Are these people for real?
CNBC: Biden defines $400,000 a year as 'wealthy.' In big cities, it only makes you upper middle class
|by Anonymous||reply 246||10/18/2020|
Nah. It’s wealthy even in NY or SF.
|by Anonymous||reply 1||10/07/2020|
It is wealthy.
|by Anonymous||reply 2||10/07/2020|
It's ok Blas /OP, we can't expect you to know what wealth is.
|by Anonymous||reply 3||10/07/2020|
Was he talking about POTUS's salary?
|by Anonymous||reply 4||10/07/2020|
|by Anonymous||reply 5||10/07/2020|
Biden would be correct. It's not your buying power necessarily or your standard of living that's involved here. It's quite a rare set of Americans (regardless where you may live) who are earning near half a million annually. The word "Wealthy" does NOT only apply to some mythological "Upper Class" individuals.
The folks Biden is referring to probably have other passive income streams as well. You're fooling yourself if you believe people in this income bracket don't have huge stock portfolios generating income. Many purchase annuities as well, though they may not give the greatest return, they're capable of providing huge tax breaks. People in these tax brackets also have a huge number of deductions, loopholes, and legal offsets that others making less lack.
You're delusional if you don't consider such individuals wealthy. Perhaps you need to rethink your own working definition of wealth.
|by Anonymous||reply 6||10/07/2020|
And this kind of shit is why Biden will win.
|by Anonymous||reply 7||10/07/2020|
Such an obvious troll post. Yes OP, $400,000 a year is wealthy by any American definition.
|by Anonymous||reply 8||10/07/2020|
I just love these pity the millionaires and billionaires threads. Did OP even read the article? This is only 1.8% of earners in the US. You're telling me that those earning between $400-700K cannot afford to cough up just one percent above the $400K mark? That's what the proposed increase amounts to.
If they cannot afford the tax burden, they need to curtail their lifestyles, or "change lodgings"! Rubbish they're pinched.
|by Anonymous||reply 9||10/07/2020|
R7 Go suck Trump's anus. I hope you encounter some good COVID laden dingleberries to snack on whilst your down there.
There has never been such a disparity in income, and savings in the entire history of the US, as there exists today. This is untenable for the future. The whole social order and contract depends upon rich people paying their fair share. Greed and unbridled capitalism is what shall be the final downfall of the US If things are not made more equitable for all.
|by Anonymous||reply 10||10/07/2020|
Y'all can't read OP's tone at all, can you? He's obviously being critical of CNBC and not Biden.
|by Anonymous||reply 11||10/07/2020|
An annual salary of $400,000 a year is middle class in the same way that paying $750 a year in taxes as a millionaire is fair.
|by Anonymous||reply 12||10/07/2020|
It would be nice if some sort of equity happened in my lifetime. I'm middle class.
|by Anonymous||reply 13||10/07/2020|
Nobody "feels" rich, because humans are hardwired to always want more, bigger, better. Nonetheless, those who have income of more than $400,000 per year in the US are in the 99th percentile, meaning they make more money in a year than 99% of Americans. If that isn't "wealthy," what is?
|by Anonymous||reply 14||10/07/2020|
I hope Biden wins. I'm voting for Biden. And this article is one of the reasons why. God, you just love to be outraged don't you?
|by Anonymous||reply 15||10/07/2020|
R7 - I just took your post as a clever joke directed at the "this is why Trump will win" troll! LOL.
|by Anonymous||reply 16||10/07/2020|
For once, I'd like to hear from Darfur Orphan.
|by Anonymous||reply 17||10/07/2020|
R11, some of us haven't slept-slept in a week.
|by Anonymous||reply 18||10/07/2020|
These poor people, barely scraping by in their $2 million home and with their three vacations each year (but they're only "staycations" and road trips) and with their $60,000 each year in private school and nanny expenses. My heart bleeds for them! How dare the government want their taxes increased by less than 1%?!?
|by Anonymous||reply 19||10/07/2020|
OP needs to learn to write more effectively so as to avoid such confusion then R11/R18. It isn't immediately or completely clear whom he believes the crazy people are.
|by Anonymous||reply 20||10/07/2020|
R19 only 1% above 400K... until 700K, then hopefully higher taxes shall apply going up for regular earned income.
|by Anonymous||reply 21||10/07/2020|
|by Anonymous||reply 22||10/07/2020|
Anyth8ng over 250k is not middle class anywhere, if you’re living in SF or NY on 250k, you might not be living large but you’re still living a lifestyle in a city that caters to the wealthy that regular working people could never afford,
|by Anonymous||reply 23||10/07/2020|
That certainly isn't thrifty living by any stretch of one's imagination, R22.
|by Anonymous||reply 24||10/07/2020|
OP? That's what you get for living in NYC.
|by Anonymous||reply 25||10/07/2020|
Considering their expenses @ R22, I find it next to impossible that these people MUST spend close to 40K per year on child care. It's laughable. Actual middle class people manage to find options which are by far cheaper. Nowadays these mums require so much, it's ridiculous. I have a few friends with these nannies. I recall a time where there were competent, trustworthy members of the community capable of watching children for less than career wages.
Sometimes this was a lady who didn't work outside the home, and many children met up at her home after school, sometimes it was a young girl in her teens. Middle class people often rely on their parents, friends, and siblings for child care, and their families rarely are paid.
$26K per child for preschool is a bit "funny" to me as well. I have a friend paying $1200 a month, per child at a Montessori school for her young children, that she can't seem to shut up about. There's nothing wrong with these choices IF one can afford them, but don't fucking cry poor and whinge about it. It's so undignified no matter what one's poor choices are. This cannot be used as a viable excuse for not being able to meet your tax liabilities. It's a fucking joke. No one smart has a $4,200 car payment either. These types are entitled dumbkopfs without any shame.
|by Anonymous||reply 26||10/07/2020|
The breakdown at R22 is hilarious if intended to support the argument that they are middle class. The 401k contributions alone put them into the economic stratosphere in relation to actual middle class people, who often can’t afford retirement even after cutting back their meager lifestyle.
|by Anonymous||reply 27||10/07/2020|
You may not be a millionaire per se in NYC but you are very well off.
|by Anonymous||reply 28||10/07/2020|
I'm glad you agree R27. Other noteworthy things are $158 per month for "personal care items", and $37K for Daycare. I'm a bit confused, I thought the children matriculated at the fancy preschool for that reason. This begins to read like a Trump expense sheet, the more one scrutinizes it. Carrying a combined total of $4M in life insurance policies certainly isn't middle class either.
|by Anonymous||reply 29||10/07/2020|
$400,000’s approaching top 1% territory
|by Anonymous||reply 30||10/07/2020|
Uncle Joe can say any shit and it won't matter to me. Uncle Joe could say OP's mother is a super-gonorrhea cumwhore and I still think of him as a polite person.
So that you know, fat, ugly troll OP.
|by Anonymous||reply 31||10/07/2020|
the wealthy, included the truly wealthy like Jeff Bezos want to pay 750 dollars in taxes per year.
A barista in Starbucks pays more in taxes than the "smart" POTUS who pays 750 dollars in taxes annually.
|by Anonymous||reply 32||10/07/2020|
And how does the president define $400,000?
|by Anonymous||reply 33||10/07/2020|
POTUS doesnt have 400,000 to his name, he's heavily in debt.
|by Anonymous||reply 34||10/07/2020|
R34 Or Drumpf is giving all his money to Ivanka, with all her "consulting fees" I'd like to see a breakdown of her declared $82M from last year.
|by Anonymous||reply 35||10/07/2020|
As many in my circle have been pointing out, the "spreadsheet" that CNBC came up with for the prototypical family is rigged.
They are living in a $2MM house and they cannot afford a two million dollar house, hence the rest of the budget is off.
Even in the wealthiest suburbs of NYC there are plenty of houses for around $1MM. Those houses may not be the mansion of your dreams but they will be much nicer than what 99% of Americans live in and if you need to redo the kitchen and bathrooms at some point, so be it.
Or just live in a town that isn't Greenwich or Palo Alto.
CNBC has it so that the family is paying so much for housing they can't even go on a proper vacation (they give them two "staycations" and a small away vacation.
All that said, $400K in NY/SF/LA/DC is the high end of upper middle class. There are so many people making ten times that amount in those regions, people who can easily afford a $2MM house, and they are the "wealthy" - really the 1% vs the 0.1%
|by Anonymous||reply 36||10/07/2020|
It is wealthy.
|by Anonymous||reply 37||10/07/2020|
|by Anonymous||reply 38||10/07/2020|
R36 You're quite right. My friend, and her partner just bought a beautiful old home in Chappaqua for $842K, with nice grounds, and it looks like a mansion compared to what most middle class Americans live in. With two children, this couple could even find something suitable for $760-800K.
|by Anonymous||reply 39||10/07/2020|
Anyone who can't afford AT LEAST $77,000 a year toward personal hair care is, by definition, a loser.
|by Anonymous||reply 40||10/07/2020|
My friend has a large ranch just outside of a major city in California. She built a huge barn for her horses. It cost more than my house.
They take European vacations, their children attended private schools and had any sort of private lesson they wanted.
They own their own hobby plane.
When their son went to college, it was constant strife about the cost of tuition.
Look, if your lifestyle affords you vacations, new cars every 2 years, a $200k hobby barn, and other luxuries, then you are not strapped for cash.
Maybe you don't get to spend it on all the luxuries you normally would, but you are not suffering.
The 1% need a kick in the cooter.
|by Anonymous||reply 41||10/07/2020|
I'm trying to remember a time where I wasn't worried about money and stability. A time before over 20% of my income went to medical bills.
My father told me the best financial set up is 2 married gay men. No children, 2 male incomes.
It was supposed to be better than this.
|by Anonymous||reply 42||10/07/2020|
Was that your father expressing regrets, r42?
|by Anonymous||reply 43||10/07/2020|
"While ZipRecruiter is seeing annual salaries as high as $148,000 and as low as $21,500, the majority of salaries within the National jobs category currently range between $44,500 (25th percentile) to $97,000 (75th percentile) across the United States. The average pay range for a National job varies modestly (up to $52,500), which suggests there may be fewer opportunities for advancement based on skill level, but increased pay based on location and years of experience is still possible."
In other words OP, $400K a year is wealthy.
Consequently, "these people" as you say are for real.
People who criticize Biden on this issue are clearly wealthy themselves and are nervous about having to pay more taxes if Biden becomes president and the Senate turns Democratic.
|by Anonymous||reply 44||10/07/2020|
Desperate for a new angle, I see, OP. Find another one. This doesn't work.
|by Anonymous||reply 45||10/07/2020|
Is the $400,000 a year cut-off per couple or per individual? It makes a big difference.
|by Anonymous||reply 46||10/07/2020|
The important thing is that most people in the suburbs and swing states will agree with him.
|by Anonymous||reply 47||10/07/2020|
I live in NYC and earn enough to have my taxes raised. I don’t take any deductions other than the standard deduction. Between income taxes and property taxes, I’m probably working more than half of the year for the government. Paying even more seems unfair. I don’t feel rich at all, but I do enjoy my life.
I know people earning much less and much more than I do who cheat the system and do not pay their fair share of taxes. I’d much rather see loopholes closed instead of raising the percentage. Honest people will just get screwed more while cheaters won’t pay more.
|by Anonymous||reply 48||10/07/2020|
Biden is coming after my money!!
|by Anonymous||reply 49||10/07/2020|
Look. That number is designed to appeal to a demographic he needs right now. The reality is that when he, as President, all he can do is propose. OK? COngress will decide. They will write legislation and then there will be negotiations, and the House will have a bill, the Senate will have a bill, and then a joint committee of Congress will compromise and come up with something both sides can agree on and he, as PResident will be part of those negotiations and eventually we will get tax legislation signed into Law. What is important, is the basics:We are going to restore the cuts that were so irresponsibly taken by the wealthiest, and we are going to get tax relief to people who need it. Don't get distracted by a number that will be meaningless.
|by Anonymous||reply 50||10/07/2020|
Violins for half-millionaires
|by Anonymous||reply 51||10/07/2020|
Only a tiny percentage of Americans make $400k a year. Tax filers earning $400,000 a year fall somewhere between the 98th and 99th percentile, according to 2011 tax data from the Tax Policy Center, a nonpartisan tax research group.
|by Anonymous||reply 52||10/07/2020|
But how many of us make a lot less than $400,000. I make 1/10 of that.
|by Anonymous||reply 53||10/07/2020|
I grew up in a household that from roughly 2000 until 2010 had an gross adjusted income of $300k to $350k (roughly $400k in today’s dollars), and I can tell you that I did not feel rich at all. Upper middle class sure, but definitely not rich in Texas.
I make a fourth of that now, low six figures, and feel positively middle class here in Austin. No way is $100k-$150k upper middle class. It’s middle class.
|by Anonymous||reply 54||10/07/2020|
Another hot take by Black Millennial! Thanks for sharing.
|by Anonymous||reply 55||10/07/2020|
These articles by the finance reporters are always ridiculous in their presumptions - and are usually based on their rarified world of living in NYC. These same investment reporters are also the ones saying that 22 year olds should be maxing out their 401k contributions, not realizing that people are living on margins and can't afford to do that.
The same reporters say you should have $1 million saved by the time you are 40. All of these articles assume that it's just bad budgeting and spending as to the reasons why people aren't rich - when it is actually the student loans, cost of child and elderly care, cost of universities, cost of housing that is untenable.
Oh yeah? Bad budgeting is exactly what is shown in this article. They double-up childcare and pre-school expenses - how can 2 kids be in both programs all day? And once kids are in school, these childcare costs go down dramatically.
There's also no reason to spend $2000 a month on food (with presumably 2 children under 5). And there's no reason to live in a $1.6 million house. Or to save up $162,000 (actually $225,000 adjusted for interest and appreciation) for each child's college expenses.
You can raise 2 children on $21,000 a month after taxes - extremely comfortably. They rigged the expenses with items that are just abnormal and only the elite could ever spend.
It is wealthy by any standard. Fuck these articles - I hope the author and the editors get a lot of negative complaints about this. Ridiculous and insulting at the same time.
If this 'couple' spends like this, they should be fired from their jobs for incompetency.
|by Anonymous||reply 56||10/07/2020|
Wow, I didn’t realize that my sister and her husband are in the top 2% of earners in the United States.
Now I don’t feel so bad about my sister contributing to our Mom’s retirement - while I provide the bulk of logistical and local support since I live closer (still a seven hour drive) and go visit our mother much more often, I have not been contributing any money.
|by Anonymous||reply 57||10/07/2020|
My dad always said I have champagne taste on a beer budget. Income just over 100k.
|by Anonymous||reply 58||10/07/2020|
R54 You no doubt feel middle class, but if you earn $100,000, then nationally you are in the 80th percentile. That isn't the middle, though it could be argued that it's upper-middle. You earn more than 80%+ of Americans.
|by Anonymous||reply 59||10/07/2020|
I wish I earned $400k, that’s a lot. Without kids you could live really well on that.
|by Anonymous||reply 60||10/07/2020|
A household earning $400,000 is in in the top 2%.
|by Anonymous||reply 61||10/07/2020|
Let's break down some of the absurdities in this 'monthly budget':
1) Daycare $3100/month, Pre-School $2200/month. Which is it? You have a daycare person sitting at home doing nothing while the kids are in pre-school from 8:15-5pm?
2) Mortgage on 1.6 million. You can get an absolutely beautiful home (considered elite) in almost any city listed (albeit suburbs for NYC, SF) for that amount. They could get a great home for $1 million.
3) No 'middle class' person can afford to save $18,000 a year after taxes for college.
4) $2000 a month for groceries is insane for 2 adults and 2 small kids (who, presumably eat 2 meals a day at childcare or pre-school). This is wealthy behavior - it is nowhere near 'normal'.
5) 3 weeks of vacation a year at $7,200, including 2 staycations. That means 1 away vacation a year at $7,200? Where the fuck are they staying that they are spending $1000 a day? This is wealthy and not middle class.
6) $3,600 a year on entertainment (Netflix, museums, zoo, weekend getaways). Netflix is negligible. How many museums are you going to with two toddlers? And weekend getaways - those don't count as vacations? Absurd. NOT middle-class.
7) $3000 a year in charity. Middle class people don't have that much left over for charity.
Give me their budget, and I can slash $10,000 out of it - easily. Here's the point though - they act like it's going to be an insane increase for those at $400k. NO - just the upper portion of your income will be taxed at a higher amount. So if they make $450k, then $50k will be taxed slightly higher. It is those who make $2 million that will see the most increase. But they won't even feel it because that's a massive amount of money each year.
And you CHOOSE to live in the most expensive cities AND to have 2 kids. That's all on you buddy. Living in the most expensive cities are hard for SINGLE people.
God I hate this article.
|by Anonymous||reply 62||10/07/2020|
R43, that was my father looking for silver linings.
|by Anonymous||reply 63||10/07/2020|
R62 here - still pissed off - and let me add, they presume by this couple being able to afford to save $225,000 per kid to send them to college that this is middle-class behavior?
Middle class people are NOT sending their kids to private universities and easily swallowing the full cost each year. Only wealthy people can afford to do that.
|by Anonymous||reply 64||10/07/2020|
They can't pay off the debt increasing taxes over those making over a million dollars.
|by Anonymous||reply 65||10/07/2020|
This is the best the oligarchy can throw at him?
|by Anonymous||reply 66||10/07/2020|
I know, r63, I was just joshing.
|by Anonymous||reply 67||10/07/2020|
If you think a surgeon making 389,000 dollars/year is just "middle class", you are certifiably insane. That is wealthy.
|by Anonymous||reply 68||10/07/2020|
[quote] Such an obvious troll post. Yes OP, $400,000 a year is wealthy by any American definition.
Idiot(s), I’m pointing out that the article is ridiculous.
|by Anonymous||reply 69||10/07/2020|
Hey OP you've learned your lesson.
Sarcasm and irony are not DL's strong points. If you don't write your literal meaning, you'll get literal idiots misunderstanding your intentions.
|by Anonymous||reply 70||10/07/2020|
Anyone that says someone making 400 grand a year is not wealthy is a fucking asshole.
|by Anonymous||reply 71||10/07/2020|
Here's what many DLers don't understand because you were raised at a time when there was a middle class. There is no middle class anymore. There's the top 20% and there's everyone else. (Many of you seem to think it goes from "middle class" to "rich")
* Families in the top 20% live inside a bubble. I know, I was raised inside that bubble.
* It is expensive to live inside the bubble and people on the lower end of it--say, making $250K/year in NYC or SF are spending every penny to keep up.
* Even in high cost cities, someone making $400K will not feel a whole lot of pain. They may feel like the number is arbitrary, that $500K or $600K would have been more fair, but still, they will not feel pain.
* It's easy for a two-earner couple to hit that amount-- two professional jobs in the $200K range
* The people making $400K/year are often in social situations with people making $4MM/year and thus do not feel rich at all, but most get that they make more than 98% of the population.
* As I noted upthread, the CNBC "budget" is designed to prove a point, not to be realistic. My mother is feeding six of us, all adults, and paying Hamptons grocery delivery prices. She said she spends around $1200/month... and she has a tendency or over order.
* Even at $1.6MM they can't afford that house and should have bought a much cheaper one.
|by Anonymous||reply 72||10/07/2020|
R65 - it's only one part of the plan. The debt we're in is because of the Republicans. There are many other tax loopholes to take care of. However, income disparity has gone too far.
|by Anonymous||reply 73||10/07/2020|
R72 - this isn't real case scenarios - 'they can't afford that house' - no, it's a complete hypothetical to show that $400k is middle class.
What they did is they worked backwards from the presumption that $400k was UMC and fixed the budget to make it look like that.
It's completely dishonest reporting. And it's used to disparage Biden's tax plan somehow.
Everything you state is true - but I don't see how that adds to the article. It was a disingenuous load of hot garbage.
|by Anonymous||reply 74||10/07/2020|
We are in agreement R74-- that was the point I was making, that CNBC took the income and created a false scenario that made it seem as if a family on that income would be spending every penny. They thus inflated many costs, like housing and food, to levels far beyond what they would be in the real world in order to prove their point.
I could make a similar chart to show that the family was saving $100K/year
|by Anonymous||reply 75||10/07/2020|
I make 250K a year - I would consider myself comfortable - my husband does not work and we have two kids. Both cars are paid off, no cc debt and we have about 200K in liquid savings for emergencies. My 401K is at 1 million and I have 25 years to retirement. I would not consider myself wealthy - upper-middle maybe.
|by Anonymous||reply 76||10/07/2020|
R76 - and you would not be part of Biden's tax increase. How would you feel if you had another $12,500 gross coming in each month? More than comfortable?
Even with that, you'd be at the minimum where you'd see taxes increasing under Biden's plan.
|by Anonymous||reply 77||10/07/2020|
But you are, Blanche. You are wealthy regardless how you "feel"
|by Anonymous||reply 78||10/07/2020|
Here's what this 'source' - FinancialSamurai Sam - says about how much you should have saved in your 401k by age.
"Here is my 401k savings guide by age, depending on when you started working and contributing and investment returns.
At age 30 you should have saved between $100,000 – $300,000
At age 40 you should have saved between $250,000 – $1,000,000
At age 50 you should have saved between $600,000 – $2,250,000
At age 60 you should have saved between $1,000,000 – $5,000,000"
This former finance douchebag thinks 30 year olds should, on average, have $200k saved in JUST THEIR 401K by 30. That's not including home ownership or student loans, etc.
He bases this on everyone maxing out $19,500 per year on 401ks. Avg salary for US workers between 25 and 34 is $47,736. Apparently, people at age 30 should have no problem living on $1764 a month after 401k contributions and taxes. And no student loans please - that's for the poors.
How many of you hit these target averages?
|by Anonymous||reply 79||10/07/2020|
Oh, those silly millennials and their "feelings."
A household - not even an individual - earning in the "low six figures" is in the top 25% of households nationally. A single person earning that amount is *definitely* upper-income.
If that millennial feels "middle-class," maybe it's because they've chosen to live in a high-cost area and/or they spend too much money on cars, travel (pre- or maybe even post-COVID), clothes, etc.
|by Anonymous||reply 80||10/07/2020|
[quote] Only a tiny percentage of Americans make $400k a year.
Except on Datalounge.
|by Anonymous||reply 81||10/07/2020|
[quote] R76 - and you would not be part of Biden's tax increase.
You know that for sure, R77? Most commentators assume the $400,000 applies to couples. If R75 is a single filer it's uncertain.
|by Anonymous||reply 82||10/07/2020|
R82 - apparently, R76 (not r75) is a couple with 2 kids as he stated. Why he would file as a single filer under those circumstances?
Biden's just returning the levels to pre-Trump. If it's $250,000 for singles, then he's still at the minimum starting level and would only see a small increase.
|by Anonymous||reply 83||10/07/2020|
R76 you may not "feel" wealthy but that's because you're a spoiled creep whose more than adequate wealthy doesn't sooth your insecurities. You're the type who'll be voting republican in a few years because "I only have five million dollars and the democrats want to raise taxes to help the poor, the bastards."
|by Anonymous||reply 84||10/07/2020|
[quote]I would not consider myself wealthy - upper-middle maybe.
Seven figure worth is 1%.
|by Anonymous||reply 85||10/07/2020|
Wealth to me is not having two cars, going over and annoying the Parisians every year, or wearing $1000. To me wealth is having a steady income that can't be snatched away and savings that will cover emergencies.
I was able to achieve the first for awhile, but the second was almost impossible to achieve with wages stagnant and falling all of my working life. Boo hoo, I know, but it IS a bit depressing.
|by Anonymous||reply 86||10/07/2020|
im not a millionaire, my income is $80000 a year. however, I was able to make one million dollars on the stock market buying some penny stocks that went really up. if joe biden wins, i think i will have to pay 39% of capital gain taxes if i want to cash all my money.but i will vote for biden no matter what.
|by Anonymous||reply 87||10/07/2020|
Get your head out of your ass, you humble-bragging, obtuse fucker.
|by Anonymous||reply 88||10/07/2020|
Many people my age have not been as good about saving as they should have been because they are due to inherit a windfall from their parents.
Dumb move, IMHO, but I have a lot of friends whose Boomer parents bought houses in the 80s for $90K that are worth over $1M today and that alone is padding their nest eggs.
|by Anonymous||reply 89||10/07/2020|
[quote] I was able to make one million dollars on the stock market buying some penny stocks
What penny stocks?
|by Anonymous||reply 90||10/07/2020|
R90 ignore the troll. No one amasses a fortune on penny stocks alone unless they are running a fraudulent scheme.
|by Anonymous||reply 91||10/07/2020|
Articles like this are hilarious and reflect the values of people who work for media companies. They all support Biden, but they also want to put him on notice not to touch their incomes. To them, $400k is "middle class", and they neither know nor care how the other 99 percent live.
|by Anonymous||reply 92||10/07/2020|
Upper Middle Class is “wealthy.”
|by Anonymous||reply 93||10/07/2020|
|by Anonymous||reply 94||10/07/2020|
With the average salary being $60K, $400 K is wealthy enough to be taxed a bit more.
|by Anonymous||reply 95||10/07/2020|
In most states $400K is in the 1%,
That means 99% of the people may less than that
|by Anonymous||reply 96||10/07/2020|
r90 you are an ignorant, yes I was able to make one million dollars buying several stocks from different companies when I bought them more than five years ago. all i had to spend was $20000 back then to buy them. all you have to do is learn how to trade options and do some fundamental analysis looking for possible buy outs by big companies looking for competitive technologies such as augmented reality etc
|by Anonymous||reply 97||10/07/2020|
I’m sorry, 37% to the federal government, 7% to NY state, NYC income tax, property tax... why am I working? I give more of it to the government that I keep for myself. Politicians are greedy bastards.
|by Anonymous||reply 98||10/07/2020|
It’s wealthy compared to $150K for a two wage earning household like mine.
|by Anonymous||reply 99||10/07/2020|
You don't give 37% to the federal government. You give 37% of the portion of your income that is above $518,400. Your income below that amount will be taxed at 10%, 12%, 22%, 24%, 32%, and 35%.
|by Anonymous||reply 100||10/07/2020|
$400k is easily wealthy.
In December's election in the UK there was a row over increasing taxes for people who earn more than £80,000, roughly $100,000, of which £25,000, roughly $32,000 will be paid in taxes and national insurance. " I'd generally say yes, someone on that salary can afford to pay a bit more tax, but that they're not necessarily "wealthy".
But $400,000 is clearly wealthy and anyone who says otherwise is a liar.
|by Anonymous||reply 101||10/07/2020|
I want stability, I want to be able to save for emergencies, and not worry that I'm not being frugal enough with meal plans.
Those we consider middle class these days are living on the edge, deep in debt, and a small emergency away from losing their grip.
They look nice from the outside, with their newer cars, decent clothes, and granite counters. It's hollow inside.
They may make 80-150k a year, but it's stretched out by unrealistic expectations and inflation that salaries don't match.
|by Anonymous||reply 102||10/07/2020|
In march 2009 I bought $5000 of mining stocks and if I'd held on for 10 mos. it would have been $40,000--maybe $60,000 by now. But I chickened out and sold at $10,000. I'm an ass.
|by Anonymous||reply 103||10/07/2020|
Aside from NYC or most of CA, $400k pa is wealthy.
|by Anonymous||reply 104||10/07/2020|
R103, In March 2009 you could have bought ANYTHING and made a mint if you held on. That was the absolute bottom of the market.
|by Anonymous||reply 105||10/07/2020|
Pay your share OP and shaddup about it.
|by Anonymous||reply 106||10/07/2020|
I believe you and OP are on the same page R106
"Are these people for real?" was my clue
|by Anonymous||reply 107||10/07/2020|
Dems need to stop letting do much rich assholes ha ve co trol of the party. If not for their klinfluence, Bernie would be the nominee and we would be on our way to universal health care and forcing the Soledad O'Briens of the world to pay their damn taxes.
|by Anonymous||reply 108||10/07/2020|
*have so much control
|by Anonymous||reply 109||10/07/2020|
My heart bleeds for those making ONLY 400,000 a year. I don't care where they live. They can go fuck themselves if those greedy mother fuckers think it's not enough. Let them go work at McDonald' or clean subway toilets instead of what they're doing.
|by Anonymous||reply 110||10/07/2020|
r84 sorry die-hard liberal. I can't STAND the GOP and what they stand for. Personally believe the more you make the more you should pay in taxes. I can say this. I appear to have paid more in taxes than Trump did in the past 5 years. I am on track to have a few million in retirement. When I do most of it will go to my kids. And if we have them grandkids.
|by Anonymous||reply 111||10/07/2020|
Twitter had a field day with this article.
|by Anonymous||reply 112||10/07/2020|
Poor or near-poor $29,999 or less
Lower-middle class $30,000 - $49,999
Middle class $50,000 - $99,999
Upper-middle class $100,000 - $349,999
Wealthy $350,000 and up
|by Anonymous||reply 113||10/07/2020|
400 thousand is not enough to purchase your own private island or plane. Therefore you are poor and can only afford 750 in annual taxes.
|by Anonymous||reply 114||10/08/2020|
R79 where do you live that you could save that much without the hubby working?
It is unpopular - but there is truth that making 250k-400k in a city like NYC, SF, Boston, increasingly LA - is not rich.
I made 110k in Dallas - i felt super comfortable because the cost of living was much lower.
I make more than double that in NYC. I live in a non-doorman, pre-war building - no central air, no dishwasher - very basic - I pay $3700 for a 1 bedroom. I plan to move if the landlord will not negotiate down in this new market.
Buying at 250k is very tough - most decent co-ops require 20% down and 6 months of liquid income. I don't live above my means, but I also don't have a spare 200-250k sitting around for a down payment, closing, etc. Happy to rent, but after paying me and my husband's health (he's a freelancer, his income has shrunk 80%) insurance, fed, state, city taxes, my contribution to my 401k, all of our various bills, there is a lot less left than you'd think. I'm always shocked by it.
We go to dinner once a week at a $$ restaurant and splurge on 1-2 bottles of $15 wine a week.
We take one big vacation, usually only paying for one ticket - tacking on to a work trip - sometimes using miles from those I rack up for work.
We are definitely comfortable - and I don't take that for granted - I grew up very poor, parents of factory workers that did not graduate high school - but I thought making above 200k - and closer to 300k when he was employed - we would be "rich." we have 350k in our 401k but we are also kicking 50 in the ass (or perhaps the other way around). Unlike some of the millennials, it took our generation years to work up to six figures. In the 90s and 00s it was a big deal to break that barrier in many fields - and that seemed a lot of money. Once I broke that barrier, the prices of things just escalated more and more.
Used to live in LA - when I go back now to visit I am SHOCKED at the prices of housing. 1M doesn't even get you a small fixer up in an "up and coming" neighborhood. Forget Los Feliz or Silverlake and don't even think about West Hollywood. I'm honestly shocked at the number of people that must be making substantially over 400k to buy houses over 1.5M.
as noted in other comments, that couple is way in over their head on a 1.6m home/apartment. I imagine they are going to retire broke.
|by Anonymous||reply 115||10/08/2020|
This $400,000 Smells Like my Vagina!
|by Anonymous||reply 116||10/08/2020|
As someone who grew up in and still lives in that world, R113, there is a huge gap between people making $400K/year and people making $4MM/year.
I am indeed splitting hairs because, as I'd noted, it's comparing the 1% to the 0.1%, but I would define "wealthy" as income over $800K/year with more than $1MM in assets other than your home, or, $10MM in assets (trust or similar) and income "is what it is"
A couple each making $200K/year at a corporate job with no stability and limited savings is upper middle class. If their careers go well and they save money, they will eventually be rich, but they're not there yet and they likely have limited disposable income if they are have kids and are trying to save for both college and retirement.
|by Anonymous||reply 117||10/08/2020|
There is a huge difference in someone making 4 million and someone making 4 billion r117, that doesn't mean the 4 million person isn't wealthy.
Just because someone looks at people who have more and doesn't "feel wealthy", doesn't mean they aren't wealthy. Their level of financial resources is far beyond the life of a "normal" American, they are wealthy.
|by Anonymous||reply 118||10/08/2020|
R113, $100K in a big city is DEFINITELY NOT upper middle class. Take it from me. It’d be a good living in a rural area but in a big city, it’s definitely lower middle class at best. I’m not complaining, I am grateful for everything I have, but it’s pretty basic without much wiggle room. And I am aware that people scrape by on much less, too. But the value of any amount depends on where you live and what things cost.
|by Anonymous||reply 119||10/08/2020|
CNBC is pretty much the propaganda arm of the 1%.
|by Anonymous||reply 120||10/08/2020|
A stylish newish yacht over 80 meters is well over 100 million.
|by Anonymous||reply 121||10/08/2020|
Even in NYC, $400K is wealthy.
Sure, there are a ton of uber wealthy who make much more than that, but $400K is the lower end of the wealthy
|by Anonymous||reply 122||10/08/2020|
The $400,000 is just a number. What's important is that Biden will give working people a tax break, and he will stick it to those who can afford to pay more. I h ope you realize that when Eisenhower was PResident our income tax was at 90% for the wealthiest. Yes.
|by Anonymous||reply 123||10/10/2020|
I live in a very wealthy area, I'm not wealthy, and many that I know have boats, luxury cars, houses on the water with their own bulkheads and are constantly jetting off two Cabo or some Caribbean islands and they are all Trumpers and they constantly talk about their money and seem terrified that unnamed "others" will get it. ALL they care about is THEIR money.
|by Anonymous||reply 124||10/10/2020|
I live in the midwest and my AGI is more than $500k per year. However, I own a company (an S-corp). The profits flow to shareholders, which inflates my income. There is no way that I live on $500k per year because money is invested back into the company to purchase assets such as vehicles, equipment, etc. I am wealthy on paper, but not in reality.
|by Anonymous||reply 125||10/10/2020|
You own a goddamn company, you're wealthy.
Christ, the disconnect with some of you. "Poor me! All my profits are invested back into the company I own!"
|by Anonymous||reply 126||10/10/2020|
$200k is wealthy. The cost of living where you choose to reside is just part of what you spend your wealth on. If you want to spend a large percentage of your wealth on housing or other necessities instead of on luxury goods, that doesn’t change your status of wealthy.
|by Anonymous||reply 127||10/10/2020|
Thats overly simplistic r127. You can't just chose to live in Fargo, for a lot of careers you had to be in a major city which comes with a high cost of living.
Which 400k is wealthy in any city, but 200k is not "wealthy" in a major urban area.
|by Anonymous||reply 128||10/10/2020|
The wealth is the $200k, wherever you are. How much of it you spend, or what you spend it on, doesn’t change that $200k is wealthy.
|by Anonymous||reply 129||10/11/2020|
R126, why don't you invest your life savings and work 16 hour days/7 days per week to own your own successful company where you can make lots of money. Even though you won't have time to spend any of it because you're too busy working, at least you won't be so bitter about your unfortunate life choices.
|by Anonymous||reply 130||10/11/2020|
Those saying 200k or even 400k "anywhere" is wealthy type poor and have never had a high paying job in a major metropolitan city.
400k for a single income home person in a major city could build wealth by living in a studio.
I know many making that much and more in San Francisco and NYC. If it's 2 people it is solidly middle class. Add in kids and you are fucked. Sure, the jobs pay a lot more - but the taxes are insane - and the cost of everything is substantially higher.
I know doctors, lawyers, blue chip execs, that live in rentals or, in cases where two very successful, high earners are married, have homes in SF and LA that would go for 250-300k in many areas - AT MOST - that cost between 1.5m - 2m in CA and lower CT. An 850 square foot, bedroom, 1 bath on a 2k square foot lot in Culver City for 1.4m is not living large. Inflation has ruined everything. I grew up in a larger home in Mass on an acre lot in a solid town. The house cost 70k in the 90s. In that same time frame, houses in LA went for 200s/300s in the Hollywood Hills.
I get reverse sticker shock when I travel. Even things like a six pack of paper towels are like $5. A single roll in NYC is $4-5. Not that you would have room to store a six pack anyhow.
200k is Florida or parts of TX (not Austin, kids) you are upper middle class and could build wealth because there are not state and city taxes.
HOA fees alone in most NYC co-ops and condos are equivalent to the MORTGAGE of what my friends living in other states pay compared to NYC and SF.
Before you weigh in on what "rich" is in the six figures - try earning it and doing so in a major metropolitan city. That will gain you a real perspective fast.
|by Anonymous||reply 131||10/13/2020|
400K a year is very fucking wealthy! What are you cunts talking about??? Liars.
|by Anonymous||reply 132||10/13/2020|
The highest category for measuring median income in the United States starts at $70,000 a year.
Wealthy is a read herring. The question is income.
|by Anonymous||reply 133||10/13/2020|
400,000 is middleclass. Upper middle class. Income distribution has changed and a lot of it has to do with the busting up of labor unions and Republicans establishing "right to work" states. Our standard of living is not as good as it once was. We have an abysmal minimum wage situation too. The gap between wage earners has grown. But you
|by Anonymous||reply 134||10/13/2020|
|by Anonymous||reply 135||10/13/2020|
|by Anonymous||reply 136||10/13/2020|
What earning percentile are people who earn $400 thousand per year and over? Top 5% or 10% of earners?
|by Anonymous||reply 137||10/13/2020|
400k puts you in the top 2% of household incomes in America r137. It is wealthy.
The problem is people like r131 look at people who are even more wealthy and therefore claim that 400k isn't wealthy. Yes, New York has a large population of people who are really rich so it is easy to lose perspective. 400k is not solidly-middle class. Not even in San Fransico or New York. There are real middle class people in New York and the Bay area that are getting by on a lot less than 400k.
|by Anonymous||reply 138||10/13/2020|
R22 37,200 a year for a babysitter. How hilarious.
|by Anonymous||reply 139||10/13/2020|
R137, see r61.
A *household* earning $400K is in the top 2% nationally.
|by Anonymous||reply 140||10/13/2020|
I’d like to know how many of the $250K+ earners crying poverty here are among the owners of the AMGs and Teslas and other very high-end cars listed in the car thread.
|by Anonymous||reply 141||10/13/2020|
Those making $400k a year need a better defense if they hope to escape the noose.
|by Anonymous||reply 142||10/13/2020|
The issue is that most of us earning over $400 work our asses off and live in big cities with high taxes. We are already taxed out and don’t want to give our inept government another dime to waste. Sure, there are some who were born lucky or live in a small town, but that is likely the minority.
|by Anonymous||reply 143||10/13/2020|
[quote]Those saying 200k or even 400k "anywhere" is wealthy type poor
Wow, way to live up to the stereotype. You ARE wealthy and you DO hate the poor. Fuck you.
|by Anonymous||reply 144||10/14/2020|
So I guess this means you’ll be voting for Trump then, r143.
Also, the janitors and housekeepers and other $30K earners who presumably do not - unlike you - “work their asses off” would like a word, but they’re too busy trying to keep roofs over their heads and food on the table.
|by Anonymous||reply 145||10/14/2020|
Everyone "works hard." Someone earning $400K does not work 10x as hard as someone who makes 40K. Taxes are based on income so if you make $400k you can afford much higher taxes than even what you're paying right now. Everyone knows the rich pay hardly any taxes as a percentage of their actual income, let alone their wealth.
|by Anonymous||reply 146||10/14/2020|
[quote] R143: The issue is that most of us earning over $400 work our asses off and live in big cities with high taxes. We are already taxed out and don’t want to give our inept government another dime to waste.
I appreciate this feeling, but it is terribly misguided. People earning $40k a year also work their asses off. And rich people wouldn’t have much of a life without scores of people earning $40k a year, around them, keeping their world running.
|by Anonymous||reply 147||10/14/2020|
Similarly, r146, Jeff Bezos has not worked a million times harder in his life than someone whose net worth is only $131,000 (compared to his $131B).
But for some reason, the class envy of rich people (i.e. those in the top 2%, which includes households earning $400K or more) is only ever directed downwards.
|by Anonymous||reply 148||10/14/2020|
I've worked very hard all my life. I've moved country leaving my family behind twice when recessions hit. I don't have any interest in or talent for STEM so I accept that this limits my earnings. Salaries in the US are crazy. There are private schools in Texas, random ones that nobody has heard of, that charge twice the tuition of Eton! This shows you that that random families in Dallas are earning double or more of British 'elites', and they are. It's been my experience that when you get into the top 10% of US salaries they are 30-60% more than those for the same jobs in the UK, France, Sweden, Ireland..etc.. I hooked up with a French doctor on a trip to Paris who told me he earns 75,000 a year. He said he spent a year training in Florida where doctors could earn up to 500,000 a year in his position! In the US I earn 52K and live well as a single man. No luxuries or investments or fancy cars but I don't worry. In Ireland (where I went to uni) I would be earning 35,000 and paying more tax and in Britain around £27,000 outside London and about £33000 in London. Rent would be higher in Dublin and about the same in London so I am financially better off in the US.
The one thing that has been very hard for me to reconcile since moving to the US in that people earning massive amount of money cry poor and people earning $8 an hour in Alabama don't want unions, healthcare, cheaper colleges. Whaaat! Everyone has lost all perscpective. I can only assume people who earn 250K or 400K or 600K are claim the are struggling and middle class and comparing themselves to even richer people... But where does it end. The 2% look at the .01% are feel hard done by when really they should look at the 98% are thank their lucky stars they were born with the intellectual ability/luck/supportive family/connections (whatever contributed to such great financial success) and of course good health. Then they should feel grateful for every $ and for the wonderful lifestyle they lead which is better than 99.9% of people on this planet today and better than 99.9999999% of humans who have ever lived.
|by Anonymous||reply 149||10/14/2020|
JUST TO PLAY "DEVILS' ADVOCATE" what say you all (because fox does this 24/7) when it's said that the top 1% pay over 75 (i think i heard 83%?)% of the taxes, so why should they pay even MORE?
i always figured it's because the other 17 to 25% don't HAVE ANY money to pay taxes and/or they do pay taxes, just not alot because of the average salary?
so when repub pundits spew out the theme again and again and again and again over and over and over is the reality that yes, the 1% pay the majority of taxes, BUT based on their incomes the PERCENTAGE of taxes that 1% are paying is less than the average to below average american pays? a little truth they "forget" to mention?..
|by Anonymous||reply 150||10/14/2020|
In SF $400K as combined income for a couple is not out of the norm. Also not considered super wealthy, more like upper-middle class if they have kids. I have colleagues in that category and scenario, they’re very comfortable but not living large. It means they can afford to send kids to private school and go on nice vacations yearly, but they still have to maintain a mortgage with both parents working. They do get more tax credits for their kids and mortgages than what I get as a single filer.
Many people who don’t pay income tax don’t understand that for a single person making say, $175K (what I make now), we get taxed heavily, more so than millionaires who can hide assets or use loopholes. 37% to feds and 7.25% to the state of California. Over $77K a year of my gross earning goes towards taxes. This is if I put nothing, pre-tax gross pay, into my 403/ 457 retirement plans. But I do put about 10% of my gross towards those funds. So essentially I get taxed off of a yearly gross income of $157K, and pay combined fed/ state income tax of $69,500 a year. That’s roughly $7200-7300 a month net income. My rent and student loan payment combined eats up about $4200. What I have leftover I use to pay other living expenses and car payment. I also carry liability insurance and keep up with professional education (work as a DNP).
While I consider myself lucky and am not complaining, it’s a fact that people like myself are not “wealthy”, certainly not here in SF. I can’t even afford to buy a condo here.
|by Anonymous||reply 151||10/14/2020|
Poor people DO pay taxes. They pay sales taxes (where applicable) and payroll taxes and motor-vehicle registrations and gas taxes and, for those who happen to be homeowners, property taxes too.
|by Anonymous||reply 152||10/14/2020|
When it comes to taxes, you need to look at wealth as well as income, as it gets even more unbalanced in favor of the wealthy when you do that.
|by Anonymous||reply 153||10/14/2020|
In the UK 100,000 is considered upper middle class or 'posh'. In the UK 100,000 is the figure that will get the working classes out with their pitch forks if you come on the radio complaining about your salary. That is because it is hard to make 100,00. Very hard. I get it, some of you earn a lot but you have to pay taxes and you're not frolicking on your yacht all summer BUT come on now. Some of you 'only' have 3K a month after expenses. I'm sorry but 99% of people are not dusting out the violin for you because 50%+ of people in the country only have 3K a month or less TOTAL after taxes. I see the pattern here and that is that you high earners are living in expensive areas surrounded by other high earners and you've become a little out of touch.
There are the movie stars and the tech entrepreneurs and the heirs and heiresses who got lucky. Such is life. It will never be fair. BUT you can't have everything. You could live in a low cost area of the US or on the Amalfi Coast or in Lisbon. There you could buy a house for 60K, you would have lots of vacation time and time to sit in the town square sipping a coffee and watching the world go by. You would, however, be lucky to earn 30K and will never accumulate wealth. On the other hand if you want hundreds of thousands a year then it's the big cities of the USA and lots of work, work, work. This is the thing that is missing in conversations about money. There is no 'Oz'. Outside of the lucky few, the rest of us will either end up competing at the highest level in capitalist society or we can go quasi socialist like Denmark where nobody is on the breadline, there is less income inequality but it's very, very hard to crack 100k and accumulate generational wealth so therefor people pay higher taxes to improve the public schools and hospitals because they accept they are not going to ever earn enough to start moving into gated communities and paying for private schools and hospitals. I favor the second option but I also accept that most Americans (including liberals) do not. They are not happy with the homelessness and poverty and growing underclass but are also not paying a cent more in taxes and they are certainly not going to give up anything or let the plebs into their neighborhoods and schools. So.....Either something will give or the US becomes India.
|by Anonymous||reply 154||10/14/2020|
R150, that is a laughable "talking point."
|by Anonymous||reply 155||10/14/2020|
You can only take so much out of the average salary before the person ends up out on the street so of course a person earning 20,000 pays less in raw numbers BUT 2,000 out of 20,000 is a bigger ouch than 400,000 out of a million. Governments are very reluctant to raises taxes on the working poor because of how narrow the margins are for them between a roof and food and out on the street. 40% of Americans have less than $1,000 to their name. Another 500 a year in taxes is a hammer blow. I saw an article about kids whose parents cannot afford laptops for home learning. Someone in the comments said the parents were not looking hard enough because he had a few laptops laying around that he had picked up for '2 or 300' on eBay. Another poster said the parents could get a Chromebook for $200 right now in the Amazon sale! A hundred dollars is a small fortune to the millions of people earning $8-$15 an hour. $300 is close to a full weeks salary. They don't have it. It can be hard I guess for some to understand what 'struggling' really means especially in a society with such income disparity and where the social classes have less contact with each passing generation.
|by Anonymous||reply 156||10/14/2020|
Tax them, or Axe them!
Duck and cover!
|by Anonymous||reply 157||10/14/2020|
R156 I think distance or home-based learning is here to stay. As such, I believe PCs should be issued to the students who need them free of charge. Another issue is with reliable internet access, as many students from disadvantaged backgrounds have families who cannot afford to pay for internet service. So maybe the school districts should partner up with cable companies to allow internet service at vastly discounted rates to eligible students during the school year.
|by Anonymous||reply 158||10/14/2020|
Thanks for the reality check, r156. Some of the rich queens on this thread probably feel “deprived” because they’re forced to drive Mercedeses instead of Bentleys, or because they can only afford to go to St. Maarten instead of St. Barts, or because their bathroom is the wrong shade of ecru but they can’t afford to have it redone because they’re saving for a ‘round-the-world cruise on the Queen Mary 2.
Yeah, yeah, I know, I type poor. My husband and I “only” earn $160K between us, which makes us - what? - upper lower class? upper lower middle class? - yet somehow we have everything we need. And are still able to set aside a couple thousand a month.
While living in San Francisco.
|by Anonymous||reply 159||10/14/2020|
And Biden isn't raising your taxes since you "only" make 175k r151. Even if you had a partner also making 175k, you all still wouldn't make enough money to have your taxes raised.
So yes, Biden is only targeting people who are upper income. That is the point.
|by Anonymous||reply 160||10/14/2020|
R151's entire post is about living in [italic]San Francisco[/italic], a city that notoriously gentrified everyone except the very wealthy, and attracted massive wealth from the tech industry. Anyone who currently lives in San Francisco is uber-wealthy by definition.
The level of disconnect is staggering. The complete lack of irony on R151's part only underscores that. These people are completely out of touch with what is normal, let alone what actual hardship looks like.
|by Anonymous||reply 161||10/14/2020|
R160/ R161 calm the fuck down you idiot. Where did I say he’s raising my taxes, you fucking loon? Reading comprehension is a bitch, I get it.
I even said I wasn’t complaining and am grateful for my income. The point is that many people think anything $150-200K as wealthy, without considering the net income after taxes. Out of touch and not understanding hardship? Oh man, you couldn’t function in the hardship that I grew up in. There was a time in my childhood that we were living literally week to week. My mother was a single parent whose first language wasn’t English and she worked 2-3 jobs to support us. You do the fucking math, bitch.
|by Anonymous||reply 162||10/14/2020|
[quote]Many people who don't pay income tax
Also, this is Lucille Bluth-level tone-deafness. Everyone who works for a living pays income tax. People making less than $10k a year pay income tax. Do you think there are people on this thread who work for a living and pay zero income taxes?
|by Anonymous||reply 163||10/14/2020|
the only option is to ignore every rich twat who will appear in 2021, shrieking about the deficit and the horrors of taxation and every other stupid thing that every rich twat has been shrieking about for 50 years and get back to an actual Democratic Party Presidency. Raise taxes as much as possible on the rich. Help the poor and working class as much as possible. Medicare for All to the extent possible. And fuck all the background noise about austerity and the unfortunate need to cut all social programs, including Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security in these trying times. Those limits will magically disappear in the next Republican administration, so let them disappear now.
Also look seriously and Universal Basic Income.
|by Anonymous||reply 164||10/14/2020|
... and then watch powerlessly, r164, as every single progressive reform of the Biden administration is undone by the fascist-run Supreme Court.
|by Anonymous||reply 165||10/14/2020|
well, that's what court packing is for r165
|by Anonymous||reply 166||10/14/2020|
R163 Here you go, here’s a simple to follow article that explains things a bit.
Yes to universal health insurance and not just medicare expansion. There needs to be an overhaul of medicare system. Access to healthcare is a real problem and that goes for people with medicare. The problem is not just with having coverage but also with access to adequate and timely care. I see this all the time with my patients.
Yes to UBI because it allows extra layer of safety net to the most vulnerable individuals in society. Expand student loan forgiveness programs for those working with underserved populations or underserved areas.
Tax credits to single taxpayers who take care of elderly or sick family members for extended amount of time. When my mother became ill with terminal cancer, I had to take unpaid leave just to care for her in stretches of time. It strained my finances for the duration of those two years.
|by Anonymous||reply 167||10/14/2020|
|by Anonymous||reply 168||10/14/2020|
R163 here’s another one.
|by Anonymous||reply 169||10/14/2020|
R48 makes no sense. How can you possibly be paying that much income tax?
And if it is true, why are you only taking the standard deduction? I make 60K/yr and I itemize.
Either you are lying or you are really stupid about money.
|by Anonymous||reply 170||10/14/2020|
For R163, here’s the article I forgot to link
|by Anonymous||reply 171||10/14/2020|
Someone has to be really naive to believe that $400,000 is just middle class, even in NYC. $400,000 will put will above the vast majority of people.
|by Anonymous||reply 172||10/14/2020|
This is why I cannot vote Democrat. My husband and I earn more than that, not by much, and we just get by in NYC, especially with all the DeBlasio taxes we pay. Disgusting.
|by Anonymous||reply 173||10/14/2020|
[quote] This is why I cannot vote Democrat. My husband and I earn more than that, not by much, and we just get by in NYC, especially with all the DeBlasio taxes we pay. Disgusting.
Poor, poor thing.
|by Anonymous||reply 174||10/14/2020|
Ha you won't have a husband much longer of you vote Repug. You can leave NY and probably earn less or stay and pay. In Europe you would be taxed out the wazoo on that salary. And 'just get by' ,please, you guys must be financial illiterates in that case.
|by Anonymous||reply 175||10/14/2020|
[quote] you guys must be financial illiterates in that case.
You think those escorts, caviar and coke will just pay for themselves?!
|by Anonymous||reply 176||10/14/2020|
Everyone think that making so much more than most people means you can have anything you want. But you actually have a lot less. I wanted to do our dining room in gold leaf and our parlor in silver leaf. That is not much to ask.
But if we did it, we would have to pass on our usual three weeks in the south of France. It is not fair that the Democrats want to interfere in our interior design, but that is what things have come to.
|by Anonymous||reply 177||10/14/2020|
Everyone wants to see themselves as middle class r172. They have lost touch with what a real middle class family looks like.
That's the problem with money, the more you have the more you spend and it never seems like enough.
|by Anonymous||reply 178||10/14/2020|
When the economy tanked in 2008, I was laid off and forced to take two jobs and earned less with both terrible shite gigs. My work day began at 8 am and ended at 11 pm.
It is a falsehood that rich people are wealthy because they work hard and the poor are lazy who won't work.
in 2008, I paid more annual taxes than the stable genius who smartly paid 750 dollars in federal taxes.
garbage people, please deport them to the former USSR.
|by Anonymous||reply 179||10/14/2020|
[quote] It is a falsehood that rich people are wealthy because they work hard and the poor are lazy who won't work.
But deeply embedded in American culture thanks to Puritanism, Calvinism and the prosperity gospel. It's one of the most toxic aspects of the culture.
|by Anonymous||reply 180||10/14/2020|
Poor people are lazy.
You don't have to be smart to make good money.
Garbage collectors in NYC make six figures.
|by Anonymous||reply 181||10/14/2020|
[quote] Everyone wants to see themselves as middle class
Yes, most Americans view themselves as both middle class and potential billionaires/lottery winners in the making. Very weird.
|by Anonymous||reply 182||10/14/2020|
r472, they are not naive, they're greedy.
They're not wealthy because they're unable to own a vacation home in the Hamptons with a heliport.
|by Anonymous||reply 183||10/14/2020|
R181 But I assume you're one of the one scraping by on several hundreds of thousands so surely the 100K garbage collector is poor by your definition?
|by Anonymous||reply 184||10/14/2020|
r180 how does any of this align with the camel and the eye of a needle maxim?
|by Anonymous||reply 185||10/14/2020|
R185 Read Russell Conwell's famous sermon "Acres of Diamonds“ for an early example of the idea that poverty=sin. People cherry pick the Bible all the time. The various religious sects and denominations all do this. The most “vocal” Christians in this country don’t even believe in treating others as they would like to be treated or letting he without sun cast the first stone!
Trumps “spiritual advisor”, a prosperity preacher, was on FB recently live-streaming and asking her flock not to pay their electric bill but instead send the money to her!! It’s called “seed money”, and she said they’ll get it back from God 10 fold.
|by Anonymous||reply 186||10/14/2020|
The “prosperity gospel” makes perfect sense once you understand that its creators are diametrically opposed to everything Jesus actually stood for.
|by Anonymous||reply 187||10/14/2020|
$400K is upper middle class. I think that number should be more like $750K+ for the taxation. It's a nice house, private schools, but it's not mansions and Bentley money. Or it's lower upper class.
|by Anonymous||reply 188||10/14/2020|
Why? Only 2% of the population earn a household income of 400,000. Surely if you’re in the 2% it’s only fair to expect a small tax raise. I’m originally from Ireland and was paying 44% in income tax on some of my income (salary only €41,000 gross) plus PRSI plus universal social charge. I had no health benefits, no pension and no such thing as 401Ks. Had to take out a loan to get my wisdom teeth out. If I was earning 400K (almost impossible in Ireland) I would have been paying half of that in taxes.
I think most DLers would be Tories if they lived in the U.K. The only thing keeping you guys voting Dem is gay rights!
|by Anonymous||reply 189||10/14/2020|
My dad made around 500-600K and we lived a very normal life. We had nice things, but nothing over the top. The top taxation rate should really be for people with excessive wealth.
|by Anonymous||reply 190||10/14/2020|
It is weird that people who are in the top 2% describe their life as "normal."
People like R190 only knew a curated group of people, so he did not know what normal was. So now his family is the standard for him even though the data suggests that someone with that income does not live a typical life.
He is emotionally attached to his definition of "normal," so even when facts, data, figures, etc. tell him that his idea is not true, he will not accept it.
|by Anonymous||reply 191||10/15/2020|
It reminds me of the time a bunch of people were talking about the awful feeling you get when you are broke. One person said it was awful feeling of insecurity when you check your bank balance and there is only two or three thousand left.
Another person said, "I was thinking it is when you check your bank balance and you only have $20 left."
|by Anonymous||reply 192||10/15/2020|
R190 has no idea what normal is.
|by Anonymous||reply 193||10/15/2020|
[quote] I think most DLers would be Tories if they lived in the U.K. The only thing keeping you guys voting Dem is gay rights!
Sad but true.
|by Anonymous||reply 194||10/15/2020|
Exactly, r191, which is why a system where rich people essentially pay politicians to set their own tax rates is such a disaster. So very, very few consider themselves rich (and the few are usually neurotics like Trump who just HAVE to be rich to feel anything). In general, we need to save them from themselves and their weird delusions about what life is really like.
|by Anonymous||reply 195||10/15/2020|
My first thought when I read R190, was "What happened to the money?" I was thinking at least half of that income had to be gambled away, lost to medical expenses, or used to support relatives every year if the family's life was "normal."
Then I realized that like Humpty-Dumpty, he had made up his own definition of "normal."
|by Anonymous||reply 196||10/15/2020|
R131 smell her! A couple earning 400K each - total 800k a YEAR will be hard up and barely middle class if living in SF or NYC. M'Kay.
|by Anonymous||reply 197||10/15/2020|
yeah, conservatives want to blame it all on taxes, but isn't it really the insane and ridiculous housing markets in NYC and San Francisco that are the root of most problems?
|by Anonymous||reply 198||10/15/2020|
I love how people argue that the top 2% of earners are only middle class.
The wealthy in NYC and SF may not live as well as they would in another location with the same income. But that does not make them not-wealthy. It does not make them middle-class. There are actual middle-class people in those expensive cities.
|by Anonymous||reply 199||10/15/2020|
I wish we were "wealthy" but we're just making ends meet. We never should have bought the super yacht for 100m+ but John wanted this toy and said it would help his brand. It's a tax deduction, as is the 5m+ a year upkeep, and it's losing value, not gaining. We paid over 25m in "fees" to Vaud and the commune to permanently settle our tax issues and get the permanent residency and passports. The apartment in Paris. Plus the vineyard. The house in Bodrum, the chalet, John wanted a garden in Ravello so just that is 500k annually in manpower. We're barely middle-class and I drew the line at NY or San Francisco pied a terre, the cost of living is unacceptably high. Le Rosey, Williams, Cambridge for the daughter, of course they simply couldn't attend state in France or Switzerland, NO!
|by Anonymous||reply 200||10/15/2020|
R163 no reply from you about erroneously asserting that almost everyone working pays income tax. Maybe you were confusing payroll tax with income tax.
On another topic, a big opportunity was missed in not passing universal healthcare first under Clinton then Obama. If we go back and study the Clinton economy which generated a surplus from inherited deficit, it’s middle class as well as lower-income growth that spurred the economy. The surplus allowed the funding of social services and programs such as SCHIP. SCHIP was the one thing that was salvaged from the universal healthcare debate, even the Repugs couldn’t deny needy children their health insurance. The Clinton economy took a combination of fiscal responsibility and fairness in tax policies, it was not based upon ideology but took aspects from progressive and free market thinking. From the linked article:
“An increase in the top ordinary income tax rate from 31 percent to 39.6 percent
Repealing the cap on earnings subject to the Medicare payroll tax
Increasing the corporate income tax rate for profits above $10 million
Reducing the deductibility of business meals and entertainment expenses”
In 1992 Clinton correctly predicted that not having a national healthcare insurance plan would lead to economic stagnation impacting working-class and middle-class. The amount of money that we’re spending now and projected to spend in the future is untenable. Biden winning and Dems getting control of both House and Senate, it’s not enough to talk about tax rates how tax revenues will be used.
|by Anonymous||reply 201||10/15/2020|
Sorry forgot to link the article
|by Anonymous||reply 202||10/15/2020|
There are trolls among us, folks. Remember that. They're desperate to defend Trump and paint Biden as an extremist.
|by Anonymous||reply 203||10/15/2020|
My brother once confided to me that he made $600,000 a year, before bonus. My initial reaction was to blurt out how proud my (depression-era) father would be, and if he remembers his roots, he could bank three years’ of excess income and thereafter never worry about falling into poverty again. He lives modestly, except that he likes to travel, though even then, not luxuriously. He also gave his kid a car and didn’t require him to work in high school, even summers, which I thought was a mistake, but didn’t say so.
He resents paying taxes and that’s partly why he was a Republican. But so do I, and then we pay them, because we know it’s the price of civilization. He was a Republican but has said, as a result of Trump and his supporters, that he would never vote Republican again. I won’t hold him to that, as long as he votes against Trump , it’s sufficient for me. The family members I have who are voting for Trump are either driven by racism, or a sociopathic selfishness, coupled with emotional support from the liars on Fox. I really believe that Fox is one of the greatest destructive powers in American today because it gives people the license to excuse and indulge their worst impulses.
My nephew is a deluded Trumpian, I think, to seek his father’s approval, and because he was Foxwashed all while growing up, and because he doesn’t understand the difference between jingoism and patriotism.
|by Anonymous||reply 204||10/15/2020|
I once saw in a movie, but it rang true to me, that the devil tried for centuries to wipe-out Christianity by persecution, disease, impoverishment, and all manner of hardship, with no luck. Then he more recently realized that they way to do so was to make Christians wealthy and powerful, and that’s working nicely for him.
It’s just a simplification from a movie, no need to bother debunking it with actual facts. I just thought it was interesting.
|by Anonymous||reply 205||10/15/2020|
My personal experience at around the year 2000, living in a major city, was that earnings above $100,000 in income all went to discretionary, ie, luxury spending or savings.
Please don’t confuse this as me saying that I needed the income up to $100,000 for necessities, Just that above $100,000, there was no denying that it was in excess of what I really needed to be comfortable. At about the same time, I figured that I really needed about $50,000 a year to support my lifestyle. That influenced my decision to retire early.
I cite the year 2000 because inflation would change the dollar amounts somewhat. Plus, I managed to get through the dot-com crash and Great Recession ok. AlsoK I am managing this crash ok, too, so far, but during the Great Recession I did am analysis and determined that I would probably live through two or three additional, major economic crashes before I died, and people much smarter than I am have lost everything in such crashes, so it pays not to be overconfident.
|by Anonymous||reply 206||10/15/2020|
Until recently, I worked in NYC making under 100k/year. I probably couldn't have afforded a nice apartment close to work. On the other hand I was able to buy a nice house in the suburbs in a safe neighborhood and commuted to work.
Granted, I am a person who lives frugally. But that's my choice.
People complaining that 400k in New York City means you're just scraping by have expensive taste and are making poor choices.
|by Anonymous||reply 207||10/15/2020|
always wondered this? how people can afford to live in l.a., nyc or san fran or anyplace expensive... what i mean is that age old statement has always been "yes, the cost of living is higher at these cities, but the pay scale is higher too, whether your work at McDonald's or your a lawyer"...this is all true, but the pay scale isn't THAT MUCH HIGHER! no matter what the job is! so if the pay scale is 10 %, 20% higher for whatever position you have in these cities, but the COST OF LIVING is 50% higher how does anyone come out ahead then?...
i mean it's like not like if you were making 50 thousand in arkansas for a job if you moved to these expensive cities you would be making 150 thousand for the same job! so if a house in arkansas was 125 to 150 thousand how do you then afford a 750 thousand to 1 million dollar home? as i said the cost of living is WAY WAY more than the higher pay scale..
|by Anonymous||reply 208||10/15/2020|
New York is weird because some things are cheaper than elsewhere. I spent a lot less on produce, books, clothing, and some other things than when I moved.
Partly it is distribution paths which advantage NYC. Also, there is a lot of promotion going on so you get a lot of free clothes, shoes, etc. either in your own office or from a friends. Also, the sales are a lot more extreme than elsewhere.
Free tickets and free cultural events are easy to find.
Plus you have none of the expenses associated with cars.
So while the cost of living is more expensive, there are a few compensations.
|by Anonymous||reply 209||10/15/2020|
"Normal" people in expensive cities aren't buying property r208, they rent. And living alone is seen as a luxury, roommates are common.
|by Anonymous||reply 210||10/15/2020|
[quote]Free tickets and free cultural events are easy to find.
Even if this were universally true (which it is not, people actually aren't giving free shit away to everyone), free theater tickets are little help to someone who can't swing the rent or pay for food.
|by Anonymous||reply 211||10/16/2020|
R191 - I get it is not necessarily normal, bit I think that people just have a skewed vision of what someone in the $400-600K income bracket is. Our life had advantages like private schools, a 4000 sq ft house, E-class Mercedes, no debts, that kind of thing. Very middle of the road. My mom never worked which was pretty normal for someone of my generation (born in 1980). Most of the moms didn't work, even when I was really little and my parents were in their early 30's still very solidly middle class. Yes, it's not necessarily normal, but it's not mansions and fancy cars. That money was very hard earned. My parents are 70 and retired. They don't talk about finances b/c we all hate each other, but my parents were conservative with money. Anyhow, I just want to show that there is another side of the coin. This level of money is white collar working class - doctors, lawyers, etc. It does not deserve the taxation of the truly wealthy Hilton family of wealth. 30M inheritances, etc. That is who should be taxed.
|by Anonymous||reply 212||10/16/2020|
Also, I think people are thinking of this kind of money from the lens of being single gay men or women. 600K for a family of 4 is not insane. You have 80K in just school tuitions alone for 2 kids if you want private schools and no financial aid for college which could be almost 100K/year today in 2020.
|by Anonymous||reply 213||10/16/2020|
There are so many angry, hateful comments on this thread.
I didn't realize poor people were so bitter. Is this representative of all people or just the poor gays of Datalounge?
|by Anonymous||reply 214||10/16/2020|
Define “poor”, r214.
|by Anonymous||reply 215||10/16/2020|
[quote] My mom never worked which was pretty normal for someone of my generation
No it was normal of someone from your class/income level. I'm close in age and my mother worked, my grandmothers worked and my great-grandmother worked in domestic service to scrape enough money to emigrate by herself at 20. Your comment has just showed that you are as out of touch as we all said. 80K a year in private school fees, sheesh. Most families don't earn 80K gross. There's nothing wrong with earning the kind of money your father did, he should be allowed to enjoy the fruits of his labor while paying a fair rate of tax but don't come on and pretend you were not raised in a very small elite segment of the population. Sorry you all hate each other now though. That is genuinely sad and I hope you have found a support system outside your family
|by Anonymous||reply 216||10/16/2020|
[quote] I think that people just have a skewed vision of what someone in the $400-600K income bracket is
[quote] Our life had advantages like private schools, a 4000 sq ft house, E-class Mercedes, no debts, that kind of thing
This is exactly what I imagined.
[quote] Very middle of the road
Um, no. Dude get out more and meet more people.
|by Anonymous||reply 217||10/16/2020|
I thought R212 was trying to be funny, listing all the perks of wealth and saying that they are nothing special. But the ending of his post made me think he is being serious.
4000 sq ft homes, mothers not working in the 1980s, private schools, Mercedes, no debt, was far from "middle of the road" then and now. I find it hard to think anyone is that removed from reality as to think that was "middle-class." But there are indeed such people.
|by Anonymous||reply 218||10/16/2020|
Trust me r218, there are a lot of those people.
Its very easy if you were raised in a certain bubble, went to schools and into careers with people mainly like you. It feels normal.
I'm in that world now, but wasn't born into it, but the perspective people lack is shocking.
|by Anonymous||reply 219||10/16/2020|
"I may have had 9 nannies, a yacht, 12 yorkies all with wool sweaters, two investment banker parents but believe me, we struggled to afford our 8 million dollar penthouse"
|by Anonymous||reply 220||10/17/2020|
You all don't understand! It's expensive to fund your children's education to the very best schools, to afford a sprawling single family home in a top-tier city, fund your 401k and stock investments to retire at 55, and all one one income so there's a stay at home parent and someone to manage the household staff as well! After all that, there's barely any money leftover to travel anywhere except to our vacation homes!
If you made enough to actually pay income taxes you might, but you don't understand what it's like to scrape buy on next to nothing as a middle class millionaires!
|by Anonymous||reply 221||10/17/2020|
We weren't rich! Everyone in our gated community had servants, too!
|by Anonymous||reply 222||10/17/2020|
[quote]600K for a family of 4 is not insane.
You're insane if you think having exactly two children requires over half a million a year to cover expenses.
|by Anonymous||reply 223||10/17/2020|
R223, well, those fancy boarding schools and personal private jets won't pay for themselves, will they!?
|by Anonymous||reply 224||10/17/2020|
Is it possible to earn morally or ethically in wages and bonuses more than $200k a year? No, regardless of where you live. At least people “earning” more than that have showed some shame by not disclosing their profession.
|by Anonymous||reply 225||10/17/2020|
I have no idea what you are trying to say r225. Physicians earn more than 200k, so being a doctor is unethical to you?
|by Anonymous||reply 226||10/17/2020|
[quote]My mom never worked which was pretty normal for someone of my generation (born in 1980).
This is laughably inaccurate. I was born over a decade before you and roughly half of the moms of kids my age worked, including my own.
|by Anonymous||reply 227||10/17/2020|
[quote] Is it possible to earn morally or ethically in wages and bonuses more than $200k a year?
Disagree--there are doctors, tech workers, etc. that make this amount and more.
|by Anonymous||reply 228||10/17/2020|
ERIC TRUMP JUST POSTED A photo of biden's home (and stating that biden has another mansion in the hamptons) and how does he afford any of these homes making only 174 thousand a year as a senator and 230 thousand as vice president.... basically the slanderous innuendo is that biden is corrupt, dirty and making millions of dollars illegally..and of course ALL OF HIS SUPPORTERS ON FACEBOOK ON AGREEING WITH ERIC!
YOU KNOW NEVER MIND, he biden is most likely paying a mortgage on these homes, or he made millions from book deals and speaking engagements, like EVERY SINGLE WELL KNOWN POLITICIAN has done before, during or since their time in office!....
how trump and his family are not sued for slander and libel is beyond me! WILLINGLY ON PURPOSE lying and their supporters do damn stupid to figure it out themselves with a few minutes of information seeking on their own!..
|by Anonymous||reply 229||10/17/2020|
Real wealth is generational, millions passed down from one to the next. That's where I see a need for the major taxations.Maybe the 400K professional is laying the seeds and the kids might get a decent inheritance, but it's not "set for life money". It's really hard to explain. I feel like the more I try to explain it, the bigger trench I'm digging. It's tricky because it seems easier to grow up poor and strive to make it, then to grow up upper middle class (I maintain this) and know that it will be hard to match the life that you grew up in. You don't always know if you will get an inheritance so you could be well off in your eldergay years or left with nothing. Add divorces and step moms, etc. I know it doesn't really make sense. Paris Hilton was disinherited from her grandfather after the porn tape leaked and she felt the only way she could relax is if she made a billion - it's like an obsession not for things like people might think but for security. You are always about security and having enough. It's extreme, but my therapist says that this kind of environment of being given a lot and then taken away as punishment or dangled in from of you, can be really damaging emotionally.
|by Anonymous||reply 230||10/17/2020|
[quote] Physicians earn more than 200k, so being a doctor is unethical to you?
That’s a great example. Yes, earning so much more than the people they treat and during those people’s time of need is unethical.
|by Anonymous||reply 231||10/17/2020|
One final thing about this is that my parents cut me off suddenly to build character when I had like $10 in my bank account after going through a tough period. As a result, with the rent was literally due tomorrow, I started doing erotic massages and then became an escort for a year to pay the bills. This was not the fun, onlyfans, instaho kind of escorting but meeting with real clients, having to fly places. There were no drugs or booze involved. I'm dyslexic with numbers and bad with money. Anyway I did learn to save finally and I'm completely on my own. I probably won't get anything and learned life the hard way, so there is my comeuppance that I am sure people wish for.
|by Anonymous||reply 232||10/17/2020|
[quote] That’s a great example. Yes, earning so much more than the people they treat and during those people’s time of need is unethical.
What? Stop seeing doctors then.
|by Anonymous||reply 233||10/17/2020|
DL has a skewed version of "rich."
I grew up super poor - parents were factory workers, high school drop-outs.
I make 250k a year, living in a major (expensive) city. I have a good life, but live somewhat below my means so I can retire without worrying about having to eat cat food.
I take one sensible vacation a year (Pre-covid), usually using air miles from work travel to cover the cost.
I feel very blessed and lucky that many years of very hard work put me here - but I thought years ago that making this much money would make me "rich." The fanciest store I shop at is Nordstrom RACK. I can't speak for what making that much in a small city would be - I imagine you may feel/be rich making that in Philly, Miami or Houston, but you're not "rich" making that in LA, Boston, SF, NYC.
|by Anonymous||reply 234||10/17/2020|
R232 Okay your life story is a total mess. I have no idea how a man with the intelligence to earn 600K and a woman home with nothing to do could fuck up so badly. I am sorry. I am also sorry that after all you went through you still have such a skewed view of reality. If anything perhaps it proves that money does not bring happiness and that the kind of wealth your parents had interfered with their parenting big time. Perhaps you'd have some breakthrough if you acknowledged and accepted that you grew up in a rarified world and that your parents financial success had a hand in your family chaos. The problems you mention and being disinherited etc.. are not the problems of your average person and you keep comparing your family to the Hiltons. That's causing you more issues imo. You need to be comparing to the other 95% of the country because your family has way more in common with the Hiltons than with the Smiths, an average family earning a combined 90K.
|by Anonymous||reply 235||10/18/2020|
Is R230 serious or making fun of the clueless posters?
Yes, it is so hard to grow up and not know if you will have an inheritance or not. The stress of that is so much harder than anything anyone without wealthy parents could know.
I love the trick of sneaking in a definition of rich meaning you inherit so much that you will be as well off as your parents. That knocks the bar for rich much higher.
|by Anonymous||reply 236||10/18/2020|
[quote] I make 250k a year, living in a major (expensive) city. I have a good life, but live somewhat below my means so I can retire without worrying about having to eat cat food.
There's no point fighting over words here but let's face it what you've just descried is indeed a privileged life that most people can never afford to live. From being able to save for retirement to being able to live on major city to having a job that lets you accumulate airmiles. I probably wouldn't call you rich, I'd say well off, upper middle class, living well and depending on how much you are saving for retirement I may call you wealthy if on retirement you have a million in a 401K and a 6 figure salary from pensions and investments. That is the way most upper middle professionals in my extended circle retire. It puts them in a rarified 5% of retirees and yep I'd call it wealth at that point.
Btw I'm also the child of factory workers who didn't finish school. I'm always intrigued by how those of us who move on from that environment process their upbringing. I find that few of us end up 'moderates' but either end up very far left or very far right. I was raised in Liverpool, UK and quite a few guys got out and became raging Tories while others ended up so far left they're still driving around town listening to 60s protest music!! I earn 20% of your salary but I'm okay with it. My parents were happy and we never wanted for anything materially. My dad is retired and fishes and walks his dog twice a day. He's very content and lives on the UK state pension of less than 1K per month.
|by Anonymous||reply 237||10/18/2020|
R232, no one is wishing for comeuppance, but just a sense of reality.
Most people have had the experience of owing rent with $10 in their account. But most do not become prostitutes, so implying that one is the natural consequence of the other is ridiculous. Why you would become a sex worker rather than getting a job in an office or store makes me wonder what else was going on in your psyche.
|by Anonymous||reply 238||10/18/2020|
Some of you aren't even satirically amusing.
|by Anonymous||reply 239||10/18/2020|
[quote] I make 250k a year, living in a major (expensive) city
r234, what do you for a living that you believe justifies making that much money for it?
|by Anonymous||reply 240||10/18/2020|
R238 - My parents cut me off when I had zero money. Usually what would happen is I would call and if I overspent, they would be a safety net. They cut the net when I had nothing in my acct and bills due. I needed quick cash and the rest is history. I have a job that makes about 150K now and a great therapist for the last few years. My life was a mess, but it's getting a lot better. The escorting was a few years back. One thing many can relate to is a tough or strained relationship with your parents and being gay not helping that. I think for me I felt like they weren't around very much, so the money acted as a way to show that they cared and were involved in my life in some way. I'm learning something. I figured the average 2 income family earned about 100-150K a year - each person makes 75K or so. That doesn't seem crazy. It's good to hear these perspectives. In LA, a lot of gay men are also very successful, so I don't see a lot of gays struggling either, but I'm sure there are plenty. We have a huge robust LGBT center that also provides a lot of resources for the community.
|by Anonymous||reply 241||10/18/2020|
Yes. We get the situation. What is galling is that you keep denying that your family was wealthy and then keep telling us stories that demonstrate their wealth.
You do understand that most people cannot call their parents for financial help. In fact many of us start to give our parents financial help in our 20s/30s, since no one can actually live on social security.
That you are worried about "an inheritance" rather than if you will be able to afford caring for your parents if they get seriously sick or injured just demonstrates a lack of connection to the real world.
At least now you are listing families making 100-150k as middle class, rather than trying to convince us that 400k is middle class. You are still high according to most economists, but not as high as you were.
|by Anonymous||reply 242||10/18/2020|
Many of the posts on this thread demonstrate why economic segregation is a bad thing. Look at how disconnected and clueless some of these posts are. "I grew up with a parent who madde $400,000 a year but trust me, we were middle class". WHAT!?
|by Anonymous||reply 243||10/18/2020|
R242 I’ve often thought that’s a good dividing line. Do you financially support your parents or vice versa. It’s a big gap that people don’t take into consideration but where I work it’s pretty stark. The “suits” upstairs mostly had parents who paid for their college, their wedding, their first car, the deposit on their first home and they inherit money. Those of us down on the factory floor are helping out parents, grandparents, aunts etc.. and when someone dies the cost of the funeral is a major stress as the deceased has often not got enough money in their bank account to cover the funeral. My father had to take out loans to bury his father and mother.
R241 It’s shocking to me that you had such a successful father, private schooling, college education paid in full and yet you were seemingly taught so little “street smarts’ and life skills that you had to turn to prostitution because you were still overspending and getting bailed out by your parents as an adult. I can’t relate but reading your posts is like watching an episode on Rich Kids of Calabasas! You start out telling us you had a perfectly normal unremarkable family and you guys were white collar working class (lol by the way) and with each passing post you show the family was more dysfunction and more unusual and more outside the norm. I assume your father was working every hour for that huge salary and your mother was....out spending it? Are you going to tell us now that you had a nanny and housekeeper etc.. Your life is like an Aaron Spelling TV movie!
|by Anonymous||reply 244||10/18/2020|
Yes, OK, I'm seeing everyone's point and I get what your saying. I guess I thought I was pretty street smart, but I think with each post it's reading as more and more tone deaf, which I understand. I've definitely learned from others on DL, shockingly. People don't know that sometimes there is a lot of dysfunction behind the scenes even if there is money. The dad does work 24/7 and often the family is part of the package presented. Moms can get resentful about not having anything of their own that they built or created. Things like abuse, shaming, homophobia, happen all the time in very educated household but I think people will quickly dismiss it if you have money. It's still painful experiences. Some of things my friends have dealt with are truly shocking but you wouldn't know. These Aaron Spieling shows are based on a slice of real life, issues that real families have, just taken to the next level of drama. The OC was extremely relatable in the way they handled damaged characters with money.
I always got the impression on DL that the average poster was mid 40's-mid 50's professionals skewing more towards higher income brackets based on a lot of the topics, responses, and locations of where everyone lives.
|by Anonymous||reply 245||10/18/2020|
I would also guess that the average poster is mid-40s or mid-50s skewing more toward higher income brackets. But that does not mean they were sheltered in the same way you are. Or that they have the same wealth that you did.
400K a year is in the top 2% of earners. That is not a large enough demographic to support this site. 100K or 200K is well above average income.
|by Anonymous||reply 246||10/18/2020|