"Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker" (2019) is legit the mess that everyone is saying it is.... I am so heartbroken.

Rey and kylo supposedly die when they get the life sucked out of them to give emperor popaspleen back his power. Kylo rises to get thrown off the cliff and supposedly dies. Rey gets up and kills popaspleen and kills herself in the process. Kylo climbs from the cliff to find rey dead and brings her back to life actually killing himself for the third time in the process. Just messy.

Children's movie

O fuck I was expecting Citizen Kane!

There is already a thread on this OP. Couldn't you have done a search? Some people are so damn selfish. If you continue to post duplicate threads you will be reported. Have a great day!

r4 this is us discussing our opinions on the film, not what critics are saying.

Stop giving this goddamn company money. Why is it that around the time I became an adult, they started dumbing down the qualifications for adulthood itself?

My husband saw it with his brother last night. He said he wishes it were just bad.

We are witnessing the death of movies, and I thought I'd be a lot sadder about it than I am.

OP, John Boyega and Oscar Isaac both wanted Finn and Poe to be together in this one, so JJ wrote that into the script but Disney said no. That is why at first they are inseparable, and flirting and bickering like a couple, then suddenly that disappears half way through the movie. Disney told them they couldn't make them gay and "feared" what making them gay would do with the fandom.

Who cares who gets featured, or who hooks up with who, more fundamental questions abound, like:

How did the Emperor survive being thrown down a deep shaft, and then being atomized during an explosion of an object nearly the size of a small planet?

R10, don't think too hard!

When did "magic" become shorthand for "lazy storytelling"?

[quote]OP, John Boyega and Oscar Isaac both wanted Finn and Poe to be together in this one, so JJ wrote that into the script but Disney said no. That is why at first they are inseparable, and flirting and bickering like a couple, then suddenly that disappears half way through the movie. Disney told them they couldn't make them gay and "feared" what making them gay would do with the fandom.

Then Disney is dead to me and should be dead to the rest of the world because not only are they just as homophobic as ever, if not more so, they are actively involved in gay erasure.

If you won't include gays without also pushing trans propaganda, then you are a homophobe and a sexist. If you try to str8splain or transsplain away your sexism and homophobia with word salad designed to call it something else and/or by projecting it onto gays and feminists to make us look like the instigators of the bigotry we receive on a daily basis because of you, then you double the homophobia and sexism.

How did Emperor Palpation's children fall so low to descend into drunken nobodys and junk traders on a desert planet? Didn't the go to Elite schools in the Empire?

Why didn't Kylo Ren tell her when he said he saw her family?

[quote]Have a great day!

Eat the bird, bitch!

Emperor Palpy had children?! But he's the queeniest Queen who ever Emperored!!

R12 the issue is that Star Wars has a built in fan base for 40 years. They don’t wanna upset them and hurt their money. It’s all about money.

Some places wouldn’t even show the movie if gays are in it, like China or Russia.

"hated it"

I hope it’s good enough for my sweet, nerdy niece. She’s nine. I’m taking her this weekend.

Most of the Star Wars movies have been a mess. Why did we think this one would be different?

By the film's end, I got the feeling that nothing really mattered, and that was intentional. Abrams and co never genuinely seemed invested in the story they were telling. In a profound act of cowardice and desperation, they resurrected Palpatine without even bothering to explain it in any clear way. Just a quick, "Palpatine's back, everyone! Just as an FYI!" from Poe and that's that. Reminded me a lot of the Voldemort's back hoopla from Order of the Phoenix.

The thing is though... even if I had received an explanation for this, or the myriad of other dangling questions the film leaves unanswered, I know for a fact that it wouldn't strengthen my relationship with the film because across three movies I don't think any of the filmmakers have had a clear understanding of the story they even want to tell. I don't know who any of these new characters are, or what they want, or what they're thinking beyond boring generalities. The trilogy-long question about Rey's parentage robbed her of any crucial character building she could have sorely used. Most of the main characters (I'm talking even Poe and Finn) are sidelined, and new characters don't even stand a chance. The film speed-runs through a poorly thought out story, and it ultimately doesn't care because as long as it does Star Wars things to the audience, that's all that matters.

And that's a lot of the film. It's just being Star Wars at you. There's no real specificity to the story or the characters... every person and plot point is meant to reflect and remind you of the previous trilogy to such an obviously cynical extent. I don't envy John Williams, who's tasked with musically harmonizing an inherently discordant narrative, and just hopes that enough brass flourishes and chanting choirs will fill in the emotional gaps Abrams and Terrio have no interest in filling.

But like I said... none of this matters. Because at the end of the day there are light sabers, and force lightening, and every ship that's ever flown in the galaxy shows up for the CGI showdown, and the discerning viewer's left with the notion that all those in charge just sighed a collective, "Fuck it," rolled the cameras, slapped the footage together, and shoved it into theaters to rid their hands of it.

But honestly... like... it doesn't matter. This is the least consequential cinematic event of the year for me. Just a glossy ball of nothing. Glad people seemed to have a "fun time" though.

Is it any wonder they apparently shot multiple different endings, and had reshoots until Oct of this year?

Yeah, I always felt there was something strangely sexual about the way he was with Anakin in the prequels. Like an older top teaching his younger, twink bottom. I reconcile that he may have created his son in a lab, the kid rebelled and ran away to protect his kid, Rey, and then was caught and killed. A far more interesting story than the one we got in the Sequel trilogy.

Worst episode ever! Rest assured I was on the internet within minutes registering my disgust throughout the world.

Disney cut [italic]Bedknobs and Broomsticks[/italic] back down to two hours on Blu-ray and Disney+ in addition to taking away the 139-minute uncut-ish version from the services that already had it, yet this movie is more or less the same length as that restored cut and people STILL think it's too short to tell a cohesive story? The cognitive dissonance on display from this company is astonishing.

[quote] Emperor Palpy had children?! But he's the queeniest Queen who ever Emperored!!

That was the same mentality that gave us [italic]Lion King II[/italic]. They gave Scar his own pride just so people would stop calling him gay. Meanwhile, Princess Elsa is still frozen into asexuality because of "there are other types of love besides romance," which is basically just another way of saying hetero or nothing.

[quote]Worst episode ever! Rest assured I was on the internet within minutes registering my disgust throughout the world.

That whole scene exposed the [italic]Simpsons[/italic] writers' sense of entitlement to unquestioning loyalty from fans, especially the totally out-of-character "you owe them" non-response from Bart that was as badly written as anything on TGIF.

R23 why do you sound so familiar.......?

I am about to see this now. Left work early to see it.

Considering the characters on that show were shilling for Butterfinger candy bars from day one, they're ones to talk.

I loved Boba Flick

So is this Jar Jar Binks of Star Wars movies?

Can people leave Binks alone? He was far from the worst thing about the prequels.

[quote]Can people leave Binks alone?

Do you still think Santa is real, too?

He wasn’t the worst thing about those movies b

R29 I think you mean Babu Frik. Loved him (or her as it's voiced by Shirley Henderson)! I was not feeling the movie at first but decided to not be an uptight bitch and just go with it. I loved it. There were some ridiculous plotholes but it is, after all, a children's movie and also a soap opera. I saw it in a sold-out theatre in LA last night and the crowd loved it. Not a fan of either but worth note, Ed Sheeran and Harry Styles were the duped Stormtroopers in a funny scene.

Star Wars isn’t a kids movie.

R35 George Lucas has said on more than one occasion "Star Wars is for 12-year olds".

Keri Russell is huge star? When the fuck did this happen?!

R38 She isn't but she is friends with JJ Abrams and that guy lives for giving family and friends work in his movies or using his connections to get them jobs, such as his son, who isn't even out of teens, was able to write a spiderman comic despite having no experience in writing before. Hollywood loves to pat itself on the back for being inclusive but only if you are related to someone who is already in the industry.

Everyone knows who Russell is.

[quote] Why give Keri Russell so little to do? Why cast [bold]a huge star like her[/bold]

BWAH HA HAHAHAHA HA HAHAHA HAHA HAHAHA HAHAHAHA!!!

(wipes tear away) No, seriously...

people were throwing stuff at the screen and cussin it out....wild

R38 not huge, but I feel like The Americans put her back on the map.

She’s done well for herself. And she’s very pretty!

abrams should go bak to making commercials

yeah, I heard on CNBC that it was shite.

It's absolute genius how they make a two hour toy commercial and con YOU into paying THEM thirty bucks to sit through it.

there's no need for Keri Russell bashing, seriously...

I am so sick of Star Wars merch. who the fuck needs another shitty tshirt?

[quote] It's absolute genius how they make a two hour toy commercial and con YOU into paying THEM thirty bucks to sit through it.

Ah got m'fence painted that w'y, R47. I reckon if it worked fer me, it'll work fer them.

I'm curious. Those trashing this film..... Do you like the prequels? Because, polt holes and unanswered questions aside, I thought this latest was, at worst, fun and maybe disjointed. But I find the prequels unwatchable. In fact, two of the prequels are only good for mocking, like Mommie Dearest. So, if you didn't like the prequels... And you don't like these sequels... And you didn't like Rogue One... Or Solo... Or Return of the Jedi..... What the fuck are you so upset about?

I'm in the minority, but I thought Revenge of the Sith was a pretty good movie. Especially the second half.

R52 that one is decent but episode 1 and 2 fucking suck.

OP = Keri Russell.

I was a kid when the Phantom Menace came out so I can't look at the prequels as objectively as maybe others can however despite the poor dialogue, characterisation and direction, Lucas had some great story ideas and world building, which was always his strong point. Where as the sequel trilogy is still relatively weak in those areas plus on top of that it feels like an empty universe. The og trilogy dealt with the rise of Luke Skywalker, the return of the jedi and the fall of the Emperor and his empire, the prequels dealt with the fall of Anakin, fall of the jedi, the rise of the Emperor and the failure of democracy allowing him to create the Empire. The sequel trilogy does what? Return of the jedi (again?), the rise of another Skywalker (who is then killed off 5 minutes after his redemption) , kill off the three original main characters with pathetic deaths and no payoff, resurrects the Emperor because they hadn't created an interesting villain and then returns Luke's and Leia's lightsabres to a planet that they associate with slavery, the Hutts and the death of Luke's aunt and uncle.

JJ Abrams never finishes anything he starts. Can you imagine if he and Ryan Murphy worked together? (Although, both of their heads wouldn't fit in the same room.)

[quote]Stop giving this goddamn company money. Why is it that around the time I became an adult, they started dumbing down the qualifications for adulthood itself?

People like you are so fucking boring. List the top ten things you enjoy. This should be entertaining.

[quote]people were throwing stuff at the screen '

Like what, pocket protectors?

It has its moments but overall is shit. One of the worst.

'The Mandalorian' Actor Calls 'The Rise of Skywalker' 'Hands Down the Worst Star Wars Movie' and 'An Absolute F***ing Failure'

As someone who virtually knows nothing about SW beyond character names, what distinguishes bad from good? Are these movies remakes of old ones?

R60, don't waste your time. Do something more productive with your time. Shit movie!

R59 I didn't enjoy Rise of Skywalker and I have to say for the most part the Mandalorian has been pretty enjoyable but the weakest part so far was Jake's acting, so he should be grateful nepotism got him far enough to get a job on the show and shouldn't burn bridges with Lucasfilm.

Hahaha, R59, wait, Jake Cannavale son of Bobby?! If he's in The Mandalorian, I've now got incentive to catch up, but him shitting on TROS gives me strength!

[quote]I'm curious. Those trashing this film..... Do you like the prequels? Because, polt holes and unanswered questions aside, I thought this latest was, at worst, fun and maybe disjointed. But I find the prequels unwatchable. In fact, two of the prequels are only good for mocking, like Mommie Dearest. So, if you didn't like the prequels... And you don't like these sequels... And you didn't like Rogue One... Or Solo... Or Return of the Jedi..... What the fuck are you so upset about?

Do I like the prequels? That's a loaded question. Honestly, every Star Wars movie past Empire Strikes Back has issues. The prequels, aside from Lucas' tinkering with the original trilogy, solidified our understanding of what a "bad" Star Wars movie is, but in retrospect they boast things to be admired, and that admiration comes into sharper relief when compared to the sequel trilogy. The prequels are strong in that there's one clear creative vision that ties the three films together... the vision's not always successful, and Lucas has seriously failings as a director, but there is a relatively clear narrative thread that binds the prequels together in ways the sequel trilogy just isn't.

Disney had no fucking plan with this set of films and it shows. The Rise of the Skywalker is basically sweating the moment the opening crawl starts. Abrams has packed the script with so much busywork and he creates problems for himself that he's ultimately disinterested in solving. It's almost pathological at this point... there's a psychological defect in the way the man tells stories. He's completely lost at sea, and so he relies on Return of the Jedi, just as he did A New Hope, to tell this story, and it ends up being a bag of shoddily executed tropes that hopes it'll get away with it if it wanks off enough nostalgia at the audience while John Williams does ALL of the emotional heavy lifting, god bless that man.

For all the faults of The Last Jedi, Rian Johnson at least attempted to expand the universe and our understanding of these characters. You don't have to like his decisions. I find a few of them questionable myself, but the man took a risk, which is something Abrams is clearly incapable of doing, and this film suffers for it.

But I can't place all the blame on Rise of the Skywalker, which was burdened with an impossible task from the outset. The problems with this trilogy were baked into the beginning. There was no plan, and no oversight to guide the narrative when a problem arose. The creatives and suits made decisions out of stupidity and greed, and so we ended up with whatever the last four years was about.

And even then, I feel uncomfortable laying it all at Kennedy and co.'s feet, because I honestly think this is a problem with all of us. We've all loved this thing to death, like Lennie and the fucking rabbits in Of Mice and Men. George Lucas created this special thing, became overly obsessed with it, and then the fans took it from him, and then fucked it up themselves. It's somehow both hilarious and depressing that this is what we got in the long run. Just... fucking nothing.

Where does Abrams say he wrote for a gay couple in this movie?

The pointy faced British woman who also showed up in the first film... and has literally ONE scene in this film so that you even know who she is when she kisses a woman in the film's finale.

I honestly, like... I'm trying to take a Mr. Rogers-like meditative stance in regards to Star Wars. I won't let it get to me... I won't give Disney that power. They're just movies. Whatever. But like, that kiss was bullshit, and everyone knows it. It's this cynical, checklist-like, fear-driven studio bullshit that makes me wish they had never included it at all. It's just... nothing. They're not genuine characters in the film... there extras. Emotionally, it means fucking NOTHING. That's the biggest issue with it... it's that these two characters aren't characters... they're fucking no one, so who cares if they fucking kiss? We supposed to give representative credit to Disney for that? Fuck that shit. That's like pointing to a Latino extra in the background of your film and claiming it as diversity. FUCK THAT NOISE.

But honestly like... we as audience members, we're better than what Disney's giving us. We gotta respect ourselves out there.

Where did Abrams state that he wrote Poe and Finn as a gay couple?

Oh, I thought you were talking about the gay kiss at the end of the film.

The Poe and Finn shipping that... somehow turned into a serious thing(?) was always ridiculous. What people were picking up on was an obvious chemistry between Oscar and John. Those characters, at least in that film, just worked together. I understand where the desire to make them a couple comes from, but I actually fucking hate all that Tumblr bullshit. It infected the Sherlock fandom. Suddenly the friendship with charming romantic undertones is interpreted as homosexual desire, and if not, a demand for the storytellers to turn it into homosexual desire, thereby ruining what made the relationship unique in the first place.

I doubt Abrams ever had that in mind when writing those characters. That's just one of the many manias generated from the fandom.

R67, did you not read R9 's assertion?

[quote]OP, John Boyega and Oscar Isaac both wanted Finn and Poe to be together in this one, so JJ wrote that into the script but Disney said no. That is why at first they are inseparable, and flirting and bickering like a couple, then suddenly that disappears half way through the movie. Disney told them they couldn't make them gay and "feared" what making them gay would do with the fandom.

He claims JJ wrote it that way!

Hahah, no I didn't, but that sounds like a rumor that would have started on Tumblr, which ultimately supports everything I said about the fandom. I'd love to see a source on that if true, though I doubt one will be provided.

Who is still checking for Star Wars in 2019???

A large section of the globe.

Boyega and Isaac wanted the gay couple storyline. JJ was down but Disney shut that down. I don’t think it was ever written.

None of the Star Wars movies are watchable. The success of this tripe is beyond comprehension.

[quote]OP, John Boyega and Oscar Isaac both wanted Finn and Poe to be together in this one, so JJ wrote that into the script but Disney said no. That is why at first they are inseparable, and flirting and bickering like a couple, then suddenly that disappears half way through the movie. Disney told them they couldn't make them gay and "feared" what making them gay would do with the fandom.

Disney was never going to make them a couple and Abrams would never put something so overt in his script knowing it would just get cut anyway. If you wanna fanfic that Poe and Finn were bfs, have at it; Harry Potter fans did that with Remus and Sirius and there was arguably a great deal more in those HP books than anything in the SW movies where you could fanwave into believing that.

But no, Finn and Poe were never gonna be a thing. It’s just gaybaiting to get fangirls excited.

Ultimately, what was the point of Finn and Poe? We’re told they, Rey and Chewie have some kind of bond, but we never feel that (the way we do with Rey and Ben) or the way we did with Luke, Leia and Han. In the end, we don’t really learn any more about them than we knew when they were introduced.

There's no way that queen Palpatine had kids. She wanted anikins young jedi cock, that's why he killed that bitch Natalie to have him all to himself.

I'm so out-of-the-loop. I thought the guys from GoT were writing Star Wars.

This article speaks about how Isaac wished for Poe and Finn to be gay but he has “no control”. He also says that people have “fear”.

Another article mentions Disney had “fear” but I can’t find that one. Trying to

The GOT guys were given their own SW spinoff property to develop, possibly a trilogy. However that deal was cancelled back around May or June. No reason given.

R31 He was made for kids as well, Inwas 6 when phantom came out and thought he was hilarious.

[quote]In the end, we don’t really learn any more about them than we knew when they were introduced.

That's the major problem with the entire film. The characters, such as they are, largely work because of the actors alone. They're not written all that well because Abrams didn't craft them as characters... he crafted them as archetypes, and he quite literally turned the nature of his protagonist into a mystery box, and so a question drives her, and the audience, to an answer that is so utterly goofy that it pretty much renders this whole journey pointless. They started with no plan and we're seeing the results.

I meant to say it's the major problem with the entire trilogy.

I've managed to resist watching even one minute of this "franchise" since 1977. Proudly.

Interesting point about the villain element, r81. We saw Darth Vader in the first five minutes of Star Wars and he was a major player in the entire original trilogy.

r83 that's not surprising. You're of my parents' generation i.e. people who were already adults when the first Star Wars came out. Star Wars was never a thing with your generation at all.

A friend on FB is a star wars fan and he saw the film and said it was "great!"

Bs on oscar and boyega wanting to play gays, it's just lip service for the fraus and fan gurls that ship them. If they wanted to play gay they could, nothing is stopping them.

R87 bullshit, they are actors not producers or writers. Actors do what they are told and a majority of the time dont make creative decisions.

R88 No sweety I mean they could play a gay role outside of star wars, If they wanted to play gay.

R87 they can’t play in a film where the studio says no.

Saw it in 3D yesterday and while it looked good it just didn’t resonate with me like the first three. Complicated, clunky storytelling In which you need a flow chart to understand, and even if you figured it all out it doesn’t matter anyway.

It only seemed complicated; actually it was quite simple. Palpatine is back. (Never mind how). He’s hiding on an unknown planet. He has a whole fleet of planet killers (who pays for this shit?). We need a gizmo to find the planet. Let’s find the gizmo and go kill him. Maybe an army will materialize out of thin air to help us. Oh, look—it did! Hooray!

Just came back from seeing it, and it really is as bad as they are saying. Visually the effects are good, the acting is ... well it is Star Wars - not a lot of heavy lifting. The plot was ridiculous.

"That is why at first they are inseparable, and flirting and bickering like a couple, then suddenly that disappears half way through the movie. Disney told them they couldn't make them gay"

Films aren't shot in the chronological order of the script. I doubt Disney came in halfway through and told them, "Stop the flirting abd bickering NOW!* More Star Wars fanfiction.

I'm so out-of-the-loop. I thought the guys from GoT were writing Star Wars.

Somehow that fell through, which is too bad since it would've been interesting to see where they'd take SW

Even after the last season of GoT, R95? I think they are one trick ponies.

Even after the last season of GoT, [R95]? I think they are one trick ponies.

Well, possibly - though it's clear that no one at Disney has any new ideas either....

Star Wars ended very much like Game of Thrones did... so perhaps Benioff and Weiss are perfect for what Disney's going for. Doesn't matter anyway. They've successfully managed to make none of this matter. Congrats. Hope the 4 billion was worth it.

Isn't there supposed to be a new trilogy? It's going to have all-new characters, iirc.

R93 the acting was a lot better than anything the prequels had in it. Holy shit those have the most stilted and awkward acting I've ever seen. This one made me like Rey more than I did before, especially compared to TLJ.

With this trilogy, it just seemed like they were making it up as they went along and had no idea WTF they were doing.

The most awkward scenes were ones with Leia. How did they do those?

They used scenes they filmed for the previous two movies that weren’t used and included them here.

That wasn’t actually her when she died.

r102 it was unused footage from the other two movies.

So that's why those scenes were odd. Was the footage of Ridley newer though? Their conversations came off strange. Like they were piecing the unused stuff with Rey's new more relevant to the current movie dialogue.

Yeah, the scenes with Leia was so fucking strange. I've heard of people crying when she showed up, and I would have loved to have felt that, but Rey's lines were written essentially as prompts to trigger footage that they already had of Carrie from four years ago. Unfortunately their conversations came off as stilted emptiness.

I am still pissed at Carrie Fisher for this. They had a huge arc for her in this one and had to rewrite the entire movie because of her death.

I don't know why they planned a huge role for Carrie Fisher in the first place. Would you write a movie around a person who was a well-known drug addict and had serious mental issues? It seemed pretty short-sighted and unfortunately that turned out to be the case.

George put a curse on the franchise before he sold it.

But what about Dominic Monaghan's disfiguring Botox?

Don't forget to take our poll.

Dominic's presence in the film was so strange. The presence of all of Abrams' alums was distracting. Felt super indulgent... like Abrams inserting himself into the universe. Whatever... fuck this film.

Face it, Star Wars was ovah with Revenge of the Sith.

I hope that the next trilogy addresses the economic problems in the Star Wars universe. I've always gotten a kick out of this article.

Not to mention palpatines collection of 6 inch heels must not come cheap.

that ridley gal would be a bartender in a lez bar unless abrams dint like her so huh.....

I just saw it tonight. It was really predictable in so many places. It was just thrown together with rehashes of bits and pieces of previous movies. Old dead characters come back for a cameo. Ugh.

I’ll stick with the Mandalorian.

Was it even worse than The Last Jedi?

I waited 2 years to see the TLJ. Borrowed the DVD from the Library for free. I guess I can wait another two years to see this mess.

r117 how old are you that you don't know how to watch shit for free on the internet?

I told Hollywood once. I told them twice. I will tell them again. Never ever hire former Lost creators/ directors or writers. ...

I never watched them How are Abrams Star Trek movies ?

R119 They're shit, as you'd expect.

R119 the first movie was fine. Can't say the same for the others.

I watched the movie on Wednesday at 10 in the morning with hardcore SW fans who were super excited at the beginning. People clapped when Lando showed up which was nice. And then it got quieter and quieter until Rey and Ben kissed. Huge laughter at the cinema. When the movie ended, no clapping, nothing, just disappointment. I did not have high hopes for the movie, but I did not expect this disaster.

Chewie is dead, oh wait, no, he is not. They could have done more with that storyline, Rey kills Chewie, there is potential there. Nope, got resolved within minutes. Same with Poe's friend. She died on that planet. And now she is back, all is good. Why even show Rose if you only give her only 3 lines? Might as well say that she died on the way back to her home planet and be done with it.

I feel like JJ basically gave the fans what they wanted and loudly complained about online for the last two years. That's a huge mistake IMO. Give the fans what they need, not what they want.

Its a piece of crap of which every copy should be burned in memory of Jar binks...

The Rey and Ben/Kylo relationship was the most interesting part of TLJ (which I liked, apart from certain disastrous sequences), so I didn’t find the kiss laughable. The idea of them being twinned or mirror versions of each other is intriguing, but I can’t help but wonder how much better the movies would be if there had been some definite plot elements worked out in advance.

I mean, Palpatine having kids? You can’t just pull that out of thin air, especially not after the coded sexual element of Anakin surrendering to Palpatine in ROTS.

The thing that drove me nuts was that Rey didn’t acknowledge Ben dying for her in any way, or even grieve him a tiny bit. After their intense connection and his sacrifice, you’d think she would say something.

If television can have success by broadcasting a collection of cat videos, maybe Star Wars should just splice old light saber and blasting into space vision and the save the expense and trouble of telling a story.

Why are Star Wars so obsessed, that they will watch and pay for anything?

I get it was an important film to them as a 10 year old kid seeing it when it first came out, but seriously.

You can love Batman when it first came out at 10, and maybe buy some of the merchandise, but you don't have to keep watching and buy anything related to Batman thereafter.

Move on people!

Why is Star Wars acting so notoriously bad?

I know they don't have much to work with, but surely you could get some solid actors in.

Maybe Star Wars needs to go noirish, and maybe do something that is taut like Hunt for the Red October.

It's time for the "Rey was AMAZING in every scene!" queen to pop up again.

Disney shill.

What could have been.

R129 save it for tumblr 🙄

[quote] Why are Star Wars [fans] so obsessed, that they will watch and pay for anything?

Almost anything

The spinoffs (Rogue One, Solo) are better than the sequels.

I hate John Boyega as Finn and was praying the character would die. Oscar Isaac has charisma for days and that carried him through. This was the first film I really cared about Daisy Ridley.

But yes, the lack of a framework for the trilogy is a serious problem, and a baffling one at a company like Disney. If Marvel can keep a thread going across 20ish films, why can't Disney do it for three?

"REY!!!!!!!!"

Why do you hate Boyega? He is fine and seems very nice.

SOLO was a flop and its star was not attractive.

Solo was great but no one wanted to see someone else play Solo. That’s a fact.

R135 the character is annoying and he plays him like an excited puppy. I'm told he's good in other shit, but definitely the weakest link in the new Big Three.

[quote]Solo was great but no one wanted to see someone else play Solo. That’s a fact.

Solo was terrible and would have done as poorly if they could have cloned a younger version of Ford to play the part.

I love Boyega and blame the script and director. How did no one notice his character kept running, stopping, and shouting either, "Rey!" or "Poe!" through the whole fucking movie? And when--Spoiler--Rey uses the force to push him away, I was relieved. Bitch, she's fighting for her life; you don't shout her name at a moment like that, when she could be cut down in a second. Fucking stupid.

They had no idea what to do with their characters from the start! I'm telling you, what we just watched for the last four years worked primarily because of the actors' charisma. Kylo's perhaps the most well conceived new character, but rarely was the writing elegant on the whole.

[quote]If Marvel can keep a thread going across 20ish films, why can't Disney do it for three?

It's clear that Marvel and Lucasfilm are operating as separate entities under the Disney umbrella, because none of Feige's surprisingly elegant future-planning was present in Kennedy's intergalactic experiment. I wonder if she ever asked for advice, whether it was ever offered, or if any sort of strategy was discussed by any of these creative millionaires. There's no way they can look at what they've built over the past four years and feel accomplished from an artistic perspective. Financially, sure, it's a no brainer, but as storytellers I'd be fucking ashamed.

Also, they've somehow managed to divide the fans further than Lucas did with the prequels because, at least for a time, everyone was relatively unified in their dislike for them. Now, there's just nothing but conflict and controversy left in the franchise, and honestly, it's probably what we deserved all along.

Who cares if people are unified or not? Why cant people have their own opinion? Star Wars fandom is toxic but I guess most fandoms are.

[quote]Dominic's presence in the film was so strange. The presence of all of Abrams' alums was distracting. Felt super indulgent... like Abrams inserting himself into the universe. Whatever... fuck this film.

Ugh. Who else shows up? Why would they let Abrams get away with such obvious shit? I mean, if Abrams walked into your office as a producer on this and said, "Hey, I'm going to put a bunch of mid-level or lower actors from my former tv shows in this movie, okay?", is there anyone here who wouldn't have told him to go screw himself?

No r144. They wanted him back badly after the debacle with TLJ

JJ even forced back in his old school friend Greg Gunberg, or however you spell his name, JJ loves nothing more than nepotism and favouritism. The guy is terrified of being disliked by anyone, I mean he nearly shit a brick when Evangeline Lilly complained about the way she was treated on Lost.

I hope he leaves both Star Wars and Star Trek forever. Maybe he can go back to making one good season of a television show before shitting out two more bad ones and then leaving it to die a slow death under someone else's guidance.

When I saw that fat fuck GG in TFA, it totally took me out of the movie.

"Appearance from FoJJ," I thought.

My experience... The Rey/Ben kiss led to a collective and pretty loud groan in the theater. The crowd was silent and somber when the house lights came on. My boyfriend and I looked at each other, shook our heads in disbelief and went on our way.

[quote]The Rey/Ben kiss led to a collective and pretty loud groan in the theater

In my theater it was met with some squeals from girls, and a spattering of applause. The guy next to me was discussing it with his friend when it happened that it came out of nowhere.

There was a lot of applause when Leia comes onscreen and the appearance of Han but absolutely no response to Luke.

My theater applauded when Lando shows up, when Leia shows up, when we see Han... Luke got NO LOVE V

Just saw the Star Wars Finale.

I thought it was fine. I’m not that emotionally connected to the characters or even the whole Star Wars saga but I thought the movie kept me interested throughout. Sure there seemed like a lot of plot, but overall I didn’t mind

The Ray/Ben kiss wa so stupid. I never thought their connection was ever sexual

There was one lesbian kiss—at the very end when everyone was kissing each other for surviving the war

The appearance of Han is what shocked me most. There had been no word ahead of the movie's release that Harrison Ford was going to be in it, even briefly, so that took me totally by surprise. But a nice surprise it was.

I wonder what the script looked like before Carrie died.

[quote]I wonder what the script looked like before Carrie died.

There wasn't one...that's part of the problem.

[Quote] Star Wars fandom is toxic but I guess most fandoms are.

Yes they are. Ignorance is bliss.

R156 there was no script but there was a story treatment that Colin T. wrote before Carries passing, but this treatment also still had Like alive as Colin was trying to convince Kennedy it was a bad idea to kill Luke in the middle chapter of the trilogy.

Killing off Han in the first film was a disastrous decision. That old grump Harrison Ford was actually willing to do all three movies! A fucking miracle and they threw it away.

It’s mind boggling that the writers seemingly had no cohesive storyline in mind from one film to the next. That would earn a failing grade in any community college writing course. The contempt for the audience leaps out

"But it's JJ Abrams!!! LOST!!!!"

"DISNEY! MARVEL!!! ANYTHING they produce is GOLD!!!!"

Han was fun to see but not with his botoxed, puffy cheeks

[quote]Han was fun to see but not with his botoxed, puffy cheeks

I was trying to discern if they CGI'd Ford as well as Fisher because he looked weird.

[quote][R156] there was no script but there was a story treatment that Colin T. wrote before Carries passing, but this treatment also still had Like alive as Colin was trying to convince Kennedy it was a bad idea to kill Luke in the middle chapter of the trilogy.

Yes, and they also claim that Palpatine was intended as the big bad from the beginning. They don't seem to be able to stop retconning.

[quote]The WSJ confirms what we kind of already knew: Lucasfilm considered rehiring The Last Jedi filmmaker Rian Johnson to direct Star Wars 9...

As for their being a serious treatment

[quote]A new report in the Wall Street Journal sheds a bit of light on the ordeal, noting that Trevorrow successfully pitched his idea for Star Wars 9 to Kennedy, Disney president Alan Horn, and Disney CEO Bob Iger when he was hired. But the WSJ says that once Trevorrow and his frequent collaborator Derek Connolly got to work on the script, Kennedy was unhappy with the drafts he was submitting. Lucasfilm hired Harry Potter and the Cursed Child writer Jack Thorne to take a stab at Episode IX in 2017, but both Kennedy and Trevorrow were unhappy with how that draft turned out as well...After the Thorne draft, Trevorrow reportedly wanted to take another stab at the script himself, but instead Kennedy decided to fire Trevorrow and move on.

[Quote] Killing off Han in the first film was a disastrous decision. That old grump Harrison Ford was actually willing to do all three movies! A fucking miracle and they threw it away.

That actually surprises me. Bet it would have cost a pretty penny.

I've never read that Ford was willing to do all 3.

What’s worse, r1, is that Rey can’t attack Palpatine because it will turn her into a Sith. Except when she wants to attack him with help from Kylo-Ben.

The problem, r20, is that there were just too many damn characters to do anything meaningful with.

It should have just focused on two or three characters, or set the friends on two, different missions like STAR WARS usually does. But SKYWALKER kept the core band together through nearly all of it, and you don’t need 8 people talking to do one mission. In fact, the fewer people, the more tense.

I felt an AVENGERS-like desire to give every character in the history of the franchise a nod and a curtain call. But there simply isn’t time for them all for us to care about.

At least in THE AVENGERS, each character has a unique power that comes to bear on Thanos & Co. and you watch them cooperate athletically in the battles.

Her three-part documentary on the Regency Era is worth watching.

^^Whoops, wrong thread! Never mind.

Another problem is the recycled plotting. It’s always “We need to blow up the Death Star” with little explanation why anyone but clones would fight for the Sith.

Abrams did this to STAR TREK, too. The last 3 STAR TREK films have basically just been the WRATH OF KHAN in different colors.

Go back to science fiction and do a different theme. At least a different technical objective, please!

That was the main objection with Star Trek, they didn't do any new stories, just re-hashes of stories from the original Trek.

Dear r51,

I like REVENGE OF THE SITH but hated PHANTOM MENACE and nearly fell asleep at CLONES. The other movies were good until now.

RISE OF SKYWALKER is too big, too familiar and ramping up powers too pornographically.

You’re not in the minority, r52.

ROTS got mostly positive reviews and wasn’t as hated/uneventful/ cheesey as Episodes 1&2.

[quote] Are these movies remakes of old ones?

Yup.

Dear r95,

The GOT producers DID NOT WRITE GOT.

Benioff wrote the Brad Pitt TROY, which was garbage based on source material that wasn’t his, either. Benioff and Weiss are widely blamed for a lame conclusion to GOT.

So nothing they do is “interesting” unless they happen upon good writers, who can’t be rushed.

No, R141.

Kennedy and Abrams told the media there was no vision for a movie beyond FORCE AWAKENS; that Abrams was just setting up a trilogy for other directors to flesh out.

Kennedy was able to get Abrams back later.

No, R144.

Directors working with the same actors again and again on different projects is quite common in Hollywood. In fact, it’s the norm.

He could have written actual characters for them. With nothing to justify their presence, it honestly just feels like Abrams putting his people in this movie. People clapped when Dominic Monaghan appeared on screen, and I thought how stupid... how fucking primal... how fucking pavlovian... they clapped because they all watched The Lord of the Rings a decade ago. They clapped because they fucking recognized him. They had no emotional connection to the character... did he even get a name? Yet applause.

That's the type of no-thought bullshit that keeps films like this afloat. People will clap at any old fucking thing if it's goddamn familiar.

Thanks for explaining Dominic Monaghan. I've never seen the LOTR movies, and I wondered why this seemingly random guy got such screen time. I couldn't place who he was.

Yeah, Dominic was also in Lost, which explains the Abrams connection. He's just been in some meaningful pop cultural artifacts, so shoving him in this film creates an emotional shorthand that Abrams is too lazy to genuinely build.

The kiss was not meant to be romantic and that is not how I interpreted it. These two had a bond from the get go but it was that they were very much alike. I think Rey kissed Ben because he saved her, nothing more. His humanity was restored and the kiss was a very human thing for her to do. He brought her back from the dead which no Jedi or Sith had ever done before and in doing so, his was ended. It was the thing that Anakin wished for and in the end, could not achieve because he lost what made him human. The promise of cheating death was what Palpatine seduced Anakin with. I found it quite a beautiful ending to a long saga that all began with one man's fear and anothers embracing of that same fear.

Ridley and Boyega make my skin crawl.....weird casting in this flopster.

They begged Boyega to wear deodorant as he smelllllssss…. but to be a meany he wont.

BITCH STINKS

I think the kiss was meant to be romantic as Rey and Ben clearly had a major connection in TLJ. Rey also told Ben she’d wanted to take his hand. Maybe the execution was different because Ben knew he was dying or maybe it’s just that the actors lost their chemistry, but it’s the only time we ever see Ben/Kylo smile. It’s joy and maybe relief on his face.

R182 of course it was meant to be romantic. In this ridiculous movie Palps considered both of them as one being. And the previous movies hinted at a romantic connection. At least they weren't actually brother and sister like in the heavily incestuous A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back.

If you have to explain it and justify it, R185, it failed.

They really need to replace Kathleen Kennedy before they start the next trilogy.

I just want the Obi-Wan series to be good, I don't care about the movies anymore.

[quote]They really need to replace Kathleen Kennedy before they start the next trilogy.

There were rumors that after the failure to meet expectations, Disney is dropping the "trilogy" format in favor of something more like the Marvel format with "phases" that culminate in some big ensemble movie.

Those rumors were likely a result of Disney giving Fiege an eventual shot at Star Wars. What their plans are in that regard are unknown, but it wouldn't surprise me if they also wanted to bring his narrative sensibilities to the Star Wars saga. I personally hope they don't go the route of phases in pursuit of culmination. It works for the Marvel films because ongoingness is part of the comic book medium, but the issue with this current iteration of Star Wars was the excess. Star Wars is best digested one film at a time over a couple of years... not a new, half-assed Star Wars event every winter. It's exhausting, and sucks the life out of the franchise.

That being said, I'm sure Kennedy's role at the company's already changing. We've seen how Disney has repeatedly fired at least five directors because their takes on Star Wars didn't work out, and some of that had to do with either the audience's response to their work or even just them as artists. There's no way Kennedy's not feeling this energy. I don't think she'd be fired outright... as I'm sure her contract will keep her at Lucasfilm for quite some time, but things seriously have to change, and I'm sure Disney knows that.

I mean, just compare the overwhelmingly positive response to The Mandalorian (i.e. Baby Yoda) to Kennedy's outings, which they've desperately struggled to make resonate with fans. There's no way the suits aren't aware of this disparity and attempting to solve it.

There was absolutely no reason to do a trilogy if they weren't going to follow Lucas's blueprint, and they didn't have an overarching storyline planned out. Colossal failure of leadership on Iger, Alan Horn and Kathleen Kennedy's part.

R192 "Game plan? We don't need no stinking game plan!"

Whatever one thinks of TLJ (I think it's mostly fine), it's ultimately the fault of Disney for not giving Johnson parameters. You can't make a trilogy with a relay race.

Disney's been remaking their animated classics all decade so it's no surprise they chose to remake A New Hope and Return of the Jedi.

They should remake the prequels with decent actors playing Anakin. Have him be 14-15 in the first film, not 9-10. Eliminate JJB.

No, r182.

Rey explicitly stated to Adam Driver that she did want his hand in marriage, but only as "Ben," his good persona. Then they embarked on a romance.

Trilogy format or Marvel format is not the problem.

The stories and scripts need to be original, good and focused on fewer characters that we care about.

Of course even the slightest extra in a STAR WARS movie gets a name an an action figure.

They're calling Dominic's character "Beaumont Kin."

This movie had way too much plot.

Want to do X? Got to take a detour to another plant to find the expert in X.

Happened over and over

My favorite part was when Ray was looking for a Sith Wayfinder, found one, then broke it or something, and then took two steps to the right and picked up another one, and the ADR of Daisy saying, "There were two," was HILARIOUS.

[quote]There were rumors that after the failure to meet expectations, Disney is dropping the "trilogy" format in favor of something more like the Marvel format with "phases" that culminate in some big ensemble movie.

So in other words, they're going to fuck it up even more.

[quote]I personally hope they don't go the route of phases in pursuit of culmination. It works for the Marvel films because ongoingness is part of the comic book medium, but the issue with this current iteration of Star Wars was the excess. Star Wars is best digested one film at a time over a couple of years... not a new, half-assed Star Wars event every winter. It's exhausting, and sucks the life out of the franchise.

Thank you. I hope someone from Disney is reading this.

Here's a bit of controversy for folks that's now making the rounds.

The Rise of Skywalker has been sitting at 86% for audience score with Verified Ratings: 39,947.

It has been sitting at an UNMOVING 86% audience score when there were 6000, 8000, 17000, 24000 verified ratings as well. Frankly, that is statistically highly improbable.

Oh, did I mention that the president of Fandango which owns Rotten Tomatoes is a former senior Disney executive?

I think the Rotten Tomatoes of it all should be seen not as some dark corporate conspiracy (which, yes, it likely is), but instead as an absurd example of blatant desperation on a studio's part to project an image everyone knows is false. Furthermore, the impact Rotten Tomatoes has had in regards to film discussion, especially in relation to these franchise pictures, is sad and depressing. People are going to war online over Rotten Tomatoes, which is just a compilation of fucking opinions. Who. Fucking. Cares?!

Go watch the film and form your own opinion. The relationship between you and the movie is the only one that matters. Everything else, for the most part, is just noise.

Should have been called "Star Wars: Mary Sue Rey does it again". Discard, discard.

I truly disliked this one.

PS I didn’t dislike The Last Jedi

R205 I was the complete opposite. I left the theater after TLJ feeling disappointed. I recognize things they could have done better but I enjoyed Rise of Skywalker much more. You can come for me about my taste or opinion but I dont give a shit.

Based on YT vids, reviews, and box office - this new Episode IX is universally hated. People are saying it is worse than the Prequels. That is fucking bad. It will be Solo level BO.

Kelly Marie Tran got a lot of undeserved shit, both for her race and for the shittiness of her character which was hardly her fault. However, Rose Tico was a pointless, no good character, and her entire existence in TLJ was an embarrassment.

It’s possible to pull off a good “below decks” plot line in science fiction, but it’s not easy. Sci-fi fans want space marines and space wizards, not janitors, technicians, and engineers. Tico being a crybaby in the middle of a war against the Big Bad sealed the character’s fate.

Tico being sidelined in RoS is the only good thing about it.

TLJ showed how the social hierarchy works in society lol. White girl Rey at the very top. Guata dude not even on the chart. Black dude at the very bottom. Viet girl Rose even lower than the lowest. Sad. Very sad.

[quote]Based on YT vids, reviews, and box office - this new Episode IX is universally hated.

I enjoyed it. It wasn't a great movie, but it did what it said on the tin. That's all I needed.

R210 every TRUE Star Wars fan knows that tin is a four-letter word in the SW universe due to being instrumental in the death of Luke Skywalker's beloved cousin, and never to mention it lest you remind those of what for many was the most horrible moment of their lives.

Dear r208,

BITCH, PLEASE!

I mean, really!

Nobody wants to watch an engineer!

And nobody wants to see me leave the farm unless it's to go to Toshi Station to pick up some power converters!

"I am inevitable" / "And I am Iron Man."

"I am all Sith" / "And I am all Jedi."

Abrams couldn't even bother to write original dialog for the climax of the movie.

Tony Stark is not really an engineer, he's a mega-rich asshole. The public loves that shit.

I only go to these movies because my stepson makes me. So I’m no super fan by a long shot. I didn’t hate it. But it was ridiculous. The whole theater laughed at a death scene near the end because it was so ridiculous. And the voodoo they used to install a dead Carrie Fischer into the movie was super creepy. I didn’t understand what was going on most of the time, and didn’t care.

After reading so many anti SJW criticisms of the first two films, it's interesting to hear the woke OP bashing the movie for not including a gay romance that was not even hinted at in the first two films.

They did explain Palps return in a single line. If I recall, it had something to do with cloning.

[quote] I hated the pandering to the fans by cutting Rose down significantly and giving her very few scenes because bigots can't handle an Asian girl on their screen. I did not like her, but that was fucked up for the actress who did nothing wrong.

Because she added nothing to the other movie and no one wanted to see her character again. Good enough reason for me.

[quote] Why give Keri Russell so little to do?

Who cares? Her character was used only to give Poe more development.

[quote] Didn't they do the same thing to Jar Jar Binks in the prequels? It is fucked up.

No one cared.

[quote] The scene when Rey and Kylo kiss was so cringe that my entire theaters started to laugh, and the woman behind me said "Adam Driver deserves better than this! I cant believe he agreed to this" and the man next to me looked at his son and said "this is so bad".

It wasn't meant to be sexual. It was mean to illustrate his redemptive arc, and give his Rylo's character a more dramatic sendoff. Rey was also overwhelmed by his sacrifice. Given the context, it didn't bother me in the slightest.

[quote] Leia choosing Poe to take over for her was a bit ridiculous to me. This is a character that was originally supposed to die within the first few minutes of The Force Awakens, but now he is given one of the most important roles in the film? Please.

I didn't have a problem with Poe in this film. His role was expanded in this film because, unlike Keri Russel, Oscar Isaac is a rising star and can convincingly play an action hero.

[quote] They hardly gave Finn anything to do in this one. He seemed to just be standing around watching everything happen while Poe now in General and Rey is... Rey.

He did a lot more in this one than in The Last Jedi.

Making Rey Palps granddaughter actually solves the problem of her being too powerful in the other movies. And in this one, Kylo actually gets to demonstrate more strength and actually gets the better of her in their light saber duel.

I didn't think it was a great movie, but Abrams was clearly listening to the fans. He expanded Poe's role, made Finn part of the main mission, made Rey more relatable, gave Leia a fitting sendoff, brought back the original characters (albeit very briefly), brought back Palpatine (everyone hated Snoke), sidetracked Rose because she was annoying, and brought back all of John Williams cues from the original trilogy. Unfortunately Abrams was saddled with all of Rian's poor decisions, but he couldn't have done any better with what he had to work with.

I was relived the Resistance had more than 14 people in it this time around. TLJ was ridiculous; if all you have are a dozen people on the Millennium Falcon, yes, you have lost.

[quote] What’s worse, [R1], is that Rey can’t attack Palpatine because it will turn her into a Sith. Except when she wants to attack him with help from Kylo-Ben.

This was after he sucked out her life force and attacked first.

Keri Russel's character was a lazy plot device to let the audience know that Poe wasn't a cocksucking pole smoker. That was the only reason.

Yeah, she definitely felt that way. "Code these boys STRAIGHT! Do it! Whatever it takes!" Though I did find it hilarious the way Finn just casually pats Rose on the back at the beginning of the film and that's the extent of their interactions after spending an entire film together.

The Keri Russell character was definitely there to let you know Poe was interested in pussy. They didn't even show her face. She wasn't even a complete character. All you needed to know was that they fucked in the past, she wants to fuck him, he wants to fuck her, but they're gonna play hard to get because who who the fuck even cares?

Also, C3PO was fully Jar Jarred in this film and I haven't seen anyone talk about that yet.

[quote] This movie had way too much plot. Want to do X? Got to take a detour to another plant to find the expert in X.

The series is full of macguffins but is given a pass because it's meant to serve the action, not the story.

C3P0 was hysterical in this film. I thought his sassiness stole the first half. And Babu Frick or whatever his name is gave me the church giggles because he reminded me, in looks and sound, of a Russian guy I work with.

[quote] Also, C3PO was fully Jar Jarred in this film and I haven't seen anyone talk about that yet.

That part didn't really work for me but you could make the case that Jar Jar was the original C3PO. It's mostly in the execution of it.

I mean that C3PO was the original Jar Jar. He was used as comic relief in the original trilogy.

R59 I'll complement Jake on having a nice ass but he's talking out of it now.

Say what you will but those who hated The Last Jedi will undoubtedly like this one much better.

So what, r226? Rey and Ben drew their lightsabers on Palpatine.

It's either a trap attacking Palpatine or it's not. The movie decided to throw this rule out the window when Ben arrived and they had to move forward.

This is the problem with STAR WARS demonizing anger all along. Humans don't exist without it and good guys have to get angry sometimes. Anger is used for good ALL the time.

I liked LAST JEDI more than this -- even though Luke's story was not in-character / believable / contrived for dramatic effect only.

I don't hate THE RISE OF SKYWALKER, but only the prequels and STAR WARS HOLIDAY SPECIAL are worse.

I rate it just below CARAVAN OF COURAGE: AN EWOK ADVENTURE.

R214

If they’d developed her character like that, maybe she wouldn’t have been hated.

She started out as a no-name useless character and ended as a no-name useless character. That’s on Rian Johnson.

I saw a meme online that said "Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker = written and directed by Reddit."

That's exactly what it felt like and I don't think that is a good thing for filmmakers/studios.

I'm R219: Jesus! I actually watched the entire movie without falling asleep and had no idea that Keri Russell was in it! What character did she play? (I know I can look it up, but honestly don't want to make the effort.) I don't know any of the character's names--so can someone describe what she did in the movie? I guess I was too distracted by the creepy dead Carrie Fisher cameos.

Poe's smuggler friend who helped them get the information with C3PO.

R241: Thanks, but I still have no idea who that is! Not the little gremlin who does the brain transplant on the robot, right? I'll look it up to see if I can find a picture of her character.

R241: Oh! The one in the mask who was jilted by the pilot! Now I don't feel so demented. We only saw her face briefly, right?

Setting aside "canon" and retconning either the previous two movies or the six before that, this movie has basic problems. At a minimum, a movie has to be internally consistent with itself and progress logically. There are huge holes that exist merely for dramatic effect or to plug other holes. You don't even have to think hard. I shudder to think the holes that people will find once people have time to think about it.

- After Rey flips over and cuts the wing off Kylo Ren's ship, it explodes. The ship she takes after her duel with him on the Death Star is not the same ship he had been flying. How did it have the Sith wayfinder that should have exploded with the other ship?

- How was Palpatine able to raise 10,000 ships through ice when Luke visibly struggles to raise his x-wing from the water (as Yoda did before him). If Palpatine is that powerful, how did he not obliterate Rey. Remember he raised the ships BEFORE he life-sucked Force energy (lol) from Rey and Kylo, so he wasn't at full strength. He uses finger lightning to disable the resistance fleet - ALONE. He's that powerful. Why would he even need a fleet of ships.

- Finn lands on the command ship and rides to the rescue on the space horses. He's breathing and there is gravity. The sith fleet is clearly still within some atmosphere with gravity. When Palpatine uses finger lightning and disables the resistance fleet, why didn't the ships immediately crash to the ground, instead of floating around.

- Force connection between Rey and Kylo - we can even go along with the "dyad" to explain why similar connections between Force users has never existed. But, teleporting material objects across space and time? HOW is that even possible. Deus ex machina - it's only possible because there is no other way for the story to work.

- The Death Star II crashed on the moon 40 years ago, but the ANCIENT Sith dagger macguffin was the right Goonies-ripoff shape to point to the EXACT location of the other Sith wayfinder macguffin?

- An entire company of First Order troopers quit - I guess Finn is even LESS special than we thought and the First Order is even worse at indoctrinating and training people.

- Why would the Senate need to outlaw translating sith. Why not just outlaw programming droids from reading and translating it in the first place. Why program droids like C3PO to be fluent in "over six million forms of communication" and include sith among them. Don't program them to read sith - problem solved. Not to mention, WHEN did the Senate outlaw it? Everyone thought the sith were gone. Did Paplatine do it because "he is the Senate?" Anakin made and programmed C3PO - why would he even fall under that restriction in the first place.

R244 Don't ask questions about this horrid movie. You do know that fucktard JJ Abrams and the screenwriter from Batman V Supes who gave us the line. Martha! Your mama's name is Martha? Let's be besties then. Everything about Episode 9 was nonsense based on the two fucktards who wrote it. End of story.

[quote]Martha! Your mama's name is Martha

For all future Star Wars and/or Abrams thread, we should replace the DL exclamation "Mary" with "Martha."

Gays wouldn’t be happy unless there were a vivid cocksucking scene

[quote]For all future Star Wars and/or Abrams thread, we should replace the DL exclamation "Mary" with "Martha."

WHY DID YOU SAY THAT NAME?

[quote]Gays wouldn’t be happy unless there were a vivid cocksucking scene

The majority of gays would be thrilled if the movie didn't do any sucking, cock or otherwise.

[quote] After Rey flips over and cuts the wing off Kylo Ren's ship, it explodes. The ship she takes after her duel with him on the Death Star is not the same ship he had been flying. How did it have the Sith wayfinder that should have exploded with the other ship?

This could be easily explained by the fact that Kylo actuated wanted Rey to find the wayfinder. In fact, the story could have worked just as well without it.

[quote] When Palpatine uses finger lightning and disables the resistance fleet, why didn't the ships immediately crash to the ground, instead of floating around.

He wasn't powerful enough, apparently. Perhaps he just wanted to intimidate Rey.

[quote] Force connection between Rey and Kylo - we can even go along with the "dyad" to explain why similar connections between Force users has never existed. But, teleporting material objects across space and time? HOW is that even possible. Deus ex machina - it's only possible because there is no other way for the story to work.

There is. Kylo didn't need the object to track Rey. That scene was used only for dramatic effect.

[quote] The Death Star II crashed on the moon 40 years ago, but the ANCIENT Sith dagger macguffin was the right Goonies-ripoff shape to point to the EXACT location of the other Sith wayfinder macguffin?

This seems like nitpicking.

R250 Nitpicking. Only one of the worst written movies EVER. Written by two of the biggest fucking morons in history more like.

The movie only made 20 million on Tuesday. Clearly no one wants to see it. The bad reviews and bad buzz has clearly got people staying away and the boycott from fanboys is on. There will be no repeat viewings for this shite.

[quote] I saw a meme online that said "Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker = written and directed by Reddit." That's exactly what it felt like and I don't think that is a good thing for filmmakers/studios.

This movie has a better audience score than The Last Jedi but worse critical reviews. You actually think the Last Jedi, which was rated fresh on Rotten Tomatoes, was better than this one? Abrams had to retcon a lot of what happened due to poor storytelling choices from the Last Jedi and Carrie Fisher's death.

[quote]This seems like nitpicking.

Are you familiar with humanity's relationship with Star Wars? The franchise basically exists to be nitpicked apart. Every little corner of this galaxy has some sort of canonized explanation and backstory. All of the minutia is examined in the Star Wars universe, so to say someone's nitpicking it is... what, like pointing out the sun rises? Yes... that's... what it does.

That being said, the moment Rey pulled MERCHANDISE out of a bag, then used MERCHANDISE to find location of more MERCHANDISE, I kind of couldn't believe what I was seeing. The dagger used to kill her parents was also some kind of secret Sith artifact used to find another Sith artifact? Ooh, boy that's some sweaty, classic Abrams plotting right there. He did the same thing with Star Trek Into Darkness. "If I make it loud, busy and nostalgic enough, I won't actually have to do any narrative or emotional heavy lifting and the suckers in the theater will shout to all the critics, 'Hey, you're nitpicking! Why can't you just let people enjoy things?! Turn your brain off and enjoy the movie!'" All these people defending Abrams' mediocrity... it's not a surprise that he still gets his hands on franchises. Expect nothing, get nothing... status quo maintained. Fuck that noise.

[quote]Abrams had to retcon a lot of what happened due to poor storytelling choices from the Last Jedi and Carrie Fisher's death.

By making a nonstop series of terrible narrative decisions? How one can shit on The Last Jedi while propping this up proves just how depressing this whole Star Wars experience has become... at least from a cinematic standpoint. It's that Giant Douche v. Turd Sandwich scenario from South Park. Big picture, why fight over which part of the sinking ship is dryer?

The guy playing Harrison has a hot body. Hot daddy. Yum. The guy playing George is missing his 50 chins. Still funny though.

This is what they deserve for forgetting about the Ewoks.

[quote] After reading so many anti SJW criticisms of the first two films, it's interesting to hear the woke OP bashing the movie for not including a gay romance that was not even hinted at in the first two films.

Do we even want [italic]Star Wars[/italic] after the makers revealed their sniveling contempt for fans? It's a damaged franchise. SJWs or no SJWs, nobody's going to buy products made by people who hate their guts. That's all it is to Disney: just another lifestyle brand for wine moms and Karens who think movies are nothing but cheap virtual babysitters for little Kaylee, Kaycee, Caden, Jaden, and LaTisha to shut them up for two hours.

r250 - key holes in the plot that prevent everything afterwards from happening is hardly nitpicking.

[quote]This could be easily explained by the fact that Kylo actuated wanted Rey to find the wayfinder. In fact, the story could have worked just as well without it.

Except for the fact that he would have had to have known to she would cause his ship to crash and remove the device. And how exactly would Rey have gotten to Palpatine without the macguffin they'd been searching for and how would the resistance fleet have followed her there?

[quote]He wasn't powerful enough, apparently. Perhaps he just wanted to intimidate Rey.

Powerful enough to do...what, exactly. He disabled their fleet. GRAVITY would have caused them to all plummet to the ground immediately. Are you familiar with how GRAVITY works?

[quote]There is. Kylo didn't need the object to track Rey. That scene was used only for dramatic effect.

You clearly haven't seen the movie. He grabs a necklace from her while they're communicating through their Foce connection to figure out she's on the planet where they find Lando and she does the magical Force Healing. She magically uses the Force to send him a lightsaber in his battle against the knights of Ren. Has literally nothing to do with tracking her.

I must assume you're just trolling me because no one could possibly misunderstand so thoroughly.

Was Walt the only person at Disney studios who actually knew how to edit a film?

All the dudes in this movie are fugly as hell.

[quote] And how exactly would Rey have gotten to Palpatine without the macguffin they'd been searching for and how would the resistance fleet have followed her there?

Using the same force power Ren has used to track Rey.

[quote] Powerful enough to do...what, exactly. He disabled their fleet. GRAVITY would have caused them to all plummet to the ground immediately. Are you familiar with how GRAVITY works?

Except he doesn't disable their fleet. It's never even mentioned by any of the characters. It only seems like he does at first.

[quote]He grabs a necklace from her while they're communicating through their Foce connection to figure out she's on the planet where they find Lando

So in other words, he does track her.

[quote] She magically uses the Force to send him a lightsaber in his battle against the knights of Ren.

It might be silly but it's not absolutely essential to the story. There could have been other ways to serve that plot point.

Thanks for confirming.

You clearly did not see the movie and are commenting only after having read some reviews, r261.

R262 Whatever you say 🙄

R262 While I think your reasons for disliking the film are more valid than the OP, you failed to make the argument that the movie defies its internal logic.

[quote][R262] While I think your reasons for disliking the film are more valid than the OP, you failed to make the argument that the movie defies its internal logic.

You mean other than the gaping holes that would embarrass fisting bottoms on Grindr?

If you cannot accept GRAVITY as causing disabled ships to crash to the earth, then there is nothing I am going to say that will convince you.

If "lightspeed skipping" TIE fighters works for you great. No matter that TIE fighters are usually short-range ships or that even if you decide they can go to light speed, tracking through hyperspace required a special piece of equipment that was so new that no one knew about it's existence, let alone having it on a bunch of random one-man fighters.

[quote]Except he doesn't disable their fleet. It's never even mentioned by any of the characters. It only seems like he does at first.

You mean other than watching ships power down, having Po scrambling around afterwards - okay, sure. And, you know, the obvious of Palpatine spraying finger lightning into the sky and having it hit ONLY resistance ship (great aim) and watching them power down?

r263 - hey if the crazy holes make sense to you, great. If you loved it, great. The only impact it could ever possibly have on me is if enough other people agree with you and Disney decides to make a slew of incoherent Star Wars films.

As many other people are now pointing out these and many other plot holes (those were the ones that popped into my head immediately), not to mention the fading box office, I can sleep knowing that a slew of movies along these lines is becoming less and less likely.

But, who knows. You may be in the majority and that will be just plain too damn bad for me, I guess.

Showings in my area are pretty much sold out today so I think saying, "Clearly no one wants to see this" is pretty pompous.

[quote]Showings in my area are pretty much sold out today so I think saying, "Clearly no one wants to see this" is pretty pompous.

Typical fanboy hyperbole.

Next will be an accusation that Disney has bought out theaters to make it look like people are seeing it.

[quote]Next will be an accusation that Disney has bought out theaters to make it look like people are seeing it.

I wouldn't put it past them, let me put it that way.

Maybe the one good thing to come out of this is that JJ Abrams can go away now.

While I am not the person who said "Clearly no one wants to see this" - "no one" for a Star Wars movie is a relative term.

This movie will obviously clear $1 billion, so first week ticket sales will be robust.

But, TFA made $2 billion. The real question is whether it will even match $1.3 billion of TLJ. Of course, it's selling out. It would have to be as bad as Solo not to be on Xmas day less than a week after opening with all the surrounding holidays and days off from work and school. But, it has done much worse opening weekend numbers than the previous movies.

[quote]The Rise of Skywalker pulled in $177 million domestically for its opening weekend, a step down from the $220 million opening of The Last Jedi and record-setting $247.9 million opening of The Force Awakens.

Those numbers mean nothing without budget figures.

R271, just stop. Try to accept that the movie is crap. Find something else to emotionally connect to in your life.

I'm not defending the movie, I'm only pointing out that box office success is relative to how much money is actually spent on a movie. With all the cuts, changes, and reshoots at practically the 11th hour plus all the in-your-face advertising for it, this is not going to be cheap.

[quote]Those numbers mean nothing without budget figures.

They mean nothing about profitability, but they are everything with regard to the number of paying viewers at theaters.

Of course, we would have to adjust for ticket prices, as well as other adjustments. But, since the average prices are going up and revenue is going down, it would make the picture worse. Also, do you REALLY think the budget for Star Wars movies has gone down? Anecdotally, marketing budgets definitely seem to have been cut to save money (but that could be purely perception and not actual), but the actual film budget?

Not to mention the last minute editing and multiple reshoots with multiple rumored versions of endings.

Just because someone bought a ticket doesn't mean they actually went in to see the movie. Disney movie tickets are often given away for radio promotions and contests and things like that, so it's likely the cinematic equivalent of payola is going on here.

This has been the worst Christmas movie season that I can remember. This Star Wars dud and Cats have ruined Christmas for millions of people. I blame Trump and Madonna.

R276: The best thing about this holiday movie season is that there is no Madonna movie this year.

While it's obvious that something is going on with the Audience score at Rotten Tomatoes, no one has raised the issue of inflated box office. Let's not get crazy here.

I've said it before. I would rather the movie have been good, than sit here on DL and rightly point out had bad it is. I'd rather all the plot holes (like the ones in the original trilogy) are easily overlooked because the rest of the movie is so enjoyable and the characters so likable (or campy fun like Palpatine).

"Typical fanboy hyperbole."

100% certified pompousness!

I loved the movie!

[quote]While it's obvious that something is going on with the Audience score at Rotten Tomatoes, no one has raised the issue of inflated box office. Let's not get crazy here.

You're right. If there was any kind of payola, graft, or bribery going on, then M would have gotten an Oscar nomination for that awful musical she was in recently and they would have done more to cover up the huge stain it left on the Disney legacy.

^^^ no one said that it doesn't happen.

What I said was that no one has raised the issue among all the other criticisms, including bought-and-paid positive reviews which has been raised numerous times.

It is a huge point of discussion right now that several sites, like IGN and others, have reviews that are overly positive.

R282 I don't think it's unusual. The IMDb rating is 7.0. Within a couple of months it should settle between that and 6.5 which is about right for this kind of movie. Terminator Dark Fate currently has a so so ish rating of 6.5 despite it being a mega flop.

I want to but my face in Oscar Isaac's musky butthole. (breathe deeply)

Oh yeah, the movie sucked.

If someone could explain to me that final scene with the star destroyers falling out of the sky over dozens of different planets. HOW DID THAT MAKE ANY SENSE? They ere all stuck on the sith planet, and nothing was shooting them down!

Throughout the whole movie I kept thinking to myself how it just didn't make any fucking sense. "Hey, let's crash the Falcon, but do it off screen so there's no drama, then fix it up in like 10 minutes so it's good as new and take off like nothing every happened!" I mean, what the FUCK was the point of that?!?

[quote]The Death Star II crashed on the moon 40 years ago, but the ANCIENT Sith dagger macguffin was the right Goonies-ripoff shape to point to the EXACT location of the other Sith wayfinder macguffin?

[quote] > This seems like nitpicking

No, it's not. It's ridiculous. Further, they happened to just look from the exact right spot where the shape was carved into the knife? Becasue move a few feet to either side, and nothing lines up anymore. That was a seriously STUPID moment, and it's not nitpicking to point it out.

The problem is that they erased the stakes by making the force too powerful. It explains everything and nothing.

Yeah, I call it "The Superman Problem". There are no stakes because The Force (like superman's powers) is always strong enough to get the writer past whatever corner he's written himself into.

People died and lived and died again. Does death have any meaning? Doesn't seem like it.

Basically nothing matters.

The opening scene... where it took place, and the people Kylo Ren is fighting are never explained in the movie. You have to go to supplementary material ("the visual dictionary") off-line to know what was going on there. And that's a significant part of the problem with this movie, and with Star Wars in general.

For the curious, it was planet Mustafar, where Darth Vader was "born" from Aniken SKywalker, and those people were a cult of Sith worshipers who settled Vaders crumbling castle.

[quote]You actually think the Last Jedi, which was rated fresh on Rotten Tomatoes, was better than this one?

Yes, r252. I'm sorry it has blown your mind.

But "poor storytelling choices from the Last Jedi" can't be blamed. You can make a great show from any starting points. What we can blame Disney and Abrams for is not having a complete and compelling trilogy mapped out before they made THE FORCE AWAKENS. Time spent on scripts and foresight pay better dividends than just rushing into production (again, see GAME OF THRONES).

And Carrie Fisher's death didn't have to ruin STAR WARS, either. It would have sucked, but they could have recast Leia or just animated Fisher (like they did in ROGUE ONE).

HARRY POTTER had to swap Dumbledores in mid-stream and it didn't affect the show quality.

RISE OF SKYWALKER didn't forget the Ewoks, r256.

Are you sure you've seen the film?

I'm confused about the poster saying gravity would cause the ships to fall to the ground. First off, space itself has no gravity. Things float, even big things. Second, what "ground?" There is no ground in space. They disabled the navigation to the ships so the ships could not talk with each other. They were floating in space with no shields after Finn took out the navigation. That's how they beat them. T

r265 is right, the Empire had a bunch of Tie-Fighters that were short-range. But since Obi Wan said, "No, it's a short-range fighter," it may imply there were long-rage fighters in his day. We don't know how Darth Vader's modified, alpha Tie Fighter got to safety after the Death Star exploded in A NEW HOPE. And since RISE OF SKYWALKER is two generations later, who knows what kind of advancements were made in Tie Fighter technology.

[quote]tracking through hyperspace required a special piece of equipment that was so new that no one knew about it's existence, let alone having it on a bunch of random one-man fighters.

Anakin and Luke's one-man fighters blasted into hyperspace all the time. Didn't Poe and FInn have small fighters in hyperspace before, too?

Otherwise, I agree with your points.

Pfffft r267.

Big movies usually sell out on Christmas, even if they're terrible. Especially with all the "luxury recliner seats" removing most of the seats from the theaters.

And SOLO was a good movie, r270.

Just because it was too soon for another STAR WARS flick and it underperformed doesn't mean it's bad. It was way better than LAST JEDI or RISE OF SKYWALKER. I honestly don't believe the haters on Datalounge saw it.

[quote]Just because someone bought a ticket doesn't mean they actually went in to see the movie.

Oh, let's not go THERE. Are you a troll?

Cut the crap about Payola and website user polls.

The cash speaks for itself -- studios don't count comped tickets as grosses. The theaters and media do that reporting themselves and they don't count comped tickets or gift cards, either.

If you want to look for a SCIENTIFICALLY RELIABLE BAROMETER of what the paying fans think, then you have to look at the Cinemascore polls of audiences. Notice how

[quote]Audiences agreed with critics with Skywalker getting the lowest CinemaScore ever in the Star Wars series with a B+

Believe me now? A lower audience rating than THE PHANTOM MENACE.

A Cinemascore B+ is always more like a D+ in terms of what critics and people in general would think of a movie. Paying fans are a biased crowd who desperately wanted to like the movie they paid for.

I didn't understand why the star destroyer fleet seemed to terrorize the universe, then return to the surface of Exegol, r285.

"Conjuring up" hundreds of super star destroyers is lazy porn to begin with. But the movie showed those star destroyers leave Exegol and start destroying planets and enslaving people across the galaxy. So why were they back on Exegol for the Resistance attack?

I took it to mean that only a few super star destroyers left Exegol and simultaneous rebel attacks occurred across the galaxy destroying them (and they all seemed to be in planetary atmospheres with their shields down. Why were they landing?) The Exegol fleet must have been the majority of the destroyers, I guess, so the Resistance chose there to attack. But it was super confusing / convenient.

Well, the Death Star II could hold relics of any prior age or origin, r286. The Emperor's Throne Room and nearby chambers would be the perfect spot. We know Palpatine was an artifact collector and he displayed them in his Coruscant offices in REVENGE OF THE SITH.

Oh, dear, r292.

Those ships were not in space. They were in the atmosphere of Exegol. I think some people haven't seen the film and are fishing for details or they're testing other posters.

[quote]We don't know how Darth Vader's modified, alpha Tie Fighter got to safety after the Death Star exploded in A NEW HOPE.

He made it to an Imperial outpost on a nearby planet.

With hyperspace? Planets are far away from each other usually.

His TIE fighter had a hyperspace drive.

I think I'm starting to understand why I enjoyed this film more than most. Even though I've seen all the Star Wars movies, it's been years since I've watched the original trilogy and prequels and haven't bothered to revisit or binge watch them recently. Even if I did, I'd still need an encyclopedia or dictionary to be able to analyze the universe to such a painstaking degree, that I would be constantly aware of it while watching the movie. For those who are more casual fans, I think they would enjoy it if they are already into Marvel or superhero movies which have the same issues in regards to stakes, especially when it comes to overpowered characters and time travel. Most audiences will forgive a poor story if they enjoy the characters or the action.

Frankly, EVERY Star Wars after 1983's Return of the Jedi has been dreck. Had Lucas used the momentum that he created at the time and not just basked in his wealth and laziness - the series might have been better off and might have been stellar for at least one or two more films. That said, The Empire Strikes Back was far better than "Return..." and perhaps Lucas did not want to jump onto a pitiful sequel train. I really don't know his mindset and the entire trilogy was initially released before my time; I do believe that every campy nightmare after 1983 has just tarnished the original epic trilogy however and has been an obvious land-grab for money with next to no substance. Sad..

I just saw it tonight, and, ironically (or not), what I hated most about it were the same things I hated the Last Jedi for. The plot was overly complicated, went in too many different directions, and introduced a bunch of unnecessary characters, which also contributed to the movie being hard to follow.

The best things about the original trilogy were the simplicity of the story, and the story being based on common, comforting tropes. They’re basically westerns crossed with Kurosawa’s most approachable films crossed with Flash Gordon. They’re silly fun with hints at deeper backstories that don’t need to be explained, that shouldn’t be explained because that erases the mystery.

R295 Solo was a terrible movie, you dolt. Its failure had nothing to do with it being released "too soon". If it was a good movie and had good buzz, fanboys would have turned up but as it was the boycott was on for the shitfest that was The Last Jedi.

All of these have sucked after the first three and I haven't seen any of them. Sometimes you have to know when to stop. Same with the first three ST movies.

Thanks for cunting R308 Your mama should have had you at a pig farm and let the pigs take care of you and the afterbirth but sadly, here you are. Stinkin' up the place.

Well, that was unnecessary cuntiness, R309.

For the poster claiming no one wants to see it, that Disney is buying seats no one's really sitting in, that the audience we are packed in with are figment of our imagination... The film had the second-best Christmas Day box office in history, only behind The Force Awakens..

Just saw it. And to my surprise, I really enjoyed it. The constant callbacks to the other movies did get incredibly annoying though 😑 Out of the JJ crew, I only liked Keri's character. Anyone could have done Dominic's role. And I really wish they hadn't brought Palpatine back. Also they could have handled Chewie's "death" better. Whoever did the editing for that scene fucked up.

I saw it on Christmas Day. I was alone in the theater. The other moviegoers were clearly holograms. Was the Emperor involved?

Disney hasn't animated films for years, you fools. They are using holograms powered by AI. That's why none of the films make any actual sense. And their live action films make even less sense because of the power required to use the holoprojectors.

[quote]Anakin and Luke's one-man fighters blasted into hyperspace all the time. Didn't Poe and FInn have small fighters in hyperspace before, too?

The point was entering hyperspace. It was that Po and the Falcon were "lightspeed skipping" and the fighters were able to follow them which would require tracking them through hyperspace.

Tracking through hyperspace was only possible in Empire because Boba Fett had attached a tracker to the Falcon and only possible in TLJ with a brand new piece of flux capacitor that NO ONE in the Resistance knew about because it was such new tech and ONLY on Snoke's command ship (the entire Finn/Rose story line of TLJ).

It seems dubious that random fighters would have been retrofit with such unique tech. Sure, maybe Kylo Ren's fighter might be (if it were even possible), but just random patrol fighters?

[quote]I'm confused about the poster saying gravity would cause the ships to fall to the ground. First off, space itself has no gravity. Things float, even big things. Second, what "ground?" There is no ground in space. They disabled the navigation to the ships so the ships could not talk with each other. They were floating in space with no shields after Finn took out the navigation. That's how they beat them. T

The Sith fleet above Exogol were obvious still within some atmosphere, or Finn and Jannah would not have been able to ride the space horses on top of the command destroyer - what would they have been breathing and how were they not floating away otherwise.

Therefore, the resistance ships were also fighting them within some atmosphere where gravity was in operation since they were in close proximity to them ships and flying in and around them.

So, when the Emperor used finger lightning to disable the Resistance ships, they would not have floated gently down giving them time for their systems to come back online, but come crashing down due to gravity.

The movie is a joke.

Bringing back Palpatine as the main villian and as Rey's family just reeked of desperation because clearly they had NO IDEA what the fuck they were even doing with this trilogy. Also none of the shit related to him is even explained.

There are no stakes to this movie, as soon as the Chewie death fake out happens you realize what you are in for.

Somewhere Kevin Feige is laughing. He can pull off a successful universe of Marvel movies but they can't make one decent trilogy of Star War movies?

What a disaster.

Yes, bringing the Emperor back was just lazy. They couldn't create another villain? It really isn't that difficult.

We should look forward to the next trilogy they're planning being something much better. One good thing is that the next trilogy will be an all-new story, and is supposedly not related to anything in this one. So there is some hope there.

The star wars pedia online has BILLIONS of years of history and tons of villains to choose from.

Why they seem intent on focusing on this one point in time and this narrow group of characters is inexplicable.

If the Emperor returned from the dead in Return of the Jedi, what makes his death in this movie his final one?

Among the MANY logical problems, his return essentially makes him immortal and unkillable or at least unable to be made permanently dead.

[quote]Why they seem intent on focusing on this one point in time and this narrow group of characters is inexplicable.

It actually makes some sense to me since the Vader storyline is big - he was supposed to bring balance to the Force, so it makes sense to dramatize an epic saga, given how lineage in the Force works.

Now, what this final story should have been and what WOULD have been interesting is if after all this time, the audience were fooled, once again, by who the prophesy of the Chosen One was actually about. It should have been about Rey (or Kylo) or the Dyad between them as being the "chosen one" that brought balance to the Force, not be balancing light and dark side, but recognizing that people have both within them and denying one side of one's nature is what leads to imbalance.

There is a theory that Qui-Gon understand this and that Obi Wan's failure in teaching Anakin was in ignoring the obvious dark side tendencies he had as a padawan.

R319 that is fucking hilarious and total shite. The Prequels were horribly written, brain dead musings of a 5 year old moron. George Lucas was somewhat good at making his stupid little creatures and stealing cityscapes and worlds from superior movies like Blade Runner but writing something logical and intelligent? Nope. Every one of the Prequels were absurdly written. Padme Amidala died of a "broken heart"? That is the most retarded and insulting thing Lucas could have written. She should have died a warrior's death. Revenge of the Sith should have focused on her family and matriarchal lineage. But nope, instead we get the horribly embarrassing crap that was Revenge of the Sith. Having you tell us about Obiwan's failures with Anakin as causing his split second switch to the Dark Side? LAME! Lucas having Anakin turn to the Dark Side to save Padme from death and then two seconds later having him kill her with the Force is beyond retarded. That is why I gave Revenge of the Shit 0% when I saw it in the theaters and I still give it a 0% since it was basically a cheap looking video game. Lucas has never known how to write.

Wrong, 307.

"Too Soon" had everything to do with it. Disney is oversaturating the market with too many STAR WARS and comic book heroes. Most people don't have the time, money or the appetite to watch all these films.

In and of itself, SOLO is good. Critics and users give it generally good reviews. And most of the critics against it cite "too soon."

You are wrong. The End.

r314.

Because when you get busted talking shit you know nothing about, pretend you were a troll along.

r320 = Woke Impersonator Troll

I think I preferred Solo to the last to TLJ and ROS. The low light cinematography is shit though. Rogue One is still the best of the Disney films.

r320 - paragraphs and a point, are you friends.

You should shake hands with them and say "hi."

R325 Eat cunt and die, trash. LOL.

Solo wasn’t great, but it was the most Star Wars film made since 1983. And by “Star Wars film“, I mean it’s generally upbeat, doesn’t take itself too seriously, and has a satisfying resolution.

And Donald Glover was fantastic as Lando.

I have to wonder what Rian Johnson thought he was doing with the Last Jedi. Who did he think was going to be the villain in Rise of Skywalker with Snoke dead? The original trilogy did a sleight of hand shifting the main antagonist from Vader to the Emperor, but the Emperor was introduced in the second movie, not the third.

The way Johnson hamstrung the third installment reminds me of a writing assignment I had back in seventh grade. We each had to write a short story that picked up where the story before ended and left room for the next student to add on to it. Adolescents being shits, a few students would deliberately write a story that couldn’t be continued by, say, killing off all the characters. Whenever that happened, our teacher would force a rewrite. Who the hell is driving this clown car that no one told Johnson to knock it off?

[quote]I have to wonder what Rian Johnson thought he was doing with the Last Jedi. Who did he think was going to be the villain in Rise of Skywalker with Snoke dead?

Kylo Ren. TLJ ended with Kylo Ren as the leader of The First Order.

Do you get how Rian Johnson was trying to desperately change up the formula with Last Jedi? He killed Snoke off in the second film to prevent the climax of the trilogy being a converted Kylo Ren and Rey teaming up to defeat Snoke a la Luke and Vader versus Palpatine. But instead JJ Abrams just went back to the same well and replaced Snoke with Palpatine.

Weren’t the plots of all three movies determined before the first was even filmed?

R330 lol no! Otherwise this wouldn't have been such a clusterfuck.

[quote]"Too Soon" had everything to do with it. Disney is oversaturating the market with too many STAR WARS and comic book heroes. Most people don't have the time, money or the appetite to watch all these films.

LOL - People have been starved for (good) Star Wars. If it were any good, fans would have gone - no question about it.

"Too soon" is an excuse by Kennedy at al. for it's utter failure. All you have to do is look at the Marvel movies to recognize that fans will consume as many as can be produced - and those aren't even all that good.

A boycott is laughable - who wanted one? No one called for a boycott.

If it had been good, people who have gone - just as fans were initially put-off by The Mandalorian, but immediately came around once it proved to be worth watching.

[quote] All you have to do is look at the Marvel movies to recognize that fans will consume as many as can be produced - and those aren't even all that good.

They are really not that good at all. I can understand teenagers who didn't grow up with the same films we did, but adults constantly praising these films makes no sense. I would argue that the Marvel movies are about the same quality, but at least with Star Wars, I have that nostalgic connection to the characters.

My ranking of the Star Wars movies:

A New Hope

Empire Strikes Back

Rogue One

Solo

Return of the Jedi

The Force Awakens

Rise of Skywalker

The Last Jedi

Revenge of the Sith

Attack of the Clones

The Phantom Menace

NO, EWOKS: THE BATTLE FOR ENDOR is #1!!!!

There is no escaping for you, my little one!

You can't beat Wilford Brimley. r334 has now trapped himself in a cocoon.

Solo was good much better than the dreary Rogue One. Did severe caree damage to the actor playing lrad and wws the only movie poor emilia Clark can call a bo hit. Also it ended with a cliffhanger that will never get resolved.

[quote]Also it ended with a cliffhanger that will never get resolved.

We know how it gets resolved.

He meets a young farmboy from Tatooine and befriends him and his old master. He helps them blow up a huge space station with the heretofore unheard of ability to blow up and entire planet. He meets and marries a princess and has a son.

Forty-years later, that son murders him in cold blood.

That never happened

[quote]Making Rey Palps granddaughter actually solves the problem of her being too powerful in the other movies.

This seemed so pat to me. Anakin appeared without previous lineage, so why did Rey have to be from a specific family?

Anakin's lineage was ALSO Palpatine.

You're forgetting that Palpatine was the sorcerer who impregnated Anakin's slave mother like the Virgin Birth of Mary.

J.J. Abrams also forgot this, as THE RISE OF SKYWALKER kept referring to the Skywalker family as separate from the Palpatine family.

But Palpatine was also Kylp-Ben's great grandfather, which makes Rey and Kylo-Ben first cousins, once removed.

STAR WARS INCEST IS BACK!

I somehow missed that when I viewed the prequels, probably because they didn't really hold my attention.

Thanks, r341.

George's brain dead, tone deaf writing more like.

my order:

Empire Strikes Back

A New Hope

Revenge of the Sith

Return of the Jedi

Rise Of Skywalker

Rouge One

The Force Awakens

Rise Of Skywalker

Attack of the Clones

Phantom Menance

Solo

[Quote]Making Rey Palps granddaughter actually solves the problem of her being too powerful in the other movies.

This is not a problem, that was the entire point of The Last Jedi: anyone can be a hero.

You see it with Rey being no one, you see it with the boy with the broom.

Of course JJ Abrams is like that fuck, you can only be special if your parents are special.

[Quote] you see it with the boy with the broom.

I wonder what happened to him 🤔

R345 No one gives a toss for The Last Jedi. It is the Jar Jar Binks of the "saga". Everyone agrees Rey was a Mary Sue. They should have made her Palp's grand daughter from the start then she wouldn't have been a Mary Sue.

Hahah, sorry the Rey conversation's been so stupid since 2015. "HOW'S THIS GIRL POWERFUL?!" That's been the central question driving her character... unnecessarily mind you. Abrams didn't think to imbue her with anything else? Why have this been the one thing audience's talk about in relation to the character. Palpatine being Rey's grandfather might solve the problem for the childish bitches who kept harping about her being a Mary Sue, but it does nothing dramatically for the character, and proves, beyond anything, that Abrams and co. are lazy fucking storytellers who desperately resurrected a villain because the idea of being genuinely creative is anathema to them.

Also, the people shitting on The Last Jedi in favor of Abrams' derivative exercise are HILARIOUS. Like... it's so funny to me because this trilogy's not worth it. Disney repeatedly made it clear that they had no overarching plan for the start, and we're seeing the results of that. This trilogy has been like watching two white men who had enough money to make their conflicting fan fictions into reality. We're basically watching Abrams and Johnson argue over the nature of Star Wars for 7 and a half hours. Is that what Disney wanted when they shelled 4 billion on the IP? What a fucking waste.

[quote]Disney repeatedly made it clear that they had no overarching plan for the start

NEITHER DID LUCAS.

Everyone thinks that he had this fourth-dimensional chess thing going on, when he was making it up on the fly as well.

R348 STFU, fagnoramus. God you are stupid. Bitch.

It doesn't matter whose granddaughter or what her lineage is. Making Rey Palpatine's granddaughter does not solve the question of how she is so powerful. It actually makes the Mary Sue problem even worse because it asserts that identity supersedes true mastery.

Use of the Force has always required some training - even if it's a training montage on Dagobah with Yoda. At the beginning of Empire, Luke could barely master the Force sufficiently to save himself in the ice cave from the snow monster. It's like thinking that Michael Phelps would still have won gold medals at the Olympics without ever having set foot in a pool because he was such a naturally gifted swimmer. Or even worse, that his GRANDDAUGHTER would be able to win gold medals without ever having spent one day training.

The biggest problem with the Force in these new movies is that it no longer has any rules or limitations. All well-done magic systems have some rules and limitations. In these new movies, it's just the get-out-of-jail-free card, deus ex machina to get poor scripts out of tight corners.

Of course it explains why she is so powerful. In Episode 9 super Kunt Kathy Kennedy has already given her GOD like powers which renders every previous movie and the FORCE moot. It no longer has any worth or meaning when she can do anything.

R345 Is one of those people who has never watched the prequels so they think it's a "revolutionary" concept that anyone can be a hero. It's well-established in the prequels that the Jedi come from diverse backgrounds. The message of TLJ was only needed if you ignore them, which actually is not that far from what occurred between Johnson and Abrams.

[quote]Everyone thinks that he had this fourth-dimensional chess thing going on, when he was making it up on the fly as well.

Hahah. I certainly didn't think Lucas was playing 4D chess with the original trilogy. They were lucky that first film even worked at all! They got even more lucky with Empire Strikes Back, and by Return of the Jedi the franchise has become self aware.

But cut back to Lucas. Star Wars was a tribute to a certain kind of serial as well as an articulation of Joseph Campbell's hero's journey. It's was basic myth-making done in a somewhat elevated fashion. Point it, it was an artistic risk at the time that no one could have seen coming.

That was the 70s. Nowadays we're well versed enough in narrative structure, or at least we should be, to avoid the making it up as you go along trap. You'd think the creative heads at Disney, or anyone with a fucking brain for that matter, would at the very least sit down and plan the damn thing. Aren't story bibles common in television? I've heard of show runners taking a rough 3-season outline to networks. Why Disney couldn't have carefully crafted this trilogy from the start I'll never know.

[Quote] Aren't story bibles common in television?

Not as common as they should be.

R355 Hahaha. Abrams again!

"Aren't story bibles common in television?"

I wish.

[quote]Hahah. I certainly didn't think Lucas was playing 4D chess with the original trilogy. They were lucky that first film even worked at all! They got even more lucky with Empire Strikes Back, and by Return of the Jedi the franchise has become self aware.

Perhaps you didn't, but people think he had this sweeping nine-movie series spring forth from his head full-formed, as Athena from Zeus.

He did give them chapter numbers in a specific order... So he clearly had some idea.

...after he released the second one.

That "Episode IV: A New Hope" wasn't part of the original release.

It was. I was that initial release, r360.

You sure?

From the Wikipedia article.

[quote]Star Wars was re-released theatrically in 1978, 1979, 1981 and 1982,[118] with the subtitle Episode IV – A New Hope being added in 1981.

It's a conspiracy theory that it wasn't in the initial release. I was there.

It's obvious Lucas never had a plan but at least the original trilogy still ended up telling a clear narrative vision.

This trilogy is a narrative disaster, with the latest one spending a lot of time just undoing stuff that was presented in the previous movie. The story is literally fighting each other as the fact there was a never a hard plan is laid bare for the audience.

"Episode IV" was definitely in the 1977 release. That's why it was a little confusing back then. "Episode FOUR???"

You are wrong r365 of course.

Obviously the other poster is being sarcastic, but you seem to somehow be actually confused about this basic fact.

People were confused by its inclusion in the re-release; it was not there in the original release.

R347 She was a Mary Sue and would have been in any case. As far as I'm concerned, the last three movies should just be discarded from canon entirely. Even the "prequels" were better than this tripe. PS, fuck you JJ Abrams.

Wrong, r351, people can have Force powers they don't understand without any training.

Luke, Leia, Finn, the "Force Sensitives" of Rogue One, Rey and Baby Yoda all stumbled on to powers they didn't understand, before and AFTER some training.

Ain't nobody trained that Baby Yoda.

Wrong, r369.

Being "Force" sensitive doesn't provide for active or conscious use of higher order Force talents. At best, it is, as noted "sensitivity" that is more or less heightened intuition - Anakin was not actively using the Force before being taken by Qui Gon for training, neither was Luke or Leia. At the end of RotJ, Leia "senses" that Luke wasn't on the Death Star when it blew and was still alive. She wasn't flying through space, frozen solid without breathing equipment. Luke actually doesn't exhibit ANY Force talents before beginning training with Ben while on the Falcon on their way to Alderaan to return R2.

All examples of wildly excessive Force usage comes from post-Disney storytelling. Also, you have no idea what type of training the monks (or whatever they were) in Rogue One may or may not have been given by their order or Baby Yoda might have had (albeit, he's technically a very young child, but he's still 50 years old - and the entire question of who he is and his race is still open for speculation).

Also, what Force powers Baby Yoda has are, frankly, retconning - notice how they slipped in Force Healing for him just before it became the pivotal Force power in TRoS? The release of episodes of The Mandalorian were specifically timed against the release of TRoS - notice how the release dates were modified and were timed to provide least disruption for the theatrical release (Dec 18 and Dec 27 vs. TRoS release Dec 20 with early showings on Dec 19 that would go into opening weekend box office totals).

R365 Fuck off, troll.

[quote]"Episode IV" was definitely in the 1977 release. That's why it was a little confusing back then. "Episode FOUR???"

Probably the most stupid comment on this entire thread.

The original release and ALL non-special edition versions simply call it Star Wars.

Episode IV was appended much later.

[quote]On April 10, 1981, roughly a year after The Empire Strikes Back was released in theaters, 20th Century Fox and Lucasfilm re-released the original film, too. Only this time, George Lucas decided to add “Episode IV” and “A New Hope” to the famous opening title

Lucas also had a backup sequel plan in case Star Wars wasn't financially successful and he couldn't convince Ford to come back. It was later adapted as a book called Splinter of the Mind's Eye. Han's not in it, and it takes place on a fog-bound planet to save on special effects.

Also, it's clear it hadn't occurred to him to make Luke and Leia siblings yet.

He had no plan.

I hate how they made everyone be a a potential force sensitive. People that can manipulate the force are unique hence why they become jedi or sith. Now anyone can be force sensitive. This franchise should have died after return if the jedi. Every movie has sucked since.

[quote]It was later adapted as a book called Splinter of the Mind's Eye.

Lol, I had that book, and the sibling thing later in the movies made it unintentionally amusing when I re-read Foster's novel later.

You can spin it any way you want, r370, but Luke didn't know he had the power to converse with dead Obi Wan in EMPIRE STRIKES BACK until he did it.

He and Leia didn't know they had the power to sense and communicate telepathically with each other when the Millennium Falcon rescued Luke beneath Bespin City, either.

Force powers have always been portrayed as accidental, naive OR trained. There's a lot more mystery and room for variety than your narrow/ embarrassed mind is allowing.

Wrong again, r377.

The ability to return as a Force ghost is a function of the person returning, not the person viewing.

"An old friend has learned the path to immortality. One who has returned from the netherworld of the Force. Your old master."

Qui Gon was apparently the most recent to have discovered how to become one with the living Force and return his unique identity. Qui Gon taught Yoda who taught Obi Wan how to do it.

You are wrong in both your interpretation of how it's portrayed and actual story details.

Lucas clearly makes it up as he goes along and lies about it. Glaring examples are Leia's and Luke being siblings and one movie Obi says Darth killed his father and in another he said he didn't literally kill his father. Still Lucas does a better job of it than the creator of Lost and this trilogies biggest mistake was hiring Abram twice when they should have hired one great director for all three. I dont know who that would have been. The only consisently good director i can think of is the guy who did Parasite.

Lucas clearly makes it up as he goes along and lies about it. Glaring examples are Leia's and Luke being siblings and one movie Obi says Darth killed his father and in another he said he didn't literally kill his father. Still Lucas does a better job of it than the creator of Lost and this trilogies biggest mistake was hiring Abram twice when they should have hired one great director for all three. I dont know who that would have been. The only consisently good director i can think of is the guy who did Parasite.

"From a certain point of view" in ROTJ says it all about how sloppy Lucas was. It didn't start with Disney, fanboi.

It didn't start with Disney, but Disney exacerbated it to a new degree.

Why can't they give star Wars films the same quality as the Pixar films?

Why can't they give star Wars films the same quality as the Pixar films?

I don't think that anyone is making the argument that the original trilogy, let alone the prequel trilogy, is flawless or an example of perfect storytelling or movie making.

They all have errors and problems with their plots, even if you don't count the tinkering Lucas did later (Han shot first).

However, the original movies told an original story (literary traditions and film and storytelling tropes notwithstanding) with new characters, situations, and worlds while the new movies simply retread the same ground with bland (that is the criticism, not a statement of fact) characters. People became invested in those characters and their stories while the new movies failed to achieve that because of the accretive problems.

The difference between the new movies and old movies is that the new movies pass the tipping point for maintaining the willing suspension of disbelief, making the flaws more noticeable and characters less engaging. The Mandalorian demonstrates that a show that has fewer flaws (it's also not perfect) and stayed below the threshold will engage audiences without having to be irreproachable.

this chick says it all. Literally, it’s over an hour. But effective and insightful.

R384 the Pixar films have been going downhill since Disney acquired the studio.

I wonder what Lucas thinks of the Mandalorian.

R386 I like this one. Essentially says the same thing but is triggered.

^They should leave their hair alone.

^ is it a nonbinary?

I'd rather watch any of the Disney movies over a shitty YouTuber's take

^these days it is dangerous to ask or speculate.

R389 She's actually a straight woman and talented satirist.

R394 imma need to see the receipts

All of these Youtube idiots should be sent to a third world country for a year.

[quote]I wonder what Lucas thinks of the Mandalorian.

He was on set during filming. Filoni's basically his padawan. I think there's just a tacit understanding that Lucas approves of whatever he's up to.

[quote][R389] She's actually a straight woman and talented satirist.

I don't doubt that for a second, except for one thing -- you should not need to take almost an hour to critique a movie that's two hours and twenty minutes long.

[quote]He was on set during filming. Filoni's basically his padawan. I think there's just a tacit understanding that Lucas approves of whatever he's up to.

Filoni started making Star Wars stuff before Disney acquired Lucasfilm.

It is strange that Lucas tried to slip Kennedy into her role before the transaction so that there would be someone he trusted to guard his legacy. Guess that didn't work out so well for him since she's reported to be the one most opposed to it.

I had the BEST time at "Rise of Skywalker"!

Sure, the first hour was a great Star Wars action film, but we started giggling at the big revelation and kept stifling the sniggers right on to the final chord. It was all hilarious, from Mark Hammill presenting his contractual obligation, to the credits with 50,000 names in the special effects section. I haven't enjoyed a movie so much in years, this is what escapism is all about!

My favorite part was when Rey used STAR WARS MERCHANDISE to find STAR WARS MERCHANDISE. Anyone know where I can buy that dagger that was such a creative and clever McGuffin thanks J.J. Abrams, master artist?

R401, are you also R253?

[quote]we started giggling at the big revelation and kept stifling the sniggers right on to the final chord.

Oh, dear!

Who cares what he thinks of the series ? What does he think of the recent movie ?

I liked the youtube`s chicks. review. Maybe a hour long but it kept my interest.

At least this film will cause Abrams not to be called `visonary` like they do so many other hacky directors nowadays. Also he probably will never get oscar nominated like he so desperately wanted.

R402 Well would you look at that I guess I am, but you didn't answer my question about genius Abrams' stabby merchandise. Where can I buy that very important and emotionally resonant plot point?

R398 To be fair, a lot of critics are using the opportunity to talk about either the trilogy or even the franchise. Besides, the honest commentary has made suffering through some horrendous films more worthwhile and cathartic.

R404 She actually had a thoughtful analysis of the movie. Good intelligent girl. Don't see many of those lately.

The woman in r386 makes some very good points.

Fascinating analysis of how and why the Disney fuckers had to destroy and unmake Luke Skywalker and Han Solo and all the men of Star Wars.

WRONG AGAIN, r370.

You can't alter matters of fact in the STAR WARS universe that have been on screens for over 40 years.

[quote]Anakin was not actively using the Force before being taken by Qui Gon for training,

FALSE. Anakin was using "Force reflexes" as a 9-year-old boy, before he ever met a Jedi or trained, to 1) Build C-3PO. 2) Build a championship racing pod. 3) Become "the only human who can pod race" 4) Win the pod race to give Qui Gon Jinn a ride home and buy Anakin's freedom and 5) Predict and read the images hidden on Mace Windu's "laptop" psychically when Anakin stood before the Jedi Council to be tested for Force powers in THE PHANTOM MENACE. NO TRAINING.

"He can see things before they happen," Qui Gon Jinn said, "That's why he appears to have such quick reflexes. It's a Jedi trait." Later, Qui Gon tells Anakin, "You must have Jedi reflexes if you race pods."

Secondly, Luke's usage of the Force in EMPIRE STRIKES BACK to pull his lightsaber out of the snow in the Wampa monster's cave is precisely an example of using the Force without training, contrary to what you say.

Luke didn't have any training for that! The only training Luke got from Obi Wan in A NEW HOPE was how to wield a lightsaber and block incoming laser bolts blindly. If Luke had had telekinesis training, the lightsaber — merely a foot away — would have shot into his hand immediately and effortlessly. Luke struggled and wished it to happen. The lightsaber struggled to move. Obi Wan didn't train Luke to levitate objects — Yoda did, during Luke's formal training LATER. It looked like a naive leap of faith to me.

You also missed the point when you stated, erroneously:

[quote]The ability to return as a Force ghost is a function of the person returning, not the person viewing.

It is a function of both. A supernatural messenger has to have a supernatural receiver. And my point was that Luke didn't know he could receive telepathic messages from the dead when Obi Wan called to him on the Death Star in A NEW HOPE, or bombing the Death Star in A NEW HOPE, or freezing in the snows of Hoth in THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK. All this was before Luke's formal training. The same goes for Leia when she sensed Luke's cry for help and location underneath Bespin City for rescuing, and Leia's ability to sense that Luke wasn't on the Death Star II when it blew up in RETURN OF THE JEDI, which she relayed to Han Solo on Endor. "I can feel it," she said, UNTRAINED.

Now you're the asswipe who stated unequivocally at r351 that:

[quote]Use of the Force has always required some training.

That's PATENTLY FALSE. You made an assumption disproved by many precedents set in the earliest STAR WARS films, which you probably haven't seen. Abrams' movies may suck, but it's not because Rey uses powers she doesn't fully understand without training, like Jedis before her.

The more you double- and triple-down on your mistake, trying to save face, the more you make an ass of yourself. You have a narrow, absolutist mind and Only a Sith deals in absolutes.

BITCH.

r410 - all your examples are misinterpretations and cannot be countered because they are fundamentally flawed.

For example:

[quote]Secondly, Luke's usage of the Force in EMPIRE STRIKES BACK to pull his lightsaber out of the snow in the Wampa monster's cave is precisely an example of using the Force without training, contrary to what you say.

You mean in Empire Strikes Back after he spent the trip to Alderaan on the Falcon being trained by Ben and had clearly begun to feel the Force flowing through him as demonstrated by his deflecting the laser bolts from the training ball - which was, you know, the ENTIRE point of that scene since it was a setup to the final scene where he uses the Force to blow up the Deathstar?

[quote]Luke Skywalker: You know, I did feel something. I could almost see the remote.

[quote]Ben Kenobi: That's good. You've taken your first step into a larger world.

It's like trying to discuss whether the earth is round with a flat-earther. Nothing I say is going to change your mind.

Warner Bros is paying 500 million to JJ Abrams to "fix" the DC universe. Just picture what they have to look forward to from hack Abrams. Mystery boxes that reveal nothing, no plot, lens flares, lots of running. I am not a fan of DC at all. This will not end well.

[quote]Warner Bros is paying 500 million to JJ Abrams to "fix" the DC universe. Just picture what they have to look forward to from hack Abrams. Mystery boxes that reveal nothing, no plot, lens flares, lots of running. I am not a fan of DC at all. This will not end well.

Don't forget that brilliant dialog. Finn spends so much of the movie screaming "REY" that it could be (and probably will be) a drinking game. Of course, there's also, I am Iron Man...er...I am all Jedi.

To be fair, though, it's already such a mess other than Wonder Woman (pending the next one) and Aquaman that he really can't do much more damage. It's already an incoherent mess - MARTHA!

DC has been a fucking disaster. I would never see anything as ridic as Wonder Woman or Aquaman. I don't buy those characters at all but Jesus in Space aka Man of Steel was one of the movies that disgusted me so much I have been boycotting Hollywood ever since. Cavill was not an actor in any way. He was not even wooden. His prettiness was debatable.

Okay, so the fandom's taken another turn. I'm sure you've all seen #ReleaseTheJJCut or whatever trending all morning. Well yeah, so someone who's allegedly connected to someone who's allegedly connected to the creative process of this film wrote a tell all basically about the ridiculous behind the scenes nonsense that went into making this film. I'd take it all with a grain of salt, but what you shouldn't take with a grain of salt is that the fandom's fully on board with it. They're mobilized and they give a fuck, and we saw where the Snyder Cut fans took things... who knows where the Star Wars ones will.

I'll link the reddit post so you can decide for yourselves, but I think the craziness is just beginning.

R415 Disney has never been about integrity or creativity or originality. They will never bend over to the fan's will. What a stupid thing to even suggest. Disney ruins everything it touches.

So The Rise Of Skywalker made 16.9 million on New Years Day. The Force Awakens made 34.4 million the same day. Half. That is awesome news.

Well something has to explain how inept this was.

Very interesting points in r145.

However, militating against some of the timeline and story points that JJ supposedly wanted and had intended is that another Reddit post that revealed many leaks months earlier, so would go against the idea of JJ-approved cuts in November and last minute meddling, of the story essentially in its current configuration.

While Disney trying to discredit and torpedo Abrams makes some sense as protecting Marvel is the better bet for now and they were never going to have as big a flop as Solo on their hands, that article essentially credits Abrams for everything good and blames Disney for everything bad. All criticisms leveled against TRoS are the result of Disney meddling and all the good things were either cut or him.

Lost, Alias, and Start Trek and Star Trek Into Darkness (Cumberbatch is not Khan) among others demonstrate that some of the claims about his having a different vision should be taken with a grain of salt.

Interesting link, R415, but the story there does smell like bullshit. The poster there wants us to believe that Disney would deliberately mess up their grand tentpole film, just to mess with a director who *might* work for the competition in the future? BullSHIT, their absolute top priority would be maximizing profits from the Star wars movie and associated merchandise sales!

So it sounds like Abrahms is trying to save his reputation with the nerds, by denying responsibility for the finished product.

Agreed R420. I don't believe that Disney would intentionally mess up one of their biggest brands, especially since it has been on shaky ground since TLJ and Solo. They needed to stick the landing on this last episode (they missed but I don't think on purpose). I am also not inclined to believe that Disney would not give Abrams extra money for his script if he requested it. This is the same studio that paid to reshoot 70% Solo when things were not looking good (likely knowing that they were not going to turn a profit at that point), and Episode IX was an immensely better bet for success than Solo ever was.

Kuntess Kathy " the force is female" Kennedy was the worst thing Lucas could have done to the franchise. She is anti-white male yet hired nothing but white males who could not by definition achieve her bogus agenda. Truly moronic bitch.

[quote]Agreed [R420]. I don't believe that Disney would intentionally mess up one of their biggest brands, especially since it has been on shaky ground since TLJ and Solo. They needed to stick the landing on this last episode (they missed but I don't think on purpose). I am also not inclined to believe that Disney would not give Abrams extra money for his script if he requested it. This is the same studio that paid to reshoot 70% Solo when things were not looking good (likely knowing that they were not going to turn a profit at that point), and Episode IX was an immensely better bet for success than Solo ever was.

While I agree that it's a dubious position to think they'd purposely sabotage it, there are some points that argue that they might be playing the long-game, as Disney has proven it does very well.

- all of the controversy surrounding TLJ. They recognized they were NEVER going to satisfy fans or have a HUGE blockbuster, especially after having seen the initial cuts of the movie. They knew that TLJ had made a coherent story virtually impossible. At best, they were looking at matching TLJ (by any other standards a huge box office hit, but a dismal failure compared to TFA).

- They have consistently maintained that it was "fatigue" that lead to Solo's box office failure. While we know that's an excuse, the idea is out there and probably has gained some currency in executives' minds.

- Marvel is currently their cash cow that Star Wars should have been. The article suggests that they are most concerned about a reinvigorated DC franchise, further suggesting they buy into the idea of some form of moviegoer fatigue and that better box office for one movie does detract from other movies - a not totally unreasonable position in some respects.

- TRoS becomes an exercise to cut their losses, mitigate potential damage, and protect other Star War (The Mandalorian, Clone Wars animated reboot, Disney+) - and most importantly protect Marvel. It's not as if TRoS will actually lose money (like Solo). It just won't make as much - and it really was never going to. So, they start pandering to what THEY think were the problems with TLJ (which they don't actually really understand why fans hated it so much, especially since Kennedy and Johnson et al. continue to troll the fans).

Trashing Abrams (of whom I am not a fan) is an effective way to accomplish all of that. It's a bit too Alexis Carrington, but by the same token, these are the same people who thought approved all of this mess that could easily have been avoided in the first place, by having, you know, a planned storyboard for the entire saga.

Serves them right now that the same fans to whom they were catering with TLJ while calling other fans misogynists and "toxic," are now screaming for heads and actually issuing death threats against Disney, Kennedy, and Abrams over the whole Reylo and death of Kylo Ren.

Make good movies. They'll find their fans if you do.

A friend talked me into seeing it, it's no good. Not even entertaining.

There were probably studio-mandated cuts and changes, but that doesn't mean that the JJA version would have been any better.

Agree that JJA is trying to save his reputation with the nerds, and shift blame from himself to Kennedy.

The whole disney trilogy was trash. No back story to any of the leads. No original ideas. Lucas may have had his balls kicked to oblivion by the fans for the Prequels but he said he would NEVER make anything that was a rehash of shit he already did. Their version of a droid was a fucking soccer ball. Boyega was basically a freed slave and a fucking janitor! Huge insult to black people. Rey was a mystery box and a Mary Sue who the fans always hated and had no respect for. The latino dude was supposed to be killed off 5 minutes into the Force Awakens movie so he brought absolutely nothing to the series. Han Solo should have never been killed off since he is the only bankable star in the whole series next to Sam Jackson. Carrie Fisher was such a fucking drug wasted dreck she should not have had more than a 5 minute cameo in the whole trilogy. But you know, "the force is female".

[quote]Han Solo should have never been killed off

There are rumors that Ford only agreed to do it if Han was killed. He had wanted that in RotJ.

There is also a rumor that the Lucasfilm sale agreement continues to pay Lucas royalties on any characters he created if they use them. Killing all three of the original leads was not only a way to get around that.

Also, there is some speculation that they only brought Filoni's very well regarded among fans Clone Wars back because of how badly TLJ and Solo did. Disney was concerned as The Mandalorian hadn't aired yet, so they needed to pad their bets that Disney+ would have a popular Star Wars show.

[Quote] It's already an incoherent mess - MARTHA!

Dear r411,

Blast shield lightsaber lessons are not telekinesis lessons. Obi Wan and Luke did not have time for that on the Millenium Falcon in A NEW HOPE.

And Obi Wan offered Luke tips from beyond the grave on how to blow up the Death Star with his X-wing as it was happening.

You're the flat-earther in denial here.

Dear r429 -

You type flat.

That Reddit is the most ridiculous thing I've read in years.

So.... everything GOOD is all JJ.

Everything BAD is all Disney.

And, somehow, Disney made changes to the movie to ensure its $ucce$$ especially in foreign countries, BUT THEY ALSO want to have the movie be a failure in order to ruin JJ's career so he couldn't go to WB.

Totally ridiculous.

STAR WARS will make Disney billions for the next hundred years. Their decisions (good or bad) are all about money-making, not about how they can ruin a creator's career and destroy the competition while tanking their own franchise film.

"Release The JJ Cut!" LOL!!!

[quote]"Release The JJ Cut!" LOL!!!

This is the part that makes this all but certain bullshit.

The amount of fandom energy and positive word of mouth that Snyder got from the rumors of his director's cut done, but hidden away, makes this seem like a feeble attempt to replicate it.

Snyder's reputation seems to have improved significantly from this rumor. it just seems too pat and ham-fisted an attempt to deflect blame from Abrams.

I've liked all of the previous Star Wars films (even the prequels and Solo) but this was a slog to get through. It felt like a dull retread of everything, like a singer who goes back and re-records their greatest hits but they sound cheap and flat and not as good as the originals.

I would agree this was the worst Star Wars movie r433. AOTC and TPM at least were trying to tell a story even though the execution was terrible.

This movie was so uninspired. "Alright, we are contractually obligated to finish off this trilogy, so let's just throw some shit together and call it a day."

Bringing back the Emperor was the first sign this was going to be shit. Now, I love Ian McDiarmid but the Emperor's story finished with ROTJ.

[quote] like a singer who goes back and re-records their greatest hits but they sound cheap and flat and not as good as the originals.

I got your number, HUNTY!

Red Letter Media's take is hilarious, as usual.

Hopefully, they'll produce a full-blown review as Mr. Plinkett and take down RISE OF SKYWALKER like they did the prequels and other franchises.

Now that Taylor Swift is getting back the performing rights to her early songs, she will be re-recording them as her new "official" versions.

BTW, I'm NOT sorry that I LOVE the 1997 versions of the original Star Wars trio of films! Thank you, George Lucas, for Biggs and Jabba!

Red Letter Media sucks now. There are a million other youtubers who are way more funny, original, relevant than Jay and what's his face. I do like the bald fat guy though. He tickles me.

The Rise of Soywalker made 9 million yesterday. Haha. That is fucking awesome. Nobody I know plans on seeing it. I have even asked random people at Starbucks and other places. Only 2 out of 10 have seen it. Most have no intention of seeing it. Most common reason for not seeing it: I have no idea what would be going on. I have been telling folks it is NOT a Star Wars movie and has zero connection to the previous 8 movies. Fuck Disney. Also no one understands why the fuck Palpatine is back and why Rey is his grand daughter.

I think the sequel trilogy will eventually grow on me, the way the prequels did.

I mean the prequels are fairly terrible films by any objective standard, yet there's things I enjoy tremendously. Like every moment Palpatine is onscreen, the score, Qui-Gon, the goofy dialogue, etc. Of course if the sequels were more ridiculously over the top like the prequels, I'd start forgiving their flaws a lot sooner...

Ani's extended race is fantastic!!!!!!!!! It's better than anything by JJ and Rian.

The underwater world is also more exciting and gorgeous than anything from 2015 onward.

I will say Daisy is actually excellent in TLJ but JJ RUINS her in this final movie.

Agreed. Daisy has grown on me like a genital wart. She was never a bad actress as some have claimed. Adam Driver is also an excellent actor. If only the trilogy had a plot and a plan from the beginning, these two could have been great. But get rid of the runaway slave, the soccer ball, and the sexy Guata dude.

Yeah, I'm not attracted to Adam, but he is excellent in the last two movies.

I can't believe how charming Daisy is in TLJ, though! JJ did not follow through with her character development at all.

Tarantino should do a Star Wars movie, that would be interesting.

R445 omfg are you stupid or just retarded?

Why not r445? Considering the shitpile Star Wars is at the moment, Tarantino would be a different take on the whole thing.

R447 fuck off, troll.

Disney/Marvel psychotic shill at R448!

R449 brain dead, inbred fucking moron.

R450: JJ IS GOD!!! SO IS RDJ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Block that one cunt, half the thread disappears. Fucking troll.

Block that one cunt, half the thread disappears. Fucking troll.

WEHT to midichlrians?

Also in Rise of Skywalker it seemed like "light saber" was consistently just called a "saber". Does this mean anything?

R454 The Rise of Skywalker has absolutely no connection to the first two trilogies. Everyone with a brain knows that.

OP, I had a very different experience than yours. I thought it was a much better movie than the previous 6. It was definitely the best of this trilogy. And when Rey and Kylo kissed, the crowd applauded. I did too, because I thought she actually had some chemistry with him, compared to zero with Finn.

I appreciated how much they cut back Finn's part, although I thought his acting had improved a little. So had Rey's, but neither of them were up to the level of being a lead in such a huge franchise. Better that they give Poe the series with Rey as a secondary character or bump her off and she has a kid who takes over (who can actually act).

Supposedly JJ had a nearly 4 hour cut but many details went by the wayside. So many of your complaints were probably addressed (although it's already been stated that the Asian gal's part was diminished because they weren't happy with Carrie Fischer's hologram/presence in scenes with her).

Tarantino is actually doing a Star TREK movie, for real!

He is so fucking wrong for the franchise. It's all about optimism, or should be, and Tarantino is a snarky pervy shallow cynic. He'll be worse than Abrams was..

The alleged “JJ cut” mentioned by r456 is total bunk. Some JJ fanboy went on reddit claiming that Abrams had all of these wonderful scenes planned and shot, except big ol’ meanie Disney wouldn’t let him have his vision, supposedly as punishment for Abrams leaving the Disney stable for Warner and taking over their DC comic book movies— which would put him in direct competition with Disney’s Marvel.

The idea that Disney would purposefully tank a billion plus movie just to spite Abrams for directing the next Superman is the kind of thing only a deluded fanboy thinks; it’s not the way corporations work.

"Let's sabotage our movie, theme park, and merchandising divisions. That'll show that J. J. Abrams smarty pants!"

TRoS made 11 million on Friday. Considering all the millions of people off work, and the kids from school, that is hilarious. At this rate it will be 30 million or so for the weekend. Sadly it will still make a billion dollars globally.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

By definition, a movie should be a self-contained experience, requiring no additional explanations and certainly no additional books, comics, or extended edition director's cut commentary to make clear what's going on.

By definition, if a movie is an abject failure if it requires such.

By definition, you're a moron. JJ and all his horrible writers could never write anything resembling a plot from a narrative structure.

New rumor to go along with the JJ supercut rumor.

Trevorrow's Star Wars Episode 9 Script Allegedly Leaks.

While it doesn't have the overt story flaws of TRoS - it really doesn't sound that much better.

Yes it sounds fucking awful. Every idea or concept created by Jar Jar was absolute shit. Trevorrow had nothing interesting to work with. He was just putting more shit on top of shit. Hux was somebody important militarily! Lame. Glad Episode 9 killed him off like the worthless spineless bitch he was. Epi IX should have been called Death of the Worthless Spineless Bitches. And everyone including in the original trilogy should have been sucked into the black hole of Jar Jar's ass.

[Quote] And everyone including in the original trilogy should have been sucked into the black hole of Jar Jar's ass.

Poor JarJar 😦

Everything Jar Jar touches turns to absolute shit. Now he will further ruin the immense turd that is the DC universe. Hah! Good.

[quote] What’s worse, [R1], is that Rey can’t attack Palpatine because it will turn her into a Sith. Except when she wants to attack him with help from Kylo-Ben.

In the end Palpatine wasn't killed by Rey. He was killed by his own hateful lightning energy that was thrown back at him. Like Karma (what you send out you get back threefold).

Overall I liked the movie. A nice space action flick. But then I don't have a close, emotional attachment to the franchise.