Coronavirus Megathread 2: The Beat Goes On

Previous thread

Does this count as R1? Technically, I'm R1!

If Trump only knew how to ski!

Cher help us!

IF I COULD TURRRRN BACK TIMMMMEEEEE

That's how Trump shops for his Christmas Tree, r3.

Put his fat ass on a pair of skis, aim him at a tree, let go and that 350 pound body crashes into the tree, snaps it off at the base, and voila ....... Trumpy cuts down his own tree!

Dad needs to visit sometime. I can see Russia from my house.

One of our wealthier suburban school districts is moving back to 100% remote and has 129 students and staff in quarantine after 11 students (several of them football players.)

Sylvia, so many schools around here are applying for waivers to open. I don’t get it.

Certain COVID-19 vaccine candidates could increase susceptibility to HIV, warns a group of researchers who in 2007 learned that an experimental HIV vaccine had raised in some people the risk for infection with the AIDS virus. These concerns have percolated in the background of the race for a vaccine to stem the coronavirus pandemic, but now the researchers have gone public with a “cautionary tale,” in part because trials of those candidates may soon begin in locales that have pronounced HIV epidemics, such as South Africa.

Some approved and experimental vaccines have as a backbone a variety of adenoviruses, which can cause the common cold but are often harmless. The ill-fated HIV vaccine trial used an engineered strain known as adenovirus 5 (Ad5) to shuttle into the body the gene for the surface protein of the AIDS virus. In four candidate COVID-19 vaccines now in clinical trials in several countries, including the United States, Ad5 similarly serves as the “vector” to carry in the surface protein gene of SARS-CoV-2, the viral cause of the pandemic; two of these have advanced to large-scale, phase III efficacy studies in Russia and Pakistan

Even old southern Senators are sticking up for Dr. Fauci.

[quote] Dr. Fauci is one of our country’s most distinguished public servants. He has served 6 presidents, starting with Ronald Reagan. If more Americans paid attention to his advice, we’d have fewer cases of COVID-19, & it would be safer to go back to school & back to work & out to eat.

Though note, he puts the burden of responsibility squarely on individual citizens, so he's still an asshat.

A Viral Theory Cited by Health Officials Draws Fire From Scientists

"Michael Osterholm, a renowned infectious-disease expert, said on NBC's [italic]Meet the Press[/italic] Sunday that a 'herd immunity' theory reportedly invoked by one of President Trump's favorite coronavirus advisers 'is the most amazing combination of pixie dust and pseudoscience I've ever seen.'"

An op-ed from former CDC Chief Dr. Tom Frieden further illustrates why "herd immunity" is a terrible idea and also explains what we should be doing instead.

[quote]Getting enough people infected to achieve herd immunity would come at a terrible price. With less than 15% of Americans infected, there have been more than 220,000 deaths from COVID. To get to a 60% infection rate would mean at least half a million more deaths in this country. And herd immunity might require even more than that. It’s shocking, but the plain truth is that this would mean more Americans killed by COVID in just one year than were killed in all the wars of the 20th century.

WaPo 10/20/20

[quote] Volunteers in London to Be Infected With Coronavirus in Vaccine Study

[quote] A human challenge trial will begin in January, in which volunteers are deliberately exposed to the virus.

[quote] Rather than testing vaccines the usual way — by waiting for vaccinated people to encounter the virus in their homes and communities — researchers would expose them to the virus in a controlled setting.

[quote] But experts in medical ethics are divided over whether such a study is acceptable, largely because there is no highly effective treatment for Covid-19. The Imperial College London researchers said they would use the antiviral medicine remdesivir, but that drug has been found to have only modest benefit. Most other challenge trials have involved diseases like cholera and typhoid, which can be quickly and reliably cured with drugs.

[quote]Getting enough people infected to achieve herd immunity would come at a terrible price. With less than 15% of Americans infected, there have been more than 220,000 deaths from COVID. To get to a 60% infection rate would mean at least half a million more deaths in this country. And herd immunity might require even more than that. It’s shocking, but the plain truth is that this would mean more Americans killed by COVID in just one year than were killed in all the wars of the 20th century.

Yeah, but I need to get my hair cut.

Former FDA chief Dr. Scott Gottlieb is warning that the U.S. is about “a week away from seeing a rapid acceleration” in coronavirus cases.

Without a backstop from widely available treatments, Gottlieb said Monday evening on CNBC’s “The News with Shepard Smith,” “the fall and winter season is when this coronavirus is going to want to spread.”

“We can look to happier days, but these are going to be some tough months ahead,” he cautioned.

Just a rambling thought and perhaps wishful thinking ... after the holidays, when the winter weather really rushes in, I think corona virus cases may go down in the northern & midwest states. We tend to hibernate anyway since it's too danged cold to go outside and the roads are too crappy to go anywhere. Perfect time to quarantine.

Speaking of the holidays, has NY announced any modification or cancellation of the NYE celebration in Times Square? Cannot see how social distancing would be possible.

Ball drop is going to be virtual, any live performances will be capacity controlled and socially distanced.

They're also scaling back the Thanksgiving Day parade and have replaced the Halloween parade with something that sounds a bit like Universal Studios' Halloween Horror Nights.

People still visit family and friends in the winter, R18. People gathering in each others' homes is a major driver of transmission and I would expect that to accelerate in Jan, Feb & March.

As for holidays -- a massive bar in my city has just announced that it is indeed hosting its annual Halloween party. I thought for sure it would be called off this year. Revelers are advised to start lining up early because it will take time to "let hundreds of guests in safely."

R15 Better them than me. I hope they're being well-compensated for their participation.

While aerosol transport in air exhibits some stochasticity, it is found that a significant fraction (24%–50%) of particles smaller than 15 µm exit the system within 15 min through the air conditioning system. Particles larger than 20 µm almost entirely deposit on the ground, desks, and nearby surfaces in the room. Source location strongly influences the trajectory and deposition distribution of the exhaled aerosol particles and affects the effectiveness of mitigation measures such as glass barriers. Glass barriers are found to reduce the aerosol transmission of 1 µm particles from the source individual to others separated by at least 2.4 m by ∼92%. By opening windows, the particle exit fraction can be increased by ∼38% compared to the case with closed windows and reduces aerosol deposition on people in the room. On average, ∼69% of 1 µm particles exit the system when the windows are open.

R22, your post is utterly exhausting.

The count of excess deaths this year brings the covid toll to more than 500k.

Trump called CNN 'bastards' for covering Covid-19. Hear Keilar's response

I would have become a CNN viewer for life if she'd just looked directly into the camera and told him to go fuck himself.

[quote]The count of excess deaths this year brings the covid toll to more than 500k.

If there only some explanation for all these mysterious deaths!

From that WaPo article:

The CDC also found, surprisingly, that it has struck 25- to 44-year-olds very hard: Their “excess death” rate is up 26.5 percent over previous years, the largest change for any age group.

[quote]The count of excess deaths this year brings the covid toll to more than 500k.

You misread it. The 299k deaths they refer to include the 220k from the coronavirus. So it's really just 299k, not 500k.

R28 Young people are IMMUNE. IMMUNE, I SAID.

CNN: An influential model foresees 171,000 more Covid-19 deaths by February.

The model, from the Institute for Health Metrics and Evaluation at the University of Washington School of Medicine, forecasts there will most likely be about 389,087 deaths -- or 78% more fatalities -- by February 1.

The model's best-case scenario projects 314,000 deaths by then if all Americans use masks. There could be more than 477,000 deaths if mask mandates are eased, it projects.

The IHME "most likely" model has consistently turned out to be more optimistic than reality has turned out to be.

NYT: The government of Ireland announced a six-week lockdown beginning Wednesday night, becoming the first European country to reimpose a national lockdown.

The new measures, announced on Monday, are a dramatic U-turn for the government, which just two weeks ago fell short of imposing the highest level of restrictions despite advice from public health experts.

Under the new restrictions, nonessential shops will be closed and people will be urged to stay at home, with the exception of exercise that must take place no more than three miles from home. Restaurants will be limited to takeout or delivery.

CNBC, telling you what you don't want to hear, but already suspect-

[quote] Covid-19 is likely to become as "endemic" as the annual flu virus, according to the U.K.'s chief scientific advisor.

[quote] Some potential vaccines are in late-stage clinical trials, but Patrick Vallance said none is likely to eradicate the virus. "The notion of eliminating Covid from anywhere is not right, because it will come back," he said, noting there had only been one human disease "truly eradicated" thanks to a highly effective vaccine and that was smallpox.

[quote] We can't be certain, but I think it's unlikely we will end up with a truly sterilizing vaccine, (that is) something that completely stops infection, and it's likely this disease will circulate and be endemic, that's my best assessment," Vallance told the National Security Strategy Committee in London on Monday.

[quote] "Clearly as management becomes better, as you get vaccination which would decrease the chance of infection and the severity of disease ... this then starts to look more like annual flu than anything else, and that may be the direction we end up going," he said.

Well, if that's true, it's huge bad news. I can't lock myself up for the rest of my life or bury myself in PPE. What kind of life is that?

It's not really that bad, R34. If the vaccines are only as effective as the annual flu vaccine (and because of the lack of strong mutation of the coronavirus, there is reason to believe that they will be more effective), then the virus becomes much more manageable.

Local outbreaks can be handled quickly, the case count, hospitalization rate, and death rate will all drop precipitously, and life will largely return to normal. The virus will likely continue to kill the older and more vulnerable, who will continue to have to be careful, wear masks, wash their hands, etc., but the economy and life as we used to know it will come back.

Yeah, but unlike the flu, this thing has fifty different things in it that can fuck you up for life if it doesn't kill you. It's way deadlier than the flu. The flu doesn't cause holes in your brain or blood clots or turn your lungs into shattered glass. The flu doesn't scare me. This does.

Statistical observation .... Guessing that within the week, Texas will jump ahead of California and become the No. 1 state for Total Cases. The two states are only separated by about 1500 cases now, and Texas is still reporting over 4000-5000 new cases per day. Meanwhile, the news from California is showing new cases decreasing and/or flattening out.

R36, you can die from the flu and, while this virus is deadlier and does kill more people, it just doesn't warrant that kind of handwringing. Morever, as the article below notes, even if a vaccine doesn't completely protect you from the virus, it can reduce the severity of the disease when you get it.

And, repeating what I said above, as several other articles have noted, because it appears to be mutating slower than does the flu, potential vaccines should be more effective, assuming that we can persuade people to take them.

We'll have more complete answers to these issues in the next few months. Until then, I don't see the point in worrying.

I find it fascinating that now the Trump administration seems to hint at herd immunity - when we were "weeks" away from a vaccine. Likewise, with herd immunity - how would that work if antibody protection only lasts possibly just a few months.

That article at R38 is already out of date as it's based on the supposition that once you get Covid, you can't get it again. We know that to be untrue.

R40, while we know that to be untrue, it also remains the case that vanishingly few people actually have caught it twice in the space of a few months. If this becomes an annual event, much like the flu, it can be managed.

R39, the early data show antibody protection lasting longer than "just a few months."

Did people have an expectation of sterilizing immunity? I’m not being sarcastic, I just don’t follow this thread very closely and I’ve never heard anyone taking about that in real life.

R41, I said POSSIBLY...

We are forever in a perpetual purple zone that feels infinite in LA. Luckily, we can pretty much live our lives outdoors. The problem with spread here has been in home gatherings. That's at least what health person keeps saying. I don't know why we can't get this under control but SF is in the yellow zone with is one notch from the green. East coast, midwesterners, be very careful about your in home gatherings. I know that is preaching to the choir on this thread, but ugh! If you are in a place with low spread, keep it that way. This is annoying and it's effecting a lot of businesses and all the schools are closed.

[quote] I don't know why we can't get this under control but SF is in the yellow zone

Don’t worry. We’re working on getting out of it.

(And ten minutes south, in Pacifica, there’s even a mask-free hot-yoga studio which by the Trump-worshiping, morbidly obese owner’s own admission has been stayed open throughout the pandemic. And they’re STILL open!)

[quote]A couple of weeks ago, the man asked another member inside the gym to mask up in what he says was a “polite” tone. The response was alarming. According to his statement, he was yelled at and told to “take it outside” even as he approached the front desk for help. The same man allegedly hovered over him later as he stretched and demanded to know why the lack of mask unnerved him.

[quote]In a separate incident just Tuesday morning, our source said he asked another man with a mask on his chin to pull up the face covering as he grabbed paper towels to wipe down a machine. He was told: “I’M NOT GOING TO PASS OUT BECAUSE YOU WANT TO VIRTUE SIGNAL.”

R45 - It said today that you guys just went into yellow which allows for 50% indoor as of today. You rates in the city must be very low. We are having yet another uptick.

Theme parks are gone until yellow and then by appointment only at 50% occupancy for Disney, Magic Mountain, Universal. This is not a bad thing other than the jobs and no financial relief.

🤔 Hmmm . . . . . . .

Melania was scheduled to appear at Trump's campaign rally in Pennsylvania today. Her first public appearance since being diagnosed with Covid.

She cancelled at the last minute, citing a "chronic, lingering cough" as the reason.

Ok - I'm pissed off. The California tiers are all based on people being tested - not an increase in cases.

So Riverside County - which includes a massive amount of people all the way to the Arizona border - is now in purple. Because testing is down and they only test those with conditions that are COVID related.

Look - using a percentage of positive cases to determine how severe it is DOES NOT WORK if people are not being tested AND the case numbers are not rising.

Same thing for LA county. Newsom has to amend this somehow - California has NOT had an increase in cases the past few weeks unlike the rest of the country. And testing is not easy - so to use a 1 or 2 % decimal increase in positive cases, but there are no more cases now than before - it's MADDENING!

R49 - The metric just makes it endless. In LA, they've have done well with outdoors. Full salons, gyms, etc are very nice and completely outdoors. This is going to kill a lot of industries if these code purple restrictions go through the new year.

R50 - I suspect people will rebel against it - actually I know it will. Show me increased cases - not percentages of those who were tested.

And, in addition and also, with what we know now, there's no reason to go back to the most extreme stages (purple in California).

Other states are seeing severe spikes in cases - in fact, 45 of the 50 states. California has not.

There is no reason to shut down where I live again.

Remember, the 1918 flu is still around. COVID will be much the same. There will be a vaccine, and vulnerable populations will get their annual shot. And life will continue.

We will probably be back to normal mid to late next year.

The 1918 flu is still around? You mean in BSL-3 labs right?

[quote]Trump has a unique strategy for confronting COVID-19 — none. He's bored with the virus and can't understand why it's still around, sort of like Marla Maples in the late 1990s.

Sadly, I am starting to realize that we may only be at the beginning of this disaster. 5 of my 10 co-workers are home now because of school closure due to infected classmates or teachers. Cases in Europe are beyond belief. Excess deaths in the US are starting to reveal the true scope of the impact. And winter is coming!!! I am also under the weather as is my husband. What horrors await?

+317 deaths in Russia. + 312 deaths in Iran. +191 deaths in the UK. +163 deaths in France. +156 deaths in Spain. +127 deaths in Italy. Over 100 deaths in Poland, Ukraine, Czechia and Indonesia. Think this is over?

After doing really well in the first stage of the pandemic, Czechia has really screwed the pooch. Apparently, citizens thought they had really beat the virus and started living as they did pre-covid.

Funny how this gets worse when schools, restaurants, and bars open. Who's a thunk it? Covering my face is literally killing me!!11!1!!! Dumb motherfucking braindead entitled selfish Repug assholes.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

R59, can you at least read the first three highlighted summary sentences in your own link? The guy hadn't even gotten the vaccine yet. There is literally nothing to report beyond 'human died in Brazil'. It had nothing to do with the vaccine trial.

German health minister tests positive for Covid-19

From CNN’s Josefine Ohema

German Health Minister Jens Spahn has tested positive for coronavirus, his office told CNN on Wednesday.

The minister's office said so far Spahn has only developed cold symptoms and is currently in isolation at home.

In response, German Foreign Minister Heiko Maas wished him well, tweeting, 'Good and quick recovery, Jens Spahn and we will keep our fingers crossed for you.'

People who have been in contact with the health minister are currently being informed, the spokesperson said.

Boston schools go all-remote as Covid-19 cases climb

From CNN’s Evan Simko-Bednarski

All public school instruction in Boston will be remote starting Thursday, following a rise in Covid-19 cases, according to a statement released Wednesday by Boston Public Schools.

The statement cited a 5.7% seven-day Covid-19 positivity rate for the city of Boston, up from last week's rate of 4.5%.

“We have said all along that we will only provide in-person learning for students if the data and public health guidance supports it, and this new data shows that we are trending in the wrong direction,” said Mayor Marty Walsh in a statement

The decision comes less than a week after the district announced that it was delaying in-person instruction.

“I am heartbroken that today we have to close our doors to our highest need students," Superintendent Brenda Cassellius was quotes as saying. "Our families are desperate for these services for their children, many of whom are non-verbal and unable to use technology in the home."

On Twitter Wednesday morning, Cassellius said she was "disheartened."

"It is the adults who create the conditions in which children succeed," she wrote. "We must do better. Please wear a mask, avoid large gatherings & stay home if sick so we can bring our children back to school."

In-person instruction will resume when infection rates fall for two straight weeks, according to the district.

Halloween will still happen in New York City, mayor says

From CNN's Aditi Sangal

“Halloween is happening in New York City, and Halloween will be safe in New York City,” Mayor Bill de Blasio said Wednesday.

He laid out some safety guidelines for the holiday:

Trick-or-treating should be done all outdoors, not inside apartment buildings.

Treats should be placed in a bin rather than handed out.

People should step back six feet after ringing door bells and use sanitizer.

The mayor also stressed a mask in a costume “is not the same as the kind of mask we use to protect ourselves and each other.”

Here are the latest numbers on coronavirus in New York City: 1.56% of people tested positive citywide, keeping the number under the 5% threshold, de Blasio said. The seven-day rolling average is 1.68%.

In addition, 77 people were hospitalized. New York City is also reporting a seven-day average of 493 new reported cases, with a threshold of 550 cases.

Five schools are on a 14-day shut down, though one is coming out of the shutdown Thursday.

One note: These numbers were released by the city's public health agency, and may not line up exactly in real time with CNN’s database drawn from Johns Hopkins University and the Covid Tracking Project.

The CDC today expanded the definition of who is a "close contact" of an individual with covid-19.

The CDC had previously defined a “close contact” as someone who spent at least 15 consecutive minutes within six feet of a confirmed covid-19 case. The updated guidance, which health departments rely on to conduct contact tracing, now defines a close contact as someone who was within six feet of an infected individual for a total of 15 minutes or more over a 24-hour period.

The change is likely to have its biggest impact in schools, workplaces and other group settings where people are in contact with others for long periods of time. It also underscores the importance of mask-wearing to prevent spread of the virus.

Trump’s an ASSHOLE!

[quote]Treats should be placed in a bin rather than handed out.

Which is exactly where most of them belong.

COVID-19 continues to spread through Michigan classrooms, with outbreaks in 84 Michigan school buildings in 31 counties as of Oct. 15.

There are now 435 cases among students and staff connected to K-12 school outbreaks, a 25 percent increase in one week. The number of schools with outbreaks rose from 68 to 84 in a week.

The story was much the same in Michigan colleges, with 5,368 cases connected to outbreaks at 30 Michigan colleges and universities, an increase of 9 percent from the 4,921 cases tallied in the state report released Oct. 12.

Trump: "Open up the schools!"

I think CA numbers have been getting better precisely because schools and universities have been closed. As more apply for waivers and begin to reopen I expect just the same as anywhere else

We are 2-3 weeks away from a record number of deaths worldwide. Mark my words. Are you ready for phase II? It's coming!!!

What some have observed as regards the "long haulers": 1 in ten under fifty year-olds, and women at a greater risk.

R37 Texas just did it with their 6,237 new cases today.

If you look at R57 graph, the US has never had a decline like every other country. I get the politics, but BoJo is no better than Trump and they had a summer of fun. They got it down enough to where it went away for the a few months and did less than we did in the country. It's frustrating. It's so depressing to see these little kids in masks. Obviously it's needed by maybe whatever generation kindergartners are will be tougher than Gen Z above them. More like WW2 grandparents generation.

R72 - well, the US is huge. It needed time to spread outside the urban areas - and now it has.

Wisconsin has exploded the last 4-5 weeks and, although one would assume it is Milwaukee's urban area with the most cases, the fact is that the opposite is true. It's the smaller counties. Milwaukee probably has 25% of the state population, but only around 15% of the spike in cases.

Same thing in Tennessee. And these rural counties don't have the hospital resources like bigger cities. There's going to be some serious trouble in the next 30 days.

And, hopefully, it's the Trumpsters who are getting it.

15 of North Dakota's 20 hospitals are out of ICU beds.

R74 - and yet they still haven't introduced any mask or other COVID guidelines.

I hope South Dakota gets it worse - that smug Republican governor needs a major crisis on her hands to smear her glib and dangerous attitude about COVID the past few months.

It's horrible what the healthcare workers have to go through, but this is all going as it should. These people will only respond to death and destruction to their own loved ones before they wake up.

COVID - do your thing baby!

The story at R59 has been updated. He died from Covid complications, not the vaccine:

[quote]Brazilian doctor, 28, who died from coronavirus after volunteering for Oxford vaccine trial was in the control group that got placebo and trial will continue.

From reading FB comments on any Covid news stories, expect a huge outbreak in December & January as everybody gets sick from holiday celebrations. Seems many people are claiming that they'll "live without fear" and plan on visiting family. Not good news.

... still hoping for people to hibernate in their homes from mid January until Spring.

R73 it is the Trumpers. My friend has family way north of Milwaukee and they are all COVID positive, after pooh pooh ing the virus and flaunting no-mask wearing. None of them hospitalized..yet, but it’s spreading like crazy up there.

Martin Bashir, a former MSNBC host/current BBC journalist who is best known for his 1995 interview with Princess Diana, is "seriously unwell with Covid-19 related complications," per the BBC.

Dr. Campbell on Zinc & Vitamin D. Take your Emergen-C, fellas.

Italy Did Everything Right to Stop a Second Wave of the Coronavirus. So What Went Wrong?

While ruling out another full lockdown, Italian health officials are instead urging people to limit their own movements, even as concern grows that by urging people not to go out of their homes, they are inadvertently encouraging private parties where the spread seems to be the worst for the moment. Italy’s health ministry released data this week showing that 80.3 percent of the new infections “occur at home” while only 4.2 percent come from recreational activities and schools.

I always get Martin Bashir and Dinesh D'Souza mixed up. This time I wish it were so.

Germany will require travelers from the UK to quarantine

From CNN's Christian Streib in London

Germany will require arrivals from the UK to quarantine for 14 days starting Saturday, according to guidance released Thursday by the German Missions in the United Kingdom.

Starting Saturday, Germany will classify the UK as a "COVID high-risk area," with the exception of the Isle of Man, Jersey and Guernsey.

"The United Kingdom has been strongly affected by COVID-19," according to the German Missions in the United Kingdom. "Passengers travelling from these high risk areas must therefore undergo a 14-day quarantine upon entering Germany, unless they can provide a COVID-19 test that is no older than 48 hours, or get a test done upon arrival and it is negative. Those who get a test done upon arrival, must undergo quarantine until the result has arrived."

Southwest Airlines says it will sell every seat

From CNN’s Pete Muntean and Greg Wallace

Southwest Airlines is about to sell every seat on board its flights.

The news comes on the heels of the airline announcing record financial losses because of the pandemic.

In a Thursday earnings report, Southwest announced it will no longer limit capacity on flights starting Dec. 1. The change marks an end to Southwest’s pandemic policy and allows it the opportunity to fill planes through the typically busy holiday travel season.

“This practice of effectively keeping middle seats open bridged us from the early days of the pandemic, when we had little knowledge about the behavior of the virus, to now,” Southwest said. “Today, aligned with science-based findings from trusted medical and aviation organizations, we will resume selling all available seats for travel beginning December 1, 2020.”

That leaves Delta Air Lines as the final remaining big four carrier to limit capacity in aircraft cabins. Executives have said that policy will continue until next year. United Airlines and American Airlines have been selling every seat for months.

Alaska Airlines announced Thursday it will extend its policy of blocking middle seats until Jan. 6.

A recently-released Defense Department study found that among mask-wearing airplane passengers, the risk of airborne droplet transmission in airplanes is limited due to specialized air flow and filtration systems.

"There's nobody here": Independent restaurants face bleak future without more federal aid

From CNN's Adrienne Vogt

As winter approaches, small restaurants face an uncertain future.

“We are back where we started in March. We really are,” said John Doherty, who owns the Playwright Irish Pub in midtown Manhattan. “There’s nobody here.”

“We're begging for help. We really need help. We feel like we're at the bottom of the mountain, we're trying to climb. There’s no rope to help us,” he said.

He laid off nearly all of his 25 employees and used up his Paycheck Protection Program loan.

According to the National Restaurant Association, nearly half of the 660,000 US restaurants say they won’t make it another six months without federal aid, CNN’s Vanessa Yurkevich reports.

It has a ripple effect on other businesses, as well. Ivan Mendez, a printer who used to print signs for the Playwright and 30 other businesses, now had to lay off half his staff and dip into his 401(k), he said. He said he thinks he will have to close.

Doherty said he is investing in preparing his bar for winter patrons, “because I think tomorrow has to be a better day than today.” “I want to show I've done everything I possibly could to make my business successful. If I have exhausted all my energy and failed, I tried my best,” he said.

[quote]“We are back where we started in March. We really are,” said John Doherty, who owns the Playwright Irish Pub in midtown Manhattan. “There’s nobody here.”

[quote]Doherty said he is investing in preparing his bar for winter patrons, “because I think tomorrow has to be a better day than today.”

I'm afraid Mr. Doherty is in denial. If patrons aren't coming to his place now, when NYC is doing better than many areas in the U.S., they're certainly not coming in the midst of winter, when cases will be much higher again.

The study that found that mouthwashes can help contain the spread of the virus? Not so fast:

[quote]But outside experts warned against overinterpreting the study’s results, which might not have practical relevance to the new coronavirus that has killed more than 220,000 Americans. Not only did the study not investigate this deadly new virus, but it also did not test whether mouthwash affects how viruses spread from person to person.

...

[quote]The study, which was published last month in the Journal of Medical Virology, looked only at a coronavirus called 229E that causes common colds"

...

[quote]But because the study didn’t recruit any human volunteers to gargle the products in question, the findings have limited value for the real world, other experts said. The human mouth, full of nooks and crannies and a slurry of chemicals secreted by a diverse cadre of cells, is far more complicated than the inside of a laboratory dish. Nothing should be considered conclusive “unless human studies are performed,” said Dr. Maricar Malinis, an infectious disease expert at Yale University.

A good Twitter thread from epidemiologist Dr. Michael Mina on what we know about the seasonality of the virus. The assumption has been that the lack of decline in cases this summer meant that the virus is not particularly seasonal.

Dr. Mina's assertion is that the assumption may not be true, that the cases we saw this summer were because, "The 'force of infection' of this virus is massive! ... The huge number of susceptible people is what is allowing the virus to maintain transmission through the summer months - when other coronaviruses go to near zero."

If he's correct, we may be in for "massive increases" in the months ahead.

After repeatedly promising Czech Republic citizens that they would never again have to go undergo the kind of lockdown they experienced earlier this year, Prime Minister Andrej Babis has announced that the country will reimpose those restrictions beginning today and lasting at least until November 3rd.

NYT: Covid-19 has cost Americans more than 2.5 million years of potential life.

A Harvard researcher added up the number of years that Americans who died from Covid-19 might have lived had they reached a typical life expectancy.

Several more stories and stats at the daily coronavirus report substack.

US daily death rate jumped past 1.1K again . Is it what Trump mean by "turning the corner"??

[quote]Is it what Trump mean by "turning the corner"??

Trump in North Carolina yesterday: "“All you hear is Covid, Covid, Covid, Covid, Covid, Covid, Covid, Covid, Covid, Covid, Covid,” Mr. Trump said, repeating the word 11 times. “That’s all they put on, because they want to scare the hell out of everyone.”

He really is one of the most vile creatures ever to walk the face of the earth.

I don't have faith in ANY politician. I'm on depending on the govt. to improve anything...

Only thing that will change the course of this destruction of humans is the vaccine...if any gets the OK.

Until then, protect yourself. stock up on your essentials, meds, wash your hands and mask up!

[quote]I'm afraid Mr. Doherty is in denial. If patrons aren't coming to his place now, when NYC is doing better than many areas in the U.S., they're certainly not coming in the midst of winter, when cases will be much higher again.

That's what is so maddening about those calls to "reopen the economy!!!!" You can do all the reopening you want but until we have the pandemic under much tighter control, the economy will not recover.

Fix the pandemic and the economy will fix itself. Fail to fix the pandemic and you will not have an economic recovery, no matter how hard you close your eyes and wish.

A record number of cases in France, Italy and other countries here in Europe. And now this news from Poland. The situation is spiralling out of control. There is no stopping it!

Guardian-After Poland’s deputy health minister warned earlier that the country could pass 10,000 new infections for the second day running, more than 12,100 cases and 170 new deaths have been announced.. The Polish prime minister, Mateusz Morawiecki, suggested that starting on Saturday, he would like all Poland to be placed under the highest level of restrictions short of a full lockdown.

South Dakota yesterday reported a positivity rate of 34.7%, the highest in the nation. Texas' is 8.3%, California's is 2.6%.

Also yesterday "We're doing really good in South Dakota. We're managing COVID-19." - South Dakota Gov. Kristi Noem.

R88 - it's already happened, not just here, but around the world. Cases are up in a bad way - it's just how much worse is it going to get?

And we had over 1200 deaths yesterday - I don't recall being over 1,000 deaths in several months. I was hopeful that we could keep the death rate down this time, but, once again, the sheer numbers may make it more difficult.

I can't imagine what health workers are feeling right now - they are TIRED already and now they are seeing the start of something even worse.

Hospitalizations are appreciably higher now in my mid-size Midwest city than they were at the virus' spring peak.

Wasn't South Dakota where they held that stupid motorcycle rally?

Yup.

R80 Thanks for that Ms. Fowler. Matt Hancock has finally recommended, or acceded to reports that Vit D is beneficial, and healthy levels are associated with better outcomes for those infected. Several studies have been completed in Spain, Denmark, and various other countries. Public Health England for years have advised supplements are good, and harmless.

It took Hancock long enough to reverse his opinion, but here we are. When will NIH, and CDC begin such recommendations? It seems most Americans, and their physicians still claim that vitamin supplements simply create expensive urine. We need more of a concerted focus on strengthening one's own immune system and health. I feel similarly toward supplementing with Zinc, B Complex, and Vitamin C.

R100 - yes, but it didn't stop there - they went forward with the South Dakota state fair. NO masks.

The governor of SD has been fucking insane - anti-masker and spreading misinformation.

I hope this isn't hitting the elderly in nursing homes because these idiots that work there bring it in.

I want these new COVID deaths to be localized to Republican, Trump-supporting Boomers. I haven't asked for much, God.

Now, they fucking tell us VITAMIN D works!

How many studies have you read where they claim vitamins are just expensive urine???

Big Pharma cunts at work!

Vitamins work! continue to take them! Fuck the drug companies!

R104 Agreed. They ought to be encouraging exercise regimens, and weight loss as well, considering what we know about overweight patients and this virus.

There are recommendations in other countries that mouthwash, and more frequent tooth brushing reduces viral load, thus possibly leading to less infective individuals. Nothing harmful in one upping his oral hygiene routine.

For those comfortable spending the money, and using supplements, I believe there's validity in using NAC, and Quercetin as well. Quercetin acts as an ionophore for the Zinc.

“Prevention of infection must be a critical endpoint. Any vaccine trial should include regular antigen testing every three days to test contagiousness to pick up early signs of infection and PCR testing once a week to confirm infection by SARS-CoV-2 test the ability of the vaccines to stave off infection. Prevention of infection is not a criterion for success for any of these vaccines. In fact, their endpoints all require confirmed infections and all those they will include in the analysis for success, the only difference being the severity of symptoms between the vaccinated and unvaccinated. Measuring differences amongst only those infected by SARS-CoV-2 underscores the implicit conclusion that the vaccines are not expected to prevent infection, only modify symptoms of those infected.

We all expect an effective vaccine to prevent serious illness if infected. Three of the vaccine protocols—Moderna, Pfizer, and AstraZeneca—do not require that their vaccine prevent serious disease only that they prevent moderate symptoms which may be as mild as cough, or headache.

The second surprise from these protocols is how mild the requirements for contracted Covid-19 symptoms are. A careful reading reveals that the minimum qualification for a case of Covid-19 is a positive PCR test and one or two mild symptoms. These include headache, fever, cough, or mild nausea. This is far from adequate. These vaccine trials are testing to prevent common cold symptoms...

....These trials certainly do not give assurance that the vaccine will protect from the serious consequences of Covid-19. Johnson & Johnson is the only trial that requires the inclusion of severe Covid-19 cases, at least 5 for the 75 participant interim analysis.

One of the more immediate questions a trial needs to answer is whether a vaccine prevents infection. If someone takes this vaccine, are they far less likely to become infected with the virus? These trials all clearly focus on eliminating symptoms of Covid-19, and not infections themselves. Asymptomatic infection is listed as a secondary objective in these trials when they should be of critical importance.

It appears that all the pharmaceutical companies assume that the vaccine will never prevent infection. Their criteria for approval is the difference in symptoms between an infected control group and an infected vaccine group. They do not measure the difference between infection and noninfection as a primary motivation

WHEN ARE WE GETTING ANTIBACTERIAL WIPES AGAIN?

The entire globe can’t produce antibacterial wipes for 8 months?

[quote] Vitamins work! continue to take them! Fuck the drug companies!

Who do you think are making the vitamins/supplements? Some mom & pop laboratory?

[quote] WHEN ARE WE GETTING ANTIBACTERIAL WIPES AGAIN?

It's insane. I have not been able to get the Purell cottony soft individually packaged wipes since COVID hit. Everything else has come back around to being in stock except for these. WTF?

r104 Posters earlier posted on coronavirus threads that Vitamin D works, with links to medical journal abstracts reporting on RCT findings, and were derided by the retarded DL mainstays.

YIKES!!!

Guardian-French health authorities reported another 41,622 confirmed Covid-19 cases over 24 hours on Thursday, an all-time daily high that was published shortly after the government announced a broad extension of the curfew put in place a week ago in Paris and other major cities (see 4.40pm.). The number of people in France who have died from Covid-19 infections was up by 162, at 34,210, and the cumulative number of cases now totals 999,043.

The number of new cases in France today is the equivalent of +200K cases in the US based on the size of the population. And the US has never crossed the 100K mark ....so far. This is big news and may be a sign of what's to come

And over 13K cases here in tiny Belgium which is the equivalent of +350K cases in the US! But Chump says that the US is turning the corner

So - why is it spreading so feverishly in Europe? Did people just say - fuck it?

I don't understand how it got out of control again so quickly. Like exploded worse than ever.

R115 many more people are being tested, so higher numbers. Fewer people in the hospital though. People just don’t care and are tired of the virus. But another Lockdown isn’t far off.

[quote]Did people just say - fuck it?

Yes, that's exactly what they did. Workplaces reopened without mask mandates, bars and restaurants reopened without distancing, young people socialized like it was 2019 and bought the virus to older relatives in in-home gatherings. By the time governments pushed common sense again, the genie was out of the bottle.

Not exactly sure. But lockdowns were in place and people were wearing masks. Even young people when they enter a store, gas station, restaurant, etc., Everyone here has a mask! But....then schools opened up and so did work places. In France, the workplace is one of the key driver's for the increase. Yet despite all the efforts, cases and deaths are on the rise again. Maybe a seasonal component to the spread as well as temperatures have quickly dropped throughout Europe

CNN: Remdesivir receives FSA approval to treat hospitalized patients.

Last week, the WHO said remdesivir does not reduce mortality.

Never forget case, case, case, cluster, cluster, boom.

It appears to get out of control so quickly because the infectious presymptomatic period is so long and the average person infects two to three other people and then they go on to infect two to three other people. 2-4-8-16-32-64-128- 256. Two hundred people could easily be infected before patient zero even feels sniffly.

Masks only work to the extent they are worn consistently when indoors. Indoor dining and drinking with people outside your household are so dangerous.

And it is really hard to not want to visit with your loved ones.

Sorry infusion day and feeling a little maudlin.

R116. True, but is not just more testing. Deaths are also increasing. The R rate and positivity rate are also increasing. A storm is on the horizon. The wind is blowing

Belgian Foreign Minster and former Prime Minister in in ICU with COVID 19.

A new Columbia University report estimates that between 130,000 and 210,000 COVID-19 deaths in the U.S.could have been avoided if the Trump administration had quickly and effectively implemented a cohesive public health response to the coronavirus.

What the U.S. death toll would have been if the Trump administration had followed the policies and protocols of:

• Australia, as few as 11,699 deaths.

• Canada, as few as 85,192 U.S. deaths.

• Germany, as few as 38,457 U.S. deaths.

• Japan, as few as 4,315 deaths.

• South Korea, as few as 2,799 deaths.

As of today, more than 2220,000 Americans have died of the virus.

All the best ElderLez.

[quote]Italy’s health ministry released data this week showing that 80.3 percent of the new infections “occur at home” while only 4.2 percent come from recreational activities and schools.

This is so idiotic. Yes, one idiot gets infected at a recreational activity or school. Then, that one idiot goes home and infects the six people who live with him. Net result: 1 official recreational or school based infection and 6 house-based infections. Do they think the virus is just falling out of the air in people's houses? They are bringing it in from their recreational activities and schools. WTF is wrong with people??

And now, even in freaking NY, the government is talking about the importance of Halloween? I am telling you now to duck and cover. This is not a drill!

I don’t get why Germany is even letting in Brits and not Americans. The UK isn’t in the European Union anymore and they’re fucking up just as much, if not more, than Americans. Germany needs to start allowing in Americans from specific states who’ve brought their infection levels down like New York.

I still can't find any Clorox wipes or good paper towels.

R128 up until 31 December the UK still is under EU law

“Consider this hypothetical scenario: an important gain-of-function experiment involving a virus with serious pandemic potential is performed in a well-regulated, world-class laboratory by experienced investigators, but the information from the experiment is then used by another scientist who does not have the same training and facilities and is not subject to the same regulations. In an unlikely but conceivable turn of events, what if that scientist becomes infected with the virus, which leads to an outbreak and ultimately triggers a pandemic

Dr Anthony Fauci - his own words from 2012

Re: Anti-viral wipes. I have used for a long time simply hydrogen peroxide with a sprayer, and a bag of cut-up tshirts. I keep next to sink in kitchen .I keep 2-3 extra bottles as backup. I use paper towels only for human or animal fluids, etc. I keep a bucket in laundry room to collect the dirty ones and wash them in washing machine once per week in bleach and detergent. I am very seldom sick.

Hydrogen Peroxide - not for skin but for surfaces.

Please consider using this if you can't find wipes.

Been using H2O2 since the March shortage of wipes.

It is almost always available since most seem unaware of its efficacy.

Doesn't peroxide discolor cloth if you get it on your clothes or furniture?

Antibacterial wipes are making a comeback. In LA when everything was stripped bare for months, I bought some Target brand ones today and some generic shit from Bed, Bath and Barebacked last month. I have not see proper Purell since February,

I get my groceries delivered (usually from Amazon Fresh) and I was using Instacart last week because of a deal I got from them and placed a grocery order from Walmart. My shopper texted me while he was in the store and asked if I wanted him to pick up some Clorox wipes since they had them in stock. I hadn't mentioned anything about them, but I did not have any so I had him pick me up two containers and increased his tip for being so thoughtful (which I'm sure was his plan, but good for him).

Masks work.

The stupidity, it BURNS:

Moments after hearing an Idaho hospital was overwhelmed by COVID-19 patients and looking at sending people as far away as Seattle for care, members of a regional health department board voted Thursday to repeal a local mask mandate. The hospital in Coeur d’Alene reached 99% capacity a day earlier, even after doubling up patients in rooms and buying more hospital beds.

But the board voted 4-3 to end the mask mandate. Board members overseeing Idaho’s public health districts are appointed by county commissioners and not required to have any medical experience. One board member, Allen Banks, denied COVID-19 exists. “Something’s making these people sick, and I’m pretty sure that it’s not coronavirus, so the question that you should be asking is, ‘What’s making them sick?’” he told the medical professionals who testified.

Now that’s just dumb.

Alabama's GOP lieutenant governor

New York's vaccine vetters.

In France we had 40 000 new cases today and about 300 deaths. It would be like having 200 000 cases and 1500 deaths in the US. I'm back to freaking out.

R139 I'm sure social Darwinism and libertarianism are popular in Idaho. A man with no medical training denying masks are the new normal and that the virus exists just reeks of that thinking. I'm sure when it actually affects his family, THEN he'll believe in it.

saw on tv that a women died on a flight. It was from Covid. They didn't even know she was infected. It was on SouthWest, months ago...If my memory serves, it was from LV to TX.

Texas now the first state to surpass 900,000 cases.

Everything's bigger in Texas

R143 - is it concentrated in the cities? Because the concern I have here in the US is that it is now the non-urban areas that are exploding - partially because they weren't hit before and think it's not in their communities and part out of a total disregard for COVID protocols.

The problem is - these communities don't have the medical support needed, unlike big cities. If they start to get overwhelmed, which is starting to happen, they really don't have anywhere to take the people.

They can't transport them all to urban areas. Hopefully France's medical system is more extensive. But the US is so large, it can be an hour's drive to a hospital in some areas - and that hospital may be completely overloaded. And no more local resources to help out if their medical workers also get sick.

It's going to be very interesting what these people are going to say about masks and COVID in about 30 days.

[quote]The problem is - these communities don't have the medical support needed, unlike big cities. If they start to get overwhelmed, which is starting to happen, they really don't have anywhere to take the people.

Well, the bible-thumping maskless Trumptarded covidiots should be familiar with the phrase "to reap what one sows", so they're all good.

I remember the first threads in March and April that warned about shortages of product so I took heed and stocked up on TP, wipes, soup, baking flour etc. (Many thanks for the heads up) While shopping today, I noticed no wipes, spotty supply of TP, no spray Lysol, hit and miss for some canned goods.

Are we heading back to empty shelves in the coming months? Or were the stores I shopped just not fully stocking efficiently. Ralph’s and WalMart.

We're headed back there, R150. Stock up now, my brother. (it is the same here in Eastern Oregon, and in Walla Walla, WA (we are near to Idaho, alas). At least our Govenors are hard core about mask mandates here.

R150, today I went to Costco shortly after they opened (Las Vegas). THEY HAD 5 PACKS OF CLOROX WET WIPES!! It was like finding the Holy Grail. They had about one large pallet of them and they were going fast. One per customer.

I found Lysol liquid spray refills at the Costco Business Center, where they cater to restaurants and small business owners. They sell a lot of janitorial supplies there. There’s been intermittent shortages of toilet paper and paper towels. On paper towels, get some cheap white washcloths or dishrags as a backup, you can wash them with the regular laundry.

My best luck has been going to stores right when they open. If they open at 7:00 am, be there. If they get only a few of a product, you’ll be there to get it, and the shopping carts have usually been cleaned overnight, along with the floors and most things you touch.

Today over 80,000 new cases of Covid in the U.S. When you go out, take the utmost precautions. Throw your shoes in the car or a plastic bag, wash your clothes and shower when you get home.

Unless you are licking your shoes, that's just ridiculous overkill, R152. The clothes, too. The virus lasts for a very short time on cloth. Put your clothes in a hamper and wash them like usual. Wash your hands after you take off your shoes or put the clothes in the washer. That's enough.

We leave our shoes in the hall. (The variety of shoes worn has decreased dramatically as a result.)

While we don’t do the whole shower down/wash clothes every time we go out I have no judgement against people who do. As a practical matter with the clothes though if they aren’t otherwise dirty, it’s enough to put them through the dryer on high heat. That level of heat kills the virus.

The 84,843 cases yesterday amount to 1 in every 4,000 Americans identified as having the coronavirus.

In a single day.

As the numbers skyrocket, so do my stress levels. Day before yesterday my state reached an all-time high of new cases in a day. Yet people are still eating at restaurants, planning Halloween parties and trick or treating...the madness of crowds.

People planning to go door to door with their kids for Halloween are just insane. Every aspect of that is just asking for it. The kids are all crowded around the doorstep together, you have no control over who the other kids are and no knowledge of whether there’s Covid in their family. The people giving out candy could be sick too. And the parents. And all of them are people that don’t take precautions.

I saw a reminder that “Halloween masks aren’t Covid masks,” but you know anti maskers aren’t going to care. If people trick or treat, that’s a nationwide super spreader event. It will probably get a lot worse a couple of weeks after that. And it’s really bad already.

We need a public service campaign reminding people. I live in an area that saw a spike, got it under control, let the students back in, opened outdoor cafes, etc., and now it's spiking again. The reasons are clear: people are in enclosed, heated tents and talking without masks, students are having gatherings larger than recommended off campus and not taking precautions.

Yes, we're tired of this shit. It should have been a lockdown of 3 months, nationwide, while contact tracing guidelines were put in place. It may have to come to that when we have new leadership. What a damned disgrace. Even so, I'm glad not to be one of the 230,000 plus as I write this, though I'm only as good as the kid who came around the corner in town yesterday with his mask around his neck and breathed right into my face. We were both mortified and he apologized, but it could mean my death. How surreal, how tragic, how awful and how avoidable.

[quote]the madness of crowds.

When numbers peaked in spring, folks in my state did a really good job of wearing masks, restricting movement and driving the virus back. But apparently, they only did it because the governor instituted mandates, not because they're smart enough to understand how a communicable disease works. Because this time, without strict mandates in place, my experience is just like R156's -- bars and restaurants are packed, massive Halloween parties are being advertised and I pass houses every day with cars lined up out front, so it's clear people are socializing indoors en masse.

I wonder how bad it will have to get before people take it seriously again.

R159 Are you in PA? I feel like the powers that be have entirely given up, from the Governor down to my county Health Dept.

Mourning in Florida

Hey Elderlez, R154, Glad to see you're still here and kicking! Anyone see Bronze Age gay in a bit? I wonder about our older denizens of the DL and how they're holding up.

I've had the crazies and moved into town for a bit. Will head out to the farm later this week because people are so lapse.

[quote][R159] Are you in PA?

No, MI, where our governor has been great -- but the state supreme court invalidated her emergency orders on masks, building capacity, etc. a couple of weeks ago. The state and local health depts. have implemented their own rules, but it's clear that a large segment of the population took the court's ruling as permission to do any damn thing they want.

Polish president test positive for the virus. saw it on NY1.

Nice to see you too OldLez. I don’t think I’ve seen Bronze Age Gay in a while. I’ll keep an eye out though. I also haven’t seen Naked Beneath My Clothes. I hope they are both OK.

Trump broke his agreement to follow health guidelines at his rallies

What a shocking development, R166.

(My sarcasm is directed at the GOP, not at you.)

ElderLez - you are the smartest person on this thread. Didn't they say that fomite transmission was fairly low and especially on clothing? Yes, wash your hands, yes, remove your shoes at the door if you feel nervous, but you can still where the clothes you wore to the grocery store to watch TV, can't you. I believe everyone needs to do whatever makes them comfortable and some are more extreme than others. Do you feel like mask wearing, social distancing, and hand washing are the basics that should keep you safe in most situations?

[quote]...though I'm only as good as the kid who came around the corner in town yesterday with his mask around his neck and breathed right into my face.

Were you wearing a mask? Then you should be fine. You'd really need a distinct droplet right in the eye to transmit it that way in a passing encounter like that since you don't breathe through your eyes. I wouldn't worry too much about this as long as you had your mask on.

Latest issue of ENTERTAINMENT MONTHLY (formerly Entertainment Weekly) refers to Tom Hanks as "a COVID-19 survivor."

LOL.

walked by a polling site in Manhattan and the line was wrapped around the block and there was NO social distancing...they were not 6 feet apart. not even 3 feet. Heard the wait was over 4 hours to vote

Why is that funny, R170?

Because Hanks could quarantine with the best available medical supervision in a relatively uninfected location.

Plus, he had access to all that curative adrenochrome.

Um, once he was infected he was infected, r173.

R164, he’d better carry all those Covid viruses to term!

Corona bologna. Who's counting?

It's funny because you don't typically refer to somebody who had an illness with a less than 4% mortality rate a "survivor," R172. To do so is pretentious.

You're an idiot, R178.

Fauci finally called for a national mask mandate yesterday, but he doesn't advocate any penalties for non mask-wearers -- which means the Trumpers would continue their maskless ways.

A thread from Zev Shalev on underreporting of Covid deaths - I can't summarize, so here's the first post:

[quote]1. Donald Trump, his key backer Peter Thiel, and Dr. Deborah Birx, the White House Covid coordinator are directly linked to nationwide under-reporting of Covid-19 cases and deaths. We learned this morning the data was flawed.

Dr. Vuong takes on the Covidiots.

R168 there lots of really smart people on these threads. I accidentally got put in a weird position in January to understand the gravity of the situation before most people in the States did. That isn’t really any credit to me.

Maybe I am biased because we don’t have a washer/dryer in our apartment , but personally I am not overly concerned about fomites on clothes with the exception of shoes. (Shoes really are dirty.) We also don’t wash our groceries and we handle our mail right away. But I have nothing but respect for people who are more careful. That said the potentially frozen food related outbreak in New Zealand terrifies me and I go around with a face shield over a mask like a lunatic to the store, nail salon, train, church etc. And I will not eat or drink anything indoors (other than home) or be around anyone other than my wife if they are eating indoors. And I mask outdoors even if no one is in sight.

There is so much we don’t know about transmission and we are all trying to make peace with what is safe to do.

My mother is eating indoors at restaurants that she thinks are clean and have appropriate distancing with my stepfather, but won’t go to the movies with him and I am so scared for her and keep trying to get her to switch her choices. Who knows though.

I saw Bronze Age Gay post something about potatoes on a soup thread somewhat recently. Hopefully he’s ok.

I have a small foyer area in my apartment and when I get home, I take my shoes off and leave them there. I also had an extra pair of slippers I was gonna toss before this all happened, but instead I slip them on when I'm doing stuff around the building like taking trash out or doing laundry. I'd also purchased a few pairs of shoes early on in quarantine and one of them was slip on boot-like sneakers from Skechers. That's what I wear when I have to actually leave the building and go somewhere. I can slip them on in the foyer as opposed to having to tie and untie them. The only time I wear regular shoes is when I use my exercise equipment in my bedroom.

A gal's gotta have footwear.

👻 Turn off your lights, and don't answer the door on Halloween. You're under no obligation to buy candy for anyone in exchange for a complimentary dose of The Corona.

I noticed another new record set for Illinois today, 6,161 cases, and 31 deaths. Deaths seem to be down the past few days.

This afternoon on a walk through some trails near a park, I saw two somewhat large groups eating at picnic tables under a gazebo. Perhaps ten at one, and nearly a dozen at another. Some were wearing masks, but obviously many were eating. I was rather surprised by how many cars were parked. This park hasn't had any of that going on; one, two or three people tops.

Actually, R188, it was 63 deaths today. It'll start hitting the hundred mark next week. Our positivity rate is now 6.1%.

And, right now, the entire street outside my house is lined with cars of people going to the bar up the block. Assholes probably came over from DuPage and Will where they upped restrictions starting yesterday. I hate these stupid fuckers. I'm in a really small suburb and have no idea why the fucking cops aren't telling everyone to get the fuck out?!

R189 Thanks for making the correction to the death toll. My source was Chicago Trib online, very small box from 12 hrs. ago. I thougjt that sounded low, considering the past few days.

I believe it's only a matter of time before the entire US has 100k new cases per day.

So much stupid going on.

Let's see. It takes 70% or so to get to herd immunity in a community. America is clearly 75% moron. So, if all the morons get it, will that protect the smart people? I have to start trying to come up with shit so I don't start killing these stupid fuckers.

Here in Belgium, health officials reported +17.7K and +79 deaths...on a Sunday. Not looking good at all

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Every day there are so many countries around the world hitting a 'highest daily record'.

How many false starts will there be with a vaccine?

R195 That is like a 'how many jellybeans in the jar' question.

R190, Fauci said a few months back he thought it would get to 100K cases a day in the wintertime. I think it was in summer. It seemed improbable then. Now it seems like a certainty.

Yay North and South Dakota! Daily new reported cases per 100K: 107 and 91 respectively. Tops in the nation!

(WI: 74, MD: 10)

Mask wearing has been very high in Italy and still the virus grows. People will not be locked down again. The people will stand against such draconian actions, people need to be able to make a living. The rest of the world doesn’t want to live like authoritarian CCP ruled China.

[quote]Mask wearing has been very high in Italy and still the virus grows.

If it had been high, the government wouldn't have had to impose a fine two weeks ago for not wearing them.

Bars and restaurants are open, and people are not wearing masks as they eat and drink. That and home gatherings are fueling the explosive growth rate in the Western world.

Hospitalized COVID-19 patients who were taking a daily low-dose aspirin to protect against cardiovascular disease had a significantly lower risk of complications and death compared to those who were not taking aspirin, according to a new study led by researchers at the University of Maryland School of Medicine (UMSOM).

Aspirin takers were less likely to be placed in the intensive care unit (ICU) or hooked up to a mechanical ventilator, and they were more likely to survive the infection compared to hospitalized patients who were not taking aspirin.

CNN: White House chief of staff Mark Meadows said Sunday that the US is “not going to control” the coronavirus pandemic, as cases surge across the country and nearly 225,000 Americans have died from the virus.

“We are not going to control the pandemic. We are going to control the fact that we get vaccines, therapeutics and other mitigation areas,” Meadows told CNN’s Jake Tapper on “State of the Union.”

(Of course, that's been their stance from the first week of the "shutdown" -- screw prevention and let the dead pile up while pressing scientists to come up with treatments and vaccines.)

[quote]Pressed by Tapper on why the US isn’t going to get the pandemic under control, Meadows said: “Because it is a contagious virus just like the flu.”

Recasting catastrophic failure as success! Good move so close to Election Day.

We don’t care if you get it, maybe someday we’ll have some ineffective over the counter treatment like Robutussin for Covid. That’s good enough for you.

If they kept that up for a couple of years, half the country would be dead or crippled. Meanwhile, the rest of the world will have moved on.

Is there not one person in Trump’s orbit who can say publicly “This is fucking suicidally insane”?

R183 [quote] And I will not eat or drink anything indoors (other than home)

We haven't either, except on Friday we went into a local distillery's pop-up shop that had just opened in our neighborhood. We were the only people in the store apart from the clerk, and it was pretty spacious, so we each had two tiny samples and moved well away from the clerk as we did so. But I still regret it. Now I'm obsessively thinking, "What if someone else was there 20 minutes earlier and stood there drinking a bunch of samples and talking, and their goddamned virus particles were swirling around the shop right were I took my mask off for 5 seconds?!?"

R202 At least they're finally admitting it openly.

At least 5 people in Pence's orbit, including chief of staff Marc Short, are positive for coronavirus

(CNN)At least five people in Vice President Mike Pence's orbit have tested positive for coronavirus in recent days, including chief of staff Marc Short and outside adviser Marty Obst, a source familiar with the situation told CNN. There are concerns that more people within Pence's inner circle will test positive in the coming days, the source said. "They're scared," the source said of staffers in the vice president's office. Vice President Mike Pence and second lady Karen Pence each tested negative for coronavirus on Sunday, a White House official said. Despite contact with multiple people who recently tested positive, Mike Pence is refusing to quarantine in defiance of the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention guidelines. Pence's office announced Saturday evening that Short had been diagnosed with Covid-19. Sources told CNN that Obst, who is a senior political adviser to Pence but is not a government employee, and at least three staffers in Pence's office have also tested positive for the virus.

Spreadin' the 'rona to own the libs.

R200 how can one wear a mask while they eat and drink?! Overall most have been wearing and complying. Yet still the virus spreads. Spain, France, Belgium, Ireland, Canada ... Governments are using this pandemic to use force on people. We are destroying our democracies, people’s livelihoods and futures carrying on like this. I wear a mask and will continue to do so, but the longer this goes on the more I think it’s for naught.

Have you heard about CA's tough rules on thanksgiving?! Really crazy lol.

Mask wearing has become a religion of sorts

[quote]how can one wear a mask while they eat and drink?!

That's exactly the point. They can't ... which means that any claim that "mask-wearing has been high" is ridiculous on its face.

Mark Meadows was yelling and screaming over Jake Tapper on CNN this morning.

Why do Republicans always think if they don’t have any good answers, yelling and screaming over anybody that tries to ask questions or talk is effective? The base may love it, but everyone else thinks they’re a fucking asshole.

So people should live locked down till a vaccine?? I haven’t eaten in a restaurant since March .. so I get it but .. what is the world to do? Hundreds of millions of people will be thrown into poverty and starvation.

We must find a way forward

We're hamstrung until January 20th, r216.

And what if it rains on Thanksgiving? Not everyone has a covered porch.

[quote]So people should live locked down till a vaccine??

New Zealand isn't locked down. Australia isn't locked down. .Vietnam isn't locked down. Brunei isn't locked down. China isn't locked down. Haiti isn't locked down. Niger isn't locked down. Taiwan isn't locked down. Thailand isn't locked down. All of them have an infinitesimal fraction of the cases and deaths that the U.S. and Western Europe do.

It is possible to negotiate this virus successfully. We just decided not to do it.

Columbia becomes the 3rd s.american country with over 1 million cases.

Oh for goodness sakes. I’ve been to plenty of restaurants since March. Either we get take out or we eat outdoors if the restaurant is set up for that. We tip especially well and order quickly since we know restaurants are struggling. If people really wanted to go to bars safely they’d drink through paper straws under their masks behind a face shield. I get it, it’s frustrating, but this all or nothing nonsense is beyond stupid. This could be much more pleasant and financially less damaging if people would stop acting like petulant 12 year olds and figure out safe work-arounds. If half the country winds up with permanent heart damage the economy is destroyed no matter how many Applebee’s are open.

Take the Anne Frank challenge and ask yourself if you are acting with more or less maturity and grace than Anne Frank? She was a teenage girl. If you can’t pass that challenge well....

It’s like, we decided to let stupid, irrational people who don’t believe in science run things. In other countries, doctors and scientists told people what to do, and in the countries where people listened, it got better.

I don’t get this whole attitude of blaming scientists because people refuse to do what they’ve been told will make things better. Then they’re angry because things aren’t better, and looking for anybody but themselves to blame.

That’s like being mad because you’re playing with matches in the house, and the house catches fire and burns down. Then you blame scientists because they told you fire burns houses.

These European countries, for the most part, had no regulations over the summer when it assuaged for a bit and have continued to allow indoor pubs/dining up until very recently. A pub, is a pub, is a pub. To me, it seems like basically anything indoors + groups = cancelled. A European pub/bar doesn't scream hep filters and ventilation. These are very old buildings. There is not even central AC. And why are these fines not imposed worldwide. The say "fines, fines, fines" where I live, yet I've never seen them imposed. Why even say it, if you aren't going to enforce it? I think people also have a false sense of security when in others homes. They keep saying that's one of the main causes. Watching the game indoors with friends, making that little exception just this once, to have a few friends over who have been "very cautious". I have friends whose parents act more irresponsibly then they do.

[quote]over the summer when it assuaged for a bit

That word does not mean what you think it means.

I was wondering that, R224. I know what assuage means but i wasn't sure if it worked in the context of that sentence. I went for it!

South Dakota:

- Hit a record high in cases on Friday, with their second-highest total on Thursday, and their third highest total on Saturday.

- Has an astonishing 38.5% positivity rate.

- Has the second-highest cases [italic]per capita[/italic] in the country behind North Dakota. Adjusting for their miserable effort in testing, though, and it's clear that South Dakota leads the nation.

- Has six out of the top 10 hardest-hit counties in the country.

Conditions are so bad there that sixteen mayors in South Dakota felt compelled wrote an open letter to the state's population begging them to follow basic guidelines, including social distancing, avoiding large gatherings, washing their hands, and wearing a mask.

Meanwhile, South Dakota's Governor, Kristi Noem, in response to these numbers, wrote a self-congratulatory op-ed in the Rapid City Journal praising herself for her handling of the pandemic and for her decisions to not require masks (even writing, "There are many others who question the effectiveness of masks...."), not impose any restrictions on people or businesses, etc., and with the ridiculous statement that, "From the beginning, my administration has committed itself to following the science...."

Idaho, not to be left behind:

"Moments after hearing an Idaho hospital was overwhelmed by COVID-19 patients and looking at sending people as far away as Seattle for care, members of a regional health department board voted Thursday to repeal a local mask mandate. ..."

"Another member, Allen Banks, denied COVID-19 exists. 'Something’s making these people sick, and I’m pretty sure that it’s not coronavirus, so the question that you should be asking is, ‘What’s making them sick?' he told the medical professionals who testified."

For those who think that we should just reopen and that everything will be fine in the economy, it's not that simple. Even in states where there are no restrictions, businesses are hurting:

[quote]A growing body of research has concluded that the steep drop in economic activity last spring was primarily a result of individual decisions by consumers and businesses rather than legal mandates. People stopped going to restaurants even before governors ordered them shut down. Airports emptied out even though there were never significant restrictions on domestic air travel. ...

[quote]But as the pandemic flares again in much of the country, most economists agree this much is clear: The main thing holding back the economy is not formal restrictions. It is people’s continued fear of the virus itself.

Apparently, the Trump Covid plan includes elves and mall santas

So what should we do with the Dakotas once they're completely depopulated?

People threw a fit when they found out mall Santas would get the vaccine before doctors and nurses.

R228, I tend to think that most rational people hearing about Covid long haulers don’t want to *be* Covid long haulers. They have bills to pay, and you can’t work with neurological damage or damaged lungs at a lot of jobs.

Rational people know they have to keep making a living if they survive, and a lot of people have kids that still need food and clothes even if Mom and Dad can never work again. And they want their kids to continue to live in a nice house and have all the nice toys, not live in (nonexistent) Section 8 housing with Dad lying on the couch with an oxygen tank staring at soap operas.

Is it worth the risk to go on vacation? Not to rational people.

[quote]So what should we do with the Dakotas once they're completely depopulated?

Give it back to the Native Americans.

Spain ... State of Emergency

I bought full sized candy bars in Costco for Halloween, 30 bars for $10. Normally $15. I can open up the box and all the bars will fall into the Halloween bowl that kids can pick from. So they will be untouched by m6 hands. But kids will be told they can’t pick one up & put it back.

Or the Palestinians.

Missouri's numbers are terrible

52 000 cases in France today... We are so fucked. I don't think our healthcare system can handle what's going to happen.

It seems there are several different mindsets going on:

Dr Tom Frieden We're not going back to a pre-Covid world anytime soon. The quicker we accept that, the more we can reduce deaths and economic disruption.

Professor Francois Balloux It is completely beyond me how anyone could think that spreading despair and hopelessness may be a helpful public health strategy. Also, some sense of history and context may help. Ever heard of the 'Roaring Twenties' that followed the 1918/20 pandemic that killed 50-100M?

As far as countries like Thailand, NZ, Taiwan, Korea, Australia - they all had swift action before virus had a chance to really take hold, and grow. Clearly the US did not. Public trust in those governments and institutions are much higher than elsewhere. As someone who has followed this from the beginning, there wasn’t even a will to contact trace and tamp down on virus when It was mainly only in WA! It was deemed too difficult at time to do so by the so called experts. Since that time we have continued to have terrible management from leadership. I don’t think there is a way to isolate the virus anymore with 100k cases/day! It’s easy to say do the Anne Frank test for white collar workers - those who can work from home do. Yet there are many that cannot, and what of the people in the service industry ? Suck it up and scrape by on UI? Switch professions?

We have been able to lockdown, and we will be able to continue. Not everyone can. I don’t know why this is hard to understand.

Yes, R238, there are two mindsets:

Mindset #1 says that we should ignore science, ignore history, ignore the lessons of prior pandemics, ignore the countries that got it right and continue to get it right, and we should instead just give up and let hundreds of thousands of people die.

Mindset #2 says that we should use science, use history, use the lessons of prior pandemics, learn from the countries that got it right and control the pandemic.

The experts did tell us what to do; Trump ignored them. And yes, there is a way to fix this, even with lots of cases. Just ask Israel, which went from 6,214 cases a day on average down to 949 cases a day, reducing the daily case rate by 85%.

Oh, and R238, this statement is completely false;

[quote]It was deemed too difficult at time to do so by the so called experts.

It wasn't "deemed too difficult." In fact, they told Trump what to do and he ignored them. As for the "Roaring Twenties," that's entirely irrelevant, since we didn't get there until after we killed a shitload of people. If that's your solution, my only response to that is "fuck you."

We *know* what to do to solve this crisis. All that's missing is leadership from the Trump administration.

I always see shopping listed as a very low-risk activity but the mayor of El Paso just told CNN that they did a study this month and 37% of the city’s skyrocketing cases came from “big bos stores.” That was the #1 transmission site.

R148 I don't think it's just big cities anymore. I work in a relatively small city in a semi rural area and lately there's been a big increase in cases. Almost doubling every week for three weeks.

People here are just doing whatever. A baptism with 50 people attending. Laser tag with 20 people. "I don't wear my mask around my coworkers because they're my friends". Of course they got contaminated. And schools reopened with no safety measures. We're not even testing kids anymore because we don't want to close down schools. I'm so sick of everything.

r230 - New curtains and lotsa throw pillows, Sylvia.

Lesbians are better than Boy Scouts at being prepared. I'm in awe.

wrong thread@ r244, but it ended up being ok, because of ElderLez n OldLez. (I admit I picture Sylvia as Roz Russell playing Nancy instead of Sylvia Fowler, but I suspect you're a man.)

R242, I watched an episode of Catfish today. Show that normally involves traveling around the country is being filmed via Zoom calls, except that a woman helping her Catfished friend, announced to the call that she would walk right down the street to her friend’s house rather than the friend joining by internet.

When asked by a co-host if she would at least wear a mask when partaking in this unnecessary social mixing, the response was along the lines of, “no need, COVID is more of a big city thing, and this is a small town.”

R241 But are those Texans wearing masks in those big box stores?

[bold]Federal disaster team sent, overflow hospital set up as COVID surges in El Paso[/bold]

A surge in lab-confirmed COVID-19 hospitalizations in far West Texas has prompted state health officials to convert a convention center in El Paso into a makeshift hospital to ease the crush of patients in the state’s 6th-largest city.

In addition, the federal government is now sending two 35-person disaster medical teams to El Paso this week.

Gov. Greg Abbott announced on Sunday morning that the Texas Division of Emergency Management would provide an additional 100 hospital beds for the region at the El Paso Convention and Performing Arts Center.

more at link

[quote]Ever heard of the 'Roaring Twenties' that followed the 1918/20 pandemic that killed 50-100M?

You are actually using the period that immediately preceded and, in fact, contributed to the great depression as a beacon of hope for life after this pandemic?

I'm gonna start looking for a window to jump out of.

R249 It was an example of how normal life came back with vigor after the 1918 flu/WWI - it wasn’t my view, but a tweet from Francois Balloux.

Again I have been pro mask, pro distance and very cautious since March. If one takes a broader look, we are at a point where we must consider the harmful mental, social, physical effects of continued and unending lockdown. Doom and gloom like Dr Friedan using absolutes like “never” going back to normal life, gives people little to hope for. It’s not an effective public health strategy. People have died from other diseases because they are afraid to catch COVID. How many elderly are dying of loneliness ?

Why the hell is SF touted as some amazing COVID miracle when we have had over 400+ OD’s since the beginning of the year ( COVID deaths 124 (est). So many business have let or closed . Drug encampments everywhere.

Look globally - people are rising up against lockdowns all over the world. Expect more uprising and unrest as millions begin to go hungry because they cannot make a living. places like Taiwan, Japan, China, Vietnam, Thailand - they aren’t masking 24/7. They do if they feel unwell and as needed. I think discourse has become very toxic and tribal. It is very unhealthy and sad. When I see videos of police arresting and beating a woman for not wearing a mask as they themselves have masks worn loose or under their nose, I really am perplexed by the point of it all.

[quote]Why the hell is SF touted as some amazing COVID miracle when we have had over 400+ OD’s since the beginning of the year

SF had 441 drug OD deaths last year, so it's not like COVID has caused a huge spike in and of itself.

[quote]But are those Texans wearing masks in those big box stores?

I don't know. Texas does have a mask mandate. The mayor did say that his citizens were making shopping a family affair rather than having one person from a household go to the store.

"We did an analysis for two weeks on 2,404 cases from October 6 through October 20 and what we found is that 37% of our positives were from visiting large big-box stores, 22.5% were restaurants, and 19% were travel to Mexico," Mayor Margo explained, adding that 10% were attributed to parties and reunions, 7.5% were due to gyms and only 4% were due to large gatherings.

R252 I also wonder how many people don't want to admit to having big family gatherings?

Anyway, as we head into this apocalyptic winter (MARY!) I thought I'd share some sources for legit, quality masks that I've found. First up, the Powecom KN95. Good customer service from this shop, also.

And my new favorite is this K94, which has adjustable ear straps so you can get a good seal, and comes in slimming black.

Both of these websites ship from within the US, so you can get your masks pretty quickly.

[quote]It was an example of how normal life came back with vigor after the 1918 flu/WWI - it wasn’t my view, but a tweet from Francois Balloux.

So you're not the only fool suffering from this particular idiocy.

It's unrealistic to think that we're ever "going back to normal" when what is meant is that everything will be just as it was pre-Covid. There have already been big shifts in our culture and there will be more. A lot of companies have gotten rid of their offices and their workers now 100% telecommute, as just one example.

It isn't that we'll be living in perpetual lockdown, but rather that we need to give up any idea of life continuing along as though all this never happened. It's a pivotal event in history and everyday life is indeed forever changed because of it. Sorry that to you that means things are "hopeless," but to the rest of us, it's simply facing reality.

Italy became the latest European country to announce new restrictions to stop the spread of the novel coronavirus on Sunday as countries across the continent continue to report surging infections.

Beginning Monday, restaurants and bars will be required to close by 6 p.m., and gyms, pools and movie theaters must shut down entirely.

The restrictions are the fourth round of tightening this month in Italy, and the most severe since the country lifted its nationwide lockdown in May.

Italy had 1,208 covid-19 patients in intensive care on Sunday — more than on March 9, when Italy imposed a nationwide lockdown.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Honestly, it's all over. COVID is so firmly seeded into Europe and North America (not to mention most other parts of the globe) that without a vaccine I really don't think there is any way to get rid of the fucker.

I think the cold will make numbers go down. Not as many pool parties to be spreader events.

Huge increase in number infected in Oslo and now there's a mandatory mask order there. Thank god I live in a shitty little town. I'm relieved I don't need to use public transportation. I drive my car to and from work every day. I never thought I'd see the day where there are advantages to living in a small town instead of the capital, yet here we are. There is no gay scene here, or gays in general. But hey, at least I most likely won't get infected, so yay?!

Huge increase in number infected in Oslo and now there's a mandatory mask order there. Thank god I live in a shitty little town. I'm relieved I don't need to use public transportation. I drive my car to and from work every day. I never thought I'd see the day where there are advantages to living in a small town instead of the capital, yet here we are. There is no gay scene here, or gays in general. But hey, at least I most likely won't get infected, so yay?!

R260 It's the other way around. People are inside more and packed together more, aka people will spread it more. Also, the virus prefers cold weather. Hence it's more likely to spread more during winter. We are now closing in on winter, so it's not good news....

R260 It's the other way around. People are inside more and packed together more, aka people will spread it more. Also, the virus prefers cold weather. Hence it's more likely to spread more during winter. We are now closing in on winter, so it's not good news....

My middle school nephew, my brother and sister in law all just got diagnosed. Some complete asshole Trumper dad of my nephew's friend "wasn't feeling well" but still had my nephew over to play with his son. No he didn't tell anyone he was sick until they called them to say my nephew had tested positive. I'm fucking livid. My brother has been so careful, wearing his mask, working from home, limiting contact etc. He's in excellent shape, but he is a cancer survivor. It's been 10 years since he beat it, I'm so terrified right now. He's 50 years old. He's really feeling shitty.

My SiL lost two family members to COVID in El Paso in June. The community seemingly just wouldn't change their lifestyle to distance, there are many extended families that hop house to house to house daily. The young and middle aged were just not adjusting their life styles at all even knowing the risks, no one thought it would be them getting ill. Her elderly dad died because the teen/young adult grand kids wouldn't stop daily visits to the grandparents house after school/work everyday to get a home cooked meal/socialize. I seriously do not understand why staying away from the elderly is so hard to understand.

R251

We are trending at 2 OD’s /day significantly more that of 2019 which was 70% higher than 2018 At 251 deaths

“ That puts San Francisco on track to lose more than 700 people to drugs in 2020 — or nearly two every day. That's a shocking rise from the 441 people who died of drug overdoses in 2019 and the 259 who died the year before that. “It's exponentially growing”

If you lived in or near the city you would see how crazy it is. People are moving out like crazy and tents are taking over. Chessa is letting the city get trashed while business and residents leave. It’s a huge public health problem but there is much corruption in the city and many non profits to keep the cycle going! Many of these deaths in so called supportive housing. It’s incredibly sad.

R265 Sorry to hear it. Where do they live?

I try to tell my mother to stay the hell away from her nieces who have school-aged kids. You have no idea what they could be getting exposed to every day.

Thanks R268, Minnesota. I'm still so pissed and scared. My brother sounded a little out of breath when I talked to him

Thanks Sylvia/R253 for the links. KN95's are my favorite after testing what feels like every mask on the market. Someone posted a thread for purchase on here (maybe you?) a while a go and bought a 2 x 5 packs for $30-ish. They are much more expensive if you buy them from a store/off the street.

For those who are working out either indoors or out and have yet to find a mask, I recommend the Under Armour Sport Mask. It's almost like a bra cup in mask so there is a gap between your face and the mask, making it easier to breath. Works well for weights, but still having challenges with any mask doing hard cardio. There have been mixed reviews on this mask. The key is make sure you get the absolute best fit, so do the measurements. Also, the ear loops are not the best. When drying don't hand by the loops but just place the mask on the side of your tub or I just let it dry in my car.

Sweetie, SF was a rotten shithole long before COVID arrived. Newsom ran it into the ground before he moved on to destroying larger game.

I have found that those white KN95s can have a really strong chemical odor. If they come in plastic packaging (mine were sealed in cellophane-ish plastic) then you might want to open them and place a few of them out unfolded to let them air out for a few days. I put one out for a couple weeks on my bookshelf in my bedroom and when I used it, the smell was almost completely gone.

A 7 hour flight to Ireland has been linked to 59 cases of Covid

Statistical observation:

COVID loves the Great Lakes. Six of the states in the Top 10 for new cases right now are in that vicinity: Illinois, Wisconsin, Michigan, Ohio, Indiana, and Minnesota. And Pennsylvania is right there at No 12.

WaPo 10/26/2020

[quote] Eli Lilly said its antibody treatment does not work on patients hospitalized with Covid-19

[quote] The drug maker Eli Lilly said on Monday that its antibody treatment was ineffective on patients hospitalized with advanced Covid-19 and that a government-sponsored trial would not administer the drug to new participants.

[quote] Earlier this month, Chris Christie, the former governor of New Jersey, said he had received the experimental treatment shortly after he was diagnosed with Covid-19. President Trump received a similar therapy, made by Regeneron, soon after he was infected. Both companies have applied to the Food and Drug Administration for emergency use of the treatment in outpatients.

[quote] On Monday, Eli Lilly said the recommendation to discontinue use of the antibody treatment, called bamlanivimab, “was based on trial data suggesting that bamlanivimab is unlikely to help hospitalized Covid-19 patients recover from this advanced stage of their disease.” The company also said “differences in safety outcomes between the groups were not significant.”

[quote] Other trials of the antibody treatment have shown early promise in people who were newly infected with the virus, showing that it can lower viral levels in patients and reduce visits to the emergency room and hospital.

Oh, if only they had waited a couple more days before getting Trump treatment.

The basis for lockdown was a mathematical model by Professor Neil Ferguson. His modelling which predicted half a million deaths in the UK has been roundly condemned as being not fit for purpose. His estimated death figures were clearly wrong by a factor of 10 or 12 times. (1

Countries which did not lock down Sweden, Japan, Taiwan, South Korea and Belarus have all done significantly better than us in terms of percentage of population deaths. They also have herd immunity and intact economies.

Lockdown did not save lives, and this has been published in the Lancet ‘….in our analysis, full lockdowns and wide-spread COVID-19 testing were not associated with reductions in the number of critical cases or overall mortality.’ (3

COLLATERAL DAMAGE THE CURE IS WORSE THAN THE VIRUS

Placing the public under virtual house arrest has caused untold damage to both physical and mental health.(1)

Ventilating patients instead of oxygenating patients proved to be a deadly policy and an unwarranted failure. Ventilation resulted in many unnecessary deaths. (2)

Sending infected people from hospitals to care homes placed the elderly and frail under unnecessary risk and resulted in many unnecessary deaths. (3)

Blanket Do Not Resuscitate (DNR) orders were imposed on thousands of people without their consent nor the consent of their families – this is both unlawful and immoral and lead to unnecessary deaths in care homes. (4)

Hospitals became essentially ‘covid only’ centres vast numbers of patients were wilfully neglected, resulting in many thousands of unnecessary deaths. (5)

The government’s own report estimates that some two hundred thousand (200,000) people will die as a direct result of lockdown – not the virus. Hospitals being closed, suicide and poverty will result in more deaths than the virus. (6

More wisdom from the World Doctors Alliance at r277 (the link), which should help you determine the value of that information-

[quote] It is also abundantly clear that the ‘pandemic’ is basically over and has been since June 2020.

[quote] We have very highly likely reached herd immunity and therefore have no need for a vaccine.

[quote] We have safe and very effective treatments and preventative treatments for covid, we therefore call for an immediate end to all lockdown measures, social distancing, mask wearing, testing of healthy individuals, track and trace, immunity passports, the vaccination program and so on.

Save the date for our 'Pandemic' is Basically Over Party!

(Did you see we put pandemic in scare quotes?)

Such a great article about Czechia - it went from being the envy of the world because of early-on mask use. Then they let up and the President, because of October election, decided it wasn't good to do it again.

Well, now they are the worst in Europe - or even the WORLD. It CAN bet contained through masks.

For some reason, DL won't let me link to CNN. Just Google it.

No self-respecting troll would link to a covid-denial group that was formed two weeks ago. Be best.

[quote]Yet on Oct. 10, Heiko Schöning, a German physician and head of a group known by the German acronym ACU2020, announced formation of an organization called World Doctors Alliance to challenge the veracity of the COVID-19 pandemic. The alliance website claims it is “abundantly clear that the ‘pandemic’ is basically over and has been since June 2020.”

[quote]Staking out the group’s position, Elke De Klerk, a Dutch general practitioner, says on the video, “We do not have a pandemic” and calls COVID-19 a “normal flu virus” – claims flatly rejected by the WHO, CDC, and other experts. De Klerk claims the pandemic designation was based on poor testing, with the polymerase chain reaction, or PCR, molecular test returning false positive results in “89 to 94%” of the cases. That’s not true.

[quote]As for the virus that causes COVID-19, scientists universally agree it is a novel coronavirus, SARS-CoV-2, not a strain of influenza.

Would Quacks' Alliance

R277, I'm going to go with the idea that you aren't actually a troll and are just uneducated leaning toward stupid. So, here's a little tip for the future. On any site you're going to link to, read the 'About' section first. It will be illuminating.

From r283 link:

[quote]I was rewarded with dozens of shields, souvenirs, certificates and tokens of appreciation from all the medical universities and colleges in 2019 only .

ALL the medical universities and colleges? 2019 only?

The world is a scary place.

And then there's this one, R284:

[quote]DR. SCOTT JENSEN, M.D

[quote]Physician, American politician, and member of the Minnesota Senate. A member of the Republican Party of Minnesota, he represents District 47 in the western Twin Cities metropolitan area.

As well as a holistic dentist and a forensic psychologist. Quite a panel of experts there.

[quote]Trust me, I'm a doctor.

Only if you're also a holistic dentist.

Good study on masks

. A cotton mask led to an approximately 20% to 40% reduction in virus uptake compared to no mask (Fig. 2B). The N95 mask had the highest protective efficacy (approximately 80% to 90% reduction) of the various masks examined; however, infectious virus penetration was measurable even when the N95 mask was completely fitted to the face with adhesive tape (Fig. 2B). In contrast, when a mask was attached to the mannequin that released virus, cotton and surgical masks blocked more than 50% of the virus transmission, whereas the N95 mask showed considerable protective efficacy (Fig. 2C). There was a synergistic effect when both the virus receiver and virus spreader wore masks (cotton masks or surgical masks) to prevent the transmission of infective droplets/aerosol

Have any of you been to the dentist since the pandemic started? Mine has reopened, I was due for a check-up in April, and I feel like I should go, but I cannot imagine how it would be safe. Unless the hygienist was full-on Dustin Hoffman in 'Outbreak.'

I am actually going today Sylvia. They prescreen and temp check, plus mask gloves and face shield. Avoiding treatment and preventative care isn’t good either. Dental health is key to overall health. People are getting sick from things now because they are avoiding treatment.

Going to the dentist is much safer than going to an indoor eatery.

I've had work done on four vists since June, and have had no problems.

[quote]They prescreen and temp check,

Which doesn't catch anyone who is presymptomatic or asymptomatic and actively shedding virus.

[quote]plus mask gloves and face shield.

Which protects them from aerosols released by dental procedures performed prior to your appointment but does nothing to protect you.

The media needs to chill about antibodies lessening over time post recovery. It’s all about t-cells.

I have two dentists in my family and I can assure you Sylvia that, in fact, they DO look something like that at work these days. No one in either of their offices has gotten it yet. They also are having patients rinse with hydrogen peroxide to cut down on germs in the mouth.

Nevertheless, I’m still terrified and haven’t gone to the dentist since I missed my scheduled appointment in May either. I should probably go.

R291 - sure, but you’re likely safer than a trip to the grocery shop/big box store. No to mention the fact that dental health is critical to overall health. I think it’s worth it.

[quote]sure, but you’re likely safer than a trip to the grocery shop/big box store.

Ongoing outbreaks in Michigan by setting:

25 in Healthcare (e.g. inpatient, outpatient, dental practices, dialysis, etc.)

0 in Retail - Employee and Patron Associated (3 Employee Associated)

New outbreaks (in last week) in Michigan:

11 in Healthcare (e.g. inpatient, outpatient, dental practices, dialysis, etc.)

0 in Retail - Employee and Patron Associated (4 Employee Associated)

Damn, they didn't release the name of the airline or flight details for the 59 cases! I bet the 7 hr flight went to dublin. they said those seated 2 seats away from 1 of the infected passenger all tested positive.

A new study shows one reason why nursing homes remain at high risk, even with restrictions on visitors: many of the staff work at multiple nursing homes.

[quote]The UCLA team created maps of movement and found that on average each nursing home is connected to seven others through staff movement. Limiting nursing home employees to one facility could mean fewer COVID-19 infections — but that would hurt the workforce of people who say they work multiple jobs because of low wages.

...

[quote]They also found the more shared workers a nursing home has, the more COVID-19 infections among the residents.

I feel that I can go a year or two without having my teeth cleaned or x-rayed.

I practice decent home care.

Only about 1% of dentists have tested positive for COVID. The risk is minimal if proper precautions are taken.

Investor Paul Graham:

If you learned this summer that there are certain things you can do without catching the coronavirus, you may have learned less than you think. There was a lot less coronavirus to catch in the summer.

I went to the dentist for a cleaning last week, I am in CT. The hygienist and dentist were totally decked out in face shields, goggles, hairnets, double gowns and gloves, my dentist also invested in machines that capture particles while doing the cleaning/rinsing. The machine looked a bit like a dr Seuss kind of thing. No waiting inside, they called me from my car. I was prescreened and temp checked. I feel now is the last window before things get rough again here so I bit the bullet.

Did the eye doctor last month, I was desperate for an updated prescription/lenses. Again felt like precautions were being strictly adhered to.

Will likely wait until late spring for a colonoscopy but I did get my flu shot and shingles shot this month. If it's covid calm in your area take care of things now.

I called my dentist's office and asked what precautions they're taking. They gave me the usual pre-screening, taking temps rigamarole. Told me the staff are wearing N-95s, so no Dustin Hoffman, R293.

I asked whether the staff are tested regularly and the receptionist said, "Well, no, but if we had a reason to be tested, we would!"

You mean a reason other than staring into random people's gaping virus maws for 8 hours a day!?

I have really good dental health, it can wait.

Mr. Colbert:

Trump Won't Let Covid Stop His Campaign, Keeps Mike Pence On The Trail Amid New Staff Outbreak

Reuters UK @ReutersUK · 7h Antibodies against the novel coronavirus declined rapidly in the British population during the summer, a study found, suggesting protection after infection may not be long lasting and raising the prospect of waning immunity in the community

I think if you have periodontal disease or other dental problems you might want to keep visiting the dentist. If not, stay away. It's not just the dentist you have to worry about, it's the hygienists, the receptionists, etc. Almost all of whom are women with kids, who are going to schools filled with other germy kids, etc. All of their PPE protects them from you, but it does a lot less to protect you from them.

[post redacted because independent.co.uk thinks that links to their ridiculous rag are a bad thing. Somebody might want to tell them how the internet works. Or not. We don't really care. They do suck though. Our advice is that you should not click on the link and whatever you do, don't read their truly terrible articles.]

My nephew who recovered from a scary case of Covid months ago (high temperature, fainting, rushed to the hospital in an ambulance, etc.,) has suddenly developed red blotches again on his skin. His mom is worried again. Still so much to learn about this virus! Please be safe!

Dakotans keep on truckin' with Rona: Latest daily new infection rate per 100K: 104 for both North and South.

Problem is, with a 2-14 day incubation period, it's almost impossible to tell when Covid exposure happened, unless it's an event where multiple people report illness.

There are too many coronavirus threads to know if this has been posted. If not, check this out as it's rather genius. If so, consider it an encore.

So far today, +367 deaths in the UK, +346 deaths in Iran, + 320 deaths in Russia, +221 deaths in Italy, +89 deaths in Belgium and already +300 deaths in India and the US with many hours to go. Sadly, THIS is happening!

And sadly, few people outside of DL truly, really care. Apathy is fuelling the fire now. It will continue to burn out of control for months to come!

CNN @CNN · 10m The coronavirus outbreak is so bad in Belgium, some Covid-positive doctors are being asked to keep working.

CBS News @CBSNews · 14m Putin orders national mask mandate as coronavirus cases spike in Russia

The Associated Press @AP · 51s Italy is bracing for another day of protests against virus-fighting steps that have closed restaurants and bars early and shut down gyms and pools. Discontent with renewed restrictions aimed at stopping the surge of coronavirus is growing all over Europe

"If you think it's (bad) now, huh, wait until tonight, girl"

Wow r314. It is terrifying to know, really know that Russia is being led by a more rational leader than the U.S.

What is one step below a banana republic?

Last Call

Anyone who doesn’t know there are batshit crazy doctors have never worked in a hospital.

NY is ok, except for the Hasids, who do what they want.

We showed you people what works & what doesn't. Masks & sanitizers work. Everywhere we go there are sanitizers. Wipes are available at store & supermarket entrances for carts. Pump sanitizers at desks. Use them all. Use them in your way in & on your way out. Carry your own pocket version. You can buy pocket sanitizers now at Target, Walmart, drugstores, online.

This weekend I went to a few places and left my mask in the car. As soon as I got to the store door I would see people coming out wearing masks and suddenly I felt naked, like in those nightmares you have where you show up to school or work without pants. Shit! I didn’t want anyone to think I was an anti masker so I sprinted back to my car.

It just seemed like a normal weekend, so I forgot there was a deadly pandemic. Lots of cars driving around, just like normal. It was a momentary wishful-thinking lapse.

We told you people about Trump & you wouldn’t listen & see what happened? We told you about how bad this virus is. We died so you could understand the danger. Our dead bodies taught our doctors what works & what doesnt. Wear a mask. Use sanitizers. We had a full shutdown earlier this year when all those bodies were being put in a mass grave & shoved into refrigerated trucks. Get serious. Lose weight. Don’t smoke. Mask up. Clean your hands.

R320 - Yeah, or when your mask slips off your face you feel like Janet Jackson at the Super Bowl.

Fox News mentions that one of their longtime producers died.....but neglected to mention that he died from the coronavirus

[quote]We died so you could understand the danger. Our dead bodies taught our doctors what works & what doesnt.

For a dead guy you sure type a lot.

And +523 deaths in France!!! "If you think yoru're lonely now..."

Did Tucker Carlson die?

R277 Those doctors from that crack pot organization are ignoring what's going on in Sweden today:

[quote] As of Oct. 18, Sweden’s per-capita death rate—58.6 per 100,000 people—was among the highest in the world. And from early September to early October, average daily cases nationwide rose by 173%, with particularly dramatic increases in cities such as Stockholm and Uppsala.

[quote] Swedish authorities appear to be conceding that reaching herd immunity—the threshold at which enough of a population is immune to the virus for it to stop spreading widely—is unlikely to be happen without a vaccine.

And as the article points out, they're considering a form of lockdown now.

[quote] Discontent with renewed restrictions aimed at stopping the surge of coronavirus is growing all over Europe

I hereby declare a formal moratorium on all of those 'Europeans: They're So Much Better Than Us!' threads.

Similarly, South Korea has an excellent health care infrastructure and implemented an immense contact tracing program. If only ...

Would Americans agree to this type of tracing?

France is shutting down again starting Friday. Here we go again!

OK, people, you had your summer fun, now it's time to pay the price!

[quote]In contrast, when a mask was attached to the mannequin that released virus, cotton and surgical masks blocked more than 50% of the virus transmission, whereas the N95 mask showed considerable protective efficacy (Fig. 2C).

So, if you refuse to wear a mask, negligent homicide it is.

R327. Dear Sylvia. Not saying if we are better or worse here in Europe. But our very crowded cities have very little to do with the US as a whole. If every city in the US was like NYC, or Paris, or London, or Brussels, or Moscow, the situation in the US would already be so much more complicated. Not to mention our enormous public transit system here in every country. Thank God that the US is a vast country where social distancing normally happens as a matter of course, mask or no mask.

R320 couldn't be any more obnoxious with his contempt for "you people" who aren't New Yorkers.

Two of the least populous and least dense American states, North and South Dakota, now have the nation's highest current infaction rates.

It's ultimately about people in close quarters breathing on each other, whether it's a Brooklyn synagogue or a Lutheran "lutefisk and lefse" supper.

[quote] [R320] couldn't be any more obnoxious with his contempt for "you people" who aren't New Yorkers.

You people just won’t learn. We keep leading you to water & you die of thirst.

Minnesota ties 3 Covid outbreaks to Trump rallies in September

R335 And one can't even blame more testing for the high numbers in the Dakotas, because both states are below the national average when it comes to tests per 1M population.

R320 speaks truth

Please don't mention lutefisk, r335.

Seriously, thank you so much DL for helping me get through this! Restaurants are closed, restaurants are open, restaurants are closed again! Stay at home, come to work, please stay at home again! My mind is mush. I am depressed. But I look forward to this chat every day! It helps.

they are saying on TV that recently spike in CA could be linked to LA celebrating the NBA championships.

And this is what makes the situation in the Dakotas , and in other states and rural areas so unforgivable. The disaster that happened in NY was somewhat a given due to their crowed cities and the enormous international travel. It was the perfect storm, especially with the hidden situation in Italy. What happened in NYC was a warning to all of us. Yet, many Americans chose to ignore the warning. There is NO reason that this virus should STILL be spreading in sparsely populated areas. Our stupidity is to blame. Not China!

Small family gatherings are to blame.

By order of Governor J.B. Pritzker, restaurants and bars to close tomorrow for indoor service, and Chicago to follow on Friday. If Chicago has a higher positivity rate than the entire state, with higher daily increases in hospitalisations, why does the City have more time to serve indoors? If we're simply going by the numbers, this doesn't make sense, nor does it account for the many who travel from the suburbs to Chicago's bars and restaurants.

I like Pritzker very much, but this defies logic, and rational thought.

Nearly 7K deaths today worldwide. For sure a reckoning is coming. Prepare!

WaPo 10/27/20

What may be causing the long-haulers' problems:

[quote] Some Covid Survivors Have Antibodies That Attack the Body, not Virus

[quote] Some survivors of Covid-19 carry worrying signs that their immune system has turned on the body, reminiscent of potentially debilitating diseases like lupus and rheumatoid arthritis, a new study has found.

[quote] At some point, the body’s defense system in these patients shifted into attacking itself, rather than the virus, the study suggests. The patients are producing molecules called “autoantibodies” that target genetic material from human cells, instead of from the virus.

[quote] This misguided immune response may exacerbate severe Covid-19. It may also explain why so-called “long haulers” have lingering problems months after their initial illness has resolved and the virus is gone from their bodies.

[quote] In the new study, the researchers looked at 52 patients within the Emory health care system in Atlanta who were classified as having either severe or critical Covid-19, but who had no history of autoimmune disorders.

[quote] They found autoantibodies that recognize DNA in nearly half of the patients. They also found antibodies against a protein called rheumatoid factor and others that help with blood clotting. Among the top half of the most seriously ill patients, more than 70 percent had autoantibodies against one of the targets tested, Dr. Woodruff said.

[quote] “It’s very possible that some of the coagulation issues that you see in Covid-19 patients are being driven by these kinds of immune complexes,” she said.

[quote] If the autoantibodies do turn out to be long-lasting, she said, they may result in persistent, even lifelong, problems for Covid-19 survivors.

Will Texas be the first state to have 1 million cases?

R345, the Chicago restaurant lobby is powerful. End of the month and Halloween $$$, plus using up items already in house.

Yes, we're rounding the curve, all right, and headed straight for the road to hell.

[quote]If Chicago has a higher positivity rate than the entire state, with higher daily increases in hospitalisations, why does the City have more time to serve indoors?

Chicago doesn't have a higher positivity rate. The highest rates are downstate and in the northwest. Suburban Cook and Chicago proper are on the lower end. They didn't even hit the 8% mark that triggers the slowdown. It was increase in hospitalizations and an increase in positivity in seven out of the last ten days. I'm glad they are shutting everything down. People are insane and seemingly need to be treated like misbehaving toddlers instead of adults.

Sylvia - I wouldn't worry about the dentist. I've gone twice for a cleaning and a filling in LA, which has continued to be a hot zone from day 1. There is major filtration and precautions taken. My dentist said if I had waited 2 more months I would have needed a root canal. I can't remember if it was you or someone else, but didn't you or your husband have surgery in a hospital this summer? As always, everyone has to do what makes them comfortable, but I think it's important to keep up with your preventative health regardless - dentists, annual physical, etc.

Powerful Lincoln Project ad brings the Trump response to COVID home:

The governor of Oklahoma refuses to implement a mask mandate or any social distance measures so a Tulsa hospital has resorted to purchasing an ad in the Sunday press to plead for common-sense mitigation efforts:

CNN: In a taped interview on April 18, President Trump's son-in-law Jared Kushner told legendary journalist Bob Woodward that Trump was “getting the country back from the doctors” in what he called a “negotiated settlement.”

Kushner also proclaimed that the US was moving swiftly through the “panic phase” and “pain phase” of the pandemic and that the country was at the “beginning of the comeback phase.” “That doesn’t mean there’s not still a lot of pain and there won’t be pain for a while, but that basically was, we’ve now put out rules to get back to work,” Kushner said. “Trump’s now back in charge. It’s not the doctors.”

(It's worked out so well, hasn't it?)

Yes, we should listen to the guy who thinks windmills cause cancer. Clearly, he's an expert

How could this schlub, who had to pay his way into some goyim college that hates us, be in charge of looking after the health of me and my friends It's a mess, a shanda!

Hear new audio from Kushner on Trump's Covid-19 response

We're back to lockdown in France. But schools won't be closed this time.

Here is why this shit will never end: I work at a clinic and a pt with an appt tomorrow was positive for COVID per his chart. He lied when the appt was confirmed about being positive and insisted on still being seen tomorrow. It was explained to him that his appt would be canceled. He said he didn't know his results, when his chart showed that he had been told of the positive results. So because we have toddlers in the US like this one, this shit is never going to end or get under control. People are beyond selfish and total assholes. I am really pissed off about this. We are all trying to protect ourselves as frontline health care workers and this bitch?

R359, I love it!

People like that need to be criminally prosecuted, R360. I’m sorry you have to deal with such dregs.

R362 They are in Australia.

Elementary schools relatively safe to open in person, middle and high schools not?

Thoughts?

I wonder is this really based on young children shedding less virus or some other biological fact, or is it sociological? Very young children tend to listen to adults more and haven't yet started going around in packs. My only real-life data points are one elementary school teacher friend who has had no cases in her school, and a cousin with two young boys who actually like wearing their masks.

It may be time to reset expectations on when we’ll get a Covid-19 vaccine.

Anna Durbin, a vaccine researcher at Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health, said the public needs to understand that Covid vaccines may be a bit further off than people have been led to believe.

“We may see efficacy in one or more trials by the end of 2020, but that doesn’t mean we’re going to have a vaccine available at the end of 2020,” she said.

The White House publicly denies it. But Trump's own COVID advisers now privately admit that he's pursuing a 'herd immunity' strategy. And that gambit could result in the deaths of thousands and thousands and thousands of people.

So he's trying to facilitate herd immunity with his adherents? Interesting.

I noticed on my Taiwanese friends IG that they're traveling by plane, having indoor gatherings without masks, seemingly living a normal life. I envy them.

Kristi Noem's South Dakota now #1 in daily new infections per 100K: 115. Yay!

Congratulations, you sexy Deplorables' centerfold!

The first FDA-approved drug to fight COVID-19, remdesivir, has only one problem: the evidence indicates that it doesn't help.

[quote]But both decisions baffled scientists who have closely watched the clinical trials of remdesivir unfold over the past 6 months—and who have many questions about remdesivir's worth. At best, one large, well-designed study found remdesivir modestly reduced the time to recover from COVID-19 in hospitalized patients with severe illness. A few smaller studies found no impact of treatment on the disease whatsoever. Then, on 15 October—in this month’s decidedly unfavorable news for Gilead— the fourth and largest controlled study delivered what some believed was a coup de grâce: The World Health Organization’s (WHO’s) Solidarity trial showed that remdesivir does not reduce mortality or the time COVID-19 patients take to recover.

There's a deeper problem, though:

[quote]Science has learned that both FDA’s decision and the EU deal came about under unusual circumstances that gave the company important advantages. FDA never consulted a group of outside experts that it has at the ready to weigh in on complicated antiviral drug issues. That group, the Antimicrobial Drugs Advisory Committee (ADAC), mixes infectious disease clinicians with biostatisticians, pharmacists, and a consumer representative to review all available data on experimental treatments and make recommendations to FDA about drug approvals—yet it has not convened once during the pandemic.

A good long-form story and series of visualizations that explain how the virus spreads in various scenarios (family living room, bar, school) and the impact of mitigations on the infection rate in each of those scenarios. Well worth a look and sharing with others.

Like the U.S., Canada isn't facing a single national outbreak but rather several individual regional outbreaks. Unlike the U.S., one of those regions, the Atlantic region on the east coast, has, so far, managed to avoid a second wave and also had the smallest first wave of any of the regions. As cases spike in Quebec and Ontario, the question is: can the Atlantic Region keep that record?

[quote]As other parts of the country struggle with a second wave of COVID-19 that could be more punishing than the first, the four eastern provinces have managed to keep the pandemic at bay and even relaxed a social gathering limit Thursday, with a mixture of good fortune, public co-operation and some of the toughest public-health rules in Canada. The region has reported just a handful of infections in the past month, all of them tied to people travelling outside Atlantic Canada. There has been little more than 1,610 cases of the disease in the Atlantic provinces since March, compared with more than 154,000 in the rest of Canada. ...

[quote]New Brunswick and Prince Edward Island, with rates of around 25 and 36 cases per 100,000 people, respectively, are doing better than New Zealand, which is held up as a model for success in controlling COVID-19.

R370 I was just about to post that link. Really excellent, please take a look.

Covey Spreader

To do trick or treating this year is INSANE and will certainly result in a rise in infections.

Mr. Colbert:

Ending The Coronavirus Pandemic Is NOT One Of Donald Trump's Accomplishments

A cautionary tale for the U.S.:

Case counts in much of Canada are climbing, even in parts of the country that imposed new autumn restrictions. Canadians celebrate Thanksgiving on the second Monday of October, and both provincial and federal officials have pointed to the holiday as a culprit in the spike.

Linky stinky, R370.

Linky definitely non-stinky r377.

Just opened it.

+21K cases and +132 deaths here in Belgium today . The equivalent of more than a half million cases and 3.5K deaths in the US based on population size. In one day! ICU beds are filling up fast. The situation is getting very scary

Girls, girls, you're *both* stinky.

R379 You've probably given us more context in the past, but please refresh my memory. Why are things so bad in Belgium? Lack of restrictions, obstinate population, what?

Hello Sylvia. Thank you for your question. Honestly, it is a very difficult question as we imposed very strict measures early on. Also, unlike many other countries, our excess deaths are in line with Covid deaths. So I think no major corrections will come later on when more analysis is done unlike some other countries. Unfortunately, many countries around the world have not been fully transparent about the gravity of the situation. Belgium is also a very complicated country due to our location, population density (which is very high compared to the EU average), crazy political situation and cultural breakdown. We have several regions with different rules, 2 principle languages (Dutch and French) and 2 other languages (German and English) which are also popular . This is good and bad as there are many differences from one region to another and also includes the handling of this crisis. Some others have questioned the efficiency of our health care system. But, for me, I have no complaints whatsoever. Maybe some of this is also just bad luck

Italy exploding again.

R378 I got a 404 error the first time I clicked, but when I went back later it opened. Great info there, thanks!

Something to ponder for real time perspective: From ABC News: Every 1.2 seconds, an American tests positive for Coronavirus, and every 107 seconds, an American dies from COVID.

A genetic mutation which had originated in Spain amongst agricultural workers is now responsible for most of Europe's second wave of infections. It seems that scientists cannot agree whether this strain is more contagious.

Called 20A.EU1, this strain or variant is to be discussed in a research paper to be published in a peer reviewed journal. Emma Hodcroft, the evolutionary geneticist at University of Basel, and lead author of the study, says the EU version is is unlike any version of Sars-CoV-2 that she had previously come across.

New strain responsible for 8 of 10 UK cases, 80% of Spanish cases, 60% of Irish cases, and 40% of Suisse and French cases.

Has anyone read the peer reviewed paper? There are several articles out in newspapers, even Financial Times, yet awaiting the full news of the study.

It’s awaiting peer review. The whole paper is at your link under Preview PDF.

COVID has brought on one additional behavior modification for me - I avoid young adults like the PLAGUE now. Anyone between 15 and 35 are suspicious characters.

I had to fly recently (death in the family) and a college woman came up and sat one seat away from me in the airport. I immediately packed up my shit and fled to an empty gate's seating area.

They're the spreaders - why aren't we treating them as such? Millennials and Gen Z'ers seem to be more civic-minded and responsible - if we start a campaign targeted to them on social media, maybe they'd get the message and we can tamper this a bit.

R382 - thank you for that. I thought, initially, that Belgium's deaths were so high in the Spring due to that they were counting suspected COVID deaths (most countries were not) and that Belgium has one of the highest long-term care for people over 65 in Europe (only Netherlands and Luxembourg is higher).

But the new outbreak is crazy. They blame it on COVD fatigue - but every country had that. Some news organizations are saying there isn't much contact tracing being done in Belgium.

Is commerce traffic through Belgium larger than in other areas? Goods from Netherlands, a lot of Western Germany, Denmark and Sweden would need to route through Belgium.

It's just a strange outlier statistically. Your country was and is getting slammed so disproportionately to other countries.

Don Jr is claiming that coronavirus deaths are "down to nothing"

Over a thousand people died today

R391 - a thousand being counted by whatever means. Some states are not counting deaths like they should. That's why the excessive deaths are so telling.

I have a feeling Trump's children will find some other country to live in - they should not be allowed back into polite society.

I just found this resource and haven't watched myself, but it comes highly recommended by fellow science adjacent folks.

According to the Covid Exit Strategy site, Vermont is the only state that is Trending Better (-1 from last week), Hawaii and Maine are the only states that are Caution Warranted (-1 from last week), 9 states are Trending Poorly (-2 from last week), and 38 states are Uncontrolled Spread (+4 from last week).

DL won't let me link to it but:

[quote]A CNN investigation of 17 Trump campaign rallies finds that 14 of the host counties -- 82% of them -- had an increased rate of new Covid-19 cases one month after the rally. ... Of the 14 host counties that had increased infection rates, eight of the counties had declining rates of infection in the month before the rally.

Politico: Vice President Mike Pence hasn't participated in the weekly COVID task force phone call with the nation's 50 governors in over a month.

As the U.S. confronts its biggest Covid-19 surge to date, Pence is not expected to be on the line again today.

More evidence that this administration has simply given up on even the pretense of caring whether this virus kills hundreds of thousands of Americans.

R396 Did I miss something because the impression I've gotten all year is that they don't care one bit. The sooner that trash is out of the White House the better. I don't know anything about Biden but a sewer rat would be an improvement over the mob of the last four years.

North Dakota: latest New Cases per 100K (seven day average): 124.

South Dakota: 115.

Maryland: 13.

The lieutenant governor of Idaho is driving around in a truck with a bible and a gun to protest Covid restrictions *rolls eyes*

My state has seen alarming case increases in the last three weeks but it hasn't been as bad as the surrounding states. I got a text this morning from a friend who works in the largest local hospital system:

"It's blowing up here. Really bad. Go to the store only if u must. Wear mask even outside."

I texted back for details but he's still working.

R400 - go ahead and name the state. It's not going to dox you.

9.9 million Americans are not up-to-date on their rent or mortgage payments

From CNN's Lauren Lee

The economic downturn caused by the Covid-19 pandemic has created widespread housing insecurity for renters, homeowners and the homeless population in the United States.

By the end of October, 9.9 million Americans were not up-to-date on their rent or mortgage payments and had little to no confidence that their household could pay next month's rent or mortgage on time, according to the US Census Household Pulse Survey.

"To be able to understand the eviction crisis that we're facing today, we have to recognize where we were before Covid-19 came to our country -- and that was in the midst of a severe affordable housing crisis," said Diane Yentel, president and CEO of the National Low-Income Housing Coalition (NLIHC).

According to the NLIHC, the US has a shortage of 7 million affordable rental homes available to low-income renters.

Coupled with the long-term homeless crisis, many Americans are now scrambling to figure out how to obtain or sustain a place they call home under the economic toll Covid-19 has had on families and individuals across the country.

Fucking assholes.

We’d been doing well at containing the virus.

But there’s always a group who decided the rules aren’t for them.

Belgium will be in national lockdown for a minimum of six weeks.

Wisconsin ... "In these two months, our seven-day average has increased by more than 500 percent."

R400, what state? Enquiring minds want to know.

[quote]what state?

Michigan.

US positivity rates by state. Some of these are scary

It's going to be interesting what the populace of ND, SD, and Idaho are going to take on their impending disaster. With those positivity rates, their numbers are probably 5x what is being reported.

Meanwhile, that MF and his family continue to spin amazing lies and his supporters continue to eat it up! Sadly, The Wizard of Oz is a story that could only take place in America! XO, the world

+95K cases already in the US today. Yeah, we are turning the corner as Chump said.

R411: 😯 OMG. I am stock-shopping Sunday and keeping my ass home! Between election results and Covid, shit is about to get crazy!

Wait, wait, wait. My browser was not refreshed. 98K cases now according to Worldometer!!!

Wait, you're telling me it didn't disappear like a miracle?!

R413 - Fuck!!! Halloween (and this Winter) is going to suck in a bad way tomorrow! This is just the beginning. The Summer was so chill (low stats). WTF happened?!! maybe this virus loves Fall/Winterr after all.

Dump lied about having it to give people a false sense of hope! He knew about the insane increases and future projectory.😡

And already +564k cases worldwide. Worldometer will definitely need to expand their graph ceiling of 600K cases per day asap. Next week is going to be grim. It is Halloween after all.

ding, ding, ding. Over 100K cases now in the US! Fauci was right all along

Dr Fauci Will Have His Revenge on Trumplandia

R415, I do think the virus prefers fall/winter. The reason it didn't disappear in the summer was because the world was its oyster -- no one previously vaccinated or immune. I don't buy that it all has to do with people gathering inside more now. It's 2020 -- plenty of people have indoor gatherings with the AC on in the summer, not to mention road trips with people crammed into one car. Maybe it's lower vitamin D levels? And that's why Europe, which is further north than much of the US, got the fall slam before we did?

Remember when we were getting a vaccine in late October?

Top 5 New Cases States as of 8 pm tonight: Illinois, 7,164 Texas, 6,819 Florida, 5,592 Wisconsin, 5,096 California, 4,885

Context is everything.

Population of Wisconsin - 5.822 million, 5096 cases

Population of California - 39.51 million, 4,885 cases

Do you think using masks could have anything to do with this?

[quote]Remember when we were getting a vaccine in late October

It'll come before the Republican health plan, but after Infrastructure Week.

The USA passed the 100K mark in one day: +101,461 new cases on Friday 10.30.20...(click the ‘Yesterday’ link for stats until 9 pm EST 10.30.20). I feel like I am in a Sci-Fi horror movie that I can’t turn the fuck off. At least I have my GreyGoose (fuck wine).

BBC now reporting, "Spreading faster in England than worst case scenario ... ."

Admittedly, I was feeling the pandemic fatigue this week and thinking we shouldn't be stopping indoor dining and adding more restrictions that are going into place this week. I'm in suburbs of Chicago and IL's numbers are going up as well as positivity rate. Then boom, yesterday four people I know tested positive. Including my brother. Other brother and SIL tested positive in March. Brings back the anxiety about how scary this thing is. Puts things in perspective. This virus just sucks.

Are we getting into The Walking Dead territory, or is that right before the Inauguration?

You know if Trump loses, he will actively try to spread the virus as much as possible, so Biden is sworn in somewhere around the time Rick and company visit the CDC. Right about as civilization is collapsing.

I’m really wondering if we’re going to be in the “bring out your dead” stage by then. At a certain point, so many people are either dead, sick or hiding, that people are getting sick because of infrastructure issues. Maybe people freezing to death because they were all evicted in the dead of winter. Trump would love to see the U.S. collapse right around when Biden gets in, so he can go on Fox and claim it’s all Biden’s fault.

Seriously, Biden can’t have a regular Inauguration, can he? Will he get sworn in inside the White House on TV?

Hopefully, although the infection rate is high, the death rate will (continue to be) low...

R249 The death rate remains relatively low because of better treatment measures. However, if more and more people get critically sick and hospitals don't have the capacity to treat everybody the deaths will rise due to overwhelmed medical services.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

R430 Not to mention that when you get shot in the post-election/pre-inauguration melee, you won't be able to receive treatment because the hospital halls will be jammed with COVID cases.

R431 I just can't understand any of this. Do people WANT to die??

A Stanford University study estimates that 18 Trump rallies from June 20 through September 22 have led to at least 30,000 COVID cases and more than 700 deaths.

Worldwide, a record 565.8k new cases were reported yesterday.

The U.S. reported a record 99.3k new cases yesterday, up from 83.7k a week ago. The average daily case count is now ~80k, a figure that would have been a record high two weeks ago. The overall positivity rate inched upward to 6.4%.

The new U.S. daily case record is also a new worldwide record, beating the 97,894 cases that India reported on September 17th.

The U.S. hit 9 million confirmed cases yesterday, 14 days after we hit 8 million cases. That's the fastest 1 million case climb we've seen, beating the old record of 15 days set on July 23 as we went from 3 million to 4 million cases.

The U.S. reported 1,030 deaths yesterday, up from 945 a week ago.

According to the COVID Tracking Project, hospitalizations have climbed from 28,608 on September 20th to 46,688 yesterday. 18 states have reported record high hospitalizations in just the past week.

New case records were reported yesterday in Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Illinois, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Maine, Massachusetts, Minnesota, Montana, Nevada, New Jersey, North Dakota, Ohio, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Rhode Island, South Dakota, Utah, Virginia, West Virginia, and Wyoming.

More stats and info at the link.

700 COVID-19 dead rally-going Deplorables is a start. About 70 million more to go!

Trump knows he's going to lose, so he's doing Scorched Earth to the max for Biden.

It's only October. I'm not sure we can blame the cold weather on this new surge just yet. So what's the cause? Is it just fatigue set in and people don't care anymore if they get it?

England will enter a month-long lockdown from Thursday, Boris Johnson has announced.

Until 2 December, people in England will only be allowed to leave their homes for specific reasons, such as education, work or food shopping.

Wisconsin running out of health care workers.

R437 Another thing I don't understand.

And as much as I want to believe in the power of vitamin D, surely THAT many people can't be vitamin D deficient? In El Paso, and New Mexico, and Arizona, and so many other sun-drenched places?

I don't know what to think anymore. Societal collapse, here we come!

Popular Science outlines factors involving Vitamin D:

Aw fuck, r441. I just bought two jars of it.

So just take it reasonably rather than megadosing, R442. Taking 1000-2000 IU each day is quite safe and should make up for any deficiency you may have.

Well, I take a multiple that contains 700 IU, r443. The D's I just bought are 2000. I don't know how much I'm getting from my diet, but I've been getting very little sun. I don't know.

We’re getting lots of kids here for Halloween. I only bought 90 full sized bars (and ate about 6 of them). We might run out.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

My doctor recommended vitamin D3, 2000 IU daily. I was running out early in the pandemic (people were hoarding vit D), but I found some on sale on boxed.com that were only 1000 IU but there were 650 in the jar so I just take 2 daily. Worked out cheaper even if I have to take 2.

R445, hand them a note that says "Mom and dad should have told you to stay the hell home"

Costco always has vitamin D

You shouldn't get vitamins from supplements. You should get them from your food. Meat cooked rare is a good start.

Does that go for your meatloaf as well, Mrs. Steele?

I was taking 2,000 IU of Vit D3 a day, and when my levels where checked I was still too low. So now I am taking 10,000. Everyone should get their levels tested to be sure of where they are at.

[quote]Clearly, none of us anticipated such a vitriolic response.

Stupidity, anti-science, flawed and unsupported premises, and sociopaths deciding to kill millions of people does tend to warrant a "vitriolic response."

And these idiots still continue to ignore the data that show that the economy will not recover until the pandemic is solved. You can reopen any damn thing you want but if the hospitals are filled to overflowing, people are not going to be out eating, shopping, or buying.

[quote] You can reopen any damn thing you want but if the hospitals are filled to overflowing, people are not going to be out eating, shopping, or buying.

I keep waiting for big businesses themselves to realize this. In the US, change won't happen until -businesses- realize that it's in their financial best interests to help reduce the virus and starts creating serious, enforced policies.

(And when someone realizes the money to be made by cheap at-home covid tests, maybe we'll get somewhere.)

Colorado spiking ... with record number of hospitalizations expected within the next two weeks.

A neighbor across the street was having a Halloween party. at least 50 kids were going in and out of the townhouse and then they were gathering outside buildings including the street corner...making all kinds of noise, talking loudly, shouting etc...for hours! and it was cold outside and many didn't have masks on.

I called 311 to complain and the guy who took my complaint said there were over 200 kids in Washington Sq Park drinking and smoking...

Numbers will definitely go up in coming weeks.

Why aren't cops doing their jobs with these assholes?

San Francisco pauses planned reopening due to increase in coronavirus cases and hospitalizations

From CNN's Sarah Moon

San Francisco will temporarily pause the planned reopening of some businesses and activities due to a recent increase of coronavirus cases and hospitalizations, Mayor London Breed announced in a briefing on Friday.

“We are starting to see a slight uptick in the number of hospitalizations, which puts us in a situation where things could possibly get worse than what they are,” Breed said. “As a result of some changes that we’ve seen in the numbers, what we will have to do as a result is put a pause on some of our reopening efforts that we have planned for next week.”

In a press release, city officials said the reopening pause was due to an uptick of cases and hospitalizations in San Francisco following an increase in cases across the state and nation.

“Today is not unexpected with regard to our pause in reopening,” San Francisco Department of Public Health Director Dr. Grant Colfax said. “As our activity increased, we realize, we know, we expected an increase in infections was likely.”

Colfax added that “this increase is a cause for concern.”

“We want to pause on increasing the capacity of riskier activities because we do not want the virus to get too far ahead of us,” Colfaxm said.

The pause means that the indoor capacity for businesses will remain at 25%, according to Breed. The city had planned to expand the capacity for some indoor businesses to 50% starting next week.

R457 Because they're Trumpers.

It has nothing to do with left or right. Take a look at the global picture. People should not be locked down like prisoners. People are foregoing their regularly needed health care. Elders and young are dying of loneliness and isolation. Expect more civil disobedience world wide over harsh, zchina styled policies.

Italy last night

An Irish doctor’s view on the matter. Why is any kind of dialogue shut down?

[quote]People should not be locked down like prisoners.

Please provide a list of countries in which citizens are confined to their homes.

[quote]People are foregoing their regularly needed health care.

Please provide a list of countries in which people are barred from receiving health care.

[quote]Elders and young are dying of loneliness and isolation.

Please provide stats on just how many people have died of "loneliness and isolation."

Yesterday was the day the U.S. was supposed to have 100 million doses of coronavirus vaccine available for distribution. Did you get yours?

"Like prisoners, r460"?

r460 from the *DL fave Glenn Greenwald resigns from The Intercept* thread:

I find it horrifying the amount of blatant propaganda pushing from left and right. Glenn has sources. Emails are pretty easy to verify. Yes the whole story is dumb as hell, but if you have known any tweakers- you know it’s not that far fetched.

Just give me the truth.

It's really bad here in Europe. The borders closed, the hospitals full

Scientists think that tiny genetic differences are causing some people to suffer much more severely with coronavirus.

Key developments include research which indicates that interferon – a molecular messenger that stimulates immune defenses against invading viruses – may play a vital role in defending the body.

Scientists have found that rare mutations in some people may leave them unable to make adequate supplies of the interferon they need to trigger effective immune responses to Covid.

[quote]It's really bad here in Europe. The borders closed, the hospitals full

France, Belgium and UK locked down, and Italy will be next: Italy’s health minister has described new data on the coronavirus pandemic as “terrifying”, saying that the country had two days to approve further restrictions to curb the spread of the virus.

[quote]And as much as I want to believe in the power of vitamin D, surely THAT many people can't be vitamin D deficient?

UK scientists are calling for ministers to add vitamin D to common foods such as bread and milk to help the fight against Covid-19.

Up to half the UK population has a vitamin D deficiency, and government guidance that people should take supplements is not working.

I live in L,A., surf and run, drink a bit of dairy and consume cheese, and still am Vitamin D deficient. It's the use of sunscreen.

[quote]It has nothing to do with left or right. Take a look at the global picture. People should not be locked down like prisoners.

Would you fucking naysayers pull your fucking heads out of your fucking asses and actually *think* for once?! You're right about one thing: it has nothing to do with left or right. European countries aren't locking down because of politics or ideology or because they think it's popular. They're locking down because their health care systems are on the verge of being overwhelmed.

[quote]For Germany, the breaking point could come in December. France and Switzerland might crack by mid-November. Belgium could hit its limit by the end of the week. Europe, in the throes of a savage second wave of the pandemic, is on the verge of a medical crisis, with intensive care units quickly filling to the breaking point." ...

[quote][In Europe], deaths rose by a third in seven days. Occupancy of intensive care units doubled in 17 days leading up to Oct. 25.

[quote]... A week ago, French intensive care beds were half full. Now, they are more than two-thirds occupied, with more than 3,100 covid-19 patients.

[quote]... There were 1,839 coronavirus cases being treated in German intensive care beds on Friday, doubling from 10 days earlier and a fivefold increase since Oct. 1. ... 'We are alarmed,' said Joachim Odenbach, a spokesman for the German Hospital Association. There is a shortage of 4,700 intensive care staff members, he said.

[quote]... In Belgium and the Netherlands, staffing shortages are leading nursing homes and hospitals to ask doctors and nurses to keep working if they have tested positive for the virus but are asymptomatic, since so many other medical workers are sick or quarantining.

[quote]... Polish hospital cases have doubled in 10 days, and authorities are just now building a 1,200-bed field hospital in the National Stadium in Warsaw.

[quote]... [Czech] Prime Minister Andrej Babis predicted that the health system would collapse between Nov. 7 and 11 if he did not impose the lockdown he announced Oct. 21.

Go ahead: try to reopen the economy when you've got bodies lining hospital corridors, refrigerator trucks in parking lots acting as temporary morgues, doctors and nurses exhausted and overwhelmed and getting sick themselves, and the entire health care system on the brink of collapse.

[quote]An Irish doctor’s view on the matter. Why is any kind of dialogue shut down?

For the same reason we "shut down" "any kind of dialogue" that says that the earth is flat or that the moon is made of green cheese, R461. Because "dialogue" should not include ridiculous, dangerous nonsense that puts people's lives at risk.

I've maintained for decades that we were due for a huge pandemic...I think it happens every 100 years or so.

Totally agree r471 not sure why this is so hard for people to understand

Totally agree r471 not sure why this is so hard for people to understand

Shocking.....not!

Guardian-Iran’s true death toll is likely to be at least three times higher than the reported figure, the head of Iran’s Medical Council has said. Earlier, it was reported that the country’s daily tally of coronavirus deaths had hit a record high of 434. The deaths, announced by Health Ministry spokeswoman Sima Sadat Lari on state TV, take the official toll to 35,298 in the Middle East’s worst-hit country. She also said the number of confirmed coronavirus cases increased by 7,719 to 620,491. However, the head of Iran’s Medical Council, Mohammadreza Zafarghandi, doubted the accuracy of the official toll and warned that Iran had reached a “catastrophic mortality rate”, according to the Students News Agency ISNA. The official death toll is only based on the number of registered patients,” Zafarghandi said. “Through field surveys in hospitals and cemeteries, our Council has obtained a figure at least three times higher than the official death toll.” The medical council is a non-governmental organisation that is responsible for licensing doctors in

The Science of Superspreading

In COVID-19 and many infectious diseases, most people don't infect anyone else. A small percentage of people cause most of the transmission. A study published in April estimated that 10% of patients are responsible for 80% of the spread. A study from India published in Science last month concluded that 8% of infected people caused 60% of the secondary cases; 70% of people did not pass the virus on to anyone else.

If you find out someone has COVID-19, you can trace their contacts and test or quarantine them. But there is a high likelihood they didn’t infect a single other person. However, there is a high likelihood that person became infected at a superspreading event.That’s why contact tracers in some countries now spend more time understanding where someone was infected and finding other people from the same cluster.

This is called backward contact tracing. It can help find more chains of transmission.

"I've maintained for decades that we were due for a huge pandemic...I think it happens every 100 years or so."

So, in the 1980s you were warning everyone of a huge pandemic that would be coming around 2020 - 100 years or so after the last huge pandemic?

That moron at r446 was claiming in March that at least 40% of the UK had already been infected with Covid-19 and we were well on our way to herd immunity, so theoretically the UK should have beaten the virus months ago with no need for any measures, yet here we are.

The WH laid into Anthony Fauci this morning after Facuci told the Washington Post yesterday that:

[quote]“We’re in for a whole lot of hurt. It’s not a good situation, All the stars are aligned in the wrong place as you go into the fall and winter season, with people congregating at home indoors. You could not possibly be positioned more poorly.”

[quote]Fauci said he has "real problems" with radiologist Scott Atlas and that he actually appreciated chief of staff Mark Meadows saying last weekend on CNN that the administration was not going to control the pandemic. “I tip my hat to him for admitting the strategy,” he said. “He is straightforward in telling you what’s on his mind. I commend him for that.”

The WH response from spokesman Judd Deere:

[quote]Deere said Fauci “knows the risks [from the coronavirus] today are dramatically lower than they were only a few months ago. It’s unacceptable and breaking with all norms for Dr. Fauci, a senior member of the President’s Coronavirus Task Force and someone who has praised President Trump’s actions throughout this pandemic, to choose three days before an election to play politics. As a member of the Task Force, Dr. Fauci has a duty to express concerns or push for a change in strategy, but he’s not done that, instead choosing to criticize the President in the media and make his political leanings known by praising the President’s opponent — exactly what the American people have come to expect from The Swamp.”

I guess attacking America's most trusted voice on the pandemic will thrill the Trump base, but it seems an odd strategy for expanding your vote.

Well done!

Guardian-Slovakia tested almost half of its entire population yesterday, as part of a two day mass testing programme designed to bring coronavirus under control without implementing further lockdown measures. Of the 2.58m people tested, 1% were positive and will have to quarantine.

[quote] Why aren't cops doing their jobs with these assholes?

In NYC, cops are rightwing assholes who live in Suffolk county & northern NJ who hate DeBlasio & Cuomo & they want covid to spike. They also refuse to deal with homeless people & they spread the lie that NYC is teeming with more homeless than ever before. They want crime to spike in order to blame it on “dem politicians.” Except crime & homelessness is nowhere near where it was in the 80s & 90s, as those of us who lived through the 80s & 90s can tell you.

*wonders* Are there any CV numbers regarding the homeless? They seem like they're impervious out here in the West Coast.

Until people master the art of becoming less stupid and less selfish, this virus will continue to run rampant.

🙊 Did any of you actually open your door to Trick or Treaters ?

R483 I wonder as well. Many dying in SF from fentanyl and murders, sepsis. From info back in March/April - most homeless tested at shelter were poz but asymptomatic

[quote]Did any of you actually open your door to Trick or Treaters ?

I kept my porch light off ... and so did most of my neighbors. I only saw two houses on the entire street with a light on. We're usually swamped with kids but I only saw 15-20 traipse by last night.

We left "help yourself" candy on our porch, but no trick or treaters came. Pretty normal for our street, pandemic or not.

I was in NYC last week and the only people consistently NOT wearing masks were NYC PD. One Clump of 8 were crammed in a van together (getting takeout from my vantage point) all unmasked.

The second wave that is currently hitting Europe is going to devastate the US in the coming months. Some areas in the US are still experiencing the first wave! As Dr. Fauci said, there is going to be a "whole lot of hurt". Currently, Europe (including the UK) is taking drastic measures to avoid a total collapse of the healthcare systems. Are republican governers ready to do the same? We are so incredibly fucked!

R478 Even 'W' knew that it was a-coming!

Keep on Ronin', Dakotans! Daily new infections (per 100K) on the rise, and rise, and RISE!: 139 (North) and 134 (South).

Wisconsin: 81. Iowa: 66.

Maryland: 14.

Priceless

The mainstream narrative about Covid-19, in the West, is this:

It’s a quite deadly and novel disease There are no effective treatments Sadly, no double-blind placebo controlled trials exist to support some of the wild claims out there about various off-patent, cheap and widely available supplements and drugs Health authorities care about saving lives They care so much, in fact, that along with politicians they’ve decided to entirely shut down economies There’s a huge second wave rampaging across the US and Europe and there’s nothing we can do to limit it except shut down businesses and people’s ability to travel and gather You need to fear this virus and its associated disease All we can do is wait for a vaccine The alternative narrative, one that I’ve uncovered after 9 months of almost daily research and reporting, is this:

It’s not an especially dangerous disease and it’s certainly not novel There is a huge assortment of very effective, cheap and widely-available preventatives and treatments including (but not limited to) Vitamin D Ivermectin Hydroxychloroquine Zinc Selenium Famotidine (Pepcid) Melatonin Use of a combination of these mostly OTC supplements could reasonably be expected to drop the severity of illness and the already low mortality rate by 90% or (probably) more Western health authorities have shown either zero interest in the results of studies mainly conducted in poorer nations on these combination therapies or… They have actively run studies designed to fail so that these cheap, effective therapies could be dismissed or… Set up proper studies but which started late, have immensely long study periods and most likely won’t be done before a vaccine is hastily rushed through development. By the way – every single one of my assertions and claims is backed by links and supporting documentation from scientific and clinical trials and studies. I am not conjecturing here; I am recounting the summary of ten months’ worth of inquiry.

The conclusion I draw from my narrative (vs. theirs) is that we can no longer assume that the public health or saving lives has anything to do with explaining or understanding the actions of these health “managers” (I cannot bring myself to use the word authorities).

After we eliminate the impossible – which is that somehow these massive, well-funded bodies have missed month after month of accumulating evidence in support of ivermectin, hydroxychloroquine, vitamin D, NAC, zinc, selenium and doxycycline/azithromycin – what remains must be the truth.

As improbable as it seems, the only conclusion we’re left with is that the machinery of politics, money and corporate psychopathy is suppressing life saving treatments because these managers have other priorities besides public health and saving lives.

This is a terribly difficult conclusion, because it means suspending so much that we hold dear. Things like the notion that people are basically good. The idea that the government generally means well. The thought that somehow when the chips are down and a crisis is afoot, good will emerge and triumph over evil.

I’m sorry to say, the exact opposite of all of that has emerged as true.

Of course that quote is from Peak Prosperity. They take a niche, contrarian view. That’s how they make a living. I followed them in 2011 or so and read a couple of books which were in their line. They specialize in a certain rabble-rousing, self-protectionist mindset. Getting people angry sells!!!

"I was in NYC last week and the only people consistently NOT wearing masks were NYC PD. One Clump of 8 were crammed in a van together (getting takeout from my vantage point) all unmasked."

R489, sounds like you're not from NYC, so why did you travel there in the middle of a pandemic? People are under a serious delusion if they think that they can carry on as normal if they just wear a mask.

That peak prosperity dude is a crank. He's conveniently left dexamethasone and anticoagulants off both lists - inexpensive, already FDA approved medications founds to be effective (dexamethasone during cytokine storm only) and in widespread use by clinicians already. He also ignores inexpensive non-drug based modalities like re-jiggered CPAP machines and proning patients on ventilators) that have improved outcomes. He pretends research into treatments that are not vaccines isn't occurring by also conveniently forgetting monoclonal antibodies, therapeutic plasma and hyperimmune globulin.

Having listened to some of his broadcasts earlier in the year his definition of a well-run study is one he likes the outcome of. And he selectively pretends to be stupid (I don't know what a registry study means, but this is a great study, not like those non-placebo controlled studies over there.)

BTW, no matter what he says there are plenty of perfectly fine ivermectin studies happening.

R489. you obviously didn't go to brooklyn lol.

Nearly 400 revelers busted at NYC Halloween warehouse party

It was a mostly maskless monster mash.

A Brooklyn Halloween party with nearly 400 revelers was busted early Saturday for violating social-distancing and large-gathering rules, officials said.

Using surveillance video, the New York City Sheriff’s Department watched about 150 people enter a warehouse at 23 Meadow St. in Williamsburg before sending deputies to the scene around 1 a.m.

Inside, they found 387 people dancing — many without masks — live performers, Halloween decorations, a DJ and three walk-up bars, according to a spokesman.

Deputies shut down the bash and issued desk appearance tickets to the party organizer and eight others, including security guards, employees and entertainers.

BTW not sure why but DataLounge now seems to be blocking links to clinicaltrials.gov. But go ahead and search yourself for ivermectin, vitamin D, famotidine, etc.

No surprise here regarding the future of the Fauci if Trump remains Prez-

NYT, 11/2/20

[quote] Mr. Trump spoke well past midnight at the Miami-Opa Locka Executive Airport in Florida at his fifth and final rally of the day. At one point, he began reciting a familiar complaint about the news media’s continued coverage of the virus.

[quote] His grousing led the crowd of his supporters to begin chanting, “Fire Fauci! Fire Fauci!” Mr. Trump listened in silence for a few moments before remarking: “Don’t tell anybody, but let me wait until a little bit after the election. I appreciate the advice.”

ABC News twitter link for video-

John Oliver last night - satirical encapsulation of 45's dumbf*ckery

Lessons in pandemic management competence.

"Yet we shouldn’t ignore the better news from Asia. The strategies pursued by South Korea, Vietnam, China and others do still seem to be paying off. While the total Covid-19 death toll is between 500-700 per million people in France, the U.K., Spain and the U.S., in China and South Korea it is below 10 per million. Cases are a less perfect measure, but there’s a similar observable gap. Wuhan, once the epicenter of Covid-19, is welcoming tourists again.

The perception of an Asian advantage in this pandemic often falls prey to essentialist thinking: That somehow the East is doing things the West could never do, and that it’s largely down to profound differences in values, politics and culture. If China is able to contain Covid-19, it must be because of draconian government policy and the social bonds of Confucianism. If Singapore has 28 deaths, credit must lie with Lee Kuan Yew’s founding legacy of authoritarian pragmatism.

There are likely far less intangible forces at work. If the key to avoiding more lockdowns is finding a way to “live with the virus” — through widespread testing, tracing of contacts and isolating positive cases to slow transmission — Western countries have made structural, not cultural, errors.

Extensive testing was rolled out in Europe after the first wave, but too slowly and too late to avoid delays and bottlenecks. Contact tracers were too few; digital apps were left to wither on the vine. Positive cases didn’t take isolation seriously, because of a lack of enforcement and patchy financial support. These aren’t questions of philosophy, but about implementation of policy. Angela Merkel, Germany’s chancellor, admitted as much on Thursday when she said European Union leaders should have acted sooner. Even the famously organized Germans failed to halt the second wave. "

This week could be a record breaker in terms of worldwide cases and deaths. Today's numbers are masked due to the weekend lag. The next 3 days will reveal the truth. Stay tuned!

[quote] [R489], sounds like you're not from NYC, so why did you travel there in the middle of a pandemic

I’m not R489 but I go into the city. What’s more, I take a bus in sometimes. It’s a private bus & no one is allowed to sit next to each other, which is fine with me. People have been going back & forth. I go in for medical care & for my hair stylist. I wear a mask. So does everyone else. I carry my own hand sanitizer & use it. The dr offices I visited gave me small bottles of pocket hand sanitizers as well. The bus passes out hand wipes.

As far as I’m concerned it’s more dangerous when I’ve gone into Target & found people lingering around reading every fucking ingredient list in the mouthwash aisle & when I had to wait *an hour* in the very crowded pharmacy section of my local CVS for a flu shot. People in the city are concerned & socially distance while being aware of other people around them. The burbs - not so much.

My hair stylist wears a mask. Everyone uses sanitizer. Every other salon seat is empty, so it’s more like 10 ft of space between customers rather than 6 ft. I pick up takeout for my family from the Chinese restaurant across the street, say hello to the owners & return home. There are fewer people on the street, that’s true. The only assholes I’ve noticed, as R489 has pointed out, are cops.

R504, if you really want to be doing the right thing, you should be staying in, not going out and about thinking it's ok because you're wearing a mask.

Troll on, R505

R502, what really went wrong in Europe isn't so much the testing stuff but the fact that it seemed as though the virus had mostly gone away so everyone relaxed. Sure, there were rules and restrictions, but they were quickly forgotten. To start, you were meant to sit at least one table away from others in restaurants, then you were sitting right next to other diners at the next table. People mostly kept to the basics of social distancing, but that's not enough. Cases really started to go up once everyone decided that masks were the answer and they could just carry on as normal as long as they were wearing a mask.

The other problem, I believe, was that politicians and policy-makers believed the crap that the Oxford University team that's supposedly developing a vaccine was spinning about how 100s of millions of doses of a vaccine would be ready by about now so they took their eye off the ball.

The only way to eradicate this thing until a safe and effective vaccine is developed is to have very strict restrictions, for the authorities to pounce on each case, isolate that person and find all the people they've been in contact with, and test and isolate them too, otherwise it's going to keep coming back.

Sure r506, everyone who doesn't share your opinion is a troll.

Many people in the New York City suburbs get specialized medical care/treatment in the city dear R505. It doesn’t make us ethical monsters.

Trump suggests he might fire Fauci after election

'One day more...Another day, another destiny. This neverending road to Calvary...One more day before the storm!...The time is now . The day is here....At the barricades of freedom...When our ranks begin to form..One day to a new beginning. Raise the flag of freedom high. Every man will be a king. Every man will be a king.There's a new world for the winning. There's a new world to be won Do you hear the people sing?...Tomorrow we'll discover what our god in heaven has in store! One more dawn. One more day. One day more!'

What's with Fauci and his incredible shrinking balls ?

What's taking him so long to tell Trump to

🖕 [italic] Take this job and shove it,

I ain't workin' here no more !

The mobile morgues of Texas.

My former boss just posted a Trump 2020 meme on his FB page. He runs a law office that specializes in evictions and they have been closed since March with a huge loss in income. I understand his frustration (and I've been out of work, also, elsewhere) but for fuck's sake, how do people not realize that the reason this has gone on for so long with no end in sight is BECAUSE of Trump? If we would have had anyone else in office (perhaps with the exception of McConnell), we would be in a much better position in terms of COVID. And exactly what does he think Trump is going to do if re-elected? He's had 8 months to do it. We're at our highest peak of infection. I don't understand the complete absence of logical thinking.

R512, actually, it must take a whole lot of balls to work for Trump while he screams at you, mocks you, and pressures you to avoid your true north. Kudos to Fauci for sticking it out and serving the American people.

Corona Bologna .. all it did was cause my hair to fall out.

Looking ahead: call for collaborative action The coronavirus pandemic is far from over. Many countries are already reeling from the effects of the pandemic response as well as trying to cope with additional waves of dangerous infection rates. Governments will have to make difficult decisions that rely on uncertain and changing data regarding the most effective approaches to contain the pandemic. Although the evidence on the adverse consequences of measures to control covid-19 continues to grow,1325262728 there remains a paucity of any such voices in the public and decision making conversation, which seems to convey a dominant narrative of pandemic mitigation at all costs. This is perhaps a reflection of the challenge of the moment, but we must adopt a more nuanced approach to understanding the pros and cons of different approaches

Dr. Deborah L. Birx delivered a stark private warning on Monday, telling White House officials that the pandemic is entering a new and “deadly phase” that demands a more aggressive approach.

The warning — sent in a private memo to White House officials as the nation’s daily coronavirus caseload has broken records and approached 100,000 — amounted to a direct contradiction of President Trump’s repeated false assertions that the pandemic is “rounding the corner.”

“We are entering the most concerning and most deadly phase of this pandemic … leading to increasing mortality,” said the Nov. 2 report from Birx. “This is not about lockdowns — It hasn’t been about lockdowns since March or April. It’s about an aggressive balanced approach that is not being implemented.”

NOW, a warning?

Cellular, or “T-cell,” immunity against Covid-19 is likely to be present within most adults six months after primary infection, a new study says. The study found “robust T-cell responses” to the coronavirus six months after infection.

The study found, however, that “the size of T-cell response differed between individuals, being considerably (50%) higher in people who had experienced symptomatic disease at the time of infection six months previously.”

A little light reading from the New Yorker on the early immune system response and why some people are more vulnerable than others.

Dr.Birx spoke PRIVATELY to Trump officials, she didn’t even try to share with the public. Please do not give her credit for standing up to Trump please.

[quote] The mobile morgues of Texas.

Are the only morgues for me!

Canadian health officials demonstrate how wide coronavirus can spread from a single introduction. One infected person at an indoor sports practice spread the virus to 60 others (to date) over and 18-day period, creating 7 identified outbreaks, and forcing 170 people to self-isolate.

Meanwhile 854 deaths reported in France.

[quote] Using surveillance video, the New York City Sheriff’s Department

Not NYPD, you’ll note

Well, it looks like we can forget about our government finally doing anything to stop the increase of COVID in the US.

If he wins, does this mean it will be illegal to wear a mask? I expect not a mask (except on my partner and me) in my Safeway if he does.

I keep hoping that sooner or later, big business will realize that their profits depend on halting the virus. Just being open isn't enough if no one comes and half the workforce is sick.

If all the corporations with jobs that currently require drug tests of their employees also required regular COVID tests, and got serious about masks, it would help tremendously. We're conditioned in the US that our jobs own us, so people will comply if their employers ask, but never would have complied with whatever rules Biden would put in place.

With nearly 6K deaths already reported today, the 1 day record will most likely fall. So terribly tragic as it did not have to end this way! Hong Kong, New Zealand, China, Taiwan, Singapore and others have got this under control. What did WE do wrong? Time to look in the mirror

Plus 1600 deaths in Spain today! Game over!

Of course, the numbers for Spain are based on "revisions" of past data, yada, yada. We can expect the same shit for other countries in the coming days. What is certain is that THIS econd wave has hit Europe very hard, even harder than the first wave for some. Despite the better treatments and vaccine hopes, people are STILL dying in large numbers. ICU units are filling up. Where cases increase, deaths will follow regardless of the fucking trials, reports and studies that are posted here. Stay alert!

Of course, the numbers for Spain are based on "revisions" of past data, yada, yada. We can expect the same shit for other countries in the coming days. What is certain is that THIS econd wave has hit Europe very hard, even harder than the first wave for some. Despite the better treatments and vaccine hopes, people are STILL dying in large numbers. ICU units are filling up. Where cases increase, deaths will follow regardless of the fucking trials, reports and studies that are posted here. Stay alert!

What is Biden even proposing r529, aside from masks?

And BOOM! Already +8.5K deaths. Sadly, the record will fall tonight as I predicted weeks ago. And we are already at my worst predictions for the year end which I provided months ago. This second wave is truly something else!

R534, you can look at his website to get that answered.

Going into NYC to get my hairs did on Friday. Want to make sure to get it all done before they have to shut the city down again.

That's a waffly wish list that won't really do anything, and some of it looks like it will take time to set up (the U.S. Public Health Jobs Corps to mobilize at least 100,000 Americans across the country) and lots of it is just irrelevant and seems to imagine that the virus is just another policy issue that will at some point get its turn on the agenda.

[quote]Stand up a Pandemic Testing Board like Roosevelt’s War Production Board. It’s how we produced tanks, planes, uniforms, and supplies in record time, and it’s how we can produce and distribute tens of millions of tests.

Aside from the fact that setting up this testing board will take time (and it doesn't sound credible just because he throws the word Roosevelt in), just who is going to produce these tests?

[quote]Invest $25 billion in a vaccine manufacturing and distribution plan that will guarantee it gets to every American, cost-free.

What is the point of this? There are already well over 100 vaccines in development worldwide, many in final trial phases and which could be ready early in the new year. Just where is that $25 billion going to be invested? In one of the US-based companies developing a vaccine? They have enough money for that, that's not the issue. Is some US government-owned pharmaceutical company that hasn't been established yet going to develop a new vaccine?

Why would every American even need to be vaccinated with this imagined vaccine? It's not even clear if the vaccines being developed now will offer full immunity or if they will offer, e.g. 60% immunity, like the flu vaccine does. It's also going to be a mammoth task to vaccinate everyone. The most plausible scenarios are that in a first phase only the vulnerable and health workers will be administered a potential vaccine in spring 2021 and over the coming years the rest of the population may be vaccinated.

Biden's proposals don't say anything aside from "I'm going to make everything available just like that!" and some garbled proposal about giving information about "how to turn the dial up or down relative to the level of risk and degree of viral spread in a community, including when to open or close certain businesses, bars, restaurants, and other spaces; when to open or close schools, and what steps they need to take to make classrooms and facilities safe; appropriate restrictions on size of gatherings; when to issue stay-at-home restrictions." - Even in smaller, very well-organised countries something like this is proving a nightmare, especially logistically - and it requires extremely strict implementation if it's going to work, to a degree that will probably be difficult in the US.

Even though I'm not American I really want Biden to win, but I did look at his proposals on a wide range of issues on his website today and, I'm sorry, but most of them sound like adolescent nonsense, not a serious proposal for government (yes, I know Trump's are probably worse, but Biden's policies offer nothing to attract voters, people are voting for him because he isn't Trump).

[quote]That's a waffly wish list that won't really do anything, and some of it looks like it will take time to set up (the U.S. Public Health Jobs Corps to mobilize at least 100,000 Americans across the country) and lots of it is just irrelevant and seems to imagine that the virus is just another policy issue that will at some point get its turn on the agenda.

What on earth did you expect? A magic wand? There's little that is "waffly" about it and all of it is needed. We do need to test more; we do need to fix our PPE problem, both short-term and long-term; we do need better, evidence-based, and consistent guidance; we do need more resources for schools, businesses, and families; we do need money and a plan for distributing a vaccine; we do need to pay attention to the inequities in both the infection and deaths from the virus; we do need to rebuild the infrastructure that Trump tore down; and we do need to wear our fucking masks.

[quote]What is the point of this? There are already well over 100 vaccines in development worldwide, many in final trial phases and which could be ready early in the new year. Just where is that $25 billion going to be invested?

Do you really think that the vaccine just magically appears everywhere and elves magically give us our shots? We need the $25 billion for the storage, transportation, and distribution of the vaccines, some of which require costly temperature-controlled storage to guarantee the stability of the vaccine.

[quote]Why would every American even need to be vaccinated with this imagined vaccine?

None of these vaccines are "imagined" and we need to be vaccinated if we are to return life to something closer to normal. This isn't rocket science.

[quote]It's also going to be a mammoth task to vaccinate everyone.

Hence, the need for $25 billion. You're answering your own question. I'm sorry but yours was a really uneducated response.

[quote] It's also going to be a mammoth task to vaccinate everyone.

Been there, done that. Totally doable

And to no surprise the world record for deaths has been completely shattered!!! Already more than 9.4K deaths today with several hours to go!

Sorry if I missed this, but when do we expect more info from Arizona?

Oops wrong thread

R539, vaccinating everyone isn't a question of money, it's a question of logistics and whether it's feasible/necessary to vaccinate everyone. The US government also does not need to start trying to develop its own vaccine.

Even the Trump administration has spent lots of money trying to secure vaccines (made by established companies, not a new US government vaccine). Money is not the issue, it's practicalities.

R539, vaccinating everyone isn't a question of money, it's a question of logistics and whether it's feasible/necessary to vaccinate everyone. The US government also does not need to start trying to develop its own vaccine.

Even the Trump administration has spent lots of money trying to secure vaccines (made by established companies, not a new US government vaccine). Money is not the issue, it's practicalities.

R539, here's an example of just some of the logistical problems of a national vaccination programme - and, don't forget, vaccination cannot be mandatory in a democratic society and even in most authoritarian ones today.

Hey R544 I am sure it is just an honest mistake of an assumption based upon misconceptions about how capitalism works. But every SARS-CoV-2 vaccine candidate in the United States in phase III testing now has taken BARDA (federal) money for development except for the Pfizer vaccine. And even Pfizer is going to take BARDA money for distribution.

Those -80 freezer don't just buy themselves.

Here's a publicly available article, because no one should trust information provided by random strangers on the internet.

[bold]Coronavirus updates: United States tops 100,000 new virus cases in a day for first time[/bold]

The United States reported more than 100,000 new coronavirus cases on Wednesday, according to data tracked by The Washington Post. Seventeen states — including Kansas, Tennessee, Virginia, Oklahoma, Montana, Iowa, North Dakota, South Dakota, Ohio, Nebraska, Minnesota, Indiana and West Virginia — on Wednesday reported record numbers of patients hospitalized with covid-19, the disease caused by the virus.

Nationwide, more than 9,445,000 coronavirus cases and more than 232,500 covid-19 fatalities have been logged since February.

more at link

And FWIW just in case anyone is interested in the interplay between US government funding and commercial drug development, the Bayh-Dole act is a great piece of legislation and just celebrated its 40th Birthday. Let's hear it for Bob and Evan.

Vaccinations blah, blah ,blah. Seriously people WAKE the fuck up!!! Nothing will save you short of common sense! Stay the fuck away from people and wash your hands!!!

Trump & Biden both need 'the green needle'. Useless out of touch old straight men.

Over 100,000 cases today

Over 1000 deaths

150 deaths in Texas alone

Over 100,000 cases today

Over 1000 deaths

150 deaths in Texas alone

[quote]vaccinating everyone isn't a question of money, it's a question of logistics

Which requires money, i.e., the $25 billion that Biden has planned and that various experts have agreed is needed for manufacturing, storage, transportation, and delivery.

[quote]and whether it's feasible/necessary to vaccinate everyone.

Yes to both, of course. Yes, it's necessary and yes, it's feasible, at least to get to the point where we finally do develop that "herd immunity" Holy Grail. That doesn't require everyone. It just requires enough to get an infection rate below 1.

[quote]The US government also does not need to start trying to develop its own vaccine.

Which is why nobody is suggesting that we do. Seriously, did you even bother to read Biden's proposals? Or my R539 comment?

[quote]R539, here's an example of just some of the logistical problems of a national vaccination programme

That article doesn't talk about "logistical problems." It talks about social problems and vaccine limitations, which are not the same.

[quote]and, don't forget, vaccination cannot be mandatory in a democratic society

That depends. Federal and local governments, corporations, and schools can all choose to make a vaccination mandatory for their workers and students. And as the impacts of the latest outbreak continue to reverberate and grow, and with Biden in charge instead of Trump (assuming that the election results play out as they seem to be), I think you're going to find a much greater trust in, and desire to get, a vaccination next year. People want their lives to return to normal and the only way that will happen is with a vaccine.

ESPN laying off 300 employees in huge pandemic-related cuts

[quote]Over 100,000 cases today. Over 1000 deaths.

Odd, Trump said it would just disappear on November 4.

National Geographic covers "Why Some People Are Superspreaders ..."

I just had a negative test, meaning I don’t have it at the moment, only.

I never thought I might have to worry about not being able to do simple things, but I’ve been reading that COVID can have secondary effects.

Yesterday a record number of deaths and today we are heading towards a record number of cases based on the numbers so far. People are carrying on like this is over. Sadly, these next few weeks and months are going to be off the charts!

At this point, people know what they need to do to prevent the spread. Yes, there are things the government can and should do differently. But the most significant factor in the here and now is people following the health guidelines. That will decide whether we collectively can turn this around or have a health apocalypse this winter. Sadly, society has devolved into a "i'm special, look at me!!!!" state where far too many people don't take responsibility for their actions and don't give a shit about anything but themselves, their rights, and how they look in Instagram.

R561, but a lot of states don't have mask orders or many guidelines at all, because the GOP thinks that's "socialism"

You can't complain about people not following guidelines when there aren't any guidelines to follow

R562 everyone knows what the health guidelines are....wear masks, wash your hands, don't gather in groups, maintain distance. People know that will help prevent the spread. People need to grow up and not wait for the government to tell them what to do when all the guidelines from public health officials is very clear. The story has not changed much since March. But too many people have the attitude of they can do whatever they want because "the government" didn't tell them not to. Bullshit.

Llamas will save us all. Bow down to your fluffy saviors!

Yes R565! I posted an article about Llamas way back in one of the early Freakout threads (probably around thread 3 or 4 or the 50 thread series.....it was 50, right?)

R566 It was 50, you prescient llama-whisperer!

[quote] [R539], here's an example of just some of the logistical problems of a national vaccination programme

Honey, we have a national vaccine program every year. It’s called the flu vaccine. It works fine, except for assholes who refuse to get it.

Virus mutating in minks in Denmark which can then be passed back to humans and fuck up potential vaccines.

Has anyone checked on Mink Stole?

NYT's Mike Baker.

There were 121,200 new coronavirus cases identified in the U.S. yesterday.

That's more than Japan has found over the course of the entire epidemic.

The spread of the coronavirus is so out of control that 1 out of every 100 people in the United States has now tested positive for the virus in *just the past two months*

Covid-19 hospitalizations are following infection numbers upward and have now reached more than 53,000. That's up 77% from a month ago.

Deaths have increased 22 percent over the past two weeks.

It's unclear where we are headed on that front. When case numbers started rising back in mid-June, hospitalizations didn't start rising until about a week later and deaths started rising 2 weeks after that.

I'm fine, r570, I send my love.

Check out the horrible pictures of minks in cages at the article in R569 then everyone come back and complain about those abhorrent Chinese wet markets.

Humans suck.

"A nasal spray that blocks the absorption of the SARS-CoV-2 virus has completely protected ferrets it was tested on, according to a small study released on Thursday by an international team of scientists. The study, which was limited to animals ... has not yet been peer-reviewed...."

Give the nasal spray made by llamas to some ferrets and then cure the Danish minks with it!

Coronavirus Megathread: We Bought A Zoo edition

(Ignore me, I'm loopy from election anxiety.)

yes, I walked past a city MD where they do the testing and the line was so long...all day long!

The University of Huddersfield's Archaeogenetics Research Group has mapped out the dispersal of the SARS-CoV-2 coronavirus. The study confirms that the virus originated in China and most likely jumped into humans from horseshoe bats.

But it is Europe, not China, which has been the main source for spreading the disease around the world. Travel restrictions across Britain and Europe seem to have been too little and too late, and most of the spread of the virus to America and other parts of the world was via Europe, not directly from China.

Over 10M reported cases now in the US. For sure, the true number is much higher due to insufficient testing.

Over 10M reported cases now in the US. For sure, the true number is much higher due to insufficient testing.

Over 10M reported cases now in the US. For sure, the true number is much higher due to insufficient testing.

NYT: More Europeans are hospitalized with Covid-19 now than during the spring’s worst days, new data for 21 countries shows. The crisis is threatening to overwhelm stretched hospitals and exhausted medical workers.

If you are in the Sarasota FL area, there is rapid testing (drive through) in Sarasota and Palmetto, Free. I got results back last week in 29 minutes via text/email. Hope the test was valid!

Cough droplets can travel beyond six feet, new simulation study suggests

From CNN's Jacqueline Howard

A new simulation study suggests that a person coughing can disperse droplets well beyond six feet, and that anyone shorter than the person coughing -- such as children -- might be at a greater risk of encountering the downward trajectory of those cough droplets.

During the coronavirus pandemic, the dispersion of cough droplets has become of great interest among scientists. The new study, published on Tuesday in the journal Physics of Fluids, evaluates the risk of spreading the virus through cough droplets in the air under different tropical outdoor environments.

"Young children may be at greater risk compared to adults based on the typical downward cough trajectory. Teenagers and short adults are advised to maintain a social distance greater than 2 m from taller persons," the researcher wrote in the study. "Surgical masks are known to be effective at trapping large droplets and therefore recommended for use as necessary."

The researchers -- from Singapore's Agency of Science, Technology and Research -- used numerical models to simulate the trajectory of droplets expelled by a person who suddenly coughs outdoors with someone listening nearby.

The researchers ran the simulation with different droplet sizes, air temperatures, relative humidity, wind speed and varying distances between the cougher and the listener.

Thanks r547 for providing further evidence for what I said - that 100s of billions of dollars have already been put into developing vaccines globally and even the Trump administration has pumped billions into this. Trump was even trying to buy a German biotech company. Many vaccines are now coming to the end of their trial phases and are almost ready to seek emergency approval and licensing. So, there's really no need at all for Biden to promise that he'll develop a new vaccine from scratch and don't forget even Trump has been making all sorts of promises about securing vaccines for the American people.

The problem isn't that vaccine development needs money, it's approving of a safe vaccine and then the extremely complicated logistics of a programme to administer the vaccine. I'm not pro-Trump in any way and really hope Biden wins, but coming from Europe I can tell you that dealing with this vaccine is a very complicated task for any political leader. Biden is setting himself up to fail if he thinks all he needs to do is tell everyone to wear masks, get thousands of community workers onto the streets, recommend to states that they have an occasional lockdown or develop a vaccine which everyone will immediately get once its ready. It's ok though, once Biden gets into the White House another 2.5 months will have passed and a vaccine might have been approved by then. Let's see how he deals with the mammoth task of getting people vaccinated. It won't be easy.

If you want to eradicate the coronavirus, you need to lock down completely until every case has been found and isolated and no new cases are recorded.

Keep on Ronin,' North Dakota! Latest daily new infection rate (per 100K population): 174.

Maryland (on the rise): 17.

I feel a little differently R584. The way I see it, if it is anywhere in the world, it is everywhere in the world two months after travel resumes. And I want to go back to being able to travel and I just can't imagine that we are going to get the whole world to lock down for the same six weeks to really quash this. (Assuming of course that it can't survive on a bag of frozen veggies.)

I am all for the vaccines currently in development, and I will be taking one as soon as I am able, which should be relatively early based on my job. However, none of them stop infection or even illness. They only lessen severity of illness, and not necessarily in all parts of the body. They are all expensive to manufacture, require two shots within a 3-4 week window to work and some require -80 freezers to store. We need to get a vaccine candidate that is less expensive to manufacture and easier to transport and store through clinical testing if we want to vaccinate in poorer countries. If it also happens to be more effective and/or one shot that'd be a bonus. That requires additional federal intervention and funding, since there are many candidates vying for a limited pot of funding and study participants that are close to first in human trials.

That said I respect your comments and you are absolutely right that this in a difficult and extremely complicated situation.

Elder Lez, what are your thoughts on the growing movements around the globe protesting lockdowns? Huge one in Berlin today.

Protesting lockdowns is complete bullshit. The Western world has never been fully locked down since this whole thing started, and most areas have been doing as they please for eight months. Lock the shit down tighter than a drum for two months and get rid of this already. Stop half assing it, world!

THE CAVALRY'S A-COMIN!!

Truly Sylvia.

And our new president will actually listen to what they have to say.

Herein we demonstrate that the immunodominant SARS-CoV-2 spike (S) receptor binding motif (RBM) is the most divergent region of S, and provide epidemiological, clinical, and molecular characterization of a prevalent RBM variant, N439K. We demonstrate that N439K S protein has enhanced binding affinity to the hACE2 receptor, and that N439K virus has similar clinical outcomes and in vitro replication fitness as compared to wild-type. We observed that the N439K mutation resulted in immune escape from a panel of neutralizing monoclonal antibodies, including one in clinical trials, as well as from polyclonal sera from a sizeable fraction of persons recovered from infection. Immune evasion mutations that maintain virulence and fitness such as N439K can emerge within SARS-CoV-2 S, highlighting the need for ongoing molecular surveillance to guide development and usage of vaccines and therapeutics.“

Concerning for vaccines/therapeutics. Different mutation than the one in Danish minks.

I started thread #3 since this one is almost spent. And then I realized that Sylvia usually does it so I hope I didn't step on toes.

R587 satanic mammon and thanatos worshippers

Or just really stupid people.

Lockdowns wouldn’t be so awful if societies protected the economically vulnerable

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