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Do you regret not having children?

As a 48 year old professional, relatively successful gay man, I’m constantly asked if I want children, and told “you’d make such a wonderful father!” My answer is always “I love visiting my nieces and nephews, but I love them even more when I leave and go home alone.” I can handle a couple hours and then I’m mentally and physically done “entertaining” them. I know they can bring joy for some, but I’m 100% certain I’m not one of those people.

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by Anonymousreply 26911/21/2020

No, never.

by Anonymousreply 110/26/2020

Fuck NO! 🚫

by Anonymousreply 210/26/2020

No, I can honestly say I don't regret it. I've been able to travel and buy what I want when I want to. I like my quiet household with my cat. I like doing laundry and cleaning when I want to do those things. I cook what I want to eat and don't have to worry about someone not liking something or being allergic to it.

Granted, I'm 58 so I wouldn't have young kids at home but I listen to my coworkers with young kids. They are not having an easy time and I'm not just talking about COVID-19 circumstances.

Perhaps that's made me selfish but there you have it.

by Anonymousreply 310/26/2020

Nope. I miss the days when yuppies were more acceptable socially. Around the early to mid 2000s American culture starting reverting back to that baby worshipping shit wherein everyone MUST become a breeder.

by Anonymousreply 410/26/2020

Yes, but I wouldn't do it at my age. I'm 41. I see people who start families late in life and I think they're crazy.

by Anonymousreply 510/26/2020

No, I can’t stand kids.

by Anonymousreply 610/26/2020

Yes, I do - but I wouldn't have wanted to be a "Gay Dad". It just doesn't appeal to me.

If I'd been str8 I would definitely have gone for it.

There's a father in me that's never been put to use. So I father the gurls on here whenever the situation demands.

Also, whenever I've felt sad not to have kids I remind myself of SCHOOL - I hated school and would have hated to go thru it again with a child.

by Anonymousreply 710/26/2020

R7 - agree. “Gay dads” make me cringe so hard. It’s like they’re so thirsty for attention they’re doing it more for themselves than the children. Yuck.

by Anonymousreply 810/26/2020

Now that I'm in my 60s, I regret not have two or three happy, healthy, successful adult children. But that's never ever guaranteed to happen. Not for anyone. Having them and raising them is a total and complete crap shoot. You never know what you're going to get. You can get a child with mental illness just as easily as you can get a healthy child.

If the wrong kid gets pushed out into the world, your life can be ruined. They are best to be avoided.

by Anonymousreply 910/26/2020

Oh fuck no.

I don't hate children. I don't object to other people having or wanting children. I just have absolutely a less than zero interest in being a father, parenting, wearing a Guncle sweatshirt (walking through crisp, colorful leaves walking toward my Range Rover with the imaginary tow-headed children of my imaginary brother and a gold lab tagging along)...none of that. for me. Never imagined I would have it, never wanted it, never will.

by Anonymousreply 1010/26/2020

There are so many people who should not be parents but have children anyway because they're too lazy to avoid it. And then they expect other people to be the same way.

I don't regret not having kids for an instant. I'd feel the same way if I were straight. I wouldn't be a good father.

by Anonymousreply 1110/26/2020

I definitely would not be a good father. I can admit I’m too self involved. I’d be the parent who left his child locked in a hot car or carelessly let them drown in a backyard swimming pool. Not a good idea.

by Anonymousreply 1210/26/2020

I'm a great uncle but having kids myself? No, they are too much work.

by Anonymousreply 1310/26/2020

Hell, no! I am at peace with my decision not to have kids. What really annoys me is how all my straight friends say I would make a great father and are constantly rattling off the many joys of parenthood to try and convince me. I love keeping a clean house, being able to travel with my husband as often as our jobs and budgets allow without having to worry about school calendars (we typically travel when schools are in session), staying out as late as we want, working peacefully at home, not having to censor my language, etc.

But why do people with kids feel the need to preach to me about how I should have kids? The more I tell them how happy we are without kids, the more the insist. I look around at how my friends have aged, how little time they have for themselves, how they are in a constant state of alert, how much logisitcs and planning have to be involved for everything, how much noise they consistently endure .... no thanks

by Anonymousreply 1410/26/2020

I'm a 62 gay man. I wish I had children. If I had to do it all over again I would, as difficult as it would have been.

by Anonymousreply 1510/26/2020

Female, but I'll answer anyway.

Flat no. Hard pass. Kids annoyed the shit out of me back when I was one, and they annoy me now. You get the occasionally smart good-natured polite and charming child, but the majority are crass sociopathic little trolls who haven't had enough experience to be intelligent or empathetic. Can't imagine being responsible for one or even living with one. They also prevent sleep and solitude, which I need daily to live.

The only way I could ever raise kids is early-1900s remote wealthy father-style; let the Nanny/Wetnurse/Governess/Cook raise the children, and only see them myself every other weeknight for a couple of hours between snifters to read them a bedtime story, and perhaps on a Sunday to take them for an afternoon stroll or spot of tea should I feel the sentimental urge.

by Anonymousreply 1610/26/2020

R16 - same girl, same.

by Anonymousreply 1710/26/2020

Choosing to have children is a real responsibility. I have no regrets because I know I would’ve lost myself to raising the kids instead of living my life. Kudos to those who really want to have kids and work hard at it

by Anonymousreply 1810/26/2020

I can't even regret it because I never think about it.

by Anonymousreply 1910/26/2020

My partner and I had two kids via surrogacy, We're older parents and, as I say, "Parenting is the hardest job you'll ever love" - but I wouldn't go back and change a thing. We had a lot of good time together before we had kids - and we've a lot since. Being a parent isn't for everyone - and my partner and I often look at each other and say, "What did we do?" - but we do love it and I love my kids more than I can say. Our daughter, especially, has taught me SO much. I always liked and respected women - but she has changed my whole worldview of how women are treated.

by Anonymousreply 2010/26/2020

R12, me too! Whenever I hear about those tragedies I sympathize with the parent because I know if I had a kid it would be a disaster.

I also would hate to go to all those kid-focused places, vacation when school is out, and have to help with homework and school projects.

I am convinced that most people who have children haven’t really spent much time interacting with kids (as an adult). It’s exhausting, stressful, and at times very, very boring. Sure there is wonder and joy but think about every time you made a kid laugh, and he says “Do it again!” I cannot imagine having to do that every day for years, not to mention to kid shows and movies, games, etc. Boring!

by Anonymousreply 2110/26/2020

I love r16!

by Anonymousreply 2210/26/2020

I am also glad not to bring another person into this world and am grateful I don’t have to explain to a kid WTF is happening in the US.

by Anonymousreply 2310/26/2020

Definitely not. But I do regret not spreading my intelligence around.

by Anonymousreply 2410/26/2020

[quote] and my partner and I often look at each other and say, "What did we do?" - but we do love it and I love my kids more than I can say. Our daughter, especially, has taught me SO much. I always liked and respected women - but she has changed my whole worldview of how women are treated.

Your daughter is a woman, already?

by Anonymousreply 2510/26/2020

[quote] But I do regret not spreading my intelligence around.

Oh, somehow I think humanity will survive. :::eyeroll:::

by Anonymousreply 2610/26/2020

I know this is grim and pessimistic, but why would I want to bring another person into this world? Life is shitty, this world is shitty and it's just getting worse.


by Anonymousreply 2710/26/2020

R25: well, I suppose I could have said "female" instead of "woman" - sorry. She has taught me a lot about the issues that women/females face in our society.

by Anonymousreply 2810/26/2020

Fuck no. And fuck anyone who uses a surrogate. Women are not your incubators. Adopt you selfish motherfuckers.

by Anonymousreply 2910/26/2020

Have you taught her that someday some men will want to borrow her uterus to make a baby because that's where her real worth lies, r28?

by Anonymousreply 3010/26/2020

I love children....

by Anonymousreply 3110/26/2020

R31 - I also love children.....when they die of SIDS.

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by Anonymousreply 3210/26/2020

Listen up. We have it made. Dote on your nieces and nephews. We all love our gay uncles. They will too. Why change diapers when you don't have to. Children are not the natural consequence of our sexual activity. Thank lawdy! It's like gays in the military. Let's just be thankful that we have been exempt.

by Anonymousreply 3310/26/2020

WTF, r32

by Anonymousreply 3410/26/2020

Yes. Children are our continuation and give our own limited existence meaning.

by Anonymousreply 3510/26/2020

Fuck no.

And R35 is a moron if that’s what he thinks life is all about.

by Anonymousreply 3610/26/2020

No, R35. You give your own limited existence meaning. Don't create someone just so you can live vicariously through them.

by Anonymousreply 3710/26/2020

So many frau cunts in this thread.

by Anonymousreply 3810/26/2020

R35 We'll continue without you, thank you very much. What have your wonderful genes done for us lately?

Don't take chances. They can turn out bad. Find a nice deserving young man and adopt him.

by Anonymousreply 3910/26/2020

R37 Procreation is natural to all beings. Life strives for continuation. Sex drive is just motivation for procreation. Having offsprings is much more meaningful than just living for sex with nothing coming out of it.

by Anonymousreply 4010/26/2020

R36 You’re live is only about sex and pleasure, right? This is just the path to suffering.

by Anonymousreply 4110/26/2020

No! I would hate having kids.

I'm a fun uncle, but to only half of my nieces and nephews, the rest of them are unpleasant only seeing me as a Christmas gift giver and otherwise are so weird, unresponsive and manipulative. No thanks.

by Anonymousreply 4210/26/2020

Get over yourself R40. You are offensive on so many levels.

by Anonymousreply 4310/26/2020

Why would anyone want to have children in the time of Trump?

by Anonymousreply 4410/26/2020

Most sex is not about procreation but just lustful sex. Ours is the same, with no risk of procreation. You didn't get the gay memo? I'm sure glad I'm gay. I wouldn't have it any other way.

by Anonymousreply 4510/26/2020

Magnetic interesting parents have dull as dishwater kids. The best environment for raising competent kids are dull-witted conventional parents who aren't particularly good at anything.

by Anonymousreply 4610/26/2020

R46: tRump and Whore Melania are good examples of that

by Anonymousreply 4710/26/2020

R16 That method of parenting is not remotely socially acceptable anymore. Which is a bit of a shame. I suspect that a lot of breeders would be far less unbearable, high strung, and just plain obnoxious were they socially allowed to go back to that old school type of child rearing.

by Anonymousreply 4810/26/2020

Hey stupid frau cunt R40: Gay men don’t fuck because we want kids. We fuck because it feels good.

How fucking retarded ARE you?

by Anonymousreply 4910/26/2020

r48, the ones who can just dump their kid on their parents or in-laws.

by Anonymousreply 5010/26/2020

If I had a kid and raised him how I was raised in the 70s he would be “the weird kid” and I am sure we would be ostracized by society. I had a great childhood, and grew up to be a stable, confident and kind man.

by Anonymousreply 5110/26/2020

It's like a sin if a parent admits that they should never have been a parent or they don't like their children. Sometimes this happens. It's reality.

If you don't want children, don't have them. I have more respect for someone who admits they might leave their kid in the car or forget to pick them up at school.

I don't understand how we've regressed to this baby worshipping, treat children like they are precious and should never be disciplined.

I really loathe how most parents raise kids today. Time and time again, I hear parents talking to kids in loud voice in stores, pandering to their kids as if to show everyone what a good parent they are. Seriously fuck off.

by Anonymousreply 5210/26/2020

I enjoy kids and had lots of fun with my nieces and nephews but never wanted any of my own, even before I was sure I was gay, and way before my peers did and this whole ultra involved style of parenting became the norm - there is no way in hell i world put up with all the scheduling and “activity watching” I see my sisters and friends do - you have a bike, get your own ass to little league like I did, and no I don’t want to watch more than a few of your games. Child Services would lick me up.

by Anonymousreply 5310/26/2020

Life is full of disappointments. Why have 2.5 more?

by Anonymousreply 5410/26/2020

R45 The purpose of sex is bringing people together intimately. Pleasure is only the immediate reward. It’s mother nature’s trick. Not all couple can procreate naturally, whether gay or straight. It does not matter as it’s sufficient for our species that some do procreate. And gays can built a family these days via surrogacy and adoption.

by Anonymousreply 5510/26/2020

Sex drive is about cooperation and empathy and only incidentally about procreation.

by Anonymousreply 5610/26/2020

Nope. Too stringy.

by Anonymousreply 5710/26/2020

Having children is overrated unless you have money and good family relationships. I am not saying I regret having had a child but I definitely never got a chance to enjoy it and made sure to never do it again.

by Anonymousreply 5810/26/2020


by Anonymousreply 5910/26/2020

No i love having more time for myself and have close relationships with nieces and nephews so can see them as much as I want to. I think it would be more difficult to be a straight man who wanted marriage without children as it seems almost all women who have husbands want kids. Being gay has worked out very well for me!

by Anonymousreply 6010/26/2020

[quote]Life strives for continuation. Sex drive is just motivation for procreation.

One might as well say that hunger is just motivation for taking a shit later.

by Anonymousreply 6110/26/2020

I’m much too selfish and could not handle the responsibility of children. Dogs yes, kids NO!

by Anonymousreply 6210/26/2020

[quote]As a 48 year old professional, relatively successful gay man, I’m constantly asked if I want children, and told “you’d make such a wonderful father!”

You must know quite a lot of rude people. It is no one's business whether someone else wants children, and it seems particularly obnoxious to ask someone who is over 45.

by Anonymousreply 6310/26/2020

Another woman here.

Absolutely zero regrets. My niece and nephew and wonderful. That’s enough.

And the thought of having sex to procreate makes me sick. Hard pass.

Thanks R58 for being honest.

by Anonymousreply 6410/26/2020

Something else to note: having kids is the worst possible thing you can do for the environment. The world population is growing exponentially and each carbon foot print counts. With the way things are going with climate change, you are basically murdering a child just by creating their existence.

by Anonymousreply 6510/26/2020

What are those?

by Anonymousreply 6610/26/2020

No! Cash drain and the world will be uninhabitable in 50 years or less.

by Anonymousreply 6710/26/2020

r40 = Amy Coney Barrett

by Anonymousreply 6810/26/2020

Sex is NOT more meaningful because it leads to children. That is an outdated biblical belief. Sex leading to children causes unwanted pregnancies or stupid people trying to raise them and failing miserably because they don’t know what to do.

by Anonymousreply 6910/26/2020

And babies should be banned due to overpopulation.

by Anonymousreply 7010/26/2020

Nope. Not only do I disagree with it ethically (no way in hell would I knowingly bring somebody into this mess of a world), I also love the freedom of being childless. My much older sister has two kids (29 and 27), both of whom I adore and live close to. The eldest has a five year old, whom I take out to lunch about once a week. That's all the "parenting" I'm good for!

Both my nephews know that they're my heirs, so I also get the benefit of knowing I won't be left alone as I age... Again, a win win for all of us. They get "gay uncle" money!

by Anonymousreply 7110/26/2020

Babies should be thrown in the trash. There are way too many of them.

by Anonymousreply 7210/26/2020

I work in higher end furniture sales & the amount of parents that come in with their kids to shop for furniture- BTW- kids LOVE furniture shopping for hours....... Get a fucking babysitter!!!!! Then there are the parents that come in & say, "we have kids, how kid proof in this furniture & fabric"? I usually come back with, " are they running around with sharpies & scissors- you should be fine"...... Knowing the kids WILL destroy their sofa...... Never my kids...... Nope!!!

by Anonymousreply 7310/26/2020

R58 sounds like there is some regret, there. Tell us your tale of woe in more detail.

by Anonymousreply 7410/27/2020

Yes. my husband and I are in our mid 30s and we always wanted to adopt right around this time. But we are suddenly faced with really bad health news and financial news so it doesn't feel responsible to bring a child into our lives. It's kind of crushing actually

by Anonymousreply 7510/27/2020

No, not at all. I find children very exhausting and demanding (Look at me! Listen to me! Me, me, me!!!). I especially dread any gatherings with kids because they're always interrupting. What happened to the good old days when kids were seen and not heard?

by Anonymousreply 7610/27/2020

I have stepchildren and step-grandchildren. I love them, have no problem leaving my money to them, but I think the good Lord was wise in not giving me a burden heavier than I could carry. I mean, diapers, seriously?

by Anonymousreply 7710/27/2020

I have high blood pressure, anemia and hypothyroidism. I'm not going to pass that down to my kids. I'd most likely adopt down the road but right now I don't have the training/experience, financial means or space for a child.

R32 Wasn't one child enough, Patsy!?!

by Anonymousreply 7810/27/2020

For R42:

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by Anonymousreply 7910/27/2020

Not even for a second. I value peace, quiet, and orderliness too much, and frankly there are animals in shelters that need my help more than yet another white, 1st world, resource-sucking child. I regret even less as more time passes and the world edges ever closer to ecologic collapse. To breed now is the HEIGHT of clueless narcissism.

by Anonymousreply 8010/27/2020

I'm glad there are so many sane people on DL!

by Anonymousreply 8110/27/2020

[quote]Why change diapers when you don't have to.

Should be on a t-shirt.

by Anonymousreply 8210/27/2020

And the gay men who either adopt or have surrogates are some of the worst examples of this, as an upthread post pointed out. It's about this repressed desire for heteronormativity and the narcissistic clamoring for validation and acceptance. These are the men who, for years, have secretly envied the hetero fraus and housewives and seized the first opportunity to become one of them since the gays went from social outcasts to the belles of the ball.

Gay crotchfruit is nary more than the culmination of the new age gay success story along with a marriage license and the stallion by your side in every Facebook or Instagram post. Add a golden retriever into the mix and you have particularly good effect. This transpires as each partner cheats on the other, brings home thirds or fourths, and dips regularly into his cups. In short, IT ISN'T ABOUT THE CHILDREN! It's about wearing a sign that says: "Look, we're here! We've made it! We can do it, too! We're just like you! Make room at the PTA, ladies! Here we come!"

And that's the fucking problem.

by Anonymousreply 8310/27/2020

Yep. I most certainly do regret not having children, however, refused to raise them as a single mum because I needed more money than I had. It would have been irresponsible for me to get pregnant and have a child.

by Anonymousreply 8410/27/2020

Half of all people are assholes of one variety or another. They were children born on good intentions and planning. There's a 50-50 chance your little surrogate Jayden or Tyffani with your precious DNA will turn out to be jerks and rob you. Why bother? Besides the diapers of course.

by Anonymousreply 8510/27/2020

One look and my grandparents lot, and I knew starting a family wasn’t the life for me.

My lower-class hillbilly paternal grandparents had nine kids they let run riot and raise each other, all of whom eventually - after years of squabbling and strife and underhanded factionalism- left the derelict gone-broke family farm. All the kids bar one (the eldest, who got lucky in construction and went on to become a respected local foreman & architect) went into lives of either madness and disrepute (jail, sectioning, restraining orders, the works), or an unhappy breeder existence of wage-slavery under the breadline. Despite my father and my one lesbian maiden aunt’s best attempts to keep the family together and afloat, Grandad and Grandma died young (in their sixties) and mentally-deranged and broken-down from the years of backbreaking work and poverty, and we ended up losing all they worked for and inherited.

By contrast, my pretentious social-climbing UMC maternal grandparents had just three kids, who they neglected and shipped off to boarding school at age nine. The two eldest boys took the privileged-asshole ball and ran with it, and their folks didn’t see them for dust once 18th birthdays rolled around. The sons made crazy money in sketchy fields, emigrated, and that was all she wrote. They weren’t even in the country when their dad was in the throes of the long agonising miserable organ failure that would kill him. On the other hand poor mother, the youngest kid, had to deal with her parents financial misadventures and middle-old aged entitlement issues, because she happens to be the dumb brainwashed and unlucky Frau who married badly and doesn’t make enough to get out of Dodge. She & I now take care of my grandmother (in her eighties, slowly declining, still a nasty hag), begrudgingly.

by Anonymousreply 8610/27/2020

R86 - Sorry for your life tragedy, but you’re writing is wonderfully entertaining!

by Anonymousreply 8710/27/2020

I’m glad I had an abortion!

by Anonymousreply 8810/27/2020

R88 - That’s wonderful! I had four abortions.

by Anonymousreply 8910/27/2020

R88 R89 I have a second cousin who had 12 of them (the unofficial world record is 15 which Irene Vilar had). She does have several living children.

by Anonymousreply 9010/27/2020

r90 That sounds so white trash.

by Anonymousreply 9110/27/2020

I've helped out arranging for an abortion. No drama.

by Anonymousreply 9210/27/2020

No, never, and my sisters never wanted children either. I have two cousins and they're also childless. Our branch of the family tree will end when we all die off.

by Anonymousreply 9310/27/2020

r93 I'm jealous! I'm the only childfree person in my family. I have a small family though. I'm an only child and my 1st cousins are also only children.

by Anonymousreply 9410/27/2020

I LOVE Tempest DuJour in OP's photo! RuPaul's Drag Race season 7. The blonde guy.

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by Anonymousreply 9510/27/2020

48??? Too old to become a parent unless you adopt a 10 year old.

by Anonymousreply 9610/27/2020

R96 - I was actually thinking about a 16 year old boy.

by Anonymousreply 9710/27/2020

R96 Really?

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by Anonymousreply 9810/27/2020

Dreams can come true at any age!

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by Anonymousreply 9910/27/2020

I had one child in my early 40s. My brother did the same. We live 3000 miles apart. I’m sad my daughter won’t grow up with cousins— I grew up with them and it was great.

Not close to my parents or my partners family. I think we’re a little too isolated to be raising a child. She’s an angel and I adore her, but I find parenting exhausting.

It’s a bit of a mess. Even though we won the lottery with how great our kid is, I feel guilty and ungrateful for not enjoying being a parent.

by Anonymousreply 10010/27/2020

R98 - that looks child.....being raised in a summer house with Andy Cohen and Kelly Ripa doing lines of cocaine off the kitchen table. Sad.

by Anonymousreply 10110/27/2020

^^^^^ that POOR child ^^^^^

by Anonymousreply 10210/27/2020


Humanity, in whom the best

Of this world’s features are expressed–

The chiefs set over them to reign

Are but as moons that wax and wane.

If ye unto your sons would prove

By act how dearly them ye love,

Then every voice of wisdom joins

To bid you leave them in your loins.

by Anonymousreply 10310/27/2020

I don't, but I wish I could be an uncle/mentor. My nephew is very far away and his parents and I are not that close.

I am sort of torn, as many gay men my age are, between the idea of, pardon the word, queer life - knowing we were very different, very outside of anything heteronormative - and the newer idea that we could have a more traditional family life if we wanted.

I think if it works for a couple, they should do it. I know many women who have, and a few gay couples....though I also know a relatively young gay couple that I'm convinced had kids for all the wrong reasons.

by Anonymousreply 10410/27/2020

I keep reading this headline as “Do you regret not frying chicken?”

I guess I’m hungry.

by Anonymousreply 10510/27/2020

I care about my niece's and nephews (from my husband's side- his siblings' kids) and they're more fun now that they're older and not toddlers or infants. I always knew that I didn't have it in my wheelhouse to be a parent, and I never pursued that. My husband never wanted them either so we were in agreement on that. We can dote on our relatives.

by Anonymousreply 10610/27/2020

More people should consider carefully before breeding. It's a LOT of work to be a good parent, and even then, as others have said, it's a crapshoot. I like my comfortable life and I'm not patient by nature, so I probably would not be a good parent. I'm great in small doses. My young cousins and my friends' kids all like hanging out with me. I don't have to keep them alive.

by Anonymousreply 10710/27/2020

Having a child is one thing.

CARING for a child is, well......frankly, not all it's cracked up to be.

by Anonymousreply 10810/27/2020

R104 - But you CAN be an uncle/mentor. There are organizations you can volunteer for. Be a Big Brother. Reach out to the homeless teens in your city. You don’t have to have a blood relative to make a difference in a young life.

by Anonymousreply 10910/27/2020

No I like my freedom. I also hate the culture of baby worship.

by Anonymousreply 11010/27/2020

R110 - omg “the culture of baby worship.” Couldn’t agree more! It’s awful....I work with three young mothers and it’s all they discuss.

by Anonymousreply 11110/27/2020

I hate it when people can only talk about their kids. As a parent it is my opinion no human is defined by parenthood

by Anonymousreply 11210/27/2020

My mothers youngest sister was the last of her siblings to have a kid. When we were younger, she was everyone's favorite fun aunt.

When she became a parent (I was around 11) ...pretty much the end of that.

by Anonymousreply 11310/27/2020

R113 =DJ Conner

by Anonymousreply 11410/27/2020

Lol R114...honestly, pretty accurate.

by Anonymousreply 11510/27/2020

No, I don't regret not having children. I know I would have been a terrible parent.

by Anonymousreply 11610/27/2020

I had a terrible, emotionally abusive childhood. I have never wanted children because I would be frightened of unconsciously replicating that. And I can’t stand kids. Noisy little bastards.

by Anonymousreply 11710/27/2020

R8 - most parents are that way. Look at me and the kids! It's not any different for gay parents.

by Anonymousreply 11810/27/2020

Based on finances alone, I don't regret not having children.

by Anonymousreply 11910/27/2020

R119 same. My life is great (for me) but the cost of a decent life for a child...I'd be living with my parents.

by Anonymousreply 12010/27/2020

I would probably unintentionally inflict a great deal of emotional damage and benign neglect. I also came of age in time when gay men married women if they wanted a family, and I knew that was never happening, so basically never gave it serious thought.

by Anonymousreply 12110/27/2020

I have wonderful nieces that I help raise. Wow, they're alot of work--Way more than you would ever think when you say "I wish I were a parent."

by Anonymousreply 12210/27/2020

American culture certainly encourages the young to get married, buy a house, and have children. I, to my own surprise, have done all three. And while I love my husband, home, and daughter, all of them are hard work and unending maintenance. They are, at times, as much burden as joy.

And I regret nothing, but I always tell the young that each of these experiences have their cost of time, energy, and resources. While I hope they listen and make wise choices in these matters, most of the time I get the impression that they think they will know how to work it better than I. But that is the young for you.

by Anonymousreply 12310/27/2020

Gold star gay here who came out of the closet a little later than most. Even when I was dating women I never wanted children and that was reinforced when my younger brother started to procreate.

I watched him as he treated his children exactly the way our dad treated us and that not a good example to follow.

by Anonymousreply 12410/27/2020

Gays and lesbians who feel the need to have children are overcompensating.

You, and the way you live, and the people you choose to love are enough. And you will never, ever have everyone's approval.

by Anonymousreply 12510/27/2020

Where I live children are a FETISH along with oak trees and Trader Joe's. People here obsess over them. I live in a small section of Los Angeles where Housecows and Houseoafs RULE!

by Anonymousreply 12610/27/2020

IMO, having children, for some people, is something to check off their list.

However, for other people, having children is a burning desire. Some people are just motherly or fatherly and have a lot of that energy to give.

Personally, I would feel used-up by changing diapers & doing all the thankless tasks that go along with being a parent. Other people are OK with it.

by Anonymousreply 12710/27/2020

My neighbor admitted to us one night over a glass of wine that she regretted having children. Her son was in and out of jail with mental issues in his 30s, and her daughter was a bi-polar dramatic mess that calls her and screams “I hate you mother!” She said they brought her nothing but despair.

by Anonymousreply 12810/27/2020

I have the one thing my mother didn't have - The foresight to know I'd be a terrible parent.

by Anonymousreply 12910/27/2020

R129 So you wish you were not conceived or given to adoption? Weird.

by Anonymousreply 13010/27/2020

[quote]Do you regret not having children?

Aborted? No.

by Anonymousreply 13110/27/2020

It was never really an option for me, but yes, my heart aches to be a dad. With all the aggravations, I want to be a dad.

by Anonymousreply 13210/27/2020

R91 Unfortunately half of that side of the family is.

by Anonymousreply 13310/27/2020

Most of these people breed to perpetuate their toxic, lethal bloodlines that do nothing but produce the monsters of tomorrow. And tomorrow is today!!!

by Anonymousreply 13410/27/2020

It was never an option for me, emotionally and physically. I had a horrific childhood which not only left me with a distaste for family life and a deep suspicion of all parents, I've had to spend much of my adult life fixing myself, trying to make myself into a functioning adult. And then, a medical crisis cost me my fertility in my thirties, and that settled that.

If only all of life's big questions could be answered as easily! Because yeah, there was never any question of my having children.

by Anonymousreply 13510/27/2020

No I do not regret not having children. Not in any way.

by Anonymousreply 13610/27/2020

I just took a dump so large I swear it came out sideways.

I’m guessing that’s the same thing as having a kid, so I’m set.

by Anonymousreply 13710/27/2020

I'll keep this concise. My partner of, at the time, ten years and I adopted a newborn girl. Ten years later, I can attest that having a baby is the most profoundly disruptive thing one can do to one's life. I would not change a thing.

Almost every day brings an epiphany of some sort, and I love it.

by Anonymousreply 13810/27/2020

My husband and I have two kids. It really is a life-altering event, as r138 said. A lot of work for sure. But I don't regret a thing. It's made me much happier overall.

It's not for everyone, but for some, as r127 said, it's a burning desire to become a parent. It was the case for me. I got lucky that my dream came true.

Oh, and I don't care if some people think it's a heteronormativity or vanity thing. I don't give a fuck about it. What I care about is to do my best everyday to raise my kids into kind and thoughtful adults.

by Anonymousreply 13910/27/2020

Dear GOD, no! We all would have been miserable.

And poor.

by Anonymousreply 14010/27/2020

Two friends adopted a ten year old boy who was extremely bright and did brilliantly in school ...The kid dominated their lives and they merrily could not talk about anything else. A few years later, the kids "fell in with the wrong crowd:" and became a dropout drug addict without a job and expects his dads to support him. My friends have aged 20 years and are miserable - they told me the last time I saw them the worst thing they ever did was adopting a kid.

by Anonymousreply 14110/27/2020

R139 people like you who truly and deeply want to be parents should be parents. I just wonder what percentage of parents actually had that drive.

by Anonymousreply 14210/27/2020

R138, R139, good for you two. Not everyone (like myself) wishes to have children but if you two want to be fathers, go right ahead. (And I'm not being snarky either.)

by Anonymousreply 14310/27/2020

No and yes. I started developing an anti-natalist POV as a poor, abused child, for obvious reasons. I never wanted to create and risk subjecting a child suffering. I worked hard over the years to improve myself and secure an education and decent wages. For a long time I entertained the idea of adopting. Twice I had partners who earned a fine living, and very much wanted children. I could never bring myself take those relationships to that next level. I never fully trusted that they would not abandon me to struggle as a single mother. I absolutely do not regret not birthing children or exhausting my tenuous resources trying to raise them. At 50, however, my social circle is small, consisting of mostly childless-people my age. When I see others with happy, healthy adult children and grandchildren, I sometimes wish I'd built that kind of social circle up. Knowing the misery all up and down my lineage, though, I don't really know if I would have been able to overcome the dysfunction and build this. I almost feel like I do have a child somewhere in the ether, but I protected them from this world by not bringing them into it. On that front I feel like a champ.

by Anonymousreply 14410/28/2020

r142 I imagine less than half are natural-born parents. The rest are lemmings.

by Anonymousreply 14510/28/2020

Let us have a moment of silent thanks for being gay, and are spared from accidental pregnancies. Or "accidental" ones.

by Anonymousreply 14610/28/2020

Children think they are smarter than adults, so they don't listen.

by Anonymousreply 14710/28/2020

r109 Excellent point

by Anonymousreply 14810/28/2020

r141 - a friend's sister and her husband have a similar story. They paid to have a "potential parent portfolio" made where they could convince single mothers that they would be the best people to adopt a child. Then they picked a mother with past drug problems because they "felt sorry for her."

The tales were legion, including the single mother moving in with them for the last month and just not moving out (after the baby came, she took to topless sunbathing in the backyard while hubby was home). From a young age the kid was obviously genetically damaged -- loved guns, LOVED fire, and was telling the adoptive parents "I'm gonna kill you" from around the age of four.

The sister, who had been sober for years, fell off the wagon. The husband was thinking of leaving the whole thing and starting over.

Come to think of it, I need an update!

by Anonymousreply 14910/28/2020

[quote]R141 My friends have aged 20 years and are miserable - they told me the last time I saw them the worst thing they ever did was adopting a kid.

Well, as we’ve discussed here before, adoptees are a shifty, devious lot... worming their ways into the homes of the blissfully unsuspecting.

by Anonymousreply 15010/28/2020

If I could afford fulltime childcare, I'd have kids.

by Anonymousreply 15110/28/2020

Sometimes yes, but I decided that I didn't want to raise kids without a mother....I know I'm going to get skewered for saying that.

Instead I enjoy my nieces and nephews and in my way have molded their thoughts and outlook on many things by letting them see thing from a gay man's perspective.

by Anonymousreply 15210/28/2020

I’ve never wanted my own. But I exposed three nephews to as much gay culture as I could during their formative years. I took them to gay events, parties, and even Pride festi. At least one turned out gay as a result. He’s 30 and living in West Hollywood now. One of the others I suspect may be gay, just hasn’t come out yet. When he turns 21 next year I’ll take him to his first gay bar (granted it’s safe with Covid by then.)

by Anonymousreply 15310/29/2020

R153 you’ve turned your nephews gay?

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by Anonymousreply 15410/29/2020

Yeah R153 you sound like an Anita Bryant talking point Or a miserable Fundie troll.

by Anonymousreply 15510/29/2020

R155 his nephew's nickname for R153 is Uncle Badtouch

by Anonymousreply 15610/29/2020

I regret seeing the same fucking thread topic every two months.

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by Anonymousreply 15710/29/2020

Seeing easily 50% of the nieces, nephews and cousins kids turn out with problems - from mental illness, addiction, homelessness, unplanned pregnancy and general sloth/laziness - and seeing the trauma that caused their parents, has confirmed my life long opinion about not having kids. All of these kids had comfortable lives - no extreme poverty or abuse. To witness their parents suffering and constant disappointment makes me sad.

Maybe some kids with the right parents and genetic makeup - and ultimately just dumb luck - turn out ok and are a comfort to parents in old age. But I’m seeing that as an exception rather than the norm.

by Anonymousreply 15810/29/2020



by Anonymousreply 15910/29/2020

Never! My warped and miserable DNA dies with me I only wish my mom had felt the same way.

by Anonymousreply 16010/29/2020

The breeder lifestyle is seriously overrated. More and more heteros are opting out with each generation.

by Anonymousreply 16110/29/2020

I have concluded through observation that children and marriage are the two leading causes of insanity.

by Anonymousreply 16210/29/2020

Sometimes, I feel a flash of regret. But then today, in the grocery store parking lot, in the pouring rain, beside a giant SUV (which is a necessary status symbol for all moms where I live), I spotted a mom trying to put a jacket on her 6-year-old son as he screamed and repeatedly slapped her. Maybe that child had autism...or maybe he was just having a bad day (Mom interrupted his favorite cartoon to make him go to the store). I contentedly drove home to my quiet apartment in my tiny car.

by Anonymousreply 16310/29/2020

The world of heterosexual is a sick and boring life.

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by Anonymousreply 16410/29/2020

How can I regret something I never had a chance to do? Surrogacy is disgusting and only wealthy people can afford it. When I was of parenting age gay adoption was illegal and single adoption was highly unusual. Gay people couldn't even be foster parents. I'm not 100 years old, either. I'm just a few years older than OP.

by Anonymousreply 16510/29/2020

I know of so many parents with autistic children, three within my own extended family. Just shows that whether you have your own children or adopt, there are no guarantees the child will be 100% healthy.

by Anonymousreply 16610/30/2020


I do regret the PARENTS on this thread running their mouths. The title is do you regret NOT having children. I don’t give a fuck that it’s the hardest job you’ve ever done but most rewarding blah blah blah bullshit.

Even when a discussion is about being child free - breeders have to involve themselves and talk about their children. It’s pathological. Might as well be a bunch of pushy fraus from Facebook.

I know it’s seemingly impossible to believe, but I don’t care about your children and your decision to have them.

by Anonymousreply 16710/30/2020

It seems like every kid in our town has speech problems, is autistic, or needs an IEP (code for “slow.”)

It’s too bad for the smart kids— they are stuck in large classes with all these higher needs kids.

by Anonymousreply 16810/30/2020

I like to think I would have raised happy children who loved me - though it seems hard to imagine the person I am doing that - however, the person I am isn't necessarily the person I would force myself to be if I was responsible for raising functioning adults.

So I miss the idea of a having a loving family to rely on when I am less able to rely on myself in old age. I'll probably get murdered by a my housekeeper or something.

I don't regret not having children but I can appreciate how life would have been different in positive ways if I had.

by Anonymousreply 16910/30/2020

Society is so toxic that would never happen R169.

by Anonymousreply 17010/30/2020

Yes and no. It's such a crapshoot. And I'm not a risk taker.

by Anonymousreply 17110/30/2020

I would never buy anything that came without a warranty or which I could not return!

by Anonymousreply 17210/30/2020

r167 totally agree with you.

Shut up about your spawn. We the childfree, don't care you had nothing else in your life to give it meaning. And here's a clue: we really don't want to hang out with you and your kids. I'm an adult. I want to spend my time with other adults not wondering where little Madison ran off to or hearing about her latest potty training incident.

I have a friend who never wanted kids and would joke about it all the time to me. Then she decided to squeeze one out and our friendship died because I would invite her out and she would ALWAYS drag her husband and child with her. It didn't even matter if I said, "Adults Only" she just assumed she could bring her along. Needless to say, we don't talk much now.

by Anonymousreply 17310/31/2020

You seem really nice, R173. I bet you have a lot of other friends.

by Anonymousreply 17410/31/2020

Why would anyone, gay or straight, want to bring children into the world we now inhabit?

by Anonymousreply 17510/31/2020

Raising kids seems like a ton of work, and I fear my shiftless ways would be a problem.

by Anonymousreply 17610/31/2020

I've never wanted children and I think I'd be a terrible parent. But when I was young, I got a woman pregnant, and without telling me, she had an abortion.

I never saw her again, but a couple of years later, I ran into her friend, and she told me about the abortion, because she thought I had the right to know.

I don't blame the woman at all for the abortion. She was single and working, I lived in a different city in the same state and was a college student working a crap job and had no money or stability. I was also gay, and she and I were barely friends, certainly not someone either of us would want to be tied into a relationship with.

Still, it has been a lifelong regret that I wasn't given the option of stepping up to the plate and taking responsibility. It was my child, and it was the only time that was ever going to occur.

But I don't blame her or have any negative feelings against her. It's just a little tender place in my heart that aches for what might have been.

by Anonymousreply 17710/31/2020

R177 - I understand brief moments of wondering what your life would have been like, but if you honestly had to make the choice yourself would you really have done anything differently -- as you said, "she and I were barely friends, certainly not someone either of us would want to be tied into a relationship with" -- so why all the regret? Things most certainly worked out for the best.

by Anonymousreply 17810/31/2020

R178, oh, I know completely, and as I said, I would be a terrible parent. I have no real regrets, as I said, it's just a tender place in my heart, because I never expected to be a parent, and knowing the possibility existed for a few weeks makes me wonder what might have been.

by Anonymousreply 17910/31/2020

Regret is a wasted emotion. Particularly where chidden are concerned.

by Anonymousreply 18010/31/2020

no i do not

by Anonymousreply 18110/31/2020

Supporters of the child-free life should checkout the "childfree" forum on reddit. Straight people get tons of pressure from their parents to produce grand babies. Being gay gives many of us an exemption from the traditional "life script" of marriage, house, kids...

My grandparents had to get married in their late teens after they got knocked up. An aunt committed suicide after her 24-year-old son died. He had been her only child and the center of her life; she was ungrounded without him. An uncle works full time in his 70s because all three of his grown kids constantly begged him for money to pay for their legal fees, rehab fees, and child expenses. An aunt devoted her life to raising her only daughter. The daughter now has a great job and makes a lot of money but is not interested in family...and never calls her mom.

You can love your kids and work hard to give them everything, and you can still end up unappreciated and unrewarded for it. And if they ever touch drugs, you might lose them for life, either by overdose or paying for them to go to rehab 12 times over the decades and dealing with their depression.

by Anonymousreply 18210/31/2020

r177: You dodged a bullet.

by Anonymousreply 18310/31/2020

I’m 47. Live off of a trust fund. Have life long depression due to childhood trauma/abuse. I fear I would not be a good father even though deep inside I think I would be. I’m a good dog dad.

by Anonymousreply 18410/31/2020

r174, I do have a lot of friends. Most I've known for over 20 years. I have two with has adult kids and the woman I was speaking of has a 10 year old. The others have no kids and never wanted them. I'm lucky in that most of my friends find kids to be annoying as me!

by Anonymousreply 18510/31/2020

I don’t have any children ... THAT IM AWARE OF HA HA HA.

by Anonymousreply 18610/31/2020

[quote]R173 We the childfree, don't care you had nothing else in your life to give it meaning.

Hear, hear! Some of us find meaning in life by seeking out and bringing much needed attention to punctuation errors.

by Anonymousreply 18711/01/2020

r167 *eyeroll* Totally! The question was clearly addressed to the childless and the childfree. Breeders clearly lose reading and comprehension skills once they spawn.

by Anonymousreply 18811/01/2020

[quote]R167 I do regret the PARENTS on this thread running their mouths. The title is do you regret NOT having children. I don’t give a fuck that it’s the hardest job you’ve ever done but most rewarding blah blah blah bullshit.

Well, forcing themselves to fuck YOU (or escaping) is probably the hardest job others have ever done.... so really, it’s all relative.

by Anonymousreply 18911/01/2020


by Anonymousreply 19011/01/2020

[quote]I do regret the PARENTS on this thread running their mouths. The title is do you regret NOT having children. I don’t give a fuck that it’s the hardest job you’ve ever done but most rewarding blah blah blah bullshit.

It does make one wish for infinite FFs, doesn't it?

by Anonymousreply 19111/01/2020

Having children is not rewarding.

by Anonymousreply 19211/01/2020

[quote]Not all couple can procreate naturally, whether gay or straight.

Actually, all gay people cannot procreate naturally. It's part of the joy of being us.

by Anonymousreply 19311/01/2020

I would think parents expressing regret are a relevant contribution to the conversation. It might ring comfort to others.

Of course the bitter, stupid cunts among us would fail to understand that.

by Anonymousreply 19411/01/2020

^^yes, quite. It's frowned upon to say that one wishes they hadn't had their children.

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by Anonymousreply 19511/01/2020

I'm sure my mom regretted it. She had dreamed of it since childhood. She dropped out of college and grabbed a man asap so that she could start pumping out the babies she'd always dreamed of. Cooking, cleaning, and watching three small kids got old, really quick, especially when they refused to mold into her model of perfection. When I was 9, she got a job. She didn't love the job, and she gave most of her money to child care, but she wanted to get the hell out of the house. Most neighborhood dads weren't much help, as they got home from work and planted their asses on the couch, only getting up to eat dinner and go to bed.

by Anonymousreply 19611/01/2020

Oh God NO! I much prefer being the fun uncle.

by Anonymousreply 19711/01/2020

I didn't choose my sexual preference but I did choose NOT to be a parent. It was a very good decision for me.

by Anonymousreply 19811/01/2020

How we feel about kids:

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by Anonymousreply 19911/01/2020

Insanity runs in my family, which is enough reason not to risk passing it on to some innocent baby. Taking care of animals is rewarding for me and helpful for the animals, so we've all been happy with that arrangement.

by Anonymousreply 20011/01/2020

I do sometimes wonder what sort of father I would've been... but I have seven godchildren and I remain fairly involved in their lives, and am even a "great uncle" to the older ones who've now had kids of their own. When I was 18, I began traveling to "third world" countries, which put me into situations where I saw hordes of unwanted street kids, many in very adverse locales. It affected me greatly, as I remember saying "the world does not need more children." Many years later, I still believe that... i.e. these days I really think many people bring a child into this world as an ego-driven thing... So no, no regrets.

by Anonymousreply 20111/01/2020

Rarely does a parent say they regret kids. Yet there is rarely a logical reason to have them. There is a fulfillment to it in some form perhaps - and a connection to a person no matter how estranged you become. Even if you are a shitty parent, you know when you are dying that your life affected someone and I guess that provides a sense of purpose.

Ultimately an ego trip. Altruism is a myth.

by Anonymousreply 20211/01/2020

The way this world is destroying itself, I think all procreation should halt and we should end humanity. It can only continue to worsen from here.

by Anonymousreply 20311/02/2020

^^^^^ Tik Tok^^^^^ is destroying us

by Anonymousreply 20411/02/2020

Whenever I wants kids, I just go to the nearest destitute African country and buy a couple of them, just like Angelina, Madonna and Mia. And when I get tired of them, I drop them off at the nearest hospital or homeless shelter. It's so much easier than the other way.

by Anonymousreply 20511/02/2020

I’m 50, but when I’m 65 and retire, I’m gonna get a “kid” and sponsor him to get an education. He’ll have housekeeping skills and cookie skills as well, and live in my spare bedroom.

by Anonymousreply 20611/02/2020

41 year old woman (single). No, but living in the Midwest makes me feel "less than" for not having kids. The culture is everywhere here. Since I was young, I was never a kid person or desired a traditional family. My life has been very untraditional. I do want a partner and some pets though. Hopefully soon!!

by Anonymousreply 20711/02/2020

R207 - Sending Good thoughts your way! Don’t give up....I didn’t find my partner until my late 30s.

by Anonymousreply 20811/02/2020

i consider my not having children one of a few true blessings in my liife.

Elder gay

by Anonymousreply 20911/02/2020

Hell. The. Fuck. No.

My friends with kids live in a world that from the outside looks stressful, draining, anxiety-ridden. Also, some of these friends have turned into utterly self-absorbed monsters, using their children as a vehicle for their entitlement and boorish behavior.

I remember when rounds of layoffs were happening at my company a few years ago. People who were let go lost their fucking shit - crying, yelling, etc - all because they had kids, big mortgages, etc. Watching them, I felt such relief that I had no such responsibilities.

Not having kids has enabled my partner and I to have a very nice life. We have a big rent-stabilized apartment. I’m a freelance copywriter, so I work on average 8 months a year and take weeks off at a time. Because my partner works in the NYC school system, he has summers off. Last summer, we spent 8 weeks traveling the South of France, Spain, Portugal. It was fucking awesome.

None of that would be possible if we had kids. Yeah, it might suck when we’re older. But we will have money to give away when we die and my partner has a few lovely nieces and nephews that we are close with. So I’m not too worried about having a support system when we’re elder gays.

But yeah, so so happy not to have kids.

by Anonymousreply 21011/02/2020

R210 - totally agree. It’s almost “cosmic Karma” when you think of all we as young gays had to endure. Now we enjoy a life of freedom and have purposes much more significant than raising children.

by Anonymousreply 21111/02/2020

My sister says she has never felt deeper love than what she has with her kids. (Maybe it’s a female thing.) But if a great deal of life is about giving and receiving love, that’s a good thing to have in your life.

They’re both very well behaved, though. So that must make it easier.

by Anonymousreply 21211/02/2020

[quote{R211 Now we enjoy a life of freedom and have purposes much more significant than raising children.

Yes. Contributing to DataLounge.

by Anonymousreply 21311/02/2020

N-O. I dodged a bullet about 20’years ago when I thought I wanted kids. My then longterm partner was not interested and wisely suggested we start out with dogs rather than an adopted Chinese baby girl. It was the best thing he ever did in our relationship. I realize now I like babies and infants but loathe children older than that. And I’d never have had the money to ship her off to boarding school.

by Anonymousreply 21411/02/2020

I've heard the same thing R212 and I believe they mean it. HOWEVER, I think that feeling can change drastically once a child grows up. The older children get, the more heartache they can cause.

by Anonymousreply 21511/02/2020

[quote] that feeling can change drastically once a child grows up. The older children get, the more heartache they can cause.

Absolutely, R215. And that feeling can go the other way, too.

Unfortunately, I clearly remember my father falling out of love for me, how painful it was. He adored me when I was cute and innocent, an unspoilt obedient little doll who thought Daddy could do no wrong; the minute I turned about 10 or 11, and started asking adult questions and expressing uncomfortable independent emotions and getting acne and growing tall he went instantly cold on me. His feelings changed like a light going out; no longer did I get hugs, or asked about my day, or taken to see cheap matinees of films, or given tea & biscuits to dry my tears. He just stopped caring when I hit puberty, and that was that. For a girl who went through a lonely hell of adolescence, that support was about the worst thing to lose beside that of my siblings.

I've never understood it, or completely forgiven it. Now I'm almost thirty - and he's in his sixties getting physically weaker and pushed out of the workforce - he's strangely started trying to cosy up to me again, but I think that's only because he's feeling his mortality/loneliness/vulnerability and therefore wants to make me a future nurse or a handmaid for his line - no fucking thanks. Perhaps he's seen his mistake (he never treated my little sister as shabbily as me), but I'm not inclined to give him much sympathy without an explanation and an apology at the least. We have a chilly and taciturn but cordial relationship now. Some men just want to use you to assuage their own existential angst, even if you're their flesh and blood.

This, among a couple of other big health reasons, is why I have decided not to have children. I am terrified that I'd end up feeling the same way about them and treating them as my father did about me.

by Anonymousreply 21611/02/2020

R216 - Amazingly insightful. I’ve never heard this point of view before. Thank you.

by Anonymousreply 21711/02/2020

[quote]R214 My then longterm partner was not interested and wisely suggested we start out with dogs rather than an adopted Chinese baby girl. It was the best thing he ever did in our relationship.

Well THAT’S not a glowing endorsement.

by Anonymousreply 21811/02/2020

[quote]R215 I think that feeling can change drastically once a child grows up. The older children get, the more heartache they can cause.

My niece and nephew are in college, and high school.

There’s still time for them to fuck up, of course.

by Anonymousreply 21911/02/2020

R216 - have you thought about asking him and talking about what happened? It won’t change the past but it lay allow you to be a bit closer to him now - without consenting to ever being his nursemaid of course.

by Anonymousreply 22011/02/2020

R216 that's a thoughtful, sweet suggestion and a nice idea, but respectfully and frankly I don't think it would bear fruit nor do I see why I should (or why anyone in my position should).

My father is a tough nut, you see - a gruff blue-collar man, a victim of trauma himself (his parents were an abusive drunk and a neglectful agoraphobic, who let roam the streets as a child delinquent), and completely unable and unwilling to discuss emotions or make amends for anything in his life. He's bitter, negative. antisocial, and doesn't treat my mother as well as I'd like. While I don't blame him or punish him for his awful past, I realise that it isn't my fault and I am not obligated to bear the legacy of that pain. Getting him to open up and heal...well, I think it's beyond the reach of anyone; I don't think there's a 'there', there.

Besides, I've already attempted it. When I was about eighteen, I screwed up my courage to try appealing to his empathy and asking why he'd decided to cut me off emotionally. It did not go well. He froze up on me, said he didn't care about my tender feelings, and essentially told me to grow a set and get out of his life. What can you do, after that?

In my ideal world, my mother would divorce him so she could enjoy her retirement and work less instead of supporting him, but she 'loves' him and gets along with him still, so. Not to get too heavy, but this whole situation growing up with them left me messed up about relationships and families and unable to trust that anyone would treat me decently.

I implore anyone here who has a daughter, or is going to father to a little girl in future; from the start please keep an open line of communication with her, and show her consistent affection, and listen closely to her, and throughout your days together share your feelings with her in a mutual respectful exchange. As she grows the going will get tough, thanks to the natural misunderstandings between men and women, but stay strong and keep your connection with her going.

by Anonymousreply 22111/02/2020

R218 given his subsequent decline into alcoholism and bipolar disorder for which he refused to take meds that IS the best endorsement I can make.

by Anonymousreply 22211/03/2020

No. And I know very few people who are truly happy they did. When many people are brutally honest, they register resentment and sometimes outright dislike/worse for their kids. I feel sorry for kids who are more or less 'trophy' children for their parents. I am surrounded by examples of this, unfortunately. A friend is anxiously awaiting the end of insurance coverage for one of her kids' psychiatric hospital stay: The adolescent girl went berserk in July, starting hearing voices, tried to saw off her own head with a handsaw and then threatened to kill the whole family. I am often speechless about the things the girl has put my friend through. Having kids is a really bad crap shoot.

by Anonymousreply 22311/03/2020

^ and by 'anxiously awaiting', I don't mean in a good way. She is dreading the kid's return to the household. She has fucked up four other peoples' lives!

by Anonymousreply 22411/03/2020

[quote]Do you regret not having children?

Yes and no.

by Anonymousreply 22511/03/2020

Not at all. Climate Change is destroying this world. More diseases will come thanks to use being a global citizenry and living closer with animals. Automation will destroy jobs unless politicians get their acts together.

Bringing a child into this world is, at its core, a senseless act. A child does not NEED to be created the way humans NEED food or water. It's understandable to want to give love to something, but get a pet or ADOPT a child; a human being who has already been created. Don't create one out of scratch.

Remember, having children dooms them to a horrible adulthood/senior citizenship; the planet is gonna get BAD in about 40 years.

That said, expressing this view is worse, I'd argue, than racism, sexism, homophobia or anything else.

by Anonymousreply 22611/03/2020

Nope but I could push one out.

by Anonymousreply 22711/04/2020

Nope and I know plenty of women who don't regret it either. Interestingly the women I know who have kids and regret having them only had children because their partner/husbands wanted them.

by Anonymousreply 22811/04/2020

Thanks to janky inbred hillbilly genes as well as an increasingly poisoned and polluted environment, my kids would doubtless end up with autoimmune disorders out the door. So no, it wouldn’t be fair to pass that on.

by Anonymousreply 22911/05/2020

You know, now that I'm in my early 30s, I do feel a weird desire to have kids -- almost more maternal than paternal, in the sense that when I see a cute baby animal (including human ones), I feel the need to nurture the shit out of it, really smother it with love and make sure it's okay. That said, with my health issues, I think it would be cruel and irresponsible of me to reproduce. Plus, the world seems to be going to hell, although I suppose it always has been. Also, I can't even keep my plants alive, so there's that. I'll just help take care of my niece and whatever other beautiful fuck-trophies my sister produces.

And lol @ R24. I feel the exact opposite about the intelligence thing. Like, at a certain level, I don't think it's something that's nice to pass on. I used to complain to my psychologist all the time about getting bored with everything and everyone very quickly, and about how I was just constantly ruminating about bullshit. I just assumed it was the mood disorder, but my psychologist would say, completely seriously, "Well, since you hit the ceiling of the WAIS-IV, you need to find somebody with an IQ of at least 150." I just remember impulsively laughing at him, because it seemed like such an indecorous thing to say. Like, do I really need to fuck my way through MIT's physics department to find a suitable partner? Anyway, to cut this humble-brag short, I do think there's a slight kernel of truth to the idea that being too smart can be isolating. So I wouldn't want to pass that isolation on to my child.

by Anonymousreply 23011/07/2020

R228 yup

by Anonymousreply 23111/07/2020

[quote]My psychologist would say, completely seriously, "Well, since you hit the ceiling of the WAIS-IV, you need to find somebody with an IQ of at least 150."

At what age were you given the WAIS-IV, r230? Would it have been given to a ninth-grader in 1965?

by Anonymousreply 23211/07/2020

Well, for one thing, it wouldn’t have been the WAIS-IV in 1965. Also it is normed only for adults, although there is a version that can be administered to children.

by Anonymousreply 23311/07/2020

I am smart enough to find most people and things boring, stupid, and/or full of shit.

But not so smart that I didn’t have to study in school.

It’s the worst of both worlds.

I highly recommend being dumb as shit OR freaky brilliant . No in-between.

by Anonymousreply 23411/09/2020

I doted on my niece and nephew... I hardly hear anything from them. Learned my lesson. And if I am resentful towards them for not communicating with me I can only imagine what I’d be like if they were MY children.

I don’t need to be a parent or a partner.

And get off my lawn.

by Anonymousreply 23511/09/2020

I never had the desire to have children. I know other gay men for whom that was their life's goal. I'm happy they achieved it and they're usually very involved parents. I just have no interest or patience in raising children. My brother and I were raised by a father who clearly never wanted kids. It's no fun to grow up in an environment like that. My brother wanted kids and was actually too lenient and involved as a father--yes, my niece and nephew are the special snowflake generation. But I remember what it was like to grow up with one parent who clearly didn't want us, and I would never do that to a child. More people, men and women, straight, gay, or whatever, need to really think about whether they want kids. If you're in serious doubt, don't do it.

My partner, whose family was religious, went the marriage/kids route before coming out and has a son and daughter. Less so the daughter, but both kids are special snowflakes, entitled, and all they ever do is demand, demand, demand. Love to them equals money and things. I can't stand to be around either of them. The only time they come around or call my partner is when they want something. They know I can't stand them, they know why, and they know I'm right, too. I'm always civil, but I'm not going out of my way to get to know such selfish characters.

by Anonymousreply 23611/09/2020

I always give the side-eye to couples who want children, but only because they get to treat their children like accessories, and otherwise have no interest in them beyond parading them in brand-new outfits. What better way to show off to all the Moms on Facebook that you're a better parent than they are?

I do feel sorry for women who don't want children, though. I have a younger cousin who told me she has no desire to have children of her own, and she's pretty much treated like a pariah by family, and society in general. "How could this young woman not want children? Is there something wrong with her? There *must* be something wrong with her," is basically how she's treated. It's really gross to see how women are treated when they say they do NOT want to be baby factories forever and ever.

by Anonymousreply 23711/09/2020

And society is harsher on women who publicly announce their desire not to have kids. Men to a degree, but women are condemned for it.

by Anonymousreply 23811/09/2020

If we want to take back our country, then Democrats/gays need to start having children. You can bet that Deplorables will continue to have kids.

by Anonymousreply 23911/09/2020

Yes, the deplorables have nothing else to do.

Cletus can’t figure out how to wrap his dick and Lurleen’s only vocational skill is shootng babies out of her twat every 9 months.

by Anonymousreply 24011/09/2020

[quote] I doted on my niece and nephew... I hardly hear anything from them.

IMO, that rudeness is partly the parents’ fault. I recently was very honest w/my brother about how he never paved the way for me to have a relationship w/my nephew and vice-versa. My nephew became a gift recipient basically, and I stopped giving gifts at a certain point.

by Anonymousreply 24111/09/2020

Yes r241. I didn’t get along with the mother. She and my brother were selfish narcissistic druggies and they were neglectful and abusive towards the kids. My mother did the bulk of taking care of them when they were children. I helped out a lot and bought them food and clothing whenever I could. Babysitting too. The SIL used them as a bargaining chip. My brother too, but she was worse. She lied, stole and even turned tricks - in front of the children to support her crack habit. The kids support her like they’re in a cult. Now they barely acknowledge me and don’t even care about my mom anymore. She’s in a nursing home with dementia and before the pandemic they seldom visited her.

by Anonymousreply 24211/10/2020

Gay men seem to loathe their sister-in-laws. I wonder if they think they "stole" him from the family.

by Anonymousreply 24311/10/2020

She is a cunt, r243, at least in my case. So is her mother. And they have turned my niece into one. She was the sweetest baby. Now she’s shallow, materialistic and only concerned about money and men. Her mom and maternal grandmother are both very materialistic.

by Anonymousreply 24411/10/2020

R237 and R238, I have a female cousin who always knew she didn't want children. Her parents had an abusive relationship with each other and also with their four children, and she wanted no part of any kind of life that included a husband and children. But in her early 20s, she couldn't find a doctor who would tie her tubes to make her sterile. She went to something like 6 or 7 doctors, and none of them would do it, because they insisted she would change her mind and want children eventually. In her late 20s, she finally found a doctor who would do it, and she has never regretted it.

by Anonymousreply 24511/10/2020

R244, my brother married an unsavory woman as well. At a certain point, it's my brother's fault. He married her.

by Anonymousreply 24611/10/2020

My sister-in-law was like the sister I never had. We got along wonderfully. Sadly we lost her to cancer a few years ago. Although, as much as I loved her and as much as I love my brother, they really didn't do their kids any favors with the special snowflake upbringing. They are good kids in the sense that they don't do anything to harm people and aren't on drugs or anything like that, but they just expect their parents, now just my brother, to handle everything. And he dutifully does, despite the fact that one is mid-20s, the other 30 years old. Neither works. Unbelievable.

by Anonymousreply 24711/10/2020

R240 Sounds familiar. R U 2% owl?

by Anonymousreply 24811/10/2020

I regret not adopting older kids. Who will do my dishes?!?

by Anonymousreply 24911/10/2020

r249 - And the younger ones tend to burn cocktails and over pour at parties.

by Anonymousreply 25011/11/2020

I eventually learned that it's not for everyone.

by Anonymousreply 25111/12/2020

I like the idea of adult children, and grandchildren. I've never loved the idea of raising children.

Somehow I'd like to maybe adopt adult children or adopt grandchildren or something.

I've had this idea for years: There should be some kind of nonprofit or agency that arranges such things, for childless older people who have means, and would enjoy putting grandchildren through university, as one example. Call it Lavender Grandparents (or something not obvious and dumb), and allow people to create new families that aren't about raising kids. There are all kinds of families.

Anyway, that's my idea. But I don't want to do it. I wish someone would do it. Anyone want that idea? It's yours!

by Anonymousreply 25211/12/2020

r252, I put myself into foster care at age 11 and haven't spoken to family since. you can adopt me :) unless you have me on ignore

by Anonymousreply 25311/12/2020

R252, there used to be an organization called Foster Grandparents that hooked children and elders up sort of like Big Brothers Big Sisters. I haven't heard of them recently, but they may still exist.

by Anonymousreply 25411/12/2020

R249, Call me.

by Anonymousreply 25511/12/2020

r204 r203 How is tik tok helping to destroy our world??

by Anonymousreply 25611/20/2020

[quote] Somehow I'd like to maybe adopt adult children or adopt grandchildren or something.

I would think many times before doing this. See this article about Doris Duke, who adopted an adult woman and lived to regret it.

If you want to, just pay someone's college tuition directly to the college.

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 25711/20/2020

r226 The planet is going to get bad in 40 years in what kind of way? What do you have in mind? Global warming causing the collapse of civilisation or democracies around the world slipping into demagoguery and going rogue??

by Anonymousreply 25811/20/2020

r243 Oh I have never noticed that? I personally get on brilliantly with my brothers ex wife and mother of my niece and nephew as well as that I have always got on with my other brothers partners and girlfriends.

by Anonymousreply 25911/20/2020

No never I just regret not studying something else in school

by Anonymousreply 26011/20/2020

My niece is the greatest kid in the world and I’m fine just seeing her a few times a year

by Anonymousreply 26111/20/2020


by Anonymousreply 26211/20/2020

Hell, no!

by Anonymousreply 26311/20/2020

My lesbian friends have chosen a sperm donor (I just mistyped that as “diner”), and are trying for The Happy Event.

I’ve told them if the baby is too disruptive, I will raise it if they give me $5,000 a month.

So we’ll see.

by Anonymousreply 26411/20/2020

Having or conceiving a biological child is, at its base, a selfish act. The life didn't exist before. YOU chose to create a life that didn't exist a creation that was to serve YOUR purposes. While they may, ostensibly, be selfless purposes - to care for someone, to love someone - it's still a selfish act. And given the state of the climate, bringing someone into the world who will be an adult in a world riddled with climate change is incredibly selfish.

A selfish, but more selfless, act is to adopt a child. The life has already been created - thus you are not creating a life that did not need to be created. You are merely taking a life and trying to enhance it and make said child's life as supported, loved and comforted. It's similar to adopting a pet.

Also, anyone that has a child that doesn't have at least three years of savings and a safety net is selfish. They are EXPENSIVE. Live life assuming you will not have stable employment or health care. If you live that life and have a child, you are selfish and reckless. If that means only the rich have children, well, then only the rich have children. Those without children can enjoy things like reading books, leisure time and a more stress free life. They can give their love to animals.

by Anonymousreply 26511/21/2020

What about not having children? Can’t that also be seen as a selfish act by some people?

by Anonymousreply 26611/21/2020

I wish I had more. More children means more child support after the divorce

Offsite Link
by Anonymousreply 26711/21/2020

r265 Selfish or self involved?

by Anonymousreply 26811/21/2020

R266 - Yes, not having children can be perceived as a selfish act - and for many it is. But it's a selfish act with no collateral damage; not having children harms no one. Having children harms many - the children themselves (whose lives never NEEDED to be created in the first place) and anyone THEY may harm.

by Anonymousreply 26911/21/2020
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