Official I'LL BE GONE IN THE DARK Viewing Party

Y'all ready to catch this terror train in a half an hour?

This looks good

OP, thanks for the heads up. McNamara didn't really have much to do with the Golden State Killer getting caught (although she did rename him and helped popularize the almost-dead case), so it'll be interesting to see what her husband puts together.

How many episodes have they released so far?

R4, I think the preview said it's going to be six episodes?

Only the first episode debuts in 7 minutes.

Here is the schedule for all 6 episodes:

I must admit, I prefer the Netflix model of dropping the entire season at once if you want to binge-watch.

HBO and Disney + are still doing Ye Olde Weekly Stringalonge.

That's the last good book I read. I binge-read it. I'd hear something outside and jump ("Is the door locked?").

HBO should do a series about the Zodiac. Although I guess it's pretty tough to beat the film, and it's still an unresolved case.

It's getting great scores from Metacritic and Rottentomatoes, but only a few critics have weighed in and I hope they've seen the entire series.

I don't need another American Horror Story that's still shooting as the season begins, gets praise at first, then falls apart at the seams.

McNamara repeats the common theory that the GSK only killed 13 people.

But some of the articles linked in the arrest thread suggested he may have killed 22 people in the Pacific Northwest.

R11, the idea that he killed people in the Pacific Northwest is also a "theory"

I hate to say it, but Michelle looked a LOT like DL villain Diane Schuler, of "There's Something Wrong with Aunt Diane"!

I liked the first episode.

I hope the show stays focused on what McNamara contributed to the case when it strays from the Golden State Killer's story, because there's an amount of vanity with McNamara injecting herself into a drama that's not about her.

But so far, so good. Very creepy recounts of the GSK's first rapes. And I love the CREATURE FROM THE BLACK LAGOON metaphor with regards to the GSK traveling in drainage canals to stake out his victims.

FYI, if you guys are interested, you might want to check out the terrific doc series Netflix did on Ted Bundy.

Very creepy!

As well as the same director's fictional re-enactment of Bundy starring Zac Efron.

So, "I'll slit your throat and I'll be gone in the dark" is what the killer said to one of his first victims as a threat.

I wish it was more about the years long search for the identity of the monster and realizing finally that the EAR killer was the same as the Original Night Stalker killer, and less about the author of that book.

They're telling both stories, so you'll probably be satisfied.

But the GSK's story has so many frightening turns, you're going to see this as a feature film, TV series and many, more focused documentaries for decades to come.

D'Angelo was a psycho, a cop and a "fox guarding the henhouse."

So she OD'd? That's really sad. Was it fake Xanax with fentynal or what?

I like it so far very much, even though it seems like they're portraying Michelle McNamara as pretty saintly so far. But her involvement in the stopry is part of the appeal (since she was married to someone famous and was a major part of the case being solved). I expect as it goes they will make it more about the rapes and the murders; I also assume they will show more about the victims, since that was such a big part of Michelle's approach to the story--that it wasn't just about the killer, but the people's lives he had devastated or ended.

I made the mistake of playing the Golden State Killer's phone calls to one of his victims. Terrifying stuff! Don't listen to [italic]that[/italic] right before you're going to bed!

Btw, his voice does not match up with his physical appearance. He sounds much younger -- like a college kid.

I still don't buy that Patton Oswalt was that in love with Michelle

DeAngelo looked kinda chubby during his reign of terror. Descriptions of him from victims seemed to imply that he was a twinky blond.

He was kind of a doughy potato face.

Some of the police sketches really nailed him ...

These were pretty close too.

But the descriptions and sketch that was most widely circulated portrayed him as an athletic twink young enough to be in high school:

Geez—how about a spoiler alert?

I just can’t with the McNamara angle. Anyone who followed this case online knows she had little to do with it until very recently. It feels disrespectful to the community of people— including the family of victims and survivor who participated in the A&E boards for almost two decades— that almost all credit is being given to McNamara mostly because of who she was married to. If anyone is to be thanked, it’s Bruce Harrington, the brother of one of the victims who got Prop 69 passed. That allowed for the DNA link between the NoCal crimes and the SoCal crimes.

And many of MM’s conclusions were flat wrong! One example: MM insisted that D’Angelo wasn’t ex-military and that his rope knot skills were gained from working on a horse ranch. Other researchers, ones with military experience, disputed this and of course it turned out they were right: D’Angelo was ex-Navy.

Wait, she died from Adderall, Xanax AND fentanyl?

So she was a complete pill head.

What the fuck

Yeah, McNamara didn't really do much (anything?) in terms of actual connect-the-dots detective work or even theorizing that informed the capture.

She got (kept?) the spotlight turned up on the case. But so did discussion boards.

Is she really the focus of this?

R27, his voice on those taunting recordings sounded like a teenage boy/young guy. I wonder if that was a strategy on his part to change his voice to throw the police off? Or if his voice really was that high-pitched.

Too much focus on the writer of a book about the case instead of the actual case.

Michelle McNamara Had Secret Room Filled With Drugs

Michelle McNamara wrote some of the greatest crime stories of our time, but few people knew about her secret life. Michelle allegedly had her own private drug den filled with a variety of prescription and illegal drugs inside the home she shared with her husband and 7-year-old daughter.

Police discovered that Michelle McNamara’s home had a special room that contained an assortment of uppers, downers, and painkillers. However, not all the pills were of the illegal kind like the ones found on the streets or sold by dope dealers. Michelle also had prescription drugs, given to her by the doctors she went to. According to Radar Online, these drugs included “prescription bottles of Bupropion, an antidepressant, Cefdinir, an antibiotic, and Naproxen, an anti-inflammatory drug.” Authorities discovered other prescription medication which included oxycodone, hydrocodone, and the stimulant Dextroamphetamine, which has been linked to psychosis and heart failure in some patients.

R34, sordid.

[quote] Police discovered that Michelle McNamara’s home had a special room that contained an assortment of uppers, downers, and painkillers. However, not all the pills were of the illegal kind like the ones found on the streets or sold by dope dealers. Michelle also had prescription drugs, given to her by the doctors she went to.

Yes, lots of people have one of these, it’s called a “bathroom.” There is often a secret hole inside the wall, covered by a mirror, where people keep the drugs doctors prescribe them. Other times, people have an enclosed area under a sink inside of a bathroom, with shelving, where they keep their prescribed drugs.

I thought she died of cancer

[quote] Is she really the focus of this?

Her book was a best seller and sparked new interest in this serial rapist from the general public.

Subsequently, he was caught through DNA testing

R28, sorry, I didn't mean to spoil anything for you. But I kinda assumed that as the real Golden State Killer was caught two years ago, everybody on the thread sort of knew his identity by now.

Relax. It was a joke.

[quote] It feels disrespectful to the community of people— including the family of victims and survivor who participated in the A&E boards for almost two decades— that almost all credit is being given to McNamara mostly because of who she was married to.

The show is based on her book.

Moreover, they needed an angle to make this show more popular and stand out--this is an HBO show.

R40, lol. Sorry, I wasn't mad, but I did think you were serious. Another poster on another thread chided me for spoiling a five-year-old movie once.

In his younger days, D'Angelo looked like David Arquette.

Then he started getting really fat.

r31, she wrote a bestselling book about the case

I'm not thrilled with the McNamara angle, either. I love Patton Oswalt, but McNamara seems like an interloper, parasite and hanger-on trying to infuse herself into drama where she's irrelevant.

Maybe the doc will show me some invaluable contribution she made.

Otherwise, I'm only in it for the GSK's and victims' stories.

She was a true crime blogger. She wrote about a lot of cases, including The Golden State Killer. I'm not sure how that makes her a parasite.

Well, her widower husband is the executive producer, so naturally one can expect that he'll interject his late wife into the series in a flattering angle.

RIP to Mrs. McNamara, but her story is definitely the least compelling/interesting part. I think most people are watching for GSK and victim stories as well.

He’s pleading guilty right now, slumped over with his mouth hanging open, voice barely audible. This is just like his first appearance, before he dropped the act and stared everyone down from his cage.

Michelle McNamara was unable to attend. She extends her regrets.

haha they're in face shields

R48, I feel badly for his ex-wife, and especially his three (?) daughters! Imagine the trauma of finding out your father is this monster.

This is the one that got me, r50. He looks like a lizard.

R51, like a turtle.

Joseph DeAngelo Pleads Guilty to Murder in Golden State Killer Cases

In a converted ballroom in Sacramento, in front of victims and their families, the former police officer began admitting guilt to a multitude of crimes on Monday.

R53, wow. He really thought he was going to get away with it, and almost did.

I actually wonder why he stopped. It certainly wasn't because of remorse -- he kept making taunting phone calls to victims and family members all the way until 2004.

He stopped because D.N.A. technology was invented in 1985.

D'Angelo was a cop himself, keenly aware of all the methods and limitations of law enforcement. Studying and using insider info is something Ted Bundy also did.

D'Angelo's last suspected violent crime was on May 4, 1986.

Just one year later, D.N.A. profiling started earning convictions against violent rapists in the U.S. and U.K.

D'Angelo was informed of the changing technology in law enforcement and that's probably why he stopped.

Sounds like her kid got neglected while Michelle was doing all her sleuthing

It's been theorized that he stopped simply because he was getting older. His sex drive and stamina were decreasing. He would run and jump over fences etc. when he committed his crimes and IIRC near the end of his crime spree he was almost caught because a much younger man chased him and almost caught him. He must've been spooked by that.

I don't mind the stuff about Michelle, but Patton Oswalt just gets on my nerves!!

I won’t make it through this series. I just don’t care about Patton Oswalt.

R55 and R57, both reasons make sense.

His neighbors said he was a very agile, active man around his home, almost obsessive about order. So now we have a feeble, vague man up there whispering he's guilty in a weak voice.

He's going to escape again. He'll be gone in the dark.

I am related to one of the victims in the case. She was told by her now friend (former detective Carol) that he was an alcoholic and they had to have him drugged up for that first appearance so he wouldn’t have the DT’s or have a stroke from rapid alcohol withdrawal. Michelle may not have added to his actual capture but her article and the new found public interest and reward did keep the case open. My family members home phone was recorded for years. I was scared to be alone in her house once I found out what had happened and so glad she moved to another neighborhood. He lived nearby by for all these years and she always felt like he was around and knew he must have been a cop or military. He raped a virgin but due to his micro dick, he did it take that teenagers virginity. I wish he was called the micro penis killer or needle dick as they do not strike fear in anyone!

The streaming model of releasing everything at once to binge watch has really spoiled me, I hate having to wait for a new episode every week. it seems so out of date now.

I agree r63 I’m spoiled with the dvr and binging. I can not tolerate commercials or being restricted to 1 episode at a time

r64 I can't stand commercials anymore either even the 30 second commercials on sites like NBC.com piss me off now.

To the ones bitching about the time spent explaining Michelle McNamara's involvement researching the case, it's important to know. Going into this series, I didn't know it. I was only vaguely aware that Patton Oswalt had a wife who'd died sometime back. And FFS, it's only the first episode of six. It's the necessary introduction.

David Fincher's 'Zodiac' 2007 isn't so much about the Zodiac as it is about Robert Graysmith, a cartoonist working for the SF Chronicle who became obsessed with the case. The film is about his investigative journey, but I haven't particularly noticed people objecting to that. I suspect that the DL voices expressing impatience with this series being about Michelle McNamara are the same ones who tend to be triggered anytime narratives center around female characters. I wish they'd take that shit back to 4chan where it belongs.

Nice misogynistic concern troll @r56.

Patton Oswald's smirking face is making it difficult to watch. Why was he signing the book at the beginning, did he write it too?

BTW "Unmasking A Killer" is another documentary about this case on Amazon Prime. It's very good.

He probably oversaw its completion and publication, R67, and possibly contributed a preface or other blurb. Michelle McNamara was his wife, and she's no longer around to do book signings.

What's with the hostility toward Patton Oswalt here?

"Why was he signing the book at the beginning, did he write it too?"

He helped complete the book after she died

Why is the show focusing on the drug fucked boring cunt Frau? Fuck her..

All the bits on her sick. And as for the enabling troll doll hubby..

Patton had to know his wife was doping herself up and spending a lot of time on her "investigation" so who was watching their kid? He didn't want to raise the kid alone so he quickly remarried.

r55, I find it interesting that a sociopath serial killer can just stop killing people. I don't know if my perception is influenced by media entertainment, but to me it always seemed that serial killers can't help themselves to look for their next victims just like pedos can't help themselves checking out new kids to groom and molest. For me the only way serial killers stop is when they get caught, become seriously ill and would no longer able to pull it off, or just die.

r55, I find it interesting that a sociopath serial killer can just stop killing people. I don't know if my perception is influenced by media entertainment, but to me it always seemed that serial killers can't help themselves to look for their next victims just like pedos can't help themselves checking out new kids to groom and molest. For me the only way serial killers stop is when they get caught, become seriously ill and would no longer able to pull it off, or just die.

R73 you’re watching too much tv.

Dennis Rader “BTK” stopped killing for over a decades. Same thing for the Green River Killer Gary Ridgway. There are multiple theories why such including reduced libido to aging out of physical strength and agility.

R73 I assume it's much like people who "partied" a lot then just decided one day it was enough. Body and mind can't take it anymore.

I believe that I was told he stopped around the births of his girls. He became progressively more violent and left his area for the planned murders. I enjoy Patton and have no trouble with his involvement as it gives a framing for the series. I follow him on Twitter and enjoy his intellect and humor especially when he goes after Dump. If you google the case and see the press footage from the time of his capture, it was plain old detective work that found him. A relative of his had their DNA on a genealogy database and the police had his DNA so they were searching through for possible matches. Check our the Sacramento Bee articles as it’s fascinating.

R69 I can't stand Patton Oswalt either. Are we not allowed to dislike or even be hostile to celebrities on DL anymore?

Of course you can dislike Patton.. this is DL😜

There was already a serious done on this before, likely with the same exact victims being interviewed. I don't see why another was necessary.

[quote] What's with the hostility toward Patton Oswalt here?

Just spitballing from an objective standpoint here, but from what I’ve read some might say that such a man is nothing more than manslaughtering out-of-touch hobbit who picked up a second wind, a former starlet and a cool few milly without deserving any of it.

Considering that he spent the next year after Michelle’s passing tweeting about the President and courting Helpmeet #2, its understandable there are those who believe that, even if he had no hand in MM’s death, he was praying to G-D to get an upgrade. One can only imagine what it is to feel no compunction about sedating a spouse and farming a daughter off so one can play video games and jerk off onto Funko Pops and pretend to be a comedian doing guest spots on shitcoms.

It is even said by some (not I) that the worst thing about Oswalt is the hypocrisy, and the fact that he’s very disturbing to look upon. All conjecture and hearsay, of course.

The GSK apparently was described by his female rape victims as having a very short penis. It’s one of the fascinating details of this case.

"I don't know if my perception is influenced by media entertainment, but to me it always seemed that serial killers can't help themselves to look for their next victims just like pedos can't help themselves checking out new kids to groom and molest."

Expect plenty of serial killers have gone years and years without killing anyone (BTK comes to mind) and sex offenders actually have a pretty low recidivism rate

r81, you clearly know nothing about him. He busted his ass for decades as a standup and an actor. He didn't just "get lucky"

And why are you claiming he "sedated" his spouse - pretty sure he didn't shove the pills down her throat

I don't give a shit if the interloping parasite is a male or female, r66.

All I care is that they contributed conclusive substance to the case if they're going to make a show about them.

In ZODIAC, Graysmith correctly interpreted the Zodiac Killer's letters when reporters and detectives were not. Graysmith served as a conduit of communication between disparate police jurisdictions that didn't have the internet or efficient info sharing back then.

Furthermore, Graysmith actually came face-to-face with the prime suspect in a dangerous way.

I'm waiting for I'LL BE GONE IN THE DARK to explain any contributions as significant as those from McNamara and I'm perfectly open-minded about it.

Not all sociopaths are naive, r73.

There's one kind that doesn't know any better, that quickly gets caught or damages him or herself.

But the more common kind — often called psychos — know society's moral expectations and exactly how society stops murders and rapes, etc. These can be highly intelligent, so they counter with all kinds of research, cover-ups, untraceable methods, "nice guy" disguises and actually get off on beating the system.

The Golden State Killer, Ted Bundy, the Zodiac Killer, Michael Jackson, Jeffrey Epstein — they were all like this.

New law enforcement technology or getting older — and D'Angelo had become a fat, piece of shit — are certainly enough to deter a psycho who realizes he can't get away with it anymore.

But who's to say the crimes stopped? Maybe D'Angelo just changed his methods — like successfully discarding of the bodies or raping with condoms and gloves — so law enforcement stopped connecting them to him.

"Furthermore, Graysmith actually came face-to-face with the prime suspect in a dangerous way."

He isn't the "main suspect" and the only reason people think he did it is because Graysmith fudged the "evidence" against him

"I'm waiting for I'LL BE GONE IN THE DARK to explain any contributions as significant as those from McNamara and I'm perfectly open-minded about it."

She wrote a best-selling book about the case. This show is BASED ON THE BOOK. If you don't like that fact, don't watch it. I'm not sure why people who hate Patton Oswalt and Michelle Macnamara are even watching this.

I love Patton Oswalt and I'm not the only one skeptical of McNamara as a bandwagon-jumper.

Writing a best-selling book telling people what was already discovered by others doesn't rise to the level of documentary or movie to me.

But I'll give the documentary a chance to show me substantive contributions.

"Writing a best-selling book telling people what was already discovered by others doesn't rise to the level of documentary or movie to me."

Then don't watch. NEXT!

[quote]who picked up a second wind, a former starlet and a cool few milly without deserving any of it.

I see, R81. So it's personal jealousy over the man's success and wealth, spilling over into open hatred. Got it.

You know, character defects like the ones you're exhibiting are treatable, if you are capable of acknowledging that you have a problem. But considering how shamelessly you put on, probably not.

Just do the bit, R90! This shit ain’t hard, toots.

I seriously think someone has taken down or defaced the entryway sign that says ‘Pointless Bitchery’ because too many posters are not getting it.

I never took the sign as meaning that one needed to be a 'Pointless Bitch' in order to post here, R91. ;)

Wow is the junk PADDED! Bad.

R92 ‘Pointless’, you say? Well, certainly, if you like; and that’s fine with me darling. At least I won’t have bored anyone - as we know that is the only sin. Isn’t pathologising and screaming “schizoid” at other people just the height of tedium?

In any event, I’ll give the stand to a more eloquent man who’ll take us out..

‘Nothing is really beautiful unless it is useless; everything useful is ugly for it expresses a need’.

‘Consistency is the last refuge of the unimaginative.’

‘Life is much too important a thing ever to talk seriously about it.’

‘When a man has no enemy left there must be something mean about him.’

[quote]Isn’t pathologising and screaming “schizoid” at other people just the height of tedium?

Many people say that of you, do they, R94?

I make 1 million a year and swab down my yacht myself with my one boatswain, Jimmy. James Gatz, kid is going places, besides up my eldergay ass.

Oh, really, R96?

What r7 posted x 1000. I couldn’t even finish watching the first episode. Also didn’t it come that Oswalt was basically indirectly responsible for Michelle’s demise, by introducing her to the “lifestyle”?

Now the world knows the GSK has a baby dick!

How pathetic is his current wife who supported him and micro penis financially!

R98, no, the only person claiming he's responsible for her death are the weirdos who hate him for no reason. And for some reason are watching the show despite hating him.

I'm not interested in this dead woman's story at all. Way way too much about her.

r98, please elaborate or I’ll call you a tease. Dirt on Patton please!

r98 doesn't have any dirt. He/she is just posting bullshit.

Patton is the guy who created Comedians of Comedy tour and there was a documentary about it too. It was really successful in the early 2000s. This is what put Patton on the map. And it totally went to his head. His hobbit ass started walking around town bucking out his chest acting like he was the king on top fuck mountain.

He and the comics on this tour were kind of branded as “alternative” or “indie” because they weren’t really THAT known yet. And (ALLEGEDLY) Patton started partying and getting Into the scene because he was Mr Cool now.

Anyway, when he hooked up with Michelle she wasn’t into that shit at all (ALLEGEDLY). Patton was the one who got her into Molly and coke and shit.

I got attacked on DListed when I posted something negative about him.

R105 here. Just to reiterate this is what was speculated about Patton here on DL. I have no dog in this fight but this might explain why people in this thread are posting negatively about him.

R105 >>>>This is all ALLEGED<<<<

R106, I left Dlisted a while back. The hivemind there went off the rails. The place used to be my home and then a few Queen Bee commenters took over. If you didn’t agree with every single opinion - agreeing 95% of the time wasn’t good enough - the hive would turn on you.

There’s something fucky about all that. I feel awful for their poor child. Lost her drug addicted mother and dad brings home a bitchcunt replacement immediately. And you know if she ever complains, her vicious father will cut her down. Poor kid.

Always creepy when men hook up so quickly after their spouse dies but it is very common. Free child care and personal assistant.

Michelle was very pretty when she was young. Although, not thin.

"Lost her drug addicted mother and dad brings home a bitchcunt replacement immediately. And you know if she ever complains, her vicious father will cut her down. Poor kid."

You don't know anything about their family. His wife (Meredith Salenger) is not a bitch or a cunt and she gets along great with Patton's daughter. Weird how people just invent "gossip" out of thin air

DListed said I was jealous when I mentioned how Patton got remarried quickly. I was like, I am a gay man why would I be jealous of that little troll marrying some woman?

like really R114, i mean like wow how ridiculous who cares about hetero cunts bitches and fat trolls rofl like I'm with you

R114, haha we’re jealous and don’t know anything.

It’s a thing that men do, because they need a woman to take care of them. I find it supremely fucked up when it involves children who’ve just lost a mother.

There was just a Dateline where a man’s wife died (hit her head and fell into the swimming pool in the middle of the night) and eight months later he’s married to someone else. I mean... and the second wife dies, and there’s no conclusive proof of who killed her. Either it was the husband or the woman’s loser son.

People always think they’re irreplaceable.

Lots of straight men remarry quickly because they have no idea how to take care of themselves and they need a live-in maid.

It is unbelievable how helpless a lot of straight men are when it comes to the everyday things in life.

Patton Oswalt seems like the type of guy who wants to come home and play his video games and needs a woman to take care of the kid and household stuff. Meredith used to be a dish in her younger years, guess she was getting into her late 40's and figured he was the best she could do finding somebody in the Hollywood scene. I noticed she has gained weight like Michelle did.

Low-hangers unite!

oh my r119, wow. She looks dumpy.

Did PO kill his wife?

r121, no, only according to some of the weirdos here

R121 Do people REALLY think that? I just think he's an attention whore.

Yeah it seems unlikely. But he’s so fucking ugly, I almost wanted it to be true.

You think he's an attention whore.....so you'll continue to give him attention by watching the show he helped produce and by talking about him and going on and on about what you believe about him

R125 I actually find the EAR/ONS case to be interesting, so yes, despite the stench of Patton Oswalt making this mess all about himself... I will watch it.

Oh, quit with the histrionics, R126 - Patton Oswalt hardly appears in the first episode. He has about a minute's worth of screen time.

Sigh, he's not making it about himself. It's based on the book his wife wrote.

If you marry a fatso, you will become like him.

You will start eating the same foods and doing the same activities he likes and vice-versa.

It happened to my sister, she's a blimp now.

I don't understand the focus on the investigator. Just tell us the story of the criminal.

I feel the same way, R130. I'd much rather have a series just on the crimes and how he was caught, but HBO bought the rights to her book and this has always been their plan.

[quote]May 1, 2018

[quote]HBO Documentary Films has greenlit a documentary series based on Michelle McNamara’s best-selling book ““I’ll Be Gone in the Dark: One Woman’s Obsessive Search for the Golden State Killer.”

The two other documentary series on the Golden State Killer were very good.

She doesn't seem that interesting. Her reflections go on an on. I felt like I was watching Octavia Spencer in her ridiculous podcast crime sleuth series. And the witnesses about her are waxing on how fabulous she was. I mean, seems like she was nice enough but really who gives a fuck, its not like she's Joan Didion and we want to know of her exquisite sensitivity to the subject in a meta sense.

Is there any way to stream this without HBO? Looked at Amazon -- nothing.

r134 any number of the streaming sites like Sockshare or Watchseries should have it.

Well, I guess I'll fork over the $15.99. I'm not too concerned about Oswalt featuring his late wife. The reviews sound good.

It sucks to have to wait a week for new episodes. The binge watch model has made that feel so outdated.

Some of the victims said they smelled him before seeing him. He gave-off some kind of feral odor.

^^that's chilling, for some reason.

R139, a lot of his M.O. was chilling. Stacking plates on the husband/boyfriends' chest, etc.

What does everyone make of his open-mouthed gawking stare in court? A cheap attempt at trying to look feeble and non-threatening?

Yes, r140. It was an act. Investigators said that he was riding his motorcycle on the freeway when they were following him right before they arrested him. They said he was very fit and active for a man his age.

The sheer evil and depravity of this man is shocking.

[quote] Some of the victims said they smelled him before seeing him. He gave-off some kind of feral odor.

For a time it was thought he might have diabetes or some other disorder that caused the smell as opposed to just poor hygiene.

Bruce McArthur is never getting out... is he?

Of course you can steal it from streaming bootleg sites, r134, if that's your thing.

Welcome to the 21st century r144. How was your trip?

This is a good link, just be sure you have a strong adblocker like ublock origin.

R146, thanks!

If you don't support good artwork financially, r145, you won't have good artwork.

Are you happy with what the average gay porn model looks like nowadays?

I couldn’t get that link to work. Also interested in seeing it but no HBO.

[quote]Are you happy with what the average gay porn model looks like nowadays?

Strangely enough, I've never gotten off on studio porn. I like the amateur stuff.

[quote]Some of the victims said they smelled him before seeing him.

He was fired from one of his police jobs for shoplifting dog repellent. I remember reading (before he was caught) that there was something that caused the search dogs to react very strangely to his scent at the crime scenes, but they couldn’t figure out what it was.

Maybe that’s what the victims were smelling?

Here's another link to stream it

I'm not interested in this case at all, but all this arguing against it is making me want to watch it

There's another docu-series on Showtime at the same time called Outcry

The Outcry doc sounds interesting

Very creepy episode tonight.

I find it telling that "police departments didn't communicate back then." The first detective wasn't even allowed to collaborate with later departments and told they didn't need his help. They said the cops in other departments were actually competitive with each other and didn't want the help of other departments because they saw them as failures.

That lack of communication and no internet is what enabled the GSK to get away with so many offenses for so long.

It's very interesting, because Ted Bundy exploited the same weakness in the system at the same time — moving to far-flung jurisdictions and even studying court and police systems from the inside as a law student before beginning his "career."

[quote] I find it telling that "police departments didn't communicate back then."

Not surprising. Rival California county police departments not collaborating is what helped Zodiac get away with his crimes as well.

I was on the edge of my seat when the blonde woman told the story of what happened to her. JFC it's too bad California doesn't have the death penalty, he deserves to fry for what he did to all of these people.

"That lack of communication and no internet is what enabled the GSK to get away with so many offenses for so long."

That and the fact that he had no serious criminal offenses on his record (at the time)

The 2nd episode was much better than the first episode, in part because there was so much less of St. Michelle of McNamara and much more about the GSK's crimes. Listening to the women talk about hat happened was interesting, because as upset as they were at what he had done to them, they seemed equally upset by how the society of the time made them feel responsible for what had happened to them, and how the police did not have the adequate procedures or (usually) enough women officers to help them properly after their rapes. It was amazing seeing the couple, because at first they seemed so close and loving, and then as they recounted it all you could feel the husband recoil from his shame at not being able to protect his wife, and they seemed more apart.

It was such a scary period. Serial killers and rapists got away with so much in those days in ways they just could not now.

Why did the East Area Rapist suddenly kill the Maggiores, as revealed at the end of this wek's episode? Apparently that set him permanently over the edge, and thereafter (after he moved out of Sacramento following this) he would kill people at his rape scenes.

The conjecture is that they were the first to see D'Angelo's face.

It's very interesting that the neighbor, who's still alive, saw him immediately after killing the Maggiores and D'Angelo had his mask off.

If I recall from past articles, D'Angelo wasn't raping the Maggiores at the time — they simply caught him trespassing and prowling with suspicious instruments.

He is such an evil man. The sheer number of women he raped--fifty--is astounding, even beyond the number of people he murdered (13 for sure, but probably many more).

And there were probably others police or reporters never knew about.

Ted Bundy was only convicted of killing 3 people. But at different points in his incarceration, he admitted to killing between 30 and 300!

He's pulling an Uncle Junior, trying to act feeble in court

[quote]Some of the victims said they smelled him before seeing him. He gave-off some kind of feral odor.

I don't recall them saying that of EAR/ONS, R138. Something like that was mentioned during discussion of some of the other rapists who were operating in California at the time - the "Stinky" rapist. There was also "the Car Key rapist," the "Early Bird rapist," and so on.

EAR/ONS was distinctly different from these others because of his modus operandi.

I'm enjoying this series very much.

No, he was smelly. A few victims said he had a bad odor that they couldn’t identify, except to say that it wasn’t regular BO or bad breath. Another described it as a musty, cinnamon-y smell. And this one is from I’ll Be Gone in the Dark:

[quote]The female victim had tried to explain the foul odor of her attacker to the reporting officer. She struggled to identify the smell. Bad hygiene wouldn’t account for it, she said. It didn’t come from his underarms, or his breath. The best the victim could say, the officer noted in his report, was that it seemed like a nervous smell that emanated not from a particular area on his body, but from his every pore. The officer asked is she could be more specific. She couldn’t. It wasn’t like anything she’d ever smelled before.

[quote] The conjecture is that they were the first to see D'Angelo's face.

He’d already been seen during the Snelling murder/attempted kidnapping.

For some reason, I can’t get into this one. The detail about his scent is super interesting, and terrifying. I’m imagining some pheromone gone into overdrive.

I’ve become obsessed with this case. The blond tent was really beautiful in those pics from when she was raped told a riveting story of the night she was attacked.

If he's dousing himself in dog repellent, that would really ramp-up his B.O.

I've never smelled dog repellent. Does it have a foul odor?

I saw episode one and thought it was good! Will watch episode 2 later.

Loved episode two.

Michelle M should get a lot of credit because she wrote the book that was the best seller. It excited lots of people about the case. Sure, there were tons of books about the killer before but hers was the one that caught the imagination.

It’s like Dan Brown and the DaVinci Code. Those theories about the Catholic Church ignoring Mary Magdalene’s role and contributions have been written down by scholars before but it was his book that caught the world’s imagination

R175 Was Michelle the name "The Golden State Killer," right? I remember that being mentioned in the last episode, or maybe I read about it somewhere else. Anyway, she deserves a ton of credit for assigning EAR/ONS a catchy name. I think that brought more attention to the case than the EAR/ONS acronym.

R175 Oh dear. I meant to write: "Michelle the was the one who coined the name "The Golden State Killer," right?"

I wonder if the show will explore GSK's earliest prowling days as the Visalia Ransacker?

This guy had a ton of nicknames! Visalia Ransacker, East Area Rapist, Original Night Stalker, Golden State Killer.

VR/EAR/ONS/GSK

It's why the case isn't as well known as it should be!!

I’m sure I’m in the minority but seeing EAR/ONS written somewhere with no explanation was what piqued my interest. I googled it right away because it just looked so weird to me and I had to know what it meant.

I don’t think I would have given the Golden State Killer a second thought.

Golden State Killer is so blah and generic. When hearing “Golden State” most people think basketball.

Original Night Stalker at least is intriguing. Most people old enough remember Richard Ramirez’s reign of terror. The idea that there was someone earlier just as evil, the original version, piques interest.

That said, I understand why the name charge helped to publicize the case.

The LA Mag editor is intolerable. Every thought is so scripted.

"I had a tall Long Iskand Iced Tea and I just kept drinking it as Michelle told me the story over three hours."

Really. The SAME drink? Three hours? Bitch, please.

The picture which was drawn by a boy was very accurate

R183 Why are you so LITERAL?

[quote] This guy had a ton of nicknames! Visalia Ransacker, East Area Rapist, Original Night Stalker, Golden State Killer.

Golden State Killer was to consolidate the toehr three names once it turned out they were one and the same. They used "Golden State" because he (surprisingly) covered a lot of the state of California from Visalia and Stockton and Stockton and Modesto the far southern part of the state.

EAR/ONS was a ridiculous acronym and made him sound like a late night TV commercial. "EAR/ONS... apply directly to the forehead!"

I'm sure the stink was dog repellent--he seemed to really fear large dogs.

I'm surprised there was a female detective in charge of the case, as I would think that must have been a real rarity anywhere in the U.S. in the late '70s?

It makes sense they would put a female in charge or company with an investigation to crimes where females were the victims.

The doc is trying to make it seem like nobody cared about women in the '70s or that rape wasn't considered a big deal, which is B.S.

[quote] It makes sense they would put a female in charge or company with an investigation to crimes where females were the victims.

A good move. According to the rape victims, it appears Detective Daly had a very calming presence for them.

R189, there may have been some good cops, but generally they did not treat rape victims well

I find the parts about Michelle to be the weakest link of this story. I find myself thinking about how unbearable life must have been like for Patton being married to her and her obsession.

R192, he must have really loved her? He was already famous when they met -- he could have had any number of young Hollywood bimbos if he was a shallow type and wanted some trophy wife.

Patton wanted to be mothered and she did exactly that. Classic straight guy who is clueless at taking care of himself. She did laundry, cooked, took care of the kid, etc. After she passed, it was only a few months before he found a replacement.

"Marriage is a bribe to make a housekeeper think she's a householder."

Patton was little and squirely, I don't know how much ass he could get.

[quote] Patton was little and squirely, I don't know how much ass he could get.

Please. Plenty of ambitious, young women (and men) in this city who would romance a famous/semi-famous man who can help them get a leg up career-wise -- regardless of his physical appearance.

r196 when he dated his first wife he was less famous, he was mostly known for King of Queens. The last 10 years he has gotten more popular.

Several people wondered above why he would have killed the Maggiores, since as far as we know, he had never killed before but It wasn't the first time he'd been seen..

We'll probably never know but some people who have investigated wonder whether one or both of the Maggiores not only saw his face but maybe recognized him. Researchers have found plausible situations where their paths might have crossed. But again, nothing definite, nothing conclusive, just possibilities.

Sorry to be so vague but it's been years since I've read about the case until recently.

I can't be the only one wondering if McNamara's sleuthing pal, the queeny Paul Hanes who moved to LA, is a DLer?

[quote]If I recall from past articles, D'Angelo wasn't raping the Maggiores at the time — they simply caught him trespassing and prowling with suspicious instruments.

Yes, this is what most people assume. We know he cased houses before hand. They problem caught him prowling an connected the dots that he was likely the famous rapist from the news. Therefore he had to kill them.

If things worked out differently, he could have been caught then.

[quote]I can't be the only one wondering if McNamara's sleuthing pal, the queeny Paul Hanes who moved to LA, is a DLer?

Do we really need to wonder? Of course he has come here. He is an internet-obsessed gay guy.

r195 = clueless gay man who doesn't understand women.

Gay guys have never given two fucks about understanding women. They're somebody else's problem, not ours.

I love D'Angelo's soul sound

Great show but I am officially on board that Michelle's tangential connection to this story is bogus. I don't care about her obsession or her book. Ultimately she did not have fuck all to do with his capture... And she must have had some serious demons... The entire Patton/Michelle thing is dark and weird..

Patton is really off putting as well....

So glad they caught this motherfucker.

Is there a new episode today?

It was last night r206

R207, thanks! Something to watch later on.

Last night's episode was really creepy.

And I know creepy stuff happens all over the world, but California definitely seems to have more than it's share of scary shit.

California and Texas

Too much time is being spent on her life. Who gives a fuck how she was raised? This series should've focused on the GSK. In the recent episode, they just breezed through the multiple murders he committed - no interviews with family members except for one or two, no analysis of how terrified the community was - so we could get half the episode devoted to how fucked up McNamara's relationship with her mother was. Again, who gives a fuck?

I find myself feeling pity for Michelle, mostly. I did eye roll when she blamed the Golden State killer for preventing her from spending time with her daughter because she was obsessed with the case! Huh?!? It’s not the GSK’s fault she had no self control and couldn’t maintain a healthy balance!!!!

r211, If you have cable or can find it streaming online, Investigation Discovery (the ID channel) aired a four-part docuseries about the case in early 2018, right before he was apprehended. It definitely covers more of the investigation and more interviews with the victims. It's called, 'Golden State Killer: It's Not Over'. It was pretty comprehensive.

Did Michelle count as a frau?

[quote] And I know creepy stuff happens all over the world, but California definitely seems to have more than it's share of scary shit.

We certainly never have a boring news day out here!

What am I, chopped liver?

too much Michelle in this episode

R217, I was about to say -- people not into McNamara's story will find this episode a trudge to get through.

Back to the case: Did D'Angelo live in Southern California during the time that his crimes shifted from rapes in Sacramento to murders in Orange, Ventura, and Santa Barbara counties?

The book she wrote is the basis for this series, but I agree, I don't really care about her relationship with her mother, or her spoiled childhood in Oak Park.

R219, everybody interviewed says she didn't crave the spotlight or attention. She probably would have wanted more attention on her investigation and the crimes, and less on her personal relationships.

I suppose her widower's thirst may be part of that, R220.

Honestly, her resemblance to Aunt Diane Schuler is affecting my subconscious and making me find her creepy and off-putting.

If she's from SOUTH Oak Park (south of the Lake St/Green El), she's not likely to be spoiled.

I looked forward to the book, as I enjoy good true crime non-fiction. I found it tedious to get through--I'm having the same experience with the show, so I guess I would say they've been true to it.

Go, Huskies!

And Florida!

The 2nd episode was the best because it had the least about Michelle.

This episode last was more Michelle hagiography: "Oh, everyone kept saying she was the best writer they had ever seen!" "My wife is a hundred times smarter than me!" etc. They're only barely talking about her pill addiction.

Patton was known as an expert pussy licker. I wonder if he liked Michelle’s taste

Is Michelle's blog still online?

R212- I ROLLED MY EYES TOO!!!!!

Are these voiceovers her??? Anything involving her is beyond annoying. I don't give a fuck (may she RIP) about her childhood...

Again, this forced connection between Michelle and this story/killer is so ridiculous.

The great part of this show is meeting the victims finally, and hearing their stories.

Michelle (and that Patton- ICK!) are like interlopers. It sucks and ruins what could have been a decent documentary series.

The real heroes in this case are Carol Daly, one of the original detectives from the 70s who kept meticulous journals about each and every rape case, which became an important tool for creating a timeline, and HOT AF Paul Holes, the Contra Costa County detective who came up with the idea to test all the DNA to try and find a match. The series should have focused on them. They both give great interview too. McNamara wrote a book, but what's in the book mostly came from Daly and Holes.

I didn't need twenty fucking minutes on McNamara's stupid childhood and cunt mother. That has nothing to do with this case.

I could have done without their sloppy texts.

I like seeing the case through McNamara’s eyes and experiences. She’s the thread that pulls it together.

R222, the woman behind this series, Liz Garbus, also directed There's Something Wrong with Aunt Diane. She sort of looks like both Diane and Michelle.

[quote]The real heroes in this case are Carol Daly, one of the original detectives from the 70s who kept meticulous journals about each and every rape case, which became an important tool for creating a timeline, and HOT AF Paul Holes, the Contra Costa County detective who came up with the idea to test all the DNA to try and find a match. The series should have focused on them.

Well, yes and no. The HBO series is based on her histrionic book about her obsession with the case so in that sense the HBO docudrama authentic to its source.

But of you want a serious discussion about the case, and who was responsible for solving it, this is not the place to start or go to for it.

I used to live in this area of Sacramento and would go walking along the river by myself alone along the elevated bike trail that runs behind people’s back yards. You can see right down into their yards and patios so it’s no wonder this freak knew what was up with folks.

I lived there in the 90s and 00s so I had no idea about this serial killer, but watching the doc and remembering all the times I walked that area after the sun went down by myself gives me the creeps. The river gets eerily quiet.

Familial DNA was well known before Holes applied it this case. There are so many L&O episodes, its spinoffs, CSI and other police procedurals from the the first decade of the 21st century where it is applied to solve cases. Usually there are questions about its legality. It was not an unknown thing before Holes decided to apply it to this case.

It wasn't just the familial DNA, Holes also had to do detective work to piece together the family tree. Countless documents, court files etc.

R232 is right. It's the trifecta of frau.

Well, r236, the genealogical work that had to be to be done along side of the DNA work was always part of the equation. One original L&O episode was about where they tracked the DNA to the son of a dead guy but it turned out he was a pussy hound who had six illegitimate sons. They had fun trying to narrow down the actaual perp..

It was Paul Holes who linked the EARONS and Original Night Stalker cases, I believe.

R235 Well, I guess because they did it on L&O it doesn't matter if someone did it in real life or not. A tv show beat them to it!!

Patton even looks like Aunt Diane's husband

Interestingly, Liz Garbus actually has some life behind her eyes, despite how frau-y she looks. Can't say the same about Michelle or Diane.

Matt Oswalt who is Patton's brother also seems a little odd.

R235, here. My apologies, The L&O episode i wrote about was actually a spin off SVU episode from 2015, linked below. But it supports my point that familial DNA was a well known concept before Paul Holes decided to apply it to this case.

Make no mistake. I admire Paul Holes and he solved this case,

So, just because it was a well known concept... he gets no credit? It appeared on Law & Order, so... so what? Can you please elaborate.

What is there to elaborate, r247? I said above that he took a well known contemporary concept and applied it to a famous series of crimes he had been investigating for decades and got a positive result. I said that he deserves credit for solving these famous crimes. What more do you want?

The first time I ever heard about this case, it was through Larry Crompton's site, I believe. He had an EAR/ONS site and message board, with the phone recordings of D'Angelo. This was some years before McNamara came onto the scene.

I had always meant to read his book "Sudden Terror" but never got around to it. In retrospect, it might still be interesting to see how close/far off he was.

[quote] Are these voiceovers her???

No. The credits list Amy Ryan as voiceover narrator, I believe.

I love Amy Ryan. She captures Michelle's "obsessive frau" voice perfectly.

According to Rolling Stone, Episode 6 is the best in the bunch.

If there's anybody whose backstory I'm interested in, it's Michelle's queeny partner in crime, Paul Haynes. I want to know more about his gay websleuthing life.

I'm ready for episode four.

Watching episode 3. Michelle searches high and low on sites like ebay for personal items the GSK took from his victims and buys some cufflinks. She presents them to the investigstor and he is overjoyed. They turn out not to be the right cufflinks.

Gee, thanks Michelle.

Maybe spend a little more time with your daughter and a little less time doing drugs and scouring the internet for cuff links?

Okay... so basically some chunky Frau comes along and takes credit for 40 years of other people’s work?

I don't see why Michelle's relationship with her mother is relevant. Who cares?

I don't like how giddy she is when she talks about the case and the victims, etc in the footage. This was all very tragic and she was acting like it was a fun game.

It is an intriguing story but this is Peak Frau.

I think they are intimating the mother/daughter relationship contributed to the drug addiction. Having to deal with her mother during her father's decline and death was difficult for Michelle.

I believe it to be a slight suggestion, without actually saying it.

Agreed R256! Nice synopsis.

Her book and everything else has a PISS IN THE WIND connection to the story

This series is better--the story minus all the frau-ness

I agree r261. It focuses on the actual case and the many people who worked to find the GSK over 40 years. This fat frau sitting on the couch bullshit is ruining this series. I FF through those parts.

Here's the update on that series after they caught him. R262 I do the same thing with the frau-fest. All the fat frau interviews talking about how wonderful she was seems fake and repetitive. Like most series these days, there is a ton of filler to add additional episodes.

No one cares.

R262 She was a victim, too! It was the GSK's fault that she was too obsessed with the case to pay attention to her daughter!!!!

I’ve only watched part of episode one. I was like lmeh”. Michelle is annoying to me. Is this series actually worth watching? Or should I watch the other series mentioned at R261?

Was episode 4 any good? Should I bother?

Honestly I find this series tedious. It's interesting because I lived in that area, but I feel like the focus isn't compelling enough. I had to watch episode 4 in two sittings. I recommended the series above and found it much more to my liking since it focuses on the series. This one is a frau-fest.

[quote] Michelle is annoying to me. Is this series actually worth watching?

I'm enjoying it. I don't find McNamara very compelling, but I don't find her that bothersome either -- if it gets too much, I can just fast-forward through those parts.

[quote] Michelle is annoying to me. Is this series actually worth watching?

I'm enjoying it. I don't find McNamara very compelling, but I don't find her that bothersome either -- if it gets too much, I can just fast-forward through those parts.

At this point, I kind of feel the need to see it through until Michelle dies, which isn't the point of the series.

I'm mad at myself for starting to watch it because I'm one of those people who commits to shows once I start watching them.

Listening to the actual victims describe what happened to them is the only reason I am continuing to watch. The yippy yappy frau parts suck.

Honestly, this series is kind of a waste because of the Michelle book angle...

Its VERY stilted and awkward because of her and that husband of hers having to angle their way into it.

It should have been a straight up documentary.

Larry Crompton's book was OUTSTANDING due to its detail. However it was very repetitive and almost boring because it focused on the rapes and robberies prior to this lunatic starting to murder people.. I would rather see Larry be the soul "expert" in the documentary not Michelle. Frankly, she was just a true crime person like many folks in this thread. Her book wasn't that great.

I am not sure, but in that scene where Patton is signing copy after copy of books, is he signing his own book, or Michelle's?

That kind of seemed odd to me, and made me feel like this was one big infomercial for her book. It's smells like one of those fraufest Oprah book picks that becomes a best seller more out of marketing than actual merit.

The doc seems be a frau-centric focus on their love story, her untimely death before she got credit for being an incredible writer/sleuth, and her book that supposedly cracked the case--all with victim interviews plugged in between. It just feels very convoluted and repetitive.

I’m actually enjoying the show. I like the Michelle angle as it give a twist that wouldn’t be found in just a recitation if events

I just finished the newest episode. She OD’ed on a combo of Fentanyl, Xanax and Adderall. And apparently she was sniffing around looking for pills from people. How the fuck did Patton Oswalt not award tjst they’re was a problem? Or was he in denial.

She’s trying to write a book, doing all these drugs and she texts him that she wants another baby. And he replies back via text. Wouldn’t you have that conversation in person? It’s coming across like he wasn’t only immature and putting a lot of responsibilities onto her while she was working on the biggest thing in her, he’s also disconnected from her . It’s odd.

“How the fuck did Patton Oswalt not know there was a problem” is what I meant to write.

With this last episode I really connected with her as a frau. I feel like frauen are under so much pressure to be accomplished professionally, all while being a wife, mom and maintaining a household. It's no wonder Karens lose their minds. I really think there is some kind of psychosis at play due to stress and anxiety. I wish there were fraus here to ask about this.

He was signing her book, r273.

I just started episode 4. WTF does Michelle hooking up with her boss have to do with the GSK? This is bullshit!

Oh, there are, R277, and true crime threads are their catnip.

Read a poster's comment at Reddit from someone who has seen the entire series and the poster said that the last episode is the best.

R275 Oh, he had to know there was a problem. Unless he was too busy playing video games, which I think is also likely.

Were his texts to her at the end of the doc... coming from inside the house? People text each other when they live together? That seems strange for a married couple, IMO. In the doc it seems like he went away and came back to find her dead, but in this article (from the renowned magazine SELF) it says he was in his office. Hmm, interesting.

Are we sure Patton isn't a Datalounger?

Michelle: I can't sleep anymore. I sleep no more than two hours every night. When I do fall asleep I have horrible nightmares. I can't get the crime-scene photos out of my mind. Last night I had the worst nightmare I've ever had. Maybe I should stop taking Xanax. If I don't take Xanax, I'll never sleep. I have to stop taking Xanax.

Patton: I'll be right there.

Michelle: There's nothing you can do.

Patton: Okay, sweetie. TTYL!

Did they test the coffee? How do they know Patton didn't drug her?

I don't believe Patton had a hand in her death, but it sure seems like he's relieved of a huge burden now that she's gone. Where was this woman's life going to go? Nowhere positive. She would have been in and out of rehab. That would be horrible for that poor child. Either way, it seems like Michele was destined to die a Michael Jackson/Prince death. It's better that the daughter was younger.

Having said all that, there is still something that bothers me about Patton. It's the same thing that bothers me about Michelle. They both seem to make the GSK killings about themselves and not the victims. They are both too giddy about all of it. It doesn't sit right.

She was very busy writing her book and doing the research. She likely told Patton not to bother her. So they texted, even while in the same house.

This story reminds me of how women become eternal victims and wallow like a pig in slop, but expect men to move on. I’ve discussed major traumas I’ve had in my life and girlfriends always say to move on, because I’m a man. Well, Bitches! MOVE ON! He raped you, it’s the past. Get over it.

The Fraus have turned this looney OCD bitch into a Saint.

She’s a Justified Junkie like so many Mommies nowadays. Fraus are so selfish & entitled.

Coming soon to Lifetime!

[italic]I'll Be Gone by the Morning: The Michelle McNamara Story[/italic]

Starring Patton Oswalt as Patton Oswalt

Patton Oswalt as Alice

Jesse Tyler Ferguson as Paul Haynes

And in her Lifetime debut, Celeste Barber as Michelle McNamara

Mother, May I Attention-Seek with Danger?...: The Michelle McNamara Story

I do have to say that this episode was too much Michelle, moreso than the others. Online reviews have sort of skirted around the 50/50 GSK/Michelle ratio of content. But well, nobody wants to be that asshole to come right out and say it's too much content about the deceased author... I do think a 75/25 ratio would have worked better.

R281, yeah, the last episode is supposed to be the best. 441`5

I really like and felt for the couple who shared their horrific experience. The husband said to the wife, "You went through so much more than I did," and she replied, " Well you more than made up for it over the years with how you've taken care of me. Other men would have left." Then he grabbed her hand. It made me tear up.

I know, I know, MARY!

"Fraus are so selfish & entitled."

I know right? Said every lazy ass husband everywhere.

R285, you obviously didn't read the book. She has a great deal of sympathy for the victims. There are some trolls here who hate Michelle and Patton, yet bizarrely watch this show every week.

Someday we'll find it, The Fraüen Connection, the whiners, the screamers, and me.....

⏫⏫⏫⏫

I don't think a lot of people on this thread read the book.

I'm glad she had sympathy for the victims.

I read the book but forget the profile of who Michelle thought the GSK was. Was she the one who thought it would be a rancher/ranch-hand because of his knowledge of intricate knots?

I am on the edge of my seat when the victims tell their stories. The detectives also have my full attention. And then it switches back to Michelle and her boring frau shit and I'm like "FUCK! It was just getting interesting!"

Did we really need ten minutes on how the boxes of evidence were dragged into two SUVs and where was Michelle going to store them in her house?

Yeah--the whole Mission Impossible evidence box heist sequence was corny and seemed out of place given the gravity of the rest of the material. Why we needed a complete re-enactment is beyond me. That one couple who survived and shared their testimony are really compelling. You really get a sense of how they each struggled differently, and how their love for each other helped them endure and survive over the years. I loved how they got re-married in their new back yard. That couple really redeems many of other things I don't like about this series.

[quote] Was she the one who thought it would be a rancher/ranch-hand because of his knowledge of intricate knots?

Yep. In spite of most available evidence pointing to a military background, McNamara insisted GSK was a ranchhand. She also claimed he would have a German surname or background.

So many women are true crime fans. That's who this series is for. If you don't like it, don't watch. There's another documentary about this.

I couldn't believe Patton said no, to having another baby. Why didn't he want one?

And her overdosing on Fentanyl is strange. She had to have been buying street drugs

R302, Fentanyl is one of the easiest opioids to OD from. It is extremely powerful. But she also had Xanax and Adderall in her system when she died.

People OD on Fentanyl every day.

I'm assuming R302 was referencing the fact that fentanyl isn't a commonly prescribed opioid pain medicine, except for cancer pain or debilitating chronic pain (mostly in the form of the fentanyl transdermal patch/Duragesic), so more than likely, Michelle bought pills off the street, likely sold as oxycodone or similar, but were pressed illicit fentanyl made to look like oxycodone/similar opioid pills. Besides using fentanyl to increase the potency of heroin and dealers not telling users, sometimes resulting in a "hot-spot" that's more fentanyl than heroin, it's the most common way for people to OD on fentanyl: they think they're buying 30 mg oxycodone/Roxicodone pills, but it's really pressed fentanyl.

[quote] I love Amy Ryan. She captures Michelle's "obsessive frau" voice perfectly.

R251, I agree. Amy Ryan deserves an Emmy for her frausleuth voiceover work -- perfect pitch and tone. What a goddess!

Aren't there other Netflix/YT/cable documentaries that go into the EAR./ONS crimes without resorting to this HBO mess?

Did Michelle like speaking to managers?

Golden State Killer: It's Not Over and Unmasking A Killer are multi-part documentaries that are both on Amazon Prime and should be on your OnDemand, depending on what cable company you have. They're both very thorough and concentrate solely on the case.

I will give McNamara credit for believing GSK was still alive and a free man. Many thought he was either dead or imprisoned -- I thought so as well.

I guess I didn't pay enough attention to Michelle's death when it happened. For some reason I thought she died of cancer, and I kept waiting for that to come up, and NOPE, she just OD'd.

She did predict correctly that the killer likely found a wife and settled down.

worst episode so far

Best episodes are about the victims and survivors telling their stories. Carol the detective, Blond from Episode 2 told her story and the couple from last night need their own documentary.

How come the other officers who worked with the GSK haven't talked about him? Not a lot has come out about his personal life

[Quote]I couldn't believe Patton said no, to having another baby. Why didn't he want one?

Its unbelievable to you that someone wouldn't want to have more kids? Seriously?!

It's understandable that if people thought they'd be getting a documentary about the Golden State Killer, and but when they instead get a documentary about Michelle McNamara they would be upset r295.

Also when Michelle said she wanted another baby wasn’t she 45/46? That ship had sailed.

Plus she was a druggie

"It's understandable that if people thought they'd be getting a documentary about the Golden State Killer, and but when they instead get a documentary about Michelle McNamara they would be upset R295."

Not sure why they'd think it wouldn't at least partially about her life, since it's based on her book

R320, for me at least, it's not that the documentary is partially about Michelle -- it's that the content is 50/50 the actual case vs. McNamara's life. I don't remember her book having so much content about herself.

It's just a little jarring for the show to switch back and forth from EAR rape victims discussing their trauma to, say, Michelle complaining about deadlines or writer's block...

Three should be the bare minimum anyone is allowed to have, R316 — one to call 111, one to perform CPR, and one to inject the naloxone.

^^Make that 999.

Confusing one's countries is a common side effect of sobriety.

I agree the back and forth between the EAR interviews/details and Tales from Frau Manor are a little jarring. I get that it's integral to the story, but going from bloody crime scene photos and people being bludgeoned/raped, to daily frau drudgery seems odd. Also Michelle talking about regret sex she had in the nineties with a boss--and somehow questioning if it was rape???? It just feels like there's too much being included.

I decided to take a quick lurk over at Primetimer -- previously Previously TV, previously Television without Pity -- to see what the comments on this show were like.

Now I know exactly who this documentary was aimed towards!

It's bearable if you read every comment in Amy Ryan's voice!

Of course you were there....so you know it was "regret sex" *rolls eyes*

R326 Because now in metoo pathetic times , women often call themselves being raped when they just agreed to have sex, but actually they didnt have to(wanted to)

r327, you weren't there and don't know what happened. But being a right-wing, MRA troll, you can't resist a chance to bash the metoo movement

R328 I'm a woman, not a right wing nor left one. Stop with that childish bullshit. And stop people putting into a corner

R329 was probably raped and enjoyed it.

R329, sorry, you gave yourself away as a freeper with your trashy, right-wing comments. Why are Republican women trolling on a gay board? Go back to the Ann Coulter forums.

R330 Lol, no i wasnt

R331 right wing on DL? You drink too much. I just hate women who love making victims of themselves.

r332, I hate MRA trolls who insist that men are the real victims while accusing women of playing the victim. I hate women who spew right-wing talking points on gay forums.

R333 When you grow up, you will find out that world is not left/ring wing. Telling one particular thing doesnt make you ONLY one of those. So you hate men, so you are a feminist.OK. And I dont insist that men are real victims blablabla. You make up things. I know some women who post metoo on twitter and later after asking what happened to them privately , they are answering: oh, nothing dont bother ,I didnt want to be worse

I don't hate men, idiot. I hate right-wing MRA loons like you.

I read the book and it was decent but I did find the personal asides to be annoying and unnecessary. There are photos of Michelle in the book and it seems like at least 2 or 3 were in jammies or bathrobes. She wrote in bed with a little lap desk. I guess she had a bad back? Still, I wondered about her mental state because I got the impression she rarely got up and dressed in street clothes. .After her death I read Michelle was using Fentanyl patches and may have applied them too close together time-wise. I am sure the Xanax further depressed her CNS and cardiovascular system.

R336, I can't imagine getting anything accomplished in bed. I can't help but wonder if working at a proper desk might have helped her churn out material quicker.

Fentanyl patches. JFC. I have a relative who had terminal cancer, and was only allowed those at the end stage, just a few weeks left to live. That was the only time those patches were allowed, and they were still carefully monitored by the doctors and nurses.

Slapping those things on like they're nicotine patches (and when you're not terminally ill) is absolutely insane.

I HAD a relative, I meant to say....

[quote]I guess she had a bad back?

Back??

As you can see, I was tender to the touch ALL OVER.

She was a genuine mug cradler.

[quote] I know some women who post metoo on twitter

Jesus Christ, I know exactly which troll you are. Twitter is everything to you. You see some things on Twitter and you think the entire world has that same opinion.

Let's see if doing this way works.

What happened to #blessed?

[quote} world is not left/ring wing.

Oh, dear.

That picture of her in bed / her office is just peak frau.

Makes me wonder how many mug cradling fibro warriors are also drug-seeking secret junkies.

Bet the book editors interviewed for the show hated her. Missing deadlines, constant excuses, wonder if they suspected she was using?

And then she was trying to add another kid to the mix? They barely seemed to see each other even living in the same house. Makes me wonder if Patton had a side chick and liked that Michelle's obsession with the case and book kept her occupied and out of his hair. And sadly, yes, I think Patton could get a side chick.

Patton remarried just a few months later.

I hope someone eventually (soon) blows the lid off of Patton, how his marriage with his first wife REALLY was. Didn't seem like she was too happy, loaded up on everything including the kitchen sink. I also would like to know exactly when this new one came in on the scene. Their lurve story is so barfworthy it can't be true. It all stinks to high heaven. Especially his sweeping the fact she was a junkie under the rug. He had the means and motive for her to be out of the picture. I don't buy the beloved Patton act either. He may be funny at times, but he's got short fat man with small dick seething anger seeping out of every pore.

Per the autopsy report, there is no evidence that Michelle was prescribed, or even possessed, fentanyl in any form (patches, 'lollipop,' buccal tablet, etc.). There were, however, numerous pills contained within plastic baggies, as well as a white powdery substance in two vials, at the scene. The one vial of powder was identified as cocaine cut with levamisole (an antihelminthicm, aka anti-parasitic worm treatment); the other vial was identified as hydroxyephedrine. She also had a baggie containing five pills of 3-trifluoromethylphenylpiperazine (TFMPP), which is a party drug that, when taken with benzylpiperazine, acts similar to MDMA/ecstacy.

The remaining pills were "presumptively identified" (they didn't do GC/MS testing to positively identify the chemical makeup, but went by the imprint on the pills) as: 21 generic Percocet (oxycodone/acetaminophen); 6 generic oxycodone hydrochloride (Roxicodone); 16 generic Vicodin/Norco (hydrocodone/acetaminophen) and an unstated amount of dextroamphetamine pills (Dexedrine). And when Patton was asked where she obtained the alprazolam/Xanax, he told the investigator they were his.

Since she had no prescription history of these medications, and they were stored in plastic baggies, I think it's safe to say she was buying them off the street. As I said in R305, formulations of oxycodone (and hydrocodone, hydromorphone, oxymorphone, etc.) are often counterfeited by using a pill press with illicit fentanyl powder to make pills that look like Percocet, Vicodin, Dilaudid, etc. and sold to people as genuine pharmaceuticals. There is a high likelihood that one, or all, of the Percocet, Vicodin & Roxicodone pills were pressed illicit fentanyl and Michelle didn't know it (or maybe she did). Based on the powder & crushed pills, there is also a good chance Michelle crushed the pills and snorted them (that said, if she thought she had genuine Percocet & Vicodin, which both contain acetaminophen/Tylenol, you have to be a moron to snort them; that's a lot of powder and can burn & cause necrosis). However, if she had taken the pills orally, even if they were, indeed, fentanyl, there is a chance she would still be alive: fentanyl has a shitty oral bioavailability (which is why it comes in transdermal patches, transmucosal lollipops and buccal/sublingual dissolvable tablets, but not regular oral tablets), about 30% with ingestion, but by snorting fentanyl, you increase the bioavailability closer to 90%. Of course it's much easier to overdose on a drug if 90% of it is absorbed and reaches systemic circulation compared to 30% of it. Both the alprazolam and dextroamphetamine were within therapeutic dose range, but the fentanyl level was high; either she snorted it, thinking it was her "normal dose" of oxycodone; or she swallowed enough pills that even with its relatively low oral bioavailability, it was enough fentanyl to cause her to overdose. Oops? Won't make that same mistake twice, I'll bet.

I don't know how these pillheads do it. They just gobble up these strong-ass drugs like it's nothing, and combine various drugs together. I got vicodin after I broke my arm, years ago, and I was afraid to take even one because I didn't know how my body would process it.

It's crazy how people can just pop all these pills, I would be terrified.

The texting is starting to make sense. It was mentioned a few times that she had taken over the daughter's playroom to use as an office (when she wasn't in bed, of course). The playroom is actually a detached garage. You can see it at photo #16. Also, the ugly curved desk he described as a 'command centre' is at #9. Not very commanding.

[quote]A detached two-car garage at the rear of the property was converted to a children’s playroom and there’s a one-bedroom/one-bathroom guesthouse upstairs with living room, full kitchen and slender wrap-around terrace.

I'll MARY! myself in advance, but who would want to be alone out there with all of those uncovered windows, researching a serial killer? I suppose she could have been using the upstairs guest quarters and perhaps referred to the whole building as the playroom.

I want to fuck Paul Holes. That is all.

r347

On April 21, 2016, McNamara died in her sleep

He was confirmed to be engaged to actress Meredith Salenger in July 2017.[45] They were married in November 2017

He started dating months after it seems though

I still think that is very quick to start dating and to commit and marry someone. They had a child together! Mary!!

I'm suspicious of him, but oh well.

[quote] On April 21, 2016, McNamara died in her sleep

That's not a bad way to die.

Died in her sleep, or helped along?

Did they take any "pillow prints"?

[quote] I still think that is very quick to start dating and to commit and marry someone.

It’s quite common for widowed men to remarry quickly.

R325 This thread is so much more fun than that website!

Straight men are totally helpless creatures when it comes to day-to-day living and maintaining a house and they need a girlfriend or wife who is also a live-in maid. No surprise that he remarried so quickly, most straight men do because they can't function without a wife who is also their cook/housekeeper/personal shopper.

R359 True, but he was rich enough to afford to hire people to perform those functions. I doubt Miss Natty Gann or whatever the fuck role the new wife was known for is cleaning their terlits.

It was unseemly at best, but I still think some dark shit went down.

I'LL BE GONE IN THE Dfafdjfdsjfsdfddkjgdlksdl..........

R352, take a number from the butcher counter! I'm sure miss websleuthing thang Paul Haynes has already tried to get the other Paul to fill his Holes.

Oh I'm sure Paul Haynes was all flustered and atwitter during his meetings with Paul Holes. Probably tried to do some subtle flirting to see if anything would happen.

Your name is Paul; my name is Paul. Your name starts with H and ends in ES; my name starts with H and ends in ES. Can't you see? It's like we're the same person, so there won't be anything gay about it. Then call me by your name.

🎶 Paul and Paul sittin in a tree!

K-I-S-S-I-N-G !

First comes rape!

Then comes murders!

Then comes Michelle and her overdose! 🎶

They have such a romantic story of how they met and fell in love.

Miss Paul Haynes is the breakout star of this show.

Paul Haynes gives off the vibe that he's the kind of queen who can go from zero to cunt in two seconds. We all know the type.

R367, lol. I can so see that. And yes, I know the type.

For the record I'm not denigrating Paul Haynes, the "I'm nice, then I'm a cunt" guys can be great fun.

New episode tonight? Hopefully Paul Holes is featured heavily.

R370, I have a feeling episode 5 will be mainly about the aftermath of Michelle's death.

Somehow they neglected to mention that Patton Oswalt was married to a new woman the very next year.

Guess that doesn't fit the narrative...

r372, it's not about his new wife.

Of course not r373, but this episode featured a lot of story time devoted to Patton dealing with Michele's death. It was an obvious omission, not a surprising one, but clearly a topic they wanted to avoid.

If not for genealogy sites he really would have never been caught. As Haynes admitted, in spite of of all his and Michele's obsession the real killer was never on their radar. No one on their master list even matched.

You said it r374, and WHY? Be open and up front about it. The fact it is so buried (no pun intended) and the whole "nothing to see here" vibe speaks loudly to me. Again, he might be a big deal in the industry, (not that big of a deal, let's be honest) but I don't think for a second that he hasn't been investigated, and very possibly still is. Wouldn't that be an interesting twist to all of this?

I would really like to know how Alice is doing FOR REAL, not the happy couple's little fairy tale about how new wife is even better than old wife/actual mother and Alice couldn't be happier. I'm not a kid person, but the photos I've seen...She ain't that fucking happy.

"Be open and up front about it. The fact it is so buried (no pun intended) and the whole "nothing to see here" vibe speaks loudly to me. Again, he might be a big deal in the industry, (not that big of a deal, let's be honest) but I don't think for a second that he hasn't been investigated, and very possibly still is."

Sigh, I know you weirdos think it's bizarre for a young widower with a kid to remarry but it really isn't. You're just looking for ANY reason to slam him. It's not "buried" - the show is called "I'll Be Gone in the Dark" not "Patton Oswalt's Second Wife"

"I would really like to know how Alice is doing FOR REAL, not the happy couple's little fairy tale about how new wife is even better than old wife/actual mother and Alice couldn't be happier. I'm not a kid person, but the photos I've seen...She ain't that fucking happy."

I guess you're a psychic and can read people's thoughts, so you know how she really feels. Not that you give a shit, because, again, you're just looking for a reason to slam Patton

im sooo into it

where can i see the whole series???? i cant wait....

Yes, it's not about Oswald first wife nor his second. It's about EAR/ONS. That why this irrelevant series is so disappointing.

She only had 150 pages written at the time of her death?

Oh, dear.

To be fair, sheeee ha,,,,, ha had wri tte n 30hun therreee 300 pagge but 10fiff150 ofTh em triallll traill ed

offfffff..f,,,,ffffggfgfgfgggggfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff,,,,,,,

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Patton? Is that you?

forget her, cant they jus tell the thriller story bout catchin the killer?

We don't have to tune out OR shut up about what we don't like, r302.

This isn't an either/or. Some of my favorite shows have shitty aspects and it's important to discuss them.

I'm watching for the victims' stories, the story of solving the case and because I'm a Patton Oswalt fan. I don't have to like the McNamara interloping, though I don't hate it and thank her for her concern.

You really only discuss shows you have 100% pure love for?

Yeah, so she had a family history of addiction and depression. I dunno, I didn't think anything of it when she said she was taking Ritalin to wake up every day and Vicodin to go to sleep. I mean, she said it so casually... What the fuck do I know?

Let's be clear about why HBO and HarperCollins are emphasizing McNamara:

To make dark, grisly subject matter more palatable to female consumers. That's why they don't get too deep into shaming Patton. Many female consumers have a high interest in the subject matter but it's uncomfortable to process. They also want a way to feel less guilty and alone in horror and tragedy porn.

The particulars of Joseph D'Angelo's crimes are despicable, evil and sad. The McNamara stuff is a way to lighten the piece up with people that female viewers can relate to. It's their chance to come up for air after hearing about latest moonlight prowl of the victim getting raped with a knife to their throat and then bludgeoned to death while we listen to psychotic death threats on the phone. And they have a point that some male-oriented True Crime gets too lurid for the male gaze/ violence porn gaze.

So, I get why they're doing it I actually think there need to be softer, leavened versions of these stories with Women's Interest angles to help squeamish people through it, because too often people bury their heads in the sand about topics like this in the world they need to be aware of.

As long as I get a good series like CONVERSATIONS WITH A KILLER out of D'Angelo's story, case and victims, I'll be happy. And I'm sure I'll have plenty of those before my life is up.

Was this episode any good? I have not yet watched it.

It was boring except for the interviews with Paul Holes! They came through with some Paul Holes for us!

Patton was talking about the grief 6 months and one year after her death. It sounded very sincere. But knowing that he was already remarried at that time takes all the sincerity out of it. It was a bad decision not to address it at all. It makes him seem suspicious and brings an "oddness" to the documentary.

He could have just said he was remarried and expressed his feelings about the grief at the same time and explained it.

I don't care about any damn DNA, Patton was the real EAR/ONS and offed his wife when he realized she was getting too close to the truth. Then he remarried a more compliant woman.

Prove me wrong.

Well, there’s the little problem of his DOB, R390. 4-year olds are generally not capable of producing sperm. Or subduing adult females.

There are some nice parts r397. When they discuss creating the DNA profile and the family tree and how they have to start going through possible candidates until they find him, that's great, the type of stuff I am interested in.

But unfortunately that is limited to about 10-15 minutes of the episode.

If you really wanted a female angle, Barbara Rae-Venter is an amazing woman who unlike Michele her work actually led to solving this case.

R361 might be the funniest thing I’ve ever seen on Datalounge

As has been mentioned, the two other docs about this case are much better.

Ep 5 sucked chunky frau junkie tits

I found it boring at least the parts that focused on McNamara. And disturbing that she was so drug dependent with her little girl running about. I couldn’t finish watching it due to disinterest.

R396 I thought it was funny the mention of her own mom being cold but raising 6 kids with no help. Just a reminder of what entitled Disney Princesses women of newer generations have become, they could never handle what the older women went through. Now those women had grit & class. This new gang has one kid they dump on the pussy-whipped Hubby and they’re passed out with a box of wine & Vicodin at 1am and up with Adderall and Starbucks maybe by 9am... maybe. Just to spend all day bitching how nothing and no one is good enough. Pathetic.

Michele's life is a tragedy. A drug-addled woman obsessed with this story to the detriment of everything around her. And what did the obsession lead to? Michele got nowhere close to his identity and her work had nothing to do with him being captured. That's always the problem with the Michele angle. It worked when the killer was still an unknown at the time the book was published, but once his capture had nothing to do with her it pushes her research and obsession into irrelevancy and the sad behavior of a damaged soul.

Ms. Haynes has an Instagram

Patton should establish a Michelle McNamara Literary Frau Award. It could help pave the way for other fraus want to write a book while being a stay at home mom.

r397 that is a perfect summary. Love you!

They have yet to show Paul's Holes.

No, r394, they're not, just McNamara-free.

Neither GOLDEN STATE KILLER: IT'S NOT OVER nor UNMASKING A KILLER have interviews with the victims and updates on their current lives as in-depth.

Both of those series were quickly thrown together by broadcast by news networks right after DeAngelo was apprehended.

So it's great that Paul describes his Holes without fraustractions. But none of these documentaries have investigated the DeAngelo side thoroughly.

I want to see interviews with DeAngelo's coworkers, families and friends about what he was doing, specific incidents and how he played innocent when he was charged with apprehending the killer and defending people from himself.

I want the interviews with DeAngelo himself, confessing more shit that he did and his takes on other crimes he's been accused of.

There are many things none of these documentaries could say or explore because DeAngelo wasn't even convicted yet. I want to see court proceedings and revelations.

A comprehensive series has yet to be made and we may have to wait until DeAngelo's deathbed to get the real scoop.

The shows so far are mediocre.

r403 there were interviews with several of the victims in both documentaries.

[quote]I want to see interviews with DeAngelo's coworkers, families and friends about what he was doing, specific incidents and how he played innocent when he was charged with apprehending the killer and defending people from himself.

His family isn't talking. Two coworkers and two neighbors were interviewed on one or both of the other docs.

Does this address McNamara's drug use at all?

When does Ep. 6 run? Isn't it supposed to be better than the others?

"Now those women had grit & class."

Oh yeah, these women knew their place. Unpaid domestic labor, no career prospects and limited contraceptive choices.

Fuck you.

r408 that's not what was meant by that poster's statement.

How can someone be on so many drugs and so obsessed with this killer, and yet also "very much still a mother to Alice," as one of her sisters said.

I don't buy that for one minute. I also don't buy that Patton didn't see that she had a problem. And hello! When your wife and the mother of your child tells you that she's taking drugs to wake up and go to sleep EVERY DAY, that is a problem, dumb shit Patton!

Not buying his b.s. either.

R408 drop dead, Psycho Frau.

PLOT TWIST. Paul Haynes gave McNamara the bad fentanyl. He was tired of the frau hogging the spotlight and wanted to be the new face solving this crime!

Paul Haynes: The Crimesolver Bitch Kween

Next Fall on A&E

Did Joseph DeAngelo buy a copy of I'll Be Gone in the Dark?

Paul Haynes: Bitch I Got YOUR Number.

The new series starring America's sassiest citizen detective. Only on Discovery ID.

Paul Haynes: CSI (Cocksucking Investigator)

Paul & Hors d'oeuvres: SVU - a drama about a nelly detective who solves crimes at his weekly cocktail party.

Old Cock Files: Give Me That DNA, Daddy

So our GSK was left by Bonnie, who jaughed at his small dick so he raped women in retaliation and killed some of them , right?

I think that about sums it up.

[quote] I want the interviews with DeAngelo himself

Those don’t exist, and aren’t going to. He’s never going to talk. His family is mostly not talking either, except for his wife’s brother, who didn’t have much of interest to say.

It’s possible that his wife and daughters might give interviews eventually, but not any time soon.

Well it started with him breaking into houses r217. Violating women's privacy, going through their underwear. He did that for a long time before he escalated to raping anyone. And he only raped for a long time before he escalated to killing his victims.

Joseph is one of the clearest examples of how someone perversions can escalate over time as they need more and more to give them the rush.

R420 Yes,but maybe he decided raping them after breaking up with Bonnie.

This episode was painfully long to get through.

r422 Painfully long? Try being married to her. You'll know what long feels like. - Patton

I can hear it now: * Patton's patented whine on the kitchen phone:

"Hurry up you guyz! Every morning, still alive! What the fuck? I'm fucking sick of it. Natty says no sex until the deed is done and she's wearing the ring. I just sent you more money. Find a firmer pillow and some stronger drugs. Grab me some donuts while you're out. What? No, two boxes is fine, I'm trying to get in shape in time for the wedding." *

R417, DeAngelo witnessed the assault of his sister on an army base when they were both children. I think that was primary reason he later on became deranged himself. Not much else seems to be known about him during his teen years, early adult years -- I'm sure someone is working on a book.

It's weird, actually, how little has come out about D'Angelo as a person and his life. Surely there are people out there who casually knew him, worked with him, etc. over the years, other than the neighbors who have already commented.

Yes, there isn't a deep dive into D'Angelo yet out there. I think a lot of us were hoping this documentary would have some of that, and of course we are left high and dry. I guess maybe episode 6...

I'm sure when the trial concludes (if Dangelo doesn't die first, he looked at death's door in court the other week) we'll get another documentary that delves into his life.

R426, it is strange how little personal info there is about DeAngelo. The Sacramento Bee initially released a few articles which interviewed people around him -- a neighbor who said he was a private, grumpy man; a waitress who used to serve him at his favorite restaurant -- but ever since then, it's been all quiet.

A person who lived up the street from the GSK for six years did an AMA.

EARONS. Ugh. What a shitty acronym for a serial killer. It belongs to a low budget hearing aid advertised on late night TV.

[quote] When they discuss creating the DNA profile and the family tree and how they have to start going through possible candidates until they find him, that's great, the type of stuff I am interested in.

There's a pretty good program on ABC (Monday or Tuesdays) called the genetic detective and it goes into this a lot. It's based on the woman with long blonde hair who appeared on this show about Michelle

This thread is better than the show.

I thought I was getting gay vibes from Billy Jensen, the true crime writer who helped finish Michelle's book. But apparently he has a wife and kids.

r430 thank you for The Genetic Detective. I checked it out and it's a very engrossing show. I love Cece Moore!

I get opiate vibes from him, R432.

I do too r434. Maybe he was her connection.

[quote] I'm sure when the trial concludes

There isn’t going to be a trial. He plead guilty.

Wait, that Billy Jensen guy isn't gay?

Women like this are so annoying. They’re so self-righteous and indignant. They think they’re so special and every thought that they have is brilliant. Dead souls, they are making a Christmas card and nothibg more. The pills just make them more fake with even less empathy.

R435, this could be a game of Clue -- who gave Michelle her bad stash? Was it Paul Haynes after they brought back the motherlode of files? Patton? Billy Jensen, opioid dealer?

He looks like he could pass for Benedict Cumberbath's creepy brother in that pic @ R434

Maybe not now, r419 and that's the problem. These doc series so far are NOT definitive.

But with DeAngelo pleading guilty to all counts and several years to think about his crimes, starving for human contact and possibly narcissistic for fame, there's a good chance he'll sing like late-stage Ted Bundy.

The family and coworkers will thaw out, too, now that the conviction is over. They and the media will have time to think about it, compare notes, etc.

r439 Now THIS would be a true crime docuseries I would watch.

Well I never in all my life, R442! Can you honestly say these two look like they're keeping a secret?

Nonetheless, I'd watch a game show called [italic]Billy Jensen's Bad Load![/italic]

They're even color coordinated in R443's pic! Dynamic criminal duo?

I hope there is a fund set up for poor Alice's nose job. I'm afraid she inherited Oswald's schnoz.

Let's make this happen! Since Patton probably has more money than god, or certainly us, we would have to do it mockumentary style/change around a few plot points and character/characteristics. We can make Patton skinny, for example-- he'd like that.

First off we need a play on the title, then the character names. Any ideas? "I'll be High as Fuck in the Afternoon?"

Eh, I'm not good at this, I'll leave it up to you witty bitches.

"I'll Be Bothering The Shit Out Of Paul Holes Because He's Hot"

The story of how crime enthusiast and Patton Oswald's wife wasted her life

"I'll Be Presenting in the Dark: Exploring the Hole of Paul Holes"

God, some of you unfunny, Aspie trolls need to take your meds.

Maybe we should make this a porno.

The (re)casting alone will take us ages considering some of the, um, source material we have to work with.

FRAU ALERT AT R449!

[quote] I want the interviews with DeAngelo himself

And I want an Oompa-Loompa now; but that doesn't mean I'm getting one.

I'll Be On Fentanyl When It's Dark: The True Story of a Frau Crime Enthusiast

New to the thread but I tried to catch myself up. Ok, I liked the book. I first knew something was off with McNamara's determination to rebrand this guy the Golden State Killer. I'm glad the first episode explains EAR/ONS and how and where those monikers were used.

Should I just break it down? I do not care about McNamara! This whole last episode was about her death. So she's a pill popping dummy who left her child motherless? And everyone's like well, she was coping with trauma or our whole society is overmedicated. Cut the excuses!

This whole show is hagiographic. The book was good but all this stuff about Her Case and it's going to be her win. And it's her obsession. And it's her big book. And she's on the phone with victims all now let's talk about ME. And she's just another self-appointed internet sleuth.*GAG* Like McNamara, they sit around and make up theories without any real investigative experience or resources. At the end of the day it was the DNA and the police dude right who actually built the profile to get the killer. None of these internet losers endless hours of chat group gossip cracked the case!

The general narrative of the determined writer is good. I did like how they explained her interest in crime but this whole show is how she's a writing God. Enough McNamara!

Now let's talk about how many DAYS it took Patton to replace her.

I’ll Be Dead In The Bed: One Frau’s Determination To Be Relevant and Project Her Own Internal Sexual Shame By Finding a Deviant Serial Killer

It was Paul Holes and his DNA genealogy sleuthing that cracked this case. It took him years of hard work.

"I'll Be Gone on My Honeymoon While My Dead Wife's Body is Still Warm"

How do we think Michelle would have taken the arrest of DeAngelo, considering he wasn't on her suspect list at all. What would she have done?

r458 Overdosed.

Is this a show about obnoxious LA showbiz people?

Another pass as perhaps I was unkind lol. She's a good writer. She got the victims to trust her by sharing her own experience but it more than once in the tapes featured in the show she does not sound like a Great Listener. I also shortchanged the older detectives interest in her commitment. They thought she was good but I still not sure how much she helped them. Her best contribution is her research and her ability to translate some of the fear and horror onto the page.

And it's possible Patton remarried so quickly to get his kid a new mom.

But you know you're gaslit when it's VHS 1986 they start talking about how she was one of the popular girls in high school. PLEASE can we get back to the killer.

r460 How is that an example of gaslighting? I am not asking in a bitchy way, but wondering if I've been using the term wrong this whole time. It does seem to have made a re-appearance in the lexicon.

Her primary focus is her own mark on the case. She did light the fire that wrapped it up half a year after the book's release.

R461. It's not. I'm using it incorrectly. Gaslighting: "manipulate (someone) by psychological means into questioning their own sanity." I scraped a mean joke about her being not exactly the cheerleader type.

Those are the popular girls? What did the unpopular girls look like?

A timeline. Michelle McNamara dies April 21, 2016. Patton is engaged to Meredith Salenger July 2017. They marry November 4, 2017. The book comes out February 27, 2018. Joe D'Angelo is charged April 24, 2018.

I'm still single and Patton Oswalt is out here marrying multiple identical looking women.

Adderall, Xanax, and fentanyl sounds like an extremely bad mix. In a two second Google search I established Adderall and Xanax are both addictive and don't mix. Plus extremely dangerous Fentanyl.. Wash it down with a few drinks?

Patton's daughter is going to elide photos of her mom with Natty Gann. He feels some guilt.

He's saying she was brushing off any questions about pill usage. The reality is they probably had an oversized salt shaker of Addys on the dining table.

[quote] Michelle McNamara dies April 21, 2016. Patton is engaged to Meredith Salenger July 2017. They marry November 4, 2017

So he wasn't married a few months after Michelle died as people on this thread have been saying. It was over a year according to this timeline.

[quote] Those are the popular girls? What did the unpopular girls look like?

Is that what passes for popular girls in the midwest?

In one of his most recent stand ups (I think it was the one before first wife died?) He talks about his love for Ambien and helping himself to the Vicodin he joked that his parents get by the truckload because they are older. I'm sure they were both enjoying their pills. She just took it to the next level.

r468 They started a heavy text / phone relationship almost right away. I'll try to find the article. It's painful reading through their accounts about THE GREATEST LOVE EVAH because the glurge factor is so gross. It makes a Hallmark movie look like a Hammer film.

Funny how in a thread about a documentary about a demented MAN who killed about 13 people, raped 50 women, McNamara becomes the villain.

A lot of us are playfully (or not so playfully) making out Patton to be the villain r472 so take your bullshit elsewhere. I hear Rose McGowan is bored. Go Tweet her or something.

r472 it's about focusing the show on the boring drug addled frau and her totally uninteresting personal problems when the focus should be on the GSK and the victims. And the detectives who actually solved the case.

[quote]Funny how in a thread about a documentary about a demented MAN

Where is this documentary about Joseph DeAngelo?! My HBO has been playing a documentary about a writer who died.

I think the "Frau Factor" was off the charts for this series so it makes sense people are being critical of it on DL. All the Karens coming out of the woodwork doesn't help much, either. People are generally sick of entitled women being portrayed as hapless victims when it's clear many of these women are their own worst enemy and responsible for a lot of their own suffering.

If she'd just been a better mug cradler, she'd still be with us.

Did they ever establish whether she was raped by her boss? She said she had too much to drink and ended up having sex with him back in the 90s. But with the #metoo movement, she started questioning whether she'd been raped, since she regretted having sex afterwards. Obviously he didn't pick up on her non-verbal cues. Would she have filed charges had she survived? Would she become a rape victim survivor advocate? So many what ifs!

[quote] Funny how in a thread about a documentary about a demented MAN

Was he even mentioned in the last episode?

[quote] This episode last was more Michelle hagiography: "Oh, everyone kept saying she was the best writer they had ever seen!"

I do agree with this. Michelle's book was not bad, but I didn't think it was treading any groundbreaking territory either.

Maybe I'm looking at this differently, but wasn't part of the reason Michelle's book was popular was because it summarized what had been going on with the investigation in a clear & straightforward narrative?

R480, it's been awhile. I do remember pre-ordering a copy and being excited when it was finallly released.

The timing of the book's release was very lucky -- just two months before DeAngelo was caught.

"A lot of us are playfully (or not so playfully) making out Patton to be the villain [R472] so take your bullshit elsewhere. I hear Rose McGowan is bored. Go Tweet her or something."

Such a witty and cutting comeback, oh my!

I am looking forward to the Fraunale! I want to see how they wrap this whole thing up.

I thought the last episode was the finale. I was surprised to see there is a 6th episode.

Jesus Fucking Christ this series sucks. Who cares about the writer? Nothing remotely interesting about her life or, frankly, her death. At least the male cop is a stud.

It really has become a frau self-suck job.

Patton is a cunt!

Finale today? (I stream, so don't know when this shitshow airs in real time).

Is everyone ready to cradle their mug for it?

I have my mug ready, but I believe it airs on Sunday nights.

Episode six

Disadvantaged women who took part in a work training programme tearfully reminisce about how grateful they were for Michelle's old clothes (selflessly donated by Patton) and the compliments they received wearing them on their first job interviews, all thanks to Patton — 37 minutes.

Patton shares Michelle's thorn-and-rose texts from their third week of dating —15 minutes.

Patton: Hey

Michelle: I have to tell you something.

Patton: Yeah

Michelle: I have a rose, Patton. I'm thinking about our long future together. But what if I die young? Will you bury me in satin?

Patton: Oh

Michelle: My thorn is thinking about you having to live without me. If I die, promise me you'll move on with your life? Please, please, please promise me you'll meet someone who helps you live, love, and laugh again? You have my permission to bring a date to my funeral.

Patton: Cool

Patton shows off Alice's [italic]Rainbow Bridge for Mommies[/italic] crayon drawing — 6 minutes.

Interview with Bonnie, former fiancée of some guy who killed some people once — 2 minutes.

R489, thanks for the reminder. Guess my yummers pumpkin-spice latte will have to wait for another day!

Good god. Loved following this case and loved when this lunatic was caught ( a miracle)

But this series sucked a donkeys balls. Due to Michelle and Patton. Some dark, dark energies there. She truly has no solid connection to this case, at all. Its so fucking forced.

And I am a HUGE Aimee Mann fan (a supremely underrated artist) and even her song pisses me off. All of this Hollywood BULLSHIT for a case that does not need it.

This case needed a standard documentary. Not a bunch of drug addict ego star fuckers. Just a really awkward series.

Sweet Jesus.... and it gets worse.....I am on 2nd to last episode and who is this attention whore queen prancing down a street with these files making it all about him???

Between Michelle. Patton, and this due, I want to vomit. These fuckers are a thirst trap.

This show is OFFENSIVE. What about the victims? What about their family?

Some drug addicted author with some really dark energy- HBO should have fucking cancelled this shit. Its thirsty as fuck.

HOLY SHIT! I am reading the posts above mine and I was ready to vomit- but you all get it!!!!! I am not crazy!!!!! This penultimate episode is FUCKING UNBEARABLE.

I even fucking hate Amy whatshername's narration.

"She truly has no solid connection to this case, at all. Its so fucking forced."

Huh? Of course she had a solid connection to the case. What a pointless statement.

McNamara wrote the book -- or at least mostly wrote it -- so of course the series is going to have elements about her life included. Like another poster upthread mentioned, even David Fincher's masterpiece, Zodiac, incorporated bits of author Robert Graysmith's life into the film -- but it was seamlessly accomplished and added to the overall pace and narrative. I do agree that it's far too much about Michelle though. In order for a narrator to incorporate themselves into a true crime epic like this, they need to be more interesting and compelling than she was.

R495- She is one of many authors and detectives and family members who researched and searched for YEARS before this chick.

However, I feel kind of bad for her and her demons. But she had FUCK ALL to do with solving this case.

And it's a desperate series, and I blame HBO and her creepy fucking husband. Not her. The more I watch her- she seems like she genuinely cares and is haunted by this case (and many things)

But the series simply does not juxtapose the two in any coherent way. Its awkward and desperate as FUCK.

And I am sorry, but Both her and the husband give off BAD FUCKING VIBES. They are off putting. I truly hate this docuseries. It's horrible.

But as I reach the end, I have more sympathy for her. And its HBO and the hubby. And yes, if she were still alive- it would be just as bad.

Up close with fraudom

Didn't someone claim the last episode is the best one. Hopefully that is true.

"The best" in this series is a very, very, very low bar.

What a waste. All that footage and those family interviews--and the director thinks we wanted six hours of The Michellle McNamara Story.

The second and final episodes of this series were excellent because they were primarily about the rapes & murders, the arrest of the GSK (Joseph DeAngelo), and the aftermath for his survivors.

But the other four episodes were an exaltation of the life of Michelle McNamara, who ultimately did not have much to do with the solution of the mystery. I know the book the series was based on was written by her, by her life and death were ultimately pretty boring, and the stuff she wrote read aloud by Amy Ryan came across as very melodramatic (over and above the horrific nature of the crimes).

So I liked this final episode. I was really moved by the survivors getting together to celebrate getting past all this, and particularly by the staying power of Gay & Bob (the only couple who stayed together after the wife was raped by the EAR).

The cute little gay guy who was Michelle's friend in crime solving was really haunting to me--he's spent his whole adult life so far in seaarch of the GSK, and yet he felt no closure after the arrest.

Finally, I got a glimpse of DeAngelo from his relations' side and it confirms he was a scary psycho!

How interesting an episode is directly relates to how much the focus is on Michele. This episode was more watchable because it wasn't just all about her.

[quote]The Original Night Stalker murders in Southern California start in 1979. The murder spree stops in 1981, the same year the first of his three daughters is born.

I think we have the first, major reason why DeAngelo stopped killing.

But he did murder again in 1986 that we know of. He obviously had a compulsion. I still think D.N.A. profiling technology is what put a stop to him after 1986.

It's very naive of the unnamed social worker and Patton Oswalt to say that DeAngelo "wasn't born this way" and could have chosen differently.

Technically, maybe he could have made different choices, but hereditary sociopathy is a REAL thing and not overcomeable by the individual in freedom. Tons of people get away with crimes like this or commit non-violent ones because it feels good and YES, they are born without a conscience.

The documentary notes that DeAngelo and his siblings nearly starved to death and suffered routine, corporal punishment (torture) from their father, which is what taught DeAngelo to do it or turned him into a violent predator.

But that's because DeAngelo's father WAS A HEREDITARY PSYCHO, too!

So, both things are happening but DeAngelo would never "choose the right" out of decency like a person with empathy can. Only fear of consequences ever deterred him and people like this need to be locked up with custodial care.

r506, unless you give us some corroborating proof, we can only conclude you're pulling all of this out of your ass.

[quote] Finally, I got a glimpse of DeAngelo from his relations' side and it confirms he was a scary psycho!

Not really. The younger blonde cousin of his whom he raised in the early 80s was shocked to find out all this about him--she says he was wonderful to her when he took care of her for a couple of years after her parents were gone.

In fact, we got practically no actual few first-hand details from the family members that confirmed he was a monster. The nephew was really shaken that deAngelo watched as his mother (his sister) was raped by 2 servicemen in Germany at age seven and then went on to become a rapist; but the newphgew had to have heard about the rape second-hand.

The family members were in shock at his monstrosity, but it had to do with what they found out after his arrest.

Oh, you need proof that a serial violent criminal, who gained only pleasure from his crimes, is a pure sociopath?

Then how about the lead prosecutor against DeAngelo, Sacramento County District Attorney Anne Marie Schubert, who spoke to psychology experts and labelled DeAngelo a "pure sociopath," then won his convictions?

You can Google DeAngelo's mental diagnoses yourself, lazy, ignorant r507.

Wrong, r508, the family members besides the cousin were not shocked or in dispute of DeAngelo's capabilities. They took it as confirmation of their own dark stories of DeAngelo's behavior.

The nephew recounted a stalker in ski mask spying on he and his brother through the window and threatening them through clenched teeth. He recounted the stories that DeAngelo was abused as a kid and watched his sister get raped as a 7-year-old girl, then called it "sickening" that DeAngelo would grow up to do the same things.

He didn't deny the allegations or possibility, he confirmed them.

The ex-fiancee said that "the rules were never for" DeAngelo, that DeAngelo rape-tortured her with sex, then stalked and threatened violence on her after she broke up with him because she wouldn't help him cheat in college.

So I think you're either DeAngelo's mother, just being a contrarian or fishing for people's knowledge of the show, r508.

Also, notice DeAngelo's current wife wouldn't speak to the documentary. But we learned she separated from him and took their daughters away in the early '90s, when they were only 10 years old or less.

R510 what else that guy could say??? I dont justify DeAngelo , but seeing as kid that your sister is being raped is sick itself, It could affect him

too much Michelle and not enough of the victims and the actual killer... Can anyone recommend a good documentary about the case?

Two have already been mentioned.

Well, mention them again, Sarah Huckabee-Sanders.

Unmasking A Killer and The Golden State Killer: It's Not Over.

r516

thanks

Unmasking A Killer and The Golden State Killer: It's Not Over do not have as much new information or victim and DeAngelo relation testimony as this one.

There are plenty of victim interviews in both of those docs, r518. And lots more info from the detectives, and the timeline of Deangelo's crimes. They're both much more comprehensive than this HBO fraufest.

I'LL BE GONE IN THE DARK is worth watching for the stories about the case.

But I really see Michelle McNamara and Patton Oswalt as interlopers now — parasites and drama queens who don't merit half the series.

Online blogs were already renewing awareness and leads. McNamara made no meaningful contributions to solving the case. McNamara had only written 150 pages of her best-selling book before keeling over. She and Oswalt were druggies who got McNamara killed while horning into a spotlight that isn't theirs.

I did like the Creature from the Black Lagoon metaphor and I wonder if DeAngelo ever did swim or take cover under the waterways that connected the victims' houses.

Considering that DeAngelo pled guilty, I think there's a good chance that he'll spill the beans about other crimes, techniques and what he was thinking.

I know that more thorough documentaries will be made about this that will be McNamara-free.

I liked the last one. It was interesting to hear from D'Angelo's family. Sounds like they're not up to speed on how deep the damage in that family goes. It's so weird how he compartmentalized all this. D'Angelo looked like a year or so in prison knocked half the life out of him.

Patton didn't know a ton about the book and the case it seems like. The episode redeemed the series in my eyes but the guys thought they would find D'Angelo's name in her files. I don't think she was that close to "solving" it. She did call a possible Vietnam vet as likely.

The best thing she did was bring a lot attention to the case but the idea of the one-woman gumshoe wasn't really it.

Thank you R516! Don't eat at the Red Hen.

What's the red hen?

DeAngelo was play-acting extra weak in court, just like Harvey Weinstein and Bill Cosby.

The cops noted that DeAngelo was acting fine before he was arrested and he played weak or mentally ill way back in the '70s every time he was busted for shoplifting, work infractions, etc.

What we see is an absolutely pathetic loser who is nothing without his anonymity — kind of like DLers.

How strange that DeAngelo would be fired just for shoplifting dog repellent and a hammer -- as if cops don't get away with worse. There must have been more at play there.

The last episode was the best. At least it tied things together. I do feel that the final musical montage was unnecessarily long though.

He wasn't popular with his fellow cops. I agree, they were probably looking for an excuse to get rid of him.

The last episode was terrific. I agree with R502's assessment.

I learned about the case because of McNamara's article in LA Magazine, which went pretty viral when it was published. I just couldn't believe that someone so brazen and prolific had never been caught. I read a couple of the books, including Larry Crompton's, and many of the online threads about the case.

I never, ever thought he would be caught. So to see not only that he was, but that all these victims were able to get closure by gathering to support each other, and that we could hear from them (Gay and Bob were my favorites; I gasped when I heard they were the only couple who stayed together, although I wasn't really surprised) along with DeAngelo's relatives — it made for a pretty amazing hour of television.

[quote] How strange that DeAngelo would be fired just for shoplifting dog repellent and a hammer -- as if cops don't get away with worse. There must have been more at play there.

He wasn't fired. He resigned immediately when informed that he would be put on leave while an investigation was conducted, which was standard procedure when a cop got in trouble.

Note that he often used dog repellent and hammers committing his crimes.

^ Resigning stopped the investigation, if I didn't make that clear.

Dog repellent smells bad to humans. Many of his victims reported that he stank or smelled weird.

I agree the last episode was great because of very little Michelle. Although I chuckled at how they kept trying to work her into the episode by finding quotes from her book to fit what was happening. I'm glad they limited it to just that.

Patton is still a cunt and I'll never believe different!

I didn't totally understand what the GSK's nephew meant when he said he woke up one night to find a man in a ski mask ordering him to go back to sleep. The GSK was in his bedroom? Why would he still be wearing a ski mask in his sister's house?

Someone was on the roof of their house, spying on the nephew and his brother through the window as they were sleeping in the middle of the night.

The creep wore a ski mask and gave orders through clenched teeth like the Golden State Killer. So now the nephew thinks it was his uncle Joe DeAngelo, in light of his stalker crimes. The nephew thinks DeAngelo may have been using their house — without his parents' knowledge — as a safe house to hide out in while he committed the crimes.

It's creepy shit and DeAngelo was doing it behind the family's back.

R535, freaky. Maybe he was 'practising?'

I also thought it was weird that the nephew thought he used his house as a safe house... for what purpose? Why would he need a safe house? He committed the crimes in the victims' houses

Maybe a place to run to for hiding if someone started chasing him, I assume, as there was a case early on where he was almost caught. Note that all the cases in that second period were pretty much in that area; I believe one of the officers said you could easily walk from one crime scene to another, they were that close.

I'm surprised DeAngelo was so agile as to be outrunning other cups, jumping over fences, quickly riding bicycles away from crime scenes -- he never looked particularly trim or athletic.

I think he also lucked out with Gregory Sanchez, who looked like a big, strong, young guy who could have handled him/done some serious damage to him.

I was picturing it as D'Angelo outside the house but maybe I misheard. I think he practiced a lot. Also, Sacramento has alleys.

Will there be a Season 2? Paul Haynes can fill the websleuth role as he goes undercover to West Hollywood and tries to crack various gay bar melodramas and mysteries..

watching the ID series, It's not over and they bring up that EAR put plates the victims' backs when he went into other parts of the house... Did they mention that in the HBO series? if so... I missed it

Yes they did mention it. Briefly. In between Mcnamara frau-ing and Patton being creepy.

Yes, I believe the HBO documentary mentioned it.

". . .he would tie the husband up and lay him face down, stacks of plates on his back so that if the husband moved, the movement would be heard."

BLOOP!

On-screen graphic of text bubbles: "I'm hungry " BLOOP! "What can I get you?" BLOOP! "Are there any Twinkies in the house?" BLOOP! "I'll check." BLOOP! "No Twinkies. But a feel Ho-hos." BLOOP! "Do you want to have another baby?" BLOOP!

Just finished. I kinda feel like a cunt saying this, but I don't think Michelle McNamara was as compelling a figure as Patton and her friends thought she was. To me, the most interesting episode was the last one because of the first-hand recollections from some of the GSK's family members.

Good thing I was born too late, because if The Golden State Killer™ (It stuck! Yay!! Go me!!!) ever stacked my beloved Rae Dunn plates on Patton's back... Girrrrl, I would have gone OFF! You do NOT mess with a lady's collectibles!

Okay, I am so relieved to read that I'm aligned with the overwhelming consensus on DL. Friends and family have been raving about the series and I was left wondering how anyone could find Michelle McNamara's life that interesting.

Sorry to be lazy and not read through all 547 posts, and it's probably been mentioned, but if not, the podcast Man In The Window is excellent. It was my introduction to GSK and, man, it's the first podcast that actually scared the shit out of me.

I kinda feel like a cunt for saying this, but looking at the crime scene photos I couldn't help noticing the nightmare 70s interiors. Christ, all of those houses were hideous.

I still call him ear/ons and don't have much use for the frau's golden state killer thing. Never had much use for the frau anyway.

But I'm just an old true crime f@g. Will that word get me banned?

What’s all the Frau ranting on this thread beyond the typical DL’s overuse of a tired trope that wasn’t very witty to begin with? McNamara wasn’t a frau like her or not.

Couple of things: not sure why some posters whine about McNamara being featured in the series, it was based on HER book, ffs, and her premature death made for a compelling human interest story, combined with her having a celebrity husband. The series follows a “Roger and Me” type of doc with the investigator (in her case, dead) being prominently featured.

The series gave ample time to the victims and enough time for a psychopath like DeAngelo. DeAngelo, like most white male serial killers people love to obsess over, was not very interesting unless you think rapists and murderers are “interesting”.

r551 it was all about the victims and the detectives, and how the detectives worked this case which was fascinating and which is what the series should've been based around. We didn't need half an episode of McNamara's fucked up relationship with her cunt mother. Who gives a shit?

The worst part was, R551- is that her book had FUCK ALL to do with anything... The case is a tale on its own. Her book was just another book about the case, and not even a great one. It was a lousy idea to combine the two. The execution was a mixed bag.

Patton grew more oily and unlikeable with each episode, she had a very dark vibe herself- it was just a really awkward series- book or not, the Michelle/Patton angle seemed completely out of place with the entire documentary.

To echo above, the best part of the entire series was hearing from victims in the 2nd? episode and then the final episode. The part with DeAngelo's relatives was very sad. And the part about the (SPOILER) rape of his sister and also him clearly hiding at his relatives house and waking his nephew up at night had my hairs standing on end.

By the final episode I fast forwarded EVERYTHING with Michelle and Patton, I was done with both of them. (May she RIP)

And the doc could have easily been 2 episodes instead of 5.

McNamara was an interloper, a parasite and a druggie who killed herself, r551.

DeAngelo never spoke to the documentary and only one episode was interviews with people who knew him.

If you don't find serial killers "interesting," you'll end up marrying one. Congratulations!

McNamara had only written 150 pages of her own book before she keeled over!

This series really helped me understand the frau, and why so many are unhappy. While most morph into Karens and dump their domestic rage on defenseless service workers, others self medicate. She's like the frau version of Betty Draper. I too found all the Michelle parts tedious and excessive. I also thought her questioning whether she was raped because she slept with her boss after too many drinks ridiculous. It felt like this series was Patton's infomercial for the book.

I agree r551. I think it was just another way for Patton to try to sell books.

^ R557 He needs to pay for Alice's eventual therapy somehow. "Mommy neglected me to become an internet detective!," she'll say.

^ R557 He needs to pay for Alice's eventual therapy somehow. "Mommy neglected me to become an internet detective!," she'll say.

That part about Michelle having only written 150 pages of that 400-page book left he stunned. Did they mention who ghostwrote the other 250 pages?

I mean, that makes her even LESS of a participant. Not only was she WRONG, the case had verb reopened BEFORE her magazine article that's incorrectly portrayed as the instigation of the case's reopening, she never even correctly identified Angelo on her lists of hundreds of possibilities. . .AND she didn't even write half the book?!? Is that correct?

Yes, Haynes and that other assistant said they finished McNamara's book.

In all fairness, the documentary said that online blogs had picked up tens of thousands of users trying to solve the case before McNamara, and that's how McNamara came to learn about EAR/ONS.

So people had blockbuster blogs, including hers, before the book.

I was going to watch the HBO doco, but decided to read MacNamara's book before I did. What surprised me was how many people dismissed unexplained footprints on their property, refuse, noises and especially unusual sightings of someone sneaking around outside homes. The mother of all "if onlys"; if only more people had reported to the police what they saw/heard, perhaps DeAngelo may have been caught sooner.

Another surprise is how much of MacNamara's book was not written by her, but rather compiled from previously-published articles and unpublished notes/information.

Well, r563, she was dead, you know. Not all that surprising.

[quote]Another surprise is how much of MacNamara's book was not written by her, but rather compiled from previously-published articles and unpublished notes/information.

She only finished 150 pages before she died, even calling it "her book" is a reach.

Well, I hate all the publicity this got. I mean. Here we are. The very people who solved the Butch Sous Chef murder of the closeted Gay man, and we have never been honored with a mini series or a documentary. I remember we were competing with another site but we had all the clues right here. We even had witnesses and people who knew people. We were the Shit. And we never got approached by HBO. Fuck a PAtton Oswalt. The real story there was some obsessive got hooked on prescription drugs and OD'd. We were dismissed. As Alex Forrest said to Michael Douglas:I won't be IGNORED!" as she boiled their pet rabbit.

So who's seen Paul Haynes at the local WeHo watering holes?

I've watched three episodes. Patton Oswalt is fine. Michelle McNamara is fine. Using their angle to tell the story is fine. The snippy McNamara and Oswalt haters in the thread are mostly grinding personal axes.

I told you fat whores that we should have run off those fucking Websleuth cunts the day Davida the Freaka brought them here.

r568 sorry the commentary on this thread was spot on.

Wait, so Oswalt didn't finish the book?

Why in hell was HE signing the books?

what a tool

Allegedly, her research assistant and a ghostwriter finished the book under Oswalt's supervision.

LOL - under his supervision?

What an embarrassing little person he is.

I wonder what 'supervision' entailed. Probably playing video games while they updated him once a month.

Did they investigate the coffee he left her. "Here drink this and have a great nap" lol

At this point, my respect for him wouldn't be less if he killed her, I would be surprised he was smart enough.

Why does she get to be the famous one? Because she had a famous husband?I mean. She was one o many and not even the most effective.

[quote]"I contacted her researcher," Oswalt told The Daily Beast, "and started talking, what do we do about the book? How do we structure the narrative? It became a bunch of meetings and get-togethers. The thing just happened."

[quote]Oswalt sat down with McNamara's researcher Paul Haynes and crime journalist Billy Jensen, and the three finished the book as a team. Jensen explained in his own book (Chase Darkness with Me: How One True-Crime Writer Started Solving Murders) that while McNamara had completed numerous chapters for the book, they weren't in any particular order. Jensen, Haynes, and Oswalt sequenced her material and filled in the gaps that weren't already addressed in her book.

From this we can gather:

Haynes was sent into a swamp of fragments and drugged-out musings.

Jensen did a reverse Brion Gysin and fashioned what Haynes retrieved into something comprehensible.

And Oswalt had his assistant call in every three days to ask what was taking so long, and called it a team effort.

R574 has it about right.

Something a little bit weird happened for me watching this: the "Oswalt/McNamara House" shot that they kept cutting back to over the course of the 6 episodes was not at all their house, it's my neighbor's house a few doors down that they rented out as a location for multiple exteriors and for interiors.

The filmmakers also used the surrounding neighborhood as static shots, sort of "life went on around them" filler when things go to shit for McNamara in Ep. 5, I think. We are a few miles away from where Oswalt and McNamara lived (I think he still lives there.)

The "office" they showed as Michelle's wasn't hers, but a room in the same house. There's a shot of Oswalt leaving through the front door of "his" house into the front walkway of the rented house. Not sure of the location of the interview shoot they did with Oswalt. There are a couple seconds of the "office" getting packed up and put away that are shown in Ep. 6 without explanation.

They took the numbers off the house for the shoot, so it took me a couple rewinds to figure out what was up.

A very weird little detail that I took as a good reminder to be really cynical about docs that slide between cinema verite, archival footage and recreations without disclaimers, and all the best ones do it.

Very very little of what's presented as present-day reality in a mini-series like this has very much to do with objective reality. Liz Garbus is a good filmmaker but the line between "documentarian" and "storyteller" is very blurry here and it's intentional. I would mind it less if it had been more in service of justice... the case definitely seems to have gotten a lot of prodding from McNamara's article in Los Angeles magazine, but wasn't solved by the book's publishing or the making of the series.

Looks like from recent news reports that the GSK himself is doing something similar and is pretending to be much worse off than he is... doing his low-affect vegetable act in the wheelchair for the benefit of the cameras.

[post redacted because linking to dailymail.co.uk clearly indicates that the poster is either a troll or an idiot (probably both, honestly.) Our advice is that you just ignore this poster but whatever you do, don't click on any link to this putrid rag.]

Patton must have been very upset he and Michelle didn't get a mention during DeAngelo's acceptance speech today. How rude! In other news...

To counter the act DeAngelo put on in court the DA released some video from the camera in his cell.

3:00 - Swinging his arms around, albeit in a very old-man way.

6:30 - Balancing on one foot as he cleans the floor of his cell with the other on a paper towel.

4:00 - Saving the best for last, he hops up onto the wall desk and balances there, no hint of shakiness or uncertainty, and moves back and forth with his feet right at the very edge as he covers the light with more paper towels.

They didn't show him jerking off in his cell watching a guard? That was what the court hearing on Monday was about, whether that could be included.

wow... this is hard to listen to

I watched this documentary yesterday, after hearing a lot of good things about it from friends of mine. I was ok for the first two episodes but then it really started to lose me. I was glad to read this thread, because I was feeling exactly the same about McNamara (and Oswalt) as many here did. I didn't know who they were before hand either, but they definitely came across kinda annoying and not at all interesting. I understand that this documentary is based off the book, so of course it would focus on her life too, but it just wasn't as interesting as a documentary based solely on the crimes would've been.

The elephant in the room for me is that McNamara just WASN'T a good writer. Yet they keep saying she was over and over again. However we get the voiceover lady reading excerpt after excerpt from her writing, and I mean, talk about purple prose! And that Letter to an Old Man at the end was cringe-inducing. It's the kind of thing a teenager in their first creative writing class might think is amazing.

Also, I know we're meant to believe that she didn't seek the limelight, but based off the recordings of her interviews with people, she came across as not a very good listener (which is funny as that's what nearly turned her off her husband, that he never listened), and injected herself into other people's stories in what I thought was a really insensitive way.

One victim is tell her about her relationship with her mother, and she butts in: "Oh yes, well me and my mother had this bad relationship blah blah blah" and it ends with the victim sort of chuckling: "Riiiight. Well my relationship with my mother wasn't like that." Or even worse, when Melanie says: "When I was raped... I was molested by a neighbour", and McNamara immediately jumps in with: "Oh yes, well I mean, there was this guy, my boss, in Northern Ireland, it was like that." You have to hear it to get what I mean, but it doesn't come across like sympathy and understanding, it's like she just wants to use someone else's story to immediately jump in and talk about her.

Speaking of the victims, they were just amazing. I wanted to hug each and every one of them. It must've taken a lot to open up about it so publicly, and also so healing at the same time. I am thinking particularly of the woman who was girl on the piano. Told all her life to not discuss it, punished by her parents for telling a friend etc, for her to sit there, with her police statement, and be able to read it aloud for the first time, well as I say, I just wanted to hug her.

Knowing a bit already about this case, I also couldn't understand why they left so much out of it. The town hall meeting incident, for want of a better term, is one of the greatest examples of this sicko's terror campaign, and they didn't even mention it. All this to say, this documentary just wasn't for me. I understand it was based on her book, so I'm not complaining it wasn't something else, but I do think it's a pity they couldn't have gotten all those interviews with victims and detectives etc and made a better series out of it.

r581 the two documentaries already mentioned in this thread are worth watching. They focus solely on the case, with interviews with the victims and the detectives.

Thanks R582!

R581, I noticed Michelle inserted herself into the victims' stories, in a sense, too. It came across as self involved, but part of me also saw it as a way to try to relate to the victims so they would feel comfortable and tell her more. Either way, it wasn't a good look, and rubbed me the wrong way too. If I was describing my brutal rape, by a later serial killer, no less, and the author interjected with her story about a maybe date rape by her boss, I would find it less than professional and tone deaf.

[quote]It's the kind of thing a teenager in their first creative writing class might think is amazing.

I felt the same way about it. And now Vulture has shat out another Michelle McNamara blowjob — them seem to be contractually obligated to produce one every three weeks — floating the idea that her oh-so-powerful writing 'manifested' his arrest.

[quote]Michelle McNamara wrote in her book that someday GSK would hear the footsteps of police approaching his front door and be forced, finally, to “show us your face” and “walk into the light.” By writing that series of events in her book, which inspired this docuseries, it’s as if she manifested it into reality.

She had fuck-all to do with his arrest. It was genetic DNA technology.

Off topic, but what in the world is up with all the talk of "manifesting" on sites like Lipstickalley, Twitter, etc.? Are they serious? When did this start?

On topic, Michelle is now a frau hero, and patron saint of frau websleuthes forever.

One things that cracked me up and made me see how really she was no different than any other web sleuth was when she developed her own suspect at one stage and was stalking his Facebook. That seemed very "on brand", haha. And then she is sending his details to the police, saying her suspect was, among other things, a "rabid atheist". I forget sometimes that still in the US, atheism is often linked to degeneracy.

The US still has a long way to go before it catches up to Western Europe about religion being ancient fairy tales.

[quote]Off topic, but what in the world is up with all the talk of "manifesting" on sites like Lipstickalley, Twitter, etc.? Are they serious? When did this start?

It's always been around but its popularity ebbs and flows. It became really popular when [italic]The Power Of Positive Thinking[/italic] was published in 1952 and then again with [italic]The Secret[/italic] in 2006. This time around it's being pushed by Gabby Bernstein and others of her ilk who are popular with Millennial women.

It all sounds harmless enough until you realise the opposite side of the coin is blaming people for illnesses or anything else bad that befalls them. 'You have pancreatic cancer? Well, no surprises there! If you had only had a more positive outlook when you had the chance you wouldn't be dying now'.

“The town hall meeting incident, for want of a better term, is one of the greatest examples of this sicko's terror campaign, and they didn't even mention it. All this to say, this documentary just wasn't for me.”

What town hall incident? If you are referring to the photo someone tweeted, I don’t think that was him.

The townhall incident is a great example of police incompetence. This guy was no mastermind.

R588 The suspect should’ve filed charges for harassment.

R591, nah, not the photo, just the story. I've grabbed a description from online this is what I was referring to:

"During the time of the EAR attacks in Sacramento, there were several town meetings held, to warn residents about EAR and discuss what can be done to stop him. At one of them, a man got up and said the police must not be telling the truth about the MO of these attacks, because no man would stand by and let his wife be raped, he certainly would not. Later, this man's home was attacked by the EAR, and his wife was raped, while the husband was bound. Police felt that EAR had attended this town hall meeting."

[quote] Something a little bit weird happened for me watching this: the "Oswalt/McNamara House" shot that they kept cutting back to over the course of the 6 episodes was not at all their house, it's my neighbor's house a few doors down that they rented out as a location for multiple exteriors and for interiors

Patton moved out of the house he lived in with Michelle in 2017. HBO bought the rights to her book in 2018

The (surprisingly unstaged) house tour is at R351.

I just saw the 48 Hours which was supposed to be about the victims telling their stories and confronting GSK in court a few days ago, and half the damn show was about this frau. JFC.

I haven't seen the documentary, but just finished reading the book earlier this afternoon. I overall liked the book. Lots of interesting information. My book is a paperback with some afterwords added since publication of hardback and arrest of D'Angelo. Unfortunately the new material is focused on McNamara and all she did to keep the case(s) in the public eye. There is no discussion in the new material about D'Angelo or how he was captured. I've now read up on him, and how they detected it, and alas, I now view these new afterword chapters as defensive attempts to protect McNamara's legacy. Hopefully now that D'Angelo has been convicted and sentenced maybe another edition will be issued giving readers the full story.

I've always found the "everyone had forgotten this case and Michelle kept it in the public eye" argument to be really flimsy and yeah, an attempt to make her out to be more important to this than she was. I don't deny that when SHE found out about the case she was surprised SHE had never heard of it, but I mean, I'm younger than her, from another country and I and my friends all knew of this case. The creepy phone call ("bitch... bitch...") is quite legendary. I don't think the case was quite as obscure as they tried to make out.

Yes, r594.

That is the all-time, scariest EAR/ONS incident that still freaks me out. If you saw that in a horror movie, you wouldn't believe it.

But it really happened.