Supernatural - Part 24

"Inside ‘Supernatural’s’ Evolution From Monster-of-the-Week to Psychological Horror"

A little boy sits alone on the floor of his bedroom. Backlit by a window, he leans over pages of construction paper on which he is obsessively drawing. A platoon of little green Army men guards the pages, and ultimately the boy. As the camera pans around him, he does not speak — in fact he has not spoken at all since his father drowned in a local lake the year before.

This is not the first time the audience, or even the main characters of “Supernatural” are introduced to this boy, as the moment comes a little less than half-way through the third episode of the series. But through the scene setup and shot style, it is the first time the audience gets a glimpse of the boy’s psyche, which will prove to be indispensable as the Winchester brothers work to solve the case of the mysterious lake deaths. It is also a turning point for a first-season show that would eventually run for 15 years.

“I watched Kim [Manners, director] set up this one shot and I thought, ‘That’s the way the show should be shot. This is the look we should be going for,'” executive producer Bob Singer tells Variety.

Creator Eric Kripke originally pitched “Supernatural” to studio Warner Bros. and eventually then-network the WB as a monster-movie-of-the-week drama about two brothers (Dean and Sam Winchester) who travel the backroads of America hunting the things the audience would remember from urban legends. But his main goal in his original pitch document was that “the weekly stories have to be SCARY AS S—.” (And yes, the all-caps was his emphasis.)

While he wanted to make “this series as scary as I can,” he wrote at the time, not all fear comes from an external source. Soon enough, it was the characters’ own trauma and internal struggles that were driving story and adding rich complications to an already well-known genre.

“We set out to make a horror show, and those were the initial stories we wrote. But you learn and adjust as you start watching the film, and a few things conspired to tell us, ‘We have to focus a lot more on the characters than we’re currently doing,’ which is we realized the actors we had,” Kripke tells Variety now. “We saw that they were just both wildly charismatic and emotional and were knocking everything we gave them out of the park. So we were like, ‘We should start giving them harder things to do because they can handle it.'”

The pilot introduced Dean (Jensen Ackles) and Sam’s (Jared Padalecki) trauma briefly, first by revealing that their mother died under mysterious circumstances in a house fire, resulting in their father devoting his life to hunting what killed her — even when it meant dragging his school-aged kids on the road and leaving them alone for days on end in rundown motels. When Sam’s girlfriend dies in a similar way in the present-day portion of the episode, a deeper, psychologically-scarring mythology is hinted at — but the focus of the first few episodes of the series is really more on the “task at hand” of taking out whatever creature is right in front of them — from a Woman in White in the pilot, to a wendigo in the second episode and a ghost in the third.

“When you get hired as staff on a first season show, you get handed the documents they used to sell the show, and that included some of the family secrets and what was going on with Sam. But it’s more like it was a headline that these children had been through a lot because of, we’ll call it, their unconventional life — and the details come when you start to have more space to tell the story,” says Sera Gamble, who penned “Dead in the Water,” the pivotal third episode of the first season with Raelle Tucker, and later went on to run the show in the sixth and seventh seasons.

When breaking the story for “Dead in the Water,” Gamble recalls a conversation with Kripke about how “most young children, especially who have been through something, [are] not just going to open up and give you all of the procedural information you need as an [exposition] dump in the scene.” In discussing how it needed to be harder to draw information out of that child, Gamble says she was inspired to “dig deeper into the psychology of the characters in that script,” which became a baseline for episodes going forward.

“Now I can’t imagine approaching anything with a fantasy element without starting from that place,” she says. “These stories were scary to us because they feel like they tap into something true. Your road as a writer to something that’s going to terrify the audience is through human psychology.”

What each audience member finds scary can vary — and often comes from factors outside a show’s control, from the person’s own upbringing and experiences to the kinds of other stories they consume. In order to to make sure to deliver unique horror elements in each episode, Singer says that from the beginning, “one thing we always said was that the shooting style should be commensurate with what the monster was or what the tone was, so we didn’t feel like we were doing a cookie-cutter horror [show].”

The characters within each of those episodes also had to be unique, even if the type of creature the Winchesters were fighting was something they’d encountered before. “Halfway through Season 1, the first run of the scripts, we realized we were going to run out of monsters in a hurry,” if we didn’t, Singer says. “So if we did a vampire story, each version would not be what you’ve seen before — each version had their own story.”

Often these characters had traumatic backstories of their own, such as Gordon (Sterling K. Brown), a hunter who was on a one-track mission to eradicate the supernatural from Earth after his sister was taken by a vampire when he was just a teenager. (In the most heart-wrenching twist, he later was turned into the thing he hated the most.) Sometimes they even brought out complicated issues for the main characters, such as when Sam fell for Madison (Emmanuelle Vaugier), a werewolf who he was going to have to kill, reigniting the fears he had about losing the women he loved.

And as time went on, those issues and fears began to pile up and often go unresolved. Dean never truly mourned his mother and Sam didn’t fully get to grieve his college girlfriend Jess (Adrianne Palicki) and both had complex feelings about their father and the way they were raised. But then Dean traded his life to save Sam’s, sending the older Winchester to Hell (literally), while the younger one had to carry on alone. Being the true vessels for Michael and Lucifer could have pitted the brothers against each other but ultimately this time it was Sam who went into the pit to Hell, leaving Dean to move on. Sam also lost his soul, got addicted to demon blood and never quite could shake his PTSD from his time with Lucifer (Mark Pellegrino); Dean ended up with PTSD after getting back from war-like Purgatory. Both brothers struggled with wanting to believe in Team Free Will, even when learning they are literally God’s (Rob Benedict) favorite television show and their lives have been manipulated for it. And of course along the way they’ve lost countless other friends and loved ones, from surrogate uncle Bobby (Jim Beaver) to Charlie (Felicia Day) and even their mother (Samantha Smith) again after she was brought back from the dead, only to eventually be killed by Lucifer’s son Jack (Alex Calvert).

“Sam and Dean both went through a ton of trauma. Sam probably had more reminders of his trauma because, obviously Pellegrino remained as Lucifer for many, many years, and Sam had to be facing his No. 1 offender in causing his PTSD,” says Padalecki. “The writers, obviously, always were aware that Sam had been through what he’d been through with Lucifer so they peppered that in [but they] allowed me to take it further if I needed to.”

While Kripke acknowledges that the broadcast format — especially back in 2005 — lent itself well to a slow burn on mythology in the beginning, he also believes characters are more interesting if you “peel back those layers one at a time” as the show goes on. But there is also a more pragmatic reason behind easing the audience into the more psychological horror of “Supernatural” according to Dr. Lynn S. Zubernis, a licensed clinical psychologist, professor and author of several “Supernatural” books, including this year’s “There’ll Be Peace When You Are Done: Actors and Fans Celebrate the Legacy of Supernatural.”

She explains: “One of the reasons that we as humans have so much trouble processing trauma is that we literally store those trauma memories in a different way to store our regular memories and then we can’t get to them and they just end up split off and unprocessed and we don’t want to go there. So we have a lot of defenses against looking at our own trauma. That’s why projecting onto fictional characters is such a great way to do it. But if it came at us all at once, our brains would be like, ‘No, no, no no; we’re not going there.’ You have to go slow in the beginning and then be hooked in and trust the storytelling, in a way, before it goes that deep.”

The same was true for the actors. “Early on, we maybe had to use some techniques or some tricks of the trade to get to a certain point emotionally, but as time went on and the seasons went on, we didn’t have to use those tricks,” says Ackles. “Living with this story — not just living with the characters but living with this story — when things happen, we’re able to really feel it from a character’s perspective because we have lived with it so long and we understand their hurt and their pain and their laughter and their joy.”

Adds Padalecki: “We lost so many characters, I feel like we had a lot of chances to deal with what Sam and Dean would go through with the loss of a character or friend, and so, after the 30th time, it was like, ‘OK I remember what Sam goes through; I remember how he feels; I remember how to be and where I want to be in the storyline as a whole.’ If God forbid there came a situation where they were like, ‘Hey we need to shoot this scene tonight, it’s two pages, it’s you and Dean and Lucifer, then I could have done it — and Mark and Jensen could have done it as well.'”

As the show evolved, the type of horror it delivered week after week would consist different ratios of a combination of jump scares and more of a “disturbing fear that doesn’t leave you — the kind of fear that gives me chills, instead of making me want to scream,” as Zubernis puts it.

“I remember getting a note from Eric that changed the way I wrote the show and kind of cracked the show open for me,” Gamble says. “It was [for] an episode where a demon in the body of a woman has, I want to say, Bobby tied up and they are snarky back and forth but he is her prisoner. And what Eric said was, ‘You’re writing these lines where the demon is very witty and funny and smart, but the thing that is so terrifying about a demon, even as you are entertained by it is that they can see straight into your soul.’ So this thing that they will say to you will be the thing that hurts the most. And so, that was the guiding principle for writing the bad guys: They had to be incredibly insightful to find these guys’ Achilles heels.

“It was also the guiding principle in writing Dean, who was very much going to say the funniest lines in episodes, but he’s never trying to crack you up — he’s actually speaking from a deep well of pain and his way of processing that is to say something hilarious like he’s tough and it doesn’t matter,” Gamble continues.

“We knew the guys had deep trauma and deep pain and were frequently struggling quietly with something, and we always held the monster peril or the danger to a high standard of, ‘We’re not going to make this a joke. This is going to really be life or death.’ So if you have those pieces of the puzzle where the life or death stakes are there, the emotional truth is there, and then you have characters who crack a joke in the face of death, then you can go a lot of places tonally.”

This included expanding the world out to get inside the heads of other core characters — from Castiel’s (Misha Collins) own struggle with how he allowed power to corrupt him, to Jack’s guilt over killing Mary, to diving into memories of Bobby losing his wife and Jody Mills (Kim Rhodes) losing her own family. In some cases, it meant quite literally spending the majority of episodes inside characters’ heads, as well — from Season 2’s “What Is and What Should Never Be,” in which Dean’s psyche is in an “apple pie” alternate reality while he is losing his life to a djnn, to Season 4’s “The Rapture” when Sam is detoxing from demon blood, to Season 7’s “Death’s Door,” which sees a dying Bobby trying to outrun his reaper.

In the latter episode, Gamble reminds, the show was “exploring his core wounds by seeing the memories that are the most important to him.”

“We observed from just watching so many shows in this genre that the Big Bad gets bigger and bigger every season and the war gets more massive and pretty soon you’re a tiny little Lego guy and you’re literally facing God,” she explains. “So part of our job from very early on was to slow down or to avoid running into plot that was so massive that you’re just little specs in a giant galaxy. The way to approach that is always to come from what is personal inside of the story to the boys.”

After all, at the core of the show was always the Winchesters — whether the danger they were in was because of a literal demon in front of them or an internal demon they had yet to conquer.

“If you put them in real jeopardy — believable jeopardy for our world — then the scares will take care of themselves,” Singer says.

I can't recall even one episode of Supernatural that was "scary."

The show has been pretty campy from the very beginning.

Variety also had a countdown of the 15 most scary episodes.

Bloody Mary was fucking terrifying. But it’s down on the list.

Didn’t agree with the list at all.

Looks amazing!!

Not this shitshow again.

Yay!

Starts again this Thursday.

Sam is responsible for everything that's gone wrong in the SPN universe. EVERYTHING!

He should at least sacrifice himself at the end if anyone's gonna die.

Dean will then no longer need to continually fix up his mess.

He and Castiel can finally settle down and live happily ever after.

Shut the fuck up, R9.

You. Are. Stupid.

I just found out that J2 were on the CBS show "The Talk" today (10/07). I missed it but found clips are on the CBS website. I'm going to be completely shady and say that Jared's hair looks... enhanced on the picture they're using of him on the thumbnail. The new hairstyle is flattering but it looks like a lace front or something.

I have it recorded and will watch later.

I had forgotten that I saw a picture of him getting his hair cut!

It looks great!

USA Today interview with Jared and Jensen.

It's on tonight, bitches!!!!

"Supernatural" has enjoyed 15 years of masked and made-up characters roaming the set, but in the final weeks of production, a different type of mask was on the minds of cast and crew.

"It was weird not seeing the faces that you've been looking at for 15 years, because they're covered with a mask," says Jensen Ackles, who plays Dean Winchester — a nomadic hunter of demons and other supernatural beings — on the show.

"It was unique, but I feel like 'Supernatural' has been through a lot. Writers' strikes and network changes and characters dying and characters coming back and families and births and deaths," says Jared Padalecki, who plays Dean's younger brother and fellow hunter, Sam. "'Supernatural' is used to change, so let's embrace it."

One last change looms: "Supernatural's" final seven-episode run begins Thursday on the CW. When the show began, the CW was still the WB Network, and after the series airs its finale the completed 327 episodes will make "Supernatural" the longest-running sci-fi/genre show in the history of American prime-time broadcast television. (There's still a certain doctor to contend with in the U.K.)

How are you both doing during the pandemic?

Padalecki: It was a pretty big change. Going from the show where you're around a hundred-something people every day and you're seeing thousands of people on the weekends with conventions and things — I'd just done a marathon — and then it's like, "Hey. It's you and your wife and your kids and you're at your house. And you can't leave. And you're not filming. And you're not waking up and getting your hair cut and stuff like that."

Ackles: It was weird, the fact that the show got put on pause. I came home. Spent the most time I'd ever spent uninterrupted with my wife and kids. And then they call us back to work and I immediately have to go quarantine for two weeks and then have to go film for four weeks — so six weeks go by, which is the longest time I've ever spent away from them. Living our quarantine Zoom life.

What were your emotions going into filming this last season, given the times we're in?

Padalecki: A lot of the unknown. I felt like, we have been going in to shoot a TV show for 15 years in "normal times," and now it's like "Hey, we have some regulations." There are lanyards that have different colors and only certain people can be around certain people so we can contact trace if, God forbid, somebody contracts COVID[-19]. There's a taped-off entrance and a taped-off exit so we can keep it one-way. All of the food is individually wrapped and there's no browsing at craft services.

Between action and cut, it was business as usual. You're with your director and your cameramen and women and your cinematographer and with your fellow actors and actresses. And you're like "Got it. This is comfortable. This is like a warm blanket."

Ackles: The good news for our industry is that you're capable to be still working and utilizing these protocols to stay inside and stay healthy. I know that Jared and I, we take our cues from the reactions that we get from our crew members, which is essentially our audience. Our audience is the two-dozen people that are onstage with us. The guy holding the mike, the guy behind the camera, the one pulling the focus. We know that if we can make them laugh or make them cry or get some kind of emotion out of them, we're doing something. And that got taken away. So that was interesting. We just have to rely on our instincts and on each other to tell each other, "You hit it, you nailed it, you got it."

I miss shaking hands. I know that sounds weird. I just miss giving someone a bro hug. I know that sounds trivial, but that contact is an important part of what we do on a daily basis in terms of the tone that we set on our set.

The show's research on mythologies is impressive. Was there anything you learned over the years that you'll take with you?

Padalecki: Cold spots, flickering light bulbs, and if that happens, salt circles. I think Jensen and I are like, if a spirit or unwanted visitor decides to come visit, we can just wake up and go, "Bitch, I'm Sam Winchester."

Ackles: You picked the wrong house!

Padalecki: It's like breaking into a Navy SEAL's house or something. We're the Navy SEALs of ghost hunting.

Ackles: I would hate to see what would happen if he and I had worked on a medical procedural. We'd be like, "You got a heart problem? Don't worry. Lay down. I got this!"

Was either of you particularly religious going into the show, and how has that been affected by the show?

Padalecki: I was not a religious person as far as organized religion goes. I'm a very spiritual person. I believe a lot of what religion teaches — you know, be kind to others, honor your elders, work hard, be grateful, sacrifice, remain disciplined and dedicated. I tell this story. I remember meeting an actor one time who was giving me lessons when I was in high school. He said, "Hey, if you're eating an apple in a scene, you're not saying Jared loves apples. You're telling this person's story." On "Supernatural," even though we're one of the only shows in history to have God and Lucifer and angels and demons as a regular part of the show, it never really seemed like a religious show. We weren't trying to proselytize and say "Hey, go to church" or "Hey, don't go to church." It was just, here's a fictional story about these two guys trying to make the world a better place.

Ackles: My grandmother, who's not with us anymore, she was the religious head of our family for the longest time and thought she had a white courtesy phone next to her that went straight up to the man upstairs. When she would watch the show, she would call me and give me her take on it and I often had to remind her that this was a fictional story. We're not trying to tell the story from the Good Book, we're telling a story that is loosely based on a variety of items. Loosely based in witchcraft and loosely based in folklore and loosely based on the Bible. Let's take it all and put it in a big stew pot.

Why do Sam and Dean keep so many secrets from each other? Have you learned any standout secrets about each other as people over the years?

Padalecki: In general, I think when people keep secrets, they think they're doing the other person a favor. I think it's almost altruistic to keep secrets here and there. I think Sam and Dean, for the most part, kept secrets to protect each other, not to hurt each other.

Ackles: If Dean is struggling with something, he doesn't want to tell Sam because he doesn't want Sam to have to struggle with it either. He'd rather struggle with it by himself and not burden his brother with whatever it is he's burdened with, and I think there was a lot of that that played throughout the show. I believe this plays out in society as well. I mean, I don't want to burden other people with my s—. As far as things he and I personally know about each other: There's a ton I know about him that people don't know. But there's a reason why we're good friends and it's because I'm able to keep those secrets.

Padalecki: It's altruism. I don't need to tell people that Jensen cried at "Finding Nemo." I just don't need to tell them that.

Was there a show that you liked growing up that informed what you do now, or that you went back to during "Supernatural's" run for inspiration?

Padalecki: My dad and I liked "Twilight Zone." And the original "Star Trek." William Shatner [as] Captain Kirk, Leonard Nimoy [as] Spock. And I watched a lot of animated shows growing up like "The Simpsons" and they were kids' shows because they were animated but they also had a lot of adult humor. Like "Animaniacs." I think "Twilight Zone" and "Star Trek" are the main ones that have informed what I've been doing for the last 15 ½ years in terms of treating the fantastical as reality, which is what both those shows did.

Ackles: I didn't watch a whole lot of TV growing up. I would say that a lot of what you've seen me do on "Supernatural" was more inspired from film characters that I've watched, like Indiana Jones. In my opinion, as long as you keep Dean Dean, you can put him in any world you want. I can stay true to this character no matter what canvas you paint him on. I love characters like that. You can see Dean sitting at the end of the bar with Norm in "Cheers." But you can also see Dean in "Star Trek."

You guys beat out Harry Potter as the top fandom in pop culture back in 2016. How has your understanding of fandom changed by being on a show as popular as "Supernatural?"

Padalecki: No way! I had absolutely no idea. To be mentioned in the same sentence is really a testament to just how talented our writers and crew are, and just how wonderfully and passionately supportive our fandom is. Behind the scenes, we refer to “our fandom” as “The #SPNFamily,” as they have become a family of their own. They’ve spent countless hours spreading the word about the show and showering us with the love and support that we certainly needed and felt during rough times. Being on the opposite side of that, I’ve realized just how much good people can accomplish together. A lot of them have made best friends, visited various cities, and raised an incredible amount of money and goodwill for assorted charities. It’s been an honor to be a part of it.

Ackles: We beat out Harry Potter? That's crazy! I think that the Harry Potter fans were probably just looking for a more mature show and that was us. I will say that the fandom that this show found, or that found this show, really have become an integral part of the success of this show. They are part of the fabric of what has kept this show alive and running as hard and as fast for 15 years that it has. They are also well-connected, which is really rare for a show that started 15 years ago. It's probably more customary now for fans to get online and have chat rooms. "Supernatural" started before the iPhone was around. We were still shooting on 35mm film.

It seemed that, during many previous seasons, the show could've ended. Now that it has, was your walk into the sunset what you imagined?

Padalecki: Let's just say, our last scene — we don't know if they're alive or dead, but the last scene that I filmed as Sam Winchester, both as Sam and as Jared, I could not be more happy.

For the first several seasons, and that's the nature of TV, it's written to where it could end or it could stay around because you don't really know for a couple of months whether you're going back to work or not. I would say that probably when Mark Pedowitz came into the network and said he believed in the show, that's when I was like, "OK. Let's make the show that we only can do with the support of the head of our network."

Ackles: I feel like this was the version that needed to happen — that needed to exist. There could've been other ways of maybe getting to there, but I think the finality of this is right. I also think that this could've been done a long time ago. To be fair, Eric Kripke, who started the show and created the world, said he had five years and he stuck to it. That could've very easily been the whole run of the show. The fact that he left that door open and we were able to go through it and find another 10 years of story was just a testament to what a great world he built and what great characters he created.

What kept you around for 15 years?

Ackles: There's an old adage in Hollywood, 'You want to see an actor complain, give him a job.' Well, that wasn't going to happen with me. The last thing I wanted to do was sabotage a good gig just to go back and find another one. I was super stoked right off of the bat with the story and this character. It's the kind of character I always loved seeing in movies. The character was modeled after Han Solo and another one of Harrison's [Ford] characters, Indiana Jones. He had some of that flavor in there. Kind of a John McClane. ...

When it comes down to it, why did I stick around all these years? Because I truly loved it.

How in the hell did no one on these threads ever mention that Meg (Rachel Miner) was married to Macaulay Culkin?

I had no idea!

R19 for about 5 minutes.

Are they still?

The actress was diagnosed with MS some time ago.

She was in an episode this year but she was sitting down. ☹️

R21 lol no they're not. Macaulay went on to date Mila Kunis for a time. And i have no idea who Rachel ended up with. But i remember the fans being absolute assholes about how puffy her face was.

Such a cute episode.

I love Mrs. Butters!

First episode that I've liked in a long time.

R21, the actress, Rachel Miner, has MS now, IIRC, and she’s in a wheelchair. She was on the show for a while after she became ill, her face was very round from the steroids and it was very noticeable. At that time she could still stand at least some of the time, although there was a scene where she was found sitting on the bathroom floor and I think she was sitting on the floor the whole time. So maybe she wasn’t doing well by then.

My guess is they were trying to use her because her medical bills must have been horrible, and you have to work so many days a year to get SAG health insurance. She’s a good actress.

‘Supernatural’ Star Jensen Ackles Signs Overall Deal With Warner Bros. TV

Warner Bros. TV Group has signed “Supernatural” star Jensen Ackles to a multi-year overall deal and his newly-launched production company, Chaos Machine.

Ackles, along with his wife and actress Danneel, will develop original TV content for streaming, cable and broadcast platforms. The two have hired former DC creative executive Renee Reiff to serve as head of development.

Terms of the deal were not disclosed. Warner Bros. is the studio behind “Supernatural.”

News of the deal comes ahead of “Supernatural’s” return to The CW Thursday night, where it will kick off its seven-episode farewell. The series’ close was delayed due to production shutdowns caused by the coronavirus pandemic. Ackles has starred on the series for its entire lengthy run, while Danneel has had a recurring role the last three seasons. She is better known for her main role on “One Tree Hill.”

“Warner Bros. has been my home for the better part of two decades. The relationships I have acquired there are some of the finest and most supportive I could have hoped for in this industry,” the Ackles’ said. “Danneel and I are thrilled for the opportunity to continue to grow as artists and now as a producers under the mentorship and guidance of Peter Roth and the whole WBTV team.”

Jensen Ackles is set to join “The Boys” cast next season as Soldier Boy.

That is a really smart deal. You don’t have to be young and pretty to do directing, or worry about aging out of parts. And if they have a hit or two, they’re set.

LMFAO, whatever R26. Almost every "celebrity" out there has their own production company. Very few pay off.

According to the article, "the terms of the deal were not disclosed" which translate as "no money has changed hands yet." They haven't (and probably won't ever) pay Ackles anything. It's just an agreement that Warner Bros gets dibs on any original content they might want. After they turn it down, he's free to pitch it to others. These deals aren't like recording contracts where artist are paid upfront to produce so many albums and tours.

I watched season 15 on TNT this week and I have a couple of questions:

1) What happened to Michael's spell? And that rift he made so they could go to Purgatory to get an ingredient? Did I miss an episode?

2) There's a scene in the "previously ons" with Sam, Dean and Chuck all together. Chuck crushes something in his hand and says "You've freed me" or something. Where is that from? What happened?

Dean and the angel went to purgatory for the flower.

Don’t recall the other scene.

Yesterday’s episode was nice. It was lighthearted then got serious at the end.

Poor Sam, someone always takes his fingernails 😨

Lol R30.

Reminiscent of the Supernatural Christmas episode....

Yup, R31.

I couldn't get through last night's episode. Too many dumb asspulls writing-wise.

Apparently bog standard faeries can just disable the most powerful being to ever exist through smoothies--why do nephilim or archangels matter, then? Several seasons of SPN seem pointless now in terms of stakes. Let's give God and the Darkness smoothies. And the Empty too while we're at it.

Oh there's an interdimensional telescope but the MOL didn't really do anything with it, including even documenting what it was. Makes sense.

Castiel is gone because of Misha's contract but it didn't make sense that Cas would leave Jack with Dean knowing that Dean hasn't forgiven him. Jack is miserable at the start and it's not in character for Cas to just leave under those circumstances. Especially since angels can communicate telepathically through angel radio, there's no reason for him to be gone to "follow up with one of his angel contacts".

Cas not being present in an episode about family dynamics but Jack being there when the latter has spent four times as long with the Winchesters is...a choice. Also, Jack is Cas's son in canon and only affiliated with Sam and Dean for that reason.

Not sure why people on Primetimer are going wild for this one. Maybe because they're almost to a member Jensen/Dean stans and this was a Dean-centric episode. I thought it was annoying, pointless, and very S15 in its writing quality.

R33 you are a nasty woman.

Sorry, I obviously meant to write "the former" with regard to Cas and Jack's relationships with Dean and Sam above, not "the latter."

Thursday's episode drew 1.13 million viewers which is a series high for the year. I get that's better than it has been but, damn, people really don't tune in for this anymore.

Sure, the show has been around for a long time, but the average weekly viewership for ER's last season (Season 15) was 7 million per week and it's series finale pulled in over 16 million viewers, which was the highest rated series finale since the X-Files.

*its* series finale ^^^

Walking Dead World Betond got only 1.5 million viewers for its series premiere,so SPN's ratings are amazing, when put in perspective.

Walking Dead World Betond got only 1.5 million viewers for its series premiere,so SPN's ratings are amazing, when put in perspective.

You cannot compare the ratings of a cable show with one of the network shows in terms of audience.

You cannot compare ratings of a current show with those of the distant past.

The landscape of viewership has changed quite dramatically and to try and compare them is apples and oranges.

What are you talking about, R40?

It really doesn't matter how you compare Supernatural to Walking Dead.

The fact of the matter is that Walking Dead gets way more promotion, it's on a network that has many more viewers, Walking Dead has a much larger budget, and it belongs to a franchise that already has a tremendous viewership base.

From that alone, Walking Dead: World Beyond should have had millions more viewers than Supernatural.

Yet Supernatural got almost as many viewers as WDWB.

Supernatural is the clear WINNER here. Now you know why the CW has kept this show on for so long. The fans are very loyal to the show.

[Quote] Now you know why the CW has kept this show on for so long. The fans are very loyal to the show.

The fans are stupid.

And you're just a hateful beast, R42.

You're the stupid one. And jealous, too.

I love the haters.

They're so twisted and tormented inside about the show's longevity, success and loyal fanbase.

Exactly, R44.

The icing on the cake will be when the show wins an Emmy next year.

Their heads are going to explode!

At least i'm not delusional R43, R44 and R45.

Wait wait wait.... Cas is gone?

He won't be back for the finale?

Does this mean Dean will have to bed Jack instead?

I’ve read that the useless one will NOT be in the last two episodes, so who knows what the truth is.

The two leads have also said that the last few episodes are more like the early season episodes, just them two.

So there are still 4 episodes where the useless one can appear and leave the last two episodes with just Sam and Dean.

Stop calling people “hateful beasts” R43, it’s so childish and inane.

I had R33 on block, gee, I wonder why?

Castiel is irrelevant. It’s been proven for years and years.

There. Is. Nothing. For. Him. To. Do.

Mrs. Butters was a wood nymph. God only knows what powers they have. It seemed she was pretty powerful if she was helping power-up the bunker.

The smoothies incapacitated Jack, to make it easier to kill him. It probably wouldn’t have worked anyway.

Plus, god forbid the plot is all for Dean. You know, the co-lead of the show.

[quote] Stop calling people “hateful beasts” R43, it’s so childish and inane.

You mean like referring to Misha Collins - who has been on the show for the past 11 seasons - "the useless one?"

That kind of childish and inane?

Misha posted a #SPNVOTES watch party on Youtube.

It's amazing who attended.

Bob Singer, Rob Benedict, Jim Beaver, Rachel Miner, Sebastian Roche, Felicia Day, Shoshanna Stern, Jake Abel, David Haydn, Jared/Gen, Alaina Huffman, MJ Hegar, Cory Booker.

How much was it to join?

The money went to MJ Hegar I suppose?

Jensen/Danneel were notably absent.

Maybe they're Republicans, after all.

Now that the show is done, no need to be a pretend-Democrat.

Someone had mentioned Jared's haircut, but I had not seen it before this.

He looks fantastic!!!

Why in the hell didn't he cut his hair sooner??

It makes him look sooooooooo much younger. Finally!!!!

Jensen and the beard were there.

They pretended to make out in the backseat of the Impala.

R26 Don't listen to r27 the deal Jensen and Danneel for their production company Chaos Machine is a pretty good one and kind of a big deal, at least for them. It's not world shattering or completely unique or anything like that, but there was clearly a lot of work and thought put into it.

R33 No one, least of all Dean fans is falling all over themselves praising this past episode. At most it's being fairly well received by everyone, except possibly Cas fans because he wasn't in it, because it was nice relatively light hearted episode and in terms of Dean fans, didn't crap all over Dean's character, which is far more the norm in recent seasons. But no one is going wild for it.

R53 Jensen and Danneel were there, they were there with the 3rd longest running character on the show, besides Dean and Sam, which is to say the Impala. :) They were sitting in Baby's backseat and the only reason they "made out" was because Misha egged them on, saying "Give us a show!" and said show lasted for a few seconds. Julie McMahon who played the angel Anna, got one of the big laughs of when, prior to that, Danneel asked Jensen if he'd ever been in the backseat and Julie piped up "I have!" and Jensen said "Hi Julie, I can't see you but I know it's you" because Dean and Anna had sex on the back seat of the Impala in season 4.

Julie McNiven, not McMahon.

I can't believe that Jensen and Danneel did the Zoom meeting from the Impala. The so-called "GOOD Impala."

The one that Jared wanted.

I guess now that the show is done, Jensen and Danneel's nasty side is coming out, trying to make Jared jealous.

Looks like they weren't as good friends as they tried to make everyone believe.

R58 Why the hell would Jared get the "good Impala", it's far more associated with Jensen's character Dean, rightfully so. Jensen drove it far more often, he even did some minor, relatively easy, driving stunts in it. Back in Season 7 when they asked about the engine the car had in it, Jensen was the only one who knew. Jensen loved the car and has been saying for years he was hoping to get it when the show ended, why would Jared get it? Because he's "the car guy, it's me, I'm the car guy"? Don't care if Jared's a car guy, Jensen is obviously THAT car's guy.

Jensen and Danneel were in the Impala because it was part of the show, it was even a character in the show(had an episode from Baby's point of view) so it was a nice nod. So many other actors from the show were on the Zoom call, of course the Impala should be there too, she was there from the very beginning.

R57 Thanks for the correction. I figured I had something off about her name, but was too lazy to look it up.

[quote] Jensen loved the car and has been saying for years he was hoping to get it when the show ended, why would Jared get it?

Because not only does Jared work on cars (while Jensen does NOT), but Jared has top billing on the show.

He's the STAR, baby.

Jensen and Danneel were definitely grandstanding by Zoom-ing from the Impala, and they were definitely trying to make Jared jealous.

They're probably pissed that Jared got his own show on the CW, while Jensen is joining an existing show and he's not exactly the star.

So Jared WINS.

R60 The Impala did not have the sort of meaning for Jared or his character that it did for Jensen and his character. He didn't deserve it just because he was first on the call sheet, for years now him and Jensen have made the same salary on the show anyway and it's clear Jensen was considered the leader on the set, not Jared. The car means a lot to Jensen and is deeply connected to the character he portrayed on the show.

Are you saying Jared is really that selfish that he would begrudge Jensen something very important to him and deeply connected to a character he's loved portraying for 15 years, just because he, in general, likes old cars? Now THAT would be being an asshole non-friend.

There are more important things than "being number one on the call sheet". The Boys is a hit for Amazon, it's viewership for season 2 grew 89% over season 1, it's the first non-Netflix show to break into Neilsen's weekly top ten streaming ratings, near the top no less(the only two over it are Lucifer and Cobra Kai both of which Netflix actually bought after they started airing on other platforms), it got higher viewership than the last season of Stranger Things or The Mandalorian. It's considered Amazon's first "megahit".

Remember Jeffrey Dean Morgan? He got a short recurring character role on Grey's Anatomy and it boosted his career big time, way more than being John Winchester on SPN did. Jensen has a regular role on The Boys that will probably be roughly the size of Aya Cash's Stormfront this season, which was a major role. He's supposed to be in all 8 episodes. This is a great opportunity for Jensen, in a role very unlike what he's been doing and outside the career ecosystem he's been in with the CW.

I'm not disparaging Jensen or his career, R61. I actually like him.

But in this case, we're talking about THE CAR.

[quote] R60 The Impala did not have the sort of meaning for Jared or his character that it did for Jensen and his character.

[quote] The car means a lot to Jensen and is deeply connected to the character he portrayed on the show.

Again, we're talking about real life. Not the character.

In real life, the car means more to Jared because he's actually a car afficionado. Jensen is not.

For Jensen, it's like a souvenir.

For Jared, it would be something that he would actually work on and admire, and drive, etc.

Jensen already said that he has to hire people to tailor the car to Texas weather.

Jared would probably be able to do it himself.

Bottom line, it was selfish of Jensen to take it. He should have given it to Jared, knowing that it would have meant more to him.

Fine!

Misha gets the car!

- Kripke

R62 Yes we are talking about real people. Jensen spent more time with the car, he drove it more. He always talked about the car. Not Jared, JENSEN. Jensen was really attached to THAT car.

Yes, of course it's partly because of the character he played, Dean Winchester. It's because he played Dean that he spent so much more time with that particular car than Jared did, the car was special to Dean, the car became special to Jensen while playing Dean.

So what if it's a "souvenir"? Souvenirs are remembrances of places and things that are special to you. The show was special to him, his character was special to him, the time he spent playing his character in that car was special to him. It's much better that it's a souvenir, than just something that's a hobby. If Jared wants an old car to work on, he can buy one. But this Impala actually means something special to Jensen.

So again, JENSEN deserved that car. Jensen didn't take anything from Jared.

I don't know where you are getting this crap from anyway. At no point did Jared ever say he wanted the car Jensen has. Besides if Jared actually loves working on cars, etc, then he should love the one he has which would need more work. Jensen got Hero Car 1, I think it's technically called, which was used for driving and needed to be in good running order in order to drive on the roads. Jared got the secondary car which wasn't used as much for the actual driving though it does run and is driveable.

Jensen said he wasn't planning on doing anything big with the car, he's just going to add a working radio, probably air conditioning and seat belts. It's better to have professionals do it if you can afford it to make sure it's done right. He doesn't want to fix the squeak in the door or the wear on the seats.

He was driving it the other day on the grounds of the Family Business Brewery, it was so cool watching that video of him driving past and hearing the same loud purr of the engine you hear in the show, only "in real life". LOL

This thread reads like it was authored by a gaggle of thirteen-year-old girls.

How anyone could stand to watch this trash is beyond me.

"When it comes down to it, why did I stick around all these years? Because I truly loved it."

Oh my sides! The only reason Jensen's stuck around this turd of a show for 15 years is because you haven't had any other offers.

Fuck off, R66 + 6. BEAST!

I re-watched last Thursday's episode, and I have to say that it's quickly becoming a new favorite of mine. I really love Mrs. Butters!

Dean was acting so silly throughout the entire episode, but it was cute. Sammy was cute, too.

I loved how she made all of the holidays for them. And Sam's little birthday party was adorable!

It was a "feel good" episode just like the fans have been saying, and very reminiscent of the old Supernatural episodes.

It was a nice way to return to the show after this long break.

He did have other offers.

Reverse mortgage commercials don't count, R68.

Please tell us about these offers, r68.

And where are YOUR offers, R69/R70??

I don't need any offers, R71.

I didn't fritter away my youth watching shitty television shows with even shittier actors, like [italic]someone[/italic]I could name.

I actually did something with my life, so I'm doing just fine, thank you very much.

[quote] I actually did something with my life, so I'm doing just fine, thank you very much. —Oncology Radiologist

Too bad you're not a proctologist.

Otherwise you could have found what crawled up your own ass!!

Look, I'm being serious. I do hate these actors because they are seriously bad at their job. Now that this shitty show is over I want them to fade into obscurity so genuinely talented actors can get a chance. If some director/ casting agent/ whatever is offering Jensen a job, I want to know so I can ignore any and all of their projects. It's difficult enough to find quality television these days.

Yeah, as comebacks go R73, that was pretty stupid.

PREACH R74! I think this show is lame as hell but the actors are even worse. But the freaky fans take the cake. The fans are all sad, lonely people who fantasize about having someone love them like Dean loves Sam.

I got news for them. It's never gonna happen.

So Jensen said this in an interview:

In addition to your new projects, you’ve also been posting a lot about Black Lives Matter this summer—from handing out supplies at a protest to giving over your social media accounts to Black activists and politicians. What have you learned?

Looking at my kids and being a father, I’m thinking, Wow, what kind of world are they gonna have? So I've started to listen a little more and I've started to want to understand other people's experiences so that I can make a better choice about the actions I take. I've gotten pushback—[in the past] even I've looked at actors using their platform to be political and been like, “You know, nobody needs to hear that. Just do your movies and do your show. You're not a politician.”

But I've now learned that, no, you've been given a platform now with social media. And even before that, when you would give an interview to a publication, there's a voice there that is yours and you get to choose how you use that. And I think that's a responsibility that people need to take seriously. So I’ve tried to do it as inclusively as possible.

Man, Ackles is doing all he can to show he's reformed and my belief is that it's all for the money. He knows that given his mediocre talent and rapidly fading looks no casting agent or director would hire him as a Republican, so he's working overtime to modify his image as an Evangelical Christian Republican.

Not buying it.

I like to come here and read the unhinged rants from the haters.

There obsession is pathological.

The chap that boasts he's a cancer x-ray guy R72 immediately loses the argument when he feels the pressure/need to boast about himself and occupation.

You impressed no-one except yourself.

[quote]You impressed no-one except yourself.

And that was just my intent, R79. I'm a rich oncologist who doesn't give a damn about impressing anyone but myself. We physicians are selfish like that; haven't you heard?

PS: YOUR SHOW STILL SUCKS!

Not this bullshit shitshow again. How many goddam threads do you little girls need to discuss this piece of shit show? Nobody can act on it and they're all way past their prime. The writers won't be able to get work writing greeting card sentiments after this travesty goes off the air.

Take your shit to Tumblr, assholes.

Here's Miss R80, huffing and puffing....

And there's the hideous BEAST R81. She has nothing better to do, than to haunt Supernatural threads, complaining about how the show is so terrible. Someone needs to throw salt on her, and then club her with an iron rod!

Get out of here, R81!!!!

New episode tonight!

Yup!

It’s fascinating to me, R80, how if you hate the show, the actors, et al, why you come to these threads and spew your venom toward people who obviously enjoy the show?

Doesn’t your “doctor mind” know enough to leave these people alone in their “madness”?

Why waste your valuable time here? Are you trying to change minds?

Isn’t the definition of insanity doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results?

Is that why all you haters come to these threads and denigrate everything? To try and convince people to hate the show?

I can’t imagine any other reason for you people to be here.

DL has literally THOUSANDS of threads for any topic under the sun. And again I’ll ask: why are you here? Seems to be you haters are even more obsessed about our show than we actual fans of the show.

It absolutely cracks me up that the most liked comments on this thread on the one trashing this shitty show.

Shitty like your nasty ass, R86.

WATCH YOUR FILTHY MOUTH!

Btw, new episode tonight!

Preview from tonight's show!

It was a serviceable episode.

I liked Jack asking for the kool aid 🤣😂

So maybe Amara will help the guys.

Oh R80, you sound like a petulant 10 year old.

By all means, keep boasting to build yourself up in your own mind. Why the doubt?

Meanwhile we'll all watch a new episode!

[quote]Meanwhile we'll all watch a new episode!

Well, you "all" were practically the only ones who did watch. The ratings were back to their normal shit-show numbers for last night.

So I just read Jared's real-life wife (and equally terrible actor) is going to play his wife on "Walker Texas Ranger." WHY WON'T THESE SHITTY ACTORS GO AWAY?

This is what I heard during every scene of last nights episode that didn't include Sam or Dean: "Blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blahblah. Blah blah blah? Blah blah blahblah"! I saw some shapes on my TV screen, one seemed to be wearing a trench coat, but I was too disinterested to acknowledge any of these secondary characters. I don't care about what Cas or Jack or Billie does at this point - I lost track of what their storyline is. Even seeing Amara back with the boys made me sad because I didn't like her as soon as we were told that she's God's sister. Whatever.

It's looking like the ending of the series won't be worth the time I've invested all these years. That would be such a letdown.

[quote] This is what I heard during every scene of last nights episode that didn't include Sam or Dean: "Blah blah blah blah blah blahblah blahblah. Blah blah blah? Blah blah blahblah"! I saw some shapes on my TV screen, one seemed to be wearing a trench coat, but I was too disinterested to acknowledge any of these secondary characters.

R93, I have to admit that last night's episode was very dialogue heavy.

And then I came across an article about the episode, which was directed by Matt Cohen (young John Winchester), and he explained his motivation.

I'll just post a little bit of what he said:

[quote] ‘Supernatural’ Director Matt Cohen on Setting Up Castiel’s Big News and Bringing ‘a Little Soap Opera to Sci-Fi’

With only a handful of episodes left before The CW’s long-running demon-hunting drama “Supernatural” signs off for good, every line of dialogue, every frame of footage and every decision — from guest star casting to guest director hiring — counts. Matt Cohen, who got his start on the show playing young John Winchester in 2008, admits he was certainly feeling the weight of that responsibility when he stepped on set to direct “Gimme Shelter,” the 15th episode of the final season.

“There was all the pressure, but I just wanted to do the homework and I tried to do the homework as much as possible,” Cohen tells Variety. “I wanted to give the audience enough to satisfy them a little bit, but also enough to dissatisfy them so they come back next week. That’s what I was aiming for.”

“Gimme Shelter,” which was penned by staff writer Davy Perez, was a dialogue-heavy episode that featured two seemingly distinct stories, for which Cohen focused on the common emotional tonality. Half of the episode featured Dean (Jensen Ackles) and Sam (Jared Padalecki) reconnecting with God’s sister Amara (Emily Swallow), at first because they need her to get to God, who is busy destroying the other universes. But their time with her delivers the all-important revelations that she is not actually the first born, but God’s twin (“creation and destruction, light and dark, balance”), as well as why she really brought the Winchesters’ mother Mary (Samantha Smith) back from the dead a few years earlier. The other half of the episode focused on Castiel (Misha Collins) and Jack (Alex Calvert) on the case of deaths and disappearances of people within a religious group.

“I wanted the scenes to bounce off of each other and you’re battling two different predicaments, but very similar. Each of the four characters in these scenes — Cass, Jack, Amara and Dean — are fighting for their own thing for their own reason, therefore living their own truth in the eyes of God,” Cohen says.

In order to truly sell the various levels of emotions in the episode, Cohen notes he didn’t want to rely on fancy camerawork or elaborate setups, but instead focus on tight closeups of the actors’ faces.

“I had come off working on a soap opera a few years ago and there is something in me that soap operas do very well, and it can be really irritating to the actors a lot of the time [but] the camera will just sit on your face until your face sells the moment, and that’s your cut point,” he explains. “I tried to bring a little soap opera to the sci-fi experience.”

For those of you who think that Jensen is too old to play a superhero, here's some news for you.

Adrianne Palicki (Sam's girlfriend Jess in the Supernatural pilot episode) was tapped by NBC to be the lead in a new Wonder Woman series. And she's close to Jensen's age.

So suck on that, haters!!

If i miss an episode I can rely on the alleged haters to recount the episode in detail so I can catch up.

Think on that. The people that supposedly hate the show can give you a breakdown in detail, almost scene by scene, what you missed.

They fool nobody.

Kripke came out and said that they will not be following the comic and he has no plan to recreate the scene where Homelander and Soldier Boy have sex.

Why won’t you go away, R92???

You're an idiot, R95. That chick is 37 years old, and in less than five months Jensen will be 43. That's ANCIENT in Hollywood Years. No one starts a film career at that age. Plus, Jensen look older than he is.

You SPN Fraus are just too much.

"First Look: Meet the New (Young) Sam and Dean"

Young Sam and Dean are sporting a new look on Supernatural.

In next Thursday’s episode (The CW, 8/7c), the brothers’ younger alter egos will be played by two fresh faces as flashbacks explore a hunt from the Winchesters’ childhood.

In the attached gallery, The Haunting of Hill House‘s Paxton Singleton takes on the role of amulet-sporting Young Dean, who has previously been portrayed at different ages by Ridge Canipe, Dylan Everett and Brock Kelly, among others. Meanwhile, When Calls the Heart‘s Christian Michael Cooper is Young Sam, who has most notably been brought to life by Colin Ford in six installments.

The episode finds Sam and Dean “asked to investigate the murder of a childhood friend, calling them back to a motel from their past and perplexing the brothers with a case they thought was solved a long time ago,” per the official synopsis.

Flashbacks to the brothers’ past were “something we used to do a lot,” co-showrunner Andrew Dabb previously told TVLine, “and we kind of moved away from it largely because the actors who we’d come to rely on to play Young Sam and Young Dean got too old. Colin Ford, right now, is older than Jared Padalecki was when the show started, I think.”

But as the series was ramping up for its swan song, Dabb put out a call to the writing staff. “Meghan Fitzmartin, one of the writers on the show, came in with an idea, and it worked for us,” Dabb shared. “It worked not only as a case right now, but also as something that informed the journey Sam and Dean have taken, where they started as kids, how they kind of came together and then how that has [led up] to the point that they are, emotionally, when the episode airs. So it ended up being a really good reflection of our guys now, telling a story about our guys then, which, to me, are always the best versions of those types of flashback stories.”

That little boy that is playing young Sam is beautiful.

Except that Sam doesn’t have a butt chin. 🤔🤔

Young Dean is the kid who played Steven from Haunting Of Hill House.

20 second preview of this Thursday's episode.

Looks good!

I just watched an episode from season four "In the Beginning" where Dean is sent back in time and meets young John Winchester, Mary Winchester, and Samuel Campbell.

The beginning of the episode is hilarious because it seems like Dean is hitting on a very hot John Winchester (played by Matt Cohen). Young John seems perplexed by how Dean is acting towards him, and it's hilarious.

I could totally write FanFic for that episode, where I would make young John respond positively to what he thinks are Dean's advances on him. Dean would freak out! Rofl.

Every time I see jensen ackles, I imagine him taking shit in the toilet. That's so weird.

New episode tonight!

Anyone watching?

it's the Shtriga monster again.

No, R106, no.

Oh YES, R107.

This is the best show on television!

Doesn't matter what you think.

Moron Supernatural Frau @108: The Final Presidential Debate was tonight. Even less people than normal will be watching your shitty show.

I saw the episode.

It was sort of the shtriga. It was some funky old lady.

The last of the urban legends on this show.

The last 3 are gonna be Chuck and the world ending.

I fell asleep watching the episode.

Did I miss anything?

‘Supernatural’ Showrunners And Stars Talk “Fantastic” Series Finale, Pain & Pride In Moving On – PaleyFest New York

At PaleyFest New York, the showrunners and stars of the CW’s Supernatural gathered to reflect on the series’ 15-season run, teasing what’s to come in a finale that’s now less than a month away.

During the virtual panel moderated by TV Guide’s Damian Holbrook, actors Jared Padalecki and Jensen Ackles shared their feelings about where their characters end up, assuring Supernatural fans across the world that the best is yet to come.

“I will say that the series finale is my favorite episode of all time…During the filming of that, there was just something in the air,” Padalecki said. “[This story has] been a big part of my life, and I’d be lying if I tried to posit that I hadn’t thought many times about how I want this to end up. I guess I could have seen it ending a slew of different ways, but now that it’s all said and done, I couldn’t be more pleased with the way it turned out.”

From Ackles’ perspective, the finale written for Supernatural was “a fantastic way” for the show to wrap up. “You know, this is not a secret: I had my reservations when I first heard the idea. [But] I just realized, I’m so close to this story, and so close to these characters that maybe I had my own ideas of how it was going to look,” the actor said. “I didn’t, necessarily, and the more that I thought about it, it’s interesting to think that I kept coming back to what ended up happening.”

Rounding out the panel, alongside actors Misha Collins and Alexander Calvert, were co-showrunners Robert Singer and Andrew Dabb, who gave little away about the actual story that will be told in the finale. Referring to it as an “intimate episode” centered on brothers Sam and Dean Winchester, Singer instead echoed comments he’d made in a recent interview with Deadline.

While Supernatural was initially intended to come to a close in May, the show was forced to go on hiatus in March, after the COVID-19 pandemic shut down production across North America. And while the shutdown left the EPs with ample time to think through the show’s final two episodes—which had not yet been shot—the scripts for them didn’t change much at all during this period. “We had these scripts, as we did for 15 years, pretty much well in advance. We were happy with them, and we were just waiting to be ready to shoot,” Singer said. “We knew the challenge we had in front of us, but I think once we arrived at where we were going to go, we were just going full speed ahead.”

Filmed in August and September, the final two episodes were tweaked in small ways, due to the constraints imposed on production by COVID safety protocols. Most notably, the precautions resulted in a reduced number of background actors on set, and an extra day of filming on the finale. But in general, the influence of the pandemic on Supernatural isn’t something viewers will feel.

In reality, those who felt it most acutely were the actors on set, who joked that they felt like lepers in a strange new world of social distancing. “It certainly was an adjustment, and it’s certainly socially debilitating, because you can’t see the faces of the people that you’re working with anymore. You can’t have that social interaction that I think really sets the tone on set,” Ackles said. “Luckily, there’s such a bond with this particular set that we were able to adjust fairly well.”

While Padalecki shared the discomfort of his co-star, he also felt like the show’s cast and crew handled a tricky final period of shooting in the most responsible way possible. “It seemed like [they] all took further precautions than they were required to,” he said, “and it felt like it went really smoothly.”

A final impact of the pandemic manifested in the way Supernatural’s cast and crew mourned the end of their show. “It’s been an unusual conclusion to a series because we have been drawing it out because of the pandemic. For me, I feel like I did my mourning leading up to when we had to stop production, and it’s been sad and hard,” Collins said. “I’m grateful for this chapter in my life, but I’m very much sad to be moving on from it.”

As much as it was sad to say goodbye to the long-running series, pride and joy were also predominant emotions. “There were a lot of tears leading up to coming back to film what we knew would be the final two episodes of the series. [But] we finished filming a week ago today, and I’ve been smiling a lot,” Padalecki said. “I’ve been really happy, man. I’ve been really proud.”

“The very final moment, the very final day, it was happy tears,” added Ackles, “that feeling you get when you know you’ve done something that you’ll be proud of for the rest of your life.”

As the 50-minute panel wound down, the stars of Supernatural shared their takeaways from their years with the show. For Collins, one was “the hundreds of hours of Warner Bros. money that was wasted” as the cast laughed together on set. “The friendship and the camaraderie that we built over those years is deeply meaningful,” he said. “[There’s] no way the show would’ve lasted if that laughter hadn’t carried us through.”

For Ackles, the takeaway was “lifelong lessons and lifelong friends,” while for Calvert, it was “knowing how many people on the show cared, and how many people cared worldwide.”

But for Padalecki, the question of takeaways was less easy to answer. “That’s difficult to really quantify right now. I legitimately have a difficult time trying to parse out what part of the last 15 and a half years was Jared’s life and experiences, and what part was Sam’s,” the actor said. “I’ve had a lot of formative experiences, and I’ve grown a lot, and I think I owe a lot of that to Supernatural. I’m just really grateful.”

The panel closed with Supernatural’s co-showrunners and stars delivering their final message to fans of the show, who had stuck with it over the course of so much time. “As I said at the 200th [episode celebration], ‘Every time I land in Vancouver, I feel like I’m coming home.’ And I think the fans were a big part of that,” a visibly emotional Singer said. “A lot of the energy that went into this show is really motivated by the fans. I think we all felt it, and felt like we wanted to do the best job possible, for as long as possible, because of the fans.”

Added Collins: “Family is forever, and I hope that when the show ends, this fandom and this family carries on.”

Created by Eric Kripke, Supernatural centers on the Winchesters, hunters of demons, monsters and ghosts, who strive to make the world a better place. Holding two records—as both The CW’s longest-running series, and the longest-running fantasy series in the history of American television—it will come to a close on November 19.

[quote] Jared Padalecki says Supernatural series finale is 'my favorite episode of all-time'

With four episodes left, could Supernatural's best still be yet to come?

On Friday, PaleyFest released a final panel with Supernatural co-showrunners Robert Singer and Andrew Dabb, and with actors Jensen Ackles, Jared Padalecki, Misha Collins, and Alexander Calvert. And it didn't take long for the conversation to touch on the show's upcoming ending.

As for how the actors feel now that they've wrapped filming, Padalecki says he "couldn't be more pleased with the way it turned out." Later in the conversation, he took things a step further. When asked for a favorite moment from his 15 years on the show he said, "The series finale is my favorite episode of all-time."

Ackles agreed, though he noted a specific moment in the final hour that he said might earn his number one spot. "It's a fantastic way for the show to wrap up," Ackles says, admitting he had his reservations. "The more that I thought about it, the more that I mulled over all the different possibilities of what could happen, and maybe what should happen, it's interesting to think that I kept coming back to what ended up happening."

According to Singer, the series finale will be an "intimate episode" that he says is really about Sam and Dean.

Woohoo!

The ending is just Sam and Dean!!

🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳🥳

(I hope.)

If Jared is happy with the ending, then I'm happy with the ending.

The guys didn't sound too thrilled with how it was playing out in March, so maybe the writers made some adjustments, and it sounds like Sam and Dean will get the ending they had hoped for.

The current showrunner Andrew Dabb is pretty mediocre. He's no visionary and you can see in this final season there have been sub par and unnecessary episodes. Episode 16 with the young Winchesters was pointless and the case a bit rubbish. A think there were bigger fish to fry. Kripke would have had the season all plotted out but Dabb can't really see beyond one or two episodes. The season has had a lot of pointless stuff.

I miss that leather jacket that Dean wore for four seasons before it was stolen. It matched Dean's bad boy way and gave him more personality as his favorite outfit.

The fourth season is my favorite. The darkest, with the best photography, new charismatic characters like Castiel, good conflicts, best action scenes.

After the fifth Supernatural he lost his focus. Before everything was more balanced, comedy, humor, land and action at the right time. Then there started to be too much comedy, the actors looked tired, Sam became a robot, there was nothing like alternative reality that should be science fiction not terror in the series.

Awful awful awful episode. Those kids looked nothing like Sam and Dean, and their dialogue was ridiculous. Dean wouldn't have spoken to Sam that way. What a waste of the last few episodes.

Only 924,000 people watched.

You're really a hateful devil, R122.

Why don't you join the other beasts in hell?

SPN has had inconsistent seasons post the first five.

I think I liked season 9(falling angels) and season 11(Amara) most after the Kripke years.

This season has been very patchy.

The show would have really struggled with the introduction of Jack in these latter years.

Unless the last four knock it out of the park, I'd say the season will rank in the bottom tier of seasons somewhere.

I say that as a fan of the series.

Padalecki's thinning, combed-straight-back hair did nothing but cause a glare on his forehead in this episode. Ackles isn't ageing well but he's not completely unattractive yet, however Padalecki looks like total shit. Plus, JFC he's just such a terrible terrible actor!

Jensen is a very handsome 40 something.

Anyone who says he looks awful is either bullshitting or prefers sub 18 year old twinks.

Like R125 said, Jensen isn't aging well at all. He looks haggard and drawn without all that fancy lighting and camera work. It's sad to me because he was soooooo beautiful when he was younger. He couldn't act (and still can't) and I didn't like his politics and religion, but he was undeniably hot. He never had much of a body but his face was beautiful. Now he just looks someone okay looking dad.

Getting old is a bitch for all of us.

Isn't it amazing that someone who has turned 40 doesn't still look like they are 24.

Datalounge is full of complete morons.

I've watched a grand total of 15 minutes of this show, but I'm curious, r121. How did Dean talk to Sam and how *should* Dean talk to Sam?

Does Ackles still growl his lines?

The OP is a Trump voter.

Use Ignore-dar.

You're a filthy liar R131, and you're just saying that to get this thread closed.

Eat shit, you monstrous ghoul.

R123, they are right. Less than a million viewers this week. Why the hate? Facts are facts. I watched live but there was football and the debate going on at the same time.

Sadly this show should have ended a long time ago, while they still had a few million viewers.

Jensen and Jared got complacent by living in their little Vancouver bubble.

Dean has always, up to a point, been mean to Sam. When they were younger, I’m sure Dean resented Sam because he had to take care of him. From the time when Sam was 6 months old, he’s been Deans responsibility. He loses patience with him.

As adults, Dean is still trying to protect Sam, hence Deans hesitation to tell him about Jack.

I think Sam way overreacted, though.

Everything in SPN world is Sam's fault.

EVERYTHING!

No wonder Dean is mean to him.

For R131!!!!!!!

And for R125!!!!

Didn't anyone notice two returning guest actors in the Gimme Shelter episode?

One was the mom from the "Plush" episode, and the other was Dr. Sexy from the "Changing Channels" episode.

The mom played a thief in Gimme Shelter, and Dr. Sexy played the Pastor.

I love seeing returnees playing different characters. Plus, Dr. Sexy is totally sexy.

From the way things are, it looks like Billie is executing a form of power grab - she is manipulating the pieces of the game in such a way that all the other very powerful characters either die in confrontation one against each other (God, Amara, and Jack), or fall back asleep (the Empty), finally leaving only her, Billie, in control of the universe.

And I would love to see a direct confrontation between Amara and Billie, if only because of how powerful the two are. Billie against God would be interesting, too.

By the way, I put "Billie" and "Amara" in the Twitter search bar to see if anyone there had the same expectations as me, but, I swear to God, more than half of the comments are from lesbians hoping obsessively that Billie and Amara hook up and become a couple! Twitter is hot trash and dykes are fucking weird.

This episode was pretty good.

But Chuck killing Jack? Again?

I don't really understand the point of that.

And I don't know where people are getting lesbian vibes from either Billie or Amara.

Amara has always had a thing for Dean, and Billie once had a fling with Crowley (implied in the final episode of season 11).

In the preview for next week's episode, it seems Billie is going to save Jack. And I think he's going to sacrifice himself, to take her down, instead of Chuck.

good. them old right wing phobic 2 stars gotta go..

It was a moving episode.

Dean is completely devoted to Sam.

That scene was really emotional. I can’t recall the last time I got emotional as well.

Poor Amara. I felt bad for her. Hate that Dean lied to her.

"Supernatural's Misha Collins Previews Fight to Save Jack, Talks 'Intense' Last Day on Set and Cas' 'Poignant' Ending"

With just four episodes of Supernatural left to air, the angel who made a memorably dramatic entrance on the series 12 years ago is almost at the end of his story. But before Castiel and the Winchesters sign off, Cas sets out this week to save his “son” Jack from having to sacrifice himself in the battle against God.

Below, his portrayer Misha Collins previews this Thursday’s episode, and shares his feelings about the “very meaningful, very poignant” conclusion of Cas’ journey. The actor also reveals the one regret he has about his character’s arc.

Cas is desperate to find another solution still. The prophecy is that Jack will be the one to bring down God, but it’ll mean the ultimate sacrifice for him, and Cas is just desperate to find another solution.

[quote] TVLINE | Given his attachment to Jack, and the fact that Dean and Sam are on such opposite sides on this issue, is that worrying for Cas’ relationship with the brothers? Does it become a source of conflict?

It’s a little bit Machiavellian what’s going on right now, and everybody is trying to play the chess game of playing their cards right and, frankly, manipulating the rest of the gang into getting their way. But I can say that fences will be mended. It’s not driving a wedge that can’t be overcome between us. I think we’ve kind of been in similar situations before, where someone’s arguing, “Look, this is the only way. I know it’s terrible,” and the other is saying, “There has to be another way. We can’t do this.” It’s kind of a perennial debate that goes on in the Supernatural universe.

[quote] TVLINE | So much of the season is about the potential destruction of God. How is Cas, as an angel, processing that and the potential death of his father, in a way?

It’s interesting. I think that, on an emotional level, Cas made peace with losing his father a long time ago. I think Cas no longer sees God as a father figure. I think he sees him as this very sullied, selfish entity. It’s yet another indication of the tectonic shift that’s happened with Castiel over the years, where he went from full allegiance to the angels and a longing for God as his father to allegiance only to humanity and to Sam and Dean and really feeling like he’s a part of a different team now.

[quote] TVLINE | I talked to Jared Padalecki and Jensen Ackles about their last day of shooting and how they felt during those final moments. What was that experience like for you on your final day of filming?

It was super emotional. Just the way the shooting days lined up, I happened to be shooting Castiel’s last scene in the show at the very end of the day on my very last day of shooting. So my last scene shot was Castiel’s last scene in the series. And that was really potent and emotional. There were a lot of tears all around. I was crying, Cas was crying, the crew was crying. It was really intense. I don’t think I’ll ever have another character ending like that one, for sure. It was very meaningful, very poignant.

[quote] TVLINE | How do you feel about how Cas’ journey wrapped up? Was it in line with expectations that you had for the character’s arc?

Yeah, it was. I’m really happy with Cas’ ending. It’s sad, but it is kind of exactly what I would have hoped for.

TVLINE | You’ve probably spent more time shooting with Jensen and Jared than any other actor that’s been on the show. What are you going to miss about working with them?

Nothing. Laughs Look, I’m gonna miss the laughter. We laughed our asses off. Day after day, month after month, year after year, we laughed and laughed. Maybe if I wind up on the set of some genuinely slapstick comedy at some point, I might have something similar. But it was a mirthful experience. I’m still talking to them all the time. I miss them. They’re dear friends, and will always be dear friends. I don’t think I’m ever going to try to replicate this on-set experience again. I think that’s foolhardy. But it will always be, as far as I’m concerned, kind of the holy grail for me. This was a really lovely place to work.

[quote] TVLINE | What’s next for you after Supernatural? I know you do a lot of really wonderful and important work outside of the show in terms of political activism. Do you see more TV in your future? Would you like to find a way to blend those two worlds together?

That’s funny that you should ask that because, yes, I’ve been ruminating on an idea that would blend those two worlds together. I am interested in the political sphere. I’m completely subsumed in politics right now until the election and likely for many days after the election. I have been interviewing a lot of senators and former presidential candidates and folding Jared and Jensen into some of those interviews as well. I’m hopefully going to be interviewing Ashley Biden and Amy Klobuchar on Thursday, and, hopefully, the boys are going to be joining that as well. It’s been an interesting kind of mash-up of this fandom and the political universe, and it’s been really cool to see that like the Biden campaign is really fired up about the Supernatural fandom and how engaged they are and how they feel like it’s worth having us interview the likes of Cory Booker and Andrew Yang and Amy Klobuchar and all of these sort of luminaries from the party, because they see how engaged this audience is, which translates to votes and caring about what happens in the country. But I don’t know what I’m doing next.

[quote] TVLINE | It’s a big commitment to do a TV series, especially after you’ve just done one for so many seasons. Would you want to commit to another show?

My inclination is to take a little break, but that’s partly also easy to say because nobody’s offered me a TV show. I haven’t been trying to make that happen either. At the moment, I’m trying to take a little bit of a break. I certainly wanted to give myself until after the election to dive into something. I did shoot a small role in an Amazon movie a few weeks ago, and it was my first time on a set that wasn’t Supernatural in a long time, and it was during the time of COVID, which is just such an interesting experience. I’m dipping my toes back in those waters, for sure.

[quote] TVLINE | Finally, is there anything you didn’t get to do as Cas that you really wanted to do?

The only real regret that I have over the years from Castiel is he got to be a human for a little while, but I just wished he played on that playground for a little longer. I wish that Castiel had gotten to experience being a human for longer, because it felt like that was a really rich well to draw from, and we kind of missed out on a little bit there. He also never drove the Impala, which is kind of a bummer. I’m going to have to go down to Jensen’s and drive around down there.

Ratings are down from last week's 925,000 to 900,000. I thought they'd get a bump this week since last week was the debate. Practically no one is watching this anymore. I wonder if the series finale will get a boost? For a show, even a crappy show, to last this long it seems as though its fans would be tuning in to the final episodes.

R1;5, I follow a woman that’s been an ardent fan of the show for years. I was surprised to see a tweet from her today saying she was forcing herself to watch it. I think fans are not happy with the writing, which they think is out of character for the show.

r146 On Reddit, all die-hard fans do is complain about the fact that Supernatural returned from the covid-hiatus with a lot of "non-arch" episodes. As this is the last season and there were fewer than 10 episodes to wrap it up, fans wanted an immediate return to the main storyline, because, among other things, it seemed illogical that, with the fate of the universe at stake, and with so much to be resolved involving entities as powerful as God, Amara and Death, "the boys" were still wasting time on nymphs and human serial killers.

The quality of writing, however, has not declined - it's just that fans measure the show's artistry by how well it meets their momentary needs. If the show gives fans what they want (for example, arch episodes), then the writing is good. If not - if, for example, many monster-of-the-week episodes follow one after the other - then this is proof that the quality has dropped.

Proof of this is the IMDB ratings of the last three episodes - episodes 14, 15 and 16. The first two have ratings of 7.8 and 7.4, respectively, while the last, which put the main storyline back on track, is rated 9.2, the highest of the whole season.

Furthermore, criticism from the fans towards the show is far from a new trend. The show itself has sometimes placed this attitude of the fans on a spotlight in its moments of meta-commentary.

The first of these attacks, I believe, was in the episode The Monster at the End of This Book, when the Winchesters discover that their hunting life is the subject of some novel series of dubious popularity. Dean says of fans of the series:

[quote] DEAN: Check it out. There’s actually fans. There’s not many of them, but still. ... Although for fans, they sure do complain a lot. Listen to this - Simpatico says "the demon story line is trite, clichéd, and overall craptastic." Yeah, well, screw you, Simpatico. We lived it.

That happened way back in season 4, which fans love to put on a pedestal nowadays, saying that the first five seasons are classic, something of a much higher quality than the rest of the series (something I disagree with myself).

I also disagree with what r145 said. Supernatural's ratings are among the highest on The CW, and this is surprising precisely due to the fact that this is season number 15. Supernatural has beaten younger shows such as Supergirl and Batwoman by far, with the latter flopping hard despite the fact that there was only one season and the first season is almost always the one with the best ratings.

[Quote] Supernatural has beaten younger shows such as Supergirl and Batwoman by far, with the latter flopping hard despite the fact that there was only one season and the first season is almost always the one with the best ratings.

Wrong. As always.

Kathryn Newton (Claire Novak) has a new movie out.

It's called "Freaky" and she is the star, along with Vince Vaughn.

Out of all the actors and actresses who have appeared on Supernatural, I cannot believe that she's the one who made it big.

I hated her character!!!! Claire was so fucking annoying.

And yet she attended the Academy Awards in 2019 and she has a new movie this year. Crazy!

r148

R150 those are live ratings. Which the CW doesn't give a shit about. Otherwise SPN would have been cancelled eons ago.

And Batwoman shouldn't even have begun. A series with a star who quits after season 1! What kind of train wreck is that? And you honestly think it's going to get better after that? LOL.

[Quote] And Batwoman shouldn't even have begun. A series with a star who quits after season 1! What kind of train wreck is that? And you honestly think it's going to get better after that? LOL.

Says who? You?? The Arrowverse isn't going anywhere. Ruby didn't quit, she was fired. And i don't know what the second season will be like because it hasn't come out yet.

[quote]Says who? You?? The Arrowverse isn't going anywhere

Except that I wasn't talking about the Arrowverse, I was talking about Batwoman only. You're not even confident enough to say "Batwoman isn't going anywhere", because you know what a poor situation your dear show is in, so you do that, you hide behind the Arrowverse as a whole.

[quote]Ruby didn't quit, she was fired.

LOL, am I supposed to think this means the show is in good shape??

[quote]SPN would have been cancelled eons ago.

On any other network, it [italic]would[/italic] have been cancelled eons ago. As in mid first season.

The notion that ratings don't matter is absurd, for any television show. Yeah, Supernatural may be in the top five or so of CW shows, but so what? That's like bragging because you're in the top five percent of your special ed class.

[Quote] I was talking about Batwoman only. You're not even confident enough to say "Batwoman isn't going anywhere", because you know what a poor situation your dear show is in, so you do that, you hide behind the Arrowverse as a whole.

Because a show about a lesbian superhero is just the worst? I don't have to say it isn't going anywhere because Batwoman is already getting a season 2. And no Arrowverse show has been cancelled before. You just sound bitter because SPN is finally ending and you won't get to drool over 2 straight dudes who don't give a shit about you.

[Quote] LOL, am I supposed to think this means the show is in good shape??

The CW doesn't give a shit what you think.

[Quote] The notion that ratings don't matter is absurd, for any television show. Yeah, Supernatural may be in the top five or so of CW shows, but so what? That's like bragging because you're in the top five percent of your special ed class.

I said live ratings. They care about online views/streaming. Which is what every network should be doing. And i think on any other network SPN would have got at least 2 seasons before the writers strike happened.

[quote]That scene was really emotional. I can’t recall the last time I got emotional as well.

Jesus Fucking Christ 🙄

Awful episode.

LOL, Amara was reading Norwegian Wood by Haruki Murakami.

Was that supposed to show how edgy and literarily "woke" the writers are? If so, massive fail.

And on what planet would Dean ever pulled a gun on Sam? Absolutely ridiculous.

People kept telling me this final season sucked and they sure weren't lying.

I love that as soon as r148/r156 appears, her old comments suddenly get a bunch of likes. Total coincidence, I'm sure.

R159 i don't see any likes for my comment at R156. And i don't know why you're so shocked that anyone could agree with me. SPN is not popular on here.

r160 Yeah, it's almost like you're waiting it out because you got noticed.

R161 whatever you need to tell yourself 🤣

[quote] I follow a woman that’s been an ardent fan of the show for years. I was surprised to see a tweet from her today saying she was forcing herself to watch it. I think fans are not happy with the writing, which they think is out of character for the show

[quote] Amara was reading Norwegian Wood by Haruki Murakami.

[quote] Was that supposed to show how edgy and literarily "woke" the writers are? If so, massive fail.

I hate to say this, but as soon as the show was taken over by Andrew Dabb, Meredith Glynn, Pablito Tancinco, and Davy Perez, the writing turned to shit.

Dabb took over as Showrunner from Season 12 - Season 15, and you can tell that the show really took a turn for the worse.

And yes, it became much more WOKE.

I remember in the Mint Condition episode, there was a scene where Dean wanted to say the word "bitch," but the writers instead made him say "does it start with a 'B' and rhyme with witch?"

I thought that was so fucking stupid and out of character.

And then in this most recent episode, Dean was scolded by Sam for looking at his phone while driving. I mean, the writers actually made a point of having the brothers do a mini-PSA about texting and/or using the phone while driving. I really fucking hated that.

Now you understand why Jared and Jensen decided to call it quits. Andrew Dabb sunk the show.

SPN Phone Banking to save Democracy!

Misha Collins, Gen Padalecki, Rob Benedict, Jake Abel, Shoshana Stern, Rachel Miner, Sebastian Roche, and Osric Chau.

Go, team!

I can always count of the haters to recap each new episode scene for scene.

The watch religiously. They are more devoted than the fans.

Good to read.

R149 Freaky looks like fun. Guess it's a good thing that Wayward Sisters spin-off didn't take off.

[quote] Freaky looks like fun. Guess it's a good thing that Wayward Sisters spin-off didn't take off.

I wonder if seeing Kathryn's movie career take off, Jared and Jensen are likewise wondering if they could have had bigger movie careers if they had left Supernatural earlier?

Still, the regular paycheck from Supernatural didn't hurt either of their families, so they should still be grateful for the show.

Not only that, they were also very happy for 15 years in the same job. Lots of fun, laughs, and nice perks.

They were very lucky to have all of that, so movie career or not, they both had it good for a very long time.

Dean has been violent to Sam before. Lots of times, in fact.

The.Newton character was positively loathsome and I’m glad when she left the show.

Dabb did precipitate the ending of the show. Both Jensen and Jared obviously felt that the show was getting away from the original concept of the brothers.

What many people fail (and still fail to grasp) to understand was that the brothers were the heart and soul of the show. Once they started adding characters and ridiculous plot lines and having the brothers be the B or C plot of their own fucking show, that’s when they decided to call it quits.

You think you are going to eek out 15 seasons of same old same old Sam & Dean do monster of the week?

Their monster of the week episodes are the weakest in the series now.

You need to create a rich mythology to draw on to sustain creativity. Sam & Dean face off against vampire 52 can only go so far.

I do agree that Dabb is very B grade. He has no vision whatsoever.

Jensen and Jared would have likely continued if their work creatively excited them. As it is, they probably realised they were just going through the motions now and there seemed no prospects of anything changing much-under Dabb.

r168 Supernatural has always had a liberal and feminist bias - it always liked to suck up to female characters. For example, when we see female hunters, they are always the most serious and the most bad-assed; when a flock of supernatural beings of both sexes is found, males are almost always cannon fodder, while females are either the leaders of the pack or at least its most effective subordinates.

Take God and Amara as a final example. As soon as the existence of a female counterpart to God, Amara/The Darkness, was introduced on the show, it never misses the opportunity to highlight that she is his superior in every way, older, more powerful, more elegant and, in season 15, also more moral. Now that God has taken the post of Final Boss, he has also lost the ethical depth he demonstrated in season 11; now he is nothing more than a goofy hippie with an inflated ego.

Sometimes I imagine myself asking the writers when I see an episode in which this bias is more explicit: If you think women are so awesome, why make a show about two brothers?

But this tendency by far precedes Dabb's arrival in charge of Supernatural.

And I disagree, too, with the idea that the final seasons are operating under a different concept than previous seasons.

Since the Kripke era, the show has taken as an ideological backdrop the defense of humanity and its free will. At first, it seems that this defense only needed to be asserted against Lucifer and his demons. When angels are introduced, it seems more-or-less that they are allies. But it soon becomes clear that, in order to defend humanity's interests and autonomy, it is also necessary to challenge the prophecies of heaven and the authority of angels. The only reliable angel is Castiel, and this is only because he rebelled against the plans of heaven and became a supporter of mankind.

In season 11, the plan was to take this idea, that of humanity's complete autonomy, to its final conclusion, by making God sacrifice himself to destroy Amara; in this way, the two most powerful beings in the universe would disappear, and humanity would find itself, for better or for worse, free from the designs of omnipotent beings.

This plan, however, had to be abandoned - it seems that this was due to pressure from the studio, which did not want one of its shows to portray something like the Death of God.

But now it looks like season 15 is heading for that same outcome. From the promo of the next episode, my impression is that the Winchesters are going to kill Death, one of the beings with God-level power with the intention of becoming the ruler of the universe, and in the final two episodes they're going to take the fight against God, either killing or, at least, imprisoning him. Now that he has become the final boss of the series, the saccharine conclusion of season 11 is impossible. God is going to have to be defeated and, with that, the series is fulfilling the vision already exposed in seasons 4 and 5, that the best for humanity it is to be freed from all kinds of supernatural authority, including that of Heaven.

Emily Swallow(Amara) is listed in the cast for the final episode. No Castiel, no Jack.

She's not done with yet.

No Castiel but plenty o' Destial!

Yay! Amara!

Maybe she will end up being God at the end.

You are kidding, right, R170?

The show has been criticized for NOT having enough of a female presence.

All the women on the show have had horrible, painful, ugly ends.

Mary, burned alive

Jessica, same, in the same episode, no less.

Ruby, Lilith, Jo, Ellen, Charlie, Mary, again, Eileen, the beautiful girl from the Provenance episode, Amara.

I could go on.

They treat women horribly.

What show you been watching?

LMFAO! On the Celebrities You Loathe thread the poster who named Jensen and Jared has almost 40 up-votes. 🤣🤣🤣🤣

One of the mottos of the show is 'no chick flick moments'.

The show is deliberately hyper masculine and the female fanbase don't mind one bit.

The female centric spin off Wayward Sisters couldn't even muster any enthusiasm in fandom for it to be picked up.

Jensen, Jared and Misha talk to Amy Klobuchar and Ashley Biden on youtube.

[quote]Jensen, Jared and Misha talk to Amy Klobuchar and Ashley Biden on youtube.

LOL, Poor Jensen. He looks like a demon when it's struggling to hold onto its host while being exorcised.

I'm sure his tongue is bloody after sitting through that. He was probably chanting "Marvel Deal, Marvel Deal, Marvel Deal" the entire time.

Jensen isn't a Republican! He's a moderate Democrat who bottoms for Misha whenever they're together! It's Misha who gives him the confidence to speak out about these things.

However, it is clear from that video that he's not the most erudite person when it comes to politics. Lots of platitudes and superficial analysis. That's okay, since he has Misha, who is so incisive, to guide him.

Away from the camera, Jensen is rather shy and a little bit dull to be honest. i say that as a fan.

He always comes across as the reluctant participant be it a convention, or whatever.

He is always overshadowed by Misha & Jared away from the SPN cameras.

No conspiracy theories. I just think he's a private guy.

Supernatural director Richard Speight Jr. previews episode 18's 'emotional ride'

With only three episodes left, Supernatural is closer to facing the monster at the end of the book.

Last week's episode featured multiple surprising twists, from Sam (Jared Padalecki) learning that Billie (Lisa Berry) wants to become new God, to Chuck (Rob Benedict) fusing with Amara (Emily Swallow), and finally Jack (Alexander Calvert) being on the verge of death. In other words, there's a lot at stake in Thursday's fittingly titled episode "Despair," which is the sunsetting drama's antepenultimate installment and features returning guest-stars Jim Beaver and Felicia Day. Not only that, but the Richard Speight Jr.-directed hour was the last episode Supernatural completed before the COVID-19 mandated shutdown.

Below, EW talks to Speight about his final directorial effort on Supernatural, shooting with the growing spectre of the coronavirus, and more.

I feel like no one will be happy about the episode coming tonight.

Castiel stans will be pissed that he dies and won't be in the finale, Dean stans will be pissed because the most notable thing he'll do all episode is blubber over his fallen angel, Sam stans will be pissed because Sam will get less screen time and focus than Dean as usual, Destielers will be pissed because it won't be made canonical. Actually, Bibros might love it since they'll finally be rid of Castiel after all these years, though based on what Dabb is saying he has some ending to screw them over too.

SPN is really going out weak. I still love the guys (especially after their political work this year) but I'm over the show and the people who ran it.

Castiel and Dean better have one final goodbye hug or else.

I demand tears and a long waited for...I love you Cas!

r1182 Who are these Bibros?

R1182

I finally realized what was so off about the writing.

It's that Meredith whatshername, the head writer.

She has absolutely no clue about the characters of Sam and Dean.

Not only that, but she has taken the show in a very pc direction, which fans can feel but not vocalize.

I was watching last week's episode, and it was all about Amara trying to be "equal" to Chuck, yin and yang, light and dark, man and woman. Because you know that biblical history is nothing like that. So this Meredith woman is creating her own narrative.

Not only that, she's totally cut off the balls of the male characters. She actually made Chuck say to Amara, "You B-word!" I mean seriously, WTF???

I remember the days when Dean used to call people a bitch, and he used to punch female demons in the face. That would never happen in this incarnation of Supernatural. It's too politically incorrect.

Nevertheless, that's what she doesn't understand about the characters. Instead of Sam and Dean, she has made both of them Sam.

It used to be that Sam was the enlightened, intellectual "good guy," and Dean was the uncultured, unsophisticated slobbering cave man. Now this Meredith woman has made them both Sam-types.

The way that Kripke originally wrote Dean was to be a crude, crass, beligerent, assholish character. But no matter how bad Dean got, he was always a good guy at his core. That's what made people fall in love with him and the show. Now this female writer has turned him into a total pussy.

Even worse, I was reading Davey Perez' Twitter, and he (along with the other writers) seem to heap praise on Meredith, and shower her with accolades about how wonderful her writing is. No wonder the show has been going downhill. These idiots live in an echo chamber of self-congratulation, without ever realizing how far they have strayed from Kripke's original characters.

Personally, I'm glad SPN is ending. As much as I love the show, it pains me to watch the writers kill the characters with such a slow, painful death.

Here's Davy Perez jerking off on Twitter, to Meredith's final SPN episode....

So Castiel confessed to Dean that he loves him in a fairly long scene every one thought they were about to kiss.

They would of kissed had not The Empty cockblocked them!

[quote] They would of kissed had not The Empty cockblocked them!

By "The Empty," do you mean Jensen? Lol.

Somehow I think that Misha would have been 100% okay with Dean and Cass kissing.

I'm also 100% sure that Jensen said FUCK NO!

Wow, Misha really acted his ass off in his final scene.

I don't know how Dean wasn't in tears, seeing those tears streaming down Castiel's face.

And he said it!!! "I love you." He said it.

As a Destiel fan, I've waited a long time for that.

Dean was hunched over & crying in the final scene

Hilarious fan reaction to Dean & Castiel's final ever scene.

My god this show sucks.

Dean was surprisingly calm, considering that he knew Cass was going to sacrifice himself for Dean.

This show went just about as far as it possibly could in the Destiel story, given the parameters in which it had to work.

The scene at the end with Dean bawling, was just.... beautiful.

Did Cass go to The Empty?

Cas went to the The Empty but he went to the part painted in rainbow colours!

[quote] Cas went to the The Empty but he went to the part painted in rainbow colours!

Why do angels end up in The Empty with the demons, but humans end up in heaven?

That makes no sense at all.

Aren't angels supposed to be good? Then why do they end up in nothingness?

I can understand why demons end up there, but not angels.

Cass should be in heaven, waiting for Dean to join him.

With now only Sam, Dean & Jack left in the world, who gets Jack as his bitch?

Sam or Dean?

Both?

[quote] With now only Sam, Dean & Jack left in the world, who gets Jack as his bitch?

Sam and Dean will finally make out and then fuck each other, while Jack watches.

You know it's true.

"Supernatural" star Misha Collins is reacting to the latest episode of the show, which sent viewers to Twitter Thursday night with their own thoughts about the latest developments.

In the Season 15 episode, titled "Despair," fans definitely weren't led astray by the name, having to witness Castiel (played by Collins) sacrifice himself after declaring his love for Dean (Jensen Ackles).

Collins took to Twitter to share his thoughts on the heartbreaking moment.

"#Supernatural Tonight, watching Cas talk to Dean, I got lost in the story and forgot for a moment that I'm the one who plays that angel and I thought, 'He's how I want to be. He's openhearted and he's selfless and he's true'" Collins tweeted.

Fans were also quick to chime in with their reactions on the social media site.

"Cas’ goodbye speech I’m literally sobbing," user @xSimply_Mishax tweeted.

"Cas first moment on earth was with dean and his final moment was also with dean I CAN’TT" user @asmahayat19 wrote with crying emojis.

"dean sobbing in the end is what completely broke me," user @gloomycelestial said.

"IN OUR HEARTS FOREVER 🖤" user @truepowerrrrr tweeted with photos of Cas.

Some appeared more upset than sad.

"I will NOT accept this. supernatural can't just do this. they can't just make destiel canon and then just kill Cas. they can't do that. this is not okay. I am not okay. I am not going to be okay for a very long time," user @enbychild83 said.

Others pointed out that the show and the characters ship name "destiel" was trending amid the presidential election coverage.

"destiel being at the top with all the election (expletive) going on is honestly hilarious," user @luluradcliffe_ tweeted.

"aww yes #destiel, my favorite political topic," user @BlazePower97 tweeted.

After COVID-19 postponed the filming of a couple episodes, “Supernatural” is set to deliver a cataclysmic ending for a show and its two monster-hunting siblings that have become a cult hit with a passionate fan base. The series finale is scheduled for Nov. 19.

Shippers finally got 'canon Destiel' and all the ungrateful whores could do was criticise the acting.

Shame the guy who plays Cas got FAT.

MISHA IS BUILT, NOT FAT, R203.

Even Jensen thinks so. See link.

Destiel still isn't canon, by the way. We already knew Castiel was in love with Dean. He said so in S12 if people didn't pick up on it before that. What we need is Dean's POV on their relationship, which we hopefully will get in the next episode.

I doubt that Misha will be reappearing which makes SPN a banner example of Bury Your Gays. A major character comes out and then is immediately sent to hell because he dared to be gay happy. Fuck SPN.

The gay angel deserved better.

Misha Collins is far from fat, R203. In fact he's probably thinner now than he was when he first joined the show. Aside from Emily Swallow and Rob Benedict, nobody on Supernatural can act worth a damn but I was impressed with Misha's final scene. Jensen, on the other hand, managed to look as wooden as usual throughout it. You can see him thinking, "Too much fag shit; too much fag shit" all the way through it.

The scene with Dean holding Death's scythe as if he were Superman holding the American flag was cheesy AF and unnecessary.

Serious question: WTF has happened to Jared? Is it the psychotropic meds he's on or is it booze or street drugs? Because it can't be just age. My god, his pursed mouth looks like an anus and his eyes are literally sinking into his head. He looks unwell. And don't get me started on that (thinning) awful hair. Looks aside, his acting is just utterly and completely awful. I mean, it's really, really bad even for the CW.

Something else: Lisa Berry has never been trim but she's fucking rotund now. I'm sorry but who do they thinking they're kidding with that long black leather coat? And she has terrible, terrible teeth! When Dean had the scythe to her neck and she was grimacing I was reminded of an opossum. Sorry but the Grim Reaper should be a hot young chick or a hot young guy, not a fat forty-something woman with tattooed eyebrows, fucked up chompers, and a ratty Korean weave.

This show should have ended years ago, with season five, as Kripke had intended.

I'm pretty sure Lisa Berry was pregnant for most of S15, R205.

The fact that Jensen liked a CW IG post but not Misha's one about Castiel's exit really makes me think less of him. The man is really damn uncomfortable with the gay shit. How insecure in your sexuality can you get? I'm beginning to think he protests too much. He needs to stop being such a damn phobe and open his eyes to the fact that an angel fell for his character and that matters 100x more than his orientation.

Jared's new shorter hair suits his hairline better. As for his acting, he's been phoning it in for several seasons now.

I don't have much interest in Walker or The Boys. I do hope Misha launches his political career that he keeps talking about. I do hope there will be a SPN miniseries/reboot in a few years where Dean reunites with Castiel, as Jensen keeps hinting at.

Misha is a little heavier than when he started.

He is definitely more plump in the face.

Unfortunately he's now of an age where his face would just look gaunt, drawn & old if he lost a heap of weight .

Lisa gave birth in July, R206, and this last episode that aired was filmed in September so she was still carrying some post pregnancy weight. She's not a slim person normally but she really did pork out with the kid.

I don't see Misha as necessarily heavier. I think with age he's just gotten, like all of us, jowlier.

Jared is terrible actor and Jensen isn't much better but, meh, it's a silly CW show. What do you expect, Meryl Streep and Sean Penn?

Jensen has always been a phobe at heart, R206. It's nothing new. He's just trying to hide it better these days because, you know, $$$$$$.

[quote] "Cas first moment on earth was with dean and his final moment was also with dean I CAN’TT" user @asmahayat19 wrote with crying emojis.

They also echoed his handprint on Dean's arm.

When he "pulled Dean from perdition," Castiel left a hand print on Dean's arm.

At the end, he pushed Dean out of harm's way and left another hand print on Dean.

And yes, I agree that Misha is jowlier, but give him a break. He's a 46 year old dad, pushing 50. Of the four leads, he's definitely the best actor, though.

Jensen still looks fantastic. On camera, at least. And next to Misha, his acting was indeed wooden.

Jared is too skinny for his age and his height. He honestly looks more awful, the skinnier he gets. And I hate to say it, but he is without a doubt, phoning in his performances. In the early years, Jared wasn't the best actor, but at least he made an effort. Now, he doesn't even try.

Nevertheless, Castiel's "I love you" to Dean, was a show stopper. I still can't believe that the writers did it.

Dean was indeed a mind reader.

[Quote] Supernatural has always had a liberal and feminist bias - it always liked to suck up to female characters.

That is such bullshit!

[Quote] The female centric spin off Wayward Sisters couldn't even muster any enthusiasm in fandom for it to be picked up.

Neither did the previous spin-off which wasn't female-centric.

[Quote] The man is really damn uncomfortable with the gay shit. How insecure in your sexuality can you get? I'm beginning to think he protests too much. He needs to stop being such a damn phobe and open his eyes to the fact that an angel fell for his character and that matters 100x more than his orientation.

Jensen is not a puppet. He doesn't have to do anything. And that "Destiel" scene was cringe. Only idiots would consider it canon.

[Quote] I do hope there will be a SPN miniseries/reboot in a few years where Dean reunites with Castiel, as Jensen keeps hinting at.

Keep dreaming.

Jensen can emote if he wants. But I like the fact that he didn't this time, when Castiel died. Some desperate fans are still insisting that Castiel's feelings for Dean were brotherly, rather than romantic, but Dean's quietness in that scene confirms they were indeed romantic - they were feelings that Dean could not return, which is why he couldn't say anything back to Castiel.

[quote] Dean's quietness in that scene confirms they were indeed romantic - they were feelings that Dean could not return, which is why he couldn't say anything back to Castiel.

Funny how everybody's going to interpret that scene differently, based on Jensen's acting at that particular moment.

From my perspective, Dean actually looked caught off guard by Castiel saying "I love you." I don't know if it was an intentional portrayal or what, but he honestly looked surprised at the declaration.

I think that it was only after The Empty swallowed up Cass and Billie, that Jensen was able to process what just happened, and that's what caused him to break down. He realized that he loved Castiel too - as a lover, not a friend.

That's my interpretation of the ending scene.

Dean had already said "I love you" to Castiel, back when they returned to Purgatory earlier this season. So I don't think these words alone would catch him off guard. It was, instead, the realization that Castiel loved him in a different way from the one Dean loved him.

[Quote]  Dean's quietness in that scene confirms they were indeed romantic

😆😆😆

No means no...Cas!

Someone joked how since it was blatantly obvious that these two shot this scene completely separate that Jensen probably didn't even know what Cas was actually saying because he would've 100% no homo'ed it lmao.

Personally I don't think Jensen is an actual full on homophobe, he's more like "I support it but keep that gay shit away from me".

Castiel said to Dean: "The one thing I want, I know I can't have."

What did he mean by that?

R219 Just make sure r216 doesn't hear the answer, she's not ready.

I interpreted it as he wanted to be human, R219. Of course, others have said it meant he wanted Dean in a romantic fashion. Regardless, I feel sorry for Cas. According to Supernatural lore, Angels and Demons who are sent to the Empty are forced to relieve their worst memories in their eternal slumber.

[Quote]I interpreted it as he wanted to be human

This is coming from the person who laughed at my interpretation, that Cas was talking about wanting Dean to love him the way Cas loved him.

You're not only disagreeable, you're also dumb as all fuck.

First off, he did live as a human, when he lost his grace, and he hated it. Everyone saw he was miserable. Though he's learned to appreciate humankind, he never insinuated in his speech or even before that he missed those pitiful days.

You're also missing what Cas said after - that, since he could not have what he wanted, he had to resign himself to saying it.

And what did he say in his speech? Mainly, that he loved Dean. He talked of little else. In fact, he even said he only loved humanity because he loved Dean first. He was clearly more enamored of Dean than of the human condition.

I know that I'm not going to convince you of my interpretation, despite it being so truthful to the spirit of the scene, because you're clearly committed to getting it wrong; only this can explain how someone could come up with such a dumb explanation as is yours.

I love your explanation, R222. Makes sense to me.

Question though, why do you think that Cass felt that he couldn't have what he wanted?

Dean had poured his heart out to Castiel earlier in season 15, and Cass could have professed his love for Dean right there. So what was stopping him?

Is he because he's an angel and Dean is human? Or is it because he thinks that Dean is actually straight?

I'm really befuddled by how the writers handled this whole situation, and the resolution of Destiel.

Sometimes your personal constitution prevents you from having certain kinds of feeling for certain types of people. Contrary to what most TV shows say nowadays, sexuality isn't that fluid.

And Dean is nothing but straight. He can love other men - Sam, Bobby, Benny, the half-man Charlie - but only as a brother and a comrade, which he was how he loved Cas. And Cas knew it.

I don't think this block had anything to do with Castiel being an angel. Sam boned a demon before, and Dean developed an attraction for Amara, though she was even farther from human than Castiel. It's just that Castiel was a male.

R223 you are the classic SPN Frau.

You're precisely why people laugh not only this awful show but also at the batshit crazy fandom. And by the way, I think you're also R223 talking to yourself.

I should post my clinic number here for you. You could call on Monday and get a referral for a psychiatrist. The proper medication can work wonders.

I wish they hadn't called the election. That way I'd still have something meaningful to watch. I'm so bored I'm reading a thread on the dumbest show on tv. Idiot fans arguing over whether Dean fucks his brother or an "angel." 🙄

[quote]And by the way, I think you're also [R223] talking to yourself ... I should post my clinic number here for you.

LOL, why am I not surprised you have a "clinic number."

[Quote] You're not only disagreeable, you're also dumb as all fuck.

Someone's triggered.

R206 Jensen DID like Misha's post, not sure how you missed it. Though honestly with people like you around I wouldn't blame him for unliking it again. There could be a gay sex tape leak with Jensen in it and you'd still find excuses to call him untrue names. Just like he could run for office as a Democrat himself and you'd still be claiming he was really a Republican and he could go full on Buddhist and you'd still be saying he's a fundie. The fact is all these accusations say way more about the people making them(all of them bad) than about Jensen himself.

Also the bloody handprint, recalling Dean and Castiel's profound bond? That was partly Jensen's idea, he, Misha and Richard Speight Jr the director came up with it during discussions when they had to make a set adjustment that meant they needed to find a different way to create the ward that kept Death out. So yes Jensen and Misha were most definitely in the same room. Richard naturally has been quite involved with the show but he still doesn't know it like Jensen and to some extent Misha. Back in Season 5, Dean made a sigil by cutting his hand(it was after Cas's first death, by explosion, and Dean specifically said "I learned that from my friend Cas" meaning the sigil) and drawing it in blood. And both Jensen and Misha are perfectly aware of the handprint as a symbol of their profound bond.

In other words one of the more "Destiel' aspects of that scene wouldn't have happened if Jensen was not only agreeable but was one of the people who came up with the idea(as it was something that was come up with on set at the time of filming when the setting of the scene was changed relatively last minute).

[quote]Also the bloody handprint, recalling Dean and Castiel's profound bond? That was partly Jensen's idea. . . .

Source, R230?

A) I can't believe that this shit is still on the fucking air, and

B) I can't believe that there are idiots who still watch it.

SMDH

[quote] I don't think this block had anything to do with Castiel being an angel. Sam boned a demon before, and Dean developed an attraction for Amara, though she was even farther from human than Castiel. It's just that Castiel was a male.

Oh, that's right.

And reading your post also reminded me that Dean actually DID have sex with an angel. That red headed girl in the mental hospital, Anna.

So I guess that rules out not being able to have sex with an angel in its vessel.

That leaves only the one reason why Cass can't "have the one thing that he wants." It's because it would be unrequited love.

R230 Richard Speight Jr the director told the story at the online convention DLConline yesterday. And today Misha at the same con I believe actually said, in his typical let's see how much I can try to make myself look good at someone else's expense way(he knew about the scene months before Jensen did, Jensen found out about 3 months before it filmed), did say that the scene would not have happened if Jensen had said no to it, meaning Jensen had to agree to the scene and what it meant. So not only does the scene only actually exist because Jensen was fine with it, he actually helped in coming up with memorable call back.

[Quote] (he knew about the scene months before Jensen did, Jensen found out about 3 months before it filmed), did say that the scene would not have happened if Jensen had said no to it, meaning Jensen had to agree to the scene and what it meant.

This just comes off as shady on Misha's part. Jensen should not have been put in that position. And it explains why that scene is so terrible.

R235 I do agree with you it was shady as fuck, on the parts of both the writers and Misha. He still knew 3 months ahead of time which would have been plenty of time to change things if he'd objected so what was the big deal with just telling him? It was extremely disrespectful. I

Jensen has never ever been a drama queen, he'll sometimes want the reasoning behind something clarified but he never makes trouble, he's known for being very easy to work with and extremely collaborative. Very much a team player.

But with someone as petty and pathetic as Dabb I guess any questions is considered too much.(I don't like to really make fun of someone's looks but he really looks like that fat ugly nerd who lives in his parents basement at 40 years old)

I thought the scene was well acted, though, I have no issues with it the acting.

A screenshot from the script for "Despair" has been circulating on Twitter.

Homos!

Thank you for that, R237!

I don't want to tell you that I told you so, but I TOLD YOU SO!!!

[quote]And today Misha at the same con I believe actually said, in his typical let's see how much I can try to make myself look good at someone else's expense way(he knew about the scene months before Jensen did, Jensen found out about 3 months before it filmed),

Apparently, that was not all. From what I read on Twitter (below), it was Misha who asked that the scene be inserted. The person who makes the claim is mighty pissed, lol.

The writer who wrote the “bury your gay” ep is gay......wow!

Sometimes I hate those trope lists; it empowers retarded teen girls into thinking they're critics.

In any case, I think the way the episode did it avoids the trope, because Castiel "came out" to Dean with the express purpose to sacrifice himself.

I can't believe how old everyone looked in the most recent episode.

And what a LAME way for all of them to go out.

Charlie, Dean, and Sam all looked ancient. They're all the same weight, but they just look OLD.

Donna still looked the same, and so did Bobby.

But Bobby has looked 100 years old, since the very beginning.

I can't believe that for being series regulars for over 10 years, the writers just made Bobby, Charlie, and Donna go out in a stupid puff of smoke.

Now THAT is lazy writing.

The Winchesters are not up against vampires and demons anymore, but omnipotent entities with the power to wipe out entire worlds. The idea that God would need any effort to do away with Bobby and Charlie is weird, and the fact they simply vanished has nothing to do with "lazy writing". In any case, these characters will be back, as they're credited in the last episode.

[quote] this is not okay. I am not okay. I am not going to be okay for a very long time," user @enbychild83 said.

Ooh, this is DL catnip. Pile on, boys, there's fresh meat ready for the eating.

[quote] One of the mottos of the show is 'no chick flick moments'.

Yet by way of a conclusion we have an angel in the form of a handsome middle-aged man sobbing over his boyfriend and nobly sacrificing himself for True Love(TM). That's Harlequin, weepy, airport-book writing if ever I heard it.

Haha R246 you really nailed it.

For all of the macho bravado that Supernatural has always tried to pretend that the Winchesters possess, the reality is that those two - along with Bobby - are the biggest DRAMA QUEENS EVER!!!

They are always whining, always accusing, and always making things so much more complicated than necessary.

If I didn't know any better, I would say that they were both LESBIANS!!!

And this is so hilarious to me, because they try to act so tough and butch, but they really are overly dramatic about everything.

To be perfectly honest, Castiel is the most masculine out of the five of them. Jack would take second place. Sam third. Bobby fourth. And Dean would be the nelliest of them all!

[quote] They are always whining, always accusing, and always making things so much more complicated than necessary. If I didn't know any better, I would say that they were both LESBIANS!!! And this is so hilarious to me, because they try to act so tough and butch, but they really are overly dramatic.

That's strange to you? You've clearly not known many straight men or lesbians too well, then.

Behind closed doors, the histrionics of hetero men would surprise you. And then there's literal butches.

Actually, under the schadenfreude I feel a bit sorry for the weirdo fanpeople, especially the ones who wanted a gay kiss ending.

I mean, you all really invested over a decade in a terrible trashy programme that didn't deserve to stay on the air so long, and to thank you for your support in all that time the writers & producers (who would not be making such steady healthy paypackets without you) only offered queerbait in return. Even still, you took what was offered and laid all your romantic hopes with one storyline, on the implicit promise that it would one day in future pay off fully - only to get a fakeout, halfassed tip of the hat in the end of things, with one the lead actors not even bothering to expend a modicum of effort (Ackles just no-sold everything and Collins went full-Wiseau, it's brutal).

The outcome is cheap, is what it is, and by the standards of the CW and this show that is saying something.

Don't get me wrong, here; I still think and have always thought SPN is dreck and should have been cancelled and shunted last decade, so this making me happy, but I don't like to see earnest people strung along for money.

This reminds me a little of how Joss Whedon handled Tara Maclay on BtVS, up to and including her senseless death. With everything else going on in Season Six he didn't need to kill the nice decent lesbian in the background without so much as a heroic farewell or a goodbye scene with her girlfriend, but hey, she's expendable and we want shock ratings.

[quote] and to thank you for your support in all that time the writers & producers (who would not be making such steady healthy paypackets without you) only offered queerbait in return.

[quote] Even still, you took what was offered and laid all your romantic hopes with one storyline, on the implicit promise that it would one day in future pay off fully - only to get a fakeout, halfassed tip of the hat in the end of things, with one the lead actors not even bothering to expend a modicum of effort (Ackles just no-sold everything and Collins went full-Wiseau, it's brutal)

As a Destiel fan, I totally agree with the first part.

And on top of everything else, with Castiel's professing his love for Dean, they KILL HIM OFF!!!

Fuckers.

They make the only gay main character on the show come out in his very last episode of the series, and then they kill him.

Now THAT is insulting.

R249 Typical hater who we can rely to relay every single nuance of every single episode because he watches the show he professes to hate-religiously.

Castiel dying with only a couple of eps left i am OK with.

Doing it with 5 more seasons ahead would have been another matter.

Anyone who knows Dean's character would know he would not be providing a Hallmark i love you too moment in immediate response.

He'll take...years to process the romantic confession given how tightly wound up his emotions are.

I've been watching the show from the beginning, and have loved the Winchesters for many years. After watching the quality dwindle, I was not surprised when the stars decided this was the last season. I figured that the writers would step up and honor the show/brothers with some great stories to end the run and I expected to be riveted as the brothers went out with a bang. I was so wrong. These last few episodes have been so horrific - the last one I watched was the one where Sam and Dean go to the motel where they solved a case when they were kids. I just lost interest in the Jack/Amara/Chuck/Billie mess - I still don't understand that whole dynamic and their roles in the endgame. I also don't really understand Cas and when he goes to the empty (don't bother trying to explain it - it won't help at this point). I got so disappointed that I didn't bother watching the 2 eps after that.

I've seen the drama around the last episode with Dean and Cas - from the comments, I'm not sure if it will make me cry or laugh. Maybe after the series finale (which I hope is great) will I go back and watch the two eps I've skipped so far. Prayer circle for SPN fans for the last episodes.

Yeah, Dean's reaction is very consistent with his established personality. It's funny how the people who love to pound on this show over its writing, actually have such poor grasp of what they're talking about. Myself, the more I pay attention to this show, its twists and turns, the more I admire how consistent everything is with character traits and dispositions that were long ago hinted at. The writers have a sense of artistry, technai; the weird DL cunts have not.

How I wish that Kripke had been persuaded to come back and close the door on the series. This was his baby and I think he could have taken the care to end the story of the Winchester family in the best way - as flawed heroes who put others first, and family paramount.

R251 well, I'm a female who has watched maybe a dozen episodes total of the entire show, but nice try.

In fact, I only came in because the thread was bumped in Active, and I remember SPN was trending all over social media last week. I was moved to comment by your visibility. And what I said, if you cared to read it properly, was that I was sympathetic and that I felt genuinely sorry for you, in spite of how dumb I think your show and the fanaticism around it is. It's called empathy, Theory of Mind, and participation - look into it.

As for my understanding of the scene in question, someone I know sent me a clip (last week, as a mental break from the election furore), soI watched it and then listened to her concerns about it out of politeness and consideration, despite my lack of interest in the subject. I can break said scene down into 'nuances' because I have studied acting and scriptwriting at University level, and have worked in theatre.

So I'm not, as you claim, an SPN fan and certainly not a specific SPN hater. I just think it has been ridiculous, pointless, and airtime-wasting as any other show on that network, not the worst thing ever put to screen. From a quality standpoint productions by the CW-WB just suck donkey balls in general and always have, and I think the money and effort spent on it by both creators & fans would be better used elsewhere.

For the record, I am a regular to this board of almost a decade, posting daily in all manner of threads (not just my particular fandom interests, as I see from your post history), so as an interloper you shall not presume to tell me what I can and cannot say or what I am and am not.

[Quote] This reminds me a little of how Joss Whedon handled Tara Maclay on BtVS, up to and including her senseless death.

Buffy is still leaps and bounds better than SPN in every way. Tara's death shocked me and while it could have been handled better, i think they made the right choice. Her relationship with Willow was immensely fucked up that season.

[Quote] The writers have a sense of artistry, technai; the weird DL cunts have not.

Lay off the pipe 🤣

[Quote] From a quality standpoint productions by the CW-WB just suck donkey balls in general and always have,

At least there was some effort made with shows on the WB. And half of them weren't about superheroes or reboots. I think the last decent thing they did was Crazy Ex Girlfriend.

Misha's acting in this latest episode, was EMMY worthy.

*crossing fingers*

Sweet Christ, R257, for your own sake I'm hoping your comment is meant to be farcical.

R249/R255 . . . MARRY ME! Your comments were spot-on. I hate this goddamn show and its no-talent actors and the screeching fans who think it's tantamount to Ibsen.

R206 . He has been forced to clean up his homophobic, Republican image by his management.

I am not so sure everyone is buying it certainly not many within LGBTQ community. He has been absolutely crucified this past week all across the internet and social media with people branding him homophobic over his recent reaction to Cas telling Dean he loved him. Many pointed out how disgusted Jensen looked when doing that scene and that he couldn't even hide his homophobia whilst being in character.

He truly has been hammered this past week with memes also mocking his homophobia despite his management and wife trying to clean up his tarnished homophobic image and some were previously Jensen supporters.

Why are we still talking about this Republican Jesus Freak? I'll never forget him yelling THANK YOU JESUS CHRIST at the top of his lungs when he won some dumb soap award. R259 he deserves to be hammered. I don't for a minute believe he's changed his ways. It's nothing but a ploy to get hired since he's decided to end his CW show. He wants to do something different and knows how hard Repubs have it (rightfully so!) in Hollywood.

Fuck him. I hope he never works again. He's a shitty actor who's made enough money off the CW show. If he wants to work he can go make more shitty Jesus movies with Mel Gibson.

The one who hopefully never works again is that asshole Collins.

Supposedly he knew 3 months in advance what his ending scene would look like. Jensen didn’t have any fucking idea.

He was blindsided. DEAN WINCHESTER IS NOT GAY OR BI, AND HE NEVER HAS BEEN ON THE SHOW.

What part of that don’t you haters understand?

Thanks R249 R251

I got a good chuckle out of your defensive post.

I did like the bit how the 'friend' sent you the SPN clip in question. Who would of thought of such coincidence, or maybe just contrivance?

The biggest laugh was your understanding of nuance because you did some 101 acting classes and scriptwriting at University.

It's like you discovered the grand understanding of human condition in that one Stanislavski lecture. Good luck with that one.

Nevertheless, I look forward to the angry Lesbian rant we are sure to read when you just accidentally stumble on the last two episodes. Coincidence, of course.

R259 You obviously know nothing about the show or the character of Dean.

His reaction in that moment is Dean to a tee.

The angry unhinged haters have really come out today.

I love how SPN holds such sway over them to dictate their ability to almost function like a normal person.

I can almost see the smashing of the chairs etc as they are glued to the episodes.

R260 Jensen is joining The Boys.

R261 Misha will probably end up on another CW show. He should join the Arrowverse.

R260 Jensen is joining The Boys.

R261 Misha will probably end up on another CW show. He should join the Arrowverse.

I was not kidding, R258 you hateful beast!

Have you not seen the fan reactions to Misha's final scene? People were sobbing in tears.

Any performance that can bring such emotion to people, is Emmy worthy.

So sorry that your hatred for this show is blinding you to the talents of the actors.

Fuck you, misha fan, you are stupid.

His acting suuuucks.

Hopefully he will never be heard from again. I’ll say it again, NO show will want anything to do with him and his toxic, shitty fans.

The idea that no show wants anything to do with an actor’s fans, whether toxic or not, has been disproven time and again. Shows want ratings. If Satan and all his minions are watching, they don’t care as long as they watch. It’s Hollywood, not a convent.

We’ve all seen actors with obvious drug issues, severe anorexia, or who are outright abusive to staff allowed carry on unobstructed way too long, because they bring the ratings. It’s a business.

Wow, you can tell from the WWs on this thread that all but a very small group really dislike Supernatural, Jensen and Jared. I live in Austin and see Jensen and his wife all the time. I also see Jared's wife and their kids a lot. I've seen Jared a bunch of times but not nearly as often as the others.

I can't claim to hate Supernatural but it's not something I watch regularly. And I think that the two actors got majorly lucky with it, given their low level of talent. R267 from the few times I've seen the show Misha seems to be the only one who CAN act. Plus, he worked in Clinton's White House and I really like the kind of person he is. You sure as hell don't see Jared and Jensen doing charity work on the level that Collins does.

R266, you gave me a laugh. I hope English isn't your first language because if it is then I can't help but picture you in a caftan and earrings. "Hateful Beast"? Man, you need to wipe those words from your vocabulary.

Ever since "Last Holiday" aired, my cable provider has had the episode On Demand, and I've watched it over and over again.

It really has become one of my favorite episodes, and I LOOOOOVE Mrs. Butters!

She is adorable.

Mrs. Butters is one of the few characters that I took an instant liking to on this show, along with Charlie and Garth.

I think that if the show was going to continue for another five years, Mrs. Butters would have been a regular character.

She's really that good.

Dear R269...

Bad link.

Dear R269...

I haven't watched the last two episodes yet, but I know that Cas "left" in the last one. I'm curious about Jack... is he still around? I haven't liked his character for the last 2 seasons and hope that he doesn't stink up the last two episodes of the series. PLEASE, I hope he's gone.

He is still around, unfortunately.

Maybe he will go be with cas in the empty.

Michael comes back with Adams body.

R267 take your nonsense somewhere else.

R268 you do make a good point. But J2 are not on the level of Charlie or Ellen. And Charlie hasn't done much since Two And A Half Men.

I can't believe that there are only two episodes left.

I hope they're good!

Well, this episode was very good! Great twist ending.

Loved the music as well. Great classic rock songs!

Misha act? LOL That was probably the most acting he's done in years and there was no nuance to it. He wasn't in character either as he used entirely the wrong voice. It just goes to show that most people didn't watch, because if you did, and have any understanding of Dean Winchester as a character, Jensen showed him going through more emotions than Misha did. The acting wasn't as "big" and obvious but there was more to it than one screen cap chosen when Dean was schooling his emotions.

R277 they won't be. This last one, tonight, was tragically bad. So stupid and very underwhelming for the season finale. They consider the next episode the series finale.

Jesus, R279, you sound like some fourteen-year-old besotted fanboy, clutching his "graphic novel," convinced that what he's just read is high art. My god, but you're sad.

There is a moment in a season 13 episode that, now, is impossible not to see as a reference to Destiel. That's when Castiel meets The Empty for the first time, and it tells him:

[quote]Oh, save it. I have tiptoed through all your little tulips. Your memories, your little feelings, yes. I know what you hate. (Whispers) I know who you love… what you fear. There is nothing for you back there.

The fact that The Empty uses a whispering voice when he speaks of the person Castiel loves, proves that the object of this feeling is not "humanity", or his friends, or anything clichéd like that - it is someone that Castiel keeps secret. And the fact that the Empty uses this love as an argument for Castiel not to go back to earth, proves that this it is unrequited, a love that can never be satisfied.

As I said before, "Myself, the more I pay attention to this show, its twists and turns, the more I admire how consistent everything is with character traits and dispositions that were long ago hinted at."

Here's a video of the scene:

[quote]Misha act? LOL That was probably the most acting he's done in years and there was no nuance to it. He wasn't in character either as he used entirely the wrong voice.

That guttural voice of Castiel is a symbol and consequence of his repressed and self-controlled nature, typical of that of an ideal angel, who spent the whole of his life following rules instead of following his personal desires. When Misha acted like other characters - like Lucifer or the Empty, who are characters of stronger emotionality than Castiel - he did not use that low voice.

The problem is that not only is it difficult for the actor to make that low voice when emotions are forced out like that, but also that, even if that were possible, such choice would go against the spirit of the scene. Castiel was finally putting out what had been in him for so long; he lost his self-control, and that is what his voice change means.

Strong emotionality does not go well with cold solidity. This is known even in other fields of art. Critics and philosophers of 18th and 19th century art spent a lot of time discussing, about the statue known as the Laocoön and His Sons, why the figures portrayed in it don't seem to be crying out despite what is happening to them.

Schopenhauer, in my opinion, had the best answer. Instead of getting lost in psychological and aesthetic arguments, like some of his predecessors did, he cut to the chase and gave the simplest explanation: it is simply difficult to reproduce a feeling as intense as the fear of death in a material as hard as marble.

Misha must have felt the same with Castiel's final scene. In that final scene, he had two options: either he made a solemn and emotionally restricted farewell, or he let Castiel put out whatever he wanted to say, destroying his cold facade in the process. Misha chose the latter, and thank God that is what he did.

The Covid restrictions were very obvious with the paired down cast and how it played out in the penultimate episode. I suspect they may have had bigger set pieces for Chuck’s downfall in mind but Covid meant a lot had to be junked. How Jack became all powerful was rather weakly told in so much as Dean had to explain how it happened. They also did not explain how Sam & Dean knew what was happening to Jack. The show gave no indication they had any clue about what was happening to him. And neither did Jack for that matter. They all magically knew at the end! I think the finale will be just a typical monster of the week episode showing them continuing on the good fight like how they began. Given the guys talk about coming back in a limited run series down the track sometime, you surmise they dont merely retire at the end.

Also the worst thing really was what happened to Amara. A female character who was imprisoned by her brother for ions and now is trapped inside Jack. It's pretty gross.

R283 You do realize most people didn't like Misha's Lucifer and thought his The Empty was absolutely terrible?

I don't care what you cold hearted bitches say.

This episode was GOOD.

The doggy was cute.

And the music made me so emotional.

But it was the recap of all the important characters who have ever appeared on the show, that made me tear up.

It's really the end of one of my favorite shows, and I can see why Jared and Jensen said that they were both wrecks at the end of filming.

You can't do something for 15 years, with people that you really care about, and something that means so much to so many people, and not break down.

The way that this episode ended, I honestly thought that this was the finale, even though I knew there were two more episodes.

I was so confused.

What more story is there to tell?

Here's a Part 25, just in case this thread decides to be paywalled.

Right before the series finale.

R285

Amara appears in the final episode.

Emily Swallow is listed in the credits for the final episode.