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Columnist Suzanne Moore quits The Guardian amid 'transphobia' row

Death of free speech at the Guardian as columnist Suzanne Moore quits after 300 staff sign petition against her claim that gender is more than a 'feeling'

The newspaper which presents itself as a bastion of liberalism and tolerance, and which openly stands in judgement of other media, was hoist with its own petard after one of its top columnists quit amid a 'transphobia' row.

Suzanne Moore today announced her shock departure from The Guardian after a career there spanning more than 25 years.

She later appeared to take a swipe at the left-wing newspaper by changing her Twitter bio to: 'She left because she understood the value of defiance'.

It comes after the award-winning journalist was thrust into the centre of a 'transphobia' storm earlier this year over a column about feminists being abused by trans extremists.

In the article, published in March under the headline: 'Women must have the right to organise. We will not be silenced', she wrote about gender being a biological classification and, 'not a feeling'.

But the comment piece prompted some 338 Guardian employees to write to editor Katharine Viner, complaining about the paper's 'pattern of publishing transphobic content'.

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by Anonymousreply 303Last Saturday at 2:58 PM

Ms Moore, who won the Orwell Foundation's Journalism Prize in 2019 and has written consistently for the paper for the last 10 years, having had a stint at the paper earlier in her career, also revealed she and her children had received death and rape threats.

Her departure comes amid a number of high-profile rows between feminism and transgender lobbies, with Harry Potter author JK Rowling being criticised earlier this year after she mocked an online article using the words 'people who menstruate' instead of 'women'.

Others to face criticism from transgender rights groups include Oxford University Professor Selina Todd and feminist blogger Kellie-Jay Keen-Minshull.

Announcing her resignation on Monday evening, Ms Moore tweeted: 'I have left The Guardian. I will very much miss SOME of the people there. For now that's all I can say.'

She added: 'It was entirely my choice to go. I will tell you all about it one day. For now thank you for these lovely messages. I feel like I am at my own funeral or something.

'Anyway, I will keep writing of course! The efforts to shut me up seem not to have been very well thought through.'

Trainspotting writer Irvine Welsh, ex-footballer Gary Lineker, rock band Primal Scream and MP Jess Phillips were among those sharing their support for Ms Moore.

Journalists Polly Toynbee and Ian Dunt, and the author Giles Paley-Phillips have also expressed their sadness at Ms Moore's departure.

Ms Moore's Twitter bio now reads, 'She left because she understood the value of defiance'.

The staff letter denouncing 'transphobic content', which did not name Ms Moore, was leaked to Buzzfeed and Pink News in the wake of her column.

Ms Moore later named the signatories online.

The row began after Ms Moore addressed how Oxford historian Selina Todd had been barred from speaking at a feminist history event.

Ms Todd, a professor in Modern History at St Hilda's College, was provided with security over a 'transphobia' row.

Trans-rights campaigners were believed to have taken issue with her ties to the women's rights group Woman's Place UK – which some claim to be 'transphobic'.

The group, which denies being transphobic, has pushed for ministers to consult more widely about changing the Gender Recognition Act, which would allow people to self-identify as a man or woman without approval from a doctor.

Professor Todd, who has always denied having transphobic views, was due to give a two-minute speech at an event at Exeter College.

But the day before Professor Todd was due to speak, she was 'no platformed'.

by Anonymousreply 111/18/2020

Defending her in a column, written on March 2, Ms Moore said: 'We have gone through the looking-glass and are being told that sex is a construct.

'It is said that sex is merely assigned at birth, rather than being a material fact – actually, though, sex is recognisable in the womb (which is what enables foetal sex selection).

'Sex is not a feeling. Female is a biological classification that applies to all living species. If you produce large immobile gametes, you are female.

'Even if you are a frog. This is not complicated, nor is there a spectrum, although there are small numbers of intersex people who should absolutely be supported.'

She adds: 'The materiality of having a female body may mean rape or it may mean childbirth – but we still seek liberation from gender.

'In some transgender ideology, we are told the opposite: gender is material and therefore can be possessed by whoever claims it, and it is sex as a category that is a social construction. Thus, sex-based rights, protected in law, can be done away with.

'I know from personal experience the consequences of being deemed transphobic by an invisible committee on social media. It has meant death and rape threats for me and my children, and police involvement. I also know that the most vicious stuff takes place online and not in real life. Still, I can't stand by.

'Most people want the tiny percentage of the population who are trans to have the best lives they can.

'Male violence is an issue for women, which is why we want single-sex spaces.'

In an article for The Spectator on March 14, Ms Moore wrote: 'A glance at Twitter after my Guardian column went online suggested that either I was the saviour of all 'natal women' or had committed some kind of transphobic hate crime.

'My offence was to say that biological sex is a thing. Scientists tend to think it is.

'After all the online abuse, I thought someone might ring me and see if I was OK, but they didn't. But then I never go to the Guardian office. There had been melodrama, apparently.

'A trans woman who had seemingly resigned some weeks earlier resigned again. My words had made her feel unsafe, she said. More than 300 employees at the paper signed a letter condemning the decision to run my article.

'I like freaks. I like fluidity. I just don't like one set of rules being replaced by another.

'I was hurt that so many of my 'colleagues' denounced me, but I suppose everyone needs a hobby.'

A Guardian News and Media spokesperson said: 'We wish Suzanne all the best with her future career and are sorry to see her leave.'

Meanwhile, Professor Todd has today praised Ms Moore in a tweet, saying: 'Thank you to Suzanne Moore for standing up for me (despite fact we disagree on many things), letting me know that my story mattered, that what happens to women is news, worth understanding, analysing, representing.

'The Guardian just lost a brave female voice.'

by Anonymousreply 211/18/2020

This joyous news is giving such a massive thrusting hard-on, I fear I may split my delicious frilly knickers.

by Anonymousreply 311/18/2020

[quote] The demonisation of @suzanne_moore by 300 fellow @guardian journalists causing her to leave her job is disturbing. Identity politics is the curse of the modern left.

Gifting the right with each 'woke' witch hunt. Difference of opinion is crucial for adult 'political' discourse.

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by Anonymousreply 411/18/2020

So brave!

by Anonymousreply 511/18/2020

Douglas Murray once described Suzanne Moore as 'the woman who had a bird's nest on her head'.

I guess they're more sympathetic to each other now that they're both the victims of the Cancel Culture Brigade.

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by Anonymousreply 611/18/2020

[quote] I guess they're more sympathetic to each other now that they're both the victims of the Cancel Culture Brigade.

Doubt it. She still hates men.

by Anonymousreply 711/18/2020
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by Anonymousreply 811/18/2020

R8 I'm not sure who that Pete is. And whether it's sarcasm or irony.

by Anonymousreply 911/18/2020

[quote]Phallocrat

One LONGS to be a phallocrat!

Presumably there are vaginocrats as well? Or is the correct terminology 'Clitocratics'?

by Anonymousreply 1011/18/2020

R9, his article is entirely genuine.

by Anonymousreply 1111/18/2020

'Has being "offended" become a professional industry?

Professional offendees are paid to write articles on being offended; they are paid to give interviews; they are paid to work in charities and other organisations which publish statements saying how offended they are; they are paid to try and change the law to become more draconian; they are paid to publish books on the topic, etc.'

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by Anonymousreply 1211/18/2020

Well, Bari Weiss, Douglas Murray, Laurence Fox all make a decent living being offended when people don't want to live in 1973.

Now Suzanne can join them!

by Anonymousreply 1311/18/2020

Having switched to the Guardian when they opened an Australian edition, I'll say that I always enjoyed her columns. Some of their columnists are insufferable, but hers were always well argued.

by Anonymousreply 1411/18/2020
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by Anonymousreply 1511/18/2020

They attempt to shut down all rational discussion of the matter because they know, per the leaked Denton’s documents, that all but absolute lunatics will disagree with their aims, were they fully known. No other “civil rights movement” has ever worked so hard and spent so much money to *hide* information about their activities, investors and aims. True, too, that no other “civil rights movement” has been funded by the bio-medical industry.

by Anonymousreply 1611/18/2020

[quote]Douglas Murray once described Suzanne Moore as 'the woman who had a bird's nest on her head'.

Liar.

It was Germaine Greer who described Moore as having "birds nest hair and fuck me shoes".

by Anonymousreply 1711/18/2020

[bold] The document that reveals the remarkable tactics of trans lobbyists [/bold]

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by Anonymousreply 1811/18/2020

This is all the more reason why she should have stayed.

by Anonymousreply 1911/18/2020

[quote] …an Australian edition…

Much of the commentary in the Australian edition reads as though it were was composed by raucous Irish-Australian drunkards having dummy-spits in an Australian pub.

Where as the commentary in the English edition has occasional jewels of erudition and wit.

But still the major complaint I have with the Guardian is that they only allow commentary on 5% of their most anodyne articles.

by Anonymousreply 2011/18/2020

She wrote this gem in August:

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by Anonymousreply 2111/18/2020

R19, it sounds by her cagey wording that she may be taking legal action. Certainly a hostile workplace, even if remote, when colleagues are waging smear and firing campaigns against you for stating obvious facts and sex is still, for now, a protected class in the UK, so the anti-woman actions against clearly meet the legal definition of discrimination.

by Anonymousreply 2211/18/2020
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by Anonymousreply 2311/18/2020

[quote] for stating obvious facts

Like about the rates of abuse in lesbian relationships?

by Anonymousreply 2411/18/2020

Nothing more delicious to a progressive than the blood of another progressive.

by Anonymousreply 2511/18/2020

The Guardian has instructed its staff NOT to criticise their Guardian colleagues on social media, which is difficult when there's a lot of anti Jewish and misogynistic men working at the organisation.

In the past few weeks Suzanne Moore said she thought cartoon by notorious anti semite Steve Bell was disgusting (Keir Starmer decapitating Corbyn, a day after the French teacher was brutally murdered in France) and over the last few days she criticised The Guardian's obituary of serial killer Peter Sutcliffe.

For anyone who hates women, The Guardian is hosting a special event next month where Frankie Boyle, a "comedian" most famous for joking about raping and inflicting sexual violence on women, is being interviewed by Owen Jones. "Balls deep in a dead tranny" is one of Boyle's less offensive comments.

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by Anonymousreply 2611/18/2020

I'm surprised it took this long. She's been publishing blunt criticism of transgenderism for almost a decade.

by Anonymousreply 2711/18/2020

R26, please refrain from calling gay men 'misogynistic' -- that's a homophobic slur.

by Anonymousreply 2811/18/2020

Yeah r22, the fact that she's quitting now, months after the event, suggests a lot of stuff has been going on in the background, with the trans loons constantly attacking her and Moore perhaps not feeling she was getting adequate support from the paper itself.

by Anonymousreply 2911/18/2020

I wonder if she's leaving because she's about to be accused of bullying.

by Anonymousreply 3011/18/2020

R28 Oh here we go again.

It's the weekly gays vs. women thread!

Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight!

Round 1: who took care of who during what crisis: and... Go!

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by Anonymousreply 3111/18/2020

Gender really isn't more than a feeling, though. It's identity. It's the public demonstration of a person's sense of who they are.

Sex is anatomical and biochemical.

Gender is performance.

by Anonymousreply 3211/18/2020

Calling gay men 'misogynistic' is homophobia.

by Anonymousreply 3311/18/2020

Gender is performative, but also innate and biological.

Effeminate gay men don't chose to be effeminate.

by Anonymousreply 3411/18/2020

R34 Something like 90% if transwomen aren't gay men.

by Anonymousreply 3511/18/2020

[quote][R34] Something like 90% if transwomen aren't gay men.

Source please.

by Anonymousreply 3611/18/2020

R29, it’s stunning to me that anyone who considers him or herself a liberal is going along with this McCarthy-ism and equally stunning that any gay man or lesbian is supporting this rebranded conversion ‘therapy’.

by Anonymousreply 3711/18/2020

Good riddance to this transphobic cisbitch. I swear, these cisbitches all need to be beaten into submission until they say “trans women are women and trans men are men” 1,000 times publicly. This is why the cat o’ nine tails was invented.

by Anonymousreply 3811/18/2020

[quote]Something like 90% if transwomen aren't gay men.

[quote]stunning that any gay man or lesbian is supporting this rebranded conversion ‘therapy’.

Which is it?

by Anonymousreply 3911/18/2020

I agree with you R20, especially about the commenting. But I do find some of the political commentary quite good, and it's the only place you really get left-leaning commentary in a major news site. The ABC is fairly restricted on what Op Ed they can produce.

by Anonymousreply 4011/18/2020

I rarely read women and whiny, woke articles like hers are the reason why.

by Anonymousreply 4111/18/2020

[quote] Gender is performative, but also innate and biological. Effeminate gay men don't chose to be effeminate.

Hmm. There is a strong implication here that 'effeminate' is a gender. Is that intentional?

I regard gender as relating to dress and style, effectively what a person wears on top of their bodies as clothing, makeup, etc., how they style their hair, and not innate characteristics. I have never heard "effeminate" described as a gender but rather as a personal quality. It isn't performed; it is innate. It isn't mutable; it is endemic. Whereas, clothing, hair, makeup can be changed by anyone regardless of how they feel inside. I can dress as a woman even though my self-perception is not that I am a woman. But I can't pass as a woman or a straight man because I am not either. I regard my sexuality as a sexual state of being and not as a performed projection of my identity. So being gay or effeminate is not my gender in my mind. My gender is man, my sex is male, and my sexual identity is gay. To me, this is markedly different than a person who, for example, has a biologically male sex, a heterosexual sexual identity and the gender of a woman.

by Anonymousreply 4211/18/2020

In the West, most trans-identified men are straight guys with paraphilia, though, more and more young gay boys are being sterilized and castrated because of this ideology. You wouldn’t know it from social media because of how loud the AGP trans “women” are, nor from news stories, wherein the same group comprise the majority of those convicted of sex crimes, but the largest group of trans people right now are young gender non-conforming girls, i.e. lesbians who would rather be male and straight than face the misogyny and homophobia that the trans ideology has *thrust* to the forefront of supposedly liberal culture.

by Anonymousreply 4311/18/2020

[quote]Hmm. There is a strong implication here that 'effeminate' is a gender. Is that intentional?

Well... for all intents and purposes, society does treat effeminate gay men as third gender.

We're not treated like women or men.

by Anonymousreply 4411/18/2020

Lesbians are the largest group of detrans -- because they discover male privilege doesn't exist.

by Anonymousreply 4511/18/2020

R42, gender is just social stereotypes about the sexes, i.e. boys like blue and trucks and girls like pink and dolls. It’s reductive, regressive, heteronormative, homophobic, misogynist and exemplified by fundamentalist religious thinking about men and women. These sex stereotypes are what gay and women’s liberation movements fought for the last hundred years to dismantle. What is innate are your chromosomes. Your sex is determined at the moment of conception, not “observed” or “assigned” at some later date. Men are born men and will die men and the same goes for women. This cannot be changed. How you choose to dress or otherwise style yourself and your interests and the way you intellectually and emotionally respond to the world are your personality.

by Anonymousreply 4611/18/2020

Homosexuality is gender dysphoria, R43. Hopefully, President Mighty Joe Biden will do something about it. It will be great to finally have a president who recognizes that gay men are women and lesbians are men.

by Anonymousreply 4711/18/2020

[quote]These sex stereotypes are what gay and women’s liberation movements fought for the last hundred years to dismantle.

No. That's not what the GAY RIGHT MOVEMENT was about.

Stop trying to conflate the two, given the latter was often viciously homophobic.

by Anonymousreply 4811/18/2020

[quote]How you choose to dress or otherwise style yourself and your interests and the way you intellectually and emotionally respond to the world are your personality.

But a boy interested in musical theater who choose to style himself in purple (like me) would be considered gender non-conforming.

So those things are gendered.

by Anonymousreply 4911/18/2020

Trans is beautiful!

by Anonymousreply 5011/18/2020

I am a phallocrat.

by Anonymousreply 5111/18/2020

Quoting 40 year old lyrics by Scritti Politti on Twitter is a polite way of saying “Up Yours”.

by Anonymousreply 5211/18/2020

R47, homosexuality is a sexual orientation and an example of gender non-conformity. This is one of the examples, among many, where trans ideology falls apart, as this group insists, against their own definition of the term, of referring to homosexuals as “cis” (when they aren’t slurring us as bigots for simply being same sex attracted).

by Anonymousreply 5311/18/2020

Not only are trans women real women, cis women are not. They are inside-out men. If you haven’t transitioned yet, then you’re transphobic. It’s as simple as that.

[quote] homosexuality is a sexual orientation and an example of gender non-conformity.

And gender nonconformity is gender dysphoria, therefore homosexuality is gender dysphoria. You just proved my earlier point, Miss Thang! Let me know when you’re having your new pussy installed. Mine is real.

by Anonymousreply 5411/18/2020

R44 I can engage with the discussion of homosexuality as a third sex, and I suppose perhaps as a third gender. I think of the two as quite different, but I think both are worthwhile debates for the sake of greater understanding. Unfortunately, debates today always do the opposite because people tend to resort to name calling and accusations rather than probing and challenging ideas while listening to the opposing party's arguments.

Re sex: Gay men are anatomically identical to straight men. Gay men are also physiologically identical as far as science can determine thus far. Yet we *are* instinctually inclined to use our sex organs differently and we are attracted to similar instead of opposite. This to me satisfies as the basis of an argument for homosexuality being sex and not gender.

Re gender: I am less sold on the notion of homosexuality being or being closely associated with a third/complex alternate gender mainly because while there is certainly a "gay aesthetic" to which many gay men and women gravitate, it's inconsistent. Is that because of repressive taboos? Or is it a choice? I don't know. Personally, I am "gender fluid" if we are to buy into an argument that gay is a gender, and a gender means public presentation. I certainly am drawn to more whimsical colors and patterns and to more avant-garde cuts of clothing. I buy a lot of them...and then I more often dress in more standard everyday male clothing. So there's some evidence here as far as I am concerned that my interest is "gay gendered" clothing but I am socially inhibited from wearing them most of the time; yet I am attracted as well to a lot of stereotypically masculine styles, such as men's suits, etc. What I am not attracted to or inclined to wear is formless oversized "comfortable" clothing that a lot of straight suburban men gravitate toward (as do straight suburban women in as many cases).

My mother was unquestionably heterosexual and my father is heterosexual, although he is a Navy man and not a "man's man" by mannerism. Yet my mother wore women's versions of male clothing always: large tee shirts and sweatshirts and jeans. For formal occasions, she usually wore a pants suit and very rarely a suit with a skirt. I don't think I ever saw her in a dress. So she was straight, but her clothing was masculine (yet made and sized for women), whereas my dad always just wears suburban man clothes and never would think to wear anything else. There's zero chance my mother was a lesbian, and her mannerisms were feminine, but her clothing was mannish, she did not wear makeup, and aside from having long hair, it was otherwise not styled and plain.

I do believe in gender and sexual fluidity, and I do believe that a person's physical sex, sexual identity and gender can be "mismatched" or occur in ways that divert from social norms. I am gay. I only want dick. I am male and would be horrified to have women's anatomy because it wouldn't fit with my sense of self. Gender/clothingwise, I am only inclined to dress as a man, and the notion of having long hair freaks me out as much as it would freak out a "bull dyke." I do gravitate toward a "gay style," which would fall under the category of gender, yet I am equally comfortable in boring old all-purpose men's clothing and would be beyond freaked out to walk around in any women's clothes, with makeup or with long hair.

by Anonymousreply 5511/18/2020

R47 I am a gay man and I conform to my gender. I don't need to be identified as cis or anything other than a human being who happens to be male who happens to be gay, blah blah blah. So put that in your tranny pipe and stick it where the sun don't shine.

by Anonymousreply 5611/18/2020

As long as we agree Danny Pintauro is actually a big-titted straight woman named Debbie.

by Anonymousreply 5711/18/2020

Good riddance, I hope the door hit her on the way out.

by Anonymousreply 5811/18/2020

[quote]I am a gay man and I conform to my gender.

No, you don't. If you are a man who has sex with men you do not conform to your gender.

by Anonymousreply 5911/18/2020

R58 is more proof that tr-ns is misogyny.

by Anonymousreply 6011/18/2020

In these discussions of sex stereotypes (aka gender), every single culture outside of the West and through history is ignored. The sex stereotypes that persist in the white angle world and which have been amplified and embraced by trans ideology live in a vacuum. “Gender” is just another tool of oppression for anyone who does not meet straight white conservative male ideals of Men and Women. Your personality is not a “gender”.

by Anonymousreply 6111/18/2020

[quote][R58] is more proof that tr-ns is misogyny.

Who fuckin' cares?

She brought this on herself.

I think it's hilarious.

by Anonymousreply 6211/18/2020

[quote]Your personality is not a “gender”.

Then what are gender non-conforming people?

by Anonymousreply 6311/18/2020

DROP THE T! DROP THE T!

by Anonymousreply 6411/18/2020

Drop the T and all the other letters too.

by Anonymousreply 6511/18/2020

Maybe they can now go after the editor that gave the right away for the column to be published.

by Anonymousreply 6611/18/2020

Drop the LGB!

by Anonymousreply 6711/18/2020

No matter how masc you think you are, if you have sex with men a lot of straight men will not treat you the same way.

To be a gay man is to be GNC.

by Anonymousreply 6811/18/2020

All media are agenda-driven. And The Guardian is right at the top of the you promote our fetishes, kowtow to our agenda or else pile. Moore was naive in believing otherwise.

by Anonymousreply 6911/18/2020

R64, we are, we have, but we need the rest of the LGB who value their same sex rights and protections to join us and *stop supporting organizations and companies that no longer represent LGB interests or which specifically exist to advance gender ideology*.

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by Anonymousreply 7011/18/2020

R59

Sex: Anatomical and biochemical signatures of male, female or a mix. (Yes, it is not a total binary. A surprising number of infants have male and female sex organs, and some have both male and female sex-determinant chromosomes.) This is your physical body and it can only be changed by medical interventions. This is entirely independent of others. Your body is what it is objectively, regardless of whether you ever interact with another person.

Gender: Man, woman or other. This is how you present yourself outwardly to see yourself and to be seen by others. A person's apprent gender can be changed by any person at any time. The question of gender identity is whether a person feels an affiliation with the way they are expected to dress socially. This is a mental inclination, a relational concept and not anatomically cemented as sex is. This is independent of others, but affected by social expectations. A person may be inclined to dress as the gender that is associated with their sex in private--or not.

Sexuality/sexual identity: This is how your sexual interests are aroused by other people's sexual anatomy and presentation. This is dependent on others. A person cannot be heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual without interacting with other people. So this is a social aspect of a person (unless they are truly sexually inert). Like gender, how people behave according to it can be affected by social expectations, but behind that is an innate inclination to interact with others' sex organs in various ways that may have nothing at all to do with their gender.

There are standard, most-common connections among these three aspects of being but all combinations do occur variably.

by Anonymousreply 7111/18/2020

The second you tell a straight men who thinks you're straight that you're actually gay there's a sudden change in atmosphere.

Always.

by Anonymousreply 7211/18/2020

I think we should go back to Gay Community.

What do you think?

by Anonymousreply 7311/18/2020

R69, it’s only relatively recently (since taking money from trans lobbyists to stay afloat) that The Guardian jumped the shark from being a source of, you know, news and culture to being exclusively a propaganda outlet. I don’t think it’s absurd to expect a real journalistic outlet to both support free speech and well respected and honored writer who has been with them for a quarter of a century.

by Anonymousreply 7411/18/2020

No, the Guardian has been following the left-wing on everything for decades.

This dumb feminist is just stuck in 1979.

All these feminists brought this on themselves -- and it's delicious!

by Anonymousreply 7511/18/2020

Was the term 'buggery' still in use in Britain in 1996? I know it's a different world there. Suzanne was still using it anyway.

by Anonymousreply 7611/18/2020

[quote]that The Guardian jumped the shark from being a source of, you know, news and culture to being exclusively a propaganda outlet.

Now you're being naive, R74. The Guardian has always been a propaganda outlet. But as long as they reflected your worldview, you didn't (or chose not to) notice.

by Anonymousreply 7711/18/2020

R71, even the minuscule number of people who have Differential Sex Disorders are still Male or Female. The different DSDs are exclusive to men or women. People with DSDs are outraged by being used as a shield for gender ideology. The way sex is *observed* in every species and genus is by gamete production. In humans and nearly every other life form on earth, the females of every species produce large gametes (aka ova). The males of the species produce small gametes (aka sperm). There is no in between gamete. There are only two human sexes.

“Gender” doesn’t exist. It’s a social construct, which varies from culture to culture and over time, and which is used to oppress women and anyone who doesn’t fit into patriarchal stereotypes about how men and women *should* behave and look and think and feel and who they’re *supposed to* want to fuck. It’s trash just like most things straights have dreamed up and forced one everyone else.

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by Anonymousreply 7811/18/2020

I support equal rights and equal protections under the law, period. Everyone can get married, no one can be beaten or fired because of their identity as a man or a woman, a gay man or a bi woman, or a former man or a former woman. Beyond this, everything is bullshit.

I find intellectual discussions about the nature of sexuality and identity interesting but ultimately I think they should be irrelevant in practice. People try to prove that their type of being is 'natural' because the natural extension of accepting that it is is accepting that person as normal and not a target for marginalization.

People make shit so goddamn annoying just because everyone works so hard to make sure the right to hate some small population remains protected. I think human beings just have to feel empowered to disdain and be disgusted by some group of people, and history proves that who that group is is entirely arbitrary. In France, it's Algerians. In the UK, it's Pakistanis. In China, it's the Uyghurs. In Chile, it's indigenous people. In the US, it depends on the year whether gay men are sexual predators, men in dresses are raping all the nation's girls in bathrooms, Muslims all carry suicide bomb vests or Japanese immigrant families are kamikazes who have to be thrown into concentration camps. It's always arbitrary. The only unifying human rule is that we have to hate someone at all times.

by Anonymousreply 7911/18/2020

R77, the fact that Moore was still working there until recently disproves your assertion.

by Anonymousreply 8011/18/2020

There's an Australian Guardian columnist called Elle Hunt who looks an awful lot like a trans woman.

She locked her Twitter account and deleted some of her tweets when she took an instinctive opposition to women outraged that a charity supporting those experiencing a still birth had removed the word mother and replaced it with birthing parent.

Imagine being stuck in the mindset where you can say to someone who experienced a full term pregnancy and then have the baby die inside them shortly before they were due to give birth that they are a bigot for insisting on being called the baby's mother.

The story linked below is from Pink News.

[quote]Following hours of sustained abuse from anti-trans activists, the charity issued an apology, writing: “We are so sorry that this tweet has upset some people. Our tweet should have included the word ‘mothers’.

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by Anonymousreply 8111/18/2020

[quote] “Gender” doesn’t exist. It’s a social construct.

Social constructs exist. Religion is a social construct. Racism is a social construct. Criminality is a social construct. Drug laws are a social construct. More people are killed over social constructs than anything else. What are you talking about?

by Anonymousreply 8211/18/2020

R82, Religion is made up. It’s based on bullshit. The supernatural is IMAGINARY.

by Anonymousreply 8311/18/2020

What about the Halfsies?!? When will they have rights? Who is fighting for them?

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by Anonymousreply 8411/18/2020

R79, as has been mentioned, the vast majority of trans “women” are straight men with autogynephilic paraphelia. They do not take hormones and they do not have genital amputations and 48% of them are in prison for sex crimes, compared to 20% of the rest of all men. Women have every reason to be afraid of having these men and, under Self-ID laws, any man in their same sex spaces. 90% of sexual assaults against women happen in mixed-sex changing rooms, bathrooms, etc.

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by Anonymousreply 8511/18/2020

R83 It's a social construct. Churches are the basis of religions. Spiritual philosophies are harmless until they catch on as social diseases that we call religious organizations. Religions are the metastasis of small cells of ideas. They only cause harm when they go social.

by Anonymousreply 8611/18/2020

R81 But if they are a surrogate they wouldn’t be the mother?

by Anonymousreply 8711/18/2020

[quote]the fact that Moore was still working there until recently disproves your assertion.

R80 Uh, no. All it indicates is that Moore didn't step hard enough on The Guardian's fetishes. Until now.

by Anonymousreply 8811/18/2020

Why is it always the trans woman causing problems? Because men are bullies and assholes and always will be.

by Anonymousreply 8911/18/2020

R88, no, it indicates that the fascists are becoming more and more emboldened.

by Anonymousreply 9011/18/2020

Whiff, man is the left backing the wrong horse on this. Watch Democrats start to lose women along with Latinos and blacks.

by Anonymousreply 9111/18/2020

Spirituality IS harmful. Belief in the imaginary IS harmful. It divorces people from reality and logic and science and makes them susceptible to other cons, like “gender ideology” which flies in the face all proven science by sitting upon a bedrock belief that harmful sex stereotypes are innate and real and *more important* than biological sex.

by Anonymousreply 9211/18/2020

It's ridiculous that we allow this bullying to happen for no provable harm.

People just say make-believe shit nowadays and we are supposed to just accept it. There are 64 genders - OK. There are 72 genders - OK, sounds good.

No pushback, no questioning, no facts. Just a statement that we all have to agree with or we are phobic.

Another one - gays wouldn't have any rights if it weren't for Marsha Johnson and Sylvia Rivera. Accepted - sure, fine.

Madness.

by Anonymousreply 9311/18/2020

R85 My perspective stands. Everyone should be protected equally insofar as their identities. And here is a REALLY radical idea that goes along with it: everyone should be held accountable equally regardless of their identities. So, no, you shouldn't be able to be fired for being transgender or gay or a woman. Yes, you should be able to be fired for being a rapist and your identity should not matter--not if you're a man or a woman or a Muslim or a trans person or a billionaire. Wealthy people don't go to prison for being rapists. Being transgender and a rapist means you're a violent criminal, and it doesn't matter at all if you are transgender: you're a rapist. Donald Trump and Giuliani should be in prison for being criminals, and one of them is a straight pig and one is a part-time tranny. I don't care how they dress or what they see in the mirror. I care that they break laws and cause harm, and they, like any man in a dress who sexually assaults anyone--and that includes priests who claim to be cisgender straight men--should be held accountable.

by Anonymousreply 9411/18/2020

R91, they already are losing these groups and LGB, too. This year the only group Democrats gained with were white men. All racial and ethnic minorities, women, and LGB voted for Republicans in higher numbers than they did in 2016.

by Anonymousreply 9511/18/2020

This along with systemic racism will kill Dems in 2022 if they go along the crazy road. It won’t matter what they say to pollsters, either.

by Anonymousreply 9611/18/2020

R94, “cis” is a slur. No one is a subset of his or her own sex. And 99.97% of the people on earth do not exist in relation to people who identify as trans.

by Anonymousreply 9711/18/2020

R85 I don’t know any of these type of people, while I have actually known many trans people. But rape victims know their rapists 90% of the time. If there are people like this in women’s lives then they should be wary of them, and by all accounts these are people who are not passing as the opposite gender and are obvious. If they are sex pests, then they should be identified as sex pests, but the rest of trans people should not be vilified because this infantilism number of people are trying to usurp their identity. That is what throwing the baby out with the bath water is all about.

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by Anonymousreply 9811/18/2020

R85 is making up false statistics. The site they link to is just the new r/gendercritical, started a couple months ago by the old gendercritical mods.

by Anonymousreply 9911/18/2020

[quote] Yes, it is not a total binary. A surprising number of infants have male and female sex organs, and some have both male and female sex-determinant chromosomes.

Bio sex *IS* a binary. Name the third gamate. Name the third chromosome. X, Y, and Z now, is it? Go on.

by Anonymousreply 10011/18/2020

Omg

by Anonymousreply 10111/18/2020

[quote] Why is it always the trans woman causing problems? Because men are bullies and assholes and always will be.

Nope. Men are beautiful.

Get out of here, dyke.

by Anonymousreply 10211/18/2020

R85, wait. Twenty percent of American men are not in prison. Don’t you see that your numbers are impossible?

What is it about transgenderism that makes both pro-and anti-trans so nuts?

by Anonymousreply 10311/18/2020

FF R102 - what an asshole.

by Anonymousreply 10411/18/2020

We are gay men. We love men. We will not be silenced.

by Anonymousreply 10511/18/2020

R102, DataLounge is a site created by and for gays and lesbians. Your homophobia is not welcome here.

by Anonymousreply 10611/18/2020

R12 YES, and I am exhausted, but I will continue to be outraged.

by Anonymousreply 10711/18/2020

I don’t see the word lesbian anywhere in Datalounge’s logo.

And us gay men have had enough of dykes’ homophobia.

by Anonymousreply 10811/18/2020

TERFs advocate for the cancellation of transgenders thinking that the result will be cunnilingus Utopia with special rights and privileges afforded only to them; and young, pretty straight women must submit. Their perversion is projected onto trans with propaganda

Wait till they run-up against straight males. The blow-back will not be gentle.

by Anonymousreply 10911/18/2020

Yes. We’re not trans but we don’t hate men.

by Anonymousreply 11011/18/2020

I met many gay people who had no trouble identifying as a man, but called themselves non-binary because it is the latest "trend". I bet when the hype is over they will go back to being just gay.

by Anonymousreply 11111/18/2020

I HATE SUZANNE MOORE! SHE SAYS ONLY WOMEN HAVE ABORTIONS SHE IS A TURF!

PS HERE'S A PHOTO OF SOME PEOPLE CHANGING THE LAW TO STOP SOME OTHER PEOPLE FROM GETTING AN ABORTION

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by Anonymousreply 11211/18/2020

R111, my niece came out as a lesbian at 12 years old. Two years ago, at 14, she went away to what was supposed to be a summer camp for gay kids. She came back having been grudgingly indoctrinated into “gender ideology” and believing she had no choice but to identify as “non-binary” because she doesn’t like wearing skirts and dresses.

by Anonymousreply 11311/18/2020

I can't wait to get my hands on your vags!

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by Anonymousreply 11411/18/2020

I'm shocked nd dismayed. Hope she lands somewhere where I can still read her writing.

by Anonymousreply 11511/18/2020

Is the David Rose character non binary? Is Dan Levy? And if he is, should he give back his sexist man runner up award?

by Anonymousreply 11611/18/2020

R18 that’s fascinating. Who actually paid for that report?

by Anonymousreply 11711/18/2020

R117, Arcus, Striker, “Martine” Rothblatt and “Jennifer” Pritzker. I’ll link to some related threads that the TRA trolls farms greyed out that have additional information.

by Anonymousreply 11811/18/2020

[bold] A Republican Billionaire Is Funding the Trans Movement and Conversion Therapy Junk Science. Here’s the Who, and the How. [/bold]

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by Anonymousreply 11911/18/2020

[bold] The Stryker Corporation and the Arcus Foundation: Billionaires Behind The New ‘LGBT’ Movement [/bold]

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by Anonymousreply 12011/18/2020

That's one person.

by Anonymousreply 12111/18/2020

[bold] Martine Rothblatt: A Founding Father of the Transgender Empire [/bold]

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by Anonymousreply 12211/18/2020

I love all those women above!

None are gay boys so I don't see conversion therapy as a problem if they're overwhelmingly straight.

by Anonymousreply 12311/18/2020

Anyone see an article in the guardian on Suzanne's departure? I did not.

by Anonymousreply 12411/18/2020

I love the idea of straight men looking at how womanhood and saying 'we can do this better'.

And they're right. They can.

Can you imagine if these women were running Michfest? They'd have Michfest moon-colonies by now.

by Anonymousreply 12511/18/2020

She'll proobably return to writing for Femail. Moore is/was a better fit with those biches like Moir,Jones etc.

by Anonymousreply 12611/18/2020

She write for The Telegaph and Spectator too.

by Anonymousreply 12711/18/2020

Did trans-crusader troll Owen Jones responded to this yet?

by Anonymousreply 12811/18/2020

[bold] The mysterious power of an international transgender declaration that no one has ever heard of [/bold]

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by Anonymousreply 12911/18/2020

Is George Soros behind it? Like the Gay Lobby?

Hold me, David, I'm scared. Of these dykes.

by Anonymousreply 13011/18/2020

@suzanne_moore It was entirely my choice to go. I will tell you all about it one day . For now thank you for these lovely messages . I feel like I am at my own funeral or something. Anyway I will keep writing of course! The efforts to shut me up seem not to have been very well thought through x

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by Anonymousreply 13111/18/2020

Entirely her choice.

But dykes still want to make her a martyr.

by Anonymousreply 13211/18/2020
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by Anonymousreply 13311/18/2020

In related news:

[bold] Canadian Op-Ed Columnist Leaves National Post Over ‘Ideological Purges’ [/bold]

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by Anonymousreply 13411/18/2020

Barbara Kay was a noted homophobe so good riddance.

Hopefully, a trans woman spritzes her face with acid.

by Anonymousreply 13511/18/2020

R128, I’d imagine he’s named as the ring leader in the lawsuit so it would be very stupid of him to start yammering about it.

by Anonymousreply 13611/18/2020

She's filing a lawsuit?

by Anonymousreply 13711/18/2020

Did you know…

…that 80-95% of people who say they are trans choose to have no medical treatment at all – no surgery, no drugs, not even therapy? Transwomen are just male people who subjectively believe that they are female. That’s it. That is all that’s required.

Despite some commentators describing an “epidemic of violence against trans people“, transwomen are no more likely to be murdered than anyone else, and the best data available shows it’s half as likely. In Scotland, zero have been killed. In fact, transwomen are almost twice as likely to be the perpetrator of a murder than to be murdered in the UK, which is not surprising since a male pattern of violence is retained regardless of any transition or cross-dressing.

The 48% of trans youth have attempted suicide statistic is nonsense too. It was based on just 27 trans people (aged 26 and under), from a self-selecting online survey – which made the data worthless. Yet that hasn’t stopped the TIE Campaign peddling similar in Scottish schools (or is it 27%, they seem confused?), contrary to Samaritans advice on avoiding attributing the cause to any one incident. The NHS Gender Identity Development Service actually says “suicide is extremely rare” and rates of self-harm, distress and suicide ideation are similar to other children seen by CAMHS.

Did you know that 1 in 50 males in prison now self-id as trans according to Ministry of Justice figures? If it is so dangerous to be trans why do so many choose to come out when in jail?

Were you aware that 95% of prisoners are men, and 5% women? That most women in prison are there for financial crime, and most men are in for violent offending. Did you know that men commit 98% of sex offences? That 48% of transwomen prisoners are sex offenders (compared to less than 20% in the general male estate) and would swamp the female estate if they all transferred.

What makes these convicted sex offenders, who were born male, women? Why should female prisoners be locked up with rapists if they say “I am a woman”? Are you willing to be in a prison cell with a male rapist on that basis? And if not, do you think other women should be? Are you aware that women have already been sexually assaulted and raped, in several countries, because of this policy?

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by Anonymousreply 13811/18/2020

Did you know that Scotland already has a policy significantly more liberal than England’s, stating that transgender prisoners must normally be housed according to the “social gender” with which they self-identify? And that this policy was brought in by a senior prison officer, himself now a convicted sex offender? A policy put in place without even talking to women’s groups or considering that there would be any impact on female prisoners at all. Despite warnings of abuse, including from former women’s prison governor Rhona Hotchkiss, the promised policy review has not been forthcoming.

What about women’s refuges, have you considered what it could do to a woman fleeing male violence to encounter a male in that refuge? Read why the CEO of a domestic violence charity, Karen Ingala Smith, considers it imperative that refuges remain women-only, and her speech at the Scottish Parliament.

Did you know that a woman was asked to leave a shelter because, as a rape survivor, she couldn’t sleep in the same room as a strange male, regardless of how he identified? Are you aware that a man used self-id to access a women’s shelter where he sexually assaulted vulnerable women? Are you aware that a rape relief shelter in Canada lost all public funding for insisting they remain women-only, and had a dead rat nailed to their door?

Are you aware that the Scottish Government imposes a transwomen inclusive policy on Scottish Women’s Aid as a condition of funding and that Rape Crisis Scotland refused to guarantee a female counsellor for a traumatised teenager? We know from private meetings that they erroneously believe they cannot provide a single-sex service due to a lack of ‘case law’, despite having previously done so for many years. Did you know there is a male manager of a rape crisis centre, who failed to disclose his sex at interview, and which still claims to be women-led?

Are you aware that despite less than half of changing rooms in swimming pools and sports centres being mixed sex, 90% of sexual assaults have happened in them? Yet mixed-sex, ‘gender-neutral’ facilities are constantly pushed, including in schools – contrary to law and building regulations requiring separate sex provision – when it would be more responsible to increase third space unisex provision for the comfort of those who need it.

That’s before you even get into the issue of how to keep out predatory men who aren’t trans, if you say that any man who ‘identifies as a woman’ can use communal changing/showering areas at will. A man exposing himself in a park commits a crime. A man doing so in a women’s changing room, where you’re also naked, who need not have even told staff he identifies as a woman, may no longer be committing an offence.

Did you know that the Scottish Government funded LGBT Youth Scotland, a spin-off group from Stonewall, to write guidance for schools that breaches children’s rights in at least eleven ways? This includes the unscientific belief in gender identity, which even the Justice Minister is at a loss to define, the promotion of harmful breast binding and the removal of all single-sex spaces and sports. No-one should be surprised at this as Stonewall have long campaigned for the removal of women’s rights, although single issue political pressure groups should have been no-where near schoolchildren.

It took the Government until June 2019 to commit to replacing this guidance, having privately received advice that it was “not legal“. Yet, this new legally compliant guidance is seven months overdue and the Education Minister is refusing to withdraw LGBTYS’s guidance in the interim.

by Anonymousreply 13911/18/2020

[quote]…that 80-95% of people who say they are trans choose to have no medical treatment at all – no surgery, no drugs, not even therapy?

Surely you believe that's a good thing?

If your concern is about gay boys.

by Anonymousreply 14011/18/2020

What about sports? Do you fancy your chances as any of the females in these scenarios – does this seem fair, or safe, to you?

Why should we accept smear tests from any male who feels they have a womanly gender identity – what does that even mean (let’s ask the Justice Minister again)? And yes, it is happening. A rape survivor who wanted a woman to carry out her breast screening found her letter used as an example in hospital trans guidance as ‘unacceptable’ and ‘highly discriminatory’. And a woman in a psychiatric ward who was terrified at being locked in a ward with an “extremely male-bodied” fellow patient was regarded as a transphobic bigot. The truth is that women in mixed-sex hospital wards, particularly psych, have very real reasons to fear men.

Did you know that 35 clinicians have resigned from the Tavistock (children’s gender clinic in London) over their failings, including the Governor? Who later wrote a damning account of the abject failure to heed evidence that their affirmation-only policy is harmful to children, especially to the huge influx in girls who may suffer other complex problems, such as trauma, autism, a history of sexual abuse or discomfort with their developing sexuality. A staggering 48% of children referred to Tavistock have ASD traits, and a BBC Newsnight investigation revealed significant numbers of children seeking transition treatment based on their family’s homophobia.

Are you aware that studies show that puberty blockers result in 100% of children progressing to cross-sex hormones – whereas, if left unmedicated, the Tavistocks’s own research shows over 90%, if supported by counselling, are happy with their sex once they emerge from puberty. Did you know hormone blockers may cause sterility, a large decrease in IQ, bone density loss, and more? An investigation by the Health Review Authority concluded that blockers are really the start of irreversible physical transition and recommended that “Researchers and clinical staff should…avoid referring to puberty suppression as providing a ‘breathing space’, to avoid risk of misunderstanding.” This led to a major overhaul of the NHS UK website which no longer considers blockers to be fully reversible and confirms long-term effects are unknown.

The young person’s gender clinic at Sandyford, Glasgow has recently withdrawn their information booklet and we trust it will be similarly updated. Do you think all the government funded trans organisations will be scrupulous in updating their information too – including LGBT Youth guidance in Dumfries and Galloway, Scottish Trans/NHS guidance, and Stonewall advice, among many more, including of course the already deemed “not legal” school guidance by LGBT Youth?

Are you aware that the number of children referred to Sandyford is rising at a faster rate than the rest of the UK? Yet they don’t actually know how many girls have been referred as children can select what sex they want recorded on medical records – although unofficially, clinicians report similar concerns as elsewhere about the huge proportional rise in young girls seeking to transition. Did you know that bias, and not evidence, dominates the WPATH transgender standard of care followed in Scotland? And it is woefully out-of-date considering the fundamental change in patient make up since it was written in 2011.

Read the speech given by Dr David Bell at the Scottish Parliament and consider why, if his report about issues at the Tavistock prompted the Director to resign, was it not enough for the Health Minister, Jeane Freeman, to instigate an enquiry into identical practices at Sandyford? Perhaps the Government will listen to the outcome of a Judicial Review that is being sought by Keira Bell, a detransitioning woman, who wants to protect other troubled young girls from similar treatment.

by Anonymousreply 14111/18/2020

Are you aware that women with our views are threatened with violence, rape and death, almost as an everyday occurrence? We are told TERF is not a slur, but I challenge you to find any instances of it being used without abuse or threats attached to it. Do you think it’s in any way acceptable for lesbians to be on the receiving end of these menaces for asserting, or even just trying to be proud of, their right to be same-sex attracted? Do you really think there’s such a thing as a lesbian with a penis?

All that hate is from transactivists, and is aimed at women with our views. I challenge you to find anything remotely equivalent from here, from our recorded talks, or indeed anywhere else. This is NOT a case of two sides as bad as each other. And it’s notable that the hate is not aimed at genuinely transphobic, aggressive men. It’s aimed at women. It’s aimed at us.

And JK Rowling. Read the tweets she posted and look at the replies. Read the essay further explaining her thoughts and ask how anyone could possibly think she deserved such atrocious abuse, or how transactivists thought it in any way acceptable to post penis images in retaliation (don’t worry, it’s been edited!) on a child’s thread about Ickabog art.

Did you know women can be, and often are, fired for believing sex is real, that humans cannot change sex, and women and girls are entitled to privacy when undressing or otherwise vulnerable? And yet poll, after poll, after poll, after poll show that this is the majority view, by at least 80%. You may well wonder why then, is the Scottish Government proposing to bring in Hate Crime legislation that would see even JK Rowling imprisoned for up to seven years for expressing views deemed abusive by transactivists, yet affords women no such protection in law, based on their sex.

Innate gender identity is a belief system. There’s no evidence one exists. If our Government cannot even define it, then it should not be presented as fact to our children. It should not over-ride women’s hard fought for rights.

Do you know that the very word ‘woman’ will change definition, if the trans lobby succeed? If we can’t define what a woman is, how can we accurately capture data? How can we record male violence, the pay gap, our representation in government, business, finance, law, media…anywhere? Police Scotland already record incidences on the basis of gender identity, but can’t seem to recall when, or why that happened, and the census looks to be going the same way, despite the importance of recognising sex being shown quite dramatically by COVID-19.

An influential lobby loudly insisting that they won’t be erased (when trans organisations are heavily state funded and train all major businesses, branches of government, school teachers, universities and NHS boards) are actively campaigning to erase the very definition of what a woman is – best archive it, just in case! Have you noticed how easy it is to define a woman when we’re being aborted, subjected to FGM, married off, denied the vote, raped, murdered, paid less, represented less in every single sector of government and industry, expected to perform most of the world’s unpaid labour, and constituting 71% of the world’s modern slaves? The only places that seem unsure on what a woman is are the places feminism was starting to make inroads. It’s almost like there must be some sort of a connection, isn’t it?

We don’t have any fear, resentment or hatred for trans people. We agree there should be protection in law against discrimination and violence. We just don’t agree that our rights need to be railroaded over in the process. We don’t agree that male people should access women’s spaces, or benefit from women’s provision, at will, without our consent. Our name is WOMEN and our rights matter.

Don’t you agree…?

by Anonymousreply 14211/18/2020

[quote]Don’t you agree…?

Nope. Disagree. Feminists brought this on themselves and none of your points affect me or other gay men one bit.

by Anonymousreply 14311/18/2020

[quote] Difference of opinion is crucial for adult 'political' discourse.

Working on the Guardian for as long as she did she should have learned there can be only ONE politically correct opinion and you will be informed what that is. Discourse is counterrevolutionary and like with Suzanne Moore will lead to consequences.

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by Anonymousreply 14411/18/2020

Pretty much tells you all you need to know that the trans-defender is here, on a site for homosexuals, slurring lesbians as ‘dykes’.

by Anonymousreply 14511/18/2020

Pretty much tells you all you need to know that the trans-hater is here, on a site for gays, slurring gay men as ‘misogynists’.

by Anonymousreply 14611/18/2020

[quote] Working on the Guardian for as long as she did she should have learned there can be only ONE politically correct opinion and you will be informed what that is. Discourse is counterrevolutionary and like with Suzanne Moore will lead to consequences.

Working for the Guardian she was totally fine with cancelling other people for wrongthink -- read her old columns -- her only problem is that they've come for her now.

So let's enjoy a little schadenfreude.

by Anonymousreply 14711/18/2020

[quote]…that 80-95% of people who say they are trans choose to have no medical treatment at all – no surgery, no drugs, not even therapy?

This is good.

by Anonymousreply 14811/18/2020

I, like 90% of gay men do not care about sports. I care even less about women’s sports and I don’t care at all about what the gender, sexuality or what the toilet paper of choice is of those who play on those teams. Sports need to be made irrelevant and especially who the fuck has won or not. Even if I cared about them the expectation should be the experience and not the random moment in time that it ended and who was ahead. I’m tired of these whiny biogirls and their boohoo tears that they didn’t win because someone has a little more testosterone. Fucking take up solitaire then.

by Anonymousreply 14911/18/2020

But, as a gay man r149, do you care whether your date has a dick or not?

by Anonymousreply 15011/18/2020

[quote]But, as a gay man [R149], do you care whether your date has a dick or not?

Yes. And we're perfectly capable of swiping left when we find out they have one too. So no problem there.

The only problem comes from feminists trying to suggest that when we also want to swipe left on fats, femmes, and asians is "problematic".

by Anonymousreply 15111/18/2020

They've gotten to the point where they're not pretending to care about gay men anymore. It's now all just women's spaces!!!

I don't care about women's spaces and it's homophobic to try and make me.

You fish still can't form any argument as to how trans women hurt gay men. But I see how they hurt rad fems so I think I'll stick with them.

If this is true:

[quote]…that 80-95% of people who say they are trans choose to have no medical treatment at all – no surgery, no drugs, not even therapy?

It'd be a good thing! It would mean there aren't huge numbers of gay boys being mutilated by their mothers.

But you talk about it like it's bad, which shows me what you think about gay boys.

by Anonymousreply 15211/18/2020

[quote] Working on the Guardian for as long as she did she should have learned there can be only ONE politically correct opinion and you will be informed what that is. Discourse is counterrevolutionary and like with Suzanne Moore will lead to consequences.

That's the fun thing. Suzanne doesn't want cancellations to end. She just wants to decide who is and isn't cancelled. Like all the radfems. They don't say there's no such thing as hate speech. They just want to define hate speech as 'mean things about women' and not 'mean things about trans'.

I hope she and every homophobic radical feminist finds themselves in prison cell with a trans woman who really wants to give her girldick some fun!

by Anonymousreply 15311/18/2020

Women simply can't compete with real athletes.

It's times for women's sports to be protected from trans womens' unfair advantage -- by putting women's sports where they belong: in the Special Olympics.

by Anonymousreply 15411/18/2020

It's super weird that's there would be so much talk about feminism on a gay board.

R142 et al sounds like she has a gash.

by Anonymousreply 15511/18/2020

I’m just waiting for the trans to turn on the enbys for pulling focus.

by Anonymousreply 15611/18/2020

I'll support them in that too.

by Anonymousreply 15711/18/2020

If anyone wants to understand the modern allure of crypto-fascism, it can’t be seen out of context of the cultural maoism of the new left.

I honestly believe that if cancel culture didn’t exist, Trump would pretend it does anyway. But he doesn’t have to — it’s a gift we keep giving him.

by Anonymousreply 15811/18/2020

But Suzanne is responsible for that too, R158. She's just a different faction of Maoist.

by Anonymousreply 15911/18/2020

Working on the poncey wealthy middle clas version of "left wing" Grauniad, she might be right in this instance, but she stood against Diane Abott , the very picture of London Labour. The Grauniad has never not once stood up for the racist rhetoric Diane has recieved..and I am a north of England Labour party member that is infuriated by the London branch that lost us the election.

by Anonymousreply 16011/18/2020

Working on the poncey wealthy middle clas version of "left wing" Grauniad, she might be right in this instance, but she stood against Diane Abott , the very picture of London Labour. The Grauniad has never not once stood up for the racist rhetoric Diane has recieved..and I am a north of England Labour party member that is infuriated by the London branch that lost us the election.

by Anonymousreply 16111/18/2020

That's just another internal power struggle.

Different shades of the same color.

The more you understand trans activism and feminism, the more you see how the latter begat the former

by Anonymousreply 16211/18/2020

Women need safe refuges and that is a fact. Places where no men are allowed.

Maybe it is not so desperate now as it was in my mother's day,where the only time she had relief was they would keep him in cells overnight, but after he stabbed her and she recovered we left, and he couldn't contact us then.

I don't think laws of keep away will mean keep away, so they can posssibly inveigle themselves into the same refuge.

I have zero problem with people who have gender dysphoria. Nutter men wanting to get BE women, just no.

Female to male, obviously the physicality is the difference. Also I have never seen a FtM turn out like an aggressive male arsewipe type.

by Anonymousreply 16311/18/2020

[quote] Women need safe refuges and that is a fact. Places where no men are allowed.

Gay men need spaces. This used to be one.

[quote]Also I have never seen a FtM turn out like an aggressive male arsewipe type.

Both are as 'unscientific', but only MtFs ever get any hate, which proves this isn't about science and reality and facts but about what women want.

by Anonymousreply 16411/18/2020

There really has to be some space for gay men in which we do not have to hear about women whining.

I asked the women who start all these threads if they think gay men are entitled to spaces of our own and they all say no.

Every time.

by Anonymousreply 16511/18/2020

The Guardian -- always got their hands out wanting money to support their ostentatiously woke rag. No wonder they've got money problems.

I hope the trans industry -- an industry exploiting mental illness -- is eventually equated with flat earthers. Future generations will wonder what the fuck were these people thinking.

by Anonymousreply 16611/18/2020

[quote]I hope the trans industry -- an industry exploiting mental illness -- is eventually equated with flat earthers. Future generations will wonder what the fuck were these people thinking.

I hope the same for radical feminism.

by Anonymousreply 16711/18/2020

[quote]Working on the poncey wealthy middle clas version of "left wing" Grauniad, she might be right in this instance, but she stood against Diane Abott , the very picture of London Labour. The Grauniad has never not once stood up for the racist rhetoric Diane has recieved..and I am a north of England Labour party member that is infuriated by the London branch that lost us the election.

Do you know that if you type "Diane Abbott Guardian" into an internet search bar you can find all the articles The Guardian have written about Diane Abbott and the racist abuse directed at her?

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by Anonymousreply 16811/18/2020

R167 if it's not something you deem beneficial to you and gay men only, you don't give a shit? Does that go for race, class and disability? And you hope women that are feminists are forced into prisons and raped? Got it. Get lost. I doubt you're a gay man either.

My partner and I have sisters, mothers, and nieces, so you don't speak for us. Make all the nasty remarks you want, but stop doing it on everyone's behalf. You're a sick fuck.

by Anonymousreply 16911/18/2020

R153 one of the worst comments I've seen on DL, hands down. I don't care about what views are held here about trans crap, but the sick mental illness in this person goes deep and they are likely not gay as they claim.

by Anonymousreply 17011/18/2020

R170, that’s extremely toned down from the TRA’s usual rhetoric:

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by Anonymousreply 17111/18/2020

[quote][R167] if it's not something you deem beneficial to you and gay men only, you don't give a shit? Does that go for race, class and disability? And you hope women that are feminists are forced into prisons and raped? Got it. Get lost. I doubt you're a gay man either.

You specifically say trans hurts gay men.

When we ask why you then tell us something about women's bathrooms.

I center gay men in all my thought.

I care as much as about class, race, and disability as much as the average Michfester.

by Anonymousreply 17211/18/2020

I am a gay essentialist.

Part of the whole point of gay liberation is that gay men don't have to be forced to care about women's sports, bathrooms, or tampons.

There are plenty of other places to post that online but it's here.

Because women do not accept that gay men may have a space of our own.

To simply say we don't want to hear about it is treated like a crime.

We are called 'misogynist', a slur designed to silence us, when we all we is try to think about every issue, 'how does this affect me and my brothers?'

by Anonymousreply 17311/18/2020

I am no fan of the trans community's witch-hunting, And I align much more with Moore's politics than with those of her current detractors.

But Moore has been herself a nasty asshole for years in The Guardian, and I shed no tears for her departure. If you live by the sword, expect to die by the sword.

by Anonymousreply 17411/18/2020

It was women like Moore who normalized witch hunting.

I see all the attacks on Owen Jones and attempts to get him fired and I see the homophobic bullying I endured.

by Anonymousreply 17511/18/2020

R174, oh, whose children did she send rape and death threats to and which colleague did she organize a firing campaign against because they argued for maintaining human rights?

by Anonymousreply 17611/18/2020

[quote] It was women like Moore who normalized witch hunting.

Wait. What?

Think for a moment about what you just typed.

by Anonymousreply 17711/18/2020

[quote]Think for a moment about what you just typed.

Okay.

It was women like Moore who normalized witch hunting.

by Anonymousreply 17811/18/2020

DO NOT FEED THE TROLL!

The troll is now responsible for a third of posts in this thread.

by Anonymousreply 17911/18/2020

And you still can't explain how trans women hurt gay men!

by Anonymousreply 18011/18/2020

I say, let it keep posting and peaking more people by showing them exactly who trans activists are.

by Anonymousreply 18111/18/2020

R179 I blocked someone, and half the thread has disappeared, so it must be them.

by Anonymousreply 18211/18/2020

[quote] I say, let it keep posting and peaking more people by showing them exactly who trans activists are.

I always aim to reveal rad fem's homophobia.

by Anonymousreply 18311/18/2020

Drop the T

by Anonymousreply 18411/18/2020

Return to Gay Rights.

by Anonymousreply 18511/18/2020

Ignore the RadFem troll; he infests and spams every trans thread with endless misogyny trying to start a war between women and gay men.

by Anonymousreply 18611/18/2020

At some point in the last decade The Guardian became a lifestyle blog for insipid twats. It's been years since I've looked at the site and seen anything worth reading. I didn't bother to read the novel at the start of this thread about the transphobia row. The Guardian is all trannies, all the time and I have very little interest in hearing from either side.

by Anonymousreply 18711/18/2020

I am curious as to why this is happening now. Why now? What made this happen? Is it a societal shift that was brought on by popular culture? What part of our culture and media had a role in this? What will be the result? Will in 15 years little boys that dressed up in mommies closet that were whisked away off to be made "correct" realize that what was done to them was criminal? Will little girls that make all-state baseball players by 13 be upset that they were put in the mill of being assigned what they thought at the time was the correct designation?

We are talking about hundreds of thousands of years of the genetic evolution of humans, and now in the early 21st Century we have it all figured out? Fuck, they can't even agree on the theory of why gay men and women actually exist for fucks sake. Now we have the solutions to the possible theories by medical procedures and pharnaceuticals? How does that work? Will we look back and see what a cluster fuck we made of people's lives because we have to HAVE AN ANSWER! There must be a solution to this.

What is wrong with people just living their lives the way they want, without the pressure of making it "correct", fixing the "mistake?"

When a person turns 18 they should be able to do what ever they want with their body. Cut your dick off, fashion a new vagina, or get a dick, or do whatever you want. But the constant need to subdivide this into a word salad of descriptions and insults is nuts. You want to be a girl, go be a girl. Want to be a man, go be a man. But cut this "well I am kind of "insert whatever" today, and feel "insert whatever" tomorrow as I operate on a spectrum, depending on the day, and I will make you pay if you say the wrong thing according to my "whatever I am feeling today".

It's fucking lunacy.

by Anonymousreply 18811/18/2020

[quote] Will little girls that make all-state baseball players by 13 be upset that they were put in the mill of being assigned what they thought at the time was the correct designation?

That's never going to happen if they allow boys into girls' sports. It's the end of women's sports and the end of women's rights.

by Anonymousreply 18911/18/2020

r188, read the articles linked above about the bio-medical money behind this all of this trans social engineering.

[bold] From Transsexual to Transgender to Transhuman Part I [/bold]

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by Anonymousreply 19011/18/2020

[bold] From Transsexual to Transgender to Transhuman Part II [/bold]

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by Anonymousreply 19111/18/2020

Sorry, OP, but being a tolerant person doesn't include tolerating discrimination

Do you think we should tolerate the Klan and Nazis?

by Anonymousreply 19211/18/2020

R189 is full of it. Hardly any boys are in girls sports. To trash trans people they have to pretend trans people are more numerous than they really are

Bigots used to do the opposite with gays - they insisted we only made up 1% of the population and therefore it was okay to discriminate

by Anonymousreply 19311/18/2020

R188 thinks kids are forced to be trans, which is hysterical.

by Anonymousreply 19411/18/2020

R16 is another conservative loon who thinks criticizing people is shutting them down. Funny how the people who claim they're being silenced aren't silent. In fact, they won't shut up about how people are oppressing them for their reactionary views!

by Anonymousreply 19511/18/2020

R194, No, they are not dragged kicking and screaming, but they are discussing things with children all the same with parents that want answers and a solution. Usually the solution to what the parents see as a "problem".

by Anonymousreply 19611/18/2020

When the least offensive thing about your "activism" group is your science denialism, it's time to reevaluate.

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by Anonymousreply 19711/18/2020

R196, most parents (and people in general) are not tolerant of trans people. Usually it's the kids who identify as trans and the parents desperately wish their kids were "normal"

by Anonymousreply 19811/18/2020

I laugh when conservatives like r197 accuse others of denying science. Still drinking bleach, hon?

by Anonymousreply 19911/18/2020

Also, R194, if you observed me as a child, you would see the most fey little boy possible. I dressed up in my sister's dresses when eight. I had a dollhouse, I had a playhouse I decorated. I drew all the time, interiors of houses. I had the gayest mannerisms that any kid could have, and according to my sisters, it was quite the sight. If I was around now as a kid, I probably would be spoken to about my desires to be a little girl. Thank god this did not occur when I was growing up.

That fey little guy turned into an HS football player and was known for hitting hard. Also, I became attracted to my male classmates. Is taking a wait and see approach so bad?

by Anonymousreply 20011/18/2020

Criminal Therapies | with Drs Debra Soh & James Cantor

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by Anonymousreply 20111/18/2020

[quote] Why now? What made this happen?

This man suggests an answer to your questions, R188

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by Anonymousreply 20211/18/2020

Transing a 5 Year Old Tomboy

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by Anonymousreply 20311/18/2020

R200, no one is forcing kids to be trans. No one would have put a gun to your head and made you have a sex change, although you're not doing much to combat the stereotype that gay men want to be women

And Douglas Murray is a right-wing troll. You want to bitch about denying science while aligning yourself with the right? Oh, my sides!

by Anonymousreply 20411/18/2020

Why we're Critical of Trans Activism: an introduction to our side of the debate!

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by Anonymousreply 20511/18/2020

R204, Yes, they are in a sense. They are presented with "solutions" according to science today. Who said I was a devotee of hers? I just think this is another situation where we think science at this given moment thinks that they have the answers, when in fact we may look back and see how we really could be wrong. I am sorry if you have already done some declaring of your sexuality issues yourself or of friends that become unhinged when the wrong word is used inadvertently.

by Anonymousreply 20611/18/2020

[quote] And Douglas Murray is a right-wing troll…

So presumably you're a Marxist troll, R204

by Anonymousreply 20711/18/2020

[quote] an introduction to our side of the debate!

Who is "our"? Where are you, R205? I don't have time for a 40 minute video.

by Anonymousreply 20811/18/2020

[bold] Correction: Transgender Surgery Provides No Mental Health Benefit [/bold]

[quote] The American Journal of Psychiatry has issued a major correction to a recent study. The Bränström study reanalysis demonstrated that neither “gender-affirming hormone treatment” nor “gender-affirming surgery” reduced the need of transgender-identifying people for mental health services. Fad medicine is bad medicine, and gender-anxious people deserve better.

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by Anonymousreply 20911/18/2020

You know r207 is a right-winger because he thinks everyone who isn't a conservative is a "Marxist"

You clearly don't know what Marxism means, like most Republicans. Hint: it has nothing to do with trans people

by Anonymousreply 21011/18/2020

[post redacted because independent.co.uk thinks that links to their ridiculous rag are a bad thing. Somebody might want to tell them how the internet works. Or not. We don't really care. They do suck though. Our advice is that you should not click on the link and whatever you do, don't read their truly terrible articles.]

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by Anonymousreply 21111/18/2020

[quote] …right-winger…

Why is Suzanne Moore writing for The Spectator?

by Anonymousreply 21211/18/2020

r208, he's a liberal gay Canadian who wants to retain sex based rights and stop gay children from being maimed.

by Anonymousreply 21311/18/2020

r212, you seem really out of the loop with regard to the degree that the new left is censoring information, especially from liberals who refuse to play along with the Twitter groupthink.

by Anonymousreply 21411/18/2020

R209 linked to a right-wing propaganda site. The Witherspoon Institute is a right-wing think tank.

Busted!

by Anonymousreply 21511/18/2020

R214 thinks criticizing people is censoring them. That's conservatives for you! Victimizing others while insisting they're the victims.

by Anonymousreply 21611/18/2020

When I started studying the trans issue and began a deep dive into gender and feminist theory, as a result, I found myself stunned that so many publications (and other media sources) that, as a leftist, I had assumed were. if not neutral, at least factual, were instead completely misrepresenting the facts of the situation. Outlets like Axios, publishing blatantly skewed blurbs that, in their hard bias, were overt lies. Feminist Majority is putting out press releases advocating *against* women's rights. And, of course, we have every single major supposedly gay rights organization lobbying to eliminate sex based protections that gays and lesbians rely upon and replace them with the theology of "gender identity". The institutional capture is mind blowing.

by Anonymousreply 21711/18/2020

These people are transvestites.

If you don't have surgery, you are a transvestite!

by Anonymousreply 21811/18/2020

[bold] Response to Julia Serano: Detransition, Desistance, and Disinformation [/bold]

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by Anonymousreply 21911/18/2020

I can't be bothered looking at that lengthy monologue, R219.

Is that person one of the many, many American transvestites who changed their mind?

by Anonymousreply 22011/18/2020

r220, yes. And now she has a man's voice and facial hair and genital side effects from testosterone, etc.

by Anonymousreply 22111/18/2020

R219 But is that person a eunuch?

Will they ever have an orgasm?

by Anonymousreply 22211/18/2020

r222, she has an enlarged clitoris from the Testosterone but she did not have surgery on her genitals and she was only on T for a few years, so, yes, she should still be able to experience sexual pleasure. She's very smart and you should watch the video.

by Anonymousreply 22311/18/2020

Am I right in thinking mediocre cultural queer theorists in community colleges in Podunks across the country are enabling this kind of trans thinking and empowerment? They must think it's all so cool.

by Anonymousreply 22411/18/2020

Thanks R18 for posting that Spectator article about the semi-secret report for trans lobbyists. Fascinating. I've passed it on to someone who writes reports for lobbyists of other ilk. Now *there's* a species who deserves sanctioning.

by Anonymousreply 22511/18/2020

r224, they're acting as unpaid lobbyists and collateral damage for a cadre of bio-medical billionaires.

by Anonymousreply 22611/18/2020

[quote]Am I right in thinking mediocre cultural queer theorists in community colleges in Podunks across the country are enabling this kind of trans thinking and empowerment? They must think it's all so cool.

So is Conde Nast. Anna Wintour appears to have thrown her full support behind that ridiculous online mag THEM.com It must bleed cash.

by Anonymousreply 22711/18/2020

Oops, the url is Them.us. Link below.

Maybe DL is behind the wave?

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by Anonymousreply 22811/18/2020

Note that THEM speaks to its readers in that creepy online newspeak where everyone is expected to share the same lockstep opinion (or else). e.g. "You'll love X as much as we do." , "You'll agree X is the most awesome." etc etc. You'd think they'd trained at a Hitler Youth camp rather than journalism school.

by Anonymousreply 22911/18/2020

That poor deluded young person at R219!

When I was that age the current fad was for us to cut ourselves. Now that fad has passed.

I just hope this current fad for being a eunuch will soon pass— just like the fad for skin-painting is slowly passing.

by Anonymousreply 23011/18/2020

[bold] NHS child gender clinic: Staff welfare concerns ‘shut down’ [/bold]

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by Anonymousreply 23111/18/2020

R194 Is using the classic tactic of "this literally NEVER happens!"

Research after research has shown that 80-90% of the children who experience childhood gender dysphoria, if not put on a transgender path by parents and sycophantic "professionals" who fear losing their jobs, will eventually outgrow their dysphoria and grow up to become gay and lesbian adults. The transing of children has one very explicit goal: the slow, but definitive eradication of gay people.

"So many potentially gay children were being sent down the pathway to change gender, two of the clinicians said there was a dark joke among staff that “there would be no gay people left”."

"“It feels like conversion therapy for gay children,” one male clinician said. “I frequently had cases where people started identifying as trans after months of horrendous bullying for being gay,” he told The Times."

"Several clinicians suspected that some of the “transgender” adolescents were reacting to homophobia at home."

"“For some families, it was easier to say, this is a medical problem, ‘here’s my child, please fix them!’ than dealing with a young, gay kid,” the third female clinician said. At the service’s “family days”, a parent was allegedly heard saying that they did not want their child to have gay friends because they “didn’t want them mixed up in that hedonistic lifestyle”. “It is converting people into heterosexuals,” one of the clinicians said."

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by Anonymousreply 23211/18/2020

Who were the signees? I bet Hadley Freeman was one of them.

by Anonymousreply 23311/18/2020

[bold] Transgender sex offender, 30, is jailed for 10 months after breaking sexual harm prevention order

A transgender sex fiend has been jailed after appearing in court both as a man and a woman to answer different offences.

Walker, 30, who also uses the name Brandon Walker, has racked up 49 offences including a string of sexual crimes against boys and girls.

A court heard Walker - who has been waiting for gender reassignment for three years - used fake aliases on Facebook to prey on victims.

Despite being slapped with sexual harm prevention orders, Walker repeatedly breached them.

On Friday Walker was jailed for ten months after appearing at Northampton Crown Court using both male and female names.

Appearing as Brandon, he admitted two breaches of a sexual harm prevention order and one of failing to tell police his new phone number.

There were also two guilty pleas under the name of Chloe for failing to comply with the requirements the sex offenders' register.

Judge Rebecca Crane said: 'There have been problems with you making malicious allegations against probation staff and poor compliance.

'They say you're highly likely to re-offend.

'It was traumatic for you because you have been waiting a very long time for an appointment at the gender reassignment clinic.'

The court heard that four months after being released from prison for an earlier breach, Walker had refused to stay in contact with a supervising police officer.

Walker blocked the officer's phone number and said he was changing his name back to Brandon.

Days later the officer called at Walker's home in Wellingborough, Northants., where they discovered it had been abandoned and left 'in squalor'.

Walker and a younger girlfriend had run off to a Derbyshire village using the names Ian and Kirsty where they were taken in by kind locals.

Northamptonshire Police were alerted and Walker was arrested for breaching a sexual harm prevention order and requirements of the sex offenders' register.

The court heard that since 2006, Walker had racked up 22 previous convictions including sexually assaulting a boy under 13, sexual activity with a girl under 16, robbery and assault.

Walker had also breached conditions of his release for sex crimes three times in 2016, three times in 2018 and three times in 2019.

Lauren Butts, prosecuting, said: 'These are orders that have been continually breached.'

When Walker was arrested in December last year police found his mobile phone that had searches for Grindr and Wikimedia.

Previous court hearings had been told how Walker had also offended in the names of Jamie Brandon Walker, Steven Walker, James Walker and Jamie Thornton.

The court heard a gender reassignment clinic appointment in May that Walker had been waiting three years for had been delayed by Covid-19.

Chantelle Stocks, defending, said Walker does 'not react well to change'. 'Lockdown has been particularly difficult'.

She said: 'In his words, 'when I struggle I disappear'.

'Miss Walker has been waiting a very significant amount of time for a very important engagement in Nottingham, the engagement he saw would finally progress her transition.

'He found it demonstrably difficult to deal with the trauma which he viewed as a milestone in the progression to be the person who he not only wants to be but the person he needs to be.'

The court heard how Walker was now employed full-time in prison as a wing cleaner at HMP Peterborough and had become a diversity representative.

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by Anonymousreply 23411/18/2020

[quote]to be the person who he not only wants to be but the person he needs to be.

I've heard that lyric! Which show is it from?

by Anonymousreply 23511/18/2020

Womyn’s sports!!!!

by Anonymousreply 23611/18/2020

[bold] The Cold, Dead Hearts of Transgender Advocates Who Prioritize ‘Pronouns’ Over Pedophilia, Rape, Murder, Mutilation [/bold]

Transgender advocates have decided that the only form of ‘violence’ that exists is denial of ‘gender identity’.

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by Anonymousreply 23711/18/2020

Womyn are human!!!

by Anonymousreply 23811/18/2020

R17 … "birds nest hair …

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by Anonymousreply 23911/18/2020

[quote]My partner and I have sisters, mothers, and nieces, so you don't speak for us.

I have trans women in my life (no, not actually) but you don't speak for me because I want them to share a bathroom with all your female family members if it makes them uncomfortable.

by Anonymousreply 24011/18/2020

Burn The Witch......

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by Anonymousreply 24111/18/2020

~ ~ ~

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by Anonymousreply 24211/18/2020

I can't wait for butch lesbians to be accused of being men when they enter a bathroom!

by Anonymousreply 24311/18/2020

Yeah, because instructing women to ignore their instincts for danger is good...for predators.

by Anonymousreply 24411/18/2020

You demand gay men ignore our instincts for homophobes when you tell you anti-trans are the people really concerned about it.

by Anonymousreply 24511/18/2020

Anti-trans can't even say the words 'gay men'.

by Anonymousreply 24611/18/2020

R241 Who are these flighty bitches and why should I listen to them when they can’t even carry off a simple Youtube opening. Whatever they have to say is under minded by their incompetence. Did not watch after 5 minutes.

by Anonymousreply 24711/19/2020

Brevity is a patriarchal construct.

by Anonymousreply 24811/19/2020

[bold] Misgendering is violence? Nah, Mate! [/bold]

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by Anonymousreply 24911/19/2020

She was a homophobe, R249. Thankfully, she's dead.

by Anonymousreply 25011/19/2020

Thanks for the Douglas Murray interview R202. He's always so lucid. No wonder his intellect enrages the Woke. It must terrify them. In this one he talks about the Gay-Trans wars.

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by Anonymousreply 25111/19/2020

Douglas has written some good stuff on feminism.

by Anonymousreply 25211/19/2020

Threadly reminder that the mentally ill, homophobic, woman-hating tranny troll (R5, R13 ... R243, R245, R246, R248, R250, R252, etc) is a pathetic, miserable LOSER with NO LIFE. He has written almost 80 posts in this thread alone, meaning 1 in every 3 replies are coming from him.

Checking this troll's posting history (block him and then click on "Ignored") will show you that he is nothing but a deranged, homophobic tranny troll with extreme mommy issues that lead to a seething hatred towards women. He shows up in every single thread that is even remotely related to trans and does everything he can to either derail the discussion or shut down criticism. Because people have caught wind of him, he has been trying to disguise his trollish, mentally ill nature by posting in other threads. Do not be fooled.

Some gems from his posting history:

- Says that Bruce Jenner looks better than actual women

- Derailed a thread about a Moroccan tranny responsible for the suicides of multiple gay men

- Thinks little gay boys should be introduced to cross-dressing and drag

- Spends his entire time screeching about women (specially lesbians) and calling them "TERFs", "fish", "dykes", "cis", etc

- Believes all women are born narcissists

- Asserts that being a woman (and by extension being a man) is merely "performative"

- Claims that he came here for "Lucille Ball discussions", yet his posting history will show you that he's just a pitiful troll

This is what crippling mental illness looks like, kids.

FF AND BLOCK.

by Anonymousreply 25311/19/2020

[quote]- Asserts that being a woman (and by extension being a man) is merely "performative"

No, I've always made clear that only being a woman is performative.

A commonly-stated axiom among rad fems back in the '70s actually.

by Anonymousreply 25411/19/2020

R253. Not everyone in the world thinks like you.

An open forum is clearly further damaging your mental health.

Take some time out, luv. Adopt a hobby.

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by Anonymousreply 25511/19/2020

r242 Reading the responses in that thread, this bot cracked me up. It's the most British thing ever

[quote]@AlienXNA47 Nov 19 So true re intelligence vs. common sense. Worked for many years in Sales & some of the best performing left school at 15 or 16, worked damn hard at the Uni of Life graduating with honours .. and earning a load of commission to boot!

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by Anonymousreply 25611/19/2020

Can the idiot in this thread who keeps calling everyone who disagrees with him "conservatives", kill himself? It's cute how he thinks this is somehow an argument. All you are using are logical fallacies - ad hominem attacks, guilt by association fallacy, all hallmarks of the logic-free trans activist movement. Of course he isn't responding to any of the articles or comments' actual content, he can't do that.

by Anonymousreply 25711/21/2020

She's not a conservative! It's just the the Daily Mail, Telegraph, and Spectator are the place she works now! She's a liberal, it's all the other liberals who are not!

by Anonymousreply 25811/21/2020

Quite ironic that The Guardian is taking a strong line condemning Priti Patel's bullying when they're also asking readers to buy tickets for an event where Frankie Boyle talks to Owen Jones.

by Anonymousreply 25911/21/2020

Who has Owen Jones bullied?

by Anonymousreply 26011/21/2020

R255 Does it upset you that the psychotic behavior of homophobic, woman-hating trans trolls is being showcased?

It's so ironic that you use a photo of an uber wokester losing her mind in an attempt to mock me. Meanwhile, the mentally ill uber wokester troll has written a third of the replies in this thread. Pot, meet kettle.

by Anonymousreply 26111/21/2020

Why should gay men care about woman-hating?

by Anonymousreply 26211/21/2020

And the Tran Terrorists have greyed this thread out...

Trans = Factphobic

by Anonymousreply 26311/21/2020

She says she's going to be TELLING ALL soon, once she's out of contract :)

by Anonymousreply 26411/24/2020

The lady has spoken.

This is a ferocious read.

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by Anonymousreply 26511/24/2020

Still claiming to be left-wing at.... UnHerd.

by Anonymousreply 26611/24/2020

R265 - that was a terrific piece. As much as I don't like Unherd, that was well worth taking the time to read from beginning to end. No one who screams TERF at people would ever take the time to read it. They'd be too busy bullying women on social media. To my shame I'd forgotten that Suzanne was part of ACT UP and was part of the battle to oppose Section 28.

No one could read that and think she was homophobic, transphobic or anti-men. The trouble is the people who need to read it most won't bother. The same people who tell us lesbians can have penises and gay men not wanting to fuck biological women is transphobic, rather than personal choices for individuals to make.

How people can listen to the revolting ideas spewed by the likes of Juno Dawson or Veronica Ivy / Rachel McKinnon and accuse Moore of "hate speech" is almost beyond my understanding.

by Anonymousreply 26711/25/2020

The response to her article on Twitter is the most predictable thing ever.

1. The same inadequate men (mostly with beards, all below average attractiveness) who fantasise about being as acclaimed a journalist as she is, calling her a hypocrite for saying women are being silenced when she continues to write for other news outlets, without commenting on the bullying or her actual argument about the rights of female women.

2. People outraged that she didn't use less offensive terms like the N word or the P word when detailing the misogynistic abuse she received from far right racists previously in her career.

by Anonymousreply 26811/25/2020

There was some hoohah on Irish twitter ofer the last couple of days - a beardy gay man who used to be an actor but now spends all of his time shouting at women tried to claim that Irish women didn't support Irish feminist groups, and that all the tweets were coming from England.

My favourite tweet was from a English trans woman with a fantastic grasp of history.

[quote]Cis Rights Activists saying #WeWillBeHeard in response to Amnesty Ireland calling them out is irony overload. You're the only ones who've been heard for centuries! You've been silencing trans people since forever. You've always had the power. Fuck off

Those lucky cis people with wombs who until less than 2 years ago had to travel to England, Scotland or Wales to get an abortion.

by Anonymousreply 26911/25/2020

The level of silencing around this topic is astounding. I’ve never seen anything like it before, and I’m 50. Why are we not allowed to even talk about these things??

by Anonymousreply 27011/25/2020

[quote]As much as I don't like Unherd

Yeah, right.

[quote]The same inadequate men (mostly with beards, all below average attractiveness)

Men's looks are not a topic for discussion.

by Anonymousreply 27111/25/2020

R271 - why do think I'm lying when I say I don't like UnHerd?

by Anonymousreply 27211/25/2020

The 338 signatories are here. Not one of the columnists I regularly read are signed.

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by Anonymousreply 27311/25/2020

R273 - yes I was pleased about that too - especially no John Crace

by Anonymousreply 27411/25/2020

Simon Hattenstone was the only signature that surprised me, simply because he's friendly with Julie Bindel.

It would have been helpful if they could have divided it up between Australia, America and technical staff.

Do a Google image search for Martin Belam, Ben Beaumont Thomas and Chris Godfrey and they look exactly like the type of men who don't like opinionated women.

The trans woman who announced her resignation at the meeting and blamed it on Suzanne Moore despite having resigned some weeks previously tweeted about it and was then outraged when one media outlet picked it up and used on of her photos. After being outraged about being outed as trans she put her infamy to good use and started asking people for money to pay for surgery.

by Anonymousreply 27511/25/2020

[quote]Do a Google image search for Martin Belam, Ben Beaumont Thomas and Chris Godfrey and they look exactly like the type of men who don't like opinionated women.

Please stop commenting on men's looks.

by Anonymousreply 27611/25/2020

[quote]why do think I'm lying when I say I don't like UnHerd?

All British TERFs do this thing in which they pretend to be left-wing.

"I'm left wing, but... expresses right-wing opinions for the millionth time"

by Anonymousreply 27711/25/2020

[quote] As much as I don't like Unherd,

When women are getting de-platformed from the usual suspects then they have to use whatever platform they can. That's part of the censorship game plan. Erase their platforms and you silence women and more easily erase them. If they find unconventional platforms then they try to associate them with that platform's other opinions so you can discredit women who you forced out of the "acceptable" venues.

Fuck that shit.

by Anonymousreply 27811/25/2020

Well that was a long winded rebuttal that makes me not want to read anything ever written by her again. She does out herself for slandering Brazilian Transexuals, which as a British columnist seems unnecessary to attack such a vulnerable faction that has nothing to do with her or the UK. With what that debacle caused, it seems understandable why her editors didn’t want her to step into such a complicated situation again as she had already proved herself a negative lightening rod.

She tries to paint herself as a reporter of the people and anti elitist, but then constantly remarks on the fact that she never even goes into the office to work, but chooses to stay in her own home. And this isn’t just a recent development due to the current state of the world. No wonder her coworkers united against her, she doesn’t even show up for the community meetings when all staff come together and discuss issues, where she could have actually voiced her problems against the newspaper that she continually rants about, has left the paper because of, but then goes back to work there knowing nothing has changed.

She really comes off as completely out of step with current issues and journalism and a hold over from another era shaking her fist and complaining about all that is wrong now and not just frozen in time circa 1999. Her time has obviously past and it was kind of the paper to keep her on and I’m sure she had some loyal long term readers who valued her articles and point of view. And it sounds like the newspaper was willing to retain her, but it was her choice to leave. It seems like it’s been a very tenuous relationship for a long time and exhausting for all. She clearly points out her unhappiness in the past and present there and how she never fit in yet continued to work there in what looks to amount of decades. Why, why do that, to what end, it’s never been a good fit, but you beat it to death by working there for years? Be happy your free from a work environment you don’t like or respect, it wasn’t your job to be the squeaky wheel there.

by Anonymousreply 27911/25/2020

[quote] All British TERFs do this thing in which they pretend to be left-wing. "I'm left wing, but... expresses right-wing opinions for the millionth time"

Here we have a prime example of exactly what I talked about in R278.

R278 is a deceptive misogynist bully.

by Anonymousreply 28011/25/2020

^^^ Of course I meant R277 is a deceptive misogynist bully. I, on the other hand at R278 am enlightened and correct.

by Anonymousreply 28111/25/2020

[quote]When women are getting de-platformed from the usual suspects then they have to use whatever platform they can.

She wasn't deplatformed. She quit.

And like all rad fems she MUST play the biggest victim in the world.

by Anonymousreply 28211/25/2020

She kept getting censored by her employer - you know THAT platform. She could not speak the truth or give her opinion.

This is the state of affairs for women trying to speak out to preserve sex based rights they fought long and hard for.

R282, you are completely incredible on this topic. Either through ignorance or deliberate misogyny. Either way STFU and STFD.

by Anonymousreply 28311/25/2020

R277 - I'm as left-wing as you can get.

Which is why I support women's equality and safety. Giving women equality makes men equal too. You do understand the concept of 'equality'?

I also support trans peoples' right to call themselves whatever they want and live whatever lives they want. But I find myself deeply conflicted over *some* people's promotion of trans rights that trample over women's. People getting outraged that consumer products aimed at dealing with the reality of women's biology (tampons etc) don't include men who identify as women is not about equality, it's about promoting "feelings" over objective reality. I can't support denial of biological facts. That's ludicrous.

by Anonymousreply 28411/25/2020

[quote][R282], you are completely incredible on this topic. Either through ignorance or deliberate misogyny. Either way STFU and STFD.

You're a woman.

Get the fuck out of this gay men's space and go bathe in acid if you think it's acceptable to come in here and tell gay men to shut up when we speak.

by Anonymousreply 28511/25/2020

A Twitter person (formerly a straight woman, now someone with a shaved head and planning a double mastectomy) wrote this yesterday in response to Suzanne Moore.

[quote]you cannot argue our class of women is being erased while also refusing the use of the word "cis" / you cannot say there are no similarities with the gay rights movements which introduced the initially controversial notion of straightness while refusing the use of the word "cis"

I can see their train of thought, but this person is so far along the TWAW spectrum that they can define cis but can't define what gay or straight is any more. If a lesbian or a straight man doesn't want to suck a hard throbbing cock oozing precum or a gay man doesn't want to slide his tongue into a trans man's moist vagina and work his clit, then in this person's eyes they're a bigot.

by Anonymousreply 28611/25/2020

[quote]If a lesbian or a straight man doesn't want to suck a hard throbbing cock oozing precum or a gay man doesn't want to slide his tongue into a trans man's moist vagina and work his clit, then in this person's eyes they're a bigot.

A gay man who doesn't want to have sex with a 'transman' isn't a bigot (a lesbian who doesn't want to have a relationship with a trans woman is though).

But you can support trans women's right to exist even if you don't support gay men being told to like vag.

BTW, most of the people telling gay men we're bigoted for not liking vag are cisdykes.

by Anonymousreply 28711/25/2020

[quote]BTW, most of the people telling gay men we're bigoted for not liking vag are cisdykes.

WTF???

by Anonymousreply 288Last Thursday at 4:20 AM

Here's an example, R288.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 289Last Thursday at 4:22 AM

[quote] You're a woman. Get the fuck out of this gay men's space and go bathe in acid if you think it's acceptable to come in here and tell gay men to shut up when we speak.

Are you new here? This is a GAY space. It is not and never has been exclusively a gay MEN's space. Never. Ever.

Your use of the word "space" instead of forum makes me think you're a young pup. You probably also use the term "safe space". If you had been here back in the day you might know - if you were capable of pulling your head out of your ass - that not only did DL have more than one forum but it also had sections on different topics like gay health issues, gay legislative news and action, etc.

I have been here since 1998 and I ain't going nowhere. You, on the other hand, belong at some Trump rally.

Your casual use of typical straight male pattern violent speech toward another poster affirms that you should STFU and STFD. You're not wearing a dress and carrying a barbed wire baseball bat are you?

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 290Last Thursday at 5:19 AM

[quote]This is a GAY space.

The term gay refers to men who love men only.

No woman can be gay.

by Anonymousreply 291Last Thursday at 5:22 AM

Yesterday was International Day for the Elimination of Violence against Women and Girls so Jameela Jamil, Paloma Faith (who is bringing her child up to be gender neutral like most unremarkably ordinary parents) and Olviia Colman signed a letter to centre trans women.

[qupte]We are feminists and we write, on international day for the elimination of violence against women and girls, to express our solidarity with trans women, particularly trans women of colour, who experience violence and hostility so frequently it is almost a way of life. Trans women are more likely to be murdered, more likely to be victims of violent attacks in their own homes, and more likely to be homeless, again increasing the risk of violence, than their cis sisters.

And this is from FullFact, part of Channel 4 news

[quote]Figures from the ONS for 2008 to 2017 show that the average adult in England and Wales has a one-in-100,000 chance of being murdered in a given year. The limited data we’re working with suggests that in the UK at least, a trans person is less likely to be murdered than the average person. But it’s worth bearing in mind that the recorded number of trans murder victims is so small that it would only take one or two more murder cases every year for the UK “trans murder rate” to double or triple. And until new reporting methods come in, we are making this calculation based on unofficial figures. We should therefore be very wary of drawing firm conclusions.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 292Last Thursday at 5:37 AM

[quote]Yesterday was International Day for the Elimination of Violence against Women and Girls so Jameela Jamil, Paloma Faith (who is bringing her child up to be gender neutral like most unremarkably ordinary parents) and Olviia Colman signed a letter to centre trans women.

But somehow that will all be men's fault.

by Anonymousreply 293Last Thursday at 5:39 AM

This is Alex and Sophie.

When Alex was a man called Alan he killed a man he met on a dating site by stabbing him 16 times.

When Sophie was a man called Daniel she murdered a man she was sharing a cell with by strangling him with shoelaces.

When Alan became Alex and when Daniel became Sophie they were transferred to a women's prison and became lesbian lovers.

Except other women complained that Sophie and Alex kept having sex in front of them so Sophie was moved to another prison and then Alex started dating a cis woman called Naomi, who had tortured and murdered her 2 year old son. Naomi was convicted alongside her cis-wife Rachel, but they split up when they were sent to separate prisons.

The Scottish prison system is so cruel by denying the love of LGBT people.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 294Last Thursday at 6:30 AM

[quote] a cis woman called Naomi, who had tortured and murdered her 2 year old son. Naomi was convicted alongside her cis-wife Rachel, but they split up when they were sent to separate prisons.

This stuff is so common among cis lesbians it’s unbelievable but never discussed.

by Anonymousreply 295Last Thursday at 6:40 AM

Don't bother responding to the insane misogynist trans activist troll - he sits on these threads and spams them with various misogynistic comments, accusations, and attacks in the hopes you will give up. Any thread that tangentially mentions trans, he appears immediately and never stops posting. It's best to just block him, and you will see that a vast number of comments on this thread are from him. Why he has not been banned by Muriel I have no idea.

by Anonymousreply 296Last Thursday at 7:08 AM

Yes, only homophobic and transphobic comments are allowed.

by Anonymousreply 297Last Thursday at 7:36 AM

There is the interview with her now on You tube. I like it . The guy who interviews her is hot.

In my own life I have never met a Trans person I didn’t like. But I also believe this is being used like Islam being a Religion of tolerance to make people say impossible things as true. It is like Orwell on speed.

The things about Gender being fluid and sexuality means effectively we can just become Straight if we really wanted too. That all the arguments about being born Gay go out the window. That affectively we can just snap out of it if we wanted to.

It is coming to a point where something will snap and that scares me. How long can a small minority tell a majority that they are bigoted, change the language and make everyone feel awful before people start saying fuck this shit and rebel ?

by Anonymousreply 298Last Friday at 3:37 AM

It’s super weird that concern about ‘misogyny’ would be so rampant on a gay site.

by Anonymousreply 299Last Friday at 4:23 AM

r298 he's definitely hot. He's the executive editor (I think) of Unherd. I'm assuming he's a Tory, unfortunately, but still, he made the interview nice to look at.

Re: the Gender Theory nonsense - that, coupled with Intersectionality Theory, is a nightmare. It's incredibly misogynistic and homophobic at its core and is used as a bludgeon by people who want to reinforce gender stereotypes instead of the other way around. Given the narcissistic nature of social media, it's also used to turn people into victims, so they can be excused/do or say whatever they want. Add in "Antiracism Theory" and you end up with a trifecta of crap. It's all postmodern bullshit.

The victim mentality is also the core of Trumpism. They feel justified in everything they do because they have been told they are victims and social media and the right wing reinforces this. The righteous bullies on Twitter who are using social justice as a weapon and a purity test are essentially the same thing as Trumpists, they just make ANOTHER group victims and then feel justified because they are "protecting" these meek souls.

by Anonymousreply 300Last Saturday at 12:56 PM

R298 The guy who interviews her is hot.

I'd like to see some full body shots.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 301Last Saturday at 2:41 PM

Moore (the woman with the bird's nest hair) says The Guardian embodies the cult of righteousness.

The Guardian sacks journalists while paying moderators to delete comments calling a journalist a cxnt.

The Guardian prints Seumas Milne reprinting a sermon by Osama Bin Laden.

The Guardian pays female journalists less than half what male counterparts get.

The Left thinks, in binary terms. Electoral politics, which could be about persuasion, instead becomes a series of war games.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 302Last Saturday at 2:50 PM

R294 The last line of your post is ironic, isn't it

by Anonymousreply 303Last Saturday at 2:58 PM
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