Loved but Discontinued China Patterns

Some of us continue to collect china.

This is a pattern I am filling out a set for.

It is the most MARY! pattern I own.

I hope to use it on Thanksgiving...{{{sigh}}}

OP=Hyacinth Bucket

We take a lot of things for granted without understanding the ways in which they are made. This is an old Pathe documentary on the making of some Wedgwood porcelain, there is a Part 2 to this documentary which is on Youtube also.

I accidentally posted part 2, here's part 1

[QUOTE] I am so heartbroken

M

A

R

Y

!

R2, that is lovely!

Red Aves by Royal crown Derby is another favorite of mine.

I never had a life that required [italic]china[/italic] china. I had a set of white Apilco from Williams-Sonoma at one point, a navy-with-platinum rim set (the knife fell off the rim constantly), and Turquoise Fiestaware, which I still have some of.

But my favorite dinnerware, discontinued since the late '80s, when the company went out of business, was Metlox Colorstax. I still have some in different blues and greens. They were available in department stores (Woodward & Lothrop, Bloomingdale's) when I was first buying dishes in 1982, and they're still the ones I love the best.

R7, very nice! One of those timeless patterns and lovely colors.

To be honest, my entertaining has always been on the casual side. In the early 80’s, though, I worked at a family jewelry store with a considerable bridal registry. It was always interesting to see the patterns chosen including crystal and silverware.

The most beautiful formal table I have personally seen was set with Red Aves, Francis 1st and Lismore. In theory, I would have thought the Francis 1st would have been too busy paired with the Red Aves, but, on that mahogany table, it just worked.

r8, whomever set that table was a TTQ who knew their beans.

Francis First is the American sterling pattern with the most pieces made for it.

Waterford Lismore is the crystal (33%Pb!) with the most pieces made for it.

With Red Aves it must have been magnificent.

I think DL has finally hit peak gay with this thread. Congratulations!

Adams Singapore Bird - This was our every day china. I love the colors and the shape.

You have turned into your mother, OP.

Carlyle by Royal Doulton is a classic r12. OP's mother would be proud.

If I had it to do all over again, I would buy Bianco White (Vecchio Ginori), by Richard Ginori.

But I am now old and my dish-buying days are behind me. I remember thinking—no, [italic]knowing[/italic]—how much better the world around me would be if I just picked out the right china. I did get a lot of joy out of making and sharing the meals I made, and shared, and the dishes on which I served said meals, but now it is just me. In this new, Corona era, it's [italic]really[/italic] just me.

What does TTQ mean?

r15, I'm not r9, but I imagine he meant TableTop Queen.

You are correct r16.

And it extends to napery as well. 24 inch square, Point de Venise monogrammed napkins frequently appear on my dinner table.

r9, a true TTQ.

What a coincidence.

Just yesterday my UMC Boomer Frau mother was wondering whether to sell her tableware (early ‘80s Wedgewood I believe, in cream with a thin gilt trim) for the extra space. I asked her who on Earth would be fussed about buying and storing “good china” in this day & age, particularly given the current climate. She laughed at me incredulously, and said, “what do you mean, darling? Those who’ll want it don’t have such a thing as ‘good china’”. Bear in mind that this tableware is never used casually inside our family home, presumably because me & my father are unworthy peons who would not appreciate it.

I also told her it was foolish to ask more than a grand for the set, and again she looked down her nose at me and replied that the “five thousand pounds” she wants in exchange is “nothing for those who’d want it.” I just gave up.

I love my mother and we don’t often run into the class chasm in my household now, but when it does come up that she’s New Money and went to private/finishing school abroad with Sheihk’s children and knows about things like place-settings, it’s always a painful smack in the face for me.

Wuhan Blue is no longer popular, for some reason.

r18, you can tell you are not a TTQ.

After all that and you failed to specify her pattern?

Flip a piece over, read the backstamp, then report back,

Or ask her.

I have Tiffany’s Classic Blue. Could hardly be more plain and simple but that’s what I love about it.

Now I’m collecting random cobalt and red transferware and can’t decide what to do with my set of Classic Blue. I can sell it to Replacements because I have a few obscure pieces, although the dinner plates are less than pristine. I can also see if a family member wants it (she also has a set of Classic Blue).

I have a complete set of Franciscan Desert Rose with service for 12 and most of the serving pieces.

Some of the pieces date back to the 1950's. as they originally belonged to my great-grandmother who strted the collection .

[quote] Loved but Discontinued China Patterns

Wuhan?

Franciscan Desert Rose is lovely crockery.

[quote]Wuhan Blue is no longer popular, for some reason.

[quote]Wuhan?

SFIFTL

[bold]S[/bold]o

[bold]F[/bold]unny

[bold]I[/bold]

[bold]F[/bold]orgot

[bold]t[/bold]o

[bold]L[/bold]augh.

I went to a thrift shop benefitting a local institution before all this quarantining and there must have been dozens of complete china sets available, most for $100-200. Strikes me as a little sad. At one point, I was entertaining a lot and would have loved to have had nice china (I made do with plain white Crate and Barrel plates, which I still have). But smaller place with no space for doing a big dinner equals very casual get-togethers.

For R22. Another classic!

Op, Carlyle is my favorite too!! Beautiful pattern

China as a commodity is pretty much dead. The younger generations don't give lavish dinner parties and no one wants to clean anything by hand.

There is definitely china now that is dish washer safe but they aren't as delicate and have the beautiful patterns of the classic stuff

I'll take "What is the Gayest Thread on DL for $500, Alex..."

I'm with R21 - the simpler, the better. I have no use for a set but I think my mom's Olympia Platinum is ideal.

I’m the one who collects vintage/antique transferware. I’ve gotten so much of it, I just throw it in the dishwasher anyway. I can always find more, and I mix and match it, so I don’t care about running out of it.

While I do want to take care of the nice things I have, it’s tedious to worry that something is going to break and I won’t be able to replace it and the whole scarcity spiral.

Now I don’t have to choose just one pattern. I can enjoy many and there’s always another at a thrift shop to add.

It’s difficult to find the bowls, though.

Thrift shops won't even take this stuff anymore.

Chinese Imari ware of the Qing dynasty, mid 18th C.

That is really pretty, R11 (Singapore Bird). I love turquoise (the color) and red in combination. The 5-piece place setting (dinner plate, salad plate, B/B plate, cup, and saucer) at $79.95 seems really reasonable. Alas, I eat most of my meals from a white pasta bowl from Target.

Anyone else share a fondness for demitasse cups? The store where I worked received four of these beauties. Exquisite.

Yes, r36. I remember visiting my great aunt Lily with my mother in the afternoon. Since it was relatively late in the day, she served us coffee in demitasse cups. She had the little spoons to go with them. I don't know the China pattern, but it was white with small blue flowers. I would've been around 11 and thought this was so elegant.

My parents had a gorgeous pattern--sadly I don't know the same--thin, deep blue border with gold

Lots of old ladies on DL, I see

Isn't it just degrees of common to have modern commercial lines of china, or discontinued lines (implying they were discontinued in the relatively recent past?

A lot of fuss and preciousness about something that has no value once purchased (except to Replacements Ltd. who feed off the fussy queens and Hyacinth Buckets who will lay out $359 for two bread plated to fill out that service for 12 of Mother's.

If you want to show off, you can have it custom designed and avoid the risk of seeing that a frenemy's mother loved the same pattern that yours did. Or buy real antique stuff, not grannyware from the 20thC.

"fussy queens and Hyacinth Buckets who will lay out $359 for two bread plated to fill out that service for 12 of Mother's."

R40 - That is the whole point...because is was mother's and before her it was grandmother's and if it is like my china service it originated with great-grandmother and will go to my niece when I no longer have need for a china service or pass on to the big china cabinet in the sky. I plan on taking the sterling silver Chantilly tableware with me when I go!

I have a basement of FULL sets you can't find anywhere. The lady that owned my house had dressers just full of expensive china sets 🤗 I definitely recognize some posted here.

Francis I is too busy for almost anything. I don't understand it. I like really fussy floral patterns but Francis I mixes fruit and swirls and flowers and it just looks like a cheap mess to me. Sorry, that's mean of me to say.

Transferware person: Do you have different color sets? I want to make a green set. Do you mix old and new and cheap and expensive? That's what I want to do.

R32, what colors of transferware do you collect? Like R43, I'm starting to buy it and really loving it. I love the way the washed out colors are so unique to transferware. I buy mostly blue/white but also love the brown/white - but it doesn't really go with my house.

Also, do you buy most of it online or in person?

^ Sometimes they have brown & white transferware at TJ Maxx and Marshalls. I bought a dinner plate but then decided I really wanted the green.

My all time favorite pattern, Ralph Lauren’s Carolyn.

My favorite everyday china is Heritage Green by Taylor Smith from the 1960s. They were our everyday dishes as a child in the 1990s and we still use them.

Here’s our ‘everyday’ china... Ralph Lauren’s Côte d’Azur series. Three different patterns you can mix and match (Stripes, Batik and Floral.). We love it.

Btw, this is the pattern used at Ralph’s Paris restaurant.

Valencia by Arabia of Finland.

We do a lot of sit-down dinners for family and friends. This is the ‘dress’ china we use... Ralph Lauren Spectator Cadet Blue. It’s elegant but simple. Not floral or fussy. Bought it piece by piece on eBay, which was great fun.

Okay, what flatware and glasses do you (posters) use? I'm curious about the whole table setting.

Glasses - I have the ones (tea, water and wine) that match my Desert Rose China

Flatware - I have two inexpensive sets one very modern and very frou-frou.

Silverware - Chantilly

Royal Crown Derby Kedleston is my pattern. The table always looks fabulous when i'm using these. It's modern and elegant at the same time. The bit of gold really warms the table. I love it.

Kedleston is just for dinner, of course. For Breakfast or lunch, it's Sheffield Rhapsody.

In both cases, I found a box of multiple pieces at thrift stores, each box under $20. Then it's off to eBay to hunt down the balance. You can assemble just what you want that way. Sometimes not for a lot of money.

Not a lot of money was the case for the Sheffield. The Royal Crow Derby is not cheap. Still, with a lot of patience, I have been able to complete the Kedleston at the best price possible. Do do your homework carefully.

Total fucking "MARY!" I know. I like it that way.

R47 those are very nice, calming. I don't think I'd want to see them everyday but they are perfect for a few days a week or certain seasons - winter - spring.

R54 that is charming and upbeat. Is that for lunch or dinner?

I like French glassware. This is arcopal fireworks - cheery 70s feel. I don't like the bowls or the mugs.

I only like glass serving pieces if they are not scratched. But certain patterns - there is a very good supply in thrift shops and you can find pristine pieces.

I have a lot of fish - black, white, and transparent.

R56, the Sheffield Rhapsody is white with the small blue flowers. It always looks terrific in the day time, either breakfast or lunch.

There are piles of it on eBay.

R51, I use vintage (eBay) Oneida (cube) Michelangelo flatware. It's a knock-off of Gorham Strasbourg (I think).

Very fussy-looking, but I like it. (I use plain white plates and bowls.) I don't like the smaller fork with the cut-outs / pierced pattern. I use the larger (still small-ish) dinner fork for everything. When I bought my set, it came with the long, iced tea spoons, which are surprisingly useful.

not on Ebay Europe :( We have our own favorites.

Enjoy your collecting, dudes. Make sure you aren't stingy giving it away to people who might like it, before you get too old. I downsized 75% - gave it to the few young people who are even open to old dishes. Many are horrified. Also you can go to a flea market and sell it to people you can see will love it and live with it another few decades.

Thrift shops in my country break things that don't sell and send it to the dumps.

I want to hereby apologize to everyone for my Francis I comments. Just because I don't understand something that doesn't mean it isn't great art. I'm the one with the problem.

I forgive you, R62

R43, I started with the cobalt pieces. I saw some nice cranberry pieces and couldn’t pass them up. I heavily regret not snapping up a green set at a thrift shop. I do have one brown plate with a turkey on it that my mother had given me ten years ago. I’ve got one plate (99cents at Goodwill) that’s from the 1800s, which I don’t use. The other stuff is within the last hundred years. Never paid more than $7 for a single item. More like $2.

And I did get a repro soup bowl or two from TJ Maxx but it sticks out like a sore thumb.

R48, I LOOOOVE yours.

Sorry to take it off topic, but I also love Taylor and Ng.

Anyone else?

I had Le Chat, r66, back in the '70s. Wish I still did.

My glassware is Italian, Bormioli Rocco Oxford. I started out with an entire set of dinnerware, but gave it to my sister a long time ago. It goes nicely with my Colorstax.

I used to have very nice engraved wine glasses, two different sets, but I had a roommate who kept killing them in the dishwasher. The following year, I quit drinking, and double old fashioneds are all I've needed since.

R7

[quote] That is the whole point...because is was mother's and before her it was grandmother's and if it is like my china service it originated with great-grandmother and will go to my niece when I no longer have need for a china service or pass on to the big china cabinet in the sky.

And this is what she will do with it.

With my turquoise Fiestaware, I used Oneida Palette in azure blue (dark teal). It goes well with my Colorstax, too. I bought some in a light green (a little clashy because it's not chartreuse, which most of my Colorstax is).

I had regular stainless in a couple of modern patterns, but I gave it away with the dishes I downsized.

r7

Spode Colonel Blue china, Baccarat Massena crystal, Francis 1st sterling flatware (including a complete tea service, inherited from a great-aunt). I know, I know, it all clashes, but it makes for a very festive table setting.

I hate all of you for making me spend several hours per night now on Replacements.

So.....is it possible to own any of these beauties and have them go in a dishwasher? I’m obsessed.

Our RL Côte d’Azur in R48 is dishwasher safe. Use it daily and never had a problem. Our RL Spectator Cadet in R50 is a really fine china with a gold painted rim and we hand wash those. Generally, the more expensive china is, the more likely it won’t be dishwasher safe, because of handpainted details, decals, etc.

I’ll mention again how much fun it is to hunt for pieces of a china pattern. It took me almost two years to put together my primary 12-piece place setting and it became a hobby. Replacements.com is great for research and for buying that one elusive plate, but eBay is the best place to find good prices. I’ve also found good stuff on Etsy from time to time.

Oops. In R73, I meant service for 12 (ie. 12 five-piece place settings; dinner plate, salad plate, bread plate, cup and saucer). Most collectors try to build at least a service for six to eight.. but start with what you can and then hunt for bargains.

People don’t use “good” china anymore?

Newer stuff should be ok in dishwasher (check the bottom of the piece to see if it has the dishwasher safe logo) but older stuff should NOT be in the dishwasher unless you don't care about ruining it.

But OP, what about the unloved China and patterns that they are still making? Where do they fit in to all of this?

I love it when Data Lounge obsesses about the details. This thread is almost more fun, and is far more beautiful, than the Pasta Draining/Rinsing Wars.

R76, thank you. And this may be a dumb question, but when you say “newer stuff” when are you talking? From 90’s forward?

Dishwashers have been around for a long time. If a piece of china is dishwasher safe, it will say so. It is a great selling point and one the manufacturer would not fail to make.

True r80, but if I’m online perusing through vintage photos, I’m not sure all sellers would shoot the bottom. So I’m trying to understand if there are any visual clues aside from the bottom that might clue me in on age/dishwasher safe. Thank you for your comment, I know you’re right.

[quote]if I’m online perusing through vintage photos, I’m not sure all sellers would shoot the bottom.

They should, and most will if you ask them. The backstamp can contain essential information.

OMG! DON'T SHOOT THE BOTTOM!!!

OP, generally, you can dishwash any plate that is not gilt or hand painted.

Same with using in a microwave.

This whole thread screams

MARY!

r85, and...???

Lots of people choose white dishes because "all food looks better on white." I'm, like, "ehhh..." I think all food looks just as good on turquoise dishes. Red, orange, and brown foods are complementary. Green (salad, greens) looks quite good on it, too. And also eggs. I always eat my scrambled eggs and roasted potatoes on my Fiestaware.

Thank you for posting the Singapore Bird, r11. It's gorgillious. My own turquoise dishes are post-'86 Fiestaware.

I have a discontinued set of Avignon, by Royal Doulton that belonged to my mother. I use it at Easter and Thanksgiving and the colors work in any season depending on the color of the linens. It's rather feminine but hell, it was free.

I bought a Christmas set that I pull out for the month of December. It looks like the Spode Christmas tree pattern but is a Noritake knock off. Nine place settings for $30 at a thrift store.

I loathe patterned china. I appreciate that a great deal of artistry went into it, but like chintz fabrics and any kind of wallpaper, I always think it looks stupid and frilly - like eating your meals off lace underwear.

Some of the dishes shown here have very pretty designs, but I still can't picture setting a table with them. I feel like I'd be obliged to complete the image by greeting my guests dressed as an 18th century shepherdess.

"For the duration of the meal, your name will be Baa-Baa Boo-Boo! GIGGLE!"

I don't think you can go wrong with the classics. My mother absolutely relied on these!

I have never liked floral patterns in anything either, r89. I have never owned dishes with flowers on them. But I do like the turquoisity of r87's pattern.

Oh, poor r90.

Some of them are beautiful enough to serve as art objects. I don't mind the display of china as a form of decorative art, and appreciate Asian ceramics. But I think these dishes come from a time when fresh fruit and vegetables were less common and food, however delicious, was usually something brown. Nowadays food shouldn't have to depend on the dishes to look attractive.

R89 you said "Some of the dishes shown here have very pretty designs, but I still can't picture setting a table with them. I feel like I'd be obliged to complete the image by greeting my guests dressed as an 18th century shepherdess.."

Although I disagree with you about using patterned china, I adore your party theme idea and shall employ it at my upcoming gala afternoon tea.

When you're having this much fun who cares what the plates look like? Pewter was good enough for them.

oops, bad link. A similar painting.

We entertain. We expect to entertain again. So we have about 15 patterns, for 10 to 100. As I said, we entertain, a lot.

More than half are now discontinued and it has been an interesting process adding pieces, as items get broken and show their wear. None are "popular" patterns, except two standard Lenox white and ivory sets and a black that look good when simple is wanted. And some holiday/seasonal Lenox and Spode and outdoor-party or Greek-break-the-plate-party Mikasas. Most is bone but cheaper porcelain is fine for the stand-up or pool crowds.

We like several Theodore Haviland patterns. One is less fine and therefore the most available. All are relatively simple, compared to the alternatives. We use these the most because of the volume of them. These are all 1900-1904.

For smaller dinners with higher stakes we have a set of late 18th c. Bernardaud, a couple good 19th c. Wedgewoods, a good early deco Wedgewood and a Full-Lace Blue-Fluted Royal Copenhagen I inherited. But my favorite is a Ming Dragon Meissen set. I trot it out for the Lunar New Year weeks.

And Denby for breakfasts and brunches with a rustic touch. We usually use milk glass or colored glass for picnics - pretty and who cares what happens to it - unless we're doing the pheasant/confit-and-pâté thing.

However do you get all into the boot of your Rolls-Royce, [R97].

Darling R98, that’s for the staff to worry about

r88, is that the infamous double glazed Avignon?

I just inherited service for 26, Spode. My mom died. I decided to replace all my broken sets and use it for everyday. It is staggeringly beautiful and she never used it. Not me!

r101, "Alas, the page you requested was not found. Probably something to do with a court order or something."

[quote] a couple good 19th c. Wedgewoods, a good early deco Wedgewood

It’s Wedgwood, dear. No “e” in the middle. I would have thought you might have known that . . . .

Is R101 Anderson Cooper?

A pattern that has always appealed to me, Harvest by Lenox. Perhaps if I survive this current plague, I will start collecting it. Perfect for Thanksgiving but not locked into that one holiday.

R11, I am becoming quite fond of your Singapore Bird.

r105, for some reason wheat patters trigger me in a mid-century-modern traditional way.

Pair it up with any number of wheat silver patterns and I cringe.

I am glad SOMEBODY likes it.

But I do like Lenox. I have a set of chargers that would match the Reagan China if they were in Nancy Reagan Red:

r105, for some reason wheat patters trigger me in a mid-century-modern traditional way.

Pair it up with any number of wheat silver patterns and I cringe.

I am glad SOMEBODY likes it.

But I do like Lenox. I have a set of chargers that would match the Reagan China if they were in Nancy Reagan Red:

r106 r107 How do you like Noritake Bambina? I don't think it's a wheat pattern, but it's actual mid-century, made in the 1950s and '60s. Shax Riegler, who published the book DISH, started his collection with this pattern. I like their subtle gray-greenness. If I were still buying dishes, I'd probably try to put a set together.

I have this Rorstrand set. My mom collected it in the 70s!

I should add that the above is not discontinued, or rather, it was brought back, BUT the new pieces aren’t as nice as the original, for some reason.

R110 - Franciscan Desert Rose is exactly the same as your experience: the new pieces are nowhere near the quality of the pieces made pre-1970.

R111 I wonder why that is? I know with the Mon Ami pattern, the blue of the flowers on the new pieces just isn’t as rich.

R112, could be lead glaze. Lead paint and ceramics were legal in the U.S. until about 1980. The lead glazes have a beautiful depth to them that isn’t achievable with modern glazes.

This is a vintage blue Bauer glaze:

This is a brand new Bauer Pottery oil jar with the same color glaze, but lead free.

Here’s a really good photo of a lead glaze that shows what I mean. Look at the amazing depth of color. This is why people collect vintage California pottery. You just can’t make it like this any more. This is why old dinnerware had such depth of color that modern dinnerware can’t match.

My mom used to do hand thrown pottery in the 1970s. She always told me that red and orange glazes had a lot of lead, and not to put food with vinegar, oranges, pickles on them, because it would leech out the lead.

This is really comparing oranges to oranges. This is a modern Bauer Pottery lead free oil jar.

R87, I'm a fan of that Singapore Bird as well. It's basically light blue with some busy (but fine-textured) embellishments. I think it could work as an actual eating plate (not give you a headache to look at). IMO, what's hard on the eyes are the really saturated colors.

R97, could you post a photo of one of your favorite patterns? I'm also interested in the milk glass you were talking about. TIA.

R116, yes I can totally see it! “Depth” is the perfect word. Now I see why ceramics made in earlier decades are more attractive, softer and yet more vibrant.

Yikes, I didn’t know about certain foods leeching out the lead!

I love milk glass too, if you guys can post your favorites. Good idea R118.

R119, also avoid lemon juice and cooked tomatoes or tomato sauce on old plates with vibrant color. The more vibrant the color, the more lead.

That’s probably why old dishes were mostly white with colors around the band.

One thing you can do to avoid the problem is to mix plates, for example, if you’re using blue and white plates, there’s lots of blue and white modern patterns you can buy that will coordinate. Just get a different pattern for salad plates, that’s blue and white for your tomatoes, lemons, vinegars and pickles. Or get modern solid cobalt blue. Bauer or Fiesta have cobalt plates that will mix, or you could use white.

My mother gave me the set of her Pfaltzgraff Heritage that we grew up with. There is a big difference between the older and newer pieces. The new are thinner and lighter, and the glaze is not as thick.

R123, that is because the older Pfaltzgraff pieces were made at the factory in Pennsylvania. They closed the factory and the newer stuff is made — you guessed it — in China. I get any replacements I need on eBay and make sure it’s the old stock.

Same R124. Etsy has pieces, too. I found a lid for my large soup pot.

Loving this thread. When Mom died my two sisters and I had The War Over Who Gets What. Agree with poster who said it’s all about what grandma had, etc,

Though I was the odd guy out, I won the war, lobbying for everything I could get. We hardly ever used “good” china growing up.

I have a Mary! attachment to it, even stuff belonging to my elderly neighbor, What doesn’t fit in my cabinets is safely packed away in forest green quilted containers.

My sisters regret they didn’t get more. I say fuck them for all the abuse they gave me.

R90, I like how you got room for the meat, two sides, a bread roll and desert. But where does the cheese course go?

108: That's bamboo.

Singapore Bird, by Adams

okay r129, LOVE that!!! Are the glazes on those food-safe, do you happen to know? I absolutely love that.

Growing up in the 70's Mikasa Sun Blase were our everyday dishes.

R129, is the latticework on the edge a true red or is it more pink?

If you’re a little less fancy than R90, there’s a ceramic version of those called “grill plates,” which were originally meant for barbecues outside. They have less room for different courses, but there’s enough room for bbq ribs, potato salad and coleslaw.

I don’t really know what you do with the other courses. Have the waiter take this plate away and return with a separate dish and a finger bowl?

Singapore Bird is Adams Ironstone, so it's pretty but sturdy enough to use every day. They also made Ming Jade.

r108, I could see that out on the verandah.

And I have no Idea why r106 double posted. First time.

R129 I'm not sure about the red. It looks more magenta to me.

I have a set of Madison Platinum from Bernardaud that I bought bit-by-bit around the turn of the century. I still love it but truthfully we entertain more casually these days and use it much less . I prefer English transferware and other things now.

After 12 years, my China was pretty much destroyed by using it in the microwave. Then, Replacement.com found a number of dishes in perfect condition. I was thrilled.

I don’t like looking at patterned plates when I’m eating. The food colors and textures just turn the whole thing into a visual mess.

r138 What pattern, Pierre?

r137, I generally do not like platinum AND gold patterns but if I did my pref would be for Bernardaud Vulcain.

My ultimate want-to-buy Bernardaud patter is Vendome Crimson, though.

And I use my china.

[quote] R139: I don’t like looking at patterned plates when I’m eating. The food colors and textures just turn the whole thing into a visual mess.

Me, too, R139!

Wow, R137 and R141! They’re beautiful.

[quote] R137: ...And I use my china.

I have some beautiful champagne glasses, wine glasses, and rocks glasses, that I originally bought in the 1990s., (I think), and I made a point of using, because they were so beautiful. I later found knockoffs in Prague to make up for the broken ones and that I also used everyday for a while. I assumed everything would break in my luggage but nothing did. I don’t drink anymore and can’t find an excuse to use them now 😨🍾🍸🍷 (yes, I know that’s a martini glass, but could not find a rocks glass). I think that if you have beautiful dish ware or glasses, you must use them!

OP, I’m too frugal to even think of spending that much on a dish set. I think I originally got mine when Filenes was having a “going out of business sale” in 2005, and I replaced them in 2018, IIRC, Replacements.com did not have them in stock, but I created a “want list” and was notified a few months later that they were for sale, so I bought them.

[quote] R140: What pattern, Pierre?

R140, the lovely linked thread covers the whole dish-buying thing

We have been scanning space for the gayest communications in the galaxy.

This past Christmas I finally got around to replacing my everyday china. I’d been using a boring mix of crate and barrel and target plain white for years. I got sets of portmeirion Pomona and botanic garden harmony in forest green to mix together and I love them. I have several other patterns for entertaining but love having something attractive yet durable for everyday.

r142 Thank you, Pierre. The first thing I thought when I originally saw that thread was how thick the OP's Denby stoneware looked. (It was stoneware, right?)

Looking at everyone's patterns takes me away from the troubles of today, and so i appreciate each and every one of your postings. How I wish we could all sit around a great big dinner table and share a meal.

Ginny from Billing might have gone for Pierre's Denby stoneware. Look at the thick Pfaltzgraff Gourmet Brown she chose as her wedding china in 1979.

I grew up close to the Frankoma Pottery factory near Tulsa, Oklahoma. All our dinnerware growing up was Frankoma and, amazingly, I still have a lot of the pieces. Very heavy though so not in regular use... but it’s attractive, earthy stuff.

Ginny would have liked that, too, r147.

Better Frankoma images

R146 That’s the pattern I grew up with, which went very well with our colonial revival dining room set. And we lived near York county PA, so I’m sure we picked it up at the outlet. In Pennsylvania we went to the outlets for everything, but this is back when the outlets were at the real factories, not those pseudo shopping mall ones.

Where did your version of Ginny from Billing live? Mine worked in the accounting department of an ad agency in Seattle in the late '70s-early '80s. She had recently been promoted and did "not deal with petty cash any longer."

She lived in one of the northern suburbs and was fond of Scandahoovian cooking, macrame, and choir practice. She baked every departmental birthday cake from scratch until her husband died in '86, after which she said "WTF? Am I Martha Stewart?" and started buying them at QFC.

r146

R146 I wonder how that would look in a pastel? I like the glaze pattern but not the drab color.

r152, if that's true then you would HATE Martha's Wedgwood Drabware.

Good Lord she hyped this dirty dishwater colorway till her Turkey Hill geese went deaf.

Ugliest shit ever made by W.

R153 I just generally prefer pastels. I will look up the drabware, hahah.

Here's an article about Wedgwood Drabware, including Martha's versions, from TTQ David at his blog site, goodthingsbydavid.com. Unfortunately, the page is as drab as the dishes and consequently hard to read. But the pictures are nice.

The color of drabware is what the French call caca d'oie

Goose Shit

I could forgive you Morissey, r154, but pastels?

Morticia R157 life is better in pastel!

I don’t like the drabware. I will continue to collect vintage Nordic China!

More Singapore Bird.

That Frankoma is lovely!

It looks sturdy enough for every day use.

Love the color, especially.

[quote§] R145: Thank you, Pierre. The first thing I thought when I originally saw that thread was how thick the OP's Denby stoneware looked. (It was stoneware, right?)

I wound-up keeping a number of the Denby’s dishes, for when I’m lazy because I can zap them, but they are too heavy. I don’t known if they are bone China or not. I use my white dishes most of the time, but I can’t zap them or they’ll crack and stain, as my first set did.

Just a casual reminder, as I know it will be ignored, crockery, stoneware, ironstone, and ceramics are not included in the thread's title.

China and porcelain yes.

Haviland Apple Blossom...yes.

Franciscan Apple Blossom...no.

Peasants.

My sister's everyday china pattern is Franciscan Apple Blossom.

My everyday china pattern is Franciscan Desert Rose.

When I was 18 my parents sent me on a month long trip to England, Ireland & Scotland. My mother told me to buy the china pattern, crystal pattern & silver pattern of my choice.

I had no idea what I'd want latter in life but my mom was insistent. I bought (mom paid for) a service of 8 and all the serving pieces of Royal Doulton Carlyle. I have never used them a single time & would love to sell them.

I'm happy with my Waterford crystal pattern. It's their oldest pattern called Dunmore. I got a service of eight in hocks, water goblets and champagne glasses. Only reason I picked this pattern is because they told me it was the first pattern Waterford made.

[quote]When I was 18 my parents sent me on a month long trip to England, Ireland & Scotland. My mother told me to buy the china pattern, crystal pattern & silver pattern of my choice.

She knew.

I know I’m a weirdo, and it is a beloved classic pattern but there is no way in hell, even as an adult, that I cold eat food off a Franciscan Apple Blossom plate. It takes my “no fussy pattern” china phobia and cranks it way past 11. As a kid my grandma mixed 2 everyday sets when we visited - one had dainty flowers that were wearing away, the other was solid blue. I’d always get to the table early to make sure I had a solid blue plate, rearranging things if necessary. When I was around 11 we were visiting a friend of my mom’s and spaghetti was served on Apple Blossom plates. I actually got nauseous and (truthfully) said I didn’t feel well to get out of eating anything.

R165

LOL. Yeah, my mom knew. My issue is she had me make that sort of decision at too young of an age.

R162 is the guy who demands to see your papers when you’re caught, out after curfew, getting a tonic for your dying grandmother.

r167, what pattern(s) did you choose instead later, particularly in everyday dinnerware?

Discussion of “crockery, stoneware, ironstone, and ceramics“ is welcome.

Personally, along with all the other patterns mentioned, I really enjoyed the info and pictures of the Frankoma.

Another documentary on how it is made, a technique over 200 years old still used until recently. I love how the workers have old blue & white Spode for their work tables.

Royal Worcester - Ferncroft (Turquoise)

Pictures, please, if available.

r172, it looks like flying mustaches...

Anyone collect milk glass or jadeite?

R118, if I had to choose, the Meissen Red Dragon really is my favorite pattern despite that we use it only 5-6 times a year (Lunar New Year and when we have Chinese guests).

R97 I love that pattern.

R118, this is a family pattern (T. Haviland Schleiger 286c) we have, again from 1904, that is inexpensive so we've bought out the inventory on the replacement sites for a set of about 50. We use it for lunches and some summer dinner where we have older women, who appreciate it.

R118, we bought probably a thousand various white milk glass pieces (costing next to nothing) and aim at very simple things. Open-edge plates of different sizes. The milk glass is practically disposable and sets off more complex patterns.

Nothing special. I don't like fussy milk glass. Partner likes hobnail, which I don't care for.

R179 thanks. I bought a set (not matching) of milk glass vases, with different textures. They DO set other colors off nicely.

Does anyone have, like in their china closet, any really old Wedgwood?

[quote] any really old Wedgwood

How old? I have pieces of Wedgwood jasperware from the 19th century. I have sets of plates from other English makers from the 19th century, like Crown Derby and Minton.

For r181:

"Perhaps its popularity owed more to Josiah's skill as a businessman than as a potter. A gift of a tea set to Queen Charlotte, consort of George III, produced a appointment of Wedgwood as Potter to Her Majesty in 1765. Wedgwood immediately named his range of cream coloured tableware Queen's Ware."

If anyone has pieces of Wedgwood Queen's Ware, you have a history that goes back to the 17th Century.

Queen Charlotte should be a DL Icon for this alone.

R182 - The 19th century is plenty old enough. Much older than 19th century should be in a museum.

R183 - Josiah Wedgwood was one smart fucker. Does anyone know if Josiah Wedgwood was gay?

I have a center bowl in this pattern of Queensware.

This one broke my heart. After my late parents’ stuff had been throughly picked-over by nearby siblings, I drove down and found this unclaimed tea cup. I don’t collect teacups, but it felt right to take it. It’s for the a Woman’s auxiliary of the Mason’s. “AANONMS” stands for “Ancient Arabic Order of the Nobles of the Mystic Shrine”.

My Dad wanted to be buried with his Mason’s apron which is weird because he never did anything with the Masons. But we did as he requested and the Mason’s performed a nice ritual at the wake. It was a pretty cool service. The Catholic Priest gave a blessing; then the Black Baptist Minister from Rotary with whom Dad talked baseball, spoke. Then the Episcopal Priest said a word, also from Rotary, because Dad was nominally Episcopalian.

Then a family childhood friend escorted the funeral procession to the cemetery with his emergency lights. At the cemetery, three guys from the American Legion gave a 21 gun salute, and the flag was presented to my mother by another childhood family friend, who had grown to become an admiral and a bigwig with the Submarine fleet somehow, and who was wearing his Dress Whites, and saluted my Dad. From there, we went to a seaside hall for a reception. That was my job, choosing between the elegant function room at the nearby hotel that dated from the 1920s; or the less-formal function room at the nearby beach, which was the one I picked. Then I was responsible for planting all the flower boxes, since Dad died over a Memorial Day weekend and the annuals needed replacement.

So, a Dad had a nice send off; however, about this teacup. I had it sitting on a granite shelf and when I was dusting it, the cup fell and broke against the shelf. I was so upset, I immediately swept it up and threw it out because I was too horrified to even think of it.

My eldest sister has become a Mason-booster, and I eventually gave her the unbroken saucer, but I’d love to find a matching tea cup, to give to my sister. But I can’t find a match.

Ahh, the symbolism a single teacup can absorb.

Don’t laugh, but I’m a big fan of this Tampico by Red Wing. It’s great for an outdoor, summer Italian meal

lololololol

Back when I was a young gayling holding my mother's packages at Marshall Field & Co., in Chicago, I remember our walks past the Great Wall of China. We would discuss patterns and why they were or were not desirable as it was the early 60s and keeping up with the Joneses was in its GI Bill of Rights heyday. My mother developed a friendship with many of the sales associates and one day asked one of the Bridal Registry associate what was the most popular china pattern and without hesitation she said Wedgwood Colombia Enameled. Pressing further the associate said it was a classic pattern and that all the important Chicago families owned it. She said that 50% of the china registries were for Colombia Enameled. In Chicago, I wonder if it was the first ""designer" china? It was one of the first patterns I collected. I have a tower of it.

My mother got a bit chatty with the sales associate and asked her, personally, if there was a pattern she didn't like and could not explain its popularity. Sheepishly and quietly she said Meissen Blue Onion, when Royal Copenhagen Blue Fluted Full Lace was much better made in Blue on White. We walked over to Blue Onion and she was right.

Ahh, the nacient gayling.

For R189!

I love all of you TTQ's! being one myself after having been in the wholesale side of the industry! I've accumulated an insane amount of patterns through indecision and collecting fever. I prefer French and German porcelain from all eras, but primarily the 80's or Art Deco period. My favorite pattern is Paris by Bernardaud which has a Francois Leger theme. Crystal pattern Baccarat Capri, Lalique Angel champagne flutes and Ricci Impero silver. I also have Ceralene Otero for breakfast dishes; Ariel Green by Porcelaine Trianon; En Vogue, Chloe Fontaine & Monarch by Hutschenreuther; Autumn Leaves & Claudine by Rosenthal; Vintage Fiesta, Ginori Vecchio White; barware by Stuart in the Senator pattern, Ultra Stemware by Rosenthal and Holly Ribbons by Royal Worcester for the holidays. And yes, I use it all and love every pattern, I know, Uber Mary!

I bought 2 sets of Noritake Buckingham platinum from Costco. I figured it was discontinued. I have 16 place settings. Beautiful. Paid $103 total. Great deal.

R189 - Just did a Google search on "Meissen Blue Onion". That shit is expen$$ive to the max and does not look that great to me. The sales associate in Marshall Field was correct in her judgement.

R193 shopping at Fields was always an education in refinement. I also remember a conversation between my mother and the saleslady, who commandeered napery and ladies handkerchiefs, over the various forms of needle and bobbin laces. Field's wanted you to KNOW you were buying quality and gave patrons the knowledge of an informed purchase. Field's sales-staff, like may upscale department stores, were the original SMEs (subject matter experts).

And you r191, are loved.

I think Blue Onion is rather pretty.

Frolic by Laurel China:

Wow, I really do not like the Blue Onion at all. The pattern is ugly.

For R192. What a score!

r198, I believe that Blue Onion is the ugliest most expensive pattern ever made.

On the flip side, Royal Copenhagen's Flora Danica is the prettiest most expensive pattern currently in production.

There are some royal and imperial commissions that are more impressive, but RCFD is in a class of its own.

[And it started as a royal commission.]

I don't like either Blue Onion or Flora Danica. And didn't Royal Copenhagen make a really shitty men's cologne? I "won" a gift set in a '90s gift grab at a Christmas party. It put me off the brand forever and all time.

r201, then do you have a favorite outrageously expensive pattern that you do like?

r187: Tampico is fabulous! I like Red Wing's "Smart Set" pattern too.

They’re blue onions because the potters didn’t know they were copying Asian Transfer patterns for pomegranates

R202, as things turned out, I never became the 'outrageously expensive' type, so I don't actually have an answer to your question. But perhaps you can help me pick something out. I don't like florals, or anything patterned, really, yet I generally don't like plain white, either. I do like Bianco Vecchio Giorno, however. Is it outrageously expensive?

I remember being impressed by Christofle when I saw it at Bloomingdale's as a gayling in the 1970s, though I couldn't name, or even describe, any particular pattern.

Also, I like some of what I've seen in this thread from Bernardaud, plus who doesn't just love saying 'Bernardaud'?

r205, I would give a gander to Mottahedeh Corail.

Those are pretty, r206. The striations add kind of a shell interest. I would hope they're very thin.

Question: given the gold edge on all the pieces, would you be limited to gold-plated flatware, etc.? I've never been a big enthusiast of gold.

Plain old sterling silver is 100% OK with ANY pattern. Some people like vermeil and vermeil is good for all patterns except those with exclusively silver or platinum trims. A pattern like Bernardaud Vulcain is mixed and looks fine with either. The Mottahedeh Corail would look nice with either.

But if you like ridiculously thin china, Irish Beleek is superb. Basketweave and Neptune (I like pink) by Belleek are phenomenal. So thin I want to eat it like a tortilla strip.

For those of you who own china, do you actually use your china every day or close to it?

One of my relatives has some china (white with gold trim) that she keeps in a display cabinet. Never uses. Not even for holidays. I don't think her children are even interested in the china.

R209, we do for parties and holidays. There’s no point in not using it. I’m 40 yo btw, not 80. I get that people my age don’t want it but I do.

I have a small luncheon service made by Spode about 1825. I bought it on Ebay years ago and added pieces to it over the years, but now that Ebay is a shadow of its former self I am not able to find more pieces. My set is the pink cup and saucer on the right of the picture.

R211, that pink and gold is really beautiful. The handle looks a little fiddly. I need my mug handle! Very beautiful, though. I hope you enjoy it.

R211, the handles work well, it is actually a swan neck with the head at the bottom.

meant R212

I usually use these match convivio for dinner parties, they are plain but dressy. I use other plates for everyday.

I know I will be flamed for it's fussiness, but I instantly fell in love with Wedgwood's " Persia" when I found it and decided to purchase it. I know, Mary! but at least I use it especially for coffee or tea with guests.

R216, it’s not what I would choose for myself, but that pattern is beautiful! And the pattern and colors are a nice change.

Posting a photo of the "Persia" salad plate so we can see the pattern better. I think it's nice, actually. I would prefer it if there were no border(s) around the edge (brown stripe then the yellow/green/brown stuff).

I swear eating only off these has helped me lose weight:

Wow 211, that pink pattern is really pretty. What do you mean about Ebay being a shadow of its former self? Prices too high? Not enough product?

R218, I don’t know. IMHO the yellow/green/brown border allows for more options in setting the table. Malachite immediately came to mind.

When Woodward & Lothrop, one of our great department stores in DC, went out of business in the 1990s, I was able to pick up some wonderful china pretty inexpensively. I didn’t realize that Spode had discontinued the Christmas Rose pattern. Nor that a service for eight now fetches so much on the secondary market.

R221, IMO, there's enough green in the Persia pattern (inside the reddish part). You could still use those candlesticks / candle holders (green).

R118/R180, I wish we were in the same town. We have about 500 white milk glass vases we don't need anymore and have been thinking of just dumping them into a dumpster. We used them for years donating flower arrangements in the vases and letting the church ladies tote them off, at least another 300 hundred, and now we have this pile and no one values them for anything even to take free.

R224, please don’t dump them. I read that some people are starting to get interested in milk glass as a collectible.

I’d try calling local florists, nursing homes and hospitals, they need vases all the time. Maybe somebody who teaches floral arranging would be glad to take them, or a restaurant. If they are bud vases, a lot of people put one or two flowers on a nightstand or on a restaurant table. Or you could just list them on Craigslist as a set and see what happens.

R164’s story of picking out a pattern too young, and regretting it later, reminds me of myself. People’s taste gets more sophisticated as they get older.

I picked Blue Danube (similar to Blue Onion) in my early twenties. I enjoyed it for about ten years but just got sick of it because it was too busy. It’s fine for people that never change their home decor and use white and not ivory. But I was young and went through a few styles and it wasn’t my taste any more. I ended up handing it down to a younger relative who never changes her style, and she still uses it, many years later.

I wonder how young brides picked out their patterns in the old days. Did someone at the department store steer them the right way, or did their mothers? Because women used to marry really young when that stuff was important. I can’t picture an eighteen year old picking Lennox.

This would not go with a single thing in my house now.

R222, that’s the fight whenever a Mom dies.

As a dealer, I could flip Spode Christmas in a minute - unwashed/unwrapped. The harshest sales were where I could see the anger and resentment in the buyer’s eyes as they talked about getting screwed out of Mom’s/Grandma’s Christmas Spode.

LPT: sub-divide sets- parceling out equally - and make heirs trade amongst themselves to settle the matter.

R226 What style do you prefer now?

r227 are you talking about Spode Christmas Tree or Spode Christmas Rose?

Correlle man here.

Sorry, it was Christmas Tree pattern. It was the Midwest and customers had that necklace-with-turtleneck look going on.

r231, you mean the MOTHERS of Karens!

r230: Corelle has a few patters that are rather nice. I love the "Cafe" pattern, just three or four cherry-red bands around the rim. Perfect picnicware.

A few months a friend of mine was left a large set of Franciscan Rose - he did not want it and none of his friends did either (I prefer Apple). So he gave it to Housing Works and to my surprise it was there for nearly two weeks. They are pretty, well made plates!

Franciscan Ivy is the most collected now - it was Lucy & Rickys pattern.

R211 - What happened to ebay?

Fifteen years ago I purchased a ton of 1940s thru 1960s vintage costume jewelry from ebay. I have not been on ebay since then.

"A few months a friend of mine was left a large set of Franciscan Rose - he did not want it and none of his friends did either (I prefer Apple). So he gave it to Housing Works and to my surprise it was there for nearly two weeks."

R233 - If it was pre-1970 Franciscan Rose Dessert, the bastard should have called me! I would gladly have taken it off his hands. The dishes are fairly easy to find for a price but it is the serving pieces that are rare, especially the serving pieces in production for only one or two years.

[quote]What happened to ebay?

In terms of selling dishes, the cost of postage has gone way up. I tried selling Fiestaware on eBay, but no one wanted to pay the postage. No one.

I ended up selling two separate groupings to local collectors on Craigslist. Other, less well known lines I gave away, also locally. Some were picked up by the Habitat for Humanity store (including stuff I now wish I hadn't given away). That's what I would do now if I had things I wanted to sell that no one wanted to buy.

Except for more expensive stuff, it no longer even pays to ship things to replacements.com, the shipping cost is so high.

[quote]R233 Corelle has a few patters that are rather nice. I love the "Cafe" pattern

I thought this said [bold]caftan

Generally, and I do not mean everyone, but generally, mothers in the 70s who had a Corelle pattern, usually drank.

What an interesting thread! I learned so much -- partly because I'm so ignorant of this subject that just about everything is news to me, but also because the posters are so knowledgeable. And such beautiful pictures too, what a lot of lovely stuff is out there.

Can someone explain what the Half Moon Dish at the link is used for? I've never seen such a thing on a table, so intriguing.

R239 - I have two "HALF MOON DISH" and they fit perfectly on a plate. I use them for serving two different types of dip or gravy.

I am sure there is a more "formal" use for a HALF MOON DISH.

My dishes are deeper than the one in the picture you posted.

Originally, they were crescent salad plates or bone plates. However they are lovely and unusual plates that can be repurposed to meet whatever needs a person may have.

[quote] mothers in the 70s who had a Corelle pattern, usually drank

This is important social information.

They also bought the best snacks.

Bone plates, R241? How macabre! In a charming, genteel way, of course.

R241 - That makes sense as the Half Moon Dish could be used for salad and placed north of the dinner plate.

The Half Moon Size of the dish does not hog table space from the sterling silver centerpiece and sterling silver candle stick holders.

R243 - Would come in handy if one is formally serving take-out from Buffalo Wild Wings or peel and eat shrimp from Lobster Lady.

Given the way I eat now, I would use half-moon dishes for anything I wanted to eat while sitting in front of my computer. I don't have any, so I use any smallish, oval platter that doesn't take up as much room as a dinner plate. This one is only 7" across on the narrow side. Perfect for most meals I don't eat in a bowl.

r245, interesting that the instances you cite would also require finger bowls. How delightful!

Amherst by Wedgwood. Simple, but elegant.

I have my family’s pre WW2 Limoges service for 12. Holiday use. Sentimental as we always used it at the big one Thanksgiving and Christmas.

R247 - I have the Franciscan Desert Rose finger bowls.

r236: Same here! Selling plates has become nearly impossible because the cost of shipping is no SO high. Ad I'm finding it hard to get good plate shipping boxes longer than 12" across square but not as deep as cubes

r235: The most elaborate piece in the group was a divided oval vegetable bowl. Tall teapot, covered sugar, creamer, dinner and luncheon plates (no soups) and at least 12 teacups and saucers. NOBODY wants teacups and saucers.

r238: My mom had Harvest Gold Butterfly. She didn't drink, but popped valium like Pez. Same idea.

R251 - The most valuable piece is the tall teapot as it is difficult to find.

The problem with the cups & saucers from any pre-1983 "Desert Rose set" is that they are true tea cups not coffee cups so their usage is limited.

In 1990 Johnson Brothers, who bought Franciscan, started to produce a true coffee cup. I have eight of them but they do fit on the original tea cup saucers.

R251 - Also the pre-1970 large water-lemonade pitcher is very difficult to find.

R245 & R247, it sounds as if dining evolves, just as language does (though more gracefully, one hopes). If one must eat take-out chicken wings (with one's fingers!), at least let us use charming crescent-shaped bone dishes with finger bowls as part of the experience!

R47, oh my god those are absolutely gorgeous! This may be my first MARY! moment on DL.

Melmac! In the finest homes.

Homer Laughlin's Epicure...

R238, my mom had Corelle and drank red wine (after dinner, not with it). The connection never occurred to me, but you could be right.

To tell the truth, my favorite table ware is the enameled camping stuff my parents used on trips. I like that I can bang it around and not worry about it. And the vintage colors are cool.

The dark turquoise ones are my favorite. Kind of like this, but even darker.

^^ oh god- I just did an image search on “vintage enamelware”

Rest assured I have nothing like this!

There was a very expensive china pattern I absolutely lusted after in the late 80s. Beautiful hand painted flowers and I think the rim of the plate MIGHT have had some type of lattice work.

Anyone know what it was?

I actually think it was Royal Copenhagen's Flora Danica.

Could it have been enamelware?

Metlox California Mobile

No, R263, I think it actually was Flora Danica. Or at least it looked VERY similar. But a Google search just revealed that Flora Danica was only made until 1960, and I can remember going in snazzy specialty stores and seeing it on the shelves in the late 80s.

It wasn't Meissen or Limoges but it looked very French to me.

I have Noritake Montvale Platinum white bone china for super fancy dinners,

For usual fancy dinners, I love my Villery & Boch Twist Alea service. It always cheers me up to use it.

Sorry - that is repellent!

I’m a fan of Ben Seibel’s designs; this is just one of many;

I love r264's extreme moderne Metlox shapes.of the 1950s and early '60s. but they (along with Franciscans red-hot "Starburst" dinnerware) are often very unwieldy to use and stack in the drainer.

Grant Crest’s Tempo has a similar vibe to Franciscan’s Starburst.

[R265] Flora Danica was made in the 80's when I worked in the tabletop business. Most stores didn't want to invest in a sample as it was so rare to sell any of it. Some of the stores like Scully & Scully,, Cardel Ltd, Michael C Fina may have had a dinner plate cup and saucer on display. It was around $1400 for a 5 pc setting back then. The people who liked that style usually bought Herend patterns for less than half that price. It was also hand painted and on a copied Meissen shape, no pierced border.

[quote]Flora Danica was made in the 80's when I worked in the tabletop business.

What did you do, r272?

I have a soft spot for Lu-Ray...

Serenade...Homer Laughlin's answer to Lu-Ray

Eva Zeisel...

[R273] I was a manufacturer's rep for a few different china companies. I was self employed, but worked in one of my customer's stores on Saturdays to join their Blue Cross plan. I also sold other lines like giftware, high end picture frames. It was a dream job and I got to buy everything wholesale!! That's why I ended up with a house full of china and crystal. I am also [R191]

Here's another great short video on the making of Spode's Blue Italian, worth watching.

I wonder if the factory workers are paid a decent wage, get good benefits, etc.

Have any of them ever snapped after 20 years of pressing handles onto teacups??

Thanks, r277 r191 TTQ4Life. I think I would have loved a job like that.

r273

r205

r14

r7

Has anybody mention Mikasa's classic flair, in grey, peach or white?

Do you all know that the 'Bunnykins' logo on the back of all the UK produced kids tableware depicts two bunnies fucking! Such fun!

A question for the TTQs on this thread:

I collect a LOT of china. I have found that buying a complete set with cups and saucers is rather uneconomical when it comes to space. Instead, I collect by the tower and either 8,10 or 12 count. So I have neat towers of say12 bread plates on top of 12 salad plates on top of 12 dinner plates (all with padded spacers). If I want to waste space it will be for cream soup cups and stands. Too many cups otherwise.

Is there a rhyme or reason to other TTQ collecting habits here?

I think that Spode’s Stanford Flowers pattern is a reasonable and less expensive alternative to Flora Danica. Sorry that they discontinued it in 2015. Years ago I picked up several of the large serving pieces, including a covered tureen like the one in the photo, at some department store sale on china.

Spode Stafford White is the main Downton Abby dinnerware pattern.

The covered vegetable bowls are magnificent.

But I wonder where that GARGANTUAN sauce boat that the footmen jockeyed came from?

[R281] I certainly remember Mikasa Classic Flair! That caused a lot of tabletop drama, as it was a close knockoff of Hutschenreuther's Chloe, designed by Karl Lagerfeld! The Chloe pattern was 4X the price in plain white due to royalties and the manufacturing process which actually is not a perfectly round dinner plate--the calla lily leaf precludes that. Classic Flair had the complete calla lily embossed on the surface. People don't realize that Mikasa was simply a marketing company using various factories in Asia to copy the latest designs unveiled every February at the Frankfurt Home & Tabletop Fair in Germany. The Japanese and companies like Mikasa succeeded in putting a lot of German and French porcelain companies out of business. Once China began exporting, the Europeans are left with a very small high end group of manufacturers barely holding on.

[R283] Most people collect china patterns like you do in multiples of 20 pc sets either 8 or 12. I know that continental European manufacturers always did multiples of 6 in their standard packaging. The people I worked with, primarily German, did their settings differently. They had a dinner service, everything matching for entree service, platters and vegetable bowls, tureens, etc. What they did differently, that I really liked, was a different service/pattern for dessert after the table was cleared. There would be a different pattern for the coffee/tea cups, dessert plates, coffeepot, sugar, creamer, torte platters, handled cake plates, etc. It could also be more economical if you wanted a high end pattern to just do the coffee or dessert service in that!

[R286] Me again, I forgot to post a link to the real Chloe shape that shows the leaf on the dinner plate extending beyond the basic circular shape! The Fontaine pattern linked was the best selling one when this was popular in the 1980's. It was designed by Karl Lagerfeld and Bloomingdale's sold tons of it @ $149 per 5pc place setting.

I’ve used my set of Mikasa French Embassy Red for several Thanksgiving dinners. The red that they used for the border is not garish like the Reagan White House china, which is more like a lipstick red.

[R260] That enamelware would look great with Villeroy & Boch's Acapulco pattern!

I like Vistosa.

R290, I saw someone on Instagram who collected both Acapulco and Fiesta. It looked fantastic together.

r291: I LOVE VISTOSA! As a group, the colors are a bit heavier than their 1930s Fiesta counterparts: (green, cobalt, red and yellow), but I think food looks better on it. I also love the stylized scalloped border. The serving pieces (ball pitcher, soups, cream soups, Teapot, creamer and covered sugar and open serving bowl...and the rare gravy boat) are a bit more traditional (or fussier) than Fiesta. They were probably hoping to entice housewives that wanted nothing too modern....but with a snap of fashionable color. Vistosa is also very well made.

Surprisingly, there are no covered casseroles The big Salad bowl is gorgeous, and I prefer it to the Fiesta one.

Clarice Cliff...

I like it better, too, r293.

Pru from the packaging plant, the patron saint and muse of this thread.

This is a great documentary on Edith Heath.

Lancaster by Adams.

I love Christmas / holiday patterns, the kind with the Christmas tree on it. (I'm not even religious, I just like it.) I could use it all year 'round. Looking for some bread & butter plates or small salad / dessert plates with a Christmas tree on it. I also like the Lennox with the holly berries. I also like this Pfaltzgraff Winterberry pattern. Here's the salad plate.

Not sure if I like scalloped edges that much.

Does anybody have any suggestions? TIA!

[quote]R299 Does anybody have any suggestions? TIA!

What you want is some bright, festive, holiday enamelware.

You’re welcome.

[R299] The Pfaltzgfaff Christmas Heritage pattern would match the weight of the Winterberry without the fluted edge and embossing. Happy Holidays or Christmastime by Nikko might work. Those are more like ceramic and a bit heavy. If you go to Replacements and enter Christmas China Patterns in the search bar, there are 250+ pages, you're sure to find something. I wouldn't do enamelware unless you're very casual or camping. It's metal, not porcelain, bone china or ceramic.

Thank you, R300 and R301. I'm actually liking the Pfaltzgfaff Christmas Heritage mug.

I have flipped through the Replacements.com Christmas / Holiday patterns. There's so much to look through, I just wanted to get your guys' opinions.

I love restaurant ware. I have several pieces of Syracuse Millbrook.

My mother’s tea service is “Derby Posies.” It’s pretty, but the demitasse cups are so small they could practically be used as shot glasses.

I don’t see the point.

RCD Traditional Imari: a service for 12 with more extra pieces (cake plates, tankards, the oval vegetable bowl, the octagonal vegetable bowl, a soup tureen) than we know what to do with.

Lunt "William and Mary" silver, again for 12, along with the ice cream spoons and the ice tea spoons and napkin rings and coasters and even a magnifying glass.

Two china cabinets filled with Waterford's "Sheila" pattern stemware which, like the silver, is very plain. Maybe because the china is so OTT?

I inherited it all and hardly ever use it. The china is gorgeous, though.

That pattern screams [italic]pent up rage.[/italic]

It frightens me.

Well, at least it’s nice to know, R305, that it’s worth a few thousand dollars if you wanted to get rid of it.

I like some of the Imari patterns, but that one seems very dark and somewhat forbidding.

I don't think it is worth much, R307: no-one wants this stuff any more. You never see fine china or crystal on bridal registry lists any longer. Twenty or thirty years ago, yes, but not now.

My grandmother started collecting it, probably getting some as wedding presents when she got married before WW I, so I guess people's tastes were different then.

Royal's Blue Heaven. Buy a few pieces at a time at the grocery store.

I should have been more clear: R305, I was speaking of all the dinnerware — china, silver, crystal.

[quote] I don't think it is worth much, [R307]: no-one wants this stuff any more.

That’s a popular assumption — and it is true to some extent — but not entirely accurate. For example, a similar set of RCD Imari china sold two years ago at an auction house in NC for $2250. A set of just the dinner plates went for $900 last year. My statement would not be correct for every set of grandma’s china. Some sets are quite dreadful and you can’t give the stuff away. But a full set of old RCD in the Imari pattern would do well at the right auction house. The “plainness” of the sterling and crystal patterns is actually a boon to resale because they have a more modern feel, and go with just about everything. Full sets of William & Mary Lunt sterling routinely go for about $1,250 to $1,500. The “Sheila” goes for about $200-$300 for each set of 12 stems (wines, water goblets, champagnes, etc.).

I stand by my assessment. The three sets should fetch several thousand dollars.

R175 I do! Well, maybe. Unlike many here I was raised by parents who frowned upon consumerism and acquisitiveness in all their forms. Unfortunately they birthed me, lover of things and goods since toddlerhood. There are a few table-related thing I collect these days, but I've come to all of it through my personal taste alone, free of all thoughts from family re: what is good taste and what isn't good taste.

1. Fire King white restaurant ware. The super chunky-looking old stuff, originally extremely cheap, meant for diners and the like. It has to be white, it has to be restaurantware and it has to be extra heavy. I've built up a collection and actually eat off it a lot of the time (I can't justify owning it all if I don't use it) - would recommend for anyone trying to lose weight as it's all rather petite in size compared to modern (non fancy) table goods. Example linked.

2. Random old glassware. Depression glass. Milk glass. I find milk glass pale and beautiful, luminous in certain light conditions. A lot of what's been posted in this thread is ugly to me. And yes, I understand many will attribute that to my admitted philistinism.

3. My glasses are the Arc International Luminarc Working glasses, which can be had for $20 for a set of 4 on Amazon right now. They're perfect. Cheap, sturdy (won't shatter at boiling liquids) and beautiful to my eye. I love the plain lines and slight chunkiness of them.

4. Flatware. David Mellor Pride in stainless steel. Beautiful, unfussy and doesn't need to be babied.

I love hearing what people find beautiful and what they have in their own houses.

[R311] I thought your likes seemed modest, until I got to the David Mellor stainless! I like the mix of the clunky with the streamlined Pride flatware. I think that it's wonderful! All the various combinations on this thread are special because someone put some thought into what they wanted their table to look like. I have a huge appreciation for people who create an interesting presentation, it even makes the food taste better! Maybe I exaggerate that a bit, but this was my favorite thread ever. Seeing the various design combinations brought back so many memories! I know, Mary!

This. thread inspired me to break out my mom’s Crown Derby coffee set when I was visiting her earlier tonight. (I go there once a week to drop off groceries and balance her checkbook.)

Some thoughts: the cups really don’t seem that tiny after a meal. And I assume if you were using fancy china for tea, you’d have plates of cookies or cake or finger sandwiches or whatever, and no room for a Starbucks sized cup of coffee.

She said her mother got the set for her on a trip to London, and she’d used it sometimes as a bride, but always appreciated it more “sculpturally.” Then she said one of the most DL things I’ve ever heard (I swear to god)

[italic]“I bet when Olivia DeHaviland lived in Paris, she bought a lot of pretty European things...”[/italic]

My mom won’t be here forever. I’m glad I had some coffee with her out of her best china when I had the chance. So thank you, OP [bold]: )

T305, I fell in love with your pattern and early Pinder Bourne as a gayling because I thought they were Art Deco.

R313, I love the thinness of that cup. My grandma used to complain about the mugs at our house, she wanted a thin tea cup like she had at home.

You were supposed to keep one of her place settings at your house, R315.

Good idea, R316. But grandmas can be bitches, too. She was really crazy about china and silver. She probably wouldn't have trusted us keeping a set at the house. She once interrogated us kids, accusing somebody of losing / stealing a fucking piece of silver (while at her house). To this day, I think she misplaced it.

My grandmother was really smart. When I turned 13 she told me she was longer going to buy me clothes and dolls for birthday, graduations, special occasion and Christmas presents. She said she wa going to start buying me silverware and I was too pick-out a pattern. I choose Chantilly because it was her pattern and each time she wanted to give me a present she gave me a piece of Chantilly silver. By the time I graduated from college I had almost 50% of a complete Chantilly silver service for eight and 90% of the serving pieces. I am so glad she did this for me.

Chantilly isn't my style, r318, but your grandma sure is.

R319 - I choose Chanilty for four reason, It was my grandmother's pattern, it is plain so works for lunch as well as non-formal dinners, it is mid-range in price for silverware and it has been around for a long time so probably will never be discontinued.

Chantilly is one of the top ten of all time sterling patters. It most certainly is used at formal dinners.

It was a superb choice. on both your parts.

I was told that out of choices for sterling, china and crystal that you can have one or two complicated patterns, but one must be simple. And that the order of expense is silver never breaks, China is harder than crystal. So, expensive silver, expensive china and moderate crystal. I have simple crystal. I hope this makes sense.

Gorham Chantilly: $289.95 per set. Nice!

What’s the deal with that tine on the salad fork?

I love Amherst, R248. I can't believe it's discontinued.

[quote] What’s the deal with that tine on the salad fork?

That slight curved, somewhat thicker tine is similar to the tines used on cake, pie (pastry), and individual pickle forks* of the late 19th/early 20th century and was made that way to be a bit sturdier and thus be better able to break a piece of cake (or pie or whatever) with the fork alone without having to use a salad or dessert knife.

*Very few services came with individual pickle forks. Whiting’s Louis XV may have been one of the only ones.

Chantilly is neither plain- nor simple-looking to me.

To expand on r325, it is called a Cutting Tine.

Because American service, by course, does not USUALLY have a salad KNIFE (Being a TTQ, EVERY course fork of mine has a knife) American flatware makers placed a cutting tine on the salad fork. I believe that the cutting tine was originally designed by Reed and Barton pre-1900. It is fairly ubiquitous.

R326 - Compared to a lot of very ornate sterling silverware out there, Chantilly is simple but elegant. As I said above, I feet comfortable using Chantilly for lunch and non formal dinners. I failed to mention that I use it for formal dinners too.

Wow, good to know, R325 and R327.

Thanks 😊

Umm, what if you are left-handed?

😬😬😬

r330, Then you pick a silver pattern with mirror cutting tines on the salad fork.

Francis First is dated back to 1909ish, so the problem has been solved for some time.

Francis I solved the problem. I personally prefer Sir Christopher, but I guess it's an upstart dating from 1936.

R328, would Gorham Strasbourg be considered a full-blown, dinner-appropriate version of Chantilly? For some reason, Strasbourg costs less for a place setting: $259.95.

I posted above that I have the Oneida (cube) Michelangelo, a stainless steel knock-off, which I like a lot.

TIA.

R313,

Many thanks for sharing with us. A special and sweet moment and memory for you always.

Thank you again.

You guys are good. 😘

I wish someone would recreate and sell White House China patterns. Especially the historic ones.

R336, Woodmere China in Pennsylvania used to make reproductions of a number of the 19th century patterns, but they went out of business in 2012. You can still find their china on eBay.

R333 - Yes you are correct about the Gorham Strasbourg. Gorham Strasbourg is a pattern I would only use for a full blown dinner service.

Please take note the Gorham Chantilly comes in two "weights", a normal weight and a heavy dinner weight. The heavy dinner weight is quite pricey for the simple reason it has more silver in it. Take care you are comparing apples to apples.

Reed and Barton had three weight classifications of silver.

Regular weight...unstamped.

HEAVY weight...stamped H (generally forks and spoons) Fairly common.

MASSIVE...stamped M. Fairly rare.

R339 Thanks for that, I had no idea various weights were available. There are two sizes from most American manufacturers: Dinner Size and Place size. The Dinner size has a larger/longer dinner fork and knife, so it would weigh more. An interesting note: Continental manufacturers use the larger size flatware, but their dinner plates are 9.75 to 10" Most Americans use the place size (smaller flatware) but want larger dinner plates, at least 10.5" Another constant issue I had with the German manufacturers was the cup size and handles. Their standard is 6 oz and Americans want at least 7 oz. If a sausage fingered American can't get their fingers through the handle it also was a problem. They never figured out the "pinch" maneuver for the handle. I've linked one of the offenders.

There is Continental Size, Dinner Size, Luncheon/Place Size and Tea/Breakfast/Youth Size place settings.

In R&B FF I have dinner size for main course, luncheon size for meat appetizer course and an extra set of luncheon knives for salad knives. I use the Tea setting for deserts like Poire Helene where all three implements are used.

Don't get me started on soup spoons.

R341 - Are you referring to the size of the utensil or the weight of the utensil?

Those are dimensional/size differences.

I pulled out my copy of the 1911 R&B Trade Catalogue and

Tea spoons, Dessert spoons and forks, Table spoons and forks are all offered as Regular, Heavy and Massive weights.

Table spoons and forks are what Dinner pieces were called way back when. Luncheon /place sets were used for dessert. Way back when, there was still a clinging to the English sizing of flatware where there is simply a large, medium and small of anything.

The Countess of Carnarvon sets the formal ENGLISH place setting with the three sized implements in the picture provided.

R342 - Thanks for clarification and all the R&B info.

According to William Richard Henry Hanson FRSA, a British etiquette dude, if you do a true formal setting then each each course must have its own knife.

If you look at the picture in r344, you will see that that is true except for spoon courses. (You never see a soup knife)

Plus the ultimate dismissal of American silver is the two fork fish course set in Gosford Park. Snooty English Toffs eschew the parvenu/arriviste fish knife.

r343^^^

But this is a china thread.

I could never understand why Tiffany Black Shoulder was so expensive.

"(You never see a soup knife)"

R-346 - I actually saw a soup knive one time at a fancy seafood restaurant. I ordered a chunky grouper chowder soup for lunch and it was served with both a soup spoon and knife as the grouper chunks were rather large. It was really good.

R348 - Because it is Tiffany and comes in a blue Tiffany box.

Black Shoulder *is* nice, R348. Reminds me of emojis, in a good way. 🍅 (tomato emoji).

IMO, Tiffany (and Cartier) jewelry are overpriced b/c of the name brand. I wouldn't be surprised about the china being overpriced.

Here's a Black Shoulder dinner plate. $649.95 for the one plate. 15 available, hand wash.

[quote] Don't get me started on soup spoons.

R341, what about soup spoons? I know there's the cream soup spoon, which is round. There's another spoon, which is more oval or ellipse-shaped.

As long as Lenox Imperial is OK, I'm OK.

There are also bouillon spoons, which are smaller than cream soup spoons. The bouillon would be served in bouillon cups which are generally smaller versions of the cream soup cups.

Again this is a china thread, but I own chowder spoons, cream soup spoons, bouillon spoons and pointed oval soup spoons. All depending on the soup receptacle and the viscosity of the soup.

One of the reasons I serve bouillon for formal lunches is because I like the smaller bouillon cup and stand with the small bouillon spoon.

Odd, but it is perfectly acceptable to use the handles for the last bit in the cup.

r349, I can definitely see a fish stew in a fish restaurant using a knife. But, and I beg to split hairs here, a stew isn't a soup. But if you own silver you get to use it any way you like. Even if it is using a soup knife in a soup plate.

So you tip the cup to get the last of the soup?

I can see Lady MARY! Crowley tipping the bullion cup to get the last bit of soup.

Uh, no I can’t, even if she just arrived from being stranded in the middle of the Sahara desert and was starving.

r356, You pick up the cup by the handlers and sip.

Bouillon down the pie hole!

=====================

At lunch or tea, there apparently is a proper way to use the cup for devouring soup. From Amy Vanderbilt’s 1952 “Complete Book of Etiquette”:

“Soup or bouillon served in a handled cup or even in a small cup-size bowl (Oriental fashion) is drunk. If there are dumplings or decorative vegetables or other garnish floating on top, these may be lifted out first with the spoon before the soup is drunk. Noodles or other things which may be in the bottom of the cup are spooned up after the liquid has been drunk."

1952, R358? Way too modern!

I always love the dinnerware threads, but this one is hitting giddy new highs.

OP here. Loving all these discussions and knowledge. Let’s not sweat the small stuff. Yes, the thread started with china, but we can certainly let it evolve. And I couldn’t figure out how to edit the thread title....

A big thank you to all those who have posted in this thread!

Little Black Sambo.

Lenox Westchester: bling for the table!

I love these threads. OP @361, sadly I don’t think that we can edit anything — text or title. Some day, maybe.

R348 If you like Tiffany Black Shoulder, which I believe was made for them by Haviland in France, there is also Lynn Chase's Jaguar Jungle. It's a similar idea and much less expensive. Tiffany's charges a lot because of their name. They do not own a dinnerware factory and contract out the production. Cartier, Versace, Dior and Christofle did /do the same.

Well, see, R358, I thought of that option as well and was going to mention it but I thought it might be too uncouth and would’ve been laughed out of the thread.

You learn something new every day. ☺️☺️

And is it artichokes or asparagus that you can pick up with your fingers to eat?

Both asparagus & artichoke leaves can be eaten w/fingers.

Well, R366 and R367, the Victorians had an implement for that: the individual asparagus tongs. That way you could eat the asparagus without having to cut it but also without having to ever touch it. There is another style with three individual fingerholes on either side of small tongs that look like a stalk of asparagus. That variation seems more difficult to maneuver just to avoid touching your food at the dining table (which the Victorians were loath to do).

I’m unaware of any implement with which to eat artichokes.

[quote] artichoke leaves can be eaten w/fingers

How else would you eat them?

Are artichoke leaves eaten anywhere other than America? I don't recall them being mentioned in Jane Austen novels. Uncouth, really -- dragging them through your semi-clenched teeth to scrape the flesh off.

r359, it was a modern iteration of a practice hundreds of years old. Bouillon was a lunch course. Handles were used as wanted.

I all my years of being a TTQ there is only one implement that was enjoyed in America and scorned by the Downton Abbey class and THAT was the Fish Knife. Queen Victoria used a fork and a bread "pusher". Simple, functional. The Crawleys used TWO forks (the Gosford Park table) because that is what they did to eschew the parvenu and arriviste Fish Knife. Everyone else below the peerage enjoyed the use of fish service cutlery. Also, the fish knife is always dull. It never cuts, it flakes.

When artichokes are served, finger bowls are mandatory.

Most modern elegant tablewares do nothing for me. To my eyes they seem sterile.

[quote]How else would you eat them?

Um, with your mouth, R369

r373, like bobbing for apples?

More pictures of pretty china patterns, please.

I wonder who is buying fine china nowadays. I would love a tea set, but, where to put it? How much does it cost, etc.

Are many companies still around?

This was part of my parents' wedding china. Too many years in the attic caused it to 'craze'.

I still plan on buying a few examples of British artist "Clarice Cliff'.

R376 - I really like that china. It is a great pattern.

Kingswood by Royal Doulton. Not the best photo.

Summer Day by Villeroy & Boch.

Here is a service by Paragon China that was named for Mary of Teck, a woman who should be the icon of DL Tabletop Queens everywhere. The “Queen Mary Pattern” (# 8902) was first designed for a service presented to Queen Mary on a visit to the Paragon (then Star) factory in 1913. The pattern was re-issued in the late 1920s to the public. It was made for many years thereafter.

Mary of Teck, the Queen consort of George V, was famous for visiting homes and pressuring the hosts to fork over to her pieces of their china that she fancied.

For Paragon collectors, this pattern is the top of the line. It sells for a lot of money at shows, but if you look around you can pick it up for decent prices. I’ve bought a lot over the last 25 years. Replacements currently has some of the pieces on sale.

Yes, it is pretty over-the-top with all those flowers, cartouches, and gold. It’s probably as anti-minimalist as you can get on one plate.

That's beautiful R381 ! It's definitely in the category of too much is a good thing! My sister has an ornate Rosenthal pattern called Sanssouci Diplomat that has a lot going on too. The relief on the plates is a copy of the plaster moldings in the Sanssouci Palace near Berlin, which gives it a lot of textural interest. It was around $325 for a 5 piece place setting but can be picked up on the cheap on eBay. The serving pieces are similar to Meissen or Herend. Hand wash only!

One thing I really liked about the German porcelain houses was their talent in creating interesting shapes. Hutschenreuther, which was one of the largest ones was the forst I'm aware of to hire fashion designers to create patterns and shapes. Back in the 1980's Pierre Cardin had bought the French restaurant Maxim's de Paris and designed dinnerware for production by Hutschenreuther. It was popular with wealthy (sub)urban markets. My favorite was En Vogue, back when pastels were a thing. The serving pieces were innovative in design.

I cannot remember the source of the original quotation, but after returning to Japan (?) an ambassador made comment that all American plates are round.

'Hand Wash" ! If you are buying pre 1980's china be sure to find out if it is "Hand Wash Only". Many china patters from the late 1960s to say 1984 look like they can be put in the dishwasher but they cannot. I had a friend who found this out the hard-way with a china service she bought at a garage sale. She did not do her research, put the china in the dishwasher and lost her investment on top of a beautiful set of dishes.

Happy New Year!

Thank you to the posters in this thread when I truly needed a “happy place” in 2020!

Love and best wishes for the new year to you all.

R385 yeah thats a problem with a bunch of my partners china.

I got me a cheap set of Royal Doulton lookalikes a bit like what R2 got for daily use, I can put it thru the dishwasher and if it loses colours or patterns I'm only out 30 bucks

R381 and R382 fuck those are real nice

OP is right, what the fuck is up with Royal Doulton of late, a lot of their modern stuff looks like shit of late, and they've discontinued a bunch of real pretty patterns. Motherfuckers be dissing some good shit

I’d love to have a service of these... Carolyn pattern by Ralph Lauren. Now discontinued.

Best thread ever.

[quote] “Hand Wash"

For any of the fine china that I use, that is the only way that I will clean them — by hand.

Thanks for reviving this thread.

I ruined my first set of ceramic glazed dinnerware in the dishwasher, too. When I bought more, which I was able to do when I discovered eBay, I only washed them by hand. I live alone, so it's no big deal.

I'm getting old now, and I don't need as many dishes as I used to. I have this nice gay couple I've given some to, and I think I'm going to give them another call soon.

I'm glad r386 resurrected this thread.

R265, was it Villeroy & Boch’s Basket Garden? If yes, I have a full service for 12 with all of the service dishes. You can’t kill that stuff.

R381 it's handsome but would make me dizzy trying to pick up food off that background.

Agreed, best thread ever! And I am awed by how knowledgeable people are on this thread about china, the various patterns, history & uses.

I've never really had (or needed) nice dishes, but I've been tempted to buy a box of old china, though a lot of old dishes look very dull and scratched, even if they are intact and the set is more or less complete. I especially love old Christmas dishes, though that's even more impractical than china

I have several china patterns (breakfast, everyday and dinner service), a silver service and two flatware services

There is no point in buying this stuff if it will just set in a box or cupboard.

Only buy (inheriting is a different matter) this great stuff if you plan on using it and enjoying it.

Big silver services in the Victorian era often involved conspicuous consumption, with special implements for all sorts of items. The fish fork was introduced in the early 19th century. So, "sniffiness" or snobbery about the use thereof involves sneering about parvenus showing off their money . . .

not that my grandmother cared. She didn't own fish knives, but her Francis I set included all sorts of special implements, which I don't think were ever used except on a relish tray. She was very house-proud about that set and collected pieces for years.

R368 Here is a late 18th century asparagus dish you can use your tongs on.

Ralph Lauren’s ‘Duke’ Dinnerware, now discontinued.

Shown with ‘Maddox’ silver plate flatware.

R98 The silverplate is also available in sterling and stainless from Ricci. It was probably made for RL by them as RL didn't own a china or silver manufacturing plant. It looks great!

Thanks R399. You’re probably right about the actual manufacturer of that RL cutlery. RL has all their stuff made by various top grade firms around the world, but it’s often impossible to find out who they are since it’s kept a big secret. Occasionally they are open about it, as when Wedgwood was credited with making much of the RL dinnerware in the early 1990’s.

R399 is gorgeous. I just ordered this, a much more modest and simple pattern. Made in the USA.

[R399], TTQ4Life,

You’re wonderful!

xoxo

The bees are cute 🙂

R401, those are really cute and beautiful. Love that it's made in the U.S. and price is reasonable!

R404, I liked that you can buy sets or open stock, or by the place setting. They also sell basic sets of just one knife, one fork and one spoon, not including the teaspoons and desert forks, which a lot of people don’t use now. So you can add a little at a time if you want.

They also let you buy samples really cheap, they usually send forks. I bought samples of a few different designs, one is Calaveras (skulls) and one called Woodstock which is flowers and peace signs. But when I got them, the Honeybee design was a little bit larger and distinct, the other designs were smaller and if you don’t really pay attention, you might almost think they’re just abstract embossed designs. I could see some guest using Calaveras and not realizing what it was at first. It’s pretty though. They’re all really well made and heavy. There’s a big difference in weight and strength between these and the cheap ones I inherited.

I wanted something that was easily recognizable as a pattern at a glance. It took a couple of days of use before one pattern really stood out as the right one. I recommend to anybody, if you’re looking at flatware designs, to buy a couple of pieces and try using them.

They also have plainer designs, and sell nice steak knives and wood boxes to keep flatware in, if you’re looking for something nice to keep the flatware you already have.

Help me, datalounge.

I am not a TTQ but am expecting a friend for dinner who IS.

I have two choices: Minton "Gloucester" or Johnson Bros "Chelsea Rose".

Which will make me look like I know what I'm doing?

I like the Gloucester better, r406. But what [italic]are[/italic] you doing?

My Mikassa

Ballerina by Universal

I really, REALLY want this.

I'm so overwhelmed by everything coming out of Washington—soon, all state capitals?—that I want to return to this thread...so I can think about something I can control, perhaps...the way dishes look on a table.

I am a dish queen. When I was young, I wrote radio and television commercials for a major department store (before Federated/Macy's took everything over). I loved watching people shop at the store, and when I started, I would spend part of my Saturdays there, just observing. My favorite thing was to watch the salespeople in the china department arrange placesettings for brides and grooms to be.

As a boy, I'd always enjoyed helping my grandmother get ready for Thanksgiving and Christmas. I would polish the silver, wipe down the glassware after she washed it by hand—just the total MARY!!! holiday package.

When it came time for me to buy my own dishes, I got a set of clear tempered glass Italian dinnerware, Oxford, from Bormioli. I liked Italian things and I wanted something inexpensive, as I thought I would be moving cross-country soon.

After the move and a gay divorce, I bought Colorstax from Metlox, in pink; rose, they called it. (More MARY!) I'd never liked white plates as much as colorful ones. What I wanted was Fiesta, but they weren't making it new at the time (early '80s), and I wasn't much of a second-hand shopper.

Most of the Colorstax broke in the dishwasher, and eventually, Fiesta started producing again for Bloomingdale's. I ended up buying the Fiestaware I'd always wanted, in turquoise, my favorite color.

I've given away or sold other sets of more formal dinnerware I acquired over the years. I was never a very formal sort of dish queen, really. Now I have some Colorstax left (enough for 8 or 10) and the turquoise Fiesta for four. I want to give more away. I have a young man who likes the Colorstax I've already given him (I really stocked up when I found eBay in the early 2000s), and I could just call him to come over for some more, but I'm afraid of giving away too much.

I'm kind of depressed, and when I get this way, one of the things I do is get rid of stuff. I get this urge to compress myself into such a small ball, I could put myself in my pocket and just walk away.

I think I'll wait.

I'm not the "I'm so depressed" troll, btw.

Oh, fuck china.

Well, r412, at least it's turquoise.

I think the cream of the crop of plastic dinner ware was Russel Wright's Residential...

More Eva Zeisel...

Back in the '80s, there was an upscale Mexican restaurant in Adams-Morgan (DC) that served on "Amapola" from Villeroy & Boch. It means "poppy."

Can't afford it, but Vernon's Salamina is pretty swell...

If you like that Russel Wright mid-century style, Bauer Pottery is still making it. The guy that bought it also bought the original molds for Bauer pottery, Russel Wright and some tiki pieces. The tiki pieces are really popular, especially in Southern California.

In the picture below, the pieces on the right are Russel Wright. The large pieces on the floor are Bauer Pottery. The beehive (ringware) pieces are Bauer Pottery. The Russel Wright pieces are available both in traditional Russel Wright colors and in Bauer Pottery colors. All made in Southern California. This picture is from the outlet in LA.

Here’s more Bauer Pottery. I have a lot of this. The guy in the hat looks like the owner, Janek. A really nice guy.

The far right shelf, over Janek’s head is more Russel Wright.

R416 Villeroy & Boch was very successful with their restaurant versions of their regular dinnerware patterns back in the 80's! Another pattern that they placed in many restaurants was Basket Garden.

Rockwell Kent for Vernon Kilns...

My favorite thread. I'm an ancientgay, Bronzie's age, I think. I'm considering getting rid of some more dishes, which would leave me with four placesettings. I never entertain anymore, and there's a young person I know who would appreciate receiving these dishes. Still...I can't quite make myself contract that much futher.

Thanks for bumping this R421!

Does anybody love these divided plates as much as I do? Anybody use them? So much cooler than paper plates.

r423 = 403 Forbidden

My partner and I loved having nice dinner parties but since moving to Ft. Lauderdale most acquaintances seem intimidated when they see a formal table setting.

R424, really? Here’s another one. It’s a grill plate.

Upside down smiley face, r426, a l'orange.

Grill plates are so damn heavy. One of my favorite restaurant ware patterns...Millbrook by Syracuse

There’s another restaurant ware pattern by Tepco, Broken Wagon Wheel. They made grill plates too.

Those dishes at R428 are beautiful! They look really sturdy.

Where can I find some?

😬😬

Go to the Restaurant ware subsection of the china category, r430. It's restaurant ware so it has to be sturdy. It's fired differently than other china. I think my favorite Tepco pattern is Confucius...

Jackson china's airport restaurant pattern...

Oops, sorry r430. I mean on eBay.

Is this the Fisting thread? Can someone link to the Fisting thread.

This is my pattern, don't you love it?

I love these designs.

I have my grandmother's Lenox set, a plain cream color with a gold edge. I also have my mother's which is the same, but with a sheaf of wheat in the center , and my set is the Tuxedo pattern, a plain cream set with a cream detailed edge.

For every day, I have Villeroy and Bosch Petite Fleur, V&B French Garden, and Royal Chelsea's Lovelace pattern (black and white with gold trim). My house is a mixture of country French and modern, and these seem to cover all of the occasions. I pull out the ivory sets for special occasions.

I have my mother's and grandmother's Francis 1 sterling sets, and my Christophle Aria pattern, both of which I use everyday. I see no sense in just keeping them in a closet.

You sound fancy, R437.

Can I visit your world sometime? 😛

I wonder whether Greg has contributed to this thread.

Jackson's wonderful palm tree pattern...

On a repeat Antiques Roadshow this week...

I have a full dinner and tea/ coffee set of Villeroy & Boch Acapulco. It's worth a fortune but I use it everyday and run it through the dishwasher. It genuinely lights up my life, although I'm sure some of you will find it gaudy and silly. I've paid very little for it over the years and it's always fun to seek out new pieces and spares from sales and flea markets.

I've included a link but unfortunately there aren't many full sets out there so it's just bits and pieces shown.

I have several Melitta breakfast sets too, my favourite is called Stockholm, with the wildflower pattern. Link in the next post.

Love this thread - you all have some beautiful items!

I hope this link works!

Shadow Leaf by Tepco...

What's the catch of the day?

Venison, anyone?

Love this one...

calling @greg

This is my favorite china for afternoon tea when mother, grand mama, and Auntie Ellen come for tea.

I use this vintage pattern, Gay Gobbler, at Thanksgiving.

R449 again. I was kidding. When mother, granny, and auntie come for tea I use my Royal Swansea Gay Moments set.

You can't go wrong with an ivy pattern...

R452 - That is Franciscan Ivy China and is quite valuable as it was only in production for a few years.

I have 3 generations of family Franciscan Desert Rose myself.

No, r453, it's Metlox/Poppy Trail. This is Franciscan Ivy...

Franciscan Del Mar

*

R442, there was somebody in Instagram a while back who was mixing Acapulco with Fiesta in the coordinating colors. It looked nice.

I posted this Edith Heath documentary upthread, but here it is again...

This restaurant looks scary.

R454 - Sorry! I goy may patterns mixed up,

I think the Ricardo's ivy pattern is Franciscan, r460.

R461 - Maybe. It is hard to tell in a B&W photo but the handles on the cups do not look correct to me.

Look at the creamer and sugar...

I once had a set of Russel Wright Steubenville Gray. Then I realized the crackle pattern was a flaw called "crazing" rather than a design element, and I started buying Fiestaware when it came out again in the late '80s, early '90s.

You don't seem to find the crazing on the Iroquois that you do on the American Modern, r464.

Long thread, if IncaWare was posted earlier, I apologize. Years ago when my husband and I first got married (26 years ago) I became obsessed with "minimalist retro" dishes. IncaWare was the pottery from all the coffee shops and diners of my youth. Film noir and gum-cracking hardscrabble waitresses. "Another cup of java, hon?"

Once in the gold country in CA we walked into junk store and found over 40 of the plates and other cups, serving dishes. Now we have enough pottery to run a Dupars for a week.

R466 - Sometimes simple is the best. Is IncaWare dishwasher safe?

R467 I think IncaWare would survive an atomic blast. Yep.

[quote]Russel...right?

That's wright, r465. One "L".

I never had any Iroquois. I got the Steubenville in the early '80s as a gift, and I didn't know much about it. There was nowhere near the amount of information we have now at our fingertips.

I like Wright's glassware.

I would love to find a set of those, r470. They'd go great with my turquoise Fiestaware.

Russel Wright lamps...

Perhaps you'd prefer the dots, r471...

Russel Wright's spun aluminum...I used to have the ring handled pitcher.

They're nice, r474, but I truly like the ones in r470. They're the perfect color, and I like the atomic design.

There's the glassware that goes with Franciscan's Atomic Starburst...

I found one on Etsy, r470. Thanks a million.

Don't put it in the dishwasher.

I would MARY! this thread......

.....but I had the best pillow ever years ago - a Martha Stewart pillow from Macy's. It was discontinued and I have been weeping for a new one since.

It was a perfect pillow and I haven't found an equivalent since. *sobs*

Oh, no, r478. I wouldn't think of it.

Do you have Daisy with your turquoise, r471?

R464 I feel your pain. The 1940's thru the 60's American china glazes all seem to craze. When you get them wet, it really shows up and that is water seeping into the clay through the glaze. Blue Ridge, which was handpainted ,has this issue too.

Ballerina by Universal was apt to craze.

Dishes and ceramics can craze from heat. Don’t store ceramics in the garage or attic. I wouldn’t run really old dishes in the dishwasher either. They seem to do better in the sink. I’ve had issues with really old dishes in the microwave and I probably wouldn’t do that either.

About Russel Wright, the current owner of Bauer Pottery bought the Bauer Pottery and Russel Wright original molds and makes American Modern in the original colors and some other colors. They are exactly like the old ones, except lead free and the bright colors are brighter and glossier because of the lead free glaze. But they’re still pretty and look exactly as you remember in most colors. Russel Wright was in duller, more mid century jewel tone colors, but you can also get it in brighter colors now. They have their own factory in Southern California, and will make their dishes for you in any color they make.

WTF would Muriel block this?

Jealousy, r485. This fauxlonial stuff is Muriel's china pattern.

Nothin' wrong with Royal's grocery store patterns, r486.

Thought I would bump this thread up as I miss it.

R487 - Love that pattern of the grocery store china.

Royal Doulton "Olympia". I love the cream colour and Greek keys. It's elegant and timeless.

R490. That’s beautiful