass I had ever bought in my entire life and I suspect it was oregano. There was virtually no high from it.

They were much more scared than I was so I was able to keep calming the scene down but yeah, I wasn't sure whether I was going to survive.

^ Meant to add that one of them did have a pistol he kept pointed at me so I really was scared initially but the two of them did turn out to be so stupid, scared and easily controlled. I was very lucky. Always.

Thanks for your response, R575. I often think how fun it would have been to be old enough to have lived in NYC back in the 70s (and if I had one wish, it would be to be able to have a time machine to experience such things), but I've always heard how absolutely dangerous the city was from the late 60s to the early 80s. I moved to NYC when I was 16 in the late 80s and lived there for 13 years and I used to be on the street at all hours and never had a problem (though I certainly saw some things). From the stories I've heard, the 70s were so much worse.

You're welcome, r581. People always post about how awful NYC was in the 1970s but in fact it was a glorious experience for a young gay man from the rural south. Go ahead and MARY! me.

[quote]Simple. No one at all wanted to see a musical about conjoined twins.

I'd love to see a musical about Bel Ami's The Peter Twins.

^ I'd pay for that!

[quote]One more poster here to reaffirm that Side Show's failure was mainly due to the unappetizing subject matter. And gussying it up with a lot of Gregg Barnes' beaded gowns was not the way to solve that. The tone of the production was seriously uneven and uncertain. It had nothing to do with Emily Skinner's absences.

It MAY have had nothing to do with it -- or it may have had A LOT to do with it. There's no way any of us can ever know for sure, so it amazes me that some of you are so adamant about it.

"Give a great artist a great script and then go along for the ride."

These days, you first have to get the director (and often the set designer too) out of the way. I'm so tired of inferior talents in those roles trying to upstage superior ones onstage.

Skinner may be thinner, but her poontang is still ginormous.

[quote] It MAY have had nothing to do with it -- or it may have had A LOT to do with it. There's no way any of us can ever know for sure, so it amazes me that some of you are so adamant about it.

You mean how several people have given you different reasons why Side Show failed, and you keep insisting that it was because the huge star Emily Skinner missed performances? Yeah, someone's adamant.

[quote]Skinner may be thinner, but her poontang is still ginormous.

Somehow r587, I believe you would have a great deal of trouble being certified as an expert on "poontang".

R587 is also an ass

So, which musicals will NOT reappear when this is all over?

HADESTOWN

MRS. DOUBTFIRE

TINA

AIN'T TOO PROUD

DIANA

CHICAGO

What else?

Great post r591. Would also be great if folks cite if it's a feeling or if they've actually heard anything.

My opinion is that Diana at this point might be contingent on how the Netflix thing goes. If it flops critically and whimpers away, it seems like it would be impossible to start up again.

I also think Ain't Too Proud will be back. It was really doing well, and the culture still wants it. They also seem to have gotten more visibility than most other shows during the shutdown.

The more “feel-good” a show is, the faster it will come back.

Feel-good but not too reliant on tourists?

The question might also be about the producers having enough money to resurrect a show that hadn't yet shown a profit, i.e. Hadestown, Mrs. Doubtfire, Tina, etc.

We’ll see the juggernauts first: Hamilton’s already announced. The Disney shows will be back.

Chicago, with its minuscule weekly nut and pre-sold name, will come back too.

West Side Story and Oklahoma are also pre-sold titles, but both productions are very dark, which may not play well.

Phantom is an interesting case, because there are two staging out there, one of which has never seen Broadway. It’s not clear which staging will open after covid, but one of them will

Oklahoma! closed in January, pre-pandemic.

Yes, but it was getting ready to tour

Didn't FROZEN close pre-pandemic? What a disaster that was.

Disney should close all their shows for at least a few years. Open up some decent theaters and give us a ll a break.

Yes, [italic]Frozen[/italic] got new lead cast members on Feb 18 and in May announced it would not return from the shutdown. Those new actors got screwed.